Panic Never Leads to Peace

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Panic Never Leads to Peace" (August 6, 2025)

Hosted by Dave Ramsey and the Ramsey Network team, this episode delves into financial dilemmas, budgeting strategies, and personal finance management. Listeners call in with real-life scenarios seeking advice, while the hosts provide actionable solutions grounded in Ramsey's renowned financial principles.

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1. Ashley’s Crisis: Robbery and Should They Sell Their House?

[00:58]

Caller: Ashley from Birmingham
Issue: After a backyard robbery where her husband’s lawn equipment was stolen, Ashley contemplates selling their recently purchased home.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey emphasizes evaluating whether the incident indicates a systemic neighborhood issue or a one-off event.

  Dave Ramsey [01:44]: "But you're just telling me no one else in the area had a problem. Somebody stole your lawnmower."

• Dr. John Deloney suggests processing emotions and gathering more details before making drastic decisions.

  Dr. John Deloney [05:01]: "Are there leads? I just don't feel like we got the whole story."

Conclusion: Dave advises against selling based on a single theft, urging Ashley to assess the broader context and maintain insurance coverage while enhancing home security.

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2. Rachel’s Budgeting Struggles: Managing Kids’ Expenses

[11:13]

Caller: Rachel Cruz
Issue: As a single mother with an income of approximately $72,000 annually, Rachel struggles to balance debt repayment, savings, and unexpected expenses from her children.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey encourages integrating children's expenses into the monthly budget rather than segregating them into sinking funds.

  Dave Ramsey [12:23]: "Because you didn't tell me about it."

• Ken Coleman and Dr. John Deloney support Rachel’s need to adjust her budget to reflect her family’s reality and incorporate predictable expenses.

Conclusion: Rachel is advised to reassess her budget, allocate adequate funds for her children's needs, and ensure her budgeting system mirrors her actual financial situation to reduce stress.

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3. Navigating Debt and Savings: Rachel’s Second Call

[17:05]

Caller: Rachel Cruz
Issue: With $15,000 in credit card debt, $11,000 on her car, $30,000 in student loans, and a mortgage of $170,000, Rachel seeks guidance on prioritizing debt repayment and saving for retirement.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey introduces the “Baby Steps” framework, emphasizing debt elimination as the pathway to wealth.

  Dave Ramsey [18:11]: "The fastest way to become wealthy is to quit giving your money to everyone else in the form of debt."

• Rachel’s situation showcases a standard debt snowball approach, targeting the smallest debts first while maintaining minimum payments on larger ones.

Conclusion: By following Ramsey’s Baby Steps—starting with emergency savings, aggressively paying off debts, and then building a robust financial foundation—Rachel can achieve financial stability and work towards a significant net worth.

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4. Protecting Personal Privacy Online

[20:53]

Hosts: Dr. John Deloney & George Camel
Issue: Rising concerns over personal data exposure leading to scams and harassment.

Discussion Highlights:

• George Camel introduces Delete Me, a service that removes personal information from data broker sites.

  George Camel [21:25]: "Not just once, but all year long."

• Dave Ramsey highlights the importance of digital hygiene in safeguarding personal information.

Conclusion: Listeners are encouraged to use services like Delete Me to protect their online privacy and prevent misuse of their personal data.

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5. Real Estate Realities: Market Insights

[22:42]

Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Deloney
Topic: Current state of the U.S. real estate market and whether it’s an opportune time to buy or sell.

Key Points:

• Dave Ramsey provides market statistics:

  • Homes on the market: 1,082,520 (highest since 2019).
  • Median home price: $441,000 with minimal monthly increases.
  • Interest rates: 5.95% for a 15-year fixed rate.

• Conclusion: With inventory high but demand still outpacing supply, now is a favorable time to buy or sell without the fear of significant price drops. Ramsey advises staying debt-free and maintaining an emergency fund to capitalize on real estate opportunities.

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6. Balancing Work and Family: Rachel’s Third Call

[24:33]

Caller: Rachel Cruz
Issue: Newly married with a baby, Rachel and her husband are deciding whether she should return to work or stay home, balancing financial stability with personal considerations.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dr. John Deloney encourages Rachel to prioritize her desires and evaluate the impact of AI on their tech jobs, suggesting adaptability and continuous skill development.

  Dr. John Deloney [25:48]: "The fastest way to become wealthy is to quit giving your money to everyone else in the form of debt."

• Dave Ramsey reinforces the importance of fact-based decisions over emotional reactions, advocating for staying home if it aligns with their values and financial status.

  Dave Ramsey [30:09]: "So either way, you're going to either stay up with the market...or you're going to retool when you get ready to head back into the market."

Conclusion: Rachel is advised to align financial decisions with personal values, stay adaptable in the tech industry, and maintain open communication with her husband to navigate career and family dynamics effectively.

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7. Antonio’s Entrepreneurial Leap: Transitioning to Full-Time Power Washing

[34:05]

Caller: Antonio from Columbus, Ohio
Issue: Antonio plans to transition his part-time power washing business to full-time next summer while currently remaining in debt through his regular job.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey outlines a step-by-step plan:

  • Booking Clients: Intensive marketing before fully transitioning.

    Dave Ramsey [58:14]: "I want you to start calling on people and setting up jobs...book up the first month of work solid."

  • Contingency Plan: If bookings are insufficient, revert to his current job to avoid financial strain.

• Dr. John Deloney emphasizes the importance of dedication and assessing the profitability of the new venture.

  Dr. John Deloney [59:59]: "What's the difference in hourly pay if I'm pressure washing...?"

Conclusion: Antonio is encouraged to rigorously market his power washing services, ensure a steady client pipeline before fully committing, and maintain financial prudence to safeguard against potential business fluctuations.

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8. Kara’s 529 Plan Dilemma: Control and Family Conflict

[75:12]

Caller: Kara from Canada
Issue: Kara discovers her parents intend to repurpose leftover funds in her 529 plan for their retirement, despite her efforts to save for future education.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey corrects misconceptions about 529 plans, asserting they belong to the beneficiary:

  Dave Ramsey [77:10]: "A 529 is in your name, and they are the custodians until you're 21. So this is just your money, period."

• Dr. John Deloney supports Kara’s need to assert control over her finances and potentially distance herself from toxic family dynamics.

  Dr. John Deloney [82:18]: "It's going to eat you alive or it's going to make them upset. You got to do what's right."

Conclusion: Kara is advised to consult a SmartVestor Pro to secure control over her 529 funds and confront her parents about safeguarding her financial future. The hosts emphasize the importance of financial autonomy and the need to prioritize personal financial goals over familial pressures.

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9. Danielle’s Financial Beginning: New Graduate’s Budgeting

[75:12]

Caller: Danielle from South Carolina
Issue: As a recent college graduate, Danielle seeks guidance on budgeting and financial planning as she prepares for marriage.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey underscores the necessity of pre-marital financial alignment to prevent future conflicts.

  Dave Ramsey [83:26]: "Let's start talking that stuff through and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of communication on all that."

• Dr. John Deloney recommends Danielle engage in Financial Peace University and build financial habits alongside her social and spiritual lives.

Conclusion: Danielle is encouraged to establish a comprehensive budget using tools like EveryDollar, actively communicate financial expectations with her fiancé, and integrate Ramsey’s Baby Steps into her financial strategy to ensure a harmonious and financially secure marriage.

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10. Gary’s Real Estate Challenges: Selecting the Right Agent

[86:22]

Caller: Gary from Michigan
Issue: Struggling to sell his house in East Tennessee with minimal showings despite pricing it below the median and investing in professional photography.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey questions the effectiveness of Gary’s family-friend real estate agent, emphasizing the importance of hiring a high-performing, experienced agent.

  Dave Ramsey [35:26]: "I don't think she's doing it. And you’ve obviously said that and you've got that."

• Dr. John Deloney points out red flags in the agent’s responses, advocating for Gary to seek Ramsey trusted agents with proven track records.

Conclusion: Gary is advised to part ways with his current agent and engage a Ramsey trusted real estate professional who utilizes robust marketing strategies and possesses a high sales volume to ensure a successful and timely home sale.

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11. Ken’s Financial Journey: From Debt to Budgeting

[95:26]

Caller: Ken Coleman from Portland, Oregon
Issue: Transitioning from homelessness to a stable income, Ken now earns $4,000 monthly but struggles with impulse spending and managing medical debt.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey praises Ken’s progress and introduces budgeting as the solution to his financial challenges.

  Dave Ramsey [96:45]: "We just don’t know where their money went. They’re just as broke as you are."

• Dr. John Deloney recommends reducing gaming time and increasing productive activities like reading to foster financial growth.

Conclusion: Ken is guided to adopt Ramsey’s budgeting tools, prioritize debt repayment, and cultivate disciplined financial habits to maintain his newfound stability and work towards long-term financial freedom.

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12. George’s Business and Compensation Concerns

[105:04]

Caller: George from New Jersey
Issue: Working in a family-owned hotel business, George is underpaid and seeks clarity on potential inheritance and his future role in the business.

Discussion Highlights:

• Dave Ramsey advises George to exit the underpaying role to pursue higher income opportunities, emphasizing that staying could lead to prolonged financial stagnation.

  Dave Ramsey [117:26]: "I think you should leave."

• Dr. John Deloney echoes the sentiment, highlighting the lack of immediate inheritance and encouraging George to seek better financial prospects independently.

Conclusion: George is encouraged to seek employment that better compensates his skills and experience, ensuring financial growth and preventing dependence on uncertain inheritance timelines.

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13. Final Thoughts and Empowerment

[122:37]

Throughout the episode, the hosts consistently reinforce Ramsey’s foundational financial principles:

• Debt Elimination: Prioritizing the reduction of debts to free up income for savings and investments.
• Emergency Funds: Building a safety net to handle unforeseen expenses without derailing financial plans.
• Budgeting: Allocating every dollar to specific purposes to gain control over spending habits.
• Proactive Financial Management: Encouraging listeners to take charge of their finances through informed decision-making and disciplined execution.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [14:34]: "The budget has to reflect reality, not what you wish reality is."
• Dr. John Deloney [25:48]: "If your husband's wigged out by this, whether it's a one-off or not, you need to process this more."
• Dave Ramsey [77:17]: "It's morally wrong when your parents try to take your money intended for education."

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Conclusion

"Panic Never Leads to Peace" offers listeners a blend of empathetic support and practical financial advice. Whether dealing with personal financial setbacks, managing household budgets, or making significant investment decisions, the Ramsey Show provides clear, actionable steps to navigate financial challenges confidently. By emphasizing discipline, informed decision-making, and proactive planning, Dave Ramsey and his team empower individuals to achieve financial peace and stability.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Thank you for joining us. America.

[Ken Coleman]

America.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and host of the brand new hit on Ramsey networks called Front row seat. A long form interview show where he really gets into it with successful and famous people. And you will learn a lot from that process. Be sure to join him there. He's gonna help me out today. The phone number here is triple 882-55-5225. Ashley's in Birmingham. Hi Ashley, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

So I just had a question. If me and my husband should sell our house after a recent robbery.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Well, that's pretty emotionally damaging. You feel violated at a whole different level, don't you?

[Rachel Cruz]

We do. We do. Thankfully it wasn't the inside of their house. They didn't breach the inside, but they broke into our backyard and stole all of my husband's does lawn equipment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well that's a weird robber. What do I want? A lawnmower? Now I'm thinking, what is this, kids? Who steals a lawnmower?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, that's kind of my point. So I'm 25, my husband's 27. We've been married since April of this year. And I bought my house in February of 2024. So we haven't lived in it long. My husband just moved in after we got married. And now this incident has happened that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So is this, is this indicative of the neighborhood being trashy or is this just a one off weird thing?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't believe so. We live in Birmingham.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but there's trashy areas like there is in Birmingham. Like any area of the country, any city has them.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right? We, I mean, I don't believe so. It's definitely an up and coming area. All the houses range from probably 200,000 to $400,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is there a crime problem in your neighborhood?

[Rachel Cruz]

Not that I'm aware of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so this is a one off, weird thing, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

As far as I'm aware, yes. And we filed a police report and we asked the policeman the same thing and that's what he had said as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

So why would you sell? You wouldn't sell because of one single incident. That is not an indicator of what's really going on around there. It's a one off anomal. No, you don't sell baseball, right? If you tell me. Look, my neighbor's car got broke into that some bozo shot down the street the other night. At each other. Yeah. Move. Okay, but. But you're just telling me no one else in the area had a problem. Somebody stole your lawnmower.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right? Yeah, well, that. That's my point. My husband is, you know, a great godly man, and he wants to protect us, so he just feels. He feels violated. He feels like we're not safe anymore and he wants to sell. Even though I really haven't lived in the house long enough, I would like to.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not the point. How long you've lived in it doesn't matter. If you're unsafe, you leave. But you're not unsafe based on what you're telling me. So he's not being logical. He's being a drama queen about his lawnmower getting stolen.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's what you're telling me. You're telling me that I'm not. Am I missing what. I mean, look, okay, I got a. I live in a gated neighborhood, very expensive homes that run from one and a half to $10 million. Okay? Somebody broke into one of those houses and went to the safe and stole the guy's guns and jewelry and got into the safe. Obviously an inside job based on the fingerprints that are all over the thing, so to speak. I ain't moving. I'm not moving. Okay? Some. One of their. Somebody that was helping them at that house or something got into that house. We do not live in a crime infested neighborhood. My neighbor got broken into and I'm not moving. There's no crime problem, I promise you. In this neighborhood. Okay, that I'm talking about so not. I mean, you're telling me there's no crime problem. You had a one off, and it's a kind of unusual one off. You have to admit, if you're stealing lawnmowers, you're pretty low on the totem pole of thieves.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

It sounds almost like teenagers or something goofing off. You might find them in a ditch down the street.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm curious. I'm trying to. As Dave's talking, I'm just going, okay. I'm trying to put myself in your husband's shoes because you got to handle this delicately because you can't tell him what Dave said about him, you know, But I don't think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you can. You tell him. Dave said he's a drama queen.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, that you said it. She can't say that here's what have the police said on this deal. Are there leads? I just don't feel like we got the whole story. Are we missing any details?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, not that I'm aware of. The houses across the street from the gas station or a gas station. And that has made my husband nervous that I bought it. But we've never had any issues beyond this. It's on a main road, so a lot of people can.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much. How much financial loss in all that lawn equipment? Is it just one lawnmower or is it more?

[Dave Ramsey]

You got insurance on it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. I'm just asking some questions. Listen, I think I have a different take than Dave on this one. I think if your husband's wigged out by this, whether it's a one off or not, I think you guys have got to process this a little bit more. And if it were me, I would want to know a whole lot more about suspects. I think this area is probably a little bit more sketchy than you're leading on. That's what I think. I could be wrong. I don't think this is a super nice area of Birmingham. If they targeted you once, they may target other places. I just would give it a little bit more conversation with your husband. I also get your point that I don't want to necessarily move this house right away. So I'm with Dave. I wouldn't just up and throw a sign in the yard, but I would talk about it a little bit more and figure out what's going on. I just don't feel like we're getting everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you're in an emotional situation, facts are your friends. Yeah. So I'll go with you on that, Ken. You need to gather more facts. Yeah, but I just. Sensing an emotional reaction to a situation that's not. The emotions don't match the facts that I've been given.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, that's right. I think that's absolutely right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let me tell you, when you get stolen from, whether it's out of your yard or out of your closet, it's emotional. There's a sense of violation that especially when it's in your personal residence, that is a big deal. I mean, and some people in some areas are more than others. But she's a Southerner, he's a Southerner, I'm a Southerner. We don't put up with this crap. We got no. This law and order stuff is a big deal to people like us. So. Yeah, I get it. I understand that. But. But I kind of think moving is a little bit of an overreaction to the information I've been given.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I agree with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. But I do. I'll go with you. Let's gather some more facts and based on the facts, make the decision. Ashley. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, but the facts you gave us do not indicate selling the house. Yeah, that's what I'll go with. All right. Anyway, that's the deal. Let me put that back on hold. So that's interesting. I haven't had that in a long time. But it does remind you that you need to do stuff like your property and casualty. You need to know what's going on with your homeowners insurance.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Point.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is covered? Because most homeowners insurance policies cover contents for theft and fire as a general amount. If you have an expensive item or two, which this would not be. This would have been covered under the thing I'm talking about. But like, say, for instance, you knew somebody had too many guns, you'd want to list those as a separate schedule and pay a little extra premium to cover the gun collection. Okay. That kind of a thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And let's talk about home security, which also.

[Dave Ramsey]

I said that wrong. There's no such thing as too many guns. But if you had. If you knew someone that was trying to attempt to hit that number.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah. And I would beef up security and let these guys know we're not going to put up with this. I think there's steps you can take before selling the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The little sign that says, you're on video so we can have the tape of when we shot you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, that's right. So it'll hold up in a court of law.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance. And I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Camel]

If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out, how am I gonna afford childcare? How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like. And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole New level. Like when you have to think through, how am I gonna pay my bills.

[Dave Ramsey]

How am I gonna be next week. Yeah.

[George Camel]

In the middle of all that grief, like, it's just. It is. It's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids, that so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re upping it because I'm like, I just want it there. Like, there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies, it doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza there really is.

[George Camel]

So that is one thing do to say I love you to your family.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we've used Zander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282. Or go to zander.com Shay is with us in Canada. Hi, Shea. Welcome to the show. How can we help?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Kind of a quick question. I hope I. I can't use the premium version of EveryDollar because I'm waiting for you to drop it in Canada, but until then, I'm trying to manually use it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Canada's. Canada's waiting for us to conform to crap we're not going to conform to. So it's not my fault. It's Canada's fault. But anyway.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, I believe it. I'm American, actually, I just live here, but so I have an emergency fund. I'm a single mom and with my two kids, I try to keep a couple sinking funds because, like, I have like an SOS one, I call it, and it's about a thousand dollars. And that's just for like a light emergency. Like, oh, my kid, you know, needs to go to the dentist for something and it's going to cost me $600. So I have like that set aside and then I have like a 500 dol thinking fun for, like, I call it kid crap. It's Just kid stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

Like both of these got used by the kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

What happened? I'm confused.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, they always need stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Why don't you just put that in a budget?

[Rachel Cruz]

I know, because I was trying to keep it separate, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm just saying you need to put the kid crap in the budget. That's part of operating your household.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So not like a sinking fund. Just.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can have a sinking fund. You have an emergency fund. But the kids should not be creating emergencies. You should have a predictable environment.

[Rachel Cruz]

They are so unpredictable.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they're not. I raised three of them. They become very predictable when you start telling them, no, it's not in the budget, because you didn't tell me about it.

[Rachel Cruz]

I know, but they like when he loses a shoe, and then he. I'm short a shoe, and now I have to go pay $40 to get a pair of shoes. It's. It just. I feel like every week I'm getting slapped with something from them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Kids clothing has events like that, and that should be in your budget, Hunter.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not an emergency. A lost shoe is not an emergency.

[Rachel Cruz]

How do you budget for something that's so flexible like that?

[Dave Ramsey]

You set aside an amount because throughout the year, you're going to have a kid tear up a piece of clothing, lose a piece of clothing, lose a shoe. That's part of having kids. They forget stuff and leave it laying around. And every weekend when the grandkids leave the lake house, we have to load a bucket full of stuff they forgot to take home, and I bring it back to the office and give it out to the different kids here. So kids just leave stuff. I got Crocs, I got swimsuits, I got sunglasses. I got all kinds of crap. And I'm bringing it all back every time. So. So they can leave it again the next weekend. But that. I get you. But the point is, that's just part of the rhythm of life when you've got littles.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And that's. That's where I'm feeling the pressure, because I feel like I'm living paycheck to paycheck because what do you make? I. About 6,000. Take home a month. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. 72,000 a year. All right. You ought to be able to live on that.

[Rachel Cruz]

I. Yeah, I have a. I live in expensive city, so I have about 4,100 going out, and I'm trying to do the debt snowball. So then I feel like when I have to use money for the kids or a minor emergency, I never know how to put the money back.

[Dave Ramsey]

So again, the. One of the rules of your budget is your budget has to reflect reality, not what you wish reality is. And what you wish reality is is that the kid didn't tear up or lose pieces of clothing, but they do because they're kids. And so you're just gonna have to say, all right, the kid's clothing budget includes some loss.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And you just. You're not. You're not budgeting enough for kids clothes. And so you need to change your budget. And it reflects reality then. And also, I'm gonna come down on them if they're constantly losing stuff. I mean, if you're losing something expensive, like, you know, you lose a couple, you know, one of two Air Jordans. I mean, we're going to have a problem in this house. Okay?

[Rachel Cruz]

So, yeah, we stop with there's no Air Jordan.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but I'm just saying, if they're doing something that's way irresponsible, they're being raised by a single mom, a warrior princess, and she's trying to get jobs done so they can conform and have a little bit more discipline and be a little bit more responsible, too. That's okay to call them out on that. But overall, it sounds like you're just not reflecting the reality of your life and your budget. So here's an example. We used to do Shay, that was similar. We had to correct it. That's how I know it. Okay. I was driving a car that had a pretty consistent pattern of needing repairs, but I was in denial about it. And so the repairs always landed in the emergency column. And they weren't really emergencies. They were really predictable. And so what I did, finally, after I admitted to myself that that's what was going on, is if I'm going to drive a car that breaks down, I'm going to have to have more in the car repair line item in my budget so that I don't get bit by this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I mean, we had. We have three kids, and the boys were growing rapidly. And so we got. We had to sit down and adjust our budget. And we looked at, okay, what do we think? The entire year, all three kids, what do we think we're going to put out for clothing? And it's a very simple process. You just got to try it and get it right, get it wrong, and then, you know, divide it by 12. And to Dave's point, you're putting that away. So that's no longer stress for you. It's really simplifying. And Right now it feels complex because you haven't allowed for it. So then something pops up and now it's creating stress. So simplifying, as Dave told you, is also going to take away that emotion that you're feeling like, oh, I can't keep up with this, when in all reality you can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's very doable. Sarah's in Milwaukee. Hi, Sarah, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. I'm doing great. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

So I have been listening to your show for the last few weeks and really trying to sit down and think about next steps. And my husband and I just got married in January. We bought our home about a year ago and just trying to figure out everything financially. Right Now I have 10,000 in savings and kind of just going through all my debt and kind of just saying, okay, what should I tackle first? What about retirement? Like, there's just so many questions, but really just what to battle first.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. How much debt do you guys have?

[Rachel Cruz]

So right now, 15,000 in credit card debt, 11,000 I still owe on my car. He does not owe anything on his. I have 30,000 left in student loans. Our home, we put 50,000 down, so we don't have any PMI, so we owe 170.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Rachel Cruz]

On our home.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Rachel Cruz]

It is 140,000 combined right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Phenomenal. Way to go. You guys got a great start. Like you said, you got to clean up some debt. So, Sarah, what we've been teaching for a long time to great success is the simple concept of the fastest way to become wealthy is to quit giving your money to everyone else in the form of debt. Your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. And when you give it all away to student loans, credit cards and car payments, you don't have any money to become wealthy with or to be generous with. Pretty simple math thing, okay? If you give your money away, you don't have as much. It's that simple, right? So we got to get rid of that blocker that's blocking you from becoming wealthy. You make a good income. You have the opportunity to join hands, literally and figuratively and financially with the person you just married. So the two of you can sit down tonight and say, we are going to together set some goals and we're going to attack this debt so that we can become wealthy so that we can live like no one else, so that later we can live and give like no one else so we can have a great life, in other words. Okay, so all of that. That's the underlying premise. And then what we figured out is that, that people need an order to attack these things. And somewhere around 30 years ago, we started teaching people to work what we call the baby steps. You may have heard that already. The baby steps are the first thing you have is $1,000 in the bank. You've already got 10,000. Okay, but a thousand is all you need for right now. So we're going to take nine of that and apply it to baby step two. Baby step two is you list all of your debts, smallest to largest. You pay minimum payments, the normal payment on everything but the little one. And you attack the little one with everything you can squeeze out of your budget and with $9,000. So I'm going to take the first $9,000 of your smallest credit cards and pay them all off and cut them up tonight with your husband. And I'm going to have $1,000. Then I'm going to beat the snot out of this debt in the next six months and get rid of it, all of it. And then when you don't have any payments, I'm going to build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Take the $1,000 account, raise it back up to a good solid savings account. Then baby step four, start putting 15% of your income away for retirement. If you do this, in seven to 10 years, you will be debt free, house and everything, and have close to a million dollar net worth. I'll show you how to do it. I'm going to send you a total money makeover book as my gift.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, Rachel, the Internet officially knows too much about all of us.

[George Camel]

So much, George. I mean our names, our addresses, even our relatives names. And what's crazy is even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't like that. And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year.

[George Camel]

Guys, that is so concerning. Because that info then can be used in phishing, scams, impersonation, and even harassment. That's why George and I both use and love Delete Me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, Delete Me scrubs your personal info from hundreds of these data broker sites. Not just once, but all year long. And there's real privacy experts behind the scenes doing this, not bots. So this is digital hygiene.

[Dave Ramsey]

We all need.

[George Camel]

We all need it. And then they will send you a detailed report showing exactly where they found your data and what they removed. And you can even request custom removals if you have something specific you want them to look out for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Exactly. And this is not being paranoid, this is staying protected. And so far, Delete Me has removed my info from 240 listings and saved me 94 hours of time it would have taken me to do it.

[George Camel]

I love it. And you guys, in a world where strangers can google your grandma and get enough info to scam her in just two clicks, Delete Me gives you peace of mind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So go to joindeleteme.com Ramsey for 20% off. And that discount brings their annual plans down to about 9 bucks a month. So go check it out. Joinedelete me.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. A lot of drama around real estate. And as Dr. John Deloney says, when you're facing drama or a crisis, facts are your friends. So what are the facts in the real estate business? Not what is somebody on Tic Tac saying. What are the actual facts? Not what your broke mother in law with an opinion said. What are the actual facts about real estate? Well, the facts are there's 1,082,520 homes on the market in the United States right now. That is the highest inventory of homes for sale available since 2019. However, demand is still exceeding the inventory. So that means prices have not gone down, nor will they, unless inventory exceeded demand. That's the only time you see prices drop in any commodity, including housing. So these are basic facts. And the median home price today is $441,000 in America, it's gone just a tiny bit every month this year, like $1,000 or something. Nothing. So home prices are steady to trending, barely up. Those are the facts. The facts are interest rates are exactly where they were, 5.95 right now. So under 6% for a 15 year fixed rate. So all in all, it's really good time to buy a piece of real estate or sell a piece of real estate if you're ready. If you're out of debt, you got your emergency fund, you got a down payment. All in all, that's the facts, you're okay. And if you need to sell a house right now, it's nothing to panic about. There's people buying houses and you know it's happening. So if you want to learn more about all this, go to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show notes and we'll help you out that way. Ashley's in Pittsburgh. Hey Ashley, what's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi Dave. And Ken, thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Rachel Cruz]

My husband and I are both. Yeah, my husband and I are both in our mid-30s and just had our first baby.

[Ken Coleman]

Yay.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm currently on the turn of. Very exciting. I'm currently on maternity leave and trying to decide whether to go back to work or stay home with our baby. Financially, we can afford for me to stay home. We're debt free, including our home, have an emergency fund, and we've been pretty disciplined about saving and investing. But we're torn because of a couple of other factors. The first is that we both work in tech, and with how fast AI is moving, we're concerned that our jobs could change or even disappear in the future. So part of us feels like we should double down on income and savings now while we can. I'm also worried that if I step away now, it could be tough to reenter the workforce later on if I decide to. Once we're done having kids and they're older, I don't know that I'd be able to get back to the same level I'm at now. So my question is, since we can afford either path, how would you think through this decision?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, first question I have is forgetting everything you just threw out in those two concern buckets. What does your heart want to do? What do you want to do? Let's start there. Ideal.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure. I guess nothing could replace the time with our children or our future children. So, no, my heart's leaning towards staying home with me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, so we start there. That's your. That's your ideal situation. Now let's take the first bucket. You both work in tech. AI is what you're thinking about because everybody's wondering, how is AI going to shake out? How is it going to affect tech jobs? Will it spin off new jobs? One of the things I would do because you're both in tech and you have knowledge of where tech is now, you probably have knowledge of where you think it's going. People that may be more advanced than you guys are. I would be talking, getting a lot of feedback, almost like a Halloween candy bucket knocking on doors, getting a lot of candy. I'd get a lot of real, legitimate feedback, not headlines, not people that are driving clicks. And I would. I would look at what does the future look like. Personally, I was on Fox Business probably three weeks ago. One of the topics they asked me about was what do I think about AI and it removing jobs. And that morning I had done some research and I went all the way back to the printing press in history. And I'll save you the entire study that I did in about 30 minutes. And I looked at what the media of the day and what the hand wringing and the pearl clutching of the day was around all these advances in technology from the printing press to where we stand today. And here's what's crazy, Ashley. And it all sounded the exact same. The alarm was it's going to kill jobs. And throughout history, what we saw is there was some recession of jobs in the immediate, but it always spun off more jobs. And I think AI is going to do the same thing. And that's just me doing some historical homework and talking to people that are experts in the industry. And I think it's going to spin off a lot so that. But do your own homework on bucket one. Bucket two is can I reenter, let's say 18 years from now if I want to? And I've coached a lot of moms on this particular issue. And the answer is you can. Now will you have to get some additional qualification if the puck has moved over 18 years? And it's understandable that it might, yes. But to be completely outdated, I'm not valuable. I have no skill, I have no experience. That's a bunch of garbage. And that's not true. So with staying focused, a kind of a finger on the pulse, maybe 14 years in and going, okay, I think four years from now I feel good. I want to come back. You got enough time to upskill and if you keep relationships, I think you'd be fine. That's my take on these two buckets.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Take a. Out of it. If you went back just 10 years and you stepped out of the technology market and you tried to step back in today, you'd have to retool.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What you'll be, you know what were using 10 years ago? Cold fusion. Nobody uses cold fusion today. And so you would have been you probably if you were doing, if you're writing code, you might have been proficient in cold fusion, which is now a dinosaur. Nobody uses it. Okay. You know what I'm talking about, right. And so, and you know, by the way, nobody's very few people are housing servers in their offices anymore. Ten years ago I had a room with an air conditioner in it it full of servers. Today I don't have one. Everything's in the cloud and I've got a much bigger operation than I did 10 years ago. So technology shifted in hardware, software, the Internet. So anytime something comes along that is a disruptor and that has a High rate of change, like technology does, like the Internet. The appearance of the Internet was supposed to put entire segments of the culture out of business. Instead, it created, to Ken's point, a lot of new jobs. There was no such thing as someone who built websites prior to the Internet. And while the Internet might have put out some kind of job, it created a whole bunch of people that built websites. And there was no such thing as email. And so, you know, did the postal carriers all go out of business? No, not because of email, you know, and there was no such thing as. And keep filling in the blanks. So 100% chance the knowledge that you have today, whether you stay in the market or whether you go home, the knowledge using today is going to be irrelevant 10 years from now, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So either way, you're going to either stay up with the market by staying in the market, or you're going to retool when you get ready to head back into the market. So given all of that, if I'm you and hearing what you said about wanting to be at home, I'm staying home. The only thing driving you to not stay home is fear about your career. And fear is not a good decision making tool. And in this case it's not accurate because you have to, you're going to have to stay up with change or retool to hit change no matter what. We live in the highest rate of change environment in the history of mankind. The change rate in transportation in the last 50 years, the change rate in communication in the last 50 years is more than the 500 years previous. So that's the environment that we all live in. And so he who hates change is screwed. That's what it amounts to. You better embrace it. And I hate it. I'm like everybody else. I don't. They just put new. I just got another computer and they put new stuff on my computer and I'm pissed off again, trying to figure out how to run it, you know. And it takes me a little while to get through the frustration of the learning curve. And then they'll give me another. It'll be download For Apple version 87.46 or whatever the crap it is. And now I gotta. Now my iPhone doesn't work anymore the way it used to. Now I gotta figure out all that because they were trying to help me. You're killing me. But that's the world we all live in is this rate of change. If I had sat down in 1975 in a car that I drive today, I wouldn't have known how to start it. Let's face it, health insurance today is more complicated than ever. The system isn't built to help the average person understand and it leaves too many families unprotected. That's why you need my friends at Health Trust Financial. They aren't just brokers. They're trusted health insurance advisors who have been helping families like yours for over 20 years. You don't have to navigate it alone. The experts at Health Trust Financial listen to your needs, work to understand your family situation and budget, then help you choose the health insurance plan. That's right. Right for you. That's why they're Ramsey trusted and why we've worked with them for two decades. Look, medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in America today. One hospital visit can wipe out your savings and undo all your hard work. So health insurance isn't optional. It's part of your financial defense plan. Health Trust Financial knows their stuff and they're the only health insurance provider I recommend. So get clear about health insurance plans and get the coverage that's right for [e-mail] Brandon's in Knoxville. Hi, Brandon. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, Dave. Good to talk to you. How you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Ken Coleman]

I just had a pretty quick question. Me and my wife decided that we're gonna sell our house and be moving back to our hometown in Florida. Our house is actually listed below the median price here in East Tennessee. And in almost three months we've only had four showings. And I was just wondering if you thought that was normal.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Well, I mean, it depends. What's the price?

[Ken Coleman]

The price of our house right now is 364,900.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what are the comparable sales in your area? I couldn't give a crap less what the median price in East Tennessee is because there's million dollar houses and there's $1,000 houses and there's neighborhoods associated with both. What is your house appraised at?

[Ken Coleman]

So our house was appraised at about around 400 is what it was appraised at.

[Dave Ramsey]

By who?

[Ken Coleman]

And then when she, our realtor did comps on it, she said that listing at 399 was an accurate pricing, which again, it's more than fair because we bought during 2020. So it's more than.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are the pictures? What are the pictures look like? The pictures they took and put on the Internet.

[Ken Coleman]

We got a professional photographer. He did the whole new 360 camera walkthrough thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did he expose the ugly. I mean, is the house ugly from the street?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I mean everything looks great. I put a lot of work into it. I've redone just about anything you can imagine in it. Everything looks good, the landscaping looks good. We just, we've only gotten four showings and I'm just, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you in an. Are you in an outlying area?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm actually right by one of the major airports over here. Pretty much near right next to the city of Knoxville. I mean we're in a great location. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're not a Knoxville, you're in Alcoa.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah. The girl asked and I think she's.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay, that's fine. I'm just. I was born in Maryland. I was born in Maryland, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, were you really?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Okay. So I actually know where you are. The. Well, that market's booming. That market and that topside road, all that stuff is booming. And you know, you've had a lot of good industry move in there and so there shouldn't. And your price, you are a, you know, mid range price and that thing. Yeah. You're not. There's a problem. Have you asked the real estate agent why it's not being shown? I'm sure you have.

[Ken Coleman]

I've asked and here's another question I had. Do you think a month and a half to do the first open house was way too long?

[Dave Ramsey]

Open houses usually don't sell anybody but the seller.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Number of times you sell a house at an open house is fairly low. I'm wondering if you're a real estate agent, how many houses did your real estate agent sell last year?

[Ken Coleman]

Year? I. I'm going to be completely honest with you. I don't know. It's a family friend that I went with.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, what was her answer? You never answered Dave's question on what.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did she say it's not selling?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's okay.

[Ken Coleman]

You just said to be patient. She said it's the market that's being slow. I ended up doing my own comps with actually a friend of mine that does real estate and they actually two of them and they both said they don't have any idea why in the world. It wouldn't even get more than 10 showings by now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's not. We don't think it's price. We don't think it's ugly. We don't think it's the location. We don't think it's the location. It's not far out location Is good.

[Ken Coleman]

Should they be doing more online advertising or how should a realtor be doing that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, here's what I'm concerned about. The only other thing I can think of is when you said family friend, I went gulp. Because that's not how you select a real estate agent. You select a real estate agent by getting a high octane, high protein, high performer. Because this is a huge asset and you're hiring a marketing consultant and they need to actually sell like, you know, 50 to 200 houses a year or you shouldn't be using them to sell your house. So I'm afraid this person might be selling three houses a year and there's no personal momentum around them, around their company, around their name. And so when another real estate agent that is high octane sees that sign versus a different sign, they're not giving it due because the person that's got it listed, I'm afraid you got a weak sister, so to speak, with a sign in the yard. So you might want to change just on that basis. And not because I don't think they're doing horrible, but I just don't think they're doing it. And you've obviously said that and you've got that. So I think you just call them up and say, hey, listen, in the name of preserving our friendship, I'm becoming very frustrated and I think we need to separate. I know you tried. Thank you for that, but I need to try something else now. And otherwise I'm afraid I'm going to become extremely frustrated and I don't want to damage our friendship. So we're going to try something else. And thank you for trying.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, fair enough. I agree. And I'm absolutely stuff because this is the first house I've ever had to sell, so I've never had to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay. That's okay. A lot of people do this. It's the. They're, you know. But if I hired you, if you worked for me and you were to select a consultant to assist with a $400,000 asset and you selected a consultant who doesn't do it very much, I would fire you. See what I'm doing? Doing. Because you hired somebody that's not got a proven track record in the marketplace. So go to ramseysolutions.com and click on real estate. Find one of the Ramsey trusted real estate agents. There's several in your area. Interview two or three of them and interview them like you're hiring a marketing consultant that you're going to pay 20 grand to because you are. And so you ought to get. They ought to come in with a presentation about how awesome they are and how much volume they move and what the marketing plan is to move your property. And they ought to earn your business by their professionalism and their productivity. And that's how you would hire a good marketing consultant. That's how you hire a real estate agent. So 85% of the real estate agents people are not in the business three years after they start. The average income earning of a real estate agent in America today is $36,000 because they go get their license and they sell one or two houses a year. You do not want those people selling your house. I don't care if it's your Uncle Charlie. He's sweet Uncle Charlie. He sucks as a real estate agent. I don't care if it's Gilda down at the church. I'm sure Gilda's a sweet little church lady, nice lady, but she sucks as a real estate agent. You don't hire Gilda. That's not. Don't hire Uncle Charlie. Don't hire Gilda. I agree. And people do this all the time. And. And sometimes the people that get their license and their brand new friends and their old friends and new licenses, they get pissed off if you don't use them. I've had a real estate license since I was 18. I listed our house with one of our Ramsey trusted things people many years ago. And one of our friends got mad at me and I'm like, well, there's like three people in line in front of you. A, the guy who listed it, B, me with a license before we would get to you, who doesn't sell any house. So you just sit over there in your house and be pissed off. That's just dumb. Okay, yeah. So no, we're not doing that. But that's. Brandon, you did what everybody else does. And so I think you just go gently and kindly correct the situation interview like you were hiring a professional marketing consultant for a piece of real estate. Because that's what a real estate agent is. And then you get someone that you can connect to and that is very convincing of their productivity and their proclivity, their competence, their high octane. They move property and someone wants to sell a house, then maybe they ought to have sold a house like 50 times last year or 100 times last year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know what stuck out to me is the first answer to Brandon's question, legitimate question was be patient. That tells me that the reason that she said to be patient is because She's a little too patient. I'm thinking of the lady that Stacy and I have used for a long time. She's one of the top producers in all of Tennessee, top two or three in this area. And she is not someone I would describe as patient. And there is a time and place for patience. But that should have not been the first bullet fired to his question. That's a warning sign. And that, to your point, is a wiring issue. It's a results issue. Yeah, I listen for things like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

It might not be the real estate agent here.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It might not.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't know. This could be a high producing real estate agent. We don't have the numbers on this agent, but we do know he's unhappy with her. So let's just change horses. Yeah, it's okay. Nothing wrong with that. I've seen people do everything possible to get out of debt. Selling stuff, starting side hustles, canceling subscriptions, giving up eating at restaurants, even turning off the air conditioner in the summer and sweating through it. But most of them don't know they're overpaying for their phone plan. With Boost Mobile you get unlimited talk text and Data for just $25 a month. That's it. And that $25 never goes up. No contracts, no junk fees and no tricks. So do the math, it's not that hard. And go to boostmobile.com Ramsey restrictions apply. See Boost Mobile Ramsey for details. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Nicole is in Colorado. Hi Nicole, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm well. How are you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

So I had a question about kind of like an in between baby step thing. So essentially we have a couple of larger lump sum amounts that should be coming into our position within the next few months. And I wanted to know whether I should just throw all of it to the remaining student loan debt, which is the only debt we have, or if we should split it, putting some towards a potential down payment and then the rest towards the student loan, kind of building both things simultaneously.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how long have you been working to get out of debt?

[Rachel Cruz]

Relatively recently my student loans were in deferment with the all the COVID stuff and everything like that. And then My husband, the union contract through his job, finally reached an agreement. So he has a bunch of back pay coming in and we have a.

[Ken Coleman]

Sizable.

[Rachel Cruz]

Tax return that should be coming in. And so it will.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you just started a system and then I'm going to poke at you. Are you ready to be poked?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then your first thing is to cheat the system.

[Rachel Cruz]

Via the home buying process.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. You don't need to be buying a house till you're out of debt. And so we need to put it all on the debt so we can get to that cleared. How much debt? How much debt do you have?

[Rachel Cruz]

Less than 24,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much is all this back pay and taxes amount to?

[Rachel Cruz]

It should reach about 25.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so you can pay everything off.

[Rachel Cruz]

The other issue is that we have two vehicles that are completely paid off. Good old buy outright sort of things. But they need some work. So there's no way I can actually put all of that into the debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because why are they not running?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, they are functional.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Put it all on the debt. Quit screwing around with this. Get out of debt. It's the thing holding you back from everything. Now that you're out of debt, what's your household income?

[Rachel Cruz]

Let's see here. Our household income before or after taxes and insurance and such afterwards would be take home of 53,000 roughly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But you're insurance coming out of that and taxes too much in taxes coming out because you got a tax refund fund.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, so. So before taxes and Insurance, it's about 71.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so what. What repairs need to be done to the car and what do they cost?

[Rachel Cruz]

So I just called and got a quote the other day for the biggest thing, which is like the timing belt and water pump. And then I also have an O2 sensor which is affecting acceleration. And so that should probably come out to be about 25 to 3 grams or.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, two sensors. Not that the timing belt is. Yeah, the O2 sensors. Almost nothing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, but the timing belt is the bigger.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, run. Get the O2 sensor fixed out of your budget and then start saving in the next month. Go ahead and do the timing belt. You can do it in a month.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let's get them fixed and get them going. Keep. Keep things running. Now you're out of debt. And then you need to build your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and then you need to save for a downfall payment.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what we teach. And you already knew that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I was trying to listen to as many as possible to kind of get an idea if anybody else asked my exact same question.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I mean, you. You knew the process, though, was that we get out of debt and have an emergency fund before we buy a house, didn't you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I will.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you knew that. And you. You've been listening long enough to know that part. And so let's just stick to that. That. And that's going to be your shortest distance to getting a home in a situation where the home is not creating stress and instead is a blessing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to get a house. I don't want the house to get you, kiddo.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, well, particularly since we're not exactly on the higher range of income, so it's not exactly like we're affording a fancy. Totally redone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Make sure you don't have. How many years in a row have you got? Tax reform.

[Rachel Cruz]

This is probably the fourth.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much has been your tax refund?

[Rachel Cruz]

Let's see. Last year was about 11,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What that means is they're taking almost $1,000 a month, too much out of your checks, and then they give it back to you a year later with no interest.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Particularly since the W2 has not been amended to account for the children we have had.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to amend the W2 to account for 10. $10,000. $800. $850 a month needs to come home more than is coming home now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, that would be substantial.

[Dave Ramsey]

That'll help your budget. See? And that'll pay for the timing belt and everything else. You don't need to have a savings account with the irs. That's what a tax refund is.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Monthly, you make a deposit into the irs, and at the end of the year, they give you a tax refund. Santa Claus does not live in Washington. That's your money. Didn't come from him. I know him. Well, he lives in north pole, not in D.C. matter of fact, he's like most of us. He doesn't even like dc, so. Yeah, that's fun, kid. You're gonna do great. Stick with the system. Let me send you a copy of the book, the Total Money Makeover. You and your husband both go through that, and both of you hold hands and get dialed in and really focused, maybe for the first time in your lives on the details of this stuff. And then work those baby steps. Exactly. And that'll get you a home that's a blessing. Faster than anything else. You know, Ken, I was on a guy's podcast a while back. Who was very successful. And he surprised me when he said, you know, I've known him for a decade. And he goes, I've never done your stuff till about two years ago. And he goes, I finally started doing it, and I did it exactly in detail the way you teach. And he goes, the progress we've made is in a short period of time is enormous. And then he said something that kind of shocked me. He said, my problem was I refused to submit myself to a system.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I thought, that's an interesting word choice because that's, you know, if you bring in a personal trainer and they have a six pack and you got a keg, you have to submit yourself to their advice and their eating pattern that they're suggesting, their workout pattern that they're suggesting. Because they have a six pack, you got a keg. So you need to know that they know something you don't know. And you don't need to tell them how to do this. They know how to do it. Yeah. And that's interesting.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It is interesting. And the guts of this is focused discipline. That's the key. I also want to give Nicole your quick read, the momentum theorem, because I think that's fabulous. You know what I mean? To just really understand the power of that and then get into the baby steps. It's quick read.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know, because what you're teaching here for her, she's been listening, but she really needs to understand what makes the baby steps so powerful is that it is exactly the illustration you use. It's like a trainer who's going to come in and be very focused on nutrition. Nutrition plus exercise. We're going to work on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Am I going to do it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's the issue you got to submit to. As your friend said, that's a great one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because none of us. I don't like that word.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want to submit to nothing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, it takes our illusion of power away.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I don't want to. I don't want to submit myself to. What's that? No, no, thank you. Feel like I'm bowing down or something. You know, it's a weird word, but what it means is I'm admitting that my plan is not working and I need to try yours. That's what I'm admitting when I do that. And I thought that was interesting. And he said it made huge progress after that. Yeah. Foreign.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. These days, it feels like there is so much trendy advice related to everything, mental health and wellness. But how do you know it actually works for you? I'm just going to be honest with you, there is a ton of nonsense out there. Noise, noise, noise and all the noise on the Internet can lead to information overload. So it can be a struggle to know what's legitimate and what things you should actually do to improve your life. Here's the truth. Using trusted resources and talking to a live therapist can help you break through the noise. All this scrolling madness with personalized real recommendations. If you're thinking about starting therapy, contact BetterHelp. BetterHelp is a hundred percent online therapy, which means it's convenient and affordable and it's super easy to get started. Just fill out a short online survey, you'll get matched with a licensed therapist and as the largest online therapy provider in the world world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. BetterHelp is rated 4.9 out of 5 stars based on over 1.7 million reviews in the App Store. Listen, talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H lp.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our Free Every Dollar trainings. There's new trainings every week this month. They're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personal personalities. Rachel Cruz, George Camel or Jade Warshaw will be there to show you how to stick to a budget and even find $9,560 of margin on average using every dollar so you can get out of debt, start building wealth. Plus you can ask us any question during the live Q and a little bit like this show except you can actually get through. So sign up for [e-mail] webinar ramseysolutions.com Antonio is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi Antonio, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, doing well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

Awesome. Thanks for taking my call. I was curious. I have a small power washing business that I'm hoping to be able to do full time next summer and my wife and I are still in baby step two. We were not sure if we should put money away for for like a larger emergency fund to cover expenses for the business and as well as home since I'll be like fully self employed over the summer next year.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make at your regular job now?

[Ken Coleman]

At my regular job we bring home around just over $8,000 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are. You and her.

[Ken Coleman]

My wife and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

What you make, you're the ones going.

[Ken Coleman]

To quit about 6,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're going to make $72,000 a year with pressure washing profit.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, sorry. So I drive school buses during the school year and so in the summertime we find our own work. And that's kind of what I was hoping to do like in the, in the meantime basically over summer. So I wouldn't be like full time throughout the whole year. It's just in the summertime that's when we're busy as power washing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What were you doing in the summer? Summer.

[Ken Coleman]

This summer I actually picked up a concrete truck driving job with my cdl. And that's. That's paid well.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what did you make?

[Ken Coleman]

And that's, that's. Sorry, that's what I'm bringing like that's when I'm bringing 6,000 from is there's a concrete.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So for three months. So 18,000 bucks you've got to make in pressure washing to offset the concrete truck job, Correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the summertime only. Am I right? Am I hearing that?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you make? Driving school bus.

[Ken Coleman]

That fluctuates because we, we kind of can do as much overtime as we want, but it's probably closer to about 5,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Nine months a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, good. So Ken and I teach with small business ideas that you want to pull the boat close to the dock before you jump in. But this is not that big a deal because it's only for three months. So you don't really to have a big emergency fund. You just need to get busy in the spring and line up a whole bunch of jobs. Listen, so when is the last day you drive? In May.

[Ken Coleman]

The last day would be, I think it's May. May 20th.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the 1st of May, I want you to start calling on people and setting up jobs to begin on the 20th. And I want you to fill up the 10 days of May and all of June before May 20th. I want you to fully do your marketing and book up the first month of work solid.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And you already have the equipment, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Correct? Yeah, I have a paid for trailer. All the equipment. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And so, so I want you to book up. And so here's what happens during the month that you are doing that work. You go and get the other two months booked up. Up. If at any time you don't get something booked up, you got to shut down and go do Something else. So IF during the 20 days of May that we are driving a truck and booking up and at night knocking on people's doors and getting pressure washing jobs or whatever you're going to do to get the jobs, if during that 20 days you can't get that month full, you have to go drive concrete truck instead.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you have to prove this business idea or not do it. That makes sense.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That would also be more peace as well. Because then I'm not stressed if you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don'T need any emergency fund to do what I'm talking about.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All you need is business.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a plan. And a plan B. If business doesn't hit.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Two questions. How many hours are you working on average? Because you mentioned overtime. How much are you working working when driving the school bus? Nine months a year. What's an average week hours wise?

[Ken Coleman]

My average. Oh man, it was close to like 50, 55 hours when I was picking up all the overtime.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The reason I asked five days a week, right? Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The reason I asked that is I would also add to Dave's advice. I'd be doing pressure washing on the weekends, Sunday afternoons, some Saturday mornings. If you've got time. If you can handle that load, you may not be be able to. Second question is, what is the, the difference in, in rate per hour if I'm pressure washing for myself versus driving the concrete truck? What's the difference in hourly pay?

[Ken Coleman]

So the, the concrete truck is a 28 an hour right now. And like there's potential for raises of course next year. But power washing, I try to like whenever I go give a quote, I try to get somewhere around $100 an hour hour where I could take home like most of that. Yeah. Since, since I'm not putting any money into the business right now, it's all going to baby step two.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, that's good. I just wanted to know.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that means. That means you're making almost 4x per hour. So that means you could work 1/4 the hours and make exactly the same.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Money if the pipeline is full.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you've got to get those hours booked. You got to get slammed. And if you can get yourself slammed 10 hours a day doing pressure washing for three months, you're gonna make a pile of money.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how have you been acquiring customers?

[Ken Coleman]

Actually so I the only. Most of the customers I've been watching for the summer after like I'll do it after I drive the trucks. So I'm working a lot more.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Ken Coleman]

I partnered with an HOA from someone who I know at church, is the secretary for the hoa, and she heard I had the small business and offered to partner. And so we. That's all it's been, is referrals within that neighborhood. It's a very large neighborhood, and I haven't had to do door knocking or anything. Thankfully, people are just recently.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you paying her?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I didn't. I didn't pay her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so you say partner. You didn't partner. She. She just was your source. She helped you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, they. They like to have, like, local businesses that can come in. Like, they have a landscaper.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And then they asked me to come in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Good. Well, that's a great partner. I like that kind of partner.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That was my first question. What's your. What's her take on this deal?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so. Yeah, I think so. You've got a good source. And if you start working that HOA leads and even people you worked for last year and swing back around, say, hey, I'm gonna. I'm gonna gear up May 20th. When can I put you on the schedule? They're gonna line up, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Correct. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because I got a guy that hits my. My lake house, which is known for mildew. It's a lake house with pressure washing every spring. And he's got pretty much a set. All we have to agree on is the day he's going to do it. He's got a set customer. As long as he shows up, does the work. Charges me about the same. You know, he's been doing it for years for me, and. Great guy. And so that's who you are. You're that guy so you can create repeat businesses. Swings back around annually. And, you know, hey, you know, Antonio is going to be ready to go here, baby. And we're going in.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I. I love this. I. I didn't know the numbers on this. Antonio, I got to give you this. Take this or leave it in my neighborhood. We saw an ad recently in the. Whatever the neighborhood newsletter is, about a young guy who is going around pressure washing garbage cans, which, you know, can get pretty nasty.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'd add that to the thing. You may be surprised. It might add a little 30 minutes to the deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're already there.

[Dr. John Deloney]

People don't think about it, but when we saw it, I was like, stace, we need this kid to come over because it's disgusting dusting these.

[Dave Ramsey]

These garbage cans. Yeah. And she's like, ken, get out there and clean it up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, she Didn't. She knows better. I think she's given in after all these years. My intentions will be good but I'll get distracted on the way to the trash can and then come up with three other projects is usually my problem. But yeah, you're right. He's just out there power washing these trash.

[Dave Ramsey]

While you're there, add the that as a. You know for $25 we'll knock these.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Out cuz you'd be surprised how people will go cuz no dude that I know wants to spray out his garbage can. So yeah, little upcharge.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well you mean he's in an hoa? He's in a neighborhood like yours. So there you go. Those rich people, they do all kinds of stuff.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Time is money, Dave. Somebody told me that once.

[Dave Ramsey]

SA Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? If your private student loans are in default and you feel stuck, you're not out of the options. Why Refi specializes in helping borrowers like you find real solutions with low fixed rate refinancing, go to why refi.comramsey that's the letter Y refi r e f y.com/ramsey not available in all states.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Today's question comes from David in West Virginia. I've recently learned that a couple of my employees mooch personal money from soft hearted co workers and aren't paying back what they've borrowed in a reasonable amount of time, if ever. While it may just be a couple of hundred dollars of personal money, I'm afraid afraid of negative culture developing in the workplace. Do I have a right to address a situation since it's between them personally and the business isn't really involved? Do I have a right? Yeah, I think you do in the sense of these are people that you're employing and it's now becoming an issue that is going. It's not a gossip issue. This is a fact. At least you you're outlining in a way where you know this is a fact and it's rising up to you and this affects the actual team dynamic and I think, I think talking to the people that are loaning the money is probably where I would start. I think anytime you've got a situation like this where you've got people just with bad behavior, where they're loaning, I mean they're borrowing basic small amount of money and not paying it back, that's just irresponsible and to me that's a sign that they shouldn't be working for you. So I would Be addressing that issue. Not so much getting into all these details. I would kind of end around it instead of sit down with these people like their little kids. I may be wrong on that. You may have a different approach. But I would probably address the fact that there's a character problem here and it's been made aware. To me that's a character problem. And I don't want people working for me that have character problems.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have a right, you have an obligation. Obligation.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you are, you are in charge of what happens there under your leadership. And crap is happening under your leadership. And if you don't do anything about it, you suck as a leader. So you've got to do something about it now. Then the question becomes how heavy handed are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is the. And what is it that you do? So if it's a couple hundred bucks, I'm probably starting with the two people loaning money. I'm gonna give them both a total money makeover book, pay for them to go to Financial Peace University and here's your $200 back and don't ever loan anybody money again as long as you work here. If you do, I'm going to fire you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I like that approach.

[Dave Ramsey]

And just make them whole and then shut down the source. Then I'm going to the two or the couple of people, whoever it is, that borrowed the money and didn't pay it back and say this is over. If you borrow money from someone here at the office or get money as a gift from someone here at the office again, again, as long as you work here, it will be your last day. You're not doing this anymore. For you to take money from someone that's hard working and then not give it back to them as promised is a character problem. It's almost stealing. You're pretty close. And so no, you're not going to do that while you work here. I want an environment where people feel safe, where people like each other, they trust each other. That's the culture that we're going to have. And that can only occur if you are worthy of trust. And so I have paid them the money back. You don't owe them, you are forgiven the debt. But if you ever borrow a dime or take a dime in charity from someone else that works here while you work here and I find out about it, it will be your last day. And I'd give them a zero tolerance, one strike, you're out from here on. So they Get a warning, they're whole, the other guy's whole problem solved, it's over. And then I would make an. I don't know how big an organization this is, but I would just make an announcement that just says, hey guys, sometimes people want to borrow money and stuff. I've made a decision, that's not okay here. And if somebody comes to you to ask you to borrow money from them, it's not okay here. You don't need to loan people money that work here. Everybody here works too hard. Nobody here is rich, okay? So don't get in that business. And you guys quit trading dollars back and forth. You don't trade spit back and forth. You don't trade dollars back and forth. You work here. This is what we're doing, okay? And you know, just have, make a general announcement, make a joke about it and move along and don't, don't make a big thing. Like we've had this serious problem and I've addressed. I wouldn't do all that. Just make a general blanket Quick statement. 30 seconds. Hey, just want to let everybody know I've got a policy on this and I'm not okay with this and don't do it anymore if you were doing it. So we're done. And. But you've already addressed the other people directly, individually and privately before you get there. But you have a responsibility. It's not just a right. Yeah, your responsibility for the people that work there. Okay, so let me give you another example, Ken. Everybody acts like somehow that you're not allowed to do stuff in business because it's business and you're supposed to just keep it all business. Right? Well, that's a bunch of horse crap. Okay, So I got 1100 people here. I was standing lunch line a while ago getting a taco with a young guy who just got married to another person in the building. He met his new wife here. So now I have two team members that are married that work here. Okay? And he met her here. They just bought a house. Great little couple, sharp as attack, all that. That's the good story. The other story is when someone starts dating here and it goes bad and then they feel threatened or stalked or whatever, well, that's their personal life. You shouldn't get involved in, in that. Dad gum. Right, I'm getting involved in it. It's a 26 year old, 25 year old young lady that feels threatened inside our building. Absolutely, I'm getting involved in it. That's not happening here under my watch. I'm the leader of this organization. Her dad expects me to make sure she's in a safe situation. And I'm an old southern gentleman and we take care of the ladies. That's how we do it. It's an old school chivalry thing. And if you don't like, get your butt out of here and don't let the door hit you as you go out. I couldn't care less. And so that's, you know, you don't have a right. No, I've got an obligation to her because I gotta look her dad in the face if he stops by visits one of these days and say, your daughter's safe here, no doofuses are gonna be around her. That's right. And so, yeah, it's not just a right, it's an obligation to create a safe, high quality culture. Well, you're getting involved in their personal lives. That's none of your business. Dadgum right, it's my business. It happened on my, my payroll, inside my building. That makes it my freaking business. So some of you guys that own businesses need to grow a freaking backbone and stand up and do the stuff you're supposed to do to protect your team and take good care of your team and actually be a freaking adult about it instead of like, I'm a wuss. And everybody says I don't have a right. And it's not just a right, it's an obligation. It's called leadership. So. But I'm not gonna. That's the heavy handed part is running down your backbone, not at the employee.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm gonna soft pedal this with the employees. But you know, this thing of, this is a liberal left wing garbage. I have the right to. Yeah. You know, let me just tell you about my rights. It's got my name on the side of the building. That's my right. Okay. That means everything happens in here is my right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you don't like it, hit the door. I'm good with that. You know, and that's how this thing works. Again, I don't talk to people that way directly, but that's the inner Dave going, yeah, I'm going to stand up, take care and love the people that are inside of here. And this is a quality high class where you can meet your wife, get married, buy your first house, and I get to meet you downstairs when we're getting a taco. And I'm happy and proud that that's the environment that that young man's in.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And I love the Example you give Dave, because you do that and I've seen you over 11 years. And what's funny is the people that would attack that. It's not funny. The irony is the people that would attack that are the ones that would scream everyone needs rights and women's rights, all that. And actually when you defend someone who works for you from being stalked or from that is absolutely defending their right to come to work and be safe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So the irony of the criticism of that, of, oh, you've gotten involved in something personal. No, again, they are a professional and to your point, you are responsible for a safe environment. And I think that's a great juxtaposition on how you laid that out.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the political correctness crap has invaded people that own businesses and they don't. They're even, they're afraid to even operate their own business.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I'm not sure I have the right. By God, you not only got the right, you got the obligation. Baby Sam, Sarah is in Indiana. Hi, Kara, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

Thanks for taking my call. I'm a recent college grad and I paid out of state tuition for my degree. I kept my costs low and competed in three seasons of athletics and I earned about 15,000 in my sports scholarships and then I also did honors college. I negotiated for more aid and applied for additional scholarships, saving around 25 to 30 thousand dollars. My parents set up 529 plans for me and each of my siblings and they've always said the amounts were equal. They chose expensive private schools and one has already overspent and is in grad school and the other is on track to do the same. I now live at home with my parents and I'm working while building a budget. I started to contribute to. I plan to start contribute to my529 to grow it for either my future education or if I decide not to go back, my child. I don't have any kids yet, but my future children. That's when this issue came up. There's still leftover money in my 529, possibly 30,000 or more, but my parents won't tell me the exact balance. They're supportive if I go back to school, but they said no when I asked about saving it for my future children's education if I don't end up going back to. I even once offered to give some to my siblings possibly and they still said no. And now they're considering using it for my dad's. Retirement. So my question.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm 22.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Oh, my.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I guess.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, not. Number one, you've got to start looking for other housing, don't you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm sorry. Number two, your parents are in for a rude awakening. The 529 is not under their control. It's under your. Yours. Do you have the account number?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know. I don't have any information on it. And from what everything they've told me, I'm just the beneficiary to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's not how it works.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

A529 is in your name, and they are the custodians until you're 21. So this is just your money, period.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

They have absolutely no legal control over this at all. And so I would sit down and let's back into this. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor Pro. Okay? And I want you to sit down with one of our SmartVestor pros in the investment world and let them assist you and see if you can find this account. If you can find it, just simply move it, okay? Out of their control. I mean, out of their hands, where they can't find it. Okay? Because it's simply not their money. They funded it, but it's not their money. That's the danger of a 529 or. Or an UTMO account. Either one. When you're 21, it is your money, okay? And so that's. They. They committed that money to you. They don't have options here. So I. I think that's right, and I think that's what you'll find, and I think you can just move it. But if they're going to steal 30,000 from you after you've put in all this effort to go to school with spending almost nothing, you should leave the home immediately. Are you employed?

[Rachel Cruz]

I am, yeah. I just started working and I'm looking to just save up money by living here. I know, a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

But this is a toxic situation. Situation. You can't. You can't. You can't compartmentalize this, kiddo. Your mother and father are trying to steal money from you. That's what you described to me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And it's difficult because if I do decide to go back, then I don't want it to be an issue. But I'm also worried that if I don't. That.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, no, I want you. I want you to find out immediately by meeting with a smartvestor pro. If you can find this message money, and if I'm correct that the 529 is in your name, then you just move it. If you can find it, you just move it. Okay, if I'm not correct, then you may just have walked away from $30,000, but I'm not sure you had it. Anyway, so your parents are. They're. Well, this is just. It's just morally wrong. That's the kindest way I can say it. What they're proposing is morally wrong when they saved money for your college and there's a balance left in the account because of your effort and they want to take that and use it. And they even propose, if it even came out of their mouth, that they would say, I'm going to take your money and use it for my retirement. I don't care if he put it in there or not. He put it in there for you. And then you have been more responsible than the other side. And in return, you get your money stock stolen. That's morally toxic and wrong. And that's me being very gentle because it's heartbreaking when you're 22 and you live there and you love them to discover that they're not trustworthy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Kara, you mentioned I don't think I.

[Rachel Cruz]

Could look at them.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, you've mentioned a couple times. I might go back. What would that. What is in your mind about that?

[Rachel Cruz]

So I'm a nurse and I'm looking to possibly go back for grad school. Maybe nurse, anesthetist or nurse practitioner.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Both of those would be great. That's a good use of money there. 30,000. Won't get either one of those, though.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, but I figured it could help a little bit.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, but the reason I ask is I'm just trying to catch you on the front end of this. Save that money up. You're making good money as a nurse, so hopefully you get control of those funds. And if you make that decision, hopefully what we want is to see you save that up, have a target.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do not add anything to this 529 until you are in 100% control of it. And even then, I'm probably not going to add anything. I'm probably just going to save money to go to school with.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I don't think you need to add anything to this in any scenario, but you need to figure out if you can get control of it, and then you need to. Once you do, you need to have a Different conversation with your parents. And I'm out of there within 30 days if I'm you. And it's the only possible way you can maintain some kind of relationship with these folks going forward, because they are, you know that what they're doing is just really, really, really wrong. It's really toxic. And so. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Would you say there's a high rate of probability that if she were to pull off what you're advising her to do that they're going to be pretty upset about it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I'd say they're going to be so pissed they never speak to her again.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's what I thought.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm not sure that's a big loss.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It isn't, but I wanted her to hear that. I want you to hear that, Kara, because there's really. This thing's going south. One way or the other. It's going to eat you alive or it's going to make them upset. You got to do what's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You may choose to walk away from this and just never look back. Yep. That may be your choice. But if you can get control of your money, I would. And I think. I think you can. I don't know if we can find it or not, but we got to get some clue as to where it is. But maybe a smart Vista Pro can help you with that, and they can advise you as to whether the advice I'm giving you is correct or not. I might not be correct. I'm sitting here spinning in my brain. I was real sure when I first said it. Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm right, but I think I'm right. So, anyway. All right. Danielle's in South Carolina. Hi, Danielle. How are you? Oh, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, Dave. It's so good to speak to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too. I'm real short on time. Can you go straight to it, please?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. How does. This is a big question. I could have something easy. How to save money at the grocery store. I. I mean, I'm working on getting married next year. I'm engaged.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Rachel Cruz]

So just trying to figure out how to work through the finances.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Getting on the same page with your potential fiance.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Well, he is my fiance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you are. You're not working on getting married. You're scheduled to get married. Okay. So. All right. Yeah. I think the way you work through with anyone is lots and lots of. And lots of communication about the subject. The biggest thing with money is people don't talk about it until they talk, until they're mad. And so let's talk about it before we're mad. I want to talk to you about saving. I want to talk to you about debt. I want to talk to you about a budget. I want to talk to you about combining our finances and I want us to be aligned on that before we get to the altar because we're not going to get to the altar unless we get aligned on that because it's the number one cause of divorce in North America today. And I want us to be aligned on that. And so let's talk about about it and let's talk about it. And let's talk about it. I hate debt. How do you feel? I love saving. How do you feel? I love generosity. How do you feel? I want to be on a written plan that you and I are in agreement to. I want us to combine everything and live our lives together like we actually love each other. If we're going to share a bed, we're going to share a checking account. And so what is the deal here? And let's start talking that stuff through and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of communication on all that. And I'll tell you what, I'll give you a framework to discuss it with. It's called the total money makeover. I'll send you my copy of it for free as your engagement gift. Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and host of the new Ramsey hit on Ramsey network called Front row seat where he does long form interviews with famous and accomplished people where you can learn the principles from them. You will love this show. He's my co host today. The phone number is 888-255-2225. Gary is in Michigan. Hey Gary, what's up?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, not too much. Dave. Ken, how are you guys today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'm trying to get the gumption to cancel a whole life policy. Been listening to you guys for about 15 months. And I know I need to do it. I just need to push the long story short. I can give you a little conference context. My dad was very financially successful, died about three years ago, and I had an annuity, or he had an annuity, which is how he left me some money. And there was a whole life policy that this guy who had the annuity, my dad, had taken it out on me, and there was some cash value there. And he said, well, let's like, you know, set fire to the thing and essentially build a legacy, if that makes sense. Build on your dad's financial legacy. Unfortunately, I did that before I found you guys. And so I'm just trying to deal with the emotional. The emotions that come with. With that, if that makes sense.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What are the emotions that make sense? It does. But what do you name these emotions?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let's. I don't. I don't make a ton of money. I work. I work for a nonprofit Christian ministry. Ministry. And so there's. Let's just say that my dad, like, he was. He was very successful at what he did. Ran his own business for a long time. And so he kind of pitched it in a way. It made me think, oh, I'm. I can take care of my kids the way my dad took care of me. I can take care of myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But then you've discovered that that was not true.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What is the emotion? I'm trying to help you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you pissed at him? Yeah. Are you afraid you're not going to live up to your dad's expectations and legacy? What is the emotion?

[Ken Coleman]

I think it's. I'm not even. I wouldn't say I'm mad at the insurance agent, though. I mean. Yeah, it's fear, mostly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Fear of what?

[Ken Coleman]

Fear of failing, I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let me stop you. Figure out. Figured out that if you leave the money in this, you're going to fail.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so, yeah. If you pull the money out of it, is your only option to not fail?

[Ken Coleman]

It feels that way. Yeah. I don't want to. I'm afraid of screwing it up a second time. Like, I've already screwed up by getting this policy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And was duped into it. And now I fear that I'm not smart enough to do the right thing the second time. Does that make sense?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. You lost confidence in yourself. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So here's the answer. Here's the antidote to that. Okay. We're not going to trust the agent and we're not going to trust Dave. And Ken, and just do what anybody says anymore. Instead, you need to learn and understand and make an intellectual decision as to what the right thing is after gathering the facts and then based on that, see, before you went with the agent who used a power play off of your father's memory instead of facts to make a sale. Yeah, okay, And I've given you facts. You've obviously looked at how bad a product, whole life, life insurance is and you've decided, I want to invest my money somewhere else. You've got to become confident in those facts for yourself. Not because I said, but because they're facts. And when you're confident in those facts, then this becomes what's known as a no brainer.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, I understand, but that's the emotion.

[Dave Ramsey]

The emotion is I'm not confident yet. I don't know if I understand this. I don't know if I'm missing something. So here's another thing. Continue to gather information. Go sit down with a smart vision, Mr. Pro, have them walk through with you how bad this product sucks and then what you could do with it if it was in a good mutual fund. And then you will cash this crap out and tell this crook to go on his way.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay? That's how, that's helpful to hear.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you know, if somebody's stolen money from you and you discover that you wouldn't, you don't need. It's not, you're not fearful. You're like, I'm gonna get the money but back. That's not fear. That's just I made. Yeah, you did make a mistake. That's okay. Everybody makes mistakes. By the way, I bought a whole life policy when I was 22, okay?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, really?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And that's one of the ways I learned about this. I got screwed by a college friend of my wife's who came calling right after college and this sweet little married couple and sold me the same bill of goods that they sell everybody. And I was, I got a finance degree and I was so stupid I bought it. So, you know, I'm no different than you, dude. But then when I looked at the facts, I went, okay, now I understand I screwed up and I'm going to fix my mistake. And I'm never going to do business with, you know, those, that type of a thing again. Instead, I'm going to put money in real investments than I have for the next 42 years. And it's worked out good for me. So I learned from my mistakes. Mistakes, but I wasn't paralyzed by them. And that's all I want you to do.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Yeah, I appreciate that. A great deal. I've just. I realized it when I've heard this and I've seen, like, the math and I've thought, what could I do with that? If I just put it in my cash value in my Roth and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, God, you just make so much more money here.

[Ken Coleman]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just so much. It's like it's a bazillion dollar difference.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Because I've seen the returns on those, and I'm like, wait a second. Yeah, I've been duped.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have been duped. You got Duke for sure. Yeah. And then. I'm not having a discussion with a doofus life insurance agent. No is a complete sentence.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, you are cashing this out. I'm not talking to you about it. We're closing the account. And you could just call the home office, give them the account number, and send them a letter to close the thing out. You don't even have to talk to Doofus. But if Doofus calls you, you don't have to have a conversation with him. You're not required. It's not federal law to discuss stuff with people who stole money from you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, and I think there's.

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think you have a fear of confrontation. If I had to bet.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I absolutely do. And I'm reading Dr. John's book and this is part of choosing reality and choosing freedom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's going to be a great exercise for you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It actually. And you said you started off the call saying, I need a gumption. I'm going to give you a tried and true formula. And Dave laid it out beautifully. Clarity, which is Dave telling you to go sit with Smartvestor Pro and look at the historical data. Not someone's opinion, not a sales pitch from a whole life salesperson, but historical data of the stock market. This is not debatable. That's clarity. Now watch. Clarity leads to confidence, which Dave mentioned. And in confidence, confidence leads to courage. That's the formula. Clarity gives me confidence and confidence gives me courage to step into confrontation, to step into a future that I want to make and not worry about what everybody else thinks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. My need to make that whole life agent happy is precisely negative 2000. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home. Scared doesn't even begin to cover it. But I got mad enough to change. I started God's and grandma's ways of handling money. That journey became the total money makeover, A plan everyday people can use to take control of their money. Millions have changed their lives following the plan in this book and found hope. Start your makeover [e-mail] store. Michael is with us in Minneapolis. Hey Michael, welcome to the show.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you, thank you. So to keep it brief and straightforward, I am 22. I currently came into a career job of making 25 an hour. And I come from a poverty lifestyle of bouncing around from homelessness, shelter, stuff like that. I've got a recent opportunity to live out here with my older sister and took advantage of it. They got me a career job. But now I'm in the situation of I'm making more money than what I'm used to and what I know what to do with, which is roughly around $4,000 a month. And to me that's a lot of money coming from the lifestyle with. But I also cannot learn to apparently budget my impulse control or my wants and eat and not to mention the around I'd probably say like a thousand and something dollars in debt for just my medical bills alone. And I'm here seeking advice on how to learn to budget and what I should do to maintain it because.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so proud of you. Well done, man. That's amazing. You've made huge straight strides. Look at how far you've come. I mean, $4,000 a month is never a problem you had before. Now it's a problem. I love this. Isn't that great?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it is. I really appreciate that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean that's great. I'm proud of. That's amazing. Good for you. All right, so all we got to do now is make this money behave. And the problem with my money and the problem with Michael's money is the guy in the market mirror. You've already identified that. You said it very clearly. If I can get the guy in my mirror to behave, I can be skinny and rich. But he eats too many donuts and spends all his money. You follow me?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it, man. So I mean that's everybody. And you're very wise and very self aware to say I've got to control the ownership of. Your words are fabulous. I've got to control my impulse and I have to make this money behave instead of I don't want to blow this opportunity. This is the first time I've started winning and I don't want to lose. That is amazing self awareness. You are in a really good spot, sir. So the way you do this is with a plan. Okay? And the plan is I'm going to write down before the month begins. In this case, I'm going to put it into an app called EveryDollar that I'm going to sign you up for and I'm going to pay for it. No code calls to you, okay? My gift, my gift. I want to be, I want to be part of your story because your story is awesome. So in the app you're going to give every dollar a name before the month begins. You are going to tell your money what to do before you get your money and then you're going to follow that plan like your freaking life depends on it. Because it's does. This is how you don't screw up and you put some money in there for fun. You got no overhead, you're living with your sister, it's not costing you anything. What's your over? You got $1,000 bill for medical. That's it. Right. You got to buy some gas for your car. You got a car?

[Ken Coleman]

I, I do. I've recently bought a car for 3,000. But I also as an agreement, what happens is I pay $1300 a month in rent and what my brother in law does, he puts it in a separate bank account that I don't have any control over. So when I move out, he gives me everything that I put into it back so I can go get my.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love your brother in law and sister. They're amazing. They are giving you a shot, man. Okay, so we got 4,000 minus 1,300. So I got 2,700 bucks I got to do something with. Right. Which I got to put gas in the car. Right. So there's an item in the budget I need to buy some food. There's an item in the budget I need to pay off the thousand dollars in debt. There's an item in the budget I need to have some fun. Hello. Is that okay?

[Ken Coleman]

I. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So where are you blowing your money now?

[Ken Coleman]

Budget more than anything. I'm going to be completely honest. It's more than likely the fact of my enjoyments. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What are you doing to enjoy it? What, what are you doing? What are you spending on?

[Ken Coleman]

I bought a PC payment and I bought a straight PC was 1200 bucks but instead of just paying it 12 out of pocket, I'm building my credit and put it on a, on like towards a credit card for a monthly payment and that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you bought a personal computer.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep. A gaming computer that I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So the enjoyment Is gaming.

[Ken Coleman]

Impulse comes in.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gaming. Okay. All right. So when you were at the poverty, in the poverty situation, homeless before, did you have any kind of an addiction problem?

[Ken Coleman]

I did not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good. Okay. So beware of gaming because it's an. It's a bottomless pit of time.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the good news is about that with my work, with my career, I worked seven days straight on rotating shifts. So every week I work a different shift and I work seven days straight and get two days off. So I don't have too much time to really game and get ridiculous.

[Dave Ramsey]

No one gets rich building their credit. So first thing we're gonna do is just pay that loan off too. I don't care if you build your credit. I don't want your credit built. I want you to pay cash and stack cash.

[Ken Coleman]

I appreciate that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I want to see how big a pile of cash we can stack while we have some fun. And some fun includes other human beings, not just gaming.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so like go out on a date or go out with the guys and have a beer or whatever that. Have a coffee. I don't care whatever it is. Okay. Plug into a good local church. There's some really good ones in the Minneapolis area. Okay. And start to build your spiritual life, your social life and your financial life simultaneously and create a real rhythm. Be careful who you choose to run around with because you're going to become them.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

So do you want to hang around disciplined people, people who are in control of their faculties or people who are drinking all weekend? Or are we going to hang around with drug heads? Are we going to hang around with. Because you're going to become who you hang around with. So choose that very carefully. And you have got just such a framework to go win. So we're going to put you into financial Peace University. I'm going to send you a copy of the total money makeover book. I'm going to put you in every dollar premium so that you can do all these things. But if you'll lay out that budget and then stick to it. 1300 to sister brother in law. Okay. Gas is this much. Food is this much. Fun is this much. I need to pay the PC off. I need to pay the medical bill off. I need to stack some cash and stack some cash and stack some some cash. I need some money to go out with my friends and you line item every one of the $4,000, where it's going to go before you get it in your hand and then when you get it in your hand In a sense, emotionally, it's already spent because you already spent it in this app. You've just got to execute.

[Ken Coleman]

That would help out a lot. I appreciate it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So you're happening to your money instead of your money happening to you. Okay. The people that become wealthy are the people that are proactive. They make the money behave rather than wondering where it went. And I know people that make 100, $200,000 a year don't know where their money went. They're just as broke as you. The differences are not even as self aware as you are.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Michael, is your sister or brother in law, are they disciplined and wise with money and you your opinion?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. So they currently were in the very similar situation and own a very nice house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, well, the reason I'm asking that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is they broke the poverty cycle. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so don't everything that Dave's giving you from advice to every dollar is great, but don't do this alone. And so absent of a wife, a spouse on this. Have your sister work with you on it. Your brother in law, he's been very helpful to you in the first 90 days of working this budget. Just get some accountability and somebody with a set of eyes on this and follow our baby steps, follow the plan and you're going to be fine. Second thing I would challenge you on, I'm not anti gaming at all. However, if you look at the data and you look at successful people, I'm going to challenge you to read at least half amount of time that you would normally spend gaming. Start reading books of people, people that inspire you, people you want to learn about. If you do that, I think you're going to see tremendous growth. So read, buy books, less games, split it in half and see what happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ooh, good one. Read biographies of successful people.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I just bought a new one on Mark Twain yesterday.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm reading it as well. Cherno. Yeah, yeah, I'm almost done with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fab. A guy I was with at dinner last night said I had to have it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's fabulous.

[Dave Ramsey]

I almost ordered it last night. Yeah. Wow. All right, there you go. See? Read about famous people.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's up, guys? George Camel here. If you've been thinking about making a real difference in your community, this is your moment. People are drowning in money stress right now and you can be the one who helps them by leading a Financial Peace University class. It's totally free for you and we hook you up with all the tools and support you need. So if you're ready to help People ditch debt, save money and actually sleep at night. Go to fpu.comlead to learn more. That's fpu.com lead.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you know that 2/3 of Americans die without a will? You're inviting the court, the lawyers and the public into your most personal part of your life. And they're going to be in control of what happens to your kids. Billionaire industrialist Howard Hughes, known as one of the richest men in the world, died April 1976 without a will. After Hughes death, over 600 people came forward claiming to have an interest in his fortune. In the end, a Judge decided the 2.5 billion would be split between 22 of Hughes's legal copy cousins in 1980. Three years later. Don't let the government decide what happens to your state. We want to challenge you to create your will in August. In less than five minutes. You can find out if an online will works for [e-mail] willquiz or click the link in the show notes. And if you want to find out an online will fits your situation, you can get 25% off when you use the promo code. Will month. That's one word. Will month. This is the month to do it. And at checkout during the month of August. Very cool. Randy is in Portland, Oregon. Hey Randy, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm really good, Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

You have no idea how much I wanted to hear that from you. Look, I've been a fan of yours for many years and I really appreciate what you guys do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, thank you, thank you. My wife and I want to buy a toy and specifically a conversion van. And we want to get your opinion about how to go about it. I can give you some details on my financial situation or you can just start asking questions. Whatever you prefer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what, how much is in your nest egg?

[Ken Coleman]

We have a net worth of about 2.3 million. 1.6 of that's in retirement. 401ks and Roths and the rest is in real estate, which is our house and we some land.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. Way to go man. How much of this did you inherit?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, none.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm 56 and my wife stopped aging at around 40.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are a smart man. Okay, and what's your household income?

[Ken Coleman]

So we have a combined income of about 175 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much non retirement money do you have?

[Ken Coleman]

How much non retirement money? You mean my house in real estate?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I mean like cash sitting around or an investment. That's not in a retirement account, cash sitting around.

[Ken Coleman]

We only probably have, well, we have about 60k in savings, but that includes part of our emergency funds.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have like a brokerage account or anything like that or just some mutual funds that are not in your retirement?

[Ken Coleman]

I do, but it's not that much. It's probably 20,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how much is the conversion van?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's a kicker. It's going to be about 110,120k. But the caveat to that is you don't have to spend all of that at once. You can buy the van, you know, like a stripped out van and then have it converted. But the two of those put together, you look at right around 120k. Um, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what do we want it for or need it for?

[Ken Coleman]

We really want to get on the road and travel around in conversion van. We've been, we've been looking at that lifestyle a lot and we really want to do it. And I, I, yeah, we want to do it sooner rather than later.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your plan to do it now?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that was a couple questions I had for you. I was thinking about. I think I know the answer to this, but I'm asking anyway. Would you, would it be unwise to stop retirement savings for about a year, a year and a half max, in order to build up cash for the purchase?

[Dave Ramsey]

Would that do it? You're not putting 110 in retirement in a year?

[Ken Coleman]

No, it would not do that. But I think between that and some savings money we had, we could at least buy the van portion of it and then start saving up for the conversion part of it as well. I'd love to do it all at once, but I really don't see it being financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is your wife financially, for real?

[Ken Coleman]

She, she says 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she have money in a 401k?

[Ken Coleman]

She does not. But she has it in a Roth. We have.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is in her Roth?

[Ken Coleman]

She's got about 80k in her Roth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Because she can cash that out with no penalty and no taxes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep, that's. That was one of my questions as well. So would that be smart? I don't know if that'd be smart to do it. That's why I wanted to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd rather not.

[Ken Coleman]

Not.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd rather not because that's going to grow tax free for the rest of her life and you can't put it back.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you had the van today, would you, are you working remotely? Would you just start doing this now and continue to Work?

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, I wouldn't know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what's the. Okay, so what's the timeline then?

[Dave Ramsey]

If you have to work, why would you buy it? And why don't you just buy it all at once and when you're ready to go?

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's what I'm asking.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, we'd rather, I, we really want to start traveling now. We really don't want to wait. And you know, it's, it's, it's a toy for us and I just, you know, Definitely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So number one, you can afford it. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just don't have the cash.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not, it's not out of line for your net worth. It's not a shocking purchase. It's not ridiculous, anything like that. We just, you just don't have enough liquid non retirement to get to it. Okay, so you're 56. Are you going to use this after 59 and a half?

[Ken Coleman]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you wait until then?

[Ken Coleman]

I could, yes, I could. We could, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

But you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, here. Okay, I'll tell you what I would do. Here's what I would do. Okay. You make 175,000 a year. I'm going to just pay. I'm going to spend some money on travel and enjoy the travel that I would have done with this van without the van by renting some ones or some RV rental program or whatever it is until a 59 and a half and then I'm gonna take enough out of your retirement and pay cash for it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, that sounds, that sounds good. I, Yeah, I was, I was trying to get options on what to do and I really never thought of that portion of it, the waiting part.

[Dave Ramsey]

But here's an interesting thing too. Sometimes when people are getting ready to buy a vacation house, a beach house, a lake house or whatever, I asked them to rent one for a week or a month and see if you're really going to use it. Right. And so if you go rent this rv, you may learn it will inform the design of the one you finally purchase. You'll find things about the RV that you hate or the entire experience that you hate and you thought you were going to love.

[Ken Coleman]

I see. Yeah. Okay. I never really looked at it that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And I have known people to rent a beach house and say, I never want to go back. And they don't never buy, you know, and I've known people to do that with ski houses in the mountains and lake houses as well. So. Because it's, it's, you know, that per use, you can rent this cheaper throughout the rest of your life than own it, Correct?

[Ken Coleman]

That would be correct, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so I'm okay with you just renting it for while and then deciding the design based on your learnings.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's where I was going with that line of question. Until you can go all in, in other words, he has to work and he can't work remote. So he can't go all in. In other words, enough to justify this purchase at this point. So that's where I was headed. But I love the idea of renting and let's go ahead and travel while we can. But he's limited in how he can travel anyway with a full time job.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's interesting is, I mean you could, I mean cheaper than we're talking about. You can charter a freaking jet cheaper than we're talking about.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, and so depending on where you're going. But you can do a lot of stuff here. So I'm not suggesting that, but I am just saying it's interesting to me what you can get into and you know, what you can purchase a jet for versus charter a jet. You know that and forms you. You know that's right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And over a three year period he can save a lot more. Plus the roth, you know what I mean? So it gives him a Runway.

[Dave Ramsey]

Leave her Roth alone.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, let's leave that thing alone, let it grow. And then if we're going to do it out of retirement, let's take it out of his because he's probably got some traditional.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know what I'd love to see? I'd love to see you and Sharon do a van trip conversion band. Dave and Sharon driving over the continental U.S. why?

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't like me?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, I just think just seeing you two in a conversion van for some reason just made me laugh.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. Because. Because it, because it's. Cuz you know, I would be in hell.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know both of you too well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sharon and I will be like, no.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No chance you make it through three states.

[Dave Ramsey]

No chance. No chance. When I go through Arkansas, When I go through Arkansas and it starts going, I'll be done.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh gosh, I don't know why that popped in my twisted head.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your head is twisted.

[Ken Coleman]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's going to get twisted right off your neck if you keep it up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. I hope I'm back. I hope I make it to the next segment.

[Ken Coleman]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day is Exodus 15:13. If you're unfailing in Your unfailing love, you will lead the people you have redeemed in your strength. You will guide them to your holy dwelling. Zig Ziglar said lack of direction, not lack of time, is the problem. We all have 24 hour days. George is in New Jersey. Hi, George. How are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

So my family owns a business. It's a hotel. I've been working for them for five years now out of college. I have a degree in entrepreneurship. And recently I had a talk with my mom, who's a business owner, about a raise. I make a little over 60,000 right now in New Jersey. Houses cost a lot, especially in the county we're in. And she essentially told me she can't give me the raise to be where I can afford a house, which is understandable, but I'm. My next question to her was, what is the time frame for me to inherit the business? Because it was always spoken of. And I don't believe I'm at that point right now. Maybe in five to six years I can see myself doing that. I'm 28 years old. And essentially she said basically not until she passes away. She's 66. So that could be 20 to 30 years, 25 years. So in other words, I don't know if I want to stay and put my heart into it or if I should leave and find another job where I can make more than what I'm making.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you should leave.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is not good for you. You have the ability to make 100 a year. You're being underpaid. If you're underpaid by 40,000 a year for the next 20 years, the hotel's not free.

[Ken Coleman]

Definitely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your mom's not got a situation that that is. Has enough to feed both families. They're not making enough to feed both families. So they're going to have to run it another way. She could pay somebody else 60 to do the job.

[Ken Coleman]

Probably, yes. And also this is. She has two preschools, so those were her main source of income, which it paid for, like my family's finances and everything. And then it was my dad's business, the hotel, and then she took over. So this was kind of like their extra money, essentially.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, but she doesn't want to. She doesn't want to share it right now. And it's hers. That's her oblique. That's her option. But she told you that. She told you the gang and you, you know, it's a fair response. She's the owner. She gets to decide that. But it also doesn't work for you. So I'm not mad at your mom, and I don't want you to be mad at her. I don't think she did anything wrong, but you know, she's not incentivizing you to stay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why were you puzzled when Dave said what he said? Because I was under the impression, the way you worded the question, that that was the way you were leaning. Is that you. You should leave. Is that true or false?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's.

[Ken Coleman]

It's true in a sense, but from a kid, like, essentially, my mom gives me the responsibility of doing owner stuff. Like, if a pipe breaks, I'm there. Which I'm currently managing the business. So if it breaks out like two in the morning, I'm there. We had bricks fall from the side of the building on there. I'm in charge of getting quotes, and she has me deal with the DP when they come. Come and stuff like that. And when I.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're just a manager. That's what a manager does.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So your response is curious to me. So you know that there's no future. And what Dave said is spot on. And that's the way you were leaning. And when I challenged you on it, you just kind of went, a little misdirection. So what is the real emotion of cutting ties with this? Because there's something there you need to identify. And. And I think you know what it is, is. What is it?

[Ken Coleman]

My grandfather came from Greece and built a business, and I don't want to, like, give up the family legacy. I kind of feel obligated to stay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, let me ask a question. If you were to move on and go do your own thing, are you not still, or do you forfeit the inheritance?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I don't. She said I can always come back to it later on in life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Then I'm with Dave 100%. You're. There's no risk.

[Dave Ramsey]

I come back when she does, and I own it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you. And you keep your grandfather's legacy alive. I love your answer, but you. There's nothing in this conversation or in the terms that make this a risk. So I'm with Dave 100%. Go do your thing, man. Go build something. Go learn how to do something. And.

[Ken Coleman]

And.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And fly, man. Stretch and grow. And then, a, mom may change your mind. We don't. We don't know. And B, if it is 30 years from now, the legacy continues, and you've gone out and prepared yourself to really grow this thing or do something special with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. One of the things I've told my kids and in writing in the trust and in the estate documents is do not keep something around just because the old man started it. I don't want my kids chained to a legacy of stuff. I want them chained to a legacy of principles. And the principles are we run a business that serves people and serves the family simultaneously. But please don't keep something around because the old man. I don't want my kids saying what you just said about your grandpa. I don't think your grandpa wanted you to say that. I don't think he wants you to work for less than you could earn in order to keep open something that he started 50 years years ago. That was not his reason for starting it. His reason for starting it was to create prosperity for the family and. But not to chain his grandkids to something that was where they were being underpaid. That was not his intent. I'd be shocked if he said that, wouldn't you?

[Ken Coleman]

Very.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. So I think you've already. I think your mom has said her piece. And you say, mom, I'm gonna go ahead and give you some notice so you can start looking for a new manager because I'm gon start looking for something where I can afford a house and you're my mom. I love you. I'll always be there. I'll try to help you any way I can. But I can't do this anymore. It's not working for me. And it doesn't work for you to have a different arrangement. And I understand that. And so I'm accepting your decision. And I'm going to based on that, in about 30 days, I'll be gone.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then I want you to put your heart and soul into it while you're still there. Be the best version of George, the best version of you you've ever been as a manager. And in the meantime, go get something where you're making 100k, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Definitely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And I think you can, don't you?

[Ken Coleman]

Definitely. I. I mean, this gave me a lot of experience of managing a business and employees and inventory and finances and everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm not sure she can replace you for 60.

[Ken Coleman]

She can. She doesn't even know how to check somebody in.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean, if she hired somebody to do all that, I'm not sure she could hire that position. Yeah, that's on call for pipes busting, bricks falling, and checking people in 24 seven for 60 grand in New Jersey. I'm not sure she can. She might, but I'm not sure she can. So maybe this is her way. Wake up call. Is the business profit, the hotel profitable?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's she putting in her pocket? You're seeing the books, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Um, she really doesn't put too much in her pocket from it, so it's not that profitable. Well, she's mostly taking the money and reinvesting it into the place and redoing hallways and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, so it's not that profitable.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

By the time she does renovations that are required to keep the thing running, it's not really making profit. So it might not be a good business to own. Right. I mean, if she has to pay somebody 100 grand instead of 60, she's going to be losing money. So I'm not sure she's got a great business there that. I'm not sure. You want this thing at the end, end of the day. So maybe you want something else. Maybe we sell it and we get something else or something. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The clear thing I'm walking away with, George, is you don't want to be there based on the circumstances. You don't need to be there based on this desire to maybe honor your grandfather's legacy. So move on and let's see how the chips fall.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I think it's gonna be fine. And. But again, let's give her plenty of notice. Pour yourself into it during the notice. Give her plenty, plenty of time to redo this. But she doesn't make enough on the hotel to pay you 100.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Probably not.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what she's saying. I mean, I think she. I think that's probably right. He saw the book. See, they're putting everything back into car.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right. Things run down. It's getting tired. It's got to have some Renault. And that makes sense. That's logical. Wow. Harsh. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimate, ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace. Christ Jesus.