Rock Bottom Can Be Solid Ground to Rebuild On

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Rock Bottom Can Be Solid Ground to Rebuild On"

Release Date: June 19, 2025

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Introduction

In this empowering episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey, alongside co-host Rachel Cruz and financial expert Dr. John Deloney, delves into the theme "Rock Bottom Can Be Solid Ground to Rebuild On." The episode underscores the belief that regardless of past financial missteps, individuals can regain control, rebuild wealth, and foster strong relationships. Through real-life listener calls, the team provides actionable advice, illustrating how hitting financial lows can serve as a foundation for a stable and prosperous future.

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Listener Call Summaries

1. Rachel Cruz from Louisville, Kentucky – Financial PTSD and Retirement Concerns

   • Timestamp [00:55]

   Rachel shares her struggle with financial PTSD stemming from past credit card debt. While she and her husband have no current credit card debt, own their homes, and have no car payments, her husband's recent side business venture has depleted their savings. Despite the side job bringing in approximately $150,000, they have used about $140,000 of their savings without generating significant returns.

   • Notable Quote:

     • Rachel Cruz: "We just want to be able to, in the future, be like you guys... not living this fear and, you know, being scared all the time." [05:24]

   • Advice:

     • Dave emphasizes the importance of not further investing in business equipment until their initial investment is recouped.
     • Dr. John highlights the value of facing financial challenges together as a couple, fostering unity and resilience.
     • The team recommends reestablishing a solid savings foundation before making additional business investments.

2. Mike from Atlanta, Georgia – Tax Debt and Bankruptcy Considerations

   • Timestamp [10:12]

   Mike seeks guidance on whether to file for bankruptcy due to accumulating $70,000 in debt, including car repossessions and credit card balances. With a household income of approximately $70,000 and plans for potential income increases, Dave reassures him that bankruptcy isn't a mathematical necessity. Instead, he advises negotiating settlements with creditors and prioritizing debt repayment through strategic budgeting.

   • Notable Quote:

     • Dave Ramsey: "You do your due. ... I think he is falling into the shinier thing." [05:13]

   • Advice:

     • Utilize the debt snowball method tailored to prioritize settling smaller, manageable debts first.
     • Address the car transmission issue promptly to prevent further financial strain.
     • Focus on building an emergency fund while strategically paying down debts.

3. Jan from Portland, Oregon – Considering Solar Panels

   • Timestamp [21:41]

   Jan contemplates investing in solar panels to mitigate rising utility costs. With the local utility company increasing rates by 18% and projecting future hikes, she weighs the benefits against the investment's seven-year break-even period. Dave advises against financing solar panels due to potential liens and recommends purchasing them outright if feasible, emphasizing the importance of short-term financial stability over long-term technological gains.

   • Notable Quote:

     • Dave Ramsey: "That's too long." [22:28]

   • Advice:

     • Avoid financing solar panel installations to prevent additional financial liabilities.
     • If proceeding, ensure the investment breaks even within three to five years and is paid for in cash.
     • Reevaluate the necessity of solar panels versus other energy-saving measures.

4. Mary from Tallahassee, Florida – IRS Tax Lien on Divorced Property

   • Timestamp [96:15]

   Mary discusses discovering a federal tax lien on a home sold during her divorce, where neither she nor her ex-husband had the funds cleared to the IRS before the sale. Concerned about the implications, she seeks advice on whether to buy out her ex-husband's share or sell the house to mitigate the lien.

   • Notable Quote:

     • Dave Ramsey: "I think this is a mess." [100:33]

   • Advice:

     • Consult a tax professional to explore the innocent spouse provision, potentially absolving her of responsibility for her ex-husband's tax debts.
     • If pursuing divorce, consider selling the house to satisfy the lien and protect personal assets.
     • Ensure future financial decisions involve clear communication and legal safeguards to prevent similar issues.

5. Joseph from Columbia, South Carolina – Deciding to Sell a Paid-Off Truck

   • Timestamp [122:16]

   At 22, Joseph owns a $20,000 paid-off truck but faces $6,200 in tax and credit card debt. While considering selling the truck to alleviate financial stress, he seeks guidance on whether this is a prudent decision.

   • Notable Quote:

     • Dave Ramsey: "For $6,000, I would not sell a $20,000 truck that I like." [123:55]

   • Advice:

     • Prioritize debt repayment without sacrificing valuable assets.
     • Enhance income through additional work or side gigs to manage debt while retaining the truck.
     • Maintain disciplined budgeting to prevent future financial strains.

6. Haley from Upstate New York – Transitioning to a Stay-at-Home Parent Amidst Medical Challenges

   • Timestamp [107:06]

   Haley faces the impending brain surgery of her newborn daughter, necessitating one parent to stay home. With her fiancé's income of $25/hour as a welder and her own income of $20.50/hour, she contemplates becoming a stay-at-home parent but is burdened by vehicle loans totaling $38,000.

   • Notable Quote:

     • Dave Ramsey: "It's irresponsible for him and you to not be married when you have a child facing a brain surgery." [110:02]

   • Advice:

     • Address vehicle debts by selling or refinancing to reduce monthly obligations.
     • Reassess household budgeting to align expenses with current income, ensuring financial stability while managing medical responsibilities.
     • Encourage open communication and collaborative financial planning within the relationship.

7. Donovan from West Palm Beach, Florida – Rent-to-Own Program Concerns

   • Timestamp [122:53]

   Donovan is considering a state-sponsored rent-to-own program for a home, which entails renting for 15 years with payments contributing to eventual equity. Despite being in baby step two with an emergency fund of $6,000 and minimal debt, Donovan hesitates due to the long-term commitment and financial implications.

   • Notable Quote:

     • Dave Ramsey: "I would not do this under any circumstances." [118:25]

   • Advice:

     • Avoid committing to long-term rent-to-own programs without fully understanding the financial repercussions.
     • Focus on eliminating existing debts and building a robust emergency fund before considering home ownership.
     • Explore traditional mortgage options once financial readiness is achieved to ensure equity building without undue constraints.

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Key Takeaways and Insights

• Avoid Over-Leveraging: Many callers faced financial struggles due to over-investing or taking on excessive debt without ensuring sustainable returns. The importance of living within one's means and avoiding unnecessary financial risks is a recurring theme.

• Strategic Debt Repayment: Utilizing the debt snowball method and prioritizing smaller debts can lead to rapid debt elimination, fostering financial freedom and reducing stress.

• Emergency Fund Importance: Building and maintaining an emergency fund provides a safety net during unforeseen circumstances, preventing the accumulation of additional debt during crises.

• Open Communication in Relationships: Financial transparency and cooperative planning between partners are crucial in navigating financial challenges and rebuilding trust after financial setbacks.

• Prudent Investment Decisions: Careful evaluation of investment opportunities, understanding the break-even points, and avoiding high-risk ventures can safeguard financial stability and promote long-term wealth building.

• Professional Guidance: Seeking advice from financial counselors, tax professionals, and leveraging trusted resources like Ramsey’s programs can provide structured pathways to overcome financial difficulties.

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Conclusion

"Rock Bottom Can Be Solid Ground to Rebuild On" serves as a testament to the resilience and potential for financial recovery. Through heartfelt listener stories and expert advice, The Ramsey Show illustrates that regardless of how dire financial situations may seem, with disciplined budgeting, strategic debt management, and unwavering commitment, individuals can rebuild their financial lives and achieve lasting wealth and personal fulfillment.

For more insights and personalized financial guidance, visit www.ramseysolutions.com.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one best selling author of the Rachel Cruz show. Co host of Smart Money Happy Hour, two big hits on the Ramsey networks. And my daughter, she's my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Tasha's with us in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey Tasha, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

I just had a question. I do suffer from a little financial PTSD from the past and my husb both worked through that. We do not have any credit card debt. We own our own homes, we both work. We have no car payments however.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds like a good disease to me.

[Rachel Cruz]

It actually is. And that's why this next part is the problem. My husband finally has got his 25 years in. He desires to work two more years before retirement. But he has started a new side job and it has done very well. But with that, he has blown through a substantial amount of our savings and now he wants to blow into our retirement. And I don't know if I'm being selfish because of the past traumatic, of our trauma, of the credit card debt, etc. That we had, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so I'm a little bit confused. There's two competing sentences here. He's doing extremely well, but he's blown through a substantial part of our savings. Those two things don't go together. So is he doing well or is he blown through the savings? Which is it?

[Rachel Cruz]

He's doing both. He currently works a full time job.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, I heard that. But the side gig, how much savings has he used up? How much money?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, with the FEMA equipment, about 140,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

The what equipment?

[Rachel Cruz]

The FEMA equipment.

[Dave Ramsey]

FEMA.

[Rachel Cruz]

FEMA, yes. So what's he doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

What's he doing?

[Rachel Cruz]

Like in, in North Carolina, like the cleanup for the flooding disaster areas. So like North Carolina, Kentucky, those places.

[Dave Ramsey]

You could clean up flooding cheaper than140,000 in equipment. What, what did he buy?

[Rachel Cruz]

He bought excavators, backhoes, oh, pressure washer equipment, that sort of thing to kind of, I guess just to work with the damage to clear everything up.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're in Louisville?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he's in North Carolina?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, no. He just, he goes to the places that are flooded with catastrophic events and he's done that for a couple of years.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much money has he made since he's done really well?

[Rachel Cruz]

About 150, roughly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's. He's not doing really well. He's broken. He's broke even.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, with his regular job.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, honey, when you. I don't care about his regular job. When you open a business and you spend 140,000 to make 150, that's not doing well.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's breaking even kind of.

[Rachel Cruz]

That. Well, that's. That's. That's kind of the point that he and I have been going back and forth.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's approaching hobbies.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, he's off. That's. That. That, to me, is kind of how I envision it. But he's also now wanting to add to his collection of things to me, that he just admires.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not when we're not making money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, it's. It's been.

[Dave Ramsey]

Even if you've got. Even if you've got $2 million in your retirement, I would still would not do that as a. As a business owner who coaches 10,000 business owners. I tell people to add to equipment only when you're getting an. He's not getting an ROI yet. He's not getting a rate of return yet.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How old are you guys?

[Rachel Cruz]

He is 48, and I'm 43. And we both have federal jobs that are very good, but the side job is kind of where it's thrown everything off because we had, like, everything that we have paid for the. The side job is what we want to call it has came out of our savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

So here's the way I would do it if I were him, not you. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If I were him. If you used 140,000 of your savings to start a business, I would not buy more equipment until I put that 140 back in savings.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then I would pay cash for out of the business only. Any other equipment.

[Rachel Cruz]

See, that. That right there is where. Because we do have about 89,000 in savings. And then the two pieces of equipment that he's wanting would completely wipe that out.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I am a saver. I'm a.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not. No, it's not anything to do with that. It's got to do with. That's bad business practice. It's a bad way to run a business.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How long has he had this open?

[Dave Ramsey]

When you're losing a quarter of watermelon, you don't get a bigger truck.

[Rachel Cruz]

He's had this open since last June last year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So it's been a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I support you wanting to be in business, honey, and I want you to be successful in business. The definition of success in business is making money, profit. And so far, you've made $10,000 profit when you put the 140 back in savings. Whatever money you make on this side business, if you want to put it all back into equipment, that's fine, but we're not taking any more out of savings. I'm not okay with that because it's bad business practice.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's falling into the shinier thing. If I get more and more piece of equipment, I'll be able to make a profit and. No, you need to learn how to make a profit with $140,000 worth of equipment you got. When you can start making money with that, then take that money and make. Buy some more equipment.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And Tasha, I hope you're hearing this, that this is. Regardless. This is not you having a traumatic financial event, and it's causing this angst amongst you. Like, this is just kind of common sense, right? So separate the two. Even if you never had any level of these, like, moments, nightmarish stuff with money, and you always were great, this would still be stupid, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not the difference in a spender and a saver.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not. It's not a. It's not a personal thing. It's not a history thing, exact thing. It's just a stupid thing. Just don't do it.

[Rachel Cruz]

How do I explain apart from it being a stupid financial decision?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, businesses are supposed to be profitable, honey. And when the business is profitable, meaning you put the 140 back in our savings, then if that business continues to make money, we can buy equipment out of the money it makes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's called at the speed of cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. We grow this business side business at the speed that it produces cash that we.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That you're dipping into retirement at your.

[Dave Ramsey]

Age because what you're doing is you're masking over the fact that this so far is a failure.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, the. The issue that I'm having with him as far as understanding that, because I do know that that is not a smart business decision. To be pretty much like you said, just making $10,000 in a year from that is that, you know, he has worked so long, he's like, well, I have X amount in retirement. Well, we still have to be able to live after.

[Dave Ramsey]

You want some wine with that cheese?

[Rachel Cruz]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Seriously, call the ambulance. I work so hard. We all work hard.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, we. We managed to pay in three years, almost $91,000 in credit card off.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right. That's how you're supposed to do it.

[Rachel Cruz]

We.

[Dave Ramsey]

I listen, I think he has. I think he probably has a business that will work, but he needs to prove it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's a slow down.

[Dave Ramsey]

He needs to prove it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't buy enough equipment to make something successful. You have to make it successful and then buy the equipment. That's just bull crap. And people do this stuff all the time in business and they go broke and it's just. It's just not wise. Please. You know, you guys gotta keep having the fight. And it's not. And it's not because you're damaged goods with PTSD or something. That's not the. Rachel's right about that. Rachel's dead on this bad business practice. Simple. Regardless of how we got to this point, it's a bad business practice.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, y' all dads do a lot, but they might not think about what happens once they're gone. So dads, listen up. When something happens, your loved ones don't want to be guessing passwords or searching through the garage to find your important stuff. That's why you need Knockbox. That's n. Okay. As in next of kin box. Knockbox is a physical system that helps you simplify and organize all your important documents like your will, account info, passwords, and medical records in one safe place. You guys, one of the most loving and wise things a dad can do is leave behind a plan, not a puzzle. So go to knockbox.com Ramsey and check it out. Knockbox.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mike's in Atlanta. Hey, Mike. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, thank you guys for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I'm gonna be straightforward to my question. Me and my wife, you have a $70,000 in debt and I'm not so sure if we should file bankruptcy or not.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many thousand dollars in debt?

[Rachel Cruz]

All right. 70,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, 70. Okay. On what?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. So the breakdown is 50K on a car, repo 10K credit card, five on medical and five in another car will.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, Are you. What do you guys make? What's your household income?

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, so my household income is 70k, 72k yearly and take home pay 6k a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your wife work?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, me and my wife work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What do you do?

[Rachel Cruz]

We both bankers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your bankers?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Because you're not making. You're not making much money.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, we're not at all. We're not making much money at all. So we're looking in the next few Months. Get a promotion so we can bump it up for at least 80k each.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, each.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So 160.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, in a few months from now. But we're not so sure yet, so it might take a right around like about a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm. Okay. Well, the good news is that I just.

[Rachel Cruz]

On top of all that, we do have to replace a transmission on the car that we have right now, and it's worth $4,000 that they're charging us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, you're scared and you're overwhelmed and you're behind on bills, but you're not bankrupt mathematically. Okay. Because you can settle. Number one, you're not paying anything on the car repo today.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, we're not. So as a matter of fact, all these debt, it's because I recently got married with my wife and she carried all these debt into our marriage. But I knew from the beginning, so I'm just trying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so these are all old debts?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, they're all by fault on her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, they're all behind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, old debts can be settled for pennies on the dollar.

[Rachel Cruz]

Mm. That's what I heard from you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so. And a car repo of 50,000 probably means that's not the actual deficit. That probably means that was the total loan on the car.

[Rachel Cruz]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so then they sold the car for something and the difference is what you technically owe, not the total.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you can settle that for somewhere around a quarter on the dollar. Okay, so let's pretend that they sold that car for 20,000 bucks.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

@ the repo lot, because it probably was a 30 or $35,000 car. Does that sound right? Yes, I'm guessing, but I'm just. I'm probably not that far off. So they sold it for 20,000. She owed 50, so now she owes 30.

[Rachel Cruz]

Uh huh.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't owe anything because you didn't sign for this car.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I did not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's where the fun comes in. This is where it gets cute. So you're gonna make the phone call when you're ready, but not now, and say, what's the deficit? And they're gonna say 30,000. And you're gonna start laughing when they say that and say, well, you know, all you've got is my wife and she makes $25,000 a year. You're not gonna get paid. Dude, I'm in the banking business and you're not gonna get your money. So I tell I will put some money towards this because I've married her and you know I'll give you guys 6,000 bucks. So offer them. Offer them 15 cents on the dollar and plan to settle around 25 cents on the dollar.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

But you got to have that money scraped together from living on nothing and piling up cash. And that's your big one, by the way. That's the big one. So what we're going to do is do a debt snowball, but do a different kind. Normally the debt snowball is you pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. And attack the little one in that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay? Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

But these are all bad debts, so we're not paying on them now. So we're not gonna do that. Instead, we're gonna list them smallest to largest, and we're gonna settle the smallest one first or just pay it. One of the two. If you got a little $200 medical bill, don't screw around with it. Just pay it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's five grand. And the cars. Are you. Are you guys current on the car? Mike, the $5,000?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Would you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. You need to get that paid off. Yeah, yeah. Get that paid off and then start clearing those medical bills. Then clear the credit card and then call the repo people. Okay, but the repo people aren't gonna do anything. They're the slowest on the planet, the dumbest on the planet. So they're not even aggressive. They're just, you know, the credit card people are aggressive. They'll. They'll at least call you names and your mother names and other stuff. But the repo people are. They're just like a slug. So unless it's one of those tote the note lots, and then they're super aggressive. But that's probably not what this is. So anyway, yeah, that's. You settle it for. So here's the thing. So if we settle the car for seven or grand, we sell the credit cards for five grand. We pay the others, it's 20 grand and you're out of debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, And I do have to replace it. Transmission of the car. Now.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fine. Go ahead and take care of them. Go and get the car fix. Yeah. And shop around. That's not a dealer quote, is it?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

A good local mechanic, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. I got like a quote from, like, two mechanics.

[Dave Ramsey]

What kind of car is that?

[Rachel Cruz]

It was a Ford fusion. Has a 200,000 miles on it. I don't even know if it's worth it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It might not be, but. So I don't. Don't put a new transmission and put a Rebuilt in it. They're half. They're half the price.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or buy. Or have them buy one from the salvage yard out of an wrecked Ford Fusion and put the used one in that's not even rebuilt, and that's even cheaper. You might get that. You might get that for five to 500,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Mike, do you have any cash?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, we do. Like, I would say, probably 3K. 4K.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I think you can get this transmission fixed for less than that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Get a used one from a salvage yard, get your local mechanic to put it in, because this car isn't worth spending much on.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And let's get it up and running. And then you guys roll up your sleeves and take side gigs and push, push, push for these. These promotions. And then you just gotta plow through about 20 grand of this. And with a system, and you take care of food, shelter, clothing, transportation. Get on a budget. And the two of you are living on a budget. You're not going out to eat. You're not going on vacation. You're broke and almost bankrupt. We're not talking about those things. So we're cleaning up this mess. Okay? You can do this.

[Rachel Cruz]

I just want to be able to, in the future, be like you guys. I've been watching Rachel, you, Dave and everything. It's just like down the road, like, maybe 10 years from now, not living this fear and, you know, being scared all the time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You'll get there faster than 10 years, Mike.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's 10 months, you guys.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How long. How long have you guys been married?

[Rachel Cruz]

A few months, probably. No, like four months. Four to five.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Yeah. So you're newlyweds. You're figuring this out.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she comes. She comes in the house and opens up a suitcase full of bricks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Carrying the bricks around. They're dating. It wasn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, he knew they were there. He wasn't surprised. She told him they were there. Yeah, but they're heavy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They are heavy, and they're still heavy.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's worth it. She's worth it. Help her clean it up. That's fine. She told the truth. You knew what you were getting into. You signed up. This is your dowry. Get after it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, And, Mike, I think this is too. You know, we find with couples in general, but I think especially newlyweds, like this first season of marriage, this is a huge mountain for you guys to climb together. And what this will do from a. From being unified going forward. Like, you guys are doing one of the scariest things. When you called and asked if you guys were Going to file for bankruptcy. Like, that's how at the bottom you feel. And you guys climbing out of this together is going to sustain something really beautiful. I mean, seriously, there's. There's so much about. About suffering. And when you do that together and you kind of hit that bottom, what is planted out of that and the character qualities and what you guys will go through, it's just. It is amazing. So, honestly, it's. If there's a flip side of it, you can see this as a gift, if you choose to look at it that way, and you guys go on this journey together, because I think it's going to be fantastic.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, you knew all this was there. You married her, and you said, this is what I want to do. You're a stud, man. You got a big backbone. You can do this. You signed up for it on purpose, and that tells me you got the stuff right there. That's not a guy. That's a wuss. Would have run.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And your incomes. I know you mentioned the raises.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got to get them up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, both of you guys making 70 together, I'm like, as bank. You guys can do better. You can do better. So, yeah, push through. And if not, then it's going to be side hustles at night, but that'll be worth it, you know, is to get out of this as quickly as possible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, hang on. Christian's going to pick up. We're going to get you signed up for every dollar premium and get you into Financial Peace University and make sure you get those budgets going and that you follow the exact steps on pushing through this that we just outlined. And if you do that, you can get through this. I know you.

[Rachel Cruz]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right? We all know this. The world is going bananas, and we're under huge pressure. Pressure to perform and look like we're keeping it all together. Check this out. 76% of people globally agree that mental health care can help resolve personal problems. Yet 6 out of 10 people still believe that society discourages people from asking for help. Listen to me. Real strength. I'm talking real bravery comes from opening up about what you're dealing with and then doing something about it so you can be your best for yourself and for everyone else that you care about. If you're feeling the weight of the world, please talk to someone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Anyone.

[Rachel Cruz]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Jan is in Portland, Oregon. Hey Jan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, hello there. Stay. My question is whether or not it would be a wise move to get solar panels. And the reason that we're considering it. We've been solicited heavily in the past and currently as well. But are you. Our local utility company has recently had an 18% increase and then it's projected to be like a 4% increase each.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Can you do 100% replacement of your power?

[Rachel Cruz]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. What percentage can you do?

[Rachel Cruz]

98%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you can. You can replace 98% of your power usage with solar?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what's the break even period on it?

[Rachel Cruz]

About seven years?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I wouldn't do it.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, that's too long.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, it's too long.

[Rachel Cruz]

So if we add more panels, it would be more expensive. Would that change it thing? It would up the percentage.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you can get it to where you whatever you're buying, whatever percentage it is that you're buying, if you can get it to break even and you pay cash for them and you can get to break even in three to five years, I would consider it. And the reason is solar panels are technology. I endorse solar panel companies in several cities. Okay. I don't think Portland, Oregon's one of them that I remember. But I'm not against solar. Don't misunderstand. But there's two things that the solar people do that are wrong that you should not do. One is they want you to finance it and the savings is gonna pay the payment for you. Well, bull crap. Don't do that. Okay? That puts a lien on your house and now you got this stuff attached to. You can't sell your house. You're screwed up. No. Pay cash for it or don't do it, number one. Number two, solar panels have been. How old are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

70?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm 64. So this has been a subject that's been around for 40 years. Agreed.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And guess what? During that 40 years, the efficiency and effectiveness of the Technology on the solar panels has gone way up. The solar panels of today versus the solar panels of even five years ago are like a five year old computer or a five year old cell phone.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

So seven years from now, your solar panels are going to be a flip phone.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The technology is going to be completely outdated and performing at 10 or 20% of what the new ones are. I'm making that number up. But the technology, all technology and everything is advancing. Solar panels are technology. They're advancing and they're an alternative energy source. So everybody's trying to help them advance. Everybody's doing their R and D because there's tax credits everywhere. Everybody. The government will give you, you know, the state will give you money back, the federal government will give you money back, all this stuff. Everybody's trying to push this out there. And so there's all kinds of money flying around this to make them better. So they're going to get better than they are today, and they are today better than they were yesterday. So don't buy a computer that goes, I break even on the computer in seven years by a computer you break even on in three years. Don't buy a cell phone that you don't plan to throw away in about three years.

[Rachel Cruz]

So in the meantime, at this age, you know, we still have a pretty exorbitant utility bill.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But this doesn't solve it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you're paying enough money to break even in seven years, you're paying seven times as much as your utility bill today in order to install these stinking things.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, okay, I see your money's already.

[Dave Ramsey]

Out of your pocket times seven.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you guys have the money for it? Jan, if you wanted to, could you write a check for it?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. Okay. So, yeah, I would keep working with the different companies until they look at it. And it may be your electricity has to go up even further before it makes sense. Or solar panels got to increase in efficiency before it makes sense. But there might be a 50% percent or 68% percentage that breaks even in three to five years. I would do that in your case.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. But in the meantime, just kind of put up and shut up. This, these increases, well, there's nothing you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can do about them.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, and we're super frugal. I mean, we're not wasteful with our utility.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Which makes you super mad at these people for doing this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, kind of. Yeah. And it's kind of like one of those things. Okay, well, I'll show them. I'll just get solar panels, you know, but evidently maybe that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you know, I don't want to show them by cutting off my finger, you know. No, that's.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, no, that's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Maybe you price things around Jan. I mean honestly. And if you can get the numbers to work with a company to that five year break even.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or maybe they come down on their price because you're paying cash up front.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh well that's a good idea for. Because yeah. We have, we've gotten lots of bids and we did decide to go to. With a company that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, they're very enthusiastic in their sales.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure. Yes. And most of them want you to finance because I think that's where they make the money. But we weren't interested in. But it still sounds like we either. If it did increase the production, that still is not really a positive.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what, I don't care what the number is, as long as you get your money back in three to five years.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And Jan, with your utilities raising year after year, it may fast forward that. You know, if you look up and you guys are paying a ton for utilities more and more that increase can show back into that three to five year timeline too.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, I see.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because if they go up 18% next year, it's going to make it faster.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Faster in. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be dense.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're not.

[Rachel Cruz]

Explain that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're doing good. You did great.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, in order. Yeah. In order to get to the, to the three to five year break even. Making sure that. Yeah. You get your investments worth. That means your, if your utilities continue to raise year after year, they're more expensive. Which means if the solar panels stay at the same price then it's gonna, it's gonna offset it sooner.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. Your break even analysis changes. It's not, it's not a linear math problem. It's a math problem on a curve.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. And it changes it. Yeah, absolutely. You're right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's a good question though.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's a great question.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I'm proud of you for doing cash because that is one thing. We will get people that have solar panels to their homes and it's. And it's alone this whole thing. Yes. When they're trying to sell, which is so frustrating, then they're stuck.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go. All right. Open phones at 888. 825-5225. Cameron is in Dallas. Hey Cameron, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

I am better than I deserve, Dave. Thank You, Dave and Rachel for taking my call. Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

My wife and I, we, we've been.

[Rachel Cruz]

Dreaming about upgrading our home for something a little bigger, maybe a little more functional. And here's my question. Would it be stupid for us to tap into the Roth principle that we've contributed over several years to buy a better house in cash without the burden of another mortgage so that we can, can keep enjoying that baby step seven freedom that, that you're always talking about.

[Dave Ramsey]

The other way is not by the house.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that's true too.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's true. You've got options here. The no, I wouldn't cash out my Roth. The Roth's growing tax free. You don't have anything else on the planet doing that. No, that's true. No, I don't want to lose the power of that thing that's going to be so much stinking tax free money in a few years. And you're not 59 and a half, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, no. I'm 36.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought so. Yeah. Okay, what's your household income?

[Rachel Cruz]

71,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what's the move up going to cost?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's, I've got a paid off house that's 250 and we'd be looking to move into a 450.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you need 200k. How much do you have non Roth to put towards that?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I sell the house for 250.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm saying yeah, you need the other 200.

[Rachel Cruz]

My mother, my mother was recently widowed and she wants to move in with us. She'd be bringing 100k. And if I pulled out my principal from my Roth, that'd be another hundred.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, okay. And I'm assuming she does not have 200.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, no, no. She, she was recently foreclosed on. She, she won't be buying anything anytime soon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you could go to 350.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't tell you to do that. I wouldn't do it. And so I don't tell people to do stuff I wouldn't do. I get the time sensitive pressure now. Mom's homeless and has 100k and that's different than I want to wait three years. You wait in three years, she got a problem. And if you really, if your wife wants her to move in and you want her to move in, takes her.

[Dr. John Deloney]

100K in rents for six months to a year and you guys build up more savings, you know, I mean, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I, I, I'm not going to tell you to catch out of Roth because I personally wouldn't do it. I would either not move or I would find some other way to skin the cat. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, I have, George. Sketchy. And never trust them.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's why we recommend Deleteme. They help with that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, they do. Delete me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs.

[Dave Ramsey]

And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So much.

[Dave Ramsey]

But Delete me will delete your data, hence the name. It's gone. They'll wipe it out for you so you can sleep easy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. It's so detailed and it's beautiful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get this. So far they've reviewed 27000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20 off their annual plans. Just go to JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey that comes out to less than 9 bucks a month. Month. Super affordable.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Again, that's joins late me.com Ramsey make sure to check it out, you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Two weekends are on sale right now for the money and marriage Getaway. Rachel Cruz, right, and Dr. John DeLoney do this a couple times a year. It is a full weekend event and it is an amazing event. Three incredible days here in Nashville on the Ramsey campus to strengthen your money and your wealth, building your connection, deepen your intimacy and more. Tickets start at $7.49. A couple get tickets for the lowest price before they [e-mail] getaway or click the link in your show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. These things are selling out though. November's ch just about gone.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Yeah, these are great weekends. We actually have a couple in the lobby. They've been to three. They are money and marriage alums. It's what. It's a. It's a event that so many people repeat, we end up selling like 60% of it at the event for the next event because people always want to come back. So Dr. John DeLoney and myself and we have fun, y' all. It's a fun weekend.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys are. You guys are. It's like stand up comedy almost in there.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's that. And we get real. We get. We cut down to it. Like to the real stuff. And so it's. It's not your typical marriage conference, I'll say that much. That's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not with you, too. Samantha's in Fort Worth. Hey, Samantha.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi. How can we help?

[Rachel Cruz]

I was laid out for my job yesterday.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Samantha.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. What were you making? What were you making?

[Rachel Cruz]

70,000, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

What happened?

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're so obsessed.

[Rachel Cruz]

A massive layout. I was there 12 years. A massive layoff.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

No warning, huh?

[Rachel Cruz]

No warning.

[Dave Ramsey]

What. What severance did they offer you want to hug you? What. What severance did they offer you?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm getting about 40,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesome. What were you doing?

[Rachel Cruz]

I was a billing specialist. Cool.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dave's trying to cheer you up.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, this is the truth. Listen, hey, listen. Here's what happens, okay? Once you get through crying, and crying is normal, I don't blame you for that. It's scary. Okay? But once you get through crying, go get you a $70,000 job by Friday and this net you 40,000 bucks. You get a signing bonus, kid.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Hey, man, listen, there's. There's people all over Fort Worth, Texas, looking for help right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What industry was it in? Samantha?

[Dave Ramsey]

She was a billing specialist.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, billing, but like for. For what?

[Rachel Cruz]

Energy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

You could do billing in anything, huh? Once you know how to do it, you know how to do it, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is your. Samantha, I'm curious. Is your. Are your tears. Is it from. Are you scared? Are you hurt? What.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Where's the main emotion coming from?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm really hurt. I'm hurt. But then also too, I was in school and I was due to graduate with my business administration degree.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

In December of 2026. So now they were paying for it. So now I don't have the money to finish school.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're not done. Okay? What happens when you get a job making 90,000? You put 40 in your pocket, and the new job pays for your education.

[Rachel Cruz]

Then I'll be very happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, me too. Me too. See, this is what's going to happen, all right? So we don't have to assume that you're not going back to school. Let's assume you are continuing school. Let's assume the next place is paying for it and the next place is paying you more than you used to make. And you're going to put this 40k severance in your pocket. I think this is a net, net positive. You just hadn't found that place yet, but you hadn't started looking yet because you're still pissed off and hurt and crying. And I don't blame you. It takes a minute to get over that. That's okay. But. But you get about 48 hours of that. And then let's go find a job.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can do this. You can do this. Listen, that company does not have a soul. They're letting you go. Had nothing to do with you. You're not worth less than you were six weeks ago. You're worth more than you were six weeks ago. 40,000 more. You follow me?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey. They were paying you $70,000 and they're a horrible company. That tells me that someone else will probably pay you more because good companies don't treat people like this and piss on them.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And sometimes, Samantha, we do find that if you're in something for so long that you have no idea what else is out there. And so you may. Your new position, your new job, it may be. It's going to feel new, which change is always a little scary, right? You have to learn some new stuff here or there. Like I get that that can be uncomfortable, but it actually could be so much better. So much of a better even environment. The people, all of it. Like the whole thing could be an upgrade.

[Dave Ramsey]

What were you. Why were you getting your business, your BA degree, your business administration degree. What were you wanting to do?

[Rachel Cruz]

So my plan was just to use it to try to get into. Honestly, I wanted to get into the like accounting department.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so you want to go into accounting. Well, this is a good time. You've almost completed your business administration degree. That makes you qualified to move into the accounting department at the next place and make 80 and tell them you want to. And part of the negotiation is they need to finish. They need to pay for you to finish your degree. Most places have some kind of education supplement nowadays if they're of any size. We pay. We pay for people to go to class at Ramsey because it turns out we like smart people around here. And the ones that go to class, you know, this makes them smarter. So. Hello.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you married, Samantha?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I'm Single.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You have any money saved?

[Rachel Cruz]

I have this. Just the 6,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Your. Is that your fully funded emergency fund?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I was working on it. That's the thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. But you're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're debt free and you got 6,000, and they're sending you 40 more.

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is so. My mortgage is so awesome. You're going to look back a year from now and go, the best thing ever happened to me in my life is when those twerps fired me. I'm dead serious, girl. But you need to get your head around that idea instead of, like, the world's going to fall apart because these twerps fired me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because the world's not going to fall apart unless you deem it because you have upside potential Here. This is God saying, I wanted you to move into accounting faster than you were going to anyway, and now you got kicked out of the nest. So. Fly, little eagle. That feel good? You can do this.

[Rachel Cruz]

It does. I just needed to hear it.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you weren't scared, you wouldn't be normal. But scared is not a bad thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you're valuable out in the. In the marketplace, Samantha. What you are making and 12 years somewhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you have the experience, all of it. You're going to be fine. You're going to be fine. If you were 22 and you work somewhere for six months and you're like, all right, we got to start over. Right? That feels a little different. This is.

[Dave Ramsey]

You might be established to then, but not now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, you're established. You're good, Samantha. And this gives you so much buffer. And you've put yourself in a position where you have no payments but your mortgage. So you're good. It's not like you have a $700 car payment and credit cards and student loans and all of that, that could eat into that 40. You have buffer. You have time. You are good. You are good.

[Dave Ramsey]

The fear comes from a couple things. One is you have to reframe your mind and say, this is going to turn out good. And the fear comes from the sudden surprise and the chance that it might not turn out good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It was like rejection. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The suddenness of this is what is part of what got you. You know, you've had no time to process it. So not picking on you for being upset, but I am telling you, you got 48 hours of this crying stuff, and then it's time to get with it. Suck it up, girl. No, I'm serious. You need to go beat Samantha. You can call me. Listen I'm telling you, fly, little eagle. Fly, fly. Girl, go get you 80,000 bucks and you call me back laughing. I want to hear from you. Okay, we're gonna give you Ken Coleman's stuff. Find the work you were wired to do, take that assessment and make sure you're on track with this thing. And I'm gonna send you his book. Book paycheck to purpose. And I'm going to send you his book. Proximity principle. And I want you to go to kencolman.com and download all of those job search ideas and how to put together a resume and how to work the proximity principle and go get you a job. And I want you neck deep, eight hours a day, pounding the pavement, not just filling out applications, but running down leads and going and getting a job by Monday. Monday. Say Monday, Dave.

[Rachel Cruz]

Monday, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got this. You got this. I know you can do it. I'm not blaming you for being scared and I'm not blaming you for being mad. I would be both if I were you right now. But the faster you get the other side of this, the more of this money you get to put in your pocket.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the more this turns into a positive story rather than, you got this, a spiral. There's no reason to spiral.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Spiral, you're gonna do great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Spiral, you're gonna do great. You can do this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

When you go through a job loss or job change and lose your employer sponsored health insurance, there's no better time to try Christian Healthcare Ministries. That's right. There's another option besides COBRA to take care of your family during that time. Because if you didn't know the cost of COBRA has gone up a lot in the past few years. And CHM is an affordable, biblically based alternative to health insurance. So do your own research. CHM is a great option that's potentially a third of the price of cobra. It's a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And the support you get from CHM goes beyond helping you pay for medical bills. Members become part of a family that prays for them when they have a medical event. Try getting that with cobra. So if you're going through a job loss, life change, or just want to explore other options to save on healthcare, CHM might be perfect for you. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Month.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So find out [e-mail] budget. That's chministries.org budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality, co host of the Smart Money Happy hour. My daughter is my co host. Today Mackenzie is in Chicago. Hi, Mackenzie, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Hi. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I'm calling because I'm kind of in a unique situation. My husband and I have been married for two years. We're both college graduates. We are currently, I want to say, about $40,000 in debt. I apologize, I don't have exact numbers because of the situation we're in. My.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, Mackenzie, are you on speakerphone?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, ma' am.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, there you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Speak directly into your phone then as you're breaking up.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, no, I'm speaking right into my phone. Can you hear me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. Okay, thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Well, this morning is. I'm. I've been trying to broach this subject of our finances with my husband. Little bit of background is my husband and I are both college graduates. But not long after I graduated college, I was right over by a car and left permanently disabled. I am currently trying to find a job, but I suffer from those seizures. I need a cane. I'm 23 years old, but I need a cane to get around and it's hard. So my husband does work full time and I'm filing for disability to try and help offset the bills. But since I do not work, my husband has kind of taken full control of our finances. I'm unaware of where our money goes. And the one thing I know is we're working through maybe step two. We have our $1,000 emergency.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mackenzie, with the car accident, is there a brain injury?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so he's taken full control as a service to you because you're not as able to do this, Is that what you're saying?

[Rachel Cruz]

I have the mental capacity to understand our budget and finances.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the nature of the brain injury then?

[Rachel Cruz]

It causes seizures.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, it causes seizures. I do have several intellectual deficits, but I did graduate after I left the level to hold a job and do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry.

[Rachel Cruz]

I have some intellectual deficits, but it's not so bad that I don't know what's going on. I'm coherent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I didn't. Obviously we're having a conversation. We knew you were coherent, but I was trying to figure out the motivation of him taking full control of the finances.

[Rachel Cruz]

Julie, it's because he's the only one making money. I have a side business. I work at a farmer's market every weekend and that brings and some money, but it's not a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. So what is the way we can serve you today, hon?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I'm trying to broach the subject. During the car accident, I was helped with a lot of medical bills. I paid off a lot of them. But about six months ago, my husband stopped paying for any and all of my debts completely. He is only paying off his debts. And I'm trying to broach that conversation, but whenever I try to, it's a. Well, we don't have enough money. And I don't know, I just. I'm concerned. I. I want some advice of like, I don't understand why he's not wanting.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Are you guys okay? So you mentioned that you guys have a thousand dollars for baby step one. Is he working the debt snowball and he's paying minimum payments on everything and then focusing a lot of money on the smallest debt?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, so actually the smallest debt would be my medical bills. Right now our debts are the medical bills, student loans, a car payment.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, how much are the. How much are the medical. How much is your medical debt?

[Rachel Cruz]

The last I checked was about 3,000. Okay, that's broken up over a couple different medical bills.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And are the student loans his?

[Rachel Cruz]

They're both of ours. I have 10,000, he has 15, and.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He'S working on his 15,000 is what you're saying, with money that he's making?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. And the car payment that came. He got the car before we were married.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so I'm confused. So when you say, why are you paying yours instead of mine since we're both married, what does he say?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, it's like we don't have enough money, you know, Enough money.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just a matter of what the order is. Yeah, you don't have enough money to pay all of them. You've only got enough money to pay a few. But instead of. Why is he paying his instead of yours?

[Rachel Cruz]

That's. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he's not. There's something else going on.

[Rachel Cruz]

And.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you're do your due. An answer to that question is the. You know, there's nothing wrong with you asking that question. I'm asking that question. I. If I were in your shoes, I would want to know why is because it sounds like he's planning an exit to me.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's what it sounds like to Me too. And that's where I'm really. I'm scared because I'll be. I'll be truthful if I. I try to be as little of an expense as possible due to the nature of.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that is how. That isn't how this marriage thing works. It's for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, and that includes car accidents. So it's not. My wife needs to be a less of a burden to me to be worthy to be married to me. That's bullcrap.

[Rachel Cruz]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

But the reason I'm saying this is because the only. Besides medical bills, the only expense I have is I'm currently going through service dog school. We're trying to pay that off, and thankfully, it's not that much. We're subsidized with some grants and Stu. But if I don't get. If we don't pay this off, it's not like we're. It's not exactly the debt. It's more like a payment plan. You pay, and then you get the dog when it's paid off. If that makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Honey, I think you have a marriage problem. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think the two of you need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I can't tell what's going on. Between the traumatic brain injury, the other issues, the seizures, the other things issuing with the car wreck, and then his behavior is in the context, the information that you've got that you brought to us. We can't understand why he's doing this. I don't see a logical reason for it. There may be an explanation, but I don't know what it is. I think it's fair with what all you've been through, and even if you hadn't been through that, it's fair for you to get an answer to the question. Question?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, yeah, for sure. Especially if you guys were dealing with money one way. Sounds like this accident happened and stuff started shuffling, and then suddenly he's kind of turned the course. So that's. That's what I would want to get to the bottom of MacKenzie.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think I want to go see a marriage counselor.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if he won't go, go without him. And I think you need to get some advice that's more in depth than a couple of goobs on the radio. And so that's, you know, because I think I can't tell what's going on here for sure. I don't like the signals, I can tell you that. And I don't like I don't like the information I have, but I can't tell what's going on. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Amanda is in Phoenix. Hi, Amanda, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. I'm good, thanks. My question today is how should we, me and my husband proceed with with unknown medical expenses that are already racking up for our newborn daughter?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. What happened? What's she facing?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, well, we don't really know yet. This is our second baby. We had her in April and she's just had a good number of health issues since birth. So we're doing genetic testing, neurology, the whole nine yards. And we've been barely managing with our hsa, but that's depleted now and we were in our in the ER two times this last week, so that has wiped out our emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no, no, no, no. If you have an HOA, an HSA ER is 100% covered.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, then maybe it's FSA, the whatever, whatever money.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you have health insurance, right? Yes, Most health insurance, 100% covers emergency room.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, this was not covered.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Rachel Cruz]

I have no idea. But we paid this for the two visits and we just put it on a credit card.

[Dave Ramsey]

So why did you. You submitted your, your insurance at the front when you walked into the ER and they didn't accept it?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. No, they accepted it. We have a High deductible healthcare plan. So we haven't met our deductible for the year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But ER is usually not involved in the deductible. It's usually 100%.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, we saw the pay. We. The registration came around, and they collected our money. Money. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you need to. You need to get on the insurance side of this, and that's because you've got. It sounds like you've got an ongoing process here that there's going to. This is going to be a road to walk. Yeah. You've got a journey ahead of you. Agreed.

[Rachel Cruz]

Agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so you're probably going to burn through deductible, and you're going to become an expert on what insurance covers.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that means you're not going to be shelling out 1500 bucks over 30 minutes here. So. Because insurance is going to. Once you burn through your deductible and you hit your stop loss, 100% of it's going to be covered.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, that. That sounds good. Our deductible is 14,000, and so we have about 10,000 to hit that.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your stop loss?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm not too sure what that means.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What that means is, after you and while you're hitting your deductible, what is the. What is the copay? 80. 20.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, 80 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. The 20 coming out of your pocket will only go so far, and after that, they cover 100%. That's what stop loss is. Maximum out of pocket is what stop loss is.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you need to find out what your max out of pocket is. So right now we know you got ten grand more, that's for sure. And then you've got some more on copay beyond that. That's for sure. And I think you need to go back and revisit with your HR people and find out, or whoever's managing this health insurance why an ER stay was not covered 100%. Because they almost always are.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And, Amanda, this journey, too, I mean, it takes so much work, and it's gonna be so many phone calls talking to so many people, but it's worth it, because in the medical world and what we see so often is when insurance screws up, they usually just assume the person on the other end is going to just. Just take the bill and they just do what they can, and they're just going to live their life versus the people that actually fight it and stay on top of it, because there usually is money laying there. And again, if they screw it up, and bill, you wrong. Most people don't have the perseverance to stay with it to be calling the insurance and bugging them. So really press into that and really, really get an answer because it could save you guys a of lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

What I'm trying to help with is this. Here's the visual. You've got this. Health challenges with a tiny baby. And so that just puts your heart in a blender every day.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it feels like, number two, that there's no end to the checks I'm going to write because of my love for this little baby, that these checks are going to be a million dollars before I'm through the first one is true. The baby has health challenges. And that puts your heart in a blender. Everybody who's got babies who's ever had one sick knows how you feel, not exactly how you feel, but we've all had our breath taken away, and you get your breath taken away about every 45 minutes right now. Okay. And so. So. But that one is true. The second one, that this is going to bankrupt you and you're going to be a million dollars in debt, is not true. And so what I want to do is get you these. You have two burdens on you, both of which are overwhelming. I want to take the second one and quantify it and get it off of you. Here's what it's going to sound like. You're going to call them and deal with the ER thing, like I've told you three times already, because I'm a little pissed right now about this. Okay. Number two, not at you, but at them. Okay. Number two, you're gonna quantify what your out of pocket is on the deductible. Number three, you're gonna learn your copay after the deductible is met. Probably is 80, 20. Most of the time it is. Okay. Because you're in a high deductible HSA plan. The other thing, when you have a high deductible like this, usually you have a lower stop loss or maximum out of pocket number. I'm gonna guess, I'm guessing based on my expertise and having seen a thousand of these things, that your maximum out of pocket is probably 20 grand, including the deductible.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It might be 30, it's not a hundred.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you are not facing a mission. You're facing 20, maybe 30,000. And that's nothing compared to number one, which is dealing with the baby.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I want to relieve you of the financial stress that's Added to this so you can focus your emotional energy in the right place and your prayers in the right place, which is on the baby. But you've got to do business. Well, as Rachel said, with this insurance company, and make sure they're paying every stinking dime.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay? Definitely. I haven't even. I mean, we just got back last night from the latest AR visit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's easy to assume that this is. That the medical bills are going to be endless and they're going to be a million dollars in bankruptcy. Yeah, it's easy to assume. And they're simply not.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're simply not.

[Rachel Cruz]

Am I pausing? Baby steps now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. Everything. Everything.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're in the middle of a storm. Pause. Everything pile up. Cash.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Take care of baby. Take care of you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I. I need. I need 20 or $30,000, and they're.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Putting it on a credit card right now. Would you just have a medical bill.

[Dave Ramsey]

Though, versus have them bill you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I wouldn't do the credit card because I just think of the high interest rate and dealing with credit card companies. I'd rather just have the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have them bail you anytime they. Anytime they.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Anytime they didn't give you that option.

[Rachel Cruz]

How do you want to pay for this? Yeah, we just said how I want.

[Dave Ramsey]

To pay for it is you're going to bill me because I just gave you the insurance card.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my goodness. Okay. Wow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But it's okay. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you can't do that, get your boss in here. And if he can't do it, get his boss in here.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dave's about to fly to Phoenix.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm about to. Well, no, I'm serious, Mama bear. I'm serious, Mama bear. They're messing with your baby. Here. Go for the throat.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is bull crap. These people start treating your baby like it's a dad gum widget on the end of a conveyor belt. And this medical industry versus the medical arts is driving me nuts. So how quick can we manage you and get you out of here? Kiss my butt. Take care of this kid and send me a bill. This is crazy. I'm serious. This is the world you're getting ready to live in. You're a patient advocate now, and that means you are demanding service from a medical profession that's forgotten how to give it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I'll find my voice. I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, There you go. That's the one I'm looking for. That's the one I'm looking for. And what I'm trying to do is get the burden off of you. Of the worry of a million dollars along with the worry of we may have five years of surgeries.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So here's the thing. We've had at Ramsey on our plan. We've had kids that spent a million dollars worth of stay in Nico. And the plan paid it. And it's a standard insurance plan. It's not cuz Ramsay's some kind of angel or something. It's just a dadgum insurance policy. And they. They insurance policy wrote the check. And it's happened more than once. I got a young crew around here. We have a lot of babies. 67 born in one year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, I'm so sorry though. That's just from mom to mom. That just is so scary. Scary. So scary. But you guys have this. You really do. And you call us going to be okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You call us back, we'll fight with you. We love you. We'll help you any way we can.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Switching banks can be a hassle. And I totally get that. But when Winston and I opened up our Fairwinds account, we were shocked by how quick and easy it was. It just took a few minutes online. We didn't have to block off an entire afternoon or track down paperwork. And the next day, we got a personal call from a Fairwinds specialist just checking in. I couldn't believe it. When I answered my phone and I was talking to them, I was like, y' all are the nicest people. Now, if you're working hard to save money, get out of debt and build a future, you should have a bank that supports that, not fights it. That's why I recommend Fairwinds. They created these smart checking and savings bundles specifically for Ramsey fans. Plus, they have a great app and you have access to over 33,000 fee free ATMs and more than 5,000 shared credit union branches across the country. So you can have access and withdraw your money just like you're used to. No matter where you live, don't settle for a bank that slows down your progress. Make sure you choose one that helps build you up and helps you win with money. Visit Fairwinds.org Ramsey and open your smart bundle today. Fairwinds.org Ramsey Fairwinds.org Ramsey FairWinds is federally.

[Rachel Cruz]

Insured by the NCUA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? Why Refi works with borrowers who have defaulted private student loans. Even when other lenders won't help, they will. With a lower payment, a lower fixed rate, you can have a clear path Forward and get this cleared up. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter Y, R, E, F y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, today's question comes from Alice in Montana. My husband and I have been married for 21 years, and we had weathered financial struggles, including a past bankruptcy. I had a solid nursing career that allowed him to pursue real estate full time. And in 2021, we had a strong year. We owed $82,000 in taxes for the year, and the money was his business account. I trusted him to handle everything. But I recently discovered he never paid the irs. Instead, he used the money on business expenses in a. In a failed side venture without telling me, Our CPA tried contacting him for months and eventually filed our taxes without signatures in early 2023 to avoid penalties. My as my husband also hid IRS notices from me. I found out recently when I signed for a certificate letter stating that the IRS intends to levy our home for $150,000. I feel blindsided and betrayed. My question is, should I buy him out using a second mortgage to cover the irs or sell the home and walk away? Whew. Gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Alice, buy. Oh, she's divorcing him. I don't know why you would buy him out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Buy him out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buy him out means you're divorcing. I guess. I don't know what that means. You don't buy out somebody you're married to. Bail him out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do I bail him out? Maybe just pay for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know. You can bail out your husband.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you use a second mortgage, or do you sell the house?

[Dave Ramsey]

House.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And is that all the penalties? Eight. But $82,000. And I'm confused, but they filed. The CPA filed their taxes without signatures.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's weird. Sale legal. Okay. It's a good way for the CPA to end up in jail. Let's see. I mean, most. Almost all filings are done electronically, but the cpa, that, when ours does, it requires us to sign a document allowing him to file it electronically.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Even though I'm not technically filing the tax return. Hmm. Okay. I can't tell what's going on. This is a bunch of gobbledygook. What I can tell is that if you have an $82,000 tax bill for one year, that means you made 400 or $300,000. So if you're staying together and you're going to marriage counseling to try to regain trust and stop this ridiculous behavior of deception, if you're going to do that. Then you've got this household income you're nursing plus his 300k that he didn't pay taxes on. If he makes 300k next year, year and doesn't blow it all in a side venture and we have a game plan, we could clean this up real quick. That's, I guess, one direction. The other direction is you're getting a divorce and you're selling the house. Yeah. No, I would not bail him out. I would bail us out if we are staying together. But if we choose to, you know. No, I'm not going to leave you with a, an unreliable, unresponsive ex husband to pay off his taxes as a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

She said we owed. So I'm wondering if it's part of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hers she's nursing, they're withholding on her. We don't know what's going on here. I'm going to guess and say this is all. The whole tax bill is regarding him. And so the lien on your house is regarding him. So you need to do two things. Number one, if you're seeking a divorce, you probably are going to be selling the house. Number two, you're not responsible for the taxes. In the event you got a divorce, you would file under what's called the innocent spouse provision, which is you didn't, you were not aware of these taxes, you are not aware of the business activities that created these taxes. And so the IRS does not hold you liable even if it was married filing jointly. And so it's called the innocent spouse provision. And you would need a tax attorney or a great CPA that knows how to work that, and that removes the IRS from you. Now, if it is a lien on a house that has both of your names on it and the house is sold, they can only take the 150 out of his portion. Then if they have approved you for innocent spouse provision, and they should, it sounds like you qualify for that, so. But all of this only works, only happens if you're divorcing. If you're staying together, you can file instant spouse provision to keep them from coming after your income, which would probably be a good idea. But then the two of you have got to reestablish some footing on trust and betrayal and lies and deception and then put all of our income in one pile to clean up the mess that he made. And that would include the $150,000 lien being removed from the house. Very few times does the IRS get around. It takes them about five years to actually sell a house to force the Sale of the house. Very unusual for them to do that quickly. They'll pop a lien on there in a heartbeat. But to actually force the sale of the house to satisfy the tax lien, it takes them forever. And they're just not very competent at that part. That level of collections, they'll get there eventually if you do nothing. And by the way, they'll turn the 150 into 400 before they get there in penalties and interest.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So if you stay together, get it cleaned up as quickly as possible.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're not staying together, see a CPA about innocent spouse provision. Talk to your divorce attorney about that. And then we're selling the house and you're going to get your portion of the house clear. His portion has $150,000 lien on it. I don't know how much value there is in this house. We don't have enough information. What a mess.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sorry, Alice.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it pops into my head that Tom Stanley, who wrote the book Millionaire next door in 1992, he's passed away in a car wreck, but he was an inspiration to a lot of us in this space showing that people become millionaires starting from nothing. We followed up with that 40 years later with a, or 30 years later with the Ramsey study of millionaires. The largest study, we studied 10 times more people than he did. Mainly not because we didn't like his study, but just because we wanted. It was a PR stunt because people criticized the size of his study. So we ended up studying 10,167 millionaires and where money comes from. He wrote another book late called the Millionaire Mind where he studied billionaires and he found 39 correlating statistics or correlating life demographics and character qualities and so forth among these billionaires that he studied. And then he ranked them in order of most occurring among the study group to least occurring among the study group. The number one occurring thing among the billionaires that he studied, they were all self made meaning they started with nothing and became billionaires. Thousand million. This is way more than a million. Thousand million is a billion. Okay, number one, correlating the most occurring item value, whatever inside of this study was they had fanatical levels of integrity. There is a high correlation between fanatical levels of integrity and the ability to build wealth. That's the point of that story. That would be the other end of the spectrum from the man in this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Email, lying to his wife, getting out of trying to get out of taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And yeah, yeah, and you know, not returning the CPA's call all these kinds of things, whatever. And so, so duck and hide, Lay in the ditch, duck into the shadows. Try to move the shell. Hope the pee won't be there next time. Running a scheme, running a scam, trying to find a shortcut, trying to find a get rich quick thing. I'm making good money in real estate, but I still got a side hustle that's screwing up. I find some way to burn money that's the opposite end of the number one most occurring thing called integrity. So until he fa. The good news is integrity is a decision. He can just decide to be a man of integrity starting today. But if he doesn't, you got issues, sister. You got issues. Yeah, you're trying to drag a tired donkey across the finish line. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad glad you are here. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and wondering where your money's going, your first step is getting on a plan, a budget. Our team is hosting free budgeting trainings this month. You'll learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget using every dollar. Plus, you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q and A. That might be the most valuable part. Spots are limited. Sign up for free [e-mail] webinar Joseph is with us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi Joseph, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey Dave. Hey Rachel. How are y' all doing today? I'm doing pretty well, can't complain. Cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[Rachel Cruz]

So I wanted to get your guys opinion on bonds. I'm just starting to. I feel like I've just dipped my toe into stocks and things like that. But I, I looked into oil and gas bonds and I don't know if.

[Dave Ramsey]

That'S a good route.

[Rachel Cruz]

I have about $500 in my HSA that I want to use to invest in that I have more money to invest, but I'm just asking specifically, I guess about that and then any other advice you have on just stocks and trading in general.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I don't buy bonds. The bond market in general is almost as volatile as the stock market. It doesn't return as well. So it's pitched in the financial world as being safer than the stock market. But the actual data says it's not much safer. The volatility in the bond market comes from shifting interest rates and so I have avoided bonds. I don't own a single bond and I've got millions of dollars in the market. I don't own any single stock Because I don't like risk. I own mutual funds. A Mutual Fund is 90 to 200 different stocks. My HSA is in Mutual funds because I've never actually used it. I bought the HSA the very first year that George W. Bush put that program out, and I build it completely full every year ever since, and I've never touched it. Whatever medical we've had has been very minor and I've just paid it out of my pocket. And that basically has become a yet another retirement account that is growing tax free for medical use. And above 65, which will happen in September, I can pull it out with only paying taxes on it, no penalties, as if it were a retirement account. So I'm going to continue to fund that and I'm not even going to pull it out of 65. But anyway, so all of that to say I invest in mutual funds and I. So you. If, if I put, I don't know, 100,000 bucks into the market, 0% in single stocks, 0% in bonds, 100% in a type of growth stock mutual fund of some kind or another, and that's going to be 90 to 200 stocks in there. And so I've not bet. The volatility from single stocks comes from the lack of diversification, meaning that if you put 100,000 bucks in one company, whatever that company does causes you to take your breath away, positively or negatively. And so it's a lot more risk. But if you're instead of being in one company, you're in two. Then if one company goes crazy, the other one's sitting there, you got less risk. If you're in 200, you've way limited the risk. And the only risk you're riding is just the risk of the general stock price market as a whole then. And not simply betting the farm on one particular company based on your golfing buddy's hunch, which is how most people play single stocks. And so I don't trade stocks on a daily basis. I don't trade mutual funds on a daily basis. I have the buy and hold tortoise in the tortoise and the hare. The slow and ugly guy wins the race every time. I'm perfectly content being the slow and ugly guy because I win the race every time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And I think that's the hard message for, I want to say maybe the younger you are, the harder it is to be like, okay, this isn't exciting. You know what I mean? Like, there's all these things happening and it's like, oh, I could make A return there. Do this thing. There's like this, like, game to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And when there's not really a temptation to be a player.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. When there's not a game to it and you just kind of. Kind of just keep investing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Boring as that's it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like, there's just not that much excitement around it. Usually you're going to end up if.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'Re investing as you're doing it wrong. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It'S kind of depressing. I mean, seriously, it is a little bit like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If you're. If you're. If your broke friends are impressed with your investing, you're probably doing it wrong because it's always some broke guy that runs up to me and goes, I know this guy that put $10 million in Bitcoin. And I'm like, yeah. Yeah, I bet you do. I bet you don't too. I bet you're full of crap. You know, and seriously, this. People just come up with this stuff. They pull it out of their ear. People that aren't really doing it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And, you know, there are so many trends and so many things that kind of come and go. And so it is the longevity of what you're putting your money into as well, which means it's been around for so long that no one really talks about it because it's that boring. It's not new and exciting.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so don't you wish you bought a single family house on East Ridge Drive in Antioch, Tennessee, a suburb of Nashville in 1978. That I sold a guy when I was 18 years old. Got my real estate license. I saw one of my high school buddies a house for $42,250.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This is why we hate.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what that house is worth now?

[Dr. John Deloney]

We are so mad at y' all.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what that house is worth right now? Yeah. Don't you about it. Worry, wish. But see, that's what you want to. That's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's who you want to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

No one ever told you that this was going to be, you know, that you're going to make. Make a million dollars in 20 minutes. But in 40 years, you did make a million dollars because that's what that house is worth now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Yep. You know, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

By the way, it's an old house now. So it's a really old house.

[Rachel Cruz]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Worth a lot, though, and peak. Yeah, but I mean, that's just a cute little brick house. Nothing fancy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so for Joseph. So you're saying mutual funds, but something else that I feel like people are talking more and more about is like Vanguard index funds like more the S and P and all of that too.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's been talked about for a while. Vanguard was started by John Bogle because he discovered that some 60% of the mutual funds do not outperform the standard and poor index. And he said if I just put it in the index, I beat six out of 10 times. I'd beat the average mutual fund out there. And people that follow that, that is literally passive investing. People that follow that are, we call them bogleheads. They call themselves bogleheads. And he started Vanguard, the whole Vanguard company on that basis. And it's very successful. And I invest in the S and P sum. I park money there like when I'm piling up cash to get ready to buy and do the next real estate. When I make some money at Ramsey and I'm just putting it somewhere for a year or whatever until I get enough to do the next deal and I'll park it over there. But in my retirement accounts I can find mutual funds that outperform the S and P. And I have consistently for 30 years outperformed the S and P. And it's really not rocket science, but there's only 40% of them. So you just gotta look and go, does this thing outperform the S and P? It's right there in the dadgum prospectus. It shows up on the website. It shows up when you're sitting with your.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And that's within your HSA 401k Roth like all the, all the just standard retirement investing. So just a 15% of your income be putting in all of that. And then if you max all that out one day because you have a high income, then you know there's other things.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the shortest, it's the shortest distance to a million dollars. It's the shortest distance to wealthy. It's not bonds, it's not single stocks, it's not day trading, it's not crypto. There's no data that says it is. The only data says 401k Roth IRA loaded with good growth stock mutual funds and get your house paid off. That's what all the wealth building data says for the first one to five million dollars worth of net worth. And the people that have one to ten million dollar net worth that we studied in the millionaire study, that's what we found over and over and over again. We did not find them playing trends, we did not find them playing fads. They were not gold bugs, they were not bitcoin bugs. Bitcoin Coin Bros. They were not any of that. They were just like. They're the tortoise, the boring steady. Every month, the money comes out of my check into the 401k and I got a match.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then they call us at 50, 58, and they're like, well, we're looking to retire. How much is in the 401k? They're like 800,492. You know what I mean? Then our Roth has this, and you're like, holy crap, there you are.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they call this show every day and every weekend. They have for 30 years. So that's the end of that speech, Joseph, but thanks for letting me step up onto the old. Up onto the old apple box and just give it a yell. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225. Donovan is with us in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hi, Donovan. How are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

You? I'm doing well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey. So I really appreciate you guys taking my call. And I am calling because I am currently 22. I just turned 22, and I have a real estate business that from the time I started, you know, about three and a half years ago, was doing really well. We were bringing in lots of money, and everything was going great up until about this year, where revenue dropped off significantly.

[Dave Ramsey]

What kind of real estate business? You're a real estate broker?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, residential investment. Like fixing, flip.

[Dave Ramsey]

You fix and flip. And you're 22 years old, and your. Your revenues have been going up consistently for three and a half years.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, until this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Why did they slow down this year?

[Rachel Cruz]

So, Ryan, the market really slowed down a lot, and we were, you know, going from bringing in about a million to a million three every month, from all the deals to now bringing in, like, you know, three to 400,000 per month. And I'm struggling to keep up with, you know, paying all the expenses, like, you know, servicing the loans, paying the team, paying the subcontractors, inspectors that are doing work on the house. Thankfully, I've never missed payroll or anything like that, and I've. I've never been late on my loans. However, I. I definitely feel the struggle, and in a few more months of this, you know, the reserves are going to be completely wiped out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This is like Dave, 30 years ago. So, yeah, a little bit. What you.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's Why? I actually called you guys because I, I heard David, similar situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

You own how much real estate?

[Rachel Cruz]

So right now, I did the math Yesterday, just over 15 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's all for sale.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's not all for sale. Some properties are still under renovations, but, you know, some, some are for sale already.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, 15 million in property doesn't generate 100 million or doesn't generate a million dollars profit a month.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, but we, you know, we, we did about 80 houses last year. And that's not in like, you know, just straight revenue from selling the houses. That's just, you know, gross. What we brought in, what comes into the bank.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's not profit, that's gross.

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're just churning money. Okay, so.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 10 $12 million in total churn was what you were doing and now you're not. You now the, the rate of churn has slowed down, Is that what we're saying?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. The houses are taking much longer to sell. The budgets are, you know, getting overspent.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your baseline overhead running you a month.

[Rachel Cruz]

So as far as overhead paying, my office, staff and marketing and everything were about 50 to 60 grand a month, depending on the month. However, with paying all the subcontractors and servicing the loans I have on the Property were about 650,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, yeah. You've discovered the downside of debt in doing this. And so what you've. Yeah. Get your butt in a crack. Well, you're going to do two things to survive because you're also not as profitable as you thought you were once you started acting net. Net, net actual taxable income for all these dollars that you're spending is not, it's not been worth it because you're leveraged to your freaking eyeballs. So.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you married?

[Rachel Cruz]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. Well, I mean, there's three levers to pull to survive. One is you get your volume moving again. And no kidding, you already knew that. And two is you start dropping some prices on these properties to move them quickly to increase the velocity of the turn, because your velocity, your turn, velocity is what's killing you. And So I agree, 100 and so. And that's a function of price right now. And so you're gonna start having some. You're gonna put some stuff on sale and you're gonna pick which ones I'm, you know, which ones I've got the most margin in, then I can take them or which ones I can move that are price sensitive neighborhoods that I can move quickly and get out of and start Turning these out. And as your subcontractors are finishing, you're going to start trimming that by 30 or 40% until you're going to build your volume up more carefully next time. But you're going to get this thing down to half a volume of what it was and make it profitable and then move towards a debt free process and start doing these flips with debt free. Do a fourth as many and do them debt free and you've got a sustainable business. The business you have is not sustainable. It's going to come down around your ears before it's over. And you're just starting to see the cracks in the armor right now in the theories that you're running off of. You're doing tremendous volume. What the volume are doing is very impressive for a 22 year old. I mean this, if you're telling me the truth on these numbers and your, and your story is the truth and I don't have any reason to believe it's not, it's very impressive what you've done. But you did, you did, you did ignore the risk that you were taking with the leverage. But the amount of work you've been doing and generating is very impressive. You're turning 80 freaking houses a year. I mean that's.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, thank you, I appreciate.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you can do that instead, do 30 with zero debt, you've got a sustainable business. Move a little slower and you've got something that no matter what the economy does, it doesn't take you out, out one little bump. I mean, the Fed does an interest rate adjustment half a point up and they did not do that today or an eighth of a point up today. And you'd be in a. If that had happened today instead of them keeping it even today, you'd be in an even bigger mess than you are. You understand, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yeah, definitely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank God it's continuing to trend at least a little bit down. And as long as those rates trend down a little bit, you're going to be there. I'm surprised West Palm beach has dropped 70% in your volume. I'm really shocked that the market slowed down that far there. It's not slowed down that much. Many places not year over year where.

[Rachel Cruz]

We are, we are a bit north.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but not year over year. I mean year over year. That volume drop is 70% drop year over year because 24 was not that much different than 25. Now. If you said over, over 20, 24. Sorry, yeah. If you said it was a 70% drop over the year 2020. Yeah. Or 21. You know where people were coming out and the volume was huge and the prices increases. So anyway, get your volume up, lower your prices, start shedding subs as you finish these jobs and quit carrying the burden of all of them. You may have to shed some office staff.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Say the office, the office staff.

[Dave Ramsey]

You may have to get that down. But you, but you've got to get this nut where you can keep it cracked every month, whether it's overhead, nut or variable expenses associated with the deals and then that'll get you out. But everything's on sale starting today. You gotta have a sale and you gotta get. Because that's gonna get your velocity back up and maybe you can turn the corner before it crashes down around your head. I hope you can because what you've done is impressive. It's just sad you did it the way you did it, so it's gonna come hit you in the face. The work you're doing is amazing. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you. Like we would find what you [e-mail] insurance. If you've been trying to describe this Ramsey stuff to one of your friends or relatives and you know it's a mouthful, we'll you help you. We've got the Ramsey 101 playlist. Helps you get started. Ramsey 101 entry level class, right? And we've got several clips on there like what are the baby steps? How to pay off debt using the debt snowball, how to work with your spouse, how to build an emergency fund, and more. The most asked questions, kind of the best of so to speak. And the get started list as well. It's the 101. So click the link at the top of the show notes to open Ramsey101 playlist on YouTube. Then text it or DM it or send it to a group chat. Just say hey, hey. Think this might help? If you're listening on radio, just jump on the YouTube channel and you can find the playlist featured there. One share, one step can change everything for one person in your life. Thank you for doing that. It's all free. By the way, Mary's in Tallahassee, Florida. Hi Mary, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm well, Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

So my ex husband and I accumulated a significant amount of tax debt. We are divorced. A couple years ago, a federal tax lien was placed on the home. The home has now been sold. I do not live in that home. But I was under the impression upon research on the IRS website that a federal tax lien, if it's placed on a home at the closing, the amount that is owed should be taken out. That is owed to the IRS at the closing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Otherwise the title is not clear.

[Rachel Cruz]

That did not happen. My ex husband was aware of the lien, the closing attorney was aware of the lien and they both walked away and it did not get settled. And so I don't know if I have a leg to stand on. I don't know. I don't know what to do here.

[Dave Ramsey]

The funds were dispersed to who?

[Rachel Cruz]

To my ex husband.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because he then owned the house out of the divorce.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because he got that house out of the divorce. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

The lien is on both of you apparently right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

I've had many, many, many conversations with the IRS and I can't. The lien is on him, I think. But you know the notice of federal tax lien that we got in the mail, I have a copy of it. You know, it has both.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was the lien from who didn't pay taxes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, but you know, it's both of us combined.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know both of you didn't pay taxes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct. I mean, because it was large. It was a large amount owed and we just couldn't, we just couldn't do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Were you self employed, both of you or what? How did you not pay your taxes?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, at one, at one point through these many years, he was self employed and he failed to, to do the, the obligatory, you know, quarterly taxes. And so that did not help matters and that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, but I mean, so how much is the tax lien.

[Rachel Cruz]

We owe? About 65,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much of that was on his income that he produced?

[Rachel Cruz]

That I am unsure of. Based, you know, that I do not know why.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you should have a theory. Were you working a salary job?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Were you not having taxes withheld on your salary job? Of course I was.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I even had additional taxes taken out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so he was working, he was working a business and was not filing his quarterly and not filing taxes or not paying his taxes on his business. That's where this came from, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, some of the years. Not all of them. Some of the years I'm not Sure. Why? We owed so much, to be honest with you, Dave. But we were on a payment plan for a while. Then, you know, we got divorced. The payment plan. We stopped paying on financial stress. Now I've looked into getting on another payment plan, and that payment plan is going to be way too much a month to afford.

[Dave Ramsey]

The IRS is not trying to collect from you.

[Rachel Cruz]

The IRS is not trying to collect from me. I mean, I do have my own personal debt from last year. It's a.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. I'm talking about on this particular lien amount.

[Rachel Cruz]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

They don't even act like you're there, I'm assuming.

[Rachel Cruz]

No. But then when I go onto the IRS website, it does talk about a lien. But then when I call them a lien.

[Dave Ramsey]

A lien is not. If your husband. If they're chasing your husband, they would have put a lien against anything that had his name on. This house used to also have your name on it. But that doesn't mean you're liable for the taxes necessarily. Were y' all doing Mary, filing jointly?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, that's. That's the only reason it would have your name on it. You probably could escape using innocent spouse provision. You need some tax advice from a pro that can get into this instead of you talking to the irs, because, I mean, you're talking to a kid in a cubicle at the irs. Exactly.

[Rachel Cruz]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a different one every time you come call.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yeah. And it takes hours each time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, no, I'm not doing that anymore. You need to hire somebody. What do you make now, money wise? Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, I make a very decent living.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make now?

[Rachel Cruz]

I make $105,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. So you make enough to call jump online@ramsey solutions.com and click on ELP for taxes. Endorse local provider for taxes. Find the person we endorse for taxes in Tallahassee, Florida. Go sit down with them and tell them the story, and tell them to get to the bottom of it and give them 500 bucks and they'll do it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what you've got to do. I don't know. I can't tell what happened with this house. I've done a bazillion real estate transactions that had IRS liens on them, and 100% of them got paid because the title's simply not clear.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, that's what I was wondering. I'm like, who?

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know how they. I don't know how this happened.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If it was purposeful, accidental, sloppy. Was it Like. Like how did that not happen?

[Dave Ramsey]

The buyer would have needed a title.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Insurance policy if they went. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Especially if they got a mortgage. They would have been required to get a title insurance policy. You can't get title insurance on something with an IRS lien on it. And so that's what's weird here. So something I think your husband's feeding your ex husband's feeding you a line of bull crap is what I think.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What do you think? You think he paid it and he's lying to her?

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know what happened, but she. I don't. What she described would be so hard to pull off. It would be just ludicrous for the closing attorney to allow a seller to sign a warranty date or a special warranty deed knowing there's an IRS lien against this house, knowing the title's not clear. That would just be so messed up. I just can't believe it happens.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, that's not. There's no way to get around this and it turn out clear. Good for everybody. A title insurance company is going to come down. You know, they're not going to allow it. So I just. Something different is happening than what she thinks is happening. That's what I can't tell. So anyway, get somebody to help you get to the bottom of it, Mary. It's possible that they simply are not after you and it's not your problem. And that's my hope. That's what I hope you find when you get to the bottom of it. Roy is in Iowa. Hi, Roy. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Show. Hi, Roy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Mr. Ramsey, thank you so much for. Yeah, can you hear me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

Pretty good. Thank you for answering my phone call, Mr. Ramsey. I have a question. I have a trucking company I've been running for the past one year. So I started with one heavy duty truck and then added a couple more trucks as well. So, you know, everything was good, but there were a lot of hiccups and all that going. Good stuff. So, you know, just a couple of months ago, one of my trucks burned down. You know, the driver just sent me a video, the truck was set on fire and all that good stuff, you know, it was very horrible. But, you know, the reason I'm calling is because I'm most of the time stressed out about this business, not because a lot of people complain about the market. I'm not complaining about the market. You know, I'm very satisfied with whatever the rates are being provided. I mean, they're enough to feed the stomachs, paid by bills and, you know, keep the show running. But what I'm concerned about is the breakdowns of the trucks in this industry. I mean, they can cost you a lot of money. Sometimes 20 grand, 30 grand even go worse.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what you need to do when you close the books each month and you determine what your profits are, you need to start having a line item in your monthly budget that sets aside money for future replacement repairs. So a percentage of your profits, a large percentage of your profits at your stage of business, 20, 30% of your profits before you take it home to eat. Quit acting like you made that much money, because you haven't yet until you paid for the repairs. So if you make $10,000 a month, I want you to set 3,000 aside or 4,000 aside or whatever 30 or 40% is for repairs. And I want you to build a repair war chest. And it's called retained earnings in business. And so build up your emergency fund inside your business. But you do that by setting a set percentage of your profits each month as if it was an expense, because it is a future expense and you're just setting the money back for it. Hey, guys, I love summer, but do you ever notice how fast money can.

[Rachel Cruz]

Get out of hand this time of year? You know how it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

You want to make all these great memories summaries. It's so easy to just put your brain in beach mode and swipe that credit card. But then you end the summer saying, where the heck did all this debt come from? Look, I want you to have some fun. I just want you to plan for it with a budget. The EveryDollar budget app is the easiest.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Way to make a plan for your money.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm telling you right now, when you do that, you'll see that a budget doesn't confine your money. It defines it. It puts you in control of where your money's to going, going.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you can enjoy your summer without.

[Dave Ramsey]

Overspending or going into credit card debt. So go download everydollar for free in the app store or Google play right now. When tackling your debt or building well, people can sometimes forget about the defense while they're playing offense. And that's called insurance. Having the right coverage as opposed to too little or too much can impact how long it takes to get out of debt. Skimping on insurance might seem like saving, but when life happens, it's easy to fall back into debt without the right safety net. The right insurance acts as a shield. The wrong insurance acts as A drain on your budget. So how do you know if you got the right coverage? We have a free coverage checkup. It's a free. Did I mention it's free online resource that creates personalized insurance action plan ramseysolutions.com checkup. To take the coverage checkup, click the link in the description. If you're on podcast or YouTube, don't miss this. Did I mention it's free? Haley's in New York City. Hi, Haley, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

So to get to the point, I'm kind of calling in just to see if it's possible for me to become a stay at home mom. There are some other factors outside of that that will affect it and I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to a lot of this stuff just because all I've ever known is to work. But it's seeming to cost me more going into work than it is to not One of my children is going to be potentially going in for brain surgery within the next next month and she's going to have to need one of her parents home obviously after for the care. And I'm really stressing out about it because I get paid bi weekly and I just brought home a 500 paycheck, a BI weekly paycheck. And it went to pretty much nothing because everything is so expensive nowadays. And my fiance is switching jobs at the end of the month to make us more money. And I'm just wondering if it would at all be possible because we do have two vehicle loans. That's about the only debt that we have together. We are not married other than he does owe Some, I think $3,000 to the government. But that's been on my mind lately, just more because of the surgery that is upcoming. And I just need to know where to go at this point with the plan of everything and the plan of action.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what does he make on?

[Rachel Cruz]

He makes 25 an hour. Where he is currently, that will be increasing.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're in New York City?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, we are actually quite a bit upstate from New York City. Okay, I didn't think.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't think. You're in Manhattan on $25 an hour.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. No.

[Rachel Cruz]

I currently make 20.50 an hour, but I work.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he, what does he do?

[Rachel Cruz]

He's a welder.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how old is he?

[Rachel Cruz]

He's 24 as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is he only making 25 as a welder? It should be 50.

[Rachel Cruz]

That. Yeah, I'm not sure about that either. I had questioned that, but I guess it's something to do with a union.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we'll leave the union and go be a freelance welder. Make $50.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm dead serious. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's what I had said, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you guys are 24. You have a brand new baby. How old is your baby, this having surgery?

[Rachel Cruz]

She's. She just turned one. I have two older kids as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All with him?

[Rachel Cruz]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Is she his?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, well, I'm going to help you with the money question and then I'm going to give you some advice that you didn't ask for from just an old guy that. That loves you. Okay?

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's irresponsible for him and you to not be married when you have a child facing a brain surgery.

[Rachel Cruz]

I understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get married this weekend. You, my darling, are extremely vulnerable right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And Rachel and I have taken calls from people over and over where something like this happens and the guy checks jets.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm not accusing your guy of that. Okay?

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to protect you and this child because. And I want him to prove he's going to be there and I want him. Put a ring on it this weekend.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's going to help you. That's the old guy advice. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. And then I want him to get a better job.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The answer to the question is, can you stay at home for the short term? You don't have a choice. You're going to be at home.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And y' all are going to have to figure it out. He may have to work three jobs. You may have to work some side gigs when he's done cars.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you don't have payments every month?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How much? You may have to sell some cars and get rid of these car payments, but, you know, you're going to have to do some stuff because this child's care, the care of this child is number one. Agreed?

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the answer to your question, overall, mathematically, can I stay at home with the kids, like a permanent decision, is yes, as soon as you can live on his income.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the math, isn't it? So we've got to do a budget based on his income, meaning that we can pay our rent, we can eat, we can do lights and pay car payments or get rid of the car payments. We have to create a life that is within his income, and then you can stay at home mathematically, automatically, without creating a mess.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

As a permanent decision, as a short term decision, you're gonna be at home.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you gotta take care of a brain surgery situation. Wow.

[Rachel Cruz]

I just took two weeks off of work because the other issue that we had been dealing with was about two months ago, my daughter was also assaulted at daycare. So we had to find a different daycare provider, and then we lost the second one. So I do have, as of right now, two weeks off of work until somebody else can start. And that's mainly what's been freaking me out a little bit, is trying to make the decision of whether or not just to stay home, because I drive a Tahoe and I work 45 minutes away from my house. So what do you.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you owe on the two cars?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, we have a van and we have a Tahoe. The TAHOE is about 25,000 because I rolled over from a vehicle that I had to trade in, and. And he owes about 13,000 on the van.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, the Tahoe's killing y' all.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we gotta get it sold, and we gotta get that debt paid off. And that's gonna involve income coming from one or both of you, and then that's gonna enable you to fit your life within his income. And his income has to come up for that to happen. That's what the. That's what I think the math is going to tell me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What do you do for a living?

[Rachel Cruz]

I work in a medical laboratory at a hospital, but I only work three days a week as of right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. I was wondering if there's a way that you guys tag team this where he works all day, comes home, tags you in possibly, and you go do a shift or two. Right, Right. Maybe twice a week or something. Like, if you guys can tag team each other just to bring in some income for this time to get this stuff paid off, that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because if you don't have any car payments, you can fit your life within his income a lot quicker. And the way you get there is create extra income on the short term.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's is the surgery date. Has it been set, Haley?

[Rachel Cruz]

It has not yet. She has an MRI this Friday morning.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't know. More information probably after that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the primary thing I want out of the whole discussion is for the baby to be taken care of. And the secondary thing is to take care of the short term time that you're off work. And then the third thing is to answer the question of what must be true that's not true today for us to be able to live on his income. And that would probably be Getting rid of the Tahoe debt, getting rid of his car debt, getting, Getting his income up. That's probably when you sit down to do your budget. What you're going to figure out. Figure out. Because I don't know that you're gonna do this on 25 an hour from one person. Yeah, no, I don't know that. And have three kids. I just. I don't know that you're gonna be able to do it. You're probably not breaking even on daycare and Tahoe payments. So I agree with you on that. With you working three days a week, so you're probably not losing much by losing that job. If you lose the Tahoe payment by getting it. By getting it sold and, or, you know, even if you have to finance the difference as a standalone personal loan.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that. To cover the upside down amount.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. But I would really talk to him, Haley, and look at some options because this is a. I mean, it's a pretty vital situation you guys are in. I mean, like we were saying, you don't have a choice after. After she comes home from surgery. Somewhat. Yeah. You have to be there to take care of her. So there's, there's choices that we all have to make in a situation like this that, that we don't want. So even if he wants to stay where he is workwise, he may not have a choice. He may have to leave the union and go figure out something else, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Know, so make more money as a welder. He can make more than 25 for sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm so sorry, though. It's a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. You got a lot on you, kiddo.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sam Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest. Invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramseysolutions.com smartvestor to get connected.

[Rachel Cruz]

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day. Proverbs 10 for lazy hands make for poverty, but diligent hands bring wealth. Andrew Tobias said, you want 21% interest risk free. Pay off your credit card work. Danielle is in Salt Lake City. Hey, Danielle. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey. Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help? Hey.

[Rachel Cruz]

So my husband and I, to keep it short and sweet, we applied for this program. It's basically a rent to own program sponsored by the state. It is a 15 year term, and we cannot buy the home until the end of that term. But essentially all of our rent payments would go towards equity on that home. My holdup is that we'll be basically renting for 15 years, and we are only in baby step two right now, so we don't have an emergency fund, but our debt is only like $6,000, so not a ton.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I think your holdup was. Was, you know, a good. Was a good analysis. I would not do this.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not under any circumstances would I do this. No, I would get. I would get. I would get out of debt. I'd build an emergency fund. I'd start saving for a down payment on a house. No, I would not rent for 15 years on purpose.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So much changes, Danielle, in 15 years. If you think about it, life, I mean, it's just crazy. Think about 15 years ago for you, right? I mean, just. It is. And to be locked into something, if.

[Dave Ramsey]

You never close on it, 100% of the money went to rent for 50.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, well, this.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, our rent payment right now would be the exact.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you never close on it, 100% of it went to rent. I'll give you 100% chance. You never close on it. You're not going to stay there 15 years. Too much happens in life. Crap. The roof on the thing will be 15 years old. The dishwasher will be 15 years old. Stuff's gonna start breaking left and right. That's if it's brand new when you move in it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Danielle, why did you guys.

[Rachel Cruz]

It is a brand new home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why did y' all. Why did y' all decide this and not just have a mortgage and build equity on your own? And why. Why are you guys using this program?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, we were building a savings account and trying to save, but we had a baby, so all of our emergency funds went to paying that down. And we're still kind of working on. On that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. I love it. So you get that. You get that last 6,000 cleared, you build the emergency fund, and then you go buy. You start saving for a house. How old are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

23. And my husband's 24.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Please don't do this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, the thing is, we can get out of the rent program. We're not signing for 15 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't, don't sign up, but don't sign anything else. Just don't do it at all. Please don't do it. It's not good. It's not good for you. You called nass. I'm going to tell you the truth. How do I visualize 33 year old Danielle in her best life? It's not 10 years into a 15 year rent program. I can tell you, you that you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Could be so much better off, Danielle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You'll be so much better off at 33.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. I mean seriously, think about it. It's going to take you guys a couple years. Don't rush into a house. You guys are fine. You got time, rent, get yourself in a position and then actually start building money for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

As you guys start. When you finally buy a house for you guys, if you buy a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

In four years, that's 11 years sooner than the plan you're buying.

[Dr. John Deloney]

People are paying off their homes in seven to nine years using the programs. You could have a paid off house completely yours before this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Before you would even be buying this other one.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's a reason these programs exist, Danielle. It's because people are not in good financial situations to buy houses. So don't, don't buy a house. It's you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not ready yet.

[Rachel Cruz]

You're not ready yet.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think all the lights are flashing. Just.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got plenty of time to do this. Please, please don't do it. Please don't do it. Your instinct when you. The wisest thing you said is the thing that' going to be renting the whole time. And that really, really, really means a lot. It should be bothering you and this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

May not be the case, but I'm gonna say it out loud because I see it. Salt Lake City, it's kind of become a like a small little la. The amount of lifestyle and wealth and keeping up out of that city is pretty unbelievable. So like I don't know if there's any level of comparison, Danielle, of what you're living in is everyone's like just doing really well around you. I don't you know if know but I see more and more of that really coming out of Salt Lake. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

No idea.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I should get out more. Joseph is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hey Joseph, what's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, how's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I'm calling to. I'm trying to decide if it would be a good Idea to sell my paid off truck to help pay off some debts and start a good start savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is the truck worth?

[Rachel Cruz]

I've gotten one estimate and it was for 21,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you. What do you make a year? You broke up. I'm sorry. You make What a year?

[Rachel Cruz]

47,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

47,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah, your phone's messing up. 47,000. And you have a $20,000 truck. Okay. Are you single?

[Rachel Cruz]

I have a girlfriend.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you're single. How old are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

22.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Single or married are the two options. Okay, so you're in a relationship. You're 22. You're.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're dating someone. That's cool. And you have a $20,000 truck is paid for. How much debt have you got?

[Rachel Cruz]

I have 4,200 to the IRS and 2,000 on a credit card before I heard about you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How did you get behind with the IRS at 22 years old?

[Rachel Cruz]

So last year I took a job as a contractor. So I was basically self employed and just taxes is how I have that debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Are you now?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, I changed jobs and now I'm on a W2.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you ever were a contractor again, you know how to handle it. So that doesn't happen again. Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Lesson learned.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay, good. So both of these are lessons learned. Okay, so 6,240 7,000. You like the truck?

[Rachel Cruz]

I do. I really like it. But I'm just trying to think long term, what would be better for me.

[Dave Ramsey]

I appreciate the maturity of that statement, but for $6,000, I would not sell a $20,000 truck that I like.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I wouldn't either.

[Dave Ramsey]

When I am making 47, I would rather work three or four weeks, weekends and some overtime and live on beans and rice and not see the inside of a restaurant and my date be throwing frisbee for a while. And let's get these 6,000 knocked out real, real fast. I'd rather do that than sell my truck.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I like my truck too, by the way. I'm not selling it. So I drove it today.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely something I wasn't really ecstatic to do, but I was just thinking, you know, maybe.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Things to sell.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would rather you get control of your business budget and tighten it up. And that's a lesson that'll help you anyway in case this dating relationship gets more serious. And that's a lesson that'll help you become a millionaire by the time you're 30 and all those kinds of things.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Versus like a sweeping. Just. I'll sell one thing and just fix everything. Fix the issue.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Where there's something about.

[Dave Ramsey]

I do think you've learned both your lessons on these two things. I'm not worried about that part of it, but I love the idea of you gutting this out. Out by getting. By pinching your dollars and making them scream. And then that gets you. That also has the benefit of letting you keep a really nice truck. And I'm pretty cool with all that. But, you know, she's going to have to put up with you being a cheapskate for a month or two while you knock this out. And that's probably a pretty good relationship.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Test anyway to see if she sticks around.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Jason calls back and says he's single. Then we know we may have messed that one up for you, Joseph.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time I messed it up for somebody. I'm pretty good at that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. But no, it's. But it's a good thought, though, because, you know, and people sometimes ask on a. On a larger scale, should I sell my house to get out of, you know, $40,000 of debt and all of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so not usually.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yep. Not usually.

[Dave Ramsey]

Usually you're better off to work your way out of it. Unless there's some other reason to sell the house, other reason to sell the truck. I hate the truck. Well, it sells. Stupid thing anyway. But. But no, he likes his truck. And so I'm pretty good with that. Pretty good with that. Good show, Rachel. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace. Christ Jesus.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, you guys. I was shocked to learn that 88 of you out there are sharing the Ramsay. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey101 YouTube playlist. A quick start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsey plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So here's what's inside. Decide what the baby steps are and why they actually work. How the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast. And how to build wealth and invest for the future and so much more. So here's what you need to do, click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube playlist. Copy it, text it, send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I thought this might help. Because one playlist shared at the right time. Time could be the turning point. One share, one playlist, one step could change everything for that one person in your life. So click the link, share the Ramsey show, and let's help someone out there start winning with money.