My Fiancé Broke Off Our Engagement Because Of My Money Habits

Summary

The Ramsey Show — Episode Summary

Episode Title: My Fiancé Broke Off Our Engagement Because Of My Money Habits
Date: February 5, 2026
Hosts: George Kamel, Rachel Cruze (plus Dave Ramsey and Ken Coleman on select segments)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers around real-life money problems and relationships, focusing on callers dealing with the emotional and practical impacts of debt, breakups, career transitions, and tough financial decision-making. The first key call addresses a broken engagement due to money habits, leading to deep discussion on healing, growth, and boundaries with money. The episode continues with diverse financial dilemmas—from car-buying regrets and divorce finances to long-term care and legacy planning—plus a lively segment on 2026 financial predictions.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Caller: Rita — Breakup Over Money Habits

[00:37–09:01]

• Background: Rita, age 28, recently broke off an engagement. Her ex-fiancé was “anti-debt” and ended the relationship not over her debt balance, but over her money behaviors and relationship with money.
• She describes a history of family financial struggle, having acquired debt after her father's death while caring for her family. Money is an emotional trigger for her.
• Rita is now working the Ramsey Baby Steps, building an emergency fund, and paying down debt. Yet, her progress was seen as insufficient by her ex.

Discussion & Advice:

• Rachel Cruze and George Kamel express empathy for Rita’s vulnerable situation.
  • Rachel: “He broke up with the most vulnerable part of you in your fear.” ([05:12])
  • George: "It just might be one of those fork in the roads where you look back and go, man, that was a pivotal time in my life.” ([06:36])
• The hosts encourage Rita to separate her self-worth from her net worth.
  • Rachel: "Our money, money mistakes, your net worth—none of this is who you are as a person. It's a reflection of our behaviors and habits...but in our society today it’s become such an identity piece." ([07:16])
• Rita is gifted Rachel Cruze’s book Know Yourself, Know Your Money for her healing journey.

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2. Caller: Nancy — Car Regret & Chronic Debt

[10:34–19:35]

• Nancy, 60, single, and nearing retirement, has a weakness for cars and bought a new Bronco Sport, adding to her existing $20k credit card debt. She regrets the purchase and is considering another car swap but feels stuck.
• With a $75k annual income, $4,300/month pension pending, and a $385/month car payment, she’s frustrated by cycles of debt.

Key Advice:

• Don’t trade one car debt for another; eliminate the cycle.
  • George: “Nancy, please don’t do any of this. We’re playing the wrong games.” ([13:43])
• Hosts coach Nancy to sell her car, save cash, buy a cheap used car, and attack debt aggressively before retiring.
  • Rachel: “Adults devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good. You are a grown woman who is smart, who’s hardworking. Frame some of these impulses...” ([18:40])
  • George: “You said you wanted to retire? Let’s become completely debt free with a fully funded emergency fund as we enter retirement.” ([16:43])

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3. Caller: Bree — Divorce, Financial Abuse & Entitlement

[22:39–31:05]

• Bree is a stay-at-home mom going through a divorce with little personal income and three kids. She worries her husband will financially cut her off and try to limit her share of assets.
• Discussed legal and emotional rights regarding child support, alimony, pensions—even amidst her feelings of guilt and self-doubt.

Key Insights and Quotes:

• Rachel: “He’s never ever going to give you the respect you deserve … So what I would do is… you need to know your legal rights. Every state is different when it comes to divorce law.” ([26:08])
• George: “There’s going to be no guilt here. You are entitled to probably half or more of the assets… This is what narcissists do—they gaslight and make you think you were the problem.” ([29:50–30:06])
• Hosts emphasize gathering facts, leaning on legal support, and separating her emotional value from her ex’s manipulation.

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4. Other Notable Calls & Segments

Donald (Toronto) — When to Use the Emergency Fund

[33:03–38:49]

• Car totaled by a city bus; struggles to dip into emergency fund.
• Hosts confirm: “Is it urgent, necessary, unexpected? A car totaled by a bus is all three.” ([34:20])
• Use some emergency funds for a reliable car, then rebuild the fund.
    

Crystal (Boise) — Whole Life vs Term Insurance

[39:18–41:50]

• Crystal considers dropping a costly whole life insurance for a cheaper term policy.
• George: “You need life insurance until you no longer need life insurance. Once the term’s over, you should be self-insured.” ([40:03])

Charlotte (Columbia, SC) — Sudden Student Loan Burden

[45:00–52:31]

• Charlotte and husband face $100k student loans after breaking ties with her dad, who’d promised to help. They have a $75k CD they could cash out to clear the debt early.
• Hosts recommend analyzing penalties and considering early payout to free future income for life goals.

Scott (Bowling Green) — Living Debt-Free in Retirement

[54:47–60:03]

• At 65, Scott has a paid-off home, healthy retirement nest egg, and wants tips for investing and maximizing retirement account options.
• Hosts advise: fully fund high-yield emergency savings, then max out IRAs, brokerage accounts, and diversify mutual funds.
    

Elizabeth (Columbia, SC) — Aging Parent’s Financial Decisions & Family Dynamics

[85:51–93:59]

• Her 87-year-old widowed father is buying a new home with his girlfriend, complicating inheritance for his children and raising concern over potential manipulation.
• Recommendations: Seek estate planning, establish clear boundaries, and protect her father’s interests without alienating him.

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5. 2026 Financial Predictions Panel

[65:41–74:34]
Panel: George Kamel, Rachel Cruze, Ken Coleman

Predictions Highlights:

• Mortgage rates (Rachel): Will trend downward from 7% to mid-5s or high 4s.
• Sports Betting (George): Will continue sabotaging young men’s finances as normalization increases.
  • Rachel: “It’s the most unattractive thing… I don’t own a home but I’m going to go and freaking sports bet because I’m not athletic enough to play the game.”
• Airbnb Market (Ken): Lower-tier listings will decline while luxury Airbnbs will thrive.
• Stock Market (George): Predicts consistency with positive performance, tech and AI as drivers.
• “Buy Now Pay Later” (Rachel): Will worsen for consumers with mounting fees and risk.
• Job Market (Ken): “Low hire, low fire” year; stagnant job growth, high demand in healthcare, trades, logistics, and AI-adjacent fields.
  • Ken: “2026 job market will be ready Low, high, low fire … White collar tech jobs are getting killed because of AI…”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Money & Identity
  • Rachel Cruze [07:16]: “Your money mistakes, your net worth…none of that is your identity and who you are.”
  • George Kamel [08:15]: “You are worth being loved. You’re a person who can have a healthy relationship. A lot of this is detaching from maybe unhealthy family baggage...”
• On Financial Healing
  • George Kamel [06:36]: “You can replay this a thousand ways, and it’s not going to get you any closer to your future. Learn from what broke and rebuild trust in yourself…”
• On Delayed Gratification & Maturity
  • Rachel Cruze [18:39]: “Adults devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good. And you’re not a child…”
• On Boundaries in Divorce
  • George Kamel [30:05]: “This is what narcissists do. They gaslight and make you think you were the problem…”
• On Emergency Funds
  • Rachel Cruze [37:49]: “Use enough to make sure that it’s reliable. But don’t go good and crazy...you are the bank. Zero percent interest.”
• On Rebuilding After Debt
  • George Kamel [48:39]: “Maybe this child is your deep why of: I want this kid to grow up in a house that doesn’t know debt, that has financial stability.”
• On Accepting Gifts with Strings
  • George Kamel [126:12]: “She doesn’t get to control what the gift is. The thing to think about is: can you afford the higher insurance, the maintenance…?”

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Timestamps of Other Key Segments

• [10:34] Nancy & Car Regrets
• [22:39] Bree’s Divorce & Financial Abuse
• [33:03] Donald’s Emergency Fund Dilemma
• [39:18] Crystal: Term vs. Whole Life
• [45:00] Charlotte: Student Loan Shock
• [54:52] Scott: Wealth in Retirement
• [65:41] 2026 Financial Predictions
• [85:51] Elizabeth: Elderly Parent/Inheritance
• [99:22] Dustin: Attacking $40K Debt with New Job
• [122:55] Jared: Gift Car with Stipulations

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Tone & Style

The episode blends tough love, practical advice, empathy, and humor. Rachel and George maintain both compassion and directness, especially when callers express shame, fear, or confusion about money. Ken Coleman injects lively skepticism and energy during prediction segments, and Dave Ramsey grounds discussions with trademark maxims: “Adults devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good.” The show’s tone is ever-encouraging—focused on learning, moving forward, and reclaiming hope.

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Conclusion

This episode spotlights the complex ways money intersects with emotion, relationships, and life transitions—from heartbreak and regret to legacy and new beginnings. The Ramsey principles—budgeting, debt elimination, financial boundaries, and healthy behaviors—are woven throughout, offering listeners both a roadmap and deep reassurance.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Kamel]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey network in the Fairwinds credit union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by my good pal Rachel Cruz. And we're taking Your calls at 888-820-55225. Rita is in Louisville. Up first. What's going on?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm calling to.

[Rachel Cruze]

I don't.

[Caller]

I just went through a breakup over money and I want to figure out how to heal from it and move forward.

[George Kamel]

Oh, so sorry. How long was the relationship?

[Caller]

A couple of months. We had just gotten engaged.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, what happened?

[Caller]

So my, I guess now ex fiance is like. He is a very like anti debt person, which I agree with. I have a lot of debt. I have a lot of student loan debt and credit card debt, both from taking care. I put everything on hold after my dad died a number of years ago and I was taking care of the family for a long time and my, my siblings were still in school and. And I was. I was 19 when. When that happened and, and just sort of got into a lot of debt afterwards.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And so I have not. It's. So money is like very emotional for me because I, I don't have a good. I don't have a good relationship with it and my family doesn't. And so when it came time to start going through the finances, it just. It didn't go well.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, wow.

[George Kamel]

He.

[Rachel Cruze]

So he panicked. Did he panic around the amount of debt there is or did he panic of your current, you know, your current way of seeing money and how you deal with money currently?

[Caller]

It was. It was over the behavior. The number itself wasn't concerning to him. It was, it was the. It was the behavior and my relationship with it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so he ended it. Was there any. Was there any conversation around, hey, Rita, you know, if I'm gonna. If I'm going to go down this road of marriage, I want us to be on the same page. I want us to be a team. You know, would you. Would you be open and consider handling money differently? Like, did he give you options or was it a pretty, like closed case?

[Caller]

It was. It started off with some options, but it ended up being pretty closed case.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

How old are you?

[Caller]

28.

[George Kamel]

How many serious relationships have you had?

[Caller]

I've been, I've dated seriously for a couple. I don't know, a couple of relationships. I had A five year relationship in college and then three and a half years in my twenties and then in earlier twenties. And then this was the, this was the most recent relationship.

[George Kamel]

Okay. So not your first heartbreak, but this one was the most serious in terms of, hey, we're gonna. This is leading towards marriage. And he's the one kind of thing.

[Caller]

Yeah, very much so. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And what are your current money habits that he was like, I'm out, I can't do this.

[Caller]

He was concerned because. So I have. I moved recently for a job and my family moved with me and I knew because we were selling our house that I was going to have to take sort of a short term hit to move before the household and my family could move out here with me. So he was concerned that after I had, like, even after I had left my house that I had still accrued some debt and the. Oh my gosh. I did. Yeah. I. And. But I have, so I'm, I'm doing the baby steps right now. I'm in baby step two and I have my emergency fund saved and I'm paying down my, my smallest debts right now. So that was that. Yeah. So. So I am making progress, but it, I guess it. Maybe it wasn't enough progress or I don't, I don't really know the flavor now, but it's sort of like my, my worst fear has always been like, I. Because the situation with my family has been really bad for a long time. Financially. I have had a long standing fear that I have no control over my money. And this sort of like brought it back up again.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. He like broke up with the most vulnerable part of you in your fear. Yeah. Did your, why is your, why did your family move with you? What's the, what's going on there?

[Caller]

My. So my, My sister moved. We. My sister and I moved to the same location to get. She got married and then I moved out here for a job and my mom, who is somewhat retired, sold the family house back where we were in our hometown to move out as well because she wanted to be close to her grandkids.

[Rachel Cruze]

Was any of that a red flag for him?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. I'm just trying to place. Because it's interesting to talk to you, Rita, because I'll be very honest with you. You're kind of on the end of. You're the person in the relationship that we usually don't get the call from. We usually get the call probably from the ex fiance who's like, hey, I. I'm engaged. I'm nervous with these money habits, you know what I mean? Like, should I continue?

[George Kamel]

Should I continue?

[Rachel Cruze]

You know what I mean? So to get the person that got broken up with because of the money, we know we don't usually get different. We don't get that side. So I'm trying to in my head, because I want to be on your team, right? I'm like, I want to be able to help you and us help navigate this. I'm just trying to figure out if what he saw was legitimate or if he's too legalistic, you know what I mean? And broke off a great thing too early. I don't know. And I probably won't know in this call, but I'll just.

[George Kamel]

And you may never know. And that's the hard truth is you can replay this a thousand ways, and it's not going to get you any closer to your future. And so that you asked, how do I heal? Well, learn. Learn from what broke and rebuild trust in yourself. And then create the habits and become the person that you want to be, the person who changes your family tree and actually gets out of debt and doesn't use it anymore. And so this just might be one of those fork in the roads where you look back and go, man, that was a pivotal time in my life.

[Rachel Cruze]

So painful.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. And it's not a fun way to learn the lesson. But now you know and you can do better. And so I think a lot of this is your own healing journey of, you know, it's counseling in Jesus. That's what's going to heal you at this point, on top of the good budgeting habits and getting out of debt.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I think what's hard staying true to your plan is money can become such an identity marker in us and it shouldn't be, you know, your money, your money mistakes, your net worth. Like, none of this is who you are as a person. Right. It's a reflection of our behaviors and our habits and all of it. But in our society today, it's become such an identity piece. So I want you to break that apart from you, that the money mistakes that I've made, even the habits I'm in that are not great, it's not who I am. Who I am is something so centered that cannot be shaken. Right. And then that out of that flows a healthy Rita, which hopefully in return has healthy boundaries with money, is able to say no, is able to sacrifice and get out of debt and all of that. So it's so easy. And I can hear from even your story, those Being so married, your identity and money and all of it, it's so closely linked into who you are. And I would work at kind of starting to pull that apart because it's not who you are, your net worth, your money, mistakes. None of that is your identity and who you are.

[George Kamel]

I keep hearing John Deloney in my head saying, you are worth being. Well, you are worth being loved. You're a person who can have a healthy relationship. And a lot of this is detaching from maybe unhealthy family baggage and going, hey, I need to move on with my life. There's been a lot of co dependency that has been toxic and it's time. I need to grow. And so I'm going to send you a copy of Rachel's book, know yourself, know your money. She talks about the different money classrooms and how you grew up. I think it will be a part of your healing journey. So hang on the line. That'll be our gift to you, Rita.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[George Kamel]

Homebuyer Edge and seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in all states or locations. NMLS ID 1591 NMLS consumeraccess.org/housing lender. Nancy is in Wichita. Up next. Nancy, welcome to the Rams show.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[George Kamel]

How can we help today?

[Caller]

Well, I've kind of gotten myself into a situation here. I, I like cars too much. And this summer, this past summer, I, I bought a car. It was just a, a, an emotional decision. Bad Decision. Brand new car and with it a high payment and at the same time trying to pay down about $20,000 worth.

Of credit card debt that I've been.

Just kicking down the road for. For years. Years and years.

[George Kamel]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I never. I'm almost ready to retire.

[George Kamel]

Well, maybe not anymore.

[Caller]

Anymore I am 60.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Single or married?

[Caller]

Single.

[George Kamel]

Okay. So tell us about this vehicle. People want to know. Spill the tea.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know. What kind of cars is Nancy like? She said, I love cars. I'm like, oh, Nancy, what kind of cars?

[Caller]

Oh, it's a. A Bronco Sport. A 25 Bronco Sport. I just fell in love with how it looked and everything and it was a stupid decision. Now I am regretting the payment.

[George Kamel]

What's the balance and what's the payment?

[Caller]

The balance. I owe about a little under 25,000 on it. I'm paying 385amonth.

[George Kamel]

Did you put some serious money down?

[Rachel Cruze]

That's not terrible payment wise.

[Caller]

Not terrible.

[George Kamel]

No.

[Caller]

I had a trade that was.

A Bronco Sport.

Yes. I had another Bronco Sport that I should have stuck with, but I got frustrated with its tech and in a moment of stupidity decided to upgrade to get the better tech. Which, you know, what could you sell it for? Literally. Now I have been able to get as high as an offer as 272 from Carvana.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

I could almost get my money back. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much. How much do you make a year?

[Caller]

75 grand. Gross. Awesome.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, sorry, what's your question?

[Caller]

Question is I recently found a Honda Element, which I really love those cars with like 130,000 miles on it, but.

They'Re super, super, super reliable.

And I found that for about 11. Around 11,000. And it would. When everything's all said and done, I'd be. My payment would go to 198amonth instead of the 385. But you know, then I'd have an older car with no warranty because if I add a warranty to it.

[George Kamel]

Nancy, please don't do any of this. Nancy, we're playing the wrong games.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, you were back in the same game. You're back at your. You're just moving debt to debt. Smaller debt, but you're moving debt to debt. Do you have any money saved, Nancy? Any money at all that you can get to. Any cash?

[Caller]

No.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

No. No cash. No. Everything. I go. Everything all. Everything extra. Every month I just pour into the debt trying to get ahead. How much extra emergency comes along?

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. How much extra are you putting towards your Debt, like if you were to stay current on all the credit cards and the car payment, how much extra would you have a month?

[Caller]

Only like 200.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so that's why it's a chronic debt situation. Because things, life keeps happening and I go backwards on the, on the credit card.

[George Kamel]

Are you bringing home like 4,500amonth? What is your take home pay?

[Caller]

It's because I have some stuff going in, like pre tax stuff going into, going out into a well, paying off another loan. That's another story. But it's almost paid off.

[George Kamel]

You have a 401k loan or something.

[Caller]

It's a, I don't remember what you call it. It's not 401k. 457. Is that, does that sound.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. You took a loan against your retirement plan.

[Caller]

It'll be paid off as of next month, which will free up 350 bucks a month.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so 500. Okay, so here's what I want. Here's what I would do, Nancy, if I woke up in your shoes, I would. Yep. When that gets freed up, you'll have around $500amargin. Okay, I would go.

[Caller]

I'm sorry, could you repeat that?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, you would have around $500 of margin right after this is paid off. That frees up 300. You said you have about 200, 500. I would go and find any kind of work you could do. Even if it's driving Uber and your new Bronco. I don't care. I want you to make an extra thousand dollars a month. Okay, so the, so what's going to happen in two months? In two months you're going to have an extra $3,000. If you can sell this Bronco still at 27,000, you'll have 2,000. That means you have $5,000 cash that I want you to go buy a car. And no more car payments. And no more car payments. And then you're going to be driving. You're awesome. I just looked up cars. I looked up $3,000 cars in Wichita just now on my phone. Lots of options. They really are there. I mean, and one of them was like a 2006 Volvo. I mean, you know what I mean? Like you got to do some inspection, be smart about it. But like you can get a cheap car that will last you for 12 months. That's all we're looking for.

[George Kamel]

This is not your forever car.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, this is a 12 month car. And you tell yourself that. You say, nancy, this is my 12 month car. Because you're going to start Then working to get out of debt. And then once you have your credit card debt paid off, then you're going to be able to have so much freedom and so much margin to save up and buy a nicer car that Nancy wants. But I want you out of car payments, Nancy. This game is not working for you.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, we need a big why here. And you said you wanted to retire. How much do you have in retirement?

[Caller]

Well, I have a pension and I have about 50,000 is all in that 457.

[George Kamel]

How much is your pension going to be?

[Caller]

It's going to be around 4300amonth.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so about what you're making now.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

So let's make this a goal. Let's become completely debt free with a fully funded emergency fund as we enter retirement. That's your goal. And. Which means I am not going to quit working until I have a lot of financial peace and security in my life. And that becomes your why. It sounds like you. You've lived a few lives and so now's the time to go. What is this next chapter of Nancy's life gonna look like? Is it trading in for a different car with a slightly lower payment while I still struggle in my 60s? Or is it, man, I don't have the dream car, but I have the dream retirement. Cause I'm not making payments broke every month.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And Nancy, you really do. I want to encourage you that, you know, to spontaneously go and buy a new car because you got frustrated. There is. You have to acknowledge that in yourself. Right? Like you didn't go on Amazon and buy a new pair of like 12 earrings because you got mad. Or so you know what I mean? You're like, I just want to feel good. I'm gonna like this. This is a big. It's a big deal. You bought a car. You know what I mean? And it's not to shame you.

[Caller]

Really frustrated.

[Rachel Cruze]

You were very Nancy, so she went and got a new car.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

So I want you to acknowledge when those things come up in us. This is. This is a Dave. This is a Dave Ramsey quote for you. I heard this growing up in my house and on the show all the time. But. But that there's a level of maturity that delays gratification. Okay, so you so. So adults.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good. And you're not a child. You're not a child. You are a grown woman who is smart, who's hard working. And I just want you to reframe some of these impulses that you're making. Because it's not just at the car lot, it's probably other places. And really start to get disciplined in this of your life, Nancy. Probably for the first time ever, you know, and it sounds crazy to do something big like this at 60 years old, but people do it every day. People do it every day. So we, if you hold on the line, Christian's gonna pick up and we're gonna give you every dollar, which is our budgeting app. And I want you to be engaged in it. I want you to create a monthly budget, Nancy. I want you to dream and just do some, just do some searching. When you get off the phone with us, just Google $5,000 cars in Wichita and just start to make peace with this new future you have. But because of that 2006 Volvo that you may buy, that frees up hundreds of dollars a month for you.

[George Kamel]

Yep. Here's the three words we need to take out of our vocabulary. I deserve it. I think you deserve financial peace. I think you deserve a great retirement. Which means we need the delayed gratification to say no to the toys, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

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[George Kamel]

May vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. If you've kicked debt to the curb, you deserve to celebrate on the live like no one else cruise. You can hang out with Dave Ramsey. All of us Ramsey personalities. March 14th through the 21st, 2027. We're going to the Western Caribbean, Bahamas, Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Cozumel. It's going to be incredible. We had a great time last time we did it.

[Rachel Cruze]

So fun. This is so fun.

[George Kamel]

It really exceeded my expectations.

[Rachel Cruze]

Me too. And when we posted about it, I had so many comments of like, I didn't know you guys were doing a cruise.

[George Kamel]

Well, now you know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Now you know and you got time.

[George Kamel]

To budget for it. And here's the thing, because we've done this before, we gave early access to those folks and so they're coming.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's over half sold out. I mean, it's like, yeah, it's doing really well.

[George Kamel]

Cabins are limited. This thing will sell out. And right now you can save up to 300 bucks. 300 bucks off when you book by February 7th. All you need right now is a deposit to get your cabin locked in. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramseysolutions.comevents to book your cabin and learn more. All right, Bree is in Indianapolis. Up next, Bree, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. How are you doing?

[George Kamel]

Great. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm hanging in there.

[George Kamel]

What's happening today?

[Caller]

Okay, I've been, I'm trying my best not to get too anxious right now, but I am currently going through a divorce. I've been a stay at home mom for almost 11 years and I'm solely financially dependent on my husband who is the sole provider. He. I literally was just watching the video of Dave Ramsey talking about how it is our money. Like my wife was a stay home mom for how many years and it is our money, it is our house, it is our cars. And I am pretty much in a emotionally abusive and financially abusive relationship at the moment and I'm worried about him trying to financially cut me off. I mean, I already talked to lawyers, I already have a petition going, but like, I don't know if it's just the narcissistic part of him, the sociopathic part of him that he doesn't truly understand that we are one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, and the state and the judge will, will tell him that.

[Caller]

Right. But like, I don't know if his lawyers are truly understanding that. So it's like he, he stay at home mom. I have three kids under nine. I've worked little jobs here and there on the weekends, but nothing that was really substantial. I've worked for mlms from home trying to make a little bit, but nothing has really been much. It's mainly solely me taking care of the kids and he's the one who financially provides. I just need to know what is the best way to legally try to have him understand that I am technically entitled to. Yes. Child support, alimony, 401k and pension.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Caller]

I don't know Any of the. The totals of things he's willing. He's trying to like swindle and gaslight of pretty much saying, yes, I'm giving you the house. You have child support. I won't take the equity of the house, but don't touch my pension. And it's like, I don't want to leave. I don't want to verbally agree to something that I don't have full calculations in front of me before I agree to anything going to truly benefit me and what I'm legally entitled to in the end.

[George Kamel]

Well, the lawyers and the courts will fig all that part out. Okay, so right now it's, it's. How do you just keep yourself protected and safe right now in the interim until this all shakes out? Because as you know, this could be months and months and months and drag out and back and forth. And so right now he's like, and.

[Caller]

I'm not paying your legal fees anymore. And he's pretty much trying to force me into getting a job instead of staying at home with my, Our. Our three year old at the moment.

[George Kamel]

So is he not going to take care of the household and the kids?

[Caller]

I don't. I think it's all threats because he's just frustrated that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is he paying currently anything right now in alimony or child support as you guys are going through the divorce proceedings?

[Caller]

Not right now. No. Currently we're still have a joint.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

Joint checking account.

[George Kamel]

Still living in the same house.

[Caller]

Even have access to that right now because it has to be unlocked through for the app wise. It has to.

[George Kamel]

You can go to the bank. If you're an owner on that account, you have access to it. I don't care what he did on the app.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, go down in person and get. Yes, get what you need because if. Yeah. If your name is on that account, you have as much right to it as he does. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And I would create an account at a different bank.

[Caller]

Consideration how much money like I have saved. Like.

[Rachel Cruze]

And he won't. He won't. Bree. He won't. Listen, listen.

[George Kamel]

He's trying to scare you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. And if there's any. What you said, narcissism, if there's any level of who he is and everything you've described, he sounds like, like a horrible person. You're never going to convince him otherwise. Okay, So I think there is. I mean, and again, this is, this is a bigger working through in your own than me just saying that out loud on a phone call here. But he's never gonna understand. He never Ever, ever will give you the respect that you deserve. He's not giving you that. He never has. It's what it sounds like. It's one of the reasons you're leaving him. Right, Right. So what I would do is didn't.

[Caller]

Want to go to therapy for the relationship, didn't want to go to counseling for drinking, didn't want to talk to a pastor.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Yep. I know. So he signed.

[Caller]

I'm putting my legal fees on a joint credit card. I still have access to the debit, and I'm still able to get groceries and stuff, but, like, he's literally limiting me, saying only spend.

[George Kamel]

How is he paying for his legal fees?

[Caller]

He's paying it on a credit card as well, even though we have somewhat of money in the account.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. So, Bri, you need to sit down with your lawyer, and if your lawyer sucks, you need a new one. But you guys need a. You need to have a plan, and you need to know your legal rights. Every state is different when it comes to divorce law. Okay. So I'm not. We're not experts on that. On each state, you need to know what rights you have. And then you do have to understand, Bri, there will be a point where assets are divided, however they divide, the courts, whatever you decide. And there may be a time and it. And it happens where. This is the. This is the heartbreak of when a life you had built is no longer there, that you may have to get a job. Brie, you may have to sell. He may give you the house and the equity, and you may look at everything and say, this is too stressful. I can't handle the property tax and the HOA fees. You may have to sell the home eventually and downsize to create financial stability for yourself. Okay. So there's going to be probably in your future some really, really hard decisions. That is not how you saw your life going, you know, three years ago. But it's going to. But what you're working towards is a life of peace relationally out of this marriage that's been abusive and creating something for yourself. And so what I want you.

[Caller]

She's also currently living out of state, so the custody will most likely be like, a 90 10.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

To you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Which means you're gonna.

[Caller]

I'm pretty much.

[George Kamel]

Which means you're gonna have a big paycheck coming in.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. You'll be fighting for that alimony and that child support then. Yes. So all of that should be reconciled. And you need to feel good about that. But you need to know, legally, where you stand for you to have some peace. Right. Because I feel like the pieces right now, which I don't blame you. I'd be in complete chaos, too. The pieces are all over.

[Caller]

I'm hiding all of it because I don't. I need to be strong for my kids.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Yeah. Well. Yeah. Yeah. So I. I would, though. I think facts here are going to help you have some peace, to know what rights you have in this. And. And he doesn't get to. I think the biggest fear you have is he's going to just leave in the middle of the night with nothing and you're left with literally nothing. That's not going to happen from a legal aspect. The. The courts will say.

[Caller]

Or just like the fact that I've. I didn't go to college, so I don't have a degree.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I have nothing for my name when it comes to 401k or pension or anything. So it's like guilty taking his money, but it's like he doesn't understand that his money is my money.

[George Kamel]

There's going to be no guilt here. You are entitled to probably half or more of the assets, and so there's no guilt there. You said, well, he provided for the house. Did you not provide for the house the last 11 years?

[Caller]

He doesn't see it that way.

[George Kamel]

It doesn't matter what he. I don't care what he thinks. I'm just telling you, you need to release the baggage of, well, I don't deserve this. Because now it's taking a turn to where you're feeling guilty for things you do you don't need to feel guilty about.

[Caller]

Okay?

[George Kamel]

This is what narcissists do. They gaslight and make you think you were the problem the whole time. You're the crazy one and you're the one that made this all fall apart.

[Caller]

I've given you everything you wanted.

[George Kamel]

This is what they do on the way out. They have no other cards to play, so they just try to drag you down into the muck with them.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

That's all he's doing. So on top of all the lawyer stuff, you know, counseling and therapy is going to help as well.

[Rachel Cruze]

And. And I want you to paint a picture for, like, in the next five years once you have some facts, like, where is Bri going to be even in the next two years? Because again, I don't know what's going to happen, Bri, but there may be a situation where you are a receptionist at a dental office. I'm making this up right for Four days for four days a week. And you're, you know, when and when your 3 year old starts kindergarten, you drop them off at school, you may go to work and you may bring home a paycheck, but you are capable, Bri. You're capable of doing something and earning money if it comes down to that. Okay? So just know that in yourself the things and the tools and the giftings that God's put in you, Bri, is valuable.

[George Kamel]

It is.

[Rachel Cruze]

And so you're gonna survive this. But getting some facts on your side, I think is gonna bring you some peace right now in the midst of all this chaos. But we are so sorry. Call us back if you, if you need more help.

[Caller]

Well, Dave, you know on the show all the time we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used. Unless you got a million dollars, we don't buy new cars. And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular proper maintenance.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved.

[Rachel Cruze]

From South Florida up to Tennessee, that's.

[Caller]

The first thing you're looking for.

[George Kamel]

You need somebody who can take care of your car. So when we found Christian Brothers Automotive.

[Caller]

It was a no brainer and they've been absolutely great.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're excited to recognize Christian Brothers as the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey show. Christian Brothers keeps things simple, honest and transparent. Every repair is backed by their nationwide nice difference warranty. Three years or 36,000 miles, whichever helps you more.

[Caller]

Listen, Dave, I'm first to admit I'm.

[Rachel Cruze]

Not in cars like you are. But the thing about Christian Brothers is.

[George Kamel]

I feel just as confident going in there.

[Caller]

They're not trying to upsell me. I feel 100% confident that I'm going to get the service that I need.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, if you want your car to last and stay on track with the baby steps, trust Christian brothers. Go to cbac.comramsey to find your local shop schedule, service and get an exclusive Ramsey discount. 10% off your visit up to $250.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's cbac.com ramseecstore for details.

[George Kamel]

Donald is in Toronto. Up next. Donald, what's going on?

[Caller]

Hey, how are you guys?

[George Kamel]

Great. What's your question today?

[Caller]

Hey, so just how to get comfortable with using my emergency fund when an emergency has happened? As I recently got to baby step four.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[George Kamel]

Congrats.

[Rachel Cruze]

Nice.

[George Kamel]

How much do you have in the emergency fund?

[Caller]

So I have 15 in there and slight job. Not change recently, but better security recently. So that may be a factor as we go into this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so let's talk about this emergency. Give us the most recent one where you went. I just can't dip into that.

[Caller]

I got hit by a bus yesterday. And goodness gracious.

[George Kamel]

Donald. Donald.

[Rachel Cruze]

Donald, Stop. Stop. Are you being for real right now?

[Caller]

I actually am, yes. I'm not lying to you at all.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm okay. Luckily, the incident was completely fine. And that's why I'm much more focused on the finances at this point. Because it's okay. Everyone's okay. Yeah, I got checked out. I'm all right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh. I got hit by a bus.

[George Kamel]

No one can ever say, wow, man. Feels like I got hit by a bus today. Donald's like.

[Rachel Cruze]

Donald's like, no, I really did.

[George Kamel]

I raise you. Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh. Well, that would be a reason for the emergency fund I think we can all agree on.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so just answer these three questions. Is it urgent? Is it necessary? Is it not expected? I think we can all agree getting hit by a bus is all three of those things. You with me?

[Rachel Cruze]

It's a little unexpected. I think. You check that off? Yes.

[George Kamel]

You didn't plan for it. There was no maintenance you could have done to avoid it, maybe look both ways, but now. Now is. Was there police involved? Like, are they going to cover your ER bills? It was the city bus.

[Caller]

It was a city bus. Unfortunately, due to how old the vehicle is. Like, it's. It's a be because of it. How the insurance claim would.

[George Kamel]

Oh, your car.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're in a car.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Donald, can you lead with that next time, bud? I thought you were walking across the street.

[Caller]

No, that's what I was talking about. The car.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, Donald, you almost gave us a heart attack.

[George Kamel]

No wonder. Okay. Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm glad we thought the same thing.

[George Kamel]

George, you tell me. Hey, I got hit by a bus yesterday. I assume you were walking.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so, Donald, you were in a car. Thank God. Okay, so the car is not. Wait, so go back, Tell us about the car. Car situation.

[Caller]

So, car's old, but it's obviously not workable shape anymore. It's done for. Okay, yes. I expected a car upgrade to come in the Future. I got 4k aside for that, but I obviously now I need to kind of pull the trigger on it much earlier than expected.

[Rachel Cruze]

Gotcha.

[George Kamel]

Is insurance going to write you a check?

[Caller]

I can't really get anything out of the insurance because my, my comprehension. And collision wasn't on. I had enough insurance to be legal. I didn't have the proper insurance to get much out of this because my car is so old. It would basically, they're just going to write it off and then I might get $2,000 out of it if I'm. If I'm lucky again, because I don't have collision. It'd be a lot of fighting with the city. And we all know that's never easy, no matter your municipality.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, sure, sure. Okay. So you're just saying just. It's a wash. It was an old car. I have money saved. How do I use this emergency fund?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. Okay, so what kind of. So you. You are. You're obviously low maintenance when it comes to the type of car because you're. You're currently driving an older car. Right. So how much, how much money do you think you need to have a car? Maybe it's a little bit of an upgrade that'll last you longer. But like, what price range feels right to you.

[Caller]

For safe reliability purposes, Our markets out here, I would say between 8 and 10 is going to get me a car that's between 2015 and 2020 and somewhere between the 60 to 100,000 mile range.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so take the. Yeah, I would take the 4k and then 5k of your emergency fund. Go get a 9000.

[George Kamel]

You know, it still leaves 10 in your emergency fund. And then you begin the process of replenishing the emergency fund. And that's how you feel better about using it. It's not a. This thing is depleted forever. It's all right now I got to rebuild it. That's. But hey, at least it's an inconvenience instead of a crisis. And you're going into debt on a credit card, 25% APR. So that's the move.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

And the truth is, the better you get at this stuff, the less emergencies you're going to have. Like when you're broke, you have everything is an emergency. And as you get to this place, baby step four, you buy a better car, you have nicer stuff that you can maintain better and pay for repairs and all of that. And so I think it's sort of in your head that you're going to have to dip into this emergency fund all the time. I can't tell you the last time I used my emergency fund because at some point you go, oh, we can probably just cash flow that out of next month's budget. It'll be fine.

[Caller]

Yeah. Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So use some of this for it though. So hear us say that. Please, please. Yes.

[Caller]

Use enough to make sure that it's reliable. But don't, don't go good and crazy.

[George Kamel]

Obviously you don't need a $25,000 car because yours got totaled.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So that's what most people do is they go to the dealership and say, I need a brand new car. Because look what happened last time I had a beater car. I got hit and it got total. Yeah.

[Caller]

And that's what like my brother and others have already said to me about like possibly paid in the future, not now. And I'm like, that just doesn't fit my lifestyle. So.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, totally. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So you pay cash?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Take out and then. Yep.

[George Kamel]

How much do you make a year?

[Caller]

60.

[George Kamel]

Awesome. I would work on upgrading that $9,000 car in a year or two. So set a sinking fund and go 500 bucks a month.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. We were trying for $15,000 car and then this obviously made it that I couldn't. I was planning to be able to do it by October of the end of this year, but now here we are where I kind of got to, I guess, finance myself as compared to finance with somebody else.

[George Kamel]

Exactly. You are the bank. And it's zero percent interest with no payments. That's a deal, my friend. Yep. So thank you for the call. I'm glad you're okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm glad that you were in a car.

[George Kamel]

Next time you tell the story, make sure you lead with, hey, a bus hit my car.

[Rachel Cruze]

He probably thinks we're just crazy. He's probably like, duh.

[George Kamel]

I was just. The mental image was just. It was like replaying over and over my mind of what happened to poor Donald. Okay. Glad he's okay. We're gonna get through this. Thanks for the call. Crystal's in Boise. Up next, what's going on? Crystal.

[Caller]

Hi. So as a family, we've been reading toll money makeover and we've been working to implement the principles and just started baby step two. But my question today is regarding term life insurance. So I've had a whole life policy with a term rider for a million dollar since like 2016. Has a monthly premium of $315 a month. And I called Xander, found out that I can get a 20 year term policy for a million dollars for 104amonth.

[George Kamel]

Awesome.

[Caller]

I'm 45. My spouse is 55. Our kids are 16 and 17. So my question is, do I do the 20 year term or should I do less with the kids being older.

[George Kamel]

It'S a good question. You need life insurance until you no longer need life insurance. So think about the kids are grown, house is paid off, retirement's funded, your spouse would be okay without your income. And so if that's 15 years for you guys saying, hey, the house is definitely going to be paid off, we're going to have a serious nest egg. The kids are grown and gone, they're not going to be relying on us. I would say 15 years sounds a lot closer.

[Caller]

Okay. What would be a serious nest egg?

[George Kamel]

I mean, I'm just saying if something were to happen, is your spouse going to be okay? Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

The kids don't need to inherit $5 million to be okay. They're going to be just fine. It's. If something happened, you lost your income. Now we have this policy plus this retirement. Okay. They will be okay if they need to take some time off or not work.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

So I would go 15 based on what you've just told me.

[Rachel Cruze]

I don't have all the pictures, Crystal. You and your husband.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. Because if something, you know, realistically, if you're past that 15 and the house is paid off, there's no debt and you guys have, I don't know, three. I'm just making up a number. 300,000 in retirement and you still wanted to work. You know, you still had the ability to make an income if you needed to. Right. So that factors into it too.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

I'm proud of you. I know that hurts because you've paid into this whole life policy for what, 10 years now?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry. To whoever sold it that to you. Who, who was it? Was it a family friend?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

It always is.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's always how I guess that they are. They are though. Everyone we talk to like, well, my brother in law or my cousin or, you know. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And it's always a dude, let's make that clear. Some dude out of college. 99% went, oh, dude, I got this sick job, I sell insurance.

[Rachel Cruze]

The women do the MLMs.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's true.

[George Kamel]

We all have our toil in life. The guys go insurance, it's cool.

[Caller]

Oh my gosh.

[George Kamel]

Oh my gosh. Well, it's a good reminder to anyone listening out there, if anybody relies on your income, you need term life insurance. Not whole life, not permanent life insurance, term. So that's for a specific amount of time. 15 to 20 years is good for most people, maybe 25 if you know, you're really young or you got young Kids, because the goal is, hey, once this term expires, we are self insured, meaning we don't need this policy anymore. We're going to be okay. And you want to make sure that you get 10 to 12 times your annual income on that death benefit on the that the face value of the policy. So you make 100 grand. You need a million to 1.2 in term coverage so that you can invest that money and the growth of that could help create the income and replace it. That's all insurance is. It's a risk transfer to replace your income. Xander, are the folks that we trust, the people I have mine through, my wife has hers through Xander. You can call them at 800-356-4282 or just jump on xander.com get it done today, Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

[George Kamel]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family.

[George Kamel]

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Dave Ramsey]

To protect yourself, protect Your income, protect your family.

[George Kamel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel, joined by bestselling author and my co host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz. We're taking your calls at Triple A-882-55225. Up next, we head to Charlotte, who is in Columbia, South Carolina. Charlotte, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hi, how are you?

[George Kamel]

We are doing great. How can we help today?

[Caller]

My question is. Well, my husband and I are. We have $100,000 of student loan debt that we just started paying off. And. And my dad had promises that he would help pay this debt off. However, in the last year, we've had to cut time.

[George Kamel]

Sorry, you're breaking up with us? Charlotte, can you speak directly in your phone or try to get to a better spot? I heard your 100,000 student loans. Dad said he would help pay them off and you recently had to cut him off.

[Caller]

Yes, we did. We had to cut ties with him. And so we are now like, the relationship is over.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Got it.

[Caller]

Correct. Yes. So we are now just looking into this debt now for our own to pay off. And my question is, what tips would you have to pay this off quickly? I don't want this to be looming over our heads for longer than it needs to.

[George Kamel]

We agree.

[Rachel Cruze]

What did you get your degrees in?

[Caller]

My husband got a law degree so that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, gosh. Okay, perfect. So is he practicing law right now?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And how much is he making a year?

[Caller]

He is making a little over 100k.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And what are you making a year?

[Caller]

I'm just making a little over 20k. I'm working part time. We just had our first child back in October.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Oh, congratulations.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, great. So, yeah, I mean, the most efficient way to do this, Charlotte, is if you have multiple student loans. Do you. Or is it all one loan?

[Caller]

It's just one loan.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. So it's just gonna be, you know.

[George Kamel]

Taking the mountain, throwing as much as you can every month on top of the minimum payment. Just throwing as much as you guys can. So it's make as much as we can every month.

[Caller]

Month.

[George Kamel]

Spend as little as we can and use that difference, that margin to knock out this debt fast.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because if you guys make 120 a year, if you lived on 60,000, Charlotte, and you guys basically had no lifestyle, you're just like, listen, we are just gonna just live on what we got. And you threw 60 at it. I mean, in a year and a half, you guys will have this paid off.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay.

[George Kamel]

So it's just you got to live like a broke law student and not, like, a lawyer year. And that might be a. I don't know what your lifestyle is like, but that's going to be a big shift.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah. Do you guys have margin every month in your budget?

[Caller]

We definitely could. We could have more. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Make it a goal. Could you, this month, with the next paychecks coming in, throw $4,000 on top of the minimum at the debt?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

You're done in less than two years. I mean, that's the math of it. There's no, like, life hack shortcut. Now if you're doing the debt snowball and you had multiple debts, we'd say attack the little one first, minimums on the rest and create some progress. This is a little bit harder because it's just. You're. It's like paying off a mortgage. You're just staring down this mountain going, all right, I would celebrate the wins every $10,000 you pay off. You guys have a little fun, whatever you decide to do. And that'll keep you motivated along the way. Maybe make it visual. Maybe you have, like, you know, rings and chains across the house or on the fridge. Whatever you guys decide to do. Making it visual, having a deep why. Maybe this child is your deep why of. I want this kid to grow up in a house that doesn't know debt, that has financial stability.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And it probably is. There's probably a painful element, too, right, that it came. You guys are doing this because of a relationship that was fractured. So every. You know what I mean? It's kind of like the sad reminder, too, of having this around of, like, why we have to pay this off. So there is a part two of, like, oh, I just want to add.

[George Kamel]

You don't want it to drag out.

[Rachel Cruze]

Out of my life, you know?

[Caller]

Definitely.

[George Kamel]

Is your husband on board with this?

[Caller]

Yes, he is. We're in the very beginning stages of really talking about it, which I feel. I feel behind because it's been almost a year that we've had to cut ties with my dad. But it really does just kind of feel like the dust has now settled more with that and then with having our son. But so, yeah, I. We're just in the beginning stages of, like, really coming up with a plan.

[Rachel Cruze]

Tell me this, Charlotte. He wasn't. Your dad wasn't paying your husband's debt for law school, though, just yours. Right.

[Caller]

He was going. He never paid any debt. Because when all of this came out with my dad, we had Just like maybe for two weeks input on the payment plan for the debt.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. But was was the expectation he was going to pay your husband's law degree?

[Caller]

He had said he would.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, okay, okay, okay. So it was the whole day. So I was thinking is if he just promised your debt and yours is ten thousand of the hundred thousand. You know, I was going to ask why you didn't address but he. But, but it was said out loud that it would even so this wasn't.

[George Kamel]

On your radar and all of a sudden relationship's broken and now you've got 100,000 sitting in your lap to pay off on top of the grief. And so this is a lot.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, it is sad and it's going.

[George Kamel]

To be, it's going to be tight but you know, less than two years, the baby won't remember it. It'll be a memory for you guys. Remember that time we worked our tails off for two years to get to a place of financial stability. And you will not regret the sacrifice you're making right now, I'll tell you that much.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. Would you take out. We have a high, a highish amount of money and a CD account, that two year CD account. So I don't think we can't touch it it for like another year.

[George Kamel]

But how much is in there?

[Caller]

Yes. We're not like a little over 75,000.

[George Kamel]

Fantastic. Well I would also look at what the penalties are for taking it out before it matures because if you're going to pay more interest in student loans than the penalty is then it's worth cashing out.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

And that gets you out out of debt so much faster.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

What was that money earmarked for?

[Caller]

We didn't really have any sort of plan for other than just to kind of keep it in there. And then maybe once it was done, divvied up more we were probably going to buy another house or like sell the house. We're now buy a little bit bigger house. As our family grew. That money actually was given to us from the death of my grandfather. So it was kind of unexpected. So we really didn't have much of a plan. And then it was like we got that my husband started paying the student loan debt and then everything happened with my dad. So I haven't thought about it that much.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Which gotcha.

[George Kamel]

Well the other part you have to grieve is hey, this was going to be like house upgrade money and now it's paying off debt money which is less exciting.

[Rachel Cruze]

But I would do that in A heartbeat.

[George Kamel]

I would look into that tonight to see what the penalties are depending on.

[Rachel Cruze]

How aggressive you guys want to move up in house. Still look at cutting back some lifestyle and saving up some margin and say okay, if we were to replenish this, you know, you could do that in a year and a half still and get that money back. But I would go ahead and yes, I would.

[George Kamel]

This new plan is we're out of debt six months. By the summer we're debt free.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, I would do that in a heartbeat. And then you guys save your income and decide how quickly you want to save, how slow. But no one else is determining that for you or you guys can see say no, we're good and for the next year we're going to just enjoy our life and yeah, and maybe you.

[George Kamel]

Can quit the part time job.

[Rachel Cruze]

No one's making you do it where a student loan. You have to make this payment.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Life is going to be on your terms soon enough. And so far life has just been happening to you and everything's being unexpected. And I hope soon you can start to get intentional and and happen to your life. Charlotte, we're rooting for you.

[Caller]

Thanks for calling.

[Rachel Cruze]

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[George Kamel]

Scott is in Bowling Green. Up next. Scott, what's going on?

[Caller]

Hey George, Rachel. How are y' all today?

[George Kamel]

We're wonderful. How can we help you?

[Caller]

Hey, I am completely debt free.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, you are. Great job, baby.

[George Kamel]

Step seven paid off house.

[Caller]

Paid off house. Yes, sir.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, everything. Oh my gosh. Well done.

[George Kamel]

I could tell in his voice he had an ease and like, he was kind of flexing.

[Rachel Cruze]

Like, I am debt free.

[George Kamel]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I am 65 years old.

[George Kamel]

Wonderful.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good for you.

[George Kamel]

Okay, what's your question today?

[Caller]

I'm at that point. So, you know. Well, let me go back. I do have to replace some money back into my fully emergency fund or fully funded emergency fund.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Because I pulled that out to pay the house off about $12,000. So.

[Rachel Cruze]

Nice.

[Caller]

Anyways, a little over 12,000. But my fully funded emergency fund is. My goal is 50,000 there. And I've got about 25 into it right now. So I got to put 25 more into it and I'm completely out. So couple things here. My questions are at this point, which I've already got an traditional IRA that has about 214, 215,000 in it. And I've got two mutual funds. It was probably about 36,000 in that. I want to be able to go in to put more money into mutual funds. I think from, you know, the total money makeover, there was something about a high cap, low cap, mid cap, and a foreign cap or a foreign mutual fund.

[George Kamel]

Yep.

[Caller]

And I want to learn more about that. And then also put some, I guess, part of that 50,000 into a high yield interest savings account.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Is that. Are these the smart moves that I need to make? And also I want to look at maybe doing a Roth IRA to kind of balance out the taxable versus the non taxable.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. I would be focused on those retirement accounts right now, you know, taking advantage of those tax advantage accounts first. And so that would be the strategy here. Do you have a 401k through your employer?

[Caller]

No, no. It's something I've done for the past 15 years. You're self employed in the days and. No, I'm not. I work for a company, but we don't have a 401k program.

[George Kamel]

Okay. No retirement program.

[Caller]

I have done that all on my own over the past 15 years.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good for you.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so your options would be then maxing out that IRA every year. What is your. Your income?

[Caller]

Yep, my income is about 100 grand.

[George Kamel]

Fantastic. Okay, so maxing out the IRA is a great start. That'll get you pretty far. And I would keep that emergency fund in a high yield savings account, and you can open one up with our friends at Fairwinds Credit Union online on your phone within minutes and keep that parked there where, you know, I think the rates are currently over 3%. And so you're at least keeping up or beating inflation with that money instead of it sitting at 0% and know you your local bank savings account. So that's a piece of homework. Fairwinds Credit Union, you can go to fairwinds.org Ramsey and they've got a bundle there with an online checking and the high yield savings and no fee on that. And they're, they've been an awesome partner because they have the same goal in mind. They want people to be like Scott, financially free with a paid off house.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

So you've got that. So once you funded the emergency fund, park in the high yield, maxing out the ira, the next move would be a non retirement account if you've run out of retirement options. And so like you said those mutual funds and a taxable brokerage account would be the move and we do say to diversify across four different types. So a mutual fund just is a giant basket of stocks and we're going to even go further by going into a growth and income fund, which that would be kind of your high cap. Then you've got the growth fund which is more the mid aggressive growth which is the lower and then the international fund to balance it out. Because what we've seen, which especially 2000 to 2010 that period the US market took a dive and the international market kind of balanced it out. And so that's what you want to kind of de risk your portfolio.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's kind of the foreign account, right, that you were asking about, Scott? Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Do you work with a financial advisor or have you ever?

[Caller]

I do, I do. I've been working with this guy for about 15 years. That's what kind of got me started on things of doing this. That's why I've been a matter of fact. I was in Sam's the other day and he was walking through Sam's when we got to talking. I told him where I was at and everything. He's like, cool, let's work, let's talk, you know. So awesome.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. You're at a different place now, baby. Step seven is living give like no one else. Build wealth and so you can max out all the accounts. You can, you could, you know, pay cash for real estate if you wanted to do that. The world is your oyster at this point, especially making 100 grand with no.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much is your house worth, Scott?

[Caller]

It's about 325,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, amazing. Well done. Yeah, that's so great.

[George Kamel]

What is your plan for retirement to sort of replace your income and cut your expenses?

[Caller]

Work, just work. I'm gonna work until the good lord says hey look, you can't work no more. Or, or somebody. And I'll just say this pisses me off. And I say no.

[George Kamel]

There we go. So far that hasn't happened. That's good. But yeah, that's, that's the Dave Ramsey strategy is why would I stop working? I like what I do, which is great. And so maxing out those retirement accounts, if you work another 10 years, I mean, that nest egg will just continue to grow with compound growth. And so we are rooting for you to have an awesome retirement.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's one thing I know too is, I mean, I'm, I'm 65 now. 67. I can double dip. So I can go in and, you know, get my regular paycheck and then also get, you know, draw Social Security. And that's just more money that I can stack.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. And the longer you delay it, the more you'll get in that Social Security. So if you don't need it, just, you know, kick it down the road and take it at 70 to, to get the max amount. And so you've got a lot of options here. And you have catch up contributions, which is great because of your age. Age. You can actually put more into those retirement accounts than the average person. Young bucks like me, love it. I needed a win today. I love talking to Scott. That was awesome. John is in Cincinnati. Up next, John, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, George, how you doing?

[George Kamel]

Doing great.

[Caller]

Can you hear me?

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Caller]

Good. So my question is, me and my wife were just hit with a little under $15,000 bill for a car that was repoed that she had signed off on in the previous relationship.

[Rachel Cruze]

She was the co signer and her and her ex didn't pay and got repoed, not dinged her credit.

[George Kamel]

Now the deficit is back to you at 15,000.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's okay. The dilemma is though, we're nine, nine weeks pregnant with our first baby. It's super exciting, but we're unsure how to tackle this, you know, this deficit. We don't know if we throw, you know, some emergency fund at it.

[George Kamel]

How much do you have in savings?

[Caller]

About 10,000 in an emergency fund.

[George Kamel]

Okay, great. And you guys have no other debt?

[Caller]

No, we do. So we. I owe 6,000 on my truck. She has a car that we owe 20 on and then some student loans. So we have a significant amount of debt that we're paying on before the baby. And then we kind of pivoted into saving, you know, trying to stack up some money for the baby.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

We're a Little unsure on what direction to go in right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Well, the good news is you don't need to just keep saving for nine months until the baby's here. You don't need $50,000. I would figure out what your, you know, out of pocket max is going to be on your insurance and your deductible and make sure that you at least have that as your baseline. And then I would move on and hit play on the debt snowball.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

And so smallest to largest balance, and when you get to that fifteen thousand dollar bill, you'll get there.

[Caller]

Got it.

[George Kamel]

And maybe they'll settle at that point. I don't know. If you say, hey, I've got 10,000 lump sum cash or 5,000. Will you take that?

[Caller]

Got it.

[George Kamel]

But you've got how much in suit lump loans?

[Caller]

About 20.

[George Kamel]

Okay. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

A little over 100.

[George Kamel]

Oh, fantastic.

[Rachel Cruze]

Will that change at all after baby? Like, is her income part of that?

[Caller]

It is, yes. She makes about 40. She's a teacher, and I make about 70.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, great. Will she go back to work, do you think, or will she stay home?

[Caller]

We're unsure. Yeah, we're trying to figure that out. That's all a little new to us.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, totally. No, that's great. Yeah. Well, I would definitely keep a big emergency emergency fund in place, considering baby's on the way, so. Yeah, what George said. If you get to a comfortable spot that you feel good and you want to throw some extra cash to get that credit card paid off or I'm okay if you guys pause it and do. Stork mode is what we call it, where you kind of just stay current, but you just keep saving and saving and saving and saving. And then once baby's here, mom is good, everyone's good. Throw all you have at the debt, which means you'll probably knock out. I would say the truck or I'm sorry, the credit cards and the $15,000 bill for sure. And maybe part of that truck. So either way, you guys are doing great.

[George Kamel]

It's gonna feel good to get that behind you. I used to be that guy who bragged about running on no sleep. And then I realized being tired all the time, time is not a flex to show up as the best George camel I can be. I need real rest. And that's why I got Casper Mattresses in my home. The experts at Casper designed their mattresses to help you sleep deeper, cooler, and more comfortably. And they've been top ranked in both the foam and innerspring. Mattress categories by consumer reports. You and your entire family deserve great sleep. So go to Casper.com Ramsey and use code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses and 10% off everything else. That gives you up to 1200 bucks off the Snowmax mattress, which is the exact one I sleep on. That's Casper.com Ramsey Codearamsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz and in in studio this segment we have a very special guest. You know him, you love him. Mr. Ken Coleman.

[Ken Coleman]

It's always good to be here, George. I gotta get my ears in. I, I wasn't quite ready.

[George Kamel]

That's fine. Hey, take your time, Take your time. It's your show, Ken.

[Rachel Cruze]

We're here for you, Ken.

[George Kamel]

Well, here's what we're doing. Here's why we thought Ken should join. We are about to do some 2026 financial predictions.

[Ken Coleman]

I love a good prediction.

[George Kamel]

And we're gonna play this back at the end of 2026 and find out who was right. Cause Rachel's very competitive.

[Rachel Cruze]

That is a, that is fine.

[Ken Coleman]

We are gonna do that.

[Rachel Cruze]

We should, we have to.

[Caller]

Should.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, you guys are in trouble.

[Ken Coleman]

It's going to be two zero. Ken.

[George Kamel]

You now if we're wrong, we're like, you know, the weatherman. It's like it's fine. You get to keep your job. So there's no stakes here. We're just having fun. Don't hold us to this. But here's what we think will happen for your money and in the economy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, I'm going to go first.

[George Kamel]

All right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. I think mortgage rates will continue to slowly go down. Okay.

[George Kamel]

That was a safe prediction.

[Rachel Cruze]

So we started at around 7% and now, now it's sitting around 5.48% on a 15 year fix. What we pulled.

[George Kamel]

That's actually incredible.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's pretty great. People are waiting. I mean that's a, that's a pretty good. So I think we're going to slowly throughout the year keep seeing that crude. I don't think we'll get back to 2 to 3%. But I'm going to see, I'm going to rest in the low fives. High fours.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. The Fed has been moving pretty slowly on this, Ken, with good reason. You can't do it too fast. That'll mess up the economy and you can't do it too slow. And so they're just incrementally, not to.

[Ken Coleman]

Mention their political tension that has gotten fever pitch as in like WWE wrestling match back and forth between President Trump and Jerome Powell. So Powell expected to step down. So new chairman expected in 2026. What will that do?

[Rachel Cruze]

What are you going to do?

[Ken Coleman]

I actually, I don't agree with Rachel on that one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

You think they're going to go up?

[Ken Coleman]

I think they're going to hold.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so you think it's going to be at 5.48% in December of 2026. That's what I'm holding you to.

[George Kamel]

Can't wait for the.

[Ken Coleman]

I think what, what anyone would call a hold. I think it's going to hold.

[George Kamel]

All right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Moving on. Here's mine. Sports betting will continue sabotaging young men's lives.

[Ken Coleman]

You guys are really going out on.

[George Kamel]

The end of again. It's a safe prediction, but we've just been seeing more and more of this stupidest. And as more states legalize sports betting, as more people jump onto these apps and the companies ramp up their marketing.

[Rachel Cruze]

They make so much money.

[George Kamel]

That's right. 2025 Pew Research study found 36% of men under 30 had placed a sports bet within the past year. So it's becoming normalized. It's just socialized gambling. It's, hey, I'm having fun with the buddies. And we're kind of going to see who's going to win the parlay.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Kamel]

And this is a higher rate than any other age group. So these young men under 30 are going to get who don't have money, who are already broke.

[Ken Coleman]

I can tell you, as a father of a high schooler, I hear stories all the time of Chase's buddies.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my God.

[Ken Coleman]

And they're betting on crazy stuff. Like, stuff you wouldn't think. It's not just a.

[George Kamel]

Well, it becomes some kind of fun game of like, is he going to be wearing blue or red today? So what shoes is he going to be wearing?

[Rachel Cruze]

It is so sad. Stupid.

[George Kamel]

It's disheartening.

[Rachel Cruze]

So stupid.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. Mama Rachel with a strong opinion.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's the most unattractive thing.

[Ken Coleman]

It's unattractive.

[Rachel Cruze]

I don't own a home.

[George Kamel]

The, the.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my God, the housing market.

[George Kamel]

You heard it here first.

[Ken Coleman]

Home.

[Rachel Cruze]

But I'm going to go and freaking sports bet because I'm not athletic enough to play the game. So I'm going to have to.

[Ken Coleman]

Can't afford to take my girl out because I've lost a parlay last night.

[Caller]

So.

[Ken Coleman]

I like that.

[Caller]

No.

[George Kamel]

All right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Don't.

[Ken Coleman]

Very good. Strong predict. You guys went really, really safe.

[Rachel Cruze]

I, I think it's so crazy.

[Ken Coleman]

I'M going to step out a little bit. This might not be popular prediction, but let's talk about Airbnbs. All right. Became a very popular real estate venture. As you know, everybody thought, this is my path to prosperity and it's going through a pretty complex shift. In other words, demand still remains pretty strong. But what we're seeing is the cheaper Airbnbs, less cost, smaller, smaller areas is you will see a continual decline, but your luxury listings will go up.

[George Kamel]

Oh, the people who have the money will still be spending, but other people are more price conscious.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. So if you're in the Airbnb game, if you've got a luxury listing, I think you're probably in good shape. The demand will remain strong, which is a small percentage. Small percentage. If you have over leveraged yourself.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Do not think that you're going to eventually rebound in 2026. In other words, if you can sell, I'd sell.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

That's. People just go, well, it's easy money. People are going to be booking this 30 days a year. And there's what's happen.

[Ken Coleman]

The reason that the, the cheaper market, just to give you a why really quick, is because there's oversaturation. Everybody got in the game thinking, oh, I'm going to buy a place down at the beach. So anyway, too saturated, too much supply.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's why, you know, it's the same dude that sports bets, that's also on TikTok. And it's like, I own like eight Airbnbs and I'm so annoying.

[Ken Coleman]

Rachel, you're right.

[George Kamel]

Rachel is exhausted by you, young man.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, Rachel's coming for the bros today. She's got the bros.

[Rachel Cruze]

I feel like y' all need a little shake.

[George Kamel]

I agree.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because you're not cool.

[Ken Coleman]

She probably hates creatine, too.

[Rachel Cruze]

I take creatine. Oh, and my protein shakes when I work out.

[George Kamel]

Good for you.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm glad you, the bros and you.

[George Kamel]

Can agree on one thing at least. All right, here's the next one. I think the stock market will actually stay relatively consistent. We've had a few good years and everyone now goes, there's going to be a crash. It's all coming down and everyone's got their predictions. I think the US economy is strong. I think AI and tech will carry us for the foreseeable future. And if it. When it dips, everyone's going to assume it's a crash. It's going to be just a little low. I think we'll come back up pretty quickly.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're not saying steady throughout the year. You're saying it ends the year pretty much at a, at a level.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. I don't like. We had a few years that were, you know, negative 20% and in the past few years it's been plus 20%, plus 16%. I think we're going to have a positive year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

No Camel crash.

[George Kamel]

No. Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

I think the trend of buy now pay later. So I'll hit, I, I'll get mad at the girls who shop. Okay. Cuz that's sometimes who uses this. I think they're going to become worse and worse and worse for the consumer. Meaning I think there's be to going to be more fees. I think that you're going to be able to loan sack, you know, take multiple, keep moving. They are making so much money. Stores are making so much money. When people take the buy now pay later option they end up spending so much more. So there they see, they see the money. The, the banks and the, and the, and the stores, the retailers and they know I'm going to make so much so they're going to continue to expand that.

[George Kamel]

Can I affirm your prediction?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Pun intended. I just saw a firm is rolling out a rent buy now pay later option so you can put your rent on buy now pay later. That really frightens me. With the amount of money that you're putting on a short term loan, that frightens me. So I think you're right.

[Ken Coleman]

Can I tell you, I want to tell the viewers and the listeners I have never seen the lovely sunny disposition of Rachel Cruz. So cloudy. I could see it across the desk. She's just sour.

[Rachel Cruze]

I was mad.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not because of her her, it's this topic. She's got sports betting buy now payload.

[George Kamel]

She is disgusting. We're pushing all of her buttons.

[Ken Coleman]

I love seeing disgusted Rachel. America needs more of that. Let's get you back on the horn last. Let's talk about the job market.

[Rachel Cruze]

This is the big.

[Ken Coleman]

Everybody's always thinking what's going on job. It's not been great. We saw a slowdown in 2025. Here's my theme. You know me, I got to go with a little phrase.

[George Kamel]

You love a theme.

[Ken Coleman]

I love a phrase. Is it a, is it a 2026 job market will be ready. Low, high, low fire. In other words, you won't see. Now she's laughing.

[Rachel Cruze]

Kelly says oh wow.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what? Kelly doesn't appreciate that this is rooted in accuracy. Low, higher means we're not going to see a hot job Market, it's going to stay pretty stagnant. I think you're going to be in the 4.5%. You may see a spike getting near 5% depending on some situations. We still don't know where all the tariff situations where all those tariffs. How's it going to shake out? We're still in a wait and see mode, which is why a lot of companies are on the sidelines as it relates to hiring. So what I mean by low hire is I don't expect to see companies hiring a lot of people. I think it's going to be a wait and see for 2026. But here's the good news, because companies also in a wait and see, they're going to be reluctant to fire talent. Okay. So it's kind of a. We're okay with who we got and we're going to stay in a holding pattern. So that's what I mean by low hire, low fire. Now a couple quick things. Growth sectors. I think there will be hot sell sectors regardless of low hire, low fire, and that is healthcare. Skilled trades don't sleep on the trades. They're blowing up logistics and some AI adjacent roles.

[George Kamel]

Oh, so it's not replacing jobs, but they're connected to white collar jobs.

[Ken Coleman]

Right now specifically, white collar tech is getting killed because that's where we're seeing already how AI is beginning to kick people.

[Rachel Cruze]

How is it effect? I mean, are you seeing numbers?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You're not seeing a lot. A lot of young people that be in moving into the technology sector as what we would call white collar tech. They're not getting the jobs because those jobs have been replaced by AI and.

[George Kamel]

We'Re seeing private equity come in, buy it, clean house and go.

[Ken Coleman]

We don't know what I like to say about private equity.

[George Kamel]

What's that?

[Ken Coleman]

Private equity equals public misery.

[George Kamel]

This is why we bring Ken on, guys. He brings the heat.

[Rachel Cruze]

Ken is he. He's all about the words. I appreciate it.

[Ken Coleman]

I'll be here for 30 more seconds.

[George Kamel]

Here's the truth. Nobody knows what's going to happen, so just stay the course.

[Ken Coleman]

I do.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Take those predictions to the bank.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, we will come back December of 2020.

[George Kamel]

We will run. God, how competitive you guys are. I was going to put Ken on hold. That's my dream in life, to have a hold button for Ken. Thank you for joining us, Ken. We had a great time. Hope you appreciate our predictions. Control what you can control. It's all you can do. All right, guys, listen, if you have some money goals this year, you want to get control, you're making good money. You got to download the EveryDollar app. It is the way people get control with their money in a very tactical way. And here's a quote from someone who downloaded it. Love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband. That's right. We've got a new spouse feature there. Here's what they continued to say. We've implemented this practice since our wedding day and we've had zero money fights because there is full transparency and we're all on the same page. And you can do this too. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree. You can live like no one else. Go download the EveryDollar Budget app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Amanda is in Toronto. What's going on? Amanda.

[Caller]

Hi.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey.

[Caller]

This is my question. How can my mom and I budget our emergency fund and travel expenses? Given that my father's ICU expenses are climbing, I'd like to still have some leftover for my dad's room. We have. Since not everything is covered by our Canadian healthcare coverage.

[George Kamel]

I'm so sorry. He's still in the icu?

[Caller]

Yes. Basically what happened was that earlier this month, my dad had a stopover flight in Seoul, South Korea, where he had a cardiac arrest and is now in the icu. My mom and I would like to fly over and bring him back to our hometown in Canada once his heart procedure is scheduled. We have travel insurance, but we're not sure what would be covered since my dad's claim is still under review. I've already paid 18,000 Canadian dollars, and the translator said the total cost of the hospital would potentially exceed 47,000 Canadian dollars. But of course, that's just the baseline and it could go up from there. So I'm overwhelmed navigating all of this as an only child.

Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

Gosh. Amanda, how old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 25 years old.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. What is your parents financial situation like? Where your dad and your mom, what they have built as your parents? Where are they at financially?

[Caller]

So my father, he has been on disability for quite some time, so he's unemployed and received disability payments from the government. My mom is the sole president winner. I believe she earns about 65,000 Canadian per year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And they do have a mortgage for the condo that we live in. So that's their financial situation at the moment.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Do they have savings at all?

[Caller]

Yes. I don't have access to my dad's bank account, but from what I know, my mom has $71,000 in an emergency fund.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, good.

[Caller]

$10,000 was borrowed from her home line of credit.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And she borrowed $10,000 from her sister and 5K from my grandmother.

[George Kamel]

Why is she borrowing all this money when she has the money to just pay for it?

[Caller]

I just found out about this after the fact, so I wasn't looped in on it. I think my mom is just, I think maybe panicking given that the hospital keeps calling us every other day asking us to pay a deposit.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. How much is owed right now? What sort of gets you guys by right now? Because the other medical bills, you can get on a payment plan and pay that off over time. But what are they demanding right now?

[Caller]

So they were demanding 17 million Korean won, so I believe that was, I'd say 16 to 7,000. 16,000 or so Canadian dollars.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And is that it? Like, at this point, do you know how much longer he'll be over there before you guys can bring him to Canada?

[Caller]

No, we don't have that information. The doctor said they want his inflammation to go down before they start the procedure. So he's just an observation at the start moment.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wow. Okay.

[George Kamel]

Well, I would make sure to use your dad and mom's money before you're using your own. Is that the case? Are you expected to pay out of your own salary for this?

[Caller]

What my mom and I discussed is that for my own travel expenses, I would be paying for my own.

[George Kamel]

Okay, that's fair.

[Caller]

That's what we have decided.

[George Kamel]

So how much will the travel and.

[Caller]

Oh, so travel all in for this trip?

[George Kamel]

Travel, lodging, transportation, all of that?

[Caller]

About 5,000 just for travel and lodging and.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. So, Amanda, I mean, if I were in your shoes, you know, we would never tell someone to like, go into debt and all of it, but when there's a health crisis, our number one goal is for your dad to be okay. Right. And so what do we have to do to create that? And then we can deal with the money stuff on the back end. Now, we don't want to be irrespons or make bad decisions in the process. We want to have a clear mind about it. But. But yes. I mean, I would be 100% spending five grand to go with my mom to see my dad, who's in a different country, who had a horrible medical situation, get him as healthy as possible. Sounds like the surgery is going to be there. It's going to be. There's going to be a lot. There's going to be a lot. And then getting him back to Canada. Like, those would be my, My priorities. And I would ask, ask, and I don't know how, you know, the communication with the hospital there, but a part of me would be hesitant to start paying something until we know and have some answers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Like there's something. There's a part of me that I would want to get there in person and to know how their. I don't even know how their healthcare works.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. You got to figure out the insurance claim and all of that and make sure that everything's verified and you're not paying for things that didn't happen. So there's a lot of pieces on the back end you can do. And I want to.

[Rachel Cruze]

Before you start writing checks right, though. I mean, I, I would.

[George Kamel]

If they're needing a deposit to. For whatever that might be the one thing to cover today out of mom's savings, leave her debt. Don't allow her to go in any more debt, but just pause on her debt right now until all of this is squared away. We got dad home, we know next steps. She's covered the medical expenses and maybe she pays over time. And whatever's left of her savings she uses to knock out the debts and then she rebuilds the savings. Do you have 5k for the trip saved up or are you going to save up quickly?

[Caller]

Yes, I have 5k for. For the trip saved up.

[George Kamel]

Okay, good. Well, the key is that you are not mixing finances together and they have the money, so you don't need to, you know, give money to your mom. And hey, this is a loan. I would just cover your trip like she said, and let them handle the medical expenses out of their savings and then pay off whatever's. Whatever debt is left when you get. Get back. Do you have any debt personally?

[Caller]

No, I have no. No debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. Amanda, I mean, I, I think George is exactly right that they're. Again, a boundary sounds so harsh in a situation like this, but your parents have $71,000. You know what I mean? Like, that needs to be taken. That. That's the, that's the pool at which you pull from. And it sounds like your parents have had separate finance finances because you can't get. Okay, so. So your mom, I. I mean, is she under the emotional awareness of that this is my husband. And even though it's quote unquote, the my savings, that I'm going to be spending some of this on him. Right. This is. Will she do that?

[Caller]

She will. I think she's a bit, I guess panicky. About it, but she will. Mm.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. Cause that's. I mean, that's it, right? If your husband has a medical situation, you have $71,000. We're not gonna go to my sister to ask for money. She has the money. And so that's. I would not be spending your money right now, Amanda. Now, if all this gets drained and there's something horrible and you feel like as a daughter, you're like, I wanna contribute and help, like that is totally your prerogative. But I would not be paying money out of pocket for any of his medical expenses again right now. Because they have $71,000.

[George Kamel]

Yep. And then it's up figure out, hey, what's going on with dad's financial situation. And we need to make sure that he's able to communicate all this if he's incapacitated. She needs, you know, financial power of attorney and so to use his money, to use his money and access it all if it is not tied to her name. And so there. There's just a lot of other pieces to this. But I would just take it one day at a time. Let's get dad. Well, the money pieces will solve themselves. We just don't need to go further into debt. We need to limit the damage financially eventually and just take the trip, make sure he's good, get him back home and deal with the medical situation. But, man, I'm so sorry.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's a fighting situation. That is so tough. And then being in a foreign country, different language, different health care, translator, I mean, it's difficult. That is. That's a lot. That's a lot, Amanda.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[George Kamel]

Oh, for a 25 year old to be dealing with.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know.

[George Kamel]

Well, we're wishing the best for his health and the financial piece, we will figure out out. And that's why we have an emergency fund that. That turns this crisis into an inconvenience to drain it. But at least we're not in crippling debt coming out of.

[Caller]

The foreign.

[George Kamel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Elizabeth joins us in Columbia, South Carolina. What's going on, Elizabeth?

[Caller]

Hey, how are y' all doing?

[George Kamel]

We're doing great. What's going on with you today?

[Caller]

Well, my father, 87 years old. He's a widow of seven years. He has been seeing a. He's. Excuse me. He's a widower and he's been seeing a widow who's 88 years old. They live about an hour away from all of us here. And he is buying a house at 87 years old with a VA loan. And we're trying not to read into it. We want him to be happy, but I can. This is one of the worst financial decisions that he will be making. He's not married. He has no intention of being married. And does it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Where does he live now? What's his home situation now?

[Caller]

Well, he doesn't live in our town. He's been living with her for. For about six months.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so he doesn't have a home. He doesn't have a home.

[Caller]

He does have a home. She has a home here. He has a home here an hour.

[George Kamel]

Away that he's not living in because he's living with girlfriend.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

Refuses to move to his town.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Does. Is he going to sell his home where you are and pay for the. This home?

[Caller]

I only have a few minutes for this call we could get into.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, I'll eat some popcorn and listen up.

[Caller]

It's you.

Yeah. Very long story short. Well, my younger sister had financial problems and she got recently foreclosed on and moved into his house and didn't tell anybody. And so the last thing he's going to do is kick his daughter out into the street. So.

[Rachel Cruze]

So he's gonna take.

[Caller]

Originally told him we have no problem whatsoever if you sell your house. Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Use that money and buy something down there. We have no problem with that whatsoever. But now that's not going to be the case. And he's still going through with it and he didn't tell anybody and learned about it the hard way. And he promised me face to face that he would tell me if he did anything financially like this because I'm his executor. I' power of attorney. I'm on his account.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And he's. I think she's manipulating him.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, you think the girlfriend is.

[Caller]

I. Why else would he be buying?

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, because he wants to be near. Near his girlfriend. Why? He's. Why. You know what I mean? Who's manipulating. Is the sister living in the house that he needs to sell?

[Caller]

Well, I.

[Rachel Cruze]

Now, now the girlfriend's not going to be on the house. Right. The loan and, and the deed.

[Caller]

I don't know. He won't really. He hasn't really talked about it. Because he hasn't really talked about it. I mean I had to call him out on it when I heard about it and he won't. I don't know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, it's hard.

[Caller]

She doesn't have. She doesn't have the money. She needs his money.

[George Kamel]

How much money does he have?

[Rachel Cruze]

She's living with him. She's got a house.

[Caller]

Well, she's renting and. Yeah, she's renting.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so she need. She has no money. She's broken.

[Caller]

Broke? Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

At 88. She 88?

[Caller]

Yeah. Her husband, I think financially, his health wiped them out. Okay. I mean, I feel horrible for that, but sure.

[Rachel Cruze]

How is she? How is she health wise at 88?

[Caller]

She's got her issues that again, my dad has now become, it seems like a caretaker and.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, shoot. So you do see your dad. You're like, dad, you're 78. You could have another 10, 15 years.

[George Kamel]

Well, he's 80. You say 87.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, he's 87. Oh, I wrote down 78. I'm sorry. Okay, so they're.

[George Kamel]

Oh, man, this is a wild one. Well, here's the deal. It sounds like you've been pretty like combative, accusatory. And he's sort of getting defensive, right?

[Caller]

Well, to a certain degree that this isn't our relationship. And that's why it's so hard.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, it's heartbreaking that he did something that you guys promised, you know, the integrity of the situation of Daniel. You're gonna tell me. And he didn't. That's hurtful. That's hard. Even though he's a grown man, obviously. Obviously. But have you encouraged him?

[Caller]

I'm sorry?

[George Kamel]

Have you just encouraged him? Hey, here's the things that I'm personally worried about. This isn't about me. I'm just worried about you. Here's what's on my mind of keeping finances separate. What happens if the relationship goes south? Making sure that it's only in his name and not her name and not co mingled at this stage of life while they're not married.

[Caller]

Well, hopefully he's at least doing that. He shouldn't be doing this, period.

It's.

Okay. My concern. Yes, my concern. We just want him to be happy. I mean, there's four children. He just. We all just want him to be happy.

[Rachel Cruze]

What is his financial situation, Elizabeth? What's. What does he have? What's his net worth?

[Caller]

Okay, well, he's got his house here, and if he had to sell it outright, I'd say he'd get 400 for it. And he's got about 200 in an IRA.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, what does he owe on his current house?

[Caller]

Nothing.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, he owns it outright?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, and then how much do you know how much the house he's looking at when he's going to pull the VA loan?

[Caller]

425.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, gosh.

[George Kamel]

And that's going to be nothing down.

[Caller]

Correct. Because of the. That's what he keeps saying. The VA doesn't need anything down. I'm like, that's not the point.

[George Kamel]

Well, how is he going to afford a $425,000 mortgage?

[Caller]

I guess between, you know, sharing. Sharing expenses.

[George Kamel]

I mean, you told me she's broke, and it doesn't sound like he's rolling.

[Caller]

Apparently. Well, she's got enough, apparently, to live on for the next five years. And I haven't asked her exactly what that means, but she's got enough to be paying her rent. So I believe that they are sharing some expenses. But my concern is, what if my father passes away and she's living in this house?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, it's under his name.

[George Kamel]

We need a clear statement.

[Rachel Cruze]

She goes back to renting. Right.

[Caller]

Well, you mean, what if live. What if. Let's just say a year after they move in, my father passes away, then what? I mean, you know, I mean, I doubt we're going to be able to boot her out. And if she fails to make the mortgage, then I'm sure he's putting up his current house.

[George Kamel]

I mean, if they're not married at that point and the estate plan is clearly laid out, then you have options. And so that's where I'm saying the best thing you can do right now is say, dad, I can't stop you from doing this, but I need you to slow down and think clearly. And we need to put protections in place because I'm the executor. I'm gonna have to deal with the fallout of all this. Correct. And so I just need to make sure. We're updating wills. We have the correct beneficiaries. We're looking at the whole estate plan so that we all have a clear plan of what's gonna happen when inevitably one of them passes. Cause he's creating a nightmare for the girls that he loves.

[Rachel Cruze]

That. And what are you gonna do about the sister if he passes away in a year? What's your sister gonna do? Because she lives in.

[Caller]

Oh, my.

[George Kamel]

Jeez.

[Rachel Cruze]

She lives in the.

[George Kamel]

Now we have to evict her.

[Rachel Cruze]

It. Of his whole estate is this $400,000 paid off house, and then that's got to be split four ways. So she's not going to buy y' all out. So that's going to be. That needs. These are the Conversations that need to happen before he passes away with the sister and him about and his girlfriend. I do feel like, yeah, I'm with you though as well. How do you kick out a, you know, if this is in two years, a 90 year old woman.

[Caller]

Yeah, exactly.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, I mean you did do.

[George Kamel]

I mean from like I would sit down with an estate attorney as a third party mediator because between you and dad, it's going to get too contentious and just say, hey dad, we have an estate attorney coming by. He's going to look at all this and make sure that we've got our eyes dotted t's crossed before we make any financial decisions so that it doesn't create a nightmare for all of us down the line.

[Rachel Cruze]

But the hard thing is too, George, is that he is a grown, like he can do this.

[George Kamel]

He's a grown man.

[Rachel Cruze]

So you're going to, that's, you can't.

[George Kamel]

Stop people, people from doing dumb things.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

But you can try to slow him down.

[Rachel Cruze]

When an 87 year old has his mindset, I have a feeling, gosh, man.

[George Kamel]

That'S a wild time to fall in love. But hey, you know what? Good for him again. You want him to be happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey print principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[George Kamel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, Rachel. It's time for a question of the day and it comes from why Refi defaulted private student loans? They don't fix themselves, but they can be fixed. Why Refi helps you by refinancing defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget so you can clean up the mess and move forward, forward with a plan. Visit yrefi.comramsey to learn more. That's yrefy.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Rachel Cruze]

Today's question comes from Derek in Vermont. Excuse me. What's the point in marriage? Okay, here, here we go.

[George Kamel]

Starting strong.

[Rachel Cruze]

What's the point of marriage? My girlfriend and I are not religious and we think traditional marriage is an outdated religious ceremony. We don't like the idea of spending money on everything that surrounds all wedding. We thought about doing a marriage at city hall, but we already combined our finances, do our taxes together and call each other husband and wife. So what's the point of getting the official marriage certificate?

[George Kamel]

Okay, well, Derek, a pointed question, but a fair one that, you know, a lot of. There's, there's a generation of people who are kind of going, what's the point in this? Like, why do we need to make it official? We're cohabitating already. We do our thing. It's been going, going well, why move forward in this outdated old timey thing where we have a ceremony, go to the courthouse and get a certificate. What's your take, Rachel?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, well, I would say from like the non emotional, non spiritual side, there's a level of protection with getting legally married From a financial perspective, if you ever have kids in the future. I mean, there is something to be said that, you know, you have a system in place that helps protect both parties. And I do think kind of along those lines, George, again, I don't have stats on this, but I'm like, there is something to be said when you commit something even legally. There's a level of commitment there where, yeah, this, that's like, okay, the wind blows a certain way, kind of not feeling it and one's just out and then you're just stuck with what you got, you know, so that's the more legal, non spiritual side. But I would say for, from a. Gosh, I wish I had Deloney on here because he was talking about, he's.

[George Kamel]

Been studying this stuff.

[Rachel Cruze]

He was talking about the marriage advantage and there's something emotional, psychological, like all of these elements, there's beneficial in every area. Financial, all of it. Yes. When you commit yourself to a partner. So there's something about that.

[George Kamel]

The long term trust and the shared sacrifice, stability for the kids, the financial benefits. Benefits. I mean there's a lot emotional safety. And if you're a person of faith, which, you know, Rachel and I are like marriage is a covenant and we believe it was designed by God. And so there is a reason there of to become one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Totally.

[George Kamel]

And if you don't do that, it's fine. But you're, you're you know, roommates with benefits at that point. And some people make that work. I'm not saying that you can't have a successful relationship. I've just found at some point one of you wants to go to the next level and have that commitment and there becomes resentment and it doesn't work out. We've seen where we've been dating for nine years. But he just doesn't see the point. I'm like, yeah, because you've been cohabitating for nine years. So he's going, why go further with this? I can just, you know, I can have all the benefits without having to have the full commitment. And so there's a lot there. But again, I think the better question for you is, why are you scared of commitment, Derek?

[Rachel Cruze]

Come on, Derek, step it up.

[George Kamel]

There we go.

[Rachel Cruze]

You know, there's the rebel. There's like, there's a rebel in there that people are like, oh, I'm gonna do something totally different. This outdated religious ceremony, you know, so, yeah, I would go to city hall, make it official, be husband and wife. Because you're not.

[George Kamel]

It's not about the ceremony.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, no.

[George Kamel]

If you want to skip that, whatever, fine.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

But it's about building a life together, and I don't think you can fully do that when you're cohabitating.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I don't think from an emotional spirit. Yeah, I don't think that. Yeah, I agree. So, Derek, I don't know if we helped you.

[George Kamel]

We said what we said, Derek.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's how we feel.

[George Kamel]

To each his own. All right, Dustin is in Indianapolis. Up next, Dustin, what's going on?

[Caller]

Hi. Good afternoon, George and Rachel. It's a pleasure to talk to you guys. I just started listening to you not too long ago. And long story short, I want to get much of your guys's advice as I can. I'm about 40k in debt right now. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've been listening to you guys memos, and I want to do something really different, you know, this year with my money. Be honest. I really. I suck at budgets. I just downloaded every dollar yesterday. Just bought total money makeover yesterday as well.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good for you.

[Caller]

I've been very blessed with the opportunity job. Expected to make about 120 to 140k a year starting. Yeah. This month. And I just want to know, how can I attack this, you know, rapidly right now? Guns, Blazer, Rambo. I was on the side Hustle. I started doing Indecent December, so I'm able to squeeze, like an extra 2 to 3k as well a month.

[George Kamel]

Amazing. Break down the debts.

[Caller]

So I have 40k. I have about 15 in the car. I have about 25 in credit cards. 8,000 of it will be paid off the end of March, and then the rest 17 will probably be paid off about May, give or Take.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Good for you.

[Caller]

I want to be able to get emergency fund as well. I hear people talk about that a lot and I'm behind in my 401k. I only have about 10, 15k in that and I want to know how can I max that to catch up from the years.

[George Kamel]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 29 years old. Turn 30 next month.

[George Kamel]

Oh, man. You, Dustin, you got, you got one of the biggest blessings of all, which is time. And that's what you need to build wealth. And you will do that if you follow the principles that we teach. Because guess what? By the end of the year, if you follow this plan, you're out of debt with a fully funded emergency fund with your incredible income.

[Caller]

Yes, sir, Love to hear it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Can I ask, Dustin, what are you doing for a living? Because I think this 120 is new, you said.

[Caller]

Yes, I'm a truck driver. The past couple years the pay has been fluctuating, but I've landed a great job. Luckily here I travel for work. I'm going to be able to travel 2, 3 weeks at a time.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so it's pretty guaranteed, the 120. It's not like if you sell this, you can, you could make it. It's like it's a pretty locked in, like. Okay, I'm going. If I do the work, I'm going to get it. Amazing. Okay, so Dustin, you're incredible. Okay, so George is exactly right. I think all of this can be taken care of. You want to be paying your debts off smallest to largest. So the 17,000 that's going to be left in credit cards, is that multiple credit cards or just one?

[Caller]

Just, Just one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Just one. Okay. So what I would probably do, Dustin, is pay minimum payments on it and then I would actually probably pay off your coffee car, your $15,000 car loan and then go back to that 17. I mean it's a $2,000 difference. It's not like the end of the world.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. The way you're headed, it's going to be so aggressive. It really won't matter all that much. But the momentum you create by using the debt snowball to a T and just smallest balances next. Smallest balances next. Freeing up the payment. If you do that and can, you know, are you bringing home like 9k a month you think with this new.

[Caller]

Gig, give or take about gross, about 10k. About 9, 10k a month.

[George Kamel]

So then if you think about it, could you throw 5,000 at your every month total?

[Caller]

Yes, sir, Possible.

[George Kamel]

That means you are done in like seven months.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

5,500 bucks get you done in little over seven months. And it'll take you three or four months after that to get a fully funded emergency.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. What's your expenses every month, Dustin?

[Caller]

Right now I'd say about 1500. I was blessed to come to stay with some family cuz I'm a truck driver.

[Rachel Cruze]

So. Yeah. So real low expenses in any. You married, kids, anything single?

[Caller]

Single.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay. Because a fully funded emergency fund for you could be more, we say three to six months of expenses. Yours could be on the three month side. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Because you're pretty nimble.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

You have to take care of. I mean you can make it 10k and be done in two months. And so I'm telling you, man, by the end of the year, this thing's over. Just chunk as much as you can at the debt every month, minimum payments on the rest, smallest one, attack it with a vengeance and you'll be done in no time.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. And then once you get your emergency fund, then you can start looking at your retirement that you're asking about and you're gonna have plenty. Can you pull up a calculator, George, for us?

[George Kamel]

Yeah. 15% of 140. That's 20k a year you'd be investing. So think about that. You're investing 1600 bucks a month.

[Rachel Cruze]

And if you put that into an investment calculator, George is going to do it.

[George Kamel]

28. Let's say by 29 you start investing. Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

And we'll give you a year. And he's got 15,000 already in his 401k.

[George Kamel]

15,000. We're going to contribute 1600 bucks. Bucks a month, 10 rate of return.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're ready. Okay, Dustin, are you ready for this big reveal? If you do this, guess how much money. What's the age?

[George Kamel]

20. 29 to age 60. So you can retire at 60 if you want to.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

What.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much do you think would be in your account, Dustin, at 60 if you did this? Just take a guess.

[Caller]

I said about 1.5.

[Rachel Cruze]

You ready for this? For 4.3 million, triple it.

[George Kamel]

Okay, that's not like us making up numbers. That's just if you follow what the stock market has done and you do this for 30 years, you never get a raise. This is the amount you make and you consistently invest, you will have multiple millions.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well done, Dustin.

[George Kamel]

Congratulations.

[Rachel Cruze]

Read total money makeover, do every dollar budget. You're gonna freaking kill it. We are cheering you on.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near [e-mail] agent. That's ramseysolutions.com.

[George Kamel]

Well, tax season is upon us, Rachel. I've got my appointment scheduled. I'm very excited. We're making it a date. My wife and I are going to go get a nice lunch afterwards to celebrate and do your thing. Yep. So if you need help with this, we've got tons of resources, free checklists and guides that will help you file. Just go to ramseysolutions.com taxes and you'll feel a whole lot better about tax season. Maybe you'll even get excited about it like I do.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're so excited.

[George Kamel]

I can't wait to see what I owe. Will I get a refund?

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh. I know.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you use it?

[George Kamel]

Will I get close to zero?

[Rachel Cruze]

I'd say we usually usually owe.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I've owed the past couple years.

[Rachel Cruze]

I go on the other end of the spectrum versus like wanting a refund.

[George Kamel]

You want to hang on to your money versus the government hanging on to it for you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Put it in that fair winds, you know, high yield checking account. Yeah, High yield savings account. I mean, and I like to get.

[George Kamel]

It done because here's the thing, that money doesn't come out of your account until April 15th.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right.

[George Kamel]

So I want to know ahead of time how much I'm going to need to pull from savings to, you know, pay the bill. So don't wait till last minute. Go ahead and at least get your ducks in the in a row here. Ramseysolutions.com taxes. All right, Ashley is in Atlanta. Up next. What's going on? Ashley?

[Caller]

Hey, how are you guys?

[George Kamel]

Great. What's going on with you?

[Caller]

So I bought a car and I don't struggle paying the payment, but I mentally struggle with the payment.

[George Kamel]

Like, are you mad at yourself? You feel like it was a mistake?

[Caller]

Yes, because I drove a paid off car. I, I was doing the total money makeover.

[Rachel Cruze]

You went back to the dark side after.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

What caused that, do you think? I'm curious.

[Caller]

Well, I needed a new car or not a new one. I needed a car and I made the mistake of buying a new one instead of just getting something that I could pay cash for or even less expensive than what I went with. So the.

[George Kamel]

Our car, your heart went ahead of your bank account and went, he wants it now.

[Caller]

I'm like, oh, this is awesome. It's so nice and it's comfortable and it has so many options and yeah, it's so beautiful.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's a brand new car, you know.

[George Kamel]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

You sit in it, smell it, see it, and you're like, wow, it's enticing.

[Caller]

And then now I get in it and smell it and won't r of it because my kids have already destroyed.

[George Kamel]

Yes, that's the problem with cars.

[Rachel Cruze]

What did you get?

[Caller]

I got a 23 Palisade Limited.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, nice.

[George Kamel]

All right, so what do you owe on it and what's the payment?

[Caller]

So. So I owe 37,000 payments. 805amonth.

[George Kamel]

Is that how much a Palisade costs?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Goodness gracious. It thinks very highly of itself.

[Caller]

It does. It really does. So if I keep going with the payment, it's actually going to be $41,000 after interest.

[George Kamel]

Yep.

[Caller]

Yes. So. So I got on Carvana, put in the information, and they offered me whatever it was like a $3,100 difference that I would have to pay them.

[George Kamel]

Got it. So they were offering like 34.

[Caller]

Yeah. So my question is, do I take the $3,100 loss and just know I made a mistake three years ago or do I?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. That's like basically four. Four months of car. Car payments, you know?

[Caller]

Right.

[George Kamel]

So the other option, if you, if it feels like too much to take the hit, you could always go private party. It's going to be a little more work because you have to deal with it and list it and all of that, but you'll probably get 37 or more for it.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Because Carvana needs to make money, so they're going to give you less so that they can then jack it up to 38 and sell it to someone else.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you have any money saved, Ashley?

[Caller]

I do. We have three months emergency, emergency fund.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much is that for you guys?

[Caller]

$20,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, good. Yes. Get rid of this car. If you want to do the work, do it private sale. Yeah, private. Yeah, do it private sale if you can. If you don't want to do the work, you want to take the hit, you can. And then take get girl $6,000 out of your emergency fund and go buy a car.

[Caller]

Well, we already have two other paid off cars like that now. So when I got the car, we needed a Seven passenger vehicle. But, like, our kids have grown up. Some of them have grown up.

[Rachel Cruze]

And how many kids you have? Okay, yeah.

[Caller]

So we have five total.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ken Coleman]

So you can.

[Rachel Cruze]

So you have a car. You have a car sitting there that you could drive.

[Caller]

Great.

[Rachel Cruze]

Ashley, sell this car.

[George Kamel]

Your problems have been solved for you.

[Rachel Cruze]

You've done it. You didn't even need to call us. You have. Yeah. You don't have to do work. It's all right there.

[George Kamel]

How much do you guys make as a household? Oh, you broke up on us.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, wait. Yeah. How much much?

[Caller]

Sorry. Around 140 a year.

[George Kamel]

Amazing. Oh, okay. And what's the total value of all the cars in your life right now? Everything with wheels and motors?

[Caller]

Oh, they're. I mean, they're older. The value, I don't know, probably $20,000. If we sold the other cars.

[George Kamel]

I was gonna say if you love the car and just hate the payment, you could always aggressively pay off the.

[Dave Ramsey]

The car.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, you could. Yes.

[George Kamel]

But that's. That's another version of sacrifice. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you want to sacrifice lifestyle for a few months and throw money at this?

[George Kamel]

Live like you're broke and pay it off in four months, five months?

[Caller]

Yeah, I've considered that too, because we do. I put, I do this, the 10% into our 401k and then I do 20 $100 into our high yield savings account. So, like, it's not that we struggle to pay it. It's just like, I don't know if I want to pay it anymore. Anymore. And. And I didn't know if it was better to just get.

[George Kamel]

It's okay to not struggle to pay it and want to get rid of it. You know, there's a lot of people who take on the payment going, well, I can afford it. It's fine. And then life happens. And so you're kind of getting ahead of this, going, hey, let's. Let's nip this in the bud while it's still fresh.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Kamel]

And eventually you can get your dream car. Just save up and pay cash. You got the savings muscle down that too.

[Rachel Cruze]

Or if you. If you guys want. Want to, you could drain the emergency fund and sacrifice lifestyle for a few months, pay this off, build your emergency fund back up and keep the car if you want. But if every time you get in that car, you're like, oh, I don't know. Yeah, if the regret, it's not worth that. But financially, you guys are in a place you're not. Oh, yeah, you're in a Place that you would be able to. To keep it if you wanted it. You just got to pay it off.

[Caller]

Right. Okay. Just the draining the emergency fund, it kind of makes me panic. Like, it's like, I need that just in case you. Like Dave says, it's not if something happens, it's when something happens. So I need that there when something happens to be able to, like, care for my family.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

There's just a false sense of security. When you owe this lender 40 grand and you have 20 grand sitting on the other side.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right. You're still a negative, negative net worth in that sense. You know what I mean? If you're just looking at those two numbers. So, yes, it's not really real because it's not really there. It's because you have debt.

[George Kamel]

So on paper, it's a net negative here. And so you know what to do. Ashley, you got two options. You guys make. Make enough that this car is not a huge part of your world and income. But there's sacrifice on either side. I got to get rid of this thing. Got to drive this other older car or it would drain the emergency fund and go to town paying this off.

[Rachel Cruze]

And when the kids trash it and you're paying 800amonth towards it, you're just.

[George Kamel]

Like, I realize that as an adult now because I got little ones and dogs and they've just destroyed all of this beautiful furniture and the vehicles and you're just like, stuff is going to get deteriorated.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know, I know. When we bought our minivan in 2020, it was when. Right, right after Charles. Charles was born October of 19. We got the minivan and I said, this is my five year car because I didn't really want it. But I was like, in your head.

[George Kamel]

You could justify it if it was temporary.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, yes. Where I'm like, I just, you know, I want the cool mom car later. But like, for now, with Littles, we'll do the minivan. And George, can I tell you, I. We are five. We are still six years into this minivan and I can't budge. I could not imagine buying a new SUV right now or, you know, a nicer car.

[George Kamel]

Yep.

[Rachel Cruze]

And with it, with my kids, you've.

[George Kamel]

Told me the stories. I mean, Sharpie on the white seats, I'm like, oh, my goodness, the OCD kids.

[Rachel Cruze]

But I mean. And I'm definitely not the mom that's like, no snacks. You know, some moms do that. I'm like, no, eat your goldfish. Like, we are going to. You need to be Happy back there.

[George Kamel]

Starve until you get.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do whatever you need to do back there, you know, to be. Be happy. But then that just creates. I mean, just nasty, nasty, nasty. So, I don't know. A good reminder that minivan, that Odyssey will be in our lives.

[George Kamel]

I also feel like the danger of buying a new car is that becomes your new baseline, mentally, of what you're willing to drive. Because going from a new car, that's a good. So I always. Here's what I've done. I drove, like, an 09, then to a 13, because I was like, if you jump too far, you're done. You're not going back to A. That's 2016.

[Rachel Cruze]

Great point, George.

[George Kamel]

You just feel like you're going back in time. You're like, I'm a pioneer woman here with my. I don't even have CarPlay. What world is this? And so there's a real danger to the lifestyle.

[Rachel Cruze]

She sat in the new car, and she's like, look at all this amazing stuff, right? Her baseline's hot.

[George Kamel]

I've got a heated steering wheel. How did our parents survive without the heated steering wheel? Got to put gloves on.

[Rachel Cruze]

What is this place?

[George Kamel]

Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view, and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New New Year, new goals. We love it. But let's be honest, old you said the exact same thing last January and the January before that. And before you know it, those money goals fizzle out faster than the fleeting flavor of Lacroix. So here's the truth. New year motivation only gets you so far. You need an actual plan. And the good news is, you don't have to figure it out on your own. Everydollar builds a personalized plan based on your goals and your real life, and it actually coaches you to. To stick with it. Plus, the EveryDollar app will help you find extra money hiding in your budget. And trust me, there's always something hiding. The average person finds $3015 in the first 15 minutes. That's basically like giving yourself a raise and a much happier new year. So don't let future you down. Make them proud. Go download the EveryDollar Budget app and start for free. Right. Our scripture of the day, Romans 12, 9. Don't just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good. Elon Musk said, for quality of life, it is better to err on the side of being an optimist and wrong rather than a pessimist. And Right. Did he say that? I don't know. They just give us these quotes, guys. Who knows what's real anymore?

[Rachel Cruze]

Not, not on timing either in life. Let me just say that.

[George Kamel]

That's right. Good call, Rachel. All right, Mary is in Grand Rapids.

[Ken Coleman]

Up next.

[George Kamel]

What's going on? Mary?

[Caller]

Hello. How are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[George Kamel]

What's going on?

[Caller]

My question is, I know that Dave is a proponent of long term care insurance, but I wondered if you ever can get to the point where you're self insured and you don't need it.

[George Kamel]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

I'm 63. I'm still working part time. My husband retired last June. He's 62. He doesn't want to take Social Security yet until he can max it out. And we have about 2.3 in our retirement.

[George Kamel]

Awesome.

[Caller]

So we called Zander as Dave always recommends and we talked to a wonderful lady that spent a lot of time with us and she gave us a quote for like a standard policy from one of the better companies that they work with. And it would cost us about 6,800 a year for long term care insurance. And that would be going up by about 15% every seven years, the premiums and it would cover about 500,000 for both my husband and myself to dip into when, when and if we need it. But the first three months would come out of our, if we did go into like an assisted living or needed long term care help, the first three months are out of pocket. So I'm thinking, thinking by that time, if we needed it, probably the cost would be like 12 to 15,000amonth. And the first three months are not paid for by the insurance plan. So I was kind of shocked at that.

[George Kamel]

It's still going to cost you. That's kind of, it's like a copay there.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Okay, well, you got 2.3 million. And so the question is, would you guys be okay if you need to dip in and pay $500,000?

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, I, I don't know. I just think that $6,800 a year, year seems steep to me and then it's going to increase and I don't know, I just don't know if I feel comfortable paying that much.

[George Kamel]

But then again I would, you will see anywhere for that and at your age. And so it is expensive. There's no, we don't hide, there's no hiding that fact. But the truth is 70% of people turning 65 will need some from it. And you know, the multi year cost can reach six figures. So that's the first fear, is it?

[Rachel Cruze]

But also, remember, every seven years, Mary, your, your money doubles. So you guys will have 5 million right. In seven years in your investments.

[George Kamel]

So you won't need it anymore. So it's not, you're not going to pay this the rest of your life. Or maybe you pay for it for a few years and then decide, you know what?

[Rachel Cruze]

That's what I'm thinking.

[George Kamel]

We're at the point we don't need it, but right now we're still on the fence because it really depends on your expenses in retirement. If you guys are living pretty frugally, 2.3 million will get you very, very far. And so that's the question mark. How much do you guys plan to spend in retirement and how long do you plan to work?

[Caller]

Well, I'm working part time. I figure I'll work 65 so that we can go on the Medicare or whatever and not have to pay health insurance out of pocket.

[George Kamel]

Yep.

[Caller]

Because COBRA is pretty expensive as well.

[George Kamel]

Oh yeah. What about your husband?

[Caller]

He doesn't want to. He's. He, he retired in June. He's 62. He doesn't want to take Social Security until he can max out on it. So I think that.

[George Kamel]

And you guys don't need it. You're not desperate for the cash right now either. Are you guys debt free?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

And what's your household income?

[Caller]

So right now I'm just bringing in about 4,000amonth working part time, and that's.

[George Kamel]

Plenty for you guys.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're bringing in 4,000amonth part time. That's great.

[Caller]

4,000Amonth. I've been having to dip into the investments a little bit because we've had some kind of big chunks of money that we've had to pay out lately. And we took two trips and my daughter's getting married in the summer, so we're giving her some money.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I mean, you've been investing for a long time. It's okay to dip in now that you're in, you know, you're past 60, so there's no penalties or anything like that. So have at it. I would, you know, if you want to sit down with a smartvestor pro to crunch the numbers and projections of where you'll be at and when Social Security will hit and how much your expenses will be. That might give you some confidence on not needing long term care insurance. And I think based on what you've told me, I think you guys would be okay without covering it. But the truth is 6,800 bucks a year out of your income is a lot considering you're only making, you know, four grand a month part time. So. I understand your concern.

[Caller]

I think so, too. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And so it's okay to say we're going to just have to cover that, and you just need to make peace with that too. We might need to dip in a few hundred grand in retirement to cover ourselves, and there might be less that we leave to our kids or grandkids, and that's totally fine. Yeah, but you guys are not.

[Caller]

Our financial people are just pushing us to. To get it. They just think that it's a real good idea.

[George Kamel]

Well, the risk transfer, you know, when you look at it, I'm going to pay six grand a year for the risk transfer of $500,000 that I don't have to pay out myself. So when you look at it that way, it's not a bad buy considering, you know, age. It gets more expensive as you.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, even if you did it for 10 years, that's 60 grand, right? 70 grand for 500,000. So in the long run, and you.

[George Kamel]

Could dip into your retirement to pay it. If you don't feel good paying it out of your income and you'll still be okay, you're not going to deplete the nest egg. And so I think you guys have. Have created a. A healthy financial picture where you may not need it. And if it makes you feel better to have it for a few years, get it. And if not, again, just make peace with the fact that this will be on you. Thanks for the call. Jared is in Cincinnati up next. What's going on, Jared?

[Caller]

Appreciate you taking the call.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. What's your question?

[Caller]

I found myself in a kind of a tug of war situation, being offered a very generous gift with stipulations from my mother, and my. My wife doesn't want to take it.

[George Kamel]

Nothing like a gift with stipulations and.

[Rachel Cruze]

Nothing like a mother, mom and wife situation. What's. What's going on?

[Caller]

Yeah, so. So my mom has offered later in the year to purchase me my dream vehicle. And we are currently new in baby step two. We have our own debt that that money could be used to pay off. So my wife is unhappy with the decision, but the gift can only come in the form of this one particular vehicle.

[Rachel Cruze]

Why? I'm just curious. What's. Is it like a family car or something, or what?

[George Kamel]

No.

[Caller]

No. So the brief backstory. My grandpa was very good, wealthy businessman, and. And he offered this deal to my mom and uncles about a year before he passed away. And he kept telling her, I wish you. I wish I'd done this sooner so I could watch you all enjoy, you know, having your dream.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

So now she's retired and she has the funds to do it. So she started with me and my brothers. My brother was first, and now it' my turn. Okay, but that's.

[George Kamel]

What's the car?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I don't understand. Why. Why is your mom mad? Just because she'd rather have. Just the. I mean, your wife. Because she'd rather have the cash to pay off the debt.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's kind of a. Have a history of these kind of gifts. So the. The car would be a brand new Ford Raptor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

Are we talking like, 100 grand? What is she gonna drop 100%?

[Rachel Cruze]

A lot.

[Caller]

Area? Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much debt do you guys have? Jared, how much debt do you all have?

[Caller]

We have 86,000 in personal debt. We just started knocking this out this year, beginning of January. And I have a plan. I mean, our plan is to have it done in 16 to 18 months.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. How much y' all make a year?

[Caller]

So last year was my wife's first year back working after being a student. Stay at home, mom.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And we grossed 220,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Amazing. Good for you. Okay, Jared, I'm gonna be honest. I don't know. I'm. I'm trying to really. Now, if there's weirdness between your wife and your mom in general, and then this is just another annoying thing that your mom's doing in your wife's opinion. I get that. Okay. So that's one thing. But if someone offered me a new.

[Caller]

Car.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, I think I'd take it.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. The one thing I'm thinking. I think there needs to be a compromise here.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, I think there's more. Is. I think it's more the issue of your mom. Of your mom and your wife's relationship. It's not the. It's not.

[George Kamel]

There's a pattern of her stepping in and maybe crossing a boundary line into your marriage and finances that I think your wife is uncomfortable with.

[Caller]

Just.

Just.

Yeah, in a way. My wife did. You know, she. This is our first time having money. Her first time having money. I grew up with my mom doing stuff like this, so.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

This is her first time having money and her first time earning her own money. We've got our plans and goals, and she. She's thinking, you know, mom could snap her fingers and pay our debt off. But that's not.

[George Kamel]

No.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, I. That's Yeah, I'm not. I'm kind of. I'm kind of almost worried that we're.

[Caller]

Gonna look in the.

[George Kamel]

She doesn't get to control what the gift is.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right.

[George Kamel]

The thing to think about is, can you afford the higher insurance, the maintenance while you guys are in this debt? And so if you can go, hey, mom, wait until we're debt free and then give us the car, I think that's a great compromise. That puts the sour in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.