Quit Letting Dumb Money Decisions Hold You Back

Summary

The Ramsey Show Episode Summary

Episode Title: Quit Letting Dumb Money Decisions Hold You Back
Release Date: December 17, 2025
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman
Podcast Network: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on confronting financial mistakes, rejecting "normal" (which in Dave's words means "broke"), and making bold changes to break free from debt, bad habits, and limiting beliefs. Dave Ramsey and co-host Ken Coleman field real, often emotional questions from callers ranging from massive consumer debt and marriage/financial entanglements to career changes, practical tithing dilemmas, and chasing entrepreneurial dreams. Listeners are encouraged—sometimes bluntly—to radically change their behaviors to gain financial freedom, with repeated emphasis on honesty, personal accountability, and using proven principles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dumb Money Decisions and Massive Debt

[00:46–08:34] — Caller: Cody (Austin, TX)

• Situation: $250,000 in consumer debt (401k loans, student debt, car, legal fees, house goods), complicated by child support and co-purchased home with fiancée (not yet married).

• Dave’s Response:

  • Calls out the risky and “dumber than crap” move of buying a house together before marriage.
  • Urges immediate, radical lifestyle change for debt freedom.
  • Offers a clear, aggressive roadmap:
    • Get married immediately to unify life and finances (“Get married this weekend. Merry Christmas. Ho, ho, ho.” – Dave, [06:40])
    • Stop 401k contributions temporarily.
    • Start a strict budget using EveryDollar app.
    • Sell possessions (including the car) to pay off debt.
    • Adopt an ultra-frugal lifestyle (“beans and rice, rice and beans”).
    • Tackle debts smallest to largest (“knock off the low hanging fruit”).
  • Predicts total debt freedom (except the house) within 3 years if advice is followed strictly.

• Notable Quote:

  “If I keep doing what I’ve been doing, I’m going to keep getting what I’ve been getting. So for something to change, something’s got to change.”
  — Dave Ramsey [05:44]

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2. Married But Living Separately—Money and Marriage Together

[10:26–19:31] — Caller: Hunter (Cincinnati, OH)

• Situation: Newlywed living apart in separate states for career reasons, wife has debt, want to pay it off before buying a house.
• Hosts’ Response:
  • Dave criticizes the arrangement as “unbelievably weird” and unproductive.
  • Advocates moving in together ASAP, recommending even a modest apartment over both living with parents.
  • Strong stance that marriage means jointly facing debt and building a life (“You as a pastor, you would never tell a young couple to do what you’re doing, would you?” – Ken, [16:27])
  • Urges them to unite their finances, career choices, and marital living.

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3. Emergency Financial Reset—Catching Up After Trouble

[21:33–30:25] — Caller: John (Louisville, KY)

• Situation: Series of setbacks (pay disruption, loss of brother, substance issues), $15k total debt, months behind on bills; considers moving into a trailer on family land to escape rent and reset.
• Dave’s Response:
  • Praises caller’s planning given the circumstances.
  • Warns about getting stuck in a temporary solution (“make a commitment...no longer than 24-36 months” – Dave, [27:13]).
  • Encourages a “never again” life moment to break the cycle.
  • Suggests prioritizing catch-up on bills and being intentional about when and how to move out of a temporary home (“…that was the time…we said never again.” – Dave, [30:20]).

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4. Marriage and Financial Decisions in Later Life

[33:16–40:48] — Caller: Max (San Antonio, TX)

• Situation: In a relationship with a widow who will lose $4,000/month Social Security survivor benefits if they marry before age 60.
• Discussion:
  • Dave plainly values marriage/companionship over the money lost: “For me, the joy of a lifetime companion I'm in love with supersedes $48,000 a year.” [35:13]
  • Marriage yields intangible (emotional, spiritual) and tangible (net worth, longevity) benefits.
  • Both hosts cite statistics and personal philosophy; urge not to let tactical money matters override life priorities, especially when financial position is already very strong.

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5. Tithing & Borrowing—Theological and Practical Nuance

[44:17–52:22] — Caller: Brad (Chicago, IL)

• Situation: Considers borrowing money to tithe after cash depletion from business reinvestment.
• Response:
  • Dave clearly states: Never borrow to tithe (“...to borrow money and go against one scripture in order to keep another scripture is oxymoronic.” [49:18]).
  • Tithing should be on “net increase,” not taxable income, with room for grace.
  • Ken adds, don’t use business expenses as an excuse not to tithe, and cautions about overcomplicating the “first fruits” principle, encouraging stewardship and generosity.

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6. Stuck on Assistance—Move for Opportunity

[53:47–62:16] — Caller: Alicia (Maine)

• Situation: Pregnant, family of three, husband works as a mechanic but low pay in rural area, stuck due to losing benefits if income increases.
• Hosts’ Response:
  • Dave bluntly urges: Move to where the work is (“The chances I’m going to let my wife and child be on welfare and live in a 900 square foot home...are zero. I’m going to load up the truck and head to Beverly.” [56:01])
  • Ken reinforces that American prosperity is built on pursuing opportunity, even if it means leaving home.
  • Numerous examples/statistics provided about high income from trades in more favorable markets.

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7. Transitioning Careers & Pursuing Entrepreneurship

[86:45–94:14] — Caller: Ryan (Salt Lake City)

• Situation: Baby Step 7, $1.6M net worth, corporate software developer ($200k/year), wants to leave for side hustle flipping storage units (currently makes $2,000/month).
• Guidance:
  • Both hosts agree: Don’t quit yet. $2k/month is a hobby, not a career.
  • Ken advises: Prove the side hustle can scale to replace a reasonable portion of income, ideally with a healthy runway in retained earnings.
  • Dave notes: Your desire is for independence, but it’s not necessary to trade income for happiness (“To automatically assume less equals happy is…not a proper framework.” [91:43])
  • Ken suggests using an upcoming sabbatical to pressure test the business; cautions patience and wisdom over impulsive jumps.

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8. Baby Steps Millionaire—Trades and Wealth Building

[107:03–113:39] — Caller: Taylor (Houston, TX/Bay City)

• Situation: 32, union electrician, $1.1M net worth, paid-off $242k house, no inheritance.

• Hosts’ Emphasis:

  • Proof that skilled trades can lead to early millionaire status; started at $95k/year, now $200k/year.
  • Ken notes: Trades are “exploding,” excellent for those questioning college or seeking reliable income.
  • Taylor credits setting intentional goals and listening to Ramsey from his early 20s.

• Notable Quote:

  “You can take the skills you learn in the trades and you can take them anywhere. And we need a lot of trades people…” — Taylor, [112:34]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Changing Behavior for Results:
  “The more radically you change things, the more radically things will change.”
  — Dave Ramsey [05:44]

• On Emotional Cycles with Debt:
  “You guys have been through hell. And the crummy year…highlighted for you that living paycheck to paycheck is no way to live. It’s no fun.”
  — Dave Ramsey [29:46]

• On Moving for Economic Freedom:
  “People who are broke and have no opportunity in an area have moved to an area where there was opportunity and economic growth since time began.”
  — Dave Ramsey [55:59]

• On Choosing Marriage Over Survivor Benefits:
  “For me, the joy of a lifetime companion that I’m in love with supersedes $48,000 a year.”
  — Dave Ramsey [35:13]

• Single Mom Car Dilemma:
  “[About combining two unreliable cars] ‘A spare because both of them suck is not a plan.’”
  — Dave Ramsey [103:07]

• Trades Success Story:
  “Do you think it can still be done if somebody’s listening right now and they’re 20 and they start an apprenticeship program…?”
  — Dave to Taylor [110:17]
  “Absolutely, 100%.”
  — Taylor [110:27]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:46] — $250k Debt Call: Get Married, Budget, Sell Stuff, Change Life
• [10:26] — “Married” Couple Living Separately: Move in Together!
• [21:33] — Resetting After Setbacks: Trailer as Temporary Reset
• [33:16] — Remarrying Later in Life: Social Security vs. Marriage Values
• [44:17] — Should I Borrow to Tithe? (No! Practical & Spiritual Analysis)
• [53:47] — Rural Stuckness: Moving for More Income
• [86:45] — Side Hustle Career Leap? Caution and Testing the Waters
• [107:03] — Millionaire at 32: Union Electrician Success Story

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Tone & Language

The episode maintains Dave’s signature blunt, practical, and occasionally sarcastic tone (“That’s dumber than crap,” “A spare because both suck is not a plan.”). Ken provides empathetic but equally direct coaching, especially about careers and calling. Both hosts balance tough love with encouragement and respect for listeners’ honest calls.

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Summary Takeaways

• Radical, uncomfortable action is required to overcome big financial mistakes.
• Marriage is not just a legal or relational milestone—it’s critical to financial and life stability.
• Wealth is built slowly and consistently, regardless of starting point, through intentionality and following proven steps.
• Bold decisions, sometimes including relocating or ending emotional attachments to property, are often required.
• The trades offer real, lucrative, and honorable alternatives to the standard college path.
• Don’t let the desire for “normal” tie you to mediocrity or debt—be “weird,” in Ramsey-speak, by doing what works.

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For more resources, budgeting tools, and the Ramsey Show philosophy, visit ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host. He's also the host of a big runaway hit on Ramsey Network called the Front Row Seat. When I join in there you'll see all kinds of very interesting people. So jump in and join us today. The phone number is 888-255-2225. Cody is in Austin, Texas. Merry Christmas. Cody, how are you?

[Caller]

Merry Christmas. I'm good Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I've stumbled against some, some obvious decisions that's led me into about 250,000 in consumer debt that has left me stumped on how me and make headway to get this taken care of in a short amount of time or as quickly as possible. And it just seems like we run into a brick wall about beliefs on how we're going to do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a lot, dude. I'm sorry, what do you, what's it on? Break it down for me. The 250 is on. What?

[Caller]

So we have, we have, I have a 401k loan that has about 21,000 in it. We have student loans in around 80,000. We have a car that's around 36. And then we have legal fees, things that, that we've both had to acquire over the course of a few years. It's around 20,000. And then we, if we did purchase a house and we've added some, some debt there as far as just furniture and appliances and things that we're, we're trying to get off and that's the lowest hanging fruit of around eight.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

We're looking, looking around 200, 250,000. That's just sitting out there. And then on top of that is I have a child with a former relationship and that one takes out a huge chunk of our available money.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your, what's your household income?

[Caller]

So we sit around before, before taxes? Well we, about $200,000 but if you take out child service or child payments and things like that, it's around 175. So we bring home after taxes around 11.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And significant other. What's that mean?

[Caller]

My fiance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So there's not a we then until you're married. What's the wedding date?

[Caller]

That has not been set yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller]

We've had a run of things that's happened in both of our lives, and we just have. That's been pushed.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you bought a house together.

[Caller]

That we did. We did buy house.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's more difficult than getting married.

[Caller]

I don't disagree with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's also dumber than crap because you're going to get yourself into a mess buying stuff you're not married to. And so. And so you're trying to act like you're so. Okay. The legal implications, the relational implications and the career implications of trying to do this without being married, the data is all stacked against you. So that is one thing that you're. That you're out over your skis on. One thing that you're trying to go uphill on. And the data is really, really clear. And there's a lot of research on this. Nobody seems to be talking about it because unpopular. Talk about. So everybody gets pissed at me when I talk about it, but I can. It's kind of like my spiritual gift, so it's okay. The. So that. That. That's one thing. And legal fees. Has that all. That's all from child support issues and other things in the past.

[Caller]

Primarily mine. I've spent a decade fighting for my first daughter in my first marriage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. All right. Is that over?

[Caller]

No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

So there's ongoing legal fees?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah.

[Caller]

The state of Texas stacks it against the father, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. The. Okay. How much of the 175 is you and how much is her? You just broke. Broke up. Try it again.

[Caller]

I make 120 and she brings home 80. So we're sitting at the 200.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

But I take out the 25 because that's the child support.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's gotta come out.

[Caller]

Yeah, that is correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do not. Do not go to jail. Yeah. Okay. The. All right. I'm good with that. Take care of the kid. That's a good thing. So how much of. How much is being put into your 401ks?

[Caller]

I have a employer match and I. Mine's every paycheck. I get paid weekly. Mine goes around 175 a week, and then that's 6%. So they match up to 6%. So I just make the match.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then she's. She's at 4. They match at 4%, so she's at 4% of hers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, well, here's the thing. You can do what you want to do, but you called and asked, so we're going to be truthful with you because we love you and we want you to win. And what would I do if I woke up in your shoes, knowing what I know now is I had to come to grips when I went broke years ago with the idea of if I keep doing what I've been doing, I'm going to keep getting what I've been getting. So for something to change, something's got to change. Agreed?

[Caller]

Agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you can add with that formula then the more radically you change things, the more radically things will change. That makes sense. And so in other words, the more bizarre you get and the more your friends are looking at you like you've joined a cult and lost your mind, the probably the more progress you're going to make away from being stuck, which is where you are right now. So that's, that's the, you know, the decision making framework that I'm going to give this advice in. And then you got to pick and choose and. But I promise you, if you will go do every single thing I'm getting ready to tell you, in C3 years, you'll be 100% debt free, not counting the house. In, in 4 years you'll have substantial assets. In 12, you'll be a millionaire.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay, I'm all ears.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the first thing I do is get married this weekend. Merry Christmas. Ho, ho, ho. There we go. You know, that's simple. And Rachel's anniversary is this coming Friday. So you can get married on Rachel Cruz's anniversary if you want. There you go. So she got she's a Christmas wedding. It was a lot of fun. So gather up some friends. Y' all been doing this for a while. You've been playing house for a while. It's time to be grown ups now. You're not college students sleeping around. It's time to do this. Okay? And then you're combined. You're locked legally. You're committed into the future. You develop a shared set of goals, a desired future. Where you want to go. I stop all 401k contributions temporarily. I would get on a detailed written plan called a budget. I'm going to give you every dollar as your wedding gift. It's the world's best budgeting and finance app. And it's also going to walk you not only do the budget, but it's also going to walk you through the stuff I'm teaching. Okay? I would sell everything in sight. No more renovations, no more furniture, no more nothing. Beans and rice. Rice and beans. You're not going to see the inside of A restaurant. Unless you're working there, you're not going on vacation. That's for dadgum sure. You are broke people and you've got to clean this up. I'd look at selling this car. Probably just almost symbolically. It's not as much of the money issue as it is. It's just stupid in the middle of all this and it's really the only thing you got you can sell. You can't sell the lawyer of the credit cards or the 401k. So. And then I'm just going to list these debts, smallest to largest, and I'm going to squeeze every dollar out of my life. And like you said, I'm going to knock off the low hanging fruit first. Take the littlest, smallest to the largest and go in that order and get in absolute crazy attack mode. Hang on. Christian will pick up and help you out with all those gifts. Give him a total money makeover book too. And Ken, if you'd shut up, I could talk.

[Ken Coleman]

I was gonna say. What do I add to that? I just slow clap like you made a par put.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

You.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Hello, Mr. Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Hi.

[Caller]

So I am recently married within the past three months. And I. My wife has loans, student loans and car payments and we are in debt. I personally have zero debt and I owe nobody anything. And we are married, but living separately by choice. Because we wanted to knock out this debt before we went in and decided to buy a house or something. So I wanted to see what your advice would be for us to knock out this debt before jumping into buying a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got married three months ago and you don't live with your wife?

[Caller]

Unfortunately, no. We are in a very special situation where we're lucky enough that both of our parents still let us live at our respective parents houses. So we're weekend warriors is what I call it. I also have a pretty.

[Ken Coleman]

Hold on a second. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. What is weekend warrior? I'm afraid to ask this, but I gotta know.

[Dave Ramsey]

They get to see each other.

[Ken Coleman]

You guys go to one of the other's parents house on the weekend?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you in different cities?

[Caller]

Honey, we are in different states.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Where are we going to live when we get married?

[Caller]

Planet Planning on. We are already married, but planning on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really? You're still married to your.

[Caller]

Planning on living in Ohio? Granted. I am a professional basketball player and I have been for the past two years. Now my wife has a 9 to 5 job and we are. We got married very quickly so she could join in and a contract for me to play overseas, but I didn't get the contract that I expected. So now we're kind of standing here married but not living together.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your, your. Your professional life is overseas playing ball?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And. But right now you don't have a job?

[Caller]

I do. So I am working for a friend. He owns an auction business and he pays me in cash. I just work the hours that I can and the hours that I want. But I've been increasing those hours and days because I want to be better for God willing, our future family.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so. There's so many things to talk about. What's the future on the basketball contract? When does that come up again?

[Caller]

So I signed a small contract coming up here and the month of February, March, April and May and that will be in the United States. And they're providing housing for my wife and I for those month. For those months. And then I will be getting before tax.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that in the. Is that in the NBA sub league? I've forgotten what it's called now, but is that what that is?

[Caller]

It's the league right below the one that you're thinking of.

[Ken Coleman]

So. Yes. So you're way down low. So how much money this is not a lot of money. And that's why I asked that how much is that contract for? For those few months?

[Caller]

Well, it'd be three grand a month before tax.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do you, what do you, when do you go? When you're, when you're in Europe, what do you make?

[Caller]

It really depends on the league. And it depends on what have you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Made in the past.

[Caller]

Made 2400amonth, and then the last one was at a thousand a month.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're not going overseas for that when you can make money in the NBA development league.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what is your, what's your, what's your career plan? Because those all suck.

[Caller]

My career plan is eventually I actually want to become a preacher.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Caller]

But I, I, how much debt does.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt does your wife have in emergency in student loans?

[Caller]

So in two loans, one is a little over 5,000, another is 13, and then federal aid and student loan is 5,000 and then car payment with 5,000 left.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and so you're planning on base camp to be Ohio?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

You live right now?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the best way to attack this financial situation is to create a more symbiotic relationship. And that would mean that you and your wife go get an apartment tomorrow and you actually live together seven days a week. Because what you're doing is unbelievably weird.

[Caller]

Yeah, you're telling me.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, wait a second. So I got to ask really quick, and I'm not picking on you, but I really want to know. You called and you're used to coaching. If you responded to Dave's comment that way, believe me, I know that leads me to believe. Tell me if I'm wrong, that this is not an arrangement that you came up with. This isn't your idea, or am I wrong?

[Caller]

It is both of our ideas. It. Okay, again, I, we. I was anticipating this contract to come by. That's why part of the reason why we got married so early, the main reason is because we both believe in God and we wanted to be married. But when I was negotiating it, it did not go the way that I intended.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. I get it. I got to tell you something. You need to choose which. First of all, I don't think you should be in either parents house, but you should choose one and live together. Let's get this thing going. You as a pastor, you would never tell a young couple to do what you're doing, would you?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you wouldn't. And you need to get like an apartment and you really leave your parents, both of you?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you've been being a basketball gypsy, and now you got married and so if you're going to be a basketball gypsy, she's going to be riding in the trunk with you and. Or you're going to move on and move to, you know, move towards becoming a pastor and moving on. So I appreciate that you wanted to get married rather than shacking up. I appreciate that. Thank you for that. Good man. Good idea, Bad idea. To live separately and in order to pay off the debt. That is not. No, no, no. And apparently there's not room or it's not conducive to a married couple for you guys to be at either family's house, which suits me fine too. I recommend all young people go get a life away from their parents, married and unmarried, especially married, go get a life and that's going to make you more money and it's going to make your career blossom because it's going to make your manhood and your relationship blossom. And you know, she's got to be away from her mommy and so do you. And you know, mommy can just email recipes and that's about it. Over the fence. That's it. And that's. You guys really, really, really need to. You're going to do better to answer your basic. To get her out of debt, you guys. Out of debt. You phrased that properly. But from the debt that she brought in, faster when you're working together and even with an apartment rent, because you're both going to be looking at this going, I'm going to work all the time and when I get home, I'm going to see my wife and I'm going to work all the time and I'm going to get home, I'm going to see my wife. And we don't do thousand dollar a month stuff in 2025 and call that professional. That's slightly above hobby. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I was going to say professionally speaking, I have a good friend who was in AA baseball many years ago, he and his wife straight out of college and they gave it a timeline. They both sat down and said, all right, we're going to give it this much time and they're going to put some measurables on it. And you know, you've played at the European level or wherever you've played internationally and now you're in the lowest development league. You know what the odds are you're going to have somebody in your life coach on that team, the general manager up the line. Let's put a real number on how long we're going to give this. And you've got to work extra like Kurt Warner, the famous now hall of Fame quarterback stocking shelves. This has been done before but you need some real measurables on the basketball side and your wife. Now we agree, this is how much we're going to give it. This is what we're going to do together. She needs to be on the road with you. Like Dave said, you guys need to be in this together. You guys can scrape by on this three grand a month and hustle and learn how bad this situation is. I think you've got to be together. I just really wanted to hit that. But I think you have got to get to a point pretty quickly. Where we go, we're going to realistically measure what my opportunity is in professional basketball that's here and abroad. Give it a time length, get retested and see if there's something there. And if it's not, it's going to be hard to give it up. But you got to walk away and walk forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it so I can't tell somebody else to do it. It's that simp. Running a business is already complicated. You don't have time to become a health insurance expert too. And when you're self employed there's no HR department to lean on. But that's where my friends at Health Trust Financial come in. For over 20 years they've been helping families and small business owners cut through the confusion and find the right health insurance plan for their stage of life and budget. Health Trust Financial offers unbiased advice and there's never any pressure. Health Trust Financial helps you shop smarter and avoid overspending. Most of their clients save hundreds of dollars every month. Real savings you can put back into your business or toward building wealth. I've worked with them for over two decades and they're the only Ramsey trusted health insurance advisors. So get clear on your options and talk to a real person who can help you make confident decisions about your health coverage. Go to healthtrustfinancial.com today. That's healthtrustfinancial.com. John's in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey John, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing okay, Dave. It's a pleasure to speak with you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too sir. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I had a series of unfortunate events this year and I just really want to try to get some advice on if I'm making the right decision for me and my family. I'm a single income earner family of four, me, my wife and my two sons. And at the beginning of the year in March, my company sold out to another company. And during the transition I was paycheck to pay. I'm still paycheck to paycheck, but I was managing my bills. When my company sold out, I was weekly pay. And then the new company come in and did biweekly pay which set me behind three weeks without a paycheck after that last paycheck. So I went through that. Then in May, I lost my brother. So I went from that to a week and a half out with my brother, you know, passing away. And it just from then on I've been playing the catch up game and I've got down to not only personal issues with myself and substance abuse and getting through that. And then now, you know, I'm more than 90 days behind on every non essential bill outside of what I need to keep house lights and things like that going. So what my plan is, and me and my wife have sat down and we both agree 100% is that we want to invest, you know, it's not going to be a large portion like 5, 6, $7,000 into a home that we can purchase, own it outright and place it on to her grandmother's property, allowing us to have 100% access of my income to try to nip this out as quick as I can to get that back to square root. But I think the only advantage that I have is I'm sub. $15,000 in total debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 15,000 clears your debt, is that what you're saying?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. And what do you make sure right now I bring home about 2200 every two weeks or 44amonth, plus every two.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's every two weeks. So plus two times a year you have 6600.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what do you do?

[Caller]

I'm a truck driver.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, and what, what does it take to bring you current 15. 15,000. 15,000 makes you debt free. But what brings you current?

[Caller]

Bring me current. I'd probably have to be just south of probably 30 $500. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and where would you get the 5,000 to buy the trailer?

[Caller]

Well, that's what. Speaking with my wife, we agreed to take what we potentially could get back on our income taxes next year to try to just wing it. I know it's a short matter of time before these things will go into collections and I figured it once we got.

[Dave Ramsey]

What kind of debt is it? I'm sorry, what kind of debt is it that you're behind on?

[Caller]

I have two personal loans and credit cards and. Well, I Take that with three personal loans and credit cards. And then my wife has credit cards as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your rent?

[Caller]

My rent is 1600.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're not talking about making this move? Well, no. I guess you would file your taxes after the first of the year, so you get the money probably in February, right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which would also be enough to catch you up.

[Caller]

Close to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

As long as I could find a cheap enough and a, you know, something that would accommodate us.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, I'm just saying if you didn't buy the trailer and you stayed in the rental, you could use the refund and be caught up.

[Caller]

Close to it. Not. Not all the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know. You said you're 3,500 behind and you're talking about buying a $5,000 trailer. What's your refund gonna be? Which is it?

[Caller]

I say it's probably six, seven thousand. That's.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, six or seven thousand makes you current.

[Caller]

So that would bring my loans back up to current.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you don't have to buy a trailer.

[Caller]

I see that, but I mean, the trailer was an end goal for us anyway, to get out of paying rent, to try to move on to purchasing property after we did, you know, paid off what we owed. I figured once we could move into the trailer, then we could wipe out pretty much every debt within a mere month and a half. Two months.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's probably pretty close to true. Okay, I'll tell you this. You've done a really good job of analyzing and knowing where you are. I'm proud of you. You've really got your fingers around this because you're pretty stressed. And in the middle of that stress, you've still done a good job of laying out a game plan and thinking it through. I don't have a real fault with any of your reasoning, so here's what I would add to this. Okay? Sometimes I have seen people do stuff like this, and then they don't play all the way through. And you have to make a commitment that we are going to be in this trailer no longer than 24 months.

[Caller]

Before. Months? Me and my wife was thinking somewhere along the lines of three to five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, 30. 36 months. 36 months. Not three to five, not a vague number. Okay? Put a date on the calendar. We are out of this trailer and we're going to whatever it takes. Extra jobs, no vacations. We're going to be debt free, have an emergency fund and a good down payment on a house, and get out of this trailer because Otherwise, you're going to end up raising your kids in a trailer that you didn't want to buy. Right. And you don't want to do that. You don't want to look back in 10 years slips away and, you know, it can.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

What needs to happen for her to be able to work.

[Caller]

Right now? Me and her agree that because of the pricing of child care, that it would. It wouldn't really be with. She is in school, she is learning, going well. She's back in school, trying to finish out the studies that she chose, which is why me and her agreed. She wants to be a phlebotomist.

[Ken Coleman]

What's that going to turn into? Let's assume she has that degree today. What job is she getting?

[Caller]

She would basically, you know, be the person that would draw people's blood in doctor's offices or hospitals.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how long does it take her to get that certification?

[Caller]

Right now is as long as. Because the. The school that she is in is kind of like a pay as you go thing. So like I said, everything that's not essential to the house, I've kind of just stopped.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Right now she's not in school. So why put her to work right now?

[Caller]

Well, she. She has. She does, like delivering packages as kind of a contract job and that. That helps make up a little bit. But as far as finding someone to take care of our children, how old are the boys? My youngest will be two on the 19th of this month, and then my oldest is four.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you got littles.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That makes a difference.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so here's the thing. Here's what you want to do. You want to put a deadline on the trailer if you're going to do it. I'm not sure I would do it, but I'm not sure I wouldn't do it. But if I did do it, I don't want to get stuck there. I want to make enough radical changes in our lives that we move away from that time in our life and it's in the rear view mirror forever. Okay. You guys have been through hell. And the crummy year that you've had has highlighted for you that living paycheck to paycheck is no way to live. It's no fun.

[Caller]

Not at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so when Sharon and I went through going broke, we had a never again moment. And I want to make sure that you guys, the two of you hold hands tonight and look each other in the face and say, never again. We're going to step into a trailer for 24 to maximum of 36. But never again are we going to be here. We're going to work like crazy people and we're going to have goals and we're going to live on less than we make. And we're not buying anything on debt. Never again are we going to be back here. We're having emergency fund so that a lousy 10 grand doesn't completely stand us on our head.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because $20,000 would change your whole life right now.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's how quick this could turn. You didn't call me up with 300,000. You call me up with 15,000 and 3,500. Get your current so you can do this, man. And I'm telling you, you have a good brain. The brain you used to work through. This was excellent. I'm proud of you. And you go now. Go play through and look back a decade from now and go. That was the time, the year my brother died and they laid and they changed my pay. I said never again. And that's what Sharon and I did. We looked back. We said never again. 1988. No way I'm reliving that freaking year. There's a bankruptcy filing on the wall right across from me in the office right here. I'm not doing that crap again. Never again.

[Caller]

The holidays can come with a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of pressure to spend.

[Caller]

Family, friends, Secret Santa at the office.

[Dave Ramsey]

All the things.

[Ken Coleman]

But y', all, this season should be.

[Caller]

About peace, not payment. That's a big reason why I love Fairwinds Credit Union. They share the Ramsey values of helping you reach your money goals without debt. And with the Fairwind Smart Bundle, Ramsey fans get a no fee checking account, a high yield savings to grow your emergency fund, and the exclusive Ramsey Beweird debit card. It says debt is normal.

[Ken Coleman]

Be weird right there on the front.

[Caller]

So every time you use it, it's a reminder that you're doing your money differently. So this Christmas, skip the credit cards and celebrate progress, not payments. Spend with peace of mind, knowing that you're sticking to your budget and staying debt free. And check out the Fairwinds Smart Bundle [e-mail] Ramsey and open up the Smart bundle and grab your exclusive Ramsey Beware debit card. That's fairwinds.org Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

Fair Winds is federally insured by the NCUA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it? Well, that's normal. Problem is, normal sucks. Normal's broken. You don't want to be normal. You don't have to live that way. Our EveryDollar budget app helps you find extra money every month and build you a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. In just 15 minutes you'll find thousands in hidden margin. You'll feel like you got a raise. Don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play. Max is in San Antonio. Hey Max, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for having me on. Longtime listener.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you, sir. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I'm 58 years old. I've been divorced now for a little over five years and I've been dating a lady who is 57 and she is a surviving widow. She love if we get married before we're sick, before she is 60, she uses all of her loses all of her surviving spouse Social Security benefits. And he was a big contributor up until he was about 58 years old. So she would receive the Max. And I've heard your conversations today with people about getting married and how the chances are divorce if you don't get married within a certain point of time. We've been dating now for a little over two years and I was just wondering if it was worth it to get married now and forego that potential $4,000 a month for the rest of her life.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income or what's your income?

[Caller]

I'm sorry, My income is about 150,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's her income?

[Caller]

Her income is just living off of what she she got. She's down to a little over 600,000 and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what's your nest egg?

[Caller]

My nest egg is recovered to just a little over a million in my retirement account and I have no debt and have a paid for house. It's a little house here in Texas worth about 400,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, have you all been discussing marriage prior to this this thought pattern here?

[Caller]

Sure. Yes, sir. We've been dating for a little over two years and fell in love immediately. Been talking to both of our parents about it and both of our family. She's got two step kids and I have two skills. Of course they're all grown. Everybody loves each other and doing great.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good. But okay, I'll tell you. You ask a question and I'll give you a straight answer. The the way I try to do stuff and Max, you said you're a longtime listener so you know this. I try to put my. I've never been in your situation. I'm 65, so we're fairly close in age. But if I try to put myself in your position, what would I do if I were in your shoes? And for me, the joy of a lifetime companion that I'm in love with supersedes 48 grand a year. And for me, that's called marriage. I'm a person of faith and that's called marriage. And I don't have any confusion about that at all in my mind or in my spirit, either one for me, I don't want to look at her dad in the eyes unless I'm saying this is my wife for me. And I can't make that be for you. You've got to decide that. You guys are, you know, you're going to have a net worth of two and a half million dollars or more and a really good household income, and you don't have to have the 48,000. It's just a minor thing. And so for me, it's just. For 50 grand, what can I buy? I can buy a marriage license and 50 grand a year. But. But, you know.

[Caller]

Well, we're trying to take that into account to where we need to retire. Since we just found each other late, we're trying to figure that into retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got two and a half million dollars to retire off of. I think you're going to be all right.

[Caller]

Well, the way we figure that out, too is it's not necessarily the 220,000 a year. It's, of course, the broker has to take a fee of 1% and then it's taxed and we'd have to get our. Have to get our income up pretty good to have net of what we feel like we'd like to be able to enjoy.

[Ken Coleman]

Which way were you. Which way were you leaning before you called us?

[Dave Ramsey]

Obviously, he didn't want to marry her. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm just curious.

[Caller]

Oh, no, I do want. Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you all, you did. You answered my question with numbers telling me why you shouldn't do it, and that's. That tells me what you want to do. So. No, I mean, you do what you want to do. I'm not mad at you either way, we'll still be friends. But I personally, I just see a tremendous spiritual, relational, emotional, and even financial value in being married more than 48 grand a year. I just do. I just think it's valuable. And if I were 57 and had met the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, there's no way I'm letting her freaking get away over some math nerd stuff with My financial planner, you know, trying to figure out, well, I gotta pay him 1%. Who gives a crap? If you don't pay him 1%, don't pay him, but don't lose her either.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I think it's really clear for our audience to understand how we view marriage. And no judgment here, but my guess is that they're living together. And so when you've already made that decision, we're living together, fell in love with her early, been dating two years. I'm reading between the lines. It's probably what's going on. So therefore, this is all about a money question. And we're coming at this not from a money answer, not in the situation. It's just the way we see things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but here's the other thing. It is, it does end up being a money thing, especially maybe not in his situation exactly, but as much, but in when I'm Talking to these 24 year olds and whatever. And we've been living together for four years. Great. Okay. But all the data says when you're 46, that you missed out on hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

For that 24 year old. Okay, so it is math too. And I've got to think that the marriage advantage plays into this situation. Although I can't put my finger on exactly where it will. But I'm thinking it's 50 grand a year easy. The working together, the combining of forces. Yes, the combining of how we're going to get at this. I just, I think it has a monetary value that would not be my motivation to your point, though.

[Ken Coleman]

That's all I'm saying. I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not the driving decision.

[Ken Coleman]

We just happen to have a position that the money plays out as well. In other words, we think this is a moral decision that also has money implications in the positive. And it's not our opinion, by the way. Dave's right. There are tons of studies. In fact, there's probably a new one that comes out every year about the financial advantages of being married.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Now the 35 year old as an example, it's not Max's situation again, but the 35 year old that is married has 13 times the net worth of an unmarried 35 year old. There it is. That means shacked up, and that means single, and that means divorced and that means widowed. It could be anything. But an unmarried 35 year old has 13 times less money on average. In America, it's a huge advantage. Married men live nine years longer on average than unmarried men. Deloney thinks it's cause wives keep us from doing stupid stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

There's no question. I don't think that's the singular issue, but clearly a key issue.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna ate that? Ye, yes, I'm gonna eat that.

[Ken Coleman]

It's really true.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm gonna have two of them.

[Ken Coleman]

Or this is the one that I get a lot. You're gonna try that. Are you aware of how old you are? You know, it's like the thing that could cause a lot of bodily harm, which might begin the downfall.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that's an actual. That's an actual number. And married ladies only live four years longer than unmarried ladies, so it extends male.

[Ken Coleman]

What is it that we do for women? Let's get something. A score for the men here. How do we do that? Allows women to live longer.

[Dave Ramsey]

I. What do you suspect? I. I don't Net worth. I couldn't either. So. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's Deloney's take on it. I don't know. I mean. All right, but seriously, there's all this data on your. Your. Your not only your in. Oh. Incomes. Married men's incomes are way higher than unmarried men's incomes. Way higher. And I suspect that's because there's a lash on their back. I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

I got it, Dave. It just came to me. The reason that married women live four years longer, if I got that right, is because they have more purpose in continually trying to take care of us and raise us. The maternal instinct of a married woman remains strong even after their children leave because they're taking care of us. I think that's what it is. I'm going to stick to that.

[Dave Ramsey]

They have purpose. They have purpose.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're probably on to something.

[Caller]

I love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well, make a healthy profit and grow. And your team, family and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic and you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it all alone. That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system. Accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further. Automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time, and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster. You're making decisions confidently and when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And yeah, switching systems is a big move. But NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to netsuite.comramsey for a free product tour and to schedule time with a NetSuite rep. That's NetSuite.com Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Thank you for joining us. Brad is with us in Chicago. Hey Brad, how are you doing?

[Caller]

Good, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my question is should we or should you ever borrow money for your tithe?

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you have to do that?

[Caller]

So we own a business and we had a pretty successful year but we bought some equipment and we paid cash for that, which kind of left us a little bit cash depleted here in December to be able to. What I like to do is give, you know, at least 10%, if not more. So my question would be you give.

[Dave Ramsey]

10% of your net profit, right?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, purchasing equipment lowers your net profit, does it not?

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, but I would depreciate it over seven years.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that's a tax issue. That's not a tithe issue. If I spend a million dollars on a piece of equipment, I don't have the million dollars anymore. Correct.

[Caller]

But if I look at my income statement, it would still show, you know, a pretty healthy property.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the tithe is not on that. The tithe is not on taxable income. The tithe is on net increase according to Deuteronomy. If we're getting technical, I mean, I assume you're asking a technical biblical question. And so I'm approaching it from that angle. To start with, I'm not a Pharisee about this and I don't think God is either. I'm pretty sure based on my study of scriptures that God loves a cheerful giver and he loves tithers as much as he loves non tithers. And when in doubt, I over give because when I get up there, I don't want to be wrong. It's not any harder than that for me. Okay, so it's not. I don't try to figure it out too much. I tithe on my taxable cash flow income. So if I spend a million dollars on a piece of equipment, regardless of what the IRS says, they don't get to enter into the discussion on my spiritual walk for God's. Sakes, really. So, I mean, I don't really care what the EBITDA is and I don't care what the venture capitalist says. All I care is what's my net increase. And I do that prior to taxes, what my net cash flow is for the year. And usually not counting depreciation issues. It would be your taxable income, would be what you would deal with, again, with a lot of grace and mercy, because this is more of that. But no, I would never borrow money because there's a lot of indications in scripture not to borrow money. And so to borrow money and go against one scripture in order to keep another scripture is oxymoronic. So no, we wouldn't do that ever. But just the point is you don't need to if you just define tithing a little differently. So to start with, and Ken, you're a pastor's kid. I want to get your. Yeah, my theological upbringing as a PC. But the pk. But the. Seriously. And I'm a tither, okay. I'm an evangelical Christian and I believe in giving a tenth of your income to your local church. And as I study tithing, it is a New Testament thing, I believe I have good friends that disagree with me and they're wrong. We have all these wonderful arguments, Christian arguments, right. That are fun. But when in doubt, I give. Because the purpose of the tithe is not because God needs your money. And the purpose of your tithe is not so that God loves you more. And the purpose of the tithe is certainly not salvation. And a tither is not a better Christian than a non tither. None of that applies because we're all walking. We're all sinners, saved by grace. Those of us that are Christians, okay, And that's what we call ourselves. So we're all walking in this abundance of grace and mercy. So why does God have us to give? He has us to give to practice being a giver.

[Ken Coleman]

I will say that my challenge, if I understood Brad correctly, my challenge with his question, of course we're not going to borrow. So that's honestly nonsensical and non biblical. However, the principle of tithing is about the first fruits. First fruits. So I don't think it's okay to spend a million dollars on equipment and not have any money left over to actually I get taxable income. I don't disagree with anyone said, well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it is first fruits, meaning it's off the. But it's off the top of your profits. I understand Deuteronomy and first fruits. Are in the same thing. I understand Deuteronomy says of your net increase.

[Ken Coleman]

I totally agree. But in a business. Here's where I'm sticking.

[Dave Ramsey]

The first part of your net increase.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Spent on a really.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's not a net increase. If I increase payroll, then I've increased my expenses and my business did not profit as much. So I don't need to tithe before I pay the payroll. I tithe after I pay the payroll, and I tithe out of the very first dollar of profit after I pay the payroll. That's the first part. It's not first before expenses, after expenses.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. I agree with that. But what I'm getting at is that you, I think as a steward of your business, need to manage your books. Payroll is one thing, a really expensive piece of equipment, I think to be able to say, well, I brought in all this money and I had all these expenses. I have a challenge with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know you don't agree with me.

[Ken Coleman]

But I'm challenged by that.

[Dave Ramsey]

How do you.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know enough about his equipment.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't either. But maybe you're saying he bought too much stuff and took his margins down to nothing.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what I'm saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, that might be risky. Okay, But I mean, out of the 300,000 that Ramsey takes in, I don't take anywhere near that.

[Ken Coleman]

And we agree. We agree on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most of it leaves in expenses. Okay. No, I completely agree on salaries and everything else. I don't. Just because the company has revenue of 300. 300 million. I said 300,000. 300 million. Just because it has 300 million in revenue doesn't mean I get 300 million. Right. That's not a. That's not how that works.

[Ken Coleman]

But then. And again. And I'm. Again, I didn't get the follow up. But my point is I'd want to know what that spending is on, because in your case it's not willy nilly. And we're trying to get out of. The second thing is the tithe also is what he pays himself. Assuming he's paying himself something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's what it should be on.

[Ken Coleman]

So the tithe is on what you pay yourself. So I just wanted to circle up on that. Again, equipment is equipment. You got to do it. But I'm also saying that I think if you're not careful. And again, I want to not be a Pharisee. And I think you're right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, when in doubt, up the tithe. But, you know, like, for instance, he.

[Ken Coleman]

Should be tithing personally.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll go ahead and take it a step further since you and I are having this discussion, because it's fun. We teach entree leaders to hold back some of their profits in retained earnings, savings to run the business well. And I would not tithe on that until you take it home. I don't, by the way, until I take it home. Because it could be spent in the business. It's here to protect the business, and it could end up being an expense. Like during COVID it was an expense because we had to cover payroll. Right. We used retained earnings, so some of it. So that kind of stuff. And that's taxable, correct?

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, you don't get. The IRS taxes you on that whether you take it home or not. So it's an interesting discussion. But the big thing is good on you for thinking about it. That's good on you for loving your faith walk and your God enough that you even care about the answer to the subject. And good on you for being generous.

[Ken Coleman]

But to borrow to pay a tithe is missing the principle of the tithe.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's missing the whole thing. Yeah, absolutely. Then you're banker tized for you. Oh, I think I'm going to puke a little.

[Caller]

Sam. Hey, y', all, you know I'm all about keeping your budget in check, especially during the holidays. And that's why I always start my grocery shopping during the holidays at Aldi.

[Dave Ramsey]

From fresh produce to holiday favorites and.

[Caller]

Charcuterie boards for parties, Aldi has it all.

[Ken Coleman]

And at prices that will help your family save big.

[Caller]

Up to $4,000 a year for a family of four. So do what I do for my family. Shop at Aldi first to save on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Groceries without sacrificing quality or holiday jewelry.

[Caller]

Find a store near you@ Aldi US.

[Ken Coleman]

That'S a l. D I US savings. Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

[Dave Ramsey]

Alicia is in Maine. Merry Christmas, Alicia. How are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. I'm good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I recently found out I'm pregnant with our second child. Yay. Yeah, we're excited about it. Only thing is, our house is pretty small. It's about 900 square feet. So we've been trying to rack our brains on how to either expand it or be able to afford new house, but my husband is the sole provider, and he makes. He's a mechanic so he doesn't make a ton, but. So we're just really stuck and don't know how to make enough income to bridge the gap in between where we're at now. And if we lose the assistance by making more money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why does him being a mechanic mean he doesn't have money? It should mean he does have money.

[Caller]

Unfortunately, in our area where we live, we're in rural Maine, there's not a lot of opportunities for them to make a lot of money.

[Ken Coleman]

Did I hear you just say losing assistance if he made more money?

[Caller]

Yeah. We're like in this, what are you. Weird place where if we make a little bit more money then we lose assistance from the state.

[Ken Coleman]

I am unfortunately well versed in government program. So you were on some type of welfare?

[Caller]

Yeah. So my daughter is under maintenance care which is like insurance is a huge expense here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I'm sure a lot of other places we save we get about $400 or $500 worth of assistance per month if you count the healthcare and the wic.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not going to do this. But here's what you should do. You should move. Told you.

[Caller]

I know it's so hard because the economy is here.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not hard. People who are broke and have no opportunity in an area have moved to an area where there was opportunity and economic growth since time began.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

The chances that I'm going to let my wife and child be on welfare and live in a 900 square foot home because I can't make any money because we live in an area that doesn't support a normal mechanic salary are zero. I'm going to load up the truck and head to Beverly.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

How long is your family? How long has your family been in the area?

[Caller]

My family has been here. My grandparents are from here.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So long, long time. Have you seen many people get out?

[Caller]

A lot of my generation has left.

[Ken Coleman]

Why do you think they've left?

[Caller]

Yeah, I know it's because of the opportunities.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So you really are. You called us for one reason and I think you didn't expect this, but I mean this really, Dave is absolutely right. You can't call and say how do we increase our income to get a little bit bigger house? You're in a 900 square foot place if you aren't willing to. To get off of government income. And you're right, they will penalize you. That's the whole point of benefits. They're going to cap you and then you get stuck in this cycle. So dangerous.

[Dave Ramsey]

And yet I talked to A guy the other day, and I don't. I know your husband's probably not a diesel mechanic. He's probably a car mechanic. But I talked to a diesel mechanic the other day making 120 a year. They ain't on welfare.

[Caller]

None of them can make good money.

[Dave Ramsey]

They own welfare.

[Caller]

And we don't want to live on welfare. That's our thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then I don't want to live real estate.

[Ken Coleman]

But you're okay with it?

[Caller]

I'm okay with it for now because we don't really have another option that's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gave you one. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

If he's a mechanic, he don't have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Another option for you if you stay there. I do agree.

[Ken Coleman]

I just want to get rid of this. You.

[Dave Ramsey]

He.

[Ken Coleman]

If he can turn a wrench, he can do H Vac, he can do electrical, he can do plumbing. I'm telling you, he can learn. The trades are exploding and you simply need to change zip codes in order to change your income. It's that simple.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd go get a decent cert in a heartbeat and. And be in a major metro area and buy an airline ticket and come home and see grandma every so often. Come on.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, I could keep going welding.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, a roofer, 160,000 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

It's unbelievable. The money people are making, by the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way, makes some of these lawyers look bad. I mean, you know the joke about the plumber and the lawyer, right?

[Ken Coleman]

I'd like to hear it. Actually.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lawyer called a plumber and he came and in 30 seconds he fixed the sink and he said, that's $350. And he goes, well, that's like $2,000 an hour. He goes, I don't make that. I'm a lawyer. He goes, I didn't either when I was a lawyer.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, Mike Rowe would love that. That's great. You know, in all honesty, Dave, you tell. Let's just. I'm just throwing this out there because I think this affects our larger audience. When you start getting outside of. Wait a second. Dave just told us to move. All right. If you go from Maine and we get real crazy and we go to the nearest big metropolitan area in the Northeast, Boston. This is one of the wealthiest cities in the United States. They need tradesmen. And to Dave's point, if you're willing to go to the big city and surrounding areas, by the way, it doesn't have to be in Boston proper, make big bucks, come back and see the family. It's that simple. Look it up. What a tradesman would make in Boston.

[Dave Ramsey]

What a car mechanic working at a Chevy dealership makes. It's a lot more than you're making, honey. They're not on welfare, I promise. So, yeah, you guys have got to make some changes in order for changes to happen. If you keep doing the same thing over and over again, you expect a different result. I don't know if there is a way for him to maximize his income in your area, but I think you know. And I think you know there's not because I don't think your man's lazy. That's not what I said. I don't think he's got opportunity.

[Ken Coleman]

That's why I asked her the question, by the way, if you see people leaving, why, why are they leaving?

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, and sadly, I mean, it's happening to small town USA everywhere. It is, but it is the reality of economics.

[Ken Coleman]

It's just.

[Dave Ramsey]

And when, when, when there is a lack of opportunity, people move. John Grisham had a, an old book out years ago. You know, he's a fiction writer. It's a fiction book called Painted House. But he talks about, he was about a kid growing up in Arkansas cotton fields and dirt poor, you know, white trash and grew up. And he talks about the cousin that moved away to Detroit. This is in the 1940s, in the Great Depression, in the Dust bowl, right. And the cousin that moved away to Detroit and he came back wearing a fancy suit, driving a brand new car, working in the car factory and had married a Yankee wife. You know, and that's what they talk about when he's coming back. But that was a classic example of what you call a diaspora, which is where people move due to war or due to weather. Katrina caused Cajun restaurants to be all over America because people left New Orleans and never went back because everything was torn down, the levees broke, the whole place is flooded. It was a mess. And they just said, screw it, I'm out of here. And consequently, there's Cajuns all over America that weren't planning to be. And you know, you've got economics, you've got a weather, you've got all kinds of other issues that drive it, but sometimes it's just opportunity.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let's not forget. Dave, I'm so glad you took us there. Let's not forget the origins of this great nation as it really began to really explode after colonial times. We're talking about the Statue of Liberty. You're talking about the Irish Scots, the Italians of Eden. New York is the melting pot that it is because People from across the globe said, we're going to leave family and thousands of years of tradition to go have an opportunity. So we're asking somebody to leave rural Maine. Let's not forget how America gets where we are today. It was because people left their homeland. We're talking countries that have been around forever and said, I'm going for opportunity. And it was desperate. You're getting on a ship and going across the Atlantic. I mean, that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you may or may not make it. Yeah, 100%, absolutely. That's just real stuff, y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's not just picking on Alicia and her husband, but it was just something to talk about. It kind of comes back to this thing, too. I can't afford a house. Well, where do you live? I live in San Francisco. Well, of course you can't afford a house. You have to be in the top 1% of income earners to buy a house in San Francisco. Right now I live in downtown Manhattan in New York.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not unless you make 200 grand, you don't. You know, you're going to have to be in Abilene, Texas. Honey. Hello. And you know, you're going to go somewhere where you can afford to live. And so if you, you know, if you're going to buy a home, you may want to think about a different location for some of you, because the economics don't fit. And you can't just decide, well, I'm in California and they don't really do math here. I know they don't do math, but that doesn't mean math doesn't work.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave, we got a lot of.

[Ken Coleman]

Calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing.

[Dave Ramsey]

For their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

It's important to understand the difference between them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Life insurance steps in when you die.

[Ken Coleman]

Disability insurance steps in while you're alive.

[Dave Ramsey]

But can't work, so it replaces a.

[Ken Coleman]

Large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get.

[Dave Ramsey]

Back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance. Great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go to they make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family. Don't wait.

[Ken Coleman]

It's fast, it's easy, and it could.

[Dave Ramsey]

Make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, Protect your family. The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by why Refi if you've been turned down by other lenders because your private student loans are in default? Well, why refi is for you. They help borrowers restart with dignity and a clear direction to get out. Check out yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not in all states.

[Ken Coleman]

Today's question comes from Victoria in New Hampshire. My father in law started a business many years ago but hasn't been actively managing it. So my husband and I have been running it. The three of us are on the company payroll along with our employees. My father in law feels the profit should belong to him because he started the business. We want to include him, but we also need to make wise financial decisions about the money that we, not him, have worked hard to earn and manage. How can we honor our parents while still being responsible stewards of the business we now run full time? I had dinner just the other night with our mutual dear friend Henry Cloud and I can just see boundaries flashing light here. I understand the frustration that we can read into this email, but the reality is the father in law did in fact start the business.

[Dave Ramsey]

It does own it, still owns it. You don't own it.

[Ken Coleman]

So we don't have clear boundaries, professional boundaries as to who does what, why they do it, how they get paid. It's just kind of you guys have all just been going about your business and now there's tension because there isn't clearly defined lines. And without that, if Dave and I were on some of those one of those goofy judge shows, I'd be going, look, I get your frustration, but this isn't your business. So you're very little that you can do here until we sit down with father in law and ask for some type of restructuring, at which point he gets to decide what he's going to do with his business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, look, we don't want to run it anymore and not be the owners. That's what you're actually saying. And so we did not. We took it over just as a favor to you. And we've run it for a while. But. But we need to go on with our lives and our career. And so we're going to move on unless we can work something out to where we become the owners of this. But we're not going to continue to work here as employees because that's what you are. You're not due any of the profits. Victoria, you're wrong. That's right, you're wrong. You don't own it. You work for someone else that owns the property, owns the business. And you should have changed that when you walked in the door. So now you've got to go back and unspill the milk, which is very difficult. But so the conversation is, hey, dad, we came in, we stepped up, we helped you out for a while, but that's not working for us long term because you keep all the profits and we do all the work. And so we either want to work out something where over the next little while we become the owners through some process that you feel good about and that we feel good about, or we're going to have to look for a different career and you're gonna have to look for a different manager for your business. And either one of those is okay. But you guys went in here and sat on your assumptions, and your assumptions were that you were going to be the owner. And no one said out loud that you were or weren't. And so you weren't because the title to the business is still in his name. So he is due 100% of the profits. He owns the business. You don't own it. And you have to change that. Or if you don't change it and don't like the arrangement, you need to move on. Either one of those is fine. And that's not dishonoring or honoring to your parents. You use stewardship and honor parents. So I'm sensing a hyper Christian take on this stuff. And it's not dishonoring to parents to have boundaries. It's not dishonoring to someone to say, I don't want to work here when someone leaves. Ramsey, it's not dishonoring to me unless they intentionally dishonor me. But I mean, just the fact that they don't want to work here anymore doesn't mean that I'm a hopeful person or that I'm automatically that they. That they think I'm an awful person. A lot of times they have something else they want to do that's different. That's all. And so that's not dishonoring in any way.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, there's something there. You just pulled out that class. How can we honor our parents while still being responsible stewardship.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the thing.

[Ken Coleman]

That is a bit of a self righteous tone that you can clearly see there. And here's the lesson from this. Unclear expectations lead to bad relations.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

That's 100% of anger every time because you had this expectation. Your father in law had a very different expectation. Nobody got clear about it. At least to write it down and get some concrete steps moving forward. Dave, you've nailed it here.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get angry when you expect something you didn't get.

[Ken Coleman]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Like when you tried to chip shot that shot up onto the green the other day and you missed. Yeah, that, that's anger right there. I saw that.

[Ken Coleman]

That's frustration.

[Dave Ramsey]

You expected that to work and it didn't work.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And I chili dipped it and it went six yards and it's supposed to be a 35 yard shot. That is. That is my expectations number one being unrealistic. Let's start since we're going to teach out of this. I don't play golf enough to be good enough to expect it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was just an no, but it's actually a great illustration. Let's just mix metaphors. An underhand pitch. But yeah. So all right. Too fun. So that's it. Yeah. The secret to happiness is lowered expectations and clear ones.

[Ken Coleman]

Realistic and clear. That would be your two attributes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lisa. Cleveland. Hey, Lisa.

[Ken Coleman]

What's up?

[Caller]

Hi. How you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call. I just started listening to you this year and I'm undertaking student loans for the first time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. You mean you're getting ready to pay them or you're taking them out?

[Caller]

Getting ready to pay them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good.

[Caller]

Starting in January. So I have a plan all laid out, but I just need a little bit of advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

First of all financial and then the second of all, the more spiritual. So it might be a first on this show. So my first question, financ student loans. Should I refinance them or should I just start Paying them off starting in January. It's 6.25 for both of them. I have a subsidized loan at $29,407.48.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't refinance student loans unless you get a better interest rate.

[Caller]

Right. I want a lower one.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you get a lower one, you get one time, one time you can refinance student loans. And so you gotta feel really good about the new interest rate that you're gonna get. It's gonna be way lower. And you don't think interest rates are going down, which they might be, by the way. So I would not refinance right now. I might wait till the end of the year on government insured. We're talking about federally insured student loans, right?

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, so wait til towards the end of the year and let's see if rates come on down a little more. So if you've got six and you can get a four and a half. Yeah, yeah, let's get a better rate. Rate's not going to save you. What's your balances?

[Caller]

So for the subsidized one is 29,000 and some change. And for the unsubsidized one is 50,000 some change. A total of 79,000 some change.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 1% of 79,000 is $700. So if you save 1% by refinancing, you save $700. That doesn't go a long way toward paying off 79,000. So the secret sauce is not a lower interest rate to getting out of debt. The secret sauce is you dumping tons of money on these things and getting rid of them fast.

[Caller]

Right. And that's my goal. So a little bit of backstory. I'm a traveling CNA certified nursing assistant. Good. We don't get paid like the nurses do, but, you know, that's why I started traveling.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you get paid more than staying at home?

[Caller]

Yes, yes, absolutely. Yes, yes. So I been traveling for eight years. I got these student loans back in my 20s. I'm much older now. Tag on about 15 years. And three things really jarred me into, like, come on, you. I mean, Lisa, you got to do it. You got to do it. So I ended up getting a couple of travel contracts in New York. And I get one that, you know, pays very well through a hospital nursing home. And with overtime, I take home roughly, if I get 16 hours a week, I take home about 8,000 something dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, that's awesome. Live on nothing, kiddo. And dump it on these student loans and clean it up. They've been following you around for too long. They're not a pet. Let's evict them. Sallie Mae is an ugly woman. Throw her in the.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Ken Coleman]

The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive. Between gifts, travel, and about a thousand limited time offers, your budget can start.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

So stop stressing over your budget and start saving. Instead, go to boostmobile.com Ramsey and unwrap the savings today.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's boostmobile.com Ramsey restrictions apply.

[Ken Coleman]

See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't looking to make a buck and agents who really know their stuff. Ramsey trusted insurance pros are vetted and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interests at heart. They're independent agents. They don't work for one company. They work for you. And search several companies. Go to ramseysolutions.com coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and to connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. Wilson is in Knoxville. Hi, Wilson, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, good afternoon, Dave. I'm doing all right. I reaching out to you. I watched a lot of the episodes online, give a little backstory. My father passed away in July. I'm sorry and thank you. He, he divided his estate with me and my two sisters and I had bought a house in July. Maybe two weeks into having the house, dad, Daddy passed away. So my question to you is it's kind of a two parter. Number one. I don't want to get rid of my father's house because my two sisters didn't grow up there. I grew up there and you know, that was the house from all my childhood memories. You know, it's a real sentimental piece to me. My two sisters, however, do want to just sell off the, sell off everything. It's kind of a big lot too. Along with dad's house, there's a house next door that would be my grandma's old house. We're selling that and then it's, I guess maybe in total, 5, 6 acres with a working farm, a barn, a detached garage. So it's, it's A big chunk of land. So I guess first off, my question is, what would you do if you were in my position on that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, your dad's will dictates that everything be split three ways. And generally that means the assets will be sold off. So that was pretty much your father's intent.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I think your sisters are going along with that. Now, what is the house that you grew up in? What's it worth?

[Caller]

We haven't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, about. Give me a number.

[Caller]

We'll say maybe 600,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What's the grandma's house and barn and so forth worth?

[Caller]

Grandma's house? I would say we'll say 200 just for the house. And if you add on the land bar and all that, you might be looking at maybe 455.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so this is a million dollars worth of property. And did your dad have other assets, substantial assets?

[Caller]

No, nothing that would really stick out on that. No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so there's not like $2 million in Exxon stock or something?

[Caller]

No, no, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

He.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because we could give your sisters that and you took the land. I mean, you could divvy it up three ways ways, and you end up with it. But basically, most of the larger portion of almost all of his estate is these two pieces of property. A million dollars worth, right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so if. In. What is your personal home worth, Wilson?

[Caller]

We'll say right at 300,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you make, Sir.

[Caller]

I would say about 5. 5,500amonth. My year to date right now is. I think I'm right at 70,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. So the ma. The math. The math says this.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That you're. You lost your dad and it breaks your heart.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And with that, you're not in a position to buy your childhood home. And so it's going to be someone else's home now.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're going to get your memories and your nostalgia from something other than the family home place.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So my grandmother grew up in a home that was her parents beforehand. My dad grew up in that home. And when my grandmother and grandfather passed away, none of the three brothers and sisters, my dad, aunt and uncle, had any need of that home in several acres, a beautiful old place, and they sold it. And I was. As one of the grandkids, I was kind of sad. But it also was a very reasonable thing to do for an adult because you go, I mean, what am I going to do? Move to another town in this old house, old country house, just because it's sentimental? No, I'm not. And it doesn't make sense. And so it needs to be sold and it needs to be divvied up. But there's a sadness that goes with that. And you've got that sadness combined with the sadness of losing your dad this year. And so it's kind of a. It's kind of the year of heartbreak for you. And I'm sorry.

[Caller]

I guess my. Leading to the other question I had once. I guess everything's all sold and say I get my. My portion, whatever check cut today. In your opinion, what would be a good investment opportunity for me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, do you have a mortgage on your home?

[Caller]

Sir, yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'd pay it off.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have any other debt?

[Caller]

All right. No, my. My personal. My personal truck. I paid that off last year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And you know, my fiance, she. We've already got the wedding paid for everything coming up in May.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And let me. Oh, congratulations on that. But that's good news. So a new. A new fresh start and everything. And let me encourage you this. I don't think your sisters are bad people. I don't want you to have ill will towards them because they're just doing what your dad said to do.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not, you know, none of y' all are going to live in that house. You can't afford to. And so they're liquidating it and splitting it three ways. And that's how he had set up his life. And so they're not doing anything wrong, sir. So the last thing I want you to do is lose your dad, lose the house, and then lose relationship with your sisters, too.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Wilson, I'm just sitting here listening. I want you to reframe this. Your dad, in his generosity, is essentially paying for your first home for you to get started in your new life with your new wife. This is a blessing. I think that's truly what you need to do is go, man. My dad, he left me and my sisters with enough for me to start my life debt free, essentially.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a big deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you can become very, very wealthy as a result of that. Your fiance's income combined with yours and no house payments. Payment. And no payments. I mean, you're gonna be making a hundred something thousand dollars a year between the two of you or more. And you're young and. Yeah. But also, it's okay to just say out loud that this hurts and it's sad and I don't. I don't like it, but I do like the future that he Gave you. So I'm gonna go with that. That's a good reframe, Ken. I like that.

[Ken Coleman]

And you know, you got this barn and all this. You know, before you sell it, is there something nostalgic from the house or the barn that, that you take to your sisters? You go, hey, I'd like to take this and there you can take something with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. You know, you know, and honestly, truthfully, if you're going to have something nostalgic, it ought to be a little smaller.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's exactly right. Like obviously get a cool sign.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got my grandma's bible. I don't have her house. Okay. I would. That's it. Easier to carry around. Yeah, that's true. So yeah. And I got my grandpa's gun and that's easier to carry around. Right. And so. Which is kind of how we did things. She had the bible, he had the gun. But that's. Yeah. Wow. And so yeah, look for nostalgic things like that because memories are not in real estate dirt. Bricks and mortar and real estate can trap you with emotions. Family dirt that's generationally been there. I've seen some of the worst decisions in my life made, watched people make some of the worst decisions in the name of the emotions of generational family dirt.

[Caller]

Dirt.

[Dave Ramsey]

And man, you can just get trapped in the emotions of that. When the old man that bought it originally would have never wanted that. Right. You know, now, you know, the great grandpa in this case or whatever or my great great grandpa would have not wanted us to do something stupid with that piece of ground I was talking about a minute ago.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And in the name of family dirt because it was just something he bought, you know, it wasn't family dirt before he bought it. So somebody now somebody else's family dirt. So let's just. There we go. Hey, Wilson, there's a lot of good can come from this. You and your sisters can be closer, get a good fresh start. And it's okay to say it's that I'm sad about it. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and host of front row seat Ramsey network's runaway hit. He's my co host. I'm Dave Ramsey. The phone number here is 888-255-2225. Merry Christmas America. We're glad you're here. Ryan is with us in Salt Lake City. Hey Ryan, what's up in your world? Hi, Dave.

[Caller]

Hi, Ken. Thanks for taking my call. My wife and I are in baby step seven with a net worth of about $1.6 million. I'm calling because I have a plan to leave my corporate job for my side hustle and I kind of need a sanity check. I just want to know if I'm being a fool to trade security for independence or is this exactly what baby step seven is for?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, give us the numbers. I love this question. Tell us what your income is in your corporate job.

[Caller]

Okay, so I make close to 200,000 a year right now. And the side hustle, this is not great. Consistently it's about 2000amonth that I bring in net and that has been over the course of two years, a consistent 2,000 that we can count on.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it?

[Caller]

So it's just buying and selling abandoned storage units. I tried the first one as kind of a hobby and now my wife calls this my hobby jobby and I buy five or six a year, so it's really not a lot. And I've just done this in my spare time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, this is just above a hobby.

[Caller]

Me.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's right.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 44.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is she?

[Caller]

She's 39.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she make?

[Caller]

So up until about four months ago, she only had part time jobs and worked in the home. But starting in September she got a full time job as a teacher, her dream job that she's always wanted to do. And now she's making about $4,000 a month net. So she's netting 4,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do at your corporate job? What's your career?

[Caller]

So I'm a software developer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

The answer is no because we always answer, what would we do if we were in your shoes?

[Dave Ramsey]

And would I walk away from a $200,000 gig for a $24,000 hobby?

[Ken Coleman]

Not at 44.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

You still got a lot of earning potential. I think there's still a transition. I think you need a better side hustle. And let me just tell you my rule of thumb on when leave a full time job to a side hustle just so that you have some context because you're not there. But I would want a minimum of six to 12 months of my income and in your case that's 200,000. I would want six to 12 months of that in the retained earnings is what we call it here in the company, the side hustle's bank account, before I even thought about moving out. But in your case, I don't even think that's the right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. Because I would just say some percentage of your income.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a hard to scale business.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you had a side hustle that was 150, you know, you could make that jump.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here's the thing. I going from you said software engineer. Is that what you said?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

From software engineer to junk dealer is probably not my plan. I understand that there's probably. There's probably a middle ground here. I liked what you said. From corporate world to independence. Yeah, let's talk about that. And how can we maybe be a software engineer Freelance. Start doing some consulting contracts and you decide who and when you want to work for and all that kind of stuff. And maybe you make 250 doing that. I don't know. You don't necessarily have to go down, but you got your independence and you can set your hours and do some of that stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

Sounds like you got a pitch. I want to hear this out a little bit more because I do have a follow up question. Go ahead. I know you want to say something.

[Caller]

If I could push back just a little bit. About two years ago, I was ready to just jump and leave the corporate world. I was burnt out and I still am. And I felt like I could barely hold on. I found something that I could gravitate towards and something that I loved and was passionate about and something that I felt really proud that I had built and bootstrapped from a $500 initial investment to something that consistently makes $2,000 a month in cash. And we also planned two years ago. I knew I couldn't jump then. It would be ridiculous to try and say that I can replace a $200,000 a year income ever. But that's not what I want. Why would. I don't want to pile up money in a bank account just to have $10 million when I retire if I'm not happy and my soul felt like it had been sucked out of my body.

[Ken Coleman]

Totally get it. Let me ask you a quick question on that. What would you say is the greatest source of your burnout? Is it people? Is it the environment? Is it the workload? Those are usually the big three. What is it for you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I would say it's the corporate nonsense and the lack of independence that there's just so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

None of those mean you have to make less to be happy.

[Caller]

I know, but does it mean that I need to make more or the same to be happy if I can be content?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, but it's just. But to automatically assume less equals happy is a. That's a. That's A not a proper framework.

[Caller]

Yeah, I understand.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let me ask you another question.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm very happy and I make a lot more.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm sure.

[Ken Coleman]

What has to happen, Ryan, you've done this long enough to know something about this business. If you gave it 40 hours a week, what do you anticipate the income becoming?

[Caller]

I thought about this a lot and I've had. So here's my plan. So the best month that I've had was $6,000 in net profit and that was from buying multiple lockers instead of having to space them out so much because I had more spare time to do it. I have a sabbatical coming up because I do have a great corporate job. It's very cushy. You know, I have a sabbatical that comes up for having worked at the same company for 15 years. Years. And I have six weeks off in March. I want to take that six weeks and I want to bust my butt and put my nose to the grindstone and see what I can do. Putting 40 hours, 50, 60 hours a week.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you think you can do? What do you think you can do?

[Caller]

I think that I could average 6,000amonth and I could have breakout months of 10.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so I'm going to tell you something after hearing your cause of burnout and I'm on your team, but I'm going to give you some tough love. That is a mindset issue that you actually can control. I didn't hear toxic environment. I didn't hear a jerk boss. I heard cushy job. So let me tell you what's going on. You can control your desire and your desire is to be independent. I love it. But I'm going to tell you this right now. I love the six week sabbatical. Do not quit your job right now. This is the advice I would give to myself. Let's prove out this hypothesis the six weeks, but let's not immediately quit if that goes well. And I think you need to change your mindset starting today that yes, what's really going on in this burnout is I'm spending all my time thinking about my desired future. And I'm not willing to be patient to get to that desired future in a much better way. And I think you're just so ready to leave and be your own guy that you're missing what is a phenomenal platform by which to step into that desired future. I think you can step into it too soon and talk yourself into making less money. Because I just want to be happy I think you need to be wise. I think more wisdom, less happy is the mindset right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm a little bit afraid. No, I'm a lot afraid that you've confused the freedom that you feel doing this business with an actual passion for the business.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'Re just buying and selling junk. I mean, it's okay. It's not exactly like you're changing the world or there's passion. Where's the passion come? The passion comes from your independent and you're controlling your own destiny and that's where you're getting your passion from. It's not the actual actions. And I think you can do that in a way that is better for your family at 44 years old than $24,000 each here. When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start, answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money. Starting Today, go with ramseysolutions.com start. If you feel like you're always starting from scratch with your money. Well, trust me, you're not alone. It's not because you aren't disciplined. It's because you're emotionally overwhelmed. I'll start again next month. No, that's not managing your money. It's emotional survival mode. You're stuck because you're ignoring the emotions that work with your personal finance. In our new book, what no one tells you about Money, Jade Warshaw, our Ramsey personality gives you a clear guided process that helps you diagnose the emotions fueling your daily money decisions. Gives you a clear path. You can do this stuff pre order right now for $24.99 and get over $100 in free. Bonus items, items. An enhanced audio book book comes out in January, but we bribe you to buy it early because it helps our marketing. So we give you 100 bucks worth of stuff for $24 purchase. Shut up. That's a deal. The early access to the ebook, instant access to an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade, exclusive 3 week online book club and a live Q and A all with Jade. You are going to love this. Jade and her husband paid off $460,000 worth of debt. Yeah, they know the emotions and she can walk you through, help you navigate this. Pre order [e-mail] store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Cindy's in Dallas. Hi, Cindy. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you?

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So I have two paid off vehicles. Six Honda Odyssey and a 2010 Chevy Traverse. But I keep having so many repairs. I don't make a lot each month. I'm a single parent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why do you have two cars?

[Caller]

Well, they each keep breaking down.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have a spare?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have a teenager?

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

It's me and kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are the kids?

[Caller]

They're all 10 and under three of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you don't really need two cars.

[Caller]

My problem is whenever one breaks down, I use the other. But they both have so many.

[Dave Ramsey]

What if you sold them both and piled the money together and got a good car?

[Caller]

I don't know that anyone would give me a whole lot for both. I don't want to end up back where I'm at. Like, one needs a timing chain and the other it's been leaking oil. I just. I feel like I don't have enough to get a decent.

[Dave Ramsey]

How do you know?

[Caller]

Gonna have the same problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

How do you know?

[Caller]

I've asked around for people to buy the. The worst.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who'd you ask?

[Caller]

I've asked two different mechanics. A dealer.

[Dave Ramsey]

You ask a mechanic to buy your car?

[Caller]

Well, he sells used cars.

[Dave Ramsey]

I bet he does. Which means he buys yours cheap and resells it for a profit. Bad information. Okay. I want you to take these cars and look them up on kelley Blue Book, kbb.com private sale. I think you have a $3,000 car and a $5,000 car. That's what I think. And I think that's $8,000. And then you go get an $8,000 car. Do you have any money at all?

[Caller]

All. I have some, but I've put thousands into.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you have in money?

[Caller]

I have about 2,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so if you got 8,000 out of these two cars and put your last 2,000 with it, you could buy a $10,000 car. Do you have any family in the area?

[Caller]

Some.

[Dave Ramsey]

What?

[Caller]

I have some.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's some who?

[Caller]

My parents.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You say that with great enthusiasm. How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 34.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How long have you been by yourself, kid?

[Caller]

Three years.

[Ken Coleman]

Is there a large church, what we call mega church or good sized church or multiple good sized churches in your area?

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's in Dallas.

[Caller]

Yeah, there's a large church.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Here's what I want you to do because you're a single mom. And I'm not saying these churches all have it, but I know several churches in our area have a program where they help single moms that have automobile issues. So that could be a free mechanic to get this timing belt changed to then be able to sell as Dave has been. My point is, I want you to know that there is some real possibilities for help. But you've got to know that as a single mom, there are people out there that want to help you with the car they may give you. There's a large church that Dave and I go to. We give cars away to single moms. You got to be okay asking for help here because it feels like if we can fix this car situation, this is going to take a huge lid of stress off of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Am I right?

[Caller]

Yeah, it would be a lot better.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you willing to show up and say, I need help?

[Caller]

I've applied to one of their programs. I didn't hear back from that one.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm sorry about that. But I would show you up, call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Them again, Prove to them that you.

[Ken Coleman]

Aren'T a deadbeat, which you're not, and that you're taken care of. Let them know who you are.

[Dave Ramsey]

You applied to a program with a church?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Usually there's some type of.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. And they didn't call back.

[Caller]

I mean, they have something where you have to call in at 6 in the morning and you. You have to go through an application for them to.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let's go.

[Caller]

One family.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's go. You're in a desperate situation. Let's. Let's get up at 5am for that.

[Caller]

I have applied to increase my VA disability.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm hoping that that will you completely sidestep the suggestion.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to go do what Ken's telling you to do. And then when you get ready to sell these two cars, I would ask that you get your brother or your dad or one of the gentlemen from a local church to go with you in the sale and in the repurchase to help you select something in the repurchase. Not that you're not able to, but you want another set of eyes looking at the mechanical ability so you don't buy another problem. Okay.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you might even get it inspected before you buy it. So if you could find a $10,000 car from a grandmother that is selling it on a garage sale, and you probably could get a very good car for that kind of money right now, and you probably can put that money together from these two vehicles, you may have to go through that church program at 5 o' clock in the morning that Ken's talking about, get that timing belt changed and cause all this to happen. But what you're doing has to change because what you're doing is not working. Would you agree with that?

[Caller]

Yes. It's impossible to save and keep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. And you're getting tired and you're by yourself and you're getting the crud beat out of you by this situation. I can feel the fatigue in your voice. I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you're tough. You are a tough lady. You're a warrior princess. And you can fight through this. But you're gonna have to start making some big moves to get these. These cars need to be gone. A spare because both of them suck is not a plan.

[Caller]

Yeah. I've been trying to follow what you said about buying in cash. And I bought the van in June for $675. And I knew it needed some repairs, but it just. It keeps needing repairs.

[Ken Coleman]

We've never told anybody to buy a $675 van.

[Dave Ramsey]

I have, but I didn't tell her that.

[Ken Coleman]

I guess I hope he is in that range. Yeah. No, listen, keep your head up. Listen, get your head up. Here's what I need you to know, that there are people who are willing to help you, and you've got to swallow. I'm not saying you're prideful at all, but we all have it. I think you've got to show up and say, will you help me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that we've got some pretty good connections there.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not going to name their names on the air, but we'll make some calls for you there and see if we can help you get tied into a good local church and see if they can walk you through some help. Okay. Because you need some help and I'm going to ask. Ask your dad. It sounds like that's not a comfortable relationship, but to ask him to help you select the next thing and get rid of these two so that you can get into a decent car. And maybe I'm wrong. If you bought it for 675, you might not have $8,000 worth of vehicles. I'm probably wrong on my math, but. Yeah. The thing is, we've got to get the two of these put together with a little money and some wisdom and get you into something where cars are not consuming your life anymore, hon. So you hang on. Christian's gonna pick up and he'll get you with our church guys. We have a department that works with churches. Christian. You can put her with Josh and he'll help her find somebody that's got a car program there in Dallas. There's a bunch of them that do, I'm sure. I don't want to name any of them. I know a bunch of them, but I don't want to name them on the air and put them on the spot. But we'll take care of her, make sure she's okay.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's one of the best times of the year, but it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, buy, buy. So you start swiping the credit card and suddenly it's January and you got a mess on your hands. Don't let that happen. Tell your money where to go instead of wondering where it went with our budgeting app, EveryDollar. EveryDollar not only helps you stay on budget and in control of your spending this holiday season, it also helps you find extra margin in your budget. Thousands of dollars of it. And every day will coach you to build better money habits and attack your goals faster than ever. So while most people will be starting in January with a taste of regret in their mouth, you'll already be winning. Winning. Start every dollar for free by downloading the app today. Taylor is with us in Houston, Texas. Merry Christmas. Christmas, Taylor, how are you? Well, maybe if I push the button, Taylor would be there. Hi, Taylor, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave, I'm doing great. How are you, sir?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. I see on my screen you're a baby steps millionaire. Congratulations.

[Caller]

Thank you very much.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much is your net worth, sir?

[Caller]

1.1 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. How old are you?

[Caller]

32.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow. Young one. Good for you. And what's the breakdown of your 1.1 million? How's it invested?

[Caller]

Well, it's pretty simple, Dave. I've got 570,000 in my 401k. I've got 125,000 in my Roth IRA, 170,000 in taxable. My home's worth about 250,000 and I've got about 20,000 in cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Well done. Well done. And what do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm a union electrician.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, very good. Good for you. You, what's your wife do?

[Caller]

I'm single. I'm not married.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, okay. And you did all this by 32. Did you inherit anything?

[Caller]

No, sir, not a penny.

[Dave Ramsey]

Zero inheritance. So you're an electrician at 32 years old and you've got a $1.1 million net worth. I think that kind of rests our case on the trades, doesn't it?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

How old were you when you started?

[Caller]

20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so 12 years.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

You paid off the house and stacked the 401k?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. I paid off my house about three months ago, actually.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Good for you. How does that feel, man? Did you ever think we started as an electrician at 20 years old, that you were going to be a millionaire at 32?

[Caller]

No, I definitely didn't think that it was going to be possible. It was always a dream. But I started listening to you about 10 years ago and set myself the goal to achieve becoming a millionaire and being able to be on your radio show. And here we are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look at that, man. Congratulations.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you have a, what did you do an apprenticeship or did you get some kind of a certification degree or what?

[Caller]

So I actually got a scholarship out of high school from a local plant that I really wanted to work at and they put me through a two year associate's degree program. And after I finished that, I was lucky to get hired on there. And I did go through a three year apprenticeship program within. And then so. And ever, ever since then, it's just been just staying steady and being consistent.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what was your starting income when you started all that?

[Caller]

My first year. Been very blessed. My first year was 95,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what do you make now?

[Caller]

About 200, 210.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

As an electrician, I love this call. This makes me so happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Incredible. Incredible. How does it feel to be at this point at 32 years old? Does it ever look at that and go, wow?

[Caller]

Well, I do. It doesn't really feel any different as far as how I've always felt, but it is a nice milestone to reach and I just look forward to just continuing to save and invest and see what other goals I can reach.

[Dave Ramsey]

You think it can still be done? If somebody's listening right now and they're 20 and they started an apprenticeship program, an associate's degree and move out in electrician. You think that can still be done in America?

[Caller]

Absolutely, 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

What'd you pay for your house?

[Caller]

242.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. In Houston, Texas?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. I'm about an hour outside of Houston. I'm in more of a rural area.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the area?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Bay City.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah, I know Bay City.

[Caller]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have any.

[Dave Ramsey]

So does 242. Buy a pretty decent house in Bay City, Texas right now?

[Caller]

Yes, sir, I would say so. It's a three bed, two bath, 2,000 square feet and a nice, nice neighborhood, quiet, established neighborhood.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I think that's, I think that addresses the affordability concerns we hear.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Yeah, definitely.

[Ken Coleman]

Question, do you have plans or have you allowed yourself to wonder about, about owning your own business as an electrician or what do you think about professionally now that you've been in this field for, let's call it 10, 12 years?

[Caller]

I have, I have thought about it. I've thought about what other opportunities I could get into as far as additional income streams.

[Ken Coleman]

What have you identified? Not saying you're going to do it, but what have you identified? Because I want our audience to hear what these options. Options might be.

[Caller]

Well, one of them is I've, I've kind of always been interested in owning maybe an RV park. We're kind of in a big industrial area where I'm at.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a lot of plants and a.

[Caller]

Lot of industry around and it seems like the RV parks are always full, just constant, constant, you know, visitors and contractors, workers coming through. So that was always something that I've been interested in.

[Ken Coleman]

And that cash position and no debt sets you up to be able to do that. All right, I have another question for parents that are listening right now and they've got a kid who is either said something about it or maybe they wonder if their kid is a college kid and maybe they're feeling cultural pressure about that, if their kid's handy a little bit, leans towards some of the skill sets that could work in a trade. But they're worried about the perception of that not going to a four year school. What would you say to those parents?

[Caller]

I would say there's some excellent opportunities in the trades. It's a very respected career in the area. You have a skill set that you can keep for life. You can take the skills you learn in the trades and you can take them anywhere. And we need a lot of trades people in this country. There's just some great opportunities for earning and for stability in those careers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. Well, Tyler, we're proud of you, man. Congratulations. So happy for you. Excellent, excellent work, man. Baby steps. Millionaires listening to us at 20 years old goes and becomes electrician. $1.1 million net worth. $250,000 paid for home. That's 2,000 square feet, three bedrooms in.

[Ken Coleman]

The Houston, Texas area and 625,000 in retirement accounts down Dave, at 32. Yeah, that's just going to turn into millions.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's going to be, you know, he's going to have 40 or 50 million dollars if he doesn't watch what he's doing. Yeah, it's that it's going to get out of control.

[Ken Coleman]

It's pretty wild.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's just bizarre at 32 freaking years old, starting out making 95 for apprenticeship and moves into $200,000 a year. So there's your answer. And you know what they didn't have? Have $350,000 in student loan debt and a parent plus loan. That's what he didn't have. And so they gave the place he went to work, gave the scholarship for him to get an associate's for free.

[Ken Coleman]

Exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's just, let's just track this a minute. Okay. And this is a different way of thinking about things. Again, we're not against higher education, but we are both very excited that the trades are exploding in America and Made in America starting to be a thing again. And that's a good thing. There's a bazillion of these things. We need to clip this call and send it to our friend Mike Rowe. He'll love this call.

[Ken Coleman]

I almost said it. We fund it to three way. Call Mike in here and he would be so excited. He would have been cheering Taylor on. Here's something by the way. Out of the news. In the next 15 to 20 years. Years. The federal government is predicting that they will have to hire as many as 600,000 electricians.

[Dave Ramsey]

The federal government will. Federal government to do what?

[Ken Coleman]

Government contracts, you know, like of defense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Electric chairs for the IRS agents. I mean what, what do you got?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm just telling you.

[Dave Ramsey]

600 over. Over. Oh, in contracts subcontract. Not just federal employees, federal employees to.

[Ken Coleman]

Do work on federal buildings. Federal. And I'm just, I'm just pointing pointed out that the need is that big and whether or not they're going to do that or not is not the issue. I don't want you to get lost in the massive number there, but the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Idea here is, is that get mass lost in the massive government spending is what I'm getting.

[Ken Coleman]

I know but the point is, is, and again I'm not trying to drive people to federal, federal work, but I'm saying that the need for the tradesmen and Mike's been saying this, you've been saying. I've been saying this. There is, there is going to be a massive amount of, of, of tradesmen who are retiring and the need is massive. Which means that the pay scale is going to be very, very good. And this young man, Taylor, not doing bad. Example, 200,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's doing better than most lawyers. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And no. No law school loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There's so many jokes there. So many jokes. Lawyer jokes. My father favorite. Yeah. Do you want to keep more money in your pocket and not Uncle Sam's? Then listen up. There are tax deductions and credits you could maximize before the end of the year by connecting with an experienced tax professional like a Ramsey trusted tax pro. They know the tax code inside and out so you don't have to. And they can help you file when tax season rolls around. Get a trusted tax pro by going to ramseysolutions.com taxpro ramseysolutions.com taxpro. Our scripture of the day. Proverbs 21:5. The plans of the diligent lead surely to abundance. I'm gonna say that again. The plans of the diligent. By the way, diligence is excellence in the ordinary. Over time, the plans of the diligent lead surely to abundance. But everyone who is hasty comes only to poverty. Ronald Reagan said, the greatest leader is not necessarily the one who does the greatest things. He is the one who gets the people to do the greatest things. Rudy is in Sacramento, California. Hey, Rudy, what's up?

[Caller]

In your world, life is good. And that verse is amazing. I'm going to give you an example of it for my wife and I. We recently moved to the Sacramento area to be near our children and our grandchildren. And so I took a job with a public agency, and we currently have in our retirement accounts $1,080,000. Wow. And the equity in our home. Home is about maybe 600,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Caller]

About 300,000. So we. I've been. I've been doing your principles for 25 years. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Caller]

And so now you're talking about your.

[Dave Ramsey]

Retirement accounts from before in your other job. Right. That you've.

[Caller]

All my other jobs combined. I've rolled them over in Ira. Iras. I have an S&P 500 index account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

So I max everything out. We're actually closer to 20% of our investments. Wow. Of our income. So no debt, just our mortgage. I. I take cash for cars. I even. I only buy used cars.

[Ken Coleman]

Excellent.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

56.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, man. You did good.

[Caller]

We've been working our butts off and it's. You know, your wife ought to make it. By the way, on a side note, your wife should make a recipe book on beans and rice and Rice and beans. There's some good stuff out there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Except that we never really ate it. It's just a metaphor, but.

[Caller]

Yeah, I know, I know, know. So listen, the public agency that I got a job with, they have a retirement plan I put in 3%, goes into a 457B pre tax. They match it with a 3% match that goes into a 401A with a vesting period of 10 years. I'm not going to be here in 10 years. And then it gets worse. The money goes into a variable annuity. I'm wondering if I ought to just stick to doing what I've been doing and forget their retirement plan. What do you think?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're not. You're not going to get the match because you're not going to be there.

[Caller]

I'm not going to be there.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the only thing you've got is just a 457, which is just deferred comp.

[Caller]

That's all.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's, you know, you're avoiding taxation for a short period of time is all you're doing.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, $548 a month, whatever it is, each to each of us. I'm maxing out the IRA at 23,500. And then I have a bunch of money going into the s and P500 index fund that I have. And I can't. You can't put money anywhere else.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what? That's exactly what I would do is what you're doing. I'm with you. I would avoid this thing because you've laid out. What you've laid out is excellent work on what you're already doing. And of course, the 600 that you already. You said 600 in retirement now, right?

[Caller]

No, I have a million. 80,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I missed that. I'm sorry, I got it wrong.

[Caller]

Million eighty, I have about maybe 600,000 in equity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what it was. That's what it was. Okay, so that million, you're 56, when you're 63 will be 2 million.

[Caller]

Yeah, we've been planning for 63 for 28 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Two million. And then when you're 70, it'll be 4 million. And that's if you add nothing to it all. And the house, I mean, you'll have it paid off in short order. I would be chunking it on the house and in that index fund. Now here's the comparison on the index index fund because you're at baby step seven, you've maxed out any reasonably good retirement. You're avoiding this bad retirement thing. And so that brings up a whole other discussion. You're not at baby step seven. You've got that, you've got that mortgage left. Okay, I'm going to change it. I'm going to throw it on the mortgage. All extra goes on the mortgage.

[Caller]

I called the mortgage company and I asked them, if I send them $5200 a month, when would I have my house paid off? And they said, December the 12th, 2032.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what they said. I'm throwing it on the mortgage. I want that mortgage gone. The sooner it is gone, the faster this whole thing explodes and the more it's already on a great trajectory and it's going to increase the trajectory. Now, having said that, and that's really what I would do if I were you, let's stop and explain why I said I like the index fund in your situation. Because here's the thing. If you've maxed out all retirement and we're gonna set aside the bad one as not even there. Okay? But if you're maxing out all Roth IRAs and everything that's available to you and you're throwing money at the mortgage, if you put money in an annuity, a variable annuity, not the one you're talking about, but just did that, it's gonna grow, but it's gonna be taxed at ordinary income. When you take it out, what you put in an index fund, it's almost, it's a low turnover fund. So there's almost no turn. So there's almost no taxation on it until you pull it out. And if you leave it alone one year or longer, you qualify for capital gains. So you're only going to be taxed at 15% rather than at 37%.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's what I've been. My CPA told me that too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So it's a great. You got to go to cpa. So it's a great. You know, the S and P is a great place to park money because it's a low turnover ratio fund. But I want that house paid off off. Would you say you're making household income?

[Caller]

I'm at 120. My wife's at 60, so. 180.

[Dave Ramsey]

180. Okay. Yeah. 5,000, 260,000 a year. Yeah.

[Caller]

We're trying to get aggressive. We're going back to the beans and rice. And rice.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't go that far back. There's no reason to go crazy. You're gone, you're not intense. You're just intentional. And I'm just saying, okay, what am I, I'm going to have a life. And then beyond that, do I put money in, in additional investments or do I put it on the house? I put it on the house. That's all I'm saying. You're at baby steps. 4, 5 and 6. That's right where you are, 4 and 6 because your kids are grown. But yeah. So well done, Rudy. Congratulations. Another millionaire we talked to that became a millionaire because of doing the stuff we teach.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And again, good, good income. Not insane income, you know, just really consistent for a long period of time. It's what the scripture led off to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

And he said I model that. And he did.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly right. Diligent prosper. Joe's in Toledo. Hey, Joe, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, what's going on, Dave? How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Great, man. How can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, man, just got a question. So my wife and I, so we're avid followers of your program. We just actually diligently paid off about 58k in debt. We sold our house. We could do that. We rent now and boy, let me tell you, that was a lot. But we could finally breathe right now. But. So my wife has a good job. She's a nurse practitioner. She knows she works 9 to 5 home with the boys. I got four part time jobs and I'm only making around 30k.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your career field? What are you trying to build a career?

[Caller]

Well, I, I'm passionate about like audio production and stuff like that, but I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don'T care what you're passionate about. I asked what you were trying build a career in.

[Caller]

I don't know yet. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I'm trying to figure that out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Part time jobs, okay?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ken? Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, when I, when I meet somebody like you, we have very limited time, so we got to cut right through here. So I want you to give me the, the heart answer, not think about, about this. What, what, what would you try if you knew you couldn't fail and, and you knew you could do something else.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you could make 100,000 a year?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Just. What, what's at the top of the heart there? What is it?

[Caller]

Oh, man.

[Ken Coleman]

Say it.

[Caller]

Songwriter.

[Ken Coleman]

That's it. Okay, now, so here's what we know. It's very, very hard to make it as a songwriter. I've got several friends that are some of the best songwriters in Nashville. They're amazing. So we Gotta then step back and. Okay, that's what we would try if we couldn't fail. But I love music. There's a theme between the audio engineering, the songwriter. Yeah, there's a theme there. Okay. So again, to Dave's point, we got to work our way to this ultimate job. But right now, four jobs equaling $30,000 a year, it's not going to cut it. So I'm going to give you my book, the proximity principle. That's my gift to you. But you've got to figure out what can I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Finding the work you're wired to do.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. We'll give you the assessment as well. But the proximity principle first is. All right, who do I know in this field, just the music field, that I can sit with and see what a clear path might look like? This is just for the long term. But in the short term, you've got to stop working four jobs and find a job, a job, maybe two, that now we're making 60. Let's make more money in the short term while we figure out what our plan is for the long term. That's the. That's the progression here. So hang on the line. Take the assessment from Find the work you're wired to do. I think it's going to help you out a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

That puts the sour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Caller]

Sam.