Normal Is Broke and in Debt. Do You Want To Be Normal?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Normal Is Broke and in Debt. Do You Want To Be Normal?"

Release Date: January 30, 2025
Host: Ken Coleman
Guest: George Camel
Duration: Approximately 1 hour and 15 minutes

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, host Ken Coleman and financial expert George Camel tackle the pervasive issue of financial instability, exploring whether striving for "normalcy" often leads to being broke and in debt. Throughout the episode, they address real-life financial dilemmas submitted by listeners, offering actionable advice to help individuals break free from financial constraints and build lasting wealth.

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1. Amy's Retirement Challenge (00:45 - 06:00)

Caller: Amy from Minneapolis
Issue: Approaching retirement at 61 with no retirement savings.

Discussion & Advice: Amy expressed concern about retiring at 67 without a retirement fund, though she has $200,000 in cash savings and minimal debt. Ken Coleman and George Camel assessed her situation, emphasizing the importance of investing her savings to generate returns. George Camel advised:

“The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is today.” (05:35)

Key Points:

• Invest existing savings in growth-oriented mutual funds or index funds to leverage compound interest.
• Consider increasing monthly investments from $1,000 to potentially $2,000 to bolster retirement funds.
• Consult with a financial advisor to tailor an investment strategy that aligns with her retirement goals.

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2. Jason's Wedding Budget Strain (10:31 - 27:12)

Caller: Jason from Houston, Texas
Issue: Budget constraints affecting wedding plans due to unexpected income fluctuations and existing debt.

Discussion & Advice: Jason and his fiancée planned a $10-12,000 wedding, but unforeseen income shortfalls have strained their budget. The couple is also carrying $2,500 in debt. Ken and George encouraged Jason to seek additional income sources to meet his financial commitments, suggesting:

“Do whatever it takes. I think that'll prove to her that you're serious about this.” (17:31)

Key Points:

• Take on side gigs (e.g., Uber, freelancing) to bridge the income gap.
• Maintain open and honest communication with his fiancée about financial challenges.
• Continue adhering to financial peace principles to manage and eliminate debt effectively.

Additional Recommendations: George Camel recommended enrolling in Financial Peace University and reading Breaking Free from Broke to strengthen financial management skills.

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3. Alicia's Car Loan Dilemma (27:12 - 29:48)

Caller: Alicia from San Antonio, Texas
Issue: High car loan debt with negative equity, seeking to downgrade to a more affordable vehicle.

Discussion & Advice: Alicia and her husband aim to replace a $26,000 car loan with an $8,000 minivan but face negative equity. George Camel advised:

“I would not roll the negative equity. Bad plan. This is going to keep you where you're at.” (28:45)

Key Points:

• Sell the current vehicle privately to maximize sale price and minimize negative equity.
• Use existing savings to cover the shortfall from the car loan.
• Avoid rolling over negative equity into a new loan to prevent prolonged debt cycles.

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4. Sue's Debt Collections as a Refugee (32:34 - 40:41)

Caller: Sue from Ottawa, Canada
Issue: Managing multiple debt collections after relocating as refugees, with new income sources.

Discussion & Advice: Sue and her husband, immigrants from Turkey, are dealing with $14,000 in collections while adjusting to new employment in Canada. George Camel emphasized the importance of resisting debt consolidation scams and aggressively paying down debts:

“You guys are warriors. You have been through a lot and ... you are getting out of this.” (37:04)

Key Points:

• Prioritize paying off smaller debts to reduce collection calls and build momentum.
• Disregard aggressive debt settlement offers, which often inflate debt amounts.
• Utilize newfound income to aggressively attack debt, aiming to eliminate it within four months by strict budgeting and minimizing expenses.

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5. Career Stagnation in the Public Sector (42:35 - 50:21)

Caller: Professional from Denver, Colorado
Issue: Feeling stuck in a career with limited advancement opportunities while managing debt.

Discussion & Advice: The caller, earning $57,000 annually as a state agency equipment trainer, seeks career growth without relocating. Ken Coleman and George Camel advised leveraging existing skills to transition into the private sector:

“You're going to be okay. ... You can make the transition when you step off of one boat right onto the next boat.” (50:21)

Key Points:

• Identify transferable skills and seek roles that offer growth within the current geographic area.
• Consider contract work or side gigs to build momentum while remaining on Baby Step 2.
• Maintain financial stability by continuing debt repayment during the career transition.

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6. Rejecting Whole Life Insurance (52:42 - 57:52)

Caller: Jake from Austin, Texas
Issue: Financial advisor recommending a whole life plus 100 policy.

Discussion & Advice: Jake sought advice on whether to accept a whole life insurance policy recommendation. George Camel was unequivocal:

“Fire them. You don't Have a financial advisor. You have an insurance salesman posing as a financial advisor.” (53:25)

Key Points:

• Whole life insurance policies often come with high costs and poor investment returns.
• Opt for term life insurance instead, which provides necessary coverage without the added investment component.
• Consult trusted financial advisors through the Ramsey Network to avoid high-commission insurance products.

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7. Kathleen's Home Purchase Decision (57:35 - 61:08)

Caller: Kathleen from Chicago
Issue: Deciding whether to purchase a home amid high prices or wait for a potential market bubble burst.

Discussion & Advice: Kathleen, planning to buy a $350,000 home but facing higher prices, sought guidance on timing her purchase. George Camel advised:

“I don't see a drastic change in home prices. ... The right time to buy a house is when you're financially ready.” (59:54)

Key Points:

• Do not wait for a housing bubble to burst; instead, purchase when financially prepared.
• Utilize current savings to secure a home that meets long-term needs, avoiding the uncertainty of market fluctuations.
• Ensure mortgage payments are manageable within the household budget to maintain financial stability.

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8. William's Conflict with Church's Debt Viewpoint (61:08 - 73:22)

Caller: William from Detroit
Issue: Disagreement with church leadership's stance on debt.

Discussion & Advice: William and his wife, recent adopters of Baby Steps, found their pastor's acceptance of debt as a norm conflicting with their newfound financial principles. Ken Coleman and George Camel discussed maintaining personal financial convictions while navigating religious community dynamics:

“Don't let anyone bully you any longer. We're done with that.” (40:41)

Key Points:

• Uphold personal financial values even if they conflict with community or leadership perspectives.
• Consider leading financial education within the church to align community practices with sound financial principles.
• Maintain relationships by setting boundaries and respecting differing viewpoints without compromising personal financial goals.

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9. Derek's Roth IRA Investment Strategy (74:13 - 76:38)

Caller: Derek
Issue: Choosing between a target date index fund or an S&P 500 index fund for Roth IRA contributions.

Discussion & Advice: Derek, a 30-year-old aiming to maximize his Roth IRA, asked whether to invest in a target date fund or an S&P 500 index fund. George Camel expressed skepticism about target date funds, advocating for direct investment in equities:

“I am personally not a fan of target date funds. ... I want to keep that 10 to 12% return instead of getting a 3, 4, 5% return retirement.” (74:48)

Key Points:

• Favor S&P 500 or growth-oriented mutual funds for higher long-term returns.
• Target date funds may reduce potential growth by gradually shifting towards bonds.
• Stay invested heavily in equities, especially at a younger age, to maximize retirement fund growth.

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10. Bridget's Disability Insurance Concerns (76:43 - 81:05)

Caller: Bridget from Salt Lake City
Issue: Securing disability insurance amid pre-existing conditions.

Discussion & Advice: Bridget, recently becoming the main breadwinner with pre-existing conditions, inquired about affordable disability insurance options. George Camel and Ken Coleman recommended:

“Your goal should be to become self-insured. ... Get the disability insurance for a hundred bucks a month.” (78:35)

Key Points:

• Purchase disability insurance to protect against income loss due to health issues.
• Opt for policies that cover 60-70% of income at a reasonable premium.
• Strive towards becoming self-insured by building an emergency fund while maintaining necessary coverage.

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11. Mike's Mortgage Refinancing Decision (81:21 - 83:50)

Caller: Mike from Boston, Massachusetts
Issue: Deciding whether to refinance a mortgage to reduce monthly payments.

Discussion & Advice: Mike inherited funds to pay down a $450,000 mortgage, considering refinancing to lower monthly payments. George Camel advised:

“I would just attack that mortgage with a vengeance. ... I wouldn't refinance at this juncture unless you're going to ROI on it real quick.” (83:50)

Key Points:

• Focus on aggressively paying down the mortgage rather than refinancing to reduce payments.
• Explore mortgage recasting options to lower monthly obligations without altering interest rates.
• Ensure any refinancing decision results in a clear financial benefit and aligns with long-term debt elimination goals.

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Ken Coleman and George Camel reinforced the show’s core message: avoiding "normal" financial pitfalls by adhering to disciplined budgeting, strategic investing, and proactive debt management. They emphasized the importance of personal responsibility, continuous education, and leveraging available resources, such as Financial Peace University and trusted financial advisors, to achieve financial freedom and stability.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (05:35): “The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is today.”
• George Camel (17:31): “Do whatever it takes. I think that'll prove to her that you're serious about this.”

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Resources Mentioned:

• Financial Peace University
• Breaking Free from Broke by George Camel
• Ramsey Solutions website for trusted financial advisors and additional tools.

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for listeners grappling with various financial challenges, providing tailored advice to navigate retirement planning, debt management, investment strategies, and career transitions. By offering practical solutions and motivational support, Ken Coleman and George Camel empower individuals to break free from financial norms that lead to instability and embrace a path toward wealth and security.

Transcript

[George Camel]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome to the Ramsey show where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, with your work and in your relationships alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled to be with you guys today. 888-5225 is the number to jump in 888-255-225. All right, let's start it off with Amy in Minneapolis. Amy, how can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I am turning 61 in two weeks.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, that sounds exciting.

[Caller]

Early birthday and I have been good with my money all along, but I have failed to have a retirement fund. And I'm wondering at this point what or so that I can retire maybe at 67.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Oh, okay. So we're working with six years to retire and you have zero. George is going to walk you through this, but just a couple quick questions. You have zero or you have very little? Are you. What's the real real here?

[Caller]

I have no re. I have no retirement fund, but I do have, I have cash and I have no real debt. The only debt I have is about 9,000 DOL that I, I took out a 0% interest loan and did some updates on my house. Okay.

[George Camel]

Sure sounds like real debt to me.

[Caller]

Well, yeah, that. But other than that, I have no debt.

[Ken Coleman]

What kind of cash do you have?

[Caller]

About 200,000.

[Ken Coleman]

And what's that sitting in?

[Caller]

A couple bank accounts.

[George Camel]

Okay. Just in checking accounts or normal savings accounts making. Are they making 0%?

[Caller]

No, they're making a little bit. There's a couple of them in savings and then some of it's just cash.

[George Camel]

Okay. So we can get that money invested working for you at least. What is your income?

[Caller]

I do childcare about it varies every year, but around like 57, 57,000.

[George Camel]

Okay. And do you have any pension or anything like that? Any other retirement income we should be aware of?

[Caller]

Nope.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I have a.

[Caller]

Life insurance, a small life insurance policy. That's, that's all I have.

[George Camel]

Okay. And are you living alone?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

All right.

[Caller]

Right now my, my 19 year old is away at college, but I mean he'll be here when he's not at college.

[George Camel]

Okay. And are you a homeowner?

[Caller]

I own my own. Yes.

[George Camel]

It's paid for. No mortgage been paid for?

[Caller]

Yep.

[George Camel]

No mortgage. What's that worth?

[Caller]

I'm thinking around 280.

[George Camel]

Okay. And what are your monthly expenses? Have you added this up to See, here's my monthly budget. Here's what I need to live.

[Caller]

My monthly expenses are about 1675.

[George Camel]

Okay, great. So here's some Good news, you don't need a lot to survive. Now. I don't know what your retirement plans are. I don't know if you had big dreams. We might need to change that picture based on the reality of where we're at.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

But based on my math, you're going to need, and this is not including health care if there's any other needs you have, but you're talking about 20 grand a year is what you're going to be spending.

[Caller]

Okay?

[George Camel]

So here's the good news. If you put the majority of your savings into the stock market, into a good growth stock mutual fund or an index fund, you would see on average over the next 20, 30 years in your retirement, 10 to 12% return, which means you put 200 in on average. Again, not every year you're going to see 20 grand, another 20 grand. And so that gives me some hope that you're not going to be out on the street. But we're also not going to be eating out and going on vacations. This is going to be a bare bones retirement.

[Caller]

Okay?

[George Camel]

Now if you could invest a big portion of your income now that you have a paid for house, how much could you invest every month from your income? Could you do, let's say $2,000 every month? Yes.

[Caller]

Probably not. I could probably do a thousand.

[George Camel]

Well, you told me your expenses are about 1600. You're taking home probably close to 4000, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, it just depends on the time of the year. During the summer I make a lot more because I have way more children.

[George Camel]

And then, well, Ken can help you fill in the gaps of income. But if you have stable income, you could invest $2,000 every single month from age 61 to 67, you'd likely have around $200,000 sitting in that investment account. Okay, so that is one option. On top of the savings you have putting that into the market. I also would recommend you sit down with a financial advisor and actually crunch these numbers and they'll walk you through to make sure you're understanding where you're putting this money. I don't want you to do it because George said or Ken said. I want you to do it because.

[Caller]

I've always, and that's kind of why I haven't done. I just don't understand any of it and I've always been afraid of it and I've watched too much American greed, so.

[George Camel]

Well, here's I go. I keep thinking of this line for you. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The best. Next time is today. And so I know you're 60 and you feel behind, there's probably some guilt that you could have done more, you should have done more, you should have been investing. But I'm telling you, it's not too late to have some dignity in retirement. But it starts today. We can't have the excuse any longer of, well, I just don't know what I'm doing. Ignorance was bliss until this call.

[Caller]

Yep, I get it.

[George Camel]

Now let's talk about that, that seasonal income gap. What are you doing in the wintertime? What changes that you don't have enough work?

[Caller]

I have work. I do child care. And so during the summer I get a full house. I have all the kids from school, school age children. So I have 12 kids all summer long. And then during the winter kids go off to school and I tend to have less. And this year I chose to have a few less because I took my, my first grandbaby. I'm watching her and with a baby it's just a lot more work. And so I've, I've had less children during the years. But are you getting paid to watch.

[George Camel]

The baby or is this just grandma stuff?

[Caller]

Partially.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so what would be. So let's say just for sake of numbers, okay, let's say that there wasn't a drop off between the summer and the rest of the year. How much more additional money would you make of over and above the 57,000? What do you think that that number would be if you just had the same amount of kids all year round?

[Caller]

Probably a good another 20, 30, I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, so here's, that's the thing I want you to think about. George has done a great job laying out, okay, what you need to do. And here's the deal. That 200,000 is something to build on, plus your existing money. If you're putting in a thousand dollars a month. But I want to challenge you to just believe what you just said. Let's say, let's round down, let's say you did something to go, okay, I'm going to be more aggressive and talking about it. There are parents everywhere around you who would much rather have their child with you. It's probably even more affordable than what they're looking at in the marketplace. There is no shortage of children who need to be watched. So with a little bit of aggression, more intentionality, letting people know, let's say you were able to make an additional $20,000 a year over the next six years. Okay, that's a lot of money. George, coming back to your calculator, she can now put to maybe three grand a month away and all of a.

[George Camel]

Sudden changes your retirement graph, changes it. And you might need to work until 70. You know that you get to retire when the numbers say you do, not when you just decide. And so Jump on a ramseysolutions.com get in touch with a SmartVestor Pro. They can walk you through the investing portion. And this is going to take work and you got to remember inflation's going to be that's going to be kicking your retirement in the pants. So you got to get on top of this thing and start investing instead of just saving.

[Ken Coleman]

But George and I are both, we really believe, Amy, you can do this. I think this is extra income and I do think this is tightening of the expenses as well. And you can get there. All right, quick break. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show. Taking care of your health doesn't have to cost a fortune. That's why field of greens is in my house. Field of greens is made from fruits and veggies. Selected doctors to support your heart, liver, kidneys and metabolism. And here's the best part. They're so confident your doctor will notice your improved health, they offer a money back guarantee, no questions asked. Try today and get 15% off at fieldofgreens.com Ramsey promo code Ramsey fieldofgreens.com Ramsey welcome back, America. Thrilled to have you with us alongside the incomparable and the the very, very sharp dressed man, George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman.

[George Camel]

So kind.

[Ken Coleman]

Triple 882-55-5225 is the phone number taking your money questions and your income questions. So George is our money act money resident. I might pipe in. I've been known to do it.

[George Camel]

You've got a lot of great thoughts.

[Ken Coleman]

But I'm more in the win with the income. Right. Are we winning at work so that we have the opportunity to make more money? So if you're feeling stuck professionally, we're going to equate that to our financial situation. So I'm here to help on that as well.

[George Camel]

Ken will help you afford eggs.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Camel]

That's the goal today.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you noticed, do you bought eggs?

[George Camel]

I went out and bought eggs last night.

[Ken Coleman]

All right.

[George Camel]

And I was shocked. I told the cashier, I said I thought egg prices were supposed to be jacked up. This is a reasonable price. I even opted for the pasture raised.

[Ken Coleman]

Did you?

[George Camel]

I really went all out. You went, you went $4.99. Very reasonable.

[Ken Coleman]

The cost of Eggs are actually moving up. Um, so we'll see what happens. But they're really good for you. Let's go to Jason in Houston, Texas. Jason, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, guys, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

We're having fun. What's going on?

[Caller]

Yeah. So I want to be, try to be succinct and not really reveal too much, but as much as I can.

[Ken Coleman]

What do we need to know here? Do we need to be careful how we ask follow up questions?

[George Camel]

I'm beginning to think your real name isn't Jason.

[Caller]

Oh, anything you need to ask?

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

Basically me and my fiance are getting married. We're just doing a one on one ceremony, me and her, in about a month. And we had decided to fund this ourselves. And our budget was around 10 to $12,000 in the initial discussions. I was going to bring X amount of money. She was going to bring a significant portion. So I was going to bring around $2,500. She was going to cover. When we had this discussion, when we planned this, I had decided, or, excuse me, I had budgeted based on projected income for the month of January and how much margin I would have in my budget. That did not come to fruition. And it's created a strain because I'm not able to contribute the portion that I thought I would be able to. I'm in a very tight budget right now. I will follow that up with. I am bringing debt into this marriage. From the second we even discussed marriage, she's had a full look into my finances. She sees what I spend. There's no nothing hidden. And we have agreed that when we combine our finances, when we get married, that we're going to do the marriage plan to bring the debt attack the debt that I'm bringing into the marriage. So a couple things. There is a lot of shame and guilt on my end too. And on her end, I think there might be some not necessarily resentment building, but I don't want that to happen. And yesterday there was kind of some expression of that and.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let me ask, let me ask, let me ask you a quick question. She's fully aware of your finances and which means she's probably very fully aware of your work and how you get paid. And that sounds like you had no control over this income. So she's disappointed. Yes. But does she understand the circumstances by which the money hasn't come in like you thought it would?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes. And that's, that's kind of the question.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, second question, Second question. I thought, and I don't know If George, you heard this, so I'm coming to you. Jason, I thought you started off the call by saying we're having a one on one wedding.

[Caller]

Yes, sir, we're all open.

[George Camel]

So why is it $12,000?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I don't understand.

[Caller]

This was the kind of the dream that she had and what we had thought we could budget for. And so there's been deposits placed, airline tickets placed, thin money already spent. That would be really hard to sort of bring nothing.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so hold on a second, hold on. So she had a vision for a wedding and now we can't afford it, so now we're opting for the one on one at the courthouse.

[Caller]

Well, no, it's still affordable. Just the portion that I was supposed to afford.

[Ken Coleman]

I just don't understand, George.

[George Camel]

Changes now. 12 grand, let's say you can't give this 2500, you can't give a dime. What changes about this wedding a month from now? What can't we do that we said we were going to do?

[Caller]

Well, that's. That's exactly my question. We can do it. And for our conversation last night, the sort of thought is just get it done. But my question is more relational. I don't want there to be any Harvard resentment or doubt from her because I was not able to uphold my end of the bargain.

[George Camel]

Here's the third question. Is there a pattern of you making a promise, telling her something and then it not coming to fruition? Are you letting her down? Is this the first time this has happened?

[Caller]

As far as I know, absolutely not. No. And 100% transparency? No.

[George Camel]

Have you told her about this yet? Just be honest with her and say, hey, listen. Yeah, I was expecting this income.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah, they talked about.

[George Camel]

But she expressed some, you know, disappointment. She was upset about it and she's obviously pretty. You know, there's a lot of emotion already with planning a wedding and doing this. Even if it's just one on one, it's a big life change. And I think this just probably triggered something inside of her going, this man, is he going to be able to provide, Is he going to be able to be the partner and leader that I need him to be? So it's probably causing some bigger questions in her mind. And I think that's worth a second conversation with her.

[Caller]

Okay. And it's the same that I'm feeling as well. And that's. And I guess I just curious about how to, how to best approach that.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, okay.

[Caller]

I think that tangibly I can do between now and then.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So we can't really answer that until we understand what happened. What is the nature of your job? Or could you share with us briefly the circumstances that led to you not getting paid what you projected that you might. What happened?

[Caller]

Very. Yeah, very easily. I'm a. I do two things. I'm a field inspector and I sell real estate. And my field inspection job is my main source of income. I was. I make basically just enough to pay my bills to get by with that and then real estate, I switched brokerages back to a brokerage that I have been affiliated with before. So when I made this change, we discussed it and said, hey, you know, I can either focus my attention at this real estate and see the benefits from that three to six months from now. I've done that before, I know what it looks like. Or I can in the immediate, in the next three months, go get a job doing whatever on the side to stack cash for this elopement. And we decided that the first option was how I would proceed. There was about a 15 or about, excuse me, a $2,000 job through this field insp. Job that I do that I was anticipating and told would happen in January. And that money was earmarked for the elopement. And that work never came to fruition through the company that I'm working with.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you have another month to go. Is this wedding in March?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Camel]

Okay. So you can go do a side gig, you know, one of these, you know, kind of instacart, Uber eats, whatever it is. You can go sign up for one of those and go make 500 bucks a week until the wedding.

[Caller]

Okay. And that, that was against my thought.

[George Camel]

Do whatever it takes. I think that'll prove to her that you're serious about this.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I. I got it, George. That's a great suggestion, Jason. Honestly, bro, you. You've got some self belief issues, okay? So that's going to need to be dealt with, number one. But the best way to kind of deal with this. You're down in the dumps. Dude, you sound like what maybe a balloon that's lost all its air would sound like if it were talking. That's what you sound like. And I'm not making fun of you. I'm saying that's what it sounds like. You sound so deflated. But George is right, bro. You can make $2,500 between now and that wedding day. And I would start doing it.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Ken Coleman]

Now sell something. If you can't sell something and come up with $300, go sell it for somebody else. Go to all your friends. I mean, I'm telling you, bro, like, this is your chance to feel good about yourself. I understand why you're deflated, but, man, this is an opportunity for you to go, wait a second. I can earn $2,500 between now and wedding day, and I'm going to absolutely die trying. And I'm going to do it, and I'm going to find all the ways to do it. That's all I'm doing. I'm waking up going, I've got a. You need a poster board in your bedroom on your mirror looking at some type of a thermometer that people do, like $2500 or bust.

[George Camel]

If there's 35 days for the wedding, say, I'm gonna make 100 bucks every day, no matter what, come hell or high water.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So, I mean, let's go. And then here's the deal. And then enter into this. This marriage all in with your wife to be on the baby steps. How can we. Let's give them a wedding gift. George, what would. What should we do?

[George Camel]

I love it. I think Financial Peace University for the two of you would be great, along with Breaking free from broke for you specifically. Jason, read the Margin is Breathing Room chapter. I've got 10 ways to make more, 10 ways to spend Less. If you do both of those things, you're going to find that margin to save up. And I want you to have that next conversation, not with a mopey attitude, but with optimism, with an excitement, with an enthusiasm that she goes, oh, my gosh, this is a new Jason.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. And tell her I'm going to come up with the 2,500 bucks. Babe, don't worry about it. I may not see much of you, but it's going to be a great wedding. This is the Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, everyone, listen. We all have stories.

[George Camel]

The family and cultural stories that we were born into.

[Ken Coleman]

The stories of the things that have happened to us, both the good stuff and the challenging stuff. And we have those stories that we constantly tell ourselves. And none of us can go back and change any of our old stories. But the world is waiting to see.

[George Camel]

What each of us is going to write next.

[Ken Coleman]

As we enter 2025, I encourage you to examine your old stories and be intentional about the new stories that you're going to write. And I'm not talking about making goals that are going to be long gone by February. I'm talking about writing new stories that will change your life and the lives of those you love for the better forever. If you're like me, therapy can be a great place to explore the old stories and heal from them and begin writing new ones. If you're thinking about starting therapy, I want you to consider my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy and you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just fill out a short online.

[George Camel]

Survey to get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch at any.

[Ken Coleman]

Time for no extra cost. So start writing a new story this month with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp h-e lp.com sl DeLoney welcome back to the Ramsey show alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. Phone number is 888-2552-258882-55225. Hey, it's time for our question of the day, brought to you by our good friends at Y Refi. Now, you know we don't recommend refinancing on everything, but for distressed private student loans, there's Y Refi. We trust Y Refi because they help you with a low fixed interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt. Learn [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter yrefy.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[George Camel]

Today's question comes from Felix in North Dakota. Bitcoin has been going through the roof recently, and it looks like it's becoming more and more of a stable investment. Do you now recommend it as an investment or do you still believe it's too dangerous of an investment and that people should steer clear of it? Oh, good question.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm actually interested, excited to say to.

[George Camel]

Clear the air on bitcoin because people really want to know my opinion, said no one. Here's the deal. I've never been anti bitcoin. We took a call yesterday, Ken. Young man had every single one of his dollars in bitcoin, had nothing in savings, everything in bitcoin. And he had been doing really well. And he asked us what's wrong with this? And I'm going, you've been alive for four days. So yeah, if you just think this is how it's always gonna be, then sure. But you know, we've seen things. We've seen Bitcoin drop 50% in value in 2022. It's 24,7. It's there's a lot of fraud and scams around the crypto world right now. It's been on a wild trend up lately. And so you're going, well, why invest in the stock market to get a measly 10% when I could get 1000%? And so it really comes down to is what I call the three stooges of wealth, which trips people up, especially young people. It's fear, greed and pride. So it's the I'm so scared. There's the FOMO of I gotta get in this now or else I'm gonna be broke forever. There's the pride of, well, I know better. There's a little bit of arrogance there. And then there's the greed of just like I'm not gonna settle for 12% in a slow way to wealth when I can make it a lot faster. And so with bitcoin, it's like investing in any single stock that's been on a wild ride. You know, you see Nvidia going up and then deep seek from China came out, Nvidia takes it and there's all this just gyration and fear in the market of what anything's gonna do. And it's why I recommend diversifying. So it really comes down to diversifying versus bitcoin equals bad. And it's more that you got all your eggs in one basket. That's too much risk for one person to handle. And so if you want to invest in bitcoin, I can't say invest. If you want to speculate in bitcoin, put some money in that. After you've already invest percent of your income into retirement, into tax advantage, retirement plans, proven mutual funds and index funds, be my guest. And use your fund money to do that. Knowing this is money you could burn on the table. But putting all the chips in on bitcoin, I'm telling you, I think history is going to show that was a very risky move. Now there's bitcoin billionaires out there who are going haha. And they're laughing from their private islands right now. That could be the case.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I think it's here. I think, I think there's no question that cryptocurrency is here to stay.

[George Camel]

So as a technology, the blockchain, it's here. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And I would say bitcoin is here. I'm not saying bitcoin can't fall. I'm not saying I disagree with anything you said. In fact, I agree with everything I would say to somebody. Yeah, you want to invest in bitcoin, I would treat it just like we tell people to go sit down with a smartvestor pro and learn about the strategies so that you understand what you're doing. But I agree with you that it should be a part of a diversified strategy. Not all eggs in that basket. I agree with that. And that's just smart investing strategy. But I will say this. My, my position on crypto and bitcoin early on was, it's risky right now, but there will come a day. And I still hold this. And I think Trump, by the way, is already rattling his saber on this. This.

[George Camel]

Well, he's already made a bajillion dollars doing it. He has, so of course he's a fan.

[Ken Coleman]

I know, but I'm saying you're going to see this become regulated just like banking, just like the stocks. And I think when it becomes regulated, because it will on some level, some people would take issue with me on that, and I'm okay with that. I am making a prediction here. But I believe that once it's regulated, I believe it becomes far more stable. I'm not a fan of regulation as a whole, but there is, there needs to be. It's the wild, wild west right now.

[George Camel]

Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. I think there will be a mutual fund filled with different. No efficiencies.

[Ken Coleman]

So diversification is the answer. I agree with you. I just wanted to add that little two cents there that I don't think you should feel like, oh, it's stupid to invest in it. No, I think it's just like any other investment. You got to do your homework. What level of risk? If you sit down with a good professional, like, so we talk about the smartvestor pros that are out there.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And we link to them and you can go meet them. You talk with any investment professional, one of the first things they're going to talk to you about is where are you at, where in your finances and what's your level of risk? And so I would treat any crypto thing as a high risk thing right now.

[George Camel]

And the other piece of this we didn't talk about is that bitcoin isn't based in anything. When you invest in a mutual fund, it's filled with 90 to 200.

[Ken Coleman]

That's correct.

[George Camel]

Stocks of actual companies producing real products and services and real revenue.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Camel]

You can attribute to that. And therefore, what is it based on? Well, a lot of hype, a lot of what my buddy said. And they're investing, so it must be good.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it is a currency. It is. You are investing in an alternative currency and that's the bet. It's like gold. People that invest in gold. Well, you're investing in crypto.

[George Camel]

And the last thing I do is I go, what are actual wealthy people doing with their money? And what I found is most of them aren't saying, oh, dude, you got to get in on crypto. They might be dabbling in there with a very, very tiny percent of their world. They're not going all in on it. And so if you want to know how actual wealthy people invest, Dave Ramsey will be unpacking that in a two night virtual event called Investing Essentials. I'll be joining him. And here's the deal. We know that if you're following social media, you're going to get investing advice from a 60 second TikTok reel or Instagram reel. That's dangerous. At this virtual event over two nights, two hours a night, we're going to walk you through how to maximize your retirement plans, how to choose the right funds, how to get the most out of your money, how to invest with confidence. Plus, it's the only place you're going to hear Dave unpacking his personal playbook on real estate investing, which is fascinating stuff, something he's never done here on the show. This is brand new information. You're going to get the clarity you need to invest. So join us March 4th and 5th in the comfort of your home. It's completely virtual. Tickets start at 199 bucks. Get yours [e-mail] events or click the link in the show notes if you're on podcast or YouTube. All right, great.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's go to Alicia, who's joining us in San Antonio, Texas. Alicia, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for having me.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure. What's going on?

[Caller]

So my husband and I are trying to get out of debt right now. We have a $26,000 car loan. We want to get rid of that for an $8,000 2012 minivan. But we would be rolling over negative equity if we decide to roll over.

[George Camel]

But can you just not? Why are you trying to go into debt again?

[Caller]

Well, that's the thing. We're trying to get out of this car loan.

[George Camel]

What's it worth?

[Caller]

Negative equity, about 4 to 6,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so it's worth about 22. My husband, 20 or 22. The car is worth 20 to 22 grand. If you sold it today.

[Caller]

If we sold it to CarMax today, 22. If we sold it to the dealership.

[George Camel]

About 18 well, why not sell at private party and get 25?

[Caller]

I don't think it would be worth that much.

[George Camel]

Well, you know, CarMax is buying it at 22 and they're going to sell it for 28. They're buying it at a discount from you. And so you're getting screwed on these kind of trade in deals. And they're going to try to then sell you on a car you can't afford. Again, I'd rather see you sell at private party. Clean it up, sell it on Facebook Marketplace for 25 or 26 and be as little underwater as possible, if not break even.

[Caller]

The thing about private party, it just doesn't sound safe and I don't want to screw myself over.

[George Camel]

Like selling it private party, it doesn't sound safe. You mean meeting strangers in a public place in daylight, bring someone with you?

[Caller]

No, no, not, not like that. Like, I mean like, like legit. Like they. If I sell it private party, I would have to make sure that.

[George Camel]

Go to the bank with them. Yeah, go to the bank, ask for a cashier's check. Go to the bank, have it cashed. They'll verify the funds are there.

[Ken Coleman]

This happens.

[George Camel]

Losing $4,000 over. Do you guys have any money in cash to cover the negative equity?

[Caller]

Yeah, we have about 3,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, that will clear it. You still don't have the eight for this minivan, so we need to figure out what we're going to do. That's going to a local credit union to get the difference so that you can get a cheaper car. But I think we still need to figure out how we get an even cheaper car for now until we can upgrade to the $8,000 minivan. But I would not roll the negative equity. Bad plan. This is going to keep you where you're at.

[Ken Coleman]

Thanks for the call, Alicia. You can do this. I've done this so many times over the last couple years, buying cars for my teenagers and selling. All right, quick break. We'll be right back. He's George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. This is the Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should, too. Whether your company's earning Millions or even hundreds of millions. NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey it's free at netsuite.com Ramsey welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us, America, alongside George campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. 8885225 is the phone number. Hey, there's a lot that happens in your mind, in your emotions and just activities when it comes to buying and selling a house. And that leads to feeling paralyzed, feeling overwhelmed. And so we created Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base. Right. Just kind of a safe place. What's there at the Ramsey Real Estate Home Base calculator? Start to finish guides, how to articles, a podcast, a book in even a video course. All with steps that you can take to navigate the buying or selling process. So if you're ready to take the next step, do it with confidence. Go to ramseysolutions.com real estate ramseysolutions.com realestate or you can click the link in the show notes if you're watching listening on YouTube or podcast. Let's go to Ottawa, Canada now. Sue is there. Sue, how can we help? Hello, how are you, Sue?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you. I'm good. Thank you for taking the call. I'm coming from Canada, Ottawa. So I have a couple of collections. I think it's seven. Yeah, I have seven different collections. Three of mine, four. No, four is mine. And three from my husband.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you talking about collections?

[Caller]

Yeah, we are in collections right now. And the amount is not too much. It's around $14,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

Each around 2000$. And so last month my husband start working full time. We are new in Canada. We came as a refugee and first three years we didn't speak English. So all three years we were just educating ourselves to speak English together.

[George Camel]

Where are you guys from?

[Caller]

A better life Here we are from Turkey.

[George Camel]

Wow. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. So first three years we got an English course from college. So we have osap, like student loan. But it wasn't the best course because it Was an academic course, but we didn't even speak English. It didn't help us.

[George Camel]

Didn't help you actually get a career?

[Caller]

No, it wasn't for career. It was just to learn English. But we choose, we choose the wrong option to be honest.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Instead of free English courses, we chose to go to college. And we couldn't finish the course because it was a heavy academic English course and we didn't.

[George Camel]

Couldn't understand it.

[Caller]

No, nothing. So. So our community, our Turkish community gave us a bad advice and they told us we have to get two cars on loan and do Uber and do Uber during those times. That's what we did. And everything went even worse. So I sold my car and my husband finished her loan this month. Yeah, this was the last month. And during that time we find a free PSW course from government. We take that course. First me and then I start working and then my husband. For last three years we were just having one income coming in the home. So we just avoid all the debt. And this month my husband start getting his salary. So our income is doubled. I'm earning around 23,500 and he earned around $4,000. This is the money comes to our account.

[Ken Coleman]

This is, this is per month.

[George Camel]

That's your take home pay after taxes get taken out.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

So you're making $7,500 take home every month.

[Caller]

Yes. And our, how do you say, outcome, no income expense. Our expenses are around $2,500 but also the food. So we can say 35.

[George Camel]

Okay, so 3,500amonth and that means you should have $4,000 left over if you're doing a written budget, which is just a plan for your money, where you go income minus expenses. Here's every dollar we're going to spend.

[Caller]

It looks like it. Like this was the first month we got the money. So we decided to start paying everything and fix the five years mistakes. We did it. But when I called the collection agency, they told me that I have to pay it in full amount today and the next seller will Friday and I have to wait. So they told me that I have to call a debt consolidation company.

[George Camel]

No, they will. Don't listen. They're lying to your face. They're trying to bully you into paying. You don't have to do anything.

[Caller]

So I told them that I will pay it in six months, the whole seven collections. But they all want me to pay this month. They keep calling me 10 times a day. I'm, I'm. It's killing me right now. So we Decided to talk with the. That recovery agency just to learn what is that? And they made resettlements, all the debts. And they said that now it's $10,000. They send us the paper. Thank God we know English now, so we can read it. And it says that we will pay back 26.

[George Camel]

Like, yeah, these companies are scum back.

[Caller]

They're scamming amounts. Yes. So we said no. But now, since yesterday, my phone is like, they keep calling me because they got my number. Don't answer every single angel agency.

[George Camel]

And every time they're trying to pressure you to get so stressed that you'll do anything it takes, even taking on a debt consolidation suit.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't answer the calls. You talk to one person in a supervisor role at all these different places and say, we are going to pay you back. And. And. And this is when I'm going to do it. And you get it in writing, say.

[George Camel]

Every Friday, I'm gonna call you with an update, but don't call me. I will not pick up.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you don't.

[George Camel]

You will hear from me.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't have to answer their call. They are not the law.

[Caller]

But they told me that there will be legal. Legal in secret. I don't know that.

[George Camel]

Listen, if they want to take you to court over a $2,000 debt sell, be my guest. It's gonna cost you more in lawyer fees than it will what I owe you.

[Ken Coleman]

They are threatening you, so you let.

[George Camel]

Them know, hey, I'm trying to pay this off aggressively. Here's my plan. Here's what I can do. And when. Put the ball in your court. Don't let anyone bully you. Don't let them take advantage of you. Don't fall for these debt settlement companies. Don't fall for debt consolidation. This is on you guys to pay off on your own. And you will do that with your newfound income. This is an amazing blessing. You're gonna have over $4,000 a month to throw at this. You're gonna be done with all of this within four months. Think about that.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, we did a math, and it was saying six months. We can do it for Amazing George.

[George Camel]

Math says four months. You guys are gonna live off nothing. You're gonna grocery shop, like, just. And just enough rice and beans to where you don't need anything else. You're not gonna buy clothes. We're gonna really look at every dollar. We're gonna have full accountability with you and your husband. We're not gonna spend anything we don't need to for the next four months. Can you do that?

[Caller]

Oh, we are doing that last five years. So for sure we can do that.

[George Camel]

Good. You guys are warriors. You have been through a lot and I'm. I hate that you're getting taken advantage of. After being refugees and moving to Canada, you guys have had a lot of life change. It's been really hard and you've been grinding it out, learning a new language, entering this new atmosphere and all the while getting taken advantage of. And we have to also remember we did this to ourselves. So there's a personal responsibility of. Yeah, we chose to go into debt. We chose to put ourselves in this position. But you guys are getting out of this.

[Caller]

The, the biggest problem. One of the biggest problem. We have one debt in collection. It's $75. Like we. I don't even know how we did that. I. I can't understand. I mean, it's just $75. We didn't see it.

[George Camel]

We didn't get verification. Hey, I need, I need written verification of all of these debts before I pay a penny.

[Caller]

Send us. Yeah, they send us. We really have that on one of the credit cards. We just didn't know how to use online system and we thought we paid. It was four years ago. So now what they told me is it' if I pay all these debts, my credit score will be still same. So I have to do this loan to get my. No.

[Ken Coleman]

Again. No, True. No, no. This is all they're doing is using tactics to try to get as much money out of you as fast as they can. But they have. No, they're not going to sue you. They don't want to do that. This is a tactic. So you mean. I mean, is there anything, any money that you have that you could pay some of this stuff off today? Any that just. That'll get them off your back if you just pay something. Not all of it. Yeah, but something, George. I mean, I know we got the snowball yesterday.

[Caller]

The, the minimum ones, the $75 and $660 ones I paid yesterday.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

It was a big relief. It was a good start.

[George Camel]

Good. And get written confirmation, everything. Get written confirmation and don't give them any access to your checking account. Yeah, that's the key here. And once you do that and you put the ball in your court, you're going to feel a sense of relief and confidence. You're going to get out of this. But do not let anyone bully you any longer. We're done with that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And it's really important when you get. You use the right word. What would you do if you were on a playground right now and somebody started bullying you? Be an adult. Knowing what you know, you know what you do. You'd go, knock this, Knock this off. Knock it off. What are we doing? This is the dumbest thing I've ever. This is stupid. You're not going to punch me. Get out of my face. And you've got to do that with these collections, folks. All right, sue, we're rooting for you. This is the Ramsey Show. Mortgage rates have dropped. So if you're thinking about buying a home in the next year, contact your local Churchill mortgage team right now. If you wait, more people will be in the market competing for the same homes and potentially driving up prices. Churchill will help you do the math to be sure your budget is correct, making your home a blessing and helping you build lasting wealth. Learn [e-mail] Churchill Mortgage.com this is a.

[George Camel]

Paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org Equal Housing Lender, 1749 Mallory Lane.

[Ken Coleman]

Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, America, where we help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships. Phone number to jump in is, is, 882-55-5225. Is triple 882-55-2225. Thrilled to be alongside my pal, the smartly attired and and well equipped financial guru. He is the one, the only impressive George Camel with a K. I'm a la Ken.

[George Camel]

Elated.

[Ken Coleman]

Elated. That's a good word. Let's see if we can keep that going. Looks like we're going to Ken in Denver, Colorado. Oh, there's a lot of kenergy right now, Ken. How can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, guys, can you guys hear me okay?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. You didn't acknowledge the kenergy joke at all. Just went right over your head. Not interested.

[Caller]

I did. I guess I'm processing how much kidding is in the room. I guess so. But basically my. Basically my question is. So right now I feel really stuck in my career. My wife and I are in middle of baby steps too.

[Ken Coleman]

How much do you have left through that?

[Caller]

We've got about 50 grand left, so we're plugging away right now. I feel like looking to change careers to find something that I have a growth plan on. Okay. And my job currently, I feel like I've hit the ceiling without having to move away.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, what. Tell us, tell us what you do.

[Caller]

So I work for my state agency. I am an equipment trainer. Basically, I Help new employees attain their CDL license and help with other heavy equipment.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, gotcha. And what do you make?

[Caller]

So right now I make 57 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. All right, well, let me just tell you. The reason you feel stuck and that you've hit a lid is because you have nothing against state employees. I have been criticized before when I say state government is. Is kind of a dead end. And it is. It's not because I think it's bad. It's because it is. And I used to work for the governor of Virginia, so sheesh, people, when I say facts, understand what I'm saying? And Ken, you can agree you're stuck because it is a state agency and there's only so many rungs on the ladder. Correct?

[Caller]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, great. So you're stuck. But the great news about this is it's not because of you. It's because of where you are. So the question becomes, where do you take all this experience you have up to this point in your career and all the skills you've developed? How do you transfer those to the, let's just say private sector so you don't have to leave the Denver area or surrounding area? And. And you can go, okay, I can step in. And. And I got it. Not only a chance to make more money, but I've got a ladder of growth. So what does that look like? If I were to just say to you, Ken, based on your skill and experience to this point, what would be the low hanging fruit or the obvious choices to at least kick the tires on?

[Caller]

I mean, for me, it would have. It would involve some type of teaching, whether it's adult teaching, where they're working within a organized company that needs someone to help train your employees on their processes. Great. Because that's what I do. And that's one thing I love about my job. I love what I do. I have a great job. But just, you know, you just have no.

[Ken Coleman]

You have no room for advancement, and that is a depressing place to be.

[Caller]

Right. The only room for our advancement at all would be supervising, and I would not be doing what I.

[Ken Coleman]

Exactly. So you exchange a little bit of extra money for doing something you don't enjoy. So you've already nailed it. So I love this. So we want to write down. If we're. If you and I were in a room with a whiteboard, I would write down training slash instructing. That's if we can get a gig where you spend the majority of your day training or instructing. You're going to be a Pretty, pretty satisfied fellow, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so we start there. So now we start to look in the, in the, in and around Denver. We go, okay, what are. Anything that's got, you know, the word trainer, instructor in it? I mean, this could be across the board, a lot of different industries. You, you acknowledge that.

[Caller]

Yeah. Well, so I'm not from the Denver area. That's the closest big town. So I'm like from like southwest Kansas, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah, okay, take everything I just said and just delete the word Denver. But the point is, is you're looking in your area, let's say a 30 mile radius, right? Yeah, let's look. And so you've got to see what's out there and see what is transferable for you. And I would tell you that your skill set and your experience is transferable to probably a lot of different places. And so the story, the narrative is great too. Ken, why are you considering leaving your current job? I love it. I love the work. But I'm in state government and so there's very little opportunity for advancement. The only advance would be into a role that's not doing this. And so I'm ready to move in the private sector. That's a great answer, George. Isn't that a great answer? How does it sound? Flaky?

[George Camel]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

And it also sounds impressive. You've been trained by the state and so we got some credibility there. You got a long track record, good performance reviews, correct?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's go. That's what you're looking for. Now, I wanted to jump in right away, but now I want to give you a chance to ask any questions around what I've said because that's what I wanted you to hear right out of the gate. That's where you would start. I'm not saying you're limited to what advice I just gave, but you would certainly start there. So what questions do you have that we've not answered?

[Caller]

Well, so my other hand, I guess part of the question would be during us going through baby step two, would that be the good time to switch careers?

[Ken Coleman]

Sure, as long as there's no interruption of income.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

If it's going to mean going back to school and not working and going to zero dollars and. No, but you know, if this is something where you could do this on the side, get the training you need and do it on top of, or make that instead of a leap, it's just a little jump, then we're talking.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And what's your wife's income?

[Caller]

So my wife is A teacher, so she gets about 47,000 a year.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you guys are making about 110 gross per year.

[Caller]

Yeah, about.

[George Camel]

And on the current trajectory, how long will it take to get out of debt from here?

[Caller]

Last I checked, it'll take us a little bit over a year because we. I work a side, I guess call it a side hustle as an interim pastor.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

So we're able to put most of that to the debt, so we're able to probably be able to get that done in just over a year.

[George Camel]

So I would continue to do that as a side hustle. Do as much of it as you can. Figure out what training is needed to move into the private sector, if any, and then pursue that. You know, all that at the same time as you get out of debt. Okay, it sounds like you, you have, you know, what you need to do. It's just the confidence of going, should I make this. This move into maybe the private sector?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You got a few years of experience at this job, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, I got about three and a half at this position. I've been at the state for about 11 years now.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. You're just doing a search for. For training, instruction, instructor work, and seeing what all is out there. And I. I think there might be some contract work you could pick up right now before you even decide what's the next full time move. That's what I would be looking for, just to get momentum in baby step two. But here's the deal. You're going to be okay. Yes, you can make the transition, but you make the transition when you step off of one boat right onto the next boat. All right? No jumping out in the water. Yeah, yeah. You got this, Ken. Let's go, man. I need some kenergy out of you. I'll give you the last word. Are you confident? Are you confident now?

[Caller]

I'm getting there.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. My man, he needed a little kenergy, George.

[George Camel]

That's all you need sometimes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I think that's my allotment for saying that word.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Notice I stopped.

[George Camel]

No, that's.

[Ken Coleman]

I think that's like three or four times too much. This is the Ramsay Show.

[George Camel]

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[Ken Coleman]

It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can take the stress off your shoulders once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait. Ramsey trusted pros can book up fast. Go to ramseysolutions.com taxpro to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com tax pro. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled that you are with us alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is 888-255-2225. Let's go to Austin, Texas, and Jake is waiting for us there. Jake, how are you?

[Caller]

Good. How y'all been?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, we're having a good time. We can't hear you real well. Give me another little sound check there.

[Caller]

Hello, can you hear me now?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, there we go. I don't know what you did. The flick of the wrist, man. Nice move.

[Caller]

Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you all so much for having me. Quick question. I am just curious. My financial advisor is recommending that I open a whole life plus 100 life insurance policy.

[Ken Coleman]

Of course.

[Caller]

And so I would just love yalls wisdom and input on that.

[George Camel]

Well, here's the simple wisdom. Fire them. You don't Have a financial advisor. You have an insurance salesman posing as a financial advisor.

[Caller]

Yeah. So I guess the. The situation is they are recommending to open this to supplement income if the market is down.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, we know all this, Jake.

[George Camel]

Now we know how the scam works. We're just telling you it's a scam.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So saving you a little bit of time. Anything you tell us that they told you, we've heard.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So George is feisty today. Very feisty.

[George Camel]

I just hate.

[Ken Coleman]

I believe you ate, left no crumbs. Is that what the kids say? Yeah.

[George Camel]

Yes. Eight and left no crumbs. Thank you for that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Here's folks, I'm really trying.

[George Camel]

I hate nothing more than when people get ripped off. And I'm glad you're catching this before you jumped into it. And we have to tell you, cancel the whole life policy and fire your financial advisor. And so I understand what they're telling you. Here's the key. Any good financial advisor would tell you, you should not mix insurance and investing. If you want to invest, be my guest. If you want insurance, get you some term life insurance. But you should not mix the two. It's a very crappy product. Just the internal cost of this thing could implode eventually because of how expensive it is and how high the commissions are for the insurance agent. And so they don't have your best interest at heart. That's the bottom line. And any financial advisor who's worth their salt would tell you, oh, Jake does not need whole life insurance. He needs to invest in XYZ fund. And so they should be. I don't know where you found this person. Is this an old buddy of yours?

[Caller]

Mutual. One of their, like, sister companies.

[George Camel]

Okay. I would say, no, thank you. And I'm gonna actually pause and I'll circle back when the time comes and then just never circle back. You do it as politely as you need to. And if you want a trustworthy financial Advisor, jump on ramseysolutions.com and click on Trusted Pros and I can guarantee you they're never going to be pitching you whole life insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

You just gave me a great idea for a segment that James will never approve.

[George Camel]

Hit me. Pitch it.

[Ken Coleman]

We could do old school shock jock kind of radio, but nothing shocking. And we would just be on with Jake. Well, here, listen, hear me out, okay? We would be on with Jake right now and we would have James and the fancy. You know, they're all smart back there and they could dial up this guy's advisor. Oh, we hear the guy and the guy answers. Jake's on the call. We're over here. And Jake goes, hey, so and so, listen, I'm getting back to you on the proposal. I got a couple guys with me on here.

[George Camel]

And we.

[Ken Coleman]

You and I now jump in and we go, hey, so and so. It's. It's Ken and George from the Ramsey show. And we just had a great talk with Jake. And Jake is authorized to say this to you. No, thanks. And we hang up the phone.

[George Camel]

That's it. We do it for him.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not ugly. Yeah. It's not unkind.

[George Camel]

I'm sure.

[Ken Coleman]

But you just said, no, thanks. And I like. It's no thanks.

[George Camel]

I'm down, Ken. I'm down. Let's do it.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you like that? It's not unkind. And we're not trying to be rude, but it's a kind of, you're fired. But it's like, by the way, you're on the Ramsey show, and no, thanks.

[George Camel]

I'm just impressed. James, like one of your ideas. You know how rare that is.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, to be fair to James, my ideas are not necessarily very easy for him to like.

[George Camel]

Ken's eaten food on the show several.

[Ken Coleman]

Times, so I'm pretty sure I don't turn down Ken's ideas that much. I know. I'm actually making James. He's very nice. He's one of the nicest people on the planet. No, I thought it was fun, James. I really didn't think it was a serious pitch. But if we could do that, I do think it would be entertaining. Here's why I'm saying this. Jake calls. Here's what's going on. How many times do we get that call in a given month about whole life?

[George Camel]

Probably five or six at least.

[Ken Coleman]

But this is an industry that still thrives. Yes, they're still out there. And, boy, if you've ever heard Dave talk about whole life. Holy smokes. I mean, when I get a whole life about it. Oh, my gosh. When he calls, I put a helmet on.

[George Camel]

Hurt Dave as a child. There's that level of anger and trauma involved.

[Ken Coleman]

Anyway, no, thanks. Jake. George gave you. I like those. Very kind. Because you're a classy guy. Yeah.

[George Camel]

I don't want to be a jerk.

[Ken Coleman]

No, thanks. That's our new thing. No, thanks. Kathleen is up next in Chicago. Kathleen, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, I am. Thank you for taking on my call, by the way. I am currently living with my daughter while I'm looking to buy a house. And what I've been Looking at, I. It feels like the prices are way high for what the houses are.

[George Camel]

You're breaking up on us. Kathleen, speak directly into your phone.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know if you're in a bad sell zone, but we can't hear you.

[Caller]

Let me come closer to the window. I'm by the window. Can you hear me now?

[Ken Coleman]

I was gonna suggest that, but I didn't want to be too bold.

[George Camel]

So you feel like house prices are very high right now and you want to buy a house? What's the question?

[Caller]

The question is, should I go ahead and throw all my money into the house, or should I hold off and wait for a housing bubble, if there is in fact one to burst while we recover with our energy production and reduce regulations?

[George Camel]

Wow, you're very trusting in.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, Kathleen, let me tell you what Kathleen is. Kathleen is paying attention to the headlines, aren't you, Kathleen? You're in the news.

[Caller]

Well, I'm watching that for sure.

[Ken Coleman]

I know that's where that comes from. George, tell her about the bubble.

[George Camel]

The. The bubble. We. We talked about this when last time this came up, which was around kind of post Covid. Everyone's freaking out, and we did a whole real estate event talking about, hey, there's not gon this market crash. It's not going to be 2008 all over again. And there's a lot of reasons for that. We covered it in the event. The TLDR on this is I would not wait. I would not sit on the sidelines waiting, hoping for some bubble. And here's. Here's how I know that if mortgage interest rates go down, what's going to happen? It's going to cause more buyers to flood the market. Right?

[Caller]

Correct. Correct.

[George Camel]

What happens when more buyers flood the market? Prices don't go down. They go.

[Caller]

They go up.

[George Camel]

Exactly.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

And so I don't see a drastic change in home prices. We've seen a little fluctuation here and there, and I think you're going to look back six years from now and go, oh, my gosh, why did I wait? That house that was 600 is now 750. And so the right time to buy a house is when you're financially ready. So when you said, I put all my money, what is that? What does that entail?

[Caller]

Well, I shouldn't say all my money I have. I'm retired, and I have my retirement investments, and that's set aside to not be touched.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

But this is money that I have from when I sold my last house.

[George Camel]

Okay. How much are we talking.

[Caller]

We're talking 350. 350,000.

[George Camel]

And how much is the house that you would like to buy?

[Caller]

I'd like to buy a house for 350,000, but they are not looking like anything I can actually live in over the long course. I want something that retire that I can age in agent plate.

[George Camel]

Okay, so what would that cost? Is it 400? 450. 500.

[Caller]

It's looking like to touch it. It's 400.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let's say you took out a $50,000 loan. Could you afford the payment on that with your retirement income where It's. Where it's 25% or less of your take home pay?

[Caller]

I believe so, yes.

[George Camel]

Then I would do it and I would pay it off. And in a few years it'll be gone. I mean most people have car loans bigger than that. And so taking on 50 grand to get into a house now before it becomes a $500,000 house four years from now, I'm going to do that. So you don't have a moving target on your hands.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. That's a smart play.

[Caller]

Thank you. Thank you. That's the lesson of inflation. And you wonder, well, okay, which side should I be on? The inflation or the bubble burst?

[George Camel]

Yeah. I just, I don't have a crystal ball. And so I live my life like I'm getting control of what I'm in control of. And I hope they change the regulations and that we're flooded with more supply in the market and that helps home, the housing market as a whole. But I don't, I don't put a feather in my hat. I got to live my life.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And Kathleen, here's. This is a little extra advice you didn't ask for. I'd look at your cell phone carrier.

[George Camel]

I might switch carriers. That's a good call.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't want to be near the window all the time.

[George Camel]

You deserve better cell signal in retirement.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. You don't want to have to be stuck in one place of the house just to make a good call. So I think you deserve better. I'm not.

[George Camel]

We need to look into WI Fi call on the show. Is that a thing, James? Maybe.

[Ken Coleman]

I gotta look into it.

[George Camel]

He's gonna look into it.

[Ken Coleman]

We've pushed way too much. We need to settle down. Hey, quick break. Don't go anywhere. People are lining up to get coached up. You don't want to miss it. This is the Ramsey show.

[George Camel]

For free tools and resources to help you reach your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com realestate or click the link in the show notes.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, every year I hear the same excuses for why people don't get the life insurance they need to protect their families. So this year let's clear the air and look at the facts. Most people are concerned about price, but term life rates have never been lower. Having 10 to 12 times your income on a 15 or 20 year plan is in many cases just plain cheap. Second, life insurance through your work is not enough, especially since these plans go away if you change jobs. You need to have your own policy so you're not without protection when your family really needs it. Third, stay at home parents need life insurance, especially those with young kids. People don't realize how quickly the costs add up without someone at home taking care of things. So no more excuses folks. Get the protection your family needs. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. They've been my choice for all my insurance for over 25 years and are the only people I trust. Hey guys, I've got a big announcement. George Camel and I are bringing back Investing Essentials, our two night virtual event deep diving into investing and real estate. Learn step by step how to get the most out of your 401k mutual funds and real estate investments. Because there's no better time to get the clarity you need to invest with confidence. Watch live on March 4th and 5th. Get tickets today at Ramsey Solutions.com events. Welcome back America. You're joining the conversation about you, your life, how to win with your money, winning your profession, win with your relationships. Here on the Ramsey show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. Phone number is, Iple 882-5522. Triple 882-55-5225. Let's go to Detroit and William is there. William, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going guys?

[Ken Coleman]

We're having a blast. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I'll get right to the point. So me and my wife, first off, huge fans of the show. We've been doing the baby steps for about a month now. We're totally sold out. Changed our life, changed everything about us.

[George Camel]

But awesome.

[Caller]

I guess the, yeah the is the issue that I, that we're having is we've been attending a church for about 10 years. 10, 11 years. I can't, I don't somewhere around there and well, our pastor isn't aligned with this viewpoint of debt that we now have and we're just, we're just wondering how to Navigate that, because like I said, it's changed. It's changed everything about our life.

[George Camel]

So when you say he's not aligned, is he. Is he from the pulpit talked about debt?

[Caller]

Let me think from the pulpit. No, but, you know, close relationship with him. I know his viewpoints.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

And the way, you know that the church structure is. And I'm not hating on. I love the guy. He's done so much for me. But I, you know, it's. It's mentally. It's mentally straining. You know, his mentality is, you'll always have debt. That's a part of life. Right.

[George Camel]

Wow. Has he read as a book out there, it's called the Bible. As he looked into that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay. How does he reconcile, you know, Proverbs 22:7, the borrower slave to the lender.

[Caller]

Yeah. Like I said, I don't think he's. I don't, you know, I don't think he's preached a message on. On debt or use that passage. I think, you know, he just, you know, he looked and, you know, everybody, you know, just like everybody else, you know, looks at the world we live in and, you know, everybody uses debt. You know, they think they leverage debt.

[George Camel]

Okay, let me throw another one at you. Be not conformed. You know, that one to the pattern of this world. Be renewed by the. Does that not ring a bell for him either? That we shouldn't conform to culture and the stupidity of it?

[Caller]

No, I totally get what you're saying.

[George Camel]

Okay. I'm not a pastor. I don't have a theological basis for this. These are just like, just spitballing.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, listen, you're dropping scripture, George. There's no shame in your case game. Here's my question. So William and the pastor is not. You're not calling because the pastor is preaching this and trying to lead the flock and all this. He's not anti you and your wife being a part of the baby steps and FPU and all that stuff. It's just when you guys are having conversation, you're kind of on fire and you're talking about all this, and this is just kind of two dudes talking and he just kind of glibly throws out. Yeah. You know, and this kind of just bothers you a little bit. Is that what I'm getting?

[Caller]

Yeah. Because it's different than a friend, you know, my pastor and I love the guy.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. But here's my question. What is your question for us?

[Caller]

Yeah, I don't, you know, it's so. For me, me and my wife now this is. This. This has become part of our doctrine, you know, for me, because I've struggled for so many years when, when me and my wife got married. Ever since we got married, debt has been such a huge thing for us. It's. It's kept me up at night.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Caller]

Everything you guys talk about. And then we started the baby steps and there's peace now. Right. And. But to be in a position where you don't feel comfortable to talk with someone you know, you respect because you know the response, it's just. It's mentally draining.

[Ken Coleman]

So are you having this conversation all the time with him?

[Caller]

No, no. That's. That's the thing. Like I said, we just started. I haven't really brought it up to him. Yeah, I don't know.

[George Camel]

It's okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So here's what I'm trying to get at. So, William, I feel. I feel you. I understand what you're saying. However, I think you've got this thing worked up really big in your mind, and I think it's actually not that big a deal. And here's what I mean. If this, if his view on debt, as your pastor is got you to a place where you just are uncomfortable with him on other issues, it's time for you to go find another church. However, I want to point out that as a pastor's kids, that you have to decide, what is it? What does that relationship look like? What do I want it to look like? And is this something that is worthy of me leaving the church? And if it is, fine. That is your prerogative. I got zero problem with it. But if you can still sit under his preaching and you feel like he's leading the church in a fiscally responsible way, because a lot of churches. Here's the other not so secret, secret. A lot of churches out there that have debt and use debt and they pay it off and they use it to build buildings and everything else. So I'm not quite sure. You don't really have a question for us. You're just kind of going, what do you guys think? And so what I think is, is that if this is a stumbling block for you, another scripture, and he is a stumbling block for you, then remove yourself out of the path of the stumbling block. He doesn't think he's stumbling block, so you're not going to change his views on debt. And this is a guy that knows all that scripture. He knows it backwards, forwards, most likely. I hope so. And he's glib about it. So don't let this Be a distress to you. Shouldn't be. You're given that way too much power, George. Yeah, I'm with you.

[George Camel]

I'm not saying, hey, you need to leave the church tomorrow. I'm saying, if you can't deal with the incongruency and you also don't trust the. His leadership anymore, then I think that's gonna weigh on you just like it would in a career. If you don't trust your leadership, you think there's a lack of integrity there, it doesn't align with your values, eventually that's gonna eat away at your soul. And so I'm telling you, that would be a reason to leave. But if you're like, hey, good guy, theologically sound. We disagree on debt as a tool. All right, That's a different situation.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Camel]

But here's a piece of this. Ken and my church, we inherited. There was a church merger. They inherited $7 million of debt, and they looked up and said, we're giving a million dollars in interest to lenders every single year. What if we aggressively attack this as a church and we freed up that million dollars to do the work of the church? And that's exactly what they did. And now they're able to fund ministries and new projects, and they're building centers for recovery, and they have a whole ministry for single parents to fund car repairs and furnish cars for them. That's the kind of stuff you can do when you're debt free instead of, oh, we got to make payments. So that's what your. Your tithes are going to kids.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And I think this is a relational issue, and I want to hang out here for just a second, George, because I think this is important, and I think I want to help William as best we can. But I have very good friends, George. I mean, very good friends. I love being with these friends. But we don't agree on some stuff. I mean, like, the kind of stuff that's like, big stuff. And if we were to constantly talk about that, it would create a real tension. But I have found we don't need to talk about it, because here's what I know. They have fought and decided a long time ago this is what they think about this particular issue.

[George Camel]

This is their worldview on this issue.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. So have I, and I'm not changing it, and neither are they. Everybody's aware we didn't sit down and have this conversation, the way I'm laying it out, but we just kind of.

[George Camel]

Know that there's sort of an unspoken.

[Ken Coleman]

Boundary There we kind of know where we are. And because we value being around each other, we just steer clear of that particular topic. Topic. And the relationship is one of my, it's one of my favorite friends. So I, I just gotta tell you, I, I appreciate William, but there's this crusader mentality. We have it here in the building. And when people's lives are changed by the baby steps and this philosophy, you want to share that good news, it's the same as somebody coming to faith. Maybe they were an agnostic or an atheist and their life is transformed literally by this good news. And what do they want to do? They want to share it everywhere. Why don't you get this? Why don't you get this? And not everybody gets the baby steps. Not everybody thinks it even matters. And it feels like this is the. So it's, it's this real weird deal for William and a lot of us when we are so passionate and convicted about something that has transformed us. So here's the deal. Not everybody's going to get it, and that's not up to you.

[George Camel]

Yeah, well, you just gave me a light bulb moment. I think William should lead a Financial Peace University class in the church. Start a groundswell movement of people going, hey, we became debt free in our personal life. What's going on with the church? What if we could become debt free as a church? What could we do?

[Ken Coleman]

And the pastor's probably not going to be against that. The pastor just goes, my personal life, I don't mind carrying this and I don't mind this. And you know, I, I get it, it's tough situation, but you don't have to lose relationships over some of this stuff is my point. Do you?

[George Camel]

I mean, do you?

[Ken Coleman]

It's hard enough to live your life, you know, trying to live someone else's. Ay, yay. I don't know. So anyway, food for thought. Thanks, William, for the call. You're a good man. Quick break. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

I still remember 10 years ago, 23 years old, I was frustrated, anxious, and flat broke. I had followed all the ways that toxic money culture had led me down. From well meaning parents and misguided guidance counselors. And it left me with a pile of debt. But I'm telling you, it doesn't have to stay that way. Over a decade, I went from broke to millionaire. And I break it all down in my new book, Breaking Free from Broke. I'm going to show you just how toxic this money system is and how you can Break free from credit scores and credit cards and student loans and auto loans and investing traps. And finally, live a life that you're not exhausted by. A life with more margin, more options and more peace. If you want to check out the book, go to ramseysolutions.com store to get your copy of Breaking Free from broke. That's ramseysolutions.com store.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. So glad you're with us. Triple 882-55-5225 is the phone number our Ramsey Network app question is from Derek. Today Derek writes, my new Year's resolution is to max out my Roth IRA contribution. I'm 30 years old and I want to know if it's best to contribute to a Target date index fund that will automatically adjust risk as I age or should I just invest in an s and P500 index fund?

[George Camel]

Great. Nerdy question from our friend Derek. He's doing the research.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, he has.

[George Camel]

Okay, so I'll give you, I'll give you one man's take on this. I am personally not a fan of target date funds. And here's what they do. They start out with mostly equities, right Stocks. And over time they'll start to introduce more bonds into the equation which will reduce your quote unquote risk, but it also reduces your returns. So think about this. You get to retirement age at 60 and you could make it to 90. So for the next 30 years, you've basically stunted the growth of that account to the point where it might run out. And so here's my take and Dave would back me up on this. It's wise to just stay invested heavily in equities. Now if you talk to your financial advisor at 60 and you take into account your risk tolerance and all that, they might go, hey, let's put you in 20%, 30% bonds, whatever. But I'm not a fan of target date index funds doing that on your behalf, especially at a, for a young 30 year old, you want to stay heavily invested in the stock market versus moving towards those bond funds. So yeah, S&P 500 index fund is great. Growth stock mutual funds are great in those retirement accounts. Mutual funds are awesome. Like you're talking about a taxable brokerage account outside of retirement. That's where the index funds really come in handy because they're low turnover and you'll have lower tax implications on that. So great question, Derek. I'm going to go with no to the Target Date fund and yes to staying in the equities, my friend.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm going with what he said.

[George Camel]

A lot of nerd speak.

[Ken Coleman]

Well done, sir.

[George Camel]

But a lot of you should do.

[Ken Coleman]

This for a living.

[George Camel]

Well, a lot of people just, they set it and forget it. That's the beauty of target date funds. And you can do worse. It's not a like terrible, terrible thing. Right, but my take is you want to stay. I want to keep that 10 to 12% return instead of getting a 3, 4, 5% return retirement.

[Ken Coleman]

Couldn't agree more. Let's go to Salt Lake City now where Bridget is joining us. Bridget, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hello.

[Ken Coleman]

Hi.

[Caller]

Hi. I'm so excited to talk to you guys.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's fun.

[George Camel]

A little excitement is shared.

[Ken Coleman]

I like that. Little chuckle. A little pre question chuckle there from Bridget. This is exciting. Bridget, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, I have recently become the main breadwinner of our family when my husband retired from the military. And now we are looking at how to protect our family's well being in case I become unable to work. So we have been looking into disability insurance, but we are also pretty sure that I will have at least a couple of exclusions from coverage. So we are wondering if it's even worse.

[George Camel]

Is it due to the nature of your career?

[Caller]

No, no. It's just pre existing conditions that I have been living with for two decades now.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so you have a pretty good idea that this is. You're going to eventually have to stop working. Do you have a kind of a timeline?

[Caller]

No, not like that. It's like things like hypertension and I have a few spine and stuff like that. So those are things that if they happen or if they become worse.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I see.

[Caller]

Are gonna get me disabled, but they may never become an issue.

[Ken Coleman]

Gotcha.

[Caller]

Very. Yeah, very well might.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, gotcha.

[George Camel]

Can you purchase this through your, your employer?

[Caller]

No.

[George Camel]

Okay, so if you're gonna go kind of look at the marketplace. Have you gotten some quotes yet?

[Caller]

I have talked to vendors.

[George Camel]

Okay. What'd they say?

[Caller]

All of my information is in underwriting, but they said that I should probably expect a premium around $100 a month.

[George Camel]

That sounds reasonable.

[Caller]

Yeah. I was also surprised, but with all three of my conditions excluded.

[George Camel]

So if you're unable to work due to those conditions, it won't be covered.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Got it. Yeah. That's a tough one. I mean, your goal should be to become self insured. At that point, I would take the disability insurance for a hundred bucks a month and then on top of that be working those baby steps to become Self insured over time and make sure that you have other insurance in place, like term life policy, for example. Do you have that?

[Caller]

Yes, but I need to up it. I was covered for the little bit that I was making as a stay at home homeschooling mom, but I needed now that I'm the main.

[George Camel]

What do you make a year?

[Caller]

Last year I made 71, but I wasn't working full time. So it's probably going to be more around 90,000 this year.

[George Camel]

Awesome. So you're looking at a million dollar policy. And some of these you can even do no medical exam, completely online. And so, you know, you might be able to, you know, especially if you're just trying to get a little bit more on top of the one that you already have, it's going to be very affordable. The disability insurance you just mentioned, 100 bucks a month, very reasonable. Usually it's 1 to 3% of your annual income and it's going to cover 60 to 70% of your income should you need to use it.

[Caller]

Yeah, they told me that I can. Sanders told me that I can probably spend around 3,000amonth, which is perfect because it covers our mortgage and then my husband's VA disability in retirement just has to cover our groceries and all of those things, which should be very easily doable.

[George Camel]

And remember, here's the point of insurance. It's just to transfer risk so that you don't have to shoulder it. So to pay someone $100 a month, 1200 a year, you do that for 20 years, is 24 grand. Over 20 years, I will happily pay that for the peace of mind, knowing that if something should happen, I'm going to get that 3,000amonth for the foreseeable future. And so that's where I'm. Is it worth the investment? Absolutely. For the hundred bucks a month you're paying and for the risk that you're transferring, it's definitely worth it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Bridget, for the call.

[George Camel]

Great question. Not every day you get to talk about disability insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

It's fair. That's a good point.

[George Camel]

And Ramsey, you know, we have, we have ours covered through Ramsey. So it's a good thing to check with your employer to see if they already cover it, if they offer it. Usually it's very affordable through your employer. And that's a great way to go.

[Ken Coleman]

And you saw Xander, she went to Xander. You got a great quote there. That's very reasonable for a lot of peace of mind, as you said. Let's go to Boston, Massachusetts, that area that's where Georgia hails from. Mike is there. Mike, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, good afternoon, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

I have recently, sadly, I guess, come into some money through an inheritance. My wife and I's plan is to pay off all of our debts and even with that, we'll have some money left over. Wow. My, my specific question is we currently have a mortgage that totals about $450,000. 350 of that is a 20 year mortgage at 2.875% and we have about 15 years left to pay on that. The other 100,000 is a HELOC. That's about 6%. Right now we're going to have enough to pay off the HELOC and get the regular, you know, the first mortgage down to about $250,000.

[George Camel]

Wow.

[Caller]

My, my question is, and I've asked a couple folks, I'm getting competing answers. So I'm hoping you guys were a tiebreaker. I have the possibility of refinancing that 2, you know, $250,000 balance to a regular mortgage at 6% but for 10 years.

[George Camel]

So what would be the point of that? To lower the payment.

[Caller]

So if I lower the pay? Yeah, my payments currently 3,300amonth. If I refinance, I can get that payment down to about 2,400amonth and then I'll be able to actually put $1,000 per month towards the principal alone.

[George Camel]

Well, you can just do that on your 20 year mortgage. You can still add more to the principal. It's not going to change the numbers.

[Caller]

Well, with my income, I wouldn't be able to do that.

[George Camel]

What's your take home pay?

[Caller]

About every month, monthly $10,000.

[George Camel]

Okay. I think this is reasonable. I would just attack that mortgage with a vengeance. What you can look into is a mortgage recast where they can just rec recast it without changing the terms, without changing the interest rate and that can get your payment lower while really accomplishing the same goal. So I wouldn't refinance at this juncture unless you're going to ROI on it real quick. Thanks for the man's take.

[Ken Coleman]

This is the Ramsey Show. The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman and this is what my new show Front Row Seat is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more. What sets successful people apart is a never ending desire to learn and grow. Each week I'll be joined by industry leaders and world class experts to have a conversation about how to get better, move up, and lead well in work and life. But the best part of this show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in studio, we'll have a group of professionals just like you who have the power to ask questions and steer the discussion in real time. It's an opportunity to get real answers to real questions like how to make the right decisions, have hard conversations, live a balanced life, and discover your next steps to growth. Join us every Tuesday for conversations that are guaranteed to surprise, challenge and inspire you. Check out front row seat wherever you get your podcasts.