Shortcuts Today Mean Setbacks Tomorrow

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Shortcuts Today Mean Setbacks Tomorrow"

Episode Overview Released on July 11, 2025, The Ramsey Show hosted by Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz delves into the financial challenges and dilemmas faced by everyday Americans. In this episode titled "Shortcuts Today Mean Setbacks Tomorrow," listeners call in with diverse issues ranging from job application honesty to managing debt and balancing family finances. Ken and Rachel provide actionable advice, drawing on Dave Ramsey’s renowned financial principles to guide callers toward financial stability and wealth building.

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1. Tina’s Dilemma: Bankruptcy Disclosure on Job Applications ([00:40] – [08:13])

Tina from Houston, Texas, calls in with concerns about a career opportunity where the job application posed a question regarding bankruptcy. Tina had filed for bankruptcy over 35 years ago to save her parents' home but answered "no" on the application, fearing it might jeopardize her chances.

Key Discussion Points:

• Honesty vs. Consequences: Tina grappled with the ethical dilemma of lying on her application to secure the job.
• Bankruptcy Records: Rachel explained that bankruptcies typically remain on credit reports for about 10 years for Chapter 7 and 7 years for Chapter 13, implying Tina’s filing would likely no longer appear.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman ([03:06]): “You defrauded… about the fact that you lied on your application.”
• Rachel Cruz ([07:37]): “If you end up getting the interview, you have to come clean for your own conscience.”

Advice Given: Ken and Rachel emphasized the importance of honesty, highlighting that deceit could lead to greater setbacks if discovered. They advised Tina to consult her credit report to confirm the bankruptcy’s status and consider transparent communication with the potential employer to explain her past actions, fostering trust and integrity.

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2. Edward’s Car Conundrum: Balancing Debt and Family Expectations ([10:48] – [30:11])

Edward from New York City sought guidance on whether to purchase a second used car costing $25,000 as his wife requested, despite already having two cars with existing debts and limited savings.

Key Discussion Points:

• Debt Management: Edward and his wife had $30,000 in savings, but Edward preferred reserving funds for rent due to unemployment.
• Family Dynamics: The wife's insistence on a new car for convenience and status created tension.
• Expense Prioritization: Ken and Rachel evaluated their financial priorities, suggesting the elimination of unnecessary expenses to focus on debt repayment.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman ([13:38]): “I would roll the dice on that and look for cops everywhere.”
• Rachel Cruz ([15:37]): “You're choosing not to spend your money on a purchase you don't need.”

Advice Given: Ken advised Edward to reassess the necessity of a second car, especially given their financial constraints. Rachel recommended focusing on reducing expenses by downsizing or eliminating non-essential costs, such as the extra car, to accelerate debt repayment. Both hosts underscored the importance of aligning financial decisions with long-term goals rather than succumbing to immediate desires.

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3. Olivia’s Farm Finances: Managing Expenses to Accelerate Debt Payoff ([22:49] – [30:11])

Olivia from Anchorage, Alaska, reached out with questions about reducing expenses related to farm animals to speed up their debt repayment, which had decreased from $111,000 to $43,000.

Key Discussion Points:

• Expense Cuts: Olivia considered downsizing from 100 chickens to 10-15 to save approximately $200 a month on feed.
• Debt Snowball Strategy: The couple planned to channel any additional income from job raises and business efforts into paying off remaining debts.
• Lifestyle Adjustments: Rachel emphasized the importance of making tough choices, like reducing farm animal numbers, to gain financial freedom sooner.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman ([28:01]): “You need to get some more income.”
• Rachel Cruz ([29:05]): “Less than two years and that's the max.”

Advice Given: Ken and Rachel encouraged Olivia to implement the debt snowball method by targeting the smallest debts first while aggressively reducing expenses. They advised reallocating the $1,400 monthly increase towards debt repayment, projecting debt freedom within two years. Additionally, Rachel highlighted the emotional and psychological benefits of becoming debt-free, reinforcing the importance of disciplined financial management.

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4. Mackenzie’s Career vs. Family: Weighing the Decision to Become a Stay-at-Home Mom ([33:04] – [30:11])

Mackenzie from Little Rock, Arkansas, inquired whether it was financially wise to quit her $76,000 job—including $20,000 in veterans benefits—to become a stay-at-home mom, considering their $75,000 debt.

Key Discussion Points:

• Income Reduction: Mackenzie’s potential move would reduce household income, impacting their ability to pay rent, car loans, and student debt.
• Childcare Needs: Their four-year-old daughter required more parental attention due to feeding issues.
• Financial Stability: The couple explored options to maintain financial stability while addressing their daughter's needs.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman ([34:22]): “How do we get some more income?”
• Rachel Cruz ([40:29]): “It's going to take a level of deep humility.”

Advice Given: Rachel and Ken advised Mackenzie to evaluate the feasibility of managing finances on a single income, considering refinancing or selling assets to reduce debt. They recommended exploring alternative childcare solutions, such as hiring a trusted family member or finding a part-time nanny, to balance work and family responsibilities without compromising financial goals. Emphasis was placed on open communication and mutual agreement within the marriage to navigate this significant life decision.

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5. Cynthia’s Eviction Struggles: From High Earnings to Financial Hardship Post-Divorce ([44:55] – [54:04])

Cynthia from Atlanta, Georgia, shared her hardships following a divorce, facing monthly eviction notices and car repossession despite previously earning a substantial income from her online baked goods business.

Key Discussion Points:

• Income Decline: Cynthia's business revenue plummeted from $350,000 to $100,000 due to her divorce and frequent relocations.
• Financial Strain: Continual eviction notices and a repossessed car exacerbated her financial instability.
• Business Viability: The decline in her business raised concerns about its sustainability and her ability to generate sufficient income.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman ([48:41]): “You need to go work for somebody today.”
• Rachel Cruz ([50:13]): “You have to go and find something to be bringing in this money.”

Advice Given: Ken strongly advised Cynthia to secure employment to stabilize her income, even if it meant pausing her business endeavors temporarily. Rachel stressed the necessity of prioritizing basic needs, such as housing and transportation, over business expansion. They recommended consolidating debts and possibly liquidating any remaining assets to prevent further financial decline. The overarching guidance emphasized regaining control over personal finances before attempting to revive her business.

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6. Kelsey’s Real Estate Inheritance: Navigating Family Expectations and Property Management ([67:35] – [75:17])

Kelsey from Toronto, Ontario, Canada, sought advice on inheriting a house from her grandparents, intended to be shared between her and her cousin. She was concerned about managing the property independently without her cousin's assistance, especially considering her cousin's diabetes and financial limitations.

Key Discussion Points:

• Inheritance Complexities: The house, worth approximately $400,000, was to be left solely to Kelsey, despite her cousin's desire to reside in it.
• Financial Responsibility: Kelsey worried about bearing the upkeep costs alone and the potential strain on her relationship with her cousin.
• Legal and Personal Boundaries: Rachel and Ken discussed the importance of clear legal ownership and setting boundaries to prevent financial entanglement.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Cruz ([74:12]): “Don't commingle the finances.”
• Ken Coleman ([74:04]): “Why would you move in with a guy who doesn't want to marry you after seven years?”

Advice Given: Rachel and Ken advised Kelsey to consider legally separating the inheritance to avoid future conflicts and financial burdens. They recommended selling the house and splitting the proceeds to ensure both parties benefit without ongoing responsibilities. Emphasizing the importance of clear communication, they urged Kelsey to discuss expectations with her grandparents and cousin to prevent misunderstandings. The hosts highlighted the necessity of protecting her financial interests while maintaining family harmony.

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7. Sarah’s Adult Children: Introducing Rent to Encourage Financial Independence ([76:14] – [84:38])

Sarah from Washington called with concerns about her adult children living at home. She planned to introduce a small rent fee to encourage financial responsibility, seeking advice on how to approach the conversation.

Key Discussion Points:

• Financial Boundaries: Sarah wanted her children, aged 18 and 21, to start contributing financially to the household.
• Parental Adjustments: Transitioning from supporting children full-time to setting financial expectations.
• Communication Strategies: Finding the right words to justify introducing rent without causing resentment.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman ([75:23]): “Why wouldn’t you clamor for a free? That's right, every dollar webinar.”
• Rachel Cruz ([78:09]): “It's going to become a mess.”

Advice Given: Ken and Rachel recommended setting clear, compassionate boundaries by explaining the necessity of financial contributions to help manage household expenses. They suggested framing the conversation around instilling financial responsibility and preparing for future independence. Additionally, they advised offering support and guidance to help the children transition into paying rent, emphasizing long-term benefits over short-term discomfort.

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8. Joe’s Generosity Gone Awry: Managing Inheritance and Family Expectations ([86:38] – [116:46])

Joe from Columbia, South Carolina, shared his frustration over extensive financial support to his daughter and her rapidly growing family, culminating in complications with inheritance management as his grandparents approach the end of their lives.

Key Discussion Points:

• Over-Generosity: Joe and his wife provided significant financial aid to their daughter, including land and substantial monetary gifts.
• Family Strain: Their daughter's large family and irresponsible financial behavior strained the couple’s resources.
• Inheritance Planning: Concerns about managing the remaining inheritance wisely without fostering dependency.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Cruz ([94:19]): “You just need to hold your position.”
• Ken Coleman ([115:32]): “These are tough. These are tough.”

Advice Given: Ken and Rachel advised Joe to set firm boundaries regarding financial support to prevent enabling irresponsible behavior. They stressed the importance of maintaining clear ownership of assets to avoid future conflicts and financial burdens. Rachel highlighted the need for honest conversations with both Joe and his wife to align their financial goals and protect their inheritance from being mismanaged. The hosts encouraged creating a structured plan to manage inheritance responsibly, ensuring it benefits future generations without causing present-day strain.

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9. Matthew’s Real Estate Venture: Balancing Business Aspirations with Financial Responsibilities ([116:24] – [126:00])

Matthew from St. Louis, Missouri, sought advice on supporting his family while launching a real estate wholesaling business. Transitioning from a minimum-wage warehouse job to a new business venture, Matthew faced challenges in generating consistent income to cover family expenses.

Key Discussion Points:

• Risk of Entrepreneurship: Matthew left a stable job to pursue real estate wholesaling, facing uncertainty in income.
• Financial Stability: Balancing initial business costs with the need for reliable income to support the family.
• Backup Plans: Importance of maintaining a safety net through secondary income sources during business growth.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman ([125:49]): “I mean, you’ve got too many balls up in the air right now.”
• Rachel Cruz ([126:00]): “You need a backup plan.”

Advice Given: Ken advised Matthew to secure a steady income source before fully committing to the real estate business, suggesting maintaining a part-time job or finding alternative income streams to ensure financial stability during the business's initial growth phase. Rachel emphasized the importance of building a robust client pipeline and being prepared for market fluctuations. They recommended scaling the business gradually while keeping essential expenses in check to prevent financial strain. Additionally, they encouraged leveraging existing resources and networks to support business development while safeguarding the family's financial well-being.

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Conclusion

In "Shortcuts Today Mean Setbacks Tomorrow," Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz offered invaluable financial guidance to callers grappling with diverse challenges, emphasizing the importance of honesty, disciplined budgeting, prioritizing debt repayment, and setting clear financial boundaries. The episode reinforced Dave Ramsey’s core principles of financial peace, urging listeners to make thoughtful, long-term decisions to avoid short-term temptations that could lead to future setbacks. Through empathetic conversations and practical solutions, the hosts empowered individuals and families to take control of their financial destinies, fostering a path toward lasting wealth and stability.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Cruz ([118:15]): “You have to model the way and at some point, he goes, well, I probably could get out of that car.”
• Ken Coleman ([125:45]): “I would have preferred that you saved up before you left the warehouse job.”

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This episode serves as a testament to the complexities of personal finance, highlighting that while financial mistakes can be rectified, shortcuts and dishonest practices often lead to more significant setbacks. Listeners are encouraged to adopt transparent, disciplined, and proactive financial strategies to navigate their financial journeys successfully.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

This is the Ramsey show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their profession and their relationships. The phone number for you to jump in today. 888-2552-258882-55225. Alongside the lovely and talented Rachel Cruz Coleman. You ready to go, partner?

[Rachel Cruz]

Always. Always, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, here we go. Tina is going to start us off in Houston, Texas. Tina, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I'm excited to talk to you guys. A little bit nervous on what you're going to tell me, but here's my dilemma. I have an opportunity, a new career opportunity. One of the questions on the application said, you cannot have filed bankruptcy to deceive your creditors ever. So I answered no, that I had not. But over 35 years ago, I filed bankruptcy only because I wanted to save my parents home who passed away and it had started to go into foreclosure. So I did a quick claim deed to put it in my name so that I could file bankruptcy and save a home. So my question is, will they be able to see that and how would they be able to see that?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, the only reason they would be able to see it is if they pulled your credit report and so on. That, yes, there would be the bankruptcy, but I think it disappears within a time frame And I think 35 years is, exceeds that. So I, Are you googling, are you, are you looking up real quick? I know the, the time frame itself. Yeah, I, I think 35 years, it exceeds it. But my question to you, Tina, is was there any part of you because it said did you file bankruptcy? And you said no. Correct?

[Caller]

Right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Is there, is there anything within you though, from like a conscious standpoint of saying, hey, I did. It was 35 years ago and here's the reason why versus lying.

[Caller]

Well, see, and there lies the dilemma because I really didn't file bankruptcy to defraud my creditors. I had other creditors that I could have added to that bankruptcy.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but you, you, but you file bankruptcy rupcy to defraud your parents creditors, right?

[Caller]

Not mine.

The question said.

[Ken Coleman]

I know, but you're playing, you're playing some massive political semantics. You should run for Congress. I think this is, I think you've got a real skill for being an elected official. Here's the question. No, no, no, no. You called us. You called us.

[Caller]

Okay, you're right.

[Ken Coleman]

So first of all, I'm by the way, I'm not judging you, okay? I'm just simply saying you. You're. You're doing some unbelievable mental and ethical gymnastics. You defrauded. You. You. You lied about your bankruptcy. True or false?

[Caller]

True.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so I don't. It's not my opinion. It's not Ken. Judging. But you called, so that's the first issue. The second issue is, is not only did you do that, you lied on your application.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Ken Coleman]

And then you called us and you said, can they find out? And according to the. The rules here, you got chapter seven bankruptcies are usually remaining on your record for 10 years, and then 13 would be seven years.

[Rachel Cruz]

What was yours? Was yours 13 or seven?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So, okay, so you're saying that it's not visible if they were to pull my credit report according to what I'm.

[Ken Coleman]

Seeing on the Internet, but you should pull your own credit report on this because you've lied. And so now you're helping that you're hoping that you don't get caught lying.

[Rachel Cruz]

Tina, is the employer. Like, do you have a contact to them personally, or is this, like, a Internet application or something, and there's, like, a faceless person behind it?

[Caller]

Well, it's.

It was an online application. And once you say yes, you can explain. That's why I said no, so that I can explain. Once you say yes, you're not able to explain your situation.

[Ken Coleman]

Why did you ask that, Rachel?

[Rachel Cruz]

Why did I ask what?

[Ken Coleman]

That question you just asked her.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, because I was going to say, if you can call the person, at least to get your conscience right, and just to say, hey, this happened on the application. Here's why I said it, because it didn't give me another. Like, at least to be able to explain, to try to save the situation. I just wouldn't want to go into a work environment knowing I had lied. And you're just. There's a little bit of you that will always be looking over your shoulder.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And, Tina, here's my concern for you. And again, no judgment here, but I'm just giving you my thoughts. Let's say you get through the process because you did lie. And your whole point is, what you're telling Rachel and I is I lied so that I don't get dismissed because I want to get the interview, at which point I'm going to come clean on something I lied about 35 years ago. That's what you're telling us you're gonna do. So if I believe you, I still think that could blow up in your face, because they could Go. Well, you lied on the. On the application. About the fact that you lied 35 years ago. You know, I could see a lot of hiring managers go, I don't know that I can trust you. It's a good story. It sounds very Robin Hood esque. That's why I'm not. I mean, seriously, the same thing. I'm not judging you. Sounds noble.

[Caller]

Sure, but it's.

[Rachel Cruz]

There's at least a story behind. I mean, like. Yeah, but what line of work are you in, Tina? Is it, like, financial.

[Caller]

No, no, it's sales.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Why would they ask that? I thought that was a very specific.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm wondering.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Why is it so specific about that on the job application?

[Caller]

Well, I mean, I really can't go too deep into that part because.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're applying for a job where it matters. Right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Or the employer is going to listen to this segment.

[Caller]

No, no, exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm not asking you. She doesn't want to get caught because.

[Rachel Cruz]

She called the show.

[Ken Coleman]

I know. I'm sorry.

[Caller]

I'm gonna give out too much.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Caller]

They may listen. They may listen to Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you think? Are you using a fake name, by the way?

[Rachel Cruz]

Don't. Don't put her on the spot.

[Ken Coleman]

She put herself on the spot. You called into a national show and told us about two massive lies, and you're worried about me putting it on the spot? Here's what I was asking. No, no, no. Stay with me. I don't. I'm not dumb enough to ask you the name of the company. I mean, I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm not that dumb. I'm asking, is it a. What industry is it in? What type of work is it that would ask that question?

[Caller]

I. I can't tell you because it will give too much information on.

[Ken Coleman]

I got to tell you something, Tina. If you don't have a future in Congress, you have a future working for the FBI or the CIA.

[Caller]

Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. Maybe I'll change my. My career path.

[Ken Coleman]

You probably should. I feel like this is straight out of the headlines.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, my advice to you, Tina, would.

[Ken Coleman]

Be, what is your.

[Rachel Cruz]

You end up getting the interview. You have to come clean for your own. You know what I mean? Your own. I mean.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but I mean, she may not.

[Rachel Cruz]

Get the job because of. Is what you're saying.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm saying it's a roll of the dice.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, but they may also be like, oh, that's great. Okay. Yeah, that part doesn't really matter. And then they may move on. I don't know.

[Caller]

Exactly. 35 years ago, I wouldn't have lied.

[Ken Coleman]

Look at you. But from Tina. But you are. You are running for Congress from the great state of Texas. You're going to do great on the Sunday morning shows. You'll do great in all of that. It's a joke. Really. Not complimenting you.

[Caller]

Oh, let me tell you something. Yeah, Let me tell you something. When I did that, we were able to save the home and we were able, my sisters and I were able to sell the home.

[Ken Coleman]

I get this. This is an old thing called the ends justify the means. Not a new concept. Not a new concept at all. I think it's a tough situation. I'm not judging you. You did what you did. You're a nice, nice daughter. You got yourself in a situation potentially. Hope it goes well. I take the Dyson with me and roll them, baby. Roll them. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Life can be chaotic. Work can be stressful. And when your life outside of work and your work life coll and your body feels it. Listen, there's a ton of research about workplace stress impacting your mental and emotional health, your boss impacting your mental and emotional health. And most of us can't just say peace out and leave work anytime we want for a vacation. But we can start with small steps to help manage our work stress and our personal lives every day. This includes getting great sleep, taking care of your relationships, exercise, and for many of us, it's seeing a therapist. Therapy can help you navigate whatever challenges the workday or your personal life brings. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, contact my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online, and that means it's affordable and convenient. You just fill out a short online survey to get started and you get matched with a licensed therapist. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp offers access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. And BetterHelp has an app store rating of 4.5 out of 5 stars based on over 1.7 million client reviews. It's incredible. So manage your workday or everyday challenges with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com Ramsey all right, let's go to Edward, who is joining us from New York City. Edward, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, hi. Currently I'm unemployed and my wife is working and we have two cars as it is One of them has some sort of debt on it, and the other one is at the point where it won't pass inspection anymore. I was wondering, you know, my wife wants me to go and get a new car on a used car that's $25,000, and she wants me to ask my family for the money. And I was like, wondering, should I do this?

[Ken Coleman]

Have you borrowed money before from your family, is why she brought this up, or is this a new idea?

[Caller]

No, I have not borrowed money from my family before. She wants me to go ask my dad for the money.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And what was your reaction?

[Caller]

A lot of money.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I know the answer to this. But what was your reaction when she suggested that?

[Caller]

My reaction was like, you don't need a new car. We already have two cars.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, fantastic.

[Rachel Cruz]

You said one has a dent, and then the other is what, it can't pass inspection. So what you're saying.

[Caller]

Yeah, the first one that we have is a newer car. We only owe $2,000 on that car. The. The second car was a gift from her parents, and it will no longer pass inspection. Why then? It just needs more work than it's worth for fixing.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Do you guys have any cash saved up?

[Caller]

We have about $30,000 in cash. How much? 30,000. 30,000? Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so why does your. What? I'm a little confused. Why doesn't she just want to use the money you guys have saved?

[Caller]

I personally, I don't want to use the money we have saved because I'm unemployed right now. And we rent and we just signed a new year lease and, you know, we need that money to pay for rent.

[Rachel Cruz]

Edward, when are you going to start working?

[Caller]

I've been applying for jobs and trying.

[Ken Coleman]

Is the second car. Well, we'll get to that in a minute. Is the second car drivable?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

How often do you have to do inspections in New York?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. When is it. Is it coming up due?

[Caller]

It's due. We got rejected a couple of days ago.

[Rachel Cruz]

And so what, your tags can't get updated? Like, what's the. What's the repercussions of it in New York?

[Caller]

So. So I'm actually near New York. So the repercussions are that. Yeah, the repercussions are that if it's not fixed, it was in a certain time. Like, I guess you just keep going and going and going, but after a certain point, I really don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no, no.

[Caller]

If you.

[Ken Coleman]

You didn't get past we need a.

[Caller]

New car because she wants A bigger car. She just wants a bigger car.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I know this is what she wants. This entire thing is about what she wants. You don't want it. We're trying to help you through this because I understand you're trying to save your cash because you're unemployed. And so I'm going to get real practical here. This financial advice, this is what I would do. I can't wait to see what Rachel thinks about this. If I was in your situation and you, you didn't get passed on your inspection, which means you can't get your up to date registration on the car. Correct?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

I'd roll the dice on that one. I love a little civil disobedience from time to time. I see some people in the audience are, oh, we have a lot of knowledge, a lot of people agree with. So now I don't care what Rachel says at all. I would. I would roll the dice on that and look for cops everywhere. I've done that game before, and it's kind of like Frogger, you know, you're like, oh, I think there's a cop on my back. Left about a half mile away.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm gonna go this way.

[Ken Coleman]

I really would roll the dice until you got employed because then I would use the 30,000 to buy a nice car. But tell her, no, babe, you've already got your fancy new car that we owe two grand now we're paying that baby off. And then once I'm employed, we're going to take some of the 30 and get you a reliable car in the 10 to 15 range. That's where my head goes.

[Caller]

She says, she says none of them. None of them. She says neither of them are big enough for her.

[Rachel Cruz]

Why? What is there. Is there eight kids?

[Caller]

We only have one kid.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, okay.

[Caller]

Little kids.

[Ken Coleman]

Ever. Have you ever taken issue with anything your wife has said? And if you have, how did that go?

[Caller]

That's kind of personal.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, so is this whole phone call.

[Rachel Cruz]

So is borrowing money from your parents, Edward.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the answer? Because I just hit a nerve, by the way, and everybody knows he said that was personal. Yeah, go ahead. What's the answer to my very personal question?

[Caller]

Sure, I have. But you know what? I've just kind of ruled the roost at times with this one. I'm kind of putting my foot down on saying I don't think we need another car.

[Ken Coleman]

Good. Put your foot down.

[Rachel Cruz]

And. And let me say this. You're not being unreasonable, Edward. You're unemployed. You guys have money saved. You're choosing not to spend your money on a purchase you need. And you're going to go and extend yourself not only just to a bank, but to your family to borrow money. Something that you don't need. Like, there's like three things right there that are like, nope, nope.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, you agree with us on all of this. You don't agree with it. You called us to get confirmation. That's what you call.

[Rachel Cruz]

What kind of cars do y' all have now?

[Caller]

We have Alexis and a very old Highlander.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so is it a car, a sedan or an SUV?

[Caller]

The one she's driving, they're both SUVs.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh.

[Rachel Cruz]

And so the Lexus SUV, it's just a little too small.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna tell you, man, I'm gonna review this because this is cutting really sad.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's really sad.

[Ken Coleman]

I would.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, I'm really. I feel claustrophobic thinking about it. Ken?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I would tell them. I tell the wife, sweetheart, I'm sorry. Your car is big enough. And. And I would roll the registration dice. I think you can dodge cops.

[Rachel Cruz]

How often or how long do you think it'll take you to get a job, Edward?

[Caller]

I've been trying.

[Rachel Cruz]

For how long?

[Caller]

I took a package. In five months, I took a decent sized package from work and I'm looking.

[Ken Coleman]

So what does that mean? When does your package end? Because you're living off of your severance, I'm guessing.

[Caller]

Nah. No. So, like, it was a one lump sum pay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Was that part of the 30,000?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

What were you making before you got laid off or like 90?

[Caller]

Bro, taxes.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me tell you something. I'm going to tell you this, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. I appreciate the fact that you're trying. I don't think you're trying well enough. I'm going to give you a couple resources, but one of the best things you can do right now is get a job. It may not be the $90,000 job that you had before, may not be in the career lane that you want to be in, but in this interim period, we know from psychology studies that losing a job has the same psychological and emotional impact as losing a loved one. And you need to get to work. While you're looking, you're working. And I don't care if it's a $25 an hour manual labor job, a $20 an hour job, I don't care be working, because it's going to keep you going in the game physiologically, and.

[Rachel Cruz]

It'S going to all the. And Let me say this. That's going to take. That's a level of deep humility.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it is.

[Rachel Cruz]

And for your wife not to have the car she wants is going to take a level of, like, dying to self and deep humility. And there's some of this, and I don't know if it's true, Edward, or not, but this keeping up lifestyle of continuing to want bigger and better constantly and not being satisfied, if that's not the case, is a disease that we all have as Americans. Right. And some may have it worse than others. But there's a contentment issue here, too, Edward, for. For you and your wife and all of it. And if you live your life really dependent upon what other people think, from your job to your car, you guys are gonna live an exhausted life. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. And so.

[Caller]

Well, yeah, I think you're preaching to the choir on that one. It's just, you know, look, I don't need the car. I mean, I don't. I mean, I'm very happy with what I have. I've come from very little and, you know, I never took private jet flights like my wife did and things like that. So it's like, I guess she's come.

[Rachel Cruz]

From a certain lifestyle, though. She's coming from a certain lifestyle. Right. And her expectations are very high. Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah. But listen. Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm like, but you gotta say no.

[Ken Coleman]

That's why I asked the question. I wasn't being funny.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And we can say no in this one instance. I worry for her, though, in life, what I'm saying.

[Ken Coleman]

I know, but this is a marriage conversation.

[Rachel Cruz]

It totally is.

[Ken Coleman]

So he's got to go, no, here's why.

[Rachel Cruz]

And here's the. Yeah. And Edward, I mean, like, I. I mean, I don't know. I don't want to put words in your mouth or make you concerned about something you're not. But. But there's a. Yeah, there. There's an expectation in life, and it's coming up in this instance, and I'm sure it's come up in other instances, and it will continue to come up until the heart of the issue is hit on. And. And that is that. That's. That's gratitude, that's generosity, that's humility. Like, there is a character in all of us that is so key. How long have you all been married?

[Caller]

Three years.

[Ken Coleman]

I can tell you what this is right now. You all have an expectation problem.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, she does is what it sounds like.

[Ken Coleman]

But it's their problem.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Her expectations are great. Great expectations that become unmet expectations become massive frustrations. Man. This is a marriage issue and you're going to have to stand strong on this and go, we got to get on the same page, babe.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And I would be pushing some of this emotional stuff too for. For y' all to be growing and her to be, you know.

[Ken Coleman]

Absolutely. Real quick, Edward, hang on the line. Christian, let's get him a copy of.

[Rachel Cruz]

The Proximity principle and the contentment journal for her.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, wow. Shots fired.

[Rachel Cruz]

I do. She's my spirit animal. So, like.

[Dave Ramsey]

I get it. Switching banks is a pain in the. You know what? But if your bank doesn't line up with your money goals, it's time to make the switch to Fair Winds Credit Union. Listen, you guys know how I feel about big banks. They make money when you stay broke, charging you overdraft fees, pushing credit cards and telling you debt is normal. And that's why I only work with folks who help you, not just profit off of you. Fairwinds is different. They're owned by their members, their nonprofit and they share our values. They even advertise with billboards saying they want their members to be debt free. So they built the Smart Checking and savings bundle just for Ramsay fans. You can open your account online in minutes and here's what you get. Free checking with no minimums and no monthly fees. Savings with a high apy to help you in baby step one and beyond. And a mobile app that actually makes sense. Plus you also get access to over 33,000 fee free ATMs and more than 5,000 affiliated branches nationwide. So don't settle for a bank that slows your progress down. Choose one that's built to help you win with money. Go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey and open your Smart bundle today.

[Ken Coleman]

Fairwinds is federally insured by the ncu. Alright, folks, buying or selling your house is a big deal. You know that. And you need an expert. Somebody who knows what they're doing and who's really committed to helping you. They're in your corner, fighting for you. That's what you need. And the Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find that person, that top agent that you can trust to help make your home a blessing, not a burden. So you can find that Ramsey trusted local real estate pro for [e-mail] agent that's Ramsey Solutions. Olivia joins us now in Anchorage, Alaska. Olivia, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, can you hear me?

[Ken Coleman]

Loud and clear. What's up?

[Caller]

Oh, good. Oh, Good. I. My husband and I were on baby step two, and we've recently hit like, a. Like a. I don't know, like a lull, I guess. We started with 111,000 in debt. Now we're at 43,000 in debt, not including our home. And I was wondering if maybe we should start downsizing our, like, farm animals to try to speed up things.

[Ken Coleman]

Tell us more about these farm animals, because as you might guess, Rachel and I really don't know farm animals well.

[Caller]

I don't know, Like, I'm actually, like, a farmer, but I did have.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you know more than I do. I promise you that. So what do you give us a list, like, what are the animals? And by selling them, how much money would you generate?

[Caller]

So it wouldn't generate money. It would just cut back our expenses, which is. Which is where it's at. So. Right. We started with 100 chickens. Now we're down to 30. And so if I cut that down to, like, 10 or 15, then it would cut our expenses maybe in half.

[Ken Coleman]

So it's just chickens a month?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's just chicken.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, how much would it save you a month?

[Caller]

It's right now the chicken food expenses, because I buy, like, this really expensive grain. It's. There are 600amonth for all the pet expenses. So I think the chickens are 400amonth. So it would save me maybe 200amonth.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much you guys make a year?

[Caller]

We make 89, 000 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, I got a quick question because, I mean, I. I'm clueless about this. Quick question real quick.

[Rachel Cruz]

My friend has four city chickens. Yeah, Just got. They just got them.

[Ken Coleman]

How many eggs do 30 chickens produce?

[Rachel Cruz]

One a day usually, right, Olivia?

[Caller]

They sometimes can produce one a day, but our chickens lately have been giving us five, which is really frustrating.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, here's my next question. Frustrating? Why is that frustrating?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'll take them.

[Ken Coleman]

I got four eggs every morning, by the way.

[Rachel Cruz]

Wow. Great protein.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. My question is to make some money. I understand the saving money, but are you selling these eggs? And could you sell these? I have no idea what the egg market looks like for those fancy, you know, super chickens you've got that are super organic, well fed. Could you make enough money to help pay off debt if you kept the 30 versus? In other words, are you making enough money off of these?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't think you're selling them. Right? Like, you're not.

[Caller]

I was selling them, and then they just stopped producing for some reason. They're not very old because they stop producing at a certain age or if they're just losing their feathers and stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

I thought you just said they're cranking out five a day.

[Caller]

Yeah, 30 chickens are five a day. But I go through five eggs a day.

[Rachel Cruz]

30 chickens are producing eggs. Not each chicken is five eggs.

[Ken Coleman]

I was thinking 150 eggs a day.

[Rachel Cruz]

Me, too. Okay. Yeah, I'd probably be getting rid of the chickens.

[Ken Coleman]

Sorry. Well, this is your problem with me trying to figure out this question. I don't know. Okay. Yeah, you get rid of the chickens.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

These are freeloading chickens.

[Caller]

That's what I eat.

[Rachel Cruz]

Really, really. Well, eating some roost.

[Ken Coleman]

I know these chickens are high on the hog here. You're giving them the best grain, and they're collectively only pumping out five eggs a day.

[Caller]

I know. Yeah, yeah, those are.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what those are? Those are welfare chickens.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Getting the subsidies, baby. Not a lot of production. Sorry, dude. Sorry. A little political reference. The audience appreciate it.

[Caller]

No, you're good.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so, yeah, I think you get rid of them. Yeah. Sorry, Olivia, but you're only saving 200.

[Rachel Cruz]

600?

[Caller]

No, no, no.

Only 200amonth once I get rid of them.

[Rachel Cruz]

Why did I hear 600?

[Ken Coleman]

She'll tell you.

[Caller]

Yes, 600 is my, like, pet expenses. But I can't.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

I don't have a bunch of dogs. I just have old dogs.

[Ken Coleman]

What, you want to hack people off? Talk to them about getting rid of their pets? George got into that trouble on the horse. I'm not gonna touch the dogs.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, no. That's in a different category than even horses. So, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. So, yeah, that's gonna save you 200amonth. So that's.

[Rachel Cruz]

And probably Olivia, just some manual work. Right? Like that probably saves you some energy, too, because you guys are working hard to get out of this debt. But what else do you think you guys can be doing? Like, have you guys mapped out the rest of the 43,000? Because you guys have killed it. I mean, going debt from 48. From. You guys are at 43. We're at $111,000. Like, that's amazing.

[Caller]

Yeah. I actually called in and I talked to somebody. I don't remember now. I think it was Jade. And. And they were telling me to sell my forerunner, which I ow 50,000 on. And so then I sold a four runner, a boat, another car, and we got a truck. And so now we have one vehicle. I don't know how to get rid of this last 40,000. It feels like it's going to take years.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, okay. So you know exactly how you're going to do it. You're just going to keep. Keep doing the debt snowball and, and just taking cuts at it. Now you got to get some more income. So how do we get more income?

[Caller]

Yeah, my husband's been doing some training to get raises. He's expected to get a raise again in another month. He just got one two months ago.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, great.

[Ken Coleman]

So what would those combined raises between the one he just got and the one he's going to get, how much will that add to your take home every month?

[Caller]

I think, I think it would bring another 1200amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so that's $1200 a month.

[Rachel Cruz]

Chickens are gone.

[Ken Coleman]

Chickens are gone.

[Rachel Cruz]

200 on that. So you got 1400.

[Ken Coleman]

She got a great way to go. That's $1400 a month that you guys are going to be put into this. You're going to knock this thing out way faster than you think. Let me tell you something. This is really important because you are at a place and I love that you were honest and transparent with us that you're feeling stuck, like, oh, I'm mentally and emotionally. How are we going to get the remaining 43? It's really important that you don't allow that voice to win and that you get focused on the fact that we just got a fourteen hundred dollars a month raise and that's fourteen hundred dollars a month we can put towards this debt additionally. So what were you putting towards debt?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, and even like two and a half years, Olivia. Even at that rate. And then that doesn't even include if he gets a raise in a year from now, you know, in a couple hundred extra bucks a month. So it's just.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you guys have been in it for a while, right? How long have you guys been working this?

[Caller]

We started last February, but in between now and then. So I just had our second child and we got married and we paid for cash. And so I think just coming after.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Instead of just having one and now having two, it's just kind of reality.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, for sure.

[Ken Coleman]

But let's do a real quick math just to encourage you. How much money. Excuse me. Were you all putting towards the debt snowball each month prior to these raises and our chicken strategy.

[Caller]

Thousand dollars.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so I think with the 1400 that Rachel concocted there, that's 2,400amonth now. So now divide 43,000 by 2400 and that's. That's your number.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Less than two years and that's the max.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, that's the max.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's going to take less than two years. You guys can do this.

[Ken Coleman]

You got it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Caller]

Okay. We can do this.

[Rachel Cruz]

You can.

[Ken Coleman]

Of course you can do it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yes. And it's one day at a time.

[Caller]

So long.

[Ken Coleman]

I know, but your life is going to be immeasurably better just by getting rid of these chickens.

[Rachel Cruz]

Almost like an extra three grand a month after all this is paid off that you guys are going to have.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, it's gonna be great.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's great. It is. It is so worth it. You guys just keep. It is a marathon, though. It is a marathon. Jade, her husband, you know, who you talked to. It took them, what, seven and a half years, but they had close to half a million. Yeah, but it was. It was just that. It is. Yeah, it's a marathon. But, yeah, you guys got this.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And congratulations. Less than two years. You can do it, Olivia.

[Ken Coleman]

You can do it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Listen, you know, congrats on the baby, too.

[Ken Coleman]

You're tired.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

You're tired.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, baby number two.

[Rachel Cruz]

And with what, 30 chickens.

[Ken Coleman]

Thirty chickens? Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's a lot.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. By the way, who do you sell the chickens to? Who do you. How does that happen? Do you put that out on, like, Facebook or something?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't think you can. I think you can sell animals.

[Caller]

Oh, you can. No. You can sell chickens on Facebook.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right. She knows. I don't know if I ever.

[Caller]

$20 a piece.

[Ken Coleman]

How much?

[Caller]

Like $20? Depending. Like, I think I could probably get 20 to 30 for mine.

[Ken Coleman]

That's pretty good deal, given that these are welfare chickens and they're not producing our welfare chickens. How do you even sell a welfare ch at that? These 30 don't lay eggs. They just eat.

[Rachel Cruz]

Or you just say they're cute. You don't say anything about production. Just look how cute they are.

[Ken Coleman]

You have 30 bucks to watch a chicken bebop around my backyard. I'm not doing it. Have. You're cranking out eggs. I'd pay a premium for that now.

[Rachel Cruz]

That'd be good eggs.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. I didn't. By the way. This is all very exciting to me, James. I had no idea there was such a thing as a welfare chicken. Didn't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've been helping people get margin back in their budget for over 30 years. And switching your phone plan is one of the easiest wins out there, especially with Boost mobile. Boost gives you unlimited talk, text, and data for just $25 a month. And I'm not Talking about some promo rate that goes up later. That $25 price is locked in forever. No contracts, no headaches. And with their 30 day money back guarantee, there's no risk. So stop wasting money. Go to boostmobile.comramsey today. Restrictions apply. See boostmobile.comramsey for detail.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Mackenzie next, who's joining us in Little Rock, Arkansas. MacKenzie, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi guys.

[Ken Coleman]

Hi.

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

So my question is, my husband and I are currently in baby step two. We've been really tackling our debt for the past year. My question is, is it a bad decision for me to quit my job and become a stay at home mom, possibly take a pay cut for the next year?

[Ken Coleman]

How big of a pay cut?

[Caller]

I currently make about 76,000. 56 of that is my salary and 20,000 is veterans benefits.

[Ken Coleman]

How much does your husband make?

[Caller]

He makes about 90,000.

[Ken Coleman]

So we would go to 90,000 for how long?

[Caller]

Well, it would be about 90,000 plus my 20,000 in benefits. So I would still have that little bit of income and then he is potentially going to be getting a pay raise in about a year to a year and a half.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I think the simple question always in this scenario is if you go back to the 20,000 or whatever your situation is, are you guys going to be tight or are you guys going to have some margin?

[Caller]

I think that we would be tight. I've tried running the numbers. I currently hold our benefits like health insurance and things like that. So that's something that we would have to switch over to him. I think in general we would have a little bit of a margin, but definitely not like what we have right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much debt do you guys have left, Mackenzie?

[Caller]

We have about 75,000, two cars and a student loan.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, how much are the cars?

[Caller]

I have a loan for 17. My husband has one for about 20 and then he has a student loan for 30.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, how much are they worth? The 17 and the 20?

[Caller]

I haven't really checked into it. I don't think that we're in the hole on them, but I'm not really sure what the worth would be right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And how old are the kids?

[Caller]

Well, I have a six year old who's in school and then I have a four year old who will have to wait one more year from her birthday to go into kindergarten.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So the combined car payments, 875, I would look at trying to sell those if you want to come home. One of the first things I'd be doing is how do we downsize our car situation? Because now we gave ourself an $860 a month raise, which would probably give you more margin.

[Caller]

Gotcha.

[Ken Coleman]

That's at a minimum. That's at a minimum right now. Is there a way for you to tough it out? Is it even possible emotionally, physically, all the things to stay with your job until you pay off the debt?

[Caller]

Yeah. So, I mean, technically, I, you know, I actually really enjoy working. I don't really want to go back to being, um. But my daughter, who is in daycare, the one that has to wait another year to go to kindergarten, she is just not thriving. And I feel like it would be better for her to be at home with me so I can meet her needs a little bit better.

[Ken Coleman]

Is there something specific that's really, really like special need type situation or she just struggling in general?

[Caller]

She does well, like socially and academically. She does have some feeding issues where she's, you know, some days refusing to eat most of the day, and they're trying to coerce her to eat, you know, things like that.

[Ken Coleman]

Does she do that with you?

[Caller]

She is really picky at home as well, but I can get her to eat a little bit more because I can spend more time, you know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so tell me this, mackenzie. Will she start kindergarten next, like August or September? Yes. So one more year, but next August is your position. Are you in a scenario where if you did come home for a year, you could go back?

[Caller]

I don't think I would go back into the same position I'm in currently, but I work in a field that I could easily find another job. Maybe not as high paying, but. Yeah. The other thing is, you know, my husband, in about a year and year and a half, will actually be getting a pay raise to the amount that I'm currently making in my position.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, here's an idea. And I'm by no means suggesting this is the silver bullet may not be a good idea. But hearing what I just heard, if I were you, knowing that you like to work, it's good income, and it's really kind of a unique situation. I wonder if there is an older family member or an older grandmother that's retired, that's still vibrant, that has the one on one ability that you have that could build trust with your daughter. I just wonder instead of a traditional daycare, if you didn't find somebody to be in the home with her and work through this. And the reason I'm saying I would try that is because let's say you do this and you come home and you're able to coax her because of the relationship and you get her where she's eating, she still. Either this thing gets solved between now and kindergarten, or you may be faced with a homeschool situation if she does the same thing at kindergarten. I'm sure you've thought through that. I just wonder, is that a viable idea to have somebody in the home? You continue to work because you enjoy it, number one. Number two, it's great income. And then you've got somebody that's one on one with her, highly trusted, loves her, cares for her. Is that a possibility or no?

[Caller]

If it was a family member? No, we don't have that possibility right now. But I have looked into doing like a nanny in the home, but considering the hours that we work in our commute to work and the payment, it would be too much. I mean, we're already paying way too much for daycare anyways. Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I wasn't talking a professional nanny. I'm talking like an older family member. We did this, by the way, when Stacy was working and the kids were late, elementary, maybe one in middle school. We love her, Ms. Pam. And we looked and we looked and we talked. We didn't put out an ad. We just used our personal relationships and our connections and we found Ms. Pam. And Ms. Pam was probably 62, but very strong and very healthy. She was retired and she wanted to do something, and so we had her there for X amount of hours a day doing mom helper stuff. But in this situation, I would at least try it. In this particular situation, if it doesn't work, totally get it. It was just an idea there. But what are your thoughts here, hearing all this?

[Rachel Cruz]

I think. I don't know. My whole take on things is I make decisions fighting for peace. Like, how can I have the most peace in my life? What are things that I can do? And that's one reason we do this show, is because people don't have peace with their money. So you're. They don't have peace at work. And it's like, okay, what decisions do we have to make in order to gain the most peace? Right. And so for you guys, Mackenzie, that's a very personal question to you and your husband. And if there is not. If the. I just imagine as a mom, if there was something happening and one of our children who will not be named is the one. She doesn't struggle with, like the eating stuff. Mackenzie. But she's our. She's Our one that we're like, she's your drama queen. She's our. She's great.

[Ken Coleman]

She's awesome.

[Rachel Cruz]

But if she was really struggling at school, like. Like, I would have. So I would be so distracted at work, like, it would just. It would be torturous. It'd be terrible. And so. So honestly, maybe you guys say, hey, it actually creates more peace for you to be home. And it takes us an extra 9 to 12 months to get out of debt. That feels way more peaceful.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Than doing this and being miserable for a year. But yet we get out of debt. And then you get to come home. But yet. Then she goes to kindergarten, and life looks different there, too. So I. I don't. I mean, getting out of debt frees up a lot. And so talking to your husband and usually, sometimes the men carry a lot of the stress, too, when it comes to the money. So you guys just have a really honest conversation and paint a couple of pictures, too. Like, I always hate the idea of we only have one option. You know, like, when we talk to people buying a home, like, it's the only home. It's the only home that has everything we want. We're like, no, no, you limit yourself. So paint four different options, MacKenzie. Like Ken's option be option A. And, hey, let's see what's over here. Option B. Stay home. Yes, Stay home and sell the cars. If you stay home, the car's got to go, Mackenzie. That I would. I would nix those. Option C, is there a position that's part time, and she could be in daycare Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and you work Tuesday, Thursday to get out of debt six months earlier. I don't know, like, start doing some math, painting some pictures. And. And what, from a gut check for you guys, creates a family and an environment that.

[Caller]

That.

[Rachel Cruz]

That you guys can hold and feel good about. Right. So that. That's the way I'd answer that. Especially with moms staying home with kids and stuff. Now, we talked to some people, McKenzie, and, you know, she makes 40, he makes 40, and they can't even pay the bills without a dual income. And so those people, they don't have an option. Like, they have to go to work to keep their lights on. And so if you guys have the ability for you to go home, everything can still be paid. And then on top of that, maybe getting a little extra to get out of debt faster.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you said something. Mackenzie, one last thing. Rachel just said something that triggered something to me. I think you're absolutely right. You were kind of wishy washy on. On the question of if you go home, is it going to be tight? And you said, I've run the numbers. Kind of. Here's my point. You and your husband both need to run those numbers. And both of you be able to look at each other and go, okay, if we do this, we know we're only going to have $200 remarks, margin or whatever the number is. And then if we sell the cars, it could be a thousand. Get. Get real clear on that. Because that could create relationship tension if you don't. George. I went my whole life avoiding being on the Internet. And now everything I do in my life, my professional life, my personal life, everything's on the Internet. And so now identity theft protection means the world to me and my family. And I'm the resident techie millennial here. So I've been on the Internet since before it existed, and I've actually had my identity stolen before. But good news. We both have identity theft protection from Xander. They monitor our personal info on hundreds of thousands of databases, and they alert.

[Caller]

Us of any suspicious activity.

[Ken Coleman]

And that's everything from Social Security number activity to home title monitoring and more. So the key is, identity theft does happen, unfortunately. But if it happens, Xander handles everything. Up $2 million in stolen front protection and white glove service to restore your life back to normal. I don't understand how the Internet's work. I don't understand what's going on in this little cybery world. And that's why I'm so grateful for Xander. They've got me, and my family's back. They've got you and your families back. And it gives me one last thing to worry about, one less thing to be anxious about. And it lets me be a dad that sleeps at night. Yes. And all you gotta do is go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282 to protect your family with the most complete ID theft protection available. That's Xander.com. this is the Ramsey Show. Where America comes comes to have a conversation about their money, about their profession, and about their relationships. The phone number for you to jump in on the conversation is 888-2552-258882-55225. Alongside the fabulous Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman and we are together for you. We started off with Cynthia in Atlanta, Georgia. Cynthia, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. How are you today?

[Caller]

Pretty good. I'm trying to think of where to start, pretty much. I am newly divorced. I Don't know if two years is newly. Since then, everything has gone to poop. I have had an eviction notice every single month.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, no. Cynthia.

[Caller]

Since my divorce, I'm currently under eviction, and three days ago, my car was repossessed.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, my gosh. Now help me understand. How are you getting an eviction notice every month for 24 months?

[Caller]

Okay, so how it works is if you don't pay rent by the 24th, then they add on the next month. So say if I don't have it and say I don't get the money till June 24th. Okay, well, now I have to pay July. So it's like I keep getting caught.

[Rachel Cruz]

Behind by like basically one month. Okay, Is it because of how your paycheck's hitting?

[Caller]

Well, I'm, I'm self employed, but it's like while you're trying to save up for something, life is still happening. The light bill is happening. The phone bill is happening. Insurances.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do? What do you do for yourself?

[Caller]

What do I do for a living? I have an online store selling baked goods.

[Ken Coleman]

Sweetheart, you're not paying yourself very much because you're not making very much, I'm guessing.

[Caller]

Well, I. What you make last year making like last year it was 50. Well, let me just tell you, during. During my divorce, I'm trying to be as fast as possible. I was the breadwinner. So 20, 21, I grossed 350,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Selling online baked goods.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. Okay. I'm a little surprised by that.

[Caller]

Then after my divorce, it just kept going down. 198.

100.

Part. Well, I will say we had a very expensive wedding that I footed the bill for, but before I could naturally recover from the wedding, we were being divorced. We were only married for nine months. No, no.

[Ken Coleman]

Why did your income go down? I don't understand what, what your answer has to do with your business itself.

[Caller]

Grossing 350 and business had slowed down and then I. By me making everything and having to keep relocating, it's just throwing off like my customer service.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

And the shipping got you.

[Ken Coleman]

And so now here you are, post divorce, two years. What are you projected to make or pay yourself this year off of this business?

[Caller]

Well, I haven't really been. I've been mingling money. I know I'm not supposed to because I feel like I'm not bringing in enough to separate it.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you mean by mingling with.

[Rachel Cruz]

The business and your personality?

[Caller]

Because I. Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, forget that for a moment. We're trying to help you out And I gotta get to a baseline of what do you think your income is gonna be? Because what I'm diving into here is do you need to wrap this business up and go work for somebody else? Because you are drowning and there's not enough income. I'm sure there's some debt and we're gonna get into that, but I'm just trying to establish a baseline.

[Rachel Cruz]

And by income, Cynthia, like being able to support yourself, to pay rent. Do you know what I mean? I mean, like basic income. This is an extra margin to throw at debt. This is like, like paying your car payment, which didn't happen and it got repossessed. Paying your rents, keeping the lights on, like basics. How much does it take to. For your household to run per month, Cynthia? Do you know, without all the extra stuff? But, like, for real, like, how much is rent, lights, utilities? What's the. What's the baseline?

[Caller]

I'll say about 3200.

[Rachel Cruz]

3200. Okay. To keep everything afloat. That's rents, lights on, gas in the car, or what are you doing for a car? Do they take it?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you. What's your plan for that?

[Caller]

I'm gonna try to get it back.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

But I feel like it's either pay back rent or pay for the car. I don't know how to do both.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let me tell you what helps this situation. Working and getting paid. And that's what I'm going to come back to. What are you paying yourself right now per month off of this business that you run?

[Caller]

Like I said, I'm not separating it. So I'm just. I'm just spending. I'm not really. Okay, okay. This is for the business. This is for me. Okay, but do you understand, like, I'm not making enough.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much are you making, Cynthia? Per month? How much is the business bringing in?

[Ken Coleman]

That's what I'm trying to get at.

[Caller]

Probably about 6,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

$6,000 a month. Okay, okay.

[Ken Coleman]

That's not enough. It's not enough. So you're in a real situation right now where you've got a skill and you've got some experience, and I don't want to spend any more time. I don't want to belabor it. I don't want you to feel bad about it. As to why the business has dropped from a high water mark of 350,000, which is a pretty good number for a solopreneur, certainly. Selling on, like, baked goods.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure. To 60.

[Ken Coleman]

We don't. We don't have time to break down why it's fallen. But we are in a situation. We cannot pay rent and we cannot afford our car. It's been repoed. And you need to go work for somebody today, tomorrow, like, you've got to get some income, number one. And then I want to give it back to Rachel. Do you got to get a hold of your finances?

[Rachel Cruz]

And this is like going to give you whiplash because it's. Because we're basically saying you got to do something different than what you're doing right now. So I don't know if you're still doing baked goods and at night you're working somewhere else or if you close everything down and you say, do you have like equipment that you could sell from the bakery that you could get some cash flow in?

[Caller]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

What does that mean? No? I. I'm shocked at that answer for three.

[Rachel Cruz]

Where did all the equipment go when you were making 350? I mean, I'm sure you had some.

[Caller]

Kind of no home based.

[Ken Coleman]

You're just like using your stove and your oven and all that.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. I would make that my part time thing and I'd go find something full time because you can still sell, you still have your website, all of that, and you're not fulfilling a ton of orders from what it sounds like. And so I would go be doing something else during the day because, I mean, if this is crunch time, Cynthia, this really is one of these things, like, you need to go to Target tomorrow and say, hey, can I do an hourly job? Like, I don't care what it is.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

But to find something to be bringing this money in, because we, we have to get that part of this going. There's not much expenses to cut from 3200. Right. It's not. But anything else that you have, keep that 6,000 coming in from the business if you can. And then on top of that, you have to go be doing something else. How much did you owe on the car? How. When they. How much is. How many back payments?

[Caller]

About three.

[Rachel Cruz]

Three thousand. Well, three payments. Three payments? Yeah.

[Caller]

With like, towing fees.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Do you have anything you can sell to get two grand to take it down to them and say, hey, can I just shore this up?

[Caller]

No, not.

[Rachel Cruz]

No. Okay. Well, the, the. The number one, a 1 priority is keep a roof over your head, keep food coming in, and you can use that from the bakery. And then everything else is gonna have to come from a different income to. To be putting towards this repo and other debt that you have. Cynthia, I'm So sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

Charlene in Salt Lake City is where we're going. Charlene, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, thank you, thank you so much for taking my call. I am wondering how do I help my husband? We're currently in baby step number two. We're enrolled in Ramsey plus taking Financial Peace University. And how do I help get my husband to that gazelle level of intensity to tackle our debt?

[Ken Coleman]

Ah. Threaten to send him to the council. I'm kidding. No, don't do that. That's terrible.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, give me like a range. Yeah, of like, like you're here and this is what you're doing versus what he's doing. What are you wanting more of?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we have about a hundred thousand dollars out in debt outside of our home loan and we grossed about 135,000. I have opened up like a little hobby side business to bring in some extra money on top of my full time job. We also have 10 month old twins so.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh.

[Caller]

So that's kind of. That was a new expense that really made finances tight. And there's also a property back taxes because we built a home. So the tax evaluation wasn't correct. And then the county made an error for all property taxes and that raised our total monthly mortgage payment by like $600 a month. So between daycare and.

[Ken Coleman]

That's fun. Yes, I remember that. Election day. Just me. So let me ask you this. What if you could wave a wand and say, I wish he would do this or this? What is that?

[Caller]

I wish that he would look for promotional opportunities.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Because that would obviously bring more money. Anything else?

[Caller]

Yeah, I don't. He also, you know, when. Because I've been selling items and, you know, I mentioned selling like our Miter saw and he, you know, had a little bit of a hard time with that. And we also have. We have a truck that his mom totaled in February, but my husband made the decision to salvage it, and that is our third vehicle, and he's not willing to give that up. And so it's just really hard when.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm like, okay, I got it. Yeah. Rachel, you're. Yeah. The reason I asked that question is because you said, how can I help him be more gazelle intense? And I think you've got to you. And I'm glad you shared it with us. You've got to identify where those specific pain points are.

[Caller]

Are.

[Ken Coleman]

And Rachel, I'm curious as to what you're going to say about how to communicate it, but I think that. Well, I have one other quick question. I'm going to hand it to Rachel. I do have another question. Were you the one that brought the whole Ramsey thing to him or did you guys come at it together?

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure. Oh, yeah. I can hear it in your voice. She did, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

I sure did.

[Ken Coleman]

Now, I'm not making excuses for hubs, but I am pointing out that he doesn't have total buy in yet.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yet.

[Ken Coleman]

And so you're going to have to help him with the buy in. I think Rachel's probably going to be better at me and giving advice on that. But as a dude, I will tell you, tools, salvaging the junk. I mean, that's such a dude thing. And he's incapable of thinking about those the way you think about them. But if you can get him on board with. With what you're doing and why and he begins to come along, then those things. So in other words, it's a transaction that he's not interested in right now and you got to get it beyond transaction is what I'm getting at. He's just not there yet.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. No, I mean, I mean, yeah, I think that's the biggest obvious problem is that you guys don't care about the same thing. Right. If you both cared about getting out of debt, you would both put in effort. And maybe even at that point, there's still always the nerd in the free Spirit. There's always gonna be the one that's always gonna be a little bit more intense that will like literally eat peanut butter for a year, you know. And the other one's like, no, we need a little bit of a lot.

[Ken Coleman]

Like, he's not fighting you on this stuff, is he?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, my, my, my worry is that you sold something that he, that you guys didn't talk about is what it sounded like. Right? Are you like going through and like putting stuff for sale and you're like, sorry, babe, this is leaving and this is leaving because that her stuff, I think. No, he said a saw.

[Ken Coleman]

She said, she said she wanted to sell the miter saw.

[Rachel Cruz]

And he was like, I'm sorry. He was like, I thought she did.

[Ken Coleman]

No, he's like, leave my stuff alone.

[Rachel Cruz]

I hear you.

[Ken Coleman]

I hear junk car.

[Caller]

Yeah. I've been selling things that he doesn't necessarily care about.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like some of our baby clothes, you know, I gotcha.

[Ken Coleman]

But is he on board?

[Caller]

Right?

[Ken Coleman]

So is he on board with the concept of the baby steps though?

[Caller]

I think he wants to be. He's just, he's always been a happy go, lucky guy. And then the internal optimist, I mean, so it just.

[Rachel Cruz]

So what you have to communicate to him and it's not like I want you to sell this or do that. It's here's where I'm coming from and here's what I'm feeling and what I'm thinking. It's not, you're not doing this and you're not doing that. Like what's going on in you? I mean, I can imagine what's going on you is there's a level of. Or I'll just say how I would probably feel if I were in your shoes. I have two 10 month old twins, which is just. God bless you, girl. I mean, unbelievable. I'm working a full time job, I'm exhausted, I'm kind of scared. And the fact my husband doesn't share in the fear with me at all scares me even more. And that makes me not feel cared for. I don't feel seen. The hard work I am putting in, he's not acknowledging like it starts to just break down. Is that right? Would you agree?

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean with the business, I kind of. So my twins are IVF twins and so that was expensive. We paid for it all out of savings, but we took a break for it and that's when I opened up my side hobby business. Right. Yeah. And he just has a hard time. He's had a hard time Buying into that. But a couple weeks ago, I had like a pop up market event that I pulled in $1400 in sales over a weekend. Yeah. And so, and so he's starting to buy in a little bit more. But yeah, it's.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I think, I think he's not going to be doing the actions until he and you guys agree from starting place. I agree that this is what we're wanting to do as a couple. And so you'll, you'll always be frustrated until you guys can have a shared goal, that this is what you guys want to do as a couple. And that's the hardest thing. So. And the way to tell him and communicate that is coming from you, of what you're feeling, what you're thinking, why you're wanting to do this, all of that. And my hope is always, if a husband looks across the table at his wife, who's scared, who's, who's longing for something that's like, you know what I mean?

[Ken Coleman]

Like, oh, you're nailing it. Let me ask you a quick question, Charlene. This is. He's a good husband, isn't he?

[Caller]

He's, he's wonderful.

[Ken Coleman]

I had that sense. I had that sense. And let me ask you this. I'm gonna flip this on you. If you went to him today and said, hey, babe, I'm scared about something with my health, I've been experiencing this. I'm feeling this. Something health related. And you shared with him that you felt like you needed to go get some medical treatment for it, how would he react to something like that? Give me, give me an answer.

[Caller]

He wouldn't, he would go out all the stops to get me there. And.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, here's why I asked the question. That's what Rachel has just said. What Rachel has said is absolutely right. He doesn't. If you went to him with a health thing, he would be like, go get the test. We do whatever it takes. He has to see that what you're feeling about debt and this whole debt snowball Ramsey plan, all this, this isn't some cockamamie idea that you came up with that you saw on Instagram. This is a problem deep in your soul. And if he hears it that way and sees it, and I think you could even go so far as saying, hey, I haven't done a good job of actually telling you why all of this is such a big deal to me and I need to really tell you how I feel the way Rachel laid it out. And I think if he did that, I think it's got a great chance knowing what we know about him and what you've said about him as a husband and how he'd react to the physical. Physical. I think it's on you to cast a little bit more vision, a little bit more real feelings and I think he'll get there. And by the way, keep selling your own stuff, model the way and at some point, yeah, he goes, well, I probably could get out of that car.

[Rachel Cruz]

In an ideal situation too when you guys get through all of like the heart stuff if you can get him and you guys sit down and have nothing numbers on the table of like, okay, here's this debt, this debt, this debt, this debt. Here's what we make. We could be out in 18 months or like, or if we sold this, we could be out in 16. But like start painting some scenarios for him because this whole just idea because especially if you're a free spirit chill person, Mr. Optimism, the idea of like sacrificing lifestyle.

[Ken Coleman]

Together, it's like he's like the glass is always full.

[Rachel Cruz]

We'll be fine, you know. And so to show them that it's not forever cuz you may be painting this picture of like oh my gosh, this is going to be, you know, our whole life and it's not, it's going to be a short amount of time. But get some numbers and some facts down so you both can see them.

[Ken Coleman]

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[Rachel Cruz]

I'm doing one tomorrow.

[Ken Coleman]

Kim, are you doing one?

[Rachel Cruz]

Did one yesterday and then I'm on tomorrow how.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, this is great because I'm telling people about this. It's absolutely free. Describe it from your point of view.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, we're on together for about, I don't know, 45 minutes to an hour and we walk through how to show people how you can get margin almost. I think it's like over $9,000. People are funding the first 30 days. Crazy. But it's all through looking at, okay, how do you do a high level budget? Basically when you connect your bank through every dollar and you get those transactions and you start seeing your actual spending habits. And there's so much coaching now inside of everydollar from the digital coaching and on. Like it's so great. It is so great. So helpful for people because people have a lot of questions. So we kind of just walk through that and then we do a live Q and A too. But there's so many resources now that the every dollar team's putting out and it's fantastic. But just a great training. If you're like, hey, I really do want to get, I want to break that paycheck to paycheck cycle. I want some margin. We really walk you through and show you how. So it's fun.

[Ken Coleman]

EveryDollar.com webinar EveryDollar.com webinar can't be any easier. And it's free. Did I mention it's free? I've seen you people at the baseball games and football games. They throw a free T shirt in the crowd.

[Rachel Cruz]

They go crazy.

[Ken Coleman]

Perfectly normal, well adjusted adult adults start acting like children over a free T shirt.

[Rachel Cruz]

And some will like raise the person in front of the person. Like if they catches it, oh, it's.

[Ken Coleman]

Like a WWE Monday night Raw match just to get a free T shirt that doesn't even fit. So why wouldn't you clamor for a free. That's right, every dollar webinar. There's my guilt trip. That's all I'm gonna say. Kelsey is up in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Kelsey, how come we help.

[Caller]

Hi. Okay, so a bit of a weird situation. I bought my own house with my two kids and I've been living there for roughly about seven years. And I met my boyfriend, he lives across the street in his own house. And now that we've been together roughly seven years, we kind of want to amalgamate. And I just don't know what is more responsible, do I keep my house as like a rental? Because the type of house we need is going to be a decent amount because I Need four bedrooms and a garage. So I don't know what the best solution is. Like, we don't know. Should we sell both houses and just get the one? Would that be irresponsible, letting go one of the houses? We're just not sure.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, hold on. All right, so hold on. All right, so I think it's fascinating. You guys have been together for seven years, and you chose the word amalgamate, which I had to Google. And I'm a real word nerd, am I not? Rachel? There it is on the screen. The word is amalgamate. I couldn't spell that if my life depended on it. And again, I'm a reader.

[Rachel Cruz]

Means you're living together, right?

[Ken Coleman]

No, it means. It means to combine or unite to form an organization or structure. And I'm laughing out loud. Loud. You know, inside. Because I didn't want to interrupt you. Yeah, you're not gonna amalgamate. You guys need to get.

[Caller]

I guess that's not the word.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not the word. It's called matrimony.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, she doesn't want to get married. They're not getting married.

[Ken Coleman]

I know she. I know she doesn't.

[Rachel Cruz]

Living together.

[Ken Coleman]

But what I'm saying is you ought to consider matrimony at this point. For seven years we've been together. Here's why you do not. And Rachel can explain here why we do not like the idea of the house thing getting mixed together. It needs to be very separate. As long as you guys are amalgamating. Okay. And not being married, then those houses and money and everything need to stay separate. I'm not kidding you. James will remember this. I feel like over the last couple weeks, George and I got multiple calls of couples who decided to move in together. Together and mix their finances. And then, shockingly, the amalgamation stopped and it was a mess.

[Caller]

So what do you do if the other person may not want that. Want to get married, but they do want to move, why do you want.

[Rachel Cruz]

To be with them? Kelsey, great question.

[Caller]

Because I really love him. He's really great person, but he doesn't.

[Rachel Cruz]

Want to commit to you.

[Ken Coleman]

He doesn't love you as much as you love him.

[Caller]

I just think that he's a little worried, maybe from past relationships or something.

[Rachel Cruz]

Kelsey, how old are your kids?

[Caller]

My kids are 9 and 11.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Okay. Those are the ages of mine.

[Caller]

Yeah. And so I've raised them by myself in my house.

[Rachel Cruz]

Great job. Yeah, yeah, for sure. As a single mom, I can't imagine.

[Ken Coleman]

He lives across the street, right?

[Caller]

He lives across the Street. What do we do? Directly across the street?

[Ken Coleman]

What do we. Okay, I'm gonna be. Can I play older brother for 30 seconds?

[Rachel Cruz]

They're playing house without him having to commute 100.

[Ken Coleman]

Can I be your older brother for 30 seconds?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. Thank you. You gave me permission to be older brother.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Why in the world would you consider moving in with a guy who doesn't want to marry you after seven years when he lives across the freaking street? When you guys want to amalgamate, it's really quick to walk back and forth. I don't understand. I'm dead serious. If you were my sister, I'd be like, what are you thinking? Here's a guy that's had seven years to figure out if he feels safe with emotionally. So I don't buy his excuse, which, by the way, you've swallowed whole because you're amazing and you love this guy. But his excuse of I've been burned in the past. He's had seven years to kick the tires, and you're no tire, but you get the analogy. What are we doing here? He lives across the street. Why would you move?

[Caller]

Okay, answer that. It's getting difficult on my end because I'm having a hard time now with everything going on in the world that, like, inflation is crazy. And I'm just struggling while he's kind of doing pretty well over here.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, wait a second. Wait. This is great. So you want to combine finances, but he doesn't want to marry you. Oh, I know. But guess what? He doesn't want to marry you. You want his help, but he doesn't want to help. This is weird. This is messed up. Rachel, please come in with a female perspective. I've done the older brother thing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I mean, how do you feel.

[Ken Coleman]

About this on her behalf?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, it's everything you're saying. I mean, my number one is always. And I think I've gotten. I'll say this. I think I've gotten even more conservative on my stance of this.

[Ken Coleman]

That I first of all like to.

[Rachel Cruz]

Think that you're getting more conservative. No, I'm just saying in the sense of. In a relationship. I just think marriage for the kids sake, for your sake. Like, there is. There is a. There is something that happens, the bond of a person when you commit and say, I'm gonna commit my life to you. And I think it's good for you. I think it's good for the world. Like, I think that it is a good thing, Kelsey, and for you, long term, you will always, always be in the balance of. He could walk out, Kelsey. Like that. And you have built your life around a man and his money at this point, and he could take that in a second. And you have no legal obligation. You have nothing.

[Ken Coleman]

Preach. I'm going to take an offer.

[Rachel Cruz]

And then you are way more on a bad end.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So I get it now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Listen, I guess that's what it is.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, you're great. I totally agree.

[Rachel Cruz]

So there's no protection for you, Kel. And there is something about that commitment of marriage, not only from an emotional and spiritual side, but also this financial side that we're talking about. And you're setting yourself up for a lot of danger, not only relationally, but financially. And you can't.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. If he's willing to marry you. If he's willing to marry you, then we go through with all this. You sell your house. You guys figure out which house you want to live in. Sell his. I don't care. But to become one. That's a great plan. You guys have been together for seven years. Years. I don't know what his problem is, but it's a problem. He needs to commit. And if not, by the way, you've done a great job to this point as a single mom.

[Rachel Cruz]

And. And as I said. Yes. And if he. And if you still love him and you get off this call, you're like the. Ken and Rachel are insane. I. No, no, no, I'm right. All I'm. All I'm asking you, Kelsey, is just don't commingle the finances. Don't do it. Do not build your life on someone else's finances that you're not married to. Please don't. For your kids, for everything. I'm just like. It's just. That is not. It's just not a smart decision. It is not a smart decision, and I freaking hate that. What a little immature. Can I say it?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

For seven years, you're dating a woman with two kids.

[Ken Coleman]

He's a deadbeat. I'll tell you. He's a deadbeat boyfriend. Probably a nice guy, but as a boyfriend, it's like, what are we waiting on seven years? Commit, man. We got a bunch of men in this society, by the way. This is a. This is a societal problem. Got a bunch of men that just won't commit.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I'll be honest. Because they can live like they're married. They get what they want.

[Ken Coleman]

Because women don't hold.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like, it's just, like. It's a. It's.

[Ken Coleman]

She needs to lay out an Ultimatum. There's an old phrase, why buy the cow when you get the milk for free? This is a thing. This is not difficult. Commit or I'm out.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Rachel Cruz]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

For our question of the day here on the Ramsey show, brought to you by Y Refi. If you're ready to stop drowning in private student loan debt, why Refi throws you a rope? You can talk to Y Refi to see if refinancing your defaulted loans with a low fixed rate is an option for you. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's, that's y r e f y.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, Today's question comes from Sarah in Washington. I have two adult children living at home. My daughter's 21 and I've supported her while she cash flowed college full time. My 18 year old son passed on college and has a great trades job. I'm about to have a conversation with them giving them six months notice that I'll start charging them a small amount of rent. Rent? Just a couple hundred dollars each for the principle of not living here for free forever. How would you justify the rent to them in this conversation? I've never planned on making them pay rent but after listening to your show, I have changed my mind. But I'm struggling to find the right words for this conversation. Oh man.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'm not the guy you want to ask that question to because I, for the 21 year old, it's like you're out.

[Rachel Cruz]

I know. That's what I was going to say.

[Ken Coleman]

God bless you. I'd love for you to come by all the time. I'm going to keep stocking the floor fridge. You visiting is great. You living here is not.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

But now I, I don't know if that's too hardcore and we'll see where it comes to when my, but I mean I, my son, both my boys know like this is not, you're not living here forever.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, no, I know. So the, yeah, the, the adult children coming back and living at home for like a span of time and for a reason I understand. Right. Like I'm living at home while I'm going to college a season. That makes sense. Or, or you know, you graduate college and you come home and you know, they move in with you Ken, for three months while they find an apartment, they get a job or all this like. Right. Like there's sense of it, that's fine. But this ongoing never ending business I'm.

[Ken Coleman]

Not a fan of and that's what it will become. By the way, you are the cheapest landlord in the history of landlords. And that's what this is.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

What kid's gonna want to move on from a couple hundred bucks a month in rent?

[Rachel Cruz]

Totally. I know, I know.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So it's. Yeah. I mean, I would have the conversation itself. Six months. I mean, if the son has a great job, Even though he's 18, you get to learn to be an adult. I mean, I don't know. I. That's what I would do. So.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Very nice. Of course, we. You know, it's going to be very interesting. You never know where. I've got a college freshman. He just finished, so he'll be starting his sophomore year, and it's like. It's gonna be very interesting to see how all of this shakes out for him.

[Rachel Cruz]

You mean? Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Like, you got three kids. I got three kids. Yeah. Like, what is the.

[Caller]

There.

[Ken Coleman]

Like, am I going to have to have the conversation?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, right.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, you know. Or is it like, I was the kid that. I was gone.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Didn't want to go back.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

You know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

We didn't have cell phones. This is going to date me, and this is going to shock you. When I was in college, we didn't have cell phones.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Didn't exist.

[Rachel Cruz]

I believe it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Thank you. We had a dorm phone.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

When I was.

[Ken Coleman]

And so I remember getting a knock on my door one night and open the door. Did you like that sound effect?

[Rachel Cruz]

I was going to say you love your sound.

[Ken Coleman]

And my buddy. I opened the door. My buddy's there. We went to the same high school, but he lived down the hall. And he said, hey, my mom just called me, or I just talked to my mom, and she said that your mom called her and wanted me to tell you you need to call home. I was that kid. I mean, there was no ugliness or anything. I just. Once I went to college, I was, like, done, Gone.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And not every kid's that way.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure, sure.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, but I was like, hello, world.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, for sure.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So we'll see how it plays out. Natalie's up in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Natalie, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You're sure, sure, sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So I. My husband and I are on baby steps, too. We've been doing really well. We've paid off 7,000 this year.

[Rachel Cruz]

Nice.

[Caller]

Just recently got a new job. That is, he's making twice as much, but it came with some expenses that we knew of, but it's been more expensive than we were planning. So he's. He travels and he works on wind turbines. So as he travels, we have to pay for his hotel and his law or his lodging and his food. And it's turning out to be 1,000 or more per week. And he's getting. He gets an amount like he gets 175 a day, which is like 850 a week. But it's. It's more than. It's costing more than what he's getting to pay for it. And it's getting like. I'm putting. You're not gonna like this, but we're putting it on. The hotels and stuff have been on a credit card because we just didn't have. We didn't have the money to pay for the hotels to start with. And so I've been putting like a thousand dollars on the credit card every month. And it's just growing. It hasn't. Like, it'll go down, and then it's right back up to either the same thing it was before or a little bit more, and I'm just lost.

[Ken Coleman]

What kind of hotel is he staying at?

[Caller]

Well, it kind of depends. So right now he's actually in Abilene, Texas, and he did find a cheaper one. He's out of Super 8 right now, and that was super cheap. This is like the cheapest one he's been at, and it's actually below 175. And then before he was in Copal, Texas, and they were like, right at that 175 at night.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you're not going to like this, but the first thing that pops in my mind, Rachel, is I go back to my days working in Virginia politics. I was young, single, 21, driving all over the state, and I lived out of hotels, and I had a budget that the campaign gave me, and I stayed in some, like, you know, stuff that I wouldn't even let Stacy look at. But I was A Dude, I'm 21, and it was like I had the budget. And I know that's an extreme situation. However, you know, you gave me one locale, and the Super 8 is actually below budget. Then you gave me another locale and you said it was right at the budget. But in this case, he's got what he's got, and so he's going to have to. How shall I say this? If he's going to stay in this job, he's going to have to suck it up and he's going to have to play within the rules. And I think right now it's just not been convenient. And you guys are paying for it. In other words. Words. You said it was a local named Coburn or something. I didn't make it out. Go somewhere else. Go 20 minutes away where there's a Motel 6 where the light's not even on. But he's crashing, he's working. Like it is what it is.

[Rachel Cruz]

And it doesn't make sense because, you guys, at this rate, it's like $52,000 a year in expenses. How much is he making?

[Caller]

So he brings like about 6,800amonth.

Month.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, you're not. Y' all aren't making a ton. Then after these. And then I bring in 2,400. It's like 20 grand that he's making.

[Ken Coleman]

He's not.

[Rachel Cruz]

And how much is this? Makes no sense.

[Ken Coleman]

He gets how much? He gets how much a month in expenses? 8 something.

[Caller]

So it's about half of his paycheck. So if he makes 6,800, 3,400 of that is the perdian that's supposed to go to. Towards his hotels. And he's. He's spending more than that. And I do know that it's also. It's not just the hotels, because, of course, he's got to eat. And so part of that is also, like, he'll eat out. Like, he doesn't have. Like, he's in a hotel room, and so it's not like he doesn't grab. Sometimes he'll grab, like, microwavable stuff that's super cheap. And then sometimes he'll go to Chick Fil a and spend $20. And it's just like, there's.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's my point. Here's the. This is the job he has, and this is the compensation. You knew this going to in no surprises. And now he's got to manage it. So you have two options. Option A is when he goes to these little towns, he doesn't go to Chick Fil a and pay 20 bucks. He goes to the local grocery store. And if he's in this little place, he gets enough food for three days. And it's P.B. and J and tuna fish sandwich, turkey sandwiches. I mean, this can be done. And so it's not a function of can it be done? I hope you aren't calling to go. How can it be done? Because it can be be done. Or you change jobs. Those are your options. But Rachel's right. This job doesn't make sense in its current form. So either he goes, you Know what? This is my job and when I'm on the road, life sucks. Makes me really happy to get home. But my wife and I are going to agree to.

[Rachel Cruz]

How many nights away is he? A week.

[Caller]

So he's six weeks on and a week off.

[Rachel Cruz]

So he's gone for six weeks.

[Caller]

Yeah. So me and our two year old, we're at home.

[Rachel Cruz]

How is that, is that sustainable for you guys now? Just from a lifestyle perspective? Six weeks away currently.

[Caller]

It's weird because he's at like a tooling department. He's not actually at a wind turbine. So it's weird timing. But once he goes on an actual job, we'll know like he'll be there for three weeks. So me, I, my two year old, I work from home. So when he gets set somewhere for like three weeks I will go and be with him.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, then that's more expenses of you guys eating out more and everything.

[Caller]

Well, and, but I, we've already done this once and like I made all the food in the hotel room. Like we brought a griddle and we brought that hot spot and it worked out well.

[Ken Coleman]

If that works great. But again, A or B. Hey teachers, your students are stepping into the real world and starting to deal with the money challenges that all grown ups face. From making that first paycheck stretch to figuring out how to afford college or trade school. They need real life knowledge and know how right now. And with foundations in personal finance, your students can learn how to budget, how to save, how to avoid debt like real world money skills that last a lifetime. So learn more by going to ramseysolutions.com foundations. That's ramseysolutions.com foundations. This is the Ramsey show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their profession and their relationship. So glad you've joined us. The phone number to jump in is, is, 882-55-5225. Triple 882-55-2225 alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman and we're here to coach you up. Joe is up in Columbia, South Carolina. Joe, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, thank you. Thanks for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet.

[Caller]

About 20 years ago I read Dave's Total Money Makeover and we got out of debt. Then we started investing in the stock market and timberland here in South Carolina and things went really well and we ended up in pretty good shape. My daughter and her husband got married about that same time. We gave them $20,000 for down payment on their first home and then we bought 120 acres and we built a house here and they decided they wanted to join us. And so we gave them two acres of land. Then about two years later, we gave them another $20,000 to help pay down their mortgage. Then over the years, they had 11 children.

[Rachel Cruz]

11.

[Caller]

11. So they had an old beat up van and we wanted to be able to take trips. So about three years ago, I think we bought them a brand new transit, 14 passenger van. Well, I'll get to the point. The oldest child, our grandson, is 19 and he just got married and his wife is 17 and a half. And our daughter and her husband wanted us to give them land to build a house on. And we said, you know what, that's a little young. Owning land is a big responsibility. Let's wait a couple years. Well, that didn't suit. They want to be in control of when and where they give the children land. Our rule of thumb was when we think they're old enough and responsible enough.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, because you don't want, you don't want them to build a home. And then in four years when they're 20, 24, they're like, oh, we want to move out of state. And then you're stuck with this other house.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, it's. They're pretty upset and they, even as we speak, they're moving. Your.

[Rachel Cruz]

Your daughter.

[Caller]

Yeah, the whole family.

[Rachel Cruz]

So where are they moving to?

[Caller]

New neighbors that we don't know. Right in the middle of our property. And they're, they're moving away. They're not going far, only 11 miles. But they are moving and they won't be in control. And we created this monster, you know, by giving and giving and giving.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I don't think, Joe, I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. I think they could have had that exact same situation and said, mom and dad, you guys have been insane to us. We don't accept, expect anything, and everything you've given us is beyond anything. And then they have their little chickens and they, they deal with it like they like the expectation end and the entitlement. And it's not because you were generous to them. It's because their character turns sour in the midst of it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so that's not.

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't think that's your fault, genuinely. Unless they couldn't have handled it in the first place. And y' all kept giving it to them because they had expectation. But if they were, you know, kids that were very grateful in it and didn't have any expectation, all of this Would have been a blessing. It would have been great. And they would have honored you and honored your requests. So I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

Joe, what's. Joe, that was a great setup. What's your question for us? I'm curious.

[Caller]

Well, you know, we're thinking we gave too much. We're thinking. I heard what Rachel just said, but we're. We're thinking we gave too much. And. And. And I'm 74, and we're really wondering what to do with inheritance.

[Ken Coleman]

How much are we talking about? How much are we talking about?

[Caller]

Well, we live off of the interest on our investments, but the principles which should stay there is around $4 million.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let me ask you this really quick, because we got a limited amount of time, and I want to help. Help you. Is your wife on board? Is she feeling the same thing that you're feeling? Are you two in alignment?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

Great news. Okay.

[Caller]

So I appreciate properties in both of our names, so, you know.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. The reason I asked that is I wanted to make sure that you weren't dealing with some of that, because what you've got is your daughter is playing a little bit of poker with you. I think it's bad poker, but I think it's poker. And I think you're irritated by the fact that they're pulling up stakes and. And now the land that you gave them, someone else is going to live there. And I get how that rankles you, but I do agree with you that this particular decision has gone too far. I don't think we need to spend any more time arguing or siding with you as to whether or not it was your fault or not. I think we got to focus on where we are right now. And so what I would tell you is I was listening to you tell a story, and I was just trying not to laugh out loud, but. Because the fact that your daughter thinks that she can tell you anything to do with your property is hilarious to me. And I think you got to hold your. Your. Your. Your position here. And. And in this situation, if they want to move, they move. I think she's playing a little bit of poker. I think the best thing you can do is let them go, even if it's 11 miles already going. Okay, good. So here's the deal. As far as your. What you want to do with your retirement and your inheritance, you and your wife need to sit down. And I appreciate you calling us. That's not our call. My only answer, and I'll give it to Rachel in a second. My only answer would be you all do with that money what you feel you should do with that money. It should not be about guilt. And the fact that she's your only daughter or only child sounds like. And we got to do this. If you feel like it's going to be abused and misused, you get to decide what to do with that. But you're going to have to live with. With that. And you got to have to understand that once you're gone, that they're going to have to live with your decision. So you and your wife need to get on the same page together. And let's not let outside forces dictate too much. Do what you think is right. Rachel.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm curious, Joe. Do you guys have any level of relationship with her now or.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, it's not just her. The husband is very active in the decision making, of course. And we're still on speaking terms. And. And as a matter of fact, we're going to counsel and try to work this out.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good.

[Caller]

So, you know, I just.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, you feel like people like you got a big. Yeah. I mean. Yeah.

[Caller]

When they got a big inheritance coming, they don't. You know, they. I don't want it. I don't want the prospect of the money to hurt them any more than what we've already seen.

[Ken Coleman]

Are they responsible financially just with their. In their daily financial finances?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Well, to Rachel's point. Rachel makes a good point. Rachel's right. You didn't. You didn't spoil her. To the point that they're just a train wreck with their finances. It seems like they just. It's just your generosity has become something they're very comfortable with, and so now they're acting out. Sounds like. I don't think you and mom have done a bad job at all. And I don't think you need to be worried about them squandering it, but I think you could get creative with how you do it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And the fact that money's created a tension point, too, is not. That's not great. So how do we remove that element and. And heal the relationship to go forward? And maybe it's a thing that, like, we're not going to mingle money as much anymore. Right. And. And put the money there. So. I'm so sorry, Joe. I hate that your generosity feels taken advantage of, in a sense, from what you told us. So I'm so sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work Searching for the right insurance coverage coverage to protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you. Like we would find what you [e-mail] insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

Alright, when you're tackling debt or building wealth, one of the things that we can do very easily is we forget about one important step in reaching those goals and that's insurance. Having the right coverage as opposed to too little or too much can obviously impact how long it takes you to get there. And so skimping on insurance money might seem like a good idea when you're saving, but then life gets you and you're really, really regretting and you can fall back into net without that safety net of insurance. So think of the right insurance as a shield around your loved ones in your wallet. So how do you know if you have the right coverage? We've got a free coverage checkup. That's what it's called. It's a free online resource and it's going to create a personalized insurance action plan that's unique to you in your specific situation. So if this is you and you need to make sure you haven't checked your insurance, do I have too much? Do I have too little? Takes about 5 minutes. Ramseysolutions.com checkup ramseysolutions.com checkup and you can take that information and make some changes in your life. Matthew is up in St. Louis, Missouri. Matthew, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, so basically my question is how do I continue to support my family and I while also trying to get my real estate wholesaling business up and going.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I think it's the wrong question. Okay, so I think the question should be how do I support my family? And let's answer that. And then when we get to a place where we've got a really clear answer on how to support my family, then the second question becomes how can I now ease into a separate venture of real estate? And I'm not trying to be cute in any way, but I really do think that that's the mindset. And my guess is is you'll understand that if we get a little information from you. So when you set it up that way, what is your current plan for making a living?

[Caller]

Real estate wholesaling.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. And how much are you making?

[Caller]

Well, we are closing on our first deal next Wednesday. It's going to be $4,250 that we received and I Mean, it was all, you know, just paper pushing, getting a property under contract and then selling my position in that contract. Okay, so you're wholesaling money into it? Yes. Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Interesting.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, how much were you making prior to this and what were you doing in that job?

[Caller]

So 4,000. One check is a major jump for us. I've never made that much money off of one thing in my entire life.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, well, you didn't answer my question. Question. How much did you make a year in your last job and what were you doing?

[Caller]

I was a warehouse worker making minimum wage and I made like 13 an hour.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Okay, that helps me. And so give. Paint the picture for Rachel and I. What's the transition from warehouse worker to this? Wholesale. Did you quit your warehouse job?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

How long ago?

[Caller]

The beginning of June.

[Ken Coleman]

Beginning of June. Okay, and give us an idea. Do you own a home? What's your mortgage? Are you renting? And what is your rent?

[Caller]

We stay with family. We just, you know, we pay for, you know, our portion of lights and gas and stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, what do we mean, family? Your parents? Her parents.

[Caller]

Her parents.

My parents have a apartment downstairs.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, there she is.

[Caller]

Kind of like a. Sorry. Hi, I'm Heather. My parents have an apartment downstairs that we kind of rent out, but we pretty much are just paying our part of the utilities.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, and do we have kids?

[Caller]

We have one son.

[Ken Coleman]

And how old?

[Caller]

Eight months.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And Heather, do you work? Oh, we lost her, Gisetta.

[Rachel Cruz]

I. We. I don't. Is that right?

[Caller]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, you're home. Home with the baby.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Caller]

I do work with him on the business as much as I can.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

Having an 8 month old is hard.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Do you guys have, do you guys have any debt?

[Caller]

We have a car payment. It's $356 a month.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much do you owe on the car total?

[Caller]

Six.

[Rachel Cruz]

Six thousand. Okay. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

How long before the next deal? I understand you're going to make 4,000 some dollars in a week or so. When is the next check coming?

[Caller]

So I go and look at a property tomorrow. Currently I'm hitting the streets every single day, putting sticky notes out on doors, calling leads, leads. I've got a couple promising leads that I've got a follow up one.

We also have other houses under contract that are waiting for buyers.

Correct. So it's just a matter of finding a buyer and then closing on the deal.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah. My only fear with this whole, the wholesale process, it can work if you have a big pipeline, but starting it is tough. And so I just Don't I get nervous? Nervous that when there's not a pipeline you're gonna either get desperate in a situation and make a bad call on one of the properties or something without having something else supporting you guys at least having some money come in. The good thing is your expenses month to month do not sound like a lot. I mean the fact that you guys don't have that's true rent to pay. But it does make me a little nervous that you guys made this big change jump but yet you're in a position thankfully that from a lifestyle perspective you, you have a soft landing if you will.

[Ken Coleman]

But here's what I would have preferred. I would have preferred that you saved up before you left the warehouse job. I would have preferred that you saved up minimum six months of your income and put it in the bank. I would have really liked 12 months before you go all in on a real estate estate thing. I've had people call in and ask this question before. They want to be a real estate professional and that to go to win as a, as a real estate agent, you've got to be all in.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I'm curious Matthew. What, what caused you to do the wholesale route? Well.

[Caller]

Currently we're both in college. We're going for BSBAs. I'm going for a major in entrepreneurship and corporate innovation.

[Ken Coleman]

To do what?

[Rachel Cruz]

How old, how old are you guys?

[Caller]

28.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, I'd stop college right now. You got. Let me tell you why. You need to be taking all those hours that you're spending on college and I'm talking to you, Matthew, and you need to be working in the warehouse or even a better job making $20 an hour. I don't care what you're doing. But for this season, like Rachel said says until you get that pipeline built up, I would press pause on college. That particular degree, that's not going to do much for you to be completely honest. I'm not poo pooing it. I'm just saying that can press pause and we can go back to that. You got too many balls up in the air right now. You're living with family, you got a little kid, you're trying a whole new business. It's all on you. It's door to door, hustle, hustle, hustle. You have never made any money to speak speak of and I just think there's too much going on. So I would if I were you and I had a wife and child, I'd want to get them out of my, my in laws house. I'd Want to go live on my own. And I'd want to have a day job and then work on this dream job as you can. But you don't have time for this new business idea and college. I don't think. Am I being too harsh, Rachel?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I don't think you're too harsh. I mean, I, Yeah, I, I mean the, the issue with what you're doing real estate wise is again, you, you have to have a lot of contacts.

[Caller]

You.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, because the wholesale, it's a, it's a flip.

[Ken Coleman]

You could go 90, 120 days with no income. Matthew.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You understand what we're saying?

[Rachel Cruz]

That's what makes me nervous.

[Caller]

Right?

[Ken Coleman]

And I don't like that.

[Caller]

The thing about the pipeline is so the city that I live In, I'm actually two and a half hours south of St. Louis. It's just the closest major city. But my city, city has a registered landlord's list. I've went through the entire list. I've contacted every single person. I have a very extensive buyers list.

[Rachel Cruz]

I actually, yeah, I mean, you could keep hustling it for sure.

[Caller]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

I'd have a backup plan, but I.

[Rachel Cruz]

Would just have that backup plan to make sure you have some income coming in in case, you know, something dries up in the real estate market. It is a, it's kind of a. And down, you know, a little fickle, but yeah, I just like a safety net of knowing that there's a paycheck coming in and it may not be the dream job, but at least we have that until this other venture really starts picking up. So that, that's what I would do.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home. Scared doesn't even begin to cover it. But I got mad enough to change. I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money. That journey became the total money makeover, a plan everyday people can use to take control of their money. Millions have changed their lives following the plan in this book and found hope. Start your makeover [e-mail] store.

[Ken Coleman]

Michael's up next in Seattle, Washington. Michael, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, thank you so much for having me on the show.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

So my question is, my grandparents are reaching the last stage of their life and they're getting there. You're getting their affairs in order, the will and everything like that. And they want to leave the house to both my cousin and I. I don't want to live in the house, but my cousin does. I'm wondering if they leave the house to me in my name, but my cousin lives in it. How will that affect me? I just, I don't want to set myself up for a bad scenario.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, because if he doesn't pay taxes or something, it all goes back to you. I mean, you would be responsible for everything that he does, so. I wouldn't do that. I'd have him buy you out. Are you both going to be on the deed? Are they putting both of you?

[Caller]

So we, that's, that's the other thing is my cousin, she's diabetic and she might need like state assistance with her medication and everything like that. So they want to leave the house just to me, but my cousin wants to live in it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, then she just needs to buy it from you.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, I mean she's, she's currently 17. Oh, I don't know if she's gonna have the money for that.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, she won't.

[Ken Coleman]

Well then why don't you just take the house House and sell it. You don't want to live in it, so take it from them and then.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sell it because the 17 year old thinks she wants to live in it. So it's a conversation with her, Michael. So here's the deal. I would not base a major asset on a 17 year old's thinking that they want to live here because she's going to go off to college and you know, meet, so I don't know, whatever, live her life. And she's. And, and you have waited, waited four or five years for her to come back to buy this house down the road. And.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, here's what I'm confused about. The way you set it up, Michael. You told us that the grandparents want to leave it to both of you, but now what you've told us is they're actually going to put it in your name. So the reason I'm bringing that up is have they promised her that she gets to live in it?

[Caller]

So she told them that she wants to live in it. They haven't really made like an exact, I guess a promise promise, but we both wanted to keep the house in the family because I guess it's just nostalgia. I know it's a bad reason, but.

[Ken Coleman]

Not necessarily nostalgia is not a bad reason as long as you manage it well. So that's what I'm trying to understand here is what are the expectations? Because the way you let out it was they want to leave the house to us. And so I'm Getting a strong feeling that she's expecting to live in this because of the way it's been communicated to both of you from the grandparents. It's. Is that true?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. Now we got it. Okay. The reason I'm bringing that up because Rachel, that gets to a much stickier situation.

[Rachel Cruz]

Now, is the house paid for? Michael?

[Caller]

The house is fully paid for, yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh. So the only thing you would have to take care of is upkeep and utilities.

[Caller]

Yes. And I, I discussed this with my cousin that I wouldn't have an issue with her living here as long as she was able to keep up on the property. It's about an eight acre and it's a three story house though. It's a lot of cleaning and a lot of maintenance and I don't think she understands really the upkeep cost of an older house like this.

[Ken Coleman]

So then that's on you. She's seven. How old are you?

[Caller]

Yeah, 21.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Both of your frontal lobes aren't even done developing. And I'm not saying that in an unkind way, but you're going to have to over explain this to a 17 year old.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's like that, that's a, that's a curse. Like you do not need to know a 17 year old, even when she doesn't.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'm with you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, but I'm just telling him, I'm.

[Ken Coleman]

Addressing what he just said. Do we have a communication problem? She doesn't get what it's going to take to take care of a three story, one acre deal. She, you mentioned the fact that she's got diabetes. You didn't do that just to throw it out there. That means she's got some health complications with that. So that adds to this deal. So her being 17, physical issues. Issues. I'm with Rachel. This is a no go and you're gonna have to break her heart and you're gonna maybe have to sit down with grandma and grandpa and help have.

[Rachel Cruz]

Them help because it's unfair for you to hold all this weight and responsibility and holding out on something for a 17 year old to make a decision later. Where your, where are your parents in all of this?

[Caller]

Where are her parents?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. And yours?

[Caller]

My parents, I guess they don't really know much about this scenario. They're separated and they live very far away from me. Each other. And her parents, they don't want the house. I think it's too much house. And they have no issue with her having the house. But I don't think they understand all the responsibility that goes into managing this much property either.

[Ken Coleman]

Now you got some checked out parents on both sides, so Rachel's right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I think this is a curse. So Rachel, how do you handle this? You sit down, put yourself in his position, you're going to go talk to the grandparents. What are you saying?

[Rachel Cruz]

If. I mean, it's. I feel like it sounds heartless, but honestly, I mean, once they pass, if they leave you this asset, Michael and I would want to be very clear of what their expectations are for her. Because if they want her to be part owner, but they're not putting her on the deed for some reason that in good faith you would sell the home, you would split the proceeds 50, 50, and you both get a great inheritance out of it, and you go live your lives and you go buy a house that you want to buy later in life. But if, but if, if the deed is in your name and she then is going to somehow live there, that's not good for her later because she's not building equity in any anything. And then also it's a risk on your end because your name's on the deed. And if she doesn't pay taxes and upkeep like what you're saying, then you get a demolished property, you know, four years later, whatever. It just. Nothing really ends up well, unless. Michael, you said my grandparents are giving me their house. I love their house. I love this house. It's where I've wanted to live and raise my kids forever and ever. And it's great. Your, your name's on the deed, you get the house and everything's great, but it's this entanglement of another person who's not even of age to go cigarettes. I mean, I'm like, she's not even 18.

[Ken Coleman]

I love your.

[Rachel Cruz]

And it's unfair for her too, Michael, because life changes and for her to feel then this responsibility of having to go back to Seattle if she goes off somewhere for school because her cousin has the grandparents who passed home and she said she was going to. I don't know. It just gets.

[Ken Coleman]

How much is the house worth?

[Caller]

I'm actually not sure. So the house isn't actually in Seattle. It's in a small town in eastern Washington. And it's. It's probably worth about 400,000, maybe 350.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let's play Rachel's idea out. Okay. Don't you think you could sell the vision to grandparents and to your cousin? Let's say it's worth 400. And Rachel's good faith idea. I thought was great. 200 to you, 200 to her. And we go our separate ways. What a wonderful. And what a wonderful heritage that is for both of you young people. How does that sit with you?

[Caller]

Well, I think deep down I know that is the right decision to make because I don't know that she'd be able to keep up with all this property. And I know that I really do love this house and I love this property, and I have a lot of great memories here, but I just don't want to live in this town. I get it at the end of the day.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's great. I feel the same way. Parents house. I mean, I. I 100%.

[Ken Coleman]

So go take a bunch of pictures of it. Do some video.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Make some memories. Put it in a box. Sell the house, man.

[Caller]

Yeah. I think that'll be the right choice. I do too of that, but.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, she doesn't have much say, cuz her name's not on the deed of the home. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

This is you and this is you and mama. Mama.

[Rachel Cruz]

You want to be gentle with her for sure, pal.

[Ken Coleman]

Whatever their names are. Everybody's got different names. I'm struggling here. I don't know why I got off on those vows like I did.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because also, Michael. Yes. And I. Not only is the upkeep and everything for her, but her being handcuffed to a property, I don't like that for her. She needs to go.

[Ken Coleman]

Michael. You've told us twice in this call. She can't handle it. She can't handle it.

[Caller]

I'm not certain that she can't handle it. And I know that she'll also be older when. I mean, they're not knocking on death's door or anything.

[Rachel Cruz]

You just said at the beginning of this that they're about to die.

[Caller]

Oh, they're. They're not like, about to die that morbid.

[Ken Coleman]

It wasn't quite. Rachel's burying them right now.

[Caller]

Oh, my God.

[Ken Coleman]

They're vibrant. They walk three miles every day. God bless them. They're fine. Here's the deal.

[Caller]

My grandpa probably has a year and a half and my. My grandma doesn't show up.

[Rachel Cruz]

There's nothing's on fire though. Nothing on. Let some stuff play out. Time will tell as well. She may be turn 18, 19, and she may fall in love. I don't know. Time will tell.

[Ken Coleman]

Michael, I think you're waffling here. I don't like it. You know what you should do? You got to go talk to mama and papa.

[Rachel Cruz]

And nothing has to be stressed right now. To your point, like, I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. God bless the grandparents. They're doing well. Rachel.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm so sorry.

[Ken Coleman]

These are tough. These are tough. I know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sometimes you get in these casual moments and you kind of forget that you're like.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, he did say. I did get the impression they might.

[Rachel Cruz]

The way he started the call made it feel like. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, he did say his grandfather's got a year and a half, so. I mean, that's not.

[Rachel Cruz]

That was later in the call, though, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I know. I'm saying, to your point, I. I'm. I'm bailing you out.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

I can see how you got there. You got a big heart. You love old people. Nobody questions that.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Ken Coleman]

Our scripture of the day comes from Ecclesiastes 5, verse 5. It is better that you should not vow then that you should vow and not pay. And our quote from Sam Ewing, inflation is when you pay $15 for the $10 haircut you used to get for $5 when you had hair. So there you go.

[Rachel Cruz]

There's a little mental gymnastics there.

[Ken Coleman]

Felt like we should have saved that one for when Dave was here. I, on the other hand, got quite the frock up here. Or as the kids call it, lettuce. Have you heard this? What? No. So I play pickleball every Wednesday night, and there's a bunch of 20 something guys in this, and I wear a headband.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, you do.

[Ken Coleman]

For functionality. I love it because this. This stuff right here gets wet and floppy and gets in my eyes, and so I walk out, and they're always saying stuff like, oh, look at the lettuce on that guy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I know. I kind of like all this Gen Z verb.

[Ken Coleman]

I know. I'm trying my.

[Rachel Cruz]

I can't keep up with it.

[Ken Coleman]

I can't either. I asked my kids to do something, they'll go, bet. Have you heard that one?

[Rachel Cruz]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, like, hey, son, can you do this? Bet. I guess that means yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

I guess that's good.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm always guessing. I don't know.

[Rachel Cruz]

I said chewy the other day in a meeting.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't even know what that.

[Rachel Cruz]

And all the Gen Z girls were like, that's out. And I was like, wait a second.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's pause for just a second. What is.

[Rachel Cruz]

I learned this word, and apparently it's dunzo. It's like something that used to be cool, like, 10, 15 years ago, and it's not anymore. So it's like fashion or something. And you see someone, you're like, it's kind of chewy like.

[Ken Coleman]

And so you used.

[Rachel Cruz]

And then I used it thinking I was like part of the girls. They all looked and they're like, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And apparently Chugi is cheugy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that's. That's it.

[Ken Coleman]

So catching on, James. I can't keep up in the dad brain. All right. Chad is up in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Michigan, Chad, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking the call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

So I have a debt question for you guys. My wife and I have about $180,000 in debt right now, and we are trying to figure out the best approach and what to tackle first in order to get this paid down as soon as possible.

[Rachel Cruz]

What's the 180?

[Caller]

It is about 110 in student loans. My wife has a master's in OT, so about 100 is for that. And then 10 is mine from a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering. And then there's about 55 in medical debt and personal loans that we are very fortunate for a relative to be able to pay for that rather than us having to go through a bank. Two years back, my wife was diagnosed with brain cancer, so we had.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh, Chad.

[Caller]

Yep. Ask. Ask some. Well, not ask, but we were fortunate for them to offer to. To pay for that, so we didn't have to go through the bank. So that's interest free, which is very nice.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is that the 55 you're talking about?

[Caller]

Yep, yep, that's the 55. And then the rest of it 14 is in a car payment.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. How's she doing?

[Caller]

She's good. Remission as of almost. Almost two years now. Yeah, we're very fortunate.

[Rachel Cruz]

Gosh. Thank God. Oh, is she. What's she making on in her job?

[Caller]

She's the occupational therapist. She makes about 85k.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, and what do you make?

[Caller]

About 125 OTE. 50 of it is bonus.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Wow, that's great.

[Ken Coleman]

Great salary. So we can do some damage here for sure.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I mean, the way we talk about getting out of debt is just smallest debt to largest debt. And so for you guys, the car will be the first thing you'll tackle, and it's regardless of interest rates. And so Even though the 55 is interest free and interest is starting to kick in on the student loans, I know soon, but I would still keep that in the middle. So I would just. Yep. I would. I would pay off the car. How much margin do you guys have a month if you were to do a really, really, really strict budget and lived on nothing?

[Caller]

We do a really Strict budget right now. The way that I have it broken down is without the bonuses, we're planning on throwing every single dollar of that that comes in over the next few years into it. So without that, we bring in about 8200. I'm putting 15% into my 401k. I would assume that you guys would probably say to Pause that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep, pause. Pause that.

[Caller]

Okay, so we'll back that off. Total after tax is about 8,200amonth. After all of our expenses, we're currently paying 500 to the relative, 500 to the car. And then after that we've got about 3,400. So.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, how much would be in that retirement if you were to plug that back in, if that was back in your paycheck, how much extra would that be a month?

[Caller]

I think it's around 50, something like that.

[Ken Coleman]

How much you broke up?

[Caller]

About 450.

[Rachel Cruz]

450. Okay, that's amazing. So you guys will have close to $4,000.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Per month to throw at this debt.

[Ken Coleman]

And that's not including. They're putting 500 towards the medical debt to family. So if you were to do it the way we teach, which is everything goes at the core car.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. You could actually.

[Caller]

Now you're actually 14 in savings.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, hello. Well, that's telling. What we do with that?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, what would we do? Can we pay that off?

[Ken Coleman]

So we take 13,000 out of that. Cuz we teach the baby steps. Are you familiar with Baby Step 1, which is $11,000 in savings for an emergency? So if you scare.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's going to scare y' all to death.

[Ken Coleman]

This is. But if you've got 14, here's how we teach it. You take 13 tonight. Okay. And you pay off. You pay it towards the car. And that's going to leave you with a thousand left on the car. And then the next month you're not going to pay the family 500.

[Rachel Cruz]

You're going to take and ask. Because we do say pay minimum payments on everything, but since it's just the family, I don't know if that's. I don't know if that 500 is covering their.

[Ken Coleman]

If it's their minimum requirement.

[Rachel Cruz]

Was it their cash or did they take a loan and they. Their name?

[Caller]

No, it was their cash.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

They were able to stack up some money throughout their lifetime. Well, if you're in a good spot to help.

[Rachel Cruz]

Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, yeah, I mean, you'll pay off the car, you guys, I mean, in.

[Ken Coleman]

The next month the car's gone.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, for sure. So that's done. And then be working out towards that medical debt. And then, I mean, within, you know, 12 months or so, you got 14 months, you'll have that paid off, which is incredible. And then another, probably two years on that student loan loan. And I would. Do you guys have kids?

[Caller]

No, but that's something that we're. We're wanting to get our finances in order here before that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

You know, we definitely do. We definitely want to buy a house and everything, but, you know, don't wait.

[Rachel Cruz]

On kids for this. If you guys want kids, go to have kids. People have kids all the time while they do baby step two or.

[Caller]

Yeah, my wife will love to hear that.

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, people. George Camel. I always laugh because he's always the one. George is always like. I mean, it's just really nice when you don't have any debt, no kid. And I'm like. But I. But also, yeah, you Look. You look 10 years down the road. You're like, I wish we had started early.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, George doesn't even buy himself anything nice.

[Rachel Cruz]

I know, I know.

[Ken Coleman]

It's very cheap.

[Rachel Cruz]

So people have other opinions. But I would always say get married, have kids, live your life, and then bring your money, journey along with that. So I'll throw that out there, but you guys decide that. But yeah, I mean, I would make it a goal chat. It'd be really aggressive. But in, in three years, see if you guys can pay this off. And if I'm asking, asking if you guys have kids, because you don't right now. So I would be working both of you over time because you could take this three years down to easily two and a half. Two years and three months. I mean. I mean. And then maybe you get a raise too, in the midst of all of this. I mean, you could really be aggressive on this.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the car payment?

[Caller]

Car payments, 370. What we're paying. We've been paying 500 on it.

[Ken Coleman]

I know, but I'm getting my. My point is, is you're getting a raise on that too, so you're just gonna roll.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, that's true. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm just telling you, you've got well over 4,000. You got a bit over $4,000 of discretionary income, which is not. There's no discretion. It's all going towards the debt. But, man, that's a really good sledgehammer, and you guys are going to see tremendous momentum. I'm tell you what, when you see that medical debt dip below 20,000. I just got a sense and I'm making the 20,000 up arbitrarily. But somewhere in there, you guys, because Rachel and I've done enough debt free. Screams Somewhere after you've paid the car off and you've made a pretty big, big chunk on that personal loan on medical, given the, the, the circumstances around that, it was scary.

[Rachel Cruz]

You want it out.

[Ken Coleman]

You're gonna feel great. You guys are going to get to experience some severe momentum. It's a fun thing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. But get that momentum started, Chad, with honestly paying off this car in the next month. And I know it's scary going down to a thousand dollars. And if something happens in the middle of it, if you guys get pregnant.

[Ken Coleman]

You guys can cash flow any amount emergency.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right. That's right. You guys have a great income and so do it. Because you guys need a little spark in all of this. Like if you guys are starting this off, this is like a boom. Like the fact that you have a paid off car in the driveway next month. That's crazy. That's crazy. So I would.

[Ken Coleman]

I think you could move some money around. I'll bet you could pay this car off tonight, couldn't you?

[Caller]

Definitely. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I paid off tonight. Surprise. The wife.

[Rachel Cruz]

Don't surprise me.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no. Say, babe, I paid the car off.

[Rachel Cruz]

No. Oh, tell her. Do you. Let's pay the car.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a fun surprise.

[Rachel Cruz]

She may kill him. I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, car.

[Rachel Cruz]

But do it, Chad. Do it.

[Caller]

Awesome. Thank you, guys.