"My Husband Destroyed Our Finances, Should I Leave Him?"

Summary

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The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: "My Husband Destroyed Our Finances, Should I Leave Him?"
Air Date: December 11, 2025
Host(s): Dave Ramsey with co-host Rachel Cruze
Podcast Theme: Tackling financial mistakes, taking control of your money, and answering real-life money questions with practical, tough love and empathy.

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Episode Overview

On this episode, Dave Ramsey and daughter/co-host Rachel Cruze take live calls from listeners facing serious financial challenges. A major focus is Alyssa’s emotional call regarding marital and money troubles – the episode’s main theme centers around the consequences of mismanaged finances in relationships and the path to regaining control together, not separately. Throughout, the hosts stress practical steps, shared accountability, and real talk about what it takes to build lasting financial peace.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Caller Alyssa: Marital & Financial Breakdown

(Segment begins approx. 00:37)

• Situation: Alyssa feels overwhelmed; her husband has managed the bills poorly, resulting in $30–50k in debt, repo of her car, ruined credit, and constant pressure from her mother-in-law over late payments.

• Emotional Climate: Alyssa is at a "breaking point," considering bankruptcy, divorce, or taking over finances herself.

• Key Details:

  • Husband makes ~$120k/year working long hours; Alyssa earns $32k.
  • Alyssa admits to “standing on the sidelines,” assuming her husband was managing things as planned.
  • Family expenses exceed income due to poor tracking, not intentional malice.

• Ramsey's Response:

  • Direct accountability: “I don’t know that your husband has ruined your finances. I think the two of you have ruined your finances.” (04:32)

  • Practical Steps:

    • Both must get fully involved—no more blaming or sideline observing.
    • Get precise on household numbers: “By the end of the day, you’re going to know it’s $1,532.46 freaking cents.” (06:40)
    • Cut all non-essentials until bills are under control (no eating out, no travel ball for the kids, etc.).
    • Use tools (EveryDollar app, Ramsey coach) for support and accountability.

  • Metaphor: “You both threw your hands up and said, ‘Jesus take the wheel,’ and then you’re shocked that the car went in the ditch.” (08:30)

  • Key Insight: Don’t fight each other; join forces and tackle the “real enemy” (debt/out-of-control expenses) together.

  • Important Quotes:

    • “You can't blame anybody else anymore. The two of you together have both got to put your feet on this together, not throwing rocks at each other and join hands, join arms and fight the battle.” (06:40)
    • “No one should be doing this [managing finances] by themselves when you're married. Period. Especially in a crisis.” (18:08)

Action Steps for Alyssa:

• Itemize income and debts with her husband, using precise figures.
• Prioritize essentials: food, utilities, housing, transportation.
• Both must sit down together, even if it means giving up other activities.
• Seek outside help for structure and follow-through.

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2. Financial Crisis Management

(Begins ~10:30)

• When overwhelmed: step back, breathe, remove drama. “When you drop into lizard brain fight or flight mode…there’s no critical thinking skills there.” (10:45)
• Order of Operations:
  1. Food (groceries, not restaurants)
  2. Utilities (paid on time)
  3. Shelter (rent/mortgage)
  4. Transportation
  5. Clothing (no new buying if unnecessary)
• Core Message: Manage needs before wants; drama and denial fuel money problems.
• “When you are warm and fed, your brain works better. You can calm down.” (12:14–12:21)

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3. Teamwork and Trust in Marriage

• Both partners MUST be engaged—no matter who is “better with details.”
• If trust was broken, both should “sit down at the computer” and handle bill payments together for a season. (18:13)
• Delegation comes only after “competency and integrity” are established. (19:04)
• Dave’s example: after his bankruptcy, spouse involvement became compulsory. “Two sets of eyes looking at everything.” (15:07)

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4. Other Notable Calls & Segments

Rental Property Headaches & Short Sale Advice

(Braden, 23:42–31:00)

• 21-year-old caller underwater on a rental property due to a bad deal with an unreliable mentor.
• Dave’s advice: Start short sale process, remove tenants, avoid foreclosure if possible; never co-sign or use partnerships for investments.
• Memorable line: “Man, y’all just stack stupid on top of stupid, didn’t you?” (27:05)

Family Estate Dilemma

(Amanda, 32:53–40:14)

• Ample inheritance; dispute over nursing home payments to extended family; caller’s mother reluctant to increase contribution despite significant wealth.
• Dave: “This is not a math issue. This is an emotion issue.” (34:24)
• Advice: honor deceased father’s implied wishes; explain decision to mom gently, but ensure financial care continues as intended.

Generosity While in Debt

(Courtney, 117:54–121:52)

• Caller wants to give more despite $33k in debt.
• Dave: Serve via time, not just money while in debt; discipline now creates greater capacity for generosity later.
• “Live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else.”

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5. Overarching Ramsey Principles Highlighted

• You must KNOW your numbers—no “I think” or “about” allowed.
• Both spouses are equally responsible for financial health—no spectators or victims.
• Debt is always the enemy—do not take on more to escape current trouble.
• Prioritize needs, cut wants, and remember: “Normal is broke and common sense is weird.”
• Don’t fall for the “affordability crisis” narrative—avoid credit cards, large banks, and car loans.
• Inheritance and windfalls: use for solid debt repayment, not lifestyle inflation.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You have to get your hands in the mess, reach up to your elbows in the mess, and the two of you together…” — Dave Ramsey (13:57)
• “I'm not trying to raise great kids. We’re trying to raise kids that become great adults.” — Dave Ramsey (68:56) & other sections
• “Both have a responsibility to do it.” — Rachel Cruze (19:54)
• “Live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else.” — Dave Ramsey (throughout, esp. 121:52)
• “A short sale is your way out. Cleaning out the tenants is part of that program.” — Dave Ramsey (30:10)
• “Consistency, not income.” — Baby Steps Millionaire Guest, Carol (111:00)
• “I came from Colombia with two rolling bags and $90 in my pocket.” — Eugene, Baby Steps Millionaire (110:40)
• “The battle is not inside your house. The battle's outside your house. And the two of you need to fight the enemy together.” — Dave Ramsey (06:40)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:37 — Alyssa’s call: Introduction to her marital & financial crisis.
• 03:33 — Discussion on income vs. spending and lack of financial visibility.
• 04:32 — “I think the two of you have ruined your finances.”
• 06:40 — Time to stop blaming; know your exact numbers; join forces.
• 10:30–13:00 — Ramsey’s “crisis money” protocol and cooling down emotional responses.
• 18:08–18:58 — “No one should be doing this by themselves when you’re married.”
• 19:28 — Delegation: only with “competency and integrity.”
• 23:42 — Braden in Phoenix: underwater rental; lessons on short sales and never co-signing.
• 32:53 — Amanda, estate dilemma: Navigating generosity, family dynamics, elderly care.
• 117:54–121:52 — Courtney’s question on giving while in debt; using service, not just money.

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Tone and Style

• Direct, honest, sometimes blunt—classic Ramsey “tough love.”
• Empathetic but never lets people off the hook for inaction, enabling, or denial.
• Encouraging, practical, and action-based with real-life anecdotes (personal and from past callers).
• Occasional humor and self-deprecation to break tension.
• Co-host Rachel Cruze balances with gentle reinforcement and personal insight.

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Summary Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in facing financial chaos head-on—especially in marriage. The pivotal message: Taking control is a couple’s job, not the burden of one partner. Knowing your exact numbers, prioritizing needs, and refusing to dwell in victimhood are essential. Listeners leave with clear steps to dig out of chaos, build trust, and eventually reach a position to serve others generously. The Ramsey Show, as always, cuts through the fog of excuses with humor, compassion, and a relentless push toward accountability and hope.

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Transcript

[A]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey network and the Fairwinds credit union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruze Ramsey personality number one best selling author and my daughter is my co host today. Thank you, thank you for joining us. Alyssa is in Indianapolis. Merry Christmas, Alyssa.

[B]

Merry Christmas.

[A]

What's up?

[B]

I have a question. My husband has basically ruined us financially and I'm at a breaking point to where I need to know if we need to file bankruptcy, if I should take over the bills, if I do, how to start because I never have done them or if I should just walk away because I'm just overwhelmed and I can't take all the phone calls and all the stuff that going on. Like I'm to the point where either I'm going to leave him or file bankruptcy or I need help. I don't know.

[A]

Wow.

So do you know what is going on? Like how much debt you have?

[B]

I would say probably close to 30 to 50,000 in debt. I'm not certain exactly how much. Like I said, he has always done the bills. But my breaking point was last year when he got my car repoed. I looked out the window, I get my money goes in the bank account every week from our pay, my paycheck and my car was being repoed and he panicked and had his mother cosign the car was in my name. So he ruined my credit and he had his mother co sign. Well now his mother has co signed on a vehicle for me.

[A]

And that was a year ago.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Why did you not get involved? And the two of you sit down where you knew what the flip was going on from that point forward. Why did you still stand back?

[B]

I tried, I tried to get involved for a little while. We had everything written down, what was going in or what was going out. I was telling him we need to pay this bill, we need to pay this bill. And it slipped away from me when my kids were in bowl season and I was gone six days a week till 10 o' clock at night. And I just assumed he was doing what we planned. And I let go again. And then now his mother is contacting me like the car payment's one day late, pay it today. Like it has to be paid on the day it's due. And I'm like, I am so done. We talked about this a year ago. What is going on?

[C]

Okay, so it's more, Alyssa, that he. He says he's going to do something and he doesn't. And do you know where you guys are? Like. Like when you're. You say, we're 30 to $50,000 in debt. Have you had him pull his credit report? Pull your credit report to at least see. Is he lying on that end? Because I'm just wondering if he's not going through with that.

[B]

I don't think he's. Yeah, I don't think he's lying on that end. I'm assuming that's what it is, because I know basically about what's coming out and what's due. I just don't know when he pays it and if he pays it. I think he's gotten so behind that. Everything's got a late.

[C]

And is it. What's he said? Is he saying why. Why is he late?

[B]

He just says that the money's not there, like. But what I don't understand is he gets. He works 50 to 60, 80 hours a week.

[A]

And what I don't understand is why you're still sitting on the sidelines and haven't gotten involved.

[B]

I. Like I said, I got really good.

[A]

At standing back, throwing rocks at him. And you have no idea when. All you got to do is walk in there and sit down with him and the two of you get out of yellow pad and figure this out.

[B]

I've tried.

[A]

No, you haven't. I had ball six days a week. Bull crap. Your household's falling apart. Kids can't go to ball if the household's falling apart. You sit down and get out a yellow pad and the two of you work on.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

So why haven't you done that?

[B]

Because I don't know where to start. I've never done the bills, so I don't know.

[A]

I want you to take them over. I want the two of you to sit down and figure out where it's going. Because it's pretty simple. You both have an income coming in, and in your mind it's not. We don't think he's wasting it. It sounds like there's not enough money coming in to pay the bills.

[B]

It does sound like that.

[C]

Do you know Alyssa?

[A]

So I don't know that your husband has ruined your finances. I think the two of you have ruined your finances.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

No, I don't think you need to divorce him. Poor guy. He's trying to carry this whole thing by himself, and he doesn't know what he's doing either.

You're both lost, and so yeah. You guys have got.

[C]

And there's obviously a level of broken trust if your husband says he's going to do something and he doesn't though. And doesn't. And doesn't. And doesn't say, hey, this, this car payment can't be paid. We have no money. I need help. Right. If, if he's just taking over and not bringing her in at all, which again, Alyssa, you, you have to be the one doing it too. You may have to be the one pushing the buttons. You may have to be the one that actually is paying the car payment and is paying the bills for a season.

[A]

If I were to just interview you guys separate from this whole situation, who would we say that the detail oriented person is? Him or you?

[B]

I would say it would be me.

[A]

Yeah. Your underwear drawers folded.

[B]

His, isn't I Correct. He's so busy working. It's not that he's a bad person.

[A]

What's he working on him like that? He was working at the job 50 to 60 hours a week. Okay, so what, what does he make on.

[B]

He probably makes about 120,000 a year.

[A]

Okay, so number one thing is how much do you need to take probably out of the equation by the. Before the sun goes down, you need to know what your husband makes. Exactly. Okay, what do you make?

[B]

I make about 32,000 a year.

[A]

Okay, so we have. Let's pretend that that's correct. And we have $152,000 a year to work with.

[D]

Right?

[A]

Okay. Yeah. Now then, let's start spending that. The first thing we buy is food each month. The second thing we buy is lights and water. And those are all paid on time. There's no reason they can't be paid on time. How much is your house payment?

[B]

It's, I think around 1500.

[A]

Okay, no thinking anymore. You need to know.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Not around. By the end of the day, you're going to know. It's 1500 and $32.46 freaking cents. You need to know exactly, because you can't blame anybody else anymore. The two of you together have both got to put your feet on this together, not throwing rocks at each other and join hands, join arms and fight the battle. The battle is not inside your house. The battle's outside your house. And the two of you need to fight the enemy together. Okay, so we're gonna pay the house payment exactly 15, $32.46. And what is your car payment with? Pray tell, the freaking mother in law?

[B]

I have to estimate because I don't know. I think it's like 750. I don't know.

[A]

Good Lord. Okay, and what is this car?

[B]

It's a minivan.

[A]

Okay, how many kids have you got?

[B]

Have four. But my daughter's deceased, so I have three living.

[A]

Okay, three. All right, and so we need to find out exactly what the car payment is, exactly what the house payment is. We've got. We got the money to pay the house payment, the car payment, and with $152,000 to work with, give or take, we have the money to pay the bills that we've listed so far and buy groceries. You don't have the money to eat out. You don't have the money to do Travel ball. You don't have the money to do any of that stuff yet. Right now all we're doing is just trying to keep the bills paid because the stress level is so high that everything's melting down and we've got to stop that. Okay, so this is how you're going to do it. You're just going to simply walk through it, the two of you together. We'll put you into every dollar and we'll put you with a Ramsey coach and get somebody to help you and hold your hand and walk you through this. But I don't think this guy's done anything wrong any more than you have. Both of you just threw your hands up and said, jesus, take the wheel. And then you're shocked that the car went in the ditch. And so you've got to grab the wheel, hold on to it. Both of you go. I just hired you for $152,000, and I'm going to pay you to straighten your mess up and you're going to get your life back.

[C]

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[D]

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[C]

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[D]

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[C]

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[A]

Okay, when you are in cris with your money, here's what you do.

Take four steps back.

You're too close.

And you can't see the forest for the trees, meaning you have a tree branch stuck in your nose and you can't see past it. And then the drama builds up in your head and you spin out. And when you spin out, you are of no value for critical thinking because when you drop into lizard brain fight or flight mode, which is where our last caller was, that means you've slipped everything into the front side of your brain and there's no critical thinking skills there. And cleaning up a financial mess, ascertaining where the financial mess came from so that it doesn't come back is a critical thinking process. So it requires that you take a deep breath, take a cold shower two steps back, and start going, okay, I'm gonna pretend someone hired me to talk to these people, and these people happen to be me. And I'm going to start walking that through. Then the first thing you do is you make sure that the family has money for food, not restaurants. Food. Restaurants aren't food. Restaurants are entertainment food. And that the family has the lights and the water and the gas bill paid. The heat is on 99.9% of the situations you have the money to do those two things.

When you are warm and fed, your brain works better.

You can calm down.

When you're warm and fed. And you know that you are not going to be homeless because the next step is you pay the rent or the house payment on time or early. Almost everyone has the money to do those three things.

Then we start getting to transportation. So when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was in the eighth grade, we took a class called civics. And in civics, they taught you the difference between needs and wants.

And the basics of life are food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. You take care of those things. Food, shelter, clothing. You've got enough clothing. Shut up. Transportation and utilities. So the lights are on, the food is on the table. We have a car to go to work. We keep the income coming in. Now, the rest of it is a monopoly game that we might be losing, but it's not life or death. And we all have this little drama queen in our head that Spins out and turns us into drama queens. And we turn everything into life or death. And it's not life or death, but we turn it into that. I do it, you do it well.

[C]

And when you watch your car being repoed outside, like, that's not fun. Right? I mean, like, you know, there's reasons.

[A]

When your mother in law is calling you, there's all these things happening. But. But still. Okay, that's transportation.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

But why was the car payment not pay when they make $150,000?

[E]

No, I'm with you.

[A]

I know. Thousand dollars a year. And you can't say for two years this has been going on and I'm standing on the sidelines, only griping about it. No, you get your hands in the mess, you reach up to your elbows in the mess, and the two of you together, and it's not, I'm gonna take over the bills. It's like, he can't do this for whatever reason or won't do it by himself.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so we've got to work together.

[C]

Yes. And I'll just say what goes on in my head when I listen to her is, I mean, the compassion I, you know, you get on them, which is great. And I'm like, oh, gosh, is this everything? Okay, But, But I tell myself if the reverse called, which does happen, and there's a spouse calling and saying, I, I have been trying to do this. I can't. We don't have enough money here. I. I can't keep my head above water. And you're like, well, where's your husband? Where's your wife? I don't know. She won't, she won't be engaged in it. We would yell at the spouse that's not on the phone.

[E]

Do you know what I'm saying?

[C]

So to that point, yeah, both.

[A]

Both have to be involved.

[C]

Have to be involved. Right. And so I think this whole idea of just. But it's not putting it all on one person, though. This is unfair to that.

[A]

It's not all on Hearn. It's not all on him.

[C]

Right, that's right. That's right.

[A]

And so, I mean, here's the thing. When the Ramsey's went broke, I was 28 years old. Rachel was a brand new baby. When we filed bankruptcy, 100% of it was my fault. I was doing real estate deals that Sharon hadn't even seen. I wasn't hiding them from her. She's just like, whatever you want to do, honey. And I did. And I built a house of cards and it fell. And, you know, from that day forward, she's been involved. And from that, at my request and demand command that she's involved so that we have two sets of eyes looking at everything. Because I'm not going to do this by myself anymore. And we're not going to make huge mammoth decisions that affect our lives. And you can't stand on the sideline then and say, what'd you do, you dummy? You know, so, I mean, it's a couple dummies working together here. So we're going to figure this out, right?

And so you've got to work together. You've got to come clean. You have to. Then when you lay out your plan, you have to do it. And you can't. There is, let me tell you, no excuses. Before your car gets repoed, before you are about to leave your husband and file bankruptcy, you don't go to the ballpark. They're not even on the same planet, okay? Like there's cancer. We have to take care of the cancer patient. We can't make the ballpark. Sorry.

[C]

You know, our life is imploding.

[A]

Yeah, this is. This is, you know, and you can't use that as a hide mechanism. Well, he works all the time. Bull crap. Come home, put on a pot of coffee and sit up till two in the morning, get this stuff together, figure out where you is, and that's what you've got to do. And I'm not fussing at her. I'm just saying I am fussing at her a little bit, but not right now. I was earlier. But the thing is, when you've got this stuff right in front of you, this is the way you handle it. You go right down from food and you take it apart. And as you click off these things every time you. Okay, I don't have to worry about food. One level of peace comes in and the angst and the anxiety and the freak out starts to leave. Okay, I don't have to worry about lights. Another level of peace comes in. I don't have to worry about being homeless. Another level of peace comes in. No repo man in my driveway. Another level of peace comes in and you get down to we're four months behind on a student loan, which they're going to do nothing. So what? Okay, you get down to where the stuff that is really behind or is really, you know, if you do the right things first, by the time you get down to the other things, you know, it's almost laughable how much of you've gotten rid of 95% of your stress and you're in agreement and you're executing and paying the bills, and we're doing it together. So no one should be doing this by themselves when you're married.

Period. Especially in a crisis.

Especially in a crisis.

[C]

And I would say, you know, a crisis like what they just. What she just explained is we usually say, you know, if one person wants to go and actually, like, log into the account, pay the bill, that's great. A crisis like that, I'd say both of you need to be sitting down at the computer. You both sit down.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

I mean, seriously.

[A]

So that you know that it's done. Because when you know that it's done, it's not necessarily that I don't trust the other person. It's that when I know that it's done, I can sleep.

[C]

That's right. Yes.

[A]

And I don't have to be in drama queen mode.

[C]

Well, in a case where there was lack of payment and so that caused repercussions for a season, there is a building of trust.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And then a year later, if it's like, we are good. We've done this and done this and done this and done this over and over.

[A]

Now we develop the plan together and someone can execute it.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

Right. But only after. After there's competency.

[C]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

So when we're teaching leadership, we teach people you can delegate when there's competency and integrity. So they're not lying about it, and they actually know how to freaking do it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And so it reminds me that all of this a little bit, when you were on Oprah back in the day and there was a couple, and you were like, you know, there was money that wasn't. It was like a mishandling of money.

[A]

He didn't know that they had $80,000 in debt, that she had run out.

[C]

That's right. And you said you need to apologize to her because you were present, you.

[A]

Know, all that you weren't involved.

[C]

But it is. It's the mentality switch that both spouses have a level of responsibility now if the other one doesn't keep their word, and on and on. Now we have a marital issue that we really have to face, which is true. But until that point, both. Yes. Both have a say, and both need to be sitting down and doing this.

[A]

Both have a responsibility to do it.

[E]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a Curveball.

[A]

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[E]

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[A]

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[E]

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[A]

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[E]

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[A]

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[E]

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[A]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

If you feel like you're always starting from scratch with your money, well, trust me, you're not alone. It's not because you aren't disciplined, and it's not because you're inconsistent. It's because you're emotionally overwhelmed. We were kind of just talking about that. And when the frustration or fear build up, you can say, well, I'll put it off or I'll not deal with it. But you got to deal with it. That's not managing your money. This is emotional survival mode. You're stuck because you're ignoring the emotions. Jade Washaw, in her new book, what no One Tells yous About Money. It comes out in January, it's in pre sale right now, does a great job of putting together a clear, guided process that helps you diagnose the emotion and then what to do with it and how to work through and actually become sane again about dealing with your money. Because she and Sam went through hell. And so she's, you know, she's the person with the experience, not with an opinion. Right. So practical, not academic. This is a great book. Pre order right now for 24.99, you get over $100 in free bonus items, the enhanced audiobook, the early access to the ebook, the instant access to an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade, exclusive 3 week online book club with live Q and A with Jade. This is a lot of Jade, and Jade is helpful in this area. So pre order [e-mail] store. And you're gonna love this book. I guarantee it. All right. Braden is in Phoenix. Hey, Braden. What's up?

[D]

Hey, guys. How's it going?

[A]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[D]

I was given a rental property that's been nothing but a headache. And I'm just wondering if I should allow the bank to take it.

[A]

I'm sorry, how do you. How are you given a rental property that has a mortgage?

[D]

I worked for a company that did flips and they kind of gave me it. I was young and I didn't know what I was doing and so I just basically took over the debt. They cover the down payment and it's racked up some credit card debt as well.

[A]

Okay, so what is owed on the house?

[D]

519,000.

[A]

But you did not get the mortgage?

[D]

The mortgage is in my name. It was. The down payment was me.

[A]

Also.

If you give it back to them, they're going to foreclose on you and sue your butt. You understand that, right?

[D]

Yes, sir.

[A]

That would not be a good plan, sir. What's the house worth?

[D]

I had it listed at 5:40 and it wouldn't sell, so I would guess 500,000. I overpaid for it.

[A]

Who do you know? Shock. And how old are you?

[D]

I'm 21.

[A]

So these flippers are these tick tock morons, aren't they?

[D]

Yeah. He was like my mentor and I called him one of my best friends at one point, but he was just a little older than I was.

[A]

Yeah, friends like that, who needs enemies? Okay. Oh, man. I'm sorry, sir?

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Who do you owe the money to? What kind of a mortgage is it? Fha. Virginia Conventional Bank Loan. What is it?

[D]

It's a. It's a conventional mortgage.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Are you able to make the house payment? Brayden? Are you able to stay current on it?

[D]

I am not. So I'm actually like 60 days delinquent right now. I am self employed. I made $25,000 last month. And so I put that into a credit card payments instead of paying the. So it's a rental property right now. So I have renters in it. With renters in it, I lose 1500amonth.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So your only way out, because you owe more on it than it's worth. Net. Net. Is to do what's called a short sale. Have you ever heard that phrase?

[D]

Yes, sir. I work in real estate. I know a lot about it. I've talked to a lot of people who have suggested that.

[A]

Okay, do you actually know how to execute a short sale, sir?

[D]

Yes, I know someone who. That's all they do. They're an agent here in town.

[A]

Okay. All right. Would they be willing to help you?

[D]

Yes, but they said not with tenants in place, and my tenants lease is until March. Mm.

[A]

Well, I think you call your tenants up and say, hey, guys, the house is getting foreclosed on, so you may.

[C]

Want to find a new place.

[A]

You may want to find a new place.

[C]

It's only three months.

[E]

It was.

[D]

Yeah. The biggest issue is it was leased through my mom's Airbnb account, and so I was afraid it was going to hit that and destroy her Airbnb business as well.

[A]

Yeah.

Man, y' all just stack stupid on top of stupid, didn't you? Man, I'll tell you, I'm sorry. I've done. I've done worse. That's what I'm just feel bad for you. It's like every. Because every time I bring something up, there's another hook in it. Right? So.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

So if I'm in your shoes, I quit paying the payments, and I run the renters off.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. As best I can. I mean, Lee. I mean, just by telling them, hey, guys, it's gonna get foreclosed on. You may want to look for a place to live, and they'll probably up and leave. Well, and I'll you out of the lease because I don't want you to get hurt. If you want to go. If you want to go early, I'll understand.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. And then quit paying the payments and then start the short sale. If your friend won't help you while the tenants are in place, go to ramseysolutions.com and get a Ramsey trusted agent that knows how to do short sales, and they'll help you. Okay. The tenants don't have to be gone for you to begin to negotiate a short sale. It just makes it easier to show the house.

[C]

Well. And if you're in that world, Braden, you should Have. You should know a lot of people. You said a lot of people have suggested this. I'm sure there's a lot of realtors that you know that you know. I mean, a Ramsey trusted agent I would feel good about just because I know the type of people they are. But. Yeah, I mean, finding someone should be relatively easy.

[A]

So basically the short sale is. Is you get an offer on the property that is net lower than the actual balance and you submit that to the mortgage company and they realize, having done an appraisal, that they're not going to get any more than that after they foreclose on you. So they take that and you are looking. You remember this phrase without recourse?

[D]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Because that means they don't come after another. They don't come after you for the difference.

[D]

Okay. Yes. And another thing on top of that is my. The old boss, he paid his best friend to co sign for me. So he's kind of scared and going downhill with me. So he's kind of pressured me into paying the payments previously, but I've just told him I'm done.

[A]

Yeah, well, time talk to your old boss.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Who set this up? You didn't talk him into doing it. The other guy did and he did it.

[C]

That's the stupid thing about co signing. He. Yeah. Sucks for him.

[A]

So let me ask you this, okay? You co sign for a 21 year old who's overpaying for a piece of property and then you're shocked that you get stung. Okay. I'm saying, put together by a bunch of flippers. Yeah, this is a good way to get screwed. And so, yeah, I'm so sorry you're going through this. The great news is, is that when you're the other side of it, you will have learned several lessons. If you learn them and you need to write them out. I'll tell you what. Some of them are never co sign. Never accept a cosign. Never buy a piece of property with nothing down. Don't borrow up to your eyeballs and expect a piece of real estate to work. It doesn't work. It doesn't cash flow. There's no possible way this nothing down TikTok crap.

[C]

Don't get in the Airbnb business either, Braden. Don't follow your mom's footsteps.

[A]

Yeah. And quit looking for all the get rich quick stuff. Every one of these things is in the get rich quick stuff. But right now, okay, I don't need partners, I don't need co signers and I don't need favors. From friends who aren't really friends who help me buy something that I overpay for and over borrow on and trap me in. And so, you know, I. One of my lessons is I never co. Sign. That's one of the things I learned when I was just a little bit older than you, and I went broke. And one of the lessons I learned is I don't have. The only ship that won't sail is a partnership. I'm not in partners with anybody, period. One of the lessons I learned is I don't borrow money anymore. Period. The borrower's slave to the lender. And boy, don't you feel that right now, man. Gosh, I'm so sorry, Braden. But a short sale is your way out. Cleaning out the tenants is part of that program. It's not necessarily start it, but I would start it. I would get it on the market and get an offer that you can take to the mortgage company and have them accept a reduced payout on the mortgage. A call to short sale without recourse. If they don't say without recourse, they're going to sue you for the difference as if they had foreclosed on you.

[C]

And Braden, you're. You're a go getter. You're doing stuff at 21. But this real estate, the real estate world, there's so many traps. What we just laid out earlier in the call, what Dave was saying. So remember those, okay? It's going to be really easy to get sucked into a deal that feels so great, right? Remember these principles and it's going to be a more boring ride, but a safer ride for you.

[E]

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[A]

Amanda is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Amanda. How are you?

[B]

Fine. How are you?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[B]

I'm calling because my father passed away about a year ago and assigned me to be the executrix of his estate. But like you, he had Some rough times financially early on, but persevered, and he ended up doing really well in his life. He also tried to be generous. My mother has never been super interested in finances and is now dealing with the very early stages of dementia. Before he passed, my dad mentioned that he had been helping to pay for his aunt's nursing home costs. We don't know that side of the family very well. And I met Aunt Dee's descendants at the funeral. But each month, $2,100 of her care is paid by someone on her side.

[D]

And then.

[B]

$2,660 is paid by my mother. Well, each year the cost of the care goes up, and we just received notice that it will be going up by $500 this next year. And so I told my mom in passing that. And I was surprised to hear that she didn't want to absorb the extra $500. In fact, she doesn't want to absorb any of it. She wants to continue to pay 2,660 and have Aunt D's descendants pick up the rest. I can see why that makes sense as far as fairness goes. But the thing is, my mom is set for life. She's able to absorb the entire annual cost of the nursing home, and it wouldn't change one aspect of her life.

[A]

What is the net worth now? How much money does your mom have?

[B]

It's over 5 million.

[A]

Okay, so this is not a math issue. This is an emotion issue.

[D]

You.

[B]

Yeah, I definitely think it's an emotion issue.

[A]

So did your dad dictate this in the will or in the instructions? Other than verbally?

[C]

No.

[B]

There's nothing in writing. It's only verbally. So I just.

[A]

How did you find out about. You found out about it before he passed?

[B]

Yes. He didn't tell me anything about his finances until about two days before he died. And then it was just like talk, talk, talk. And I just took a bunch of notes.

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

And when he was talking and you took notes, he said, to do what?

[D]

Regarding the nursing home, he said, I've been taking.

[B]

I've been helping with Aunt Dina's cost. And that's all he says. I'll just continue to do that. She's very old.

[C]

Does her family. And her family's paying 2100 of it.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Would $500 be a burden to them? Do you feel like.

[B]

I. I mean, I don't know, but I assume so. They all. They have blue collar jobs and.

Yeah.

[C]

And you're frustrated because you're like, mom, you could spend a couple grand and it's all done, you know, the extra 500. Right, right.

[A]

So on the spirit of the thing is, you're pretty sure it's what your dad would do, but. And you're still in charge of it. The estate has not been closed out?

[B]

No, there's a lot.

[A]

Okay. How long. And he passed a year ago.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So you're still managing what really is your mother's affairs on behalf of your dad's estate.

[B]

Yes, and I probably will for the rest of her life because.

She start she's only 75. That she has the beginnings of dementia.

[A]

Yeah, but you. That's different than you being the executrix of your dad's estate. You understand? That's now becoming her power of attorney.

[B]

Which I also have.

[A]

Okay. Okay. All right. So the lines are blurred between when you drop off doing the estate and start managing her affairs.

[B]

Exactly, yeah.

[A]

So if you've crossed over into managing her affairs, you would have to do it at her behest. If you're still managing his affairs, you would do what he wanted. So what do you think it is?

[B]

Well, that's why I'm calling you.

[A]

I don't know. I can't tell. I can't tell. You're saying the estate is still open. Why is it still open?

[B]

Well, he had one main business and about 12 other small little businesses, and the main business is taken care of. And I am slowly working through the 12 smaller ones, closing some of them and some of them are ongoing concerns.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

I guess it's just really a matter of relationship with your ailing mother is really what it comes down to, because it's not a math thing and it's not a bad thing to do. So let's say you play it out both ways. Let's say, okay, we're going to put the other $500 in mom. It's what dad would want and it doesn't affect you. And I feel like we need to do this, so I'm going to go ahead and do it. Then. What's her reaction?

[B]

Oh, I think she'd be unhappy, but I think she would also forget about it.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. And then the other way is obviously you could play it out to say, I'm not going to do it because mom doesn't want to do it. And you let the other people know. And you know, they struggle through the next few years while this lady lives. Right.

[B]

Well, is there a way that you can help me kind of maybe talk her through generosity?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, in this case, I would just. I would put it on your dad. I would just say, mom, I really feel like dad told me to take care of this. And it doesn't affect you. You're okay.

[C]

You won't even know.

[A]

Mom, it's not because.

[C]

Just because of the math, we could.

[A]

Pay 10 times this and you would still never know it. So it's not. It's pretty much like buying a biscuit, Mom. I mean, you can afford a biscuit, and we're gonna. We're gonna give this lady a biscuit because that's what dad wanted to do. And you're gonna be much longer probably. I'm doing this. I'm doing this for dad. Okay. And you would do it for dad. You. If he was here, it's what would have happened, Mom. And you'd still been okay then. Okay. And so I don't know if you're gonna get her to be generous on this. She's like you said, she's gonna.

[D]

And.

[A]

And then she's gonna forget it. So, yeah.

I think you do it and you just tell her why you're doing it gently, kindly, and we're not going to have an argument about this. It's just a fact. I'm doing this because this is what dad would have done. If dad was here, he would have done it, and you would have been okay. I'm here. I'm doing it for him because it's what he would have done. And you're going to be okay, Mom. I'm going to make sure you're okay, Mom. This is not going to affect you at all, Mom. I promise. You got plenty of money. You're gonna be okay. And it's doing a good thing for somebody, and somebody's gonna be okay. And I think you just do. Took me a minute to get there. I'm trying to figure out what your moral obligation is, but it's really a relational thing.

[C]

Yeah. And from the generosity point, it's hard to teach someone generosity when it's forced and they don't want to do it. You know, the spirit of generosity is finding something that they love, they're passionate about, and they get to plug into, and it's fun for them. Right. Like, that's part of learning the general. So trying to force generosity, teaching generosity in this, I don't think is the. Is the way to go either.

[A]

I'm gonna make you give your money away. That's not generosity. You're right. That's a good point. Oh, my goodness.

[C]

It's a Good question. Amanda, though, that's hard. And when the lines are blurred, are you the executor of an estate or are you helping manage your mom's house?

[A]

The estate's still open, and she's still paying the bills from the estate. I know. Really? Mom doesn't get a vote? Yeah, technically speaking. So she is the executrix, and she's in good shape to make that decision. You can ask your attorney to be sure. Neither one of us are attorneys, but I'm pretty sure that's what they're going to tell you. And morally and ethically, that's where you stand for sure. One more time, folks. We're coming up on the Christmas season, the New Year's season. It's when people take stock of things. This is when you jump on zanderinsurance.com, make sure you have the right amount of term insurance in place. This is when you go to mama bearlegalforms.com and get your will in place. And this is when you write out stuff like this. I have a very detailed estate plan. And about this time last year, your mother said, but what would I do with all that collection of so and so? Because it's just. It's just a collection of so and so of what?

[C]

Like your skis or something?

[A]

Well, like my guns. Okay, what are you gonna do? Well, I don't need all them guns. And what am I gonna do with all them guns?

[C]

All your skis.

[A]

Skis, yeah.

[C]

All your water skis, too.

[A]

Yeah. Well, there's important things. Important things. So she's like, I just. I'll just give them away. And I'm like, you can do whatever you want. She said, well, I would like some instructions from you. And that's fair. So I wrote out, here's what you do with this collection. Yeah. And here's how you distribute it, and here's who you call to get to get rid of it and so on. And, you know, make sure the kids get some of this and the grandkids get some of that, and then in the rest of it, you know, you can just get rid of. And that's fine.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But she wanted the clarification. And this is a minor thing that was not in the actual will that Amanda's dealing with, but it was a verbal thing three days before he passed.

[C]

That's what I was gonna say. A gift to give your grown kids is to sit down and do this. Yes. And not on your deathbed, literally, you know, just starting to talk. I mean, it causes all this Just to be the grieving process. All of it so much smoother.

[A]

Good reminder. This is the Ramsay Show.

[E]

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[A]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. In the Fairwinds Credit union studio, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality number one best selling author and daughter is my co host. Kelly's in Salt Lake City. Hi, Kelly. How are you?

[B]

I'm good. I'm nervous actually, if I'm being honest.

[A]

That's okay. How can we help?

[B]

So just a little bit of background. We are debt free. We have money and investments and we have money where we can contribute and give to people. And last summer we came across, or this past summer we came across a international student who needed some help. She had lost her support.

And so we have started helping her. And our goal for her is to help her get a degree so that, you know, generations can change with that. That's our dream there. But on several instances, she's been irresponsible, ungrateful, and at times kind of fudging the truth. So my question is, what are fair expectations to put on an international student? I guess we have three. How many chances do we give? And when does our help start being enabling instead of empowering and we're just basically putting our money down the drain because she doesn't have the skills to get a degree and to function.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Is she here in the States, Kelly, or is she.

She is here.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Okay. And what do you mean by fudging the truth?

[A]

Like what, is she lying?

[C]

Well, she's lying, but about what? What she's doing with the money or like other things in life or.

[B]

No. So like for example, one of the examples is she said she had insurance and we got her into a junior college and when she got down there, they said her insurance wasn't great and that the school had Better insurance. So they just put that on our tab without talking to us. Well, she didn't come and say, guess what? My insurance isn't good enough. You're going to be paying $700 for that. And that's one of the examples. Another example is that we were paying for her to take the toefl, the English Proficiency Test, and she didn't pass the first three times. It's a $300 test. And so for the fourth time, I said, listen, why don't we get you an online class? Do you have time for that? Can you do this? She said, yes, I will do it. I promise. And when we got on to cancel the membership, she hadn't done one question.

And on top of that, when we went to the. Take her to the test the fourth time, she didn't even bring her passport. So that was money down the drain.

And so it feels like she's not studying, she's not appreciating it. So, yeah, yeah, the effort. We're putting in more effort than she is.

[C]

You're wanting this more for her than she wants for herself is what it sounds like, yes.

[B]

Yeah, it does. And we feel stuck now because we feel like if we take back.

We'Ve added some extra things we want her to do so that she has more skin in the game. But if we decide this isn't working for us, it feels like now we're the bad guys and she has to go back to her home. So we feel kind of stuck here, but we don't want to waste our money either.

[A]

Yeah.

Well, I don't do. I'll choose.

Disappointment before I'll choose violating principles.

And your whole. You would. You would not tolerate this out of any other situation. The only reason you're still in this game is you're guilted into it.

[C]

And guilt. Choosing guilt over resentment is what Dr. John DeLoney always says, too. Yeah, you're resenting her. You're starting to resent her.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, for sure.

[A]

Yeah. I'm just. I'm gonna pick a number, and I'm gonna let her know that at the end of that number that our support will end. And that gives her a little bit of an off ramp instead of just a sudden end to it today. In other words, some severance pay, if you will. So how much have you put into this so far?

[B]

We've put in about 12,000.

[A]

Okay. Over what period of time?

[B]

Six months.

[A]

Okay. And so if you put in. If you put in 3,000 more, that would give her a few months to get some. We're going to budget $3,000 more. And after that, our, our support on this is ending. We'll be cheering for them.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. So we, we kept giving her excuses, basically. You know, she's fragile, she's stressed, she's been through a lot type thing. And just a couple days ago we sent her a written note. We expect these things.

To give her just one more chance because we want to feel like we've done all we can. She's got to start school again next January. So we would. With that, we'd have to pay for housing, tuition, books, all of those things.

And so we have this list. And I'm inclined to say, you need to do these things, but if she doesn't do one perfectly, do we say, that's it, this is your last semester?

[A]

I think this is her last semester.

[B]

Okay. You would keep paying in for that. What if she changes?

[A]

There's no joy in this at all.

[B]

No.

[A]

It's all regret. It's. I wished I had. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't do it. Hello?

Yeah. If I knew then what I know now. Right. And so we don't. We don't continue. We don't continue.

[C]

How much is. Okay. Is it a community college? You said Kelly. She's in.

[B]

It's a junior college. Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So what is this semester in housing going to cost you?

[B]

It will cost.

Eleven hundred dollars.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Total?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not too bad. Yeah.

[A]

Over the whole semester, like I said I would. I would budget like $3,000. So we're going to cover this and we're going to give you this amount of money and our support is ending at that point. Sorry.

[B]

Okay. No more chances.

[A]

It's not. It's not a. Chances. It's not. It's not a. This didn't work. We tried to do this and it was not something that we're. It's not something that we're participating in anymore.

And there's not a big corrective. We're not going to make a big speech, okay. About all these things because it just is what it is. Okay. And so you've tried to do corrective things and they didn't work. Yeah, you mentioned several of them. Okay. So I'll give you an example, all right. When someone that is working here at Ramsey, we've got 1100 folks, is not working out, they're not competent or they've got a behavior issue or something, we sit down with them and say, look, this is a problem. We gotta fix this. And I'll walk with you while we fix it. But if we don't fix it, it's gonna be a thing. And then we sit down again, and then we sit down again, and then we sit down again. And then we say, okay, you have 30 days. And during that time, if you know there's a zero tolerance, you're gonna be not doing this behavior anymore. Okay? And if they do it again, then we don't even wait the end of the 30 days. As soon as they do that, the next morning, we sit down. And that conversation when they leave is one minute.

We've already had all the conversations.

That conversation is simply the decision has been made that today's your last day at Ramsey.

[D]

Okay?

[A]

That's about it. And then we, you know, wrap up all the key fobs and the computers and the cell phones, that stuff. Right? But I mean, it's administrative at that point. But we're not gonna. We're not doing a corrective, you know, if you had just done this. No, we're not doing all that. It's just your last day. It's just today's your last day. That simple. Because if you had done all this, that was in the 90 days per previously. You've already passed all that. You're done.

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[C]

Today's question comes from Tucker in Wisconsin. My wife and I just started baby step three. Our 10 year old is in dance lessons and so far we have been able to cover the cost. That bill will soon include travel expenses for competitions. My wife wants us to use what we have in the emergency fund to cover the extra expenses. But I'd prefer to save as much as possible to keep cash flowing the costs while making minimum payments on our debt. Our combined income is $150,000. We still have a credit card but we'll cut it when baby step three is completed. Who is correct on how to pay the expenses? Okay, well Tucker, you're not in baby Step 3 if you're still paying minimum payments on your debt. So you still have debt. So you're not on baby step three.

I mean. And who's technically correct? I mean you would be. It's not an emergency this. I mean you guys know that if you're doing a competitive sport that when beginning of seasons start and when things are due, you know when that's coming. You may not know the exact price tag for it but you know, you know, you know ahead of time. So it's. Well you don't know what the costume, I mean there, there, you may not have the exact specific number but you should know the range and what's, what's happening with schedules. At least that's how it is with our three kids. I know when you know, we just signed up for soccer this week for the spring and I always know in December it's this, it's you know, but they you know, kick up the fees a little bit each year, whatever it may look like. So. But you know it's coming so that's not, it's not an emergency. And making sure that you guys have the money for it too. Cause you guys are still on baby step two. You're still trying to pay off this debt.

[A]

No, you're not on a baby step while you still have a credit card. You need to cut it up right now. And then you're in baby step two. Until you get your debts paid off. You shouldn't have anything in the emergency fund except $1,000. And broke people don't travel with 10 year old dance competitions and you're broke people.

It's sad.

It'S heartbreaking.

[C]

What is that the 10 year old's like.

[A]

No one will remember this in 10 months, especially the 10 month old. The 10 year old, only the angry wife who's living her life through a 10 year old dance competition. So. No, no, this is just. You just don't do this. You just don't. I mean it's like your family is in jeopardy, you're in debt and you have no money. Money. And we're prioritizing a 10 year old dance competition over that. That's so screwed up it's not even addressable. Okay. No.

[C]

There could be a whole hour on youth sports. Well, I mean kids, travel. I mean it is though, it's. It is the emotional prior prioritization of it all.

[A]

Even if you've got the money. Even if you got the money, it's a different thing. But, but I mean we had the money. Daniel's playing ice hockey and we figured out pretty quick he's not going to be in the nhs and so.

[C]

Well, I'll be tacky and say we have the money but we choose to do rec sports and not travel and.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what, that's exactly what I said. You're not going to be in the NHL, so I'm not traveling to Atlanta to watch you play a sport that you're not going to play. So you're going to do it here and, and then we're going to go home and have a family and do other stuff. So. And I'm not paying 25,000 bucks for you to. So you can have a vacation with your 10 year old buddies. No, sorry, no. Not doing it. So.

[C]

Which is crazy. That again it's, that's such a, these days, such a controversial take.

[A]

Yeah, well, do you know what I mean?

[C]

No, no, no. Well, I mean I'm, I mean we're.

[A]

So easy to stir up a controversy today.

[C]

It's. No, I know, but I'm just saying the world today, Papa Dave, common sense is so rare.

[A]

Having it as like.

[C]

I'm serious though in the, in this year, literally when you talk to parents, Deloney talks about this too. And it's not a value system. I'm not saying I, I won't say it's just crazy, but it is this and a lot of it is fear based. If they're, if they're not doing it in elementary school, they're not going to make a middle school team. If they don't make the middle school team, they're not going to make the high school team, and then they're going to do drugs and they're going to die like that. That's the feeling people have. That's the. I'm telling you, the amount of, the amount of feeling like if they don't get, if they don't start now, they're not, they're not going to make it, they're not going to do anything. And it's not even worried about college or professional. It really is. People are so concerned about high school when the kids are in third grade and so they're starting to.

[A]

If you want to pay for some of this stuff, it's fine, but you need to be not broke when you're paying for it. You don't need to go on vacation either when you're broke.

Don't write in here and say, you know, my wife wants to use the emergency fund to go on a cruise. No, you're broke people. Broke people don't go on cruises. That's dumb. Work your butt off, build up some cash where you're not broke and then go on a cruise. Hello. Then you can actually enjoy the cruise. But this fake it stuff. And I'm just going to walk around, act like this isn't going on. I mean, you have debt and you have no money. You're broke people. So act like you're broke when you're broke and you know, live like no one else and pay a price. And then later you can do whatever you want to do. And if, then you want to do 10 year old dance competitions, travel, then we can argue about whether that's even wise. But that's a different discussion right now. It's not even on the table to have the discussion so now. And so you're actually both wrong. Tucker, you're not in baby step three. You're not in a baby step. You're still farting around with your credit card, acting like you're gonna be okay. And so, you know, you're just wandering around over here. And then she's over here at dance competitions. So both of you, you're not ready to get out of. You're not really doing this stuff yet. You're gonna have to get serious about it like your freaking life depends on it. Like whether this little girl goes to college, that matters. And the number of girls that go to college on a dance scholarship is precisely close to almost zero. Okay, There's a handful. It's like the number of kids that actually play D1 sports and have a scholarship. Almost zero as a percentage of those that graduate from high school that played sports. So, I mean. And then try leaving college and go to the NFL. Oh, yeah. There's like a 0.1% chance of that. So let's just keep. Let's just track this whole thing all the way forward. The chances of you ending up there is really close to zero. So what she'll have is a little trophy and a memory of a Three Dog Night song when she's 30. That's what she's really gonna have from the dance competition. Nothing else.

[C]

Three Dog Night song.

[A]

I just made that up. But you gotta have an old. You gotta have an old 70s tune in your dance competition. Right? Don't you. Isn't that, like, a requirement? Oh, man. I think dance competitions should have to have an old 70s.

[C]

Dave is just showing his age.

[A]

I just think. I think that's possible. Maybe Eagles.

[D]

I don't know.

[A]

Whatever you want to do, Heart. I don't care. I mean, but this is what it is. It's not.

[C]

Yes, yes, yes, you did.

[A]

You did cheerleading and competition. Cheerleading.

[C]

No, I did not. I did not. No.

[A]

You went to a class.

[C]

I didn't.

[A]

You were in a little camp thing one time.

[C]

Yes, I did pay for that. I did a weekly.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

A weekly. Yes. At the local. That's different than.

[A]

I know.

[C]

Competitive. Yes.

[A]

But we had. No. That you were going to end up making $10,000 being a Titan's cheerleader.

[C]

What I'm saying, though, is what do they make?

[A]

They make about ten grand.

[C]

Let me say this. The parents today, though, I think is less about them becoming professional athletes, and it's more about this, their childhood experiences and them being involved in something and being the best at it so that they can do it in middle school and high school. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like it's a lot about.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I mean, I'm sure there's some. It's probably the dudes and their sons that are like, he's gonna play professional ball. I don't know.

[A]

I guess that's.

[C]

But at least, like, most of the people I know, they still do competitive and travel. A lot of our friends do, and they know their kid isn't gonna make it, but they do it because kind of everyone does it. Like, if you want to play at a competitive level, they all do these, like, crazy leagues. I don't know.

[A]

Whatever everyone does is.

[C]

I know. I'm just saying, though, like. Like, I feel like an outsider I really do. Like, we're one of the only families that doesn't do. I know. I'm just so proud of you saying the reality. No. And it's not a pat on Rachel's pack.

[A]

This is.

[C]

We just don't to want, want to travel for kids sports. And right now we've, it's. It's a never say never. But for our, for our 10 year old.

We are not.

[A]

As for me in my house, as.

[C]

For me and my house. But it's a real thing, y'.

[B]

All.

[C]

It's real. And it's not just our area. It's all over.

[A]

You got to go vacation. And you don't need to be spending huge amounts of money on children's sports or dance competitions when you're in debt and you're broke. Okay, guys, that's just not smart part. And you don't need to buy a boat so that because we. We get so much joy at the lake. No, you're broke. People don't do this. This is how people just. It's a form of denial. And denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Sam.

[E]

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[A]

Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it? Well, that's normal. Normal's broke. You don't want to be normal. Let's be weird. Whatever everybody else is doing, don't it do it. You don't have to live that way. Our Every dollar budgeting app helps you find extra money every month and build you a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. In just 15 minutes, you'll find thousands and hidden margin. You'll feel like you got a raise. Hey, don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Bri is with us in Virginia. Hi, Bri. How are you? How are you?

[B]

I'm so good. How are you?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[B]

This is so cool. So my question is, my husband lost his job last week, and I think we are finally at the point of being sick and tired, of feeling sick and tired of living paycheck to paycheck. But I feel like I have a hard time getting my husband to have that same gazelle intensity because of how many sacrifices he feels our kids will have to make with the debt paying off process. How do I get him and I to have that same intensity?

[C]

What kind of sacrifices does he see it for the kids?

[B]

So I think it's a little more.

To provide just a little context. He was a teen dad to two kids. We had two kids in high school. The mom's not in the picture, and they kind of had a little bit of a tumultuous childhood growing up until he got full custody. Then I came into the picture, and I. Their mom now. And so I think he holds on to a lot of guilt about just their childhood and then trying to plan.

[A]

Out, you know, how long ago was all that?

[B]

How long it's gonna take? He got full custody in 2018.

[A]

Okay. So seven years.

In the rearview marriage.

[C]

And how old are they now? High school.

[B]

They're 16 and 17. So by the time we get it paid off, we feel like we're gonna be out at a house.

[D]

House.

[B]

And.

It'S hard to, like, think about saying no to them now. And then they're going to be gone, and we have a toddler who I feel like is going to reap the benefits of the decisions we're making now. And it just. It's a lot of guilt for both of us.

[A]

I would be. I would feel guilty if I was financially irresponsible. And that was the last message I gave them before they left home. Yeah.

Going to pretend like none of this matters because you're 17 and it was rough when you were 10. And so we're going to spend like we're in Congress and put ourselves deeply in debt and screw up our finances further.

As our way of saying, sorry it was tough when you were eight. And that's the gift we're going to give you, is model this very poorly for you. Well, that's kind of silly.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I mean. I mean, Bri, I think there's. I don't know. For him, I'm like, I want him, your husband, to have a level of seeing this that, yeah, there may be some sacrifices. You may not be able to do the trip, but also to remember that, you know, when your kids just because they are off in college, I know life looks different, but they also are still around, you know, you guys can still go and do things with them. And it's not like parenting just stops at 18, right? I mean it's like a relationship just ends, it continues on. And I know things look different and all of that and things will change. They're not in the house. But honestly too, I think, you know, being present with them and them having a dad that's emotionally and spiritually connected to them and time wise is with them and you know what I mean, like the relationship aspect is probably what's going to take them a lot further for them for their future relationship.

[A]

Their father facing his demons and changing his way ways is way more important than him taking them to Disney.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah, it just is. I mean, here's the thing my friend Andy Andrews said and I used it a lot when our kids were at home, even that we're not trying to raise great kids.

We'Re trying to raise kids that become great adults. So plug that formula into this situation and the best gift I can give these two teenagers is a dad who's saying, you know what? I haven't done well with this money thing and I'm going to start right now and for the last couple years you're here, you're going to see me doing this. Right? That's the good news. The bad news is it means we're not going to get to do some things that maybe we would have done when I was irresponsible.

[B]

Can I, can I ask how does that look? Like practically like we're not obviously planning any trips to Disney or anything like that. But like with like Christmas and then we have like three birthdays, right?

[A]

We didn't, we didn't cancel Christmas or birthdays. We just didn't buy a new, we didn't buy a new BMW for Christmas.

[B]

Right. My step one has to go bowling. Do we say like, that's what I'm trying to wrap my head around.

[A]

We're like, do we say what's your household income?

[B]

He just lost his job Friday. But he has some promise. Like I think he has some good things coming hopefully this week. But I mean it was like 130.

[A]

And what do you makes?

[B]

I guess I'm part time. I make 20 bucks an hour. I only work hours a week.

[A]

Okay, so we have $130,000 household income, give or take when he lands the new position.

[C]

How Much debt. Do you guys.

[A]

How much debt are you carrying? Yeah.

[B]

29,643.

[C]

Oh, Brie. Yeah. Y' all can do.

[A]

So lay out a budget and say there's only this much entertainment. There's only this much. And we're not going out to eat, and we're not going on vacation, but we can do a little bit of this.

[D]

This.

[A]

We can do a little bit of that. And we're gonna. As a family, we're gonna tick off $29,000. You guys are gonna watch it happen, too. Yeah.

[C]

Do it in a year.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's what I hope. That's what I'm really hoping.

[A]

No, it's not. 130 minus 30 is a hundred. Wow.

[C]

Then after taxes. After taxes, you'll be living on 70 or whatever.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[C]

I know, but I'm just saying.

[A]

I mean. Do it. Yeah, yeah. But. But you can't use the excuse of my children are going to suffer. Because your children are going to suffer more watching a father and mother who are irresponsible.

[B]

Right. They watch everything we do.

[A]

They're going to do what you do.

[C]

More is caught than taught. They're watching you.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, that. I'm more concerned about that than anything else.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So, I mean, you guys do what you want to do, but that. That would be my motivation.

[C]

The Great. And let me say this, too. I. And again, I think I'm just in the middle of it because we're kind of in the Christmas season with little kids at home. But. And even looking back on my childhood, the things that you remember, the memories that you have, the things that actually shape who you are as an adult of what we're saying that bring you to the workplace, that bring you into a marriage, that bring you as a parent, is not the birthday gifts. Right. The gift you give your kids is you and the time that is spent together doing a puzzle even. Right. I mean, it's like you don't.

[A]

I mean, I was talking. I was being interviewed this morning.

[C]

I think it's a big deal. It really is.

[A]

I was being interviewed on a radio station this morning, and the guy was asking me about this video that's going around about the. What Christmas gift you get last year. And the kid doesn't know. Yeah, but what experience. They remember every detail about the trip. And I said, well, your sister's 40, and she could not tell you a single gift she got at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 years old. But she can tell you at 8, 9, 10,11 years old 100% of those. Christmas at midnight. We were in church, lighting candles on Christmas Eve, falling asleep, and the kids are asleep in my lap. And she can give you that memory and paint it so clearly in HD 30 years later.

[C]

Mom spilling wax on a lady's coat in front of us. One year when I was probably.

Those are the. That's like. It's things like that that you remember and that shaping away.

[A]

We don't know what we got for Christmas that year. So it's not to say, don't buy something for Christmas.

[C]

No, no. But it's just out of control. But it is the mindset and the perspective that I think has gotten so out of whack that if we don't do this or buy this for our kids, somehow we're harming them. And what I'm saying is an experience that has to cost. Nothing is the thing that's gonna shape and mold you. And it's the Tuesday nights at home at having a family dinner. Like, those are the things that create good, healthy life.

[A]

Adults.

[C]

It's not the crap that you buy. It's really not. And is bowling fun? Yes, Absolutely. Go, you know, take them bowling. But again, even the bowling experience is not the thing that shapes who they are. It's having a dad who is present, who is talking to them, who knows them, is relational. Like those. Like, literally. That is what shapes you as an adult, as for as a parent. And I think we get so wrapped up in all this.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Buying crap that I'm like, it doesn't matter.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So it really doesn't.

[A]

But it does help me. It always helped me to reframe it, to say, I'm not trying to raise great kids.

Trying to raise kids that are great adults. It changes the discussion.

[C]

Who are resilient during hard times. And maybe they have a hard year because they don't get to buy what they want, but that's resilience.

[A]

They heard the word no. What? We can't say that. That's illegal.

[C]

Y' all are doing great. Bree, though, to your point. Yes. You are starting. If you guys do this, you're starting changing the trajectory not of. Not only of those teenagers, but that toddler that's in your house, too. So. Yeah, we are. We're cheering you guys on for sure.

[A]

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[E]

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David is in Indianapolis. Hi David, how are you?

[D]

Good, Dave, how are you?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[D]

Long story short, I just checked my my statements from my financial advisor last month for been the first time in a couple months anyway, looking at him, it only looks like I've seen about 7% growth this year and was wondering if I should fire him and look for someone else.

[C]

What does he have you invested in, do you know?

[D]

It's supposed to be aggressive growth.

Supposedly. As far as the individual funds, I'm not 100% sure on. Yeah, I just figured this out. I just figured this out on Friday.

[C]

Have you contacted them.

And asked any questions?

[B]

I haven't.

[D]

I did contact. I did not ask about the retirement. I did contact them to figure out why. This is another issue. My deposits I made into my money market account were not being actually used and they were just sitting there not gaining interest either.

[C]

Oh gosh. You had money in your money market account that he has access to that he's supposed to pull each month money from to invest and he's not done that.

[A]

There's some couple things wrong with the equation. All right, you probably should fire him, but not for the reasons that you're saying. You're griping about the rate of return and you don't even know what the mutual fund is. It's your responsibility to know what that is. Your financial advisor's job is not to babysit you. Their job is to teach you and you make your decisions. And then, then if you don't like the returns. It's the return. It's due to your choices, but you don't even know what's going on. You just toss the money over the fence and hoped he handled it well. And that's a good way to lose everything.

[D]

So I guess my next question would be.

Is that something that you would. Is that something you know? So I. I paid somewhat close attention to the market. Listen to you guys listen to other financial podcasts. What kind of open my eyes still was. I seen that the s and P500 has grown 14 and a half percent, something like that this year.

[A]

17.

[D]

Yeah, 17.

[A]

And you made seven. So something screwed up. Yeah, I agree with you. Something screwed up. But here, here's my point, okay? I do not have any mutual funds with my financial advisor that I didn't choose. Not because I'm Dave Ramsey, but because that's what we teach people to do. Your financial advisor's job is to be a teacher and say, here's some things you could do. Here's the historical data on this mutual fund, and it's one I might look at if I were you. And you go, yeah, I like that. And I'm going to make the choice to make the purchase based on having been informed. And then if it doesn't perform, I made the choice, not him.

And it was just a miss. Okay? Because you pick some funds that didn't. Even if they're aggressive growth, they ought to be outperforming the S and P on substantially. Unless there's some kind of. I don't know what you pick, but I mean, you could be in all kinds of sector funds or something else. I don't know what you got into, but I want you to know what you're doing. And so, like, this is the way you hear these sports figures that lose everything. Like they make $10 million, then they're broke or something. It's because they turn it over to some guy and go, my guy's handling it. And then they don't even look at it. And turns out in that case, the guy's a scam artist or whatever, or he's a doofus, one of the two. I mean, I think the guy just handed you some mutual funds. Half looked at him, you half looked at them, and y' all chose poorly is what it sounds like.

So what I want him to do is to take up a new position if you're gonna keep him. Probably wouldn't. And that to be the heart of a teacher. And what I want you to do is not look for a babysitter, but have the heart of a student.

[C]

And he should be presenting you with these ideas too, right? I mean, you're not. This is why you hire someone is to do it and to show you and to give you options. Like that's what our advisor does. It's like here, here's.

[A]

But then you know what it is. Yeah, you know exactly what it is.

[D]

So I guess that's, you know what my biggest question for him, I guess would be, what's the benefit of paying you when I can open an account on Vanguard Schwab whatever and just throw it in a s and P500.

[A]

Now you can go buy a Vanguard S and P and throw it all in there and you made 17%. That. That's called passive investing. Okay? That's called passive investing. Yeah. Well, now what you're paying him to do is not to. Is to show you mutual funds that are outperforming the S and P.

And then, and then you decide if you think they're going to continue to do that. I buy mutual funds through my Investment Advisor. There's 8,000 mutual funds. I mean, I grew up in this stuff and I'm not going to comb through all that crap that drive me nuts. Okay. I'm not that big a nerd. So I call him up, I'm like, hey, find me four funds in this category that are outpacing the S and P because I want to put some money in that area. Or in the case of, you follow the Ramsey recommendations for your 401k, put a fourth in growth, a fourth in aggressive growth, a fourth in a foreign fund or an international fund and a fourth in growth in income. We put a fourth in each in my retirement and I want all three of those to over a 10 year period of time or longer to have an outperformed the S and P. And they're hard to find, but you can find them. They're not if they've got the software to pull that up and they pull up three or four and look at them together we go, okay, which ones of these do we think? We talk about it together and then we make the choice together. I'm not paying him to be a stock picker.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

I'm paying him to man help me manage my money.

[C]

Yeah. And also a great financial advisor is looking at more than just your 401k and your investments. They're looking over your entire financial advice portfolio. They're looking at your house taxes, the give. I mean, like they're able to look at everything. And I think for. That's where I see the benefit is having everything in one place now. Yeah. Is the vanguard option there? Absolutely. But I would even bring that to a financial advisor, say, I have this over here with me. Put that in my portfolio so I can look at the whole picture. Right. So I don't know. That's. Ours has helped us, you know, do things that I'm like, oh, well, that's creative. I didn't think to do go here and here. And they know about, you know, whether it's, you know, ways to invest and it's great.

[A]

But they don't. They didn't call you up and tell you they did it?

[C]

No.

[A]

They call you up and say, here's an idea. You all understand the idea. And then do we implement the idea?

[C]

Yes, but there is a.

[A]

Whether it's a mutual fund purchase or whether it's, I know, a tax move or whatever it is.

[C]

But David, a lot of people look.

[A]

For people to manage your money. You manage your money with the help of an advisor. And yes, you can outperform the market if you do that.

[C]

Okay. Can I tell you, though, there's a lot of that, of what David just said moving right now in. People aren't wanting financial advisors. They're just wanting to go and invest themselves. Opening a vanguard. That's what a lot of people are feeling.

[A]

Well, the s and P500, the Bogleheads have been around forever. Okay. That's not, that's not new.

[C]

No, I know it's not new, but I'm saying more and more people are not the traditional, hey, I'm going to go and I need a financial advisor to get me in the space. Space is.

[A]

You don't need one to get you in the space. You need one to maximize the space.

[C]

That's it. Well, that's what I'm saying, though, is that it's more. I'm, I'm hearing more and more people.

[A]

People that have a financial advisor have a higher likelihood of staying in when the news on the, when the, when Trump burps and the market goes down. They stay in. And the people that stay in are the ones that make money. And they have a higher probability of picking better mutual funds because they're getting actual. They're learning.

Your smartvestor pro on ramseysolutions.com has to have the heart of a teacher or we won't put him in. Ramsey trusted. We won't put him in there or her in there. Okay. And so, and most of them make a percentage.

Of the amount under management is what they get, usually 1% or so. That's about what they get paid. And so they need to be doing something that outperforms by 1% the amount market, otherwise they're not worth their money, so to speak. So yeah, you get in that. But yeah, but you can.

Bogle started Vanguard and they're called bogleheads. And his premise was correct, he was a genius, was that The S&P 500 outperforms more than half of the mutual funds.

So if you just blindly go pick a mutual fund, you'd have been better off to pick the S&P 500 index, was his point. And that's why he started a no commission, no load s and P500 at Vanguard. And it's the famous thing in the stock market history. And so people that say, I'm not going to think about this, I'm just going to dump it into S&P 500 and I'll at least make what the stock market makes and I'll outperform More than 50% of mutual funds by doing that. Those are called bogleheads. Okay? And they're not new just because TikTok came.

[C]

No, I'm not saying they're new, I'm just saying I'm hearing it. More and more people have the access to it.

[A]

I've heard Dave Ramsey's a crook for 35 years because I told people not to do that and go get, go pay a commission to outperform vocal heads. And Dave Ramsey's not a crook. I'm a genius.

[C]

Yes you are.

[A]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios. There's of a lot, lot of discussion in America today.

About the 20 somethings, the Gen Zers and the millennials having an affordability crisis. A lot of it is centered towards home buying, but it's also just in general. Life is too expensive. We don't make enough, Capitalism is failing us and whatever.

And there is a serious pinch on these two generations. But it is not because things are too expensive. It is because the large banks and the car companies and the US Congress have conspired to screw them.

We have record credit card debt, debt, the most ever. What's in your wallet? Says the actor on the commercial.

Over and over and over and over again.

They've been brainwashed to believe by the big banks that if I use a credit card I can prosper with the points and the airline miles, which is mathematically ludicrous. They've been brainwashed by the lending industry that if they have a high FICO score that they are somehow winning. When 100% of the mathematical items in the algorithm for the FICO score are debt related.

You can inherit a million dollars and your FICO score doesn't change a point. Your boss could give you a million dollar a year raise in your salary and your FICO score doesn't change a point. It is not a financial health score. It is how much you've been screwed by Citibank and Fifth Third and these large banks and Ford Motor Company and General Motors Credit and Chrysler Credit and Lexus Credit. Need I go on with all the credit?

20% of the borrowers that left the car lot last month left with a car payment over $1,000 a month. When you have $1,000 a month car payment or three.

And you're really running up the credit card debt because you're chasing the FICO score that you've been taught to do by these villains.

You have affordability issues. Add to that, we've got 18 year olds that are loaned $100,000 and the loan is guaranteed to be paid by the US government. What bank won't make this loan because they're 100% guaranteed to get their money. It's called a guaranteed student loan. And so of course they're going to want to loan this money. So they loan $100,000 to an 18 year old who can't buy beer.

And they choose a school based on the fact that the street is pretty in front of the school.

This is combined to create a two generations that are completely handcuffed by these mega banks, the US Congress and these car companies. And there's where your affordability crisis is coming from. Yes, if you're in Gen Z, you're feeling a pinch, but you also signed up for it, darling.

And these companies are screwing you. And I think you ought to say enough is enough. If you want to get pissed off at something, it's not capitalism, it's that you got screwed by the mega banks and you need to go back to something like a credit union or a small town local bank where they're not trying to screw you with every transaction.

[C]

And making so much money. Yeah, Newsweek.

[A]

Newsweek is reporting you may not be asking for more credit, but your bank systems were giving it to you anyway. Bank initiated credit limit increases. 4 and 5 credit limit increases in the United States are initiated by the bank rather than requested by the customers. So what's happening with your credit cards is they're sending you a Notice that says, oh, we looked at your situation and you're so valuable that now you don't, you don't have a $5,000 limit, you have an $8,000 limit. You weren't even up to $5,000. You weren't limited, but you now think that you can spend this. And so you go and spend again. Borrowers largely end up using the extra credit. Revolving balances rise by around 30% following these limit increases, indicating that algorithmic decision making has become a major but largely hidden driver of household debt affordability issues.

[C]

And evidence shows that borrowers, they're altering their spending with changes in their credit limit, even if they weren't previously constrained by the credit limit. So it's, it's the mental game, we talk about that. To say that, okay, you know that I'll spend as much with a credit card than a debit card proves to show you if you feel like you have a large amount of money to spend, you will spend it. They're altering their spending spending without even realizing it because the limits are increasing by the banks.

[A]

And then some moron on TikTok who was taught by his communist college professor that capitalism is bad is saying, oh, socialism is the answer, when the problem is not socialism or capitalism. The problem is these banks have been screwing an entire generation and no one's standing up for them. Well, we at Ramsey are standing up for you. We're going to kick your butt while we're doing it because we love you and we want you to get out of debt to. So stop jumping in the bear trap and then expecting not to have your leg torn off. Of course you're going to have pain when you jump in the bear trap. Stay away from the bear trap. These people are not your friends. I know they have a glittering little smile and Bradley Cooper is, is camping out in the lobby. I couldn't give a crap less. It's the most advertised and marketed product on the planet, this thing called debt. These people's job is to screw you. And if you don't make it your job to quit being screwed, then you're gonna have affordability issues, honey, because you're gonna be what we call broke people. So stand up and say, I've had it. I'm not. We're not gonna take it anymore. Play the old rock song right? We're not gonna take it anymore and you know I've had it. I'm not living like this and I'm not gonna play these people's games. If you wanna be pissed off at Capitalism. Capitalism is not your problem. Your problem is you stepped up into the bear trap and the bear ate you. And it wasn't capitalism. It was a bank and a car company and a system that redefines success improperly for you. This is not success. You are not successful when you have a high FICO score. All it means is you gave the bank a whole bunch of interest. That's all a FICO score says. I have an 800 FICO score. And when someone tells me that, I always say I'm so smart. Sorry. I'm so sorry. That's like saying I have high blood pressure and bragging about it. No thank you. Don't do that. I'm so sorry. So if you want to fix your affordability, if you want this generation to fix their affordability issues.

They can buy a house when they don't have twelve hundred dollar car payments and $150,000 student loan debt on a degree in left handed puppetry because they were sold a lie that any degree is valuable and every degree is not valuable.

Oh.

And your FICO score is not a measure of financial wealth or health. It's a measure of how much you've been screwed. When you get that right, you're going to get this whole affordability thing fixed. Boys and girls.

Buying and selling a home is a big deal. And you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent.

Tony is in Tallahassee. Hi Tony, how are you?

[D]

All right. How are you?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[D]

Well, my question is I got a bunch of sterling silver I've been saving up. I started back in 2015, 2017, and I was wondering if I should sell it and turn around and reinvest it in silver coins instead of being.

Sterling.

[A]

Well, I don't buy precious metals as an investment. I don't buy silver as an investment. So I would not. Since I don't do it, I don't advise other people to do it. And my reasoning is very simple. The rate of return sucks.

[D]

Well, I've already made like 66% increase on what I've already purchased. Like I said, I bought it in 2015 when the stock, when the silver was about 15, $20 an OUN. And I've already, you know, got 66% return on my investment already. But I want to get rid of the sterling and invest that in the silver coins.

[A]

2015 you said, right?

[D]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, it was about 16 an ounce. And I'm looking at a chart.

[D]

Right, right.

[A]

And it hovered at 16 an ounce up until about five months ago. So all of our return has come in a recent spike. It's not a steady investment. And following a recent spike in precious metals, you usually see a sharp decline.

It's a great time to sell silver. It's not a great time to buy silver.

[D]

No, no. That's why I'm concerned. If I should just sit on it and watch the stock market, I would.

[A]

Sell it and I would not be invested in silver. I mean, if you like silver, I would just challenge you. Go back and look at the 50 year chart on it. It's basically flat with a couple of spikes. And one of them is in the last two years. It's an unusual spike, but I mean over the last 50 years it's just kind of does nothing. And then all of a sudden there's two places. 2008 and now that there's a spike in the chart and that's it Versus, if you follow the stock market chart, a good s and P500 as an example, we were talking about that earlier. Through that same period of time, it's a stick steady increase. So you know, 23 and 24 were like 20 plus percent on the S and P. The S and P to date in 25 is 17. And so there's 20 something last year, three years that you're going to get your 66 pretty quick in that. And so in a shorter period of time than you got 66. And I don't think that's realistic in the stock market, by the way, but that's what has actually happened during the same period of time that you made 66 on the stock silver. And so I think your number's right, by the way. I'm not saying I'm not challenging your number. I'm just challenging that it's such an, it's an anomaly within the space. And I don't buy things based on anomalies. I buy things based on trends and steady charting. You see, I'm going to see the chart go like steadily up, up, up, up, up, up.

[C]

Yeah. And this chart with silver on your computer, it is all over the map.

[A]

Flat and a little spike and then flat, flat and Then a little spike, and that's it. And so I. I'm, you know, I don't buy stuff like that.

[C]

Sell it now, Tony.

[E]

Sell it all.

[C]

Get out of it. And you'll make the most. You probably will make.

[A]

Yeah. If you wait, it's going to drop. And when you. And you're going to lose the money that you made or that you haven't made because you hadn't sold it, but there you go. Caroline's in Austin, Texas. Hey, Caroline. What's up?

[B]

Hi. So I'm a millennial, and I was one of the millennials that did the stupid thing of, like, go to school and take out, like, whatever loans to get the dream job.

[D]

I did it.

[B]

I got the job. Now I'm 35. Including our house, our remaining school loans, and the final. The final items on our list where debts listed smallest to largest, my husband and I. Now, our remaining debt is. We have, including the house, our school loans, his car, and a business credit card from when he ran his business, we have about $260,000 in debt.

[A]

How much of that is your.

[B]

Our mortgage? We owe 122 on our house.

[A]

Okay, so you have 140,000 in miscellaneous debt. How much of that is student loans?

[B]

I owe 93,000 and my husband owes 22,000.

[A]

So 110 of the 140. So the car and the credit cards and all that are about 30.

[B]

Yes, yes. The vehicle is nine grand.

[A]

And your household income, Your household income is What?

[B]

I make 85 a year. 85 grand a year. And my husband now makes 130k a year. We just established this income.

[A]

Phenomenal, which.

[B]

I was a breadwinner during the pandemic. We've been working the baby step since 2018. Pre pandemic, I was rolling like, an extra thousand towards my.

[A]

How much have you paid off since 2018 to get to here?

[B]

So I. So I went to school for 10 years.

[A]

Now, you said in 2018 you started the baby steps. I asked how much you've been paid off since 2018.

[B]

I paid off $40,000 in my school loans.

[A]

So you've been working them very hard.

[B]

So my husband lost his job, and then we had two babies during the pandemic.

[A]

So you really. But you really made almost no progress on your baby steps is bottom line. Okay.

[D]

All right.

[B]

We listed our smallest to largest debt. We paid off six of the. We have 11 items on the list. We paid off six. So the remaining items are my husband's car, the credit card for my husband's Business.

[A]

I got it.

[B]

And then the student loans in the house. So I received an inheritance of about 600,000 in assets.

[A]

Whoa.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Praise God, Awesomeness 2. So 234,000 is cash, and that's in a savings account. $100,000 is in Exxon stock. And then the other remaining asset of that 600,000 is farmland. That's valued at 250,000.

[A]

So you could sell everything but the farmland and be debt free?

Yes, do it.

[B]

So, so I, so I. So my kids are two and three women.

[A]

Stop. I don't want to hear any stories. Why would you not do that?

[B]

So I am trying to figure out how to take a career pause. So I want to go. Is it dumb to just try to pay off?

[A]

If you paid off everything and kept the farmland and had a paid for house and a farmland and zero debt, no, you wouldn't have a student, you would have a mattress. You wouldn't have any debt, no mortgage, no nothing. Your husband makes what, 130.

[B]

130.

[A]

And you want to quit and come home and live on 130? Sure. You could do that.

[B]

And then our savings will be nothing. Wouldn't that be unwise?

[A]

Your savings would be nothing. You'd have the farmland. No, it's not unwise. You have $130,000 income and zero debt. You ought to be able to invest. Now start investing.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

How old are you? You said you're 30. You said you're 35.

[B]

I'm 35 and I want to take a pause by the time I'm 38.

[A]

Have at it. Take a, take a, take a calculus. Pull it up. Pull up, pull it [e-mail]. okay. Pull up our retirement calculator and put in these numbers. Okay. 15% of 130,000.

For 30 years.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And that's going to be about $17,000, about 1500 bucks a month. That's if your husband never gets a raise and you never go back to work and you save 15% of your income. When you put that in for 35 years, you're going to see $5 million or $6 million dollars.

[B]

Okay? And we'd own our house and we'd.

[A]

Have all that time, you'd have no debt.

[B]

Six million.

[A]

All that time, you'd have no debt. The farmland's going up. The family land and your house is going up. And you're going to go back to work and he's going to get raises. So you're going to end up with $10 million.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, thanks. This is exactly what I needed. Yeah, you got to do it all the day. Okay.

[A]

You got to do it, but you got to do the whole thing. Okay. You can't just.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can't just go, oh, well, something happened. No, no, no, no, no. Nothing happened. We're putting this money aside.

[C]

And Caroline, you know, it's been eight years of you guys working this plan. Like you. And there's car loans in here and all of it.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Like you.

[A]

You guys, stop it.

[C]

Yeah. You guys have to agree that if we're going to go this debt free route, we're going to live that way for the rest of our lives.

[A]

If we get ready to buy a car, we have to save up and pay for it. If we're going on vacation, we have to save up and pay for it. We can't go.

[B]

Absolutely. I've owned my car since 2015.

[A]

But your husband hadn't. Yeah, and you're. And you're married to him, so you haven't owned your car. You haven't owned his car. Quit doing that stuff. Okay.

[C]

It's exciting, though, Caroline. You guys can do this.

[A]

This is awesome. You're in great shape, but you can't fall back off the wagon and hit the numbers. I'm talking about.

[D]

Sam.

[A]

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Christmas is almost here. Our deals are still going strong, though. Grab gifts while you can. These prices won't last much longer and it's not much time to ship stuff. We got to get it to you. Rachel Cruz, sitting right to my right, has three kids. Book One on gratitude. Great books. One on gratitude. One on generosity. One on contentment. They're on sale right now. They're incredible. The illustrations, the stories are amazing. $13 each. If you're shopping for everyone else, our deals are still going. 13 bestselling hardcover or $13 for best selling hardcover books at Ramsey. All of our stuff, just about are there. $13 career $12 for questions for humans cards and $7.99 for audiobooks and ebooks ramseysolutions.com store Eugene and Carol are with us. Hey guys, what's up?

[B]

Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. We're so excited to be here.

[A]

We're glad to have you. I see on my screen you guys are baby steps millionaires. Tell us what your net worth is.

[D]

So, Dave, it is about $2,326,000.

[A]

Good for you. Give me a little breakdown on that. How's that 2 million broken out?

[D]

Yes. So about 950,000 is the home, which we bought 12 years ago for 375. So we're blessed with that retirement. Little bit. About a million.003 emergency fund. 98,000.

For the college we have done for the kids. About $175,000. We have two of them. They're 13 and 12. And in cars we have three vehicles. All pay for about $70,000. Three of them combined.

[A]

And how much of this did you all inherit?

[B]

Zero.

[A]

Zero. I like it. Okay, and your age is right now. How old are you? You?

[D]

I'm 44 and I'm 47.

[A]

Cool. And what were your careers or are your careers?

[B]

I have an mba.

[D]

I mean sales.

[A]

And you're what, Eugene?

[D]

I'm in sales.

[A]

Sales. Okay. And what was your career, Carol, with your mba?

[B]

I worked in marketing. I worked in marketing, Director of marketing for a long time.

[A]

And what's the most you guys have made as a couple in a year?

[B]

About 200,000.

[A]

Okay. And what's the worst year you had as a couple? Income?

[B]

Probably in the beginning. When we first started, we were each making about 30,000 a year.

[A]

Okay. So 60 to 200 was the range. You're 44 and 47. You have 2.3 million. You did not inherit any of it. What was your GPA in college?

[B]

Mine was 3.8 and Eugene, 3 point going to.

[A]

Okay. All right. Smart, but not geniuses. I like it. Very good.

[D]

No, not at all.

[A]

What do you do? What do you drive, Eugene?

[D]

So I have. Well, after becoming millionaires, I bought for my wife a brand new van. Toyota Sienna that she wanted it. We upgraded her. 8 year old Sienna. And I just got a. You're gonna love this, Rachel. A model Y. A Tesla, new.

[C]

I like liked you. I knew I liked you. And the minivan, y' all are like our favorite.

[A]

You're running an eight year old minivan, right?

[C]

We got our brand new one that.

[D]

We have that we have bought. Pretty. We're doing the baby steps.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, you bought the van eight years ago.

[A]

Yeah, when they got the first.

[D]

The old One.

[B]

Yeah, we. So, Dave, when we started the baby steps, we downgraded. I had a really leather seat interior minivan, and we went down to clop seats because we had to get on the plan. And so after we became debt free, Eugene's like, okay, we're gonna go buy you your dream car, which is a van.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

With leather seats and all the bells and whistles.

[C]

I get it.

[A]

Okay, so you're in Miami and I hear an accent. What is your heritage?

[B]

We are from Colombia.

[D]

Our parents are from Colombia. Carol was actually born here in New Jersey.

[C]

Beautiful family. We see the picture right now.

[D]

But I came from Colombia when I was 19 years old.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

With two rolling backs and $90 in my pocket.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

You know, we've been blessed.

[C]

Amazing.

[A]

Yeah. You've worked your tails.

[C]

The American dream is what you've experienced. It's incredible.

[A]

Congratulations. I'm so proud of y'. All. Way to go, guys. Well, I gotta ask you, and I know the answer, but I gotta ask you, can it still be done today?

[B]

Absolutely, it can still be done. You know, you. Sometimes you ask people, what would you say to your younger self? And so it's, you know, this is built on consistency, not on income. You gotta get on financial peace, get on a written budget. You know, you have to really drink the Kool Aid. We teach scu, and we tell people, you cannot do this ish. You can't do this ish. You have to do it fully. You have to live below your means. It absolutely can be done. You sometimes ask people, how do you feel to be a millionaire? Honestly, guys, it doesn't feel like we're millionaires. Most of our money is tied up in retirement and real estate, so we can't.

[A]

You're driving an eight year old Toyota.

[D]

I was still in a budget. Even our two kids, they have their own folder in the EveryDollar app.

[B]

Yes, yes. We go to $6 movies on Tuesdays. Our kids joke around that we still live like no one else in the cheap side, that when are we going to go to the other side?

So, yeah. It's been such an adventure. We're so honored, so honored to talk to you. And Dave, you changed our life in 2016, and.

God put you on our path. And we thought that it was possible and we had a dream, you know, and Proverbs says the fools are headstrong and they do what they like. And wise people take advice. And so we took their advice.

[A]

Wow. Well, we're honored to be a part of your story. You're definitely the hero in the story. Very, very well done. All the way from nothing. From $90 in your pocket and two roller bags to $2.3 million net worth paid for. House retirement's full of a million dollars. No inheritance. They did not inherit their money. So all you people that think that that's what happens, that's not what happens. What happens is sweat and calluses and consistency and flesh, focus and sweat and calluses and consistency and focus and sweat and calluses and consistency and focus. That's what happens. Yeah. You guys are amazing. I'm so, so proud of you. Hey, thanks for sharing your story with us. Okay.

[B]

Thank you, guys. It's such an honor.

[C]

Well done, you guys.

[A]

Very cool. I have decided. We've been interviewing these baby steps millionaires for years now. And I started asking about, I don't know, two years ago when I'm talking to them from what car they're driving, the number of them that have a Toyota of some kind. Not. Not a Hyundai and not a Honda, a Toyota of some kind. I don't know what it is about Toyota.

[C]

They're great cars.

[A]

They are good cars. But it's just very interesting. It's not a. It's not a used Lexus.

[C]

Right. It's a Toyota. Yep, yep.

[A]

You know, and it's just over and over again, I hear Toyota, I hear Toyota. I don't usually hear Tesla. That was a new one. Okay. That doesn't usually come up, but yeah.

[C]

Why am I blanking on my. The toy. Oh, the Odyssey. I was like, why am I blanking on my van? The Toyota van. It's amazing. Oh, no, no, it's a Honda. Honda. Never mind.

[A]

Yours is a Honda. Yeah. Okay.

[C]

I don't know cars that well.

[A]

It's still. Still a minivan, a very nice minivan, but.

[C]

That's right, the Toyota Sienna. That's it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, and that's what they had, the Sienna.

[A]

They had the Sienna.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

But they have a Toyota.

[C]

I hear you.

[E]

I hear you.

[A]

They don't match you exactly. They have minivan and a Tesla, but different brand minivan.

[C]

That's fair. That's fair. Sorry.

[A]

Very cool.

[C]

I don't know why I loved the Toyota idea, but it's just.

[A]

I just run into a lot. And the other thing is, I find that millionaires forgot to upgrade their cars. This one's not too bad. So I didn't. But oftentimes I'm saying, hey, dude, go buy your wife a car. Really? I mean, a 93 Camry and you're worth $4 million. Come on, dude. Time to upgrade the, the car. Pay cash for it, but it's time to upgrade it. Come on, man. Come on, man. And so the number of times I'm telling a millionaire that they need to upgrade their wife, they forgot. They just, they didn't.

[C]

You ever, Will you ever have a self driving car? Any part of you at all? A Tesla? Like, would you ever.

[A]

I hardly ever say never on anything mechanical. I mean, I, I, I, I cannot visualize having a car that I have to plug in the wall. I can't get my head around it, and I can't visualize not having the, the thrill of driving. I love driving a really good car and I, you know, and, and especially a nice, curvy Tennessee mountain road. Right. It's a lot of fun.

[C]

You think you're gonna die if you're in the passenger seat.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm, but I know, I, I think, you know, what is it? Phoenix has got all of the, the Wegos or whatever they're called now. What are they called? The, the self drivers. Yeah.

[C]

Oh, the, the like, yes. Like, it's not like a taxi way mo.

[A]

I got close. Okay. Yeah. Like Henry, Henry Cloud sent me a picture of riding and. No. No driving.

[C]

That's weird. That, that's, that's pretty crazy. Yeah.

[A]

It's one of the best times of the year, but it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, buy, buy. So you start swiping the credit card and suddenly it's January and you got a mess on your hands. Don't let that happen. Tell your money where to go instead of wondering where it went with our budgeting app. Every dollar. Every dollar not only helps you stay on budget and in control of your spending this holiday season, it also helps you find extra margin in your budget. Thousands of dollars of it. And every day will coach you to build better money habits and attack your goals faster than, than ever. So while most people will be starting in January with a taste of regret in their mouth, you'll already be winning. Start every dollar for free by downloading the app today.

Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. So if you've not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? Luke 16, 10 and 11. Nelson Mandela said, money won't create success. The freedom to make it will. Courtney is with us in Tampa. Hi, Courtney. Merry Christmas.

[B]

Yes. Hi. Thank you for having me.

[A]

Sure. What's up?

[B]

I took financial peace University earlier this year, and I'm in baby step two with about 33,000 of remaining credit card debt.

[A]

Good for you.

[B]

I'm wanting to live. Thank you. In baby step seven. So how do I handle wanting to live generously, especially with the recent shutdown and people struggling and working in an area where I think part of it is like, I have cash in my pocket now and I want to. To, you know, give it to the guy that's sitting outside 711 or something. But how do I live generously and feeling like I have the means to do so, but still have my own debt to tackle now?

[A]

Well, you know, baby step two is we're living on a detailed, tight budget. We're not going out to eat. We're not going on vacation, and any money we can squeeze out of anything extra work or underspending or anything, we throw at the small debt, which would not mean there's cash in your pocket.

[B]

Understood.

[A]

So that means it's going on the smallest debt. Now, it's a really good question, though. You've got a great heart, and I will tell you that over the years of doing this, that the people that are motivated by potentially becoming outrageously generous do some of the best work of getting out of debt and building wealth because they have a good reason, a good why for building wealth. The idea that you want to be a baby step seven and give away not just pocket change, but serious money and help somebody in a serious way, that motivator is so noble. It's such a calling on your heart that it will lead you out of debt, a higher probability of getting out of debt and faster than something that you wanted selfishly. So you're an incredible lady. I predict big things for you. What Sharon and I did when we were at this stage.

Because we had the same heart, we desperately wanted to be generous and had no money.

Because all of it was going on debt. So all we did was we just did acts of service.

[C]

And you tithed.

[A]

And so we tithed. We give a tenth of our income. That's a baseline. But above that, we didn't walk around and we didn't. But maybe we couldn't support the homeless shelter with a $50,000 gift, but we could go serve soup. And maybe we couldn't. Maybe we couldn't give the widow down the street that had lost her husband.

A $10,000 gift to help her with anything, but we could Cut her grass and clean out her gutters. And we did.

[C]

And make her dinner, watch the kids.

[A]

While she goes out or something. You can make dinner dinner doesn't cost much. Anything to make dinner for somebody or watch somebody's kids. Like Rachel said, there's all kinds of acts of service that you can do. And honestly, it comes out of the exact same muscle, the exact same place in your home heart that giving monetary gifts does.

[B]

Yes, absolutely.

[A]

Generous people are the ones that hold the door for you at the supermarket.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

You know, and I do love your heart in it, Courtney. And I think the way I would be positioning it in my mind is that if I make a sacrifice right now by cleaning this up, getting out of debt so that I'm in a good place financially, you're going to be able to get give more obviously than now. But even if you lived with debt for the rest of your life, you would always just have some change in your pocket to give the guy versus if you were debt free and you were on a plan. And giving was one of those motivators for a priority for you where you're going to be giving more than maybe the average person that gives. You're. You're going to have the means to be able to do that and even make a bigger impact for somebody. Right. I mean, to go into that single mom and pay her lights for a year, you know, you'll be able to write a check and just do that, but you can't do that right now. Right. And if you live how you're living now, you'll never be able to get to that place where you'll have a lot to be able to give. So there's something about being debt free that frees up your income, not just obviously for yourselves, but for other people of what you're saying. So you get to do even more impact when you are debt free.

[A]

You guys always hear us say, live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. So you have a better quality of life and a higher level of generosity than any anyone else because you paid a price to get there. And the biblical verse that caused us to come up with that saying is no discipline. Seems pleasant at the time. And listen to this from a generosity perspective, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. What's more righteous than generosity? I mean, what's more holy than generosity? Not many things, you know, and so you're really touching the part of your heart that God installed. He installed the whole thing. But the part of Him. That's most. The part of your heart that's most like God when you're giving. He gave his only son. We're celebrating the season. Right.

[C]

I mean, that's his example. He was serving constantly to people. And so, yeah, there is that element that is.

[A]

Yeah, that's interesting. Jesus never gave him a money.

[C]

I don't think he made any.

[A]

I know.

[C]

I guess he did. As a carpenter.

[A]

I guess. Yeah, he did. He had a job.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I think he pulled. I think he pulled. Or Peter, somebody pulled a coin out of the fish's mouth. Right. But give to Caesar what is Caesar's. But I don't think there's. I never thought about it. There's never. There's. It's definitely not a prevalent Bible story of Jesus giving money. But he did give extra service.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Healing on the Sabbath. I mean, you know, on and on. Right.

[C]

Washing the disciples feet. I mean, his life was service.

[A]

Exactly. And that's the ultimate of generosity. Very good, Courtney. You're going to be great. You're already great. Brett is with us in Boise. Hi, Brett. What's up?

[D]

Hi. My question today is me and my wife are about $160,000 in debt right now.

[A]

Good Lord.

[D]

135. Yeah, 135 of that is student loan debt.

[A]

Good Lord.

[D]

On her side. And then 24,000 of that is car debt.

[C]

What's her degree in, Brad?

[D]

Okay, her degree is a bachelor's of science. And then she has a certificate in.

[A]

Business, Bachelor of science. And what?

[D]

That's. I mean, I'm looking at her diploma right now. That's all it says. It's just. It's Bachelor of science.

[A]

What did she study?

[D]

She has a. She has an emphasis on. On biology, I suppose, but.

[A]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[D]

So my question.

[A]

What does she do?

[D]

Oh, she works at St. Luke's Hospital right now.

[A]

What does she make?

[D]

She. She makes about like 17 an hour.

[A]

Whoa.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And what do you make?

[D]

I actually just got back from deployment. I made about 70,000 this last 10 months. But I'm going back to school right now to get an A and T certificate.

[A]

So y' all are broke?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you. Thanks for your service. But dude, you need some income in that house.

[D]

Yeah, that's what we plan on doing. I mean, this next two years, when I go to school, I'm looking at EMP jobs and I mean, I should be making around 30 to $40 an hour.

[A]

Yeah. Why aren't you working while you're in school?

[D]

I am working. London school. I literally Just got back, so I'm.

[A]

Still looking for jobs. The way you were saying it, I thought you were quitting or weren't doing anything. Okay, so are. You're off deployment, but you're not out of the service?

[D]

No, I'm. I'm in the National Guard, so.

[A]

Oh, okay.

Okay.

[D]

Well, we want to go to. We want to go back to school. She wants to get her master's degree, which she will be pocket. Because she can't. She can't find a job right now. She wants to get into dietetics, and she just can't find anything. And she thinks that this master's degree is going to get her a job.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

How old are you guys?

[D]

I'm 25 and she's 23.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Master's degree doesn't solve it.

[A]

No, no.

[D]

You.

[A]

You've got other issues going on. So I. You know, I think there's a lot of possible tracks that she could take with the biology degree. That is a lot better than $17 an hour. Obviously, you could have made $17 an hour without a degree.

Breathing. You can make $17 an hour, so.

Yeah. So, no, I mean, you guys really desperately need to get your income up and then tear through these loans as fast as possible. You got a mess on your hands and going deeper. You can't afford for sure. Good Lord. And, you know, and going more into debt to get. To go get a master's degree to be a dietitian. No, thank you. Thank you. Nope, nope, nope. Look at what the incomes are. Nope. I think you got to study your career tracks and decide where we're going to go and how we're going to pay for it and then save up and get these debts cleaned up. Y' all got a mess on your hands, brother. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[D]

Sa.