Slow and Steady Wins the Race Every Time

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show - "Slow and Steady Wins the Race Every Time"

Release Date: March 17, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network (Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney)
Description: The Ramsey Show empowers listeners to build wealth, pursue fulfilling work, and cultivate meaningful relationships by addressing common financial and personal challenges.

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Introduction

The episode, titled "Slow and Steady Wins the Race Every Time," delves into various personal finance and relationship issues faced by listeners. Hosted by Dave Ramsey and co-hosted by Dr. John DeLoney, the show emphasizes disciplined financial planning and the importance of perseverance in overcoming life's hurdles.

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Caller Isaac: Navigating Educational Commitments and Career Advancement

Timestamp: [01:00] – [07:59]

Issue:
Isaac, a 24-year-old outside salesman in the electrical industry earning between $60,000 to $75,000 annually, seeks advice on whether to accept his company's offer to pay for his bachelor’s degree in business. The company requires him to sign a five-year commitment post-graduation.

Discussion Points:

• Dave Ramsey's Perspective:

  • Educational Necessity: Challenges the notion that a bachelor’s degree is essential for advancement in sales. Emphasizes that sales success is driven by performance rather than credentials.
  • Company Fit: Suggests that if a company rigidly demands a degree, it might not be the ideal workplace for someone aiming to excel based on sales prowess.
  • Recommendation: Encourages Isaac to trust his sales abilities over formal education requirements. Introduces the concept of perseverance and integrity as keys to success.

  "[...] Sales is the most well-paid profession in America today. Salespeople make more money than any other profession as a body, as a group."
  — Dave Ramsey [03:04]

• Dr. John DeLoney's Input:

  • Return on Investment: Advises assessing the tangible benefits of the degree versus the commitment required. Highlights the importance of aligning education with long-term career goals.
  • Financial Implications: Points out the potential financial burden if Isaac decides to leave the company before fulfilling the commitment.

  "If you're working for corporate America that is so freakin' structured that they absolutely under no circumstances will interview you based on the fact you don't have a four-year degree, that is not a place you want to work."
  — Dave Ramsey [03:25]

Conclusion:
Ramsey and DeLoney strongly advise Isaac to prioritize his sales career without committing to a degree that may not significantly impact his earnings. They recommend leveraging his existing skills and reputation to advance, suggesting that formal education is secondary to proven sales performance.

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Caller Taylor: Financial Strategies Amidst Separation and Health Concerns

Timestamp: [10:23] – [17:38]

Issue:
Taylor, in Roanoke, Virginia, discusses her recent separation from her spouse after nearly 20 years of marriage. Both partners are facing serious health issues, including a possible cancer diagnosis. They are navigating financial uncertainties while contemplating whether to continue aggressively paying down debt or prioritize building a cash reserve.

Discussion Points:

• Financial Prioritization:

  • Dave Ramsey's Advice: Urges Taylor and her husband to halt debt repayment temporarily to build a robust emergency fund, ensuring financial stability during health crises and potential divorce proceedings.

    "As far as the financial question, yes. Stop paying down debt, pile up cash to survive a cancer diagnosis, whatever her diagnosis is, and to survive the divorce."
    — Dave Ramsey [14:19]

• Relationship Dynamics:

  • Dr. John DeLoney's Analysis: Emphasizes the importance of intentionality during separation. Suggests setting clear goals and timelines to evaluate the future of the marriage, rather than allowing the separation to drift without purpose.

    "Be intentional if you need to separate, have a very clear reason, a very clear timeline, and then a very clear set of action steps for what is going to be accomplished in this time we're apart."
    — Dr. John DeLoney [15:21]

Conclusion:
The hosts recommend that Taylor and her husband focus on stabilizing their finances by prioritizing cash reserves over debt repayment in the short term. This strategy provides a safety net during uncertain personal and health-related times, ensuring they can address immediate needs without financial strain.

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Travis and Aaron: Achieving Financial Freedom Through the Baby Steps

Timestamp: [21:25] – [29:01]

Profile:
Travis and Aaron from Houston, Texas, shared their journey of paying off $405,000 in debt over 17 years. Both are teachers, with Aaron transitioning from retail management to education. Their disciplined approach following Dave Ramsey’s Baby Steps enabled them to become millionaires while managing their finances responsibly.

Key Highlights:

• Debt Repayment Strategy:

  • Aggressive Payment: Paid off $92,000 in consumer debt within two years by following the Total Money Makeover plan.

  • Mortgage Strategy: Focused on early repayment of their house mortgage but paused to allocate funds towards family experiences, which was later completed with the help of Aaron’s mother-in-law.

    "Thanks to my mother-in-law, she just actually paid off the last $70,000 for us."
    — Aaron [24:05]

• Savings and Investments:

  • Nest Egg: Accumulated a net worth of $1.5 million, combining liquid savings and investments.
  • Financial Discipline: Maintained consistent savings and investment habits, ensuring long-term financial security.

• Lifestyle Choices:

  • Minimal Major Purchases: Emphasized the importance of avoiding large, impulsive expenditures to stay on track with financial goals.
  • Family-Oriented Decisions: Balanced debt repayment with meaningful family experiences, demonstrating that financial freedom allows for a fulfilling personal life.

Notable Quotes:

"The freedom and the peace of just being in that place."
— Travis [26:46]

"We were excited. We read that book. She read it first. I read the next day. We both said it sounded great and we just went with it."
— Aaron [22:57]

Conclusion:
Travis and Aaron’s story exemplifies the effectiveness of steadfast adherence to financial principles. By prioritizing debt elimination and disciplined saving, they achieved significant financial milestones, illustrating that patience and persistence yield substantial rewards.

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Caller Ashley: Balancing Dream Vacations with Financial Goals

Timestamp: [31:33] – [38:52]

Issue:
Ashley from Oklahoma City faces a decision between taking a lucrative African safari hunt, valued at $20,000 (with additional out-of-pocket costs), and saving for their down payment on a house. With a household income of $275,000 and no debt, her primary concern is balancing immediate desires with long-term financial objectives.

Discussion Points:

• Financial Flexibility:

  • Current Financial Status: Ashley and her husband are in Baby Step 3B—debt-free with an emergency fund and actively saving for a house, targeting a $87,000 down payment by April 2026.

• Dave Ramsey's Perspective:

  • Opportunity Cost Analysis: Suggests that delaying the home purchase by a few months to accommodate the safari would not significantly impact their financial goals.

  • Value of Experience: Recognizes the personal fulfillment derived from such unique experiences and supports balancing financial goals with life’s pleasures.

    "I would go to Africa and delay my house. I would, too, by three months."
    — Dave Ramsey [35:00]

• Dr. John DeLoney's Input:

  • Justification: Encourages Ashley to pursue meaningful experiences without compromising their financial trajectory, as they are already in a strong financial position.

Conclusion:
Given Ashley and her husband’s solid financial standing, Ramsey and DeLoney endorse the idea of taking the safari trip by slightly adjusting their home-buying timeline. This approach allows them to enjoy significant life experiences without derailing their long-term financial plans.

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Caller Drew: Exiting Poorly Structured Life Insurance Policies

Timestamp: [38:00] – [40:23]

Issue:
Drew contends with two whole life insurance policies he purchased a decade ago, which he now recognizes as poor investments. He seeks guidance on whether to terminate the policies immediately or continue payments to break even.

Discussion Points:

• Dave Ramsey's Advice:

  • Immediate Action: Recommends canceling the whole life policies immediately to stop the ongoing financial drain.

  • Term Life Insurance: Advises securing proper term life insurance to ensure financial protection for his family, suggesting robust coverage at an affordable rate.

  • Investment Shift: Encourages reallocating freed-up funds into more productive investments once the unnecessary insurance policies are terminated.

    "Cancel this crap and do some good investing. With good investments, it’ll be a lot cheaper than what you’re spending now."
    — Dave Ramsey [39:00]

Conclusion:
Drew is advised to promptly cancel his whole life insurance policies, replace them with appropriate term life insurance, and redirect the saved money into sound investments. This strategy aligns with Ramsey’s principles of eliminating non-essential expenses and optimizing financial resources.

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Caller Joel: Structuring a Consulting Business Without Partnership Pitfalls

Timestamp: [52:16] – [61:12]

Issue:
Joel seeks advice on establishing a consulting business with a friend of over 20 years in the industry. Desiring to avoid a traditional partnership structure, he looks for alternative arrangements that ensure mutual benefit without the inherent risks of partnerships.

Discussion Points:

• Dave Ramsey's Stance on Partnerships:

  • Avoidance of Partnerships: Strongly advises against formal partnerships due to their high failure rates and potential for long-term conflict.

    "Partnership is the only sale that won't ship. The only ship that won't sail is a partnership."
    — Dave Ramsey [54:18]

• Alternative Structures:

  • Employee Model: Suggests that one party own the business while the other operates as an employee, ensuring clear roles and compensation without shared ownership.

  • Billable Hours Compensation: Recommends structuring compensation based on billable hours rather than equity shares to maintain financial clarity and accountability.

  • Royalties and Profit Sharing: Proposes mixed compensation models where the business owner receives a majority share, and the collaborator earns through performance-based incentives.

    "The actual ownership, who actually is anything with two heads, is a monster. The actual ownership is one person or the other."
    — Dave Ramsey [55:50]

• Legal Considerations:

  • Partnership Agreements: Advises incorporating detailed clauses addressing potential conflicts, ensuring reciprocal respect, and establishing clear exit strategies.

    "If you fire me."
    — Dave Ramsey [59:42]

Conclusion:
Joel is guided to eschew traditional partnerships in favor of more controlled business structures where ownership and compensation are clearly delineated. By adopting an employee-based model with performance incentives, he can mitigate the risks associated with partnerships while fostering a collaborative and productive business environment.

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Caller Chris: Achieving Millionaire Status at a Young Age

Timestamp: [63:25] – [70:00]

Profile:
Chris and his wife, aged 30 and 27 respectively, have achieved a net worth of $1.1 million by following Dave Ramsey’s financial principles. Their business, a wedding company generating $400,000 annually, exemplifies effective financial management and strategic investment.

Key Highlights:

• Financial Discipline:

  • Savings and Investments: Accumulated $550,000 in liquid assets, $140,000 in general investments, and significant contributions to retirement accounts.

  • Debt-Free Living: Maintained minimal debt, solely limited to their home mortgage, which they plan to pay off aggressively.

    "We were paying off the house, but we have to have this paid off before we come visit."
    — Travis [26:16]

• Business Growth:

  • Revenue Generation: Their wedding company has scaled to produce substantial income, allowing for higher savings rates and investment opportunities.
  • Asset Acquisition: Limited major purchases, favoring practical assets like a reliable minivan over luxury vehicles.

• Lifestyle Choices:

  • Frugal Living: Adopted a minimalist approach to expenditures, ensuring that income is funneled efficiently towards savings and investments.
  • Future Planning: Prioritize financial stability to support upcoming family expansions and long-term goals.

Notable Quotes:

"We're able to travel and do our thing, but it doesn't really feel that different because, you know, I know how fast it can go."
— Chris [66:46]

Conclusion:
Chris and his wife’s success story underscores the impact of disciplined saving, strategic investing, and prudent financial planning. Their approach demonstrates that adhering to Baby Steps can lead to significant wealth accumulation even at a young age, providing financial freedom and security for future endeavors.

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Caller Amber: Deciding Against Bringing a Partner Into a Debt-Stressed Household

Timestamp: [74:39] – [81:58]

Issue:
Amber, a 39-year-old divorced mother of three from Maine with an income of $100,000, contemplates whether to allow her 35-year-old boyfriend, who earns $40,000, to move into her home. She is concerned about the financial implications and the unequal contribution towards household expenses.

Discussion Points:

• Financial Compatibility:

  • Income Disparity: Amber faces challenges in achieving a 50/50 financial split due to her boyfriend's lower income and inconsistent work hours.
  • Household Responsibilities: While the boyfriend assists with cleaning and cooking, there is underlying resentment and reluctance to equally contribute financially.

• Dave Ramsey's Strong Stance:

  • Avoiding Financial Entanglements: Firmly advises against allowing the boyfriend to move in, citing the potential for financial and relational strain.

  • Self-Respect and Standards: Emphasizes the importance of maintaining financial independence and not settling for partnerships that do not offer mutual financial support.

    "Please don't let him move into your home. [...] You’re worthy of better."
    — Dave Ramsey [75:02]

• Dr. John DeLoney's Input:

  • Relationship Dynamics: Highlights that bringing in a partner under these circumstances can lead to long-term familial and relational issues, affecting the children negatively.
  • Emotional Responsibility: Encourages Amber to prioritize her and her children's well-being over convenience, suggesting a reevaluation of relationship priorities.

Conclusion:
Ramsey and DeLoney strongly discourage Amber from allowing her boyfriend to move into her home due to the significant financial imbalance and potential for future conflict. They advocate for maintaining financial boundaries and ensuring that any cohabitation aligns with mutual respect and financial capability.

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Caller Nico: Building Credit Without Traditional Credit Cards

Timestamp: [78:00] – [83:11]

Issue:
Nico from Newark, New Jersey, inquires about establishing a credit history without using credit cards, aiming to build enough credit to eventually purchase a home.

Discussion Points:

• Credit Score Myth Busting:

  • Ramsey’s Research: Highlights that 89% of millionaires did not inherit wealth and that an excellent credit score is not a determinant of becoming a millionaire.

    "The number of them that said, 'The reason I became a millionaire was my credit score is awesome' is precisely zero."
    — Dave Ramsey [79:16]

• Alternative Credit Building Strategies:

  • Manual Underwriting: Explains that individuals with no credit or poor credit can still qualify for mortgages through manual underwriting processes that assess financial stability beyond credit scores.

    "It sounds like you really, really like the idea of getting out of debt."
    — Dr. John DeLoney [81:31]

• Financial Responsibility:

  • Avoiding Debt Traps: Encourages Nico to focus on saving and investing rather than relying on credit, aligning with Ramsey’s philosophy of financial independence through asset accumulation instead of credit utilization.

Conclusion:
Nico is advised to focus on building substantial savings and investments to mitigate the necessity of a high credit score for homeownership. Ramsey emphasizes that wealth creation is more effectively achieved through financial discipline and asset accumulation rather than credit reliance, aligning with the show's overarching theme of financial freedom through responsible money management.

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Closing Remarks and Promotions

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney promote upcoming events such as the Money and Relationships Tour, highlighting cities like Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. They also acknowledge call-ins from successful individuals who have implemented Ramsey’s strategies to achieve financial independence.

Notable Promotions:

• NetSuite by Oracle: Endorsed as a comprehensive business management solution.

• DeleteMe Service: Recommended for protecting personal information from data brokers.

• Ramsey Smart Tax: Promoted as an efficient tax filing service.

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Conclusion

In "Slow and Steady Wins the Race Every Time," Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney provide actionable financial advice tailored to a diverse range of listener inquiries. The episode reinforces the importance of disciplined financial planning, prioritizing debt elimination, and making intentional life choices that align with long-term financial stability and personal well-being. Through real-life success stories and candid advice, the hosts empower listeners to navigate their financial journeys with confidence and resilience.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. Where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Relationships. Dr. John DeLoney, Ph.D. in counseling, Ramsey personality, best selling author, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show is my co host today. I'm Dave Ramsey and we're here to help you like we have been for 35 plus years. Now. The phone number is Triple 882-55-5225. It is a free call. Some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Isaac is going to start off this segment in Rochester, New York. Hey Isaac, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Isaac]

Hey Dave and John, how you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Isaac]

So I'm 24 years old and I currently work as an outside salesman in the electrical industry. I have my associate's degree. I like to go on and finish my bachelor's and my company has offered to pay for it, but they want me to sign a five year commitment. Commitment with them. Should I do that or should I just pay for it myself?

[Dave Ramsey]

Five years from today?

[Isaac]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or from the last time that they write a check.

[Isaac]

Five years from when I would start college, which would be this fall.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, but it's going to take you how many years working at night?

[Isaac]

Maybe two and a half years.

[Dave Ramsey]

At the most three years. So that part's not irrelevant. So really they're asking you to sign a two and a half year, two year contract after you finish school. Because obviously you wouldn't quit while you're in the middle of trying to get them to pay for school.

[Isaac]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what do you make now?

[Isaac]

60,000 before bonuses, after bonuses probably like 70 to 75.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you gonna study?

[Isaac]

Go back to school for business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Isaac]

Well, because in order for me to make more money in this career and move into like a sales manager job, the minimum requirement for any big company in electrical industry is a bachelor's degree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bull crap.

[Isaac]

That's why.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. Not true. Not true. Some businesses require a four year degree. They're not necessarily people you want to work for. If you're a freakin sales manager and you know how to manage salespeople and you got five years or six years of sales experience busting shoe leather on the street causing stuff to happen. They don't give a crap where you went to school or if you went to school. All they know is can you make sales happen? A four year degree has got zip to do with it. Not true. Not a prerequisite in your world. If you want to Go increase your brain power. I'm okay with that. But saying that's a barrier for you to move ahead in sales. Nope. Sales is the most well paid profession in America today. Sales people make more money than any other profession as a body, as a group. Because it's all production based. It's based on your ability, it is not based on your knowledge, it's not based on your resume, it's not based on your degrees. And God help you, your pedigree.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is your particular company that you work for is that one of their just hr, like draw, like they just have a line that says we won't even talk to you. That's like their filtering system.

[Isaac]

Well, my company is a rep firm. We rep the bigger manufacturers, a lot of the big electrical guys. You hear of industry. And I would like to eventually transition to being a like territory manager for one of those bigger companies. And they have that as a requisite to even get an interview now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not true. The requisite to get an interview is you know somebody there that knows your reputation of being a stud salesman that'll get your foot in the door. Listen, if you're working for corporate America that is so freak and structured that they absolutely under no circumstances will interview you based on the fact you don't have a four year degree. That is not a place you want to work. These are fools, they're idiots. I'm serious, man. You don't want to work there if that's really happening. I don't believe you. I think you've been fed some information that you believe. But I think your information is bad. I promise you, man, I've been in sales my whole life. I love salespeople. Can you tell how I got amped up quick? I love salespeople, man. And it's the ultimate ability to kick down a door on production and on ability based on nothing else. But once you have a reputation with one of those companies or this guy gets it done, this is a guy that knows how to leave the cave, kill something and drag it home. He closes the freaking deal that's going to get you in the door more than any dadgum third night school business degree. I promise man. Don't bet. Listen, the ticket to success in America is perseverance, integrity, ability. It is not a degree. Get a degree if it helps you, but don't depend on a degree to get you in the door or open the door. That is not how it works. And I'll send you a book by Ken Coleman to prove it to you. It's Called the proximity principle. It's the number one best selling book. But man, I gotta tell you, the secret sauce for Isaac in Rochester, New York to be successful is in Isaac's mirror. Look in the mirror. You're your secret sauce to success, son. It is not where you went to school or if you went to school. And again, I've got a four year degree. I'm all about education. John's was a. He's got a PhD in higher ed. But am I wrong?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I, I think that I didn't know that was still a thing. I knew that was. I knew that that was a way businesses for the last 25, 30 years, filtered applicants. It was just an easy. Oh yeah, but I didn't know they were still doing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But even then you could bust the filter is my point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You, you can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Like a freaking sledgehammer.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Isaac, I, I want you to consider this. Think of it from the other way. The company is saying, hey, we have a top salesman. We recognize talent. He's 24 years old. We can lock him up for five years to the tune of 25,000 bucks. If he's going to a state school, we can put 25 grand on the table, which is going to be five grand a year to keep him locked up here for five years. If that degree is going to get you a bonus with your, your own company, quick, that's fantastic. I would take it. I'm always a fan of free education. But if, if you immediately, in two years, you're 26, 27, you want to jump ship and go work for one of these bigger companies that you want to do, and you're locked up for another two and a half years with your company. I'd pay the money for the wrong reason. Yeah, that's right. That's right. They've locked you up. So the wrong reason I'd want to, I'd pay the money on my own and just keep doing what you're doing. You've done an associate's degree and just if you want to get a bachelor's degree, keep going. But I like Dave. I like it when companies do that. But man, I always want to see what the return is. Usually it's you graduate, you stay here for five years, and here's what your new raise will be, or here's what your new job will be. Not, hey, you're locked into this job for the next five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that, that's the answer to your question. But the reason you're asking the question is based on faulty information.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is my.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Maybe there still is some big giant corporations.

[Dave Ramsey]

There might be, but my point is still stands. I wouldn't work there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, if you've got the ability to sell, dude, you got the ability to make 200k doing something somewhere without a degree. Now if you want to go get a degree. My business degree has served me well. I use accounting, statistics, finance, whatever, almost every day in my job as the CEO of Ramsey. The things I learned in academia were valuable. They were not, however, the actual sheepskin itself. The four year degree is not a prerequisite to me starting or running this $300 million company. And that is true all across America.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. If you want to get out of sales and you're selling now and you're tired of sales and you want to get into a leadership role where you're not selling so much as your leading salesman, then you're going to want to learn how to do leadership. But even then, man, sitting in a classroom and just taking classes on leadership, that's not how you do it, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

You sit next to leaders taking classes on leadership from a professor who's tenured and has never led anything and let anything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hello.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. Sit with real leaders and do real leadership.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. This is, this is very, very doable for you. Your career is fine. I don't mind you going and getting the degree. I don't want you to go get it because you think it's your ticket to success. That's my problem. This is the Ramsey Show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world. Like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and. And you can, too. Visit Xander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Well, let me try again here. Taylor is with us. Taylor's in Roanoke, Virginia. Hi, Taylor. How are you? I still didn't do it. There. One, two. There he is. Hey, Taylor. I was messing up. I'm pushing over wrong buttons. Like I've never done this before. Hey, man, what's up?

[Isaac]

I got a question. We are in baby step two. We paid off about $30,000 in credit cards in about the last 12 to 14 months. But we. We separated about eight weeks ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Isaac]

Um, I think it's. It was a breakdown of communication.

[Dave Ramsey]

Usually is why we are.

[Isaac]

I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Usually is. Why'd you separate?

[Isaac]

I. I think it's just communication. We. She realized she wasn't happy with some things and want some time apart to figure some stuff out. We are in agreement with finances. We want to continue paying down everything. We're not hiding money from each other. My question is, we're both. Actually, I'm facing a pretty serious health issue right now, and she is, too. Right now. Should we continue down paying everything off, or should we just be stockpiling cash in case, you know, certain things happen with some diagnosis?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, the first thing is how long is the separation? Are y'all just playing separated? A good separation should have a date and a time and a location. We're going to be apart for 30 days, and then we're going to go have lunch at this place. Have you all set that up?

[Isaac]

We've agreed to not make any major decisions for four to six months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And one of you moved out?

[Isaac]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I mean, that. That's a long time. What are you hoping to accomplish for six months?

[Isaac]

Probably just maybe reconnecting, working on the communication issues and just deciding what we both want in life, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think you need to decide do you want to stay married and if you want to stay married. Sometimes if somebody's out of control or somebody's struggling with an addiction, like, hey, I'm going to be out. I'm moving out for 30 days. And at the end of 30 days at this restaurant, at this time we're meeting, we're bringing a piece of paper and. And like, you got to have that six months. Just hopefully, like. Well, you know, like, kind of just. We just want to, like, Kind of think through that's. It's just a recipe for this thing ending up in ash. The second piece is your health stuff. So all that to say is, I would. Dave, correct me if I'm wrong, I'd pause everything and I would stockpile cash. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with the separation. Again, I want you guys to be very intentional. If. Is your. Did your wife move out because it's not safe to be around you?

[Isaac]

No. There's no. There's no abuse. There is no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does she have somebody else she wants to try dating for six months?

[Isaac]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, then what is going to be accomplished?

[Isaac]

Honestly, I. We're. We're trying to work that out through therapy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Isaac]

Right now we're seeing a therapist separately, hopefully eventually to come together. Right now, I think she just. It's in a place where she wants to find out what she wants in life. Like I said, the marriage wasn't perfect, but there was no abuse, there was no infidelity, nothing like that. I can't really give you a straight answer about exactly what happened, but I can definitely say there's no abuse or infidelity or.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, no, no, no. Marriage is perfect, but you try to figure out what you want in life before you say, I do. You don't say, I do, and then get a couple years in and then be like, well, you know, I don't really know what I want.

[Isaac]

But we've been married. We've been married almost 20 years, so I don't know if this is just. And it's. It was always. We've always had a very happy marriage. So I'm just not sure what. Obviously, I want to stay married. I want to work this out. That's my desire. I just. I think she's just in a different place right now, but with both of us facing health issues, that kind of throw the wrench in because I'm actually facing a cancer diagnosis right now. Possibly.

[Dave Ramsey]

As far as the financial. As far as your financial question, yes. Stop paying down debt, pile up cash to survive a cancer diagnosis, whatever her diagnosis is, and to survive the divorce.

[Isaac]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I can't tell what's going on because you don't seem to know. In your relationship, the one clue you did give me a minute ago was it's 20 years, and it's been a hard marriage the whole time. I think she just reached the end and the switch flipped. Yeah. And I don't think that one's coming back. I might be wrong. I've Only done this for 35 years, but once the switch flips, it's hard to get it back. And so it's possible that the therapist can help you guys work this out. I hope, I'm hopeful. I hope that happens. But I would prepare for the worst as far as the marriage goes on the financial side. And that's a big pile of cash. Is easier to split than reduced debt. Yeah, is easier to split. And both of you need some extra cash anyway if you're both facing health problems. So, yes, let's pause on the total money makeover. Money is not the problem in your life today.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not even close.

[Dave Ramsey]

The problem in your life today is relationships and health. And that's what you concentrate on and you let the money flow towards those things rather than towards working the baby steps.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And think, think of, I mean, for people listening, think about that kind of separation. I know it's easy to think if I just had my own space or if I just had this time. I'm just going to take six months to think about it like this. It's like you going and getting a gym membership. Like, are you going to lose weight? I don't know. I just don't know what I want. I'm just going to go walk around the gym and I'll do a couple minutes on this thing and then I'll. I'll get a smoothie. And then that's not how. You're not gonna. You're gonna walk out exactly the same person, except you're going to be minus your gym membership fees. Right. For six months. Be intentional if you need to separate, have a very clear reason, a very clear timeline, and then a very clear set of action steps for what is going to be accomplished in this time we're apart, and then specifically how we're going to come back together and decide what we're doing next. But this. Yeah, Dave, you're exactly right. This is a. She's practicing being divorced. She's practicing what life is going to be like by herself on her own.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because she's had it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And yeah, how I can get her get my feet underneath me. And she just doesn't want to cut the ties just in case she needs a little more time. But that's what exactly what this is. This isn't a. I want to see if I still want to be married. This is me practicing being divorced. And so if I were you, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Would, I would sit with your therapist and say, I need to know from her what she, what she needs for this to be healed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. And have her make that list, because I think you have no idea. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm seeing more and more, Dave, the answer to that question will be, well, I just don't know any more time. Any more time. And what's happening is in some states, whoever files has less of a. Of a. Of a stake in what happens. Right. And the other person can claim, well, this is. He filed on me or she filed on me. And so there's kind of this push, like I don't want to be the bad guy here. And so I don't know any more time. The way I'm phrasing it with some of the people I talk to is that they're just slowly getting drowned and the other person is just. They're out of the marriage, but they don't want to be the. They don't want to have the. The label as I filed. So they can always say, like, he filed for divorce or he divorced me. And so it's something. Something about. Let's call it what it is. Let's put on the table and let's both be adults moving forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Amen.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a mess.

[Dave Ramsey]

Daniel's in Washington, D.C. hey, Daniel. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. What's up?

[Taylor]

Hi. Can you hear me okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, sir.

[Isaac]

I just got a quick question. Me and my wife, we just moved into our first apartment together and just wondering how much. No debt. And just wondering how much we should save for a house and also should we be investing in retirement?

[Dave Ramsey]

If you have your baby step three done, you're out of debt, you have your emergency fund in place, and now you're choosing between whether I'm going to save aggressively for a down payment on a house or whether I'm going to save above putting some money into retirement. We call that baby step 3B. Baby step 4 is 15% of your income going into retirement. Some people in your situation, Daniel, choose to put nothing in retirement for one or two years while they pile up a big old pile of cash for a down payment. And that's. That's. Nothing wrong with that if you're two. If you're just now moving into your first apartment, you've just gotten married. That's wonderful. Yeah. Take two years, see how. See how big old a pile of cash you can come up with. Big down payment is good. More down payment, less debt. It's always good. And so how much can you do in two years or maybe three years if you did nothing into retirement? And you're young, you're just getting started. If you pause retirement for a little while, it's not going to kill you. It's not going to keep you from being a millionaire. I don't want you pausing it for six years. That's not what I'm suggesting. But I am saying if you take one, two years and you maybe even three and you pile up cash for retirement, you'll be ready to roll. That's how that works. All right, open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225. You guys jump in. This is the Ramsey Show. Let me tell you the guys.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's Holy Week in Jerusalem and the city is restless. The people of Israel welcomed Jesus as king, his followers ready for revolution.

[Dave Ramsey]

But instead of taking the throne, Jesus turns the tables. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees. How will you escape being condemned to hell?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Experience Holy Week like never before.

[Dave Ramsey]

What have you done?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Coming soon to theaters. The chosen last supper. Get your tickets now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey Personality Number 1 Best Selling Author is my co host. Today John and I are going on the road. We're going to six cities doing the money and relationships tour. This is gonna be the coolest thing we've ever done. John, we were in a meeting this morning talking about how we're gonna lay this thing out. You guys are gonna be in the audience and you're gonna vote on what subjects you want us to talk about. And five minutes before we go on, we're gonna put them in order and do them. This is gonna be a blast.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wheels off. It's gonna be fun, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wheels off. It's totally riffing. We're going to have so much fun. Anything about raising great kids, handling money fights, estate planning, investing, millionaire numbers. We're going to be in Louisville, Kentucky April 21, Durham, North Carolina April 23, Atlanta, April 25. Then we head over to Phoenix, May 5, Fort Worth on May 7, and Kansas City on May 9. If you want tickets, go to ramseysolutions.com tour. They are not yet sold out. These events typically do. So I suggest you get them before you have a problem. It's going to be a blast. We're going to have a lot of fun that evening. Be John and I in each of the six cities. We're really, really pumped about this format. It's not something we've done before and we like trying new stuff around here. All right, Travis and Aaron are with us in Houston, Texas on the debt free stage. Hey guys, how are you?

[Travis]

Better than we deserve.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. Welcome, welcome.

[Aaron]

And how much debt have you two paid off $405,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa. How long did that take?

[Aaron]

Total of 17 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that works. And your range of income during that time?

[Aaron]

So we started with about 150 right now. Currently we make about 135. And in the middle there for a big chunk goes up to about 250.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. What do y'all do for a living?

[Aaron]

We're both teachers. I'm a teacher and a coach. She's a math coach, actually.

[Travis]

Academic math coach for the elementary school.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so why the income go up and down as teachers? I'm confused.

[Aaron]

I've only been a teacher for six years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay.

[Aaron]

Yes. I was in retail management for almost 20 years. 18 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you chose your love and went into the classroom and coaching.

[Aaron]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay, once you could afford to correct. Okay, so tell us the story. What happened 17 freaking years ago?

[Aaron]

Well, we were doing like most people, I guess, and spending every bit of raise that we got and just, you know, we could afford the payment. So we'd buy it. Now we had the payment and then we came to realize that we're making, you know, what felt like a ton of money back then, and we didn't have any money left over. So one of my friends actually told me about this Dave Ramsey guy. I came home and I told her about this Dave Ramsey guy. We went and bought your book. And she actually read it first in basically one evening, and she said it sounded great. Next day I read it. We both said it sounded great and we just went with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa. Total money makeover.

[Aaron]

Total money makeover.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. Okay, all right, cool. So you just went. You just went hog wild on the baby steps.

[Aaron]

We did sold cars.

[Travis]

He traded in a brand new car that we had just signed up for for a beater.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Travis]

That was one of the pivotal moments for me that was like, okay, he loves cars. He just traded in this awesome car for this little beater car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Betting on the future, baby.

[Travis]

Yeah, very much.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what took 17 years?

[Aaron]

Well, we paid aggressively. We paid off all our consumer debt, 92,000 of it in 18 months to two years. And we were aggressively paying for the house until my son got into about junior high age and we realized we wanted to do some. Spend some money on vacations and some experiences with him. Kind of stopped aggressively paying on the house. We were down to how long do we. We had about 70,000 left on the house. And we kind of just were cruising on it. And actually, thanks to my mother in law, she just actually paid off the last $70,000 for us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa. Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Pretty cool.

[Aaron]

Absolutely. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, just reach over and knock it out. So you were just working a normal baby step four, 15% of your income, going in five kids college and enjoying your budget.

[Aaron]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And putting what you could on the house.

[Aaron]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it slowed it way down.

[Aaron]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you did a whole bunch of this in the first five years of the 17. Yes. Is that about right?

[Aaron]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so this 405 is your house, too. So y'all are 100% debt free.

[Travis]

Every brick. We own all of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is in your nest egg? Your retirement nest egg?

[Aaron]

A million dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And the house is worth, what, 465. Okay. So you're worth a million and a half. Good for you and your. Your age. How old are you two?

[Aaron]

I'm 47. She's 46.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, very cool. And you're millionaires, plus. Well done, guys. So I stink. A book worked?

[Aaron]

Absolutely. We were excited. We read that book. She read it first. I read the next day. I was, man, let's get started. We were excited.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How do you. I think one of the hardest things people experience is getting to that baby step 4, 5, and 6 and deciding that balance between living life and paying this house off. And we see people get it just messy on either end. How'd you guys navigate that?

[Travis]

I mean, I just always wanted to look back and say that, you know, with our son, we had experiences with him that we didn't say, you know, at a later age, we didn't do those things. So that was the balance of figuring out. We still are going to go on this trip, but we're still working aggressively to get this house paid off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, dude, I love that. And how much you guys being on track together on being super responsible. How much of that did your mother know?

[Aaron]

She'd do it pretty well.

[Travis]

Yeah. We. I mean, we are constantly talking about Ramsey to anybody that we can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Anybody kind of looked over there and went, these two could be okay to invest in.

[Travis]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She kind of went like, hey, it's almost 20 years I've been hearing about this. How about I just write this check? You'll never bring it up ever again.

[Travis]

So we actually couldn't come visit Nashville until the house was paid off. She's asked us for years, let's go to Nashville. And I said, I cannot do this until. I mean, we were paying off the house, but we have to have this paid off before we come visit. And here we are now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Way to go. I'm so proud of y'all guys, how's it feel to be. Did you think ever, I mean, when you're 27, you know, you start this 17 years ago, did you really feel like, okay, before I'm 50, I'm going to be worth a million and a half with a paid for house and going to be 100% debt free. Did you ever think that? It's hard to believe, isn't it?

[Aaron]

I mean, I believed it, but I don't know that I thought it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. When you look at the numbers, the numbers say yes, but then you go, wow, my emotions, I don't know if I could catch up. How does it feel now that you're there?

[Travis]

Amazing. The freedom and the peace of just being in that place. Thank you very much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was the sacrifice worth it?

[Travis]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What have you taught your son about going to debt as he's about to leave your house?

[Travis]

He is actually gone. We are empty nest now, so we're in a new stage. And so about a year and a half ago, we went on a bunch of recruiting trips for football in the car a lot. And we were listening to podcasts.

[Aaron]

Hours, hours and hours, eight hours of Dave Ramsey podcast.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh God, poor kid.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's like, any college I'll take, I'll sign up anywhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just get me out of this car.

[Travis]

At one point he turned to me and he said, do you realize that most families in America listen to music when they're on strips?

[Dave Ramsey]

Mom, can you spell Spotify? Well, wait a minute, we're on Spotify too.

[Travis]

Yeah, but I said, you know, I mean, the knowledge that you are getting the community of people of Ramsey, you know, people that are calling in, this is so much more impactful in your life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, I'm proud of you guys. Well done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this is really hard for me as a guy, as a, as a lifelong Red Raider. I'm going to do something I've never done before and that's to tell someone who graduated from Texas A and M University. Well done, well done. It's hard to tell an Aggie well done, but well done.

[Aaron]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Love it. All right, so what school did he choose?

[Travis]

Northwestern. Oklahoma State University.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, very cool. That'll do, that'll do. Is he going to join you for the debt free scream?

[Travis]

He's going to join us.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. What's his name? Cody. Oh, Cody. Okay. And Cody is 18 or 17?

[Travis]

19.

[Dave Ramsey]

19. Okay, close enough. All right, good. Well, welcome guys. Congratulations. We're very, very proud of you. Guys, very well done. All right, it's Travis and Aaron and cody. Houston, Texas. 405,000 paid off in 17 years, making 150 to 250, down to 135. Working the dream job, living life large and in the process became worth 1.5 million. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Travis]

Three, two, one.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're debt free. Yeah. There's that truck tonight, Phil. Yeah, baby.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's how it's done. And that's a long trek.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Most people won't do something for 17 minutes, Dave, and they still get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

A minute and seventy seconds. They can't do anything. Yeah, it's nothing. That's 1.7 seconds. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Perseverance, baby. That's awesome. Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's amazing. Well, great story. This is the Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle. The number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey it's free at netsuite.com Ramsey Dr. John DeLoney. Ramsey personality, number one best selling author is my co host today. The Dr. John DeLoney show as of January 1st, just a couple months ago passed the huge milestone. It is in the top 1/2 of 1% of all shows on YouTube with over 1 million subscribers. Huge milestone. Congratulations, John. That was a big breakthrough. We announced that staff meeting this morning with the golden plaque from the YouTube people and that's pretty cool.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Pretty cool, man. Yeah, I'm really grateful for the opportunity you gave me, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's. You're helping a lot of people, brother, and that's what you're there for. All right. Ashley's in Oklahoma City. Hi, Ashley, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hello.

[Ashley]

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Ashley]

Okay. My husband and I are trying to decide if we should go on an African safari hunt or to keep saving for a house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is the most Oklahoma call I think I've ever got.

[Ashley]

So here's a little situation and background. So we got married this past year and decided for our 10 year anniversary that we are going to go on an African safari and hunt all the jazz. And then a month ago we entered a raffle and found out that we won a nine day all inclusive hunt in South Africa. And it's a $20,000 value. It includes like the hunt, lodging, food, and lord willing, like two animals per person. But after we did our research, it does not include airfare, transportation, gun rental. But the kicker is the taxidermy and the shipping of the taxidermy. In total, all of that comes out to 12,000 to 15,000 out of pocket, which doesn't include like extra excursions or spending money. It's a lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Ashley]

275,000 a year. We're in baby step 3B. So in our first year of marriage, we are debt free with our fully funded emergency fund. We are targeting to purchase a house April of 2026. So in one year. And we're on track for 87,000 for a down pay. And we have a sinking fund for our vacation this year of $2,600. So we see three potential options if you could help us with our first marital financial hurdle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're in a much better place than I thought you were going to be. When we started this conversation, I was thinking this was going to be a hard no when we started. But you make 275,000, you're out of debt, you have your emergency fund, vacations are on the table. You're choosing between the size of your down payment or the distance of your down payment. You could easily say instead of spring with 87,000, we're going to do summer with 90,000 and an African trip. And that would put you about the same place, wouldn't it?

[Ashley]

I said I suppose so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I mean, you delay. What we're saying here is you delay your home purchase and hit your exact same goals, but you delay the home purchase by three months.

[Ashley]

That's a good point.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's really the only question. Would I trade an African trip that I get a $20,000 coupon towards which it sounds like it's a dream trip for you.

[Ashley]

Yes, it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, actually, the voice tone. Let me make sure I'm hearing this right, because the voice tone I heard was not your husband's excited. It's. You are also excited.

[Ashley]

Jazzed, honestly. But, like, so we. We don't know. So we're thinking we could either take the trip and either pull from our house fund, or I guess your perspective is we wait to purchase the home. Or he's like, well, you know, we could take the trip, but don't, you know, don't taxidermy or ship anything and just take really nice pictures. And I'm like, well, I would like to have a zebra rug. You know, like, that'd be pretty cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you can buy those again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is the most Oklahoma call I've ever taken.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is so great. So anyway, yeah.

[Ashley]

If you were me.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would go to Africa and delay my house. I would, too, by three months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Go do it. Go do it right. Yeah, do it right, y'all.

[Ashley]

I did not expect that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But I'm delaying the house. If you. Again, if you were in baby step three or two, the answer would be a hard no. You don't go on vacation in the middle of that crap. Okay. And you certainly don't go to freaking Africa in the middle of that. But you guys make 275 a year. You're out of debt. You're saving for a house. And all we're saying is we would rather go to Africa and buy a house three months later for the exact same money. And, yeah, I think that's not a bad trade. It's a reasonable trade off in baby steps 4, 5, and 6, or 3B. 4, 5, and 6 are where you go from intense to intentional. And that's what I would do. Sharon and I didn't shoot anything except with cameras. We spent three weeks in the incredible glamping or whatever you call it, with these fabulous tents and situations out in the. And got all the big five within just a few weeks on camera. And that is probably in the top five trips we've ever taken. It's an incredible trip.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ashley]

That's so exciting.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's mind blowing. When you are sitting under a tree and the cheetah is above the tree, you're shooting it with an iPhone. It's mind blowing. So I'll just. It's a great trip, and it's a wonderful thing, and I will load up the grandkids and take them when they get old enough. But, yeah, you got to do this stuff, folks, if you're listening out there, in order. And so the point is not Africa, John. The point is, do you do a dream thing when you have the money at the right time? That's where they are. And when I saw this pop up, it says, we want a hunting trip to Africa. Should we go? That's what popped up on our screen. I'm already in hard no mode before I picked up the line, because most of the people call and ask that question are going, I'm so broke, I can't pay attention, and I want to go to Africa because we entered a raffle for something we shouldn't even have done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, and I thought it was a scam. Like, hey, we'll. We'll let you come to the campsite, but you have to pay for this and this and this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that is. It's kind of, you know, they're not paying for everything. It's not a. It's not. Somebody, some wealthy person is furnishing the whole deal for them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it was. It was a hunting trip raffle at a charity. And that's the way they're usually structured. But. And yeah, you can. Then you can make the decision about. Okay, do we want to trade taxidermy for another month?

[Isaac]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

For on the house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it sounds like her husband values.

[Dave Ramsey]

Based decisions you can put in front of you at any moment and go, yeah, I really want a zebra rug. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Say her husband needs to get her a zebra.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man, I'm telling you, there's guys out there that are hunters all over America going, does Ashley have a sister?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man. They're like, man, I'm married way wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's more excited about. Than he is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. He's like, can we just move?

[Dave Ramsey]

Drew's in Chicago. Hey, Drew. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Isaac]

Hi there. Thanks for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Isaac]

Well, about 10 years ago, I was sold a whole life policy.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry.

[Isaac]

And it's only been about recently that I've discovered what a poor investment these things are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. I'm glad you figured it out.

[Isaac]

Yeah. In fact, I should say I actually sold two of them and I'm looking to get out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Isaac]

However, I'm doing the math, and I'm about three years from breaking even on one of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're not.

[Isaac]

Well, according to the cash value, in about three years, I'll have paid the same amount. Like, I could cash out for the same amount that I put into it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so you can make zero Money. Okay.

[Isaac]

Right. Exactly. So I'm just wondering, should I just get out now, take my loss, or should I keep paying this thing for a couple years and if I pedal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Real hard, I can break even? No way, man. It's time to quit throwing money at this thing.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get the cash value out, put it in something that you don't lose when you die. Get your term insurance in place first and cancel this crap. This is the payday lender of the middle class.

[Isaac]

Yeah, that's. That's what I'm discovering here. And I wish it asked more questions when I signed up, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the person you signed up with didn't have the answers. That's the problem. And so. And you bought it a long time ago. And a long time ago people sold more of this stuff. Very few people in the financial world sell cash value insurance of any kind. Now the only ones that do are insurance agents. Everybody in the financial world has figured out that this is an absolute rip. And we've been telling people not to do it for, you know, a couple decades in my case. But in your case, you just, you know, about a decade late finding it. But that's okay. You, you can fix it, you know, if. What would I do if I woke up in your shoes? I would get term insurance in place immediate for the proper amount to take care of my family if something happens to me. Would you go to zanderinsurance.com you can get a quick, easy quote there. They'll shop it among a zillion different companies. They'll get you the best deal and get that in place. About 10 to 12 times your income is what you should have. Most of you to take care of your family because if they invested that amount, it would throw off enough income to replace you. That's the idea. Once that's in place, then cancel this crap and do some good investing. With good investments. It'll be a lot cheaper than what you're spending now. You'll be in great shape. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Warshaw]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John DeLoney, Ph.D. and counseling host of the Dr. John DeLoney Show. Number one best selling author is my co host. Today open phones at Triple 8-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk. Nashville is calling. Nicole is on the line. Hi Nicole, how are you?

[Taylor]

Hi. I'm doing well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Taylor]

Well, I have a question. We are on baby step number too, but we're just beginning. We've really just gotten our thousand dollars emergency fund. And so my husband and I are in our 50s and just starting on all of this little, there's a little bit of a journey that came before this. That means, you know, that meant we were just getting started. Now. Okay, excuse me. On what we're learning from you, but blessed in many ways. So the question though is that now we have our every dollar budget and really what it looks like is we need more income. And so what I'm wondering is I'm a homeschool mom and I have two. My two youngest are still in school, 9 and 11 years old. And so getting an outside job is not really something that I would like to do unless I could work it around what I'm doing with them. But I have found a resource where I could possibly get a certification that would allow a significant amount of income that would work around our home life and homeschool. But it cost $10,000 and I don't have that. So is there ever a time that it makes sense to try to finance, you know, some kind of Education or gaining of a qualification that would give you the opportunity to increase your income, or is that always a hard no?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a hard no, but I would. That doesn't mean I'm against the idea of doing the certification or against the. The heart with which you're approaching this, but never would I finance it. So let's talk that through. What. What does your husband make?

[Taylor]

About 75. Brings home about 75.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much debt do you guys have? Not counting your house?

[Taylor]

Not counting the house, they have about 60. Okay, 60. Well, let's see. Let me look at this note I made before I called you. 35 on our vehicles, 45 in personal debt, and about 4,000 in medical bills. So our every dollar budget covers payments on all those things. So we would eventually, you know, get there, but we just don't. We don't have insurance and we don't, you know, in our 50s. I'm starting to see things that give me concerns for the future. And so just wondering how we could, you know, make some significant progress.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your house payment?

[Taylor]

1100.

[Dave Ramsey]

You own a boat, a motorcycle, or a camper?

[Taylor]

We have one van and one motorcycle.

[Dave Ramsey]

One van. Is that your daily driver?

[Taylor]

It is our minivan, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And a motorcycle.

[Taylor]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the motorcycle worth?

[Taylor]

I do not know. It's. It's new.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, is there dad on it?

[Taylor]

Yes. Oh, I think it was. Yeah, I think it was 13. I'm pretty sure we're upside down in that one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I'm pretty sure that's being sold this week. You can't afford toys. You're a broke homeschool. Mom.

[Taylor]

Yes. So would you just stay with the one vehicle?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's the only car he has. You have one van and one motorcycle. You don't own another car.

[Taylor]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought this was a play toy on the weekends. Okay.

[Taylor]

No, it was actually when my. When my now 18 year old was looking for a vehicle, my husband sold him his car. And then to replace his car, we looked at. You know, some motorcycles are less expensive than cars. This one didn't happen to be. But that was, that was what started us down, that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is he riding a motorcycle without insurance?

[Taylor]

No, no. I mean, we have. Oh, you mean. Yes, yes, there is auto insurance, of course. Like, you know, I'm talking about health insurance.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, yes, he has health insurance, or yes, he's driving around on a. On a death trap with no health insurance?

[Taylor]

The latter. Okay, yes, he's driving a motorcycle with no, no health insurance? He does have life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's so many jokes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. I know.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You just. Okay. I got to clear my head.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I be honest with you? It doesn't sound like. It sounds like you really, really like the idea of getting out of debt.

[Taylor]

Really do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I'm not hearing the idea that we're completely sold out for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or is he?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is he?

[Taylor]

Well, you might. You might. I don't. We're trying a new approach because. Well, I say new when I come to you guys because we. We have heard of Dave Ramsey and known of some of the resources, even use them in our. Our home school, and our. And our children are doing well, but we have struggled to be on the same page financially for quite some time, and now we're making progress in that area. So I'm really glad we've got the thousand dollar.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you're working together with some mixed level of enthusiasm on the together part.

[Taylor]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Taylor]

We see things pretty differently, but we're getting there. And so improvement is good, but I'm just not sure about how we go from where we are to if we need more income.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the secret sauce to you all. Getting out of debt is both of you turn up the heat about three more notches, and that includes him taking an extra job, probably trading his motorcycle for, like, a car because he's like a grown man with children, and he needs health insurance and he needs to get, like, six jobs and get his family help straightened out instead of his wife calling me, trying to do a Hail mary with a $10,000 certification. The secret sauce is for the two of you to get fired up and wired up together, willing to do anything and sell anything to get this thing off a dead center. You can wander into debt. You cannot wander out. And you're really trying. But I get the sense that you're carrying 70%, 75% of the weight of this discussion emotionally, and that's what generated the call, because you're the one trying to fix it. You're the one trying to get the certification. We didn't call with him getting a certification or him doing extra work or him getting rid of his toy that he bought so that your teenager could have a freaking car while you're broke. So that's the kind of stuff that I'm hearing all woven into this. And it's not to fuss at you, but the answer to your question is not a simple Hail Mary. If I could just borrow money, if I could just get this certification, which honestly probably won't work. I didn't even ask what it is, but it's probably some scam. But if it wasn't even that, if it's. Even if it's legitimate, I don't want this whole thing on you being the only adult or the main adult in this discussion, pulling this wagon along by yourself.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And sometimes. Not sometimes, always. You have to lay on a. On a table. Here's our values and here's what we are willing to do to get this thing done. And it may be I'm going to go to work for one year, and our kids are going to go to school for one year, and then we'll get back into this homeschooling thing. But with one year of hard work, you going to work full time. Him taking another job on top of the one he's got.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y'all can be debt free and, yeah, get a, you know, $2,000 car and get rid of the 13,000 motorcycle, but.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You'Re going to have to say our values are worth it. And driving around on a motorcycle without health insurance, I just. I can't think of a less responsible thing a father can do for their kids. It's just not. It's just not wise. It's just not wise.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ask people who work emergency rooms. Yeah, that's what you'll find.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the one request my father gave me after all the years in emergency rooms. It wasn't don't do something great. It was, please don't ever get a motorcycle. And I said, yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, man, but this is the police officer father.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, yeah, but you got to get radical, guys. You got to get radical, and he's got to get on board.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what's happening here, kiddo. You can do this. You can do it. It's possible, but you're ready to turn the notch up. And he's got to be ready to turn the heat up. This is the Ramsey Show.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Personality is my co host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Joel is with us in Cincinnati. Hi Joel. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Isaac]

Thank you. Longtime listener, first time caller.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help, sir?

[Isaac]

So I'm looking to start a consulting business with a friend of mine. We've both been in the industry for over 20 years and we're selling our businesses and we're looking to form a consulting company. And I know you don't and I don't want it to be a partnership. So wondering how else we could structure it. That could be a win win for both of us. We have similar views on things and he has some skill sets, you know, that are different than mine. So I think we could make it make a good team. But I wondered how we could structure without it being a partnership.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If you took on 100 cases how many of them would be you only, him only. And how many would be combined? Because you would need both skill sets.

[Isaac]

Probably, probably. I would say probably 85 to 90% would be both of us. There would be a few cases where, you know, his skill set would be the only thing needed and he would be doing it. And a few that I could handle on my own. But most of them would be a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Joint effort because he has. They would need A and B. And you have A and he has B.

[Isaac]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. I'm trying to make sure I grasp the business model. All right. That lends itself to where most people would go with a partnership. And I'm always against partnerships. It's the only sale that won't ship. The only ship that won't sail is a partnership. And so coaching 10,000 small businesses, the number of them that are still partners 10 years from the start date, other than medical and law, is almost zero.

[Isaac]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

They just don't make it a decade. But for various reasons and life change, life phase, whatever, one works, one doesn't, all that kind of stuff. So I don't know exactly how to, to structure this other than to give you an uncomfortable suggestion, but because it's going to. It's going to make you flinch when I do it. But I'll go ahead and say it out loud anyway. And that is the more dominant of the two of you own the thing and the other one is the employee.

[Isaac]

Okay, I thought about that. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so an example of that in my case is I have a, you know, I've got 1100 team members, a $300 million company. Our senior leadership is called an operating board here. And they're the people that all get paid. They're the top leaders. There's 14 of them out of 1100. They run this company as a group with me and my son, the president. And they get paid off. The bottom line of the company. They get paid as if they were a partner, and they make very good money. And they should. Okay. However, they have zero ownership. The comp structure is they share in the comp as if they were in the, in the profits of the company, as if they were a partner, but they don't own anything. I own it.

[Isaac]

So maybe a scenario would be, say if I say, okay, you know, Jim, you're, you're more dominant. You, You've got a better vision of what we're. Where we're going. So you start the LLC, we work together. We still do a 50, 50 split on that, but you're going to be the one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, or you get paid for your billable hours, he gets paid for his.

[Isaac]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you jump into a company and you end up putting 100 hours in it, he puts 10 in it. They did need a little bit of the B, but they needed more A or vice versa. Then you get paid billable hours and a percentage of profits or something like that. You pool your hours, a percentage of your hours and make that go to the bottom line and split that up if you want, I don't care. But the actual ownership, who actually is anything with two heads, is a monster. The actual ownership is one person or the other. Because at the end of the day, I can, I almost never do, because I run this place on a collaboration basis, like it's a partnership in a sense, but with a large number of people. But because I trust their insights and I trust their intelligence and I trust their business acumen and so forth to run this business with and for me. So I don't really need to go against them all the time, but I do hold the final card. I can play that trump card, that ownership card on top of the deck and win the hand anytime I choose. I do that probably 2% of the time. I doubt. Deloney, I doubt you've ever seen me do it. Have you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wouldn't say that publicly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not public. You wouldn't say you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would admit it publicly that I've seen you do that a couple of times.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you have seen me do it a couple times. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't, I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know what in the world.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's not one of them, by the way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I'm not on the board. I'm on the operating board. I, I actually like, I, I actually like. No, I've never seen Dave say, this is what's going to happen. And if anyone else challenges me, you're out of here. I've never seen that happen, ever. I knew that. I, I actually like the billable hours model because the thing that I hear breaks up these, these tiny teams is I'm working harder than you. And so I like you guys building in from day one an incentive structure that is I get paid for the hours I'm putting in and that way you can go to sleep at night knowing I had to work extra because you took a three week vacation instead of a two week vacation. And I got comped for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And there's some skin in the game. If he chooses to take a three week vacation, there's some skin in the game. He's not just going to ride off into the sunset on, on the back of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you can, you can also say 80% of the billable hour goes to me and 20% goes in the pool.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the pool creates profit and we split the profit. And so you can create some mix over like that. And that's just a comp design that's different than an ownership design. Yeah. And what that changes then is the power flower structure. And then if you decided, or he decided that you didn't need to be together anymore, you can quit as an employee if you make him the LLC guy. Or he could say, I'm, I'm going to go a different direction. I don't need any employees or I don't need this type of employee and I need you to look for something else. And that's a lot easier breakup than a partnership breakup because now we're selling the, you know, we're selling the copier and the desk that the receptionist sits at to try to break this partnership up and split it right down the middle. And it just gets. It's very difficult to break up. And so I always recommend trying your best to figure out some other way to build it. And usually a comp structure change mentality is the place to do that. And that's what we teach a lot in entree leadership.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dave, is there such thing as a, I don't know, another word for it, A prenup for businesses, for people going into a business. Is there some kind of, I guess you'd draw it up in a contract? You can drop it if you want in a contract, but yeah, in this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Case it would be called a general partnership agreement and it would include all, what we always call all the D's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you fire me.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what happens in the event of divorce, death, disability, drug use, default disinterest? I always call them the eight Ds, all the bad crap that can happen. So if you're in a wheelchair, what happens to your share?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And you can't do this job, can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do this job anymore. Okay. From a wheelchair. Maybe you can't. Maybe you can, maybe you can. But I mean, if you lose the ability due to some kind of disability to do the job, obviously if you die, what happens to your share with your wife?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, if you get into, if you start doing cocaine, what are we gonna do?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, so it's a default drug use disinterest. I just don't wanna do this anymore. That's disinterest. Default is I quit coming to work. But I want my half. I had a guy do that on me one time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. He was saying we were in a deal together and he just quit coming. And then he wanted his half. Yeah. Yeah. Bubba, that's not how this works. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I would have liked to have been in that room.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, you wouldn't. It was not fun. Still not fun. It's a long time ago, but I just hate that that's how I learned all this crap is doing it wrong. And so anyway, that. That's where we get to. So guys, figure out some other way. Two old two guys. That's two great guys right there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's the worst.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And they're great friends.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they're. That's the. And it just seems like it's going to work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And they're in there. They're great friends. They're both great employees. They're both good thinkers. Yeah. And then life happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you know, two guys having a beer decide they're going to start a construction company and here we go. Nope, don't think so. We're going to just. We've all got a hammer. Let's do it. You know?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, it's the thing you talk about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got a hammer? I got a hammer.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The thing you talk about with. It's the family.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's the wife that says, hey, don't you own this company? We can go another week. And the, the brother in law.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's not actually the two guys usually. It's actually some, some.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Some weird cousins.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tangential crap. Yeah, exactly. Exactly what it is. Everything was going good until his kid hit somebody head on and he's been in a lawsuit and. Yeah. This is 20 years of hearing these stories. This is the Rams.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys, good news. Presale is on now for my new book, build a business you love. If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard. That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre order your copy today and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at Ramsey Solutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store pre order today. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Chris is in Orlando. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave.

[Chris]

How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve, man. What's up in your world?

[Chris]

Just calling in and living the dream, man. I love listening to you guys. I grew up with the guys in my household and super cool to be here. Thanks for having us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, good to have you. I see on my screen you're a baby steps millionaire. Tell me about it. What's your net worth?

[Chris]

We're right at 1.1 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. And how long, how old are you?

[Chris]

I recently turned 30 and my wife is 27.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, you're young millionaires. So you grew up. I mean, you were like a kid listening to this stuff. How do you get there at 30 freaking years old?

[Chris]

Well, so in our house, debt was a common word. So by the time I got old or older, I hated the word, so didn't want anything to do with it. I honestly thought you were like a long lost uncle. For how long you've, for how much you've been mentioned in our household. So it was awesome. So my parents taught us your principles, but also shared their shortcomings. And it really just gave my brother and I just a tremendous opportunity to. To not make the same mistakes they did.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's your household income?

[Chris]

Well, so we have a business. It brings in about 400,000 a year. I pay myself right around 100, 120,000. And my wife recently left her job as a teacher to come work with us full time. So she works with the business now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. Good for you. Okay, and what kind of business is It.

[Chris]

It's actually a wedding company. So we do. So funny enough, I'm actually a DJ. So I started off DJing and we screw a wedding company. My wife left being a school teacher to be a coordinator, so now she's able to stay home. We're actually expecting our first baby in September.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So is your home. Is your home paid for?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So that's.

[Chris]

It's not paid for yet. And, you know, that's something we're working on. We have some liquid cash, and that's the only debt we have right now is a home.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what is the net worth made up of that you made a million dollar net worth by 30?

[Chris]

Yes, sir. Yeah, it's savings and checkings. We have about 550 of liquid cash, and then we have another 6,000. My wife's savings account, we about 140,000 in general investment. So like the index funds, mutual funds. Then we have a Roth 401K that we set up for our business. We have about 16 and a half in that. And then my wife as a school teacher, she had a 403B 30K in that. And then we have a Roth 401K as well. IRA.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the pattern sounds like that you're a ridiculous saver and you've never borrowed money except the house in your life.

[Isaac]

That's about right.

[Chris]

That's about right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you drive?

[Chris]

Okay, so I drive a 2014 Nissan Versa, a 2008 Mustang that needs a new battery. And then I have a. This for the business. We bought our one new vehicle. We have a 2023 Honda Odyssey minivan.

[Dave Ramsey]

And their wife drives that.

[Chris]

Yeah, well, actually, funny enough, I have adopted the minivan, so the Mustang gets the battery fixed. But yes, yes, he does love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. I mean, because, you know, federal law is wife gets the good car.

[Chris]

That's right. That's right. And if I want a happy life, we need to keep it that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it. Okay. You're doing great, man. Congratulations. How's it feel to be a millionaire at 30?

[Chris]

You know what? It's liberating, right? It's liberating, but it doesn't feel all that different. I mean, I, you know, money can go as fast as it comes in. So for me, it's very freeing. We don't have to think about our finances in the same way that you normally would have to in life. We're able to travel and do our thing, but it doesn't really feel that different because, you know, I know how fast it can go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That $550,000, how much of that would it take to pay your house off today?

[Chris]

About 200.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you waiting on?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are you doing, man?

[Chris]

So that's a good question. So that's kind of like the next thing we're working on. So we actually were. I'm just trying to, you know, make sure that our life is in order for the new baby coming.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it's in order.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have 300, 300 grand left over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do it today.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're 30 years old and you're a millionaire and you make $400,000 a year. You're in good shape, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just get on hold, do it and then come back on and do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That old uncle that was in your old house when you were growing up just said pay off your house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, exactly. Pay it off, dude. You have 500 grand in cash in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your save in your checking account.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, dude, pay it off, man, today. And then call us back in hour three and you can do your debt free scream. That'd be cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

We'll put you on, I promise. Hey, congratulations, Chris. Well done, well done. I was curious what these millionaires, particularly young millionaires, what they're driving. It's very interesting. You know what the average is, is a three year old Toyota for just across the board. Yeah, Toyota. And three of some kind. Three years old Land Cruiser, whatever, Tundra, whatever, Taco, whatever, all that stuff. But I mean, they're driving some kind of stinking Toyota, maybe a Honda or maybe a Camry. Might be a Ford F150. Yeah, but somewhere in that range is what you get two to three years old. That's the typical millionaire, what they're driving. And now these are not billionaires, these are millionaires. And a million is, you know, billionaires. A thousand million. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

These aren't 100 million. These aren't 50 millionaires. Right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not even 10 millionaires. They're one millionaire. That means their net worth, what you own minus what you owe is a million dollars. But for you young parents, I think we just found the formula. Put the show on and just play it over and over for the whole time your children are being raised until they hate my name.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Get it? Get an old frame and just put Dave's picture in it.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is our uncle. This is the uncle, our long lost grandpa. He went away to the gold mines. We never saw him again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly. And he's just hollering about something there.

[Dave Ramsey]

He was yelling about something down a hole somewhere.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. But it's something about debt free or something. I don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I can't wait. One day someone's gonna bring their kid on the debt free stage and be like, uncle Dad. I think it's. That's really him. We found him.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's happened before. Kind of worry about it. Yeah. So that's why we call them financial peace babies. That's what that is. They were raised on financial peace. We don't call them Dave babies because we don't want people to be confused. Think that would be a financial peace babies.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We had thousands, thousands of Dave babies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lots of financial peace babies. No Dave babies, but three. That's it. So, America, I'm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm entrusting you guys to get this thing going. People have read it. Y'all have come after me for a long time. You can, you can make it up for me right now. Dave babies.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, I put, I put at the end on that a long time ago. All right, open phones here at Triple 8-82-55225. In all seriousness, the beauty of taking a baby, why we call them baby steps millionaires, is they became millionaires by following the baby steps. You can become a millionaire a lot of ways. You just need a net worth. What you own, minus what you owe your assets, minus your liabilities is a million dollar net worth. That is a better measure of your progress with money than your income because you can make a lot of money and have none. So your income is irrelevant if you don't do something with it. And so, you know, the growth of your net worth is actually the growth of your wealth. That's the proper measure of your wealth building. And so watching that number and measuring that, we're actually building out a tool. The EveryDollar team is working on it now in beta, and we're gonna have a net worth measurement tool built into your everydollar budget so it pops up. And so as you pay off a debt, your debt goes down, your net worth goes up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, that's a number that most people don't know. I remember the first time my buddy who works in finance, I said, hey, calculate my net worth for me. And he said, all right. And so we pulled up my bank statements and my what I owed, it was negative. Oh, it was red. And he still marks that as one of the top three hardest he's ever laughed in his life. I was like, it's negative. And he's like, yeah, dude, you have negative net worth. And I was like, it's going to take five years to get to Zero. But it was, it was a hilarious. But I did, I had no idea. I just thought, oh, my net worth, probably about, I just had no idea. That tool will be great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Just having something there where you look at, these are my investments, these are my debts, these are the things I own that are assets, these are my debts. And of course, no debt makes it real easy to calculate. Right. And so that's how we measure this stuff and how you help you go forward with it. So it's a good thing. And a million dollar net worth at age 30, which, you know, if it's invested, say not in a checking account, but maybe at something that made 10%, it will double every seven years. So at 37 it'd be 2. At 44 it'd be 4. At 51 it would be 8. At 59 it would be 16 million. At 66 it would be 32 million. If he never adds anything to it and kept it invested at an average of 10%, that's compound interest. The eighth wonder of the world. Einstein called it. This is the Ramsey Show. I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships tour to a city near you. Join me and Dr. John DeLoney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever. Starting April 21, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City. Grab your [e-mail] tour before they're gone. Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by why Refi feeling stuck with defaulted private student loans? Why Refi can reduce your payments, help you get control of your money and that loan for sure. Take the first step by getting unstuck. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Today's question comes from Amber in Maine. Amber writes, I'm a 39 year old divorced mother of three with an annual income of about a hundred thousand dollars. I worked hard to maintain the same lifestyle for my kids that they had before the divorce. So my budget is tight. My 35 year old boyfriend wants to move in with me. I enjoy his company, but he only makes 40 grand a year and he works fewer hours than I do. He thinks he can't earn more money than he currently does. He's happy to help with cleaning and cooking, but can also be Resentful when I ask for help. He also can't afford a 5050 financial split, which has me questioning whether I'm being foolish by allowing him to move in, especially when he can't contribute equally. How should we handle finances and household responsibilities? Or am I making a mistake by bringing him into my home under these circumstances? Circumstances? Oh, geez, Dave. Dang, man. Yes, Amber? You want to break up with him? Just call it. Just call it. Yes, please, please, please, please don't let him move into your home. And not because he can't, quote, unquote, earn 50, 50 split, but because the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Only thing you like about him is his looks, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He. No, I don't even think of that. She didn't even say he's really good looking. She just says, I made that up.

[Dave Ramsey]

I had to join with company value in this guy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I like him sitting next to me on the couch when we're both playing tik tok. I. I don't think you play tik tok. But anyway, listen, you don't. Don't settle and don't have him move in. You don't respect him. You don't love him in that way. You don't want to build a life with him. He's convenient right now. And you are very, very much alone. I'd much rather see you get some friends and begin to tackle that part of your life and to stop. Stop guilt budgeting. And what I mean by that is when people get divorced, they often think, I've got to keep everything the same because my. So that way it affects my kids. Not that much. Listen, your kids have been fully affected. I'd much rather them have that full effect. And a mom that's not stressed every month when it comes to money and not considering letting this knucklehead move in, somebody that you don't respect, even love, move in and play house with. Yeah, don't do that. Reimagine the whole thing. But to answer your question, yes, please don't let this guy move in with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've done so much to take care of your kids. Don't signal your daughter that settling is a good idea. Yeah, don't tell. Don't give her that example. Settling is not a good idea. It's a long freaking life. You settle. Don't do that. And you're definitely doing that here. You're definitely. You know. You know, I was talking to. I was on a leadership podcast earlier this morning. We're talking about hiring people. Well, a bit of a corollary, but not exactly. It's not the same thing, obviously, but sometimes when we desperately need a job done and we own a company, like, I've got this slot that's been open for four months. We've been trying to find somebody, do this work. We can't find somebody to do this work. Then you tend to get aggravated and you settle and you go, I got to put somebody in there, for God's sakes. And this guy can fog up a freaking mirror. Let's put him in there. And it never works out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Never.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you settle, when you're hiring people, and I understand they're different, but they're the same. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it's. It's, you know in your guts, right? You know in your guts you're making.

[Dave Ramsey]

A mistake, you're going to screw up the organization.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And these are long term mistakes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they. They don't. They don't. Not undone quickly or easily and the unintended consequences. You're signaling the entire rest of the people that this is who you are. When you hire this person, when you let this guy in the house, you're showing your kids that this is all you think you're worth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or you almost always. In my case, I can think of a couple of hires. That man, golly, I wish I could have him back and I overrode my team. Or I can guarantee you these three kids don't super love having this guy around because they can feel that mom doesn't even respect this guy. He doesn't. He's not respectable. And you're gonna override the kids. Right? So you always go against the people in your life when you do stuff like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just, man, just don't. Amber. Just don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amber, we love you. And you're. You're worthy of better. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Is your rock star. I mean, you're a warrior princess. You're out there making 100k, raising three kids. You're the mama bear fighting your way through the thicket. And, you know, don't put some guy riding your coattails. Oh, my God. No, thank you. You're worth more than that, kiddo. Open phones at Triple 8-825-5225. You jump in. Nico is in Newark, New Jersey. Hi, Nico. What's up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Morning, guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

How you doing?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up?

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[Isaac]

All right, so I know we talk about debt a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm doing that right now.

[Isaac]

I did the first baby step, but that's been done for like years. And you talk about debt and getting rid of it. And I fully understand that. But my question was there's a few, like, between you, Graham Norton, and a couple other people that talk about, like, just don't have a credit card in general. How can you not have a credit card but build enough credit to eventually buy a house?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I bought a house within the last year with a credit score of zero. I'm assuming that's what it was. Or it said something like, credit not. What is it? Credit not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, not available.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm not available. I have no score. And they do a process called manual underwriting. And it's the way they did it up until just a few years ago, where somebody actually looks at like, dude, you can have $10 million in cash in your checking account and have bad credit. It has no bearing on how much wealth you have. It just. It's just a marker, basically. It's like a. It's like a dating site that tracks how you've. How well you've dated in the past and gives you a dating score. It just does that. Except with debt. That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's your I love debt score. How much have I played kissy face with the bank?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man, that's it. And so it's a. It's a pain in the butt. You have to sit down and go through some extra worksheets, and they want to know, how much money do you actually have? Do you actually pay bills on time? Are you actually employed? Things that actually matter as to whether they're going to get their money back.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, Nico, I had one more thing. The. We did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America. The Ramsey research team did. It's about four years ago. And we ended up studying 10,000, 167 of them. It's a huge, massive study. Detailed, airtight research, okay? And we asked these millionaires in detail, multiple questions to determine how they became millionaires. Did they inherit their money? Did someone give them their money? Did they win the lotto? Are they professional athletes? Where does money come from? From. Where does wealth come from in America today? 89% of them did not become millionaires because of inherited money. Okay? That's number one fact. Let me tell you the number out of 10,000 millionaires that we talked to, the number of them that said, the reason I became a millionaire was my credit score is awesome. How many out of 10,000? Precisely zero. So don't buy a lie from broke people that are going, well, you need to build your credit score, Nico, because that's what all the Broke people do. That way. We can borrow money up to our freaking eyeballs and we can't breathe, but we have a nice 880 score. We paid $150,000 in interest for this 880 score, and no one gives a crap because I have bought a bunch of stuff with money I don't have to impress people I don't really like. And I have a score that doesn't mean anything except I have given the bank half of my freaking life. And I can't breathe because some moron told me a few years ago that I need to get a credit card and build my credit score. That's how it works. Really? Nico just wouldn't want you to miss out, buddy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just. Hey, listen, Nico. Opt out of the system, man. Don't play.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's for me and my house. I'm. I'm out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stay off the grid.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Everybody is hurting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Haven't found anybody this works for. Except Citibank.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm out.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's in your wallet? Money. I don't have any of your freaking plastic in my wallet. That's what's in my wallet. That's how this works, boys and girls. Oh, my gosh. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good question, Nico.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for. It's a really good question. Thank you. And let. Thank you for letting me get on my little soapbox.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Welcome to our gang, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for me. I need to use this caffeine I have for something. But the. Yeah, that's. You know, the truth is that I do not find people among the wealthy who have used credit to get there. How many of you borrowed your way into wealth? None. That's how this works. So don't need a credit score, buddy. What you need is money. Stacked and stacked. Stacked. That'll work. This is the Ramsey show.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing with right now over on the Ramsey network app, Right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey network in the app store, Google play store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.