Nothing Destroys Your Finances Faster Than Broken Trust

Summary

The Ramsey Show – “Nothing Destroys Your Finances Faster Than Broken Trust”

Date: November 28, 2025
Hosts: George Kamel & Jade Warshaw
Podcast Network: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

In this rich, candid episode of The Ramsey Show, hosts George Kamel and Jade Warshaw tackle the theme of trust and honesty in personal finance—both in our relationship with ourselves and others. Listeners call in with questions exploring cycles of debt, the aftermath of financial infidelity, the challenges of supporting family, and tense moments between couples as they strive for financial peace. Throughout, George and Jade provide practical steps, emotional support, and the tough love Ramsey is known for.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Self-Deception and Breaking the Debt Cycle

• Caller: Peter from Philadelphia ([00:38]–[08:57])

  • Situation: Peter earns over $130k/year, supports three children, and is considering bankruptcy over ~$56k in total debts (car, personal loan, hospital bills, pension loan, credit cards, utility bill).
  • Diagnosis: Not a lack-of-income problem, but an overspending and avoidance problem. Lacks a budget and is disconnected from the reality of his expenses.
  • Key Insight: Facing your numbers—however scary—is better than fearing the unknown. The key to peace is transparency with oneself through budgeting.

  “I’d rather you be scared of the facts than the unknowns.”
  — George Kamel [05:18]

  • Action Plan:
    • Track actual spending using a bank statement.
    • Immediate stop to investing until debt is paid.
    • Cut all extra spending (“DoorDash, eating out has to go”).
    • Use the EveryDollar app for digital budgeting.
    • Bankruptcy is not the answer: “You are the answer.”

2. Broken Trust & Financial Honesty in Relationships

• Caller: Eli from Indianapolis ([10:51]–[18:18])

  • Situation: Eli has been lying to his girlfriend for two years, claiming he’s “broke” to avoid lifestyle inflation and manipulation.
  • Insight: Emotional baggage from past relationships is causing self-protection through dishonesty, but new relationships require new trust.
  • Advice:
    • Have a clear, honest talk about motivations for simplicity.
    • Share real financial circumstances and values.
    • Address differing priorities before marriage or deeper commitment.

  “Behind every lie there’s a fear—there’s a lie you told yourself long before you lied to someone else.”
  — George Kamel [12:44]

  • Memorable moment: The hosts empathize with Eli, highlighting that financial minimalism isn’t dishonesty—the lie is about motivation, not means.

Deeper Dive: Financial Infidelity Case

• Caller: Elaine from Indiana ([85:11]–[93:03])

  • Situation: Elaine’s husband repeatedly hides serious debts, opens separate accounts, and takes loans, including $14k from his employer without disclosure.
  • Advice:
    • Couple needs urgent counseling to address the pattern and emotional roots.
    • Keep finances separate until consistent honesty is demonstrated over time.
    • Set boundaries—commitment to transparency, otherwise the marriage cannot heal.

  "You have disrespected me and our family and our money, and you’ve put us in an unsafe position.”
  — Jade Warshaw [92:27]

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3. Couple's Disagreements: Big Purchases and Baby Steps

• Caller: Jennifer & Joe, “Pick a Side" Segment ([21:26]–[30:27])
  • Situation: Debt-free Baby Step 7 couple debates buying a $50,000 car (Jennifer) vs. a $35,000 one (Joe). They could save the larger amount in 6 months but Joe has a hard time justifying the luxury.
  • Hosts' Verdict: Both agree Jennifer should get the car she wants—as long as their total vehicle values remain under half their annual income ($150k).
  • Notable Quotes:

    “You’ve driven like no one else—now it’s time to drive like no one else.”
    — George Kamel [26:23]

  • Guideline: Once debt free and investing, enjoy some luxuries within reasonable financial boundaries.

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4. Supporting Family: When Help Becomes Enabling

• Caller: Jacob, Los Angeles ([53:57]–[62:40])

  • Situation: At 28, Jacob is carrying 70% of his family's (mom and sister) living expenses post-divorce, but recognizes it's unsustainable.
  • Hosts’ Advice:
    • Personal sacrifice for a parent can easily become lifelong codependence.
    • Mom needs to either increase her income (possibly by utilizing a rental property) or downsize her lifestyle.
    • Adult children must set boundaries (“You’re stunting your own growth”).

  "We need to end this codependency right now—otherwise it's going to hurt both of you in the long run."
  — George Kamel [62:40]

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5. Navigating Debt Payoff, Emergency Funds, and Budgeting in Marriage

• Numerous callers seek guidance on:
  • Whether to pause investing to pay off a home ([18:24]–[21:09])—advice: stick with the baby steps in order.
  • How to approach inherited funds when a parent wants to “reclaim” a college fund ([32:53]–[36:13])—advice: once gifted, a 529 is not a parent’s piggy bank.
  • Working through debt snowballs with different-sized loans ([65:05]–[73:39])—list smallest to largest, and pause investments until debt is gone.
  • Spousal misalignment and budgeting ([94:33]–[100:47])—clarity and unity are the cornerstone; lead by example, and take stock of the numbers.

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6. Memorable Cautionary Story: Buying an Underwater Luxury Car

• Caller: Danielle, Houston ([75:21]–[83:50])
  • Situation: Danielle earns $65k, bought a $75k Audi ($1,600/mo, 12% interest), needs a $20k engine replacement, warranty will only pay $7k, owes $65k, but car’s worth maybe $30k now.
  • Lesson: Never buy a car worth more than half your annual income; pay cash for used cars.
  • Hosts’ Real Talk:

    “No, you didn’t get screwed. You chose this. Let’s be honest.”
    — Jade Warshaw [78:57]

  • Advice: Fix the car with borrowed funds if needed, then sell it; do not return to luxury car lifestyle.

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7. Older Adults and the Dangers of No Retirement Plan

• Caller: Joan, Jacksonville ([116:21]–[124:33])
  • Situation: 86 years old, $30k credit card debt, $1,200/month Social Security, $181/month for pet care, home worth $250k.
  • Advice: Selling her house or moving in with family may be necessary; otherwise, the debt cycle continues. Sometimes hard tradeoffs (like rehoming a pet or downsizing) are unavoidable in crisis.
  • Emotional Insight: Long-term financial neglect often leads to painful choices in later life.

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8. Premarital Debt & Combining Finances

• Caller: Marcus, Denver ([105:06]–[110:49])

  • Situation: Marcus saved $100k, fiancée has $90k in debt. She feels guilty about using his savings to clear her debt post-marriage.
  • Hosts' Wisdom:
    • True unity in marriage means absorbing each other’s financial past.
    • Prefer a partner ready to share than one who insists they remain financially divided.
    • Delaying homeownership to clean up debt together pays dividends.

  “If you looked at a cons list of, okay, she’s coming to this marriage with 100 grand [of debt]—you look at the pros list: her. That outweighs any level of debt.”
  — George Kamel [107:22]

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Notable Quotes & Segments (with Timestamps)

• Budgeting & Reality:

  “The budget—it’s the blood work, it tells all. It tells everything that’s wrong with you.”
  — Jade Warshaw [07:07]

• Facing Debt with Courage:

  “I'd rather you be scared of the facts than the unknowns.”
  — George Kamel [05:18]

• Boundaries in Family Help:

  “It’s not fair for you to prop up a lifestyle that’s not sustainable for them.”
  — George Kamel [54:03]

• Failure to Plan for Retirement:

  “If I snap my fingers and got you out of credit card debt, you’re going to be back in $30,000 of credit card debt because you’re using the cards to float your life.”
  — George Kamel [120:54]

• Closing Encouragement:

  “Progress is all you can hope for. You’re doing better than you think.”
  — Jade Warshaw [50:40]

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Conclusion

This episode of The Ramsey Show is a powerful reminder that broken trust—whether with ourselves through denial, or with our loved ones via dishonesty—can derail our finances faster than any single external event. Clarity, courage, and community are the antidotes. Through practical budgeting, open conversations, and powerful boundaries, financial peace is possible—even after “stupid mistakes.”

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Segment Timestamps

• [00:38] Peter’s cycle of debt – facing your numbers
• [10:51] Eli’s financial honesty dilemma in dating
• [21:26] “Pick a Side”: Couple’s new car debate
• [32:53] College fund, inheritance & parental overreach
• [53:57] Supporting a parent vs. enabling dependence
• [65:05] Getting your spouse onboard with the debt snowball
• [75:21] Danielle’s luxury car gone wrong
• [85:11] Elaine’s experience with financial infidelity
• [94:33] Marriage budgeting, misalignment & gentle leadership
• [105:06] Combining finances & pre-marital guilt
• [116:21] Elderly caller—surviving on Social Security & drowning in credit cards

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Want more guidance or help with your finances? Visit ramseysolutions.com to learn about coaching, tools (like EveryDollar), and Financial Peace University.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Camel]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel joined by best selling author Jade Warshaw. We're taking Your calls at 888-255-225. Peter is in Philadelphia to kick us off. What's going on? Peter?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi.

[Caller]

How are you? Just stressed about bills and thinking about bankruptcy.

[George Camel]

Oh, man. How much debt do you have?

[Caller]

A little over 25,000.

[George Camel]

What kind of debt is closer to 30?

[Caller]

Car personal loan, hospital bills, gas bill.

[George Camel]

And what's left on the car?

[Caller]

The car's 10, the personal loan is 11. And that's, that's just, you know, like personal. Just because I'm trying, I'm trying to get myself out of a jam so I go back into it.

[George Camel]

You're in a cycle. What do you make, right?

[Caller]

126 base salary, dude. And I think last year I pulled in about 180 for overtime.

[George Camel]

America just lost all empathy here. You make $130,000 and you're calling in trying to file bankruptcy over 20.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. What else is going on? What else is eating your lunch? Because it's not, it's not $25,000 of debt.

[George Camel]

You could pay off this debt in less than six months.

[Caller]

I mean, I do have other things. I mean, I take care of my kids.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, tell us about that. Because right now we're trying to understand where is the problem.

[Caller]

Well, so I don't have a court order on the kids. I just, you know, whatever they need and whatever their mom needs, I just take care of.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's true.

[Caller]

But again, if you were, I'm not gonna lie, misspending.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay? That's what it is. Because even if you were married with the kids in the house taking care of them, 100, you know, $125,000 income would still be a great income. So it's not the kids. It sounds like you're overspending in other areas. Do you have any kind of budget that you're on?

[Caller]

No, not really.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, there's, there's the problem. So I guarantee you today, if you were to just do a, an old school budget on a piece of paper, if you just said, all right, here's the money, I take home my, my net amount when I, when I take home my check. And now I write down what I'm spending money on and I'm just going to go back through my bank statement. I think you would see the problem or. You dating anybody?

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so then you're just spending money on yourself. Is it food? Are you doing a lot of door?

[George Camel]

If I looked at your bank statement, what would I see as the number one thing that you're overspending on?

[Caller]

I don't know, Maybe fast food. Go. Yeah, I guess. Going out fast food, huh?

[Jade Warshaw]

You go out with your buddies, you guys go have some drinks, anything like that?

[Caller]

I don't have time for that. I work too much.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so here's what George and I are saying. If you make a hundred, and I mean we could talk about taxes and nickel and diamond, but essentially if you made a hundred thousand dollars a year, 126, you could live on a hundred and pay this debt off right. At the basic level in less than a year. Can you live on a hundred thousand dollars a year?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think so.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think so too. You're a single guy. I mean. Yes. You've got your kids to take care of. How many to.

[Caller]

Three?

[Jade Warshaw]

Three. Okay. How old are they?

[Caller]

16, 20 and nine.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And the 20 year old, is she in college?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you put towards that every month?

[Caller]

About 600.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And what are you taking home? Like what ends up in your paycheck? Is it like $8,000?

[Caller]

Oh, that's right. I also have a pension loan out.

[George Camel]

A pension loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell us about that.

[Caller]

Yeah, that I didn't even. I totally forgot about that because that comes out of my check automatically. So that I think I have about, probably about 24,000 left to pay on that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, how much comes out of Your.

[Caller]

Check is 463 every two weeks.

[Jade Warshaw]

What caused you to take that pension loan?

[Caller]

Oh, that's a long story.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, what about credit cards? Are you using those?

[Caller]

No. Oh. Oh, glad you said that. So there's a. I got about 6,000 on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Capital One.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Now, now it's starting to come into view.

[George Camel]

We went from 25 up to 50. Now we're at 56. Anything else you want to tell us about, like hand on the Bible, what else do you have going on?

[Jade Warshaw]

Student loans.

[Caller]

That's. I forgot about the Capital One card.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you forget about student loans?

[George Camel]

I brought it up a year ago.

[Caller]

No, I don't have any student loans.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank God.

[George Camel]

Is any of this in collections?

[Caller]

The Capital One card.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

And the gas bill.

[George Camel]

All right, are you ready to like take control of this? As a grown man with three about grown kids and you're like, dude, I'm ready to clean up my life. Because if you're ready, we can help you. If not, call us back when you want.

[Caller]

I got it. Yeah, I am.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

I'm just too stressed out.

[George Camel]

Starting tonight, you're going to make this budget, and it's going to give you so much peace to just to have the numbers laid out in front of you, even if it's scary, even to go, ugh, I don't like what I see. At least it's not the boogeyman and all the unknowns. I'd rather you be scared of the facts than the unknowns. So we're gonna gift you every dollar to actually make the Budget. It's a digital app you can download, and you're gonna list out your income for the month. And if that's 7,500, you list that in the income section. Below that, you're gonna list every expense you can think of, including your minimum debt payments. And what you're gonna see very quickly is if you're going over budget every month or under budget, and you should have wiggle room to use that money to throw at the debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I want you to use your bank statement as a guide when you do this, because I kind of feel like you have something that's living in your head of what you spend versus what's actual reality. So if you don't use that bank statement, you're going to say that you spend $400 on food, right. When the reality is you might spend, like, eleven hundred dollars on. On food. Right? So go back, get the bank statement for September, and use that as a guide when you make this budget going into November. Okay, that's going to let you see. Okay, now. Now you're going to see. Oh, yeah, this pension thing came out. Now you're going to see. Oh, yeah, this is what I spend on gas. And it's going to take you. You know, you could do it. If I felt like you had an accurate picture, you could probably do it in 30 minutes. But I really think you need to look at these numbers. It's going to take you an hour or so to get this done, but it's going to give you, like George said, so, so much peace. And the other question is, are you investing at all?

[Caller]

No, nothing serious. Just pennies on Robinhood.

[George Camel]

Oh, boy. Okay, let's delete Robinhood for now. Can you promise me that?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay. We're not really building any wealth over here. We're just wasting time.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what do you get every year when you do your taxes, what kind of refund do you get?

[Caller]

I don't. Last year was the first time I owed. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good. Yeah. The budget. I mean, it's the blood work. It tells all. It tells everything that's wrong with you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

So once you do this budget, you're going to figure out your main expenses. Here's like, food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, minimum debt payments. Anything beyond that, you're going to get real judicious and cut out, and that means eating out. That's got to go because we got. We got to clean this mess up, and we don't want it to take 10 years. Let's do this in 18 months. Does that sound better?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Well, think about this. You got 56,000 in debt, let's say just using ballpark numbers, and. And you throw 2500amonth at this, you're done in 22 months, less than two years. That sounds great, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And we avoid bankruptcy, which is going to implode our life for the next seven years and hurt your ability to get jobs, to rent apartments. It's going to hurt you in a huge way to file bankruptcy, especially over a. Over debts these small.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so I don't think bankruptcy is your answer. I think you are the answer, Peter. So hang on the line. We're going to gift you every dollar. Make that budget tonight. It's going to give you a whole lot of clarity and the new every dollar in that onboarding, that first 15 minutes, it's going to show you how much margin you will create if you decide to commit. And so it's like we're going to be in your pocket, guiding you along the way on this journey. And we are rooting for you, man. We think you're worth it. We think those kids are worth it. And you're very capable. If someone's willing to pay you $130,000 a year, you are smart enough to make a budget and get out of this debt once and for all. But first, you got to stop going into it. Debt is not a shortcut. It's not the answer, man. You are.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[George Camel]

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[Jade Warshaw]

Foreign.

[George Camel]

This is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 888-825. 5225. You call us and we'll talk about your life and your money. Eli is up next in Indianapolis. What is happening, Eli?

[Caller]

How are you doing, guys?

[George Camel]

We're doing well. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well. So my question is, I lied to my girlfriend. That's not the question.

[George Camel]

That's an admission. It's a confession. We appreciate the honesty here.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

I'm not a priest, though. I can't help. Maybe we can help financially for two.

[Caller]

Two years now that I can't afford stuff, that I'm broke and that I like staying in. I'm not, I'm not broke. I, I can afford pretty much what I want. I'm out of debt. 100. I own my house.

[George Camel]

And she thinks you're broke because for two years you were like, hey, listen, I'm strapped for cash.

[Caller]

Yep, pretty much. And she. It's not like I've been mooching off her or anything. Like, I, I pay my way. I, I don't. I'm not trying to be worthless in that matter or anything.

[Jade Warshaw]

But why then?

[Caller]

I just, like, I've got a 95, 95 Toyota Tacoma. She's always asking me, why don't I get something else? And I always tell her I can't afford it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why.

[George Camel]

Why not just tell her I'm happy with my truck?

[Caller]

I mean. Yeah.

[George Camel]

What?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What's behind all the pathological lies?

[Caller]

It was pretty stupid, wasn't it?

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it because you just said it and then once you said it, you were like, I gotta stick to it.

[George Camel]

Now you gotta play this weird character.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I mean, what is her financial situation? Is she bad with money? Is that. Why Are you afraid that if you tell her that you are good with money that she'll start mooching off you?

[Caller]

That's. That's been my. That's what I've had happen in the past.

[George Camel]

Ah, so there's some past baggage and trauma, and so you're going, well, I'm not going to do that again. That hurt?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

And so now I'm going to lie because if she knows I have money, I could get hurt again?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Is that a more accurate picture? So. Because usually behind every lie there's a fear, there's a lie that you told yourself long before you lied to someone else.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Caller]

And honestly, I didn't even realize it's been a lie until a couple months ago. And then I'm thinking, like, I'm wanting to get serious with this, with this girl, and I'm wanting to make things happen so she's gonna have to find out sooner than later.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long have you been dating?

[Caller]

We've been about two years, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Two years. And you've been saying this from the jump. Here's what I want to know, because I know you're saying that you've been lying. I'm trying to. I want to go a little bit deeper on this. So does she think that you have mortgage debt or you just haven't mentioned it? Does she think that you carry debt?

[Caller]

She knows my house is paid off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay.

[Caller]

So I was. I was. I was very proud whenever I paid my house off. I. She was the first one that I let know when I paid my house off about six months ago.

[Jade Warshaw]

But, like, when it comes to doing fun or what you might think of extravagant things, even though you're thinking, hey, yeah, I might enjoy doing that, you're lying and saying, no, I don't want to spend money on that. I just like a simple life, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Is it affecting your relationship? Is she frustrated that you guys can't enjoy experiences and eating out? No.

[Caller]

No.

I mean, she's. She's a very, very simple woman. And I've. That's kind of what's.

[George Camel]

I would just have to come to Jesus conversation, take her to a different environment and maybe a different place, a date, whatever, and say, listen, I gotta come clean because I want this relationship to be built on trust. I've done a poor job of that. And then say, here's what I did, here's why I did it, and I Am very sorry. Will you forgive me? Can we move forward with this relationship with honesty?

[Caller]

Yes. Okay.

[George Camel]

That's the only way forward. And her response is, now that's up to her how she responds. She might say, kick rocks, pound sand. I'm done with this relationship.

[Jade Warshaw]

I just, I have a funny thought about this though. Like, usually. Okay, here's the thing, Eli. Usually if somebody says they've been lying, I'm like, ready to go hard in the paint. But I'm listening to you. You have no debt. You have a paid off mortgage. Part of me is like, how much are you lying? Because I'm like, you seem like you are kind of a simple guy who doesn't want to spend a lot of money because you've done all of these things. So I'm trying to. I need an example of, like, what you said. That was a lie. Like what you've been saying to her. Because I'm like. It sounds.

[George Camel]

You sound pretty simple to me.

[Caller]

The most. The simplest example is I was working on my. My pickup truck. It's a 95 Toyota and it's kind of a hunk of junk, but I grew up dirt poor.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I love. I love that truck. I don't need anything else. Yeah, I drive. I hardly ever drive. What? She asked me, well, why don't I just get something newer and better? And I told, I told her I can't afford it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. When really you feel like the reason is I just don't want it.

[George Camel]

It's not a priority for you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[George Camel]

But you felt weird saying that it was easier for you to like, to have the guys of, like. Well, it's just. It's too much money for me.

[Caller]

Yes. And then there. Her and her family went on a cruise a while back, and I didn't go because I couldn't afford it is what I said.

[Jade Warshaw]

But really what you're feeling is you're. You came from being dirt poor and you're. It sounds like you're afraid to go back to that. And so certain things that other people might splurge and spend money on, you're like, listen, I. I don't feel the need to do that.

[Caller]

Yes, I. I really don't.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so maybe it's just a simple thing of changing the language. And next time you talk to her, you're saying, you know what? I've been telling you I can't afford things, but I want you to know my heart. I. Technically, I can't afford it. I just don't care about spending money on Those sorts of things. You know me, I've got a paid off house. You know, I don't carry debt. And my priorities with money, I feel like sometimes our priorities with money are different. And maybe that's the conversation because you kind of painted yourself to be a lie, like a liar about it. I don't know. It doesn't feel like.

[George Camel]

You don't seem like a terrible person.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And it's the weirdest thing to lie.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's.

[George Camel]

Most people would say, I lied. I'm actually in crippling debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[George Camel]

And she thinks I'm very wealthy.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're sort of motivation. You're not telling her your true motivation.

[George Camel]

But I would say I would. I think it's okay to just sit her down and say, I need to be honest with you. I know, like, this is a big deal to me. It may not be to you, but my phrasing and language has not been honest.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

When I tell you that I'm broke, I don't have the money, really, it's just. It's not a priority for me. And I don't care to spend money on those things. But it's my bad for positioning myself like I was some broke person when truly I'm not.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. And maybe even line it up with the next part of that, which you did. Let us know that you're kind of worried that if she knows that you technically can't afford to do these things, you're worried that she's going to try to inflate your lifestyle in a way that you don't necessarily agree with or want to do. And I think it's important to have those conversations before you think about things like getting engaged or getting married, because you do want to find out. You know, and it's. Don't get me wrong, it's okay if she's different from you, but you guys need to start figuring out what that balance looks like. And to George's point, you being very honest in your communication from here on out is going to be very important.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

I hope that helps. Eli, That's a very interesting conundrum. Thanks for trusting us with this situation.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Wow. All right, let's try to take a quick one here from Mike in St. Louis. Up next. What's happening, Mike?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, so I'm wondering if my wife and I can Pause Baby steps four and five to finish baby step six in under 24 months. And the reason I'm kind of feeling that way is because I'm looking at it the same way you guys look at Baby Step 3B where you can pause investing for two years or less while you're saving up money for a house. It's just I already have a house so I'm trying to get your guys thoughts on that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Short answer is I'm always going to tell somebody to walk the baby steps in order. How much do you owe on the house? What are we talking about?

[Caller]

Just checked. Yeah, it's a 137,000 left.

[George Camel]

How many kids do you have?

[Caller]

Just one.

[George Camel]

And how old are you guys?

[Caller]

I'm 30 and she's 28.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And the child I imagine is very young.

[Caller]

Actually she's 13 from previous relationship.

[George Camel]

Okay, so we're talking and what's the college in five years? Do you have enough covered right now to cover college or to help pay for it?

[Caller]

We have about 30,000 which would cover the first probably year or two depending on where she went.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you're doing no investing right now?

[Caller]

Oh no. We are doing baby steps four and five right now. We would pause to do this.

[George Camel]

I love your, your excitement to get the house paid off. I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze on this. To pause the investing, to pause college. I would just keep investing 15% put some money towards college. The house will get paid off probably a year later. Big whoop. I, I don't think you need the gazelle intensity that you currently have. You're moving from intense to intentional in baby steps four, five and six. I'd stay that way. Thanks for the call but this is the Ramsey show. Hey guys. George here. You know I hate debt and that includes sleep debt. I've been there. Fatigue, low energy, brain fog. And that's why I switched to Casper. My Casper mattress helps me sleep easier, cooler and, and deeper. And now every bedroom in my house has one. On top of that Casper ships free. Comes with a hundred night trial and if you don't love it, they'll come pick it up. So let's ditch the sleep debt and build sleep wealth. Go to Casper.com Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 30% off all mattresses and up to 35% off everything else. That's Casper.com Ramsey promo code. Ramsey exclusions apply.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw. The number to call is, calling, 882-55-5225. Well it's time for our long running segment, Jade.

[Jade Warshaw]

And by long running you mean this is the third time.

[George Camel]

Third time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

It's long for me, you know, so it's called Pick a side. And this is where we have two people on the line and we have to help them kind of settle a debate. And you and I, at the end of it, have to pick a side after we hear them out.

[Jade Warshaw]

I enjoy this thoroughly.

[George Camel]

I pitched Judge George for the name of this segment. They didn't like that. Judge George and I wanted a little gavel.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, well, it's a little baby gavel then. I'm going to pitch Judge Jade.

[George Camel]

Oh, dang. That's so much cooler. All right, I give up. Here we go. Let's see what Jennifer and Joe have to say in Denver, Colorado. What's going on, guys?

[Caller]

Hi. Yeah, I'm ready to buy a new car and my husband thinks I'm fine with the one that I have.

[George Camel]

All right, Joe, what do you have to say for yourself?

[Caller]

Well, I do agree that she needs a new car. She just wants to spend way too much on a new car.

[George Camel]

What? Way too much?

[Caller]

50,000.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a lot of money.

[George Camel]

And that's the most you guys have ever spent on anything outside of a house, I'm guessing.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. Where are you guys at financially?

[Caller]

We're on baby step seven.

[George Camel]

Paid for house. No debt. Love it. And what's your net worth?

[Caller]

It would be what our house is worth.

Yeah. 600,000 plus retirement.

700.

[George Camel]

So not quite a million.

[Caller]

No. Okay.

[George Camel]

All right. And what's the household income?

[Caller]

150, approximately 150.

[George Camel]

And how much cash do you guys have in the bank?

[Caller]

We have our emergency fund right now.

Of 10,000 and I got 10,000 in my business account.

[Jade Warshaw]

So. 10,000 and 10,000 if you were to buy this car. A. Is it. Were you thinking of getting something brand spanking new? And two, how are you going to pay for it?

[Caller]

I would want to save up for it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I don't necessarily want something new. It's just what I want just came out. So I want to wait a couple of years until I can buy one a couple years old.

[Jade Warshaw]

What kind of car is it? Can. Can you tell us?

[Caller]

It's the Toyota Grand. Highlander.

[George Camel]

Highlander. Where's John Deloney when we need him? That's what he ended up getting.

[Jade Warshaw]

I need, like, a picture of a Highlander. I don't really know what that is. I'm gonna Google it.

[George Camel]

They're beautiful, really great cars. Okay, so what is the car you're currently driving?

[Caller]

I have a 2007 Acura MDX, and it's getting close to 200,000 miles on it.

[George Camel]

Oh, she's just getting started.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a nice. That's a nice.

[George Camel]

MDX is invincible. Okay. Love that. And what is he driving? I'm curious.

[Caller]

I have a 2004 GMC pickup truck. And then we also have a 2020 Transit Connect van. I'm self employed and so I use that van for work.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Cool.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Might be time for both of you to upgrade. Step seven, living like no one else.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know.

[George Camel]

That's. So I'm guessing you guys have a sizable margin in your budget now to save up, how much could you throw every single month just to kind of a side savings account?

[Caller]

Oh, I think we could have it saved in six months.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Wow.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's pretty impressive.

[Caller]

Pretty simple. So, yeah, I mean, we could save 5,6000amonth. That's great expenses.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so tell us, Joe, why tell us what you would do if it were your choice? Obviously, we know Jennifer wants this $50,000 Toyota Highlander slightly used in your book. What's something a little bit more reasonable?

[Caller]

30, 35,000. Maybe not the grand Highlander, but the regular Highlander.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what I'm looking at. This one I'm looking at is like 30,000, 20, 23 Highlander. Not the one.

[Caller]

No, I want the grand.

[Jade Warshaw]

You want the big boy.

[Caller]

They just came out in 2024.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, got you.

[George Camel]

Joe, I'm curious.

[Jade Warshaw]

Where.

[George Camel]

Where'd you get that 35 number from? Just your heart.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. Just my heart.

[George Camel]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

I mean, I look on Craigslist and you can find the regular highlanders.

[Jade Warshaw]

I see one.

[Caller]

30, 30,000 miles for 30,000 or so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I see what's going on here. Okay, interesting.

[George Camel]

All right, we have a lot of information here.

[Caller]

I feel like, you know, we've been doing Dave Ramsey's baby steps for a long time. I feel like I've been living like nobody else. When do I. We're on baby step seven. When do I get to live like nobody else?

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, I feel that. So tell me, when was the last time you did an activity that you would call a live like no one else? The ladder that you like at least.

[George Camel]

A couple of grand where you're like, we dropped some money on this.

[Caller]

We went to the Dominican. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. When was that?

[Caller]

Last month.

[George Camel]

Nice.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay.

[George Camel]

So you guys are enjoying life.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

So we would say you. You've driven like no one else. Now it's time to drive like no one else. You've driven the. The Hooptie Dave car. Now it's time to drive the Dave car. You know what I'm saying?

[Jade Warshaw]

I've made up my mind. I know what I'm. I know how I'm gonna vote it it.

[Caller]

I got in a car accident a couple months ago, so it's dinged up.

[Jade Warshaw]

On the side and listen, you keep playing. Tell us more.

[George Camel]

She's like, really playing it up.

[Caller]

All these stupid little things don't work on it anymore. Like, you cannot reset my clock. You can't tell what time it is in there.

[Jade Warshaw]

Jennifer. I call those special features.

[Caller]

My seatbelt doesn't go back.

[George Camel]

Listen, I got my phone in the car. I got my Apple watch in the car. I know what time it is. It's fine. That's not a big deal. But I'm with you. Here's okay. Can I vote?

[Jade Warshaw]

I know what my vote is. Are we casting votes?

[George Camel]

I think we're casting votes. You guys ready to hear the verdict?

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's say it on three.

[George Camel]

All right. The name of the person that we think is right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Say the name of the person you think is right on three. One, two, three.

[George Camel]

Jennifer.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Jennifer, you just won a brand new. I'm just kidding.

[Jade Warshaw]

Toyota Highlander.

[George Camel]

Be fantastic. A dinette set from Broy Hill. I could be on prize, I think.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you shocked?

[Caller]

No, I'm shocked.

[Jade Warshaw]

Of course Joe is shocked.

[George Camel]

Here's the thing, because I know this. We bought my wife a new to US car. It was a slightly used luxury car and it hurt my soul, Joe, to write that check. But I also knew this is part of living the plan.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's part of the plan.

[George Camel]

And I have a hard time letting go and writing a big check like that. But when you pay for it in cash, you go, oh, my gosh, that was a lot. And then you go, this is paid for. This is amazing. This is a huge blessing, and it's why we lived like this for so many years. And so I think you guys are doing the right thing. Just so you know the parameters here, you don't want all things with motors and wheels to be more than half of your annual income. So that's where I'm going. All right. 150k is your income. Everything you own should be 75k.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, Joe, you could turn around and get yourself a $50,000 car and be all right now.

[George Camel]

What is this transit connect worth?

[Caller]

About 20,000.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So even the 20 plus the 50 for hers, that would be 70. You still got some wiggle room there. Not too much.

[Jade Warshaw]

Too much.

[George Camel]

And, you know, maybe you wait three years and you get the Highlander, but I think you, you go for it in two years from now and you get a two year old grand Highlander. And if you can't wait that long, then just go for a normal Highlander and you can always upgrade later. Nothing says you have to drive this car for the next 20 years, which is kind of how you guys have been living, right? I feel like Joe's really disappointed. No, you shouldn't spend more than 30. But I think that will help you guys to go. Okay? Half of our income shouldn't be tied up in these things. Yeah, that means we do need to scale back because this transit, plus the car Joe's going to get, plus the car Jennifer is going to get, it's going to add up to be a large part of our world. And then once you hit millionaire status, you can go buy that brand new car. And here's why. It's not a, you know, fundamentalist thing. It's just that too much of your world would be tied up in a depreciating asset. But when you have $1 million net worth, you can stomach that hit on depreciation a little easier. And so you guys will be there no time. How old are you two?

[Caller]

I'm 45 and I'm 56.

[George Camel]

Oh, my goodness. You got so much time to live and drive like no one else. And you know what, Joe? I think it should be time for you to upgrade after. What is your dream car, Joe?

[Jade Warshaw]

It's a $30,000 car. We know that.

[Caller]

It's the one he's got.

I actually love my truck.

[George Camel]

He wants another GMC pickup.

[Caller]

No, he wants.

[Jade Warshaw]

He wants to keep the one he has.

[Caller]

He wants the one I got.

[George Camel]

That's amazing.

[Caller]

It's got an eight foot bed, it's got the diesel, and I'm good.

[George Camel]

Thank you, Joe. They don't make those eight foot beds anymore. All these new pavement princesses out here got the tiniest little beds. I'm like, what are we even buying pickup trucks for anymore?

[Jade Warshaw]

So then, Joe, real quick, tell us if you could spend $30,000 on anything, not a vehicle, what is your thing? Like, what's your live like? No one else thing.

[Caller]

I would do a boat.

[George Camel]

Hey, okay, there we go.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now we got it.

[George Camel]

Joe is in the boat. Thank you guys so much for the call and for letting us have some fun. Excited for you guys to make that cash purchase of that beautiful new to you car very, very soon. More of your calls coming up. Trip 8882-55225. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

The holidays can come with a lot.

[Jade Warshaw]

Of pressure to spend.

[Caller]

Family, friends, Secret Santa at the office, all the things.

[Jade Warshaw]

But y', all, this season should be about peace, not payments.

[Caller]

That's a big reason why I love Fairwinds Credit Union.

[Jade Warshaw]

They share the Ramsey values of helping.

[Caller]

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[Jade Warshaw]

And with the Fairwind Smart Bundle, Ramsey.

[Caller]

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[Jade Warshaw]

It says debt is normal, be weird right there on the front.

[Caller]

So every time you use it, it's a reminder that you're doing your money differently. So this Christmas, skip the credit cards and celebrate progress, not payments.

[Jade Warshaw]

Spend with peace of mind, knowing that you're sticking to your budget and staying debt free. And check out the Fairwinds Smart Bundle.

[Caller]

[e-mail] Ramsey and open up the Smart.

[Jade Warshaw]

Bundle and grab your exclusive Ramsey Beware debit card. That's fairwinds.org Ramsey Fairwinds is federally insured by the NCUA. You're listening to the Ramsey Show. The Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by. Why refi? Why refi refinances defaulted private secure student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. Now, you guys, private student loans are a, are different than federal student loans, right? Like Sallie Mae. So learn more about this custom refinancing option and a lump sum payoff option you could qualify for after 24 months. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey this may not be available in all states.

[George Camel]

Today's question comes from Alyssa in Pennsylvania. Oh, never mind. It's Courtney in Iowa. We had two. I'm gonna go with Courtney in Iowa. Final answer, she asked. My ex husband and I received a large inheritance during our marriage and set aside college money for both of our children. Now my ex is financially strapped and has asked our youngest son for his college fund, which he didn't end up needing to fund his education. Our son is 24 and getting married soon and I trust he will use the money responsibly. I, I can't believe my ex has put our youngest son into a terrible position. Is our son morally obligated to give his father this money? Short answer, I'm going to say no. There's no moral obligation. There's no legal obligation.

[Jade Warshaw]

No. And I have questions though. I mean, my first thought is okay. The parents put the money aside for the kids. In the 529, they list the child as the beneficiary. Unless there was a discussion that was like, hey, if you don't use this money, it goes back to us and they change the beneficiary back to themselves or the wife or whatever. I don't know. But if it's still in the son's name, I'd be like, this is my money.

[George Camel]

Or I mean, he's.

[Jade Warshaw]

I can pass.

[George Camel]

Married, kids. How cool would it be to change the beneficiary to their kid?

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

[George Camel]

In a year or two or five or whoever. You know, I think that's. And part of this is we're enabling this ex's bad behavior. For a grown man to just suddenly be financially strapped and need to rob his kid's college fund tells me a lot about the character of this person.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. Because a 529 is a gift. Like is you gifting the gift of education to your.

[George Camel]

Well, the confusing part is this came from a large inheritance during their marriage that they then set aside in a college fund.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. But still, even if they had worked to save the money, you know, it would still be money that they earmarked and said, this is a gift to our kids for their education. So. So in many ways it does feel like revoke, like, like turning around on a gift.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I'm.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't like it.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I don't like it. And I don't like this ex having. I think he needs to find a different method to get this money than to rob the college fund, which by the way will come with a whole bunch of penalties. You gotta pay income taxes, plus the 10% penalty on top of that. And so I, I'd hate to see that when this money's been growing tax free, it can be used for future generations to allow them to go to college debt free. And who knows what college is going to cost 18 or 20 years from now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right? Right.

[George Camel]

When this son has kids.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And if you're, I mean, let's just pretend for a second. Let's play this out, George. Let's say how much money would need to have been in there to pay for kids college? Maybe, maybe there's $70,000 in there to pay for the whole thing. If he didn't use it, then this is idea of my ex is financially strapped. Like you don't suddenly up and need 50 or $70,000. That's over time, many decisions being made so, yeah, my final answer is, this.

[George Camel]

Whole thing just gives me heartburn just looking at it. But I would say no, your son is not morally obligated to give his father this money. And I wouldn't if I were him.

[Jade Warshaw]

And if I were the mom, so I can keep going on this. And if I were the mom, it was both of their inheritance that's the same.

[George Camel]

We don't know where this came from and all that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, she says my ex husband and I received an inheritance. I'm like, part of this is on her too. Like she should get to decide. And if she says no, this is our son's money, that on that, you.

[George Camel]

Can figure it out. All right, thanks for the question. That's a real. These are the common core math problem. It hurt my brain.

[Jade Warshaw]

These are the hard topics that George and I go after on the Ramsay show. It's very hard hitting content, what we do. All right, let's go to David in Providence, Rhode Island. What's going on, David?

[Caller]

Oh, hello.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Hello.

[Jade Warshaw]

How are you?

[Caller]

Hi. All right? I'm good. How are you? I'm. I like how Dave puts it. I'm better than. Better than I deserve.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, love to hear it. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So me and my wife are in an interesting financial choice right now. And I think it's kind of like a pivotal choice. And I just need some advice. So we have no debt, no kids. Lord willing, we'd like to have kids in about five years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then at that point, you know, we would go down to like a single income. You know, we just would both value her being a full time mother. So we have about 40 to $45,000 saved up in the bank. And we're currently renting an apartment. Right now our rent is 1575amonth, which is sort of average for the area that we live in. So our question, my question rather is do we buy a home that we can afford right now that would not really suit us when we have children? Meaning we would probably have to sell it in about five years? Or do we continue to rent for like another three to five years and then buy a house that would be bigger, Maybe. Maybe suit us more as a larger family?

[George Camel]

Why would you need to sell when you have one kid?

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what I was gonna ask.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, we really wouldn't need to sell for like the first kid. We kind of both would like to have more than just one, though. But yeah, I mean, like, but that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Stretches you to like five or that stretches five years to like Maybe seven years. No, as far as space, because an infant is like this big.

[Caller]

Yeah. Well, so maybe I should define the space a little better.

[George Camel]

I mean they don't make one bedroom homes or.

[Caller]

Well, condoms. We're looking at is 200. 200,000 for. It's not really a home. I guess it's more like a cottage. It's 650 square feet.

[George Camel]

That's like a tiny home.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's super small. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that does change a little bit. That's. That's tiny.

[George Camel]

So what if we got something more reasonable? Let's say it's a two or three bedroom to where you could grow into it even with two kids. Even if it was a little bit tight, what would that cost you in this area?

[Caller]

I mean, there's nothing. It would either need such a large amount of repair that it's like really a huge undertaking. Like more than just an average fixer upper.

[George Camel]

So what about one in good condition? You don't have to do some HDTV show.

[Caller]

Probably about like 350 or so.

[George Camel]

That's reasonable. And you're gonna keep saving. A down payment is 45 everything you have in savings. Does that include your emergency fund or is this just earmarked for down payment?

[Caller]

That's. That's everything we have. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that does change it a little bit too.

[George Camel]

So I would. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

Yeah, so right now with both of us, it's about 160 to 170,000 a year. But if, you know, after we have a kid and my wife would stop, you know, making an income right then that would go down to about, I don't know, 110 or so. I mean it depends on with me getting a raise between now and then and whatever, but you know, around 110, something like that.

[George Camel]

I would say you're on the path and I would just set the home budget that makes sense. And then go, okay, well how much more down payment do we need to save up to make this affordable to where it's no more than 25% of our take home pay. And that I would base that take home pay off of your income alone, since you know, that's the goal.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And the good thing is your rent is not astronomical. Like your rent is not far out that I'd be like, you got to get out of this rent. You're paying 3,000 bucks a month for rent, right? You guys, rent is at a good spot and I don't think that I'd be interested. I know it's not an actual tiny house. But I don't think I'd get into this tiny house deal. I think I'd ride the wave and just go, you know what? We're going to take the. Instead of living five years in this 600 square foot house that basically is an apartment, let's live in an apartment and let's save up this money and do this, this $350,000 deal.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. That's kind of what we were thinking about. I value the opinion. Thank you so much. For what it's worth, our apartment is actually bigger than the house. It's nothing crazy, but it's doesn't take much.

[George Camel]

700 square foot apartment, you just beat the cottage for sure. I would go slow. There's no urgency or rush on this and I would just stack up as much as I can. While you have two incomes and no kids, now is the time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And you might need to save up 100 grand or 150 grand to make this payment affordable for your solo income in the future. But that's what I would do. I would aim for that 350 house and try to get there as soon as possible. Because Jade, like we know, it's a moving target.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's right.

[George Camel]

Three years from now, that might be a 450 house.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. So you still want to move with urgency, still move with intensity. And of course, we never want that payment to be more than 25% of your take home pay. All in. That's thinking about things like homeowners, all of it. So that's the framework that we're working with. Hey, thanks for hanging out with us. That does it for this hour of the show. George and I will be right back with you before you know it, this is the Ramsey show.

[George Camel]

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[Jade Warshaw]

And.

[George Camel]

And they keep it gone, which means fewer weird robocalls, fewer spam texts. And it's the gift that keeps on giving because it's an annual subscription, and Ramsey listeners can get 20% off those annual plans at JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey with code Ramsey at checkout. Do it today. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey code Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. And the number to call is 888-825-5225. If you want to join the conversation and pose your question for the good of the group and for the good of America, Chris has chosen to do that. He's in Washington. What's going on, Chris?

[Caller]

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

[George Camel]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

So my wife and I, we're new parents. Well, relatively new. Our son's nine months old. I'm super excited about that. We made the decision to have her stay home because daycare was too expensive. And we're just trying to figure out if you guys have any tips and tricks to, you know, managing our money going forward and making sure that we're setting ourselves up for success in retirement and setting him up for college and all that good stuff.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So what was she making before she decided to stay home?

[Caller]

She was making about 75,000 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And what do, what do you make?

[Caller]

I currently make 110 roughly annually. And then I have a side business that I run that brings in anywhere from 20 to 45 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So we'll just say that you're at 130. You feel good about that?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so have you guys done a new every dollar budget with this? 130. Because how much does that allow you to take home every month?

[Caller]

You know, that's. That's been really, really new for us. And so, you know, if I had to put a number on it, I mean, we have our mortgage. We have no other consumer debt. We've done a really, really good job, got all of our vehicles paid off and everything like that. And so, you know, our mortgage is roughly 2400amonth. And then living expenses, you know, add another, you know, 300. 350.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I don't think your mortgage is going to be the problem, I think. Are things feeling tight, Clarity?

[George Camel]

I'm wondering. It sounds like you have, like, a little bit of regret. Like, should we have done this? Things feel tight. So where is that coming from?

[Caller]

Yeah, I just, I'm, I'm so analytical when it comes to like looking at our budget. And we've, you know, both worked really, really hard coming out of, you know, roughly $95,000 in student loan debt, you know, over the past three years. And you know, we've, we've just worked really, really hard. And I don't ever want to put our family in a place where we're in need for money, you know what I mean? And we've done a really, really good job of that. We have a bunch of money put aside already, you know.

[George Camel]

And so you're following the baby steps.

[Caller]

To a T. Yeah, pretty. I mean, I would say so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you said that, but you didn't answer the question when I said how much you're bringing home every month.

[Caller]

Oh yeah. I mean we bring home probably, let's see, 40 now, 6,800amonth roughly.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I'm going to challenge after, I'm going to challenge you to, for your own good because you described yourself in one way, and don't get me wrong, it probably was the way that you were before you had an eight month old. You said, I'm very analytical and I'm really on this. But the truth is right now you're actually not on your numbers. You're kind of guessing at them. And I have a theory that the reason that you're feeling that, that tightness or that feeling of like you don't like the way your money is feeling, I think it's more because you don't know exactly what's going on and you don't have a clear path and plan for it. That's why I asked about your, your every dollar budget. Because if you look at that tonight with your wife, once baby's down, once you guys have, you know, had something to eat and you say, okay, we're going to look at every dollar tonight we're going to plug in our numbers, we're going to log on HR and find out exactly what the check is. And now we're going to plug in the mortgage, everything we think we're spending money on. What does life look like now with an 8 month old? How much are we spending on diapers now versus when the baby was first born? All of those things are going to give you a much clearer picture on what it looks like today with the new lifestyle that you're in today. And I think that's actually going to help you because 130,000 where you live. I think you should Be okay. Now, don't get me wrong, to lose 75,000 a year is a lot of money. But that lead, that actually led me to my other point of it's just one baby.

[Caller]

Right, Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you're telling me that it costs $75,000 a year to daycare one baby. That's not true.

[Caller]

No, no, it wasn't much of that. It was, you know, more so. You know, I want A, ready was expensive to do daycare and B, for the amount of money it was going to cost us. You know, she wanted to stay home and wanted to raise our son and be.

[Jade Warshaw]

Which is fine. That's fine. But the way you framed it was it wasn't worth it for her to go to work. You made it seem like it was more of a cost thing. So it's just personal values.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, you're right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's fine. I think all of that though, what I'm trying to get you to is clarity. And I think if you can clearly say we're doing this because we value mom being at home with baby, that is a whole different conversation than it's too expensive. We can't afford daycare. Right. So now you're talking about real things, which is no, this is a value of ours. Which knowing that is also going to reflect how you feel now about the budget being shorter. Because you've said no. In our hearts we want this. So now we are able to tackle a smaller budget or working with a smaller income. Do you see what I'm saying? I'm just trying to get real. I mean, George, you know how it feels to have an eight month old at the house.

[George Camel]

Oh, you're not a newborn. A two year old. Life is chaotic. And that's where you and your wife sitting down, looking at the budget every month and just going, okay, I want to bring seven grand in this month. And our mortgage, 2400. We're going to have a thousand left over. What are we going to do with this? And for you guys, you already have the emergency fund.

[Caller]

Yes, we do.

[George Camel]

Are you investing 15% out of every paycheck?

[Caller]

We are.

[George Camel]

Okay. And then beyond that, how much margin would you say you have at the end of every month or is it disappearing into random spending?

[Caller]

I would say more disappearing into random spending.

[George Camel]

I think that's what's making you feel out of control because you're analytical. You're going, the math ain't mathing. There should be two grand laying around and it's gone. And it's amazing. If you like to take all the receipts of all the money you spent, it'll make a little bitty book of the reasons why we feel that way. And so that's where budgeting with the new everydollar, with your bank connected, the transactions are flowing in total transparency and accountability with you and your wife. And then you might decide, oh, you know what? Yeah, we need to be spending more. Because she's like, dude, I'm spending it on things the family needs. We just need to up the budget line item to account for that instead of going, red flag, red flag, you're over budget. So I think there's probably just some discongruity with like what you're actually spending versus what you think you're spending.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, your life has changed a lot. And I mean there's the kid and then there's. Yeah, wife is at home. Money wise, things have changed. And it's just like George said, reflecting your, your, your line items to. Updating your line items to reflect that change.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, I appreciate that a lot. And that's something that we've actually embarked on recently is kind of combining our finances, just listening to you guys and kind of buying into that, buying into that idea of, you know, becoming a unit, you know, and we're, you know, working through those things. And so I really appreciate the feedback.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love it. I think you're doing a great job and I think that you're, you're doing.

[George Camel]

Better than you think.

[Jade Warshaw]

Uh huh. And you're a reflection of the fact that this whole thing is a process. Like no one just in one day or in one listen or in one movement gets it all. It is like building blocks stacking on each other. And like you said, first we did the combined finance thing, then we did the debt payoff thing. All of that is stacking up. And I just, I think you're doing fabulous.

[George Camel]

Are you using a spreadsheet right now or using a budgeting app?

[Caller]

Yeah, we're using, we're using a spreadsheet because that's, that's.

[George Camel]

How many times has she said, hey, can I look at that budget spreadsheet? That sounds fun.

[Caller]

Zero.

[George Camel]

Thank you. Final answer. Your honor, I. Case closed on that.

[Jade Warshaw]

We're going to send you the brand new, all new every dollar for you to have something that not only would a wife like to look at, but now she doesn't have to say, can I see that spreadsheet? You can just say, she'll open the app, she'll open her own app and be able to See it?

[George Camel]

There we go. That'll help get her on board. On top of combining finances. Proud of you guys. You're making progress, man. That's all you can hope for. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[George Camel]

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[George Camel]

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[George Camel]

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[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. The number to call is 3882-55225. You call us up, we'll talk about your life and your money. Jacob is up next in Los Angeles, California. What's going on?

[Caller]

Jacob, Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I kind of need some, I guess, some direction in terms of what to do next in my life financially. My parents recently went through a divorce and so I kind of had to take over as like the main contributor to the household Financially. Currently living with my mother and my younger sibling. So I'm kind of paying for mortgage, you know, all the insurances.

[George Camel]

Why, why is that? Why is mom not working?

[Caller]

Oh, no, no, she is, she is.

So.

Because, you know, cost of living in California is insane. I, the way we set it up is I pay for, I say I want to estimate like 60 to 70% of my take home pay and then the rest is made up by my younger sibling and my mother.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 28 right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so when you say 60 to 70% of your income, tell us dollar wise, how much, how much money is this costing you every month?

[Caller]

I would say maybe around 28 to 3,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you're spending 3,000 bucks kind of paying the, the, the things that make the house go round. And tell me again, explain to me again why mom is not contributing.

[Caller]

No, no, she is, but, but how.

[Jade Warshaw]

Much is she contributing? If you're contributing that much right now.

[Caller]

She'S contributing maybe like 1500.

[Jade Warshaw]

And explain to me why that is.

[Caller]

Well, she doesn't really make much, so because I make the most in the household right now. So I wanted to, you know, obviously.

[George Camel]

So did she ask you to take on the brunt of this or was this something you sort of stepped up and went, mom, here's what I'm going to do?

[Caller]

Yeah, no, I definitely stepped up. I mean it isn't fair for her to, or for me to force her to try and find a job out of nowhere.

[George Camel]

The scary part is it's not fair for you to prop up a lifestyle that's not sustainable for them. Because let's say you go and get married next year, you move out, you're not still paying all of their bills.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how old's your sister?

[Caller]

My sister is 25, I guess to give a little bit more information. So in terms of the unsustainable lifestyle, more or less is the reason we, she got a job is because if me and my sister were to contribute, you know, 100% of our take home pay, we would be able to afford, you know, all the groceries and you know, everything else to make the, to live. But because she, as a, you know, wonderful mother that she is, she's like, oh, I don't want you or both of you to, you know, not have any savings for the future. So she said, I'm going to get a job to do it. But because.

[Jade Warshaw]

Objection. Wait a minute, let me, let me jump in here. Okay, couple quick, quick questions. You guys live in Los Angeles, but It doesn't sound like it's for the reason of a career. Like, nobody's like, listen, I started my. My firm here, and now this is where I'm at. It sounds like you guys are kind of making ends meet, to use your terminology. Why are you still living in such an unsustainable. To quote you, in an inexpensive area?

[Caller]

Well, my dad's business was here, so we all moved here. And my mom does help with that, even through the divorce. You know, it wasn't an ugly divorce. You know, now it was one of the situations where, you know, they got married, you know, out of, you know, necessity, because they needed to help each other.

[Jade Warshaw]

But that money's not filtering into your lifestyle now because they're now divorced and the two children are grown. So my question stands. It sounds like if this is an unsustainable situation for your mom, and I'm saying your mom, because the two kids are grown, like you're grown, it sounds like she's got to decide where can she live that's not Los Angeles, California, in. In afford her lifestyle. Because here's my second part of this. You're 28, your sister's 25. Typically, the reason that somebody would say, somebody your age would say, hey, I'm living at home, is typically because they've got student loans, they've got bills, and it's cheaper for them to live at home than it is for them to maybe do something on their own. And in your case, that's not really the case because you're paying for your mom's life. And I understand that there's, you know, been something traumatic here with the divorce, but it still doesn't place that ball in your court. Do you see what I'm saying? And so I think all three of you have to go, what does my life look like? Where can I live where I can afford to be an independent person? Because. Do you have debt?

[Caller]

No, I have no debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

You have no debt? There's nothing that stops you from saying, hey, I'm gonna go a further radius out from, you know, Los Angeles, California, wherever that is, and I'm going to figure out where I can live to do a job that I can make more money doing and support my lifestyle. What are you earning now and what is your job now?

[Caller]

I'm an analyst for a film studio, and I earn. Gross is around 80,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay? So that's great to me. $80,000. You're doing good. Like, there's gotta be a life that you can have on $80,000. Is that fair enough?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay, so Jacob, on my screen here, it says, how do I make enough to take care of my mom? Is that the ultimate question? Are you wanting to make more so she can stop working?

[Caller]

Yeah, she's working right now to help contribute. But obviously, you know, she's kind of getting up there and age. I don't know how to put that delicately. But, but because she.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old is she?

[Caller]

First language. She's turning 60, but she does have some like health issues.

[George Camel]

So what is her plan for retirement? Because right now you just, it's going to stunt your growth as an independent person to just, well, I got to take care of mom for the rest of my life. I'm going to live at home. What if she lives to be 90? Now you're 58 and still propping up her life.

[Caller]

So.

[George Camel]

Because she didn't prepare.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's. Because that's the kind of situation I'm in. Like she does kind of have like a very loose retirement plan. I don't think it's as structured as I would like personally.

[George Camel]

What is it? But lay it out.

[Caller]

So she, so she said that her plan is to, well, we'll still live in this house that we ordered, this condo that we have. And you know, she.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you say wheel, like all of you will still be living together for her retirement?

[Caller]

No, my sister is planning to move out and so that just mean me and my mother.

[George Camel]

But this is not good.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is not good. This is not good.

[Caller]

Yeah, and I know it's just, it's not good. But yeah, once she is old enough to get Social Security, she says she plans on finding like one of those like, I guess like apartments or whatever that is like income based or like low income, something like that and kind of live there. But I guess another piece of information is my parents do have a second property that's paid off and that's. They're getting like rental income. But because of the divorce, they were debating whether or not selling it or just splitting.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you know what it's worth? If they were to sell it, what would they, what would they take to have to split?

[Caller]

I think collectively if they sold it, they get maybe around a million.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so she'd get 500,000 and then have to take out fees and whatnot, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Getting rental income right now from this property.

[Caller]

Yeah, right now it's already been paid off for years and they've been kind of.

[George Camel]

How much is she making from that.

[Caller]

Now that it's split? She'll make around 1,000.

[George Camel]

And then what is she making from her job?

[Caller]

Right now she's only. She's like elderly care. So I guess it's based off how many people she takes care of. She's only taking care of one person, so she earns around 1500 net. But she says she is planning on, you know, assisting another person. That would bring her income to me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, I don't mean any harm. You got to separate yourself from the situation. This is going to pull you under, dude.

[George Camel]

You're going the opposite direction by saying, I'm going to work more so mom doesn't have to work because that becomes enabling. And you're going to have to keep that up for the rest of your life because mom's not going to up and get a job 10 years from now if you decide to move out, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

And right now you're paying. Like, to your point, you're paying 60 to 70% of the household expenses. She has no reason. And in her mind, the plan is, your sister can go on along, but you're gonna live with me until I'm done. And that. That. That really puts you in a bad position. If I were your mom, I would be talking to ex husband. I'd say, we need to sell this property because I need this $500,000 and I need it in my nest egg so it can grow for me for the next 10 years.

[George Camel]

And she still has to work for the next 10 years.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. Oh, my goodness.

[George Camel]

So, Jacob, we're basically telling you to do everything opposite the way you're headed right now. And it's because we care for you, we care for your mom. We want her to have a great life. And currently her loose retirement plan is going to end up stunting your growth for the next decade or two or three. And so we need to end this codependence right now. Otherwise it's going to hurt both of you in the long run. So sorry to hear that, man. This. This is the Ramsey Show.

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[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade warshaw. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jessica's up next in Nashville, Tennessee, right up the road. What's going on?

[Caller]

Jessica, hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Sure. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So me and my husband recently started listening to the podcast and really getting into finances. And we only have about $2,000 left on our credit card, which will be done within the end of the year. We're looking at our student loans and we just don't know what to do. Mine are all kind of like little, tiny, like 2,000, 3,000 loans, whereas his is like a giant $45,000 loan. And we don't know if there's a.

Difference and who we should tackle first.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, well, I love, number one, that you guys are kind of on this road together. You've decided it's important for you both to pay off the debt and you've decided that it's important to work together. So kudos to that for this. It really is just the methodology of the debt snowball. And all that is is we list all the debt between the both of you in order from smallest to largest, based on balance. So not payment amount, not interest amount, but by balance. So right now you're kind of already doing that. You've got 2,000 left on this credit card. And then what you do with these student loans is you both pull up your, you know, screen of your provider and you go through smallest to largest. Like you said, yours are busted up in little bitty guys. And so you list those smallest to largest. And the same thing with his is, is his a federal loan or a private loan?

[Caller]

It's a federal.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And it's just one. Right. Because sometimes you make one payment, but when you really go in there and look, it's still listed by semester.

[Caller]

No, he had one loan that was going to go into collections, and they told him that he had to consolidate.

One giant federal loan now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, got you. So that's going to be the final one that you pay. But the good news is, because you've worked the snowball, you will have gotten back all those little bits and pieces of payments, so you'll be able to hit it with a big shovel. What. What's the combined amount that you have in student loans?

[Caller]

I have about 65.

[Jade Warshaw]

65. And he's got 45?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and then what's you guys combined income?

[Caller]

A hundred thousand.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So you've got a little bit of a journey here. You know, you've got 112,000 to pay off, and you're making 100,000. Have you jumped onto every dollar? Because we have a really great financial roadmap that you can plug in all your numbers and kind of project what your payoff date is going to be, and then you can project when you'll be ON BABY STEP 3 and how long that'll take. Have you done that yet?

[Caller]

We are on my every dollar. The premium expires today. Actually, we just sat down last night.

[George Camel]

Perfect timing.

[Caller]

All the numbers in there.

[George Camel]

You didn't pay for it yet, did you?

[Caller]

No, sir.

[George Camel]

This feels like a plant. Jessica, did you call in on the day of the expiration, hoping we'd give you every dollar?

[Caller]

I promise I did it. I just happened to look for.

[George Camel]

It's fine either way. We're gonna give it to you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, we're gonna give it to you.

[George Camel]

We're gonna give it to you. So hang on the line after we're done, and we'll help with that. And what I love about everydollar, at the bottom, you're gonna list those debts with the minimum payment with the balance, and it will list them all for you, smallest to largest. And it's a great way to keep track of how. How much extra you're putting on that little one and when it'll be paid off. So that's gonna be a big help. But it really is, I think, psychologically motivating to see the little ones get knocked out. And I know you're gonna get to that big one and go like, oh, gosh, we're in it now, $45,000 ahead of us. But you're probably also going to be making more money a year from now than you are, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, hopefully.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you guys doing any side hustles or anything to supplement that. A hundred thousand?

[Caller]

He does. He does a lot of side projects on the weekends that probably bring in about 400 in.

[Jade Warshaw]

400Amonth? Every. Oh, 800amonth?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, great. Okay, good. So, yeah, I. My recommendation, I think that if you have debt, and this is not just for you, but anybody has debt, they need to be bringing in anywhere between five and 2,000 extra dollars. That for me is the 500 to 2,000. Yeah, at least 5,000. But if you can get to 2,000, you're. You're swinging for the fences.

[George Camel]

500. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I like that plan. And Jessica, the fun part for me, and maybe I'm a math nerd, I go, okay, how little can we live off of out of this? 110. And that might mean we pause investing. It should mean that if you guys are currently investing, let's pause that to get some money back in our budget. And then with our take home pay, we go, all right, it takes us $2,000 to cover all of our basic bills. That should free up another 2,000 of our 4,000 take home pay to tackle the debt. And now you kind of know the gap. Because if you do the math right now, how long is it going to take you to get out of debt?

[Caller]

At the current pace, probably about 15 to 20 years.

[George Camel]

That sucks. Can we agree 15 to.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wait a second.

[George Camel]

She's saying if she makes minimum payments on all the debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, minimum payments. Okay, okay, okay.

[George Camel]

But it's now, now with Jessica's current plan, it's probably more like four or five years.

[Caller]

I think so.

[George Camel]

And the Jaden George plan is like, how do we do this in two years? Maybe two and a half. And that means there's a gap. All right. Instead of throwing a thousand of the debt, we got to throw 2,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And here's what we're going to cut. And that's where the budget is going to be your best friend and show you the reality of where you're spending and where what can go.

[Jade Warshaw]

And here's a couple of freebies. I mean, are you guys getting a tax return every year? It's only like 2, 300 bucks to 300 bucks. Okay. I mean, you can look at that and see if you can get it down. Probably not. That's pretty close. What about investing? Are you doing any investing?

[Caller]

I only do the match my company does into my 401k.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. How much is that every month?

[Caller]

It's 4%. But I just started a new employer, so it hasn't even begun yet, because I have to be there for three months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, perfect.

[George Camel]

So let's just not start that, because that's going to free up hundreds of dollars that could be going toward debt. And I promise you, we'll get back to investing with a vengeance later on. But what happens for most people, Jessica, is they go, well, I want the match. And therefore, I'm willing to stay into debt longer. And I'm kind of comfortable here. And then they do 3 or 4% for 10 to 15 years.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[George Camel]

I'd rather see you do 15% two years from now.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. Next category. Because I'm just trying to help you find money. I want this to happen fast. What do you spend every month on going out to eat?

[Caller]

We have a budget of $50.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good. What about groceries? It's just the two of you?

[Caller]

It is. My husband, he's like a gym guy. So our budget is about 800.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that's not bad.

[George Camel]

You gotta get that protein in.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you might be able to do it a little less, but that's not bad. $800 for two.

[George Camel]

Folks get that like the boneless chicken thighs from Aldi. You stock up on those.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's plenty of protein about a chicken thigh, George.

[George Camel]

Well, yeah, Jay's not. She's not dabbling in that world. I'm just. I'm a big gym rat myself, Jade, if you can't tell, I could tell.

[Jade Warshaw]

By your bulging biceps.

[George Camel]

But I do watch a lot of videos about protein for some reason. I don't know. I'm very intrigued by the lifestyle, Jessica.

[Jade Warshaw]

But the point here, Jessica, is we're going through the budget with a fine tooth comb. And this is, like I said, for anybody listening, withholding is a great place to start investing. Look at that. Food, budget, cars. A lot of times, people's opportunity is sitting in their driveway. So tell us about your vehicles.

[Caller]

My husband's is a 2012. Completely paid off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then mine was gifted to me by my father, so I actually don't pay for it.

[George Camel]

Okay, so that's paid off.

[Caller]

Yes. A 2018 Toyota.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good.

[George Camel]

Another thing that's really people don't think about is insurance across the board. Reshopping insurance. If you go to ramseysolutions.com checkup, we have a great coverage checkup. It'll take you just a few minutes to do the quiz. And I helped a friend here actually reach out to Xander. They reshopped their insurance and they had better coverage while saving 80 bucks a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Nice.

[George Camel]

80 bucks back in the budget. So just doing something like that, just go with homeowners, auto across the board could save you 100 bucks, 200 bucks a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And then there's the utility type stuff. You can go in, call your cell phone provider and say, hey, are you offering any deals if you still have cable and baby step two. Yeah.

[George Camel]

What are you guys paying for your cell phone bill?

[Caller]

Well, I'm sorry, can you repeat that?

[George Camel]

What are you paying for your cell phone bill?

[Caller]

So right now ours is separate because I do own my phone and that should be knocked out by the end of the year. But mine is $87 a month and his is 60. But we plan on going to Mint Mobile where it's like 30 bucks a month.

[George Camel]

I was going to say, Tello has been a great sponsor of the YouTube channel. And they're 25 bucks a month for unlimited. You can't beat it, which is incredible. So that's a big savings. Some people are just paying like 120 bucks a month for their phone plan, not even including the phone. So just some ideas, Jessica. Along with every dollar, I'm going to send you my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I want you to specifically read the Margin is breathing room chapter in there. I lay out a bunch of the ideas that Jade and I threw out and many more just to get you going because we're pumped for you guys to become debt free. Do you feel like it's closer just on this call?

[Caller]

Yes. I mean, we also made progress. We started with about $16,000 in credit card debt and we're down to maybe 2,3000. I think it's 2400. So thank you guys so much. This was really helpful.

[George Camel]

Love to hear that. And you're right down the road in Nashville, so come see us for your debt free scream. Looking forward to meeting you guys and celebrating in person. Hang on the line. We're going to send you every dollar premium and my book, Breaking Free from Broke. Hope those resources help you along the way. More of your calls coming up. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw. If you're enjoying the show today or any other day for that matter, do us a quick favor. The show is free. What I'm asking you to do is free. Just hit the subscribe button, hit the follow button. Leave us a kind review, share it with a friend. Maybe it's a clip or a highlight from the show, a full episode. Tell them, hey, you gotta check out this podcast. All of that helps us get higher up on the algorithms. And it's not for our own egos. It's so that we can reach more people who may not know that this show even exists. And we're trying to displace all the filth and nonsense out there in this toxic money culture. And you guys sharing, you're the best marketing plan we have. So thank you for doing all of those things. Danielle is up next in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Danielle?

[Caller]

Hi, good afternoon. How are you doing?

[George Camel]

We're doing great. How can we help?

[Caller]

Awesome. Awesome. So I'm in a little dilemma that I've almost been dealing with for almost a year with my vehicle.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

After attempting to make a repair, I started having the same issues. Now I need a new engine. I still owe about $65,000 on this vehicle that I've only had for a year and a half.

[George Camel]

$65,000?

[Jade Warshaw]

What kind of vehicle is it?

[Caller]

It's $65,000 and it's an Audi Q8 2019. I did buy it used, so it was a bad decision. I know now, but I do not know what to do. On top of that, I do have student loaned up about $32,000 and about $2,000 in credit card debt. So I'm looking at around $100,000 that I make up. So my question is, I don't know what to do with this vehicle. The warranty company only wants to cover about $7,000 for a total repair that cost 20,000. So I would have to come out of pocket. I don't know if I should get rid of this vehicle. I don't know how much they would give me for the vehicle. The dealership? Well, they haven't given me that answer.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yet, but I wouldn't give it to the dealership. What's it worth if you don't repair it? What's it worth if you were to.

[Caller]

Sell it one now? It doesn't have an engine. Right. I would have to get a new engine. So I'm thinking around $30,000. I honestly don't know.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's going to cost 7,000 out of your pocket. You said to get it fixed.

[Caller]

No, the warranty company is willing to give me 7,000.

[George Camel]

Why are they only willing to cover a third of it?

[Caller]

I have no idea.

[George Camel]

Either they cover it or they don't. I'm confused why they go, well, it's kind of our fault, so guess we'll cover seven grand.

[Caller]

They Audi, made a repair, two weeks later, I get my car. Well, I Get my car back after a few months. And then two weeks later, after I gave my vehicle back, I had the same issues, but now my engine went out.

[George Camel]

I would fight this to where they cover the full 20k. That's. Personally what I would do is I probably would not sleep and I would just badger them and wear them down until they go, all right, she's a squeaky wheel. Let's just cover this repair.

[Caller]

Honestly, we've been doing like a dwarf company since November.

[George Camel]

Speak directly in your phone, Danielle. We're having a hard time hearing you.

[Caller]

Sorry. Okay, so they pretty much told me that I've been dealing with this since November of 2023. So as you can see, we're.

[George Camel]

What are you driving now?

[Caller]

Well, Audi gave me a loaner vehicle so that you still have been driving. Yes, I still have the loaner vehicle.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you have any money saved?

[Caller]

I do not have any money saved.

[George Camel]

Are you single?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

What do you make a year?

[Caller]

65K.

[Jade Warshaw]

Girlfriend. Girlfriend? Girlfriend.

[George Camel]

Goodness. What were you thinking buying us. How much did this car cost you? 70 grand?

[Caller]

Yeah, around 75 grand.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, do you?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

What's the payment on this amount?

[Caller]

I know the payment is high.

[Jade Warshaw]

What is it?

[Caller]

So I'm currently. It's about sixteen hundred dollars a month, girlfriend.

[George Camel]

Sixteen hundred?

[Caller]

I'm paying a. Yes.

[George Camel]

What's the interest rate?

[Caller]

Twelve percent.

[George Camel]

Jade's stretching. No, she might need to take a walk.

[Jade Warshaw]

I need to take a walk.

[Caller]

I totally. I totally got screwed.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, you didn't get screwed. You chose this. Let's be honest. You chose it because here's. I just want you to know I. What? I want to. I need to be able to sleep tonight. And so I need to understand that had you not had any engine problems. Let's just pretend this last year was gravy and you had no engine problems. You're just paying $1600 a month on a 75, 000 vehicle when you make 65, 000?

[George Camel]

I was hoping you were going to say, yeah, I make 200, 000 and I go, okay, this tracks.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you know it wasn't good like the first two months, were you like, dang.

[Caller]

Honestly, at first I was renting out that meaningful. So I didn't have those payments.

[George Camel]

You're renting it out like on Turo or something?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Camel]

So you fell for the scheme that I'm going to make money off this and they'll pay the payment for me?

[Caller]

Pretty much. And then my other vehicle that I had, it ended up getting stolen from Me. So I ended up using the Audi.

[George Camel]

And then someone stole your vehicle?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

And they never found it.

[Caller]

They never found it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now, here's what I did.

[George Camel]

Insurance cover it?

[Caller]

Yes, I got insurance and Gap. So they did cover it.

[George Camel]

And what'd you do with the insurance money?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Caller]

They didn't give me anything because I had stowed on that vehicle.

[George Camel]

Oh, my. It's not your first rodeo making bad decisions.

[Caller]

Yeah, I know. So this vehicle. I. I don't. I don't know what to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

So tell me again. You said it before, but I was writing down. So warranty so far is only going to pay 7k. What are you on the hook for?

[Caller]

I would have to pay the difference. They said the total cost would be about 20k just to get a new engine.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you're on for 13.

[George Camel]

Let's play out both scenarios. Let's say you sold it as is and you get 30k. That's what you told us. That means you're in the whole 35k, where you need to go out and find $35,000. Whether it's your own money or getting a loan, you need to go into debt another 35k. The other option is you're in debt 13 extra thousand to cover this engine repair because the warranty company's gonna cover seven, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[George Camel]

So on paper, option B is a better option. They're both terrible, but that's a better option right now is then you get the engine repaired and then you're able to at least sell it. So that's what I would do if I was in your shoes. Whatever you need to do to get this engine repaired, do that and then sell the vehicle immediately, but not to.

[Jade Warshaw]

The dealer, not to the.

[George Camel]

They're going to screw you on this deal because they already did. So you'd have to sell a private party to get the most value out of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I want you to talk to. I want you to get with somebody on this because cars, I know you've been trying to make it your thing, but I don't think it's your thing. And so find the wisest person that you know. I don't know if that's dad or big brother or a cousin or your best friend's brother, whoever it is, get with that person when it's time to sell this vehicle and when it's time to get this vehicle fixed because I don't want them taking you for a ride. Figuratively. When it comes to the price anymore on this, I just feel like you've Been screwed every way which way possible. And I don't want that to continue for you on the. On the fixing or the sale of this vehicle and from here on out. George, tell her the rule on buying these cars from here on out.

[George Camel]

I think you should buy the cheapest car possible, Danielle, at this point. But the parameter, Ramsey, is you pay cash. It's a used car, unless you're a millionaire, probably four plus years old. And the value of the vehicle is no more than half of your annual income. The value of all things with wheels and motors. So for you, if that's one vehicle, which. Do you have multiple toys or vehicles?

[Caller]

No, this is my only.

[George Camel]

This is it.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is the only one.

[George Camel]

Okay. And so right now, that would mean with your $65,000 income, you would buy no more than about a $30,000 car.

[Jade Warshaw]

When the time comes, in cash.

[George Camel]

I still think that's. You don't need to worry about that until you're out of debt completely. You get the student loans knocked out, the credit card's knocked out, you have an emergency fund. Let's get the income up, then let's save up and pay cash. So this could be years down the road, but for now, we need to figure out a way to get that 13 grand that might be. You go to a credit union if you have. Your credit's not shot already, and you go, hey, I need 13 grand to cover the difference to get this engine fixed to. Then do you have the car loan through someone?

[Caller]

It's through Wells Fargo.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

You might want to go to them and say, listen, you got bad collateral on this thing because it's only worth 30 right now. I owe you 65. I want to get this loan paid off. It's impossible right now unless you guys loan me this 13k on a personal loan to get this engine replaced.

[Caller]

My credit's good. I don't have an issue with that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, then let's do it.

[Caller]

I made a bad decision.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So that's. That's what I would do, Danielle. And it's going to hurt. And God bless the USA when we can be $100,000 in consumer debt, but we have great credit, by gosh, look at that, Jade. I got an 850, but I don't have 800 bucks in the bank account, and I'm $100,000 in debt. That is the American way.

[Jade Warshaw]

I can't even respond. I'm shooketh.

[George Camel]

She hath been shooketh. What a way to end this hour of the Ramsey Show. Thank you to my Co host Jade Warshaw. All the folks in the both in the booth keeping the show flow, including Kelly Daniel filling in on the producing, who's done a fantastic job, better than James, I might add. We'll be back with you before you know it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Normal is broke. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life and your money. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. To get involved in the call scene today, you can call 888-255-225 to get your name on the line. I'm here hosting. My name is Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Camel. George, are you ready? Ready to get it on?

[George Camel]

I've never been more ready.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, let's do it. We've got Elaine from Indiana on the line. What's up, Elaine?

[Caller]

Yes, Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I am dealing with a little bit of financial infidelity from my husband. And I'm just kind of wondering, you know, how we can move past that. The original incident. Well, I mean, it's happened several times. But the kind of straw that broke the back was about a year ago, I learned that he had borrowed about $14,000 from his employer. I guess they offered to pay off a debt that was trying to garnish his wages. And I found out it was from. He had started a business several years ago. And so we're working on paying off a lot of the consumer debt that was kind of left over from that.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so did you know about that debt before he got the loan to pay it off?

[Caller]

I did. And we did get a, you know, a notice about the day, about the lawsuit. It was a court date. He said he went to the court date, explained to them that the business had been closed, and they kind of just said they were washing their hands of it. And I didn't hear anything else about it.

[Jade Warshaw]

So he made up that entire lie that they.

[Caller]

I think he went. I don't know that it was actually, you know, wiped clean. I don't think you told me the full extent of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, clearly it wasn't because then he turned around and borrowed it from his employer.

[Caller]

Right. Well, somebody showed up at his work, a deputy or something, maybe. And with that order to garnish his wages, instead of doing the garnishment, his employer paid it off and they took a lump sum out of each one of his checks. And I didn't found out until about nine months after his checks had been.

[George Camel]

So essentially, he Tried to avoid wage garnishment by having his employer do it for him.

[Caller]

Exactly. Until that was about a year ago. I found out that. And I actually, you know, we have kids, and I. I was down at that point. He's made a lot of stupid financial decisions in the past, and.

[Jade Warshaw]

But before you go, before you keep going forward, I want to keep pulling that first one. So he. They were garnishing the wages out of his checks. 14,000. How much? Because how did you not. How did you not see that?

[Caller]

When he got his own bank account and separated all of our finances.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so finance is totally separate.

[George Camel]

Okay, so he. He made a lot of moves to hide this from you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Like open another bank, then move the direct deposit to that new bank without your knowledge. And then have you guys had separate finances in the past?

[Caller]

No, they were together up until about two. Two or three years ago. And ever since then it's been.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, so you said. This is not the first thing. Give us another example of something, because this one's pretty extreme.

[Caller]

Well, when he had his business open, I saw a bill in the mail for, you know, one of his, I guess, suppliers or somebody, and it was a lot more than, you know, I had anticipated. I'm going to ask him about it. And he was like, no, it's wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong. It would say he'd take care of it. And then finally when I call, they're like, no, like, we've been trying to get hold of you. This amount is correct. This equipment was never returned. Your Bill's, you know, $15,000 as opposed.

[Jade Warshaw]

To what you thought would have been 15,000?

[Caller]

Maybe a couple thousand, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so these are big numbers.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Have you asked him directly why are you lying about all this? What's behind it?

[Caller]

He says that he knows that it stresses me out, and so that he's just trying to take care of it himself without me having to know about it.

[George Camel]

So take care of it means more lies, more hiding place.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Camel]

And you've made it clear that's not how you're going to rebuild trust in this marriage.

[Caller]

Right? Yes.

[George Camel]

Has he fully owned up to all this? Where is he at today?

[Caller]

Well, that was a year ago, you know, when I said that I was done, and I was tired of him lying and hiding things from me, and I actually moved in with the kids with some family, and we, you know, he cried and he'll never do it again. And so we decided to work on things. So we're living with family, and collectively, you Know, we have probably about $90,000 of debt from this previous, you know, company that he had started. It didn't work out, so we said, we'll tackle it together. Well, a few weeks ago, I found out that somebody else had tried to, you know, sue him or whatever it was, and he got another loan from this company. This one was only $3,000. Yep. And that for the past three months, he's been paying that off, and it's paid off now. And we were able to pay off the $14,000 one, you know, once I found out about it, and I said, let's put everything towards it. And so we did that. So I thought everything was good after that. And then.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you guys, you never. You never really sat down and. And counseled your way through this. It was kind of just like, let's try it again. Let's try it again. Let's try it again.

[Caller]

And I'm not really defensive.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, here's the thing. You're telling us this. I 100 believe what you're saying. You said he. You know, you left him and he cried and all this stuff. I don't know what the. What the word is for that, but there's a word for the fact that he's making a mistake, but he's putting it on you by saying, I don't want you to be stressed. I don't want you to be the one that's upset. This is too much for you. Like, there's a word for that. I don't know what it is, but I know I don't like it. And there's just part of this where. Yeah, you've outlined many instances, and yet he continues to do the same kind of crazy, erratic behavior with his debt and with his money. Yeah, I would. I would sit down with a counselor, and in the meantime, yeah, I would keep the money separate. And I wouldn't do much more on this until you can sit down with somebody and say, here's what's going on. I don't know why my husband is continuing to do this behavior. Maybe I. Maybe I do have a hand in it. I'm willing to own if I do. Right. And you guys both sit down, and until you've given this a fair shake with the help of a professional, you know, that's what I really want for both of you, because something is. And I'm not apologizing or giving merit to what he's doing, but something's causing him to do this. Whether it's some sort of scarcity, mind the way he grew up, some. Some piece of him is feeling like he's got to control this and hide it from you. I don't know why, and I'm not saying that it's right, but I hope you guys can get to the bottom of it. And if it were me, in the meantime. Yeah. I would set some really clear boundaries, George. I'd be like, listen, you have disrespected me and our family and our money, and you've put us in an unsafe position. And because of that, I can't be. I can't be linked with money because I got to keep our family safe. So my question for you, Elaine, is, do you earn any money?

[Caller]

I do. And, you know, combined, we do make a decent. I mean, we bring in about 135,000 a year. About 45 of that is from myself.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you're bringing in 45. So what I would say is this. I'd say what would make me feel safe while we're in counseling is for us to put our money into this account. And I will give you full transparency into what I'm doing with the money. But you. You're taking our money and you're putting it on debt and you're making payments, and you're putting us in an unsafe space. Will you go to counseling with me? And if he says no? He won't. And no, he won't combine the money then. Now, that's your. That's your chance for you to take that to counseling and figure out what you need to do next. Because you can't control him.

[George Camel]

Yeah. You need consistent honesty from him over time and proof through actions. Those are the two things that will rebuild trust. And if he's unwilling to do that, that is him opting out of this relationship. So you need. You guys need to go through counseling and start to set those guard rails and boundaries and work towards healing. Hey, guys. George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft, protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you you need at the best price. Go to ramseysolutions.com insurance ramseysolutions.com insurance.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're listening to the Ramsey show. If you want to get involved, you can call in. It's a live show. That number is 888-825-5225. Christian, pickup and screen your call. Remember, this is a show about your life and your money. We're helping people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. That's what we're all about here. So let's go to the phone lines. We've got Olivia in Ronok, Virginia. What's going on? Olivia?

[Caller]

Hi. Yeah, so I called in just basically because I feel like I'm experiencing a lot of disagreement in my marriage as far as finances go.

[George Camel]

Tell us what happened.

[Caller]

Well, we're both on the same page that we want to get out of debt. Like, we both agree that we want to get out of debt. We want to have more money in our bank account and more security. I just, I feel like I'm the one sort of leading with that like gazelle intensity. And right now I feel like one of our roadblocks. In front of us is my husband's car. We both have a car. I have a more reliable American made car that it's up there in the miles, but it's one of those ones that's meant to last. And then he has a 20 year old European car and it's something that he got earlier this year after he wrecked his reliable car during a snowstorm. He paid in cash, which is great. We don't owe anything on our vehicles. But ever since he got that car, which I never, I never wanted him to buy it and I expressed that to him, but just let him do it because he was adamant and it was what he wanted and he was just.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much did he spend?

[Caller]

It was a $3,000 car. And I would say considering how much we've spent, which I don't know exactly, he hasn't told me. I can't access his receipts. He told me he hasn't even been putting the receipts together with the rest of the cars.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what does that mean you can't access? Do you guys not share a bank account? So you can't.

[Caller]

No, we do, we do. But like, like I don't have a place where all of this stuff is just compiled, like all of the receipts on what he spent on car parts. He's very handy and he does a lot of the repairs himself, but he's probably done at least five or six repairs since he bought the car.

[George Camel]

Are these for fun repairs? Like, is he like souping it up or is he needing to keep this thing alive.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you're also. Then. Then something also tells me you guys aren't keeping a budget because you. If you were keeping a budget, you wouldn't need receipts. You would see the transactions coming through. Okay, he went to Advanced Auto Parts. He went to Pep Boys. He. You would see that come through. So is that right?

[Caller]

There's no budget as of right now? No. I have, like, downloaded Yalls app before and tried to, like, get that going, but our financial situation has not been great, and I.

[Jade Warshaw]

All the more reason to get into the budget. Okay, let's break this down.

[Caller]

So I agree.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're like, he's spending way too much money on this $3,000 car. He's probably already spent more than three on the $3,000 car, correct?

[Caller]

Maybe not. Maybe not quite. But he's in a position now where the car isn't working to where he's comfortable driving it even to work. And so we're down to being a one car family, and he works 40 minutes away.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And you want to sell this car?

[Caller]

I want to sell it. And we literally can't even afford. It's like 300 in parts that he needs right now, and we can't even afford to buy that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it sellable? If you sell it, what would you get? Or is it just scrap?

[Caller]

If we sold it right now, we would get pretty much nothing. But he. If he fixed it up, he might be able to get a similar price as to what he bought it for. I'm not 100%.

[George Camel]

You're saying right now he would get 500 bucks, but if I put 300 bucks in, I could get three grand.

[Jade Warshaw]

For it, and you wouldn't get three grand. You'd break even. You'd get the money back that you spent. So we barely.

[Caller]

We would. Technically, we wouldn't break even after everything he spent. But if you. I don't even know.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why don't you guys do a little math on this, Go back and do a little. Do a little detective work, see what's been spent on this car, and then you guys can make the best decision, figure out what needs to be done, add. Factor that in, and then figure this out. This is the smallest of the concerns in my mind.

[George Camel]

This car, this is not what's holding you guys back right now. It's just the ankle biter that's in front of your face. So what's the real thing holding you back? Is he not willing to make other sacrifices?

[Caller]

Yeah, so it. I would say stubbornness is what's really, truly holding us back? I tried to discuss this car with him yesterday and it just turned into an argument.

[George Camel]

Let's say we never talk about the car again. What else are we doing? Because just not dealing with the car is not the thing that's going to get us out of debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So what are the steps you're taking?

[Caller]

So I'm pretty much the only one doing anything to get out of debt. I have. I mean, I don't know.

He's.

He works.

[Jade Warshaw]

What are you doing? What are you doing to get out of debt? Let's talk about you.

[Caller]

Yeah, so I am working. I'm a full time mom. So I work on the weekends to clean for somebody and I've been setting aside that cash for a little while and I don't even have my thousand dollars yet because we keep running into things and I keep having to fork over my emergency fund because there's no money in our bank account right there.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's a couple of things that I hear that is really going to help. Number one, there's a lot of division here. There's. I'm doing this, he's not doing that. This is my emergency fund. I don't have access to the receipts. Like there's a lot of division that I hear that lets me know there's something, there's something missing here. So there's some marriage things going on where you guys are feeling separate from each other. You're not able to talk to him, he's not able to hear you and probably vice versa. So I would want to do some detective work there and maybe get into some counseling to figure out what's, what's the hold up there. Number two, I think the problem that you're running into financially with when you are setting aside money and it's getting eaten up, it's. You don't, you guys don't have a budget. So there's no way to know what's coming. There's no way to plan for it. So before you get off the line, George and I are going to get you hooked up with every dollar. Because, George, I think that's really the issue here, at least financially the issue.

[George Camel]

Well, tell us about your take home pay. What is the take home pay for the month with your cleaning on the weekends, him working full time, what comes in.

[Caller]

If I worked four weekends a month doing this one cleaning job that I'm doing, I would be bringing in. Let me just pull my calculator up really quick. I've never actually done this Math.

[George Camel]

This is exciting.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is great. This is part of it. For everybody listening, knowing these details, you.

[George Camel]

Got to know your numbers.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know your numbers, Then you know what you need to do in order to get where you want to get.

[Caller]

So in just four days out of the month, I would be bringing in $720.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, great.

[George Camel]

What does he bring home every month?

[Caller]

That number I don't even know. Okay. So, like, he has so many medical issues.

[George Camel]

Like his know, you see, you have access to the bank, Right. What does the bank statement say was his income?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. When you see his check roll through.

[George Camel]

Is it the same check every month?

[Caller]

No, the average, I would say that we get, so, like, weekly is between three and five hundred dollars a week.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so maybe 2,000.

[George Camel]

Like 2,000amonth. Why is he making so little?

[Caller]

So part of it was they cut his hours back at work because business was slow. And then they recently brought his hours back up. And when that happened, he also got basically what I would call a raise. They allowed him to start receiving commission because he's an incredible worker. He's a hard worker.

[George Camel]

What does he do for.

[Caller]

He's a chimney sweep. But then he threw out his back pretty much right when that happened. He has had back issues his whole life, and he probably needs surgery one day, but he's. He'll miss work because of stuff like that. Like, this isn't just the first time it's happened when he throws his back out. It happens, I would say, once or twice a year where he misses a few days of work because of it. And then there's, like, sickness and all those, like, normal life things that throw it. That things.

[George Camel]

I think he needs a new job.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Is it fair to say that he can't be a chimney sweep anymore? I mean, when you said once or twice a year for a couple of days, at first I was like, that's. I mean, you get a cold and you're out once or twice a year. Right. The people in the audience are like, yeah, Jade. So there's part of me that's like, how big of a deal is this? Like, we're. We're not losing weeks of work, you know, every couple of months. It doesn't sound like. It sounds like it's a day here, a day there. I'm. He needs to make more money. I'm with you on that. He needs to make more money. You need to make more money. You both need to earn more money. I agree with you there. I think here's. Can I just be honest with you. What I think, Olivia, I think you're frustrated and rightfully so. And sometimes when we get frustrated, it's easier to look at the other person and go, here's what they're not doing. But I think this is both of you. I think there's something that both of you, I think there's more that both of you can be doing to make this better. Even something as simple as knowing the numbers, right? And in these types of situations when you are married, here's the thing, you can't control what he does. You can control what you do. You can ask him and you can let your you know, let him know, here's what I'd like. But at the end of the day, Olivia can only control Olivia. So here's what you can do. You can get the every dollar budget. You can say, hey, let's do this together. And if he doesn't do it, you can still put the budget together. You can tell him, hey, for baby step one, I think we should save a thousand dollars. And if he doesn't want to do it, you still save a thousand dollars. Like Olivia can be on her game and lead by example until your husband starts to get on his game. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, Rachel Cruz here. Today only our Black Friday one day sale is here with huge savings. All of our kids products are up to 50% off. Plus our best selling hardcovers are only $11.

[Caller]

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[Jade Warshaw]

Perfect for a gift wrapping session or.

[Caller]

Your drive to a family Christmas party.

[Jade Warshaw]

This sale ends at midnight tonight, you guys, so don't wait.

[Caller]

Go to ramseysolutions.com store today.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 888-255-225. You call up and we'll try to get give you the right next step for your life and your money. Marcus has chosen to do so over in Denver. What's going on, Marcus?

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going, guys? Thanks for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Absolutely. What's going on?

[Caller]

Hey. So recently engaged, we are going through some premarital process and workbooks and some finance questions that I'm not sure entirely what to do. I know the rule is when you get married then you combine your finances. I currently have about $100,000 saved up for a down payment on a home. She has about 80,000. My fiance has about $80,000 in student loans and 10,000 on a car. So I know I could pay that off instantaneously when we get married and kind of push the house down the road. She's not necessarily totally on board with that. I'm just not sure what to do with that. When we say the ideas, why do.

[Jade Warshaw]

You think she's not on board with it? Is it guilt?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, it definitely is. You know, we've both worked very hard, and she knows how hard I've worked to get out of debt and save up for money. And it's kind of a little bit guilt ridden. You know, she. I'd give up all my. The cash, we say, for a down payment, just completely into her.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, there's a part of that that is very real. My husband and I faced that. You know, he felt bad that he had more student loans than I. But there's part of that that you kind of, if you put it in any other term, as far as cleaning up a mess ahead of time, any other personal mess, you can't make perfect before you get married. Do you know what I mean? You don't feel the obligation to fix it completely yourself before you come to them. Like, we're imperfect people and we make mistakes. And so I think when you frame it in that way of, why are you categorizing money in a completely different light than all of the other aspects of our marriage where we're basically taking each other as we are and we're working together to go forward? I think when you put it into that framework, it kind of changes the way you think of it. And you're like, oh, yeah, okay, that makes more sense. You're taking me with my mistakes, you're taking me with my flaws. And we're working together to improve ourselves.

[George Camel]

In our marriage and accepting, you know, that blessing of, wow, this person worked really hard to save this money, and they're willing to use that to give me a clean slate. I mean, not to get theological, but that's a beautiful picture of the gospel.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's beautiful.

[George Camel]

We came in with all the debt, and he's got an unlimited savings account. He's like, I got you. And it's like, I can't accept this. I need to work for it. Like, there's a piece of that that exists. And also it's a lot easier to go into 100 grand of debt versus saving up 100 grand.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[George Camel]

So there's also that piece that she's feeling of he works so hard for this. But the truth is, if you looked at a cons list of, okay, what, she's coming to this marriage with 100 grand. You look at the pros list her. You know what I mean? Like, that outweighs any level of debt. And you guys working together, this is gonna be like a blip in your lifetime where you look back and like, oh, remember, we cleaned up that debt real quick, and then we started building wealth together. And, yeah, it delayed our home buying by, you know, two years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Who cares?

[George Camel]

And big whoop. And so I. I think this is harder for her to grapple than you because it sounds like you are like, yeah, I'm willing to go ahead and pay off the debt, and we'll restart the down payment process.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then, you know, for her, I mean, and I hope she does listen to this call. The. The flip side of it, which is the pretty obvious, is it's way better to have someone who says, oh, yeah, it's just money. Like, I'm happy to pay this off and start. You know, my money's your money, and your debt's my debt, and I'm happy to be one with you on this. And, well, we're paying it off together with the money that we have once we get married. That's a lot better than having a jerk. That's like, no, you got to pay off your debt. I'm not marrying you until you bury that debt. You know what I'm saying? Like, that is terrible. And if you were like that, she wouldn't accept that either. So it's like, if you have to choose between A and B, I'm choosing A with flying colors.

[Caller]

All right, well, you know how those guys roll. We. We're very directing to the point. So I'll try to frame it a little bit more differently.

[George Camel]

Have her watch this call. Also, I'm wondering, what will your household income be once you guys get married?

[Caller]

Once we get married a year's time, I'll. I'll gross 220, and she'll be about 55 to 60.

[George Camel]

Ding, ding, ding, my friend. So think about this mathematically. If you want to help her out, just go to a piece of paper napkin, math, and go, all right, we're going to pay your debt down. Lasers with ten grand. We still need a little emergency fund maybe. Okay, we make 275 at that point. How quickly can we save up 100 grand? Probably eight or nine months.

[Caller]

Yeah, pretty quick.

[George Camel]

And so I think showing her how little of a problem this really is, it's not derailing your home ownership dreams for a decade.

[Jade Warshaw]

No.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You're just taking a step back to catapult forward.

[Caller]

Yeah. Okay, well, I'll try to frame it if length.

[George Camel]

Have you guys gone through Financial Peace University as part of your premarital?

[Caller]

We haven't. We're doing a couple workbooks. We haven't done FPU yet.

[George Camel]

If I gifted it to you guys, would you go through it?

[Caller]

I would pay for it because I appreciate your guys services.

[George Camel]

Oh, that's so kind. Well, I can't let you do that today, but, you know, you can do. You can pay it forward, you can get it for someone else, but I'm gonna gift that to you today, Marcus, because I'm a Marcus fan and I think Financial Peace University is a huge part of premarital counseling. It doesn't encompass everything. With premarital counseling, obviously there's a lot of other pieces, but as far as finances go, I cannot think of a better way to get on the same page, learn that language by going through all nine lessons together. Because me trying to convince someone else about the thing I'm excited about. I'm like, jade, you got.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know this guy Dave.

[George Camel]

He's like, sell the car. And you're like, what is. What happened?

[Jade Warshaw]

I know.

[George Camel]

And then you watch the lessons, you're like, I gotta sell the car. And it becomes your idea versus this thing they threw onto you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So that's a very different vibe. And that's why I encourage couples. Whether it's premarital, postmark, whatever. Go through Financial Peace University if you're trying to get someone on board. And it's. It's the most cost effective way to make your marriage better and build wealth together.

[Jade Warshaw]

I agree. I concur.

[George Camel]

We nailed it. All right, Alex is in Chicago up next. What's going on, Alex?

[Caller]

Hi, guys. Can you hear me?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, loud and clear.

[Caller]

Okay, so, yeah, my. My main question is I'm debating whether I can leave my job in December or if I should sign up for another, like, little group of second shifts for kind of getting a head start on my emergency fund.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So there's no debt. You're working on an emergency fund. Is that what I understand?

[Caller]

Okay, so starting in November, I started paying down about $82,000 of debt. I. It was. It was 72. By the time I started the Ramsey plan, I had a total of 82.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And now I have 19.4.

[Jade Warshaw]

Nice.

[Caller]

And at the end of the year, I should have about 5.5.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And if I quit my job in December, my debt payoff will be the same in February.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

I'm thinking about keeping it for like a head start on my emergency fund, but I'm also like completely exhausted and like, less.

[George Camel]

Are you saying just quitting your second job? Are you keeping your full time job?

[Caller]

Yeah. So right now I work about 52 hours a week. I work 40, and then I work like an extra four hours a week. And this is three times a month for my. So I work about 44 hours and then I work an extra eight.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it the work or the type of work? Is it the. Is it the fact that you have an extra job or is it the nature of the second job?

[Caller]

It's more the nature of the second job because I'm a therapist in an acute care setting and it's like a very physical job. And I'm like, what do you make from it? Retired.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you make from it?

[Caller]

Yeah. So my base pay and my primary job is 4.3 K. And I do. We. I work weekends on my primary job, So I have 5k with my weekend pay. And then with my second job, I do 5.6. And then I do work overtime at my primary job, 5600.

What?

[George Camel]

Your second job is bringing in more than your full time job?

[Caller]

No, I'm just explaining that I actually, like, that's my monthly income incrementally as I add on more hours.

[George Camel]

Oh, so you're making an extra 600 bucks from the side job.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got you.

[Caller]

It's about 250 net per shift. And I work about eight shifts every three months, so 12. And go ahead.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm just trying to understand. Just give us really clear what you bring in from the side job every month. Because what I'm getting at. What I'm getting at here is if you're telling me it's the nature of the job that's the problem, and it's giving you 1200 extra bucks a month or 600, whatever that is. I'm pretty sure you could probably.

[Caller]

750.

[Jade Warshaw]

Perfect. I think that you find another job and replace that income because a lot of times the burger burnout is not on the. The hours itself. It's the job that you're doing during those hours. It sounds like you've been going hard for a really long time and you just need a change of pace.

[George Camel]

Yeah. If you did something that was more enjoyable, even less, you'd be okay. But I wouldn't just slow down just yet. You're so close. Keep the gazelle intensity up until you're through baby step three. But I do think we need a shift in the meantime. Just shift the plan a little bit. This is the Ramsay Show.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start. Answer some questions, and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money. Starting today, go with ramseysolutions.com starting.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, 2nd Corinthians 12, 9. My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me in a left turn. J.K. rowling once said, anything's possible if you've got enough nerve. I like that level of persistence, George.

[Jade Warshaw]

You got some nerve.

[George Camel]

That's me getting discounts. That's my version of that. I've got enough nerve to ask for the discount.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, I've watched you in these breaks try to get these discounts on these Seinfeld tickets.

[George Camel]

That's right. If anyone's got the hookup, I refuse. Jade's like, george, just go. I mean, just pay the. Pay the stub. I'm like, I'm not gonna let the scalpers win. Not on my watch. I'm gonna get these tickets at face value if it's the last thing I do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Waving the white flag.

[George Camel]

That's my. That's my latest conundrum. If you're wondering what's happening in the world of George trying to get a deal. Yep. All right, that's fine. Let's go to Joan in Jacksonville, Florida. What's going on, Joan? Make us happy. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, hi. Thank you for taking my call. I have a situation where I have a couple of options, but I really don't know what to do. I'm 86 years old. I have only Social Security. I own my own home, own my car. But I have about almost $30,000 credit card debt.

[George Camel]

Oh, my goodness.

[Caller]

I know I have making minimum payments, but I've only left with maybe 100, $200 a month to eat, put gas in the car. I do have help from a daughter and an ex husband that feeds me, you know, as I need it. If I make a suggestion, but it's embarrassing. That I don't want to. I couldn't. I think about selling the car. It's 17 years old. I won't buy another one, but I'm pretty much going to be grounded.

[George Camel]

What's the car worth?

[Caller]

Well, it's a Crown Victoria.

[George Camel]

I don't think that's going to make a dent in your credit card debt. I'd rather you keep the car to get around it.

[Caller]

Yeah, true. Or sell the house. That's what I want to know.

[George Camel]

Oh boy.

[Caller]

And, and get it, get an apartment.

[George Camel]

Well, the problem is right now you have a fixed expense with this paid for house.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

So if you sold it to pay off your credit card debt, that leaves you with an expense that's ongoing and increasing. And with your Social Security, I don't know that you're going to be able to afford the payment of the rent.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much do you get every month?

[Caller]

11, 198. Okay, almost a thousand.

[George Camel]

So about 1200 bucks a month, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And what are your monthly expenses? Right now you're saying you have 100 bucks left over. So you need about 1100 bucks to live? Thousand.

[Caller]

No, no.

The reason I'm in credit card debt is I always need about $200 more until I use a credit card and then I'll start paying the minimum payments and then the hitting on them and they build, build, build. Now the last two or three months I had like almost $3,000 in car repair and some other $700 to the dentist. Yeah, and so you just have no cushion.

[Jade Warshaw]

You have no cushion to pay for anything that comes up beyond your 1100 bucks a month. Right.

[Caller]

And unless I beg it from either.

A daughter or an ex.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm sorry.

[George Camel]

Goodness, I'm so sorry, John. This is not a fun place to be. What is your house worth?

[Caller]

My health?

[George Camel]

Your house, what's it worth?

[Caller]

Well, what do you mean by that?

[George Camel]

If you sold it today, what could you get for it?

[Caller]

Oh, my house. Oh, the house is probably worth 195 to maybe 250. Okay, that's a big but on, on either side. The houses have built around me and they're worth 600 and 500,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why is yours so low? No updates?

[George Camel]

It in rough shape?

[Caller]

No, my.

Mine is just old. When I came here 21 years ago.

[George Camel]

Oh, they built a bunch of new house around you?

[Caller]

Yeah, they vote to everybody around me and I don't have an HOA and everybody else.

[George Camel]

Are you at the point where you can move in with your daughter?

[Caller]

Well, I could, but I'M not too sure about that. You know, personalities. I mean, it's kind of. It would be. I have some health problems, but they're under control.

[George Camel]

Well, the problem is, let's say if I snap my fingers and got you out of credit card debt, you're going to be back in $30,000 of credit card debt because you're using the credit cards to float your life and expenses.

[Caller]

Well, I promised her that from now on I would ask her after if I had to charge something.

[George Camel]

But you're still behind 200 bucks a month, which you're using credit cards for. You told us.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you've got your.

[George Camel]

That's not going to change anytime soon.

[Jade Warshaw]

You've got your daughter and do you have other kids or is it just her?

[Caller]

Yes, but that wouldn't be possible.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so your daughter has said, mom, let me know before you charge this credit card. Tell me. I'm going to try to help you out basically. Right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

So like you said, it's embarrassing and it's tough, but your options are you either reach out to your daughter and you say, hey, you told me that this lifeline is here. And the, the truth is I need 200 every month in order to be able to live and not spend any more on this credit card. That 200 will help me make my minimum payments and not go over. If you said that to her, is she on board? And to say, okay, I'm going to help you in that way. And. And then. Because the other option is we might have to look at this house, which doesn't really make sense because of the cost of living today, like there's not really an option.

[Caller]

I know. You know, that's what. Yeah, that's one thing that's made it gone up more.

[George Camel]

Well, okay, your expenses are 1,400 bucks and you're bringing in 1200. That's the truth at the end of the day. Right. Because you're going 200 bucks into debt on the credit cards.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

So we need to find a way to either lower our expenses somehow or increase our income. I don't know. We're going to find a way to increase income.

[Caller]

I wrote down every penny I spent this past month.

[George Camel]

And could you downgrade in house, you know, if you sold it for 250, could you go buy a place for 200?

[Caller]

I'm not sure. In Florida right now. I mean, or even in an apartment. No, it's a house.

[George Camel]

I'm saying could you downgrade to an apartment?

[Caller]

Oh, well, I could go. Yeah, I Mean, I could, but I'm 86 years old. I mean.

[George Camel]

I know, but we also didn't set ourselves up for a bright future in retirement.

[Caller]

No.

[George Camel]

So this is part of it is we got to deal with the ramifications.

[Caller]

I was a single mother since I was 19 years old with no. No child support. And I worked until I was almost 80.

[George Camel]

What were you doing for work?

[Caller]

I was.

Maybe I better not say. I worked in a pharmacy technician.

[George Camel]

Okay. Is there something you could do to make a little bit of extra money right now? Are you able to get around and do that?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, I get around. I mean, I. I think we might.

[George Camel]

Need to find a little part time job to. To clean up this debt and increase our income. If you're able bodied, it's not fun, but this might be your only option other than selling the house and downgrading to an apartment that you pay cash for, which allows you to clean up the credit card debt, lowering your monthly expenses.

[Caller]

Right? Well, I have leukemia. I've had it for 21 years. I don't really have. I really don't have a high energy level. And I have a dog. And the dog. I was going to tell you the expenses the dog cost. The dog was the biggest.

Expensive, I bet.

[George Camel]

I know. I got two little French bulldogs and they're the biggest line item in my budget right now, so. Joan, I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

It was 108 or $181 for the dog every month. No, just this month.

[George Camel]

Okay, Just this month. Oh, Joan, I'm so sorry. You have been through it. I would, I would definitely look at downgrading and house and going to an apartment. You pay cash for getting rid of the credit card debt. If you need to re home the dog, I'd rather you eat before the dog. So. That's the hard truth. I hope it helps and I hope your. Your daughter or ex husband can help. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Thank you to Jade Warshaw on the folks in the booth and you. America will be back before you know it.