Make The Most of Your Financial Choices—They Matter

Summary

The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary

Podcast: The Ramsey Show
Episode: Make The Most of Your Financial Choices—They Matter
Host: Dave Ramsey, co-hosted by Jade Washall
Air Date: December 22, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Dave Ramsey and co-host Jade Washall, both seasoned Ramsey personalities, tackle a diverse range of real-life financial dilemmas faced by callers. Topics cover everything from unintended predatory HVAC leases and poor car-buying habits to marriage financial struggles, vacation budgeting, life insurance needs, and hard lessons in the risks of desperate investing. The central theme is straight talk on making wise financial choices, owning past mistakes, and the life-changing power of following a step-by-step plan—“common sense is weird,” as Dave asserts.

The tone is energetic, no-nonsense, and deeply rooted in tough love and practical advice. Throughout, Dave and Jade emphasize personal responsibility, transparency in relationships, and the need to avoid being “normal” with money (“Normal is broke”).

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Key Calls & Discussion Points

1. Predatory HVAC Lease: “A Second Mortgage in Disguise”

Timestamps: 00:58–06:50

• Caller: Nancy from Clarksville
• Issue: Stuck in a $62,000 ten-year lease on an HVAC system, with a current buyout at $47,000.
• Advice:
  • Dave is shocked: “Wow. Okay. I didn’t know you could do a lease on a heat and air system. That sounds like… thievery. It’s theft.” (01:31)
  • Suggests reviewing the contract for an early buyout discount, saving up and paying off in one lump sum.
  • Because the debt is more than half her annual income, Dave classifies it like a mortgage (baby step 6).
  • Strongly criticizes companies preying on military families, humorously admonishing those who’d get into such unethical sales.

Memorable Quote:

“If your son is out there, Mom, and his new job is selling heat and air leases, tell him don’t be a crook and go do something else with his life.” — Dave Ramsey (05:48)

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2. Car Debt Catastrophe: “Land of Stupid”

Timestamps: 11:14–18:49

• Caller: Michael from Toronto, 18 years old, overwhelmed with car and student debt
• Issue: Owes $41,000 on a car now worth $30,500, earning $1,000–2,000/month, with no savings, and recently burned through $70,000 from pandemic side gigs.
• Advice:
  • Dave and Jade hammer home the math: “If you make $1,000 a month and spend $1,000 on your car, you don’t have money to eat.”
  • Suggest selling the car, taking the loss, buying a $2,000 beater, and focusing on cleaning up the mess.
  • Emphasize that Michael is not responsible for his mother’s finances.
  • Call for radical behavioral change: “Let me tell you what doesn’t work: your life, the way you have it set up right now, your situation sucks beyond belief… throw a stick of dynamite in the middle of this freaking mess you’ve created.” (16:45)
  • Dave highlights the show’s mission: they start gentle but “turn up the heat” if callers resist.

Notable Moment:

“Where I live, the land I live in right now is the land of stupid, and I want to leave.” — Dave Ramsey (18:49)

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3. Vacation vs. Emergency Fund: “Grown-up Conversations”

Timestamps: 22:11–27:38

• Caller: Jaden from Casper, WY
• Issue: Wife wants a $2,000 vacation, but they’re about to drain savings for a property down payment and her income will soon stop with a new baby.
• Advice:
  • Vacations are not emergencies; avoid using the emergency fund for luxury.
  • Dave: "A vacation is not an emergency, so I would not dig into the emergency fund to take a vacation, ever."
  • Advises both spouses to approach the conversation as equals and grown-ups, not as one “parenting” the other.
  • If the emergency fund is overfunded, they could consider it.

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4. Credit Scores and Renting: “Myth-Busting and Getting Off Grandma’s Dole”

Timestamps: 27:48–31:29

• Caller: Stephen, 20, preparing for marriage
• Issue: Grandma pays his gas card to support him; wants to cancel card, worried about credit score and ability to rent an apartment.
• Advice:
  • Myth: You don’t need a credit score to rent—most complexes are flexible, maybe an extra deposit.
  • Encourages Stephen to get off family financial support for the sake of marriage.
• Jade’s Tip: Having a landlord who uses actual judgment, not just a credit score, is preferable.
• Dave: “Yes, you need to… get off the grandmother dole. I know that’s right.”

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5. The Ramsey Baby Steps and Debt Snowball vs. Avalanche

Timestamps: 36:30–40:31

• Key Point: The debt snowball works for behavioral, not just mathematical, reasons.
• Dave explains the importance of the “dopamine feedback loop” of quick wins in paying off debt smallest to largest.
• Consolidation and the “debt avalanche” (paying highest interest first) fail due to lack of behavioral change.
• Quote:

  “If we were doing math, we wouldn’t have credit card debt. It’s not a math problem. It’s a ‘stupid’ problem.” — Dave Ramsey

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6. Combining Finances in Marriage: “Brutal Honesty and the Power of Unity”

Timestamps: 44:25–52:54

• Caller: Sarah from Virginia Beach, newly married, uncomfortable with merging finances due to husband’s secrecy and lying about debts.
• Advice:
  • Combining finances is the path to transparency and accountability.
  • Dave counsels: working with their marriage counselor is essential, especially since contempt is present—a major factor in divorce.
  • If a partner can’t keep a mutually agreed-upon contract, the issue is deeper than financial.

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7. Shocking Loss: Husband Falls for All-in Crypto Scam

Timestamps: 54:41–61:45

• Caller: Anna from Austin, TX, 57, stay-at-home, husband lost $270,000 retirement in a crypto scam aimed for a fast retirement after her cancer diagnosis.
• Advice:
  • Dave is as concerned by the year-long deception as the financial loss.
  • Urges the couple to only make financial decisions together from now on.
  • Uses the story to teach about fear and greed being what makes people easy targets for scams.
• Quote:

  “If you have to hide the investment or the financial move from your spouse… you’re screwing up.” — Dave Ramsey

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8. Life Insurance: Can You Go Without?

Timestamps: 66:21–70:43

• Caller: Sarah, South Dakota, approaching the end of debt but income has grown since their term life insurance was purchased.
• Advice:
  • Still need sufficient term life coverage until you’re truly self-insured (substantial investments, no debt).
  • “If you keep going with intensity, you will [become self-insured], but if you play the next 15 years like the last, you’ll still be in debt.”

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9. Rent vs. Buy (Single Engineer in LA): “Stop Regressing, Start Advancing”

Timestamps: 70:49–75:24

• Caller: Felix, 30, engineer, LA, 50% of take-home income spent on rent, considering moving back with parents to save money.
• Advice:
  • Don’t regress by moving back home; instead, look for a higher-earning job in a lower-cost area, leveraging his advanced degree.
  • The goal: further career and financial progress, not mere cost-cutting.

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10. Young Couple Building Home with Cash: “Put All the Money Together!”

Timestamps: 76:32–79:18

• Caller: Luke, Columbus, Ohio, 22, wife, building house on inherited land
• Advice:
  • Merge all finances, focus first on finishing the house, then boost retirement investing.
  • Dave: “There’s so much data that says when you do that, [put money together] your higher probability of winning at marriage… and at everything.”
• Mini-rant: Dave underscores that marriage is about unity, not independence: “No, you shouldn’t be independent if you’re married. That’s a dumb butt idea.”

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11. How Much is Too Much for a Wedding?

Timestamps: 86:10–93:39

• Caller: Alyssa, Chicago, planning to spend $60,000 on her wedding, both partners have high incomes ($270,000 household), no debt.
• Advice:
  • Not too much if you’re paying cash and if it’s a responsible percentage of your income (much less than half, below national norms).
  • Manage the wedding like a project—budget every line, avoid “scope creep.”
• Fun Moment: Jade’s wedding regret was “no open bar”; Dave jokes, “So your regret is you didn’t booze up everybody else?”

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12. Business, Divorce, and Teacher’s Dilemma: To Dip Into the Business?

Timestamps: 95:41–98:28

• Caller: Katrina, Salt Lake City, going through divorce, needs $200 for classroom supplies.
• Advice:
  • Only spend on the classroom if it’s not at the expense of your own survival.
  • If desperate, seek outside help (church, community), not more debt or business resources earmarked for the divorce settlement.

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13. 529 Plan with Scholarship Overfund: “Good Problem to Have”

Timestamps: 110:17–114:45

• Caller: Charlotte, Cincinnati, overfunded college 529 plan due to scholarships
• Advice:
  • You can withdraw scholarship-equivalent amounts penalty-free.
  • For leftover growth, pay the penalty/tax if necessary—don’t overcomplicate or delay for decades.
  • “Just so slightly” overfunded; celebrate the abundance.

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14. “Should I Sell Investments to Go Debt-Free?”

Timestamps: 107:04–109:07

• Caller: Teddy, Traverse City, retired wife, own $1.1 million, $140,000 left in debt (mostly home/HELOC/car).
• Advice:
  • Yes, sell off enough investments to become debt-free, but only if they resolve not to borrow again.
  • Jade reminds: “What makes you weird is you’ve decided to become independent in a culture that teaches you to constantly be dependent.”

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15. Job Loss and Moving to Start Over

Timestamps: 122:12–end

• Caller: Ramon, San Diego → Houston; lost job, carrying $73,000 debt, wife stay-at-home.
• Advice:
  • Sell an appreciated car to free up cash, prep for the cross-country move, avoid debt.
  • Seek supplemental jobs for immediate income. Enrolls caller in Financial Peace University as support.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “You don’t fix a behavior problem with a math solution. You fix a behavior problem with a behavior solution.” — Dave Ramsey (37:12)
• “Don’t be scummy. And then you’re safe on the show.” — Dave Ramsey (06:50)
• “The number one thing that will keep you from building wealth is screwed up relationships.” — Dave Ramsey (104:31)
• Dave on marriage & finances: “Your money is our money. Uno. Unity. All in one… The number one cause of divorce is money fights and money problems. The number one solution: learning to dream together and handle our problems and our opportunities together.”
• Jade on independence in marriage: “What makes you weird is you’ve decided to become independent in a culture that teaches you to constantly be dependent.”

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Overarching Advice (The Ramsey Principles)

1. Take Personal Responsibility.
   Own your mistakes, don’t wait for someone else to rescue you.

2. Transparency in Relationships.
   Combine money in marriage, communicate openly; secrecy and “financial affairs” destroy trust and compound financial problems.

3. Don’t Be ‘Normal’.
   “Normal is broke.” It’s abnormal to live with debt, make emotional decisions, or assume big risks on speculation.

4. The Baby Steps Work (if you do).
   The 7-step process—no matter your previous ‘stupid’ decisions—works everywhere, every time, for anyone who commits.

5. Sell What’s Needed to Escape Debt.
   Cars, investments, prized possessions—whatever it takes, especially if the math or lifestyle doesn’t add up.

6. Keep Your Eyes Wide Open.
   Beware of scams (especially in desperation/fear or greed); avoid shady loans and predatory deals.

7. Budgeting Is a Game Changer.
   Every Dollar app, “tell your money where to go”—not the other way around.

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• 00:58: HVAC Lease Disaster
• 11:14: College Student and Car Debt Meltdown
• 19:13: “We love you… but we’ll smack you upside your stupid head”
• 22:24: Vacation vs. Emergency Fund
• 27:48: Credit Scores, Renting, and Independence
• 36:30: Why the Debt Snowball Works
• 44:25: Should We Merge Finances in a Marriage with Secrecy?
• 54:41: Retirement Scammed for Crypto
• 66:21: Life Insurance Needs as Circumstances Change
• 70:49: Single in LA—Rent, Move, or What?
• 76:32: Young Couple, Unified Finances, and Building Wealth
• 86:10: $60,000 Wedding—How Much Is Too Much?
• 95:41: Divorce, Teacher’s Dilemma, and Business Funds
• 110:17: What To Do With Scholarship Overfunded 529

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This episode provides classic Ramsey Show real-talk: empathetic but unfiltered, focused on practical steps, behavior change, and a deep belief that anyone—no matter how big the “mess”—can turn their financial life around if they want it badly enough.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, before we get rolling, listen up. If you want to win with money in 2026, you can't keep living normal. Normal's broke. You need a plan. Get a personalized plan and start living like no one else by downloading our Every Dollar app Today. Normal is broke. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Jade Washall, number one best selling author Ramsey personality is my co host today. The number here, if you want to talk, is triple 882-55-5225. And we're going to talk about you right in front of you. Nancy's with us in Clarksville. Hey, Nancy, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Good, Dave, thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller or Guest]

My question is, I have paid off all my debt in step two, but the problem is I got involved in a lease for an H VAC system. The total cost of the system, when paid off at 10 years, will be over $62,000. So I'm wondering, do I pay it off using the debt snowball method and just get out of it, meaning I'm responsible for all that or just leave it until I do the house stuff?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Okay. I didn't know you could do a lease on a heat and air system. That sounds like, sounds like you got.

[Caller or Guest]

Attorney General and I went through Better Business Bureau and the Attorney General Consumer Protection Department said it is legal. It's being done all across the US So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but it's so bad that they. Yeah, it's horrible. Yeah. Okay, so a lease typically. I have no idea in this case, but typically would have an early buyout provision because leasing is simply financing and.

[Caller or Guest]

Early buyout financing is termination.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What does it cost to terminate it?

[Caller or Guest]

The cost of the whole contract? No, what you have remaining. Yes, yes, Sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir. 47. Right now, my lease buyout would be about $47,000. I paid, I've paid 15 now.

[Dave Ramsey]

You had an attorney look at that part also. Right.

[Caller or Guest]

I'm getting there. I. Right after I did the system, I got diagnosed with cancer. So I had, I got kind of sidelined for a few years. Now I'm like, wait a minute, I don't want to keep doing this. This is, this is thievery. It's theft.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. But okay, because, I mean, I know a lot of equipment leasing, certainly car leasing, and I've looked at the contracts on all kinds of leasing deals, even employee leasing they have out there now, which is really strange. And every one of those have a buyout provision that is less than the total of payments because you're giving them their capital early, you're giving them their money early. And so they're not collecting interest, so to speak, even though it's not technically an interest rate. And so almost every one I've ever seen, but I've never seen a heat and air one, so I don't know. My God. Honey. All right, so let's do two things. Number one, I want you to reinvestigate that part of it, okay? Because as suspect as this whole thing is that part of it. Suspect. So if the total of your remaining payments is 47, a normal buyout provision would put you somewhere in the 30s. And the way you would do that, if that's the case, is instead of paying them in advance, like double payments, like you would on a debt snowball, you simply save the money up. You pay yourself into a savings account and then write them one check if there is a discount for early payout. Okay. And there typically is, if there is not. Either way, what is your income?

[Caller or Guest]

I just retired from Federal Service, so my income is roughly 2,400.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, this goes in baby step six, then, because it is the equivalent of a second mortgage, and it's a lien on your house, because it's a lien on your heating and air system. And you would pay it off in baby step six when you're paying off the house.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your interest rate on your home?

[Caller or Guest]

2.25.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No bueno there. We leave that alone. Okay. Because if you had a higher interest rate, I would suggest refinancing and taking them out.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. My mortgage balance is 169.

[Dave Ramsey]

So when you get to baby step six, you knock out the lease first. Either way, whether you get a discount or not, because it's more than half your annual income. When a home equity loan or a second mortgage of any kind is more than half your annual income, we move it to baby step six. Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

I've never heard of such a thing.

[Sponsor or Advertisement Voice]

I'm just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, there's a lot of things that I get on the show that this is where I learn about it. And then I have to go look it up later and go, oh, it is a thing. So you know what else? I didn't ask. She said, federal employee. I. Clarksville is a. Is a base. Military base.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So these may be morons that are preying on our military people.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. That's big. That's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Which makes us, like, double. Yeah, a double Negative for this company that does that. So. So if you're. If your son is out there, mom, and. And his new job is selling heat and air leases, tell him don't be a crook and go do something else with his life. Oh, there we go.

[Jade Washall]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

I helped with that. Yeah, Just throw a dart out there into the universe to see if we can hit a balloon. Why not? Yeah, man. Oh, man. Cause I did have that happen one time. I was ripping on the payday lenders at 800%.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, gosh, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a lady called and said, well, my son owns two of those stores. I said, well, tell him to sell them. Quit being scum. He's ripping off poor people. He's oppressing the poor. Read about what happens in the Bible when you do that. It's not good for you. It's not a place you want to be messing with widows, orphans, and oppressing the poor. These are not three things you want to do in the Bible. And really, just as a matter of living your life properly. Hello. But yeah, they're scum. They're scum. So, yeah, don't be scummy. And then you're safe on the show.

[Jade Washall]

We won't talk about you.

[Dave Ramsey]

We won't talk about your kid. We won't talk about you. We won't do any of that. So interesting to side note, the lease on a car, and I suspect it's true on a heating and air system, is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. Several publications, including Ramsey Research, have done detailed research on this. And when you run the math out. So you can take a financial calculator and say, this is what the MSRP is on the car, which is what it's calculated on. Here's, here's what the buyout is at the end of the lease. A closed end lease always has a number. After three years, four years, seven years, whatever it is, you can buy the car for 12,000, but it was a $64,000 car or whatever it is. So you've got those two numbers and then you have the number that is the monthly payment. When you put those into a financial calculator, you can figure out what the effective cost of capital is. That's a fancy way of saying the interest rate. However, interest rates are not disclosed on leases like they are on car loans. The Federal Trade Commission requires they hand you one piece of paper with your APR on it. Even if they're screwing you, they have to hand you that piece of paper. And you'll look down and you'll see, 38% or 28% or 12%, you know, you'll know you got subprimed, right? On a lease, you don't have to do that because lease is not technically borrowing money. But you can run out, but it is borrowing money.

[Jade Washall]

So that cost of capital, there's no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cap, no cap at all. And no knowledge of what it is unless you know how to run a financial calculator. And I've done it on probably 40 or 50 leases over the years. Every time I do it, it comes out between 14 and 17%. And so those of you that are. I got my BMW on a lease because my accountant said that was the smartest way to do it. You're an idiot. You got hammered. You're paying 17%, you should fire your accountant and get rid of your Beamer. You're getting hammered, but you never did any math. You just thought you were sophisticated. Jeez. No, you wanted a Beamer. That's what it was. And there's a way to get a Beamer. Very little down, a lot a month and very little at the end. Yeah, this is the problem.

[Jade Washall]

Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

We got a lot of calls on.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Sponsor or Advertisement Voice]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Jade Washall Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Thank you for joining us. Michael is in Toronto. Hey, Michael. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller or Guest]

Hey. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm currently 18, and by the time I graduate, I'm probably looking at 100 to $120,000 loan that I'm sitting at. And my current car is under my mom's name with her interest rates on it. And her credit got ruined by my dad leaving. And I'm looking to switch the car with way less percentage of interest, but I have to max out my credit cards for the interest for the down payments to put on it. And I don't know what to do if it's even worth it or not.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your car? What do you owe on the car?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm sitting. So I bought the car at 30,000. I'm looking at 41,000 right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're a college student, first year.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

With a $40,000 freaking car. What are you doing with a $40,000 car? You're a college student.

[Caller or Guest]

I had a $70,000 car and another 60,000. I sold it. I made profit, but my mom's credit got ruined and they gave me a 12% interest on it. And I didn't realize till yesterday when I checked and I only had it for five months.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think this is your mom's fault. You bought a $30,000 car and you're in a $40,000 car and you're in college. You be. You get a $4,000 car.

[Jade Washall]

Do you make any money? What's your income?

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm sitting at 1,000 to 1,500 from my work at retail. And I had side businesses before and I had like about $70,000. I blew it all and now I make maybe 500 to $1,000 for my side businesses a month.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. Do you have any money saved?

[Caller or Guest]

Nothing. I'm in debt for credit cards.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so the car, you owe 41,000 on it. If you sold it. Private sale, what's it worth?

[Caller or Guest]

Or your mortgage Right now with a trade in, they're giving me 28, 7.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, my gosh.

[Caller or Guest]

That's a trade in $12,000 negative equity on it.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. But let's look at. That's your homework is to look at the Kelley Blue Book value. If you did private sale, because you're going to get more for it.

[Caller or Guest]

I did. It's 30,500.

[Jade Washall]

30,500. Okay. If I were in your shoes, I can't.

[Caller or Guest]

There's a lien on the car, but I can't pay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, you make a thousand dollars a month, your car payments. More than that, isn't it?

[Caller or Guest]

My car payments comes exactly to 1000 insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how are you paying it?

[Caller or Guest]

Credit cards, basically everything. I don't. No, no, I can't put on credit instead. Basically everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, if you. If you make a thousand dollars a month and you spend a thousand month on your car, you don't have money to put gas in it and you don't have money to eat.

[Caller or Guest]

So I just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Math doesn't work out a lot.

[Caller or Guest]

I don't know how and no, I make like 1500. I can. On a good month, I make 2000 on small months in retail, I make 1500.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so you got 500 to spare. You eat a little bit, you pay your insurance, you get gas, you've got nothing left.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let me. Let me stop a second because I did a drive by on something a minute ago. I want to know more about. You had $70,000 in savings. You said from a side hustle that you blew. Did I hear you say that?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tell me about that side hustle. Where did all that wonderful money come from?

[Caller or Guest]

It came from. I used to sell screen protectors and cases during COVID when I was 14. And Amazon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So no Covid, no business. Gotcha. Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

[Caller or Guest]

And I gave most of it to my mom after the separation, and she's sitting at least at 300 to $400,000 herself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. You're 18. 18. Your mother is not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to love her and cheer for her, but not. You are. She's not your financial responsibility. So this has got to stop. And unless you can create a huge income, you need to get rid of this car and get a $2,000 car.

[Caller or Guest]

I tried doing that, but I have to. So the loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd put the $10,000 on a credit card. I'd rather have $10,000 on a credit CARD than 41,000 on a car. Amen.

[Caller or Guest]

I can't. I can't put it on a credit card.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller or Guest]

I have maybe 3,500 left on a credit that I can spend. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, who do you owe the 41,000 to?

[Caller or Guest]

To a bank.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go down, talk to the bank about signing a note for the difference.

[Caller or Guest]

Do that. Right. And then what about on the new car? So that's the thing that doesn't make sense to me. On the new car that I looked at that I'm going to get. See monthly payments instead of 96 month loan, it says.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't say anything about monthly payments. I said get a $2,000 car.

[Caller or Guest]

We tried when we went to the bank.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't want you to go to the bank. I want you to come up with $2,000 and go buy a car.

[Caller or Guest]

Just buy a car?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Are you. Are you in school full time?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Are you on campus? You're at home or at home?

[Caller or Guest]

Like where do I live? At home.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. How close are you to campus? What I'm getting at is you might go through two months where you don't have a vehicle and you make it work.

[Caller or Guest]

And you.

[Jade Washall]

And instead of using that thousand dollars a month to pay for a car note, you use it to save up and get yourself a little beater car is what we're saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have one of your buddies take you.

[Caller or Guest]

To class away from campus.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Here's the thing. We keep throwing suggestions out, and the only answer you've got is, it doesn't work. So let me tell you what doesn't work. Your life. The way you have it set up right now, your situation sucks beyond belief. The decisions you have made are beyond suicidal financially. So you've got to throw a stick of dynamite in the middle of this freaking mess you've created. And it's gonna be really uncomfortable. But you know what's gonna be more uncomfortable? You sit there in this pile of stuff and you're gonna smell like this stuff as long as you sit there in it, coming up with excuses to sit there in it. So you have got to get rid of this mess. You've got to create a big. You may need to quit school. You need to go get some dadgum money and start cleaning up this mess. So I want you working like 80, 90 hours a week, going to school on caffeine, and doing what normal people do when they get in this instead of telling me, oh, my mom got screwed over by my dad when he left. I'm sorry, but that doesn't mean you buy a $70,000 car while you're in college and downgrade it to a $41,000 car and act like that's smart. Nowhere in this conversation is Smart. Smart didn't come up today, okay?

[Jade Washall]

No, it didn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

It didn't even show up here. So, dude, you've got to get rid of the car, and you've got to figure this out some way or another. Now, we're giving you lots of suggestions, okay? Take. Get. Get a buddy to take that's in the neighborhood to take you to college. Quit college for a year and take you a gap year and go clean this mess up while you work like a freaking maniac. But you are, man. You cannot. There's nothing in this. The math works. Sixth graders could tell you this. Math doesn't work. This is a mess. And so, no, you can't keep this car. And no, you can't keep this life the way it is designed right now. That's why you called.

[Jade Washall]

And you can't get another car.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm not going to argue with you about it anymore. I'm through talking to you about it. So you go fix this.

[Caller or Guest]

We.

[Dave Ramsey]

We gave you some suggestions, but part of fixing it is you've got to decide that where I live, the land I live in right now is the land of stupid, and I want to leave. That's. That's the first decision you got to make, and we ain't even been able to get that far with you. So that's where you got to go, man. That's where you got to go. Open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225. Now, Jay, let's just review the policies on this show.

[Jade Washall]

Review it.

[Dave Ramsey]

We love you. All of you. If you've done something stupid, we love you anyway. We've done something stupid. I have a PhD in dumb. Jade and Sam cleaned up $465,000 worth of stupid in their life. So no one's sitting here high and mighty talking down to someone. So we love you. We love you so much. We're going to tell you the truth. We're going to start gentle, and we're going to start by trying to help you move along. But if you want to argue with us while we're trying to help you, it's going to get nasty fast because we love you. I'm going to smack you upside your stupid head until you listen to the stuff that'll make your life better. Now, I will start with a gentle handshake and say, honey, this is the best way to do it. Well, Dave, I listen to you all the time, but I'm not selling the car. Well, you're an idiot. You got to sell the car. That's what. That's how it's going to sound around here, honey. Okay? So we're going to serve you when you call here. You're not entertainment value for us. You're a calling for us. You're a crusade for us. We want you to win. And we're going to do everything in our power, starting at first gently and turning up the heat by degrees during the time we're on the phone together until we have contact. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Washall]

Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. The holidays are here, which means family time, giving back and remembering what the season is all about.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let's be real, it also means shopping, y'.

[Jade Washall]

All. If you're anything like me. December gets really busy and really expensive.

[Caller or Guest]

It's harder to stay intentional with your spending. And that's why I love shopping on.

[Jade Washall]

Amazon, especially this time of year. Named the lowest priced US online retailer.

[Caller or Guest]

For nine years running by Profitero, a.

[Jade Washall]

Third party analytics and research firm, Amazon's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Prices are up to 14% lower across.

[Caller or Guest]

Top categories and and beat competitors by.

[Jade Washall]

Up to 5% in key gift categories. Between amazing deals, stress free shopping and fast shipping, Amazon makes gift giving simpler, the holiday season a little brighter and.

[Caller or Guest]

Helps me keep my budget in check.

[Jade Washall]

That allows me to get back to enjoying the season. What more could a busy mom ask for? So for more information about Amazon's low prices and easy, affordable holiday shopping, head to Amazon today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality is my co host today. Open phones at Triple 8-825-5225. Jaden is in Casper, Wyoming. Hi, Jaden. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller or Guest]

Thank you for taking my call, fellas.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. Merry Christmas. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

My wife's been pestering me for quite some time now to take her on a vacation. I'm not sure right now is the time to do it. We're both pretty young. I'm 25, she's 21. We got a little one on the way here before too long and we're getting ready to purchase a property we intend to build on.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. Do you guys have debt?

[Caller or Guest]

No debt, no debt. We've been very fortunate that way. Community college educated.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what's your household income?

[Caller or Guest]

I bring about 50,000 home after taxes and she brings about 20,000. And that's part of the issue is that next year her income will be going away. She's a preschool teacher now, but with the little ones she's going to stay home.

[Jade Washall]

Do you have an emergency fund saved?

[Caller or Guest]

We do. The thing that concerns me is that after the down payment on the property. That's what we'll be left with, is with our emergency fund. So to take that vacation, we'd be kind of having to dig into that a little bit.

[Jade Washall]

Well, a vacation is not an emergency, so I would not dig into the emergency fund to take an emergency to take a vacation ever. What does she want to spend?

[Caller or Guest]

She wants to go somewhere warm, you know, Wyoming, this time of year. You want to kind of leave it a little bit about 2000.

[Jade Washall]

2000. Okay, so have you run. Have you run out the numbers? On what? Here's the thing. I'm not saying. I'm not saying no, and I'm not saying when, but you can decide when you can look at this and go, okay, my wife wants to take a vacation. We've never taken a vacation. We're debt free. We have an emergency fund. We're also trying to move in this house.

[Dave Ramsey]

What.

[Jade Washall]

What can that look like? And when is the time to take it? Because if you just tell her no and you kind of just swat it away like a nat, she's going to get irritated.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no, that's not your position anyway. It's your position for two. She's not a child, okay? The two of you ought to sit down as two adults and go, okay, yeah, vacation is a good thing. Emergency funds a good thing. Having a baby is a good thing. Buying this piece of ground is a good thing. None of these are bad things. Now, where do they fit in our lives with our goals as grownups? You know, you can't just be a kid on the cereal aisle throwing a fit. You have to be like an adult, both of you. And so I don't want you being her daddy and have to talk her off the ledge. I want her to grow up and look at it and say, as a grown woman who has a child, what is responsible for me? Yeah, I want to take a vacation. I'd love to take a vacation, but as a grown woman looking at this, I can't afford to do it right this second because I'm not going to be working next year after the baby comes. Or as a grown woman looking at this, I've got a child on the way. I really want to do this. You know, we do have $86,000 in the emergency fund. We probably can go ahead and take a vacation because you've overfunded the emergency fund, Bubba. I don't know what's in this emergency, but, I mean, she needs to participate in this decision as a grown up, not as someone who has a parent that they're married to.

[Jade Washall]

That's right. But. And if she's laid out how you guys can do this, then. And it's wise and it's wise, then you've also got to be open, going.

[Dave Ramsey]

You gotta be a grown up though. It can't be. I want it. I deserve it. You know, I don't. Bull crap. That's what 14 year olds do. That's not what grown women do. Grown men do.

[Jade Washall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

So no, you have to be emotionally mature and say what is good for our family. And if in the midst of that we can do this reasonably and we don't leave our family vulnerable with no emergency fund because we went on vacation, that would be stupid.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, that's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or leave our family vulnerable since you're going to be quitting work and staying home with the child and you can't make your bills because you went on vacation last winter because it's cold in Wyoming, which is not a shock to anyone in Wyoming for sure. And so, you know, that kind of. So I mean, what I want to do is just pull her into the conversation as a grown woman, not as someone who's. I have. I can't get my husband to let me do stupid stuff. I mean, this is just. That's ridiculous. That's not a conversation you want to have in a marriage. It needs to be. The two of you are. We have this child, we have his future. What makes sense. And yes, vacations are part of the equation. I got no issue with that at all. But, but where they fit is your point, Jade? Absolutely. You know where and when.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. They don't strike me as people who are not smart with their money. They've paid off their debt. They've got an emergency fund there. Looks like they're trying to do this house the right way. I have a feeling that he's laser focused and sometimes has to remember like, hey, we can, we can do some things. Sometimes that's just my, my spidey sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Could be. Could be. Yeah. Could be loosening the nerd up.

[Jade Washall]

Loosening up the nerd.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But she needs to do that with reason.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not with emotion.

[Jade Washall]

That's right. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that, that's a fair. That's a fair request for a grown up. Steven is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi, Stephen. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas.

[Caller or Guest]

Merry Christmas. How are y'? All?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, so here's my situation. I'm 20 years old, I'm engaged and I'm planning on getting married in June. And that being said, we're looking to get an apartment together in June because that's what you do. You move in together once you get married. I'm completely debt free. She has a little bit of student loan debt, but that's kind of beside the point. The question for me is, my grandma opened up a credit card for me to use strictly as a gas card. And that's my only credit card. And she always pays it on time. But that being said, I have.

[Jade Washall]

She pays it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you're 20 years old. Why'd your grandmother pay your card?

[Caller or Guest]

That. That was her way of saying that she wants to support me through college. That was her gift to me. And so I can totally afford my own gas. But that's just good gifts she wanted to give to me. And. But I know that I want to get this apartment. And I really like the sound of what y' all talk about, of letting your credit score roll over to nothing. But I'm afraid that if I say, hey, Grandma, thank you, but let's close this card. I appreciate the gesture. I can pay for this. That my credit score will plummet, but it won't flip and disappear before that time in June when I'm trying to get an apartment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honey, you don't have to have a credit score to get an apartment.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's. That's. That's mythology. We've done this about six times in Ramsey in the last six or eight years. One of the personalities will jump on the phone and call 15 apartment complexes and say, hey, I'm moving to Nashville. I do. You guys. I don't have a credit score. Cause I'm just out of school and I got zero credit score. Do you guys. You guys rent to people without a credit score? 9 out of 10 say they do. Some of them. A couple of them want an extra deposit, but most of them are just, no, it's no big deal. Come on over. That's just complete mythology that people have spread out there among your age group. It's just not true.

[Caller or Guest]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

9 out of 10 or don't care if you have a credit score.

[Caller or Guest]

Awesome. I did not know that. I was under the impression that my credit score would plummet, and that might jeopardize whether or not we'd be able to move in your.

[Jade Washall]

Your credits. When you stop borrowing money, your credit score will go away. It's not going to plummet. It's just going to disappear. But to Dave's point, you're. He's right. There are plenty of places that you don't need a credit score to go. And so you'll just do your due diligence and find one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You know, just, you know, can't rent to those. Can't rent from those guys because they require one. I can rent from these people over here, though.

[Jade Washall]

And by the way, that's a great litmus test, because when you move into an apartment, you want to have a super or whoever's in charge that uses their brain because things are going to happen. You're going to need to talk to them about things and you want something fixed. Right. You want somebody who uses their brain. So that's a great way to start.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And if the only way they approve you is by a number that's not using your brain. No definition.

[Jade Washall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. Good stuff. Yeah. You can look those calls up. We've had different personalities do this over the years and they're on the YouTube channel and you can see the. Them making phone calls to the apartments and, and it's recorded and you can hear the conversation.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. George did one on. On the Fine print, remember? Yeah, that's the one I remember. And he. He did. He went out and he was able to call him and there were plenty that did. You just have to call around a little bit. It's not going to be the first. It may not be the first doorstep that you go to. That's all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And yes, you need to. It'll be good for your marriage to get off the grandmother dole.

[Jade Washall]

I know that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Good for you. Good for you, Stephen. Well done, sir. This is the Ramsey Show. If you've got collectors breathing down your neck and you're drowning in credit card debt, you don't need another debt relief company trying to sell you sunshine and unicorns. You need real help. And Guardian Litigation Group is the real deal. They're not a call center. They're actual attorneys. That means when a creditor tries to sue you, they can step into the courtroom and fight back. Now, listen, debt settlement isn't pretty. It's not a magic wand. And I'd prefer you get out of debt the old fashioned way. But if you're staring down bankruptcy and you've got no other way out, Guardian gives you a path to clean up the mess without paying a dime up front. Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55,000 people across the nation settle over $600 million of debt. So if you're ready to take back control of your life and stop cringing every time the phone rings go to guardianlit.com ramsey that's guardianlit.com/ramsey paid endorsement attorney advertising guardian litigation group llp not available in Minnesota and Oregon. Results vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Debt settlement may negatively affect credit and not all creditors will negotiate or settle. Savings vary and may be taxable. Please review our website terms for more information. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225 There are a few things in my life that I've run into that other than things from the Bible that I am 1000% sure work teaching the seven baby steps that we teach here. The first one save $1,000. The second one is get out of debt. Everything but the house using a debt snowball and gazelle intensity, as if you're running from a cheetah. The gazelle runs for its life. That's the intensity you use to get out of debt. You sell so much stuff the kids think they're next. You don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. And you're not going on vacation because you're a broke person in debt. And you are ears laid back, running headlong straight into this getting rid of it baby. And we're going to leave it all on the field. That's baby step number two. And then you go on to building an emergency fund, retirement plan, kids college, pay off the house and become very wealthy. Those are the seven baby steps, in essence, and you can find those everywhere. And the total money makeover book is where we outline them. We've sold 12 million copies of that. 10 million people have been through Financial Peace University where we teach those baby steps and how to implement them. So tens of millions, literally of people. And there's tens of millions of you listening at this moment to this podcast on YouTube and on talk radio. So we know that easily 100 million people have done some stage or some process of the baby steps and with varying degrees of success because of varying degrees of commitment and sacrifice, like you do with anything. So it's a proven thing. It's not a theory that comes out of a test tube. The debt snowball is probably what we've become best known for. Now this is where you list all of your debts except your home, smallest to largest. You pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. You attack the little one with a vengeance. You squeeze every dollar, every drop out of your budget and you throw it at the little one. You work extra. You sell stuff. You clean out a savings account all the way down to $1,000. You stop putting money in your 401. You get term insurance and cash in your stupid whole life policy. You sell a car if it's too expensive, you do whatever you gotta do and you throw every dime at that smallest debt until it's gone. When that one's gone, you take the payment you used to pay there and every dime you can squeeze out of everything else and you put it on number two. And when number two's gone, the payment from number one and number two are freed up. The snowball rolls over again, it picks up more snow and it attacks the third one. And you're doing this with just increasing levels of hope, increasing levels of sacrifice, increasing levels of passion. And every time the snowball rolls over and you get rid of another payment, that' much more money freed up in your monthly budget to attack the next one down. And it's been unbelievably successful.

[Jade Washall]

But, Dave, I got to be, I'm the person because I know what they say in the comments. I, I, I see what people are asking. And the bigger, the biggest two questions are this, Dave, I've got my debt listed. What if I have a debt that the interest rate is just killing me? Why would I put the lower one first? Why would I list them small to largest if it means me, you know, having to pay this high interest loan for much longer? What about the math, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's brain chemistry. A dopamine is released when you complete a task. There's a dopamine release and it's called a feedback loop in psychology. And so when you have success at something, you're more likely to repeat the task.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the faster you have successful and the more often you have success, the more you've got a feedback loop and the more the dopamine release is there. In a spiritual realm, we would call this hope. You start to believe it's going to work because it's working. And then you lean in that much more and you lean in that much more and you lean in that much more. And that's why this works. Because no one sat down at their kitchen table and said, hey, let's go deeply in debt, because that's a good idea. A series of behaviors put you into debt. And you don't fix a behavior problem with a math solution. You fix a behavior problem with a behavior solution. And the feedback loop, this positive feedback. I knocked out one. Yeah, I knocked out another one. Yeah, I knocked out another one.

[Jade Washall]

Whoa.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're down. You're Beating on the. You're beating on that student loan. You're beating on that big one. You're beating on that car. And you're.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And now you're starting to yell at your neighbors, think there's problems over there, you know? Cause you're getting fired up. Because it's working. And that's the dopamine release. That's hope that you're starting to believe. And when I first started, I paid off the little one. I wasn't so sure. And the next one, well, maybe this will work. And then the next one, yeah, it's gonna work. And the third was like. And then your broke friends start making fun of you, and you want to punch them, you know? And so this is. This is. This is why it works. And that's why the debt avalanche does not work.

[Jade Washall]

That's right. Or consolidation, you know, when people.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. Because you don't change your habits.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

The debt avalanche is where you. It's, you know, you list your. It's mathematically correct. Well, honey, if we were doing math, we wouldn't have credit card debt. It's not a math problem. It's a stupid problem. That's what we have to fix. The stupid, not the math. And so the math is, you know, we're going to list it highest interest rate to smallest interest rate. Because this interest rate's killing me. And here's the problem. While that sounds like it's mathematically correct, it's not. Because your math that you're using is very naive, and you left variables out of the math formula. Here's a variable you left out of your math formula. Probability of completion. If your probability of completion is 80 or 90% with a snowball, but the math is running against you, net of probability of completion, it's going to beat the avalanche because the probability completion is close to zero. Almost no one finishes that because there's no feedback loop, no dopamine release, no hope release, no sacrifice increase, increase. No getting the spouse on board. Because this crap starting to work. For the first time in my life, I'm telling money what to do instead of it telling me what to do. I am not relinquishing this control ever again. You start getting a little swagger, man, you're ready to go.

[Jade Washall]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's why this thing works and why so many millions of people have gotten out of debt using the Ramsey system, which is just freaking common sense. But, you know, you people there think your debt avalanche is mathematically superior. No, your math is naive and your formula is incomplete because you don't know what the flip you're doing. So Northwestern University did a study of the debt snowball versus the avalanche. And they concluded because of probability of completion that the snowball was far superior. Because if you quit and you don't get out of debt, who cares? Using the mathematically superior, which is not really mathematically superior, it doesn't work.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you don't get completion. You don't get to the goal. So, and then Time magazine comes out and does a story on the Northwestern studio Northwestern study and they go, turns out Dave Ramsey was right. Like we didn't already know that. We've got like millions of proof text here. We've got so much social proof on this. That's unbelievable. We beat your research project into submission. So good God, people, this is not that hard. Get your butt out of debt. Your number one wealth building tool is your income. And when you're giving it to stupid bank of America, Lexus motor credit and MasterCard, who's your master of your life? You know, and you wonder why you work so hard and I make $100,000 a year and I got nothing. It's because you're giving it all to these stupid banks. And you've got to get back control of your life. You just, you work too hard to be broke, people. You need to retain control of your life. This is so empowering.

[Jade Washall]

It is. So, Dave, get a little bit more tactical because we know. Okay, we're listening. Small solarges. Okay, Dave, I will do the debt snowball method. But what, where do cars fit into that? You're telling people all the time to sell their car. That's not my smallest debt. Do I do it first? Do I wait until I get to that on the debt snowball? When do I sell my car?

[Dave Ramsey]

The rule is if you can pay the car off and all the other debt within two years, not counting your house and you like the car, keep it in the debt snowball and pay it off. But if the car is keeping you from making it out in two years, if it's one of the reasons, okay, but if you got a $5,000 car and a $200,000 student loan, the car is not your problem.

[Jade Washall]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you got a $70,000 car and a $6,000 student loan and you can't make it out in two years, well, it's the car, stupid. So get rid of the dumb car. So can you get rid of the thing and do you like it? Well, I hate it. Well, get rid of it's. You get rid of it even if you weren't broke because you don't like the stupid thing. But I love the car and I can pay it off and all of my other debts with the money I have in savings and the money I can earn and using the debt snowball during a two year period of time. Then keep the car. I'm fine with that. Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

And the only exception would be the irs. That's the only thing that jumps to the top of the list.

[Dave Ramsey]

Child support, child support, anything like that goes to the front of the list because they're going to come get it anyway.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And child support. You take care of babies before you do any of this. Shut up. But the, you know the IRS is going to get their, their pound of flesh so you need to put them at the front and get rid of them as soon as possible. They have collection abilities nobody else has. This is the Ramsey Show.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one best selling author is. My co host Sarah is in Virginia Beach. Hi Sarah, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hi. I'm doing well.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

I guess I have a question about debt and merging everything. I'm a new edition. Me and my husband recently got married in December 12, 2024 and I didn't know that he wasn't as financially responsible as I thought. He has I guess been more secretive about his debt. I'm a bit more like open about it and he wants the merge accounts but I'm not comfortable with doing it as of yet because he's kind of been very secretive and has lied to me about certain debts. And I'm working on now using, like, your plan to get myself out of debt because I bought a home before we got married back in 2023. I have a car I'm working on paying off, which is supposed to be paid off later, maybe next year, and a couple other few debts. But he has many more that I wasn't aware of, and some that I think he's secretive about still. We're going to marriage counseling, but I just. I don't know how to be more comfortable with merging our accounts together and fear like, we'll be deeper in debt versus trying to have more assets.

[Jade Washall]

Give me an example. So let's clarify, because part of. Part of the solution to the problem is you merging accounts, because when you merge them, then you can see everything that's going on. Right. There's transparency there. So give me an example of what that deceit looked like. Was it. I asked him how much the. The bill was, and he said it was 300, but really it was 3,000. Tell me an example of what that is.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, so when we. When he moved into the home out of his rental, it was that he wasn't making enough at the moment because he needed to still finish paying off, like electricity bills, gas bill, things like that. So I told him, okay, how long did you need to do that? And it was about two months.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And so when I was waiting for that time frame, I had got a bill in the mail, and it was from the gas company. And when I had asked him if he paid it, he told me yes. But when I ended up calling them, they told me that there was still a balance of $1200 for a gas bill.

[Dave Ramsey]

So when you asked him about that, what did he say?

[Caller or Guest]

He told me that it was paid. I never informed him that I called them until a little later, and he told me that he would end up taking of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, when you said I called them and you lied you didn't pay it, what did he say?

[Caller or Guest]

He just said that I did. It was. It was just firm. He was firm about that. He did pay it until I showed him, like, the bill.

[Jade Washall]

And then was he like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize there was still an outstanding balance. We're just really trying to get an. Here's what I'm trying to get an understanding.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you dealing with a liar or are you dealing with somebody who's disorganized and chaotic?

[Jade Washall]

Right.

[Caller or Guest]

It's more he. He has lied about many, many things, not just money. It just surprised me. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

In three months?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, it's been, I guess, 10 months now. But three months into. Yes, the marriage, I found out that he was lying. So everything before was being deceived in two separate homes while we were recording and things. And then got married. And now everything's in the home, and I'm seeing it more vividly.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so here. Here's. Here's what I'm trying to be clear about, because there is part of this, to Dave's point, where some people are just extremely unorganized with their money. And as they learn to get more organized, things get better and better. And then there's another part of you guys are married, and I'm wondering what the communication sounds like. Because of the communication is. Did you pay the bill? Yeah. And you're keeping it to yourself. No, he didn't. It's this much, Right. That all of that matters in this. In this situation. Now, what I do think is if he's lying, and they weren't past lives, but there are lies that are continuing on now, and you know about them, and if he's lying in other areas, not just money, then you do have a big problem on your hands.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you have a big enough problem. You need to be in the marriage counselor's office early and often right now, because your communication style isn't good. Because if at my house, if I said, hey, Sharon, did you pay that? She says, yes. And I went, I'm gonna check. And I call, and they go, no, it's not paid. I would go, hey, I called them. They didn't pay it. I wouldn't wait three days and stew about it. I'd walk in there right then and go, hey, what's up? You said you paid this, right? Like, right then. And she would be going, I thought I did. I screwed up. Or I was ashamed or I was scared or whatever. But at least we get to the bottom of it, right? Then we don't carry it around for four weeks and then label her a liar. That's a bad thing to be married to.

[Jade Washall]

And what I'm trying to understand from the beginning of your call is you're saying, now he wants to combine money, but you're the one who's afraid to. So I'm trying to understand if he's trying to make it right by saying, okay, let's just put everything together, then I don't have to try to, you know, keep something over here while you have it over here. But you're saying, now I don't feel comfortable doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So Are you too late? You're married, right?

[Jade Washall]

Are you worried? What can he do? What do you think he's going to do if you combine finances. Let me ask that question.

[Caller or Guest]

I think he's going to spend more because I'm like, what does the term people use? Like the bread winner. So I make majority of the funds he helps pay. Like, since we didn't have a merge account, he would just send me, like.

[Dave Ramsey]

What, what does he mean, what does he make?

[Caller or Guest]

That's another thing. He's kind of private about that, too. So he works for a cable company and it's supposed to be, quote, unquote, $12 an hour, but they have a point system. So week to week, sometimes he says he makes $500, sometimes it's only 300.

[Jade Washall]

So would he be direct deposited into your joint account then? If you combine finances, is it, hey, now we direct deposit all of our paychecks into this account. Not. You get paid and then put money into a merge account. All direct deposits go into the same account. That's how it works. And that's the only way we're doing right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then we know what he's making and.

[Caller or Guest]

What do you make the discussion. So I make 62,000 and some change a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long did you all date before you got married? Three months ago.

[Caller or Guest]

It was two years. About two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how many times have you sat with your marriage counselor in the last three months?

[Caller or Guest]

We've been going consistently. It's like once every three weeks. And now he's going one on one with the counselor, and I go one on one with a woman counselor.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, well, that's good that you're doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

At some point, we have to combine that process, too. All right.

[Caller or Guest]

He's a bit of a spender as well, so it kind of makes me. That's. I guess that's where it gets me a little.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, here's the thing. Here's the thing, okay? If you put all of your money into one account and you make a list of all the bills that have to be paid on every dollar, and you both agree to them, and we agree where every dollar of our income is going to go this month before the month begins, he has agreed to his spending level, and you have to before it occurs if he does otherwise, you're dealing with someone who can't keep a contract now with his wife. And then we got a problem there. That's a different kind of problem. Okay, but you're not solving a spender by staying separate from them. Combining is the only Way to get transparency and accountability on where every dollar is going. And you need to talk to your counselor about the language you are using towards your husband. You have contempt all in your language. You're rolling your eyes like you're so much better than him on every subject. And that is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, the primary reason people get divorced when contempt rolls in. So you've got to solve for that or this marriage isn't going to make.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Jade Washall Ramsey personality, is my co host. Triple 882-55-5225. Anna is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Anna. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I received this weekend, I received some devastating news that my husband was scammed out of his almost his entire 401k. And now it's tax time and we're gonna have to pay taxes on it. So we have no more retirement and our savings is going to be wiped out. And I don't know where he began from here.

[Dave Ramsey]

What did he. How did he get scammed? What did he put it in?

[Caller or Guest]

It was a crypto.

[Dave Ramsey]

Crypto?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Jade Washall]

How much?

[Caller or Guest]

270,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

270,000?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir.

Oh, there's a little bit of a backstory. I'm not making excuses for him, but there's a little bit of backstory. As to why he felt financially strapped, that he felt he needed to do this to secure a financial. Our financial future.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm 57. He's 58. We have no debt. We paid off our home in February of 2022.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household. What's your household income?

[Caller or Guest]

Right. I. Right now, he makes approximately 98,000 annually. And I. I'm currently not working. I had to quit my job in January of 2023 because I was diagnosed with cancer. And the medication that I'm on just causes me a lot of side effects that we chose. It's better for me to stay home because we could afford it. Obviously, we have no debt again. And he was. I think he was looking into securing our future so that he may be able to retire early. He started doing some research as to how to invest money he knows nothing about. He's not educated in that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your voice is fairly muffled. Speak directly into your phone, please.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, There you go. He's not. Okay. He's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. He's obviously, even if he is educated, he's not wise.

[Jade Washall]

And he got desperate. It sounded like he did.

[Dave Ramsey]

And right after I get desperate, I usually get stupid.

[Caller or Guest]

That's what it was. And. Oh, so that happened in January 2024, in about March or April, he came up to me and told me that. That he invested a little bit of money. And I was like, okay. And he says. And he showed me that it was. He showed me the app, and he showed me that the money was. I mean, we had made it. Made about three or four hundred thousand. And I said, okay, how much did you invest? And he told me at that time, he said, 30,000. I said, where did you get the money from? Because I take care of all the banking. And he said that he pulled it out of the 401k. And I said, okay, dumb mistake. You know, we'll get through this. I found a temporary job. I made enough money to cover the taxes. I calculated we probably owe about 6,000 taxes. I said, okay, great.

[Jade Washall]

We'll.

[Caller or Guest]

I'll take care of it, and I'll get a permanent job so it won't affect our savings. And now that it's tax time, I kept looking for the form that comes in the 1099 R, I believe. And he kept making excuses as to why he hasn't gotten. He had. We hadn't received it. So I kind of had a feeling that it was worse than what I knew and that it was worse than what he had told me. And this weekend he gave me the paper and it was 270,000. So now we will have to.

[Dave Ramsey]

And now it's worth zero, of course.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes. Well, he. I looked at it last night and there was about 16, 000 in it right now.

[Jade Washall]

But was it really a scam or did he just lose? Like, did he get scammed by a scammer or he invested the money and he lost the investment?

[Caller or Guest]

No, it wasn't an actual scammer. I had demanded that I. I. Back when he told me it was 30,000, I demanded to know where he sent it, how he sent it. I wanted to know everything. And apparently it was a company in Hong Kong. And I looked at the address and it's in the slums of Hong Kong. I'm like, why didn't you do the research before? Well, the thing is, now he said that it was the 200. I'm like, how can you go from 30,000 to 270,000? And he said it was about the same time he invested here in a couple different.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does he now own that this is stupid or is he still defending?

[Caller or Guest]

No, no, he owns it. He's been living with this for the past year. And it's. I mean, he had his.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, he was lying about it 20 minutes ago.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, you said he just came clean with it.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, he just came clean with it, but he was living with that lie for the.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean, he's now saying out loud, I completely screwed this up.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, he has.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's important because otherwise he's going to do it again.

[Caller or Guest]

Right. And he's like, I'm prepared to work till I'm 70. I mean, yeah, you might as well right now.

[Jade Washall]

And, yeah, not a choice at this point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Belly up, buddy.

[Jade Washall]

How's your. How's your health? Are you improving?

[Caller or Guest]

It's getting there. I'm. I'm on a clinical trial. Okay. And so I'm hoping that this will be something that will, you know, give me more time. And I feel pretty good, except, you know, just the usual side effects. I mean, not the usual, but the side effects of medication. But thank you. I'm happy. You know, every day is a good day, and I'm not going to let this bring me down, but it does scare me for our future.

[Dave Ramsey]

The good news is you have no payments. And so what he needs to do is max out his 401k, and you'll need to max out your Roth IRAs, and you need to tell him that if he makes any transactions without the two of you being in agreement ever again, that that will be the last time he'll do. So as your husband, absolutely. He needs to understand that this has extreme consequences because he not only did something stupid, he lied about it at length, deceived, created a web, a full scenario of lies that concerns me, actually, more than a stupidity.

[Caller or Guest]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, you know, that's a big deal. So, yeah, you guys can catch up. I mean, you can make 120, and you max out your 401ks and Roths. Max out your Roths and work another 10 years, 12 years, and you will have enough of a nest egg to retire on if you don't do this again. But as soon as he gets desperate and tries to pull off a fast one, that's when you get messed over. And so. Ouch. I'm so sorry, honey. With everything you're facing, it's just not fair. Wow. All right, guys, let me give you a couple principles on that. There's a guy who scammed a bunch of people and wrote a book from jail in the 70s. The book he wrote about himself was con man or saint. Obviously, he thought he was a saint, but he was in jail, so he was a con man. Okay. But I read that book in the early 80s as a teenager, early 20s. And the only thing I really got out of the book was he said it's almost impossible to con someone unless they are afraid or greedy. This guy was afraid. His wife had cancer. He's trying to get a bunch of money so that he can not have to work and take care of her. And he got desperate based on fear. And that set him up in the emotional category to be conned. The other crypto people that get conned are the greedy ones. They're trying to make double your money in 20 minutes. Because I'm the cool kid and I'm the smart one, and I grew up with a cell phone in my hand, a smartphone in my hand, so I know everything about digital. No, you don't. You're a greedy fool, and you're gonna lose your butt in crypto also. The second thing you can not you can do is who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above Rudy Ruby's. The heart of her husband safely trusts her, and he will have no lack of gain if you have to hide the investment or the financial move from your spouse. Warning, warning, warning. You're screwing up. I have no lack of gain because, Sharon, I talk about it before we do it. And it keeps me on the rails. This is the Ramsey Show. Finally, mortgage rates have dropped. And you know what that means. People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you gotta be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their homebuyer Edge program gives you peace of mind. In a wild market, you can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than preapproval. It makes you look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to Churchill Mortgage.com to get started today. That's Churchill Mortgage.com this is a paid advertisement.

[Jade Washall]

Home buyer edge and Seller guarantee are.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller or Guest]

Hey, how are you guys today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, they just have a quick question. So my husband and I got a term life insurance policy through Xander when our son was first born. But that was 15 years and since then life has hit a little bit. We are still making progress with our debt snowball. We're actually planning to pay off our last debt by hopefully February. However we're not there yet. But over the years our income has increased quite a bit. So when we were first married we were making about 70 combined. Now we're making about 180. So my question is, why is it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Taking you 15 years to get out of debt?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, you know, maybe weren't so gazelle.

Intense, like not at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Right, right. But we're getting there now. So we're getting really close and we.

[Dave Ramsey]

So everything. You still have a mortgage and you still have what else?

[Caller or Guest]

We have 8,000 on my student loan and we've got our mortgage and that is all we have left.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Jade Washall]

So what's the question today?

[Caller or Guest]

So the question today, we are curious, do we need to consider increasing our life insurance through Xander, given that our income has gone up? I know the Recommendation is like 10 to 12% of your overall income or because we're so close to being debt free. Do we not need to take that approach because ultimately we'll be self funded through insurance.

[Jade Washall]

No, you need to extend because self. Being self insured would denote that you've got a massive nest egg of wealth that can cover you when those situations arise. And you don't have that just yet. If you keep going with intensity, you will. But if you play the next 15 years like you've paid the played this last 15 years, you're still going to be in debt. Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'll still have a mortgage.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, we are definitely not looking to do that. We're definitely looking to get to tax that mortgage as soon as the student loans paid off. So everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have enough money now when you have enough money in investments that the income off of the investments will support you. If he dies, then you're self insured, you're not there. We want you to be okay if something happens to him and you're not there. Okay. And we want him to be okay if something happens to you. And make sure the kiddos are fed and so forth. And that would be that. You know, and so if you had a million dollars and it was producing 10%, that'd be a hundred thousand dollars.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's not even. That won't even take care of you now because you're making 180. And so you'd need about $2 million in investments right now in zero debt in order to be self insured. Equal to, you know, having the right amount of life insurance. So. No. Yeah, you need to increase your life insurance and buy new policies if your 15 year fixed policy is running out by new ones. Yeah. And yeah. And here's the thing. If you do get intense, if that did happen and you get out of debt and you look up and there's a million or $2 million in investments and zero debt, you can cancel the life insurance. You don't have to keep paying it, you can just call them and cancel it. But if you're not, if you don't smoke folks, and you're not overweight, life insurance doesn't cost anything. It's very inexpensive. So 15 year level, 15 to 20 year level fixed rate. And the idea is that during that 15 years you pay off your mortgage and you get out of debt and you build up some investments and the kids grow up and leave.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

During that 15 to 20 years. And so we don't have kiddos to take care of. We've got a pile of money and you, you work your way into a net worth that allows you to be self insured policy. And so, but you guys have been slow. So you get to re up your life insurance and, and you know, drop it later. But for right now you're not ready.

[Jade Washall]

That's a good question.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Felix is in Los Angeles. Hi Felix, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hi Dave. Thank you so much for the opportunity to be on the show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller or Guest]

I'm calling today to get more to get your advice on my current living situation. I work for a government utilities agency in Los Angeles as an engineer. I currently live in downtown LA. I'm paying about $3,000 in rent per month and I just turned 30 this year. And I watch your show. I hear you know, your advice about ownership and owning a home someday and that's a goal for mine, for my life as well. And I wanted to get your thoughts on, you know, renewing my lease, which expires this month, or going back home to stay with my parents.

[Jade Washall]

Well, how much do you bring home every month?

[Caller or Guest]

So after tax I bring home about somewhere between 6,000 to $6,500.

[Jade Washall]

So you're, what you're telling me is your rent's 50% of your take home?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, it's, yes, it's around that if you include utilities and you know. Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

So I think, you know, there's, there's one of two things that can happen here. You can either figure out a way to bust free and suddenly make $20,000, you know, a month, or you can look for someplace that's far less expensive for rent. What would you do if you moved, you know, away and move towards where your family is? What would you do for a living?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I would still be an engineer. My, my, my, my family stays in Fontana, which is about maybe 50 miles away from Los Angeles. So I.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have an engineering degree?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, I Have a bachelor's in civil engineering and I have a master's in environmental engineering.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you make $70,000 a year?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, that's, that's, no, I make around $105,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you been out of school?

[Caller or Guest]

I graduated with my master's in 2023 and shortly after is when I moved to LA and got my, my job in Los Angeles.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I mean, you're living in one of the most expensive places in the country, so that there is always going to be a limit because of that. So I, I, if I were in your shoes, yeah. I'd be looking for other places. Now, Fontana that you mentioned, I mean, have you priced it out? What's the difference? What could, where could you, could you get a one bedroom? And what would it cost? Would it get you to the 25% range?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, in, in LA, it's very difficult to find a place to stay.

[Jade Washall]

I'm talking about Fontana, like you said.

[Caller or Guest]

I'll be staying with my parents.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so, Felix, here's the thing. What you want, staying with your parents is not your, is not your play because it doesn't take you to the future you want. You've said no, you said nothing about where you want to be in 20 years, in 10 years, and how staying with your parents is going to get you there. All we're doing, solving the immediate problem by going backwards. So, no, I'm not going to do that. If I'm you, I'm looking for a new job that pays 150,000 in a market where the rent is half of what it is in la and you make a move for your career, you're a single guy and you go out there and make some money and get your cost of housing down. Because if you're working for utility, your bumps, your increases in pay are going to be moderate to poor.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, it's a, it's a government, it's a government, it's a government job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's going to be moderate to poor. The pay is already low and it's not going to get better. You're going to get cost of living bumps and nothing else. And so as an engineer, you can go out there and make twice what you're making now in an area that costs half what it costs to live in la. And that puts you in a position to build a life, a financial life, including homeownership. But the ratio you're giving me right now, going back to your parents doesn't solve it. That's regressing. Instead of saying, how can I move forward? So I'm going to be figuring out a way to move forward. Either a different kind of engineer application for my master's in engineering in Los Angeles, where I make a lot more, or a different city or both.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Jade Washall, rank Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Thanks for being with us, America. Luke is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Luke. Welcome to the show.

[Caller or Guest]

Hello.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi.

[Caller or Guest]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

So kind of use a unique situation here, 22 years old, household income of 90,000. We inherited six acres of land and decided to build a house on it. We don't have any debt. We have not taken any loans on the house. I built it so far where you got the roof walls and siding and almost done with utilities. But our goal is that I pay for all the bills and then my wife, she pays for all the materials for the house. My question is, should I take what's of my income after the bills and throw it towards the house or put it towards retirement?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you're trying to build a house out of your pocket and so far you have. But you and your wife have separate finances.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, we've worked together for finances, but not really.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've delegated part of it to her and part of it to you. You don't have one pile, so you need one pile of money. Her money. Your money is our money. One big pile out of that pile. What is our first goal? I would assume it's to finish the house, isn't it?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what does it take to finish the house, money wise? How much money?

[Caller or Guest]

Probably about 10 grand left. We got drywall, insulation and paint.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how long if you pile all your money, you and your wife, our money in one pile, how long does it take you to come up with 10 grand?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, probably a month or two.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, so let's finish the house and then you need to make sure you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and then take 15% of your household income, our income, and start that towards retirement. That's baby step four. But you're gonna be living in a paid for house. That's nice.

[Jade Washall]

That's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got this acreage and you built the house. She got a lot of sweat in it. And you're gonna have a bunch of equity, right?

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's this finished product gonna be worth? Acreage and house total?

[Caller or Guest]

We're hoping for 250.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Very cool. And you said you're 26?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm 22.

[Dave Ramsey]

22. Wow. Okay. Wow. And your household income, if we put both of your money in one pile, is how much a year?

[Caller or Guest]

90,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much?

[Caller or Guest]

90,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

90,000. That's the two of you combined. Okay, good.

[Caller or Guest]

I make 62, she makes 28.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

Perfect. Yeah. So let's take 15% of 90,000. After we get the emergency fund in place and you're sitting on $250,000 house, you're going to be millionaires before you're 30.

[Jade Washall]

Whoo. That's exciting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Enough fun.

[Jade Washall]

I hope they take your advice and put their money in one pile.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's the thing. Yeah. So there's. Yeah, there's just so much data that says when you do that, that your higher probability of winning at marriage, winning at relationship, winning at everything. And let's circle back and say this. Nothing to do with Luke's call, but just this, because we get so much bull crap on social media about telling people to put their money together. You should be independent. No, you shouldn't be independent if you're married. That's a dumb butt idea. This is how your marriage doesn't work because you're so strung out on you that you're worthless as a spouse. So that's the problem. So, no, you don't need to be independent. You need to be one. The preacher said, and now you are one. One, Uno, unity, all in one. And so if we know, and we do know that the data tells us in America today, the number one cause of divorce is money fights and money problems. The number one solution to that is learning to dream together and put our money together and handle our problems and our challenges and our opportunities and our dreams together. That is the solution where you don't have money problems cause divorce. If we have the solution to the number one cause of Divorce. Why are you arguing with us? That's just dumb. Because people out there are dumb and we will always have a show for that reason. So there it is. Not all people out there are dumb, but enough of them are dumb. But we will always have this show.

[Jade Washall]

Are they dumb, Dave, or do they do dumb things?

[Dave Ramsey]

They're ignorant. Ignorant different than dumb.

[Jade Washall]

That's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ignorant is. I don't know how ignorance. And there's things I'm ignorant of, by the way.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know how I used to know. When I was a young redneck, I used to know how to work on a car. But now a car looks like a spaceship when I open the hood. And so I can't even. I don't know if I could jump the thing and get a jumper cable on it nowadays without blowing it up. So, you know, so. But the dad is here. I don't know how to work on that car. It doesn't mean I'm dumb. It means I'm irritating, ignorant. I don't know how to do that. But then don't argue with experts when you're ignorant because it makes you look dumb.

[Jade Washall]

I'll take that, dude. I'll take that. Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

And Luke was doing none of that. Luke's a sharp young guy at 22, man. He's got it going on, doesn't he?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. Oh, most definitely. I don't even. I was nowhere near that. So.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't even want to talk about it. Jason was in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Jason. How are you? Hey, guys.

[Caller or Guest]

How are y'?

All?

Can you all hear me okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, I just got a quick question for you. I'll give you a quick, quick rundown on my situation. I'm trying to decide if I should sell my house. I live about an hour outside of the Carolina metros right now. I'm planning to make a move this summer. I'm self employed. I sell real estate. And so on my new market, I'm gonna have to kind of start from the ground up. I'm near the end of baby step two. If this move wasn't happening, I'd be done probably by June or July, maybe August. The flip side. So the question is basically, where are.

[Dave Ramsey]

You gonna live when you move?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm gonna rent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and so your question is whether to keep your house or not?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just to sell.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I bought.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need to be a renter and be a landlord. That's bass ackwards.

[Jade Washall]

That was risky, Dave. That Was very risky.

[Caller or Guest]

That's what I needed to know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, really think about it. That's backwards. You don't want to do that. So. No, you need to get. You're in the real estate business. You're going to get plenty of opportunities to own a property and live in a house that you pay cash for or buy it and then get it paid off as quick as you can. Hanging onto this boat anchor that represents your former life out in the burbs. When you're moving into the metal metro and having to deal with that while you're trying to learn to sell real estate and trying to get your business moving.

[Jade Washall]

Nah.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, that's where my mind was and I thought that was right. I just wanted to make sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're right on track, man. You're right on track. So there you go. Here's the thing. It's interesting. Real estate is such an emotional topic because it has these two strange elements to it. Strange element number one is it is an excellent way to build wealth when you do it right as a part of your long term plan.

[Jade Washall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That then gets confused with it's always smart no matter what.

[Jade Washall]

That's a good point, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's not sometimes real estate. Doing a real estate deal in the wrong situation in your life could be not, you know, in Jason's, it's just, it's just a bad idea. But in other people's, it's even way over into the stupid zone.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, for sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so real estate is. It's weird. It is. Because it's a blessing when you do it right. That gives everybody permission to do it even wrong and it becomes a curse.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. And I think also the other thing that I think we're fighting now is so many people had properties that they locked in at a better interest rate. And so then when life moves them, they feel like, yeah, it's a good deal, maybe I shouldn't get rid of it. Even though I'm moving, I should keep it. It's like this weird attachment to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like, because real estate is good, I can't. Everything I do with it is going to be smart.

[Jade Washall]

Right. It just falls in line and it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, no, it's not going to be smart. You know, it's not smart. The only way that you know, no, there's a good time to cut real estate loose. There's a good time for it to not be there. And buying, buying real estate you can't afford, buying a house you can't afford. We had that earlier in the hour.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we got to sell the house as mom wants to come home and not be a teacher and be a full time moment. That's cool. But we got to sell the house. We bought a house we can't afford. So it's not a blessing anymore.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a curse.

[Caller or Guest]

It's a problem.

[Jade Washall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So doing it wrong or keeping it wrong or. Because real estate's good. It's not always good. And it's not that real estate is actually. Real estate is always good. It's the life situation you're in doesn't match up with owning real estate right then. And so it's not always good to keep your old house and rent it. Matter of fact, it's seldom. It's.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very seldom. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. In the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, Jade Washaw Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Alyssa is with us in Chicago. Hi, Alyssa. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

My question is, how much is too much to spend on a wedding?

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's cool. How much are you thinking about spending?

[Caller or Guest]

60,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ooh, nice wedding. Good. Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Do you have 60,000?

[Caller or Guest]

So we're actively saving to get to. We have about half right now. So by next September, when the wedding would be, we would have that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So mom and dad aren't chipping in. That's you and him paying for it.

[Caller or Guest]

We are going with the intention that we're paying for it. They've briefly mentioned that they might contribute, but no hard numbers have been given or anything like that.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. So you're assuming it's all on you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do you make?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I make 90 before.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's he making?

[Caller or Guest]

190.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Jade Washall]

Do you guys have any debt?

[Caller or Guest]

No debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. It's not too much.

[Caller or Guest]

It's not too much. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not if you pay cash.

[Jade Washall]

That's exciting.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You want to know how I did that?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's fun. Okay. Average household income in America right Now is about $75,000. The average wedding in America is about $36,000. It's about half of the average income. So if you spend more than half your annual income on your wedding, and if you're paying for all of it, which it sounds like you are, okay then you're spending too much on a wedding because you're more than half the average. Now here's the thing. Keep in mind Average kind of sucks in America. We don't necessarily want to be average, but. But you're below 50% of your. Your way below 50% of your $270,000 income. And so you're. You're. You're. As. On a ratio basis, you are half of the national average, which is half. Weird way to say that, but yeah. So, I mean, the national average would put. If you. If you spent 50% of your all's income, that'd be 135.

[Jade Washall]

So you're well below what the average.

[Dave Ramsey]

Person, and you're about half of that at. And so you're very conservative as a ratio. But now for somebody that makes 100 grand, it sounds like that, you know, Alyssa's lost her mind. You know, but that's what people say that don't have any money, and you've got some money. So.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, when you have more money, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can spend more of it without it being a problem.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Caller or Guest]

And if that doesn't include the honeymoon, and we added, I don't know, 10.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or 15 on top of that, honeymoon's a different. Different story.

[Jade Washall]

I think that'd be fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the engagement rings, Another story. Okay.

[Jade Washall]

But, yeah, that's a good differential, though. When we're talking about. Talking about the wedding, there are those three components. There's the rings, then there's the actual party, and then there's your honeymoon.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do y' all do for a living?

[Caller or Guest]

I do medical sales, and he does product management.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Okay, well, he's gonna really like this last suggestion. We've done three weddings at the Ramsey's. I've got three kids that are all married and been married many, many years. Okay. And Ramsey's, we like a big party. We like to celebrate stuff like that. And so we threw major parties on each of these weddings. It was a lot of fun, but we learned, and. And we did it from the first one. We introduced this idea that for your fiance will love me. Your wedding is a project. So let's lay out a budget in detail. If we're going to spend 60, how much of that's the dress? How much of that's the reception? How much of that's the videographer? How much of that's the preacher? How much is the venue? And you lay out a budget, and then, guess what? You stick to the budget.

[Jade Washall]

And that would be my word of wise for you, Alyssa, because when you hear what Dave said earlier. Yeah. Which is, technically, you could be spending more if you were being, quote, average. So for you, the hard Part is going to say, even though we could spend more, we're going to stick to what we said in the beginning of 60,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I would pretend like that, that you work for someone and your job was to manage a sixty thousand dollar budget and bring the event in on budget, on schedule. Because your manager project, it's an event project. I mean, we manage events here. It's what it is. And so this, you get fired if.

[Jade Washall]

You went over someone else's budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If you, if you work for somebody, you get fired if you screwed it up. Right. So just treat it like it's serious business. And, and I know that doesn't sound very romantic, but people use romance as a way to do a lot of stupid butt stuff. So. No, we're not doing that. So. No, just lay it out. Exactly. And you say this is. And you can pull up some percentages, there's some good guidelines online for how much to spend on the dress. I will go ahead and tell you. If you're going to have a nice reception to have the big party, it's going to be your biggest line item by far. Like how many people you think? I mean, 60,000. You're thinking about inviting a decent number of people, aren't you?

[Caller or Guest]

It's not huge. So we've already booked the venue and we're going through that process. But I'm more of the saver and he's more of the spender. And so thinking of kind of the rough estimate that we put together with all the, you know, videographer, photographer and all that, it, it just sounds like a lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I, yeah, I, I would. But here's the thing. You'll get, you know what I say, you know what I mean when I say scope, Creep.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. This project, this thing will creep up and the 60 will turn into 80 if you do not. If you do not line item this, no rough estimates is freaking what we're going to do. And then when you're meeting with the caterer and they go, well, we can add devil egg. No, no, that's all we got. This is what we're doing. And well, you know, we could spend, you know, freaking $85,000 on flowers. Who's getting married here? Princess Di? I mean, seriously. So, you know, we're gonna go in the field, pick some wildflowers so that we stay on budget. Rachel actually did that one.

[Jade Washall]

Well, if nothing else, she was over.

[Dave Ramsey]

Budget on other stuff and the only way she could get it back in budget was to get the flowers down.

[Jade Washall]

If Nothing else planned for 54. So at least you've got 10% set aside just as contingency. Oh, that's what I'd do.

[Dave Ramsey]

A little slush fund in the library just in case. Yeah, a little just in case fun. I'd have something in there for that. I don't know if I get away with that, but. Wow. Wow. Yeah, that's exactly how I would do it. And listen, I think you're approaching it very wisely. You're not counting on the people who have been vague about their possible input. That way you're not under their control. Matter of fact, whatever they come forth with, I'd probably just use that for the honeymoon. And I just lock this baby down on 60 and just go, we're doing it. And you and the fiance sit down, agree to that. Go. This is a project like you manage at work.

[Caller or Guest]

Work.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're going to manage this. We're going to come in on budget. We're going to get the details out because there's always something that you can go higher. You can always go one bigger one better on everything.

[Jade Washall]

You get the extra large shrimp instead of the large shrimp.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was the thing on Father of the bride? Cheaper chicken.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cheaper chicken. Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

You get ice sculptures.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's it. And so, yeah, you can do it. And you can do that on a ten thousand dollar budget. You can do it on a sixty thousand dollars budget. You can do it on whatever. You just manage the budget.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is what we're doing. And so it's just, we're going to get super creative and we're going to do this for 7,800 bucks. We had a lady here on the team that got married and had a really nice little wedding for 7,000 bucks and she just slammed. You know, they were trying to get out of debt and that's the most they weren't going to spend. And it was, it was really very nice.

[Jade Washall]

Can I tell you the okay Sam and I paid for our wedding pocket? Oh, it was like 10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

It was a little bit more. But I. My biggest regret to this day, and it was in the name of doing it debt free. We didn't have an open bar. No open bar.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's your, that's your regret that you didn't booze up everybody else?

[Jade Washall]

I mean, we were on a yacht. We were. It just made sense. You should have had. There should have been some drinks on board.

[Dave Ramsey]

You didn't have a. Oh, there was no open bar. There was no bar.

[Jade Washall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. What? Not they couldn't even pay. No open bar would be like you paid.

[Jade Washall]

No. Well, I felt it was tacky to have people pay. So there just was no bar?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just no. Oh, well, okay, I'll go with that. Okay.

[Jade Washall]

But listen, it was a mistake.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay. You know what? They don't remember it. You're the only one that don't.

[Jade Washall]

I guess so. I don't know about that.

[Dave Ramsey]

But Sam doesn't even remember it. When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start answer some questions and we'll show you what what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money. Starting Today, go with ramseysolutions.com start. Jade Washall Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Thank you, thank you for joining us America. I am Dave Ramsey. Your host. Katrina is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi Katrina, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I am fantastic. Thank you so much for asking. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

All right. So I am going through a divorce and it's really hurting me financially. So I'm wondering if I should take money out of my business account that I'm actually trying to sell because of the divorce and use some of that money to buy things for my primary job.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your primary job?

[Caller or Guest]

I am a school teacher and tomorrow I go back to school and the kids come back next Tuesday. But I need to buy some supplies for the students to come back to school.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, they don't furnish you supplies for the classroom like they should?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, they give me $5.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which would make you every school teacher in America.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, yeah, thank you. They give me $5 as students, but I've already spent that. I bought glue sticks and colored pencils and pencil pouches for the students and.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what are you talking about spending?

[Caller or Guest]

I need paper, hand sanitizers, folders and journals.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you talking about spending?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm thinking I need about $200.

[Jade Washall]

What type of business do you have? What's the nature of it?

[Caller or Guest]

So, so in. Yeah, in the evenings I run an escape room but I have to sell it according to the divorce decree. I have to sell it so I could pay back some of the equity that I owe to my soon to be ex husband.

[Jade Washall]

Do you take a. You take you Take a payroll from the business.

[Caller or Guest]

I don't. It doesn't make enough money, so I just. I run it and then, like, it pays for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If $200 changes your life, you have other problems.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, right now, I mean, I just. I'm barely finished. Baby step number one, I've been using your everydollar app.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you have to choose between you eating and buying your children hand sanitizer, you eat.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, I get that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so if you're down to nothing, if you have no money and $200 is a huge amount to you, where you get it from doesn't matter. It's where you spend it that matters. You don't have the option to be this generous to these students. Contact a local church and ask them to help you. If they've got some journals laying around and maybe they've got some hand sanitizer they can give you from the children's ministry and help you fund this, help you get the thing set up without you spending the $200 at Target. And, you know, let's go that route because it sounds like this $200 is a lot of money to you.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you've got. You need to work on the other side of that. And that's the overall income. I think I'm tutoring instead of running a game room.

[Jade Washall]

Escape room.

[Sponsor or Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by. Why refi? If private student loan debt is taking away your peace of mind and you don't see any way out you need, why refi? That's why. The letter R, E, F, Y. They refinance defaulted private student loans. If you have one, they'll refinance it for you. Nobody else will touch it. And they give you a low fixed rate that is built for you on a term that makes it work for you so you can get your loan paid off and get it current so it's not trashing you every month. Go to yrefi refi.com RamseyToday. That's the letter Y R, E F Y.com/. Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Jade Washall]

All right. Today's question comes from Nora in Pennsylvania. She says, I've been married for almost 30 years, and my husband and I have adult children. My husband runs his mother's family business. He will inherit the business when she passes, but he says that the business is not going to be mine if anything happens to him. He says his will is going to state that our children will get the business and that he will not be providing for Me? Ooh. I've explained to him how upsetting this is and that I shouldn't have to go to my children for help when it is his responsibility to care for me. I live on a fixed income. My adult life as a stay at home mom. What can I do to protect myself legally?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. You can't. So you have a. You have a marriage problem. My goodness. You don't have a legal problem. You're married to a jerk. That's a problem.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. I thought this question was going in one direction, and then it turned and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Went off into the ditch.

[Jade Washall]

It sure did.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, honey, you need to go see a marriage counselor, and he's not going to go with you because he's right about everything. He doesn't need any help if you ask him. And of course, everybody else listening to this knows he's the one needs the help. But you need to go to the marriage counselor, and the marriage counselor is going to explain to you that your marriage is over if you don't get some serious work done on it. That rattling you're hearing under the hood means the engine's about to blow, kiddo. And this does not describe a loving home where the husband is gentle, kind, and serves his wife. I didn't hear anything like that in here.

[Jade Washall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

So sad. Nora, I'm sorry. But. Yeah, you need to go see a marriage counselor today. Tell him that he ought to go with you, but he won't. And then the marriage counselor will give you words to speak to him that lead to either him coming to the table or the end of your marriage. You can't go forward with this. And after 30 years, he still chooses his mommy. After 30 years, he's still a mama's boy. Old men that are mama's boy are kind of pitiful.

[Jade Washall]

Ah, that's the worst.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mama's boys are pitiful, period, after four years old. But old men, mama's boys, Seriously pitiful. Whew.

[Jade Washall]

And he's gonna be one even after she stone.

[Dave Ramsey]

That means this Guy's in his 50s.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's an old man mama's boy. You can title the thumbnail on YouTube. Old man, old man, mama's boy. There you go.

[Jade Washall]

I thought she was gonna say something. You know, as I was reading it, I thought, okay, this is a. His mom's family business. It's gonna pass to the children. Maybe she didn't want to run the business. You know what I mean? Because there's part of that where it's like, I don't want this responsibility but that took a hard left turn. Oh, gracious.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Mamas, don't let your boys become leave and cleave. Choose carefully, my darling. Choose carefully. Choose a man who loves his mother from a distance. Mom, I love you over there.

[Jade Washall]

Listen, I say that, but when the day comes when my son gets old enough where he has to go over.

[Dave Ramsey]

There, it's gonna be hard. I think it's one of the hardest child developmental things I've ever witnessed. As we raised kids, girls separate from their mom. But boys, when boys stay right there until they separate. When they separate, it's brutal. And it usually comes somewhere around 16 or 17 years old. For people that become men.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

But boys who are mama's boy at 50, they never did cut the cord. And so they're still tugging on her apron strings. Mommy, Mommy, Mommy, I want the business. Mommy, Mommy, Mommy, mommy, would you take care of Mommy, Mommy, I want to make sure you love me. Mommy. Oh, brother, I think I'm gonna puke.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, gosh, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want myself. We do have a manhood crisis in this country, for sure. Wow. I mean, look, this is not masculinity. It's not toxic masculinity.

[Jade Washall]

It's just a child. Yeah. And a controlling child. A very controlling jerk of a child.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Goodness gracious.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here's the thing. Nora's husband, if you happen to end up listening to this, if you're not who she says she you are, you need to understand how screwed up your marriage is that your wife wrote this letter to a nationally syndicated show that has hundreds of millions of people downloaded every month. So if you're not this. And she sent this in, you got stuff going on, dude, so you still deserve bus tracks over your butt. So we threw you right in front of the bus. Still. That's what happened.

[Jade Washall]

Maybe he'll write in a letter next.

[Dave Ramsey]

I hope so. I wish he would just come on the air and let us talk to him. How fun would that be? That would be compelling podcast material. Oh, man.

[Caller or Guest]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ouch.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, that's. This is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's what's interesting. The number one thing that will keep you from building wealth is screwed up relationships.

[Jade Washall]

Bingo. That's so true.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you can't handle screwed up relationships and put reasonable, gentle, kind, strong boundaries in place and keep the screwed up people at a distance and the right people up close and you can't function with other humans, you're going to struggle building wealth, period. This is the Ramsey Show. It's one of the best times of the year. But it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, buy, buy. So you start swiping the credit card and suddenly it's January and you got a mess on your hands. Don't let that happen. Tell your money where to go instead of wondering where it went with our budgeting app. Every Dollar. Every Dollar not only helps you stay on budget and in control of your spending this holiday season, it also helps you find extra margin in your budget. Thousands of dollars of it. And every day we'll coach you to build better money habits and attack your goals faster than ever. So while most people will be starting in January with a taste of regret in their mouth, you'll already be winning. Start everydollar for free by downloading the app today. Buying a house in this weird real estate market is weird. Selling a house in this weird real estate market is weird. If you want to do it right, you really need a pro in your corner. Somebody that does a lot of transactions. Not your Aunt Sally who got her license three weeks ago. Sorry Aunt Sally, you don't qualify to be a Ramsey endorsed local provider. That's Ramsey Trusted. We love you. We hope you do good in the real estate business. But we don't want you to sell a half a million dollar house for somebody we love. And you've never sold a house. You need to be doing 30 to 50 to 100 transactions, 200 transactions a year and then you can become the possible, possibly become Ramsey trusted. So if you want to know who's Ramsey Trusted and is a high octane, high protein producer in your area, you can do that for [e-mail] Agent Teddy is in Traverse City, Michigan. Hi Teddy, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm doing great Dave. What a pleasure to speak to you today.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too man. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I've been in debt most of my whole life between cars and my wife and I bought a house. I am self employed. My wife is retired after 32 years. I make about $70,000 a year in salary. I have $1,400 a month in rental income from a home that we have purchased and paid off. My wife makes about $400 a week in side hustle and she draws $1,500 a month from her 401k. Last year we got a HELOC loan for a home addition. So I still owe about $100,000 on that. I owe $20,000 on the mortgage on the house. We're living In. Now that we put the addition on, as well as $20,000 on a car, we got about $1.1 million in retirement. And of that, 210,000 is liquid investments. So my question is, we've been working the debt snowball, but do I sell some of my investments and pay off this debt and just get it over with?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Caller or Guest]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm 62 and my wife is 65.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. If you take. You said 1.2 and we turn it into 1 and you're 100% debt free, I'll take it.

[Jade Washall]

I mean, you said you had 210,000 that was liquid.

[Caller or Guest]

I do.

[Jade Washall]

You could do it with.

[Caller or Guest]

It's not tied up in retirement. That's liquid.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's no retirement at all. So you're not even gonna have taxes on it?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, maybe. Maybe a little gain on it. It may have been sitting there gaining, but. But it's not. Might have a low capital gain, but. So it's not even going to be a 200 hit. It's be 100, 150 hit. Whatever. But either way, you're 100% debt free now. That only works, Teddy, if you stop borrowing money.

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, yeah, I'm sorry, America. I've been in, you know, borrowed cars, bought to buy cars.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know.

[Caller or Guest]

I'm real frugal. I'm real frugal.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're not. You're 66 with a stupid car payment.

[Caller or Guest]

Isn't that the truth?

[Dave Ramsey]

You're a millionaire with a car payment. Don't do that.

[Caller or Guest]

No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, brother. Hey, seriously, if you go pay all this off and then run up another debt, you're just going to eat your nest egg up.

[Caller or Guest]

I can't wait to come and stand on the stage. You've inspired me.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it, brother. I love it. You're a good man. Congratulations on being a millionaire.

[Jade Washall]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. Very cool. Isn't it funny how hard it is to get the culture out of our veins?

[Jade Washall]

It's very. I mean, it's. It's yapping at us around every corner, you know, everywhere you live.

[Dave Ramsey]

Every corner. That's why when someone's debt free house and everything, we say you're weird.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you're. You are. You're Weird just means unusual. It doesn't mean bad.

[Jade Washall]

Well, the weird. What makes you weird is you've decided to become independent in a culture that teaches you to constantly be dependent. That's what the weird is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Jade Washall]

Let it roll around in the brain for a while.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's strong. That's strong. Well done. All right, let's do it. Charlotte's in Cincinnati. Hey, Charlotte, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey. Good afternoon, Dave and crew. Thank you so much for taking my call. I sure thoroughly enjoyed listening to your program. My question is, my. Just a tiny bit of my backstory is my husband passed away in 2012, and as a result of insurance money coming in, we were able to get debt free, my daughter and I, and we have stayed debt free, thank God, and she just finished her freshman year in college. We have a cafeteria. 529 plan projected.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have a what? 529.

[Caller or Guest]

It's what's called a cafeteria. 529.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, cafeteria. I didn't hear. I didn't hear the word. Okay. Cafeteria. Okay, I got you.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, good. That's a good plan.

[Caller or Guest]

So, yeah, so we've got our college paid for as far as that's concerned, but unfortunately, the way that it's grown, there's a projectory of being like an $80,000 surplus at the. At the end. It's. And I found out that I could only put $35,000 in a Roth IRA in her name.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's true. After she's 30.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm a little bit concerned about, like, can I take any of that overage?

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, so how much is in the 529 total?

[Caller or Guest]

There's probably right now 189,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how much did you put in and how much is growth?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, that's just it. Like, it. I only. I think at the time, I only put in, like, I don't know, 85,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you got 100. You got 100 growth.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And of that, 80 is going to be. If he keeps growing, there's even going to be more. And so you'll have an 80 overage, is that what we're saying?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is she getting any scholarships?

[Caller or Guest]

She is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You know, you can pull that much out. The equivalent of the scholarship can be pulled out each year. No tax.

[Caller or Guest]

Equivalent to the scholarship.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so she gets a $10,000 scholarship. Pull $10,000 out.

[Jade Washall]

That's actually an incentive to get more scholarships.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. Because I guess my tax preparer, he doesn't know about that. Is there any place that you could direct me as to where I could find good, solid information about this kind of stuff?

[Dave Ramsey]

A different tax preparer? Because that's pretty standard information. I'm not even good at taxes, and I know it. So, yeah, you know, if that's. If that's one of our elp. I'm sorry, but if it's not, check one of our endorsed local providers for taxes in your area and get a second opinion on it. But you're allowed to pull the equivalent of scholarships out, athletic, academic, whatever the basis for the scholarship is every year. And there's zero tax on it. So she gets a scholarship, pull that much out. Do you know how much she got.

[Caller or Guest]

In scholarships like last year? I mean, it was, I don't know, it was around 10,000, I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, okay. All right. That's not going to alleviate the problem completely because if it's times four, it's only 40,000. Right. And she's 80 over, so you're gonna have another 40. And I really wouldn't screw around with the Roth IRA at age 30. I just go ahead and cash it out. You don't get. It's not 100% tax. You're just taxed and penalized on that amount of growth only. That's why I was asking you what you had in it. And so the calculation's not as severe as it sounds. So let's say you end up pulling 40,000 bucks out because we just got rid of 40 with the scholarship IDE. You know, you might have $5,000 in taxes.

[Jade Washall]

10. It's 10%? Yeah. Is that the rate?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. On the growth?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

So I could in essence take that money out and use it, say like for home improvements.

[Dave Ramsey]

Use it for anything. If you pay the taxes on it and they'll be the taxes and the penalty. There's a tax and a penalty both, but it's maybe a 10 or 15,000 out of that 40 you're going to lose, but it's not a hundred percent. So they don't take the whole thing. And rather than try to screw around with something for a 22 year old, wait until they're 30 and these idiots in Washington change the law six times between now and then. No, I just cash it out, take my head and go on and go, hey, we paid for college and we had a little leftover good. Life's good.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good question. Thanks for calling. So, you know, that's a very unusual problem.

[Caller or Guest]

Problem?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, it's a good.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think it's a good problem of abundance.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. I mean the only other thing is if they left it, I mean it can pat like her as the beneficiary, she can pass it to her kids when the time, you know, when the time comes. That's way out there.

[Dave Ramsey]

But yeah, now we got 800 grand.

[Jade Washall]

That's true. Yeah. At that point, if you take the penalty, it might hurt a little bit more.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think, I think I'm gonna go ahead and just be done with it and just say, hey, we did a great job. We might have even done too good a job. But just so slightly, just so slightly. You know, when I hit a golf ball a little bit too long, I just say I hit it too. Well, that's all it is. This is the Ramsey Show. Do you want to keep more money in your pocket and not Uncle Sam's? Then listen up. There are tax deductions and credits you could maximize before the end of the year by connecting with an experienced tax professional like a Ramsey trusted tax pro. They know the tax code inside and out so you don't have to and they can help you file when tax season, season rolls around. Get a trusted tax pro by going to ramseysolutions.com taxpro ramseysolutions.com taxpro. Our scripture of the day, Luke 6:38. Give and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over will be poured into your lap. J. Paul Getty says money is like manure. You have to spread it around or it smells. All right, with a little generosity. There we go. Left in one pile. It stinks. Yes, I like that. That's good. Dylan is in Houston, Texas. Hi, Dylan. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, Dave and Jed, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, I've got a question for you all. I've kind of got two options. I'm working baby step number two currently with my wife. We are about 71,000 in debt, 67 of that is student loans and 4,000 on a credit card. Right now we bring in about 6200 and I think it'll take us, you know, roughly five years to get out of that debt. So that's kind of what I'm going to label as option one. Option two is my wife can have the opportunity to travel with her job and we would be able to kind of sell our house, pay all that debt off instantly and then travel around for a couple more years while we save up for another down payment and, and find the place that we want to stay for a while. And that option I wouldn't work. I would raise my 5 year old and my 2 year old maybe finding a job on the road if I got time. But what kind of work? I wanted to get Yalls opinion what.

[Jade Washall]

Kind of work Is it nursing?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. What kind of. It's echocardiac sonography. So ultrasound of the heart, but very similar to like a travel nurse.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so give me a better picture of that. So is that you just, you live somewhere for six months and then you move on. What does that look like?

[Caller or Guest]

Three month contracts. Roughly about 2,500 a week. But they range depending. But average would be about 2,500 a week.

[Jade Washall]

And how old are the kids?

[Dave Ramsey]

Three and five.

[Caller or Guest]

Five year old and yeah, five and two.

[Jade Washall]

But yeah, five and two. Okay, interesting.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do?

[Caller or Guest]

I work for the state.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing what?

[Caller or Guest]

Fisheries biology.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller or Guest]

I make 69,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she make now?

[Caller or Guest]

She's part time, so she stays at home with the kids two times. So it's, it ranges, but I think about 30,000 a year.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So she could work full time and make 70.

[Caller or Guest]

She could.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you're all's concern is that one parent is with the kids. It sounds like.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, we like that. And I'm okay staying in bed a little longer. I know that's not the Ramsay way, but I'm okay with it. So she can spend some time with the kids. It's really important to her.

[Jade Washall]

If you were leaning towards one, what would you lean towards? Because when I look at it, when I look at what you're showing me, it really feels more like a values conversation between you guys. Some couples are, they want the adventure and they would say, oh, this is a great opportunity. Let's go out, go travel. The kids will learn on the road, you know, that kind of thing. Whereas other families like the feeling of stability and being in one place. So do you see what I'm saying? Where do you fall on that line?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, for me, option two. And I think that's both of us. But what our concern is, y' all just went through the housing market, right? I mean, we're in a really good spot. We bought in 2019. We have a low interest rate. We're just not a huge fan of our area. We both love our jobs, we just want a different area.

[Jade Washall]

So then, then you've whittled this down to it all being about interest rate and that shows me interest rate or house price.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, house prices are going to escalate during the three or four years he does this.

[Jade Washall]

That's true. But they will also have paid off debt, so you'll be saving more. So I think you can pace with that.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes. And putting into retirement. Because right now, baby step number two, we're not into retirement. So this is, should essentially jump us into three.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I, I feel like what you're leaning towards is option two, and I don't have a problem with that as long as you guys don't have a problem with it.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

And then I, I, I'd set clear limits. How long do we think we want to do this and then play out the whole thing? Until the end. What is, what does the whole thing look like? We do this for three years. At the end of it, we've had X amount of dollars saved and then we can go and we think we can buy this amount of house in cash, play the whole plan out, and then ask yourself, what happens if this goes well? What happens if this goes bad? And really try to fill in all those variables as best as possible on paper. Not just mentally, not talking about it over dinner, but write it down so you can see, do we like this?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And give yourself permission to pull the plug in the middle of it.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's nothing holding you to this. Okay. Three years, we're gonna do five cities. Okay, that's the plan. But after three cities you go, this isn't fun.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You stop and stop. You know, you don't have to play all the way out. It's not a long term play. I would not call it a decade. No.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, A decade of this feels, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Know, I think I would put a limit on, personally I'd put a limit on it from an economic standpoint of five years. Yeah. Because there's only so much adventure you can stand too. So. But you know, I personally wouldn't do that, but I mean, I wouldn't do anything longer than five years. I think you're going to end up in other kinds of issues at that point. You got a 10 year old and an 8 year old too.

[Jade Washall]

But the point of playing that out is to say what is it that you're trying to accomplish exactly with this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Money and with this, what's in game? And is it worth it? And is the process we're going through going to be worth, is the juice going to be worth a squeeze?

[Jade Washall]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ramon is in San Diego. Hi Ramon, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey. Hello, Dave. Thank you for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

I mean, I don't know where to start. So I'm just gonna put it this way. I'm like $73,000 in debt and I don't really know where to start.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

I mean, I got myself in this position. I'm done beating myself down to it. And I mean, here we are now.

[Jade Washall]

What kind of debt is it?

[Caller or Guest]

I mean, it's a combination of a lot of things. It's credit cards, a personal loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Give us a breakdown how much on credit cards.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, credit cards is about 33,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How much on the car?

[Caller or Guest]

On the car, 16,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What else?

[Jade Washall]

Personal loan.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, personal loan is 6,000 and student debt is about 12,000.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, the car, what's it worth if you sold it? Just curious.

[Caller or Guest]

Last time I checked it was like $24,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm currently making $3,000 a month.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so I just want to clarify the car. You said you owe 16,000 and I said if you sold it, you said you'd get 24,000. Is that right?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, yeah, last time I checked, like, like a couple months ago.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, well that's good for you.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so what if, what if step one was we sold this car to get out of the note or you wanted to get out of the note and then you bought something in cash to free up some money. What about that?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, yeah, that's something I discussed with my wife too. And we're kind of on board too.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your wife?

[Caller or Guest]

Make a look at it. My wife stay at home.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you make $3,000 a month in San Diego?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Jade Washall]

That don't work. What's keeping you in San Diego?

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do?

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, so just a little background in the way the situation ended up like this. So I lost my full time job like six months ago. I ended up being unemployed for like four or five months and I finally landed this part time job from Costco, pushing cards in the meantime. And now I have a job, professional job again, thank God, lined up in Houston, Texas. So it's going to start next month.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, that's a big part of this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that kind of matters in the discussion. So how much are you going to make there?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, so the first few months is going to be like 57,000 a year plus a 500 different month. And after that I think it's going to be they're going to bump me up to like 62 or $63,000. Good salary plus commissions is a sales position.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesome.

[Jade Washall]

Excellent. Okay, so the, the biggest thing to worry about now is saving up for this move because this move is coming, it's going to be expensive. I still think you need to get rid of this car because it's going to free up extra money. Are they giving you a moving stipend?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, yeah, I believe they're going to send like 1500 before taxes.

[Jade Washall]

1500. Okay. That's not a whole lot. So I want your. Your homework here is to not make this worse by going into debt on a move. So you need to save up for the move and you need to do detailed research on what this is going to cost you because a cross country move is expensive.

[Dave Ramsey]

When do you move?

[Caller or Guest]

They want me to be there by January 2nd.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, you need to be delivering pizzas and Ubers and whatever else you can, going crazy between now and Christmas, throwing boxes for FedEx or UPS, whatever you got to do. I want you working 60, 80 hours a week to pay for the move between now and Christmas. Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, no, yeah, I'm actually looking for a second and a third job at the moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I wouldn't look for one. I'd go get one today. They're everywhere. It's Christmas, dude. I mean, Target's paying 20 bucks an hour. Get your butt over there. So load up on that and then list your debts, smallest to largest. And we're gonna pay for you to go through Financial Peace University, our class, to show you how to do all this stuff, because we're running out of time and we didn't get to give you a great answer. So you hang on. Christian will pick up and take care of your brother. You're going to be great. You're going to do good. I can tell. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Caller or Guest]

Sam.