Money Turns Family Drama Into Financial Disaster

Summary

The Ramsey Show

Episode: Money Turns Family Drama Into Financial Disaster

Date: January 5, 2026
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman
Podcast Network: Ramsey Network

---

Episode Overview

This episode tackles the often-taboo topic of how family dynamics and personal choices can create major financial headaches. From manipulating relatives and complicated inheritances to messy family loans and generational pressure, Dave Ramsey and Ken Coleman field tough calls from listeners entrenched in financial and relational drama. Their advice zeros in on setting boundaries, staying firm with unreasonable loved ones, disentangling from harmful financial arrangements, and building strong, responsible money habits for future stability.

---

Key Calls & Insights

1. Trust Fund Manipulation and Difficult Parents

[01:04–07:40] | Caller: Jack from Little Rock, AR

• Background: Jack’s grandfather left a trust to his three children. Siblings received their lump sums, but Jack’s father (due to a history of poor money management) only receives annual payments, with the lump sum intended for Jack after his father passes. The father is now pressuring Jack to sign over the trust so he can spend it now, offering Jack $5,000 as a bribe (on a $250K–$300K sum).
• Discussion: Dave and Ken help Jack articulate that his father’s request is both illogical and rooted in past irresponsibility. They counsel Jack on setting boundaries, warning that no matter how kind or diplomatic Jack is, his father will likely react badly.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dave Ramsey [05:01]: “It's impossible for you to take a man that is this unreasonable and make him reasonable with one conversation. This unreasonable man is going to have an unreasonable reaction to your reasonable ‘no.’”
  • Dave Ramsey [06:48]: “Anytime you're setting a boundary with a boundaryless person, less is more.”
• Advice: Use a short, kind, clear script and do not get drawn into a prolonged emotional debate. Control only your own integrity and response, not his reaction.

---

2. Borrowing from In-Laws & Family Entanglement

[10:42–19:14] | Caller: Jeremy from Seattle

• Background: Jeremy and his wife borrowed $80,000 from her parents to put a manufactured home on their property. They’re paying back as agreed, but recently bought a financed four-wheeler for $6,000, upsetting the in-laws, who question their spending while repaying debt.
• Discussion: Dave diagnoses at least three major issues:
  1. Property Ownership: Never put an expensive building on land you don’t own.
  2. Borrowing from Family: Changes the relational dynamic; the borrower is slave to the lender.
  3. Asset Depreciation: Manufactured homes lose value and are a poor investment.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dave Ramsey [15:35]: “You guys have made a colossal mess. You violated about six things… This is not a cup of coffee and a pie.”
  • Ken Coleman [17:52]: “You can dig out of this, but it’s gonna get nastier if you don’t fix it now.”
• Advice: Sell the four-wheeler, clarify the repayment agreement, and consider selling the manufactured home to regain financial independence.

---

3. Spouse’s Hobby & Budget Misalignment

[22:25–25:56] | Letter from “Mary” in New Mexico

• Background: Couple are empty nesters on a strict cash budget, but husband insists on charging all golf-related expenses, disrupting the household’s tracking and leading to arguments.
• Discussion: To avoid conflict, Dave and Ken suggest the husband needs to include golf costs in the budget and track expenses—even if not paying in cash—while the wife may need to relax the “all-caps” aversion to golf.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dave Ramsey [24:11]: “There’s a difference between choosing to be responsible and choosing to play golf.”
• Advice: Agree on a defined golf budget as a line item; husband must track and control excess spending at the club.

---

4. Business Debt and Christian Ethics

[26:11–31:00] | Caller: Sarah from Detroit

• Background: Took out a disaster relief business loan (EIDL) for $25,000 that was not personally guaranteed and the business folded. Two lawyers said she’s not personally liable. As a Christian, she feels moral pressure to repay.
• Discussion: Dave clarifies that forgiveness written into loan terms isn’t unethical if you follow the contract. The call explores the emotional difference between genuine spiritual conviction and misplaced guilt.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dave Ramsey [27:31]: “If God tells you to do something, go do it. But if you’re just scared, nah, it’s the government. Tell them to stick it.”
• Advice: Only repay if there is a true spiritual conviction, not out of guilt or fear; otherwise, accept legal forgiveness.

---

5. Buying a Business Without Financial Foundation

[33:08–42:28] | Caller: Michael from Atlanta

• Background: 27-year-old wants to purchase his employer’s ice business and building ($1M total), but lives at home and only has assets in vehicles and savings.
• Discussion: Dave is blunt—the caller is not financially ready to buy or operate a business, has minimal assets, and should not seek massive loans without foundational stability.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dave Ramsey [39:03]: “Pass up on it. Let it go. Get in the ice business later when you get your act together.”
• Advice: Build personal stability, get debt-free, and gain operational experience before attempting to purchase or run a small business.

---

6. Recurring Credit Card Debt in Marriage

[44:51–51:31] | Caller: Liz from Nashville

• Background: Couple has $62,000 in credit card debt (plus $500K mortgage) despite years of following “baby steps.” Husband, age 41, continually accrues credit card debt even as Liz tries to pay it off.
• Discussion: Dave identifies this as a “person problem,” not a system problem. Both spouses must commit to the plan for it to work.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dave Ramsey [48:24]: “This is not a systems problem. This is a person problem. It’s a behavior problem.”
  • Dave Ramsey [51:22]: “Your hopelessness is not logical—unless you believe he’s really not going to stop, in which case you need to see a marriage counselor.”
• Advice: Combine finances, work together on a strict budget, and stay intense for one year to clear the debt—but both must be fully committed.

---

7. Starting a Family with Limited Finances/Visa Restrictions

[55:41–63:36] | Caller: Emily from New York

• Background: Young Canadian couple living in NYC, making $120K (potential for $170K+), have $30K student loans, high rent, and one income due to visa restrictions. Unsure if they’re financially “ready” for a baby.
• Discussion: Dave assures them that having a child on their income is do-able, especially given their history of saving and discipline. Life shouldn’t be put on hold indefinitely for work or finances.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dave Ramsey [60:42]: “If I woke up in your shoes and you guys both want a child and God wants you to have a child, I would go have a child. That’s what I would do.”
• Advice: Live your life; babies bring responsibility but don’t wait for “perfect” finances.

---

8. Budgeting, Home Ownership, & Debt Elimination

[66:11–72:42] | Caller: Malachi from Tucson, AZ

• Background: 23-year-old has paid off $110,000 on house debt in 6 months, now feels emotionally “stuck” with no cash reserves, some car and family debt remaining.
• Discussion: Malachi is advised he isn’t stuck—he’s making remarkable progress but lacks emotional feedback due to focusing just on the house. He should clear car and family debt, build a small emergency fund, then return to house payoff.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dave Ramsey [69:41]: “You’re making incredible progress and you’re living on nothing and applying all your money towards your goals.”
• Advice: Personal finance is 80% behavior, 20% knowledge; restructure payment snowball for emotional momentum.

---

9. Should Wife Become a Stay-at-Home Mom?

[73:39–75:02] | Caller: Devin from Kansas City

• Background: Does their budget support transitioning to single-income as wife considers staying home after their second child is born?
• Discussion & Advice: Live for several months on just one income before wife quits to confirm feasibility, put her entire income toward debt or savings as a test.

---

10. Generational Guilt and the Family Home

[97:58–105:18] | Caller: Melanie from Harrisburg, PA

• Background: Married couple owns a rental property where husband's mother (who manipulated him into providing housing, citing divine command) has lived for years with minimal rent. Now, the couple needs rental income but are constrained by guilt-tripping.
• Discussion: Dave says there is no biblical mandate to enable bad behavior. Manipulation via religious guilt is not valid. Husband must, kindly and firmly, set a time for her to move and cut the cord.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dave Ramsey [102:30]: “When they say ‘honor your father and mother,’ it doesn’t say honor their misbehavior.”
  • Dave Ramsey [102:38]: “She’s a travel agent for guilt trips.”
• Advice: Husband must have a solo, honest conversation with his mother, set a non-negotiable boundary, and help her relocate if necessary.

---

11. Debt-Free Scream & Success Story

[107:34–116:00] | Guests: Nathan & Brittany (Chattanooga)

• Story: Paid off $73,545 in 14 months (income: $80K–$100K). Previously “Ramsey-ish,” true intensity came after owing taxes and an unexpected car expense at the same time.
• Advice: Know your “why,” be intentional, communicate about everything, choose your hard—either the pain of debt or the pain of disciplined change.
• Quote:
  • Brittany [112:28]: “If we can do it, anyone can. All you have to do is make the hard choices. Because it IS hard.”

---

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Family Boundaries:

  “Setting a boundary with a boundaryless person, less is more.” (Dave Ramsey, 06:48)

• On Financial Entanglement:

  “Thanksgiving tastes different when you eat with your master.” (Dave Ramsey, 19:14)

• On Emotional Money Blocks:

  “Personal finance is 80% behavior and only 20% head knowledge.” (Dave Ramsey, 71:32)

• On Guilt and Manipulation:

  “She’s a travel agent for guilt trips. And your poor husband has been pushed around by her and then she plays the God card and God didn’t tell her that… That’s a complete load of crap.” (Dave Ramsey, 102:38)

• On Going All In:

  “I’m not a dream killer, but I love stepping all over nightmares.” (Dave Ramsey, 40:39)

• On Enjoying Money After Frugal Years:

  “Your frugal muscle is overdeveloped… You have to practice [enjoying].” (Dave Ramsey, 88:08)

• On Opportunity vs. Trap:

  “It’s not an opportunity, it’s a trap—with your current environment, Michael. You don’t have any money.” (Ken Coleman, 39:19)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:04: Trust fund call with Jack—navigating unreasonable relatives
• 10:42: Manufactured home & family loans—Jeremy’s in-law entanglement
• 22:25: Golf hobby & budget disagreement (“Mary”—envelope cash vs. club charges)
• 26:11: EIDL business loan & Christian ethical dilemma
• 33:08: Michael's (27yo) business buyout ambition & Dave’s reality check
• 44:51: Liz in Nashville—endless marital credit card cycle
• 55:41: Emily in NY—baby plans, visa limbo & financial transitions
• 66:11: Malachi, 23—massive home payoff, emotional “stuck” feeling
• 73:39: Stay-at-home test budgeting—Devin
• 97:58: Melanie—mother-in-law rental manipulation and biblical guilt
• 107:34: Debt-free testimony—Nathan & Brittany (Chattanooga)

---

Episode Takeaways

• Setting boundaries with irrational or manipulative family members may not end the drama, but is crucial for financial (and personal) health.
• Family loans and shared property can permanently damage relationships; avoid whenever possible.
• True change in money (and relationships) comes from clear communication, mutual commitment, and unambiguous, sometimes uncomfortable, boundaries.
• Financial success is less about specific math, more about daily behavior and emotional buy-in.

---

Resource Highlights

• Books: Total Money Makeover, Paycheck to Purpose, Rachel Cruze’s “Know Yourself, Know Your Money”
• Budgeting Tools: EveryDollar App (“Personalized plan, margin to move your plan forward”)
• Ramsey Solutions: Get Started Assessment, Ramsey Trusted program for real estate/insurance
• Popular Phrases: “Live like no one else, so later you can live and give like no one else.”

---

Closing Thought

“There’s ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that’s to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.”
— Dave Ramsey [126:44]

---

Transcript

[A]

This episode is filled with some of our best calls and advice. But unless you take what you hear and put it to work in your own life, you'll be stuck with the same money stress in 2026. So make a change and download everydollar.

[B]

Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you with your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality and host of Front Row Seat, one of our more popular Ramsey Network shows. He's my co host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Jack is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi Jack, how are you doing?

[C]

Well, thank you Dave and Ken, thanks for taking the call.

[B]

Sure. What's up?

[C]

Yeah, so basically my grandfather had passed away about five years ago and he had left a trust to his three children. And basically the way it had been set up is that after my father passed away, I would receive a lump sum. Each of those, each sibling got a lump sum payment from that trust. However, for my dad, he has been historically been bad with money. And it was set up for him that he would receive payments annually in the trust. And then once he passes away, I would receive the lump sum. And after, after this, he is basically saying that he wants to have me sign a document that releases the trust to him and he plans to spend the money. And he's threatening me by bribing me with $5,000 up front.

[B]

$5,000? How much is in the trust?

[C]

From what I understand, whenever my grandfather was still around, I believe his portion is between 250 and 300,000.

[B]

So you're going to try. He's asking you to trade $300,000 for 5,000 bucks.

[C]

From what it seems he has said that he wants to take that lump sum and he wants to renovate his house. Because he is 63 years old, he works as a lawyer and he wants to renovate his house. He wants to buy a new car and he claims that I will have the rest of the money. However, with his historic run of dealing with finances, I don't believe that there will be any money left.

[D]

Hey Jack. Hey Jack, quick question. You've used two words with us. You said threatened and bribe. What does that actually look like? I haven't heard any evidence of that.

[C]

I would say it's. It's definitely more so bribing him, just throwing out one time. He said the first time he said, I'll get you $10,000. Then the second time we had talked about it, he said that he would give me $5,000 up front.

[B]

Okay, so what kind of. I mean, I'm sorry. It's. It's just the math is not mathing. I mean, he's so illogical that he actually believes you would trade 5,000 for 250. That's just bizarre to me.

[C]

I totally agree.

[B]

What planet does he live on that he thinks you would do that?

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

I don't either. Okay, so you're using words like bullied and bribed with your own father. Irresponsible about your own father. Your grandfather thought he was irresponsible. So you're going to do this. You had already decided that before you called, right?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So how can we help, however.

[C]

Yes. I really just want to know how to navigate that conversation with my father because.

[B]

Okay, you want to know something that's impossible? It's impossible for you to take a man that is this unreasonable and make him reasonable with one conversation. That's not possible. Okay, so this unreasonable man is going to have an unreasonable reaction to your reasonable no. There's no way you can frame a no that this guy's gonna like it and he's gonna go, oh, thank you, son. I just love you so much. I'm so proud of you. That's what you wish would happen. There's no conversation that does that because of what you're dealing with on the other side of this. You know, it's like petting a crocodile and going, nice crocodile, nice crocodile. And hoping you don't get your arm bit off. Of course you're gonna get your arm bit off. It's a crocodile. So, you know, that's what we're dealing with. So I wish I could make this. Make you have a good dad, but you don't. And so what I can do is just give you the real. The real realistic expectation, which is you preserve your dignity, your courage, your kindness, your integrity. That's the only thing you have control over. You don't have control over his reaction. So you gently and kindly say, dad, Grandpa, put this in place. And I'm just going to abide by Grandpa's wishes. Thanks for asking. I'm sorry it doesn't work for me. And we're just gonna leave the thing set up like it is, but thanks for asking. I hope you can find another way to get your house renovated and get you a car, since you're a lawyer and all but. And I'll be cheering for you. Cause I love you. And he's still gonna go bonkers, isn't he?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. So 100% be expecting that anything less than bonkers, we'll call it gravy on the biscuit. We'll call it a bonus. But I'm counting on bonkers.

[D]

Yeah. Jack, I don't know if you've ever had surgery before, but I would say that your mindset here has got to be the same as going into surgery that you have to have. It's not fun, it's going to hurt, it's going to be some recovery time, but it absolutely has to happen. And on the other side of the surgery, you're going to be better off.

[B]

And there can be healing.

[D]

That's right. And I think you have to go into this going, there's just no way. I think Dave framed it beautifully. But as a response to what Dave said, you've got to understand this is one of those situations in life that was forced on you. You cannot control your dad or the situation he's put you in, but you got to do what's best for you. So that's the mindset. There's no way. This is not going to suck. But on the other side, you're going to be better.

[B]

Anytime you're setting a boundary with a boundaryless person, less is more. So this is a very short, concise conversation, okay? We're not going into a bunch of explanation or discussion of his character or the history of the family tree. We're not going to try to explain this to him. We're not going to go into a bunch of details. It's a simple thing. Dad, you know I love you, and I've thought about this, and I think I'm just going to stick with Grandpa's plan and that's what we're going to do. So I hope it works out for you and I'll be cheering for you. Just that. That. That's what, 10 seconds maybe of audio? And that's all you need. The longer you talk, the more you're going to mess this up. So I use that when over 35 years now of running a business, on the rare occasion that we actually have to let someone leave this place, we don't have long discussions. We've had long discussions up to that point, trying to get them better. But the day they leave, it's like the decision has been made, today's your last day. That's it. We don't go into why. Because why has been discussed in the 90 days previous. The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed. Living on a budget, staying out of debt and building wealth intentionally. Now here's the deal. Most banks make their money. When you don't do that. They're fine if you stay broke and frustrated. And that's why I recommend Fairwinds Credit union. They actually want you to win with money. Their smart bundle gives you a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the new Ramsey be weird debit card that says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. It's not just a card, it's a statement. Because every time you use it, it says you control your money. Your money doesn't control you. So this year, stick to your plan, don't chase gimmicks or points and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit Fairwinds.org Ramsey to take control of your money and stay weird. Fairwinds is federally insured by the NCUA Foreign. Coleman Ramsey, personality, best selling author, is my co host. Today. Seattle is on the line. Jeremy is calling. Hi Jeremy, how are you? Good.

[C]

How are you?

[B]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[C]

Good.

[A]

Hey.

[C]

I just started your book this last month with my wife. We are on baby step number two and long story short, we basically borrowed some money from a family member, my father in law and mother in law about a year and a half ago and we put a manufactured home there, used the money for that. We're paying them back pretty quickly. It feels like made a dumb decision again before I started your book and went out and bought a toy. And it's kind of putting some stress on our relationship with them. They're thinking we shouldn't be spending money when we owe them money. And I just wanted your advice on that.

[B]

What'd you buy?

[C]

Four wheeler.

[B]

Okay, what'd you spend on the four wheeler?

[C]

Six thousand. And we financed it, but it's almost paid off now.

[B]

Okay, and what do you owe them?

[C]

About 80,000.

[D]

Oof.

[B]

So they loaned you the money to buy a house, put a manufacturer, a trailer.

[C]

Yeah. Yes, sir.

[B]

On their property?

[C]

Yes, sir.

[B]

So you have an $80,000 trailer and you don't own the dirt?

[C]

Correct.

[B]

Oh God. Okay. Wow. Well, what are the terms? I mean, did you have a payment system with them? A certain amount you're supposed to pay them every month?

[C]

Yes. Yeah. And we've been paying that on time every time. Obviously you were not.

[B]

Well, not obviously. I mean, you've never been late and yet they expected that you would prepay them rather than do anything else. Why did they expect that?

[C]

You know, that's a good question.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

You know, our thing is we have a pretty good relationship with them and things just kind of got awkward. So do I sell the toy, take a loss and move on? Do I? You're. You're the expert. I guess that's my question.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I'm curious to know if there was any pressure that you felt at any time or your wife felt at any time to a borrow 80 grand from them to then get a pre mod trailer and put it on their property. Was there pressure there or was it just they threw it out? You guys love the idea.

[C]

So basically we sold our house and had some money set aside to do this project and it was just an idea that got thrown out there and nobody thought it would really work. We were able to make it work and we were pretty excited about that. There wasn't too much pressure there. It will most likely be our property at some point. So there wasn't too much for us on, on worrying with that.

[B]

Okay. There's two layers to this situation. The first layer is the simple four wheeler question. Okay?

[C]

Yes, sir.

[B]

On the simple four wheeler question, I think you and your wife need to go over, ask them if you can come over and talk and have a cup of coffee and bring a pie. And you just sit down and say, we thought that we had a monthly payment arrangement with you and as long as we were doing that, we thought we were doing the right thing somehow. There must have been more to the agreement than we understood because if we go on vacation, you're going to be mad. If we buy a four wheeler, you're going to be mad. But we didn't know that was part of the deal. And so we need to get on the same page about what our deal is. Because I thought our deal was I pay you monthly payments and you're happy, but now it's I pay you monthly payments and I have to check with you before I buy anything. And that's not a deal I'm okay with now. Agreed. You shouldn't have bought a stupid four wheeler in this situation. Okay, that's an aside and you can say that I made a mistake, I shouldn't have bought the toy. But I'm trying to figure out what our boundaries are here so that I don't upset you again into the future and basically call them out because they're out of line. You did a stupid thing, but they don't have a right to be upset about it because you're kept your part of the deal. Yep. I'm telling you, sell this four wheeler and get yourself out of debt with that money. Yeah, definitely do that. But that not paying towards them. Okay, that's layer number one. That's the. The easiest layer. Do you want me to get harder, Jeremy, or do you want me to leave you alone?

[C]

Nope. I want to hear it.

[B]

Okay. You guys have made a colossal mess. You violated about six things here and you're going to get. It's not going to turn out well, I'm afraid. Colossal Rule number one is you never build a property. You never put $80,000 worth of collateral on someone else's dirt. I don't care whose dirt it is, period. Because you do not have control of the situation. If they are in a car wreck in the middle of the night, fall asleep at the wheel, and these sweet little people hit somebody head on and they get sued for $200 million, the dirt under your trailer is gone in that lawsuit and they have no control over that. And you have no control over that. So you have set yourself up. And I've seen this a thousand times in 30 years of doing what I do. Not owning the dirt under your trailer is a massive mistake. Number one, borrowing 80,000 from your in laws for anything for any reason is a massive mistake. Number two, the borrower is slave to the lender. And as you have figured out, masters change the rules sometimes you're the slave. Rule number problem. Number three, you spent $80,000 on something that's going down in value, not up in value. Trailers go down in value, they don't go up in value. So in 15 years, what's this $80,000 trailer worth? Nothing. You're burning $80,000 on your kitchen table every night a little bit at a time. So you got a massive entanglement of mess here. And I don't know exactly how to get you out of that one as easy as I did the other one. This is not a cup of coffee and a pie. But if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to start trying to unravel this thing. If I can figure out a way to honorably do that. I'm guessing the trailer won't bring 80 grand now, right?

[C]

No.

[B]

Okay, what would it bring now?

[C]

It might get close. You know, there's. There's not a lot of them around to get a good idea.

[B]

But okay, if you can. If you can get out of it, I would sell it and start fresh renting somewhere and give them their money back and keep you from owning an asset that's going down in value sitting on dirt that you don't own. Man. This is just. It's. You're playing Russian roulette, and there's three bullets in the gun, not one.

[D]

Yeah, Dave, you. You. Yeah. He's been sufficiently burned. I'll offer some salve and the sav. I got permission. No, you're right. No, you couldn't be more right. I just can't add anything to it other than to say this, walk away from this, to realize it could have been way worse, and this thing can get nastier if you don't fix it now. And I. I could not say that enough. You can dig out of this, but I would start digging quickly and make all these changes. And you'll look back on this and go, I'm glad I did it.

[B]

It's gonna get worse. The relationship's gonna get worse. The finances are gonna get worse. Everything's gonna get worse. There's nothing in this story that turns out good. And the problem is. To stop and say that out loud is like walking up in the middle of the town square and saying, the emperor has no clothes. Everybody's gonna look at you and go, but wait. Your wife's gonna look at you, their precious little daughter, and go, my daddy would. Oh, yes, he did. He already bitched about the four wheeler. Of course he to do it. It's coming. You know what your daddy's going to do, right? Okay, I already know what your daddy's going to do. I read his mail.

[D]

Well, Dave, this makes me think of the classic line in the wedding vows, leave and cleave. There is a psychological reason for doing that. There's wisdom in that phrase, not living on their land.

[B]

Well, mom and dad have got some money and they've got some land, and they were trying to do something nice, and they did a good thing. In a dumb way.

[D]

Yeah, that's a great way of putting it.

[B]

You know, how could you do this differently? All right, I'll tell you how you could do it differently. You carve up your property, you put a property line on it, and you give a parcel of it to your daughter. And if you want her to have an $80,000 property, have her build something on there that will go up in value and give her $80,000 of your money. Don't loan it to her and make her your slave and change the quality of your relationship. Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with Your master. It changes the relationship. And you're not the exception. No one. None of you out there. So mom and dads quit doing a nice thing, a good thing, a bad way, and causing more problems than you were. Blessings. Yeah, that's right. That's poor Jeremy. I'm sorry, Jeremy, but you called and you asked. This is the Ramsey Show. If you've got collectors breathing down your neck and you're drowning in credit card debt, you don't need another debt relief company trying to sell you sunshine and unicorns. You need real help. And Guardian Litigation Group is the real deal. They're not a call center. They're actual attorneys. That means when a creditor tries to sue you, they can step into the courtroom and fight back. Now listen, Debt settlement isn't pretty. It's not a magic wand. And I'd prefer you get out of debt the old fashioned way. But if you're staring down bankruptcy and you've got no other way out, Guardian gives you a path to clean up the mess without paying a dime up front. Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55,000 people across the nation settle over $600 million of debt. So if you're ready to take back control of your life and stop cringing every time the phone rings, go to guardian lit.com Ramsey that's guardian lit.com Ramsey.

[D]

Paid endorsement attorney advertising Guardian Litigation Group LLP not available in Minnesota and Oregon. Results vary and no specific outcome is guarant. Debt settlement may negatively affect credit and not all creditors will negotiate or settle. Savings vary and may be taxable. Please review our website terms for more information.

[B]

The Ramsey question of the day is brought to you by why Ramsay Refi. If you've made student loan mistakes with zeros on the end, hey, we're not judging you. We are saying do something about it. Contact Y Refi. They were created specifically for people with defaulted private student loans. If that's you, go to y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[D]

Today's question comes from Mary in New Mexico. My husband and I have been listening to you for 30 years. Being empty nesters now, we have found that we had to pull back the reins a little bit. Went back to using an envelope for groceries. We also eliminated credit cards and mostly used cash. The one expense that my husband refuses to use cash for is golf in all caps with an exclamation point. He has been an avid golfer for 40 years, being the main breadwinner he feels somewhat justified in deserving to continue this hobby. He never remembers what he spent. So we're constantly having to adjust for extra money that's coming out because he changes everything at the club and then we get an invoice. Could I please get your expert advice on dealing with this type of scenario? Well, I was a member of a local club for a while. We had. One of the things I'm very thankful for. We had a corporate membership at a great golf course here, and Stacy and I had to put this in the line item. And so he's got to put this in the budget and if it's not going to be cash, because I understand the way these clubs do this. He knows what it costs to golf. He knows what it costs to get a cart if they adding that in. He knows what the taxes are on that. He also knows what it costs for a Twix at the turn or a turkey sandwich. So these are things that are all very controllable. And he's got to play ball. And so, you know, you know what it costs to play golf beyond your membership or whatever. So he's got to put that in there. And you guys got to come to an agreement on this is what we can spend. As we're having to tighten up right now. He doesn't have to give up golf, but he's going to have to maybe cut back. So maybe that's rounds. Maybe it's a drink after the round. Whatever it is, he's just got to be disciplined with it. And it's pretty easy to track. He's just not wanting to do it because he's never had to. That's my take, Dave. I don't know what you think about that.

[B]

Well, there's a difference between continuing the hobby and, you know, she, she wants him to quit. I mean, feels like things dripping in I hate golf wife language.

[D]

Yeah, the all caps give us away. Gives it away.

[B]

And so, you know, there's a difference between. He has a right to continue his hobby because he's the red winner. He says that's different argument than, hey, you know, you can't buy all the expensive stuff and play.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

You know, because we're having to tighten up. And so we're going to. We can put a line item to this and we can manage it if he chooses to be responsible. There's a difference between choosing to be responsible and choosing to play golf.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

I mean, you can be irresponsible. You can be irresponsible. Not bother with it, which is what he's doing. And so I think step one for him, for you, is not try to get him to quit. It's try to get him to reign in the additional expenses, whether you're buying food or drink or whatever he's doing while he's there. And, you know, what can we do to limit that and put a number on it that we're not going to go over? And that's very doable. It's very doable. So. But I think there's more going on here than the.

[D]

Golf.

[B]

Capital letters, all exclamation points. Right. Is pretty much, I hate golf, wife language. I saw it, you know, so no question about it.

[D]

And in his defense, you don't walk into the golf club with your cash envelope. It's. It's.

[B]

Well, a lot of courses don't. I mean, if you're a member of something. They won't. No, they don't. You have to sign.

[D]

Yeah, that's exactly how it works.

[B]

That's the only way to handle it. So.

[D]

But it is trackable.

[B]

But it doesn't mean you can't. That's right. Manage what you're spending. And you should. So he needs to be responsible and. And you probably need to light up. Lighten up on the golf hating. Sarah is in Detroit. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[A]

Hi. Thank you.

[B]

What's up?

[A]

Well, I've got a question around an Eidl business loan that was taken out. It's an economic disaster relief loan in 2020 for a business that has since gone under due to the pandemic. I spoke with two attorneys. They both said I don't owe on the loan because it wasn't personally guaranteed and it was the name of a business that went under. But I am a Christian and I'm. I'm grateful for the blood of our Messiah. Hallelujah.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

And God's law seems. God's law seems to say differently. So I'm going to negotiate with the sba. I've been given the paperwork to do that, and I'm just wondering if you have any advice on how to negotiate and then depending on what that number is, how I should go about paying it.

[B]

You don't have the money?

[C]

Well, I don't.

[A]

I don't have the money for the whole loan. No. But I have.

[B]

How much is the whole loan? How much is the whole loan?

[A]

Okay. 25,000.

[B]

All right. And $25,000?

[A]

Yeah, I have 15. Actually, it's 24.

[B]

Okay. And you have how and you have how much money?

[A]

15,000.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

My emergency fund.

[B]

Okay. Well, there's two or three issues. Okay. From an ethics standpoint, the government gave you money for disaster relief for your business that failed, and it's not got a personal guarantee, and you're not liable. The government forgives that. From an ethics standpoint, you are not doing anything wrong by just simply accepting the forgiveness, because this is not a bank loan from a. The bank is not going to get tagged on this if it's got an SBA label on it, the SBA is going to cover it, because this is a government thing that, you know, is waived in this instance. Okay. So, you know, another example would be, like, if you have a federally insured student loan and you become permanently disabled, the terms of those loans are. They are forgiven. If you're disabled, you are not under an ethical Christian obligation to pay it anyway. The term of the loan was that it's. It's forgiven if you're disabled. The terms of the loan on this are. It's not personally guaranteed because it was given to a business in the midst of a. A disaster relief situation, and therefore, they did not require personal guarantees because it was a. It was virtually a grant is what it was, and it didn't work. Obviously, it did not turn your business around. So I. I'm gonna ask you to spend some time in prayer and make sure you're hearing from God, not childhood guilt about what your Christian obligation is here. If you feel like. If you really feel like God is telling me to pay this, then for goodness sakes, pay it. Okay. Not really, but if you feel that's okay. I mean, I've been in those situations. I've paid stuff that. You know, people look at me like I'm a nut for having gone back and paid that, but I just. I felt like God said to do it. And then other times, I don't feel any tinge of guilt at all. I'm just done, you know? I mean, this is the deal. This way the deal went, sorry, good luck. And that's where this one could fall. But I never step in between someone and the Holy Spirit. That's a dangerous place to stand.

[A]

Yeah, I guess I should give you a little more context. I got to a point where I was three months default because I didn't feel like I did. Oh, I don't lie. I do my best to follow God's law. And I got on the phone with the sba and I learned everything that they do and how it wasn't personally Guaranteed. And it goes. My information goes to the Department of Treasury. After, like, they just write, SBA lets it go. Department of treasury gets my information. And then I started to feel like fear, and I know that's not of God. And then I talked to my family and started to get advice just from other people. And. Yeah, then I actually, they suggested I called you.

[B]

Well, I think you're telling me you're doing this out of a, an emotional guilt trip, not out of a holy spirit leading. I think that's what you just said.

[A]

Yeah, I think so.

[B]

I'm not sure. But again, I'm not gonna stand between you and the Holy Spirit. If God tells you to do something, kiddo, you go do it. Dave does not get a trump card on that. I don't get to lay down on that hand. So you got, you gotta figure that one out. But if you're just scared, nah, it's the government. Tell them to stick it. That's pretty easy for me. This is the Ramsay show. Finally, mortgage rates have dropped. And you know what that means. People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their home buyer edge program gives you peace of mind. In a wild market, you can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com to get started today. That's ChurchillMortgage.com this is a paid advertisement. Homebuyer edge and seller guarantee are available.

[D]

For qualifying borrowers and select loan types.

[B]

Only and not available in all states or locations.

[D]

NMLS ID 1591 NMLS consumeraccess.org/housing lender.

[B]

Ken Coleman. Ramsey personality number one best selling author of the book Paycheck to purpose is my co host. Today. Michael's in Atlanta. Hi, Michael. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[C]

How you doing, Mr. Ramsey?

[B]

Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help you.

[C]

So I just want to say appreciate everything you do for everybody. I grew up in a, in a, in an awesome family, awesome life and everything. And my two financial advisors were Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey. So I'm honored to be able to finally get her into a phase of life where I can make this phone call and, and be able to talk to you. So I thank you for that.

[B]

Well, thank you.

[C]

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, say it again.

[B]

I said we're honored to have you. How can we help?

[C]

Yes, Sir. So I'm 27 years old and I work for my family business. My second job is an ice business and the owner is wanting to sell within the next two years or so. The sale will come with the building with existing tenants and the ice company itself. He's asking for $1 million. As a married 27 year old renting from my parents with no meaningful form of assets besides vehicles and what we have in our savings and investment, what do you think the best way that I can get a loan that big for that size? Me and my wife currently are living at my parents house. We have no form of debt besides, or thanks to you, no debt. We worked hard to pay off all of our student loans and credit card debt and everything. We do have one car loan right now that we're trying to knock out as quick as possible. But like I said, no form of assets or anything like that.

[B]

Well, I'm a little bit confused about the part where you listen to me for years and then you just asked me how you can borrow a million dollars.

[C]

Right, exactly.

[B]

That's a little bit inconsistent, isn't it? I mean, you kind of know I don't do that, right?

[C]

Yes, it is. And with the other previous callers I was thinking maybe I should change the word from borrow to be able to obtain the business for that price. So I do apologize. Let me back up. What is the best route for somebody in my shoes to be able to obtain the business?

[B]

Okay. Because you, well, I mean there's. You don't have a million, no banks gonna loan you this. Okay. Like you said, you don't have the assets, you don't have the income, you're not bankable. A banker would just, it would take about a, I don't know, less than four or five seconds to make the decision. You're not going to get that. So even if we all thought that that was a good idea, and we don't. So what I would do is the first thing I do is separate the business from the Real estate.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Let him keep the real estate, and the business can be his tenant until you save up the money to buy the real estate later. You could do that out of the business. So what do you think of the million dollars? What do you think the real estate is actually worth market value?

[C]

So we haven't dug into the books or anything?

[B]

No, I didn't ask you about the books. I asked you about the real estate. What's the real estate worth? The building?

[C]

Approximately $750,000.

[B]

Okay, so you're wanting to buy an ice business for 250,000 bucks.

[C]

Sounds right to me.

[B]

Okay, so it should be making a profit after everyone is paid, including the manager of the business. After everyone's paid market wages, that business should be making a profit of 60 or $70,000 a year. Is it.

[C]

Okay? Oh, you haven't gotten into the book profit.

[B]

You haven't gotten into the books yet. You don't know.

[C]

Correct. Correct. This is. This is something I want to try to figure out a route before to see if it was even attainable before I dug into the books.

[D]

Let me ask a real quick question. Okay.

[C]

Yes, sir.

[D]

If you weren't working for this owner and they had not approached you about selling, they want to exit, would you be wanting to get into the ice business if you weren't currently working for them and this wasn't an opportunity?

[C]

I believe so.

[B]

Okay, so, like, if you weren't working there anymore, a year from now, you'd be going, I got to figure out a way to get in the ice business?

[C]

I believe so. I think it's very lucrative, and I see a lot of opportunities in the. In the ice world itself. So I'm glad I was introduced to it very young. And I think. I think my answer would still be yes.

[B]

That's not your family, though. That's the. Your family is a different business.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

Okay. I want to make sure I got that straight. Okay. All right. Now, here's what I would tell my son if he was your age and came in and sat down at my kitchen table. I would say you need a better. You need a stronger personal financial foundation before you start talking about buying and running a small business. Buying and running a small business will take the bone marrow out of you. It will drain you. It'll squeeze you like yesterday's dish rag, man. Cause it becomes a mistress if you're not real careful. Because you have to put everything, all your emotions, all your intellect, everything into it. And you got a car payment and live with your mama. So you're not ready to do that. So you guys need to get out on your own and be debt free and have a solid foundation in your life before you start talking about buying business. This is what I would tell my own son.

[C]

Okay. And can I ask you a question correlating to that?

[B]

Sure.

[C]

I see this opportunity, and I could see this opportunity as a long term investment, a long term. A great thing in just long term down the road and everything I'm wanting, I'm not wanting to pass up on this opportunity as it comes to me right now and in my brain, you could tell me if I'm wrong. You're wrong.

[B]

I just told you you were wrong. I just told you not to do it. Pass up on it. Pass it. Let it go. Let it go. Get in the ice business. Later when you get your freaking act together. You don't have your act together yet. About all you're good at so far is talking yourself into this. Yeah.

[D]

It's not an opportunity, it's a trap.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

With your current environment, Michael, you don't have any money.

[B]

You have a car payment. You live with your parents. I'm telling you, man, you really got to get out. You got to get out and get on solid ground to have a chance of making it in business. Business is hard. It's hard. And you don't do it from your daddy's basement. It's hard. And you don't do it with a car payment. You know, it's not. You need to get a solid, solid foundation. And I don't think we can stop you. You got your foot on the pedal. You're heading off the cliff. Nobody sign, bridge out, bridge out, bridge out. I don't care. I don't want to miss a chance. I'm taking the jump.

[D]

It's a chance to go swimming, Dave.

[B]

That's it, man.

[D]

That's the metaphor there.

[B]

We can't stop you, so have at it, son. But I wouldn't do it. I'm telling you I wouldn't do it. I think you're going to have plenty of times in your life to get into business and do it from strength, not from weakness. And you need to build some strength to do that. That's what. But it doesn't affect me. Honey, if you want to do it, you go do it. But you ask what we would do. And we love you and we want you to win. I told you exactly what I tell my own son. Who I want to have a great life and prosper just like I want that for you. So you do what you want. But I don't think you're in a position to do this right now. And I would not do it. I'm not a dream killer, but I love stepping all over nightmares. I love kicking a nightmare out the door.

[D]

Yeah. Here's a quick message for listen, we've all been your age and bright eyed, bushy tailed, excited about what looks like an opportunity. And this is a situation. Michael, if you were to jump into this in your current environment, you wouldn't even be able to be fully focused. Like Dave said, you need to be on a small business because of this financial stress, you're not in a position to where this thing can take care of you. And I didn't hear enough evidence either. And this is a positive, I'm not piling on here. Didn't hear enough evidence that he understood the business.

[B]

Oh, he doesn't. Yeah.

[D]

And that he could truly grow the business. In order to say I could actually run the business. I'd like him to prove to the current owner that he, through his efforts, Michael, we're talking about, can grow the business.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, scary. I would sit down and talk to the current owner. If you want to do this, Michael, here's a way to salvage the idea, I guess and say, you know, put me in leadership role for the next two years. That's right. And I can get out and get, I can get my personal finances and straightened out. And then I want, and then I want to talk to you. I'll take an option to buy and then I'll talk to you about exercising that option. But I'm not bound to it, not contractually.

[D]

Love that conversation.

[B]

And you can have, you'd be sitting there, learn the business inside and out. You may learn, you will learn a lot more about it than you know now. And you may learn the actual valuation is off. Yeah.

[D]

And that's such good advice. I hope everybody's listening to that because that actually creates an opportunity. Doesn't mean it's a good opportunity. But right now what you have is not an opportunity. If you go the Dave route there now of a sudden, it becomes an opportunity and then have the option to choose to take the opportunity. And that's what I like about that. There might be some sweat equity in that plan too. If he helps grow the business.

[B]

The best business deals I have ever done in my life are the ones I passed on.

[D]

That's so true. That's good.

[B]

They're the best ones. Yeah. This is the Ramsey Show. Dave, we got A lot of calls.

[D]

On this show where life happens.

[B]

One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of.

[D]

Your income so the bills still get.

[B]

Paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff, Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family. Don't wait.

[D]

It's fast, it's easy, and it could.

[B]

Make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, Ken Coleman. Ramsey personality, best selling author and host of Front Row Seat, a big hit on Ramsey Network. He's my co host. Today Liz is in Nashville. Hi, Liz, how are you?

[A]

Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

[B]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[A]

I was calling because with me and my husband combined, we have a debt of 552,000. That includes our mortgage. But besides the mortgage, most of that is his. We're following your baby steps. We've been following it all year, but it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere. And if anything, right now we're back at the same amount that we had at the beginning of the year. I just don't know what to do. I don't know what to do anymore.

[B]

I'm sorry. How could you get back into debt when you're getting out of debt? I'm confused.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. Well, we've had situations with our cars come up, and then he loves to use his credit cards for anything that comes up.

[C]

So.

[B]

Okay, so we're going into credit card debt while we're trying to get out of debt. So he's not really trying to get out of debt. He's running business as usual. And you're trying to get out of debt?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have $11,000 of that. That is mine. Even. Even myself right now, I just. I can't seem to get out of it, and I'm physically.

[B]

You said 562,000. How much of that is mortgage?

[A]

500,000 is mortgage.

[B]

Okay, what's the 62,000?

[A]

So 11,000 is mine, and then there's not a mine.

[B]

You're married. The $11,000 on what?

[A]

It's basically just credit cards.

[B]

Okay, so you have 11,000 on credit cards. What else is out there? Out of the 62?

[A]

It's all credit cards.

[B]

You have $62,000 in credit card debt. I'm sorry, you don't have a car payment.

[A]

That's true. Just one car payment. We have a. We have $1,000 left on it.

[B]

Okay, you owe $1,000 on a car, and what do you owe on your student loans?

[A]

We have no student loans. I paid off my car.

[B]

Okay, so you basically have $62,000 in credit card. $61,000 in credit card debt. And what's your household income?

[A]

I make 82 and he makes 80.

[B]

Okay, so $162,000 with a $500,000 mortgage. And how long ago were you zero credit cards debt?

[A]

Well, I was at zero credit cards last year. He's always had credit cards debt.

[B]

How long have you been married?

[A]

We've been married for five years now.

[B]

Okay, so when you're married, it's all hours. Understand me? Okay, so you were never at zero because he's always had credit cards. Because we have had credit cards. Because you are married to Mr. Credit Card.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, so you've been married five years, and we have always had credit card debt. How much credit card debt did he come into the marriage with?

[A]

I think at that point it was around maybe 70,000.

[B]

So it's maintained for about the last five years? About the same, yes. Okay, so in his past, he overspent, which is what the credit card came from. But we're just going to. Okay, so how old are you guys?

[A]

He's 41 and I'm 30.

[B]

Okay. All right. Well, this is not a systems problem. This is a person problem. It's a behavior problem. Okay. So your system of getting out of debt is not going to work until both of you decide you're going to get out of debt. He has not decided that. And so you got, you know, you have a marriage issue. To sit down and talk to your husband and say, I want to get on the same page. I want us to get out of debt. And you can't tell me you want to get out of debt unless you put all the credit cards on the table and cut them up right now.

[A]

Yeah, we actually did that this weekend.

[D]

Two quick questions. Give me quick answers here. How long have you been trying to do the baby steps?

[A]

Since the beginning of this year.

[D]

Okay. And then do you guys have separate finances? I'm guessing you do. The way you're talking.

[A]

Yeah. Yes, we do.

[B]

And then.

[D]

And then one other one I forgot. Does he use the credit card as Just all of his expenses, and he's under the guise, I'm going to pay it off at the end of the month, but he never does. Is that what's going on? He's running everything through it.

[A]

He was, yeah. Not anymore.

[B]

Why did he agree to cut them all up last weekend?

[A]

I think it's because, you know, he's 41, and I'm just. I'm disappointed. I mean, I just. I can't take it anymore. You know, I have never had debt, and I've even racked up 11,000.

[B]

Okay, wait a minute. Stop a minute. Okay, I get all that, but he cut up the credit cards last weekend. And then you called me and said, he keeps going into credit card debt. But it sounds like this guy turned the corner last weekend, said, I'm getting out of debt. I cut them all up. I'm confused about what you're upset about.

[A]

I guess because I didn't. I thought the number was lower than what it is.

[B]

But you knew that last weekend.

[A]

Yeah, but I'm at a point where I don't know what to do. I can't pay off what we owe. I just don't.

[B]

Yes, you can. You make $162,000. You only need $62,000 to pay all this off. So you live on 100, and you are debt free in one year. Voila. It's fairly easy. It's $5,000 a month, and you are debt free in one year. The two of you sit down and do a budget together. Combine your stinking finances and get on the same page and go. We're going to put $5,000 a month on this debt because you cut up the credit cards. And I'm over this. I can't sleep. I'm terrified. I'm done with all this irresponsibility, and you are, too. Thank you for cutting up the credit cards. Let's get on this and lock arms and let's attack this thing and be done. That's how you do it. You make enough money to pay this off in one year, easy. That's right. If you can't live on $100,000 in Nashville, something's wrong with you.

[A]

Well, I've tried. I've tried, and it just doesn't add up. With daycare, with everything. It just doesn't add up.

[B]

What's your house. No, I know what your house payment is. Yes, you have not done a budget because the math you're giving me is just not factual. Okay? You don't. You can pay daycare and eat and pay your house payment out of $100,000. That's $8,000 a month. Quit your 401k if you're getting a refund. Reset your W2s and quit getting a tax refund. Cash out whatever money you've got in savings, chop up the credit cards, and attack this. So there's something. Liz, your. Your hopelessness is not logical. Unless you believe he's really not going to stop, in which case you need to go see a marriage counselor. But if he is, if he's acting like I'm talking about. And he goes, yeah, now we're going to live on beans and rice. Rice and beans. We're going to stop the 401ks. We're not going on any vacations. We're going to sell so much stuff, the kids are afraid they're next. We're getting extra jobs. We're going to live on a written budget. The two of us are agreeing together. I just cut up the credit cards. Boom. 5,000 bucks a month goes on this. That's $60,000 a year. That leaves me 100,000 to live on. Shut up and do it. That's what it takes right there. You just got to go do this now. But you can't live in the past and be going, well, I get back to any. I don't care what. All that matters is the next 12 months. Game on, baby. Super Bowl. Put the ball in the end zone. Let's go. This is Dave Ramsey. We all want to know that the money we give to charity is doing something that matters, that it's making a real change, giving someone lasting hope. And here's one way to make sure of that. Give to preborn. They're the real deal. Proven, transparent and changing lives every day. I trust preborn, and you can too. They're on the front lines of the battle for life, partnering with clinics to offer free ultrasounds to mothers in crisis. Because when a mom sees her baby on that screen, something changes. It's not just a decision anymore. It's a person. And 80% of the time when a mom sees that ultrasound, she chooses life. Your $28 gift provides one of those ultrasounds, just 28 bucks, to be the reason someone chooses life. And at every clinic, the gospel is shared, giving moms the chance to choose life and find real hope in Christ. $28. One ultrasound, one heartbeat. One mom who realizes she's not alone. That's the kind of life changing impact your giving makes through preborn. Go now to Preborn.com Ramsey or call 855-601-2229. That's Preborn.com Ramsey. If you're wondering where all your money went in 2025, that's normal. And normal is broke. But next year can be different. Get a head start by downloading every dollar. Everydollar builds you a personalized plan and coaches you to find the extra money and then put it to work to beat debt and build wealth. We're going to show you hand to hand how to work the Ramsey plan. Exactly. Just answer a few questions and you'll find thousands of dollars on average in just the first 15 minutes. That's extra margin to move your plan forward. And every dollar still has the same great budgeting features to help you tell your money what to do. Hey, don't go another year feeling broken, stressed. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or on Google Play. Emily is with us in New York. Hi Emily. How are you?

[A]

Hi. Good. How are you?

[B]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[A]

So my question is about if my husband and I are financially prepared to start a family or if we should wait a little bit longer to be responsible.

[B]

You're ready?

[A]

Maybe. I see. Would you like the background or is it out of blanket anchor?

[B]

I'll take the background as a courtesy. But here's the thing. We don't tell people to not have babies due to debt. We tell them to not have huge numbers of babies. But you know, your first baby Start a family is a wonderful thing. It's the best thing you'll ever do while you're alive. And we don't tell people to not do that because of a certain dollar figure around it. But let's hear it, and I can give you some reassurance. How much debt do you guys have?

[A]

Okay, so we actually just have 30k of student loans that are completely interest free between the two of us.

[B]

Okay, cool. And what do you got? Is that your only debt?

[A]

That's our only debt.

[B]

And what is your household income?

[A]

So that's the issue. Is that. So our household income is $120,000 of a base salary with $50,000 in equity. And that's equity.

[B]

What's equity mean?

[A]

Equity means. So it's basically just registered stock units paid out quarterly. Because my husband works for a large company and that's part of their compensation package.

[B]

So he can cash those out. How often?

[A]

He can cash them out whenever. After they vest. Like there's a vesting period.

[B]

How long do they take for them to vest? That's what I'm asking.

[A]

This year it will vest at the end of the year, and then after that it's quarterly.

[B]

Oh, wow. Okay. So he makes $170,000 a year, including his stock bonuses.

[A]

Yes, but not this. He won't make that this year because he just started with that company. We're also both 24, so there's a few considerations. We just recently got married, but we're living in New York City and our rent is crazy. We don't have a car where our budget, despite the salary, is pretty tight. We don't have a lot of free cash every month and we haven't invested. That's the problem is that we actually had to move to the States for this job for my husband. So I had saved. Him and I together had saved about 150k before we moved here. And then I had to give up my job thinking I'd be able to get another job. But the immigration restrictions on what jobs I'm allowed to work have been so tight that it's been a few months and I have nothing. So before we moved here in our home country. Country I was making about 80k, and now I'm making nothing. And I feel like I'm just kind of sitting around at home. And I've always wanted to be a mom, and I've always wanted to stay at home mom. And we're like, do we just start a few years earlier than we thought we would? Or should I?

[B]

So Are both of you on a job? He's not on a green card. What's he on, HB1?

[A]

No, he's on a TN visa, which is because we're from Canada.

[B]

Okay, both of you are from Canada. So you're on a green card.

[A]

No. So we'll work towards the green card process eventually if we want to stay in the US Long term. But right now he's just on TN and I'm on a dependent spousal visa.

[B]

Okay, so what is the plan? Are you planning to stay or not?

[A]

We'll see what his business requires as it's more of a following a passion for work thing than it is, but immigrating somewhere specific. So if the company requires him here, we'll stay here. If they require him in Canada, we'll go to Canada. What can you do Right now that's another factor.

[D]

What kind of work can you do? What kind of work can you do that. Is immigration allowed? Let me, let me, let me rephrase. You told us there were a ton of restrictions, so I'm wondering what kind of work can you do that's not restricted?

[A]

Yeah. So to explain. So basically, you can get a visa if your work aligns with exactly what you did your undergraduate degree in. And I did my undergraduate degree in a science, and then I had been working in consulting and project management and a business role before we moved here. And none of those qualify for a visa in the United States. This has to be a very specific technical job. Like, my husband's an engineer, but project management does not qualify. But I don't have any technical science experience despite my degree. So I'm having a really hard time finding a job that I'm legally allowed to work because of. I never planned to move to the States.

[B]

Now, does he have, in this situation, does he have health insurance?

[A]

Yeah, he has really good health insurance.

[B]

Okay. All right. And it will probably transfer were you to go back to Canada and have great health insurance there, right?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So we'd be fine. And with all the health care stuff, it's more just. I don't. I hear all the time.

[B]

Oh, okay. So here's the thing.

[A]

You don't need anything.

[B]

Three years, three years from today, you will not be in this situation.

[A]

Correct. Once if we get a green, something's going to happen.

[B]

You're either going to get a green card or you're going to go back to Canada, right?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So. So this is a temporary. This income is a temporary thing. Based on all the story that you've told us. And if I woke up in your shoes and you guys both want a child and God wants you to have a child, I would go have a child. That's what I would do. And there's, you know, but do I want to be irresponsible and say neither one of us are working? No, I don't want to do that. Or do I want to be irresponsible and have, you know, 10 kids and we make $30,000 a year and can't figure out a way to feed them, that's irresponsible too. I wouldn't want to do that. But to have a child when you're making 120,000 and you've got an uncertain immigration process looking in front of you in the next five years, I would definitely live my life. I wouldn't put my life on hold for his company, which is in a sense what we're doing. And so no, I wouldn't do that. And I think you can afford it, I think you can make it and you know, you've got labor and delivery covered and you know, babies are not as expensive as everybody acts like it's not the end of the world. And I think you guys can pull this off. You do whatever you want to do. But that's what we would do at our house.

[D]

I, I just am so frustrated for I, I, I just bang my head against the wall metaphorically as I'm listening to this. You know, here's a law abiding Canadian, she wants to work. And the, the goofball rules that the government comes up with sometimes makes me want to just scream.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, because this is an opportunity to work. And if I understood her correctly, Dave, she can't do anything. Like she can't even go to Walmart and work.

[B]

Right. Right. She, unless it's something to do with her degree.

[D]

Right.

[B]

Her degree field. That's what she said. I don't, I'm not, I'm not knowledgeable.

[D]

About any, I am not either, but wow.

[B]

But it's, it is frustrating. But either way, bottom line is she ends up at home and that makes her say, I want to be a mom. Yeah. So maybe that may be a blessing.

[D]

I would tell them, get into every dollar, learn how to budget. Because I know that my parents, they scrap by. I don't know what your parents situation was, but they hardly had any money when I was born and they figured it out. And in some ways it's a, you know, that's a great way to get really responsible.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, it just. It makes you pay attention. And every dollar is a good way to pay attention. You're exactly right. You're going to make every dollar behave, you know, and you need to anyway. But especially wakes up when you got another human you're supposed to be responsible for. And that, that's a. That extra responsibility gives us that adults devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good. So we're going to do this. And, you know, I think she'd been very responsible asking the question. I kind of poked fun and said, yes, just go have baby. But, you know, But I think it's a responsible question. Which means they're going to be okay.

[D]

Yeah, well, you know, I loved is. She told us how much money they saved before coming to the States. This is a couple that has learned how to be disciplined. It's a lot of money. They saved $150,000.

[B]

Yeah. And he's making 170. They can make it on that. This stuff vests, you can cash out. Don't hold that stock and stack it up and starve to death, you know, Cash that stock in, take care of that baby. You'll be okay. Let's just go on. Everything's gonna be all right. I know life gets busy. The to do list never ends. But some things are just too important to put off, and making a will is one of them. That's why I recommend Mama Bear Legal forms, because I've seen it too many times. Families are grieving a loss, and on top of that, they're stuck in court fighting over paperwork, all because someone didn't take a little time to get their will in place. That's not what you want for your loved ones. You want peace. You want clarity. You want focus on what matters most, being present and leaving a legacy. With Mama Bear, you can create your will in just 20 minutes, right from the comfort of your home. It's simple, legally binding, and doesn't require an expensive attorney or hours of confusing paperwork. And I'll tell you, almost every person who uses Mama Bear says the same thing. If I would have known how easy it was, I would have done it sooner. So don't wait. Go to mamabearlegalforms.com and use the promo code Ramsey to save 20%.

[C]

That.

[B]

That's Mama Bear legalforms.com code Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Today. Malachi's in Tucson, Arizona. Hey, Malachi. How are you?

[C]

Pretty good. How about yourself?

[B]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[C]

Well, I have myself in kind Of a financial hole that I'm finding harder to get out of than I expected. I have debt that I'm trying to get rid of, but it just seems like it's not getting anywhere.

[B]

That's no fun. How much debt have you got, brother?

[C]

I have just about $260,000 debt.

[B]

Okay, give me a little breakdown on that. What's it. What's the categories?

[C]

So $250,000 of that is my house, and the other, I'd say about $10,000 is money that I owe family.

[B]

You say you don't owe anything on a car or a credit card or a student loan?

[C]

I do. I do owe $4,000 on my car.

[B]

Okay. All right. And what else? Anything else?

[C]

No, other than that. That's it.

[B]

Okay. And so what's your income, sir?

[C]

My income is at $90,000 per year right now.

[B]

Okay, so why can you not pay these bills with 90,000 bucks?

[C]

Well, I've been eating away at the debt of my home. In just over six months, I've paid $110,000 of it.

[B]

That's far from being stuck, sir. That's actually incredible progress.

[C]

Yeah, it just. It doesn't quite feel that way. I have no money in the bank of.

[B]

Well, you paid it all on debt.

[C]

Yeah, Yeah.

[B]

I mean, you're not gonna have money in the bank till you clear the debt. So I would back up and knock the $4,000 car debt and the $10,000 family debt out next before I pay any extra on the house. And then I would put an emergency fund in place of three to six months of expenses. And so I'd put 15,000 bucks in a high yield savings account that's sitting there just for emergencies. And so I just gave you $30,000 worth of an assignment. How quick can you knock 30 out?

[C]

Well, I would have to figure about six months, maybe less.

[B]

Yeah, that sounds right. Because you're living on nothing. You're game on. I mean, you've not got any lifestyle eating this up, or you wouldn't be making this kind of mathematical progress. Yeah, you're already pretty stinking frugal, aren't you?

[C]

Yeah, very much so.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm thinking basically top ramen every day.

[B]

There you go.

[D]

Yeah. I got a different word for you, Malachi. You don't have an elimination problem. You have an allocation problem. In our baby steps, the snowball is where you start here, and all of a sudden this momentum is going to just be unbelievable for just been going about it the wrong way.

[B]

Get the family and the Car off your back and emergency fund in place of 15,000, that's 30,000 worth. Then you go back and start talking about the house again. And you don't have to be so intense on the house. You're going to wander out of that house. You don't have to be quite so fired up about it. It's interesting though, the way you opened the phone call with us, it sounded like you were on the verge of bankruptcy or something, like you were stuck. And, and quite the opposite is true. You're making incredible progress and you're living on nothing and applying all of your money towards your goals. So, you know, you're way ahead of the game. You're far from stuck, sir. You're actually very successful.

[C]

Well, I mean, I'm 23 years old, just turned 23. And Phil, I just felt, I guess off that I have no money in the bank and you know, well, that's fair.

[B]

Okay, but, but you know, you're, you understand the progress you're making mathematically is pretty incredible.

[C]

I can see that. Yes.

[B]

Okay. All right. I want you to own that because that's, that helps you continue. Because if you feel like you're, you're, like you're doing something wrong, you know, you lose your emotional momentum to fight on through. But get the family off your back, not like they're on your back. They may or may not be. And get the car off your back. It is definitely there. Have 15,000 in the bank. I think that'll put you in a different emotional spot. And then let's turn up the lifestyle a little bit. Like have a life and slow down a little bit on paying off the house. I want you to pay it off in four or five years, three or four years. So like, I don't know, you're 27 with a paid for house in Tucson, Arizona. That would be a weird Gen Z thing to do. Lovely.

[D]

You know, I want to point out to our audience, we have a lot of new people joining us all the time. And I'm glad, Dave, that you're here on this call because this is an example of why so many years ago you created the baby steps to create not just financial momentum, but actually emotional momentum. And so here's a guy who's got his act together. The studio audience is shocked. There's a 23 year old, he's like, I feel like I'm stuck. Well, he's been putting all of his money on the biggest piece of his debt, which is the house. And therefore he has no emotional momentum. And that's why he presents this way. And that's the magic of what you created all these years ago.

[B]

The power of baby steps is you can go anywhere you want to go if you just keep walking.

[D]

Right.

[B]

It's just one step at a time.

[D]

He feels like he's in a hamster wheel right now because he's going at it the wrong order.

[B]

Yeah. And so knock out the little stuff. Start achieving some of the goals. So hang on, Malachi. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, the Total money makeover. About 10 million people have got it, so it's working. And the baby steps are outlined in that. And it'll show you exactly what to do, and it'll change that because Ken's right. What we figured out, Malachi, and for the rest of you, is that personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. The mathematics of wealth building, you learn by the sixth grade. It's not rocket science. This is not med school. You don't have to have a master's degree in finance and statistics to become wealthy. It's literally sixth grade math. So math is not our problem. It's not bothering to pay attention to the guy in the mirror and his decisions. Malachi is paying attention to the guy in the mirror and is making great progress. We're just going to redirect his progress a little bit so he feels it.

[D]

That's exactly right.

[B]

And the. And if you feel it, then that matters, because this is behavior. So it's all about feedback loops. The psychologist would tell you, so you're not going to keep going to the gym and not quit eating and not stay away from donuts. If you don't lose weight as a result, you're like, bring on the donuts. And I'm not sweating. If I'm gonna lose. If I'm gonna not lose weight or I'm gonna gain weight, I might as well enjoy it, you know? But if you go to the gym and you stay away from donuts, I'm talking to Dave. Then you can drop some poundage, right? And then you go, oh, well, that behavior resulted in a result that I like. So I get a feedback that's exactly. I get feed. Positive feedback keeps me doing it.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

That's a feedback loop. And that's. That's where all this comes from and where it goes to. So very, very good stuff. Devin is in Kansas City. Hi, Devin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[C]

Hey, thank you guys for taking my call.

[B]

Sure. What's up?

[C]

Hey, so me and my wife are wanting to know if we are in a good financial spot to make her a stay at home mom.

[B]

Can you live on your income?

[C]

I believe so. It's gonna be tighter than what we're used to. Well, course after, after budgeting it out and doing our every dollar budget.

[B]

What do you make?

[C]

After all, I make about $56,000 a year.

[B]

What she make?

[C]

She makes about between 20 and 25.

[B]

How many kids have you got?

[C]

So we've got one right now and one on the way due in about November.

[B]

Okay, well, daycare and some professional clothing is just about eating up her income.

[C]

Yeah, she works in a daycare, luckily, so.

[B]

Oh, well then it's not. Okay, then it's not. So she gets 25 plus she gets a deal on the baby daycare, right?

[C]

Yeah. And I think we would technically qualify for daycare assistance in Kansas, so that would help out as well.

[B]

I don't even know what that is, but okay, we have daycare assistance. All right, good.

[D]

That's another government program.

[B]

It sounds like a joy to me. But I don't guess you need that if she's going to be at home.

[C]

Yeah, correct. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So. So here's what you do, man. Run. Not only run your budget between now and the time she quits, live two or three months on your income without touching hers and apply all of her income or more to your baby steps and improve to yourself that you can live on your income. Just act like she doesn't have an income income and run your household because if she quits, she ain't gonna have an income. You better get used to that. This is the Ramsey Show. Foreign. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz.

[E]

The holidays are here.

[A]

Which means family time and giving back and remembering what the season is all about. And let's be real, it also means shopping, y'. All. If you're anything like me, December gets really busy and really expensive. It's harder to stay intentional with your spending. And that's why I love shopping on Amazon, especially this time of year. Named the lowest priced US online retailer for nine years running by Profitero, a third party analytics and research firm, Amazon's prices are up to 14% lower across top categories and beat competitors by up to 5% in key gift categories.

[E]

Between amazing deals, stress free shopping and.

[A]

Fast shipping, Amazon makes gift giving simpler.

[E]

The holiday season a little brighter and.

[A]

Helps me keep my budget in check.

[B]

That allows me to get back to enjoying the season. What more could a busy mom ask for? So for more information about Amazon's low.

[A]

Prices and easy, affordable holiday shopping. Head to Amazon today.

[B]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co host today. Thank you for joining us, America. If you like the show, you could help us. We could use your help big time. You want to help? Ready, set, go. Here's what you do. Click follow or share the show or subscribe or leave a five star review. Mama said if you ain't got anything nice to say, don't say nothing at all. So try that you little trolls and you know, have some fun out there people. Hey, spread the word. We appreciate it very much. We know that we were the fourth show in history on Apple podcasts to have a billion downloads. That was a year and a half ago. Joe Rogan was one of the first and one of the NPR's and then us and now we're at a billion and a half downloads where you get about a billion minutes watched on YouTube every 35 minutes. It's crazy. I mean, it's nuts. I mean the.

[D]

I need to call my mom right now.

[B]

Billions and billions of you are. I mean the number of hours and minutes consumed by you guys out there is crazy. Thank you so much. So we know you're there and we know you're spreading the word because the numbers are growing. So thank you and continue to share the show and spread the word and subscribe and follow and all that kind of stuff. It does help us because it changes the algorithms and pushes the show forward to other people to see it. Lauren is in New York City. Hi Lauren, how are you?

[A]

Hi. Good afternoon, Dave.

[B]

Afternoon. How can I help?

[A]

So I am at a point where I am drowning in credit card debt. I have about $70,000 in credit card debt currently and I can't really stop the bleeding. It's all due to attorney fees.

[B]

$75,000 in attorneys fees.

[A]

Also moving. I was in a situation where I was married and my husband was an alcoholic and substance abus. I had to get out of that situation.

[B]

So what did you spend to move.

[A]

About? I'm in Westchester, So it's about $9,000 to move between like broker fees.

[B]

So you spent 60,000 bucks on lawyer fees?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

For what?

[A]

I've had to fight tooth and nail for my child. It's been a very challenging court case at this point. He has, the court has ruled he cannot have to my nine year old daughter. But it's been contempt orders and violation. Not on my part, on his. And it's also there's an attorney guardian ad litem as well. So I'm paying Both of the attorneys. It's just been a very harrowing experience that we are thankfully going to come to the end of hope soon, by the end of the year.

[B]

Okay, so the bleeding is stopping then. And it will.

[A]

What a horrible thing you've been through.

[B]

I'm so sorry. What do you make? What's your income?

[A]

I make $90,000 a year, and I'm in a very expensive area that I'm not legally allowed to leave. I am currently working at a nonprofit organization, and I can make more money. I have a doctorate in physical therapy, but I am tied to my job for the next two and a half years because I have extensive student loans, totally in the amount of $260,000, and I'm in public service loan forgiveness, and I only pay 4, 14amonth. So after that, my loans will be forgiven. So I'm. Plus, they're very flexible. I have a daughter with special needs, so I'm really kind of stuck at that amount right now making that $90,000. So the way it stands right now, I'm basically making. Barely making my bills at this point, and I do not receive any type of child support or anything like that. And I'm just making the bare min on the credit card payments. And so I'm trying to figure out when this is all said and done and I can, you know, go and I can't touch.

[B]

Is there any financial settlement that you're going to get from the divorce?

[A]

No, no, there's absolutely nothing. I'll be lucky if I get child support at this point. I'm not. I'm not going to bank on anything at this point.

[D]

If you. If you could. I understand the limitations based on the loan forgiveness, but could you practice physical therapy today? Just theoretically, on paper, with your current qualifications.

[A]

The answer is yes. But I also have a daughter with special needs that requires a lot of my time. And if I had to pay for child care, that that would. Plus finding a provider that would be able to provide that child care. I'm kind of in, you know, a very difficult situation.

[D]

So. No. So no family support or friends in Westchester at all that could help out?

[A]

No, no. My. My family is from Florida. I don't have any family here.

[B]

Okay. So here's what's going to happen. Something's going to explode because you have painted a picture that says, I'm stuck in the corner and everything. Everything around me is wet paint and I can't move. And yet you're going to get your feet, you're going to get paint on your feet. Something's going to give. This is not sustainable. That's why you called us. So I don't know what it is it's going to give, but something's going to happen here and it's not going to be pretty. You're going to have another set of problems and anxiety ridden mess following this anxiety ridden mess of a divorce because you painted yourself into this corner of. I don't have any choices. I don't have any choices. You better make some because what you're telling me isn't sustainable. And you know it's not sustainable. So you need to get your lawyer. That's so dad gum expensive to go before the court and get you out of Westchester County. And you need to forget the stupid loan forgiveness because you're probably not going to get it. And you need to go make about $200,000 a year and get, get your freaking life back or something. I don't know what it is, but something's got to change because everything that we bring up, everything we talk to you and ask you about is a trap. I'm trapped. I'm trapped. I'm trapped. I'm trapped. That was the answer to every one of your questions. I don't have any choices. I don't have any choices. And yet the math is not working. So math will not give you a pass. Math does not believe in grace. Math does not believe in mercy. It's going to come for you and it already is. And you're feeling it and that's why you're calling. So I'm not trying to scare you, but your process, by all the stress you've been through and all the damage you've been through, it has made you believe that you are trapped and don't have choices. And I'm challenging that. You do have choices and you better make some. You better change something here because you're not going to get help from him. I'm betting that the student loan forgiveness doesn't work because such a low percentage of those actually do go through. And you may have sacrificed a great income for a lousy income. And I don't think you're trapped there. I think if you go before the judge and go, your honor, I don't make enough money to live in Westchester. I can't live here. Help me out here. Where can I go? What can you tell me what to do? And you go before the judge with that pleading and then you go, okay, now how am I going to work with a special needs child and give them proper care and also be able to feed them and house them. And so you can't. The math that you've given me doesn't work, doesn't continue. It's. Something's going to come up short and it's going to choose you if you don't choose it. That's what I'm saying. So you're not stuck. But. But you do have a very difficult situation. And part of it is. My heart's breaking for you, honey, because I hear your language. It's as if you have been abused in this relationship. So if you were in a domestic violence situation, one of the things the abuser convinces the person of is that they don't have any choices and that they're stuck. You can't leave, you can't afford to live without. So you have to stay and let me be a. And be my punching bag. And so that's one of the lies they tell. And then you start to believe that lie yourself. Now you broke free of this guy, but your language of I'm stuck, I'm stuck, I'm stuck, I'm stuck is breaking my heart because it still sounds like he still owns you. And I want you free from him and free from this trap and free from all this. I wish I had a magic wand. I could just say there's an instant thing here. But the one thing I will tell you is you gotta make some different choices. This is not. It's not working for you, hon. You know, I'm so sorry.

[D]

She can find people that can help take care of the child, but she's the only one that can feed the child. And so for that reason, I would drive this home. I would be getting into physical therapy and making the most money possible that gives you more options.

[B]

I'm stuck in a non profit making no money in the most expensive county in freaking New York area, except possibly Manhattan. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome back to the Ramsey street show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Shay is in Idaho. Hi Shea, how are you?

[A]

Hi there. I'm glad to be speaking with you, Dave and Ken. I'm very grateful for your ministry.

[B]

Well, thank you. How can we help?

[A]

Yeah, my question is around the enjoyment side of money. My husband and I both struggle with that and specifically around planning and booking vacations. When that time comes around, I just start to feel so much like anxiety and like shame about spending so much money on something. It's just hard for us and So I was wondering if you had any tips.

[B]

Well, number one, you have to practice because you've not developed that muscle. Your frugal muscle. Muscle is overdeveloped. And that's how you got here, thank goodness. But you, you've not, you've not flexed your enjoyment muscle very much while you were flexing your frugal muscle. Agreed.

[A]

Probably, yeah.

[B]

So the more you do it, the better you get at it. I speak from experience. I mean, I had a hard time buying a decent car, you know, and now I don't have any trouble at all.

[A]

That has been our struggle as well.

[B]

Yeah. The second thing is I look at ratios, and the ratios are, what percentage of our world are we actually spending? And how does it compare to our generosity? So we look over here and we say, our generosity equals X. And this dinky butt little trip we're doing is a small, small, small percentage of what we make and what we give. And so my heavenly father, who's crazy about me, says, if we being evil, know how to give our children good things, how much more? So our Father in heaven wants us to have good things, in other words. And so God's not mad if I enjoy some of the blessings that he gave me while I'm being generous and while the amount of money feels like a lot because it's compared weirdly, emotionally to the old days, but as a percentage of my world today, it's a very small amount. And that's the ratio thing, the generosity thing, and the acknowledgment. So another example of that is, okay, around Ramsey, we have 1100 team members. We're in 650,000 square feet. We spend more, we furnish coffee. We have coffee. These grinding coffee machines on every floor, right? They make fresh brewed ground coffee for everybody, right. And they don't pay for it. It's free to all the team members.

[D]

Numbers.

[B]

We spend more on coffee than I made in a year most of my life. That still freaks me out. You know, it's still a problem, but it's just a matter of scale and ratio. But it's a very small percentage of what Ramsey the organization has coming in and revenues. So obviously we're not being irresponsible. We're not going to have to shut down because of our cost coffee. It's not even close. And that's the case, I'm guessing. What's your all's net worth, Shay?

[A]

Over a million.

[B]

And what's, what is your household. Household income?

[A]

My husband makes 120 and I make.

[B]

Around 50, 170 with a million. And what are you talking about spending on a trip?

[A]

They just get more expensive every year.

[B]

What are you talking about spending on a trip? Trip.

[A]

Like 12 to 15?

[B]

Yeah. Well, it's absurdly small. Percentage of your world is that you hugs the kids while we were talking about this. The million dollars made you 12. That's true.

[D]

Who's going on the trip?

[A]

All six of us.

[D]

Right. How old are the kids?

[A]

Oh, sorry. There's 6, 8, 10, and 11.

[D]

Okay. As a guy who has. Who has one in college and another one graduating high school, I'm gonna give you, you two words that I think you need to process the next time you start feeling this shame about spending money because you've already proven to be frugal. So here's what I want you to think of. Return versus regret. What's the return on that investment of the 12 to 15,000 with those six kids 10 years, 20 years, 30 years from now? What's the return on those memories and all of the things.

[B]

All right, mine's still talking about it.

[D]

Versus the regret. If you don't take those kinds of trips with those six, and then they get out.

[B]

And.

[D]

And I think return versus regret. You've already proven you're frugal, so Dave and I aren't here worried about you overspending. But you've got to play those words out. What's the return on this trip? And then what would the regret be if we didn't do things like this and had all this money?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

But very few memories and experiences.

[B]

The return versus the regret does not work if you're borrowing the money to do it. Boys and girls out there in radio land. Hello.

[D]

Good point. Yes.

[B]

So this lady's a millionaire making 170, and she's going to write a check for this.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

Don't use the same argument. I put $12,000 on my credit card because Ken Coleman said I would regret it if I didn't go on this vacation. No, you'd be regretting being stupid if you did that.

[D]

Thank you for clarifying.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

That is within the context of you have cash.

[B]

Yeah. You have the money. Money. It's a small percentage of your world. And I suspect your generosity is larger than your trip. I suspect most people who get where you are, their generosity is there. So how. You're doing a good job. Enjoy the ride. Yeah. So, folks, there's. This is where this falls under. The reason I have to stop and clarify that is.

[D]

Oh, you're right.

[B]

Live like no one else. So that.

[D]

That's correct.

[B]

And she's at the. So that later you can live and give like no one else. But the truth is what I spend, or what someone who has accumulated some wealth is. A small percentage of our wealth is spent on consumption. Most of it is spent on generosity and reinvestment. The vast majority of the money that I touch and that God has blessed me to manage for him is either reinvested for future generations or it is invested in other ways, called generosity back into the community, in some communities somewhere and some dollar amount. And those are the two things that make up the vast majority. The highest percentage by far of our income or of our net worth is invested in those two things. Our consumption, though, is still ridiculously larger than it was when we were not making any money and didn't have any money. So it still is emotional, it still feels weird. And, you know, sometimes even friends or dysfunctional family will say stupid things like, you're so lucky. Well, that's a dumb butt thing to say. Luck had nothing to do with it.

[D]

Yeah, don't say that around Dave.

[B]

Luck had. Luck comes in dressed with calluses and overalls, getting ready to do some work. That's where luck comes in. I know where luck comes from. It's a sweat. That's where luck comes from. I got your luck.

[D]

Luck's when you win the raffle.

[B]

Yeah. Luck's when you were smoking crack in the parking lot and bought a lottery ticket and hit it. That's luck. Oh, there we go. Okay, but that's luck. But this is not luck. This is work and God's blessings. God just decided in his infinite grace that he was going to touch us with the tip of his finger and bless the things that we were working on and protect us and allow us to be sitting here. So. But don't call it luck. It's insulting to God and it's insulting to my calluses. Foreign.

[E]

Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off, worse, or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose.

[B]

Lose.

[E]

Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me. You're more in control than you think. You can turn your finances around. So let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free Every Dollar live stream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck so you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead. And you could even win $2,000 just for signing up. Listen to listen. Another year is gonna pass anyway. So decide that this is the year you're gonna take back control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free live [e-mail] live stream.

[B]

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co host today. Selling a house the Ramsey way. Buying a house the Ramsey way makes homeownership a blessing instead of a curse. The Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a real estate agent you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey. Now we do not put real estate agents in our endorsed program unless we have vetted them and they're high performance, high octane. It's not your aunt Sally who got her license last week and she was selling Pampered Chef right before that. Now this is somebody that actually sells a lot of houses. Okay? They actually know what they are doing in order to become Ramsey trusted agents. So if you want to find out who we recommend in your area and get your place sold or maybe help you get something bought, check it out. Ramsey trusted real estate agent agent. You can do it for free. Ramseysolutions.com agent Melanie is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi Melanie, how are you?

[A]

Hi, I'm good. How are you?

[B]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[A]

Okay, so my husband and I have two rental properties and my mother in law has lived in one since 2019. She moved in from Vermont, didn't have a place to go and so my husband let her move into that house. 2020 hit, my husband's in the army. Didn't get a certain something that everyone was demanded they were told to get and he lost his job that he was going to sell the house. She told him that God told her it is his job to take care of her because he is the son. So he bought a new house in the town down the road and she still lives currently in this same house.

[B]

Were you all married at this time when God told her that about you?

[A]

No, we were not. We were not. I was not around.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So he was single and she lived with him. So we have one child. We are expecting our second one in October and I'm self employed. My husband's still in the army but we came mutually to the decision that in August because my job is pretty physical that I'm going to stop working and then I'm Only probably going to go back maybe one or two days a week. And so we are. It would be very helpful to have an actual income coming in from that house. She pays half of the mortgage. My husband pays 450 and his one brother gives 150 towards it. It's kind of a sticky situation. There's six siblings between all of them and everyone else has had their opportunity to grow and expand their family. My husband is the last one out of the six to be married and have kids, so we don't want to kick her out, but she.

[B]

Yes, you do.

[A]

Well, I don't want to say I do, but it would just. It would. It would just be. It would just be helpful.

[B]

You're so sweet. Just tell them. Just say what you mean. You want her to leave. She. She's taking advantage of everybody and you're over it.

[A]

Yes. And that's where my. That's where my husband is at.

[B]

Well, then he needs to deal with his mom.

[A]

So. So. But this is the other thing. She won't move into a senior high rise.

[B]

She will.

[A]

She's going to move anywhere.

[B]

She will. If she's.

[A]

So do you think that's, that's our best option? Give her like 60 days and call her like.

[B]

Okay, listen, I can tell you how to get, get her out. Just, it's two words. Rubber snake. Yeah.

[D]

That'S where I was going. I was going to ask what is she afraid of? Because we can make this really easy with no tension.

[A]

Well, but that's, but that's the other. That's the other hard thing is she, she claims ptsd. She claims all of these, all of these issues.

[B]

Well, I think I claim that she's moving into assisted living if she can't manage her life. And we'll help her do that with a little bit of money. And we'll use some of the money from the sale of the house. You need to sell the house. We'll use some of the money from sale of house to help her get settled. And then unplug the cord, the umbilical cord. Okay.

[A]

Okay. Because my, my husband was just one. Just from the Christian perspective, he.

[B]

No, honey, there's nothing Christian about that. Let me just tell you, okay? I had a guy walk into the office here a while back at the front desk, and they said, there's a guy down here to see you. And I walked down. He said, God told me you were going to buy me a van. And I said, no. He didn't, he didn't tell you that. He Said, what do you mean? I said, he absolutely did not tell you that because if he had told you that, he would have told me and there would be a van sitting out there for you. But he didn't tell me. So I'm always interested as a Christian for people who play the God card with such authority and all they are is a manipulator. This has nothing to do with honoring your mother. When they say honor your father and your mother, it doesn't say honor their misbehavior. It says honor the office of motherhood. The office of fatherhood. If your mom does cocaine and wants you to buy it for her, that is not a godly act. Okay.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And your mother in law is misbehaving. She's a travel agent for guilt trips. She's got issues.

[D]

That's good.

[B]

I'm gonna use that.

[D]

I've never heard that.

[A]

I know.

[C]

That's a good one.

[B]

Yeah. And your poor husband has been pushed around by her and then she plays the God card and God didn't tell her that. That. That's a complete load of crap. Okay.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

It's absolutely not true.

[D]

What's your husband's stomach for all of this?

[B]

Is he going to take. Is he going to take her on?

[A]

So his thought was he was going to put the house on section eight and then we would register her for section eight housing.

[D]

That's awful.

[B]

She needs to move. You need to deal. He needs to deal with his mom. Mom. He needs to lovingly, kindly go sit down, have a cup of coffee and go. Mom, we're done. I love you. And I'm going to help you move into some assisted living with some of the money I make from the sale of this house. But you have milked this cow and it is dry and you're not milking anymore. Mom, we're done. Well, no, mom, you're confused. I said we're done and I wasn't kidding. We are done. You are moving. You're either going to move gently and kindly with my assistance or I'm gonna set you in the street with the sheriff. Now, do you want to play this the easy way or the hard way? You've reached the end of my patience. I am done. I love you. I'm going to help you as best I can. But you living here is not going to happen anymore. He needs to have the backbone to say that. That. And you don't need to be in the room.

[A]

Well, that's. Yeah, they. They have. He has a lot of animosity you.

[B]

Don'T need to be in the room. You'll get blamed for all this. So we could. You'll be the. You'll be the wicked stepdaughter.

[D]

If he's got animosity towards her, this actually should be a little easier because.

[B]

You just got to be careful, be kind.

[D]

Yeah, but I mean, as far as disappointing her, I mean, look, you guys have got to tell.

[B]

Mama couldn't give a crap. Laugh as she's disappointed.

[A]

It's not. He's not disappointed. He's not afraid she'll be disappoint. Him and his brother are best friends. And his brother is the one that sometimes also guilt trips him to keeping.

[D]

Well, then let him take care of him.

[B]

Let him write the checks.

[D]

You guys gotta cast a little.

[B]

And it's amazing how everybody's got an opinion about what you guys should do with your money.

[D]

That's the key.

[A]

Oh, I know this family is.

[B]

They put the fun in dysfunction, don't they? Wow.

[D]

You're coming home with a new baby. And this is a financial asset that will help you all live the life you want to live. I'd stay in that land lane to where they are painted in a corner. Multi millionaire.

[B]

You want to put up with this crap and you want to just write checks just to not have to deal with it, that's fine. But it's not good for her. She's going to continue to do this crap the rest of her life. Yeah. And it's not good for. It's not good for you guys. It's. You know, you're losing respect for your husband. He's losing respect for himself because he won't stand up to this. You know, this mom that's out of control and is not biblical. Automatically you have to write checks for somebody who doesn't do stuff. I mean, I want him to take care of her to the point he can. That'd be sweet. It's a charitable act, but it is not a biblical mandate. God did not tell her that he was to furnish her a house. That's an absolute load of religious crap. That's what that is, man. I love my brothers, sisters and sisters in Christ, but some of you people are over saved. This is the Ramsey Show. When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start, start. Answer some Questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money. Starting Today, go with ramseysolutions.com start. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Nathan and Brittany are with us. Hey, guys. How are you doing?

[E]

Well, how are you doing?

[B]

Better than we deserve. Where do you guys live? Chattanooga. All right. Just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off?

[E]

$73,545.

[B]

Excellent. And how long did that take?

[E]

About 14.

[B]

Good for you and your range of income during that time?

[E]

80 to about a hundred thousand.

[C]

Cool.

[B]

What do y' all do for a living?

[E]

I am a first grade teacher and.

[B]

I'm a mental health therapist and I direct a college counseling center for a local college. Oh, excellent. Very good. So what kind of debt was the 74 grand?

[E]

It was taxes. It was a car, credit cards, and.

[B]

I had student loans.

[E]

Student loans?

[B]

Yeah. Y' all were kind of normal.

[E]

Yeah, very normal.

[B]

Yeah, normal sucks. Yeah, it did. So what happened 14 months ago? What was your wake up call? What was your your something's got to change moment?

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Well, we went through Financial Peace University whenever. We got married five years ago, and we were Ramsay Ish for about three and a half years and paid off only $30,000 of debt.

[B]

So you flunked.

[E]

Yes, very much so. And then 14 months ago, we owed in taxes for the first time and had to get new tires on our car within a couple days of each other. And we both felt like we got punched because we had had a bunch of bills. We had student loans, credit cards. And now we had to get new tires and pay the irs, which is a scary feeling.

[B]

It's interesting that owing the IRS suddenly like that is like 100x more drama than owing the exact same amount to a credit card company.

[E]

Yes, it was scary.

[B]

They're just like. Yeah, and with good reason, because they're scary people. But. But wow, there is something puts a lump in your throat, a knot in the stomach, and you gotta. Okay, this has gotta stop. We gotta get that old financial peace book back out. And this time we're doing it. Yes, exactly. Is that what it sounded like?

[E]

Yeah. I mean, I started working at my school. We have an opportunity to work the late stay program. And so I started working from 7am to 6pm every day. He started door dashing. He started teaching classes.

[B]

Any extra that we could do, we were trying to do. We cut up our credit cards, cards, the whole nine yards.

[E]

Yep. It got very Serious.

[B]

Yeah. Got on a budget.

[E]

We were on a budget, but we started actually following the budget.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Actually doing it. Yeah, exactly.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

See, here's what I want people to hear. You knew the plan. You said you were ish, and then you go from ish to right. Like that R. That. Ramsey, was like, it's a guttural kind of a sound. So what were beyond working hard, what were some of the communication changes in order to actually finally go, we're doing this thing.

[B]

Yeah. We had to quit making excuses. And, you know, our date nights look a lot different. Friday nights we were having cheap pizza, watching Smart Money happy hour at home. You know, I mean, just. Yeah. The communication. We began to more just breathe and communicate. Ramsey.

[E]

Yeah. And we communicated about everything. Like, people in our lives would be like, you're talking about buying gum, but it'd be like, no, we're communicating about everything, saying, this is where our budget's going. Is it okay that we put this in the miscellane category because it came up unexpectedly. Yeah, we just communicated about every little thing.

[D]

That's awesome.

[B]

Yeah. Glad the wake up call was something small.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Knock out. Yeah. That. The why. So your. Your core reason was to get away from that fear. That's what drove you that. That moment, you know, I don't ever want to feel like this again.

[E]

Yeah. And to change our generation that comes after us, that's the more noble step.

[B]

Once you get past the fear, you're like, okay, we're going to change the family tree. Yeah.

[E]

We never want our kids to experience that.

[B]

Right. The fear motivated us. But then also, I mean, we're both Christians, and so once we began getting on that path, it wasn't easy. It felt like spiritual warfare at times. Like, things kept on coming up, coming up, coming up. But we realized, like, you know, we also want to use our finances to honor God and steward what we've been given. Well, yeah. Yeah. Good for you guys. Well done. Well done. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Well, other than getting to Brittany in their life. Because, like, I could take an hour and talk about how incredible that she is, but other. Other than that, because I've got her and that's my step. But I would say, know your why. Just, I mean, tying it back into that. And for ours was for giving praise to the Lord Jesus. Yeah.

[E]

And intentionality. Because as we say, said, it took us three and a half years to pay off 30,000, and then we paid off 73,000 in 14 months. And it's just funny how we had so many people tell us on while we were on this journey. Oh, I just wish we could do that. I wish we could do that. And it's like, well, you can't. All you have to do is make the hard choices. Because it is hard. It's not an easy thing. It was the hardest season we've had so far.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

But the intentionality is what changed it. And if we can do it, anyone can.

[B]

Deloney says, choose your hard. I mean, it's hard to owe the IRS money and not be able to put your tires on your car. That's hard. But there's also the hard of I'm gonna sacrifice so I don't ever have to face that again. That's a better hard to choose. Just choose that one. And that's the one you chose the second time. Good job, y'.

[D]

All.

[B]

Well done. Very, very, very well done. So what was the hardest part? What was the biggest fight you had while you were doing this? 14 months.

[E]

The hardest part was just making sure that we were both serious at the same time. Because it is hard, and it's really nice to do this with somebody to keep you accountable. And so when I would say, I think we should use the budget for this, or he would say that we should use the budget for this, it was just hard sometimes getting on the same page. And it was really easy to have one person say, well, why not for this? Oh, also, no spend months are hard. Those are really, really hard. And so just making sure we would get on the same page.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm, you know, Rachel Cruz talks about, like, I'm a spontaneous giver. She says that in her book, know yourself, know your money. And for me, I had to be like, no, I can't give.

[D]

Right.

[B]

I mean, we gave to our church. Obviously, that was our planned giving, but for me, I had to keep that, like, long distance go of like, I want to be able to live and give. Give like no one else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So right now I'm going to not do the spontaneous. Right? Yeah. Everything's got to be dialed into a plan for a period of time here with this intensity. Yeah.

[D]

Right.

[B]

Well done, you guys. Proud of y'. All.

[E]

Thank you.

[B]

Who was cheering you on?

[E]

We had a lot of good cheerleaders in our life, but our main ones are here today. We have my parents, as I said, my dad, he had us do financial peace University whenever we first got married. And then my mom, she is an avid couponer. And so we haven't paid for toiletries or anything like that. Like that because of her. And then also there were some times that we'd come home from work and our fridge would be full of groceries because she was just being a great blessing. And then my best friend Megan is here and she has just been the ultimate cheerleader. Like every little thing, she'd be like.

[A]

You paid off $50.

[E]

Yeah. That's awesome. Just cheering every little step along the way. So just truly a great cheerleader.

[B]

Very cool. Good job, you guys. You surround yourself with people that love you and support you and that instead of a bunch of Debbie downers around you. That's very smart. Very smart. Well done. Good stuff. Good stuff. Poor Debbie and poor Karen, They've just gotten messed over.

[D]

Absolutely.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Wow. Well, way to go, you two. Very, very cool. Good stuff. Nathan and Brittany from Chattanooga. $74,000 paid off in 14 months, making 80 to 100. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free screenshot. Three, two, one. We're debt free. That is how it's done. Wow. Ken, if we can ever solve the formula to get people to be intense automatically while they're in the class, sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. But if we can solve that formula and not have that three and a half year gap of ick before something has to come along, punch you in the gut to get you awake, we will. We will have hit, you know, we will hit a milestone that will be huge because the number of people, number of you listening out there right now, you know, you listen to this stuff, but you don't do it.

[D]

Yeah. And here's the thing. I'm just sitting here watching this. And those of you that are listening, you could hear it in Nathan. Nathan's this very nice, soft spoken young man and he just loves Let it rip. And what's fun about watching that? And there's no judging whether you're louder than the next deck. Free screamer. But there's something emotional there. And to your point, Dave, if you can figure out how good it's going to feel in that class, like. And you see what it feels like, that's the idea is bottling that and going. Why would I want to delay that? I want to get through this now and experience what's on the other side of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Fantastic.

[B]

Step away from the is right.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

Don't do the is. Back away. Don't do the ish. Don't do it.

[D]

Just cannonball.

[B]

Don't do it. This is the Ramsay show. Foreign.

[E]

Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with money but still stuck? I was you in debt, running hard, but taking three steps forward and two steps back. Turns out it's not the numbers. It's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional. That's why I wrote my brand new book, what no one tells you about money. To help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress so you can finally win. You can pre order now and score over a hundred dollars in free bonus bonus items, but only if you order by January 5th. Go to ramseysolutions.com store today.

[B]

Our scripture of the day, Philippians 2, 14 and 15. Do everything without grumbling or arguing so that you may come become blameless and pure children of God, without fault, in a warped and crooked generation. Then will. Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky. Thomas Sowell said, there has now been created a world in which the success of others is a grievance rather than an example. Wow. Javier is with us in Denver. Hey, Javier. Javier, what's up?

[C]

Hey there, Dave. So, to get straight to the point, sir, thank you for picking my call. My dad wants to get a key lock, but he wants me to co sign because I don't think he can get on his own. The. The HELOC is 55,011 interest and I'm just kind of like wondering what I should do.

[B]

Well, you know what you should do. You just don't know how to tell your dad. No.

[C]

Yeah, I guess so.

[B]

How old are you?

[C]

I wanna. I wanna help. I'm 23.

[B]

Why in the world does a father need a 23 year old to sign a HELOC? CO. Sign a HELOC with him. He must really be a mess.

[C]

I. I mean, from the outside looking in, I can probably act. Probably.

[B]

Listen, if he needs a co signer, that's a 23 year old, he's made a mess. Otherwise he'd be able to get it on his own.

[C]

Roger that.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So play this out. Play. Play this out. Let's say you do this and he keeps making a mess of his life, which he already has. You acknowledge that. What does that do to you and your personal finances? And what does it do to your relationship?

[C]

Yeah, it's. It's gonna. It'll affect it in a negative way.

[D]

Absolutely, young man. So we're not trying to be unkind. We're trying to save you from getting pulled into this.

[B]

Save him from some grief. What's he want? The HELOC for, Do you know?

[C]

Yes, sir. So he owns a towing company and I work for the towing company. And he wants the HELOC so that we can get insurance for the tow trucks. And he also wants it to pay off a loan and some credit card cards, and that's what he wants it for.

[B]

So why, why is the tow truck company not making money?

[C]

Well, tow truck company was making money, but the insurance payment is what's kind of like. It's kind of a lot.

[B]

It's not making enough to pay its own insurance payment.

[C]

It seems to be that way, yes.

[B]

One of the expenses of operating a tow truck company is having insurance and it's not making a profit enough to even. Are not making enough revenue to even pay these expenses is what you're telling me.

[C]

Yeah, I guess so.

[B]

No, I mean really, if the company was making money, he'd have the money, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How much is the insurance payment, do you know?

[C]

So he wants to do a down payment on the insurance for 7,000. And I think I asked him what it would be. Annually. You can just do like an annual payment payment, maybe 35,000.

[B]

You know what the gross revenues of your company is?

[C]

No, sir, I don't. I don't know what the gross revenues are.

[B]

How many trucks are y' all running?

[C]

We run two. I run one and then he runs the another one of our drivers runs the other one. And then my dad works a full time job.

[B]

Okay, so. So the guy that trained me said that financial problems are not the problem, they're the symptom. So the problem of not being able to pay the insurance and having run the credit card up on the tow truck business is that the tow truck business is not profitable enough. That's the problem that doesn't get better with a loan, it gets worse with a loan. You follow me?

[C]

Understood.

[B]

So what this is, is if I were coaching your dad as a small business guy, which we coach small business guys all the time, I would tell him, let's work on the business and fix the business problem. What do we do to increase our revenues? Drop our expenses because he's not making enough, he's not making enough to pay his own insurance. So it may be that they need to get out of the tow truck business because not even his real job job, it's yours, but it's not his. And you can get another job, but, you know, so we got to fix the business to where the business is profitable because let's say the business had $50,000 cash in the bank. Because it was making so stinking much money you and I wouldn't be on the phone. Javier.

[C]

Yeah, that makes complete sense.

[B]

Yeah. So the business has got issues. It's got problems. And your dad's not a bad guy. He's a hard working dude. He's trying to figure this out. Out. But I'm coaching him through you right now. And my coaching to him is let's fix the business problem, not borrow and cover up the business problem and let the business problem continue because the borrowing is going to make it worse. So no, honey, you don't need to co sign for a heloc. Your dad doesn't need to take out a heloc. He needs to get above this problem and solve it for the tow truck business or get out of the tow truck business. But don't go borrow on your home soldier. Sir. To pay your insurance when your tow trucks aren't making enough to pay their own insurance. That's a bad plan for your dad.

[D]

Such wisdom. I hope people that are out there that may be struggling in a small business or a side hustle, you gotta know when to fold them. You know, you've gotta know. And if you can't fix that business, go ahead and shut the business down. Don't keep digging a deeper hole and fund it personally through debt. We see this a lot. And this breaks people.

[B]

People.

[D]

It breaks them.

[B]

Yeah. And he's, you know, and here's the thing. This dad, I'm. I'm going to, I'm going to give him a benefit of doubt. His son is driving the trucks. It's his side hustle. Y dad's side hustle. But his son's job.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

And he's trying to keep this alive for his kid.

[D]

I think that's right. I think that's right.

[B]

And that's a bad play too.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not. It's not a good play. If it. Let's either get this thing working or let's fold it up and sell the trucks.

[D]

How? You've done this way longer than I have. How do you fight that real emotion? Because that emotion is so strong to fight, to stay, to try to keep bailing water out of the boat.

[B]

How do you. I just use Henry Cloud's necessary endings rule. And that is when I don't have any real facts in front of me that indicate that there's a way around, a way through this, then I'm done. But if I've got a fact and if I try these three things and it works I'll be okay. Then I got to go try those three things before I give up. But if everything I play and I don't see a way around other than borrowing and making it worse, then it's time to fold. Time to close up, sell the trucks. Paul's with us in Canada. Hi, Paul. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[C]

Hi, Dave and Ken. How are you guys?

[B]

Better than we deserve. How can we help, sir?

[C]

Well, here's, here's our, my situation. I'm sitting here with my wife and we stole our house two years ago. We were in some pretty deep debt and we're in our mid to late 50s.

[B]

Are you out of debt now?

[C]

We are 100% out of debt. We have some credit card, A little bit of credit card debt. Nothing, Nothing too dramatic.

[B]

That would be like not 100% out of debt.

[C]

Well, okay. Two grand and 1500.

[B]

Okay. So you still hadn't learned your lesson. Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

You sold your house to get out of debt. You're still playing footsie with these plastics.

[C]

Okay, true. We, we have, we own our vehicles. We don't owe anybody anything.

[B]

Before I run out of time, Paul, what's your question?

[C]

My first of all, I'm actually glad that Ken is online there with you guys because it's direction right now. We have about 50,000, just under 50 grand in the bank right now. And my wife wants to buy another house and I don't.

[B]

Why don't you want to?

[C]

Well, I know the stress that I was under when we did own a house and making sure that you guys have incomes. Pardon me?

[B]

You have incomes.

[C]

My wife has income. I'm actually injured right now. I'm off work until the new year.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And I'm only working part time.

[B]

Okay. Well, when you're working and your incomes are there, if you take out a 15 year fixed rate loan where the payment is no more than a fourth of your take home pay, you're 100% debt free. You've cut up the stupid butt credit cards and you have an emergency fund in place. There shouldn't be any stress. Those numbers there don't give you stress. And you buy a home that you can afford. I think before you had a home you couldn't afford and that's where the stress came from. So owning a home is a good thing. Owning a home is not necessarily stressful. Paying too much and spending more than I have on a home, that's what causes stress. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.