Quit Blaming Your Past And Take Control Of Your Money

Summary

The Ramsey Show – "Quit Blaming Your Past And Take Control Of Your Money"

Host: Dave Ramsey (with Ken Coleman and guests)
Date: October 8, 2025

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Main Theme

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers on rejecting blame for past financial mistakes, facing current realities, and proactively taking control of your money and life. Dave Ramsey and co-host Ken Coleman answer live calls about debt, marriage and money, family disputes, major life transitions, and the practical steps required for lasting financial change. The episode is rich with real-life scenarios, actionable advice, and inspiration for all listeners seeking to move beyond excuses.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Facing Up to Debt–No More Excuses

• Caller Joe, Milwaukee: Joe is considering marriage but carries $230,000 in debt (mostly student loans for a PhD/MBA) versus his girlfriend’s $1M net worth and $160k income.
  • Main Issues: Should they wait to marry, get a prenup, or keep finances totally separate? He feels the pressure to "protect" her.
  • Dave (07:36): "What scares me more than the debt is that you just now woke up...That scares me more than the debt. If you told me you've been scratching and clawing at this...and the problem's in my mirror, I'd be a lot more comfortable."
  • Advice: Marriage means full alignment and sharing. No prenup is needed; instead, Joe must prove real behavioral change before marriage. "If you're going to share a bed and a life... you're going to share assets and liabilities..." (06:41)

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2. Family Real Estate Drama and Boundaries

• Caller Gene, Savannah: Inherited property is facing foreclosure; tangled ownership due to an unrecorded deed. There’s pressure to split sale proceeds with a non-relative "brother" who already received a portion previously.
  • Dave (14:00): "He sits down with her and says, I'm not doing this. He stiffed me. He's not a brother. He's not in this deal. He already got more than he deserved the first round. No, I'm not splitting with him."
  • Additional Guidance: "Would you, for God's sakes, have a lawyer close the deal this time so it's done right? Y'all people. You people suck at business... I've never heard one that was this bad. This sucks." (15:37)
• Emotional Core: Emphasizes the cost of conflict avoidance and poor clarity with family: "To be unclear is to be unkind... Good conflict will bring you a clean land.” (19:00)

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3. Emergencies and Flexing the Baby Steps

• Caller Elizabeth, Virginia Beach: Military family considering using emergency funds to pay off a car, but worried due to a government shutdown.
  • Dave (23:46): “You push pause on everything and pile cash up...when the storm subsides and the sun comes out, push play again.”
  • Ken (25:39): "This is why you really have an emergency fund here. This is what we’d call a big, big emergency.”

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4. Inherited IRAs and Taxes

• Caller Craig, San Antonio: Unsure of the best way to handle inherited traditional IRAs subject to the 10-year rule.
  • Dave (29:36): “You have gotten correct information, sir...You can take out a tenth a year, maybe not have a tax bracket creep.”
  • Actionable Tip: Consult a SmartVestor Pro to make a withdrawal plan and analyze tax costs over time.

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5. Business and Marriage Roles

• Question from Tanner, SC: Asks if it’s reasonable for his wife to want operational control over the photography business he built before marriage.
  • Dave (35:25): “She has taken more ground than she has been given...Unless she comes down there and gets on the payroll and becomes a CEO or COO…”
  • Advice: Spousal input is valuable, but operational control needs to be defined by actual business involvement. Seek counseling if it becomes a marital impasse.

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6. Push Pause During Big Life Events

• Caller Jared, NYC: Wife pregnant, likely special medical needs for the baby; they are in Baby Step 2 but uncertain whether to pay off debt or stockpile cash.
  • Dave (41:58): “Stop right now and just pile. How big a pile of cash can you make?...After the baby, pay whatever bills insurance doesn’t cover."
  • Ken (42:57): “Oh, you’ll make it. Kids are expensive. Just deal with it. But you’ll make it, I promise.”

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7. Stuck in a Cycle of Debt

• Caller Liz, Nashville: Married, $62,000 in credit card debt, $500k mortgage; despite trying the baby steps, accruing new debt due to poor alignment with husband.
  • Dave (47:00): “Your system of getting out of debt is not going to work until both of you decide you’re going to get out of debt. He has not decided that.”
  • Advice: Combine finances, joint budget, drastic lifestyle changes, cut up all credit cards, throw everything extra at the debt; if not on the same page, seek marital counseling.
  • Quote: “Your hopelessness is not logical. Unless you believe he’s really not going to stop, in which case you need to go see a marriage counselor.” (51:47)

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8. How Much Should We Spend on a Honeymoon?

• Caller Nicole, NY: Planning a $25,000 Italian honeymoon; both are young (29) and high earners.
  • Dave (56:59): “You make half a million dollars a year and you're 29...If you threw $25,000 out the window...it wouldn’t ruin your life.”
  • Principles: Check spending’s % of income/wealth, and ensure generosity levels are high. They pass both tests—enjoy!

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9. Co-Buying a House While Unmarried–Don’t

• Caller Tim, NY: Wants to buy a home with a girlfriend before marriage.
  • Dave (60:36): “Please don’t buy a house with someone you’re not married to...if you want to buy a house with her, you need to marry her first.”
  • Ken (62:17): “You just don’t want to end up in a real life Jerry Springer episode, you know.”

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10. Debt-Free Scream: A Model Couple

• Matthew & Ann, Knoxville: Paid off $350,000 (including house) in 8 years, ages 35, income grew from $52k to $92k, now $200k in retirement savings.
  • Dave (67:30): “You’re going to be millionaires by the time you’re 40 and have a paid for house by 35. Y’all are weird. Yes! I love it.”
  • Debt-Free Scream: "Three, two, one...WE’RE DEBT FREE!” (72:57)

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11. Career and Financial Roles–Wife as Breadwinner

• Caller Ann, Minneapolis: Makes significantly more than husband (135k vs 100k), wants to eventually stay home with new baby, but needs her benefits and income for now. Husband is a CPA but feels career-capped.
  • Ken (78:27): “He doesn’t lack motivation; he lacks clarity...He needs to see clarity in the future.”
  • Advice: Explore new career paths for him; Ken gifts them a career clarity book/assessment. Don’t get trapped by temporary facts.

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12. Windfall With a Short Timeline–Stage 4 Cancer and Fantasy Football Winnings

• Caller Rob, Los Angeles: Has $100,000 windfall from fantasy football but is terminally ill, family has been scraping by on disability, wife likely unable to support herself fully when he's gone.
  • Dave (91:14): “What I would use the hundred thousand for is to cause her to get trained or certified in whatever it is she's going to do to raise these two kids.”
  • Strong Advice: Don’t gamble the money; invest it into practical training/certification for wife to secure a decent income after he’s gone.
  • Ken (92:59): “We're saying...something very practical, doesn’t take very long to get qualified, allows her to make a very decent living…”

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13. Massive Student Loan Debt, Big Earning Potential

• Caller Umberto, OKC: Graduating soon as nurse anesthetist, $275k student loan, soon-to-be fiancé has another $275k; will both earn ~$300k each.
  • Dave (98:29): “Yeah, absolutely [pay it off ASAP]...There’s nobody dumber with money than doctors. Perpetually stupid with money...Don’t be a stupid doctor.”
  • Advice: Live on very little, pay off loans super fast, and set self up for incredible wealth—"You could be worth $20 million, blow your mind.”

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14. Inspiration and Perspective: John O’Leary’s Story–Soul on Fire

• Guest: John O’Leary: Burn survivor and motivational speaker with new movie "Soul on Fire"
  • John (111:22): "Your life is a precious, priceless gift...You got one job now. It is to say yes to being used for good."
  • Dave (113:19): “The movie is Soul on Fire. It's in theaters Oct 10. I will give you my personal guarantee you will be glad you took the time and the little bit of money out of your pocket.”
  • Message: No matter your past or scars, your future is alive with possibility if you keep moving forward with faith.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On excuses and waking up:
  • “What scares me more than the debt is that you just now woke up...That scares me more than the debt.” — Dave (07:36)
• On clarity with family boundaries:
  • “To be unclear is to be unkind. The way you people have been conflict avoiding has created a tangled barrel of fish hooks.” — Dave (19:00)
• On emergencies:
  • “Anytime folks are facing a storm, you push pause and pile cash up, then when the sun comes out, push play.” — Dave (23:46)
• On spousal roles in business:
  • “She’s taken more ground than she has been given...unless she comes down and gets on payroll…” — Dave (35:25)
• On shared marriage finances:
  • “I'm sorry, you don't have a car payment? ... So you have $62,000 in credit card debt. I'm sorry, you don't have a car payment?" — Dave (46:54)
• On windfalls and legacy:
  • “Your provision to me is to set up a sustainable provision.” — Dave (95:03)
• On hope and transformation:
  • “You have to honor this desire to be a stay at home mom. You don’t have to do it right away, but we’ve got to clear up.” — Ken (81:19)
• On money after major setbacks:
  • “It’s hard to talk about...but not talking about it is probably not a plan.” — Dave (95:03)
• On debt-free journeys:
  • “You’re going to be millionaires by the time you’re 40 and have a paid-for house by 35. Y’all are weird. Yes! I love it.” — Dave (67:30)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:27] Joe’s debt and marriage dilemma
• [10:43] Gene’s property and family dispute
• [22:29] Military spouse and emergency fund
• [28:53] Inherited IRA tax rules
• [34:02] Family/business boundaries question
• [40:51] Expectant couple, medical concerns & finances
• [45:07] Liz’s family in debt cycle
• [55:09] Big-spending honeymoon question
• [60:18] Buying a house before marriage?
• [66:21] Debt-free scream: Matthew & Ann
• [76:30] Ann, balancing breadwinning and home
• [87:41] Terminal illness, windfall planning
• [97:12] Nurse anesthetists: huge debt, huge income
• [107:41] John O’Leary’s Soul on Fire – inspiration

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Tone & Takeaway

The episode is candid, compassionate, and relentless in urging listeners to cut through excuses, own mistakes, and face forward with actionable hope. Dave’s signature blend of southern humor, tough love, and practical wisdom pairs with Ken’s encouraging guidance and empathy, while live callers share authentic, often raw, struggles and victories.

The show promotes a single overarching message:
No matter your past mistakes or current challenges, you can choose today to align your behavior, take control, confront problems with clarity, and change your financial destiny.

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For more information and tools mentioned in the show, visit www.ramseysolutions.com

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, number one best selling author host of of the breakaway hit on Ramsey network called Front row seat. He is my co host today. Open phones a triple 882-55-5225 so you guys watching Front row seat and pulling it up. Ken, you did a really cool recording yesterday. They're not going to want to miss my, my good friend Willie was here.

[Ken Coleman]

Willie Robertson of Duck Dynasty fame in town. It was so fun. He's in town to hang with you apparently.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we had dinner with Pat last night. That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

So fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just, he's just, he's become a close friend over the last several years but, but I think on front row Seat you guys are going to be very entertaining. Entertaining?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we got fun stories.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everything you have to do with Willie's always entertaining.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dinner with Willie's entertaining.

[Ken Coleman]

I surprised him with a photo, that's all we'll say. Gave him an envelope, told him to open it and we legitimately, we did some great research. He was delighted and surprised. Let's put it this way, it was from Willie's athlet athletic past. And what people don't realize is that Willie's a sneaky good athlete according to his brother Jace. And you know Willie can hit the COVID off a golf ball, can knock.

[Dave Ramsey]

It a mile, 300 yard drives. It's nuts. Yeah, it's nuts. And that always surprised me too. Yeah, because I mean usually guys wearing camo don't hit a golf ball that far. But yeah, just what do I know. But he's, he can, he's serious and we bit competitive too. Little, little chirpy on the golf course. I imagine he can get under somebody's skin. I hit the ground on a warm up swing and he goes hey Ramsey 811 call for you. Dig so ouch. It's four and a half hours of that. I'm just saying. So there you go. Hey, it's going to be great. Check it out. Willie Robinson coming up in the next few weeks. It'll drop on front row seat recorded yesterday. Joe is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hi Joe, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, I'm doing well guys, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, recently my girlfriend I have been talking about getting married and I had always known that There was a discrepancy between me having some debt and her having some money. And I've always been trying to postpone getting married because I was trying to take care of the things on my end. And so recently I really got into you guys and started digging in the numbers and found out what I really owed. Kind of spooked me a little bit. Wasn't quite as a lot more than I thought it was.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much?

[Caller]

$230,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

On what?

[Caller]

Dude, most of it is in student loans. How much you got? 180 of it's in student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're a doctor or a lawyer.

[Caller]

Soon to be a doctor, but not. Not a medical one. So work through an MBA and a PhD business. PhD because I wanted to go and teach.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And. And coach. Coach golf in college. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

So now we're in this situation and we're starting to think about it more. And she's been asking me a lot of questions about. I used to be a financial advisor. She's been asking me a lot of questions about stuff. She. I just told her, like, she needs to look into the things that you guys have. I suggested that she go and talk to, you know, to somebody else. Things have changed, laws have changed, and obviously I haven't managed money as well as I would have would like. Before I start giving people advice, what's.

[Dave Ramsey]

The other 50,000 in debt?

[Caller]

It's. It's a car, a little bit of credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe on the car?

[Caller]

The car? 34,000 on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you do for a living? You're working on your PhD and that's your job now?

[Caller]

No, no, I work in. In retail. I manage a bunch of retail stores.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your income?

[Caller]

120 is my salary.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you've been asleep at the wheel for quite a while and just in the last few weeks, woke up.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. I'm just making sure I'm getting the full picture here. Okay, cool. Yeah.

[Caller]

And so she's in. She's in a really good spot. I've never really known what she's had. I've never really been interested in it, but since she's been asking me all these questions lately, she was asking some questions about raw versus, you know, just a regular 401k. And we've been talking through that stuff, and one day she was looking through some stuff, and I, you know, she was like, well, this is what I have invested in this and that. And I was like, wow, this is just. It's really cool. You put yourself in a good position. I mean, she's got a net worth of about a million dollars, and she's not. Not quite 40 yet. And she's making, you know, about 160 a year as well. So we've been talking and I just was like, hey, you know, like, what do you want to do about this? Because I don't. I hope that we're together forever. I don't ever want to put her in a bad position. I love the woman. And I'm just trying to figure out, like, should we consider if we do get married at prenup, or should I just. Should we wait until I get this debt paid off? That's what's kind of what my question is. I'm figure out what's the best thing to do to protect her.

[Ken Coleman]

What's her, what's her take? What's her take on this?

[Caller]

Well, I mean, we just. We just started talking about this, like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but what did she say?

[Caller]

Well, she just said she's like, I understand that it may take you a little while to be able to pay this stuff off. And so if it takes a while and we have to wait, then that's fine. But that's really. With her whole. Her whole thing on that never just said, like, do you want to wait until, you know, I get this paid off or do you want to try to do it a separate way? You know, I asked her, like, should we consider potentially doing and get a prenup? And she was like, well, I never really considered that. I never even thought of it before. And I'm like, I know. And again, I hope it works out, but if some crazy reason it doesn't, I would hate for, like, you know, to feel like I'm supposed to get half of your stuff when I'm coming in with nothing and you're coming out with a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, we're going to poor in sickness and in health. If you're going to share a bed and a life together for the next 50 years, you're going to share assets and liabilities for the next 50 years if you're going to have a high quality marriage and a high probability of building wealth. Now, I'm assuming as a professor with a PhD. When, when will you complete your PhD?

[Caller]

I'll have another year, probably a year, not a. Well, depends on how long the dissertation takes, but probably about a year and a half left.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you'll be making at least what you're making now as a college professor after that, right?

[Caller]

Certainly. And I have flexibility within my schedule that I thought I'd be able to actually do both because there's a lot of options online to be able to teach courses that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your income could go up substantially then. Certainly at that point, I would expect.

[Caller]

It to go up at least 100.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have never told in the 30 years plus we've been on the air told someone to not have a baby because of debt or to not get married because of debt. We have told people to not get married if you can't get aligned on how we feel about life, careers saving, debt, and so forth. And so if I'm her, what scares me more than the debt is that you just now woke up.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you were asleep. That scares me more than the debt. If you told me I've been scratching and clawing at this and beating on it for seven months and I'm getting there. And I've already paid off 50,000. I'm very aware, problem aware. And the problem's in my mirror. I'd be a lot more comfortable if I'm her. And no prenup is needed. But prenup's not going to help in this case. There's not enough differences to do it. So I think when you guys get comfortable with each other's values and where you're going enough to get married after you get back from the honeymoon, she writes checks and we pay off all your debt. But your debt should be largely gone by then because it's going to take a little while for you to prove to her that you're awake.

[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Foreign thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Gene is in Savannah, Georgia. Hi Gene, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you? Better than we deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

Okay, so this is a little bit of a crazy story, but I'll try to make it as easy to follow. 10 years ago my father in law passed away. We he didn't have a will, but we were able to sell his property with an affidavit of heirship and a deed without warranty. So we sold the house to an old family friend. This married couple in the last 10 years has divorced. The wife moved on, the husband stayed in the house. He passed away early last year. Friday night we all started receiving phone calls that this property was about to be foreclosed on for unpaid property taxes. And we all wondered what that had to do with us. Well, they never filed the deed so the house is still technically under my father in law's name. So we've tracked down the ex wife, she doesn't want anything to do with the property. She's happy to sign the property over to my husband and my sister in law, the only two kids of my father in law and same thing with my mother in law, they were divorced. She doesn't want anything to do with the house. So everybody's on board that it just goes to my husband and my sister in law. So we are planning on selling the property and splitting the proceeds. But where the issue comes in is when they were in high school they had a friend who liked to hang out at their house more than his own house. So they started calling him brother. Well, 20 years ago my husband went into the Marine Corps. We lent him money, he never paid us back and he cut us off because he didn't pay us back. So he cut us off. My husband was deploying, he was trying to reach out to him. He would never answer his calls. So we haven't had any relationship with him until 10 years ago when my father in law died. And then he, my sister in law, my mother in law decided that he would get a cut of the house when we sold it because he's a quote unquote brother. Well, we still haven't talked to him in 10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did he get a cut the first time it sold.

[Caller]

Yes, he did. Okay, so they split it four ways. So now everything legally is just in my husband and my sister in law's names because they're kids. So everyone's on board. We're selling it. It's gone up in value three and a half times because it's in Dallas County. So it's worth anywhere from 75 to $100,000 now just for the land. So my sister in law is thinking we're going to split this three ways.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we're not.

[Caller]

With the quote unquote, brother.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we're not.

[Caller]

And that's how my sister. Yeah, that's how my husband feels.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No, we're not.

[Caller]

I don't know when we have this conversation with her.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't. Your husband does. It's his sister, not yours.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

He sits down with her and says, I'm not doing this. He stiffed me. He's not a brother. He's not in this deal. He already got more than he deserved with the first round. No, I'm not splitting with him. And if you don't like that, kiss my butt. I am not splitting with him.

[Caller]

And I know you're right. And I knew you were going to say that. And that's what everyone else has said. I think I'm the one handling everything. Like I said, my husband is a.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're not handling this. He's handling his sister, not you.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, I know. I mean, just with the. The paperwork side and finding out what they needed to do, and then she's just saying, you're so great, you're so wonderful. I'm so blessed by you. And so it's just eating me up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Knowing it doesn't need to eat you up. You haven't done anything. There's nothing to eat up. This is an unreasonable, crazy but request, and we're not doing it. It's ridiculous. It was ridiculous. It was done the first time. And what's really ridiculous is that y' all are ending up with this property again. And would you, for God's sakes, have a lawyer close the deal this time so that it's done right? Y' all people. You people suck at business, don't you? I mean, this is horrible.

[Caller]

We're not a lawyer.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, if you're. If you had a lawyer, he should be in jail for. For malpractice. How do you do? How do you, years later, discover a deed is not recorded? Come on.

[Caller]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. This is crazy. So we have to do this properly this time. I Don't want to ever see this piece of property again. It needs to go away. Because your name or your husband's name is in the paper right now for unpaid property taxes.

[Caller]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How in the world. That's the most. I've done thousands of real estate transactions. I've never heard one that was this bad. This sucks. Yeah. You guys, really. I mean, how. And you. And the irony is you end up back with it. And I'm not sure how many different signatures you've got to get from God. Who has equity of title in. This is Georgia. Yeah. You need a really good lawyer and you need somebody that's ready to write title insurance on this process, this time, so that we are ensuring that this title is properly transferred. Y'.

[Ken Coleman]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y' all are. But honey, you. You don't. Your. Your husband just simply sits down his sister and says, no, I'm not. You know, boy child, you got all he's going to get.

[Ken Coleman]

It's like Eddie Haskell gone awry. There's a whole generation of people have no idea what I'm talking about. Look that up. But the fact that he got money the first time around, to me is absolutely ludicrous. Just because he enjoyed spending time over there and they felt bad for this guy. There's a backstory that we're not aware of. We didn't have time to get to. I'm guaranteeing it. But at this point, her husband was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Expecting you to say that you did the DNA and ancestry and found out he was actually a brother.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. But this is just.

[John O'Leary]

This is.

[Ken Coleman]

This is like some guy who just hung around like a bad penny.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I. I got a feeling. I got a. Mama knows something she ain't saying. But I may be wrong. Yeah. Oh, there's. This is just wicked.

[Ken Coleman]

Be like a Lifetime miniseries.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's not on Hallmark, I can tell you that.

[Ken Coleman]

That's the truth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, cray cray.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah. Moral of the story is bad deals have a high rate of resurrection. They do. When you do something that's a bad idea, it does not go away.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It comes back again. It's like a bad penny, so to speak.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, I have a follow up question because I think this affects a lot of people. Not this situation, but I think the fear of confrontation, Dave, is what's underneath this whole deal, besides all the bad business. And you and I, it's very clear for us, it's very black and white. We know exactly what we would say. But we, you know, we eat confrontation for breakfast. How would you coach somebody like this husband? He's sitting here and he's not getting it. He's terrified to have this conversation with his sister to disappoint the. The friend who's been gone for a decade. What would you say to somebody who has a really hard time stepping into this confrontation? How would you coach him?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a great question. I here, you know, when I first started our business, I thought as a Southern Christian guy that I was supposed to be nice to everybody. And how that ended up translating was I was nice to people when I shouldn't have been. And so I didn't tell them the truth. You know, like, you're not doing your job well. And so I'm frustrated. The poor guy doesn't even know he's not doing his job well. And so we changed it around here. To be unclear is to be unkind. If you work for Ramsey, we're gonna be real clear with you. We're not gonna be mean. We're not gonna cuss and yell and scream and throw stuff at you, but if something's going on, we're gonna tell you. To be unclear is ultimately to be unkind because there's a whole bottled up resentment at mom and sister. For the first time, goober got money. And so you've been unkind to everybody else in the family by not standing up and being clear that this is wrong. And so when you stand on principle and you tell the truth, kindly, gently, forcefully, boldly, there's a cleanliness to it. And the way you people have been conflict avoiding has created a tangled barrel of fish hooks. And you don't want to live in a barrel of fish hooks. You want to live in a clean land. A land of cleanliness and conflict. Positive good conflict will bring that for you.

[Ken Coleman]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I have awesome friends, I got a great faith, and I have an amazing wife and family. I've also got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well. And yet the times that I've spent with great therapists over the years have made all the difference for me. The right therapist can change everything about your mental, emotional, and relational health. And this month, my friends at Better Help are shining the spotlight on the therapists, the people who truly make the world a better place. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provide provider in the world. And BetterHelp works. They have an average rating of 4.9 out of 5. They work. Plus, BetterHelp is totally online so it's easy to fit into your schedule. To get started, just answer a few simple questions and BetterHelp will connect you with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. This month we celebrate the therapists who've helped millions of people take the next right step. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E-L-P.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

The all new every dollar is here. And it's way more than just a world class budget app. There's a ton of advanced features in the new version to help you make faster progress with your money on the Ramsey plan. We're not only going to help you do a budget, we're going to help you do the budget in such a way that you apply and work the baby steps and work the whole Ramsey plan. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. Start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or at Google Play. Elizabeth is in Virginia Beach. Hi Elizabeth, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good, I'm good. How are you guys? Thank you, Dave and Ken for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So for a little background, I'm currently a stay at home mom. I work a couple times a month and my husband's in the military. We currently have our mortgage and a car loan. The car loan is $12,000 and the interest rate on that is 1.6. We have a $12,000 emergency fund and after listening to your show pretty religiously over the last only few weeks, but we thought perhaps we should be taking that 11,000 from our emergency fund to pay off our car. However, with the current permanent shutdown, we are just wondering if we should maybe put a pause on that route until we're absolutely sure he's going to get paid.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, he's going to get paid and he'll get paid all the way through. It's just a matter of when. Yeah. So when they reopen, they'll, they'll cover all the back pay. They're not going to skip a check. But right now you're not getting anything, correct?

[Caller]

Yeah, we just have, I'm working a couple times a month, so we still have a little bit coming in, but we just wanted to, we don't want to drain our emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're not Working the baby steps. Right now, you're in the middle of a storm. You push pause on everything and pile cash up and, and eat and keep the lights on and don't buy anything.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And just hold, hold on until the storm goes by. Now, when the storm goes by, you push play, which that day you would take all but a thousand out of your emergency fund, apply it to the car, and start working your baby steps. Right.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But only, only after he starts getting his pay.

[Caller]

Yeah, we were thinking like before the shutdown happened, we were thinking like, should we do the 11,000 and pay it off or should we just throw, like, you know, extra payments from.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you should pay it off.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not right now, not until he gets paid. But once he's getting paid, you need to work the baby steps. The way we talk about.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not going to shut it down again for a while once they open it up. So you're going to be okay.

[John O'Leary]

Okay.

[Caller]

I love to hear it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, they can't. It's not how it works. So they're not going to kick the can down the road for four days. It's going to be months or years or whatever. So.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, yeah, but for right now, I would push pause. Anytime folks are facing a storm, you're you, you know, you push pause and you pile cash up to get ready for the storm, whatever the storm is. And then when the storm subsides to get the other side of the sun comes out, push play again. You drain all that cash that you've stacked up, throw it at your smallest to largest debt in that order and get going again and get the whole thing moving. Ken, I'm seeing a lot of emails coming into our customer care from government employees who have worked our system for years. And they're smiling, they're saying, I am not affected by not getting a paycheck for a week or two because I have plenty of money and I have no debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's true. I mean, this is why you really have an emergency fund here. This is what we'd call a big, big emergency when you have maybe a two week or a month. Just for historical context, to calm a lot of people, because I know a lot of people look to us for financial advice in the midst of the headlines. And this is right out of the headlines before we came on today in a press conference, Trump did say he threw it out there. Maybe we don't pay back pay. So this has been said by the president. So people start getting real uptight and I understand it's your paycheck, but this is why the three to six months emergency fund is so vitally important. But to give historical context, since 1981 there have been four major government shutdowns. The longest one in 2019 for just over a month. So most of the time this is all political posturing. Both parties. I'm not taking a position, so that way nobody needs to get mad. What happens happens is they're leveraging. And this is a bit of a poker contest as to who gets what in this next continuing resolution, Bill. So hang in there. Historically, Dave, we've never seen one longer than a month. We'll see where it goes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that was under the cat, under Captain Bluff, who's in the office now. I mean, he will bluff anything. He'll look at a rock and bluff it. I never saw anything like it. So it's a great point. I mean, he's just unbelievable. But yeah. So, you know, don't, don't play chicken with this guy. Right. He'll run over you. So whether you agree with him or not, I mean, this is, this is the pattern.

[Ken Coleman]

True.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's not a real good negotiator. He's really good at running over things and calling it negotiating.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So hang in there.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't get too hung up on the headlines.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nah.

[Ken Coleman]

Both parties need this deal to happen and they're the ultimate. Both sides of the aisle, they are all about preserving themselves. So once the public gets hot enough or the issue becomes too much of a, of a toxic take thing for their base, then they start to cave in. So I've just seen too many of these. Don't freak out. Just take it from me on this one. Don't freak out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Never. I mean, you know, control what you.

[Ken Coleman]

Can control is what we've been teaching.

[Dave Ramsey]

Always control the controllables. And when you're facing drama or trauma, facts are your friends. What are the facts? The facts are there's only been a handful of these ever since 1981. And that's a long time. Like what, 50 years now, right? And so the last 50 years, four or five times. And one time under this same president, in 2019, it stayed down for an entire month, which is on. That was unprecedented at the time.

[Ken Coleman]

And the sad thing about this is, Dave, is it affects our good men and women of the military like her. A lot of great federal employees, you hate it for our federal employees. But I challenge any of you over the next week to find something that has negatively affected your life if you're not in that camp, because I'm not minimizing it. But those of us who don't draw a paycheck from the federal government, it's hard to find evidence that it's been shut down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. True, true. Craig's in San Antonio. Hi, Craig. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I have two inherited retirement accounts. I've had them for about two years now. All my research and discussions with the financial institutions that they're with show that I have to withdraw the money in 10 years and that it's basically a taxable event every time. And I'm trying to figure out how to minimize the tax hit on this. I was hoping there'd be something easy like converting it to an IRA of my own or maybe putting it in my daughter's 529. But nope, as far as I can tell, it's just all taxable the whole way.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have gotten correct information, sir.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The only thing that could. The only thing that could have been done is if it was converted to a Roth before the person died.

[Caller]

Right. It's a traditional.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's a traditional. That's why you're under the Biden Secure act, passed under Joe Biden. And the Secure act calls for it to be liquidated within 10 years. And so, I mean, you could take out a tenth a year and maybe not have a tax bracket creep. What's it invested in?

[Caller]

It's about two thirds in a growth fund stock, and the rest of it is in a bond fund and then an S&P 500 fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is in there?

[Caller]

About 550.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It's a lot. Well, it's a blessing to get that. It's sad it's all taxable, but it is. And so who left it to you? Your dad or mom or somebody?

[Caller]

My father?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So you're really not paying your taxes. You're paying the taxes that he had never paid yet.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's all it is. So he though that money's never been taxed because it was put in pre tax and it's grown without tax on it until you withdraw it and you get the benefit of withdrawing it. So what I would do is run some numbers with your Smartvestor Pro, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor and find a Smartvestor Pro in your area. Sit down and go. Okay. I want to get this into good mutual funds, and I want a withdrawal system. Do I need to do it over 10 years or can I just do it all at once and get it over with? How much is it? What's the difference if I do that? It's probably not a lot, but it is all ordinary income, so it'll just depend on the bracket creep.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

Today's question comes from Tanner in South Carolina. My wife of seven years and I disagree on how my business should be run. I Own a photography and videography company that I've had for 10 years. I've built this business from the ground up, and it's my baby. My wife believes that it's our business now that we are married and that she should be able to make decisions on whether I can book a certain job or not or how I communicate with my customers. She's also having an opinion on how much I charge my customers and how I process the final product. I'm glad to work with her on a number of jobs that I book, which impacts our time together. But I draw the line on how I run my business day to day. Am I wrong for wanting to run the business I built my way? I'm sorry I had to get through that without laughing. I know you're not wrong in. It was very hard for me to get through that, Dave. No, you're not wrong wanting to run the business you built. I mean, now, obviously your wife, she. She has an opinion. I think she's entitled to her opinion. But that doesn't mean that her opinion should sway the way you run the business. If you guys didn't enter into this business together, again, I say on your personal finances and all that, a hundred percent. But in this situation, I don't know why I'm laughing. I feel bad for you. This is a tough situation here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds like she's a handful.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. This is tricky. Really tricky.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No, here's how you can parse it out. This will help you. There's a lot of really good data and academic teaching on small business. One of the fathers or grandfathers of that space is a guy named John Ward, who wrote a little book called Family Business. In the little book, he has a Venn diagram with three circles. Owner, family and worker, or team member. And they overlap the three circles of Venn diagram. A classic Venn diagram. Right. And so someone can be an owner, someone can be a family member, someone can be a team member, and someone can be all three or two of those things. You are all three. She is not. She's one of the owners and she's a family member, but she is not a team member. Okay, now here's how that works. In other words, she speaks into the business as a spouse because she doesn't work there, which is not operational control. Now, if you're a wise man from a standpoint of running a business and from a standpoint of being married, you will listen to her counsel and sometimes take it. Proverbs 31 says, who can find a virtuous Wife for her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain. Sharon Ramsey has some opinions about things that we do at Ramsey, but she does not tell us where to order copier paper and she does not develop marketing strategy and she does not enter her discussion into pricing unless I ask her about pricing on, oh, we're getting ready to take the price up on these books because everybody else has. Oh, yeah, well, we probably ought to do that, but that's my wife speaking into my business. It is not a member of the team that is down here working every day speaking into the operations. She has gotten confused. She has taken more ground than she has been given. Okay? So unless she comes down there and gets on the payroll and becomes the CEO or the COO or something else, at that point, she would be all three things and she would be, rightly speaking, into the day to day operations of the business. But otherwise she's just your spouse talking to her spouse and saying, hey, if I were you, here's how I would do it. And I think this is wise. But I think she's gotten confused about her place on this. And it's not a woman's place, it's a man's place, either one. Roles could be reversed. You should talk to your husband, ladies, if you're running a business and get their input on some things. But they don't need to come down there and talk about which customers we take or so forth, unless you ask them. I mean, if I'm having a customer that's high maintenance or kind of got a, you know, problem or something, I might discuss that with my wife and she may go, well, I wouldn't put up with that crap. And I go, you know what? That's kind of what I was thinking. I'm not gonna put up with it either. Okay? And, but, but that's different than you're an idiot for running the business the way you've run it for 10 years and I'm gonna come in here and show you how to do it. Although I don't actually work there and I really don't even know what the flip I'm talking about, which is the way this chick sounds.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Out of control.

[Ken Coleman]

I wish I knew more. I wish this was a phone call. What I would be attempting to do is find an area where she's super excited in the business and give her more input there, Maybe some, a little bit more control there, as long as it's not affecting the day to Day.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I wouldn't.

[Ken Coleman]

I know you wouldn't. I'm saying I try to find it. I didn't say it. Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would ask her input as my spouse, and I want to trust the input of my virtuous wife. Well, therefore, I will have no lack of gain. But part of being virtuous is not acting this way. Right.

[Ken Coleman]

But she's given input on everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. Like you're.

[Ken Coleman]

He laid out the entire business she's given input on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, product design, pricing, which customers to take, what schedule to run. That's ops control. That's a coo. That's not spousal control. And unless you work there, you shouldn't be speaking into that. Yeah, you shouldn't assume that you're speaking.

[Ken Coleman]

I think a marriage therapist might be in order on this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah, I think. Yeah, I think you're probably right about that. We won't disagree on that one. If you're a business owner or a leader and you got a question about running a business, including family business, as you can tell, I got lots of opinions, and I'm right. You can. You can join us on the Entree leadership podcast that I do where I take calls from small business people about business questions. 844-9441 or go to entree leadership.com ask and fill out the formal call and make you a caller on the Entree podcast.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, that particular stuff like that, if that were a real call with both of them with you, that'd be absolute YouTube gold. It would melt the Internet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I've done plenty of them with family business. I can tell you had some really interesting ones over the years. Jared is in New York City. Hi, Jared, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey. How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So thanks for taking my call. So some last couple weeks have been a little bit of. A little bit of a whirlwind. So my wife is pregnant early on in pregnancy, so super excited about that. 14 weeks along.

Yay.

Where it's been a bit of a whirlwind is they found something that as long as more tests to come, but, you know, God willing, everything else is okay. It's something that when the baby's born, may need some surgery now or is expected to need some surgery now. Nothing, you know, more than routine again, as long as everything else is okay. So, you know, I am, you know, grappling with that, of course, on the mental side of things, but, you know. Yeah. So my wife and I are, though, Currently going through baby step two. So there's a financial question on how to plan. You know, I was thinking like setting up a sinking fund for kind of approximations of what it could potentially be while still paying off debt. Just kind of not sure even where to start.

[Dave Ramsey]

We tell folks when they're having a baby to push pause and don't work on the baby steps and pile up cash. And when baby and mama come home, we pay the bills and what's left, we push play again and apply it to your debt snowball. So I want you to stop right now and just pile. How big a pile of cash can you make? You can't make it to one too big because you're going to put it all on debt if you don't use it on the baby, right? In. In just a few. I mean. And now about seven months, right?

[Caller]

About.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

A little less.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so six months, whatever. I mean, so for six months we're going to pile cash, baby and mama come home, we pay whatever bills the insurance does not pay because you got copay and you got deductibles to meet, right? And then whatever's left after the baby and mommy are home safe and sound, and then you're ready to go and you just push play again and you apply it right down through there and takes your breath away. Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, you'll make it. Kids are expensive. Just deal with it. But you'll make it. I promise.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just. Man, nothing scares you more than a baby.

[Ken Coleman]

It's the truth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Foreign. Let's face it, health insurance today is more complicated than ever. The system isn't built to help the average person understand, and it leaves too many families unprotected. That's why you need my friends at Health Trust Financial. They aren't just brokers. They're trusted health insurance advisors who have been helping families like yours for over 20 years. You don't have to navigate it alone. The experts at Health Trust Financial listen to your needs, work to understand your family situation and budget, then help you choose the health insurance plan that's right for you. That's why they're Ramsey trusted and why we've worked with them for two decades. Look, medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in America today. One hospital visit can wipe out your savings and undo all your hard work. So health insurance isn't optional. It's part of your financial defense plan. Health Trust Financial knows their stuff and they're the only health insurance provider I recommend. So get clear about health insurance plans and get the coverage that's right for [e-mail] welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman. Ramsey personality, best selling author and host of Front Row Seat, a big hit on Ramsey Network. He's my co host today. Liz is in Nashville. Hi, Liz, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I was calling because with me and my husband combined, we have a debt of 552,000. That includes our mortgage. But besides the mortgage, most of that debt is his. We're following your baby steps. We've been following it all year, but it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere. And if anything, right now we're back at the same amount that we had at the beginning of the year. I just don't know what to do. I don't know what to do anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. How could you get back into debt when you're getting out of debt? I'm confused.

[Caller]

Exactly. Yeah. Well, we've had situations with our cars come up and then he loves to use his credit cards for anything that comes up.

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so we're going into credit card debt while we're trying to get out of debt. So he's not really trying to get out of debt. He's running business as usual. And you're trying to get out of debt?

[Caller]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I have $11,000 of that. That is mine. But even, even myself right now, I. I just. I can't seem to get out of it. And I'm.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you said 562,000. How much of that is mortgage?

[Caller]

500,000 is mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what's the 62,000?

[Caller]

So 11,000 is mine, and then there's not a mine.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're married. The $11,000 on what?

[Caller]

It's basically just credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you have 11,000 on credit cards. What else is out there out of the 62?

[Caller]

It's all credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have $62,000 in credit card debt. I'm sorry, you don't have a car payment.

[Caller]

That's true. Just one car payment. We have. We have $1,000 left on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you owe $1,000 on a car, and what do you owe on your student loans?

[Caller]

We have no student loans. I paid off my car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you basically have $62,000 in credit card. $61,000 in credit card debt. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

I make 82 and he makes 80.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So $162,000 with a $500,000 mortgage. And how long ago were you zero credit cards debt?

[Caller]

Well, I was at zero credit cards last year. He's always had credit cards debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long have you been married?

[Caller]

We've been married for five years now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so when you're married, it's all hours. You understand me? Okay, so you were never at zero because he's always had credit cards? Because we have had credit cards. Because you are married to Mr. Credit Card.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you've been married five years, and we have always had credit card debt. How much credit card debt did he come into the marriage with?

[Caller]

I think at that point it was around maybe 70,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's maintained for about the last five years? About the same, yes. Okay, so in his past, he overspent, which is what the credit card came from. But we're just gonna. Okay, so how old are you guys?

[Caller]

He's 41 and I'm 30.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, Well, I. This is not a systems problem. This is a person problem. It's a behavior problem. Okay, so your system of getting out of debt is not going to work until both of you decide you're going to get out of debt. He has not decided that. And so you have a marriage issue. To sit down and talk to your husband and say, I want to get on the same page. I want us to get out of debt. And you can't tell me you want to get out of debt unless you put all the credit cards on the table and cut them up right now.

[Caller]

Yeah, we actually did that this weekend.

[Ken Coleman]

Two quick questions. Give me quick answers here. How long have you been trying to do the baby steps?

[Caller]

Since the beginning of this year.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, and then do you guys have separate finances? I'm guessing you do. The way you're talking, yes.

[Caller]

Yes, we do.

[Ken Coleman]

And then one other one I forgot. Does he use the credit card as just all of his expenses, and he's under the guise, I'm going to pay it off at the end of the month, but he never does. Is that what's going on? He's running everything through it.

[Caller]

He was, yeah. Not anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why did he agree to cut them all up last weekend?

[Caller]

I think it's because, you know, he's 41, and I'm just. I'm disappointed. I mean, I just. I can't take it anymore. You know, I have never had debt, and I have even racked up 11,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, stop a minute. Okay, I get all that. But he cut up the credit cards. Last weekend. And then you called me and said, he keeps going into credit card debt. But it sounds like this guy turned the corner last weekend, said, I'm getting out of debt. I cut them all up. I'm confused about what you're upset about.

[Caller]

I guess because I didn't. I thought the number was lower than what it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you knew that last weekend.

[Caller]

Yeah, but I'm at a point where I don't know what to do. I can't pay off what we owe. I just don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, you can. You make $162,000. You only need $62,000 to pay all this off. So you live on 100 and you are debt free in one year. Voila. It's fairly easy. It's $5,000 a month and you are debt free in one year. The two of you sit down and do a budget together. Combine your stinking finances and get on the same page and go. Going to put $5,000 a month on this debt because you cut up the credit cards. And I'm over this. I can't sleep. I'm terrified. I'm done with all this irresponsibility, and you are, too. Thank you for cutting up the credit cards. Let's get on this and lock arms and let's attack this thing and be done. That's how you do it. You make enough money to pay this off in one year, easy.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you can't live on $100,000 in Nashville, something's wrong with you.

[Caller]

Well, I don't. I've tried. I've tried, and it just doesn't add up. With daycare, with everything. It just doesn't add up.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your house. No, I know what your house payment is. Yes, you have not done a budget. Because the math you're giving me is just not factual. Okay? You don't. You can pay daycare and eat and pay your house payment out of $100,000. That's $8,000 a month. Quit your 401k if you're getting a refund. Reset your W2s and quit getting a tax refund. Cash out, save money you've got in savings, chop up the credit cards and attack this. So there's something. Liz, your hopelessness is not logical. Unless you believe he's really not going to stop, in which case you need to go see a marriage counselor. But if he is, if he's acting like I'm talking about. And he goes, yeah, we're going to live on beans and rice. Rice and beans. We're going to stop the 401ks. We're not going on any vacations. We're going to sell so much stuff, the kids are afraid they're next. We're getting extra jobs. We're going to live on a written budget. The two of us are agreeing together. I just cut up the credit cards. Boom. 5,000 bucks a month goes on this. That's $60,000 a year. That leaves me a hundred thousand to live on. Shut up and do it. That's what it takes right there. You just got to go do this now. But you can't. You can't live in the past and be going, well, I get back to any. I don't care what. All we call that matters is the next, next 12 months. Game on, baby. Super Bowl. Put the ball in the end zone. Let's go. If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing. Because normal is broke. And I want you to be weird. That's why I love what we're doing with Fairwinds Credit Union. Our friends at Fairwinds just launched a brand new Ramsey debit card. And it says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. I love that because every time you swipe it, you're choosing to live differently with no credit card payments and no debt. You see, Fairwinds has been helping people like you ditch debt faster and build wealth for years. They're not trying to shove credit cards or auto loans in your face like the big banks do. And they've worked with us to create the smart bundle for Ramsey fans. It includes a. A no fee checking account, a high yield savings account to supercharge your emergency fund, and now the Ramsey debit card to help you stay focused on the baby steps. We're excited for you to try it. So check them out [e-mail] Ramsey that's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA. Nicole is in New York. Hi, Nicole. How are you?

[Caller]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

My fiance and I are trying to plan our honeymoon and we're trying to figure out how much money we think is appropriate to spend. Looking for guidance.

[Dave Ramsey]

When are you getting married?

[Caller]

Next August.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesome. Good for you.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah, very.

[Dave Ramsey]

So where. Where are you. Where are you wanting to go?

[Caller]

So we're looking to go to Italy around 10 or 11 days. Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very nice. So what's the budget on that? What's that going to Cost?

[Caller]

It's looking like around 25,000, but we are open to adjusting things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow.

[Caller]

Depending on what you say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow.

[Ken Coleman]

A lot of pressure, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

This is the honeymoon now.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a honeymoon. And it's Italy. There's a lot of good stuff happening here. Yeah. And my mouth's kind of watering right now, actually. I'm just saying. But all right, so I assume you're going to have 25,000 in cash to do this with. You're not going in debt?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you make? And what does he make a year?

[Caller]

I make around 200 and he makes around $300,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Sounds like you can afford it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Enjoy yourself, kids. Really?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. I mean, is there like. Do you have like $10 million in debt or something or.

[Caller]

We've no debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Dad, how old are you two high income earners?

[Caller]

29.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, you're killing it.

[Ken Coleman]

Is there something, information you're holding back from us? Because so far you're checking all the frugal you must be.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, I mean, you. I mean, you kind of know if you make a half million dollars a year and you're 29 years old, that you can do 25k. You already knew that, right?

[Caller]

Well, you never know. But. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

It just seems like sticker shock that you would spend that much. Is that what you're experiencing?

[Caller]

It seems like a lot of sticker shock. That's a lot of money.

[Ken Coleman]

Why don't you pay attention to what you're doing with that 25,000? Because that is. That's a pretty nice honeymoon. It's not like you're staying at the Red Roof Inn in Italy. All right, well, I mean, this is a nice experience. Yes. You got.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Awesome.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, then. I mean, savor this. This is your honeymoon.

[Caller]

Yeah, you're right.

Here's how we need this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's how Sharon and I know we're overspending. We look at two things. One is, what percentage of our world is this amount of money, meaning our net worth, our income. Okay. And this is a small percentage of your income.

[John O'Leary]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you took $25,000 and threw it out the window and watched the people on the street below run around like crazy, it would not ruin your life.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so spending it on something much more fun than that, it was not going to ruin your life. So if you told me you make $50,000 a year and you're gonna spend 25 now, we're gonna have a long discussion about how dumb that is. Right. Even though it's a wonderful trip, you can't afford it. It doesn't make sense. But you have another zero on that decimal, so you're in good shape. The second thing we measure against is we're always. If we give pause. This gave you pause. It made you stop and think. It was like a speed bump. It slowed you down. Anytime that happens, that means I need to slow down and check my generosity factor. Is my generosity still really high? And am I doing a good job with helping others with the money God has blessed me with? And if so, then this is a very minor amount of money and you pass both of those tests. You should go to Italy. I'll give you another possibility. They haven't been making this kind of money that long. It's new to them. And so it takes a little while to build the emotional muscle to spend more money on stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

She said that they're both very frugal. And I'm looking at Rachel's book over there. Know yourself, know your money. And she brilliantly lays out money styles and what affects that. So without doing too much digging, we know that they come from a background where maybe they didn't come from a lot of money and they've been successful. Maybe there's some scarcity going on, but all good reasons. In this case, because they're very, very frugal and they're going, hey, is this crazy?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, But. But what it also underscores is an emotional maturity because there's zero entitlement.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

We did not have Bradzilla on the phone going, I'm gonna get it in. It was none of that. Right? There was none of that Bradzilla stuff. This is more like, I've dreamed of this my whole life. Oh, well, shut up, Barbie. Seriously. How about you have the money and be a grownup? But this lady here, she's an incredible grownup up.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, there's no entitlement. None of that. It was the opposite of that. Yep. Very concerned and thoughtful and careful and wise and all of that. Very well done, kiddo. Proud of you. Enjoy it. Tim is in New York. Hi, Tim. How are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave.

Good.

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

So I have a question. My brother and I own a home together. We have a very good interest rate and we have a very cheap mortgage. I'm going to be looking to move out and buy another home with my girlfriend sometime next year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't do that.

[Caller]

Basically wondering.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, no, please don't buy a house with Somebody, please don't buy a house with somebody you're not married to.

[John O'Leary]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna get yourself up a creek, bud. Seriously, if you. If you want to buy a house with her, you need to marry her first.

[Caller]

Okay, Fair enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because here's the thing. Something happens. You're now in partnership with her mother.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Or she just decides she's going to take off and you can't find her, and you get to pay the payments and you can't sell it because you can't find your partner. And in this case, it is a literal partner, not a relational partner. So, yeah, no, please don't, don't, don't buy a house. Now, if you want to buy a house and she lives with you, that's a. That's your decision on how you have a roommate. But the legal and financial entanglements, when people shack up and start buying stuff together and sharing too much stuff, you really get all twisted up. And it's very, very, very difficult to undo. It's difficult enough when you use divorce to do it, but, man, we've taken some wicked, ugly situations on this show of people who bought a house or bought a car with their shacked up boyfriend or girlfriend, and then they can't find them or they die. And they're now partners with my. Well, she's not my mother in law because she never was in law, but I don't know who this chick is. It's my girlfriend's mother. Oh, my God. This is a really nightmarish scenario. And we run into that kind of stuff all the time, Tim. And it's just. We see all the times it didn't work, which is like most of the time. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You just don't want to end up in a real life Jerry Springer episode, you know, nobody's gonna bail you out. That makes for great tv. It's not fun to live through.

[Dave Ramsey]

Entertaining call on the Ramsey Show. But you don't want to be one of those. You want to be one of the wise people who said, no, I'm not gonna do that.

[Ken Coleman]

And we're getting those calls, I feel like consistently over the last six months where they're not married and they're trying to untangle it. It's a nightmare.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's. And, well, I mean, you can't find them or they don't. They don't talk to you or. And you know, how do you get out of this? You have to. To sue in court, to disband a general partnership with no partnership documents and it's very, very expensive to get the circuit court to give you relief and force the sale of this and force the other party to come in and sign the deed. Oh my gosh, it's a mess.

[Ken Coleman]

And by the way, I'll tee you up on this one too because I'm seeing this is happening or seeing data where more and more young people because they're reading too many headlines, too many tiktoks that they'll never be able to afford a home. Now we're talking platonic relationships. Three or four women or three or four dudes will go in and buy a house, split it three ways and think that they're getting ahead. And it's just. That's as goofy as I've ever seen. And that's happening on a regular basis now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, anything with two to four heads is a monster. Yeah, this is a bad plan. Any ship that won't sail is a partnership. So all of these things come into play, right? So now we don't, we don't do that. You buy houses with people you're married to. That's it. In your case, you did it with your brother. You're all probably going to get out of that one alive. It sounds like Tim, so that's good. But yeah, I would not purchase, I would rent. If you're going to live together and I don't recommend doing either of those. But if you're going to do it from a financial and legal entanglement standpoint and then after you're married, decide what to buy. And so, so let's keep these things in the right order. The right forced ranking.

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[Dave Ramsey]

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Matthew and Anne are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[Caller]

You?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do y' all live?

[Caller]

We're actually from Knoxville, Tennessee.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off?

[Caller]

We paid off $350,000.

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how long did that take?

[Caller]

It took us eight years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you and your range of income during that eight years.

[Caller]

We went from about 52,000 to about 92,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. What do y' all do for a living?

[Caller]

So I started out as a teacher for about 13 years and have moved into college construction, and I just went back to teaching fourth grade.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, fun. Good for you. Well done, you guys. So 350 over eight years. I'm guessing you guys paid off your house.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look at that. Some weirdos. Way to go, guys. No house payment.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the house worth? The house?

[Caller]

I think it's about 420 or 450.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. And how much have you guys built in your retirement nest egg?

[Caller]

We have about 200,000, I believe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesome. So on your way to baby steps, millionaires, and you're not that old. How are you? How old are you?

[Caller]

We're actually both 35 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow. Wow. So you're gonna be millionaires by the time you're 40 and have a paid for house by the time you're 35. Y' all are weird. Yes. I love it. I'm so proud of you. Way to go, guys. Way to go.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so you got to tell us, you know, what made you decide to take on the death plus get rid of the house?

[Caller]

A lot of it was when we got married. We went to Financial Peace University with our church. And after that, we were just determined we need to pay off our house as soon as we can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. What church do you go to?

[Caller]

We're at Calvary Knoxville now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Good.

[Caller]

Originally from California, but now here in Tennessee.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you got married in California?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that. What church was that that you took the glass?

[Caller]

We took that. It was Clovis Ev Free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, okay, cool. Very cool. Well, way to go Guys, I love it. So how long have you been married?

[Caller]

We've been married for seven years. No, eight years. Eight years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Eight years. Okay. So from the time you got married, you were just game on.

[Caller]

It was for sure. I mean, for her, it was just having that peace of mind. And for me, I got to kind of start nerding out on spreadsheets.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it. I like it. Way to go. Very cool.

[Ken Coleman]

What was the heart hardest part of this journey for you guys? Was there a struggle? And how did you get through it?

[Caller]

Honestly, I think for us, we've always had that goal of, okay, this, the house is going to come. And so we were just blessed moving across the state, that. Or not say across the country. And just kind of the focus was the house. I mean, I think the first time never really got bonus as a teacher. So when the bonus came from the new work that I'm at, I was like, oh, I can go buy something instead. It's like, okay, no, we've got to keep the goal in mind and instead just pay off the house. And then from there we can actually have a lot more fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. Because you can do anything you want now.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you're sitting here making 92 grand and killing it and no payments in the world. How's it feel to not have a house payment?

[Caller]

I don't know if it's fully hit yet. I mean, we paid it off last month. And so the first item of the budget item is with every dollar, it still says that mortgage on there. So I'm just excited to delete that line. And then from there just kind of see how what we were paying for the house is actually going stuff like to our kids college or just even having a little bit more fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, absolutely. So what's the first big thing you're gonna do to celebrate?

[Caller]

First big thing is upgrading my wife's car. It's a little old, and she needs to be driving style.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good. I like this man. Good plan. Good plan. So what are you gonna buy her? What is she gonna. What are you guys gonna buy her? She's. You buy her. But. Yeah, sorry.

[Caller]

She wants a Toyota RAV4.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, perfect. Okay, that'll be great. And what's the. What's the hooptie? You're getting rid of the old one?

[Caller]

2010 Toyota Camry. It only has about 170,000 miles.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, we. We have squeezed the juice out of that puppy.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, for a Camry that's only a third of its life, it's got a lot More left.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't get rid of them? No, they just keep going and going and going. Way to go, you guys. I'm so proud of you. Who was bragging on you? Who was cheering you on?

[Caller]

Oh, fans, families. We actually have some friends here that I got to. Because they're in the Nashville area. Got to come out and just celebrate with us today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's fun. Very good. Anybody tell you you were crazy while you were doing this?

[Caller]

Oh, I hear it all the time because we actually pay. We had to pay off. We had to buy another car from me to get around town. And when we told everybody we paid for cash, they're like, why? I mean, just can buy whatever you want, and I'll go buy something nicer. And it's like, no, this gets me what I need to do. And we had our goals, and we wanted just to kind of continue to live free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And the goal is, I don't have a stinking payment. Hello. Yes. That's sweet. Sweet. You can do anything you want to do, man. I'm proud of y'. All. You know, you're going to have so much money, it's going to be ridiculous. Are you the first ones in your families to be that be like this?

[Caller]

I don't know for sure. I think. I mean, my parents and her parents are. But I don't know, compared to the siblings, that I don't necessarily for sure know. I know credit cards were probably weird in that sense, that we don't have credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. Okay, cool. Cool.

[Ken Coleman]

One of the things I want to ask is I've coached a lot of teachers over the years who wanted to get out, and they didn't think they could because they didn't. They hadn't done anything else. Just real briefly, I think it would be helpful to some people. How did you make the transition from teaching to construction?

[Caller]

I think, honestly, it's your proximity process. I mean, I felt. I mean, teaching is definitely a calling. And I felt for a long time that that calling was teaching. Until I was like, okay, God laid something on my heart. And I just had a buddy of mine say, hey, hey, this fits what you're looking for. This is just kind of the criteria because I'm a. I'm a math teacher, and a lot of what I do now is data analysis and said, hey, take a look at this. And we just trusted God and made the leap.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. So the transferable skill here was math teacher move over into analytics and the data side of construction.

[Dave Ramsey]

Correct.

[Caller]

And it's for you it's kind of nice not to be just teaching the same thing over every day, every year. So it makes it even more fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

Good for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely, absolutely. And you brought the kiddos to celebrate with you.

[Ken Coleman]

We did.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, bring them up. Let's see their names and ages.

[Caller]

We have Ms. Nola Bell.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's six. All right. She's beautiful.

[Caller]

And then Nash was just three.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, big Nash, here we go. Those babies don't even understand how much their parents have completely changed their family tree. You guys are incredible. We're so proud of you. Very, very well done. All right, Matthew and Ann, Nola and Nashmy. Knoxville, Tennessee. $350,000 paid off in eight years, making 52 to 92. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Ken Coleman]

Ready?

[Caller]

Three, two, one.

We're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it. Well done, you guys. Very well done. Well, Ken, we do know from the largest study of millionaires ever done by Ramsey Research that's in the white papers in the back of the baby Steps Millionaires best selling book that the number one career choice of millionaires is engineer. Number two is accountant. Number three is teacher.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so we hear all the time from people that don't believe that. But you know, when you use data, we don't care if you believe it or not. I mean, if you don't believe in the law of gravity, try jumping off a building. You'll find the sidewalk. I mean, facts are facts, and that's a fact. And what we've discovered is that teachers are process driven, particularly a math teacher that does data analysis or process driven. And they were both dialed in. And for eight years they've made the steps, walked carefully and paid off the house and had a life while they were paying off their house.

[Ken Coleman]

Exactly right. The American dream is alive and well. Young couples. Listen, watch the story. They started on it the minute they got married so they didn't accumulate other debt. They just came right into this thing and they said, we're going to do this, and they walked it out. Now they're very young and man, you want to talk about prosperity, it really is now in their future.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mr. Spreadsheet over here has already run the numbers on what his compound interest is going to be. He's already sitting on 6 or 700,000 net worth at 35. And so that puts him in the tens of millions in his retirement years in net worth. And so he's going to be in such. They're going to be in such great shape. They've done such a good job. And mama's over driving a hoopty Camry. We got to get her upgraded to a better Toyota there. And so very good. Good.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. But worth. Worth every second of the sacrifices. They. They just steady as she goes. And they were just monotonous about it. And now they're going to live like nobody else. And that's. That's how this works. So really fun. If every young couple would take this model. Dave, instead of getting, like, more and more debt and trying to keep up with everybody else and live the life their parents lived, this is the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You need to take Instagram and put a bullet in it. It's difficult to keep up with other people's highlight reels. Yeah. Just if you're trying to keep up with other people, you're not going to win. It's pretty simple.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ann is with us in Minneapolis. Hi, Ann. How are you?

[Caller]

Better than I deserve. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just the same. How can I help?

[Caller]

So my husband and I have been married eight years and we just had our first baby in December. We're on baby step four. We have no debt other than our mortgage, and we have a good emergency fund saved up. We both work salaried jobs. Right now I make more than my husband in my field, so my salary is 135k with a 20% annual bonus and significant career growth potential to climb the ladder. But my husband's is around 100k and we've found there's more of a salary ceiling. With his CPA career, it's going to be difficult for him to significantly increase salary over the next five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

You said he's a CPA.

[Caller]

He is a CPA. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

He only makes 100 grand.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he has a career cap. Why does he have a career cap? He's under. Under. He's under market already.

[Caller]

He is. But that's after job hopping, like three jobs in the last five years, it's hard to find. Maybe it's just Minnesota, but at CPA firms, anything more than 100k is what we've found.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I was waiting on you. Here's what I would say. That's because you're looking at one pool, and that's your traditional CPA firms. But with his skill set plus his experience as a cpa, he has all kinds of upward mobility in the corporate world because of that actual skillset and experience. But if he's locked in on these firms in a certain type of work that he's Doing and have a little bit of an idea what you're talking about, then he is cap. Yeah. But the point is, is he's not limited for his growth. We're talking about a lot of C suiters in the United States that came through the CPA ranks.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

But what's your, what's, what's your question? You've kind of given us the financial picture and what you think the professional outlook is.

[Caller]

Yeah. So we recognize that we both can't continue to work full time because our daughter isn't in daycare. And right now I juggle full time work remote with her at home, but that won't last forever as she takes less naps and is up more during the day. And I really want to be a present mom. So right now benefits are the most challenging for us because my husband's work at a small firm has a very expensive health insurance plan with a limited network and I get really good benefits because I'm in the med tech industry. So good insurance is important. I have chronic health issues. We need to support ongoing care and medications. So basically I don't want to work forever and I want to be able to be a stay at home mom. But we feel like financially and health insurance wise, it may make the most sense for me to work and my husband to go down to part time. At least we can until we can get through having another baby and I can get benefits and maternity leave for my second pregnancy. But my fear is that if I continue to work, it's going to turn into more of a long term thing because my career will continue to grow and it'll probably never make financial sense for me to stop working because I can just make a lot more money. So we're also conservative Christians and there's the factor that the man is supposed to be head of the household, which typically looks like the stereotype of the wife is a full time stay at home mom and the husband's the provider. So how do we balance the need for benefits and the higher financial value with our long term strategy, wanting me to be at home with our kids. And what would you recommend in our career?

[Dave Ramsey]

You work on his career. Yeah. Because his career path sucks.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So what if he's not very motivated? Like, I mean, I think he'd be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Motivated after listening to you. Yeah. I mean, this is really. I'm ready to go. I think he could go. Yeah. I mean, you got, you got this dialed in. You know exactly what you want and how to get there.

[Ken Coleman]

I will tell you I, I have taken this call a lot from ladies and I've talked to a lot of men who cite motivation as a factor. And I can tell you this. He doesn't lack motivation, he lacks clarity. I don't think this is a lazy guy.

[Caller]

No, no, no, he's not right.

[Ken Coleman]

So what you're seeing as it looks like he's not motivated, it presents that way. But what's going on is he doesn't know what his options are. He doesn't see clarity in the future. Meaning I'd like to go here and I know how to get there. In other words, I words, I know what mountain I want to climb and I know what I have to do to learn how to climb it. That's what he's lacking. And I can tell you that if you solve that and help him solve it, then you can do what Dave is saying and he begins to see a path forward. Because you have to honor this desire to be a stay at home mom. You don't have to do it right away, but we've got to clear up.

[Dave Ramsey]

You told us what you want, that's it. You want to be there, but you've got to make it make sense. And the way it makes sense is if he gets in a career path that has good quality insurance because you've got chronic healthcare and obviously we'll cover maternity for a second baby and those kinds of things. And he has some upward mobility, upward trajectory with his income and a ladder to climb and be about the business of climbing it.

[Ken Coleman]

So hang on the line, here's what I want to do. This is my gift and this will help. I'm going to give him the book. Find the work you're wired to do. It has an assessment in it. It's called the Get Clear Care assessment. Have him take it and it's going to spit out a lot of great, easy to understand information. I won't unpack it here on the call, but that's going to help him with where he can go and how he can get there. He reads the book after he takes the assessment and I'll walk him step by step what to do. That's going to really, really help. I'm also going to give him a copy of my book, the Proximity Principle, which is his next step of homework, where he begins to get out there and connect with people in the places that he wants to end up professionally. And if that happens, just like the baby steps, he will find something and you guys will be able to make this plan for your life. Happen, but it's not by osmosis. It is through intentionality. And it can be done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so he should be in the.

[Ken Coleman]

250, 300 range soon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. Your, your analysis is based on the current set of facts. And the third option is create a new set of facts.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Charity is in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi Charity. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I. My car broke down in traffic yesterday. It turns out it needs about $5,700 worth of work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who said.

[Caller]

And say that again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who told you that?

[Caller]

The mechanic shop.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the dealership.

[Caller]

And not at the dealership. It was just a mechanic shop that we went to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What's wrong with it? What's wrong with the car?

[Caller]

It. I think they said the rack and pinion, the control arm bushing, basically a lot of the front end is. Needs a lot of work.

[Dave Ramsey]

So rack and pinion does not collapse in traffic.

[Caller]

No, I thought it was. They did say the steering pump was part of it as well. So it got to a point where I was trying to turn and it got really hard to turn.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That, that, that your, your power steering went out. Okay. That, that causes collapse in traffic. And then they found everything else they could find wrong with the car that's been wrong with the car for the last year and a half and added it onto the ticket.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So bull crap.

[Caller]

So it is about a 10 year old car. It's completely paid off. It's had some class action lawsuit things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Against put a steering pump.

[Caller]

Steering pump.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not $5,700.

[Caller]

Okay. So that's kind of what I was interested in was just, you know, the car, when it's running, it's worth two to three grand. And I mean we're on baby step three. We already, I mean we have an emergency fund. Our goal is 20k, 13k in our emergency fund so far.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

About 105.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. As soon as you get your emergency fund done, I want you to start working on saving up for a car and move. And move up in car because this car is a piece of crap. I agree with you. Yes, but right now you don't have the money to replace it, do you?

[Caller]

Well, let me add that we do have 7,000 in a brokerage non retirement account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is that not in your emergency fund?

[Caller]

Well, that's what we were going to call and ask is should that be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Should already have been in your emergency fund. Now if that's in your Emergency fund. How much is in the emergency fund?

[Caller]

13K.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And your goal is what?

[Caller]

Our goal is 20. We haven't had a lot of margin in our budget just due to plumbing and household maintenance things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Power steering, pumps going out and. Yeah, okay. So yeah, yeah, that I'm gonna move the brokerage into your emergency fund finisher emergency fund. I'm going to upgrade the car. In the meantime you got to fix the power steering pump cuz you got to get the thing operating. But you don't spend $5,700 on a $2,000 car. That's, that's a mechanic that you don't need to do business with. It even suggested that that's. As many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt and build wealth. And you can too. But you got to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start now. Take the free quiz and get your free step by step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to ramseysolutions.com start now. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the fair winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey. Kennedy Coleman Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and host of front row seat is my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Rob is in Los Angeles. Hey Rob, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing great Dave. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

That's awesome. I am 48 years old, married with 2 kids and unfortunately have been diagnosed with with stage 4 cancer. I've been fighting the disease for a couple of years now and through that fight I exhausted my 401k and basically my family has been surviving off of my disability income of $2,800 a month. We don't have any assets, don't own a house or anything like that. And on Sunday, Dave, I had a miracle happen. I won a hundred thousand dollars on NFL fantasy football contest and I am freaking out and have no idea what to do because I'm sick. So all the traditional steps that one would take to improve their lives I just at A loss for words. I'm wondering what you would do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I've never been there, so I'm not positive. What a. What a. What a challenging situation. The. I think the first thing. The first thing that popped into my head is don't lose it all trying to replicate it, you know. In other words, don't. Don't put a hundred thousand back into sports betting. I know that you probably got your one miracle. I don't think I'd stretched God on this. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Yeah, I mean, because that temptation's got to be there a little bit. Like, I. Hey, I'm. Now, now I've got this thing figured out. No, you don't. Like you said, you called it a miracle. It's luck. It's whatever. And it's a provision for your family. But don't, for God's sakes, don't use it to create more bedding. Okay. Is that fair?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the first thing that pops into my mind then. I don't know that. I mean, 100,000 is a lot more than you had. And it's a good thing. It's certainly not enough to sustain a family of three. A wife and two kids. Kids. If you're in heaven, Right?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it does help, though. We're not, you know. Wonderful. I'm glad you got it. So how do we make that work? You guys have got your household budget currently set up on the disability. You're living on 28.

[Caller]

It's difficult. My wife.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I would imagine.

[Caller]

Gig. A gig job. So she's, you know, if she brings in 100 bucks a day, we're lucky.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's her job, Peter?

[Caller]

To pay Paul.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's her job? What is her job?

[Caller]

She's like a. She delivers groceries. Like big app, you know, like a doordash type thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where is her family? In your family?

[Caller]

I. I just have. My dad is the only one left, and her family is all here with us, so she has that support when something does happen to me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I've never heard you at a loss for words.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I'm trying to think of. I'm going to speak plainly. Okay. Can I have permission to do that?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's she going to do for a living to raise two children when you're gone?

[Caller]

I've tried to have that conversation with her. It never turns out how I like. I don't think she knows.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I think she is putting it off. And.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well. And she's afraid if she says it out loud, that it's going to happen.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, I don't, I understand that's. We all process this thing differently. So. Yeah. What I would use the hundred thousand for is to cause her to get trained or certified in whatever it is she's going to do to raise these two kids. Assuming your doctors are correct.

[Caller]

Yeah, they are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You see what I'm saying? So, I mean, if you spent $25,000 and she got a certification in X, Y or Z, that allowed her to make 70 or $80,000 a year to be a widowed mom of two, that's the, that's an incredibly good use of that money as far as I'm concerned.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. But I don't hear Dave say that she's got to go to college. We're not saying that. We're saying we're going to find something very practical. Does not take very long to get qualified. It does not cost a ton of. But it allows her to make a very decent living to be able to take care of her and the kiddos.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm. Okay, let me give you another example. I would include college as a possibility if it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So like for instance, has she got a four year degree?

[Caller]

No. And we're 50. So telling her to go back to college, I don't think that she.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want to tell her to do anything. I want her to be able to have enough income to feed her kids and live. That's all I want her to do. But the. For her sake, I'm trying to help.

[Ken Coleman]

Her put you on the spot because, you know, we're better than us and we, we can't talk to her. What should she, what would you have her do? Knowing her the way you know her.

[Caller]

I would have her get something like a hairdressing license or something like that to where that she could, you know, maybe, you know, start something on her own or go rent a chair. But at. She would make more than minimum wage with something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you need to make more than minimum wage.

[Ken Coleman]

Is she intrigued by that? Ever talked about that kind of work?

[Caller]

When we first got together, I had actually offered to do that and you know, we were so young that she didn't take me up on my offer and you know.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, again, I think Dave's right. I would set that aside with her and say, hey, here are a couple options. Let her do some research. You got to force this conversation. And then say, all right, we're going to put some money aside. That would more than take care of the qualification process for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

But if she took $30,000 or $40,000 to live on and spent 60 during one year to get this thing that allows her to make 70 or 80 or whatever the rest of her life that's providing for her and for the kids. And I can't think of anything that's going to be a better investment that's going to. That's going to even come close to that kind of a return other than education certification that allows an income to be created. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I think that's. Your provision to me is to set up a sustainable provision. And it's hard to talk about because it's, you know, you don't. It's. It's. Man, it's painful. What y' all are going through is horrible. I'm so sorry, but. But not talking about is probably not a plan. And so her. Her not addressing the issue is not going to make you get well. You're going to get well independent of whether she addresses the issue. I'm not ill, but we plan my death every year in detail. If something happens to Dave this year, how does the remaining parties survive? And we go into it in detail, and that's an act of love. And that's it. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you [e-mail] insurance investing may seem complicated or confusing, but it doesn't have to be. The Ramsey Investing and Retirement Hub is packed with interactive tools, resources that can help you get informed and not intimidated. Check it [e-mail] or click the link in the description. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast, Umberto is with us in Oklahoma City. Hey, Umberto, what's up?

[Caller]

So I am finishing up nursing a senior school in about nine months. Unfortunately, haven't been able to work the last two and a half years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you say you're finishing anesthesia school?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Very good school.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, great.

[Caller]

So I'm going to have a lot of loans about up to like $275,000 coming out.

W. Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you ought to be making 300, right? Yeah.

[Caller]

250. 300, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, but. And you're used to make what. What are you making now? Nothing.

[Caller]

Nothing. Now I was making about 100k as a nurse, just working a lot of overtime.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what are you going to do? Live on nothing and pay it off in two years.

[Caller]

That's somewhat my plan. But also planning to get engaged, get married.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't call.

[Caller]

No, it doesn't. It really doesn't. But wanting to do. I mean, not the most extravagant wedding I can afford, of course, but at least something that's nice. I'm just curious on if it would. If the best thing to do is just to live off nothing and peanuts and just pay off as much as I can as fast as I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Caller]

Okay. Now my talk to my financial advisor as well, and he didn't make it seem that way. That I should pay it off as.

[Dave Ramsey]

Soon as I can, then get a new financial advisor.

[Caller]

Yeah, gotcha.

[Ken Coleman]

And yet you called Dave, because even you didn't think that sounded right.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, I had a buddy who just kept. What's it called? Hammering me about it and I was like, well, I'll just call and see. See what I can learn.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Also, you got a really good friend. So your friend's better than your financial advisor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's good. So here. Here' thing, dude, the highest. You have engaged in a ridiculous amount of debt and have gotten an awesome degree and career choice. Okay? So so far it's worked out. But there's other than NFL players, there's nobody dumber with money than doctors. They're perpetually stupid with money money. Don't be a stupid doctor with money, okay? You're making serious doctor money. Use it to straighten up the mess that you've made and go become wealthy. If you keep the student rolling around like you think it's a pet. So your financial advisor can get you to start investing so he can start getting commissions because you didn't fire him then. That's just straight up dumb, man. Can you know how much money you're gonna have if you have no debt and $300,000 income and learn to live on less than that, you're going to be a multi bazillionaire. But not if you screw around with this. You'll just be another doctor.

[Caller]

My whole life I've just kind of been always like, keep the minimum and just. And just make as much as I can and save up as much as I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

That way I can do whatever I want.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Beans and rice. Rice and beans. Yeah. Hey, set a f.25 grand. I don't care for. For a wedding. I don't Mind. What does she make?

[Caller]

She's actually finishing school too.

[Dave Ramsey]

In what?

[Caller]

Nurse? Anesthesia.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. Guess where we met. Okay. And. Yeah. And so she's gonna be making the same kind of. Does she got the same mess?

[Caller]

Yeah, she'll have the same mess.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, geez. So we're gonna have a $600,000 income and $500,000 worth of loans, right?

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so live like you make 100 grand and get yourself a $25,000 wedding. And you guys tear the. Tear the can. Please just go to the Ramsey Solutions website and put in what will happen after you're done with all this. And you make 600,000 and you put $200,000 in investments a year. How fast you will be worth $20 million will blow your freaking mind. But go ahead and be done with this in like a year and a half.

[Caller]

Yeah, that sounds amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Sit on a beanbag, don't eat out. Tell your broke friends who have their all these opinions. Not the good friend that we have established. You have one good friend. Fire your financial advisor. Live on beans and rice, rice and beans and be completely free and making 600 grand two years from now, dude, you're gonna have so much. You're gonna be able to do anything you want to do. But if you screw around and keep this around, try to be. I'm gonna. I'm gonna pay it off on a 10 year plan. I'm gonna kill you because you will have wasted so much money. You understand? Yeah, dude, you got you. This is amazing. Where you can be and. But please, God, the number of times I've talked to people in your world that. That are 10 years later and they're still looking at those student loans like they're a pet. They're keeping them around. Well, I think we need to feed it a little bit just to keep it alive. Oh, my God. It's just. You're. No, please, please, please. The great news is you've got an incredible income potential. The horrible news is you got to dig out of a mess before you get to have the benefit of it. No new Beamers, no new houses. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Nothing. Nothing. Honey, clean up the mess. And dude, you could. God, they're gonna have so much money, Ken. I get so excited.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I was gonna say, I. I don't think you're passionate enough with that. I think you should have been a little clearer about what you mean. Sometimes you're a little fuzzy, Dave, with these collars. Also, I do like the. The carrying on of the rice and beans into the bean bag. I also like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's a good handoff there.

[Ken Coleman]

I thought that was nice. I like that you don't need a bunch of furniture. Furniture just get you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, you're the one of the few around here that's old enough to actually remember it, what a beanbag chair is.

[Ken Coleman]

I do. And I still have a couple we got. True story, they're called. It's actually got a corduroy cover on it. But it is a beanbag for both my boys and I love them. I'll sit on them sometimes and watch football. Very comfortable.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you admitted it. Yeah. What?

[Ken Coleman]

Would it be worse if I said I had a waterbed?

[Dave Ramsey]

You remember those we got.

[Ken Coleman]

A whole generation has no idea there was actually a water bed.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's actually bad. And you put water in it.

[Ken Coleman]

You like floated around. It was so obnoxious. Yeah. Glad those went away on the ash heap of history.

[John O'Leary]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Hey, man, you just humberto. You got such. Your future so bright. You got to wear shades, man. I mean, seriously, it's incredible. But yeah, but you really knew need to decide to do this the right way and that's super fast.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, you're addressing something that isn't just the medical community. You got people who come out of school good degrees and they're going to get good jobs because of said degrees and they've been living on nothing and now they're going to make a really nice salary. And Dave, the temptation, you know, is so strong to live on some of that money as opposed to not live on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the challenge. Number one mistake. 22 year old just graduated from college. College gets the new job, the big girl job, the big boy job. Number one mistake, they make new car. Yep. Because I've been driving their high school hoopty all the way through college and I'm, I'm now. I'm, I'm now I've got a license and a letter after my name and now I need to spend some money that I don't have and go buy a car I can't afford. And yeah, so it's like they exhale and it sounds like BMW.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Three more letters to add to all those fancy degrees. Yeah, it's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's exactly right. So, yeah, don't, don't do that. Get your mess cleaned up before you start buying cars and houses and then you can, you can have the life you want. I mean, it's incredible what you'll be able to do absolutely incredible. So very cool stuff, guys. Very cool.

[Ken Coleman]

And on behalf of all patients in in the world, we would like to have not stressed out doctors and nurse anesthetists taking care of us. You're so stressed out because of your bills, you know, we don't need you stressed out. It's already a tough job.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, I have personally witnessed a couple of epidurals and I do not want those being done by a stressed out person.

[Ken Coleman]

Great point. Yikes. Get that away from me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I.

[Rachel Cruze]

Hey, you guys, Rachel Cruze here. Look, I know you want to do better with money, but let's be honest. Honest. Life seems to be getting more and more expensive and lately you hardly have any breathing room in your budget to do anything but cover the basics. You work way too hard to feel broke. Our EveryDollar budget app can help you free up margin fast. Most people find an average of $3015 in their first 15 minutes of using the app. Think about it. That's thousands of dollars just sitting right there in your budget waiting for a job to do. With EveryDollar, you'll find the margin and the motivation you need to start making real progress fast with your money. Start for free today. Download the EveryDollar app for free today.

[Dave Ramsey]

When John O' Leary was 9 years old, he suffered burns over 100% of his body was given a 1% chance to live. And he shares his expertise on overcoming adversity and how to live inspired with 10 of thousands of people, hundreds of events a year. He's spoken with us several times. We've become good friends over the years. Promoted the book that became a national bestseller called On Fire. His story is breathtaking and amazing and the only thing that's better than his story is the guy himself. And so honored to have you with us, my friend. Congratulations on all your success.

[John O'Leary]

Dave Ramsey. I am grateful to be your friend. Out of everything you said, that's what I'm most grateful for. And, and I realized, man, this isn't my success. This is God's hand in everything I've done, including the mess ups along the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

And there are many.

[John O'Leary]

Some we track, some we bury. But God's grace has carried us forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I get a call and I get these calls occasionally from friends that have done some kind of movie or some kind of film. Hey, come, we've got the. The early release for the people that can help us promote it on their shows and stuff. Come over and watch it. And generally when I go, I'm like, oh God. And I got a call from John. Hey, you gotta come see the movie on my life called Soul on Fire. I went, I had to get there just a little bit late because I got tied up in a thing here at the office. And when I got there I sat there and cried and cried and cried and cried. And I know the whole story. It wasn't like I didn't know what was coming. I knew every turning point, every milestone in the story and I'm still. It was so well written and so well acted. I was blown away. It's incredible movie. Yeah.

[John O'Leary]

Well what makes it I think even more incredible is it begins with the words a true story. And it is. And you and I were talking right before we started the show, but it's recorded in St. Louis where I was raised. It. The home scenes are recorded in my mom and dad's house. The hospital scenes are recorded in the hospital where I was treated. The place where I met my future wife was recorded exactly where she and I met. And the place where she and I married is recorded in the church where we married. The girl playing my wife in the film walks down that aisle wearing the dress she wore. So for us it's not only an emotional true story. They did such a phenomenal job of where they filmed and how they outfitted.

[Dave Ramsey]

These guys characters and the lady that played your wife nailed it. I mean cuz your wife is special, we all know that. And. But they. She's a hero in the, in the story. I mean she's incredible.

[John O'Leary]

Well, my, my favorite part about the film is when you look at the movie poster. It's not a picture of Joel Courtney playing John O. With his arms up celebrating his greatness. They actually spun him around so you see his backside and it's a mosaic of all the individuals who were the hands and feet of Jesus. Jesus who were part of this kid's survival from fire to 100% of his body should not have survived that. But in some regards the more miraculous stories, embracing the scars, embracing your life and recognizing even in the midst of agony you can be used for good.

[Ken Coleman]

You overcame John. Unimaginable burns. The mental, the physical, the emotional struggle. Unbelievable. And I know there are a lot of people that are tuned in today that are feeling like their future is unimaginable. They cannot figure out how they're going to get out of bone crushing debt. I think few people could speak to them the way you can. Having overcome what you have overcome, what would you say to that person who feels like they'll never get out of this debt they're behind, they're never going to be able to live the life that they desire.

[John O'Leary]

Right. Me too. And I live that way. Not just when I was a kid in the hospital. I think recovering Ken from physical injuries is far easier than the emotional one ones. So once I came home, like that alone is miraculous. But I buried the light. And I kept it buried for 20 years. My life changed in the back row of a church service. My arms were crossed. I was wiped out from the night before. We won't go into the details of that, but I'd been out too late. My life was just sideways, man. But I made it in. And the pastor was talking about the gift of talents. And he went through the five and the two and the one. And then he came to me, like when the light goes on you. And he said, and for those who feel as if you have no hope and no talent and that might be the person you're speaking to there, he said, listen to me. Your life is a precious, priceless gift. You got one job now. It is to say yes to being used for good. And I didn't even know what that meant, but I wrote it down as a 28 year old. Went to work the next day doing construction at the time, in debt, struggling, wiped out. And I got a call from a little girl who said, Mr. John, will you speak at my school? And that simple yes to this girl. To speak to three Girl scouts, to not even be paid a box of Samoas for the effort. Like we weren't killing it, man. We were not crushing debt. This wasn't helping anything, but it was setting us on a path. And in that room, a Rotarian came up and said, that was awesome. Speak at my Rotary Club. They don't pay. They barely feed you. But I went, and then in their Kiwanis and then in there, a church service and then a prison group. And this awkward, introverted nobody just kept saying yes. And it has led now over 20 years to being back on the Dave Ramsey show, to having two bestselling books, to being debt free. And now to have this film called Soul on Fire rolling into theaters around the country and around the world. That's not my work. It's God's hand. And a answer of yes, when the opportunity knocks.

[Dave Ramsey]

The movie is Soul on Fire. It's in theaters October 10th. Go and see it. I will give you my personal guarantee that you will be glad you took the time and the little bit of money out of your pocket. You will walk away inspired and Ready to go. A soul on fire. And John has definitely personified that since I've known him. So what do you hope viewers walk away from this film with?

[John O'Leary]

I'm going to answer that in a long winded way. So my. My. My hero is my dad. You and I have talked about this before, and my. My favorite scene in the film is in the church when we get married. You know, surprise guys. Like, I survived the fire. It's going to be okay. I don't know why Ramsay was crying. I'm living right next to him in the seat. Like, he should be aware. The kid's gonna survive and have a good life. Later on, I get married, and they shot this with the girl walking down the aisle wearing my wife's actual wedding dress. It's Dolly left, Dave. So they go to the left. And then you see this man rise in the second row. It's not John Corbett, who's the actor who portrays my dad in the second row. It's the guy he's portraying. That's my dad. And so my dad rises, which he can't do. He had Parkinson's disease. Had it for 30 years before he passed away. And when Shonda McNamara, the director, yelled the word action, my heroic dad stands up. And every time I see my dad in this film, and I just. I lose it. It's. It's an incredible moment. But back in May, I took my dad to the film, and I thought I'd have him for years, decades probably. And he held my hand the entire time. And when you. When your dad holds your hand for that long, that's too. It's an hour and 40 minutes for.

[Ken Coleman]

Your dad to hold your hand.

[John O'Leary]

Hand. But at the end of it, I said, dad, what do you think about your film? And my dad whispered back to me because he had no voice. What a gift. And what he was reviewing was not the film Soul on Fire. He had Parkinson's. He'd broken every bone in his body, most of them twice. He was financially struggling. He was. Been through two house fires, almost lost one of his kids in one of them. And yet at the end of the life, man, he was able to look up at his son and say, what a gift. So I hope people dance out of that theater saying, what a gift. This story isn't my life. We celebrate, man. It's yours. Doesn't make it easy, but God is working in this moment in your life, and your best is yet to come. That is a gift.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is. That's exactly right. That's exactly how it works. And after he saw that, he's passed away now, right?

[John O'Leary]

Passed away on May 30th.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Amazing. The movie My Friend John O' Leary's Life Story. And you will leave with a guest, Soul on Fire. It is in theaters beginning October 10th. The book is on fire. And if you ever have the opportunity to see John speak, you should. He's spoken on our stages many times. We've shared the stage many times on different things. And he's a world class communicator, as you can already tell. So again, nine years old, suffered burns over 100% of his body, given a 1% chance to live. But pain and hardships bring the greatest learning, less lessons, and he'll show you how that works. I can promise you, you'll come away going, oh, okay. I got no problems. Love you, John. Thanks for being with us, brother.

[John O'Leary]

Love you, Dave. Love you, Ken.

[Dave Ramsey]

Congratulations. Soul on fire in theaters October 10th. Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 45:2. I will go before you and will level the mountains. I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. Ella Fitzgerald said, it isn't where you come from that matters. It matters where you're going. Absolutely true. All right, if. Here's the top questions people have about online will. How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for a will? Well, if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, getting an online will is probably a great option for you. And actually, if it's worth more than a million dollars, it's probably still a great option. Super complicated is what really matters. It's not the size of it necessarily. What do I need to start my online will? Well, who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take control of your minor kids? And who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitating? That's a couple of the things they're gonna ask, so be ready for them. Is an online will legally valid? Well, of course, silly. Ramseysolutions.com willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. Aaron is with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Aaron, how are you?

[Caller]

Good.

How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Nothing much, Dave. So I want to be brief and to the point here. I'm a big fan of your podcast and I've listened in recently as I've been traveling a lot and. Right. In a bit of a situation. My dad passed away earlier this year and he left back pension money from. He was a Union worker for my mom as a beneficiary. So I'm calling on behalf of my mom, and she is trying to find out what to do with that money that was left behind.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is we want to.

[Caller]

It's 126,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor Pro. Find someone in your area that has the heart of a teacher that we have vetted and let them sit down with your mom and tell your mom what our choices are. She needs to roll it into some good growth stock mutual funds into an ira. Yes.

[Caller]

So we were presented with a fixed index annuity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely not. No, no. Horrible. Who presented that?

[Caller]

Someone who worked with my mom to help her build her trust right after this happened with my mom. So I immediately was kind of skeptical. I had heard what you had said about it. So I wanted to make sure I was making the right decision and help.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your mom build a trust. Why does your mother need a trust?

[Caller]

She has property as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean you need a trust.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's what we would. We were advised because this.

[Dave Ramsey]

By the person who sells trust?

[Caller]

No, no, by a different person who recommended us to the person who.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much property does your mother have?

[Caller]

She has three different rental properties. And then the current house.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is she?

[Caller]

She is 51.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I personally would not put any of that in a trust. It's complete overkill and it's a complete pain in the butt to operate rental properties in a trust because the operational aspects of writing checks to fix the heat and error and everything else all got to go through the trust. It's a pain in the butt. They should just be in LLCs. There's no benefit to them being in the trust. So I think this is somebody sells trust or doesn't know what the flip. They're doing one of the two, too. So, no, I wouldn't do that. But anyway. And I wouldn't do the other either. So so far, I don't like any of the people that have given you all advice. I don't like any of the advice they've been giving you. So, yeah, I would get with a SmartVestor Pro and do a rollover on the pension. And I would not put the houses in a trust. I'd put them in LLCs. And there's no. There's just no point in it. It doesn't do anything.

[Ken Coleman]

So, yeah, I like it when you tell. I don't like any of those people.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's that Charles is In Topeka, Kansas. Hey, Charles, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, I just got a question. So I recently purchased my second home and I was able to buy it in cash. And we paid off all our other debts this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't that feel great?

[Caller]

It does. I'm sleeping good, I'll tell you that every morning.

[Dave Ramsey]

I bet you are. I'm proud of you, man. Why did you go? What's your net worth?

[Caller]

Oh, probably around, you know, six or seven hundred thousand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Way to go out.

[Caller]

And all the cars.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Caller]

But yeah, so after child care, all my bills, groceries, that kind of stuff, I have about 2,000 left over. And I want to know how much monthly I should throw into, like retirement or, you know, custodial accounts for the kids. Because I, you know, kind of want to do some dumb stuff and go on vacations and do things like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's not dumb. You've earned it. You should go do those things. Yeah. So you've just got to lay it out and parse it out and go. Okay. There's three things I can do with money at Baby Step 7. I can have fun with it and I should. I can be generous with it and I should. And I can invest it and I should. As far as kids, custodian accounts, how old are the kiddos?

[Caller]

Six months and two and a half.

[Dave Ramsey]

Half. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you could put some in there. I wouldn't overload it too much. If you want to put some in a 529 instead and be thinking about college, that's fine. Or education of some kind. Trade school also qualifies for 529s. So whatever they're going to do, they're going to need some training post high school. And yeah, I'll be preparing for that. But you don't have to go hog wild on that. And you should be putting at least 15%. You should have been before you paid off the house. House. 15% of your household income going into retirement accounts. But at this stage you ought to be doing more than that.

[Caller]

We were trying, but we were in a house that we probably shouldn't have been. But I bought a fixer upper and it all worked out in the end.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you got that behind you. So now you can put at least that away. But you ought to be putting it a minimum of 15. But at baby step seven, I'd like to see you be doing more than 15% of your income into retirement and be doing something towards the kids college and something towards fun. And there ought to be room in this budget to do all that, that and just sit down with your smartvestor pro and lay out your game plan on how we're going to invest, what we're going to invest in. And, you know, lay out your Roth IRAs, load them up, load up the Roth 401ks at work if you've got them, and so forth. And then you'll look up in just a few years and it'll be millions and millions of dollars. It's kind of amazing how quickly it grows, how fast this life goes, for that matter. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, for folks that are listening, watching, we have a lot of new folks coming all the time. This is a great question call as Dave's giving that advice. You got to understand the baby steps are not a suggestion. This is a tried and true plan. And you refer to it privately, you know, in our building, in our meetings, that it's a clear path developed over time as you walk through with people in real life money situations. And I'm telling you the fundamental truth about the baby steps, Dave, is that it creates massive financial and personal and relationship momentum. It just does.

[Dave Ramsey]

It does. And because you're setting yourself free, yeah, you're working like crazy and you're actually getting traction. So many people with money feel like a rat in a wheel. They feel out of control. They're reactive instead of proactive. And when you get the other side of all of that, guys, it really turns things around in every area of your life. Stephen Covey, all those years ago had that book and it's still on the bestseller list. I look up total money makeovers on there. 7 Habits of Highly Effective People is on there. Number one habit of highly effective People. They are proactive. They happen to things. Not everything happens to them. So if you're in a situation and you don't like where you are, happen to it. What is it we're gonna do? What kind of dynamite are we gonna throw in the middle of this? Pull the pin on the grenade, light up the room, baby, let's go. There's something's gotta change here. And if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result. That's the definition of insanity. That's what the 12 steppers tell us. And so, you know, I can't seem to break the cycle. We'll break the cycle then. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, it's genius how we know, we talk to people all the time. How hard it is for many people just to get through baby step one, which is to get a thousand dollars. And when you're broke, you know how hard that is. But there's something about that, that it propels you beautifully into baby step two.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which is a tiny little confidence builder.

[Ken Coleman]

It is. And it's hard sometimes. And you get through that hardship. Guess what happens? Your shoulders come back a little bit. You feel a sense of what Dave just talked about, self control. You did something that you didn't think was going to be possible. And that's the magic of these baby steps. Work the baby steps. Not out of order. One through seven.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. One is before, two is before, three is before four. That's how that works. And so don't call me up and ask me to change them, okay? It'll be. It'll be better for you and me both if you don't do that. That puts this hour, the Ramsey show in the book. So we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus, Sam.