A (2:37)

How long have you guys been married?

C (2:40)

Almost 23 years.

A (2:41)

And you've had separate accounts the entire time?

C (2:44)

Well, no, we have the joint account. We just. We. This is a second marriage for both of us, so we. We had our own personal accounts when we came into the relationship, so we just used our personal accounts for our allowance, and then all the rest of the money was put into the joint. But at the time, I had a different, you know, knowledge of what his income was, and as it grew, he.

A (3:05)

Yeah, but you weren't. But you weren't seeing the money in the joint account.

C (3:09)

I. Yeah, he was having. I thought the whole thing was being auto deposited, but what he was doing was he was splitting some to go into his personal account, some to go into a savings account, and the rest to go into the.

A (3:20)

All right, my partner here is about ready to pop here. What's. What are you thinking?

B (3:24)

Well, I wanted to make sure I understood both sides of the story, but you kind of laid it out for me in that, you know, you said you each have individual accounts, but then you have this joint account. Right. Did I hear that right?

C (3:35)

Right. Yeah, the joint account is where we put all, supposedly all the money.

B (3:39)

But there's. There's. There's a crack there. There's a. There's a leak in that, in that pipe. Because now you've created, You've. You've eliminated transparency. When you said, my check goes into my account first and then I am being trusted to then put the full amount into this joint account or to put the amount that I say into this joint account. Because my question for you then would be, does he have the login and passwords to your personal account? And do you have the logins and account to his personal account? And did you before all this happened?

C (4:11)

No.

B (4:12)

Okay, so that's where I say the point of combining. The point of combining finances is not just to say, and we have this joint account that we put some money in. The point of it is complete transparency and trust. That's at the core of why we do that.

C (4:27)

Right.

B (4:28)

And so that's. That's where there was a hiccup in this plan. And what I think. What I think without you intending it and maybe without him intending it, are two things. Number one, when you say, when you. When you both agree to eliminate that transparency, then it also invites the ability to hide things, because.

C (4:47)

Yeah. And I mean, if you can't trust your husband, who can you trust?

B (4:51)

But you have Said, you have said that you don't trust each other because you opened this by saying, this is our second marriage. Marriage. And which means there's a caveat there. Because it's our second marriage, we don't trust each other as much because it's our second marriage, we've decided to do things a little different because it's our second marriage, we have our own accounts. That has a lot of implication in it, based on what you were saying.

C (5:11)

Yeah, I see what you're saying. You know what I mean, Just mentioning. You know, I was just mentioning it was our. It was our second marriage as an explanation as to why we had our own account.

B (5:19)

Exactly. And I'm agreeing with you. But what I really wanted to ask you. What I really wanted to ask you, Beth, was the thing that you said when you asked him about it, and he said, well, I'm afraid she'll take all of it.

A (5:32)

Yeah.

B (5:32)

Is that. Is there any truth to that?

C (5:34)

Good or bad, you'll take? Well, okay. So Dave said gazelle, and I am like, you know, uber gazelle. And maybe I was guilty of being a little bit too frisky on sound really fast.

B (5:48)

Okay.

C (5:48)

You know, I might plead guilty to that.

A (5:51)

Okay.

C (5:52)

But. So.

B (5:53)

And I'm not saying, don't get me wrong, it's no excuse for him to have been dishonest with you, but I think there's a little. What I'm saying is I think there's room for both of you guys to budge on this. What I was listening for, Beth is a bad guy. You know, I. I'm listening to. See, Is this a bad guy? Is this guy a guy who's really disrespecting her? Is this a guy who, you know, that we need to put in his place? But I don't. Ken, what do you think? I don't think so.

A (6:20)

Well, I don't think he may be a bad guy, but he's a bad husband right now. So here's my question, Beth, what is your question for us? Because this is pretty awful stuff. This has got to be shaking you. So how can we help today? Because this is a massive marriage problem that involves very intentional therapy.

B (6:40)

Yes, 100%.

C (6:41)

Well, when I became disabled, it was my job to pay the bills, run the household. I take care of everything. When I became disabled two and a half years ago, that did not stop. And so trying to manage the same bills and reconcile the ones that we couldn't pay and dealing with creditors, that fell on me. And I've been very, very sick. For two and a half years. And so I just, in anger when I discovered this, I told them, I said, you know, I tried to discuss it, and I said, you know, I'm not going to take all your money. But we agreed on an allowance. And since I went on Social Security disability, I felt guilty taking an allowance. So I put my entire check.

B (7:20)

And so here, Here, Beth, here is where I want to jump in, because this is where the issue is. Again, I want to be very clear. What he did was wrong. He should not have treated the money that way. He should not have been duplicitous in that way. However, there is an unhealthiness in how the money's being handled also on your end. And I can tell you, adults don't like being treated like children. And so for him, he. I could understand being feeling like, hey, I go to work all day, I give my money over to my spouse, and they give me an allowance, and I busting my butt all day. People don't like that. So what we would suggest and what I would suggest here is you guys really do have to be on one accord with this, which is we both work. We decide together how our money is being spent. We're going to decide what goes on to bills. We are going to have everything in one joint account, not accounts off to the side, but we get paid into the same account. So we can all see it, full transparency. And then we decide, how much, Beth, are you going to spend on fun? How much is he going to spend on fun? And we see it together. And if you, Beth, choose not to spend your fun money, that's your choice. He's still a man and wants to.

A (8:33)

Feel like he can see your side. But I also think that this is a marriage problem, and we got to find out pretty quick if he's willing to fix this marriage problem. Both of you come to the table, own both of your stuff, and see if we can have a clear path forward. That's our answer. You say you'll never join the Navy, that you never track storms brewing in the Atlantic and skydiving could never be part of your commute. You'd never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or fly so fast you break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Start your journey at navy.com, america's Navy.

B (9:28)

Forged by the sea.

A (9:31)

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C (11:09)

Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade. How are y' all doing?

A (11:11)

Great.

C (11:13)

Good. I just, I feel like I got a complicated question, but I'll try to keep it simple. So I'm a traveling preacher. I hold revivals throughout the country. And I also hold down a full time job. I do it probably on average, probably one revival a month, on average. So that requires a lot of travel. I'm putting roughly 50,000 miles a year at least on my vehicles. And I'm caught in a cycle of going upside down on cars. I really like to get rid of having the car payment altogether because it's holding me back from other financial goals. But I can't seem. It's like my last vehicle, I got it paid for as soon as I got it paid for. My plan was to drive it until I saved it for another, but it broke down, had to replace the motor. Long story short, I wound up going in debt on another car because I had to have a reliable vehicle. So I just wondering, what do y' all suggest I do to, to just kind of break this cycle?

A (12:16)

Okay, so you do one of these revival meetings. A month is your average. So that's 12 average.

C (12:23)

There's some, there's some months that I may not have anything and then I may have two or three things crammed in one month. But on average, you know, it's all right.

A (12:31)

So that tells me, okay, so that tells me just, I'm Going somewhere with this. So that tells me we can work off of 12 travel events a year, correct?

C (12:42)

Close to that, probably.

A (12:43)

All right.

B (12:43)

Plus the full time. Didn't you say you hold down a job, too?

A (12:45)

Yeah, but we're talking about these.

C (12:47)

I do. So when I'm. When I'm home and I'm not traveling, I work a job that brings in roughly 50,000 a year.

A (12:53)

Okay, you're making 50,000 a year there. What. How are you getting paid? Are you getting paid through offerings? And then how much? Give me a number. And again, we're working off of 12, because the solution I'm going to propose here, it doesn't matter if it's 12 of these or 15, but you're somewhere in the 12 to 15 range. We've established that. Okay, so how are you getting paid for these revival meetings?

C (13:18)

It varies, but, you know, based on church size and what they're able to do, I don't require anything, but they generally take care of me. You know, my travel expenses. And I usually have some leftover. But I'm also, while I'm going doing that, I'm not getting paid from my regular job.

B (13:33)

Okay, how much.

A (13:35)

How much are you making per weekend, roughly?

C (13:40)

Probably 800 to a thousand for a week.

B (13:43)

And that's probably around like a. That's not just the extra. Right. That's them taking care of you with food and whatever else you might need.

C (13:50)

That's usually the offering. Most of the time. They will cover your food and lodging.

A (13:54)

Okay, I have a very simple solution. I've been trying to kind of play this out. I'm just going to go ahead and jump ahead because we're getting distracted here. You just need to be flying to these places. If you're making somewhere between 800 to $1,000 on this thing and they're paying your expenses instead of you driving all over creation, which, if you have a Monday through Friday job and you've got to drive from wherever you are in Mississippi to Ohio and you have to take off time for work, that's just not being very smart. And you're going to these things. These are weekend deals, correct?

C (14:27)

Most of them are going to run all week long. They're going to run like a Sunday through Friday. Well, this is just three days.

A (14:32)

Okay, so my. So here's. Okay, so if it's all week and I'm missing time, so I'm eating into my vacation time and I've got my $50,000 a year job, and then let's just say 12 times is 9,600. Right. Is that right? Is that my math?

B (14:47)

Sure.

A (14:48)

You know, for all of this wear and tear on the car, and I know this is a ministry thing for you, and I'm not in any way trying to talk you out of it, but the way you're going about this doesn't make a lot of sense to put all this mileage on the car.

C (15:00)

Most of the time, I also take my wife and kids. Does that play into that?

B (15:04)

It might. It might need to play into it.

A (15:06)

I wouldn't. This has got to be more efficient. This is basically. You are bivocational. Would you. Would you agree with that?

C (15:14)

Yes.

A (15:14)

Okay. So if it's a. If I'm bi, vocational, I can't have one side of the equation pulling me down financially. Now, we. I could have gone another path, and I. Because I know my partner's gonna go this direction. You didn't have to go into debt for a car. This whole idea that I have to go into debt and all this kind of thing. You don't have to do that. What you've got to do a better job is, is that if I'm gonna go get paid to preach, then that needs to be a better economic model. Now, I'm gonna tell you something. I know your model. Cause I grew up in a small Baptist church. My dad's a pastor, retired now, and we had guys like you come in. But for you to be doing that week, a full week at a time, you have to start to ask yourself, is that the best play? Or is it better for me to then fill pulpits on the weekend, which is also a play where you're an interim pastor and you can hold down a job plus preach and make money. And so I'm challenging you. That the way you started the call. And I want Jay to come in and take over here on the money piece. But what I heard was a guy who felt like I'm in prison to my ministry. And I think that's faulty thinking. And there is a way for you to fill that vocational ministry desire and not have it penalize you financially. So, yeah, I wouldn't take my wife and kids. That's. That's more expenses. I wouldn't drive everywhere. I'd have people fly me in. They're planning far enough in advance that they can get you pretty reasonable ticket. And it should be less than $800. You're not going to California and doing revivals. I know that. So I just. I want to challenge you to rework your model and do it in a Way that is actually financially advantageous, not something that pulls you down.

B (16:59)

Okay, yeah, I agree with Ken, 100 on this. I think you do need to get more efficient because part of, part of. How can I say this in a way that doesn't sound judgmental? Because I'm not judging you at all, but part of that integrity that you're preaching from and teaching from, there is a financial component to that and we want that to feel consistent across our life. I think you will feel better having dealt with this and making sure. First let me make sure my house is in order. Make sure I'm not leaving my family in debt, putting us in a financially precarious situation. Does that make sense? And that way there's that, that's that firm footing across the board. That's kind of where my thought and head was on this. And I think Ken spoke to it beautifully.

A (17:44)

So get out of debt, right? So let's write the ship. Let's, let's get back in line with. Well, wait a second, maybe the next couple calls I take, I say, hey, here's the deal. I can't do a full week. I can do a weekend. And here's what I'm going to require.

C (18:02)

And can I use your follow up question?

A (18:05)

Sure.

C (18:06)

So, okay, so the debt that I'm in now, I want to ask a question about the best way to go about getting out of that. So the vehicle has 52,000 miles and it's 33 on it. I bought it when I, when I got it. I was not upside down on it when I went into it. But now because of the miles I put on it, I'm already 7,000 upside down.

B (18:25)

Okay, so 7,000 upside down.

C (18:27)

Should I, should I sell it and try to get out of debt or should I try to pay it off early and continue driving it?

B (18:34)

Well, let's figure the, whether we can pay it off early because if we think you can get this thing paid off in a year and a half, two years, then I'd probably keep it. But it depends on what other debt you have. Do you have any other debt?

C (18:46)

Just my house.

B (18:47)

Oh, just the house. Okay. And that's it? No credit cards? No student loans?

C (18:52)

No.

B (18:52)

Okay, then I, if I were you making 50,000. Does your wife make anything?

C (18:58)

No, she's stay at home mom.

B (18:59)

How many kids?

C (19:01)

3.

A (19:02)

How old are they?

C (19:04)

I have twins that are about to be 12 and I have a 9 year old daughter.

B (19:08)

Okay. She needs to be bringing in an income, especially with you doing this, even if it's just for A short season until you guys get this 33000 paid off. Because for now, if you are going to do more driving, I agree with Ken that you should try to fly to more to more of these. But in the interim, if you are doing more driving, it could be a good idea to keep this car and just pay it off quickly. Your wife can pick up a th000 or 2000 bucks a month. You guys can do that very quickly. And I would suggest that I really, I'm.

A (19:37)

I'm going to tell you this. And again, my, my dad does this. He's retired, but he is a interim pastor. And so he fills churches where they're looking to replace somebody that's left. They're looking for a senior pastor. I think right now at this season, I'd press pause on the current revival rhythm. I don't think it makes sense for you and I don't think you're being a good steward. A week away from your full making five days a week, 800 bucks. That's not great, man.

C (20:06)

So I, I think I make that, I make that. Aside from. So even being gone.

A (20:13)

I get it. I'm not changing my opinion. I'm not changing my opinion. Yeah, I think you need to rework what you're doing because it's not working for you. And then you figure out how can I make money doing ministry. But I'm filling interim roles while being at home. I pay my car off. Mama needs a part time job at least helping out right now. And dig out, you know, listen, you know the scripture on this, so you got to eat. You know what you're cooking. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack. And suddenly everything changes. Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get Back on your feet now. If your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. All right. Did you know that 2/3 of Americans will die without a will? That seems crazy to me. If you asked me that point blank, I would have never guessed that. That, that surprises me. But then, nothing surprises me anymore. But here's what happens when you die without a will. You're inviting the court, lawyers and the public into the most personal part of your life. Howard Hughes, probably the most eccentric billionaire of modern times, died in April of 1976 without a will. Over 600 people came forward claiming interest in his fortune. And in the end, a judge decided that 2.5 billion would be split between 22 of his legal cousins.

B (23:29)

Oh, my gosh.

A (23:30)

That's funny and sad at the same time. So we want to challenge you to create your will in the month of August. Takes less than five minutes. You can find out if an online will works for you@ramsey solutions.com willsquiz that's ramseysolutions.com wills quiz. Or if you're listening to us via podcast or on YouTube, there's a link in the show notes so you can get 25% off when you use the promo code. Will month. One word, no space. Will month. I guess August is will month.

B (24:07)

Will month. Remember Fred Flintstone when he.

A (24:14)

Ms. Fred Flintstone, I will tell you this. You know, we work with a lot of young people, you know.

B (24:20)

Yeah.

A (24:20)

And James, this true story. I made a Fred Flintstone reference in a meeting recently with several 20 somethings. And they looked at me like I had horns growing out my head. And I'm like, if you don't know who Barney Rubble is, you haven't lived because Barney was the best friend in the history of television. All right, I'm gonna leave that there. It's probably on YouTube. If you don't know the Flintstones, go check it out. Anthony is joining us now in Kentucky. Anthony, how can we help?

C (24:48)

I appreciate you guys taking my call. I recently lost everything. My ex committed domestic violence in another state and I had to flee with my one year old son. So I'm a single father.

A (25:09)

So sorry.

C (25:10)

It's been about. It's been about three weeks since I've been back home, and I thought I would have help from my family. And I have one aunt that watches him while I work. And that's it. My mom came around one morning. I was at her house talking about how I owe her three grand from when my son was born. She made me buy the car seat that she bought him for his birthday. Then my cousin's been just lying about me, saying that I gave up custody of my son to her and everything. So I was basically been on my own since I've been back down here. I. I just. I got help from my church. They put us in a hotel room. They took me around to get me a job. I. I'm a server now at a local restaurant. Good. And I recently I maxed out student loans. I'm going. I start school on Monday and I just. I don't know what to do.

A (26:28)

Well, here's what I want you to do. Here's. I want you to do. Okay, I literally want you right now to take a deep breath. You don't have to do it in the phone, but I want you to take a deep breath. Okay?

C (26:40)

Okay. All right.

A (26:42)

Now let's. Let's just start walking through this. So why are you starting school? What. What are we doing? Why are we going to school?

C (26:52)

Honestly, it's the only way that I could see that I could get a large lump sum of money to get a car and a place as soon as possible.

A (27:04)

Okay, so hold on.

C (27:06)

I have an interest in going to school. Like, I'm going for something that I'm going for psychology. I have a huge interest in it. I want to do this.

B (27:16)

You pulled out more than what you would need to make sure you have.

A (27:19)

You took out a loan?

C (27:21)

Yeah, it's student loans. It's financial aid.

B (27:25)

Okay, how much?

C (27:28)

I took out 9,500 for the whole school year. I got 7,300 for my Pell Grant, where I'm a single father, so I'll have about 16 split into two semesters, like after tuition and books and all that. It'll come out to around 6,000 a semester for this semester. Next semester.

A (27:53)

How are you going to go to school and work enough to be able to take care of your son and find a place to live? Have you thought through this?

C (28:02)

Yeah, I'm doing online school. There are only prerequisites right now, so I work in the evenings. I work 4 to 10, and my aunt is watching him basically exclusively. I'm at work.

A (28:17)

Okay.

C (28:18)

And then just. I want to see what I can do, like, grind out as much as I can, schoolwork, get ahead as much as I can, and just save as much money as I can.

A (28:29)

Okay, well, you've already pulled out the loan. But. But for. For the future, can we just quickly cover the fact that that's not the way to get ahead financially? Because had you called us a week ago before you did this, I would have said, let's press pause on the psychology degree and let's get our life stable. And I'm loving that you got into a local church and the church is helping you, but taking out a loan for living expenses is not the answer. And so I would not do this much further. I want Jade to kind of jump in here and walk you out of this deal. But is there just quickly, is there a specific question you had for us today? Because I understand your situation, and it's tough. But before she covers that and going forward, is there anything else that you were specifically asking?

C (29:14)

Asking just what. What are my next steps, like, now that I have taken out the loan? Now that, like, just what can I do from here to give my son the best possible outcome from this?

A (29:28)

Perfect.

B (29:28)

All right, so I. I really want Ken to hit the work part, because right now you said you're working from 4 to 10. How much are you bringing home? What's your income right now? Let's see if that's a livable wage.

C (29:39)

I. Right now, I average about 200 good days. I make a little over $300 a day.

B (29:46)

Okay, and what's that breakdown to a month? Right Quick.

C (29:50)

So I just started Wednesday. I don't have that, like, off the top of my head, but I'm.

B (29:56)

I'm making, so, like, around 4,000 bucks.

C (29:58)

Around. Around. Yeah.

B (30:00)

Okay, so the first things first is you're in the hotel right now. So first things first is we need to say, okay, what do we need with our 4,000 bucks a month? Where's an apartment near me? I want you to do some apartment homework and find out what's near you that you can get 4,000 bucks a month. Okay, so where you are, I'm not sure, but see what you can find. Even if it means, you know, finding somebody at that church that's maybe renting out, you know, room over the garage. Get really, really creative and don't just take the first option that comes to you. So that's thing one, finding a place to live. And then you've got the support of your aunt. And I want to, I want you to really talk with her and make sure she understands what she, she, she signed up for, which is, hey, life's going to be tough for me for a while. I need to know I can count on you and really make sure you're building into that relationship because she's your lifeline right now. So that's thing too, is making sure that you are really opening up the lines of communication with her and making sure she understands what she's in for. And then after that, I'm inclined right now because I think you did the school thing out of fear and out of, like, trying to find a way out. Yeah, I don't think you have a clear path there yet. If I were you, I'd turn around and give that money right back.

A (31:17)

Yeah, I was going to ask if you could do that. I didn't know.

B (31:19)

Pay it right off, take the money, turn around, pay it right off and be done. Because you haven't given it to anybody yet. And that's not the way that you want to buy a car. It's going to cause you so much headache because you're making an income. You just need to give it a chance to play out.

A (31:31)

That's right.

B (31:32)

So give that money back and then Ken is going to set you up with when you're able to decide if you even need to go to school.

A (31:38)

Kelly, let's give him. Anthony, we're going to give you my book. Book the Get Clear career assessment. Find the work you're wired to do. Take 18 to 20 minutes on this and let's, let's, let's get some results and start ideating on what a path looks like in the near future. Not right away, but here's the deal. The reason I told you to take a deep breath is you've been through a lot, but I can tell you you've landed well and the ant is a saint. And now it's doing exactly what Jade said, and let's work as much as we can. I mean, as much as we can. I love giving the money back. Pause all education and let's get stable because you need to heal and getting Healthy and stable will allow you to get clear and confident on your future. Hang on. We're going to take care of you.

B (32:34)

Okay?

A (32:34)

Rachel, the Internet officially knows too much about all of us.

C (32:37)

So much, George.

B (32:38)

I mean, our names, our addresses, even our. Our relatives names. And what's crazy is even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info.

A (32:46)

Don't like that. And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year.

B (32:55)

You guys, that is so concerning. Because that info then can be used in phishing, scams, impersonation, and even harassment. That's why George and I both use and love Delete Me.

A (33:05)

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B (33:17)

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C (33:26)

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B (33:27)

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C (33:37)

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A (33:38)

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C (33:42)

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B (33:44)

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A (33:47)

Yes. So go to joind. Deleteme.com Ramsey for 20% off. And that discount brings their annual plans down to about nine bucks a month. So go check it out. Join DeleteMe.com Ramsey all right, let's go to Chrissy, who's joining us now in Texas. Christy. How can we help?

C (34:19)

Hi, this is Christy.

A (34:21)

Yes, I know. Hi, how are you?

C (34:23)

Thank you. I'm not doing too well, but thank you for taking my phone call.

A (34:27)

Okay, we're here for you. What's going on?

C (34:30)

My. My husband was not able to be on my. Our home loan when we bought our home, so his mother volunteer volunteered herself and co signed, so her and I are on the. On the mortgage. He committed suicide in December.

A (34:43)

Oh.

C (34:44)

That put our family in a huge. My son and I were both there when he did it.

A (34:50)

Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. I don't even know what to say.

C (34:54)

I couldn't. I couldn't work for months. My Son and I are both in therapy. I have ptsd. I have complex grief, I have trauma induced psychosis. So it's just, But I am working. Like I couldn't work for the first three, three and a half months. But I'm doing great now like with therapy. Therapy is helping so much, but I am working. So with her being on our, on our mortgage, I need her to sign off on anything. So my mortgage company has been amazing. So they let them know exactly what happened and they have, they have, they put us in forbearance for a little bit and then they were putting us in like a loss mitigation where they've decided themselves that they were just going to forgive what was owed. I mean the few months that I had had, oh, they were just going to forgive it. And it was, I just had to sign it. My mother in law had to sign it. So this was back in end of March, beginning of April, so she had to sign it. And so she, I sent her the papers a few times. She kept missing the deadline so I'd have to get them reprinted by the mortgage. I just got a letter from her lawyer yesterday. She's not going to sign them.

B (36:02)

Why not?

C (36:05)

There's, there's no reason. Well, the reason from the lawyer was that they said they don't think that I can make the payments, which I have. I was, I was like my husband had actually been depressed that whole year. I was making all the payments.

B (36:18)

What is the payment?

C (36:19)

It is $2,100 a month.

B (36:21)

And how much do you earn?

C (36:24)

I earn between 5,500 and 6,000. That's, that's, I mean that's between. And then now I, now I get Social Security.

B (36:32)

And how much is that?

C (36:34)

2400.

B (36:35)

Okay, so you're, you're the, you're the, the mother. Is it mother in law or your mother?

C (36:43)

Mother.

A (36:44)

So what happens? So I'm tracking. So what happens? Let's, let's just assume we can't change her mind. What, what, what is the arrangement now with the, your mortgage company? They know all this? It seems like they've been very kind to you and they know what you're up against. Have you told them? Hey, my mother in law is not, not playing ball and she's not going to stop sign.

C (37:05)

Right. And they've given me the option to refinance. Of course, him passing away in December, those few months that I wasn't making any payments, I wasn't making credit card payments. I wasn't. And the crazy thing is I have, I Have caught up on most of the credit cards. I paid off any bills that we were behind. I paid off my.

B (37:20)

They gave you the opportunity. Finance what we want so you can get her off the loan.

C (37:26)

They won't allow me because I don't have a 620 credit score because my credit went down when I wasn't paying bills.

A (37:33)

Okay, so what's the other option? Sounds like you talked to them. So what are they saying?

C (37:37)

Yeah, foreclosure. And I'm trying to keep my home. I've got children. I'm trying to keep my home.

A (37:44)

What do you have to do to get out of foreclosure?

C (37:48)

I have to pay whatever I'm behind. How much right now with. With all the fees, it's like 18,000.

A (37:54)

You have any cash at all?

C (37:55)

All I do, but nothing near that. I mean, and I.

A (37:58)

Well, no, no, we're trying to work through this. So listen, we're trying to work through this. So I just need. I know you're under it right now, but we're just trying to work through this. So let's go one question at a time. How much cash do you have?

C (38:10)

About 4,000.

A (38:12)

Okay, so we need 14,000.

B (38:14)

Ne. Well, next question. Before we land on this being the right option, was there trauma in that house?

C (38:22)

Trauma? Yes.

A (38:22)

Yeah, he committed suicide.

B (38:24)

Okay. Which is why I'm going to suggest that we sell this house.

C (38:29)

Yeah, you don't need to.

B (38:30)

You don't need to live in this house. And this is a trauma filled house. And right now it is a major source of stress. You need to sell the house and then you're free and clear of the mother in law. Whatever. If there's proceeds that come out of it, you guys split it, go your separate ways. And you need to start over.

A (38:46)

I agree.

B (38:47)

And create a new life. Life that is not inclusive of this house.

C (38:51)

I'm just afraid that I can't afford to purchase a house like I bought it with two income.

B (38:55)

I understand. You will. Because here's the thing. You just got. You just got through explaining to me why you can afford a 2100amonth mortgage and you can. You're making $8,000 a month now, including the Social Security. Now here's the thing. It's going to take some time, but you're rebuilding life. You're not. It's not like you just pushed pause and now we're pushing play again on a. On a fully built life. You're starting over because you've had this major trauma place.

A (39:20)

Let's look at the Numbers, though. And by the way, I'm glad you jumped to that. I was reacting to what you said. I think Jade's right. The best thing for you to do, for multiple reasons, emotional and financial, sell the house. So I'm with it. Let's play this out. How much could you sell the house for? Have you looked into this?

C (39:36)

When we bought appraised for 275, I bought it for 205, but that's not.

A (39:43)

Okay, so I don't think you know what it's worth today, do you?

C (39:46)

You, I don't know.

A (39:47)

All right, so here's the deal. Do you have a. Do you have a real estate professional that you've already used before and you know and trust?

C (39:53)

I do, and I've reached out to them. I'm waiting to hear back.

A (39:55)

Okay, great. So here's the deal. So step one, they tell you what they think the market bears for that. Okay, so you owe how much on the home?

C (40:03)

I couldn't tell you that number. I just know what I'm.

A (40:06)

Well, you need to go get that number.

B (40:07)

That's your number one. Homework is for you to find out what you own the house and what it's called worth, and then from there you can find out. Okay, if we sell this house for what they say it's worth or somewhere near it. Lowball. I want you to lowball everything so that you're pleasantly surprised.

A (40:22)

So, Christy, you don't know the numbers, but let's say that you. You said you bought it for 205. How many years ago?

C (40:29)

Year ago. Oh, one year ago.

B (40:30)

Okay, so you're probably going to break even.

A (40:32)

Yeah, you might break even, but here's the. You may come away with a little bit of cash. Who knows? I don't know. But you got to get those numbers. But. So that helps us there. So maybe renting is going to be the. More. I think that's probably the best place. Okay. It's fine.

B (40:45)

Renting is great. Renting is a preparatory phase for you to buy a house. That's what it is. It's time for you to do your research. It's time for you to save up money. And in your case, it's time for you to just have a moment. Because when you're renting, do you know what's not your problem? Anytime the. The AC breaks, anytime the roof breaks, anything, it's not your problem. And you need a life right now that is very simple with very little problem. And so I think renting is a great option for you right now. In the interim, there is a time when you're going to buy a house again and it's going to be a joy filled time. But right now it's time for healing and it's time for simplification.

A (41:23)

And the numbers that you gave Jade and I, you can easily afford a nice house once you get a down payment. So it's going to take a little bit of time. But again, you're bringing in plenty of income to afford a decent house in your area. Area. So be patient, continue to work on getting healthy and your family getting healthy. And then you there, there's a day coming where you're going to be able to have a nice house. But yeah, the ma, the mother in law thing is toxic. Jade's 100, right. That's the right play.

B (41:54)

We're pulling for you. What?

A (41:55)

You're so tough.

C (41:59)

Thank you guys very much. Thank you all very, very much. We're working through it as best as we can.

A (42:05)

You're doing great.

C (42:05)

I was, I was actually considering bankruptcy.

B (42:09)

Because you didn't tell us. I mean, is there other debt to speak of? You. You told us about the house mortgage.

A (42:14)

Oh, this is actually easy.

B (42:15)

This is. And then a couple of.

C (42:17)

There's like two credit cards that don't have a whole lot because I've been paying them down.

B (42:20)

Good.

C (42:20)

They don't have too much on them, but good.

A (42:22)

Real estate agent's going to help you out of this deal. Make sure you're communicating with the mortgage company. Go. Here's what's going on. We're going to sell the house. It's time to move on.

C (42:29)

On.

A (42:30)

They're going to get their money. They've been great to work with you, but make sure you tie up that end. And forget the mother in law. No more communication on this. Forget it. There's some bad blood on that deal. That's not just that she's concerned that you can't make the payment.

B (42:44)

Yeah, that's right.

A (42:45)

That something about that feels really bad. And by the way, I feel horrible for her. I mean this is her son, so I'm not casting judgment on her. This is a horrible situation for everybody left behind. But we want to make sure that you hear us, Christy, like you can actually get out of this. Sell the house, take your time and just heal.

B (43:04)

Yeah.

A (43:05)

Okay.

C (43:07)

Thank you so much.

B (43:08)

Call us back if you need us. Call us back.

A (43:12)

Call us back. Yeah, we're walking with you on this. Okay. Kelly's gonna take good care of you. Got to get back on. And either a pep talk in two weeks, whether we're on here or not, someone's gonna help you. Okay?

B (43:24)

All right. We love you.

A (43:24)

Hang with me.

B (43:25)

Thinking about you.

A (43:25)

Oh, my goodness. Well, there's real life right there. That's the tragic side of things. But the wisdom that you gave her, I just want to recap to our audience. What Jade said was, hey, when you've got trauma that has been forced upon you, don't complicate it with money decisions. Simplify, simplify, simplify. Smart people don't wait for trouble to show up. They think ahead. It's true with money, and it's just as true about protecting your home. That's why I recommend SimpliSafe. Because most security systems only respond after someone's already broken in. But by then, the damage is done. That's not a plan. That's a patch. Simplisafe is different. Their active guard, outdoor protection helps stop break ins before they happen. Their AI powered cameras watch for suspicious activity. And if someone's lurking live, SimpliSafe agents can talk to the person, turn on spotlights, and even call the police. That's the kind of thinking that prevents crime in real time. Monitoring plans start around a dollar a day for your first month. It's free and there are no contracts, just proact protection. That's why over 4 million Americans trust SimpliSafe and why it's been named best home security system of 2025 by CNET. And right now, you'll get 50% off a new system with professional monitoring. Go to simplisafedirect.com that's simplisafedirect.com. there's no safe like SimpliSafe. This is the Ramsey show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their life, specifically, their money, their work, and their relationships. We're so glad you've joined us today. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in on the conversation. 888-255-5225. And sitting alongside the incomparable, the fabulously talented Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman, and I, from hour one to two, I got a wardrobe change. First time I have ever done this. And Jade's husband, Sam, who's become very, very dear friend, presented me with the latest Warshaw entertainment tee. And it's a boxy tee, I'll be honest. The only one I have.

B (46:08)

That's right. You look good.

A (46:10)

I think I'm pulling it off. Off my shoulder. My shoulders could be a little broader, but I can't do anything about that. Hey, Jay gave me a hoodie that's a little big for me. If you want to try it on, see if you can wear it. Oh, okay.

B (46:20)

All right.

A (46:20)

All right. But I'm bringing this up because if you don't know Jade and Sam's story, they paid off nearly $500,000 in debt. They literally live what we teach and. And. And how they did it. They were traveling on cruises. Both of them were fabulously talented. Entertainment. But then, as a result, crazy cruises. Tell people how many cruises you think, you guys, a quick guess. What do you think?

B (46:47)

For sure? About 40 weeks a year.

A (46:49)

40.

B (46:50)

What does he put?

A (46:50)

Sam is drawing a number in the air.

B (46:52)

2,000.

A (46:53)

2,700 cruises.

B (46:55)

700. Okay.

A (46:56)

I can't believe I lip read that.

B (46:57)

That was amazing.

A (46:58)

Suck at that. My wife thinks I'm terrible at lip reading. But anyway, as a part of that, Sam learned the business of booking the very talent that you all were and now has a great company. Yes, and it's your company as well.

B (47:11)

Yes.

A (47:11)

And I'm proud to promote it. You are Warshaw Entertainment. So if people who. Who would call Sam, what are they looking for?

B (47:18)

Anybody who's a musician. If you are a musician by your own right. If you're a comedian. We take comedians. We take dancers. Ken, you gonna audition or what?

A (47:27)

No, Sam would never book me for anything. Well, no, I could emcee. I'd be pretty good. You could be good on a mic.

B (47:35)

I mean, we were friends before, but you're. You're the big homie now. Like, this is different.

A (47:39)

Oh, no, I love. I love the Warshaw. So I'm rep representing here, by the way, for free. But we're over at your house tomorrow night, so maybe I get an extra beverage.

B (47:48)

Yeah, and we'll get one for you too, James.

A (47:50)

Don't worry, James. We'll break out the good stuff for you.

B (47:51)

The hoodie didn't fit. I feel bad about that, but I'll take the hoodie.

A (47:54)

I'm a hoodie guy.

B (47:55)

Kim, bring. You bring up a good point because it. That does speak to my point of view when you guys call in and you have a bunch of debt. That's why I'm always saying sometimes the nine to five.

A (48:06)

Yeah.

B (48:06)

You know what I'm saying? Like, the paycheck doesn't cut it. And you have to go out there and create something that will cut it.

A (48:10)

Gotta hustle.

B (48:11)

And you can do that. So.

A (48:12)

So when we tell you all to get a second third ch. Job, we've done It. All right. You don't want to hear my war stories either.

B (48:18)

I do want to hear them.

C (48:19)

All right.

B (48:19)

Over a cigar one night.

A (48:21)

That. That can be arranged. Nathan is up in New Hampshire. Nathan, how can we help today?

C (48:27)

Hi, so I'm calling because I've got about $43,000 of credit card debt, and I was. I was potentially considering one of those, like, debt repayment programs where they kind of settle your debt for a lesser amount. I just wanted to get your guys take on that.

A (48:43)

No, it's awful. We're going to help you.

B (48:45)

Y. We wouldn't suggest that.

A (48:48)

Could I be a little more clear? Was I a little fuzzy?

C (48:51)

Yeah.

B (48:54)

I mean, at the end of the day, those. Those places are not doing anything for you that you couldn't do for yourself, and you can actually do it in a more integral way. So, in essence, what they would do is you'd pay into a pot, and they. They'd let those payments sit while your other payments become delinquent. And then at that point, they'd be able to make a deal and secure a lower. You know, a lower deal for you. And that's kind of the way it works. But I. But of course, it's laden with fees and things like that. So again, there's part of this that you can do on your own. For instance, if you do have any of them that are a delinquent or in collections, you can go ahead and secure a deal for pennies on the dollar with those. And then for any that are remaining, we're just going to work the debt snowball with them. And we can talk more about that in a minute. What I really want to get from you is a bigger picture of your finances right now. Is the 43,000. The only. Only. You did say 43,000, right?

C (49:47)

Yeah, it's about 43,000. And actually, all of it, except for I have a $3,000 loan that I've been paying on for, like, the last year since I started working again. And that's the only one that's current. Everything else has been in collections for a few years now. I had a pretty significant life event. You know, I kind of just went off the rails. I went into homelessness and stuff, and it's just not what caused a good season for me.

B (50:14)

But what caused that was a little job loss or medical deal. What happened?

C (50:20)

Yeah, I went through a pretty painful divorce. And then a month after my divorce happened, my dad died.

B (50:27)

Oh.

C (50:28)

And I just. I. I did not Farewell through all of that.

B (50:32)

I understand. Okay. But you Feel like you're stable? You feel like you're in a good place now?

C (50:39)

Yeah. Yeah. So my current situation, I am living rent free with a friend who's letting me exchange work on his house for housing. Okay.

B (50:51)

How long will that last?

C (50:52)

And it's indefinite. You know, it's a God thing.

B (50:57)

Okay.

C (50:59)

You know he's a Christian. Christian dude who has taken in a couple of different people over the years.

B (51:05)

Unless he meets a lady.

C (51:07)

So.

B (51:07)

So it's not in depth indefinite.

A (51:09)

Okay.

C (51:09)

And that's what, yeah, that's what I keep telling him. I'm like, I wish that you would just meet somebody so that. So reason to move out.

B (51:15)

My, my point of saying that is I want to make sure that you're on proper financial footing if and when that happens or just anything changes and you know, you guys decide you want to part ways. So you've got the 43,000. 40 of it is in collections. 3,000 of it. You're still paying. What's your income? Every month.

C (51:34)

So I just. Actually today was my last day working for Liberty University Online Academy.

B (51:39)

Okay.

C (51:40)

And on the 25th, I'm going to start working for a local paper mill. And that's going to be $26 an hour. It's, it's roughly, it's 40 hours per pay period, but they do shift work. Eight hours overtime in, in each pay period. And then.

B (52:02)

So what will that be a month with the overtime and everything?

C (52:07)

I haven't actually run the numbers on that.

B (52:10)

Okay.

C (52:10)

I just know it's, it's, it's an $8 an hour pay increase from what I was making.

A (52:14)

Good.

B (52:15)

Okay.

C (52:15)

As of today.

B (52:16)

Okay, so let's say you're bringing home five, six thousand dollars a month. Does that feel right?

C (52:22)

Yeah, I think it'll be about that.

B (52:23)

Okay, so with that, that what I need you to do is you need an every dollar budget. Have, do you have one yet? Cuz if you don't, we'll give you one.

C (52:31)

I, I don't.

B (52:33)

Okay, so we're going to give you an every dollar budget. It's the best budgeting tool out there because not only is it going to help you understand what you're spending your money on every month, it's going to help you find margin. Okay. And when we give this app to people, I want you to understand this very clearly because this is going to blow your mind. When we give people this app, it's going to help you find up to $9,000 of margin in the first 15 minutes. One time margin, which means this is money that maybe you've been allocating in other places that are best suited for your debt situation right now. So that's the average number. Maybe you'll find five, maybe you'll find four, maybe you'll find 11. But you are going to find money and margin to put towards this $3,000 loan and hopefully knock it out really, really quickly. And then from there, the app is like having me or Ken in your pocket. It's going to tell you what to do based on if we were there with you. So we're going to give you that for free to try for a little while. And yeah, it's you walking the debt snowball once you find out. Okay, every month I have three, $4,000. You should have a lot because you don't have rent. I have $4,000 I can put towards this debt. How quickly can you pay off $40,000 with 4,000? Plus, you're going to settle this for half, right? So let's call it 20 really, really fast. Okay, so hang on the line. We'll get you set up with every dollar and walk this through one at a time.

A (53:52)

You know what will help people get out of that fast?

B (53:55)

What?

A (53:55)

If it's getting me out of their pocket, they'll get out fast. You've got a job, a dog, maybe a peloton, but no will. Come on, people. It's make a will month. Time to stop pretending you're immortal and start adulting like a pro. And here's the deal. A will isn't just for boomers with beach houses. It's for anyone who owns stuff or loves their people. And I assume that's you, because when.

B (54:30)

You die without a will, the state.

A (54:32)

Gets to decide who gets what. And spoiler alert, the state doesn't know who you. And that means your ex roommate could end up with your collection of vinyl. And the government might get final say on who raises your kids. That's not okay. And that's why I recommend Mama Bear Legal forms. It's the simple lawyer free way to get your will done in 20 minutes. And this August, you get 25% off for make a Will month. That's Mama Bear's biggest sale of the year. So stop with the I'll get to it someday excuses. Just get it done today@mamabearlegalforms.com and use the promo code Ramsey when you check out to get the discount again. That's mama bear legal forms.com offer ends August 31st at 11:59pm do not let the government Raise your kids or fight over your Mandalorian merch. Make a will today, mama bear. Legal forms.com promo code Ramsey. All right, let's go to Will in Milwaukee. Will, how can we help?

C (55:41)

Hi, yes, thanks so much for taking my call.

A (55:43)

Yeah, sure.

C (55:44)

So I'll give you the quick backstory. I'm 28 years old. My wife and I are debt free, except the house. We have about 180 grand in our retirement accounts. When we go do projections on what that's gonna turn into when we're 67, it's north of 8 million, even if we stop contribut. So we're contributing about 4,000amonth right now. And my question for you guys is, would it be unwise for us to start reallocating that 4,000amonth to help pay off the duplex that we're living in right now and eventually pay cash for the next one, all with the goal of creating some income that we can use to supplement in the years leading up to retirement?

B (56:21)

That's a really good question. So let's play this out based on how much of your. What portion of your income is the 4,000? Is that 15% percent of your.

C (56:31)

It's right around 15.

B (56:32)

Okay.

A (56:32)

Of gross.

C (56:34)

Correct.

B (56:35)

Okay. So you're proposing, hey, instead of putting this to retirement, I'd like to put this towards. Yeah, the real estate dream.

C (56:42)

Correct.

B (56:43)

Okay. I would not do that. Now, if you were Investing more than 15%, I would say, yeah, let's, let's pull it back to 15% and put the rest on the property. But it's so important, once you've reached the point that, that you've reached, right. You've paid off all of your debt and you freed up your biggest wealth building tool in order to do that. And so I love the idea of, you know, diversification. And you're doing that, right. If you're investing 15% through your 401k, you know, through a Roth IRA, you are diversifying that amongst your different funds. But you're also, if you're putting anything towards your mortgage, which you are, that is a forced savings account, which is also an investment investment. So you've got that working with you. Anything above and beyond that, I think it's going to throw you off track because here's the thing, you are going to retire one day, right, when you're in your 60s or your 50s or whatever you decide, and you're likely not going to sell the house that you're in immediately and use that money to retire on. Right. You're going to be living there. So giving time for your 401k or your, your Roth IRA to compound over time so that you can live off of that. That is important. And so if you stop contributing to that now. Do you see what I'm saying? You won't enjoy that growth in the future. So that's why we say at baby step four, invest that 15 of your gross income and then anything above and beyond that, now we're putting extra on the mortgage and we're paying off the mortgage. And once that's done, anything above and beyond that, now we can put it into new, new real estate properties that we can purchase. Does that sense? Make. Make sense?

C (58:15)

That does. Yeah. I guess my fear is struggling with money from 50 to 67, having a stacked retirement account and just counting down the days until I can touch that tax free.

B (58:28)

I understand, but why.

A (58:30)

I don't. Well, why would you be struggling?

B (58:32)

Because he doesn't have a bridge is what he's saying.

A (58:34)

But, but what about your income?

C (58:37)

There's, there's definitely our income. I guess it, it just feels like 67 and beyond are kind of covered. I'd like to start working backwards and cover from to 67 now.

A (58:48)

Well, okay. Well, I did have a question. Again, I don't understand that reasoning, but let me go back for a second. I thought I heard you say that you guys are living in a duplex.

C (58:58)

That's correct.

A (58:59)

So when you asked the question to us, so you're living in a duplex, you're living on one side and renting out the other.

C (59:06)

Yes, sir.

A (59:07)

How much do you owe on the duplex?

C (59:11)

430 and some changes. Change.

A (59:13)

Okay. And your question was, should you take that fourth out? So you were saying, do I stop baby step four, 15% and go all in on baby step six? Is that what I'm hearing you say?

C (59:24)

That's correct. Yep.

A (59:25)

Yeah. No, I agree. Jade's right. No, we don't just stop. And you're going to be thankful that for that because dude. But I. Here's So to that point, I guess I'm not understanding why you think that you're somehow going to be, be better off if you have two properties.

B (59:44)

He wants income producing. I know beyond, but how much? Nine and a half.

A (59:48)

I totally get it, but I'm playing out the call.

B (59:51)

Okay.

A (59:51)

What you said to us was, should I do this and get another property? So now you would have really two properties. The one you live in spitting off some rent and then another property spitting off some Rent. Am I still on the same page?

C (60:05)

Yeah, that's correct.

A (60:06)

Okay, how much would you anticipate that spinning off and income. Real number.

C (60:11)

So if we pay off the. The place we're living in right now, it would spit off 2500 and we would ideally buy a similar place that would spit off 5,000amonth.

A (60:21)

Okay, so that's $7,500 a month.

C (60:24)

That's correct.

A (60:24)

Okay, and how long is it going to take you? I'm going somewhere with this.

B (60:28)

I'm with you.

A (60:28)

How long would it take you to get to that place where you are now generating $7,500 a month from those two properties? How many years?

C (60:39)

Roughly eight to 10 years.

A (60:41)

My point exactly. You'd be better off continuing to do what Jay told you to do. And, and let's work on baby step six. All right, so let's pay it off. That's fine. But. But let's stay with the process. And so you're not going to take that, that, that 15% a month and not invest it? Continue to invest that. But if you're wanting to make more money, I think you'd be better off. Off just following our plan and think about how much of a raise you're going to get when you get done with baby step six. So let's just take that. How long before you're done with baby step six? You paid off this current home?

C (61:17)

Four years is the goal.

A (61:18)

Okay, so four years. So in four years you get a nice raise, correct?

C (61:23)

Yeah.

A (61:24)

Okay, that's 2,500amonth? If I was paying attention, yes. Okay. And then what about our income? What do we both do? What are our jobs? Jobs?

C (61:32)

I'm in sales and my wife is a physical therapist.

A (61:35)

You're in sales? Sales is. Is the greatest industry in the world for rate. Making more money. What kind of. What are you doing?

C (61:43)

I sell a feed additive for cows.

A (61:47)

Well, I don't know anything about the feed additive market, but tell me, is there room for growth?

C (61:53)

There's room for growth. I guess my dilemma is I don't want to do it forever. I'd like to do sales in a different industry.

A (61:59)

Great. Oh, this is a great idea. So you know what we do there? We start today building that bridge. What. What industry would you like to be in?

C (62:08)

I'd like to be in the real estate business. Clear.

A (62:10)

Real estate. Great.

B (62:11)

Yeah.

A (62:12)

So now let's. Let's go get our real estate license. How long will that take and how much will it cost?

C (62:18)

It's in the works right now. A Couple hundred bucks, maybe six months left.

A (62:22)

Okay, great. And when you're done with that, I want you to call Buffini and Company, my good friends Brian and Dermot Buffini and that company, the number one real estate training company in the world, and do everything that they offer, and you're going to become a high performer. And now we're going to be looking back on this phone call on this day, and we're going to go, man, I was selling myself short by trying to make an additional $7,500 a month and shortchanging myself when I'm older. And I'm going to be crazy wealthy. So I love your spirit, I love your aim. You're just misguided in your plan to get there. So work the baby steps and let's go make more money. If I want more money now, before I'm 67 and drawn from retirement, I'm going to go make more money. And here's what's.

B (63:05)

Great.

A (63:05)

Great. Well, you've already got a great plan to do that. Real estate. There's no cap on that.

B (63:10)

No cap. Plus, here's the other thing. Once you get to the point where you if to Ken's point, if you continue to grow your income and you're still investing 15% of that, what's going to happen is you're going to start maxing out your 401k and you're going to look for somewhere else that you can invest. And maybe you'll look over and do like a little brokerage account that if you do decide, decide to retire from your job early, before 59 and a half, that will spit off some money for you as well. So all of this has a win, win potential over the long haul. Ken, you're a magician, by the way.

A (63:43)

Why?

B (63:44)

Because you crafted that call. You just, you turned it in, you did a little abracadabra, and it turned into a work.

C (63:51)

Wow.

B (63:51)

It turned into.

A (63:52)

Well, you know, I appreciate the kind words. Will. Are you tracking with me?

C (63:56)

I am. Yeah. That makes sense.

A (63:57)

Yeah. Let's listen. Great. Your hunger is where it needs to be now. Let's just put all of our focus on winning in the transition to real estate. Crush it, enjoy life, and you're going to be a very, very wealthy old guy. Love it. It's going to be fun.

C (64:11)

Got it.

A (64:12)

Yeah. Thanks for the call. Yeah, I. Well, thanks. I don't know what. I didn't think it was very magical. It was just like, wait a second. Yeah, he's all focused on the hat. I'm gonna Try to use my baby step four money to max out. And I'm like, that's not that big of a play.

B (64:25)

Yeah, let's get more money. Money.

A (64:27)

I'm not sneezing at 7,500amonth, but it was going to take eight years.

B (64:31)

That's facts.

A (64:31)

And by, by the way, if he's a real estate professional, next year he should be making 7,500amonth. Clock it easy, you know. So anyway, there it is folks. Don't out think all of this. I got to tell you, I love when people call and they think that there was a caveat in the baby steps. Old, old Dave didn't think about this one right here. And it just. They work. The baby steps work.

B (64:58)

They do.

A (64:58)

And if you're a new listener, save yourself the time and energy of calling us up and trying to re engineer them.

B (65:04)

It ain't happening.

A (65:05)

It's not happening. You're wrong. We're right. And so therefore let's just cut our losses.

B (65:10)

That was the perfect. I said it ain't happening. You said it's not happening.

A (65:39)

All right. The Ramsey so question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi defaulted private student loans can wreck your peace of mind, your finances and your relationships. Why Refi offers hope with custom refinancing based on your unique situation and ability to pay. Visit yrefi.comramsey today. That's the letter y r e f y.com ramsey. It is not available in all states.

B (66:02)

Okay, today's question comes from Greg in Minnesota. He says we're on baby step three and saving for our three to six month emergency fund. We are consumer debt free and just purchased a home last year. That is within our budget. I'm looking for advice on whether it's okay to add Botox for my wife. Hey, now into our budget so that she or that. Let's see into our budget or if that should be held off until we have three to six months saved. I've heard Botox is expensive and I don't want to stray from our system by adding on on any ongoing payments to our budget. Our current home. I'm sorry, this is wild to me. Our current home income is 150000 and we currently have 35000 in our emergency fund and any insight would be appreciated.

A (66:51)

Okay, how much does Botox cost?

B (66:54)

I don't know because I don't need it yet. Hey.

A (66:56)

Okay.

B (66:57)

Well, look at you.

A (66:58)

She's fabulous. It all right. Yes. You just said that. I love it. Can we Say that you just did.

B (67:05)

I did.

A (67:06)

You just did. And I have no problem with it.

B (67:08)

All right, here we are. He's got 35,000 saved now. I don't know.

A (67:12)

He says his income is 150.

B (67:14)

Yeah.

A (67:15)

So three to six months there. Let's see. What are we talking about? What's a net on 150?

B (67:20)

Oh, it depends on the state, but let's just say you're bringing in, I don't know, 12,000amonth. Now, here's where. Here's what I want to remind people about with the baby steps. And when it comes specifically to baby step three, it's your basic budget, okay? It's not. It's not you trying to 6x your income, if that makes sense. Do you know what I mean? Like, what you bring home for that month. That's not what we're talking about. We're saying, okay, when I do my budget, there's the things that I need to do, and then there's some of the things I want to do, and then there's all the extra miscellaneous. When you're doing your. Your emergency fund, it's kind of what must be true to make the household run. That's what we're looking for. So my guess is that he's pretty close to being there. Now, Botox.

A (68:05)

Here we go. I've done a little research.

B (68:07)

What do you got, Ken?

A (68:09)

This is, of course, you know, some AI Chat GPT stuff. Here we go. The average cost for regular Botox treatment can range. Now, this is where this gets crazy, but this gives you something to work with. Can range from 200 to $1200 per session. So methinks that.

B (68:25)

$1200 per se, though, how often?

A (68:29)

Well, it just says procession. So this comes down to your vanity. It's not like, you know, okay, generally, Prices range from $10 to $25 per unit, and most people require between 20 to 60 units for common treatment areas like forehead lines, crow's feet. Let me tell you something.

B (68:46)

How often do you get the units? Is it like every.

A (68:49)

No, no, it's up to you. There is no.

B (68:51)

Kelly is saying, like, every single six months is kind of.

A (68:54)

Oh, is that right? Every six months?

B (68:55)

Yeah, give or take. And I have a couple friends who have said something like that, but I.

A (68:58)

Think that boils down to, again, how vain you are. And listen, how deep your roots. Okay, I got people in the audience out here going three months every three months.

B (69:06)

And is that cost You're.

A (69:09)

Every three months. Oh, this is great. We're talking through the glass but we're getting real time info.

B (69:14)

It's real, real time info.

A (69:15)

Okay, so run the numbers on every three months.

B (69:17)

Every three months.

A (69:18)

And so let me ask you a question. The 200 to $1,200 per session, how close to that are you? Are you on the low end or high end?

B (69:28)

About, I can't read, about 700 bucks. Okay, so let's say, let's just pretend she's spending $700 every three months.

A (69:36)

Yeah, you got a budget for it.

B (69:38)

You got a budget for it. And I think that, you know, they've got their house, they're in baby step four. This is the time where you can do you start to live your life because you're out of debt. They've got three to six.

A (69:51)

You don't have a problem with that? No. Do you? Based on what we know about their income, I don't.

B (69:56)

As long as they're not going into debt for it. Here's, here's, let me go through the framework about knowing how to spend. Okay, so it's kind of these, these five questions that you ask yourself. So the first one is, am I a person who's budgeting? Do I budget my money? Yes, I budget my money. Okay, that's a green light. Next one is am I a person who's out of debt and pro, you know, lives a debt free lifestyle? Yes, that's a green light. Next question is, have I, do I have the proper insurances in place? If you do life insurance, all your other insurances. Yes, that's a green light. Next thing is, am I a person who's saving for the future? Well, yeah, you are. You've got your three to six months. You're about to start on your baby step four as soon as that's done. Yeah, you're a person who's doing what we teach in line with baby steps. And finally, am I a person who's prioritizing general generosity? If you're doing those five things now, it means that if you have something pop up like this, should I take that little trip to Disney? Should I do the Botox? Should I, you know, get a new couch? Likely, as long as it sticks in your budget. And you're not going into debt because we already said you're a debt free person. The answer is likely yes, because you've proven that you're a financially responsible adult. And this is just called fun things that you get to do when you're a financially responsible adult. So I, I methinks the answer is yay.

A (71:15)

So that's so, Kelly, by the way, I was. I was doing more research as Jade was breaking that down. You're right. The typical effects of Botox last three to four months. So if we do the three month thing. Way to go, Kelly. I know. You don't need it. She's. She's young and very young and looks lovely.

B (71:34)

Excellent.

A (71:35)

I needed to make sure I mentioned that I think she was.

B (71:36)

Have you tried it?

A (71:37)

No, I'm not putting that in my face.

B (71:39)

Try it.

A (71:40)

Why? Wrinkles on a man are signs of failure or wisdom.

B (71:46)

Why is that?

A (71:47)

I'm not ashamed of either.

B (71:48)

It's so funny when guys get older, they're like. The age is like, oh, yes, this is a good thing. Yeah.

A (71:54)

I'll tell you what else I'm not doing. I'm not coloring my hair either.

B (71:56)

Never.

A (71:56)

Never.

B (71:57)

Okay.

A (71:58)

I'm not gonna do it, man.

B (71:59)

You're gonna go silver fox.

A (72:00)

I. I don't. I don't want to offend anybody that does the Botox, but I. It cannot be good for you.

B (72:06)

I. I do feel like it is. Looks better on when. When men get their face pulled.

A (72:11)

Let me tell you. Okay, now, I'm. All right. I'm going out on a limb, cuz. I don't mind.

B (72:15)

Go for it, Ken.

A (72:16)

This is my opinion.

B (72:17)

Testify.

A (72:18)

This is not a Ramsey show. Official opinion, okay? But as a guy, I don't think Botox makes ladies look better. It makes them look like they have Botox. In other words, I look at them and I go, she. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm loving. Listen, I love La Landman. It's one of my favorite shows. Demi Moore, okay? Demi Moore is beautiful. She's older. It's very obvious to me that Demi Moore has got.

B (72:42)

Because she went too far. When you do it right, no one even knows. How do you know? Cuz I'm a woman king.

A (72:48)

You've not done it.

B (72:49)

But I know the women who have done it. And when they do it right, no one is. They're none the wiser.

A (72:54)

All right? So I'm going to. I'm going to revise my opinion.

B (72:56)

Okay? Revise.

A (72:56)

For those of you women who aren't doing it right, we know because when you. You laugh, nothing changes. Nothing. And I don't think that's normal. I feel like I'm looking at a Madame Tussaud wax museum figure. Okay, that's not natural.

B (73:11)

Let's go deeper in the hole, because we're in it now.

A (73:14)

Natural beauty.

B (73:15)

We're in the hole now, Ken.

A (73:16)

No, I'M not.

B (73:17)

No, not you. We. Because we're talking about it, we're gonna take it a step further.

A (73:21)

I like where this is going.

B (73:23)

Okay.

A (73:23)

This is question of the day. The Y Refi folks are getting their money's worth. I'm telling you right now.

B (73:28)

So I do think that when you do Botox and invest in getting it right, you can do it if you're doing it right. No one really knows. And you started early enough to where no one knew you had wrinkles that disappeared in the first place.

A (73:39)

I'm cynical now.

B (73:41)

The thing we really need to talk about is these lip injections.

A (73:44)

Oh, no, that's completely obvious. It looks like you got stung by a bee and you've having a reaction.

B (73:49)

That's what I've been saying.

A (73:50)

It, it's ridiculous.

B (73:51)

So what we're saying is let's reallocate this money. Women. No more lip injections. Reallocate that money.

A (73:58)

Something else that is a foreign substance. Yes or no?

B (74:01)

Yes, it's a foreign substance. It. It, it's a paralysis. It par. It paralyzes the muscle. That's what it is.

A (74:10)

I just got to tell you, we all know. And so if the point is to try to look better and it's not. No, you all are failing.

B (74:17)

Not all the people who do it right. And I'm trying to tell you there's people who do it right.

A (74:24)

I. Okay, I just say. I'm just saying. I, I. Why can't we just be natural?

B (74:29)

Because we can't.

A (74:31)

James will say something. James, new segment is called kinsplaining and it's going to be a regular thing we do.

B (74:36)

Explaining. I like it.

A (74:37)

Kinsplaining.

B (74:38)

Okay. How do you feel about.

A (74:40)

I'm pro woman.

B (74:41)

How do you feel about a man who gets like hair plugs or like does something like that?

A (74:47)

I got a different position on that because.

B (74:49)

Cuz you can tell cuz if it's back here.

A (74:51)

No, not if you get it back here. You can't. Now if you get a hairline, like my hairline has been receding for quite some time. I'm very aware of it. But if I show up next week and it's an inch down here, we all know something's not right.

B (75:03)

But if it looks good, Ken, I would support you today.

A (75:05)

But that's my hairline. It used to be there. So that I go for. Because the hairline was there, I'm restoring it. Your lips never looked like a raft ever. Buying or selling a home is a very big deal. And with the clickbait headlines and conflicting data that's flying all around. It's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. And we want to always, here at the Ramsey show, be on the front of all this junk and tell you the truth, not just use clickbait stuff. So median home prices stayed steady last month at about 441,000. The number of homes for sale hit 1 million for the second month in a row. And the 15 year fixed rate also held steady at 5.95% last month. So if you're debt free, have a fully funded emergency fund and a solid down payment, now is a good time to buy or sell. To learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence. We got you covered. Go to ramseysolutions.com Market ramseysolutions.com Market or you can click the link on the show notes in podcast and YouTube. And by the way, I want to just mention, we give you a lot of information every show. The Show Notes. The Show Notes. The Show Notes. All right. I call it James Child's treasure trove. All right, he's got it all there. It's. He just has it there for you. So don't ever fret if you don't hear us properly or you forget what we told you about Show Notes. Have it all. Lucy, you like that?

B (76:57)

I thought that. I don't know how I feel about that.

A (76:59)

He didn't. He. I can tell you he did not like it. Lucy is up in Akron, Ohio. Lucy, how, how can we help?

C (77:07)

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. If I disappear suddenly, it's because my son had another blowout. I'm pulling him on my hip right now.

A (77:15)

What?

B (77:15)

Okay. She's got a little baby on your hip. A blowout?

C (77:18)

Yeah, he's a month old. In case anything goes wrong.

A (77:26)

Listen, we can handle a blowout. In fact, if we hurt it, it would really wake America up. That would be even more. More fun. Which I'm here for. That. That doesn't phase me at all, all right?

C (77:37)

I make no promises.

A (77:39)

Okay?

C (77:39)

So the question we have for you is my husband and I, we want to buy a 12 or even 15 passenger van. To future proof for our family, the problem is right now we only have two kids. We have a toddler and Will over here, he's an infant.

B (77:54)

And you already want a 15 passenger van. You got major plans.

A (78:00)

I'm more concerned less about the plan of the van, but the process of having that many kids. You got a little Guy that's experiencing blowouts on your hip. Let's take our time. Mom, what are we in a hurry for?

B (78:11)

Yeah, by the time we have the fancy.

A (78:13)

In all seriousness, stop this madness of planning for something that doesn't exist.

B (78:17)

Yeah, by the time you fill the van, the van's gonna be old. Like it's gonna be 15 years old.

C (78:24)

That's part of why I'm calling. The other part of it is we do have reasons why we're looking for a big, like a literally big vehicle. We have a collection of seven uncles. The only one under six foot right now is 14 and he is rapidly approaching six foot. So we have, we have big family genes also. My youngest two siblings are 11 and 14. They just started at a very go back one.

A (78:53)

I'm lost on the seven uncles.

B (78:55)

Seven, six foot tall uncles. How often are you transporting these uncles?

C (79:00)

That was more for context of how big our children will likely be. We shut up.

A (79:05)

You thought she was going to drive the uncles.

B (79:08)

Listen, what's crazier? What's crazier? What is crazier? Me asking about if she's driving the 7 foot uncles or her assuming she's going to have 157 foot children 15 years before they're even born.

A (79:22)

Yeah, I. Lucy, fair point. Now that Jade, now that Jade is caught up with the same call that I'm on. I think she's right. What is that again? We, you literally. I went, this is what happened. I want you to hear what happened. Jade. Ken, should I buy, should my husband and I buy a 15 foot passenger or whatever for 15 kids? We only have two. Okay. And I went, well, that's a little silly. Maybe we shouldn't be thinking about that. And your response was, well, here's the other reason. We have seven uncles that are all six foot or taller. So we're going to need a lot of leg room. Thus, that's why we. Well, these kids are babies.

C (79:56)

Right? I have, I have more reasons to get to though.

B (80:00)

Okay, go ahead. You're over two.

A (80:02)

You've got two strikes. What's the third reason for a massive van?

C (80:07)

Well, first of all, I run a youth group so I would like to take the kids two places all in one vehicle to make it easier for everybody.

A (80:16)

That's not your problem. That's not your problem. That's the church problem. Somebody needs to donate a van.

C (80:23)

You're correct.

A (80:23)

I know that's three strikes. What's next? I'll give you up to five. Let's go four. Reason number four, that you need to empty your emergency fund for this, which is not an emergency. None of these are emergencies. And not only are they not emergency, they're bad reasons. Give me two more.

C (80:41)

So we want to go on. We want to go on vacations. We want to be able to tow a pop up camper perhaps, like I said, take the younger siblings and have space for them. Well, and the other problem is the other cars that we have are in varying states of disrepair and so we're trying to plan ahead for that.

A (81:00)

Okay, so those are a little bit closer, but again, not a reason to. None of these are emergencies and none of this is a good financial decision right now. If we can't afford to tow a camper, then we change our vacation plan and we go rent a place, a cabin in the woods. So I mean, like, I don't know why. Jadis, she's gone. The church giggle is in full effect. Lucy, do you understand what I'm saying? Like, none of these constitute doing what you think you need to do. Like, let's just be patient. Let's fund these things. So where would you put yourself on the baby steps? Right now?

C (81:35)

We are about at baby step four, we were investing 7% and we temporarily brought it to 8 or not 8%. That didn't make any sense. Zero percent. So we could stack the cash for the cars because of the condition that they're in right now.

A (81:52)

Okay, so our. So so our next step is we need to plan for a car. So we've got a sinking fund going to take care of the first car situation. Correct. Are we going to have one?

C (82:03)

Correct.

A (82:03)

Yeah, that's the play right now, not the gigantic van. Now when the day arrives, God bless your soul, if you've got 12 kids, then we deal with that. But not right now. No, we've got continue the baby steps and then along the way, if we've got to replace a car, then that's what we begin to focus on. But don't change the formula, okay? Because we want you to continue to win even when life stuff happens. And we need to never touch the emergency fund unless it is an absolute four alarm emergency. You with me?

C (82:39)

I am, I am.

A (82:39)

Okay.

C (82:40)

I can tell you about the other cars if that helps understand why we're looking at a car now.

A (82:45)

Yeah. Okay. Okay. So you. Do you need to replace the car now? Are we in that kind of a situation? We were. We have multiple cars that are not running.

C (82:54)

We have a 2010 Ford Focus which is the most reliable thing we have right now. And it started shifting A little weird. So we're a little, a little wary. What does that mean when you say.

B (83:05)

It started to be weird? Is that it's making a clank, clank noise. The brakes don't, don't work. I mean, what does that actually mean?

C (83:12)

It's had a couple funks. It's had a couple funks when it went to shift. So it makes us worried about the transmission.

B (83:18)

Okay.

C (83:18)

I forget how many miles it has on it, but I think it's like.

A (83:21)

Okay, what's the second?

C (83:22)

A lot.

A (83:22)

All right, real quick, what's the second car?

C (83:25)

2007 Toyota Forerunner that's going to the shop on Sunday.

B (83:30)

What's it going to the shop for?

C (83:33)

It is singing opera on the highway. We don't even know what the problem is.

B (83:36)

Singing. So it's making a high pitched score squealing noise.

C (83:40)

Not even squealing. It is changing pitch as we break, but then not when we break. It's very weird.

B (83:45)

Okay.

C (83:46)

My dad's a mechanic. He doesn't even recognize it. Hence the shop.

B (83:49)

Okay, so there's part of this where I just feel like you are going to extremes on many of the things that you're saying. Yeah, right. You went, you jumped straight to the 15 passenger van. We jumped straight to this. And now we're assuming that, that you know, you, you take these cars to the, the mechanic and all hell will break loose. Right. Maybe it's just a normal repair.

A (84:12)

By the way, a Toyota 4Runner, it might require some work, but those are known to drive forever. How many, how many miles you got on the four run?

C (84:20)

We bought it.

A (84:21)

How many miles you have?

C (84:24)

You know, my husband is listening to the live, so he might text me how many miles.

A (84:27)

Oh, hi.

B (84:28)

I don't remember.

A (84:29)

But okay, here's my point.

C (84:31)

It is, it is also higher in mileage. Quite high.

A (84:34)

Okay, well, again, you guys have the money, otherwise good. But here's the thing. You have the money set aside to pay for those repairs. And so if that buys you time on that, great. And then let's take a look at the Ford Focus and go, what's the cost to fix that? We probably have the money to fix that. And now we then begin the discipline process of a sinking fund to replace one. And then the second car, that's the Focus, not a gigantic van that we actually don't need, but we're going to try to talk ourselves into because we'd like to drag something along behind it. Let's just stay simple right now because you got a lot going on and Take care of that little guy and his sour stomach. Hope that all works out. We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it. You got to have a plan. You got to be intentional. And you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went. Our budgeting app, Every Dollar, helps you do just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan. For every dollar you've got coming in and going out, now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan. Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. This is the Ramsey show where America hangs out to talk about their money, their work, and their relationships. And we're glad you've joined us today. Triple 882-55-5225 is the phone number. Triple 882-55-2225, alongside the incomparably fabulous Jay Borshaw. I'm just Ken. Isn't that the name of the song in the movie?

B (86:45)

Just Ken.

A (86:46)

I'm just Ken. Hey, thrilled that you guys are with us and we're getting started right here with Andrew in Seattle. Andrew, how can we help?

C (86:55)

Hey, guys, and thank you for taking my call.

A (86:57)

Sure.

C (86:59)

So I've got a kind of question. I've always been kind of money. I wouldn't say illiterate, but not me and money were never big friends. So I've been following your plan for about three months. I'm midway to my snowball.

A (87:15)

Okay.

C (87:16)

So my question is I'm 56 years old and I've taken. I've stopped my 401k so I could basically get my snowball rolling good. I've got two debts left to pay off. One is a credit card of 6300. The other one's my car loan for 24,875. So my question is, once I get the credit card paid off, which is going to be somewhere around January, the car is going to take me another year, maybe year and a couple of months to pay that off. Should I put my money back into my 401k prior to paying off the car? Because with my age, I haven't put a ton of money into my 401k. I've only got about 150,000 in total assets so far, plus a mortgage.

B (88:11)

What is that? What is that, 150,000?

C (88:13)

15. So I've got about 100,000 in a IRA from another previous employment. And then with this employer, I've got a 401k of roughly about 58,000.

B (88:27)

Okay. I can under. I can appreciate that feeling of wanting to take care, you know, take advantage of that compound interest as quickly as possible. But yeah, you have to remember that this debt, as long as you have this debt in your life, it's going to keep you from going further, faster, faster. And so by paying it off, we're allowing us to focus our all of our resources and all of our intentions at one thing at a time. And because of that, it's going to allow us to go faster and accomplish more as opposed to saying, well, I'm kind of going to pay off the debt, but I'm going to also keep investing. Over here, you got to think about it. The way I like to think about it is if I have a pitcher of water and several glasses that I have to fill up. It takes me forever to fill up the glasses. If I put a drop in each one as I go. But if I just go ahead and fill one up, that one's full. I can set it to the side it's done with, and now I can focus all of my attention on the filling up, filling up, filling up the next glass. So that's kind of how I like to think of it. Let's talk about this in, in real numbers for a minute. It kind of bothered me that you said it's going to take you till January to pay off the 6,000 in credit cards. Tell me more about what your margin is and what you're making every single month.

C (89:40)

So I'm in the snowball. I'm putting about 1800 towards the credit card. Once that's done, I'll be putting 2,000 towards the car. So I have roughly right now about 1800 to play with to push towards these debts. The car loan itself is 395amonth. So once the credit card is done, I'll have that 800 plus the 300 and change to put back towards the car.

B (90:10)

Okay.

C (90:11)

And that's about as flexible as I can really get past all my other normal bills.

B (90:16)

Are you side hustling mortgage?

C (90:19)

What's that?

B (90:20)

Are you doing a side hustle, picking up some extra money?

C (90:24)

No, I don't really have time to do that. I mean, I wish I could. I wish I had like a Passive income that I could actually do.

B (90:31)

No, not passive, massive. But explain to me more about. So you're 56. Are you single?

C (90:38)

No.

B (90:38)

Okay, so married.

C (90:40)

So I have a housewife. Yeah.

B (90:42)

Okay, a housewife. Okay.

A (90:44)

Is she your wife or is that a position?

B (90:46)

Yeah.

C (90:49)

So I have a wife. She's currently not working at the moment.

B (90:54)

Why isn't she working?

C (90:55)

Oh, she's trying to get together a photography department business. And right now it's very sparse here.

B (91:05)

Yeah, right here's. Here's where Here. And Ken. Ken is going to say the same matter of fact. Why don't you say Ken?

A (91:11)

Well, I just, I'm going to immediately go, what has she done in her, in her work past that she can leverage from a skill and experience standpoint to go make some decent money right now? This speeds this up fast. If she's, if she's making somewhere between. Let's just lowball it, 35, $40,000 a year, that's a game changer. You to want would agree.

C (91:30)

Oh, I totally agree.

A (91:31)

Well, let's press pause on the fledgling photography business. And she can mess around on the weekends at night and take pictures and get better and, you know, all that kind of stuff and not like completely, you know, abandon it, but as it, as it relates to a business, you know, what, what has she done in the past? What kind of work has she done?

C (91:51)

She was doing quality control in like a insurance company that basically moved out of Washington.

A (91:58)

What was she making?

C (92:00)

Photography.

A (92:01)

What was she making?

C (92:04)

Like 40 grand a year? Yeah, somewhere around there.

A (92:07)

Dude, are we not on the same page here?

C (92:11)

We totally are. But you have pause on the same page with you.

B (92:16)

What's your pause?

C (92:17)

I've always paid for the, for the home and our bills and everything, and she's kept her bills and whatnot herself. So currently, you know, I'm handling it all. So it hasn't, that hasn't changed. It's mainly my retirement I'm trying to push towards. So when I know that I'm retired, I've got enough nest egg for her to survive even if she doesn't have work.

B (92:44)

So here's the thing. We can, if you can continue to silo it off and it's. And make it. It's my job to do this. I'm the one who's to going to do this. You're cutting off 50% of your ending income potential because she's your partner.

A (92:58)

Yeah. What I heard you not say is that, Ken, you and I are on the same page, but my wife is not on that page, Is that it?

C (93:09)

I wouldn't exactly say that. No. I, she's. She's definitely want to, and she feels bad that she's not.

A (93:16)

Well, let's not feel bad about it, but let's feel motivated to go and let's get a job. She needs to get, get a job.

B (93:23)

Yeah. Because here, let's just play this out for a, for a moment. So you told me you're concerned about retirement. You got a thousand bucks in the IRA or 100,000 bucks in the IRA, 56 years old. So let's just pretend. Let's pretend this year you were able to knock out the debt because your wife gets a job and you kill it. You find a way to bring in some extra income as well, and you guys pay off the 6,000 in credit cards and you're able to somehow knock out the $25,000 car between now and let's say February, right? And then you turn around and say, you know what? We're going to start contributing a thousand dollars a month into our retirement. If you do that, from age 56 to 67, you're going to have about $550,000. Okay, that's, that's pretty good. But that is with her working and her adding to this, right? Because the hope is that you guys can continue to increase your income and instead of investing, I don't know, a thousand thousand dollars. A thousand dollars a month, maybe you can bust it up to 1200. You know what I'm saying? $1200 a month and you can get that closer to 600, 000. Right? So every little bit counts in this equation to getting you guys to a point that you can retire with dignity. But she's a big part of that. She's 50% of the puzzle here.

A (94:37)

That's right. So, hey, let's band together, and boy, these, these numbers change very, very quickly on all sides, right? We pay off the debt faster, we start piling retirement money faster. Let's do this together, lock arms, and let's go.

C (95:09)

Foreign.

A (95:14)

To put off making a will. And believe me, I've heard every excuse in the book. But not having the time is one excuse we can kick to the curb right now. Because these days, most folks can make a legally binding will on their laptop between loads of laundry. If you're wondering if you can make your will online or if you need a lawyer, we have a quiz to help you figure that out in less than five minutes. Just go to Ramseysolutions.com willsquiz ramseysolutions.com willsquiz hey, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feel like you can't get ahead, we'd love for you to join one of our free EveryDollar trainings. We have a new training every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and find $9,000 of margin using the EveryDollar budget app. It's fantastic. If you have any questions during the live Q and A, you get a chance to ask them. That's always fun and it's free. You can sign up@ramseysolutions.com webinar ramseysolutions.com webinar Bob is joining us now in Ohio. Bob, how can we help today?

C (96:41)

Yeah, hi. I want to know what my next step should be. My wife and I, we've been doing the baby steps for the past year and a half and we are almost done with baby step number two.

A (96:56)

Awesome.

C (96:58)

We have about $4,000 of medical bills left and then it's just, and then it's just our mortgage. That being said, in March, my wife got let go from work. And you know, she's got all these health issues with clotting disorders and seizures and such, so she's not currently working. And last month we found out that my 13 year old has a malignant brain tumor. So he's, he's going through chemo. And I guess my question is, with my wife not working, should we, should we stop with the baby steps for now and just pile up cash or.

B (97:57)

Yeah, yeah. You guys, you're getting hit hard right now and the baby steps are really important, but during times like this, yeah, you gotta hit pause. And right now the sole focus for you guys is getting well and fighting cancer and fighting, you know, the things that your, your wife is dealing with as well. The good news is you, you guys understood the assignment several months ago, a year ago, and paid off the majority of your debt. And it's put you in a really, really great position now to be able to push pause and to be able to focus on health. What is when? Let's talk about what it means to pile up cash and kind of put some, some real numbers to that. So what's your family out of pocket max every year?

C (98:46)

All right, when you say out of pocket max, you mean the, the maximum.

B (98:50)

Amount that you'll pay, pay beyond your deductible. For some people, that number is the same as their deductible for some people. It could be slightly more.

C (99:00)

Okay. So actually, when my wife got laid off, we had insurance through her work. Now we have state Medicaid, I think.

B (99:10)

Okay. Okay.

C (99:11)

So we, we don't have a deductible or co pays and as far as I know, all of his chemo treatments are going to be covered.

A (99:23)

Good, that's great.

C (99:24)

We just have to make sure, you know, we get the pre authorization.

A (99:29)

What was she making and what was she doing before she was laid off?

C (99:33)

So she was an accounting coordinator and I think she was making about 19 an hour full time.

A (99:40)

Okay. And with all those health issues that you mentioned for her, is she able to. To work?

C (99:46)

So her neurologist says that she shouldn't work right now and she's not allowed to drive because of her seizures.

A (99:55)

Okay, so what about your income? What's your income?

C (99:58)

My income is 20 bucks an hour, so roughly 40,000 gross.

A (100:05)

What do you do?

C (100:07)

Mechanic.

A (100:08)

On cars?

C (100:09)

Yes. Okay.

A (100:11)

Is there overtime options for you?

C (100:15)

There is overtime, but I work at my dad's auto shop, so. And it's just me and him. It's a very small business. The, the business itself can't afford to pay time and a half.

A (100:30)

Right. Let me ask you, this is if, and I'm not suggesting this, but I gotta poke in on this. How can we make more income right now? If you were not working for your dad in this small shop, what could you make in your area as a mechanic? Could you make more?

C (100:53)

I could.

A (100:55)

And would you have time and a half options there?

C (100:59)

Yes. That being said, before my son got diagnosed, I started flipping cars. Buy, fix and resell.

A (101:10)

Yeah.

C (101:12)

And I just sold. I just sold a car. And that put about. That put about 6,500 in our account.

A (101:21)

Good.

B (101:22)

All of that was that 6,500? All of that was profit?

C (101:26)

No.

B (101:26)

How much of it was profit?

C (101:29)

About 2,500.

B (101:31)

Okay. And how long does it take you to flip a car?

C (101:35)

Well, so it was a new venture and that was my first flip and it took about three months.

A (101:43)

Okay, I, I want you to pause the flip situation just because there is risk involved. And I know, I'm not even going to suggest that you leave your dad's shop, but I do think you've got to consider overtime when it means. What I mean by that is working for somebody else, finding some side projects where you can do mechanical work. I think that will help with this process, but because where I'm going with this is to the extent that you can replacing your wife's income is a goal because that's a pretty big hit.

B (102:14)

You just took, right? I mean, it's half the income.

A (102:19)

That's exactly right. And you're going through this now. I'm glad you have your son's bills covered. That's great. And seems like you'd have her medic medical stuff covered as well.

B (102:28)

Is there a.

A (102:28)

We still need more income.

B (102:30)

Is there a cure in the future for your wife? Is the there something that you guys are working towards where she. They can, you know, put those seizures on hold, or is there. Is there a.

C (102:41)

Well, they've got her on medication and they're trying to figure out the correct dosage for that, but also they want to figure out what's causing the seizures first.

B (102:54)

Understand? Okay. So she's got, she's got some time ahead of her, but before she's back in the game.

C (103:02)

And the neurologist said that, said that she shouldn't drive for a minimum of six months after her last seizure.

B (103:13)

Okay. Okay, understood. So she's. We're looking for work from home positions. We're working, looking for things that she can do on her own time, create her own schedule. And, and you know, if she takes a job and something happens and she's let go, then so be it. But I don't think we should allow it to, you know, stop her from looking for things.

A (103:35)

I agree. More income right now does, Does a couple things. Number one, it, it's. It stacks cash for whatever additional treatments may be needed that you would fund. But it also puts you in a good position that once we hopefully get the all clear here that you're not only paying off debt, but you're got that fully funded emergency fund.

C (103:57)

Okay?

A (103:58)

So, yes, pause the baby steps for right now because you really only have the one $4,000 medical debt. And I, I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't be opposed to you calling them up and telling them your situation, seeing.

B (104:09)

If they'll clear some of that.

A (104:10)

Yeah, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a stab at that to go, look, here's the deal, okay? This is what happened to my wife. This is her, her condition. This is what the doctors have told her. And so, and she was laid off. She couldn't, she can't do a normal thing anyway. And then here's what's going on with my son. And we, we're going to take care of this at some point, but right now we can't. We've got a, We've got a batten down the hatches. And let's see how, if we got a really nice, sweet, kind, reasonable person on the other end of that phone, that might work with you on that. But yes, stack cash right now. But in order for you to stack cash, you got to go make more or your wife's got to do something from home that she's able to do because your income just got cut in half.

C (104:49)

Right. And we did just, we just paid off the last of our credit cards last week.

A (104:56)

Great job.

C (104:58)

And we called them up and explained the situation and they were willing to settle for a lower amount.

A (105:04)

Great.

B (105:04)

You could, I mean, you can try the same thing with the credit cards or with the medical, medical debt. I just think that right now, even if they cut it in half, that $2,000 is money that you need to stack up and see if they'll just hold that deal for you. Say, will you just get this for me in writing and as soon as things kind of pick back up, we'll send you the money, that kind of thing. I'm sorry that you're going through this really tough.

A (105:26)

Hang in there, Bob. It's going to get better and you guys have done the right thing. You're a good man. You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramseysolutions.com smartvestor to get connected. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn more@ramseysolutions.com hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Go to our show notes, click on the link titled are you on track with the baby baby steps. Complete the quiz and that'll give you a quick update and next steps and that'll help you if you feel like you've stalled out. Caleb is joining us now in Atlanta, Georgia. Caleb, how can we help?

C (107:10)

Hey, how are you doing?

A (107:11)

Good, sir.

C (107:13)

Thanks for having me on. Yeah, my question's pretty, pretty simple. My, my mom, my father passed away about a year ago and my mom has just sold the house. House and so she basically, basically got a mom who's got about 1200 in Social Security coming in and it will have about a hundred and twenty thousand in the bank and that's everything. No house, gotta rent something. That's kind of her situation. So that money in the bank. No job, though she will maybe look for something. But it's all kind of new and figuring out. I asked to actually live in East Africa and so it's not easy, you know, figuring out. So trying to get, give her some, some good advice. And I have my thoughts and say, let's see what they say here. And so that 120, basically, you need to live on it is what it comes. Other than that, Social Security. And so what you guys say is a good direction.

A (108:03)

Well, what. First tell us what is she getting in Social Security?

C (108:07)

12, about 1200. 13, I think it's 1300amonth.

B (108:10)

How old is she?

C (108:12)

She's 72. Okay. So my dad didn't leave much. You know, he doesn't have, he didn't have 401k. Didn't have any of that stuff.

B (108:19)

Sure. And so the hard part, the hard part with this is, all right, 1300, Social Security. She needs some place to rent. She's in a small town or she in a metro area.

C (108:35)

Currently, currently she's living with my sister in Colorado. And so for, for numbers sake, she currently has an apartment that she's going to probably move into that will be about 1700, 100amonth.

B (108:47)

And who's gonna, who's gonna cover the difference? Because she's got 1300.

C (108:52)

Yeah, see, that's part of, that's part of the conversation. Obviously we'll help as much as we're not all in the greatest and we're not in terrible shape. We'll help her. And, but it's, it's, you know, that, that's kind of the question at hand. You know, she may get a job.

B (109:05)

Yeah.

C (109:06)

So the hope, the hope is not to be pulling out of that. That is the goal.

A (109:09)

How old is she?

C (109:10)

But here's she's 72.

B (109:12)

The reality, reality is she can't live on 120,000. That's impossible. It'll. It won't accumulate faster than you're pulling off of it because there's a huge gap in not just the rent, but now she needs food. Every once in a while she's going to need to go somewhere. Right. She's not going to just be cooped up in there. So the reality, and I think, you know this, the reality is $1300 a month isn't enough and 100, $120,000 isn't enough. So she's either going to have to go to work and fill those gaps. Maybe she works at Walmart, maybe she goes over to a grocery store, or you and your siblings are filling those gaps for her. Those really are the, it sounds like those are the options that are in front of you guys.

A (110:00)

I'd even push a, I'd push a lot harder. I would exhaust everything Jade that I could on trying to find a cheaper living situation. The 70, the 1700amonth. I know in the grand scheme of things is not crazy, but it is not a good price for her. So I wonder if she finds another widow or, you know, whatever. Let's find a Golden Girls community and if they're looking for a room, a roommate, let's. Now if we split that cost or she jumps in and we get that rent to say 800amonth or less or something like that.

B (110:30)

Freeze of 500 bucks.

A (110:31)

Yeah, that's what you need to be looking at. So, you know, we can't forget some of the simple things like that to go put the word out, you know, she's living with her daughter, your son, sister, they're, they're in that community. Let's ring the bell. Let's put the word out. My mom needs a roommate, you know, or if you're looking for a roommate, you know, and now all of a sudden we want to get to a place to where the $1300 a month covers the four walls. That would be our goal.

B (110:58)

Yeah, because if I, if I, if I were you, that 120, I'd want that to sit somewhere and stay there. But because your mother is going to continue to age and there's going to be a point at which maybe she needs some care, maybe there's something that needs to happen that's going to cost money and you guys are going to want whatever you can get your hands on, whether it's an in home nurse to take care of her, that sort of thing. And so for those reasons, that's why I would try to keep that 120 locked away somewhere.

C (111:30)

So that's, that's part of my question. What would be your advice as to where to lock that away? Would you say mutual funds? Would you say high interest savings? What would be, what would be your advice concerning that 120?

A (111:42)

How's her health?

C (111:45)

You know, she's good, she's good, she's good at this moment, you know, they weren't the Most consistent to go to the doctors. And so she needs to do those things and figure that out because what you guys are saying is totally true and we're trying to figure all those pieces and I'm thinking, well this 120.

A (111:59)

Here'S what I wanted. I'll tell you what my take. I want to know what Jade thinks here. I defer to her opinion on this, but I would take 15 to 20 and I'd put that in a savings account and that's, that's a pretty robust emergency fund for her. And then I'd invest that 100. I, I would get that working because if she lives 15 more years, that's going to double twice.

B (112:23)

I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't know if I would do. Yeah, 15, maybe that's too much. That might be a little high for her. Maybe I. 10 and yeah, I'd invest the rest. So yeah, the 10 and a half high yield. Invest the rest in just good mutual funds. Nothing, nothing crazy and that way it's there. I think that's exactly it, Ken.

A (112:40)

But I mean this involves her getting to a place, her living expenses to where she lives off of the, the Social Security and then the grocery job.

B (112:51)

72 year old woman.

A (112:52)

Anything she makes above. Yeah. And so anything she makes above and beyond that is. She's stacking. I think that's actually doable. Now I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm saying if I look for it, that's what I would do. If that my mom and that was her situation and I couldn't cover for her, then that's what I would be doing.

B (113:11)

Yeah, the living, the living part. Is 17 important here? Yeah, really, really important. And just buckle down and do your due diligence till you find it. Cuz if you can. That's going to break the whole thing.

A (113:22)

Let me ask you this. If you were 72 and your husband passed, would you want to live alone or would you want a roommate?

B (113:29)

It's hard to say. But I could understand wanting some computer companionship, you know, wanting a roommate. But I could also see all of a sudden being like, you know, Betty is Betty, you know, doesn't wipe off the counter when she's done and Betty, you know, she blares her Frank Sinatra too loud, you know, I mean, I.

A (113:48)

Feel like I don't like to be alone. Right. So like for me I, I think I'd have to get a roommate. I really do. Yeah, I don't think I could do well alone.

B (113:57)

Yeah. It could. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It could be a nice companion, something to do you guys.

C (114:01)

Yeah.

A (114:01)

And that's the.

C (114:01)

For us, that's rejection.

A (114:03)

Victory.

C (114:03)

That we probably will be. But this first she's been. Yeah, that's part of it. 1700 isn't the long term goal for sure for the ran. It's the roommate thing. At this moment, it feels like she needs that space and figuring out life. And we'll cover the difference. We'll make it work.

B (114:17)

Yeah.

C (114:18)

On our side, it's really the, like I said, the 120, what would it, would it be, you know. Okay, that's. If you put 120 in there, 4%, whatever, it's gonna make three, 400 bucks a month, something like that, you know? Or do you say no?

A (114:30)

No.

C (114:30)

Okay. Do you put it.

A (114:33)

Not the 4%. Remember, we want you putting that. We want you putting that in.

C (114:36)

You're saying, you're saying put 10, 15 in high interest savings, the rest in the market. And I get you on that. That's, that's why I was calling to see what would they say? Because for me, I'm. I tend to be a safe guy. I'd be like, put 50 in a high interest savings and then put 50 in S&P.

B (114:50)

No, we need that 120. Making as much money as it possibly can.

C (114:55)

Okay.

B (114:56)

And. Exactly. But I think the 10 to 15 that would cover you if. Yeah. Something popped up. I don't know, maybe she needs a vehicle of her own or something, you know, that, that you must pay for. Does she have a vehicle, by the way?

C (115:10)

She does, yeah.

B (115:11)

Okay.

C (115:11)

She doesn't have any other debt other than everything that I've told you is that she has cars. A car that's paid for and all the things there's not looming.

B (115:17)

So if her car breaks down or if something happened, you know, it's an emergency fund. The same way that we would use the emergency fund for any other, you know, purposes around here.

A (115:25)

Yeah, absolutely. And it's. Yeah. So you got it. Help her with, with budgeting, you know, like get her if she needs it and just surround her there and get her situation where it's much more stable and controlled. And then I love the idea, by the way, of 72 year olds are healthy, doing some kind of work for a variety of reasons. So. Yeah. Thanks for the call, Caleb, and check on the kids, make sure everything's okay there. Always love when we hear those calls. You know what I mean? I could see some poor guys trying to Talk to us. Kids are playing kickball. Check. Johnny got hit in the head. Right upside the head. Remember those red kickballs? That could really leave a mark.

B (115:59)

All right. Favorite golden girl hit me.

A (116:04)

The old lady that was cranky. I forget her name on the show.

B (116:06)

The little lady or Dorothy's mom.

A (116:08)

Yeah, yeah, the sassy, kind of cranky lady.

B (116:12)

Ma.

A (116:13)

Ma. Was that her name?

B (116:14)

What's her real name? I can't remember her name on the show.

A (116:16)

Yeah, I don't know. This will not surprise you. Never saw a full episode.

B (116:21)

I'm clutching my pearls.

A (116:23)

Exactly.

B (116:23)

Wow.

A (116:24)

I'm not the demographic. Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 19, verse 23. The fear of the Lord leads to life. Then one rests content, untouched by trouble. And our quote of the day from Francis Chan, Our greatest fear should not be a failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter. It's got some depth. Depth on that one that'll make you think twice. Veronica joins us now in Texas. Veronica, how can we help?

C (117:15)

Hi. Thank you so much for getting me on. I love your show. And the last two years, I've really been following you guys, and it has helped me so much. I am a single mom. I'm 39 years old, and I have paid over $30,000 in debt in the last, I would say, four years, which has been amazing.

A (117:39)

Good for you. Way to go. Let's not just fly past that. We're proud of you. Way to go.

C (117:45)

My goodness. It's been a journey. But I am here, and I have two questions. I have a. This is. I have a. I have a vehicle, my first vehicle that I bought for my daughter when she graduated. I owe $3,400 on that. And I am in the process of trying to find a home right now. I live with family, and I have about seven months to move on. So they've allowed me to stay here for two years. And within the two years, I have been able to get my thousand dollars in my emergency fund. And I also have saved $14,000 for a home, but I still have debt. I recently got my associate's degree, and So I have $6,000 in student loans. And I do have another vehicle. That's about 14,000 do. And I have one credit card that has no interest, which I got my computer for school, which I have fifteen hundred dollars. My question is, I want to pay down this. That first vehicle. It's $3,400 if I would pay it today, but that means that I would take away from My home savings.

B (119:04)

That's right.

C (119:05)

And, but I would save about $1,500 in interest. And so I have been praying about this, and it's just been. I'm going to try. Dave. Recipe.

B (119:18)

I'm glad you called. Listen, I, I, I'm glad you called. You said you paid off 30,000 in four years. That's no easy feat. I didn't ask you what your income is. What is your income?

C (119:30)

So to date, I make about $83,000. I am in the medical field, and I'm also my little brother's caregiver.

B (119:40)

Okay.

C (119:40)

So he, he's been with me for 17 years. So I do get paid from the state for.

B (119:49)

So how much do you take it home a month? What's a monthly snapshot for you with all those things combined?

C (119:56)

So monthly, let's see, it's about 1650. 16amonth for my job. I mean, every two weeks. So let's say, okay, and then 1500, let's add $1500 to that. So about $4800. But his, his Social Security 30 allowed him to give me about $800 for him to have like, room, like for him to live, if that makes sense.

B (120:27)

So 5,600 together. All together. Does that sound right?

C (120:32)

No, that, so he bring, he has 9, 590, 950amonth.

B (120:40)

Okay.

C (120:41)

And then I bring home about 3, 500.

B (120:46)

Okay.

C (120:46)

And the reason why I was able to pay off this inter, this $30,000 is because I had a job who paid all my bills and my for, for three years I was on a contract and they paid for everything. When they sent me out to, to, to Austin and I was able to. My entire income went on paying off debt that I had with my ex.

B (121:11)

Yours feels a little low. Are you, are you putting anything in 401k or environment right now?

C (121:17)

I am.

B (121:18)

Okay, how much?

C (121:19)

401K. I have a 401k. They take out, they take out about $160 each time.

B (121:30)

Okay, so there's money there. Tell me more.

C (121:34)

And then this is another, this is another big question for me. Is 4700. $470 goes to my tithes and offering.

B (121:44)

Okay, good, good. Okay, so now I have a better picture of what's on going, going on. Here's the thing. You are correct in your thought earlier that you said, hey, I have 14,000 saved. I think I want to pay off this $3,400 car. Yes. Because my advice to you would be, first and foremost, you're not in a position to Buy a house. And if you buy a house right now, you are going to create a level of stress that you've not understood before, because it's going to create a lot of financial burden. Because what I'm seeing right now, based on your habits, is you're not done borrowing money. And so what that tells me is if you buy a house right now and the AC goes out, you're going to get a credit card to fix it. If something happens with your back door and the lining comes off and you need somebody to come over and fix the door jam, and you're gonna take out the credit card with the repairman. So this is going to continue to snowball, and then you're going to feel like a ride in the wheel, not being able to make traction. So for those, those reasons, I would put the dream of buying a home just. Just table it for a while. It's. It's not. It's just deferred for a moment. It's not to say that it's going to happen. Okay, so that means I've got 14, really $13,000 that I can put towards debt right now. And what I'm doing, Ken, is just. We're just walking her through the baby steps. And so I keep a thousand dollars aside. That's baby step one. That's just your rainy day fund in case something happens. But, yeah, let's pay off off this car. And then on down the line now we've got another 10,000. Let's pay off the, the credit card. That's 1,500. And let's keep paying this off. Let's knock out those student loans. So I'm at 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. I'm almost there. I've spent all my money and I've. I've. I've paid off the car, I paid off the credit card, and I've paid off my student loans. That is going to make you feel fantastic. Am I wrong?

C (123:38)

Yes.

B (123:39)

Why am I wrong?

C (123:41)

I. I only have seven months.

B (123:43)

I understand my family's health, but that doesn't mean you have seven months until you have to move out. No one said you had to buy a house. It just means you have to find another place to live. Which in my mind says, okay, you're looking for an apartment, and you can do that. Because the other thing you're going to do, thing two, as you're paying off this debt, like we said, because you can do that, that today, the moment that you can muster up the strength to know that I'm right. You can do that today. And then the next thing that I would tell you to do is you need to pause this retirement, Mama, because you need that $320 a month. Because like you said, you're trying to get a house. You're trying to get a place or, you know, a place to live on your own. So having that extra 320, not only is it going to cause you to pay off this car faster, it's going to give you the money and income you need to be able to go into a rental, go into an apartment, pay first and last month's rent, feel good about it. Does that make sense?

C (124:39)

Yes.

B (124:40)

So right now you're trying to do a lot of things at once. What I'm saying is let's focus on one thing at a time. Knock it out, get it done. Does that make sense?

C (124:49)

Yes. No. It makes perfect sense. I just, I. I think I was just tired of renting and giving my money away.

B (124:58)

Totally understood.

A (124:59)

Well, hold on a second.

C (125:00)

That's where we're here.

A (125:01)

And I love that you shared that with us. I'm just going to jump in on this one little thought right there. And because that's the, that's the mental shift you're going to have to make so that you actually do what Jade is telling you to do. You're not throwing your money away. That has become a cultural.

B (125:19)

It's a lie.

A (125:20)

It's a lie and it's a statement because some. Somebody out there created this idea that, well, when you're re. You're not building equity, thus you are burning money. Well, that's not the case because as Jade laid it out for you and what you've been doing up to this point and, and renting further is not throwing money away. It's actually giving you options for the future. But if you strap yourself with debt, you can, you can say all you want to, well, I'm building equity. Well, no, you'll never see that equity if you, if you go completely broke and you can't afford to keep your. Yourself above water with the house. So renting is not wasting money and throwing money away. Renting is putting me in a position for the future that I want, and it gives me actual freedom and options. Do you see it that way now? Yeah, you got to believe that. Listen, because if you buy into the other argument, you're going to strap yourself with debt and it's not going to be fun. So hang in there. Work the plan. Jake gave you great advice. It will work. This is the Ramsey Show.