My Fiancé Won't Give Me Access To Any Of Our Money

Summary

The Ramsey Show: "My Fiancé Won't Give Me Access To Any Of Our Money"

Episode Date: February 19, 2026
Hosts: George Kamel, Rachel Cruze, (with appearances by Dave Ramsey)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show focuses on listeners' real-world financial questions, struggles, and relationship dilemmas—particularly a concerning case of financial control within a relationship. Hosts George Kamel and Rachel Cruze (with cameo commentary from Dave Ramsey) deliver honest, at times urgent advice about budgets, debt, marital and partner financial unity, and the critical need for individual agency and healthy boundaries in shared finances.

The main theme centers on regaining financial control in complicated relationships, identifying financial abuse, the importance of shared decision-making within families, and practical steps for overcoming debt and poor money management.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Financial Control & Abuse in Relationships

[00:39–09:01]

• Caller Jennifer from Colorado Springs shares her struggle as a stay-at-home mom with no access to shared money; her fiancé refuses to let her access any financial accounts, only giving her allowance on request.
• Hosts’ Reaction: Both George and Rachel are alarmed—labeling it “financial abuse.”
  • George: “This is financial abuse. There’s no other way to say it.” (02:49)
  • Rachel: “You’re basically a child to him is how he’s functioning in the relationship.” (02:56)
• Jennifer reveals: Even attempts to earn her own money are discouraged or would require her to completely cover childcare alone—further displaying control dynamics.
• Advice Given:
  • Recognize this as more than just a money issue—there are deeper relationship concerns.
  • Jennifer is urged to open her own bank account, build a support network, consult state laws regarding common law marriage and entitlements, and plan an exit strategy if no behavioral change occurs.
  • Rachel: “What do you want life to look like in the next two years, five years, ten years?” (03:55)
  • George: “You need to set up your own checking account and have a plan to get out of this relationship.” (05:34)
  • Both hosts affirm: You are not a burden for seeking help.

2. Tackling Overwhelming Debt

[10:54–20:41]

• Caller CJ from Phoenix describes six-figure debt (credit cards, car loan, student loans), a mortgage that eats half their income, and a new baby at home.
  • Rachel and George walk through debt snowball methods, focus on increasing income, and reducing expenses to regain financial balance quickly.
  • Rachel: “You must have a sense of urgency to get the income up. Do whatever it takes.” (18:27)
  • Moving may be necessary if the mortgage (at 50% of income) cannot be rebalanced.

3. Navigating Insurance Mistakes and Young Adult Financial Choices

[22:01–28:28]

• Joseph (age 22) has regretted buying a whole life insurance policy at 19; he’s unsure how to exit.
• Clear advice: Surrender the bad policy, get term life insurance only if/when you have dependents, and invest separately for retirement.
  • George: “You don’t need life insurance unless someone is depending on your income.” (25:10)
  • Rachel: Whole life is “a horrible product … almost everyone in the financial space knows that except for people who sell it.” (28:07)

4. Car Troubles & Smart Replacement

[28:44–32:19]

• Brody weighs whether to repair or dump a car with more repairs needed than its value; hosts recommend a careful second opinion but, if needed, selling for scrap and paying cash for a reliable used car.

5. Job Change Amid Student Loan Payback

[33:15–36:48]

• Pam faces a big salary job offer but owes her current employer for paid student loans if she leaves.
  • Suggestions include negotiating a sign-on bonus or delayed start to bridge the financial gap.

6. Cost-of-Living Moves and Solo Homeownership

[37:21–41:54]

• Sam wants to buy a home in LA but is considering moving to Vegas for affordability; hosts discuss rent vs. buy math and lifestyle values.

7. Financial Infidelity in Marriage

[44:16–52:18]

• Sarah from Orlando discovers her husband has lied for years about major sums ($70,000+, secret spending, hiding money).
• Rachel and George bluntly address the connection between chronic money deception and overall marital trust—calling for marriage counseling, shared banking, total transparency, and clear boundaries.
  • Rachel: “You’re not being led by a godly man… he’s a selfish child buying a freaking guitar.” (48:32)
  • “When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” (51:49, George)

8. Car Buying the Right Way

[54:12–58:03]

• Hope and husband, in trades and debt-free, want to buy a Tesla. Guidance: If you pay cash, keep car value under 50% of income, you’re fine.
• Rachel: “I love when we get to say yes!” (57:59)

9. Small Business & Side Income Tax Planning

[58:21–63:17]

• Courtney in D.C. juggles W2 and 1099 income, wonders about retirement contributions and business structure.
  • Simple advice: Keep it a sole proprietorship for now, max out tax-advantaged retirement accounts, only form an LLC if liability issues or larger scale arise, consult a CPA as it grows.

10. Mortgage Payment Struggles & Split Finances in Marriage

[85:55–94:18]

• Kevin in Atlanta is four months behind on a mortgage due to job loss and his wife’s refusal to contribute or join finances.
  • Host advice: Demand unity, visibility, and urgency for the sake of the family.
  • “This is stupid to lose the house over being ununified.” (93:38, George)

11. Estate Planning for Children with Problems

[95:07–99:51]

• Ann in Chicago wants to ensure her irresponsible adult son only gets his inheritance if he meets conditions (sobriety, debt-free, etc.)
  • Advice: Use a trust with a neutral trustee, communicate conditions to kids while alive.

12. Other Notable Callers

• Callers asked about upgrading homes, “tough love” budget questions, business partnership frictions, and practicalities for recent widows handling inheritance money and mortgages.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Financial Abuse Recognized:
  • George: “At least the babysitter gets paid without having to ask. This is the crazy part that he’s made you think this is normal… This is financial abuse.” (03:17, 02:49)
• On Leaving a Controlling Partner:
  • Rachel: “If you woke up in your shoes—I’d be thinking of how to get out.” (04:31)
• On Trust and Money in Marriage:
  • Rachel: “You’re not being spiritually led. You’re not, though. He took $70,000 and lied about it… He needs to step up and be a man.” (48:32–49:10)
• Financial Unity vs. Visibility:
  • George: “It’s less about visibility, it’s more about unity.” (90:58)
• On Debt Struggle:
  • George: “You need a massive six-figure income to pay this off in a reasonable time.” (18:27)
• On Inheritance and Estate Planning:
  • Rachel: “Be as clear as you can be [in trust conditions]… don’t make one sibling the trustee—it can ruin relationships.” (97:06)
• On Big Purchases (Teslas):
  • Rachel: “I love when we get to say yes!” (57:59)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 0:39–9:01 | Jennifer: Financial abuse & lack of access in relationship
• 10:54–20:41 | CJ: Drowning in debt and mortgage crisis
• 22:01–28:28 | Joseph: Whole life insurance regret
• 28:44–32:19 | Brody: Car repair vs. sell
• 33:15–36:48 | Pam: Job transition & student loan payback to employer
• 37:21–41:54 | Sam: Considering leaving LA for affordable homeownership
• 44:16–52:18 | Sarah: Marriage, lying, and money trust
• 54:12–58:03 | Hope: Can we buy a Tesla?
• 58:21–63:17 | Courtney: W2, 1099, and retirement contributions
• 85:55–94:18 | Kevin: Marriage splits and mortgage default risk
• 95:07–99:51 | Ann: Inheritance planning for a troubled child

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Tone & Takeaways

The tone is direct, empathetic, and at times urgent—emphasizing personal agency, trust, and the need for radical change where dysfunction or abuse is present. Rachel and George balance tough love (especially about relationship deception and debt) with encouragement and practical bite-sized advice.

Listeners are left with the unmistakable message: You get to choose agency over your money and life. Healthy relationships require trust, unity, and transparency. Don’t let poor financial decisions—yours or a loved one’s—drive your future.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Kamel]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Fairwinds Credit Union studio in the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show. We are here to help you. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz. I'm George Camel. Open phone lines at 888820 5225. Jennifer is going to kick us off in Colorado Springs. What's going on? Jennifer? Hi.

[Caller]

I was calling because I wanted to know how I can save money or make money as a stay at home mom who has no access to money. My fiance is the one that is in charge of all the financial aspects of our lives and anytime I need any type of money, I have to ask for it. So that's my question. How can I make or save money without any other form of accessing money?

[George Kamel]

I don't think that is the solution to this problem and you know that too. This is a band aid that you have to go make money as a stay at home mother because he doesn't give you any access. How long has this been going on?

[Caller]

It's always been on and off since I became a stay at home mom six years ago.

[George Kamel]

Six years?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Goodness gracious. Okay, when you say he controls the finances, you have no access to the bank accounts?

[Caller]

No, not.

None whatsoever. If I need money for groceries, for the kids, for myself, then I have to ask for it and it has to be the exact amount that I'm spending.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And Jennifer, I'm sure throughout six years you have asked him for access, correct?

[Caller]

Yeah, I've asked him for money for access and I've asked him for.

[Rachel Cruze]

What does he say when he, when you're like, hey, I need access to our checking, I need a debit card. I need, I need to be able to, to live. What does he say?

[Caller]

It's 100%. No. If I want he can give me some sort of allowance, but 100% no access to his account.

[Rachel Cruze]

What's causing you to stay in this relationship besides the obvious? You guys have kids together and everything, but what has caused you to be in functioning like this for six years?

[Caller]

Honestly, I'm not too sure.

[George Kamel]

You'd be better off getting alimony and child support. At least that's forced through the courts and you can do what you want with the money without having an adult chaperone.

[Caller]

I've heard that before. I've been told that before.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So Jennifer, you're in a Pretty toxic relationship that probably goes beyond money.

[George Kamel]

This is financial abuse.

[Caller]

Is it?

[George Kamel]

There's no other way to say it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're two adults that are in basically a marriage. You're not legally married, but you have kids together. You've been together for six years. One of you is a stay at home parent and you don't have. There's no shared equity in the household he doesn't trust. You're basically a child to him is how he's functioning in the relationship.

[George Kamel]

And so at least the babysitter gets paid without having to ask. This is the crazy part that he's made you think this is normal and it's okay. And it's just. Well, this is just the way he is. He's a little controlling sometimes.

[Caller]

And then his thing is like me asking is like me telling him. But it doesn't feel that way, you know, so.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, it doesn't feel that way because that's not true. So I want to know from you, Jennifer, what's causing you to stay with this man?

[Caller]

I'm not too sure. I think maybe the children, if I'm being completely honest.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it's a bigger question for you, Jennifer, on what do you want life to look like in the next two years, five years, ten years for you? And that's a really, really scary question, I think, always. Because what the answer is. What I think, you know what the answer is, is going to mean a lot of hard and new change in your life. And so if I were you, how old are your kids?

[Caller]

Six, four and one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, gosh. Okay. Okay. If I were. If I woke up in your shoes, yes, you're gonna need money to be able to get out. And. And so I would start looking probably today, when here's the horrible thing is, is if he finds out, what's he gonna say? Does he tell you to go get a job? Is he like, you need to go make your own money? Or would he. What would his response be for you having a job?

[Caller]

Oh, no, no.

No hesitation. He says, if you want to get a job, go ahead. That's. I. It doesn't bother me. The only thing is you'd have to pay for childcare because you're the one that wants the job.

[George Kamel]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So you have to get a job and pay for childcare on your own because that was your decision. This man is insane. Do you hear yourself?

[Caller]

I do.

[George Kamel]

Does he abuse you just verbally and emotionally, or is there more?

[Caller]

No, there isn't.

More.

[George Kamel]

Well, there's enough where that came from.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, so, yeah. You're gonna. I. I would be finding a way to make money. Jennifer. You need to set up your own checking account and you need to have a plan on what does this look like to get out of this relationship. And depending on the state, there's some type of common law marriage, you know, depending on. And I think it's state by state. But even if you decided to leave in some states, I don't know, Colorado's laws that you actually. It could be seen as a. Basically a common law marriage.

[George Kamel]

You'd be entitled to assets.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. That you could actually go through proceedings and, and get something right. If you guys have a house together, cars, checking account, retirement accounts, all of it. So I would look into that kind of thing if leaving. Which is what either this needs to be fixed on a radical level, which you can't fix him. But either the relationship has to have a complete 180, a full repentance and him pleading for your forgiveness because of what he's done to you. Horrible. It's horrible. Or you're gonna have to make a better decision for yourself, Jennifer. You know.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, yeah, I would be opening up my own checking account. If there's a way to work from home for a little bit and get an income in and create some stability and then whatever that next move is for you, at least that gives you a pad to step out on so you're not just drowning with no money. Right. Having some resources is gonna be helpful.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Do you have any friends, family, church that could help support you through this?

[Caller]

I do, but it's something I don't wish to burden on them.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, it's not a burden.

[George Kamel]

You're not a burden if they love you. They will be so happy that you asked for help in your time of need.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. This would be the time to get as many resources as possible around you, Jennifer.

[George Kamel]

And you believe lies too long, that you are a burden that no one else has to deal with this. It's just my burden to bear. And it's all lies that he's put in your mind.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And you believe them for so long that you don't know another way. You don't know another life. But I think you deserve better, don't you?

[Caller]

I totally do. I totally think I deserve better. And I think that's another reason why I haven't stepped out, is because I will literally walk out with what I have on my back.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And that's where friends, family and Community really step up too.

[Caller]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

So I would be. Yep. Leaning into those conversations and I would, I would start thinking of who you want to be. Jennifer. I mean, honestly, when you look at just the world and the. Which you can contribute from a career perspective is gonna be huge. And Ken's book, Find the Work youk're Wired to do. We're gonna give you a copy of that just to get your mind those wheels start to turn. Cause if you have not been in the workforce for, you know, an extended period of time, sometimes you forget of like, okay, what do I enjoy? What am I passionate about? How can I help? But that's a really big answer to a really urgent problem, though. So hear the urgency in us that this relationship is pretty damaged and you don't need part of it if it continues down the road like this.

[George Kamel]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. It's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work, so it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan, whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

[George Kamel]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family.

[George Kamel]

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[George Kamel]

CJ's in Phoenix. Up next. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. CJ, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, how y' all doing? I thank you for hosting me. I wanted to get your input and ways to get out of my debt with the credit cards, student loans and a car loan and my house payments. I think when I first got the house I was making a certain amount of money and I thought it was a good idea to get this two story house. But per paycheck it's been the house payments. What I paid to escrow is a whole check and so it's half your income. Have my income? Yes sir.

[George Kamel]

Your take home pay.

[Caller]

Okay, my take home.

[George Kamel]

What do you make?

[Caller]

I make before taxes about 103,000.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Are you single, married?

[George Kamel]

Married. Okay. Is your spouse working outside of the home or at home?

[Caller]

She, we just, she just had a baby so she's not working currently.

[George Kamel]

Congrats, that's exciting.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[George Kamel]

Okay, what's your total debt?

[Caller]

My total debt with the house payments, I want to say not including the mortgage.

[George Kamel]

Just give us the consumer mortgage. You said car loan, credit card, student loans, about 110,000. How much is the car loan?

[Caller]

The car loan is only 5,000. The bigger one is the credit cards. And the student loans, what are those

[Rachel Cruze]

break out to be? How much of the student loans?

[Caller]

The student loan is about 40,000 on the government one and 5,000 on Texas loan. I don't, I think that's the private one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And the credit card comes out to be altogether about 60,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

60,000. How many credit cards do you have it?

[Caller]

Five. Between five. It's the 60,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay,

[George Kamel]

well what did the 60K get spent on in the credit cards and like over what period of time was this?

[Caller]

It's been over the last, I want to say about year and a half where once I got the, the clinical coordinator position. Not that the pay. I came home as a full time nurse and to get this position and I was doing a travel assignment so I was getting pays more. So that's how I thought in my mind that I was just going to stay together. I mean for a good amount of time traveling. But then we had our first kid and I was you know, off of home.

[George Kamel]

So your income went down but your spending stayed high. The lifestyle creep never went away and so you were just spending on the cards.

[Caller]

So the house payment was taken, you know the one payment. And to you know, speak directly in your phone.

[George Kamel]

Zj, we're having A hard time hearing you.

[Caller]

Oh, sorry.

[George Kamel]

Okay. The.

[Caller]

So once the house pay. Once I came full time and the house payment was half of what? You know, half of one. One take, one check per month. That's when I was, you know, I'll put it on the card and hopefully I'll, you know, be able to pay it. And it would just.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, you're putting the mortgage on the card?

[Caller]

Not the mortgage. It was just everything else.

[Rachel Cruze]

Everything are okay?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, because you spent one full paycheck on the mortgage and then anything else lifestyle just went on the card.

[Caller]

Yes, ma'.

[Dave Ramsey]

Am.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Are you and your wife ready to have a very different life?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. We talked about it, and we always listen to the show and we always just talk about we need to do better. And then with the credit cards, most of them are through to Chase bank. And I did call to tell them that I can't pay anymore. So they put me on. On the plan. But even with that is about just. Chase alone is about 1200 that I'm paying okay with.

[Rachel Cruze]

With everything. C.J. with where you're paid twice a month, with the mortgage, the credit card bills, your regular utilities. I mean, everything. I'm assuming you're coming up short every month if you stayed current with all of your debt.

[Caller]

I do come short. I did pick up this year. I did pick up a home health job, which usually it's about 4 or $500 more per month. And that gives me the ability, like that, 500 to.

[Rachel Cruze]

What you need to say to keep your head above water. But that's it, though. There's nothing extra to be throwing at this debt to get out of it. It's just. That's just to pay the minimum payments.

[Caller]

Yes, ma'.

[George Kamel]

Am. That.

[Caller]

That's just month to month. And, you know, it's.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. How many hours are you doing that extra job?

[Caller]

That's per patient.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

Right now it's. I have about three, four patients. Sometimes I'll tell them my days off and they'll try to give me, you know, PRN jobs to just go see a patient, but they don't come often. It's just.

[George Kamel]

It's not reliable.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So, I mean, that's a good thing to have because I feel like it pays well. But I would have another side hustle because. Yes, C.J. it's something. It's. It's gotta shift from the income perspective. I think you guys need to cut your lifestyle if you haven't already.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. No eating out, not. No investing, no saving. All we're doing is trying to pay down the smallest debt. So take that smallest credit card that you have and we're gonna knock that out. Or if it's the car loan that's the smallest debt or the student loan, we're knocking that balance out first and make minimums on the rest. So we're gonna try to stay current on all the bills and throw extra at the smallest debt we have. That's called the debt snowball method which

[Rachel Cruze]

will either be that $5,000 private student loan or your $5,000 car. Or if there's a credit card smaller than 5,000, you're going to attack that first.

[George Kamel]

Okay, is there anything you could sell to come up with some cash to speed this up?

[Caller]

Everything else we, I've looked and it would just be just minimal stuff, shoes. But you know, it's.

[George Kamel]

What is the car worth? You said you owe five on it. What is it worth?

[Caller]

It's worth about 3,000g. But the miles it I have, I think right now it's about 155,000 miles on it.

[Rachel Cruze]

So how long ago did your wife have the baby?

[Caller]

A couple of months ago.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. You know, I would have a goal for you guys because again, $500 a month shifts, you know, you guys, it's so helpful. So I'm thinking for her what could she do from home to make 500 bucks a month and that could include selling stuff. She could make a part time job of selling your shoes. C.J. making some money, you know, but for real, like what, what, what can she do? And she doesn't have to start today, but maybe you guys look up and say okay, you're going to start working CJ extra, you're cutting lifestyle. And then we're going to look up and I'm not making this up, June, she's going to start doing something through the end of the year bringing home an extra five to a thousand. 500 to $1,000. Like I think as much income as you guys can get in, rolling in, which is going to be exhausting. It's going to be so hard, it's so frustrating. But that's going to make you guys get out of debt that much faster because it fun right during this process of sacrifice. But you guys either have to do it really intensely and just go all in or you kind of just dabble around the edges and you guys will keep it around for another four to five years.

[George Kamel]

Because here's the truth. If we can, if we continue at this pace and you can only throw 100 or 200 bucks of this debt, you're going to be in debt for the rest of your life. And so that's why we're saying six figure debt. You need a massive six figure income to pay this off in a reasonable amount of time. Two, three, four years. That's the goal here of intense sacrifice. Not 20 years of just trying to make our way through and make the minimum payments while the interest racks up. So that's why we want you to have a sense of urgency to get this income up. And you've got a lot of skills that are very valuable. And so if you can go make 150 grand, 200 grand, and she makes another 50 grand, even if the kids are in daycare for a season, they will survive. The goal is for you guys to get above water here, okay?

[Caller]

So getting our income up, that's the key.

[George Kamel]

Getting expenses down as much as we can. But even then, your income has to go up in order to knock this out quickly.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Kamel]

So hang on the line, C.J. i'm gonna send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, along with every dollar. That's our budgeting tool. And you and your wife tonight, you're gonna lay out, here's our next paychecks, here's all of our expenses. Here's our plan to make the most of every dollar.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, and we always caution against moving. I mean, honestly. Cause it's such a big expense. It's, it's like one of the biggest things to uproot your family out of a home. But I would consider it's half of your income. And unless your main job, you're going to see significant raises in the next one to three years. If there's not, and it's looking pretty plateau. I mean, golly, that's an extra $2,000. If you get it under that to that 24, that 25%, that's an extra two grand a month that you're, you know, that you could save if you guys changed your housing situation, which I know is, that's a big ask, but

[George Kamel]

it changes the whole timeline. You guys can become homeowners again once we're not broke. But right now, that 50% mortgage, it's eating your lunch and hurting your ability to pay down the debt. So hang on the line, C.J. we're gonna get you those resources. We wish you guys the best. With this debt payoff,

[Rachel Cruze]

If you're looking for a more budget friendly way to save on medical costs and stay true to your values, Christian Healthcare Ministries is a great option to think about. CHM is not health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry, a biblical community based way for Christians to share each other's medical bills. That means no enrollment deadlines and and you can choose any doctor or hospital you want. That kind of freedom is big, especially if you're self employed between jobs or you just need something that fits your budget better. CHM has been around for decades, faithfully serving the Christian community. And many members save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional health insurance. And that margin gives you breathing room when you're working the baby steps and trying to steward your money well. And right now, CHM is offering new members a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Get [e-mail] budget and use promo code RAMSEY. That's chministries.org budget and promo code Ramsey.

[George Kamel]

Up next, we've got Joseph in El Paso, Texas. What's going on, Joseph?

[Caller]

Hi, how's it going?

[George Kamel]

Great. How can Rachel and I help today?

[Caller]

Hi. So I have a question, well, I guess a loaded question regarding a whole life insurance policy that I took out. I think that's what it's called.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

I took it out when I was 19, I'm 22 now, so it's been, I would say two years and a half. Almost three years would be three years in June. And I've put in a lot of money into it and I've read a lot of stuff online and just, you know, gone back and forth and I've gotten like, sort of scared that I could have done something a lot better with my retirement, with my future and whatnot.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much have you put in so far? You said a lot of money. What does that mean?

[Caller]

So I, in total, with payments and everything, I've put in 21,000 and right now there's like a surrender charge of like four grand or something like that that will go away to zero in like a couple of years.

[George Kamel]

That's how they like it. They want to keep you on the hook and go, man, if you just hang on this thing, you got to really ride it out. Who sold this policy to you? It was someone you knew, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

So my mom was in the business of selling it, but it wasn't her. Like she left this, she's now doing something else. But one of her close friends, you know, you know, talked to me about it. I mean it all sounds good. And all I got one that has, that's for 300,000 with long term care in it. I had a lot of like medical problems growing up. And so some of them still affect me to this day. So I kind of like just made a decision like I want to protect myself and in the case that I get hurt, you know, I have that like long term care available to me. So yeah, I, I'm currently on path to go to medical school and hoping to start this summer assuming everything goes well. If not, you know, reapply this summer. But yeah, that's, that's where I'm at at the moment.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, well I'll give you kudos of doing something. You know, there's some 19 year olds that don't do anything financially. So the fact that you are at least looking, thinking about even like long term care insurance which we usually don't tell people they need till they're 60. 60. Yeah, but they sold you a pack of goods, Joseph, and yeah, you and you bought in.

[George Kamel]

So the good news is you're only 22. So I know it feels like oh my gosh, I blew $21,000, which is a lot of money. But in the grand scheme a lot of people hang onto these policies for a decade or two and then go, oh my gosh, I need to get out of this. So yes, it was a bad idea. No, you don't need to feel shame. This happens every day from, you know, to well meaning people from close family friends that are looking to make a commission off your back. Because the truth is you don't need life insurance unless someone is depending on your income. So do you have kids or a wife?

[Caller]

No, you know, hopefully not, at least for another couple of years. I think it's going to be a couple stressful in school and whatnot. So I'm with my parents at the moment.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So you really don't need life insurance, Joseph, at all.

[George Kamel]

And if you want it, get term life in place and then cancel the whole life policy, surrender it. And don't listen to whatever they say on the phone. They're going to say, no, no, no, you need to keep it. Here's why it's a really good idea to hang on to this. You just need to firmly say, no thank you, I want to surrender the policy.

[Rachel Cruze]

And then you can start investing, Joseph. Right. That's really where you're going to find lots of growth with your money, not in a whole life policy. A whole life policy basically bundles insurance and investing together in one account with a crappy rate of return versus keeping it separate. So getting term life that has no investments attached to it, it's literally Just a term policy at 20, 30, 40 year, whatever you choose, but you don't need one. And then you can look at investing and investing. What your money will do just even in an index fund or a mutual fund is going to be probably what, 6, 7 times X what you'll probably get in a standard whole life policy, the growth.

[George Kamel]

So instead of 2% return, it could be 12% or more. And so I would get out of this thing asap. Get term life if you feel like you want it or need it, it's going to be a fraction of the price. You know, whole life is five to 15 times more expensive than term. And so I would contact our friends at Xander. They can help you out. You can jump on to Xander.com or give them a call, 800-356-4282 and they'll help walk you through that. And I hope you qualify. You said you have some health issues, so I don't know what bearing that's going to have on, you know, the underwriting for your life insurance policy. But if you're worried about this becoming a problem in the future, it is wise to get your term life now and get it for a longer period. Like 25 years. If, you know, hey, I'll be, you know, almost 50 by the time this policy expires, which means the kids are out of the house, my spouse is going to be okay. You've been investing for 25 years, so you'll be fine at that point. You don't need it for your whole life.

[Caller]

Would it be a good idea for me to wait until that surrender charge goes away?

[George Kamel]

Just, it's, it's a sunk cost fallacy. I would just go, all right, I'm going to pay whatever I need to pay for the penalty and move on with my life. You'll get the cash value out, which I don't know what that will be. You can do the math and figure that out, but just take what you can and move on with your life. I wouldn't hang onto it for another day.

[Caller]

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, it's just, I don't know, it just, I guess it sounded real nice. I mean they, they showed me like a bunch of like returns. Like, yeah, I would too.

[George Kamel]

If I was selling whole life insurance, I would make it look like the best thing since sliced bread. But the truth is, as you found online, literally no financial advisor with, you know, that isn't just secretly. An insur. Insurance salesman would say this is a good idea for a 19 year old.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's a Horrible product. And almost everyone in the financial space knows that, except for people that sell it, so.

[George Kamel]

And they go by sketchy names, like, I'm a wealth strategist, and they're secretly just whole life insurance sales people. So just. I know. Sounded good.

[Rachel Cruze]

But then they mix up the names. It'll be universal.

[George Kamel]

They have all these index, Universal life. And then they have, like, whiteboards where they'll draw.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And you're going to basically become your own bank, and you can take your own money out tax free by taking out a loan against your policy and paying yourself the interest. That's what the wealthy do. Don't listen to any of this crap. No. So I'm sorry you fell for it. My man Brody is in Lexington, Kentucky. Up next. What's going on, Brody?

[Caller]

Hey, George, Rachel. Thank you guys so much for taking my call.

[George Kamel]

Sure. What's your question?

[Caller]

So my question is, me and my wife have had our. We got a car that's overheating. At this point, it looks like it's going to cost more to fix it than the car is actually worth. And we're wondering if guys would recommend. What's the wisest financial decision, whether it's to just sell it or whether it's to try and trade it into your dealership or what the best option would be in this case.

[George Kamel]

So what's the car worth, and what's the repair going to cost?

[Caller]

I think it's worth, according to the private sale and Kelley Blue Book, it's somewhere in the realm of 4,000 is, like, the value. But the way it's overheating right now, it's barely drivable. So I don't know if we'd be able to sell it for. Hardly. If we're even that.

[George Kamel]

So 4,000. If it's in good shape. It's still running properly.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Have you got quotes from multiple mechanics?

[Caller]

We have not. We actually tried reaching out to a couple of other mechanics other than the one that we'd had it at for, like, a few months. And mostly other mechanics said they don't work on Volvos. They recommended the mechanic we already had it at.

[George Kamel]

Okay, what did they say the repair costs will be?

[Caller]

6,900, roughly.

[George Kamel]

Goodness gracious.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, man.

[George Kamel]

Do you guys have any money saved that you could use to buy something else?

[Caller]

We do. We have over 40,000 in all of our accounts together. So we could buy another vehicle. We're just trying to figure out how to minimize our losses on this one.

[George Kamel]

I mean, I think it's going to Be one of those. The dealership buys it for scraps and they give you a thousand bucks.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

That's the truth. If it really is a seven thousand dollar repair.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know. That's why I'd love a second opinion if you can find one. I know that you may. I know you guys have tried, but

[George Kamel]

yeah, there's, there's probably other mechanics that specialize in Volvos and European vehicles and so you might need to find. I would at least get one more before you give up on it. But at that point, buy a reasonable car. Make sure that all the vehicles in your life are less than half of your annual income. Pay cash. Don't get hosed, don't buy brand new. So what are you thinking of buying?

[Caller]

So we haven't really thought much about, about what we're buying next. I mean we like old Toyotas just because they had a better track record for our family.

[George Kamel]

That's a good choice.

[Rachel Cruze]

And check out. Yeah, Christian Automotive Brothers. Christian Brothers. Because they do, they're, they're a great.

[George Kamel]

Oh yeah. If you get one in your area, I'd reach out to them for sure. But good luck with this, man. Cars are just one of those things and it's, they depreciate, they, things go wrong. So I would just do the best with what you got and you got plenty of money. So this is a solvable problem. And grieve the car. Say goodbye. I used to be that guy who bragged about running on no sleep. And then I realized being tired all the time is not a flex to show up as the best George Camel I can be. I need real rest. And that's why I got Casper Mattresses in my home. The experts at Casper designed their mattresses to help you sleep deeper, cooler and more comfortably. And they've been top ranked in both the foam and innerspring mattress categories by Consumer Reports. You and your entire family deserve great sleep. So go to Casper.com Ramsey and use code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses and 10% off everything else. That gives you up to 1,200 bucks off the Snowmax mattress, which is the exact one I sleep on. That's Casper.com Ramsey code RA.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[George Kamel]

Things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner that you can trust. They'll help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation or for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes in the past year. So go to ramseysolutions.com taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team. Pam is in Columbia, South Carolina. Up next. Pam, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hello.

[George Kamel]

Hey. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I currently work 70 hours a week making 83,000 total, with 61,000 of that being my full time job. And I have been offered a position for $108,000 as the full time position. My dilemma is my full time job did pay for my student loans and I would owe my full time employer $5,250 at departure.

[George Kamel]

All right.

[Caller]

And I don't have $5,250.

[George Kamel]

How much do you have?

[Caller]

So I'm just kind of wondering a way to navigate that. Well, they would keep my last paycheck, which would be around 2000, and then other than that, I have $1000 for the emergency fund and I have 1600 dollars set aside to. Because I'm speaking at a conference in May.

[George Kamel]

So that's your travel, lodging, all of that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Well, I'm wondering, would your new employer be willing to cover the gap, almost like a sign on bonus if you explain this to them?

[Caller]

Yeah, that I don't know. I don't consider that option.

[George Kamel]

I would reach out and do it very kindly and just say, hey, I'm really excited about this position. There's one snafu when I leave this employer. I owe them this much money because of the student loan payoff. Is this something that you guys would be willing to cover as part of this new job?

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

And to see what they say, because

[Rachel Cruze]

It'll be what, 3,000? Is that what you said, that you'll be left after your paycheck?

[Caller]

Yeah. They're a little over 3,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Are you relocating for this position?

[Caller]

No.

[George Kamel]

Okay, well.

[Rachel Cruze]

And the 1600 is not till May. And you could if you. Yeah. And if the. Yep. And if the employer. You're the new employer. If you ask them and they're like not comfortable. 3,000, you could say, you know, even 2,000. I mean, I would throw, I would throw any cash I had to get out because you can build that back up pretty quick with this new salary.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Within your first paycheck.

[Caller]

Yeah.

The only thing I thought about with the 1600 is like, how am I going to cover my bills with them keeping my last paycheck?

[George Kamel]

I was thinking that too.

[Caller]

How are you going to float that position?

Because it'll be about three weeks between paychecks because they're on a different pay week than what I'm currently.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you'll need that buffer too, for sure.

[George Kamel]

I would hang on to it because I don't want you going into debt over this. Yeah, the goal is to just try to cash flow it. Can you talk to your current employer about basically paying it back by a certain date even after you're gone?

[Caller]

I'm given 30 days after departure, is

what the contract says.

[George Kamel]

Okay, great. And is your new employer okay with a later start date? Because that's the other option is you go, hey, I can't start until this. Okay. I mean, I would explain to them, say, hey, either I have to start at this later date so I can pay this off, or if you guys could cover the difference, I can start earlier.

[Caller]

Yeah, I would definitely be willing to open that conversation because I don't want to go into debt. I've been working really hard to get out of debt, but the idea of making that much more money to be able to.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, it's stressful and it's, you know, it's part of these employer benefits. Sometimes there are strings attached where they go, well, I don't want to cover your student loans and you just leave us immediately, which is kind of what's happening here. So that's why they have these rules in place. But you got this new great income. I think you're going to pay your debt off in no time. And remember, do not allow lifestyle creep to happen with your new salary. You're going, wow, I can afford more now? No, we're going to use all of this to attack our debt and actually build some wealth for our life. Thanks for the call. Sam is in Los Angeles up next. Sam, what's going on?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm calling because I'm trying to see if I should move to another city that has a cheaper cost of living in order to afford my own place. Is it smart for me to get my own place as a. I'm right. I'm single. And so I'm just trying to figure out what the smartest thing for me to do.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I would say it's less about your marital status and more about financially where you are when it comes to buying a home. Are you. Do you have consumer debt?

[Caller]

I have no debt, thanks to you guys.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good for you. That's great.

[Caller]

And I recently paid off my mom's parent plus loan that she took out for me, so.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh, Sam, well done. That's amazing.

[Caller]

Thanks to you guys.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Well, that's amazing. Do you have money saved up for a down payment?

[Caller]

Yes, I have money saved up for A down payment as well as a three to like five month emergency fund because I do work in TV and film. So as we know it's like an unpredictable industry.

[George Kamel]

How much do you have saved for the down payment?

[Caller]

I have 65,000 and then another 10,000 for closing cost saved.

[George Kamel]

Awesome. Okay. And you're in the LA area currently?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

So you're looking at housing prices and you're just thinking, oh my gosh, this

[George Kamel]

is, it's a million dollars for a starter home that I need to do a renovation on.

[Caller]

Yeah. And a lot of my friends who did buy are like kind of giving me the real deal about it, about like being house poor and then the industry slowing down here as well. So it's just catching up to everything.

[George Kamel]

That is a real fe. Well, could you even move to another state and still do your job?

[Caller]

I can. I was looking at Vegas because I do have some family there. And then the commute, since I do go there often to visit, it's not as bad. But I also like for the past five years have like four or five months. I've worked out of the country on other projects.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh nice.

[Caller]

And I rent. So that's why I'm really looking to buy because I literally paid rent while I wasn't even there because I couldn't rent it out.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, well, I mean even doing a short term rental while you're in and out, that's still going to be a different headache. And so it's going to be difficult either way. But I understand wanting to have your own place. What are you paying for rent right now?

[Caller]

I pay 2250, not including utilities.

[George Kamel]

Okay, and what do you make in general? On an average year

[Caller]

for the past five years I made about like 150 to last year I made 230, but I am self employed so that is no taxes taken out yet.

[George Kamel]

Oh, so you got to pay the quarterly taxes out of that?

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so that's your gross income. Well, you have a great income and truthfully I think you're not going to be able to get a mortgage for 2250 right now based on the numbers that you've given us. You know, putting 65 grand down on a million dollar home is going to be a massive mortgage. And so I would just wait and keep saving, keep renting. And down the road if you're still like, hey, I really want my own place, you might need to go further out but again that's going to be a longer commute if you're way out of LA area that you're going to have to deal with. So just you're trading one problem for another and you just have to make peace with that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Or what you said, Sam, option three is just moving to a completely different area and saying, you know, you own your own business, seeing how you can keep it afloat. Because it sounds like you, you're great at it. Right. So if there's ways to still do that and live somewhere cheaper, that's the best of both worlds, in my opinion. Because, yeah, we, we've, we talked to a lot of people that end up leaving, whether it's, you know, the New York area, California, just because of cost of living. Like, I would rather live somewhere and have margin financially to be able to do things and have fun than. Yep. Be house poor just to live in this one specific area. You know, And I understand people have family and friends and a life that they've built in an area, but at the end of the day, it is kind of like, hey, what, what is going to create a level of peace for me? And I think a lot of people have made the decision to, to leave to a more affordable cost of living area.

[George Kamel]

I mean, even the taxes alone, you're probably taking home half of that, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's, it's super. It's been really, really expensive being here. And it's not even the cost of living too. It's just like I've been here for 10 years and every time I come back after a job, it doesn't feel like home. So that's another reason why I looked at other places.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. I mean, even if you take a pay cut and your quality of life is higher and you can afford a house, that might be a better life. Even if it means switching your job or career field, I think your skills will transfer, especially as a small business owner. So it's a big decision. We can't tell you exactly what to do, but I hope we gave you some questions to be asking, some insights. Thanks for the call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well, make a healthy profit and grow, and your team, family and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic and you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it all alone. That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system, accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further, automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster, you're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And yeah, switching systems is a big move, but NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to netsuite.comramsey for a free product tour and to schedule time with a NetSuite wrap. That's NetSuite.com Ramsey.

[George Kamel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, I'm George Camel, joined by my co host Rachel Cruz, also my co host on Smart Money Happy Hour. You can catch all of that on the Ramsey Network. We've got Sarah up next in Orlando, Florida. What's going on?

[Caller]

Sarah, hi. I am struggling with my husband lying to me financially. I've been struggling with this for about two years and I'm just wanting some advice on how to fix this.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, gosh, Sarah, what's he, you said he's lying about your money. What's an example of that? What does that mean?

[Caller]

So I first found out about that he'd been lying our whole marriage a couple years ago. He had a large chunk of money from the sale of a house that he had put into or he told me he put into a high yield savings account. And when we got to the point of talking about buying a house, it came out that he had been completely lying about it, that there that he'd spent all the money. And I still don't know where he spent all that money. There are other times where we'll put money in the safe as like a savings account just, you know, in case of emergencies. And I went in there one day last March to get some money out to pay a bill and the money was gone. And it's kind of things like this that are consistently happening.

[Rachel Cruze]

And what does he say when you confront him? Where does he say the money went?

[Caller]

Sometimes the $70,000, I'm not sure where it went even to this day. But for the other stuff, he says that it goes to, you know, if I'm out of town for work, he says that he went and spent it eating out or he went and just bought some random stuff that we don't really need that he's not really going to use.

[George Kamel]

Have you seen said for him? Is there actual proof of the Things he's saying, he's purchasing.

[Caller]

Yes. Like, I see the receipts from where he's gone out to eat, and, you know, he brought home a guitar and tried to play it for two weeks and then stopped playing it. And now it's just sitting in the closet.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Well, there's a few layers to this, and I don't know if there's something more nefarious happening behind the scenes. You know, there's financial infidelity. Is there actual infidelity? Is there an addiction? Is there gambling? There's so much we don't know because he's not being fully transparent. And that is the only solution. There's the only hope for this marriage is him coming totally clean. Because right now, you can't trust him.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because usually, Sarah, if there is a level of deceit financially, not always, but more than half the time, there's something else happening on the other side of that door. And I don't.

[George Kamel]

You don't just blow 70 grand on some toys.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I don't know what that is, what that looks like. But my fear is his character is proving out to be that he lies. He's a liar. He doesn't keep his word. And if he's lying about one area of life, again, I pray it's not the case. But there's a good chance there's other things going on. And so I would, for your sake of the marriage, to keep the marriage at all intact, you guys need to sit down with a really, really good marriage therapist or counselor and start hashing out again. It's not just that. It's not just the money piece. This always goes deeper. This is always. It's usually never a money issue. It usually starts to show itself as a. As a marriage issue. And that's what this is. This is a man who has to make a decision on whether he's going to choose to rebuild trust with his wife, Sarah, and you guys will create a roadmap over a long process of that healing journey for you to be able to trust him again or if the patterns continue. I don't know how you stay married to someone that continues to lie to you.

[Caller]

Well, that's. That's the hard thing, because in a lot of ways, he's great. He helps out around the home. He is very encouraging. And spiritually, you know, I don't really believe in divorce. And so. So it's hard because our whole lives are intertwined. You know, we go to church together. Like, I want to be led by a godly man.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're not, Sarah. You're not. You're not though. You're not. He took $70,000, Sarah, and lied about it. You guys have a, have a agreement that you're gonna put money over here. And he chooses to be a selfish, A selfish child and go buy a freaking guitar. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it is. It's pretty glaring. And I don't trust him. And so, no, that's not a man who leads you spiritually, Sarah. No, you can't put a spiritual umbrella over this. This is wrong. This is wrong.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Rachel Cruze]

And I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh about it, but.

[Caller]

No, that's probably something that I need to hear.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I mean, it's just. And we're a third party that doesn't know you from Adam. So when you give us information that you've been used to holding, it's become normalized to you. But you say it to us and we're like, no. And again, I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm not saying he like has a double life or something.

[George Kamel]

And he can be a bad guy. I want to jump to that in a lot of other ways. But it doesn't matter if you can't trust him. You understand? That's the root of this whole thing. And I'm sure he's a hard worker and he goes to church. He can check all the boxes. But if you can't trust him and he constantly lies to you, there is no relationship here. And so starting today, I'd say, hey, I'm a joint owner on every single bank account, every account in our life. And if you say no to that, we can't move forward.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And it's a spectrum here, Sarah. Again, we jump probably to the dramatics. Cause we do this show for a living. So I feel like we hear some of the craziest stories. So, yes, it could be that he's just sloppy with money, he's irresponsible, he's immature about it, and he needs to grow up.

[George Kamel]

That's a best case scenario.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's the best case scenario. You know what I mean? But he needs to understand the seriousness of this. Because if you want to talk scripture, I can throw a lot of money scriptures at you that actually depict what your heart and character are, is how a reflection of money and how you handle money. And so it's. Yeah, he needs. He needs to step up and be a man. And if he can't own this or understand the Seriousness of what he has eroded in your marriage, trustwise, if he

[George Kamel]

brushes it off and goes, well, you know, I just. I. I bought some toys while you were out of town. My bad. That's not enough.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And. And you too, Sarah, you know, on your end, you gotta decide what if it's that serious to you, and it may not be. You may get off this call and be like, I can function in this for the rest of my life. And you may choose to, I don't know. Cause it's the harder work to not sweep things under the rug and actually to pull the rug out and deal with the crap that's sitting right there. That's marriage work. Like, that's the hard work in marriage. It's so much easier to be like, it's not a big deal. I'm gonna just justify it over here. Cause he is a good guy and we're gonna. And then that's the level of marriage you're gonna have. But if you guys want to do the work, to dig deeper, not only financially can you be healed, but I think you'll have a much healthier, real, honest, authentic relationship in your marriage as well. Which is probably the ultimate goal, you know?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

We're hoping for healing for you, but you've got some hard work ahead of

[Rachel Cruze]

you, and it's red flags. So hear us say that.

[George Kamel]

Conversations and how he reacts is going to be very telling.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

And I love the quote, when someone shows you who they are, believe them. And so the more he shows you that he can't be trusted, the more you have to realize he's just not a trustworthy person and I can't change him. And therefore I am not safe in this relationship. That's it. That's the hard truth. And I hope you guys have some good counseling and church family that can help support you through this. I hope there's healing and redemption on the other side.

[Rachel Cruze]

Get some healthy, spiritual Christian people around you. Healthy, healthy.

[George Kamel]

Bring it all into the light. That's the path forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most people just drift through life with their money. No plan, no budget, stuck on autopilot. But winning with money is intentional. That's why I love Fairwinds Credit Union. They've built tools for people who don't want gimmicks or games. Their Smart bundle includes a high yield savings account to help your emergency fund grow. And their Spend Smart checking account won't nickel and dime you to death with fees like other banks. Plus, it comes with the Ramsey Be Weird debit card, which says debt Is normal. Be weird right on the front of it. It keeps you connected to your budget. And every time you use it, it's a reminder you control your money, not the other way around. Fair Winds Credit Union is for people who are serious about taking control of their money. So if you're ready to stop drifting and start building wealth on purpose, open your Smart Bundle today at Fairwinds.org Ramsey that's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[George Kamel]

Hope is on the line in Albuquerque. What's going on, Hope?

[Caller]

Hi, you guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm excited to have you guys because my question is regarding the Tesla.

[George Kamel]

Yes, you called the right people today because if Dave was on air, he would have hung up on you.

[Caller]

That's exciting.

[George Kamel]

Call me back when you want to buy a real car.

[Rachel Cruze]

Two Tesla drivers. Okay, what's the question? Because we're probably going to say yes. I hope we can.

[Caller]

So my husband and I were debt free. We both work in the trades and we make about 7 1/2 k a month. So I don't know what that is. Yearly I'm not that great with.

[George Kamel]

Is that your take home pay?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Okay, great. So that's coming out to about 90 grand.

[Caller]

Okay, perfect.

So.

But we are 21 and we're newly married and we don't need the car necessarily. Both of our cars are paid off. I tried to do the calculations of what our cars are worth. Mine is about 5, but my husband's is different and I can explain that. He drives a 1996 Range Rover. So real old.

[George Kamel]

But hope he knows how to fix cars.

[Caller]

Oh my gosh. It's a nightmare.

[George Kamel]

Oh, no.

[Caller]

But it's a sentimental thing for him. He bought it from his parents for four grand. But similar models have sold for much higher at auction. So I don't know how to calculate that worth. So therefore I'm not sure if it's wise for us to buy a Tesla because we're not getting rid of either of our cars.

[George Kamel]

Well, let's say you kept him and let's say his cars are. I mean, it's a 1996. Can we call it, you know, on the low side of the auction?

[Caller]

Yeah, we could. I think the last two that I saw were about 25 grand.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so we'll say you got 30 grand worth of vehicles right now and we base it off of your gross household income, which is going to be more than that, 90. So it's probably more like 120 is what you Guys, are, you know, your taxable income?

[Caller]

Mm.

[George Kamel]

So how much is this Tesla going to cost?

[Caller]

So we were thinking maybe 15 to 20. And we don't have the money right now that I want to spend on it, so we're going to wait until maybe December if.

[Rachel Cruze]

So y' all say, do you guys have any. Do you guys have any consumer debt?

[Caller]

No, no consumer debt. We just have our mortgage. We bought our house in August, so we have about 217,000 on that.

[George Kamel]

Okay, what kind of Tesla are you thinking?

[Caller]

You know, that's up to him. I have no idea. I don't understand the difference.

[George Kamel]

Is he going to be driving it?

[Caller]

Mostly, yes. His car is the older one. Mine's 2012, so.

[George Kamel]

So this would be his daily driver, and he'll keep the 1996 Range Rover as kind of just sentimental value weekend driving.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[George Kamel]

Okay, well, this is all reasonable so far. You're paying cash. It's not more than half of your annual household income. You're doing it all the right.

[Rachel Cruze]

You guys have an emergency fund, right?

[Caller]

We have six months.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I mean, I would. I would be okay with it. I mean, yeah, I think that's part of this. Baby steps 4, 5, and 6. But make sure you're investing in retirement. You know, you're doing all the baseline stuff. You're being generous. You're giving. You guys have your consistent investments going for retirement. But yeah, if you guys want to save up and.

[George Kamel]

And you're buying. So that's the. That's the goal. I use pay cash. Not more than half your annual income.

[Rachel Cruze]

Hope I love when we get to say yes.

[George Kamel]

This felt really good.

[Caller]

I love it so much.

[George Kamel]

Usually it's some dude going, I want to save on gas. So can I spend $50,000 and take out a loan to get a Tesla? The answer is no, Brad. So thank you for giving us hope in America. I know.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's great.

[George Kamel]

That's a fun one. Okay, Courtney's in D.C. up next. Courtney, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. I'm really excited to be here. Thanks, guys.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Good to have you. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, so my question is, I recently just came into making both 1099 income and W2 income, and I am just having a little bit of trouble figuring out if I should be doing, like, being in an LLC to help myself save money and if I should be doing this self employment employment retirement plan to also reduce my taxes. My goal is just to save as much money as possible. So I'm just kind of at a beginner.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much Are you making at both your full time job and then your 1099?

[Caller]

So the total household income, my wife and I make between 164,000 and 197,000. The 1099 specifically is just me. That's. That's between 25 and 37,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so you make 37

[Caller]

plus my W2 money, but yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Which was what? How much do you make in your W2?

[Caller]

Between my two jobs, I make about 75,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Okay, well, what kind of work is the 1099?

[Caller]

It is social media management.

[George Kamel]

Oh, okay. So you don't need an llc that's more of a liability protection category versus I need this because I run a business. You can just do a schedule C and be a sole proprietor and do that for the foreseeable future and just make sure you pay your quarterly estimated payments to the irs.

[Caller]

Right, okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I would say if it becomes your main source of income, like if you end up tripling it or something, then I feel like you could probably.

[George Kamel]

This is a long term business that

[Rachel Cruze]

you're going to have look into more commitments, meaning even the retirement account. Yep. And if you're gonna, you know, be hiring someone under you, like all of that, if it starts to expand into something bigger because you're making so much more, then you can kind of consider that next step in the small business world. But for now you're kind of just, you know, you, you freelance, which is great that you're making an extra 37000 doing this.

[George Kamel]

If you start making 50k, 100k, I would contact a CPA and figure out what the best status would be for you because it might be like an S corp versus an LLC and they can walk you through all the differences and which beneficial for you.

[Caller]

Okay. And then the part about the retirement plans, we usually have about $2,000 left over every month and I just don't know if I should be putting it there or if I should be putting it just like in our mutual fund.

[George Kamel]

What options do you currently have through your employer for retirement?

[Caller]

So my W2 income doesn't have any retirement attached to it. My wife's does. She has 6% that she's putting in. It gets a 6% or a match. We both. Yeah, 6% for both. And then we both do max out our Roth IRAs.

[Rachel Cruze]

Great, great.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. I would focus on maxing out all the tax advantaged retirement accounts first. So for her that might mean we're going to max out her retirement and if there's money beyond that, we've done, you know, the IRAs, we've maxed two of those out. We've maxed out the 401k. If you have an HSA, a health savings account through your high deductible health plan, you can max that out as well. And so those would be all the options I'd go to first before going outside of retirement into like a brokerage account and investing in some mutual funds.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because once you, once you max that out at 15%, the retirement side of life, I feel like you can kind of check off because you can't touch that money till you know you're 59 and a half. So if you have more to invest, that's when it would be like, okay, yeah, why don't you just get, yeah, brokerage account, index fund or something because it could be money that you guys may want to use in the next five years. You know what I mean? Where retirement, it's really locked up, but for tax purposes it's wonderful. Especially the Roth ira. So those are always the first buckets to fill to make sure retirement's good and then any. And investing beyond that definitely is an option down the road.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. And there's some nerdier options. I won't get deep in the weeds, but there's something called a mega backdoor Roth 401k where you can actually contribute after tax dollars into the 401k and then convert it. And so that might be an option through your employer. You have to have an employer that allows both the in plan conversions and the after tax contributions.

[Rachel Cruze]

But again, that extra extra you can't touch till your 15. Exactly have to. So you may want to say I

[George Kamel]

prefer to put it in kind of the bridge account like Rachel was talking about in case you need that money down the line when let's say in your 40s or 50s.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep.

[George Kamel]

Okay, but okay, you're crushing it. Way to go.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well done.

[George Kamel]

Quite the work ethic.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

That's amazing.

[Rachel Cruze]

Look at you. That Mega backdoor Roth George. That's why we love hosting with George.

[George Kamel]

It sounds like a seven year old

[Rachel Cruze]

came up with he loves our Mega backdoor Roth.

[George Kamel]

It's all right, bud. Settle down. Go play with your toys.

[Rachel Cruze]

The giant.

[George Kamel]

Like why mega? It sounds like something Trump named, but it's existed long before. Trump, Trump. One big beautiful mega back door.

[Rachel Cruze]

Just a Mega. Just a Mega.

[George Kamel]

It's a good and a back door.

[Rachel Cruze]

We're sneaking in the back.

[George Kamel]

Not enough people are talking about it.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know, George. That's why we love you.

[George Kamel]

I'm the only one in America. Me and some financial advisors, we love that.

[Rachel Cruze]

George.

[George Kamel]

Because you got the back door off Ira. The mega back door 401k. If your brain hurts, you're not alone. America. Rachel is done with this conversation.

[Caller]

So am I, Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Finally, mortgage rates have dropped. And you know what that means. People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their Home buyer Edge program gives you peace of mind. In a wild market, you can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com to get started today. That's ChurchillMortgage.com this is a paid advertisement.

[George Kamel]

Homebuyer Edge and Seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in all states or locations in mls.id 1591nmlsconsumerexcess.org/al housing lender. We wish that we could get to every call and question here on the show. The inbox is completely full of your wonderful questions. The calls have been lined up and we can't get to them all. So if you have a money question you want an answer for your situation, we've got you covered. Head over to our website and use our new Ask Ramsey AI. It's completely free. It's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. I've been stress testing this, Rachel, and I've been so impressed with the level of knowledge it has. It sounds like us on the show because it's trained by all of our articles and all the things we say on the show.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, I was gonna say that's. And when I say feed, I don't even know really what that means. Right. But you feed the AI of all of our advice and it's hungry from. From the show articles, our team. So it really is buttoned up. It's. It's amazing.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, you're not going to get this from Google because it's taking in way too many sources. It' cloud the judgment. And so if you want your question answered Ramsey style, go do it for free. Today, Ramsey Solutions.com is the place to go and you'll see a big like search bar in there. That's the Ask Ramsey AI tool. So just put your question in there. It will launch you into the tool and it's really neat. And if you log in you can actually save your chat history.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

So you can go back and reference it.

[Rachel Cruze]

I threw it up on Instagram Stories because I did a Q and A yesterday.

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

And some people were dming me. One girl goes, oh my gosh, I just got my. She literally said it. I just got my 401k question answered. And a relational issue I've been having with my brother in law about money. She's like, it gave me great advice. I was like, oh so that's amazing. So good. We might be out of a job. I know.

[George Kamel]

And it's free. I don't know. That's incredible. So go check it out. It's going to be a great starting point at least to get your question answered. If not completely solve it. So. Ramseysolutions.com Enter the question in the Ask Ramsey search bar there on the homepage or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Mary is in New York City up next. Mary, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Thank you so much for taking my call.

[George Kamel]

Sure. How can Rachel and I help?

[Caller]

Awesome. So first, I'm so grateful for finding you all. Seven months ago I decided I'm making too much money to be stressed about money. Got the Everydollar app and it's completely changed our spending habits and we actually budget now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, I love it. Well done.

[George Kamel]

What a great testimonial.

[Caller]

Awesome.

So we are on baby step two. In the next couple months I expect to have about a $20,000 inheritance coming to me. We have 43,000 left on a HELOC. That's our remaining debt. But in order to solidify this behavioral change, I'd rather put the 20k in our emergency fund and continue to work and pay off the debt ourselves. I consider it like a twelve hundred dollar interest stupid tax. If we're able to pay it off when we should be able to pay it off by October 1st this year, is it sensible to take that interest loss as a stupid tax in order to kind of maintain our discipline and earn being debt free?

[Rachel Cruze]

I would say, Mary, your Behavior's already been changed. I mean, you guys are paying off debt, you're budgeting, you're in it, you're doing it.

[George Kamel]

You're angry at your past decisions and you're never going to do it again.

[Rachel Cruze]

I don't think that this is going to be a windfall that you guys pay off half the HELOC when you receive this 20 grand and then suddenly go back in your old ways. If anything, I think it. It's exciting. It's a little bit of that. Like, oh, my gosh, we just were given a gift to fast forward this process so quickly. And then once it's all paid off, then you can have all of your income to build the emergency fund back. So I would keep the baby steps in order. I hear what you're saying, and I so appreciate that because sometimes that is our caution. If we have people that are just starting this process and they do get a big loss, you know, they. They had a lawsuit, so they get a, you know, a check from that, a settlement, or they go, I'm going

[George Kamel]

to just sell the house and use that to pay off the debt, but never change my spending behavior.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, but you guys have changed your behavior is what it sounds like to me. I'd give yourself probably more credit.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

And it's going to light a fire under you to not have an emergency fund have that thousand dollars only while you attack the heloc.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

And guess what? You get the discipline and behavior change of having to build up an emergency fund from scratch. So you will, you will get to eat your vegetables soon enough.

[Caller]

Sounds good.

Yeah. The emergency fund being at a thousand and not contributing to retirement has been a lot of fire.

[George Kamel]

That's more behavior change right there. If you willing to stick that out through the debt payoff versus getting a little too comfortable having 20 grand sitting in savings. You're like, well, I mean, we're going to be okay. Something happened.

[Rachel Cruze]

Mary, how much do you guys make a year?

[Caller]

We just hit about 300 before taxes and all that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Amazing. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So this debt's gone within a few months anyways.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, that's the plan.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

So either way, in six to nine months. Months, you're going to end up in the same place. But you know, regardless, if you keep this in an emergency fund or whatnot. But I would just throw it at the debt and just keep that, Keep

[George Kamel]

that process and the money you save in interest, you can give to a wonderful cause once you guys are debt free with an emergency fund. So don't punish Yourself, just for fun.

[Caller]

Okay, that sounds good. Thank you so much.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well done, Mary. Excited for y'.

[Caller]

All.

[George Kamel]

Fantastic. All right, Anna is in Columbia, South Carolina. Up next. What's going on? Anna?

[Caller]

Hey, how are you?

[George Kamel]

Great. What's your question?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we're kind of in a difficult situation. My husband and I were pretty much forced back in November to pretty much restructure our entire financial dilemma because his. They made a mistake with his company. He got a promotion, and he was making really good money. So we were basing a lot of our financial decisions off of this income that he was getting. But then they come back nine months later and tell us that this income that he was making was actually a mistake. They made a mistake on his commission.

[George Kamel]

What, so they overpaid him, and now they're saying, hey, we need that money back?

[Caller]

Well, no, they're not making him pay it back. But he did have his suspicions. You're not really supposed to discuss pay with other employees. But he had other people in his position that he had spoke to and were talking about some hard things going on with their paychecks because it's all commission driven. And he wasn't really feeling that because his was a lot higher than theirs.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

So he brought it to. Brought it to the attention of the higher ups, and they looked at it and they said, yeah, actually is. It's wrong on here.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, no, we didn't have to pay it back.

[Caller]

But they aren't. But it is affecting our taxes this year big time. Because of the withholding?

[George Kamel]

Yeah, he wasn't withholding enough. So you have a big tax bill.

[Caller]

Yes. So we're going to owe about 4,000 in taxes this year.

[Rachel Cruze]

What were. What was he making? And now what's the corrected pay?

[Caller]

So he was making about 2,500 a week, and now it's more like anywhere between like 12 and 1500 a week.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, gosh. So it, like, cut in half. Yeah.

[Caller]

So we made some financial decisions along the way based on that income.

[George Kamel]

Shoot. What kind of decisions?

[Caller]

Yeah, debt.

[George Kamel]

How much?

[Rachel Cruze]

Car payments, credit card payments.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, let's not blame the company for that, by the way. We made some decisions to go into debt so that there's. There's both. And here. So what is the car loan or loans?

[Caller]

Well, I will say this. We have. Since this happened, we have gotten on the best track that we possibly could. We were. We did have three vehicles. Now we have two. We. We got rid of one of them that we didn't necessarily need. And I actually got rid of the More expensive one that I was paying way too much money on and paid the negative equity with the proceeds from the previous vehicle.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Okay.

[Caller]

So now we're down to about 30,000 with two cars.

[George Kamel]

Two cars. 30 grand total in car loans. What about credit cards?

[Caller]

Credit cards? We have about 10,000 credit card debt.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Any other consumer debt other than that?

[Caller]

I mean it totals to be about 50,000 with the cars and the credit cards.

[George Kamel]

Oh.

[Rachel Cruze]

So y' all got this new, you got this new money and you said we can live it up.

[George Kamel]

And what about the house?

[Caller]

Yeah, the payments started racking up. So that's what I'm, that's my question. We have, we're willing to do anything we can to just get us back, get our heads above water and actually live and not be house poor. So our house is what's costing us a lot of money.

[George Kamel]

What's your payment every month?

[Caller]

2,400.

Oof.

And yeah, all of our total expenses for housing is around 3,000amonth whenever you add utilities and things like that.

[George Kamel]

So now we're just wondering over half your tank home pay?

[Caller]

Yeah. So we're thinking should we sell the house and downsize since the market's kind of trending?

[George Kamel]

Are you working outside the home?

[Caller]

Yes, I have a full time job.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much are you bringing in a month?

[Caller]

52,000 a year.

[George Kamel]

Great. So this is not as on fire as we thought because I thought it was basing just on his income. I wouldn't sell the house. I think you guys will get your income back up to where this will be a reasonable payment. As far as your take home pay, I would look at selling one or both of the cars if you want to get out of this faster, but otherwise you got a great income. Let's focus on knocking out this 50k of debt and never going back in

[Rachel Cruze]

and watching lifestyle creep. Anna, you know like that, that range when you get a raise, everyone's like, oh, I can spend this much more. And you just keep your lifestyle consistent with that versus living below your means. So remember that. But yeah, you guys can definitely get this worked out.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[George Kamel]

Of the day is brought to you by Y refi. Defaulted private student loans don't go away by ignoring them, but you can face them with a plan. Why Refi helps you refinance into low fixed rate payments built around what you can afford so you can take control and get back on the baby steps. Go to yrefi.comramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Rachel Cruze]

Today's question comes from Rebecca in California. Oh, I just saw. I just saw this. Thank you, Rebecca. Should Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce get a prenup considering they both have their own income and careers?

[Caller]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

This is a Rachel question.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, Rebecca. Taylor Swift should get the prenup because I think she's a billionaire.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. She's got a higher net worth than him.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, Less. Less about the. She has her own income and their own career.

[George Kamel]

She's a working woman.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, she's a working woman.

[George Kamel]

She's a billionaire.

[Rachel Cruze]

But also when you have a major discrepancy in net worth, that's one of the only times that we talk about a prenup is probably wise. Wise to do so don't go.

[George Kamel]

Well, Rachel told Taylor she can get a prenup. Why not me?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Because you don't have a massive business empire and intellectual property and catalog rights and touring companies and everything that Taylor's got going on.

[Rachel Cruze]

Taylor's prenup compared to Travis is thick.

[George Kamel]

We shared the meme on social, which was like the lawyers counting money. They're like the lawyers working on the prenup for Taylor and Travis.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know, I know. So, yes, I would very much say, as she should, Taylor Swift, I would get a prenup.

[George Kamel]

And Travis, very successful NFL player.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

He's got a lot of assets too. And so I think it is wise for those two people to have just some clarity about. Here's what we're bringing into the marriage. Here's how we're going to handle it. Here's what happens if the unthinkable happens.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right.

[George Kamel]

That's okay to do when you have that level of wealth.

[Rachel Cruze]

For sure. For sure. Oh, Rebecca, thanks for the question.

[George Kamel]

Did you get an invite to their wedding?

[Rachel Cruze]

No, not yet. Okay. I'm still.

[George Kamel]

I love the yet. I love the optimism you have that you will get invited somehow. Somehow you'll be lucky to get a ticket to the live stream.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure.

[George Kamel]

But you'll make that.

[Rachel Cruze]

I hope they live stream it.

[George Kamel]

They won't.

[Rachel Cruze]

I hope for their sake they keep it price.

[George Kamel]

You know, I would charge tickets and then give the money to charity. That would be the ultimate power move.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, like a pay per View situation.

[George Kamel]

100 bucks to watch all proceeds go to her favorite charity. Why nobody has done that is beyond me. Guys, do I have to come up with all the ideas here?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, that's actually a great idea.

[George Kamel]

I would have done it if I thought anybody would buy tickets to see my wedding. Oh my gosh. What?

[Rachel Cruze]

You're such a generous guy, George.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[George Kamel]

Thank you. Zach is in Nashville up next. What's going on, Zach?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. How you doing? So my question is, how do I determine my salary value as a project manager in my field if I don't have too much to go off of? I put 2.8 million in the ground in eight months. Starting out with this company, brought it from a 600 year yearly revenue to 2.8 million. My salary is 50,000 right now, base. I got a bonus of 2 grand in ext paycheck for Christmas. But I work 80 to 100 hours 7 days a week on call all the time. Got a wife and 8 month old baby.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh my gosh, Zach, what do you, what do you do?

[Caller]

I'm a fencing project manager.

[George Kamel]

Fencing, you said?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Why are you still with this company? Because it feels like you've been mistreated or at least you feel that way.

[Caller]

Well, the owners let me know that there's some big salary things ahead and I'm coming up on my one year negotiation. So I, I've reached out to other franchise owners, PMs and stuff like that, and they're making about 70, 80 running a 5 to 7 million, 3 to $7 million operation. I'm running this one alone. Since when? A proposal is accepted, I handle everything. Materials, client relations, installation, quality walks, everything.

[George Kamel]

Do you have any commission?

[Caller]

No. And that's kind of another thing. I need advice.

[George Kamel]

Why don't you just move into sales? It sounds like you've got some sales skills.

[Caller]

Yeah, I. I got a bigger picture with my brother to be in the gc, get back into the GC field and this is kind of a step along the way.

[George Kamel]

Okay, well, I mean, you lay out, here's my role, here's how I've been going above and beyond. Here's what I'm bringing to the table, here's how I increase revenue. And if they go well, yeah, yeah, one day. But here's a little two grand raise for all your hard work. Thanks, buddy. I think that's clear that they're not going to value you as much as you feel like you're valued. And it's time to look for a different employer.

[Rachel Cruze]

And you've been there for a year. You've obviously made some major moves to help them grow the business. So I would ask them, hey, what is a. What does a path look like for me to grow my income and have them answered too? Because you know, I mean, it's their Response. They're the ones that are going to make the call. So I would be curious if you just have an open ended question to them of, hey, what's a. A Not only a career path within this company, but for us for salary growth? What does that look like? And if they don't really have a plan or they're not looking for a plan, then you. Then I guess that's a call you're gonna have to make.

[Caller]

Yeah. He's mentioned something about matching for contributions for kids, college and stuff. I'm still waiting to. Nothing's really been happened, you know what I mean? A lot of talk.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. But your one year is when?

[Caller]

In

two, three months.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

How old are you?

[Caller]

25.

[George Kamel]

Okay. If I'm in your shoes, the best ammo you might have is looking at another employer who sees what you've been doing and you go, hey, this is how I help the revenue. Here's what I've been doing. Is there a position here where I can add some value and just see, you might double your pay without having to sit here and negotiate for another two grand raise. But if the writing's on the wall and they're just kind of prom. Empty promises, then I wouldn't be there much longer.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Kamel]

But I mean, it's a simple conversation. Hey, I think I'm adding value to the organization. And if I am, I'd love to talk about how that can show up in my paycheck in a reasonable way.

[Rachel Cruze]

How many, how big is the team? Zach,

[Caller]

I run three crews myself. One is eight man crew, one is a four man crew, and one's a two to three man crew through. But we keep them, two of them fed, six days a week.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And they're happy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, just the, the fact that you're working 80 hours a week making 52,000, that does.

[George Kamel]

Essentially you're making 25 grand, which is like $12 an hour.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So that's where I go. Clearly, if this is what's expected and required of you for this 50 grand, I would not do it anymore.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Kamel]

So if you're as sharp as you say you are, I think you can get hired elsewhere and make more.

[Rachel Cruze]

Have some humility too, in the conversation. You know, you haven't been no guns ablaze in here. Yeah, yeah. And. And I would, I would, I would make it a conversation. And again, the way they run the business, it's a small business. They may not have the structure in place cash flow wise. I mean, who knows what, how healthy the Company is.

[George Kamel]

He's saying, well, I brought it from this much to this much in revenue.

[Rachel Cruze]

I don't know what they're doing with the revenue either. You know what I mean? They're maybe buying a building. I mean, I don't know.

[George Kamel]

Like.

[Rachel Cruze]

So you got to get a big picture, too, of what's going on.

[George Kamel]

Let's get to Jeff in Phoenix. Jeff, how can we help? Get right to the question.

[Caller]

Hey, how are you doing?

[George Kamel]

Great.

[Caller]

Good.

Hey. So my wife and I, we make between 6 to 7,000amonth, given overtime for commissions. We were kind of stressed about money, weren't really sure what was going on with all of it. We downloaded every dollar, been listening for about a month, and threw everything in there and kind of came up with nothing. We are out of debt and kind of the $0 at the end of the budget comes after investing 15%. But we're looking at we'd like to be able to pay off our mortgage early, but we just don't see where we can put any extra money.

[George Kamel]

So you have expenses that rack up to $7,000 a month and that's what you're bringing home.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Kamel]

That's where I would dig in. Sorry, what I was saying, that's. That's the spot to dig in. If you're saying, hey, we have a great income, we don't have any debt. We're investing 15% before this hits our bank account. That tells me there are some high expenses inside of your budget.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much is your mortgage?

[George Kamel]

Just.

[Rachel Cruze]

Jeff?

[Caller]

2,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, that's reasonable. So we got another four to 5,000 left. Where are the majority of that going?

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you have kids? Daycare?

[Caller]

No kids. It's just the two of us. I feel like we live pretty comfortably, but not too comfortably. We. Let's see, my. Every dollar here, I have it open in another tab. We ties 10%, so around 600 utilities and HOA. That's probably an additional 400 there. We both travel over 30 minutes to work, so about 400 on gas, spend 400 on groceries, 200 on eating out. And then this is probably where you're going to tell me to cut back a little bit, but probably 500 on just us. Probably extra things.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. That hasn't added up to five grand.

[George Kamel]

No, I'm still at 4,500. There's still another $2,000 here that's unaccounted for. So what I would do is not just look at what you plan in every dollar, but what your actual bank statement said and you'll Go. Oh, we got to tighten up in a bunch of these areas. And every dollar will help you find that margin. With recommendations. Foreign. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz. The number to call is 888-825-5225. If you want to join the the conversation as we help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Kevin is in Atlanta. What's going on, Kevin?

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going? So my mortgage is about four months behind after my wife just stopped contributing to the household. And we are currently in loss mitigation until May. They're giving us a chance to try to like, catch the mortgage back up. However, I'm still kind of dealing with some financial infidelity from, from her. As far as, you know, neither of us could afford the house without each other. Our mortgage is about $1700 a month and my income is 7 to $800 a week and hers is about 1400 every two weeks. And that's after taxes. So I was just trying to see if you could give me an idea of what I should do as far as the house goes. We do have three kids. Put that in perspective.

[Rachel Cruze]

Did she stop working, Kevin? Is that why.

[Caller]

No. So she's, she's working. Actually, at the beginning of all this, I went through a hiccup with my job. So she works during the day and I was working overnight and my mother went into the icu, so I had to take about a week off because I thought, you know, she was, she was on life support. So I had to go be with her and I ended up losing my job. So it took me about three weeks to find another job. And then when I did, it was during the day. So then child care, I was having to pay for that as well. So then why do you keep saying

[Rachel Cruze]

you were having to pay for it? How about. But we had to pay for it as a household, Right?

[Caller]

There is no. And honestly, that's where I've kind of made a mistake from the very beginning. Everything has been separate from the very beginning, you know, And I believe, I do believe all of her money is going towards the kids, but I think it's a little ridiculous. Like she uses the firm website buy now, pay later. Yes. Yeah. Found out that later. Right. So Christmas, any holidays, birthdays, all on payments. Anything you can think of, it's all. She orders this stuff off Amazon and they just pop it right out of her check.

[George Kamel]

So are you guys living together still?

[Caller]

We do we do live together?

[George Kamel]

So what, what's the dynamic like right now? Because you've been throwing out a lot of words like infidelity and she stopped contributing. Have you guys had a conversation about what's going on?

[Caller]

On

the best of the best that we could, yeah. I mean, I mean she does understand

[Rachel Cruze]

she's going to get foreclosed on if she doesn't choose to contribute. You know what I mean? Like yeah, as a household we have to pay our mortgage. However that gets paid out of any. It doesn't matter who's check, we got to pay the mortgage. So I don't understand what she's expecting is going to happen.

[Caller]

You know, I really don't either. And then I've kind of, I've always been the, the, the bill payer and like the take care of everything, you know. So like I'm the one who kind of worked out the, the financial plan with the, the mortgage company. I've explained it to her the best that I could of of how the loss mitigation works. Basically I think we're on like a forbearance plan to where it just gives us enough time to get caught up to keep.

[George Kamel]

I think you need a foreclosure. I need a sense of urgency here, Kevin. I'd talk with her tonight and say this is on fire. We are about to lose the house. Our kids need a roof over their heads. What are we doing?

[Rachel Cruze]

And the way we've been doing this sucks. This is horrible.

[George Kamel]

Like you venmoing me for the mortgage and then it doesn't come through and now I can't pay the mortgage payment. This is not working. So even if it's just for the kids right now to have some safety and security, she needs to pitch in.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Kamel]

And if she's out of control spending then you need to reroute the money into a bank account that you at least can see.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, that's the, that's the thing that has to happen in the next week or two because you guys have to start, you know, paying back on this. But then overall, Kevin, we can't function like this. You know what I mean? I mean long term in the marriage. And so for. Does she have any urgency to work on money with you and for you guys to be a team? Because always couples that have this, this split of a mindset and such a big topic like money. I just assume you don't have a great marriage.

[Caller]

We definitely do not right now. And I tried to sit down and budget with her and in Fact, I downloaded an app besides Every dollar because our lives are hectic because we have been working opposite shifts. So I'm a great way to effectively communicate financially. There's an app called Honeyd, and it just allows you to view each other's bank accounts. So I know how much she has, she knows how much I have, and it kind of becomes.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's not really getting to the root of the problem. Yeah, I hear you.

[George Kamel]

It's less about visibility. It's more about unity.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Oh, right. And she just.

[George Kamel]

You like that.

[Caller]

She's like, we can budget without knowing where every dollar is going. And I'm like, that's literally the name of. Of Dave's.

[Rachel Cruze]

So

[George Kamel]

it sounds like you guys have a bunch of consumer debt, too.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I. It's. I don't know. To be honest, I don't even know what all debts she has.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, you probably don't.

[George Kamel]

Well, fun homework assignment. You guys both pull your credit reports tonight. You can do it for free. Annualcreditreport.com and you're going to find out, and we're going to say, hey, all cards on the table. What are all the debts we have? We got to clean this mess up. And again, I don't care if you hate each other, but you need to do this for the security of your own family and keep the house.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And then you guys need to have kind of a reset, Kevin, of. Of where you guys want to be, you know, as a couple in the next two, three, four years. You guys need to, I mean, truly have this picture of. This is what I want. This is what. What John Deloney says that this is what I want our home to feel like. What do we want our home to feel like?

[George Kamel]

Do we.

[Rachel Cruze]

We're raising our children in this home. We are in this marriage together. You know, you can make choices to change habits, to change the way you've been doing marriage and completely turn on its head and do the complete opposite. Right. Cause right now it's just chaos and division versus peace and unity. And if that's what you both want working together. Yeah. I would lay out a roadmap for you, you know, and just say, where do we want to be in 24 months? Months? Like in two years, what would the ideal life look like, feel like? And how do we reverse engineer that to decisions that we have to make today? Some of the stuff's on fire, like what George is saying. We got to get the mortgage paid. I mean, there's some of that. That's like, but overall, what does it look like to truly have a healthy marriage where we are a team in this and together, you know, we're making decisions together, we both have input regardless of who brings in the income. This is a household that we have chosen to be a part of. And so when the money hits the account for the household, how are we going to budget it together and out of that creates the unity. But sometimes you have to do those rigorous steps first, you know, to, to get to where you want to go. But that's part of figuring out though, where you even want to be as a, as a couple.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I don't. Is she, has she opted out of this marriage? I mean, you mentioned the word infidelity. I don't know if that was just regarding finance.

[Rachel Cruze]

Financial, I think.

[George Kamel]

Okay, okay. Is that true?

[Caller]

As far as I, as far as I know, it's just financially.

[George Kamel]

Okay, well, you guys make $6,000 take home from what I gathered, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Okay. That is above the average take home pay for a household in America. And you guys are living well below average lives right now. And so that's the reset we need. It's not an attack on her, an attack on you and who's right and who's wrong. It's. We need unity. We make too much to feel this broke. And the, these kids deserve some shelter over their heads. This is stupid to lose the house over being ununified. I wish you the best.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back. From the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near [e-mail] agent. That's ramseysolutions.com.

[George Kamel]

Ann is in Chicago. Up next and welcome to the Rain. Hi.

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call.

[George Kamel]

Absolutely. What's your question today?

[Caller]

So we have three young adult children. Two of them are very responsible and respectful. The third is terrible with money, spends money as fast as he can get it. And he also has a major lying problem. So currently our relationship is very strained.

He's not living with us and he's

not living a life that we can support right now. In the meantime, we are looking to rewrite our wills or set up a revocable living trust. So how can we set this up so if we were to die before he matures or changes direction here, that he would have to demonstrate necessary qualities before receiving his inheritance? And at what point does he simply forfeit his share? And what do we do with that share then? And also, of course, we do not want to be the cause that our

adult children do not get along after we're gone. But we also don't want this gift

that we've worked so hard for to be wasted.

[George Kamel]

You're asking the right questions, and I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. It's not how you picture it. When you imagine being able to bless your family and leave a legacy. And now you can't even trust the child to handle it.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Kamel]

But you're doing the right steps. I mean, a revocable living trust is the move, and you can customize the provisions, and you'll need a strong trustee to actually carry this out. But you can. Can time it all. You can have conditions and say, hey, if he doesn't do xyz, he doesn't get anything. And at that point, it gets split evenly between the two other siblings.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And if that's it. And I would communicate it, it's gonna be really hard, but I would rather him hear that from you all at some level than the reading of the will. You know, if you guys pass away.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

That. And then I would so have a

[Caller]

conversation with all three of them.

[Rachel Cruze]

I would. Yes. Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Let them.

[George Kamel]

Let them get mad at you while you're alive instead of getting mad at the siblings when they had nothing to do with this.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And I would have the conditions. Have someone. Yeah. Whether it's the trustee, whoever it is, that it's not one of your children that has to monitor his behavior, because that could make the relationship really odd. Right. So if there's a good family friend that you trust. But I would not. I would not put one of the siblings in that position because I think that could definitely cause tension, you know, and be very clear on those conditions, too. Right. Not subjective. As clear as you can be is going to be the best. And it is. I'm with George. I'm like, it is so heartbreaking because money is such a magnifying glass. It makes us more of what we already are. And if there's really, you know, horrible habits, things that he's, you know, doing that's damaging himself, and then you put money on that, it's that. Yeah, it's gonna. It's gonna make his life Even worse. Right. Where money is supposed to be a blessing in that. So I think there's definitely some wisdom. And it is very, it's very sad. It's very, very heartbreaking. But I do think there's wisdom in that. And my prayer is that, yeah, he, he wakes up. How old is he?

[Caller]

19.

[Rachel Cruze]

19. Okay. All right. You know, we're all.

[George Kamel]

There's still time.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. I'm glad he's not like 40. That makes me feel better.

[Caller]

Right?

[George Kamel]

He's not too set in his ways.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Kamel]

But, yeah, but you can always change it later.

[Caller]

Being specific, like what could.

[George Kamel]

Here's an example. You could say, hey, there's going to be a sobriety requirement and a debt free requirement, and every month we're going to check your credit score and do a drug test. And if it's clear, you will get $5,000 every month. So you can set it up to be as specific and nuanced as you want. And a good estate attorney can help you set all that up because they've seen it all.

[Caller]

All.

[George Kamel]

They've seen it go wrong. They've seen it go right. And so I'm just giving you an example of how nuanced and specific you can get because it's your money and you can have as much oversight as you want and as much strings attached as you want, especially if you're worried about them. What I wouldn't do is make one of the siblings the trustee because now he becomes the bad guy. And so you want a strong third party, a professional trustee through a company that specializes in this. That way he doesn't get to fight the siblings. They go, hey, we got nothing to do with it and we can't do anything about it.

[Caller]

Yeah, right, right. I understand that.

All right.

[George Kamel]

But good luck. In the meantime, I know it's hard because he's an adult now and he can make adult decisions. And you wish you could just be like, I want the best for you. Change, please. But it might take a little bit more rock bottom to get him to, to have his prodigal son. You know, home returning home moment.

[Caller]

Right.

I understand. Thank you.

[George Kamel]

Absolutely. Man, that's a tough one. All right, Kristen is in Illinois. Up next. Kristen, welcome to the show. Oh, can I hear you, Kristen? Loud and clear.

[Caller]

Can you hear me?

[George Kamel]

Yes. That's better.

[Caller]

Hey. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. So my question is about affording a larger house for my growing family. We live in a pretty small house right now, and financially, we're Doing well, but I feel like I'm really asking my kids to sacrifice too much instead of providing for them.

[George Kamel]

What kind of sacrifices are they making? Are they working the fields all day?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller]

Kind of. We have chickens, but.

[George Kamel]

Oh good, they should be working out there.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, they, I mean, like any kids, they have hobbies. Like my 13 year old really likes to do Legos, but our house is so small and now we have a baby that he really can't enjoy. He can't have most of any of his things inside the house. A lot of their toys that they've had over the years are in the garage and they just. There's not enough room for them really to be normal kids.

[George Kamel]

How many kids do you have?

[Caller]

We have two. We have three now, so three boys.

[George Kamel]

And how many bedrooms?

[Caller]

There is three bedrooms, but we use one as an office.

[George Kamel]

Okay. One of you works from home?

[Caller]

We both work from home. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Okay. And what's the square footage?

[Caller]

We have a thousand and fifty square foot.

[George Kamel]

Okay. So it is tight. I mean, that's less legit. You're not making this up. What would a bigger house cost you guys and could you afford it?

[Caller]

In our area, a bigger house would go easily for $365,000. And I'm honestly not sure if we could afford it. But everyone, I feel like everyone is telling me, hey, you guys just have to pull the trigger and do it because if you don't take any risks, you'll never get anywhere.

[George Kamel]

Everybody doesn't pay your bills. You pay them.

[Rachel Cruze]

And everybody is broke, Kristen.

[George Kamel]

So I wouldn't be asking for their opinion. Truth.

[Rachel Cruze]

No.

[George Kamel]

What I would do is just look at the facts and go, okay, our income is $10,000 a month.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. How much?

[George Kamel]

So therefore we can afford $2,500 on a mortgage.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. What's your income a month?

[Caller]

My husband makes 80,000 a year. I used to make 80,000 a year too, but since the baby's been born and really haven't been able to do much.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So it's going to be that way until he's in kindergarten. At least two, three more years.

[Rachel Cruze]

What hits every month with just your husband's income? Is it around 7,000? Yeah, probably around that. Okay. So, yeah, I mean I would be. Yeah. Looking for a home. And you'll have to do the Math. On a 15 year fixed rate mortgage where the payment is no more than 25% of your take home pay, what could you sell your house for today? How much would your house go for?

[Caller]

It would go for 165 to 180.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And how much you guys owe?

[George Kamel]

Want it?

[Caller]

We only owe about 60,000. We've run a 15 year fixed mortgage at 2% flat.

[George Kamel]

Okay. So you could walk away with over 100 grand to put down on the next house.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. And if you guys had any. Yeah, we're on a $2,000 mortgage. You'll have to see. Yeah. With that all pri. You know, you can do the Ramsey mortgage [e-mail] and put in with the down payment and everything. And yeah, there's a chance you guys definitely could, but I went on just a whim like, oh, yeah, just you don't. You got to take risks. No, you don't. No, we have facts that you get to make really wise, mature decisions off of because you have numbers, you know, and so let's be wise with that and make sure that again, that payment's no more than 25% of your take home pay. But I think, yeah, if, if it all works, I would definitely, I would upgrade, get some more room.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And he works from home most of the time.

He works in an office at his business like one week out of the month.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

So. But the other thing we consider is we send our kids to private school and that's 15,000 a year.

[George Kamel]

Okay. So that's eaten up a good chunk of your budget as well.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So you got to figure out, okay, let's do a budget. And yeah, we got about, you know, 1100 going out to private school. We have this new mortgage. We're right, theoretically. Here's what we need to spend on food. I mean. Yeah, you got to map it out. Cuz sometimes you can't have it all. Right. I mean, you might, I'm not sure, depending on how the numbers work, you might be able to.

[George Kamel]

It may be we, we can't have all three. We can't have a big house on a single income and send the kids to private school. We get to choose two. And so then you get resourceful and go, all right, we're going to work, work this out. He gets a corner of the house or he goes to the office more and we free up a bedroom, which gives us more room for now. Then we're going to save up and upgrade when the time is right. So I wish you the best. There's hard decisions here, but I think you guys can make it.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many times have you started January saying, this is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control. But then months Go by and you still feel broke. You work too hard to keep living like that. Look, there's only one way to move the needle on your finances this year. You've got to have a plan. So start by downloading every dollar. Every dollar is way more than our world class budgeting app. In 15 minutes, we'll build you a personalized plan to free up extra margin in your budget and use it to beat debt and build wealth. You'll find thousands of dollars on average just the first day and you'll get new steps and new lessons every day that help you stay on track and create unstoppable momentum. Don't waste one more day feeling broke and stressed. Get your plan in just 15 minutes by downloading every day. Dollar for free today.

[George Kamel]

Hey, if you're debt free, the Live like no one else cruise is your chance to celebrate. You can hang out with all of us Ramsey personalities, Dave Ramsey for new sessions on building wealth, live episodes of our shows and the world's largest debt free. Scream it. That one's burned in my memory. Rachel. So fun just being on a cruise ship with like thousands of people surrounding on the deck.

[Rachel Cruze]

The amount of people, even though we say you don't have to be on baby step seven necessarily, but the amount of people that have paid off their homes that were on.

[George Kamel]

Right. I want to say it was over half.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, it was shocking, awesome. It was so fun.

[George Kamel]

If you are baby step four and above, this is the cruise for you to mark the moment, the journey, the progress. You can secure your cabin with a $600 deposit and join us in the Western Caribbean March of 2027. So you've got a lot of time to plan to book. So get that cabin secured. They're going fast. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramseysolutions.comevents to book your cabin today. Emma is in Wilmington, North Carolina. Up next. Emma, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call today.

[George Kamel]

Absolutely, absolutely. What's going on?

[Caller]

So I'm a little bit of a situation. So me and my husband, we both own businesses and we're both pretty, I guess entrepreneurial, I guess you can say. And we keep on having disagreements about how we choose to particularly how I choose to invest in my business and how I choose to spend my money. How do I choose to do like in particularly invest into my business. And I just feel like humans. He's always micromanaging me about every single thing that I do for my business while like for me, while he's running his business. I'm just kind of, honey, I trust you. But when it comes to, like, sort of my turn, he's always kind of in there and just. It's making, like, it's making hard for me to make all these decisions that I feel like I should be making

[Rachel Cruze]

for my business because he doesn't think. Because there's. I mean, is it. Is it like. It's a conversation and he gets excited because he loves small business, and he's like, oh, I'm gonna look at the numbers and talk to you about it. Where you feel like he's being controlling or that he doesn't trust you or what. What's the. What's the feeling?

[Caller]

It's like he says that, hi. Like, I trust you in it, but I just feel like I should be there because I guess he says he does trust me, but I feel like he doesn't guess. He's always, like. Like, doubling down on my decisions. He's like, is this. Are you sure that this is what you need to do do?

[George Kamel]

Are you asking him for advice?

[Caller]

Into advice, and particularly how I choose to, like, invest into my business.

[George Kamel]

What do you mean by invest in the business? You keep mentioning that.

[Caller]

By, like, getting, like, ads or, like, advertisements. Like, I need that to grow my business, and he just sees it as a waste of money.

[George Kamel]

Okay. And so you're not going into debt for this? It's not a values issue. It's just. Just I have one way of doing it, he has another way of doing it.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Are your businesses connected or related in any way?

[Caller]

No. So we just recently split my. All of my income and all my expensive, like, expenses for my business, like, completely, like, out of our, like, separate. Like, we made a separate account for all of my stuff, but he's still running his business from our personal.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, yeah. Y' all need two separate business accounts. Accounts. You don't need to. You don't need to co. Mingle a business running a business in your personal. Checking out of the business.

[Caller]

Like, the fact that I am, like. I guess you could say, like, more legit. Like, I have all my papered files, like, everything filed and everything in order, while he's, like, also kind of starting out.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

It's not, like, official. Official yet, but he's still doing it. You know, he's.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I still. Yeah, I would go get it. Just a different. Another checking account. Right. To be running the business out of, just so that it doesn't all get tangled up. Yeah. That. And then as far as him giving you his opinion, I think that's just a, that's a communication, you know, issue in my opinion of, hey, I don't like the way that you're stepping in. I would, I would love to know your thoughts because I think you're smart and you know, I mean, if you think that, hopefully you do, you know, I would love to hear what you have to say. But I'm, but at the end of the day I'm probably going to make, make these different decisions because I'm going to choose to do it this way or that way. And it's not an immoral thing like what George was saying. It's just this is what I'm going to choose to do. And he, yeah. Should be supportive of that. Unless it's like a horrible decision. But so far.

[George Kamel]

Unless it's hurting the household.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And damaging the income severely. But I think it's fair to say, hey, I'm open to advice. I'm just not looking for oversight. I need space to lead this business and if I make a couple mistakes here or there that are non fatal, I'm okay with that. And we just have different ways of approaching this. So unless I specifically ask for strategy, I'm not looking for that unsolicited advice. But I would love your support and I offer the same to you. How would he respond to that?

[Caller]

We kind of just have this same conversation like every like few weeks out, like we had this conversation. We're like, okay, like I'll kind of like back off and. And then we like to be really transparent about how we choose to make decisions and what kind of big like money decisions we make. And then it just kind of come, comes back up where he says, well like what is like your return on that? And I'm like, well the return is not guaranteed because it's like, it's like advertisement, you know.

[George Kamel]

And what's the nature of his business? What's the nature of the business he's running?

[Caller]

So he's in like selling cars and like parts and all that stuff.

[George Kamel]

Okay. And he's just getting started. What is your household income?

[Caller]

That's the thing we don't have. It's different every single week. It mostly like depends on what he sells, what I can sell.

[George Kamel]

And what are you selling?

[Caller]

I do like weddings. I do like floral and decor. So I'm not guaranteed to look out until like certain amount.

[George Kamel]

It's a long term play for you because you're talking about weddings that are booked a year or two from now that you're trying to. To get on the books?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Okay, well, do you guys have consistent income outside of that? Are you both working other jobs or is this it?

[Caller]

No, I just quit my job a few weeks ago, probably because I wasn't getting enough hours and they were not willing to give me more hours. And he quit his job to pursue this.

[George Kamel]

So what are you guys making in a given week or month?

[Caller]

In a given month, we could be lucky if we could pay anywhere from two to seven grand.

[George Kamel]

That's quite the range. I'm just wondering what's at the root of this. Is there fear in his mind of, hey, are we going to be okay? And is this business going to succeed? Are we going to be able to hit our financial goals this month? If you don't run this business how I think you should run it. So I would get to the root of what his true concern is. I don't think he's just like a marketing nerd who's like, well, I just think you should run ads this way. To Rachel's point, it wasn't out of excitement of him wanting to nerd out. It was, you're doing it wrong.

[Caller]

It's more of like, he thinks I should not do any advertisement and no, like, marketing at all. That I should just be like, just do your. Like, do what you do and, like, orders will come in, you know? Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's just different philosophy on how to run a business. But what I would worry about him is that you guys may make two grand in a month, and he quit his job for something that's not even official, that he hasn't, quote, unquote, filed papers for yet.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

That makes me a little nervous. Does it?

[George Kamel]

You sounds like he should focus on his own business right now.

[Caller]

I understand where it's like when it comes to sales and cars, where it's like kind of, you're not really guaranteed to sell, but the income is, like, decent. We have a lot saved up. We have the flexibility.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, good, good, good. As long as you guys are in a good spot. Yeah. At this point, that's just a different way to run a business. And I would. I would just tell them, yeah, I don't. I don't need the thought. It's just. It's creating too much conflict. So I'm going to go over here and run it this way. And if it's not, if it doesn't grow in five months, let's reevaluate together.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. And just reset the conversation and say, hey, we need to reset on the values that we both have for this household, for our money, and for our business. As long as we are aligned on the values and the principles, the process and in which way we run the business, it doesn't matter. And if things go south, you're gonna go, hey, listen, I need some help here. The ads aren't working. What do you think we should do? And that's wise to have that counsel. You know, you need to support each other. And you can do the same for his business, too. But it's not out of a lack of trust and micromanaging. It is a truly. I want to see you win. And when you win, we all win. And right now, it almost feels competitive. I don't know if he's jealous of your business because it's more successful than his right now or what's going on on. But I think you need to get to the root of it. I don't think we've cracked it yet. I wish you the best, Emma. These are. These are not fun conversations to have, but they're worth having. And maybe this isn't a season where he needs to be running this business. Maybe you guys do need some more consistent income and he goes and gets a job selling cars and you run this for now, and maybe another season he gets to run a business and you go do something else. I don't know what that looks like for you guys, but being on the same page is a great first step. Okay, picture this. You sit down to do your taxes, but instead of stressing out, you're actually ahead of the game and filing with an affordable software that makes your computer shoot confetti when you're done. Okay, not that last part, but Ramsey SmartTax does make filing easy and doesn't make your bank account cry. Ramsey SmartTax is 100% accurate software that's honest about its pricing and is backed by a company who's been in the business for over 50 years. So go to ramseysolutions.com smarttax tax to take advantage of early bird pricing and stress free filing. That's ramseysolutions.com smarttax. Our scripture of the day, 2nd Chronicles 15:7. But as for you, be strong and do not give up, for your work shall be rewarded. Dwayne Johnson said, be humble, hungry, and always be the hardest worker in the room. I love wise words from the Rock.

[Rachel Cruze]

I love the Rock. He's one of my favorites.

[George Kamel]

He's likable.

[Rachel Cruze]

He is. I know. Well done. Good quote.

[George Kamel]

D is in Wilmington, Delaware, Up Next. D, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

I just got a life insurance inheritance because my husband passed away in November, so.

[George Kamel]

Sorry.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm sorry.

[George Kamel]

How old was he?

[Caller]

44.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh.

[George Kamel]

Oh.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you, do you guys have kids?

[Caller]

We do. A 17 year old and a 14 year old.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wow. D, I'm so sorry. Oh, my God. Gosh.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruze]

He had life insurance, though, through his work.

[Caller]

He didn't have it privately, but anyhow, there's $150,000 that was in his life insurance that I did get to collect. He had some 401k that went into my 401k and that left me with a pretty good amount. So I have like 900,000 overall.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, good.

[George Kamel]

Okay. How old are you?

[Caller]

54.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so anyway, I can't afford the mortgage by itself, but because I have kids, I have survivor's benefit that's going to come to me until my son turns 18 and graduates. So for like the next year and a half, I should be okay with making payments on the house.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

But then I lose that and then it's just my daughter.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And so I think I would have to pull from something. So I don't know if I should use $150,000 and put some of it in to the mortgage, like to help pay off the house or should I invest it? I don't know what to do with it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. How much is left? How much is left on the house?

[Caller]

237.

[Rachel Cruze]

230. Okay. And financially, do you guys. Do you have consumer debt? No, no debt.

[Caller]

I don't have anything but house.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Okay. And what kind of savings do you have that's not investments or retirement?

[Caller]

I have about 30,000 just in savings.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, perfect. Just like an emergency fund.

[Caller]

Yeah. Most of our money went to his medical stuff, so I couldn't put more away.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And in your income, what are you making a year?

[Caller]

100.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. I'm just thinking I probably would ride out. I think I would just keep that 150 in probably a high yield savings account right now and with the survivor's benefit, ride that out for a year and then I would probably plan on pulling some of that 150 until you're able to pay off the house because you'll have probably after. If you applied the whole 150, you'd have 80 grand left on the house. And that feels doable to me.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. What's your margin like right now with just your income and the survivor's benefit?

[Caller]

What's my what.

[George Kamel]

How much margin do you have at the end of each month? How much money left over after paying all your bills?

[Caller]

I don't really know because it just started. I should be getting. And I, I took a leave of absence for two months, so I don't really know, but I'm. I think. I think I will have at least $1,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And how much is the mortgage a month?

[Caller]

22.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. But you'll probably have a thousand after mortgage and everything is paid off. But when that survivor benefit is over, you'll have 2,200 that you got to pay per month, Correct?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And when my daughter leaves for sure.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

The other thing you can look into with a financial advisor is the rule of 55, which would allow you to access those. The retirement account, which could help you to knock out the house. Oh. So that's one other option to look into. And you can reach out to a smartvestor [e-mail] and just kind of walk through all the variables here to be strategic because you have to be. It wasn't a $1.5 million life insurance policy. And so if you're trying to make this money, like last for a long time or at least put it to good use, the truth is you're going to have to work for the foreseeable future. I mean, you have that 900,000. If you work for another seven years and just let that money sit, it could double. So that's the good news.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So you will be out of the woods soon enough, but just the next few years. It might feel a little bit tight, but I'm not concerned about you losing the house or not being able to make the mortgage payment as long as you can keep up that six figure income. Income is that pretty stable?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Okay, great. Then I would. I like Rachel's plan of just letting it sit in a high yield savings for now until you know that you know the next step. Because once you put it in the house, it's kind of locked up in there. And I love the idea of you getting rid of that mortgage because that makes retirement and covering your bills a whole lot easier. So that is still the goal. It's just what's the best way to get there and when?

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. That's good. I have also. He had a Roth IRA that's about $20,000. And I haven't done any. Anything with it because I didn't know if I could. I have some like, we haven't Done anything in the house because he was sick for so long. So there's like trees that need to be taken down. There's, you know, masonry that needs to be. I need to do dishwasher. Like, I didn't know if I could use that 20,000. I don't know if I should. I don't know what to do with that. Roth ira.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Because it now is an inherited ira.

[Caller]

I've done nothing with it, but it's an option to be an inheritance.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. And you do have savings outside of that that you could use to cash flow some of these things around the house?

[Caller]

I have $30,000 in savings.

[George Kamel]

That's your emergency fund?

[Caller]

That's my emergency fund, yeah.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Yeah. I wouldn't touch the emergency fund for these, but I would try to cash flow it. Even if it's out of your future income. I love the idea of that money continuing to grow tax free if you don't absolutely need it.

[Caller]

Okay, so then should I just make it into my. Do I make it inherited or do I put it in my own? Because I have a Roth IRA myself and I believe I could roll that into there.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Again, that's a great question for the smartvestor pro, because there are going to be differences with the required drawdowns from an inherited IRA versus rolling it over. So if you are able to roll it over, there might be some upside to that of you not needing to draw it down immediately. But again, it's $20,000. It's not the bulk of your net worth. But I would just be more hesitant because that's all tax free money. And so we want to just protect that as long as we can to let it grow tax free. Free.

[Caller]

Okay. Well, they said. Okay, so you. That's. My goal is to keep it growing tax free. Okay. Because they did say if I took it out, I wouldn't have the penalty, but that I would still use it as income.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm so sorry you're going through this. You're asking the right questions. D. It's. It's not something anyone ever pictures themselves having to go through.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And usually we say too, with any bulk of money, after a tragedy, just pause for a year, don't make any big moves. So there, you know, even that life insurance policy not making a big move of putting it right into the house. House. Just wait a year. And I think a lot of more clarity will come because you're still right in the middle of. Of new grief. I mean, it's just been it's been just a few months for you, so

[George Kamel]

teenagers are at home. Well, if you need a good high yield savings account D, you can jump on to Fairwinds.org Ramsey. They've been great partners with us and they have an awesome smart bundle just for our fans. And that's a great place to park that 150 until you know what to do next. Yeah, and good reminder for life insurance.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's what I was going to say, George. You know, you guys, I mean, he thankfully had something through his work, but we, we really do Recommend people get 10 to 12 times your annual income. And a term policy. Don't do whole life, do a term policy. If you're a stay at home parent, half a million dollars or even 700,000 on you because people depend upon the work that you're doing or the income that you're bringing in. And you know, in this case, again, I don't want to fault them by any means, but, you know, that'd be a million dollar term policy, you know, if, you know, if there were, or I guess depending on what he was making, but if he was making 100 grand too, you know, so it just changes the dynamic. So much of a grieving situation when you don't have to worry about money on top of it. And if you're healthy, you guys, and if you're, I mean, any age, but especially if you're younger, younger, it is so inexpensive. So inexpensive. And so Xander's great because they shop so many different companies to get you the best rate. And a lot of them, you don't

[George Kamel]

even need a medical exam. You can do it all online, which is awesome.

[Rachel Cruze]

And as your family grows, you guys, and your income grows. Winston, I just had to do this probably about two years ago. We looked up, we're like, oh my gosh, it's been a few years, you know, and our income has grown over time. So we got to make sure that we're matching, you know.

[George Kamel]

So you might get an extra policy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

For 10 years, a shorter time span.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. So y' all look at, I mean, yeah, life insurance is one of the best ways to say a lot of

[George Kamel]

times because you have it through your employer, you go, well, I'm good. I have it through my employer. But that might be one to two times your income. You need 10 to 12 if you want to actually be able to live off of this and invest it and live off the growth. So get it done today. Let this be a sober reminder. Xander.com or you can call 800-356-4282. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books.