She's 20 and Her Parents Want Her To Buy Them A House

Summary

The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: She's 20 and Her Parents Want Her To Buy Them A House
Date: November 6, 2025
Hosts: George Kamel & Rachel Cruze
Network: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show features a series of insightful, candid, and sometimes humorous calls about money, family, and life decisions. The headline segment centers on Anna, a 20-year-old biomedical engineering PhD student grappling with parental pressure to buy the family a house. Other topics include debt management, family boundaries, inheritance issues, and young adults navigating independence.

The episode is marked by the hosts’ direct, compassionate advice, with several memorable quotes and teachable moments. The tone is supportive but never shies away from calling out dysfunction or setting healthy boundaries.

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Key Segment Summaries

1. Parental Pressure – Should Anna Buy Her Parents a House?

(00:39 – 08:45)

Caller: Anna, 20, PhD student in San Jose
Issue: Anna’s parents want her to buy them (and the family) a nicer house, leveraging her $150k in savings.

Highlights:

• Anna’s Situation:

  • “My parents want me to buy us a house because I have the money financially...I’m just really stressed and it feels like a lot of pressure.” (01:15)
  • Anna’s savings are earmarked for med school, she works multiple jobs and has impressive self-sufficiency for her age.

• Hosts’ Immediate Reaction:

  • George: “Sentence was wild. Your parents want you to buy us a house?” (01:07)
  • Rachel: “That's crazy, right?” (04:18)

• Main Advice:

  • The hosts assert boundaries and prioritize Anna’s future:
    • “The money I have is to cash flow my med school expenses, and I will not be buying a house.” (03:33)
    • Rachel: “It is not your job to make your mom happy.” (04:25)

• Dysfunction and Boundaries:

  • The hosts call out the parental manipulation and predict escalation if Anna gives in:
    • George: “You give someone an inch, and they'll take a mile.” (05:42)
    • “If you say yes to anything, they're going to continue to exploit everything you have because you're the successful one in the family.” (05:47)

• Escalation:

  • Anna reveals she signed house purchase papers and feels immense family pressure.
  • Rachel and George demand she back out immediately:
    • “No...You need to back out of all of this.” (07:31)

• On Moving Out:

  • George: “I would move out if I were you...You don’t owe them anything.” (06:36)

Memorable Moments and Quotes:

• “It’s about to be Bank of Anna for the rest of your life if you don’t put a foot down.” — George (06:54)
• “If these are your parents, I'm sure they were wonderful...But if you can start putting up those boundaries now, that's just good.” — Rachel (05:19)
• The hosts encourage Anna to seek therapy for support through these difficult conversations.

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2. Other Notable Calls & Segments

Lance’s Debt Rut

(10:34 – 19:48)

• Background: Lance, moved states to escape $65k of debt but hasn't made a dent despite earning $100k/year.
• Findings: Major spending on two vehicles (Harley & truck) is the main culprit; hosts urge private sale and using proceeds to pay down debt.
• Advice: Learn precisely where money is going; budget tightly; use EveryDollar app for clarity.
• Quote: “$6,000 doesn’t just ‘trickle out’...Where is it all going?” — George (12:13)

Martin’s Elderly Father’s Investments

(22:14 – 29:22)

• Issue: Martin’s 80-year-old, frugal father has a $1.3M net worth but is fearful of investing, contemplates buying gold.
• Hosts’ Input: If father is set for life and anxious about investing, it’s okay to remain cash-heavy; focus on estate planning.
• Quote: “If he’s 80 and he’s not in the best health, and if putting money in the market stresses him out and loses sleep...that’s not worth it either. He’s fine.” — Rachel (25:39)
• General Lesson: Emotional peace can sometimes outweigh potential financial gains in later life.

Jenna’s Family Debt Payoff Plan

(33:35 – 42:58)

• Situation: $98k combined debt, high income ($230k/yr), minimal savings.
• Ramsey Plan: Stop all investing temporarily (even forgoing employer matches), cut expenses drastically, attack debt with full intensity to pay it off in 1–2 years instead of 5.
• Motivation: “Going down to 0% investing is going to make you both mad...at your debt. And that’s going to make you get out of debt faster.” — George (38:53)

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3. Boundaries, Guilt, and Family Support

• Ann’s Story (45:03 – 54:59): Middle-aged, newly divorced woman starting over with no assets, struggling to make rent, supporting adult daughter’s family. Hosts provide emotional support, prioritize Ann’s own stability first, recommend putting herself first before aiding others.
• Ashley and “Horse Parent” Dilemma (87:35 – 95:41):
  • Parents paying all expenses for adult daughter (including $400/mo for boarding her horse) due to past depression/suicidal ideation.
  • Rachel: “Helping her become an adult is not being mean. It’s actually the most loving thing you can do because...it actually is going to give her self-confidence.” (90:14)
• Theme: Across calls, the hosts emphasize loving boundaries and personal financial responsibility over enabling, even when emotionally tough.

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4. Young Adults and Independence

• Drew’s Electric Bike vs. Moving Out (66:04 – 72:17):

  • 28-year-old newlywed living with parents “to save for a house,” wants to buy a $4,000 electric bike. Hosts gently but humorously challenge his priorities and urge moving out for dignity/adult experience.
  • Rachel: “Can we just be newlyweds? Nothing in me wants to be with parents or in-laws for an extended period...Y’all are married.” (67:48)

• James, Teen Casino Dealer Thinking About Real Estate (108:36 – 112:26):

  • 19, earning $150k/y dealing cards, considering house purchase; hosts advise patience, renting/moving out if he wants, and not to rush into real estate just because he can.

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5. Graduate School vs. Real-World Experience

• Renee’s Dilemma for Her Daughter (77:59 – 85:56):
  • Daughter, stellar student wanting to enter $30k debt for a 10-month business grad program.
  • Hosts firmly recommend getting a job and real-world experience over further (possibly unnecessary) study.
  • George: “For someone who loves business, this would be a terrible business plan.” (80:15)
  • Rachel: “It's a $30,000 kick-the-can down the road for 10 months. And then what's going to happen?...Same problem, $30,000 in debt.” (80:57)

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6. Real Estate & Rental Properties

• Thomas’ Newlywed Condo Quandary (112:49 – 117:33):
  • New husband finds wife’s condo rental loses $200/month by undercharging tenant.
  • Hosts: This is not charity, it's poor stewardship—either raise the rent or sell; combine finances and have honest, gentle conversations.

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Notable Quotes & Time Stamps

• “Your parents want you to buy us a house? That is insane.”
  — George (01:07, 02:13)

• “These will be difficult conversations, Anna, but the earlier you start doing this — with kindness, but being very firm...that’s just good.”
  — Rachel (05:19)

• “You give someone an inch, and they'll take a mile...They’re going to use [guilt] to abuse and guilt you into things.”
  — George (05:42)

• “Stop trying to make your mom happy. That’s not your job.” — Rachel (04:25)

• “$6,000 doesn’t just ‘trickle out.’ So if I looked at your bank statement and I added everything up, where would be the big piles of money that disappeared?”
  — George (12:13)

• “Helping her become an adult is not being mean. It’s actually the most loving thing you can do.”
  — Rachel (90:14)

• “Can we just be newlyweds? ...Y’all are married.”
  — Rachel (67:48)

• “For someone who loves business, this would be a terrible business plan.”
  — George (80:15)

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | Note | |------------------------------|-------------|-----------------------------------------------| | Anna’s Family House Dilemma | 00:39–08:45 | Boundary-setting, parental pressure | | Lance in Debt Limbo | 10:34–19:48 | Major debt tied to vehicle purchases | | Martin’s Elderly Father | 22:14–29:22 | Investments, legacy, end-of-life planning | | Jenna’s Debt Payoff Plan | 33:35–42:58 | Stop investing, attack debt, high income | | Ann’s Divorce/Restart | 45:03–54:59 | Stability first, prioritizing self | | Ashley’s Adult Horse Daughter| 87:35–95:41 | Gentle “tough love” on enabling | | Drew & the Electric Bike | 66:04–72:17 | Adulting, dignity, priorities | | Renee’s Grad School Question | 77:59–85:56 | Grad school ROI, real-world experience | | Thomas & the Money-Losing Condo| 112:49–117:33 | Joint finances, charitable rental issue |

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The Ramsey Show: Core Themes from the Episode

• Family boundaries: “No” is a complete sentence, especially where adult children and finances mix.
• Avoid enabling dysfunction—even out of love and past trauma.
• Wealth-building requires intensity and prioritizing high-impact decisions (debt payoff > investing for many callers).
• Independence is a gift: whether for 20-somethings moving out or parents letting adult kids shoulder responsibility.
• Emotional peace—especially in investing or retirement—sometimes outweighs squeezing every dollar.
• Experience over credentials: Don't pay for extra degrees for the sake of comfort or insecurity; get real-world results.

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Final Thoughts

This episode underscores that the “right thing” financially is often about character and courage, not just math. The hosts encourage listeners to set boundaries, seek support, and focus on their own responsibilities—no matter the relational or emotional obstacles.

Transcript

[A]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by my co host, Rachel Cruz. And we're taking your calls at 888-5225. Anna is going to kick us off in San Jose. Anna, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[B]

Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I'm calling in today to see if it's worth it to buy a house. A little background of me. I'm 20 years old. I'm doing a PhD in biomedical engineering. I have a degree in biomedical engineering as well. And I plan to go to medical school. My parents want me to buy us a house because I have the money financially. I'm just wondering to see. What do you guys think?

[A]

I don't want that. Sentence was wild. Your parents want you to buy us a house?

[B]

Yes, like once. My entire house.

[C]

The family, you, them. Do you have siblings?

[B]

Yeah, I do. I have two brothers and I have one sister. One. My brother does not live with us.

[A]

Okay, where are you guys living?

[B]

Another brother. Sorry, say that again.

[A]

Where are you guys living now? Like, are you guys renting?

[B]

No, no, no. We own a house. It's a pretty big house. It's like 2,000 square feet. But my mom wants her nicer house because my uncle has a nice house. And you know, it's. It's gonna go all on me and I'm just. I'm really stressed and it feels like a lot of pressure.

[C]

Well, sure.

[B]

And I want my mom to.

[C]

Okay, so. Okay, so I'm. I'm so curious how this conversation goes. Do. Are they saying to you, anna, you should buy us a house? We need a. We need a new house, Anna, you have the money. Why don't you just do it? Is that like. Is that how the conversation goes?

[A]

Yes. That is insane. I want you to know that. Why don't they just go buy a house if they want a house? It doesn't matter if you can afford it. You're not the one who wants a house. If they want to upgrade in house, that's something they need to do as grown adults.

[C]

How much money do you have, Anna?

[B]

I have around 150k cash.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And a lot of it is in the market.

[C]

How do you have that much money at 20? I'm just curious. Have you been working or how did you get that?

[B]

I've been working since I was 15. I had a business at 15. I used to tutor people. We actually made an app. I don't want to say it publicly, but we sold the app. I made that money. And then I've been working, like all throughout university through my degree, and right now I work, I make like 70, 60k a year.

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

And how are you going to pay for med school?

[B]

Like, through my money, through my savings. And, you know, like, I know money always comes and goes. I mean, as long as you have the skills and you can provide value, you can always make money.

[A]

Okay, so this $150,000, is that earmarked to pay for med school?

[B]

I have around 100 cases, so yes.

[A]

Okay. So therefore it is not house buying money, especially when it's your parents who are forcing you to do this. So I would just tell them kindly and firmly, no, the money I have is to cash flow my med school expenses.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I will not be buying a house.

[C]

And the truth is, and when you. When you go to med school and you doing all of your programs, you know, you. You have no idea what city you're going to be at, you have no idea what hospital you're going to be at doing, you know, all of your clinicals. I mean, everywhere.

[A]

You might move across the country.

[C]

Yeah. So. So no, in no way do you need to be buying a house in your, you know, where you are in your season of life, let alone the complete dysfunction of your parents. Like, you know, that's crazy, right?

[B]

And it sounds insane. I don't want to do it, but I want my mom to be happy. You know, like she says, my, it's.

[A]

Not your job to make your mom happy.

[C]

It's not your job. And she sounds like she's a woman that probably will never be happy. She'll get this house. If you did, if you went through with this and you bought this, I guarantee you in three to four years, she's gonna be like, oh, man. Well, my new friend has this house.

[A]

And a nicer car. It's time for the car upgrade.

[C]

And the fact that she would go to her 20 year old and ask to not even ask kind of sounds like demands or requested. A house is so wild. So wild. And you're. You're smart. You know this. And so it. It is diff. These will be difficult conversations, Anna, but the earlier you start doing this with kindness, but being very firm and knowing exactly where you stand, it's gonna ruffle some feathers But I would. That this is gonna be your life. Right. I mean, I hate to say it, if these are your parents, I'm sure they were wonderful and raised you, obviously did, you know, raising you, because you're incredible. But this is gonna be a picture of what the future looks like. And if you can start putting up those boundaries now at 20 years old with a very obvious situation, that there needs to be a boundary there, that's just good. It's a good starting point for you. But I'm so sorry you have to do this. That's so unfair.

[A]

It's an uncomfortable position.

[C]

The fact they've put you in the situation is crazy.

[A]

Have you ever heard of the quote, you give someone an inch and they'll take a mile?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's what I think is going to happen with your family. They're going to continue to exploit everything you have because you're the successful one in the family and they raised you. And therefore, how could you not buy them a house after everything they've done for you? And they're going to use that to abuse and guilt you into things. That's the future that you have if you say yes to anything.

[B]

Yeah, you're right. Whatever you're saying yes to, look at what you're saying. No, I always keep this in mind. Okay? Here's one of my issues. I told her, I can't do this. She came in here and she was like, you just need to sign the papers. And she was screaming at me for like an hour, 30 minutes, an hour, saying, oh, don't worry, you'll remake the money. And I told her, what about medical school? She told me, you can take loans now. And I mean.

[A]

And I'm going to be honest with you. I would move out if I were you. You make 60, $70,000 a year. You're a grown woman. You're very smart. I would just go rent and say, you guys need to figure this out. I'm going to go out on my own. And you don't give them a dime. You don't owe them anything.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

That's the only way out of this. Because if you stay, they're going to say, well, you're under our roof. And look at everything we've done for you. You need to just call it quits now, because it's becoming a transaction instead of a relationship. It's about to be bank of Anna for the rest of your life if you don't put a foot down.

[C]

And do they have. What papers are they giving you? Do they Already have a house they want to buy.

[B]

There's a house. They've been looking at houses. And they'll send me, like links of houses every day. And I. I signed the house like yesterday because I was like. I mean, I didn't know what to do. So I signed the contract and now I just need to give the earnest money.

[A]

No. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. No earnest money.

[C]

No.

[A]

You need to back out of all of this.

[C]

Okay. And. Yeah. And I would kind of put it back on her. If money can just be earned and you can always make more money, then go. Mom.

[A]

Are they both working full time?

[C]

And support yourself. This is crazy.

[B]

My dad used to own a dealership. He lost it in Covid, so I sell his cars. We still have cars, but I sell them. But if I don't sell the cars, he doesn't do anything. So right now he's made no money. My mom is a teacher. She makes around 30k a year or 25.

[A]

And you're running dad's business while he sits around waiting for you to run his business?

[B]

Yes, but I've sold no cars this month or last month. I mean, I haven't had time.

[A]

Yeah, you're pretty busy.

[C]

Yeah. Anna, these are. This is. I hate that you're in a position like this at 20 years old, but this is your reality. And there is going to have to be some real hard conversations. And if you have the ability, bandwidth wise, which financially you do, you make great money. I would sit down with a counselor, a therapist to walk through this like this may be some ongoing discussions that are going to be had. And I want you to be guided the right way. So I almost would just find a professional to help you walk through this.

[A]

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[B]

I'm just calling in to get some advice on my current financial situation.

[A]

Sure. Lay it out for us.

[B]

Okay, so I moved out to Ohio exactly a year ago with the goal to start clearing my debt away. About $65,000 in debt. It's a year later, and I'm still pretty much in the same situation. And I don't understand why. I pay rent and I had to furnish my apartment when I got out here, but it just. The math isn't adding up for me.

[A]

How much do you make?

[B]

At my new job, I make about 100,000 on a good year, assuming no layoffs.

[A]

Okay, so in the past year, $100,000 has flowed through your hands in the last year. Or at least that's the gross pay.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Are you doing a pretty detailed budget, Lance, Month to month?

[B]

I mean, about six months in, I really started cracking down on it because I saw that I wasn't gaining much traction.

[C]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, how much is your rent a month?

[B]

Rent's not too bad. It's $1,450.

[C]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

Are you taking home five or six grand a month?

[B]

A little bit more, actually. It's about $2,000 a week.

[A]

Okay, that's great. So where is the rest of the market?

[C]

Where is it all going?

[B]

Well, like I said, I pay rent now. Before, I didn't pay rent when I looked back home in New Hampshire and then I had to furnish my apartment. I guess the rest just gets trickled out there.

[A]

$6,000 doesn't trickle out there. So if I looked at your bank statement and I added everything up, where would be the big piles of money that disappeared? Is it eating out? Is it subscriptions? Is it spending? Is it gamb gambling? Any vices?

[B]

I don't gamble. I have a lot of bills. I mean, I have a truck payment that's $500. I have insurance that's 400 plus I have a Harley that's $500.

[A]

Break down the 65,000 for us. What are the balances and what are they owed for?

[B]

I have about. It's 65,000, give or take. I have 30,000 on my Harley, I have 25,000 on my. On my truck, I have $8,000 on a personal loan, and I had $10,000 on credit card debt, which I was able to manage down to $1,000.

[C]

Oh, good. Well, what good news is if you sell all the vehicles. Well, I mean. Yeah, you got. That's 55,000 of your 65,000. I think we found the problem.

[B]

I looked into selling my Harley back to the dealership.

[A]

No, no, not to the dealership.

[C]

They're gonna give you the worst price.

[A]

They'll screw you harder than anyone.

[C]

Have you Kelly Blue booked it?

[A]

They do. What's the Kelly Blue book, private party value?

[B]

I believe it's at 17,000.

[A]

I don't buy that. How are you that far underwater?

[C]

What about your truck?

[B]

I haven't looked up the blue Book value on it.

[A]

Did you roll over negative equity for this Harley?

[B]

The Harley? No, it was a $30,000 Harley. It was brand new.

[C]

Yeah, but how long have you had it?

[B]

I'm going on the third year now, I believe.

[C]

Because if that's the case, it's in half. I mean, the value of it went in half, which I don't. I'm not up on my Harleys. I know that's probably shocking, but I don't. I don't keep up with the market on Harley's.

[A]

But she's a Mitsubishi gal.

[C]

That's bad. Okay, okay. Let's just keep playing with the numbers here, Lance. Okay. Your tr. When did you get the truck?

[B]

I got the truck last year right before I moved out to Ohio.

[C]

And it Was it used, I'm assuming?

[B]

Yes, yes.

[C]

Okay. So the good thing is the truck probably hasn't lost a ton of its value. So let's just throw. I don't know, let's say it's 22. Maybe you've. Maybe you lost three grand on it in the last year. So what I would. I mean, honestly, what I would do is go and take out. Let's see. I would do 20. I mean, maybe go. If you can maybe sell both of these things. Sell both the truck and the Harley. You may take out a. Well, I was gonna say that's a good chunk of a personal loan.

[A]

Well, you could. All the negative equity difference pretty quick making the money you're making.

[B]

I'm willing. I'm willing to sell my truck and Harley. I do have a small car, like a beater winter car. That.

[A]

Perfect.

[C]

You have three things with wheels and motives.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.

[A]

Okay, so here's your homework. You need to find out the private party value. And then the amount you're underwater on, you either need to save that up through future paychecks or get a loan from a credit union for the difference so that you can clear the titles and sell these, because that's gonna be.

[C]

About 15,000 that you'll be negative on both of these around.

[B]

So I just don't know who to sell my Harley. I don't know how to sell my Harley, I guess, because the dealership was the only way I knew. And when they offered me less than.

[A]

Half, I mean, Facebook, MarketPL Marketplace, Cars.com, autoTrader, there's a lot of people looking. You bought a Harley, brand new for 30. So three years later, someone's looking for it at half price.

[B]

Okay. I just. I've never. I've never sold anything that I. That a bank owned, you know?

[A]

Sure. Well, here's the deal. You're going to need to clear the title before they can actually take possession of it. And that's why you need the difference either in cash that you save up or that loan from the credit union. And you can do all the transactions in the same day. So the day you sell it is the day you go down to the. Wherever you owe the loan to and you pay off the loan with the difference.

[C]

Yeah, because you just cut all your debt in half, Lance, when you do this, which means you get back again. You said the $600 payment for the Harley, the $500 car payment, I mean, that's eleven hundred dollars left, the insurance. But here's what worries me a little bit is even after some of the things you were just saying, I mean, you still have a couple of grand sitting there that is kind of disappearing, that you still, at the beginning of the call, weren't able to tell us exactly where it was going. So that's still enough money for me to be like, oh, my only fear, Lance, is when you do all of this, and it does give you margin and frees you up, that you're going to go back to this kind of spending habit that you're in of not knowing exactly where your money's going. And that's not going to be helpful either, because instead of $4,000 slipping through your fingers, now it'll be 6,000. Right. Or whatever it is. So I want you to be able to know and control your money and where it's going. And so before we get off the call, Christian will pick up, and we're gonna give you a year of everydollar, which is our. Not just our budgeting app, but our overall financial. You can put in all of your numbers and your entire financial picture can be in this app, which is so helpful because you're gonna be able to walk through the baby steps, pay off this debt, and we can really walk with you through it in this app.

[A]

And you'll feel a whole lot less overwhelmed when you just see all the numbers. You can see the. Because right now you're just sort of hoping you make great money, you work really hard and it's disappearing through your fingers and every dollar is going to help you take control of that, to help stop that.

[B]

Yes, I understand. A year ago I was terrible with my money and I'm still not the best, but I have tightened down a lot and I've been living like a hermit for the last four or five months. I'm desperate to get out of debt. I want to.

[C]

I hear. Yeah, I totally hear that, Lance. But what worries me is you've lived like a hermit for four months, but there's no been. There's been no progress. So that's what I'm saying. It's like the two things don't add up. I want you to be a hermit, but I wish you'd called him. Like I was a hermit for four months and I paid off $9,000 of my debt, you know, or whatever it is. Like, I want the. The sacrifice to produce a result because it's just crazy to sacrifice and have no result. Right. And so that's the power of when you are working a very detailed plan as you're getting the results that the sacrifice is allowing. And so that's what I want those two parents. Because you'll run on fumes the rest of your life if you're living like this and not making any progress, which is what sounds like you're doing. So, yeah, as a single guy, Lance, me, I really would. This is the time in your life to cut everything. And even if you wanna work extra, you make great money. But man, if you even wanna just throw in some extra income just to get it paid off that much faster to be able to have some savings, I. Yeah, I mean, I think the.

[B]

Money I make is. Is with immense overtime like I. They offer. It's there.

[C]

Gotcha.

[B]

And I do work a lot.

[C]

Gotcha. Yeah, I believe it. And I think that work ethic, if it's channeled to. I just think you just maybe need more details and direction and it's going to help you see kind of where you're going but you're right, your habits are like, I hear that. That you are changing for the better, which I think is a, is a great way to go. And you know what, Lance, too, I'm gonna say, like some people, their money story is that one day they've, they had the high hat it moment and they change everything. And then some people are like, hey, it took me about six months to kind of get all this under my belt to really learn and understand it. And then they take off. And that just may be your story, which is great, but I just want you to see some progress to at least keep you motivated to stay with it.

[A]

Yeah. Hang on the line and Kelly will pick up, Christian will pick up, will get you every dollar to get you on the journey. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance. Yeah. It's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan, whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. Don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Martin is in Savannah, Georgia, up next. Martin, welcome to the. Welcome to the show, man. What's going on?

[B]

George and Rachel, awesome to talk to you guys. Thank you so much.

[A]

Yeah, you as well. How can we help?

[B]

Awesome. All right, so this call is actually, I'm looking to help my dad out. My dad has $1.3 million net worth. That is 500 in a house paid for 400 in a money market. He's got 200 in a thrift savings plan and he's got 200 in checking. He lives very frugal. He's by himself. My mother passed away in 2008. He has four forms of income, government retirement, the required minimum distribution, his Social Security and a VA disability that he doesn't even touch. All of that throughout the entire.

[C]

How much is that per month?

[B]

I don't know exactly, but it is, well, well enough for him to live off of. And he is just adding to his money market. His checking account, it just continues to grow. But he has nothing in any sort of investment. He is 80 years old. His health is not great. We recently moved him near us so my wife and I can take care of him. And the other day I was talking to him and he mentioned, hey, what I think about buying some gold? And I was like, whoa, pump the brakes on that. I was able to talk him off the ledge on that. I did talk to him about investment in stocks and he has no interest in it. But I just want to help him out the best that he can. I will be managing or I'll be the beneficiary along with my brother. We'll be splitting everything even, even selling the house, selling his car, just any assets that he has. And I just want to set, I want to set him up for the remaining part of his life, but also set us up for the future just to, to do this very smartly.

[C]

Yeah. Well, here's what I would say to him if he called in. Okay. I would tell him that usually when it comes to emotions around money, when we make big decisions, that's not really a great guide because our emotions can take us places that are not. It's not reality. So understanding reality is really big. And so understanding that the market is a safe place to put our money, I mean, it is when you look at the long term track record and the money that would be going into this, these accounts, if he did choose to invest them, he wouldn't even need them or see them because he has a paid off house. It sounds like he's a pretty low maintenance guy. He makes Enough through what you were saying in his streams of income to pay his bills. And he's 80. Not in the best health of what you're saying. He's not going to go, like, climb Mount Rushmore or whatever? Mount Rushmore? No, you don't climb Mount Rushmore ever.

[A]

I mean, I guess you could. I don't think it's legal.

[C]

President's faces. We don't do that. No, we don't want that. No. But. But he's not going to be going all over the world traveling is what it sounds like, and doesn't have a desire to. So because of all of those things, the reason he would put money in is to continue the legacy at which he's built, which is pretty fantastic. What he has set up already is incredible. So the reason he would do it is to pass on to future generations and to make more money. I mean, that would be it. Right. But I also would say on the other side of this, if he's 80 and he's not in the best health, and if putting money in the market stresses him out and loses sleep over it, that's not worth it either. He's fine. He's fine. He doesn't have to. He doesn't have to do this. He's going to be fine.

[A]

So, yeah, I don't think you're going to, like, scare him into investing. Be like, dude, you're going to run out of money. He clearly is.

[C]

Yeah. So it's a. It's either a. Okay. My knowledge and my reason why has changed. So now I'm going to choose to do something differently, like put the money in. But again, I mean, we've talked to elderly people on this show and it terrifies them. And we always say, if you're fine financially, it's not worth it. That is not worth it to be. To lose sleep at night for a reason. You don't need to. You don't need to. You're fine. So that would be the two sides of the coin. I think he should, because I think it's a wise thing financially.

[A]

You can use like an investment calculator and show him the track record of the S&P 500 and show him how he could have 2.6 million instead of 1.3. I don't know that he's going to be impressed. I think he might be like, I'm fine. Who cares? So here's the truth. He might pass away. You inherit this, and then you grow this money the way you want to.

[B]

Correct? Yeah.

[A]

I don't Know that his, in his remaining lifetime that you're going to be able to change an 80 year old's mind on how he views money in the world. Yeah, but you can steer him away from scams and traps and commodities that will not actually be.

[B]

And we have, and, and that was the gold. And I said, listen, if, if you want to put money in gold, imagine, you know, like Dave says, put in the middle of the living room, light it on fire. Are you willing to lose that much money?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know, so. Awesome.

[C]

Yeah, that's good.

[B]

When, I mean when I do acquire this, since none of it is in investments. Well, the 200 in the thrift savings plan, but for the most part we sell the house. That's cash. Everything else is cash. Will I be also looking at taxes on this since I'll be inheriting it or you know, I'll just, or just get with The SmartVestor Pro1, stuff like that.

[A]

I believe it would just go against his estate. And so as long as you know he doesn't have liabilities and you're the beneficiary on these accounts, I don't believe that you would be paying taxes on that because you're not selling off a stock and so there's no capital gains here to be paid. If it was in a traditional account and taxes haven't been paid on the growth, then you might be liable for taxes. But I would get in touch with a, a tax attorney and if he's. Does he have any professionals working with him in his life across any of this tax financial advisors.

[B]

He just moved and he needs, he said he needs to go to a lawyer and get his estate. Not as a state. The will all redone and everything with the new state.

[A]

So he's at least willing to do that.

[B]

He is and him and I have got a fantastic relationship and we're actually, he's very open to talking about this with me because he wants to know that not only is everything going to be handled correctly, but also he wants to know that I know what to do with it too.

[A]

That's wonderful. Well, I was gonna say it might, it'll be worth seeing if he would sit down. When you go with him and sit down with a smartvestor pro, you connect with one on our website and just have an outside professional look at it and maybe they'll convince him of, hey, you have a lot of money sitting on the sidelines. You're losing purchasing power every day. Inflation is eating away at this. You could really do something with this Money to leave a legacy. And that might convince him. And maybe he does some of the money over time. He does 50,000 this year, another 50,000 next year. He gets more comfortable with it. And over time, we start moving these two investments.

[B]

Yeah. And one of the things I was concerned with him for was that some of this money is not FDIC insured. Maybe at a minimum, we move that over to something so awesome.

[A]

Oh, 100%. Yeah. Thanks for the call, man. We're seeing more. More and more of this, for sure of just.

[C]

And he sounds amazing, Martin.

[A]

I mean, what a great job.

[C]

Yeah. And just the fact that he'll even dialogue with his son. There's so many.

[A]

And be willing to create a will.

[C]

And talk about the est. Honestly, we talked to so many adult children who say, like, my parents will not do X, Y and Z or they're having to take care of them. I mean, so the fact that. Yeah, you. You hear something like this, like, man, just incredible. Absolutely amazing.

[A]

We got a call, I think it was yesterday, and he was like, hey, my dad won't make a will. We have 10 siblings. He has a ton of real estate.

[C]

Oh, man.

[A]

And he refuses because he thinks Jesus is going to come back before he dies.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

What an M. Night Shyamalan twist that was. And you're like, how do I convince this guy? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what information he has. He somehow knows when he's going to die and when Jesus is coming back. Those are two pieces of information that nobody knows.

[C]

I think you should just climb Mount Rushmore and call it a day.

[A]

You have a better chance of climbing Mount Rushmore. That is so true. But think about it. If you truly love your family, why would you leave it to chance? Why would you leave it to the government to decide what happens?

[C]

And the relational strain it causes on the family of them trying to make the decisions and decide, and it ends up tearing families apart. It really does. So the clearer you can be, the more communication you can be or you can have before you're passing. Like, that is such a gift to your family. It really is. And it sounds morbid and it's not fun to talk about, but, golly, it is such a gift for everyone to know exactly what's going on. And. Yeah. And when you die, you just say, okay, press play. On the other hand, everybody knows. And it's. Yeah. And it's smooth.

[A]

I mean, you said it much nicer than I would. I like to say, if you hate your Family don't have a will and make it as confusing as possible. If that's what the route you want.

[C]

If that's what you want. If that's what you want. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I don't know. It's interesting, though, the people that truly don't even want to engage on any level of a conversation when it comes to death. And it's. And again, it's not fun to talk about. But you guys having life insurance, having a will in place, like these things.

[A]

Making sure your beneficiaries are correct.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, genuinely, it's little things. It is. And it takes some work. And again, it's not always fun to think about, but that it's irresponsible not to do that. If you have a family, well, then.

[A]

You run into the issue of, well, now they can't cognitively make these decisions. And we never got financial power of attorney. Now you have a real nightmare on your hands.

[C]

Yes. So just do the work. Be an adult. It's not always fun, but we gotta do things that aren't fun.

[A]

Sometimes I can't wait till I'm 80 and senile. My kids are trying to tell me what to do. That's gonna be a good time.

[C]

You're gonna be the grumpiest.

[A]

I'm already there.

[C]

Poor Mia and Henry.

[A]

I'll just be settling into who I was made to become. That's all that'll happen.

[C]

As a mom, I plan for everything. I plan the budgets, snacks, lunches, backup outfits in the car for the unexpected. I mean, everything. Because moms handle a million details every day. So don't skip one of the biggest ones. What happens to your family if you're not there tomorrow? You guys, a lot of people put off making a will because it can feel a little scary. But here's what we all need to realize. Planning for the future isn't fear. It's love. And creating a will turned out to be one of the most loving, protective things I could ever do for my family. And Mama Bear legal forms makes it so easy. No lawyers, no stress. Just an online process that you can finish in about 20 minutes. And now my husband and I both sleep better because we have taken care of the stuff that really matters. And it isn't scary. It's wise. It's what moms do. So if you've been putting off making a will, I totally get it. But don't wait anymore, because you're a mom first, which means you're always planning. So go to mamabearlegalforms.com and use promo code RAMSEY to save 20% mamabearlegalforms.Com code RAMSEY.

[A]

All right, the all new everydollar is here and now. It's way more than just our world class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. And the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the app store or Google Play. Jenna is in Boston. Up next. What's going on, Jenna? How can we help?

[B]

Hi, thanks for taking my call. My husband and I recently have become just huge fans and so we have an employment for a will. We went through the life insurance you guys recommend.

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

So proud of you guys.

[C]

Good job. Well done.

[B]

We did the budgeting app and we. So we've been comfortable. Like, we've been fine, but we're in debt. So I feel like we've just been paying our minimums and going along with it. And through your show, I've been getting like that sick feeling that we are doing this all wrong. So that's what kind of encouraged this. And we do. Okay. But we have about nine combined $98,000 of debt because of mostly student loans. I have about 36,000. My husband has maybe 50.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And then $10,000, give or take in like medical bills, credit cards and stuff. Okay, so.

[C]

Any cars, Jenna? Or is that just.

[B]

No, no cars.

[C]

Perfect. Okay.

[B]

No. No car payments. So with the small like 10,000, I feel like we can do real quick. And then it's getting into the student loans. So we budgeted it and I kind of mapped out. It looks like we could say, have it paid off in about under three years, it looked like, I think. So.

[A]

What do you guys make with that though?

[B]

Combined somewhere around 230 typically.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

All right.

[B]

So the reason originally my plan was like a five year plan. I really wanted to knock down faster than that. So my husband puts like 6% of his salary and he makes more than me in his 401k. And so we talked about him stopping doing that. So I make less than. But I like have hold the benefits and things like that. And I work for a really big investment firm and I get a 7% match. So I do have a decent 401k with them. Do I stop getting like, do I. Should I stop putting money in that even though I'm getting that 7% from them by doing it?

[C]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah. All of your focus needs to Be on paying off this debt. And Jenna, I would, I would challenge you guys because of what you make. I would think you would only need a posit for maybe two years because I think you could pay this off in a year. You guys make $230,000. You have a hundred thousand. What if you guys lived on $95,000 a year and you did nothing with your life?

[B]

So I definitely think we need to cut back our spending and we could pay things off a lot sooner. But the biggest. So we have, we own a house. We have our mortgage. Our mortgage is about 2,600amonth, which for us is affordable right now. That's fine. But we also have a son, so we pay for daycare, which is about 300 a week or so. So about 1200amonth. So that's kind of where the bigger expenses are.

[A]

But you guys are bringing home what, like 15k a month. What do you, what's your take home pay?

[B]

When I was doing the math in the budgeting app originally it showed like 11,000 or so, but I think that was before we touched the health insurance. 401K.

[A]

What does he make a year?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's his gross income?

[B]

About 155 without his bonus.

[A]

Okay, and then what do you make?

[B]

I make about 70 without overtime and without my bonus.

[A]

Okay, so we'll call it. Can we call it 80?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Give or take around.

[A]

And you're doing 7%. So here's the, the amount that you would free up to throw towards your debt per year. You're looking at 99,300 plus 5,600. That's pretty sizable. So you're talking $15,000 a year. That could go toward your debt on top of all the margin you have. And that's why we're saying what if you pause for one year, go down to zero and you come back guns a blazing in 2027. Investing 15%. Both of you investing 15%.

[B]

You're.

[A]

You will well make up for any lost employer match. Investing 15% for the rest of your life versus the current track, which is, I guess we'll just invest up to the match forever because we're going to have this debt for a long time. So do you see the intensity that we're after here? And by the way, going down to 0% investing is going to make you both mad, isn't it? Mad at your debt?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely not.

[A]

Mad at each other. So that's going to make you get out of debt faster because you want to get back to investing. And so it's kind of like a carrot you dangle in front of you saying, man, I want to get back to that. And that's going to fire you guys. Up, up.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So it's part math, part psychology that.

[B]

Off with daycare and the mortgage in a year.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think daycare in the mortgage is your problem here. I think it's the other things that are.

[C]

Yeah. Cuz that's just that added up to 3,800 out of 11 grand.

[A]

So it's like, can we live off of five for the rest and throw the other amount?

[C]

And that would get y' all paid off in a year and nine months more than just two and a half. Right. So like maybe make it a year and a half. See if someone can take on a job, you know, part time job for a couple of, couple of months. Bring in and we talk to people making side hustles and they make two grand a month just on side hustles. If, you know, if you guys did that for even just, you know, three months or something, right. I'm like, it's just crazy what all of this can compound and create. And when you guys do that and then you get an emergency fund in place, then yeah, you are, you are good to go. But it's just the decision you guys have to make. And everyone does that, does this and chooses to pay off their debt is the more intense you are, the more you sacrifice, the faster you get out. And so it's just a decision of are we going to just live like crazy people for a year and four months and get this just taken care of and it's just insane, but it's done.

[A]

But. Or do you want to drag it out for three years or do you.

[C]

Want to drag it out for three or four years?

[A]

Life's going to happen. You're going to get comfortable, complacent and go, well, four years is okay. I want you guys to have such an aggressive specific goal to where we go. 98,000, that's 8,166amonth. We have to throw at the debt. We're going to pause investing to free up 1250amonth on top. If you start doing it like that, that makes me believe you'll actually get out of debt in a year.

[C]

And people end up getting out of debt faster than what they originally calculate. Jenna too. Because there's things that you don't see and you don't know, like bonuses or raises, you know, or you pick up this thing or this thing you forgot you had over here and you throw it at the debt. I mean, it's just.

[A]

You're just willing to work harder.

[C]

Yes. Stuff ends up coming up, which is amazing.

[A]

And then you get a promotion and get the bonus because they're like, man, man, Jenna's on fire this month. I don't know what got into her, but she is crushing it. And that, I think, will truly propel you guys into this debt free journey. And then once you're debt free, you're never going to go back and you'll get that emergency fund. Do you guys have savings right now that you could use to start this process?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How much?

[B]

Yeah, we usually have between 5 and 10 in savings.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Oh, that's wonderful.

[A]

So what if you used a bunch of that to knock out the smallest debts right now? Just to kind of kickstart it and say, you know what, this is usually putting skin in the game.

[C]

Yeah. That's like a month or two of not having to pay off debt that you could, you know, subtract from your timeline, which is awesome.

[B]

Yeah, that's not bad. Thank you. Yeah. If you guys could pay off my.

[A]

Husband, is he gonna be convinced? I feel like he's still gonna go, babe, we're not doing that.

[B]

No, he's pretty. The only thing he doesn't like is just the. He's on page with me on all of it. He wants to pay it off. He's kind of dove into it all with me. He's been great. The only thing he likes is having a bit more of an emergency fund than a thousand kids and ST stuff.

[C]

But sure, sure.

[B]

Other than that, like, he's pretty much good to jump into all of it with me.

[C]

Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I'm glad you guys are, you know, on the same page for the most part. And that's a normal fear. We hear that usually from if it's a couple, especially with kids, that is kind of a thing that we get. But the truth is too, if something were to happen and you guys had to pause it at snowball, you have eight grand freed up per month. Do you know what I mean? Like, you guys could get cash really fast if. If something comes up that's more than a thousand, so.

[A]

And again with that emergency fund, that's going to add another fire lit under you, you paus. And you take your savings down, you're going to go, oh, my gosh, we need to get out of debt asap.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's going to again get you out of debt even faster. And so I encourage you guys to go all in on the plan because it works. And if you do it a la carte, like a buffet, it's not going to work as fast. And you're going to say, well, I guess the Ramsey plan doesn't work. No, you just chose your own plan. So just try it our way.

[C]

And let me say though, kudos to you guys. I mean, y' all are at the very front end of all of this. I mean, just even doing all life insurance and the will and the budgeting app, every dollar and everything. Yeah, you guys are doing awesome.

[A]

Love to hear it.

[C]

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[A]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, I'm George Campbell, joined by my co host on Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz. And we're taking your calls at Triple 882-55-5225. Ann is in Jackson, Mississippi. Up next. Ann, welcome to the show.

[B]

Thank you. Thanks for taking my call.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I'm 60 plus years old, starting life over again or supposed to be. Just got divorced. He was the private, he was the breadwinner of the family. We had been putting like 15 away and 401s and savings and all of this, or so I was led to believe. And it turns out we were, he, we weren't and found out about that and affairs and I told him that this wasn't acceptable and he told me I could get out of the house, which I did. It became very abusive very fast. I got an apartment. I dug a hole, got in an apartment, trying to get my life back together. Happen. I didn't. I walked away without nothing from the marriage. We had no kids together. I have two ch. I have a couple of kids from a previous marriage. And my car broke down, and I'm that person. I can't pay my rent this month. I don't know how. I don't know where to turn or what to do. I'm using the everyday budget. When I just put, like, my expenses and everything, it works out okay. But then there's always the other shoe that seems to be dropping, and I can't get ahead and catch a break. And I just really need, like, advice. I've gone back to work, so I have. I'm getting a little bit of income that way, but I'm just, like, terrorized. I just feel like, well, your whole.

[C]

Life has turned upside down completely.

[B]

I. I don't know who to turn to or where to go or what to do.

[C]

Oh, and I'm so sorry. How long were you guys.

[B]

14 years.

[C]

14 years. Okay.

[B]

I'm trying to write. I'm trying to help my daughter raise her two kids, and it's just I. I feel like I'm. I can't breathe. I'm drowning.

[C]

Yeah, well, you're in a. I mean, in a state of grief completely. I mean, it's almost like someone has died, right? Is that feeling. So you are, from an emotional standpoint, turned inside out, which is horrible. I mean, much less a divorce. But the reasons why of the infidelity and the secrets and the lie, I mean, it just seems to just be piling on. And so. And I've heard Dr. John Zaloney talk about this, that, you know, in that case, it's almost like you question yourself. Like, how did I not know? Right? You start to feel like, am I the crazy one?

[A]

A lot of shame and guilt.

[C]

I can't trust myself. Right. And so I just want to free you from all of that, that you made the exact right decision on what you did. And you still have another quarter to go in life, which is amazing, right? Like, you get to now create something totally new. And while it's so scary because you would never have even dreamt of being where you are today, it is the reality. And so it is. What are you gonna do? Literally, one day at a time is kind of where you're at when I'm hearing you talk. And so, okay, so you got nothing in the divorce because there Was nothing. Is that basically it?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Is the divorce finalized?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And no. Did you have an attorney?

[B]

No.

[A]

Why?

[B]

I didn't have. I didn't have money to hire one.

[A]

But you should be getting alimony from this, some spousal support, something, you know, I'm not.

[B]

I'm not entitled to it. The house was in his name because he owned it before the marriage. Was there that. I did talk with an attorney, but.

[A]

No, I just don't see how. You're married for 14 years. He's the breadwinner. And you get zero from this divorce?

[C]

Yeah. Usually there's alimony until you get remarried, if you do. And there's no child support because they're not his kids. So there's. That's probably not. What did the attorney say when you spoke to the attorney?

[B]

He said that I could hire the attorney, hire a forensic accountant to go through to prove everything.

[C]

I mean, but at this point, be.

[B]

Expensive and at this point. And he said that I would, you know, I could spend $10,000 and walk away with nothing.

[C]

Yeah. Which is true. But. But I would be curious on the.

[A]

I still think his future income needs to play a part in this, regardless if he had anything in the bank account. What are you doing now for work and how much do you make?

[B]

I'm on disability because I have a disability. And So I get 2,000 from that and then I'm making about $800 in addition to that.

[A]

And what's your rent every month?

[B]

1075.

[C]

You're making $800 a week or a month in addition? A month doing what? What are you doing.

[B]

Part time? Substitute teacher.

[A]

Okay. And what's the nature of the disability? Is there something where you can't do certain types of work?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Okay. So could you do if you're a substitute teacher that's fairly physical? You got to get up, go there, stand all day. So I'm wondering, can you do something different that pays more, that is more regular and stable?

[B]

I'm looking. I am. I'm looking. I've got applications in. In a lot of different places.

[A]

And why can't you pay rent this month if you have the 2000 in disability plus your 800?

[B]

I put $700 to get my car repaired. Like I said when I moved out, when I got my place in May, I have been one fit in the hole the whole time. I've. I've.

[C]

But what kind of debt? Yeah. And what kind of debt do you have?

[B]

I. I don't have any.

[C]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

So when you say in the hole, are you just saying there's emergencies that come up?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so you have the car repair. Seven hundred. You paid that. What else is on the horizon?

[B]

I'm also helping. I'm also helping my daughter raise her two kids.

[A]

We can't do that right now.

[C]

We can't do that, Ann.

[A]

You're drowning. You don't have a life raft to throw at her.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[C]

When you're saying that, are you saying that you're doing that with your time or what does that mean?

[A]

Or money?

[B]

I'm doing it with my time and helping out with food and things like that because they're with me a lot of the time.

[C]

Okay? So. And I'm telling you. And we can. You can get back to. I know that's your heart, and that's probably where you want to be as a grandmother. I want you to get back to that place. You just can't probably in the next two years. So you need to have a conversation, and your daughter doesn't want you in this situation. Like, what you're describing to us is you can't even pay your rent if.

[A]

You get evicted and you have to live with her.

[C]

Irresponsible. Okay. It's irresponsible to be watching your grandkids right now from a time and money perspective. It just is. Ann, we can get back to that place because I want you to be able to do those things. But right now, we have to get you stable financially. Okay? And so. And your daughter has to understand that I would assume if you came to her and said, I can't pay my rent, Mom. Okay, so then she needs to figure out another plan for herself and her kids for the next 24 months. That's what I would say. So that you have the time and the bandwidth and the money. So, Ann, your first things are food, shelter, utilities, transportation. Those are the only things that get paid. And then beyond that, we have to be upping the end and hopefully with some time bandwidth back from not being super grandma, that we can start funding and actually getting some savings, looking at retirement and starting those steps. But if you hold on the line, Ann, Christian's gonna pick up. We're gonna get you with one of our financial coaches to help walk with you through our next couple of steps. Cause I know that. I mean, I know you probably just feel like you're in a complete fog, because, yeah, it's just horrible. Horrible where you're at, but I know you can get to the other side of this. We have talked to people just like you and your situation, and they get out. The holidays can come with a lot of pressure to spend. Family, friends, Secret Santa at the office. All the things. But y', all, this season should be about peace, not payment. That's a big reason why I love Fairwinds Credit Union. They share the Ramsey values of helping you reach your money goals without debt. And with the Fairwinds Smart Bundle, Ramsey fans get a no fee checking account, a high yield savings to grow your emergency fund, and the exclusive Ramsey Beweird debit card. It says debt is normal. Be weird right there on the front. So every time you use it, it's a reminder that you're doing your money differently. So this Christmas, skip the credit cards and celebrate progress, not payments. Spend with peace of mind, knowing that you're sticking to your budget and staying debt free. And check out the Fairwinds Smart Bundle [e-mail] Ramsey and open up the Smart Bundle and grab your exclusive Ramsey Beware debit card. That's fairwinds.org Ramsey. Fair Winds is federally insured by the NCUA.

[A]

Faith is in Cleveland, Ohio. Up next, Faith, welcome to the show.

[B]

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. My question is, how do I save up for an upcoming wedding while I'm in baby step two? My only debt is my car loan. Cool.

[A]

What's left on the car loan?

[B]

It's about 29,000.

[A]

And what do you make?

[B]

42,000 a year.

[A]

Perfect. We need to get rid of this car, don't we, Faith?

[B]

Yes. I've convinced myself that the car is necessary to keep because my family is very unlucky with cars. We currently have two cars in our driveway that don't run. And I drove no car. I borrowed cars for over a year, and then I bought this car I have, and it's like, fully on warranty and stuff. And I'm like, cool, I'm good to go now. But now it's also taking up a good chunk of my pay. And I'm like.

[C]

As much as you bring home after taxes is what you owe in a car. So we can't do that. Yep, we gotta. We gotta get rid of it. But the good thing is we can always learn how to have better luck with cars and learn how to buy used cars maybe more responsibly, with more intention and know what we're looking for and all of those things, because I don't want you making a really stupid financial decision on quote unquote. We have bad luck. So is there like a Voodoo doll.

[A]

Like did your family was there like an ancient king you.

[C]

A curse that was put on Faith's family. Faith is like, actually probably yes.

[A]

No, I feel that. Okay. What's the wedding gonna cost? What are you looking at right now?

[B]

It's our budget right now is 15. We do have a family member that has set aside 5,000 for us.

[C]

That's nice.

[B]

Family member that has. Huh?

[A]

Does that bring it down to 10?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Perfect.

[A]

And what about the fiance? Are you guys gonna split this 5050 or what?

[B]

We're gonna attempt, I guess. He currently isn't working right now. He's full time in flight school trying to cash flow that with. He's also in the air force, so he uses whatever money he makes from that to cash flow his schooling.

[C]

Smart. That's great.

[A]

When does he finish school?

[B]

He's. If the weather permits, he's supposed to graduate the December after we get married, which we're getting married next September.

[A]

Okay. So we still have a year to deal with all this.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I have tossed around the idea of many times of getting rid of the said car.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

My fear, though, is that I'll get a car because I'll be upside down on the Jeep and I fear that I'll get some cheaper car and it'll immediately break down and then I'll have an expensive repair because that's what's happened. All these other cars I've had.

[A]

Sure. How much are you underwater on what's the car? If you sold a private party, what could you get for it?

[B]

I don't. I haven't looked that up. I know that I bought it in July for 23 and my loan is 29.

[A]

How did that happen? They sold you a $6,000 warranty.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, here's the good news. You can get the money back from that warranty. So you can. You can get the majority. It'll probably prorated, but you can get that money back.

[C]

Back. Okay, that's good news.

[A]

So try that and then see what the car is actually worth. And if you're underwater by a little bit, you can come up with the savings to cover it. Let's say it's a thousand dollars that you'll still owe cars worth 22. You owe 23. For example.

[C]

It was like. Did you buy it brand new or was it. No, it was used. Yeah. Because Jeeps don't have the best resale value.

[A]

Yeah. What. What. What's the model of it?

[B]

It's a wrangler.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So the only reliable car you could find was a Jeep Wrangler. Everything else was a crapshoot. Can we just admit that Faith just wanted a newer Jeep Wrangler?

[B]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[A]

I feel so much better.

[C]

If it was like a Honda Accord, we'd be like, yes, we got it.

[A]

A Jeep Wrangler has. I want this energy, you know, so.

[C]

Faith wants that vibe.

[A]

The good news is we can get you a reliable car that's $14,000 that's not going to be riddled with repairs. And here's what you need to do. Research the make, model, year, look up what the common recalls are, common repairs are, and then pay for a pre purchase inspection from a mechanic that you trust. It's going to cost you maybe 100, 150 bucks, but that's going to give you the peace of mind that you're not buying a lemon. And so this bad luck was really just impulsive car purchases out of desperation when we didn't do the research to make sure we weren't buying a lemon. So I want to encourage you that you can break the cycle just by pausing and being a little bit intentional.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So what you could do, Faith, is again, you probably are underwater on it a little bit. Probably not a ton because it's used and it's only been since July. Is that what you said? July? Yeah. So I mean, you may be able to get, I don't know, private sale. You might be able to, or I guess if you get the warranty back. Do you got to go back to the dealer shift?

[A]

Yeah. Wondering how would that work?

[B]

I also work at the dealer I bought it at.

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

Well, that makes this real.

[A]

Would they take it back for what you bought it for or maybe a little bit less?

[B]

I mean, maybe if it's your employer.

[A]

I would hope you tell them, hey, I can't afford this.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Which is so. I mean, I hate to say it, Faith, there's like all these Instagram videos of people that work at car dealerships and they're like bragging about their car.

[A]

Payments, how broke they are.

[C]

Yeah, all of it. So yeah, you'll be kind of of an uphill battle there a little bit, but so worth the conversation. Cuz. Yeah, if they can just be a flat.

[A]

Like do they sell $14,000 cars at this dealership?

[C]

I'm just scared Faith doesn't have $14,000. I mean, do you have any, do you have any money? Do you have any money saved?

[B]

I only have my thousand dollar starter emergency fund.

[A]

Okay. So you get out of this you free up the payment, which is how much? The payment plus the insurance.

[B]

It's 5:30amonth.

[A]

Okay. Okay. So you'll at least free that up. If you just put that in a savings account for a year. That's 6,000 bucks. Well over that.

[C]

Yeah. That's without having a car, though.

[A]

Could you get a loan from your credit union to cover the difference? Plus some for a little bit. Like, it's gonna be. It's not gonna be a super nice car compared to what you're driving now, but it'll get you from A to B until the wedding at least.

[B]

Okay. I guess I could throw this in there. I could probably do that. But my fiance also has two very old trucks that both still run.

[A]

Yay. Ding, ding, ding.

[C]

Faith is now a truck driver. She is driving a truck. It's great. Do it. Do it. This is like the biggest ego play, though, for most people is the car to go from what you're going to to an old truck. You're like, oh, golly, it's gonna be a ego play. But I'm telling you, Faith, when that money is freed up up, you save it. You get a side hustle. Because I think. I think you. And I think even though your fiance's in flight school, I think at night he could drive you. Like, you guys could save up 2 to $3,000 a month and easily fund this wedding really quick. And I would just keep going until you're married and you guys start off marriage debt free. Start off marriage with actually a couple of thousand dollars or more above the wedding that when it's all said and done, you guys have some money to start out your emergency funds with. And yeah, you guys are on, like, a really great path financially. It's just putting the ego aside for a bit.

[A]

Just one year.

[C]

That's what it is.

[A]

You deserve a Jeep wrangler, Faith, but you deserve to be debt free even more. Yeah. And so one day, it's your third Jeep, and you've had bad luck with the other two Jeeps, and you decided, well, it's not the Jeep's fault.

[C]

It's not your identity. Faith is not a Jeep. This is not your identity, Faith. Just say that over and over again. This is not. Because when you get in that truck, you're like, I am not a truck.

[A]

This is not to get rid of the rubber ducks. If you're going to drive that truck, that's going to hurt. They can't do the Jeep wave anymore.

[C]

Oh, yeah, that's true. You'll get Back there, though. I think it's a good goal. But I want you to do it the wise way. I mean, honestly, making $42,000 a year before taxes, what you bring home is close to what you owe on this car. I mean, like, that's.

[A]

And that thing's not down in value. What's your interest rate on this?

[B]

7%.

[A]

I'm just shocked the dealership lets you do this. Like, the debt to income ratio just hurts my soul.

[C]

Soul.

[A]

Who's the. Do you know the salesperson? Well, can you talk to them?

[C]

Yeah, it's probably Faith.

[A]

Faith is the salesperson.

[C]

I don't know. Yeah, well, I will. Yeah, I would. And again, it's going to take a lot of humility to go in there, but it is worth it. How old are you guys, Faith?

[B]

I'm actually going to be 25 on Thanksgiving Day.

[C]

Okay. Coming up. Awesome. Yeah. If you guys can start getting these habits in place and you can start actually living this out. Doubts. And I'm talking about the. The humility, like putting the what I want and what feels good and what feels normal aside and you start living in a little bit of this discomfort. I'm telling you, that discomfort is going to cause you guys to persevere in life. Like when we just live comfortably 24 7. And that's what debt helps you do.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

I want it. And I'm going to just live there. We actually don't gain any level of perseverance and growth grit. We just kind of sit in what feels right and then we get screwed financially. So let's be smart, Faith. When you guys can get this, this young, I'm telling you, y' all could be multi millionaires. When you start investing, you start living on less than you make. Like it is insane what you guys can do, especially when debt is not in the picture.

[A]

Hey, guys, George here. You know I hate debt. And that includes sleep debt. I've been there. Fatigue, low energy, brain fog. And that's why I switched to Casper. My Casper mattress helps me sleep easier, cooler and deeper. And now every bedroom in my house has one. On top of that, Casper ships free. Comes with a 100 night trial. And if you don't love it, they'll come pick it up. So let's ditch the sleep debt and build sleep wealth. Go to Casper.com Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 30% off all mattresses and up to 35% off everything else. That's Casper.com Ramsey promo code, Ramsey exclusions app Foreign. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Open phones at 888 825-5225. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? We've got a quick quiz to check your progress and get a personalized plan. Simply head to the Show Notes, click on the link titled Are youe On Track with the Baby Steps? And complete the quiz. Drew is in Kansas City. Up next. What's going on, Drew? Hey.

[B]

So I really want to get an electric bike, but I still live at home at 28 with my wife.

[A]

Whoa. What happened?

[B]

Nothing, really. We just got married a couple of months ago. We were looking at getting a home prior to the marriage, but decided to hold off due to the interest rates, and my parents offered for us to stay with them to save some extra money.

[A]

Okay, how much are you saving currently per month by living with them? Like, what's actually going into a savings account?

[B]

So 3,000amonth is going into the savings account, and then I have other money being set aside into, like, an employee stock purchase program.

[A]

Do you have any debt?

[B]

No debt. Two cars paid off. 2020 Camry. 2009 Mazda 6.

[C]

Good for you guys. What do you.

[B]

What do you guys make year Combined? A little bit over $100,000.

[C]

Drew, why aren't you renting somewhere?

[B]

We just wanted to be able to buy a house and not pour more money.

[C]

You'd rather live with your parents than not rent? I'm so.

[B]

Situation is not bad at all.

[C]

Can we just be newlyweds? Nothing in me wants to be with parents or in laws for an extended period of time. Do we agree?

[A]

Are there some codependency issues going on here, Drew?

[B]

I don't believe so, no. We're just trying to save as much money as we can.

[C]

Okay, I know, Drew, but do you. I mean, is there any, like. Is there any part of, like, the dignity in y' all that are like, I just want to get up in the morning and make cereal and not open the refrigerator and look at the milk. And, like, there's my mom in the kitchen making eggs in a robe. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, y' all are married.

[A]

Not ideal. What is your. How does your wife feel about this?

[B]

She actually doesn't mind it. We have a great relationship with my family.

[A]

Okay, but you can have a great relationship with your family and also not live with them anymore.

[C]

I just want y' all to be adults. And you called about an electric bike.

[A]

Drew, like, you have a vehicle.

[B]

You gotta have fun while you're young.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

But you can't Tell me you're doing all this because you really want to be a homeowner and then we're blowing money on toys.

[B]

That's a valid point.

[A]

How old are you two?

[B]

28.

[A]

Okay, let's play this out. What would a one bedroom cost in the area? You?

[B]

$1,200.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I just imagine you. I'm so sorry. Can we just be honest? Like, I love you guys. Like, if we were out having a beer, I think we would really get along. I just can't imagine Drew, right? And your electric bike pulling into your parents driveway.

[A]

Honey, I'm home.

[B]

No, Mom, I'm home.

[C]

I'm home from my electric bike ride around the neighborhood. Like, Drew, you're a man. You're a man. Like, you got this. Like, you gotta like. Come on, come on. Anything. Anything. Nothing. All right, Okay. I mean, does that not kind of make you laugh?

[B]

We have a large sum of money.

[C]

Saved up, so go rent an apartment.

[A]

How much money do you guys have saved currently?

[B]

So right now we have about $60,000.

[A]

Drew, what's the goal? What is the number? What's the number? Before you go. All right, mama, them out.

[B]

The goal is just to move out at the beginning of next year. So we're planning on saving 3,000amonth until then while we look at a house and then find that and move out.

[A]

Okay. What's the. What's an electric bike cost these days?

[B]

It's $4,000. It's like a dirt bike, but it's electric.

[A]

Dude, the motocross dreams need to go for now. Like, we need. We need to put $4,000 towards our deposit for our department.

[C]

You can afford bike both, Drew. Like, buy the bike and move out. Like you can do both.

[A]

How about this? If you buy the bike, can we force you to move out tomorrow?

[B]

I feel like that's a fair deal, John.

[C]

Yes, that's fair.

[A]

Congratulations. You're the owner.

[C]

I think that's it.

[A]

I think that's it.

[C]

True, you can buy the bike, but you have to move out of your parents house. And I mean, please. I'm telling you.

[A]

Real question, though. Does she fold the laundry?

[B]

She does not fold the laundry. I do all the laundry.

[A]

Proud of you. That's our boy. That's our boy, Drew.

[C]

It's just good for y'. All. You just. Y' all need to spread your wings. You're leave and cleave. Y' all gotta figure out how to pay the bills and get the water turned on in the new apartment. Like, y' all need to be Self sufficient.

[A]

Yeah. Jumping from living with mom to being a homeowner is just too big of a gap. It's gonna be a rude awakening.

[C]

Well, yeah. Well. And I guess I think I would feel a little bit better about it if y' all were like, we're $300,000 in student loan debt, and we're both lawyers, and we're about to get our law. I don't know, like, if there was some, like, big reason, but there's. There's not even that. It's just, to quote, unquote, save money. And. And I think your dignity is more than that. I mean, genuinely, you and your wife together, I think you just learn a lot when you are not sharing a wall with your parents.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. And you'll still have lived alone before and with roommates, so it's not like it's our first time, you know, spreading our wings and flying, but.

[C]

Well, it will be as a couple. It is as a. And y' all are gonna now have to share a bathroom, and you're gonna have to, like. Yeah. I mean, you. Yeah, you guys are. It's a different situation than the dudes living in the rental house together, so. No, it's your wife. And, yeah, y' all will. Y' all will run into things that you're not running into relationally when you are out on your own, which is a good thing. It's how it should be. It's how it should be. So, yeah. Drew, get the bike and. And. And apply for an apartment this afternoon. Afternoon.

[A]

And fly away on that bike to your new apartment. Make sure they have e bike parking at the new apartment. That's the big question. Where are you gonna park that thing if you gotta store it? This might be a nightmare.

[C]

I don't know. The visual. I just can't.

[A]

There it is.

[C]

Into the driveway.

[A]

Right into the driveway. I'm home.

[C]

Oh, man.

[A]

I love this so much.

[C]

Y' all are awesome, though. And you've been very smart financially. I will give you all that. Y' all have a lot of money.

[A]

You're debt free.

[C]

Y' all are very capable people. I think that's what's driving me crazy about it, is you're so capable.

[A]

If it slows you down six months to buy a house, I'm okay with that. For the sake of your dignity.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yes. That's it. I know.

[A]

All right. Nick is in Kansas City as well. Maybe Nick knows. Drew, what's going on? Nick? I can ride bikes together, drink cahoots.

[B]

Not Much I do not know, Drew.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Sorry to say. He sounds like a great guy.

[A]

I'll connect you to.

[B]

So my question is, my wife and I are recently called in to do some mission.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

And we are in the waiting period between the call and going now. God hasn't given us a timeline as to when that call is, but some financial stuff has been brought to my mind as I'm kind of processing this call. So I've worked with one of your Ramsey pros as far as real estate goes, and I know the value of your house to sell. But we also have some student loans and some other debt as well. My question is, should we sell the house knowing that we are leaving the country to be called admissions and live in a renter's market, knowing full well that the rent. That the rent we will pay is two to three times what we are paying for our mortgage right now, or do we continue to tack our debt aggressively, as we have been doing for years, and wait to pay off the rest of that debt when we sell the house and leave?

[A]

I'm confused. If you're doing mission work, are you. How much are you getting paid for that?

[B]

So I am. Here's the thing. If I am a disabled veteran as well, I'm sitting at 90% right now, which is around 2820. The country that we are called to. This is more than five times the median income for a family our size to be able to.

[C]

Okay, great. In the country, what you will make on disability, you guys can cover your costs living.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

That's great.

[A]

I was just confused. You said we're still going to aggressively tackle our debt. I've just never heard of a missionary.

[C]

Being able to do that well before. They're not. They're not on the field now. So today we're not on the field yet. And when. And do you know timeline when you will.

[B]

No, we don't.

[C]

I would just stay in the home. Nick. I would say, actually, you could sell the house to Drew because he's looking for perfect. But no, I would. I would stay in the house, aggressively paying off your debt. And then when you guys are in a position to move and start the missions, I would put the house for sale. Do you guys have family in the area?

[B]

We have my wife's parents, but the relationship's kind of strange.

[C]

Okay. I was gonna say because if you guys go, you're gonna have to sell this house kind of long distance. You'll just need a great realtor. And then when you sell the house the equity of the house. You could pay off the remaining debt, but I would stay in the house, continue to aggressively pay off debt. Yeah, I would do that. I would just stay in the house, aggressively pay off debt. And then when you guys move, sell the house. Even if it's kind of a longdistance purchase, I would do that.

[A]

I like that plan. I wouldn't hang on to it while living across the world. Long term, you already know the power of generosity and the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. That's what preborn does. And you can trust them to do it. Well, they don't just offer free ultrasounds. They support pregnancy clinics across the country with ultrasound machines, training grants and evangelism tools. They're faithful with each dollar so moms in crisis can see the life in their wombs and hear the truth that brings eternal life. Because here's the thing. When a mom sees her baby on that ultrasound screen, she chooses life 80% of the time. And your gift of just $28 covers the cost of one ultrasound. Or if you're able, you can purchase an ultrasound machine through preborn and have it placed their clinics so women will choose life for years. Your donation brings hope and truth when mothers feel alone and fear is loud. So I'm asking you to give to preborn today, even just $28 to provide one ultrasound. Go to preborn.com Ramsey or call 855-601-2229 because every baby saved is more than a life preserve served, it's a life changed. That's preborn.com Ramsey do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're still not getting anywhere? You're not alone. Maybe you've made changes, you had a few wins, but something still feels off. Well, it's not because you failed. It's because money isn't just math. It's emotional. And that emotional fight can quietly sabotage your progress. And that's exactly what Jade Warshaw's new book, what no One Tells yous About Money is All about. It's the first Ramsey book that takes an honest, in depth look at the emotional side of money and gives you practical tools to make progress for good. So pre order now for $24.99 and you'll get over 100 bucks in free bonus items like the audiobook, early access to the ebook, an exclusive video from Jade on financial checkup and a book exclusive three online book club with a live Q and A with Jade. So Pre order today ramseysolutions.com store. If you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcasts, you can click the link in the description of this episode. All right, Renee is in Miami. Up next. What's going on, Renee?

[B]

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And we are struggling right now with deciding if my daughter is going to go to graduate school or not and if the ROI on, you know, the fees and the cost of graduate school is going to benefit her.

[C]

Very nice. What's she studying?

[B]

She is studying business and entrepreneurship. She's a great student. She went to a very expensive four years of undergrad that was all covered with merit scholarships. So, yeah.

[C]

Great golly.

[B]

You're doing amazing.

[C]

Yeah. That's so awesome.

[A]

So why the grad degree?

[B]

She's really liking the classes, to be completely honest. She doesn't have anything lined up yet as far as work goes. So I think it's kind of weighing on her and I know how early it is. I have another child that already went through all this, so it's very early. She shouldn't be worried. But I think this is kind of her secondary plan. And we're trying to, you know, we're just trying to weigh the benefits here. If this is what she. I think she really wants to go. She loves school. She loves.

[C]

I'm sure she does. I'd rather go to school than into the real world. Right. I mean, yeah, I'd rather kick the.

[A]

Cane down the road. Applying for jobs is a real buzzkill.

[B]

That's right. I'd like to go back if I could.

[A]

So who has the money to pay for grad school?

[B]

So that will be on her.

[A]

And how is she gonna pay for it with no job?

[C]

Scholarship? I mean, she's smart, obviously. Is there any program?

[B]

Yep. She did get a merit scholarship for school, which was a surprise. We didn't know that was coming. Just. That just happened this week. I think it's going to be the one year. It's a 10 month program. She's already got a couple classes under her belt for it, so it's only going to be 10 months.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

They're looking at about 75,000 for the whole thing. For the whole year. She got 30 in scholarship, so I can probably help her with 10 or we're probably looking at around 30,000. Who's we?

[A]

Well, as in, you know, student loan debt.

[B]

Me and her. Her and I. Student loan debt for the grad program. Oh, yeah. She doesn't have any debt for anything undergrad or anything else in her life.

[A]

For someone who loves Business. This would be a terrible business plan if I walked into the bank. Hey, listen, I can't get a job in business after I went to school for four years. I need $30,000 to study more business. I think that's the problem. Problem.

[B]

I know, I know.

[A]

What if she just got a job and used. I'd rather her take $30,000 and go to Europe and experience culture than go to another year of grad school to hope that a job appears. What is that? The heart of her loving business and entrepreneurship. Does she want to start a business?

[B]

Yes, she's in the process.

[A]

So she really thinks, why not invest money into the business she wants to start? Start? Yeah, I'd rather you take your 10,000.

[C]

It's a $30,000 kick the can down the road for 10 months. And then what's going to happen, Renee? She's gonna have to apply for jobs. 10. I mean, that's a 10 month later. Again, I feel like if not that, I might not. My answer wouldn't change on the student loan portion. But there's a part of me that's like, okay, a three year thing, whatever. You get all these certificate, you get this one thing and it kind of narrows down a path and that gets you like this, this is just 10 months. Like you could have a, grow a baby and have a human in that amount of time. Like, do what I'm saying. Like, it's not that long, it's very short. So the same problem, and it's her that's going to follow her 10 months later, she's not changing. So to go $30,000 to basically be the same person and have the same problem, no, thank you. I'd rather come out financially on top and go and deal with the fear and the problem of not being able to find the job. Job, then go and have that fear and problem not having a job and be $30,000 in debt.

[B]

I know. So she's averaging it out in her mind that the Undergrad was around 375,000. Worst.

[C]

Holy crap. Well then take that knowledge and go get a job.

[A]

I'm sorry, but if you can't get a job after all of that, then what's the point of anything?

[B]

I know.

[A]

What did she learn over four years?

[C]

So it's a, it's a common thing we see in this, in that you don't know what to do next. So you just go to school and then you make really bad financial decisions. And it takes years, years to get out of this. And it's not worth it that is not worth it because nothing is really going to change in 10 months.

[A]

If she loves textbooks and homework, let's go ahead and buy her a textbook. But we don't need to go $30,000 in debt to do it. That's the truth.

[C]

Seriously, Renee, that would not.

[A]

Real entrepreneurs. And they'll tell you, you, you don't need an entrepreneurship degree. You need tenacity. You need to have a good idea. You need to know how to serve people well to create something called revenue. And so she needs to sink her teeth into that. So if you want to honestly give your ten grand to invest in her business idea and you become the bank and you're like, hey, I'm willing to invest in this idea because I believe in it. Or you even come up with a.

[C]

Business plan or even help support her for a few months while she goes and interns somewhere, right. And doesn't get paid paid help her there. And then six months later it's like, okay, now she does have to apply. But now she at least has on her resume that actually real business leaders and people actually look at which is experience, which looks better than a 10 month program. I mean, honestly, if they knew that she was working in a field in that business and being able to plug in like that, to me, well, she's.

[A]

Going to become what they call overqualified because they're going to go, listen, you have an MBA and you have no job experience. We can't hire you. That's my fear. And so I would rather her go do something, get some experience. Maybe she tries to start her own thing. Maybe she ends up being, you know, an executive at a company somewhere, I don't know. But I just know grad school is not the next step she needs to take.

[C]

And again, if she had a full ride scholarship and that's what she chose to do, that's, I mean, to me that's a different story. It just makes no financial sense. No financial sense to go $30,000 in the, to deal with the exact same problem she's going to deal with. And to your point, at the very beginning of this call, Renee, which was so wise. You said it. She still has time. I know this is really early because it's not till May. I mean, yes, right. By the time. Oh my gosh, is she living with you?

[B]

Yeah, well, no, she's been, you know, in another state for the last four years. She's an athlete too, so she's going to be up there year round.

[C]

Good for her. She sounds awesome. Like she really does. I just don't want this decision to put her back. Back financially for three to three years, you know, is what it could be. So I think, as your. As her mom, I think you're really wise, and I think you can keep encouraging her to apply. And what's causing it is. It sounds like it's more running away from reality because of fear than, oh, I actually really love this one program, and I can't. You know what I mean? Well, I know she loves school, so maybe she does love it, but maybe.

[A]

She should work at a certain school. She loves school so much as she could get a job at a university.

[C]

Yeah, she could work at the school for a year and see what they'll pay her.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know if that's what. What's driving her. I think it's a little bit of everything. She's just trying to figure it out. Her brother's got his mba, you know, so she's like, you know, there's a lot of other little factors.

[A]

She sounds competitive, but I do agree.

[B]

Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Exactly.

[A]

She gets that from her mom, probably. Well, you raised a great daughter. I'm glad you're calling in with this question. I hope you can convince her. Do you think she'll be convinced to avoid this?

[C]

Well, because you're not gonna. You're not signing anything. Renee, as her mom, do not co. Sign.

[A]

If she does this on her own volition, we can't stop her. She's an adult. But I hope that you have influence over her life.

[B]

Right? I do, and that's exactly it. We're. We're. We're right there on that balance beam. And, you know, I think she'd be fine without it. I really do. So I'm. I'm hoping we can, you know, we can just decide to. To start working. Start working on something else.

[A]

Work is scary.

[C]

I think that's the smart thing.

[A]

That's a tough one, especially in this job market. It's not a job market where you just leave college and everyone's knocking on your door to hire you.

[C]

No, no, it's. It takes a lot. And you. And it's in a lot of who you know. Ken Coleman talks about this a lot. Yes. Who. You know, the connection. I mean, all of that is really big.

[A]

Matters more than the piece of paper and where you went to school.

[C]

And you can't just apply online and they just look at resumes. You usually have to get your foot in the door another way. So it does take some creativity. For sure. But she sounds smart. I think she could do it.

[A]

I hope we talked her off the ledge of grad school for the sake of grad school. If we did that, we did one good deed for the day today. Rachel.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books.

[C]

Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz and I've got great news for you. The Ramsey Christmas cash giveaway is here. We are giving away $500 every week plus a grand prize of $5,000 in cash. Listen, you can enter daily to boost your chances of winning and there's no purchase necessary. Just go to ramseysolutions.comgiveaway. that's ramseysolutions.comgiveaway. good luck, you guys.

[A]

Welcome back to the welcome to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by best selling author Rachel Cruz. Open phones at 888-255-225. Ashley is in Idaho. Up next. What's going on? Ashley, hi.

[B]

Thank you for taking my call.

[A]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[B]

I have a question. I have a daughter that just turned 21 and she has a horse. And we her parents. Parents pay the $400 a month in boarding.

[A]

Tell me more.

[C]

George. George. And horses are not a good. Yeah, yeah, okay, keep going, Ashley. I'm just preparing your heart.

[B]

This is her, her life. She's been riding horses since she's been six years old. And we pay for her insurance, her gas, for her car, everything. And we're kind of wondering not to be so mean and tell her, hey, you need to kind of start contributing now. The backstory about this is we don't want to be too hard on her because couple years ago she went through depression. Pardon me, I'm start crying, start cutting self. Cutting self harming.

[A]

Oh my goodness.

[B]

Was very, very depressed.

[C]

Yeah. So you want to be sensitive.

[B]

Literally. Literally. Yeah, literally had a plan for suicide side.

[C]

So this horse, I'm so sorry.

[A]

Did she get some help?

[B]

The. Yeah, she's. She's in therapy now. She hasn't cut in probably two years. It was one of those when she was like 15 through 16, just trying to find out who she was and confused. And so we, we kind of almost walk on eggshells.

[C]

Yeah. You have PTSD around it probably. I mean, you know, as a parent you're just like I don't want to.

[B]

Do anything we don't want.

[C]

Right, right.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. So we don't. We can afford paying for her horse every month. But I just tell you, my husband, she's got a second job.

[A]

Did she go to school? What happened after high school for her?

[B]

She does not go to college. She basically helps give lessons at the barn with the main trainer.

[C]

How much does she make?

[B]

We never. She doesn't make a lot. I don't know, a couple hundred dollars a month. And she just got a job, a second job.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And now she should be bringing home close thousand a month. So we really feel like she should. Yeah, for some of those.

[A]

I mean, I'm trying to think of like five years from now, are we still doing this? Is she still making a thousand dollars a month at 25 years old living with mom and dad? Because otherwise we need a totally different plan.

[C]

Well, we just need a trajectory and it can be baby steps, Ashley, because I totally get your caution around it. It because of your history and what you guys walk through as a family. Like that's, that's horrible. It's every parent's worst nightmare, right. Of something like that happening. So I can totally understand that. But I also think it's two different things. I think helping her become an adult is not being mean. I think it's actually the most loving thing you can do because it actually is going to give her self confidence, it's going to give her some dignity. It's going to give her a reason to wake up in the morning and, and be productive. And like these things are good for all of us. Right. We were created to work and to, and to make and to be part of society. And so how that looks and how that plays out over time, you know, we can talk about. But, but that in general, that principle, that's not harmful to her. If anything, that's actually a gift. And again, if you do it in the right way. Right. We want to be cautious and in the sense of like how you handle it with her. And I totally understand that. But, but, but that avenue is the best thing for her in general as an adult. So just hear that. That's a loving thing. That's not a, that's not a mean thing.

[B]

How do you, how do you approach like going about it considering we feel like she's been spoiled her whole life?

[A]

You know, I would start with, with you guys. Don't make it about her. Say, hey, we, we really love you. And part of that love has caused maybe some enabling. We've covered your expenses. We wanted to give you a great life. But, but part of becoming independent means you need to learn how to handle money and contribute on your own. And we're not going to Throw you in the deep end. We're not going to say you need to pay all these expenses tomorrow, but you need to start taking on more responsibility so that you're not 30 years old, still not, not unsure how to live as an adult. Because that's unfair to her.

[C]

Yeah, I like that approach, Ashley. I mean, honestly, taking accountability for your actions because as the parents, y' all chose to this, you know what I mean? Like, this is what you guys implemented. And so I think on that end, talking to her of, hey, I, I'm sorry that we have failed you in a sense of how to set up your life as an adult. And again, she's 21, so I think there's a lot of grace here. She's not 31. Right. If we're talking, I mean, like you, you guys have not screwed up as parents by, by any means, but I think it is a, hey, we want in the next season, maybe over the next six months, we wanna start working with you on finding some more income, finding a schedule that you know is sufficient as an adult, you know, an 8 to whatever it looks like. And then the money you're bringing in, we wanna write down a budget and have some things that you're gonna start contributing. And again, that can be slowly, over time, every two months or something, you know, you add something else in or whatever that looks like, and then eventually a plan. Ashley. And again, I'm not in a rush with this. I don't know, George may be more urgent than I am, you know, but where you guys feel comfortable as a family to say, okay, our goal is by next July you rent an apartment and we will be with you, you know, every step of the way in these transitions. But starting to make a year plan, I think is really great. From November to November. What does that look like? Yeah, from a.

[B]

She has a 17 year old brother and now he's kind of, he, he's a little bit more responsible than for instance, he wanted this winter baseball thing and it was 150 and I feel we have to give it to him because look, we're doing, you're giving Your, your sister 400amonth for her horse. So, yeah, we have to say yes to you now for certain things too.

[C]

I wouldn't, I wouldn't do the quick, I wouldn't do the, the tit for tat thing, but I think brother is 17, so he needs a student checking account with a debit card. And you guys can put a certain amount of money in that account. And he needs to Start budgeting his life and that he needs to start.

[B]

He does.

[C]

Okay, perfect. That's great. That's a great start.

[A]

Does he have a part time job? Yeah.

[B]

Yes, he does. He's a very hard. They're both very, very hard workers.

[C]

Yeah, it sounds like. I think we just need to. Yeah, I would just kind of up a little bit of the pressure of. Okay, let's find two things that you're gonna start paying for. Cause we want her to start experiencing real life and it can still be under your roof for a period of time, which again, is a soft place to land, which is great. But when she starts to learn these things, then when she goes out on her own, she. It's part of who she is. It's how she knows how to do it. Right. That's equipping her really well.

[B]

Right.

[A]

How does the horse situation work? If you guys stop making these payments, what happens? Are you leasing the horse from someone else?

[B]

No, she bought it. She actually watched mama give birth to her. The people at the barn and her family.

[A]

That's a bonding experience right there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like the expenses for the horse just to keep the horse in good shape is 400 bucks.

[B]

Well, it's at the barn. All her friends are at the barn. And that's. That's boarding. Boarding speed. I mean, she works there too.

[C]

They should give her a discount.

[B]

Her life.

[C]

They should give her a discount.

[A]

I know that discount.

[C]

But her life can't be that forever, Ashley. You know, I'm saying some. At some point she's going to have to say, wow, that makes me really sad. I can't be where all my friends are. I'm going to have to go get a job. Right. Like eventually. That's what's going.

[B]

She does. She just got another job. Job.

[A]

Well, she needs a full time job that can support all of the expenses in her life. That's where we need to get to.

[C]

That's the goal. That's the goal.

[A]

Otherwise, she needs to go to school and pursue something that can actually pay the bills. So that's the hard truth that you're gonna have to unravel with her over the next several months. But this idea that we're just gonna work part time at the. At the barn, not making enough to even cover the expenses for our horse is not a winning plan. There's only two types of horse pieces people. Broke horse people and super wealthy people. And she's about to be a broke horse person for the rest of her life if we don't change this Asap you spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you [e-mail] insurance. All right, let's get to our question of the day. It's brought to you by WireFi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like the end of the road. But Y refi helps you find a way forward with a low fixed rate payment plan that fits your Life. Go to yrefi.comramsey to learn more. That's the letter y R-F-Y.com ramsey not available in all states.

[C]

Today's question comes from Ethan in Ohio. I'm in my mid-20s and recently became engaged. My fiance has over $100,000 in student loan debt and since we have lived together for the past year, most of our expenses are joint. My salary is roughly 100,000 while hers is 8 80. I have no debt. So this hundred thousand dollar debt is the biggest obstacle to building long term wealth. I also roughly have a hundred thousand dollars in non retirement investments. Should I set aside a percentage of my income to pay off her loans or is it a better option to sell those investments and pay them off? Ooh, good question.

[A]

Well, here's the thing. He's gonna be, he's gonna be upset paying like selling off his investments to pay off her debt. That's gonna going to sting a little bit because he worked really hard to invest all this money and have it grow and now it's just wiped away. But that's what I would do. If you're combining all, if you just clear the deck and go, okay, now we make $180,000. We have $100,000 in debt. And then what do we have on the plus side? Well, we have $100,000 in.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Investments we could sell.

[C]

That's right. I mean at that point you're, when you get married your net worth is combined, you know, and it's like, okay, well as a household now we are a negative plus 100 minus 100.

[A]

You're at zero.

[C]

Right. So what do we, Yep. So what's the, what's the best way to go about that? And it is to pay off the debt. But like you said, it stings. You know, we Talk about couples, that you become one when you get married. And her issues are your issues and your issues are her issues. That's financial and otherwise. But it doesn't come without emotion and it hurting a little bit. But that means that you guys together make $180,000. So you can build it back so fast. You, that's the good news. You can get back there so quickly.

[A]

Is you have a dual income. You're really young, you've got time on your side. Compound growth will do its thing and one day you'll be multi, multi millionaires. Looking back at that gun. Oh, yeah, I remember that day.

[C]

I remember that day. But we did it. But we did.

[A]

I don't think you'll regret paying off the student loan debt. Now you could try to attack it and keep your investments, but you're just, that's going to be a different sacrifice on this side. So you just got to choose your hard in this case. And I personally, if you got non retirement assets, I would just sell it. You'll have some capital gains potentially. Make sure you account for that but then knock out the debt asap. Thanks for the question, Ethan. All right, let's get to Jordan in Pittsburgh on the line. Jordan, what's going on?

[B]

Hey, guys, honored to speak with you today. I can dive right in. At the beginning of this year, my wife and I were transferred an energy stock, about 200 shares. It's valued between 16 and $18,000 depending on what month you look at at it and wondering how I can best use it to progress through the baby steps.

[A]

Awesome. What baby step are you guys on?

[B]

We are over the halfway point of baby step two. We've been really going at it this year. So we have about $40,000 in student loan debt left.

[C]

Good for you guys. That's great.

[A]

Yeah. Do you know how much you'll owe if you sell the stock?

[B]

I want to say I would need to set around $2,000 aside to cover the tax. Taxes.

[A]

Perfect. So you got about 14 that you could net from this to throw your debt.

[C]

What's left on the 16? See that's glass half empty. You said between.

[A]

He said 16 and 18.

[C]

I put 18.

[A]

That's Mrs. Optimism.

[C]

Okay, but you'll. Yeah, but you'll have 14 to 16,000 left. Sure to throw out the debt. Yeah.

[A]

And what's left on the balance?

[B]

On the balance of the debt?

[C]

Yeah. 40,000.

[B]

Yeah. We owe about $40,000 left in student loans.

[C]

How much do you guys make year?

[B]

Our household GROSS is about $148,000.

[C]

Oh, awesome. Okay, great.

[A]

So this debt's going to be gone fast no matter what. This, the selling of the stock just kind of helps expedite that.

[B]

That's kind of how I'm looking at it. Maybe, you know, I can use this to progress faster through one of the next baby steps, whether it's two or three, you know, just trying to find the best way because it is an energy stock. So I've kind of seen it go up and go down, and I know there's always that risk with the stock, but I just wanted to get a second an opinion on is it worth hanging onto for another few months and then waiting till we only have that $14,000 to $16,000 left to pay off in our debt? Or is it best to just use that and set it aside as our down payment for a house or our emergency fund?

[A]

Considering its value, I would still do exactly what we said and I'd sell it today because we just don't know what the future holds. And you're going to be heartbroken if the stock suddenly takes a dip and you go, oh, my gosh, now it's only $10 thousand. What do we do now? Do we keep waiting? Do we keep waiting? We try to time the market. So I don't do single stocks for that reason. I just already have too much anxiety about other things in life. So I stick to mutual funds and index funds, giant groups of stocks, and likely that energy stock, if it's any good, is probably, you know, somewhere in the mix. It's just not all your eggs in one basket.

[C]

How much extra a month, Jordan, do you guys have going towards paying off debt?

[B]

We set aside in total about $3,000 a month and put that toward debt. I. Minimum payments right now add up to about $500. Honestly, I hardly pay attention to the minimum payments anymore. I throw whatever I can at it, so. But, yeah, but a little over a third of our take home goes toward our debt.

[A]

That's great.

[C]

Yeah, it'd be about more eight more months if you guys just threw, you know, all of this at the debt, which is, I mean, gosh, that's what, June by summer, y', all?

[A]

And then debt free by summer.

[C]

And then keep that. Keep that momentum of that 3,000 going into an emergency fund fund, you know, and by this time next year, you guys could be on to baby step four and start back investing, which is really exciting. So to George's point, yeah, the single stock, regardless, even if you didn't have debt, you're like I have the single stock would probably say go ahead and cash it out and move it into an index fund anyways. So I would get. I would get rid of it, regardless of your situation. But it's even better that when you get rid of it, you can actually apply it to your life today and get you guys jump started, which will probably be a breath of fresh air because you guys have been grinding to get out of debt. So it kind of feels nice to get a big jump start, skip a few levels.

[A]

How many debts would you knock out if you threw 14,000 at it?

[B]

14,000. So the student loan debt, we actually just paid off my wife's student loan debt last week, which was awesome.

[C]

That's great.

[B]

So it's just my student loan debt. Half of it is federal and half of it is private. And the 14 to 16 would likely knock out the rest of my private student loans. So it would be down to just my federal.

[C]

That's awesome.

[A]

Well, then it frees up some payments to apply to the next ones, and so you really get that debt. Snowball rolling with that, which I love. That's great. Okay, let's get to Sarah in Denver. What's going on? Sarah?

[B]

Hi there. I am. My main question is. So I owe about 15,000 on my car loan currently, and my husband and I, we've been, you know, padding our emergency fund, and so we have a. About 16,000 in our emergency fund right now. We actually just found out that we are now expecting. That was just last night.

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Last night, early.

[C]

Congratulations, Sarah. Are we the first to know?

[B]

Thank you. You guys are the second to know.

[C]

Oh, I knew we were probably high up on the list.

[A]

That's a win.

[C]

Thanks. Thanks for letting us in there. Okay, so you. And so you have the money saved to pay off the car, but you guys just found out you're pregnant, and so I'm assuming you're probably a little nervous to be do that.

[B]

I'm super nervous. I'm actually really terrified to, you know, just throw it at that debt. My vehicle is not the only one that we have. My husband currently has a truck also, so we're paying his down as well. I think he owes about 25 on it, but we're throwing all that we can at the debt right now. I'm just wondering, do I use my emergency savings or do I just continue making the minimum payments and then just throw whatever extra I can?

[C]

How much do you guys make a year?

[B]

Combined we make about 120.

[C]

120. Okay.

[A]

What's the payment on your car.

[B]

382.

[A]

Okay. So you'll free up about 400 bucks, which is, you know, that's five grand right there. If you just pay it off a year from now, you'll have five grand in that account and you make 120. So the question is, could you guys pay off both cars and have a fully funded emergency fund by the time baby babies here?

[B]

I mean, I think so. As of right now, it is. Our due date is expected in July.

[A]

Okay. I'd start crunching some numbers. If you want to pause, we call it stork mode, where you kind of pause the baby steps to stack up cash. If you don't have any, but you.

[C]

Guys have the cash.

[A]

But if you have the cash already, now we're just going to attack the debt. Then you're kind of already there. So I would also look at your health insurance. Look at your out of pocket max, your deductible. Get a full picture of what it would really cost if you had to, like, go all in on the medical stuff. Yeah, that'll give you a little bit of peace in the chaos, but congratulations.

[B]

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.

[A]

Yeah, we're rooting for you guys. And maybe he sells the truck if you want to expedite this. You got a baby on the way. Let's speed things up. Life is happening. I think we can get another truck later on.

[C]

Hey, you guys, Rachel Cruz here. Look, I know you want to do better with money, but let's be honest. Life seems to be getting more and more expensive. And lately, you hardly have any breathing room in your budget to do anything but cover the basics. You work way too hard to feel broke. Our EveryDollar budget app can help you free up margin fast. Most people find an average of $3015 in their first 15 minutes of using the app. Think about it. That's thousands of dollars just sitting right there in your budget, waiting for a job to do. With EveryDollar, you'll find the margin and the motivation you need to start making real profit. Progress fast with your money. Start for free today. Download the EveryDollar app for free today.

[A]

Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who. Who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who know their stuff. With a Ramsey trusted insurance pro, you'll never have to deal with sleazy businesses or slimy salespeople because they're all interviewed, vetted, and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interests. At heart. So go to ramseysolutions.com coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. Or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. James is in Manchester, New Hampshire. Up next. What's going on, James?

[B]

Taking my call?

[A]

Sure. How can Rachel and I help?

[B]

So I'm 19 years old. I currently make about $150,000 a year. I have $60,000 saves, 20,000 of which is invested into retirement accounts. But my question is today is that I'm interested in buying a house or a multifamily unit next year. But I'm honestly not sure if that's what's recommended to me since I'm so young. I see on other Dave Ramsey videos it's 50, 50 split between whether they're with younger people.

[A]

What do you do for work to make 150,000 at 19?

[B]

So this is. Honestly, you're not gonna believe it, but I'm a. I'm a casino dealer, so I deal high stakes blackjack and high stakes poker games for a living.

[C]

You play them?

[B]

Myself? I keep all my tips. No.

[C]

Oh, you're a dealer.

[A]

You're a dealer in Manchester, New Hampshire?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, well done. I was unaware that there was a big casino ring over in New Hampshire. All right, how stable is this? Like, is this what you want to do long term?

[B]

So that's one thing. It's. It's stable in that I'm basically guaranteed $100,000 a year, but my income, like month to month varies quite a bit. But for the most part, yeah, this is what I want to do for.

[A]

A career, for the most part. Okay, so you see yourself, you're 35 years old. You're dealing at a company casino.

[B]

Well, hopefully I'll be financially well off enough to be doing what I want by the time I'm 35.

[A]

That's my question, is what is the thing you want? Because I want to make sure that this money shouldn't be used to fund education or an investment in a business before. We just lock it up in a home. Just because you feel like a home is the next step.

[B]

Honestly, I am very passionate in it. And I really haven't ever thought about going to school in particular.

[A]

Okay. There's nothing wrong with renting. There's nothing that says in this situation where I'm going, wow, you really should get a house. You're 19 and you got money. I would just pause and get a house when it makes sense for you because you're renting right now on your own or what? Or living at home.

[B]

I'm blessed enough to be living at home still.

[A]

Okay, so you got no expenses. There's nothing wrong with just stacking cash. Live at home for now, and then once you're kind of out of that, this phase where you kind of know that, you know, and you're, you know, 21 maybe, then we go, okay, I'm going to go rent on my own. I've got $300,000 making 1, 150 a year.

[C]

He should still stay at home.

[A]

You could go rent tomorrow. You could rent yesterday. You make more than most adults in the US you probably make more than your family does.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Are they like, dude, pay rent. You like, you make way too much.

[B]

Yeah, I pay them $1,000 a month in rent.

[A]

Oh, well, then just go pay a thousand and go rent somewhere.

[C]

I almost would go move out. James, just from what you're making and what you're making rent, you're a very.

[A]

Mature dude who knows his stuff and very entrepreneurial.

[C]

Yeah. So what I would say, James, is I would not be in a rush to buy a home. I would. I think you've done an incredible job saving, and I would continue to do that and maybe just wait two, three years. I don't know. I'm kind of making up that timeline just to kind of see, see, from a career standpoint, where you want to be, and if it still looks like, okay, in the near future, this is probably where I'm going to be is this area, then I probably would buy. But I just don't want something coming up in the next 1, 2, 3 years that for some reason, you cannot take an opportunity because you've just bought this home, if that makes sense.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I wouldn't just get a duplex and house hack because, you know, TikTok said it's a cool thing to do. So I just don't want you jumping on it just because it sounds good. I want you to do it because it's the right move for your future.

[B]

Okay. Thank you. That's why I called you guys.

[A]

Absolutely, man. Happy to help.

[C]

Yeah. Well done, James.

[A]

Yeah. I'm impressed. Yeah. A lot of people go, I can do the duplex and I can, but he doesn't need it. He makes great money.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not worth the $700 a month from a renter.

[C]

Right.

[A]

To have them next door. So I would just live your life and figure out what that next thing is. All right. Thomas is in Seattle up Next. What's going on, Thomas?

[B]

Hey, guys. I am recently married and my wife and I are trying to combine our finances. And I just found out she has a condo with a tenant. And the tenant isn't currently. Currently covering all the costs of the condo. And so I want to approach a conversation with her about potentially getting out of this condo just because it's not a great situation for us. But I'm concerned because obviously we're newlyweds. I don't want to feel like I'm overstepping or anything like that.

[A]

How did you just find that she has a condo?

[B]

Well, I didn't just find out. I knew she had the condo, but I didn't know the exact numbers of everything, so I'm just finding those.

[A]

You didn't knew is like a dumpster fire that she's losing money on. But you knew before you got married. Hey, she has this property over here.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Okay, so what's the math ending up being, Thomas? Like, what is she charging for rent and then how much is she having to pay?

[B]

Yeah, so she's charging 1291amonth for rent, and she's short about $312. And that's roughly. Well, not $312. It's roughly $200, but that's primarily hoa fee she's paying out of pocket.

[A]

And what's the market rate for that condo? Is she undercharging on purpose?

[B]

Well, no. Well, yes, she is under charging on purpose.

[C]

Okay. And how much is the mortgage payment a month on this?

[B]

The mortgage payment is $1171 a month.

[C]

Okay. Yeah. So she's barely. She's not breaking.

[A]

And that's without maintenance, repairs, vacancy. Taking all that into consideration.

[C]

So why is she undercharging again? What did you. Why did you say she is?

[B]

The tenant who is renting from her is in. She said she's in a tough situation, so she doesn't want to increase the rent.

[A]

Okay. But this person can't afford to live there, so they need to be evicted. If they can't pay rent, they need to go find somewhere they can afford to live. Right.

[B]

And that's sort of why I want to approach the conversation of selling.

[A]

If she's into charity, let her give to a charity. But this is not the way to do it.

[C]

And I would be okay with it, Thomas, for like a period of time, but usually these situations are ongoing, and then she's going to look up in three years and is not able to up the rent because this person that she is Being generous to now is staying. And she's like, oh, gosh, now if I up the rent in three years, how much more they're for sure gonna have to move out. Like, at some point, this person's not gonna be able to afford to live there is what I'm assuming.

[A]

Right? Yeah.

[C]

So it's kind of like it's gonna.

[B]

Think about it.

[C]

Yeah. It's gonna happen today or it's gonna happen in a few years when your wife looks up and she's like, oh, my gosh, I can't even. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't make mathematical sense. So she either needs to have a conversation with the tenant, which is probably hard to do, and she may not want to do that, but even I would possibly sell. Do you guys have a lot of consumer debt?

[B]

We do. Yeah. Yeah, we do.

[C]

Okay. How much would the condo. How much does she owe on it, and how much could she sell it for?

[B]

I don't exactly know what she owes on it, but she bought it three years ago for 195,000. And I looked on Zillow today, and it looks like it's roughly worth 177,000. So I think she's under. Walk on it.

[A]

Oh, boy. Does she have any equity in it?

[B]

I. I can't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't imagine a lot.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I would find out the balance. I mean, you guys are married. I would run through all these numbers and. And go, hey, based on what we're looking for for an actual financial future, which is to become debt free and have our own financial stability, it would be wise to sell this condo because right now you're losing money on it. So even if you sold it and broke it even, it would still be a net win for you guys.

[C]

Yeah. But, yeah, so I probably wouldn't have a second property if you guys have a lot of consumer debt anyways. But on top of that, she's. She's not charging enough to make it make sense. And it's not even like she's, you know, it's like there. There's a. There's a formula out there where it makes sense. Right. If she's charging market rate and she's making a little bit on the side, I'd probably still sell it. But all that say, that would at least make financial sense. This makes double no financial sense.

[A]

And even if she breaks even, she's still losing money when you factor in all the maintenance and repairs and vacancy. So we need to get out of this. And you have the you know, you have some influence now being the husband, to go, hey, this does not make sense. It's moving us backwards financially. We're trying to move forwards. And this is one step of.

[C]

Yeah, and it could be a kind conversation. I mean, you guys can go into it and just be curious, ask her some questions, tell her what you found, and, like, hey, you know, this is kind of what I'm seeing. Like, help me make sense of what you're thinking. And. And we just want to be on the same page financially. Like, that's the main goal. But I think, yeah, you can be kind. George would probably be like, here's the next.

[A]

Selling it tomorrow.

[C]

We're selling it tomorrow. I'm calling an agent.

[A]

Our scripture of the day. Jeremiah 29:13. You will seek me in. Find me when you seek me with all your heart. Abraham Lincoln said, you have to do your own growing, no matter how tall your grandfather was. Ain't that the truth?

[C]

There you go.

[A]

Wish I could keep growing. Be nice. Lynn is in Eugene, Oregon. Up next, what's going on?

[B]

Lynn, hi. I'm 75. I quit my job to take care of my mother, who had dementia the last seven years.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And, yeah, it was. I'm glad that I did it, but I find that. And I did get an inheritance when I was caring for her. She had money invested, and it was bringing in 1200amonth. And then we had her Social Security, and then my Social Security of 1,055. And so now that she's passed, I have inherited half of what was invested, which is. Is 1,000. Sorry, 105,000. I've never invested before. I'm very frugal. I. I began tithing when I read the Bible and became a believer 47 years ago. And I. I'm a weirdo, I suppose, as far as I've counted on God for things. And there have been miraculous provisions, like an inheritance that paid off my house a year before my husband left me and my seven kids. So I kind of. I've. And I've always worked. I've never depended. And I mean, there have been gifts of love occasionally through the years. But my point is this. It's hard for me to ask for, like, wisdom. I mean, I'm asking for wisdom. I need it, because I've never invested. To me, it's always looked like gambling, but I recognize that the income, actually, that was important as I was caring for mom, was coming from her investment. And so that was certainly a good indicator to me that it does work. And Your money doesn't get gambled away. It was because that's what it's always felt like when I look at.

[C]

It feels risky to you? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, very. And being I am 75 and I didn't. I became rather sedentary caring for my mother. And so I'm not in the best shape right now. I don't really want to go back into the workforce again, if it's possible. I understand. May have to happen. So my question is, do you have any recommendations as to what you would think would be best for my present situation as far as to bring in some income from my inheritance or should I just. I mean, I figured out I need past my income. I laid out all my expenses and.

[A]

Yeah. What are your monthly expenses?

[B]

My monthly expenses are 2,417amonth, including tithe. I'm very blessed to pay a very low rent of 1,045amonth. And then I have storage to. So. And just regular paying for my Wi Fi, paying for my car insurance.

[A]

Okay, so $2,500 a month covers you comfortably.

[B]

It does.

[A]

And you have 1,055 coming from Social Security?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And no other money, no other assets other than 100 grand from this inheritance?

[B]

Right. Well, I actually, I saved myself 16,000, but I had use anyway.

[A]

Is that your savings, essentially your emergency fund?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

16,000. Okay, so we won't touch that. We're not going to count that on the income side. We need to protect that. So you're really asking. I make 12 grand a year. I need to make. You know, you need an extra 1500 bucks. And so can we squeeze 1500 bucks a month out of 100,000?

[B]

Not.

[A]

Not for a long time. I mean, how old was your mother?

[B]

She was 93.

[A]

So let's assume you go to 93 at the very least. Right? That's. Yeah, we need.

[C]

We'll give you 95. We'll go 20. 20 years.

[A]

Rachel's very generous. So 95. We need to make 100 grand work for 20 years.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

The math on that is tough.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

Even invested aggressively, I don't know that you could make that last without running out of money. So I do think it would be wise to find work that you can do as long as your body allows you to do it and make as much as you can.

[B]

Right. Yeah. I think I'm. I'm gearing up for that for sure.

[C]

Is there. Would you do. Lynne, in a perfect world, what sounds life giving to you?

[B]

Well, I wrote one book. It was of my first 50 years of life, raising 10 children, becoming a believer through reading the Bible when I was 28. All the supernatural things God did, my husband leaving us after 27 years of marriage. And it was well received by the people who read it. But it's not gotten much reading. But writing is my love, and I still have another 25 years. I'd love to write more about how he has done so many awesome. God has done so many awesome things through being in youth with a mission with my five youngest.

[C]

And I just wonder with that gift of writing and you may have to be a little flexible on topic or whatnot, but, you know, the ideal world for me, for you, would be to do something that you love, that you're good at, that you're passionate about, and you can make some money. And the good thing is, Lynne, you don't have to be making a ton, right? I'm like, you know, even if you're making, golly, two grand a month, you'll be fine. But to George's point earlier, the more you make, even if it's above what you need, can be put away with that 100 grand so that when in 10 years or in five years, you are able then to slow back and live off those investments. Right.

[A]

So right now, the goal is to not touch that hundred grand. That feels like your worst case scenario because truthfully, you could probably live off that for six years and then it's gone.

[B]

That's what I figured already.

[A]

Even if it's invested, yeah, you could make a little more, but it's a hundred thousand. It's not a million. So even invested, if you're making 10% instead of 4%, it's 4 grand versus 10 grand. It's still not enough to cover our bills forever. And so you're going to need to get support elsewhere from working, maybe even from the kids. You have 10 kids. Are they. You have a relationship with them? Would they be willing to. Yeah, like group everyone put in 100 bucks and let's help mom.

[B]

That I don't know. I don't know. They're all. Most of them are homeowners. Some have rentals, but they have to ask rent higher than I can pay. They had hoped maybe to be able to help that way, but I've never asked them before. Actually, one one has already given me their gas card after my mom died and said, please use this. We want you to let us pay for your gas from now on.

[A]

That's sweet.

[C]

Very kind. Very, very kind. Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. So I think, Lynn, yeah, I do think work is in your future and again, finding something that you can do ideally, again, for the, towards, you know, the fact that you're 75, I'm like, I would love for you to be at a job that you, something you enjoy.

[A]

It doesn't have to be something miserable.

[C]

But we do need to be making some income. And the more income you can find, finds, even though you, you're so humble and so grateful, I can hear it in your voice. You may feel like, oh, I don't need that much. But just remember, if you're making extra, that's money being put away so that you don't have to work hopefully for the rest of your life. Right. That you can be living off some of these investments too. So I think that's the goal.

[A]

But it might be worth getting a third opinion from a financial advisor. Lynn so if you want to jump on ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvest Investor Pro, they can just crunch the numbers for you and go, hey, if you did this, here's how much money you could make with this investment if you put it over here. Here's potentially how much you could make in the market if you put it over here. And at least they can run that to show you you got the best shot, if you do xyz, to let this money last as long as possible. But they're probably going to also go, income is going to be a big factor here. If we can get to work for a little bit to at least cushion that. Yes, but that's tough.

[C]

And I think it's a, you know, it's a good point that she made that a lot of people. We've taken a few calls, I feel like today about this, of the caution around investing. So whether it's. People are nervous and it's usually the older people we talk to, the more cautious they get, which makes sense because you're like, okay, I have money. I don't want to lose this money.

[A]

It feels overwhelming.

[C]

Yes. So just remembering you guys to focus on the facts when it comes to money is so important, especially that side of the, of looking at what really has happened when you put money in the market. And that's what you have to bank on, right. You have to focus on the facts, not this idea of what could happen one day. Could Jesus come back?

[A]

That was. Oh, yeah, I took that call. That was a wild one and a good reminder that Social Security is not going to be enough. It was never meant to be enough. It was meant to cover a portion of your salary, but in this situation, as we can see, 1,000 bucks, it's that's a nice start, but it's not going to cover all the bills. And so do not rely on Social Security as your income in retirement. You've got to stack up your own nest egg, and that's through investments in the stock market, through mutual funds and index funds. And if anybody listening wants a guide on how to do it the Ramsey way, in a wise way, without falling on your face, you can go to ramseysolutions.com guide. We've got a free investing guide that walks you through all of this. And it's a great resource regardless, regardless of your age to learn because we tell you, don't invest in anything you don't understand, but it's still your job to learn it and understand it. So go check that out as well. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Until next time. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.