Let Go of Others Expectations and Take Control of Your Own Future

Summary

The Ramsey Show: Let Go of Others' Expectations and Take Control of Your Own Future

Release Date: July 31, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey and co-host Dr. John Deloney delve deep into the intricate relationship between financial decisions and personal autonomy. Focusing on the theme "Let Go of Others' Expectations and Take Control of Your Own Future," the duo addresses a series of listener questions that highlight the challenges and triumphs of taking charge of one's financial destiny amidst societal and familial pressures.

1. Kathleen's Struggle with Financial Infidelity

Timestamp: [00:42]

Kathleen, a caller from Richmond, Virginia, opens up about her predicament with financial infidelity in her nearly decade-long marriage. Her husband unilaterally opened a credit card, leading to over $6,000 in debt, which he used for personal hobbies without her knowledge.

Kathleen:
"Buying hobby stuff. Are you guys not on a budget together?" [02:23]

Dave Ramsey addresses the issue by emphasizing that financial deceit is a breach of trust in marriage, not merely a budgeting problem. He advises Kathleen to seek immediate marital counseling, highlighting that such behavior is a deal-breaker if left unresolved.

Dave Ramsey:
"This is an integrity breach in the most precious relationship on the planet, which is between husband and wife." [04:28]

2. Devin's Career Crossroads

Timestamp: [10:02]

Devin from Midland, Texas, seeks guidance on whether to continue his current job with limited earnings or pursue a real estate license to potentially increase his income.

Devin:
"I'm trying to figure out if I should go back to work full time or go back to school." [10:11]

Dave Ramsey encourages Devin to secure a higher-paying full-time job first, suggesting that real estate can be a lucrative side hustle rather than abandoning stable income sources. He underscores the importance of not relying solely on potentially volatile income streams like real estate sales.

Dave Ramsey:
"We're not going to do nothing while we wait on the real estate license and wait on the first sale." [12:08]

3. James on Supporting Aging Parents

Timestamp: [16:33]

James from Chicago grapples with the responsibility of supporting his wife’s parents financially as they approach retirement without sufficient savings. With siblings uninterested in inheriting the family’s substantial real estate assets, James wonders how to prepare for a buyout.

James:
"My wife and I are currently on baby step number six. I'm wondering what would I need to do to buy them off when we get to that point." [34:02]

Dave Ramsey advises a cautious approach, promoting the idea of maintaining diversified investments rather than concentrating wealth in a single property. He warns against leveraging debt to acquire family assets, recommending instead a steady wealth-building strategy to prepare for future obligations.

Dave Ramsey:
"If you have $9 million and that's your entire net worth, I would not tell you to buy them out." [35:04]

4. Joseph's Pursuit of Personal Fulfillment

Timestamp: [22:39]

Joseph from Long Island, New York, confronts the pressure from his family to pursue traditional, high-paying careers like law, despite his growing interest in real estate.

Joseph:
"I'm about to turn 22 and have already accumulated $24,000 in debt. Should I take out more loans for law school?" [23:23]

Dave Ramsey and Dr. Deloney encourage Joseph to follow his passion rather than succumbing to familial expectations. They emphasize the importance of financial independence and making career choices that align with personal fulfillment and long-term financial stability.

Dave Ramsey:
"You have to honor their hearts because they got good hearts. But it's just because they come from where they came from—the definition of success is different." [26:30]

5. Maddie's Concerns About Inheriting Real Estate

Timestamp: [33:14]

Maddie from Salt Lake City, Utah, seeks advice on managing a substantial inheritance of $12 million in rental properties and apartments, as her siblings do not wish to inherit them.

Maddie:
"What would I need to do to buy them off when we get to that point? Do I need to start saving now?" [34:02]

Dave Ramsey recommends diversifying her investments and cautions against placing too much of her net worth in a single asset. He advises a long-term savings strategy to prepare for the eventual buyout, ensuring that her financial foundation remains robust.

Dave Ramsey:
"Don't let a single asset compose almost your entire net worth. That's really dangerous." [35:04]

6. Adam's Hypothetical on Baby Steps and Economy

Timestamp: [67:10]

Adam from Chicago poses a thought-provoking question about the potential macroeconomic impacts if a significant portion of the population adhered strictly to Dave Ramsey’s baby steps, reducing reliance on credit and debt.

Adam:
"What would happen to our overall economy with people not borrowing money or using credit cards?" [67:14]

Dave Ramsey explores the hypothetical scenario, suggesting that while individual financial health would improve, certain sectors like banks and credit-dependent industries might suffer. He highlights the balance between personal financial responsibility and economic dynamics.

Dave Ramsey:
"Even if we could talk enough people into working this plan, people would become wealthy, and wealthy people spend more money than poor people." [71:00]

7. Kelly's Challenge with Shared Finances

Timestamp: [49:27]

Kelly from Dallas seeks advice on how to achieve greater financial unity with her husband, who is hesitant to fully share their finances.

Kelly:
"My husband and I share some of our money, but he's not really open to sharing our finances fully. How can we feel more united?" [49:27]

Dave Ramsey emphasizes the importance of transparency and teamwork in marriage finances. He underscores that combining finances leads to better goal alignment and wealth-building, citing research that married couples tend to accumulate more wealth due to coordinated financial efforts.

Dave Ramsey:
"83% of millionaires say that you and your spouse work as a team with combined finances, high communication, high cooperation, and high alignment on goals." [53:16]

8. Daniel's Paycheck-to-Paycheck Dilemma

Timestamp: [86:23]

Daniel from Portland, Oregon, struggles with budgeting despite earning $65,000 a year and sharing rent with a roommate. He feels his extra income vanishes without clear allocation.

Daniel:
"I budget 400 a month for groceries, but it slowly turns into more like 600." [87:28]

Dave Ramsey and Dr. Deloney advise Daniel to adopt a disciplined budgeting system using tools like EveryDollar, ensuring every dollar is assigned a purpose. They stress the necessity of daily budget adherence to prevent funds from slipping away unnoticed.

Dave Ramsey:
"You're the boss of the budget until it's built. Once every dollar is assigned, the budget becomes the boss of you." [91:00]

Key Takeaways and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney consistently highlight the significance of:

• Financial Transparency: Open communication between spouses about finances fosters trust and collective financial success.

• Personal Autonomy: Making career and financial decisions based on personal goals rather than external expectations leads to greater fulfillment and stability.

• Strategic Planning: Whether dealing with existing debts, planning for inheritances, or considering major purchases, a well-thought-out financial plan is crucial.

• Budget Discipline: Adhering strictly to a budget and regularly tracking expenses can break the cycle of living paycheck to paycheck.

Dave Ramsey reinforces that financial peace stems from taking control of one's finances, making informed decisions, and aligning financial actions with personal values and goals. The episode serves as a powerful reminder that while external pressures and expectations can complicate financial decisions, ultimately, empowering oneself through financial literacy and disciplined planning can pave the way to a secure and fulfilling future.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey:
  "This is an integrity breach in the most precious relationship on the planet, which is between husband and wife." [04:28]

• Dave Ramsey:
  "83% of millionaires say that you and your spouse work as a team with combined finances, high communication, high cooperation, and high alignment on goals." [53:16]

• Dave Ramsey:
  "You're the boss of the budget until it's built. Once every dollar is assigned, the budget becomes the boss of you." [91:00]

This episode underscores the transformative power of financial control and the importance of aligning one's financial journey with personal aspirations, free from the constraints of others' expectations.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washall, number one best selling author Ramsey personality is my co host today. The Number here is triple 882-55-5225. Kathleen is with us in Richmond, Virginia. Hi Kathleen, how are you?

[Jade Washall]

I'm doing okay. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

Well, I'm dealing with a case of financial infidelity, unfortunately, and I'm a little lost in what I can do. Now I know that majority of it is going to be a marital issue and not necessarily a math problem. But until there is cooperation to solve our marital concerns, I want to know what is acceptable in my position to help, I guess give us a little bit of financial security for myself and my children.

[John Deloney]

Well, what are you up against? Tell us a little bit more details about what the infidelity is looking like.

[Jade Washall]

Sure. So my husband and I will be married almost 10 years next month. And a few years back. We've never had credit cards. We've always been on the same page. We did financial peace and we did really good for a while. We had children, four children in about five and a half years. And a few years ago he opened up a credit card without telling me.

[John Deloney]

Run up. What did he run up? How much debt?

[Jade Washall]

Over $6,000 in nine months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, to do what? What was he doing?

[Jade Washall]

Buying hobby stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you guys not on a budget together? Are you doing a budget together? At that point we were. You were. At that point we were.

[Jade Washall]

Now I had just had 6,000 stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

$6,000 worth of stuff appears in your house and you're doing a budget that didn't show $6,000. Did you not have a question about that at that time?

[Jade Washall]

I did. So I found it. I found out about the credit card. A month after he signed up for it. I found a piece of mail in the mailbox. And when I confronted him about it, he got super defensive and then proceeded to use it however he saw fit, which none of it went to any medical bills. None of it went to the house. None of it went to me or the children. It was all.

[John Deloney]

So what was that conversation? Explain that conversation. What happened? Did he just say, you know what, we've been living this lifestyle? I, you know, I just, I don't know if I agree with this whole debt free lifestyle. I mean, I think it's okay to use credit Cards. And I want to go forward with, was there a conversation or it was just, who cares what you think? I'm doing my thing?

[Jade Washall]

Unfortunately, yeah, it was the latter.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so how long was that again?

[Jade Washall]

It was about two and a half years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so why would you have an expectation that it quit? You wouldn't.

[Jade Washall]

So when he maxed out the card, he came to his senses. We had a heart to heart conversation, and he still wouldn't let me help. He still wouldn't show me the balance. Let me. Let's, you know, let's try to sell some things. Let's try to, like, you know, I said, I'll be happy to help. I'll pitch in. Like, this isn't just your problem. We're in this together. Let's. Let's figure this out. And he was super reluctant to still do that. However, over the course of a year, he did not use that card. And he did eventually cut it up and cancel it and then continue to.

[John Deloney]

Second year, skip forward, because that was two and a half years ago. Tell us what's happening today that's making you call the show.

[Jade Washall]

So in. In the spring, I felt he had earned some trust back, and I agreed to use 60% of our tax return to pay the card off in full. Three months later, I find out that he has opened yet another card.

[Caller]

So.

[John Deloney]

Got it. Okay, so he's.

[Dave Ramsey]

This has. You started the conversation correctly? I'm sorry, honey. This has absolutely nothing to do with money.

[Jade Washall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is an integrity breach in the most precious relationship on the planet, which is between husband and wife.

[Jade Washall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't trust your husband, and that's where you've got to go with this. Okay? It has nothing to do with the fact that it's a credit card and Ramsey hates credit cards. It's. He's lying to his wife and deceiving his wife about anything regularly as a pattern. And this is a deal breaker eventually. If you guys don't get this solved. This is not a situation where marriages last. And so you've got to sit down with a marriage counselor, both of you, immediately. It's your only choice.

[Jade Washall]

Which he's not willing to do, though.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then he's planning his divorce. Behavior is a language. Dr. John Deloney says it all the time. And his behavior is, I do whatever I want, and I'm not willing to work with my wife on anything. I'll do whatever I want. I'm gonna walk around, act like I am not married. That behavior is a language. He's saying he doesn't want to be married. So I'm gonna call him on that. You go to a marriage counselor, not a radio show, and you get some advice from that marriage counselor immediately on.

[Jade Washall]

How to begin when I've gone to a counselor. Cause the initial I'll say argument, because it didn't end up being a conversation, led to him telling me that I was the one that needed counseling and not him.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, we can't do anything about him. What I need, what I need you to do.

[Jade Washall]

There was no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, Listen to me. Stop talking. Listen to me. You need to go to a marriage counselor, and you need to get them to teach you how to frame an ultimatum out of frame of you're going to do this or this marriage is over. Because, honey, the marriage is over if you don't. The counselor can teach you. We can't make him go to counseling. We can't make him do anything. But we can. And you can make him conform to a set of principles, a form of set of behaviors in order to stay married. And those behaviors sound like go to marriage counseling. So we deal with why I feel like it's okay to lie to my wife. Because if he'll lie to you about this, honey, he'll lie to you about anything.

[John Deloney]

Well, that's the thing. That's where it is. Because I don't want somebody to hear, oh, we're telling her to get a divorce because they don't agree on money. There's no way that this behavior is only. But there's no way. It's only playing out in that arena.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stay married to someone who deceives you.

[John Deloney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Period. About anything.

[John Deloney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's that simple. A liar is not a basis for any kind of relationship.

[John Deloney]

Right. And, you know, but I'm sorry, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can'T have a business relationship. You can't have a contractual relationship. You can't have a marriage relationship. When my kids were little and they lied to me, they are out of relationship until. Till their tail end cools off.

[John Deloney]

Right. And I'm just saying that behavior rarely compartmentalizes itself into one.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it often. There's often other things going on. You're exactly right. If you're willing to lie and hide this, what else are you willing to lie and hide? And same thing true with a team member here, an employee.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. There's a few things that we don't work on. A plan to help someone turn it around. One of them is thieving. If you're gonna steal, I don't negotiate with Thieves, right? I don't want to rehab a thief. You're just fired that day. Your dad didn't do his job, your mom didn't do their job, so you're just fired. It's that simple. There's a couple things like that and so these are integrity breakdowns. It's nothing to do with money. Money's just where it's manifesting. Its.

[Advertisement Speaker]

My full time job is helping people make smart money decisions. But in my spare time, I'm a grill master. Okay, more of a semi amateur enthusiast, but you know what makes me get one step closer to pro level shopping At Aldi the other day I threw some simply nature organic chicken on the grill and ended up with a meal so good that even my picky toddler asked for seconds. Aldi has become my first stop for groceries because they've got it all from USDA choice beef to fresh organic produce. Everything you need to pull off a gourmet dinner without busting your groc grocery budget. So stop paying more and just shop at Aldi where you'll save with the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you@aldi US that's a L D I.us savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

[Dave Ramsey]

Devin is in Midland, Texas. Hi Devin. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[Caller]

How you doing, Mr. Ramsey?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I needed some, some advice from you guys. My wife, she works Monday through Thursday at a daycare. I work Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I take care of a patient who has cerebral palsy. But with my son's about to start daycare for the first time, I have my Monday through Thursday open to me. We're living just about under paycheck to paycheck. So I'm trying to figure out if I should go back to work full time, quit my job and find a normal 9 to 5 Monday through Friday or should I go back to school? I'm thinking about getting my real estate license.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, I definitely think you need to be working full time to bring in money. The question is, what is it? What made you choose real estate? Do you know that's what you want to do or is it just kind of like, hey, I'll choose this?

[Caller]

Well, I've been in a lot of positions, jobs where I've always been good and having to do sales to the point where I was even working at a oil change facility and I wasn't even under the car anymore. Cheating oil. I Was literally just doing straight sales of selling. You know.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is the most money you've ever made in your life in a year?

[Caller]

Oh, Lord. I think my most paying job I've ever had was about 18 an hour. So I, I couldn't even.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 40 grand a year you said.

[Caller]

Okay, all right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that was doing. What were you doing at 18 an hour?

[Caller]

I was working in the oil field. I was working for a safety company. I'm licensed by the state of Texas to work on fire extinguishers, maintenance, inspections.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how long ago was that?

[Caller]

About a year. The reason I quit was because I was away from home quite a bit. Yeah, my, my wife had just given birth to our second son. He's about to be two now. February, I'm oldest is going to be three here in about a week and I was missing a lot of time away from home, so. Yeah, that was the main reason. The second is, you know, again like.

[Dave Ramsey]

40 hours a week away from home.

[Caller]

About 50. Well, no, no, no, I apologize. I was doing about 6am to 5pm but then about two to three days out of the month I was doing overnights. I do two or three days out of town.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome to working.

[Caller]

Yeah, for sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lots of people do that. Like everybody that wants to earn a living. So you weren't being overworked. So yeah, you need to get the best possible full time gig you can get. And then if you want to work on the real estate as a side hustle until you get it up and running, that's okay. But we're not going to do nothing while we wait on the real estate license and wait on the first sale. It might be six months for sure. So you're working 40 hours, getting paid like starting next week?

[Caller]

Yeah, let's just hopefully. So we're waiting for a government assistance program to help us get our boys into daycare. That way I can, you know, starting, you know, and I could go back to the job. I was at it actually. Probably bit of beneficial they rehire me because I have my license for over a year now so I can actually start working on.

[Dave Ramsey]

I bet they're paying more than 18 now.

[Caller]

No, it's about the same. It's a, it's a family owned company. Just about every safety.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why don't you check around? That sounds awfully low. I mean stuff around the oil field usually pays a lot.

[Caller]

Yeah, especially here in Midland, Texas.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Why don't you get one of those a lot paying jobs instead of not paying jobs?

[Caller]

I'm trying, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I Mean really? I mean, working in the oil field, people make a lot more than 18 bucks. Hello. You know that.

[Caller]

Yeah. And. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's wrong with you? Can you get on with one of those gigs?

[Caller]

I could. I actually just applied to ExxonMobil but my, I guess my application was no longer, I guess, sustainable for what they were looking for. They denied me. But I have a couple friends who are in the oil field and they're trying to get me on with.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's how it works. That's how it works right there. And that's $30 an hour. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah, Yeah. I think our biggest issue is we only have one car. And so trying to figure out how.

[Dave Ramsey]

To get the difference in $18 and $30 will get you a cheap car.

[John Deloney]

What about your wife? She's working. Working Monday through Thursday. My guess is she's not earning much.

[Caller]

She earns $14 an hour. She works at a daycare. She gets there by 8:00am and gets off 5:00 clock with an hour break.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what I want you guys to do is to take a step back. I'm going to send you two books. Ken Coleman's proximity principle, which is getting your buddies in the oil field to help you get on. That's the proximity principle. And then I'm going to send you finding the work you're wired to do. I want you both to take that assessment. Matter of fact, guys, make sure you send two assessments with the book. Okay? Finding the work because both of you take it. Because here's the thing, both of you have jobs that you fell backwards into because at least it was work and at least I got paid. But both the jobs pay sucks.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I want you to start aiming at something high to get your pay up intentionally. What's my career moves, what must be true in my life. And that can be that you take the $30 an hour job and then you, that we're talking about and then you get a, you get your real estate license and you go around, you get your first house sold, your second house sold part time on the side, on the weekends, which is most of the time when real estate's done anyway. And then, and then maybe you get where you can quit and go full time real estate and make some serious money. But you're gonna have to develop that skill. The good news is, you know, you know you're comfortable with selling. You told me that about the oil thing, right? The oil change place. So. Yeah, but what's. We can, what we can do what we can no longer do is that you've been doing is accept low pay.

[John Deloney]

Well, there's, there's a wheel to that because if you are spending a certain amount of your time doing a task and the pay is worth it, you're going to lose interest in doing it and you're not going to want to go to work, which is what's happened to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's the second thing.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, the second thing you all not been doing well is you're not been working much.

[John Deloney]

Huh?

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean like parents, parents that have two kids, most of them work and y' all just together barely have a.

[John Deloney]

Full time job and it's because you're not getting paid enough. So you need to find something that you feel is worth your time and you're excited about what you do and then you're going to want to go to work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

It's fulfilling to you at that point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. And that doesn't necessarily mean you have to go back to school. It probably doesn't mean that. But what you got to do is start aiming at this and saying okay, what must be true. That's not true today. What have I got to change in order to get that thing moving? James is in Chicago. Hey James, how are you doing?

[Caller]

Well, how about yourself?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I have a. My wife's parents that love to death. Super generous people, but to a fault. They have not been the best with finances in the past. I don't believe they're in a ton of debt or anything like that. But they're reaching the end of when they will be able to continue working and they have not planned for retirement. How old are they currently? They're 67.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Are they bad health?

[Caller]

No, decently good health. Yeah, not a huge concern.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have they come to you for money?

[John Deloney]

I was gonna say, what's your game on this?

[Caller]

No, no. So they don't come to us for money. They have what I understand, quite a bit of equity in their house. It's probably worth a little bit north of a million dollars. But my wife mentioned the other day that her plan all along, along with her siblings is to support them into their retirement years.

[John Deloney]

What does that mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

So there be nice of you to mention that plan before we got married.

[Caller]

Well, I mean she had kind of hinted at it and threw clues along the way. She was a very good saver even before we met and managed to save quite a bit of money that would be enough to execute on their plan. But basically they're talking about Buying their house from them or figuring out how to put it into a trust and then giving them an allowance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, boy.

[Caller]

Normally, it's tough. I'm kind of in a bind because, like I mentioned, they're super generous people. They help out with kids, et cetera. But I haven't really witnessed a lot of financial literacy on their end. And I'm a bit concerned that we would be, you know, not teaching them how to fish, so to speak.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm concerned that your wife doesn't care.

[Caller]

That's. That's my concern as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think that's your issue. I don't think your in laws are your issue. I think you got a wife issue.

[John Deloney]

Agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the two of you got to sit down and decide what our family is willing to do for that family. And this assumption you made that we are just going to support them and you and I hadn't talked about it, that's not cool at all. You just come in and surprise me. That's like, I'm, honey, I just bought a $60,000 bass boat. Look, you know, we don't surprise people like that when we're married. We talk about things before we do them, and then we develop a game plan on that we're both comfortable with. And then that may involve you guys helping to educate them or be involved in some of their decisions on selling their home that they can't afford to. Let's face it, health insurance today is more complicated than ever. The system isn't built to help the average person understand, and it leaves too many families unprotected. That's why you need my friends at Health Trust Financial. They aren't just brokers. They're trusted health insurance advisors who have been helping families like yours for over 20 years. You don't have to navigate it alone. The experts at Health Trust Financial listen to your needs, work to understand your family situation, and budget, then help you choose the health insurance plan that's right for you. That's why they're Ramsey trusted and why we've worked with them for two decades. Look, medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in America today. One hospital visit can wipe out your savings and undo all your hard work. So health insurance isn't optional. It's part of your financial defense plan. Health Trust Financial knows their stuff, and they're the only health insurance provider I recommend. So get clear about health insurance plans and get the coverage that's right for you. @healthtrust financial.com. if you're feeling stuck and overwhelmed with your money, well, you don't have to stay there. Our book, the Total Money Makeover, is the crash course that helps you learn the Ramsey Plan, how to beat debt, build wealth, take control, and be generous. It walks you through the famous seven baby steps in real language. And it's really fast, really clear read. Most people finish it in a day. We're now at about 14 million people have picked this book up and it's helped them, well, help them get what they need to do to get moving. Get your [e-mail] store or if you're on the YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description and we'll get you set up. This book has become the cornerstone of what we teach around here, and it has certainly moved a lot of people along. It's also been one of America's most famous coasters on coffee tables. It just sits there and people set their coffee cup on it for five years until suddenly one day they pick it up and they go, oh my gosh.

[John Deloney]

Huh? It's been screaming at the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mama gave this to me and I just put it on the shelf until I woke up broke one morning. Then I got it off the shelf. But yeah, that thing. It's the most delayed read book I've ever seen too. But eventually people pick it up and then they go, oh, well, I can actually do this. Joseph's in Long Island, New York. Hey, Joseph, how are you?

[Jade Washall]

Good.

[Caller]

How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, I just wanted to ask. So I come from like a rather poor European household and being that since a young age, I was kind of told that, hey, when you grow up, you have to be a doctor or a lawyer. And I kind of believed it and still did believe up until a few years ago that that was my only real option. But if we fast forward now, I'm about to turn 22 in a month and I'm a senior in a community college. I've accumulated already $24,000 in debt. And I don't know if taking out another hundred to one hundred fifty for law school makes sense right now. For fee numbers, I work part time while in college, I make 20,000 a year and I'm currently going through a real estate course.

[John Deloney]

So you've been told you have to be a doctor or lawyer. You don't want to be. And not only do you have to be a doctor or lawyer, but you would be the one to pay for or be on hook for the debt for obtaining a degree that you don't Want to get. And you're asking us what we think you should do?

[Caller]

Correct.

[John Deloney]

I think you should not go into debt for a degree that you cannot afford and don't even want.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me make sure. You don't want to be a lawyer? Is that what you're saying? Regard. If it was free, would you want to be a lawyer?

[Caller]

If it was free, I'm kind of unbiased. I have no problem being a lawyer. Like, I have no problem with the job. I don't think it's bad. I don't think it's great. But at the end of the day, my outlook on life is whatever makes the money.

[John Deloney]

I don't know about that outlook.

[Caller]

Yeah, I know. It's. It's a little skewed.

[John Deloney]

Well, it's so much money. It's. It's so much money to go in with no passion. And I don't think the prospect of I could make a lot of money one day is enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

Anyone in your family a lawyer?

[Caller]

No. My parents are immigrants and they work paycheck to paycheck, so they kind of just. They were.

[Dave Ramsey]

So they wanted a good life for you. They wanted you to have the best possible life. And for them, that was doctor or lawyer. That's the way they saw it. So they have. They have a good heart, but maybe their methodology is bad.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your degree in your undergrad?

[Caller]

It's business management.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you think you want to do real estate?

[Caller]

Yeah. So I work in the restaurant business now part time. And a lot of my local, like, regulars are real estate brokers. And they have expressed to me several times that if I go through the course, get the license, I can totally work for them right out of the gate. So I thought that might be promising.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Well, that's true. What I think I want you to do is I want you to figure out what you want to be and then let's reverse engineer how to get there rather than just going, okay, I can make money in real estate or I can make money as a lawyer. I haven't heard anything yet about what I want to do, who I want to be, what sets my soul on fire, what makes me really, really excited. Instead, you're just gravitating where I can get a paycheck.

[Caller]

Gotcha. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I want you to. I don't mind you getting paid, you know, $800,000 a year. That's perfectly good with me. As a matter of fact, I think working your passion and making no money is a bunch of crap. Okay. Because if you work your passion, you ought to actually get good at it and make money. So I just don't buy that stuff. But on the other hand, working is something that you, to Jade's point earlier, that you don't have a lot of passion for, certainly don't want to go into debt for that. So you're living your parents dream and you're having to finance it to the tune of 150 on the lawyer thing. So I'm with you on that one, Joseph. I think we're going to tell mom and dad, hey, I'm going to go live the American dream. I just found out it's different than you thought it was. It's not a lawyer.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And they might push back on you, they likely will. But you're going to have to, that's something that you're probably going to have to power through as an adult now.

[Dave Ramsey]

They want the good things for you, want good things for you. They're not bad people. They just don't know how to define it. So I'll give you an example, Joseph. My grandmother, my grandpa worked for Alcoa Aluminum and accounting. And when he retired he was a head cost accountant in Alcoa, Tennessee. Okay. And so he had one job his whole working life. I go broke in real estate, lose everything. My grandparents think I'm gonna be living in a box on the side of the road, which was pretty close, but not quite. And then I write a little book. And the day my publisher called to tell me that we had just sold the millionth copy, my grandmother was the next call and she said, honey, I was praying this morning, I'm worried about you. When are you going to get a real job? Okay. So what that means is my grandmother loved me a lot and I loved her. And she wanted what was good for me. But her definition of what was good for me was 38 years at Alcoa Aluminum. And meanwhile I just sold the millionth copy of Financial Peace. Okay. I thought it was doing okay. I had financial peace, granny. But she couldn't get her head around that even though she wanted good things for me. She wasn't bad, okay? But it didn't fit. And that's where you are. Your mom and dad want you to be a lawyer because for them that's the 38 years at alcohol, Aluminum, that's the great American dream. It's something you can count on. All lawyers make money. All doctors make money. That's what their eyes see. Although that's not true. That's what their eyes See, and so them, you know, you convincing them may take a while with your success. You may have to become successful before they become convinced that this was a good idea to not go to law school. But I think you shouldn't go to law school. I agree with you, okay? But I want to, I want to honor their hearts because they got good hearts. My granny had a good heart. Okay? And we don't need to be disrespectful, but it's just because they from where they came from. That's the definition of success. If you, if you time warped them back to 1950 and you were in small town America in 1950, you need to be a doctor, a lawyer or a banker. Oh God help you if you're a banker today. You know, I mean. But yeah, you know, so, but and that was, that was the def. That was who's in the chamber of commerce in the small town and in the people that had. That went to the country club, you know. And so that was the definition then. And that's what they've got in their heads is that 1950, 1960 Persona. So anyway, now let's go on to Joseph. I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book Finding the Work youk're Wired to Do. I want you to take the assessment and I want you to start thinking about what I can do that when I'm 40. The 40 year old version of you is going to look back at the 23 year old version of you and thank him. Thank you for thinking, for doing the soul searching to find out where I can make a lot of money on something that sets my soul on fire. And that's where you need to be, sir. And so the answer is probably neither one of these. But it could be real estate. It's okay. I don't mind real estate if you do real estate. By the way, it's gonna be tough. 22 year olds selling houses have a problem. You're gonna have to grow a mustache because you look like you're 12 and nobody buys houses from 12 year olds. I know. I got my real estate license when I turned 18. It was hard. Hard Wearing my disco clothes and show houses. Right. Complete with Mr. T starter kit, gold chains. I'm just saying you were wearing gold chains, Dave. It was disco time, man. A while back. It was a minute ago. All right, so hang on. We'll send you all that stuff out, honey, and we'll help you out. But your mom and dad are sweet people. They're good people, we're not going to dishonor them. They just want the American Dream for you. It's why they fought to get to come here. And that's why a lot of people want to live in America because it's the best place on the planet to live. They fight to get to do it.

[Advertisement Speaker]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Life can get messy and work can be stressful. We all know this. And when our work lives and our regular lives collide, our minds and our bodies feel it. There's a ton of research about the impact of workplace stress and bad bosses on your mental and emotional health. And most of us can't just take a vacation from work whenever we want. But we can start with small, manageable steps to take control of our work stress and our home life stress. This includes getting good sleep, getting sunlight, exercise, having good relationships. And for many of us, it means working through challenges with a great therapist. Therapy can help you navigate whatever challenges the workday or any day might might bring. And if you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is a hundred percent online, which means it's affordable and convenient. To get started. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with the licensed therapist and as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. BetterHelp has an App Store rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars based on over 1.7 million client reviews. It's incredible. Manage your workday challenge challenges or any challenges with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you staying on track with your baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress for free and receive a personalized plan for free just for you. Simply head to the show notes, click the link titled Are you on track with the baby steps? And complete the quiz for free. Maddie is in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hi Maddie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Washall]

Hi. It's such an honor to speak with you both.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too. How can we help?

[Jade Washall]

Thank you. Me and my husband are currently on baby step number six. My question is I am wondering if this is something I need to prepare for my he owns about $12 million in rentals and apartments. My siblings. There's about four of us and they are not interested in inheriting them when that time comes. And I am wondering what I would need to do to buy them off when. When we get to that point. Like, do I need to start saving now?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds like you need $9 million.

[Jade Washall]

Excuse me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds like you'd need $9 million.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are your parents?

[Jade Washall]

He's. My dad is 66. My mom's 65.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your house, what's your household income?

[Jade Washall]

Me and my husband make. Make around 230k a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, mom and dad gotta live a while because you're not ready, right?

[Jade Washall]

Exactly. Yes.

[Caller]

Yeah, but that's a lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

So why. Why are you so interested in owning these particular apartments?

[Jade Washall]

They run very well. Me and my husband, we managed them for years while we were setting up a house. We lived in the apartments so that we could put a down payment, a good down payment on our current home. So we know how to run them. We know. We know the numbers, we know the books, we know what it takes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

To. To run them. And we are. We would love to become landlords.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Is, are they. Is there any debt on them?

[Jade Washall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, well, they're going up in value every year. So the longer your parents live, the longer, the larger the number is. But the longer your parents live, the longer, the more time you've got to save up to get ready to do this. If you have $9 million and that's your entire net worth, I would not tell you to buy them out. I think it would be unwise to have your entire net worth in one apartment complex, even though you like it. So you're going to need $20 million for this to be wise, which I'm not real hopeful of.

[John Deloney]

What is your net worth during baby step six?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got a lot. You got some equity in the house, but still got a mortgage, and you got some money in your 401k. And so. But you're making good money. That's good news. So the only way to buy them out is one of two things. Either have the cash or go into debt to do it. And so I'm going to have the cash. And if I have the cash, I wouldn't personally tell you to keep an investment property. That one investment property composes almost your entire net worth. I think that's really dangerous.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so that was going to be my question is if we should jump into investment property sooner, and that way when this comes, we can sell that and use that money.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we don't get in a hurry. You still go. You still go build wealth. You make good money, get your home paid off. Let's pile up some cash if you want to buy some other properties as your baby step seven goes, that's okay. Pay cash for them as you go. But I'm not going to panic and do something silly to try to get rich quick so that I'm ready to buy Papa's apartments.

[John Deloney]

I mean, worst case scenario is when this day comes and you get your split of whatever the money was when you sell off these apartments, you take that money and go buy your own piece of rental that you're doing. I mean, that's worst case, right? And you're still doing the thing you want to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're just, let's pretend that this is a few years from now. Let's just make up some numbers just to kind of give you an example of what Jade's talking about. This is where I would see it coming down if I was your dad, and I'm your dad's age, okay? And I've got a bunch of real estate. This is how I would tell my kids to look at it, okay? Because you got a single asset here. It's not diversified. You have this single asset. So I would say if you guys, if it's worth 24 million when I'm gone, you'd get 6 million each. And by then you've probably saved up 4 or 5 million yourself. With your $200,000 income, it's 20 years from now, right? Okay. So you got 4 or 5 million and then you sell off the apartment complex, which makes your heart flutter a little bit. I heard that. That's okay. I'm still doing it. And it's 24 million. So you got 6 million to go buy your property. That does for you what you thought this one was going to do for you. And you pay cash for it. And it's not 90% of your net worth, then it's 40% of your net worth, which is a little scary, but not nearly as scary as something single asset being all your net worth. Okay?

[John Deloney]

And the best part is all of this is kind of figured out ahead of time. It's not you after your dad goes to heaven, trying to chop this up with your siblings. It's already kind of decided, you know what I mean? It's not you hounding them to buy out their portion and all this stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think the real estate's going to go up so much in value that you're not going to be able to catch up with buying out the other 75%.

[Jade Washall]

I see. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I'm Afraid of is out of reach.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. There are different units, so different buildings. And there's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are they partial?

[Jade Washall]

One, two. There's like eight of them. Eight different buildings.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but are they parceled or is it on one piece of property parcels. Oh, so it's not. It's a. It's a. It's not really a single complex.

[Jade Washall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, you could just take your portion of it.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The equivalent of that.

[Jade Washall]

Interested that we are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, then they're going to sell off the other ones because you can't afford them. But if you can, or maybe you can afford to buy some of them, but not all of them, and you take your portion plus some of them, that kind of a thing. But there's two things I don't want you to violate. I don't want you to go into debt to do this when it happens later. And I don't want you to use every dime you've got and have a single asset be the 90% of your net worth, because that's too dangerous. That's two things. And I'll add a third one. Don't get desperate and stupid trying to pile up a bunch of money. Get rich quick in order to make this deal happen because it's not that important. You're going to mess up the whole thing trying to get in a hurry. So work your steady plan to build your wealth. Then you're going to inherit $6 million worth of real estate, give or take, depending on how long mom and dad live. And maybe you buy out your brothers or sisters for some of it. But those are the three things. Don't get desperate and fast. Don't go into debt, and don't let. When this end of this story comes, this single asset being 90% of your net worth. And Jade, something just flashed through my mind, so I'm going to say it. This is one of the problems that we have when we're coaching entree leaders in small businesses. They don't have any investments except their business. So 90% of their net worth is tied up in the value of the heating and air guy who's got 30 trucks. And he has one company and he didn't do his own 401k and he has no rental properties. He doesn't own anything but that company.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then there, you know, you.

[John Deloney]

It's the equivalent of a single stock.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's exactly, exactly. You know, I put all of my com. All of my retirement in one company. And that's. That's not a good plan, y' all we fuss at the small business guys all the time. Do your own 401k, do your own side investing, and then that sets you up to do a different thing. For instance, Ramsey Solutions is a very valuable company. 100% of it will be given to our children.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And honestly, they will not pay a dime for it.

[John Deloney]

With AI the way it is, too, if you think that, you don't know what the future holds. So it's really great to have those diversifications because something that is a business that's popping right now, you don't know in 10 years what it's going to look like. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's true. Very true. Yeah, very true. And the reason we're able to give the 100% to our children is we have other investments. Not our only investment is not this company.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

We do own the real estate that is sitting in, which is pretty sweet in and of itself. So there you go. Said we're going to be okay. And since I'm supposed to die before Sharon, Sharon's going to be okay. So that's. I'm having to sleep with one eye open these days. Not sure how she developed this estate plan. I'm a little worried about it, but there we go. This is the Ramsay Show. Life is unpredictable. That's why I teach the importance of things like having an emergency fund, buying term life insurance, and getting a will from my friends at Mama Bear Legal forums. Because if you don't plan ahead for when you're gone, it can cause a big mess. And that's the last thing your family needs, especially when they're grieving your loss at the same time. But a will spells out exactly what you want to happen after you've passed away. No guesswork, no courtrooms, and no family fights. Just peace and clarity. It's your way of saying, I love you and I took care of this so you don't have to. And thanks to Mama Bear, getting your will done is fast, easy, and affordable. In just 20 minutes, you can give your family the peace of mind they'll need during one of the most challenging times of their lives. And unlike a lot of other online will companies, the price you see at the beginning is the price you [e-mail] so take care of it today. Go to mamabearlegalforms.com use the promo code RAMSEY to save 20%. That's 20% off with code [e-mail] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. Where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Thanks for joining us America. Jade Washaw Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. John is in New Jersey. Hey John, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey guys, thank you for taking my call today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

So I have, I'm in baby step two right now. That total money makeover, you know, last year changed my perspective on finances and things. So, you know, changing things around. And my wife is, I would say 80% on board with the, with the plan. But we have two debts left. We basically paid off about $100,000 this past year of car notes, you know, things around the house, student loans. And our last two debts are her student loans and a 401k loan that we took out before. I knew not to do that. How much are those down payment on a house? So the, her school loan debt is about 6,500 and the other one is $40,000. And I know that you're supposed to do smallest debt to largest debt, but in this situation, my wife doesn't want to pay off her student loans first because we get a $50 stipend from her company which is basically quote unquote, you know, free money. And so she. I'm sorry, what was that?

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you get?

[Caller]

$50 per month.

[John Deloney]

$50 to keep a student loan around.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's $600 a year. That means 10 years to pay it off.

[Caller]

No, no, no, no. So we're paying over.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. If you want to keep getting the $50 and that's your rationale, then you're going to pay it off at $600 a year, $50 a month, which is $6,000 for 10 years.

[Caller]

Right. So, you know, my thing is like 50 is nothing. We should just pay it off right.

[John Deloney]

Now because interest is back, you know.

[Caller]

Right. And I can't really seem to budge her on this because she's just like, well, it's kind of, you know, it's just kind of like free money that off last.

[Dave Ramsey]

How about if I give her a nickel? What would she do for that?

[Caller]

I know, right? So our income is just like, our base income is just shy 300,000.

[John Deloney]

300,000. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. 300,000 and this woman is keeping a 6,500 student loan for $50. That is, that's you going. That's Chick Fil A. What are you saying?

[Caller]

Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying.

[John Deloney]

I mean, you know, it.

[Caller]

Oh, wow. Yeah. She doesn't Want to budge on this, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no, we have to stop, though.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. We have to get past stupid. This is stupid. Okay. I don't care if she wants to budge. She needs to get her head wrapped around the mathematics of how dumb her but not budging is.

[John Deloney]

You've paid off $100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's ridiculous. You're not gonna keep this loan long enough to get much $50. Because even if you turn around and pay off the 40, you've already paid off 100. If you pay off the 40 in the next six months, you're gonna pay off the six right after that. I assume you're not gonna keep it forever, or. She wants to keep it like it's a pet.

[Caller]

No. So she wants to pay off this 401k loan for us every month.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. So six months. What's the difference?

[Caller]

She does want to. Just to ride it out, basically, which would be about two years.

[John Deloney]

What's the.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it does. It's not two years, honey. It's 10 years. Y' all need to work on your math skills.

[Caller]

No, we're paying. We're paying over. We're paying 337 right now. And then we get $50 on top of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got that. But the $50 you're riding it out for would take 10 years to get. You know, you're working your butts off for 200 bucks here.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I agree with you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just asinine.

[Caller]

And I'm.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we're not gonna ride this out, honey. This is. We're not keeping this thing around like it's a pet. We are getting out of debt.

[John Deloney]

You have to use where there's no rationale.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just aghast. She was getting $500 a month. I mean, you know. And you want to keep it for a year and let that thing pay it off? Okay, we'll talk about flipping it that way.

[John Deloney]

$50.

[Dave Ramsey]

But this is just. This is like.

[John Deloney]

That's nothing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm. I'm so confused as to how much value she is putting on this.

[John Deloney]

There's something else to it, because it doesn't. Not making $300,000 so proud.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's so proud of her company for doing this. I don't know. It's. It's. It's hilarious, though.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very sad. Very sad. Very funny. Very sad. Kelly's in Dallas. Kelly's in Dallas. How are you, Kelly?

[Jade Washall]

Hi. I'm doing well. Thank you so much for taking my call. It's really an honor to speak with you both.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Jade Washall]

So my husband and I share some of our money, but he's not really open to sharing, like fully our finances. And I wonder if you just have advice on how to have that conversation. I'd like us to feel more united, like our savings for the future. And going forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

My wife would tell me she wouldn't be open to sharing our bed.

[John Deloney]

Listen, I was gonna say the exact same thing. I heard somebody say this, and it's so true. If you said to your spouse, hey, I'm committed to you, I love you, I'm devoted to you. But only Monday through Saturday. Sunday is my day. Right. If you said that to him, he would, it'd be a head scratcher. He'd be like, no, that's not gonna be okay with me. How can you be devoted through me Monday through Saturday, but on Sunday you go off and do your thing, it doesn't exist. That's not a true commitment. And I think if you can paint it almost in as ridiculous of a picture as Dave and I just did, it will help him see how ridiculous he is by keeping some of the money for himself and some of it with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And let's quit just beating the guy for a second because I'm tempted to, but I'll quit for a minute. But we get this question a lot. So here's what I would share with him. Okay. And I'll send you a copy of the Baby Steps millionaires book. It has in the back the white paper on the research we did where we did the largest study of millionaires ever done, 10,167 of them. Okay. When we did that, we found that 83% of millionaires spouse and them and their spouse work as a team with combined finances, high communication, high cooperation, high alignment on goals. And they attribute that in the surveys we did with them as being one of the reasons they were able to build wealth. The contrary piece of that is when we interview the general public, only 40% align on goals and share finances. So the bottom line is that not sharing finances keeps you from aligning on your goals, your future goals. Exactly and in detail. And not sharing finances lowers the quality of the communication in the relationship down. And not sharing finances, not being one. Unified, fully unified. Then the preacher said, and now you are one. He didn't say, and now you are a joint venture. And here's the terms of the joint venture. 1. What they say, it's a full on thing. The benefits are the marriage has a higher probability of lasting, a higher probability of happiness. This is data from research. Okay. And there's a higher probability of building wealth because we are aligned on our goals. It would be just like if he was at work running a team at work, and three of the people on the team didn't want to do what the other nine were doing. It'd be hard to get that team to be productive. You've got to be able to line. Or let's say you snapped in the huddle on the NFL and you went to the line and three people did whatever they wanted to do, and the other three ran the play, or the other of the other nine, eight run the play. It wouldn't work. And that's the same thing. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Advertisement Speaker]

And what's so hard is I feel like one of those. Especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible air. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady, and she had three kids pregnant, and husband didn't have life insurance. And I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Advertisement Speaker]

If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out, how am I gonna afford childcare? How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like. And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death death to a whole new level. Like, when you have to think through, how am I going to pay my.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bills, how am I going to next week. Yeah.

[Advertisement Speaker]

In the middle of all that grief, like, it's just.

[John Deloney]

It is.

[Advertisement Speaker]

It's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm, like, so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re upping it because I'm like, I just want it there. Like, there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud. And you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza there really is.

[Advertisement Speaker]

So that is one thing to do, to say I love you to your family.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we've used Zander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282. Or go to Zander. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Eric is in Canada. Hi, Eric. What's up?

[Caller]

How's it going, guys? Thanks for having me. So my wife and I are in baby step two, trying to just snowball it. We take home roughly 8, 800 bucks a month. Leaves us a margin after all our bills and debts and minimum payments, about 1500 bucks. But I'm trying to get a new job, which would be a pretty significant raise for me, but I would have to buy my own vehicle. My wife currently drives our truck and I would need my own reliable vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what do you make now?

[Caller]

Right now, my salary before bonuses, anything like that is 72,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, with bonuses, what do you make?

[Caller]

Around 80.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what's the raise? What's the new job gonna pay?

[Caller]

The salary would be around 85, and then with bonuses and commissions, probably closer to 110 to 120.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so a 30 or a $40,000 swing.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And you have no money?

[Caller]

We've got our thousand dollar emergency fund and I mean, just some retirement accounts, but nothing liquid other than the thousand dollar emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

The reliable car gets you to work. Is that the reliable car you need?

[Caller]

Yeah, I would prefer that my wife keeps the truck because it's newer and.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you're going to use your car that you need that you don't have to drive to work. That's it?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I'm just making sure how you're using the car. Okay, now?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

The place that's hiring you, what are you going to be doing? What are you going to be doing at the place that's hiring you?

[Caller]

Sales.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. What are you selling?

[Caller]

Oil and lubricants and things like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you. You're not out of the office doing that?

[Caller]

I would be in an office.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm saying you're not out of the office and running a territory doing that. Sorry, Are you driving a territory to do that?

[Caller]

That, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're not just driving to the office.

[Caller]

It be both Some the, the travel schedule would be.

[John Deloney]

The point is you've got to consider the amount of miles that you're going to be putting on this car.

[Caller]

Right.

[John Deloney]

So you said you've got 1500 in margin every single month. Is there any other savings you have laying around?

[Dave Ramsey]

Thousand dollars.

[John Deloney]

Okay. So, yeah, what I'm looking at is how can I quickly cash flow something that will get the job done, knowing that over time you might have to put a little with it to upgrade it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what I would ask the people hiring you? Say I've got a company car, I'm going to lose. And so I need to get a signing bonus that can be paid back out of my first commissions to buy a car.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So I need a $5,000 advance on commissions to go buy a car.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if they don't believe in you that much? I don't know if they believe in you. Well, they do believe in you. They're talking about paying you 80 grand base, so. But I got a feeling in this current job market they might do that and then just go get you a $5,000 car and then let's get you out of debt and then you can move up in car later. You're probably going to need a decent truck to do, driving around doing what you're doing, I suspect. But for right now, for right now, we can start the gig. Let's start the gig with 5,000 bucks.

[Caller]

Okay. So between now and the start date, if I can put away five grand, just kind of pause on.

[Dave Ramsey]

No one want to say, I said they need to give you a signing bonus of five grand, but if they.

[John Deloney]

Don'T, you would still take the job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I would just stop doing everything and save up quickly to get a car.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's worth it to get a 40 grand bump.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think I hear in your voice you want to do it anyway.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You like the job?

[Caller]

Yeah. And my wife works with this company already and it's better pay, better vacation, better everything.

[Jade Washall]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

How big a company is this?

[Caller]

Pretty. Pretty large. One of the largest oil companies in Canada.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. All right. So working with your spouse is not a problem then. Okay.

[Caller]

We wouldn't be in the same division. There's no conflict there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

I mean, I really think that if they didn't give you the bonus with your margin, you could quickly get yourself in a three or four thousand dollar car. And then because of this pay bump, if you needed to upgrade it sooner than later, you could.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, there's A lot of stuff you can do here, but just start. Don't be afraid to start low and work your way up in car, though.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, I've been looking, trying to find, like, on the high end, it was like a $10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have $10,000. That's too far away.

[John Deloney]

Does your. Hey, does your wife have to drive around for her job or does she just go straight into the office? And could you drive the truck and let her drive the beater just for a minute?

[Dave Ramsey]

Same office.

[Caller]

Not the same office, but really close.

[Dave Ramsey]

We could share for a month.

[Caller]

Mm, yeah.

[John Deloney]

Love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, for a month. Do the hard stuff for a month and then that gets you five grand out of your pocket. And that's if they won't give you an advance. I'm asking for the advance. I tell them the truth. The truth is I'm losing my company car. I don't have a car. So help me out here, guys. Just give me an advance on my commissions, and I'm going to earn through them pretty quick. You know that you wouldn't be hiring me if you didn't think that. And, you know, this is just. It's a competitive hiring environment. So I know you guys want me and I want to be there. So help me out here, guys. And that's the way the conversation sounds. And, you know, that's a. That's a way you can do this. Yeah. I'm not going to ask them to buy you a car, but I am going to ask them to advance your commission so you can buy a car. Let's not get back into the company car business again. All right. Matthew's in Panama City, Florida. Hey, Matthew. What's up?

[Caller]

David is great to speak to you. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

Awesome. So I'm 32. My wife is 31. And about six years ago, about a year before Hurricane Michael came through Panama City beach, we purchased a piece of property down at the beach that had an old trailer on it. Since then, I've torn down the trailer. Now it's just an empty lot. And since Michael, the value of that has gone crazy. We're in baby steps four, five, and six. We've got two young kids, and there's nothing pressuring us, but we do have a mortgage, and we're making extra payments on it. We have about 170,000 left on the mortgage. The lot is now worth about between 150 and $160,000. Should we sell that lot to pay for our primary Residence. And the lot is zoned for for. For duplex and triplex. So we could build a different.

[Dave Ramsey]

Didn't own the lot and your home was paid for, would you borrow on your home to buy the lot?

[Caller]

Not for what it's currently worth.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I mean. Would you buy. If you. If your home was paid for and you did not own the lot and you could buy the lot for its market value, 170,000, would you go borrow 170,000 on your house to buy that lot? On a paid for house? On a paid for house or not on my house?

[Jade Washall]

No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the same thing just in reverse, isn't it?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That tells me to sell.

[Caller]

Okay, but you wouldn't be worried about lost opportunity cost in the area.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you'd be worried about that if you didn't borrow on your house to buy the lot. In my scenario, yes, sir. That wasn't enough to get you to borrow on your house a while ago, correct?

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So it's not enough to get you to keep it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because we're gonna pay off the house. I love paying off your house, and I think it's so cool that you made a great real estate transaction. And now that everything is paid off and you're in baby step seven, you can save up and do some other real estate transactions with cash. Sounds like you might have a nose for it. Congratulations. I'm proud of you. Worked out great. Buy an old lot with a trailer on it. Take the trailer down. Wait on a hurricane. It's a good plan. I like it. That's in the email bag. Dave. My husband and I are celebrating 35 years of marriage this August. We started using your EveryDollar app 18 months ago. I cannot thank you and the team enough for this. For 35 years, our major arguments were around money. Although we've been extremely blessed and responsible financially, our money was still controlling us instead of the other way around. In the past, we had wildly disparate views. For example, rightly or wrongly, one of us would believe the sky was falling, while the other spouse would believe there's sufficient money to buy a vacation home. We didn't have actual concrete facts. Without that knowledge, we didn't really understand where the money was going every month. And any emotional financial baggage from the past experiences ruled our discussions. Now we can act not on vague beliefs or controlled by childhood traumas, but on actual knowledge. We have the facts. We know exactly where we choose to spend, save, invest, and donate every hard earned dime. We are no longer, we no longer have little hidden purchases from each other. Finally, after decades, we are truly in this together. It has brought increased harmony to our relationship. I only regret we weren't doing this when the children were younger so they could have seen this in action. Regardless, I want to thank you for your hard work and applaud the young couples and individuals who are developing these skills early in their lives. It is a blessing. Way to go. Very cool.

[John Deloney]

Awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, we have free every dollar trainings with the Ramsey personalities. How to put that budget in place like that lady did. Jade's doing one this coming Monday and we're going to be showing you how to stick to a budget, build the budget. And typically people find around $9,000 worth of margin as soon as they lay out their first plan. And lately it's been even more than 9,000. But that's at least. And you can ask questions during the live Q and A. So if you want to talk to Jade or Rachel or George when they're doing this, this, you can. Plus you can ask any question in the Q and A and sign up for free right [e-mail] webinar. Adam is with us in Chicago. Hi, Adam. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I've been watching your YouTube videos for several years now. I love your advice. I even read your book.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you.

[Caller]

But what I've been. Yeah. What I've been thinking about through the years is what would happen to our economy if people really started more and more people started to follow your baby steps and not spend like Congress and get rid of debt. How would that affect our overall economy with people not borrowing money or using credit cards?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we probably will never know, darn it. But it's an interesting hypothetical question to think about. The only way I know to think it through is to think through what happens to an individual when they follow our baby steps. Okay, so let's take a couple that did a debt free scream a couple of days ago. All right. They've been working the plan for six years. They paid off their home. They're 37 years old and they have $500,000 in their 401k. They're 100% debt free and they're millionaires. They're 37 years old. They followed the baby steps exactly. They're what we call baby steps millionaires. And it took them about eight years to work the Whole thing. Okay, now what happens to that couple? They have zero debt. They're millionaires. I think if I remember, they made like $200,000 or $150,000 a year, something like that. They weren't making $500,000, but they weren't working. 40 grand. Okay, so they're somewhere kind of like that six figure, early six figure thing. So let's pretend. Let's just make them up. There's $150,000 a year. They have no payments in the world, and they're millionaires, and they got a half million already in their retirement account. What happens to their spending? Well, it doesn't stop. As a matter of fact, it probably increases. It's just responsible spending because now they actually have money. Sharon and I today are an extreme example of that. I mean, we're way down that road and we spend a lot more than we ever have in our lives. Actual dollars.

[Caller]

But isn't there way more people in the world that are in debt that would have to stop spending, stop going to restaurants, stop using?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but I mean, to start with, obviously we were talking about a hypothetical. But even if we could go with the hypothetical, there's no possible way we could get them all to do it at the same time, so. But if all of America stopped going to restaurants at one time, restaurants would go out of business. Your point is. Your point. I mean, we experienced that during COVID right? And all the servers got laid off and the restaurants closed. America stopped going to restaurants just for a different reason. It wasn't because I dictated it, it was because somebody else did. But that's the same thing. That's not good for restaurants. Okay, but that's not going to happen in the Ramsey world that you and I are talking about. It would happen gradually and there'd be some couples doing it now, and some of them are already out of debt and they're back going to restaurants again. Sharon and I went to a restaurant last night. Okay, so you don't never go to a restaurant again. It's just for a period of time while you're paying off your consumer debt in baby step two. And so if it. If we could talk enough people into working this plan, people would become wealthy, and wealthy people spend more money than poor people.

[John Deloney]

There'd be a change in the balance of power, though. That would probably be the biggest.

[Dave Ramsey]

I tell you who would be really bad for, though.

[John Deloney]

Banks.

[Dave Ramsey]

The banks.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

It'd be bad for colleges and cars and all that.

[John Deloney]

Well, colleges get their money because I go to College.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I'm gonna. But you're gonna. The difference is you're gonna be choosing the car differently and the car finance companies will be screwed.

[John Deloney]

That's what I'm saying. The balance of power changes because now the people have their power back because they have their own income.

[Dave Ramsey]

The only people that would be out of business would be debt people. But the rest of them, the rest of them would be doing great because the money would flow in the economy. Because what you're thinking is that all of a sudden everybody builds up all this wealth and they sit at home and watch Netflix. They don't. Sharon and I went out to dinner last night. Sharon and I just took a trip. Sharon and I bought her some golf clubs this week. I mean, we spend more now because we have a lot more now than we did when we were broke people. And so when you're broke people, you don't have any money to spend. Oh, and by the way, generosity goes way up when people have.

[John Deloney]

That's the part we need to camp out on. What would change there?

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, I was telling some guys, I was on a podcast this morning, I said if we could cut what we spend on pets in America by 10 to 20% and what we spend on Halloween by 10 to 20% and allocate all of that to hungry kids. There'd be no hungry kids.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

10, 10 to 20% of what you spend on Halloween, 10 to 20% of what YOU spend on your pet. Because it's billions and billions, hundreds of billions of dollars. It's crazy. We do spend way more on pets than Halloween, by the way. And I love pets. I have a dog that is my life. So I'm just saying, but like that dog better than most of you people. But the. But that, that distill. The point is it's out of control. And so, yeah, he's. He's got an interesting point. But the, the fact that he asked that question. Here's what's laying under that this banking financed to create spending that drives the economy. Dog chasing its tail thing has convinced people that it's the only way for the economy to prosper. And it's not true. The economy could prosper without financing it. Yeah, because I don't finance anything. And I am stimulating the economy, I can promise you.

[John Deloney]

And then it's not a wheel. It's just an ongoing thing. It doesn't have to do the peaks and valleys thing. It just.

[Dave Ramsey]

And my generosity. I give more than I in a year, than I made most years when I was broke. You know.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, I mean, it's just, you're in a different position. It's a different world. And that 37 year old couple, that's millionaires, they're not at where Sharon and I are, but they're not as old as us. I'm old. And so they're young. I mean, they got a long time to do this, but that couple can now travel, they can go out to eat, they can go down to the car dealer and write a check and buy a car. They can do anything you want to do, but they're paying cash for it. And they're all still purchases. And you actually, your purchasing actually increases because you've got some stinking money, you know, and it's live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. But hypothetically, if we could get everyone to stop going to restaurants at one time, you'd have Covid that's what would happen. And by the way, car dealers were not doing much better in restaurants during that time. And a whole bunch of other people, the only people prospering were the plexiglas people. But you know, and the people selling masks of all kinds and the people selling vaccines. Oh yeah, they made some money. Oh yeah, they made some money. Oh yes, they made some money. Oh, you need to look at that. It's so much money.

[John Deloney]

Plexiglass. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm talking about the vaccines.

[John Deloney]

Vaccines.

[Dave Ramsey]

Unbelievable. How many Zero zeros. And we just drove off and watched it happen. It's all good. So many zeros. Can I talk about how many zeros it is?

[John Deloney]

Say unbelievable again. That was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can I say unbelievable Number of zeros. Ramsay show question of the day is brought to you by why refi stuck with private student loans that are in default? Well, why Refi can reduce your payments and help you get control of your finances. Take the first step towards getting unstuck. Visit why refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[John Deloney]

Okay. Today's question comes from Margaret in California. She says, my husband and I are both in our late 60s and we owe $350,000 on our home. He's a manager at a car dealership. We have nothing in savings for retirement. He thinks he's just going to retire on Social Security and put the monthly funds toward the house payment. I only receive minimal Social Security. I've tried to get him to consider what he's going to actually live on, but he refuses to think about retirement. I'm trying to get him to maybe move to a cheaper state, but he doesn't. He won't discuss the idea. How can I convince him that we're not going to be okay? You know what? I think he knows you're not going to be okay. And I think that his response has been burying his head in the sand. If I. If I had to take a guess, because I don't. I don't think he's an idiot. You know what I mean? He probably can understand the math and he can probably see the writing on the wall. And I think there's two types of people. There's the people who see something impending and they kind of just seize up and it's like. And then, yeah, they do the ostrich, bury their head in the sand. And then I think there's folks like you who look and try to find solutions. I can get ahead of it. Maybe there's something I can do. And so I think, you know, your personalities are. Are doing this right now. You're right. You. You are the correct one. Margaret. There are some things that you need to look at doing it. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it might be that you just tell him, hey, I know you think that we're going to be okay. I don't see the math. Can you show me the math? Because I'm terrified. Help me with this. I mean, you manage a car dealership. Surely you can do the math for a house.

[John Deloney]

That's why I said I think you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Help me understand why you're thinking, why you're okay. Because I'm looking at it and I'm just terrified. Please don't let me be terrified. I'm your wife. And help me. And help me understand why you think we're okay. Because, I don't know, maybe you know something. I don't know, maybe you understand something I don't understand. Because it. But. But if you're right, if you have a payment on a $350,000 mortgage and two Social Security checks are all you're going to get, you're going to be selling the house or losing the house. One of the two.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, I mean, I think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are moving to a cheaper state either before or after the foreclosure.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. The average. I mean, the average payout on Social Security is between 1800 and 2000amonth right now. Yeah, like that. That is what it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

The two of you receiving Social Security won't pay the House payment?

[John Deloney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh. And then there's food and there's lights, there's water, there's insurance, there's taxes.

[John Deloney]

So maybe you. Then, Margaret, you can go the route that Dave said, and maybe in conjunction to that, maybe you've already gone on every dollar. And you said just, you know, I've been trying to get my head around this.

[Caller]

This.

[John Deloney]

I plugged in what my Social Security will be. I plugged in what yours will be. I plugged in all of our expenses, and here's what I'm seeing in the red.

[Dave Ramsey]

And help me understand what I don't see. Yeah. And that way, I'm terrified.

[John Deloney]

That way you're telling him the facts, but you're also asking for his point of view. And like I said before, if. Like you said, if he's a car dealership manager, he understands the math. I think it's just getting him to pull his head out of the sand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Shelby's in Atlanta. Hi, Shelby. How are you?

[Jade Washall]

Hi, Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

Thanks so much for taking the call. I have a question. So My husband makes $125,000 a year, and I made $40,000 last year, but I'm taking this year off. We're hoping to start a family soon. Currently, our house is valued at $330,000, and we have our emergency fund set up, and we don't have any credit card debt, and we are working on being debt free. We only owe $60,000 left, and so we've been.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the 60,000?

[Caller]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the 60,000 on.

[Jade Washall]

The $60,000 is how much we owe left on our mortgage. So I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, your mortgage.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Sorry. But we're getting close.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's great.

[Jade Washall]

And so we don't have any other debt debts tied up other than the mortgage. And my question is, currently, we don't have any credit card debt, but we still have a credit card open because we budget what we're planning to spend every month. We spend it on the credit card, and then we pay the credit card off every month. And the reason that we do is so that we can get, on average, from 50 to $100 a month in cash back. And we use that cash back as, like, our fun budget or things that maybe didn't quite fit the budget or just a little bit of flex in case there's something that we want to do that we didn't anticipate.

[John Deloney]

You could switch from national brand to store brand at the grocery store. And get 50 bucks.

[Jade Washall]

Yes, we do that already. So we really do live pretty frugally. But we try to give ourselves just a little bit of wiggle room.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me tell you what I just heard, okay? I heard of people that make 120,000 and 40,000. That's 160,000. When you were working, working, and you call me up and spent 10 minutes talking about how to make $600 a year, that's exhausting. $50 a month, you said.

[Jade Washall]

Yes, exhausting. My question was because it's passive and it's something that we could.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not passive, it's exhausting. You are burning so many of your creative calories and spending so much energy to feel like you beat a multi billion dollar company for $50. You're wasting your life for $50. If you want to, you can, but you ask me if I think you should. No. Good lord, no.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a lot you could do. You're spending a lot of brain calories for $50, and you're all proud of yourself. Like you did something. It's really weird. I mean. No, it's. Yeah. I mean, whoopee. You know, I mean. Okay, so here's the numbers, okay? On Discover Card, they give you 1% back, right? Okay, so if you want $1,000 on Discover card, you have to spend a hundred thousand dollars.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

A lot of money. So on what planet are we trading a hundred thousand for a thousand and calling this smart?

[John Deloney]

Well, there is.

[Dave Ramsey]

In her case. She's. She says it's money she's spending anyway.

[John Deloney]

Yes, but you can tell there's clearly a psychological connection there, because if you are the type of person who is going to chase that $50 that hard, you're also the type of person who's going to spend more to get $60.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we do know several pieces of research that when you get in that feedback loop where you're trying to get airline miles and you're trying to get points and you're trying to get this. It's called gamification.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a wonderful book by Michael Easter called the Scarcity Loop, and it talks about the psychology behind the credit card miles and the feedback. It's a feedback loop. It's like playing a video game. You're trying to, you know, they let you win enough times to keep you doing it. And it's hilarious that someone as smart and educated as Shelby is gets caught up and she's putting in this immense amount of effort towards getting $50.

[John Deloney]

Well, you have to. What?

[Dave Ramsey]

People forget while she's sitting on the couch hoping a baby comes.

[John Deloney]

But people forget, Dave. There's boardrooms and marketers and psychological. All of these people working to make.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure that she does this.

[John Deloney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So anyway, MIT said the most detailed study that we've seen and they said when you spend on credit cards, even if it's for things you usually would purchase in air quotes because that's not what happens. You spend 12 to 18% more.

[John Deloney]

And don't let it be a month where something cool is happening like you're going to go to a concert. Because in those cases, a lot of times they say that you could spend up to 100% more on things like concert tickets, tickets, vacation, airline tickets. Because it's an experience gamified.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've been gamified. And so. And so, Shelby, the other thing I would tell you is this again, we go back to the millionaire study because I want to actually study people who really have money, not people who have theories. Okay. And the millionaires, when we studied them, the number of millionaires that said I became a millionaire because I got cash back or I got airline miles on my credit card out of studying 10,167 of them, I became a millionaire because of that. Let me tell you how many said that. None. Zero. Nada. None. No one gets rich doing what you're doing. If you're not pregnant yet, why are you sitting at home?

[Advertisement Speaker]

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse Over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th and early bird prices start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets [e-mail] events.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Wash all number one best selling author Ramsey personality is my co host today. Thanks for hanging out with us. We're glad you're here. Daniel is with us in Portland, Oregon. Hi Daniel. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hey there, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, what's up?

[Caller]

Yeah, I feel as a 28 year old, you know, 30s are really coming at me fast. I was never really taught any kind of financial intelligence, if you will, growing up. And I'm really just struggling to come out from this constant paycheck to paycheck, never recovering in any real manner. Cycle.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old did you say you are?

[Caller]

28. 29 in December.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And what's your household income, Sir?

[Caller]

I make $65,000 a year, and I live with that house mate. We split rent.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

So your income is not. Not in a bad spot, especially with you having a. A roommate. Are you on a budget?

[Caller]

I did a budget pretty recently, just to kind of look at it again, and realistically, I should be seeing a. About an extra 2000, 1500 to $2000 a month, and it just evaporates away.

[John Deloney]

Well, it doesn't evaporate away. It may feel like it does, but it's going somewhere. So you did your budget. When you go back and look on what area that 1500, 2000 went towards, what was.

[Caller]

Always feels like it's, you know, I'm not going out and spending 500 on some big old thing, you know, or whatever. It's always just the little things here and there. I, you know, I budget 400amonth for groceries, and, you know, slowly over the course of the month turns into more like 5, 600. Or I plan out, you know, dates throughout the course of the month, or maybe 150 for the month, but it turns into more like 200, 200.

[John Deloney]

What's happening is you're just not sticking to your own plan. And that's the thing about the budget. Like, it's. It's a wonderful tool, but it's not a magic trick. You have to actually stick to it. So what I, you know, what I would tell you is likely the reason you may not be sticking to it is there's no clear why behind. Why is it important for me to stick to it? Maybe I can just do my own thing. So what's your goal? What are you trying to accomplish?

[Caller]

To, you know, to not be paycheck to paycheck anymore, to put together money for a down payment and stop having to rent.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so you want to buy something.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I need to say I need. I got a savings goal. Okay, that's good. All right, so let's get you on the everydollar budget. I will give you the premium version and get you started on it, and you get 14 days free, and I'll give it to you. Okay. And that'll get you going. Get the thing set up now. Here's what you're going to do. When I was a little kid, our brothers and sisters would always say, you're not the boss of me. You ever heard that?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, a lot growing up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. And that's the budget. You're the boss of the budget until you get it built. And once it's built out in every dollar and every dollar of your income, before the month begins, has now an assignment and a mission. You're the boss of it. You tell that money where it's going to go on that budget. And then once it', built, then it becomes the boss of you. And so if you have budgeted $150 for dates and somebody wants to go out and you've spent $150, we're not going out because I have a bigger goal. I'm going to save money and I'm going to be in control of this. And I hate this sense of spiraling and chaos when I don't control my life. And I'm going to control my life. And that is more valuable to me than going out after I've gone over the budget or you probably don't have enough budgeted for food, by the way, you need to raise your food budget. So if it's always $500, just make it $500. Let's just admit reality. Quit being aspirational with the budget. Let's just say, what are the facts?

[John Deloney]

Yeah, that's good you said that, Dave. I always say, and this is not just for you, for anybody listening, listening. A really, really good every dollar budget. When you do your budget, and it's, it's solid, it's three things. It's detailed, realistic, and flexible. It's got to be detailed. Means you're thinking about everything that you could spend money on, from groceries to grandma's birthday to your cell phone bill. Right? Everything. You're as detailed as possible. And then the realistic part is what Dave said, like, hey, you know, this has to be enough for me to actually eat on. Because if it's not, you're going to constantly go over that category. And that is, in turn, is going to tell you how, hey, I can't stick to a budget. I can't do this. And so you're creating this negative feedback loop. You need to stop that and actually be realistic on the amount. And then the flexible piece of it is there are times where you say, man, you know what? Oh, man, I forgot, you know, Amazon renewed and I forgot about that. Yeah. If you have to take from a Less important category to make that work. But the point is, you've got to be active about this every day. A lot of people set a budget and it's like, well, I set my budget it and that's it. And they think that that's done.

[Dave Ramsey]

It has to reset you. So the other way you can pretend these are mind tricks I would play on myself is I pretended like someone hired me for $100,000 to stick to the budget, and if I didn't stick to the budget, I was going to get fired.

[Caller]

I like that.

[John Deloney]

And if. And then that would cause you to check in with it every day. You'd be tracking every transaction. Right. Making sure.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And it sounds like you're more of the, I just close out my budget at the end of the month and whatever, you know, spilled milk.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then when I look back at it, it didn't work. But no, you got to check it like all the time and go, do I have the money for this? And so. And then that tells you, the budget tells you no, you stop. So if you're at 500 bucks and there's four days left and you're out of money for food, you go to the cabinet and you warm something up in one of those cans.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you stick to. You're doing. It becomes a game that I've got to get. I've got to tell this money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it feels like it's slipping through my fingers. And I. And the problem is that when I was listening to you earlier, the language you're using is the same language I used on myself. It's what got me riled up because I used to talk to myself that way. And I want you to talk to Daniel nicer. Okay? Daniel is not an undisciplined character. He's not an undisciplined doofus. Daniel actually just didn't have a system. Okay? And once Daniel gets a system in place, then Daniel's going to find out that he's actually a fairly disciplined, fairly mature guy that can do this stuff. But you're not an out of control four year old because I've been talking to you for five minutes. You're able to string sentences together. You're articulate, you're bright. There's no reason you can't do this, but you just kind of let it happen to you. And I want you to get on the other side of it and put your foot on the neck of this thing and stand on it.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you can do that. You can do that, can't you?

[Caller]

I can, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can, absolutely. So we're going to sign you up for everydollar. Jade's going to be doing a free webinar for every dollar on Monday. And we're gonna have Kelly sign you up for that, too. We're gonna put you in that and you can join her for the. It's got Q and A in it and she's gonna walk you through how to build out those budgets. And the rest of you can join that, too. It's a free webinar. Just go to ramseysolutions.com webinar get you right on there. And we do. We're doing one a week or two a week right now with the Ramsey personalities on how to do exactly what Daniel's trying to do. And Daniel, you're just like everybody else. We all had to learn this. You're not better, you're not worse. I think you can do this.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

And selling a home is a big deal, and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, Visit Ramsey Solutions RamseySolutions.com agent by or selling a home is a big deal and there's a lot of drama out there in the market about it. Right now. No one can buy real estate. It's too expensive, the rates are too high, all this stuff going on, it's crazy. Y' all listen. When you're looking at stuff like that, the way you cut through the drama is facts are your friends. It might be a fact that when you gather all the facts, you can't afford a house today. That might be the case. Might not be too. The facts are interest rates are setting rock solid. Still have not moved 5.95 on a 15 year. So under 6, barely for a 15 year fixed right now. And we tell people, never do more than a 15 year fixed. Okay? The median home prices have gone up slightly every month. Home prices are going up but slightly. They're not going down. There's no indication they're going to go down on the market today, there's 1,082,520 homes in America. That's the highest inventory since 2019, since before COVID And guess what? The demand is higher than the supply. There's more than a million 82,000 people looking at houses. And so what that tells us is the house prices are not going down, so they're not shooting up, but they're not going down. And interest rates are sitting real steady. So we're gonna see how this works. But I think we're gonna see this real estate market continue to run about like it's running right now, which is kind of lukewarm at best. It's definitely not white hot, and it's definitely not turned off. And in some kind of a recession, houses are selling, and people are buying houses, lots of them, at 6% and at free because they pay cash for them. All of that, lots of people still moving. The market is not frozen, but it is not dynamic, and it's certainly not white hot like it was right after Covid when people were getting 87 offers in a weekend. So that's your facts. If you want to learn more of Those, go to ramseysolutions.com market and we can connect you with Ramsey trusted real estate agent, if you're ready to do your stuff. And they'll give you facts which are handy. All right, Courtney's in South Carolina. Hi, Courtney. How are you?

[Jade Washall]

Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking the call. So I need to get your advice on this because I'm having a really hard time making this decision right now. I drive a 2007 Honda Odyssey with over 200,000 miles on it, and my mechanic is telling me it's time to find something else. My transmission is eventually going to go, and so my husband and I have been looking, and I just want to know if it's smart financially for us to do this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What's your net worth?

[Jade Washall]

Well, our home is worth a million dollars. We owe 159 on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is in your nest?

[Jade Washall]

We have, I think, a little over 400 in our retirement account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have any other debt other than your home?

[Jade Washall]

No, that's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How much cash do you have?

[Jade Washall]

I have if I combine the checking and Savings, we have 75,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what is it you're trying to purchase?

[Jade Washall]

So I myself would like peace of mind, and we haven't been on vacation for six years, and so I want something with a little lower miles, and it's something like a 2020 Odyssey with like 40 to 60,000 miles. And the prices for those are anywhere between 30 to 35,000. Just kind of making me sick.

[John Deloney]

What's your income? What do you guys make every year?

[Jade Washall]

So it depends with his bonuses between like 120 to 160.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not an unreasonable purchase. I get that it makes you sick, but keep in mind, you're driving a 25 year old car.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, almost.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you are. You're driving a 2000. It's 25. That's 25 years.

[Jade Washall]

2007.

[John Deloney]

Oh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you said a 2000.

[John Deloney]

It's still old.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's still old, but she's right. It's not 25 years old. It's 18 years old, but yeah, okay. All right. Still, it's a 20 year old car. Almost. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, it's just been a while. I mean, it blows my mind. Okay. When I pull up right now, I'm 64, and I get stuck in the past if I'm not careful, and I pull up and I see the average new car price in America right now is $48,700. I can't get my head around that. Yeah, I mean, that's the average. That means crappy stuff is selling for 40 grand new. Okay. And so I can't get. That blows my mind. I'm with you, Courtney, but it is the cost of doing business. So if you want a 2020 Odyssey, I suspect 30 is there. And that's a five year old car you're buying.

[Jade Washall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is there a dilemma that you want to spend more or less or it just makes you sick that it's 30?

[Jade Washall]

Well, the other option is to go with a 2015 for about 15,000, but over a hundred thousand miles.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't do that.

[Jade Washall]

And I want to take my kids on vacation.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't do that. What, do you take them on vacation now when you rent a car?

[Jade Washall]

No, we haven't gone on vacation because of the car. Well, no, we also. We also have dairy goats and things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then don't blame it on the car.

[Jade Washall]

Of it too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Blame it on Billy.

[Jade Washall]

Well, I do worry that we'll break down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, but that isn't why you stayed home. You stayed home because of Billy.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, maybe you said that.

[John Deloney]

When was the last time you guys had a vacation?

[Jade Washall]

What's that?

[John Deloney]

When was the last time you guys had a vacation?

[Jade Washall]

We took a vacation six years ago to go to the beach for one day to pick up a dog.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, that's not a vacation. Picking up a dog is not a vacation.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, I was gonna say, this is not really just about the car or the Odyssey. I think you just need to loosen the purse strings in life and because something tells me You. You guys don't do anything. You don't spend money on anything.

[Jade Washall]

We don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are your children?

[Jade Washall]

So My oldest is 15 and a half and my youngest is nine. We have four kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I appreciate your story. Thank you for sharing it with us. My advice after having done this for 34 years, is that you buy the 2020 and you book hotel rooms and get your butt to Florida.

[John Deloney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And tell somebody to come feed Billy goat, for God's sakes.

[Jade Washall]

Well, I actually just sold them because.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, thank you, Jesus. We can use some of that money. We can use the money from Billy for vacation. Then there we go, Billy. We'll be down there lifting a little margarita, saying, thank you, Billy. There we go in Margaritaville, folks.

[John Deloney]

Gotta live a little, Dave. Gotta loosen it up.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's so fun. So fun. I love you, Courtney. You're awesome. Thank you for calling in. That was so fun. Buy the car, kid. Yes, you can afford it. It's not out of line. It's hard for you to spend money because you don't spend much money.

[John Deloney]

They've done so well. Million dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not. The numbers you're giving us ratio wise are very reasonable. You're paying cash. It's less than half your annual income. You do need a car. No question about it. And we can tie it back to the other things, or not, but boy.

[John Deloney]

Oh, boy, oh, fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amir's in Washington, dc. Hey, Amir, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. I do appreciate it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can you? We help out.

[Caller]

Sure. So I'm in a bit of a pickle. I have a big choice in the coming weeks to make and it's in terms of moving out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

So, yeah, I am a 28 year old. I've been living at home for the past 15 months. I work through all the baby steps I'm on. Baby step four.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

Of all my debts, I make roughly about $70,000 a year as an account manager.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

I have $10,000 saved in a high yield savings account getting 4% interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

And your question is, should you move out?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

But yes.

[Caller]

There's two little kickers. There's two little kickers.

[Dave Ramsey]

What?

[Caller]

So number one, I decided to pursue my master's in finance so I can expand my career opportunities and my earnings. I just started earlier this year. I did not want to take out any loans because I just went home to pay off those undergraduate loans. I didn't want to take any advance degree loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

You shouldn't take out loans to get a master's.

[Caller]

Correct. So I am paying out of pocket now. I chose a very affordable university. I go to Kelley School of Business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

I pay $900 a month for the tuition for 9th of the year. I take a term off per year to reset, save some money and also just have a little bit more free time now I do. I looked into some companies that I would be applying to next year and they do offer tuition reimbursement program.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care. All of that doesn't change it. I'm still moving out. Now it's overtime.

[Advertisement Speaker]

Does having more money and less stress sound nice but feel impossible? Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it. You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out. From credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps. So if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get Breaking Free from broke [e-mail] store. That's ramseysolutions.com store.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jacob is in Wisconsin. Hey Jacob, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, I'm doing great. How about yourself?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I have two loans. One in auto loan and one a business loan. I'm just trying to figure out which one I should pay off or at least help to pay off. I have the money to pay off the auto loan, but I currently don't pay for it. Fiance does pay for that one and she drives it full time, insured and everything. And the business is able to pay for its own loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You bought your fiance a car?

[Caller]

Yes. The shorten it up. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's in your name?

[Caller]

It is in my name and her name.

[John Deloney]

Oh, who co signed? She. You. She co signed for you or you co signed for her?

[Caller]

I co signed for her.

[John Deloney]

Got it. Okay. When do you guys get married?

[Caller]

We're planning on getting married this July or this coming July. We had. We already have a daughter together and we're planning on having another one here very, very soon.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm confused. Next. Next year?

[John Deloney]

A year from now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now.

[Caller]

Yes, a year from now. Meaning that's the. That's the date that we have set.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And how much is the car loan?

[Caller]

The car loan was originally 15. She has left $14,700.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And the business loan is how much business loan is.

[Caller]

What I have left is $98,699.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the business has a hundred thousand in it.

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I thought you said the business.

[John Deloney]

Has enough just paying the payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's paying the payment? Is that what you mean?

[John Deloney]

What kind of business?

[Caller]

Making the payment? It's a. It's a demolition business.

[Dave Ramsey]

What kind of business loan is this? A credit card or a bank loan?

[Caller]

No, it's. It's. It's just a credit union loan for a startup. Since I started listening to you guys, I paid off $36,000 in credit card debt for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Okay. The business loan is not a business loan. The business is a personal loan. You sign for it personally to guarantee it. So under the law, it's a personal loan. They won't. They won't bother and sue the business if it doesn't get paid. They're going to suit you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So I'm gonna treat that like it's a business, like it's a personal loan of $98,000. And sounds like the business is doing well, though.

[Caller]

It is. It's not doing too shabby. I made $30,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the slow season, a month or a year.

[Caller]

I made $30,000. This is only my second year in. And during the slow season, I made $30,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much are you making a year on this business? Profit. Taxable, taxable income, not gross revenue.

[Caller]

I've. I've made 74,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, okay. All right.

[John Deloney]

And you said you have the 14,000 to pay off the auto loan. How much do you have in savings?

[Caller]

I do. I. In savings alone, I have 10,000 in the bank, and I have 15,000 in cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. All right. And you're what, 26?

[Caller]

26.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I guess. Good. Okay. Like, I've done this before. All right? You called for our help, and we want to help you because we care about you and we want you to win. And you're doing really good with the business stuff. You're doing really lousy at home. Listen, you have. You have a car and a kid and another kid in the oven. Quit waiting to get married. You need to go get married tomorrow. Y' all run around acting, doing everything like you're married, except being married. And you don't need to save up to get married. You've already got babies and cars and crap. So just go get married. If you want to have a party later, have a party later. I don't care. But right now, you need to get on the same page. And what tells me that this is weird and. And it should tell you that it's weird is you're acting like we're having babies together. We live together. We share the mustard in the refrigerator. But she has a car payment that I co signed for that tells me y' all are kind of one foot in the boat, one on the dock. So this lady needs more from you than you're giving her. You need to go get married tomorrow. And then we have a car payment that we need to pay off that my wife drives. And I would write a check right after the wedding and pay off that car. And I mean it, like one week. I'm gonna go get married now. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes, because all the research tells us that married people have an advantage in their wealth building and in their careers, in their business and in their parenting over people that are shacking up. Tons of research on that. I didn't just make this up, okay? It's not just an old guy with an opinion opinion. Although I'm am that too. But. But they. Yeah, so that's what I would do if I were in your shoes and I'd pay off that car. And then I started attacking that 98,000 like my hair was on fire. And get it paid off as fast as you can.

[John Deloney]

Well, does she have debt?

[Caller]

No, she doesn't have debt. She's currently going to school, but she's doing that with grants.

[John Deloney]

Grants.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good. Okay. I don't know, does that sound weird to you or pushy?

[Caller]

No, it doesn't at all. Good. It's the. There is other bits and pieces of information.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're. I'm gonna let you deal with those. I don't have to know your. All your. I don't want to go through. I don't go through your whole underwear drawer. But I'd rather. But, but I'm telling you, this is how I would see it because you guys have been trying. You like, got stuff. Everything's out of order, you know, and so let's get stuff back in the right order here and let's start acting like grownups instead of a couple of kids having sex. And let's just start having, you know, let's have a plan here. Let's implement this. And you can do that because you got a good business head. You got that moving, you know, let's just push forward and do all that and let's start building a real life, a holistic life. Husband, wife, kids, small business, debt free, making money, growing things. This is a whole. This thing's solid that I'm describing for you. Here instead of this fragmented, stitched together half butt stuff. And it's killing you, man. And it's good because it's. It's affecting the way you're thinking about this stuff, and it's keeping you from making clear decisions. So that's how I would. That's how I see it. And I think you. I think you'll have a huge advantage. I think you'll look back a year later and go, that old guy was right. I'm glad he got on me. So there we go. And the only reason I would ever get on you is because I like you and I want you to win. Okay? That's the only reason. If I don't like you, I'm not gonna bother with you. So that's it. Just keep that in mind. Open phones at Triple 8, 825-5225. So, Jay, there's a Dr. John DeLoney and I talked about this when we were on tour. There's a whole. That goes to Jacob. And some of you listening for some reason. It's something I've gotten on lately. I didn't even mean to, but I just did. There's a whole body of research that Deloney brought up from the psychological world. And I've seen world in a different way. And we've kind of put those two things together and started looking at it. It's the marriage advantage research material. So, like, for instance, in his world, he figured out that married men live seven to nine years longer than single men, including single guys shacked up.

[John Deloney]

Okay, that's interesting.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you have a life span advantage. Married ladies only live three to four years longer. But they do live longer. I don't know why guys get super advantage there. Deloney says it's called wives keep. Yeah, that's it. But Deloney says it's because wives keep guys from doing stupid stuff that kills them.

[John Deloney]

But, oh, man, that's funny.

[Dave Ramsey]

But anyway, aside from that. So the average net worth of someone in their mid-30s that is married is hundreds of thousands of dollars higher than a single or a single shacked up. Hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The average earning of a male that is married throughout his lifetime is 25% higher. Wow. Than a single male.

[John Deloney]

These all have something in common.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, it's the marriage advantage. It's the only thing we can correlate it to. We can't find any other variable to.

[John Deloney]

Adjust for research because now there's a purpose in what they're doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, I'm married. I got kids to Feed. I got to go to work, I guess. I don't know. And you go to work and act like you got to work instead of, thank God, it's Friday. Oh, God, it's Monday. When's the next happy hour? I don't know. I don't know what it is. But there's something like that that's driving this. And this actual data defeats this whole movement of shacking up. Because today in America, more people live together that are not married than people who are married. That's interesting. First time in history in the country. Our scripture of the day is 2nd Corinthians 8:11. Now finish the work so that your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it according to your means. Kyle Chandler said, opportunity does not knock. It presents itself when you beat down the door.

[John Deloney]

I know. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jen is in New Hampshire. Hey, Jen, what's up?

[Jade Washall]

Hi, Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Jade Washall]

So my question is, would it be responsible for our growing family to upgrade our starter home to a bigger house on the lake? And if so, would we absolutely have to sell our current house?

[John Deloney]

Depends on the money. Tell us more.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you got the money to pay cash for it and keep the current house?

[Jade Washall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then you would sell the current house.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, we have to sell the current house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You wouldn't. You wouldn't buy a rental house with cash, with debt. And so I'm not keeping a house that causes debt. So, okay, the current home will. The current home will sell for how much? The current home would sell for how much?

[Jade Washall]

It would sell for 500,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you owe on it?

[Jade Washall]

We owe 160.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. And so you got 340 equity and the. And the lake house is how much?

[Jade Washall]

800.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And do you have any other money to put down on the lake house other than your equity?

[Jade Washall]

Not at the moment.

[Caller]

We just.

[Jade Washall]

We just cash flow to cost. But our plan would be to save up 150, 20%.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then before you did this, jump.

[Caller]

Into the new house.

[Jade Washall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you'd have 500 to put down, which would make your mortgage now 300 rather than. It is currently 160.

[Jade Washall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 340 equity plus 150 cash saved is 500. You following me?

[Jade Washall]

Yep, I'm following.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And 800 minus 500 is 300. So you end up with a $300,000 mortgage instead of 160,000 doll. Doesn't sound too bad. What's your household income?

[Jade Washall]

Household income is 190 plus bonus.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you can do this. You can do this. But it's a 15 year fixed rate payment when you do it and you sell the other house and you save the 150. It makes sense. Yeah. How long is it going to take you to save the 150?

[Jade Washall]

I would say two and a half, three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What's going to happen to the 800,000 during that time?

[Jade Washall]

Time, yeah, that's. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But your house price will go up too, right?

[Jade Washall]

It will, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So that'll help. But. Yeah, so the numbers aren't going to end up being. The numbers aren't going to end up being exactly the same. The good news about the lake house is if there's an economic downturn, lake houses go down. Resort property is the worst real estate and the best real estate. So beach houses, mountain houses, and lake houses go through the roof when times are good, and they go through the floor when times are bad.

[Jade Washall]

Interesting. Okay, so we just kind of, you know, wait for our time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you got to have your timing right. Yeah. Because, I mean, I've got a lake house and I am ghastly aware of what it is worth. Crazy numbers. When things are hot, when the economy is hot, not summer, but I mean, and, and, and when things get really slow, I mean, it's like you can't give them away. Wow. Because they're extra houses for a lot of people.

[John Deloney]

It's not their main.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, you know, it's a vacation house. And so it's the first thing to go when times are bad. And the first thing that everybody wants, 26 people line up when times are good. And so it kind of follows the private jet market too, which is a different market, but I mean, same thing.

[John Deloney]

Makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Private jets are, you know, they're all over. They're volatile, but I mean, crazy depending on what's going on. So that kind of stuff. So anyway, good stuff. Good question. Maggie's in San Diego. Hey, Maggie, how are you?

[Jade Washall]

Hi. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Great. How can we help?

[Jade Washall]

Oh, my God, I'm such a big fan. Oh, my God. I'm so excited to be talking to you guys. Well, we are in baby step 3B and I just wanted to know your guys's thoughts about these down payment assistance programs and that they cover like closing costs and help put a down payment for you.

[John Deloney]

So it's saying that you're not paying the down payment, it's paying the down payment for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which means what is the. What are the. What are the obligations in return.

[Jade Washall]

So from what I got, the one that we're eligible for for. It seems like it's like a silent loan. And, you know, eventually you pay it once you either sold, sell the home, or you refinance and stuff like that. Or there's another one that I believe it just depends on the qualifications that it is forgiven after, like, a few certain amount of years.

[John Deloney]

I'm gonna say no right now, and here's why. You don't know what it is. And you can't commit to something if you don't know what it is. You know what I'm saying?

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have enough. You don't have enough information.

[Jade Washall]

There's a couple of them I know that we might be, like, eligible for, so we're just kind of looking into that. But I just haven't heard you guys talk about these programs and what you think about that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most of them have strings attached that make you wish you didn't do them.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I don't know that about yours, and neither do you. Okay, So I want to know exactly what the terms are. Silent loan scares me. That sounds like a trick, but. So I really want to understand that after five years, do they suddenly call it due? Is there an interest rate? That silent loan sits there and builds up over time. Can I pay it off early? No, you have to keep it forever. Like a pet. I don't know. They come up with bizarre things in some of these programs that make them very unappealing. When you understand actually what you're signing.

[John Deloney]

Up for, sometimes they're too good to be true. It's not to say that something good can't exist out there, but I would just be very careful. Because. Because. Just because something says it's going to help you and you qualify for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn'T mean that that's true.

[John Deloney]

That that's true. Exactly. So you really got to do your due diligence. Call back when you have the information.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Learn all about it. And make sure you learn all the trick bag where it is they're getting you, if they're getting you. So they're gonna get their money somewhere.

[John Deloney]

Everybody does.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what's happening. You know, I had a thing one time. I was doing a rehab back when we did real estate before I went broke. And I was doing a rehab on a historic house. And they gave us a $5,000 grant for this historic house, which was wonderful. And the only thing we had to do to qualify for the grant was that we had to rebuild the house. According to historical standards, which is what we did. No problem. And the front porch was 2ft off the ground.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it had no rest railing.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's two feet.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, normal human beings don't stumble off of that. That's fun. But, you know, in the world we live in with helmets for everything, who knows? So anyway, I. You know, the coach department comes up and says you have to put a rail around it or you can't get a use and occupancy permit. The Hysteric commission, I mean, the historic commission says if you put a rail around it, you have to pay the $5,000 back.

[John Deloney]

You're caught in the middle of there.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I'm like, hey, you two guys that work for the government, go over there and let's have y' all have your pissing match over there and figure it out. And then come back and tell me how I'm getting my $5,000. I don't care. I can put a rail around it or not, but I. But I'm not gonna. You know, this is between them, and this is the kind of crap you get. It's the exact same thing. You know, it's the same thing here you're gonna get. And you get caught in these things and, you know, you end up paying back threefold or something what it was. And because you put a rail. You know, that stuff had just dropped. That stuff. Oh, God. That's why I started calling them the Hysteric Commission, because they would come in in hysteria and look at this renovation we were doing. And it's like how you people are more trouble than you're worth. This is like more theory than it is actual fact. So what we need for you to do is not come on our property anymore and we'll just rebuild the house. Screw it. $5,000 ain't worth it, you know? And that's kind of what you end up with, with a down payment payment program sometimes.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is you're better off. Just save the down payment, buy the house, get a mortgage, and you don't have all this trick bag hanging around waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting for when they going to get you. Because that, you know, it's just. It's just government crap.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah. I'm just thinking about there might be something to that, you know, when you have the money to do something, if it goes on sale, it's like, oh, it's on sale. There's no desperation to do it versus if you can only do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It.

[John Deloney]

If it's on sale. If it's discounted, there's a little bit more desperation attached. You might not do your due diligence.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, make sure you got your down payment saved and then see if you want to do it. That's Jade's point. I like that. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of.

[Caller]

Peace, Christ Jesus, Sam.