No One Makes Good Decisions out of Fear or Desperation

Summary

The Ramsey Show

Episode: No One Makes Good Decisions out of Fear or Desperation
Date: December 18, 2025
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Dr. John DeLoney

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show takes on the timely theme of making financial decisions in the face of fear and desperation—highlighted by real listener calls grappling with everything from addiction and family emergencies to housing, inheritance, and career setbacks. Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney field questions with their trademark blend of tough love, humor, clarity, and practical wisdom, emphasizing that sound decisions are made from a place of calm, knowledge, and planning—not panic.

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Key Discussions & Call Highlights

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1. Gambling’s Devastating Impact on Family Finances

Timestamps: 01:00 – 08:30, 44:48 – 52:30

Chicago Caller: Husband’s Severe Gambling Addiction

• Situation:

  • Husband gambled away most family savings; accumulated $120,000 debt.
  • Family in crisis: counseling ongoing, daughter’s college plans derailed.
  • Caller seeks immediate financial guidance and protection.

• Key Advice:

  • Dr. DeLoney: Daughter's college plans must change—face reality with her ([03:01] “Your daughter’s college plans have probably changed dramatically...she’s not going to go to the college she thought she was going to go to because she don't have the money.”).
  • Dave: Prioritize immediate safety and financial control over long-term investments. Set up personal accounts, centralize income, restrict husband’s access to funds until trust is rebuilt.
    • “I would not be opposed to all the money going into your account and him having visibility on it and having a discussion about it, but no access to it” ([05:22]).
  • Trust must be rebuilt in short, measurable increments (“You get to decide what the path looks like…in 30 or 60 day chunks” – Dr. DeLoney, [07:27]).
  • Resource Recommendation: Henry Cloud’s book Trust for frameworks.
  • Notable Reality Check:
    • Dave: “If he rebuilds trust and over time…then the two of you together ten years from now will be building your retirement plans…Right now I just want short term. I want you to think one year out right now, not ten years.” ([07:03])

Elderly Parent’s Gambling

• Situation:

  • 80-year-old mother spends ~25% of limited Social Security income at casinos.
  • Adult child feels guilt over refusal to financially support addiction.

• Key Advice:

  • Dr. DeLoney: Define “help” – supporting destructive behavior is not help ([47:15] “It requires much more courage to love someone well than to just wuss out and throw money at them.”).
  • Set a boundary: Take over finances only if she consents to stop gambling.
  • Prepare a family plan for when parent can no longer support herself.
  • Normalize difficult feelings: “There’s no bad feelings here. You’re allowed to feel guilty…It’s just what are you going to do next?” ([49:50])

• Memorable Quotes:

  • Dave: “When you assist someone in a self-destructive behavior, that is not help.” ([47:15])
  • Dr. DeLoney: “Feelings don't count. They never matter. Forget them...That's bad too. You have to feel them and then you gotta go do the next right thing. And that's where people get hung up. And it's hard.” ([50:06])

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2. Student Loan Surprises & Old Debts

Timestamps: 10:41 – 19:30

Charlotte Caller: “Zombie” Student Loan Returns After 30 Years

• Situation:

  • Old federal student loan re-emerged; large balance after interest and penalties ($35k+).
  • Frustration over failed discharge in bankruptcy and stalled attempts to negotiate.

• Key Advice:

  • Dave: Federal student loan principal is non-negotiable, but interest/penalties sometimes are—especially if loan reverts to Dept of Education.
  • Strategies:
    • Contact the Dept of Education directly.
    • Leverage congressional representatives to intervene.
    • Connect with legal professionals for mishandled debt.
  • Reality check: These debts “are not bankruptible” ([15:42]).

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3. Housing Insecurity and Changing Life Plans

Timestamps: 22:01 – 31:06

Birmingham Caller: Facing Single Motherhood + New House Commitment

• Situation:

  • Unexpectedly single, pregnant, about to close on a home; savings tied up in down payment; future income uncertain.
  • Wants to avoid debt on furnishings/appliances but is worried about immediate and long-term finances.

• Key Advice:

  • Dave: “You already knew before you called me, this house is going to be trouble because now you are going to be staying in Birmingham as a nurse,” ([28:09]) and income will be sharply reduced.
  • Sell the house after closing to avoid financial collapse.
  • Buy essential appliances secondhand; avoid any new debt.
  • Emotional Support: “This is going to sound silly to say this out loud, but I want you to spend at least a minute being sad that this guy…blew up your life…” – Dr. DeLoney ([27:44])

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4. Navigating Large Gifts with Strings

Timestamps: 33:21 – 38:57

Canadian Caller: Given a $50K Jeep, Should He Sell It?

• Situation:

  • Gifted a high-value vehicle beyond their means; could sell for home down payment but worried about disrespecting intention of older gift-giver.

• Key Advice:

  • Talk to the gift-giver in person and ask for wisdom and blessing before selling.
  • “A gift with this many strings attached is not really a gift.” – Dave ([38:57])
  • If not permitted, keep the car for now; but seek to honor both the relationship and the family’s financial future.

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5. Investments, College and Retirement Fundamentals

Timestamps: 39:23 – 42:30, 87:45 – 93:55

• 529 plans are a better vehicle for college savings than 457/Roth 457 accounts.
  • “Don’t use the wrong tool for the job.” – Dave ([40:05])
• Listener in her late 50s worried it’s too late to start saving for retirement; encouraged to start now and maximize Roth IRA contributions.
  • Reality: $7,500/year invested from 57 to 77 years could grow to over $1 million ([92:12]).
  • “The important part of this whole story is not the car. It is the kid.” – Dave ([99:19]) (see classic car segment below)

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6. Avoiding “Fear Decisions”: Panic and Financial Planning

Timestamps: 79:13 – 86:53

• Young father-to-be considers cashing out 401k to pay off car debt due to anxiety about mounting bills.
• Advice: Never cash out retirement for a car; do detailed budgeting together; let “math, not panic” dictate financial decisions.
  • “Panic makes us make bad decisions. It’s your body screaming at you, you're an emergency. Just start running. I don’t care where.” – Dr. DeLoney ([82:11])

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7. Career & Income Disruptions: From Coal Mining to Car Detailing

Timestamps: 66:39 – 75:32

• Caller’s husband suffered massive injury; workman’s comp expiring; uncertainty about future work and income loss.
• Advice:
  • Use all immediate funds to create a “cash pile” to survive.
  • Encourage spouse to seek purpose and productivity in any capacity, even if he can’t work his old job.
    • “Let’s not start with the premise we're going to lose 80% of our income for the rest of our lives. How about we lost none of our income and we get the benefit of this lawsuit?” – Dave ([71:13])
  • Minimum payments only; “stack cash” until the new normal stabilizes.

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8. Home Sale Dilemmas: Invest, Pay Off, or Both?

Timestamps: 103:56 – 106:35

• Caller weighing whether to use proceeds from a low-yield rental to pay off their primary home, buy additional local rentals, or a combination.
• Advice: Consider a partial 1031 exchange to roll into new property, sheltering tax while also liquidating some investments to clear personal mortgage debt. “Do the math and maximize both opportunities if possible.”

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9. Timeshare Industry Scams & New Legislation

Timestamps: 56:04 – 62:37

• Dave interviews Sen. John Curtis (Utah) regarding a bill to regulate timeshare sales: transparency, penalty-free 14-day cancellation, and full fee disclosures.
  • “If any business is dependent on getting people to do something they don't want to do, then they perhaps should go out of business.” – Sen. Curtis ([57:53])
  • AARP and audience support encouraged for legislative push.

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10. Classic Car Logic – “Make It, Enjoy It, Lose It, Learn”

Timestamps: 97:58 – 103:35

• 16-year-old refurbishes a Trans Am; torn between racing it or selling.
• Perspective:
  • Dave: “The important part of this story is not the car, it’s the kid. This kid has already figured out he is the secret sauce… not the vehicle.” ([99:19])
  • Enjoying the car (and risking “blowing it up”) is a valid, even valuable, part of learning and confidence.

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Notable Quotes

“No one makes good decisions out of fear or desperation.”
— Dave Ramsey (Theme)

“It requires much more courage to love someone well than to just wuss out and throw money at them.” — Dave Ramsey ([47:15])

“Panic makes us make bad decisions. It’s your body screaming at you, you're an emergency. Just start running.”
— Dr. John DeLoney ([82:11])

“A gift with this many strings attached is not really a gift.”
— Dave Ramsey ([38:57])

“You can’t accidentally win with money. You have to have a game plan.”
— Dave Ramsey

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Thematic Insights

• Short-Term Focus Is Key: In crisis or after trauma, prioritize safety, control, and a one-year (not 10-year) horizon.
• Boundaries & Courage: Sometimes love is refusing to enable, even if it feels heartless.
• Transparency and Planning: Knowledge, not panic, must drive action—whether in debt repayment, investing, or big decisions.
• Every Dollar Has a Job: Detailed budgeting—together—relieves anxiety and reveals the true path forward.
• Your Value Drives Wealth, Not the Asset: Whether it’s a car, a house, a job—your skills, courage, and willingness to learn are the “secret sauce.”
• Use the Right Tool: Don’t force fit your money into tools or investments that aren’t built for the goal.

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Segment Timestamps

• [01:00] Severe Gambling Crisis & Family Finances
• [03:01] Facing College Realities After Savings Are Lost
• [05:22] Financial Trust After Addiction
• [10:41] Student Loan “Resurrects” After 30 Years
• [22:01] Buying a Home Before Life Changes
• [33:21] The Dilemma of Large Gifts With Expectations
• [39:23] Saving for College: 529s vs. Other Accounts
• [66:39] Recovering from Life-Altering Career Injury
• [79:13] Panic, Budgeting, and Avoiding Bad Decisions
• [87:45] Is It Too Late to Start Saving for Retirement?
• [97:58] Classic Cars, Teenagers, and Financial Lessons
• [103:56] Rental Property Decisions: Sell, Reinvest, or Pay Down Debt?
• [56:04] Timeshare Industry Scams and Legislative Fixes

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Tone and Style

• Direct, no-nonsense, and sometimes blunt (“No one makes good decisions out of fear or desperation.”)
• Candid about emotions—anger, panic, sadness are all normalized and moved through.
• Solutions are practical, stepwise, and focused on actionable change rather than lofty theory.

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This episode is a tour-de-force through real American financial struggle, illustrating that clarity, communication, and a commitment to incremental change (with a side of humor) can help anyone rise above fear and take back control.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John DeLoney Ramsey personality, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show and number one bestselling author, Ph.D. in counseling. He is my co host today. So if you've got questions about dealing with your family during the holidays, he's here for you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you don't, your family's calling about you.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you don't think there's crazy in your family, that means it's you, because every family's got some crazy. So there it is. That's how that works. And is with us in Chicago. Hi, Ann. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm doing well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay. So almost a month ago, I found out that my husband was gambling online, and all of our savings has pretty much been depleted and we have quite a bit of debt. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he has used up the savings gambling?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much?

[Caller]

Yes, it's a total of 120,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he borrowed money to continue, so.

[Caller]

Yeah. So that's the money that we owe.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe for his gambling?

[Caller]

That is the total. So what.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, 120,000 is the debt that.

[Caller]

We owe in regards to, like, what's been spent from savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, how much did he steal from savings?

[Caller]

I don't. I couldn't even tell you the total. But we're basically starting from square one. So we've. We have found. We've gotten a loan. He's gotten a loan to take care of the debt that he needs to pay back. So I guess my. We're kind of focusing on going to counseling and getting ourselves back into a healthier place independently before we start to kind of focus on next steps with the marriage. But right now I just need to know kind of what. How to prioritize my funds to start replenishing. Like, I have an educator pension, but I know I need to save and invest in addition to that for retirement and to also, like, build up that emergency and saving savings. So I guess I was just looking for some guidance on, like, how to do that while knowing I also have a daughter going off to college next year and just life expenses. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We'Re going to have to be real honest with you. Okay. In a short amount of time. Is that all Right.

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your college, your daughter's college plans have probably changed dramatically.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And y' all are going to have to metabolize that and have an honest, direct conversation with her. But chances are, I'm almost guarantee you she's not going to go to the college she thought she was going to go to because she don't have the money.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. And she's. Yeah, she's aware. She knows.

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're, you're gonna have to set up at least in the short term for the, for the foreseeable future. You have to take, make sure you're safe. Because he's untrustworthy.

[Caller]

Yep. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just going to counseling isn't going to solve his problem. He's got to go to rehab.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's got to get with the Gamblers Anonymous. He, he is, he's got.

[Caller]

Yeah, he's doing that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah, he's been doing that for about five or probably, probably longer than five weeks now. And then seeing a therapist in addition to that. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so number one, so, so your long term issues are he reaches a level of healing and then over time can rebuild trust. It's not instantaneous, but over time he rebuilds trust. And the two of you are handling every dollar in the household together. And before that happens, you're gonna start operating just to take care of you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I really don't care about your teacher's pension and your long term investments right now. I just care more about you having an account with where you're in control of food, shelter, clothing.

[Caller]

Yeah, we kind of did that right away. I got my own checking account established and he has, and then we have a joint one for him to have a portion of his paycheck to go into so he can cover the debt that he's repaying. But I still have like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So what do you make use of that? I guess. How do you make, what do you make?

[Caller]

I. I make about 75,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he make?

[Caller]

I think it's between 90 to 100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And in a month are like our monthly income after taxes and deductions is about 9,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And like I said, probably sit down.

[Dave Ramsey]

With a marriage counselor and get some guidance on this, but I would not be opposed to all the money going into your account and him having visibility on it and having a discussion about it, but no access to it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm in full agreement of that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think his account, his check and your check should deposit into your account.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you pay the debt Bill out of that account. But he's got visibility. I don't mind him knowing what's going on, but I just don't want him to have. I don't want him to have access to money. He's got an addiction, okay. I don't even want him having access to quote unquote, his money to continue his addiction. You follow me?

[Caller]

Yep. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So. Because his track record right now is pretty blemished. So you sound very factual and logical about this. I guess you're the other side of being pissed off to where you can't even breathe.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you detached? Because you have to be.

[Caller]

It's been four weeks of, I don't know, I guess trying to be very solution focused and very, I mean, like I said, we're, you know, we're very much focusing on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, one of two things is going to occur. Long term, one of two things is going to occur. He's going to get well and rebuild trust and never go near these sites again. Never do this stuff again, or you all probably aren't going to be married.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if he rebuilds trust and over time, 10 years from now, has not touched a single, has not lost a single dollar gambling, not, not been on a site at all, and stays completely sober and you guys have rebuilt a marriage, you've rebuilt a relationship, then the two of you together ten years from now will be building your retirement plans. Okay, but if he doesn't and you guys are not together, then. Yeah, then you start asking those questions later about your long term retirement plan. Right now I just want short term. I want you to think one year out right now, not ten years.

[Caller]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And even shorter term, Dave's talking about, he has to rebuild trust. You get to decide what the path looks like and I want you to establish that in 30 or 60 day chunks. And what I mean by that is for the next 30 days, here's what you can do to reestablish trust. And then he gets to decide, do I want to be a part of this marriage or not? But for 60 days, all of this money goes into one account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you can sit by me, but you don't have access to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't mind you seeing everything and even let's talk about what we're going to do with it. That's all fine, you speak into it. But. But you don't have access to any money and your name's off of everything. Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then he gets to choose do I want to be. Stay into this marriage. Yeah, but you get to decide, here's what the. Here's what, here's what reestablishing trust is going to look like for the next 60 days and then the next 60 days after that, and the next 60 days after that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pick up Henry Cloud's book called Trust. It's got some real good frameworks in it on this to have a good discussion about as well. Let's first establish a short term game plan that's solid and you're protected and safe. Then you worry about retirement. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Marie is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey Marie, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi, how are you? Merry Christmas.

[Dave Ramsey]

Merry Christmas. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, thank you. I. This may seem small, but it's something that, yes, I appreciate your help with. I have a federal student loan that I thought had been discharged and 30 some years later it pops up again with some interest smacked on it. It's not a huge amount. It was with that added $14,000 loan with $17,000 interest. I find out about it, I'm like, wow, okay, what do I do? Start?

[Dave Ramsey]

Why did you think it had been discharged?

[Caller]

Well, I had a very bad marriage and I was told by as part of a bankruptcy settlement by probably a second rate lawyer that that had been taken care of, another loan had been discharged. And I just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is this a federally Insured student loan or a private student loan.

[Caller]

A federal. Yeah. And now I know that they're not bankrupt. You die.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, you can't bankrupt. You can't bankrupt out a federal loan.

[Caller]

I understand that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

But it did, in fact, disappear for all those years. I never heard a word. I never. And at that time in my life, I just. There was a lot going on and a lot of trauma, and it just disappeared. I never thought about it. Well, it reappeared. And so then I set about trying to manage it and settle it. And like some people, I did this. I ignored it. And then I signed up for this program called Fresh Start a year ago. I'm like, fine, I'm going to deal with this loan. Well, from 14 to 17, adding on 17, that's 31. All of a sudden it was 33, then 34. And the program was called USAID. And I called them and I said, can I please make a cash settlement? While I was trying to figure out what to do, I've been saving the money. This is the only debt I have, except a very small mortgage. So I have some cash to put towards it. And every time I call to try to settle it, the bill is higher and higher. And now I just was digging through all my paperwork. The last time I heard from them was in September. And I think it was about 35 or $36,000. And I just. I think my thought is if it goes into default, it would revert Back to the U.S. department of Education and I could make a cash payment rather than paying. I think the last payment plan they offered me was about eighteen hundred dollars a month for eight years or something. I mean, it was unbelievable.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know anything about this program, but I don't know that it's going to default back if the government has sold it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, if it was going to default back, it would have defaulted back a long time ago, I think, because it's been unpaid for decades.

[Caller]

I signed up for the program almost a year ago, and interestingly enough, when I was thinking about what I wanted to do with the money, I got an email from them. Like my phone was listening to me. I don't think so. But I got an email from them and it was just saying one of the things they would do would be default. It's back to the Department of Education, which my understanding is they would offer you a cash payment settlement. There could be 80 or 90%. I have appealed, I've sent in letters, I sent in documentation saying I thought it had been nothing, you know, and I get it. There's interest, there's penalties.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The principal is not negotiable, but the interest and penalties are the larger portion on this thing. And that is negotiable when it goes back to the Department of Ed, if you can get it to go back to the Department of Ed. And I'm not positive how to do that in this case. But yeah, you're, you're correct about that, that there is no negotiation on the principle ever on these things. No, but there is, there is on. There is on the interest and on the penalties, particularly on something like this where it's a screwed up deal, you know, and they'll, they will. You know, if you can finally get someone over there with two brain cells to rub together in the Department of Education, then, you know, maybe you can get something to. And talk it through. I don't think this is going to be an easy path and I don't have a really sharp, cutting, direct thing to tell you to do because I don't, I just don't know what to do with this thing. I think I would be calling the department. I think I'd be contacting the Department of Education. You know what else I'll tell you what I would do. Contact your congressman.

[Caller]

Oh, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The congressman's office and tell them what you've got and see if you can get some help and get them to have the Department of Education look at your case and see if you can get some help that way. And most of the congressional offices and the senators offices have someone, have a staffer that is assigned to student loan problems.

[Caller]

Okay, well, that's brilliant. That would be helpful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm just going to try to get, what I want to do is try to get some solid footing and something that we can count, some information we can count on. And so far all you've gotten is the runaround. And I'm afraid I'm giving you the same thing a little bit because I don't really have a good answer. But I am 100% sure that these things are not bankruptible, which you have discovered. You got shystered there all those years ago. And I'm 100% sure that they will not negotiate principle. We have had them when we, one of our coaches would go in and do battle on behalf of the consumer. We have had them work on it as well. And I'll tell you what, we've got a litigation firm that I don't know if they're handling anything on student loan stuff that just became an advertiser. That is representing people where debt has been mishandled and the debt collection process has been mishandled. We can put you in touch with them too, and let's see if. Or we'll get in touch with them on your behalf and see if they can help you or can give you some solid direction because they're solid people and they know what they're doing. So. Yeah, so I'll put you on hold and Christian will pick up and we'll get you signed up for those guys. And Guardian, Guardian litigation, I was trying to remember the name of it. Cut the ads the other day. They just came on with us. But they're helping people that have collectors that are misbehaving, violating federal law on federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. They're representing the, the borrowers against those collectors and having some really good luck in those situations. That's not what this is. But they may have good information on this that can help you. So we'll try them and we'll try the congressman's office and let's see if we can get something moving for you, kiddo.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the only way, Dave, just mechanistically that this could refer back to normally a debtor, like a car, you take out a bad car debt and you don't pay it, they sell that loan to a collection agency for a discount and then the collection agency, whatever they can get from you, that's what, that's how they make the spread. The only way this would work and revert back is if the federal government is not selling the loan, but they're hiring basically a henchman to go get the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no, no. Sometimes the C is a federally insured student loan. So sometimes the, the lender or the owner of the debt gives up and looks at the federal government and says, pay me. You have a guarantee on this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And so then the Department of Education buys the loan at full value, okay? And so they get their money because they have a guarantee on it. They get their. The borrower, the lender gets their money and now the loan actually becomes the property of the federal government, okay? Because they're buying it out. Same thing happens with like an FHA home that gets foreclosed on, okay, that the Federal Housing Administration has guaranteed the loan. So Citibank forecloses on an FHA loan. Hud, Department of Housing Urban Development writes Citibank a check for 100% of that loan of that loan, regardless of what the house is worth. Then they take the house and sell it for whatever they can Get. And so you've got a HUD foreclosure up for sale that the government owns the house because they had to make good on their guarantee was Citibank. And this works exactly the same way as that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So when we think of at the macro level, you know, the debt, the US Debt, none of that's included. None of that's included?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like the liabilities that the government is guaranteed, none of that's wounded.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not, that's not in that number. Okay? Now that number is simply money that treasury bills, treasury bonds that are issued, which is borrowed money, okay? And people buy that and they use that money to fund the amount that they're in the hole called the deficit. Okay? Finally, mortgage rates have dropped. And you know what that means. People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their Home Buyer Edge program gives you peace of mind. In a wild market, you can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com to get started. That's ChurchillMortgage.com this is a paid advertisement.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Home Buyer Edge and Seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in all states or locations. NMLS ID 1591 nmlsconsumeraccess.org/al housing lender.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sienna is with us in Birmingham. Hi Sienna, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well, how about you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

The first, I want to thank you because I've been listening to your show and I have paid down quite a bit of debt. The only thing I have now is student loans. However, I am signing on a home next week. I did put down a down payment. Well, actually I borrowed against my money and put down that down payment and now I am getting ready to close on it. And my question is, I don't Want to make dumb decisions on putting furniture in the home, putting appliances in the home. I'm pregnant and I'm getting ready to go on maternity leave. So I just really don't know what's the best way to do it without going back in debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

To do what?

[Caller]

To furnish the furniture.

And what do you.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you. Where's your furniture now? What furniture have you got now?

[Caller]

It's used furniture that I got from my mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, just put that in there.

[Caller]

Okay, so what about, like, appliances?

[Dave Ramsey]

The house doesn't have appliances.

[Caller]

It has a stove.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what appliances do you need?

[Caller]

A washer, dryer, a refrigerator.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Are you single? Are you married?

[Caller]

I am now newly single, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just divorced?

[Caller]

No. We were getting married and then a big. Who else happened? And now I'm single and I found out a month later that I was pregnant as well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, tell me about this down payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

You. It's an earnest money check, right? Not a down payment?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much did you put up in earnest?

[Caller]

I had the house built. All together, I put up like 36,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

You put the 36,000? Oh, it's. You had the house built, so you put a $36,000 earnest money up. Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did you borrow that money?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, she said she did.

[Caller]

I borrowed 29 of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

From who?

[Caller]

My account.

[Dave Ramsey]

What account?

[Caller]

Like, I borrowed against my own. My own savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

You mean your 401k?

[Caller]

No, I just had it in savings and I just borrowed against it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I see. Okay. Well, that's fairly easy to pay off. Just take your savings and apply it to the debt and be done with it then. Right. So how much do you have in savings?

[Caller]

Well, I have like 20,000 in one account, 45 in another account. And then I did just find this. Had his acorn account that I had started like years back, and it has like 5,000 in that. And I was just going to take it out of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so when you close on the house next week, the 36,000 will apply against all of this. Right. So.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the $45,000 account, for instance, has a $36,000 lien on it. Right. Okay. Are you. Do you have more down payment coming at the closing next week?

[Caller]

I do have closing costs, and that's just about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how much are you. How much do you have to bring to the table next week?

[Caller]

Only like 2400.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so you have $70,000 in those three accounts, minus $29,000 loan. Right, right. So you pay off the $29,000 loan. We use the savings to do that. And 70 minus 29 still leaves you a ton of money, kiddo. I mean, like $41,000.

[Caller]

So I.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you have $41,000, minus 2400, why can't you buy appliances?

[Caller]

Well, the thing is that I want. So I had. I was saving up for a year. My. My mortgage will be three times the amount that I used to pay in rent, and I was saving up for it to have a year because I won't be working.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, so maternity leave is unpaid for you?

[Caller]

Yes. I'm a travel nurse, so I don't have benefits.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what are you going to do after the baby comes and maternity leave is over?

[Caller]

So that's the hard part I'm facing now, because in my mind, before I was pregnant, I was like, oh, I'm just gonna keep doing travel assignments and I'll have it paid off in no time. And so now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, so now. Now you're probably a local nurse so that you can take care of your child, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which is going to be a big pay cut.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can you afford this new house?

[Dave Ramsey]

No. I think you're selling this new house, aren't you?

[Caller]

Oh, am I going to be able to afford it on her?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller]

On a local nurse? Yeah. No, probably not.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. No. Yeah. Does baby daddy know he gets to pay child support on this yet?

[Caller]

He's. He's learned that, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. All right. Oh, my goodness gracious.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can we just say we're about to tell you what to do next? But this is going to sound silly to say this out loud, but I want you to spend at least a minute being sad that this guy. This guy blew up your life. You're not going to be able to have this dream home that you had built from the ground up, and your future plans with this little baby are going to look different.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I would close on the house next week. And after the first of the year, I would contact Ramsey Solutions, go to ramseysolutions.com and contact a Ramsey trusted real estate agent. And I would turn around, put the house back on the market, and let's get it sold before it gets you in trouble. Because you and I know you already knew before you called me, this house is going to be trouble because now you are going to be staying in Birmingham as a nurse, no longer traveling, and that's going to be a 30% pay cut, and you simply can't pay the payments on this house anymore. And all you're going to do is burn through your savings and then you're going to have the same problem. So let's just go ahead and not have the problem. Get rid of the stupid thing. It's just a stupid house and it's, you know, you can live anywhere and go buy you a used washer and dryer on Craigslist and try to find a bargain on some kind of little refrigerator to stick in that hole while you get the house sold. But you don't go buy a big fancy washer and dryer that flies to the moon and back and you don't go buy a refrigerator that has way too many features, just the bare minimum thing that'll get it done. A used washer and dryer, maybe a used refrigerator, but go pick up something, just an inexpensive something on sale after the first of the year. Year with cash. You've got the cash and then you hoard cash, you save the cash, you watch the cash to do what you were talking about. But let's turn around and get the house right back on the market and get rid of it because you've got to reset your life in a way you had no idea it was going to be because you thought I was getting married and there was no baby. And now I've got a baby and I'm not getting married. And so I'm staying home taking care of this baby. I'm not going to be able to be a travel nurse and it's going to change. Your John's right. It's very sad. It's tragic what you've got, you know, the way this is unfolded for you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you also don't have. Again, this is. All due respect, I don't think you can afford maternity leave.

[Caller]

And that's what I'm afraid of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can't.

[Caller]

I've been trying to, like, double up, but I'm also like, very tired and hurting at the same time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you got family in the area?

[Caller]

No.

I do. So. I also have two other girls and my mom helps with them, but I mean, I can't help, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

How were you traveling with the other two girls?

[Caller]

My mom helps with them.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you'd be out of town for like a week and your mom kept them?

[Caller]

No, I would travel an hour and a half every day or I would travel there and work like four days and then travel back. Yeah, and then work PRN where I'm at. Okay, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, if you can continue to do that, if you can continue to do that after the baby comes for a period of time, if your mom can handle the newborn, that's gonna be a wise thing. Just from a math standpoint. I know it's hard, but this whole situation's hard. But get rid of this house. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you. I'm sorry, kiddo.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I hate this for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, what a horrible mess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hate it for you. God, makes me sick.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys. I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest. Early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got netsuite. That was years ago and we've never looked back. See, netsuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business. For real time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time, and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour [e-mail] Ramsey. That's netsuite.com Ramsey. In Canada. Hey, Scott, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, I'm doing well. Thank you, Dave and John, for your, for your ministry. My wife and I really appreciate it. I just have a question about a vehicle that my wife and I were recently given. It's a 2023 Jeep Wrangler. It's worth about 50, just over $50,000 and we make about $35,000 a year. I'm a plumbing apprentice and my wife is at home with our five month old son. And we are currently, we're debt free completely. We're renting a house and we have a great renting situation. We're just saving up for a down payment on a home. And we were just wanted to get some wisdom on this vehicle that we've been given if we should keep it and have a safe and reliable vehicle for the next many years or if we should maybe consider selling it and put that towards a down payment on a home. But it was a gift and so there's kind Of a little moral dilemma there. And yeah, we just wanted some wisdom on what to do with this vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not counting the moral dilemma. I would sell it and buy a $20,000 car and put 30,000 in the bank. But now what's the moral dilemma? Does somebody have give it to you? They give you a gift and expect you to keep it?

[Caller]

Yeah. So the way we came about this is a family friend passed away and he gave all of his estate to another family friend who's 96 years old. This 96 year old, he gave us this Jeep and from the estate. And yeah, I'm pretty confident that he probably wouldn't have given it to us if he knew that or thought that we would just sell it right away. Yeah, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was a car he owned or a car that was in the estate or something. He didn't buy it to give to you, right?

[Caller]

No, he didn't buy it to give it to us. He received it through the estate of another family friend and then he gave it to us from there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How are you connected to this guy? Is he friends with your parents or is he just a neighborhood?

[Caller]

Yeah, he's. He's friends with my dad.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you talked to your dad about it?

[Caller]

Yeah, and he is leaning more towards keeping it and driving it for the next 15 years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's awfully optimistic with a Jeep, but that's another conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, I mean, it's found money and I'm not going to sever a relationship over it. If you have to drive it, you have to drive it. But I probably am having a cup of coffee in person with the 96 year old and saying, hey, I got little babies, a wife. We need a house more than we need a car. This gift is incredible. I want to honor you and thank you for that. But it's way more car than we could have and we could do with a lot less car and a good down payment on a house better. And I would think that, you know, that you probably would tell me that buying a house is more important than buying a car. And so I'm asking your permission to help me buy a house with this money and by selling the car, moving down. And I'm asking for your blessing on that. I don't want to hurt your feelings. I don't want to seem ungrateful or dishonoring to you or to the gift and see what the reaction is. What do you think the reaction will be? You know the guy?

[Caller]

I don't know him super well actually, but he's a. He's a very nice man. So I think he would, probably wouldn't be too hurt by that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One of the greatest questions an older man can be asked is, can I get your wisdom on something?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I want to get your wisdom on something. Here's what I'm thinking. I mean, I've got a little, I've got babies and a young wife and we need a house more than we need a fancy car. And I'm really, I want to be, you know, careful to honor you and honor how generous you've been. Thank you. And I never would do something without talking to you. And I'm asking your wisdom on this. It feels like to me that I'd be better off driving a $20,000 car with a $30,000 down payment on a house than driving a $50,000 car which is going down in value like a rock. And I promise you, cheap wrangler is going down in value like a rock. That 50 is going to be worth 20 in 30 seconds.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If somebody came to me and asked me that, I would 99 of the time, if I'd given somebody like a, an heirloom rifle that my great granddad owned, I would say I, I don't want this sold. Right. I gave it to you to entrust it to you. But if it was a car that somebody else gave me because they passed away and then I've got it and I've, I've got about 30 minutes left on this life, I would say, bro, get yourself a house, take care of your babies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And I think most people would, except apparently your dad. But yeah, but your dad's like wrong. But, you know, other than that. But yeah, so I, I think you sit down in person, have a cup of coffee with the guy, maybe even take your wife and the two of you sit down and just say, number one, we want to say thank you. We want to be grateful. We don't want to be entitled. We don't want to seem bratty. We want to honor you and honor the gift and we need your wisdom on something. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You've changed our life. So thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, thank you. This is incredible. It's mind blowing. And we need your wisdom on something. Here's what we think makes sense. What do you think? And that's. I, I think you'll get a positive response. And then I'd sell the car.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you don't get a positive response, you get an answer and then you can move on with your life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You just drive the stupid car. Yeah. I mean, I, I Would. I would have to honor it if he holds you to it. But I just. It's a very unusual human being that's gonna do that. He's got some control issues in himself or something else going on. By the way, folks, a gift with this many strings attached is not really a gift. Okay? So, yeah, Jimmy's in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey, Jimmy, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey.

I'm wondering if I should get a 529 plan for my children when you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

At baby step five. Yes.

[Caller]

Okay. Well, I don't make a ton of money and I guess I'm wondering, is it, is it better? I have. I'm a teacher, so I have state teachers retirement, which is about 15% of my income that goes into that. And I'm wondering if it's better to put additional money into a 457.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're better off to put it into a 529.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

529 grows tax free. 457 grows tax deferred.

[Caller]

Okay. And I. Well, I do have a Roth 457.

[Dave Ramsey]

I still wouldn't do it. I still would do it. I still would have a 529 that's growing tax free for your kids college, when you're able to do that and ready to do that at baby step five. But don't use, don't use the wrong tool for the job.

[Caller]

Okay? Yeah, I'm definitely there at baby step five.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And Jimmy, let me tell you this. I was a high school teacher in a public high school. I was an elementary school teacher at a private school. I was a university administrator. You know what? All of those had some sort of education plan for my kids. And so I didn't open up one. I had no idea that this thing called a podcast was going to come my way down the road.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know what I mean? And so you can have the best laid plans right now. You just don't know what the world's going to look like five or ten years from now. When I started teaching, there was no such thing as a podcast. It didn't exist. YouTube was just enough. It wasn't a thing. It didn't exist. And so, man, plan for the future that you want, not the one you think you're going to have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Three cats chasing a laser.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pew, Pew. Classic YouTube line. Yeah. Yeah, I think use the right tool for the right job, you know, don't save up for a house using your Roth ira, people. That's not what it's for. Okay? Don't save up for your kids college using something other than a college fund or a. Just a mutual fund that you have earmarked for college if you, if you want to go that way. But no, I, I wouldn't do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I remember Dave, I was working on some. A wood project for years. I would just tool around in the garage and I would never buy chisels. I always thought I just do this with a screwdriver and hammer and I finally broke down and bought chisels.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was amazing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It was amazing how much better that tool worked. The right tool for the right job.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you squ. Using a flathead to do your.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh my gosh. Yeah. No kidding. Yeah, that. You know, don't try to trick stuff. Just keep it real simple, real clean. Be the tortoise, don't be the hare. Don't look for a way to hack. Don't look for a hack. The hack is live on less than you make. Give some and save some.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Ta da.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's your hack. This is Dave Ramsey. We all want to know that the money we give to charity is doing something that matters. That it's making a real change, giving someone lasting hope. And here's one way to make sure of that. Give to preborn. They're the real deal. Proven transparent and changing lives every day. I trust preborn, and you can too. They're on the front lines of the battle for life, partnering with clinics to offer free ultrasounds to mothers in crisis. Because when a mom sees her baby on that screen, something changes. It's not just a decision anymore. It's a person. And 80% of the time when a mom sees that ultrasound, she chooses life. Your $28 gift provides one of those ultrasounds, just 28 bucks, to be the reason someone chooses life. And at every clinic, the gospel is shared. Giving moms the chance to choose life and find real hope in Christ. $28. One ultrasound, one heartbeat. One mom who realizes she's not alone. That's the kind of life changing impact your giving makes through preborn. Go now to Preborn.com Ramsey or call 855-601-2229. That's Preborn.com Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Tom is in Syracuse, New York. Hey, Tom. Merry Christmas.

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

I just needed some advice on, I guess, how to deal with a parent who has developed a gambling addiction. She's elderly. I lost my dad about five years ago and she was not left in great shape financially. So when he was alive and in the last, say four or five years, we would pick up some of her bills here and there and we found out about the gambling addiction. She lives on just Social Security and loses about 25% of that to a casino.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is she?

[Caller]

She's 80 and loses. Lives on like $2,300 and lost, you know, over about $7,000 last year. So I guess I just have a lot of guilt as to not, not helping her really with her bills any longer because of the gambling addiction. I talked to her about it and for example, we know in about a year she's going to need a car and I'm not willing to give her the money for the car since I know a large portion of her money goes towards gambling. But I've developed a lot of guilt because of this because I guess we're fairly fortunate financially. So I don't know the next.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What you, I don't understand your question. What's your question?

[Caller]

Well, the other shoe is going to drop soon. And, and should I be funding her even though she has this, this addiction? Should I be taking care of her bills? She'll never go without food or shelter.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure. Well, so at the end of the day when one of the hardest things in the world to do is when somebody you love, and in this case your mom, so that's like the, like the epicenter of love, right? It's your mom. When your mom says, and when a loved one says, I don't want your help, and you know, you see the train coming down the tracks, you know they're going to need it. But the boundary right now is for right now I'm, I'm not going to pay, I'm not going to bail you out anymore. And then when the day comes that she's moving into your house, which you know is going to come sooner rather than later, then you will be able to make choices for how you help and support and love her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The thing is you have to define help. And when you assist someone in a self destructive behavior, that is not help. No, when you buy a drunk or drink, it's not help. And so, you know, and that's what you're facing. And so, yeah, it's just, it's heartbreaking, but it's very hard to love some. It requires much more courage to love someone well than to just wuss out and throw money at them.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, yeah, you know, the other. The other extreme is this, Mom, I'm more than happy to take care of you and make sure you're okay, but in order for me to do that, I will have to take over all your money and manage it for you, and you will never be in a casino again.

[Caller]

Which we've discussed. And she will not. Yeah, will not do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, she's not gonna do that. So she's choosing to stand in front of a train and she's an incompetent, quote unquote, you know, doctor has not declared her early onset or something like that. She's, you know, legally competent adult. And so the law says she gets to do stupid stuff because stupid is not illegal yet. Our prisons would be vastly overcrowded. But, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So are you married?

[Caller]

I am. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I. I think the more productive use of this guilt and these feelings and this energy that you feel is to sit down with your wife and say, when the day comes, what are we going to be willing to do when it comes to. Are we going to move her in? Do we have a room here? Do we have a space here? Are we going to fund her apartment? Like, what's that going to look like? And go ahead and get that on paper. You all agree to that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I will. I will. If you're. If you're financially set and you want to. To use some of your money to help your mom, provided you take over all of her bills and all of her income and you stop this behavior, you know, as a part of. As a part of the deal. But mom's not willing to do that right now. But there'll be a day where she's going to run this thing into the wall and she's going to be stuck. And you go, well, you know, my terms are still the same, Mom. When I take over, there'll be no more of that.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're going to be taken care of. You will never want. For food or shelter or transportation or clothing. You'll not have any problems. You'll be taken care of. But taken care of does not include casinos. Nope. Nope.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, and you're just. It's just hard. Yeah, it's just hard. The sandwich generation. Taking care of a kid, taking care of your parents. The same time you get squeezed between.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me say it this way, Tom. There's no bad feelings here. You're allowed to feel guilty. You're allowed to feel mad. You're allowed to feel frustrated. You're allowed to feel mad at your dad for not setting her up like whatever feelings you have are all good and right math.

[Dave Ramsey]

The casino for taking care of taking advantage of an 80 year old widow. Hello. I could be mad about that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So there's no bad feelings. It's just what are you going to do next? And that's the question. Yeah, but, but Dave, the, the, the it's hard in a culture that you've been told either a your feelings are everything thing, just do what you feel. Which is always awful advice. But also the idea of feelings don't count. They never matter. Forget them, never feel them. That's bad too. You have to feel them and then you got to go do the next right thing. And that's where people get hung up. And it's hard. It's hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean just say it out loud. This sucks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah it is. You know, so the right thing is it, you know and maybe getting your mom a car, maybe she wouldn't go sell the car to gamble the money like you have to go through all.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you give her a car. Just keep it in your name.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it's mine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can't sell it.

[Senator John Curtis]

You can borrow it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can use this car.

[Senator John Curtis]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that way it doesn't turn into gambling money. Yeah but of course the reason she can't pay for her own car is cuz she's gambled the money way. That was also his point. So. Yeah, yeah. It's just there's something always going on. And at what point does an 80 year old quit driving? I mean there's all that too. So I don't know what her health condition is. I don't know what's going on with her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So the thing beneath the thing is might be you have a really lonely 80 year old woman and you go into a casino and there's people there and people will talk to you and they'll smile to you and they'll bring you a diet Coke and, and like it may be when you move into my house we're going to have to figure out some ways for you to get some connection in the last years of your life or whatever that looks like. But none of this is easy and all of it stinks. I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But Dave, we keep getting these calls on gambling, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just gambling is. This was casino here but online and particularly sports betting is just raping America.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a cancer.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just cleaning out. I mean if you guys don't think that FanDuel and DraftKings and whatever other stupid butt commercials on every break on every game you watch, you know, you know what they're paying for those commercials. That's some of the most expensive commercials you could buy on a live sporting event. And, and they are, you know, they're making billions off of you people. And, and y' all are just standing back going, well, isn't this fun? I lost everything, you know, scout amount. You're gonna lose your wife, you're gonna lose your kids, you're gonna your lose your job. But, but I'm really good at betting on football. You Unbelievable, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's just always wins, man. The house wins.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just, you know, follow the money. You know, Vegas hotels were not built on the backs of losers. On winners. They're built on the backs of losers. And that's what you are when you walk in there. Immediately. House wins. You're a loser in so many ways. Foreign. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. The holidays are here, which means family.

[Caller]

Time, giving back and remembering what the season is all about.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let's be real, it also means shopping, y'. All. If you're anything like me, December gets.

[Caller]

Really busy and really expensive. It's harder to stay intentional with your spending.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's why I love shopping on Amazon, especially this time of year. Year. Named the lowest priced US online retailer.

[Caller]

For nine years running by Profitero, a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Third party analytics and research firm, Amazon's prices are up to 14% lower across top categories and beat competitors by up to 5% in key gift categories. Between amazing deals, stress free shopping and fast shipping, Amazon makes gift giving simpler.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The holiday season a little brighter and helps me keep my budget in check.

[Dave Ramsey]

That allows me to get back to enjoying the season. What more could a busy mom ask for? So for more information about Amazon's low prices and easy, affordable holiday shopping, head to Amazon today. One of the things we've railed on for years around here is the fact that timeshares are legalized fraud. 85% of all timeshare buyers regret their purchase, yet cannot cancel it due to a short rescission window. 95% of timeshare buyers go back to their resort sales team. For more information. Within one to three days on Trustpilot, Marriott Vacation now has a 1.3 stars out of five. According to Arda. The maintenance fees go up 17.5% a year and $50 million in losses last year alone. To the elderly, the AARP says for timeshares, the timeshare business is absolutely a billion dollar fraud. The whole thing has been screwing primarily the elderly, but also those of you that are silly enough to walk in there for a quote, free vacation and then they lock you in a hot box for five hours until you agree to sign. And we tell you over and over and over again, stay away from these people. They're slimy, they're crooks. It's a horrible business. I hope I've not been unclear. So I was really happy to get a call the other day from US Senator John Curtis, Utah's senator. And he has a bill coming up before the Senate to regulate the freaking timeshare business finally. So we've become instant friends because of that. And I asked him to come on and talk about his bill. Senator Curtis, thanks for joining us.

[Senator John Curtis]

US Dave, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed your intro. I, I love your passion. Thank you for being so passionate about this. I am, I am honored to be co conspirator with you and reigning in this terrible, terrible problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what got you on the timeshare thing? Why did you decide to do this?

[Senator John Curtis]

You know, I, over time I've heard from so many people and it kind of came to a head when a good friend reached out to me and said, look, you're in the Senate, why don't you do something about this? And so you know what, he's right. I sat down with my team and we started thinking about what we could do to put some guardrails on this.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the bill has now officially been introduced.

[Senator John Curtis]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you and I talked a few months ago, you just had it drafted and we were able to talk about it on the phone and you were showing me what it was going to cover. And I particularly like several of the things that the bill does. Talk about the items in the bill to limit the timeshare work world.

[Senator John Curtis]

Yeah, it's pretty simple. First of all, you should know what you're buying. There should be transparency. Second of all, you should know if there's going to be radical changes to what you've bought. And third of all, you should be able to change your mind within a agreed upon period of time. And then let's face it, if 85% of the people regret getting into it, there needs to be some way for them to get out of it. And that's a simplification of what the bill does.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. One of the things I saw in there was it grants the buyers a 14 day penalty free cancellation period, which I've been trashing the timeshare business and they've been coming back at me, have sued me and done everything else all over for decades now. It's a horrid business. And from my understanding of talking with Those guys, a 14 day penalty free cancellation period will cut their sales by 70%. You'll probably put them out of business.

[Senator John Curtis]

Well, listen, if any business is dependent on getting people to do something they don't want to do, then they perhaps should go out of business. Now my goal is not to put them out of business. Right. My goal is just to make it so people can trust what they're getting into. You well know that a lot of these people are on vacation. They're away from their children, their financial advisors, their lawyers, and then they do these deals. And by the time they get around those people who generally give them advice, it's too late.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There's no backing out and there's no way to sell the stupid thing because nobody wants to buy them. There's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them for sale on ebay for a dollar.

[Senator John Curtis]

Yeah. And the reason is, is they, they now come with this liability of these, these monthly or annually fees that are so exorbitant, far greater than any amount of money that you could spend and have a really great vacation. And that's why they're worthless.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, $13,000 will buy you a lot of freaking hilt. Hello. I mean, come on, people. And then you mortgage it too. You mortgage air because you're not even getting real estate. There's no title here. You have a two week stay, maybe probably not at the place they told you it would be. And then you want, oh, you can go to Hawaii. Nah, never happening. That's the biggest line of crap. It never occurs. Okay, so the bill has been introduced. What are the next stages and what can our listeners do to help you protect the public from this industry?

[Senator John Curtis]

This is where I need their help. I know the size of the audience. If even a fraction of those call their senator and say, please hop on the Timeshare Transparency Act. That's what I need. I need more senators to join me. You know, this battle is pretty lonely and right now, you know, you and I are feeling pretty alone on this. We need senators engaged and we need people to call their senators and say, look, I've had one of these bad experiences. Please support this bill.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's simple. Just so if you're listening to this and you know somebody's been screwed by a timeshare or you have and you think a 14 day waiting period is at least fair. I would be, yeah, that's a minimum. And, but the impact of this would Be a mandate, disclosure of all fees and notice requirements and all the changes. And dad gum, 17% increase on average every year in the maintenance fee. See, that stuff needs to be disclosed up front.

[Senator John Curtis]

That's all we're asking, is transparency. If people still want to make that decision and they know all of these things and have a reasonable amount of time to get out of it, fine. But as you well know, most of the people wouldn't sign up for that if they were given the time and the space to make a good decision.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. And AARP has actually come out in support of the bill. They've endorsed it. Right.

[Senator John Curtis]

I actually spoke with them just a few minutes ago. They enthusiastically supported. And sadly, you mentioned this, many of the people that get into these are our seniors and like I say, they're away from their normal support structure when they get into these very, very high pressure sales techniques, they maybe make a bad decision and then they don't have a window to change that decision. That's just wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're not actually buying anything, so you can't sell it and yet you have debt on it. I swear one attorney that does the exits on this calls it legalized fraud. And I don't disagree with him. I completely agree with that. So. So the Timeshare Transparency act is live and well in the Senate. Senator John Curtis from Utah has introduced it and he needs some cover from you people in the audience. So reach out, ping your senator, send them an email, give them a call whether you know him or not, and just say, hey, you need to back Senator John Curtis Timeshare Transparency act. Because I got to tell you, this business is full of money and they will be throwing a serious battle up to not be forced to give transparency. This is when icky, icky, icky politics starts working right here. Icky sticky mess. And so Senator Curtis is right. They're going to come at him. They've been coming at me for years. I'm used to it. And just bring it, buddy, bring it. I hate you people. I'll take it. I'll. Come on, that's fine. But I think you suck. But anyway, he's being a lot more diplomatic because he's a US Senator and I'm just a podcaster. But you guys reach out to him, reach out to your senator, reach out to your congressman, because it'll have to go through Congress as well. And just let's get some political cover on this from the consumer base to protect the consumer. That simple. And in the meantime, stay out of those places. Just Stay away from them. Snakes bite. Don't pick up snakes. Why is this hard? These guys are unbelievable. So, Senator Curtis, thank you so much for taking your time to join us, brother.

[Senator John Curtis]

Thanks. Thanks, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for your support, and thanks for what you're doing to get this bill on the floor. The Timeshare Transparency Act. Yeah. In other words, if you could see what these people were doing, no one would do it. That's how this works. I mean, come on. This is really not hard. So check it out, guys. We've been saying around here forever, timeshares suck. Hector wrote in. He said, I'm 26 years old. I currently have about $13,000 in debt for Hilton Honors Timeshare. The timeshare has been a major burden. I'm paying $218 a month, plus over $1,200 in maintenance fees every January. Honey, you could have stayed in a nice hotel for less. Less a lot. I realized it was a mistake, and I'm looking for a way out. I have no way out. You're right. You're stuck. You're screwed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dave, the. The thing I. I'm struggling with here is I don't really know where you stand on timeshares.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man. Yeah. Hilton bought. Was it Diamond? I got into it. The guy running diamond on the air, I was doing a Twitter fight with him a while back, Mikey, and he got fired finally. And he was the president of the company, and I was just taking him down because he's such a slime ball. And so they. Hilton buys that company for like a billion dollars. And so now Hilton has absorbed Diamond. And so what? All these diamond timeshares, which are really particularly scummy, they now are the brand name of Hilton. Hilton's damaged their own brand with this. It was legitimate brand, and now they delegitimize themselves. If you've got collectors breathing down your neck and you're drowning in credit card debt, you don't need another debt relief company trying to sell you sunshine and unicorns. You need real help. And Guardian Litigation Group is the real deal. They're not a call center. They're actual attorneys. That means when a creditor tries to sue you, they can step into the courtroom and fight back. Now, listen, debt settlement isn't pretty. It's not a magic wand. And I'd prefer you get out of debt the old fashioned way. But if you're staring down bankruptcy and you've got no other way out, Guardian gives you a path to clean up the mess without paying a dime up front. Guardian's Attorneys have helped over 55,000 people across the nation settle over $600 million of debt. So if you're ready to take back control of your life and stop cringing every time the phone rings, go to Guardian. Guardian L I t.com Ramsey that's guardianlit.com Ramsey paid endorsement attorney advertising Guardian Litigation Group LLP not available in Minnesota and Oregon.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Please review our website terms for more information. Christmas deals are here. These prices won't last. Shop while you can. We have $13 best selling hardcovers, $13 career assessments, $12 questions for humans decks $7.99 for audiobooks and ebooks and even more go to ramseysolutions.com store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Baby Christie's with us in Lexington, Kentucky. Hi, Christy, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey. I'm blessed. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Merry Christmas. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, we are about to lose 80% of our income. And so why I was wondering. Well, my husband got in a really bad coal mining accident in August of 2024 and he. It almost chopped his hand off, it was so bad. He's still under doctor's care. Workman's comp. But he's getting ready to lose the workman's comp and he's got a couple checks left coming that we do know of before they cut him off, but I don't know if I need to use that money to pay off what I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so he's unable to be a coal miner because of the injury.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how is it that they're getting away with not paying him for the rest of his life for that?

[Caller]

Well, that is something that we are going to push for, but in the time being, I mean, he won't get anything until we fight it, if that makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, I mean, it's been a year and some change. Why are we not yet fighting it?

[Caller]

Because our legal advisor told us that we needed to wait until he was completely done with all doctors care. That way he can continue to get the care that he needs for his hand and then after it's over, then.

[Dave Ramsey]

There'S no union contract that covers any of these. These injuries. No, I would. Is it, this is unionized though, isn't it? I'm not sure he's not in a union.

[Caller]

No. No.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's interesting. Okay. All right. So. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, your attorney is. You have faith in your attorney that this is good advice and you're going to be ready to go because I suspect this is something that. I mean, he was hurt on the job permanently. I think they're probably going to have to support him, but, you know. But you're right. In the meantime. Okay, so what's the status of his injury now? How's he doing in general?

[Caller]

Okay. He's unable to use his hand. They had to amputate his thumb. It de. Gloved him from his palm all the way up his forearm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, God.

[Caller]

Tendon ligament repair. They had to take muscle out of his hand. It has been a terrible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, obviously. Oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

The Lord has helped us, though.

I'm telling you, if it was not for the Lord, we. There's no way that we could have been where we are today.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what I'm thinking about. How old is he?

[Caller]

He's 35.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. This is an absolute tragedy and it's absolutely horrible. I'm so sorry. And. And if I'm him, I got the rest of my life. I got to figure out what I'm going to do.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And nothing is not an option.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So lots of people have sadly gone through losing a limb or losing the use of something and have managed to find productive work of some kind. Maybe using your mind instead of your body or maybe using prosthetics to get a different kind of a job done. But I really want him to be thinking about other than sitting around waiting on the lawyer to call him. I want him to think about what his next career is.

[Caller]

Yeah, he has been doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's the plan?

[Caller]

Well, he really likes to detail vehicles. He's always like to do that. And that is something that he.

[Dave Ramsey]

What did he used to make it as a minor?

[Caller]

Close to 100 grand a year almost.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so let's start talking about detailing. A detailing business. Car detailing business. That makes 100 grand.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

It could be done. That's. That's doable. It might be. It might be his five kids doing. Has five crews doing car dealing and car detailing. And he owns a business. Business. Not just as doing it himself. I mean, I don't know. But let's start looking for a path where we don't start with the assumption of we lost 80% of our income for the rest of our lives. No, no. How about we lost none of our income and we get the benefit of this lawsuit.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, I mean, as soon as he is physically able with somebody to hire somebody to help him and then the two of them can do a car detailing. He needs to get started detailing cars now.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Merry Christmas. You got a pressure washer for Christmas?

[Caller]

He already has tons of that stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, well, let's get. Let's get our button gear. Let's get our button gear and then we don't have to sit and try to solve for an 80% cut in pay. We're gonna have some cut in pay. And you've been through this horrible tragedy and all of that's real. But let's minimize the damage that it does by getting back to work sooner than later. Is that okay?

[Caller]

Yes, as soon as. I guess as soon as he's able to. I mean.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And I don't know the medical condition and I can't even imagine that because basically if I have a hangnail, I end up in intensive care. I'm a complete wuss. So I can't even imagine what he has gone through. And I would not ever dare to even begin to understand the pain or the loss or the emotional scars that go with this whole tragedy. But I can't even get there because I'm a complete wuss. I mean, really, it's ridiculous how big a wuss I am. And so, but the. So anyway, I still though if I'm him, I'm going to go back to work.

[Caller]

Yes. And I mean, he wants to do that, but as of now, I mean, he can't even lift over 15 pounds. I have to help him do everything. I mean. No, it's the end.

[Dave Ramsey]

He can't lift anything with that hand. But the other hand, he can lift on more than £15.

[Caller]

Yes, yes. But I help him do a lot because of the hand injury. He tried. He does as much as he can. I mean, and he's a go getter. He's always worked 60 plus hours a week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm assuming. I'm not accusing the guy being lazy. Please, not even close. Close. But I'm assuming you're doing a lot of physical therapy as well, right?

[Caller]

Yes. He has done it over and over.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I bet. I'm so sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Even if he has to go work a register somewhere just for the time being. Like there's the physical ailment here. But he lost his identity. Coal miners have a, like, like an ethos. Yeah. They've got a spirit about them. They're tougher than the rest of the people. They do work that nobody will do. There's. There's a spirit. And that's been taken from him. And so even just grinding out a shift at a gas station, sitting on a stool like checking people out with their waters and their. In their snuff cans, he'll at least start to slowly get back a little bit of that. I'm providing. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Right. And right now he's okay, Kim. I okay with it because he is German workers, but he's still constantly like, I need to do something, I need to go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's right. He's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But hear him say that's a spiritual thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm serious. Hire. Hire a college student that's home for the holidays to go out and help him and get his. Let's get this detail business started. Good idea, you know, and, and somebody go be with him and. And the two of them together, get it done. And he can manage the customers and manage the money and do some of the work. Some of the stuff is doable, I suppose. I don't know. I don't. I mean, I'm just reading into this. But all of this to say, let's not start with the premise we're going to lose 80% of our income. Let's start with the premise that we're going to lose 80% of our income for a month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But. But to go back to your original question, we're not going to take all the remaining cash we have and try to pay off everything. We're going to pay minimums in stack cash, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you stack cash. You just. You're in the middle of a hurricane, so you just stack up cash. How big? A big. You're in the middle of what's called an emergency, right? So you don't use anything you use. You pile money up, you pay minimum payments, and then let's get this thing, get this situation stabilized with his income coming back up with some kind of a business or some kind of a thing he can do. And by this time next year, he should be back up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's cooking.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you can start talking about using that money to pay down debt and push play again on the total money makeover. Baby steps. Everywhere you turn this time of year, someone's telling you to swipe a card now and pay late. But that mindset always leads straight to debt and post holiday stress. Fairwinds Credit Union takes a different approach. They're here to help you win with money. Fairwinds doesn't push credit cards. They help you build savings and stay debt free. Just like we teach with the baby steps. And to do that, Fairwinds created the Smart Bundle with Ramsey fans in mind. It's more than a bank account. It's a tool to help you live with intention. The Smart Bundle includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the exclusive Ramsey Beweird debit card, which says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. So every time you swipe at this Christmas season, it's a reminder that you're choosing a different path to spend no more than you actually have to avoid that January budget hangover and to be free from debt trapped. Go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to open your Smart Bundle and get your Ramsey Beweird debit card today. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA. If you feel like you're always starting from scratch with your money, trust me, you're not alone. And it's not because you aren't disciplined or because you're emotionally overwhelmed. When frustration or fear build up, you probably tell yourself, I'll start next month. Well, that's not managing your money. That's emotional survival mode. And you gotta understand when you're dealing with personal finance, managing your emotions is a big part of the equation for winning. In her new book, what no One Tells yous About Money, Jade Warshaw gives you a clear, guided process that helps you diagnose these emotions. Fueling your daily money steps gives you tools to break the old cycles and shows you a system that makes the plan easier to follow. The book's practical, it's not academic. It is a Ramsey book, by the way, and it finally explains why you keep getting stuck. Pre order for $24.99. Get over $100 in free bonus items. This is a good book. Enhanced audio book early access to the ebook. These are the bonus items. Access to an exclusive video. Your financial checkup with Jade. You can have an exclusive three week online book club and live Q and A with jade [e-mail] store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description when you you're getting a bargain and getting a bunch of stuff for free. We're bribing you to buy our book early because it helps us with the marketing. So thank you for doing that by the way. It's a big help for Jade and for us. We appreciate you. All right. Preston's with us in Austin, Texas. Hey Preston, what's up? Hey.

[Caller]

Merry Christmas. Thanks to my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

How can we help I was wondering if it would be unwise to pull out of the 401k to pay off the car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

Our baby is due 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Terrible idea. Don't do this. Okay, have we been clear?

[Dave Ramsey]

When you pull it out early, you get a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. So if you're in 20% tax bracket with a 10% penalty, that's 30%. That's like saying, dave, I want to borrow money at 30% interest to pay off my car. Car. No.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, you're right. That, that's, that's, that's silly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a depreciating asset.

[Caller]

I'm starting to panic.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What do you owe on the car?

[Caller]

Our baby. About 8,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you make, sir?

[Caller]

58, 500 salary.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And. And you have a baby.

[Caller]

Do you win In March.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 29 years old old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. So what's the panic?

[Caller]

Well, so my wife, she makes about the same amount of money and we're planning on for her to, you know, move to a part time or even less position after we have our child and our rent is too high. How much is your rent apart? It's 1700amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so that along with all the other. I mean, so I married her. And I have never had debt. And when we got married, I, I kind of panicked when I saw like all the monthly bills that come out for like student loans and that kind of stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much other debt other than the car do you all have?

[Caller]

It's about $23,000 total.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, cool. All right, so here we did. You are a guy who likes to have no debt and plenty of room in the budget, and you have neither of those. And so the word panic comes up a lot in a conversation with you.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's fair. That's fair. So what we need to do is to develop a game plan to A, get rid of the debt and B, make sure we have the margin for her to go to part time. I don't know if you do or not. You may not have that option, but you need to decide that not with your heart, but with your math because you're grown ups.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it may be that she's got to work six months after this baby's born. So y' all clear everything out, you get some margin, and then she can take all the time off she wants.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Listen to me and Dave. We're two emotional guys. Guys, I won't speak For Dave, I've felt the panic you're feeling right now. I felt it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what I'll tell you is panic makes us make bad decisions. It's your body screaming at you, you're an emergency. Just start running. I don't care where. And that's where there's a loan company telling you, consolidate with us, or that's when you're going to take out a.

[Dave Ramsey]

401K, 401, borrow money on your. Or take cash out your 401k. Instead. You only have $8,000 in debt. You only have 23 total eight on the car. And you make 58. And she makes 58. That's 116. This is very doable. We've just got to decide how she ramps down and when she ramps down so that we clear these debts. And the way to do that is get yourself on a detailed budget. And the two of you together are looking at the numbers like two grownups because we have a little person we get to watch over now.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And that will remove a lot of the anxiety because one of the things that causes panic or anxiety in these cases is the unknown. When you actually know in detail what the villain looks like, he's not nearly as scary.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I want you to get the detail of your budget down, the two of you, where every stinking dollar is going. And maybe we're not eating out. Maybe we're not going on vacation. Maybe we're not buying X, Y, or Z. I don't know, probably all of that. And we're going to clear up these stinking debts. And we don't have any debt payments. All we've got is the rent and baby formula. We can make it. And then that's when she could back down. John may be right. She may be back to work for a little while, but you guys need to make that decision with a calculator. Not a. Not a feeling.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And, Preston, let me tell you this. If every time she sits down to do a budget with you, you go into panic mode, she doesn't want to do it. She don't want to sit down, have a budget with you. So if that's been you, here's a great way to sit down and have this conversation. I'm sorry I have made these budget meetings chaotic and stressful for you. And I get paid panicked. I'm sorry. We got a baby coming. I'm gonna be calm and we're gonna come up with a game plan together. And maybe I'll decide she is gonna stay at home, go to part time, and you're gonna start driving Uber at night until Waymo takes that away. Or I'm gonna get a second job for six months and get these things knocked out. And then I'm gonna be at home and be present. You'll have a math problem in front of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it? That's it. There's nothing to panic about though. No, nothing here. You have a very doable situation. You're not going to be without food, the baby's fine, everybody's okay, you're going to be fine. There's not. It's just a matter of how quickly you get some of the financial stressors off of you and instead turn towards wealth building. And we'll help you with that. We'll put you into every dollar as our gift. Let's make it a baby shower gift. Okay? So Christian will pick up and we'll get you signed up for every dollar. John, I have noticed, and I'm sure from your PhD in counseling, you probably could speak to why this is, but I've noticed when I sat down with couples doing one on one coaching over the years, that the unknown is way more stressful than the known. So they come in with like a box, like a shoebox full of bills, and we get them all out and we just start making lists and throwing them in the trash, Making lists, throwing them in the trash. Because there's usually 17 multiple multiples, you know, duplicates, like another notice and another notice and another notice all on the same bill. So it's really just one number, but there's seven pieces of paper. So let's just get it down to one piece of paper, throw it away, and you just clean the thing up and organize it and then you make the list and then you draw a line and total it and they go, oh, it's not as bad as I thought it was, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or when somebody says I'm exhausted, I'm frustrated, that lets me know they're working a hard plan. And I go, yeah, two more years. One more year. There's no way around that. When someone says I'm panicking, I'm anxious, they don't know the plan almost always means I don't have a plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

And when I ride it out on a budget and you see that I can eat and I see that I can keep the lights and the water on, and I see that the rent can be paid and we can buy a baby formula and I see that we can do this, we Just can't go on vacation this year. But we can do, we can live. Then every time I see I can do one more thing, the anxiety, the stress drops.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I can eat. So it goes down. Oh, we got lights and water. Oh, I'm okay. Oh, we get to pay the rent. Oh, we're gonna be okay. Oh, and I can pay the car, but. Oh, and we pay the payment. Yeah, we just can't get extra on it. Oh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When your body feels like it's being acted upon, it goes into panic when it knows that you're taking action. It, it might be, might still be scary, it might still be frustrating, but it won't send you into panic because it knows you're driving.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Bad news or tough news. That's clear. Is way less stress inducing than not knowing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Than not knowing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds credit union studio. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co host. Susan is in Jacksonville, Florida. Merry Christmas, Susan.

[Caller]

Merry Christmas and God bless.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bless you. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I wrote you an email. I am 57 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

I. You're what? You're 5 7.

[Caller]

I'm 5 7. I'm 57.

[Dave Ramsey]

57.

[Caller]

Okay, 57 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I thought you said 6 7. That was gonna be bad for all of us.

[Caller]

I never thought about retirement. It was just something not in my, in my vocabulary. I spent my 20s and 30s having a good time. Very unusual. But now that I'm 57, I'm starting to think about things I should have thought of a long time ago. So I have a little bit in savings. I have a little bit in an ira. And my question is, is it too late for me to think about retiring?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's over. You're just so old, you're so sorry, Susan. You're so old you can't do anything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You need to go to the bar and find you somebody. Because it's over for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of course not. Of course not. Now, obviously it would have been better if you started when you were 27, but that's in the rear view mirror. So let's just deal with what we got. What do you make of year?

[Caller]

I make $50,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So if you say 15% of that, that's 7,500 fully fund a Roth IRA. Tax free growth in a good growth stock mutual fund. And if you do that for the next 10, 15 years, you're have a pretty sizable chunk of money. Probably a million dollars.

[Caller]

Seriously?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay, so $7,500 a year into a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Roth IRA in good growth stock mutual funds. Okay, jump [e-mail] and click on SmartVestor. And those are investment advisors that we endorse. They don't work for us, but we vetted them and they have the heart of a teacher. And I want you to become a student of this. It's not rocket science. You can do it, I can do it. Everybody can do it. And just sit down and learn how that mutual fund works and learn how that Roth IRA works and have it automatically drafted out of your checking account. And if you get any raises in the future, and you probably will, increase the amount that you're saving, clear your debts, get the house paid off. And if you come into 70 years old, 13 years from now with a pile of money in your Roth IRA and a paid for house, you're gonna be in really good shape.

[Caller]

Okay, sounds good.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you. But you're going to concentrate on it like you said, for the first time.

[Caller]

Well, one of the things too is I don't own a home anymore. I sold my house. So I rent. I will. I will be renting right now. I. Why? I don't know. To be honest. It was. I was living. It was just getting too crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was crazy?

[Caller]

Well, my business suffered dramatically during the pandemic. I had a catering business, and so when the pandemic hit, I lost $4,000 a month in income in a blink of an eye. And I had a very difficult time bouncing back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you bounced?

[Caller]

I'm still. Still trying to get back on track.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why five years later?

[Caller]

It's when you're in the hospitality industry.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, honey, we pay thousands and tens of thousands of dol to caterers every year. I don't know. One that. I don't know one that hadn't bounced back.

[Caller]

Yeah, I don't know why. I don't. That's one of the mysteries. I don't know why. I think I've been making some poor decisions.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, like you're still living in the trauma and the pain. Got PTSD from the pandemic. Me too, by the way. I mean, every time I hear the word fauci, I still want to flip. So, you know, it's just somebody. If I see somebody in a mask, I just go crazy. So, I mean, I understand, but. But anyway.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, Susan, I did the math for you, okay? How much is in your IRA right now?

[Caller]

50. 57,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, 57. That's even better. All right, check this out. You ready?

[Caller]

Uh huh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

57,000. I'm going to put in here 75. I'm on the Ramsey investment calculator.

[Dave Ramsey]

7,500 a year.

[Caller]

Year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. 7,500 a year at 77 years old. Okay. If you put six hundred and twenty five bucks a month, that's $7,500 a year. You're going to have $1,050,000.

[Caller]

Okay. And that's going to be enough for me in retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

It'll be more than you have now. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're going to have more than that because you're going to get the catering business moving again. You're going to get over the ptsd, start smiling and cooking again. Again.

[Caller]

I appreciate that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you got you Go get this. Go get those customers back. Don't let some other caterer have them.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You. Me give you. I want to give you a wild homework assignment. You ready?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you live by yourself right now?

[Caller]

I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to write a letter to your 77 year old self and tell her about what you decided to do at age 57 so that she could have a million dollars in retirement.

[Caller]

Okay. I can do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Called these weird guys on a podcast. I went to their website. I got a smartvestor pro. I got my business kicked in the butt and moving again. And I started putting 7,500 a year away. And I even put more than that away because later on I started making so stinking much money, I wanted to have a million faster than 77. I didn't want to. I wanted to get it at 67. So, you know. Yeah. Yeah. That's gonna get you there. Wow. Pretty cool. Cool. That's a good idea. Write yourself a letter.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's something powerful about getting out of your body and putting it on the. On imagining yourself at 77, sitting in that same crummy recliner you got and thinking, I can go to sleep tonight because I got a million dollars in retirement right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And let's talk about owning a home during that time again. Yeah. When. When it is appropriate for you. Yeah. So, yeah, it's. It's very real though, to. To emotionally still have scars from the economic damage that was done to your life during the Fauci pandemic.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, it's. You can't. You can have everything in line and then all of a sudden you wake up on a Monday and you can't go to work anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or all of your business goes away.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that could be the same. I know people are panicking all over the country about AI. Like I'M just going to wake up tomorrow, my job will be gone. And that could be paralyzing. And that goes back to the thing we were talking about in the earlier segment. Feel that that fear's real. Fine. And then get on about the next right thing, which is get after it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I tell you what, man, we spend so much time with millennials and Gen Zs that every article I've read, probably five different things this week that were credible. I think I'm really starting to believe there are going to be more millionaires created by AI than any other technology disruption to come along.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's a very real possibility.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think some people are going to use AI like people, you know, people use the Internet and digital to access and to start a business that they never would have dreamed prior to that and became millionaires.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is exponentially that times a billion. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exponentially larger.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I think the opportunity of AI is so huge that it offsets what little bit of pain is going to come from that. That's the plan. Wow. Yeah. Go get you some. That's a plan. It's one of the best times of the year, but it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, buy, buy. So you start swiping the credit card and suddenly it's January and you got a mess on your hands. Don't let that happen. Tell your money where to go. Instead of wondering where it went with our budgeting app, EveryDollar. EveryDollar not only helps you stay on budget and in control of your spending this holiday season, it also helps you find extra margin in your budget. Thousands of dollars of it. And every day will coach you to build better money habits and attack your goals faster than ever. So while most people will be starting in January with a taste of regret in their mouth, you'll already be winning. Start every dollar for free by downloading the. Foreign. Ramsey Show. Question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? If you've been turning down by other lenders because your private student loans are in default, why Refi is for you. They help borrowers restart with dignity in a clear direction. Check out why refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not in all states.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, I love this question. Dave, this one's for you. Today's question comes from Sam in Michigan. Sam writes, My 16 year old son, who's an avid listener of the Ramsey Shop show, has been buying and fixing up cars since he was 14. Good for him, man. He recently refurbished a Trans Am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And is conflicted about what to do with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, me too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He wants to turn on White Snake and have somebody dance on the hood.

[Dave Ramsey]

So part of him wants to Smokey in the Bandit. What are you talking about?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Move on to the next project. But the other part of him wants to take it to the racetrack and enjoy the fruits of his labor. Cars. About one third of his net worth. Worth. Should he take the chance of blowing it up at the racetrack or should he sell it and move on to the next project? I kind of want to let the kid drive the car. That's just my thought.

[Dave Ramsey]

But so, yeah, I mean, the Trans am had a 455 in it. Freaking.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If y' all are listening to this, click over to YouTube and watch it, cuz Dave's smiling it away.

[Dave Ramsey]

Huge engine in that thing. That's the Smokey and the Bandit car. Burt Reynolds, Sally Fields, the whole thing. That's the car. Yeah. And the thing would. It's if. If he put it back together the way it was originally. It's incredible. Yeah. Okay, so what? Dave can hardly say what is the wise thing to do here. Okay, the important part of this whole story is not the car.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is the kid. This kid has already figured out that he is the secret sauce, not the vehicle. He's just. He can. So he'll be able to land on his feet no matter where he lands, no matter where he goes, no matter what he does. So this car. One third of his net worth when he's freaking 16 years old.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't like that word.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who has a net worth at 16 years old? Nobody. So let's not worry about this. Right? So I think. I think he continues to learn lessons that teach him that he is the variable, not the car.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I think you enjoy the car. Not just because I'm a car freak and I think this is a very cool car. But all that aside, I'm not saying it because I'm thinking what I want this 16 year old to come away with is not build up something and then, then protect it and guard it. Build up something, enjoy it. And know that the reason I got this is not because of dumb luck. It's because of my effort.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I worked hard. And can I. Can I say this? If he goes out and blows it up at 16, that might be the greatest thing that ever happened to him.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he learns a lesson.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What a great lesson.

[Dave Ramsey]

He'll Learn you go, well, next time I'm not going to. I don't know that he's going to blow it up. I mean, just because he puts on Racetrack, he could wreck it, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or he may devalue it or whatever.

[Dave Ramsey]

But. Yeah, but he fix it back up. But I mean, he has learned that I can. I had a guy speak one time. He said that everything that's created is created twice. It's first created in your mind and then you physically create the thing. Yeah. And what he has figured out is, is that he can create something in his mind and then cause that future to occur. The cause and effect of hard work. The cause and effect of thinking out into the future and not just being distracted by all the stuff that other people are distracted with, which is stupidity everywhere. Right. And instead this guy actually says, okay, I can buy this, fix it and turn it into something. And what I learned from that is that I have the ability to affect my own future. A locus of control both for financially.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And for joy, for fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

For joy, for fun, for dignity, for. For the pure satisfaction and honor of a job completed and well done. And when he can get all of that crap going already at 16, this guy's going somewhere.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And here's the thing that he apply.

[Dave Ramsey]

This to building a skyscraper. Right. It's the same exact thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But here's what the lost cost here is. Sam can flip, or Sam, your son can flip this thing and sell it and get on to the next thing. But what you might be also missing out on is, yes, he's going to go have fun and drive fast around a racetrack. He kid loves cars, obviously, but he's going to get around other drivers and he might get around other drivers that are like, hey, can you work on my car? Hey, could you? I know a guy who could help with. And so by being around other car guys, that's going to elevate his entire game.

[Dave Ramsey]

Game.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And maybe get him out of your garage and into his own shop. I mean, there's so many other things.

[Dave Ramsey]

If this is his destiny.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If he never works on another car again. And. But all he gets out of this whole thing is, is that he understands he controls things.

[Senator John Curtis]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

He controls his destiny. He creates it in his mind and then he causes his future to come to pass. That is money. Yeah, that's money in the bank right there. And so, yeah, I'd go the racetrack. He might bump into Shell Shelby.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's what I mean.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he might bump into Ferrari of the future.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And Sam, can I tell you something that would really honor the 16 year old? Ask him if you can sit in the passenger side on the first ride. That would be cool, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know if I could do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That'd be cool. Hang on tight.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I could drive it, but I don't think I could sit there. Oh, yeah, yeah. That makes my stomach hurt. 16 year old and trans am.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But a 16 year old. 16 year old looking over and seeing his dad smiling real big.

[Dave Ramsey]

Give me a slow lap and then I'll get out and then you can go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, let's cook it. Let's cook it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, man, that's great. I gotta tell you, Sam, you ought to be proud of him. And it has nothing to do with the car and it has nothing to do with the racetrack. You just thought you've done a good job with him and he's obviously a great young man. And I predict huge things for this guy. I think he's a stud. All right, Katie's with us in Phoenix. Hey, Katie, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. My question is about how to decide between paying off our house versus using the proceeds from a rental sale to reinvest in real estate. So a few weeks ago you mentioned using cash on cash return to decide whether to keep or sell a rental. My husband and I have a rental in another state which gives us a 4% return, which is far from the 8 to 10% return you recommend. So we're planning on listing it for 750k in January.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Caller]

It's paid for. But if we sell it and use the proceeds to pay off our primary house, where we still owe 440k, we owe about 71k in taxes because we've already taken 90k in depreciation. And like you, we hate giving the government any more taxes than we need to. Our other option is to use 550k of the proceeds to buy two rental properties here in Arizona. We already have one rental condo here that performs well. That would drop our taxes to about 16k and save us roughly 55k in taxes. We'd still be able to put 139k towards the mortgage and stay on track to pay the house off by late 2027. But if we follow baby step six strictly, we'd pay off the mortgage first and then we'd only have about 193k left, which is enough to pay for property in cash, and we'd have to pay taxes. And we love real estate and want to grow our portfolio. So what Would you recommend we do?

[Dave Ramsey]

So 250 buys one unit because you had 500 buying two units, right?

[Caller]

Yeah. So there's one for like 250 and one for 300.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you could do a 1031 on just one of them and offset the taxes.

[Caller]

Also true. Yeah, but we'd still have to pay some.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, some, but you'd offset a bunch of it. $250,000 worth. And are the taxes on 250,000, not 250,000 in taxes, but the. Yeah, you can shelter that much of it. And if I did my math right, you've got it dialed in. You've done a really good job. So I was doing this in my head while you got it in front of you, but it sounds like you could do a 250 unit and just about pay off the house, can't you?

[Caller]

Probably pretty close, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what other savings have you got? This non retirement.

[Caller]

We have probably 900k in the stock market that we don't really want to liquidate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, geez. So this is a false dichotomy. Oh my God. Roll it all into a dad gum 1031, pay no taxes and get you an. Get you an ROI and take enough out of the stupid stock market to pay off your house.

[Caller]

But they gotta pay capital gains on the stocks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but nowhere near like you're talking about on this other. You haven't got 100 gains in those things and you've. You've not got an adjusted basis where you've depreciated down your basis either. Those stocks, it's the other way around. So I think you probably got some, some last in stocks. The last ones in that have got the least gain that are nowhere near the tax implications of this. You got to crunch the math on it. But definitely I'm doing at least one rental unit on a 1031 and taking the balance out of the stocks. I might do all of it and take the balance out of the stocks. Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff. Listen to your needs and have your best back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent. Hey, where'd all your money go in 2025? You don't know? I would make you normal. Normal's broke, by the way. Next year can be different. Get a head start by downloading every dollar. Every dollar builds you a personalized plan and coaches you to find the extra money and work the Ramsey plan and then put it to work. Beat debt, build wealth. You're going to find thousands of dollars in the first 15 minutes after you open it and follow through. Follow through the. The onboarding process. We're going to help you get started, baby. And then we're going to hold your hand and go do this, then do that. And it's got the same great budgeting features, but it's going to help you work the plan. New, improved. Don't miss this. Don't go another year feeling broken. Stress. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or on Google Play. Billy's in Fort Worth. Hi, Billy. Merry Christmas.

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. Merry Christmas to you as well, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I came into a little bit of money and I want to see if I should pay off my debt, my house and a couple of notes and whatever. And then I'm not sure what to do with the leftover. I'm not too big on wanting to do stocks and stuff like that, but that's what I wanted to talk to you about.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's a little bit of money?

[Caller]

Well, I have 52,000 in a savings account and then I got 420 in an insurance settlement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lump sum.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's a lot of money, Billy.

[Caller]

Well, yeah, it is to me and my wife who never had that before. That's why I'm.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's. Wow.

[Caller]

What happened to do with that? Yeah, it was a personal injury. Fell and broke some disc in my neck and lower back.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you doing?

[Caller]

I'm doing much better now. I did one surgery on the neck and have another upcoming one on the back soon. But other than that I'm doing okay. Really?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm medically retired. I had cancer, so I'm 60. My wife is 69, so I took a kind of early retirement because of some complications that I've run into as well. I may work again, but I'm really limited in what kind of work I can do. I was in water treatment working for the city for her whole career. And So I have 4,000amonth in pension income and my wife is 3,500amonth in her job. So we combine like 7,500amonth in income.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you can easily live on that.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much debt do you have?

[Caller]

150 on the house, 60,000 on a piece of land that we bought next to the house, and 33 on a car. That's all the debt that we have. So we're like 244 in debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I think if we paid everything off, that would leave us with what, 225 or so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, sure.

[Caller]

That's what, that's what we're not sure what to do with. Or should we not pay that off and do something else?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I would pay. I'd pay everything off under the condition that the two of you promise each other starting today, that you're going to live on a written budget on the every dollar app the rest of your life. No buying anything on debt ever again. No, because now you got 7,500 and 0 bills.

[Caller]

Well, I guess our. If we paid everything off, I think our monthly living expenses would be around 2,000amonth. That's what.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you got 7,500 coming in. Yeah. You got 7,500 coming in a month. 4,000, 3,500, right?

[Caller]

Yes, correct, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you budget that and you continue to invest and grow in your retirement. You grow some wealth and you use the fact that you don't have any debt to grow, you know, substantial wealth in the next 10 years. And we're going to use that 225 to start that. To start with that. There are three things you can do with money. And anytime I have excess money, I try to do some of all three. I can be generous with it. Generosity ought to always be part of your financial plan. Giving to others money. Secondly, I can have fun with with it, and it sounds like you're overdue for some fun. And thirdly, I can invest it. What are you two driving?

[Caller]

We have a 2024 Toyota RAV and then I've got a 22 year old pickup that I drove around.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Do you need to upgrade the pickup?

[Caller]

No, it's. It's perfect for, you know, for me and run around town what I do, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, if you need to spend $10,000 and upgrade the pickup, this might be the time. And $10,000, not exactly a new F150. Okay. I'm just saying move up out of the beater that you're driving, but you can do whatever you want to do. But that you could use some of the money for something like that. You could take a trip that you've always talked about taking and you could give some money to the homeless shelter or to the orphanage or Whatever, I don't, I don't care. Some ministry that you want to support and then the rest of it. I'm going to sit down with a SmartVestor Pro, go to ramseysolutions.com get someone in your corner and begin to learn about investing. Do not put money into something you don't understand and don't do it because I said do it. You do it because you learn about it. You understand it. It's really not that hard to understand you can do it and understand what a mutual fund is and how it works and how to pick one. Smartvestor Pro is, is in order to get our Ramsey trusted endorsement, they have to have the heart of a teacher. We will not send you to somebody who just says do it because I said so. We want them. They want you to understand it or they don't want you to do it. And so I want you to take a little time with that. There's no rush. You can just park it in a high yield savings account until you figure out the investing you want to do and what I'm going to spend and what I'm going to give. But I would pay off the debts immediately and I'd get on a budget immediately. I don't think you're going to be an overspender, Mr. 22 Year Old Truck guy. I don't think that's going to be a problem for you. Okay?

[Caller]

No, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think you're going to go like hog wild and crazy or something. So I think you're going to be okay. But I want you to have a plan to replace the truck and then replace the car someday. I want you to have a plan for Christmas. I want you to have a plan for some vacations. You deserve them. I want you to have a plan for some generosity and I want you to have a plan for some investing out of that $7,500 a month that you got to work with. And so that's your budget and then. But you're going to have, you know, substantial money in the next 10 years if you do this basic things right here. It's a really, really good position. I'm sorry you got hurt so badly, man. That's a big settlement and that's that. That indicates a lot of pain. Pain.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And Billy, are, are you going to be responsible for all these other surgeries and whatnot?

[Dave Ramsey]

One more?

[Caller]

Yeah. That's what the set of most for.

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so do you need to keep some of that liquid for these future surgeries? And challenges.

[Caller]

Um, it's just like a 20 copay for my insurance. So, you know, I'm estimating maybe 10,000 or so I would have be having to pay out of pocket. I don't really know.

[Dave Ramsey]

That sounds right. Well, make sure you've got that allocated too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And again, it goes back to what Dave was saying. Just be intentional. Have a plan. Have a plan. Have a plan. Have a plan. And the foundation, that plan is going to sit on a concrete and, and, and iron foundation of we don't borrow money.

[Caller]

Right, right. That's. That's exactly right. I agree with that. So you would put the bulk of it into mutual funds? I would meet with the smartvestor pro.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would. After everything's paid off. After you have some fun and do some generosity. Yes.

[Caller]

Are those low risk? Risk? It's not like regular spots in the stock market or anything?

[Dave Ramsey]

It is the stock market, but it's as low a risk as buying a home.

[Caller]

Okay, gotcha. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay, well, I will, I will check for a smart vester pro on the website and get started from there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Billy, if it makes you feel better, I use a smartvestor pro.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so do I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's where I put my money.

[Dave Ramsey]

So do I. So, yeah, so here's the thing. Like you take a look, folks, and at some of the growth and income funds or even some of the growth funds and say, okay, in the last 50 years, how many down years did they have and what's the total up? And you will find it's as safe as your house. There's no guarantees. You don't have a guarantee. You don't have a guarantee. When you bought a house and go up, they can go down. And sometimes they go down. If the neighborhood goes away and people start misbehaving around you and that kind of stuff, the values can go down. You can have all kinds of problems. Right. And now somewhere in there is what I'm looking for. Wow, Billy, I'm sorry you went through that. When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start, answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money. Starting Today, go with ramseysolutions.com start. Our scripture of the day, Philippians 2, 3, 4. Do nothing out of selfish Ambition or vain conceit rather in humility. Value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests, but each of you to the interest of others. Jordan Peterson says perhaps you are overvaluing what you don't have and undervaluing what you do have. Lex is with us in Denver. Hey Lex, how are you?

[Caller]

Hello, Dave. I'm doing well. How about yourself?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just the same, sir. How can I help? Merry Christmas.

[Caller]

Merry Christmas to you as well. So I find myself in an interesting situation to where I'm discovering your channel. At a time in my life with an interesting economic situation kind of hanging over our heads. I've been fortunate enough to acquire some decent wealth over the last seven years when I got out of credit card debt. And I'm looking this year to probably be right at about a million dollars in net worth with 1.3. Thank you. With about $1.3 million in debt. Vast majority of it is in within the real estate. But the more I'm listening to your share, the more I'm starting to realize that I might have bought some stressors in my life with, with the ability to get to where I was. Now I got to figure out how to maybe tighten up up the debt. And I was hoping you might be able to give me a few pointers on which direction to head to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, sure. Well, I love real estate and I made a fortune like you in my twenties in the real estate business. And I lost it all because I had too much debt at that point. At the high point of that, I had a $4 million portfolio with about $3 million worth of debt. So I had a 75% equity or 75% loan to value value situation. And I was 26 years old. So how old are you?

[Caller]

33. About to be 34.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. And I was doing a lot of flips and so I had short term notes and the banks called our notes and it caused us to lose everything in the next two and a half years. So and then you know, we started this whole thing living on less than we make, being debt free and all that stuff. Thirty plus years ago, that was 1988 when I went back bankrupt. That's how long ago it was. I've watched my friends in the real estate business, my family was in the real estate business. That's how I got into it. I love real estate and I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate today, all debt free. So I've reversed that course many times over. But it's still an interesting journey. I've been on and I'm honored to get to talk to someone that has done as well as you have at this age. And congratulations. Very well done. So. So I'm always gonna go towards less debt to no debt, because I have less to no stress that way and my sustainability is greater because a lot of times in the real estate business, we don't perceive the risk that debt creates. A lot of real estate people always laugh and say their risk meter got broken, it doesn't even work anymore. They don't even measure risk anymore. They just go, oh, more, more, more, more. And that's what I was doing. Doing. Yours is 50%. So you're not as bad off as I was. You're in much better shape than I was at that time. Tell me about the real estate that you own. What is it?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Caller]

And I was kind of following your journey, and it's kind of where I find myself too, is that my next one was to buy more and more third and fourth property to try to leverage the debt to get enough passive income to kind of buy my freedom, if you will. But yeah. I'm glad I found your show. I have two properties. One of them is a single family house that I essentially converted into up down duplex and I have a fourplex that are both currently cash flowing. However, I'm noticing that in Denver in particular, rents are starting to take a big downturn.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really.

[Caller]

Due to some of the economic stressors. Yeah. Just last week we had a brand new apartment complex that got foreclosed on by a bank and the investors lost $125 million because probably bad management, but also bad in investing over leveraging. And so I'm seeing rents around town, especially for like luxury places, go off 20, 30% off, where last year they would have been rented for upwards of $3,000. Now they have 25, $2,300.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you own two properties that are worth $2 million?

[Caller]

Just about. Yeah, just. Just under 2 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you have mortgage on each of them?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What's the mortgage on the duplex?

[Caller]

On a duplex, I got it back right around Covid. So I have 2.3% rates just right around 500. What's it worth as a duplex? With the cash flow? It is. It's probably right around seven figures.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so the other one's worth 1.3.

[Caller]

Slightly less, probably closer to like 1.1 or so with about 700 on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then I have.

[Caller]

And then I have about 300 in investments between my IRA and stock and churches.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Stock market.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you make? Are you. What's your career?

[Caller]

I'm a mechanical engineer. And so you're making 2, 200, 125 or so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. All right, cool. All right. And you're married?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good for you. Okay, cool. All right, so there's a couple ways you can go at this. The biggest thing I want you to do is I want you to perceive that those debts equal risk. More debt equals more risk. Less debt equals less risk. So point being that on the fourplex, you owe 700. If you owed 1.1 on it and it's worth 1.1, you'd have more risk. Agreed. Because the cash flow would dry up due to the debt service and it's not as sustainable. And you can't get out of the stupid thing because you're leveraged up to your eyeballs. In your case, you got about a 30% equity in that particular position. The other one's about the same, as a matter of fact. So can't figure out where the million dollar net worth is. You might. Must have a pile of cash somewhere.

[Caller]

Yes. So Roughly, there's about 400 of equity on that 1.15 property. 250 on the 750 property.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what I got.

[Caller]

350 in stocks and retirement equally.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. 300. 350 in stocks or how much in retirement? How much in stocks?

[Caller]

About equal split. So about 150 in stocks and like one a little closer to 250, IRA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you continue to like both of these properties as they've got a good future?

[Caller]

Yes, yes. The. The fourplex got really, really good cash flow and the good upside for the future, too. And the. The single family's got a really low rate, so it overperforms the average inflation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good. Okay, I like. I like all that. That's good analysis. All right, so there's a couple of ways you can go. One is you can just say, all right, I'm going to systematically start clearing the debt on these two. So I'm going to reach over and pay that duplex off as I'm going to throw 175 at it today. And I'm going to reach over and get it paid off in the next couple of years. And then I'm going to take all that cash flow and I'm going to reach over and start working on the 4 Plex and get it paid off. When it's paid off, I'm going to take this incredible cash flow Because I got zero debt and I'm going to buy my next property with cash. That's going to slow down the number of properties, but it's also going to lower the amount of hassle you have per dollar. Right. Because if you got 25 renters instead of five renters, you got a different hassle level in your life. Agreed.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Yeah.

The idea is at some point I'm probably going to retire off my engineering or go down to. To work in minimum just the jobs I like and then concentrate a little bit on the real estate.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay. Right now you're 33 and you're a mechanical engineer. You know, that's what I would do if you want to get even more radical. You would sell one of the properties and pay off the other one and then start from there and go cash on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I have an allergy to risk, so that's what I would do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But you know, I'm okay with you starting with a plan to say I'm going to work my way out of this debt. And every time I lower the debt balance my. I've lowered my stress life and I've lowered my probability of problems and everything else. And if you dislike one of the properties, I'd cash it in and throw it at the other one. But you seem to like both of them, and so that does, you know, you can, you could go that way. Either way is fine with me. But no, I'm not going to go buy six more like this. That's. That's a recipe for problems, serious problems. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.