Quit Beating Yourself Up for Your Money Mistakes

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – Episode: "Quit Beating Yourself Up for Your Money Mistakes"

Date: [Assumed Broadcast Date]
Host: George Camel and Dr. John Deloney
Title: Quit Beating Yourself Up for Your Money Mistakes

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, hosts George Camel and Dr. John Deloney engage with listeners grappling with various financial challenges. The overarching theme centers on overcoming past monetary mistakes, establishing financial freedom, and making informed decisions to build wealth while maintaining healthy relationships. The hosts provide personalized advice to callers, blending financial principles with empathetic understanding.

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Caller Insights and Host Advice

1. Calvin from Tulsa, Oklahoma: Defining Financial Freedom

Situation:
Calvin, a 25-year-old general manager at Chick-fil-A, seeks guidance on achieving financial freedom. With a combined household income of approximately $130,000, he aims to eliminate debt and invest wisely to ensure a worry-free financial future.

Discussion Highlights:

• Defining Financial Freedom: Calvin equates financial freedom to living without debt and having the ability to give generously without financial strain.
  "Financial freedom means for me is not worrying about anything. I worry about any debts, not worrying about payments..." [02:35]

• Setting Specific Goals: Dr. Deloney emphasizes the importance of specific, tangible financial goals over vague aspirations.
  "What does freedom feel like for you? I mean what, what is it tangibly?" [04:02]

• Strategic Planning: George suggests budgeting based on personal income and allocating funds towards debt repayment and investment.
  "Budget for it. Spend less than that, and if you owe debts, pay those off and then get to zero and then begin to save..." [06:36]

Advice Given:

• Clarify Goals: Define what financial freedom looks like in specific terms (e.g., being debt-free, saving a certain amount).
• Budgeting: Maintain a budget that allows living below means, allocating a portion for debt repayment and investing.
• Avoid Chasing Feelings: Focus on measurable milestones rather than emotional satisfaction from wealth.

2. Richard from St. Cloud, Minnesota: Mortgage Payoff vs. Investing

Situation:
Richard owns a house with a remaining mortgage of $79,000 at a low interest rate (1.875% for a ten-year term) and an emergency fund covering six months' expenses. He contemplates whether to pay off his mortgage aggressively or start investing with the funds available.

Discussion Highlights:

• Compound Growth: George underscores the benefits of investing early due to compound interest.
  "Compound growth is our best friend when it comes to our nest egg." [05:31]

• Balancing Act: The hosts discuss the trade-offs between paying off debt and investing, recommending a balanced approach.
  "I would have the latitude to do a catch-up contribution... what would be off my shoulders as far as the mortgage for sure..." [14:08]

• Avoiding Paralysis: Emphasizing the importance of taking action rather than being overwhelmed by options.
  "I just don't want you to get stuck in this paralysis analysis mode where we don't do anything..." [06:36]

Advice Given:

• Split Strategy: Allocate a portion of income to both investing and paying off the mortgage to harness compound growth while reducing debt.
• Long-Term Planning: Consider future financial stability and the benefits of reducing expenses by eliminating mortgage payments ahead of retirement.

3. Stefan from Charlotte, North Carolina: Balancing Work and Parenting

Situation:
Stefan, a truck driver with entrepreneurial experience, faces financial instability after personal losses. Living in his semi-truck with his daughter residing in Maryland, he seeks advice on managing finances to ensure a stable family life.

Discussion Highlights:

• Prioritizing Family: Dr. Deloney stresses the importance of being physically present for his daughter over financial pursuits.
  "Kids need their dads is what I'm telling you." [24:13]

• Financial Flexibility: George advises setting clear financial goals to enable a potential move and stabilize family life.
  "Your A1 is the emergency fund... your next A1 would be retirement 15%..." [27:05]

• Emotional Support: Addressing Stefan's emotional turmoil and encouraging proactive steps to improve his situation.
  "You're allowed to be mad at... quit beating yourself up over that?" [57:41]

Advice Given:

• Emergency Fund: Establish a robust emergency fund to provide financial security during transitions.
• Savings and Investments: Encourage saving significant amounts monthly to prepare for future needs, such as paying off the mortgage and investing.
• Personal Presence: Prioritize being physically present with family members, ensuring emotional connections are maintained alongside financial planning.

4. Robert from Chicago: Managing a 0% Interest Car Loan

Situation:
Robert and his wife purchased a car with a 0% interest loan during the COVID-19 pandemic. With an annual income of approximately $200,000 and significant savings, Robert wonders if they should pay off the 0% loan or continue as is, considering the opportunity cost of not investing the funds.

Discussion Highlights:

• Opportunity Cost: George highlights that even with a 0% loan, the dealership benefits from financing, suggesting it's advantageous to pay off the loan early.
  "The dealerships are going to make their money... what you're doing is paying them top dollar." [44:55]

• Financial Discipline: Encourages Robert to sell newer cars to eliminate depreciating assets and redirect funds toward investments.
  "I'd get rid of the loan. And the truth with these 0% loans is that they charge you top dollar." [44:55]

• Future Financial Planning: Emphasizes building investment habits to ensure long-term wealth accumulation.
  "You're going to have $5.4 million. And if you're in traditional, you've got to pay taxes on that money as you withdraw it." [70:56]

Advice Given:

• Loans vs. Investments: Favor paying off loans, even with zero interest, to eliminate financial obligations and free up cash flow for investments that yield higher returns.
• Asset Management: Advise against purchasing brand-new cars due to immediate depreciation; instead, opt for slightly used vehicles to preserve financial resources.

5. Madison from Hartford, Connecticut: Early Career Financial Decisions

Situation:
Madison, a 24-year-old nurse, is grappling with student debt and a car loan while managing a high yield savings account and anticipating a $100,000 inheritance. She seeks advice on prioritizing debt repayment versus investing, and understanding pre-tax versus Roth retirement contributions.

Discussion Highlights:

• Debt vs. Investing: George advises prioritizing debt repayment to eliminate interest obligations and enhance financial flexibility.
  "I would pause all investing until you knock out all of this debt for two reasons... it'll give you back 6% of your annual income to tackle the debt faster." [76:34]

• Retirement Contributions: Encourages maximizing retirement contributions post-debt repayment, emphasizing the benefits of Roth accounts for tax-free growth.
  "I would personally go Roth... it's going to grow tax free and you can withdraw it tax free." [78:15]

• Emergency Fund: Clarifies the importance of maintaining a separate emergency fund while allocating other funds towards debt repayment and investing.
  "So you're telling me right now... that you could put away $3,400 a month into a savings account?" [27:55]

Advice Given:

• Debt Elimination First: Focus on paying off high-interest debts before committing additional funds to investments.
• Roth vs. Pre-Tax: Opt for Roth retirement accounts to benefit from tax-free growth and withdrawals in retirement.
• Future Planning: Post-debt, allocate a substantial portion of income towards consistent investing to capitalize on compound interest over time.

6. Ann from Boston, Massachusetts: Coping with Debt and Loss

Situation:
Ann, aged 63, recently lost her husband and accumulated $37,000 in credit card debt. With $1.1 million in her retirement account and two pensions, she seeks advice on whether to pay off the credit card debt using her retirement funds or continue repaying it with her current income.

Discussion Highlights:

• Emotional Financial Decisions: Dr. Deloney acknowledges the emotional strain of financial decisions following personal loss and emphasizes self-compassion.
  "Can I tell you something else?... quit beating yourself up over that?" [57:38]

• Debt Repayment Strategy: George recommends using future income to repay debt to reinforce disciplined financial habits rather than tapping into retirement funds.
  "I would encourage you to cut them up after. So from a math standpoint, you could take retirement money and pay this off today and be done with it... but I want you to feel that more." [55:44]

• Building Resilience: Encourages Ann to view debt repayment as a gift to herself, fostering financial independence and peace of mind.
  "You're an amazing 62 year old woman... This is not a punishment to Anne because she's made bad decisions. This is a gift to herself." [60:10]

Advice Given:

• Use Present Income for Debt: Continue repaying debt with current income to maintain financial discipline and avoid disrupting retirement savings.
• Emotional Support: Acknowledge and validate feelings of grief and financial guilt, encouraging self-forgiveness and forward movement.
• Maintain Retirement Funds: Preserve retirement savings for future stability, using disciplined income strategies for debt elimination.

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Additional Segments and Promotions

Throughout the episode, brief promotional segments are seamlessly integrated, endorsing products like the Timothy Plan for biblically responsible investing, BetterHelp for online therapy, NetSuite for business management, and various Ramsey-branded resources and tours. These segments are informative yet distinct from the primary content of listener calls and financial advice.

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Conclusion

"The Ramsey Show" episode titled "Quit Beating Yourself Up for Your Money Mistakes" provides a compassionate yet firm approach to addressing financial woes rooted in past mistakes. Through real-life scenarios, hosts George Camel and Dr. John Deloney offer actionable advice tailored to individual circumstances, emphasizing the importance of clear financial goals, disciplined budgeting, debt elimination, and strategic investing. The episode underscores the message that financial stability is attainable through informed decisions and sustained effort, irrespective of previous financial missteps.

Listeners are encouraged to adopt proactive financial behaviors, seek clarity in their financial aspirations, and utilize available resources to navigate their monetary challenges effectively. The episode serves as a testament to the show's commitment to empowering individuals to build wealth and achieve financial peace.

Transcript

[George Camel]

From the Ramsey Network. This is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We' and your money. And hopefully if we do our jobs, we'll give you the right next step to take. Calvin is up first in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Calvin, welcome to the Ramsey Show. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I am doing a lot of research on you guys and this is hold the whole Ramsey method.

[George Camel]

Be careful.

[Caller]

Do what now?

[George Camel]

I just said be careful. I'm just kidding around. I'm joshing. What are you doing research for?

[Caller]

Well, so right now I want to be financially free. I'm a Christian. I'm very full in depth with that. Money is the happiness or basic level of money is rid of all evil, but money itself is not evil. I come from a family where my parents had a very large income, but they did not use it correctly at all, didn't manage it well, and they were in debt for practically their own life. I think it just got a debt last year. And now that I'm about to be married, I'm married to a beautiful family where they have zero debt and they have a really low income and they are doing really well off. And so my fiance is used to that lifestyle and I'm used to the other lifestyle now. The current job I am right now I'm a general manager of Chick Fil a and more in southeastern Oklahoma. And I make pretty good living for 25. I actually moved from South Georgia to pursue this career and what both of us put together, we'll probably make roughly around 130,000 a year. For us being a single movement that is pretty outstanding promotional around this area. And the reason I'm doing research because I know we can set a lot of money back to be financially free within probably less than 10 years.

[George Camel]

What does financially free mean for you?

[Caller]

Financial free means for me is not worrying about anything. I worry about any debts, not worrying about payments, not worrying just so let's.

[George Camel]

Get crystal clear on what the goal is. Is it I want to be debt free, including my house.

[Caller]

I mean, that could be one of our goals. Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What are you aiming for?

[Caller]

I'm aiming for to be financially pledged to give generously without having to think about it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So a challenge you're going to have psychologically speaking is not being very specific and acknowledging when you cross certain thresholds and Then checking yourself in your new marriage or five years from now, your five year old marriage and saying, okay, let's re examine these goals. Let's reexamine how these goals feel to us. Because what you're going to do based on what you're doing right now is you're chasing a feeling. And you are going to be a lonely miserable guy with $10 million. You're going to be an operator making a million bucks a year and you're going to be miserable to be around because you're chasing how something's going to feel. I'd much rather you say I want to be able to tip really well every time we go out to eat. Cool. I want to be able to save for my kids college and not worry about it and possibly start a scholarship for somebody else in our neighborhood. Cool. So be specific with us. What does freedom feel like for you? I mean what, what is it tangibly?

[Caller]

What is it freedom itself?

[George Camel]

Well, you're saying 10 years. So at 35 years old. Let's fast forward. Calvin is debt free, including no mortgage payment. That's a good feeling. And then what do you want to be able to retire because you have $2 million in a nest egg. That's the kind of specificity that will help us help you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or I can tip at Waffle House any number. And I don't worry about it. Dave Ramsey could give me a million dollars in cash and he wouldn't notice it. So like be specific.

[Caller]

I guess the specific answers on what I'm looking for or what I'm trying to say is that I want to be able to invest my money.

[George Camel]

In.

[Caller]

Any way, shape or form. And to be even more specific is to not having to worry about my family or most of my wife happened to work and being a traditional home.

[George Camel]

Well, you'll be there. I mean you're talking about getting out of debt. How much debt do you have?

[Caller]

Zero.

[George Camel]

Okay, so why aren't you living that right now? You guys, you said you're making great money as long as you live on less than you make. You're on a written budget every month. You and your wife are on the same page. I don't see why this dream doesn't happening today.

[Caller]

That's. Well, that's the thing is I've been doing research on how David Ramsey. David, Mr. Ramsey himself is set the boundaries. Because I mean last night we talked about this. Me. Oh, well, she's not my wife yet, but she will be in six months. The fiance, obviously. I know we're not tied to anything financial as of right now, because technically, she is my wife. Obviously, we're both pursuing that now and setting up so when we are married, we're not shocked of finances or anything. And having those conversations now.

[George Camel]

Okay? That's why this is a future thing you're looking at instead of a present, because you're not married yet. So here's what's going to happen. If you want your wife to be able to stay home, you need to budget based off of your personal income. So if you're saying that's 130 grand, how much do we take home after taxes, after investing 15%, great. We have to learn how to live on that. Can we live off of eight grand a month? I think the answer for your lifestyle is probably going to be yes. And how much can we allocate to giving? Outside of that, how much can we allocate to getting our house paid off? That's when you start to balance all these things over a long period of time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you're asking this magic question, I. I've been doing research on Dave Ramsey. That means you've been watching a lot of YouTube and Googling and probably reading Reddit, right? Which for a guy who spent 20 years in. In the academy, that's not research, that's just Googling. But fine. The core message of Dave Ramsey is live on less than you make and give a whole bunch of money away and enjoy some of your life and be able to exhale when you put your head on your pillow. And if that doesn't resonate with you, that's the core message. If you're like, no, no, no, no, that's too simple. When you get into the nuts and bolts and where to put your money and your funds, the core Ramsey message is live on less than you make. And when you have access, give. Dave says generously. I like to save recklessly. I like to just be able to just give. Right? And that can be money, that can be time, that can be in spirit, that can be. I've got a crazy week this week. Just 15 minutes ago, I asked George, hey, can you run? Can you drive the shows, what we say? And he's like, I got you, dude. Like, it's a spirit of right. It's a. It's a ethos. It's a way we. We enter into the world. We exist in the world. That's it, man. And if you and your wife choose for a season for you both to work, great. And if you have a dream of marrying somebody you want her to stay at home. You'd love to have your wife stay at home and raise kids. That. If you are able to have kids. Cool.

[George Camel]

Great.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Y'all discuss that. And. But it's this. I don't. I'm researching a plan. It's not about researching a plan. Live on less than you make. And George saying, like, you make a budget and you know how much money you make. Budget for it. Spend less than that, and if you owe debts, pay those off and then get to zero and then begin to save and begin to allocate and begin to delay gratification until you can pay for it in cash.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And right now, Calvin, it sounds like you're running from the existence you had growing up with your parents.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's what it is.

[George Camel]

And we want you to run to something specific, not just away from. I don't want to be broke like my parents did, making good money. That's not going to be you. You've already decided. That's a choice you get to make. And I have full faith you'll do that. So hang on the line. Calvin, I want to send you my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It'll walk you through that and help you set those very specific money goals so that you can have that financial freedom. This is the Ramsey Show. Okay, here's the hard truth.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Your investment dollars could be winding up.

[George Camel]

In the pockets of companies that hold.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Positions you don't agree with.

[George Camel]

People are unknowingly putting money into tech giants and household brands that don't match up with their core values. But here's good news. Timothy Plan is at the forefront of biblically respons investing. That means Timothy Plan uses a strategy that lets investors chase competitive returns while staying rock solid in their beliefs.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So if you're ready to invest with.

[George Camel]

A clean conscience, it's time to check out Timothy Plan. Request [e-mail] to learn more or contact your financial advisor today to see if Timothy Plan is right for you. Timothyplan.com investing includes risk, including possible loss of principle. Before investing, carefully consider a fund's investment objective.

[Dave Ramsey]

Risk, charges and expenses contained in the prospectus or summary Prospectus available at timothyplan.com Read carefully before investing.

[George Camel]

Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners Limited and ETFs distributed by Forsyth Fund Services, LLC. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Well, 50 days of Christmas deals are happening right now. Perfect for those looking for great deals. Without overspending this holiday season. So whether you're shopping for yourself or you're looking for the perfect gift to help someone get their money in order, now is the time to shop. You can get up to 30% off on our best selling products. Breaking Free from Broke. My book is on sale for the very first time because it just released this past January. This is a great option for parents to gift young adult kids or if there's someone you know. This is great for anyone, but if you're in your 20s and 30s, this book's really gonna hit. I'll expose the money myths and traps around credit cards, student loans and mortgage traps and show you a more peaceful path to build wealth. Speaking of building building a non anxious Life, my friend Dr. John DeLoney's book 30% off.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That was a great radio transition.

[George Camel]

You like that?

[Dr. John Deloney]

That was outstanding.

[George Camel]

And anxiety is everywhere. I just talked to a young man out in the lobby. John's got 58 cents in his checking account. This young teen, that gives me anxiety thinking about it. And so if you want help with this, John will walk you through the six daily choices to create a more peaceful and joyful life. We've got John's questions for humans decks. Just 12 bucks for the classic ones there we got couples, friends, parents and kids additions. Go check them out Ramsaysolutions.com store or if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Richard is in St. Cloud, Minnesota. Up next, what's going on? Richard.

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I'm in a place where I've never been before, where I have no debt other than the what remains on the principal of my house. I have nothing invested but I do have my six month emergency fund. I've spoken with a smartvestor pro and I'm comfortable with them. But I'm wondering, I can pay off what I have remaining on my house of 79,000 in 30 months or I can start investing. What would be the point of investing if I can pay off the house? I kind of like the weight of that off of me.

[George Camel]

That is true. But we also need to realize that compound growth is our best friend when it comes to our nest egg. And right now you don't have a lot of time between you and retirement. When are you looking to retire?

[Caller]

I like what I'm doing and as long as I can do it, I don't plan to retire.

[George Camel]

But do you have a pension or something? Let's say your body says I can. Okay, so at 70 years old. How are you going to pay the bills if you don't have anything invested.

[Caller]

With the Social Security?

[George Camel]

Do you know what that payment will be? Because the average payment is about 1700 bucks.

[Caller]

Well, I currently work full time, well mostly full time and I also receive Social Security disability and then that will switch to standard Social Security automatically at age 67. And presently between the disability and income, I have a take home of 4500amonth. Okay. My house payment is 1377. As I said, I have 79,000 principal left. I refi'd when it was in the basement. So that's at a 1.875 10 year which if I stayed on course would be paid off in 31.

[George Camel]

So here's what if you did this, what if you split the difference and you invested, you have catch up contributions you can take advantage of at this age and you began paying off the house and that way as you enter retirement you've got one less expense by paying off the house. I don't know that we need to go full on on one of them because you're going to free up that payment. If you pay it off now or you'll pay it off in the next 30 months, that's about almost three years. And then beyond that you'll free up a payment. You could then invest. So either way we're going to make a trade off here. But I like the plan of you getting into the habit of investing to build that muscle because for 60 years we haven't. What did your Smartvestor Pro say? I'm guessing they were on the side of investing.

[Caller]

They were on the side of investing and I would have the latitude to do a catch up contribution for 2024 up to the 8,000 mark and then do 8,000 in 2025 as well. I my thought is for what? Investing for a two and a half year period and what might be built in that or may not be built in that period. But what would be off the off my shoulders as far as the mortgage for sure in that period. I'm wondering what the nominal difference would be as far as a buildup or loss or a definite payoff.

[George Camel]

Yeah, you can crunch the numbers with your smartvestor Pro. I just don't want you to get stuck in this paralysis analysis mode where we don't do anything because you know the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today. And so I'd rather see some action. And if that means making an extra payment a year on the house right now while aggressively investing. That's fine. And eventually if you go, hey, I got to retire soon, let's get this house paid off, we can switch gears. What do you think, John? There's not a very clear, you've got to do this or this. The baby steps would say, let's put 15% of our income away in retirement. Anything beyond that, let's throw at the house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. I, man, this is tough because I am probably, of the Ramsey personalities, I'm probably the one that's most debt allergic.

[George Camel]

Like Deloney's, like, get the house paid off.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So, dude, I, the idea of, I'm trying to think of my dad. If my dad called and said I'm going to be 63 and I could have 25,000 bucks in retirement, I've got zero dollars. And I, I've. You've probably looked up and googled the Social Security clock the same as everybody else in America and watching that sucker tick and see what's supposed to be in 2030 and 2035. And so I would not hang any hats on Social Security. At the same time, the thought of being 62 or 63 and having nobody could take my house. Right. I can see that for me personally being a really compelling option. My concern with you, even if Social Security went, didn't.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

My concern is, as George mentioned, and it sounds like you've had disability. Sounds like you, it sounds like you've had, you've been fighting some battles over the last 20, 30 years. Right.

[Caller]

Yeah. Well. And it's foolish combination of foolishness, frivolity, medical necessity with my wife who passed, and then a long term relationship who recently passed. So it's now it's just me and the house is half paid off. And like I said, I've never been at this point before. Yeah. So it's, it, you know, it feels like I should get out from under it and have that for sure. 30 months on the other side, freedom as opposed to 30 months investing. And see, it feels like it would be kind of pennies of possible accumulation and investing as opposed to, you know, a real solid asset that's free and clear.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I got you on that. No, I mean, I track with you. My gut, My gut tells me the same thing. Totally get where you're, where you're at.

[George Camel]

How much could you invest a month right now?

[Caller]

Probably 2000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let me do some quick number crunching for you. From 60 to 70, you invest 2000 bucks, you would have 433 grand, let's say you started at 63 because you wanted to get the house paid off first, Right.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

That would then give you 250 grand. So you got a 170 grand difference there.

[Dr. John Deloney]

At what. At what year would that mature?

[George Camel]

Well, it's just compound growth over those seven years versus ten years of investing two grand. And again, you'd be investing more because you free up the payments. You'd be investing three grand instead. That's 377. You still didn't catch up to those first three years of investing that then had time for compound growth to work its magic. That's why I feel like getting started early, getting some money in there, working that muscle, getting used to investing, and then focusing on the house. You could split the difference, but either way, you've got to get investing. I don't want to rely on just Social Security to be able to pay the bills the rest of my life. And so I want you to have somewhat of a nest egg to help cushion that. With Social Security, what do you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What do you do for a living, brother?

[Caller]

I do security. And it's. It's a good position, it's a good company, and I enjoy what I do. And it's, you know, it's. It's not going anywhere unless the place burns down, pretty much.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is there a possibility, and I'm trying to be on your team here. Is there a possibility that for 18 months you could just go ba na nas, just go bananas and work extra shifts and work overtime and get this thing off your chest?

[Caller]

No, because the Social Security disability has a earnings limit, and I would need to be pulling 100 hours a week to do that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Camel]

Dang. Well, I'd probably split the difference. I want to see you get to investing and build a habit and anything else we can throw in the house, let's get that knocked out in the next five years. Let's set a real clear goal and get to it. My man. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible air. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance.

[George Camel]

When you have to think through, how.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Am I going to pay my bills.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the middle next week.

[George Camel]

Yeah. In the middle of all that grief, like, it's just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It is it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one.

[Caller]

Thing, especially as a mom with three.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Little kids that I'm like so big.

[Caller]

On for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

[George Camel]

I'm George Camel and sit next to me is Dr. John DeLoney. Stefan joins us up next in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's going on, Stephan?

[Caller]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

I am, I am in a weird position. I lost everything and I am driving a semi truck, working for a really big company and I've been in trucks for a lot of years now. I'll say about five years. I made a lot of money in entrepreneurship, but I handled it wrong. I had a four year old daughter, I have a four year old daughter and when I had her four years ago, I just was trying to make money and get rich and I just didn't handle money right. I just, I think from just generational curses, no one in my family has been able to really get past poverty. I was chasing, chasing money and getting past poverty. But the more I try to not be like that, I found myself getting evicted the same way and losing any amount of money that I have. So I'm kind of positioned where I just want to, I want to get ahead and I want to do money right. I want to do money God's way. Not just get Rick, get, get rich quick, but something that sustains and something that, you know, I can give consistently, I can tie consistently. I can just be a better father. And yeah, so that's where I'm at. And like I said, I have no bills right now, which I kind of see is a good thing, kind of being positive about it. But I know I could be a millionaire.

[George Camel]

And I just, how do, how does one have no Bills?

[Caller]

Well, with, outside of, like, when I say no bills, I mean like no major overhead, vehicle payments, house payments, rent or anything, right?

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

No.

[George Camel]

No debt. You're not renting. Where are you living?

[Dr. John Deloney]

In his truck.

[Caller]

In my semi. Truck?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Hey, Stephanie.

[Caller]

PD coming up in February.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can I tell you how proud I am that you're making this call? That's a hard thing for you to have just said out loud that you told me and George in it. What I'm witnessing here is maybe the highest form of bravery, which is a man who loves his kid and wants to do right and wants to do something different. And it's not even as much as change your family tree, but you want to go till a new plot of ground and plant a new tree because it starts with you. And you shot out of the cannon for five years and it went sideways on you. And it's real easy to fall back into old patterns in the neighborhoods we grew up in. And it's real, real hard to stand tall and make a phone call and say, I'm stuck. Can I just shout you out and say, I'm proud of you, man.

[Caller]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If more men would make the phone call you made today to their friends, to their neighbors, to their counselor, to their, to their ministers, the world would change it within the week. But they won't. But you did. And I'm proud of you. Okay. Where's your daughter right now?

[Caller]

She lives in Maryland with her mom.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How. Why aren't you in Maryland with, with doing what you can down the street to be in her life.

[Caller]

So long story short, ministry here in Charlotte. Me and her mom met in Charlotte where we went to school together. And I just, I prayed about it. Prayed about it. We prayed about it. We co parent with God in the middle of it too. You can be in that. And we just believe that I'm supposed to still be here, attached to the ministry that I'm at.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think you're supposed to be attached to your daughter. My brother as well.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, listen to me.

[Caller]

I haven't heard God say leave.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Maybe, maybe he's talking through me. You need to go be down the street from your daughter. And here's why. I spent my career with 18 to 25 year old young men and women whose moms and dads had quote unquote, different calls in their life that didn't include them. And I'm not saying that you don't work. I am saying you go find what you got to do to be in your daughter's. Life so that she sees her dad.

[Caller]

Can I throw this at you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

You throw anything you want. That's right.

[Caller]

Her mom. Her mom, they moved back home when she had. When she. To Maryland, when she had. When she had Raylan, my daughter. Now they're actually looking to move back to Charlotte. That was another part of it. She was always ready to go back to Charlotte. Scouting her own two feet, too.

[George Camel]

When is that happening?

[Caller]

Within the next year. I will say that happily. That's one thing that kept me, you know, keep you going. Because it isn't easy co parenting far away, by far. It's really hard.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't want to be a jerk, man. But you're not. You're not doing much co parenting. How old is this little girl?

[Caller]

My baby's four. Just to give you a little bit on that, when I was doing great and making a lot of money, this is the longest gap I've been not seeing my baby. I would spend a lot of my money getting my baby driving. Driving those six hours, get my baby, have her for two weeks at a time, go get her again a week later before she started school. Because, you know, she just started pre K, so it's not like we had any systems in the way. I do everything I can to get to my baby.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Except you do everything except go be with your baby. So here's what George and I are trying to tell you. I want you to build a life from the inside out, not from the outside in. And you're using words like co parent, but you haven't seen your four year old. And four year olds don't do FaceTime. Four year olds do touch. They do presence. They do stillness. Okay? Four year olds are basically a giant nervous system. Kids need their dads is what I'm telling you. Okay, I don't want to get in the middle of your theological theology and what prayers you've had. Whatever. What I know is when you make a kid, your priorities in your life changes. I'm not saying that you stop working. I'm not saying that you don't work really hard, that you don't. You're not a full entrepreneur. You don't try to make money. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying it dictates where you live. And if you and mom can't make it work, then you all figure out how we're going to live by baby. Okay, that's not why you called, but maybe that is why this call ended up getting through. All people trying to call. I Want you to figure something out. And it might cost you money in the short term, but you will have something that millions of dads don't have, which is a daughter who wants to come home. Okay, you're playing a 25 year game with this daughter now that when she's 30, when she's 25 and she thinks of her dad, her shoulders will drop and she'll exhale and say, dad's home. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Camel]

So my new goal would be what do my finances need to look like to where I could take a pay cut to go move across the country to be with my daughter and it won't, you know, destroy my finances. So I would have a very clear goal of why we're getting on track. You said you, you don't have a penny in debt, right?

[Caller]

No.

[George Camel]

How much do you have in savings?

[Caller]

Nothing. I just started this job.

[George Camel]

Okay, so that is your next goal. You said you have no bills. How much are you making per month?

[Caller]

About 4,000.

[George Camel]

So how much of that 4,000 do you actually need to cover some expenses like food or whatever, insurance, you name it.

[Caller]

Maybe 650 of it.

[George Camel]

So you're telling me right now in front of America, living in the truck, that you could put away $3,400 a month into a savings account?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[George Camel]

Let's do that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Game on.

[George Camel]

And once you have six months worth of expenses, unless expenses are fake right now for you, but let's say you had real life expenses, you are renting a place. Let's base it on that. Let's say it was three grand a month, six months, that's 18, maybe round up to 20. Once you have 20 grand saved up in a high yield savings account, that's your emergency fund. That is your never go into debt again insurance policy. And once you have that, now we can begin investing. Does your employer have a retirement program?

[Caller]

I'm going into law enforcement. They have great ones.

[George Camel]

Great. So once, once you have that, the, that emergency fund, let's begin investing 15% of our income into that retirement program. And then beyond that, I would be looking to go, I'm going to own a house one day. I'm probably not going to live on the road for the rest of my life, hopefully. And so I would begin saving up in another high yield savings account for that down payment for whatever's next. Maybe it's a deposit for somewhere to rent for a while. But those would be my next goals for you financially of, okay, what can I tactically do right now? And so having a savings account is your next A1.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do what I should.

[Caller]

I should be saving that money into those kind of high yield savings accounts now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right now, yeah.

[George Camel]

So your A1 is the emergency fund. Six months of expenses. Your next A1 would be retirement 15%. Beyond that, let's begin saving up for down payment, deposit all of that for housing. And that will put you in a position to where you're not stressed out. If you have to do a cross country move, if you have to take a pay cut, you know how to live on less than you make. That's the key. You're really good at that part. But now let's make good use of that 3400 because otherwise it'll slip away into snacks and lifestyle and who knows what else.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And dude, I'm telling you right now, Stefan, I would have a conversation with mom tonight. I'm not going another 60 days, even if I have to get another job. They're hiring law enforcement agents everywhere across this country. I'm not going another 60 days without with forcing my daughter to live without a dad and calling that God's will right now. It's not true. Figure out a way to be around your daughter as soon as possible, as often as possible. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should, too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey it's free at netsuite.com Ramsey.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls at 888-825-522. 5. And with those calls, we get a lot of voicemails, a lot of calls we can't take. But the producers, they comb through PA and find some of the best voicemails. And occasionally we'll do a segment called sorry we missed your call. And producer James has a few calls for us, A few voicemails lined up for us. James, can we play the first one? Here we go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I have a question about a trust.

[Caller]

My family is involved in. And my wife and I just were notified that grandma had passed away and left us one quarter of a multimillion dollar trust. But we're just feeling really weird vibes from her parents who basically felt like.

[Dave Ramsey]

They got skipped in the inheritance of.

[Caller]

It and that we should give them the money back somehow. Anyways, if would love to ask about what we should do with this money and how it would work. Thanks so much. Bye.

[George Camel]

Wow. So grandma passes and says, hey, the kids aren't getting jack squat. The grandkids are going to get it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. And so here's the deal, man. Since since there's only one side of this call, we can't ask any questions. The fact that their first response was, hey, that's bull crap. We got skipped. Give us our money. May be a reason why Grandma was like, I'm not leaving them any money. I'm going to leave it to the next generation.

[George Camel]

Yeah, well, especially, I mean, Grandma clearly was doing well.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Managing her money and creating this wealth. So there's a piece of me that says there is a reason. Maybe it wasn't that the parents are mismanaging.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know it's more fun for me to create some drama.

[George Camel]

You know, we say, you know, maybe the parents. She says, hey, the parents, they're fine. They're older, they've got money. The kids, I want to give them a leg up as they begin their journeys as adults. Who knows what the reason is? But the. The truth is they can feel the all the weird vibes they want and be as mad as they want. But this was not your decision.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And I would not give them a penny of this money. You don't have to gloat and hold it over them. But this is not. It's really not your money to give. Grandma gave it to you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I mean, I guess it technically is your money to give, but I just wouldn't. I like what you said. I wouldn't just go buy a bunch of new cars and new houses and be like, wahoo. Like, I would be smart with it. I'd sit down with the smartvestor pro and invest it wisely. But here's the thing. We're just feeling really weird vibes. I don't do really weird vibes when it comes to relationship. If you have a challenge, call me. If you have a problem, let's talk about it. Otherwise I'm going to go do the next right thing. And grandma left you a quarter of a multi million dollar trust. Be a wise good steward of that money and use it as though grandmother's sitting at the table with you in ways that would make her smile and bring her bring her peace.

[George Camel]

And this is your your wife's battle with her parents to deal with. I wouldn't get involved as the son in law.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No. But you can buy one of those electric Hummers that the wheels turn sideways and they park themselves are kind of rad looking.

[George Camel]

That'll really make them angry. So that's what do do with it. Yes, I'd get with a smartvestor pro obviously running through the baby steps. Pay off your debts, invest for the future and hopefully you can do the same for your grandkids one day. Maybe skipping your kids just to keep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The tradition like the tradition. I like that.

[George Camel]

Every other we got another voicemail. James, you got one in the tank. All right, let's see what we got next.

[Caller]

My wife and I are baby step seven and we owe nobody a dime. But I have several vehicles, two collector cars and a Kubota tractor that I need to take care of our seven acre property. Do I sell my toys because they're worth more than my annual income even though they're all paid for? And that's my question. We're investing everything the Ramsey way. Thank you.

[George Camel]

Great question. So baby step seven meaning they have completed all the steps. They paid off their house. They're building wealth, giving generously. But he's got a lot of toys. The collector cars, the tractor and they're millionaires. Some of it we can agree is for fun. Some of it he's saying he needs to take care of this large property and so I see no problem with this. And when we say here's the parameter that's why he's calling in. We have the parameter of hey, everything with wheels and motors shouldn't add up to more than half of your annual income. So let's say he makes 100 grand and the toys are worth 120 total. We're going, that's a lot of your world tied up in what we would say are depreciating assets. The tractor's not Making the money. The collector cars aren't. May hold their value. Who knows? The collector cars might be a little iffy on this one. Several vehicles. So if it's weighing on him, I would say sell what you need to get the weight off your back. But as far as financials go, I mean, there's nothing on fire here either.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No. And I think the weight is. He wants to do everything, quote, unquote, the Ramsey way. And we have this principle. I think the principle begins to dissolve when you become a millionaire and you're a multimillionaire. And as Dave says, could you take one of those collector cars and set it on fire in the living room of your house? And it would make a mess, but it wouldn't hurt your net worth. Yes. You're good. Do you need a tractor to run your property? Yes. And so we're not selling the tractor. You've paid for it. You own it. It's in cash. It's a part of making your life run. Let's. Let's don't do that. If you, like George says. Yeah. If those two collector cars kind of wait on you a little bit, sell one of them if you want to. But, man, you're a millionaire. You are there. You can now spend some money on some of these things and give your money away generously.

[George Camel]

Yeah. The goal of that principle, that parameter, is to allow you to make it through the baby steps to build wealth. Right. And so we don't know their net worth. You could be in baby step seven and not have a high net worth. So a lot could be true here. There's a lot to dig into. So if you're on track for a great retirement and you have plenty of money to give, save, and spend as you please, then I would say you're on track. But if you're going hoof, we're really not where we should be with our retirement. We could invest more. I might look at selling some of these to, you know, just get rid of the weight.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or maybe you're what I would call a technical millionaire. The. The value of your home is $1 million, but y'all are cash poor. Yeah. So sell the two.

[George Camel]

Your land might be worth a million, but you don't have anything in retirement.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. There's no income because of some secret Ramsey formula. It's, you know, the money. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Thanks for the voicemails. We appreciate it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would love a Kubota tractor.

[George Camel]

It sounds fancy. That's if you're. If you're mentioning the brand name, I imagine it's like the Maserati of tractors. Yeah, I have no idea to. I only know John Deere. John Deere is mainstream when it comes to tractors.

[Dr. John Deloney]

John Deere is outstanding. I do Kubota's. Yeah, I can. I can covet me a Kubota tractor. I would love one for my property, so. Yeah, you paid for it with cash. Rock and roll, brother.

[George Camel]

There we go. All right, let's get to a call from Avery in Hartford. What's going on, Avery? Get right to your question.

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going, guys? Thank you for taking my call. My wife and I are currently discussing buying a large tract of uncleared land to build a remote off grid cabin on.

[George Camel]

You're speaking John's language now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Just in case it all goes down. I'm with you.

[Caller]

All right. Yeah. And it's less so if we can afford to do so, we have the cash.

[George Camel]

Great.

[Caller]

It's more. More so if it's the right time to do so.

[George Camel]

Okay. What's going on in your life that you think it may not be the right time?

[Caller]

The goal was always to pay off the house aggressively. And so far we've been doing so. And this money was kind of sitting there to pay off the house. That was kind of the unspecified goal of the money and would be taking a. We have $100,000 in a brokerage account that was supposed to go towards the remaining balance of the mortgage once we got to that point.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But the safest thing you can do, Avery, if it all goes down, is to have a house that nobody can take from you. Pay off your primary mortgage first.

[George Camel]

What's left on the mortgage?

[Caller]

I'm sorry, say it again.

[George Camel]

What's left on the mortgage?

[Caller]

$147,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, and what's the land going to cost? Plus the cabin build?

[Caller]

The full. The land is 30,000. The cabin itself is 20,000. The whole project would be about 100,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so walk this out. What if there's two scenarios? One is you aggressively pay down your house. So you take the 100,000, knock your mortgage down to 47. How quickly could you pay off the remaining 47?

[Caller]

It would be years.

[George Camel]

A few years.

[Caller]

Two years.

[George Camel]

Two years. Okay, so two years from now, you begin saving up for this new hundred thousand dollar land and cabin project that I'm guessing could be done in another four years or less, presumably.

[Caller]

So, you know, with raises and whatnot. Yeah, probably.

[George Camel]

So six years from now, how old are you?

[Caller]

That would put me at 35, both of us at 35.

[George Camel]

That feels like a more peaceful path to me personally is getting our primary house paid off. Then we save up and purchase the toy and have this. This cabin dream. Is there going to be less land? Is it going to be maybe a little more? Sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have you ever lived in the woods? Dude, I've spent a lot of time.

[Caller]

In the woods, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

I grew up in the woods.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have you. Would you consider selling your primary residence to move to the woods?

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Yeah, I. Dude, I've got. I just got a thing in my guts. I love the woods, but more so than the woods, I like having a house that nobody can ever, ever take away from me.

[George Camel]

And six years fly by.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. As a hedge. And man, if it really means a lot to you, you can save up and get 30,000 bucks. I think y'all can knock that out.

[George Camel]

Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well, that's why we created the Ramsey Network app. Your single source for content that keeps you motivated. Motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused on reaching your goals. Loaded with over 7,000 hours of Ramsay shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content and no distractions. Plus, you can search specific questions to get more personalized content in seconds. So for the days you need some extra motivation, you'll have proven advice at your fingertips. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good. Simply search Ramsey Network in the app store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app.

[George Camel]

Today from Ramsey Network. This is the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by bestselling author Dr. John DeLoney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Don't be shy. Give us a call and we'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Robert is going to kick us off this hour in Chicago. Robert, welcome to the show. You with us?

[Caller]

Yes, sir, I'm here.

[George Camel]

Hey, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, so basically what I'm wondering is my wife and I, we bought a car in basically the beginning of COVID Got it for a 0% interest rate, which was great. I would consider ourselves living by the Ramsey principles, like paying off debt, avoiding debt, saving up all the things was wondering if we were better off paying off the vehicle that we have with a 0% interest loan or just continue to pay it off because it's not costing us any money, you know?

[George Camel]

What do you mean it's not costing.

[Caller]

You money for the loan?

[George Camel]

Like within, you're saying because the interest isn't there, because that payment is costing you. There's opportunity cost in paying a payment.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[George Camel]

Okay. How much money do you have saved up?

[Caller]

Well, so that's the thing. We're buying another car this weekend, but we're doing it in cash.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

So not going into debt, but we have about 80k saved up and then we'll have the delta of that would be basically our emergency fund. So just wondering if we dip into that or pay it off.

[George Camel]

Well, what's. What would you consider your emergency fund? Give me a number.

[Caller]

30 to 40 grand.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let's say you have 40 to spend on this car. What's your household income?

[Caller]

Over 200 probably.

[George Camel]

Awesome. Okay. And what's this car going to cost you that you're about to buy?

[Caller]

50. 50,000.

[George Camel]

Okay. So it'd leave you with 30 for your emergency fund, 50 for the car. And what's your car worth that you have the 0% loan on?

[Caller]

So honestly, we bought it brand new, so it was like zero percent interest for seven years. And we put a pretty good bit down on it. So I don't know what it's worth at the 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee, but there's like 11,000 left on it. So we'd have it paid off in March of 2027.

[George Camel]

Cool. Yeah, I mean, I'd get rid of the loan. And the truth with these 0% loans are that they charge you top dollar. The dealerships are going to make their money. And so there's a reason they can offer these 0% loans and they are the ones winning in the payment. What is the payment on this car?

[Caller]

385Amonth.

[George Camel]

So that 385 that you'll free up that you can now use to do whatever. I'm guessing invest for the future will pay dividends more than paying down an asset that is going down in value.

[Caller]

Totally fair. I mean I plan on having this car for at least another six years, then hopefully longer. We are having a kid in the next month or so. So again, trying to like just figure, I know lots of adulting. So trying to figure out and are.

[George Camel]

You about to go buy a brand new car? I feel like you guys like brand new cars. You Cannot settle for the 2023. It's simply too old. Are you guys, you guys have a net worth of a million dollars or more?

[Caller]

No.

[George Camel]

Okay. I personally I would caution you against purchasing a brand new car.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Please don't.

[George Camel]

It will lose 10% of the value as soon as you drive it off the lot and 60% over the next five years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Think about it this way. What? You own that Jeep Grand Cherokee. That's what you're lighting on fire in the parking lot of the car dealership when you drive off the new car. Because if you drove it on the block and drove it right back and sold it, they'd buy it back for about 11 grand lessons. So that's what you're going to light on fire in their parking lot. And you don't have the kind of money to do that. Dave Ramsey does. You don't.

[George Camel]

So the reason for that parameter of only buy a new car if you're a net worth millionaire is that too much of your world is wrapped up in cars until you have the net worth to stomach it. And you guys are doing great. Let me just say, Robert, you guys are crushing it. You have an amazing income. You're going to get this debt paid off and very soon you can buy new cars for the rest of time once you hit that million millionaire status. But right now I would go, hey, can we buy a 2 year old car and save? And the delta of what we save we can use to pay off my car instantly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Done. You can have them both. Done.

[George Camel]

Before we have the baby here. That would be a cool feeling, wouldn't it?

[Caller]

Fair. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And there's a, there is a rumor going around that I can dispel for you because both, both George and I have lived it. New babies can drive around town in used cars. And I didn't believe it to be true, but it's on the. Because it says it on the Internet. But both of our kids have done it, right? That's right, all of them.

[George Camel]

My wife, we got Robert. When we had our first kid, my wife finally upgraded her car. We'd sacrifice for long enough. We paid cash for a nice car for her. And even then I was like, I'm going to let someone else take the depreciation on these luxury cars. And so we saved upwards of, I don't know, 10 or 20 grand just by buying slightly used.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But I saw, I saw a child seat in your 300 year old Tesla the other day.

[Caller]

That's right.

[George Camel]

11 years old and it still carries child. Amazing. So here's the deal, Robert. I would look at a 39,000 out the door price for this new to you car and I'd use the other 11 you were going to spend and pay off your car today. Not the answer you were hoping for but that's what I would personally. That's what John and I would personally.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do for our family in my life. If I was in your seat, I'd do that exact same thing. And a forty thousand dollar paid for cash car is nothing to sneeze at. That's a nice car. Sure you're gonna do great with it. And I love the idea of a baby coming into the world with parents who make almost a quarter million dollars and they don't owe anybody anything. That's just a cool. That's a, it's a, it's a, it's a stress. A stress free home or a stress. It's got less stress in it. Stress less free home. And dude, I just for that little baby's nervous system man. Just seems like a pretty sweet gift.

[George Camel]

Hope that helps. I don't think it's what he wanted to hear, but it's what he heard.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Fun ruin.comorg let's see if we can.

[George Camel]

Help Grace out real quick. Grace, can you get right to the question? We're up against the clock.

[Caller]

Hey. Hey guys. Thanks for having me. So after college I started with a financial advisor. I was making 75k and I got a million dollar term policy. Everything I read that was a good decision. A year in he says oh, we're going to, you know, start this new investment vehicle and we're going to convert. And I didn't know it was a conversion. Dropping my million to 700,000. And I've been getting into like emails with him and conversations and he is just anti me canceling the policy and taking it into.

[George Camel]

Who is this person?

[Caller]

I can disclose the name.

[George Camel]

No, I mean like is this your insurance person? Because you should fire them. They work for you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, fire them.

[Caller]

I know. Yeah.

[George Camel]

So surrender. Get Term Life in place. Go to Zander.com and get term Life in place. They'll shop the top companies for you. Get Term Life back in place and then surrender the whole life policy and be very firm. I'm not asking you, I'm not looking for your opinion. I'm looking to surrender this policy. I'm done doing business with you.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I guess my thought is can I just at this point I can contact him without him actually trying to sell me more whole life and more of A conversion at this point. Can I just go through the insurance company, surrender it, and then start investing in it and just kind of send them an email saying, I'm done working with you. I'm tired of this.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I mean, you can make, you don't have to make it emotional. Just say, hey, I've surrendered the policy. That's it. I'm done. I've moved on. I've got term life through a separate company.

[Caller]

Yeah. And then I have like 2 of the disability policy through him. I'm probably just going to get rid of all.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't do business with unethical people. Yeah. Don't do business that want to take advantage of what they see as an easy target in a young professional woman. I don't do, don't, don't work with people who treat you like that. Good for you.

[George Camel]

Time to move on. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This month is all about gratitude, and most of us have people in our lives that we're grateful for. One of those people, for me, is the wonderful Marilyn Fanon. She gave me a chance. She taught me poise and professionalism, and she challenged me. But there's one person that we often don't take time to think ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're barely surviving or that we're moving forward or that we're working towards a better life and better relationships. And in a world where everything seems to have gone bonkers, it's not always easy to be grateful. So here's my reminder to thank the people in your life, including you. And sometimes to do that, we need some professional help. We need to talk to someone trained to help us discover true gratitude for ourselves and others, especially in the holiday season. That's why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist at just about anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This season, let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com DeLoney all right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let'S cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust. Trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near [e-mail] agent ramseysolutions.com agent.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John DeLoney. Ann is up next in Boston, Massachusetts, hell stomping grounds. What's going on? Ann?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Good afternoon.

[George Camel]

Good to have you. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I've listened to your show for a very long time, and I actually started following Ramsey in the 19, the early 2000s, and, you know, succeeded in having some decent financial security. And then, yeah, about five years ago, my husband suddenly passed away and, yeah, 59. So, you know, it was just a bummer because we were planning, you know, we had educated our kids, we were making good headway on finances at home. We were planning a future. So I went into, like, a state of just craziness. I don't know what you call it, but very angry. Yeah, very angry. And I actually donated a lot of money and I spent our emergency fund money and I charged up $37,000 worth of credit card debt.

Wow.

And so I'm back to replay replenishing my emergency money and I'm getting rid of my credit cards, consolidating back to the baby steps. But my question is, I have. I feel like my situation is so awkward because I. $1.1 million in my retirement account.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

I have. I'll have you know, I'll be secure when I retire because I'll have two pensions and.

[George Camel]

And how old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 63. So this is my question. I have two more years of working full time and I plan on. I'd like to go part time. I'm a nurse and I'd like to go part time. At 65. Should I plan to just, you know, go back to baby steps and pay off my credit cards with my working income now as fast as I can, or should I just take some money from my retirement and get that off my plate? Like, I don't know which is the best.

[George Camel]

What's your total debt right now?

[Caller]

37,000.

[George Camel]

Do you have a mortgage?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

What's left on that?

[Caller]

Not. I'm sorry, I have 97.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

So when I, when I fully retire, I'll have that paid. That'll be paid in four years.

[George Camel]

Okay. So should you use your working income in the future to pay this off? Or take some out of retirement. It's not a lot. You're taking that 1.1 million and taking 37. I mean, the ratio here is small, but here's what I love about you using future income. You will never go into debt again when you have to make those extra payments on those credit cards. And I would.

[Caller]

That's what I'm.

[George Camel]

I would encourage you to cut them up after. So from a math standpoint, you could take retirement money and pay this off today and be done with it. But I want to see your habits change forever. And that's where paying off this debt with future income, you'll feel that more. And I think adding friction back into your life is what's going to cause you to make better decisions in the future. That's one man's taste.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's my gut feeling. But I'm like, am I being stupid financially, though? Because I do have the money, but I do want to make it uncomfortable for myself.

[George Camel]

I think discomfort is undervalued in today's world.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

I think we've been comfortable for too long. What do you think, John?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And we. Do me a favor.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This is kind of a weird request.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you holding anything in either of your hands?

[Caller]

No, but I'm kind of nervous. I'm shaking my legs. Am I making a lot of noise?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, you're not doing anything wrong. I want you to take your hands.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I want you to squeeze them as hard as you can together.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Squeeze them really tight. Three, two, and then let them go. Open them up gently. Okay.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And your shoulders are pretty high right now because you're nervous. I want you to pull them all the way down. Consciously pull them down. Okay.

[Caller]

Yep. Okay. Done. What? Can you see me or something?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, I can hear you.

[George Camel]

Now listen to me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Listen.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What was your husband's name?

[Caller]

Bill.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He just up and. He up and passed away, didn't he?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you miss him? Like bloody hell.

[Caller]

Great guy. Oh, he was my soulmate.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Can I tell you, you're allowed to be mad at stinking Bill. And when you get to the gates, he's going to get an earful from aunt. That's fine. Okay.

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And can I tell you something?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He gonna be waiting there for you, hollering at you to hurry up, quit taking so long.

[Caller]

I know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can I tell you something else?

[Caller]

What?

[Dr. John Deloney]

When he passed away, the world got real gray and you bought some stuff. Who gives a crap? Will you quit beating yourself up over that?

[Caller]

I know. I Am today.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Terrible today. We're done. If he was sitting right next to you, he'd say and quit. Oh, my gosh. Quit talking about it, wouldn't he?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Caller]

Yeah, it was mostly for like, my grandkids, my kids.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. You know what you tried to do with your pain? You tried to be in service to other people. Good. I could think of a lot of worse vices that you could have gotten into after losing an arm and a leg and part of your heart.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So quit beating yourself up. You're a millionaire because of the life you and Bill created. You're going to get this debt paid off. You're not a scared of hard work. You're not scared of putting a couple of small hurdles in front of you. You're an amazing 62 year old woman.

[Caller]

Oh, my God. This is such a nice phone call. It's not what I expected.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know, but listen, every day you weighed in to the craziness of hurting people and you bring them a little peace, don't you?

[Caller]

Mm.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

At least commit for the rest of today to give yourself that peace because you're worth that too.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You promise?

[Caller]

I really appreciate that.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Cuz finding it financially, I have felt a lot of shame.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. No, dude, you know what happens if my wife up and passed away? Do you know what happened? You would see the supernova from Boston. I can tell you right now, I would not make a string of good choices back to back to back to back.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

He was such a good guy. Yeah. You do feel like you lost your better half.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What was the funniest? What's the hardest he ever made you laugh?

[Caller]

Oh, my God. He was always making me laugh. He used to dance around the house, you know, just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Whoa. And this is a family show. What are you doing?

[Caller]

He would dance around the house. Oh, I have all these funny videos of him. Yeah, he would. He's just. He was just a great guy. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, well, that joy and that light is still sitting inside your chest. And I want you to quit covering it up with shame because you spent some money and gave some money away after he passed away. Okay, we're done with that now.

[Caller]

Yep.

[George Camel]

So paying off these credit cards with your future income. This is not a punishment to Anne because she's made bad decisions. This is a gift to herself.

[Caller]

Yeah, I feel good with that. I feel really good with that. Because my husband. I worked so hard to save up that money and it would be like just very defeating if, you know, just make me Feel bad that I took that money. I mean, I read Dave Ramsey's first book in 2002, and I remember I was just a new nurse putting $10 a week into my retirement account, thinking, this can't possibly.

[George Camel]

This isn't doing anything much money. Now you got 1.1 million at 63. And he goes, oh, I guess it does something.

[Caller]

It does. And I never stopped contributing. I never segued. When the markets crashed, I just didn't even look at it. And one day I turned around and I had 800,000 in my account. I couldn't believe it. But of course, it's been 39 years, so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But it's been for just for just this moment. And I'm glad. I'm glad that our paths crossed today. My life is going to be a little bit brighter because I got to talk to you.

[Caller]

Thank you so much.

[George Camel]

And selfishly, as a guy from the South Shore, I just miss a good Boston accent and really did something for me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you were in a Harvard bar having a lager right now, now it would make me feel a lot better.

[George Camel]

But I'm gonna eat some clam chowder tonight in your honor.

[Caller]

Yeah, get some clam chowder for sure.

[George Camel]

Oh, that warmed my heart. Thank you.

[Caller]

Oh, great.

Oh, I feel so much better. I'm, you know, even though I have to struggle and pay for this, I feel much better with that decision. Thank you, dude.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you. You're doing everything right. You're on the right path, man.

[George Camel]

Creating a new picture of what's Next as my Dr. John Woods. It's not the one you had in your mind, not the one you and Bill created, but. But everyone listening is proud of you. They're cheering you on for this next chapter of your life, and you're entering into it with freedom. No debt. With the beautiful memory of this man who made you the woman you are. Thanks for the call, Ann. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys. I've never done this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field of Greens. Each fruit and vegetable in field of greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver, and kidney health plus metabolism for healthy weight. And your doctor will know. Notice your improved health or Field of Greens will give you your money back. I can get behind a promise like that. Go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsay and get 15% off with promo code Ramsay. Fieldofgreens.com Ramsay.

[George Camel]

Hey, guys. George Camel here. And it's that time of year again. The store shelves are packed with Little Debbie's Christmas Trees, matching pajamas for you and your dog, you know who you are. And giant inflatable Santas for the yard. I'm not mad about that. And speaking of inflation, Americans are about to spend close to a trillion dollars this Christmas. And get this, one third of that spending will be swiped on credit cards. Yikes. Now I get it. You want the holidays to feel magical and you want to have a good time. But trust me, there is nothing magical about staring down a mountain of credit card debt come January. So here's the deal. If you don't want January you to hate December you, I've got a money hack for you. Download the EveryDollar app. It's free to get started and you could find an extra $400 of margin in your first month of using it. See, with EveryDollar, you'll keep your holiday spending under control. You'll track your expenses, you'll make a plan, you'll stay accountable and maybe even set yourself up with some sweet New Year goals. So skip the post Christmas regret and download EveryDollar for free in the app store today. Your future self will thank you. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George campbell, joined by Dr. John DeLoney. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Wirefi. Why refi refinances defaulted private student loans. Defaulted meaning when the borrower can't make the required payments. So if that describes you and you've got private student loans, contact WireFi. They can offer you a low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to wirefi.comramsey today. That's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be available in all states.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Today's question comes from Andrea in Arkansas. My husband's mom inherited the family hunting ranch. Oh, I would love to get this call one day which is worth about a million dollars. My husband and I pay most of the expenses. We use our personal equipment to maintain it and we are the ones who schedule and host hunters. I also handle all the bookkeeping. Andrea, call me. So I told my mother in law that an LLC needs to be created for the amount of business we do. She met with her attorney and now the ranch is now only in hers and my husband's name. I feel like she's trying to cause a rift between my husband and me. I'm trying not to judge their family history, but every one of the other four kids are divorced. This seems to be her way of creating an easy way out of it if we were to divorce. My husband and I have a Strong relationship. And he assures me not to worry because this will change nothing in our marriage. But I'm the one doing all the legwork and hoping this doesn't mess up our relationship. Am I wrong for voicing my opinion in this matter? What happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? We have two questions. We have two kids that will need to be cared for and we earn nothing from the ranch.

[George Camel]

That those last four words tell me a whole lot. We are. That's really the resentment. She's putting a whole lot of work in. She's getting $0 for it and her name's not attached to it. So there seems to be. That's all playing into this picture.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. This is a mess.

[George Camel]

They use their personal equipment to maintain it. They're the ones scheduling doing all that. She's doing the bookkeeping and she's the one handling telling the mother in law to meet with this person. And I personally don't know the full story. I don't know if the mother in law is being malicious, if this is really a strategic move. This was inherited family land and property that she inherited. So the daughter in law doesn't have a right to this land even though she's doing work for. For this property.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. And I. Yeah. So there's multiple things happening here, I think, George. I think one of them is you're running a business that doesn't make any money. Stop. Stop. Running a business that doesn't make money.

[George Camel]

Who is making the money? That's the question.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The only thing I could think of.

[George Camel]

We earn nothing. So like the husband. She's not getting anything. The husband's not his mom making all the money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So if husband is using all of his tools and stuff like that to help because he wants to help out mom and he's the one good kid. He's the. All the other kids are divorced and causing problems and he's the one good kid. So he's just gonna dump some money into this thing. That's. That's one thing. If it's mom's property and she wants to bring on your husband as a co owner of an LLC in case she passes away, it's easy to go to him. I wouldn't lose sleep over that. But the fact that you're asking this question tells me there's something else going on here. And if you had trust in your mother in law because of the way she has treated you in the past and this came up, you wouldn't think twice about it. Right. If my in laws, one of my in laws, my father in law or my mother in law was to do a joint venture with my wife that I helped with. I wouldn't think twice about it because I trust both of them implicitly forever. This tells me there's other trust issues and that mom's maybe been trying to cut you out for a long time. And this is another way she kind of edge. Anyway, whole thing's messy. So I would ask this way. Number one, if your husband likes hunting on this property and it's fun and he likes doing it and he likes to make a little side muscle, side money bringing in hunters in. Y'all figured that out. Even if you bring inside money and all it does is pay the taxes on the land and pays for the feeders, fine. If husband's trying to do this to win's mom's favor and maybe one day she'll leave it to him. Hopefully if she it. And now we're getting into messy stuff. And if you're running a business that's not earning anything, you need to have that conversation.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Whole thing's a mess. But I want to go back to this one question here. Am I wrong for voicing my opinion on this matter? If you are a part of a marriage where both people have a voice and both people can be heard and to say what's on their hearts and on their minds. No, no. If you have voiced your opinion and your husband said, I don't care, don't worry about it, then nagging or complaining or going to war is not going to solve the problem. Then your marriage has deeper issues, which is your husband doesn't care what your opinion is on these matters. He's going to do what he's going to do. You'll need to address that core issue.

[Caller]

Right?

[George Camel]

Yeah. And talk to him. You said, what happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? Figure out what the will looks like and what the estate planning journey looks like and what will happen with this. His. The LLC that he's a part of. I would. I think you have a right to know what would happen there. But I also wouldn't. I feel like there's just more resentment here because of the effort she's putting in. So maybe she goes, I'm going to back out of this and y'all can hire a bookkeeper.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's exactly right. You can hire a bookkeeper. You can hire somebody who is booking these hunts. I'm going to step out and just be with the kids.

[George Camel]

There you go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it's not a job. It's not like we're going to lose money on it. And y'all knock your lights out if that's something you want to do on the side.

[George Camel]

Not much to lose here. All right, let's go to the phones. Daniel is in Cleveland up next. What's going on?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Daniel?

[George Camel]

Daniel.

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks guys for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I'm 23 years old. My wife is 24. We have a three month old daughter. My wife stays at home. I'm a nurse. Our yearly income is probably around 60,000. We bought a house around six months ago. We have about $150,000 loan at like 5.6% interest, I think. So my question is we have about $100,000 in our in a high yield savings account. I mean, it looks like we'll end up getting another 100,000 from like an inheritance basically within the next month. We have zero debt. I'm just, I guess just like looking forward, I guess, should I be paying off my home? And I just don't know exactly, I guess what to do with the money. I just don't want it to sit there.

[George Camel]

Yeah. So the 100,000 in the high yield, does that include your emergency fund? Is that built into that?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's built into that, yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, so what number would that be? Let's separate it out.

[Caller]

I think probably around 20. Okay.

[George Camel]

So 80,000 is freed up. You've got 100 coming in from the inheritance. You owe 150 on the mortgage. I would pay off the house as soon as that inheritance comes in.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

That's going to lower your expenses. You've got a stay at home wife. It's going to free you up with more margin to build wealth to give to up the lifestyle, whatever it is you want to do with that. But that's absolutely what I would do, especially as you filter it through the baby steps. Are you guys currently investing 15% of your income?

[Caller]

No, we're not. So I haven't invested anything yet. I'm just starting to try to. I honestly haven't listened to Dave Ramsey much other than in the last few months.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Welcome to the cult, brother. We're glad you're here.

[George Camel]

That means you're trying to better your finances in your family's future. So I love that. So I would begin, I'm sure as a nurse you have a retirement plan, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think they match like I think 4% on a 401k. So I need to do that. And then my wife actually has a Roth IRA that her Father set up a long time ago. She hasn't put much money into it since then.

[George Camel]

But you can deposit money into there because of a spousal Roth ira. So even if that spouse isn't working because you're married, you know she's married to you, you can have that earned income from you going into that account. So you could max out two Roth IRAs. You could put the 4% to get the match and invest that way. And I'll walk you through this in my book Breaking Free from Broke and show you that path to building wealth. So I'll send you a copy of that. But the spark notes here is I'd get that house paid off. What's your mortgage payment?

[Caller]

It's around 1,200.

[George Camel]

Okay. So I'm guessing principal and interest of that is a big chunk.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we're paying 800 in interest. Just the way that they set up the, you know, the loan.

[George Camel]

Dude, What a gift. 23 and 24 and not a payment in the world. With plenty of money in the bank. If you just keep living like that, you're going to be a multi millionaire giving very generously.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know what, if you pay the house off tomorrow, you just got a raise to $72,000 a year.

[Caller]

Yeah, because of the. It makes sense. I mean, I guess like for us. I just feel like I'm at somewhat of a pivotal point because I'm just don't know exactly what I want to do. I also am thinking about going back to school to try to increase obviously our yearly income. I'm really hoping my wife can continue to stay home.

[George Camel]

Well, no house payment. With money in the bank, you can cash flow school and it'll give you the margin to do that without needing seven side jobs jobs so you can be there with those young kids.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Bro, you don't have a house payment.

[George Camel]

This is a great place to be.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You won. You won. If you don't screw this up and go take out stupid student loans because, well, if you're an anesthesiologist and you can. Don't take out any loans. Grind it. Take this extra money and spend it. Invest it in yourselves, bro. George, you're right, dude. You won. You won.

[George Camel]

If you never have a payment again at 23 years old, you're going to be just fine, my man. Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsey show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Folks. The Ramsey Christmas cash giveaway is here and you could win big. We're giving away $500 prizes each week and one grand prize of $5,000 in our daily for your chance to win at ramseysolutions.com giveaway. It's that easy. Plus, our 50 Days of Christmas deals is on right now. Get up to 30% off bestsellers and life changing G that won't break the holiday budget. Ramseysolutions.com store.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. We just launched a brand new tour with Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney. They're hitting the road with the Money and Relationships tour. They're going to Louisville on April 21, Durham on April 23, Atlanta April 25, Phenix on May 5, Fort Worth on May 7, and ending in Kansas City on May 9. And here's what's cool about this event. I don't know how they're doing it, John, but they're going to let the audience choose the topics that you guys talk about. Do you know how they're doing this? What magic, what sorcery is this?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, yeah, it's going to be pretty chaotic. I'm just, I'm laughing. You and I are one of just a few people on the planet who knows what it's like sitting next to Dave, not knowing what he's gonna say next and not knowing what's gonna come out of his mouth. And then he looks at you and says, your turn.

[George Camel]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so, yeah, I haven't been nervous for an event in a fun way. Like it's gonna be kind of wheels off.

[George Camel]

Who knows what's gonna happen?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. But I put a QR code up on the wall and they'll have topics and people get to write in and.

[George Camel]

We kind of just vote and then.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Based on consensus, it is game on.

[George Camel]

We can talk about intimacy or wealth building, whatever, who knows?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Talk about retirement and sex and marriage, communication.

[George Camel]

And where else can you get that in one room in one night? That's amazing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, man.

[George Camel]

Grab your tickets. Money and Relationships Tour Dave and Dr. John RamseySolutions.com Tour and if you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show Notes Madison is up next in Hartford, Connecticut. What's going on, Madison?

[Caller]

Hey. So I want to thank you for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Sure.

[Caller]

So I'm currently 24. I just started my second nursing job after graduating college. I will practice by saying that I am in some debt, forgot from going to school and like a car loan, but with benefits and them being so overwhelming and confusing. I do Have a few questions.

Okay, so with my employer, they have.

A 6% match on my retirement and even though I have some debts, I assume that I should contribute that amount.

[George Camel]

Be careful with assumptions.

[Caller]

I know, right, okay, but and I guess depending on the answer to that question, my second piece is they offer it as like pre tax or in a Roth.

[George Camel]

Yep.

[Caller]

I guess if you want to, I can stop there. The second part is kind of something different as another benefit.

[George Camel]

Okay, so your number one question is, should I contribute to this even though I have debt?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. The not fun answer is that I would pause all investing until you knock out all of this debt for two reasons. Number one, it's going to give you back 6% of your annual income to tackle the debt faster. Right.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And number two, it's going to put a fire under you to get rid of that debt really fast because you want to get to that investing and get to that free money. And as humans, we kind of need to have this carrot dangling in front of us. Otherwise we get comfortable doing 17 things and not making progress on anything of it. So what is your household, your gross income?

[Caller]

Personally? We have 70 before overtime.

[George Camel]

70. Okay, so 6%, that's 4200 a year. That's 350amonth. So you'll have 350 back in your paycheck. To attack debt, what's your total debt load?

[Caller]

About 20,000 in student debt and 12 in a car loan.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you got 32 in debt, you make 70. How aggressively can we pay this off? My guess is 18 months.

[Caller]

Yeah, I said I paid 10,000 off my car last year.

[George Camel]

Boom. If you get aggressive, if you do it George and John's way, this debt is going to be gone in 18 months. So that puts you at 25 years old. And now you're investing 15% instead of the measly match, which is what most people do for their whole life. They can never get above the match. They don't have the money. Right.

[Caller]

For sure.

[George Camel]

So now imagine you're making more money. You're investing 15%, which is 10,500. So now you're investing 875 instead of 350 for the rest of your life.

[Caller]

So when it comes to that time, because 18 months, we all know just flies by, it will. Should that be in the pre tax retirement or the Roth?

[George Camel]

I would personally go Roth. And it's a simple reason. You're going to use after tax money so you won't get the deduction on your, you know, when you do Your taxes like you would with traditional savings. But that money, you already paid Uncle Sam. So it's going to grow tax free and you can withdraw it tax free. So if you have, let's say you retire, I'm going to say you're 24 years old. Let's say you start investing at 25, you work till 62 and you never get a raise after putting in that, you know, 875 or whatever. Well, guess what? You're going to have $5.4 million. And if you're in traditional, you've got to pay taxes on that money as you withdraw it. But if it's roth, you have $5.4 million of take home pay, of net income. You see the difference?

[Caller]

Oh, for sure. And that's why I was confused whether I should start now, even though it wouldn't be 15%. And that's my, like my fiance and I's finances are totally separate.

[George Camel]

Good. As it should be until you're married. Don't combine.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can I ask you a crazy question, Madison?

[Caller]

Yeah, go for it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have you, and you've been in job one and now you're in job two. Have you been in a room when a doctor flew by and said, do this, this and this. And your first thought was.

[Caller]

Oh, for sure. That's why I'm on the phone with you now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There you go. So here's what I want. I'm going to come to you as a nurse one day holding the most precious thing in the world to me, and that's my daughter. Or I'm going to come in holding my son, and I'm going to be using super human strength because he's humongous. And I'm going to look at you, I'm going to say, help. And I would much rather make eye contact with somebody who is completely free, doesn't owe anybody anything, who can say, I can help your kid. I would much rather that interaction than somebody who says, well, we're going to have to run you through the whatever spectrometer because this is the plan. Because, you know, I gotta pay these credit card bills and I gotta follow the. You see what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Oh, for sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I want a health professional that is free to do the right thing in the right moment. Not somebody's gotta think through a whole bunch of filters because a bank owns their next move. And so I want you to think about being 26 and 25. You don't owe anybody anything. You know what you can do the next day, whatever you want. And the Day after that. Yeah, whatever you want.

[Caller]

Perfect.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You see what I'm saying? And then George, George just gave you the roadmap, dude. Just your salary alone, $5 million.

[George Camel]

And that's if you never get a raise, which you sound like, you're an incredible nurse. You're going to go places, you're going to make more money over time. We'll always need nurses. And so that's just goes to show you, if you can, if you get this debt out of your life, it's going to free up margin for the rest of your life.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

And so you'll save up and pay cash for your next car. You'll never go into student loan debt again. You'll cut up the credit cards. You use your own money because you don't need a bank, you don't need a lender.

[Caller]

Oh, for sure. Never touch the credit card. Don't plan on it.

[George Camel]

Awesome. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But there's going to come a moment when you're going to want to go. Someone's going to, at your office is going to say, hey, we have this little program. It costs $25,000 or $50,000. You can go be a nurse practitioner. We want you to. We, we've seen you. We want you to do it. And it starts in the fall. I want you and your husband to be in a place where you'll have that money saved up because you know that he's going to come. So start saving for now.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

You said you had one more question. I don't want to leave you hanging.

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. So the second part, I kind of get the gist now, but it was the HSA that my work offers as well. So they contribute every year $750. When they just say to anybody that.

[George Camel]

Takes the health insurance policy, awesome. At 100% do that.

[Caller]

Well, yeah.

So obviously the free money is super smart. My other piece is. So I have approximately, like $100 in medical bills that are like, I could use SHSA for every month.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Due to like a predisposed condition. And so I'm wondering if, like, I know it should be investing and I know at $1,000 it can be invested and so on. And I'll have this bill, these medical bills at approximately $100 a month for the rest of my life. So should I get some asking? Should I be putting enough in there to pay for my $100 a month so that it's coming out pre tax?

[George Camel]

Sure, yeah. That'd give you the most benefit.

[Caller]

Okay.

I just want to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's Going to be a light bill for you.

[George Camel]

It's like getting a 15 or 20% discount on that bill every month by running it through the hsa and then.

[Caller]

Eventually should be after this debt is cleared, be contributing more to that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Max the whole thing out.

[George Camel]

Yeah. My goal for you would be once you've got 15%, you're debt free, you got the emergency fund. Then beyond the 15% retirement investing, max out your HSA every year as a kind of a bonus retirement account one day. And at 65, you can use it as a traditional 401k for non medical expenses. You'll have to pay taxes on that if it's not for medical. But that's kind of a cool, fun fact about the HSA. So great call Madison. I'm proud of you, 24 years old. To be asking these questions tells me that you're gonna be just fine. And I'm really proud of you. Get your fiance on board and you guys will be going places and building wealth together. This is the Ramsey Show. Keep listening on the Ramsey Network app. We've got more calls to come. Go download it. Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the app store, Google Play store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.