Money Is a Tool To Create a Life You Love

Summary

Podcast Title: The Ramsey Show
Host/Author: Ramsey Network
Episode: Money Is a Tool To Create a Life You Love
Release Date: February 21, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, hosts Rachel Cruz and George Camel delve into various financial dilemmas posed by listeners. Centered around the theme "Money Is a Tool To Create a Life You Love," the discussion underscores the importance of strategic financial planning to achieve personal and familial well-being. The episode features a series of caller interactions, expert advice, and insightful commentary aimed at empowering listeners to make informed financial decisions.

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Caller Highlights and Key Discussions

1. Choosing Between High Deductible and Traditional Health Plans

Caller: Marissa from St. Louis
Timestamp: [00:56] - [04:07]

Marissa and her husband, navigating Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6, seek advice on selecting between a high deductible health plan (HDHP) and a traditional health insurance plan after having their third child.

• Main Points:

  • Health Considerations: Since the family is generally healthy, but with past medical expenses (e.g., tube placements for children).
  • Financial Impact: Marissa's husband chose an HDHP for its lower premiums and the benefits of a Health Savings Account (HSA), which offers triple tax advantages and serves as a retirement tool.
  • Emergency Fund: The family's emergency fund stands at $17,000, with plans to increase it to $25,000, ensuring coverage against the out-of-pocket maximum of $16,000.

• Notable Quote:

  "The main thing is you got good coverage... And do I have good care with the networks that I've chosen?" — George Camel [02:28]

Advice Given: The hosts recommend evaluating past healthcare expenditures, premiums, deductibles, and out-of-pocket max to make an informed decision. They emphasize the importance of adequate coverage and the peace of mind that comes with knowing the financial safety net is in place.

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2. Managing Early Withdrawal from an Annuity

Caller: Holly from San Antonio
Timestamp: [04:07] - [08:15]

Holly, a 58-year-old listener on Baby Steps 5 and 6, grapples with the dilemma of early withdrawal from an annuity to reallocate funds into mutual funds or wait until age 59½ to avoid penalties.

• Main Points:

  • Annuity Details: Holly has $27,000 in an annuity, with a 10% penalty for early withdrawal, amounting to $2,700.
  • Investment Strategy: She has maximized her Roth IRA contributions and invests 15% monthly in mutual funds.
  • Future Plans: Holly aims to retire at 65 and expects her Health Savings Account (HSA) to grow if left invested.

• Notable Quotes:

  "Annuities make sense for almost nobody." — Rachel Cruz [06:01]
  "I wouldn't let my foot off the gas for sure." — Host [06:34]

Advice Given: The hosts advise Holly to wait until she can withdraw from the annuity without penalty, given that her current interest from the annuity is negligible. They discourage the use of annuities due to poor returns and high fees, recommending instead to invest in mutual funds where her money can grow more effectively.

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3. Emotional Guilt Over Using Child Support Funds

Caller: Sarah from Riverside, California
Timestamp: [08:37] - [19:17]

Sarah seeks guidance on the emotional burden of using child support money accrued from an abusive relationship to pay off debt and support her family.

• Main Points:

  • Debt-Free Status: Sarah and her husband recently completed Baby Step 2, becoming debt-free except for their mortgage.
  • Child Support Funds: They have $4,000 left that they initially vowed not to use. Due to financial hardships, they accessed $4,000 to cover essential expenses.
  • Emotional Struggle: Sarah feels guilty about using the funds, viewing them as "not their money" due to the circumstances of their acquisition.

• Notable Quotes:

  "It's about setting up my son to have a life where he understands money doesn't have to walk through this debt-free journey." — Sarah [14:35]
  "We're setting up a life where we have control over our money." — Host [17:57]

Advice Given: The hosts reassure Sarah that using the child support funds was appropriate and necessary to care for her son. They encourage her to view the funds as tools to build a better future for her child rather than sources of guilt. Additionally, they suggest allocating the remaining funds towards educational expenses, such as a car or a 529 plan, to honor the intent behind the financial support.

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4. Deciding to Pay Off a Mortgage vs. Purchasing a New Vehicle

Caller: Zach from Albany, New York
Timestamp: [21:18] - [31:50]

Zach and his wife, who are progressing through Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6, debate whether to allocate their brokerage savings towards paying off their mortgage or buying a new vehicle to accommodate their growing family.

• Main Points:

  • Financial Status:
    • Income: Combined income of approximately $315,000.
    • Mortgage: $186,000 remaining.
    • Brokerage Account: $80,000 intended for land, now redirected towards the mortgage or a new SUV.
  • Vehicle Needs: Considering a used GMC Yukon costing between $50,000-$60,000 to accommodate a second baby.
  • Tax Considerations: Potential tax implications from withdrawing brokerage funds.

• Notable Quotes:

  "Lifestyle creep starts to play in." — Rachel Cruz [23:50]
  "You're baby steps millionaires." — Host [29:21]

Advice Given: The hosts affirm that both options are viable given Zach's substantial household income and financial position. They recommend ensuring mutual agreement between partners to avoid lifestyle creep and emphasize prioritizing financial goals, such as mortgage elimination, while accommodating necessary family conveniences. The decision should align with the family's long-term financial strategy and immediate needs.

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5. Handling Credit Cards Opened for Minors

Caller: Alexis from Tennessee
Timestamp: [31:18] - [37:12]

Alexis confronts the issue of her husband opening credit cards in their children's names without prior discussion, raising concerns about financial infidelity and the potential impact on their children's credit scores.

• Main Points:

  • Unauthorized Accounts: The husband opened credit cards for their children under 12 as authorized users to help build their credit scores.
  • Financial Principles Conflict: Alexis feels this action contradicts their longstanding financial principles and undermines trust.
  • Potential Risks: Risk of debt accumulation affecting children's financial futures and creditworthiness.

• Notable Quotes:

  "It's not worth playing the game and let alone having any level of risk for another human being's financial well-being." — Rachel Cruz [33:04]
  "You're doing all the hard work." — Host [35:27]

Advice Given: The hosts caution against adding minors as authorized users on credit cards due to the potential for unintended debt and credit issues. They recommend focusing on teaching children money management skills rather than relying on credit-building strategies that can backfire. The advice includes maintaining open communication between spouses to prevent financial infidelity and ensuring that all financial decisions align with shared values and principles.

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6. Opting for Extravagant Vacation Amid Financial Steps

Caller: Jeff from Oklahoma City
Timestamp: [43:05] - [50:54]

Jeff, nearing completion of Baby Step 6, seeks confirmation on whether allocating $9,200 from his savings for a seven-day Caribbean vacation is financially prudent.

• Main Points:

  • Financial Position:
    • Household Income: $335,000 - $370,000.
    • Mortgage: $273,000 remaining on a $620,000 home.
    • Savings: $53,600 emergency fund.
    • Investments: $396,000 in IRA and $246,000 in 401(k).
  • Vacation Details: Seven-day, all-inclusive Caribbean trip costing $9,200, including upgrades and excursions.
  • Financial Priorities: Balancing luxury spending with debt repayment and future financial security.

• Notable Quotes:

  "Contentment is one of the hardest patterns to break." — Rachel Cruz [48:11]
  "Buy experiences with the people you love." — Rachel Cruz [48:11]

Advice Given: The hosts support Jeff's decision, highlighting that allocating a reasonable amount towards experiences, such as vacations, can enhance family happiness without derailing financial progress. They emphasize the importance of prioritizing spending on meaningful experiences over material possessions, aligning with the philosophy that money is a tool to create a fulfilling life. The hosts also commend Jeff's disciplined approach to budgeting and saving, encouraging him to continue balancing financial responsibilities with personal enjoyment.

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Expert Insights and Additional Content

Life Insurance Recommendations

Speaker: Dave Ramsey
Timestamp: [19:17] - [20:37]

Dave Ramsey emphasizes the critical importance of having adequate life insurance to protect one's family financially. He advises opting for level term life insurance, recommending coverage of 10 to 12 times one’s income. Ramsey warns against whole life insurance and promotes working with independent brokers like Jeff Zander to find the best term life options.

Investing Strategies and Education

Timestamp: [20:37] - [21:58]

Rachel Cruz promotes the "Investing Essentials" virtual event scheduled for March 4th and 5th, aimed at demystifying investment strategies and helping listeners maximize their investments. The event features in-depth discussions beyond the basic Baby Steps, including real estate portfolios and advanced investment analysis.

Promotions and Advertisements

Throughout the episode, hosts briefly mention sponsored content and promotions, such as Knockbox for organizing important documents, BetterHelp for online therapy, and endorsements for services like Zander Insurance and NetSuite by Oracle. They integrate these segments seamlessly without disrupting the flow of financial advice.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Rachel Cruz and George Camel provide comprehensive financial guidance tailored to diverse listener situations. From selecting health insurance plans and managing unexpected financial burdens to navigating complex family financial dynamics and making informed spending decisions, the hosts reinforce the idea that money should be leveraged to build a life of control, security, and happiness. By addressing real-life scenarios with empathy and practical advice, The Ramsey Show empowers listeners to take meaningful steps toward financial peace and prosperity.

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Notable Quotes Overview:

• George Camel:

  "The main thing is you got good coverage..." [02:28]

• Rachel Cruz:

  "Annuities make sense for almost nobody." [06:01]
  "Contentment is one of the hardest patterns to break." [48:11]

• Sarah:

  "We're setting up a life where he understands money doesn't have to walk through this debt-free journey." [14:35]

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions, providing actionable advice, and including impactful quotes to convey the depth of the financial topics addressed.

Transcript

[Rachel Cruz]

Foreign from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing experiences. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author George Camel and co host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. That's right, another podcast together. And so we are here to answer your question. So give us a call at 888-255-2225 and we'll be talking about your life and your money. So kicking us off this hour is Marissa in St. Louis. Hey, Marissa, welcome to the show.

[George Camel]

Hi. Happy to be on it. Love Smart Money Happy Hour.

[Rachel Cruz]

Thank you. You've got your two favorite hosts. Then plan it.

[George Camel]

Right. My question is, should we get a high deductible high plan or a traditional health insurance plan? My husband and I are on baby steps. 4, 5, 6, and we just had our third baby in November.

[Rachel Cruz]

Aw. Congratulations. So exciting.

[George Camel]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Are you guys relatively healthy people, would you say?

[George Camel]

For the most part, yes. Our two older kids have both. Both had to have tubes in their ears twice, so that's not fun expense to have to pay. But other than that, we're mostly healthy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Because I feel like for me, George, that's kind of how we've decided it.

[Caller]

Overall of, like, health of the family.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the way we've. We've dictated it. I don't know. There's kind of.

[Caller]

Yeah, there's kind of like a spectrum, almost a bell curve, if you think about it. And you go right, is if there's a ton of health issues in the family, the high deductible health plan could be good because you'll hit your out of pocket max and it's gonna be 100% covered. And if there's very little health issues in the family, it could also be good. And if you're somewhere in between, you might want to go with a traditional plan. Now, I have chosen to go with the high deductible health plan. I, I love the low premium. You guys are in baby steps. 4, 5, 6. You can take on a little more risk from the insurance company by having that higher deductible. And I love the fact that you get the high, the health savings account with many of these high deductible health plans. And that's a really cool health savings tool, but also kind of a life hack retirement option as well, because you can invest inside of that and it's triple tax advantage. So I'm just a big fan of the high deductible health plan. But again, it's a very personal decision based on the health of your family.

[Rachel Cruz]

Have you guys priced out both Marissa?

[George Camel]

Yes, we have. And the reason why we're going through all this is because with the third kid, we decided I wasn't going back to work. And so we're going from everyone being on my health insurance plan to now all of us being on my husband.

[Caller]

Got it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And what would it, what would be the out of pocket max on his plan now for the whole family?

[George Camel]

Oh, gosh, I believe it is 16,000.

[Caller]

16,000. Okay. And you have, how much do you have in the emergency fund?

[George Camel]

We currently have 17,000, but with me not going back to work, we're about to up it to 25,000.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think that'll give you some peace. And again, you can price it out. You can even talk to, you know, Healthcare Insurance Pro through RamseySolutions.com to help you kind of navigate some of this. And you can crunch the numbers. I personally wouldn't burn too many brain calories over it. You can kind of look at what you guys have spent on health care in the past, what the premiums are, what the deductibles are, the out of pocket max. Those are really the main things you want to look at to decide. But the main thing is you got good coverage. You know what the in network care is and you're not going outside of that. And do I have good care with the network s that I've chosen? And so when it comes to the Ramsey plan, I go, what's the cheapest option I can pay for that still covers my family? Because really you want for the big catastrophic stuff.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[Caller]

Little ankle biter stuff. I'm like, whatever.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, because, yeah, you got three kids, so you're going to be going, you know, you're going to go to the pediatrician during the winter probably one or two times.

[Caller]

But if you're getting, you know, tubes and surgeries, that's where you want to go. All right, I want to know this is my max out of pocket.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, exactly.

[Caller]

That gives me some peace knowing that's in the emergency fund. That's a worst case scenario.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good to go. All right, let's go to Holly in San Antonio. Hey, Holly, welcome to the show.

[George Camel]

Hey, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[George Camel]

Well, I got started with you guys late. I am debt free now with the exception of my mortgage. I didn't start investing until about age 55. I'm 58 and a half now. I fully maxed out my Roth as much as I can. I have another mutual fund investment that I put my 15% in every month. But what I have is years ago I got into an annuity and I had about 27,000 sitting there. I stopped contributing to that and started contributing more to my mutuals in the Roth and everything. My question is, I have. If I pull it out early, so basically a year early, there's a 10% penalty on that. Would it be valuable for me to just pull that out now, roll that into my mutual funds, or should I wait for a year and then pull it out when I hit that? 59 and a half?

[Caller]

What does the 10% penalty amount to? What's the dollar amount?

[George Camel]

I have about 27,000 in there, so it's about $2,700.

[Caller]

Okay. And what would you pay to keep it going for the next year until you can cash it out without penalty?

[George Camel]

It's nothing. I'm just, I'm not putting anything into it or anything at all. It's just sitting there.

[Caller]

Okay, then. I mean, I'm doing the math on this going alright. I could pony up 2700 or just leave it for a year. That's not a long amount of time at this stage of the game. So it might just be worth waiting.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is it a veritable. What type of annuity is it, Holly? Like a variable or a fix?

[George Camel]

I got to be honest. I believe so. It's been sitting there. It's not earning anything at all.

[Rachel Cruz]

Totally. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah. They do not have good returns. And I'm sorry that you even fell into this trap. Annuities make sense for almost nobody. And the only one that would even be okay in the Ramsey world if you really wanted to do it is a variable annuity. But even then you're better off investing. These are used to prey upon people who are scared of the stock market, who want the stability, but they don't realize they're missing out. And there is actually more risk in missing out on the returns. And so I would just let it sit, you know, the damage is done. You're going to be okay. Do you have a good nest egg? Are you going to be able to retire when you want to?

[George Camel]

You know, I would probably, you know, I would love to retire at 65, but I'm also the mindset that if I'm still doing good and enjoying what I do, I'm just going to keep going, so.

[Caller]

Absolutely, yeah, that's Great.

[George Camel]

I'm working on building as much as I can. I mean I'll get a teacher pension as well, so that'll help. But I want to work as long as I can to build it up as much as I can.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

If you continue to max out retirement accounts from, you know, you said you're 58 and a half for the next seven years or so. Well, you're also, your investments are going to double in that amount of time if it gets an average 10% rate of return. So you should be hopefully in good shape with pension and everything you've got going on. But I wouldn't let my foot off the gas for sure.

[George Camel]

No, absolutely not. But I, I thank you guys for all your help because you, you've helped get me to this spot and I can't thank you enough.

[Caller]

Oh, that means the world. You did all the hard work.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. You, you did it. So. Yeah, for sure. Wait a year so you don't to pay that 10%. But then I would take it out and invest in like George said, kind of that, that seven year mark is always just an easy math Holly too. If you're like. Okay. Because if you, yeah. If you pulled out and put it in a mutual fund, you know you're going to get, you know, 55 grand or so.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know, just sitting way more than.

[Caller]

You have in the annuity.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, tons. I mean, it's crazy.

[Caller]

So these annuities, Rachel, they're being peddled more.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, it's because of the advisors.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And it's because of the fear element that people are. I mean, and especially after an election year when the housing market, when the housing market even feels like, oh my gosh, it just, everything just feels big and scary out there and it's feels safer to put your money in something like an annuity because you don't have the risk of everything. But yet your, your money's just, it's not making the return it could.

[Caller]

And they're so expensive. The amount of fees and commissions they make a lot.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Caller]

The financial, I mean, it's why they push whole life and annuities instead of telling you, hey, just go invest in your 401k. You'll be, they, they gotta make their money. And so I don't like these quote unquote wealth strategists and advisors that are really just insurance salespeople.

[Rachel Cruz]

George.

[Caller]

Sorry, Rachel.

[Rachel Cruz]

Coming in hot today.

[Caller]

Coming in hot with high deductible health care plans and annuities. It's a hot show.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's A crazy show out there. This is the Ramsey show. You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family. Now you need an easy way to make sure your important financial documents are as organized as the rest of your house. Well, good news, Knockbox, that's N O K box, as in next of kin box, is a complete system that helps you be sure that you leave happy memories, not a mess when you pass away. Knockbox is a simple way to organize important paper and digital documents, IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, accounts and other personal history in one manageable place. Your family will feel your love and every detail you take care of. So start taking care of [e-mail] Ramsey a well organized legacy is a gift to your family. That's nokbox.com Ramsey welcome back. Going to the phones, we have Sarah in Riverside, California. Hi Sarah, welcome to the show.

[George Camel]

Hi. Thank you for having me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[George Camel]

So I have some guilt and pride around using child support money. So I was in an abusive relationship and by the grace of God, I was able to leave when my son was about three weeks old. I met my now husband when My son was 6 months old and he's now 12. My husband and I had sat and talked and said, we don't want any money, we don't want anything, we want nothing to do with him. Well, the judge made the decision that it's not our choice and it's not our money, it's for our son. So we were just putting all that money in an account. We had some debt and in 2021 I lost my job and we needed four walls so we dipped into that account. As Of January of 2025, we are officially done with Baby Step 2. We are completely debt free.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, congratulations.

[George Camel]

Thank you. It's very exciting. I'm really happy to be there. But I have about $4,000 from that child support money that we said we'd never use. And I'm wondering if I should just pay it back like a debt and just keep going. Like if we were on baby step two or. The connotation of the child support money in the first place just kills me and I don't know what to do about it.

[Rachel Cruz]

So. So this, this guilt, Sarah, I'm just double checking that the facts are correct. You didn't use this money immorally. It was more of a conviction that you personally had with it because of who it came from. And you just. The thought of using it just feels gross. And you had to use it at One point. But, but from a legal standpoint, you use it exactly how anyone else would use it. Right. To help run the household because you're, you're taking care of a child and that other parent is helping with that. Correct?

[George Camel]

Exactly.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And what was the court order, how much and for how long?

[George Camel]

It was originally, it was until he was 18 and it was supposed to be $430. The only money that I've actually seen from that is the COVID money. I was able to get his Covid check. I didn't know that it was coming. My husband adopted our son when he was four years old. Everything finalized. So that's when the child support stopped. But there's so much arrears that, I mean, I will still randomly get like a $12 check.

[Caller]

Over. Essentially you're not getting future payments. You just have this kind of savings sitting here and you feel like, I don't want to, I don't want to touch this money. It feels weird.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. How much is in that account?

[George Camel]

In the account right now is 2000 and I used four of it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Four of it. And what are you going to plan? What are you going to do with it eventually? Are you going to give it to him when he's 18 or help pay for a car when he's 16 or college or what do you think?

[George Camel]

That's what we were thinking, just a car or something like that. Like I said, my son, my husband's been around since my son was six months old. So my son doesn't know. He doesn't know any different as of right now. And eventually we're going to tell him. I mean, we have to tell him, but we're just not there yet. And he's not emotionally mature enough to be there yet.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure. Okay, so what I'll speak to, I'll speak to the money side of it, Sarah, from the sense that, no, this is not a debt that you need to pay. I mean, you use the money essentially how the system works and you know, you use it exactly appropriately. And I know that doesn't sit well with you because of who it's coming from. And that, that totally makes sense to me. But I think kind of the, the quote unquote debt going forward, which is not a debt, but is to say, okay, how can we best set up my son to have a life where he, from a financial standpoint, understands, understands money doesn't have to walk through this debt free journey. And we're setting him up in order to do that. And that looks like things like Maybe college or, um, helping with his first car. You know what. Whatever that may look like for you guys and for me, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't hold on to that emotional $4,000 anymore because I. I think you. I think you need to release that. But I think going forward, the motivation now is to pass a great legacy onto your son. Right. Regardless of $4,000 or not. So I under. I totally understand how that can feel like, oh, my gosh, we use this money. And it feels so gross, and I hate it because I don't. He's a terrible person. But on. But, you know, you. You guys were in a pinch at the time, and that's what that money's for, is to help take care of your son. And that's what you guys did. So I. I would. I would let go of that because emotionally, I think it. I think it is holding on to you so deeply.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So in the filing cabinet of your brain, we need to refile this. Instead of child support money from an abusive, awful relationship, this is changing my family tree money to set up my child for a better life than the one I experienced.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And Sarah, too, you know, give yourself a little bit of grace. You know, if this was a $60,000, you know, thing or something, and you're like, oh, my gosh, she was supposed to use it for a down payment on a house or. You know what I mean? Like a mag. Like, I feel like, like, like a lot of this magnitude and weight from a dollar standpoint. I feel like we could go at it a different way because I could see, you know, the more money it is, the more weight it feels. Right. So. Yeah. So with this 4000. Yeah. I want you. I want you to release it. For you, Sarah, again, it's not about the dollars at that point. To me, it's. It's that emotional attachment that's still there to him, and I want that release from you. So whatever that looks like with your own word.

[Caller]

I would have a goal for this money. Instead of letting it just sit there, it's only going to make. Reopen the wound. So I would put it in a 529 plan for college. I would put it toward. In a savings account for a car fund one day, because that day is going to come. And these things cost money, and it's part of the deal. And, you know, it's a shared burden because that person was a parent, and this is what the court ordered. And so I would. It's hard to just say release the guilt, Sarah, you're doing great. But that's the truth of it. It's that hard and it's that simple to just go, all right, it happened. That was the past. And I'm going to make a better future for my kid now. And it sounds like you guys are thriving and this child is so lucky to have you two.

[George Camel]

Yeah, we're. He's definitely blessed. My husband is literally a godsend, and he took him on like his own. And like I said, nobody, nobody knows. There's a couple people like family knows, but he doesn't know. And my husband stepped up in more ways than I could ever even pray for.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, and give yourself to so much credit, Sarah, because we, we talk to so many people on this show and women specifically, that are in, in a situation and they just, they don't feel like there's a way out. And whether from its financial type abuse, where, you know, a husband's withholding and not allowing controlling. Yes to physical, emotional. I mean, you know, you can fill in the gaps. The spectrum is wide and to break that cycle is so, so difficult. And as Dr. John DeLoney says, who works with, you know, so, so many people in this area says that there's. It's rare to have someone actually break it. So when you do, it is a.

[Caller]

It is a something to be celebrated.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's an. Applause. I mean, it really is, Sarah. So, I mean, I, I just commend you for that. I know that was 12 years ago, but that is, that's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Yeah. George, when we, you know, think about part of the baby steps and what she said, I loved because, yeah, it's baby step, you know, they're past baby step two. They're moving on for that fully funded emergency fund and so forth. And there, there is something so freeing from the sense of, yes, the dollars and cents are there. Right? We're being wise with our actual tactical money. That's, you know, very important. But it's so much bigger than that. It is like the place where money sits in our lives, the value of which we give it. And when you are out of debt, you have that emergency fund. It's, you don't have to be obsessed with it, you don't have to stress about it because you're setting yourself up so well. And what that speaks to your kids and a household is everything. Like, to me, that is, that's part of family, changing the family tree. It's not just from a, from a monetary standpoint, but from an emotional standpoint that Money doesn't have to be a stress point in our lives because we have control over it.

[Caller]

Yeah. And there's a lot of belief there. People think there's some sort of like financial DNA that you're born with because of the environment and place and parents. But we're proving it with Sarah that you can break chains. You might be the first one in your family to become debt free, to create a better life for your kid, for your kid to go to college debt free, for you, to have a home that you own, free and clear, for you to become a millionaire. And it's something you get to choose. And it's a daily choice and it's one of the hardest patterns to break because of all the shame and guilt from the past. And your belief system is so tied up and you talk about this and know yourself, know your money, the different money classrooms you grew up in, it really shapes you and you have to really try to break all of the bad stuff to get to the good stuff.

[Rachel Cruz]

Totally. Yeah, yeah. And as parents, you know, whatever you can do. You know, we always say more is caught than taught. But from, again, that, that, that standpoint of money, we're going to get in control of our money because yes, from a monetary standpoint, we need to know where our money's going. We want to be debt free. We want to start, you know, investing and letting the math work for us, like all of that. But more importantly, realizing that money's a tool. It is a tool to create a life that you love. Like that's what it is. It is not good, it is not bad, it doesn't have morals. And so how can that lesson and where money is placed in your life and in your heart and your identity, what your kids see that speaks louder than words. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options. And they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can, too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282.

[Rachel Cruz]

Investing can be one of the areas of money that can be very overwhelming and confusing. And it's not something that you're going to just know everything about that world in a 60 second Instagram reel. And so if you really want to dive in to understand how to do this part of your money well, how to invest well, and how to make sure that you don't make any mistakes when it comes to this, because that can be very costly. Make sure to check out our Investing Essentials virtual event and it's going to teach you everything you need to know on how to get started with investing and how to maximize your investments. So it's happening March 4th and 5th. Tickets start at $199 and it's hosted by Dave Ramsey and George Camel.

[Caller]

Don't call it a comeback.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you guys, you guys have done this event before and it sold so well and people loved it because you guys are really diving into the tactical side of investing and like, hey, what does this really look like? And it's everything from, from stocks and mutual funds to retirement to real estate and all that.

[Caller]

Even beyond the baby steps. You know, we can only cover so much on this show and we kind of go surface level. But in this event, it is, you know, two and a half hour hours each night taking your questions, deep diving on this and Dave unpacking his actual real estate portfolio, how he analyzes investments. And so it's something he's never talked about on the show here and people loved it last year. So we're bringing it back. Can't call it a comeback, but it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is kind of, kind of like a comeback. So get your tickets [e-mail] events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, let's go to the phones. And we have Zach in Albany, New York. Hi, Zach. Welcome to the show.

[George Camel]

Hey, guys, how are you? Thanks for having me on the show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[George Camel]

So my wife and I are having a debate. We're on Baby Steps four, five and six. And we're having a debate as to whether pay our house off or to buy a new vehicle.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, so tell me about the car. What car do you want to replace?

[George Camel]

We want to replace her car. It's a smaller SUV and it gets a little crammed with the baby seat in there. And we may be expecting a second one. So she would like to upgrade in vehicle so we're not crammed into her car.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So it's more of a. More of a convenience upgrade, if you will. Not that the car is falling apart and we have to replace it. So not urgent, but more just out of like. Yeah, the convenience of stupid question.

[Caller]

Could you get like a slimmer baby seat and solve all of this?

[George Camel]

I don't know if they make those, but I guess I could look.

[Caller]

Oh, they do. I've done my baby seat research, my friend. But anyways, let's talk more about this. What is that car gonna cost? This she wants.

[George Camel]

She's looking at a GMC Yukon. We would buy used, not new.

[Caller]

How big is your baby, man?

[George Camel]

What's that?

[Caller]

How big is your baby that you need a Yukon?

[George Camel]

Well, we already have one and we would like that. You know, we may have maybe having a second one soon. So just, just comfort, you know.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

It would be in the price range of like.

[Rachel Cruz]

Be nice. 50,000?

[George Camel]

Yeah, 50 to 60,000. We are on baby steps four, five and six. We are baby steps millionaires.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much you guys make a year?

[George Camel]

We make. We made 290 this year and we're on track to make about 315. This incredible.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good for you guys. Good for you guys.

[Caller]

What's left on the mortgage?

[George Camel]

The mortgage is 186 and we would be paying cash from a brokerage account that's non retirement that we've been saving up for land. But we put a. A kibosh on that idea since we may be having a second baby now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, okay.

[Caller]

So much in there.

[Rachel Cruz]

Priorities have shifted. Yeah. How much is in the brokerage account?

[George Camel]

About 80,000.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

So either way we're not going to pay off the house with this lump sum. But you're saying should we take that 80 and put it toward the mortgage or toward the car?

[George Camel]

Correct. So my thought was I'm more of the saver. My wife's a little bit more of the spender. My thought was if we took the entire brokerage account, put it on the house, we could pay it off in about a year and a half and then take the Mortgage payment and everything else and save up for a car.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. I mean, so yeah, either way, Zach, let me say this. Routes A or B would work. Okay? So I always like to find, I don't know, road C. Like, is there like a third option in there? That feels. That feels good to both of you. Meaning you're running the numbers in the math. You're seeing. Oh my gosh, if we put 80 grand towards this house, you know, you're putting it towards the principal. Like, you're not gonna. Like, you're seeing the math. Like, really, you know, it's on your side majorly in that way, Zach. So that totally makes sense. So I'm. I'm just wondering if, you know, you guys don't have a second kid. And I think what you both need to say, because you haven't really said it on this call, and I think I just need to hear it from you that you guys do not need this car. That people function with two babies and Camrys all the time. And is it squished? Absolutely. But, like, you guys would be. Okay, can we just. Can we say that out loud?

[George Camel]

I a hundred percent agree. I. I'm trying to be a good husband and do right by my wife.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because I am the money nerd making.

[George Camel]

And I know this is something she wants.

[Rachel Cruz]

I hear you. I hear you.

[George Camel]

Hard for our money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Totally. No, no, I hear you. And the car is not bad. Getting in. Getting a Yukon is not bad, Zach. At all. But does. But I. I want to make sure. Because this is where lifestyle creep a little bit starts to play in. And I think if you both said yes, we do not need this. Like, we would be fine. We could have two babies in the car that we have now. It's a small suv. We would be fine. But I would love a. I would love a great suv. Like, that's what I would love. I would love it.

[Caller]

Rachel said what I said, just in a nicer way.

[Rachel Cruz]

No.

[Caller]

And America loves it.

[Rachel Cruz]

But I want her. I want her and I want you guys to be on the same page of why you're buying it. Because I don't want her to be like, no, no. It's like, I have to have this. Like, I can't. It's. It is just too. Everything is just too small. And I can't do it because if that starts to be the mindset, what's going to end up happening again? It's lifestyle creep. Your life just starts. You spend more and more and more and more and what we need versus what we want starts to really blur. So I think I would feel better if I knew, Zach, that both of you were like, yes, we do not need this car. We would like this car. Listen, Zach, I have a minivan. I would love a Yukon. Like, I get it. I would want one. I don't need one, but I would. I.

[George Camel]

The car.

[Rachel Cruz]

I would want one. One.

[Caller]

So, second caveat. She's not pregnant.

[George Camel]

Well, she is. We just haven't told anyone yet.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my God.

[Caller]

Such an honor. Okay, that changes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Aunt Ray Ray, we are the first to know the news because it was.

[Caller]

Kind of like, well, we might have one. Like, okay, well, might is different than she is pregnant. And so there is an actual timeline now of. All right, nine months from now. We would want a bigger car. So here's my. And this is coming from Mr. Frugality, who was like, I'm going to pay off the house before I upgrade my car. Now, we didn't have a kid then, so it's different, but I'm. I'm going, hey, let's cash out the brokerage. We're going to pay some taxes on it. Let's buy her and set a budget. $50,000. We're going to get her a Yukon. Whatever's left, we're going to throw at the house, and then we're going to be gun ho getting rid of this mortgage. Was that. Would that be a fair game plan?

[George Camel]

Because either way, yeah, that's a great. That's a great option.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

With your income, the house is paid off within a year or two, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. You guys are going to be fine, especially because of your income. Right. If you. If you guys were making 100 grand, I, I would slow all of this way down. But you say you're buying too much.

[Caller]

Car, but you guys make $300,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

I want my question answered, Zach. Do you think your wife does she will. She would she emotionally say, yes, this is a complete want. It's not like a need. Like, we absolutely have to have it.

[George Camel]

She acknowledges that it is a complete want.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's great.

[George Camel]

And like, we're. We're both. I mean, I'm more of the saver, but we're both pretty frugal.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so when she wants something, it's really not too often. And so I'm just trying to make that happen for her.

[Rachel Cruz]

Totally. No, I hear you. Yes. You're. You're a great husband, Zach. So, yeah, I would move forward. I would buy it. And again, especially that since you guys for sure are having to. And from an income standpoint, what you guys have left on the mortgage and all of it. I think, yeah, I think you guys will be in a great, a great.

[Caller]

Position and you guys are baby steps millionaires. So I'm just curious, are you going to buy new?

[Rachel Cruz]

No. He said, he said use. He said used.

[George Camel]

It would, it would be certified. Certified mileage.

[Caller]

Good move. Good move. Good man. Let someone else take that first hit on depreciation. Yeah, you guys are doing it by the book. I'm proud of you guys. There's no wrong answer here. But I would defer to the pregnant woman because I'm scared of them.

[George Camel]

Me too.

[Caller]

You don't want to mess with them, man. I'm just saying it's, it's a.

[Rachel Cruz]

The sensitive, sensitive line there. Huh?

[Caller]

And this is a very similar situation because my wife wanted the bougie mom SUV and it hurt my soul because I can do math but in life isn't math. She wanted the car. We saved up. We paid cash for it and she loves it and it's fine and it was her dream. I don't need to make everything my dream.

[Rachel Cruz]

I will say babies can make everything. Very emotional though. So as I'm glad that Zach's sticking to the facts and the numbers and the numbers look great. So position and we learned permission to spend. Zach.

[Caller]

A Yukon can hold two seven pound babies at least. Bare minimum.

[Rachel Cruz]

Bare minimum. And congrats. Zach. We're excited for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite. And you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com Ramsey.

[Rachel Cruz]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you are struggling with defaulted private student loans, Y Refi offers a great solution to get you back on track. For a low fixed rate and more flexibility, go to yrefi.com Ramsey today. That is the letter Y R E F. Y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Caller]

Today's question comes from Alexis in Tennessee. We recently received credit cards in the mail for my son and daughter who are both under the age of 12. When I showed them to my husband, he responded that he had taken them out in our children's names to help them establish a credit score before they became adults. We have followed your principles for years, so I was shocked that he did this without talking to me about it. How should I handle this situation? This feels like there's a, there's a tinge of financial infidelity here behind her back. Opened up credit cards and the kids names.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. And not. And not mention it. And the way that you're. When you said, you know, we've followed the principles from year for years, I'm assuming that means you guys are on the same page. You're talking about money. I mean, there's some couples that, you know, they don't know what the other one's doing. But if you are following a level of Ramsey and that means you are, you know, connected and you're talking about money. So the fact that he didn't bring it up, that feels, that feels very off to me. Very off.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And the fact he opened up credit cards in your kids names.

[Caller]

Well, I'm guessing he, it's in his name. They got cards with their names on it as authorized users.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Because if you take out a cr. Yeah. A line of credit for a child. Right. I mean you, you.

[Caller]

It's a trend because of these Tick Tock videos where they go, hey, parents, here's a life hack for you. Add your kids as authorized users and they can take your credit score when they're 18 and have great credit so they can go get some more debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Well, what we've heard too is people calling the show saying, yeah, my parents took out debt in my name to build up a good credit score and then they ended up destroyed the credit because they couldn't handle it. And so you're just like, oh, it's. Yeah. And it gets to be a fine line too, of identity theft. I'm like, if you're, you know what I mean? Like it's kind of to a point.

[Caller]

Of like there was no consent here.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, yeah, so it's. I don't like it, I don't like playing the game. And so. Yeah, but a lot of it is a TikTok trend.

[Caller]

Yeah, there's. We have an article here related to this. Parents are gaming their kids credit scores. And it's around the same idea of stories of people who had their parents add them as authorized users. There's some horror stories in there, there's some explanation, but it says many are taking advantage of these tools. A 2019 poll commissioned by CreditCards.com that's perfect. Eight percent of roughly 1500American parents surveyed said that at least one of their minor children had a credit card, presumably through authorized usership, because kids under 18 can't get their own card. And transunion data showed that nearly 700,000 22 to 24 year olds had authorized user accounts.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, dang. Yeah, so.

[Caller]

And here's the thing. I don't think these are terrible people. They're just well meaning parents who have fallen for the system who go, well, this is the path they got to have the credit score because otherwise how are they going to rent an apartment and how are they going to travel? And they can't book airlines with that. And I'm going, have you ever tried a different route? You don't need to do all this gyration to live your financial life.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. There's so much more freedom, you guys, when you're chasing the credit score. You can live life without a credit score. You can do everything you just said without a credit score. It is possible. You can even get a house through manual underwriting without a credit score. And so yeah, I think like you said, it's good intentions them going in saying, I'm trying to set my kids up, but you're falling right into the system that gets so many people, millions of people stuck and in that wheel of debt. And it's like it's not worth it. It's not worth playing the game and then let alone having any level of risk for another human being of their financial well being that if you screw this up, it doesn't just hurt you, it's hurting your kids then at that point, I mean, so it's just, it's a mess.

[Caller]

It is absolutely bonkers. And I cover this in my book Breaking Free from Broke. I have a whole chapter on credit scores, a whole chapter on credit cards. And I unpack how to live life outside of the system. And it's not as complicated or as difficult as people would have you believe.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Caller]

In fact, it's way more peaceful. It's way more simple. I don't have 16 cards to manage to try to get the rotating cash back rewards. I have a debit card and I use it and it has my money on it. And when that money's gone, it is gone.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know, it's funny, George, I feel like when things are less complicated, they feel less sophisticated. Right. Everyone's like, oh, but that's the smartest way. Yeah. Yeah. There's got to be so many other hoops to jump through. And you can live your life that way. Financially you can, but you're going to be exhausted. You're going to be exhausted again. With a system that is set up to screw you, like that's what it is. It's not there to free you and for you to be financially free. They want you in the system because they make so much money off of you. But when you exit out of the system and you're like, you know what? I'm gonna live with a deb, with a debit card, with cash. We're save up and pay for things. And we're not going to sit here and try to play the industry's games over and over and over and over and over and over. What is sophisticated is peace. It is. I'm like, there's just that level there that is. It is so much worth it than the mental dance and gymnastics that you have to play.

[Caller]

So here's the game. Here's a wild concept. What if, as a parent, you taught your kids how to manage money instead of managing debt? That's all a credit score is, is how well you've managed debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Doesn't reflect how much money you have in the bank. Doesn't reflect your income. It just reflects your relationship with the lender. And so that's, that's how I'm aiming with my kid. I'm going, they're not gonna. They're gonna look at people with credit scores and credit cards going, why are they doing all that work, dad? And I'm like, I don't know. America's. It's crazy. Lost our minds.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's crazy out there. Oh, man. Yeah. Parents don't take credit cards out and don't be an authorized user.

[Caller]

You follow our principles for years while you still clearly have credit cards. You don't get to pick and choose. This isn't a buffet.

[Rachel Cruz]

This isn't a buffet.

[Caller]

Get out of here.

[Rachel Cruz]

Get out of Here. All right, let's go to Shane in St. Paul. Hi, Shane. Welcome to the show.

[George Camel]

Thanks, Rachel, for taking my call. How are you today?

[Rachel Cruz]

We are doing great. Glad you called in. How can we help?

[George Camel]

Thank you. Well, I'm a relatively new listener. We're on baby step number two. And my question is, we have probably about $17,500 in credit card debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And a couple of other small loans. And we have some money set aside. And I was wondering, is there any way that you can deviate from that snowball plan?

[Rachel Cruz]

Tell me. Yeah. Why would you want to? What are the numbers you're seeing? Shanks. They usually comes down to numbers.

[George Camel]

Okay. Basically the biggest one we have is we have a credit card with a high interest rate that has a balance of about 10,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

What's the interest rate on that? It's like 18.5%, I think.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And then we have another credit card with the balance of 7,500, and that interest rate is 9.9%. And then we have a kind of like a small home improvement loan with a balance of like $350 that you have to pay off. And then I have a work loan that I got through my work with zero percent interest, and I have a balance of like $800 on that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And how much do you guys have saved?

[George Camel]

Well, we just got our taxes back, and so we have about 14,500.

[Rachel Cruz]

Amazing. Oh, my gosh.

[Caller]

So the math doesn't matter that much because you've just knocked out all the debts, but the last credit card in this scenario. Right.

[George Camel]

So I guess my question is, would it make sense to pay off that, the highest one, the $10,000 first, and then pay the two small loans and then whatever is left pay on that last credit card?

[Rachel Cruz]

No. I mean, listen, if you're doing the math, I understand what you're saying because of the interest rate and what we always talk about on this show, Shane, and what you're going to start to realize is that personal finance and winning with money is so much more about your behavior than it is about math. And so if we were all, you know, chasing math, we wouldn't be in debt in the first place. Right. So it's not a math problem. It really is us winning. And so the fact that you do have a bulk of money, which is absolutely amazing, what that does to me, that just that jump starts. I mean, tonight you could have that $800 paid off, that 350. I mean, those are just like ankle biters, right? You're Just like you just need to get in there and just get them done with and then to pay off a $7,500 credit card in full and it be completely done like, and knock.

[Caller]

The next debt down to probably around six grand, almost six grand to throw at the 10k debt. So you'd be down to about $4,000 left. So the 18% interest, the way you're going to attack this thing, it's not going to amount to much because you're.

[Rachel Cruz]

Not going to be in debt, Shane, that much longer. I mean, when you're looking from a math standpoint, you guys could take on extra jobs and get that paid off in two months.

[Caller]

You know, you throw a thousand bucks a month at this thing, it's gone in four months.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So it's, it's gonna be so quick that the math at that point doesn't matter. But I'm excited for you. You said you're a new caller, so I'm so glad that you're joining in.

[Caller]

And using that refund for good instead of a vacation because you're saved.

[Rachel Cruz]

Amen. Well done, Shane. Well done. Well, thanks to all the men and women in the booth making this show happen. George, thank you. Thanks to our great audience here in Nashville, Tennessee and thank you, America. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags in friendships and romantic relationships. Red flags, green flags, beige flags. Listen, it can be helpful to look for patterns or unsafe behaviors in potential relationships.

[George Camel]

But all those labels can distract from.

[Caller]

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[Rachel Cruz]

Solutions, it's The Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with best selling author and my co host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Hamill. And so give us a call at 888-255-2225 and we're answering your questions on life, money, relationships, the pursuit of happiness, anything and everything. So give us a call. To kick us off this hour we have Jeff in Oklahoma City. Hi, Jeff, welcome to the show.

[George Camel]

Hello, how are you today?

[Rachel Cruz]

We are doing great. How can we help?

[George Camel]

Well, my question is we are looking to take what I would consider an extravagant vacation this summer.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my favorite thing in the world. Jeff, that is called the right person.

[Caller]

She's gonna say yes.

[George Camel]

Well then let's just, let's just get the yes and move on. Basically kind of looking for confirmation that it's something that would be okay to do. So here I'll tell you a little bit of the history and then we'll get into the numbers. My wife and I were early to mid-40s. We've got three kids at home. One of them graduates next year and will have to report to school sometime summer of next year for sports. So this is kind of the last year to be able to take a family vacation and have that oldest one go with us. All in. We're looking at like $9200. It is seven days. Two days is travel. Okay. Oceanfront all inclusive resort and going to the Caribbean and about 4,000 of that 92 is.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh yeah.

[George Camel]

So getting out of the Midwest is horrible.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, it's terrible.

[George Camel]

And that includes, you know, vehicle rental when we get there, excursions, you know, going out to eat a little bit. Even though it is all inclusive, you know, trying some of the local food.

[Rachel Cruz]

You've done your due diligence, Jeff.

[Caller]

You have, you've travel plan like no one else.

[Rachel Cruz]

You have, you have detailed it out. Okay, so where are you guys financially? Do you guys have debt? Do you have savings?

[George Camel]

So this, I'll run through all the numbers here. Household income gross is 335 to 370 depending on bonuses, which you know, happens every year, so probably close closer to that 370 number. The only debt that we have is our house. We owe 273 on it. Purchased it in 2021, 3% fixed, bought it for 370. Valuation is 620.

[Caller]

How much in savings.

[George Camel]

Ira? We've got 396.

[Caller]

They're just your normal cash savings like emergency fund plus whatever.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh.

[George Camel]

So the emergency fund, we've got $53,600, which a six month emergency is 24. 5.

[Caller]

All right.

[George Camel]

Another savings account.

[Caller]

If this was the voice, I'd hit the buzzer, I'd spin my chair.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I want you to upgrade your room and spend a little bit more and go upstairs.

[Caller]

I'm a little miffed. You're only spending nine grand.

[Rachel Cruz]

I know. Go, go upgrade you and your wife to first class. Spend a little more. Jeff, I'm not kidding. Like you are 100%. Okay. And if anything, yet. You got some wiggle room. Jeff. I mean, yeah. Okay, that was fun. And your IRA, $396,000 is what you said. What do you. What do you guys have in your 401k?

[George Camel]

So in the knee trade account, we've got 27,500. 401k is horrible. But we're now putting 15% in, so it'll be caught up very quickly. 246 between the both of us. And then outside of the emergency fund of 53. Six, just in another savings account, we've got 53,000. And then, you know, around 15,000 in the bank account.

[Caller]

I've lost track of how much money you guys have. You have that much. You're doing great. Is your wife the same way as you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller]

Does she have fun?

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you have fun?

[George Camel]

You've got three kids, though.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You know, so we're always chasing them around.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure. I'm messing with Jeff. I mess with you.

[George Camel]

Yes. We don't live extravagant or anything. Vehicles are paid off. They are, you know, a few years older. But, you know, there's no sense in buying a new vehicle when you can get one a few years older. That's low miles for half the cost. So.

[Rachel Cruz]

Jeff, you're. You're a jewel of a human being.

[Caller]

You're my spirit animal. Jeff, I appreciate you.

[Rachel Cruz]

George wants to be you when he grows up. Is basically.

[Caller]

Can't wait a good seven years from now. This is what I have to look forward to. My wife convincing me.

[George Camel]

I'd much rather have more than 246 in the 401k.

[Rachel Cruz]

Jeff, I think y'all are gonna. Yeah, I think you will be totally fine. And I'm really excited for you. Jeff, I. I've talked about this a lot on the show because I think it was like one of these moments that I heard this, and I thought, that is so good. Arthur Brooks talks about there's five things you can do with money. Four will actually buy you happiness. Like your brain scientifically has a level of happiness in it. One thing you can do with money that does, has no happiness. The first one is to give, be generous. You actually can buy some happiness. Doing that, saving actually creates a level of happiness because there's progress being made. And in our psychology, it's good for us to see progress. There's one about buying your time back. So having someone mow the lawn, right. And you use that time to go.

[George Camel]

We, we do that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Hang with a friend. And then the fourth one, Jeff, you. The fourth thing, the fourth way to literally buy happiness is to buy experiences with the people you love. So that can be a great dinner out, that can be a vacation. So I'm saying all. Oh, and then the fifth thing that does not buy happiness is buying stuff. You get a temporary hit and then no long term happiness through that. So you are doing this very wisely. And this is something that you, we always say, you want to give, you want to save, you want to spend. And this is your spend. And I want you to spend it in this way because I think it's going to be such a fun week for you and your family. And yes, you have our full permission and you have my permission to upgrade you and your wife to first class. So just, just take that, take that little.

[Caller]

So tell your wife Rachel said we could. And then when you get back from the trip, everyone gets a thousand dollar shopping spree. So there we go.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, because then you're buying stuff. George, he's not going to get happiness.

[Caller]

I'm just saying I feel like the kids would really like you for that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, no, it's, it's great.

[George Camel]

The kids, I will say the kids do not want for anything, but they also have got reasonable expectations as well because we've tried to, you know, raise them to not want what everybody else has.

[Rachel Cruz]

So. Good.

[Caller]

You've raised some great kids. I'm not surprised they want to go on vacation with you guys at this stage of their life. That's the best part. You raise kids who like you.

[George Camel]

Yeah, well, you know, the, the oldest one, the 17 year old, you know, it depends on the day. But the other two, you know, they're under 12, so mom and dad are still pretty awesome.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's good. This is gonna be, this is gonna be so fun. And you know, I'm kind, I'm kind of messing with you. But honestly, one of the most powerful financial principles is contentment. And Jeff, you just sound like such a content guy. Like your priorities are so in line and when you live like no one else, we always say you get to live and give like no one else. And Jeff, they're gonna be living like no one else in the Caribbean with a paid for vacation, making great money and I mean, and just doing it. It's awesome.

[Caller]

And Jeff will be tracking it in his Excel spreadsheet.

[Rachel Cruz]

Jeff will be, he's the dad who.

[Caller]

Had the MapQuest printed out ready to go for the trip. Like, this is the dad I aspire to be.

[Rachel Cruz]

100%. I love it. Jeff's gonna know.

[Caller]

And they make such a great income. I am not worried for a second about their retirement.

[Rachel Cruz]

No. And it's $9,000, right? It's not 29,000 or something? You know, we're not, we're not talking about that.

[Caller]

So based on what he said, they're already baby steps. Millionaires are very close to it in their early 40s.

[Rachel Cruz]

Jeff, I really am. I'm so excited for you and your family. Enjoy that Caribbean vacation. It's going to be so fun.

[Caller]

Send us a picture when you come back.

[Rachel Cruz]

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[Caller]

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[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, guys. Hey, guys.

[Caller]

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[Rachel Cruz]

Well, if you are a business owner or you know someone who is, you know that running a business is hard. It's a lot of work. A lot of. A lot of energy goes into that. And as you look back at the challenges that, you know, you face when it comes to building a business the right way, Dave Ramsey really kind of took a moment and said, yeah, I. I've been through this journey and I want to put some of these principles and what I've learned about building a business into a book. And so he has new book out called build a business you love. You can pre order it now for 29.99 and get over $350 of free bonus items. My gosh. Which is early. Early access to the ebook and enhanced audiobook and instant access to the entree leadership hiring playbook. So you can order [e-mail] store or if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcasts, we'll put the link down in the description. All right, let's go to Claire in San Diego. Hi, Claire. Welcome to the show.

[George Camel]

Hi, guys. Thank you for having me on.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[George Camel]

So, my question surrounding dating and finances, I'm kind of looking for advice you have on dating, debt and things to think about for the future. I have a boyfriend who's a little older than me. He has a really stable job. He lives down here in San Diego, and we've been talking about moving forward in our relationship. Everything's really good. All our values align, our faith aligns. There's really good companionship. But it's come out that he has about 70k in debt. And just the background that I come from, I'm not sure how comfortable I am committing to taking on that debt with some of the habits I've seen. He wants to be in a better place with his finances, but he does like to shop and go out and do a lot of things. And he's put about four years to be able to pay off that debt, but I feel like it could maybe be a little sooner. I'm not sure if I have the full picture, so I'm wondering what kind of questions would be good to bring into a conversation? What things to look for, what actions need to be taken, or. Yeah, any advice you guys have.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right. It's a. Yeah, it's a great. It's a great question. Do you. This 70,000, was it. Do you feel like he hid that in any way and it's just come out recently, or was it a sense that you guys just kind of started talking about the subject and he just happened to say, oh, yeah, and I'm. Yeah, yeah, I've dead 70,000 worth. Like, was it more just so, yeah. Was it more secretive or was it. No, we just ended up talking about the subject and then he told me.

[George Camel]

No, it was more talking about the subject he had told me earlier in our dating relationship and just the timing of it. I didn't pry for numbers or anything. So now that we've been talking a little more seriously, I'm trying for numbers. And it's around 50k of student loans and then about 20 to 30 in car payments. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So, yeah, I mean, I always, you know, I always think when it comes to relationships and debt, it's not always the debt that scares me. I mean, if you guys ended up going long term, yeah, you would be helping pay the 70 grand off for sure if you guys got married. Um, but again, the debt, it's. I mean, couples have tackled more than that, you know, coming into a relationship. So I would not, not marry someone because of that personally.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

But it's more the value system kind of what you were speaking about earlier that can raise some red flags. So I'm trying to get Claire from you because knowing that opposites attract and that is so normal. Okay. So Winston would probably describe me the way you describe town, that she likes to shop and she likes to spend money, and Winston would save till the day is long, and that's all, you know. And, and so. So there's going to be savers, there's going to be spenders, there's going to be that. The person in the relationship that loves knowing every single number of everything. And they have Excel sheets and they have the Every Dollar app and they. I mean, they're doing everything possible where the other one's like, oh, yeah, we're on track, we're good. I don't need to know every single little detail. You know, that's the free spirit. So there. There is going to be a give and take in a personality tendency with money. So I'm trying to get a check from you. Is it just a different tendency and he just spins because he probably is more of a spender or do you feel like. No, it's. It's bigger than that. Like there's a problem. There's an issue here, and that's what I'm trying to. To gauge from you. What do you. What do you think?

[George Camel]

I think that's what I'm trying to figure out. I come from a family that's all favors, so I feel like I haven't really experienced the opposite of that. I feel like. I feel like it's a little bit sometimes, like, oh, that little instant gratification of I just got this little knickknack. But then sometimes it's experiences he takes. I mean, dating. He's taken me out to do some really fun things as well. So he has value on both of those things. And I'm just trying to figure out from him in a way that helps.

[Rachel Cruz]

You totally help me for a dating.

[George Camel]

Relationship what that habit is.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, for sure. So I think some questions I would ask is, is that value standpoint that you don't want to be having someone that's going into debt to do these things right. That you want the baselines covered, and that's, you know, a level of wisdom. And, you know, being out of debt, having an emergency fund, having savings, like, all of that, that is wisdom. And we want all of those first and foremost. And then if there's some extra that, yeah, we can spend on top of that. But making sure with him, like, hey, is living with debt in that lifestyle, you know, what does that look like for you? What's that value system? And if he really is like, oh, yeah, I don't want it. You know, I want to be able to get out, and I don't want to live with credit cards and debt and all of that. Then that's a. Then that's a. That's a checkpoint, right? It's like, okay, that's good. And then you can even ask them, because all spenders, I think, understanding our motivation, or I would say savers, too, understanding the motivation of why you do things gets to the heart of it. And so the motivation in that. And for spenders, you know, sometimes the motivation is fine. And it's like, yeah, it's just kind of a thing I wanted. I saved up. I have the cash for it. I'm not under some illusion that this purchase is somehow going to make me happy for the rest of my life. You know, I'm not. I'm not bought into this illusion of marketing and all of that. Like, I just wanted the thing, and it's great. But then sometimes, Claire, you know, as a spender and I can speak for myself, I ask my question a lot of, okay, Rachel, why are you buying this? And if I can be as honest as possible, it's like I'm kind of bored and I want some excitement and that's why I'm doing it. Or I always ask myself, if nobody sees this purchase, do I still want it? How much of my motivation of having and buying something is for other people, not even myself. Right. So getting to more the heart of the why behind it, I think may help you see either. Oh, yeah, that gives me some peace. If he can have some level of awareness of why. Because the way we spend our money always is going to tell a story about ourselves. Right. So under understanding that, or maybe Claire, you find out some things and you're like, that feels like a slippery slope. Right. So I think through some of those conversations will be interesting, but I will say for you, it's going to be a little bit difficult. So give him some grace because you are coming from. Like you said, you're a saver. You're raised by savers and you're like, I don't even know what this alien, which is a spender, looks like. Like, how do they function and are they okay? I mean, yeah, so give them some grace there. But I think have some discernment around it. I think is important.

[Caller]

Would he be willing to go through Financial Peace University with you and go, hey, I understand. Like, I grew up in a different context. I have, you know, I grew up learning about how to manage money, maybe something he just didn't have. And if he's willing to learn and willing to get on a plan, that's a green flag. But if he goes, nah, I'm good, I'm going to do my thing, that would be a red flag to pause moving forward in this relationship.

[George Camel]

Okay. Yeah. I brought it up once and it was not brushed off. I was like, oh, yeah, that would be cool. So maybe it's something I bring back up.

[Caller]

Okay. How much. Do you know how much he makes?

[George Camel]

He makes about 140 a year.

[Caller]

Okay. So he makes great money, which tells me in San Diego, though, in San Diego, it doesn't go as far.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I mean, it's.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I was just wondering, is this on fire? Does he need to get rid of the car yesterday? You know what, has he sort of had any sense of urgency when he talked to him? He has two cars.

[George Camel]

No, he has two cars. He has a. His family history doesn't seem crazy great with money from what I've seen. Yeah, it's kind of like a little bit of living in excess and you don't really have the means to do so.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yeah, that's a good observation.

[George Camel]

He's just kind of doing what he.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sees and what he knows.

[George Camel]

Yeah, him on that. The second car, he's said in the past, but it's something he could easily sell if he wanted to and not have to make the car payment.

[Caller]

He has two car payments and one of like it's just kind of toys for him.

[George Camel]

Exactly. Everyone's paid off, one's not. Yeah. So yeah, I mean it was just a toy.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean again, I'm not trying to defend him by any means because again, it could just be a mess, Claire. And you may be like, oh my gosh. But you know, like you said, he may be just doing what he has seen and doesn't know a difference. So then another, you know, bucket I would, I would put, not to vilify his family by any means, but to be like, hey, what are things that your family does with money that you like and what are things that you don't like? You know, and ask some open ended questions and then seek his humility. Is he willing to learn and do something different if he's stubborn in something in a way? You know, again, that's more of more of the yellow red flag. So there's some digging there. But just because he's a spender, Claire.

[Caller]

I hope he's willing to change because Claire is worth it.

[Rachel Cruz]

She is. You are worth it, Claire. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Rachel Cruz]

Going to the phones we have Paul in Washington D.C. hey Paul, welcome to the show.

[George Camel]

Hey, thanks guys. This is such an honor and you guys have been such a blessing to my wife and I as we got through Financial Peace University. So thank you so much.

[Rachel Cruz]

Amazing. Yes, absolutely. Well thanks for, thanks for doing it. Thanks for being a listener. How can we help?

[George Camel]

Yeah. So here's our situation. So my brother and sister in law surprised us by opening a 529 for our newborn son. And at first we were, yeah, at first we were appreciative but when we asked how it works since we didn't really know much about the logistics of 529, they revealed to us that we can't contribute since the 529 is under their name and that we would have to ask for permission, their permission for how the money is going to be later deployed. Now for us it doesn't really feel right going to my older brother to ask for money for my son's college, let alone getting their decisions for our son's education.

[Rachel Cruz]

100 this is Crazy Paul. Why, why would they do, why would they do that? Like I don't understand why they wouldn't just open it up in the child's name and then give you hand you guys over the account. Why do they want control over that?

[George Camel]

That's kind of a part of the question that we're talking about today is Number one understanding 05:29 also just more or less handling family logistics to this. Now just to add context, I Do work in a family business, typically for my brother. Right. Okay, so we're even now. We are planning on changing jobs eventually. Now of course we're thinking that we're creating a situation where the 529 almost creates a financial dependency on them that might create future tensions down the road. So ultimately we want to know your guys thoughts about family members opening 529 for their relatives, in this case nephew, and what you think we should do. So. Yeah, because we're trying to all these are great people. Right. These are our family. We love them. But we want to make sure that we're doing the. Doing the right thing too with setting up for our son so that he has the liberty and us as parents the responsibility to help him for college.

[Rachel Cruz]

100%.

[George Camel]

So yeah, that's our contact.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I mean, no, your line of thinking is. Is spot on. Again, I go back to. I. It's so interesting to me that they want that level of control because you can open up a 529 in a child's name and you give all the rights to the parents and then the parents just handle the account over there. Right. I mean like that, that, that does happen. Family members do that. So I don't understand why they still want control over it.

[George Camel]

Yeah, because we did have a conversation with them first, thanking them and we did ask them if they were able to switch it over from their name into our name so that we would just take control from there on out. Kind of like give the keys to the card to us. Which they declined that and they insisted that this was their gift and they wanted.

[Caller]

But are you telling me is your child the beneficiary on that account?

[George Camel]

Our child is the beneficiary.

[Caller]

Okay, got it. Because you said they opened it in their name and I went, wait, what are they putting themselves the beneficiary? But no, your child is the beneficiary, but they are the owner of the account. And that's the part that gives you pause.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So here's what I would do. I wouldn't count on it.

[Rachel Cruz]

I just want to accept it.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

You, they. Anyone can open an account for anyone. And so that's the thing is like you just go, hey, I'm going to ignore it if there's money there and they choose to give it to your son. Wonderful. But I would plan for your own child's college and act like this is gravy on top if it ever comes to fruition.

[George Camel]

Sure. Okay. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Ultimately.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Sorry, you go ahead first.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, well, yeah, I mean, it's. It's so, you know, it's Paul. Gosh, the strings attached elements. That's what I'm trying to get at is the element when it comes to families and giving gifts. Right. We talk to a lot of people on the show, and there's a fine line between enabling. Some people call and they're like, oh, my gosh, my sister still needs money because she can't hold a job. Am I enabling her or am I helping her? You know, like, that's the conversation. But when it's over here with just a gift and they say, yeah, we just. We want to be able to help our nephew, the healthiest way to do that is no strings attached, that I am giving this to you. I. I don't need control over that anymore. Because it's a gift, it is now yours. And because it's in your child's name, you as the parent should be responsible for that. Right. So your. You're knee jerking this, and you're exactly right. That gets very messy, especially if they are wanting a say over how he's going to use it when he's 18.

[Caller]

What happens if he goes to a college they don't like or gets a degree they disagree with now? It's awkward. So.

[Rachel Cruz]

And they're his parents.

[Caller]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. You can have multiple 529s in a child's name. So I would open one up that you guys control, and I would fund that. And if people want to gift money, have it funded in there. And if they want to put money in this account and they want to give it to your kid one day, that's great. But again, I wouldn't count on it. But I also wouldn't be like, I would let go of the resentment over this. And, you know, unless you think there's malicious intent, you know, it might just be them going, hey, we. We want control over this. If we dump the money in.

[George Camel]

I understand. Now, one other aspect to this is should we have a mature conversation with them and decline the 529 offering now? Just because I don't want this thing to turn into a mess later where it grows up to maybe a good size, which then they become resentful that they put in all this work and effort for their nephew.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[George Camel]

To have the parents later.

[Caller]

Well, here's the thing. You can change the beneficiary anytime. So if your kid doesn't use it or they have whatever kids, they have grandkids, other nephews, they want to change it to. That's their right as the owners of the account. And so it's nothing for you to decline if they offer it and you don't want it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. You wouldn't have a conversation, George, See this.

[Caller]

If it was my older brother, I'd be like, hey, man, this just feels.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I would sit down and have the conversation, Paul. I would. And just say, hey, yeah, this. This. It just. It's. It's. It's. I. And put it on you.

[Caller]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's not. It's not. Oh, well, you're doing this. I don't feel comfortable as Paul, the dad. Just. I don't feel. Yeah, I don't feel 100% comfortable because I don't know what the next 18 years is going to look like for my child. And I just want to be able to know that, number one, college is funded and that as parents, like, we're gonna be able to do that, and we're gonna do that on the side. And depending on what he wants to do with that money, I want us, as a family unit to be able to make those decisions together and not involve you guys in all of them. And so that's really what we're setting up for our family. Thank you so much for the offer. If you guys want to continue to put money in there or it just sits over there, that's totally fine. And, you know, maybe at 18, like, he may use it, he also may not. I don't want to tie my son to this either. So if you guys emotionally are great with it, have an empty hand and do it. Say exactly what George said that, you know, and if he doesn't end up using. In this account, you can actually move actually $35,000 over to a Roth IRA. There's an option there. Or move it to another child in the family. That's an option. But I want all of this just to be said out loud as we start this. And that's. That's what we're feeling and thinking, but thank you so much. I mean, it's so. That's so kind of you guys to even offer. But. But, yeah, but I'm not 100% comfortable with every element of that deal.

[George Camel]

Yeah, you guys are the best. This was extremely helpful and gave a lot of clarity to a hopefully not complicated family situation.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Thank you so much, guys.

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. Yeah, that's. That's an interesting one.

[Caller]

Yeah. I just. I want to know what's underneath all of this. Is there any kind of, like, sibling, you know, he's in a family business with his brother. And so there might be more to this that. That we can probably need to unpack in a therapy session versus the Ramsey show. But there might be more to this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, there could be. 100%. Yeah. I mean, we get.

[Caller]

But best case, it wasn't malicious. And they just go, well, we're funding it, so I feel like we should have a say. And that's okay to say. No, we're not.

[Rachel Cruz]

We're.

[Caller]

We're not comfortable.

[Rachel Cruz]

So weird, though, George, if you. If I couldn't imagine saying that to a niece or nephew, like, I'm funding.

[Caller]

This, like, my brother loves our daughter William and Lydia.

[Rachel Cruz]

But I want to say over what Lydia's gonna. I don't know. Like, that feels so. I don't know. That feels so odd to me.

[Caller]

Yeah. If my brother opened an account for my daughter and said, well, you don't get a say, and I get to control where this money gets used and how, I'd be like, no. Then we're. We're good.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean. Yeah. And especially a 529, because it's. It's for education. It's not like it's this big trust fund and it's like, hey, I want to make sure the 18 year old is like, semi mature before they get this money. But from a character standpoint, it can only be used for education. So I'm like, I don't know. There's not much you can, like, screw up there.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Unless Paul's. You know. I'm kidding. Paul. I was gonna say unless the brother is like, oh, Uncle Paul, you know, he's not good with money, but I think you are, Paul. So I just want to know.

[Caller]

We need the brother online to go, well, she's gonna. He's gonna go to a liberal arts college. I'm not gonna give you.

[Rachel Cruz]

We should start a new show, the Family Conflict Show.

[Caller]

Hey, Paul, we got your brother online. That would be amazing.

[Rachel Cruz]

The surprise.

[Caller]

Come on out.

[Rachel Cruz]

You are the uncle.

[Caller]

That's a little too Maury for me. Maury.

[George Camel]

Maury has.

[Rachel Cruz]

That has a little bit of that feel to it. Oh, man. Good times, Paul. I hope that helps. And I hope, like George said, that.

[Caller]

It'S open up your own five. Here's what I say, Rachel, go fund yourself. You like that? That's as edgy as I get on a family friendly show.

[Rachel Cruz]

You're crazy, George.

[Caller]

Go fund your own kids. 529. And not worry about what everyone else is doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, let's go to Savannah, Georgia and we've got Blake on the line. Hi Blake. Welcome to the show.

[George Camel]

Hey, thank you guys so much, man. I'm so excited to talk with you guys. Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, so glad you called. How can we help?

[George Camel]

Yeah, so I'm calling you guys today because I really need a little bit of guidance with, you know, this part of our lives. I've been married for seven years. We got a daughter, she's about five years old. And we were living as missionaries and in South America. And unfortunately we had to come off the field around July last year. And so we've been readjusting to life here in the States which when we were gone and came back to the states, we were kind of blown away at some of the prices because they weren't the same as they were years ago, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[George Camel]

Whenever we, whenever we decided that it was finally time to, you know, we got readjusted. We both got jobs. My wife makes about 31,000 a year. I'm making about, a little embarrassed about it, but I'm making about 1600-1800 dollars a month. And so the only, the debt that we have, including our vehicle right now is under $15,000. And we did the every dollar budget as well. But the only hope I have of, I mean, right now, the only hope that I currently see if I stay at my current job, which is as a custodian, you know, in December I'll have an opportunity to adjust all of our benefits and when I cancel everything out, be receiving about $580 extra a month. So we'll get around to the 22 to $2,400 a month. For me, my wife will stay about $2,100 a month. And so the only other options I have right now is to sub as a substitute. And the only thing I've been doing extra so far is to I've been trying my hand at doordashing and sometimes you Know, that's not been the very best ideas, but I'm not really sure what to do because the only degrees I have are, you know, from my Bible college, so masters in ministry, you know.

[Rachel Cruz]

How old are you guys?

[George Camel]

I'm 34 and my wife is 29.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so great. Well, let me first just say. Don't. I would not be embarrassed by that amount. I think that you're. You're doing hard work and you guys are just shifting what life has looked like. I mean, up until this point. Yeah, you guys were living one life. You're coming back and doing something else. Right. And so that. That is. That does not speak to who you are as a person. And so much in our world, our salaries and our income and our net worth becomes our self worth. Right. That is such an American mindset. And so I understand. It can. It feels defeating because you're like, I'm working really hard, and I feel like I'm not making enough to support my family. So all of that. That tension, I'm so glad to hear, because also, like, we get calls on the show, and they're like, my husband won't go to work, and we're. We. We don't have enough to make ends meet, you know, and you're like, they.

[Caller]

Won'T swallow their pride.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, they won't swallow their pride and just do what you're doing. So, like, there's so much upside for you, but, like, even from just the attitude of how you're approaching all of this. So just hear. Hear us say that first and foremost, and. And who you are in your character, honestly, is what takes you far in life. It's usually not a college degree. And what you got your degree in, quote unquote, because half people don't even use their degree. And so, yeah, so I think there's. There's a lot of upside. So I. I'm curious, Blake, for you, you know, you're 34. Like, what. What would you want to be doing at 40? Like, what is a. What is a job? What is a career path? What is a line of work that gets you excited?

[George Camel]

Right? So the. The thing I've always been excited about was when I was 15, man, that for us, like, God's been a big part of our lives, and he saved me when I was 15. And the most exciting thing in the world was seeing missionaries come by our church. And I'm like, man, I answered that call to go well, when we had to come off through a lot of tears and stuff, like, we couldn't go back. And so I don't think right now that's an option. But I would love to be in ministry regardless of what we're making. But the only thing that I've ever done that I've enjoyed was, you know, putting what I've learned into other people. I guess that would be called mentoring, but I'm not. I'm not really sure, work wise, what the answer to that would be. I'm sorry.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. No, no.

[Caller]

We're a resource to help with that. Before we leave the call, our phone screener is going to pick up and give you Ken Coleman's book, find the work you're wired to do. It comes with a get clear career assessment. I want you and your wife to take that because I just think you guys can do better. You need to do better for your family, and that's going to mean finding a career you can sink your teeth into instead of just odd jobs. And let me also tell you this. Any job can be a ministry, and I know that you can work within the church system and that can be a real blessing, but, man, there is so much ministry to be done outside of the church, too. And I want you to know that there is immense purpose regardless of where the Lord takes you. And I hope that it just encourages you to look beyond the scope of just, well, if I'm not a missionary, who am I? What am I going to do?

[George Camel]

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. I'd love to take the assessment.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Have you guys. You said you did your every dollar budget? I'm curious, how much does it take to run your household each month?

[George Camel]

So I know we're about. The last time I looked at it, about three weeks ago is the first time that I did it. And that's how I got connected with you guys. We're about $734 in the red.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And so if we're bringing home about four, about 3,800amonth, then we're. We're in a hole about, I guess about $4,500 from where we're renting right now.

[Caller]

How much is your rent?

[George Camel]

So the rent's 1375. And this was the cheapest thing we could find in our area.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I mean, that's not expensive.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I'm curious, Blake, is there anything in the area that for the meantime that instead of trying to pair because you could. You could pair two or three side hustles together, it's just going to be exhausting, and that's not sustainable long term. So I'm just wondering from your primary income, is there anything out there that's paying, you know, because right now you're making what, 27.

[Caller]

You're making 20k a year right now, which is about 10 bucks an hour after taxes.

[George Camel]

Yes, sir.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I'm wondering, you know, anything working at Walmart, you're going to make more than that. I mean, but is there, is there anything in your area that. That. Yeah. That you're able to make 40, 50 grand.

[George Camel]

So I've been looking for, you know, ever since July and I've been trying to find that answer. The only things that we've got for entry level work is about 1650 an hour and right now we're getting about 1675 because we putt into benefits, unfortunately, at the school. And that won't change till next year when we can cancel those. All the entry level work is about 1550-1650. Unless you specialize or have a degree in something or have prior experience to it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I'm even wondering if there's people in your area that. Yeah. That are. That. That. Because Ken Coleman talks about this a lot. That so much of our work and getting that next step or that next job is more about the people. You know, it's not about the application. And so. Yeah. In your, in your realm of people.

[Caller]

Just your church community even asking around there. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

If there's a business owner and they need admin work. Right. I mean, like anything like that. Or even some remote jobs. Blake. Which might drive you nuts, being in the house all day. I don't know. Because you're probably an active guy. But. Yeah. If there's anything. Yeah. Within your community that. I think that's going to be your best bet, Blake, between now and, you know, the next year, instead of putting together which you can. And you're going to have to do something soon because you can't be in the red for long.

[Caller]

Can you guys cut your expenses? It still feels like there's a lot. I mean, you still have thousands more expenses every month, even beyond your rent.

[George Camel]

Sure. So when we went to it, we actually adjusted it to what would be the most ideal situation for us. And we completely cut out every extra spending that we were doing.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much is the car payment a month?

[George Camel]

So that one is 275. We owe about 8,300 more on it. And I don't think we could even. That was another lesson learned. But I don't know that we could sell it for enough.

[Caller]

You're underwater.

[George Camel]

Another. Yeah. Is that what it's underwater. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is that the only debt you guys have?

[George Camel]

Other than that, we just have four credit cards. So since we started your budget, we paid off my lowest one, about 500 something. We paid half of my wife's.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Lowest one after that. So we're doing the snowball.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, that's great. You guys are making progress. Okay. Yeah. That's great. I mean, yeah, in between, you know, now and March, I probably would be doing some side hustle stuff. And if there's anything that you can do that goes straight to the consumer, we always find that you're going to make more doing that. So even if that's tutoring, you said that you're, you know, a substitute teacher. So if you can even tutor doing something like that for the meantime. But looking for that main income to go up is going to be the key and kind of getting you on that right path. We're going to give you. Yeah. Ken Coleman's career assessment. So. So make sure to do that, Blake. And if anyone else is new like Blake, and you want us to know where you are with the baby steps, make sure to go and check your progress and receive a personalized plan. And you can click the link in the show notes, which is titled are you on track with the baby steps? And complete that quiz. And this hour is up, George. And we'll see all of you guys live on radio and in the Ramsey app. Coming.