Money Chaos Doesn’t Have to Be Forever

Summary

The Ramsey Show: "Money Chaos Doesn’t Have to Be Forever"

Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: Ken Coleman

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Overview

In this episode, Dave Ramsey and co-host Ken Coleman take calls from listeners facing financial chaos, providing actionable, no-nonsense advice on how to correct past money mistakes and regain control. The show’s main theme is that no matter how deep in money trouble you are, financial peace is possible with discipline, self-reflection, and a plan.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Handling Business Debt and Bad Investments (Daniel in California)

[00:39-09:01]

• Situation: Daniel, a 23-year-old finance brokerage owner, is grappling with fallout from unreliable investors, $80k in personal credit card debt, and pressure from defaulted investors seeking repayment.
• Main Advice:
  • Stand firm on contract terms; don’t be intimidated by investors' perceived influence.
  • “You still have these guys on a pedestal where they do not belong. You think they have more power than they actually have.” — Dave Ramsey [06:42]
  • Suggests Daniel pay back only what is fair (the $300k they actually invested) through a percentage of profits, with possible legal review to see if default nullifies their equity.
• Notable Moment:
  • Dave’s “nut and honey” clause reference, highlighting that defaulting investors often forfeit everything.

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2. Recovering from Irresponsible Financial Behavior (Brian in New York)

[10:49-17:34]

• Situation: Brian, 29, with $55k in student loans and $35k in credit card debt from years of partying and poor habits, just started a new $80k job.
• Main Advice:
  • Settle old credit card debt for pennies on the dollar, then attack student loans.
  • Save up settlement amounts before negotiating.
  • Emphasize written, disciplined budgeting and behavioral change.
  • “You’ve correctly identified what caused the problem. Now you’ve got a second chance at being an adult making 80 grand and now you gotta be an adult.” — Dave Ramsey [14:20]
• Emotional Insight:
  • Ken draws out Brian’s self-esteem issues and how belief in oneself impacts financial habits.
  • “You didn’t think you were good enough to pull off this money value stuff... you just had a self-esteem issue.” — Ken Coleman [17:03]

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3. Keeping Promises versus Family Estrangement (Hattie in Indianapolis)

[17:49-20:26]

• Situation: Hattie wonders if she should honor a promise to pay her estranged son’s $30k student loan now that she has inherited money.
• Main Advice:
  • Keep the promise for personal integrity, not with expectations of repairing the relationship.
  • “It’s about you. You’re keeping a promise you made. Has nothing to do with anybody else. This is you being you because that’s who you are.” — Dave Ramsey [18:36]
• Emotional Wisdom:
  • Encourages release of outcomes: “I would have zero expectations that this fixes the estrangement. It’s just you keeping your word.” [18:46]

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4. Small Business and Personal Budget Blending (Erin in Pittsburgh)

[22:54-28:09]

• Situation: Erin, a realtor with fluctuating income, struggles with mixing business and household budgets.
• Main Advice:
  • Separate business and personal finances; use business accounting software for the former.
  • Run all business income and expenses through a dedicated account.
  • Set aside 25% of business draws for taxes.
• Time Management Insight:
  • Ken encourages Erin to move out of low-ROI side hustles (Uber) and focus on growing real estate business.
  • “That time spent there could be spent in other ways, and I want to see you get out of that. I'm not sure that's the best ROI on your time...” — Ken Coleman [27:06]

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5. Preparing for Post-Divorce Financial Freedom (Shane in Texas)

[28:26-31:38]

• Situation: Shane, post-divorce, is selling his home and wants to best position himself for future homeownership.
• Main Advice:
  • Use sale proceeds to clear all debts (credit cards, car, student loan).
  • Get aggressive—no reason to drag out student loan payoff.
  • “Roll up your sleeves and get after it. It’s time... It's a new phase of life, a new chapter.” — Dave Ramsey [30:56]

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6. Deciding on Home Renovation vs. Moving (Charisse in Indianapolis)

[33:09-40:10]

• Situation: Charisse wants to do a $150k home addition, but worries about overbuilding for her neighborhood.
• Main Advice:
  • Warns against over-improving a home beyond neighborhood comps.
  • Suggests exploring moving to a more suitable property before renovating.
  • “You’re gonna have a hard time getting good appreciation out of it... I can't recommend that to you. It's going to interfere with your business, your marriage... you’re going to have an unusual floor plan on a property that you've overbuilt the neighborhood on.” — Dave Ramsey [36:44]

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7. Career Change and Family Dynamics (John in Wisconsin)

[55:15-63:36]

• Situation: John is burnt out working two jobs (day job + admin for wife’s law office) and is debating quitting his job to focus on the family business and side hustles.
• Main Advice:
  • It’s time to let go of unsustainable workloads and focus on maximizing family business value.
  • Overcome guilt about “not working as hard” when shifting roles in a high-earning household.
  • “If you don’t have a shortage of money, working 100 hours a week doesn't prove anything.” — Dave Ramsey [59:44]
• Emotional Insight:
  • Ken notes identity issues in men leaving conventional work for supporting spouse’s business.
  • “You’ve got to change your focus…it needs to be: ‘I’m actually going to cut back on this other gig to immeasurably improve our life...a massive contribution.” — Ken Coleman [62:12]

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8. Practical Family Boundaries and Money (Hannah in Missouri)

[68:19-74:00]

• Situation: Newlywed Hannah wants her husband to become financially independent from his generous parents.
• Main Advice:
  • Distinguish between one-time gifts and ongoing support (which undermines dignity).
  • Communicate clearly about the importance of independence and setting boundaries.
  • “You’re not describing bad people. You’re describing sweet people, but they are violating boundaries, and you guys are not able to have the dignity of a standalone house. And that, you’re missing that dignity.” — Dave Ramsey [71:44]
• Advice to Blended-Family Couples:
  • Treat family financial help as holiday/special occasion gifts, not a pattern.

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9. Co-Signing Messes: When Parents Can’t Fix It (Lynn in Ohio)

[82:00-84:07]

• Situation: Lynn's son is still on the hook for a car loan he co-signed with an ex-girlfriend.
• Main Advice:
  • The parent should step aside; the son must handle consequences.
  • “Mama, you gotta stay out of this. This is not your play. Boychild done made this bed. He gets to walk in it.” — Dave Ramsey [83:29]

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10. Whole Life Insurance—When to Drop It (Mary in Colorado)

[96:00-101:53]

• Situation: Mary pays $792/month for a whole life policy she no longer needs, with significant family wealth now amassed.
• Main Advice:
  • Cancel unneeded insurance and redirect funds into investments.
  • “The purpose of life insurance is to cover your family while you can’t... Fast forward 20 years... your need for life insurance has gone away because you got out of debt and built wealth.” — Dave Ramsey [101:44]

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Additional Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Default means you out, baby. That’s what it means.” — Dave Ramsey [08:03]
• “Personal finance is 80% behavior. Behavior comes from you.” — Dave Ramsey [14:59]
• “Don’t do any of this based on, ooh, ooh, ooh. These guys are a big deal. These guys aren’t a big deal. They’re a couple of crooks didn’t follow through on their deal." — Dave Ramsey [07:01]
• “If you chase two rabbits, you lose them both.” — Ken Coleman [63:00]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:39-09:01 — Daniel: Business betrayal and debt
• 10:49-17:34 — Brian: Party debt and new beginnings
• 17:49-20:26 — Hattie: Estranged son’s student loans
• 22:54-28:09 — Erin: Realtor, budgeting and gig economy
• 28:26-31:38 — Shane: Divorce, home sale, debt
• 33:09-40:10 — Charisse: Home renovation vs. moving
• 55:15-63:36 — John: Leaving the traditional job
• 68:19-74:00 — Hannah: Family financial independence
• 82:00-84:07 — Lynn: Co-signing regret
• 96:00-101:53 — Mary: Whole life insurance woes

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Tone and Style

• Straightforward, Tough Love: Dave and Ken speak blunt truths but blend them with encouragement and empathy.
• Light Humor: Plenty of jokes and camaraderie, especially about in-law issues and long-held money myths.
• Empowering: The hosts insist callers own their choices and take practical steps to change their trajectories, always reinforcing hope.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode is a crash course in how to confront—and conquer—financial chaos, whether it’s caused by bad deals, habits, generosity, or family messes. The solutions are simple, but not always easy: face reality, make a plan, act with integrity, and let go of excuses. Personal responsibility is the thread through every call, and hope is the ultimate takeaway.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one best selling author and host of the front row seat, a big hit on Ramsey networks. He's my co host today. Number 888-882-55-5225. Daniel is in California. Hi Daniel, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Thank God. First, I just want to say I'm a big fan. I'm young, but I first heard about you in, in high school.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

I just wanted to say that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you.

[Caller]

So I'm 23 years old. I started a finance brokerage about three years ago with some outside investors. Initially they promised about a million to 2 million of investment for half the company. And then basically right as we signed like a major office lease, they had some financial troubles pulled out, leaving me with all the overhead. At that time, I decided to just try and pick up the business myself. At one point we were doing about like 200,000 gross a month. Now it's closer to like 100 to 120. After expenses, it's probably around 40 to 50. And then during that rebuilding process, I racked up about like maybe 80,000 in credit card debt. Now the investors want their money back. They originally demanded double. I negotiated it down to just the principal. The challenges, given their connections and influence, I can't really just like refuse to pay them even though it was an investment. So I'm trying to figure out, you know, the best way to pay them off the credit card debt while still being able to do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your business do?

[Caller]

We, we're like a brokerage. We assist small and medium sized businesses to obtain financing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're brokering business loans, correct?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And you did all this by yourself at 23 years old?

[Caller]

At the time I was 22, but yeah, now I'm 23.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the is the investment. These were venture capitalists that were putting money in for a piece of the ownership, correct?

[Caller]

Correct, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they invested their money in. And is there any documentation on how that investment was to be governed, when it was to be repaid or anything like that?

[Caller]

Yeah. So they were, they basically pledged about a million.

[Dave Ramsey]

I heard that. Then they didn't do it. They didn't do what they said they were going to do. But what's your documentation say on the deal? Surely you didn't do this freaking deal on a handshake.

[Caller]

Correct? Yeah. The contract said that they were supposed to contribute until it's profitable, and that was kind of their role. So technically, according to the contract, they didn't hold up to their part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. And the contract said they were going to get their money back. How?

[Caller]

It would just been through equity.

[Dave Ramsey]

But they were going. They were going to be an owner, a percentage owner of the business, Correct?

[Caller]

Correct. Yeah. So eventually, when the business were to become profitable, they would get half of the profits.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm. Okay. Well, number one, I don't buy that anyone has the influence to put you out of business. I think that's absolute bullcrap. So I really don't care what they think. They broke their word. They violated the contract. They're in default on the deal. Okay. From an ethics standpoint. And until they're profitable, they don't get anything. But they were supposed to put in a million dollars to get half. They never played through. They only put in 300,000. And so what does the contract say about parties not following through and being in default?

[Caller]

So what's kind of weird about the situation is given who they are and they're involved in the community I'm in, and they were put together by, like, somebody we personally knew. It just was going to be a really big mess if I were to try and basically say you defaulted. You know, you don't deserve that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what? You're so intimidated by something that just does not exist. I don't believe what you believe. Yeah, I'm calling bs. You've got these guys made out to be some big deal, and they can't even come up with the money they're supposed to come up with. So I don't know how they're a big deal.

[Caller]

So the thing is, now that they're apparently doing better, that's kind of like where they came back to light saying, we're ready to reinvest. And I'm like, no, no, you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

You didn't follow through on the. You're in default.

[Ken Coleman]

So go back to the question Dave just asked you, because it's the right question. You didn't answer it. You went into. Well, because of their influence, what is the letter of the contract say as it pertains to these investors? They are in default. Everybody on this phone call agrees. So what does the contract say?

[Caller]

The contract says that they would only have a reduced equity amount based on what they gave. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's what they got.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if they want their money back. Toughies.

[Caller]

Yeah, it just, that's, that's kind of like the.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's an idea, boys and girls. You're going to abide by the contract this time.

[Caller]

So the thing is, my question basically is that's kind of the ultimatum they gave, which was, okay, either we're going to, we're going to own a percentage of the company or you're going to, you're going to buy us out. So given the types of people they are, obviously I want to get them out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you don't have 300 grand.

[Caller]

Correct. So my question is, would it be smart to try and put together some sort of payment plan with them to try and wipe that out?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, how much can you do? 25amonth, be done in a year?

[Caller]

It would, it would. I mean, that's kind of the question. If I try and put that dollar amount. I'm worried in my, in my room.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why don't you give them a percentage of profits that is equal to. I mean, what's your typical profit in a month? You said 40K.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, so let's give them 50% of profits until you get your 300.

[Caller]

That's, that's the idea that I had. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's good. And then I gotta tell you, I do want you to reset and realize that you, you still have these guys on a pedestal where they do not belong. You think they have more power than they actually have and you think they have more influence in the community than they actually have. Cause I know people in our community that screw people over. They're known. But they're also known for screwing people over. And so, you know, and when it's not convenient, and when it is convenient is when they do deals. And that's, that's who these guys are. So they're not as influential and powerful as you have made them out to be in your mind. I promise you they're not. Okay. Guys that break on deals like this are not guys that, they don't hold influence because other people know this. They know this about them. You're just finding it out late. Other people stayed away from them when you did a deal with them. So I don't. Don't do any of this based on, ooh, ooh, ooh. These guys are a big deal. These guys aren't a big deal. They're a couple of crooks didn't follow through on their deal. And that's who I'm negotiating this contract with. Yeah. If you want to buy them out for 300, give them their 300 back at 50% of profits until you get to 300, no interest, then that's fine. And that's going to take about a year, give or take. Yeah, I mean, that's okay. Do that, but. And I think you need some legal advice because I don't think, you know, I think you're reading a contract that was written by guys that screwed you, and so you need to get someone else to actually look at this contract and make sure. Because a lot of contracts. What I'm saying, Daniel, is a lot of contracts like this say if you're in default, you lose it all. You get nothing, honey. Just like the cereal, nothing, honey. Okay? That's what most contracts of this type would say. Default means you out, baby. That's what it means. Means you, you didn't put a million in, you only put 300 in. So you lose the nut and honey. You need to check that. I think it might have a nut and honey clause in it.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Brian's in New York. Hey, Brian, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave, how's it going? Pleasure to be speaking with you. I've been following you for years. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Obviously I've been following you. I've been listening to you, but I haven't been implementing the, you know, your strategies. So just to give you some information, I'm 29 years old. I just finished up college last year. I got my undergrad. I've got $55,000 in student loans and then I have about $35,000. $35,000 in credit card debt. And I just got a job with an insurance company. It's a $80,000 starting salary with a 10% target bonus. And obviously because of the loans and then the credit card debt, the credit card debt got so bad that I had to go into a, like, it basically was a charge off with the credit union that I was with. And so it's two cards. One's for about 19 and one's for about 16. So I'm trying to, you know, like you said, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've been, you know, haven't been using, having had good spending habits the past couple years. But luckily I did get this job. I just started about three months ago, but my credit scores. Really bad.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what'd you use?

[Caller]

Paycheck to? Paycheck. Before that? I was, I was working about. I was making about 35,000 while I was in school.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

What is the credit card debt composed of? Mostly?

[Dave Ramsey]

What did you buy?

[Caller]

To be honest with you, just a lot of. Of partying. Just being an irresponsible young 20 year old and yet in my young 20s and just mismanaging it and just spending it on going out and doing, you know, whatever it was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Were you able, not counting the partying, but just food and shelter and lights and water. Were you able to exist on the $35,000 income?

[Caller]

Not really, to be honest with you. A lot of.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's it take for you to exist? Bare minimum right now, like 40?

[Caller]

Bare minimum? I would say about. About 45 to 50.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, call it 50. You're making 80 plus bonuses.

[Ken Coleman]

You have no car payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

None of that.

[Caller]

No, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you put 30, if you live on 50 and you put 30 on the debt, you're debt free in two and a half years?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

How far behind are how long since you paid the credit cards?

[Caller]

It's been about three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you can probably settle those for about a quarter on the dollar. So the first thing I want you to do is I want you to save up $4,000 and call them and talk to him about the $16,000 one. Say I've got 4,000, would you? If you can accept that as settlement in full, I'll give it to you right now. No, no, no, we want payments now. I can't do that, but I can give you 4,000 as settlement in full. We can't do that. It requires six. Okay, I'll have to call you back later because I don't have six. I got four. No payments, no process. And settle those for pennies on the dollar and clear them out. And then attack the student loans with a vengeance. But you're going to have to get on a written plan. And here's the great news. You're about to turn your whole life around so that you can turn this debt around.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because you've correctly identified what caused the problem. Now you've got a second chance at being an adult making 80 grand and now you got to be an adult.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the guy in the mirror, he's a different dude now. Starting, ready, ready today. Starting today. Ready, set, go.

[Caller]

Absolutely. Yeah, definitely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, because that, because your money's gonna flow out of your personal healing and maturing, the fixing of your money is not going to occur independent of. Of you maturing and healing. You understand what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Those two things are together, they're part of the same equation. Because personal finance is 80% behavior. Behavior comes from you. And so you know, if you go, okay, this 80,000, I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. I feel like I'm sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else win while I was screwing off. And that's no more me. Now I'm in the game. They're getting ready to give me the ball and I'm going to run the ball in the dadgum end zone and nobody's going to stop me. And I'm going to look in the mirror and say on Friday night I'm working extra. I'm not going to happy hour.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I'm getting out of debt and I want my life back and I want to be a 30 year old man, not a 20 year old party animal. I'm just, I'm playing back for you, what you said. Okay, yes, but I'm speaking life over you, son. You can do this.

[Caller]

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I want to ask you real quick on that end. I'm sitting here listening here. You are a guy who listened to Dave for many years while doing all this destructive stuff. So that tells me that your conviction, your values aligned with what Dave had been saying on the show and yet your behavior was different. So I'm just real curious, not putting you on the spot to embarrass you, but put to lift you. What is, what's going on below the surface? What was really going on? Why all the partying?

[Caller]

I think I just had a. There was just like a, I guess a like, like a self esteem issue that I had in my young, younger years. And I kind of finished up school late. I had some like a rough go in my, you know, after high school. I, I really didn't, didn't take things seriously until I was about 24. And then that's when I started. I realized I gotta get back in school. I got back in school, worked my ass off while I was working paying for school. And I got it done and I got, I got a great opportunity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now you get to ring, now you get to ring the bell.

[Ken Coleman]

So here's what I want to leave with you on this because Dave nailed this. You didn't think you were good enough to pull off this money value stuff that we teach. You didn't think. You just had a self esteem issue and we don't have need to dig anymore. But I think it's really important you get off this call and realize what's really going on here because you're going to be tempted again in the days ahead to believe this false narrative that you weren't good enough to live like no one else. I just really think that's way below the surface.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I agree. And he said it. That's what he told us. Yeah. So you're exactly right. Exactly right. Hey, Brian, go get them, man. And call us back when you're winning. We want to hear your story. Okay. I love it. Hattie's with us. Hattie is in Indianapolis. Hi, Hattie, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. I'm fine, thank you. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

I just need some guidance about whether now that I have the means, I should pay off my estranged son's student loan debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you do that?

[Caller]

Well, because before we were estranged, I promised him that when my Father died. That I knew I would receive some money and that I promised him that.

I would pay the debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

There's no legal obligation.

I know that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. How much is it?

[Caller]

$30,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much money do you have?

[Caller]

2.5.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. I'd pay it off. Yeah. It's not about him.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's about you.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're keeping a promise you made. Has nothing to do with anybody else. This is you being you because that's who you are.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it just makes it greasy. It makes it slimy. But. And it does make you go in my. Am I losing my rabid man? But 30k out of 2.5. I think you'll be okay. You know, you can burn that much in the middle of the floor and not worry about it. And I. But I would have zero expectations that this fixes the estrangement. It's just you keeping your word. That's all it is.

[Caller]

Right. Right. And I don't want him to feel like.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, I can't control how he feels.

[Caller]

Right. No, Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

All I can control is what I promise to do, and I'm gonna do what I promise to do.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's all I can control. That's all I can control. Like, if I could control him, he wouldn't be estranged. You know? I mean, I can't make him do anything. You know, he wouldn't be. He wouldn't be off the ranch. Right. So. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you're going through that. How long have you all been disconnected?

[Caller]

Four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so sorry. Over what?

[Caller]

And he's 25 now and doing well.

Well, there was a straw that broke the camel's back. A big argument his senior year of high school. But I was a single mom most.

Of my life, and I think I. He was raised in a household full.

Of my anxiety and fear about how to. How to be a single mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. Yeah. Hey, you raised him. He's eating, he's alive. You fed him. Sometimes you just gotta kick back and go. That's what I did. I was trying to get by. Oh, well, next thing. Yeah, I'd write a check just to keep your word.

[Caller]

Foreign.

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[Dave Ramsey]

If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on, pay the mortgage and buy groceries? If anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. But how do you choose from all the options out there? Well, it's actually really simple. Life insurance has one job to replace your income if you die. That's the only job it needs. It's not good at anything else. Anything else it tries to do, it sucks at. So you need just good term life insurance. That's all I ever had. That's all I've ever recommended. 10 to 12 times your annual income is the amount of insurance and the length is a 15 to 20 year level term, which means the premium stays the same. If you want to learn more about this, use our free term life insurance guide, go to ramseysolutions.com termlifeguide or click the link in the show notes. Erin is here in Pittsburgh. Hi Erin, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm great. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay. I am a realtor and as such my income fluctuates. I just started the Every Dollar budgeting. I have the app. Here's my question that since I started I've put my business fees in with my household expenses and everything else.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller]

And now I feel like. Yeah, I know. So I'm getting, I have an appointment at my credit union to get a separate account. But here's my question. Is there, should I get another budgeting? Should I just open up a different EveryDollar app or should I put those expenses in the current Every Dollar app? Or how do I Budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

This you could try to run in the EveryDollar app. It's not really well designed for a business pl and a profit and loss statement. And you really need a business P and L. So it's just something like QuickBooks or something like that. They're very easy softwares. And basically what it is, it's all your gross revenues. The income you make in the real estate business goes into that separate new account. And the only thing you pay out of that new account is business expenses. So your realtor fees, if you buy signs or you buy, I don't know, anything that's a valid business expense associated with you doing your real estate business comes out of that account, nothing else. You don't pay any personal bills out of that account. Then what's left in that account is the actual profit on your real estate business.

[Caller]

Okay, great.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what comes out of that account then? When you take money out of that account and bring it home, you need to set aside a fourth of it for taxes.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so if you pull $10,000 out of that account, you need to set 2,500 aside because you're supposed to be filing once a quarter your estimated taxes. They're called quarterly estimates, and you're supposed to be doing that as well. If you don't keep up with that, number one, you'll get behind the eight ball and have a big old tax bill and it'll knock you down. Number two, you're gonna get penalized. So sit down with a tax preparer and help get them to show you how to do your quarterly estimates. Set up your separate account, run your separate business like you were running it for someone else. And then when you pull the profits out and bring them, set aside a fourth of it, and that money all is coming home. So how much have you made selling real estate so far?

[Caller]

I mean, it fluctuates. This year, my net Commission is around 45, and I estimate a little bit more. I also have some other income sources, so I'm trying to. I'm just trying to tweak everything. It's all in a big pile.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, good. What are the other income sources?

[Caller]

I teach part time at a university and I uber and I get some child support.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, right. Well, child support goes straight into your account. No question about that. When you teach, is that a W2 or. They are the 1099 in you, that's a W2. Okay. So you don't have any tax, so that money goes straight into your account. Okay.

[Caller]

Correct. And, okay, so that just goes okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And your Uber's 1090.

[Caller]

What about the Uber should. Yes. So should I put that in the real estate account?

[Dave Ramsey]

I would just say this is my business account. I'm gonna put my Uber income in there. And I'd have two line items. You know, I have real estate income and I have Uber income. And so, you know, you can, you can code the expenses. For instance, let's just use an example. If you were spending money on fuel to show houses, then we could have gasoline dash r for real estate, and then we could have gasoline dash you for. For Uber.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you could be able to pull up the different expenses associated with Uber, the different expenses associated with real estate, but they're all still net expenses going right down the list there. And you'll be able to tell what's happening with your business.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Question. How much are you spending? How many hours a week are you spending in the Uber?

[Caller]

I spend about 15 to 20, give or take.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that because you're running really tight financially?

[Caller]

Yes. This correct?

Right now I am. But it's also good income.

Just, I. I've not income if you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not good income if you're selling real estate.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I want you to get out of that. This is where I'm digging there. Because that time spent, that time spent there could be spent in other ways, and I want to see you get out of that. I'm not sure that's the best ROI on your time, not to mention tearing the car up and everything else. So I understand if you're filling a gap temporarily, but you were saying that's going to change. What's going to change about your real estate business so that you're not ubering?

[Caller]

Well, I had a few sales that got pushed. It's usually a little bit more regular, but sometimes. But it's, it's up and down. So sometimes I'm so busy I literally can't eat, and sometimes I have nothing to do and I'm just prospecting and not. Not earning anything. So I'm trying to get more. I've never really budgeted, so now I have the Every dollar app. I have the great advice from you all, and I have more of a. Of stability and consistency. So I think that's going to help me.

[Dave Ramsey]

The more you can get a steady flow in your real estate pipeline, the more your income is going to be steady in your real estate pipeline. And it's going to be a better income than Ubering. That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

And now that you're budgeting, I Love where your head's at. That's where you need to get to. Where you're accounting for down times, but you're actually prospecting. Prospecting, prospecting. Not in the Uber. That's where you want to get to because you're going to see a much better pipeline and long term results that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Shane is in Texas. Hi, Shane, how are you?

[Caller]

Good. How are you, sir?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

I just wanted some guidance. I'm getting ready to sell my home. Got divorced within the last year and got a little bit of debt, a little bit of commercial debt, a vehicle and some student loans. Nothing terribly crazy for my income level, but I just want to position myself best for being a homeowner again about maybe a year or so after I sell my house in the next few months. So just kind of looking what best to do with that money.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're going to get enough out of the house to be debt free?

[Caller]

I'll be, I'll be pretty close. So currently I have about $9,000 in commercial just credit card debt that I paid about 10% of that down in the last year. And then I'm currently on baby step two. And then I've got a vehicle that has a note, about 16 to 17,000 on it and that'll be paid off in just under two years. Still a new vehicle, all reliable. And that's the main reason I've kept it. Plus I'm not upside down on it right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your income?

[Caller]

About 125 gross.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much will you get out of the sale of the house?

[Caller]

Anywhere between 20 to 25.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Why would you not just pay off these debts?

[Caller]

So that's, that's my plan. I just kind of want to figure out what if you had any guidance on where best to put it first, because I'm not gonna be able to pay off the total amount.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you are. You're getting 25. You only owe 16 and nine. That's 25.

[Caller]

Well, and I've also got a student loan that's about 16,000 and so, and that's basically if I pay up, I could pay almost all of everything. My idea was if I pay off my vehicle and I hold the value in that for a while and then I also pay off the credit cards, then I'll just be making a student loan payment which will be my lowest. If I do that, I'll be paying the least amount of money per month at minimum and I can pay it off faster. But I didn't know if that was.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you don't have a car payment and you don't have the other loan and all you got is a student loan and you make 120 and you're no longer married, how fast are you planning on paying off 16,000 of student loan?

[Caller]

I think I could probably pay that off within the year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's horrible. That's so wimpy. No, like, like four months, $4,000.

[Caller]

I mean, that's all. Yeah, that's also realistic.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it is realistic.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. After that, I've also got. I've got three kids and I pay child support as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay.

[Caller]

There's no. It's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

You ain't got nothing else today. Stop your 401k and pay off your student loan in four months. And when the house sells, and when the house sells, immediately pay off the other two debts. There's nowhere to park the money because you're gonna pay off the debt. It's going into your checking account. You're gonna write a check, pay off the debts, and then in four months, $4,000 a month. Dude, roll up your sleeves and get after it. It's time. Listen, it's a new phase of life, a new chapter. Let's make the page clean. Okay? Don't screw around. And go, oh, I paid off $900 in a year. That bull.

[Caller]

Foreign, y'.

All.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors.

[Caller]

Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you on track with the baby steps? Take a quick quiz for free to check your progress and receive a free personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes, click the link entitled are you on track with the baby steps? And complete the free quiz. Sharice is with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Charisse, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How Are you better than I deserve? What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I'm calling my husband and I. Well, my husband agrees. I want to add an addition to our house. We've been in our house 14 years and our kitchen is tiny.

Our house is large.

We have a family of six, so we use all five of our bedrooms. And I have a home based daycare, so we use a large living area as my business. And I would like to add an addition on the back of our house which would give us the kitchen that I'd like. It would also bring our laundry upstairs, put a bathroom on for the daycare so they'd have their own bathroom. And it would give us a four season room which would just give us more living space. Space. The addition would cost us about $150,000 and I want to refinance to be able to do that. My husband is on board but says you would say no way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh. How much debt do you have? Not counting the mortgage?

[Caller]

No debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How much money do you have, not counting retirement.

[Caller]

About 15,000 as personal. The daycare also has its own emergency fund of 10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. And you're funding retirement now?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. Sounds like you got a pretty good plan overall. What's the home worth today?

[Caller]

Today it's worth about 375,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so are you in a neighborhood or on a piece of land or what?

[Caller]

We are in the neighborhood. We're inside the city limits, but we're on a large lot. We have about three quarters of an acre, which is one thing that I love about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

If I drew a circle of three miles around your home, what's the typical house price in that three mile circle?

[Caller]

I would say. Well, I found another home that checks all of my boxes and it was selling for 875,000. I don't know, an average price.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not in a three mile radius of your home though.

[Caller]

Oh, it is? Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it is. Okay. So what are the houses? One of the houses on your street sell for.

[Caller]

Between 305. I don't know, five or six hundred thousand?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I do. They don't sell for that much. It's between 300 and 450, isn't it? Really? You're getting ready to overbuild the neighborhood, aren't you?

[Caller]

Probably, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna have a house that, that she would try to sell for 600,000. And people that are looking for $600,000 houses don't drive on your street.

[Caller]

That's probably true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That means you've overbuilt the neighborhood. So that probably means you need to think about moving instead of doing this.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, how's the daycare business? How healthy is it?

[Caller]

It's very healthy.

[Ken Coleman]

What'd you make last year off of that profit?

[Caller]

Daycare? I made like 60,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I guess, Dave, where I'm going is, are we doing this for the space? Are we doing this because the daycare is in the house?

[Dave Ramsey]

And, you know, because she wants a kitchen while we're doing it. It's a $150,000 kitchen. And some other stuff got scope, creeped the. Well, I. I have owned so many pieces of real estate, and I grew up in a real estate guy's house. My parents were in the real estate business, so our furniture was trained to jump on the truck. So I don't get as emotionally tied down to certain locations as some people. To me, it's just a house. And so I think you might actually find something that better serves your needs for 600 in a neighborhood that's 500 to 700,000 and maybe is a little more modern, too, and would be close enough that you wouldn't lose your daycare clients and those kinds of things. I think that's out there. And before I overbuilt the neighborhood and did a renovation. And by the way, I've also done a couple of renovations while I was living in the home, and I'll never do that again. It makes me want to shoot myself. It's just sawdust and drywall, dust everywhere. And everybody's mad all the time. The subs are mad because they got to deal with the owners. The owners are mad because they got to deal with the subs, and you're screwing around inside my house while I'm trying to wash my underwear. It's awful. It's just awful. And I don't recommend it from a standpoint of that. This is a massive undertaking. It's a big deal, and it's going to take a lot of your life away for a year or a year and a half while you do this. Not to mention that when you're done, you've built a house that's kind of weird, and it's over built for the neighborhood, so you're gonna have a hard time getting good appreciation out of it and getting a good sale out of it. I would consider moving about 10 times out of 10 before I did this deal. But, yeah, that's if you did refinance it. The numbers we would tell you to go with are 15 year fixed on the whole mortgage cannot be move more than a fourth of your household take home pay. If it's more than that, then it's just off the table, period. You can't do it at all. And that's also going to be true when you move. It's off the table. You can't move. So. But I think you are getting ready to have another full time job for a year on top of the full time job that you have, which is renovation. It takes up, it takes up so much of your headspace. You burn so many calories managing a renovation, especially one while you're living in it. And it's just, it's just a deal. I can't recommend that to you. It's going to interfere with your business, it's going to interfere with your marriage. And when you're done, you're going to have an unusual floor plan on a property that you've overbuilt the neighborhood on. And I can't, I just don't think there's not much good here. The only good thing in the whole story is you got a new kitchen. Yeah. You all are renovated a house while you lived in it?

[Ken Coleman]

No, we've done little. We did a room over the garage, but it was so. I guess. Yes, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But it wasn't like, it wasn't like.

[Ken Coleman]

A full blown to where it was like interrupting everybody's lifestyle.

[Dave Ramsey]

My oldest daughter took her house all the way down and they. But they moved out and lived somewhere else for a year. Yeah, that makes sense because you just could. She took it so far down she couldn't work on it. I mean you couldn't live in it. It wasn't habitable. But they did a massive deal and it's almost like building a dead gum house. And matter of fact, sometimes it's easier to build a house in terms of how much of your brain power it takes up and those kinds of things. So yeah, folks, here's the deal. The best place you've got a range of 10 to maybe 20% price range of the homes on your street, the homes in your neighborhood. And be thinking about the illustration I just used. When you're thinking about buying a home or you're thinking about doing a renovation. Dave, I want to put in a $25,000 pool. Okay. How many houses on your street have $25,000 pools? None. You're getting ready to spend 25,000 that you will never see again. That's a lot of swimming. Because that thing you're not going to increase the value of the house now. Okay, Dave, 60% of the homes already have a pool. We're going to add a pool. The pools are very nice in our neighborhood. And $25,000 or $50,000 or whatever the deal is, you can spend a million on a pool, but, you know, so does it fit the neighborhood? Otherwise, it's consumption. And you really can't justify consumption at those levels. You're better off to move. And so when you're buying a home, try to buy in the bottom 25% of the price range. That is going to go up more. Because think about Everybody buying a $500,000 house wants to buy in a neighborhood that's 500 to 700. Nobody buying an $800,000 house wants to buy in A neighborhood that's 500 to 700. So it's harder to sell and consequently does not appreciate in value as much. And so you want the full appreciation and you want the equipment ease of selling it. And if you're in the bottom 25% of the price range in your neighborhood, when you're finished with your renovation or when you purchase or when you do whatever, that's the sweet spot. But when you're in the top of the neighborhood or over the top of the neighborhood, you could get stuck in the thing. And if you build an unusual floor plan, you're just about guaranteeing you're going to get stuck in. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 42,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one AI cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should, too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com Ramsey.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host Today Ron is in Indianapolis. Hey Ron, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good sir. How you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I'm getting married spring and my fiance said I should probably give you guys call for some advice. I have recently lost my job and I am in a lot of credit card debt and we're also trying to plan the wedding so we're trying to figure out the best way forward. The question is should I dig into my IFA account and take that money to pay off one of my credit cards for more cash flow?

[Dave Ramsey]

What was your job?

[Caller]

I was a construction project manager.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what were you making?

[Caller]

About 75,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And why did you lose your job?

[Caller]

Laid off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller]

I have no idea to be honest with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not making money.

[Caller]

I got no, I do have veterans disability coming in. It's about $4,000 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I said they are not making money. Was the company you were working for hurting financially?

[Caller]

I don't think so. They let a team of us go and said we just have to cut some costs. So I'm assuming we didn't see the big picture.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just commercial or construction? Construction, I said commercial or residential? I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Oh, commercial.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, cool. And when did you get fired?

[Caller]

I got back in August, so it's been about a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what have you been doing since then?

[Caller]

I have been going to school and applying for jobs like crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Talk about the jobs you've been applying for and what you did.

[Caller]

So I've been applying for more project management positions specifically in IT because that is my education background and I've had a few interviews. I had one today that was pretty successful. I'm hoping and praying that that goes further.

[Ken Coleman]

And what's the schooling? And were you doing the schooling while in the other job?

[Caller]

My current schooling, I'm getting a master's degree in information and communication and yes, I was going to school while working that job.

[Ken Coleman]

And you have no physical disabilities that would hamper you from doing this work?

[Caller]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, no, I would not cash out your retirement. I'd get a job. I get six jobs and then when you get a real job get rid of five of the six. But I'd be working like a crazy man doing everything I could because you got to pay for a wedding and you got to keep the dog the thing afloat without starting to cash out your retirement. You cash out retirement, you're going to get hit with a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. It's like borrowing money at 40% interest because you didn't get off your butt and go get a job. The good news is you are off your butt and you have been looking and you did get an actual interview. So that's great news. So, yeah, you are moving your feet in the right direction. So that's the direction. That's the answer. And if you don't land something in the next two weeks and start working like for 75 or 80 or 100,000, then you need to be delivering pizzas and walking dogs and cutting grass and cleaning toilets or whatever you've got to do to start making some money. Yeah, but no, don't cash this stuff out. Go make money. Go make money. Work, work, work. Doing something, side hustles, anything. And get the wolf away from the door because it's causing you to think weird. Like your whole question is based on I'm defeated and I'm not going to allow you to be defeated. When's the wedding again?

[Caller]

May 30th next year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And who's paying for it?

[Caller]

We are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much is the wedding?

[Caller]

We have cut it down to about $15,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Very conservative. And you've got how much in credit card debt?

[Caller]

I have roughly $70,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so $85,000 changes your whole life.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And once I quantify it that way, you're a project manager. I start looking at it like, start looking at it like a project. Okay, how do we go get $85,000? What must be true and what period of time and what's reasonable. And I'm going to work it on the side and I'm going to. Oh, by the way, you should be doing that. That's what you ought to be doing is get some IT stuff, some side hustle there because all kinds of that. You can pick up a freelance immediately on contract work and start, start helping people with it, whatever it is, where the hardware, software issues. But aside from that, I'm, you know, I just set the goal to put eight. It's like I'm building a building. All right, what's the bill? What's the process? Well, I need a budget, I need a plan, and I need a schedule. And I'm going to plug the contractors, the subs into the schedule and I'm going to plug them into the budget and then we're going to execute and push every domino. And when one domino refuses to fall, we're getting a new domino. In other words, the shove doesn't show, we get a different one. He comes in and decides he's going to double his bid. No, that's not how this works. We have a bid, we're going with it. And we hold to the project and we push, push, push, push, push. Okay, $85,000 in two years is. 65 is, I'm sorry, $42,500 a year. So 4,000 bucks a month. Right. That's what I need above my living expenses. And I'm out of this whole thing in two years. I paid for the wedding and I paid off all the credit cards. And that's not counting the fact that you're going to have a dual income after May 31st. I'm just making, I'm just showing you an example. How do you eat an elephant? A bite at a time. But now we've got to go get the money to do that. And that involves getting employed.

[Ken Coleman]

And if this is a big. If you can pause the master's program, I'd pause it. I don't know if you can, but if you can, I would because that'll still be out there. And right now, everything now is about getting out of debt, paying this wedding, paying for this wedding. The master's degree is always going to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Be there, creating a sustainable situation. And that means income.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so we need income, income, income. Here's what's going to be weird, Ron, as you add income to this equation, whether it's four side hustles combined to make a full time job, while you're looking for the full time job or a full time job plus four side hustles. As you add income, every time you add income to this equation, your confidence level is going to go way up and it's going to be associated with your level of activity. And you know, and then you're going to be much more appealing in an interview.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's exactly right. Activity is absolutely the key. When you get let go. There's all kinds of data out there about it's the same thing emotionally as losing a loved one. So you have to acknowledge that. Wait a second, whether I was a group of people or not, and whether I did anything wrong or not, if it was just a layoff, in this case, it's an economic layoff or the, the company's economics, it still hurts. And so activity is the key. Still feeling valuable because you are providing value and getting paid for it. Dave, you're absolutely right on that. That's the best thing one can do. Lick your wounds for a day or two at most and then get back into it and stay active.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let's give him a copy of both books of Ken's or two of Ken's books anyway. The proximity principle, which will help you in the job search and finding the work you're wired to do. Take the assessment in that and verify that you're in the right field and that you're heading into the right mindset. And both of those are a gift to you, Ron, and we'll just call it an early wedding gift. How's that? Yeah, I'm going to fix this with income, not with cashing out my retirement. That does things for your heart, your soul and your future. The cashing out the retirement does the opposite, too. Let's face it, health insurance today is more complicated than ever. The system isn't built to help the average person understand and it leaves too many families unprotected. That's why you need my friends at Health Trust Financial. They aren't just brokers. They're trusted health insurance advisors who have been helping families like yours for over 20 years. You don't have to navigate it alone. The experts at Health Trust Financial listen to your needs, work to understand your family situation and budget, then help you choose the health insurance plan that's right for you. That's why there's Ramsey Trusted and why we've worked with them for two decades. Look, medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in America today. One hospital visit can wipe out your savings and undo all your hard work. So health insurance isn't optional. It's part of your financial defense plan. Health Trust Financial knows their stuff and they're the only health insurance provider I recommend. So get clear about health insurance plans and get the coverage that's right for [e-mail] if you are tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free Every Dollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month and they're hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities, whether it's Jade or Rachel or George. They're going to help you find thousands of dollars of margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt and you can start building some wealth. And you can ask any kind of question you want during the live Q and A. It's free. Sign up for [e-mail] webinar John's in Madison, Wisconsin. Hey, John, how are you?

[Caller]

Good afternoon, Dave and Ken. How are you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up? Wonderful.

[Caller]

So I either need confirmation of how I'm feeling or I need a kick in the shorts. My wife and I are trying to decide if I should quit working. Well, kind of. At least for a time. So every weekend and during many work nights, I do admin, property management and accounting and HR work for my wife's small business. And our we have a few side hustles, mainly rental real estate. But during the day I'm I daylight as a manager at a construction company where I average 40 hours a week over the year. But that emphasis is on the average. Winter is really easy, but the rest of the year I'm just running on fumes. Between my wife's business and our rental and remodel side hustles, I work 25 hours more just during nights and weekends, and I'm always behind. I feel like I need another five to eight hours a week to catch up. If I hire out all that extra that I do, we estimate we'd add about 83 grand in expense, more or less, depending on the project load. I make 120 a year with bonuses to 40. My wife makes between 4 and 500,000 a year, which has been lower because we've had four kids in the last five years and. And she's been on maternity leave for parts of all of that. This year we're shaping up around 592.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she do if we don't make.

[Caller]

She's an attorney.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're running the business ops side of the law office?

[Caller]

Exactly right. Admin, hr, anything that.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many team members at her law office? How many work for her?

[Caller]

Five members, counting her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. There's not a ton of hr, five.

[Caller]

People, but just payroll, you know, every two weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's account. Yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Ken Coleman]

How much is your side. How much is your side work make.

[Caller]

Spin off for you for 20, 25. We're looking at 42,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So if you, if she paid someone 80 to be her admin, her office manager and instead paid you to be the office manager and you went down there and went to work for 80k and you made 40k with the side stuff, that's 120. And then she makes 4 to 500 on top of that, right?

[Caller]

That's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I just love working and I don't like to admit that I don't have enough hours in the day. And I just don't know if I'm being.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you did admit it. You just gave us a very detailed breakdown. Yeah, you just. What you don't want to admit is you think you need a Superman cape or something. I don't think that's necessary.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the quandary? Why'd you call.

[Dave Ramsey]

What would you rather do? Be the office manager for the law firm or do the. What's your construction work during the day? Which one do you like doing?

[Caller]

I like doing the other one. I want to do the side hustles. I think that helps our life. You know, I can. We got four kids that, you know, in five years they'll stop destroying the house. But for the next five years. Years, it's hard to keep up with just the life's, you know, laundry and eating healthy and all that stuff. But it feels like house husband was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not in this equation until just now.

[Caller]

No, no, no. That wouldn't be what I would be doing. I'd be doing the 25 hours of work plus the eight hours I think I need. In addition to.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna have an office at the law firm and you're gonna get up and take a shower and go in at 8 o' clock every day.

[Caller]

Yes, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And work there all day long. And from that home base, run the side hu. And then both of you are gonna go home at 5:30 to be with the kids.

[Caller]

Exactly. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. This is not. We're not working from home. This is not remote. You're gonna go down there and run the freaking law firm. And it needs to be run much better due to you being there and become much more profitable. So you ought to be cutting expenses and help the other attorneys increase revenue. Billable hours.

[Caller]

Yep. Correct. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

That's exactly what I wanna do. And I wouldn't be at 8, it'd probably be at 5:30 in the morning and you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Be able to be home earlier and do those things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because right now, I mean, you basically got two jobs. Which one do you want to keep is what it amounts to. And I think you've already decided. But I don't think you keep both. It's not sustainable. There's no reason. Not like y' all got a shortage of money.

[Caller]

Yeah, it does.

[Dave Ramsey]

It doesn't prove anything. Listen, if you don't have a shortage of money, working 100 hours a week doesn't prove anything.

[Caller]

That's what I gotta. That's kind of the paradigm shift to wrap the head around.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I think I Think you, you know, let's commit to increasing the value of the law firm as a result of you being there. Commit to the side hustle becomes increased in value as a result of you being there more fully. And so you end up moving from 120 to, you know, $150,000 worth of value that you're adding to the equation. And then she's making the 4 to 500, and y' all are killing it. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I'd quit.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I'm going to work. But I'm going to work down there. I'm not doing this from my bedroom with my slippers on. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I just sense that you're still struggling with this. You know, this is right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's holding you back?

[Ken Coleman]

Something's there.

[Caller]

It's a classic gazelle intensity and not knowing when to let off. You know, in the last five years, we charged into baby step five, six, and seven, and, and how do we head off a gas?

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, this is it. This is.

[Ken Coleman]

How can I also say that I don't know that this is what you feel? So I don't mind being wrong, but I just have a hunch that you're a good dude and you believe in hard work, and hard work is a part of not just your identity, but I would say, your value system. And this feels to you like you're mailing it in while the wife is making big money and you're having a hard time with that. That's what I think is really going on. Am I right or wrong?

[Caller]

You're very right. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Ken Coleman]

So I thought so.

[Caller]

You should do this for a living, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, I, I, I've talked to a few people.

[Caller]

Here.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's what I think then. Okay. So thank you for being honest about that. What Dave laid out for you is not a guy who is mailing it in and letting his big shot wife lawyer bring home the bacon. That's not what we heard from you, nor is it what Dave prescribed. So the narrative needs to be, hey, I'm actually going to cut back on this other gig to immeasurably improve our life. And what I'm doing as the husband, as the man, I am making a massive change, which will also be a massive contribution. You believe that? I heard you say it. So that's what the focus is. So I get it. I completely see where you're coming from. But you got to change your focus.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm able to add enough value to this situation that it Makes sense. And that's what it comes down to. And that's what we did. And I'm doing that. And I'm not cloaking this in some weird work life balance crap or this is an excuse to be remote or all that. It's none of that. It's not you hiding at all. This is you stepping into another thing, but much more fully. And you got your lack of focus. You're probably not doing great at either job. And all of a sudden when you start doing great at this job, I think you're going to see an increase in revenue and net profits anyway, whether it's reduced expenses or increased revenue on both the side hustle and the law firm. Just because you're freaking paying attention all day long and you've had a good night's rest.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's an old phrase. I think they made it one of those cheesy successory posters once. If you chase two rabbits, you lose them both. And there's some great wisdom to that. You know, there's just only so much you can do with divided.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've never even caught one. What are you talking about? If you chased a rabbit and caught it. No, I've shot him, but I never chased one down. Never was that quick.

[Ken Coleman]

I know I said it was cheesy, but it's an old phrase. A lot of truth.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Yeah, that's it. I mean you can't, you can't. You know. Tough to serve two masters. Yeah, that we should say if you.

[Ken Coleman]

Chase two rabbits, you're going to be double frustrated.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got to prove how slow you really are. Yeah. O.

[Caller]

Sam.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Our question of the day is brought to you by why refi? You've tried budgeting. You've tried making minimum payments. Those defaulted private student loans are still holding you back. Y Refi might be able to help. Learn [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not in.

[Ken Coleman]

All states Today's question comes from Hannah In Minnesota, I worked for a small business for 30 years until it was sold a few months ago. I still work for the company under the new owner. My former employer surprised me recently by telling me that because of the part I played in his success, he will be gifting me $25,000 next month. I am not his employee anymore, so no taxes will be taken out. I've research this scenario but can't find an answer on how I deal with this. When it comes to tax time, is it called a gift or should I ask for a 1099? It is not really compensation in terms of me working for it. I want to avoid tax problems if at all possible. That's outside my expertise. What do you think on that one?

[Dave Ramsey]

I would sit down with a Ramsey Tax pro, an ELP and endorse local provider under the Ramsey trusted program and get an actual piece of advice. My opinion just reading this is it's a gift. You don't have to do anything. Now, the gift is large enough that it does trigger a gift tax, but that's on him, not you. And so if he tries to claim this as an expense in his business, then that's compensation. It's not a gift because a business can't give a gift and write it off as an expense unless it gives it to a nonprofit. A 501C3 right. And so if he if you give a gift to an individual from the business, it is not an expense. But that's not up to you. All it's up to you is you got a gift, somebody gave you $25,000. It's that simple. I don't think it's taxable, but you should double check with you might. Here's the problem. If he claims it as an expense, he has to issue a 1099.

[Ken Coleman]

Does it matter that this is probably coming from the proceeds?

[Dave Ramsey]

It is. It's coming from the proceeds. Yeah, it doesn't matter. But he still, he could claim it as a business expense and say, you know, I'm just paying out some of the old employees and claiming it on 1099. If he pulls a 1099 on it now, you got a compensation issue now you got to pay taxes on it. Right. But if he just simply sent you a gift, Merry Christmas. From an individual to an individual, because you don't work for him anymore, that's not taxable. So.

[Ken Coleman]

Shockingly not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, again, it is taxable on him if he hasn't done. Hadn't got some tax advice on how he does this. So anyway.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hannah's in Missouri. Hey, Hannah, what's up in your world?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave and Ken. Glad to be on here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, good to have. Glad to have you. How can we help you?

[Caller]

Help?

Yeah. So my husband and I are newlyweds. We've been married for just shy of four months and we come from very different worlds when it comes to money. I'm a pastor's kid number four. Like no money in the family. And he's an only child and comes from a lot more money than I do. And his. We are still in that weird transition of out of just getting out of college, still young enough to be on parents health insurance. And I'm wanting to find the best way as a wife to encourage my husband to become fully separated from his parents financially. I know that that's the healthiest, the smartest, the wisest decision. But they still are very much like, hey, you need something, just call us, give us a call and we'll pay for it here, we'll pay for it there. And wanting him to stay on everything for as long as he can to soak up up all the money he can. And I have not had that luxury. So I'm trying to find the best way to go about that conversation, I guess.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I think there's two or three issues. One is them giving you cash or buying items for you. Two is staying on health insurance. Three is staying on their Netflix plan and their cell phone bill and furnishing their cell phone or something like that. That's the kind of stuff that you people usually look at, you know, not, not getting rid of that and those kinds of things. So, so what does he say when you talk to him about this?

[Caller]

Sometimes he's like, well, they're just being nice, like it's okay if it's a really big thing that we need help with. He's like, well, just let them help. And I personally am just like, hey, we can go without and struggle through this without having the extra help.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because like, give me an example of a big thing.

[Caller]

For me it would be furniture. I'm used to living in an unfurnished house and until you can get it right, but they Hear, oh, he wants a bookshelf or wants a couch or whatever. And they're like, let's just buy it. Let's just buy whatever he wants. And I'm like, well, no, we don't have the money, so let's just wait. And that. I guess that's an easy example.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that does. That makes sense. Okay, and you've been married a year?

[Caller]

No, just shy of four months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, four whole months. When you.

[Ken Coleman]

When you say that to him, does he. Does he dig in as to asking you, why do you feel that way? I get why he says what he says, but I'm curious. Does he lean in a little bit to understand where you're coming from?

[Caller]

Yeah, he understands that. Why independence really matters to me. I think it's just all new to him. He lived with his parents up until we got married, so he had not been independent until about. He's 24. He had gone to college, and they're just like, this is my baby boy, so let him stay for as long as possible.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm like, well, the good news is they're very kind people. They're very generous people. They're not toxic about it. They're just being overly helpful. You're not describing bad people. You're describing sweet people. But they are violating boundaries. And you guys are not able to have the dignity of a standalone house. And that you're missing that dignity.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they don't even realize they're doing that. They're really. These people are not. There's no malice in anything you've described.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I think you just continue to talk to him and say, honey, I'm not okay with us not having the dignity of a standalone situation. The only way we need a couch in here is if we buy a couch or if there was a special moment and they said, okay, for Christmas, we're gonna furnish the living room for you. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's an okay thing. But that's a Christmas. That's not just every time you had a wish, they send. The stuff starts showing up on your porch. We don't need that.

[Caller]

I think it eats away at my pride a little bit because I'm used to being independent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it does. It does.

[Caller]

I'm not used to that, but I think you described that perfectly.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I think you need to set your pride aside when it's an honest and a clear gift versus a pattern, like, for instance, Christmas, or, for instance, I say, hey, the whole family's going on a trip next year. We're paying for everybody. Set your pride aside and go, okay, okay.

[Ken Coleman]

If they want to pick up dinner, same deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Mom and dad, they're old, they got money, they want to buy dinner when they take you out. I buy dinner for my kids. My kids got plenty of money. But that's just, that's okay. I mean, I, you know, you do some of those things, but that, but what is those should be one offs and individualized situations, not a pattern. And what you're dealing with is a pattern that your husband needs to respect your desire for some individuality, some dignity on. And so, honey, it's really, really important to me that we have our own Netflix account. It's really, really important to me that we have our own cell phone. And it's really important to me that when you turn 25, we move the health insurance. We've got a plan to do that and we look, lay it all over there. Until then we can ride this one. It's really, really important to me that we just don't randomly get things from them every time we had a wish. Sometimes some generosity in individual holidays or birthdays or gifts or trips or something, we can look at those things. But this pattern of they support us, I can't deal with it eats my guts out. And you could tell him that, that he can hear that.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's a good way to approach it. I like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I left. When I left home, I was more in your camp. And it was like, good luck, you're on your own. Sink or swim. You know, if you really get super hungry, call two days in advance. We'll have some, some spaghetti on the stove when you get here. But other than that, you're on your own, right? My wife, on the other hand, was. Her family was more like your husband's family and very kind people, very generous and, and a lot wealthier. And I couldn't stand it. He owned a market, a convenience market. And when we would go in at Thanksgiving, all the kids filled up their cars with gas.

[Caller]

Oh, wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

To go back home. And it drove me nuts, just like it's driving you nuts. But, but it's like that was a little gift, a little something that was. But they grew up going to the market and getting gas their whole lives. Because he owned a market, though, I mean. But now when you're 26, you should probably quit getting free gas from dad, you know, it's like, golly, John's in Minnesota. Hi, John, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing great today. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

That was great. I say I am currently dating a woman. We've been dating for two and a half years and we plan to get married and all of that good stuff. And we've already talked about finances and we're going to join them together and we're on the same page about that. So that's all good. The question that I have is that we are both currently homeowners. She operates, we both operate businesses out of our home. She has a salon built into hers. And then I do it stuff 30 hours a week. And then I'm also a musician, so I play about three times a week as well. And so when we get married, obviously, you know, we only need one house. So I'm trying to figure out what to do. I. There's not enough room for me to office out of that house as well. She has four children and so I won't be able to move all my stuff and all my music gear and all that fun stuff there. So I do currently have a roommate that's helping with the mortgage. And so my dilemma right now is just do I keep the house and continue to office out of it and have that space as well, or should I sell the house and then, then if I do sell the house, what do I do with the money and then rent an office?

[Dave Ramsey]

Hmm. So there's not room for you to move everything you do into her house with her salon and her four kids?

[Caller]

That's correct. Yeah. There's not even enough room bedrooms for all the kids. One of them sleeps in the big main room in the basement, has his own little corner and he's happy. But yeah, there's not a even enough bedrooms for everyone to fit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what's your home worth?

[Caller]

My home is roughly worth around $170,000 and I owe about 71, 72 on it. And so there's a decent chunk of equity in there. But I do also, I have an equity loan out right now to my ex wife for 24,000. So it's probably down to about 22 now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Okay. So what would say you do it work from home?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I'm a service desk tech and so a lot of what I do is based out of the house. I get the tickets and kind of the first line of response and then we can remote into a lot of different clients that we have and help them. Otherwise I do go on site, but I do need an office of some.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sort and that you don't need an office for your museum shake.

[Caller]

No, but I do have a lot of gear associated with it. I do a little bit of recording. Most of the revenue from the business comes from the actual performances. And so There's a small SUV's worth of equipment essentially that I also need to store and load and load out all the time too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And there's not garage room at her house for that.

[Caller]

There's a garage, but it would need some substantial works in order to become a little bit more proof from the elements and stuff. We're in Minnesota. I don't know if you've been up here. It's a little colder in December here than it is in Nashville.

[Dave Ramsey]

Heard the rumor.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. What, what is the mortgage on the house that you own?

[Dave Ramsey]

He said 7170 and then.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no. What's the payment? Sorry, I'm looking. I'm going somewhere with this. The monthly payment. What is that?

[Caller]

The payment is 960. So it's not a large payment at all.

[Ken Coleman]

And the reason I'm asking that is if you play this out the way you laid it out, I'm wondering what would it cost you to rent a smaller office space?

[Caller]

So yeah, I started investigating that. And in the downtown area here, it would be about 550 to get an office. And then it could be first floor and stuff too. And I would have 24, 7 access to. So what I need to access it to load and unload gear for the weekend gig.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, so you could also store the stuff there as well.

[Caller]

That's what they're telling me. I haven't had a chance to tour.

[Ken Coleman]

Where I was going next. The next question I was gonna ask you is what's happen gonna cost you for a very small storage unit to store the stuff.

[Caller]

I'm.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm looking at least run through those numbers if I'm you to go. If I sell the house, clear my debt and you know, my expenses actually can go down. In other words, I'm not paying a mortgage anymore over there.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your roommate paying you?

[Caller]

550.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your net out of pockets, about 400. And if you keep the house.

[Caller]

Correct.

Just for the house, but then, you know, double up on utility bills and all that. If I rent an office, as far as as I saw that they were communicating to me, I want to pay for Internet or your air conditioning or any of that fun stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think the office is a better play because I think it simplifies your life. I think keeping the old house is a more complicated thing and it's going to take up more Head space. While you're trying to learn to be married to a lady with four kids who runs a beauty salon. And while you're trying to run your business and everything, you've got one more thing to deal with, and that's roommate and all this other stuff. And I think it's just the cleanliness of it, the simplicity of it, of being in the office feels really good.

[Caller]

And that's kind of what I'm leaning towards as well too. I've had the house. I signed the papers with my brother and my father the day after I turned 18. So I think a lot of my hesitation is probably sentimental.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, but it is, you know, we are turning the page to a different chapter in your life. You're now going to be a married dude, you know, and so married dudes have different things. Nothing wrong with that.

[Caller]

This is true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing wrong.

[Caller]

And you know, and I'm trying to let go of that side of it too. And I really, I'm. I'm working through the baby steps right now. I'm. I was up to my one. My step one being complete, but I just had to get some.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, how much debt do you stuff?

[Caller]

Not a whole lot. So I. Like I said, I do have a home equity loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, I got that. But I mean, how much debt other than the house do you have?

[Caller]

$6,000. Not very much at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you can clear that by selling the house.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

This advances you into baby step three pretty solidly. Does she have any debt, not counting the house?

[Caller]

She does. She has some credit card debt and stuff like that too. And so just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You guys combining your finances, cutting up her credit cards and clearing all this debt with the sale of your house and moving into this office. Now I've got a who reason to do this. Yeah. Sell the house.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And get out of debt. Both of you. And you're both together are now unified. And this is the. Upon marriage, of course, we're talking about all of this and then we're, you know, we're combined and we're moving forward. Absolutely, absolutely. That's the way to go. Lynn is in Ohio. Hi, Lynn. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi there.

Good.

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, what's up? My son, when he was around 18co. Signed for a car loan with a girlfriend at the time who is now an ex girlfriend.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, that was stupid.

[Caller]

It was really stupid. And I had no idea that this had happened because he didn't ask me about it before he did that, or I would have said no way. So now, of course, they've gone their separate ways and.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she's not paying well.

[Caller]

Not very well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, Is the car. Is the car in his name or her name?

[Caller]

I believe it's in her name.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Nothing he can do except talk her out of it.

[Caller]

Well, we tried that. I've tried to encourage her to refinance with another.

[Dave Ramsey]

You tried to encourage her to refinance or he did?

[Caller]

I did. I've talked to her and. But she has since stopped communicating with me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no kidding. Who wants to talk to you, right? You're completely interfering in something that isn't even yours, boy. Child needs to grow a backbone and call his ex and get this straightened out. He's seen his mama in.

[Caller]

Well, I don't think she'll communicate with him either.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, that's. That's the only one she should communicate with because that's going to keep him from suing her. But you got no footing in this.

[Caller]

He wants to file bankruptcy to get his name off of.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he doesn't file bankruptcy on a car that hadn't been repoed just because he's pissed at the ex girlfriend. Let's just take stupid and double it. No, no, no, no, no, no. Mama, you gotta stay out of this. This is not your play. Boychild done made this bed. He gets to walk in it. So, yeah, he needs to call her up. He needs to get an attorney and tell her that if the car is not sold or refinanced in 30 days, that he's going to sue her. Her. And asked the judge to force her to sell the car because she's not paying on time and she's destroying his credit. So.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

But. But you cannot. This is not your job. Let me tell you what if she didn't hang up on you in the first 30 seconds you were talking to her, there's something wrong with her. She shouldn't have been. I mean, who are you. You calling me? That's what she would tell you.

[Ken Coleman]

What this is. This is that helicopter mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know that scene. Hey, hey, hey.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm trying to help out my boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, what are we doing here, man? This is. This is the thing that's happening in this generation. The parents are showing up in places that if our parents would have shown up in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buddy of mine got himself into a mess when he was that age, and he called his dad, who was an old marine sergeant, and he said, dad, what do you think I ought to do. And he goes, big enough to get yourself into this, you're big enough to get yourself out. Tell me how you did it. That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm going to finish my glass of sun tea. Talk to you later.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client.

[Dave Ramsey]

Promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Welcome to the show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality and number one best selling author is my co host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Michael is in Seattle. Hey Michael, what's up in your world?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. I'm a single parent with disabled children and I have about 15,000 in Sally Maimones and 80,000 in government student loans on the save plan and I've done baby step one. I'm doing the Every dollar app and that's going well. And I've been getting my hands on your advice and on your podcast about student debt and how to try to improve that and I'm just looking for some advice on kind of what to do here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You said you had your single dad of disabled children tell me about that.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. So I take care of them and I take care of their need and they have medical appointments, you know, throughout the, throughout each week that, that I take care of.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is the nature of their disability?

[Caller]

Intellectual disabilities, neuromotor disabilities?

[Dave Ramsey]

All 4 of disabilities.

[Caller]

All of them? Yeah, all of them have a variety of disabilities.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. And you have full time custody?

[Caller]

I have, yeah. Full, I have full primary. Full primary custody.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, does that mean you have them all the time or what's that mean?

[Caller]

Yeah, I have them. I have them most of the time. I, I don't have them for a few weeks in the summer and then I split Christmas and spring break.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make, what do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I work as a care coordinator. So I help people get into assisted living homes I help people get on a variety of Medicaid waivers and then I help them get disability supports. And I currently am at an hourly rate and I'm working part time. But as I build my clientele, it moves to a commission. And it seems like the commission is actually a pretty good, a pretty good commission. Like for example, you know, part time, part time Commission is about 5,000amonth. Full time commission is closer to 8,900amonth. But I'm not, I'm not there yet.

[Ken Coleman]

Who's watching the kids when you're working?

[Caller]

I. They're at school. They're at school and then after school they're watched by family. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So what is the. I'm just sitting here listening to this and it feels like you need more money, you need to make more money.

[Caller]

Yeah, I need to make more money. That's.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the long term? What's the long term? Let's, I know you got a lot going on, but let's just assume that you could snap your fingers and do the thing you wanted to do and make more money.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is that at 8,900 when you get to that point, are you going to be okay?

[Caller]

I feel like I would, yes. It's a good job. There's a lot of potential for growth. It takes four to five years to really learn it. And I've been doing it for about a year part time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you only part time?

[Caller]

Because I'm taking care of, taking care of the children's, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well then how would you be able to be full time?

[Caller]

Say that again, sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

How, how are you going to be able to move to full time?

[Caller]

I've been, I've been slowly adjusting my, or increasing my hours. I've been able to work, work a little bit at night, work on the weekends from home.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you told me, you told me just a few minutes ago that the kids are in school and then when they're not in school, families watching them. So that would tell me that you have time to work full time.

[Caller]

They, I have. So, so they get to school about, they get to school about 9:30 and then they're out of school about 4:30. And I commute, I commute an hour each way. And so I'm working Tuesday through Friday from about 11:30 to about 4:30 and then I need to pick them up by 5:30. So that's my work schedule.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So what glares to me is we need to get a job locally or two jobs, talk to family. I mean you've got to really step this game up here. The work situation you have is not, not helping you in four to five years to be able to make that. You got to make way more money than that well beyond four to five years from now. So you need a new professional plan is what I'm trying to push at you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So are these children adopted or biological?

[Caller]

Biological.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And is there prognosis to be self sustaining as adults or will they always need care?

[Caller]

One of them will probably always need chess.

[Dave Ramsey]

1. Okay, so I don't, I don't know the answer to the equation unless there's some way you can do some of the work remote and some from the actual office to, that allows you to be there as much as you're trying to be there. And I don't know, you've got two things pulling at you that are both very valid things. And one of them is very valid is to make enough money to clean the mess up and have a sustainable life. And two is to take care of these children. And you're a great guy trying to figure out how to do both. And I don't have a great answer for you. But bottom line is what Ken said earlier, and you already knew that before you called Michael, is this is a math problem and it's an income problem. And so what can we do to. How can we shift around what we're, how we're caring for these children or who's caring for the children or whatever? What can we do to get you, to get you in a position that you can make your 8,900 and that means you're working full time instead of part time. And I don't hear how you're getting there right now. So. But yeah, that these, it's not, it's a, it's a terrible paradox to be stuck in betwixt in between this. But it's also one that. It's that you know, you've been appointed to solve this and so you've got to create some income while providing this care. And I don't have a magic wand. I don't know where to tell you. I wish I did. And if there's anybody I wanted to help today, it was you, man. What. What a thing.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I would just say simplify this. We've got to find something from 9:30 to 5:30 30. We've got to get a job that doesn't require me to drive two hours a day. There are some things that can be changed here which will make this far less hectic for you because you Already got a hectic life. So simplifying so that you can then maximize your income is. Is the goal here. Without us giving you super specifics, that's the goal. So I'm thankful that the kids are in school, thankful that you got family to support you. That does give you a chance here. Even though I'm sure it feels really, really hard. Yeah, you can't get out of this.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's. It is a. It is about arranging life in such a way that you can make a living. Yeah.

[Caller]

Foreign.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Mary's in Colorado. Hi, Mary, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well, thank you, Mr. Ramsey. Thanks for taking my call, Paul.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So I have a whole life policy and I've been paying on it for the last five years. It's got a cash value around $35,000 currently, but I pay $792 a month. I was looking to see about canceling that and cashing it out. The only problem is the reason I ended up with the whole life policy was I had insurance, life insurance through my employer. The employer did a relocation. I left the company and I had it converted to a whole life due to medical cancer diagnosis previously. So I couldn't qualify for any term life at the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you single?

[Caller]

No, married.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. All right. And what is your income?

[Caller]

My income is 50,000 per year. My husband is 150.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how old are you?

[Caller]

2, 44.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And do you guys have any nest egg built, any 401ks or anything like that?

[Caller]

Yeah, we have 1.5 in retirement, 500,000 liquid investments, and then our home is paid off. 1.5.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So if you had no life insurance and died, your husband can probably struggle through given that he's got two or $3 million and $150,000 income.

[Caller]

Yeah, we originally got it because the kids were really young at the time. But now five years later and they're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're self. My point is, you are self purpose of life Insurance is to replace lost income in the event someone is dependent upon your income. No one's dependent upon your income. If you die, your husband's got $3 million and $150,000 income. Did I miss something?

[Caller]

No, but he, I mean, I guess if that happened. I was previously staying at home, so he would then want to, you know, maybe make adjustments in his income, maybe not work, take care of the kids until they're grown.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but he's got $2 million.

[Caller]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I think he'll be okay.

[Caller]

We're only 44, so we still have to.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wasn't saying he was going to quit forever and I wasn't saying we were going to drain the account. But my point is that your little whole life insurance policies are relevant financially, mathematically. Agree. Agreed.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So don't get. Don't keep getting screwed by these people. Then cancel this thing.

[Caller]

Cancel it and then take the $800.

[Dave Ramsey]

And build wealth with it. You don't need term insurance. You don't need insurance. If he loses your $50,000 income, mathematically he's okay. I'm sure he'll cry, but mathematically he's okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. We would rather take that $792 a month and invest it in our. Yeah, in our stock.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, absolutely. You make a whole lot more money. If you had been doing it for the time you've been doing this, you'd have a lot more than 35,000. Agreed.

[Caller]

Agreed. And, well, at the time we didn't have this, you know, we didn't have that net worth.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know.

[Caller]

But over the last five years we've paid off our house and, you know, done others.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you've done a really, really good job, Mary. You gu. Great shape. You don't need this policy.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I'm saying. You understand why I'm saying that?

[Caller]

Yeah. Because we're self insuring with our investments now and kind of things have changed in terms of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so we have no need for.

[Caller]

Need for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just cancel it and put the $35,000 in a good investment and put the $800 a month into a good investment and quit getting screwed by these people. It's wonderful. It's a wonderful thing to get rid of these people.

[Ken Coleman]

I got nothing to add. I mean, you just have to realize the math on this and go, wait.

[Dave Ramsey]

So here's the thing. When you're 30 years old and you have no money and a bunch of debt and you have three little kids, you need term life insurance to cover the loss of your income because your family's dependent upon your income to eat. But fast forward 20 years and you're 53 years old and you have $2 million in your 401k and your house is paid for and the kids are grown and gone. Your need for life insurance has gone away because you got out of debt and built wealth. Yeah. And so no one needs life insurance their whole life. Hello. That's why they call it whole life. You know why they call it whole life? Because they want a commission from you their whole life. Yeah, that's why they call it whole life, not because you need it for your whole life. You, if, if you need life insurance your whole life, it's because you did a crummy job of with money because you got none when you're old. You got a big pile of debt and no money saved, no investments when you're old because you didn't do a good job with money. And then you will need life insurance to bury you. And that's about it. But, but you know, the purpose of life insurance is to cover you, cover your family while you can't. As soon as you can quit buying it life, whether it's term life or whole life life, but certainly a whole lot.

[Ken Coleman]

This product is just nuts. 792 bucks a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And $35,000 is all its yield. I mean it's just horrible.

[Ken Coleman]

Terrible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just. Can you imagine? What would she. Yeah. Anyway. Yes, yes, yes. You, you did good, Mary. And then cancel the policy. Dalton in Detroit, Michigan. Hey Dalton, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

I'm in an interesting situation because mathematically this shouldn't work. And historically this shouldn't work. So I have a home, I've got about $190,000 equity and my wife were looking at buying a second home as a rental unit. So we go and to get a home equity line of credit, which. This doesn't make any sense to me, but the bank will give it to us at a 5.1% interest versus getting a mortgage on the second home. It would be a 6.25%. So typically your, your HELOCs or your home equity line of credits are going to be greater interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not necessarily, not, not over investment property because investment property is not as is more risk for the bank than your personal residence is for the bank.

[Caller]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

When they got your personal residence, they got you by the neck.

[Caller]

Yeah, that was my question is if I use a home equity line of Credit and then something happens to the rental home. Home. I don't want to lose my primary resident.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you will.

[Caller]

Versus if you mortgage, you will.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do.

[Caller]

You can only lose that property.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they can sue you for the deficit. You're personally. LLCs can't sign for a mortgage. You can put the Property in an LLC's name, but you're still liable for the stupid mortgage. And if the house doesn't sell for enough at foreclosure to cover the mortgage, they're going to sue you for the deficit 100% of the time. So they'll still come take your home. So overall, you know, that's the reasoning for these interest rates, which is, I guess why you called. But you're going to get something more than you called for, and that is don't do this deal. You don't have the money to buy a rental and you shouldn't buy one.

[Caller]

So the home we're looking at is about 75. Like there's three options and we have about 9,000 cash. Cash. It's in Detroit and the area that's being revitalized.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, you have 90, 000 in cash and the home is 75.

[Caller]

Right. But it's in the revitalization area of Detroit. And so typically it's been appreciating the area.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. Do you have to spend money on it after you buy it?

[Caller]

I'd have to spend about 15 to 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so why can't you just pay cash for it?

[Caller]

Because that is our, like, that's our nest egg for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, because of the risk.

[Caller]

Any repairs to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. So you're trying to ignore the fact there's risk by borrowing money, and instead you're adding risk by borrowing money.

[Caller]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is a form of financial denial. Denial is not just a river in Egypt, buddy. Yeah, you're trying to hide this from yourself and act like it didn't happen. Please don't buy this house. I can't stop him. He's gonna do it. Forget it.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Randy's in Missouri. Hi, Randy, how are you?

[Caller]

Oh, I'm absolutely peachy.

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Brandy, what's up?

[Caller]

I am trying to find the way with as much grace and kindness and love as possible to get my mother in law on her feet and out of the camper in our backyard yard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cousin Eddie's in the backyard and it's your mother in law. Wow. How long has she been there? Yeah, three years in a van down by the river. Oh my gosh. Wow. So how did this, how did this come about?

[Caller]

Well, we moved here from North Dakota in 21. We did the same thing. Spent three months in a camper on my mom's property, but were on top of employment and housing right away. And we're in a home in three months. We purchased our first home when we got five kids that we did it with too, by the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

So wait a minute, you spent time on her property?

[Caller]

No, my mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, your mom.

[Caller]

Okay, my mom. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a camper and yes, with five kids and yes.

[Caller]

But we're at my mom's place. She had them in the house half the time. They've got 20 acres, plenty of room to run around playing the pond.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you were there for how long?

[Caller]

Three months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And then you bought a place of your own and how did your mother in law end up on your place?

[Caller]

So she waited to follow us down because it was a single mom, only child situation with my husband and her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm.

[Caller]

And she was about a year and a half after did it, she was like, oh, I think I'll do that. Sounds like a good idea. It worked really well for you. She came down, was in the camp. Her, here she is. And I don't know how to broach the conversation at this point was not.

[Dave Ramsey]

With her, it's with your husband.

[Caller]

Yeah, I've. I've had that with him as well. And he had. He struggles there.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's the problem, not her. She's the symptom.

[Caller]

You know, he has a hard time telling his mom, hey, I love you, but it's time to. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Shocking.

[Caller]

There's been some.

[Dave Ramsey]

So basically this lady didn't really even ask permission to move on the property. She just kind of told y' all she was doing it?

[Caller]

No, no, no. It was a conversation. But we expected her to be quicker about it and do similar to what we did.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you have an agreement that she would be quicker about it now?

[Caller]

I mean, to be completely fair on our end of things. No.

[Dave Ramsey]

You want to come down? Put the camper back there. That's okay. And that was the whole discussion.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And no one's ever corrected her. So she actually. She actually doesn't think she's doing anything wrong.

[Caller]

I mean, I. I have. I lost my mind on her once. I said some not so nice things while I'm trying to go about it more politely this time.

[Ken Coleman]

How long ago was that?

[Caller]

A year and a half. Oh, no, no, no, wait. No, that wasn't a year half. I did that. No, it was a year and a half.

[Ken Coleman]

And your husband couldn't have been thrilled with that either.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, because he was there when I started it. He walked away and put his hands up.

[Ken Coleman]

So now you're a year and a half removed from.

[Dave Ramsey]

From.

[Ken Coleman]

You lost your mind on her. Number one, she didn't move. Number two, your husband didn't force the issue. And number three, you're more pissy now than you were then.

[Caller]

Actually, I'm less pissy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

I would. That's fast.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty heavy on the pissy category, but yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the. On the. On the pissy spectrum. But the. How old is she?

[Caller]

63.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, and she has no money.

[Caller]

Yeah.

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So what makes you think she can move and into it. Why do you think she can move into a sustainable situation when she has no money?

[Caller]

She's working kind of, I think. I mean, I know she works part time cleaning houses. And that's. That's part of my issue is. So I work at a middle school, I'm a paraprofessional, and over the summer, I'm home all summer and I was kind of tracking, like, how often are you leaving? What are you doing? And she's got cleaning jobs that she does, but it's not very much. I think max, 20 hours a week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I don't know how to broach with like. I don't know how to say it lovingly because I don't want to be gone.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're way up on the pissy spectrum, so you can't say anything. The problem. Yes, you are. There's nothing loving going to come out of your mouth. Mouth. So you. And besides that, it's not your job. It's your wimpy husband's job.

[Ken Coleman]

You enjoy. See, you enjoyed that too.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't do it because it won't work if you do it. No. There is nothing you can say or do that's going to work. The only thing that's going to work if you want her to move is for him to have a conversation that says, mom, I'm going to help you get a place and you're gonna have to get your hours up. And by the time Christmas gets here, you're gonna be hanging your stockings in another place or whatever it is. I don't care what the date is. But he needs to sit down with his mom. He needs to have a conversation. We were not planning to do this forever. And we need to look at a timeline where you. I'll help you get things going and let's figure out an apartment and let's get the camper sold or let's find you a little piece of ground and let's get your hours up so you have a sustainable life. She's not asking you all for money, is she?

[Caller]

No. And I've. Which one of my suggestions to him was, I think that we should ask her for rent.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. You don't want her to stay. No, don't ask people for rent. That will pay it.

[Caller]

Okay, okay, fair enough. My thing was after X amount of time of asking for rent, saying, okay, here's a lump sum.

[Ken Coleman]

You just wanted something that felt righteous in this whole deal, and so you don't want any.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not going to help you with that at all. I'm just going to be practical. And look, your husband has to handle this and he has to sit down and have a personal, quiet conversation with his mom. And if he doesn't have a backbone, he can run down to Walmart and pick one up on aisle three and sit down and go, mom, we got to get you a thing that's a better life for you than a trailer in my backyard. Now let's figure out where we can get you a place and let's figure out how many hours a month you got to work to get that done. And I'll help you with your budget. And even if he, you know, and I'll help you get the trailer sold so you got some money to move and so on, but you do not want the budget.

[Caller]

I'm sorry, she won't accept help with the budget. She knows what she's doing with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

She will. If your husband sits down and says, mom, if you don't do this, you have to leave anyway.

[Caller]

She has asked us for help and recommendations on things like what do I do with my car? And then when we give her legitimate Recommendations like slap some down. I have come up with lists of low income and senior housing, different apartments, and said, hey, here's some good options. Hey, here's some good options for this. Here's some good options for this.

[Dave Ramsey]

You haven't heard of everything I said.

[Caller]

I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

You came up with all these options. You are the Wicked Witch of the west in her eyes. She does not want anything to do with any suggestion that comes out of your mouth. You need to quit.

[Caller]

Stop.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to stop. Stop doing this. You're no help. You're a problem. You're not a help. Your husband, however, needs to take the list that you came up with and go sit with his mother without you around. You don't even need to be in the county when he does this, like four counties over at happy hour while he handles his mom. You cannot fix his. She ain't listening to you. She hadn't listened to you in a decade. I can promise, promise you she's had it with you like you've had it with her. This is not. You have no grounds for persuasion with this woman. She does not think you have her best interest at heart. You know why? Because you don't.

[Ken Coleman]

No. No, not at all. And we don't think you're a bad person. We just hear a person who's exhausted.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're over it.

[Ken Coleman]

You have none of those left to give. All right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The only way you're gonna fix this is install a backbone in your husband so baby boy deals with his mommy. Yeah. That's what's going to have to happen. The only thing you can do and then stand back and watch, and hopefully he'll wander over there and get it done. Probably not at the speed you would have. Yeah, but that's your only shot, Brandy. You can't come up with any more solutions.

[Ken Coleman]

This is a marriage problem. You and your hubs got to get together because you're a couple cocktails away from a Jerry Springer episode. And, you know, none of us are above it. But I think you were on your last nerve. And I get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's funny, though.

[Ken Coleman]

It's hilarious.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Goodness gracious. Yeah. Hey, by the way, that's a good recipe for everybody, regardless of how pissy you are. Okay. Or how far up the pissy spectrum you are, is how about you let do not fix the in laws. Let the blood relative of the in laws do the fixing and you stand back with suggestions way in the distance. Yeah. And don't let them even think the suggestion came from you. That's Always a good idea, Sam. Our scripture of the day, Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those that exist have been instituted by God. PJ o' Rourke said, giving money and power to the government is like giving whiskey and cars to teenage boys.

[Ken Coleman]

True statement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, it is. If you're buying or selling your home, it's a big deal. You will want an expert. Oh, yeah. Rates are coming down. It looks like boys and girls, you're going to want to see somebody in your corner if you're gonna list that house or sell that house, that is an expert in real estate. Not someone got their license three weeks ago and is your Aunt Sally. Bad idea. Bad idea. Yeah. Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust. Make your home a blessing, not a burden. You can compare agent profiles, interview them, choose the right one to work with among several that we have vetted for you. Find a local Ramsey Trust trusted real estate pro for free@ramsey solutions.com agent or click the link in the show notes. Kevin's in California. Hi, Kevin, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, how are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Yeah, I had a question. I'm. I got divorced a few years ago. I'm kind of. My spouse used to handle the finances from. Kind of a late bloomer financially. I'm going to be. I got about a year to go at my work before I'm eligible to retire and get a pension. And basically I would be making the same money with combination of the pension and my Social Security as I am making now.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 63.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're gonna retire at 64?

[Caller]

Yeah, I was hoping to. I mean, I might still do something else, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

I make about 66,000 in a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what are you gonna do with the rest of your life?

[Caller]

Well, I have. Gee, I didn't think of that. I would like to, you know, spend time with my. My kids and you know, do something. I mean, I definitely want to work or do something positive and just also be able to pay my bills. I do have a house. I owe 418,000 on it. It's worth about a million. Million. I have a $60,000 HELOC and a $10,000 credit cards. And my question is, when I retire, do you think it's okay if I pay off the HELOC and the credit cards with money from my IRA and 457 plan?

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is in there.

[Caller]

Combined. Let's see. Well, let's see. I have 136,000 in the 457 and 56,000 in a Vanguard IRA.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you only have $200,000. Yeah. Okay. All right. I would maybe want to work a couple more years and, and build that nest egg a little larger. It's a little scary small. Yeah. And, yeah, definitely. And I think during that time you need to pay off the heloc and during that time you need to pay off the credit card. Cut up the credit card tonight. But I would get on a written budget with a set goal of how much nest egg I could build in two years and be debt free. Because you've got another problem here. You've got a $418,000 mortgage and that is not something you want to carry into 90 years old. We need to have a plan also to get that mortgage paid down and off. It could be a five year plan or a six year plan, eight year plan or whatever. But you've got to develop some way to get rid of that mortgage because that thing's going to destabilize your retirement.

[Caller]

Yeah. I do have hopes of putting in a junior ADU in my bonus room. My brother is a contractor and he was going to do that for me. I would just have to pay for the materials, which we estimate would be about $10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What about selling the house and buying a $600,000 paid for house?

[Caller]

That's a thought.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And then you'd be debt free going into retirement.

[Caller]

Retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think I might go that direction rather than trying to look for a roommate. I don't really want to retire with a roommate. That's just. Oh, gross. That's how we started our lives in college. I don't want to end them that way. Yeah, I agree.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, man. Yeah, I, I think you've got to think the math part through a little more. And that's probably going to lead you to work a couple more years and pile up your nest egg. Clear. Clear the debts and then say, okay, when I retire, I'm going to sell the house. I'm going to move near the kids. Maybe you're not near them now. And into a $600,000 paid for property or whatever your equity is that you can get out of the house. But if you can go into retirement with three or four hundred thousand and a paid for house, who. That's a whole different sense of solid ground than you've got with a $418,000 mortgage. Mortgage. And a 200, 000 nest egg.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And I. And including that math, Dave's right. I would extend the amount of time working. But I'd also begin thinking about what does that next chapter look like? Because you said you still wanted to do something that's very normal. But I would be looking at what would be really enjoyable work that I could do after retiring from day job one and still make some decent money for the sole purposes of continuing to contribute to your retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. Casey's in Boise, Idaho. Hi Casey, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. I'm well. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I have a question for you. So my husband lives in Canada and I am here in the States. I am planning on moving there in the next few months. I'm trying to get a current job transfer with my company into a similar position so I can have an income when I move there. Thankfully we're in a position where he can support us. If not. And we've laid it all out worst case scenario where we can afford everything we want and still have $4,000 at the end of each month to put into savings. But what we're trying to decide to do right now is between renting and buying a home. So that's just kind of where we're at.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would rent for one year, rent for one year, get everything settled and stable and learn how to be married.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay, that's helpful. And yeah, and I have my house in Idaho too. And so we're planning on, on renting that out. Yeah, we hold on to that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You use that money to buy your house in a year.

[Caller]

Okay, okay, got it. That's helpful. Okay, perfect.

[Dave Ramsey]

See how all this feels? Very clean.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. And that was, that was kind of like my thoughts on it. And we've gone back and forth on, on everything on like, should we buy, should we rent? And we've, you know, played it all out and we're just like up in the air. Even a conversation we had 30 minutes ago, I think the.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you two?

[Caller]

I'm 32 and he's 30.

[Dave Ramsey]

Both first marriages.

[Caller]

Yes, both first marriages.

[Dave Ramsey]

It takes a year to get to know each other well enough to figure out which house to buy wisely.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It takes a. We always laugh and say it takes a year to know how close to your mother in law to buy.

[Caller]

Yeah, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that may not be the case. But I mean, that's a joke. But the point being you will, you will know stuff about each other and have insight into this relationship one year later that you do not have today.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. That's very helpful. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It'll cause you to pick a better house in a different. A different house.

[Ken Coleman]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Than you would pick today. And so there's actually a biblical standard for that. For those of you that are people of the book. In the Old Testament, when the Kings went out to war, if a person had been married, they were not allowed to go to war in the first year. They had to stay home and be a husband. They wouldn't let a manually wed go to war and take. Takes a year. Takes a year. So it's good stuff. Fun, fun, fun. Good for you. Sounds like a good, exciting, exciting adventure you've gone into. And it all sounds positive and good and upbeat. That's fun stuff. Fun stuff. But if you can. Because if you buy a house with your boyfriend, which is who you are right after you got married versus your husband of a year year, it's a different conversation. Right. I mean, 20 minutes after you're married, it's a boyfriend. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You got to figure out how. What we're bringing into this thing. The other thing we didn't really hit on is we caution people about being long distance landlords. And now you're talking about in another country.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So that having a house in Idaho while you're living in Canada just creates a. A bit of an onion there that could unravel in a not so fun way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And it just puts more pressure on a brand new man. Marriage. Yeah. That's what I meant by cleanliness. It's just crisp and clean. I like it. There's a very. I just like things simple. That, that's the people that build wealth, they keep things clean, very focused, very simple. It's not. Everything's not disorganized and chaotic and bifurcated and everything else. There we go. Good show, Ken. Well done. Thank you, sir. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.