More Debt Always Equals More Risk

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "More Debt Always Equals More Risk"

Release Date: July 30, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network (Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney)
Description: The Ramsey Show empowers listeners to build wealth and gain control over their financial lives, regardless of past mistakes. Host Dave Ramsey and his team address listeners' financial challenges through expert advice and proven strategies.

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Introduction

In this episode titled "More Debt Always Equals More Risk," Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney tackle various callers who are grappling with significant debt-related issues. The discussion spans topics from managing elderly family members' debts to balancing household finances amidst personal financial setbacks. Throughout the episode, Ramsey and Deloney provide actionable advice grounded in their "Baby Steps" financial framework.

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Caller 1: Assisting an Elderly Grandmother with Debt and Dementia

Timestamp: 01:05 - 09:16

Caller: Shawna from Cedar Rapids shares her concerns about her 80-year-old grandmother who is burdened with over $40,000 in debt. The grandmother, diagnosed with mild dementia, has been scammed multiple times, severely damaging her credit and preventing her from securing suitable housing.

Discussion Points:

• Financial Management for Dementia Patients:
  Dave Ramsey: "Dementia means she shouldn't be managing her checking account. Someone should have stepped in as a medical power of attorney."

• Medicaid as a Solution:
  Ramsey suggests that if the family cannot care for her, Medicaid can cover the costs of a nursing home that includes memory care.
  Dave Ramsey: "Medicaid pays for a nursing home for anyone in America."

• Emotional Challenges:
  Ramsey empathizes with the emotional toll on the family, acknowledging the grandmother's fears and resistance to relocating to a care facility.

Conclusion:
Ramsey advises focusing on the best interests of the grandmother by either taking care of her or placing her in a Medicaid-assisted nursing home, emphasizing the importance of making tough but necessary decisions to ensure her well-being.

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Caller 2: Balancing Debt Repayment with Growing Family Needs

Timestamp: 10:35 - 16:36

Caller: Isaac from Wyoming is on Baby Step 2 with $55,000 in debt, including a $35,000 truck loan and $20,000 in student loans. With a second child on the way and a household income of approximately $60,000 from his job at a coal mine, Isaac seeks advice on managing debt while preparing for additional family expenses.

Discussion Points:

• Debt Snowball Strategy:
  Ramsey recommends a focused approach to paying off debts quickly through increased overtime work and possibly selling the truck to reduce liabilities.
  Dave Ramsey: "Work like a maniac for nine months and pile up cash to clear your debts."

• Sustainable Workload:
  Emphasis on not maintaining unsustainable work hours indefinitely. Ramsey advises aiming for a "sprint" to eliminate debt within a set timeframe.

• Spousal Partnership:
  The importance of both partners being committed to minimizing spending and contributing to debt repayment.
  Dave Ramsey: "It's going to make your marriage immeasurably stronger."

Conclusion:
Isaac is encouraged to intensify his debt repayment efforts temporarily to achieve financial stability, after which he can enjoy a more balanced lifestyle.

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Caller 3: Managing Inherited Funds for Grandchildren’s Education

Timestamp: 16:42 - 22:13

Caller: Jason from Phoenix inherits $80,000 designated solely for his great-grandchildren. He seeks guidance on the best way to manage these funds for his children and nephew.

Discussion Points:

• Custodial Accounts vs. 529 Plans:
  Ramsey advises opening Uniform Transfers to Minors Act (UTMA) accounts focusing on mutual funds rather than brokerage accounts or 529 plans, which are specifically for education expenses.

• Investment Strategy:
  Invest in growth stock mutual funds and educate the children about financial literacy over time.

• Communication with Family:
  Emphasizes the importance of the grandfather communicating his intentions clearly to avoid misunderstandings and resentment among family members.

Conclusion:
Jason is guided to use custodial mutual fund accounts for the inherited money, ensuring it grows responsibly while educating the beneficiaries about its purpose and benefits.

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Caller 4: Purchasing a Boat Without Financial Strain

Timestamp: 33:51 - 42:18

Caller: Jennifer from Tampa, Florida, and her husband wish to buy a $55,000 boat but are conflicted about the financial impact.

Discussion Points:

• Assessing Financial Readiness:
  Ramsey questions why Jennifer's husband has outstanding debts ($5,000 on a car) if they can afford to pay cash for a boat.

• Asset Depreciation:
  Emphasizes that boats depreciate in value, urging caution against investing in non-appreciating assets.

• Debt Repayment Before Major Purchases:
  Encourages paying off the car loan before making significant purchases like a boat to reduce financial liabilities.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey (00:35:03): "No one ever got rich with low interest rates on a car payment. That's absolute bogus bull crap on a stick."

Conclusion:
Jennifer and her husband are advised to eliminate existing debts before committing to new, depreciative purchases to maintain financial health and avoid unnecessary risk.

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Caller 5: Inheritance Management for Multiple Grandchildren

Timestamp: 44:58 - 58:15

Caller: Anthony from Myrtle Beach inherits a substantial sum and seeks advice on debt repayment vs. investing in real estate.

Discussion Points:

• Debt Elimination Priority:
  Ramsey stresses the importance of paying off all debts to improve quality of life and reduce financial stress before investing.

• Real Estate Investment Strategy:
  Advises purchasing properties with cash to avoid mortgages and ensure positive cash flow, enabling faster wealth accumulation through property investments.

• Long-Term Financial Planning:
  Discusses the snowball effect of reinvesting profits from rental properties to build a robust real estate portfolio without incurring additional debt.

Conclusion:
Anthony is guided to prioritize debt repayment and then reinvest his freed-up cash into real estate, leveraging positive cash flow to steadily grow his investment portfolio.

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Caller 6: Navigating Debt Snowball with Collections and Limited Income

Timestamp: 60:59 - 74:42

Caller: Kelly from Dallas, Texas, seeks guidance on starting the debt snowball method while dealing with debts in collections and a paid-off car.

Discussion Points:

• Debt Snowball Clarifications:
  Ramsey clarifies that debts in collections should not be part of the initial snowball but can be settled once other debts are cleared.

• Car Loan Consideration:
  Encourages focusing on paying off the car loan to free up monthly cash flow for debt repayment.

• Income Optimization:
  Suggests increasing income through part-time jobs or better-paying opportunities to accelerate debt elimination.

Conclusion:
Kelly is advised to prioritize non-collection debts, streamline her car loan repayment, and seek additional income sources to effectively implement the debt snowball strategy.

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Caller 7: Tithing Amidst High Income and Debt

Timestamp: 85:35 - 120:22

Caller: Michael from Louisville, Kentucky, struggles with balancing tithing and managing substantial debts despite a high household income of $350,000.

Discussion Points:

• Effective Debt Management:
  Ramsey critiques Michael’s financial practices, emphasizing the disproportionate debt relative to his income and assets.
  Dave Ramsey: "Your debts are ruining your life."

• Tithing and Financial Peace:
  Explains that while tithing is important, it should not come at the expense of financial stability. Advises focusing on debt elimination first to achieve true financial peace.

• Behavioral Change:
  Encourages disciplined spending and restructuring financial priorities to prevent continued debt accumulation despite high income.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey (85:55): "You make $350,000, and you're broke. So 10% doesn't fix that. I mean, I can tell you what. How God feels about it, and I will."

Conclusion:
Michael is urged to overhaul his financial management by prioritizing debt repayment over tithing until he achieves a debt-free status, thereby restoring financial health and peace.

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Caller 8: Home Renovation vs. Debt Repayment

Timestamp: 95:24 - 114:17

Caller: Hillary from Huntsville, Alabama, seeks advice on whether to sell rental properties to pay off a significant mortgage or invest in costly home renovations.

Discussion Points:

• Debt Repayment vs. Asset Investment:
  Ramsey advises selling rental properties to eliminate the high-interest mortgage and fund renovations with available savings, thereby reducing financial risk.

• Renovation Risks:
  Highlights the pitfalls of large-scale renovations, including potential budget overruns and diminished property value.

• Net Worth Distribution:
  Emphasizes maintaining a balanced net worth with diversified assets rather than over-investing in a single property to mitigate risk.

Conclusion:
Hillary and her husband are recommended to liquidate some rental properties to pay off their mortgage and finance home renovations with existing savings, ensuring a balanced and debt-free financial standing.

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Caller 9: Overcoming Spending Problems in High Net Worth Individuals

Timestamp: 115:35 - 123:47

Caller: Michael from Seattle discusses his struggle with overspending despite having a net worth of $3 million, primarily invested in depreciative assets like cars and mortgages.

Discussion Points:

• Responsible Spending Practices:
  Ramsey emphasizes the importance of managing cash flow effectively to prevent debt accumulation, regardless of one's net worth.

• Asset Depreciation Awareness:
  Warns against investing heavily in assets that lose value over time, advocating for strategic investment in appreciating assets.

• Behavioral Finance:
  Addresses the emotional and psychological aspects of spending, encouraging disciplined financial habits over impulsive purchases.

Conclusion:
Michael is guided to reassess his spending habits, eliminate unnecessary depreciative debts, and adopt a disciplined budgeting approach to maintain and grow his wealth sustainably.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney reinforce the principle that accumulating more debt inherently increases financial risk. They advocate for disciplined debt repayment, strategic asset management, and sustainable financial practices to build and maintain wealth. Key takeaways include:

• Prioritize Debt Elimination: Address high-interest debts first to reduce financial strain and free up cash flow.

• Strategic Investing: Focus on appreciating assets like real estate while avoiding depreciative investments such as boats and unnecessary vehicles.

• Emotional Resilience: Acknowledge and manage the emotional challenges that come with making tough financial decisions, emphasizing long-term benefits over short-term discomfort.

• Collaborative Financial Planning: Encourage open communication and partnership between spouses to ensure aligned financial goals and mutual support in achieving financial peace.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey (06:07): "One is the highest balance, regardless of interest rate."

• Caller (35:03): "No one ever got rich with low interest rates on a car payment. That's absolute bogus bull crap on a stick."

• Dave Ramsey (74:42): "You're not on here to defend yourself... Get two jobs, get back to work."

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For listeners seeking to take control of their financial lives, this episode offers practical advice and real-life solutions to navigate the complexities of debt management and wealth building. By adhering to the principles discussed, individuals can mitigate financial risks and work towards a more secure and prosperous future.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

You say you'll never join the Navy, never climb Mount Fuji on a port.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Visit or break the sound barrier.

[Dave Ramsey]

Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Learn [e-mail] America's Navy forged by the sea.

[Caller]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free. Today, live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, PhD in counseling, host of the big hit on Ramsey Network, the Dr. John DeLoney Show. Number one best selling author. He's my co host. Today. Open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225. Shawna is in Cedar Rapids. Hi, Shawna. How are you?

Good. About yourself?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I have my grandma. She's 80 years old and 40 grand in debt or more. Can't get approved to live anywhere and has dementia. We're working on our own baby steps. What should we do?

Can't get approved to live anywhere.

No. She's been scammed multiple times and it has ruined her credit to where no one will approve her if she's got.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does she have clinically diagnosed dementia or is it just something you as a family toss around?

[Caller]

She has been clinically diagnosed with mild.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dementia, so she shouldn't be able to get a checking account. I mean, somebody should have stepped in as a medical power of attorney at this point. Is that right?

[Caller]

Yes. And right now it's only me and my husband. My mom is not good for her or anybody, so she's kind of out of the picture.

Okay, so. Well, I mean, you really have two options. One is you all take care of her, which you're saying you don't want to or can't do. And the other option is a nursing home on a Medicaid program. Medicaid is welfare. It's designed for people that don't have money or bad credit. And Medicaid pays for a nursing home for anyone in America. So.

Yeah, we're just concerned about that because she doesn't want to be done driving. She doesn't think she can see her son that's located with rim.

Well, she'll be done driving if she goes into that. But she should be done driving if she's got dementia and gets scammed.

Yes, I.

She'll drive somewhere and not know where she is. Honey.

Yeah, that happened already.

You got a silver alert going. I mean, come on.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she.

[Caller]

So I don't really care whether she wants to drive? Yeah, it's no longer an option.

Okay.

And so then you've got to decide are you guys willing to take care of her or able to take care of her? And if you're either not willing or not able, then you know, you're going to find a Medicaid nursing home in the area that's got some memory care elements to it and there's plenty of them and they're not luxury high rises, I can tell you that. But, but you know, at least somebody be taking care of the lady because there's not anything she can't live on her own. Right.

She has till just recently she just sold her house and she's making 40 grand ish in profit and we're trying to get her into an assisted living facility.

Okay.

And it's not going well due to her only bringing home 3,000 a week. I meant a month. Sorry.

Yeah. I mean most of those cost that or more.

Yeah.

So 36,000 a year would be a deal on an assisted living. And so what is your household income, hun?

We bring home about 7,000amonth together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so how is she getting Social Security? Is that where the 3,000 is coming from?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's Social Security and pension.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, Dave, correct me if I'm wrong, but when you file for medic Medicare, like you have to show you don't have any more assets or something, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, but she doesn't. I mean, she got $40,000, but that's not gonna keep her from getting qualified for this because she doesn't have the income to support the memory care. But here's the thing, you keep, I'm. You keep describing someone who doesn't have dementia. She just sold her home, she's been living on her own, she drives. Is she just, is she just contrary? And y' all are blaming dementia.

So right now they have been diagnosed her with mild dementia. So it's not as bad as it's going to get yet, but it is very slowly getting worse and worse.

[Dave Ramsey]

So one of the hallmarks that it's devastating for families is you have somebody that in some shape, form or fashion, in some level of consciousness, understands that their mind is slipping out from underneath them. And that comes with a, an ingrained terror that all of us should understand. But what's hard is when you make decisions that you know are best for her. And she'll say things like, I'm never going to see my kid again. I'm not going to be able to eat. These people are going to hurt me. You don't understand. And so you have to be willing to wade through that fear, which is understandable, right. She's losing the foundation of her identity, who she is. And nobody wants to say, hey, I don't, I can't drive anymore.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

And so it's wading through that and doing the next, right, best thing for her, even if it's not going to be like a top notch place. But this is what we can afford, or this is what Medicare will pay for, or this is what Medicare plus our Social Security. I don't know how, I don't know how all that works, but Medicaid. But this is how we're going to, how we're going to be able to do this. But there's, it's going to come, it's going to feel so painful for you because she's terrified. And so you have to wade through that and then go do the next thing and it's going to feel like you're sending her off to prison. It's going to feel like you're taking everything from her. But you know, we all know the best thing for her is to get around a group of people that are trained to help her in these last stages of her life.

[Caller]

In the early stages here, it doesn't sound like she's incapacitated really. She's able to do a lot of things. Is she hard to get along with and that's why you don't want her there or you feel like it's costing you money or what is your all's reasoning? You're not able to care for her or wanting to care for her?

Well, we're trying. We're still in baby step one and two and we just think our marriage right now, we don't want it ruined with her intruding. She's staying in my kid's playroom right now, which is the very right when you walk in the door. So we just don't want her ruining like our marriage by being there. Does that make sense?

No. I don't know why she's running your marriage. I don't understand.

It's just her presence almost intruding.

Just her mere presence.

I wouldn't say that. It's just we don't feel like we can be ourselves with her there.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I, I, I would rather, here's.

[Caller]

How long have y' all been married?

Yeah, we have been married for two years. Been together for eight, just last Saturday.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would rather y' all say, have the courage to say we don't want to take care of her. Because what you're doing is you're blaming her. I'd rather you say, hey, you know what? We don't want her here. And we don't want to deal with it. We don't. Because the other side of this is this could make your marriage immeasurably stronger. But it's a choice y' all are making to say, hey, we don't want her here. Fine. You can make whatever choices you want. Y' all are grown adults. But I don't want you blaming her and saying, well, if it's. If she's here and she has this illness that's slowly gonna take over her, you know, we can't lay on the couch and do what we want to do. Like, just. Let's just call it what it is. We don't want her here. And that means y' all have to be. Be a part of making the next decisions because you signed up to be her medical power of attorney.

[Caller]

Yeah. So she's gonna be in a Medicaid nursing home. That's her only. Back to where I started. Other than staying with you, that's your option.

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Isaac's in Wyoming. Hey, Isaac, what's up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi. Thank you for having me.

[Caller]

Honored to have you. What's up? How can we help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, I am on stage two. I've got 55 grand in debt, 35 in a truck loan, and 20 in student. My wife's pregnant with our second kid.

[Caller]

Yay. Hey.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. I'm really excited. I work at coal mine. I think I said that. I got unlimited overtime, and I'm trying to figure out how much overtime I should do, trying to get some money stowed away for the next kid, trying to figure out how to balance, like, not outworking myself to death, but getting through this. Getting through this debt, getting onto stage three now.

[Caller]

What's your household income, sir?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Last year I made 100 with overtime.

[Caller]

Okay. But that's not a pace of overtime you can maintain through your life. That's just a short sprint, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. It's been like, hit it for.

[Caller]

What do you make? What do you make if you don't do overtime?

[Dr. John Deloney]

If I don't do overtime every two weeks, it's about 2500 after tax.

[Caller]

So about 60,000. Okay. Yeah, 60. 65,000. So you're picking up 30 grand in overtime, give or take.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, of course. Yeah. And bonuses.

[Caller]

Okay. All right. Well, you got a lot of different things pulling at you. You got babies and you got debt, and, you know, and so, you know, I don't want to have someone build a life that requires them to work 80 hours a week for the rest of their life. That's a bad life. That's not a life you want to build. Okay, so let's build a life that maybe we go through a sprint of a year or 18 months, and we work like a wild man and we pay off all our debts, or maybe we sell the truck, get a cheap truck, and maybe we work like a sprint of less than a year and we're out of debt so that we can live on 65 or 70,000 or a little bit overtime, maybe 80,000, but not 100 and 510 because you're working crazy hours.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most of the time. I see people get burned out when two things are in play. One, there's no light at the end of the tunnel. And that's like Dave said.

[Caller]

You said that to a coal miner.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I see what I did there. There is no lights underground when there's no light at the end of the tunnel and when you don't see a purpose towards the toil.

[Caller]

Now, if you can see an end to it, then you don't burn out. It doesn't feel like a treadmill. It feels like a race.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you're doing it for a.

[Caller]

Reason, if there's a race and I know where the finish line is, you can. You can bust it to the finish line. But if there. If it's like I've Got to do this for the rest of my life. Oh, that. We can't do that. That creates burnout.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, awesome.

[Caller]

So let, you know, determine where the finish line is and how we're going to get there. Okay. We're going to keep the truck and the Finish line is 18 months. We're not going to keep the truck and the finish line is nine months, whatever the number is. And then, you know, I don't know that you need to save up a bunch for a child. Your health insurance is going to cover labor and delivery, isn't it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah, most of it.

[Caller]

So why do you need to save up a bunch for the kid?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I just heard that on the, on your show that like, oh, yeah, you.

[Caller]

Can push pause on this, but you're still working overtime because you still got to pile up 55 grand while the baby's on the way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah. And we're paying the truck down as much as we can until we sell it. That's already guaranteed. It's undervalued. Bought it wrong time was.

[Caller]

Oh, so you're upside down. Okay. All right. Yeah. I mean, so, yeah, I think, I think you work like a maniac for nine months and pile up cash. And when baby comes and comes home and your health insurance pays everything, then all of that cash you have piled up won't be needed for the baby. It'll be piled on the debt and you'll clear your debts or get close.

[Dave Ramsey]

And can I give you an unpopular thing to say to or can I say something unpopular? It also helps when you're married that you know your spouse is in it with you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that might look like she commits while you're literally in the coal mines working extra time, she commits to minimizing spending to an obnoxious degree. And you know, she's got her skin in the game too.

[Caller]

Or she's a, she's a full time home economist, squeezing every nickel, every nickel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or she takes two kids from the neighborhood and is. Has. Does childcare in the house to. Even if it's just a little bit of money. But you're looking for a partnership here. Like we are both in this thing and man, you can. You'll find that you get new wind in your sails when you got that.

[Caller]

Yeah. You. If you can push through and you can see the end to it and you've got a good partnership, then you don't get burnout.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Both you and I've been there.

[Caller]

Yeah, right. I've done that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You work like a maniac forever.

[Caller]

16 hours a day. But you can't. You don't. It's not. It's not sustainable. Right. You have to have a way to get through that. And so in our case, we were growing a business and so we had to get the business, have enough revenue coming in that we could hire people to do some of the work. So I could go home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. But also I remember, Dave, times when I didn't feel like Sheila and I were on the same page and I was working like that and it added weight to that work I was doing. But I knew we were perfectly aligned. This is going to be 24 months or 36 months of working full time, going to grad school full time, doing stuff on the side, working at nighttimes, on the weekends. And I also felt lockstep at home. Man, that made that so much easier.

[Caller]

Absolutely, Absolutely. Jason's in Phoenix. Hi, Jason. What's up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey. Good morning or good afternoon, guys. How are you guys doing?

[Caller]

Better than we deserve. How can we help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So me and my wife, we're currently working through the baby steps and we're on baby step number two right now. We have three children. A five year old, a three year old, and a one month old. And we also have a nephew who's six months who's going to be involved in this too. And so my grandfather, he's not doing very well and he recently had a big falling out with my mom and she's an only child. So because of the falling out, he's decided to pretty much forego everyone in the will and give all of his money to his great grandchildren, which would be my three kids and my nephew. It's a total of about $80,000. And he's adamant that the money is for the great grandkids. He doesn't want anyone to touch it. Excep great grandkids. And he has kind of trusted me to see that through. So my main question is, is we've been kind of researching, like opening up custodial brokerage accounts for these kids.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So my main question is, should we open up like the custodial brokerage account? We've looked into the 529 also, but we just.

[Caller]

You don't need 529. Your custodial broker will be fine. But it's not a brokerage account. You just need to open some mutual funds as a custodial account. Just pick out some good gross stock mutual funds. You're in charge of the account until they're 21. These are called an UTMA UTMA uniform transfer to Minors Act. Minors are not allowed to have contracts in the United States. So they can't open a bank account. They can't open a mutual fund. Parents can open one with the kid's name on it. And it makes it feel like it's the kids. But there's always an adult over 21 that's a custodian.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Caller]

Okay. So you're always going to be the custodian. And when they turn 21, the money is theirs. So yeah, I would just go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor Pro. Sit down with one of the people we recommend in the investment world. We don't sell investments at Ramsey, but we do recommend people that do. And they have the heart of a teacher. They can sit down and I would just pick a simple couple of mutual funds that are good growth stock mutual funds that just put the money in there and then just forget it until they're about 12 or 14. And then I would start teaching them about investments and how they work. And I would start letting them know that the money is there. Do not surprise them with a lottery ticket when they turn 21.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

That creates an idiot.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Exactly. When to bring that up.

[Caller]

You bring it up as soon as they are emotionally able to process the fact that the money's there. And you bring it up well in advance because they're not in control and they can get over the. I just won the lottery. Cause they didn't. It's not that much money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

It's not enough money to change their life. Okay. But it will grow. It'll probably be doubled by the time. Or a little more by the time they get to 21, so. And probably double twice actually. But yeah, but, but yeah, you know, so yeah, you're gonna have a couple hundred thousand bucks or so spread out among four kids. So, uh, it's good. It's a nice thing. Uh, and also have Pop be sure he tells everybody what he has done. He doesn't leave it to you to tell them after he's gone. Cause they're all gonna be pissed at you. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

He puts you in a bad position, man.

[Caller]

Yeah. Don't. If you're gonna. Hey, guys. If you're gonna make somebody mad in your will, have the courage to do it while you're alive. Don't leave it to the people behind to do it. Cause everybody gets pissed off at the wr.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Foreign.

[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Fairwinds is federally Insured by the NCU.

[Caller]

L is in charge. Charleston, South Carolina. Hi Elle, how are you?

Hi, Dave. Hi, Dr. John. I just want to say y' all keep encouraging me and helping me get through maternity leave. So thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure. How can we help?

Yes. So my husband and I were on baby step six. We are both active duty military and we have two kids. We live far away from my family. They live on the other side of the country. And my question is, should we continue to split and, and or pay for my parents plane tickets to come visit us? My parents, they come out probably like seven to ten times a year just to help us with the kids and to connect with us. But we've been splitting their plane tickets and just kind of wanted your. Your perspective. Are they broke that they're not in a great place financially? I don't know their exact finances, but I'm getting just with some of the things that they say. Yeah.

Because it's unusual that grandparents have their kids pay for the ticket to come see the grandkids.

Yes. My husband says the same thing.

Most people would. Most people just buy an airline ticket, come see their kid. You know, I mean, they don't think anything about it. That's, it's not so there must have been some reason that we were doing this is what I was trying to figure out. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying it's unusual.

Yes, it is. I think it could. What? I think it goes back to when I was a little kid with my mom. If I really wanted something, she would say, hey, I'll split it with you. And that's how we would do it. And so I think we've just been continuing kind of doing that.

And so now when she really wants something, you split it with her. I'm so confused.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'll tell you, this applies.

[Dave Ramsey]

I moved away from. From my job. Me and my wife moved away from her parents and my parents, our families. And so I have still to this day, have some guilt. And so I put that on the table early on. I'll fly all out there. They have never come out. Seven to ten times a year, right? Because I know I'm in it for a couple of plane tickets a couple times a year, which is fine. You sound like you're in it for thousands and thousands of dollars, right?

[Caller]

It's expensive.

[Dave Ramsey]

Give me a number.

[Caller]

They fly probably like 300 to $500 every time they come out. They fly southwest, so they fly pretty cheap. The cheapest that they can to keep it kind of affordable. They're not going first class by any means, but yeah, they are spending a lot of money.

Okay, number one, you shouldn't do this if you're doing it out of guilt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Correct? 100%.

[Caller]

Number two, you should not do this if you are being manipulated into it. The only reason you would do this is if it's an act of generosity. But you used to split stuff with your mom when you were a kid because she was trying to have. You have some skin in the game when you're buying something that has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Okay, gotcha.

That was her parenting you on your purchases need to have a cost, but now her purchases need to have a cost. So unless you guys need the child care help, and this is your way of funding your childcare help, is to have them come out more. It's unusual, and I want to know why I'm doing it. If it's just an act of generosity or we've always done it that way, that doesn't work for me. That's not good. We are doing this because mom and dad are broke and we really want them to come out and we have the money and it's an act of generosity. Both you and your husband are in agreement on it, that that would be the only way you keep doing this. And I kind of don't think that's what's going on here. Kind of think you all fell backwards into this, and it's just weird. And your husband's calling it is weird.

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then it turned into two or three times, and now it's ten times a year.

[Caller]

How many times is it really? Is it that many?

It's. So the first year that our first son was born.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Caller]

It was actually ten times out here. It slowed down a lot more. Obviously, we're only halfway through the year. So she's probably been out here, you know, like four or five times. And I think, too, the counter to that is my husband's parents. They live three hours up the road. They're able to come visit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but that's not. That's not how it works.

[Caller]

That's not how this works.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not a. It's not a tit for tat.

[Caller]

It's not a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because your parents are growing.

[Caller]

If they live next door, it doesn't matter. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it's not your job to keep it balanced and equal. Your parents are choosing to live where they live.

[Caller]

Daniel's in laws live in Kansas city. We live 30 minutes from Daniel. He doesn't pay for their airline tickets and doesn't feel any need to, by the way. And so I, you know, it's just unusual now if you guys want to do it. But I kind of think that the way you're describing it, your sentence structures and everything is leaving me with. You are unsettled with this. You're uncomfortable with this, and your husband calling it out makes you double uncomfortable.

Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head.

And if you're uncomfortable, that's what's bothering me. If you called me up and went, I want to do this as an act of generosity, it gives me great joy, and this is awesome. I would go, yeah, you got the money? Go ahead. That's fine. It's not a big deal. But there's something rattling around with you that this doesn't feel right. And your husband just said, oh, the emperor has no clothes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly right. And he's sensing his wife is. Is not a hole on this deal, and he don't want to go along with something that you're feeling uncomfortable with.

[Caller]

Yeah. That you're feeling forced into. There's a little guilt tripping of some kind going on. Yeah. So I think. I think we restructured. Let's have it just a reset. Jump on the phone and go, mom, we're looking at this, and we're working on some stuff in our budget, and so we're not going to be able to fund your airline tickets anymore. Yeah, we love you and we hope you can come. As much as you want to come, you're more than welcome. We're not trying to run you off, but we've got some other stuff we're trying to do for the kids, college funds and some other stuff with this money. And, gosh, I hope it doesn't cause you too much trouble, but if you're ever hungry or anything, let us know. We'll get you some food. But. But we're probably just going to change the. Have a reset on this and just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tell your husband that they're probably going to sell their house and to say, hey, we're moving to Charleston.

[Caller]

That has happened before. So one time we had a team member many, many Years ago, over 20 something years ago that misbehaved. And we. Several of the leaders, we were together and we're like. And every. We went around the room, we're like, okay, I had a bad feeling about that guy. And that guy's been kind of weird. There was something weird about that. There's something weird about that. Eight months ago, I was thinking to myself, that was weird. Something weird about that. And one of the other guys, one of the other leaders spoke up and said, okay, we have a new rule at Ramsey. If everyone feels like something, if anyone feels like something is weird, it's probably because it's weird. So let's just say if, you know, if I get a weird vibe off this guy, I should probably just go, that's weird.

[Dave Ramsey]

I get a weird vibe.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then if.

[Dave Ramsey]

If seven of your colleagues say, no.

[Caller]

They'Re great, then I can walk away from it. But. But usually if you feel like something's weird, it's. Cause it's weird.

[Dave Ramsey]

Something weird. That's right.

[Caller]

Well, and that was the point, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Know, can I celebrate your. Your marriage because your husband had the courage to say, I sent something not well in your soul and I love you enough to put on the table and say, we don't have to keep doing this. Yes, and good.

[Caller]

And he was gentle about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for him.

[Caller]

He's like, you can even call Ramsey and they'll. They'll settle the debate is what our call screener says. Yeah, Right. So we get to throw. Blow the whistle and put on the striped shirt and be the referees. But, yeah, he's a good. I like her husband. Yeah, he's a good dude. Okay. Good stuff. So, yeah, if something doesn't feel right, guys. It's generally because it's not right. That's the point.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's good to have wise counsel to bounce that off of.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. Multitude of counsel. There's safety. But yeah, it's a good decision making tool to trust your instincts. That's God's spirit inside of you troubling your waters, troubling your stomach. You know, and it's not actually you have a physical, physiological reaction to something around the subject of money. There's a reason. Yeah, it's not random. Your body, as you say, your body's talking to you or God's spirit is using your body to talk to you or whatever it is, however you want to get at it. But that's this. I had a feeling. Well, yeah, yeah, there's a reason you did. Yeah, it's because you, you and you know, you're, you're, you're taking in all the data and some of it is just below the surface and you don't even realize you're taking it in. It's like sometimes when you read someone's body language and they go, so, so what's wrong? Nothing. Oh no, something's wrong. Not, not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's what I do in my own life. I did this the other day. When you start feeling like something doesn't feel right, write it down so you can look at it and that has a way of clarifying it. Oh, that's not that big of a deal. Or oh my gosh, I, my body's.

[Caller]

Right when I wrote this down. It really looks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get that out of your body onto a piece of paper where you can examine it.

[Caller]

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Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

What's up?

I love the every dollar app.

Well, thank you. Appreciate the endorsement. Very cool. How can we help today?

I have a question. My husband, us as a family, we would like to buy a boat, but my husband feels guilty because he feels like he's taken away the from our future.

Well, you would be, but you'd also be. You'd also have a boat. So that's the trade off the boat. So, A, can you pay cash?

Yes.

Okay. B, how much is the boat?

55,000.

And what's your household income?

We're about 175,000.

Okay. And what are your two cars worth?

We just owe 5,000 on a car.

No, I said what are they worth?

Oh, I think it's probably worth around 35,000.

One car?

His truck? Yes.

What is the other car?

Other cars business.

Doesn't matter. How much is the value of the car?

The car is probably worth 20,000.

And you own it?

Yes, sir.

Okay. All right. So the reason I'm adding these three things together is, yes, I would still buy the boat. I'm confused as to why you have enough cash to pay 55,000 for a boat and still owe 5,000 on a car. Why would that happen?

I know I say pay it off, but he's like, the interest rate is so low, it doesn't matter.

No one ever got rich with low interest rates on a car payment. That's absolute bogus bull crap on a stick. So write a check and pay off the car today and then buy the boat. That's what I would do, and I wouldn't feel guilty at all. Now, here's the thing. You're paying cash. The rule of thumb is this. A, can you pay cash? And B, all things that you own with motors or wheels added together should not be more than half your annual income. And this does not violate that.

Got it? Okay.

All right. Because you've got too much invested in things that go down in value. Boats go down in value 100%. Okay. Cars go down in value 100%. Sea doos, snowmobiles, lawn tractors, big tractors, little tractors, green tractors and red tractors go down in value.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a children's book by Dave Ramsey.

[Caller]

I'm just saying, just trying to make sure I got all the tractors covered because the number of times I've talked to someone with $15,000 owed on John Deere riding mower makes me want to throw up. Okay. So it's a riding mower. So yeah. You don't borrow money on that and have owe more on your John Deere riding mower than you do on your wife's car. So. But rednecks might do that sometimes. So I'm just saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, that is a good children's book called It Goes down in Value by Dave Ramsey. The red tractor and green tractor.

[Caller]

Hey. Yes, I would do this now. Are both of you want to buy a boat and he just feels guilty.

Well, he really wants to buy a boat and I really want him to be happy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So.

[Caller]

Yes.

We both don't make you happy. Boats make you sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Friends with boats make you really happy.

[Caller]

Yeah, I know he loves fishing and that's where his heart is. So.

Yeah.

I do have another question if you don't mind.

Okay.

We have money sitting in the money market right now and as I don't know if that's our best, best way to invest our money. I hear a brokerage account.

No.

Should we transfer that over?

No, we don't do. Brokerage accounts are often used for people buying and selling stocks and we don't want to get into that business. But I would buy some mutual funds instead of have money sit in a. Sitting in a, you know, savings account, you're going to make a lot more money. So my extra money above emergency funds and above money I've got set aside to purchase something within the near term like a boat. The extra money I have would go into good growth stock mutual funds. So like the last two years I made 23%, 25%. The average though is only about 11%, but it's a whole lot more than 4%.

Yes.

So yeah, get with a Ramsey smart. Go to ramseysolutions.com and get with one of our smartvestor pros and don't miss out on the stock market run ups because that way you're getting the advantage of all the stuff going on in the economy that's positive. And the media is so hell bent on not printing anything positive that people forgot to look up and go, oh, the Dow set another record. Oh, the Dow set another record. Oh, the S and P set another record. Oh, the stock market's at an all time high right now at this moment. So yeah, and it's been doing that for a while. So yeah, you don't need to, you know, $200,000 sitting in there, 3% and calling that investing. It's not, it's saving. And you don't want to save more than an emergency fund or more than near term purchases like Christmases and boats.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'll tell you, I got a friend named Dave with an awesome boat and a couple of sea doos and I'm a happy guy.

[Caller]

You don't have a one, you don't have a boat. Yeah, they break. That's just everything that the more stuff you own, the more repairmen you have to know. And boats are. Yeah, boats are expensive.

[Dave Ramsey]

I fish a lot and I've got a pedal kayak, so I feel like I can get my workout in my fishing in at the same time, you.

[Caller]

Know, you can go down to the Ace Hardware and buy a little stainless steel screw that's an inch long for penny and a half, two pennies. But if you buy it and it says on it for boats, it's $4.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is that?

[Caller]

And if it says it's for an airplane, it's $62. So it's the same stinking screw, by the way. So if it says marine on it or aircraft on it, the price changes. So. But it's still a little stainless steel Phillips head screw. That's still what it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm sure if you use that screw and somebody repairs your boat, you violate the whole warranty the whole thing goes to.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, it'll probably sink. Boat will probably sink. That's probably. Yeah, not so. But anyway, yeah, you're going to spend money on everything that you own. So the more stuff you own, houses, boats, whatever, the more repairmen you have to know. So these things come with a cost. They take up your mind space to maintain them and they take up your. And you're. Yeah, yeah. And they take up your wallet space to maintain them. So there's nothing wrong with that. Just make sure you can afford all of that, not just the purchase, because the purchase is just the beginning.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Caller]

And you certainly can't justify it based on the per pound55,000 divided into the number of pounds of fish you catch in a year would not be a good purchase price on the fish.

[Dave Ramsey]

I tried to do that once with no, it's fishing poles and all the.

[Caller]

Gear stating, yeah, I didn't do it with hunting gear too. You can't do it. You can't kill enough. Well, or enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm going to disagree with you on that. The spreadsheet I made for my wife clearly shows that in 2035, I'll have netted out.

[Caller]

You will have broken even on hunting gear after 42 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

42 years.

[Caller]

And by then, of course, it won't even work. So you have to have another one. That's the way it works. So, yeah, good rule of thumb then let's put that back out there. If it's got wheels or a motor, it goes down in value. Add all that together and don't have more than half your annual income invested in things that go down in value. It's very difficult to prosper doing that. And don't use the word invest in front of something that goes down in value. I invested in a boat. No, that makes you look stupid and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stop making stupid financial decisions based on quote, I have a good interest rate. I'm so sick of that. It just means I'm paying the bank less of my money every month to make them wealthier. That's just dumb. Especially when you have $55,000 in an account right there.

[Caller]

Yeah, you pay cash for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just right.

[Caller]

Pay off the car. Pay off the car by the nightfall.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not big on, on husbands and wives making deals, but that's a good deal. Tell them, go buy the boat, but you got to pay the car off today. That'd be a good move. It probably would be a terrible move, but I would do that in my house.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm not big on the making deals like that. Because that'll come back to haunt you.

[Dave Ramsey]

It will, it will.

[Caller]

There'll be another one come around. There'll be something else going around. Yeah, but you remember that time I did that deal with you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Now it's your turn to make a deal.

[Caller]

Now this is the smart thing for us to do is to buy a boat. We can afford it. The smart thing for us to do is to pay off the car and let's get going. And that's smart. It's not smart to keep a car financed. There is no scenario. None. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely Devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality number one best selling author, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show on Ramsey Networks is my co host. Today Rachel's with us in Salt Lake City. Hi Rachel. How are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good.

[Caller]

How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I'm wondering how we can apply the baby steps and get my husband through college.

What's he taking?

So he's going into software engineering.

Okay. And why would he be in college for that? Last place I would go to learn software engineering.

Really?

Yeah, really. I got a whole bunch of them, like 300 of them that work here. I have 300 of them that work here. They went to code school.

Okay.

They didn't go get a four year degree. The number of them that have four year information systems degrees, almost zero. Now a few people that do cyber security stuff at a real high level go get a four year degree. But to be a software engineer, you don't need a four year degree. Matter of fact, it's a lot of it. What you take is a waste. So why is he doing that?

The best thing I've heard in a long time.

What?

[Dave Ramsey]

She said she's crying.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's good. Why are you crying? Huh?

[Caller]

Oh, I'm just like super Scared out of my mind.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you scared about?

[Caller]

My husband is trying very hard to support our family. We have three kids and I have no education to warrant more than minimum. Minimum wage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Disagree with you wholeheartedly on that assessment.

[Caller]

Education does not give you anything to warrant anything. All it does is give you tools to do a job. But this idea that you've got, the idea that a degree is a ticket into a club that you're not worthy to belong to called success, and that's not true. There's very little correlation to that. That's the old thing from the 50s and 60s where they sold everybody to go into college loan debt because if you don't get a degree, you're never going to be anything. And not true. So what is he doing now?

He's attending university. That's it.

So he's in school full time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

And doesn't work?

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are y' all eating?

[Caller]

We have access to a 529 account that has $30,000 in it for us to use towards education.

Yeah. And that's how he's paying for his tuition. How are you buying food?

A food stamps?

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not scared about.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Geez, man. You're scared because your husband's not working for.

[Caller]

Why he quit his job. Yeah. What was he doing before he quit?

He was working at a customer service representative.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let me just. I'm gonna. I'm gonna be as bold and as I can. I worked a full time job as a dean of students. I also was an adjunct professor at two different universities. And I ran around with police officers. Police officers in the middle of the night. I was a full time doctoral student. Why? Because I had a family to provide for. And I had dreams of things being different in the future. And that meant I couldn't just cash out on my responsibility to take care of my family. He can't either.

[Caller]

You don't get to put your kids, the three kids on food stamps so you can go get a degree. Wrong answer. No.

[Dave Ramsey]

He needs to go to work and he needs to stay up all night doing. Doing his assignments at his coding school that have. You have 30,000 bucks that will cover the cost.

[Caller]

You can go. He can go to code school while he works a full time job or.

[Dave Ramsey]

2 full time jobs or 3. You are right to be terrified because your husband's cashed out on your family right now. You and the three little kids. And I would tell him that if he was sitting right in front of me.

[Caller]

Okay.

Extremely irresponsible.

Tell him that when play this clip.

[Dave Ramsey]

Back to him, have him call us.

[Caller]

Dude, you're irresponsible. There you go. I just said it for him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's how it has to start, honey. You have to. You have to sit down and say, I'm scared to death.

[Caller]

It's not. But listen, it's not a dream he's living. It's a nightmare. Okay? Your primary focus on this planet is not to self actualize and feel good. And I want to live my dream. I want to live my passion. So cry me a wambulance. Wah. Seriously, you go get a job and you feed your freaking kids first before we talk about your dreams. And then you work 16 hours a day and make sure everybody's taken care of. And then in the middle of the night, I wrote the book financial peace. From 10pm to 2am is when that book was written.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's when I wrote my dissertation. At 10pm till 2am till your face falls asleep on the keyboard.

[Caller]

You get up the morning and little babies upstairs asleep and a wife upstairs asleep. And I would get three or four hours of sleep and I would get up the next morning and go to oh, work. While I was building my dream of financial peace. So no, this is, this is a bad plan, darling. It's a bad plan. There's so much wrong with your plan that it's unbelievable.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think the problem is it's not her plan.

[Caller]

I know. I said I'm his plan. I'm sorry. His plan. So. Okay, look, look, number one, let's just start with the fact you don't need a four year degree to be a software engineer. Right there. Okay, that, that's just shortcut. Hey, that gets. It's a shortened the. The on ramp and it's got a.

[Dave Ramsey]

529 with 30 grand. Grand in it. You paid for it. There you go.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. Bethel. Is that the people?

[Dave Ramsey]

Bethel Tech's got programs.

[Caller]

Bethel Tech has programs for the. I don't know if they're still an advertiser. They advertise with us for a while, but they're good people. I grew up with them. Yeah, they do a good job teaching coding. We've sent people from Ramsey there to be taught coding. And so you can become a software engineer. You start out dev1. You work, keep doing, Keep working your search and you get to dev 2, dev 3. Dev threes will make a couple hundred grand right now. Okay, maybe a little more, but. And if you want to move all the way into cybersecurity, you probably get up to a half million. But you got. That's. That's a different level. But you can go out and get a software degree. That's much more than better than, I mean, software code. Go to code school and write enough code to make a whole lot more than you would as a customer service rep.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you don't cash out on your family to do it. To do it. You do that. And that's just part of being a cow.

[Caller]

I just went in my dream. You want to smack your dream, you turn it into a nightmare for everybody else. Oh, God.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then your crying wife has to call us and say, help, please.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, that's how you tell him. You play this back. It won't be pleasant for him. It's okay. We're in the business of telling people the truth because we love them and we want you to win. We want him to succeed. We want you to succeed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's lean on this, too. Just because you don't have a degree.

[Caller]

Doesn'T mean you don't have to make minimum wage.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's absolute bullcrap to make minimum wage. It's not true.

[Caller]

Bull crap.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it may be that you got to get a minimum wage job to get money in the door right this second, but you're looking all the time after that job. And you're going to find yourself.

[Caller]

Listen, minimum wage is seven and a quarter. Target, if you just show up and breathe and bathe, will pay you $20. Okay? That's how. That's the qualifications to work at Target. I don't think that's bathe and breathe. That's it. You make 20 bucks an hour and minimum wage is seven and a quarter. So that. No, you're not minimum wage. You know what makes a summer party great? Good friends, cold drinks and great food. But you know what can bring the party down? Spending way too much money to make it all happen. And that's why I get my summertime grocery hauls at Aldi.

[Dave Ramsey]

They've got USDA choice meats, fresh organic.

[Caller]

Produce, and all the stuff you need.

[Dave Ramsey]

For an epic or low key backyard.

[Caller]

Barbecue without breaking the bank. There's no better feeling than good eats at low prices. So stop paying more and shop at Aldi where they have the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you@aldi us that's a L D I savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market. Paul is in Los Angeles. Hey, Paul, how are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. I'm a big fan of yours.

[Caller]

Well, thank you. How can we help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I'm going to be inheriting about $685,000, and I have a debt of 162,000 for my mortgage at 2.9% fixed. And I also have a $23,000 mortgage. It's horrible. It's 8.09%. And I owe 13,000 on my car at 2.9% fixed. And I also need to put maybe up to about 100 grand in my home on repairs, not, you know, gingerbread stuff, things that it really needs. So my question is, do I pay off all those debts or some of them? Well, my goal is with the money, I want to buy real estate, become a landlord again. So my question is, do I pay off all those debts before I buy property and then use the property to pay off the debts, or do I pay off all the debts or some of them and then go and buy a property, which means I would buy a lesser value property if I pay off all the debts.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, I mean, you started the conversation. You're a big fan. So that means you've listened to the show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Caller]

And 100% of the time, you know I'm going to move away from debt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right, Right.

[Caller]

And the reason I do that is that I have learned that several wonderful things happen when I am out of debt. One is the quality of my life goes way up. The peace in my life goes way up. The quality of my relationships are increased because the stress is down everywhere in my life. Very few people get to tell you what to do when you don't have a mortgage. It just changes everything to you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I paid off 50,000 of credit card debt.

[Caller]

You're making progress. And the reason you did that is the freedom that goes with it. And then, of course, the mathematical side of the equation is that when you don't have any debt, you have money, because all the money you're paying a stupid bank now is yours. And so I have used that money once I was debt free to build up an account and buy a piece of real estate with it and then build up an account and buy a piece of real estate with it. And I've got an LOI right now out on a big commercial property that I'm going to develop if it goes all through. And so I got it under contract, tied up while we're doing the due diligence on the. On the property right now. But it'll all be cash and we'll just. And then When I have another piece of real estate, that's that I paid cash for, that's making money. I make that much more money and then make much more money and it snowballs in the positive direction. So all of that to say the math and the peace and the spiritual aspects and the relational aspects all lead me to tell everyone to live this wonderful life that I've had the privilege of choosing to live, which is not having any payments owed to a single person, owe no man nothing but a debt of love. And so that's how I live. And it's a great life. So I highly recommend it to everybody. So what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? Well, I'd ride, check, pay off everything, interest, you know, the interest rate on my mortgage is zero. I don't have one. So I'll be. I beat your mortgage. So the. Yeah, pay it all off and then pay cash for with the money that's left. A nice little rental property somewhere to get started and. Or save up some more money and add to it so you can buy a little better rental property. I don't care. I'm with you. I like real estate, but I pay cash for it. And I've grown my real estate portfolio this time much slower and it's a little bit hard to get. You know, I've done detailed in depth research and 100% of the foreclosures occur on a house with a mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

So is there any, Dave, is there any formula that exists that says once you pay off one house and you save up and pay the second one with cash, how the diminishing time it takes to buy the third, the fourth. Is there any, is there any formula for that?

[Caller]

It would just be a spreadsheet. You're just running those cash flows out because it would depend on the properties.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I guess how expensive a place you're buying.

[Caller]

Yeah. And what the returns are, how well you rent it, how good a job you do manage it and all that stuff. But basically, I mean, once you, if you're buying houses and you're going to start that way. Okay, you know, if once you've got about five houses, think about the cash flow on five properties with no mortgages. You can buy about a house a year out of that, you know, after that. So you'll make enough on those if you just don't consume the rent money. The rent money all goes into kitty to buy the next one. Right. And when you got six, you can do it even faster. When you got seven, you can do it even if you got 10 of them, you can do it real fast.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so if you'll be patient, the first decade you get into this, the decades two and three and four can. They'll snowball on you in a positive.

[Caller]

In a positive snowball. Yeah. It gets bigger every time the snowball rolls over. Every time I got more properties, I've got more cash coming in every month, and I can buy another one faster and another one faster and another one faster. Every time it rolls over, picks up more snow. That's what we're talking about. And so. But, you know, having the patience when you want to be doing real estate and everybody on Tic Tac is telling you you can get rich financing it up to your eyeballs. And, you know, some goober on Instagram has rented a jet and says that that's my jet. And I did. It's not even his right. He just pointed at it and rented it. Rented a Bentley for the day and doesn't even own one. And just, you know, to take pictures, to do a photo shoot, to say, I sell real estate courses and you buy that crap, then you're going to go broke. I mean, I did. And everybody that does that stuff goes broke. And so the only guy making money on all that's the guy with the rented Bentley. He's selling you a $3,000 course for the weekend to buy real estate on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing down on the bank gets rich on you.

[Caller]

Yeah, exactly. And you just. 100% of the time, more debt equals more risk. Less debt equals less risk and increased cash flow. So you want a sustainable quality of life. Wonderful, peaceful. I mean, I got. We have horrible things that we go through with some of our rental properties from time to time, but none of them are associated with paying a payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Caller]

It's all just the stuff you deal with when you're dealing with people doing stupid human tricks. But it's just part of the process. Olivia is in Orlando. Hi, Olivia. How are you?

How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

All right, so I'm not sure where to start exactly. I have. I'm trying. I'm on the rice and beans diet now, like you guys suggest and doing. Working on the right stuff. I literally just started this last week, so I'm new to budgeting and everything. I've gotten all my debt and everything. I want to do the snowball, the debt snowball. But I have a couple questions about where I should start.

Okay.

So I know that you guys. So the debt snowball is to start with the highest balance, regardless of interest rate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lowest balance.

[Caller]

Lowest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lowest balance.

[Caller]

I mean those balance of interest rate. Sorry. And I have a couple things that are in collections.

So are you paying on them?

No. I don't even know how.

They're just sitting. They're just. No, they're just sitting there. You're not paying on them?

Yes.

Don't put those in your debt, snowball.

Okay?

Wait till you get the debts, the stuff you're paying on paid off. Then you're gonna have a lot more money because you don't need payments at that. And you can call them up and offer them a lump sum settlement.

Okay.

And get it in writing.

Okay.

But don't set those up on payments and don't pay on them at all until you get this other stuff cleaned up. Next question. Right quick.

What do I do about my car?

How much do you owe?

About $6,783.

What do you make?

Let's see. Monthly I make, I take home about 2200. It depends on the pay week because my hours differ.

How old are you? 23.

26.

26. Okay. What are you doing?

Yep.

What do you do for a living?

A medical assistant.

Okay. You need to look for a job. Yeah. You're starving today. Yeah, you're starving today and you need to look for an extra job in the meantime. And your car is fine. We just need to get paid off. But you're. One of the reasons that your budget is tight is you don't make any money, kiddo. You're starving. And so we're going to increase your income with short term part time jobs right now. And then you start looking for a new job, you're worth more than that. And you hang on, we're going to help you. I'm going to put you into every dollar. And Kelly, I want to sign her up for the webinar too so that she can be with one of the Ramsey personalities and see how to do the budget. I want to teach her how. Cuz she's ready, she's willing. And let's help her. Let's help her do that. Put her in every dollar as our gift and then make sure she's in that webinar this week. If you're buying or selling a home with all the clickbait ads that are going on and all the garbage on the social media, all you get is drama. Let me tell you, when you're looking at an unstable, weird situation, facts are your friends. So when you're dealing with real estate right now, you need facts, not opinions, not your broke brother in law flipping out because he thinks he can't buy anything and all that stuff. Instead, you need to know what's actually going on. Okay, and we've got the data for you. You can go to ramseysolutions.com market and you'll be able to keep updated on what is actually happening in the market. For instance, as of this moment there's 1,082,520 homes on the market in America. That is the highest inventory since 2019. Demand however is higher than the inventory and so house prices have not gone down, period. They have not gone down, they've gone up. The median home price this month is up again and it's $441,000 right now in America. And it was less than that last month and it was less than that the month before and it was less than that the month before. So that's what's really going on. Interest rates are hovering. Just a 15 year fixed is 5.95, just below 6%. And that's not a bad interest rate unless you compare it to 2. But if you compare it to 12 it's half. So it's not a bad interest rate. And plenty of times the real estate market has boomed at 9, 10, 11, 12% and get above 12 it starts to slow down. But the interest rates have, you know, market has moved at plenty of times with higher interest rates than this. And so it's not a bad thing. And by the way, when it comes to real estate, you date the rate and you marry the house. So you get the right house at the right time at the right price and if rates go down you refinance and or you just pay off the mortgage and then you got a zero percent. So there you go. Ramsey solutions.com market you can keep up with all this. Anthony is in Myrtle Beach. Hi Anthony, how are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I am great and I think the facts is my friend and actualities is a very good lead in for this call and so I appreciate that because that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for facts and actualities, not dreams. I'm looking for some goal help.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Here'S my situation. I guess I'm on step seven. I told you screener that we don't have kids so I guess I got a lowered step there. But so that said debt free, I've got about 250,000 in cash, 300. I would say 450 between my wife and I and our 401ks now that our house is done. We're looking to find an investment help and we have been looking at your suggested investment advisors. The problem is, is that I'm getting a lot of feedback that I don't know, I'm not an investor. And what's happening is I'm getting feedback like oh, we'll make you a multimillionaire. Then I get guys that are like, well, if you can't put away $30,000 a year, you might as well eat Catherine. So I don't know what the real number here is.

[Caller]

No, no, wait a minute. Ramsey trust that smartvestor pros did not say that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, to be fair, they didn't. What I'm trying to say though is there's a lot of range there because what they're asking me is what are your goals? And I'm like, I'm 53, my wife is 60. I don't know what my goals are. That's what I need help with.

[Caller]

Well, it's congratulations, you've done very well. What is your home worth.

[Dr. John Deloney]

For I would say right now somewhere between 4 and 4. 35.

[Caller]

Okay, okay. All right. And what's your household income?

[Dr. John Deloney]

With my wife and I probably in the area of 200.

[Caller]

Okay, good for you. Well done. All right, well we, you know, what I would suggest doing at that stage is to max out all the, keep the government's hands off your money programs. 401ks, Roth IRAs, do everything Roth that you can do. And because that's all going to grow tax free and you're going to discover when you get to be my age at 64 that you're not staring down the barrel of a 72 and a half year old. Mandatory withdrawals, RMDs required minimum withdrawals. Okay. And so if you, if you're in Roths, you don't have that. If you're in a regular traditionals, you do. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna move everything towards Roth. I'm gonna spend some money to do that. I'm gon stuff all in Roth 401ks, Roth IRAs, I'm a Max out everything, keep the government's hands off of it now. But as far as the amount of money I'm aiming at as a goal, I never set a certain amount. I just said I want to build wealth and so that I can do three things. In my case, one is a good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. You don't have kids, but you're going to an inheritance to Someone to be a blessing. Number two is I want to be outrageously generous. And I've noticed that out to be outrageously generous, you have to have outrageous amounts of money. And so let's do that. And then three is I want Sharon and I to be able to do whatever we want to do. And if she wants a car, I can just go get a car. If she wants to go to freaking Croatia, which we just did. It's a wonderful. We loved it and she really loved it, and we did it and so didn't think anything about it. I want you to be able to do some stuff like that right when you're my age, that's 10 years from now for you. So you want to be able to enjoy the money, to be generous with the money, and to leave a legacy with the money. And that's what money. That's the only thing you can do with the money. There's only three things you can do with it is give it, live it, and invest it. And so I'm going to invest with that in mind. But, yeah, you should have making 200 a year, maxing out everything for the next 10 or 15 years, plus the. You know, you're already a millionaire, roughly, or probably are a millionaire, actually, with all the numbers you gave me. You are. Yeah, you are good. And so you should have your net worth approach $10 million. That's. That's where it should go. But why? And the only reason why is so that I can do good with the money for me, mine and others. You know, money's not good for anything, just piling it up. But it's good, it's really good when you can do good with it. And that includes doing something nice for your wife who put up with you all these years, and that kind of stuff.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Okay, so it makes sense. Okay, so I'm looking at this too much from a. When I'm asked that question, what are my goals? I'm looking too much at it.

[Caller]

My goal is to build a big old, big old pile of wealth with steady investing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That sounds good. I didn't think of it that way. I automatically went right to the numbers.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's a good. That's a good thing to do. There's nothing wrong with that. And then, you know, but just run. And then run the numbers out and go, okay, if I. If I fully fund my Roth, my 401ks, and I fully fund and I'm making 200k, you're going to max out everything, by the way, you'll be able to max out your 401ks, you'll max out your Ross, all that. You know, if I fully fund all of that and I do another whatever, then here's where we'll be and we're going to consume the rest of it. We're going to enjoy it. Yeah. And so. And run those numbers out and you're going to see a $10 million number. That's what you're going to see when you run that number out. I'm pretty sure I didn't run it on a calculator, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's, here's what I love about that, Dave. You've been teaching that for three decades now. You and I both are our buddy James Clear. I love the way he framed it, which is reverse engineer an identity, not a deadline. And so we both know people who get obsessed with I've got to have a million dollars. Well, you sacrifice joy, family, giving. You become a monster in pursuit of this thing. If your identity is I'm a guy who builds wealth, who enjoys my life and who gives a ton of it away, you will end up far surpassing this white knuckle goal thing you are obsessed with.

[Caller]

That's why it's always so humorous to me when someone says, well, you know, you can get a million dollars, but that's not enough. And I'm like, enough for what?

[Dave Ramsey]

For what? For what? That's right.

[Caller]

It's not as much as it used to be.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Caller]

I mean, when everybody starts celebrating. Millionaires. The first time Monopoly was popular, it was the 1920s, the go go roaring 20s before the crash in the Great Depression. Millionaires then, that'd be like having 12, 14 million now or maybe a little more. And so it was a lot of money then.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Caller]

But it's still a lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

But now if you have.

[Caller]

Still more than most folk got.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you have paid for a house.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Covered.

[Caller]

Still more than most folk got.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got money to eat. Covered. Now it's just about who are we going to be?

[Caller]

Yeah. Who. Who do we want to be? And really, that's what you're aiming at all along. That's, that's the whole first thing, though, is sustainability. Yeah. That's who we is. The Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by why Refi feeling stuck with the defaulted private student loan payments. Why Refi can reduce your payments and help you regain control of your money. Yeah. Take the first step towards getting unstuck. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R, E, F, Y dot com. Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Dave Ramsey]

Today's question comes from Matthew in Ohio. Matthew writes, my wife and I are in our 20s and we're on baby step. 2. My in laws make good money but are in a lot of debt. Whenever my wife goes shopping with them, she always comes home with something she has hinted to me about wanting that they purchased for her. Am I wrong to feel as if my in laws are enabling her to continue bad habits by purchasing what she wants without practicing patience herself? She knows they are in debt and what was purchased was mo most likely put on a credit card.

[Caller]

H.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave, I'm torn on this one because here's what I'm hearing, hearing two things. One, I'm hearing a husband that wishes he could buy his wife stuff and he can't and so he wants to shut the whole thing down. And also hear a husband who wants to be the parents of her parents and dictate how they do what they do and when they do it for their child.

[Caller]

And he's also wanting to parent his wife.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right. Also be the father slash mother.

[Caller]

Talking about her like she's just like she's his 17 year old daughter and she's developing bad habits hanging out with her mother there. Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't like that. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I mean if Matthew, if you and your wife sit, get together and say, hey, we don't want to, we don't want to support our parents bad money habits and so we're just going to stop taking stuff. We're not gonna, we're gonna stop letting them buy things for us. You can do that.

[Caller]

Let's reframe the position that your wife is in. Okay. Your wife is not your child.

[Dave Ramsey]

Correct.

[Caller]

And the two of you as two freaking grownups should sit down and talk about this. Honey, it bothers me. Your mom and dad shouldn't be putting crap on a credit card that they can't afford that are buying us stuff we can't afford.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Caller]

It's bothersome to me. Does that not bother you as a grown woman? You should be able to look at your mom and go, no, I can't afford this. You can't afford this. We shouldn't be doing this. You should. Honey, we need to talk this through. You need to be on that page. He needs to get with his wife and raise her up and involve her in a noble discussion rather than a tactical I'm going to tell you what to do discussion.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right. And the. The. The second thing here is, is what gets me most frustrated with Matthew and with her. Matthew, you're really frustrated that your wife wants something, and if she can't get you to get it for her because y' all can't afford it, she's going to go manipulate her parents into buying it for her. What you're seem to be upset here really, is your wife's attitude. And so sit down and have that conversation.

[Caller]

That's what exactly said. Yeah, yeah. And I would be too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Caller]

I would be too. It's like we are on a plan because we are trying to get out of this and your mom and dad are screwed up and we don't need to add to their debt to circumvent the fact that we're working on this and be making purchases that frankly, this household doesn't even be making right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Caller]

And so, you know, no, there's so much wrong with this whole situation, but it's not framed in. You've got. Got the high ground and the parents and your wife are all need to be brought into line. That's not it at all. It's that you and your wife need to be. And go. Go visit a place of nobility where the two of you, as two adults, decide what is best for your family. And I do not think that your wife is building bad habits here other than the bad habit of running to mommy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I was gonna say I. I would be willing to bet money that this is not the only place when she doesn't get what she wants from. Go and figure out a way to get it somewhere else.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, Matt, it's being honest about what is beneath the money question here.

[Caller]

Brock is in Knoxville. Hey, Brock. How are you? Good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How about you?

[Caller]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I got a weird question that's kind of specific to me. I'm 23. I'm a huge fan of yours. I've known about you for a long time. I saw you on the Sean Ryan show. That's something I watch all the time. And I just want to say I'm a huge fan of how you are unashamed about letting people know that God has done great things for you. That's something that I really admire and I look up to and hope that I can be that way someday. But the specific question I have would be, I guess I'm kind of at a clean slate in life right now. I'm 23. I'm about to go back to school. I'm going to trade school for it and I've been in debt for like my whole adult life since I turned 18. I moved out, my parents got divorced, I moved out and I'm just now dug myself out of that hole for the most part through some blessings with family members and things like that. And I just want to know, you know, someday when I get out of this, this year long training and I'm making some type of decent money, I plan to have a part time job while I'm in school. What can I do to prosper? Because up until this point it's been hell. I've tried to take care of myself, me and my fiance just struggling by on a full time income the best we can but it's just like wages aren't proportionate to the expenses of everyday living anymore. So I guess that's my question.

[Caller]

That's not true. That's not true. Wages are definitely proportionate to the expenses of everyday living. Your wages maybe aren't exactly, but wages in general are. Yeah, lots of people prospering.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We had rented for a long time.

[Caller]

And you're 23, you haven't done anything for a long time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're talking to old guys, man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah, I feel old. I do, I feel old because it's.

[Caller]

Like, well, you've been through it. You've been through a tough patch and you're fighting through it. I really like your moxie, I like your confidence and how you're leaning forward and until you went sideways with me there on the way to what was me, that thing like you're somehow. Listen, you are taking the steps to control your success. You control your success. There's no boogeyman in the economy, there's no boogeyman in capitalism. You control your success and what you figured out is I'm not making enough money so I need to go get some training to make more money. Good for you. Well done, sir. So you're going to code school for a year, right? Right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes sir.

[Caller]

What do you make now?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Cybersecurity at ut. Also I'm unemployed.

[Caller]

Why?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I actually just, I just moved. So her family.

[Caller]

You just moved from where?

[Dr. John Deloney]

From Maryville to Oneida, Tennessee and you're.

[Caller]

Going to University of Tennessee?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, no, I'm going to be going to TCAT for a year and then I'm going to do a few months of coding training at ut. It's like a boot camp thing they have that I plan to do afterwards is up. I'm gonna go to ut. That's the plan. My goal is to have every certification I can get so that when I go looking for a job, I have no issues finding one.

[Caller]

No, you don't. You just need enough certifications to get a job. And as a matter of fact, you can probably get that now. You gotta be doing something right now. When are you going to work?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I, like I said, I just moved recently. I had to quit my job because it was gonna be like a two hour commute. I was working at a credit union down there. There. And quit because we moved so far. And I was like, you know.

[Caller]

Maryville is not a two hour commute to Knoxville.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, no, I'm saying I moved to Oneida.

[Caller]

Why?

[Dr. John Deloney]

From Maryville to Oneida, because that's where my fiance's family is from. And they offered us the ability to move into their trailer rent free. No house payment. So we gave up our $2,700 a month house payment in Maryville, where I'm from, to move to where she's from and although, you know.

[Caller]

Yeah, but I'm not in a. Knoxville is a commute. Dude, that's a long way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it's like 50, 55 hour, something like that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But yeah, that's my goal is. And I've been looking, I've been.

[Caller]

There was not a two hour commute anywhere in this story. What happened? I'm so confused.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so I'm sorry. I know it's a lot. It's been. It's been.

[Caller]

Where was the two hour commute from Knoxville to Oneida? Yes, there was a commute to go see her mother, but not to work.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I work in Madisonville. I worked in Madisonville, so I drove. I would have had to drive from Oneida to Madisonville every day. That's the two hour commute.

[Caller]

Oh, I see.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's why I had to quit my job, because I couldn't drive from Oneida to Madisonville every day. It just wasn't realistic.

[Caller]

You quit your job to go get a free trailer. Now you don't have a job.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Yes, sir.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But the plan was, here's why. We were so struggling to get by in the house that we lived in because it was so expensive. It was a $2,700 a month payment. And with everything else we have going on, it was just hard for us to get by paying those payments when they said, hey, you can move in.

[Caller]

Yeah. So the tails wagging the dog, though, dude. You quit your job, you can sell the house and not quit your job. You Sell the house and stay in that end of town, that end of the country and keep your job. Now you don't have a job.

[Dave Ramsey]

You set your feet on fire.

[Caller]

You trade your traded your job for a trailer rent with your mother in law. So that, that, that's where, that's what's blowing my mind here. No, you honey, you. The way you're going to prosper is you're going to go back to work. Okay? Now, now while you're going to school full time, you're going to work full time. I worked 40 to 60 hours a week in Marvel when I was at the University of T and I graduated in four years. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home. Scared doesn't even begin to cover it. But I got mad enough to change. I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money. That journey became the total money makeover. A plan everyday people can use to take control of their money. Millions have changed their lives following the plan in this book and found hope. Start your makeover [e-mail] store. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality is my co host today. He's the number one best selling author and host of the Dr. John DeLoney Show. A big hit on the Ramsey Networks. You ought to be sure you check it out. Ph.D. in counseling. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Mike's in Seattle. Hi Mike, how are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good sir. How are you?

[Caller]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So my wife and I, you know, we got ourselves is mainly my fault. I'll be completely honest about that. Mainly, you know, I'm the spender in the marriage. We got married about five years ago now and you know, I kind of, I racked up some credit card debt and we've been trying to pay it off. The only thing we've done right during this entire time is we've earned a lot and we've tithed consistently the entire time. Right now we're tithing about three to $5,000 a month. We earn anywhere from 300 to $350,000 a year. But we just cannot seem to get ahead of this debt thing. So I guess my first question would be how does, how does God feel about me not tithing and using that extra 3, 4, $5,000 a month to try to get out of debt.

[Caller]

I don't think you have a 10% problem. I think you have a 90% problem.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

You're horrible at managing money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, for sure.

[Caller]

I mean, you make $350,000, and you're broke. So 10% doesn't fix that. I mean, I can. I can tell you what. How God feels about it, and I will. I will sidebar that in a few minutes, but let's actually deal with what's going on, because 10% doesn't fix it. How much debt have y' all got.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In credit cards? You got, like, 43. I've got, you know, 45 on a. On a. On a Tesla and probably 30 left on a Ram.

[Caller]

Okay. All right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then, you know, our mortgage is probably. It's like 505 we've got left.

[Caller]

Yeah. Instead of worrying about $3,000 a month, why don't we get rid of two $45,000 cars?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And I knew. I knew you'd. I knew you'd say that. Dave. My whole thing is, you know, I'm in construction, and I. I probably drive more than anyone. You know, I drive about four, easily 4,000 miles a month, and I was doing that with a tradition.

[Caller]

Canada?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, just all over the state. Just all over the state. Yeah, I. My, my. You know, I. Probably.

[Caller]

So you're destroying a $30,000 round?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, yeah, It's. Yeah, it's a. I've had it a year, and it's. It's. I don't know. It's probably like 50,000 miles on it already.

[Caller]

Yeah. So you're destroying the value rapidly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, for sure.

[Caller]

That's a bad business decision.

It is. It is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I don't even know where to start. I mean, I do.

[Caller]

I just started new sidetracked automatically. I just told you.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you bring home a month?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Month.

[Caller]

He's 350,000 a year. $25,000 a month.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah, it's about that. I bring home about 20,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, but hold on. Let's say you have $1,000 a month truck payment. You got $1,000 a month Tesla payment. That's 2,000. That's $23,000 left.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know.

[Caller]

Where's it going then?

[Dave Ramsey]

You got a house payment for half a million dollars. Let's say it's 7,000. Right. And you're down to, what, 23 minus 7? Was that $16,000? Like, what are you doing with this money?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't.

[Caller]

I Don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't even blame the debts.

[Caller]

And that's where, that's where God's concerned. He's not worried about your tithe. Those that are faithful, if you, if you want to be spiritual about it, we'll talk about what the Bible says. When you're faithful with the little things, you'll be given more to manage. And you've not been faithful with what you've been given. And so listen, you're building a house. If you built a house this shoddy, it'd fall over.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yep, yep.

[Caller]

Okay, so you've got to get, you and your wife need to sit down and say, all right, we've been too blessed to be this sloppy. We're going to start managing this money. We're going to make this money behave. And in the midst of that, we're going to make some decisions about purchases and paying off debts. Okay, but 90, I mean, $110,000 gets you out of debt. You could be debt free in a year if you bothered to live on 200,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know.

[Caller]

So that's all it takes. Okay? It doesn't take. The tithe is not blocking you mathematically. What's blocking you is the other 90% that's not being managed well. So let's get on a written plan. I'll put you into every dollar, the premium version. And you and your wife sit down tonight and you all start a plan where you spend every dollar on paper before the month begins and you start making the money that you have beheaded. Here's what's weird. You will get peace immediately once you get on top of this money instead of it being on top of you. All this disjointed chaos is robbing your peace. And you've mentioned a couple of times I'm the spender. And you mentioned regret and shame and those kinds of things. That stuff goes away when you just decide. Those emotions, negative emotions, all go away when you just decide, me and my wife are grown ups and we're going to tell our money what to do and we're going to look at God and be proud of how we've managed what he has blessed us with. And then the tithe is not an issue anymore because you're going to clear the debt and tithe. And you're a hard working dude, you're a very productive guy. You don't have any trouble making money, you just have trouble keeping it. So, yeah, and dude, I don't want you to, I don't want you to look up 10 years from now and go, Hey, I made $3 million in the last 10 years and I got nothing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

That would be like having the worst hangover ever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And that's where I'm headed.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So other than the every, every dollar budget, should I be selling everything? You know, should I go that, that.

[Caller]

You may need to. But I think what you got to do more than anything else is get your, your monthly cash flow under control. And if you can't redirect enough of that to clear these debts and start living on less than you make, then you've got other issues. Can I ask you, because you make a lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

How's your health?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's terrible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Here's what you need more than anything. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because this doesn't happen in a vacuum. You're a guy who's lost trust in himself.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you, you don't need a.

[Caller]

On this, on this issue.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, on your health, on your weight, you've lost trust in you, haven't you?

[Caller]

You?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're trying to. You've tried to achieve that with a dollar amount in the bank account and it hasn't, it hasn't made you feel whole. What you need more than a hack is, as my friend Lane says, stop stepping over a hundred dollar bills to pick up pennies. You need a steady, like a steady consistent display of discipline for nobody else but you to begin to prove to yourself that you're worth feeling good.

[Caller]

I'm going to, I'm going to walk a mile in the morning. I'm going to eat less and I'm going to make my money behave, and I'm going to be in agreement with my spouse on all of these things. And dude, that's going to change everything for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

It'll change everything.

[Caller]

And by the way, God doesn't need your tithe. He has you to tithe because it's good for you to learn to be a giver because it's part of who you are. You're made in his image and he's a giver. And so he has us to tithe to remind. Remind us that part of our created being is one of generosity. That's why we're tithing. Not because he needs your money and not because he's going to punish you if you don't or you do tithe. None of that. But you're tithing for that reason, to continue to flex the generosity muscle.

If you're a teacher, you're not just shaping minds, you're shaping future decision makers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most students don't realize they're part of the economy. Every school, every part time job, every.

[Caller]

Shopping spree is a money move that drives the system. So this year you can help students.

Understand the world they're already living in.

Our brand new high school curriculum, foundations.

And economics is packed with engaging videos.

Hands on activities and real world examples.

Check it out today@ramsey solutions.com economics that's ramseysolutions.com economics. Well, between comparing quotes and figuring out what coverage you need, shopping for home and auto insurance can be overwhelming and really pricey. Hey, let a Ramsey trusted pro do the hard work for you. They shop the rates, they shop the bundle policies, they get you the right coverage at a bargain. And most people save over 800 bucks when they use one of these independent agents who shop around a month. Several companies, they don't work for a single company. They don't work for the lizard. They don't work for the state farm people. They work for a bunch of different companies finding you the best deal so they actually work for you. Smarter way to shop for insurance, go to Ramsey Solutions.com bundle ramseysolutions.com bundle or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or on a podcast. Hillary is with us in Huntsville, Alabama. Hi, Hillary. Welcome to the Ramsey Show Show.

Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure.

I'm a little nervous. Okay. We are trying to figure out if we should sell some properties to either pay off our mortgage or do an addition on our house.

Okay.

We owe the mortgage is 3,500amonth. And how much the balance property properties, it's 500,000.

Okay. All right. And the, you said, you said do some work or do an addition to the house. Would you say?

Yeah, we. So we sold our house and Huntsville four years ago and we moved into one of our properties. We paid off five rental properties that we own. When we did that, we moved into one of those properties for about eight months and then we found our forever home. I want to say, I know you guys hate that term, but our dream home on Lake Gunnersville purchased that for 750,000. And so we're trying to figure out.

500K on a $750,000 purchase. And you want to renovate the home you just purchased?

We do. Well, it's a big fixer upper. So we bought it. It's on the lake, it's on the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Water.

[Caller]

But yeah, it needs a lot of work.

What kind of work does it need?

Well, it's about 2,000 square feet. We've got three kids. It just, it's in 1960s. Just. It needs an updated kitchen. We're sharing a bathroom. So we would just love to have some square footage.

Okay. And the houses, the houses in the immediate proximity. So for what?

Just two houses down, a household for 1.7 million.

All right.

And it's a two bedroom home, it's lake house.

So. Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. So you're going to spend how much on all this renovation, do you think?

It's about $400,000 is what would been quoted after our architectural drawings came through.

Okay. And, and what are your rental properties always worth?

Well, our net worth, the only debt we have is in the house, and our net worth is about 2.5 million with the house included.

Okay, but you got 250,000 equity there, so that means you have rental properties worth two and a. Two and a quarter, 2.25 million.

Well, actually, so the rental properties are worth. Yes, just right around 2 million.

Okay, so sell a million dollars of them and pay off your mortgage and fix up your house.

Okay. Okay. Well, I didn't know if, if it would just be a no, no to do the renovation because we are worried about taking that monthly pay cut. I guess we bring in about 19,000 right now.

I'm not worried enough about it to not borrow 400 grand.

Well, we weren't going to do both. We were just going to try to figure out, okay, should we sell a property or two to do the renovation. But would that be smart to do that while we.

I woke up in your shoes and you know, you've already set the terms of surrender here. The terms of surrender are you bought a lake house and you are going to renovate it. So those are givens that's not going to be undone. There's nothing in this description that left any of that on the table to be undone. Going to drive you nuts, I'll just tell you because you're spending almost as much on the stupid renovation as you did on the purchase of the house, which tells me you're going to be up a creek for a long period. Drywall dust is your new breakfast. Okay, so yuck. But anyway, you're doing this, so I think you're selling a million dollars worth of property and you're paying off your mortgage and you're 100% debt free and you fix up the house that you're living in. It's why you guys have worked and done all this. You didn't work and do all this to be landlords. You worked and did all this to have a place to live that you like and have a good quality life. And no borrowing or deciding not to borrow. Not deciding not to pay off my mortgage so that I can do the renovation. It's the same thing as borrowing to do the renovation.

Right, right.

You're just moving the P under a different shell Zo, so it doesn't do any good. So yeah, if I'm in your shoes, I'm just gonna sell a couple of these rental properties. Properties, you know, get down to a million dollars, then you're gonna million dollars worth of rentals. You're a million dollar house. A million two house. I hope. Million five house. I hope if you take 750 and you put 450 in it, I pray God it's worth a million five after you're done.

Well, the comps in the area for a finished home for the 17 for the 1 down the street.

Yeah, but I mean you better, you better be, you better be as nice as it is when you're done.

Right? Right.

So.

Yes.

And you guys have done enough construction that you have an idea what you're getting into, I hope.

Yes. We've actually fixed up all of our rental properties ourselves.

Okay. Yeah. Because this is going to be a, this is not a small task you're taking. And these are the kinds of things that people do where they bust budgets and they add and scope creep as you go along and all of a sudden your 400 ends up being 600.

Okay.

So you lay out a detailed, you lay out a detailed construction budget and a detailed construction timeline and a detailed blueprint and you manage to those three pieces of paper and you do this renovation professionally, on time, on budget and to plan. Don't make it up as you go because you're going to end up 6 or 700k in. You know how that works. Right.

And we do have, I forgot to mention, we've got 180,000 in savings as well.

Well then maybe, maybe you've got a $700,000 property you sell then. I don't know what these properties are worth individually, but I would just look through and find enough of the rental properties with my 180 to pay off my mortgage and to do my renovation with cash.

Okay.

Because you're going to do both and you might as well just do it and then use your increased cash flow because you don't have any mortgage payments anymore to save up and start talking about buying another property at some point if you Want to move back into another piece of real estate at some point with cash. But we're out of debt. We're going to stay out of debt, we're going to work our way. That's the point of having a 2 million dollar net worth is to get, to get to do the stuff you want to do. And so I, you know, I'm more concerned about my home at this point. Now your home should be 1.7. Yeah. Your house can be a lot. Very high percentage of your net worth worth be over 50% of your net worth. That's a little scary. That's a little scary with your all's net worth. So you guys are heavily invested in this stinking link deal. I'll just tell you it's, it's, it's, it's getting close to being crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

What would you like to see Dave? On a, on a breakdown of somebody's net worth?

[Caller]

You got a three million dollar net worth. I mean I don't want more than a million dollar house usually. And she's going to be at a million seven. Yeah. And she's, you know, and it's going to. The other million three is going to be the real estate that's left.

[Dave Ramsey]

Other houses.

[Caller]

Yeah. And the other stuff. And so we've, we've plowed it all into our single family personal residence which does not generate revenue. Right. And so you got too much of your net worth tied up. Now if your net worth is a million dollars, 50% of your net worth going into your house is one thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

But when it's 3 million it starts to be, I don't know, it doesn't feel great.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is a rule of thumb for.

[Caller]

The higher your net worth, the smaller the percentage of your net worth needs.

[Dave Ramsey]

To be in one asset.

[Caller]

Your, your home should be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is there a rule of thumb on how much you should expect to go over on a renovation this big?

[Caller]

I don't expect to go over a dime. I lay out a detailed budget and a detailed plan. I mean I just built a several million dollar house last year and it was 2% under budget. And, and it was two months early. Yeah. So. And I used a contractor, he did a great job. But we managed to the budget and we managed to the schedule and we managed to the blueprint. So scope creep is, that's the decorators thing we don't do. Listen, your home is your most expensive asset and now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market One mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner. Someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well and negotiate the best deal. That's where a Ramsey trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you, go to ramseysolutions.com agent. That's ramseysolutions.com agent.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Foreign.

[Caller]

If you like what you hear on this show, we can appreciate, we would appreciate you leaving us a five star review. Clicking the share button and letting your friends know about it. Click the follow button, the subscribe button, whatever it is in the methodology and platform that you're listening on, all that stuff makes a huge difference to the algorithms on the. It pushes the different platforms. If you involve yourself, engage with the show, it pushes us forward and other people see the show. So thank you for that. We appreciate it. The growth in our viewership. Listenership is off the chain and it's because of you guys. So thank you very, very much. We appreciate you spreading the good word. Michael's with us in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey, Michael, how are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm doing terrific, Dave. I'm calling you guys today because I've got a serious spending problem and I hope you can help.

[Caller]

Okay, tell me about it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, a little background. I've lived a very frugal lifestyle and I've accumulated a little wealth. But I'm at the point in my life where I can afford to spend it. But I have an emotionally a hard time buying things that go down in value like a rock. And I'm, I'm, I'm torn because I'm entertaining the, entertaining the idea of spending a hundred thousand dollars for something with wheels.

[Caller]

Good. How much money you got? What's your net worth?

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's about 3 million.

[Caller]

Okay. What are you talking about buying? It's 100k.

[Dr. John Deloney]

A recreational vehicle.

[Caller]

Okay. That's not much for an RV.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I have, I currently have. It would be a hundred thousand above what I currently have invested in recreational vehicles. I have about 50,000 invested in recreational.

[Caller]

So you, you would trade in one of the fit. You trade in the 50,000 and put a hundred cash with it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Caller]

Okay, so you're gonna buy an rv. What are you gonna do with the rv?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm going to travel.

[Caller]

Good, good. Okay. Are you single?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm. What? No, I have a wife and she, she wants, she likes to travel too.

[Caller]

Good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But, but I, I have lived so long using the live on less than you make Satan.

[Caller]

Good for you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do that sort of thing paid off.

[Caller]

And you started. You started with nothing. You didn't inherit this money, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I inherited zero.

[Caller]

So you got $3 million. How old are you again?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm 78.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. All right, cool.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I started the Dave Ramsey method about 10 years before you invented it, so.

[Caller]

Used to be called common sense, didn't it, Michael?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I just did. I just didn't have enough sense to make it into a radio show and become more wealthy.

[Caller]

All right, so the rule I use, from an emotional standpoint or for a spiritual standpoint, if I stand before God, am I being irresponsible with the money he entrusted me with? Number one, that's the spiritual side. Emotionally, how can I deal with this? And it helps me if Sharon's wanting to go on a nice trip or we're wanting to make a purchase that, based on my old life would have been very weird to purchase something like that for you. That's $150,000 RV. It feels weird because it's not a muscle you've ever used before. One thing that's helped me with that, I look at two things on the responsibility side. Number one is my generosity. Good. Am I giving? If I'm giving, and we give carefully, a lot more than we spend, so we don't have to publish that from a PR standpoint or publicity standpoint. But if I'm giving and I'm being generous, then it's okay for me to also enjoy some of what God has blessed me with. Okay, and the second rule I use is the burn the money in the middle of the floor rule. Okay? So if you took $100,000 and lit fire to it, your net worth would be 2.9 million. Million. Your life would not change. Your life would not change one ounce.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It doesn't change my life a bit.

[Caller]

That's exactly it. And so that means it's not irresponsible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dave, I've never earned more than $50,000 a year in my life, and yet I've accumulated.

[Caller]

You're amazing. That's amazing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I. I always tried to buy things that I would. That were not. That were not money pits.

[Caller]

And it worked for you. It worked for you. An RV is like a boat. It's a money pit. But, dude, you have earned it. Get you and your wife a good RV and go for a ride, baby.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's time to change. How did I do it?

[Caller]

It's not a change. You just look at. You say, if I burn this money in the middle of the floor, if this is the worst mistake I've ever made in my life. It does not change our life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It doesn't change a thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here's, here's, here's the thing I want you to do. I want you to tonight by yourself. Write, write Michael, 88 year old Michael a letter and say, dear Michael, I'm so glad as I wrap up my life that I've got all this money in the account and I've got no experiences to show for it. And then I want you to write Michael another letter at 88 years old and say, dear Michael, Michael, me and my wife left no tread on the tires those last 10 years. And you read both of them to her. And then that make. You'll be at the, at the dealer in the morning and you'll be on the way to Kentucky tomorrow evening. Get in that RV and go have an adventure, my brother.

[Caller]

Yeah, proud of you. Very well done, sir. And for the rest of you listening, that is a completely different conversation then. Well, I'm gonna live while I can and I'm gonna spend while I'm young. I don't want to get old. And no. And that's someone who is spending, they're burning so much money in the middle of the floor that it is affecting their life. You know, they're spending money on travel that they don't have. They're spending money on cars that they don't have. They're spending money on things they don't have. The difference is Michael has the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

The thing Michael's short on is time. Go.

[Caller]

Yeah, go do it. Go do it. Go do it while you can. And you know, run it, baby. Run the gauntlet on the thing now. But, and so that is not the same advice that I would give to a 22 year old who's broke because it's not the same, you know, oh, no, live your life. Enjoy your life. That's an immature person making an excuse for buying crap they can't afford or doing things they can't afford to do. Right? And that's a completely different conversation. Although it sounds like the same result, but it's not, it's a completely different direction. That's what we're doing. So the point is, is that you, you. He's right though. We run into this with folks who have built a good net worth. Very often you're, you're spending muscle atrophies because you don't use it. You never spend any money. Money. And so then when you do try to spend money, it's hard emotionally it strains you. And that's. He's being honest. He wasn't. He wasn't making up a joke. That was a true thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he's never made more than $50,000 and $3 million.

[Caller]

Yeah. At 78 years old. So tell me that it can't be done. Of course it can be done. It. This thing called success, this thing called wealth building. It can be done. And so. And the odd thing is when we studied that, when we did that millionaire study that we talk about in Baby Steps, millionaires book that out of the 10,000 millionaires that we studied, one third of them, which was surprising to me, have never had an income over 100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

That really shocks me, too.

[Caller]

I would have guessed some high percentage, 50%. Never had an income over 200,000. I would have guessed that. But not one third. Never made in their working life $100,000. And yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Diligence.

[Caller]

They're millionaires.

[Dave Ramsey]

Diligence.

[Caller]

It's a steady. It's a steadiness. The steadiness. Time and consistency. Time and consistency. This is where money comes from.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's where health comes from. That's where weight loss comes from. That's where good marriages come from.

[Caller]

Just you mentioned Clear earlier on Atomic Habits and our buddy James, and he, he says it's, you know, doing a little thing every day.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do it every.

[Caller]

The cumulative effect of that is a lot more than doing a big thing once. Occasionally.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right.

[Caller]

Yeah. And that's true in investing. It's true with relationships. It's true with exercise.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's like. You hear that? Like, hey, I bought a whole bunch of flowers, man. Every day. Did you just help with the dishes? Just do that. Just do that over and over and over and over.

[Caller]

Shut up, John.

[Dave Ramsey]

And over and over.

[Caller]

I did. I did last night with the dishes. Last night. Night. He did. I really did. I didn't. I didn't a long time ago, but now I do. Now I do. Our scripture of the day, Galatians 6, 4, 5. Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone without comparing themselves to. To someone else. For each one should carry their own load. Jordan Peterson said, do only those things that you could speak of with honor. That. That doesn't even sound like him. But, I mean, not to say he wouldn't say something like that, but he. That's just an. That's a cool quote. I like it. I like that a lot. Great quote. Brianna is with us in Dallas. Hey, Brianna. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure.

[Caller]

Welcome. What's up?

So I just need some advice because.

[Dr. John Deloney]

About? Well, me and my husband had a daughter about 10 months ago now.

[Caller]

Yay. And he lost his job around the same time.

Wow.

And so it's just been me single.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Income, and it's not at all what we expected going into.

[Caller]

He's not gotten a job in seven months. Months.

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why?

[Caller]

I don't really know. I mean, he has a bachelor's degree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why isn't he throwing boxes at Walmart?

[Caller]

So right now he is doing like Tasker jobs. So like doing housework for people.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But that's kind of the only job that he. What's he making or like what does he make?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, doing that.

[Caller]

He makes probably like on a good day, about $500 a day.

Okay.

Yes. But it's not every day.

It's like, it's like 50 an hour for 10 hours work.

Yes. I think he charges $35 an hour.

Is he working 40 hours, making 35 an hour? Hour.

So maybe not $500.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Maybe closer to like five.

[Caller]

I'm sorry.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's $500 a week is basically what he brings.

[Caller]

So he's not working 40 hours?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, it's.

[Caller]

It's basically like people sign up for what.

I understand what it is, but he's not working 40 hours. Why?

No, no, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get 40 hours.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's not working with supporting him, like trying to do more, I guess I.

[Caller]

Don'T need to support him. He needs to get off his butt and go, I need support. So what was he doing? They got fired from.

So he was a child, a children's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Director at a church that just didn't work out. Like, he's not really good at the admin side of things.

[Caller]

Okay, so what is he going to do with his life and when is he going to get his income up? That's your all's problem is your husband is not working. Why? Why? And how are we going to fix that? That's what we come down to in this conversation. Does that make any sense at all? Your main breadwinner at this point is not earning much money and doesn't have a plan to. It doesn't sound like that's scaring me.

Yeah, well, I've always been the bigger income earner. I'm a nurse.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I have always been the breadwinner in a sense. So we've been able to make it, but we just can't pay off our.

[Caller]

Debt because he's not working.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you defending him so much. Why are you defending him? You're talking to two husbands with kids.

[Caller]

And spouses who believe in hard work all the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you defending him? I'm just, I'm just curious.

[Caller]

I mean he's not on here to defend himself.

[Dave Ramsey]

So on behalf, on behalf of husbands and fathers everywhere where he needs to go get two jobs if not three and begin to scratch and claw his way back. Cuz he's lost faith in himself. He's lost trust in himself.

[Caller]

He is pin sitting around looking at the app waiting on somebody to task him to put in a dishwasher.

[Dave Ramsey]

My 15 year old son made more money than that this summer cleaning horse stalls with a shovel. Like it, it's, it's about getting out there and taking care of his baby girl and honoring his family. I mean it's that simple. And Dave and I are both guys who follow dreams too. But we also had to work day jobs when we were first starting. That's just the nature of it.

[Caller]

So what I'm going to do is I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book the Proximity Principle. I'm also going to send you a copy of finding the work you're wired to do for him. I want him to take that assessment that's in there and develop a game plan to go be somebody.

[Dave Ramsey]

I also want to send you economically go be somebody building an unanxious life, y'. All, I'll say it this way, you're enabling this stuff. If you keep apologizing for him and keep trying to support him and pat him on the back seven months later, that shame things getting deeper and deeper and deeper. I want you all to read that book together too. There's three of them. We'll send you.

[Caller]

Yeah, we're going to load you up and try to help you get going. But the answer to your math equation is more income and it's sitting in front of you looking at an app waiting on someone to task him to do a dishwasher and he's not even doing a lot of that. So there's lots of things to do in your wonderful city of Dallas that people will pay you for. And they're not necessarily what you want to do right then, but you do what you got to do till you don't got to do it no more. And you just push and push and yeah, I would imagine that he's anxious and I'll help you with this. His anxiety will go down as his workload goes down, shows up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. And his shame and his, that low level dysthymia, that, that depressive feeling. I don't, I don't know and I don't. That will go away as he begins to walk taller, that he is proving to himself that he can work hard. And by the way, people like to do the counselory part, but they don't like to take notes. They like to do the ministry play and, and let's think about things, but they don't like doing the administrative stuff. That's just part of. That's just a job.

[Caller]

Job.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a job.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, and so he has to do things he doesn't like. And that's the core here, man. He's got to go work and all work has hard parts of the job that's not fun, no matter even this job that we have. And it, look, it's a blast. But there's also parts of it that are hard that I don't like to do, I don't want to do. But it's part of the job. Every job has that. And he's gonna have to get over himself and then get after it and go get a job, get multiple jobs, get his confidence back and then he can start looking towards what do we actually want to build together. But man, oh man, oh man.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave, this is like the second or third call we've taken today.

[Caller]

Yeah, there's a manhood crisis, there's a bad manhood crisis. And it's just, I don't, I don't know what it is and it's happening.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's, I mean it's multi layered and multi tiered, but there's a lot.

[Caller]

There'S a lot under underlying all of these things. And there's different situations obviously that we're talking to, but it still comes down to my grandmother used to say there's a great place to go when you're born broke to work, right. And the first thing you do is you get up and you leave the cave. You kill something and you drag it home. We will discuss living dreams and self actualizing and maximizing your potential and putting right tools in your belt and education and all those things later. Right now, let's go about the business of eating.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let me say this, let me own this. On behalf of the mental health practitioners in the United States. States. We sold everybody this bill of goods, which is the key to being well and whole and right with yourself in relationship was to get all the right thoughts in the right order. And if you just sit around and think about the next thing and think about it and think about it and think about it. Then suddenly everything becomes clear. And that's just not how it works. You have to take action on things. And so if you sit around waiting for this job to materialize in your mind, waiting for this plan to. That's just not how it works. Works. You get out there and start working, and you start figuring out what part about this job I'm good at, I'm not good at, I, like, don't like, I'm gonna take another job and another job, and it begins to distill down for you what you are fully created to go do. And then you get really good at that thing, and then you become passionate about it. But this idea that I'm. I don't know, man, it's just ruining families across the country.

[Caller]

It's diligent, prosper you. Gosh. Not the contemplative. There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

And even the contemplatives, even the monks, had daily ritual practices that got unworked.

[Caller]

Oh, it's a thing they did. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't just sit here and think your way to these solutions. You got to get out there and get after it. If you feel stuck, go get a job, go to a gym, go for a walk, go do things. And then your thoughts begin to work themselves out.

[Caller]

Well, and, you know, I'm. I'm singing to the choir here, but the data also says that the chemicals are released, the endorphins are released that fight back depression, that fight back the blues when you are engaged physically into doing something, when you're mentally engaged into doing something. And so when you step into something, all of the condemnation and the shame, bad tapes playing in your head, they start to run out because you're too tired to think about and you're focused on a thing. Yeah. Yeah. And like a guy I used to work for said, he said, you won't die of hard work. Right before you die, you'll pass out. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

Sa.