Life Happens. Are You Going To Be Ready for It?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Life Happens. Are You Going To Be Ready for It?"

Release Date: April 3, 2025

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey and co-host Dr. John DeLoney delve into practical financial advice, addressing real-life dilemmas presented by callers. Titled "Life Happens. Are You Going To Be Ready for It?," the episode emphasizes the importance of proactive financial planning to navigate unexpected life events effectively. Below is a detailed summary of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn during the episode.

---

1. Jackson’s Financial Planning at 25

Timestamp: [00:47 – 03:47]

Caller: Jackson from Vancouver
Profile: 25-year-old heavy-duty mechanic earning ~$200,000 annually, debt-free but lacks a comprehensive financial plan.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey commends Jackson for his financial success at a young age, placing him in the top 5% of earners who proactively manage their finances.

  "You're way ahead of the game. You're going to happen to your money instead of it leaving and you having no idea where it went." [01:45]

• Emphasis on the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Dr. Stephen Covey, particularly the habit of being proactive in financial matters.

• Introduction to the EveryDollar app for budgeting, encouraging Jackson to assign every dollar a specific purpose to prevent unnecessary spending.

Conclusion: Jackson is encouraged to formalize his financial strategy using budgeting tools and maintain his proactive approach to sustain and grow his wealth.

---

2. John’s Vehicle Debt Management

Timestamp: [10:10 – 17:34]

Caller: John from Charlotte, North Carolina
Profile: Household income of $140,000 last year with significant debts on vehicles totaling $77,000 and a house mortgage of $246,000.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey recommends prioritizing debts by paying off smaller debts first to build momentum—a strategy known as the Debt Snowball Method.

  "Pay off your truck first because it's the smaller of the two debts." [14:31]

• Dr. John DeLoney suggests negotiating with car dealers to potentially increase the value of the wife's car to mitigate the negative equity.

• Strategies to aggressively pay down debts within 18 months by allocating substantial monthly payments ($4,000-$5,000).

Conclusion: John is advised to swiftly eliminate smaller debts to focus on the larger ones, utilizing any additional funds from recent income boosts to expedite debt freedom.

---

3. Sherry’s Life Insurance Dilemma

Timestamp: [25:07 – 30:30]

Caller: Sherry from Atlanta, Georgia
Profile: Approaching retirement age with existing universal and whole life insurance policies but substantial savings and assets.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey advises canceling unnecessary life insurance policies, especially when the caller’s financial situation allows her to be self-insured.

  "You are self-insured and you can cancel this policy." [27:13]

• Emphasis on paying off the mortgage immediately to reduce financial burdens in retirement.

• Encouragement to invest freed-up funds into retirement accounts once debts are cleared.

Conclusion: Sherry is guided to streamline her insurance portfolio, eliminate redundant policies, and prioritize debt repayment to enhance her financial security in retirement.

---

4. Glenn’s Contribution to Financial Literacy Education

Timestamp: [31:34 – 36:12]

Guest: Glenn from Moore, Oklahoma
Profile: High school teacher instructing the Ramsey financial literacy curriculum.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney applaud Glenn for his dedication to educating students on financial matters, highlighting the profound impact of financial literacy in schools.

• Glenn shares success stories of students implementing Ramsey’s principles to achieve financial stability.

Conclusion: Glenn’s efforts are recognized as pivotal in fostering financially responsible future generations, underscoring the show's commitment to widespread financial education.

---

5. Jessica’s Wage Garnishment Concern

Timestamp: [42:10 – 56:15]

Caller: Jessica from Richmond, Virginia
Profile: Single mother facing potential wage garnishment for $10,000 credit card debt incurred by an ex-husband.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey advises Jessica to contact the courthouse to understand the status of the judgment and explore settlement options, emphasizing that older debts often settle for a fraction of the original amount.

  "You can file an offer of settlement for $1,500 or $2,000 and have the debt resolved." [49:48]

• Dr. John DeLoney encourages seeking emotional support to overcome feelings of powerlessness and stresses the importance of facing financial challenges head-on.

Conclusion: Jessica is empowered to take actionable steps toward resolving her debt through negotiation and settlement, backed by emotional support to navigate the stress associated with financial hardships.

---

6. Katie’s Journey to Debt Freedom

Timestamp: [42:45 – 73:01]

Caller: Katie from Alexandria, Louisiana
Profile: Pediatric occupational therapy assistant who paid off $67,000 in debt over five years despite personal challenges, including a medical issue and a car accident.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney celebrate Katie’s perseverance, highlighting her achievement as a testament to the efficacy of Ramsey’s financial strategies.

  "If I can survive cancer, move through an adoption, cash flow, a bachelor's degree, and part of a grad school degree that I quit because I just decided I was tired of paying for it. I can do it through all of that, anybody can do it." [71:44]

• Katie shares her strategies, such as prioritizing debt repayment and maintaining a strict budget, which enabled her to eliminate significant debt while managing personal adversities.

Conclusion: Katie’s success story serves as an inspiring example of resilience and disciplined financial planning, reinforcing the show's message that determined individuals can overcome substantial debt obstacles.

---

7. Nikki’s Struggle with Student Loans

Timestamp: [63:04 – 81:53]

Caller: Nikki from St. Louis
Profile: Single mother with $260,000 in federal student loan debt, holding a Bachelor’s and Master’s degree in engineering, seeking advice on managing debt while balancing motherhood.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey emphasizes the necessity of employment to manage and eliminate debt, advising Nikki to seek higher-paying engineering positions rather than pursuing additional degrees.

  "You desperately need to make... you have to change your attitude about what can I add? How can I be enthusiastic? How can I add value to this organization?" [75:14]

• Dr. John DeLoney encourages Nikki to expand her job search within the engineering field to find roles that accommodate her responsibilities as a single mother.

• Nikki is advised to leverage her existing degrees to secure a substantial income, thereby accelerating her debt repayment.

Conclusion: Nikki is motivated to utilize her educational background to secure lucrative employment, manage her debt effectively, and maintain a balanced life as a single mother, exemplifying the principles of strategic financial management advocated by the show.

---

Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney provide actionable financial advice tailored to each caller’s unique circumstances. The overarching theme underscores the importance of proactive financial planning, disciplined budgeting, and the courage to confront and resolve financial challenges head-on. By sharing real-life stories and practical solutions, the episode reinforces the belief that with the right strategies and mindset, individuals can achieve financial stability and peace of mind, regardless of the hurdles they face.

---

For more resources and to learn how you can gain control of your finances, visit www.ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show. Where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John DeLoney, Ph.D. in counseling, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show, number one best selling author, he's my co host. Today Jackson's with us in Vancouver. Hi Jackson, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jackson]

Hi there. Thanks for having me on today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure man. What's up?

[Jackson]

Well, you know I, I'm a big fan of your guys show so I thought I'd give you a phone call. I've been making some pretty good money working up here. I work as a heavy duty mechanic and last year I made just shy of $200,000 a year and I'm debt free. But I don't have any sort of a financial plan and I feel like I make too much money to not have some sort of a plan. And I don't want to feel like a fool who squanders a fortune.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Very wise. How old are you?

[Jackson]

I'm 25 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Some of the guys you work with have never even had the thought that you've had. They spend their whole life working their butts off and thank God it's Friday. Oh God, it's got nothing to show for it. So you're very wise. You got a huge head start at 25. Congratulations. Just asking the question puts you in the top 5%, dude. So yeah, that's, that's kind of why.

[Jackson]

I'm trying to ask the question because I set a pretty high standard for myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not that high, but it's, I mean, but you're, you're way ahead of the game. You're way ahead of the game. So you know what you're finding is this and the way you pose the questions. Very wise. Dr. Stephen Covey wrote a book that was vastly popular for about 30 years. It was on the New York Times and on the bestseller list for years and years and years called the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. The number one habit of the seven was that highly effective people are proactive. They happen to things instead of it happening to them. And so that's the position of your question. You are now going to happen to your money instead of it leaving and you having no idea where it went. And John Maxwell used to say that a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went. And so instead of saying ready, fire, aim, we're gonna say ready, aim, fire. And so we're gonna write it down before the month begins where every dollar is going to go using the EveryDollar app, the world's best budgeting app. It's free for you to download and you know, give every dollar an assignment contract with yourself. If you have a spouse contract with your spouse. That this is, we're in agreement, this is what we're going to do with the money and then we're going to make the money. Do that. I'm often asked by reporters what's the number one mistake people make with money. And the answer, they think it's going to be credit cards or student loans or something. No, the answer is they're not intentional. And so we're gonna flip this for you and say you're gonna become a very intentional. And then that's gonna lead you to get out of debt, to save, to invest, to have the proper insurance in place. It's gonna lead you to make smart decisions. Cause you actually are paying attention instead of asleep at the wheel. So that's where we start. Cause right now you just throw the money in the account and then when it's empty, you quit spending.

[Jackson]

Yeah, I mean for the most part I don't really like, I get my paychecks and I pay my bills with it and then I don't really look at my account all that much. I just kind of know there's always a good chunk of change in there. And the kind of. It usually fluctuates between 15 and 25,000. Just kind of up and down from there. But it's not really going ahead from there because I'm kind of just living, you know, and I need to make some sort of a plan. I thought because I'm making way too much money again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's. You have the symptoms of someone who's getting ready to spend. You're saying the words of someone who's getting ready to change their life. You have a healthy disgust. You're like, I make too much money. I work too hard to be this broke. I'm dissatisfied. And so you're ready to change. That's perfect, man.

[Jackson]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Jackson, if you could close your eyes and imagine 30 year old Jackson, what would your life look like? Would you have a house? Would you have your own, your own business where you got two employees working for you, what would that look like?

[Jackson]

I guess if I were to close my eyes and dream about it, it'd probably be, yeah, a house and some sort of a business. I, I work as a mechanic, so some sort of a mobile Mechanic truck. That's kind of the dream for me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So here, here's. Most people have these things that float in and out of their heads. You, you're laying under a truck, turning wrenches. You got somebody's podcast on and maybe your drive to work, your drive home, you've got this, man, one day I want to have a thing. What's really cool is when somebody in your position, because most people we talk to are, man, they've got a. They've got a couple years ahead of them to just get to zero. Right. You're already, you're. You're ahead of the curve. I would love for you to spend some time and this sounds so cheesy, man. So just go with me. Really Picturing yourself at 30 within your own house and what that house would look like, and then get online and find out how much that house would cost. And then, as Dave says, you start being intentional about, man, going out with the boys on the weekend is fun and cool, but, dude, I have a picture of the house. So I'm not going to blow $11,000 at various bars this year. That 11 grand is going to go into an account because I want to have X dollars. So when I'm 30, I'm walking into my house that I own and nobody else owns it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What's it, what's it cost to buy and equip this truck?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So you're. You want to have a real firm picture and detail it out, get married.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get a picture of it and put it on the refrigerator. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You'll get married and that picture is going to change because y'all going to do one together. But you're, you're. That's where that intentionality, it gives you a map towards a thing you want to get to. Does that make sense?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. John's right. When you dream in hd, that's it. It's clear definition where you can see the sweat coming out of the pores of the players. You want to, you want to dream in great detail as to what it's going to look like, what it's going to feel like when you walk in that house. How, how you're. How are you going to stand when you walk in there? Your chest is going to be out, your shoulder is going to be back.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're going to be slumped over with your head down, and your buddies are.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Going to be coming over to your house to hang out, not paying some. Some bar owner to go into their facility.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's just a different thing or you and your wife are going to walk into this house when you're, when you're 30.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you're. It's a safe place for you, your kids, that kind of thing have you found.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So something that has come up a few times over the last couple years is people get this HD picture and they strangle it. And I'm starting to wonder if having that HD picture is step one and then step two is having the discipline or the patience to hold that pretty loosely too. You get what I'm saying?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh yeah. Because it's never going to be exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It'S never going to be exactly what it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, you don't want the house that you think you're.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You think of as a 25 year old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, because, you know, they don't make them like they used to. Thank God.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, you don't want the microwave from 1972.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You want the one from today.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right, right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't want the toaster oven from 1972. You want the steam oven from today. Right. You know, whatever it is you don't want. You know, skylights used to be real popular and then we found out they were pretty cheesy and they leak and so water people don't want to. Yeah, waterbeds were cool.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I found out someone on our team still has a waterbed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't, don't, don't say.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm not going to say their name.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't, don't, don't. Shame, don't shame them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They should be ashamed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, but like it's. Get this real clear picture and get a path towards it and then hold it pretty loosely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And change it. So. Yeah. You know, so in other words, I, in. I, I'll give you an example of that. That's very cool. So when I was 17, I saw the first time I saw that little two seater Mercedes, that little hot hot rod, you know, And I saw one the other day. I'm glad I never. Yeah, but you know what, what that meant was though, I wanted a really cool, nice car.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I'm a car guy. Yeah. And today I drive a really nice, cool two seater cars. One of my cars.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

A couple of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, you know, but that, but it wasn't, it's not that car.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not that car.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not even a Mercedes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it's the direction. Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But that, yeah. So it, it changes. Thank God they don't make them like they used to. Thank God. This is the Ramsey show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options. And they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can, too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. John's in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, John. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[John]

Thank you for having me. I hope you're doing well.

[Dave Ramsey]

I am. How about you?

[John]

I'm doing better, been worse, but it's going in the right direction.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help today?

[John]

I was trying to get some advice. So I don't know if it'd be better to pay off the debt on my truck or pay down the negative equity on my wife's vehicle so that we can get her into a different vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What do you owe on your truck?

[John]

I owe 20,000 on my truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's it worth?

[John]

27.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. And what's your wife's car worth?

[John]

32.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you owe on it?

[John]

57.

[Dave Ramsey]

How in the heck? Yeah, you must have rolled negative equity from the last bad deal into it.

[John]

A couple of the last bad deals.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. We've been stacking them and we stacked them on her car. Okay. Stupid. It's layers of stupid. Okay. Wow.

[John]

We've not been very good stewards of what we've been given.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you guys make? What's your household income?

[John]

We've made about 140 last year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what other debts have you got?

[John]

So we owe 246,000 on our house and then we owe $1,800 on my truck's bed cover. And then there's just the two vehicles. That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, obviously the 1800, you pay that off immediately. Okay, yeah, I'm gonna pay that off in next month, actually next month's budget. Okay. And. All right, and then let's see, we've got $77,000 in car debt.

[John]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can you, can you just sell your truck, take 5,000 of that seven and go buy a $5,000 get around car?

[John]

So actually I sold my other truck. This, this is the better end of it. I actually had a much more expensive truck and bought this truck to downgrade.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but you're not all the way at the bottom.

[John]

I actually cleared up like $16,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you still owe 20 on it, right?

[John]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's where we're like, here's a rule of thumb, 77 out of 140. If I like the cars and I'm willing to fight to keep them, the rule of thumb that we use mathematically is this, Can I be debt free, everything but the house in two years without selling a car? And the answer to that question is yes, you can. Okay, so you can pay off $77,000, making 140 in two years. Pretty easy. That's only 35,000, 38,000 a year. Okay, so that's pretty doable. Matter of fact, you ought to do it in about 18 months and knock it out really, really, really, really, really fast. So then the question you asked was, which one do we pay off first? You pay off your truck first because it's the smaller of the two debts. If you're trying to get rid of her car, you're 20,000 versus 20,000 then. Yeah, 25,000 versus 20,000. Are you sure your 32 valuation is correct?

[John]

It is. We went to six different dealerships.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what they offered you? That's what they offered you.

[John]

The best one offered us 32.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's not a retail. That's. That's a wholesale trade in value.

[John]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That means you could private Sale that for 37.

[John]

Probably. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's the number. I mean, no, dealers don't pay retail. They buy it at trade in because they're going to sell it at retail. So it doesn't matter. Is the answer to your question which one you do. You've got to do both of them in the next 18 months. And so $57,000. I'm sorry. Yeah, $77,000, let's call it $80,000 in a year. And a half. Okay. And so that's what I want to do. And then I'm just going to divide that out and I'm going to get with it. And so that's going to sound like 4,000, $5,000 a month at these things.

[John]

Well, the thing is, we actually just came into some pretty good money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, bury the lead.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The lead with that one, homie. What'd you come into?

[John]

I'm sorry. Well, so when I sold my tr, all my warranties back from the other dealerships, we got about $6,000 from them. And then my wife started a new job and she got a sign on bonus of $12,000. She got half of it just now. So we have.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, pay off your truck roughly today. Pay off your truck.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You got 30 in the bank right now?

[John]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Pay off.

[John]

My wife gets paid.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Pay off your truck today.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And pay off the 1800. And then let's start attacking her car with everything in the budget.

[John]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Take your savings all the way down to $1,000, which is your baby step one. Baby step two is pay off all debts, smallest to largest, except the house. But you only have one debt left after tomorrow. So we're going to pay off your stuff and then you're stuck with her car. And here's what I want you to do. Okay, here's what I do in these situations. And so when I do stuff like this. And every time you write a huge check towards $57,000 on her car. And you need to do this in well under a year, okay? So you need to be putting 5,000 bucks a month on her car because you don't have your car payment anymore after tomorrow. Every time you send a check to $5,000 on that, I want you to cuss yourself under your breath.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was going to say hit yourself in the face, but Dave's is probably.

[Dave Ramsey]

Safer because what I do is every time, because every time I used to write on a check in the four column, stupid tax. Yeah, I'm paying stupid tax right here because I did a stupid thing. And by the time you finish paying off this car, you'll be so pissed off you will never do this again. That's what I want. That's how I do it to myself. It's not destroying my identity. And I'm not shaming myself or condemning myself. It's. I want to learn this lesson so it never happens again. So the next time a car dealer walks towards you, you know, he could get hurt. I mean, it's just like we're not. Get away from me. Because you don't do well on car lots. I can tell.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. You've gotten. Gotten beat up, Dave. I actually love that. I love that. And because you'll do it with a smile on your face. But it's a.

[Dave Ramsey]

You.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You are taking a moment to sound. Woo woo. You are taking a mindful moment to absorb the consequence of you not making good choices. And that's important. It. It keeps you from doing it again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. We're trying to break the cycle. Re. Let's put some new grooves in the brain patterns in the neuroscience here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You got $20,000 of dead money that should hurt every. For four months when you write $5,000 checks.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a stack of three bad car deals stacked on top of each other. So, yeah. Enjoy that ride out because it's going to be your last one. In other words, that's what I want you to do. And. Yeah, just. And I'm not picking on you. I have done dumber things than you've done. I'm just saying learn the lesson if you gotta. If you're gonna get those scars, if you're gonna get the bruises, at least learn the lesson.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Permanently. And so, you know, we used to. Somebody would call and go, you know, I've messed up my credit. I was always say. Good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Keeps you from getting more. Yeah. Now and you're only 23. You can learn your. You've learned you got the whole rest of your life to live without worrying about that one less thing. As Forrest Gump used to say.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dave, can we just. Just say this out loud? Rolling negative equity is in the like. I can't think of a rolling negative equity on a depreciating asset. I can't think of a. Of a dumber way to set money on fire in your house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, and that's not picking on John. It's all of us that have done that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not just poking on him, but the. The thought that that's an option.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's just madhouse. And what it is, it's just stacking stupid.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, we got stacks of stupid here. Three deep. And. Yeah. And here's the thing. Overall, the whole thing of car payments falls in that category.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the largest item in America that we buy that goes down in value. The only thing we buy that's larger is a home. I mean, 98% of people anyway. Right. And we buy a 40,000, a $50,000 car, and it loses 60 to 70% of its value in the first four years. And so you're setting money on fire when you buy a new car to start with. That's if you pay cash for it. But let's go ahead and finance it so that we're upside down while it's burning to the ground. And let's just make sure we pay some interest. Or worse than that, let's lease it. The most expensive way to possibly operate a vehicle.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then the brakes squeak and the dealer says, oh, you should. I can just put you in a new one. Yeah, if you just give me this one, we'll roll it. We'll. Yeah, man, it's getting a mess.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've always got a new to have a new car, except for those months when I was driving that car and it was used. But yeah, golly, the things we say. Yeah. Don't buy brand new cars unless you have a net worth of a million dollars or more. And don't buy cars unless you can pay cash for them. And they should not. All the things that you own with motors and wheels should not total more than half your annual income. You have too much tied up in things going the wrong way. You're going to be broke people your whole life.

[Sherry]

I hate to admit this, but I don't always eat right. I know I need to eat more fruits and veggies, but sometimes I just have to pound some chips because they taste so good. That's why I love my field of Greens. It helps me eat healthy when I don't have much time. And each fruit and vegetable in field of Greens was doctor selected for a specific health benefit. Heart, lungs, kidney, metabolism, even healthy weight. And folks, I ain't getting any younger. It's super easy to mix with water. And here is the great part of it. I thought it might taste like grass, but it tastes great. And only field of Greens makes this promise. Your doctor will notice your improved health or your money back. So go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsey for 20% off your first order. That's fieldofgreens.com Ramsey to save 20% on your first order, let me tell you.

[Dave Ramsey]

The God's gonna cut you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's Holy Week in Jerusalem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Crowds welcome Jesus as king. Rebellion is in the air. Jesus operates outside our jurisdiction. Rome will descend on us all. But instead of taking the throne, Jesus turns the tables. My house should be called the house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of Prayer, but you make it a den of thieves. The world will never be the same. Now in theaters, the Chosen Last Supper. Get your tickets now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Drew is in Tupelo, Mississippi. Hi, Drew, how are you doing?

[John]

Well, Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[John]

So my wife and I were wondering if I should stop investing 10% into my 401k and continue to save in order to get close to the 20% down payment on a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. We call that baby step 3b3 is your emergency fund fully funded? We're not touching that. Four is putting 15% baby step four of your income into retirement. You're currently putting in 10. So sometimes people, before they start baby step four, putting 15% away, don't start it for a short period of time and use that cash like you're talking about to build up the down payment or they put in less in their 401k and use the difference temporarily for one or two years to save up the down payment. So the answer to your question is yes. But as soon as you get that down payment in place, baby step four kicks in and it's 15% of your household income going into retirement at that point.

[John]

Okay. She's currently in vet school. So we have the, we're the only. I'm the only line of income right now. I'm making 83,000 a year and we've got 70,000 in savings, 8800 and 401k. And I've got 35k set aside for emergency funds. So we were looking in our area, the houses we were going to buy were around $300,000 and I was basing that off of being able to put down 20% which would be 60k. And once she starts her job, we should be close to 200,000. Do you think that's reasonable?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, because you'll knock that little bitty debt out real fast and have a paid for house.

[John]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Once she starts. Right. Once she graduate next May.

[John]

So we're looking to buy as soon as she graduates.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's her, what's her practice plan? Is she going to join a local practice or does she know she's going.

[John]

To work for between five to eight years and then open up her own business and become a business owner?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but has she got a place to do that?

[John]

Yes, yes. She's had job offers anywhere from 100 to 120 with $75,000 signing bonus.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's pretty standard for vets. Yeah. And she'll be making 200 in five years.

[John]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean that's, that's a great field. So good for her. Good for you. Well done. Yeah. And if so, if you're buying a $300,000 house. You're putting down 60, that's 240. And then you start making 200 and that's your only debt. Man, you're gonna knock that out pretty quick. Agreed.

[John]

Now I hope so. That's the plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And then, you know, save up and pay cash and move up in house later. Once, Once you're making 3 or 400k in the household and you got no debt on that house, you can sell that house and for 500 by then put some money with it and buy a million dollar house, you'll be able to do that. That's going to be your future out there. 10 years. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you pay that house off real fast. Drew, when she gets done. The biggest thing I see when people graduate with their big graduate degrees, whether it's an MD or a nurse practitioner or vet, is their colleagues all drive really fancy cars and they all have huge houses that they go to at Christmas. And you start thinking, am I doing something wrong? We need to get a different house or a bigger house. If y'all can stay in that $300,000 house and pay it off in a year and a half and she starts socking away that house payment for the practice, the purchase of a practice in eight years or her own metal building that she's going to turn into a shop, man, then y'all win. What I see vets do is they go and they get a big house and then they borrow a million dollars to buy into a practice or to start their own. And then are they're just up to their eyes and ears in in debt. And so man, you guys have a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Chance to buy a 95000 dually because they have a large animal practice.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So you can get out over your skis on this or dude, you can look up in 10 years, have a paid for nice house, a paid for practice and you are just in gravy train.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because you don't care what anybody else thinks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're on track, dude. You're really thinking this through. You've done a great job by the way. Yeah. You're way ahead of the curve already. And then your questions are excellent.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And cheers to, to cash flow and a vet degree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That puts you in the rare air, my brother. That's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Sherry's in Atlanta. Hi, Sherry. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jessica]

Hi. Hi. I had a question. My husband and I are both getting closer to retirement. I'm 62, he's 67. We have two small insurance policies. I was thinking about cashing in. Mine is a universal life insur policy. It's the death benefit is 66,000 and if I cashed it in, it's like 15,000. His is a whole life policy. If he cashes it in, it's like $10,000. And the death benefit is 14,000. They both had very low monthly premiums. Mine's like $25 a month and his is $14 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, because you don't have any insurance, but. So that's why you don't have any premiums. The. What's your nest egg?

[Jessica]

Well, we got a late start or he did. He was a. His plan was the rapture plan. I'm the nerd and I've saved about 800,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, he was going to leave you behind. Okay, so you were smart. You got 800 grand saved.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good job. He married well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is your house your, Is your house paid off? We owe about 15,000, 16,000. You got that in checking?

[Jessica]

Yes, we do. I have about 60,000 in savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Pay it today.

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And do you need life insurance if he dies?

[Jessica]

I've got just term life insurance through.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your house is worth what your house is worth what about.

[Jessica]

About 550?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you got a million dollars saved. Almost. Okay, so you got a million and a half dollar net Worth. You're 61 years old. He's 67. If he dies today, can you make it without the $14,000 policy? Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You've crushed it, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

You follow me? Excellent job. Okay, so that means you are self insured and you can cancel this policy. You've got the one through work that's a little extra. Is that on you or him?

[Jessica]

The 600 through work is me. He's got one that is about 250, but his expires when he turns 70. Mine expires when I quit work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. Either way, if they expire, you're fine. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't cancel because.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you don't need to cancel them. They're free. Right. The ones at work.

[Jessica]

No, I know the one. I paid a supplemental one. It's like, I don't know, $125 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just some term insurance. Some art at work. Okay. Yeah. Yes. You have enough insurance and enough assets to care for you without these two policies. Is that a true statement? Yes, that's these two little policies.

[Jessica]

Oh, the little policies.

[Dave Ramsey]

The little ones you called me about. If they disappear, if you don't get that money, you're just fine. You're not even going to notice. Yeah, that was didn't sound convincing for my kid like 66. Your kids have $800,000 and a five.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Half a million dollar house.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't. You don't need 66,000 from a rip off whole life company. No, I cancel both of these immediately because you are easily under control without them.

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And pay off the house today anyway.

[Jessica]

And then if I paid off the house, do you think the monthly house payment that we're making, should I just go ahead and take that amount every month and start piling it in my 401k?

[Dave Ramsey]

Why not? Wouldn't hurt a thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sherry, will you. Will you make me a promise?

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

My mom's a little bit older than you, but I'm going to pretend you're my mom for a second. Will you do me a favor?

[Jessica]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Will you pay your house off today and cash out both of those policies and take you in that rapture husband of yours out on a vacation or at least a real fancy fancy dinner?

[Jessica]

Well, we're planning to do our like our last big whoopty before we retire or he retires here. We're doing like a Iceland Norway.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh good.

[Katie]

I like that.

[Jessica]

Coming up in May.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That makes me happy for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

While you're there, buy a ridiculous bottle of wine.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're millionaires, kiddo. You did it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You've been white knuckling this thing for.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've been holding so tight and you're sweating over a $14,000 policy. Cancel that. Pay off your house today. Wow, that's so cool. Good for you guys. You're heroes, man. I love America.

[Sherry]

For free tools and resources to help you reach your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com realestate or click the link in the show notes.

[Nikki]

There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting. But you don't want to do it forever. Because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner. You can rely on Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your Pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership [e-mail] that's churchillmortgage.com this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is a paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org equal housing lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027.

[Dave Ramsey]

Glenn is with us in Moore, Oklahoma. He is one of the many teachers across America teaching Ramsey's foundations and personal finance to high schoolers. So we wanted to have him on and talk about that a minute. Hey, Glenn, thanks for doing that, man.

[Glenn]

Hey, you're welcome. I enjoy what I do. And it's all because of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no, I mean, you're the one in the classroom dealing with all this. It's pretty cool. So you're in Moore, Oklahoma. Is it Moore High School then?

[Glenn]

Yes, it is. It's Moore High School.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where is more in Oklahoma?

[Glenn]

Right. South of Oklahoma city by about 18, 20 miles.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Glenn]

We're literally a part of Oklahoma City.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got you. Okay, well we were a little bit east of there in Ada the other day for a funeral. Okay.

[Glenn]

Oh wow, that's pretty close.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Right in that. Right in the neighborhood there. Yeah. So how many students are enrolled in the high school?

[Glenn]

2600.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's a big school. Alright, cool. How many in your class?

[Glenn]

I teach two section or two sessions of your class right now and then I teach three other classes, but right now I have 25 a class. So I got 50 kids in total with doing the foundations class.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Thank you for doing that, man. We really appreciate it. How long you been doing that?

[Glenn]

I've been teaching financial literacy for 13 years and with yours the last three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Glenn]

And I won't, and I won't teach it any other way besides your way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Well, thank you. Thank you. So how much do the kids challenge you like, hey, Mr. So and so, do you really do this?

[Glenn]

They ask me all the time and I always tell them, I said, well, I was just like Dave, I was, I was once, you know, made my way. Then I had to file bankruptcy and I learned the hard way and then come back out and then I can be that person that can give the real truth and the honest answers to the kids. And that's the only way I believe. Teaching.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you're teaching, the thing we always hear, and I bet you've heard it as well, is that the kids like the class because it's something they can actually realize they're going to use the Pythagorean theorem? Maybe not, but definitely. Knowing how to balance a checkbook for sure, 100%.

[Glenn]

And that's, that's kind of what I tell them. I said, the most relevant class they'll ever take in high school, because every day they'll deal with money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Glenn, how much do you have to deal with parents who challenge you on a credit card deal or a car lease or something like that?

[Glenn]

I don't have any of any challenges like that, but I do challenge my students with that. And, you know, because I asked for insight from the kids, and when we talk and stuff like that, then there's not, there's. There's. There's only when we do a parent teacher conference that parents come in and then when we sit down, we start talking, that they find out exactly what we're talking about. Because I open up everything to them. I show them everything that we do in the class, and they're like, oh, my gosh, I wish we would have had this when we were in high school.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I said, exactly what do you would like? So whenever I see politicians or even me and my team, we get in a room and we're talking about what quote, unquote, these kids these days are dealing with. You're in there every day when it comes to money. What are these high school kids like? Obviously, they don't know about credit scores, they don't know about debt, they don't know about that kind of stuff. But what do you see them really worrying about?

[Glenn]

Food and shelter. I mean, that's the biggest things. I mean, I try to talk to them about cars, but, you know, with a school of 2,600 kids, we are, you know, pretty, pretty large school. And a lot of kids just worry about having a job to help their families out get by. Yeah, they bring to me their employers. You know, they'll try to bring me a W4 and tax information to help them fill it out, you know, to try to get them a resume, you know, built anything like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's amazing. And, and Glenn and Dave. Yeah. We continue to hear that, that there's all of this rhetoric about all this other stuff going on in the average American in their high school kids, who, by the way, if you're a parent of high schoolers, they're absorbing everything, is, hey, how are we going to buy eggs? Right? How are we gonna. How are we gonna buy groceries? And so, man, I'm so grateful that you're there walking alongside them. That's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's beautiful, man. Thank you so much for doing this. We really appreciate it. And we got a sponsor, First United bank and Trust apparently bought the curriculum and donated it to the school, right?

[Glenn]

Yes, sir. We are very honored to have that done for us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that makes a big difference as well since we've got lots of local businesses all around the US that step up and buy the foundations for foundations and personal finance for the local school. And that helps a teacher like Glenn be able to teach this to 100 students a year, three years. So you've got some graduates out there in the wild that have been through our stuff. You hear back from any of them?

[Glenn]

Yes, and a lot of them come back. And you know, the first thing I always talk about, of course is income, but I talk about the investing aspect. If they have a savings account open up a mutual fund, you know, like you talk about. And then kids take their, take their money out of a savings account because it's drawing nothing and you're just wasting it. And kids will come back and be like, hey, Mr. Perrett, I'm so happy that I had your class, that I invested this money and I'm, you know, not having to pay for, you know, things outside right now because I've got grants and scholarships that you talked about. The easy way to pay for school, you know, Oklahoma promise. They went through all the things that we try to cover in class and get across to them and they come back and I'm just amazed with the, with the knowledge that some of these kids come back with and the, you know, they're, they're blessing basically coming back. I mean, because that's what it is to me is it's a blessing that I'm able to teach this and get this out to the students. And then they in turn come back and let me know that they're being successful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, I'm proud of you, man. You're a hero. I remember high school distinctly that there were only two categories of teachers. Those that mailed it in and everybody couldn't stand them. And the teachers that really gave a crap and were all up in the kids lives and helping us and helping us move to the next level. And you're that guy. You're the one that they'll remember the rest of their lives. I can name them still, and it was 45 years ago, I can name you exactly who was there that made a difference. And I strangely have forgotten the other ones. But yeah, the ones like you, they're embedded into our psyche because that's the, the power of being a teacher for, for an adolescent. Absolutely fabulous. Thank you, sir. We appreciate you so much. For any of you teachers listening, you can enter the Ramsey Teacher Appreciation Giveaway. It's free to enter, no purchases necessary. One teacher is going to win a $5,000 vacation because we love teachers. And two more teachers are going to win a $3,000 vacation each. Go to ramseysolutions.comteachertoenter. april is national Financial Literacy Month, and we celebrate that by celebrating teachers and highlighting men and women like Glenn in the classroom. And just to stop and say, hey, we appreciate you. We appreciate the fact that our stuff's being taught and there's no other way it would get taught. Changing gears. Let's face it, our money and relationships in America are out of whack. Dr. John DeLoney to my right, and I will be in six cities coming up, starting in about two weeks. We're going to be in Louisville, Kentucky, April 21st, doing live events. And you're going to pick the subjects in the audience before we get up there in the 30 minutes before the curtain goes up, we're going to put a list of stuff out that John can talk. I could talk, or we can talk together. You're going to pick them and then we're going to do them ad hoc. We're going to throw it together and do a show that night. So none of these shows will be alike. It's going to be very fun, very interesting. Louisville, Kentucky, April 21, Durham, April 23, Atlanta, April 25. That's Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Two weeks later, Monday, Wednesday and Friday is Phoenix, May 5, Fort Worth, May 7, Kansas City, May 9. You can get your tickets. They're not sold out, but they're getting close. Go to ramseysolutions.com tour or click the show notes on YouTube or podcast. Make sure you line up John. That's going to be really fun.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can be wild in the streets, man, that last planning meeting we had, I left. I left pretty excited.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Be a fun show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you and I both like making stuff up on the fly, so. As opposed to following the rules. But yeah, that's. And that's what we're going to do. It's not. Not, I mean, it's not made up. But I'm saying the. We're not coming in and talking at you. We're saying, what do you want to learn about?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And whatever you want to learn about tonight, we'll teach you. And it's going to be very interactive and a high, high experience process that's different than maybe you've ever been to. So I'm looking forward to it. I think it's going to be a lot of fun. So make sure you get your tickets@ramsey solutions.com. get signed up while you can.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, you've heard me say it a thousand times and I'm going to keep saying it. You're worth being well. And listen, therapy can help. I see a therapist and let's be honest, a lot of you should too. But let's be real. Taking that first step to see a therapist can feel overwhelming. Maybe it's the time. Maybe you have some preconceived notions about therapy, maybe it's the cost. But we spend money on gym memberships, organic groceries, essential oils, Little League practices, tracker watches. But for some reason, when it comes to our mental and emotional well being, we hesitate. Listen, your mental and emotional health are just as important as your physical health. And the good news, Better help makes therapy more affordable and convenient than ever. Since it's online, you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. No waiting rooms, no long commutes and no six month waiting lists. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. Listen, your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get started. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com DeLoney live from.

[Dave Ramsey]

The headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, PhD in counseling, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show, very popular show on the Ramsey Network. He's my co host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money. The phone number is, call-8825-5225. Jessica is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi Jessica. How are you?

[Jessica]

Hi Dave. Hi John. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our pleasure. What's up?

[Jessica]

I just found out recently that I am scheduled to go to court in May because Bank of America wants to garnish my paycheck and I just don't know what to do. I can't afford to have 25% of my paycheck garnished every two weeks. I don't know if there's anything I can do to prevent it or I don't know where to go from here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What do you owe bank of America?

[Jessica]

My ex husband ran up a credit card years ago. It's about $10,000. A little less than $10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how long has it been since you paid them?

[Jessica]

Oh, years. Years.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many years?

[Jessica]

Like, almost. It's like eight or nine years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, that's wonderful. Okay, and so this has your name on the credit card and your ex husband's name on the credit card.

[Jessica]

His name is not on the credit card. The credit card is only in my name.

[Dave Ramsey]

The divorce decree require he pay any of it?

[Jessica]

No, we. Everybody just got their own debt in their own name in the divorce.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, except that his debt has got your name on it, but other than that. Yeah, okay.

[Jessica]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Jessica]

1700 every two weeks. Take home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how many kids have you got?

[Jessica]

Three.

[Dave Ramsey]

What ages?

[Jessica]

Two are older. One is elementary school age.

[Dave Ramsey]

Older, as in over 20. And they're not your problem?

[Jessica]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well.

[Jessica]

Well, technically, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, technically, they're not your problem.

[Jessica]

One still lives at home, but he's over 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And he needs a job and needs to be buying his own stuff. Yeah. Okay, so 1700. What do you do for a living?

[Jessica]

Broad. Broad description and social work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And I'm one elementary school. You got any family in the area?

[Jessica]

None to speak after, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm guessing you have no money.

[Jessica]

Just the $1,000 emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How much other debt do you have?

[Jessica]

I owe my dad about $6,000 for a car. I have about $2,500 in collections in medical debt, and about four separate student loans that total about $26,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

When did you get divorced?

[Jessica]

The divorce was finalized a few years ago. I don't Even remember, like 2022 or something like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, now, so they have sued you and asked you to come to court. Has there already been a court date prior to this one?

[Jessica]

It was years ago. It was. When was years ago? I don't remember when it was, but it was a really long time ago. I wasn't able to go to court that time because I was in the middle of a foreclosure.

[Dave Ramsey]

So did they take a. Did they take a judgment lien at that time?

[Jessica]

That's my understanding, but it never showed up on my credit report, so I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right.

[Jessica]

I assume yes, because now I'm being garnished.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no, you're not being garnished yet. There's a hearing for you to be garnished. Maybe there may be a hearing to renew the Judgment first. Okay? So the judgment has to be complete, and then they execute on the judgment by collecting any assets. And one of the ways they execute is a garnishment. Okay. And so I'm not sure exactly what your court date is, because you're not. It sounds like, though, that they're trying to reinvigorate an ancient judgment lien in order to execute on it and file a garnishment. It sounds like they're going to do that, but they're not garnishing. It's not automatic that this is going to happen. Okay? So first thing I want to do is I want to really dig in, call the courthouse and ask to talk to the judge's assistant or the judge's paralegal and find out exactly what the status of this account is and do you have a judgment and ask her how the procedure works there. Her or him. One of the cler in the judge's office will walk you through what's going on here. And you got to become an expert in 20 minutes on a tiny couple legal maneuvers. Okay? And then ask them, I've got kids at home. I'm broke. I'm a single mom. What can I do about this garnishment to keep it from happening if they're actually going to do that? Because bank of America said it's going to happen does not mean it's going to happen. Because you can tell a Bank of America credit card collector is lying if their mouth is moving, okay? They are scum. They lie, cheat, and steal every day. That's why no one should ever do business with that bank. They're filthy. All right? And so, I don't know, based on what they did, to scare you, because you're scared. We can hear it in your voice. They accomplished that goal, but I'm not sure that they told you the truth. As a matter of fact, I'm fairly sure they didn't.

[Jessica]

Now, I mean, I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go ahead. Go ahead. You're fine.

[Jessica]

I was just going to say, it's just my. My ex husband was extremely abusive. And now just having this brought up again, it's just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. So most emotional. I don't blame you.

[Jessica]

I just want it to go away.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to go away, too, but it's not going to until we deal with it, okay? It's not going to go away by ignoring it. We found that out over the last five years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And, Jessica, your divorce was finalized two years ago. Can I give you a promise?

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Avoiding this again just reinforces that sense of powerlessness that you feel. And we live in a culture that says just avoid anything uncomfortable and it's burying people. And so here's my promise to you. If you'll find a friend, find a coworker, take him to coffee and say, I've never told anybody this. I got this judgment, this horrible thing. Will you walk alongside me and a. You're going to give somebody the greatest gift another person can give somebody. Which is the question, can you help.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me and do the same thing with your pastor at your church. You need to go tell them what's going on and see if they'll help you. Now, all of that to say, now let's go to the end of it. Here's what we're going to do. They will take because the probability of them collecting this is close to zero. 98% of the people facing what you're facing file bankruptcy and they get zero. You don't need to file bankruptcy over this. You do need to scrape together $1,500 or $2,000 right? Quick selling some stuff, take an extra job or three.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell your 20 year old to go get a job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tell your 20 year old to get three jobs. We've got to scrape together. Maybe the church chip in and help you a little bit. We need to scrape together $1,500 to $2,000 and offer that to them as a lump sum settlement. They will say glory hallelujah, I got some money out of this woman. I didn't think I was ever going to get a dime. And they will take that as a settlement in full and the whole thing goes away. That's how you settle this and it goes away. The only other thing you can do to stop a garnishment is file bankruptcy. And I wouldn't do that. I would fight them tooth and nail. I'd go down there, get in the judge's face, I'm going to learn all about this. I'm going to make this my new hobby and I'm going to put this abusive crap in the rear view mirror permanently. So the good news is you haven't paid on it in a long time and they will settle for for pennies on the dollar. 15 to 20% will settle this on a four year old debt.

[Sherry]

Hey guys. I'm super excited to announce that two of the goats of sticking to a budget have finally teamed up. That's right. Ramsey and Aldi are partnering together because, well, groceries cost a lot of money and besides that, most stores are designed to trap you in a maze. A sad, expensive Maze. But Aldi is different. Aldi gives you simpler, better food choices that save you money and get you in and out so you can focus on what really matters. From affordable high quality must haves to grass fed meat, organic produce and yes, even name brands, Aldi has what you need at prices that won't steal your joy. So stop paying more and start shopping smarter at Aldi. Find a store near you today at Aldi Us. That's a l D. I dot us.

[Nikki]

All right, I want to shout out our teachers for a minute. You guys give so much to our kids every day. And often those days stretch into your nights and weekends. Seriously, you deserve a break. And by that I mean a dream vacation. All you have to do is enter the Ramsey Teacher Appreciation Giveaway sponsored by Ramsey Education. There's no purchase needed to win and you'll get bonus entries if you refer your teacher friends. Just go to ramseysolutions.com teacher that's ramseysolutions.com teacher.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by. Why refi? Before I do that, I'm going to stop. I meant to do something coming back from that. Okay, so some people listening to that last call are like bank of America will settle for 15 cents on the dollar on a four year old debt. The answer is absolutely. And I'll give you the proof. A couple of years ago, I think about three years ago, four years ago now, we decided to do something weird at Ramsey as part of our Christmas celebration for our team. And I've worked with and negotiated old bad debt on the behalf of clients at anywhere from 5 or 10 or 20 or 30 cents on the dollar for 30 years to get people out of debt that were broke like that poor lady and scared like that poor lady. So I knew that market was there and we contacted you can buy old bad debt in bulk and there are companies that buy old bad credit card debt and then try to collect it and you buy it at pennies on the dollar and try to collect it at dimes on the dollar and you make the spread. If that's the business, if they're a debt buyer, that's what they do. So we bought $10 million worth of bad credit card repossession and medical debt for $259,000. That's two and a half cents on the dollar. So we paid two pennies, three pennies on the dollar for $10 million worth of debt. There were 8,000 accounts and we did it to forgive was part of our Christmas deal. So we've got 1,000 team members. We gave each of them eight people to call and say, you know, that debt, it's forgiven in Jesus name. We bought it and we're forgiving it in Jesus name. Merry Christmas. And that was our Christmas fund.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That was awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we had so much fun with it. It was so. People were crying. They thought we were con artists. They didn't believe us. It was so fun. But we, but, you know, the point is not that we're wonderful people, although that was a very fun thing to do. But the, that's not the point. The point is we bought that for two and a half cents on the dollar. And that was, you know, many times a car that was repoed four years ago, three years ago. They don't think they're going to collect it. That's the point. And so when someone gets that far under, very seldom does the bank ever get their money. If they do corner someone like they did her, put them in court, they typically file bankruptcy and they get zero. So that. That's what normally happens. So banks are aware of those probabilities. They know the value of that $10,000 account is probably, you know, a couple of hundred bucks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So she. So she shows up in that case.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was 1500 bucks and says they're gonna, they're gonna be. They won't act like it to her. They're gonna be jerks to her because they're bank of America. But. But they're going to be hard to negotiate with. But believe me, they're going to take.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They're really happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's 15 cents on the dollar, not two and a half cents on the dollar that I was talking about. And that sounds kind of absurd to people who are used to paying their bills and all that kind of a thing. But in that world, that's a very standard way of looking at things because it's the probability of collection. Every day a credit card goes unpaid, the probability goes down dramatically.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. And I always want to, as a guy who. Dave, I. I pride myself on paying my bills on time. I pride myself. I always want to remember that voice that I just heard that's gonna haunt me for a while. Dave is the woman who had an abusive marriage. The court did what the court did. She's got three kids. She's got, like. There are things that pop up in people's lives, and that's where. That's why you live and give like nobody else. Right? You get these moments like this for, for people. And I'm glad that there's those situations they can walk in and say here, can I just settle this thing and be done with it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's awesome. And they'll. She'll be able to do that. One of the things she's got to do is one of the reasons I wanted her to learn all this is to change the confidence.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She's going to stand up taller because.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want her voice, I want her vocal cords to relax where she starts having this conversation. Because you can't negotiate when you sound like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because they can smell that amount.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, everybody here by getting her how scared she was. Yeah. So including the lawyer on the other side.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Alright now the Ramsey show question of the day brought to you by. Why refi are you. Do you have defaulted student private loans? There we go. Same thing again. Private student loans. These are not federally insured loans. Private student loans that are in default, do they keep you up at night? Why refi can help you lower your payments and your interest rate because they buy those accounts cheap and then they'll reset your payments lower than you ever dreamed and you're not in default anymore and they'll help you work through this. It's pretty cool. And they do it on a one off basis. It's not in bulk like you do with the other stuff. So. Yrefi.com Ramsey you can start resting. That's the letter Y W E or no, the letter Y r e f y.com Ramsey y refi might not be in all states.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love this question. This question comes from Jessica in Florida. Do you have advice for adult children discussing wills with their parents? We know that my husband's parents will be upset about who we've chosen as the guardians of our children should we pass away before they reach adulthood? Should we tell them our plans or leave it to them to find out if anything does happen to us? Great question. Please, please, please have the courage to sit down and have those hard conversations. This is a great way for your kids to get dragged through court when your in laws decide to sue your guardians because they didn't know and blah blah, blah. Like yes, have that hard conversation. That's my opinion on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Anytime your will is going to piss somebody off, do it while you're alive.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, that's a better way to say.

[Dave Ramsey]

It because the other parties are going to have to deal with the pissed off person if you don't have the courage to. So if you're cutting little Bobby out because little Bobby's doing cocaine, go ahead and Tell Bobby you're out of the will because you're doing cocaine, and I'm not giving you money to buy cocaine, so you're out of the will. I'm going to say, well, do whatever you want to do, Bobby. Just have your little cocaine fit. But you're not going to be in the will. And you just have the discussion while we're doing it, while we're alive, this idea that there's all these family secrets and all this dysfunction and it's all going to be solved in a walnut paneled room with the trophy wife and the three kids. That's a movie scene. That's not real life. Real life is people get angry over the china cabinet and they'll sue you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They'll sue. Brothers will sue brothers over the china cabinet. Or actually brothers wives.

[Dave Ramsey]

The 1957 John Deere tractor can break up a family.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you didn't deal with it while you were alive. And so, you know, Sharon's dad, he's 96 and he's so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Got to meet him the other day.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he's such a. He was like the mascot on the cruise. Right. He came with us on the cruise, and as sharp as attack, he told the kids to go through and flip over anything in the house and write their name on it unless somebody else's name was already on it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's what my grandmother said. She said, put a sticker on it, and once a sticker's on it, no complaining. That's what she said.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's done. First come first, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I have not looked, but I suspect there's some stickers in there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I also suspect that if you didn't choose these folks to be the guardians of your children, this is why. Right? Because they don't respect you as adults. They think that they, like they've got all these impositions.

[Dave Ramsey]

They don't get a vote.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right? They don't get a vote.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's see, my husband's parents. Okay? So he needs. By the way, when you sit down and talk to them, Jessica, you have a lot of things you want to say. You don't get to say any of them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Please don't let him speak.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let him talk. And tell your. If your husband doesn't want to talk about it, tell him to run down Walmart and pick up a backbone on aisle three and deal with his mama. That's exactly what's going on here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by the way, if mom, if. If grandparents decide that this just makes them so mad that they don't want to do Christmas with you anymore, then it's a two for one deal for y'all. Now you'll get to do fun Christmas without these goofballs. I get them. Hey, listen, I get them being sad about it. I get them thinking, oh, I wish it was us. I get that. I get that we need to keep it in the family. I get all that. They don't get a vote. And that's hard, I think, Dave, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Keep getting hard about everything. When you're grandparents, I get this question.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

More and more these days.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to give them more gummy bears. I don't get a vote.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. Actually, I'll still give you more gummy bears.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but it's sneaking around.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think that's part of being a grandparent.

[Dave Ramsey]

I might have done that. But I'm talking about. I'm not. I'm talking about technically following the rules.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The. The question I get them all sugared.

[Dave Ramsey]

Up before I send them home is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How do we have this conversation without them getting mad, disappointed, frustrated, and you can't. You cannot own somebody else's emotions. When you have a hard truth to tell them, you can own how you say that hard truth with dignity, with honesty, and with a period at the end of the sentence. Say less than you think you need to say. They get to decide whether to be angry, sad for. That's for them. You can't manage that.

[Dave Ramsey]

This upsets me, you know, I'm really sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry to upset you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're breaking up this family. I'm sorry that you see it that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not breaking up the family. If you want to do that, that'll be up to you, but I'm not doing that. I just made a decision about this. And it's. You know, Jefferson talks about, keep these conversations really brief, very short, don't drag all the other crap of the toxicity in the 1962. Now, Brink, just let all that go away. This is just a simple thing. I want to tell you what's in our will. And we wanted to make sure you knew while we were here. Here. Because we probably think you're probably not going to like it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We want you all to stay grandparents and not have to become parents.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go.

[Sherry]

Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order?

[Nikki]

Yes, I have, George. Sketchy. And never trust them.

[Sherry]

And that's why we recommend Delete me. They help with that.

[Nikki]

Yeah, they do. Delete Me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs.

[Sherry]

And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exists to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find.

[Nikki]

That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful.

[Sherry]

I love these reports so far. Get this. They've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible.

[Nikki]

Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it.

[Sherry]

I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to join deleteme.com/ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable.

[Nikki]

It's amazing. So Again, that's joinedelete me.com Ramsey. Make sure to check it out. You guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired? You can take control of your money and your relationships and it starts with just one night. Join me and Dr. John DeLoney live in a city near you on the Money and Relationships tour. We're covering the real life stuff that matters so you can break the cycles that have left you stuck. It's coming up fast, so get your tickets for Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth or Kansas City at ramseysolutions.com tour today. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host on the debt free stage right here in the middle of the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Katie is with us. Hey Katie, how are you?

[Katie]

I'm doing well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Where do you live?

[Katie]

Alexandria, Louisiana. Sorry, I'm a little emotional.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna be all right. We'll get you through it. We've never lost a patient, so enjoy the ride. Thank you. How much debt have you paid off, Katie?

[Katie]

About 60. A little over 60. Seven thousand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. How long did that take?

[Katie]

It took me five years. And a lot of hurt and heartache and a lot of prayers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Yeah. Scratching and clawing, kiddo. And what was your household income range? Your best year and Worst year making over that five year period of time.

[Katie]

Side hustles and gifts and everything. First year when I started this, it was about 45,000. Last year I ended right around 67,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. What do you do for a living?

[Katie]

I'm a pediatric occupational therapy assistant as well as a medical billing specialist.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Wow. Very cool.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So on behalf of my family is personal for what you do professionally. Thank you. That's a hard gig and somebody in your seat wearing your title changed my family. So thank you. It's awesome.

[Katie]

You've been a huge motivation to keep going.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. So what was the 67,000 in debt? What kind of debt?

[Katie]

Everything except for a payday loan. That is the only thing that I didn't do in a house that didn't. Didn't go that far. Lots of medical bills. The majority of it was student loans. Looking back, that was the worst mistake of my life. And bought a car. Second worst mistake, bought a car a month before starting this. So fortunately I did buy a used car. So it was not a huge loan, but it was a loan.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So tell us where that emotion comes from.

[Katie]

Just the amount of time that it took.

[Dave Ramsey]

The amount of time it took, yes.

[Katie]

My goal was two years. And right before starting, I, I mean, sorry, right during the time that I. That pushed me to start this, I was dealing with some medical things that was unexplainable at the day. There was no explanation at the time. I had spent 10 months going back and forth to doctors, saw three or four specialists, did not know what was going on. And in October, I had already. I've been a side hustler since I was, you know, since I started working at 16, before I even knew about, knew what a side hustle was. And I was dog sitting and I stumbled across the Ramsey show on YouTube and I was dog sitting. So what else do you do? I mean, I binge watch.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, dogs. Dogs help us a lot. They promote the show quite often.

[Katie]

Yes. So. And actually the family that I was dog sitting for, they, they are a pediatric therapy center about two hours from where I live. I worked for them in college and they're Ramsey. They do all the entree leadership. They've been to Summit and I think when you guys were in Florida and in Christie and they have Believe and achieve therapy in Monroe, Louisiana. And so I was dog sitting for Christie. They're therapy dogs. And I, I just, I watched the show, I think for 18 hours one day because I mean, what else do you do, you know? And So I was like, this is what I need because I had medical bills that had started pouring in. I had just bought a car and I was just, I was very down and I was, I didn't know what to do, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, so binge watching the whole thing gave you tools and gave you binge watched. It didn't give you shame.

[Katie]

Right. And I will say I tell everybody, I knew what you were going to say. I watched it so much, I knew what you were going to say before you knew what you were going to say.

[Dave Ramsey]

A lot of people play answer the question before day when they're driving.

[Katie]

Yes, I do that a lot. And so I got started and I started saving my emergency fund and I actually, a few weeks later I was talking to my boss and I was sharing with her. We were close and worked for a very small clinic in Alexandria. Shout out to MB therapy and all of my team, they may be watching or they're probably working, but I was talking to her and sharing with her that I had started, I had done my thousand dollar emergency fund with actually the money that I made doing dog sitting and then a few other odd jobs. And she said, oh yeah, you need to do this. She said, my husband and I, Todd and Megan Bolton are their names. She said, my husband and I did it 20 years ago when Dave taught the class. And she said, and that's why we were able to, that's why we do things the way we do. And so that was in 2019 when I started. Well, you know what happened in 2020 and so heard the rumor, looking back, I'm so grateful that you taught the class that they took in Monroe, Louisiana.

[Dave Ramsey]

20 something years ago down there.

[Katie]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh my gosh. We did an event at the Baptist church. Yes, that was a thousand years ago.

[Katie]

They took it. I'm not sure if it was that specific event or I know it was through the employer that he worked for, but I'm not sure, I don't know all the details. But all I know is that we are about to build a multi million dollar clinic debt free. And she was able to continue meeting payroll. We never missed a payment, never missed. I never missed a paycheck during COVID And we actually probably tripled our patient load during 2020, 2021 because she was able, never took one of the loans that was offered.

[Dave Ramsey]

And guess what? One of the paychecks was yours.

[Katie]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're trying to get rid of $67,000.

[Katie]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Scraping. So what was the first thing you.

[Katie]

Paid off first Thing I paid off was probably a medical bill.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was the last thing you paid off?

[Katie]

Last thing was student loans. I did not realize until later that I was supposed to have broken those up into smaller loans. And so I always treated it, but they're gone. And so I did that, took care of that on December.

[Dave Ramsey]

How does it feel not have any?

[Katie]

You have no idea. I mean, you do, but it's just so amazing to me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you had that month yet where you didn't have any payments, but your paycheck deposited?

[Katie]

That was this month, actually.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What was that like?

[Katie]

It was amazing. It was supposed to have been February. We were celebrated. That's another story. But we celebrated the adoption of my little boy in February. And the night before his party, I was bringing his cake back home for the party the next day, and he and I had a massive car accident. Totaled our car. And I had so many people say, well, you gonna get a car? You gonna have a car payment? And I said, nope. I said, God's gonna provide.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, well, you had insurance, didn't you?

[Katie]

I did, but I didn't know. I didn't know what kind of an insurance check. I had an older car I was driving. My. The car that I was driving, I had bought five years before, and it was old when I bought it. And so it was a good car, but, you know, it wasn't worth a whole lot. So I talked to my brother about purchasing his car. He's in the military, so we had a lot of, you know, talked about that he doesn't need the vehicle. And so that was kind of what I was thinking. But it was 2000. I think it's a 2000, 2001, something like that. But my. My parents reached out to me and said, hey, we're talking about getting a new vehicle. So, you know, we're sell you this one for this amount. And I said, okay, you know, we'll see what my. What my insurance check is, because I don't know if I'll be able to swing it, but, you know, and then they had agreed that they would give me a small amount as well toward the purchase of whatever I. I bought. And so a couple weeks later, I got a phone call from my insurance company, and it was almost to the penny of everything that I needed to pay for the car. And as well as the registration, I paid $200 over to come.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a better car than that junker they got total.

[Katie]

Yes. I went from a 2016 Sentra to a 2016 Rogue.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I like It.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Proud of you.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm proud of you. I bet they're proud of you.

[Katie]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you got control of something that needed to be getting control of bad. I can tell.

[Katie]

Yes. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you tell people? The secret to getting out of debt.

[Katie]

Is if I can survive cancer, move through an adoption, cash flow, a bachelor's degree and part of a grad school degree that I quit because I just decided I was tired of paying for it. I can do it through all of that, anybody can do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen. So persevere is the answer.

[Katie]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just don't quit. Yes. 67 or five years? Six months. 67,000 in five years.

[Katie]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a long slog, kiddo.

[Katie]

It was.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the good news is, is now you have control of you. And now you have control of this subject that owns so many people. And now you own it. It doesn't own you anymore. So fabulously done, kiddo.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dude, in anything that comes your way in the future, you're going to be able to smile and say, yeah, buckle up, because I've already been through worse than you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's awesome. Buckle up. You've done warrior princess, kiddo. Well done.

[Katie]

CHILD screaming Very well done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I thought it was Dave for a second, then I realized it was.

[Katie]

Nope, that's mine.

[Dave Ramsey]

It could. It could be one of the personalities out there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's George Campbell out there.

[Dave Ramsey]

George. George, behave.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey. I'm really proud of you. It's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey. All right, Katie, count it down. 67,000 paid off at five years. Making 45 to 67. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Katie]

Three, two, one. I'm debt free.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Some of them feel stronger than others. I like it. Love it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Ah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you, Lord. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, good news. Presale is on now for my new book, build a business you love. If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard. That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre order your copy today and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store pre order today. If you're running a business or you know someone that is, there's one thing we know. When you're on your own business, it's hard. When you go to work for yourself, you discover your boss is a slave driver. They will work you like A rented mule. I mean, it's bad, y'all. It's the hardest I ever worked for my in my life is working for myself. And you just run, run, run, run. Go, go, go, go, go. It's tough, man. And hey, guys, you can move through the small business stages. There's five stages of small business, and we've worked through them at Ramsey. We've worked through them with 10,000 small business businesses. And so we put together a book to show you how to do that. This is the baby steps for small business. It's called build a business you love. It comes out April 15th. If you pre order it now for $29.99, you get over $350 in free bonus items, including instant access to the entree leadership hiring playbook. The number one pain point of small business people hiring and firing their people, dealing with people. It's a hard part of running a business. The ebook, the enhanced audiobook. Our audiobook is gonna be like a podcast. You're gonna love this audiobook. It's way different. Pre order all of [e-mail] store or click the link in the description on the YouTube or podcast. Nikki's in St. Louis. Hey, Nikki, what's up in your world?

[Nikki]

Hi, Ramsey show. It's so great to be on here. Thank you so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you. How can we help?

[Nikki]

So I have 260k in federal student loan debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good lord. For what?

[Nikki]

Well, I have a bachelor's of science in chemical engineering and I have a master's in engineering management.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great. How much do you make?

[Nikki]

So that's the catch. I was working in the field and 20, 21 hit. I had my daughter in the absence of her father. He passed away. So I kind of had to step back from the field for a little while and focus on my motherhood. But I'm ready now to come back, and I'm back in chaos in the economy that I just feel like is not working. For engineering.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, bull crap.

[Nikki]

No, for a mother, a single mother, balancing that together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you can't not work. You have to work. But if you go to work, engineering is an exploding field right now, and you got more degrees than a thermometer. You need to go make some money.

[Nikki]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

You desperately need to make. You need to be making 200k. Okay, yesterday. What is the deal? What is. What is it? What are you waiting on? What I don't understand.

[Nikki]

Well, this is the thing I am trying to figure out. I've been interviewing and it's like I'll get close to a yes, but as soon as it's, oh, we may need you to stay in, we may need you to be on call. And as an engineer, that's kind of like the livelihood before my motherhood kicked in, being on call and being available, which I've always been able to. But now that you're a mom, a single mom at that, you have to not be available at those times. You have to take care of the child.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You do. But. But you're, A, going back to grad school isn't going to solve that problem, and B, you're fishing in a very small pond. Do you get what. You get what I'm saying?

[Nikki]

What do you mean by fishing, small pond?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm saying you are continually looking for the same jobs in the same type of engineering place. Right. That's going to always come back to. It's like me, if I want to go back to being a dean of students, but I don't want to be on call, I can't have that job because that's the important part of that job. But if I want to work at a university, I'm gonna have to broaden what I'm looking at with my skill set. Do you get what I'm saying? You're an engineer. You can do stuff that Dave and I can't do because you, you have a license. You can go do amazing things. But you're gonna have to broaden your picture of what being an engineer is like.

[Nikki]

Or, but it may not be direct or indirect. It could be indirectly related.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But still, of course, you've got a skill, you've got.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're able to solve.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And by the way, I'm telling you because I love you. I sat with what I would call. We called when I was a graduate school professor, perpetual students who kept going for the next license, the next degree, the next thing. Not as. Not as a way. I had to get another degree because my field, I felt, was closing and I needed a licensure. You are just trying to avoid the grind. That is, if you want to make $200,000, a business wants you to work that hard, and that just stinks. It's hard, and I think you can.

[Dave Ramsey]

And listen, if you talk to people in an interview like you've been talking to us, you're never going to get hired. I wouldn't hire you. You want to know why?

[Nikki]

Why?

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you told me six times how you had to take care of this baby. And I know you're a single mom. I know you need to take care of your baby. That is first. There's no question about that. As soon as I know you're a single mom, have a baby. Anybody who's got a human brain knows that's your first priority. But don't tell me that six times, because what that tells me is you're not going to be reliable. It tells me you're not coming to work. It tells me you're coming to work for what you can get rather than what you can give. You're not here to add value to the organization. You're here to extract value with as little work and as little availability as possible. You're not getting hired. You got to change your attitude about what can I add? How can I be enthusiastic? How can I add value to this organization? And that is the best way you can serve your child and is getting rid of this $260,000 worth of debt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it. It's looking at. You have some, you have extensive liabilities out on your family for this, for this thing. So you think just being present with this kid is the greatest gift? The greatest gift you can give that kid. Yes. Is your presence. But like having a house with peace in it and you're in for over a quarter million dollars, you don't have. You have no peace. And so you can find a high school kid, a college kid in your local community who will be on call with you. I'm gonna pay you 25 bucks an hour, 30 bucks an hour, 50 bucks an hour to come over on those rare nights I get called and you can order my house within an hour and you like, I need you here.

[Dave Ramsey]

I actually have four of them, got it on call. And so that if one of them is on a date, you can still.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Get them and you can overly pay them. And so then maybe you get burned a few times, you have to spend some money and instead of making 200 grand, you make 190. You're still really winning and your debts paid off in two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

You being at home full time and rocking this baby nine, eight, eight, nine hours a day is not an option for you anymore. You gave that up when you signed up for 260,000. Now you've got to solve big boy and big girl problems. And so the sad situation of where you are and the loss of your husband is leaving you with no choices. Yeah. I'm so sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Please don't go get another degree. Please, please, please, please.

[Dave Ramsey]

And please lean into the fabulous degrees and brain that you have. You have an incredible Brain. I mean, dumb people can't get these degrees that you have. I mean, you know, you get a dadgum master's in chemistry. Was it?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, you can do any kind of math.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, here's the other thing. You probably had an arrangement with your husband that one day this was going to be how this was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Maybe you're going to be a stay at home mom. Maybe you're going to work part time. And there's something about grieving the end of that dream too, because he passed away. And I know you've grieved his loss and all that, but there's this moment now. And I got a kid and now I've got this. It just stinks, man. It's heartbreaking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I'm sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, go get it. Go get it, Go get it, go get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you can do this. It is doable for you. But that's the. That, that's the trick, Nikki. You gotta. You're gonna have to lean in and make a career now. And while you find some alternative and different ways to work through the motherhood thing. So, I mean, it's not unusual at all for someone making two or even $300,000 a year to have a full time nanny.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what you got to have, if that's what you're. An overnight, if that's what you have to have. Yeah. Or somebody that's on quote, on call, unquote. But yeah, you're trying to do six things at once and you're gonna have to choose one. And I'm telling you, you've got the tools in your belt to make serious money. And if I were you, not because money's important, but because getting the freedom from that student loan is important. Once you're free from that, if you want to take a job making 100 instead of 300 and that gives you more flexibility, fine. I got no issue with that at all. But you got to clean this mess up. For your sake, for your sake, and for everyone out there listening. Getting another degree, getting degrees to the tune of $260,000. There is no time in life that that works out. Zero. There's only one way that works out and that never happens, and that's if your plan works exactly like you thought it was going to work. She didn't think when she took out $260,000 worth of degree to get to pile up degrees like a thermometer that she was going to end up being a single mom because her husband passed away. That wasn't on her plan. That was not on her bingo card. Well, guess what? Your life that comes at you is not on your bingo card. You don't know what's gonna come. That's why you don't go take out these kinds of loans. Well, it's always a good investment. No, it's not a good investment. It's a trap. And it's a sin that our government does this to its own people. A sin. You ought to stop it. Congress.