Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – Episode: Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth Release Date: April 7, 2025

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Introduction

In the April 7, 2025 episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey and co-host Jade Washaw delve into strategies for avoiding financial scams and building genuine wealth. Throughout the episode, they address callers facing various financial dilemmas, offering expert advice rooted in Ramsey’s proven principles. The episode emphasizes the importance of disciplined financial planning, skepticism towards high-risk investments like cryptocurrency, and the value of solid budgeting and debt management.

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Caller Segments

1. Tanner’s Family Law Struggles

   • Issue: Tanner from Oklahoma City seeks guidance on managing excessive attorney fees related to simultaneous custody disputes with his ex-wife and ex-girlfriend. These legal battles are consuming over half of his paycheck, threatening his ability to see his children.

   • Advice:

     • Dave Ramsey (02:54): “The overall answer to your question is this is not only consuming your money, it's consuming your brain.”
     • Emphasizes the need for a more aggressive legal strategy and hiring a competent attorney to navigate the complex custody landscape.
     • Encourages maintaining focus on priority goals rather than getting bogged down by the chaotic legal process.

2. Brian’s Crypto Scam Catastrophe

   • Issue: Brian from Pittsburgh reports that his husband invested $30,000 from his 401(k) into cryptocurrency, which has now scammed them out of $270,000. This loss jeopardizes their retirement savings and creates significant tax liabilities.

   • Advice:

     • Dave Ramsey (27:43): “He needs to understand that this has extreme consequences because he not only did something stupid, he lied about it at length.”
     • Urges Brian’s husband to fully acknowledge the mistake and commit to rebuilding their financial foundation by maximizing retirement accounts like 401(k)s and Roth IRAs.
     • Highlights the dangers of high-risk investments and stresses the importance of transparency and accountability in financial decisions within a marriage.

3. Anna’s Inheritance Investment Dilemma

   • Issue: Anna from Austin, Texas, inherited money and chose to invest in “Christian-friendly” stocks through a financial advisor. Her investment has underperformed compared to her brother’s traditional portfolio, leading to questions about the efficacy of her ethical investment choices.

   • Advice:

     • Dave Ramsey (11:18): “Don't put the money in things you don't know what they are.”
     • Discusses the importance of diversification and understanding investment vehicles. Points out that ethically selective investing may limit growth and complicate portfolio management.
     • Encourages focusing on proven investment strategies like mutual funds while aligning investments with personal values without overcomplicating the process.

4. Colby’s Real Estate Conundrum

   • Issue: Colby from Des Moines, Iowa, inherited two apartment buildings from his late father and is debating whether to keep or sell them. Managing these properties alongside his YouTube and clothing brand ventures poses significant stress.

   • Advice:

     • Dave Ramsey (43:53): “Is to decide what's best for your mom. Not what your dad wanted.”
     • Recommends selling the more problematic 12-unit building to alleviate financial and emotional stress, allowing Colby and his mother to focus on more manageable investments.
     • Stresses the importance of aligning financial decisions with the well-being of all involved, especially in the wake of unexpected inheritances.

5. Eric and Cassie’s Debt-Free Achievement

   • Issue: Eric and Cassie from Louisville, Kentucky, share their journey of paying off $283,000 in debt within two years and eight months, transitioning from debt to becoming young millionaires.

   • Highlights:

     • Emphasize the effectiveness of Ramsey’s Baby Steps and disciplined budgeting.
     • Attribute their success to teamwork, commitment, and leveraging Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover strategies.
     • Celebrate their upcoming milestones, including buying a home outright and preparing for parenthood without financial burdens.

6. Marissa’s Mortgage Dilemma

   • Issue: Marissa from Baltimore is uncertain whether to invest her limited retirement savings into purchasing a townhouse or continue renting to bolster her retirement fund.

   • Advice:

     • Dave Ramsey (75:55): “If you put down 50 grand on a townhouse, you're going to pretty substantial payment.”
     • Advises thorough research on rental markets and roommate options before making a substantial investment.
     • Reiterates the importance of adhering to the 25% income rule for housing to maintain financial stability.

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Host Discussions and Insights

1. Credit Unions vs. Big Banks

   • Dave Ramsey (30:32): Advocates for credit unions over traditional banks, highlighting their nonprofit status and customer-centric approach that often results in better savings rates and lower fees.
   • Caller TJ shares a positive experience with Fairwinds Credit Union, emphasizing its user-friendly services and exceptional customer support.

2. Investing Philosophy: Slow and Steady vs. High-Risk Ventures

   • Dave Ramsey (34:01): Criticizes the greed-driven mentality behind high-risk investments like cryptocurrency, advocating instead for the time-tested strategy of slow and steady investing.
   • Discusses the importance of long-term investment horizons, diversification, and avoiding the pitfalls of day trading, which statistically leads to significant losses for most participants.

3. Handling Media-Induced Panic

   • Dave Ramsey (56:11): Addresses the public’s overreactions to short-term market fluctuations, urging investors to maintain perspective and avoid making hasty financial decisions based on sensationalist news.
   • Emphasizes resilience and disciplined investment strategies as keys to navigating economic downturns without incurring unnecessary losses.

4. Business and Financial Planning

   • Dave Ramsey (pre-52:23): Promotes his upcoming book, Build a Business You Love, which outlines a systematic approach to running a small business using principles similar to the Baby Steps.
   • Encourages business owners to adopt structured financial planning and leadership strategies to foster growth and sustainability.

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Concluding Insights

The episode reinforces Dave Ramsey’s core financial principles:

• Debt Management: Prioritize paying off debts aggressively to free up financial resources and reduce stress.
• Investment Discipline: Favor diversified, low-risk investments over speculative ventures to build lasting wealth.
• Budgeting: Implement and adhere to a strict budgeting plan to ensure all expenses are covered while working towards financial goals.
• Financial Education: Continuously educate oneself on financial matters to make informed decisions and avoid common pitfalls.
• Teamwork: Foster open communication and joint accountability in financial planning, especially within family units.

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Notable Quotes

• Dave Ramsey (02:54): “This is not only consuming your money, it's consuming your brain.”
• Dave Ramsey (11:18): “Don't put the money in things you don't know what they are.”
• Dave Ramsey (34:01): “Slow and steady. Slow and steady. Slow and steady. They're freaking boring is what they are.”
• Dave Ramsey (56:11): “If you have a long-term mentality, those of us that have been investing in the market steadily for 30 or 40 years, we smile when it goes down and buy more. It's on sale.”
• Dave Ramsey (75:58): “You're making too much money to have only paid off 32,000 since October of '23. You're not Gazelle intense at all.”

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Conclusion

In this episode, The Ramsey Show provides listeners with actionable advice on avoiding financial scams, making informed investment choices, and achieving debt-free living. Through real-life caller scenarios and expert guidance, Dave Ramsey and Jade Washaw underscore the importance of disciplined financial management, long-term investment strategies, and maintaining focus amidst financial upheavals. The episode serves as a comprehensive guide for individuals seeking to build genuine wealth while sidestepping common financial traps.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show. Where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Washaw, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality, she's my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Tanner's in Oklahoma City. Hey Tanner, what's up?

[Caller (Tanner)]

Hi, Mr. Ramsey, how's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller (Tanner)]

I, I'm, I'm in some, I'm dealing with some family law issues and it's kind of taken over half of every one of my paychecks and I'm kind of dealing with a dilemma where I'm trying to find the balance between trying to do what's right for my kids and be financially responsible at the same time.

[Jade Washaw]

Can you elaborate a little bit? What are you going through?

[Caller (Tanner)]

So, sure. I had a son when I was 22, still in college, and, and I later divorced my wife that I had that son with. Then shortly before I graduated, I had a girlfriend and we got pregnant. She disappeared on me while we were pregnant.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay.

[Caller (Tanner)]

And shortly after I, right before, as I was about to graduate, you know, every month I was having to spend several hundred dollars towards attorney fees to get, you know, custodial. That. Yes, originally.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay, so you found her. Then what happened?

[Caller (Tanner)]

So the, then around a couple months before I graduated, both of these custody disputes kind of started being simultaneous and in tandem. So my ex wife, we had 50, 50 when we divorced. I was seeing my son every week for the whole week and I had him and then we would trade off like that. She and the ex girlfriend, they became buddies and they just both started. I've never met my daughter that I have with the ex girlfriend and my son I haven't seen in over a year. So this isn't any petty dispute over, you know, who gets the teddy bear that he liked when we divorced and then, you know, whose house does that stay at? It's like I, if I don't spend all this money on these attorneys, foreseeably I won't see my kids at all. Can I ask at the same time.

[Jade Washaw]

Can I ask you a question and just be honest? As much as you're willing to be. Do they have a reason that they're keeping these kids from you?

[Caller (Tanner)]

No.

[Jade Washaw]

Is there a real reason there? Like did word, did you go, were you an alcoholic? Did you, was there something there?

[Caller (Brian)]

Drugs?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller (Brian)]

Alcohol?

[Caller (Tanner)]

No. Abuse? The second axis is trying to, has tried to, you know, throw out abuse allegations, but it's It's. You know that. That's.

[Jade Washaw]

So there's allegations. There are allegations, but you're saying they're not true.

[Caller (Tanner)]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay. Got it.

[Caller (Tanner)]

Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller (Tanner)]

I make 78.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller (Tanner)]

I just turned 30 in January.

[Dave Ramsey]

And this dispute, the legal bills have been going on one year.

[Caller (Tanner)]

I would say they've been going on since about summer of 2021. And they've only kind of increased and gotten worse.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I'm confused as to why the judge hasn't ruled on this in four and a half years.

[Caller (Tanner)]

Well, the. So the. My written with my son, we had a totally.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. You told me. You told us that. So why, if it's been going on since 21, that she's been reneging on what the divorce decree said, why is a judge not ruled on in four years?

[Caller (Tanner)]

Well, it's different judges in different states with my daughter's case.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no, no, no. Back to your son. Let's just stick with that.

[Caller (Tanner)]

My son? Yeah, sure. Okay. So with my son, it's a very small town in Oklahoma, and I guess the court's docket just gets really backed up. I fight. Last year, I was supposed to have my son for spring break. She texted me the night before, said she wasn't going to give them to me. And so I filed something immediately. I got a lawyer. We showed up to a hearing in May of last year, and they kind of ran the clock on that hearing to where we weren't really done with was 5:30. And the judge said, y'all go home. We'll schedule for another date that, you know, because we've run out of time that got scheduled out until late summer last year, like into August. And then my attorney, I had died, and now I've got a different attorney, and I've got something scheduled for middle of April. Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

And you're trying for 50, 50. That's all you want? 50, 50 on the.

[Dave Ramsey]

On the original child. Okay. So the overall. The overall answer to your question is this is not only consuming your money, it's consuming your brain. And so. And you have relied on legal counsel that sucked. So you need to get a lawyer that is much smarter and much meaner than the lawyer that you've had. It's way past time playing nice here. And so we need to make an example out of these people. I'm going to start filing with social Services. I'm going to file 60 different ways. I'm going to make all of these people's lives miserable. So we can put an end to this. And so you guys have been trying to. You've been trying to play real sweet, real nice. And your lawyer was old, and then he died, and he was playing nice with the small town judge instead of just going in there and raising hell. And so you need an attorney that you don't even like. That kind of mean attorney, okay? And it's so smart, and. And they're a little more expensive usually, but they're worth it. So. And try to bring it to a head. That's the only answer I know for you. But just talking to you for four minutes is exhausting. Listening to what you've been through, and it's so chaotic. It's all over the place. It's left, right turn, flip, back flip, double flip, turn, right turn, left turn. There's all these different moving parts, and it just takes up. You're burning all your calories on these issues. And so, you know, you got to spend the right amount of money in a short period of time and blow everything up. Or you've got to turn and talk about, you know, what's the right thing to do. I tried to be in my son's life. I tried to be in this child that was born outside of wedlock, his life. I tried to do that. And instead, what I got is crazy women. And so, you know, I don't know. I can't tell you. You're going to have to measure how far into this you go. But I can tell that there's no systematic anything in your description of this. And that tells me that you're getting the run around rather than giving the run around. And so in a lawsuit situation, sometimes the best defense is a good offense. And so I want you to file like. I want attorneys filing, like, seven motions every morning just to piss everybody off, including the judge. I'm just gonna screw with people for a living for a short period of time and just knock the snot out of everyone to where they're all back on their heels and they're all burning calories trying to keep up with you instead of the other way around. It's your only shot here. Or you need to flip and just walk and let the thing die. And then they'll come wandering in, maybe wanting child support. Oh, wait, maybe now we get a hearing. Okay, interesting. Money's tied to this, so. I don't know, Tanner. I can't tell what's going on. I can just tell that you're worn out and that you've been getting the run around rather than giving the run around. I can feel that. And that's where all your money is going. Because the legal system is, is not a just system and it is not a good system. It sucks and it will drain you dry. So I pray good luck for you, sir. But I don't, I think it's going to require some pretty aggressive moves beyond what you've been doing. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Brian is in Pittsburgh. Hey Brian. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller (Anna)]

Hello, Mr. Ramsey. Thanks for having me on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller (Anna)]

So recently passed away and they're with the Lord and they left myself and my brother an inheritance. We both paid off our mortgages and then we both invested. He invested in a way, I'd say the typical average way. And I sought out like a Christian financial advisor and he wanted or I invested in, I guess what we say, more Christian friendly stocks. And he invested around June last year. And so he had his money in about six months and he had made probably 50% more than what I had made with my stocks. And they had only been in there about three or four months when I, I talked to his advisor then and told her how I was investing and she said, oh, she just, she didn't say it out loud but basically what she was saying is I'm going to earn about half as Much as he is if I invest that way. So I wanted to see what your thoughts were on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, there are a couple of thoughts that come. Number one that way is you've got a small portfolio of single stocks and you can't keep up with good mutual funds, regardless of the ethical standards of the selection. So just because he's investing, he's more diversified across many, many stocks and mutual funds and so forth. I would assume, in other words, like, you got 10 or 15 stocks, he's probably got 300.

[Caller (Anna)]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

So that way, even if we take out the ethical considerations of the selection of those companies, it's not there. And so it's not just that sin pays more. Okay. It's the way. It's the way you've structured your portfolio is the thing. Now then, if you want to investigate a mutual fund that has done pretty well with that, the Timothy Plan out of Atlanta has a long track record, and they're in that one.

[Caller (Anna)]

Do what I am in that one. That's one of the. There's 10 different funds that I'm in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you're in funds you're not in? I thought you said you bought stocks.

[Caller (Anna)]

I'm not really sure what it is I just invested with them.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's ding, ding, ding. Okay? Number one, don't put the money in things. You don't know what they are. Okay? And the Timothy plan just rung a bell because it was one of the things on your list. But you don't know much about it is what you're telling me, because it has kept A up pretty close to the S and P the last time I looked at it. And they are selecting stocks that are. I guess the best way to say it is anti sin stocks, if you will. So no alcohol, no tobacco, no drug companies that are doing the abortion pill. Anything that follows an evangelical belief system. No wines, no alcohol of any kind, no tobacco of any kind, would be the two primaries. And then again, anything having to do with right to life, those sorts of things, that's where Timothy's gonna fall. And then you can get into that. Now, I like the fact that your heart is telling you to try to do this. Okay. I do wanna give you. Because my heart functions the exact same way. I don't wanna do things with money that God gave me to manage that is dishonoring to him. And that's your approach, I assume, right?

[Caller (Anna)]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Now, once I did that, then I had to think through, okay, what is really happening here? All right, let me give you an example. If you disagree with something morally that Company A is doing and so you don't buy Company A's stock. That does not. If you did buy Company A's stock anyway, that company does not get the money. I'm buying that stock from Jade, who's selling it. Unless the company is doing a Treasury issue or an initial public offering, they're not getting the money when you buy the stock.

[Jade Washaw]

That's a very good point.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're not funding the thing that they're doing when you buy their stock. Now are you benefiting when they make money from the thing that they're doing? Yes, you would be. So that would be valid. But if I buy a. You know, like George posted the other day that his Tesla reached 200,000 miles. He was real proud the battery lasted that long and we made fun of him for it. And all this. Well, some of these lefties that are going berserk on Elon, all trash George in the columns because he has no ethics. George did not buy the Tesla new. He bought it from a guy named Whatever, Joe. Joe got the money, not Elon. So there's no ethical consideration for George buying a used Tesla, nor positive or negative. He did not support Elon or, you know, whichever side of that you want to come down on. So it's just stupid people posting in Georgia's comments, which is generally who posts in comments anyway. But you know, and I was just laughing at him at lunch, he's telling me about this because he reads the comments, I don't read them. And he told me about this and I'm like, george, number one, stupid people. Number two, you didn't. You bought a used Tesla. Now Rachel bought a new Tesla. Okay, so Rachel you could track because she supported. And she didn't do it to support Elon. She did it because she wanted a car with a battery, so. Or whatever. And she didn't even do it for climate change. She did it because she thought it was cool. But anyway, so. But you see what I'm saying. So the deal, Brian, is if you're buying stock in one of these companies, you're buying it from someone else who's selling it, not from the company. That's the thing. The second thing I had to consider in my decision making period. And I'm not trying to talk you out of doing what you're doing. I think you can do what you're doing successfully if you'll manage your portfolio closer and do stuff like the Timothy Plan has done. They have proven it's doable. Okay. Now, the second thing I had to decide is I also do business in other places with companies that engage in things I don't. So if you're anti alcohol and anti tobacco, I don't know where you're going to buy groceries because they sell tobacco.

[Jade Washaw]

Well, I'm thinking about oil and they. How everything goes back to oil. Like you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

I don't know how you're gonna do anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know how you're gonna support. I mean, you know, and, you know, your bank supply supports United Way, which supports Planned Parenthood, so they're doing abortions with your bank money.

[Caller (Brian)]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

But how far down this rabbit hole are you gonna go to measure everything and try to figure out who's doing what? And which CEO has got a personal life you agree with and doesn't? I can't keep up with all of it. It's too much legalism for me. And so I don't. I mean, there may be a Hustler magazine in the market inside when I bought gas out at the pub. And so I guess I supported pornography. I don't know. But I don't think. That's not how my brain works. So, like, if I don't engage somewhere in the process, I don't have any influence anymore.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I don't know. Those are some thoughts I went to. And so I quit worrying about it.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not flipping about it. I'm not gonna directly invest in a company that's doing harm to people. And if I can't stand what they're doing, I generally quit buying their products in general, just as a personal thing and makes me want to throw up. So I just don't do it. But it's not really some big boycott. It's not really some holiness thing on my part. It's more of just a temper fit.

[Jade Washaw]

I think, Dave, what you said is exactly right. Unfortunately, we do live in a broken world, and whatever you choose to focus on, there's going to be a rabbit hole. I mean, if I say, dave, who made that shirt? Where'd that come from?

[Dave Ramsey]

Was that Rut row? I got no idea.

[Jade Washaw]

You know what I'm saying? Like, you could pick anything and go down a deep rabbit hole. And as people, we can't carry all of those burdens all the time. We're not intended to. And. And that's where my brain goes. Because there's a. There's a cause, and probably a very meaningful cause underneath every stone that you turn. If you go down deep enough, and I Just think it's in a moment. What are you choosing to focus on? And I think like for him, if, if that has been a convicted area in his heart, like I said, I'm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fine with going with it. I'm just telling you how I. Yeah, yeah. And I, and I don't. So I don't spend an inordinate amount of time trying to only find quote, unquote, ethical stocks to invest in. Yeah, it's just, and that's my reasoning, mainly because their company's not getting the money anyway and I, and I don't think George benefit because I'm positive. George did not benefit Elon by buying a used Tesla. Elon didn't get the money, stupid. That's how it worked. Come on. I mean, this is dumb. Well, it's ethical consideration. Who are you typing this on? IPhone, you moron. It was made by a child in China. I mean, come on. Geez, you people in your mother's basement with an opinion. You drive me nuts. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, technology has changed a lot in the last 30 years. Now the hot topic is AI. And I understand that it might seem intimidating, but if you use AI the right way, it's just another tool to help you work smarter and faster, like a calculator or a cordless drill. So if you run a business, you better get on board with it before you get left behind. And NetSuite by Oracle offers AI powered tools that help small businesses improve efficiency and make smarter decisions by bringing all, all their major business processes into one platform. That way there's one source of truth for the real time data you need to take advantage of opportunities. Then you can forecast better, scale more efficiently and streamline those manual tasks that take too long. So join the more than 41,000 businesses including Ramsey Solutions that rely on NetSuite to help tackle some of their biggest challenges. And right now you can download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey that's free at netsuite.com Ramsey Jade Washall, Ramsey personality is my co host. Triple 882-55-2225 Anna is in Austin, Texas. Hi Anna, how are you?

[Caller (Brian)]

Hi Dave. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller (Brian)]

Well, I received this weekend I received some devastating news that my husband was scammed out of our, his, almost his entire 401k. And now it's tax time and we're gonna have to pay taxes on it. So we have no more retirement and our savings is going to be wiped out. And I don't know where he began from here.

[Dave Ramsey]

What did he. How did he get scammed? What did he put it in?

[Caller (Brian)]

It was a crypto.

[Dave Ramsey]

Crypto.

[Caller (Brian)]

It was a. Yes.

[Jade Washaw]

How much?

[Caller (Brian)]

And 270,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

270,000?

[Caller (Brian)]

Yes, sir. There's a little bit of a backstory. I'm not making excuses for him, but there's a little bit of backstory as to why he felt financially strapped, that he felt he needed to do this to secure a financial. Our financial future.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller (Brian)]

I'm 57. He's 58. We have no debt. We paid off our home in February of 2022.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household. What's your household income?

[Caller (Brian)]

Right. I. Right now he makes approximately 98,000 annually. And I. I'm currently not working. I had to quit my job in January of 2023 because I was diagnosed with cancer. And the medication that I'm on just causes me a lot of side effects that we chose. It's better for me to stay home because we could afford it. Obviously, we have no debt again. And he was. I think he was looking into securing our future so that he may be able to retire early. He started doing some research as to how to invest money he knows nothing about. He's not educated in that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your voice is fairly muffled. Speak directly into your phone, please.

[Caller (Brian)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go.

[Caller (Brian)]

He's not. Okay. He's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. He's obviously. Even if he is educated, he's not wise.

[Jade Washaw]

And he got desperate. It sounded like he.

[Caller (Brian)]

He did.

[Dave Ramsey]

And right after I get desperate, I usually get stupid.

[Caller (Brian)]

That's what it was. And. Oh. So that happened in January 2024. In about March or April, he came up to me and told me that. That he invested a little bit of money. And I was like, okay. And he says. And he showed me that it was. He showed me the app, and he showed me that the money was. I mean, we had made it. Made about three or four hundred thousand. And I said, okay, how much did you invest? And he told me at that time, he said, 30,000. I said, what did you get the money from? Because I take care of all the banking. And he said that he pulled it out of the 401k. And I said, okay, dumb mistake, you know, we'll get. We'll get through this. I found a temporary job. I made enough money to cover the taxes I made. I calculated we probably owe about 6,000 taxes. I said, okay, great. Well, I'll take care of it. And I'll get a permanent job so it won't affect our savings. And now that it's tax time, I kept looking for the form that comes in the 1099 R, I believe. And he kept making excuses as to why he hasn't gotten. He had. We hadn't received it, so I kind of had a feeling that it was worse than what I knew and that it was worse than what he had told me. And this weekend he gave me the paper and it was 270,000. So now we will have to.

[Dave Ramsey]

And now it's worth zero, of course.

[Caller (Brian)]

Yes. Well, he. I looked at it last night, and there was about 16,000 in it right now.

[Jade Washaw]

But was it really a scam or did he just lose? Like, did he get scammed by a scammer or he invested the money and he lost the investment?

[Caller (Brian)]

No, it wasn't an actual scammer. I had demanded that I. Back when he told me it was 30,000, I demanded to know where he sent it, how he sent it. I wanted to know everything. And apparently it was a company in Hong Kong. And I looked up the address, and it's in the slums of Hong Kong. I'm like, why didn't you do the research before? Well, the thing is, now he said that it was the 200. I'm like, how can you go from 30,000 to 270,000? And he said it was about the same time he invested here in a couple of different.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this.

[Caller (Brian)]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does he now own that this is stupid or is he still defending?

[Caller (Brian)]

No, no, he owns it. He's been living with this for the past year. And it's. I mean, he had his.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, he was lying about it 20 minutes ago.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. You said he just came clean with it.

[Caller (Brian)]

Yeah, he just came clean with it. But he was living with that lie for the.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean, he's now saying out loud, I completely screwed this up.

[Caller (Brian)]

Yes, he has.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's important because otherwise he's going to do it again.

[Caller (Brian)]

Right? And he's like, I'm prepared to work till I'm 70.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, yeah, he might as well.

[Caller (Brian)]

Get a job right now. And.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, not a choice at this point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Belly up, buddy.

[Jade Washaw]

How's your. How's your health? Are you improving?

[Caller (Brian)]

It's getting there. I'm on a clinical trial. Okay. And so I'm hoping that this will be something that will, you know, give me more time. And I feel pretty good, except, you know, just the usual side effects. I mean, not the usual, but the side effects of medication. But thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm.

[Caller (Brian)]

I'm happy that, you know, every day is a good day. And I'm not going to let this bring me down, but it does scare me for our future.

[Dave Ramsey]

The good news is you have no payments. And so what he needs to do is max out his 401k, and you'll need to max out your Roth IRAs. And you need to tell him that if he makes any transactions without the two of you being in agreement ever again, that that will be the last time he'll do so as your husband.

[Caller (Brian)]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

He needs to understand that this has extreme consequences because he not only did something stupid, he lied about it at length. Deceived. Created a web, a full scenario of lies that concerns me, actually, more than his stupidity.

[Caller (Brian)]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, you know, that's a big deal. So, yeah, you guys can catch up. I mean, you can make 100, 120, and you max out your 401ks and Roths. Max out your Roths and work another 10 years, 12 years, and you will have enough of a nest egg to retire on if you don't do this again. But as soon as he gets desperate and tries to pull off a fast one, that's when you get messed over. And so. Ouch. I'm so sorry, honey. With everything you're facing, it's just not fair. Wow. All right, guys, let me give you a couple principles on that. There's a guy who scammed a bunch of people and wrote a book from jail in the 70s. The book he wrote about himself was con man or saint. Obviously he thought he was a saint, but he was in jail, so he was a con man. Okay, but I read that book in the early 80s as a teenager, early 20s. And the only thing I really got out of the book was he said it's almost impossible to con someone unless they are afraid or greedy. This guy was afraid. His wife had cancer. He's trying to get a bunch of money so that he cannot have to work and take care of her. And he got desperate based on fear. And that set him up in the emotional category to be conned. The other crypto people that get conned are the greedy ones. They're trying to make double your money in 20 minutes. Because I'm the cool kid and I'm the smart one, and I grew up with a cell phone in my hand, a smartphone in my hand, so I know everything about digital. No, you don't. You're a greedy fool, and you're going to lose your butt in crypto. Also. The second thing you can, you can do is who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above Rudy Ruby's. The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain if you have to hide the investment or the financial move from your spouse. Warning, warning, warning. You're screwing up. I have no lack of gain because, Sharon, I talk about it before we do it, and it keeps me on the rails. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Caller (TJ)]

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions, possibly. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why, why is that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, credit unions, for one thing, are nonprofit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. And what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric.

[Caller (TJ)]

Yes, well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really, really good job with customer service and, and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

[Caller (TJ)]

Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller (TJ)]

And I'm not kidding, it took, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I, I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with [e-mail] or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys know how much I hate banks in general and so for me to do, this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

[Caller (TJ)]

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. That's F A I R w I n d s.org Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

It sounds too good to be true. It is. That'll keep you from getting scammed too. If you think you found the one place in the history of man that you can double your money easy and quick, you're about to be scammed. Sounds too good to be true. It is. It's one of my gripes about crypto. It's not the concept of crypto, it's the spirit that's around it, which is all of that quick easy money that only this cool kids can get in on. And if you're not cool and you're not digital, you're just an old boomer. Dave, you don't know. Oh yeah, I do know. Absolutely. I know completely understand how crypto works. It's not the working of it that bothers me. It's the spirit of greed that's around it, which is greed is different than ambition. Greed is simply I want something super fast and easy. And honestly, I just don't find that in the money world. I find slow and steady. Every time I meet wealthy people that have built wealth and have sustained it. They are the tortoise, they're not the hare.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Slow and steady. Slow and steady. Slow and steady. Slow and steady. They're freaking boring is what they are. Slow and steady. There's no flash. They're not on the COVID of Fast Company magazine. They're on the COVID of Slow Company magazine. Slow and steady. Not in a hurry. It's okay. I'm not desperate, I'm not greedy, I'm not fearful. Slow and steady. Just slow your old boys. You won't get screwed. That's what happens. But you step up into an old bear trap when you're trying to get something for nothing quick. And whatever your motivation, that's still where you're going to end up.

[Jade Washaw]

Do you know what I think is a deeper part of that is Hopefully I can articulate this in the way I'm thinking it. When you do something that's slow and steady and it's a day after day discipline, there is more confidence that you have to put in yourself versus somebody else who's promising you results quickly. I can just quickly put my confidence in them, and they'll take care of it. That plan will take care of it. That drug will take care. Whatever that thing is, that's the quick thing. Whereas the slow and steady almost always depends mostly on you. You are the. You're the thing that's showing up week after week, month after month. Whether it's a training program or an investing slow and steady over time, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don'T feel confident in myself, so I have to find someone else I can place my confidence.

[Jade Washaw]

I think that's what's at the core of that, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, I ran into that when I used to. We used to coach all these NFL guys, and I would go into a rookie camp and try to explain to these NFL rookies. NFL stands for not for long. You're gonna be there 3.8 years on average, and you can't buy all of your cousins a house. You don't have the money. And so. But I remember talking to one of those guys. He goes, dave, I got it covered. I got me a man. And I went, I got a guy. I got a guy.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're screwed. You're about to lose all your money. When you say I got a guy, that's exactly what you're talking about right there, isn't it?

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, that's what it is. He's got it. He's got it under control.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know how to play football. I don't know anything about money. So I got a guy, and I don't have to be responsible then, because I got a guy.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's. It's all floating.

[Jade Washaw]

The responsibility.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, the. The. The. The. I didn't have to do anything. I didn't have to think. I didn't have to learn. I didn't have to grow. All I got to do is put the ball in the end zone. Mm, That's a good point. Yeah, that was interesting, because I told him, as soon as he said, I got a guy, I go, you're screwed. I don't even know who your guy is. You're screwed. I don't. I don't care who it is, because it's your responsible ability to handle this money, not his.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you're screwed. You're gonna lose it all. You're gonna be one of those people on the Dead Gum Sports Illustrated special of stupid athletes that lost all their money. You'll be the next one. And that's exactly what you're gonna be. And the other guys are laughing as I'm doing that because that's kind of exactly how I answered the question for stage. But yeah, I got a guy. Colby is next. Colby's in Des Moines, Iowa. Hi, Colby. How can we help?

[Caller (Colby)]

Mr. Ramsey, how are you today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller (Colby)]

Good deal. So I am, I'm a college student a long ways from home, halfway across the country, and I have a cattle herd that I bought from one cow and, and bred up until.

[Caller (Tanner)]

All right.

[Caller (Colby)]

Size over the last 11 years. And I'm now deciding to get out of the cattle market. And so I'm going to be selling off my cows and I'm going to have about $20,000 come into my possession. And I'm just trying to find what the best way is to safely store that money. And I've thought about investing it into a CD or some sort of retirement account or something that can build wealth over time.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're in school?

[Caller (Colby)]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you studying?

[Caller (Colby)]

Ag business.

[Dave Ramsey]

What year are you?

[Caller (Colby)]

I'm a sophomore here.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you paying for it?

[Caller (Colby)]

My parents are helping me as well as I have scholarships.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. You know what? I think the best investment Colby can make is Colby. And that means I want you to finish this degree debt free more than I want you to be a professional investor. So if I were in your shoes, I would just park this in a high yield savings as an insurance policy that you get out of school 100% debt free. And then when you get out of school, the 20,000 will have grown a little bit. Not a lot in two years, but when you get out of school, you have a little more money and you can use it to set up house and start your new life when you get out of school, if you don't need it to finish school. But you're a the actual math on you getting a four year degree, you're obviously a kid. Grew up on a farm. You're growing, you know, you grew a herd of cattle and that's back home and your dad's dad and mom's helping you get them sold off. You're gonna put that money in the bank. And now you're getting an ag business degree, which is a valuable degree. It's a degree you're actually gonna freaking use. Way to go. Good job. And so that the what you learn is going to give you a better for what you pay to learn that is going to give you a better mathematical return than putting it into a mutual fund. Because you are a better investment than a mutual fund. Literally. I mean, I'm not. Not. Not only philosophically and spiritually, but financially, you're a better investment if you know. So what you're going to make because you're getting smarter, in other words, is. Is going to be a good return on the tuition dollars. So, yeah, pay cash for your school, and when you get out, then you've got a little bit chunk sitting there if you don't touch it.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, it's perfect. That'll be your emergency fund, and it'll be your first apartment fund, which is wonderful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's the opposite of getting fancy right there. You know, if you want to take some risk with it and put some of it in a s and P500, you could. It's down right now. It's a good time. Everything's down.

[Jade Washaw]

But I feel like I'd probably still wait, though, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, I wouldn't. I would just. I would do just what I said. I just put it in a high yield savings. I don't. Because I really don't want that. I mean, if he put 10,000 of his 20 in the S&P and it goes down 2,000 bucks, which it would have in the last three weeks. Okay. You know, he's gonna freak out.

[Jade Washaw]

The only way I'd do that probably is if you had a bunch of money somewhere else that you're like, hey, I already have that. I already have my emergency fund. I already have the money set aside for, you know, and you didn't need it. But knowing that this is a short horizon and you're likely going to need the money.

[Caller (Brian)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I think. I think you get out of school and you pay cash for school, and you're studying there in Iowa. Way to go, man. Proud of you. Good. That's good stuff. I like that. Here's the other thing. We know that kids that know how to work before they get to go to college, and let me tell you what, you. You grow some cattle, you grow a little herd, you've been doing some work, like some real work. Like early in the morning, late at night, it's cold outside, all that kind of stuff. And no bitching and whining. Go get your work done. And that kid, he's set. I mean, his mom and dad have not only given him the ability to go to school, they've helped him get in school, but they also gave him work ethic. Oh, by the way, they taught him how ag business works. We just turn one cow into a small herd and over 11 years and show him how this works. And so he's, he's got hands on P and L experience.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what a gift.

[Jade Washaw]

He's going to be all right. He'll be just fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, there's something about that that we lost when the vast majority of us no longer grew up on a farm. Back when we, back when most Americans started their lives and their careers on a farm, they started life with a different, with a callus on their hands. They know how to do something.

[Jade Washaw]

I think it is important to get outside you. You're. You have to learn how to work. You got to learn how to sweat, do things that are uncomfortable very early on to win.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's, that's where winning usually comes from. So what a great kid. He's on his way. And what a great mom and dad. We salute you. Well done. You did it. You did it. You did it. It. That's cool. Very good. This is the Ramsay show.

[Caller (Carol)]

I hate to admit this, but I don't always eat right. I know I need to eat more fruits and veggies, but sometimes I just have to pound some chips because they taste so good. That's why I love my field of greens. It helps me eat healthy when I don't have much time. And each fruit and vegetable in field of greens was doctor selected for a specific health benefit. Heart, lungs, kidney, metabolism, even healthy weight. And folks, I ain't getting any younger. It's super easy to mix with water. And here is the great part of it. I thought it might taste like grass, but it tastes great. And only field of greens makes this promise. Your doctor will notice your improved health or your money back. So go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsey for 20% off your first order. That's fieldofgreens.com Ramsey to save 20% on your first order.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washall, RAMSEY Personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today TJ's in Pittsburgh. Hi, TJ, how are you?

[Caller (Colby)]

Better than I deserve.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller (Colby)]

So 10 months ago, my father unexpectedly passed away and he had two apartment buildings that inevitably fell into mine in my mother's hands. I'm an only child. So my question today is just do we keep the buildings or do we sell one?

[Jade Washaw]

Oh, only one, not both.

[Caller (Colby)]

So yeah, one of them is, it's 17 units. In total, one of the buildings is 12 units and the other one is 5 units. The 12 unit one. Whenever he passed, the initial thought was to sell them. So I just posted it on Zillow and Facebook as an off market deal and we had a lot of interest in it. We had offers for 1.3, 1.4, but the number my dad wanted was 1.5, so I really wanted to honor that and the 1.4 offer. The guy was really interested. He came and looked at everything, but the building was only. Only 7 of the units were filled and the other apartments that weren't, they all needed done. So that's why we didn't sell at that time. And that was inevitably like why everybody was turned off from buying the building. That was eight months ago. So the last eight months my mother and I have been working our butts off flipping those apartments and we now have it that 10 of the 12 are rented. So the question has been popping back up. Do we try to sell it again or do we keep the building? Both situations are a blessing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who, who owns it, you or your mom?

[Caller (Colby)]

My mother.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so it's not we. It's her.

[Caller (Colby)]

It is. It is legal.

[Dave Ramsey]

It'll be you when she does.

[Caller (Colby)]

Yes, yes, legal.

[Caller (Brian)]

We.

[Caller (Colby)]

I say legally because we work as a team. She couldn't do without me, I couldn't do without her.

[Jade Washaw]

Well, what does she want to do? What does she want to do?

[Dave Ramsey]

Why, why are you working? I mean, what do you do for a living?

[Caller (Colby)]

So I, I do YouTube full time, which. I know what that sounds like, but we, I'm in a group channel. We have 350,000 subscribers and it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make? How much are you making on YouTube?

[Caller (Colby)]

So it's different every month, but around 2,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're not making a living yet, but you're making some money. Okay. Yes. That's your only job.

[Caller (Colby)]

I also have a Christian clothing brand that I run. That's the other part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Is it profitable?

[Caller (Colby)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how old are you?

[Caller (Colby)]

24.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. The way to decide whether to keep something, I'm sorry for the loss of your dad is. Is to decide what's best for your mom. Yes. Not what your dad wanted.

[Caller (Colby)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Other than the fact he would have wanted what's best for your mom too. I'm sure. But. But now in this situation, your mom's over there flipping apartments with her 24 year old son who's a YouTuber.

[Caller (Colby)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's best for your mom? It's probably to not be in this business.

[Caller (Colby)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I guess. What do you.

[Jade Washaw]

Part of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you think?

[Caller (Colby)]

I'd say that again.

[Dave Ramsey]

I said, what do you think? Do you think it's. But that. Do you think she wants to be in it or she just got left in it?

[Caller (Colby)]

She's in a very tough situation too, because she also works full time. But we, we're surviving. We have been doing it. I mean, we're obviously thrown into it. It was all unexpected.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm hearing what you're feeling. I'm asking about her.

[Caller (Colby)]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're extrapolating the way you feel about it onto her. That's not accurate. She lost her husband. She lost her husband and she's holding. Having to hold all this together.

[Caller (Colby)]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I might be wrong, but I don't think she's having fun.

[Caller (Colby)]

No. It's not typically a fun situation. No. This is also her life insurance, quote, unquote. She was never.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it all paid off as a property clear?

[Caller (Colby)]

No. No. There's 400,000 on the mortgage for the 12 unit building. The other building is about 200,000 on the mortgage. And then her personal home is about 30,000. And then miscellaneous things come to about 12,000, $20,000.

[Caller (Tanner)]

So it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you could clear a little over a million selling the 12 unit and pay off her house and put the money in investments and her life will calm way down.

[Jade Washaw]

Why wouldn't you want to sell the 5 unit one as well? Just clear it all.

[Caller (Colby)]

The 5 unit one has been, knock on wood, a breeze. There's been very little issues and she is able, her and I are able to run that smoothly with. Without stress being thrown into the factor. It's the 12 unit one that is like every week we don't get a phone call.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you had a pile of money in the middle of the table and she had a pile of money in the middle table and own that, I don't think she'd go buy it.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. And it's only been 10 months, you said. So it's not like you guys have been doing this as a quote, breeze for years and years. So I just wonder about that statement.

[Caller (Colby)]

The owning it for 10 months.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, that it's a breeze. I think, I think Dave might be right. And it might be.

[Dave Ramsey]

At a minimum, we're getting rid of the 12 immediately for 1.4. 1.5. Yes. I would sell that because I'm looking at this situation and I'm hearing a widow that inherited her husband and her son's dream of owning real Estate. And I don't think it's her dream. I might be wrong, but I'm just reading between the lines and I'm listening to this. And the thing you've got to do, be very, very careful of TJ in this situation is to not let your desire, your dream interfere with what's best for her. And I'm not talking about what's best for her financially. I'm talking about the calories you all are burning. She's burning trying to pull all this and keep all this done while she's working a full time job. I'd put a million dollars in the bank if I were her. In a mutual fund if I were her. And I'd be out of the apartment business. And I love real estate. I'd probably buy that myself. I mean, I love that stuff. So that's not. It's not the question of the investment. It's a question of the appropriateness of the investment for the people that are involved.

[Jade Washaw]

And the good news for you, the.

[Dave Ramsey]

One that's a breeze, if it turns out not to be a breeze a year later, you could dump it too.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. And then TJ can then put more of his time into doing things that are making him money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

Instead of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Instead of working on cleaning carpet in his mother's apartment complex. Yeah. And. Which is a pain in the butt.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. I'm sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Been there, done that. It's not easy, so it's tough. Sunk cost analysis is pretend you have that pile of money and not that thing. Would you go buy that thing with that pile of money? Many times the answer is no. I'll bet you if I had a million one sitting in that lady's kitchen table and she didn't own this apartment and gave her the opportunity to go buy this apartment. Apartment. She'd say not just no, but.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what she would say. I'm just betting that I might be wrong.

[Jade Washaw]

No, you're right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm thinking she'd be. But I mean, I'm sure her husband would be like me. He was probably good at it. It's not a big deal. It's what he does and it's part of running a business and. Yeah, but it's a little different when it's left to her and the. And the son to do it. So. Yeah, don't. Don't. You can go buy some real estate with the cash after she passes away if you want to be in the real estate business, TJ but don't make your mom stay in it for your sake. This is the Ramsey show.

[Caller (TJ)]

You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family. Now you need an easy way to make sure your important financial documents are as organized as the rest of your house. Well, good news Knockbox. That's n okay box as in next of kin box is a complete system that helps you be sure that you leave happy memories, not a mess when you pass away. Knockbox is a simple way to organize important paper and digital documents, IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, accounts and other personal history in one manageable place. Your family will feel your love in every detail you take care of. So start taking care of [e-mail] Ramsey a well organized legacy is a gift to your family. That's nokbox.com Ramsey all right business owners, last call.

[Dave Ramsey]

The pre sale for the brand new book build a business You Love ends April 15th. Pre order now and get over $350 worth of free bonus items to help you hire smarter, lead stronger and grow faster. This is not theory, it's a system I use to grow my company from nothing and the same framework we've coached thousands of business owners through. You can only get the [e-mail] store so don't wait. Pre order now. Well, let's face it, money and relationships are intertwined and when they're out of whack, they're both out of whack. You don't have to stay stuck in that though. I'll be with Dr. John DeLoney in six cities in the next few weeks. We're going to be doing the Money and relationships tour. We want to have you come out. We'd love to have you. Dr. D and I will be in Louisville, Kentucky April 21st. That's just about a week and a half, two weeks away. And Durham on April 23rd. That's a Wednesday. Atlanta on April 25th on a Friday night. Phoenix on a Monday, May 5th Fort Worth on a Wednesday, May 7th in Kansas City on May 9th Friday to wrap up the six city tour. It's gonna be a lot of fun. We're gonna be doing some stuff we've never done before on tour and you guys are gonna have a good time. It's the tickets are not sold out but they're getting close. If you want to come, I suggest you go and get your tickets. We are in the last run here so Ramsey Solutions.com tour the Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? Why Refi offers a different approach approach to paying off your defaulted private student loans with a low fixed rate. For less stress, go to y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com/ramsey might not be in all states.

[Jade Washaw]

All right, Today's question comes from tarek in Washington D.C. he says, I understand your advice that a house payment should be close to a quarter of your take home pay. However, if someone is a high income earner, say $20,000 a month, couldn't the percentage be higher if the mortgage were 40%? That would still leave $12,000 a month for all other expenses. Would a sliding scale be applicable? Depend more applicable depending on income. You know, for this you want to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buy a bigger house.

[Jade Washaw]

He wants to buy a bigger house. I mean that's probably Dave. There's probably a point where it does run out, right. Like when you're really just Dave Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

I could see that I don't have a house payment. So it doesn't.

[Jade Washaw]

That's true. But I mean there could probably be a point where it doesn't hold as much water. But I think at that level that you're talking about, it still does because really the way I think about it is all of these percentages as a whole. So if you say okay, 25% that's going to my mortgage and then yeah, at some you're going to need to be investing 15%, you know, into at least 15%. Right. Into mutual funds. Then if you're, we, we take, we say, you know, generosity is important so we're going to be needing to do 10% there. And let's just say yeah, now you're in baby steps five and six too. So you've got kids college and maybe you're paying extra towards the house. That could be another 10%. So now we're at 60% and we really haven't even, we haven't gone on vacation. We haven't just been living life. So you see that the money goes very quickly. And that for me is why 25% is. Yeah. It makes it to where that house is a blessing and not a burden. And when you start creeping above that, you will find especially, especially depending on season of life, you will find that it's too tight to make everything work. If you have, if you're trying to cash flow college, if you're trying to cash flow daycare, when you are out of whack in those, in those areas, you will feel it very quickly and that's that for me is a real time example of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

No Tariq, a sliding scale would not be appropriate. A percentage is appropriate because a sliding scale would make the assumption that you're going to keep the stupid mortgage. I want you to pay off the stupid mortgage. And if you keep the percentages down, you can pay off the stupid mortgage. We're not keeping it. It's not a pet. We're not trying to manage our debt. We're trying to freaking kill it. So that changes the discussion. Dude, if you want to keep it around like a pet, then a sliding scale would be applicable. But wealthy people don't do that. Wealthy people pay off their mortgage as is told to us in the data when we studied more millionaires than anyone else has ever studied in the Ramsey Research Project. They pay off their mortgage to. They don't keep it around and manage it. So, no, you just want a bigger house. That's all it is. No.

[Jade Washaw]

And his.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get your stinking debt down and pay it off and kill it fast. Then you can build wealth and do anything you want to do at that point. From that point on.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, because you're so. You're just looking at the numbers and you're going, $12,000. I'll still have $12,000. That's a lot of money. But you're not thinking about all of the other things that you will need to do with that money.

[Dave Ramsey]

You throw that money at the debt. So you kill the debt.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Instead of, you know, gee, it's not. We're not. Again, we're. Again, we're not trying to manage this now. Change of subjects.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you notice, Jade, that the news people are melting down?

[Jade Washaw]

Oh, there you notice that the Internet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is ablaze, that we're all going to die because we've had three or four consecutive days of the stock market going down.

[Jade Washaw]

Dave, I've noticed.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm real. I think Chicken Little is alive and well. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. The market's down well over the last two years, is still net, up 80%.

[Jade Washaw]

Let's not forget that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So here's the rule, boys and girls. If you're going to be an investor, the definition of investor is you are thinking long term. If you're going to be a day trader, we can look stupid up in the dictionary and find your picture. Because 82% of day traders lose money. So stupid is what that is. But we don't do day trading here. We do investing. We have a long term mentality. So when, if you have a long term Mentality. And the stock market goes down. Those of us that have been investing in the market steadily for 30 or 40 years, not 30 or 40 minutes, we smile when it goes down and buy more. It's on sale. When I was a little kid, there was a company called Kmart.

[Jade Washaw]

Oh, yeah, I remember Kmart.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go shopping at Kmart.

[Jade Washaw]

The blue light.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they had this little thing that they little cart, they would roll up with a blue light on it, and they would put something in the store on sale and turn on the blue light. And all the redneck hillbillies would run to the blue light like moth and buy crap, cheap crap at Kmart. On sale for a blue light special. It was a blue light sale. The stock market, boys and girls, has a blue light over it right now. It's on sale. Not. I'm going to lose everything. Oh, God. Oh, geez. Take a dad gum chill pill. Seriously, y'all lose your dadgum minds. One turn off the news and your computer.

[Jade Washaw]

You have to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jeez.

[Jade Washaw]

You have to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Investors are, like, right now. I. I do I know how much it's going to fall under the Trump tariff thing, whatever the flip you want to call this thing is he's doing right now. I can't tell. But aside from all that, do I am I. Doesn't matter. 100% chance that the American economy is not going to crumble over this. 100% chance. So 100% chance that a year from now, we're gonna be sitting here smiling. Those of us that did not take out our money.

[Jade Washaw]

I know that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

100% chance. Y'all remember when Covid came and the world was coming to an end? Y'all remember the Fauci pandemic, right? And so, you know, you remember? And the stock market dropped 57%. Oh, my God. Not only we're all going to die, but we're all going to die broke. Yeah. Yeah. Neither one happened. No, didn't die. Didn't die. Broke. Kept buying. All the way down, all the way up. Last two years, the market's up. Dad gum. 80 plus percent. In two years, you've almost doubled your money. Did you hear any headlines going, you're so rich, you can't breathe? Nobody said that. What if they were as enthusiastic about reporting prosperity as they were a temporary dip in the market? Think about this. You people, man, it's like the same thing. It's like we had thunderstorms come through, and I got seven different apps on my phone going off saying, you're gonna die. You're going to die. If you don't believe me, the other app just told you you're going to die. Good God, man. The anxiety inducing stuff we have in this culture today, it's unbelievable. So, yeah, chill your butt out. The only person that gets hurt on a roller coaster are those that jump off in the middle. Keep your hands inside the ride at all times, boys and girls, and wait for the roller coaster to come to a stop. And you will be just fine. Yes, you might get a thrill. You might get a thrill. You might hear click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click when it's going up and then you go right. You might get a thrill. Okay, it could happen. Welcome to investing. But investors stay the course. They stay the course 20 years from today, 10 years from today. What do you think it's going to be? I lost. Oh, no, you didn't lose all your money. You didn't lose all your money. Calm down. Just ride the ride. It's okay. That's what I'm doing. I'm put. I would put more in if I had a lecture right now. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Caller (TJ)]

Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer. And it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically based alternative to health insurance. Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of healthcare costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and [e-mail] budget. That's chministries.org budget.

[Jade Washaw]

All right.

[Caller (Carol)]

This one's for my classroom superheroes, aka the teachers out there. You know what's better than an unexpected classroom observ? An unexpected getaway. This financial literacy month, you could win a dream vacation with the Ramsey Teacher Appreciation Giveaway. Because, honestly, you deserve that Colorado cabin, that Tuscan winery, or that tropical resort where everything's Included, except the motivation to leave your lounge chair. There's no purchase needed to win, plus you'll get bonus entries if you refer other teachers, so don't wait. Enter before April 30th at ramseysolutions.com teacher. That's ramseysolutions.com/teacher.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Eric and Cassie are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

[Eric]

Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. We're doing well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Great.

[Cassie]

Thank you.

[Eric]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve, brother. Where do you all live?

[Eric]

We live in Louisville, Kentucky, just up.

[Dave Ramsey]

The road a few hours. Well, welcome to Nashville. How much debt have you two paid off?

[Eric]

So we've paid off $283,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How long did that take?

[Eric]

Took us two years and eight months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. And range of income during that time?

[Eric]

Yes, sir. So we started out at 189,000 and we finished at 240,000.

[Jade Washaw]

Way to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do y'all do for a living?

[Eric]

I work for a mortgage lender, actually lead a sales team.

[Cassie]

And I work for a regional bank located out of Louisville.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Wow. You managed to get your income to go up as a mortgage lender in the last two years and eight months. You are a magic animal.

[Eric]

I wish I could take credit for it. It was more Cassie than it was me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave, man, it's tough out there in the mortgage world right now. Oh, man. Hoping these rates come back down with the stock market movement. It'll be great for you.

[Eric]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 283,000. Two years and eight months. Would that be your house?

[Cassie]

Yeah, it was our house. And also two cars. Yeah, we. We purchased our home in May of 2022.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And a banker and a mortgage guy paid off their house.

[Eric]

We did.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. We know.

[Cassie]

Yeah, we, we. There's a benefit.

[Eric]

That's right.

[Jade Washaw]

That's amazing.

[Cassie]

Yeah. And so we knew at that point that we wanted to be debt free, but we weren't really doing anything to do that. It was just a dream. So I think. I think it was January of 2023. 3. We had kind of a financial conversation about, okay, what are our goals in the next two years? What do we want to do? Two to three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so knock it out. Knock it out. What's the house worth?

[Eric]

The house is probably around 275.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much is in your old retirement nest eggs?

[Eric]

Retirement? We've got about 500,000 for mine. And then I think on the way over here, we said you had around 200.

[Cassie]

I think together we were just shy of 800.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nice. Okay. So well over a million dollar net worth.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go. You too. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Because baby steps, millionaires.

[Cassie]

Exactly. So we started.

[Eric]

I'm 37 and I'm 34.

[Jade Washaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Young millionaires.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So proud of y'all.

[Cassie]

Thank you. We didn't really know how to go about it, and so we looked at the baby steps, found we were. Had already knocked out 1, 3 and 4. 5 wasn't applicable, but it's on the way.

[Jade Washaw]

Nice.

[Eric]

So we had to go back to.

[Cassie]

Go to two, and that was a big question that we had on the table was, you know, cars or the house or how do we do this? We just didn't know right. If. If we did, then we wouldn't have been in debt. And so we looked at our cars, read, you know, the book.

[Eric]

Yeah. Total Money Makeover is kind of what. What got us sold into it. Dave, we started listening to your program and really just made a commitment to each other. You know, it's a team, not individuals. It's both of us together setting goals and then really holding each other accountable. One of the stories that we kind of laugh about is I was walking around Cabela's with my brother Andy, and he came across a real Dave Ramsey tweet. Well, it wasn't real, but it said, life short by the boat. And we laughed.

[Cassie]

Have you seen that one?

[Eric]

Yeah, we laughed when we saw it. And so I sent it to Cassie, and she started panicking. She said, I can't believe Dave would say that. There's no way.

[Dave Ramsey]

And everything on the Internet's true. Abraham Lincoln said that.

[Eric]

That's right. And I think the point of sharing that story is the temptation's real to really deviate from the plan, but really making a commitment to each other, setting a clear goal, and then using the seven baby steps to work all the way through it. Life is short, but don't buy the boat. Really pay off the debt or buy.

[Jade Washaw]

The boat in cash after you've paid off the debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

That'll work too. We can go with that one. I like it. I like it.

[Jade Washaw]

So let me ask you. You guys said. You said, we knew we wanted to do this. We didn't know what plan to follow. Then you. You found the baby steps or you found money makeover. How. How did you find it? And what made you go, this. This is the plan.

[Eric]

Yeah. So I think both of us were really, you know, when we had that meeting In January of 23, it's really trying to figure out how to tackle it. And of course, we had heard of. Of the Ramsey show before, but we hadn't read the book. We really hadn't listened much to the radio program. So it was really just trying to think, what are some logical steps we can do to really start tackling this debt? And really where we started to struggle was, you know, what do we pay off first? Like we said, we both work in banking, and we thought, well, the interest rate's higher on the, you know, on the house than the cars. You know, would it make sense to tackle the house first? Or how do we do it? And really looking at the seven baby steps really answered that question for us. And it was really a very simple, straightforward plan that we knew we could do together. And so reading Total Money Makeover was really what sold us together on that. And then, of course, we've become listeners since then, too, and really enjoy your show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you. You know, being in the mortgage business, the banking business also, probably some academic training in those areas.

[Eric]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gave you all probably a huge advantage because you're used to looking at numbers and you're used to thinking through, you know, how to win this process. And then all we did was just give you a clear plan that matched up with common sense for you. But, you know, you know, like, I got a degree in finance, but I remember, I remember distinctly the first time after Sharon and I were married that I sat down, this guy started showing me a stupid compound interest chart on investments growing. And I went, I gotta do that. It didn't take me but about, like a nanosecond to do it because I played in those numbers. But it never was presented to me like it was for me. It was just a math test I had to pass, you know, back in college or something. But then when I looked at it and I went, wait a minute, that magic of compound interest, as Albert Einstein called it, the eighth wonder of the world. You know, I should get that working on my favor instead of working against me, right?

[Eric]

And, Dave, it seems so normal. I think people become comfortable with that. It's so normal to have an auto loan. It's so normal to have a mortgage loan. And it doesn't have to be. And I think that's something that, as we read your book and listened to your show, we shouldn't just accept that as normal. And both of us work hard, we make good money. We've always managed our money fairly well. But we fell into that trap of, well, doesn't everybody have an Auto payment. Doesn't everybody have a mortgage loan? You don't have to live like that. It's a very simple program. Very, very simple steps. Straightforward and. And you can conquer it.

[Dave Ramsey]

How's it feel to be millionaires? No payment on your house or anything. And you're not even 40 and a baby on the way. This is awesome.

[Caller (Tanner)]

Yeah, we're.

[Eric]

We're just excited to be new time, you know, new parents. We have that. That weight lifted off our shoulders. We're just excited.

[Cassie]

It's such a huge weight. I mean, going from even looking a couple years before we bought our home, renting and just feeling like we were lighting our money on fire every single month or just flushing it down the toilet. And now we're homeowners. We own our home. The bank doesn't own our home. That's when we bought our home. We were like, the bank. The bank bought our home.

[Eric]

Yeah. People are like your homeowners. It's like, not really. The bank owns our home.

[Cassie]

We're homeowners and.

[Eric]

Right. So it feels great. And to anybody that's listening, you can do it. It's, it's. It seems insurmountable when you start, but if you just take it one step at a time.

[Cassie]

Create a budget. That was key after we paid off the house or paid off the cars, because we could do that. It was the budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you start seeing where all this is going.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, we make you guys make it a quarter million dollars. You know where the flip is?

[Cassie]

Too much money to be this bro.

[Eric]

To be this broke. That's right.

[Jade Washaw]

So how are you going to celebrate what's next?

[Eric]

Well, we're preparing to be parents, so we, we. We got really crazy. Went to dinner when we paid our house off, which was. Which was really, really nice.

[Jade Washaw]

And plan something else, too.

[Eric]

That's right. That's right.

[Jade Washaw]

Do like a baby moon or something. That'd be great.

[Eric]

Yeah, We've talked about doing that. Yeah.

[Cassie]

Still tbd.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Cassie]

I mean, we just paid off the house in, In February, so.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay.

[Cassie]

You know, the baby's due in May, so we're kind of.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Cassie]

Figuring out what that big celebration thing is going to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, y'all.

[Cassie]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So proud of you. Well done. You're amazing. Rockstar couple. You've changed this baby's life. You changed your family tree by doing this and by getting control and working together. Amazing. Amazing. Eric and Cassie. Louisville, Kentucky. 283,000 paid off in two years and eight months. House and everything. Baby steps. Millionaires not even 40 making 189 to 240. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Jade Washaw]

Three, two, one.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're debt free.

[Jade Washaw]

Love that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Wouldn't you like to be a millionaire before you had your first kid?

[Jade Washaw]

34 years old. Love it. I wouldn't know how to act.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is just so freaking awesome. That is awesome right there, man. I'm so proud of them. This is the Ramsay show. Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired? You can take control of your money and your relationships and it starts with just one night. Join me and Dr. John DeLoney live in a city near you on the money and relationships tour. We're covering the real life stuff that matters so you can break the cycles that have left you stuck. It's coming up fast, so get your tickets for Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth or Kansas City at ramseysolutions.com tour today. Well, I've got a book coming out next week. It's going to be here. Looks like and really pumped about this because running a business is so hard. And we finally, working with our entree leadership team developed the entre leadership system which is basically the baby steps for running a small business. And if you know the baby steps, it makes it easier. It's still hard what the last couple did, getting out of debt, it's tough. That's a hard process. It's a lot of work, a lot of sacrifice. But same thing's true running your business. But if you'll follow the steps, follow the five stages of business and the six drivers that drive you through the five stages in this new book. It's gonna make your small. We've coached 10,000 small businesses and this is what our company's gone through Ramsey over the years. So it's called build a business you love. It comes out on the 15th. If you pre order it for 29.99, you get over $350 in free bonus items, instant access to the entree leadership hiring playbook. Hiring and firing. Big pain point in the old small business world. The ebook version of build a business you love and the enhanced audiobook pre [e-mail] store or of course if you're watching on YouTube or the podcast, just click in the description and it will drop you right there. Carol is in Phoenix. Hey Carol, how are you?

[Caller (Brian)]

Hey. I'm doing great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. What's up?

[Caller (Brian)]

Well, I'm 63 and a half years old. My living situation has become a little bit unstable. I'm single And I don't know whether I should take some of my meager retirement savings and buy a townhouse or place to live or if I should continue maybe to rent and stockpile for retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you have in retirement now?

[Caller (Brian)]

401K. I have 57,831. Money market, 58,381. An IRA for 14, 981. I'll have a small $204 a month coming in from UPS in perpetuity. 10,000 and savings, six in my checking. And that's. That's all I've got to my name. No debt. I drive a 2000 Sunburnt, 2007 Sunburnt car with 144,000 miles on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've been very careful. Congratulations. Okay, so you're telling me you got. You got about 150. You got about 150,000 bucks total to your name, right?

[Caller (Brian)]

Mm. And I just found a second job last week to learn how to do bookkeeping.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's that? What's the unstable part of the living arrangement?

[Caller (Brian)]

It's where I'm living that they may not rent to me anymore. And it's a little bit of a messy relationship kind of thing.

[Jade Washaw]

Were they giving you some sort of like, great deal or is it something that you could just take and go elsewhere?

[Caller (Brian)]

Their. Their home is paid off and I paid like $415 a month towards expenses, so super duper cheap.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller (Brian)]

I just got a raise at work. Now I'm making 58,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's no longer fun. No longer fun to be there. Need to be somewhere else.

[Caller (Brian)]

At times. Yeah. I'm not. I don't know whether I should go, whether I should stay. And if I go, a one bedroom, one bath apartments like 1500 in a safe area, you know, trying to find maybe a place to roommate, but that's not manifested itself yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller (Brian)]

So, yeah, the living situation is just kind of up and down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I think you need to keep shopping on both of those. The one bedroom that you picked out was just the first one you drove by, because one bedrooms are expensive in a lot of areas of Phoenix. But there. And there are. But there are some safe areas that wouldn't be quite as high as you found, although that is an expensive real estate market. So I want you. I want you to learn a lot more about rental prices in different neighborhoods, and I want you to investigate the roommate situation a lot further, because if you put down 50 grand on a townhouse, you're going to pretty Substantial payment.

[Caller (Brian)]

Right, Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're only going to have 100,000 bucks to your name at that point.

[Caller (Brian)]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I assume that obviously this is in a retirement account, so it wouldn't be penalized because you're over 59 and a half, but you would be taxed on it. Right?

[Caller (Brian)]

Yeah. Well, the money market's just that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you could throw the money market at it. That's true. As long as you had a good emergency fund that you could get a hold of after that, that'd be fine. Yeah. I'm okay. I'm okay with you buying, but I really want you. What I would do is. I wouldn't. Here's what I would do. I would shop all three things till I became an absolute expert on roommates in the area, one bedroom rentals in the area and townhouses in the area and see if the decision doesn't just present itself to you.

[Caller (Brian)]

Kind of like my second job did.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller (Brian)]

Dropped in my lap.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well. But it dropped in your lap because you're scratching around.

[Caller (Brian)]

True.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, what I found is the more options I have, the more power I have and the better a decision I make when I narrow it down to, oh, there's only two things I can do and they both suck. You know, that's the drama queen in my head. And I haven't done enough work. Work yet to find all the possible things I can do.

[Caller (Brian)]

Yeah, that was the panic. But.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. Exactly. And that's. And that kind of forces you into two things that are both untenable. Or three, in your case. Stay with people where things are weird. Go take an apartment I can't afford or a roommate. That's nuts. You know, those are three things we don't want to do. Right. Go from frying pan into the fire with roommate things. So, you know, I think I'm going to work on that that way and just build up. And one of those is going to be okay. I'm okay with the townhouse move, but I'm not okay with using this whole situation to justify a bad townhouse move.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right. It's still got to meet the right parameters so that you're not strapped. Right. You've still got to be able to do this where that payment's no more than 25% of your take home. And the truth is, you've been used to $450 on rent, so you're really going to have to. To.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ouch.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. You're really going to have to get in that budget and see what this means for you going forward. And, you know, good, Good job on getting the bookkeeping thing. See? Make as much as you can doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. Absolutely. That's the way to go on it. For sure. Marissa's in Baltimore. Hi, Marissa. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller (Brian)]

Hello.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, what's up?

[Caller (Brian)]

My question is, do I need to be patient and trust the process, or should I be more gazelle intense? I have paid off. Well, my husband and I have paid off probably $32,000 in since October of 23, and we still have 28,000 left to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller (Brian)]

It's fluctuated, but it is not last year, but the year before it was 120,000. And I'm not quite sure what last year's was, but probably something you're still.

[Dave Ramsey]

Going out to eat and going on vacation.

[Caller (Brian)]

Not vacation, but eating, probably. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now I'm 100% sure. You make too much money to have only paid off 32,000 since October of 23. You're not Gazelle intense at all. Okay, where are y'all spending the money, do you think?

[Caller (Brian)]

Well, rent is almost $2,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's 24 out of 120.

[Caller (Brian)]

Yeah. And then I know we have to pay for health insurance out of pocket, so that's $1,000 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you and your husband both on board and doing a budget every month and talking about all this, or are you trying to pull this wagon by yourself? Yeah, I thought so.

[Caller (Brian)]

The budgeting, probably not so much. We're both on board with paying off debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. In general, as a general concept. But you're most not leaning into the details and treating this like it's a business. And we've got to try to stay open and get this done fast. He's not doing that. He's out just working. And. Yeah, I hope that thing you're working on over there, honey, I hope it works out.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, it feels like it's almost to the extent that it doesn't make you feel too uncomfortable. You're doing it, and that's the results you're getting.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you shouldn't be more gazelle intense. He should. And the two of you together need to get on your every dollar budget.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let us get you signed up for that. We'll pay for the premium version and give it to you. And you guys sit down, do your budget like your life depends on it, because, by God, it does. Start acting like it. Get this cleaned up as a couple. You need to get more intense and focused yes, because you make too much money to have not paid off any more debt than you have. This is the Ramsey Show.