Money Magnifies What You Already Are

Summary

The Ramsey Show – “Money Magnifies What You Already Are”

Date: September 3, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-host: Dr. John Delony
Summary Prepared By: Podcast Summarizer

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Main Theme and Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show launches from a newly sponsored studio with Fairwinds Credit Union, underscoring a recurring Ramsey theme: how money amplifies your existing character and habits, whether good or bad. The show features practical advice for callers tackling a range of financial issues—from paying off debt and dealing with tricky inheritance questions, to pondering career and business changes, and navigating divorce settlements. True to the show’s tone, Ramsey and Delony blend tough love with encouragement and proven strategies, making the point repeatedly that wealth and financial peace are built not through shortcuts or risky leaps, but through intention, diligence, and character.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Credit Unions, Studio Partnership, and the “Be Weird” Ramsey Debit Card

[00:05–09:01]

• Dave Ramsey introduces Fairwinds Credit Union as the new studio sponsor, emphasizing a decades-long preference for credit unions over big banks due to their customer-centered, non-profit structure.
• Insight: Ramsey stresses that credit unions, like Fairwinds, return profits to members through better rates and services, aligning with Ramsey’s financial philosophies.
• Launch of the “Debt is Normal. Be Weird.” Ramsey debit card—a symbol of intentional debt-free living.
  • [06:24] Dr. John Delony: “It’s gonna be the alternative to the black card... now when somebody whips out the ‘be weird’ card.”
  • [07:12] Dave Ramsey: “Do not get a Ramsey debit card if you cheap out on waiters, we don’t want you.”
• Memorable Moment: The two riff on the idea of a “generosity tax” for cardholders—if you use the Ramsey card, you’re expected to tip big and live generously.

2. Small Business, Risk, and Bootstrapping

[10:57–19:48] – Maria from St. Louis: Should I touch my 401k to fund a wedding venue?

• Dave adamantly advises against using retirement savings or leveraging debt to start a business.
  • “I’m not a dream killer; I’m a nightmare killer. I want to set you up to win at your dream, not end up as one of the 80% of small businesses that fail.” [13:51]
• He suggests Maria partner with a local winery on a joint venture, letting them put up the initial investment and using revenue-sharing to test the concept before going all in.
  • “Pull the boat up close to the dock before you step in. People that make leaps get wet.” [17:34]
• Corporate and business wisdom is detailed: start small, prove the concept, and avoid the debt trap.

3. Settling Government Debts & Dealing with Wage Garnishment

[22:38–30:58] – Dan in Seattle: Facing government collections over military bonus.

• Priority is given to debts owed to the government or IRS because they have greater power to garnish wages without court.
  • “They’re the hardest of all creditors to deal with… they answer to nobody. ...Zombie debt just keeps coming back.” – Dave Ramsey [28:58]
• The advice: Set up a payment plan with the Treasury, prioritize government debt to avoid wage garnishment, and go “scorched earth” financially until resolved.

4. Military Moves and Paying Down Mortgages

[32:44–37:50] – Ryan in Detroit: Should military members pay extra on mortgages when they move often?

• Ramsey’s advice is yes, as long as the property is gaining value; otherwise, consider renting instead of buying for short stays.
• The discussion touches on the psychological importance of “home” for military families but warns against buying in stagnant markets.

5. Career Transitions & Pursuing Trades

[38:14–42:24] – Devin the Pastor: Transitioning from pastoring to plumbing.

• Dave and John recommend an incremental approach: don’t leap, edge in by working part-time to learn the trade, maintain financial stability, and avoid romanticizing a fresh business start.

6. Prenuptial Agreements and Large Inheritances

[44:03–52:31] – Sarah in Baton Rouge: Is a prenup advisable if expecting a $5M inheritance?

• Dave has changed his stance, now recommending prenups when there is a “dramatic amount of money” as it protects against family interference and relational drama.
  • “The prenup not only helps the married couple but more importantly, it helps the weirdos in their family.” [45:18]
• Delony emphasizes bringing up money matters early in a serious relationship and leading with identity and values, not just the numbers.

7. Bereavement, Boundaries, and Dealing with Grieving & Relatives

[54:31–57:00] – Abigail in Indiana: Family requesting late husband’s belongings.

• The guidance: You are under no moral obligation to distribute anything before you’re ready—nine months, a year, or more is fine.
  • “No moral obligation. None whatsoever. It just feels like vultures circling.” [55:13]
• The hosts recall funny stories about family sticky-noting possessions in advance as a way to prevent posthumous squabbles.

8. Moving, Debt, and Intergenerational Living

[58:04–62:47] – Tiffany: Moving to Florida, paying off debt, and merging households.

• Ramsey clarifies: don’t “pause” debt payoff before a big move if the house sale will cover it.
• Complexities of parents gifting down payments are discussed with a caution to keep inheritance and family transactions clear and fair—get everything in writing if a parent gives upfront.

9. Debt-Free Stories: Inspiration and Hope

Eladio & Carla in LA ([64:22–72:09])

• Paid off $312,000 (including their mortgage!) in five years on modest incomes (UPS, restaurant, PTA).
• Their journey: two jobs, relentless diligence, faith, and frugal living.
  • “What’s the secret? Just don’t spend anything if you don’t need it.” [70:11]
  • “You changed your whole family tree… proof that the American dream is alive and well.” [69:11]

Jennifer in Connecticut ([104:53–114:17])

• Overcame tragedy, homelessness risk, and medical setbacks to pay off $205,000 in 5.5 years, including her home.
• “I was staring homelessness in the face… My pastors told me: you will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. …That’s not the end of the story.” [111:46]
• Focus on rebuilding with faith, discipline, and the support of community.

10. Divorce, Lifestyle Adjustments, and Lump Sum Settlements

[85:02–93:12] – Samantha: Using a divorce settlement to maintain children’s lifestyle?

• Advice: Do not attempt to “keep everything the same.” Children’s lives will change, and striving to maintain the former standard breeds anxiety.
  • “Solve for peace, not for maintaining exactly what it was.” – Dr. John Delony [93:05]
  • "The life we had is over. What life do we want to build with my current salary, with the settlement with our house or selling the house? ...Build something new and solve for peace." [92:55]

11. Night Shift Burnout and Permission to Rest

[94:47–100:43] – Shannon in Iowa: Husband wants off nights after 10 years; income would drop.

• Math shows it’s feasible; John Delony asserts “This isn’t a math problem, it’s worth and purpose. Telling your husband, ‘We did it. I’m proud of you. Come home now.’” [98:19]
• Ramsey reiterates moving from intense to intentional. Once debt is clear, prioritize health and family.

12. Should You Pay Off the Mortgage?

[101:26–103:27] – Joe in Detroit: Should he pay off $55k mortgage with $70k in savings?

• Immediate and emphatic “Pay it off. Today.” 30 years on, Dave has never heard a client regret paying off their home.
  • “If your house was paid for, would you go get a mortgage at 3% to invest it at 5? I hope not.” [102:47]

13. When to Quit a Failing Business Venture

[119:50–123:36] – Kate in California: When to give up on husband’s “business” that hasn’t made money in five years.

• Direct advice: if it’s never made money, it’s not a business but a hobby. Support for creative pursuits, but not at the family’s financial or emotional expense.
  • “We love people who dream. We don’t love people who live in dreams. …You get to take care of your family first.” – Dave Ramsey [123:14]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Dave Ramsey: “Pull the boat up close to the dock before you step in. People that make leaps get wet.” [17:34]
• Dr. John Delony: “Money magnifies the good and the bad: if someone is compassionate and generous and they become wealthy, they become what we call a philanthropist… if crazy is in your family, crazy will be magnified.” [51:40]
• Dave Ramsey: “Zombie debt just keeps coming back.” [30:58]
• Maria (caller): “We look at rings; we have a ring picked out.” [13:07]
• Dave Ramsey: “Do not get a Ramsey debit card if you cheap out on waiters.” [07:12]
• Jennifer (Connecticut caller): “Sitting on the steps of my house, going, ‘What’s the safest parking lot I could sleep in?’” [111:46]
• Dr. John Delony: “Clear is kind. The best way you can love him is to put it all on the table.” [122:18]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Intro & new studio sponsor, Fairwinds/EveryDollar app: [00:05]
• Launch of “Be Weird” Ramsey Debit Card: [06:24]
• Small Business/401k debate: [10:57–19:48]
• Debt with the US Department of Treasury/Government collections: [22:38–30:58]
• Military buying & selling/renting real estate: [32:44–37:50]
• Career shift: Pastoring to Trades: [38:14–42:24]
• Prenups and Inheritance: [44:03–52:31]
• Grief & boundaries with late husband's assets: [54:31–57:00]
• Moving, debt, and inheritance logistics: [58:04–62:47]
• Eladio & Carla – LA debt-free scream: [64:22–72:09]
• Divorce, settlements & lifestyle: [85:02–93:12]
• Night shift, burnout, shifting to intentionality: [94:47–100:43]
• Mortgage pay-off debate: [101:26–103:27]
• Jennifer – Connecticut debt-free scream: [104:53–114:17]
• Quitting a business that’s not making money: [119:50–123:36]

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Episode Tone, Language & Final Thoughts

The episode threads a familiar Ramsey line: direct, occasionally blunt, always practical, underpinned by encouragement, faith, and wit. Delony and Ramsey’s playful banter keeps things lively, and the segment structure offers a clear model for anyone needing both “tough love” and tactical, stepwise financial guidance. Listeners walk away reinforced in the idea that money is not a value-neutral force—it extends both your best and worst habits. Ultimately, building wealth is less about math and more about diligence, restraint, and character.

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For more financial tips or to ask your question live, visit www.ramseysolutions.com or call 888.825.5225.

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Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. Well, as you can tell, we got a brand new studio sponsor and we did a little bit of a new opener. Been working on our opener a little bit. The other one kind of sucked. So we worked on it a little bit and we're pumped about this new studio sponsor, Fairwinds Credit Union. These guys are absolutely incredible. They've been a partner for a while now. And you guys know if you listen to Dave Ramsey for about 30 seconds that I pretty much hate the big banks. You know, like why you would do business with bank of America and get mistreated, the way they mistreat all their customers is beyond me. Why you would do business with Fifth Third is beyond me. Why you would do business with Chase, I have no idea what's wrong with you if you're doing that. I don't get it. Cause they just treat you like crap and you give them your money to do that instead. We work with small regional banks and we've been an endorser of credit unions nationwide for off and on for 30 years. Years since I started the show because I'm a huge fan of credit unions. And the main reason is this credit unions work different. They're not a bank. They are non profit. And the weird thing is the people that are the customers or the members actually are the owners. Now you don't get to go in there and say, I want that desk. It's not yours. Okay? You're not that kind of an owner, but you're a stockholder, so to speak, in a nonprofit. Now what that means mathematically is if there is a profit made, and there has to be for them to stay open, they turn it back to customer services. Reduced interest rates on loans, increased interest rates on savings accounts, and other free things. Like cool free things they do for Ramsey people all the time at Fairwinds. So I've been a big fan of credit unions for a long time. Fairwinds came along, we started working with them about a year ago and they're absolutely incredible. I love credit unions. You need to do business with a financial institution that actually cares about you. And this is why we endorse Fairwinds. And now they've stepped up their partnership and they are our new studio sponsor here for the Rent Ramsey Show. They've been in business for over 75 years, they served hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. They partner with more than 5,000 credit union locations, other credit unions around the country in a partnership. So you can bank wherever you live. So it's totally click and mortar. 33,000 fee free ATMs. Deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to 250,000. So you got the same level of insurance that you would with a stupid bank. And they've created a combined checking. This is the important part in High Yields Savings Account bundle For Ramsey fans. The High Yield Savings Account is competitive with national digital banks. Built for people who want to stay out of debt. And a good place to park and get that old emergency fund kicking right. No credit traps. It's built to align with the baby steps. Interest rate isn't some bait and switch thing. It's designed to support Ramsey fans as you get your emergency fund and you save with intention. And now, along with the studio sponsorship, we're introducing something very cool. The new Ramsey debit card with fair wins. And this is cool because right on the front of the card it says, debt is normal. Be weird. So as soon as you're checking out, you're going to get a response from the waiter. You're like, what? You're going to get a response from the girl at Target trying to sell you a credit card. She's going to be saying, what? I can't do it. I got this debt. You know, that's normal. I don't want to be normal. I'm weird. Look at my card here. Can I show you my card? Can I show you my card? You know, I mean, it just changes everything. Everything, right? It's not a payment method. It's a daily reminder that you're working the baby steps and that you're not going to go in debt. And it is a Ramsey debit card at Fairwinds. So you can see why these guys are not typical. They're aligned with us. We're excited for you to have them check to, for, for you to check them out. And you guys haven't been around us for a while because we've added millions of people in the past six months or a year. You guys don't know how hard we are on endorsements. We don't endorse everything. We endorse stuff we believe in. And I've got a rule. I started the rule. I endorsed a couple things in my early days of talk radio because I was broke and desperate that I wished I wasn't. And I was ashamed. And one of my friends came up and said, would you do that? And I said, no, John, I wouldn't do that. You're my friend. But I did put it on the radio. I went, well, that's just lying. That's just insincere. That's hypocritical. So I got it. So embarrassed, I said, I'm never doing it again. And our rule for our sales team has always been no endorsements of any kind for any of our Ramsey personalities unless we're willing to send our mama there, our best friend there. And would I tell you to go over there? And if not, if we can't feel that good about it, we don't need the money. We got plenty of money. We're stacking money around here. It's not a problem. Okay? Profits are not an issue at Ramsey. All right? So we don't need the money. So we're very, very selective and very careful. Can you imagine how hard we are to work with if you're in the banking sector? I mean, just saying it pisses me off. Right. And so can you imagine the poor people at Fairwinds, what they have been through? And they're wonderful people, but they kept going. Well, you don't want our money. No. We're going to just let this. We're going to make sure everything's okay first. And you know what? They've been wonderful. They're incredible folks. They do have a great track record and they got great hearts. We've gotten to know the executive team there. They do a great job. And so we're really excited. Easy to join Fairwinds.org Ramsey that's where you go. Fairwinds.org nonprofit.org Ramsey that's F A I R W I N D S.org Ramsey and I'm super pumped that we now have a dead as normal be weird Ramsey debit card out there in the wild. This is cool, John. It's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's very cool. It's going to be the new. It's like the alternative to the black card, Right? That. That was like, ooh. Now when somebody whips out the be weird card.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's like the polar opposite end.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Like, I didn't pay 75, 000 for this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't pay 7, $500 for this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And how cool would it be? How cool would it be if there was a movement across the country when people put their. Their Ramsey debit card, their debt is normal. Be weird. I'm getting debit card.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'M getting out of debt is what this says.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But they also knew, oh, these are the most generous folks out there. They're going to tip us well too. We know these, we know these men and women. They're a different character.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what? We need to just make that on the sign.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How cool would that be?

[Dave Ramsey]

Do not get a Ramsey debit card. If you cheap out on waiters, we don't want you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're not going to load up the waiter with your Ramsey debit card. Load them up, baby. Load up who? Anybody. You got it. You got a tip. Heavy, heavy. If you got this. So there is a tax on this thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's a tax, but it's a generosity tax and it's a good muscle. This is awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it. John, you just invented something right here on the air.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, there we go. There we go. I get one a year. That's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like that a lot.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But I love the idea of waiters walking back to the back to run the card and then going haha, like showing it to their, to the other staff and being like, I got one. And they know they're about to get tipped really well. That's cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like that a lot. That's very good. All right, so Fair Winds Credit Union Studios. That's us now. That's what we're broadcasting from. We got it up in here. It's on the wall and somewhere. Is it on the wall? It's right there on the wall. There it is right there. Okay. And so that reminds you guys right there that we're here and we're going to be saying this over and over and over and over. I hope forever and I hope you guys start getting that Ramsey deb at Fairwinds and you get those high yield savings accounts for your emergency fund at Fairwinds and you get the bundle and the free checking and all that stuff at Fairwinds because you're gonna have a great response from them. They love Ramsey people. They have been taking care of our folks really well for the last year. That's why we did this. Much increased footprint with them and it includes the high tipping Ramsey debit card according to Dr. John Deloney. I like it. I like it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, this is how you change culture.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a good adjustment. It's a good adjustment. I like right there. Live call an audible. Fairwindscreditunion.org Rams.

[Commercial Announcer]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family. And then a curveball hits.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah.

[Commercial Announcer]

And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up.

[Commercial Announcer]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've trusted Jeff, Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Dr. John DeLoney Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Maria is in St. Louis. Hi Maria, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. Good afternoon. I'm great, thank you. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

That is a great response. I just wanted to say thank you so much for everything that you do. I'm a huge fan of your podcast YouTube channel show everything. Very honored to be on today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you.

[Caller]

My question is I have about $100,000 in my 401k, I'm 30 years old and I've been wanting to open up a wedding venue out here in Defiance, Missouri which is beautiful kind of wine country. I'm wondering if I should take from my 401k and put some type of equity into this wedding venue dream that I have. But of course I do have some lingering debts and just wanted to get your opinion on do I take for my 401k or kind of. Where do I even begin with this?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So what do you do for a living now?

[Caller]

I am in supply chain for a defense contractor.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're making 100k?

[Caller]

I have a second job. I work at a bar on the weekends, so I do serve, so I'm probably about 115.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. But your supply chain's 100k?

[Caller]

105.

[Dave Ramsey]

105. Yeah. Okay. All right. And good for you.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the. How much debt did you say you have?

[Caller]

So we just bought a house. Me and my boyfriend bought a house last November for 450. We have the mortgage. We both have car payments.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you owe on your car?

[Caller]

I owe 24,000 and I paid 31 to the bank, so I'm a little upset about the car.

[Dave Ramsey]

You owe 24,000. What other debt do you have?

[Caller]

I owe student loans. 15,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. All right. And. Well, a couple things come to mind immediately. One is if you're going to run a wedding chapel, you should act like you believe in your product and you should be married.

[Caller]

Correct. We. Hey. We look at rings. We have a ring picked out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. Just. Just. Okay.

[Caller]

Before we get going, my finger just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Kind of basic stuff I've never heard of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I've never heard the phrase, that's a great Missouri wine. What kind of wine do they have in Missouri?

[Dave Ramsey]

In Defiance?

[Caller]

Yeah, you're not wrong. It's this. They have a bunch of wineries. It's. It's the big, like, every.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's kind of. There's just kind of a little resort area there.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Maybe it's up and coming.

[Caller]

It's beautiful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It's a pretty area and an excuse to drink some wine. Yeah. Okay.

[Caller]

Or have a wedding. Ye.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or have a wedding. Or both. Yeah. Okay. But there's no existing venue that you're trying to purchase. You would build this?

[Caller]

I would build this. So I would have to buy the land. I would, of course, have, you know, everything. It would be starting from scratch.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, number one, I would tell you, regardless of what business idea you propose, I would have you get out of debt before you try it. Okay. And number two, we coach about 10,000 small businesses through our entree leadership brand. I do an entree leadership podcast. It's one of the top podcasts in the small business space. And we teach them to not grow their business with debt, to grow it slowly. So not going to have you borrow on your 401k and of course, you know we're not going to tell you to cash out a 401k and take a 10% penalty plus your tax rate of 30%. Dave, I'm going to borrow money at 40% interest to open a wedding venue. No, you're not. And so we're not doing that either. So that kind of takes off those kind of things. Kind of. I start to be a dream killer. But I'm not a dream killer. What I am is a nightmare killer. I want to set you up to win right at your dream, not to get to the end of your dream and be one of the 80% of small businesses that fail. And that number is actually true. What causes the 80%? The number one cause of small business failure is called cash flow problems. Now, cash flow problems mean I'm short on money. Hello. And that usually means I'm in debt and I didn't pay my taxes properly and the IRS is chasing me down. So the taxes thing, you can work on with quarterly estimates and do your accounting properly. It's not the end of the world. And just not just be sophisticated enough to run your business properly. The debt thing is you've got to. If nobody wants to get married, the banker doesn't care.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If 73 people get married that day, the banker doesn't care. The banker just doesn't care. It's a freaking banker. And they will foreclose on your little wedding chapel and turn it into a dog park. I mean, in a heartbeat they'll do that. You know that's true. That's why you're laughing.

[Caller]

Oh, yes. Yes, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so what I want to do is if I'm going to run a business, and I do run one, and we have 14 profit centers, meaning 14 mini businesses inside of the Ramsey Solutions total PL. So I run 14 businesses of sorts. They're all interconnected, but I run all of those as the CEO of this place. And I've grown it from a card table in my living room. So what we want to do, anytime we're trying something new, which is what you're doing, doing in an area where it's never yet been done. Ooh. Risk.

[Caller]

Which is what the wineries do. Offer weddings. But there is no wedding. True wedding venue. They're more just wineries.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the biggest, nicest winery? Put that name in your head. Don't say it out loud. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

After John's comment for sure. Okay.

[Caller]

But yeah.

Not a Missouri fan. Okay, Go on.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I love Missouri.

[Dave Ramsey]

We like Missouri. We just never Associated it with Napa. And so the. So go over and talk to them about a joint venture and let them build it.

[Caller]

Wow. Okay. I didn't even think about that.

[Dave Ramsey]

They'll put up the money. They suck at wedding. They're good at wine. I'm excellent at weddings and wedding venues. You can increase your visit, you can increase your visits to the winery. We'll put it right here on property and we'll JV it And you guys own the building. You own the property and I run it for a percentage of profits for you. And let's lay out a model and let's start that puppy where you do it at nights and weekends and maybe some days off from your logistics. Don't quit yet. And let's get 50, $60,000 income, $80,000 of income coming into your pocket before you quit your job.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

We always say pull the boat up close to the dock before you so you can step in rather than make the leap. People that make leaps get wet. So get your income from the wedding venue up and let's figure out a way to do this where you don't have to carry the burden of all the downside. And for that matter, these people could start the thing in a really nice high end tent.

[Caller]

Yeah, you're not wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

You could. And then let's concept proof, right? Let's get social proof of the concept. And they got 25,000 doll our $50,000 in the tent before we go build $100,000 building or $200,000 building and we prove out that we're both going to make bank on this. You're going to get a lot more customers to the winery. You're also going to make money on the weddings because I'm not taking 100% of the profits. You got invested in this too. So we're doing this together and do a JV on it. And let's prove it out and go ahead and put in the agreement that someday you can buy them out and you can move it off site.

[Caller]

Okay. So almost like a not, not a franchise, but basically just no, more like.

[Dave Ramsey]

An option to purchase.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

To go with it. Because if it goes gangbusters later or if they ever went broke, you could own it. You went on the real estate, but you'd own the idea.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

And so yeah, let's just kind of. I'm trying to ease into this and limit my risk rather than just take this leap off a cliff and go, I sure to God hope that water's deep.

[Caller]

I know the up front cost of the wedding venue is what is killer. Lingering question. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you can't start. Yeah, let's, let's start it. Yeah, let's start it with a camping trip and go from there. I mean, I think, I gotta tell you, I think the tying it to the winery could really help the wedding chapel. And it for sure will help the winery.

[Caller]

Oh yeah. I mean you could start at the winery and then, you know, moving on over to the venue.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go ahead and option the piece of ground next door and buy it out. Buy the ground first with some of your profits later. Build the chapel. When you get it built, I exercise your option on the business, move it next door.

[Caller]

Okay, so what if, worst case scenario, what if these guys are like, no, we do perfectly fine. We're not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go to the, go to the other one.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Go to the next one.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just missed out. Your competition is now going to have a wedding venue and you should have done it. You screwed up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then get on Amazon and order an Elvis costume and pay some high school kid to stand there next to you. I'll go rid of my vows in defiance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Spinner sign. That's right. What are you, Vegas?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm just trying to think of this up and coming wine country Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Elvis is known for that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I'm just saying I don't. People get Elvis weddings in Vegas. I'm on this.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just telling you, you just started another trend.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm starting another trend.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

I'm doing good, Dave. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my question for you today is I'm on baby step two and I have about $80,000 in debt. Now most of my debt is through one bank and they're offering me settlements at about 35 cents on the dollar. But I also owe $32,000 to the Department of Treasury and they just sent me an intent to initiate wage garnishment.

[Dave Ramsey]

The irs?

[Caller]

No, it's through the Department of Treasury.

[Dave Ramsey]

For what?

[Caller]

So I was in the military. I was in the Navy for about five years and I got discharged early for failing a drug test. And so because of that, they're asking for my reenlistment bonus that I had signed a contract for back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you got a reenlistment bonus and how many months later did you fail the drug test?

[Caller]

It was two years later.

[Dave Ramsey]

Two years later. Okay, and the reenlistment was for how long?

[Caller]

That was a six year contract.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you were one third of the way through. So what was your bonus when you re enlisted?

[Caller]

It was the money they're asking for back, it was around 32,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So they don't prorate it at all. They want the whole thing. Huh?

[Caller]

They want the amount that they had already paid out to me. That wasn't the full amount, but that was what I had received up until the point that I got.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, they were paying it out to you over the six year period?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it is the pro rata amount. Okay, so overall, had you been there, you would have got ninety something thousand dollars had you been there the whole time?

[Caller]

Roughly, yeah. I think, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Have you tried to negotiate a payment plan with them? Because I'm sure they expect someone that failed a drug test to have $32,000 laying around.

[Caller]

I have not. So my plan was because I know you normally say work smallest to largest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But not when, not when you're dealing with the US freaking government, with the IRS or the US Department of Treasury. They have the ability to come take stuff from you that other people don't. So yeah, what I would do is get on the phone with them and Figure out if they can. If you can work a payment plan with them, and that will use up some of the money you're using to get out of debt on the other side. But it also keeps them from coming and taking your wages, which they can do in a heartbeat. They don't even have to go to court. They just got to send a notice. It's like the irs. They're unbelievably powerful, right? So, yeah, you need to get that thing settled to create a sustainable situation so you can work your way through the rest of it. Okay, so we need to get a payment plan with them. They'll work a payment plan with you. Because I don't think they think they're going to get their money.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, if they let a hundred people go in this exact same situation due to failing a drug test, a hundred of them don't have the money. Okay. None of you guys are sitting around on 32,000 bucks when this happens to you, right? I mean, other. Your other friends in the military that. That happened to, right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not like you're sitting around, you know, on piles of money. You know, it just doesn't. It doesn't work that way. So, yeah, I, you know, I'd work a payment plan with them, and then with what I've got left, so I would imagine they'll settle. What are you making now? What do you make?

[Caller]

85,000 a year before tax.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. What are you doing? What do you do now?

[Caller]

I am a data center engineer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great. Excellent. And so keep learning and keep growing and keep that income increasing. And let's get it all cleared off as fast as possible. What I would do is call them and say this. Hey, I got let go from the military for a drug test. I have no money. You really can't get anything. But I would love to start a payment plan to get this paid back. What's the least you would put me on? And put it on the smallest payment possible for now. That gives you more room to work on the other stuff. And when the other stuff's gone, then go back and pay them off completely early. So, you know, I don't want you to offer them a thousand. And they would have taken 500amonth for right now. Right. I want them to give you a number. And no matter what they say, practice this with me, Dan. I want you to gasp. No matter what they say, act like you about passed out, and go, you're kidding. Oh, my. Oh, no. Oh, my gosh. Oh. Can you do any better? And let Them negotiate with themselves for a minute. Okay. You understand the technique?

[Caller]

I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

It works, especially when you're dealing with a government employee on the other end and.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, Dan, Dan, you still there, man? Listen to me. This will not go away.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right? And I know the temptation will be like, somebody of yours is going to have a cool jeep that he's jacked up. He's going to give it to you at a quote, unquote, great deal, and someone's going to ask you to get in on Bitcoin or whatever the thing's coming. None of this is going to go away. So the faster you figure out how to get this cleared up up, I would go scorch earth on my living arrangements until I got the government out of my life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

They are. They are unwavering.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's not going to go away.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they. They're the hardest of all creditors to deal with. Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because they're their own boss. They don't. They answer to nobody.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. They don't have to check with a judge. It's crazy, right? It's like student loans. They just issue the garnishment. It's like the irs. They just issue the garnishment. They don't have to go through due process. It's completely unconstitutional. But it doesn't matter. They do it anyway. So, you know due processes in the Constitution. Not when it comes to government debt. Nope. They just come take it and then they go, oh, you mean we weren't supposed to do that. We'll get it back then. Doesn't work. No, it's a pain in the butt. I want to scare you because I want to scare you in knocking this out as fast as you possibly can. But in the meantime, put it on the smallest possible payment so you got a sustainable situation. And then work like crazy, man. Live scorched earth. Stay off the dadgum drugs and attack this stuff, man, and get it out of your life. Get rid of it so it doesn't come back. And yeah, for sure, you've got a great career in front of you. Don't screw it up. Bust, bust, bust, bust. Get those certifications, data analyst. Man, in an AI world, you are king. You're going to be king of the heap because you're going to be the one telling AI what to do if you learn how to do your craft. Believe me, I got them in this building and I pay them well. They're the future, so. They are the future. The children are our future. Yeah, that's it. But that's said AI. But yeah, do it, man. You can do. John's right, though. Don't let, don't let up until they're out of your life because this is not going away. And if you look up five years from now and you still got this hanging around because you haven't dealt with it, I hope John's voice is ringing in your ear. It's not going away.

[Dr. John Deloney]

People keep. And this is a little bit different situation. But man, I don't know what it's going to take for folks to stop getting into business arrangements with the government. It just doesn't end, I mean, it doesn't end well because they answer to nobody. They just, they're just going to come take your check. They're. If you're gonna, if you get into the student loan world, you are making a deal with the government.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If you don't pay your taxes, you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don'T pay your taxes. You're making a deal with the government. And it's just, it's frustrating. It is what it is. But man, they win a hundred percent of the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the number they got Vegas beat on that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, and the number, well, at least.

[Dave Ramsey]

Vegas, Vegas just wins most of, most of the time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. And the number of folks, the students I worked with over the years that just think it's gonna go away.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not gonna, doesn't it just stuff has a, it's bigger like rate of resurrection.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It will come back to life. Zombie debt just keeps coming back.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for being with us. Ryan is in Detroit, Michigan. Hi, Ryan. How are you? Good.

[Caller]

How are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay, so I'm, I've been following your, your baby steps and they've been working out very well for me. I'm active duty military and I'm on baby step Six. Well, my wife and I are on baby step six and we're just wondering, with us moving every four to five years, would it be wise to put money into the house to pay down the mortgage or to put the money aside in a savings or investment account?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, when you move, you're going to sell the house and they're going to give you a check.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

She'll put it into the mortgage and then someday there won't be a mortgage. And when you sell the house, they're going to give you a check and when you buy the house, you're going to give them a 10 check. Someday there'll be no mortgage and you move from no mortgage to no mortgage. All right, cool. Deal. Yeah. Forced savings plan. Now, a couple of guidelines. Which branch are you in? Okay. Thank you for your service, by the way. Yeah, so you're not moving but every five years or so, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, we, we move every, every four. We can possibly extend to five.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. Because a lot of the army guys are every two, so Navy as well. So especially earlier in their. We work with the military a lot. Thank you again. But anyway, the thing to be sure of is it's not always in your case, it's more likely, but it's not always a good idea to buy.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what you want to be sure of is during your time in the market, is the property going to increase enough in value to bother to own it? It. So if you're only there two years and you're in a flat real estate market, you would not buy, you would rent.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You're better off. You're going to lose money. And if you're in a flat real estate market, you can't sell it when you get ready to leave. Now your postings are largely around non military base situations. You're in more of a civilian setting, right? Yes. Yeah. Like you're not going into one of these huge forts or you know, whatever, these huge military communities where lots of people have bought a house and now they got them on the market. Cause they move every two years. You don't have that issue. You're dealing with more direct consumers that are non military. So that's gonna help you make money on the resale. Cause the market doesn't get glutted, it doesn't get full. And so, you know, so for instance, my buddies in the Navy that are in San Diego, they do real well on a house. Right. But if you move out in the middle of a cornfield in Kansas and there's nobody there but other military people, you're going to lose your butt on the house.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So just be careful with that kind of stuff. Now, again, your situation, because unique to the Coast Guard, is going to be very different because obviously it's residing mainly around the coast. And so. Duh. And so. Yeah, that. That puts you in a different thing. And so I, I think in most cases it's not going to apply to you. You're going to make money, so buying is going to be a good idea. So the answer to your question just stands. Getting paid off as fast as possible. Be sure when you buy next time you pay cash and pay it off. If you don't pay it off as soon as possible. And every time just move your equity from place to place to place. And then when you someday land and retire and you land in the place you're going to stay in, you've got. I paid for a house. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Part of me, Dave, would be so tempted to rent in the least in the place where, like, had the bare minimum, where we could live. Like, this is good for us for right now. My friends in the military always say. Yeah, but there's a psychological component. You get moved every few years. It's important to have tent stakes. And I get that. But there's a balance. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need the Taj Mahal, but you really don't want to be camping either.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah, there's. There's a balance.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's hard on mama. Yeah. Hard on the spouses, kids. They need to have a home. Yeah. And you're doing this for 20 years. So. So you're not Bedouins, you're just in the military. So they do live in tents, but.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, but the thought of putting five different houses on the market over the course of 20 years drive me crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're a corporate gypsy, you got the same thing, though.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're in a corporate setting and they move you every so often and you're bouncing city to city, going up the ladder. In corporate America, you got the same exact thing. But you gotta be able to sell the house. Cause the market you're in, you can't be buying in a dead butt market. Some kind of market where there's not any activity because it's not gonna increase in value. And then you got 273 days on the market.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nine months, you're looking at this stupid.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thing and y' all are gonna end up renting somewhere else.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yep. Because you can't get your.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You can't get in, you're gonna move twice in those foots. It just becomes messy. And I get the psychological. Like, if somebody's telling you when to beware, where you're going to live, what you're going to do, when you get what you got to wear, I get the idea of I have to have one thing that's my own. It's just being careful about that thing not completely owning you again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right, exactly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I get it. But, man, that's tough.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's tough. But it also. So, you know, you can't apply the TikTok version of culture. Everybody ought to buy real estate. No, not really. Yeah, not really. There's certain times you don't. Not a good idea. Real estate's not good when you're playing short game. Short game. Real estate's stupid. Yeah. So it gets you caught. It's a problem. Devin is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Devin. How are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. How are you today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I am a pastor, and I wanted to pick your brain on a possible career move. I make 40,000 a year, and I was thinking about moving into a different career, either in plumbing or home remodel. And I just had some concerns about where we're at financially and wanted to see how you would go about doing that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, plumbing is basically the same job as a pastor, isn't it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I guess in one area of thinking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my God. Gosh. Wow, that's an interesting move. So you just burn out on pastoring or what?

[Caller]

Yeah, my wife and I, we coming out of College. We're both 28 years old, and we had several jobs right after the other that were all just really hard. And you know the old expression sheep bite? So that's just. We had some hard times, and so spiritually, we're needing to take a step back, and I like working with my hands, and one day I want to own my own business. And so those were the areas I was thinking about.

Does.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, they do, and that's a shame, but they do. You're right. Okay, well, the. The. The question is, how can you make the conversion without it being some kind of a leap? Conversion is not the right word. How can you make the transition without it being some kind of a leap? Yeah. Poor choice. Yeah. But the. So, I mean, like, I don't want you to go make nothing to get to be a plumber. Let's start as an intern or doing stuff on the weekends or whatever to learn to do that. I don't want you to start from ground zero with no jobs as home remodel. Have you done home remodeling?

[Caller]

No, sir. I would be starting from. From nothing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Do you know someone in the business?

[Caller]

I have.

I have some ideas of where I could. I could find some people.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to edge in and go learn the business somewhere before you just open a business.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. I was thinking of specifically with like plumbing or remodeling. Starting as, you know, just working with someone else first and then moving back.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you had someone that hired you to. That you don't know anything about remodeling and you're going to go to work for them, do you have any idea what they would pay you?

[Caller]

No, sir.

In our area in Oklahoma City, I mean, I'm assuming it, you know, making $40,000 a year is.

[Dave Ramsey]

You could probably make that.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I make that shoveling drywall.

[Caller]

Yeah, exactly. So I wasn't as concerned about that. My wife and I are. We just finished baby step two.

[Dave Ramsey]

So as long as you're making the same money as you're making now and you're making it instantaneously, there's no change to your family other than you shifted what you do every day?

[Caller]

Yes, I think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mathematically, if you make 40,000 as a plumber working for a plumber or you make 40,000 working for a home remodel person and you make 40,000 now you just changed jobs mathematically. Okay. Doesn't affect it at all. Agreed.

[Caller]

I agree. I just wanted to make sure that that was actually I wasn't just fooling myself. And you know, having rose colored.

[Dave Ramsey]

Colored glasses about rose colored glasses would be. I don't know anything about remodeling. And I just bought a hammer and I opened a remodeling company.

[Caller]

That's fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

That would be rose colored glasses. That would be a fool, but I talk to those sometimes. But you're not it. And so no. So I want you to. If you can make the same money and make your change and then begin to learn a craft in an effort to say, five years from now, I'm gonna make the move into my own space, then I'm fine with that. And there's nothing to say you can't serve in the church church for the rest of your life. Most of us do. And sometimes those ministries are as effective as staff.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. In the Fair Winds credit union studio. Dr. John DeLoney Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Sarah is in Baton Rouge. Hi Sarah, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm good, thank you. Better than I deserve, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Amen. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I am a divorced single mom of two boys. I am their primary caregiver and one day I would like to remarry. But I am slated to inherit at least like $5 million of today's value. Hopefully I won't inherit it for another 20 years. But I just wanted to know yalls thoughts on a prenup. If that was something that would be good for my situation or. I wanted to know what y' all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thought about that in your situation. I do recommend it. Full disclosure. When I first started the show I said never get a prenup if you like stuff more than the person. Don't get me married. Marriage is hard enough. Right? That was kind of my stance. But then after doing about, I don't know, two decades of financial coaching and crisis counseling where I found a bunch of weirdos involved, I changed my stance on prenups. And the reason I changed it was what I discovered in actual reality. Out here walking around in the wild. Is that where there is a dramatic amount of money difference or just a dramatic amount of money?

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

The prenup not only helps the actual married couple but more importantly it Helps the weirdos in their family.

[Caller]

I didn't think about that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, like, you marry a beautiful, wonderful man, and cousin Eddie shows up and wants to open a pizza parlor with your money, like a day after the honeymoon moon, right? That's the crap that happens. And then your beautiful, wonderful man just goes, cousin Eddie, I got prenup. I can't say nothing. And you just look at cousin Eddie and go, you can have a biscuit, and then we're gonna send you on your way. And you know that you can just. You can do it. Because the weirdos in one ring or two rings or three rings out, sometimes it's the parents, sometimes it's the kids, sometimes it's cousin Eddie. I don't know who it is, but the weirdos were the one. And then what happens is they drive a wedge between you and your spouse.

[Caller]

Relationally, that's what I didn't want to happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the prenup is not to protect you from this wonderful man you meet. He's probably okay.

[Caller]

That's the goal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean that really. You probably got pretty good taste, right? And so he's probably not the problem. It might be, but, you know, but the 5 million versus, he's got a normal network of 4 or 500,000 or nothing or whatever. And he's just a good dude that works hard and saves his money and pays his bills and whatever. And you guys love Jesus, and you're going to church, and life is good, right? Everything's good. So y' all will be fine. But this just keeps everybody clear. But you shouldn't do that on small amounts of money. Like, I had one lady call up and say her boyfriend wanted a prenup for his 1967 Mustang. And I'm like, hey, don't marry this guy. He likes cars more than he likes you.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Stupid car. Really. No, that's. That's just that. That is. That's planning your divorce right there. That's different.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, Sarah, I want to ask Dave a question on your behalf. Okay, great. Dave, if you're Sarah and you. Somebody sets you up and you roll your eyes, and you're like, I'll go. And you have a great day. Time you go out again. And you go out again, when would you sit down and say, hey, I got $5 million in an account. Would that be something you wait till you're engaged to talk about? Would that be in something? Because my.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would not get engaged before they knew. Before you. Way before that. But, I mean, at the same time, you would talk about anything in your account. Like, you know, let's start talking about money. Or you don't do that on the first date. That'd be weird. You know, But I mean, once you start talking about using language in your sentences, about spending a lot, building a future together. Building a future together, then you start going, well, that includes. Let's talk about your crazy mother. Yeah, let's talk about your. Let's talk about, you know, what do you feel about debt? I can't stand debt. I did that Dave Ramsey thing. You know, some people do that on the first date. That's strange. But. But the. But, yeah, that I think is strange. But, yeah. I think as you're getting serious in the relationship, you start talking about the important things. I want to know exactly where you stand on religion, on money, on in laws, on kids. They're going to know about your kids immediately. And you don't have the 5 million right now anyway. It's off in the future somewhere. Yes, sir. And hypothetically, something could go sideways and you didn't even get it.

[Caller]

Absolutely. Yeah. It's. You know, I definitely try to be a good steward of the money that I'm blessed with. And I know that this is not money that I've earned, so I don't expect it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just, I. You know, and I would just say it has nothing to do with you. I've just gotten good counsel that says all the people in our lives are. It gives us a boundary with them if we have this done. Yeah. I think when you start talking about the important things in life, the money would be on the list. Yeah. Not because money's important, but because what it represents. Yeah. And I don't know, what do you think? You're the PhD in counseling. When should you bring it up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think you're right. I. I think I would. This is me personally. I think I would always be haunted by. Did that accelerate our relationship? Did that get you more excited to marry me? Which for myself is. Is my own red flag. It'd be a me red flag, not a them red fl.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't know. There's something like, I'm a romantic at heart, and there's something cool about my wife getting married and her being like, oh, by the way, when I told you we were well off, like, we're. Here's. Here's the number. That sounds awesome. That's not reality.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. That's some kind of book. Fiction. Book.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Exactly. So, yeah, I think you have to put on the table, and I think you have to get through the initial discomfort of maybe him thinking, oh, I wanted to be the macho breadwinner, and suddenly I'm marrying somebody who's a multimillionaire or vice versa. You putting the discomfort on the table. I'm. I'm nervous to say this out loud because I'm. I'm afraid you're going to like me more just because I've got this inherited.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wealth or it's just going to cause weirdness.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's just going to cause weirdness.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but money does that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But it. All relationships have to get through weirdness and awkwardness and just an uncomfortable conversation. So it's just another one in a long list of uncomfortable conversations anybody getting together is going to have to have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And constant.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it's always going on. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, Sarah, you know, it's interesting. I tell people when we're just talking about money in general that wealth magnifies everything, the good and the bad. So, like, if someone has a temper and they become wealthy, they become a bully. Crazy. If someone is compassionate and generous and they become wealthy, they become what we call a philanthropist. And they're constantly known for their generosity. That becomes their personal brand, you know? And so if crazy is in your family and all of us have crazy in our family, if you don't think you have crazy in your family, it's you. Yeah. So, I mean, everybody's got crazy. So crazy in your family is magnified. And so that's what I'm looking at with this 5 million. It's going to magnify everything. And it's going to magnify the awkwardness that John is talking about in the dating relationship.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you know what? You just said something important. I would actually relationally lead with. Here's who I am. I'm a person who tips like crazy. I'm a person who gives to my church or to charitable organizations. That's who I am. I would lead with the identity part early on in a relationship as we get to know each other.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm a person who doesn't borrow money that way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. I'm a person who borrow money.

[Dave Ramsey]

I believe in saving money. I believe in living on a plan.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then my budget. I plan my.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Here's how much money I got. Yeah, I like.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then later on. And oh, by the way, my. My mom and dad are rich. They left me a bunch of money when they die. So there you go. That's way down the list, though. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

Today's question comes from Abigail in Indiana. Abigail writes, my husband passed away very recently.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I have a problem with family and friends who have started asking for personal items that belong to him. Some of the requests are for sentimental reasons, but there are also requests for things that are of monetary value. I'm still grieving and not ready to make these decisions right now. Now what is the morally right thing to do?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm still grieving and I'm not ready to make these decisions right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or I'm not doing anything. I'm not giving away anything for nine months and I'll get back to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm, I'm. I'll tell you what. I'm keeping a little list and I'll put you down the list. But right now I'm just crying. You have no moral obligation. None whatsoever. Zero to start handing out stuff especially. It just feels like vultures circling.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It does feel gross.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, yeah, and I want Grandma's china. Yeah oh, brother. It's like a bad Hallmark movie.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And by the way, if somebody says, oh, I was really hoping to get that, then they've crossed their name off the list. The friend that says, hey, we used to go hunting together, and he had this awesome rifle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can I buy it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would love to buy it from you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or when you're ready. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you say, hey, in nine months, I'm not ready. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I'm going to make sure all of his other friends know that's. That's. Somebody put a star by on their name. But if someone's like, oh, really?

[Dave Ramsey]

I. I deserve this. Yeah, you deserve.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He promised me I could out. Yeah, man. Gross, gross, gross.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's hard, people. This is gross. And she's says, passed away very recently.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Isn't like a year? Sounds like a month ago or a couple weeks ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like three days later. Here they come. Want my casserole dish back. And I want grandma's Bible. Yeah. I mean, come on.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's so. The. The. The other side of this is funny. Sharon's dad is 96, getting ready to be 97, in perfect health and perfect mind. He's a wonderful, wonderful man. And he is so funny. He's like, everybody gets you a sticky note and put something on it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's how my grandparents were.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you go through the whole house, there's freaking sticky notes on everything.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's how my grandparents were.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like, oh, somebody got to that one before us.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You do underneath it? You had to do it underneath.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's on the back of the picture.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you had to look and see.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's so funny. It's like, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But hey, I actually like that. It's first come, first serve. You want to come visit me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, and he's doing it. He's initiating while he's alive. That's right. It's. That's like his will. That's my grandmother. Part of his will. Yeah, it's just. It's funny.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, y' all want something? Here's some sticky notes. No, it keeps the fighting.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Just imagine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Promise me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Imagine the conversation of me calling even one of my closest friends spout wife.

[Dave Ramsey]

The chances of me asking for something is zero.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I just can't imagine. I'm trying to figure out how that.

[Dave Ramsey]

How about, how would you. The only conversation is what I can get give.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What can I do?

[Dave Ramsey]

How can I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

By the way, he had that shirt I really wanted. Like, I can I have a Can I have a sofa?

[Dave Ramsey]

A fish and tackle? What are you people? Some believe Tiffany is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi Tiffany. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call. This is exciting, exciting to have you.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[Caller]

Great. Yeah. So my husband and I, along with my mom, we are planning to move to Florida to be closer to both of our families. We unfortunately lost my dad back in December and so this move was put as close to my brother and his family. And then my husband's family just moved down to the same area back last fall.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

My question is, my. Yeah. My husband and I, we are both 43. We are in baby step two. We've been tackling our debt very hard this year. We've already paid off about 25,000. We have 65,000 consumer debt left. So my question is when we get ready to make this move because we do have two houses that we have to get cleaned out and sold when we are ready.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stop, stop, stop, stop. We don't have anything. Do you own a house?

[Caller]

No. What? We, we have a mortgage on our home.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean you have a house, you and your husband have a house and then your mother in law has a house.

[Caller]

My mom has a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So there's not. We don't have two houses. She has a house and you have a house.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. But you're going to help her with the clean out and all that. We're going to help, but this is not, we're not turning this into a commune. Okay?

[Caller]

No, no, no, no. They were married for 55 years. They have 55 years worth of stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh God. And hoarders. Yes.

[Caller]

I got you on an acre of property and four buildings. So we have some work to do there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But that's just helping her move. Okay. And then you got to sell your house. So what is your house worth?

[Caller]

So our house, we right now we're anywhere between 100 to 120. We're expecting to make as a profit on the sale of our home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so it pays off the 65 and you got some money to put move with.

[Caller]

Correct. Which was my question is do you suggest that when we are ready to, you know, get a little closer to this, which the goal is to start working on this in January that we pause our baby steps and stack up cash knowing that there is going to be expenses to move from.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're going to give you a check when you sell your house.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need to stack up cash. You're getting. You're getting $100,000.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Caller]

I wasn't sure. I knew, yes, we're gonna get the money. I just didn't know if. To be proactive, to have a little bit of saved up, you know, before we do that. So I wasn't sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the issue. Okay? Here, let's pretend that you pay, that you save up $10,000. Okay?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you don't pay $10,000 worth of debt when you sell your house. That's $10,000 more of debt you have to pay.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

She didn't really gain anything.

[Caller]

No. So it's like 6 of 1/2 of the other. And that's what I wasn't sure on. Like, I was, I think, just looking, crunching the numbers too much and just driving myself nuts.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what I would do is just make the move 100% debt free and have an emergency fund. If you have enough left after that to put a down payment on a house in Florida, buy. If not, you may have to rent for a couple years and save up your down payment in Florida, but you're debt free with an emergency fund.

[Caller]

Well, here's the other part of the question. With the sale of my mom's home, her and my dad did everything correctly. She is debt free. She has already discussed, in gifting us on the sale of her home, gifting us money for the down payment for the house in Florida.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is she going to be living with you?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, complicated. Complicated.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. A little complicated.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have siblings?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's why they're moving.

[Caller]

We do, yes. I have an older brother. This is something we have discussed. This was. This process of moving was something that my dad had very much wanted to do. That was the goal. Unfortunately, his health just didn't hold.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would just. I would get it. I would get it all in writing and just to make sure everybody's clear.

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah, we're getting it.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you take a portion, is it just you and your brother?

[Caller]

Yes, it's just my brother and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So if you take a. Let's pretend that there's a half million dollars of inheritance when your mom passes away. Okay. Your brother's gonna get 250, you're gonna get 250, but she's gonna give you of that 250, 150 upfront before she dies.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then that uncomplicates it greatly. If she only has 150 and it all goes in your house and your brother gets scratched unless you resell your house when she dies. This is not a good plan.

[Caller]

No, that one. We've. We've looked at it with the financial advisor. She has. There. There is enough right now without factoring in any interest that grows on any of her IRAs and all that that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your brother would be easily getting half without touching your house you live in. Okay.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

That makes it a lot cleaner then. All she's doing is advancing you part of your inheritance and she's going to live with you in. In return for the advance. Yeah. Okay, that's cool. That's cool. Yeah, but that gives you a real incentive to get everything cleaned up and shiny and let's get it all sold off, load up the truck and head to Beverly Hills. That is swimming pools, movie stars, black gold. This is t. Gotta be old to know what that is. Gotta be really old. Right there in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Eladio and Carla are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. Hi, John.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome. Good to have you guys. Where do you live?

[Caller]

We're in Los Angeles, California.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And here to do a debt free scream all the way across the nation. So how much debt did you two pay off?

[Caller]

With your advice and with God's grace, we paid off 312,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. How long did this take? Five years. Five years. Very cool.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow, it's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait, y' all are impressive. Your range of income during that five.

[Caller]

Years, it was 100 to 130,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. And what do you guys do for a living? I work for UPS and also in a restaurant.

[Caller]

And I'm a physical therapist as well. Assistant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. What kind of Debt was this? 312, 000. It's a mortgage. The mortgage. You have a house in Los Angeles that's paid for? Yes. Y' all really are weirdos. I love it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Amazing, guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great weirdos. Awesome. What's the house worth? About. About 600, 000. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Congratulations. Thank you. You guys, you know that in California it's illegal to own your house? I know.

[Caller]

Yes, we've heard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh my gosh. This is great, y'. All, I'm so proud of you. What in the world? This is so cool. And how old are you two?

[Caller]

We're 39.

[Dave Ramsey]

39 years old. You don't even pay for $600,000 house in Los Angeles, California. How much in your nest egg? In your savings? Your retirement savings?

[Caller]

We haven't checked.

[Dave Ramsey]

We haven't checked.

[Caller]

Autopilot. We forgot about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

About have to Check about.

[Caller]

We're not millionaires yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not quite. Not. Not. Not 400k then.

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Cuz there's 400k with a 600k house. You'll be baby steps millionaire. All right, but you're. You're on your way. At 40 years old, you're almost there, and you're saving like crazy, working two jobs. You're doing everything very neat, and you paid off your home. In five years, it's worth 600K. What in the. Tell me how y' all got started on all this Ramsey stuff.

[Caller]

So how we got started. Seven years ago, it was, you know, a coworker that introduced us to the baby steps. His name's David. And he got me started on the. On the financial piece online, the self study. And so I try to get my husband on board. He resisted. You know, he wanted to do his own thing. But what finally did it was the biblical principles that you teach. So, yeah, you know, his word, God's word, never returned empty. And the word just started to transform and edify our lives. And I was just starting my Christian walk at that time, so, yeah, it was really the word.

[Dave Ramsey]

What church do you all attend in Los Angeles?

[Caller]

It's in Pomona, and it's called Prius de Aguaviva. Prius de Aguaviva. Spanish on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Spanish church. Okay. All right. And so obviously you're a Hispanic community. What country were you from? I'm from Mexico. Mexico. Awesome. Very cool. What part? Guerrero. Oh, yeah. Fun. Okay, cool. Cool. Good deal.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what was it like, your wife comes in and says, hey, I went to church. You can't buy anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No clothes, cars. We're getting out of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's kind of hard to do that. But she. She made it. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what do you do for ups?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I work in a underground airport. Okay, so just moving the. The cans to the airplane.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then what do you do in the restaurant?

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, help to the servers. Okay. All right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So here's what's important. And you're a. You're a physician.

[Caller]

You're physical therapist.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So y'.

[Dave Ramsey]

All.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Neither of y' all are working executive jobs?

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're not working upper management jobs? Y' all are out there grinding it out.

[Caller]

Yeah.

And we started from nothing like poverty. Like, we were living off of his income as a cook before. Before he, like, moved up and. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you're throwing boxes and helping servers, and you're. I was in school dealing with egos.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, you're helping clients. Y' all are grinding it out.

[Caller]

Yeah.

He's had two jobs for forever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But this, but this. But you. You know as well as anybody, the. The story is you cannot get ahead. You can't do it. It's impossible. You can't do it. Nobody can do it. Unless you are one of these, these special unicorn jobs.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you guys, you guys just did it. Anyway, hold my. Hold my beer. Here we go. I mean, this is incredible.

[Caller]

Glory to God.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen. Way to go, God. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

God, I'm speechless right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's so cool.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, y' all have a couple accomplished is so amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're heroes. Thank you. You've changed your whole family tree. And your proof that you're proof that the great American dream is alive and well.

[Caller]

Yes, it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very proud of y'. All.

[Caller]

Anything is possible with Christ.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, in two jobs for five years also. Grinding and grinding and grinding.

[Dave Ramsey]

The diligent prosper. Yeah. Proverbs says so. Here we go. Excellence in the ordinary over time. That's diligence. Yeah. Way to go, y'. All. Way to go. Impressive. All right, so when one of your friends comes up and he's making fun of you when you're moving some boxes around at the airport about. About you bringing your sandwich so you can get out of debt, right? And he goes, ah, you can't do that. You say, yeah, you can. All you got to do is. What do you tell them the main thing you got to do to get out of debt? Well, just don't spend anything if you don't need it. You don't have to spend money. Would you please run for Congress?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Please, Please. We need you desperately. Hell, out here, we need you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's amazing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You don't need it. Just don't buy it. Ta da.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil. But a foolish man devours all he has. Wise people save money. You got it, man. You're a wise man. Yeah, you're a wise man. What's the one thing that you married a wise woman.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You wish you could could have bought.

[Caller]

Maybe his a truck before. He still doesn't have it, but yeah, he's been wanting a truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now you can save up and get one pretty quick, huh? No house payment. We had to cut those things. Do what?

[Caller]

We had to cut a lot of things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Now. Now you. What's the first big thing now that you don't have a house payment, what's the thing you're going to go buy?

[Caller]

Right now we're just going to do a couple house projects, pay cash for that, and travel a little bit more.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good, good. Breathe a little.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you've been. You've been getting it. Yeah. You've been shoveling hard.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So way to go, you two. I'm very proud of you. You're heroes. You're amazing. Those two beautiful children there have had their whole lives changed. And your grandchildren and your great grandchildren's lives have been changed because of you. Paying a price to win. You're amazing. Very cool. All right, bring them up and introduce them. I want to meet them. What are their names and ages?

[Caller]

Amy, she's 10. And this is Kate, she's 7.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, they're beautiful. All right. Very cool, very cool. I can tell. I think they're daddy's girls.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm about to say something. When you watch. If you go back and watch this YouTube, watching a dad smile that big as he watches his daughters is one of my favorite things in the whole wide world. Seeing a dad so proud of his two beautiful daughters. Amazing, man. You guys are just.

[Caller]

Yeah, we're very proud of them for being with us during our struggles and living this experience with us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they'll remember. They'll remember even being here and doing that weird debt free scream thing with that weird hillbilly guy in Tennessee. Yeah. But that marked the time. This is the time. Your whole thing has changed now. It's all changed, and you did it very, very well.

[Caller]

Ready for the sandwich generation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen. Amen. Well, there's that, but we can put some meat on the sandwich. I'm just saying. All right. Very good. All right. Eladio, Carla, Amy, and Kate from Los Angeles. $600,000 houses paid for, 312,000 in debt paid off in five years working at UPS and as a cook in a restaurant. And she is a physical therapist assistant or pt. Pta. Pta. Okay, Perfect. Yeah, Cool. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Caller]

Ready?

Three, two, one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where's the free.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Boom. Yes. Ed. Never gets old. I've been doing this 30 years, and I never cease to get choked up. Okay. Especially when somebody that works that's stinking hard to make this happen.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That one got me.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Sa. You know, when you're tackling debt or you're building wealth, people can often forget about one more important step, and that's while you're playing defense. You can play off. I mean, you're not playing offense. You need to also play defense, and that's insurance. Having the right Coverage as opposed to too little or too much and not getting junk coverage and all that stuff. Skimping on insurance or buying stupid insurance. These things will kill you. They'll mess up your math big time. So how do you know? Well, you take the free coverage [e-mail] it's a free online resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan unique to you and your situation. Makes an overly confusing topic easy to understand, gives you clear next steps. Go to ramseysolutions.com checkup to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Amy is in Philadelphia. Hi, Amy. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Great. I have a question. I have a rental property and I've had a tenant who's been in there for three years, and she just lost her job and she wasn't able to pay August rent. And I'm trying to follow up with September rent, and I want to be, you know, aware of her situation, but I also just wanted to see maybe how you would handle, you know, not getting paid her portion of the rent and what I can do to work with her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Her portion of the rent?

[Caller]

Yeah. So there's three tenants and the. There's three tenants, and I just charge a monthly fee. However they pay for it, they pay for it. So they just split it up in three ways is how they've been paying for. So the other two are paying their rent, but the other one, you know, she lost her job.

[Dave Ramsey]

So do you have a lease with the three of them in total or a lease with each individual?

[Caller]

Three of them in total.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So the only way you evict is all of them.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the other people are sitting there thinking they're current.

[Caller]

I think, because they.

[Dave Ramsey]

Think they paid their part and they think you're okay.

[Caller]

Yeah, I talked to her and see if she wanted to bring the. Like, if I should bring the other tenants into it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, definitely. They're on the lease. They're going to get evicted with her.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So they need to. They needed to have already been in the loop, like, as immediately, as soon as you were. So, okay, guys, here's the thing. The three of you have together told me you're going to pay me X number of dollars. You chose to split it up three ways. Okay. So you are behind on your rent group.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because of her losing her job. Now, do you guys want to come. Do you guys want to come together? And cover her until she gets a job or how are we going to work this out?

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to sit down with the three of them. Are you near the property?

[Caller]

Physically, I'm not. I'm about two hours away.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then get on. Get a phone call with all three of them on the phone and say, here's what's going on. I probably should have brought you into the loop a little bit sooner because you probably feel like you're current and you're not. Okay. So now then, from that position, once we've gotten clarity on where we all stand, that either we all three pay all the rent or we all three can't stay long term, that's our solution. Now then, from that point, everybody's on the same page. Everybody can talk, and then you can decide how much mercy and grace you want to dole out.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've already doled out a month of 1/3.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're getting ready to dole out another month of 1 3rd 3rd, like, right. Today.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. So this is this. How long are you going to go along with this before she goes and gets a job doing doordash and pays her dad gum rent?

[Caller]

Yeah, I. I guess I don't know that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to know. You're going to get taken advantage of if you don't know. I don't care how much generosity or mercy you want to extend. It doesn't bother me a bit because I do the same thing. We had a tenant that had cancer and we didn't charge them rent for four months. But we said at the outset, when the chemo starts, we're going to give you four months. And let's see how this goes. You've been a good tenant for three years. We're just going to forgive the rent. We're not going to charge you. You've got enough to deal with. I don't owe any money on the house. You can live here free for four months. And after four months, we're going to revisit in the third month before. Before we decide how long. But we're not going to do this for eight years while you go through chemo.

[Caller]

Right. I guess, like, it would say for me would probably be three months because I do have the security deposit, which would cover, like, her third. Like if she didn't pay for three months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. So, you know, it might sound like, here's what I want to do. The first thing I want to do, shock them, stick them with a cattle prod. All right. And get everybody on the same page where they're going, oh, no. Oh, crap. Right? And we go, okay, wait a minute. We all getting ready to have to move because June doesn't have a job. Right. Or whatever her name is. Right. And so we got to figure this out together. We have a problem. Not June. All right? And not Amy. Amy doesn't have a problem. Amy's getting ready to get her house back. So now, now, based on that, guys, here's what I'm willing to do. You guys get together and figure out a way to cover September and October between June working part time jobs while she's looking for a full time job and you two chipping at in and I'll forgive her portion for August.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or something like that. You can offer a gift, but only in context of a limited arrangement that also. Does that make sense to you?

[Caller]

Yeah, it does, it does. Because like, I mean, I've already gone without in August, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, and you're probably gonna go without in September unless you get on the phone to day, but you guys can catch me up a little bit later in September. But the three of you between a part time job and the two of you catching on to what's going on here, need to come up with September's rent. And you two go ahead and send me your two thirds. We got to come up with June's third. And then y' all figure out between now and October how to do it. And y' all get current and stay current and I'll. In return, I'll forgive one third of this just to try to help y' all make the corner. But she needs to go get a chance job. Listen, there, there's not a program where she stays free anywhere homeless shelter. Right, but that's it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And Amy, her roommates, her friends are going to be an infinitely more influential voice in her life than yours. You have an on, off switch. You have an either or switch. They can sit down with her and say, hey, we love you. We're going to help you with your resume, we're going to call our friends, we'll see if we can get you a job here. But if you're looking for to be graceful for life change, they're going to be closer to that. Yeah, you just have a big hammer.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you can be kind and gentle, but firm.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Exactly. I love that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and you're not being firm right now. You've been very vague and unclear.

[Caller]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because right now they think they're okay, and that's not fair. To them, the two that paid their rent, they think everything cool, right? And the way you've got this lease structured, it ain't cool. They're in jeopardy too, right? So it's all. It's not. Again, we're not trying to be mean, but first thing I want to do is throw cold water and everybody gets awake. And now we've turned the lights on in the room. And now that the lights are on in the room, everybody can talk and we go, okay, now how can we all work together to solve this in a gentle and kind, compassionate way, but a very effective businesslike way at the same time. And so we're going to solve the problem. We're going to solve for. For the problem. And then you're going to put some of it on them. You're going to help a little. I don't know if you give up August or not. That was a suggestion of mine. It's not a mandatory thing. You're not a horrible person if you don't. You're not a horrible person if you give up her third for August and September. I don't care. But I do care for a lack of clarity. You're going to get yourself in a bind and you're not being fair to them. And I do care. The lack of clarity also on the no limitation, patience. There has to be an end to this because there's no place if you got cancer or you don't have a job, there's no place that you live for free. Ultimately, I mean, we can be kind for, but it's. This is not forever. It's not a for. This is not an infinite spectrum. There has to be at some point there's an end to it. And that's where people remember the story 25 years later when they don't put limits on stuff. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds credit union studio. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host. So Samantha is in California. Hi Samantha, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. I'm good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up? How can we help?

[Caller]

So I have listened to you and followed your plan for years. We're currently on baby step six. I'm employed and I also co own a business with my husband. Unfortunately we're probably getting divorced due to infidelity on his side. And I will receive a substantial settlement after the division of our assets. With the divorce money, I'll be paying off the rest of the mortgage. That'll be debt free. My question is, with the remaining money, should I keep my lifestyle the same so that it doesn't change much for my three young kids and me or should I save it and invest it for the future and just live off of my income?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so one of the things that's being divested is your half of the business that you run to together, correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you're still going to be working there?

[Caller]

No. So he would need to buy me out of the business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what will you be doing for a living then?

[Caller]

So I am a nurse. So I, I have a good income from that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so you're all you currently are nursing and working in the business?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay, I misunderstood. All right, I'm back with you now. And so the, the. Okay, so what do you make as a nurse?

[Caller]

So I make about 90,000 a year gross.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, that's excellent. It's a great career by the way. You get to pick and choose what you want to do when you want to do it and make a lot of money. And you can live on that I assume with a paid for house?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah, I've run through the finances and we would be fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how old are your babies?

[Caller]

They are five, six and seven.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And if you can live on 90,000 in a paid for house, that is not the lifestyle that the 5 year old is accustomed to.

[Caller]

So they go to a private Christian school, They're in all kinds of sports, we travel a lot. So it's just, it would be cutting back on some things. It would just be like a little bit tight for what they're used to.

[Dave Ramsey]

And who's paying for the Christian. Do you all pay splitting the Christian school? As to the divorce.

[Caller]

That'S a good question. He doesn't love the idea that they're there so it would probably fall on me. He would rather than be at a public.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you haven't negotiated the settlement yet. I don't care what he wants he decided he wanted somebody else and that takes a lot of the care what he wants out of the whole thing. So I don't give a crap what he wants. The once he decides not to behave, my care for him has gone away. So the. Alright, so what do you guys make now? What's your current household income?

[Caller]

It's hard with a business. I've like run the numbers for the actual business valuation and it's about 1.7 million the valuation.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean what's your income?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Making a couple of hundred a year and then you're making 90 a year.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And. But he's going to be paying child support, correct? Of course, yes. And substantial in California with a $250,000 income. And what is the lump sum you're getting? How much money?

[Caller]

What I've calculated out to be would be like after paying off the house and keeping the equity in the house because I'm assuming I'm going to hopefully be able to stay in the. I would get around 650,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so if we pretend like that doesn't exist and we count child support and you live on 90,000, we deal with the Christian school and the divorce decree. He pays half and you pay half. I think you can trim some of the travel sports back and a little bit of the ultra luxury travel back and get your life in a sustainable situation on 100 grand a year. That's what I would do. I would not touch the 650 I'd pay off the house. And then you ought to be able to live on 90 even in California. And believe me, the ones that are going to be more impacted by the lifestyle cut than anyone is you. And they're going to take their cues from you. They're five. They don't. They really don't like oh, you mean we don't get to fly private? You know that doesn't come up with a five year old.

[Caller]

Right? Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Here's two things I want you to be One thing to be careful of and one thing to be super cognizant of. Okay. The first thing is this. You have calculated on the back of a napkin, probably anxiously typing away at Excel sheets or however you're dealing with the stress of all of this, whatever number you've come up with will probably not be the final number.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And the problem with that is if you have imagined that you're going to get a check for $1.2 million, pay off the hou. The 600,000 remaining on the house and put 650 grand. If you get a check for a million dollars, you're going to feel like he stole 200 grand from you. Your kids will feel it, you'll feel it. The whole thing will go south. And so I want you to open, be very open handed with the imaginary money you're playing with right now because you' going to, they're going to get three different evaluations of this business that might range all over the place in a, in a divorce court or a media mediator might tell you to take the average. Who knows how this rolls out. And so it's holding it very open handed. You're entering into a very messy, heartbreaking situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I get on your side trying to control every variable because some guy just blew your life, life up. I get that impulse. And you want to take care of your kids. Mama bear's coming out. I get all that. But just hold the math part very loosely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not because I want you to be weak in the negotiation.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not at all. Be firm and strong.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I want you to take everything but the in the negotiation. That's not the point. Matter of fact, I'd be okay if you got 1.5 when you come out of this thing. So. Suits me fine. He chose. It's just an expensive decision what he made. And so the. Because a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction. An adversarial business transaction. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not a win win business transaction, but adversarial.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so child support, lump sums for businesses, alimony, all of those things are on the table until they're not on the table and you agree to whatever you agree to in the settlement. But we start with I'm holding a winning hand and you screwed up. That's where we should start. And so, and then we, you know, then we decide which cards we want to play, which chips we want to move to the center. Those kinds of things to John's point. But don't get all dialed in on a certain number and then only to find out that you missed one of your calculations.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, he has hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt you don't know about. And it's gonna. Who knows what the, what plays out when people start opening up all their bank accounts and text messages, etc. Here's the other thing I want you to be very careful of. People like to say things like I, I don't want my kids lives to change and you need to exhale that every part of their life is different now.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so too late.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Fully owning their sports is going to be Different. Their Saturday mornings are going to be different because now you're going to be working full time. And so your ability to just hop in a car and go on a trip or to do this sport or that sport or whatever, what, everything's different now. And so trying to hang on to their life as it is and duct tape all this other stuff to it creates an angst in that house that those kids, it will just permeate their bodies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So exhaling and saying the life we had is over. What life do we want to build with my current salary, with the settlement with our house or selling the house? Whatever.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're solving for peace.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Build something new and solve for peace. Don't solve for trying to keep everything exactly the same same as it was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cuz they know it's not the same.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's not the same.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cuz it's not the same.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal. You definitely want an expert, someone who really does it, not just got their license. Your aunt Sally's never sold a house, but she got a license. I don't want her in my corner. I want an expert in my corner. The Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a high octane, high protein top agent in your area that you can trust to help you make your home a blessing, not a burden. To find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free, go to ramseysolutions.com agent or just click the description in the show notes. Shannon's in Iowa. Hi Shannon, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave and John. Thank you so much for taking my call today. It's truly an honor to talk to both of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey. I am actually hoping that you guys could provide a little bit of reassurance and maybe just be that that good sounding board for my husband and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Just to give you some context, we are currently in baby Step 6 thanks to your your plans and practices so than everything you do. But I wanted to kind of get your guys Opinion. So my husband has currently been on a night shift for about 10 years now, and he currently brings home about 70% of our $220,000 income each year. The issue that we're running into is he is finally hitting his breaking point. He's busted his back for the last 10 years. He's just getting burnt out. We have four small kids at home. Home. And he just, you know, they're getting.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he make if he goes today shift?

[Caller]

I'm sorry, what does he make?

[Dave Ramsey]

He makes 150 now. What's he make if he goes to day shift?

[Caller]

So it'd be dramatically cut. So we're looking at almost 50% in decrease. So it'd be about $80,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you make. And you make 70.

[Caller]

Yep, yep. Around there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you would live on 150 instead of 220 and you're in baby step six.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your house payment?

[Caller]

It is $2,100.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I don't know why you couldn't do that in Iowa.

[Caller]

Exactly. So just to give some context, I ran some. Some numbers. And that is, you know, in the, in the. Every dollar. That's still putting away $1,400 for extra payment because we're aggressively trying to get out of baby step.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What do you owe on your home?

[Caller]

You know, 292. And it's valued at about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gonna be. Gonna be a while. Gonna be a while. Yeah. All right.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay.

[Caller]

So how old are you guys? So My husband is 38. I'm 35. And then that is. We are very blessed with our employer that we do get end of year profit sharing. So last year alone, it was about 25,000, which we.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was not in the 220 gave me.

[Caller]

That is not. No.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's not your real income. Your real income is 250.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. So, Shannon, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I would. I would go to day shifts as soon as I could if I were you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Under one big condition.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Both of us look at the every dollar budget and agree. We're going to live on that.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you can't. You can't like. Oh, surprise. No, we're not surprised. We're like grown ups. We're looking at the numbers. We are willing to live on this number instead of that number.

[Caller]

Yep. And we're. That's our. That's our Sunday tradition. We look at our every dollar budget every Sunday and we are so in sync. And I Think.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he. What's he do for a living?

[Caller]

He is in the manufacturing world. So. So he's in a factory, a hot factory.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so he's on the line. He's working on the line.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Very aggressive. But he is. He is a provider. That's the. That's what he knows to do. So he's. I think he's just nervous, and I show him the numbers, but he doesn't believe me. So I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna call Dave and John.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, this one's not about numbers.

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This is about worth and purpose.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And putting away the spreadsheets and looking across the table and holding both of his hands and looking him in the eye and saying, honey, I'm so proud of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

We did it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We did it.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're here. You.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You gave up, literally. He's going to die younger. For that decade, he worked nights. You gave up years off your life so that we could breathe.

[Dave Ramsey]

And now it's time to breathe.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're a good man. He needs that more than he needs a spreadsheet from you right now.

[Caller]

Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, he needs that. He needs that. And by the way, he put in his 10 years. He's going to go back to day shift for about seven or eight months, and someone's going to take him for management. He's going to double the salary right back. He's putting his time right. He's grounded out if he wants it. He may not want that.

[Caller]

No. He said he's like, I just want to be home with my babies. I want to be able to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can do that and be a management McDouble.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You can do both.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You can both can do both.

[Dave Ramsey]

So during the same day hours that you'd be on the line. Day hours. So there's no shame in that. So here's. Yeah, John's right. This is not about numbers. And here's the transition. When you're in baby steps one through three, you're intense, and you work nights and overtime and you live on beans and rice until you get out of debt. When you're in 4, 5, and 6, where you're saving for retirement, kids, college, and you're paying off your house, you move from intense to intentional. And that's all I'm doing. I'm agreeing with. With you to move to intentional. Intentional says you can live on 70 grand less. Slows down the speed at which we pay off the house. Whoop de dop, Dee. You're gonna get There.

[Caller]

Yep. And that's what I'm. And that's what I'm telling them. I'm like, we can do it.

I think it's a security place.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want him to grow up enough to look at the numbers and like a grown up and go, oh, the math does work. Not. My mommy told me it was okay if I come home.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But it's different than his mommy. It's his wife saying, no, I want you to come home.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's a totally different.

[Caller]

And I think it's just getting past that provider where he's sitting at for 38 and his 401k.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's not that.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not that. It's not that. Touchdown.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's not about money. It's not about money. You did it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You scored that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We did it. We did it. Yeah, yeah, we did it.

[Dave Ramsey]

We got there. We're scored. And look at the numbers, buddy. Listen, you can, you know, you did it. We together did it. You sacrificed to do it. Look at the numbers. Be a grownup, go, oh, the numbers say I'm okay. That's what the numbers say. My wife says it's okay. But the numbers also, as a grown man, I can look at the numbers and say. The numbers say it's okay. It's not rocket surgery.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No. And also, after a decade, if you're a night shift guy, that becomes who you are. It becomes your identity, becomes your gang. And so he's going to have to shift his. His identity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm now a guy who works his butt off during the day and then go home and I'm a present, dad.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I get to, you know, tickle fight in the floor. Hello.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hello. Thank you. Thank you, Lord. It's a good thing. Yeah, man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Y' all worked real hard for this moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Definitely needs to do it as soon as possible. But you got to believe it. With the numbers and with the people that love you, speaking into your life and speaking. Blessings over you. And that's what John's talking about. So that's the way you do it. Joe's with us. Joe's in Detroit. Hi, Joe. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. Hi, guys. I really appreciate your phone call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

I have a question about my mortgage. So I own about 55,000 on my mortgage right now, and I have about 70,000 in a high yield fund right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Pay it off today.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You have a paid for house, homie.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's so fun.

[Caller]

See, that's what I'm okay, so my financial advisor. So I'm making about 5.4% on my, my fund right now. And my mortgage interest rate is only like three and a quarter.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, you need a new financial advisor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your financial advisor is a moron.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because he's making 3% on the spread too.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's not making anything. Nobody's making anything. This is 5%. Hey, dude, look. Look at this. $55,000 times 2% is $1,000. Whoopty Dumpty. You can't buy a biscuit with this guy's advice.

[Caller]

Well, yeah, yeah. For the last like four or five months, I've been putting an extra thousand dollars on my mortgage.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Today.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you doing? Listen, if your house was paid for, would you go get a mortgage at 3% to invest it at 5? I hope not.

[Caller]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pay it off today. Fire your guy, man. Get you a guy that's got a brain.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Andrew, if you hate it, if you wake up two months from now and.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'Re like, ramsey nuts.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I hate not anybody on my house.

[Dave Ramsey]

I hate my mortgage. I hate. I. I miss my mortgage.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You can go down to a local bank, take out another one. They'll. They'll hook you up.

[Dave Ramsey]

They'll fix you up. 30 years of doing this, I've never had anybody call me and go, dave Ramsey, I hate you. Cuz when I paid off my mortgage, I just. I was miserable.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I wanted one so bad.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wanted a mortgage so bad. Your advice is so horrible, I went, got another one. I've never had that one time. I've had people pissed at me for almost everything, but not that one. Sa.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th, and early bird prices start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your Tickets today at RamseySolutions.com Events.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Jennifer's with us. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Welcome. How much debt have you paid?

[Caller]

205,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesome. Where are you from?

[Caller]

From Milford, Connecticut.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. And how long did it take you? All right. Yeah. How long take you to pay off $205,000.

[Caller]

When I got focused, it was five years and six months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Five years. Very cool. That's amazing. And what was your range of income during that five years?

[Caller]

Started out around 78 and ended around run 165.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I work in the aerospace industry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing what?

[Caller]

So I'm in the business management side.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

You know, basically.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you manage rocket scientists? Yeah. Okay, that's good. It's fun.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is that stressful? Somebody's like, it would be tough.

[Dave Ramsey]

Somebody's like brain surgeons.

[Caller]

Yeah, it is. I have to hold people accountable.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Who. Who know way too much.

[Caller]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And if you know how to build a rocket, I assume you just assume you know how to do everything else on the planet also, right?

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what kind of Debt was the 205?

[Caller]

A little under 15,000 for student loans and the rest was my mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're a weirdo. A paid off house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Boom.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's this house worth, girl?

[Caller]

Right now it's worth about 415.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. And how much in your nest egg in your retirement?

[Caller]

Just shy of 300,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, heading towards millionaire. Almost baby steps. Millionaire. So how old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 45.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, way to go, kiddo. Congrats. Excellent. You rocked it. Very, very cool. All right, tell me the story. Because you're all put together, you hang out with rocket scientists, but you decide we're going to go game on five years. We're knocking out mortgage and everything. How did you get connected to Ramsey? Tell me how this all worked out.

[Caller]

So I got connected the first time in about 2005. That's when I gave my life to. To the Lord and heard about it through my church.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

And I gave my life to the Lord and immediately went into like a job season.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

Like every time you think it can't get worse, it got worse.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my God.

[Caller]

And you know, there wasn't any irresponsibility or sin or anything like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was just life happening, tragedy after tragedy.

[Caller]

Yeah, it. It was really intense. And my pastors gifted me a scholarship to go through fpu.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow.

[Caller]

But I literally had nothing to work with, so it was like information. And I'm a total nerd. So it was always there, but I literally had nothing to work with. And then basically in 2015, I was starting to kind of dig back out of the hole by the grace of God. And I got this job offer to move from Kansas City to Connecticut. And I'm like, heck, yeah, I'm going to move. Make the move. This is a great opportunity. So when I got to Connecticut and I had a real income, which was fabulous, I started remembering, hey, Fpu, I've got to get back with that. So I went through a course again and then I started building an estate. Because when I went through this season, I lost everything, literally. Negative net worth. I should have been on the upward trajectory of life. I'm a single woman by design. You know, I don't have children. I don't ever plan on getting married. And so when you're by yourself and you lose everything, it's very, it can be very burdensome.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's an understatement. How about terror?

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's a scary place to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, terrorizing.

[Caller]

Yeah, it was.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no safety net, there's no support mechanism.

[Caller]

I mean, I was staring at homelessness in the face. It was very real. So when I started rebuilding, my instinct was to save everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

And that's a good instinct. I, I bought a house. The Lord literally tucked it away from me. It's a, it's a beautiful original Victorian. It's like a life size dollhouse. And I knew I had about a five year window before I needed to do some major repairs, is an upkeep. And I was saving away, had a nice big fat nest egg for that and was continuing to just pay minimums. And then I was entering into my. Just before my 40th birthday and the Lord just really convicted me and he's like, you've got money in your account to get rid of those student loans today. I'm like, okay. So for me, that was a huge leap of faith because when you have nothing and then all of a sudden you have something, giving it away feels like the rug's gonna get pulled out again. But I trusted him and I did it. And then I started, you know, saving again. It just astounded me how quickly it came back. Then I was, you know, working on the different repairs for the house, saving up that fund, and got to last summer and construction prices were just through the roof. They were ridiculous. Wanting 60, $70,000 to rebuild a porch or $100,000 for 18 windows. It was ridiculous. I felt like I wasn't making progress. So I, I asked the Lord, I'm like, what do I do? Like, I've got all this money saved. And he said, pay off the house in one year. And my jaw dropped on the floor because at that time my mortgage balance was about 145,000. I pulled 72,000 out of my nest egg, slapped it on the balance, and then every penny that was going to my floating fund, I, or I'm sorry, my sinking fund, I put it on. I put it on the mortgage and it was gone in nine months.

[Dave Ramsey]

How's it feel?

[Caller]

Surreal. Amazing. Like I live on $600 a month. It's stupid. It's ridiculous. And I just rebuilt my porch, which was a huge project.

[Dave Ramsey]

And pay cash for that.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, paid cash for that. I'm getting ready to do, you know, the siding, the windows. I got a contractor that's so reasonable.

[Dave Ramsey]

And when you're standing there with cash and you don't have to do anything, they. Their reasonableness changes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They can tell. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What an adventure, dude.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have developed through this journey a backbone of steel. I mean, we can just feel the strength emanating off you not only from your faith, but just the journey has toughened you. And so there's nothing comes at you. You're ready?

[Caller]

I'm ready. Yeah, there's.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's pretty cool.

[Caller]

Yeah, there's nothing, there's nothing that can really.

[Dave Ramsey]

We get these calls about once every two weeks with someone who's on the edge of homelessness and hopelessness. Talk to them for a second.

[Caller]

I was there. I'll never forget the day, sitting on the steps of my house going, what's the safest parking lot that I could sleep in? My first home was taken when all of the. The big three mortgage companies were erroneously foreclosing. They erroneously foreclosed on my house. And I just had major surgery and I had 10 days. It just big orange sticker on my house. You don't own this anymore. And I didn't even know that they were taking my house. I was current.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

But it was done. And the only thing that I knew was I was about a two year old Christian. Christian. I knew that my, you know, what I learned is that, you know, the Lord is my provider. He can bring me through. And my precious pastors told me, you will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. This is not the end of the story. And I hung on to that. I genuinely did every day.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a word right there. And it came true too.

[Caller]

Yeah, it really did.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we know that was the word.

[Caller]

Yeah. So I just. One little miracle at a time. Things came together. I was not homeless. I always had somewhere safe to sleep. And it was a completely depend on.

[Dave Ramsey]

The savings account, depend on me, pay off the student loans, don't Depend on the savings account, pay off the house. Depend on me. Depend on me. Depend on me. You got to. Steady message. Yeah. For. That's a decade, isn't it?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or more. It's 15 years.

[Caller]

Well, yeah. Yeah. 15 years. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Wow.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

What a walk.

[Caller]

Yeah. And. And during it, I mean, it. The journey, just from, you know, five, six years ago, I had major surgery on my back. You know, 27 staples up my low back and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I shouldn't have said backbone of steel, should I?

[Caller]

No, I literally, like, literally.

[Dave Ramsey]

Be careful with that. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Proud of you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Way to go crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. You are Wonder Woman, for sure. I'm so proud of you.

[Caller]

Thanks.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Jennifer from Milford, Connecticut, like no other 205,000 paid off, housing everything. In five years, making 78 to 165. From homeless to there. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Caller]

3, 2, and 1. I am debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Wow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ah, man, I'm getting soft in my old age, Dave. These keep getting.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've been soft in my old age. I cried an Applebee's commercial. Our scripture of the day, Colossians 4, 6. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt so that you may know how to answer everyone. Thomas Sowell said, we all enter the world knowing nothing, but by the time we're teenagers, we. We know it all. Sometimes it takes decades later before we know enough to realize how little we know. Chris is in Memphis. Hey, Chris. How are you?

[Caller]

I am doing good, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[Caller]

My wife and I are in baby step six, and I'm transitioning from intensity to intentionality.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

And now I want to sign up for a country club membership at the club where I grew up playing golf with my dad and my brother every week. Because I want to give that same experience to my son, who's four and a half right now. And the only thing holding me back is I think, would they say, go do it, or would he say it was stupid? And then I thought, well, I can just call him and ask him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

When has Dave Ramsey ever called anybody's. Never mind.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, Chris, how much is the due are the initiation and how much of the dues?

[Caller]

The initiation is 5K. The dues are 550amonth plus $85 for food and beds.

[Dave Ramsey]

$5,000 to.

[Caller]

For the initiation?

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's all? Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, I thought that was a whole bunch of money. I was gonna say get a country club.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's Plenty of country clubs and golf clubs that are half a million 250,000. Plenty of angry.

[Caller]

We got the lowest cost of living around.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good. Okay, so five bucks and 500 bucks a month. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

About 120,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're obviously putting 15% away for retirement. And you're working on a budget with your wife, and you're in agreement.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is her opinion of this purchase?

[Caller]

I told her, hey, I want to sign up at this country club. What do you think? And instead of asking me any questions, she just said, yeah, if you want to, go ahead and do it. I think over the last 11 years of our marriage, I think I've just built up a level of trust with her and handling our finances that she. She didn't even ask.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she didn't even ask how much it was like I did.

[Caller]

No, but I went ahead and told her anyway. But she. She greenlit it before I told her.

[Dave Ramsey]

She needs to be careful. It could have been a half a million. Okay. But you wouldn't have brought it to her because you're trustworthy. Okay. Anyway, well, I've got wife agreement. I have money. It's within the budget. It's something you desire to do. I think people at your stage buy $5,000 couches or $15,000 cars or go on $5,000 cruises or $10,000 cruises. Don't they? And that fits in our plan. That's part of being intentional. In baby steps four through six while you're hitting your other golf, you just have. You save the money to do that and you, you know, you're pulling 550amonth out, including your F and B. But it checks all the boxes. I would do it. Okay, cool. No, it's not stupid. What you're doing is you're thinking through. Does this affect my life? Do I. Does it prevent me from hitting other goals that are more important than this goal? The answer is no, because it's a small amount of money in ratio to your income in your situation. Does that make sense?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. It's just when I say it out loud to people and I'm thinking about doing it, all I can hear myself saying is, I want to buy a boat. You know, so it just sounds silly when I say it out loud because, you know, I just went through all the other baby steps and we were super intense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you were intense. You live like no one else, so later you can live and give like no one else. Yeah, that's why you did that. And so that's moving from intense to intentional. You had the right verbiage when you started the call. I. It just, it feels weird because you sacrifice to get here and then the first time you actually draw back and enjoy a little of it, or the first time you draw back and have a sizable generosity move, like if you gave away $5,000, you'll have that same emotion. Like it kind of feels weird, like, am I going to be okay if I do this? That kind of emotion. And that's the. Because it's a muscle you've not been used to using. You've been using the frugality muscle only, not the generosity or enjoyment muscle. And it's new and it takes a little time to get there. I think you do it though. Kate's in California. How you, Kate? What's up?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

So my question is regarding. Well, basically it boils down to at what point do my husband and I call it quits on a business venture?

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you been doing it?

[Caller]

About five or six years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Is that your full time gig?

[Caller]

No. So let me give you a little backstory. My husband is a creator. He's a writer and a comic book artist. And he's been working on some intellectual properties that he wants to either self publish or sell to like a large company and sort of break his way into the entertainment industry. Basically. When he first started doing this, I told him that I would not feel comfortable paying for this or funding it with our household income. I said, I'll support you in doing this and trying this, but you're going to have to go do a side gig or something to fund it. He's been paying artists to create these artworks for him, basically. So it's been about five years of his. Him doing gig work, like working, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's invested a ton in it and has made no money.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So this is not a business, this is a hobby. Businesses have a profit. Businesses have profit.

[Caller]

Right. And that's kind of my attitude about.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not an attitude, that's a fact.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's a fact.

[Caller]

Yeah. Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

His hobby is imagining a thing and then hiring an artist to make that thing come alive.

[Dave Ramsey]

But he's made no money with it.

[Caller]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And he's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And he's just crossed a threshold where somebody can sneeze and a computer can just do it now for you.

[Caller]

Right. It's. I mean, there's a lot of things about it that are, that are Becoming frustrating to me, like. But. Well, it's just we have four kids. I'm. I'm the primary breadwinner in our household. He, he.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. It's not becoming frustra. He is becoming frustrating. He's been frustrating a long time. And you're entering into resentment.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you need to put that conversation on the table. Clear as kind. The best way you can love him right now is to put all that on the table.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because he's choosing. He is choosing a hobby and part time gigs over five years to. Over his wife and kids and their stability. It's not even like he's an actor. And he keeps getting gigs and he's getting more and he's pushing it and he's going, that's not even happening here.

[Dave Ramsey]

This has been 100 outlay, no income.

[Dr. John Deloney]

None.

[Caller]

Right. And it's. Yeah. And he's, you know. But I have to say I do. I'm a creative person myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so this has nothing to do with being a creative. It has to do with being a responsible adult. Creatives can be responsible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dave and I are both creatives. But when you make humans, you also are creative when you're a parent and that's where the bulk of your energy goes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get to take care of your family. I get to be creative only after my wife and kids have been served or I get to be creative in a way that makes a profit so that my wife and kids are served. Like writing a best selling book. That would be a creative thing. But the book sold a million copies. Hello. So there's that. That's the thing you got or.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I do creative stuff. I play music.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we can't just. You are trying to be sweet to his dreamer self. But here's the thing. We love people who dream. We don't love people who live in them. You need to do something with the dream. Leave the cave, kill something and drag it home. So my daughters were teenagers. If they came in and said, daddy, he's the nicest guy, he's a dreamer. I'm thinking, oh God, they're going to live in my basement. Okay, so you don't want to live people that are living their dreams. We want people who execute out of the dream and turn it into a vision, a goal, a strategy, an implementation that makes money. We have to feed our family. So yeah. You guys got some marriage work to do. Yes. He needs to close the hobby down because frustrating his wife to the point she's calling us. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.