Life Is Complicated. Money Doesn't Have To Be.

Summary

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The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Life Is Complicated. Money Doesn't Have To Be.
Date: July 27, 2026
Hosts: George Campbell & Jade Warshaw
Podcast Theme: Building wealth, simplifying personal finance, and taking control of your money—no matter prior mistakes. Live Q&A format, focused on actionable advice for callers facing real-world financial challenges.

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the complexities of personal and family finance, with George and Jade answering questions from listeners on marriage and debt, starting risky business ventures, infertility and financial planning, debt payoff strategies, emotional money issues, investing, and managing inheritances. The central theme: While life can be complicated, your money doesn’t have to be—keep it simple, communicate openly, avoid debt, and follow time-tested steps to financial freedom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Marriage & Combining Debt

[00:38–09:02]

• Caller: Max (Boston) – Wife brought $75,000 debt (student loans and car loan) into marriage. Unsure if debt should be tackled alone or together.
• Advice:
  • Marriage is a “we thing, not an I thing.” Combining money is vital for long-term marital harmony.
  • Avoid setting a precedent of secrecy or handling financial shame alone ("Whatever you allow to persist in the beginning...will continue").
  • Set healthy habits early; tackle debts as a team for faster progress and a better marriage.
  • Notable Quote: “You make a mess, I’m going to help you clean it up...That sets the tone for the next 20 years of your marriage.” – George [08:29]
  • Counseling is suggested for emotional baggage tied to debt.

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2. Risky Business Ventures & Massive Debt

[10:25–20:15]

• Caller: Ryan (Philadelphia) – Considers taking on $3.5 million in debt to start a chicken farm at 23, with limited experience.
• Advice:
  • Strong warning against massive debt for unproven opportunities, especially with a family on the way.
  • Emphasized understanding worst-case scenarios ("If the farm loses money for years, what do you do?").
  • Urged starting small, testing skills, and not letting “get rich quick” dreams override financial sense.
  • Notable Quote: “There’s no world in which taking on any level of debt, let alone $3.5 million, is a good idea.” – George [13:34]

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3. Family Planning, Debt, and Preparing for the Unknown

[21:37–25:34]

• Caller: Angela (Washington, D.C.) – Dealing with infertility treatments; unsure whether to focus on debt payoff or save for potential baby expenses.
• Advice:
  • Use momentum to attack debts if treatment is paid for by grant; pause only if/when out-of-pocket costs arise.
  • Focus on not adding new debt; adjust dynamically as costs and life events happen.

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4. Car Loan Regret & Over-Borrowing

[25:35–31:04]

• Caller: Zephaniah (Austin, TX) – $28,000 car loan, car is worth much less, facing 18% interest.
• Advice:
  • Own the mistake, make a plan to get out—either save up the difference or get a loan to cover the negative equity, then downsize.
  • Notable Advice: Don’t let the salesperson dictate your financial philosophy.

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5. Business Debt vs. Cash, Simplicity, and Motivation

[32:52–39:59]

• Caller: Jim (Laredo, TX) – Carrying ~$190,000 in trucking business debt, but sitting on $320,000+ in cash.
• Advice:
  • Pay off all business debt immediately for freedom and simplicity.
  • Good cash flow allows for risk reduction—don't keep debt for "motivation."
  • Compare the emotional relief of a paid-off house/property to business assets.
  • Memorable Moment: Caller admits keeping toy trucks for fun—Jade notes it’s “up to you, what feels better,” but pay off debt first.

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6. Lump Sum or Spread Out Roth IRA Investing?

[40:17–42:28]

• Caller: Landon (Rochester) – Asks if he should fund his Roth IRA with a lump sum or spread out over 12 months.
• Advice:
  • Lump-summing at the beginning of the year is likely to outperform monthly contributions, but the best approach is whatever you will stick to consistently.

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7. Carrying Financial Mental Load in Marriage

[44:03–52:14]

• Caller: Sarah (Baltimore) – Stressed as the sole spouse responsible for family finances; husband is supportive but checked out due to discomfort with numbers.
• Advice:
  • Both spouses must regularly engage in budgeting and decision-making, not just defer decisions.
  • Even if one is less math-inclined, they must participate and share the “mental load.”
  • Notable Quote: “You decide who you are with money. Don’t let the salesperson (or anyone else) decide for you.” – Jade [30:50]
  • Use EveryDollar budget app, set clear communication norms, and avoid hidden resentment.

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8. Entrepreneurial Ethics & Balance

[54:11–58:52]

• Caller: Reese (Columbia, SC) – Worries about chasing money versus honorable motives when starting a business.
• Advice:
  • Profit isn't evil; what matters is character and how you treat people while earning it.
  • If you’re concerned about idolizing money, you’re less likely to fall prey to it.
  • Notable Quote: “Money makes you more of what you already are… Producing wealth is a good thing.” – Jade [57:52]

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9. Home Upkeep, Cash Flow Struggles, and Not Selling Out of Stress

[59:45–63:13]

• Caller: Joe (Boise) – Wonders if he should sell his home due to repeated expensive repairs.
• Advice:
  • If the problem is cash flow, not the home, focus on rebuilding the emergency fund.
  • Keep an eye on budget and margin; avoid rash asset sales if repairs are the only hurdle.

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10. Debt Snowball: Smallest First, All Debts, All Individuals

[65:18–67:57]

• Question: Brendan (Wyoming) – Should we knock out my wife’s debts first, or list and attack all combined debts in snowball order?
• Advice:
  • Always list all debts (regardless of whose they are) smallest to largest and attack them in that order.
  • Research backs up momentum for paying off individual small balances first.

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11. Handling Inheritance After Loss, Honoring a Sibling

[67:57–73:39]

• Caller: Ryan (Charlotte) – Receives $20,000 after sister’s passing, wants to both honor her and pay down student loans.
• Advice:
  • Use majority to make significant progress on loans.
  • Allocate a modest portion for legacy-honoring travel if it will aid healing.
  • Memorable Moment: Jade affirms emotional healing matters, too [72:25].

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12. Parents’ Broken Promises on Student Loans

[94:51–103:39]

• Caller: Katie (Raleigh) – Parents promised to pay student loans but haven’t; wondering if she should take over payments with new income.
• Advice:
  • Take ownership and pay them off – “A promise with no deadline is just a wish.”
  • If parents someday reimburse, treat as a windfall; don’t count on it or let resentment build.
  • Organize debts by balance, follow the baby steps, use increased income to power through quickly.
  • Notable Quote: “You have every right to be resentful and hurt…but you also have a responsibility to deal with what’s in your lap.” – George [97:07]

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13. Roth IRA vs 401(k) – Investing Order

[105:30–106:23]

• Advice:
  • Simple order: 1) Employer Match, 2) Roth, 3) Traditional 401(k) up to 15% of income.

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14. End-of-Life Planning for Elderly Parent

[107:01–111:31]

• Caller: Brian (Dallas) – Mom, 94, moves to assisted living. What to do with home sale proceeds ($150k)?
• Advice:
  • Don’t try to hide assets to qualify for Medicaid; focus on maximizing care and peace of mind.
  • Keep much of capital accessible in high-yield savings for care; invest a portion for modest growth.

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15. Advanced Wealth Building for High-Income Young Couple

[117:06–124:43]

• Caller: Kyle (Charleston) – He and his wife, both real estate agents, earning $360k/year, no debt except mortgage; seeking guidance for investing.
• Advice:
  • Roth IRAs (backdoor, given high income), then Solo 401(k)s as self-employed, contribute up to the limit.
  • Consider HSA if eligible.
  • Pay off the mortgage for true freedom—debunking the “spread” myth.
  • Once the home is paid off, invest in taxable accounts and/or buy real estate for cash.
  • Event Offer: George and Jade gift him a ticket to their “Investing Essentials” virtual event.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Teamwork in Marriage:
  “She didn’t cause the snow, but she saw us as a team. You’re not faster apart, you’re stronger together.” – George [04:01]
• Risk Aversion in Business:
  “Why would they put this on a 23-year-old if it was such a money-making scheme? They’d take on the risk themselves if it was so great.” – George [18:21]
• Behavior Trumps Math:
  “It’s more about behavior than the number.” – George [67:24]
• Money & Character:
  “Money just makes you more of what you already are.” – Jade [57:52]
• Taking Ownership:
  “You decide who you are with money. Don’t let the salesperson decide for you.” – Jade [30:50]

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Key Timestamps

• Marriage & Debt: 00:38–09:02
• Risky Chicken Farm Loan: 10:25–20:15
• Infertility Finances: 21:37–25:34
• Bad Car Loan Decision: 25:35–31:04
• Business Debt & Simplicity: 32:52–39:59
• Investing (Roth lump sum): 40:17–42:28
• Financial Mental Load: 44:03–52:14
• Ethics in Business: 54:11–58:52
• Home Repair Stress: 59:45–63:13
• Debt Snowball Method: 65:18–67:57
• Inheritance & Loss: 67:57–73:39
• Parents’ Broken Loan Promises: 94:51–103:39
• Roth vs. 401k Order: 105:30–106:23
• Elder Care Assets: 107:01–111:31
• High-Income Investment Strategy: 117:06–124:43

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Tone & Style

• Direct, warm, and pragmatic; “tough love” when necessary, but always encouraging and empathetic.
• Focused on practical, step-by-step action, behavioral change, and long-term peace over short-term comfort.
• Emphasis on simplicity, open communication, and thinking ahead in every financial decision.

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For Listeners

Whether dealing with messes from the past, overwhelmed by choices, or dreaming big, this episode is a masterclass in how to break things down, refocus, and move forward—together or alone, one step at a time.

Transcript

[Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Campbell]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw. We're taking Your calls at 888-2552. Max is in Boston to kick us off. What's going on, Max? Hey, how's it going?

[Announcer]

Great, man.

[George Campbell]

How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm just. I'm recently married. My wife came into the marriage with some. Some debt, and I'm just kind of trying to figure out who. Who should be paying it.

[George Campbell]

Oh, juicy. I like this. Okay, what does she think?

[Caller]

So she actually wants to take on the debt. My. But my concern is it's just like, I don't think she's going to get anywhere out of the debt anytime soon, which I'm not a huge fan of.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much is it?

[Caller]

So she's got about 75,000 in debt, all student loans. So a little over 10,000 is in a car, and then the rest is student loans. 14 of that being ED, and then the rest are private.

[Announcer]

Oh, wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. What'd she earn?

[Caller]

So right now she's bringing in, if she doesn't work any overtime after taxes, after, you know, investing in retirement and she's in a union and, you know, paying those dues, it's about 4,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what do you make?

[Caller]

So after taxes, I bring in 5,000 in my salary, and then I'm in sales. And so I make commissions. Some months good, some months not really, but I average it out. And after taxes, investment in retirement, all that stuff, I make on average about 6,200 in commission a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

So what other things do you plan keeping sep. What other things do you plan to keep separate from your wife in marriage?

[Caller]

Like, not. Not really anything. Like, we're kind of in that process of, like, trying to figure out how to combine finances. And like, when I saw that, that I'm like, okay, should I help take. But then she kind of wants to take it on because she doesn't want to, like, make me feel responsible for it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, it sounds like based on your decision, based off of what you said when you answered that question, it sounds like the decision is made because if you said to me, well, Jade, there are a couple of things I'd like to keep separate. I like to keep my work separate or I like to keep my, you know, whatever. This might be a different conversation. But you said, I don't plan on keeping anything separate. So that tells us the answer, which is, we definitely need to combine this. You definitely see marriage as a we thing, not an individual thing, or at least, you know, pieces to be individual. And so I think that's a great framework to start with, and maybe that's the conversation that you have with her to help her understand that it's not a negative thing or it's not a weak thing or unfair thing for her to approach this as a we together with you.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, no, no, I think that makes sense, and I think that's a good first step.

[Jade Warshaw]

It just puts some perspective around it. If you go to her and say, okay, it sounds like you're wanting to do this debt thing separately. Is there anything else you plan on keeping separate from me? I think she's going to go, oh, I get it. I see.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah, I think. I think she might want to keep it separate. I don't know if she just doesn't want me fully looking into, like, how she budgets and how she.

[George Campbell]

How long you guys are married. You're looking at everything, buddy.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Money is. I mean, money is the very least. So, Max, you're in Boston. Have you been through a Boston winter yet?

[Caller]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've been up here my whole life.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I grew up there for the first 20 years of my life. And I would see my dad out there shoveling the snow. We had a steep driveway, and it was back breaking work. And what would my mom do? She'd go out and help him. Now, it's not her. She didn't cause the snow. Right. But she sees him hustling out there, sacrificing goes, we're a team. Why don't we get this thing done way faster? So instead of taking three hours to shovel, it gets done in one hour. The same is true of this pile of debt. She can try to do this on her own, and it'll likely take seven years, and she's gonna resent you secretly without ever telling you, wow. Or you could get it done in three years, two years, by compiling your money together, going, it's one checking account, one savings account, one team, one dream, and you guys knock this thing out and your marriage is better for it.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's true. Another thing to think of. And I know that we're speaking to her through you. You don't seem to be the one that has the issue with it, but my mom told me one of the best pieces of marriage advice that she gave me was Whatever habits you start in the beginning and whatever you allow to persist in the beginning, those things will continue on throughout the marriage.

[George Campbell]

It sets the temperature.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you set the tone. So in the very beginning, start nipping things in the bud that you think will be problematic. And so I say all that to say something else you can talk to her about is if we start, if we set the tone of whenever you're in trouble, you handle it by yourself. Whenever you do something you're ashamed of, you handle it by yourself. Whenever you do something you think that, you know, I may not approve of, you handle it. But that's a tone that you're setting, and that is absolutely not the tone you want to set for your marriage. You want the tone of I can be fully known by this person. I can let them in on what I'm going through. Good, bad, ugly, whatever it is, because that's what marriage is. And, and so really have this conversation and speak about it in greater terms, not just financial. And I think that's going to help a lot.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. No, I think so too. I, I, I appreciate that. Yeah. I think I'm trying not to like, come off as like, you know, I guess, controlling over finances.

[Jade Warshaw]

I understand that.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, so I'm trying to play that, like, balance that.

[George Campbell]

So you think if you stepped in, she would go, whoa, whoa, whoa, you don't need to be controlling me.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Yes and no. A little bit. Just because she's had some like, I came from like a debt, like anti debt family and she's come from one that wasn't, you know, crazy about having or wasn't, you know, anti debt at all. And then she's also had some, I would say, issues with her dad when it comes to money. And so she's almost like worried that I'm going to act a little bit like how he acted, you know, with her and like finances.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Does she feel judged? Not that you're, not that you're making her feel that way, but if she

[Caller]

feels that way a little bit, like we definitely. A little bit. Just because I think it's, just because it's a good amount of debt. So I think she's feeling a little bit judged.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, here's what I suggest. Number one, I'm going to give you a copy of my book. What no one tells you about money. Because I talk about this a lot. Going into my marriage, my husband had 200, 200, some odd thousand dollars of student loan debt and I only had 30. And so it was a hard Hard thing for him to accept, us working together on it. It's like he just couldn't fathom it. And he felt really guilty. He felt a lot of shame about that. And I walk through all that in the book, so I think that'll be good. Number two, you want, you want to know counseling never hurts. It never hurts to just step in and have that kind of unbiased person in the middle of. Because the thing is, she's going to feel judged, I think, regardless of what you do, how you say this, because she's got personal baggage that's attached to this. And I think that's something that can only be worked out over time, probably with the help of a therapist. And I think there's no shade on that. George, I think that's a fabulous thing. And now's the time to do things like that in the beginning of your marriage.

[George Campbell]

And I always like to flip the script. If you were in her shoes and you had some debt and yes, whatever it is, student loans, would you be like, man, I would hate for you to help me out as we get married and combine our money. I want to do this on my own. Now, some men do that because they feel like it's macho and they don't want to bring the woman into it. But I think there is nothing more freeing than being that open with your spouse, that vulnerable and accountable to go, we're in this together. You make a mess, I'm going to help you clean it up. I make a mess, we're cleaning this thing up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's the point, man.

[George Campbell]

That sets the tone for the next 20 years of your marriage. So this really isn't about who's going to pay the loans. It's about what kind of marriage do you want?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, maybe play this. Call for her and let George and I be the explainers.

[George Campbell]

I'll be the bad guy. I usually am.

[Jade Warshaw]

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[George Campbell]

Ryan is up next in Philadelphia. What's going on, Ryan? Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hey, guys, how's it going?

[George Campbell]

Great. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. So I am calling to see if it's a smart idea to go three and a half million dollars in debt to start a chicken farm.

[George Campbell]

This was not on my bingo card today. Ryan, I'm going to be honest.

[Jade Warshaw]

You said it so, like, it was no big deal too. You just kind of slid it in

[George Campbell]

there from your mouth to God's ears. Is this a prank call?

[Caller]

This is not okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it 3.5 million? Like off the bat, like, tell us what that entails. That's you buying the land. That's you buying all the equipment. Tell us what the 3.5 million is.

[Caller]

So about 600,000 of that is for the land, estimating a little high for the prices near me. And then the 3 million is for the four chicken houses to be put up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Four chicken houses?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

What about equipment?

[Caller]

All the equipment needed to run that would be included in that, except for the skid steer loader, which is about a $50,000 expense estimating high.

[Jade Warshaw]

Again, do you come from a long line of chicken farmers?

[Caller]

I do not, no. When I grew up, I learned how to drive on a farm and helped load hay trailers and stuff like that. And I have been working with chicken farmers over the last year or so, learning the business a little bit.

[George Campbell]

So where did this dream opportunity come from? Did someone come to you or is this just you spitballing going? Man, I want to do this on my own.

[Caller]

So I live in a pretty decent area where there's a huge chicken producer around here and they need more houses and more birds desperately. And this is something that I would, I enjoy and I would definitely like to make a career out of it.

[George Campbell]

So if they need more, why don't they build more?

[Caller]

They don't build their own houses. I've asked that question before. But they like to have the farmers grow the birds. So they, they do a lot of the. They handle the feed, they handle dropping the birds off, picking the birds up. I just have to grow the birds and they pay me for them.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's the incentive? That doesn't feel like enough of an incentive for you. Is there more?

[George Campbell]

Feels like you're doing all the work right now. You build a house and you grow the birds.

[Caller]

Yeah. So right now I'm making about $40,000 a year working as a fire extinguisher technician. These houses, while I'm paying off the loans, I would still be making around $90,000 a year. And then once those loans are paid off, in 15 years maximum, I'd be making around $400,000 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's. That's the assumption that everything goes right, everything goes according to plan, Nothing is thrown for a loop.

[Caller]

So the company does have a lot of guarantees. So all the numbers I'm using are the minimum guaranteed numbers. So even if my birds would die from the bird flu or something like that, they still guarantee that I'm getting paid.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you make $90,000.

[Caller]

But.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, here's the thing though. You'll make your salary, but the loans are still due. So if you don't have great years, it's going to take you more than 15 years to pay back this. Let me just start by saying this. I in no way am for this, but I just want to hear your side of it.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, we'll cut to the chase. We didn't have any spoiler alerts, but this is a hard no from us. And there's no world in which taking on any level of debt, let alone $3.5 million, is a good idea.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 23. I'm married and I have a kid on the way.

[George Campbell]

Oh

[Jade Warshaw]

my goodness.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Caller]

To help you with the numbers a little bit, the estimated gross income before all the expenses is around half a million dol year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. But that's gross.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

I think all you're looking at right now is the potential upside.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And then you're not looking at the guaranteed variable, which is I owe $3.5 million no matter what while I have a baby coming into this world.

[Jade Warshaw]

Uhhuh.

[George Campbell]

That's just too much risk.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's. And I don't mean any shade. There's no shade whatsoever to this. But I only mean it in comparison to the. The risk. It's only $90,000. You're acting like they're gonna pay you half a million dollars a year to do this. And even still, I wouldn't do it. But you see what I'm saying, you're like 3.5 million in debt. So I can make 90,000 a year. That just is not.

[George Campbell]

You can avoid all the debt and just go make 90 grand doing something.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Get a different type of job. Here's what I would suggest, because I know we're putting your dream a little

[George Campbell]

bit, I want you to poultry dreams here.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm thinking, can we start small and test how good you are at this point? Can we. Can we start with a homestead? Can we start with something that's a family farm that you and your wife and your soon to be children do and build that up? Is there something that we can do there? Because I feel like, is the play here I want to be a chicken farmer or is the play here I want to make lots of money fast.

[Caller]

So my overall goal is to have land that I can then reinvest what the land is making to set up future generations.

[George Campbell]

Here's my question. If this was such a great idea, why isn't every farmer in America going, I'll take on three and a half million to go do this tomorrow. Guys who have been doing this for a long time, guys who know what they're doing, who are 30, 40, 50 years old, who have made. Most guys are. What's that?

[Caller]

So around my area, most guys are. They're required to be within an hour of their production facility. So again, at the beginning, I said, I live in a very, like, fortunate area.

[George Campbell]

But what does your wife think about this?

[Caller]

She actually gave me the go ahead.

Whoa.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can I ask you this?

[Caller]

He said, yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

And this is what inquiring minds want to know. What's the parachute? How do you get at it? Like, because when I. When I'm making a big decision, Ryan, one of the things I do is I take some time and I look at the upside and I look at all the opportunity. I think we should do that. I think that's great. But I also, I love to play out the worst case scenario because generally if I play out the worst case scenario and I realize, oh, I'll be okay in the end, that's a good indicator of whether I'm going to still try it or not. So we have not played out the worst case scenario, which in my mind, and you stop me if I'm wrong in my mind is, worst case scenario, I make the 90,000. But the farm as a whole is losing money, and it's losing money year over year. Because, by the way, I hear we have a lot of Farmers that call in with that issue. It's losing money year over year. Maybe you don't like it, maybe you realize what the farming practices are. I don't know, I've read a lot of books on it. So maybe you're like, man, I can't do this. This is tough on me. It's hard on the soul or whatever. And you just don't like it and you're losing money and you're four or five years in and you still got $3.5 million of debt because the interest is high and whatever. What do you do? I feel like Keanu Reeves. What do you do?

[Caller]

That's a good question. So I haven't totally thought of that.

[George Campbell]

I'm just thinking of the minimum payment on a three and a half million dollar loan. And then you've got to make that at least every month plus enough to live.

[Jade Warshaw]

He's guaranteed 90 and that's not going to be enough to cover that.

[George Campbell]

Well, who's servicing the loan?

[Caller]

So it would be a farm credit and maybe this might be a little confusing. So I'm guaranteed the roughly half a million dollars a year. 90 would just be what I'm profiting into my bank account. The other 200 or 188 or no, sorry, I'm looking at the wrong numbers. Roughly 300,000 would be going back towards the loan.

[George Campbell]

You pay off the loan.

[Caller]

Yeah,

[Jade Warshaw]

that doesn't go toward upkeep of the farm. And just like who, who keeps up the farm and repairs things that go wrong and all just normal business wear and tear.

[Caller]

So these are the numbers I got from the poultry producer about their, what their growers are experiencing. And it does include miscellaneous repairs, insurance, electric, taxes.

[George Campbell]

I'd go talk to someone who did exactly what you are attempting to do and get the full picture. I'm not going to trust the poultry producer who has a vested interest in you taking on all of this risk. Because I'm telling you, why would they put this on a 23 year old if it was such a money making scheme, they would be taking on the risk instead of you.

[Caller]

I actually did talk to a producer. He's about my age. He did only do half the size, so he put up two chicken houses. But looking at the. I took the numbers over to him, had dinner and looked at it and he said these numbers are pretty accurate for what he's making now. There's, there's rougher months and there's better months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let me put one more, let me put one more thing to you and My husband says this a lot because he runs our business. When he's dealing with a major company like Disney or Carnival or you know, one of these major overarching, he doesn't take on the risk because they're billion dollar companies. So if you're working with Tyson or Purdue or whoever, this big chicken houses, I'm going 3.5 million. They eat that for breakfast. Why do. Why do you have to go into debt when they could throw up those four chicken houses in two seconds and simply just pay you a salary for running the farm? There's something about this that doesn't smell right.

[George Campbell]

And I'm not passing the smell of you don't do it, please. And I don't even know. We didn't ask about income and current debts, but you're making 40k. You are not in a place to be taking on this venture. With a baby on the way, I would run far away.

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[George Campbell]

If you're sick and tired of working super hard and having nothing to show for it, that is normal. And normal is broke. You don't have to live that way. Our EveryDollar budget app helps you find extra money every month and helps you build a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. And in just 15 minutes you'll find thousands in hidden margin and you'll feel like you got a raise. So don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start everydollar for free in the app store or Google Play. Angela is in Washington, D.C. up next. What's going on? Angela?

[Caller]

Hi. I have a question. Me and my husband are currently going through infertility treatment, and we were wondering, would it be better to pay off some of our debt? We're going to be going through it in September or to save up for future expenses with our baby in daycare. Wow.

[George Campbell]

Okay, where are you guys at right now? How much debt do you have?

[Caller]

So we have. We have my car, which is 25, and then we have his first degree alone, which is 50K.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and what do you guys make?

[Caller]

I make 52,000 and he makes 72,000. Coming up in August.

We're both teachers, so you're getting raises.

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so making 120k. Great salary. We got 75k in consumer debt. And what are these infertility treatments costing you?

[Caller]

They are not costing us anything because we received a grant that pays for all of it in September.

[George Campbell]

That's amazing. And that's guaranteed. How many treatments does that cover?

[Caller]

What was that?

[George Campbell]

How many treatments does it cover? Is it indefinite or is it for a certain amount?

[Caller]

So it is for embryo adoption in September, and it covers one treatment.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so what you said earlier when you said, should we pay off debt or should we save up money for treatment, are you thinking that you could need treatment beyond September or beyond what your grant gives you?

[Caller]

That could be a possibility, considering that it's like a 50, 50 chance.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and if you did need money, what would it cost? Let me phrase it like that.

[Caller]

It would cost about $8,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, eight. Yes.

[Caller]

Yes, $8,000.

Great.

[George Campbell]

Well, here's my vote. Jade may disagree, but I would just go full throttle baby step two, start knocking out these debts, and then let's say that it didn't work out and now we have to pay for the treatment. It's okay to Pause Baby step two for a little while to save up that 8K and then restart. But I wouldn't just disagree. I wouldn't just hang on to the debt indefinitely until we know. So I would make more than the minimum payments just to make some progress. You might knock out a few debts and then realize, all right, we need to pause for four months, save up for the treatment, and then hit play on the baby steps again.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, and with your income, that really shouldn't be a problem. How old are you guys?

[Caller]

I am 32 and my husband is 36.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So, yeah, I 100% agree with George's plan that. But that feels like you're kind of making Progress on your. On your big goals, but you always also have a plan in case you need the 8,000, and that's what I do.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And to be clear, if this. If you didn't have the grant, if this was costing you ten grand, we would say, hey, just pause the baby steps and save up. The goal is to not go into any more debt. So that's kind of the step one. Is it going to cost us debt to continue this process? If so, we need a pause in cash flow. But because you guys have this grant, I would just go ahead and start knocking out some of these debts. Maybe you get halfway through by the time you realize, all right, we need to hit play on saving up for the treatment, but I hope for you guys, it works out by September. That's awesome.

[Jade Warshaw]

Best of luck to you.

[George Campbell]

All right. Zephaniah is in Austin, Texas. You don't get those very often. What's going on, Zephaniah?

[Caller]

Hello, George and Jade. Basically, what's going on is I'm $28,000 and some change, like, in debt right now with a car that I got, like, six months ago. And I'm about to get married, and I really don't want to go into the marriage, like, with. With all the debt. And so I was wondering, like, what were my options to kind of do to get rid of it?

[Jade Warshaw]

You owe 28, 000 on the car. What's it worth?

[Caller]

So the. The car for private sale that I. That I looked and seen, it was like. I think it was like 18. It was like 16 to 18, I think, is what I could get for it. It's a 2025 Toyota Corolla.

[George Campbell]

You can only get 16 for a 20, 25 Corolla.

[Jade Warshaw]

Boy, did you roll some negative debt into their negative equity.

[Caller]

I'm not. I'm not totally sure. No, I did not. I didn't have a car before.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Just a bad interest rate.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm at an 18%.

[George Campbell]

Gracious.

[Jade Warshaw]

That'll do.

[George Campbell]

How did you get screwed that badly?

[Caller]

I was just really desperate for a car and have a car, and I really needed one, and they let me put, like, 1500 down and they. Yeah, they put me in 18%, I guess.

[George Campbell]

Let me make this clear, Zephaniah. You put yourself in 18%.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

It's not to knock you, but I want you to own the parts. You just said I needed a car. Did you need a $30,000 car?

[Caller]

No. Yeah, I just.

[George Campbell]

There was too much of a pause there. It should have been the quickest no of your life.

[Jade Warshaw]

No.

[George Campbell]

So here's the deal. Here's where we are. Here's the reality. You're $10,000 underwater. You got to come up with that 10,000. There's two ways to do it. Either you save up 10,000 cash, or you go down to your local credit union and get a personal loan for 10,000, plus whatever you might need for a beater car. And I'm talking 4,000, 5,000 bucks off Facebook Marketplace. Max. That's the only way out. If you said, hey, I want to get out by the wedding, that's the way to do it. How much do you make?

[Caller]

About 40,000 a year in pest control.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Is there upside there? Can you make 50, 60? If you started hustling, I could.

[Caller]

There's opportunity for upsells and upgrades here. Get about $150 every single one.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Because I know you can make really good money in pest control. The guys who are crushing it are not making 40. They're making 100 plus.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So I would be aiming to make more money. That's going to be part of this process. Do you have any other debt outside of the 28k car loan?

[Caller]

So we're, like, engaged. I have her ring two. And then finally, yeah, I did. I did.

[George Campbell]

How much was that?

[Caller]

I think it was like 800. But, like, I. I wanted to get. I had the cash for it, but I wanted to get, like, the coverage for the ring, and they were gonna charge me more, so I was just like, okay, you took.

[George Campbell]

Why do you coverage?

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's pull back. Because here's what I see what's going on. And you're not the only person, Zephaniah, who falls victim to this. You. You walk in the place, and you probably have something in your mind, oh, I want to get a car. Oh, I want to get a ring. And then somebody says, well, you get this one. We'll give you this deal. And you. You kind of. Before you know it, you're getting swindled into paying more. You're getting swindled into paying in a way that you didn't plan to pay. In this case, you went into payments instead of using cash. You've got to decide who you are with money, and don't let the salesperson decide for you. That's the one piece of advice I want you to take from this entire call is Zephaniah has to decide who. What. What is my money philosophy. Am I person who doesn't borrow money? If that's the case, it doesn't matter if I walk into a jeweler, a car lot or publix, I'm not borrowing money. I'm not putting it on a credit card. I'm not putting it on payments. That way when you walk into those places, no matter what they say, you just go, no thank you and you just move on. Right now you're kind of just going with whatever the salesperson tells you. So as you get married and as you grow into being a, an older adult, please, please, please, you decide who you are with money. Nobody changes that. So that's thing one and thing two is just remember these people are sales people. They're not. The business they're in is not to do you a favor, okay? Just remember that there is a hero and a villain in every story. And I'm not saying that the person who sold you a ring was a bad guy. I'm not saying villain like they're a bad person. I'm simply saying their point is to make money. Your point is to save money. Your point is to stick to your guns and stick to your philosophy on money. So just understand the two roles when you go into those situations and I think that's going to help you out a lot in the long run going forward.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

What does your fiance make right now?

[Caller]

She is not working. She just landed a job part time at a, at an after school program and she'll, she'll be making like 21 an hour.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

There.

[George Campbell]

Cool. Well, you'll both be making about 40 at that point you'll have 80k. And so even if you went into the marriage and you still had this debt, you guys could knock this out fast and save up 10k and get out of it and get a cheaper car. You don't need to be driving a thirty thousand dollar car. If you make forty, that is simply too much.

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[George Campbell]

Jim is in Laredo, Texas. Up next. What's going on, Jim?

[Caller]

Hey, what's up? I just want to ask a question. Should I pay my business loan with my personal savings?

[George Campbell]

How much debt do you have?

[Caller]

I have 57 on a. Okay. I got 57 on one truck, 20,000 on another truck, 30,000 on. On trailers, and I got 82,000 in a personal and business truck that I use as a personal and business truck.

[George Campbell]

You got trucks on trucks?

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you the only employee? Are you the only owner? How's the business set up?

[Caller]

I'm the only owner, and I got another employee.

[George Campbell]

Okay. What kind of business?

[Caller]

It's a hotshot business.

[George Campbell]

Hotshot. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

What. What's Hot Shot?

[George Campbell]

It's. You're doing, like, courier work.

[Caller]

Every work, like trucking. But I don't have my CDL yet, so I'm doing Hot Shot for right now.

[George Campbell]

So you're doing deliveries.

[Caller]

Deliveries.

[George Campbell]

Okay, got it. What are you making?

[Caller]

Because I'm new. It takes a. When you're new, it takes about 3, 4 months to start getting that business. So now that. Right now that I'm new, me and my other driver running, I'm probably making. I want to see about 12. 12 to 13,000amonth.

[Announcer]

Great.

[Jade Warshaw]

And Ronnie makes that, too. Your other driver?

[Caller]

No, no, that's in me and my. My other driver working together. We make it between.

[George Campbell]

So what do you take home?

[Caller]

Thousand dollars. Take home. That's. That's take home 12 to 13,000.

[George Campbell]

But you're not taking it. You said it's split.

[Caller]

No, no, no. I mean both of them combined. Because I'm. I. What I do, we grow. We gross about 25. 25 to 30,000amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And. And after the expenses, it's about. About 12. 12 to 15,000amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Huh. And then who gets what? How much do you take home to your family? And how much does your other driver take home to his family?

[Caller]

Okay. It's a. It's a percentage deal. So for whatever he makes, I pay him 23%. And I usually just pay myself a salary of a thousand a week.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Oh, got it.

[George Campbell]

4k a week is what you're taking in. How much do you have in savings?

[Caller]

I have $320,000 in savings. And I. And I got 82,000 with a financial advisor that I just put in last week.

[George Campbell]

So why all the Debt. If you have all the savings, why not cash flow?

[Caller]

This, man. It's because my credit started getting great. Right. I have never had a good credit. My credit started getting great and I just started piling and getting everything under credit. I do have rental properties that bring me in about 2000amonth. Because I live in a small town which rent is not that expensive. So it brings me in about 2,000amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much debt is on those rentals?

[Caller]

Zero. I got everything paid off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Way to go.

[George Campbell]

So your only debt is this, this business debt, all these trucks and trailers?

[Caller]

Yes. I got my house paid off. I got my rental properties paid off.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[Caller]

300. The $320,000 I have, I have them in a high yield savings account. So they give me about $800 a month on it.

[George Campbell]

Awesome.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so we've got, if I calculated quickly, what is this? Around 190. $190,000 of debt.

[George Campbell]

So you could pay all of the debts off and still be left with 133,000 sitting in high yield savings.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

That's pretty sweet. Have you done the math on what your cash flow would be if you didn't have any of those payments?

[Caller]

If I didn't have any of those payments, it will usually be about. Around. If everything continues as low as it is right now, it'll probably be about 12,000. 12,000amonth.

[George Campbell]

Dude, I'm going for that life. That's freedom. If things slow down, you're not stressing because guess what, the lenders don't care how slow things are. And you signed on that business debt, right? It's your signature.

[Caller]

Yes. Well, my question is this because I wanted to pay all everything except my personal business truck, which is 82,000. And I do have some cattles, right? I have about $13,000 worth of cattles on a property I'm renting for 5,000amonth. And I was about. I think I'm selling that so I can put it in getting my debt over.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I would still pay off everything regardless of I can pay this off and then pay this off. You can pay it all off today. So if you sell anything else that's just pure profit, you can do what

[Jade Warshaw]

you want with that in your mind. What would be the. What's the upside of keeping the debt? What's the upside?

[Caller]

Just. Just on the personal and business truck, I want to keep that one because it's a motivation I get for working. You know, it's a motivation.

[George Campbell]

You're motivated by the debt to work

[Caller]

harder, but on that Business truck one on my business truck, you know, because it was a truck I always wanted, so that's why I got it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, we're not saying to sell it. We're simply saying to pay it off. So we're not saying get rid of it.

[George Campbell]

It'll have just as much sentimental value without a payment attached to it. So here's the Ramsey principle. We recommend everyone start and run and grow their businesses completely debt free because we have seen what the other side looks like. People call in, the business didn't make it, something happened, a partner wanted out, and they are stuck because of these payments.

[Jade Warshaw]

It also changes the choices you make when you have debt on a business. Everything is about making sure you're in line to make the next payment. Everything is filtered through the lens of risk and debt. When everything is paid for, it changes the choices that you make. I mean, take a moment. I don't know how easy it is for you to compartmentalize this, but surely you understand the difference of feeling you had when your house had a payment on it versus when your house became debt free, when your rentals had payments versus when your rentals became debt free. There was a reason that you worked so hard to achieve that. And we're simply saying, take that same logic and throw it over to this business set. We think that you'll feel better about the state of your affairs if you do that.

[Caller]

And can I, after all that money, also have. Because I. I always had a system, right. To always keep $30,000 in my business account. Yep. So I also have those $30,000 on business accounts.

[Jade Warshaw]

Keep that there.

[Caller]

I do got. And I do got toy trucks, you know, and people and like my family members, because I talked to a couple of my family members. They tell me to sell them, but they're like my toy trucks. I don't know if I should.

[George Campbell]

These are real trucks, but they're just entertainment for you.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

They're in cash. They're paid off.

[Caller]

Yeah, they're. They're all paid off. I have a. It's an 87 Chevrolet. I put in about 11, 000 and last week they offered me 20,000 in it.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think it's up to you. I think it's up to you what feels better. Do you want your toy trucks because you like them or do you want to liquidate some of your savings? That's totally up to you how you do it. Maybe you sell the cattle and the land. You know what, whatever you want to do, that's up to you. We just think that across all of your assets, you have the ability to pay off this $190,000 in debt very, very easily.

[George Campbell]

There's tons left over.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Do it.

[George Campbell]

After everything you said, Jim, I'm like, how does this guy carry this all in his brain? You got nine businesses. There's debts all over the place. Assets, toy trucks. I would just want to simplify my life if I was doing as well. Part of that is getting completely debt free. Appreciate the call. All right, let's go out to Landon in Rochester real quick. What's going on, Landon?

[Caller]

Not too much. Thanks for taking my call.

[George Campbell]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[Caller]

So me and my fiance are on baby step number four. We just graduated college in December debt free. And I'm just curious. I've been putting a lump sum into my Roth for the last couple of years. At the end of my summer job in September, should I keep putting in a lump sum now that I got a big boy job out of college, or do I spread it out and have it take out of my checking, you know, through the 12 months?

[George Campbell]

So you're really asking do I do lump sum or dollar cost? Average, yes. Okay, well, here's the theory. And again, nobody knows what the markets are going to do, but the sooner you get the money in and the longer you let it sit, the better off you're going to be. So if you lump sum in January versus putting it January, February, March, April, May, and spreading it, you will likely do better if you lump sum it every January.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's also a psychological component of when you can set it and forget it. Right. It's automatically taken out of your check. It's not something that you're thinking of. My contributions come out of my check automatically. I never even count the money because I never even saw it to begin with. And if you do a lump sum, let's pretend the markets are up or really down, whatever. It makes you feel awkward. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

At the end of your summer gig, now it's September, and you're like, ooh, the market took a dip and now I'm gonna lump sum it. Well, hey, you're buying it on sale, or, hey, the market's doing really well. Well, you're buying it at the top.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's that piece of it and there's a piece of. Now, you've got to trust yourself that I'm putting this money aside, I'm saving it. It has to stay there, and hopefully there's not a wedding in the Caribbean. That sounds really good to me. Right. And I use that money for that instead.

[George Campbell]

You sound pretty disciplined in which you've been doing this for years now.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm. I mean, I pretty much owe everything to my parents for letting me do this. They're pretty big believers in you guys. I. I've been listening to this show since my dad was picking me up at elementary school when I was like,

[George Campbell]

oh, I'm glad Dave's not here. That'd make him feel real old. But I love it, man. It's a. It's a great problem to have, if you're even asking this question. It tells me you are going to build generational wealth. So keep it up. Just keep investing, no matter what.

[Caller]

What?

[George Campbell]

Here's what nobody warns you about. You're behind on payments. You signed up with some debt settlement company. You're making your monthly payments to them, and then one morning, a process server knocks on your door. Surprise. You just got sued by a creditor. And that company you trusted, not a law firm. They're not built to represent you if things escalate. And now you're scrambling to figure out what to do next. And that's why I tell people about Guardian Litigation Group. Guardian Litigation is not a call center. They're actual attorneys at a law firm. And from day one, you're assigned a real attorney who can represent you if a creditor takes you to court. No scrambling when things go sideways. Just real legal protection built in from the start. And look, the best way out of debt is still the budget, the plan, the baby steps. But if you're already in default and legal threats are coming your way, Guardian has your back. Their attorneys have helped over 55,000 people settle more than $600 million in debt. So get real legal [e-mail] Ramsey. That's guardianlit.com Ramsey Attorney Advertising Results may vary and no specific outcomes guaranteed. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here. Here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls at 888-255-2225. Sarah is in Baltimore. What's going on, Sarah?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for taking my call, guys.

[George Campbell]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

My question is, how do I handle the stress of being the person in my family responsible for making the financial decisions?

[Announcer]

Wow.

[George Campbell]

That was the nicest way to say I'm resentful of my husband for not being involved in the financial decisions.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Why is it like that?

[Caller]

So my husband is really bad with numbers. Like, we're fairly confident he has, like, a learning disability with math. He's bad with numbers.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

He's just so there's something going on. Because the thing is, he trusts me a lot and he will do whatever I tell him to, even if it's uncomfortable for him. If I tell him it's a no spend week until bills get paid on Friday, he won't spend a dime. The first week where we really got serious about doing Ramsey Plan and stopping with the credit cards was the week of Father's Day. And I didn't have anything planned for Father's Day. And I said, I don't have anything planned. If we want this to be like our last hurrah with a credit card to do something special for you for Father's Day because you did something special for me for Mother's Day, I can do that. And he said, no, this is the plan that you said we're supposed to do. And so we're going to do it right. He trusts me a lot. It's terrifying, but okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's two. I'm seeing this in two ways, though. There's. I'm bad with numbers, meaning I don't like arithmetic and I don't like crunching numbers and I don't. Do you see what I'm saying? Like that there's that side of it and then there's the side of if you explain something to me, if it has anything to do with money, I don't get it. And it doesn't sound like it's that. It sounds like he's just not interested in crunching numbers and doing the arithmetic part of it. But it sounds like he's willing to be part of the plan and it sounds like he's willing to go over the budget with you and agree to the numbers. Am I missing something?

[Caller]

No. Yes. He's willing. He just does whatever I tell him is the right thing to do.

[George Campbell]

But I think what's happening is here is my wife calls this the mental load. There are things that he never has to deal with that are stressing you out and you're feeling like, man, I'm carrying 95% of this in my head and I feel like he should be pulling more weight.

[Caller]

Yeah. And then so we're. The debt picture is not pretty. We've got about 87,000 in consumer debt and 217,000 left on our mortgage.

[George Campbell]

Okay, what do you guys make?

[Caller]

So what we are going to be making, I work for the school system and I just got into a full time position. At the end of the year. He pre tax brings in about 65. And I pre tax, I'M gonna be bringing in about 67.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so let's pan back just real quick. So George said it beautifully. You're feeling the mental load. And it shouldn't be that way, because what we teach is that both people should have a say in the budget. It's okay if one person's more of a nerd and likes numbers and the other person hates numbers, that's okay. But both people have to have a say and a vote. And for the person who tends to be way more relaxed, like, yeah, honey, whatever you want to do, that's not allowed. And the reason that's not allowed, because right now it may feel like they're checking out. And obviously right now the mental load becomes more for you. But on down the road, you don't know when he's going to decide he cares. And he might wake up and decide, oh, gosh, I feel like I don't have a voice, or I feel like she's lording this over me, or I feel like she's controlling and now there's some resentment that has the potential to breed or on your side. Man, I've been carrying this for years. He doesn't care. Right. So over time, the stakes on this get really high. And so today, what you need to do is go to him and say, I understand that I'm more of the nerd. I understand that I'm more of the mathematician. But I need for you, when we go over the budget, I need for you to come to me with three suggestions every time. That's the only thing I need from you. So I know that you're asserting your opinion. It's important for me to hear your opinion. And it helps me feel like I'm not carrying this all by myself because I don't want to. And I think if you let him know that that could help. Have you done that?

[Caller]

That.

So I have. And his response to that has been that I. His response to that has been, I can help by doing. And so he does. He works his butt off, and he gets all the overtime we can give him. He cares about it. It's truly because I've heard the stories and I've seen the marriages where the husband checks out, doesn't care. Yeah, whatever you want to do. I'm not really invested in this.

[George Campbell]

So what are you actually wanting from him?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Then what do you want?

[George Campbell]

Like, if I waved a magic wand, what would he be doing differently in this marriage?

[Caller]

Oh, what a thought.

[George Campbell]

I'm just wondering how much of this is on you to Just own like you go to therapy, you know what I mean? Versus it sounds like everything you're saying, oh no, he's great. I just, I can't help but think about all this more than he does.

[Jade Warshaw]

Cause it is stressful, Sarah. Being in debt is stressful. And you do feel a weight. There is a physical weight that you feel managing this and carrying this until it's done. I'll be the first to tell you. And George knows about it too. So maybe that's just what you're feeling. And I will tell you there are points where you do want to offload it onto someone else. And when you're carrying that stress of debt, anything that happens, I mean you're talking to someone who was in 460 and so anything that would happen. I was looking for ways to blame Sam Warshaw. I was just looking for a chance.

[George Campbell]

So I totally unleash some of this pent up emotion.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

There that I blame myself. About half of the debt we're in is directly my fault.

[George Campbell]

What kind of debt is this? The 87.

[Caller]

So about 10 of its credit cards and like small loans to my family. 17 of it is student loans which would have been forgiven if I had actually applied for my employer's tuition reimbursement. And I couldn't figure out the process.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's okay. You got to let it go.

[Caller]

22 is a HELOC and we owe 36,000 to my parents because our house was built in the 50s and had asbestos siding covered in lead paint. And it started to fall apart and so we had to get the sighting redone before my 2 year old stuck asbestos and lead paint in his mouth. But my parents, we have like a formal loan set up with them, loaned us that money at 0%. So it's still a part of our snowball. We're still hopefully going to pay it off before it comes due. We're making payments on it.

[George Campbell]

But what is the game plan here? Have you guys sat down and said, all right, we're going to be debt free in 18 months.

[Caller]

So I've made it all out and we are going to be debt free by September of 2031.

What?

[Jade Warshaw]

That's too long.

[George Campbell]

I just did some math. Sarah, you guys bring home, you'll be bringing home 8,000amonth.

[Announcer]

Month.

[Caller]

Right. I pay $575 a week in daycare.

[George Campbell]

I'm saying you bring. What will you be bringing home?

[Caller]

Bringing home. We should be bringing home after taxes and insurance.

What?

I'm 32, he's 36.

[George Campbell]

My guess was about 100K.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now at yeah. But I, I also am wondering, do you need an every dollar budget? Because when you have an every dollar budget, you know those numbers lickety split. So we're going to make sure that you have that because it's going to help you. You might be doing a spreadsheet. I'm not mad at you, but every dollar is going to help you more. So we're going to give you that for free. Also, I'm going to give you my book. What? No one tells you about money. Because the things that you were laying out are exactly to the te. The things that I'm talking about in the book. Everywhere from parents loaning you money to having student loans bones to feeling the weight, to feel all of that is in the book. So you're gonna get that for free. And September of 2031.

[George Campbell]

No, I'm going 20, 28, 3, 600. A month out of your 8K, you're done in two years. It was that simple. Now go for it. Business owners know it costs money to make the phone ring. Maybe it's advertising, maybe it's referrals, maybe it's years of earning trust. But when that call goes unanswered, all that work can disappear in a hurry. And that's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q U O. The business phone system built so you never miss a call. With Quo, you and your team share one business number so you can reply faster and stay on top of every customer conversation. Quo works from your phone or computer, logs calls, summarizes conversations and gives you next steps. Nothing gets missed and every customer gets a response. And here's what I really like. Quo's built in AI agent can answer questions, handle after hours calls and even help book appointments. So you're not losing leads just because your team is offline. You didn't start a business to spend your days playing phone tag and digging through texts. Quo helps make sure you don't ghost to customers you've worked so hard, hard to attract. Money is on the line, so always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free. Plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to Quo.com Ramsey. That's Qu-U O.com Ramsey. Heading to Columbia, South Carolina. Up next, Reese joins us there. Reese, welcome to the show. Hey George, what's going on? Oh, we're losing you. Speak directly in your phone a little better.

[Jade Warshaw]

Go to another room of the house.

[Caller]

Yes, can you hear me?

Good.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, that's better.

[Caller]

Awesome. Taking my call. Jade and George, my question is how do I make sure I'm going into the into business with the right motives? I want to make sure I'm not needlessly guilty myself over wanting to make a profit. But also I make sure I'm not chasing a dollar every day. I just graduated college, no debt, and I'm a Christian, and I want to have the proper values about everything, but I just don't want to get sidetracked along the way.

[Jade Warshaw]

What are your thoughts on getting paid for a job well done? Receiving what you earn for a job really well done.

[Caller]

I think that's a great thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, then.

[George Campbell]

All right. Do you have a job now?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Campbell]

What do you do?

[Caller]

Manufacturing.

[George Campbell]

And what do you want to be doing with this business?

[Caller]

It'll be in sales. My family works in sales and I've worked in sales. I enjoy it. I just got manufacturing in college.

[George Campbell]

I'm confused. You want to start a business in sales. What are you selling?

[Caller]

Sheds. Sheds, like lots locations. I know the business really well and I know it'll do really well.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you want to sell sheds as a business?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you work for a manufacturing company. How do you get paid right now? Is it out of the profits of the business?

[Caller]

Hourly.

[George Campbell]

Okay, but I'm saying the way they pay you is they make money. Money. They take a portion of that money and they pay you.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Would you consider them to have bad motives in doing that?

[Caller]

No. No.

[Jade Warshaw]

So where does the line come? What do you think? You described to us what it looks like. My screen says, how do I start a business without idolizing money or success? You explain to us what that looks like because then we'll know if you know what it looks like, then you'll know if you're venturing over into that territory. So what does that look like?

[Caller]

Like, so open one location I have where. Where I have in mind. I know it'll do really well. It'll provide more than my basic necessity necessities and needs. And looking down the road five years, I'm like, I'm knowing I could impossibly two or three or four of these lots.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And when I question why would I want to? And I'm like, well, I mean, obviously it's going to make more money. I can help more people. I can provide good jobs for people. But it's. I feel a small amount of guilt where I'm just. First thing that comes to mind is, oh, I'll make more money. And I'm Just worried about if I go into that with that mindset that maybe lot two, three or four, I don't know, I'm worried about chasing a dollar more than providing a good moral service.

[Jade Warshaw]

I see. I mean, I can understand what you're saying to an extent, but one thing that I've learned about money, I know George has learned this and you've probably heard Dave say it, but when you are really good at something, you do tend to earn more. And what money does to you, it doesn't make you bad, it doesn't make you evil. It tends to make people more of what they already are. And so you're already a kind hearted person. I can hear that. You're already a generous person. I can hear that. You're already a very thoughtful person. I can hear that. So it's probably going to bring more of that out in you. You're probably going to become more generous, you're probably going to become more thoughtful, all of those things. I can tell you this and join George. George and I peeked at the screen during the break and we kind of read a little bit of what the call was about and we thought to ourselves, gosh, the person who had the ability to idolize money would never call in saying, I'm afraid I'm going to idolize money.

[George Campbell]

So that kind of solved our problem. Like, all right, Reese is not going to be an issue.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're not that guy.

[George Campbell]

I appreciate that you're thinking about this.

[Caller]

That was all I needed. I guess that's all I needed.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, well, there's no scripture that says making a profit is evil. So the question is, who is being hurt in the process of making these profits? Do you treat your team well? Do you treat your customers well? Are you doing everything ethically? Then you kind of know, all right, this is above board. So scaling a business, it's not. You're not more, you know, better morally or have more virtue because you kept your business small.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

You know what I mean? That doesn't make you a better person than the guy who is scaled to 48 locations. So I don't want you to look at scaling as the immoral thing. I think it's always good to question where is this ambition coming from? Am I actually discontent? Is it greed? Is it pride? What's driving this? And that helps you kind of gut check yourself along the way. But I'm excited for you to start this business. We need more good entrepreneurs out there and I hope you're one of them.

[Caller]

Reece, I appreciate it. Thank y' all.

[George Campbell]

Absolutely.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love that question. I think that it's good that he's thinking about that. And I always think about the scripture. It's in Deuteronomy 8:18, and it says, but remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth. And so that just reminds me. Oh, like he's giving me the ability to do this. It's not a bad thing, it's not a negative thing. All of the things point back to character, which is what you said earlier. Are you being a good person? Is your character morally right? All of those things are kind of separate from the matter. But producing wealth is a good thing.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I mean, profit equals abundance. And somehow we've confused abundance with evil.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And what you do with that abundance is very telling.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

But money is amorous. I mean, you know, a brick can be used to build a hospital. It can be used to break some windows. You get to decide. So I hope that helps Race. Appreciate the call. Joe is in Boise up next. What's going on, Joe?

[Caller]

Not a whole lot. How you guys doing today?

[George Campbell]

We're doing well. How can we help?

[Caller]

Oh, just looking to see if I should sell my house. I've got quite a bit of equity in it and unfortunately we had to pull out of our 401k just to put a new roof on the floor. I did have to work myself, but I just, you know, wonder when I should cut my losses because we just are not going to be able to buy what we have locally.

[George Campbell]

Can you not afford the payment or are there other issues?

[Caller]

No, we can afford the payment. It's just those, you know, those homeowner issues, like a neighbor, for instance, you know, like it's going in on Friday.

[George Campbell]

Like, if an emergency fund solves your problems, let's not sell the house.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

Well, that's just. It is we. We depleted it and then some, and then we get it up again and then something else comes up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell us what you pay every month. What's the mortgage?

[Caller]

The mortgage is 22.

[George Campbell]

And what do you guys bring home every month? What's your after tax monthly income?

[Caller]

So it's 70 a year before tax. So call it like 38.

[George Campbell]

38.

[Jade Warshaw]

That doesn't feel right. Right. That feels.

[George Campbell]

You don't live in Canada.

[Caller]

Why.

[George Campbell]

Why are they taking half your taxes?

[Caller]

I got the before tax members, not the after. So you have to pardon me.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I'm saying don't count 401k. We're not investing right now. While we got debt, don't count health care. We're just saying what is like after your federal and state taxes are paid. We're bringing in, let's say 4,500amonth.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's, that's probably closer to it. You have to pardon me. My wife's actually the, the breadwinner and I'm the stay at home parent, yet I make all the financial decisions for us in the household.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so based on that, your mortgage is half of your take home pay.

[Caller]

Correct. So I've already. It helps that there's multiple structures on the property and I've turned one of them into a rental. So we're generating 1500amonth from that on

[George Campbell]

top of your 4500.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so that brings us up to 6K. Now it's a little over a third of your take home pay. We recommend 25% of take home pay going towards your housing, whether that's rent, your mortgage. And so you're still over the line. That's still. It's putting you guys on a slight pinch, but I'm guessing there's a lot of other debts as well that you're trying to pay off.

[Caller]

No, we actually have no debt. We have no car payments, no student loans, nothing. So we essentially took everything we had and invested it into this place. And it helps to note that we essentially paid half price. It appraised at 500 and we paid 290. So I mean, anyone would have, would have jumped at the opportunity.

[Jade Warshaw]

So then this is a monthly cash flow problem. This is a month to month cash flow issue. Because, you know, a third is a little bit more than I'd want for a mortgage to be. But if you're saying you have no debt, no nothing else going on, I'm looking and I'm thinking, and you're staying home with the kids, so we don't have an astronomical daycare bill. I'm wondering if this is a budget issue. Do you guys have a budget?

[Caller]

Yeah, we definitely have a budget. It just seems like lately all those costs keep going up and up. You know, $4 a gallon here. You know, groceries just cost, it seems like every week now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, what's your margin? When you, when you do the budget, what's your margin at the end of the month?

[Caller]

You mean like percentage wise?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, what's left over after margin is money that's left over after your bills are paid and after.

[Caller]

Mm, yeah.

[George Campbell]

So you bring home 6, 22.

[Caller]

Under the mortgage, we probably have close to $1,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Over and above all of the business bills. And then so so you do have. It also helps to note that the house that I'm living in that I converted is half finished. I'm fine. Fine.

[George Campbell]

Well, here's the good news. You guys have a thousand in margin every month. Let's set up an emergency fund so we never have to be in this position again. I wouldn't sell the house. Foreign. If you're waiting for the perfect interest rate before you buy a home or refinance, that moment may never come. That's why people should talk to Churchill Mortgage because rates move every day. And when rates drop, buyers flood the market, which means more competition and higher home prices. Smart buyers know they can't time the market. They move with a strategy. Buy the home you can afford now and refinance later if rates improve. Churchill helps you understand what you can actually afford, not just what you qualify for. And with their Certified Home Buyer program, you can get fully underwritten before you shop so you can make moves faster and make stronger offers. And right now, Churchill has a special offer only for the Ramsey audience. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com RamsayOffer to learn more. That's a special website. Remember this Churchill Mortgage.com Ramsay offer? This is a paid advertisement. The Churchill Certified Home Buyer Program is available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only. NMLS ID 1591 nmlsconsumerexcess.org/housing lender 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100 Brentwood, TN 37027. Our question of the day is brought to you by yrefi. When past due private student loans keep pulling you backwards, it's hard to focus on what's ahead. Why Refi helps borrowers with low fixed rate refinancing options that fit your budget so you can focus on the Future again. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okey dokey. Today's question comes from Brendan in Wyoming. He says my wife and I are tackling our combined debt of $60,000 dollars. Her student loan balances total 9,000 and mine total 51,000. I keep telling her we should just tackle all her debts first and then dive into mine, but she keeps saying we should list each and every one of the loans and tackle them individually. I would really love some clarity on how to do the debt snowball method. Starting with her loans seems more doable to me and would give us a bigger shovel for the remaining ones. She is insistent that we should start with the smallest individual loan and Work our way up from there. There. Who's right? Okay.

[George Campbell]

As usual, it's her.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, she's right. And I, you know, Brendan, I understand what you're saying. I, I. There's worse things you could probably do in life than do what you're saying. So I'm not saying, like, what you're suggesting is bad or evil or wrong or anything like that, but if you're walking the Ramsey way, which is proven over millions of people over 30 years, that this is the best method, the debt snowball. And the reason for it is for people who really want to see it through the end and actually pay off their debt, the percentages are higher of people who actually pay off all of their debt, not just some of it. They're higher when you do the debt snowball method. So to clarify, with the debt snowball method, you list all of your debts by balance, not interest rate, not what you owe monthly. It's by full balance, from smallest to largest. You pay minimum payments on everything. And the reason for that is we don't want to get behind. We don't want 1-800-pay-me calling you, which are also, you know, bill collectors. So pay minimum payments. And then whatever is left over after all that, whatever margin you have, you throw it at the smallest debt. And what it does ultimately is, let's say you have seven. A list of 17 different debts. You know, it feels really good to be able to knock off four of them, even if the balance was only 200 or 87 or 99. It just feels good psychologically to be able to, you know, cross those off. You feel good about it. You do get a dopamine hit, and that makes you feel like you want to keep going. So that's kind of the nuts and bolts of how to do that. That and George, I know you guys did it. You did it.

[George Campbell]

Oh, yeah. And I love. So I actually looked into this for my book, Jade Breaking Free from Broken. In there, I found that Time magazine and Harvard Business Review came out and said, it turns out Ramsey is right. Like, based on the actual research, the data, here's the quote. People are more motivated to get out of debt, not only by concentrating on one account, but also by beginning with the smallest. So it's a both. And it's all about momentum. You need a quick win. It's more about behavior than the number. So we wish you guys the best in this debt payoff. Come celebrate when you're done. All right, Ryan is in Charlotte on the phone. Up next, what's going On Ryan.

[Caller]

Hey, big fan of you guys. So, earlier this year, my sister had passed away in a car accident. So.

[George Campbell]

Sorry.

[Caller]

Recently, we'd recently received her AD&D and life insurance payout, and my parents had split it between my brother and I. And so I'm trying to figure out what the best way to make that money, like, what's the best way to put that money to work for me. I'm currently in baby step two, so.

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, first off, we're so sorry for your loss. That sounds incredibly difficult. Hate to hear that for you. The second thing is how much did you receive?

[Caller]

So it was $20,000.

Okay.

[George Campbell]

What do you have in debt right now for consumer debt?

[Caller]

So I just have student loans. They total up to just about 85,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So if you took that 20 and attacked the smallest balances, how many could you knock out?

[Caller]

Let's see, three. At least three. And then chunk another 10 into the big private one.

[George Campbell]

Sweet. So you'd be making some progress and freeing up some payments right there. And now you've. You're closer to the home stretch by doing that. How much do you make?

[Caller]

I make 65,000.

[George Campbell]

Is that your household income?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm single.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 25.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Private student loans tend to have higher interest rates in. In some cases, but because they're private, sometimes there's some wiggle room. So I might call over there and just see if there's anything that they can do about any of these interest rates, if there's any. Just wiggle room, if there's any that they'd be willing to make a deal with you on. I know for Sam and I, we were able to make a couple of deals on some of our private student loans. We were able to get the interest rate lowered on some of the them. Now, granted, we had them around a little bit longer than you, but it's worth a try. And a lot of times those get sold off anyway. They get moved around between different private companies. And when that happens, those are. That's generally the best time to try to make a deal. So call them up and try it. Especially now that you've got some cash, you might be able to get a couple of those for a little bit less.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I think the main thing that I'm wrestling with, I guess mentally and emotionally, is it feels like if my sister were still here and just gave me that money, what would she want me to do with it? I know that you guys talk all the time about the Sooner I get out of debt, then the more I can do those kind of things. And I don't like, I don't know if I put. Because she would really just want to travel and make memories and go on trips. I don't know if I take even three grand of that 20 and kind of sock that towards a trip fund, if you will, and then put the rest at work or. I guess that's my main struggle with this entire situation.

[Jade Warshaw]

Interesting, interesting.

[George Campbell]

I mean, that's probably about logic. Probably slows you down by maybe a couple of months. Right. On your actual debt free journey, if you threw 17 instead of 20.

[Caller]

I've done the math anywhere from putting 5k towards the loans up to the full 20. And I see how many months I'm saving if I don't put any towards debt.

[George Campbell]

There's also nothing wrong with attacking your debts and doing a trip once you're debt free.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's true.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'll be honest with you, Ryan. You know, there's part of me that I hear what you're saying about the wanting to honor what they would want. And there is something about a loss that you almost do need. Just a way to kind of unplug and restart. And sometimes taking a trip is the way to do that. Sometimes getting away from your normal environment to just kind of reset. So I'm actually not opposed to it. 3,000 is a lot of money. Maybe you do 2,015. Whatever you feel right about. I don't think that you're gonna do anything reckless, but I probably. How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 25.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm not opposed to something like that because of the nature of the money and how you received it and wanting to do something that you feel like is honoring to them and also maybe helping you heal too.

[Caller]

Yeah. And. And I think, I mean having like during this entire grieving and kind of healing process, I think having my, I guess, goals of. Because I've been so aggressive on paying down this debt ever. I mean, I really locked in December of last year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Before this even happened.

[Caller]

I've paid. Yes. I've paid like four federal loans off that were my smallest balances. And I just, I mean, there is light at the end of the tunnel for sure. And I know that if I really hunker down, then I can get out faster.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. At this rate, how fast will you get out? Let's say you threw all the inheritance at these debts. You got 65 left. You make 65. What would you be on track to do?

[Caller]

The math that I did with how much I'm paying extra on top of the minimums, I'd come out October of 29.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so we're talking about three years, which I mean the debt to income ratio. I would have some urgency about this. Most people we see, it's like half, half their debt to income ratio. So they make 100, they have 50k in debt. When I see someone making 65 who has 65 in debt, I kind of get some palpitations going. We need to get this income up. We need to get this done faster. The average is about two years. So if you're far off from that, you know, Jade had a story where she had almost half a million with her and her husband. So that took seven years. It looks different for everyone, but I don't want you to get comfortable either. Going, well, I'll take my time. But I do love marketing her legacy with some sort of trip. It doesn't need to be a $3,000 trip. It could be a non stop flight somewhere and it's a solo trip where you, you get to kind of honor what she meant to you. So, so sorry for your loss, man. And we are rooting for you on this debt free journey. The live like no one else cruise is back. And for all of you who are living debt free, we want you to join us in the Western Caribbean. This is the only cruise where you can hang out with us and Dave Ramsey for seven days in paradise, enjoying poolside chats, live Q and A sessions and so much more. And I'm already packing. Jade. I'm getting started early on this one. I know it's not until March Chats

[Jade Warshaw]

is what got me.

[George Campbell]

You're not going to be poolside.

[Jade Warshaw]

The poolside chats, let's get into it.

[George Campbell]

We'll see the. It was a blast the last time we did it and so we're bringing it back. And the ship? Ship's over halfway full already. The Neptune Suites have already sold out. So lock in your spot with a $600 deposit before it's too late. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramseysolutions.com events. I gotta work on my base tan.

[Announcer]

I realize.

[Jade Warshaw]

What was your favorite thing last time?

[George Campbell]

I think watching Ken Coleman, who no longer our coworker, but watching him play pickleball for about four hours with a headband out there, that was the best entertainment money could buy.

[Caller]

Oh, man.

[George Campbell]

Ol Ken, I'm gonna hit karaoke pretty hard and I expect to see you.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'll be There.

[George Campbell]

Okay, I'll be there. It's gonna be fun. Rob is in Greenville, South Carolina, up next. What's going on? Rob,

[Caller]

thanks for taking my call. I am looking to open the Roth ira. And I'm just trying to figure out how to assess and figure out kind of what investments within that Roth IRA that I'm. And we're gonna do.

[George Campbell]

Great question and a good call out for anyone listening. People think, well, I put money into my Roth ira.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm done.

[George Campbell]

And I go, did you though? Because it might just be sitting in like the settlement account in cash, and you need to actually go invest the dollars into something like a mutual fund. So we recommend four types of mutual funds around here. And essentially, Rob, it's large cap, mid cap, small cap, international. So we want a nice mix of companies to stay diversified. You've also heard of, you know, an s and P500 index fund, a nice low cost, broad based index fund fund, that's fine too. But you don't get the same amount of diversification because an s and P500 fund is just the top 500 companies. So you've got mostly large cap in there, so you're not exposed to the smaller companies who might have some sweet, aggressive growth and those international companies that help kind of bolster your portfolio when the US Market goes down. And can I do you one better, Rob? So I give you even better. Okay. We're doing an event called investing essential September 1st and 2nd. It's a virtual event, and I'm gonna send you a free ticket. You don't have to pay for it if you'll actually attend it and watch it. It's Dave Ramsey and I for two nights unpacking all of this. And we actually do a walkthrough with examples of how to select mutual funds within there. Because with a Roth ira, there's thousands you can choose from. It's overwhelming. So we'll show you how to narrow it down by process of elimination to choose the right ones that work out for you long term.

[Caller]

Term

that sounds great.

[George Campbell]

Okay, we'll hook you up with that. But it is. Jay, there's a lot of factors here you want to be looking at. How long has the fund existed?

[Jade Warshaw]

I was just about to say, has

[George Campbell]

the managing team been there for 10 years or has been a lot of turnover? What's the expense ratios? What's been the rate of return over the long haul?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, and you can look that up whenever you're looking for funds. A lot of people want us to say, just tell Me what fund to

[George Campbell]

choose, Tell me the ticker.

[Jade Warshaw]

And. And it's. We don't do that because I think it's great to learn, it's great to look it up. Look. Look them up, Min. It's like a report card that you can look at or you can look at the prospectus either way. But yeah, you look at how long has it been alive, you know, inception

[George Campbell]

date or whatever, around for a year or 50 years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Exactly. And then you can look at, you know, the past year, five years, 10 years on down the line. And all that's really good to see. I'm always looking to make sure it's at least like 11, 12 or beyond for, you know, average annualized rate of return, which is what we talk about here on the show all the time. And you can see all of that in the fund. Obviously, if you look in the past years, it's going to be really, really great.

[George Campbell]

But the good news is there's so many that you don't want that it really narrows it down pretty quickly.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you start looking at that stuff, you'll be able to see really clearly. Okay, this is. I see what they're saying, Jade, as I do.

[George Campbell]

I got in an argument on. In the comments section because this guy, you know, I say, hey, 10% is what you can expect. That's the average. You know, the average is 10 to 12. Let's go 10.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And he goes, what are you talking about? You need to plan for six. And so I messaged him, I said, hey, man, I'd like to know, like, where's this coming from?

[Jade Warshaw]

Where's that piece from?

[George Campbell]

What are you investing in? So he literally sent me his portfolio, and half of it was in bonds. Oh, no, this kid's in his 20s.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And a bunch of it was in, you know, Canadian stocks. I think he's in Canada. And a little bit of it was in the US Market. And I went, well, don't complain that you're not getting 10 or 12% when you're investing terribly. Yeah, it's not diversified. You need to be in mostly equities, especially while you're younger, to experience that growth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, most people, and I still don't suggest this, but a lot of people do switch to bond funds when they get older because it's less risky.

[George Campbell]

But bonds are volatile in their own way.

[Jade Warshaw]

In their own way. That's true.

[George Campbell]

And then you're going to call me going, hey, I'm only getting 6%. What's going on? And when I look under the hood, I'm like, there's your problem right there, bud. So we're going to walk you through all that investing essentials. You can get your virtual ticket for [e-mail] events. If you can't get it for free, like I just gave to my friend Rob, but that's what he gets for calling in the show. He did the work. All right, let's go to Nicholas in Pittsburgh. Up next. What's going on, Nicholas? Nicholas.

[Caller]

So I am struggling to do step one. Even saving $1,000, I racked up quite a bit of debt. So I feel like all my money is just playing catch up right now. And Robin, Peter, to pay Paul with, like, cash advances. And so I'm just trying to get to a good point point so I can do the first step, save a thousand dollars.

[Jade Warshaw]

So when you say you're trying to get to a good point before you save $1,000, does that mean you're trying to get current on anything that's behind? What do you mean by that?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I kind of just dug myself a hole as far as debt. I enrolled myself into a debt program, about $41,000 worth of debt.

[George Campbell]

Like a debt settlement relief company.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

They tell you to stop paying the debts. Tanker credit, pay us the payments, and then we'll settle for you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long have you been in that?

[Caller]

Yes. Two years.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much have you paid in

[Caller]

a decent amount of money?

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

How much have they cleared for you?

[Caller]

They take $300 out of every paycheck.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And how much?

[Caller]

Most of that is going towards their fees.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. So we're gonna probably stop that immediately. Let's stop that program because. And here's why. Whatever they're doing, if you wanted to do it that way, you could do it yourself. All they're doing is taking that 300. They're stacking it up in a pool while you're not making payments. And every time that you don't get a payment, that gives them more leverage to settle the debt. Debt. And so at some point, they're going to come in and then try to settle it for, I don't know, a quarter on the dollar or whatever. If you wanted to do that, you could do that yourself and not pay the fees. So let's get out of that program immediately. And whatever they've got, you know, pulled aside, let them, you know, put it towards the debt, or maybe they'll give it back to you. Either way, get out of that. And let's talk about. Are you behind on anything Right now?

[Caller]

No, all my bills are paid for. I just don't have much left over to start saving. $1,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

What is your margin? When you do your every dollar budget, how much margin is left?

[Caller]

Like 200, 300 bucks.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so when we say baby step one, which for anybody listening, baby step one is you get $1,000 saved. Now first off, the purpose of that thousand dollars is not to be the be all, end all. It's to be just a cushion between you and life. It really is a small insurance policy that ensures that you're not going to go back into debt. So if a tire goes out on the car, instead of putting it on on a credit card like you used to do, now you can just pay cash for it. Right. It's not going to solve all your problems, but it's temporary and it should give you a lot of motivation to really work fast to pay your debt off. Because nobody likes only having a thousand dollars saved. So that being said, most people are able to do this and this should be your goal too Nicholas, in 30 days or less. And that's not just with your normal cash flow margin. That's with you selling things, that's with you working extra. That's with you doing everything you can to get this money.

[George Campbell]

Pausing investing, if you're doing any of that, just looking around for any creative way you can to free up more margin, whether that's spending less or making more. So how much do you make?

[Caller]

Yeah, 94,000.

[George Campbell]

Amazing. And what, how much debt do you have total in the consumer debt? So side

[Caller]

I have about 60,000 in student loans, the 41,000 in credit card debt, 30,000 in the truck payment and then I also have my mortgage. Okay.

[George Campbell]

Are you married or single later?

[Caller]

Single.

[George Campbell]

Okay. What's the truck worth?

[Caller]

Only 22,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay, that might be something you look into to come up with the difference through just saving up cash. Once you through baby step one because you get rid of that truck, that's almost a third of your debt gone or at least a fourth to free up some margin to then throw because you free up that truck payment. Now we can attack some of these student loans and eventually the credit cards, whatever the next smallest balance is. Hang on the line. We're going to gift you every dollar premium which will help you find more margin to help you with this debt free journey, my friend. Welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls. Jordan is in Manchester, New Hampshire. Up next Jordan, how can we help?

[Caller]

So I got a truck repair coming up. It's probably going to cost me about $1,000. And I got through baby step one. I'm in the very, very early stages of baby step two. I have about $5,000 in a high yield savings account. And I'm just wondering if I should wait until when I get paid next to pay for the truck repair or I should pull from the high yield savings to pay for the repair.

[George Campbell]

Well, either way, the high yield savings is just sort of a slush fund. What was that earmarked for?

[Caller]

Say that again.

[George Campbell]

What was the high yield savings earmarked for? Because we would tell you just take the five and throw it at your debts. Obviously you have this truck repair, so let's use 1000 of that to cover the repair. Is the truck drivable right now?

[Caller]

Technically, yeah. It's just got a really bad oil leak.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Like, if you keep driving it, it's going to get worse. Is it one of those situations?

[Caller]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Then I would go ahead and do the repair. I mean, it's why we tell you to have the thousand dollar emergency fund. So even if you just had that, you'd be in the clear. Then we tell you to pause, restock the baby step 1,000 bucks, then move on to baby step two again. All right, so it doesn't really matter where the money comes from. You have six grand to your name. Let's cover the thousand dollar repair and then get onto these debts.

[Caller]

Debts.

Okay.

[George Campbell]

How much debt do you have right now?

[Caller]

About. I think I just looked at it today. About 33,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And what do you make?

[Caller]

About 62 a year.

[George Campbell]

Awesome.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it just you

[Caller]

for my. I'm engaged, but we haven't fully combined our finances yet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that's good. And you shouldn't yet until you get married. What kind of debt is the 33,000?

[Caller]

So I have two personal loans out and then I have a motorcycle loan.

[George Campbell]

What's left on the motorcycle?

[Caller]

Just under 16.

[Announcer]

Oh, wow.

[George Campbell]

What's it worth?

[Caller]

Probably right around 16.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[George Campbell]

I mean, do you. Do we need to ride this for now? Can we get rid of this thing and free up a payment?

[Caller]

That's my main source of transportation. That's how I'm getting myself back and forth to work.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you don't have a car?

[Caller]

Not right now. So what about the truck that I was. I wasn't driving it because I was afraid I was gonna blow the motor.

[Jade Warshaw]

Once you get it fixed yeah, we

[George Campbell]

fix the truck and we sell the bike.

[Caller]

I don't want to sell the bike.

[George Campbell]

Thank you. Thank you for being honest because I was waiting for you to straight up tell me. I don't want to sell the bike. I like the bike.

[Caller]

I don't. You know, it's.

It's.

You know, in the world of struggling a little bit financially, it's the one little freedom I feel like I can have.

[Jade Warshaw]

How fast can you have it paid off, though?

[George Campbell]

16,000 in debt is not freedom. I know it feels like it when the wind's running through your hair, but that's half your debt, man. And you're about to get married.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

What's more important, the future with this woman or having a bike you can go buy again later on?

[Jade Warshaw]

Does she have debt?

[Caller]

I know, yes, but not nearly as much as I do.

[George Campbell]

I mean, it's not a competition, but

[Jade Warshaw]

that's the way I'd be thinking about it.

[Caller]

I know.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you have 33,000 and she has how much?

[Caller]

I would guess probably under 10. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And that's a guess. So here's what I would do in your shoes. I would have the conversation with her tonight. I would start having the conversations about you guys philosophy on money. And now is the time because you know you're getting married. When's the date?

[Caller]

2028. August of 2028.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. August of 2020.

[George Campbell]

So far away.

[Caller]

We actually just recently got engaged about a month ago.

[George Campbell]

But I mean, it doesn't take two years to plan a party.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's a long time.

[Caller]

No, but one of the things that conversations we have started having is that we both want to be debt free. Baloney.

[George Campbell]

If you wanted to be debt free before the wedding, you'd sell this bike yesterday.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right? Because now then if I was her, I'd be mad. I'd be like, wait a second, I got a woman. Wait another year for you to pay off your bike.

[George Campbell]

What if you take on more debt? Does that delay the wedding further?

[Caller]

What's that?

[George Campbell]

I'm just saying right now, basically, you can ramp up or down this wedding and this new season of your life based on how aggressive you want to be with the debt.

[Caller]

I understand. And I. Like I said, I just started the baby step two, and I'm putting as much as I can towards the smallest. My smallest debt right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

What about this? Let me play something out for you because I. Like I said I appreciated your honesty. And you're right, it sucks really bad to give up the things that we want. Especially if we Feel like they're things that we earned or we just have a special attachment to them for whatever reason. That's probably the hardest part of baby step two is the sacrifice of saying no to things that we would so like to say yes to. Motorcycle falls into that category. Category. What if you sold the bike and then you paid off the 16,000 here really, really fast in the next couple of months, and then you saved up to buy another bike again in cash, and you bought maybe. And maybe you bought more of the bike you wanted.

[George Campbell]

And let's be honest, you could do all of that in way under two years, which tells me there's another reason you guys aren't getting married for two years. How long you been together?

[Caller]

Just like a year and eight months.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Are you already living together?

[Caller]

We are, yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's why we're waiting. There's no urgency.

[George Campbell]

There's nothing exciting on the other side.

[Jade Warshaw]

The loins are no longer burning, if I can say that on the radio.

[George Campbell]

Oh, that's fun. Jordan, we're having fun with you. We are. We are Team Jordan. We want you to win, and we're just showing you the best path forward. Now. Can you do it a different way? Yes. Will it take longer? Yes. I can't force you to sell the motorcycle, but I think everybody listening to this is going, sell the bike, man. Why put yourself in more pain and suffering for longer when there's another bike? Someone else is going to be in your shoes. Selling a bike for 16k later on down the road.

[Caller]

Well, that's the other thing is that later on down the road, we're looking at buying a house, but we both want to do that before we do that, so obviously.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old are you guys?

[Caller]

I'm 28. She's 29.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. You know, I think what I'm hearing is somebody who. It's weird on certain things, you're like, we have all the time in the world. And then on the things that are less pleasant, it's like, well, we got to do it now. And I think the correlation there is on the things that are enjoyable and you kind of get the benefit of you got all the time in the world. Like, I can just drive this. I can keep this motorcycle. Like, we're living together. We don't need to get married. But on the things that are a little uncomfortable, but that really do require your attention, it's, you know, we need to flip flop that a little bit. So I think that you're gonna do what you're gonna do. But George and I would suggest if you really wanna get out of debt quickly, if you really wanna put yourself in the position to buy the house. House. And if you really want to do what you say, which is let's each individually be debt free before we get married, which. That's your prerogative if you want to do it that way. The best way to do that is let's get rid of the bike. Let's show that we're serious about it. And that's kind of like you pushing all your chips in and saying, I'm serious about this deal.

[George Campbell]

Do you think she would find it romantic if you're like, hey, I'm selling the bike because I value our future together more than this toy.

[Caller]

Oh. Cause she likes throwing on at the too.

[George Campbell]

Oh, so now she's the one blocking this from happening.

[Announcer]

She's like, no, I like the bike.

[Caller]

She ain't. But she ain't stopping me. Trust me. I'll tell you right now, she knows. Won't stop me. But it's. It. I don't know. It's. It's just something that we can do together instead of staying at home when there's, you know, when it's beautiful.

[Announcer]

You're right.

[George Campbell]

You're right. You can't leave the house unless you have a motorcycle.

[Jade Warshaw]

Here's the thing. Here's what I would suggest. I would suggest if you. You don't need to wait two years. You do not need to wait until all your debts are paid off. And if you both really, truly enjoy the bike, you can pay it off together when your funds are combined once you get married. How about that?

[George Campbell]

At least we agree on one thing. We should pay 1000 bucks for the truck repair.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, we.

[George Campbell]

I'm trying to find some silver lining in this call.

[Jade Warshaw]

We agree on that.

[Announcer]

Dave Ramsey here. For more than 30 years, I've been talking to folks on the air, and I can tell you that most people are broke not because they don't make enough money, but because they don't have a plan. You need to give every dollar you earn a job, because when you do that, something changes. You stop guessing. You stop worrying. You stop stressing. Our Every dollar budgeting app will show you how to find extra cash, pay off debt, and finally start winning with money. But most people won't do it. They'll keep living paycheck to paycheck, keep hoping things will change without making a change change. It's time to say enough is enough. It's time to take control of your money. It's time to start your every dollar budget for free today, go download it in the App Store or Google Play.

[George Campbell]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell here with Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls. Katie is in Raleigh. Up next. What's going on, Katie?

[Caller]

Hi. So I am about to start a new job earning more income. So my question is, should I take that extra money and then put that towards my student loans even though my parents have promised to pay them off, or put that towards other things as me and my husband are wanting to start a family sometimes because.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much are the student loans?

[Caller]

So there's two loans. There's one federal loan that is 30,000, and then there's one private loan that is 24, but they're willing to settle for 12.

[Jade Warshaw]

When did your parents say it'd be paid off by? Like, when does that go into effect?

[Caller]

They never said when it would be paid off. It was just always a promise that they would pay them off off eventually. But I just turned 30 and I've been out of college for about eight years.

[Jade Warshaw]

And your name is on them.

[Caller]

Yes, they are.

[George Campbell]

Well, a promise with no deadline is just a wish. Just hope. So we need to get some real tactical facts here of, hey, I got 42k here to pay off. You guys said you would. I'm not going to let it sit in a crew interest knowing that this is undermining name. So all the risk is on you right now. And until they pay it off, you're carrying that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Who negotiated the settlement of the private loan, you or them?

[Caller]

I have. I have been, you know, and how it started is my parents were managing it and then ended up defaulting, so I decided to take it over and I coordinate in front all the payments.

[George Campbell]

So can we trust their word at this point? It sounds like they don't have the money to pay it off even if they wanted to.

[Caller]

To. Yeah, I'm starting to think that. And they're getting close to retirement and they don't have a house and they're wanting to move into a house as well.

[Jade Warshaw]

So, yeah, I think that this is just going to be a dead weight around your ankles until you cut it loose by paying it off. And if they want to reimburse you, I'd be like, one day they want

[George Campbell]

to write you a $42,000 check. That'll be a sweet gift. One day. Day. But. And you can tell them that based on everything you've told us, there is slim to no chance they're going to pay this thing. Off. And what's going to happen is the loan's going to balloon. It's going to create resentment towards them, and it's going to hurt the relationship even further. So I know it stinks because you believe them. You didn't take a whole lot of action because you thought, well, someone else is taking care of it. And now you're stuck going, I want to start a family. I got my own dreams and goals. And you're stuck paying for the past now because your parents didn't make good on a promise. So you have every right to be resentful and hurt by that. But you also have a responsibility to go, here's what's in my lap. I'm going to deal with it, and I'm going to take this raise that I just got and throw it all at the debt. And that might delay a few dreams, but I don't want it to stop you from having a family either.

[Caller]

Yeah. And, you know, my husband is in this equation now, too. I didn't meet him until after college. So, you know, I'm just trying to balance all the different relationships. Obviously, my husband is number one, though.

[George Campbell]

So what do you guys make together or what will you be making?

[Caller]

I will be making 160 and my husband makes a little over 100 and some additional bonuses throughout the year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Excellent.

[George Campbell]

So 260 and you got basically 42 on your side for the student loans. Do you guys have any other debts?

[Caller]

Yes, we just moved into a home with about a 500k mortgage. And then we have two cars. One car is. Has six grand left on it, and the other one has 25.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and what are they worth?

[Caller]

They're all pretty new. So you put a lot down? Yeah, we put about 5,000 down for the, the 25K one.

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I think that you guys have a great income. I think obviously the cars are not a huge piece of your world, so I'm fine with you guys paying them off. I don't see a need to sell any of them. But I. I do agree you've got this deal with the private student loans. I think you ought to take it. Do you guys have any money saved anywhere? Cash?

[Caller]

Yeah, we have our 10,000 emergency funds. And then we have. Have retirements and, you know, 401ks, Roth, but don't want to touch those.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

You said you have 10,000?

[Caller]

Yeah, in emergencies.

[Jade Warshaw]

So let's, let's run this back because I think you guys are doing a lot of good work, but I think that you're not Doing it in a very efficient order. And I think that George and I can help you be a little bit more efficient. Obviously, around here we teach a series of baby steps. And the reason that we teach them the way that we teach them is because you're creating a foundation that you can build wealth off of that you won't have to go into debt, you won't have to, you know, tap into your retirement, you won't have to tap into credit cards. And so let's see if we can right size this with the baby steps. Obviously, baby step one is you have a thousand dollars saved. That's just a quick cushion between you and life. You guys have that, you're good to go. But the next baby step is baby step two. And that's technically where you guys are. That's where you list all your debts, smallest to largest, and you pay minimums on everything but knocking out. You know, use your margin to knock out the smallest debt. And then when that one's done, you take the extra money, throw it on the next debt. That is the debt snowball. And that's technically where you are right now. You have an emergency fund, which is baby step three. We suggest three to six months of, of expenses. You don't have quite that. But what you do have, you honestly should bump down to $1,000 as baby step one and take the other 9,000 and put it towards this debt. You could pay off one of your cars. If you paid off the $6,000 car, how much monthly payment does that free up for you?

[Caller]

That monthly payment for that car is $400.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so now that's how the debt snowball works. Suddenly you pay off that $6,000, you got the 400, you throw that back into the mix. And now very quickly, we could probably gather up the money and pay off this settlement. How long is the settlement good for?

[Caller]

It's every time I call them back, they seem to extend it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, okay, that's good. So you've got a little bit of time. I think you can go ahead and pay off the car, free up the 400, stack up the 12,000 and do that settlement. And then next thing you know, we're on to the 25, 000 car. And by the way, beyond that, let's talk about that. Because beyond that is baby step four, where we're investing 15 of our gross. Sounds like they're already doing that, George. For the purpose of paying off debt, we suggest just pausing, temporarily pausing.

[George Campbell]

Go down to zero. And for you guys, that might be for six months it's going to be a nothing burger with your income. But think about this. You guys make 260 gross. Is that about 180 net?

[Caller]

I would say you're probably right on that. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So let's imagine that's 15k a month coming in. And let's just imagine your expenses are 9k.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Now you have 6k left over if you're doing a budget to throw at the debt. So if you do a jade, you so said take your savings and pay off the 6K car loan, you're left with $67,000 total in consumer debt. If you throw $6,000 at 67K, you are done in 11 months. And that's probably not even making a lot of sacrifices. I mean you're living pretty good on $9,000 a month.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So now let's go. Okay, what if you guys said we're going to do it in six months? Well now if we threw, you know, 9K at this thing, we're done in seven months.

[Caller]

Months.

[George Campbell]

And so you can kind of figure out based on the intensity that you guys choose how fast we want to be out of debt. But if you're telling me I want to start a family, that's going to be my fuel to go. I'm not going to hang on to this for 12 more months. I'm going to free up all of those payments, stack up a big emergency fund. So when that baby's here, it's in a debt free house with no money

[Jade Warshaw]

stress and you could save up a lot if you pay off all this debt in seven months. Make 260. Yeah, that you could have a nice cushion emergency fund in the next three months. So you've done really baby steps one through three in a year, which is fabulous.

[Caller]

Yeah, this is very helpful. I was just confused about, you know, obviously if we're wanting to start a family, do I just keep letting my parents pay slowly pay it.

[Jade Warshaw]

But no, you've got the money to do it. You've got the money to do it. And we're going to give you the total money makeover over. It'll just reiterate what, what George and I have clarified here for you and I think it'll give you some of the whys behind the what that we don't have time to explain on this call. But you guys are doing great.

[George Campbell]

And what I love about this, let's picture one day you make 160. It's an amazing income. Let's say one day you decide, you know what this baby is. I value being home with the baby more than my 160 income. You could walk away from it if you do it the right way. You have the margin. You could. Can you live off 100k with no debt? That's the question. Now you got a $500,000 mortgage that changes things. So you need to figure out in the budget what that looks like. But that's the goal of the baby steps. It's not to be maniacal because Jade and George and Dave said so. It's to give you options, freedom, margins, so you can live out of your values instead of do things because you have to do it because a lender said so. That's the go.

[Announcer]

You should not feel uncertain about investing and you don't have to to. That's why we created Investing Essentials, a two night virtual event where George Camel and I walk you through my playbook for investing and wealth planning. We'll simplify everything from 401ks and mutual funds to passing on wealth so you can invest with confidence. Tickets start at $199. Get yours [e-mail] events or click the link in the show notes.

[George Campbell]

Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today we're going to break down one of the questions we received this week. Here's the question. People Talk about Roth IRAs and 401k KS. How do I know what fits my situation?

[Jade Warshaw]

Interesting. I like that. So the rule that we teach here is simple match beats Roth, beats traditional. So that's kind of telling you your order of investing. Obviously if you have a 401k through your employer and there's a match. This is free money, George.

[George Campbell]

I mean you put, they give you 100 bucks. I'm taking it.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a no brainer.

[George Campbell]

It's a magic money machine right there, huh?

[Jade Warshaw]

And then after that you've got the, the Roth ira. Ira. We'd love for you to max that out. That's fabulous because you're paying the taxes up front, which means you or your heirs won't have to pay taxes. And of course it's the growth is tax free as well. In 2026, the limit is 7, 500 or 8,000 if you're 50 plus you've got the catch up contribution there.

[George Campbell]

And then if you still haven't hit 15 of your income now we can move back to any traditional accounts. Like if you have a traditional 401k, you can contribute there. So that's the only order match is the best. Let's start there. Roth is next best because you have this tax free growth and then the traditional side to hit that limit. So I love this plan. I know it, it sounds simple. It can be confusing for some. So you can actually plug in your own numbers and ask. Ramsey will walk you through the investing order for your specific situation. You can do [e-mail] or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Brian is in Dallas up next. Brian, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Well, thank you for taking my call. I'm actually calling for my some advice concerning my mom's finances. She's 94 years old. She has recently had to move into an assisted living facility. She had been a full time worker until age of 93 and she broke her hip.

Wow.

She's accumulated like $500,000 in assets through that time because of being frugal with money and she grew up during the depression, so forth. Well, she's going to pay about $5,000 a month to live in the assisted living facility and so she has enough to live if she were to live for 10 years in this facility. However, we're getting ready to sell her house for about $150,000. My question is what do we do with that money? Do we put it into her savings? Do we put it into a mutual fund? Does she get gifted some to her children? Do we start trying to move money out of her account? There's going to because her assets are too high right now and she's not eligible for any assistance. But if that money was moved out, she would be. For example, my dad was a veteran in the Navy. She could get some military help that way. I'm just seeking advice. What we should do particularly right now with that money.

[George Campbell]

Are you saying for Medicaid purposes?

[Caller]

Yes, Medicaid and, and veteran purposes. Either one.

[George Campbell]

Well, I know for Medicaid there's a five year lookbook back and so you can't just move the assets out and go hey look, we're poor. They are, they're looking, they're looking for that because people have tried to do that in the past and so that's not a great strategy. What I would do is just go, okay, we know. I mean if she makes it to 104 that would be pretty incredible.

[Caller]

Right, Corrected. But that's, she's made it a lot for them. She has broken both hips, broken on in her neck and she's just thriving right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sound mind. Does she have Sound mind?

[Caller]

Yes. Oh, yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

What does she want to do?

[Caller]

Coherent.

[Jade Warshaw]

What does she want to do with the sale of the house? Money.

[Caller]

She basically leaves it up to me and says you, you do, you find out what's best. And so that's why I decided to call y'.

All.

[Jade Warshaw]

It feels like investing it, dropping it in a mutual fund so that it can, you know, have some compounding effect there and continue to pay for her life.

[George Campbell]

If I might split the difference, I wouldn't put it all in investments because if the market takes a dip now you're, you know, ripping the money out at the wrong time to pay for a care. So I would leave a huge chunk in a high yield savings account account just as a buffer for her care. And then anything beyond that, you could invest a portion of it so that it's, you know, moving beyond just the rate of inflation at 3 1/2 percent. So if you left, let's say 400k in a high yield savings and you put the other 100k plus 150 from the house sale, now you got quarter million invested and 400k liquid. That feels like a good balance to me personally.

[Caller]

Okay. So don't try to move any money out of her account. That was.

[George Campbell]

I don't think it's worth trying to move it out of the estate. It's not like she's a you bajillionaire and there's going to be all these estate taxes.

[Caller]

Sure.

[George Campbell]

And I don't think there's. You can look into the VA stuff again. I don't think there's any way you can just move money out. You know, she can gift money to you guys and avoid even the gift tax form of, you know, third, you know, probably 19K a year if she's single to each kid. But I don't know that it's even worth doing that when you guys will inherit it when she one day passes.

[Caller]

And I agree with that. I kind of thought the same thing. That's what we thought we would do at first, but I don't know that we really have the time to move enough money out to where she can get any assistance.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I. Assistance wouldn't be the goal at this point. It's just how do we use this, this basically pile of $650,000 to make sure that we can cover her care without incurring any, you know, expenses on the kids side.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I don't think she needs the assistance. If she needed it, that'd be one thing. But.

[George Campbell]

And she's probably Getting better care right now with her assets than she would be with assistance.

[Caller]

Well, and that's what she's talked about, that she worked this long to be able to have good care if she was able to live this long. So what you're saying is take 150,000, maybe divided, that put part of it in high yield and part of it in like a mutual fund, she. Which she already has some mutual funds.

[George Campbell]

Okay, great. Yeah. I was thinking maybe if you split it 400k liquid, 250k invested and I would connect with a smartvestor [e-mail] because they can walk you through all of this for your specific situation. They know Texas law and so they can walk you through all of the appropriate ways to maximize these assets and make sure that we leave the legacy in the right way with estate planning purposes.

[Caller]

Okay, thank you all so much. I appreciate your advice.

[George Campbell]

Absolutely. Thanks for the call, Brian. Man, that's impressive at 94.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know.

[George Campbell]

She's sharper than I am.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, gosh.

[George Campbell]

She'll outlive me at this point. Wow. All right. Anna is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Up next, what's going on?

[Caller]

Hello. How are you guys doing?

[George Campbell]

Doing great.

[Caller]

I just had a quick question. Me and my husband are under contract for a new build townhome that will be done in November. We are pre approved through Churchill Mortgage, which is great, but the builder's preferred lender is actually offering $15,000 in closing costs. But they are asking us to self report our utilities and our rent to generate a credit score. And I just wasn't sure about that since it wasn't technically taking on debt, but I didn't want to mess around before we were trying to get a loan and everything. So just curious, you guys.

[Jade Warshaw]

So they want you to turn in those kind of auxiliary things to generate because your credit score right now is zero.

[Caller]

Yes. It's undeterminable. They want us to report it to the credit bureaus, which is interesting. Not. I was asking if we could just send it over to him and he was not like saying that was okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, the problem with that is there's no guarantee that that's going to give you a good credit score. It might cause something to pop up. And I would hate if it was a mediocre credit score because then Churchill is going to be looking at you

[George Campbell]

if you have a credit score. It has to be you used. It's a stupid rule, but that's the rule. So you either have to have no credit score or a good to Great one. And so I would look into this to make sure that if you do self report, that it will give you an actual good score. And I would also look into these closing costs to figure out is this even a good deal? Because they could be screwing you in other ways because they always entice you with. Use our preferred, you know, lender, and we'll give you this kickback.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

But that doesn't mean it's a good deal for you guys. So I would. I would look at the numbers, get an estimate from Churchill and look over those numbers versus the closing costs with this other lender.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

That way you have a full picture.

[Caller]

Thank you, guys.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, absolutely. It's a great question. That is what they're talking about here is something called manual underwriting and. Or a no score loan. I've done this personally. People are shocked every time I see done it too.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's not that big of a deal.

[George Campbell]

It's like a magic trick. They're like, wait, you did what? You can get a mortgage without having a credit score whatsoever. Now, here's where people get it twice twisted. You cannot have a low score. This does not circumvent a bad credit score. So I get these messages going, hey, I heard you talk about these no score loans. How do I do that? I have a 400 credit score. I go, no, you can't. You need to get rid of it completely by becoming completely debt free, having no open trade lines whatsoever, no open credit cards, and after six to 12 months, your credit score will become indeterminable. So at that point, you're going, well, how do I get a score? Lenders are looking for this. This not all of them. And Churchill Mortgage, who we've had as a partner for, you know, decades and decades now they are. They specialize in these types of loans because they help Ramsey fans get a mortgage without a credit score. So you do need things like a tax return. You need to show utility bills, rental history on time, payments, all of that. But they essentially have a real person look at all the numbers and go, yep, they qualify for the loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

They use trust trade lines, your phone bill, utilities, electric, to take the place of what other people would use credit for.

[George Campbell]

Which, by the way, is exactly how it happened before the 90s.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's true.

[George Campbell]

When the credit score came into existence.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So your grandma didn't have to deal with this. They just went, I know Jane, she's great. Look, they have income. Give them the loan. I pine for us to come. Go back to a time as simple as that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know that's right.

[George Campbell]

Where if you just have money and income, they'll give you the loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's good enough.

[Announcer]

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[George Campbell]

Our scripture of the day. Proverbs 12:15. The way of a fool is right in his own eyes. But a wise man listens to advice. Ken Blanchard said, none of us is as smart as all of us. There we go. There is wisdom in numbers and community multitude. Hey, buying or selling your home is high stakes because one bad deal could cost you tens of thousands and you don't want to overpay for your next house or sell your current home for less than it's worth. And that's where a Ramsey trusted Agent comes into play. We can connect you with vetted real estate agents who have the experience to guide you step by step to make smart decisions instead of expensive mistakes. Connecting is easy. You can go to ramseysolutions.com agent, compare agent profiles, interview your top channel choices and pick the right one for you. That's ramseysolutions.com agent or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Kyle is in Charleston, South Carolina, up next. Kyle, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, thank you for having me. So my wife and I are both real estate agents. We've done about 180 this year on track to do probably 360 by the end of the year.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[Caller]

No debt except the house.

[George Campbell]

Way to go.

[Caller]

No, thank you. Thank you. No debt except the mortgage. I wanted to know about investing. So. So we have enough right now to max out both our Roth IRAs. That would be starting our Roth IRAs and then some on top of that.

[George Campbell]

But you'll have to do backdoor Roth IRAs at your income level.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So know that there is an income threshold to do the Roth ira, but there is a very legal loophole called a backdoor Roth IRA where essentially you make an after tax contribution to a traditional IRA and then immediately convert. Convert it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

So look into that when you're ready.

[Caller]

And I guess that kind of leads me to my next question, we're both 28 and I'm wondering, should we talk to a smartvestor? Because I've talked to some of them just because I'm not good with all this stuff, I'm new to all this. Or should we do it at our own since it's just a Roth ira?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, you're going to be doing more than just a Roth ira because the way we teach, we want you to invest 15% of your gross income income which making $360,000 a year, you could be putting away like $54,000 per year.

[George Campbell]

So the two backdoor Roths will get you to 15K. We've got a ways to go. And obviously you guys are basically self employed.

[Caller]

Yeah, pretty much.

[George Campbell]

Do you run it as an official business to where you could open a Solo 401K?

[Caller]

It's a LLC right now. It's going to be converted to escort for the next tax year though.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I would contact that SmartVestor Pro and ask about a Solo 401K. If it's just you and your wife, you can open one of those. And what's really cool is you can contribute as the employer and the employee. So you can contribute way more than I can in that 401k. And that will really help you guys out. And you can, you can even open a solo Roth 401k to sock away all that money. And then you can also beyond that, like let's say you guys wanted to have some flex spending money or a bridge account. Let's say you want to retire at 55, you want to access money before 60, you can just open a taxable brokerage account and invest in there in some index funds and kind of create a nice little pile of money as well.

[Caller]

So.

And should we be investing, I guess, should we be that 401k that you mentioned? How much is there a max on that that we can contribute as employer and employee?

[Jade Warshaw]

I think the lifetime match is somewhere around 54,000, which is right around where you would be after you do the Roth double check that for me because it's always changing. But there's a lot that you can put in there.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, the total contributions are capped at 72.

[Jade Warshaw]

72, there you go.

[George Campbell]

So you can contribute your 24, 5 just like any old employee, plus 25% of compensation on the employer side, which is pretty great.

[Caller]

Okay, and then. Yeah, that is good. And then after all that stuff, is there anything else we should be investing in other than that? I know you mentioned brokerage accounts or

[George Campbell]

mutual funds or the other thing is an hsa. If you guys have a high deductible health plan. I don't know what you guys do for health insurance right now. What do you have?

[Caller]

We actually don't. We don't have health insurance right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh boy.

[George Campbell]

We got to get that new homework assignment that just flew to the top of the list. I would contact Health Trust Financial. They can help you shop for insurance if you're self employed to find you the best deal. And the website for that is healthtrustfinancial.com. that's a big one. I mean, health insurance, like medical bills are one of the leading causes of bankruptcy. And so that's really. You're exposed right now. So as you're building wealth, that's the offense part, you got to play defense. You want to have the right types of insurance in place. And health insurance is. That's at the top of the list. So beyond that, you should be paying off the mortgage. You guys said you own a home.

[Caller]

Yes, we do.

[George Campbell]

What's left on that?

[Caller]

220, I think.

[George Campbell]

Fantastic. So let's say you invest 15%. That's 54,000 and you still had money left over. Let's use a big portion of that to start attacking the mortgage and set a very specific goal of, hey, if we put five grand on that a month, that's 60k a year. And within four years, this thing's completely gone.

[Caller]

Okay, gotcha. And what's the. I mean, because we have our thing, we've talked about paying off the home early a lot. And our thing is, you know, it's that. And I know y' all hear this a lot at a 2.5% interest rate.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I've yet to convince any real estate agent to pay off their mortgage. So if you do this, I will have a trophy in my house. But yeah, that's the thing. People look at the paper and go, well, two and a half percent, I can make more in a high yield savings account. The truth is, number one, we can only have that discussion if you actually have the full amount of the mortgage sitting in savings, which most people don't. And number two, you haven't factored in the interest savings. You have a full forced savings plan here with a forced interest rate. So that two and a half percent, you're basically making that money by paying it off. And now you can invest that payment. And people rarely factor that into play on top of, hey, what if your wife, let's say you guys have a Kid and your wife decides to stay home. Not having a mortgage. Mortgage payment would really help out in lowering your expenses.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

So it also gives you flexibility on top of the piece, the freedom.

[Jade Warshaw]

He said, I'll consider it, so just consider it again.

[George Campbell]

I flew by that because I went, kyle, the. This might fall on deaf ears here on some rocky ground, but it was worth the shot because that is the true. It's exactly what I did, Kyle. And I have zero regrets. I think my mortgage was at, like, I don't know, a little over 3%. And my friends were like, come on, dude, you can make so much. Life is not about a spread once you have a family. It's about, how can I just live peacefully, simply not worried about money? So my wife decided she wanted to stay home. We barely looked at the budget, went, yep, all right, go for it. So that's the advice there. That's the baby steps. You invest 15% until the house has paid off. Then you can start really going ham. You could invest 30, 40, 50% of your income and start to go beyond into those taxable brokerage accounts as well.

[Caller]

Okay, got it. And one last question before I go.

They.

After we, you know, say we do pay off the house after that and we start saving up, we want to look at either, you know, fixed uppers or investment properties or land. What's your opinion on investing in those type of things? Love it.

[George Campbell]

I mean, Dave Ramsey has a whole big portion of his net worth tied up in real estate. He's a big fan of it, but there's a very specific way to do it that again, real estate agents rarely do, and that is save up and pay cash.

[Caller]

Right. And that's how we would do it. You know, the only mortgage we would want. Love it, I guess, is around.

[George Campbell]

And then it becomes, hey, what kind of hassle do you want? Do you like the fixer upper life where it's sort of temporary but kind of high stress, higher stakes, and then you make some profit? Or do you want the sort of landlord life where, hey, we bought a property, we got a good deal on it. Here's what we know. We could get in rent, and when it's paid for, the cash flow is extra sweet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you guys covering real estate on investing essentials?

[George Campbell]

We are.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, let's give Kyle a ticket to that.

[George Campbell]

So at night, one of our investing essentials event, Kyle. It's happening September 1st and 2nd. Dave Ramsey and I are unpacking his wealth plan playbook. In the end of night one, we're going to cover real estate investing. So I want you specifically to tune into that and join us if you're willing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, even the, even the first night too. Because you had all those questions about investing. I think that's just the perfect event for you. Full circle.

[George Campbell]

I love this. Kyle, join us. You just got a free $200 ticket. So don't say I didn't do anything nice for you. Even if you hated the advice, you got a free ticket out of it. Thanks for the call, man.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[George Campbell]

You're doing great. Great questions. I cannot imagine, Jay, that like at 28, making 360 grand, crushing it in real estate and having no consumer debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know they're going to be wealthy, wealthy, wealthy.

[George Campbell]

Like I lit up like a Christmas tree to be able to talk about investing. Because they have the margin to invest $54,000 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Unheard of.

[George Campbell]

They're going to have so much money, they're going to be buying up properties left and right like it's Monopoly.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you know, they. He started out saying something that I hear so much. I think people are like, oh, I just want to max out my Roth ira. And kind of in their minds it's like that, that's it. That's it. And don't get me wrong, I think that's a really good thing to aspire to. But the truth is you want to hit 15% of that gross and if that puts you over the $7,500 limit, that's a good thing.

[George Campbell]

So if you're married making over 100k, you got to go beyond just two Roth. Roth IRAs.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You got to get into not just your Roth IRA, but now if you have an employer based 401k, go there.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And the HSA, that's why I mentioned it, is an awesome place to also invest. Kind of a life hack on that one. Triple track tax advantage. All right. That puts this show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.