Quit Trying to Outearn Your Stupidity!

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Quit Trying to Outearn Your Stupidity!"

Release Date: March 20, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network (Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruze Ramsey, and Ramsey’s Daughter)

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey, alongside Rachel Cruze Ramsey and his daughter co-host, delves into practical financial advice addressing listeners' questions. The focus remains on building wealth, managing debt, and fostering healthy financial relationships. The episode is rich with real-life stories, expert opinions, and actionable steps to overcome financial challenges.

---

Discussion Topics

1. The Boomer Housing Market and Future Supply

Caller: Tim from Minneapolis
Timestamp: [01:15]

Summary:
Tim inquires about the potential impact of baby boomers aging and passing away on the housing market, questioning whether the significant ownership by boomers could lead to an increase in housing supply in the next 10 to 15 years.

Key Points:

• Dave Ramsey, a 64-year-old boomer himself, explains that the gradual passing of boomers over 20 to 30 years won't significantly alter the housing supply due to the current inventory shortages.
• Rachel Cruz adds that even if a sudden event reduced the boomer population quickly, the spread over time would mitigate noticeable changes in housing prices.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey at [02:46]: "The gradient is not 10 to 15 years. The gradient is 20 to 30 years. To which point the answer is the absorption rate won't even notice it."

---

2. Navigating Student Loan Forgiveness and Nursing School Decisions

Caller: Michelle
Timestamp: [03:22]

Summary:
Michelle seeks advice on whether to take additional loans for nursing school, relying on her employer's student loan forgiveness program, or to pay cash to avoid increasing her debt.

Key Points:

• Dave Ramsey’s Stance: "Never take out debt. Period."
• Emphasizes the unpredictability of loan forgiveness and suggests exploring tuition reimbursement options from employers.
• Highlights the nursing field's lucrative opportunities, such as travel nursing and overtime, to manage finances effectively without additional debt.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey at [03:55]: "Because you're assuming one possible track in this scenario, that everything works exactly like your little plan you just laid out. And 100% of the time things don't work like you plan."
• Michelle at [05:07]: "I'm thrilled for you."

---

3. Success Story: Paying Off $141,908 Debt in 37 Months

Guests: Steve and Nina from Danbury, Connecticut
Timestamp: [22:16]

Summary:
Steve and Nina share their journey of eliminating $141,908 in debt over a span of 37 months while managing incomes between $115,000 and $180,000. Their disciplined approach serves as an inspiration for listeners aiming to achieve financial freedom.

Key Points:

• Began with reselling and budgeting, emphasizing consistency and communication.
• Overcame challenges, including a temporary severe financial strain during Nina’s pregnancy and hospitalization of their child.
• Currently celebrating their debt-free status with plans to upgrade their vehicles.

Notable Quotes:

• Nina at [29:42]: "Definitely Budgeting."
• Steve at [29:44]: "Being consistent. And every dollar every day."

---

4. Leveraging Credit Unions Over Big Banks

Discussion Section:
Rachel Cruze and Dave Ramsey advocate for the benefits of credit unions, specifically highlighting Fairwinds Credit Union as a trustworthy partner aligned with Ramsey’s values.

Key Points:

• Credit Unions vs. Big Banks: Credit unions are nonprofit entities owned by members, which translates to better interest rates and customer-centric services.
• Fairwinds Credit Union: Praised for excellent customer service, user-friendly account setup, and extensive ATM networks.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey at [09:06]: "Credit unions, for one thing, are nonprofit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union."

---

5. Managing Unexpected Financial Windfalls

Caller: Nancy
Timestamp: [11:18]

Summary:
Nancy, a 70-year-old retiree, calls in after winning $200,000 on a game show. She’s uncertain whether to pay off her remaining mortgage of $85,000 or invest the money for future financial stability.

Key Points:

• Dave Ramsey’s Advice: Given her tight financial situation and limited nest egg, Ramsey recommends paying off the mortgage to eliminate the monthly payment, subsequently redirecting funds into mutual funds and retirement accounts.
• Emphasizes the importance of budgeting and rebuilding emergency funds after debt elimination.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey at [14:38]: "I would pay off the house."
• Nancy at [12:28]: "So, Dave, that's what I want to know."

---

6. Emotional and Relational Aspects of Financial Decisions

Guest: Lewis Howes
Timestamp: [53:59]

Summary:
Lewis Howes discusses the emotional challenges associated with financial success and how it can affect personal relationships. The conversation explores the importance of aligning financial actions with emotional well-being and spiritual values.

Key Points:

• Emotional Peace vs. Financial Success: Lewis shares his struggle with feeling emotionally secure despite financial stability.
• Relationship Dynamics: Financial decisions can strain relationships if not aligned with mutual values and open communication.
• Dave Ramsey’s Insights: Emphasizes that financial peace stems from emotional peace and healthy relational dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• Lewis Howes at [55:12]: "I'm trying to have a better, healthier relationship with the idea of money when I receive it, when I spend it, when I give it."
• Dave Ramsey at [56:22]: "Money is 80% behavior, 20% head knowledge."

---

7. Handling Co-signed Student Loans

Caller: Bob from Pennsylvania
Timestamp: [74:19]

Summary:
Bob seeks advice on whether to prioritize paying off co-signed student loans totaling $37,500 for his 32 and 26-year-old children or continue with their existing budget in baby step six.

Key Points:

• Dave Ramsey’s Recommendation: Despite being in baby step six, Ramsey advises paying off the co-signed loans to eliminate the recurring monthly burden, suggesting it as a necessary step for personal financial peace.
• Emotional Consideration: Emphasizes that resolving this debt is crucial for the well-being of the parents, even if it strains feelings towards their children.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey at [75:00]: "I need to get something, we’ve got to get moving here."
• Tim at [82:25]: "We've kind of declared war on our mortgage holder and we're down to 102."

---

Key Takeaways

1. Avoid Taking on Unnecessary Debt: Dave consistently advises against incurring new debt, emphasizing the unpredictability of loan forgiveness programs and the benefits of utilizing employer-sponsored tuition reimbursements.

2. Strategic Debt Elimination: Paying off high-interest debts, such as mortgages or student loans, can provide significant financial relief and improve long-term financial stability.

3. Utilize Credit Unions: Nonprofit credit unions like Fairwinds offer better rates and customer-focused services compared to traditional banks, aligning with Ramsey’s financial principles.

4. Emotional Intelligence in Finances: Achieving financial peace involves addressing emotional and relational aspects, ensuring that financial decisions support overall well-being and healthy relationships.

5. Clear Communication in Financial Decisions: Open and honest discussions between spouses or family members are crucial for aligning financial goals and strategies, preventing conflicts and fostering mutual support.

6. Disciplined Budgeting and Investing: Consistent budgeting and intelligent investing are pivotal in building wealth and securing a financially free future.

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Ramsey Show reinforces the importance of disciplined financial management, strategic debt elimination, and the integration of emotional well-being with financial decisions. Through real-life stories and practical advice, Dave Ramsey and his team provide listeners with robust tools to navigate their financial journeys effectively.

---

Note: All timestamps correspond to the podcast transcript provided and serve to attribute quotes accurately.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr. John Deloney are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait. Get your [e-mail] tour. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz Ramsey, personality number one, best selling author many times over, host of the Rachel Cruze show and co host of the Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Networks. And my daughter, she's my co host Today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. Tim is with us. Tim is in Minneapolis. Hi, Tim. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Tim]

Hey, how's it going, Dave? Thanks for having me, guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Tim]

Yeah, so, you know, longtime listener here, you guys talk a lot about how housing prices aren't coming down, you know, due to supply and demand. But with boomers owning, you know, almost 40% of houses in America, is that something we should expect, you know, in the next 10 to 15 years just based on life expectancy?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I'm a boomer. I'm 64. My life expectancy having made it to 64 is 90, statistically.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is it really?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, statistically, you'll be around for a while, dude. The average, I mean, if you make it to 60, you know, so the average male death in America right now is 76. Average female death is 78. But that includes infant mortality, teenage death and so on. So when you have a healthy boomer make it in. So the Gradient is not 10 to 15 years. The gradient is 20 to 30 years. Got it. To which point the answer is the absorption rate won't not even notice it. You won't even know it happened because the inventory shortage is far superior to that gradient. Okay, that makes sense.

[Tim]

Yeah, no, that, that makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Literally, I'm 64. And so over the next 30 years, the boomers will die off roughly not over the next 10 years. If they were all to die in the next five years, then your question would say, okay, there's going to be a rush of supply into the market.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he could cause prices to adjust.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what his question really had under it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right. And if there was an effect or something happened and they all went within 12 months, you know what I mean? Like, it's enough of a spread that it's gonna be so gradual if we.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get the boomer virus.

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know. That's why I'm like, I don't know. What if it could happen?

[Dave Ramsey]

It could happen. It's something that takes out all the old people, so. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, we would miss y'all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's kind of like we will miss you all.

[Rachel Cruz]

We would miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That sounded not sincere. I don't know.

[Rachel Cruz]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I love it. Michelle's in Dallas. Hey, Michelle. What's up?

[Michelle]

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Michelle]

Yes. So I have an employer that offers student loan forgiveness, and I am debating whether not when I go back to nursing school to pay it cash, to not add on to the debt that I already have, or should I go ahead and take out the loans, be better financially stable during nursing school, and then apply for the loan forgiveness after I graduate?

[Dave Ramsey]

Never take out debt.

[Michelle]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Period. Because you're assuming one possible track in this scenario, that everything works exactly like your little plan you just laid out. And 100% of the time things don't work like you plan, something different will happen. And here's the other thing. If they will give you student loan forgiveness and they won't give you education funding equivalent to that, I'm going to find a hospital that will because there's a shortage of nurses, and someone will write you that check. If that group won't, somebody else will.

[Michelle]

Like tuition reimbursement?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly.

[Michelle]

Gotcha. Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because they're already coming out of pocket for student debt. What's the difference in that and tuition reimbursement? None.

[Michelle]

Gotcha. That makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if they won't do that, talk to somebody across the street that's a different hospital or a different medical group. And they will, because I gotta tell you, I'm thrilled for you. You are picking out, probably. Assuming you love it and you're engaged, which I guess you are. One of what I think is one of the best careers in America is nursing.

[Michelle]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I've been doing this 35 years, and the entire 35 years I've sat in this chair, there's been a nursing shortage. So you could always pick and choose, get whatever you want. You could work as many hours as you want. You could work 72 straight, you could do. You can pick up travel nursing, you can do travel nursing, you can pick up ER on the weekends at triple time. I mean, you can make bank and control your life. How much you work in this field, like no other I know of. It's almost the equivalent of being Self employed. Except self employed is harder. You know, I just, I'm thrilled for you. If you love nursing, you're in the right place and don't shortchange yourself as to what somebody will pay to get you out there. You are a commodity, baby. You can, you can demand a price.

[Michelle]

Gotcha. Okay, that sounds, that's cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very fun stuff. I love that. I mean, some of the best stories we've had, you know, back during COVID the travel, nursing stuff, the people that were still working and they were paying, they were paying people. Like we had one lady, I think she got half million dollars in a year.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she paid off like $300,000 in student loan. I remember.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And in that same vein, you know that there's, there's a lot of different tracks and a lot of different career paths, companies, associations, all different things that are going that, that take this route of we will pay your student loans if you come work for us, or we'll pay your tuition if you come work for us. Right. And so that guaranteed time, though still a good idea to have someone else pay your tuition. Even if you are, you know, stuck in a sector or stuck in a, in a specific.

[Dave Ramsey]

Depends on how long you're stuck in.

[Rachel Cruz]

It, what would be your.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you're stuck in it and what's the price that you're stuck in it at? I mean.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, so if, if you're being underpaid versus the market substantially, you would have been better off to pay your own tuition and not be stuck there.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right. More than like a year or something. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, or if there's no advancement because of the thing, because you're stuck, you know, in that sense you're getting a, you're getting a good rate today, but it's not, it's not going to be a good rate three years from now because, you know, entry level on. That's got a curve to it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're going to be stuck then. So. But, or it's a five year deal, but if it's a two year deal and you're competitive salary position or competitive income position, then you ought to do it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's some great tracks out there. And then we've also heard on the flip side, be careful, be careful, there's.

[Dave Ramsey]

A hook in there.

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know, just to make sure that it is, it's a, it's a clear, obvious way and that it's for a shorter amount of time, not a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Longer you know, it's gotten a little bit quieter and we need to probably ask Ken Coleman about this because I've not checked the research and he probably has. But if you remember, during the great resignation, a whole bunch of people quit their jobs like 24 months after Covid because they realized someday they're gonna die and they wanted to live life. Right. And so this existential crisis hits America and we have the largest resignation in a 24 month period of time nationwide that we've ever seen people voluntarily quitting. And during that time, to attract people, people like target at $20 an hour were paying tuition. And I wonder if that's still going on. I haven't ke. We need to ask Coleman about that and get that back out on the air because, I mean, FedEx and Target and Walmart UPS at $20 an hour to go in there and stock shelves and they pay your tuition. That's crazy. That, that, that was a great deal. Then if it's still there, it's still a great deal. And that falls in that same bucket.

[Rachel Cruz]

Of discussion because we're seeing a lot of that, that kind of creativity from employers to attract people.

[Dave Ramsey]

So good stuff. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions, possibly? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why, why is that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, credit unions, for one thing, are nonprofit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. And that's what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, well. And I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience. And they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I'm not kidding, it took, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there, and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I, I so, so appreciate that. So, again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Please. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with [e-mail] or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. That's F A I R W I n d s.org Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nancy's in Las Vegas. Hi, Nancy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, Dave.

[Nancy]

And thank you for taking my call. And it's such a pleasure to speak with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you too. How can we help?

[Nancy]

Well, I recently won at 200,000 a little over on a game show, and I'm 70 years old. That's more money than.

[Rachel Cruz]

Can you tell us which game show are you allowed to.

[Nancy]

The game show was called Snake Oil with David Spade. It was just on for one season.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

So have you gotten hit with the game show tax yet?

[Nancy]

Yes, I have. And that was approximately 55,000. Yeah, it was California taxes, and it's pretty expensive.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's your 200 is left over after that or you have one 45 left?

[Nancy]

I have 145 left of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Nancy]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, Nancy.

[Rachel Cruz]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's awesome. So what are you going to do with your 150,000 bucks?

[Nancy]

So, Dave, that's what I want to know. I'm not sure what to do. I'm 70 years old and basically retired. We're retired, my husband and I, and I work very part time and so does my husband because we're still able to. And we fill up to it. And right now I have the money. I have actually a little over 200,000 in a money market, which is a pretty good interest rate, 5.5. So. And then we recently downsized and I owe about 85,000 still on our house. And I'm not sure if we should pay the house up. I, you know, I love to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is 200 your entire nest egg?

[Nancy]

Yes, besides the equity in our house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. But you don't have any other 401k retirement?

[Nancy]

No, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have pensions coming in?

[Nancy]

We just have Social Security and between two of us, that's about 4,500.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's it take you to live a month?

[Nancy]

Gosh, I don't actually know. That's terrible. I don't know exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you living on the Social Security or Social Security plus your income?

[Nancy]

Yes. Well, we both work part time too. I make very a little money working a part time job. If I'm lucky, I make 600amonth. It's just kind of a fun thing I do. And then my husband makes a couple thousand extra working part time besides our Social Security. And of course we're not going to be able to do that for, you know, ever seen as though we're in our 70s?

[Rachel Cruz]

How much is your mortgage a month, Nancy?

[Nancy]

It's about 756amonth.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Nancy]

It is 756amonth.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the, the answer, the answer to your question is I'm not sure what you should do, but we can talk it through together.

[Nancy]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you had 600,000, I would tell you instantaneously, write a check and pay off your house today. If you had 100,000, I would tell you not to pay off your house because you would be starved.

[Nancy]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're kind of in the middle.

[Nancy]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

It scares me that we're getting ready to use half of your money to pay off your house. But it also scares me that you go into your 80s with a mortgage.

[Nancy]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So those two things are competing here because we've only got 200,000 to work with. So, you know, I guess I would say if you do some other things and I'll give you those things, I would pay off the house. The other things are I would set up an automatic draft into a mutual fund, possibly a Roth retirement account with a smartvestor, pro to the tune. If you pay off the house, you don't have a 756 payment anymore. So I'm gonna make it at least 1000, maybe 1500 every month going into retirement.

[Nancy]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we can rebuild the 85,000 in just a couple of years doing that.

[Nancy]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because that's 1,500 is 18,000 a year plus growth. So two years would be 36, four years would be 72. So it's going to take you about three years to get your 85,000 back if you do 1,500amonth. So if you all are willing to get on a detailed budget and sit down with a smartvestor pro and open a good mutual fund and move some of that other hundred and something that's left into that mutual fund too so that it's growing, I want it growing more than 5%. Now I do want you to keep about 30,000 as your emergency fund in the high yield savings or the money market. But the other 70 or so after you pay off the house, 80 or so you should to move that as well into a mutual fund. Now let's talk that through for a second and I'll show you why I'm doing that. Okay?

[Nancy]

Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If the mutual fund, the stock market since it began has averaged, meaning some years, not some years more, right? Has averaged 11.8. If it didn't do that well and it only made 10, the money, that lump sum that you've got that you're gonna put in there will double every seven years. And so let's not counting what we're adding to it monthly, but just taking that 75,000 or so, I'm gonna call it 75 for math. At 77 it'll be 150, not counting what you add to it. At 84 it'll be 300, not counting what you add to it.

[Nancy]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's if you continue to have your lifestyle be at Social Security plus part time jobs or less or you're not tapping into this money.

[Nancy]

Okay, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you'd have 300,000 in a paid for house plus what you're adding to it. Probably close to a half million dollars when you're at in your mid-80s.

[Nancy]

Wow. Well that's, that sounds pretty good.

[Dave Ramsey]

In a paid for house, that all sounds good. But you gotta follow through cause you're.

[Rachel Cruz]

In your mid-80s too. I mean that's, I mean, I mean mid-80s.

[Nancy]

I know, I know. I mean I'm a really young, so 70, but mid-80s, that's a ways away.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I can tell you just want a game show with David Spade. That's not an old 70. Okay, that's not an old 70 right there. So you're awesome. I love you. So yeah, I would pay it off, but only if you guys agree to number one, get on a tight budget and detail out where every dollar is going. So that number two, I can put 1,500amonth away.

[Nancy]

Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And sit down with a smartvestor Pro.

[Rachel Cruz]

Go to ramseysolutions.com and if that's too much, 1500.

[Dave Ramsey]

If they can't swing it, I still would. They can swing it. She's got 6,000, $7,000 a month coming in and she doesn't know where it's all going other than it's getting spent. And so, I mean, he's making a little money, she's making a little money. And they got 4,500 Social Security. So they can swing that. I don't know how long they can swing it, but they could do it for three years. They get the money back for the 85.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's. That gives me, that gives me comfort.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because those three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Otherwise we leave them sitting there with almost no money or too, too small a nest egg and, and a paid for house. Because what we have run into over the years, folks is somebody gets to retirement and they have a paid for house and no money. They end up digging up the bushes and trying to eat them because there's no money to eat with. Right. I mean, you got some problem here. So you got to have some cash in addition to the paid for house. We want you debt free, but you gotta have some cash, some sacrifice and not eating. Some investments, not just cash, but some investments that are outside of your home.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

But having a paid for home going into retirement is, it adds, it creates a sustainability way beyond somebody has debt going into retirement.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Well, and considering the mortgage is usually the highest line item for people of what they're paying every single month and that's money. I mean, 800 bucks is pretty good. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, there's a lot of mortgages, a lot more than that. Definitely being able to pocket that every single month and being able to use that to live off of versus having to pay the mortgage, I mean that's where the math. That's where it gets crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you know what? The other thing gave me comfort and I didn't realize it till you're saying that they've already downsized.

[Rachel Cruz]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

She downsized.

[Rachel Cruz]

Say that. That's right. That's right. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so these people are already noticing where they are.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not, they're not struggling with reality.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that gives me comfort too because they're reality based people and their.

[Rachel Cruz]

Decision making is wise.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's clear. Yeah, it's real clear. And long before they got to this phone call so that, that snake oil David spade. Snake oil.

[Rachel Cruz]

200 grand. Man, I thought she was gonna say prices. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

200 grand from Snake oil. I didn't. She did. This is the Ramsay Show. If you need health insurance for yourself or your family, you might be lost in a maze of confusing terms, overwhelming options and questions about networks. Not to mention high costs and bad service from insurance companies that don't care about what you want. Common concerns like those are why I'm proud to recommend Health Trust Financial. They've been working with Ramsey for over 20 years and they're the only Ramsey trusted health insurance broker. Health Trust Financial takes an unbiased approach to finding you the best health insurance for your situation. They listen to your needs and because they work for you, not the insurance companies, their service is free with no obligations and no pressure. Here's the best part. Health Trust Financial customers typically save an average of $500 a month. Health Trust Financial is your one stop shop for unbiased advice about health insurance options to make sure you don't overpay. So get out of the maze by going to HealthTrustFinancial.com today. HealthTrustFinancial.com Rachel Cruze Ramsey personality number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co. The debt free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Steve and Nina are with us. Hey, guys. How are you? Great.

[Steve]

How about you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Where do you guys live? Danbury, Connecticut. Danbury, Connecticut. Bit of a haul to Tennessee.

[Steve]

Worth the triple?

[Nina]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a minor culture shock too.

[Steve]

We like it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. Very cool. Welcome. We're glad to have you. So how much debt did you pay off?

[Nina]

$141,908.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. How long did this take?

[Nina]

37 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. And your range of income during that time?

[Nina]

115 to approximately 180.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's a jump.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what kind of Debt was the 142. Our house.

[Rachel Cruz]

Congratulations.

[Dave Ramsey]

You leaned in on this house. These numbers. This is. You've been on rice and beans doing the house.

[Nina]

Yes.

[Steve]

Baby step two in. It just. You just kept it out.

[Dave Ramsey]

You didn't let off the gas. You just went on through.

[Nina]

Yes. The only thing is our daughter loves beans too much now, so we can't.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good nutrients, you know, for the little one. Oh, my gosh. We'll eat.

[Dave Ramsey]

We'll eat tacos and tuna fish the rest of our life. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Were y'all both on agreement for being intense? Because we usually are like, y'all both are. You're both like, we're gonna just. Who Want. Who wanted it the most, though? Like, who's the one that.

[Steve]

I think.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. I was like, okay, I like it.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good to know.

[Steve]

But towards the end, we slowed down a little bit, enjoyed life a little bit more, so.

[Rachel Cruz]

But, hey, I mean, golly, not with.

[Dave Ramsey]

This math, you didn't. No, I mean, you. You. This is pretty serious you're making. Okay, so it's, you know, $40,000 a year that you're paying off out of a 180 or 115. That's leaning in. I mean, you're serious in addition to normal living, in addition to regular payments. Yeah. Well done, you guys. How old are you two?

[Steve]

30.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what is a house like this in Danbury, Connecticut, sell for about 450 and you're 30 years old.

[Rachel Cruz]

Pretty.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. And how much in your. How much in your retirement nest egg?

[Steve]

Already around 220,000 in 401k and then, you know, around maybe 35,000 in cars and, you know, a few 10, you know, $10,000 in various other assets.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're measuring towards the net worth. He's reaching for it. He's reaching for it. You're going to be there easy by the slam dunk. By 35, though, you'll be millionaires.

[Steve]

Looking forward to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. I'm so proud of y'all.

[Nina]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done. So what in the world, you weirdos? What made you do this?

[Steve]

Well, it basically all started. I was always into reselling on ebay and, you know, various things. And my friend gave me a giant box of books, and I was looking through them, and the total money makeover happened to be in there. Your book, and looked interesting, so I decided to give it a read and the rest was history. You know, we had a little bit of debt at the time. You know, we were new couple, you know, just trying to start life. And, you know, it was just a great, you know, just way to just, you know, be free and, you know, have financial peace through all of life's challenges.

[Nina]

Yeah. So. So basically, we started out Ramsey ish, about five years ago. We started paying off our consumer debt, but then we kept a credit card and we weren't budgeting at the time. But that all changed about three years ago when I quit my job. So I was in a really toxic work environment. I had a really rough boss, and it was really impacting my health. So I was trying to look for other jobs that it just wasn't happening quick enough. And I had a panic attack and I said, you know what? We have an emergency fund. That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm gonna create an emergency.

[Rachel Cruz]

Exactly.

[Nina]

But a few weeks later, I got another job, and it was about a $30,000 pay cut. So at that point, we knew we needed to get dialed in, we needed to start budgeting. I cut up the credit card, and we were just intentional throughout that time. And then we got pregnant with our Cecilia, which we'll meet shortly, and she was in the NICU for a few weeks.

[Rachel Cruz]

She was five weeks early.

[Nina]

Yeah, she was five weeks early. But thanks to God and our family and friends and the fact that we had financial stability, we, you know, we were able to get through it. And. Yeah. And then ever since then, we, on our parental leaves, we actually both got better jobs and better paying jobs, and that's why you see that big jump. And I actually ended up going back to the company that I originally left because that manager was gone. So.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, it's, what, a full circle moment, right? Of like, the kind of person you were when you left.

[Nina]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like Health Financial, all of it. Yes. And then when you, like, walk back in, you're like, I am just a different person. That's amazing.

[Nina]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

So great.

[Nina]

Well, thanks to you guys, this is. This has been incredible. Really?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, well, you guys did it. I mean, absolutely amazing. Okay, so what was the hardest part? Because I always find it fascinating when families, like, they have babies in the middle of doing the baby steps. Right. Because it's a lot. It's a lot of life that you live in that time. But what was. What was the hardest?

[Nina]

Patience.

[Steve]

Yeah. Being patient and, you know, finding community and like minded people were hard to come by where we. We're from.

[Dave Ramsey]

A little bit.

[Nina]

A little bit.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got called crazy a lot.

[Nina]

Yeah, Yeah, a lot.

[Steve]

So we embraced it.

[Nina]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If your broke friends are making fun of your financial plan, you're right on track.

[Nina]

Yes, yes. And that's always hard, too, because you. You're like, this is amazing. You want everyone to do it, but, you know, they have to. Yeah. They have to figure it out themselves. So hopefully this will.

[Dave Ramsey]

They need to get a free book that was given to them in a box of books that you're getting ready to resale.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Golly, you got a bargain. I think the ROI on that's infinite.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's pretty incredible. Wow. Dude, this is so awesome. I'm so proud of y'all. You're gonna be so freaking wealthy. Thank you. And that's good because Steve's kind of money motivated.

[Nina]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's kind of had his eye on that. He's got the, he's got the nerd money maker thing going. Yeah, yeah. The rainmaker thing. He's. Yeah. Very good, you guys. Very cool, man. Y'all are something. So now that you don't have single debt in the world and you're making almost 200,000 a year and you're 30 years old, what are you gonna do? What's. How you gonna celebrate?

[Nina]

We need a new roof.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

We need a new car. I said how are you gonna celebrate? We need a new roof. Okay. So that's what we're, that's how. Woohoo. Get up on the roof. Yeah. All right. Party on the roof, baby. All right. And you need a new car.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you driving?

[Steve]

Well, right now Nina has a small Subaru Impreza, so we're hoping to get a bigger family car.

[Nina]

2016. He has a 2017 Silverado.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. She's driving 10 year old cars. And so it's time to upgrade mom with a little better car with the baby. And you can do that in like two months. I mean, it's not a big deal, right? You got no freaking payments.

[Nina]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank God. When you start to feel the muscle that you now have, that you've never had before in your life, it's gonna blow your mind how quick you can do stuff. It's crazy. So way to go, y'all. Way to go. How's it feel?

[Nina]

Feels good. Feels really good.

[Steve]

Weightless.

[Nina]

Yeah. I mean, it's nice to have options and just, you know, be able to take control of your life. Right. And, and do what you, you need to do what you want to do. So. Yeah. And I mean, we have only had a couple months and we had a big tax bill due.

[Steve]

Yep.

[Nina]

Yeah. We're like, all right, so we haven't felt it 100 yet, but it's coming. It's coming for sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Good for you guys. What do you tell people the secret is to getting out of debt?

[Nina]

Definitely Budgeting.

[Steve]

Yep. Being consistent. And every dollar every day, having budgeting meetings. And just don't make excuses, you know? Yeah, you can definitely do it. And you just gotta, you know, plan and, and talk to your spouse and communicate and that's kind of the key.

[Nina]

And that's really impacted our marriage too. For sure. No more money fights. We're both on the same page. And also, I think just because it's a no right now doesn't mean it's a never. I think that's been really and even with job stuff, with life, I think that really carries through.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Which is a long term mindset, which is so hard for people because they don't want the present pain.

[Nina]

Right, Exactly.

[Rachel Cruz]

Looking forward. Okay, so how old is Cecilia now?

[Nina]

She's almost two.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is she okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, did you bring her with you?

[Nina]

Yep.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is she going to help you do the scream? Yeah, she's been bring her up here. Let's introduce her. I want to see this beautiful child. Wow, that's wonderful. Very cool, you guys. This child has no idea how big a hero her mom and dad are. They've completely changed their family tree. Everybody look in the camera. If you've got YouTube going, you can see what heroes look like. This is pretty stinking cool. I'm so proud of you guys. Well done. Well done. Steve and Nina and little Cecilia. Danbury, Connecticut. Wow. 142 paid off in 37 months. Making 115 to 180 house and everything. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free. I love it.

[Rachel Cruz]

So good.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is awesome.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sweet girl. Oh my gosh. So good. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner. You can rely on Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership. Wisely, Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of homeownership [e-mail] that's churchillmortgage.com this is.

[Dave Ramsey]

A paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org Equal Housing Lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, TN 37027. If you run a business or you know somebody that does, you know the truth. The truth is it's hard, really hard. When you're self employed, you typically have a jerk for a boss. They work you to death.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's you.

[Dave Ramsey]

They work you into the ground, man. And I Know, I've been doing it my whole life and I've been coaching with 10,000 small businesses over the last several decades through entre leadership. And we figured out that there is a clear path through five stages of business and the six things that drive you through those five stages that makes up what we call the entree leadership system, which is basically the baby steps for running and growing your small business. If you know someone that's doing that. The brand new book that we have out Build a Business yous Love my brand new book. It will come out April 15, is on pre sale right now. You can get it for $29.99 and get over $350 in free bonus items. Tens of thousands of you have already bought it on pre order. Thank you for the support, thank you for the trust. And I promise you it's good. I promise it's worth reading and it's definitely worth a lot more than 29.99. Information there should make you millions of dollars. So pre order [e-mail] store or click the link in the description and you're on your way. Jackie's with us. Jackie's in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Jackie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Michelle]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Michelle]

So my question is I am going blind and I wanted to get some advice on what my husband and I can do financially to set us up for success for the day which I'm unable to work.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm so sorry. Jackie, when did you get this diagnosis?

[Michelle]

So I got the diagnosis in 2023, but I have a progressive retina disease. So I'm just. My retina cells are dying over time and from the vision is decreasing. So it's been going on for a long time. But I finally, you know, went to the eye doctor, got the diagnosis in 2023.

[Rachel Cruz]

Wow. How long are they saying until you're legally blind? Did they give you a time frame?

[Michelle]

10, 15 years? Yeah. So it's 10 to 15 years at this point. It could be more, it could be less. It just depends.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you working today?

[Michelle]

Yes, I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What do you earn today?

[Michelle]

So between myself and my husband, we bring in 130 pre tax.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much debt do you have?

[Michelle]

Not counting your home, we have 19,000 on a car and $650 on a pesky little medical debt that can go undefined.

[Dave Ramsey]

But okay, so 20 grand makes your debt free and you make 130. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you guys have any money saved?

[Michelle]

Currently about 6,000. We actually just moved into a super cheap rental. This is like a godsend for us. So we're actually able to save more now than we ever have been. So that's actually why I'm calling, because it's the perfect time for us to figure this out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. The emotion and the, I guess fear is the word that I would feel if I were in your shoes, would maybe make me reach and try to change some kind of thing and try to accelerate it and, you know, try to get into high gear or something, so to speak. Which is kind of why you're calling, I think. So I completely identify with that. If it was me, I've never been in that situation, but I can only guess how I would react. It would put me into high gear. You know, we got to get something, we got to get moving here. Absolutely, yeah. So here's some interesting numbers for you, okay. That run through my head. We did. About four years ago, Ramsey Research did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America. Okay. When the people reached millionaire status, the vast majority of them, 89% of them became millionaires. Not using inherited money. They did it themselves. Nine out of ten millionaires in America are self made millionaires. That's good information. The second piece of information is it took on average 17 years. Lots of them did it in 12. Interesting number for you. Okay. And what they did was they poured money and cleared their debts and then they started putting money aside into retirement and then they paid off their home. And so when they got to the millionaire status, they're sitting with a 6 or an $800,000, $900,000 paid for home, and they're looking at 6 or 8 or $900,000 in their 401k. And they did that in 10 to 17 years. You know, is the range. Right. So like I was saying, a lot of them did it in 12, some of them were longer than 17, but 1/3 of them had an income under 100,000. So you're ahead on that and your timeframe does that. And so if I step aside from the emotion, which is my reason for bringing it up, and I said, I'm going to work the baby steps millionaires system. That's your family's best shot at being.

[Rachel Cruz]

Prepared for this and starting kind of from scratch from the home side. They're renting still. So that's gonna be the next big.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, now I'll get rid of this car payment.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, we're getting rid of the consumer debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're getting rid of consumer debt in 20 seconds. And then we're going to build an emergency fund. Then we're going to save a down payment for a modest home and we're going to put it on a 15 year fixed rate. And then we'll start putting 15% of our income into retirement and we're going to throw everything else at the house and get it paid off. You're going to see raises and increases during that decade that that all occurs. And then when the house is paid off, you load up all your retirement and other miscellaneous investments. You may want to have some outside of retirement, some mutual funds outside of retirement because you may need access to that money if your site were to leave before 59 and a half. But honestly, working the standard system we have is the fastest way I know how to get you guys ready. And I gave you all the background as to why just now. Okay?

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Jackie, do you all have kids?

[Michelle]

We do not.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Michelle]

31.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so 15 years puts you at 45, 46. Yeah. All right.

[Michelle]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So yeah, you. Okay. There's a term. You can remember this too. It's a nuanced issue, but you'll discover it later when you meet with a smartvestor pro. I'm gonna give you three or four things to do to go do what I just told you how to do. Okay. Now. And we're gonna load you up with gifts in just a minute. All right? So it's called, the term is bridge investing. To have some money in a good mutual fund, a pile of money to fund your family's wants or needs between 45 and 59. Because you can't access your Roth IRAs and 401ks until 59. Okay? So you have some non retirement investing in your mix and that might be something that is a little different for you all than I would normally do because I'm giving you 15 years out there of sight 12 to 15 years. And then things are gonna get rowdy and we need, you know, I need a half million dollars laying over there of my million and a half laying over there that I can get to. Not cause you're gonna use it all at once, but because you might need the income off of it and you can' that if it's in a Roth until 59. Okay?

[Michelle]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bridge investing. All right, so here's the thing. We're going to send you the full enchilada, all right? We're going to give you a financial peace university. We're going to give you every dollar premium which is the budgeting app. You and your husband go through all of those lessons immediately and then tear into this budget, tear into this debt, work these baby steps, get the debt paid off, get the emergency fund saved, get, get the down payment saved for the house. Work baby steps 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Exactly like we teach, with great intensity. And you have every reason to do that. And then I'm going to send you the book Total Money Makeover. That is the baby steps on steroids. It shows you exactly how to do all this also. And I'm going to send you the book with the study of millionaires in it in the back of it. The white paper is in the back of it. It's called Baby Steps Millionaires. So I'm going to give you every bit of that. And then the second piece is I want you to go to ramseysolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro and find one in your area that has the heart of a teacher. Meet with them and tell them your story so they can help you begin to plan the investing. When you get to that stage. Hang on, we'll get you set up with every bit of that and we'll walk with you, kiddo. You're not by yourself. We're scared with you. And we're also excited about how wonderful your future is going to be. This is the Ramsey Show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch Give them a call at 800-356-4282. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that you love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best selling author many times over and of course my daughter, she's my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Josh is in Phoenix. Hey, Josh. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Josh]

Josh, thank you for having me on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep, absolutely. What's up, man?

[Josh]

Hey, not much. Got a quick question for you guys and try to be brief. Me and my wife, we just moved out to Phoenix, Arizona about a year and a half ago for my job. As we moved, she was job hunting and you know, she sees, she follows a lot of social media, some influencers and she's like, man, I can do this. So she was kind of doing that on the side, kind of fun, creative thing for her to do while she was job hunting. And a year and a half later, she's kind of blown up all over social media. I mean, we're about, she's about to hit a million subscribers, a little over on some TikToks on Instagram and we're starting to get some pretty big brand sponsorship, some ad revenue. You know, just stuff like that that's reaching out to us. People asking about doing a podcast with her. We haven't said yes to any of this. We don't know how it's really going to affect our family's life. I know you guys kind of handle this. We don't know if it's like, oh, is this something that's going to work out well for us? Do we pursue this? And it's a lot of money that some of these brands are throwing at us or people.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's a lot of money? How much?

[Josh]

Podcast people asking podcasts?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm talking about how much money. Give me a dollar figure. You're talking about shoes.

[Josh]

We've had a podcast reached.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go ahead.

[Josh]

We haven't, we haven't cashed in anything yet. We're just kind of on standby because we don't know how that's going to affect our family. If we want our family lives on social media. We're starting to have kids. But we've had podcast people reach out and say, hey, let's do an episode. 75,000. We've had AD revenue said they make a video with our product in it will give you 10 grand or 15 grand. And that's a 30 second video on tick tock.

[Dave Ramsey]

That number is real. The other one's bullcrap. Okay, Nobody's paying you 75,000 an episode for a podcast that hadn't launched.

[Josh]

That's what we don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't know.

[Josh]

Well, she don't know what people who have a podcast want her to come.

[Dave Ramsey]

On and they're gonna pay her 75,000 for being a guest.

[Josh]

That's what people are throwing at us.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's like the actual podcaster. Or some goober agent.

[Josh]

Like some goober agent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Josh]

We don't know what's really.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm calling bs.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, maybe on that, but on social, it is very common for that size of an audience to get paid.

[Dave Ramsey]

The ad revenue is very real.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why I said the first number is very real.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And even more, that could be even a conservative number. The podcast number is not. I've done five or six podcasts this week, and I hadn't been paid for one.

[Josh]

Right. So we don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

And my footprint's a little larger than you're talking about.

[Josh]

I agree. That's why we're reaching.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just saying it's just not real.

[Rachel Cruz]

I know, but there is a whole world out there, and it is wild what people will pay. So all that to say, you guys could make, I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year by her just doing this.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're asking, I hear, two questions. One is, how do we control it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Impacting our family and what do we do with the money? Is that the two questions?

[Josh]

Yes, sir. Like, how lucrative is this? Is it worth doing it? And you guys. I know you guys are all over social media, and so how has it affected your family with people knowing about your lives and trying to. You know, I don't. We just don't know, is this something we want to dive into and explore or is this going to ruin our lives type of thing?

[Rachel Cruz]

I think it's all on how you guys approach it, how you position it, and the role that it plays in your life. So I do think that they're very healthy to create boundaries where you guys want. And I would be stricter on the boundaries early on. And as you get used to something, maybe you're a little bit more flexible and you're like, yeah, that can kind of move. We feel good with that. I don't do it for a living. And I do think there's a world out there. Yeah. Where this is their. This is their world and their life and their family is their Content creation completely. And so with those people that I've talked to in that space, a lot of them do have very strict guidelines of times that they shoot, times they don't. Because I do think this mingling of the phone and social and videoing everything for content, which is the job, essentially, it. I think it does affect the family in a very negative way over time. And so for you guys just to say, yeah, we can enter into the space, but you know, from 5pm to 8pm we're not, we're not filming this stuff. Like, you know, we may do some content here or there throughout the day. I don't know. Do you know what I mean? I feel like you have to be very, very, very intentional and seeing it as a job versus it being so fluid with your life. Because people that I see do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can consume.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, it just takes over, you know, consumes everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're not, it's like a reality TV show being in your house.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's it. And you're the. And you're the camera crew. Yeah, totally, totally.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the, the other piece I would add to that is just to say you can make decisions about kids and those kinds of things. You also need to make decisions about subjects that are not going to be on the air. What parts of our life are our life and they don't go on the air. The first 10 years Rachel was married, no one ever saw Winston. He hated it. Now he's Mr. Internet. But in the last two years he's embraced it. Right, but, but John Deloney's kids faces don't show up on his. He puts cartoon fake covers over them. Rachel shows her kids. Yeah, I put mine on and so forth. But again, Rachel made a comment there. That's accurate. We're not in that business. We utilize social media, but we're not in the business of, quote, being an influencer or running a reality show over our Instagram or something. We're using it. We're utilizing the platform differently, so we're monetizing it differently, number one. Number two, we don't have to. We don't have to have quite the shoot schedule that you guys might have.

[Rachel Cruz]

Can I say this too? I would. And I don't know how you would. I don't know how you would discern this, Josh, but somewhere along lines that this can be an industry, I think, because I could feel myself get into it, that you make money so fast and pretty quick. Like, he's sure. Like, like, Yeah. I need three stories back to back and we'll pay you 15 grand. And you're like, oh my God, it can end up being golden handcuffs where you're making so much. You're making, you know, 400, 500 plus thousand dollars a year. And it is work. I'm not saying it's not, but it's like, how could we say no? If it ever got to a point where it's stressful and it's starting to ruin the family, it could be a hard no to stop because it's such, like, lucrative money. Does that make sense?

[Dave Ramsey]

You get addicted to it?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, yeah. And it's like we. Even if it's ruining us, it's such easy, it's money's right there. Like, oh my gosh, that would be so hard. So it's like there would be some hard, fast rules of stopping if you could lay out ahead of time, which I think is hard. But it can be a golden handcuff kind of thing where you end up sacrificing the family in a sense, even if it's going down because it's just a lot of money. Does that make sense? And people feel that in other jobs too.

[Dave Ramsey]

But Rachel's in a group of ladies that you would know all of their names. And they meet periodically that are friends, and some of them, that is their gig. And so she's getting the inside scoop on what they're making in that group. And I don't. I'm not in the middle of that, but I've heard the numbers and I know some of the ladies were talking about and they are making bank. So she. So her. So her advice is dead on. What I would tell you is this. The ones I see get messed up and I'm looking in from the outside are the ones who. This becomes their God. Rather than God being their God and rather than their family is first. Their relationships are first. And this is just a job. It's all it is. And so it doesn't take over. It's in the fourth rung down the ladder of importance. So we get to it when we get to it. But we're not sacrificing the child's mental health or our personal relationship. And we're not violating people, you know, but other than that, I think you try it. I think you put some boundaries on it and move forward and don't believe everything you hear and try to cash some checks. Let me tell you the guys. It's Holy week in Jerusalem and the city is restless. The people of Israel welcome Jesus as king. His Followers ready for revolution. But instead of taking the throne, Jesus turns the tables.

[Lewis Howes]

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees.

[Dave Ramsey]

How will you escape being condemned to hell? Experience Holy Week like never before. What have you done? Coming soon to theaters. The chosen Last Supper. Get your tickets now. I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships tour to a city near you. Join me and Dr. John DeLoney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever. Starting April 21, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City. Grab your [e-mail] tour before they're gone. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personalities, my co host and special guest. Special gift for you guys to get to meet one of my favorite people on the planet, Lewis Howes. And if you've been listening a long time, you've met him before because it's not your first trip on this cabbage truck. But Lewis is a New York Times best selling author, keynote speaker, former professional football player, member of the USA men's national handball team, multiple bestsellers. Has an incredible show called the School of Greatness. I've been a guest on it. Rachel's been a guest on it, everybody. And he's been a guest here many times. We're just friends in this space of helping people change their lives. Welcome, my friend. Welcome back.

[Lewis Howes]

Thank you very much. Appreciate you guys.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good to see you.

[Dave Ramsey]

The new book is Make Money Easy. So he's on the Money show to do that. Create financial freedom and live a richer life. Very, very cool.

[Lewis Howes]

Because most people try to make it hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

They do.

[Rachel Cruz]

So make it easy. Make it easy and kind of in a different way. We were on my show earlier and I love the setup because it's not about, or you can say it, but it's, you know, it's not about the investing and the, and the interest rates and the mutual funds and all of it. It's so much more. It's about the emotion, the heart, the feelings behind money which you have to get right or it'll ruin you.

[Lewis Howes]

The stuff that Dave loves talking about the most, the feelings. You know, that's what we talked about earlier.

[Rachel Cruz]

Dave's big on feelings, loves the feels.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, because you know, you guys are the money experts. I was just coming to this approach of like, I see so many people struggling with money, trying to understand it. I didn't understand it growing up, and I was afraid of it. So I was like, how do I have a better, healthier relationship with the idea of money when I receive it, when I spend it, when I give it, all these different things. It was very messy for me. I learned how to make it, but I almost felt trapped by it still. I still felt like I was living in kind of an anxiety, a stress, an emotional, like, scarcity around it, even though I had a lot of it in the bank.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what made it easy?

[Lewis Howes]

Well, getting in touch with my feelings is, as weird as that sounds, but kind of going back in the past and assessing my money story. And I grew up at a time in the 80s when my parents didn't have a lot. They got married very young. They worked very hard trying to make ends meet. Four kids. I was the youngest. And essentially, I didn't have a good belief system around money. And there was different moments and memories that I created meaning around these money stories that was like, okay, I'm not good at making it. I don't understand it. There's a lot of stress involved around money with my parents, therefore starts to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Feel like it's for someone else.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah. And it was, like, scary. And I was like, how can I receive it if I don't understand it? And as I started making it, it was out of survival to get off my sister's couch. I was living on her couch for about a year and a half when I was 23 to 25, and I just wanted to feel like I could take care of my own life. And so I started finding many mentors, started watching some of your stuff, learning from people locally in Ohio. I started making it, but I didn't feel safe with it, and I hoarded it. So I was like, what's the point of all this money if I still don't feel good, if I still feel like something's off inside of me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen.

[Lewis Howes]

And so it's really been a journey over the last, you know, decade of, okay, I've got financial peace, but I have a lack of emotional peace still. And that feels really scary.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And the tricky thing is we live in a world where they say, if you just have success in money, everything's fine.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, money.

[Rachel Cruz]

And it was the absolute opposite.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a lie.

[Lewis Howes]

Money didn't solve my. My problems.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[Lewis Howes]

It helped me have apartment to live in and buy things, but it didn't make me feel emotionally safe. And so I was like, what's the point of all this then? If I can't feel safe with the money I have. And I also feel like it's. It's triggering so much more of my. What do we want to call it? Wounds or scarcity, where I felt like people were taking advantage of me and they were hurting me. They just wanted to be around me because I was making money. So I felt unvalued even with the money I had. I was like, what's the point of all of this?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Totally getting to that.

[Lewis Howes]

So that's. That's the approach of this conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you just cycled back through each one of those things, touched them, and went, okay, I'm gonna. I'm going to own this so that it doesn't own me.

[Lewis Howes]

Exactly. Because every time someone poked my emotional wounds, I would react in bigger ways. And I think the money just made me feel even more scarce around it. So it was really going back into the money story and healing a lot of these parts of me where I felt broken and feeling more emotionally whole. So, again, I could truly have the financial peace.

[Rachel Cruz]

When I think it's such a great example, when we say money is a magnifying glass. We've been saying that for years. And that's it. Right. Where you're like, all of this was in you, in all of us. And then when you start to win with money, you are magnified, the good and the bad of us. And if you don't go back to those bad parts, which are coming out as stress, coming out as anxiety, all of that. Yeah. It's like, what am I doing? Like, I was almost better off without all this. And you know what I mean? And it's like, I. What do I do?

[Lewis Howes]

That's where I've seen a lot of people kind of sabotage the money they have because they're like, it didn't solve the problem. Let me spend it all and just go back to being broke.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Or spend it on vices to medicate or whatever.

[Lewis Howes]

Numb the emotions.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[Lewis Howes]

And they're Dave's favorite thing to talk about about his feelings here.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yes.

[Lewis Howes]

So it's really getting to a place. I'd interviewed Dave earlier, and we'd had a joke about feelings, but it's really getting. For me, it was getting to a place. I just want to feel more at peace. And having financial peace is one part of the picture, but it amplified my lack of inner peace.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that has to affect relationships, too.

[Lewis Howes]

Every.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like you said something, somebody's out to get it, or I'm being looked at as a Transaction here.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And at the first time I met you, you're now happily married.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

When I first met you many years ago. You're a single guy.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Had to affect the dating, relationships, everything.

[Lewis Howes]

Affected all my relationships. Business partnerships, friends, family. I had some stuff with family I had to deal with because now I'm the youngest and I'm making the most. And it felt. I just didn't know how to create boundaries. I didn't know how to have courageous conversations. I didn't want to upset people. I wanted everyone to like me. So let me just give them what everyone's asking, asking for. But then I feel taken advantage of now. I resent people now. Resentment. All these emotions were swirling around the center of money.

[Rachel Cruz]

How did the. The spiritual part of you kind of weave into some of this too? Because that was a big part of your story.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, for me, it was, you know, getting. I. I really appreciate every time I get to talk to. To you, Dave, because I feel like I get to ask you these questions every now and then, and I don't hear you talk about them that much. And I'm always like, I'm worried about asking a weird question to Dave around spirituality or relationships or feelings, but I get so much value out of it. So I appreciate you for sharing these things and open up when I talk to you about it. But for me, I got to a place where I was always making more money in my business, and then one year I made less. And I remember last time I had I talked to you, you were like, we made less in the last year. It was still a ton of money. But you're like, it wasn't as much as the year before. And when that happened to me, it kind of broke me psychologically. I mean, it didn't ruin my life, but I was like, I was trying to grasp, like, air because I couldn't control me not making more money this year or something. Like, some things happen shifts, and it messed with me. And I had to get to a place of really connecting more with God and faith that, like, money's gonna come and money's gonna go. Whether I get way more money this year or next year, I'm gonna be okay. If I make less, I'm gonna be okay. As long as I live in the values that you guys talk about, which is, we're here to serve. I'm going to keep showing up and giving my best. I'm going to live with generosity. And I'm also to keep reflecting on how I can improve and shift things and not just be a victim to what's happening. Make decisions, make changes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Lewis Howes]

But I'm here to serve and I think living in that state that sets.

[Dave Ramsey]

You free because you emotionally other centered rather than self centered and all that crap is self centered that you're dealing.

[Lewis Howes]

With before and I had all and I was ego driven always but it was like I need to make more and it needs to look good and what if the followers are down and.

[Rachel Cruz]

What the Ray totally.

[Lewis Howes]

And I just said screw all that. Let me serve, let me add value and good things.

[Rachel Cruz]

Which goes such against the grain too of the applause of the world. Right. And so some people are out there and they're like this may not be like what you're specifically talking about but it's like well I want the nice car to feel like I'm successful. You can plug it, you can plug in any element of this and you're fighting against the world for what the world applauses versus what's really true. Inner peace and God's applause. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Make Money Easy is the new book by our friend Lewis Howes. Recommend you pick it up immediately. You'll notice it by the little kind of dull green cover, little bright, got a battery in the back. I love the color. Excellent. Makes it jump off the shelf. Good marketing brother. Good marketing. Well done. So we say money is 80% behavior, 20% head knowledge and that really those behaviors almost flow out of the piece that you're talking about or don't flow out of the piece you're talking about. So it's not really managing the behaviors, it's managing the the emotional state to get to the behaviors.

[Lewis Howes]

And you talk about this. Our beliefs influence our behavior. So if we believe we're not worthy we're probably going to not create an experience or the working environment or operation opportunities that add more to our life. If we believe we're unworthy of love or if we believe we're worthy, then we're going to step into things naturally and behave in accordance and alignment with that belief.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lewis Howes make money easy, create financial freedom and live a richer life. Highly recommend it. Recommend this guy be sure and check out his show the School of Greatness. You'll love it. This is the Ramsey show.

[Rachel Cruz]

You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family. Now you need an easy way to make sure your important financial documents are as organized as the rest of your house. Well, good news. Knockbox, that's N O K box as in next of kin box is a complete system that helps you Be sure that you leave happy memories, not a mess when you pass away. Knockbox is a simple way to organize important paper and digital documents, IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, accounts and other personal history in one manageable place. Your family will feel your love in every detail you take care of. So start taking care of [e-mail] Ramsey a well organized legacy is a gift to your family. That's nokbox.com Ramsey Listen guys, I've heard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. The truth is you get to decide what happens with your money. And if you want to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The EveryDollar budget app makes it easy for you to plan every dollar you've got coming in and every dollar going out. Plus, it's free, so no more excuses. Go download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play today. Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by why Refi feeling stuck with defaulted private student loan payments? Why Refi can reduce your payments and help you regain control of your money? Take the first step toward getting unstuck. Go to y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Rachel Cruz]

Today's question comes from Kayla in Montana. I want a new car. My husband lives and breathes by Dave's rules and he thinks we can't afford one. We're both 35 years old and together bring home $700,000. Our only debt we have is our $600,000 mortgage on our home and a $65,000 rental home. Our net worth is close to $1 million. We have two young daughters and plan to add to our family soon. So I want to save up and buy a new mid sized SUV this year. My husband wants to purchase a used full size SUV and keep it for a minimum of seven years. Which one of us is correct? I don't understand the My husband wants to purchase a use it and keep it for a minimum of seven years. Do you get it?

[Dave Ramsey]

She wants to buy a brand new car.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, buy new. I hear, I hear.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he wants to buy a used one and keep it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, okay, I see. I see.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So the problem here, Kayla, is not the car and the problem here is not your husband following the Ramsey rules because your husband's not following them. The Ramsey rules include working with your spouse and being on the same page with Your spouse and you, Kayla, have nothing to do with anything here. You just stand back and ask for stuff and he decides if he's going to give it or not. That is not a Ramsey rule. Instead, you should be like a grown up person, not a child wanting something from her daddy and be one of the two votes on where this freaking $700,000 goes. That is what we teach. We don't teach what your husband is doing nor what you are doing. And so, so you guys got to get talking about, okay, here's the future I want and here's the steps it's going to take to get to the future.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And how do we get there?

[Dave Ramsey]

How does a car purchase fit in that future? But you sound like a 16 year old having a hissy fit because your daddy won't buy you a car. And that's just ridiculous. That's not the position you should be in as the wife.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, but she may feel on the other end of the coin, frustrated if they're making.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a serious amount of pouting in this.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, but if they make, if they make $700,000 a year, they make plenty of money. That's what I'm saying. But she doesn't, she's like, hey, can we spend 50 grand on an SUV? And he's like, nope, nope, nope, nope.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she's like, well, they're not, they're not. This is again, this is like, daddy, we got the money. No, Daddy's saying, no, we don't have the money. I follow Dave. Well, you don't follow Dave because you don't treat your wife like a 16 year old child. Your wife is a full grown woman and stuff.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so what if they.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she needs to be involved in the discussion.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so if they're both.

[Dave Ramsey]

The thing is positioned wrong.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, that's the first.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's my point.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so what if they're both adults.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they're both talking about it and.

[Rachel Cruz]

She'S like, listen, we have plenty of money, we can do this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our net worth, what we teach is. And what I lived with my wife who had a vote and I had a vote. What? You have lived with your husband who had a vote and you had a vote. Yes. Was that we don't buy a brand new vehicle because they go down in value regardless of your income until you have $1 million net worth. And you, darling, don't have a million dollar net worth. And so no, I would not buy a house. I would buy a two year old suv.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I Don't think you have to keep it seven years. I don't care how long you keep it. But you buy used cars and let someone else take the butt kicking on the depreciation. You don't spend money on things that go down in value like a rock while you're trying to get out of debt and build wealth, even if you have a $700,000 income, because they do.

[Rachel Cruz]

Have a $600,000 mortgage. Right. So I'm like, there's, like, there's something wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where the heck is all this money going?

[Rachel Cruz]

Right. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, my gosh, you ought to be able to write a check by that SUV and not even have this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Discussion and pay off the rental house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pay off the rental house and get your house paid off and live on a hundred thousand one year.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

What the flip are you people doing? I mean, there's money going out here. Like, you guys are in Congress, so. Yeah. And. And, you know, but the immaturity in this is just dripping.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's. The positioning of it is wrong. So you guys need to be like, we're both going to sit down. We're both going to say, okay, this is the principles we're going to use in our house. And based on those principles, we are going to make these decisions together. And that's not him dictating that to you or you dictating it to him. This is. We're going to decide where we're going. And if you want to follow the Ramsey rules, it would be. I don't know that Ramsey has rules. If you want to follow the processes that we teach that have caused people to build wealth, it is two grownups working together toward an agreed goal and the shortest possible distance between here and that goal. Two grownups. Now, they come at it from different angles. We can have discussions based on our different personality styles or different histories. We can have all kinds of discussions here. But it's never, I want a car and Dave Ramsey. My husband's a Dave Ramsey nut, and he won't buy me a car. And that's exactly the way this sounds.

[Rachel Cruz]

I think you're offended that she.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I mean, it's just.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm kidding.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's the. I'm not offended at all.

[Rachel Cruz]

I know the. But you're right. And I think the frustration comes from when we've talked to so many married couples, the positioning. Well, that. And it reveals the state of the marriage and probably how it is. And we. And you care more about their marriage in that sense. You as people need to become healthier. And these decisions coming out of that become way more peaceful and, you know, more mature.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you want me to get really tacky, I could start guessing how he makes 700 a year that causes him to be the daddy.

[Rachel Cruz]

What?

[Dave Ramsey]

I could do that and I probably would be right, but I won't. That's tacky. So I think I know what he does for a living and that he.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like a whole life guy or something.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no, no, no. He's in an industry where he's God and he's used to being in charge.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he makes a ton of money and he's used to telling people what to do all day long. And his wife is on the list of people he tells what to do. And so she's adopted the position of kid rather than wife. And that's where, assuming he makes all the 700k, I got a feeling she doesn't make hardly any of the 700k or she'd be raising up even heavier.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

If she made the 700k, we might not have got the email. So that in the way this thing's positioned and that. So this is the dynamic we're talking about. Why are we covering this and why are we making. Poking such holes in. It is because in all the millionaires we've studied, the data is very clear. 80 plus percent of them have a solid marriage relationship where the two of them are both aligned on the goals and the process to get there. Not, you know, and have equal. The guy's not like, well, my wife won't give me any money. I work all day. But she. And she treats him like he's 15 years old. He brings a check home and gives it to mama and mama don't take care of him. And you know, we don't hear that from the millionaires or the. Or the other or the vice versa, which is this one.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. The dictator in the home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. And that we don't. This model right here of relationship does not. The data does not bode well for this model. It says you're not going to do well. I don't even care if you make 600k. You cannot out earn your stupidity. I've tried it so well.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Money is such a reflection, though. It's kind of what we're talking about with Louis in the last segment. It's a reflection so much of who you are in your character and the health of you. Right. And money either magnifies those healthy versions of you or it magnifies the unhealthy broken sides which we all have both including relationship, including the marriage. So him breaking, bringing in or them. She says we bring home together 700,000. So I don't know who brings it home, but the idea that you're making a lot of money is magnifying through a car purchase some of those dysfunctional parts of the marriage and, and, and, you know, looking at that and becoming healthier in that fixes some of this. But.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I don't want that. I guess maybe I did rise up on this. I'm thinking about it emotionally. I don't want any of you using our name or the stuff we teach is a weapon in your house. And that's what's going on here. He lives and breathes by Dave's rules and thinks we can't afford one. So he's using like, he's like bad guying off of us. Well, Dave says you can't do that. Right. Instead of actually manning up and walking through the concept and getting a agreement based on logic, instead you blame it on somebody off in the podcast land. And that's complete cowardice, you know? So, yeah, quit using my name as a weapon. Pisses me off. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

I knew that was in there.

[George Camel]

Hey, guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's insurance resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft, protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramseysolutions.com insurance ramseysolutions.com Insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bob is with us in Pennsylvania. Hey, Bob. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Tim]

Good afternoon, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Tim]

I want to preface my question by saying thank you for giving us the tools to be financially successful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Tim]

We've been drinking the Cool. Drinking the Kool Aid for six years, and life is way different today than it was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you, sir.

[Tim]

I'm glad that means thank you. That being said, I'm still paying for some of the sins of the past. We are co signed on five private student loans for two of our children to the tune of 37,500.

[Dave Ramsey]

Struggling 37,5 each or total?

[Tim]

Total.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. About passed out. Okay.

[Tim]

They are struggling financially and some months we're co signed, so we've signed up for it. We have to make some payments on these loans. We have $500 a month in our budget. We don't ever exceed that, but we use it most months. So my question is, should we. We're in baby step six, fully funded emergency fund. Do we back up the baby step two and pay these off? I don't really want to give them a free pass. Or do we continue to just use our monthly budget to make the process continue?

[Dave Ramsey]

How many kids?

[Tim]

We have three. Two of them are involved in this process. Student child number one. His loans are done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And. And what do you guys make? What's your household income?

[Tim]

150.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Yeah. I don't want to give them a free pass. But when you co signed, you did. That free pass is already out the door. I wish they had gone out and built careers based on their education. Enough to pay 37,000 bucks, which is not like the largest number.

[Rachel Cruz]

20, 15, 20, you know, each. If they were spending.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, I wish that's really. Should be very reachable. So I'm trying to think what I would do. How old are these two?

[Tim]

32 and 26. And they each have about half of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I'm hesitant to try to teach someone that old a lesson, even if it's my kid. You know what I'm saying? And so if this was a younger, a little fresher, I might say, okay, I'm gonna 22 or something. I may pay it off, but I'm gonna weave into that some kind of thing where they pay it back or something like that. But I think this is already way down the river. It feels like these kids have been out of school a long time. Right.

[Tim]

Well, the 32 year old is one semester away from finishing his doctorate, so he's really been a student for a while.

[Dave Ramsey]

In what?

[Tim]

The young in music.

[Rachel Cruz]

What's he planning on doing with it, Bob, do you know Professor?

[Tim]

He was. His goal was to be a professor, and I think he got very close to the end and decided that, I don't know that I want to do that. And he kind of just failed.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no use for a PhD in music then. I mean, the knowledge base you got could be useful in the music world. But the PhD is not necessary. It's not an entry barrier. Wow.

[Tim]

Yeah, it's a tough call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it is. I'm struggling with it a little bit. Because. And what I'm trying to have go through my head is Rachel's in her 30s. If this was me, am I going to just pay this and go, okay, it's my fault, my mistake? She ain't getting around to it by now. Probably not going to. I need to get this off my plate for my sake. And that's what's running through my head. I think you need to clear it for your sake. Even though I'm pretty aggravated at these two, I wish they had done better. I'm not really yell at them, but I'm mildly aggravated, like $37,000 worth. And so, you know, But I think for your sake, your wife's sake, this is going to haunt you and nag at you and nip at your heels and bite you every three months. You got to make a payment and all that. And you've got a good income. I would probably go back to beans and rice and just clear this, like in a year and get it out of my life and not worry about it. And then, then let the chips fall where they fall. And if the kids wake up one day and send you a check, I'd cash it. But if they don't, fine too and not gonna worry about it. The big deal is not. It's not about them, it's about you. And so I think looking at it through that lens, that tells me you pay it.

[Tim]

So would you dump the emergency fund and start over with, how much is that? Just beans and 30.

[Dave Ramsey]

30.

[Tim]

We're a little short.

[Dave Ramsey]

30. Yeah. Yes, I would. Yeah. Yeah. I just start clearing them off. And then you gotta decide what, you know, send your children an email to follow up with a phone call and go, we paid this off not for you, but because we wanted it out of our life. We feel like you're still responsible for this, but you do with that what you want or something like that. But I'm not gonna add to a burden or take away a burden from them necessarily.

[Rachel Cruz]

I was gonna say two of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

But they need to know it's paid off because they're gonna see the thing has the zero balance. So you need to talk about it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And then even the strings attached element still affects the relationship. Right. Like if you were like, I still expect you to pay me back. You know what I mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

I really wouldn't go into that level. I just go, you do what you think is right. We've paid it off. And we didn't pay it off for you, we paid it off for us. That's the True statement because you didn't, you didn't pay it off to help them. You paid it off because you were stupid and co signed and now you got to clear it. Me too. I did that too. Okay, not with student loans, but I've done it with other stuff. So not picking on you. But man, I'm sorry. That's a bit of a quandary though. It's an interesting discussion. Thanks for having it with us. I think I'm going to approach it through what's good for you and your wife and let the 30 year olds figure it out.

[Rachel Cruz]

What was your gut, Bob? You and your wife, did you guys have a strong opinion or leaning a certain way, either one of you?

[Tim]

We've kind of declared war on our mortgage holder and we're down to 102.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh man.

[Tim]

So this will put that on hold probably for about a year because we, last year we paid almost 32,000 on principal.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you guys?

[Tim]

61 and 58.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're gonna be there. You'll be there in a heartbeat. And this is going to just change because every time this bill comes, you revisit all the emotions. And if I'm you, I selfishly don't want that anymore. That's what I mean. It's like a dog biting me once a month, you know what I'm saying?

[Tim]

I absolutely know what you're saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I'm fighting for you guys and I think it's just the last thing you do to clean up. And your kids are just too old to put them in some kind of headlock and teach them a lesson is my opinion. I can't imagine. I mean my kids are similar ages and I just can't imagine doing that. I can't imagine it working is what I mean. I can imagine doing it, but I can't imagine working.

[Rachel Cruz]

Forcing us into a life lesson. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean if they're 22, you can sit them down, have a good talking to, you know, a little come to Jesus meeting, but they're not 22.

[Rachel Cruz]

And it's just, it is another example which we have. We have a textbook full of these examples of co signing never. But it's, I mean it's this. And thank God, you know, Bob, they have the money. We talked to a lot of people that co sign for a car and they can't even make the payment, nor the person that, you know, had the like. But, but again, it's the relational aggravation and strain. That debt causes on people. And it's. And it's not worth it. And I know he said they're still paying for it. It's kind of like almost the stupid tax idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

Help. By the way, Junior went on and worked on his PhD while he didn't pay the loan.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Even pay him for that. So. Oh, my gosh. So pretty inconsiderate. A mom and dad when your job was to clear the loan.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You making your payments on time. You're 33 freaking years old.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

While you're working on a PhD, that marketplace value. If you're not going to be a professor, is not probably one worth what you paid for it, so. Wow. Unbelievable.

[Rachel Cruz]

Thanks for the call, Bob.

[Dave Ramsey]

Professor. It'll come back, but. Oh, man. I'm sorry. But thanks for having the discussion with us. I think you guys are fine. You're still going to be multimillionaires. You're still going to get your house paid off, and you won't have the next three years of aggravation. And that's good. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the app Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.