Keep Hustling: You Have Power Over Your Debt

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Keep Hustling: You Have Power Over Your Debt"

Host: Ken Coleman
Co-Host: Jade Warshaw
Episode Title: Keep Hustling: You Have Power Over Your Debt

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, host Ken Coleman and co-host Jade Warshaw engage with callers facing various financial challenges. The overarching theme revolves around gaining control over debt, making informed financial decisions, and maintaining healthy relationships amidst financial stress. The hosts offer practical advice, strategic budgeting tips, and motivational insights to empower listeners to take charge of their financial lives.

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Caller 1: Josh from Augusta, Maine – Selecting a Romantic Partner

Timestamp: [01:08] – [08:38]

Situation:
Josh, a 25-year-old successful entrepreneur who owns his home and a construction company earning approximately $130,000 annually, seeks advice on selecting a romantic partner who isn't interested in his financial status.

Discussion:
Josh is concerned about attracting partners who may be "gold diggers," solely interested in his wealth. Ken and Jade dissect his concerns, emphasizing the importance of discernment rather than avoiding relationships with individuals from less affluent backgrounds. They encourage Josh to evaluate potential partners based on mutual respect and shared values rather than solely financial status.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman [03:18]: "You're not in a place where you're worried about gold diggers unless you're hanging out in the trailer park."
• Jade Warshaw [05:30]: "There's nothing wrong with that. You opened up the call talking about this was a strange or weird problem. I don't think it's strange at all."

Conclusion:
The hosts advise Josh to seek relationships grounded in mutual respect and shared aspirations, rather than focusing solely on financial status. Building a personal resume and evaluating partners based on their own merits can lead to more fulfilling and genuine relationships.

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Caller 2: Sarah from Phoenix, Arizona – Managing Growing Expenses Post-Debt

Timestamp: [11:16] – [29:36]

Situation:
Sarah and her husband, both 40 years old with three children, have recently paid off $150,000 in student loans. However, they face escalating expenses due to children’s needs, inflation, and lifestyle creep. Sarah seeks guidance on balancing growth with financial intentionality.

Discussion:
Jade introduces the concept of transitioning from "intensity to intentionality," emphasizing the importance of maintaining budgeting habits and disciplined spending even as incomes grow. Ken adds practical steps by introducing his personal framework of three questions: "Could I do it, Should I do it, and Must I do it," to aid in making informed financial decisions.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [12:18]: "I think there's you... You're moving from intensity to intentionality."
• Ken Coleman [14:30]: "Three questions: Could I do it? Yes. Should I do it? Oh. Must I do it?"

Conclusion:
The hosts encourage Sarah to maintain a disciplined budgeting approach, reassess financial priorities regularly, and ensure that lifestyle increases are aligned with long-term financial goals. By adhering to structured financial principles, Sarah and her husband can sustainably manage their growing expenses while honoring their hard-earned financial progress.

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Caller 3: Sharon from Cleveland, Ohio – Overwhelming Debt and Considering Bankruptcy

Timestamp: [20:26] – [29:21]

Situation:
Sharon is burdened with $350,000 in debt, including a $153,000 mortgage, high car payments, $80,000 in student loans on deferment, $8,000 in credit cards, $18,000 in personal loans, and $10-12,000 in medical debt. She contemplates voluntary repossession or bankruptcy, feeling trapped without loan options.

Discussion:
Jade and Ken critically analyze Sharon’s debt structure, identifying the exorbitant car payments as primary stressors. They recommend exploring options to reduce or eliminate these high-interest debts and consider refinancing where possible. Ken emphasizes the importance of increasing income and minimizing unnecessary expenses to create breathing room for debt repayment.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [21:30]: "I want to know more about this car because I'm never going to tell you that bankruptcy is the way out of this."
• Ken Coleman [28:18]: "There's no superpower on this."

Conclusion:
The hosts advise Sharon to prioritize paying down high-interest debts, particularly the cars, and explore avenues to boost her income. They recommend consulting with a financial coach to develop a tailored debt repayment strategy, emphasizing that bankruptcy should be a last resort after all other options have been exhausted.

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Caller 4: Jeff from San Jose, California – Million-Dollar Debt as Dentists

Timestamp: [52:16] – [60:57]

Situation:
Jeff and his fiancé, both dentists in their first year of practice, are $1,000,000 in debt, primarily from student loans. They earn about $170,000 each annually before taxes and are considering merging practices to alleviate financial strain.

Discussion:
Ken and Jade suggest that Jeff and his fiancé seek mentorship from successful dentists to grow their practices more effectively. They stress the importance of managing business operations efficiently to increase income without further accruing debt. The hosts also caution against immediate expansion, advising focus on stabilizing and growing current revenues before taking on additional financial obligations.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [53:13]: "I think you need to be in touch with successful dentists."
• Ken Coleman [55:32]: "They don't teach you how to run a business. They teach you how to take care of teeth."

Conclusion:
The hosts recommend that Jeff and his fiancé engage with experienced mentors, focus on strategic business growth, and avoid accruing additional debt. By leveraging industry knowledge and effectively managing their practices, they can work towards reducing their debt and achieving financial stability.

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Caller 5: John from Houston, Texas – Struggling with Lease and Sudden Car Expenses

Timestamp: [42:29] – [61:08]

Situation:
John signed a lease for an apartment three months ago but has fallen behind on rent due to unexpected car brake issues, resulting in potential eviction. He contemplates breaking the lease or getting a roommate to manage finances.

Discussion:
Jade and Ken analyze John's financial situation, highlighting the immediate need to increase income and reduce expenses. They discuss the infeasibility of paying the termination fees for breaking the lease and advise John to consider selling his cars to eliminate high payments. The hosts emphasize the urgency of addressing financial distress by taking proactive measures to stabilize income and cut unnecessary costs.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman [46:14]: "You've got to work like an absolute madman."
• Jade Warshaw [48:31]: "You got to fight hard... to reduce your living expenses right now."

Conclusion:
The hosts urge John to swiftly find ways to increase his income, such as taking on additional jobs or selling assets, and to drastically reduce living expenses. They recommend seeking professional financial advice to navigate the eviction threat and stabilize his financial situation.

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Caller 6: Matthew from Austin, Texas – Marital Financial Concerns Involving Stepchildren

Timestamp: [77:18] – [82:30]

Situation:
Matthew is preparing to marry his partner and is concerned about how her involvement will affect the financial dynamics concerning his children from a previous relationship, including budgeting for their education and lifestyle choices.

Discussion:
Jade and Ken emphasize the importance of premarital counseling to address financial and familial concerns before marriage. They highlight the necessity of setting clear financial boundaries and expectations to ensure a harmonious blended family dynamic. The hosts advise open communication and structured financial planning to navigate the complexities of combining families and finances.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman [80:17]: "You need to invest time and money into premarital counseling."
• Jade Warshaw [81:49]: "You marry into the family, not just you."

Conclusion:
The hosts recommend that Matthew engage in premarital counseling to discuss and resolve financial and familial issues. By establishing clear financial roles and expectations, Matthew and his partner can foster a stable and cooperative financial environment for their blended family.

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Caller 7: Gabriel from Montana – Questions About Money-Making and Investment Apps

Timestamp: [73:54] – [77:07]

Situation:
Gabriel inquires about the legitimacy of money-making apps like Bingo Winner and Mr. Beast's new app, and seeks opinions on investment platforms such as Acorns and Robinhood.

Discussion:
Ken admits a lack of familiarity with the specific apps mentioned by Gabriel and leverages Jade’s insights to address the broader concerns. Jade criticizes gaming apps as unproductive and discourages time and money spent on them. Regarding investment platforms like Acorns and Robinhood, Jade emphasizes long-term investment strategies over short-term trading, aligning with Dave Ramsey’s philosophy of disciplined, long-term investing.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [74:46]: "If you have time to play games on your phone, something's wrong."
• Ken Coleman [75:45]: "You should not be spending your time on it."

Conclusion:
The hosts advise caution against spending time and money on gaming apps purported to make money, labeling them likely unproductive or scams. For investments, they recommend traditional, long-term strategies such as 401(k)s and Roth IRAs over platforms that encourage frequent trading, aligning with sustainable financial growth principles.

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Key Insights and Conclusions

1. Debt Prioritization: High-interest debts, especially from auto loans and credit cards, should be prioritized for repayment to alleviate financial stress quickly.

2. Income Augmentation: Increasing income through additional jobs, side gigs, or business growth is crucial for managing and eliminating debt.

3. Budget Discipline: Maintaining a strict budget and regularly reassessing financial priorities helps prevent lifestyle creep and ensures sustainable financial health.

4. Financial Counseling: Seeking professional financial advice can provide tailored strategies for complex debt situations and facilitate better financial decision-making.

5. Relationship and Finance: Open communication and counseling are essential when blending families or navigating financial dynamics within relationships to ensure mutual understanding and cooperation.

6. Investment Strategy: Adopting long-term, disciplined investment strategies is favored over short-term trading platforms to build sustainable wealth.

Notable Takeaway:
"You have power over your debt, and with the right strategies and disciplined approach, you can regain control and build a secure financial future." — Ken Coleman [Throughout Episode]

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This episode of The Ramsey Show underscores the importance of proactive financial management, disciplined budgeting, and strategic debt repayment. By addressing real-life financial dilemmas, Ken and Jade provide actionable advice aimed at empowering listeners to overcome debt and achieve financial stability.

Transcript

[Ken Coleman]

This is the Ramsey Show. America, thrilled to have you with us. This is where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. The phone number to jump in is 8888-255225-88825. 5225 is the phone number alongside the incomparable, the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I am Ken Coleman and we're here to coach you up today. So we got those money questions, we got some work related questions. Hey, I need some more income. I like helping people make mo money.

[Jade Warshaw]

Mo money.

[Ken Coleman]

Mo money. Mo money. And by the way, if you're at the Ramsey show and we help you make mo money, it doesn't come with mo problems.

[Jade Warshaw]

It better not.

[Ken Coleman]

Not here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, we have the good kind of mo money.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. So let's get right to it. Josh is going to start us off in Augusta, Maine. Josh, how can we help today?

[Caller]

So I've got a bit of a strange problem here.

[Ken Coleman]

Perfect.

[Jade Warshaw]

Jade loves strange problems.

[Caller]

Perfect. It might not sound so strange once I explain it. I'm 25 years old. I own my own home. I built a construction company. I make about 130,000 a year. And I've got a real proclivity for building my income, building my business, building my personal wealth over time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Great.

[Caller]

And one of the things I'm really struggling with and I'm looking for a non biased opinion because you know how friends are. They're great, but, you know, you can only get so much. I'm looking for any sort of advice on how to select a partner who's not remotely interested in my position in life. When you have a lot of.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you talking about business partner or romantic partner?

[Ken Coleman]

Romantic partner got you your position in life.

[Caller]

I mean, just at 25, I'm doing fairly well.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell us what that means. What's your net worth?

[Caller]

Net worth? Like, are you saying if I my business net worth or if I were to liquidate.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't have that much, my friend. You just can't answer that question. Listen, I appreciate where you're at, young man. You said you're 25 and you have a proclivity. Great word, by the way.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, wonderful vocabulary.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm a big fan of proclivity. Just used it twice there because I like the way it sounds to make a lot of money and all this kind of stuff. No, you know, we don't know that you're 25. I appreciate your confidence, but if the question is how do I make sure I find A girlfriend who's not into me for my position in life, I go, well, I don't know that I want to find a woman who's not interested in my position, because that position in life, the way I'm hearing that is you gotta provide position leads to provision. Jay, come on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, Ken, you're right. And so, I mean, yeah, you're right.

[Ken Coleman]

You're not in a place, my friend, where you're worried about gold diggers unless you're hanging out in the trailer park. Are you dating women that are in poverty situations?

[Caller]

I try not to, but they, they pop up.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, okay, so listen, this is good. Listen, don't listen. If a, if you are dating. I got to be very careful how I say this, but I'm going to answer the gold. Ken, I got you here to correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

Me, but maybe I gotta say it.

[Ken Coleman]

No, let me say it. Okay, If I'm trying to. I got it. I'm channeling Stacy right now to make sure my wife is right beside me. And I'm thinking, what would Stacy want me to say? Okay, because she's a good woman. If a woman who is in poverty pops up into your dating life, I don't have a problem with that. People deserve dignity. And there's lots of great women and lovely women and lovely men who come from poverty. So I'm not saying cancel it out. However, if a person from poverty pops up in your dating life, as you begin to date them, you should have some discernment there to go. Am I a ticket out?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Or. And so you just have to have some extra judgment and discernment there. I wouldn't cancel them out, but at the same time, I, I, I, I wouldn't necessarily be, you know, hanging out in those areas either. So I'm, I'm trying to walk the fence there.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think it's just, I just think.

[Ken Coleman]

This is a problem he doesn't need to be worried about.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't think it is a problem. I think it goes both ways. The same way you are. All that stuff matters to your point. Your station in life, your work ethic, what you're accomplishing. That's part of the resume. Yeah, you know, the, the, the personal resume. And so the same way that you have built a personal resume that people will learn about as they get to meet you, you will learn about their personal resume as you meet them and learn about them, and you get to decide who gets the position based off of their personal resume. And so there's nothing wrong with that. You opened up the call talking about this was a strange or weird problem. And I don't think it's strange at all. I think it's just part of everyday life when you meet somebody and you get to decide, okay, is this person going to be somebody that I'm going to be friends with, or is this person going to be somebody that I date long term?

[Ken Coleman]

Have you had a lady. You said that this has popped up a few times. So have you had someone that has come from extreme poverty, that has dated you and you felt like they were only dating you because you were a meal ticket out?

[Caller]

Yes, it's happened to me more than once.

[Ken Coleman]

How do you. How did you know? Tell us. Be very specific. How'd you know? When did you know that she was only after you for your money?

[Caller]

It happened a couple of months, about three months in. I noticed at first she was very big. On balance, as far as our personal time and psychological investments, you know, we're able to talk and work things and figure stuff out between us as people.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

But as time goes on, it turns more into what kind of life you can provide for me and my future children. And. And there's no reciprocation besides physical, which to me is, you know, it's got a value. But I'm not sure in the world.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm not gonna lie. I'm not sure I understand. And I want to understand.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. You're not being specific enough.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's part of it that I think it is part of the conversation. Maybe. Maybe, and I don't know. You were there. I was not there. Maybe she's saying, hey, here's what I'm looking for in life. Um, I. These are. These are what I consider. Consider gender roles. I would love to be in a relationship where maybe the guy works, maybe I stay at home with the kids. She could just be sharing that. That's something that she's looking for. Am I. Did I miss it, or.

[Ken Coleman]

I think she's right, Josh. Did she say, I want you to buy me this and buy me that. And, I mean, was it very obvious, or is this just a young lady talking about what life might look like?

[Caller]

In separate instances, it's been both.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you're worried about stuff you shouldn't be worried about. On that, let me. Let me put this way, Jade. When you and Sam got serious.

[Jade Warshaw]

You don't want to ask me this.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, I do. What were you thinking? Like, what were you. What were you wondering about? Sam?

[Jade Warshaw]

My exact words were, you gotta come correct. Those were my exact Words, meaning I have a high standard of work ethic and what we both do.

[Ken Coleman]

Did you ask him about his professional future and what he thought he was gonna do?

[Jade Warshaw]

I could see it. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

But my point is, you were interested.

[Jade Warshaw]

I was interested. I'm like, listen, I'm a go getter. You're a go getter. Like, we. Everything we do, we do 100%. Like, that was the standard. It's like, if you. If you're going to be around me, you got to come correct because I'm an intense person. And so that was that on that.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. So. So, all right, I'm putting Josh on hold here. I. I said what I said. What are you. What's your dating. I think he needs to be in better pools.

[Jade Warshaw]

He probably needs to be in better pools. I also think that, and I don't say this to be. There's no salt or shade on this. I do think that he's viewing himself in a light that's a little bit puffy.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, 100%.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so I think that if he just kind of chills a little bit.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Everybody's not after him. You're doing well, but you've not.

[Ken Coleman]

Like, you don't have a proclivity to build wealth yet you're 25.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Can I just say that? Yes. I mean, come on, man. So you're doing well, but chill out. Yeah. Relax. Yeah, relax. Use your discernment and get a good group of friends who can discern on the ladies for you. That always helps. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

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[Ken Coleman]

Triple 882-55-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside. The early Black Friday sale is here. I. What? What? I didn't even know there was such a thing as an early Black Friday.

[Jade Warshaw]

So what? Black Friday is the day after Thanksgiving.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[Jade Warshaw]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[Jade Warshaw]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[Caller]

Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet. What's going on?

[Caller]

So I am curious on your thoughts on once you've paid off your consumer debt. My husband and I are 40. We've been married 15 years. Paid off about $150,000 in student loans when we first got married. Wow. Now we've got three kids, and I'm just sort of looking at how our expenses keep growing every year. Combination of kids inflation and lifestyle creep. And just sort of curious on that balance of, you know, the intensity from where we started our marriage to the intentionality and how you balance that in a way that's honoring the hard work and being mindful of the future, if that makes sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think that's a great question. So would you consider yourself on baby step five, baby step six? What's the plan?

[Caller]

Where are you four, five, and six? We still have a balance on our mortgage.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And you're still putting aside for kids college. Yes.

[Caller]

And putting aside for kids college.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I think there's you. You Said all the right buzzwords, which is at this point, you're moving from intensity to intentionality. What? You're right. And the way that intentionality balances with the idea of I still want to enjoy my life, at what point does it become, quote, unquote, lifestyle creep? Because lifestyle creep kind of has this negative connotation that if I'm increasing my lifestyle too much, I'm putting myself kind of in a, in a, in a red zone or in a, in a place where I'm not being financially smart. Right. And so the way I like to think of it is, first off, the reason that we do the baby steps is so that, and you get to fill in the blank on what the. So that is so that I can live in a nicer house, so that I can travel more, so that I can go to more of my kids sports games, whatever the. So that is, chances are it does cost more. Because this is a whole money thing. Right. And so for me, where the barrier lies is as long as I'm doing all of the things that would, would cause me to be a financially responsible adult, it's okay for me to increase my income and therefore increase my lifestyle. Right. So for you, you're a baby steps walker. I kind of like to filter this through. Just a general kind of five pillars of personal finance. Am I a person who keeps and sticks to a budget monthly? Yes. Okay, great. Check that box. Am I a person who is out of debt and values never going into debt again? And I'm putting that, and have put that into practice? Yes. Am I a person who carries the proper insurances? I've checked all the boxes, I've done all the stuff. I check my coverage yearly. I carry what I need to. Okay, I do that. Check. Am I a person who has valued savings and investing for the future, whether that's emergency funds, whether I'm contributing the right amounts to my investing for the future? Right. Check that box. And am I a person who prioritizes generosity? If I'm doing those five things, I'm also working on my baby step. Yeah. Increase your lifestyle, knock yourself out, have a good time. That's what it's about. It's not about I have to limit myself like this all the time. All the time. Otherwise, what was the purpose? What was the point?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I, I, I agree. The only thing I would add to this, Sarah, is I, I think there's three questions that even now I'm constantly asking myself. Because we got, we've got three teens, one's in college. I got two drivers. I got a third one on the way. I mean, I feel like I'm running a garage service. I got so many cars at my house. And I think there's three simple little questions. And this is about intentionality, so maybe this will help. Here's three questions. I could do it. I should do it. I must do it. So it's like, could I do it? Question mark? Yes. Should I do it? Oh, I got. I got the MM on the other end of the phone. And then. And then, must I do it? So when I think about things, if it's in the must category, well, then we've got some values that are driving that decision, right? This is the important stuff. If I'm in the should I do this? Well, we still got values driving that question, but it's not apparent that it is fundamental. It's just, okay, do I do this? Like, I'll, you know, I'll tell you. I got one of those right now. It's a dry sauna. Outdoor dry sauna.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that's good.

[Ken Coleman]

Should I. I'm in the. Should I. Should I do this? And I'm doing my research, and I don't want to go down the rabbit trail and waste everything.

[Jade Warshaw]

Walk us through it. Walk us through it. I like this.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's. It's an expensive purchase. I mean, it's not a 500 purchase. That's an expensive purchase. So I'm looking at it going, should we, Stacy night? Should we do this? I've got. I got to get a car for Josie, who turned 16 in a couple of weeks. So we're doing the homework on that. And, you know, she's not going to be ready to drive right away, but she's going to be close. You start looking through other things. I got a college kid again. We're cash flowing, a lot of that. So I start walking through. Okay, that's a. That's a sizable purchase. So I'm going, should I do this? So I start to wait. It's got a lot of health benefits, and I've already gone down that. It's really good for Stacy and I and our health. You know, it has all of those positive benefits. We've got space for it. I got a space for an outdoor space. As you know, you've been over the house. And I go, okay, it's not going to cramp anything. It's a check. I got the cash for it. It's not going to hurt me.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you're still doing all the other things.

[Ken Coleman]

And I'M still doing all the things. So I'm in that place of going. I'm walking through that. Even at this stage where I've got the money, I'm not going to feel it, but I do feel it. I still go. That's a sizable purchase.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

And do we do it now? So then did Stacy and I change our Christmas plans for each other and go, this is what we're gonna do? I mean, all I'm saying is I'm using a super simple thing that I like to walk through. Could I do it? Yes. Should I do it? Well, we gotta wrestle with that. And then the must I do it? And I think maybe that'll help, Sarah, with staying in view of your values so that you know if your values are right, your money's gonna be right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And the truth is, your values change and get to change throughout this process. Something that's right would not have been important to you maybe three baby steps ago could become important to you now. And that's also. Okay. So just a little permission to.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's say you and Sam call us up and go, hey, let's go on this trip. I'm going right to. Should I. Oh, okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Because we have margin in our life.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

Could. The could is there, so. But there are times in life where it's going, hey, I. No. Could.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Private jet.

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can't do it.

[Ken Coleman]

No. No. Yeah. Could I? No. The answer is no. So, you know, Sarah, I hope that helps you. I. I think you need to give yourself permission. I thought Jay did a wonderful job of setting it up, but I hope those little questions. That just keeps you. I think you're worried about you're doing something dumb, and I just don't see that if you've got values aligned with how you spend your money.

[Caller]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Good, good, good. I mean, that's. That's. And we see this a lot. Jade, I want you to share with our audience that's on the front end of this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Of why we got that phone call there. Because there are a lot of people who are just in baby step one or they're in baby step two, and they're just like rice and beans. Beans and rice. It's gazelle. Well, now Sarah's on the other side of that and still dealing with some of that. I'm going to call it leftover intensity.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You put the rubber band on tight. When you're on baby step one, it's like, oh, my Gosh. It's like you're squeezing into a tight pair of jeans.

[Ken Coleman]

I like that. If you put a rubber band on your wrist, it'll leave mark. You got to let some time for that skin to heal.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

That's interesting.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's like, okay. Have you ever. This is a horror. I'm not going to use this analogy. I was going to say it's a horrible analogy. But you're like in the tight jeans. And then you get in baby step four. You know, when no one's looking, you can let the zipper down a little bit, and you can just listen.

[Ken Coleman]

I think every man in America identifies with being in the jeans. And you went to the buffet. One too many trips.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And you get underneath the table. No one's looking. You just. Just a little airy. Just a little out.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just a little. A little breathing room.

[Ken Coleman]

That top button, just so we go back and get a little more stuff and engraving a little bit more. You know what my theme is during Thanksgiving and Christmas, folks, this is bonus. Eat through the pain.

[Jade Warshaw]

You want to know what mine is? What if it's brown? It's going down.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is, folks. That's why you come to the Ramsay show. We'll be right back.

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[Ken Coleman]

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. And you have joined the conversation about you and your life here on the Ramsey Show. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. We're here to coach you up today. Sharon is up next in Cleveland, Ohio. Sharon, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call. So I'm in a bad situation that I can't really get out from under. I'm about 350,000 in debt mainly. I have really high car payments. I don't have the option to get a loan or anything. So I'm considering a voluntary repo or bankrupt fee.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. I want to make sure I heard you right. Did you say 350,000?

[Caller]

Yes. That does include a house.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, how much is. How much of that is the house?

[Caller]

The house is 153.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, here's the thing. I want to know more about this car because I'm. I'm. I'm never going to tell you that bankruptcy is the way out of this. And I'm never going to tell you that voluntary repossession is the way out of this. So let's. Let's get our head around the numbers and let's see if we can offer you some better, better solutions. I can't guarantee they won't be painful, but I think that they'll be better than what you're talking about. So tell us about the car.

[Caller]

So there's two cars. One was for my son, who obviously that didn't work out. So, first car payment is 992. I owe about 49, and it's only worth about 23. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

My car is 780. Wait, before you go on, you said you owe 49 and it's worth what now? 23.

[Caller]

23.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what happened that caused that steep depreciation? Is it a lot of miles? What's the year?

[Caller]

It's a 2023 Hyundai Santa Cruz. Interest rate is about 9%.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you've been paying minimum payments, have you? Let me. Where are you getting the value of it? Let me start there. Are you going on Kelley Blue Book, or did some dealer tell you this?

[Caller]

This was from Edmonds and some offers from, like the Carmack. They gave me around 23K.

[Jade Warshaw]

What would cause this to drop 50% in two years? Less than two years.

[Ken Coleman]

You said 2022.

[Caller]

The car is actually at 2023. I absolutely no idea.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so Edmonds is private seller. Is that what you looked up there, like Kelly Blue Book or Edmonds? Did you look at private sale? You selling it to somebody else?

[Caller]

I believe that value was private. Well, maybe not private sale.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it electric?

[Caller]

You have it listed, too.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it an electric vehicle?

[Ken Coleman]

How many miles you got?

[Caller]

It's not about 18,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Something's not right.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I just think your numbers are off. Here's what we want you to do so that Jade can keep coaching here. You need to go look Kelley Blue Book. Be as accurate as you can on it. And you're looking at private seller value. The number seems really low. And that. That matches up to what, a CarMax or another car dealership? They're going to give you way less for the car because they got to build some profit into it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you roll a lot of other negative equity into it when you got it?

[Caller]

I did have negative equity.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, now we got some.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much did you roll in? I'm just trying to understand. Do you remember?

[Caller]

Honestly, I don't know. I purchased these two cars the same day, and they did some fancy stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so tell me about car number two that your son has. And by the way, how old is your son?

[Caller]

He is 18. He no longer has possession of the car anymore. So who does? It's 782. My sister, who is helping with the payment.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. $782 car payment. What's the. What's the loan on it?

[Caller]

30K.

[Ken Coleman]

And what's it worth?

[Caller]

This one is it. Told me around 12k, but there's damage to it, so I wouldn't think it would be too much higher.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Is it the type of damage that. Is it running? Like, is it. Is it working?

[Caller]

It does run. It does work. There are a few mechanical things, but it's mostly just body damage. It was sideswiped.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. All right. But it's your name on it. Even though your sister is operating it and paying the loan, it's your name on it.

[Caller]

He's only paying a little bit towards it, but, yes, it is under money.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so. And tell me, you said before, like, there's no way I can get a loan. There's no way I can get out of this because I would rather you owe another lender 18,000 than owe 30,000. And I would rather you owe another lender 26,000 than owe 49,000. Do you see what I'm saying? So it's about.

[Caller]

Highly, highly. Understand, my credit has changed. There's been a series of unfortunate things that took place. So I don't actually have the ability to even get a loan at this point.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so then in that case, tell us about some of the other debts that you have, and then tell us about your income.

[Caller]

So the house is 150k. It's a duplex. Bought it for the sole purpose of having someone help me pay my mortgage. So I do have a tenant. I have 80,000 in student loans. They're on the deferment.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

It wasn't 80,000, obviously, when I graduated.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure, but they're not. Nothing's due on those right now. Right. You're paying almost zero. You should be okay.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

What else?

[Caller]

About 8,000 in credit cards, 18 in personal loans, another 10 to 12 in medical. I recently started working with a nonprofit debt management company, and they're handling that. But that's also a very high payment.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I wish you hadn't done that. Okay, so the credit cards, personal loans, medical debt. Is there anything else.

[Caller]

Now?

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so tell me about your working situation. Tell us about your income.

[Caller]

I make about 75 to 86 with bonuses at my job. I work more than full time.

[Jade Warshaw]

When you say 75 to 86, are you telling me 75 to 86 per year, or are you telling me 7,500 per month? 8,600 per month? Tell me. Give me your monthly. Okay, give me your monthlies.

[Caller]

Monthly. I'm at about. Do you want take homework or take home? Take. Home is 52, 56.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so here's what the. There's only a couple of ways to remedy this. The first is you get your income up. There's no. There's no other way around this. And then the second thing is, is time. Okay, so you getting your income up. I mean, you have a great income. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you're like, behind the curve or anything like that, but you've got a lot of debt here. And the whole thing with the car situation, I mean, I'm going to look for anything almost is better than what you've got yourself in now, Truly, anything to lower this number so that you can find some breathing room. Because paying 992 for one and 782 for another, any way that you can knock that down so you can find some breathing room and get further into this. I'm doing it. You know, I. I'm looking at whatever I can to get a loan for the difference on these cars to get out of them, especially the second one, because you're not even. You don't even need that car. Right. Your. Your son is almost grown now, basically, and he's not driving it anyway. So you got to get out of that. That 18,000. Find any way to get that, that you can come up with the. The duplex. What's it worth?

[Caller]

I think the last time I checked, it was like 205.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So there's not much there. Okay. Not much there.

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you're going to have to, Ken. I mean, there's no superpower on this.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I think. I know you've. You don't have time to tell us. We're running short on time. One of the things I want to do is I want to get our. I want to get our session with a financial coach because there's so much complexity here. So hang on the line, and I'm going to have Christian connect you there. But what you're going to have to do is you can't assume anything. You go, oh, this happened, this happened, this happened. I can't get a loan. I would be going to every credit union that you can locally. Go, here's my situation. I. I've got a good paying job. I've got to lower my expenses. And to Jade's point, you sell these cars and if you can consolidate that loan through them and get those payments lower, number one, that's a raise.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, but real talk, though, I mean, with her income, unless she's investing or doing something else after the car payments, I don't know what percentage her mortgage is, but her student loans aren't due at all. And so that's.

[Ken Coleman]

This is doable.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's still 30 $500 left. So if you're not on a budget, you got to get on one. Yeah, but when I look at the $10,000 in medical debt, which you should be settling, the 15,000 in personal loans and the 8,000 in credit cards, there is money here to pay these debts. There's something here that we don't know about.

[Ken Coleman]

Challenge yourself. What do you have to do right now to make an additional 30,000 a year that goes to this mess and you can get out of this? Hang on the line. We're going to get you a session with one of our coaches and that'll help you a little bit more. This is the Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by Better Help. This month is all about gratitude, and most of us have people in our lives that we're grateful for. One of those people, for me, is the wonderful Marilyn Fanon. She gave me a chance. She taught me poise and professionalism, and she challenged me. But there's one person that we often don't take time to think. Ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're barely surviving or that we're moving forward or that we're working towards a better life and better relationships. And in a world where everything seems to have gone bonkers, it's not always easy to be grateful. So here's my reminder to thank the people in your life, including you. And sometimes to do that, we need some professional help. We need to talk to someone trained to help us discover true gratitude for ourselves and others, especially in the holiday season. That's why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist at just about anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This season, let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp help. H E L p.com/Deloney welcome back to the Ramsey Show, America. Thrilled that you have joined us. I'm Ken Coleman and I'm alongside side my friend Jade Warshaw. So, so Good to have you. 888-255-225 is the phone number to jump in. But before we get back to the phones, we've got today's question of the day which is always brought to you by our friends at why Refi? Why Refi? Refinance is defaulted private student loans. Defaulted means when the borrower can't make the required payments. So if that describes you and your private student loan contact, why Refi. They can offer low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to why refi.com Ramsey today that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Today's question comes from Dylan in Montana. He says, I fully subscribe to Dave's philosophy on personal finance, but here's an issue I don't recall being addressed. What are Your thoughts on 0% financing for cars? Oh yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

We've never addressed that one in all the years.

[Jade Warshaw]

While that's not readily available now, my hope is that it will return at some point, perhaps with some manufacturers extending the term for 60 months. I realize this is debt, but it's cost free debt, right? Oh boy.

[Ken Coleman]

So handle that one, Jade, if you're.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, hey, let me just call out the, the obvious. If you fully subscribe to Dave's philosophy. Philosophy, then this would not even be on your radar. So there's holes in that, that argument. But anyway, yeah, at the end of the day we're talking about risk. That's really all this boils down to. Let's say the car that you want is $32,000 and you say, okay, I can get it on a typical term. I think right now the average loan term is 69 months, which is ridiculous to be paying six years for something.

[Caller]

Really?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. 69 months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. The, the stats right now are the average new car loan is $31 722 with a monthly payment of $545 on an average loan term of 69 months.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. This is where I need tums. Yeah, I need to just like open the bottle And Chuck a couple Tums right down, right down here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So this guy's the heartburn. This guy's like, well, what if I want the same car and I get 0% over the same term? Or, okay, a little bit less. So five years free money, Right, Free money. But I'm like, okay, think about all that can happen in five years. And so we're, again, it's really back to the risk situation of, okay, why carry debt a when you don't have to? And why carry debt? Because when life hits as it will, you're on the hook for that. So if something were to change with your lifestyle, you still have to make the payment. And so for me, even though you're not paying for something at a premium, in this case, apr, interest rate, you're still carrying debt around your head and around your neck that you don't need to have. And so for that reason, I'm out.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, speaking of crazy terms, I cannot believe what I have in front of me, folks. This is real. This is an actual article I'm holding in my hands.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now, what is it?

[Ken Coleman]

This is the dumbest person in America. I'm going to. That's the title. This is a headline from finance. Yahoo. Yahoo Finance. Apparently, this gentleman made $1,000 down payment to Joe the Car Plug. Sounds reputable to me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ken Coleman]

That's the dealer's name.

[Jade Warshaw]

Joe the Carp. Oh, wow.

[Ken Coleman]

Joe the Car Plug. Okay, you're beginning to see how this thing unravels quickly. And the deal he agreed to was Jade. And this is not a typo, I'm assured by Kelly, the producer. This is not a typo. $590 per month. Wait for it, folks. For 27 years. What? Which means he will ultimately pay $191,000 for a BMW 530i. Now, a brand new one, according to BMW's website, is it's got a MSRP of $58,000. And it gets worse, folks.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ken Coleman]

Not only is this moron agreed to pay $590 for 27 years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh my gosh.

[Ken Coleman]

The car already has 289,000 miles on it. Joe, our board op about fell out of his chair. It's not a typo. So we actually have real evidence of this. This is not just an article. We also have a tick tock apparently about this story. Let's roll this and then we'll react to it a little bit more. Yes, sir, Mr. David just sold his soul for this BMW 530. Mr. David, how much did you put down, Alvin?

[Jade Warshaw]

I went down.

[Ken Coleman]

Mr. Joseph hooked me up. How much is it a month?

[Jade Warshaw]

590.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. How many months break, Jordan?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, I am speechless.

[Ken Coleman]

We're celebrating this.

[Jade Warshaw]

I am. Without speech.

[Ken Coleman]

He's happy as he could possibly be about this decision. I mean, the facts are the facts. Oh, he's thrilled that he only put $1,000 down. Now, that BMW at 289,000 miles has a lifespan of about seven weeks.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think I.

[Ken Coleman]

Am I right?

[Jade Warshaw]

There's nothing about this that makes sense and there's nothing about this that. There's no logic here.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but he's as happy as he can be. Do you see a smile on his face? Joe the Car Plug did me a favor. They should arrest the guy who owns Joe the Car Plug. Isn't there some kind of laws against this?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You know, I can't resist because I'm an opportunity cost person, and so I can't, I can't resist running numbers on something like take it away. Because we look at this and go, oh, David, with interest, he's ultimately going to pay 191,000, which, that alone is shocking. Like, that's a, that's a lot of money. But that's not even the, like, that's, that doesn't even scratch the surface of the true opportunity cost here. So a 27. 27 years. I mean, we say it on the show all the time, the car payment is what keeps middle class broke, or the car payment truly is what keeps whoever wants a car payment broke. Right. So because you're locked in and when you, you, you lock yourself into a five, six year term, in this case, 27 years. That is a term of time that you're saying with this money, I will pay my car. No, I will not invest it. I will not do other things. And so that is the opportunity cost that we play here. So.

[Ken Coleman]

But this doesn't even. Can I just say, this doesn't even make sense because I'm in the used car game because I got three teenagers. I've bought, as you know, two cars in the last three years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Joe, you're a gearhead. I know for a fact that a BMW with 289,000 miles on it, it could be a 20, 23.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

The most you could probably charge for that is 15,000 at the most I'm making. That's if it's a 20, 23, if that's two or three years old, that car's not even worth 10 grand at that kind of mileage. Yeah. On BMWs. So I really think I was making a joke, but I think this is illegal. Well, like this is. How do you charge this man 590amonth for 27 years? This man is paying rent for Joe the car plug.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, that's what he's doing.

[Ken Coleman]

He's paying the man's lease.

[Jade Warshaw]

He's paying the man's lease. I have to believe.

[Ken Coleman]

And I don't know numbers don't add.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know how vetted this is because anything's possible on the Internet and so they might. Who knows? They might be real.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm starting to wonder if this is even.

[Jade Warshaw]

They did it for the gram. I. I believe that. But just know that if he had taken that same money and invested it over the same term, it's almost a million dollars. Literally almost. It's $970,000 that it really is costing him to operate this vehicle. If this in fact is.

[Ken Coleman]

This can't be real. The more I think about this, it can round it up to 600amonth. $7,200 a year. The car itself. This can't. I know this is real.

[Jade Warshaw]

A person could be that clueless.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm told that this is real. This is a real article. That. That cannot be real. Are you with me, studio audience? That's absurd. That is fraudulent.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

He's being defrauded. That's not a word, is it?

[Jade Warshaw]

He might.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that a word?

[Jade Warshaw]

He's being defrauded. But he also played a role in this because.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, yeah, I don't, I don't mind saying he's like nobody put.

[Jade Warshaw]

Nobody twisted his arm. It doesn't look like to get this man.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know what to do. This is a sign of the apocalypse. It's what this is.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

This is a sign of the apocalypse. This is a real news article from a reputable thing. And here's a tick tock with this guy with a smile on his face like he just won the lottery in the music.

[Jade Warshaw]

I got five on it. That was messed up.

[Ken Coleman]

I didn't even pick up on that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I was listening to the music. I was like this is a bothersome.

[Ken Coleman]

I, I just. The idea like I literally was just from the question of the day I was processing because I don't pay attention to this stuff anymore. I was having a hard time processing a 69 month term on a car.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wild. Yeah. That's what people are doing.

[Ken Coleman]

And that means rooms to go. Must have a 10 year plan now.

[Jade Warshaw]

But here's the thing. Delinquency They've always got something.

[Ken Coleman]

They're always the leaders, and, oh, yeah, no interest. For 99 years, I watched college football, and it's like, you can get a sofa today and finance it to the year 3000.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's like, what will I be here?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, gosh.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, God.

[Ken Coleman]

Rescue us, folks.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. We need help.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, more of your calls coming up. This is the Ramsey Show.

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you, America. This is where we coach you to win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships alongside my good friend, the incomparable, fabulous, fantastic Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman, and I've got my fall sweater on. That's what I got for you today.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is nice. Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I just saw it in the camera. I realized, oh, you know, it's kind of cool here in Middle Tennessee now. Sweater weather is what I like.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sweater weather.

[Ken Coleman]

John's going to get us started first in Houston, Texas. John, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hello. Thank you for taking my call. I got myself into a situation. I signed a lease for an apartment about three months ago, and I kind of think I bit off more than I could chew. Everything was going good at first, but unfortunately, the brakes went out to my car and I kind of fell behind on rent. And so I am contemplating whether I should break the lease and get a roommate to get my finances under control or, you know, what would be the next the best option?

[Ken Coleman]

All right, well, give Jade a picture of your finances. How much do you bring home and how much is this lease and what other debt do you have? Give us a bit of A picture.

[Caller]

Okay, so what I bring in every year. So this is gross.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell me monthly. Tell me monthly.

[Caller]

Yeah, 2000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so 43 a year. 2000amonth.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

And hold on, quick clarification is that take home.

[Caller]

2000 is take home.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, gotcha. All right, keep going.

[Caller]

Okay. And the lease is 899amonth. There's you know, various other charges like water, sewage, all that stuff. So it comes out to like 980 under grand. I've kind of looked at kind of like what the termination costs would be for this contract and they talked about a reletting fee which is 80% of the 899 and then 899 for the rest of the lease which comes out to like seven, eight grand.

[Jade Warshaw]

I. How are you getting that? I thought it was 8.99 for the, the lease plus the, the half of the lease. So like 450. Did I, what am I missing?

[Caller]

She said 80, 85% of the is the rouletting fee. And then the rest of the remainder when I calculated it came out to eight grand. Because this is what I think a 12 month lease.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, for the entire thing. I got you. I got you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So yeah, that's not an option because you don't have that money.

[Caller]

Definitely.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so yeah, so this is a symptom of a much, much larger problem. My first question when you first started talking was I wanted to know how far behind, how many months behind are you?

[Caller]

Well, that's the thing. It's just only. Actually it's only like two or three weeks, but.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

This happened in October when the brakes went out. I was late. They say on the contract you can't be late. I talked to him, let them know about my situation. They said, okay, we'll take that payment late. And I said November is going to be late as well. Now you know, this has messed up my paycheck to paycheck. So they said we'll take November's as well. But now they're saying okay, December 1st, you have to be on time. If you're not. Yeah, we're gonna go ahead and file for an eviction.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you, what do you do for a job?

[Caller]

I actually work in mental health, unfortunately. Doesn't pay a whole lot.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do in mental health?

[Caller]

I work with people who have chemical dependency issues.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And so are you an hourly wage?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

What is your hourly wage?

[Caller]

Well, right now it's about 20, $20.70 an hour.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm jumping in very quickly. Because Jade can help you and walk you through this, but you have an income problem. In addition to the fact that we know you've signed it. You know, you've already admitted it. You signed up for a lease you couldn't afford. But you can dig out of this and Jade will walk you through the rest of it, debt, whatever. But I'm going to tell you that right now, you can happen to this problem. And right now you're a good man who loves taking care of people, and you're just not making a whole lot of money. But you got yourself way over your head. And so until you get yourself out of this, you're going to have to work like an absolute madman. And you're an able body. So that may mean swallowing your pride and working the graveyard shift at Walmart, stocking shelves, getting 20 an hour somewhere else. You have got to bring in some income to get current and get yourself some breathing room here. But this is going to be hard for a little while. I'll hand you to Jade on that. But I wanted at least make the point that you can work and you should be working, and I mean every second of the day at this point to get yourself out of this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, John, how long have you been working? How long have you been in the career that you're in right now?

[Caller]

I actually entered it earlier this year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Earlier this year. And before you entered this career, were you doing something that earned you more money or less money?

[Caller]

No, I made a little far less. And actually the last four years, I was actually in training.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. My internship, where I'm struggling with this is, I think that, you know, how old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 30. I'm 30.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I think that, you know that $2,000 a month, you can. It's impossible, right? I think that, you know that. And what, what kind of shook me on this is you're like, okay, back in October, my brakes went out. I'm. I'm struggling with. Man, if that happens, then it's like, okay, I gotta go tonight. Like, I got to get to Wendy's tonight and get a job. I got to go over to Dollar General tonight. And, like, there's this urgency that I feel like is missing. And then when I'm like, well, how long have you been doing this job? Then I realize, oh, this urgency has been missing for a while. And then when you told me that you're earning less before that there's something missing here and you've got to have a. When House is on Fire, you don't Just lollygag around and be like, oh, you know what? I think I left a pair of socks upstairs. You know what? I think I need to go over here and get these, these keys off this drip you run. You move with a sense of urgency to get to safety. And I think that you gotta start moving with that sense of urgency because this house has been on fire for a little minute now.

[Ken Coleman]

One quick question on that urgency issue, Jade. Is this a two bedroom apartment?

[Caller]

No, this is just a one bedroom, man.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, that one. I was gonna try to get you a roommate real quick, but. Yeah, that's not an option.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I think right now we gotta go to work today.

[Ken Coleman]

That's it. I mean, you're literally selling stuff. Anything you own right now. Income, everything. Income.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're selling your bed, you're selling everything that you have that's. There's a value on it. You're selling your bed, you're getting a couple hundred bucks and you're buying an air mattress for 30 bucks at Walmart and taking the rest and putting it towards this. Because you got to hit this December 1st deadline to kind of get everything right side up again for you. And don't let that trick you into thinking, okay, I'm okay now, now I'm safe. No, that was just you getting from upstairs to downstairs. The house is still on fire. So that, I mean, that's what you've got to do. $2,000 is not going to make it work. And I understand if you love your career, but then you got to be proactive about adding additional income to it every single month and a lot of it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I mean, for advice for other people that may be in John's shoes here, if you, if you want to get into the mental health space, and we'll see what a ladder looks like for him going forward. But at that point, Jay, this is why we teach percentages of your income that go to housing to give you this kind of. To give you this safety net from getting, you know, overextended because he should have been renting a little place over some old lady's garage.

[Jade Warshaw]

Facts. 500, 400.

[Ken Coleman]

I was thinking 400. Yeah. You know, because that gets him at about 25%. Or, and, and you know, no one wants to hear that, but what's the alternative? You go out and get an apartment going? Well, I got a job. I'm doing the thing I want to do. I'm an adult now. And then you go, oh, I actually can't afford it. If anything bad happens in my life. Oh, like the brakes going out. I mean, this is bad.

[Jade Warshaw]

This Michael Jackson.

[Ken Coleman]

So, man, tough stuff. Oh, folks, listen to what we teach. Keeps you from doing this stuff. This is the Ramsey show. We'll be right back.

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, America. So glad you're with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside triple 882-55-2225 is the phone number 885-5225. We go next to San Jose, California. Jeff is there. Jeff, how could we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Yeah, me and my fiance, we're, we're about a million dollars in debt right now and we kind of most of it student loan debt, but we still have a million dollars we just don't know how to really tackle.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh my goodness.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is this, what type of degrees did you guys have?

[Caller]

Yeah, we're, we're both dentists. So I guess that's a good thing. Kind of.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I can tell you're fired up by that. Bless your heart.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you making money? Like what are you guys making every year?

[Ken Coleman]

So I, what we're told when we go into this is we'll be able to pay it off. Don't worry.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Caller]

We make about.

[Ken Coleman]

Probably average 170 a year. That's what you guys are actually paying yourself?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Advertisement]

In our.

[Ken Coleman]

Before taxes, before tax, 170 gross. And are you separate practices?

[Caller]

We are currently, but we are probably going to group in together and just try to grow, I guess.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you say 170 each or combined? Okay, okay.

[Ken Coleman]

170 gross each. That's not bad.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you're living in. Okay, well, San Jose is expensive. That's an expensive part of the country.

[Ken Coleman]

What is your debt? Break it down for Jay. Let's go. You first. You're the one on the phone and you're not married yet. So what's your debt about?

[Caller]

Let's see. 450,000 right now in all student loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And no other debt, luckily.

[Caller]

We're both pretty good on that side.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Pretty good or good?

[Caller]

Good.

[Ken Coleman]

How long. How long have you been. How long have you been practicing? About a year now. We just kind of.

[Caller]

We just came out of school. It's just kind of a nervous thing to be a million dollars in debt. Just.

[Ken Coleman]

And how soon? No, no, listen, brother, this is real. And I. Oh, this makes me so mad on your behalf. Not mad at you, but people are just selling this. And now you're facing it. It's like staring down the barrel of a gun right now. I can feel it all over you. And. Well, here's the thing I'm asking about. You're only a year into this. Based on. I don't know if they teach you any business skills. Probably not, but unfortunately they don't. They don't. Any sense of how big your practice is in its first year? Are you small for first year? Are you medium sized? You have any sense of that?

[Caller]

I would say we're probably small, getting to medium, hopefully by the end of this. By the end of this bill.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you know any dentists at all that are very successful? Huh?

[Caller]

Yes, I do.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you in contact with them on a regular basis to go, how did you grow your business? No, you need to be.

[Caller]

I'm not.

[Ken Coleman]

You need to be. I'm not kidding you. Jay's going to give you some financial advice. But I was leading you this because let me tell you something. They don't teach you how to run a business. They teach you how to take care of teeth. But taking care of teeth is not enough to be a successful dentist. You have got to know how to get people in the chair.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's right.

[Ken Coleman]

And I want you on the phone. I'm gonna give you as a gift of mine, Christian, at the end of this call, I wanna give him the proximity principle. It's worth a quick Read. You can get the audiobook if you want that. We'll give you whatever version you want. But I want you to be in touch with successful dentists, and I mean successful. And I want you telling them I need your best advice. What would you say to me, where I'm at right now about growing my business, and try to replicate this with two or three other successful dentists? Get all that feedback in one bucket and start doing it. Because the quicker you grow this business, the more you can pay yourself. And the more you pay yourself, the easier it is to do what Jade's going to tell you. I just wanted to give you that. You've got to be like. And she's got to be the same way. If you guys combine practices, this can't be like, we were married, and we have to know you both are like. Like, you're the most. I don't want to say desperate dentist we've ever seen, but it's like, you got to get creative in the community and be competitive so that everybody's coming to you to get their teeth cleaned.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, can I ask a question? And this is both to Ken and you, Jeff. So you. You come out of dental school, you've got all the goods to be able to practice. Are you working for someone else or you started your own thing?

[Caller]

I'm working for someone else, but we're.

[Ken Coleman]

Working on a contract to hopefully partner ideally.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is that going to cause you to have to go into more debt? Because that's what I'm trying to get a sense of what your next plan is. Because I don't want you to go.

[Ken Coleman]

Into more debt, and that's why we're trying to hold off more debt.

[Caller]

No, you can't. You got this.

[Ken Coleman]

No, you got to do your own practice, man. I thought that's what we were talking about. You can't go into debt. It's not worth it.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, like, you got.

[Ken Coleman]

You got.

[Jade Warshaw]

You got to work for someone else until you can afford to do whatever the next step is.

[Ken Coleman]

Is your income fixed, though? After all that big speech I gave? Is your income fixed? Are you able to go recruit new patients and get some of that?

[Caller]

No, not fixed.

[Ken Coleman]

So you can. So you can benefit from hustling like I told you to do? Yes. All right, that's good news.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's all I was trying to get at. And I don't want you to go into any more debt until this is cleaned up, because, again, you're. What you're realizing now is true, yes, you have agency over this, but there's no guarantees, and there's no guarantees at how quickly this will go. And so going into further debt. I would not advise that looking at the numbers. The hard part for me is you are in an expensive area. What are you paying? Like, what's the. What's the housing situation? Are you renting? Do you own a place? What is it?

[Caller]

We're going to. We're going to be owners.

[Ken Coleman]

Because it doesn't.

[Caller]

It almost doesn't make sense to rent because then we're just throwing that.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's not from the math. What are you doing right now? What's the situation now?

[Caller]

About 2500amonth for your place or are.

[Jade Warshaw]

You guys together already?

[Ken Coleman]

Together you're already.

[Caller]

It'll be 4,500. Yep.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

To rent, but to buy, it's the same.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. But you're going into debt to get it. You're adding more debt to your name.

[Caller]

We will be, yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you're tied to that. Like you. You gotta pay it. And now you're adding expenses to your life as well. You can't afford to do that. You need to be living as cheaply as possible. And if it's the same price per month, it's not really the same price because your complex or whatever is paying for yard and garbage and all those things. So I don't want to add weight to you of having to replace an AC or having to replace a roof or having to do what I'm saying.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So that's. Or adding insurance. You know, all that stuff is really expensive. And so I would continue to rent. You're not throwing money down the drain. You are buying yourself time until you can truly afford to buy. So please promise me. Your homework. Coming off this call is to promise me that you won't go into debt into this practice right now and that you will not buy a home right now because that would add insult to injury.

[Ken Coleman]

And I'm going to throw in here, I'm going to challenge you to get a much, much better rent situation. Just try. Find a place over an old lady's garage. I say that all the time, but I'm telling you, I don't think you should. Guys should be paying anywhere near 4,500amonth. Not now. You guys are so broken. Yeah, you need to be. You almost need to be staying in a place where they're paying you.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're gonna have to fight, Jeff. You're gonna have to fight hard. Because the truth is, you guys have got these shiny degrees. You're in a Great profession where there's the potential to make a lot of money. And the people around you, probably the people that you're working with, they're coming in with their Tahoes and their Cadillacs and their Teslas and they get expensive salads and juices for lunch. You don't do that. You eat Lean Cuisine and you drive a Ford Taurus.

[Ken Coleman]

And I would prescribe a lot of fasting for this couple. It's the new craze. It's a biblical principle, and I think it's got some financial advantages here. Y'all need to try fasting three days at a time. You're gonna look great, but you can't even afford to buy cold cuts. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Carl Budding, do you remember? I don't know. Listen, Jeff, I don't know if you remember when I was coming up.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

The cheapest cold cuts you could buy.

[Ken Coleman]

We're older than these youngsters. Okay, but in all seriousness, Jeff, listen, you have got to reduce your living expenses right now. That's one of the biggest raises that you could give yourself. So I'd be. As soon as this rental term is up or whatever's going on, I would be looking to slash those costs. I mean, big time.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

If. Even if I got a driveways at this point, I'd rather pay gas. You know, y'all ride together. It's called public transportation. Everything's on the table now, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Everything. You get you a bus pass. It's on and popping. It's the truth, man.

[Ken Coleman]

It's like. And by the way, you're brown bagging it and you're recycling the bag.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what I mean? That thing's gonna be all cold.

[Jade Warshaw]

You rinse out the Ziploc bag and you gotta dry it out and use it again.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, like y'all put the. Whoa. And broke. I mean, yikes. This is the Ramsay Show. Hey, guys, George Camel here for Deleteme. I saw a headline the other day that made me squirm. One third of the US population's background info is now public. We're talking 115 million Americans. Personal info out there in cyberspace for data brokers to buy, sell, and trade like Pokemon cards. And data theft happens all the time. Data brokers get your info, like your name, address, phone number, even your kids names. And then, boom. It's available to online bad guys. But to that, Deleteme says, not so fast. That's because Deleteme finds and removes your personal info from hundreds of these data broker sites, and they send you an easy to read report showing you exactly what they did and how much time they've saved you. What I love Most is that DeleteMe reduces the risk for scams for me and my family, not to mention that we get fewer creepy ads and robocalls. So it's time to take control of your online privacy. Their individual delete me plans start as low as 9 bucks a month and you can get 20% off if you go to joindelete me.com Ramsay that's joindelete me.com Ramsay Listen, the housing market is crazy and if you've been on the Internet, here's the sentiment. Affording a home is impossible and you're doomed to be a renter for the rest of your life, Right? Wrong. George Camel here. Listen, finding a home you love within your budget is possible and I'm excited to help you get there with our brand new course, how to buy a home you can actually afford. From saving a down payment that fits your budget to making a offer that sellers can't resist will cover it all. So if you're ready to seal the deal on the right home for you, take the [e-mail] course. That's Ramsaysolutions.com course. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Colma. Jade Warshaw is alongside. You know, we were talking during the break today about some of the calls we've had so far on the show today. And we keep coming back to the same thing. People get into tough financial situations largely because they have no budget at all. And because they have no budget at all, they have no idea when they make a decision for too much rent, no idea what the real impact is. So the best way to make the most of your money is by creating ticket to a budget. Every dollar makes it simple to plan spending, track expenses, save for what matters most to you. And can I just say, keeps you out of traps.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Because you know what you actually have coming in.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

And what's going out. And you're not susceptible to shiny things or things that are going to hurt you. Keep your pulse on your spending by downloading every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play or you can click the link in our show notes if you are listening on YouTube or our podcast. All right, John is up next in Dallas, Texas. John, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet.

[Caller]

So kind of in a situation right now, job searching, setting up interviews. But we're getting towards the end of the Year. Right. And I work in an industry where I guess bonuses are pretty much guaranteed at the end of the year, even though I don't bank on them. At the end of the year, I'm setting up these interviews I'm due up for end of year review at my current job. I'm pretty. I've taken the should I put my job? Quiz and it's actually, you know, told me I'm in a wrong role, wrong place. Okay. Those were the results. Good.

[Ken Coleman]

So the answer is yes, you should quit your job when your results are wrong role, wrong place, unless you raise your hand and your leader or other leaders go. We see that and we'd like to get you the right role. But when you get the wrong place, that still may not change it. So let's just keep going with the question. So what is your question on this?

[Caller]

Well, I mean, what's the bonus? I guess is, you know, I'm expecting usually, you know, five to $10,000 at the end of the year is what I'm due up for in. I don't know when I'm going to get a job offer. I'm pretty confident in these interviews that I've got coming up here in the next week that I'll have an offer in my hands before the bonus is due and probably before my end of year review. I'm just wondering how to navigate the situation where I feel that I'm owed this bonus, that I've, you know.

[Ken Coleman]

What. And what makes you feel that sense of I am owed this bonus? What makes you feel that.

[Caller]

Well, I just feel.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, this is not a difficult question. I know what the answer is. I want you to say it, though.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Why do you feel that you're owed this bonus at the end of this year?

[Caller]

It just feels like I'm leaving money on the table.

[Ken Coleman]

No, that's not the right answer. Let me ask you a couple questions. Are you doing a good job for these folks at my current job? Yeah.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Are you giving it your best even though, you know it's not where you're supposed to be long term, are you giving it your best?

[Caller]

Yep. Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so let me re. Ask the question. Why do you feel like you deserve your bonus?

[Caller]

Yeah. Because I work hard for it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. All right. Ding, ding, ding. All right, Jay, tell him what? He's won some confidence.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. So, John, I led you into that because let me just tell you, I know what the question is, so I'm going to jump ahead. Okay. First of all, I appreciate that. You believe that you're going to have an offer before your year end review and bonus. But the reality is you don't know that. I don't know that and Jay doesn't know that either. So I would keep walking forward. You are not doing anything unethical by searching for other jobs. Nothing dastardly and dark and unethical. Nefarious. Great word. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing now. Now let's just say that you do get an offer before your year end meeting and your bonus and they say they want you to start first of the year. What are you going to do?

[Caller]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you do. What are you going to do? Do you do? You just do. Do you deserve that bonus for the work you've done this year?

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

So John, what are you going to do if the start date is after the first of the year? What are you going to do?

[Caller]

Going to get my bonus?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, but because here's the deal. Here's the deal. First of all, this isn't the normal question that we get. This is not for Jade and I to tell you what you should do. I'm trying to walk you into a situation where you are thinking clearly because you've got two strangers who. We don't have any dog in this fight. But if in fact the bonus is based on the work you've done for this organization, get your money, then get your bonus. If you don't feel comfortable with that, then walk before the annual's up. I don't think there's a right or wrong here because the bonus is based on the work you've done for them to this point, if I'm understanding this correctly. Jay, do you have any kind of head tilt on that?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, not at all.

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So.

[Ken Coleman]

So, you know, I just don't. I don't think that you're as certain as you think you are.

[Caller]

I think where my concern comes from is what people think of if I do leave after the fact. And then, you know, I mean, I like the people I work with and the industry I'm in, like, you know, connections and like, you know, I just think right now with, with that change, like, I don't want, I don't want people to be like, oh, that John guy, you know?

[Ken Coleman]

Right. And I appreciate that. But John is accepting a bonus and then leave a bonus for work you've done and then leaving. Is that unethical?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, it's just called planning.

[Ken Coleman]

Is it just planning? One more question, John. Is it illegal no. All right, then I don't give a crap what anybody thinks about me taking the money that I've earned. You can think all the things you want to, and I'm going to tell them to go pound sand, kick rocks. Kick rocks. Listen, they. Here's the other thing. You're a good guy, John, but this is about. This is about some manufactured guilt that you've got put up in your head because you're a good person. And I don't think that if this scenario plays out this way, you get to choose. You get to choose because the bonus is not a signing bonus. The bonuses on work that you've done this year, and you're not stealing any money from the company. So there may be people who take issue with Jay and I on that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't think anybody would even think that you. John.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, first of all, they got too many other. Other things going on with their life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You're leaving for a better opportunity. They don't like you because of that. Guess what? Those aren't people I want to do life with.

[Jade Warshaw]

Also true.

[Ken Coleman]

I can tell you this right now. This is a true story. If me or Jade leaves Ramsey Solutions, I can promise you that me and Jade will be friends with each other after this place. Because I'm for her, she's for me. We're friends outside of this place. Our spouse, like.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I'd have no thought of. I wonder if he tried to stay longer to get a bonus.

[Ken Coleman]

I would be like, if Jay came in and said, I get this great opportunity and I'm going, I'd go. Two things I would. Two things I would go, I'm going to miss you around here. And then I'd go, go, girl. That's the absolute truth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm only bringing that up to say that's who, you know, are your actual work friends. People that would badmouth you because you took a good opportunity for you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. That's not a friend.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that doesn't even make sense to me.

[Jade Warshaw]

I agree. Yeah, 100%. I think you're overthinking this greatly.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So, John, this may not even be a problem. You know what I hope happens? I hope that these interviews go well and you get a job offer late in the year and they pick the start date and it's not till mid or late January.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ding, ding.

[Ken Coleman]

And you cash the bonus and everybody's right with the world. And then the people that like you and value, they're going to go. Way to go, John. Good for you, pal. Are we still getting together for pickleball on Wednesday night? You know, or whatever. I think that's the play here. So. You're a good man. I walked you through that. Because when there's guilt, Jade, we've got to go. Why is there guilt? And there should only be guilt when it's unethical or illegal.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Or mean spirited.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. None of that was there.

[Ken Coleman]

Jerk move.

[Jade Warshaw]

None of that was there.

[Advertisement]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So, John, you're a good man as ever by how you handled that. So I hope you get a fat bonus. I hope it's not a jelly of the month club like Clark Griswold got fun. Although cousin Eddie said it was the gift that keeps on giving. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, if you're like me, this time of year feels bananas. Thanksgiving just flies by and then you blink and the kids are out of school, family's in town, and somehow there's glitter everywhere. Pure chaos. Let's face it, the last thing you need right now is money stress. If you want to lighten your mental load this year, do yourself a favor and go download everydollar. It's my favorite budgeting app. And it can help you create a game plan for your spending so you can focus on what really matters this time of year. Listen, the holiday season is going to be busy. There's no getting around that. But let's be busy enjoying our families instead of stressing out about money. Head over to the App store and download EveryDollar right now to get started for free. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined in studio with, or by Rather Jade Warshaw, triple 8825-522258-88255-2225. All right, let's see. We've got our Ramsey network app question, and this is from Gabriel. He asks, can you really win money with apps like bingo winner and Mr. Beast's new app? Or is it a scam? Also, I was wondering if acorns and Robin Hood.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm sorry. Are good investment options. I'm 50 years old. I don't know what Bingo Winner is, and I barely know who Mr. Beast is. So I'm unqualified to even answer this question because I don't even know what that means.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm going to.

[Ken Coleman]

Can you win money with their apps? I don't have the foggiest idea. Anybody in there? Anybody? The last Kelly, do you know what they're talking? I have no idea.

[Jade Warshaw]

The last game I played was Words with Friends and There was no, like, option to win money. So I'm guessing it's one of these apps. Yeah, like a Candy Crunch.

[Ken Coleman]

The only app that I play in is a fantasy football and that has nothing to do with any of this. That's just me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can I give a, can I give a hot take?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, please bail me out because I don't know how to answer this question.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, this is good. This is controversial and I own that.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh boy. I am here for this.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna get you for this. I feel like if you have time to play games on your phone, something's wrong. Like, who has, like if you're out working and crushing it and taking care of your family, you don't have time to play games on your phone.

[Ken Coleman]

I have zero problem with this. This is not controversial to me.

[Jade Warshaw]

And, and to put money into it.

[Ken Coleman]

I have no game apps on my phone. So I, I, I feel like I'm in Jade's good, good stead right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I'm like, I just, I can't understand that. I can't, what, watch a show, like watch a show with your spouse or, or read a book, but have a conversation. But to spend money on a game inside your phone, that's called bingo winner.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't know if it's a scam, but you should not be spending your time on it. There's no ROI on your time and I'll bet there's not much ROI on the money.

[Jade Warshaw]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

And then I was wondering if Acorns and Robinhood are good investment options. Robinhood is an investment platform.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

We are very clear at Ramsey Solutions what our investment strategy is. I'll hand it to my colleague to give a very quick. Give a 60 second investment strategy. That would be our answer to any of this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I don't like these apps because they really, they enforce, they're, they're really more about trading. And the idea of I'm putting a little bit here, but I can move it at any time. And that's not our strategy. We are long term investors. We are people who dollar cost average. We are people who set it and forget it and keep it there for a long period of time. And so that's why I don't like these apps because they don't promote that. So I would Invest with my 401k through my job or I'd be a part of a brokerage and have my Roth ira.

[Ken Coleman]

I gotta confess, I just put the old readers on the graphic.

[Jade Warshaw]

Look at the graphic on that thing.

[Ken Coleman]

I just typed in bingo. Bingo winner app. And boy, talk about getting me in trouble.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Anything that looks like that is designed to suck the brain right out of your head.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's. Yeah, it is.

[Ken Coleman]

That's my ruling on that.

[Jade Warshaw]

It looks like it's designed to keep you addicted, whatever it is.

[Ken Coleman]

So let me tell you what I know. Successful millionaires aren't spending a lot of time on bingo Win.

[Jade Warshaw]

There you go.

[Ken Coleman]

So now I've got a ruling. Okay. Now we can move on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Move on.

[Ken Coleman]

Goodness.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. That was something, wasn't it?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm never getting that time back. Neither are you. Matthew is up in Austin, Texas. Matthew, how can we help?

[Caller]

How y'all doing?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, we're better now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. We're glad you're here.

[Ken Coleman]

We're thrilled about your question. What is it?

[Caller]

You sound like you always got it together, son. Just need your help. Thinking I'm supposed to get married here in a couple weeks.

[Ken Coleman]

Congrats.

[Caller]

Thanks there. But yikes. Kind of. And it has mainly to do with kids. I've got kids. And how my new wife interacts. I guess the question being how much does my new wife have, say so into how I raise my kids, spend money on my kids and that type of thing? Because it's really. I'm really kind of struggling with it.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, real quick question, because I. My colleague is loaded up, ready to go. I want to know this. How long have you two been dating?

[Caller]

Two years.

[Ken Coleman]

Two years. And in the two years, has there been moments of tension based on her maybe stepping into some situations that the kids weren't really cool with or you weren't cool with, or there have been some comments. I'm just giving you. What I mean when I say moments is, have there been several moments of tension that lead to this concern?

[Caller]

There's enough.

[Ken Coleman]

I knew the answer. Yeah. My friend.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I would just say this. I. This needs to be settled in. Premarital counseling stat.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old are the kids immediately?

[Caller]

They're not young. And so I got two in college. I have one that's a teenager.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the two in college, that's a non factor. She doesn't get to say anything about that.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how old's the teenager?

[Caller]

She's 16. But for example, like, when the subject comes up and I don't like saying this, and I know it's probably wrong, but I say I'm a. I'm a dad first. If you make me choose. Is that a wrong thing to say?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Because you're. You're treating it like she's expendable. And technically. Now, I know this is different, and I am going to step lightly on this, but typically, when you get married, it's the marriage first.

[Ken Coleman]

That's why I said what I said.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then it's the kids. Now, also, traditionally, the. The person you're married to is the person you've had children with. So it's easier to make that statement. And I want to. I want to hang out there. It is easier to make that statement when that's the case in your case. I don't think it makes it any less true, but I think it makes it more difficult to stand on that.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. I agree. I'm going to default to. You called us because you've got some real fear. And I'm glad you called us, if for no other reason than I'm telling you as a guy who went through premarital counseling, and I've been married 26 years, long enough to know that had Stacy and I not been on the same page about the major things, I don't know that we're here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Same. Same.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you know? And so I'm just saying that, Matthew, you need to invest time and money into premarital counseling to sit with a professional therapist and get this stuff out on the table. Like, you've got to say, she has created this tension here. I feel like she stepped over here. She needs to be able to say, I didn't like it when you said, I'm a dad first. Like, we got to get this all out before we lock in.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then there's the kids side of this, too.

[Ken Coleman]

There is the kids side of it, but they got to solve it between the two of them first. You got to know what life is going to look like day one. Now we manage those decisions after that.

[Caller]

She's nice to my kids. That's not it. But we're kind of different when things come up. Like, well, I go. She's like, well, if they're 22, they're going to be on their own. Like, well, yeah, but. I sure hope so. But what if something happens and they need to move back in? You know, that kind of thing again? Those. Those things come up. Or do you. Are you. Are you going to pay for their master's degrees, too, instead of us going to Hawaii for vacation? Those. It sound like, Wait a minute.

[Jade Warshaw]

So, yeah, she's got to realize that there's a whole life here and there's other people. She's Marrying. She's marrying the. Into the family, not just you. And that's the case with anybody you marry into the family. You marry into the situation, whatever it is. So I think that you guys. Ken is right. There's a lot that must be discussed before this happens.

[Ken Coleman]

And Matthew, look, I got two weeks. Oh, wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what? Is this a big. Is this a big fancy wedding when we got a lot of people coming and a lot of money being spent?

[Caller]

No, but I can't. I can't move it. It's not moving.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you know what?

[Ken Coleman]

I appreciate Matthew. He's going. Listen, Ken, I know where you're going, pal. I don't want to walk down that path.

[Jade Warshaw]

I would.

[Ken Coleman]

I would. I press pause.

[Jade Warshaw]

I would. Because what I don't want. I would never want you to feel like you don't have a choice or like once the wheels are in motion, you can't, you know, put a wood stick in it and grind it to a hole. You can. You have choices still. You have a lot less choices once you say, I do.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. I. I'd get a session in at least and talk about these majors. I really would, before the wedding. But can I also say that if she says, hey, are you gonna pay for their master's degree or are we gonna go to Hawaii? The answer is, where is my grass skirt? That's what the answer is. The kids can pay for their master's degree. Go with mama to Hawaii, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

Aloha.

[Ken Coleman]

Come on.

[Jade Warshaw]

I thought you were going in a different direction.

[Ken Coleman]

No, kids need to pay for their own masters.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm glad you did. I'm glad.

[Ken Coleman]

The Ramsay show. Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the app store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app. For free. Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. Alright, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.