Money Stress Isn’t Always About Money

Summary

Episode Summary: "Money Stress Isn’t Always About Money" – The Ramsey Show

Introduction

In this enlightening episode of The Ramsey Show, host Rachel Cruz and guest expert Dr. John DeLoney delve into the multifaceted nature of financial stress. Contrary to common belief, financial stress isn't solely rooted in monetary woes but often interwoven with personal relationships, life transitions, and emotional challenges. Through real-life caller scenarios, Rachel and John provide actionable advice to navigate these complex situations.

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1. Navigating College Choices Amid Family Conflict

Caller: Torin from Boston
Timestamp: [01:00] – [05:00]

Issue: Torin, an 18-year-old high school senior, seeks guidance on convincing his parents to support his decision to attend a community college followed by a state university transfer. His parents prefer he attend a private university and participate in college sports, dismissing concerns about accruing debt.

Discussion: Dr. DeLoney emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and maintaining respect. He advises Torin to apologize for any rudeness during the conflict and assertively communicate his financial strategy without succumbing to parental pressure.

Notable Quote: Dr. John DeLoney [04:22]:
“Go tell your parents you're sorry. Go be a respectful 18-year-old son and say, hey, I got fired up and I acted like a kid and I'm sorry. I do not want to go into debt for college.”

Conclusion:
Torin is encouraged to uphold his financial independence while respectfully addressing his parents' expectations, highlighting the balance between personal financial responsibility and familial relationships.

---

2. Addressing Financial Imbalance in Relationships

Caller: Chris from Dallas, Texas
Timestamp: [10:09] – [19:40]

Issue: Chris, 26, discusses the strain caused by his girlfriend, who recently moved in but hasn't significantly contributed financially. She is pursuing a certification to become a pharmacy technician but lacks motivation, leading to feelings of being overburdened.

Discussion: The experts explore the dynamics of moving in together without established financial contributions. Dr. DeLoney questions the sustainability of the relationship if financial goals and work ethics are misaligned. Rachel underscores the importance of maintaining respect and setting clear financial boundaries.

Notable Quote: Dr. John DeLoney [12:03]:
“This is an adult relationship that's...not as easy as... it has to be this prestigious education. If you don't get this, it's gonna look bad on resumes. You're never gonna get a job, you're gonna be homeless and you're gonna die.”

Conclusion:
Chris is advised to evaluate the long-term compatibility regarding financial habits and life goals, even if it means making tough decisions for personal and financial well-being.

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3. Overcoming Jealousy Over Others' Incomes

Caller: Justin from Virginia
Timestamp: [33:07] – [39:10]

Issue: Justin struggles with jealousy towards his siblings and in-laws who earn significantly more. Despite having a stable, debt-free household income, he feels inadequate and frustrated by others' financial success.

Discussion: Rachel and Dr. DeLoney discuss the psychological aspects of financial jealousy, emphasizing self-awareness and contentment. They suggest celebrating others' successes and focusing on personal financial goals to mitigate feelings of envy.

Notable Quote: Dr. John DeLoney [35:06]:
“There’s a dollar amount that you earn every year is attached to how much you’re worth. Somebody told you that somewhere.”

Conclusion:
Justin is encouraged to shift his focus inward, fostering gratitude for his own financial stability and redefining self-worth beyond income comparisons.

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4. Managing High Income with Substantial Debt

Caller: Dan from Eugene, Oregon
Timestamp: [39:16] – [51:56]

Issue: Dan, 48, despite earning a significant income ($275k-$300k annually), is overwhelmed by debt including student loans, mortgages, and car leases, causing him to live paycheck to paycheck.

Discussion: Rachel and Dr. DeLoney identify lifestyle creep and poor money management as the core issues. They advocate for a stringent budget, debt elimination strategies, and lifestyle adjustments to regain financial control.

Notable Quote: Rachel Cruz [48:33]:
“We could clean up the HELOC in two to three months. You could clean up all the credit card debt in two to three months. I mean, you can make a lot of really big progress.”

Conclusion:
Dan is advised to implement disciplined budgeting and debt repayment plans, leveraging his high income to overcome financial hurdles and achieve lasting stability.

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5. Resolving Family Financial Conflicts Over Loans

Caller: Scott from Pittsburgh
Timestamp: [55:53] – [71:11]

Issue: Scott loaned $80,000 to his cousin for a house-flipping business, including $45,000 in interest, which remains unpaid. His cousin's deteriorating business and personal life have led to strained family relations.

Discussion: The experts discuss the pitfalls of lending money to family members, highlighting emotional repercussions and the erosion of relationships. They recommend letting go, forgiving the debt, and focusing on personal financial peace.

Notable Quote: Dr. John DeLoney [57:34]:
“Walk away. Walk away. And I think the making peace is making peace with yourself, because you knew this was a real possibility before you did this.”

Conclusion:
Scott is encouraged to prioritize his family's financial well-being over unresolved debts, emphasizing the importance of emotional peace over financial recovery in strained relationships.

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6. Financial Planning Amid Terminal Illness

Caller: Elizabeth from Spokane, Washington
Timestamp: [71:11] – [84:22]

Issue: Elizabeth's husband has been diagnosed with irreparable liver damage, leaving them with limited time. They face significant financial challenges, including necessary home repairs and managing household responsibilities with his declining health.

Discussion: Rachel and Dr. DeLoney empathize with Elizabeth's plight, guiding her to prioritize essential expenses, establish a budget, and consider the feasibility of maintaining their home. They stress the importance of not making hasty financial decisions during such emotionally charged times.

Notable Quote: Dr. John DeLoney [80:12]:
“This is the stop. Right? And so you have been working with somebody for a long time. Everything in this conversation has changed now.”

Conclusion:
Elizabeth is advised to focus on immediate financial needs, establish a clear budget, and avoid major financial decisions until a stable period is achieved, ensuring that essential needs are met during this challenging time.

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7. Reevaluating Whole Life Insurance Policies

Caller: Jessica from Albany, New York
Timestamp: [65:50] – [71:25]

Issue: Jessica holds a whole life insurance policy with a cash value of $8,000 and is contemplating switching to a term life policy. She is uncertain about the tax implications and the financial benefits of canceling her current policy.

Discussion: Rachel recommends canceling the whole life policy due to its low return and suggesting obtaining a term life policy to provide adequate coverage without unnecessary financial drain. She emphasizes the importance of segregating insurance and investment strategies for optimal financial health.

Notable Quote: Rachel Cruz [67:40]:
“You have to have term, because I do want you to have life insurance. You guys have two little kids, so I would still have life insurance.”

Conclusion:
Jessica is guided to transition to a term life policy, ensuring sufficient life insurance coverage while eliminating the poor-performing whole life investment component, thereby enhancing her overall financial strategy.

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Conclusion

In "Money Stress Isn’t Always About Money," Rachel Cruz and Dr. John DeLoney expertly navigate a spectrum of financial challenges intertwined with personal and relational dynamics. From college debts and familial loans to managing high incomes and facing terminal illness, the episode underscores the importance of strategic budgeting, setting clear boundaries, and prioritizing emotional well-being alongside financial stability. Listeners are empowered with practical advice and relatable insights to transform their financial stress into actionable solutions.

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Key Takeaways

• Effective Communication: Addressing financial disagreements requires respectful dialogue and setting clear boundaries.

• Budgeting Discipline: Comprehensive budgeting is crucial in managing high incomes and substantial debts to prevent living paycheck to paycheck.

• Personal Boundaries: Avoid lending large sums to family to preserve personal relationships and financial peace.

• Prioritizing Needs: In crises, focus on essential expenses and refrain from making impulsive financial decisions.

• Insurance Strategies: Opt for term life insurance over whole life policies to ensure adequate coverage without financial inefficiency.

By embracing these principles, individuals can mitigate financial stressors and build a secure, prosperous future.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys, this is Dave Ramsey from the Ramsey show podcast. If you're sick of money, stress and tired of living paycheck to paycheck, we're here to help. Check out our latest episode, streaming now on Amazon Music, brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Rachel Cruz]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, Dr. John DeLoney. And we are answering your questions about life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. All right, we're gonna go to the phones and. Is it Torin from Boston? Hey, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, guys. Thank you guys for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. Is it Torin? Did I get that right?

[Caller]

Yep, that's perfect.

[Rachel Cruz]

Awesome. How so?

[Caller]

I'm an 18 year old and I'm a senior in high school this year and I wanted pretty much advice on what's tell my parents about college. I've been watching you guys for a while now and I know the biggest thing was, you know, don't go into debt, don't take out loans. If you can try and cash flow. It's so I figured I would want to go to a cheaper school. I was in Massachusetts, so it's a community college is free, but I figured I would go there and I could transfer to a state school where it's 100% acceptance rate after the community college I want to go to. And my parents were very against this idea. They wanted me to go play a sport in college and go to a private university. They told me that like debt doesn't matter. And yeah, I just wanted to make sure I was making the right decision because they don't agree with it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are they paying for it?

[Caller]

I went to community college. No, they're not paying for it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, they don't get a vote.

[Caller]

Then I brought that up, but they said they're gonna be kicking me out. Don't pay for housing. They also like take the car and my phone away.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, if they want to throw a grown up temper tantrum, that's like the. That's like the most babiest thing I've ever like. They wait.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I want to know more why that's so. That's so. That's so. That feels very extreme. Like it's one thing if your parents kind of like turn their Nose up at community college because they're very educated. New England. It's like, oh my gosh, can't believe you're gonna go to community college. But to kick you out and take your car and your phone, I mean, that's a. Or if they said, is there a religious element to this? Like a, like to go to a Catholic school?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Or like any level of like a religion conviction there?

[Caller]

No, I don't really understand why. They just said it would look bad on resumes. And I think I'm making the wrong decision. They said I was being pretty rude about it. So I think that's why.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, if I have no problem with the parents saying, hey, as for me and my house, you're going to this school and we're paying for it. And if you want to go somewhere else, you're on your own. I have no problem with that at all. That happens all the time. And if they say, hey, in this house, we go to Harvard. And so we've created this fund and you're going to Harvard if you get in, I have no problem with that. If they tell you you will not go to that school that you can afford, which is free, you will go take out loans and put yourself behind for the next 15 years of your life or 20 years of your life, depending on what private school you go to. And if you don't do that, we're going to take your cell phone, we're going to take our ball, and we're going to go home. We're not playing with you anymore. That just sounds like real childish, immature behavior. Because, because what they're doing is they're, they're asking you to have all the skin in the game and they're just going to sit on the sidelines and holler at you.

[Caller]

I, I thought the same thing. I don't, I don't really know what their, their plan was for it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Is this out of character for them? Like, were you shocked by this or is this like. Yeah, yeah. I could see mom and dad doing this.

[Caller]

I already knew that they didn't want me living there after I was 18. They said they would help me out a little bit before. It was definitely out of character for them to like, to. Once they kind of like said, like, my mom said, I keep the car. My dad was very against keeping the car after that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But were you being a jerk, dude? We being an 18 year old just like a turd, or you being kind and thoughtful?

[Caller]

I will admit for like the first, like, 30 minutes talk about. I was very kind and peaceful and then I started to. I was, I was not as nice I should have been to them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. I spent my whole career working with 18 year olds. Go tell your parents you're sorry.

[Caller]

All right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Go be respectful 18 year old son and say, hey, I got fired up and I acted like a kid and I'm sorry. I do not want to go into debt for college. And I respect your, I respect. You want your kids, you want to be able to tell your friends that your kid graduated from this college. And I get that you don't, you don't like this.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'll say that that's disrespectful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. That was me just having a little bit, a little bit of a mommy dick. But like, like she wants to be able to go to bridge club and tell like, well, my kid is Rachel. We used to call it, we used to call it the, we used to call it the soccer mom scholarship. I worked at one university. We would lose students. We would give somebody a half scholarship or. I'm sorry, our, the tuition was. I'm making up a number. 20 grand.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And they would go to another school that cost 50 grand, but they got a $1,000 JV soccer scholarship and we would lose them. Which is a. Right, it's a, it's, it's a $30,000 a year move. 120, 000 move to play JV soccer so that, so that parents can be like, oh, my kid's playing on a soccer scholarship.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It costs them money like six figures. Right?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's a thousand dollars.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I would tell your parents you're sorry and then you have to make an 18 year old decision.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And Torn, let me say this too, okay. And John's the education nerd. He loves education. So he can maybe back me up on this. Just, just for perspective. So you're in Boston and I, we have friends that came from that area. And the way, even the, the Northeast, I would say even specifically the way they view education, there is a, there is a high premium, high regard. Like it is, it is everything when we come to the South. It's important.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Say it, Rachel.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's important. But it's not life. Like, like there's a belief of like you can scratch and claw and start a business and be as successful as the guy that has the college degree or that, you know, I mean whether you go to college or not, there's kind of a micro, like just kind of get in there. And you figure it out and you can still be successful. But it doesn't have this air about it, which I'm not saying all New England's have that. But I, but I do think as an 18 year old that's growing up in that environment, I mean you're in Boston, like it's. So just know there's a world outside of that. Not that we have it right necessarily. I'm not saying that but, but you can be successful. You can meet people and network outside of a college. Like there are ways to live life. That is not one path of just. It has to be this prestigious education. If you don't get this, it's gonna look bad on resumes. You're never gonna get a job, you're gonna be homeless and you're gonna die. Like that's not the, that's not the route. That's not right. So just know there is, there is more to life outside of possibly the bubble in which education is talked about in your family and for whatever it's worth, but John loves it so just maybe he'll. I've.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've got a. I've got a. I think one of the most mission minded institutions in the United States is. Can be found inside of community colleges. And for whatever it's worth, my mom, Dr. DeLoney, the first Dr. DeLoney was my mother who graduated in her 50s with her PhD, started at a community college as a tenured full professor. Right. So. So you can, here's what you can do with a community college education. Anything you want to.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Period. Maybe you have to work harder to get job number one. Fine. But by the way, you're going to transfer out, right? You'll go to a state school or to a private. Wherever you end up on a transfer out.

[Caller]

Yeah, there's a. Yeah, there's a program called mass transfer and it guarantees acceptance as well as some other scholarships as long as you maintain a certain grade point average in community college.

[Rachel Cruz]

Man, that's good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're right on.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know and for fun to torn like just run some numbers on the ROI of the private college that you'd go into debt for average interest rate on a student loan, how long that would probably take you to pay off when you, if you got out of school with an average, maybe an above our average salary, let's say run those numbers out having to repay that starting in a financial hole significantly six figures probably for this school versus getting through it debt free. Doing the free community college, working, saving up, graduating from state school Starting off and starting to invest the moment you get your first paycheck because you're going to have money and not being a hole financially from the math perspective, who comes out ahead.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, yeah. Especially, especially getting started. All right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And for everybody listening, I'm proud of you for think outside the box, but be nice to your parents.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Be respectful. Treat your parents with dignity and for everybody. I love private schools. I've worked at multiple private schools. I would love for my kids like, I love private schools. I just don't like parents lobbing grenades at their kids and saying, hey, to prop us up. You go do this thing that's Gonna cost you 10, 20 years of your life for making us feel good. I don't like that.

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[Rachel Cruz]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're going to Chris in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Chris, welcome to the.

[Caller]

Hey, how are you guys?

[Rachel Cruz]

We're doing great. How can we help?

[Caller]

So my girlfriend of just over a year now moved in about five months ago from her grandmother's who has, you know, supported her for context. I'm 26 and she's about to be 25. I do have a career at the moment and currently pay all the bills. And it's kind of become a weight on me that she isn't really contributing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because she doesn't have a job.

[Caller]

Well, she works part time. Back in February, she started a certification course to be A pharm tech.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

And since then, she discovered that certification alone doesn't get her very much in the job market. So she's working on the test, but it's, you know, kind of slow going.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So. What did she say when you sat down and talked to her about this?

[Caller]

She just. She just isn't motivated. I mean, it's not something that she feels that she needs to do or has to do, and I'm having trouble with that.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's fair. So, yeah, there's another adult relationship that's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Both of you are correct. Right now, she doesn't have to do anything because she gets to play house with you and you pay all the bills. She gets to live an imaginary life together.

[Caller]

You know, we jumped the gun on that. I do agree. But the situation did also call for it. Her grandmother had to downsize, and she's on Social Security, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I mean, it is what it is myself, but. No, no, I mean, I'm just saying. I'm saying I'm not. I'm not trying to be judgy. I'm just saying she's got a kush situation, and so she's right to say I don't have to, because she doesn't. You're still. You're not a kid.

[Caller]

I lived with my mother a couple years ago, but I decided I wanted more for myself.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

So, Chris, does this change from a relationship standpoint? Yeah, and this is. I mean, call me old school. This is where the complication happens. When you act like you're married and you're not. Right. And you're moving in together. Right. And all of it, like, this is what ends up happening. That it's not as easy as, like, oh, I found this kind of thing about, yeah, my girlfriend. This may be a deal breaker, but I need to figure it out on a couple more hangouts. And now. Now I'm gonna call it quits now. It's much harder to call it quits when she's. When she's living there. Right. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

This is part of that complication. So. So does it. Does it give you as the. As the kids would call it, a beige flag or a red flag when it comes to, like, her work ethic and who she is. Like, are you starting to see other parts of her that concern you for a long term relationship?

[Caller]

The thing is, I see myself in her from a few years ago. So I was, you know, in the same situation with my mom, but I had that realization. Unfortunately, I don't know how to Come how to help her come to that point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it's two. Two old married people will tell you you can't.

[Rachel Cruz]

That was thousands of dollars of therapy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We just give it to you for free. The earlier and quicker you can realize you can't make somebody that you love and care about come to any sort of realization.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you can't think, oh, if I can just have the right phrase, the light bulb will come on. If I could just have that right. That right. Sit down. She'll see it if I just say it the right way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or I want something. I wanted something more for my life, and now look at me. That's not how most of the world works. Most people want to take the easiest path possible. And she has that with you.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But my guess is that beyond the money part, like, going back to what Rachel saying, this is an integrity issue. This is a character issue. This is like, oh, my gosh, this is going to show up with kids. This is going to show up with when one.

[Rachel Cruz]

When my mom holidays.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. It's always going to be a thing that she didn't want to do it. She's just not going to. And we're seeing that in real time. She doesn't want more for her life. And that's hard to say, Chris.

[Rachel Cruz]

We're not talking about that. We're saying, oh, my gosh, she has to, like, go be this, like, boss babe and go make, you know, six figures. No, no, no. She just needs pay bills.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, even.

[Rachel Cruz]

Even deeper than that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Y'all had an agreement that, like, forget the working part. Like, y'all made an agreement.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's who we're gonna. We're gonna move in together, and here's who we're gonna be. And five or six months in, she's like, yeah, I'm not doing that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Were the. Were the expectations, Chris, pretty clear moving in or if she was on the phone, would she say, no, that's not what we talked about. What would she say?

[Caller]

I mean, I had explained that I would take care of her until she got her stuff together, but so the, you know, the agreement was that she would. But now at this point, you know, she's. She moved in at her friends temporarily, and she thinks that that's the better option, but I don't see that as the case.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You said she moved in with.

[Caller]

Figure out how. How to. I'm sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She moved in with her friends.

[Caller]

Right. And her friend has all her bills paid by her parents.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So she.

[Rachel Cruz]

She's moved out Y'all aren't living together anymore?

[Caller]

As of a few days ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, did you break up? Did you kick her out? What happened?

[Caller]

No, just, I. I confronted her about it again, and she got mad sensitive.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Oh, wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So is this.

[Rachel Cruz]

You've made a lot of more moves than I was thinking. Good for you.

[Caller]

Well, now I'm, you know, wondering. Or Which. That's not up to y'all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, yeah, I. Here's the thing. I want you to have a little bit of time just with Chris, right? And I want you to actually sit down and be honest with yourself. And it's going to be tough because you're emotional, you feel pain. You love this person. You care about this person. You had. Here's the hardest part. You had plans with this person, right? You started creating pictures for tomorrow. And this person was in those pictures. And then it was revealed. This person doesn't want that same life that you want. And then this person just bailed on you when you said, hey, I want to sit down and have this conversation. And so just because something hurts doesn't mean it's not the right move. But I want you to be honest with yourself. And by the way, me and my wife broke up three or four, I don't know, five times when we were dating, so that doesn't mean it's over either.

[Caller]

But, yeah, and she has popped out before, you know, she just. She gets scared of her emotions, I think. And, you know, but I think the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Deeper question is, what's this life we're building together? What's it gonna look like? And is she a kind of person you want to build a life with? And I think you having the courage to be honest and say, so far, no, because when the going gets hard, you kind of just don't want to do anything. And she might say, I want someone that's just going to take care of me and do whatever I want whenever I want it. And I want to be a princess. And you can say, amazing. Not gonna be my I don't want to ride or die like that. And you get to choose. You both get to choose that, right? And that. That may mean that both of you end up heartbroken for a season.

[Caller]

Yeah, sounds like that's it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I hate it for you.

[Caller]

Well, that's okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I tell you, it's. Most people wouldn't have the courage to do what you did, to sit down and say, hey, here's what we agreed on. Here's what I want. Are you still in? And she said, no. Most People go ahead and go get married and they figure this out and you're five or six or seven with two kids, when they're just. They've had enough.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But that doesn't make your pain today feel any better. I'm sorry, man. I hate it for you.

[Caller]

That's all right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I give you. Can I give you one homework assignment?

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are you again? 26. You say 26, right? I want you tonight by yourself. No alcohol, nothing. I want you to write a letter to 30 year old Chris. Okay?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want you to tell him the things that you started to do today so that he could have the life he had when he was 30. And if she's in that picture, then go call her tomorrow. But I want you to be clear about what you want your house to feel like, the partnership you have with the romantic partner. I want you, like, financially, what is this thing going to look like when you're 30 and what must be true today so you can begin taking those steps. You're just going to reverse engineer it, but I want you to write a letter to yourself. Okay. Put in a drawer somewhere and open it when you're 30. But this, it's a way to get your head out of this immediate pain and this immediate motion and get your head back up on the horizon and say, okay, what needs to be true for tomorrow? Okay.

[Caller]

Okay. I'll give that a try.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Appreciate you, man.

[Rachel Cruz]

Thanks, Chris.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Best of luck to you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And always remember, when you're setting a very reasonable boundary or expectation for someone, you're not being cruel. Like, this is. This is the world and we have to pay bills, we have to do things right. So you're not asking. It's like insane requests, right? I mean, this is, this is pretty basic stuff, Chris, so I don't want you to feel like the bad guy in it. I mean, seriously, it's. I don't know, it's. It's pretty basic. But I'm, I'm, I'm proud of you and like, really encouraged that you had the courage to set that boundary and hopefully a very kind way, which I think you did. You seem like a great guy. So sorry, Chris, but glad you called in. Hope we could help.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, guys, I got big news. Aldi is, is now the official grocery sponsor of the Ramsay Show. Yeah, Ramsay is teaming up with Aldi, the grocery store that cares as much about saving money as I do. Get this. Aldi branded products save you up to 63% over similar name brand products at other stores. It's great quality and big savings on everything you need with no gimmicks, no membership fees or coupons required. See for yourself how Aldi is saving Americans across the country $8.3 billion a year. So stop paying more and start shopping at Aldi where they have the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you today at Aldi US. That's a L D. I dot US.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is the Ramsey show trip 888-825-5225 hey listen, if you are concerned, concerned about the economy and you just see your neighbor pulling into their, your nice middle class neighborhood in a car that you like, how do you, how, how are you affording that? Why would you do. Why? And you just wish people around you had the wisdom of this show for no money. You don't have to, you don't have to send any money. You know, all you have to do is like or subscribe the show. It puts the show up into the algorithms and it kicks it into the feeds of your neighbors, into their podcast feeds, into their YouTube feeds. It just sends the show everywhere and the more people who subscribe and like, and I know it's a pain in the butt and I know it. Sometimes you have to log in. It's worth it for everybody. It puts the show in front of more people. And so for everybody it's a, it's a, it's a, it just doesn't cost.

[Rachel Cruz]

Anything to help out your neighbor and share. Share the podcast, though, too. I mean, I get my crime podcasts that I listen to from friends, even here at the office, and we'll send each other podcasts that we love. So if you love it or if.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There'S an episode, you think, oh, my mom needs to hear the Senate to her right? Or a buddy that this marriage sounds like yours, send it to him. Be careful.

[Rachel Cruz]

Make sure to tell them that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Be careful with that. But yeah, that's right. Hey, let's go out to Honolulu and talk to the. Max. What's up, Max?

[Caller]

Hey, how you doing? Thank you for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You bet me.

[Rachel Cruz]

How's Hawaii, Max?

[Caller]

It's nice. It's nice.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sunny sounds.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not Max Holloway, are you? One of my heroes?

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. What's up?

[Caller]

All right. I was calling because I. Something happened where my brother kind of holds a lot of anger towards me because I. He got fired from his job and I had to take it over. And I'm getting ready to move out now, and I'm worried it's going to cause, like, more family disconnect. So I'm just trying to get some help, like, navigating the situation.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is it a family business?

[Caller]

It's like, it's like a financial and family thing. I mean, the business. No, it's. It's somebody we know that he worked for.

[Rachel Cruz]

What is it? What kind of job? What kind of business is it? It's a.

[Caller]

It's a pool cleaning job, and I take home like about like 50 year. So it's pretty good.

[Rachel Cruz]

50 a year. And why. Why did he get fired?

[Caller]

He had gone on a trip for an extended leave and I was covering it for him, and the boss at the end of it decided to fire him and offered me the job.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man. So you did a better job?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, it was just like he didn't like, break a rule. You just out cleaned the pools and the boss was like, I kind of want you instead.

[Caller]

There were some issues with him, and that's was a part of it. I wasn't sure if my brother would even be let back after anyways, but.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, okay, so what, what. What is his beef with you? That. That you weren't ride or die, like, yeah, forget these guys. Is that the. Is that the beef?

[Caller]

I think what happened was he's just feeling like he lost out on a good opportunity.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He did. He wasn't a good worker, somebody to.

[Caller]

Blame for it, and it's me. He wants to blame me for it instead of himself, and I'm okay with that. The main issue is his. The money from the job helps financially support my family. I come from, like, a single mom household, and I'm 19. I'm trying to move out and be on my own, which would mean that I wouldn't have the same amount of money for my mom anymore. And I'm worried that's going to create even more of a family disconnect. So I don't really know what to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's your mom do?

[Caller]

She clean. She's a cleaner. She. She works like two jobs cleaning.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much does she make?

[Caller]

I'm not sure exactly. I think. I think I went over it with her one time.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, how much does she. How much difference does she need? Does she, like. How much are you covering the bills in the house?

[Caller]

I'm contributing about. It was about fifteen hundred dollars that I was paying off from debt on the water bill. And then now it's like to about 1300. I pay some of rent, I buy all of our food, and I cover the. The water.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is she. Does she have other struggles, Max?

[Caller]

No, I mean, I think like, with.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Addiction or with mental health challenges. Do I.

[Caller]

No, I. I don't. Sorry, what was that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm asking, does she have.

[Caller]

No, not with addiction or mental health.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

So she just. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why. Why have you become the caretaker of your. Of your. Of your mom?

[Caller]

I think it's just. It's really expensive here, and it's hard to afford to live out here if you aren't making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly.

[Caller]

And I have to. The main thing is that I. My mom, I think she'd be fine her own. But I have two younger sisters, and that's where I feel weird leaving. I feel like I'm abandoning them.

[Rachel Cruz]

How old are they?

[Caller]

They're 11. They turned 11 yesterday.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is it at a point where you need to sit down with your mom and have a hard conversation about the financial realities?

[Caller]

So I have about six months ago, and I've been keeping up. I told her six months ago I plan on moving out of March.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

And she hasn't really done any much action towards, like, figuring out another situation. So I don't know, like, if I should just stay and keep helping so that we can stay, they can stay in their house, or if I should just go on and, you know, put my oxygen mask on before there's, you know, Man.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I just feel like, Max, that. I mean, you've put yourself in a caretaker's role at 19 you know what I mean? And it's heroic, right? In one sense. I mean, you've really stepped up and helped your mom. But this will be your whole life unless something else changes. And I feel like that's unfair to you in your life, in your future family to feel like you have to be the one to carry this burden. And I understand obviously why that is, but long term, I just don't think it's fair for you to play this role.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think I've come to a similar conclusion. I just feel like I'm, I'm like, sure, like what?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, what do you do? Does your mom, like lose the house with your two little sisters? Right?

[Caller]

Yeah. And then it's like, where do they go? We have family here and I'm sure they could move in with my grandparents or something.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But hold on, hold on. Your mom also plays an integral part of this. If you told me, hey, my mom really struggles with addiction and my mom struggles with some mental emotional health disorders, then I would tell you, like, man, life handed you a message and it's just, it might be a season, right? It may be that you're going to stay at home for a few years and see these, these young girls until they get older, right? That's not the case. Your mom's making some choices on a daily basis as to where she's going to work and how much money she's going to make and what she's going to ask of her 19 year old son. And so, yeah, you're making decisions for an adult and that's not your job. Your job is, unfortunately, you've been cast in the role to make sure your 11 year old little sisters have food and water, which never your job, but here we are, right? And so, man, you're, you're a, you're a man of noble character. But I want you to hear what Rachel's saying. Five years from now, what would be better for you to have started pool cleaning and also gone to get a couple of community college classes on the side. And five years from now you've got an associate's degree and now you've got four employees of your own and you're making $200,000 or you're still making $50,000. This guy had to lay you off because business got slow and now you're making $35,000 and you're in the same bedroom in the same house, except you're 24 years old. Like, if you think on a, on a longer time horizon, what's the best thing you can do for your family, it might be to go spread your wings at fly.

[Caller]

I think, I think so too. I think I just needed some. Like, I didn't even not feel like I was crazy or leaving.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, you're not crazy. You're gonna feel guilty.

[Rachel Cruz]

Cause it sounds unkind. Yeah, it sounds unkind.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're gonna feel guilty.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Like it sounds like, oh my gosh, I'm abandoning my family. But what I want to relieve you of is that was never supposed to be your role. And like John said, if there was like a dire situation of something, that's another conversation. But yeah, I mean like it's, it's, it's a, it's a grown up problem that your mom, who has two daughters at home, should be the one calling the show and saying, I can't pay my bills, what do I need? What can I do? And looking at her budget and all of that. And I think you can help guide that, Max. But you can't even change the way she handles money either because you don't have that ability. We don't have the ability to change people.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's where I think you can get some peace in this transaction. Okay, number one, you're going to feel guilty. Just know that's coming. Okay? You may have heard me say this on the show. Choose guilt over resentment every time. If you just stay there and wither, you're going to resent your mom and that's not fair to her. So choose guilt. The second thing is come up with a number and sit down and tell your mom for six months, I'm going to send $1,000 home. I'm going to send $750 home and make sure that everybody's clear on when this money is coming and give her a ramp. You'll sleep a little better at night, I think, and it's going to be not just a cutoff, but it will be a peaceful departure. I'm sorry, my brother. Let us know if we can help.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Rachel Cruz]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. The question of the day comes from why Refi? The Ramsey Show. This is one of our new sponsors which we, we love because if you are in default with private student loans, you need to contact why Refi? And obviously we don't encourage letting your, your loans go into default. We teach responsibility. But these amounts have some of you struggling and there is a way forward. So why Refi was created for people in your situation. So go to y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, today's question comes from Justin in Virginia. Justin writes, how can I stop being jealous of how much my siblings and in laws earn? My wife and I have no debt and a really good household income. We're happy in our careers. We're not missing out on anything due to how much we earn. I just can't figure out how to not be so triggered and frustrated by other people's income.

[Rachel Cruz]

Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a very self aware question.

[Rachel Cruz]

Very interesting. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you think, Rachel?

[Rachel Cruz]

Gosh. And I'm curious how he, I wonder if he knows the actual number of the income or if he is making up a story in his head that they're making a ton because of how they're living.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Gotcha.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because lifestyle and income are obviously two different things. So I'd be curious on that. What's causing you to think that they're earning more? Is it because of how they live their life? And kind of sucky part is when you live your life responsibly for a season, it's not going to look flashy. Eventually you'll start to build wealth and you can enjoy it. But there is kind of that season of, of grounding which is where you guys are. But if you know the number and you're like, oh, no, they make half a million or whatever crazy a year. I mean, I. I have learned, John, when moments like that come up for me and it's not income necessarily. It could be, but I don't. I don't hear people's income a lot, but a situation that they're experiencing, something that I want to experience as much as I can muster up, just celebrating them. It's amazing how that fades quickly where the eyes off are off of me. My eyes are off of me. And you can just be excited for somebody. Right. Genuinely. And it doesn't always come easy, I don't think. But when you can just be happy for them and hopefully maybe they're in a great career that's helping other people or something, I don't know that you can find, like, the silver lining and what they're doing and being excited, but the fact that you're being triggered constantly, I'm wondering, you know, your level of contentment is obviously not fully baked, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I have found that I always want to pull the string that's attached to that story. And somewhere in Justin's heart and mind, the dollar amount that you earn every year is attached to value how much you're worth.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And somebody told you that somewhere. And I found it helpful to get to the, like, where did that story come from? Oh, dad used to tell older brother how great he was because he made $6 an hour. I only made $5. Like, whatever that story is.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But the other thing is, I think you're right. I think Justin would be pretty cool to out of the blue, write your siblings a letter and just say, I see, you know, I'm so proud of you. I see how hard you're working, and I see what an amazing. And instead of when you feel that jealousy, our tendency is to pull away instead of go towards that person to celebrate them. And our bodies have a way of. Of adjusting for that proximity. Like, we're. We're in support. And it just over time realizes I don't have to. We're not in competition, and I don't have to fight you. I have a great life. One other quick thing. Often when you are creating a life, I'll say it like this, that is less alive when you are in a. We go to work, we make this much money, we have this couch, we have this house, we have this car. We were supposed to be happy here. It's easy to put your eyes up and start looking for what other people have that you don't. And it Often over the course of my life, when I found myself jealous in certain places, it has often brought me and my wife back to the table to say, what life are we creating for ourselves and where do we find excitement and aliveness and adventure and joy in our home? Because it's not. I'm starting to look for other places.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it almost always comes back to, we've become co managers of our house.

[Rachel Cruz]

Such a great. That's a good point. And so the stagnant. Like, being stagnant.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

In life. And I think we've gone through season that you look up and you're like, oh, my gosh, we've just been doing the same thing. And there's nothing as much laughter or joy or levity.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right?

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

But when you say, no, we're putting the phones away, we're doing family game night, and we're gonna do this stupid game that's so silly. But everyone ends up laughing, Right. You just do these things. And they don't have to be expensive. Gosh. It was last break, before the summer, though, I think it was spring. And we took all the kids and we went to a local high school, like, parking lot, ran them with bikes. And they still talk about it. Like, do you remember we rode bikes in a parking lot? And I was like, you ride bikes all the time. But it was like this, like, I don't know, it was so. Like, it was so small and insignificant. But to them, right. It brought this, like, other magic of, like, this new place or whatever it was for them. But it's those things again. It doesn't have to cost money. You don't have to go travel to Europe to do that. Like, find. Find it in your home. Because, gosh, we need it, all of us, right? Especially this time of year, election season and everything. We're just like, oh, my gosh, give me some levity and enjoyment with. With the people that you love. Find those boxes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it's recognizing levity and joy for 99% of us is a choice.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There are people in abusive situations. Yes. There are people who are deep poverty. Yes. There are people who are abjectly on the margins. Yes. But for most of us, we go home and we look at our spouse and we choose what happens next. We choose how we respond. We choose our frustration. We choose to not pick up the trash, not put our clothes away. We choose to just watch tv, just sit there on our phones. All of those are choices. And that means we can choose Something different.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so, Justin, I. I challenge you to sit down with your wife and y'all reimagine your life. And you might end up in the exact same space. But the exercise of reimagining it, what adventures do we want to create inside of our own home, even for no money? What does that look like?

[Rachel Cruz]

Totally.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It can rearrange everything. And write your siblings a letter, a handwritten letter tells us how freaking proud of them you are. It's so cool.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's going to swallow some pride to do that. Right. When you're. When you're in a state of or.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It opens your heart up and you.

[Rachel Cruz]

But it's. That takes a. Okay. I'm gonna. I'm gonna celebrate something that is not always fun for me. Right. But you start to learn it so good. All right. Up next we have Dan in Eugene, Oregon. Hey, Dan, welcome to the show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hi, Rachel and John.

[Caller]

How are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

We're doing great. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm. I'm.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, not great.

[Caller]

Number of years. I guess my question for you is how do I calculate when I can feasibly retire and. Or when I can start to plan a second career? And the rough years is. I'm about three years into being a widow. Widower.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Thank you. I have three kids. Two of them will go to college. I owe 380 on my house. And I sort of, as I was sort of looking at as. I don't know, I guess getting our lives back in order over the last number of years. One of the Ramsey quotes of why don't they teach this stuff in school? Is of like, you know, how do you even calculate right. What. What is the right trajectory? And now that I'm doing it for alone, one and two is for myself. It's a loan, I guess I should say. Or as a single person.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure. Yep. How old are you, Dan?

[Caller]

48.

[Rachel Cruz]

48. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, Dan, before Rachel's gonna walk you through the numbers of it, can I challenge you on something?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this might be a harder exercise than the math problem.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I would love for you to spend some time and unfortunately, I don't know that you can do this with anybody other than just taking Dan out on a retreat. But I would love for you to figure out or ask yourself what do you want it to feel like when you walk in your front door at the age of 55?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's because I want you to ask yourself what kind of life do you want to have at 55? Because that's going to determine the math problem.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Because I think when you get to the numbers really quick, Dan, we only have about 40 seconds. I'm sorry for the short call. It's going to be looking at what do you have in retirement now and then averaging out, you know, average returns, 10 to 12%, whatever that looks like. And knowing your lifestyle, to John's point, how much is it going to take to run your household at retirement and what is it going to look like to be able to, to, you know, you have to calculate inflation and all of that. Now if you have not sat down with a Smartvestor pro, I would do that. You can go to ramseysolutions.com and find one in your area because I want to be able to see all of your numbers, everything that you have in retirement, including this house, and what's going to be the best bet to get you in a place. But again, it's lifestyle, it's return on the market and inflation that goes up every year is kind of determining factors. So thanks for the call. Thanks to everyone in the booth. John, thanks for a great hour. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, I'm Jade Warshaw and I want to talk to you for a second about student loan refinancing. Okay. If your payment and interest rate are burying you and you feel like you can't dig out, refinancing, your student loan might make sense because a lower rate could help you free up more money in your budget and a shorter term could help you pay down your debt faster. So reach out to the student loan refinancing experts today@l Laurelroad.com Ramsey There you'll find helpful resources like a student loan rate table, a refinancing calculator and other tools. Plus, you can get an initial rate in just a few minutes. Laurel Road offers low competitive rates starting under 5%. You can even get your interest rate lower if you sign up for autopay. If your situation is more complex, though, sign up for a free 30 minute consultation with one of their student loan refinancing experts to get your tough questions answered. Listen, not everybody should refinance their student loan. So make sure you run the numbers. But for some people, it's the right move. Learn more@l Laurelroad.com Ramsey to find out more about their student loan refinancing. That's LaurelRoad.com Ramsey.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Live from Nashville. Tennis seed. This is the Ramsey show where we talk about your money, your loves, your relationships and your life. I'm John Deloney, joined By number one best selling author Rachel Cruz. We're taking your calls on just about everything. Triple 882-552-5888 825-5225. If you're joining us in the Ramsey network app, welcome. We are glad you are here. Let's go out to Detroit Rock City and talk to Ken. What's up, Ken?

[Caller]

Hey, how you guys doing?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dude? We're rocking on to the break of dawn, brother. What's up?

[Caller]

All right. I guess my question would be that here in Detroit we have a pretty good income. One income household, family of three, kids, married. And it just seems like living paycheck to paycheck can't seem to get ahead. It just kind of almost feel like we're struggling here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When you say pretty good income I found on the show, some people think that means a million bucks and some people may think that means 40,000. What's a pretty good income?

[Caller]

We're, we're at about 275 to 300k a year with my income.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. In Detroit, right?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We classify that as pretty good or in the global sense, the top of the top of the top. Teeny tiny percent of one. Yeah. So you're crushing.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's great. So, Ken, what's. So you're saying that you feel like you guys are still living paycheck to paycheck even with this? Have you guys dug into any numbers? Do you, do you know why that this is happening?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm pretty, I, I try to stay up on the numbers and I. And we got a lot of debt. We got a lot of student debt. I went back to school for anesthesia, so I'm a nursing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I'm sitting on probably I'm right about 181,000 in student loan debt still.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. What other debt is there?

[Caller]

So we got that we owe 200,000 on the house. 203,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

On the house. We at one point took out a 401k loan which we still owe 45,000 on.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

I have a HELOC loan, which another 17,000 on that and about 20,000 in credit cards.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What about cars?

[Caller]

Cars? We have two leases. They were both three year leases. One we still owe 13,000 on and the other one we owe 10.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much a month are you guys paying those leases? How much are the payments?

[Caller]

One of the payments is 415amonth and the other one's about 460.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

About a thousand bucks.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, Rachel's gonna walk you through this. Can I just. Can I tell you something? I've spent a lot of my career sitting behind closed doors with medical professionals. And can I tell you, you're not crazy. Is that cool? You're not nuts.

[Caller]

I mean, that helps.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what you've done. You've done exactly what they told you to do.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. They gave you some. Some. Some quippy things like cars are depreciating assets. You never want to own them, so just lease them. You're going to buy new ones anyway. You got to buy a house that looks like this because they can't take it away from you if you ever, you know, get in super trouble. And, hey, if you can make this money. But you got to go back to school. Of course you do. And. And it just keeps going and going, and you look up and you make, you know, a little over a quarter million dollars a year and you can't breathe. It doesn't make any sense. So hear me say you're not nuts. Also hear me say you can get out. Like, the path out of this is not difficult. It'll be. It'll suck, but it's not hard.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it's going to take two years of you deciding to live a radically different Life for just 24 months or so. Maybe 36 months. But I think 24 months, given you can work extra shifts and do I think you can clean this up and set an entirely new trajectory for your home? Because what your home doesn't have right now, you've got everything in your house. You don't have any peace.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that fair?

[Caller]

Yeah. No, that's. That's. That's correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. If you. If you and your wife can settle on that being the goal. Not the cars, not the house. Not if you settle on. I want to walk in from work, and I want everyone to be happy that I'm here. I want to walk in from work with a smile on my face, not with my head slumped over. It's going to take about 24 rough months, and you can get there.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I just know too many people who are. Too many people in the medical profession who are dropping their kids off for college and they still have their own student loans. That's just madness. Right? It's madness. Those are my friends, by the way, bro. Like, it's just. It just is. So you're not crazy, all right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And Ken and I think Yalls situation, too. It is the perfect picture of just like this lifestyle creep. Right? I'm like, you're just. You just A little bit here, a little bit there, add a car, go on vacation, go out to like, we're just making good money. Because you're bringing home probably what, 28, 000amonth or so.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, and it depends too, because I can, I mean that, that's with a little bit of overtime, but.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, but like consistent, right? Sure, yeah, yeah, but you look at that, just your monthly take home and you're like, man, you know what I mean? Like, there's, there's a lot you can do with it. But also like John's saying the normalization of like, yeah, but we could spend that. I mean, you know, it's, it's the classic idea that your income is not the issue for most people. It is your money habits and the way that you handle your money. And so that magnification is exactly what you guys are experiencing. So it's like, yeah, we'll get two nice cars, we'll do this, we'll get. We' more debt. And it's just payment, payment, payment, payment, payment, payment. So a lot of this income is going to these payments. So clearing all of it up I think is key. And I think you and your wife sitting down just as a experiment, and just say, what if we made a hundred grand? Which again is above the average household income, that is 80 grand.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nobody's starving.

[Rachel Cruz]

So even a fun, you know, even more of a fun exercise, just put 80 grand and say, okay, if we brought in 80 grams a year, what it comes out to per month, how, how can we live on that? Like live on that and then extra from that of what you actually bring in is going to be thrown at the debt or whatever it looks like. But just, you know, I think it's always a fun experiment for married couples to sit down and do this, like play the income game and just see how much can we actually, if we had to do this, how much. What would our life look like if we had to live on 60 grand a year, on 50 grand a year, on 70 grand a year. And then the great thing about you can is that's not what you guys are making. So the margin is there. It's just the choice of lifestyle. And so getting your lifestyle wrapped and under control is going to be number one. And it is going to feel like a shock because it's not going to be going out to eat. It's going to be shopping at Aldi, not Whole Foods. It's going to be, I mean you're going to be living right like you're making 70 to 80. And that's how you're going to clean it up. You're not going to clean it up by just kind of here and there. And we'll just. We'll kind of do it, but we're still going to go. We're going to still go on vacation. We're still going to go out to the nice, you know, date nights that we want and drop 200 bucks. Like, you can't do that. Like, if you're going to do this, you have to radically do it. And so you and your wife sitting down and saying, okay, here's our budget for the next two years and mapping that out and mapping out your lifestyle. And then from there, starting to pay off these debts, smallest to largest. And what's wild again about that income coming in, I'm like, you know, you guys could clean up the HELOC in two to three months. You could clean up all the credit card debt in two to three months. I mean, like, you can make a lot of really big progress, Ken, if you guys decide to do it. And then the hope on the other end, we always talk about, you live like no one else. It's not gonna be fun, but you guys can do this. Even the big mountain of the $180,000 student loan, you know, you can get it cleaned up. And if you live like no one else later, you're bringing in 30, you know, 30 grand a month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can do whatever you want. Yeah, you do whatever you want now.

[Rachel Cruz]

You get to do whatever you want. But I would see, you know, talk to the car company and look at your leases. Leases are always a little bit more confusing of the buyout and everything. But if you can get out of those, I mean, just do what you can to dwindle down this debt, like, as fast as possible, Ken, and you guys will see the progress. It's just going to be up to you all if you want to really do this. But the math is there. It's gonna work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Math is easy. And you're gonna take every shift, you're gonna miss little league games. You're gonna do whatever it takes for.

[Rachel Cruz]

24 months and make a crap ton of money and pay this off are free forever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, guys, Rachel Cruze here. All right, I'm about to say what everyone already knows, but budgeting is a good thing to do now. Actually starting, well, that's where people freeze up. And you guys, it doesn't have to be that way. With the EveryDollar budgeting app getting Started is super easy and so is sticking to it. You can set up your first budget in less time than it takes to go through the Chick Fil. A drive thru. It's fast. And the best part, with unlimited budget categories, you can customize it to fit your life. Grocery runs, coffee runs, or planning your next family trip. Whatever you have going on. Everydollar helps you see exactly what's happening with your money. You'll know what's coming in, what's going out, and what's left over for some fun. Because let's be real, you need some fun in your budget. Everydollar keeps budgeting simple and stress free just the way you want it. So go download the app for free and get started today. Again, go download everydollar today. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions?

[Dave Ramsey]

Possibly.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, credit unions for one thing are nonprofit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. And what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's fair winds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey tribe is incredible.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach, they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just, just signed up and we got an account. Yeah, and I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience and I, I so, so appreciate that. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with [e-mail] or on their app and you'll have free access to over thousand ATMs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fair Winds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org Ramsey welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Home ownership is something that we believe should be part of your financial plan, but it's really hard these days. The price of houses in the housing market is absolutely insane. But when you do it the right way, when you buy a home the right way, it brings you peace. It's not a burden, it is a blessing. And so if you are looking to sell your home or purchase a home the right way, the way we teach you want to make sure to check out some top agents in your area that we trust. These are Ramsey trusted agents. They have years of experience that will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, marketing, and making or choosing the right offer for your home. So to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free, go to ramseysolutions.com agent and check them out. All right, up next we have Scott in Pittsburgh. Hey, Scott, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, I've loaned $80,000 to my cousin for his house flipping business through multiple notarized promissory notes over the last four years. I received that $80,000 back, but none of the $45,000 in interest. My cousin recently informed me that his business is in trouble. He lives four hours away, has four kids, a rocky marriage and other debt. So he's not rich to say the least. He now won't return any of my calls or texts and I sought some legal counsel. And all of the notes have a confession of judgment clause. So legally we're good even to not go to court to get a judgment. So that's in my favor. That side of the family has a lot of crazy in it to the extent that one individual is a little crazy, a little dangerous to be around personally. My wife and I are in baby step seven. We have four kids, two high stress jobs, an extremely active social life in our church. So part of me says just let this go and go focus on your life. But another part of me says, go get the money that you've earned in interest, especially since he won't call you back. I feel like I've let my wife down on this decision even though we haven't really lost any money. So I'm Just wondering what path should I go down and how do I emotionally accept that path.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One time? Well, I won't tell that story. That's a personal story. Scott. Walk away. Walk away. And I think the, the making peace is making peace with yourself, because you knew this was a, a real possibility before you did this.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you tried to cover yourself with a bunch of legal paperwork and you had a family member that you probably kind of deep down knew was going to do this looked at you and said, I'm not doing that. And I don't think you let anybody down. I think it's a story you're telling yourself to kind of COVID over the fact that you kind of feel like, like you got what you knew was probably going to happen. And so I'd make peace with it. Don't ever loan family members money again. And let's go on about our life.

[Caller]

All right, thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, does that, does that feel right?

[Caller]

It does. It. It's kind of where I thought I was, but the whole, like, just not calling and texting back after, like a four year relationship where we had a great back and forth and, you know, money was exchanged both ways and things felt very comfortable. And then, you know, all of a sudden it was just like, okay, it's, it's gone.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But that means you're gonna try to go get your interest because you're mad. Don't do that. Yeah, don't do that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's one of those things not to say, told you so, but we always tell people, even if you got it, and even if you're close, don't borrow money because it changes the relationship. And now there's, there's something wedged between you and it's shame and it's really hard to overcome. And so even if you send him a handwritten letter that just say, your debts forgiven, I wish you the best, and go on about your life.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I know in the story I'm playing in my head, Scott, I could be wrong, is he's probably panicking. Right. I mean, he, he has forced life. He has. Yeah. I mean, he's. Yeah, he's, he's fearful. I mean, he, his fear, you know, radar is up all the way, and he probably can't even emotionally, in the fact, you know, go there. The fact that your family, too, that adds a whole other dynamic.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or the one guy he went to for help, he can't even do that anymore because he's. There's 45,000 bucks between the two of you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And I. And I know there's probably some justice in you, Scott, even the way you laid out the question.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. You're mad. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

I can tell that you're. Yeah, you're pissed. You're like, man, this is. This isn't fair. Right. Fair would be, I'm owed this money and why am I not getting it? Right. But. But I think John's right. I think there is a kind of a humble pill to swallow to say, okay, I'm gonna. I wanna move about my. Move along with my life. Because you can, Right? Financially speaking, you guys are on baby step seven. You are. You're fine. Is this the quote, unquote, like, justice play? It's not. The justice play would be to take him to court and continue to ring out, you know, the money that he doesn't have and take his family through. I mean, you know, and you could. But you would definitely, for sure, you know, lose that relationship. And in the end, I don't know if that's worth $45,000 of your time and your energy and your mental capacity.

[Caller]

Yeah, agreed. I would say we didn't have a whole lot of relationship even, you know, even before that, considering, like, we were just four hours away. Not, you know, strong relationship, but it's. It's just a strange situation because of how. How great things were going for four years and even talking together about projects that he was working on, and. And then it's just, like, all gone.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you know what happened to his business? I'm just curious if. If he just did bad deals or what.

[Caller]

Same story that Dave always talks to, right? He had a partner. The partner skipped town. The whole business was on him, and he couldn't. He couldn't keep the whole business afloat. So, you know, went from being very profitable over four years to, you know, taking a step back over the last, like, 18 months or so.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, send them. Send him a letter that just says, hey, brother, you're freed. I'm tearing up the promissory notes, and I wish you the best.

[Caller]

All right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think. I think you'll feel a weight off your shoulders. And by the way, next time, you'll. You'll feel. You'll feel that sense of injustice, and it's right. So you're not crazy. There's nothing wrong with you. Whatever. Like, you'll get that little angry moments every now and then, but you got your money back. Count your blessings. Yeah. And, yes, walk away.

[Rachel Cruz]

So sorry. All right, John, I'm gonna take a question from the Ramsey Network app. Those of you that are listening, and this question is one again. When you do this, you don't have to call in. You just click the link in the show notes and download the app for free, which you guys have done, because you're listening there. But this question is. I determined my why statement is to help people heal so that they can be free. And this has become a motivation for a career change. To become a mental health counselor. That would mean add forty thousand dollars to my current undergrad debt of forty thousand dollars. So the original was a hundred and ten thousand. What is your recommendation for funding a master's in mental health counseling?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man.

[Rachel Cruz]

Our mental health professional sitting to my right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I. I guess they'll teach you in counseling. One of the core tenants is you can't give what you don't have. So if you're. If your heart is to help people heal so that they may be free, and in order to do that, you chain yourself to a student loan company for another five or 10 or 15 years, you're going to end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. And so I'm going to tell you, you can help people heal in your job as a school teacher. You can help people heal in your job as a. I'll tell you this. I got to my hotel last night. I was in Pittsburgh. I got to my hotel really, really late. And the woman checking us in was a saint. Just one of those people that you're around and your heart rate just goes down. And she was so kind. And I was a. She was a gift. She was a cup of cold water in the desert. It was after just a long, long day. And so you can help people heal on the job site when y'all are pouring concrete. So this idea that you have to be a licensed mental health professional and you have to go into $40,000 of student loan debt on top of the 40 you already have out there, that's just unwise. And I had a. I had a graduate advisor that says, if you are sitting in a clinical chair and you don't know how you're going to pay your bills, you cannot sit across from somebody and say, I can help you because you're not whole.

[Rachel Cruz]

Interesting.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what does that mean? That means get this 40 grand paid off as soon as possible. See if you can find some side work working in or around counseling offices or social work offices or in children's homes or in boys ranches or things like that where you can work with people. Make sure this is what you want to do, and Then get a job at a local university as a housing director or something and they will pay for your graduate degree. But don't add, don't delta double your debt load in order to do this one particular job when you can help people heal in a number of different capacities. I hate to admit this, but I don't always eat right. I know I need to eat more fruits and veggies, but sometimes I just have to pound some chips because they taste so good. That's why I love my Field of Greens. It helps me eat healthy when I don't have much time. And each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens was doctor selected for a specific health benefit. Heart, lungs, kidney, metabolism, even healthy weight. And folks, I ain't getting any younger. It's super easy to mix with water. And here is the great part of it. I thought it might taste like grass, but it tastes great. And only Field of Greens makes this promise. Your doctor will notice your improved health or your money back. So go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsey for 20% off your first order. That's fieldofgreens.com Ramsey to save 20% on your first order.

[Dave Ramsey]

Big news, business owners. My brand new book, build a business you love is officially available to start reading now. Look, running a business is tough. Some days it feels like you're just duct taping the whole thing together. I get it. That's why I put 30 years of hard earned lessons into this book. To help you grow faster, make smarter decisions and stop learning everything the hard way. Don't wing it. Get your [e-mail] store and start reading today.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz. Let's go out to Albany, New York and talk to Jessica. Hey, Jessica, what's going on? Hi, how's it going?

[Caller]

So I'm calling because I have a whole life insurance policy that I've been holding to since 2012. And now I'm thinking hearing Dave and you guys and hearing that hole is garbage and that I should switch the term, but I'm not sure about the tax implications and stuff like that. I just don't really know what to do with the life insurance policy from here on out.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Have you looked into what the payout will be when you. If you dissolve it so it says.

[Caller]

The cash value is eight grand.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And of your money back to you? That drives me crazy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And have you looked into term at all to make sure that you, you. I mean, are you healthy? Jessica, like yeah, you could probably get another insurance. Okay.

[Caller]

I'm gonna be 39. I'm 39 now. I'm gonna be 40 next year. So I'm kind of like, do I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on to it?

[Caller]

I have two little ones. My husband's the primary beneficiary, but my oldest daughter is the contingent. And I, like, do I hold on to this? I already called the company and asked them if I should, you know, if I could switch it from whole to term. And of course they said no, well, you could cash it out and then get a term insurance policy with us.

And I'm like, I don't know what.

The tax implications are or anything or if it'd be worth it to do that or if I should just hold on to. Because it looks like it is. It's gotten, like, $1,500 in the last year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but it's your money, according to the statement that.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So the way. Yeah, they take your money back. You overpay them. They invest that money, they take a piece of the investment return, and then they call you and they're like, look what you have.

[Rachel Cruz]

And it's a crappy return anyways. So. Yeah, so, no, I would cancel it, regardless of what the. Whatever the fees and tax implication is. I don't know what taxes are. When you cash it out, it may be income. It may be like a. Like a.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, it's 8,000 bucks. It's not very much money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So I would. I would pay the taxes on it a month.

[Caller]

So I've been ignoring it for all this time.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much? How much?

[Caller]

I'm listening to you guys. I'm like, all right, I need to.

Do something about this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. How much are you paying a month for it?

[Caller]

55.

[Rachel Cruz]

55?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I'm a state worker. I make around 15 a year, so.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, sorry.

[Caller]

I wasn't really missing it, you know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Bucks. Okay, gotcha.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Yeah, so what I would do, I.

[Caller]

Want to be robbed slowly by the.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And that's why.

[Caller]

Either.

[Rachel Cruz]

Totally. And that's what it ends up being. When you're pairing an investment and insurance together, you're always going to get it a crappy product, usually on both sides, but for sure on the investment side. So. So, yeah, I would cancel it for sure today. But before. Well, before you cancel it, I should say make sure you have term in place, because I do want you to have life insurance. You guys have two little kids, so I would still have life insurance. And so you do work. Is that what you Said outside the home.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So I would get a policy 10 to 12 times your annual income. And that's about. That's around the policy that you would need. And I would go to Xander. You can go to Xander.com or give them a call. Xander Insurance. And they're great because they're a more. They're. They're an insurance broker, so they're going to shop all different companies to get you the best deal versus, like this one you call. I don't have State Farm, and it's just State Farm or whatever, you know, like, you'll be able to get all different kinds of. Of quotes and that. So that's what I would do. And then I would go ahead and apply and get that coverage going first. And the day that goes into place, the pot, the term policy, then I would call whole life, cancel it, get your eight grand and move on.

[Caller]

Gotcha.

All right. And then. Okay, so you said 10 to 12.

[Rachel Cruz]

Month months for my 10 to 12 times insurance policy. 10 to 12 times your annual income.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you make 50 grand. Yeah. I would get a policy at a minimum of 500 grand, which should not cost you very much money a year.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It won't be. It won't be a huge cost. And by the way, this isn't just us pitching a product. When I was 40, maybe 40 or 41.

[Caller]

I understand.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I did the exact thing you're doing. I called Xander and got my insurance moved over to them with term, and it's. It's fantastic.

[Caller]

Gotcha. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. I just want to say also, God bless you guys and thank you for the work that you do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, thank you so much. You are. You're super kind and. Yeah, that, like, Rachel, I hear that a lot on, like, what's the taxes going to be? It's eight grand is pay the taxes.

[Rachel Cruz]

And move your life for whatever it is. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because you have $8 million. Well, let's start worrying about the tax implications.

[Rachel Cruz]

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. When you start looking at, you know, $55 a month and it may feel like, oh, that's, you know, no big deal, but over time, what. It adds up. And then what you end up paying for term is a fraction of that anyways. And always, again, the rule of thumb is your insurance and your investments should never be mixed. Right. Because you're not going to get the rate of return that you could if you put it, you know, even in an. In an index fund or Vanguard or the, or the market. Right. Yeah. In any other place, you're going to get a better rate of return. And a lot of these too. I'm like, they just, it's that slow leak that they just continue just to like take and take and if it goes up, it just goes up and you know what I mean? There's, it doesn't feel, it, it doesn't feel clean. Whole life. There's, there's some entanglements there that there's mixed priorities there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. Scott says Spokane, Washington. And talk to Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth, what's happening?

[Caller]

Hi, guys.

How are you?

Awesome.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're running a scam called a YouTube show and a podcast. What are you up to?

[Rachel Cruz]

I love it.

[Caller]

I watch you guys all the time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Very cool. What's up?

[Caller]

Not much. I was just hoping to get your guys advice.

We are pretty good, but we're not.

As good as we could be.

I feel like we're still struggling month to month. Kind of like paycheck to paycheck. And how do we get ahead? How do we start, like invest saving. Like we have three kids. I homeschool. We're a one income household and the economy is kind of killing us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So here's, here's the hard, the hard truth. You and me and your spouse and my wife and Rachel and Winston, all of us go home as a family and we make choices. And that's not how it was set up for us. We all grew up and they're like, dude, if you just go to college or just do this, then you can do this and this and this and this and this. And sometimes like the dream of we want mom to stay at home. Awesome. We want to not get into the schools. We want to homeschool our kids. Cool. But we can't eat or we're just floating month to month to month. And it's you guys as a family having to back out of that situation and say, okay, the price of milk is bananas right now. The price of bananas is bananas right now. Right. And so it is.

[Caller]

My two youngest are not school age.

So if I went back to work.

We'D have to pay for daycare.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, yeah, I don't think you say yeah, I don't think you're saying go back to work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm not saying you go back to work. Everybody makes choices. So.

[Rachel Cruz]

So Elizabeth, I want to know you got financially, where are you guys at? Do you guys have consumer debt?

[Caller]

No, we have credit cards.

We don't use them.

They are zero balance.

We own our cars, all our vehicles.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much does your husband make a year?

[Caller]

About 65.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And are you guys on a written plan, like a very detailed budget every single month that you know exactly. Here's the amount we have to spend. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so I think the budget is probably.

[Caller]

I need to do that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, no, it's fine. I think that's going to help a lot. And if you stay on the line after this call, Christian will pick up and we'll give you every dollar premium for a year. Because I think the budget, it's one of those places, Elizabeth, that once you do it and you actually have boundaries around certain categories in your life and you force yourself to live within them, then suddenly you're like, oh, there's our margin. There's our margin. It's not getting eaten up by that extra, you know, fast food run that we're gonna go do or out to eat or whatever. Like, it's. It is amazing. When you do plan out and stick to that plan, it's gonna take about three months for you guys to get it to work. So remember that. 90 days. Give yourself a race between now and Christmas. But I want that to be your homework to say. Okay, we're gonna. We're gonna sit down and do this. And then out of that and finding some margin and. And you'll look back on your accounts and your checking account last month and be like, oh, my gosh, we're paying for two subscriptions. We never use. We. You know, like when you actually start getting in the weeds of it, it is amazing what comes to the surface. And even if it's 30, 40 bucks here or there that, you know, that adds up, I mean, that. That will get you some margin. And so do you guys have. Do you guys have an emergency fund?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, I just. Hold on one second. There you go.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, that's fine. Okay. So Elizabeth. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Messed up the phones here. There you go. There you go. There you go.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you guys have an emergency fund? Elizabeth, do you have any savings?

[Caller]

We do not have a specific emergency fund.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We've got a.

[Caller]

A decent amount in our checking account.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So what I would do is open up a high yield savings, and I would move three to six months of expenses out of your checking out to that, and then that's not touched. So that's your emergency fund. If you have to have a few months to add to that savings to get to three to six months, do it. And then from there, I would start investing 15% of your income into retirement and start that going. That can be through his 401k or Roth IRA. You guys can open up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Real change in your money and relationships is possible. You can break the cycles that have kept you from moving forward. You can build a better future for yourself. And it starts here. Hang out with Dr. John DeLoney. And I live in a city near you for the Money and Relationships tour. Starting next week, we'll be in Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City. Time is running out, so grab your tickets while you [e-mail] tour.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Welcome back. 888-255-225. This is the Ramsey Show. Let's go out to Kimberly and Seattle, Washington. Hey, Kimberly, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, are you still there?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're here. How's it going? How can we help?

[Caller]

Good. Well, not good, but maybe you can help help me out. Some suggestions. My husband, just like about a week ago was went to the hospital and was diagnosed with basically liver. His liver is shot. He. It's beyond repair. They gave him maybe a year, year and a half to live.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

Yeah, he's. Yeah. And he struggled with alcohol, you know, addiction, off and on over the years. And he, you know, he said, I knew that this was probably going to happen, but, you know, when you're addicted, you're addicted and it's hard to stop something. So anyway, our situation right now is he. He's working or trying to work because he doesn't feel well. And I've been doing the best I can to do Ramsey stuff without him not being on board, which means not very much. Anyway, I have questions here as to what we should do because this freight train is moving forward.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you guys have kids? Kimberly?

[Caller]

We have adult kids who are doing really well.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

Off on their own. They're amazing.

[Rachel Cruz]

How old are you guys?

[Caller]

I just turned. I just turned 60. He's a few years younger than me. Three years younger than me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

Anyway. And in fact, I just worked. I had a hospital bill. I worked, took a grinding job to pay that the balance off because of insufficient, you know, insurance and just got it done. So here we are with another hurdle. So I'm looking at we do own our own house, but because I haven't been had access, you know, I haven't had access to the funding I wanted to do to keep up on it. It needs exterior repairs that are fairly expensive, as in roof gutters, some siding, and then paint after that. It's an amazing house. It's in really good condition. But that would have to be done if we were to possibly sell and downsize if that would be one of the options we should consider. I don't know. We have a lot of stuff sitting around that my other half cannot get rid of anything ever. So getting those, you know, options for getting those things sold and how to approach him on that. We have to have somebody come and remove.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Kimberly, let me, let me hop in here. The.

[Caller]

Yes, please.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You've gone directly and you've, and quite honestly, if you've been, if you've been married to somebody who's struggling with alcohol for a long time, you have been responding to crisis after crisis and thing after thing forever. Right?

[Caller]

Amen.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then so the way you said this, I want to challenge you on it. Well, now we got another hurdle. This is not just another hurdle.

[Caller]

No, it's big.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is the stop. Right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you have been working with somebody for a long time. Everything in this conversation has changed now. And the conversation changed to changes to now we have a, an hourglass, we have a clock that's ticking. And the doctors clicked it on for us. And so we're not talking about how you feel. If you really like this collection of bottle caps you've been keeping for, like, that, that ship is over. That ship has sailed out to harbor. We are now creating a life that I'm gonna have to inhabit because you're gonna be gone.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that looks like making sure. I got a home with four walls on it and I can pay bills. Right. And some of it you're going to. I, I remember sitting with somebody that I care about deep them and their house was full of stuff and I was trying to help them throw that, throw it away. This is several years ago. And I just finally stopped and looked at him and said, I need you to hear me say this. When you die, I'm going to throw all of this away. I can do it now or I can do it when you're gone. And there was a long, long pause and they said, you're going to have to do it when I'm gone. And I said, okay, I'm moving on with my day. I'm not going to spend another second here. I've already made that choice. But I'm not going to fight that in this moment. See what I'm saying? So I want you to.

[Caller]

He was not even used to that idea yet. It hadn't even been introduced.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right, right. So here's, here's what we're doing. We're reverse engineering this thing for the four walls. I, I, I hate to live like this, but this is the clock you've been given. I want to go 18 months and start working backwards. What does life look like? And you don't have to do a roof and siding and gut. You don't have to do all that at the same time. We're going to price each one of those things out. These things that we have to do so we can keep our house. These things that we have to do so we have transportation. You're going to have to have a job if you don't have any retirement.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. What's the, what's the financial status, Kimberly? Do you guys. I know you said you own your home outright, so there's no mortgage or anything on it, correct?

[Caller]

Yeah, well, I was, you know, in the earlier days, I was working to, you know, pay a little extra here and there because I'm the, you know, I'm the one that doesn't want to be in horrendous debt. Debt of any kind, actually. And he used to work a very, a very good job and part of it was an investment account that was like a retirement. Right. And. And he got to a point where he wanted to start his own business. He'd always wanted to do this because his family had done it and they had done it poorly and they fought and they divorced. But it still is a dream of his.

[Rachel Cruz]

And cash out the investments.

[Caller]

So over time, yes, he cashed out almost everything. So what's left he threw into a business without knowing how to run a business.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, I hear you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And Kimberly, you're not going to set that aside because you got emergency in front of you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Ye. What. What debt? What debt? I know. No, no, you're fine, you're fine. What debt? Do you guys have any at all? Any consumer debt, Credit cards, car loan?

[Caller]

No.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. We have no debt, no debt. Okay. And how much money are you.

[Caller]

Taxes and things like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Are you working, Kimberly? Do you work?

[Caller]

I was in order to pay off my hospital debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Yeah.

[Caller]

Horrendously huge. And I finally got that paid off in it. But it was very hard. It was just of how.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, how. How much?

[Caller]

Physically.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Okay. So not in a great position to work. Okay. What was he making a year? No.

[Caller]

What's he making now?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, to keep you guys.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Crap.

[Caller]

I should know this.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, it's fine. 30,000, 70,000. Do you have any rounds? Yeah, 30 something. 30 something. Okay.

[Caller]

Something.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And that's. And that's enough. Okay, so. And any investment. Sorry, I know you said he cashed out his to start the business. Do you have do you have any retirement? Okay, so there's no investments, no retirement. And does he, does he have life insurance?

[Caller]

Nope.

[Rachel Cruz]

Nope. Okay. Okay. So what I want you to do, Kimberly, is the silver lining from a financial standpoint all of this is you guys have no debt. I mean, you don't even have a mortgage. So it's. That in of itself is like, that's a relief. So what John was saying, the four walls. I want you to go and do a budget, Kimberly, and I want you to stay on the line and we're going to give you Financial Peace University and everydollar Premium, because I want you to start budgeting and I want you to know to the penny.

[Caller]

Now, I do have every dollar already.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, you do? Okay. So to know what you thank God.

[Caller]

For that, that has been like saving my, my emotional.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm so glad because I think if you have those numbers in front of you, of the things you have to do, you have to keep the lights on, the cell phone bill and your insurance, you know, food, gas in the car. You have all of that. And that's what you're going to have to look at, Kimberly, and say, okay, I have to at least make this right. When the time comes, I have to. I have to at least make this. And then I would not encourage you to sell the house or even to put in a ton of repairs. Right now I think you're fine. What I would do, and I wouldn't. Unless your roof is linking or something. But like for now and then, Kimberly, when the time comes, I want you to grieve. I want you to go through that process and don't make a big financial decision decision until about six months to a year. And if in two years, three years, you decide to sell the home and downgrade, take some of the equity, you can do that. But don't feel like you have to make these big decisions today. Today I just want your four walls covered between now and 18 months. I'm so sorry, though. I'm so sorry.