Money’s Easy Until People Get Involved

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Money’s Easy Until People Get Involved"

Episode Information

• Title: Money’s Easy Until People Get Involved
• Host: Ramsey Network (Dave Ramsey and Team)
• Release Date: June 10, 2025

Overview In this engaging episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and his co-host Jade Washall delve into the complexities that arise when personal relationships intersect with financial management. The episode features a series of listener calls addressing various financial dilemmas influenced by interpersonal dynamics, offering practical advice and insights to help listeners navigate these challenges effectively.

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1. Dealing with a Financially Irresponsible Spouse

Caller: Bianca from Los Angeles

Bianca shares her struggles with her recently married spouse who exhibits financial irresponsibility. From unpaid child support to hidden car repossessions, Bianca is finding it increasingly difficult to manage their finances together.

Key Points:

• Communication Breakdown: Bianca attempts to discuss financial sacrifices, such as reducing spending on personal care, but faces anger and resistance from her spouse.
• Lack of Mutual Vision: Dave Ramsey emphasizes the importance of a shared financial vision to prevent conflicts over minor expenses like a Walmart shirt.

Notable Quotes:

• Bianca: “[He] tries to keep [the car] hidden so it doesn't get repossessed.” ([02:03])
• Dave Ramsey: “You don’t have a money problem, darling. You’ve got a husband problem.” ([03:04])

Advice Given:

• Set Aside Time for Discussion: Address financial issues calmly and without confrontation.
• Seek Professional Help: Consider marriage counseling if direct communication fails.
• Establish Common Goals: Create a unified financial plan based on shared values and long-term objectives.

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2. Managing Debt as a Young Professional

Caller: Ken Coleman from St. Louis

Ken, a 26-year-old newly graduated dentist, seeks advice on handling $215,000 in parental debt accrued during dental school, while earning $350,000 annually.

Key Points:

• Avoiding “Doc Itis”: Ramsey warns against the complacency that can arise after attaining a high-income position.
• Strategic Debt Repayment: Focus on aggressively paying off debt before making significant investments or lifestyle upgrades.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “Save up and pay for it. You have this wonderful income. Keep your stinking lifestyle down, clear your debt, bank some money...” ([26:13])
• Ken: “So, No, I would not spend $75,000 on a graduate degree in costuming. No, I would not.” ([110:12])

Advice Given:

• Prioritize Debt Repayment: Utilize the debt snowball method to eliminate debt systematically.
• Maintain a Frugal Lifestyle: Resist the temptation to increase spending in line with income growth.
• Plan for Future Investments: Once debt-free, redirect funds toward investments to build wealth.

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3. Handling Inheritance Wisely

Caller: Carol from Houston

Carol recently inherited a little over half a million dollars after her 96-year-old mother's passing. She seeks guidance on managing and investing this inheritance.

Key Points:

• Trusting Instincts: Ramsey encourages Carol to rely on her financial instincts, honed from her mother’s prudent management.
• Investment Strategies: Diversify investments across mutual funds tailored to her age and risk tolerance.

Notable Quotes:

• Carol: “She wanted to live as long as her dad and she got her wish...” ([27:28])
• Dave Ramsey: “Walk you up the baby steps...” ([30:11])

Advice Given:

• Diversify Investments: Allocate funds into Growth, Growth and Income, Aggressive Growth, and International Mutual Funds.
• Seek Professional Guidance: Consult with a financial advisor to optimize investment strategies.
• Maintain an Emergency Fund: Ensure liquidity to handle unforeseen expenses without disrupting investment plans.

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4. Paying Off Debt as a Couple

Callers: Justin and Casey from St. Louis, MO

Justin and Casey share their journey of paying off $181,000 in debt within 24 months by combining their finances and adhering to Ramsey’s baby steps.

Key Points:

• Teamwork and Communication: Their success is attributed to working closely together, eliminating unnecessary expenses, and committing to a strict budget.
• Lifestyle Adjustments: Sacrifices such as not eating out and taking on side hustles were essential to their debt-free journey.

Notable Quotes:

• Casey: “We didn't eat out for two years except if we got gift cards.” ([71:06])
• Justin: “We knocked it out.” ([66:18])
• Rachel Cruze: “Trust each other and communicate.” ([72:39])

Advice Given:

• Combine Finances Transparently: Merge budgets to streamline debt repayment and savings.
• Adopt a Frugal Lifestyle: Identify and eliminate non-essential expenses to maximize debt repayment.
• Support Each Other: Maintain open communication and mutual support to stay motivated.

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5. Identifying and Avoiding Crypto Scams

Caller: Shelby from Nashville

Shelby is concerned that her boyfriend may be a scam artist encouraging her to cash out her 401k to invest in crypto promises with dubious returns.

Key Points:

• Red Flags of Scams: High returns with low risk are often indicative of fraudulent schemes.
• Emotional Manipulation: Recognizing manipulative behaviors such as gaslighting and shaming in financial discussions.

Notable Quotes:

• Shelby: “It sounds pretty sketchy, but when I've tried to talk to him about it...” ([77:48])
• Dave Ramsey: “Anyone that tries to tell their someone that they love to cash out their 401k and put it in crypto buy that has a 90% probability is either an idiot or a con man.” ([79:02])

Advice Given:

• Trust Your Instincts: If something feels off, it likely is.
• Avoid High-Risk Investments: Steer clear of investments promising unusually high returns.
• End Toxic Relationships: Sever ties with individuals who pressure or manipulate you into harmful financial decisions.

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6. Navigating Financial Struggles as a Single Parent

Caller: Destiny from Orlando

Destiny, a 24-year-old single mother residing in a domestic violence shelter, seeks advice on managing $18,000 in debt while supporting her one-year-old son with medical needs.

Key Points:

• Immediate Financial Stability: Focus on securing stable housing and income before addressing debt.
• Support Systems: Leveraging community and church resources for assistance and guidance.

Notable Quotes:

• Destiny: “I'm trying to consolidate my own debt and I'm currently living in a DV shelter...” ([87:34])
• Dave Ramsey: “Your first job is to create a stable home situation, not get out of debt.” ([90:33])

Advice Given:

• Prioritize Essential Needs: Ensure basic living conditions and income stability.
• Seek Community Support: Connect with churches and support groups for emotional and financial assistance.
• Develop a Financial Plan: Work with a financial coach to create a manageable debt repayment strategy.

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7. The Risks of Cosigning a Mortgage

Caller: Oliver from St. Louis

Oliver contemplates whether his boss should cosign a mortgage for him and his fiancée in exchange for renting garage space for his exotic vehicles.

Key Points:

• High Risk of Cosigning: Cosigning creates significant financial and personal risks if the primary borrower defaults.
• Financial Independence: Emphasizes the importance of managing finances independently rather than relying on others.

Notable Quotes:

• Oliver: “He wants to pay half the mortgage by cosigning for us...” ([119:24])
• Dave Ramsey: “Never do a cosign deal under any circumstances ever.” ([124:08])

Advice Given:

• Avoid Cosigning: Protect your financial well-being by not cosigning loans.
• Evaluate Financial Capability: Ensure you can afford mortgage payments without external assistance.
• Seek Financial Autonomy: Focus on improving your credit and savings to independently qualify for loans.

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Insights and Conclusions

• Effective Communication: Successful financial management in relationships hinges on open, honest, and non-confrontational communication.
• Shared Financial Vision: Aligning long-term financial goals and values fosters harmony and cooperation between partners.
• Debt Prioritization: Tackling debt systematically before making significant investments or lifestyle changes is crucial for financial stability.
• Awareness of Scams: Vigilance against high-risk investments and manipulative financial behaviors protects personal finances.
• Support Systems are Vital: Leveraging community resources and professional guidance aids in overcoming financial hardships.

Final Thoughts

The Ramsey Show underscores the intricate interplay between personal relationships and financial health. By fostering clear communication, mutual support, and disciplined financial strategies, listeners can navigate the challenges where “people get involved” and maintain control over their financial destinies. Whether dealing with a partner’s financial irresponsibility, managing significant debt, or avoiding scams, the advice provided aims to empower individuals and couples to build lasting wealth and secure their financial future.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Dave Ramsey: “You don’t have a money problem, darling. You’ve got a husband problem.” ([03:04])
• Dave Ramsey: “Never do a cosign deal under any circumstances ever.” ([124:08])
• Rachel Cruze: “We didn’t eat out for two years except if we got gift cards.” ([71:06])
• Dave Ramsey: “Anyone that tries to tell their someone that they love to cash out their 401k and put it in crypto buy that has a 90% probability is either an idiot or a con man.” ([79:02])
• Dave Ramsey: “Your first job is to create a stable home situation, not get out of debt.” ([90:33])

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washall, Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co host today. Open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225. Bianca is in Los Angeles. Hi, Bianca, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm pretty good, thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, so I have a spouse that we just got married maybe, maybe four or five months ago, and he's super financially irresponsible.

[George Kamel]

You're just finding that out or you kind of knew it before?

[Jade Weshall]

I am really kind of just finding it. The brevity of it out, how deeply rooted it is.

[George Kamel]

What's that mean? Tell us what that looks like.

[Jade Weshall]

Well, here's a couple of examples. So he's behind on his child support because the job that he had was the contract job. And so they'll contract for a few months and then they'll be without work for a few months. Well, then he got another contract job and he got into a dispute with the guy there and ended up losing it. So his child support is in like, arrears and he could even like, if they found out, I guess he could go to jail. I don't know. The process is for child support not being paid on time, but that's just like one thing. So when it comes to like the money, he's, when he gets paid, he wants to go get his hair done or me to get my hair done. And I'm like, okay, we need to sacrifice this little bit of money so that we can actually take it and start paying off debts. Like, he also has a car that's in his mom's name that's out for repossession. And so he, you know, he tries to keep it hidden so it doesn't get repossessed. And like, it's just.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long did you guys date before you were married? Four months ago.

[Jade Weshall]

Not very long at all. We kind of met and then we just got married, like a very short period of time afterwards.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how old, how old are you?

[Jade Weshall]

Two months. I'm 41. He's 52.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it sounds like a story of two 20 year olds.

[Jade Weshall]

I know. Really, it does.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

And you just. So it's like you didn't know all of this and now that you're living together, it's starting to be revealed what's really going on.

[Dave Ramsey]

So when you sit down and talk about it. How does it go?

[Jade Weshall]

He gets angry about it. For example, he just started this new job and he wanted to buy a shirt because his shirts from the job hadn't came through yet. And I'm like, well, let us get the cheapest shirt when we're at Walmart. And he's like, well, I want to get this shirt because it's better than this one or whatever, which was a little bit more. And I'm like, well, get the cheaper one so you get, you know, the one from the job so every little bit of money that you can save and not spend matters. He's like, why do God always argue with me? Why you guys got to make a scene? And I'm like, I wasn't making a scene. It's like he always refutes everything I said he did.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't, you don't have a money problem, darling. You got a husband problem.

[George Kamel]

And there's part of this. Here's a piece of advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you're arguing in Walmart, right, Over a shirt, we know the marriage is in trouble.

[George Kamel]

Yes. But a piece of advice that you might try because I don't, you know, you still gotta, you gotta try here for a minute.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Kamel]

Well, a piece of advice is not having this conversation in the moment. Like, not having the conversation in the moment that the bad behavior is taking place, but setting aside a time that has nothing to do, nothing's happened. You just say, hey, let's go get breakfast, like it's just a normal thing that you're gonna do. And then you say, here's, here's some of things I've been thinking about. And as much as you can put it towards you, here's what I'm thinking about. I'd really like to feel a little bit more peace financially. I'd really. Some of the things I've been thinking about, Right. And it's not saying you're spending too much on this. Your child supports. Do. You're, you know, irresponsible. Not that you've been saying that, but that's clearly the way he's feeling it, even though he is irresponsible. I'm with you, but how can we have that conversation in a way that possibly he could receive it? And, and I'm not guaranteeing you that he will receive it, but that's a better.

[Dave Ramsey]

The hope that you've got is, you guys. The Bible has a phrase that says, where there is no vision, the people perish.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what happens is you don't have a vision for your marriage and you don't have a vision for your financial future that you're aligned on. And so if you're up above the problem, looking at the ideas and saying, okay, we want to not be in repo, we want to be able to buy a shirt and not think about it. We want to be able to retire with dignity, we want to be able to pay our bills and not have financial stress. These are our vision things. Okay, then what does those vision then lead us to? What principles do we need to implement? Well, we need to sacrifice and we need to live on less than we make. And we need to be on a written plan and in order to accomplish the, the principles, the vision that we've agreed to. Instead, you guys are down in the ditch fighting about a Walmart shirt.

[Jade Weshall]

Right? And it's not just Walmart shirt.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, darling, but that's a metaphor for this whole thing right now.

[Jade Weshall]

I got you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you can't, if the two of you can't rise up above, what is your functioning? I'm not sure you are personally, but the stories you've told me, we got married in 30 seconds, and the way you've addressed these things and the way he's behaving, all of these are indicators of immaturity. And at least in those moments, you were immature short term thinkers, not long term thinkers. That's what maturity is. And that's a lack of vision. And I'm not saying you are that person. I'm saying in those moments, you were. I might have been immature this weekend. Okay? So I'm not saying it's a momentary thing, but if he is, as a category, financially irresponsible and immature, that's a large problem. The only way you're gonna fix that is for the two of you to get above that and have a long term thing that we're willing to build together towards. If you can't accomplish that by the two of you talking about it above the problem, not talking about the symptoms, let's get above the problem. And if you can't get that, then you probably need to sit down with a good marriage counselor. And I kind of think you probably do.

[George Kamel]

I think so too.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. Yeah. Like I, like she said, I've actually said, let's schedule some time to talk about it. And he like, you know, kind of brushes it off or get really adamant about and angry and yelling and stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

He feels really, he feels really threatened.

[George Kamel]

He has a car.

[Jade Weshall]

He has a car that doesn't work that's got 200 plus miles, thousand miles on it. And I'm like, well, at least sell that and get a couple of thousand dollars. Well, I don't want to sell it. It's going to be worth some money when I get it.

[George Kamel]

What you're saying, and I. I understand why you're saying that. Why you're. Why it's not working is you're telling him what to do. And I get it from a logical perspective. You're like, it's easy. Why wouldn't he just do this? Why wouldn't he do that?

[Jade Weshall]

He asked me what to do, and I'm like, here's my thing you should do. Don't ask me if you don't think I should give you your opinion about it.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you guys, I think we ought to agree on some principles. And the principals will tell us what to do. The principals will say, buy the cheaper shirt at Walmart or just wear one you got till the new ones come in. The principals will say, sell the old car. The principals will say that a responsible grown man doesn't short his own children. He catches up on his child support. The principles say, we're going to sit down together and map out a life that has peace and sustainability and love and not all this angst and disrespect. He feels very disrespected. And you're scared because you think you've signed up for a bad trip here.

[George Kamel]

Exactly.

[Jade Weshall]

And let me just add this. So I met him because I have two properties, and one of them, I was Airbnb out. So I started Airbnb my property out, and he was like my first guest. And he ended up taken to me and liking me and fixing stuff around the house. And then, you know, we kind of didn't really date, but we got married shortly thereafter, him becoming a guest here. And I'm like, did he just need a place to stay at, like.

[George Kamel]

I don't know.

[Jade Weshall]

I just.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're starting to feel used. Yeah. So again, to save this, you've got to get above it. Otherwise it's not going to be saved because I don't give you two years.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Counseling is a must, max.

[Dave Ramsey]

You do need a finance. You do need a marriage counselor in your corner. And they can help. Hopefully they can walk you through it. Huh?

[Chris Hogan]

Sticking to a budget is hard enough. And inflation, George, it isn't helping us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. In fact, 54% of Americans say it's a challenge to save on groceries without sacrificing quality.

[George Kamel]

But Aldi makes it easy.

[Chris Hogan]

Aldi's private label. It is delicious food with incredible prices that you can stay within your budget.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And Aldi has the lowest prices of.

[Ken Coleman]

Any national grocery store, which is really impressive.

[Dave Ramsey]

And with all the money you saved, you're going to be making more progress toward your financial goals.

[Chris Hogan]

Yes. Which is what we want for you guys. So stop overpaying and start shopping at Aldi. Find a store near you today at Aldi Us. That's a L D. I usually.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you're going to get married, the data tells us a couple of things that's helpful. Data is not always 100% accurate. There are averages which means there's people on each side of the bell curve. But the bell curve in the middle says this. A good fully engaged present in the same city engagement for around six months has the highest probability of marriage success. Five year engagements aren't real engagements. Those are people shacking up together, talking about getting married. Five day engagements are a date that went crazy. The data says six month engagements on average lead to long term marriage. It's a, you know, now that can be nine months, it could be four months, it could be whatever. I've got friends that dated for a few weeks and been married 40 years. There are exceptions. I'm just telling you. The data says on average, what was yours?

[George Kamel]

How long did you date Sharon and how long were y' all engaged?

[Dave Ramsey]

We started dating in February, we got married the following June which would have been. We dated for 18 months and we were in college. We got married right out of college, the day we graduated from college. So there was a timing thing there. It really wasn't as scientific as I just laid it out a minute ago. And we got engaged in September and got married in June. So that's going to be nine months.

[George Kamel]

Okay, that's similar but again that was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Senior year of college. So the senior year was dictating it, not the actual engagement. That kind of had something to do with it. But it just turned out I had no idea. I was a stupid redneck, hell raising hillbilly. I had no idea what I was doing. I mean she just, I just got lucky and she didn't. That's all it was. So. But the, you know, so anyway, that's how we signed up 43 years ago for that deal. But the data does say that. The data also tells us that if you're going to get married to be in agreement before you're married in detail, preferably in the office of a pre marriage counseling by the way. Pre marriage counseling is a lot indicator for success going in and very few people do it. The Catholics do a really good job, really, if you're Catholic in general. They have the best program I've ever seen on pre marriage counseling. It's in depth. I mean, they take you through it, they talk about your mama, you know, I mean they go into everything, you know, that kind of stuff. So. And his mama and all that. Right. And so pre marriage counseling. But anyway, in that you need to be in agreement on four things. Money in detail, debt saving, generosity, budgeting. Who's the spender, who's the saver, who's the nerd, who's the free spirit, who believes in abundance, who lives in scarcity. All of that, because number one cause of divorce in North America is money problems and money fights. The lady that just called, what are the other ones? Religion, religion, Kids, Kids, dealing with kids. How many to have and who's in charge?

[George Kamel]

How to reason.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is the asylum. Are the kids, are the inmates in charge of the asylum? In other words, are your children free range? You know, and so that kind of stuff. Right. And so, and then the last one's in laws.

[George Kamel]

In laws. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Extended family. Extended family is the number four. Because there's crazy in every family. And if you think there's not crazy in your family, it means it's you. So you got to figure that out and go, how are we going to deal when you know when grandma wants to move in. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Or money.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a bad one. Or when, when your brother in law who does drugs comes by and wants money, but he's hungry, I don't want him to be on the street. Well, he chose that when he chose heroin. So, you know, but the, this is, this is, you got to decide this stuff ahead of time. So these are the four things. With premarriage, counseling and a medium to lengthy engagement, they're high indicators for the probability. Now I don't want to take all the romance out of this and turn it into a science project, but you ought to use some common sense and go. That's what the data says. So if you're not in agreement on those four things, you have a problem. If you have a short engagement, you're like more likely to have a problem than if you don't. If you have a super long engagement, you're more likely to have a problem than if you don't. You know, these are the things that you run into. And so you can, especially those of you. We've got this tremendous Number of young people listening and watching now on YouTube and TikTok and so forth. And so, because the guy, we were at a nice hotel in California last weekend playing golf, and the young man that was taking our car and parking it for us was just an incredible young guy. I got to talk to him a long time, but he just came up and he went on and on, oh, I love Dave. You're Dave Ramsey. Oh, my God. He was like starstruck. And I'm like, dude, it's just me. It's okay. What are you working on? Tell me what you're doing. And he told me his whole story is just incredible. Young dude, those guys are everywhere. And so I'm kind of talking to him. It's kind of who I've got in my head right now. Because he's dating some girl. I'm sure he didn't bring that up, but I'm sure he is. And you know, you got to be thinking about, okay, what's the. What can I do to make this the love of my life? The highest probability of success.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, you do have to think like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's being a grown up and stuff.

[George Kamel]

I think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you just took all the romance out of it. No, baby, let me tell you what romance is. Romance is 43 years. That's freaking romance. And I would rather spend time with her than any of you. Okay, Best friends. So that. That's romance. So you don't get to get there without this other stuff. Yeah, because you get. You kill each other.

[George Kamel]

That's true. That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gabriel's in Pittsburgh. Hey, Gabriel. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm just wondering. I'm going to kind of quit my job that I'm really not interested in anymore. Want to see if I should quit it so that way I can go to college and pursue the job that I actually want to have.

[George Kamel]

What's the job you actually want to have?

[Ken Coleman]

I want to become a production designer.

[George Kamel]

A production designer. Tell us what that does.

[Ken Coleman]

So they're the ones who oversee and show everything that happens. Like in the movies, TV commercials, everything that you see on camera. They're the ones responsible for that.

[Dave Ramsey]

When have you done that?

[Ken Coleman]

I haven't done it yet. I've just been researching it ever since I was in high school and I was getting into. I studied acting, directing, lighting, technology, all sorts of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where did you study that?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I studied it while I was in high school and currently I'm in acting right Now I do like community theater and that sort of thing. I study my own time.

[George Kamel]

Is there someone that does that in your acting studio? Like when you go do your acting, is there someone that does that job there?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's a community theater, so I actually will even work the tech booth and I will get insight from everyone who's done acting outside of that theater.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who built your sets?

[Ken Coleman]

So it's all live on stage. So there's some people who come in and volunteer and help do costumes and design.

[Dave Ramsey]

That would be you.

[Ken Coleman]

But yeah, well, I'm actually, I do the acting. I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honey, we're just saying if you want to do that stuff, you ought to be doing that stuff.

[George Kamel]

And they're. You're surrounded by people who are doing that stuff that you can learn from is what we're saying.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you don't need a four year degree to doing that. If you were in Hollywood or you were in Atlanta, which are probably the two largest soundstage areas right now, if you were on one of those stages, you would not find a lot of four year degree to people building those sets.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so now would that be for like everyone? Like even the ones doing the movies and stuff too?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's the soundstage. That's where they do movies on sound stages.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Okay. So they usually just do it through experience.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there's very few of them. Some of them have art degrees, some of them have graphic arts degrees. They all have a bent the way that you do, which is towards you're a creative, that's how you're wired, which is wonderful. And I want you to pursue this. I just don't. I don't think a four year degree is necessary for you to go do. Might be, but I doubt it. I'm not an expert on the space. I've never hired anybody to do what you do full time. I mean, we have a lot of stages built and things for Ramsey, but they're a little different than what you're talking about. And so event stages and so forth, which are way different than theater or the move, certainly different than movie. But I think you'll find that there's a lot of technology involved and a lot of, a lot of apprenticeship type roles that. That's what I would have you get into. If I were your dad, I would say move to LA or move to Atlanta. Move to Atlanta and start working and go push a broom first if you have to and be around those people and then tell them, I'll help you stand that thing up. Oh, I'll help you move that chair. I'll help you with this paintbrush and you just work your way in and ingratiate yourself to the folks. Even if you had to work a side job somewhere else, I would rather you do that and work your way into the business. I'm gonna send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book the Proximity Principle, which is what I'm describing to you. Get in the proximity of people doing what you want to do. You might discover Dave Ramsey's full of it. And you do need a four year degree. If you do, then go get you a four year degree. But if I were you, I would move to where it's actually happening and go do it. Let me tell you something. Most home security systems don't work until after someone breaks in. That's like putting your seatbelt on after the wreck. It's too late. And that's why I recommend SimpliSafe. Their active guard outdoor protection helps stop break ins before they happen. Their AI powered cameras work together with live SimpliSafe agents to monitor your property in real time. So if someone's creeping around your house, those agents can talk to them, trigger the spotlight and even call the police right then and there. It's proactive protection, not just a dressed up burglar alarm. Plans start at around a dollar a day. There are no contracts and no hidden fees and they offer a 60 day money back guarantee. So see why over 4 million Americans trust SimpliSafe. Cy Newsweek and USA Today both ranked SimpliSafe number one in customer service and why CNET named it the best home security system of 2025. Plus right now you can get 50% off a new SimpliSafe system with 24, 7 professional [e-mail] that's 50% [e-mail] there's no safe like SimpliSafe. Jade Washall Ramsey personality is my co host. Derek is in St. Louis. Hi Derek, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Hello Mr. Ramsey. Thank you so much for having me on today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

I have a question here. I just wanted some question some Christian advice for my finances. I just graduated from dental school on Saturday and now I'm a dentist and I signed a two year contract with an office and my daily minimum is $1200 a day and I currently have $215,000 worth of debt to my parents and that's at 0% interest. I still live at home and I commute to work about 40 minutes and I'm looking to move out. And, I mean, I still get along with my parents, and I can still live here probably for another two years, but I'm 26 years old and I kind of want to get out of the house. And I'm just kind of looking for some advice how I should be investing my money, how quickly I should be paying my parents back. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's a lot of debt.

[George Kamel]

It's a lot of debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

I mean, I am. I would be interested in moving out. You said you're 26? Yeah, I'd be interested in moving out. And maybe closer to where you're working, since you've got that commute. And then. Is this your only debt? Is this the only thing you have?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's only 215,000. I mean, it is a lot.

[George Kamel]

I say only, but 215 or 250?

[Ken Coleman]

$215,000.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're making 350 a year?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the year before you graduated from dental school, your income was what.

[Ken Coleman]

Zero. I mean, zero dollars?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. So if you were to move out into a tiny little apartment and your car is paid for, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you don't borrow any money and you don't go on vacation and you don't go out to eat and you pay your dad back in a year.

[Ken Coleman]

That'S the plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

That would be fine with me. Yeah, I would do that. I would do that. I think that is good. And honestly, I don't think Christian has anything to do with that, by the way. I think it's just a matter of. It's a developmental thing. And the only thing that comes into Christian here is you don't want to be in debt. The borrower is slave to the lender, and you want to honor your father and mother. And we're not going to dishonor them with either one of these answers. And we're not going to not pay the debt with either one of these answers. So there's not a Christian answer versus a non Christian answer? Christian answer to the question. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. I think you can do this lickety split. I mean, if you make 350 and.

[Dave Ramsey]

You live on 100, no investing, no saving, no life. You had no life last year.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, last eight years of my life. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got one more year. So let me tell you one of the things we've observed, Derek, and it'll help you, I think, if we frame it this way. We call it Doc Itis. Okay. So One of the things you have been able to do that virtually none of the rest of the public in the United States has the ability to do fabulously complementary to you is that you have the ability to delay pleasure beyond belief for a greater good. I mean, you've been in school forever, you've been sacrificing, you've been nosed to the grindstone, you've been holding your breath, however we want to say it, while for eight years after your buddies graduated from high school, you have delayed gratification to get a greater win. And docs do that, and dentists do that, lawyers do that, because you're doing a lot of postgraduate work, in other words. And what ends up happening, though, in those professions, because you make a lot of money when you come out, hypothetically, and you are making a lot of money, thank goodness, is that you've been holding your breath so long, and people, when they graduate and finally get the job, they exhale. And the exhale sounds like new BMW on a new house.

[Ken Coleman]

No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's called doc itis. Because all the young broke docs and dentists have bigger debt than docs do. On average, a lot of dentists we talk to are450. Okay. And so, you know, so a lot of young dentists and docs have nice houses, nice cars, and an eight year plan to get out of debt. And because they felt like they deserved, finally, that's the trophy to get something.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that's called doc itis. And so just avoid doc itis. Don't catch the disease. Keep living like a broke dental student for one more year and put this whole thing in the rearview mirror because then, dude, you're making 400k and you got zero debt. You know how fast you're going to be a multi millionaire? It's going to be unbelievable.

[Ken Coleman]

Mm. Yeah, I think that's. That's probably gonna be the plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

And don't sign up for a half million dollars to buy into a practice either.

[Ken Coleman]

Mm. That's my long term goal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Save up and pay for.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have this wonderful income. Keep your stinking lifestyle down, clear your dad, bank some money and get ready to buy a practice with cash. You do that, by the time you're 30. Yes. You're a stud, man. I'm proud of you.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate it. And I think I know my answer to this and keep my nose to the grindstone and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. One year. One year. Yeah. Hey, dad. In one year.

[George Kamel]

I think you stunned him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's good he's good. He's good. I mean, you know how many times we all we had. I like that. That's a good call.

[George Kamel]

That is a good call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good stuff.

[George Kamel]

Before he. Before it was worse. He called before it got worse, which is good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Way to go. Carol is Houston. Hi, Carol, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm fine, thanks.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Jade Weshall]

Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mom just recently passed and I haven't moved anything yet. Thank you.

[Jade Weshall]

But I wanted to get some advice on. On suggestions on where to be moving her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Her money into.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay, so let's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Her money is now your money. Yes.

[Jade Weshall]

I'm sold. Beneficiary.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long ago did she pass?

[Jade Weshall]

Almost one month ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry, what happened?

[Jade Weshall]

Alzheimer's.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old was she?

[Jade Weshall]

96 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

Long life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, Mom. All right.

[Jade Weshall]

She wanted to live as long as her dad and she got her wish. She died before one day before her 97th birthday.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much did she leave you?

[Jade Weshall]

A little over half a million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. And how much did you have before that?

[Jade Weshall]

About the same amount I had. I have saved and invested.

[Dave Ramsey]

So are you 70?

[Ken Coleman]

No. You're good.

[Dave Ramsey]

71. Well, I guess the 96 year old might have. Might have had you when he's 26. It wasn't hard, but yeah. Okay. Wow. I know.

[Jade Weshall]

I'm 71.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm retired. Okay. Well, the first thing we want to do is we want to honor mom's memory by doing stuff with the money that, that abides by the common sense that mom used to get the money. She also has passed that on to you. That's why you already have a half a million.

[Jade Weshall]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

You already have common sense. So I'm going to tell you to trust your instincts first and foremost. Okay. You're your mother's daughter. Yes. You're capable of doing this. Okay.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the things that we would do with it is we would walk you up the baby steps.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. So you, you are worth 500,000 now, I'm assuming you have no debt or is there still some debt in the picture?

[Dave Ramsey]

No debt at all.

[George Kamel]

Including your house?

[Jade Weshall]

Including my house.

[George Kamel]

Wow. Way to go. That's excellent. So you're really. This is just an open field for you. How did you receive the money? Is it property? Is it land? Is it.

[Jade Weshall]

I would say most of it's all going to be bank accounts. We sold her home and moved her closer to me when, you know, the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dementia started and everything.

[Jade Weshall]

So we sold her home and between the sale of the home and her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Savings is where she has been able.

[Jade Weshall]

To achieve a half a million.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got kids. They're grown now. You got grandkids?

[Jade Weshall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[George Kamel]

And all the money is liquid. None of it's invested. Right.

[Ken Coleman]

With.

[Dave Ramsey]

With Mom, I would say it's all.

[Jade Weshall]

Liquid with the exception of two cemetery plots. And after we go over her finances, I was gonna make mention of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And tell you my options. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, not you.

[Jade Weshall]

I'm. I'm not using the cemetery plots.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why I wanted to run something. I would just sell them.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, you could sell them off. I also would recommend getting with a smartvestor pro and trying to invest some of this money because it's just sitting in savings accounts. It's not growing to its full potential. And so that would probably be my first move. And like I said, you can go to ramseysolutions.com trusted to find someone to help you invest this money.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm 64, and I would put it in four types of mutual funds with a pro Growth Growth and Income Aggressive Growth International.

[Chris Hogan]

There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting. But you don't want to do it forever, because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner. You can rely on Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey, trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership. Wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. Get started on the American dream of home ownership [e-mail] that's churchillmortgage.com.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you wonder where your money's going, your first step should be getting on a plan. It's called a budget. Our team's hosting a free, free, free budgeting trainings, several of them this month. And you can learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget using the EveryDollar app. Plus, you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live. Q and A. Spots are limited. Sign up for [e-mail] webinar. Today's R.A. ramsey Show. Question of the day is sponsored by why Refi? When you're tired of making no progress on your defaulted private student loans, why Refi can help you explore a fresh start with low fixed rate refinancing. So it's time to stop spinning your wheels and go to yrefi.comramsey and learn more. That's why the letter Y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[George Kamel]

All right. Today's question comes from Amy in Tennessee. She says, how do you feel about the those buy homes for cash companies? Our home has been on the market for months with no offers and we're running out of time to close on our new home. I could tell you what I think. Dave's probably going to be the expert on this. But my initial thought says if they're buying a home for cash, they know you're desperate. They're probably going to give you a lower offer because it's in cash. And my bigger question to you would be why is it not selling? There's probably a reason, maybe something that you can take care of or handle as to why it's not selling. Maybe it's not priced right. Maybe your home has a weird smell, like maybe there's something going on. Maybe it's your realtor. So those are the questions I'd, I'd probably be asking first. Buy homes for cash feels maybe it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

The realtor that has a weird smell.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, maybe the realtor has a weird smell. Trust me, you don't want that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry.

[George Kamel]

I mean, you know those signs that you see on the corner and they're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like handwritten, Those are called wholesalers, meaning that they are buying the property for flipping. And if they're going to buy it at a price that they can resell it and make a profit. Low ball, that's called a wholesale price and you're not going to like that price. That means you are super desperate to buy this other house that you should probably just let go because you probably have a contingency on closing on the new home. And the contingency says if your house hasn't sold that you're not required to close and you probably shouldn't close on it unless you can get rid of this other one without giving it away. I mean, are you going to give up an extra 50 or $100,000 or whatever the number is in order to just get this other property? Yeah. So.

[George Kamel]

But there's nothing like negative about those cash buyers. Like they're not doing anything wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

I Mean, some of them are slimy, but mostly it's just they're buying the property to resell. It's like a car dealer buying your car.

[George Kamel]

That's right. They're going to give you the lowest.

[Dave Ramsey]

They'Re going to give you a wholesale on it trade in value because they're going to resell it at the retail value. You and they make money, they make the profit on the difference in wholesale and retail and that's, they want that spread, you know, that's so I mean if Carvana or Carmax is not going to give you as much for your car as private sale will. And so in most cases, I mean there's very, very few exceptions to that. And that's true in the housing market. Now there are a few proper people buying single families out there that are buying them to hold long term and they're not individuals or more like hedge fund types types. And they're paying like retail. So if you want to get a price from one of them, it's probably not the sign on the corner. But you know what you've got to do is you have to get away from this sense of desperation that I, I'm running out of time. This, this, the way the sentence is structured tells me you're getting ready to give your house away and I don't want you to do that.

[George Kamel]

Well, she's already found a kitchen that.

[Dave Ramsey]

She would rather be cooking in. She done got the fever, so. There we go. Taylor is in San Francisco. Hi Taylor, how are you?

[Bianca]

Hi, I'm great. How are you all today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Bianca]

Great. My husband and I have a child and we would love to consider having another but we have some debt. So I'm just calling to ask about that.

[George Kamel]

Why wouldn't you get pregnant today?

[Bianca]

Well, that's not specifically in our hands but we're big fans of doing every dollar budget and DAV Ramsey show. So we know that, you know, we need to save up before we have that child. We have about 97,000 on a HELOC and that's all that we have. But we're just, we're looking at that from a perspective of I'm now a full time stay at home mom. And what's your household income?

[Ken Coleman]

It's around 65 is our bring home in San Francisco.

[George Kamel]

Who tight like tight like a tiger. That's, that's tough. San Francisco, right in the city.

[Bianca]

Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I'm guessing things are tight.

[Bianca]

Yes sir. Yes sir, it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Okay. I Mean, I'm all for, I will tell you this, I'm all for entering parenthood and motherhood with your eyes wide open and kind of thinking through what that can mean cost wise, while at the same time I would not necessarily delay it unless you could really. Unless you decide together, hey, we're just going to do this for the next year and then go forward. It's got to be a decision that you make together. It's not a Ramsey principle to say you must be out of debt before you have a child. And I think I heard you say something about saving up for a kid and what we mean by that. It's not to say you, you don't get pregnant until you've saved up this money. It's simply to say that if you're walking through the baby steps and you find that you are pregnant, you can pause the baby steps and save up cash during that process. Does that make sense? Okay, so, I mean, yeah, because I.

[Ken Coleman]

Just, I feel like everything is so.

[Bianca]

Tight and with my husband being in a ministry type position, there's not really an opportunity for more. Does that make sense? Yeah, unless I go back to work. And I think that we both feel called for me staying at home. So I think we're just kind of in that. We're obviously praying through that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You live in one of the most expensive markets in America and you have a below average household income. Okay, that's what I was observing. That's why I went San Francisco. Yeah, so that's why I said that. So, I mean, you're obviously called there in the ministry and that's wonderful. I'm glad you're there. And the thing is, we don't want to. No, we don't delay having children based on income or based on debt. That's not a Ramsey principle. But we do use common sense in looking at these things overall. I mean, whether you have a child or not, you have a tight budget and you live in an expensive market and you have $97,000 in debt. Having a child is not really going to be the major issue that affects that. What's going to affect that is something that happens to the income or something that happens to the area you live in. And so you become a minister in another city, a pastor in another city that you can more afford to live in or at a better income, or you look at that church looks at paying more in this situation. I don't know. But I mean, long term, whether you've got one kid or two kids, you have a tight budget and you need a plan.

[George Kamel]

And I think that's what it boils down to is what is the plan versus just kind of saying, we'll see what happens. You. You come up with what you think that because plans can change. You come up with what you think the plan would be if you had a child here in the new. In the near future. And you come up with what the plan would be if you waited. And then you. You look at it from both angles. Because on the show, Dave, you know as much as I do, people tend to look at it from one side, which is the best possible scenario, instead of looking at it as well. What happens if that's not the case? And then what would we do then? So that's my best advice to you. I can tell you that Sam and I delayed having kids because of very similar issues. It just the income wasn't there yet, and we did have a lot of debt. It was a personal decision and one that I do not regret.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And. But we, but again, what Jade says. True. We don't. As a, as a blanket thing on the show, we don't give advice to say, you know, don't have children because of financial situation. I mean, I, you know, I do think some common sense is involved. Don't have 16 children.

[George Kamel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, when you make 16,000 a year. I mean, come on. I mean, there's. That. There's some common sense involved in this. But, but thinking about it in general, don't. Don't wait to get married.

[George Kamel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because of dad.

[George Kamel]

But do think about what it means for you to be home, like, and you're starting to do that. What does it mean for us to go down to one income? What will that look like? As opposed to not thinking about it at all. Think about if you're a person who will do daycare. What does it look like for us to pay for daycare once they hit six or seven months old or whatever the, Whatever the plan may be. Think through it. Don't just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. According to scripture, they're doing four things that are all godly.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're adding arrows to their quiver. She wants to stay home and be there with the kids. He wants to serve the Lord in the ministry. They want to get out of debt. All of those things are biblical. And so I'm going to ask Father for some help.

[George Kamel]

Explain.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, dad. Hey, God, I need some help here.

[George Kamel]

Explain the. Add arrows to the quiver for the folks who don't know what that is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Proverbs about having children.

[Jade Weshall]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. More arrows in your quivers, more children that you can release into the world. Hopefully they're fly straight. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I used to be one of those guys.

[George Kamel]

I didn't even think about it.

[Ken Coleman]

And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch. And.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too.

[Ken Coleman]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here and you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's gonna invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's gonna eat tomorrow.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family.

[Ken Coleman]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah, to just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washall Ramsey, personality number one best selling author, is my co host today. Open phones here at 888. Kyle is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Kyle, how are you? Hi. I'm doing well. How about yourself, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi, I'm calling today because I'm looking for some biblical counsel on navigating conflict within a family business. Wow. Something you might know something about. Well, I know something about conflict and I know something about family business. So we'll try. Oh my gosh. Wow. What's going on, dude? I feel today I'm at a crossroads and like I said, I'm trying to seek some Biblical guidance. But long story short is I left a successful corporate career working for a Fortune 500 company about five years ago, joined my father and my younger brother in the business with a shared plan.

[Ken Coleman]

To eventually take over.

[Dave Ramsey]

As my father stepped out about six months ago, there was a little bit of a falling out that was building. After my brother has pulled a little away from the business, reduced his hours, ultimately moving out of state and became increasingly disengaged. I confronted him about a little bit of the imbalance and felt I was almost being taken advantage of. And that combined with some tension with my father, ultimately left him in quitting the business. Since then, I've taken on a whole host of his responsibility. All the while he continues to benefit financially, receiving the same distributions, still a small salary, health benefits and perks as if nothing's changed. And the long story short is, you know, I shared some of my displeasure with my father about the situation, but he doesn't want to go back on any of the equitable arrangement, even though it's coming at my expense. And I want to handle the situation in a godly way. But I'm feeling a little bit exhausted, slightly resentful, and I'm unsure how to move forward. And trying to get some counsel. How old's your dad? He is 65 this year. What's the top line revenue of the business? About 30 million. Okay. All right. Well, the family business research that we have done, one of the things it taught me, there's a guy that is probably, I guess one of the Mount Rushmore guys in that space. His name is John Ward and he's a professor. I believe it's University of Michigan or Minnesota, one of the two, can't remember. Anyway, I bought a $39 book that was about an inch thick from him, but the information was worth it. And so one of the things in it was a Venn diagram. And the Venn diagram has three circles obviously intersecting in the middle. You know what that looks like? One says one of the circles is owner, one is family, and one is team member or employee. Okay. And so for instance, your mom would be or your cousin would be family, but not an employee and not an owner. Agreed?

[Ken Coleman]

Agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your dad would be owner, employee and family member. You would be owner, family member, employee. And so that diagram helped me to say I've got to keep these three things separate. So it is, I run into a lot of family businesses that are run successfully where the owners are not necessarily all working there, they're not paid a salary and they're not paid benefits as an employee, but they are paid profit distributions because they're one of the owners.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not unusual to be like a stockholder in a company that doesn't work at that. You know, you can buy stock at Home Depot and not work there and get distributions of their profits and so forth. And so that could be your brother, but he does need to get off the payroll and I don't care if you give him health benefits. Whoopty doop. But you know, the, then the thing is, okay, when your dad hands this over to you, you're then going to be a 50% owner or what with your brother? 30. Each of us have 30, 33. There's, there's four total owners. There's 35 for my father, 30 for my brother and I and five for another employee. Ah, okay. What's going to happen to your dad's shares when he's gone? He could choose to retain them still as a passive equity owner, just I guess like how my brother is today. Or there's a potential that perhaps some of it could flow my way. Right. So your dad has. Any two of you can outvote your dad. Not the 5% guy, but the other two. So you and your brother could outvote your dad. You and your dad could outvote your brother. So your brother and your dad could outvote you. Okay, so, so the way that the, the operating agreement is actually structured is that although my father only has 35% of the equity, he has 100% of the vote. Okay. So he decides when is he going to give that up? Never. That's the million dollar question.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Because what happens when he gives that up is then that you would be, you need to be have controlling interest or you need to be sitting in that seat in the operating role to where you can decide what is distributed to the, to the non employee family. Okay, so your dad's at home and retired, your brother's working another job in North Carolina or wherever and you're the only one there. But they own 35 and 30. And when you do distribute profits to the owners, they're going to get their share, but you're going to be sitting in the operating seat. That's what we've got to solve for. And you don't have to solve for today, but you need a path to get there. And your dad needs to take your brother off the payroll today. That's not equitable. I don't care if he gets health benefits. Whoopty doopty I don't care if he gets a company's cell phone. Whoopty doop. That's not a deal breaker. The deal breaker is control issues here and then the distribution. So if your dad. Are you underpaid?

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Then you're paid for your position, by the way, when you're the CEO and you're in control in the governing and the operating role. Okay. You also only collect a salary equivalent to a CEO of a $30 million company. All other profits need to be distributed to you and everyone else. So you don't get to double your salary to keep your brother from getting something. That would be. That would be unethical. Correct. I'm not trying to be punitive as well, but I agree with you there. But that. But. But I think the issue here is what you don't see is you don't see the old man walking out. I think your problems with the old man, it's not with your brother. Your brother's just shined a light on it. You're probably right. Yeah. He's got founder itis. And founder itis is those of us that start something, we're freaking hard hit heads. We. Otherwise we wouldn't have been able to build. Well, he built a $30 million company from nothing. He's a hardhead.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's his second one too. I agree with you. And he can be a pain in the butt. That's how he got here. I know this guy. I look at him in the mirror. Okay. And so. But that. That's what you're dealing with. And dad, we need a plan where you're going to hand this thing off instead of me leaving it. It all getting destroyed. Because if I don't see a plan, I'm starting to lose hope. And this emotional stuff with the brothers brought it all to a head. And so we need to. That's the way we, you know, we need to solve for 10 years from today and stage gate what has to happen. What are the things that has to happen for us to get to that point 10 years from today and solve for it.

[George Kamel]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's be honest. Shopping for health insurance can be confusing with high costs, complicated terms, and customer service that doesn't really serve you. Most folks just pick a plan and hope for the best. See, insurance companies don't work for you. They work for themselves. Meaning they love it when you overpay. So you need a guide on your team to help you make the best, best choices. Health Trust Financial works for you. They're not Salespeople. They help you find the health insurance option that makes sense and saves you money. The fact is, health insurance is one of the biggest expenses in your budget. But most people who work with Health Trust Financial end up saving 500amonth. Imagine putting that kind of money toward the baby steps. My team is working, worked with them for over 20 years and they've served thousands of people just like you. They're the only health insurance broker that's Ramsay trusted to help you. So stop throwing money away and get the health insurance that's right for you @health trust financial.com. that's health trust financial.com Josh is in Pittsburgh. Hey Josh. How are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Better than I deserve. You know. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just the same. How can I help?

[Ken Coleman]

Doing great. I got a question. How to combine finances with my wife when one spouse isn't willing to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why isn't she willing to?

[Ken Coleman]

I think maybe some of the long term money goals. I guess I'm wanting to put more towards investments and maybe she doesn't see the value in some of that.

[George Kamel]

Is this your first marriage? Both.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you guys?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm 24. She's 25.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you been married?

[Ken Coleman]

Just over two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. Perfect.

[George Kamel]

I have a feeling it's probably not so much about her not wanting to do this. It might be the way it's being approached. How are, what's, what's a, what's a conversation sound like? Let's role play you. I'll pretend I'm her and you, you come to me how you've been coming to her.

[Ken Coleman]

So I guess I would just ask her and say.

[George Kamel]

I just like. Let me set you up. I, I, I'm, I'm making dinner. I bought groceries today and I went over the budget again. What do you do?

[Ken Coleman]

So I guess I just, I just tired. Like, like mathematically, like bringing our values and goals together makes more sense to both be working on something.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do for a living?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm a pilot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I thought so. Okay. You're wonderful. You are what I call a super nerd. You are going to be so rich if you learn how to talk to your wife. But your mind works only on math and on details. You are a detail fiend. You've done spreadsheets at 1am when you couldn't sleep because you think they're fun.

[George Kamel]

Spreadsheets.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. You're gonna, you're really gonna do well.

[Ken Coleman]

But can I say something?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. Am I wrong?

[Ken Coleman]

You're right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So, So I know you guys are completely against that and I think so. I was in high school when I first heard about you guys. I guess it's 2017, 2018. And some of the people that I've been influenced by, they like their multi millionaires, they recommend when it comes to business. And I kind of like when you guys talk about psychology and behavioralism, it's not about all the math, it's about financial peace. And so I feel like I'm at a crossroads of that, I guess. My wife actually is totally more on board without no debt. But she's also not into investments. Even considering all that, the way you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Approach it, sure, very few I would be into it the way you approach it. You would have turned my wife off though, I can tell you that, because I did doing the same kind of crap you're doing. So yeah, it doesn't work. So here's the thing. She feels like that she. You don't want to. It's not your intention because you're not this person. But she feels like she's being preached at by you, you. And she thinks if she goes along with you that you guys are going to live in a cave, collect lint and never come out except on triple coupon Thursday. That's how she feels. She's afraid if she goes along with you, she has given up life on the planet as any normal human being knows it because you're going to save everything. And every time she gets her nails done, she's going to get shamed. That's how she feels. I'm not saying you're that guy, but that's the vibe you're putting off to Jade and me.

[George Kamel]

I think for you, if you can talk to her in pictures instead of numbers, it would go a long, long way.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I want her to understand her vote counts equal to yours. You do not have a superior vote because you have a superior math skill. You only get one vote, she gets the other one. In case of a tie, you lose. True. She's got to get this message that her voice is being heard. So honey, when we sit down and do a budget, if you don't have enough fun in there and you don't have enough facials in there, that's going to be your fault because you have a vote. And I want us to agree on our long term goals. Our long term goal is to build what, wealth? Our long term goal is to avoid debt. Our long term goal is to work together because the families that do that have the most successful marriages and statistically have the highest probability of becoming millionaires. 80% of the millionaires that we have studied, and we studied over 10,000 of them said they worked together with their spouse combined and in sync. And not one of them doing what the other one was told. They're not doing what they told. They were not a handmaiden or they were not a husband that didn't have a brain and his mommy took care of him in the form of a wife. These were two, like grownups and crap that worked together. And you get together with her, but all she's hearing is she knows your nerd tendencies. And I gotta tell you, she's real proud of that. When you land an airplane safely. I'm real proud of that. When you land an airplane safely, by the way. And so that's what allows you to do that, is all these nerd tendencies. These are the nerd tendencies. You know, one of my good friends is a pilot. He went out for a flight last Saturday and he was doing. The aircraft wasn't flying. It was a small plane, but it wasn't airworthy. And he walked away because he's a super nerd. There's no chance. All that was missing was the gas cap. They could have put a gas cap on it. He walked away and went back on. These are the pilots that don't wreck airplanes. Okay, thank you. I thank you for who you are, but you've got to. This is more of a collaboration than it is a flight plan. And if you can get her to hear that vibe off of you instead of this super nerd vibe, then you guys can work together. And it took a while because the first seven years of our 43 year marriage, my wife will tell you that her vote didn't count. I didn't tell her it didn't count. I just got a big personality and did whatever the flip I wanted to do and she just went along with it. Whatever you want to do, honey. Which is Southern for you're doing it wrong. That's passive aggressive is what that is. And so, you know, whatever you want to do, honey. Yeah, right. I'm going to tell you later that that was stupid, but right now, just you go. You just do whatever you want to do. And that's the first seven years of our marriage because super nerd here had it all figured out and I wrecked the plane in my case.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So keeping the metaphor alive here, but yeah. But the. Yeah. So, Josh, I think you're gonna do very, very well. You're smart and. No, you're not smart. You're wise for asking the question that tells me, you know, that there's a relational problem you don't know how to solve, and it's not a math problem. And that's brilliant on your part because that's gonna lead you to wealth.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I think that's good. I think a good question in those situations.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, talk more about talking in pictures and not words. I stepped on you when you said that.

[George Kamel]

That's all right. That's all right. I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking there's something that she's seeing you do, like you said, that's just boring, boring, boring. And you're talking about numbers and math and what we can have numbers wise. But a better way to talk about is what does the future look like? What is. What does the future look like to you, dear? And she can paint that picture, and I think that's a lot clearer. I know for Sam and I, one of the clear pictures I had in my head that was a motivator was I had this vision of taking my kids to school. School. And dropping them off and being there when they were at a school.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a picture.

[George Kamel]

It's a picture.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that means you got to be able to not work all the time.

[George Kamel]

Right. And what. How do you work backwards from that? So maybe take her on a date and say, tell me what your picture of the future looks like. What do you picture when you think about us being successful? What do you picture? And really that's, that's your homework is to really keep it in pictures. Don't mention numbers a single time. Ask her what she pictures when she pictures a peaceful lifestyle. Peace financially. And then you can get to know her a little bit better in that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then let's have a dream date and do it in high definition. Hd. Hd. Let's get into details. And oh, by the way, Josh, you're not doing much talking at this.

[George Kamel]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

A lot of listening. A lot of listening and just asking clarifying questions. That's your max.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, lots of questions.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, and they're not passive aggressive questions. You're like, you crazy. That's not a question. And so you know that, that you know. But yeah, just ask clarifying questions. And then, you know, what if we got. What if I got a $10 million signing bonus? What does our. What does our life look like?

[George Kamel]

And ask her what her spending love language is. Ask her that. That's a good one.

[Dave Ramsey]

What, what's yours?

[George Kamel]

Probably convenience or like self care.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. I got you. Okay. All right. I know what mine and Rachel's is. Experience.

[George Kamel]

Experiences. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

For sure. This, this is the Ramsey show.

[Chris Hogan]

All right. Dave, you have some strong opinions possibly. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non profit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric.

[Chris Hogan]

Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

[Chris Hogan]

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach, they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Chris Hogan]

And I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I, I so, so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with [e-mail] or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 atm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fair Winds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

[Chris Hogan]

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fair Winds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org Ramsey Fair Winds.

[Ken Coleman]

Is federally insured by NCUA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Justin and Casey are on the debt free stage. Wow. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Hey, guys, how are you?

[Derek]

We're fantastic. Thank you for having us.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're honored to have you. Where do y' all live?

[Rachel Cruze]

St. Louis, Missouri.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, fun. Welcome to Nashville and How much debt have you2 paid?

[Rachel Cruze]

$181,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Love it. How long did that take?

[Rachel Cruze]

24 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. And the range of income during that two years? Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

That was about 170,000, then down to 120,000, then back up to 230,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Nice jump. What do y' all do for a living?

[Derek]

I work in the fertility field, so I make IVF babies.

[George Kamel]

Wow.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I'm a car salesman.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And so one of you was unemployed for a hot minute.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, I was selling cars and then tried to make a career change and went down in income. In case he wasn't too happy about.

[Derek]

It, I warned him.

[Rachel Cruze]

Warned me. And then about five months later, I went back to car sales at my job. And the other money that we kind of added, the side hustle, I started landscaping.

[George Kamel]

Oh.

[Rachel Cruze]

And because I did that before, I sold cars. So for the first little bit, I had a 15 Subaru. I was putting mulch bags on the top of the car. Car doing. Put my name up in the Our Webster Groves community page. It's our town's Facebook page, and it was a honey hole. And then I work at a car dealership. So we got married in 21. Didn't combine our finances until April of 23. Just, you know, and when we kind of hopped on that, it was incredible. And April of 23 to April of 25, and, you know, knocked it out. We.

[Dave Ramsey]

What kind of Debt was the 180 there?

[Derek]

Student loans, credit cards. Our first year marriage. We owed almost 10,000 to the government, and that's.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah. Student loans, two cars, a Peloton.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cars.

[George Kamel]

Gotta have the peloton.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, Peloton tread and clothes hanger.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Clothes rack.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I bought a. Bought a truck in 2024, and it really ramped everything up in May of 24. So I was making about. In 2024, I made about 28 grand on the side hustle. Then 32 on 25 on top of the car sales. And I was working seven days a week for two years. Rain or shine, she cooked every breakfast, lunch, and dinner for two years. Just absolutely battled together. And we're gazelle, intense, and just, you know, after work Thursday.

[Dave Ramsey]

So wait a minute. The story's running together. What was the moment where you said, okay, enough. I'm calling B.S. this has got to change?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, we were probably right around that April in 2023, we, you know, owed eight grand to the IRS, and I just hated being normal. I felt like so Average. So ridiculous, us just making too much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Money to be this bro.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, exactly. You know, had a good life. We were married. We were. We were, you know, but just so stagnant in how we felt. And, you know, none of the materialistic things made us happy. And we got so close to each other during this process. And how'd you find this?

[George Kamel]

How'd you find Ramsey?

[Rachel Cruze]

My brother Jay and his wife were doing it, and they. They did it as well. We were definitely being Davies. We're like, yeah, we don't. We're not gonna do it just like that. We'll do it our way. Didn't work. So Jay told us about that. Then we did. We bought the FPU class and we watched the first two episodes, and that's what really brought her around. Once we saw episode two, light switch for her and combining the finances and just incredible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Casey, what was it about that. What was the message in that that you heard?

[Derek]

So, like, he said, he was probably working on me a good three months before I. I, you know, is just. And I.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, you know, he's a car salesman, so he's trying to sell you.

[Derek]

I know, I know, but just. I just remember watching George up on stage talking about the debt free snowball, and just something clicked in my head. Just drowning in student loan debt, you know, $900 payments each month. It just seemed impossible and just.

[Dave Ramsey]

George made it sound possible.

[Derek]

Yes. Yes, Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's called hope.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Derek]

And it went. Once that switch went off, and I felt that it was like. I can't explain it. It's just such a surreal feeling.

[Rachel Cruze]

And, yeah. The budget is like a superpower. I mean, I don't know how every human being doesn't use a budget.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

After finding the Every Dollar app and. Yeah, you know, it's just a game changer.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Proud of you guys. Thank you.

[Derek]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Guys have been through a lot in just a couple of years of marriage.

[Derek]

Yes. Yep. It's so silly looking back at it, and we could have, you know, started this four or five years ago, but we're really glad that we did it when we did. And our relationship has just changed so much. It's just amazing. And we just. Thank you guys so much. And we're just so appreciative of everything.

[George Kamel]

And what was the hardest part?

[Rachel Cruze]

Maybe not eating out. We didn't eat out for two years except if we got gift cards.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So that was hard. And then we didn't see each other much. That was, you know, working. And she was just making all the meals.

[Derek]

And I tried. I tried to go to some side jobs, and we learned quick that it's best if I leave the landscaping to him. And then.

[George Kamel]

Well, you became a great cook, though, didn't you?

[Derek]

Yes. We learned really quick to leave him at home and not take him grocery shopping, because that just got out of control, you know, Started shopping at Aldi. Saved so much money doing that, and now I'm an Aldi girl.

[George Kamel]

Nice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Really work that budget down to get the margin. Like, that's what really clicked is just get that thing tight, and then every penny other than that goes to, you know, goes to the debt and now goes to anything we want, you know, and investing and all the good stuff. And we just really feel like because of this, we can do anything together. It's like winning the Stanley Cup. You know, you battle all year, and then you win that. Now you want to win more championships and. And just more good experiences together.

[Derek]

It's just only up from here, and we're just so excited.

[George Kamel]

What would you say to the couples? Because, you know, folks call in here all the time, they struggle to combine their money. I mean, you even said the first couple years you didn't have it together. So what does that look like? And why is it worth it?

[Derek]

It's scary, I mean, to think about it at first, because you're so set in your ways. Like, no, this is my money that I earned, and same with him. But once, you know, combining it was just looking back. It's so silly. Why didn't we do this?

[Rachel Cruze]

Trust each other, you know, trust each other and.

[Derek]

Communication.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, communicate. And, like, you say, why? Like, where do we see ourselves in a couple years? And if we're. If we see yourself there, what does it take? It takes communication and being together on it. You can't be together with money going different ways, you know, different places. You all got to know, you know where it's going.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have any trouble with both of you having a voice?

[Rachel Cruze]

No, no, no. We've always been. Even when we combine finances, it was just because we hadn't thought of it before, you know. You know, we didn't hear a show where you guys said to do it just iron, you know, ironically. So once I said, hey, let's do it, she's like, yeah, sure, no problem. It just was doing, you know, just.

[George Kamel]

Never thought of it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Just never thought of doing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then the efficiency goes way up.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. It streamlines it, like you said, and it just. You find more money. It's. It's incredible.

[Derek]

And just feel more of a team.

[George Kamel]

Well, you get the momentum of both of your efforts going towards one shared goal.

[Rachel Cruze]

Exactly.

[Derek]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Cruze]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Proud of you guys.

[George Kamel]

Thank you so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You didn't eat out for two years.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who made fun of you?

[Derek]

Oh, gosh, everybody.

[Rachel Cruze]

We had a lot of supporters as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

But people, you gotta sing a Toby Keith song now. How youw Like Me Now.

[Derek]

Yeah, exactly.

[George Kamel]

What was that debt free meal that you. You won't eat anymore?

[Derek]

Oh, my gosh.

[Rachel Cruze]

We used to have this thing for lunch. Like this porridge thing. Ground beef. Taco Bell ground beef and rice. What? I eat every day for lunch and dinner. Because she'd pack it. I was like, no more of this ground beef.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm done.

[Derek]

I like beef bowls.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Proud of you guys. So proud of you. Well done, guys.

[Derek]

Thank you so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Justin and Casey St. Louis, MO 181. $10,000 paid off in 24 months. What would you do to pay off 180? Would you eat? Would you not eat out for two years?

[George Kamel]

Rice and beans.

[Dave Ramsey]

To do rice and beef, that's kind of like rice and beans. 181,000 paid off making 170 to 120 to 230. They worked their butts off. They lived sacrificially. They worked together. They stayed on the budget using the EveryDollar app. They did the whole thing. They did it. They're debt free. And they got the rest of their lives to become millionaires and multimillionaires. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Derek]

Three, two, one.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're debt free.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. What would you give to work with your husband, to work with your wife in unity like that? Oh, it's a choice, darling. It's a choice.

[George Kamel]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Shelby is in Nashville. Hi, Shelby. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Bianca]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. My question is brief. I'm trying to figure out whether the person I'm dating is actually a scam artist or not with crypto. So backstory. We started talking about a month ago, and he has way more money than I do. I'm on baby step three, so I'm trying to save up for my six month emergency fund, but he's trying to get me to cash out my 401k to, I guess, fund crypto because he said he has this I guess, plan that he's been working for about three years, and he said it has a 90, like, money back. Like.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what does it. What does that sound like to you? What do you. I mean, you're calling us. What are you thinking?

[Bianca]

It sounds pretty sketchy, but when I've tried to talk to him about it, it's. Sorry. He keeps throwing it back. Like, if I'm making a wrong decision and it's really stressed me out. And I've tried talking to him about it, but he just keeps coming back with that I'm not making good financial choices.

[George Kamel]

He's trying to. It sounds like he's really manipulating you here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. All this emotion. Listen to this emotion.

[George Kamel]

I think you've got good instincts. You want to know what I think, Shelby? I think when something doesn't feel right, it's not right. Like, I think when you get that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Feeling in your life smells bad because it stinks.

[Bianca]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And it was enough to make you call. It was enough to make you call a radio show.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Bianca]

I'm 37 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. When did you leave the last bad relationship?

[Bianca]

Two and a half years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Toxic.

[Bianca]

Very much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. And so you were just really, really wishing this one wasn't.

[Bianca]

Right until it was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Until it. Until it was right. That's part of what makes you cry. It's not just him. It's just. You just. You just wanted this one to be okay, and it's not.

[Bianca]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because here's the thing. Even. Even if the advice was good, the process he's using on his girlfriend is toxic. Toxic. Would you agree with that?

[Bianca]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

The shaming and the gaslighting yeah. Yeah, for sure. And so I'm not sure if he's an idiot or a con man, but I am sure he's one of the two. Yeah, 100%. Anyone that tries to tell their someone that they love to cash out their 401k and put it in a crypto buy that has a 90% probability is either an idiot or a con man, because there's no such thing. Even the people that are legitimately doing crypto would tell you that. And those numbers just don't work. You don't put your 401k money in crypto even if you believe in crypto. You don't do that and you don't have a 90% play even if you believe in crypto. And anybody that believes that is either an idiot or a con man, because the numbers don't justify that. The market doesn't justify that. There is no such thing. Okay? And I'm not sure which one he is, but I can tell you this. My friend Shelby, who I love, doesn't need to be dating a guy who's an idiot or a con man. And he's one of the two. You're done. I'm sorry.

[Bianca]

One last question.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. Was that. Was I. I mean, was that. Was that too mean?

[Bianca]

No, no, that was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was that. Did that kind of ring inside of you? Like, I just touched the truth?

[Bianca]

Yeah. I just needed someone else's perspective from outside to tell me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Grandpa.

[Dave Ramsey]

Grandpa. Dad would box this guy's ears if he's trying to date my granddaughter. I'd run him off with something that was low.

[Bianca]

Do you think it would be too mean if I just kind of ghosted him?

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't really care what you do. There's 50 ways to leave your lover. You can do whatever you want. I don't care.

[George Kamel]

You've only known him for a month. Didn't you say?

[Bianca]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Where'd you meet?

[Bianca]

Online, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what I've decided? You know, you can just. Just send him a text, or you can send him an email, or you can call him. I don't care. And just say, I've decided that this is not working for me. Me. I have a good life. End of story. End of con. No conversation. We're not going to talk about crypto. We're not going to talk about con man. Now, I will tell you, just an added commentary, just for the fun. Does that all sound right to you, or did you think we were going to tell you something else?

[Bianca]

No, I was kind of hoping that you just set me straight?

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I'm not setting you straight. I'm setting him straight. You deserve some love. This guy needs to be set straight, not you. I was. I'm just agreeing what your brain was already telling you.

[Bianca]

Yeah. I guess I just needed to hear it from someone else.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Now, here's the deal. I've been walking around a long, long time, and I have gotten conned a lot more by enthusiastic ignoramuses than I have by con man. There's a lot more people who are enthusiastically stupid, including me, at times, than there are actual con men. That's why I can't tell what this guy is. And I really don't care. Either one is dangerous. An enthusiastic ignoramus will get you in as much trouble as Bernie Madoff. Okay. And so I don't care if he's an enthusiastic fool or if he is an actual con man. He's got some of the badges of con man.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a lot of the signals here. I don't run into this very often, but a lot of the signals are here.

[George Kamel]

Can I just ask, have you seen him in real life or is this all online?

[Bianca]

Oh, well, it's mostly online. I've been trying to meet him in person.

[George Kamel]

That's.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've never met him on person.

[George Kamel]

That's the con man part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait, wait, wait. You've never met him in person?

[Bianca]

That's right. So I've been.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you spell catfish?

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Bianca]

Not really enough. No, I can.

[George Kamel]

That's.

[Bianca]

Yeah. That's because I'm a single mom and my schedule just doesn't match. We haven't had a chance to meet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he doesn't exist, darling. Like, he's not even real. This is a con. There's not even a person over there. There's a boiler room working you. This is completely a con. I'm sorry. Good catch.

[George Kamel]

I just had a feeling.

[Dave Ramsey]

I went for the old guy.

[George Kamel]

That was just dumb.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you went. You. You got it. Now, this is a boiler room in Russia.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're trying to get your money. You worked, kiddo. This is a romance job. Oh, man.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

He doesn't even exist. That's even worse.

[George Kamel]

Well, that's how those.

[Dave Ramsey]

My last boyfriend didn't exist. I'm trying to get a real one this time. Okay. That's your next toy.

[George Kamel]

That's how these crypto things are. You meet online and then they start trolling, and next thing you know, you're talking about money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the lonely person is a target for sure.

[George Kamel]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sometimes it's old people. Sometimes it's somebody fresh off a breakup. That's why I asked about the former relationship. If you're fresh off a breakup, you're vulnerable. Wow.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, it's tough. You got to meet people. You got to see people in person.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you don't have a boyfriend, honey. You have a boiler room. There's eight people on the other end typing these things out. And occasionally they put a male voice with it from A.I. wow. You are. Yeah. That was con. Completely. Yeah, I. I changed my. I changed my answer. You don't even. Yes. You need to just ghost them.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, just ghost them.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got a thing on my text the other day that was a spam text, and it said you have an unpaid Tennessee traffic ticket.

[George Kamel]

Yes. Me too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they're going crazy with it right now. You got it, too? Yeah, Yeah, I got it. You got it, Everybody. The audience is getting them. This is so great.

[George Kamel]

It was pretty well written.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it is until you look at the email.

[George Kamel]

The email? Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

From elvisfan.com and so I just sent it, but I couldn't resist. Instead of just hitting it spam and go, you know, delete and all that. All this stuff. I just sent it back. Elvis fan, good luck with your con.

[George Kamel]

That's hilarious.

[Dave Ramsey]

And just sent it back and. But yeah, it. But it is very well written.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. That was one of the best ones I've seen, I have to say. What gave it away? Yeah, the number. The email on the number is what gave it away.

[Dave Ramsey]

Phone number. Yeah, it was something. Something. [e-mail]. yeah. Help me. Help me, Lord.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Poor Elvis. He gets drug into everything he did. Maybe he's not really dead.

[George Kamel]

There's always a sighting.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's always a sighting. Kind of like Bigfoot.

[George Kamel]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And her boyfriend. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jade. That's a good catch.

[George Kamel]

Well, I didn't want to say it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But, man, I was thinking it. You got that. You completely nailed it.

[George Kamel]

I already felt bad cuz she was heartbroken. I didn't want to make it worse by letting her know it wasn't even a real guy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, man, I'm glad you did. Is it helped. Help me because I'm so naive.

[George Kamel]

How many.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many of you out there are naive? Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Catfished for sure. Wow. Wow. You don't get that on other shows. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing Relationships. Jade Washall, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality. She's my co host. Today Destiny is in Orlando, Florida. Hi Destiny, how are you?

[Bianca]

Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Bianca]

My question is trying to navigate debt as a single mom on a part time, part time job. I'm doordashing currently and I have a little one year old boy who has come with a lot of medical debt as well as me trying to consolidate my own debt. And I'm currently living in a DV shelter trying to navigate our way out.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're living in a what shelter?

[Bianca]

A domestic violence shelter.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. How old are you hun?

[Bianca]

24.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And how much debt do you have personally?

[Bianca]

Collectively? About 18,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

That includes his medical debt?

[Bianca]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what was this precious boy born with? What's he struggling with?

[Bianca]

A number of things. So he was born with left heart syndrome. That means part of his heart was not developed correctly. He had several surgeries to take care of it. Meanwhile he now that he's on the up curve and he's seeing a lot of his milestones being hit, we're trying to get him into speech. He's one, he's turning two in September here and we're getting into speech and, and they possibly think he may have autism spectrum disorder. So I have a lot of extra doctors I need to bring him to like the speech therapist and the behavioral therapist. On top of being a single mom and trying to navigate his schedule as long as keeping a job, I did get a. Had a way better job before. I'm door dashing now. But back in January I was released from my other job, a patient advocacy job for people who have cancer to help them get their medication cheaper. But the job was terminated because I had a lot of hospital stays with my son.

[Dave Ramsey]

But his hospital stays, thank goodness. It sounds like you said he's curving up and hitting his milestones. So a lot of those issues are now behind you. You've just got to face the speed and a possible, not necessarily probable autism thing that's in the offing here. We don't know for sure. Be careful getting sucked into that world. Let's first take care of what's right in front of us and that's taking care of him and his speech and he's 1 years old. Okay. So if I'm in your shoes, your. My first job is to create a stable home situation, not get out of debt.

[Bianca]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

My first job is to get an apartment and get a full time job and Create a manageable situation with him and your schedule. And that's a challenge. Those two things right there, that's a big ask. A full career and an apartment. You've obviously got a car. Okay. I don't care about the $18,000. They can't get anything from you, darling. You don't have anything.

[Bianca]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they're not going to get your car. Your car is. Did you say repo your car? Car?

[Bianca]

Yeah, I'm about $1,000 behind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. They will do that. Okay. We've got to get that current. We got to get the car current and get it paid off and get you in an apartment. And that's going to require more income and a stable thing. Do you have family in the area that's trustworthy?

[Bianca]

Not trustworthy. They're helping me. My mom is helping me a bit, but it's more of a catch 22 situation. She's having him while I doordash through the day, but she also at the same who's starting him in daycare. That is quite expensive area. So it's hard for me to manage because she's also working. So she takes overnight while I'm door dashing. And I'm putting him through daycare during the day. And it's about $175 a week on top of a $264 car payment that I pay every week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's not helpful. And so we haven't got any help. You haven't got any help yet. I'm still trying to get you some help. Okay. Are you plugged into a good church there?

[Bianca]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. We're gonna hook you up with some pastors and some church congregations in the area that we know and see if we can get some folks to come around you and walk with you while you're doing this. Because you've got to have some support right now. And. And your support because you obviously don't need to return to the situation you've escaped from that's completely in the rearview mirror. Say I promise. Promise.

[Bianca]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The situation is in your rear view mirror. You're never going back. Say, I promise, Dave.

[Bianca]

I promise, Dave, trust me, does not just need to see that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That boy. And you do not deserve that. That's why you're in this shelter. Okay. And so you are a warrior and you've lost a few battles and you're going to keep fighting. Pretty princess. You're a warrior princess. You're going to do this. I got faith in you. And we're going to put some people around you to help you. I'm also going to get one of our Ramsey coaches that are financial coaches to help you as well. But your deal is don't worry about the debt. We do need to worry about the $1,000 on the car. We got to get that straightened out and I'm going to help you with that. Okay? We're going to get the coaches to help you work that out and we're going to get you with a church and see if maybe they'll catch your car up and help you get into an apartment and bring some people around you to love you well. And so we're gonna put some community around you and we're gonna put a coach in your corner. We're gonna pay for all of it and cost you a thing. Okay. And then because that you've got to get a full time gig going for your long term future. I know it's hard, I know it's hard to see that right now. But you've got to have some money and doordash doesn't cut it and you got to get it and that'll get you out of the shelter and get you into an apartment. Get the car caught up. See if you were in an apartment with food on the table and the lights in the water were PA and the car was current and you had a schedule set up for your son, you would have a real life. Agreed?

[Bianca]

Agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Only then do we worry about the stat. First we take care of you and the boy.

[Bianca]

Yeah. It's like I said, it's been a catch 22 for quite a bit now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're stuck. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place. That's where you are. So you gotta have some help to get on screen. Stuck. And we're going to help you. Okay.

[Bianca]

Thank you so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Anything you want to add?

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I, I, you said she was a warrior princess and I just, I feel the same way. I feel like kudos to you for, for doing everything you can to take care of yourself and take care of your boy. And this is a really hard season. But it's not going to, it's not forever. It's just a season.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how old are you?

[Bianca]

I'm 24.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. 18 years from now. And it's May. You're going to walk him. You're going to be standing there when he walks down, gets his high school diploma and is getting ready to head off to college and you're paying for it and you're going to be smiling. That's the picture you're working towards. Okay.

[Bianca]

It's hopefully.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not hopefully. You're going to do it.

[George Kamel]

You'll do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're going to show you how. Hold on guys. Set her up with a good church. Get a couple of guys church department to hold her hand. Hook her up with one of our coaches down there. They can help with that as well. This is the Ramsey show Foreign you work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest. Invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramseysolutions.com smartvestor to get connected.

[Ken Coleman]

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] smartvestor.

[Dave Ramsey]

She ever found yourself trying to explain this whole Ramsey show thing or the the baby steps to someone who's really struggling with money? But there's a lot to get across in one conversation. Well, we put together something to help you. It's called the Ramsey 101 playlist. Free, easy to share playlist, covers all the basics for somebody who's just brand new with Ramsey. What are the baby steps? How to pay off debt with the debt snowball, how to build an emergency fund and a lot more. There's clips on all this, so click the link at the top of the show. Notes to open the Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube. Text it DM it, send it in a group chat. Just say hey, thought this might help. If you're listening on radio, we've got the playlist featured at the top of our YouTube channel. So think of one person in your life and remember that one share could change everything for them. And by the way, if you send that, don't send it with a condemnation.

[George Kamel]

That's right, you share. This is for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

No shaming. You are broke. You should listen to this. That's not what we're talking about. It's like this helped me. Maybe you would be interested.

[George Kamel]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's all you say. Talk about your experience, not how dumb they are. That never works. Buying or selling a home is a big deal. And between clickbait headlines and Confusing data. It's tough to know what's actually going on in the housing market. And we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. By the way, home prices went up just a little bit last month. Now the median home price in America is 430,000. And there's more homes on the market right now, nearly a million, the highest since 2019. Got a lot of inventory. The average 15 year fixed rate rose to 5.9 last month. It's still not 6. So it's a good time to buy and a good time to sell. If you need more help and you want to learn more about it, you want to just go to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show notes for that and we'll help you out with that as well. Well, Colin is in Phoenix. Hi, Colin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. How you guys doing?

[George Kamel]

Great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

[Ken Coleman]

I could, I mean, I'm doing all right. I'm about to move across the country, so I mean, it could be better. It's always stressful. But I got a quick question for you guys. Should my girlfriend take out student loans for grad school? Because it seems like it would be a simpler transaction than dealing with.

[George Kamel]

No, is the answer to the first question. What does it mean to deal with her parents? Like borrow the money from her parents?

[Ken Coleman]

So that's where it gets dicey. Generally speaking, I'm going to say no, I'm full with you guys. And my parents have always been in a position to help cash flow school for me and that's what happened for my undergrad and they're going to be doing that for me, for my grad school as well. So, I mean, I'm obviously thankful for that. And my girlfriend was told to take out student loans for her undergrad and that's a financial burden now. And this was before she effectively discovered you guys. She'd heard of you guys and I mean, when she grew up, it wasn't as big of a, as big of a thing. And then I came into her life and now we're kind of doing this and I was like, you need to save some money while we're not having to pay student loans. And now that they're, you know, they're coming, she's paying really aggressively, like over two times the amount that is minimum.

[George Kamel]

How much does she have?

[Ken Coleman]

She has, it's just hit 19. She just paid off the smallest.

[George Kamel]

And how much does grad school cost?

[Ken Coleman]

So Grad school is going to cost us less than undergrad. Overall, all.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's not an us. You're not married. It costs her.

[Ken Coleman]

Right? That's true. That's cost her.

[George Kamel]

What will it cost her?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna say it's gonna cost 75.

[Dave Ramsey]

What in the world is she studying?

[Ken Coleman]

So it's interesting. We're both studying in the same field, just different emphasis.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm going into stage automation and she's doing costume design.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need a graduate degree in costume design.

[Ken Coleman]

So.

[George Kamel]

Is it a private school? Where are you guys getting these degrees?

[Ken Coleman]

It's not a private school, but it's not federally funded. It's state funded.

[George Kamel]

All right. Yeah. It's too expensive. So part of the conversation, let's back it up because I gave you a quick note about the student loans, but I want to kind of talk about the things that should inform the decision going forward, because it sounds like. To your point, it sounds like her parents obviously did not plan to pay for undergrad or grad. And so she's got to look at what her options are. And the number one thing that's going to impact the school that she chooses is the price of the school. Right. Because she doesn't have any money. So she's got to choose it. Let's put the design thing aside for a second. Costume design aside. Just for a second. If she chooses a school, she's got to choose something. Something that there's a way and a path forward in which she could pay for it by working, by saving, by even maybe delaying it a year so she can stack up some money to make that happen. Is that fair enough?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Weshall]

And we've.

[Ken Coleman]

We've talked about those options. The difficulty is, regardless, we do have to leave where we are now, because in our city, there's virtually no options in our direct field.

[George Kamel]

That's. That's where I want to. That's where I want to interject, because I think. I think. I'm not trying to be rude. I'm not trying to step on your feet. You have a relationship. I think part of the problem is it is a huge we. And so you go where she goes. She goes where you go, but she might not be able to afford to go where you go. And that's something that I think could be a good idea to decouple from this thing because you can afford to go to that grad school because your parents are paying for. For it. She can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you guys are loading up the truck and heading to Beverly Hills. That is swimming pool. I mean, and movies. You're moving to la. You're moving to la. And she's talking about ucla.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's in North Carolina.

[Dave Ramsey]

North Carolina.

[George Kamel]

Now that makes even less sense for costume design.

[Ken Coleman]

I didn't think it was going to cost that much.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, wait a minute. North Carolina for costume design?

[Ken Coleman]

Design, yeah. Schools in the United States for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, I'm. Let's stop a second. All right. What is her degree in currently?

[Ken Coleman]

Both of our degrees are in theater production with design and tech.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's she doing for a living now?

[Ken Coleman]

She's working at the university we just graduated from and she's on a part time gig because they won't hire her full time and she's, she's basically doing bookkeeping.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so her theater degree got her a part time bookkeeping gig so far.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. That's why we have to leave where we are.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I mean, theater gigs aren't huge in North Carolina.

[Ken Coleman]

Right? Well, true, true.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not exactly a huge market. You're not moving to the theater market. I mean, we're talking la, we're talking sound stages in Atlanta that have blown up and we're talking Nashville and we're talking New York.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Maybe Chicago, but not North Carolina.

[Ken Coleman]

So. But we're not going in for theater per se. We're going in for live entertainment. And the reason, the reason this school is as important to us as we believe it to be is because everyone there, they have created effectively a pipeline to the large organizations that we want to work for, that we've dreamed to work for for our entire lives. And currently we are unable to get those jobs because of where we started.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jade and Sam. Jade and Sam own a cruise talent booking company. They book people and have for years on cruise talent. So she can speak to this better than me, but I, I'm calling bull crap.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, there's. It doesn't exist, this idea that if I go to the school, I 100% have the in and I 100% will be in. Networking exists. I will give you that. Networking exists. Forming relationships exists. But you can do that. There's a lot of that that you can do on your own. Because now you've admittedly said it's not about the education, it's about the network, it's about the pipeline, it's about getting indoors. Right, you said that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Kamel]

And my thing is if you move to a town, one of these towns that Dave said, and you make it a point to get out there, you Go to every live show, you go to every play you, you know, sign up. You just go backstage and start meeting people. You can, in six months create that same network, but you've got to do work. Like, that's you going out every single night. That's you talking to every single person that you meet at these events.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think this is her parents saying this is a bad idea for her.

[George Kamel]

It's a bad idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think I agree with her parents, Colin. No, she shouldn't do this.

[George Kamel]

Education is rarely the right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would not spend $75,000 on a graduate degree in costuming. No, I would not. And I'm in a town where people make a living doing costuming. I've never met someone with a degree in it ever. Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go, so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're gonna start winning with money, you have to get on a board budget. The easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the Every Dollar budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free. So no excuses. Download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play today. By the way, Jade and I love North Carolina.

[George Kamel]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're just not of the opinion that it is a theater hotbed.

[George Kamel]

So it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, just, just, just, just clarifying for all you people that are getting ready to send hate mail into a full Reddit page on. Dave Ramsey hates North Carolina because he doesn't. I actually love North Carolina. My state, Tennessee used to be park of it before 1794. So there you go. But it's part of my soul. I love North Carolina, but it's not a theater hotbed. And neither is Chattanooga, Tennessee, neither is Louisville, Kentucky. So you can just put this on a long list of places that are not a theater hotbed. And so nothing wrong with that. It's just not there. Sorry. And just to be very, very clear, when tackling debt or building wealth, people can often forget about one important step to reaching those goals, and that's insur. If you've got the right coverage, that's playing good defense while you're playing offense. If you got the wrong coverage, they're taking your Money. Don't let them take your money. Make sure you got the right coverage. Take our free. That I mentioned is free coverage checkup. It's a free online. It's free. It's a free online resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan and makes you know exactly for your situation, what you need to do, what you need to get rid of, and what you need to get more. More of.

[George Kamel]

Is it free?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's free. The whole thing's free. Good point. Jade ramseysolutions.com checkup. That's how you get the coverage checkup. Or click the link in the description if you're listening on a podcast or YouTube or something like that. Oliver's in San Diego. Hey, Oliver. How are you?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

So I've been a longtime listener. I even took the FP University class five years ago. But I wanted to get your thoughts.

[Dave Ramsey]

On taking advantage of a.

[Ken Coleman]

And I know you're anti credit card, but there's a card that accepts mortgage payments and daycare payments for bills you have to pay anyway. You pay it straight through your checking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Account and then they give you the.

[Ken Coleman]

The 3,4000 points and then you can use it, cash it out, use it for a trip or even use it for your. Your mortgage mortgage to pay it off faster.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it gives you 3,000 points? Well, depending on what your mortgage payment is. What are the points, too?

[Ken Coleman]

The points you can cash out for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Money or you can cash out for.

[Ken Coleman]

Cash or you can.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what is 3,000 points worth in money? I think it's.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not a lot.

[Ken Coleman]

I think it's the $0.01 per point.

[Dave Ramsey]

$0.01 per point.

[George Kamel]

So how much is your mortgage?

[Dave Ramsey]

$3,000?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, my mortgage is about 35, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

I pay my daycare.

[Ken Coleman]

And they give you three times points on daycare?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. $3,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Kamel]

Or let's say you add a daycare. 7,000 cents.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. So I pay both those and then.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just put it towards my mortgage. Is that. Isn't that $70? Is that right?

[George Kamel]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so $70.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. And so the. Here's the thing. When you play with snakes, you eventually will get bitten. And these are snakes. Credit card companies have one goal, and it's not to give you free money. You know that. That.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is to get you in debt at 18 to 38%. We know that there's $1 trillion worth of people who thought they were going to get points. And now you've converted $3,000 into having a discussion about $30. What do you make a year? Between me and my wife, we're doing good.

[Ken Coleman]

Above average, I think around 358.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're making $350,000 a year, and you called me about $30.

[George Kamel]

Oh, wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, if you should have used your time with a better wisely, I could have helped you with something real. Not $30. Well, I mean, it's going to pay anyway. Don't laugh. It's exactly what you call me. About 30 bucks. You're burning a lot of your brain calories that are very valuable on 30 bucks.

[George Kamel]

Unless there's another reason you're not telling us.

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's. I was, you know, taking advantage of.

[Dave Ramsey]

That card you get. You're not taking advantage of it. It's already used up more of your brain calories that you should have been using to make $10,000 while you're screwing around with 30 bucks. And now you're burning my brain calories. So, yeah, this is. So here. Here's the thing.

[George Kamel]

Focused on the wrong thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

We did study 10,167 millionaires. The number of them that said they became millionaires due to $3,000 is precisely zero. The number of them that became millionaires because of their airline miles, because they manipulated a credit card company and got money out of them and used some system to their advantage that was destroyed, designed to screw them, and they use that to become a millionaire, is precisely zero. So the answer, Oliver, as you knew before, you called because you went through Financial Peace University and I spent an entire hour trashing the whole idea. And you already knew that. So, no, we're not. I don't have any credit cards. I have four pieces of plastic in my wallet, two debit cards, one on my business, one on my personal. I have my driver's license and my handgun carry permit because I live in a America. And that's it. That's all I got. I got nothing else in there. I got no points. I got no points. I got 0 cents.

[George Kamel]

3,000 cents. I can't unhear that and unthink of it that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, here's the thing. Ridiculous. The way they get you with these things and the way they get you with these interest rate loan consolidation crap. Same thing is they start talking about the interest rate and the savings. We start talking about savings. And see, what they did was they didn't say $30.

[George Kamel]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Brilliant market.

[George Kamel]

3,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get 3,000 somethings and it Takes a minute to boil it down to 3,000 something.

[George Kamel]

You got to go back to when you were a kid and you went to the skating rink and you got the tickets.

[Dave Ramsey]

Worse than that. Chuck E. Cheese.

[George Kamel]

Chuck E. Cheese. And there was the wall of prizes, but you had to convert how many tickets and points.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was 80,000 tickets. You're buried in tickets. And you still got a half a penny piece of plastic something from China right out of the Chuck E. Cheese Wall of Fame cabinets. And your child is buried in tickets. They can't even see. They look like cousin it with tickets and they're just covered in them.

[George Kamel]

And you get like, same thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a scam. 3,000 cents. I mean, that's a lot of sense.

[George Kamel]

So, no, there's so many other ways you could get $30.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you convert some of these discussions to hard dollars, they stop you from screwing with it. Yeah, yeah, they do make $350,000 a year. Don't screw with $30 problems. Yeah, you need to solve $10,000 problems, not $30 problems. Yeah, you make a lot of money. You're too smart for that. Don't fall for that crap. You don't. Stupid people don't make 350,000. But you got sucked into having this, this mind game that somehow you were going to get something for nothing. And just go make some money, man, and take care of the money you made. That'll get you there. Wow. Beautiful. Beautiful. So jade, you're not old enough. And you got to be really old in our audience. But you guys can look it up. It's probably on the Internet. When I was a kid, they had a thing called green stamps. You ever heard of that?

[George Kamel]

I have not heard of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you would go to the grocery store and when you're checking out, they had this little printout and it would print out these little green stamps, look like a postage stamp. There's a little sheet of them. And my mom had a little book and you would post them in the book and when you fill up a certain number of pages, then you had 3,000 cents. Right. But we actually saved up after four years of grocery buying and diligently licking these stamps and putting them in these little books. And I think we got a really small 18 inch tabletop charcoal grill.

[George Kamel]

Look at that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That today would cost probably, I don't know, $28. Yeah, $28 or something at the sporting goods store. Right. Sports academy. Right. You get the little tabletop one for camping. It's the cheapest one in there. And so. But this would have been 1970 something. So that would have been a. A dollar and a half or two dollars or whatever. I mean, it was the cheap. I mean, but we worked our little bony fingers off on those stupid green stamps to get this stupid grill. And it was like the lamp turn in Christmas.

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The fringe and the leg lamp with the fringe. Yeah. It was the same thing. It was a prized possession in the Ramsey household that we had this grill that we had licked our way into.

[George Kamel]

That is. That story is gold.

[Dave Ramsey]

People have been falling for this since time began. So quit looking for an easy way. The fastest way to get rich quick is get rich slow. Live on less than you make, put money in your investments, and then you'll have some money. Oh, this is a deep formula right here. But you work it. It'll work. I can tell you. Listen, your home is your most expensive asset. And now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner. Someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a Ramsey trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you, go to ramseysolutions.com agent. That's ramseysolutions.com agent. Our scripture of the day, Luke 16:10. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. Milton Friedman said, only the government can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink, and make the combination worthless.

[George Kamel]

Wow. Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's great. All right. Nick is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Nick. How are you? Good.

[Ken Coleman]

How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

So my question is, can or is it a good idea to have my boss co sign for a house for me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Who. How long have you been listening to this show, Nick?

[Ken Coleman]

Like three months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

What. What are you. What are your thoughts on the matter?

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, I trust him. I just don't know. There's a lot of. There's a lot that goes into it. So, I mean, do you guys want the full details? There's. There's strength attached is what I could say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, what are the strings?

[Ken Coleman]

So he wants. So he has. This is his friend's house. Currently they are moving. So he wants somebody, and he currently rents their garage because he loves Exotic vehicles. And he's got lifts and all kinds of stuff in their garage. So he rents their cars, their. Their space in the garage. So he wants to do that with us. So he wants to pay. When we did the numbers, it'd be about half the mortgage. Mortgage to rent our garage space so he can put his vehicles in there. But we know that we can't get that big of a loan, so he would have to co sign for us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How long you worked there, hon?

[Ken Coleman]

A little over a year, But I've known him for about three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're 25?

[Ken Coleman]

I am 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you've been looking at houses a lot. Y' all really, really want a house bad, don't you?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I. Currently I'm in one now.

[Dave Ramsey]

You own a home?

[Ken Coleman]

Fiance. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You and your fiance own a home?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Together?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. When are you getting married?

[Ken Coleman]

Now? Next November.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so let's. Let's play this out. So you explained what. What the perfect world situation is. Let me just throw out some ideas. What would happen? Let's say he co signs with you. You guys do this deal. He pays half the mortgage. What happens if he decides he doesn't want to pay anymore? What happens if you get fired from your job? He decides he doesn't want to pay anymore. Anymore. What would happen? Because you said that you can't afford it on your own.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I mean, we would have to pretty much sell it.

[George Kamel]

And what happens? Yeah. And is it worth it?

[Ken Coleman]

Like, we could afford a couple of months, but it's. It's way bigger. I mean, it's twice the size of what we live in now.

[George Kamel]

So is that what would. So that's what it is. It's this giant house. Because I'm trying. What. I'm on my side. I'm trying to think what would cause you. You to put yourself in such a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Precarious situation as he's able to get something that there's no other way he could get.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's. We live in. It's not a house we live in like a townhouse, but we do own it. So we're kind of in a complex. So there's a lot of people. We don't have our own yard. We have a dog. We'd love for him to like.

[George Kamel]

You're 23.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're 23. You're just getting started.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Okay, here's the answer to your question, and then I will also tell you why. Okay. Never do a cosign deal under any circumstances ever. Okay. And the reason is, is that you're signing up for a deal that you know and that the bank knows doesn't work unless everything goes perfectly. And honey, 100% of the time, things don't go perfectly. Let me tell you, as soon as you close on the house, the competitor calls you up and offers you $10,000 more a year to go to change jobs. And you can't take the job because you feel loyal to the guy who has cars in your garage. And if you do take the job, he sues you because he thought you were going to stay with him forever. He thought you were going to stay with him. He thought he had bought a stage slave. He didn't think he did co signing. So never do a cosign deal. There's not a single circumstance on the planet that this is a good idea. And yours is particularly bad because there's about 9 million things that can go wrong and only one that can go right. The probability of this being a good idea 10 years from now is very close to zero. You're going to get screwed. You're going to be stressed. You're going to make wrong decisions for the wrong reasons because you painted yourself into a corner and you're going to get paint on your feet. Please don't do this deal. He's trying to be helpful. He's not a bad guy. He's trying to be helpful and you're trying to do a nice thing for your fiance, soon to be wife. And you with good reason, want a nice place. I don't blame you for any of them that. But you're trying to do a good thing a bad way and it's going to bite you in the butt. Does any of that make sense?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. No, it makes perfect sense.

[Jade Weshall]

I.

[Ken Coleman]

We've been contemplating sounded great on paper, but there were so many things that could go wrong so quickly.

[Dave Ramsey]

The likelihood of you still working there 10 years from today on average is zero. Period. For no reason at all other than you get a better job, he goes broke, he gets mad and fires you, whatever. I mean, it just doesn't. The number of people that stay on a job 10 years, we celebrate 10 year Ramseyversaries. People that have been here 10 years and the number of people that are here three years or four years or five years or six years, there's a lot of them. But the number of people here 10 years, not that much. The number of people here 20 years, almost none. This doesn't go well. This doesn't end well.

[George Kamel]

And by the way, you know, when you buy a house that's double the size, it's not just double the mortgage. It's double the problems and the things that you have to take care of.

[Dave Ramsey]

With the property crap. Yes.

[George Kamel]

You know what I'm saying? It's not just the mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, that's real. Chris is in Nashville. Hi, Chris. What's up? Not much.

[Ken Coleman]

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can I help? I. I guess I'm calling for a.

[Ken Coleman]

Reality check or just some wisdom and.

[Dave Ramsey]

When I can stop working.

[Ken Coleman]

And it's not as much stop working. It's just figure out what.

[Dave Ramsey]

What I want to be when I grow up. When your nest egg is big enough. When your nest egg is big enough to run perpetually.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I got some. I got some rental property. I'm closing on a deal, hopefully the end of this month, and I'll have about 8,500amonth passive income coming in.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no such thing as passive inc. Income. You talking about a real estate deal? Well, I'm talking about rental properties. Rental property is not passive. It's.

[Ken Coleman]

I get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, sir. Okay. All right. So you have. You're gonna have $8,000 a month net profit.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

If everybody pays and if it's all full.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So in the real world, you probably got 6,000. Well, because it's never full and everybody. Not everybody always pays.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I got a bunch of rental property. Okay. I mean, I know what works, right? So. Yeah. So you got about 6,000 you can count on there. And what's it take for you to live? Dude, I got no bills, no mortgage. What's it take for you to live? That's what I'm trying to figure out. Run a budget.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I mean, what is the.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, how do you.

[Ken Coleman]

It's also, like, even if I don't quit what I'm doing, like, I just want to take a year off. Am I selfish for that? Is that inside insane?

[Dave Ramsey]

Mathematically, it might be impossible.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you need 16,000amonth to live and you're going to try to do it on 6000 because you want to take a year off, well, get me some cheese with this wine.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

No, sir. No, that's. That my expenses are nothing. I mean, literally.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you single?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Married, two kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so what does it take to operate your house? Can you do that on 6,000? If you can. If you can, then you're okay. If you can't, then you're not. You need to run a budget.

[Ken Coleman]

Got it?

[Dave Ramsey]

You and your wife need to sit down and go, this is the price we're going to pay. We're used to spending 10,000 because we go on all these trips and stuff. This year we're going to take off and we're going to live on 6000 and we're not going to go on the trips or whatever it is. I don't care. But deal with your own reality.

[George Kamel]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pull up your actual numbers and don't count on 100% occupancy and 100% of the tenants paying. That's an illusion and it ain't passive, ever. Passive with a tenant? You got no tenant. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Chris Hogan]

Hey, you guys. I was shocked to learn that 88 of you out there are sharing the Ramsey show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey101 YouTube playlist playlist. A quick start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsey plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So here's what's inside, what the baby steps are and why they actually work. How the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast, and how to build wealth and invest for the future and so much more. So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube playlist. Copy it, text it, send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I thought this might help. Because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One share, one playlist, one step could change everything for that one person in your life. So click the link, share the Ramsey show, and let's help someone out there start winning with money.