Slow and Steady Beats Get Rich Quick

Summary

The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary
Title: Slow and Steady Beats Get Rich Quick
Date: September 15, 2025
Hosts: Ken Coleman & George Kamel (Ramsey Network)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show is all about practical, emotionally aware, no-nonsense financial decision-making with real callers. Ken Coleman and George Kamel (sitting in for Dave Ramsey) provide candid, sometimes humorous, guidance for people at various stages of their financial journey—from newlyweds grappling with letting go of a first house to high-earning individuals looking to fine-tune wealth-building strategies. Their advice consistently emphasizes slow, steady, logical steps over emotional or “get rich quick” schemes.

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Key Discussions, Insights, and Notable Moments

1. Sentimental Attachment vs. Financial Logic in Real Estate

Caller Kate from California: A newlywed unsure whether to keep her first home (now a long-distance rental, losing $200/month) or sell it.

• Emotional Attachment Identified: George zeroes in on the “sunk cost fallacy” and how Kate feels sentimental about her “first” house. Ken notes a possible sense of parental obligation.
• Logical Breakdown: George asks, "Would you buy a house five hours away, to rent out and lose money, today?" Kate concedes she wouldn't.
• Numbers, not Emotions: Ken: "It's not worth it. On paper, it's not worth it.” (06:19)
• Future Outlook: George illustrates the power of investing $150K from a home sale: “If you just invest 150 grand, you'll have 3.6 million at 62.” (08:22)
• Advice: Sell the house, grieve if you must, then invest and focus on your current financial goals.

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2. Selling Inherited Jewelry to Pay Debt

Caller Anna from Little Rock: Wants to sell a valuable piece of jewelry gifted by her mother to build a nest egg.

• Sentiment Check: Ken ensures there’s no family fallout; Anna confirms it was meant to be sold.
• Pawn Shop Math: George: “You're probably looking at 30 to 60% of appraisal value.” (13:42)
• Sell Smart: Consider local jewelers, auction houses, and eBay for best offers.
• Research: “Go to eBay, find sold listings to see what it’s actually selling for.” (13:57)
• Result: Anna feels equipped to move forward and research the best selling avenue.

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3. Which Debt to Pay Down First for High Earners

Caller Tammy from New York: Paid off credit cards and is deciding whether to pay off a leased car or a pension loan next, with an income of $208K.

• Debt Snowball Strategy: George recommends tackling the smaller balance (car) first (16:11).
• Behavioral Change: “You want to keep the car?…You’re not going to be in a lurch.” (16:19; 18:22)
• Encouragement: Ken stresses daily commitment to a debt-free mindset: “This is a mental game, and you can win it.” (18:57)

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4. Turning Around After Medical Debt & Major Setbacks

Caller Lisa from Ohio: Sold her family’s home after medical debt and cancer, with three teens in activities.

• Situation Triage: Income is $11K/month, with $102K in debt (cars, medical, credit cards, student loans).
• Expense Audit: George advises offloading cars and scrutinizing $8K/year for kids’ activities: “Mommy's gotta sell her car…because we need to clean up a mess.” (30:46)
• Emotional Wisdom: Ken: “Part of this…your daughter's in three major things and one's enough.” (30:16)
• Real Talk on Trade-offs: Needs aggressive changes for short-term stability and long-term recovery.

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5. Should a 100% Disabled Vet Get a 15-Year or 30-Year VA Mortgage?

Caller Brett from Maine: Wants to use VA loan, wonders about 15 vs. 30-year terms, is almost debt-free.

• Advocating 15-Year Loan: George: “People who take 30-year loans tend to pay it closer to 30 years…15-year loans tend to be paid off quicker.” (36:42)
• Baby Steps Sequence: Brett should finish the emergency fund, then save 10–20% down before buying.

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6. Investing for a Future House Upgrade

Caller Annie from Iowa, Age 26: About to pay off her house, wants to invest for a future cash home purchase.

• Brokerage vs. Roth IRA for House Fund: George prefers a non-retirement brokerage account for non-retirement goals: “If it’s for a house in five years, keep it separate.” (38:35)
• Patience and Modeling: Ken celebrates Annie’s rare combination of youth, patience, and smart planning: “You’re going to be rich.” (40:48)

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7. Supporting Parents—But What About Your Marriage?

Caller Hudson from New Mexico: Torn between caring for aging parents with a live-in suite (and inheritance implications) and honoring his wife’s wishes.

• Clear Line on Priorities: George: “Do I choose my wife or my parents? That’s the real question…leave and cleave.” (65:37)
• Advocacy for Separate Finances/Living: Don’t blend households unless it’s truly right for all involved.

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8. Paying Off the Mortgage at Retirement: Should I Sell Brokerage to Do It?

Caller Phil, Age 72, Nashville: Debates using $291K brokerage proceeds to pay off a $234K mortgage with 15 years left at 3.5%.

• Math + Peace: George: “Stepping over a dollar to pick up a quarter…at age 72, life’s too precious.” (68:33)
• Practical Freedom: “You just gave yourself a $2,300/month raise…Now you do what you want with it.” (69:08)

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9. Single, Recently Divorced, and Approaching Debt

Caller Dawn from Philadelphia: Recently divorced, holding $18K car debt, and sitting on heavy emergency savings.

• Baby Steps Applied: “You could be debt-free today…then begin rebuilding three to six months of expenses.” (96:40)
• Pause Retirement Saving Briefly: Focus on paying off the car with savings, then replenish.
• Winning Psychology: Ken: “See how much more secure you’ll feel as you bring in extra money—being proactive.” (102:18)
• Compound Growth Example: “At 67, you’ll have $1.6M—most of it just from compound interest.” (103:32)

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10. Roommate Unemployed—Should I Carry Him?

Caller Noel from Oregon, Age 25: Making $90K, MBA student, boyfriend/roommate unemployed for 3 months.

• Candid Relationship Advice: Ken: “You called us because your instincts are right—he is showing a lack of character.” (62:40)
• Black-and-White Financial Protection: Split all bills down the middle; no long-term plans until his behavior changes.
• Empathy and Boundaries: Acknowledge job loss is traumatizing, but waiting for “the perfect job” isn’t an excuse not to work.

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11. Starting a Bookkeeping Business While in a Crisis

Caller Mike from Florida: Family of three living in a single room, wants to start a bookkeeping side hustle.

• Triage First: George: “It’s not the time to invest in a passion project…we need consistent income.” (91:38)
• Creative Hustle vs. New Business: Ken: “You’re better served working at Walmart stocking shelves…do anything to stabilize first.” (91:20; 92:57)
• Practical Advice: Don't invest in the business until you have basic stability.

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12. Real Estate Reserve Funds & Rental Headache

Caller Carol from Virginia: Owns primary and rental properties, seeking best practice for setting aside for repairs.

• Rule of Thumb: “1% of property value per year is reasonable for maintenance reserves.” (118:55)
• Hassle Factor: George suggests selling if the hassle isn’t worth the meager rental income.

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13. Life Balance After Loss - Living Today vs. Saving for Tomorrow

Caller Jeff, Age 49, Michigan: Recently lost wife to cancer, wants advice on balancing living life now vs. saving for later.

• Permission to Grieve: “Give yourself time, don’t worry about the budget yet.” (76:14)
• Intentionality and Action: George: “When you’re ready, continue the baby steps, but also budget for joy—don’t live with regrets.” (79:52; 81:25)
• Honoring Legacy: Ken recommends taking a special, meaningful trip as a way to heal and celebrate what was lost.

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Notable Quotes

• “You’re going to have to untie your emotion and tie onto some logic.” — George, 04:00
• “People who take 30-year loans tend to pay it closer to 30 years…15-year loans tend to be paid off in 10, or if you’re the average baby stepper, SEVEN years.” — George, 36:42
• “You gotta start thinking about what would we do with the $150,000 from the sale.” — Ken, 07:28
• “I would grieve it, I’d celebrate it. Money money money money.” — Ken, 08:44
• “You just gave yourself a $2,300/month raise, my friend.” — George, 69:08
• “No one needs to sell a house unless it’s the only option. Do a deep budget audit first.” — George, 49:39
• “Your instincts are right. You deserve a guy who doesn’t sit around and play video games while you pay the rent.” — Ken, 63:01

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Highlighted Timestamps

• Sentimental home debate: 00:56–08:44
• Selling jewelry for debt: 10:22–14:09
• Lease vs. pension loan payoff: 15:09–19:41
• Medical debt family crisis: 23:04–31:32
• VA mortgage for disabled vet: 33:33–37:19
• Saving for future home (young couple): 37:37–41:51
• Parents, in-law suite & marriage: 64:44–67:38
• Paying off mortgage in retirement: 67:45–70:44
• Divorced, car loan, savings: 95:38–104:11
• Boyfriend, rent, job loss: 54:16–63:45
• Bookkeeping side hustle advice: 85:17–93:32
• Rental reserve & hassle: 116:16–124:41
• Grief: spend vs. save: 75:01–84:05

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Tone and Style

Warm, direct, sometimes playful—never shaming. Coleman and Kamel blend empathy with accountability, emphasizing mindset as much as math, and always urging callers to “run toward the difficulty” rather than rationalize their way into inaction or more debt. They’re tough but hopeful, insisting abundance is built with slow, steady steps, not short cuts.

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This episode is a thorough masterclass in Ramsey-style money management: clear, emotion-aware, and ruthlessly logical.

(For additional questions/segments, see timestamped topics above.)

Transcript

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

To you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey network in the Fairwinds Credit union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-2552. The refreshed new Father got a good night's sleep last night. That means he's going to be extra good at helping you folks today on the money issues. George Camel, my dear friend. And then I'm Ken Coleman. If you're new to the show, welcome, welcome, welcome. I'll help you make more money. George is going to help you keep more money. That's the combo. And so we're going to get right to it. Kate's joining us in California. Kate, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. My husband and I have been married for almost two years now. And when we came into a marriage together, we both owned a house. And the house that he has, we live in right now. And it's paid off. The house that I have is in a different city. That's where I was living before. And I still have a mortgage on it. It's worth about 500. And my mortgage has 325 left. We pay every month, but then we have renters and it covers most of it. But we're losing about $200 per month with the property management fees. And we're trying to decide. We chip away at every, we do every dollar. And we're on baby step six. We're doing great, but we chip away at the mortgage every month. Whatever we have left over, we spend towards the mortgage. And we're trying to chip away at it, but we're trying to decide if we should keep doing that or if it's and it's worth the keeping the house or if it's just going to be too much. And.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me ask you a question.

[Caller]

Let it go.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me ask you a question. I want you to speak on behalf of your husband. I think you're qualified. Do you, do you enjoy losing a couple hundred bucks a month on that house?

[Caller]

I, it's weird. Like, we, we, we both see the pros and cons.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no. You're sounding like a politician. That's a yes or no answer. Do you enjoy losing a couple hundred bucks? Do you enjoy.

[Caller]

I'm okay with it because I really love this house. And I like, I don't want to give it up. And we go, we go to the city that it's in a lot and visit. And so, like, eventually one day, I would love to have it paid off and then have it be like our. And we can stay there.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm not sure why you call us. I'm not sure why you called us now.

[Caller]

Well, because we're really torn, and there is some, like.

[Ken Coleman]

Who's torn?

[George Campbell]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Ken Coleman]

Who's torn? I'm holding George off because I know what George is going to say. So I'm trying to. This is actually fun that we got behind what's really going on. We are torn.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

There's over 100 people in the lobby. Show of hands if you think she's torn.

[George Campbell]

Oh, all right. About half.

[Ken Coleman]

About half. I don't think you're actually torn. I think you want to keep it and your husband wants to get rid of it. Is that true or false?

[Caller]

It's partially true. I just. I feel like the. The issue is I want. I want to do upkeep on it, but it's a lot of money, and it's like, is it worth it? And the other thing is, like, the house we're in right now, it's great, and we're thankful, but it's not our forever home. And so it's like, we don't want to get another home.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Your forever home is with Jesus Christ. There is no forever home. Oh, you're not 90. You're gonna times before you pass from this earth. So here's.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's what I'm hearing, George, from the top ropes of the church just off the balcony.

[George Campbell]

I like a Jesus joke.

[Ken Coleman]

You came in with a robe on and off the top of the balcony there.

[George Campbell]

It's just fun.

[Ken Coleman]

I love.

[George Campbell]

Here's. Here's what I'm getting at, Kate. I think this is a sentimental house for you. This was your first house that you had on your own.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So there. There's a real emotion tied to this, and there's a sunk cost fallacy. And it feels like letting go of this house is letting go of something you worked really hard for. And so I think what you need to, as best you can, is to untie your emotion and instead tie on to some logic, which is what your husband's probably using. He's just doing math and going, this doesn't make any fiscal sense. We're losing money. And then the other part of this is, where is the house located? You're in California. Where's the other house?

[Caller]

So we're down south, and my house is up north.

[Ken Coleman]

How far away?

[Caller]

About five hours.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, this is insane.

[George Campbell]

So would you now, today, go, hey, let's buy this house five hours from us to rent out and lose money on. Would you make that decision today?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

So that. The key here is you may you became a landlord by default. And even if it was working out, I'd probably tell you to sell it because it's still long distance. It's still a nuisance. It's still a headache.

[Ken Coleman]

I got a theory, George, and I don't mind being wrong. Kate. I think George may be right on the emotion piece. But you didn't react. Here's what I hear. I think that you think this is such a smart investment if you can just somehow figure out a way to not lose money on it or somehow just keep it. I think you feel like it would be financially irresponsible to let go of this house. Is that true or false?

[Caller]

Well, I grew up with parents that were all about good credit scores and all this stuff. So, like, they. They pushed me, encouraged me to get this house when I was single, and. And they're all about, like, oh, you got to keep it now. It's. It's getting higher in value each year. This is amazing.

[Ken Coleman]

True or false?

[Caller]

So I have.

[Ken Coleman]

True. True or false? Did I. I'm just saying I'm helping you. It's not about me being right. I want you to get. I'm trying to identify for you what's really going on here. I think you think it's irresponsible to.

[George Campbell]

Let go of this house now. Let down mom and dad.

[Ken Coleman]

That's an added layer. Is that what's going on? Yes or no?

[Caller]

And I don't know. I'm just. I. I feel like it's worth it. In my opinion, it's worth it. Keeping it.

[George Campbell]

I knew it.

[Caller]

We could use it in the future.

[Ken Coleman]

So we.

[George Campbell]

But don't say it's worth it. Out of finance, you're saying it's worth it. Emotionally, it's not worth it.

[Ken Coleman]

No. How much money are you losing a year on this house? Be honest.

[Caller]

I'm. That's a good question. Where. It's about 200amonth that we're losing, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, well, that's easy math. 2,400 bucks. But it's more than that, because now you got to fix it up and do other things right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not worth it. On paper, it's not worth it.

[George Campbell]

You could. If you sold it, you'd walk away with about 150 grand. That's worth it. Now, what would you do if you had 150 grand in your pocket today?

[Ken Coleman]

Great question.

[Caller]

Well, like I said, we. The house that we're in, we just had a baby and there's stairs and we just. We want to get a one story house. And so like, we're. That would probably. You probably put it towards a new house. And like, the house that we're in is also very valuable. So we would be able to.

[George Campbell]

Oh, you want to play this game again? Okay. You didn't learn the lesson the first time. No, I feel.

[Ken Coleman]

Is it crazy? I feel like you're talking in circles. You should run for office.

[George Campbell]

I really think we have trouble with stairs right now. Is that the issue?

[Caller]

I was just worried about it. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I'll tell you what I did because I have. Many people have stairs. It's very common in houses to have stairs.

[Ken Coleman]

What'd you do with your stairs?

[George Campbell]

You put a gate. I got a baby gate installed. Problem solved. And I carry the baby.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. Well, that's smart.

[George Campbell]

I. That's where these arms came from.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, I'm getting to the age now. If you put a gate on my stairs, I probably wouldn't go up.

[George Campbell]

No. Ken's gonna have a little motorized.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't want to pull a hamstring.

[George Campbell]

Jake goes up the stairs.

[Ken Coleman]

I'd have to stretch. I play a lot of pickleball. I gotta stretch. You gotta stretch before getting over that gate. You know, we're having fun with you, Kate, but here's. You won't even answer the question. But I think George's question is your homework assignment. What would you guys do with the windfall, the 150,000 from the sale of the house that's five hours away. George and I have spoken. It makes no sense. We're going to say this until the cows come home. To be a long distance landlord, we've said that a million times. We're going to say it a million more times. George and I have told you why. I think we've identified the emotion around this, which was our goal. To help you see how your emotion is outweighing your logic. And then now it's like, hey, you gotta start thinking about what would we do with the 150 plus the. The equity on the current house that you don't like. That's the move.

[George Campbell]

How old are you, Kate? How old are you guys?

[Caller]

30.

[George Campbell]

30. Okay. You let this thing ride till 62. If you just invest 150 grand, you'll have 3.6 million. Oh, boy. So I'm not buying the fact that this house is the investment you could make. Truly passive income just investing it into an index fund. And so this is really about emotion than it is about logic. I would sit down and grieve this house and then put it on the market, take some cute pics, say goodbye.

[Ken Coleman]

I wouldn't grieve it. I'd celebrate it. Money, money, money, money.

[George Campbell]

If you ever googled yourself, here's the two worst things you can find. Photo evidence of your worst haircut and your personal data floating around on some sketchy website. I mean, the bangs were regrettable, but your info being bought, sold and reposted all over the world wide web even worse. And trust me, it happens all the time. And that's why I use Delete Me. You guys. Over 20 billion records have been leaked in recent years and that info gets pulled into these people search sites. So stuff like your name, number, address, even your kids names is out there for anyone to see. But if you're trying to clean up your personal data yourself, good luck. It can be a part time job just submitting these opt out requests. So if you don't want your personal info out there, you should be using Delete me too. Delete Me has real people who track down your data, remove it from these shady sites and make sure it stays removed. Plus you get a report from Deleteme showing exactly what was found and what's been deleted. So take back your privacy with Delete Me right now. Ramsey listeners get 20% off at JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey with code Ramsey at checkout. So do that today. JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey code Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

Anna is up in Little Rock, Arkansas. Anna, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, such a treat to talk to you all. I'll make my question brief and essentially I just learned that I'm expecting my first baby.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, watch out. That's exciting. Congrats.

[Caller]

Super, super excited. And I'm as nervous as I am excited. But my question is, is I have a, a piece of fine jewelry that was gifted to me from a family member. And the appraisal value of several years ago was $11,000, although I think it may be worth a little bit more. But my question is, is it two parts? One, what can I expect to like the appraisal value versus sell value? I just don't know what to kind of expect for that. And then my second question is, how do I go about finding a buyer for fine jewelry? I hear about like finding a, you know, a private seller for like a vehicle. But I've listened to the show for a while and I've never heard about somebody trying to sell jewelry. So I would love any.

[Ken Coleman]

Great question. George is doing a little research. Quick question. He's the only person I could think of that would have a quick answer on this one. Why are we selling it?

[Caller]

So one, I am a simple person. I am not a jewelry fan whatsoever. So I have no attachment to it. And my husband, like, picked up an extra bus route and I am trying to get my side business started just to pile up cash. And so really, I just, I would really want, like, I feel like this is just a quick way to get cash. Kind of a nest egg.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And so we're trying to build up. Do we have any debt?

[Caller]

Yes, we do.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so we. It's not about the nest egg, it's about the debt. I'll let George walk you through that. And who's the family member that gave you this?

[Caller]

Sure.

It's my mother.

[Ken Coleman]

And mom's not going to be. And again, I'm not in any way. I'm just curious. I'm getting all the facts here. Would mom be upset to find out that you sold this?

[Caller]

No. It was originally given to me to sell for, to like help pay for my wedding.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, great.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

That's all I needed.

[George Campbell]

No sentiment, no relationship destroyed. I would sell it. And there is, there is a spectrum depending on how fast you want this cash and need the cash. You could get it fast at a pawn shop. You could go to a local jeweler. From my research, you're probably looking at 30 to 60% of appraisal value. So top end, you might be looking at, you know, five, little over five grand on the lower end, maybe three or four grand. And so I would at least try your local, a local jeweler to see what they think, what they would.

[Ken Coleman]

What about George? Is it like a car? Where can you sell it? Yeah, she go put it online.

[George Campbell]

There's auction houses now. The thing is, you're going to take more time to find a private buyer. An auction house will cost you a little bit and it might take a little while to sell if it's a unique high end piece. And there's online marketplaces as well. So it just depends if you're in no rush to sell this. You just want to get top dollar. I would go that route if you guys aren't desperate.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you done some research? You're on your own as to pieces like this.

[Caller]

So the. I went to the retailer that it Came from. And so. And like I said, it was. It was valued at 11,000 at the time, and they offered me $900.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm talking about online. I'm talking, like, for people that. Because you go retail, you're going to get whole. You're not going to get the pricing that you want.

[George Campbell]

You have the appraisal. So you have a lot of info about this piece of jewelry? Correct. Okay, good.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm saying, are there people that are selling these things online that you can.

[George Campbell]

Check this, go to ebay and find that item, and then go to completed and sold in the filters that'll show you what it's actually selling for.

[Caller]

Awesome. So that's one so much I really appreciate it.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Start doing your research.

[Ken Coleman]

The call. Wow.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I mean, that's. That's very rare that you have a piece of jewelry that nice that isn't sentimental and won't destroy a relationship from the person who gave it to you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Speaking of which, you got a nice piece on your wrist right there.

[George Campbell]

My. My wife's grandfather passed and grandmother said, hey, if you'll take this and you want to fix it up, keep it, but just don't sell it. So I am under strict conditions to not sell it.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And I don't think I ever will. I'd love to pass it down to. You know, by the way, I remember.

[Ken Coleman]

When you first showed it to me. It looks good on you.

[George Campbell]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

I'm usually an Apple watch guy, and so this is a big change.

[Ken Coleman]

I think this makes you look like an adult.

[George Campbell]

Well, I'm a dad now.

[Ken Coleman]

You're a dad. You got a beard. It's time to wear a real man.

[George Campbell]

I don't need to get texts on.

[Ken Coleman]

My way because it's an older Rolex. Can I say that? Yeah, I just said it.

[Caller]

It.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So it occurs to me I didn't. Didn't really filter that very.

[George Campbell]

Oh, it's totally fine.

[Ken Coleman]

But the size of that matches your wrist size.

[George Campbell]

You're saying I have a dainty wrist? I understood You're a small guy.

[Ken Coleman]

Small wrist, small watch. I think it works, is all I'm saying. Tammy's up in New York. Tammy, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Ken and George. I love you guys so much. Thank you for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you. We love you, too.

[Caller]

Thank you. So just for getting to it really quickly. I have in baby step two, I just finished paying off about $30,000 in credit card debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice.

[Caller]

And I have basically two more, with the exception of my mortgage. Two more is my pension loan and my car. Now my car is a lease that's up in September of next year, which they say we valued at 20,000 by that time. Just got like a payoff estimate last month. Right now it's about at 28,000. And my pension lo that I just took out for a kitchen renovation is about 36,000 left on it. So I'm wondering if I should pay. And that's at 5%. I'm wondering if I should pay, I guess work on paying the car off before my lease ends, pay extra payments toward it or should I attack the pension loan?

[George Campbell]

Well, if you're just going to put this in the dead snowball, you would just do the smallest balance first, which would put the car there, if that's your goal. You want to keep the car?

[Caller]

I do, yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And what's your income?

[Caller]

I'm at about 208.

[George Campbell]

Fantastic.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So you're gonna be able to knock this out pretty quick.

[Caller]

Yeah. Once I. Once I started this because I've been Dave Ramsey ish and I. I'm getting serious now, I basically kind of stopped my retirement. I was. Had my money all over the place. Disorganized saving in so many different pockets. So I kind of organized that and realized I have so much more to put towards it. So that's why I was able to kind of, you know, pay it down much more.

[George Campbell]

But, well, now, you know, you have the ability and discipline to save up for the next kitchen renovation.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So are you done with debt completely. You're not, you're never going to borrow a dime again, are you, at that place?

[Caller]

That's the plan. That is the plan. I'm working very hard to not do it at all. But I still have a mortgage and that's the bigger one. But yes, I guess I'm just worried about the lease car. If I should just allow it to just.

[George Campbell]

I would work on getting that amount and just knock that thing out because you can throw payments at it. Knock that 28k out. And how many months you think?

[Caller]

So you think if I pay extra towards the least every month, it will pay it? Would it, I guess make it less? Oh, by the end of September.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I would look at the agreement that you signed and talk to them and say, hey, look, I'm looking to buy this thing out. Here's the buy off mount. Can I make, you know, payments every month to work toward that and that way you're not just sitting there sitting on a giant pile of savings.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. So that's what I will do. Reach out to them, see if I can pay extra and that will kind of lessen the amount or get me to own it, owning it faster.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Either way, you're going to be okay. If you went and tacked this pension loan and knocked out 36K, you'd have the money by the time the lease is over to buy the car anyways.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

Either way, you're prepaying appreciation.

[Caller]

It's still outstanding. I still, I'm still working on it. It was the credit cards that I paid off the pension loan and the car is still the outstanding, outstanding ones.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I'm just saying, either way you hit it, you're going to have the money to have owned this car outright by the time the lease is over. That's the important part. You're not going to be in a lurch there. But I'm proud of you for making a big change. I mean, you've been turning to debt every which way, even making an amazing salary. So way to go going. I don't need to do that. I make 200 grand. What am I doing? Taking out loans.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I'm living paycheck to paycheck and I'm just. I'm not investing as much as I could. I've been investing, but not organized and diligently.

[George Campbell]

But yeah, you could be doing way better for how hard you've been working.

[Caller]

I know.

[George Campbell]

I'm proud of you. Hey, never too late to start. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's the way to go. We want you to hear this, Tammy. Like, like, just decide like you've already decided, but decide every day. Maybe take. Take 7 to 10 days and write something down every morning. Something that. That is your words and. But something that's very declarative, very simple. I'm not going to do debt ever again or I'm getting out of this and I'm never looking back. Something like that. To change your mindset so that you begin to not see debt as an option ever again. It's like cutting something out of your appetite and then you'll lose the taste for it. That's the challenge. This is a mental game and you can win it. You've already won so much, so we're really excited for you. We're believing in you. Thank you so much for the call.

[George Campbell]

Good luck with that buyout. You're probably going to need to just do it as a lump sum. I don't know. They'll allow extra payments. It might go toward the lease. So, again, look into that. But either way, just start stacking that cash and make those payments and get that thing owned fully.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Most of us are guilty of over sharing with the wrong person sometimes, and as fun as it can be to talk to people about everyday stuff, when you need help with relationships, anxiety, depression or other clinical issues, random people may not have the right answers. Sometimes you need real guidance from a licensed therapist who follows a strict code of conduct. Someone who's actually trained to sit with hurting people. And that's why I recommend reaching out to my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world. That means no matter what you're facing, they've probably got someone who specializes in exactly what you're struggling with. BetterHelp is totally online, which makes it easy to fit therapy into your busy schedule. To get started, just answer a few simple questions, nothing scary, and they're going to connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs. Plus, if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime for no extra cost. BetterHelp has been matching people with therapists for over 10 years, and their 4.9 rating shows that they usually get it exactly right. Find the right one with better help. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com Ramsey all right, heavy question, but we have to wrestle with it. If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on? How would they pay the mortgage? Could they afford necessities? Basic necessities, like groceries? If anybody in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. So if that's you and you're going, okay, that's we need to do something here. How do I figure out all the options? It's really simple. Life insurance. Life insurance has one responsibility to replace your income if you die, and term life insurance is the only kind of insurance that does that. The others, like whole or permanent life insurance, try to add in investing and that's a really bad product that doesn't do what it's supposed to do. You only need life insurance while someone depends on you financially. So if you're like most people, you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your annual income for a term length of 15 to 20 years. And it should be a level policy, meaning the premium stays the same. For more info and resources on this very important issue, use our free Term Life Insurance Guide. Go to ramseysolutions.com termlifeguide that's ramseysolutions.com termlifeGuide or you can get the link in the description of the show Notes if you're on YouTube or podcast. Lisa joins us now in Ohio. Lisa, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. We recently sold our home after experiencing some financial difficulties and medical setbacks. And we're just looking for the best way to kind of move forward. We have three teenagers. They're very involved in extracurricular activities. It's a medical issue. We just kind of want to move forward. We want them to have a normal childhood. So, yeah, just, just kind of looking for the best way for us to move.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So we need to paint a clearer picture for us here. So when, when we're tackling debt, we've got two things that we have to do just at the top. Right. We have to decrease expenses wherever, however, and then we also need to increase income. So give us a picture of the debt. But before you do that, give us a quick household income. What's, what are, what is our, what is our take home pay?

[Caller]

We're about, I would say about 11,000amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

11,000Amonth. That's good income. Very good. And is this double income?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Double income. Okay. Now walk us through the debt. Smallest to largest.

[Caller]

Sure. So we're looking at about, I would say we have 60,000 in cars. We've got three cars. My 17 year old and then the two of us.

[Ken Coleman]

So that's the total debt is just the cars?

[Caller]

No, no.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so I want you to walk me through, I want you to walk me through. Smallest to largest because that's what we teach in the debt snowball is to attack the smallest debt. So walk us through that.

[Caller]

Sure. So 20,000 in credit cards and then, you know, we have, I would say our medical debt. We're looking at, I don't know, about 9,000. And then we just keep having these medical costs pop up periodically. We'll kind of be making some good headway. And then like my son has an anaphylactic food allergy, so he'll wind up in the hospital where I'll have like scans.

[George Campbell]

Are you using out of pocket?

[Ken Coleman]

Sure. Are you using the credit cards to help supplement the medical costs?

[Caller]

Well, so my kids were still in daycare when I had cancer, so we had, I had to keep them in daycare. I wasn't able to care for them during the day. So a lot of that is still left over from.

[Ken Coleman]

And by the way, we're not judging you, we're just trying to figure out how we're so let's keep going. Is 9,000 in medical debt. Is that. Is that the smallest debt you have?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, what's next?

[Caller]

Just us chipping away at. We have. Sorry. We have 13,000 in student loans.

[Ken Coleman]

13K. So 9K medical, 13K student loans. 20,000 in credit cards. That's multiple cards. So what's the smallest credit card amount?

[Caller]

500.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, you see what I'm trying to drive you to this. I'm going to get. I'm going to get George here. But any other debt outside the. The 60,000 in cars? We had three cars. What are the cars? Give me the three car amounts.

[Caller]

About 25, 25 and 10.

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you underwater in all three of these? Or any of these have any equity?

[Caller]

Just in.

Just in the one. We're underwater.

[Ken Coleman]

Which one?

[Caller]

Mine.

[Ken Coleman]

25.

[Caller]

One of the 25, yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Any other debt?

[Caller]

No. I mean, our kids are in. Our kids are in activities, which those are costing about, oh, let's say 8,000 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, that's on the chopping board.

[Caller]

Significant.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, I'm bringing in Dr. Camel here. He's got his lab coat on. Stethoscope.

[George Campbell]

He's got his scalpel, mostly scalpel. Just as mostly what we need here.

[Ken Coleman]

His scalpel is ready to go. All right, George, walk her through this.

[George Campbell]

Well, now, while the medical issues. That is something that is out of your control. And I'm so sorry that I hope you're doing better than you were. Are you currently in remission or what's the status of cancer?

[Caller]

I am. Yeah. It's just those darn scans. We have to. Have.

[George Campbell]

You done the math? You know, the ins and outs of your insurance? Because I would know that like the back of my hand. How much am I going to pay? What's the deductible? What's the out of pocket max?

[Caller]

They didn't cover my chemo, so that kind of kicked our butts, too.

[George Campbell]

Do you have a high deductible plan or is it.

[Caller]

No, we're about $900 a month in insurance, and then our out of pocket max is 7,500 a year.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so now we kind of know. Here's how much this is going to cost us. Out of pocket max. And do you guys have nothing in savings right now?

[Caller]

So from the sale of our house, we have 18,000 after. So we had to pay out, like we paid a chunk of that medical debt off.

[George Campbell]

What's the rest of the 18,000 doing right now? What's the goal with That I have.

[Caller]

It in a high yield savings account. I just feel we had like $50,000 equity in our house. And so my goal, I just wanted to like pay ourselves back for that and get back into a house eventually. But I just, I don't know. Is that like the best thing to do? I don't know. We're paying $2,600 in rent. That feels like I'm just flushing it down the toilet.

[George Campbell]

Well, it's being flushed on the toilet is $102,000 in consumer debt with varying interest rates. That's what's crushing you. Not right. So the other part of this is we've been living high in the hog, taking out car payments for every single car we want. And that's the part where I go, all right, these cars could be offloaded to clear over half the day debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah. Not to mention a massive race. What? Just give us real quick, what do you think the car payments are for all three of those cars? You know, off the top of your head?

[Caller]

Oh, I do know it would be. I would say it's probably about 1200.

[George Campbell]

My heart said 1200 there. Ding, ding, ding.

[Ken Coleman]

Imagine a 1200amonth raise.

[George Campbell]

Now you can make progress on that credit card debt and you can get ahead of the medical stuff. So that's my goal for you guys is you're bringing home 132k a year, which is awesome. My guess is your expenses are right up there too. Because whatever the kids want to do, I want to give them a great childhood.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. What are the $8,000 in kids activities a year?

[Caller]

Yeah. So sports. I mean, my son's a golfer. My other son plays football, baseball, basketball. My daughter is in dance and tumbling and cheer.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Are they going to do any of these professionally?

[Caller]

My son is a senior this year. He's the golfer.

[George Campbell]

Like, is he like scholarship level?

[Caller]

I, I mean, I, I don't know. I don't know that colleges. He's kind of thinking more about trade.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the answer is no.

[George Campbell]

Perfect.

[Ken Coleman]

So if he was, you would already known.

[George Campbell]

Here would be my take. If they're. Are they 16, 17, 18, 17, 13 and 11. Okay. I would have a 17 year old start working and they're going to start funding their own extracurriculars. Okay, but it's still costing you eight grand a year to cover some of his stuff.

[Caller]

Well, he has been up to this point, I would say about 2,000 of it with golf. So. Yeah, I mean, he's right on the tail end of us covering, you know.

[Ken Coleman]

That he's listen part of this thing. And you said something that was very interesting at the top of the call. You said we want our kids to live a normal life. And I get it. I completely get it. There's no judgment coming from me. However, your daughter's in three major things and one's enough. And there might be a season where she can't do any of it. Where she, she learns this is why and it maybe keeps her from getting into debt. Like, you guys are gonna have to make some changes and you have to throw the kids activities on the block. You have to.

[George Campbell]

And then you're putting skin in the game too. You're saying, hey, mommy's gotta sell her car and you're gonna, we're gonna have to cut you down to one activity because we need to clean up a mess that your dad and I made over the past several years. And we, we know that health issues are going to continue in our family. We need to get ahead of this and that takes priority over these other activities. So you'll get back to it. But the next two to three years, you're going to be just chunking 30 plus grand a year at this debt to clean it up. That's what it's going to take. That's the math behind it. And I believe you can do it. If you offload the cars, get the expenses down now we can breathe. We've got that margin to attack it.

[Ken Coleman]

And just me. I would never pay a nickel for tumbling, tumbling.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[George Campbell]

Hey guys, if you're already shopping at Aldi, way to maximize your grocery budget. Good for you. Now here's how to level up your savings. Make Aldi your first stop every week. From fresh organic produce to grass fed beef, to marinated chicken that's ready to cook, to high quality dairy products, you'll be able to snag everything you need without the hassle and nonsense. Just legit quality and low prices. And families like yours can save up to $4,000 a year just by shopping at home. A Aldi. And that's not a hack, it's just a smarter habit. So stop overpaying. Make Aldi your first stop for groceries and watch the savings stack up. Find a store near you@ Aldi US that's Aldi US savings. Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, how you doing with staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and then get a re a personalized plan. Just for you, head to the show Notes. James child's favorite place. Treasure trove of goodness over there. Click on the link titled are you on track with the baby steps? And complete the quiz. Great way. Let me tell you something about winning. I don't care whether you're trying to lose weight, whether you're trying to accumulate wealth, whether you're trying to grow in a relationship. I don't care what it is. Knowing where you stand and having a constant reminder of where's my progress is the key to sustaining growth. We humans need progress. And when we get stuck, if we don't realize where we are in that gap between where we are, where we want to be, it can really slow us down. So that quiz is a fabulous little tool. Brett is up in Maine. Brett, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Yes, I'm 100% disabled vet. I have several benefits. The housing market is crazy. I am trying to figure out should, should I stick to the 27% of my income for the payment and zero down on a 15 year, or should I, or can I move to a 30 year since I have a fixed income?

[George Campbell]

Hmm.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, first we want to say thank you for your service. You're a great American.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, that's. That's some serious sacrifice, man. How are you doing?

[Caller]

Getting better every day by the grace of God.

[Ken Coleman]

Good, good, good.

[George Campbell]

Well, because of your disability rating, the funding fee on that VA loan would be waived, which is great news because VA loans can seem like a great deal, but then you realize they're also riddled with their own issues. And the property requirements are also strict. Interest can be higher. And so I would tread with caution. And the biggest thing I would caution you against is going in with zero down. So that makes me ask another question. What's the state of your financial world right now?

[Caller]

I am three to six months from completing step two. I have a fully funded. Well, I have the. I have the step one completed and put away.

[George Campbell]

Good.

[Caller]

I expect another one to two months to fully fund a three to six month emergency fund, and then after that going to 3B, if I should still accumulate a 10%, 10 to 20% down payment.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you were speaking out of order for the baby steps. You have six months to go to get out of consumer debt.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

Then it's going to take you another three months or so to stack up six months of expenses. Expenses.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Then that puts you at a year from now we'll be in baby step 3B, saving up for a down payment. Correct. Okay. How much money once you're out of debt and you have the emergency fund, how much money could you save up in that? Let's say in a year, if you had no debt.

[Caller]

2,000 times 12, that's 24 grand.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you could save up 24 grand. And what kind of house would you be looking at? Have you started looking at the price range in your area?

[Caller]

150 to 215,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what my goal for you is to be, can we put down 10, 15, 20% on this house? And if that VA loan is the best choice financially based on the rates and the fees and all that, I'm totally fine with you doing that because that funding fee is waived. But I still would stick with a 15 year and work to pay it off as aggressively as possible possible. Because here's what we found. People who take out a 30 year loan tend to pay it closer to 30 years than they do 15 or closer to 10. People who take out 15 year loans tend to pay it off in 10 or if you're the average baby stepper, seven years. And so there's a forced savings plan you have there when you get that 15 year and worst case, it's done in 15 years. How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 27.

[George Campbell]

Amazing young guy. A lot of life ahead of you. And that means this is house searching is on pause because we have a year till we're even saving up the down payment. Another year, maybe year and a half of stacking up the down payment, then we can begin the the hunt. Okay, so here's what that means. Before you're 30, you're going to have equity in that home and be in a place that it's really peaceful instead of going, hey, this is now way too much of my take home pay is being eaten up by this mortgage. And then you're going to pay it off off before you're probably 40. Now that's a game plan for some wealth building right there.

[Ken Coleman]

Love that. Again, thanks for the call, Brett, and glad to see that you're on your way up and hang in there cheering for you. Hold the line. Do exactly what George said and this is going to turn out to be a great, great situation for you. Annie is joining us now in Iowa. Annie, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. So I have kind of an investing saving question. So me and my husband are both investing 15% of our income. We're set to pay off our house next year. And I'm wondering. Yeah, very exciting. I'm wondering with the excess, we're kind of wanting to start saving for a future house and upgrade and pay that one in cash.

[George Campbell]

Love it.

[Caller]

We had a meeting with our financial advisor and he suggested putting it in a Roth IRA so that we get tax free growth versus I had kind of planned on putting that in a brokerage account and I don't.

[George Campbell]

They're wanting you to pull out the contributions tax free. Is that what they're saying with the Roth ira?

[Caller]

Correct. Go ahead and max out the Roth IRA and then five years down the road when we want to step up in house, just pull out the contributions.

[George Campbell]

I would personally just use a non retirement account if you're going to use it for non retirement purposes. I like to keep things real clean. So Roth IRA is my retirement account. A brokerage account is used for things before I retire. And so you will have capital gains on that. And depending on your income and how long you you hold those investments, it'll likely be 15% is what you'll pay only on the growth. So if you throw in a hundred thousand, it grows to 150,000. You'll pay 15% of 50,000 in taxes. And the other thing is, how, how long is this going to happen? Is this like a five year goal to upgrade in house and cash or is it two years?

[Caller]

I would say it's five years. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. If it's five plus years out, investing that money's fine. If it's anything less than that, I start to get a little cautious and go, probably better to park it in a high yield savings account to keep things more liquid because you don't want to get there and go, oh, the market took a negative 24% dip this year. There goes our, our house fund.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So the longer it stays in there, the better chance you have of that money growing.

[Ken Coleman]

And this is going to be a long term plan, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

How many years are you thinking?

[Caller]

I would say five years at the soonest. Maybe 10 years.

[George Campbell]

Love it.

[Caller]

It just depends kind of on our situation in that time. We're not in a rush to move out, but we want to know that we want to pay cash for our next house.

[Ken Coleman]

Love that. How old are you?

[Caller]

26.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh my gosh. Any kids?

[Caller]

No, not yet. Oh, have the house grade off in five and a half years. So we beat the average a little bit.

[Ken Coleman]

Annie, that is incredible. That's what I was wanting to know. Can I just say, you are going to be in like a rare error for a young couple. I love this story. They're already thinking, but she's being patient.

[George Campbell]

About what Caused all of this because most people go, why would you pay down your house? You're 26, you should. You got a low rate. Just ride it out. Invest the difference.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Where's this patience come from for this young couple? What's going on, Annie?

[Caller]

I've been a big fan of the show. My parents obviously have raised me on Dave Ramsey, so that's been a big part of it.

[George Campbell]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

About 180.

[Ken Coleman]

Good heavenly days. You guys are going to be rich.

[George Campbell]

What's your mortgage payment? The principal and interest portion?

[Caller]

Yeah. About 1300.

[George Campbell]

So you're going to free up that amount plus all the margin you have being debt free, which means you're going.

[Caller]

To stack up about. Yeah. 4,000 extra a month that we'll start probably stacking up.

[George Campbell]

50 grand a year saved up for five years, invested.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

You're going to have a couple hundred, 300 grand. 400.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice house in Iowa, huh?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

On top of the equity you have in your current home, which once it's paid off will be how much?

[Caller]

About probably 220, depending in 5 years what the market is like.

[Ken Coleman]

But yeah, I mean, my goodness, your.

[George Campbell]

Real estate agent, the title company, they're all going to be like, what you're paying, you're.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. They're going to think you guys are punking them.

[George Campbell]

30 years old, they're house and cash.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. They're not prepared for it. So, so happy for you. What? What? Great piece you guys are setting yourself up for any. We're just applauding you. Thanks for sharing the details because I think you've modeled the way for a lot of young people that are listening right now. So fantastic job. Thank you so much.

[George Campbell]

Luxurious questions you can ask when you follow the Ramsey plan to a T.

[Ken Coleman]

I am telling you.

[George Campbell]

So proud of her.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Really good stuff, folks. This young generation, they're fine.

[George Campbell]

They're gonna be okay. The good ones are gonna be fine.

[Ken Coleman]

That's.

[George Campbell]

Hey, quick reality check. AI isn't just for sci fi nerds and Silicon Valley tech bros anymore. It's the new weapon of choice for every scammer. With fast wi fi and bad intentions. Identity thieves could be using AI right now to steal your info in ways that would have sounded impossible just five years ago. We're talking voice cloning, deepfake videos, filing bogus tax returns, draining your bank and retirement accounts, and even home title fraud. And it can happen fast. So most people don't find find out until it's too late. So as someone who has had his Identity stolen before. I don't mess around. I use Xander ID Theft protection because it keeps up with today's threats without the crazy price tag other companies charge. You get real time monitoring across your whole financial and digital life. And if something does go down, they'll give you the full white glove treatment like 247 restoration services by pros based in the US and up to $2 million in stolen funds and expense coverage. So you don't need to live in fear, but you do need to be smart about protecting your identity from thieves. So go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282 and get yourself protected today.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Card Union studio alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you're with us. David is up in Florida. David, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, I was calling to see. I lost my job about a month ago and we have a few months left to go until like, money runs out. And I'm just wondering when should I start considering selling my house now?

[Ken Coleman]

When you say the money runs out. Runs out of where?

[Caller]

Well, we have a couple months of savings. Savings and, and also a severance package from my employer.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you using the savings now or are you able to live off the severance?

[Caller]

So far, just the severance so far.

[Ken Coleman]

How much do you have in savings?

[Caller]

About 20,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. What were you making? What was your income, your take home before being let go?

[Caller]

Base salary was 105, plus bonuses.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Are you doing, what kind of work were you in?

[Caller]

I was head of marketing for an E commerce company.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. I'm assuming that you're aggressively. You got recruiters helping you, kind of that background, what you've done seems like you're probably.

[Caller]

No, I haven't. I haven't connected with any recruiters. I've been applying for jobs diligently. I think today I applied for about 20 and, and also they're reaching out to local businesses to see if they need any help with their market marketing.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Maybe, maybe see if I can get freelancing or something. Great.

[Ken Coleman]

I would keep doing that, but I would absolutely. At this stage, because you were at a director level or high level, I would get a recruiter involved because again, they don't win unless they get you something. So I, I would add that to the strategy here.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

But the other thing that I would tell you, and again, I'm giving you advice on what I would do if I were in your shoes. And what I would do is while I'm, you know, prospecting and hustling and connecting. Connecting. I do not want to touch that emergency fund. That's just me. And so while I've got the severance that's paying the bills and you may be doing this, are you working even just side jobs right now to bring in some money to supplement the severance so that we're stacking some cash.

[Caller]

I haven't like applied for any like entry level positions or anything yet. I. I'm just telling you I'm open to working. Yeah, definitely. But.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I would. And my point is, is, you know, whether this is I'm working at a Walmart or I found a manufacturing job where it doesn't, you know, doordash instart. I'm going, where can I get a minimum of 20 to 25 bucks an hour? Because this is just, this is just a, a bridge.

[George Campbell]

But you want to slow down the burn rate. That's the goal here. While getting that job. Are you, is this the only income in the family? Are you single, married?

[Caller]

No, my wife, she works as well.

[George Campbell]

Okay, what is she making?

[Caller]

She makes a little over 80 a year.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so can you guys live off the 80 and not touch this?

[Caller]

Not, Not. No. Not. Not really, no.

[George Campbell]

And what's that due to the. Do you guys have a big mortgage?

[Caller]

Well, we got, we do have quite a bit of bills. Bills. Yeah, we. Our mortgage is about 2,500. Well, if you include like property taxes and insurance, about 2500.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And then you guys have any debt outside of the mortgage, our cars will.

[Caller]

Be paid off like March of next year.

[George Campbell]

Dude, I'm offloading these cars before I burn through my savings. What are the cars worth?

[Caller]

There were roughly probably about 15 apiece. 15 apiece.

[Ken Coleman]

What are doing you owe on them?

[Caller]

Three and five.

[George Campbell]

What are the payments?

[Caller]

About 800amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Why not take eight grand from your savings, pay off the cars. That frees up actual money in your budget every month.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, I'd actually sell.

[Caller]

Would I do, would I do that earlier or would I do. Okay, sell versus I'd sell one at.

[Ken Coleman]

Least, you know, because you have to.

[George Campbell]

Turn around and go buy something is the issue.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I know, but still, I, you know, instead of using that, I, I mean, yeah, I'm with you, George.

[George Campbell]

You'll still 12k in savings.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

You still have severance. You'll free up 800 bucks a month. My goal would be have you guys ever made a budget together? Just sat down and said, hey, here's okay. So I would Go through that very judiciously tonight and say, what can we cut from this? To live on a very bare bones emergency style budget, which means no eating out whatsoever. We are only covering the four walls. Housing, utilities, insurance. Insurance, food, keeping food on the table. That's the major things. Outside of that, there's really nothing else you need right now. Correct, Correct. Okay. And until you get a stable income, until you get back up to making, you know, 200 as a household, we got to live like we make 80 grand a year.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. And you can see we didn't immediately go to you selling the house. That's what you proposed. But let's walk through the numbers.

[Caller]

That's the scariest part to me because I don't, I don't know where, what point do I decide? And I know right now it's taking. It kind of taking time for people.

[George Campbell]

Well, I mean, you guys bring home still four to five grand a month. What is she taking home?

[Caller]

She brings about. Say that again.

[George Campbell]

Is she bringing home four grand a month?

[Caller]

About five to six. And then I also bring in, I have a retirement from the military.

[George Campbell]

And that's what I'm saying. You guys can't figure out how to live on seven grand a month right now, that's the scary part.

[Caller]

We were living. We were, we were. We had about 20,000 or more that we didn't. Well, actually there was more that we didn't need, but we had budgeted in like Christmas and vacations and stuff. So we can cut everything out. We could probably cut back about 30,000.

[George Campbell]

That's what I'm saying.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't need to sell the house.

[George Campbell]

See, the house stays there. Don't touch it.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't want to mess with that. That can't be your fallback. And quite frankly, I think what George has figured out is it doesn't need to be your fallback. This isn't. We don't use the house and then throw the family into disarra unless it's the only option. And I don't think this is. I mean, while you're finding something between your military. Let's run these numbers again for you just real quick. You're bringing in how much a month on the military benefit?

[Caller]

1200.

[Ken Coleman]

1200. And then your wife's bringing 6.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Campbell]

So that's 7200. 7200. A mortgage is 2500 of that. So why do you need an extra $5,000 a month?

[Caller]

Month.

[George Campbell]

Where is this money going?

[Caller]

Well, there is. We had. I Did set up like the envelope plan where a lot of money gets set aside for like birthdays and Christmas and stuff like that. So there's all this money that moved over for like, like saving four.

[George Campbell]

Okay. But I'm talking 60 grand a year that we need to account for here. That's five grand a month. So that's the part where I go, I think we've been a little lackadaisical. We've got a little comfortable and I need to, I need you to feel some fire under your butt to go, dude, we need to do something now. Now we got this debt we need to clean up. I don't have a job right now. Our lifestyle just got cut over 60% because of this income hit. So everything we were doing before is off the table right now. We'll get back to there. Once you're making 120 grand a year again, we can reinstate the sinking funds and the vacation funds and all that. But right now we're not doing any investing, we're not doing any spending. All we're doing is trying to keep food on the table, keep the mortgage paid, keep the lights on.

[Ken Coleman]

And, and George is right, by the way. I'm fully in board with George. I would, I would pay off the two cars here today, like as soon as you hang up. And the reason is because you just gave yourself another 800 to the equation we just ran, which means we're now at 8,000amonth.

[Caller]

Okay, Just, I pulled up my budget. Our bills are about 6,000amonth, not. Not including food and stuff like that.

[George Campbell]

Why doesn't that include food?

[Caller]

Well, that. Well, there's. The way I set the budget up is more like these are non negotiable, kind of like bills that are the same every single month.

[George Campbell]

I don't believe you have $3,500 of non negotiable bills outside mortgage. I would do an audit with your wife tonight and you both go, can we live without this for a season, for three months? Can we live with. Can we scale down Christmas to a, you know, white elephant secret Santa swap? The answer is yes.

[Ken Coleman]

This will be a very popular segment, I think, on your YouTube channel.

[George Campbell]

I'm going to suggest it just slash budget.

[Ken Coleman]

No. A house call from Dr. Camel. It's all zoom, though. And you just sit there and you go through. Because I think you could literally go, I'll give you one.

[George Campbell]

All right, I'm in.

[Ken Coleman]

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[George Campbell]

Types only and are not available in all states or locations. NMLS ID 1591 nmlsconsumeraccess.org/al housing lender.

[Caller]

All.

[Ken Coleman]

Right, Noel is joining us in Oregon. Noel, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, guys. I'm such a huge fan of the show.

[George Campbell]

Thank you.

[Caller]

Basically, yeah, of course. I've been watching you guys for years now. So basically I'm 25 years old and I almost make $90,000 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[Caller]

I'm currently, currently.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do?

[Caller]

I'm doing digital marketing.

[Ken Coleman]

Good for you, Noel. Way to go.

[Caller]

Thank you so much. And I'm currently working on my MBA program and I've been dating my boyfriend for almost two years now. And when we first met, he was making a similar salary to me. But since a couple of months ago, he was let go from his job and now he's been unemployed for going on three months now. We currently live together and my concern is with all of our combined student loan debt, car debt, and consumer debt, I'm a little bit worried if he doesn't find a job, should we continue living together? Do we start splitting everything 50, 50? Do I dip into my savings to help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hold on a second. All right, hold on, hold on. Okay, I got to stop you here. Should we start splitting things 50, 50? What does that mean?

[George Campbell]

What have you been doing?

[Ken Coleman]

That's what I want to know.

[Caller]

So basically, when we decided to start living together, he said that he will Cover the rent, which is about 1300amonth. And I would pay for groceries and our utilities and then everything else we pretty much take care of independently.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And now he can't afford it because he's the brokerage roommate. And so you're going, I guess we need to split. Should I cover who's been, well, wait a second.

[Ken Coleman]

He's been out of work for three months. Did he have a severance?

[Caller]

He got his PTO pay. But who's been paying the rent?

[Ken Coleman]

Who's been paying the rent for the last three months?

[Caller]

So he paid the rent last month and then I paid the rent this month and yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. So now here's what's interesting to me. So you call us and we're so thrilled you did. I mean, couldn't be any happier because this is serious stuff. But the fact that you called us and the way you've set this question up, you're like, it leads me to believe that there's been some conversations maybe, or he has made some statements or there's a pattern of the way he's handling this. It's got you going, oh, there are red flags swirling. So what, what is it that makes you call and ask this question of should this mean that I put the brakes on sharing, you know, all this kind of stuff and not think about this dude as marriage potential? What's happened?

[Caller]

Well, I think what's happening right now is that he has been interviewing for places but nobody seems to be hiring. And he doesn't really want to take a lower paying job or like two part time jobs in the meantime. And I'm just concerned about how what jobs he's willing to take versus not and being potentially too picky in this environment where it also seems like nobody's hiring.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's true. So just a quick, for the rest of our audience and for you, the job market is very soft right now. Unemployment is eking up. This is, this is a real thing. So the job market's very, very soft. So what that means is, is that it does take longer to get hired because companies aren't hiding hiring as quickly because quite frankly, the economic uncertainty with tariffs and everything else, a lot of companies are holding and in a holding pattern. So that's real. But what is also real is this young man for his own mental and emotional health needs to be doing something. And I get the temptation to go, I don't want to go backwards, but yeah, this should concern you. And yes, I would not be thinking about anything in this relationship. I'LL just play your dad for a second. Cause I'm probably old enough to be your dad. Yeah. I would not be thinking about long term with this young man until we see how he handles this storm. This is a real storm. Let me say this on his behalf, so I don't sound like the angry boomer dad. I'm an Xer. By the way, we know from research that losing a job has the same emotional impact as losing a loved one. So I do have a lot of empathy for him, and I want you to have that empathy and understanding that he's three months into having his world rocked. And. And so I do have some sympathy there as well as empathy. But to your question, and I want George to jump in here, I absolutely think today is the day. We. We should have been separate. I mean, I would have never told you to live with the guy, but you are. No judgment. I'm just telling you I wouldn't have told you to do it, but I would be separating everything. What. What is yours is. Is yours. What's his is his. And you guys split everything down. Down the middle. And unfortunately, your romantic roommates. But that's where it ought to be. George.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I think this is not a punishment to him of you. I'm moving out because you don't have a job. I think you go, hey, this was a mistake. And it's just. This is making it more and more clear. And it just makes it a weird relationship now because now you're like, well, does he get kicked out and he has to go find his own place? Because that might be. Here's the thing. I would have more onus if I needed to cover rent that month. I'm going to be doing Instacart that night. But because he has you to float him, I think that's creating a sense of kind of comfort and complacency.

[Ken Coleman]

And yes, it should scare you, by the way, as he's a future mate, potentially. I'm going to tell you something right now, and Stacy knows this. If I lost my job, there is no sitting around for three months. Nothing. I'm working, I'm busting in it. And so, yeah, you ought to be concerned by that, because while I acknowledge that it is an emotional blow, I'm also saying that life sucks sometimes. It hurts. And we don't just sit at home. So imagine you with two littles. And if this happens to this guy. So, yeah, this ought to scare the crap out of you. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I feel like too, like when I talk to him about it. It. Like, my mindset is, like, if I want a job by this date, I'm having it. I don't care what it is or how much it pays. Like, I'm just gonna go get it.

[Ken Coleman]

Love it.

[Caller]

And I just feel like he's waiting for, like, the perfect job. And I. I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Yeah. So, hey, Noel, I'm not telling you what to do in this relationship, but I'm telling you to press pause on the relationship, meaning you're not thinking about what this looks like in the future until we see how this dude steps up. And by the way, George, do you have any problem with her telling him that? I don't, but I tend to be a little bit more black and white, you know, like, just lay it out out there.

[George Campbell]

Well, I can tell she's very professional with her language and her words. And so this is. It's. It's going to feel like an awkward conversation because it is. It's going to be uncomfortable. And how he reacts is not up to you. So that's the tough part. And it sounds like he's going to be probably deflecting, making excuses, probably going to get upset and defensive. And again, that's very telling.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

When's the lease up?

[Caller]

April.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, that's a long ways away.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a long ways away because I was like, if this thing were around the corner, I would just tell you, hey, you know what? Let's redefine the relationship. I'm willing to stay in the relationship, but I'm not going to live with you. I'm concerned about.

[George Campbell]

I need to go find a roommate who was able to pay their share of the bills.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's 100 the case.

[George Campbell]

And I would choose a just female friend at that point. And I would not move in with.

[Ken Coleman]

Anyone else until Sitcom three's Company. You don't even remember that.

[George Campbell]

I do. Company, too. There we go.

[Ken Coleman]

But, Noel, seriously, you've got to take care of your finances. Right. Because your name's on the lease.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And my fear is you go, well, I guess I'll cover it this month.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't cover it.

[George Campbell]

And then month I get a roommate.

[Ken Coleman]

That's kind of a. A real. By the way, that's not passive aggressive. That's a legitimate move. That's protecting your finances. And if Sparky doesn't like it, Tough.

[Caller]

Yeah. I just don't know if, you know, I should just wait and see or if I need to start.

[Ken Coleman]

No, you shouldn't wait.

[George Campbell]

See?

[Ken Coleman]

No, you've Already got an instinct that this dude is showing a lack of character. I'll say it, so you don't have to. That's why you called us. Yeah, and I'm telling you, sweetheart, you're.

[Caller]

I'm.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm begging you as your fake podcast dad. Your instincts are right. Your instincts are completely right.

[George Campbell]

I can tell by your tone you are not being cruel and out of control. Overreacting.

[Ken Coleman]

You are not dramatic, Noel. You are. You are sharp. You've got your act together. And by the way, you deserve a guy, whether you're living with him or not, who's like, man, Noel's worth this hundred percent. I'm not going to sit around and play video games and let her pay the rent while I'm eating ramen noodles.

[George Campbell]

And the research bears this out. Professor Scott Galloway says what women are looking for is a man's ability to provide future resources. And so this is a signal and you should be paying attention to it.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't wait, Noel. Put the pressure, pressure on this young guy.

[George Campbell]

Listen to your fake podcast dad.

[Ken Coleman]

I've never said that before.

[George Campbell]

So much wisdom.

[Ken Coleman]

Take it from your fake podcast dad. You're worth more, Noel. You're worth way more. And you got to take care of you.

[George Campbell]

I get to be fake podcast uncle. Calling it.

[Ken Coleman]

I was gonna say Brother.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Ken Coleman]

The Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? You may think no one can help with your defaulted private student loans, but why Refi is different. They work with borrowers in tough spots without judgment. Check them out@y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey it's not available in all states.

[George Campbell]

Today's question comes from Hudson in New Mexico. My parents are in their early 70s and they think their money will run out in the next several years. Several years? They want me to sell my condo and buy a bigger home with an in law suite that they can live in. They will contribute $225,000 toward the purchase of the new place. Additionally, there is a life insurance policy that will leave me and my mom $450,000 when my dad passes away. The problem is that my wife does not want to live under the same roof as my parents as they do not get along. If my wife drives my parents away, I will end up with with nothing from the insurance policy as they will cash it in instead to use it for their living expenses. What do I do?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, my gosh. First of all, this is framed terribly.

[George Campbell]

He's created, he Just put a wedge.

[Ken Coleman]

An impossible choice.

[George Campbell]

Do I choose my wife or my parents? That's the real question here.

[Ken Coleman]

Boy, so not, it's a non issue. You gotta, you gotta go with the wife. But it doesn't have to be all or nothing on this, George, am I right?

[George Campbell]

Well, there's a, now there's a price tag on the parents relationship. He's going, hey, I'm losing out on half a million. If I go with my wife's side.

[Ken Coleman]

He can tell the parents, hey, you're not living with us.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I don't think your quality of life is going to be great if you do this number one for your marriage, but number two, just for your own independence. My confusion is they're in their early 70s. They can use that 225 grand to go get their own place.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And if they can't afford that, they can use that towards rent for the next several years.

[Ken Coleman]

Such a false choice.

[George Campbell]

I would not combine my financial life. I've only seen it go poorly and it gets very messy financially when you go, well, this house is partially ours because we put in this portion and we want to do this renovation and we want it this way. I think it's going to create an even more rift in your marriage. So for those reasons, I'm out. And I would leave the half a million on the table from the life insurance policy and go, I chose to be married to this person. The old leave and cleave. And this is, we are going the opposite direction with mom and dad moving in, creating some awkward situation and tension.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, because I think it's actually maybe valuable. We'll see. I, I, let's put you in this scenario, George. Let's put you in this guy's actual shoes, okay? Your parents come to you and they say, what, what, what, George?

[George Campbell]

Sell your condo. Get a bigger house with an in law suite. We'll give you 200 grand toward it and there'll be a life insurance policy to help cover expenses once dad passes. I go, mom, dad, that's very sweet of you to bring this idea to me. I talked it over with my wife, Whitney, and it just doesn't make sense for our family right now. Selling a condo is a big move. It's very expensive and you know, we want to help in any way we can, but we don't want to combine our lives in this way, living under the same roof. And we love you guys. And if you need any assistance or advice on what to do with this money to help create a life for yourselves. I'm happy to help.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, good.

[George Campbell]

That's it. That's what I would say.

[Ken Coleman]

I love it.

[George Campbell]

Leave it there.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that. So good. Phil is on the line right here in Nashville. Phil, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, thanks for taking my call. I'm 72 years old and I'm halfway through a 30 year mortgage, so I got 15 years left. I owe $234,500 on the mortgage, which is at 3.5%. I also have a brokerage account of $291,000 that's been earning me 7.1%. I have two IRAs with $750,000 in them and $55,000 annually through Social Security. My question is, should I take the brokerage account money and pay off the mortgage or keep the mortgage for the mortgage interest on my taxes?

[George Campbell]

Mathematically keeping the mortgage for tax purposes doesn't make sense. It's stepping over a dollar to pick up a quarter. And so what? I personally, if I was your shoes at your age, going, man, okay, I'll pay it off by 87 at this rate. I think life's too precious. And I want you to have a retirement with dignity. And for those reasons, I would free up that mortgage payment today. You could cash that money out. You'll have the capital gains taxes on the brokerage account, but you'll still likely have enough to cover the mortgage, right?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, I would do it.

[George Campbell]

And how much is your mortgage every month? What number are you freeing up?

[Caller]

It's $2,380 a month.

[George Campbell]

I just gave you a 2,300amonth raise, my friend. And you can do without what you want. You can go invest that. I would continue to invest it if you don't need the money and just keep piling onto that nest egg. And then you got 55 grand from Social Security. Plus you'll have a, you know, within the next several years, you'll have multi million dollars in there in that nest egg. So you're going to be okay either way. I just don't want to live for the next 15 years with a mortgage if I, I don't have to.

[Caller]

Right? All right.

[George Campbell]

Especially because your mortgage is a guaranteed fixed rate. You're making, right? That three and a half percent is what you're making by paying it off the market. Lord only knows I hope it continues to do well, but in the short term, it could be negative 22% next year. And so it's, it's hard to compare them apples to apples. But what I Will say is freeing up that mortgage, especially at 72, is just going to give you some peace. It's one less thing living in your head. Right. Rent free.

[Caller]

Yes. And that way I would also be debt free. I don't have any other debt.

[George Campbell]

Oh, yeah. You reduce your risk, you reduce the need. Are you touched the nest egg?

[Ken Coleman]

Are you married?

[Caller]

No, I'm single.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, wow. Phil, single guy, 72. You just freed up some money.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Are you in good health?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so likely live into your 90s with this freed up mortgage payment, which is incredible. All right, so I would go crunch the numbers in your budget and go, what kind of life can I live now? Can I spend a little more, can I give a little more? Can I invest a little more with this freed up mortgage payment? And I don't think you're going to miss the brokerage account sitting there. You could stack it back up if you want.

[Ken Coleman]

Right?

[George Campbell]

All right, congrats, man. I feel like we're celebrating Phil's debt freedom today.

[Ken Coleman]

I think we are. And who knows? I mean, the future's bright, Phil. I mean, you're an eligible bachelor. That George just found $23,000 extra income. So come on on, man.

[Caller]

All right. Time to travel, I guess.

[Ken Coleman]

There we go.

[George Campbell]

Hey, Phil, are you a good looking guy?

[Ken Coleman]

I think he, I think he's a good looking guy. I do. He sounds like reasonably.

[George Campbell]

All right. We're gonna, we're gonna apply to get him on the Golden Bachelor.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, it's interesting. True story. This is crazy that you said that. My wife and daughter, I got 16 year old daughter and they love this Golden Bachelor.

[George Campbell]

It's so much more entertaining.

[Ken Coleman]

I've not seen, I've not seen it.

[George Campbell]

Phil needs to check it out.

[Ken Coleman]

But I, I feel like, Phil, you could be the real life Golden Bachelor. I mean, do you know how many ladies out there your age need a stable man like you that's got plenty of dough? I mean, come on, buddy, get on those cruises.

[Caller]

Okay. Thank you so much.

[Ken Coleman]

Congrats, Phil. Hey, Phil.

[George Campbell]

Had enough? Phil said don't get involved.

[Ken Coleman]

He's like, guys, I, I got this, I got this.

[George Campbell]

I asked for financial advice, not relationship advice.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we went to the Golden Bachelor, which, by the way, he may not even know what that is.

[George Campbell]

I mean, it's a television show. There's a thing called television for the young kids out there. I gotta explain it to them.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah. Do you watch this Golden Bachelor?

[George Campbell]

I saw an episode or two and it was a little cringy for my take and that's why I want Phil on there. I think he'd be much better, much better candidate for the show. You know, it's just awkward. They did like, boo. The older ladies are doing like photo shoots and kind of this boudoir thing. And I went, this is too much for me.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. You just said that you just, you took me to a place that quite frankly, I didn't want to go to. I'm not going to unsee that. You're welcome again. You know, in Phil's case though, this is a great thing here. You hear that story and you know, I love that decision, George. I love that the. I love that you walked him through that. And that's, that's such a good. Because to your point, I've seen some data recently. What is the average age now that people are reaching, isn't it? It's gotten higher.

[George Campbell]

Oh, like as far as longevity.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, longevity.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, like, because if you take in the, you know, the average age, well, that's factoring in infant mortality and other things. So when you look at it, if you made it to 72, there's, and you're in good health, there's a strong likelihood you'll make it into your 80s and 90s.

[Caller]

Right, right.

[Ken Coleman]

So. So it's not in that situation. It's not too late. And to your point, I love how you laid that out. You know, like this money can be.

[George Campbell]

Working for you and if he doesn't need the nest egg right now, it just sits there about every seven years it's going to double.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So you have 750 today. Seven years from now he's 79. 1.55 is sitting there. Oh, at 86. It's at 3 million.

[Ken Coleman]

That's fantastic. So quite the like 86 year old George Camel doing with this time with all the money, you're gonna hopefully just not being bothered.

[George Campbell]

I would just like to remain unbothered.

[Ken Coleman]

That means you're just sitting in your lazy Boy. Unbothered.

[George Campbell]

I never said it was lazy. I could sit outside.

[Ken Coleman]

I ask you, what are you doing? And you say, I just want to.

[George Campbell]

Be playing a 99 year old Ken Coleman in pickleball. Now that's my goal.

[Ken Coleman]

Now that's an answer. And I think a lot of people like to see that. I really do.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, we'd love for you to join one of our free every dollar trainings hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. That'll be George Camel. We'll be doing one of those. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find thousands of thousands. That's right. Thousands of dollars of margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth. Plus, you can ask questions during the live Q and A. Here's where you sign up for free, by the way. Ramseysolutions.com webinar ramseysolutions.com it's free.

[George Campbell]

Sign up. You won't regret it.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. Jeff is up in Michigan. Jeff, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Yeah, so 49 years old. My wife recently passed away from cancer.

[Ken Coleman]

So sorry.

[George Campbell]

Sorry, Jeff.

[Caller]

Yeah, so we're good shape financially. No debt other than our mortgage. She was a teacher. And one thing we talked about, not about during treatments and cancer treatment and all that was, you know, we saved all this money. We financially responsible, you know, wish would have done more trips, more vacations instead of just. We did a lot of home projects ourselves. We didn't hire out a lot of contractors. We both have kind of a background and kind of a fearless trait to take stuff on and, you know, where, where's that fine line of living life and still putting money away to do the right things, you know, working still to find what my new budget is. You know, I'm dealing with all that and there's just a lot of stuff unanswered questions and, you know, how recent did she pass? Six weeks ago.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, goodness gracious.

[Caller]

Wow.

[George Campbell]

Well, I, I would just give yourself some grace and time to grieve right now. Yeah, I wouldn't even be thinking about a budget. I would just do enough to make sure your bills are covered and taken care of and you got food on the table. But, man, I mean, I can't imagine the, the fog of grief that you're in right now. And so are you in a good spot financially to just kind of float and grieve and cover the bills and get some help and heal?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. When we bought this house eight years ago, we did everything was based on one budget in one income. If something would happen, looking back, you know, I'm grateful for it, but, you know, it was all based on one income. We both made roughly the same amount of money. I had a little bit higher income, but, you know, was. Yeah. And the biggest thing I'm fighting right now is insurance because she was a teacher, so health insurance was there. And so I'm paying Cobra, which is outrageous. But for the, for the Next four months. You know, all our out of pocket was matched and met in February. So versus starting over.

[Ken Coleman]

What is your, what's your work situation?

[Caller]

I'm a salesman rep.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So you have no insurance through your company?

[Caller]

No, we do not. Okay. Nope.

[George Campbell]

Jeff, one piece of homework I would give you. Check out our friends at Health Trust Financial and see if they can get you a lower priced plan. You can go to health trustfinancial.com and just kind of get the quote and see what, what they're offering, what the rate is to help you shoulder some of this burden right now. Did she have any life insurance or anything?

[Caller]

That's part of my fight.

We had.

She had one that was through school and I found out yesterday I'm gonna get taxed on that one because it was one that she did not contribute to. It was just one that they provided.

[George Campbell]

And I imagine it wasn't a lot.

[Caller]

No, it was 75 enough, you know, covered funeral expenses and everything else when I have to take anything out of savings and all that. Yeah, but, you know, she started her 22nd year this year and, and every other year she elected the supplemental life insurance through school or through the insurance Plan which was 150 to 200k depending on which one she selected or was available each year. And they're telling me that she did not elect it last year. And I have a hard time believing that after doing that every other year. And it's just fighting with few people to try and get the information because I can't access her documents unless they open things up for me. And so she was very detail oriented and I can't imagine she would have not elected that. Right. Last year she was diagnosed. Well, they found the tumor right around Halloween, so all her insurance paper would have been submitted before then. And so it's, you know, it's just those fights, those are the ones that are driving me nuts right now.

[Ken Coleman]

But even without her, even without her income and even with the cobra, I'm wondering how much margin you have every month just off your income.

[Caller]

I'm still clearing. I'm still clearing between 8, 800 and your grand.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

Where I can. That's extra on top of your bill right now, after all bills are paid. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, your question was how do you balance? Okay, including cobra.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, good.

[George Campbell]

So you're wanting to know how you balance, quote, living for today versus saving for the future, especially after, after, you know, your life just changed dramatically. I mean, the picture that you had for the future is just gone. And you have to grieve that and create a new one for yourself. And you're still a young guy. You're 49. Are you in good health?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, once, once you've grieved and you've begun to heal, I think then you can start dreaming a little bit again and go, okay, what does the next five year, 10, year 15 plan look like for me? And part of that is intentionality, just, you know, let's get the mortgage knocked out in the next decade. But also, what are the things that were on the back burner that you don't want to have regrets about later on?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I, I'm curious to know what your investment portfolio is, what your retirement accounts look like.

[Caller]

We're sitting pretty good between IRAs and everything else we had combined. I just that time the other day with our investment guy kind of signing the paperwork over into my name, all her stuff, and then we're still sitting at about 400 there, plus she has a pension. And I'm waiting for the paperwork from the state because the other part of that will be taking a lump sum on the pension or riding it out and taking whatever that's going to be.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Monthly income.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Generally what we find is that taking the lump sum and investing it is a better option if you're not going to need the money because you have control over it. The pension has a terrible rate of return. There's risk there and, and I don't know what the survivor benefits are, if it all gets passed down to you or if it's 50% what the rate is. But you'll have much more control on your own taking that lump sum and investing it. And you said you're 49.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So even with your 400 grand at 62, you'll likely have 1.5 million if you added nothing to it. And so I would just continue on with the baby steps. Do you have kids?

[Caller]

We have an adult daughter with a four year old grandson.

[George Campbell]

Oh, wonderful. Well, I would lean on family right now, lean on that Support, get your 15% investing still into retirement accounts, work on anything extra, put some toward the house. But also I would sit down with a budget and go, what are some fun things that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

That you need to be doing now maybe that you didn't get to do. You know, you were a caretaker, I imagine, for a while and going through a real tough season. So what are those things that do light you up and bring you some joy?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And Jeff, I was of kind going to Ask on the heels of what George just said, I think he's right. Was there a place that you and your wife talked about that you always wanted to go to that you can, that sticks out to you? Maybe you thought, well, that's probably the one she would have most wanted to go to?

[Caller]

Well, the only place we went out of the country for our honeymoon and we cut that short because we both got sick and so she wanted to never go out of the country again. That was her first and only trip out of the country. Okay, and, but what about a place.

[Ken Coleman]

That you guys talked about that you'd like to go to?

[Caller]

We're supposed to go to Yellowstone this past summer. We started planning for that last fall before she got diagnosed.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna throw it out there.

[George Campbell]

I'm gonna throw it out.

[Ken Coleman]

I think that's the trip that you take and you honor her and you make it a part of your healing process. I, I, I, I would definitely think about that. You know, and, and Yellowstone's beautiful. Yeah. You know, and that'll be very, you.

[Caller]

Know, I was so very fortunate for the last nine months that my employer, you know, I collected my pay and just said, hey, take care of family meeting sales. I was able to do a lot of that remotely and, you know, kind of reverted back to Covid times and.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Caller]

You know, so I'm so grateful for that that, you know, otherwise I couldn't get back the nine months ahead.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. What was her name? Jeff?

[Caller]

Kim.

[George Campbell]

Kim.

[Ken Coleman]

Kim.

[George Campbell]

Well, we want to honor her legacy and I know you are going to do that and have done that by the way. You have just lived your life by the way. You take care of your family, take care of your finances, and it's a great reminder to hug your loved ones and know that tomorrow isn't promised. And that's why we prepare for the future, because we just don't know what it will hold. And so we can. You can't go full yolo, but you can prepare. And you guys have done a great job of that. Being debt free, having money in the bank. And we wish you the best on the healing journey, my friend.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it. You got to have a plan. You got to be intentional. And you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went. Our budgeting app, EveryDollar helps you do just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan. For every dollar you've got coming in and going out, now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan. Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Campbell is alongside and Mike is going to start us off in Florida. Mike, how can we help?

[Caller]

So I really have had a few major life events go on. I've recently had to relinquish my rental apartment and move my wife and son into a one bedroom and really had to just stay there and try and save up income.

[George Campbell]

Did you get evicted? What do you mean relinquish?

[Caller]

So I was the sole income for my family and we didn't have the every dollar or the Ramsey Solutions way of doing things. So I didn't have have a budget. And so it just got piling up and piling up and rather than get evicted, my wife and I decided to talk to our landlord and say hey, we, we don't want to be leave on bad terms. And so we relinquished it without having an eviction on our record.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so essentially you kind of broke the lease, had a mutual agreement to say hey, we can't afford to live here anymore. Can we leave Uncle Good terms?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So you guys downgraded to a one bedroom that you can afford. What income do you guys have right now?

[Caller]

So, so right now I am delivering pizzas and doing doordash and uber eats to supplement my income. I would probably say my income is probably around 25 to 30 with that being fluctuational based on tips.

[George Campbell]

So you're making my two grand a month right now?

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

My wife is currently working part time for the county and she's probably bringing in 20k herself. Okay with that. And I do want to explain the one bedroom situation is actually staying with a blended family. I'm staying with my in laws right now in a 10 by 12 bedroom as a family of three.

[George Campbell]

Well, all three of you are staying in there.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And how old is your kid?

[Caller]

And so my son is a year and a half.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, you're in the same bedroom with your in laws. You're all sleeping in the same room?

[Caller]

Oh no, no, no. My wife and my wife, myself and my son are in the same room.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, okay.

[George Campbell]

Got it.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, sorry.

[George Campbell]

And you're not paying any kind of rent or you don't have any expenses there for housing right now. They're just like you crash.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what's your question today?

[Caller]

So my question today is I have a huge passion to start my own business, start my own side hustle. I don't know if it's going to be more harm than good if I was to invest that in a startup and try and bring in some income for myself. I'm very much a, a work or performance based worker. So I'm gonna, I would invest all my time in doing that.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the business?

[Caller]

So I'm a finance guru. I feel a finance and I like to deal with numbers.

[Ken Coleman]

And that doesn't make you. But that doesn't make you a guru. A guru means like you're widely respected because of the. I just want to help you out there because I'm a little nervous about where we're going with this. What is the business?

[Caller]

It's just a bookkeeping, accounting. It's what I want to go to school for. And I feel like bookkeeping would be the first level and doing that.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you done any bookkeeping before?

[Caller]

I have. I have about a year and a half to two years experience, entry level.

[Ken Coleman]

Great. And so right now, let's play this out. What would you charge? What's the going rate for somebody like you with your experience? Experience. I don't know if it's an hourly thing. Give it, give us the numbers here.

[Caller]

So I was thinking it'll be a monthly recurrent fee. I would be charging anywhere from 3 to 500 depending on the size of the companies. If they're a smaller business, it'll probably be about 350. I'll track all their.

[Ken Coleman]

How many, how many hours do you intend to anticipate working for? 350 bucks.

[Caller]

So I'm thinking anywhere from about 10 to 15 hours per client.

[Ken Coleman]

And you're only going to charge 350.

[Caller]

Bucks a month just starting now? Yes.

[George Campbell]

And you have no credentials right now.

[Caller]

No credentials. I do plan on going to school but at this moment I figured increase my income is top priority and so I.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

The reason I'm walking you through this is to be sounding board because that's what you wanted from us. I don't know in this particular. In your financial situation unless you've got previous clients that can open up doors for you and that's certainly worth trying if you've got that to where you could pick up some people on the side and you could start doing this for extra income, then great. The other thing about this business is that it doesn't require a whole lot of investment to get up and going. You're not buying, you're not buying machinery, so that's a positive.

[Caller]

But I'm, you know, no more than $500 just for the startup cost and the LLC created and all right. Computer and stuff like that.

[Ken Coleman]

So I wouldn't put a lot of effort into that right now. I would see if I could get some people. If we can throw the, the, the fishing rod out there, throw the, the cast the rod and let's go, let's see if we can find something and if we can pick up something. Let's just, let's just do basic 1099. If some small business, let's see, we can get. I wouldn't invest a nickel right now, George, in trying to launch this business.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, you guys are underwater right now, so it's not the time to kind of like invest into a passion project. I love the idea of you making income. So if you can get a few clients, let's do that and use the proceeds from that to then fund this thing later on to get the education. But right now you guys can't afford to breathe.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you'd be better served working in Walmart stocking shelves.

[Caller]

I've tried to plan everywhere. I go into Walmart multiple times during the week and I've asked to speak to a manager trying to get that on site job.

[George Campbell]

And, and they tell you go online.

[Ken Coleman]

And I appreciate that gumption, but we don't just. My point is, you keep going, you keep going. You, you right now have got to do anything. If you show up on a construction site and go, do you need a laborer? And, and I'll, I'll get, give me a shovel, I'll carry bricks around the site. Like that's the level of, of urgency that you need right now. We don't just, you know, and I appreciate you went to Walmart, but your response to me should be, you're right, you're right, Ken. I'm continuing to do that and I've done Walmart. It's not working out. But I'm going to go to, I'm going to go to Target next or I'm going to Big Lots or I'm going, you know, and I'm going to show up again on a construction site. I'm going to tell you something right now, George. I've said this before, but in today's current environment, if I was looking for fast money that was decent money, I would literally get in my car and drive around construction sites. Now, I'm not saying that you're going to get something every time you go, but you know, they need, a lot of times you're going to find that they need somebody to just do something. Hard work and, and manual labor is not the place where everybody's lining up. There's not a line out there.

[George Campbell]

If you live in a neighborhood, you got clients there because, you know, as Dave says, rich people are scared of leaves. So you just go around and say, hey, I saw your, your grass a little overgrown. I, I've been cutting lawns in the neighborhood. Be happy to do it. Here's my rate. You're gonna have to get creative until you can get this, this side hustle off the ground. But right now we need to get some consistent income. See if your wife can work more. I don't know what the child care situation is, but if we have that under control, both of you need to be working 40, 50 hours a week to clean up the mess, get to a stable place so that you can rent your own place again soon. But this is, it's a lot going on. It's not the time to pursue this thing over on the side.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your.

[George Campbell]

Back from the first call all the.

[Ken Coleman]

Way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent hey, folks. Coordinating a Financial Peace University class is a great way to stay motivated on your own baby steps journey while encouraging others. When you lead a client class, you get access to the FPU lessons, premium version of every dollar and additional content for free for an entire year. You also get support from a community of other coordinators, our team of experts, and tons of free resources so far this year. This is really great, really great, George. We've seen over $75 million in debt paid off and money saved from FPU classes. So if you love serving others, you got that coach, teacher, teacher heart, the encourager heart. This is a great way to experience life change that you've seen yourself. Go to ramseysolutions.com FPU ramseysolutions.com FPU to get your first class set up, or you can click the link in the description. If you're listening on YouTube and podcast, dawn is up in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Dawn, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hello. I'm looking for a little bit of advice on how I should approach some debt that I have outstanding. Just for background, I'm recently divorced, July of last year. And I had to refinance my house as a result of the divorce. So not talking about the house right now, the only debt that I have is 18k for a car. So I'm trying to determine, do I get a second job, Am I being too conservative fiscally that I could probably pay more of it off now?

[Ken Coleman]

Now, that leads me to believe that you are. It's a very question that you asked there leads me to believe you are. So what, what evidence do you think that you have that says, hey, I could put a little bit more towards this?

[Caller]

Well, just in my checking account, I maintain about 7 to 9,000 month over month after, you know, I pay my bills and everything. So I have that. And then I have in my emergency fund about 31k.

Whoa.

I have some cushion.

[George Campbell]

I mean, you could pay off the car today if you were doing the baby steps. We'd say start with a thousand bucks in the starter emergency fund, pay off all debt. You have enough to do that, then begin three to six months of expenses. So you're doing the baby steps out of order. But the good news is you could be debt free today and you could burn less brain calories on this whole thing.

[Caller]

I guess it's just me now, so I guess if something happened with my job, I don't anticipate that. But if something happened with my job, job, then I'd be unemployed and then that cushion would go away.

[George Campbell]

Well, if something happened with your job, you couldn't afford the car, it's getting repoed. And so you've got risk on either side. You've got more risk owing other people money and not owning this asset right now. And you're still gonna have $13,000 even if you pay it off the car today. And then you'll begin rebuilding that. What's your car payment?

[Caller]

415Amonth.

[George Campbell]

So you add that. Now you have that extra margin to add to your emergency savings goal. That's an extra five grand a year right there. And how much can you throw at the, at your savings right now if you freed up that 415?

[Caller]

How much could I if I freed it up? So, so I come Away after I pay all my bills every month. I do have about 1500 left over. Great.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. So what we're saying is, is if there's no car payment.

[George Campbell]

1900.

[Ken Coleman]

Now it's 1900.

[George Campbell]

Well, okay, yeah, that's, that's another 23 grand. If you did that for 12 months, you just put that 1900 away, you'd have about 23 grand on top, top of the 13. So you're going to be fine.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And then you can start investing.

[Caller]

So then that's what I was going to ask you. That was the second piece. So hold off on the invest. I have a little bit of investment now, but hold off. I'm thinking about some EFTs that my friend told me about and I do need to research. So. You mean ETs. I'm sorry, electronically funded trade.

Yes.

Eft. Sorry about that.

[George Campbell]

ETF.

[Caller]

Um.

I keep saying wrong.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, it's all right. We know. But similar thing. Are you. Do you have a retirement account through your employer right now?

[Caller]

I do have a one through my current employer and I do have someone. Some additional ones from a prior employer.

[George Campbell]

Okay, I would get one. The part of your homework is rolling over the prior employer money. I would just do a direct rollover to an ira. That'll give you the most control and flexibility.

[Caller]

It is an ira. I should have said that. Yes. It's already in the ira.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

It rolled.

It rolled over. It's not. It's separate from my current employer, but it is an ira.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you have that. So I would just not contribute anymore until you're out of debt with that three to six months of expenses. So if your expenses are five grand a month to cover all your basic bills, then I would suggest having 25k 30k in there.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

In a high yield.

[Caller]

Okay. And then one other question. So for my 401 1k, I'm currently doing 6%. My employer matches 4% up up to 100k. And then after that it's. I can't remember what it is. It's 50 after that.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Did I not increase my 6% while I'm trying to pay off do all these.

[George Campbell]

Well, you just told me you would be willing to pause all investing until you. You get into a better spot financially. And it won't be long, but I would pause that 6% because how much do you make? Make a year?

[Caller]

About 157.

[George Campbell]

So think about. So 157.6% is $9,400 extra. You could be throwing your emergency fund which Means it's going to get done faster. So here's the honest truth. You could be done with this whole thing five, six months from now. You could be debt free completely. If you pay off the car today, then restock the emergency fund over the next five months and you'll be back to investing not 6% but 15%. You're almost going to triple your investing rate.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you see that?

[Caller]

I see some of what you're saying. So you're saying what I. What I'll lose from my employer not matching because if I stop doing my piece, they don't match anything. So you said what I'll lose on that is not significant enough to make me go the other route.

[George Campbell]

Exactly. And the other thing it does, it lights a fire under you. Because you love that match, you want to get back to that match. Which means you're working even harder to get that emergency fund back back stocked up. That's what I found. That's human nature.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, here's what's cool about this. You're working really hard to restock your emergency fund on not working really crazy to pay off a car. That is a depreciating asset.

[Caller]

Right. I'm. That makes total sense how you just said it. I'm working. I work hard to build savings. Not. Yes, pay for something that goes down in value.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

You're building for the future instead of paying for the past. And it this way.

[Ken Coleman]

And yes. And by the way, we love that you called Don because it is a very real psychological hurdle to. To cut a big check from an emergency fund. Totally get it. However, the reason I told you about how you're working hard to replenish your savings so that you can invest and start on your path to becoming a millionaire. Which I want George to paint a picture for that in just a moment. But understand that the minute that you pay the car off, which is a depreciating asset, you also are now freeing up 400 plus dollars a month right back into your pocket. So I just want you to see that full picture so you can overcome that psychology of oh, I don't like writing a big check out of an emergency fund. That's why I asked you. Do you see it?

[Caller]

I do. I just got to get over because it's just me now, you know.

[Ken Coleman]

Totally get it.

[Caller]

I'm divorced. So I do get you're saying though.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Well, because if you see it, you believe it.

[Caller]

The other thing I've been thinking about is getting the part time job.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

My full time job and get a part time job to help with this. You think that makes sense as well?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. And I'll tell you why. I don't know what George thinks, but I say yes because it's going to further help you with the psychology that I just outlined. Like, think about how much you think about how much more secure you're to feel because you're bringing in that extra money.

[Caller]

Got it.

[George Campbell]

And here's the truth. You don't need it financially.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't need.

[George Campbell]

You're gonna get through this pretty fast. But I do think it's gonna light a fire under you after you just went through one of the hardest things a human could experience.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And I think action always helps with healing versus just sitting around bridging Netflix.

[Ken Coleman]

Now, real quick, George, paint a picture for her when she gets to baby step four.

[George Campbell]

Oh, let's do it.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's do the investment calculator.

[George Campbell]

What's your total retirement investment calculator? Investments right now.

[Caller]

About 380k.

[George Campbell]

I like. Okay. How old are you?

[Caller]

I am 56.

[George Campbell]

56. Now we're gonna ride this out. You make 157. That's before the bonus. But if you do 15, you're gonna be maxing out a 401k. That's 23,5 right there. Do you understand that? Okay, so that's, let's say two grand a month. You're gonna have quite the nest egg. Let's say you do this till 6. 67.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, boy. Let me see it. Let me see it before you tell her.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, there it is. Oh, boy. Don, are you ready for this? George, tee it up.

[Caller]

I am.

[George Campbell]

1.6 million at 67.

[Caller]

I don't know how you did the math.

[George Campbell]

Tell her you can jump on ramseysolutions.com. use our free investing calculator. You're 56 current age. I did 67 retirement age. Currently you have 380 grand. If you contribute 2 grand a month and we assume a 10% return rate of return, that's what we've seen Overall in the US stock market, you're going to have 1.6 million. Only 264,000 of that is the money you put in. Almost a million is just compound growth doing the heavy lifting for you.

[Ken Coleman]

Go do it yourself, Don, so you can see he's not making magic over here.

[George Campbell]

This is real numbers pump for you, Don. You got a great income. Let's use it to build some wealth.

[Ken Coleman]

Go, Don. Go.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new Dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse Over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th and early bird prices start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets [e-mail] event. Hey folks, we would love for you to share the show. If this show is helping you entertaining you in any form or fashion. Share Like Follow subscribe the whole 9 yards.

[George Campbell]

Smash all the buttons you see. Oh, that's what the YouTubers say. Smash the like button.

[Ken Coleman]

Is this thing? Is this a thing?

[George Campbell]

100%.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, it cracks me up how often between you and Jade, I hear something new and I've never heard before.

[George Campbell]

I give Ken an education every day against his will.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I wonder. I actually appreciate it. I'm not, but I will say I'm not comfortable ever saying the word smash in a video. I feel like I'm too old for that. If you hear me do it, I want you to just hit me right.

[George Campbell]

Your teenage daughter would not like it. Oh, she would hate it. She would call it cringe.

[Ken Coleman]

She would say, dad, that's so cringe.

[George Campbell]

There we go.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, there's certain words that I don't think I, I should say. There's too young for me, you know.

[George Campbell]

And that's why just because you don't like something, it's not your preference, doesn't make it cringe. Can we just drop that?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Very bothersome.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you very much. What is cringe to you? Someone else likes, you know, kind of like my cardigan sweaters.

[George Campbell]

That is cringe now. You're aging into it very nicely.

[Ken Coleman]

It's perfect.

[George Campbell]

Aging very well.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, we digress. Scott is up in North Carolina. Scott, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, good afternoon, guys. So I overall had a question. Based on my current financial situation and thinking ahead now that I'm getting a little older, as to whether or not to pull some money out and renovate a separate building on my residential property to rent out as like a one bedroom, one bath studio kind of apartment.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice. How much money would it cost to renovate this?

[Caller]

Currently, I'm thinking it's probably going around 40k to renovate it.

[Ken Coleman]

And what will it turn into? What will that give you? 40 grand. For how many Square feet. And then also what do you think you would be able to make on rental so big?

[Caller]

Around 650, 700 square feet. And the realtors that I spoke with based on the location, et cetera, estimated around $1,000 a month. But I was thinking 800 as conservative number.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, and what would it add to the overall property value, you know, for resale?

[Caller]

Now that aspect honestly I haven't really discussed with them that much. So I'm honestly not sure.

[Ken Coleman]

You planning to be there forever?

[Caller]

Currently, yes. I mean let me do the question because they just revaluation of property taxes here and they like shot up.

[Ken Coleman]

But see that's why even though you're, you're planning to stay there forever, if I'm going to sink 40 grand into something, George, on my property, I'm automatically going to go how much value to this ad to the entire thing if I were to sell. So right now you got your home X, amount of bedrooms, bath, acreage, whatever. And now I've created a second living area on there. So that would be one thing, but if you're staying there forever that's fine. But I still think it's worth looking into. And then the other thing is, is how, what do you think? What gives you a lot of confidence or how much confidence do you have that you would be able to rent this out on a regular basis?

[Caller]

I'm pretty confident. I mean the area I live in, it's very close to a lot of universities, hospitals, things of that sort. So I wouldn't think that I would have any kind of problem finding a long term renter for.

[Ken Coleman]

So it's a one bedroom, you're putting it out there. So like people coming in for football games or tourism or something like that, you're, that's, that's what you think this is.

[Caller]

But potentially, I mean I was thinking more like, you know, like just to establish a longer term renter specifically.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, a long term renter. All right, all right. I asked all the questions. George is, is very particular on these things.

[George Campbell]

Well, I'm just trying to backtrack and go why are we doing all this? Yeah, I don't just cover an increase in property taxes.

[Caller]

I mean property taxes, I mean that. And the thing is, currently I've been with my employers the majority of my life, but there's a lot of change going on and currently I don't necessarily. So I feel, I guess in my position and in the area, I'm not sure that I'd be able to find a job equivalent making to what I make now. So just think, which is what?

[Ken Coleman]

What do you make now?

[Caller]

Not taking into account annual bonuses, around 110.

[Ken Coleman]

I just don't think 1,000 bucks a month solves the problem you're trying to solve.

[George Campbell]

Well, and then where is this 40k coming from?

[Caller]

You said, so aside from my retirement account, I did start, you know, obviously I've tried to save some. I've not been the best at it, but I've tried to save and I did start investing in the stock market during COVID and the returns on that have been pretty positive. So I think between my brokerage account and personal savings, I have around 80 grand saved.

[George Campbell]

Okay, that's actually liquid. You're not going into retirement for any of this money.

[Caller]

Correct, Man.

[George Campbell]

I mean, it's a gamble. It's going to take you probably five years to just break even on this.

[Ken Coleman]

And that's why I'm out.

[George Campbell]

And you also said, said if you didn't have this job, you'd likely have to move to make something similar, which tells me you might need to sell this house before, you know, you even break even on it. So, I mean, 80k, you're fine to cover the property taxes. I just think you're trying to do multiple things at once and go, well, property taxes are going up. Might as well get a rental versus just going, hey, what can I do in my budget to just add a sinking fund and cover this asset added expense. My payment just went up every month. I can handle it. Because being a landlord on your own property has its own problems. There's risks, there's vacancy, there's maintenance, there's repairs, there's the actual renovation, which is probably going to cost you more than you think it will because that's usually how it goes.

[Ken Coleman]

I actually think you're afraid. I think what's driving this is the job situation. That's what I heard. I heard that you're a guy who's not so sure that you're going to have your job for very long. That's what I heard.

[Caller]

Honestly, I think that's the main part of it. Because I mean, ideally I wouldn't necessarily want to handle a long term rental and have that out of stress. Right.

[George Campbell]

I think you just answered the question.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the reason I. Okay, so I'm glad you, you answered that because here's the thing. That's why I drove, I drove in on that point. So fear is driving this possibility. And so if we play this out, the very thing you're afraid of happening, this actually would Be one of the worst things you could do if the fear came true. In other words, 40 grand of cash. And to George's point, there's no guarantee that's going to be 40. So you need that 40K. I'd want that 40K in liquid. I'd want it there so that I had a cushion if I needed a cushion if I lose my job. So the very thing you're trying to solve with this idea, I don't think this is anywhere near the best idea. I think the best idea is to hold the cash and stack the cash.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Leaving it invested and then you getting a part time job will have better ROI in the meantime. So if you're really angling to make a little more money right now and you want to make 750amonth, you can go do that using the skills that you have today.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a great point. Go make a thousand bucks doing something else.

[Caller]

Makes sense. I mean, I do have like, I guess one follow up question around that scenario and I think I already have the answer. I mean, just thinking logically through this, I wanted to kind of pose it to you as well. I mean, because I was thinking like worst case scenario if I were to lose my job because I don't want necessarily want to leave this area, this area I grew up in or whatnot, if I were unable to find an equivalent job making what I make. I mean, I considered potentially cashing out my 401k because my 401k, horrible idea.

[George Campbell]

You're going to be calling us a 60 going, hey man, I'm broke, I don't have anything in retirement and my body gave out, I can't work anymore, I don't have anything in retirement. Yeah, do not cash it out. You're essentially taking out a loan for 35 or 40% by cash out your retirement. Which you would never do that. Right.

[Caller]

And that was my initial thought, was that was like a no go in the back of my mind. So I appreciate y'.

[George Campbell]

All unless, unless you're facing bankruptcy or foreclosure, you never touch your retirement accounts if you're not 59 and a half yet.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, Scott, I want to, if I can. Can I encourage your heart on something? And I'm not saying this critically, but here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing a guy who is looking at a real possibility of something bad happening and you've gotten protective instead. Proactive. I think everything I'm hearing is a protective solution instead of a proactive solution. That's what I hear. And I think that you need to happen to this possibility, not try to go, how do I protect myself from this bad thing happening? I consider a 401k thing, which is a horrible decision. I'm considering spending money on this rent thing as opposed to going, if this happens, I'm going to do this, this, and this. And I'm going to spend my time connecting with people. And I'm going to give you a copy of my book, the Proximity Principle, just as some form of, hey, I'm going to build my network starting today so that if this happens, I can be proactive and not protective. I just sense that over you. And that, by the way, we all fall into that with fear. But I think the best way to handle something that could be a negative that could be coming is to think proactively on how to solve it, not protectively.

[George Campbell]

George, It's a good word. Nothing to add. No notes.

[Ken Coleman]

No notes. Our scripture of the day comes from Psalm 86, verse 11. Teach me your way, Lord, that I may rely on your faithfulness. Give me an undivided heart that I may fear your name. And our quote of the day from Mark Twain, don't let schooling interfere with your education.

[George Campbell]

I know Ken loves that one.

[Ken Coleman]

I do love a good Mark Twain. By the way, I'm reading the biography on Mark Twain right now by Ron Chernow.

[George Campbell]

How's that?

[Ken Coleman]

It's tough read.

[George Campbell]

Really?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

I thought he'd be a fascinating guy.

[Ken Coleman]

He is. Chernow's a little heavy. I just, I don't want to endorse the, the book because. And I got Dave reading it, and Dave and I were talking the other day on the show. He's like, man, that's pretty heavy. I go. And it's, it's, it's just, it's not an easy read.

[George Campbell]

In light of who Twain was. You would think it'd be a more brevity, a little bit.

[Ken Coleman]

A little bit lighter.

[George Campbell]

Fair.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a very good point. Very good point. Carol is joining us in Charlottesville, Virginia. Carol, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi there. So I have an anecdote for you. I was at the credit union the other week, and I was at the teller window, and this gentleman walked up to the next teller window and. And the teller says, how are you today? And he goes, better than I deserve. And I was like, dave Ramsey and.

[George Campbell]

Charlottesville, the secret signal. That's how you know they're a real one.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Did you. Did you, like, give the guy a knowing look and say I know you.

[Caller]

Yeah, I did. I said, I said I know where that comes from. And he chuckled as he was depositing his money.

[Ken Coleman]

Love it. By the way. Can I just, can I just say, Carol, I love that you use the word chuckle. It's one of my favorite words. I don't think we use it enough. So. Thank you.

[Caller]

You're welcome. Okay, so I have three properties. My primary home, my. And two rentals. The duplex and primary home is paid off. But how much based on. How much would you put aside for, you know, like the roof may be replaced one day or the H Vac is going to go out. Is there a percentage of the value of the property I should have a main sinking fund or is there, is there a formula for that?

[Ken Coleman]

Good question. George, what do you think?

[George Campbell]

I don't think there's like an industry standard formula. No, I think, you know, kind of going, hey, 10% of rent if I can afford to put that aside. So if you're renting it for 1200 bucks, can you put away 120 bucks a month? And if you feel like based on the. It also depends on what's going on with the house. Is it a 20 year old roof? Well, you're probably going to need a roof fairly soon. And so I would, you know, you could do an inspection on it and kind of see where the problem areas might be because they'll tell you, hey, the H Vac is okay, but you're probably looking at five years. You're going to need to replace this thing. If it's a brand new property, it might mean a lot less issues. So it really depends on the current state of the properties. But more is always going to give you more peace.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

Did you have a number in mind?

[Caller]

I read have googled this and you know, it says anywhere from 5 to 10% of the property value of the.

[George Campbell]

That feels real high.

[Ken Coleman]

That seems like a lot. What would that be for you?

[Caller]

So each, each of these duplexes one. Well, one of them just got renovated completely and that. That set me back about 42, but that was everything new flooring, siding, windows. Had to replace some floor.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. See, none of that's going to just spring up on you. And that's the stuff you want to get ahead of the stuff you know is coming. And then also have some for the emergency stuff that you can. You can't foresee coming.

[Caller]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So the one I've heard is 1% of the property value. So 10% now, 1% a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, 1% per year.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. So eventually you might have 10% of the value.

[Caller]

One of them is like 300K. The other one is probably 250 because it does need work. But this one's been totally redone. 300. So 1% is what?

[Ken Coleman]

Well on the would be 2500.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I would have an ultimate goal of saying, hey, can we have 30k each in an account eventually.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

But if you can't do that tomorrow, that's okay. But if, you know, one of them needs more work sooner, I would stack that one up faster. And you can always move the piles of money around. It doesn't have to be, you know, 30k here, 30k there. You can move it around eventually if something comes up.

[Caller]

Yeah. I had one account that services both houses.

[George Campbell]

Are they paid off? You have mortgage on both the rentals right now?

[Caller]

Well, yeah. Well, the one that I'm in was paid off and I. My primary residence had a house fire.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh my goodness.

[Caller]

That was completely gutted. That house is paid off but I had to gut that house and I've had to cash flow some of the stuff that insurance wouldn't pay for. So to do that I took a mortgage out on the one rental property to help until I can get settled.

[George Campbell]

Was paid off. But you had. You went backwards to fund it. Taking the.

[Caller]

Yeah, my primary is turned. So I had this grand plan. I just turned 59 last week. Everything was going to be paid off by the time I turned 60. All of my mortgages. And that didn't happen. But still trying to make that happen.

[George Campbell]

What are they worth?

[Caller]

Company.

And what could you.

[George Campbell]

What's left on the mortgages?

[Caller]

Yeah, my. So 150 is owed on this one. That's worth 300. And I owe 27 on the one next door that's worth 250. And then my primary home, the value because it's been totally redone. Everything's been redone. That's probably going to be a half million at least. And that's paid off.

[Ken Coleman]

That's.

[George Campbell]

I'd work on knocking out that 27k rental mortgage and then move on to the 151. And worst case, if you don't like one of them, just sell it and pay off the other one and be done.

[Caller]

Yeah, I've been thinking about that too.

[George Campbell]

You might find the juices and worth the squeeze on how much you're actually making per year and what your hassle factor is and what your time is costing to put the effort in.

[Caller]

Exactly. No. And it's been well I've been living in the one rental while the. My primary home is being renovated.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So that, that was good. I didn't have to pay rent full somewhere else. I'm just living here for free.

[Ken Coleman]

What are you clearing on? What are you clearing on? Both of the condos?

[Caller]

On this one I'm clearing. Well, it was paid off, so probably eleven hundred dollars between the two. So like five hundred each.

[Ken Coleman]

See, that's the point that George is making.

[George Campbell]

It's just for 13 grand a year.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a.

[George Campbell]

Without even the risk and you know, vacancy or pay repairs, maintenance. I'm going. If you sold one of them and put the excess in an investment account, you could probably make 13 grand. Yeah. Truly passively with no headache.

[Caller]

Yeah. Well, I've got 1.5 in my investment account, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Good for you. Why would. I would get rid of one of these? I, I would sell the, the one with more debt on it and then pay off the other one. And you can hold on to that for a while if you want one too. And that's, that's a whole lot less.

[George Campbell]

The thing with real estate is you need a lot of it in order to actually replace your income.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So to make 500 bucks a month, maybe. I don't know if it's, if it's worth it for you. If you're kind of done with it, you're dealing with a lot of issues. The house needs a lot of repairs. There's nothing wrong with throwing in the towel and going, you know what, I tried it. It was fun for a season. I'm turning 60. I just want less hassle factor.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, no, that crossed my mind too. And then, you know, the other thing is I went back through my. I was, I'm not a baby step Ramsey person, but I've always lived below my means because both of my parents were depression era kids. Right. So we always live below our means. You know, we had everything we needed. My father always said if we don't have a cash and we're not getting it, I mean that was the role. So that's how I've been raised.

[George Campbell]

And that'll get you far in life.

[Caller]

Curiosity. I went back and looked at my Social Security statement. You know, for all the years I've been working since like 1984 or whatever. The average, the average of my salary was $48,900.

Wow.

And I'm sitting on 2.5 million at the moment, so I'm pretty, pretty good.

[George Campbell]

Way to go.

[Ken Coleman]

No, you're not pretty good you're pretty freaking awesome. What? You are. That's. That's just phenomenal.

[George Campbell]

That's not even reason.

[Ken Coleman]

At 59, I would unload one of these things and not have the debt on it. You've got so much money in your retirement. That's. George. What is she gonna.

[George Campbell]

It's not gonna change your net worth because that 1.5 million, you know, by the time you're 66 will be three if you don't do anything.

[Ken Coleman]

If you don't do anything.

[Caller]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

I would enjoy my life a little bit more. That's just too much of a headache for someone who's worth what you're worth. That's my opinion. Like, none of this is. You're not in trouble, but this is just. If I look at how much money you're actually making on this for the.

[George Campbell]

If it was paid off and it was a cash cow, it was very little effort and a little hassle factor, I'd say just keep it. You're enjoying it, but it feels like the joy is gone and you don't need it.

[Caller]

It really. I mean, I have great tenants. The tenant that I've had, she's been over here for 15 years.

She.

She is not a hassle. And the tenant that was in this house wasn't a hassle either until she. Her circumstances change. But anyway, you know, and I. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

The people may not be a hassle, just the maintenance and upkeep.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. We're just saying don't buy the need any of this. So you're doing great. Fantastic. Fantastic scenario. Thanks for calling us.

[George Campbell]

Glad to end on a high note.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I love that. And hey, to the rest of you, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace. Christ Jesus.

[Caller]

Sam.