Never Rationalize Debt!

Summary

Detailed Summary of "Never Rationalize Debt!" Episode of The Ramsey Show

Introduction

In this episode titled "Never Rationalize Debt!" of The Ramsey Show, host Ken Coleman and co-host George Camel delve into various financial dilemmas faced by listeners. The primary focus revolves around managing debt responsibly, avoiding the temptation to rationalize borrowing, and making sound financial decisions to regain control over one's financial life. Throughout the episode, callers share their personal challenges, seeking expert advice on navigating complex financial situations.

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Caller 1: Cynthia's Struggle with Multiple Housing and Caregiving Responsibilities [02:03]

Cynthia from Tallahassee, Florida, finds herself overwhelmed juggling full-time caregiving for her elderly parents, a demanding job, and the responsibility of maintaining her own home. Both her parents' and her houses were damaged by Hurricane Michael in 2018, leading to substantial financial and emotional strain.

Key Points:

• Overwhelming Responsibilities: Cynthia manages two households and is a full-time caregiver after her husband's passing.
• Financial Burden: Concerned about the high costs of maintaining two properties amidst ongoing responsibilities.
• Decision Dilemma: Contemplates selling her home to reduce financial stress and possibly relocate her parents back to Texas or opt for renting.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman reassures, "We’ll help you win with your money no matter who’s in the White House." [01:05]
• George Camel advises, "It would make sense for you to just move into the parents house if you are the caregiver." [03:42]

Advice Given: George Camel suggests that selling her house and renting could alleviate financial pressure. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining a manageable monthly payment and exploring more affordable housing options, such as condos, to reduce the burden of high rent relative to her income.

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Caller 2: Rob's Career Decision Between Sales and Leadership with Potential Pay Cut [12:10]

Rob from Los Angeles, California, with over 12 years at his current finance company, faces a pivotal career decision. He can either transition to a leadership role with a significant pay cut or continue excelling in his current sales position, which offers higher immediate earnings.

Key Points:

• Career Paths: Option to step into leadership with a potential $80K-$100K pay cut versus staying in sales for higher short-term income.
• Long-Term Earnings: Leadership may offer greater lifetime earnings despite initial salary reduction.
• Job Stability: Concerns about taking on a leadership role "just a tryout" with uncertain rewards.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman critiques the pay cut, saying, "I don’t like the idea of you kicking the tires for what it sounds like seven to eight months as a tryout." [16:36]
• George Camel underscores, "I wouldn’t take this giant pay cut." [17:44]

Advice Given: Both hosts advise against accepting the significant pay cut for the leadership role. Instead, they encourage Rob to leverage his successful sales performance to continue growing within his current trajectory, suggesting that excellence in sales can organically lead to future leadership opportunities without sacrificing his current earnings.

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Caller 3: Vincent's Estate Management Concerns and Family Conflict [20:28]

Vincent from Colorado Springs, Colorado, is grappling with managing his parents' estate as his estranged brother has severed ties. Assigned power of attorney, Vincent seeks guidance on handling property and rental assets amid familial discord.

Key Points:

• Estate Responsibilities: Managing his parents' house and a rental property without his brother’s involvement.
• Family Conflict: Estrangement from his brother complicates decision-making processes.
• Estate Clarity: Lack of clear directives in his parents' will regarding the rental property.

Notable Quotes: George Camel emphasizes, "We're here to help you..., and you do need clarity here." [22:07] Ken Coleman advises, "Do what you think is right, but preferably, engage in clear communication with his parents." [22:03]

Advice Given: The hosts recommend that Vincent have an open discussion with his parents to clarify the terms of the will, specifically regarding the rental property. They stress the importance of setting boundaries and ensuring that estate decisions are documented to prevent future disputes or legal complications.

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Caller 4: Michelle's Question on Divorce and Paying Off Debt [26:38]

Michelle from Seattle, Washington, nearing the end of her divorce, faces a substantial financial obligation. She owes her ex $226,000 for house payments and holds equity in her current home with only $24,000 owed on it.

Key Points:

• Divorce Financials: Significant debt obligation to ex-husband tied to house payments.
• Asset Consideration: Equity in her home presents options for settling the debt.
• Investment Decision: Contemplating whether to withdraw funds from her 401(k) or pursue a cash-out refinance.

Notable Quotes: George Camel warns against tapping into retirement funds: "...repaying through a cash-out refinance is better than withdrawing from your 401k." [27:40] Ken Coleman reiterates, "You are going to be set. Just leave that money alone." [29:08]

Advice Given: The hosts advise Michelle against withdrawing from her 401(k) due to the hefty tax implications. Instead, they recommend pursuing a cash-out refinance, which would allow her to settle the debt without jeopardizing her retirement savings.

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Caller 5: Julie's Complex Financial Situation in Long-term Marriage [41:31]

Julie from Jackson, Mississippi, confronts financial complexities in her 31-year marriage. Her husband's substantial inheritance and business assets remain predominantly in his name, leaving Julie with limited personal financial resources.

Key Points:

• Inheritance Complexity: Significant assets tied to husband's inheritance, with limited funds in Julie's name.
• Account Transparency: Multiple joint and separate accounts create financial opacity.
• Estate Planning: Absence of a will exacerbates potential future conflicts and financial uncertainties.

Notable Quotes: George Camel emphasizes, "We need to figure out where is this money. What are the accounts? Is your name...," promoting financial transparency. [44:15] Ken Coleman stresses, "Get it all... step through all this stuff." [45:25]

Advice Given: The hosts advocate for streamlining and simplifying joint finances. They recommend setting up a single joint checking account to enhance transparency and accountability. Additionally, they urge finalizing a will to ensure clear directives for asset distribution, thereby preventing future disputes and ensuring financial stability within the marriage.

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Caller 6: Omega's Inquiry on Paying for a Sales Leadership Course [51:28]

Omega, a remote sales closer, encounters a dubious opportunity requiring a $5,000 investment in a leadership course to qualify for a position on the team.

Key Points:

• Job Scam Alert: The position demands upfront payment for training, a red flag for potential scams.
• Investment vs. Debt: Omega grapples with the ethics of incurring debt for professional development.
• Sales Industry Cautions: Awareness of predatory practices within online sales roles.

Notable Quotes: Ken Coleman bluntly declares, "It's a scam." [53:20] George Camel warns, "Don't give them a dollar. This is a scam." [53:19]

Advice Given: The hosts unanimously label the opportunity as a scam, advising Omega to avoid any financial commitment. They emphasize that legitimate companies invest in their employees without requiring upfront payments, urging her to seek trustworthy opportunities and utilize free resources for professional growth instead.

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Caller 7: Carlos's Dilemma of Truck Payment vs. Career Shift [74:35]

Carlos from Phoenix, Arizona, a plumber earning approximately $80,000 annually, contemplates whether to continue financing his truck or sell it to eliminate debt. He is also considering a career shift away from plumbing to finance or real estate.

Key Points:

• Debt Management: Balancing truck payments with financial goals.
• Career Transition: Desire to move from plumbing to finance-related roles, despite lack of passion.
• Financial Discipline: Importance of adhering to financial plans without taking on additional debt.

Notable Quotes: Ken Coleman firmly advises, "No, we're definitely not taking a pay cut while in baby step two, period, ever." [75:32] George Camel supports, "Get rid of it. Get rid of it." [77:16]

Advice Given: The hosts recommend selling the truck to eliminate the debt burden, emphasizing that maintaining the truck payments hampers Carlos's ability to progress through the Baby Steps toward financial freedom. They encourage him to focus on his plumbing career to maximize earnings and save aggressively, facilitating a smoother transition into his desired field once debt-free.

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Educational Segment: Understanding the S&P 500 [32:09]

In an educational interlude, George Camel breaks down the fundamentals of the S&P 500 for listeners seeking investment knowledge.

Key Points:

• Definition: The S&P 500 is an index tracking the top 500 publicly traded companies in the U.S., representing approximately 80% of the total stock market value.
• Investment Strategy: Discusses passive investing through index funds versus actively managed mutual funds aimed at outperforming the market.
• Historical Returns: Highlights the average annual return of 10-12%, reinforcing the reliability of the S&P 500 as a benchmark for growth.

Notable Quotes: George Camel explains, "The S&P 500 is an index that measures the top 500 companies and how they perform standard and poor." [32:20] Ken Coleman adds, "It's important not to floor maybe the bottom shelf." [32:37]

Advice Given: Listeners are encouraged to consider diversified, passive investment strategies like index funds to achieve steady growth aligned with historical market performance. George directs listeners to additional resources, emphasizing the importance of informed and strategic investing.

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Conclusion and Additional Offerings

The episode concludes with promotional segments for Ramsey Solutions' products and services, including life insurance through Zander Insurance, mortgage services from Churchill Mortgage, and the Ramsey Network app. Additionally, Ken and George interact with the live audience, sharing personal anecdotes and light-hearted moments to maintain engagement and rapport with listeners.

Key Points:

• Product Promotions: Highlighting relevant financial products and services aligned with the show's mission.
• Audience Engagement: Personal interactions and behind-the-scenes insights foster a connection with the audience.
• Upcoming Events: Announcements regarding tours and exclusive deals to encourage continued listener participation.

Notable Quotes: Ken Coleman enthusiastically states, "This is the Ramsey Show where people bring you in and you just fix everything." [49:45]

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Key Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, the central theme emphasizes the importance of not rationalizing debt and making deliberate, informed financial choices. The hosts advocate for:

• Debt Elimination: Prioritizing the payoff of existing debts to achieve financial freedom.
• Financial Transparency: Maintaining clear and open communication about finances within familial and marital relationships.
• Disciplined Investing: Leveraging smart investment strategies, such as index funds, to build wealth over time.
• Vigilance Against Scams: Recognizing and avoiding predatory financial schemes that promise unrealistic returns or require upfront payments.

By addressing diverse caller scenarios, Ken Coleman and George Camel provide practical, empathetic advice aimed at empowering listeners to take control of their financial destinies without succumbing to unnecessary debt.

Transcript

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome to the Ramsey show where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. Triple eight, eight two five, five two two five. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me on this momentous day. America votes, or in George's case, and millions of people, they've already voted early votes, so.

[George Camel]

And you are, from what I understand, you're big on voting on election day.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm a traditionalist. I like to wake up on this day knowing that I've got a civic duty to perform.

[George Camel]

I respect Christmas.

[Ken Coleman]

A little pump, a little circumstance. That's kind of the way I roll, as you know. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Christmas isn't the same when you open your gifts five days early.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. You know, interesting you say that. I don't like to open up gifts on Christmas Eve.

[George Camel]

Very traditional.

[Ken Coleman]

I like to wait. You know, I respect it. But I tell you what, we. What? It doesn't matter who wins today because we'll be here tomorrow and the next day and the next day. We'll help you win with your money no matter who's in the White House. So calm yourself. You got your money questions, George.

[George Camel]

If they're listening to the show, they're doing pretty good, right? You're doing pretty good. If you're not glued to headlines and instead you're listening to us. That tells me something about how your life is going.

[Ken Coleman]

How are you doing right now?

[George Camel]

I'm doing great.

[Ken Coleman]

You seem to be a, you're, you're, you're a self admitted, anxious person.

[George Camel]

That's true.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you anxious about.

[George Camel]

The more anxious other people get, the calmer I get because I go, oh, gosh, I guess I'm not that anxious.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Yeah, that's kind of interesting.

[George Camel]

That's where I compare.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, well, we're calm. We're clear here today to help you win in those areas. Let's go. Cynthia is joining us in Tallahassee, Florida. Cynthia, how can we help today?

[Cynthia]

Hi, Cynthia. Thanks for having me. I'm kind of nervous.

[Ken Coleman]

You're doing great.

[Cynthia]

Okay. I feel like I'm stuck. I am here in Florida. Originally from Texas, I moved to Florida in 2013 to help my parents. They were, you know, aging, so I wanted to be closer to them. Subsequently got married. We bought a House in 2017. And then both of our houses, my parents house and my house got damaged by the hurricane. Michael in 2018. It took us three years to get both of the houses back together. And you know, with the help of my husband, he was able to help us get it repaired, which was an ordeal that I never want to go through again. My question is this. I don't want to live in Florida anymore, but my parents are elderly. My husband passed away two years ago, so I don't have him to help me anymore. I'm a full time caregiver to them. I have a full time job. Should I sell my house to kind of get that burden off of me? The responsibility of having two houses, caregiver, full time job, is a bit overwhelming. If I sell my house, I'm thinking of renting until I can convince them to go back to Texas or, you know, God forbid, until they pass away, which, you know, none of us know how long we have. But is it a good idea to at least get rid of my house, bank the money, put it in CDs, and then just rent and not have to think about, well, if another hurricane comes, at least I won't be responsible for that house or two houses again.

[George Camel]

What's going on with the other house?

[Cynthia]

That's my parents house. They're. They're living in that house.

[George Camel]

But you own it completely? Is there a mortgage on it?

[Cynthia]

They own it completely.

[George Camel]

Oh, so you don't have two houses?

[Cynthia]

No. You keep saying no.

[Ken Coleman]

I think she means she's responsible for her parents. She's kind of their chief caregiver.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And you would rent. Would it make sense for you to just move into the parents house if you are the caregiver?

[Cynthia]

It would be difficult and be more stressful.

[George Camel]

Okay. I mean, I see no problem with you selling this house and renting. Now we got to look at the long term future of you becoming a homeowner again to reduce your largest fixed expense as you enter into your retirement years especially. But right now you've. You've been through a lot, Cynthia.

[Cynthia]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

I mean, between the damage to the house, the passing of your husband, have you had time to even grieve all of this? Or you've just been in survival mode taking care of mom and dad.

[Cynthia]

Survival mode. You know, Covid hit. We got. Mom got Covid really bad. It was horrible. My husband passed away and she had a major blood clot and she had a stroke and it's just been.

[George Camel]

That's heavy.

[Ken Coleman]

So sorry for you. That's. That's so.

[Cynthia]

Thank you. But I'm blessed. I am blessed.

[George Camel]

What would it look like to rent? What's it going to cost versus your current mortgage payment. Can you financially handle.

[Cynthia]

Yes. I'm looking at apartments that are around 2,000amonth.

[George Camel]

Okay. And what's your take home pay every month?

[Cynthia]

Around 5,000.

[George Camel]

Are you working full time?

[Cynthia]

I am.

[George Camel]

Okay. And did your husband have life insurance? Do you have any other assets?

[Cynthia]

He had a small amount of life insurance. I do have an emergency fund. I have about 50,000 in savings. Good. Maybe about. I carry 5 in checking.

[George Camel]

Do you have any debt other than the mortgage?

[Cynthia]

I have one credit card that has about $900 balance on it.

[Ken Coleman]

Remind us again, what will you make stand to make on this house if you sell it? What will you clear?

[Cynthia]

I'm thinking around 200,000.

[George Camel]

And you would just put that in a high yield savings account? Yeah, for a year or so.

[Cynthia]

Put it someplace where it would draw interest but be safe. I was thinking CDs haven't really gone that far with it, but you know.

[George Camel]

Well, your high yield savings account will have competitive rates while keeping it very safe. It's FDIC insured and so it's not going to disappear. You're not investing this money and it'll just help it grow with, you know, sort of the pace of inflation. If you're talking about 4% right now is what the rates are at.

[Ken Coleman]

I, you know, Cynthia, I don't know George, what you think about this. I don't like the fact that her rent's almost half of her take home pay and. But yet I understand she wants to kind of get out of this house. I wonder if buying a condo or something, that's much better.

[George Camel]

Payment lower.

[Ken Coleman]

Get your payment lower, less expensive. Not have to worry about, you know, like a single unit house and any kind of storm stuff, you know, be a part of something. Have you thought through that? You understand our concern about your rent being almost half of your take home?

[Cynthia]

Yes, I am concerned about that as well.

[Ken Coleman]

What about my idea? There might be a better version of my idea. But what do you think of my idea of buying something much, much smaller? Maybe more of a not, not a single unit home?

[Cynthia]

It's not a bad idea. I don't know the availability in my area. I've not researched it. But I'm willing to do some research on that.

[Ken Coleman]

I think it's worth kicking the tires, don't you?

[Cynthia]

Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

Because what would your ideal number be to pay rent?

[Cynthia]

What would be ideal? 1500 or less would be awesome.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's what I'd be aiming for. What's your mortgage payment now?

[Cynthia]

Around 1500. But I send in a little extra every month towards the principal. So I pay about 18. 1850. Okay.

[George Camel]

What's left on the mortgage?

[Cynthia]

166.

[George Camel]

Okay. Yeah. I would do some more homework, but either way, you know, you're going to be okay. But again, we don't just don't want too much of your world being eaten up by that rent to where you can't accomplish other financial goals and then you have a new version of stress, which is financial stress.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So I think we have to do some homework. I mean you're, it's a rock and a hard place here and I hope it's just a season for you and we can get you to smoother ground soon.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So sorry, Cynthia, for all the storms you've been through, but seems like you got a really great attitude and, and that's what it takes to walk through these times of pain and come out on the other side. So thank you for sharing your story and time with us. Quick break. He's George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Zander Insurance]

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back, America. Thrilled to have you with us. How you doing out there? How you feeling? It's a big day today, I think, isn't it?

[George Camel]

Something a lot of emotions.

[Ken Coleman]

Something going on today. I don't know what's going on. I gotta check the calendar. It's national something day. Isn't it?

[George Camel]

Something. What is it? What do they call it?

[Ken Coleman]

Election day?

[George Camel]

It's it called national election Day?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I was just poking fun at the fact that now we have a national something day every day.

[George Camel]

We had like a cybersecurity awareness month. So I feel like we're Lost the plot here.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we've lost the plot. Tell you what we haven't, we haven't done too much about and that's celebrating Christmas. That's something we can say. It's nice. We're moving into Christmas and that says to me, and I've got some notes here. Once again, Ramsey with the amazing deals around Christmas time. We call it the 50 days of Christmas deals. 50 days, George.

[George Camel]

That's a lot of days.

[Ken Coleman]

A lot of days. So whether you're shopping for yourself or maybe you're looking for the perfect gift this year, the gift that keeps on giving. If you can tell me what movie that's from, you get a bonus point.

[George Camel]

Oh boy. The gift that keeps on giving. Christmas vacation.

[Ken Coleman]

You got it. Very well done, George. Sticker for you.

[George Camel]

Send me the trivia.

[Ken Coleman]

James will get that for you later. You can get up to 30% off on our best selling products. That's what you're going to get in the 50 days of Christmas deals. Break your feet from broke. Hello. There you go.

[George Camel]

That's right. On sale for the first time ever.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Because it's now, it's now reached its capacity of new book status and now almost there.

[George Camel]

We decided to just let it go. Release in January. We're putting up on sale for the first time.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. How about Christmas deals? How about the Get Clear assessment, the very popular tool that we created to help you figure out what's that right. Place on the bus. Right, Right. Seat on the bus. How can I do work that I'm really good at and I get paid? Well, those are just two examples of some of our bestselling products. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com store Ramsaysolutions.com store or click the link in the show notes. Do you folks know that the show Notes, it's kind of like being under the Christmas tree. You get to the show notes, George, and it's like seeing Christmas tree on Christmas morning.

[George Camel]

I never thought.

[Ken Coleman]

Lots of good things. Every show has a few gifts in it. In the show notes.

[George Camel]

You got to go to find out what's in that description.

[Ken Coleman]

So there you go.

[George Camel]

Thank you for that.

[Ken Coleman]

Ramsey Solutions.com giveaway or just go to the Show Notes so we make it easier for you. You have to remember all the links. George wants a link. You don't need a link. You know what you need?

[George Camel]

Show notes.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is. All right, let's go to Rob in Los Angeles, California. Rob, how can we help?

[Rob]

Yes, hi, how's it going? Pleasure speaking with you guys.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet.

[Rob]

Yeah, wonderful. So the situation here is, you know, I've been with my current company, I work in finance. I've been with them going on about. Going on 12 years in June, so 11 and a half years right now. I have two different paths that I can go at the current moment, but I have a little bit of a dilemma trying to figure out which way to go. So in my current role, I'm doing pretty well and I'm making enough money to be happy and comfortable. And I can go into my next role, which would kind of be a step up in a different division of my company, which would be a situation where I'd work with. Be doing a similar thing, but working with larger clientele, which potentially can get me, you know, give me a 20, 30%, you know, pay increase. Or my other situation is that I can stay in my current role and potentially move into leadership with my current company. And the situation there is, you know, I would potentially make a little bit less doing that compared to what I'm doing now, as the leadership role is more of a base salary position with an annual bonus at the end of the year. And my current role is I'm more on the kind of the sales arm and I'm doing really well with the sales part of my job. So going into leadership, I might make a little bit less upfront. However, what I'm struggling with is if I move into leadership over the course of my lifetime, my total lifetime earnings might be higher. So it put me down that career track where I can move into leadership and then potentially do an executive role and make more later on. So I'm just trying to figure out what to do and to throw another curveball into the mix is that I've only been in my current role with my company for about 11 months out of the 1112 years I've been at my current company. So they're trying to figure out which direction to go and.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, which one do you want?

[Rob]

Well, I think I'd like to go into leadership more than anything, but I would be taking a pay cut. That's the.

[Ken Coleman]

How much of a pay cut?

[Rob]

Potentially 80 to $100,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Whoa. And this is with your current company, They've offered you this role?

[Rob]

They haven't offered me the role in writing, so I applied for it, and what they told me is, you know, you know, you're doing a good job. We can. We can see you doing it, but we're not going to give it to you right now. So what they're going to do is there's an opportunity for me with another leader in the company who's going to be. They're not going to be around, let's put it that way. I don't want to give up too much information, but they're not going to be around for seven, eight months. And what they're planning to do is let me take over for that person.

[Ken Coleman]

And that's the first thing you gave us. You gave us two options. Is that the first option you just told me about?

[Rob]

Yeah, that's the leadership track. The other one would basically just be continuing to do sales in my company, both larger clients. And I think I would make more money for the next few years staying on the sales side, but I think over the next 10 years, I would make more in leadership.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I think that's right. But I don't like the idea of you taking an 80 to $100,000 pay cut for that. There's other ways to get into leadership, and it's been my experience, just observing, taking literally over 10,000 calls on the Ken Coleman show and feels like half of them were these kind of questions. If you eventually want to get into leadership, you will have an opportunity to get into leadership. And here's how it works in the American workforce. You keep getting promoted because you're doing a good job and eventually promote you into leadership. So I don't like the idea of you kicking the tires for what it sounds like seven to eight months as a tryout. And even if you win the tryout, your Reward is an 80 to $100,000 pay cut. If I'm a leader in your company, I would look at you and go, rob, I don't. I'm not going to give you this job because this is dumb.

[Vincent]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So, yeah, for that reason, George, tell him that I'm out.

[George Camel]

For those reasons, I'm out. What are you making right now, Rob? What's the total comp. What'd you make last year or in this past 12 months?

[Rob]

Last year, total was around 250, and this year it'll probably be around 280.

[George Camel]

And if you take the new sales job with bigger clientele, you're saying you're going to make 300? 350, 400, potentially, yeah.

[Rob]

I mean, so I've built up a pretty good system doing what I'm doing now, moving into this next, you know, larger sales role, doing what I'm doing, the leadership.

[George Camel]

You're saying they'd pay you like, a 250 base and maybe some bonus on top of that?

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's less than 2. What do we.

[Rob]

I think I. I think it's. I think it's more like 150, 180 base, plus a discretionary bonus at the end of the year. And I have no idea, you know, what that would be.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I doubt the bonus is going to be a total comp.

[Ken Coleman]

It's called discretionary. I don't like discretionary bonuses. I like bonuses based on percentages and things that we agree to.

[George Camel]

So, yeah, I'm with Ken on this. I wouldn't take this giant pay cut.

[Ken Coleman]

No. Rob, do you not see a ladder by you taking this bump in sales? Bigger clients, bigger responsibility, bigger paycheck. Do you not see that that's going to lead to opportunities to lead, whether in your company or outside?

[Rob]

I mean. Yeah, I suppose I do. I suppose I do. Yeah. I mean, I do see an opportunity to do that. I just don't know when to take that, how to take that leap, because I think, you know, it's not a leap.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not a leap. I could see you're still struggling with this because you're a guy who really wants to lead people. You want to.

[Rob]

I do, yes. I know you want to lead it.

[Ken Coleman]

And I think that's great because not a lot of people who take leadership positions want to lead. They just get pushed into it. That's what's wrong with corporate America is.

[George Camel]

If you're really good at sales, they go, great. You're going to be a sales leader.

[Ken Coleman]

And you're like, I don't want to lead people. I just want to sell. You want to lead. Yeah. And for that reason, Rob, there will be no shortage of opportunities for you to lead. I think. You think that you're going to pass up on an opportunity to lead that will never come. That'll never come back to you. And I got to tell you, man, you keep performing in a sales role, it's like showing up at the train station. Here's what I can guarantee you, George. A train will show up. So, yeah, Rob, no, please don't get impatient here. Take the bump. It's a bump in every way. Influence income and opportunity. Take the new sales gig. It'll turn into the leadership influence that you want. You're a good guy, Rob. Trust me on this one. I'm older than you. Unfortunately, this is the Ramsey Show.

[Zander Insurance]

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[George Camel]

NMLS ID 1591 NMLSConsumeraccess.org Equal Housing Lender.

[Ken Coleman]

1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027 welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside. And we are here for you today to help you continue to win in life no matter who wins at the polls today.

[George Camel]

Good reminder.

[Ken Coleman]

There you go. Vincent is going to be the next caller here in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Vincent, how can we help?

[Vincent]

Hey, guys, huge fan. My wife and I are baby step seven and we are FU coordinators.

[Ken Coleman]

But wow, son, thank you.

[Vincent]

Oh, of course. We are taking a break this year because we're having another baby, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, congratulations.

[Vincent]

Thank you. This is a really a future estate question. Let me explain. My brother and his family have completely cut off contact with my parents and now with me and my family. And they've given me the power of attorney, etc. To deal with their estate once that time comes. And here's the tricky part, though. My parents bought and paid for my brother's house almost 20 years ago and still own it and they're still paying for taxes and insurance, etc. They didn't buy me a house, which is not a big problem. But my parents won't give me much more direction other than he gets the house and I would inherit inherit their house upon their death. But my parents have a rental I'd like to have. That's not the will. My question is how do I make these decisions from a moral and financial standpoint if they won't give me direction and my brother's basically gone AWOL from the family?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I think it's pretty simple. The stuff that they're not giving you direction on, you sit down with them and go, mom and dad, this is not fair to me. For you to put me in charge of executing on your will and having some things that need to be dealt with upon your passing that aren't specifically laid out on the will. So please do so.

[George Camel]

And whatever isn't clear, I'm going to just use my best judgment on. And you're, you know.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Then there's no moral problem. If you bring it up to them and they don't make these changes to George's point, then you do what it is you think is right, but I think this is just a sit down conversation. Is there some reason why this hasn't happened or why you haven't gone this route?

[Vincent]

I have spoken to them about. I need some more direction. This needs to be out in the air and I can't get any progress with that.

[Ken Coleman]

Then don't worry about it. Have you done. Have you done all that you can do on this?

[Vincent]

From my standpoint, I believe so. I just don't like the pressure.

[Ken Coleman]

There's no pressure of when no pressure happens. No pressure.

[George Camel]

I'm getting some undertones here that you're resentful towards your brother. Number one, for cutting off all contact. Number two, for being financially irresponsible and then somehow benefiting from it all with mom and dad funding his life and buying his house. Am I incorrect? I would be. I feel I'm resentful toward him, you know, putting myself in your shoes.

[Ken Coleman]

I think I'm more mad about it than Vincent is.

[George Camel]

So is what you're saying, hey, I don't want him to get the house, but that's what they're wanting and I have to follow their wishes.

[Vincent]

I'm okay, I think with him getting the house they already bought him. I don't want to deal with that.

[George Camel]

But you're saying he shouldn't get other things, right?

[Ken Coleman]

I think it's the rental. I think it's the rental. Unless you're not telling us what else is unclear. But one thing we know is unclear is we don't know who gets the rental upon their death.

[Vincent]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

And you want it.

[Vincent]

And I just don't want that to go through courts. I don't want it to go through all the things if it's not in the will.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. Again, I think you stay on them about it to the point that one of two things is going to happen. Either they're going to deal with it because you keep pestering them about it, or they go, okay, you're no longer involved. And then you go, then it's not my problem. But you need closure on it. Closure. And so you need to drive for closure.

[Vincent]

Okay.

[George Camel]

To be unclear is to be unkind, we like to say. And so we need clarity here.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you agree, George, If I go?

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, you need to go say, put the rental in the will.

[George Camel]

I would have the will out going, all right, we're going to update this now. Maybe it's in the presence of an estate attorney where you go, hey, we're going to knock this Thing out once and for all and make sure that the I's are dotted, the T's are crossed, and say, that is my job as power of attorney. This is what I've been tasked with, and you're not allowing me to do this job properly until we get all the details out there and then you can make suggestions and say, here's my suggestion. Clearly, brother has not been financially responsible. He has cut all ties, and therefore, I believe it makes the most sense for me to acquire the rental. He can keep his house. He can keep what he's got going on, but we should not give him any more to manage. That would be unwise. Would you agree?

[Vincent]

I would agree.

[Ken Coleman]

Then lay it out there. Lay it out there along with the boundary of, guys, either take care of this or take me off the situation. I don't want to be stuck with this. I do not want to go to court after your death because you didn't put everything, all of your assets in the will. That's just incredibly insensitive, and you're putting me in a tough situation. I just. I would just hold firm on that.

[Vincent]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Appreciate the call.

[George Camel]

It's far more relational than it is a tactical thing because it sounds like mom and dad still love the. You know, they love their son, even if he has been misbehaving. And the other brother says, I don't want to enable and incentivize this poor behavior by giving him more to manage and.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, but I also think the biggest contention, George, is that he. He doesn't want to go to court. He doesn't want to fight his brother over this asset. Not been stipulated in the will, and he doesn't want to deal with that. I think this. I think he's just exhausted from whatever this drama is. I think that's the driving force. And I understand that things like mom and dad might be kicking this can down the road because they're not ready to decide.

[George Camel]

They're not ready to deal with it either.

[Ken Coleman]

Michelle is up in Seattle, Washington. Michelle, how can we help?

[Michelle]

Hey, there.

[Cynthia]

Thanks so much for taking my call. And thanks for doing what you guys do. I really appreciate.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you. How can we help today?

[George Camel]

Hello? Do we lose you?

[Cynthia]

Are you there?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, we are here.

[George Camel]

Tunnel.

[Ken Coleman]

Michelle, are you. Are you talking to your phone?

[Cynthia]

Oh, shoot. Over. Okay.

[Michelle]

There we go.

[Cynthia]

Now I have you.

[Ken Coleman]

All right.

[Cynthia]

Can you hear me?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Cynthia]

Hey, thanks for doing what you do and being there for all of us. I really appreciate it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, no problem. What's going on?

[Cynthia]

Well, I'm nearing The end of my divorce and I owe my ex 226,000 to buy the house.

[George Camel]

Whoa.

[Cynthia]

Currently we owe. No, no, this is a good thing. There's lots of equity in it. Currently we owe 24,000 on the house. And my question mainly is, I'm 55. I have plenty of money in my 401k to pull out money to pay him off. But tax wise, tax implications, I don't know if that's my best choice. Should I pull the money out of my 401k or should I just refund?

[George Camel]

Can you do a cash out refi?

[Cynthia]

Yes, I could.

[George Camel]

That would be a better option than taking the money out of your 401k mathematically and for your future. Okay, can you afford the payment if you do a cash out refi?

[Cynthia]

Yes, I can. I make about 10 to 12,000.

[Michelle]

10,000?

[Cynthia]

Very conservatively a month.

[George Camel]

Okay, and what do you think the payment would be if you did the cash out refi?

[Cynthia]

Probably 1900 to 2200amonth.

[George Camel]

So we're talking 20% of your take home pay.

[Cynthia]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

That's way better. That's way better.

[Cynthia]

House payment.

[George Camel]

I know, but I also don't want you to pay a 35% tax to rob your retirement and unplug all the future growth. You pop that in a calculator and you'll be like, oh, my gosh. Okay, yeah, let's not lose a million dollars by doing making this move happen. So the cash out refi is the, you know, sort of the least evil of the options. It's still not fun, but that's what we would recommend in a divorce situation.

[Cynthia]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And guess what? You're probably going to knock it out pretty fast.

[Cynthia]

You know, I think I will. I'm pretty disciplined and. All right.

[George Camel]

And you want to keep the house.

[Cynthia]

Interest rates are killing me. Yes, I do.

[George Camel]

Well, the way you're going to pay it off, Truthfully, Michelle, if you crunch the numbers on this as aggressively as you're going to pay this down, making an extra payment or three every month, this thing's gonna get knocked out so fast that the interest is really not gonna be. It's gonna be a nothing burger. At the end of the day, when you own this house free and clear and you didn't touch your nest egg.

[Cynthia]

Okay. All right.

[Zander Insurance]

Just curious.

[Cynthia]

Appreciate you guys in here real quick.

[Ken Coleman]

We only got about 40 seconds, but I'm curious. What do you. What is your 401k nest egg? What is that?

[Cynthia]

850 in my main one and 50,000 in my other yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And how old are you?

[Cynthia]

55. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Unplugging a quarter million dollars and taking a 30 plus percent tax hit.

[Ken Coleman]

No way. You are going to be set. You just leave that money alone. You are going to be a very happy lady.

[Cynthia]

Okay, so I can just rent my little guest house out for income to help me pay extra on the house.

[Ken Coleman]

There we go. George's favorite words. He likes that.

[George Camel]

What's the word?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you're either always like get a roommate or rent your thing out.

[George Camel]

I love that she's getting creative.

[Ken Coleman]

That means that mortgage payment isn't going to be that much when you look at your total.

[George Camel]

Bring your home 10 grand. She's going to be making double triple payments on this thing. It'll be gone in a few years.

[Ken Coleman]

I wonder what she can get for that little guest house. I bet you it's close to the number of her mortgage payment here.

[George Camel]

100%.

[Ken Coleman]

I like that. All right, quick break and we'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Cynthia]

Hey, you guys. When you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example, it might seem weird at first. And that is totally okay. We want you to be weird if that means you're doing things intentionally, including how you spend your healthcare dollars. And one way to be intentional is with Christian healthcare ministries. CHM isn't health insurance. They're a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of healthcare costs without sacrificing their freedom. Programs start as low as $98 a month. Find out more and [e-mail] budget that's chministries.org budget.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. Triple 882-55-5225. Triple 882-55-2225. So we always have live audience that come to the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions and and they watch the show list of the show. We go out during breaks and say hi and take pictures and an awesome guy named Clark. And Clark brought us gifts. And there they are. That's me and George.

[George Camel]

These are custom Funko pops, which I was explaining to Ken is a very popular figurine which I was unaware of.

[Ken Coleman]

What Funko pops were until moments ago and now I'm glad I know about them. And he also brought a themed candle for you, George. And I feel like you got to explain.

[George Camel]

Smells like horse girl energy. So if you remember my famous call where I told the girl to sell her horse and other unkind things and it Literally, somehow the candle smells like I'm in a barn. For good and for bad.

[Ken Coleman]

I smelled it. It's wonderfully done. So thank you, Clark. You're very thoughtful.

[George Camel]

Amazing work.

[Ken Coleman]

Very fun. And so they're gonna sit here.

[George Camel]

And the hair is on point. I just gotta say.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, he's got some nails. He's got really. He's got. He's got your hair. He's got my hair down.

[George Camel]

He's got his glasses, denim jacket.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm known for a paper crinkle, and he's got that.

[George Camel]

And I'm known for my iced coffee.

[Ken Coleman]

And you got your iced coffees, so nailed it. Very fun. So those are going to sit there during the show. In fact, we talked about every time we coast together, we may bring those in.

[George Camel]

I think they have to be staples.

[Ken Coleman]

We need our own custom desk ornaments when we were together.

[George Camel]

There you go.

[Ken Coleman]

A new tradition has started. All right. Speaking of traditions, George, you know I like when you talk nerdy.

[George Camel]

You do like when I talk nerdy to you. And today's.

[Ken Coleman]

What are you going to. I'm told you're going to talk nerdy to me. What?

[George Camel]

What is anything nerdier than the s and P500 standard and poor, baby, that is. If you know, you know. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Well said.

[George Camel]

So we hear about this term all the time in the news. They the s and P500, a lot of people's eyes glaze over. So I'm going to give you the talk nerdy to me. Kind of put the cookies on the floor for everyone listening because we do talk about it a lot.

[Ken Coleman]

And it's important not to floor maybe the bottom shelf.

[George Camel]

Bottom shelf.

[Ken Coleman]

Nobody wants to eat cookies that have been on the floor.

[George Camel]

Five second rule. Yeah. All right. So the s&P 500 is an index that measures the top 500 companies and how they perform standard and poor. That's who's running this thing, an index fund. When you think about it, Ken, we talk about mutual funds a lot. We're talking about a giant group of stocks pooled together. Investors pool their money to purchase these funds and shares. An index fund is a type of mutual fund that buys stock in these 500 companies. When we think about mutual funds, we have the actively managed, professionally managed funds that we talk about a lot on the show. You work with a smartvestor pro and investing professional. They purchase the funds for you. And then there's the S and P, which is considered a passive form of investing. These are passively managed funds because it's just tracking the Index, there's no one that is handpicking the funds and companies that go into this. They're just tracking the top 500 companies. And the S&P 500 now represents about 80% of the total stock market value.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Camel]

And it's largely, if you're talking about the largest companies, these are large cap companies, companies with a large market capitalization. And so if you invest in the S&P 500, your return is going to mirror whatever those 500 companies do. And you will own all 500 stocks in that index if you have an s and P500. And the average annual return, when you look at the history of this thing, has been around 10 to 12% since its inception. When we say on the show, hey, if you invest this much, you expect a 10 to 12% return, it's not out of thin air. This is not our opinion. This is just based on the historical average annual return of the s and P500. Some years it's going gangbusters like we've seen the past few years. Some years it's going to be down, but over time we've seen to 10, 12 plus 10 to 12%. And so the pros of this are you're diversified across investments. When you think about 500 companies, 11 major industries, so you're reducing your risk since your money isn't dependent on one fund's performance. And they're pretty predictable because they're just going to do what the market's doing. So you kind of know now the cons are you're settling for the average returns. So the goal of these actively managed mutual funds is to beat the S&P 500. That's what these investment pros are trying to do, is to handpick the companies and funds they think are going to outperform the index. So that's the simplest version I can give you in one segment, Ken. And for folks out there who are ready to invest, they're excited, they want to learn more. We've got a whole hub that's totally free for you, Ramsaysolutions.com invest and we have a complete guide to investing that's totally free. This is a very in depth resource, but we only give you what you need to know. And you can also click the link in the description in the show notes. Ken if you're listening on YouTube or.

[Ken Coleman]

Podcast, I've been talking about the value of the show notes.

[George Camel]

It's where the magic happens. Go there. You'll get this free complete guide to investing. We'll give you a link to the hub and you'll, you'll feel a lot smarter next time you're, you're at a dinner party.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Your friends bring up the S&P 500. You go, do I know about the S and P?

[Ken Coleman]

And you're going to say. And they're going to go, how do you know all this? And you're going to go, because George Campbell talked nerdy to me one day.

[George Camel]

On the Ramsey Show.

[Ken Coleman]

On the Ramsey Show. So there it is, folks. It's, it's, it's one of the hottest segments on the show. If you want more people, George talking nerdy, let us know. Comment, like subscribe, share all that. And are you adjusting our guys there?

[George Camel]

Yeah, I was seeing if it bobbles. There's no bobble. I was excited to see because I think you've got a great bauble naturally, Ken, on your actual head. So I was excited to see.

[Ken Coleman]

It's funny.

[George Camel]

Ken's does a little wiggle.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm just going to try to do that in between calls there. Stephanie's up next in Phoenix, Arizona. Stephanie, how can we help?

[Cynthia]

Hi, I just had a question. General. So I was in a car accident not too long ago, and because of that, I do have a backup car that I'm currently in and it's a 1996 Chevy Blazer. And it's, it runs good, it has AC, it has a heater. It's perfect as is. But I do commute a lot. So I'm looking to buy a car. I do have money, cash to buy one. But my dad used to be a car salesman and he was saying that I shouldn't use this money to buy the car out cash, that I should get comfortable with paying a little bit of down payment and then make it adjust so that way I'm comfortable with the monthly payment that I receive. But I don't like the idea of debt. I don't like the idea of paying interest because you're paying money for essentially money that you don't have. So I don't really understand that part, but I just, I want a second opinion.

[George Camel]

Well, I'm going to caveat this by saying I'm sure your dad is a lovely, wonderful, intelligent man, but he has been brainwashed by the car industry. And can I tell you, car salesmen have some of the worst money habits. If I had to generalize that I've ever seen in my life. Have you seen these TikTok videos that have been going viral? Tell me they go to car Dealerships. And they go to the staff at the car dealership and they say, what is your payment? What car? These people have like $900 a month payments on these cars. They are so all about their ego. They want to look good. And they say, well, you got to get a new car. Car. It's like asking a dentist if they should. You should get your cavity filled. And so I would strongly encourage you to not take your dad's advice when it comes to buying this car.

[Ken Coleman]

It's. I think it's kind of like somebody who packages drugs telling you that a little bit of drugs are okay.

[George Camel]

Yeah. You know what I mean? It's a little bit too biased. He's a little too close to it. And this idea that we have to just get comfortable with the payment is insane. That's why we're so broke in America, is because we said, well, if I can afford the payment, I'll be fine. And then one day something happened. Life happened. You couldn't afford the payment. You realize you have no margin to actually live your life or invest. And so I would strongly encourage you to use the money you have to buy a car with cash you can actually afford. That's how grandma did it. So how much cash do you have?

[Cynthia]

I'm comfortable spending 15, but I could spend up to 20.

[George Camel]

Oh, you got 20 grand in cash.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a great.

[George Camel]

Just to spend on the car. This is outside of an emergency fund.

[Cynthia]

That's a little. The 5,000 extra would be from the emergency fund. So the 15 isn't separate.

[George Camel]

Let's call it 15. Out the door is what you're wanting. So when you go to shop for a car, you're always looking for the out the door price. And here's the first question they're going to ask. What payment are you looking for? Right. First question they ask if you. If you call a car dealership, that's the key word, that you're about to get scammed. Because all they're looking to do is get you comfortable with the payment and you are then not focused on what the car is actually costing you.

[Cynthia]

Right. That makes sense.

[George Camel]

So that's it. I would be searching an independent used car dealership for this car and searching online to do some research.

[Ken Coleman]

I want to throw an idea at you, George, that I've been kicking around in the old noggin. Okay.

[George Camel]

I've always wondered, what's going on up there.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, nobody really wants to know. Quick question. If you use cash and you buy an older car, a classic, not an Old junker, but a classic antique car. Fix it up. That car now becomes more valuable the longer you have it. Potentially, no, if it's the right car, I've got one in my garage. Yes, it keeps going up.

[George Camel]

Cars can hold their value.

[Ken Coleman]

If you're buying, I think that's people ought to be doing more of that.

[George Camel]

It's not an appreciation to drive it.

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's totally fine. Think about it, George. Come back to me later. This is the Ramsay Show.

[Zander Insurance]

Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well, that's why we created the Ramsey Network app, your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused on reaching your goals. Loaded with over 7,000 hours of Ramsey shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content and no distractions. Plus, you can search specific questions to get more personalized content in seconds. So for the days you need some extra motivation, you'll have proven advice at your fingertips. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good. Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today.

[Ken Coleman]

God bless America, and welcome to the Ramsey Show. This is where we help you, America, win in your life, win with your money, win in your relationships, and win at work. I'm Ken Coleman and George Camel is alongside triple 882-55-2225 is the phone number 888-25-5225. Let's go to Julie in Jackson, Mississippi. Julie, how can we help?

[Michelle]

Well, the problem is we are doing very well, me and my husband. We've been married 31 years and everything together we're worth about 4 million.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[Michelle]

About half of that is his inheritance about. And about half of that inheritance is a million dollars for a company that he inherited that was then bought out. So my question is, I don't have that much that's in my name. I have an account. I have about $100,000 in my name alone. And then I have about another hundred thousand in retirement and that's it. And the rest of it I think of as his. And I know that's not right. I know that's not how I need to be think about it. He doesn't think about it that way. He's told me, as far as I'm concerned, it's Half yours.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you the beneficiary?

[Cynthia]

Are.

[Ken Coleman]

You guys have all that worked out to where you're. You each are the beneficiary of each other's. Like it's actually your money or is it all in his name and nobody even knows that you're there?

[Michelle]

I want to say the business money may be in his name only.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, is it in. Do you guys have a. Does he have a will?

[Michelle]

He won't. He won't do one. I made him do one during COVID but it was sat with a lawyer, talked about it, drew it out, and I've not seen it since then, so I haven't signed one.

[Ken Coleman]

Does that seem strange to you?

[Michelle]

It does. I think he doesn't want to admit he's going to die, and his father was the same way.

[George Camel]

Well, I have heard that if you don't do a will, then you never die. So he has. There's some merit to that argument.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're telling me there's a chance.

[George Camel]

Okay, so there's one piece of homework. We need to get him to finalize this will. Get it signed, sealed, delivered, and that'll get help you both sleep better at night. Number two, we have some homework to do because you said. I want to say that's not going to cut it. We need to figure out where is this money. What are the accounts? Is your name. Are these joint accounts? Are you a beneficiary on these accounts? I think you have a right to know in a marriage.

[Michelle]

Right.

[George Camel]

And so we need to get to the bottom of that part. And then on the other side, we need to figure out what is your next goal. Are you looking to spend more? It sounds like you feel like you have nothing to your name and that you're broke, when really you have a $4 million net worth.

[Michelle]

Right. And I don't know why that is. I don't know why I feel that way.

[George Camel]

Well, what is your. What's your household income?

[Michelle]

I bring in about 2,000amonth, and he brings home 100,000 a year.

[George Camel]

So he's bringing home something closer to seven or eight. Okay, and do you guys have a joint checking account where all this money goes?

[Michelle]

Not all of it. A section of it. There's a checking account that I write from that my Social Security money goes into, and that's all that goes into it. And his name is on that account, but he doesn't use it. And then there's a joint account where he used to put all his bonus money in that I ride joint household expenses. From. But now with the company buyout, he's not going to get in those bonuses anymore. So, I don't know.

[George Camel]

You guys have created a real complex financial situation with 19 accounts floating around out there. I think it's time to streamline and simplify and go. I said, I think it's time for.

[Ken Coleman]

You to fly to their house and spend an afternoon with them. They don't get to get up from the table until they've walked through all this stuff. George, you were talking about this earlier this morning. That's what this calls for.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Now, that's not going to happen. But, Julie, George is going to give you a checklist if. As if he were flying to your house and locking the doors and taking care of business with you two. You guys have got to figure this out.

[George Camel]

Put it all on the table and go. What are all the accounts? What's in every account? What's in my name? What's in your name? How can we simplify all this? I want to be on the same page. We've been married 31 years. We've done really well, sort of accidentally, and now I want to do better intentionally. And that means having one account. All the money flows in, all the money flows out of this joint checking account. That'll give us both transparency, accountability, and it's going to change our marriage for the better.

[Michelle]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Because I'm no longer going to be in the dark. You know exactly what's going on with my money. I know what's going on with your money. Do you think he would be upset with that conversation? Would he shut down? I mean, 31 years.

[Michelle]

I think he would want. I think he would, really. His actual reaction would be, why are you worried about it?

[George Camel]

Well, it's not a worry. It's just that the best marriages have full accountability, full transparency, and. Okay. To. Good marriages can survive with 19 accounts floating around.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, George, but play that out, though. Go deeper than it. I think this is what's going on. So pretend as though you're talking to Julie's husband. And he goes, well, why does this even matter?

[George Camel]

Why is she so worried?

[Ken Coleman]

Go deeper than good marriages and all this. Like, there's some. There's some real reasons as to why this thing is so disjointed and why bring it together? What would you say to him if he pushed you?

[George Camel]

Well, I would say that we're not here to attack you and get you defensive because we don't trust what you're doing with the money. It's just that you are clearly in the dark after 31 years of being married, you have no clue what's going on out there. And if something were to happen to him, that would put you in a real bind while you're grieving, you'd be trying to pick up the pieces from 19 different accounts, trying to find policy numbers.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that true? Does that sound right, Julie?

[Michelle]

Yeah, it would be difficult. I know where all the paperwork is, but yes. And this is something we're going through still with his dad's estate. His dad's estate was still the same way. It still messed up two years after his death.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Camel]

You want to avoid that?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. You guys are searching for coffee tins in the backyard with money. It's a disaster.

[George Camel]

I don't want to have it be a full time job to pick up all the pieces.

[Michelle]

Right.

[George Camel]

And if we can just get ahead of this now, we're going to have. The next 20 years is going to be a dream because we are fully on board on the same page. We know where we're going. We know what's going on.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Cynthia]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

That's the angle.

[George Camel]

And then I think there's another piece where you need to stop acting like you're broke because you're not. You guys make six figures and you need to be on a budget that you both have say in right now. You're living like you get an allowance.

[Michelle]

Right.

[George Camel]

If you wanted to go spend some money. Is it a conversation? Do you just go spend it without telling him what happens?

[Michelle]

Yeah, I do. I spend. But it's my money that I spend.

[George Camel]

So as long as you spend only your money.

[Cynthia]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Well, that feels wild, doesn't it?

[Michelle]

I feel like I have to ask him.

[George Camel]

So he gets to spend five times what you spend because he makes five times more. Is that how it works?

[Michelle]

Yeah, this has been working.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, boy.

[George Camel]

That's a problem.

[Ken Coleman]

How long you been married?

[Michelle]

31 years.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, boy.

[Michelle]

We didn't come into so much money until a couple of years ago.

[George Camel]

My wife now stays at home with her child. If I said, well, honey, you don't bring in any income, so I get to spend all the money. I'll give you a little bit of allowance for some fun, but I get to spend like 10 times more because I'm bringing home, you know where you'd be?

[Ken Coleman]

My guest bedroom. That's where you'd be.

[George Camel]

I'd be lucky to be inside of a house.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, we'd take you in for about a week.

[George Camel]

I might be in a tent in the backyard at that point.

[Ken Coleman]

Julie, I'd let you stay in the backyard yard.

[George Camel]

So I want you to know you have a vote in this marriage. And so far, it sounds like you've had the idea of a vote, but we need to make it very clear, especially on election day, that you have an American right to vote in what happens in your marriage.

[Ken Coleman]

I think this is a clean this mess up with Camel. This is a show where people bring you in and you just fix everything. You just get it all like this. You say, listen, Julie, you sit there. Clarence, you sit there. I feel like her husband's name might be clean.

[George Camel]

It's like hoarders, but I clean up your finances.

[Ken Coleman]

Kind of walk through. All right, Clarence is what we're doing. Julie's is what we're doing. And you just clean it up. You're the cleaner. We'll think about it. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Zander Insurance]

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225. Triple 882-552. I've been told that sometimes I come across like an alpha male. George.

[George Camel]

Literally never heard that in my life.

[Ken Coleman]

You've never heard.

[George Camel]

I appreciate that. Yeah, it's very generous of whoever said that to you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, you know, I was thinking we gotta. Yeah, you think about Alpha because guess who's on the line right now in Los Angeles. Line four. Tell everybody.

[George Camel]

Omega is on the line in Los Angeles.

[Ken Coleman]

Omega is on. This is very fun. This is very exciting. I've never ever actually talked to an Omega before. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Omega]

Heck, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Come on.

[Omega]

I love your introduction.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you. Because I'll be honest with America. James, the producer, was rolling his eyes a little bit. He had a little cringe going on behind the glass. He's a very nice man. He's very kind to me, but he had a little cringe on that. But I knew you would appreciate it and so would America if they stayed with me. So thank you, Omega.

[Omega]

I appreciate it. I appreciate it.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet you should. You got a great name.

[Omega]

You know, a lot of people make that joke, but the way you made it was the special.

[George Camel]

He's a special guy.

[Ken Coleman]

Take that, James. You just made a friend for life. Omega. Omega is my friend, and I'm her friend. So how can we help you today?

[Omega]

Did you guys get my question already, or should I say it all again?

[George Camel]

We don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

We don't know your question.

[George Camel]

They tell us nothing.

[Ken Coleman]

We're flying blind.

[Omega]

Oh, okay. So basically, I'm a remote closer. Basically, sales, online, so phone sales, sales, and DMs. Basically, my goal is to help people make better decisions so that you can improve their life through sales.

[Michelle]

Right, right.

[Omega]

And so usually the goal is to work for programs that offer some sort of solution to someone's problem. And so I am new to the field, and so I recently started applying for jobs. And one of them was for a leadership program where they teach leadership to people so that they can, like, lead their companies better. Right. And so in order to be a part of their team as a remote closer, or DM setter, the woman I spoke to on the phone said that I have to invest in their course first. All of their employees have gone through their course. Their course is $5,000.

[George Camel]

No, I have budgeted you.

[Omega]

Wait. Go ahead.

[Ken Coleman]

Hard pass.

[Cynthia]

Please.

[George Camel]

Don't give them a dollar. This is a scam.

[Ken Coleman]

Scam.

[George Camel]

This is how they're actually making money as a company.

[Ken Coleman]

They're not helping anybody lead.

[George Camel]

It's like a multilevel marketing thing where they go, hey, you got to pay US $5,000 as a startup cost to take this course, to then sell this course. Don't do it. If you know what, Dave Ramsey hires people. He doesn't charge them to go through Financial Peace University.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Hey, as part of a team member, you're going to go through this course. We're paying for it.

[Ken Coleman]

And Omega, legitimate companies, they hire people that they believe they can invest in and get a return on the investment. They don't make people invest in them. They hire them and then they train them legitimate Companies hire people and put real manpower, real resources behind training someone. And so this is all backwards. And I want you to run from this. I cut you off because there is zero reason for you to continue considering this opportunity. It's not an opportunity, it's an absolute trap.

[George Camel]

And I hope you know this, but in the industry you're in, there are a lot of hucksters out there.

[Omega]

In.

[George Camel]

This DM setter, online sales. I think you're in a legitimate field, but I'd be very cautious about what companies I work with.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, Are we still friends?

[Omega]

Okay, we're still friends. I appreciate real truth. That's, that's true friendship right there.

[George Camel]

I don't want you calling us saying, I paid $5,000 for this course to get a job. Did I get scammed?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you should never pay.

[Omega]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

To get hired.

[Omega]

Okay, so that answers that question. Can I have a follow up question?

[Ken Coleman]

We will allow it.

[Omega]

Okay, so when I was on the phone with her, she was telling me all about it, Right. And I told her that my one concern was that I only had a hundred dollars to spend. I have money in my account, but it's all budgeted. I have it in my, in my emergency fund, which by the way, saved my life a week ago.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, hey, hey. All right, we like hearing that.

[Omega]

Uh huh. Yep. And so I have it all budgeted, so I can't spend that. So I only have $100 that I can spend. And I made it a goal earlier, like at the beginning of the summer that I was not going to go into debt. So I told myself, I'm not going into debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[Omega]

And then when I was on the phone with her, she, I told her that I was like, yeah, I mean I could, I could do that, but I don't want to make my parents go in debt for me. I don't want to go in debt for myself. Like I'm gonna like make the money and then pay for the course.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so what's the question?

[Omega]

But so the question is, when I told her that, she basically was like, well, when you're in sales and you're trying to like grow, you're young, you need to invest in yourself. And right now is the ideal time to invest in yourself. And the way she said it was so convincing that it made me like.

[George Camel]

Yeah, she's in sales, She's a huckster.

[Ken Coleman]

Did you do something with it or you. Why are you asking this follow up? We've already told you what we're doing. Why are you asking us this We've already told you, don't spend $100, don't spend a cent with these people.

[George Camel]

You're saying, well, she's saying I should invest in myself. Is that not true?

[Ken Coleman]

Is that what your question is?

[Omega]

Well, my follow up question isn't regarding the course. It's regarding investing in order to get a return later.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, you should. You should invest in an actual course.

[George Camel]

Not from a fake guru.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Not a $5,000 DM setting course.

[Ken Coleman]

If you want to invest in a certification from a legitimate training school or a trade school or something like that that is directly tied to. I now have a skill that I need to be able to climb my ladder. The professional ladder. Yes. Invest in yourself. But can I also say this? I would like you, before you ever spend a nickel right now, investing in yourself as a salesperson, I'd like you to get books from libraries. Libraries. They're free. They're free on sales books. Okay. Or get used books on Amazon. You can get them at a fraction, George. Or how about podcasts on sales and things of that nature? There's so much YouTube that you can do for free. And now we're investing time and investing our focus, not investing a hundred dollars. So you're good, kiddo.

[Omega]

Okay?

[Ken Coleman]

You're good.

[Omega]

So even as a rule of thumb, like, I can just be confident in, like, never going into debt, even if it is alluding to the fact that I'm investing myself, like, just find a.

[Ken Coleman]

Way to go into debt. You should never, you should never rationalize investing in yourself to. To allow yourself to take out debt. You should never go, well, I'm taking out debt, but I'm investing in myself. That's actually not the truth, George. What would you call.

[George Camel]

It's a smarmy sales tactic they're using to go, well, you got to invest in yourself. If you want to make 100 grand, you got to put 5 grand in. That's just how it works in the business. That's the kind of stuff they're telling you. And you need to run far away. I don't know if this industry is even for you because it's mostly for people that fall for scams. And that's not my friend. Omega.

[Zander Insurance]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So I would find a different sales role that's legitimate with a real company that sells a real product. Yeah, not this. We sell sales offers and appointments.

[Ken Coleman]

You can invest in yourself by paying cash. You can invest in yourself by taking free resources. All of that's an investment. It's a false narrative, a faulty notion that you have to go into debt to invest in yourself. So there it is. Omega. Thank you. You are a bright, bright soul. I love it. She's so hungry to win, and she's going to win. But you talk about this a lot in Breaking Free from Broke. You call them traps.

[George Camel]

If you follow the.

[Ken Coleman]

This is another. This is a trap that has now become a trend.

[George Camel]

Well, a lot of young people are falling for it.

[Ken Coleman]

They're hooking people on social media. It's the get rich, quick, all this kind of stuff.

[George Camel]

And there's so many of these guru hucksters out there being like, I'm going to increase your sales by 100x and if you just. I can help you get 900 offers. And it's all just a scam. And here's what they're doing. They're selling their course.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

They're not actually helping anyone.

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[George Camel]

They're just getting a bunch of people to take a course.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And literally trying to trap this young lady. Well, you've got to invest in yourself. This $5,000 you spend with us will be the best investment you ever make. I can hear the crap right now. So. Because we're friends with Omega. I mean, she and I are friends. You are kind of like an acquaintance because you're, you know.

[George Camel]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

But if you're okay with it, I would like to gift her your book, Breaking Free Throw.

[George Camel]

I love that.

[Zander Insurance]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

I think it'll keep her out of these trends and traps.

[George Camel]

So gift her your book. Find the Work youk're Wired to do to get.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's give her the assessment. Omega. Let's. Let's take the assessment as well. I was going to say that, but thank you.

[George Camel]

Help you avoid some traps. How? Clarity around your.

[Ken Coleman]

Find the work you're wired to do. Take the assessment, Omega, and read the book. It's like me coaching you through and then breaking free from broke. You got to read it. Keep you from getting into all of those trends and traps. So it's nice to make friends.

[George Camel]

It's very sweet.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what I'm missing right now?

[George Camel]

What's that?

[Ken Coleman]

My Mr. Rogers cardigan.

[George Camel]

We can get that on the break.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, maybe we'll do that. This is the Ramsey show.

[Zander Insurance]

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show America. Thrilled that you are with us. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. The Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by why refund? Why refi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch and gives you a low fixed rate loan built just for you. Charisse K Lowered her payment from, get this George, $2,000 to $680. Wow. A month with our friends at Yrefi. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[George Camel]

Today's question comes from Cameron in Arizona. My best friend has bounced around schools trying to pursue his dream of being a sports team mascot. He has a math degree, $100,000 in student loan debt, and a terrible living situation with his parents. He can't manage to get any reasonable paying job for a person with his education. He currently earns 17 bucks an hour counting money at a casino. Several years ago I inherited $5.5 million which I've safely invested and have since grown to over 7 million. I've never touched that money except for the house that I paid for in cash and I live off my real income of about 110 grand. Can I gift or lend my friend $100,000 to pay off his loans? If not, why?

[Ken Coleman]

Wow, a lot going on here. But we'll stick to the question at hand. I'll go first because you're the, you.

[George Camel]

Go, I want to hear your take.

[Ken Coleman]

You're the money guy.

[George Camel]

I feel like we're going to agree on this one.

[Ken Coleman]

The question is, can I gift or lend my friend? You can give it, you can lend it, but I think the question is, is it okay? And the answer is I'm going to go 50, 50 split on this one.

[George Camel]

Okay?

[Ken Coleman]

It's okay for you to gift the $100,000 to pay off the loan if it is truly that a gift. And you don't expect anything out of the friendship. You don't expect anything other than I care for my friends so much that I want to help them this way and there's no emotional strings attached. You can do that and I'd be okay with it. But no, you're not lending it because now you're just replacing the, you're moving the debt from one pile to the other and it could create a lot of risk.

[George Camel]

The chances of him ever paying you back is 0% 0.

[Ken Coleman]

So I don't like that. But if, because of the money that this Cameron is telling us, I. If that's what you want to do, you want to give it, that's fine, you can give it. You got a lot of money, you can give them that. I'm not going to say no to that now. If you're asking me what I would do, it would, it would be based on the relationship to where if I felt like this would be a massive hand up to somebody, then, then I'd probably consider it. I don't know that I'd do it. But the question is, George, that I've. That I'm wrestling with on this, I'm really 50, 50 on it. Given the net worth and all this kind of stuff. The question is would it be a hand up? Like would it revolutionize this person's life? Because it sounds like this is a professional surfer and I don't mean that knocking surfers. I'm saying he's just kind of riding the next wave and the next wave, next wave. I think he needs to grow up and he needs to make some real commitments to Growing up to adulting. So from that standpoint, George, I'm a little nervous about that. Does it really help him that much?

[George Camel]

Agreed.

[Ken Coleman]

What are your thoughts?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you. No.

[Zander Insurance]

No.

[George Camel]

Based on principle, I would not do this. Like you said. Can you. You can do whatever you want, but I think it's going to hurt the relationship when you kind of have this handout to him without ever really changing his habits, his behaviors, and clearly his growth is stunted here. And just handing him $100,000 to pay off his debt or do. Lord knows what he would do with it if you just gave it to him. That's a dangerous scenario.

[Ken Coleman]

I would not do that.

[George Camel]

He might use it at the casino he works at. That's frightening.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So, again, I don't think that's. The student loans are just the symptom of a very.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[George Camel]

A much bigger problem, which is this guy has no real life purpose. He's got all this debt. He's living with his parents. He's got the degree with nothing to show for it. He's trying to be a mascot while counting money at a casino. He needs to aim higher in life. And you giving him this money does not solve any of those problems, most likely.

[Ken Coleman]

And that's what I'm getting at. So if it was a true hand up to where his life had changed and it was going to be like, man, this is. This is helping somebody that cannot, in this situation, help themselves. He can. So I understand the heart behind this. I think it's a really, really kind thing to do.

[George Camel]

Feels like we're enabling, but it's like.

[Ken Coleman]

But you would have to know that you're essentially agreeing to burn $100,000.

[George Camel]

Exactly. And this relationship may not get better. And in fact, it probably will get worse because of this transaction. He's going to feel a level of guilt.

[Ken Coleman]

I feel like a softie.

[George Camel]

I can't believe I went harder on that than you. I would never do it personally. I'd never advise anyone to do it. Yeah, but, you know, it's a free country. You can do what you want. When you get 7 million bucks.

[Ken Coleman]

That's the only reason I'm even on that fence.

[George Camel]

But again, that money was given to you to manage through inheritance, and you want to manage it wisely. I don't think giving this money to.

[Ken Coleman]

This person, it doesn't feel like it.

[George Camel]

And wise money management.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. All right.

[George Camel]

It's my take.

[Ken Coleman]

I like it. Sarah's up in Bozeman, Montana. Sarah, how can we help?

[Michelle]

Hi.

[Cynthia]

Thank you. For taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet. What's going on?

[Cynthia]

Yeah, so my husband and I are on baby step number two, and we're hoping to buy a home in about three years.

[Omega]

So my question is about our credit.

[Cynthia]

We each have one credit card each, and we've recently realized it's really not a good thing for him to have a credit card. So he cut it up the other day, which was great. And we like to close the account. But my concern is that we want his score to go down to a zero. What I've read online is that it can take between like 2 and 10 years to do that.

[George Camel]

You read the wrong blog, my friend. It's more like six to 12 months. Yeah, so it's more like six to 12 months. Once you have paid off all of your debts, all the accounts are closed, so no open lines of credit whatsoever. Six to 12 months later, in general, your score will become indeterminable. It doesn't actually go to zero. It'll probably take some dips and then it'll just fall off completely. To where? If, you know, if I check my credit report right now across all three bureaus, it's just going to come back indeterminable. Okay, so when I was in your.

[Cynthia]

Shoes, Sarah, thank you for answering my question.

[George Camel]

Yeah, well, I want to tell you, when I was in your shoes, I paid off my debt and I went to go buy a house with no credit score, and I went through a process called manual underwriting. And that's where they just go through your actual tax returns, you know, your utility bills. As long as you have proof of making payments on some trade lines like your utility bills or cell phone bills, and you have proof that you've made on time rent payments every single month, then they'll grant you a manual underwritten loan and give you a no score loan. So I wouldn't let that stop you and I wouldn't let it keep you playing the credit card game just to keep up a score.

[Cynthia]

Okay, great. I know you guys are not about the car loans and our goal is to never finance the car ever again. We owe about 17 left on my current vehicle. And then we're hoping to be done with the car loans forever. However, we do want a big family, so we're going to be hauling a lot of kids around someday. So we're just kind of keeping that in the back of our mind. If we ever hit a point where we needed a larger vehicle like a van and we didn't have the cash to pay for it, if we have an indeterminable credit score? Are we able to finance a vehicle or is that off the table?

[George Camel]

I feel like we're asking the wrong question here, Sarah. The real question is what must be true for us to be able to pay cash for a reasonable van. The answer then becomes, oh, I guess we're going to buy the $10,000 van with more miles on it and we're going to do a pre purchase inspection. Yeah. Do you see where you see how the mindset shift changes as you get out of debt and decide you're done with it when it's no longer an option, you get creative and you start to go, what can we actually afford? I know, four years from now we're gonna need the van. Cause you don't have a bunch of kids yet, right?

[Cynthia]

Right. We just have two.

[George Camel]

We've got two. So now if I know, hey, two years from now, I'm gonna need a minivan. I wanna buy a $24,000 minivan. That looks awfully like saving 1,000 bucks a month for 24 months.

[Cynthia]

Okay?

[George Camel]

That's how successful people actually hit their goals. Not how can I get the lowest payment, how can I get my score high enough that they financing. That's broke people talking. My friend Sarah is not broke person anymore. She's done with that life. You agree?

[Cynthia]

Yes, I agree.

[Ken Coleman]

And Sarah, you've already got two kiddos. How old are they?

[Omega]

I've got one who's going to be.

[Cynthia]

Two in December and a three month old.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So you already know how quickly a 2 year old destroys the inside of a car. So we don't need a $25,000 van. We need a functional van from a good, you know, automaker that is reliable car.

[George Camel]

They're gonna destroy Carnival and Odyssey.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, they're gonna destroy the inside of it with all the little, you know, the goldfish and the. The things, you know, and they. Everything's sticky and it's like. I try to tell young parents don't go buy a nice car to haul the kids around.

[George Camel]

They just be upset when they draw on it with Sharpie. Yeah, that actually happened to our friend Rachel Cruz.

[Ken Coleman]

Has Mia done this?

[George Camel]

Not yet. She doesn't have access to Sharpies.

[Ken Coleman]

Good Father, this is the Ramsey Show.

[Zander Insurance]

Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. And I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and relationships tour with Dr. John DeLoney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this we'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at.

[Ken Coleman]

Ramsey Solutions.com Tour thank you for listening and watching the Ramsey Show. Triple 882-55-2225 is the phone number. Excited that you're with us. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is joining me and boy, oh boy, we've been talking about this. I mean, we got to be getting close to setting sale, aren't we, George? The live like no one else cruise. March 22nd through 29th, 2025. This is a premium Caribbean cruise. Holland America's new Statendam ship with all the great foods, all the fun things to do, world class content that you can expect on a great cruise like that. Plus you got all the Ramsey personalities speaking. We're gonna be doing some fun stuff together. Country music legend Deanna Carter, Steven Curtis Chapman. Trey Kennedy is a great comedian, kind of known for spoofing. Dave and world class chef Monique Shohan will all be joining the Ramsey personalities, including George and I. So Ramsaysolutions.com Cruise is where you get your ticket. Ramsaysolutions.com Cruise and it's going to be, it's going to be a lot of fun. So we're hitting Turks and caicos, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas and the Bahamas. Have we validated whether or not James is coming? James the producer?

[George Camel]

I don't think he is.

[Ken Coleman]

Get an official word.

[George Camel]

We're not doing any like live Ramsey show. So he's, he's off the hook.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[George Camel]

That week. Yeah. Okay. He'll probably be having his own vacation.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you doing the show while we're on the ship? I don't think so. It's a little too far out.

[George Camel]

We'll all be on the ship. Ken, there'll be no one here to host the Ramsay.

[Ken Coleman]

He'd be doing the hosted.

[George Camel]

That's what James will do it himself.

[Ken Coleman]

I feel like he could do it. It'd be a very chill, very nice version.

[George Camel]

Love to see his impressions of us.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, he could do it.

[George Camel]

Get dark real quick.

[Ken Coleman]

He could do it.

[George Camel]

It'll just mean be me and Kelly.

[Ken Coleman]

Daniel will do a tell all of.

[George Camel]

All our history here. That would actually get the most viewership.

[Ken Coleman]

I think it would actually blow up. Actually probably would. That'd be really great. All right, so you can check it out. Ramsey solutions.com Cruz all right, Carlos is joining us now in Phoenix, Arizona. Carlos, how can we help?

[George Camel]

Hi.

[I]

How you guys doing?

[Ken Coleman]

We're having a blast. How Are you pretty good here?

[I]

So I'm actually in a little bit of, I guess situation here. I'm trying to see what the best course of action would be to make the best decision possible. So I have, I'm currently, I have a car payment right now. It's a truck payment. I got it. I kind of did the baby steps a little bit out of order with my fiance. We got a house built up, the emergency, emergency fund and now we have that car payment. But my biggest issue here is my work. I currently am a plumber full time. I like doing it, everything like that, but it's not really my passion. So I kind of wanted to see if I should turn back the car in to like trade it back in, get rid of that debt. And that's finally, we're over debt, baby step two or if we should look for another job. I keep the car, but I might be taking a little bit of a pay cut.

[Ken Coleman]

No, we're definitely not taking a pay cut while in baby step two, period, ever. So in baby step two. No, because in baby step two and I'm going to go ahead and say baby step three as well. I would never take a pay cut in baby step two or three because those steps as baby step one also requires intensity. And so we want to make the most money we can. And in this situation, you're good at it. You mean it may not be your long term play, but I want you to stay being a plumber and then see if you can pick up extra hours, extra jobs, maybe work for a couple different plumbing companies. I mean, I know they're just about every major city in America. There's a demand for plumbers. So in my case, if I were you, I'd be working extra using that very skilled trade. What do you make per hour?

[I]

Actually piece rate, that's the big thing. So anything I do or everything I do is what I get paid for the day and it makes pretty good. I think overall in the year I make about 80,000.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, so my point is you could get extra work as a plumber. True or false? Yeah. Yes. So that's what I would do. Now I want George to weigh in on this because I tend to be more aggressive on cars. But so in other words, I would get rid of the car, not keep the car payment.

[I]

So if I were to get rid of it right now it's worth around 25 and I will 30. It's a truck. And the reason I actually got it was for the plumbing, like side jobs and everything. Like that because I have a company work truck.

[George Camel]

So you don't need this car.

[I]

I don't need it right now.

[Ken Coleman]

Get rid of it. Get rid of it.

[George Camel]

When you say it's worth 25k, are you talking about trade in value or if you sold it private party?

[I]

If I sold it private party, maybe I'll get like 28, 29.

[George Camel]

Let's do that instead. And then the difference that you can't cover the part you're underwater on, we're going to use the savings to cover that. How much do you have in savings?

[I]

I have about 20,000.

[George Camel]

Oh, you got 20k in savings.

[Ken Coleman]

Perfect. Yeah.

[George Camel]

So you're pretty close to just being able to pay this whole thing off.

[I]

Yeah, that was my other question. Should I completely just go super intense, pay this off and I mean, I'm pretty sure within like two months I can get this.

[George Camel]

So let's say you need another. You need to save up another ten grand to go ahead and just get this thing paid off and leave you with a few thousand in the emergency fund. Then we'll restock the emergency fund. So basically we're doing the baby steps in order.

[Ken Coleman]

So I changed my opinion, George. You know what I'm going to say now?

[George Camel]

Keep the car and aggressively pay it off. Stick to the plumbing jobs. Once you're debt free with the emergency fund, then we can think about the new career path. Yes, and I would, I would liquidate it now. I mean, go down to 1,000 in the emergency fund, put 19 down on that car. That leaves you with 11 left. That's going to really put the fire under you because number one, you're going, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I'm not safe. There goes my emergency fund. And you go, oh gosh, there's only 11,000 left. I'm making good money with between my wife and I's income, getting on a budget, we can knock this out in four months, right?

[I]

Yeah, just about.

[Ken Coleman]

And you bought this truck, you said so that you could do side jobs. How many side jobs have you been doing? What kind of extra income have you been bringing in the last 90 days?

[I]

The last 90 days? It varies, but it could be up to another five to it. Pretty much covers the car payment each month. I gotta say, like 700.

[Ken Coleman]

That's not a lot, my friend. That, you know, I had a sneaky suspicion. And Carlos, I'm not being unkind. I'm on Team Carlos. I had a sneaky suspicion you weren't doing a whole lot of extra work. 500, 700 bucks for a plumber is nothing. You're not, you're not busting it. Get out there and bust it and then you're going to be able to do what George told you to do. That's that. So we're revising our answer. I think in this case, keep the truck, pay it off. Okay, what's the, what do you want to do long term? When you say passion, that makes me nervous sometimes because I want to make sure you got the talent to do it and that you're motivated to do it. So what do you have an idea about what direction you really want to.

[I]

Go that's not too well, like I'm too sure about because I'm also a realtor. I have my real estate license and I do it every year and they're part time and maybe close about like three deals a year. So I'm not too much. But at the same time like I've always been more into like learning about finance and all that type of thing. So maybe like a banker or even helping people out like with their finances. I'm not like the most educated person when it comes to that, but that's something I've always wanted to do.

[Ken Coleman]

So it sounds like to me that's.

[I]

The path to take.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. So there's a way to get sure. And the answer is to get clear. You've got to be clear on what you're really, really good at doing, what work really, really fires you up and then what results you want to contribute to the world. And I'm going to give you because I think you get some work to do on this. But I'm going to give you the book Find the Work youk're Wired to Do. It has the get clear assessment in it and if you'll commit to me to take the 15 to 18 minutes to take the assessment and then take 45 minutes to read this little book that I wrote. It's like me coaching you. It will give you some real ideas and give you a process to confirm which idea you want to go for. And, and that's going to keep you going in this season where you're working a lot, getting out of debt, but stay in the plumber job, figure out your next path and then get the emergency fund fully funded. And then now we start cash flowing, whatever training. So let's say you decide you want to go into begin being an investment coach. You know, I mean, I'm sorry, what is the word, George?

[George Camel]

Financial coach.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you. No, just an advisor like you're doing in retirement.

[George Camel]

Investment advisor.

[Ken Coleman]

Investment. Thank you. I'm in a hurry here. And so, Carlos, if that's what you decide, there's training involved with that. Right. And there's cost. Yep. Now we've got all of our debt gone. We've got our fully funded emergency fund. And so we now have discipline, and we've got margin in cash to be able to pay for the training. And then we step from plumbing work right into this new path. That's what we want for you. Make sense? Yep, that's the path. But you gotta pay this truck off and get out of debt. George.

[George Camel]

I still consider selling it. It sounds like it's weighing on you, and your goals mean more than this truck does. I probably just sell it and cover the underwater difference with your.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, if he sells it, he's got enough cash to go buy a 10, $12,000 truck and still have a nice emergency fund to build on.

[George Camel]

I like this plan.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what I would choose to. I would absolutely choose it. Hey, we gotta let Carlos go. And the rest of you, remember this. If you are not on the radio audience right now, this is the end of the show. But you can go get the rest of it on the Ramsey network app. So just go to the show notes, click on that link, and we'll see you over there. This is the Ramsey show.

[George Camel]

Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey network in the app store store, Google play store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.