Small Changes Now Mean Big Wins Later

Summary

The Ramsey Show: "Small Changes Now Mean Big Wins Later" – February 19, 2025

In this enlightening episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey and co-host Dr. John DeLoney delve deep into financial challenges faced by listeners, offering practical solutions and inspiring stories of wealth-building. The episode, aptly titled "Small Changes Now Mean Big Wins Later," underscores the transformative power of consistent, incremental financial decisions. Here's a comprehensive summary of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Navigating Financially Abusive Relationships

Caller: Brittany from Boise, Idaho ([00:52])

Brittany opens the episode with a heartfelt plea for advice on handling a financially abusive relationship involving her parents. She shares a harrowing account of her mother's history of financial misconduct, including stealing from her employer and taking out false loans and grants in both her and her father's names. This behavior has plunged her parents into financial ruin, jeopardizing the upbringing of her nieces.

Brittany ([00:53]): "My mother is financially reckless... she took out false loans in my name... she's just been financially reckless on credit cards in her name and my dad's name."

Brittany expresses frustration over her father's inability to confront his wife's toxic behavior, leaving her to protect her nieces from a similar fate she endured as a child. The discussion focuses on setting boundaries, seeking external support, and considering legal options to safeguard the next generation.

Dave Ramsey ([02:05]): "She's not only reckless... she's like a criminal."

Advice Given:

• Set Clear Boundaries: Brittany is encouraged to establish firm emotional and financial boundaries with her parents to protect herself and her nieces.
• Seek External Support: Suggestions include writing a heartfelt letter to her father, offering to take in the nieces, and seeking legal counsel to explore custody options.
• Prioritize Niece's Wellbeing: Emphasis is placed on ensuring the children are raised in a stable and financially secure environment, free from their grandparents' destructive behaviors.

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2. Overcoming Business Debt and Avoiding Bankruptcy

Caller: Garrett ([10:33])

Garrett calls in with a substantial business debt of approximately $156,000, encompassing vendor debts, a merchant cash advance, and personal loans from his parents. Facing the prospect of bankruptcy, he seeks Dave's guidance on viable alternatives.

Garrett ([10:38]): "I've racked up about $156,000 in business debt, and I've kind of been contemplating bankruptcy..."

Dave Ramsey's Strategy:

1. Assess Current Financial Health:

   • Garrett is advised to evaluate his business’s potential earnings if managed correctly, highlighting a possible annual profit of $100,000 from a $400,000 revenue with a 31% margin.

2. Prioritize Debts:

   • Vendors: Immediate focus on settling vendor debts to maintain supply chains.
   • Merchant Cash Advance: Encourage negotiation to settle for a reduced amount.
   • Parental Loans: Plan to pay off these debts after addressing more critical liabilities.

3. Implement a Strict Budget:

   • Allocate funds meticulously, ensuring that essential business operations are maintained while aggressively paying down debts.

4. Avoid Bankruptcy:

   • Emphasize that bankruptcy should be a last resort, as it may not resolve all debts and can have long-term financial repercussions.

Dave Ramsey ([17:56]): "It's doable. What I just described is very doable. I've done it a thousand times."

Outcome: Garrett receives a structured plan to manage and eliminate his business debt without resorting to bankruptcy, emphasizing discipline, budgeting, and prioritization.

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3. Real Millionaires Share Their Wealth-Building Journeys

In a special "Baby Steps Millionaires Theme Hour," Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney feature genuine millionaires who have built their wealth through disciplined financial practices rather than inheritance or luck. These stories serve as both inspiration and a blueprint for listeners aiming to achieve financial success.

a. Nicole and Dan from Stamford, Connecticut ([45:14])

• Net Worth: $6.3 million
• Key Assets:
  • $2.8 million in retirement funds
  • $2.2 million in real estate
  • $500,000 in mutual funds and a charitable trust
• Strategies:
  • Early Financial Discipline: Avoiding unnecessary expenses and investments early on.
  • Consistent Saving and Investing: Prioritizing retirement savings and strategic investments.
  • Clear Financial Planning: Maintaining transparency and alignment in financial decisions.

Nicole ([46:15]): "We have a net worth of about $6.3 million... our retirement funds are worth about 2.8 million."

b. Mark from Nashville ([59:09])

• Net Worth: $2.1 million
• Key Assets:
  • $1.7 million in real estate
  • $305,000 in retirement accounts
• Strategies:
  • Focused Investment: Emphasizing real estate and retirement accounts.
  • Prudent Spending: Driving used cars to minimize unnecessary expenditures.
  • Financial Literacy: Leveraging education in finance to make informed investment decisions.

Mark ([59:22]): "We set aside a percentage to grow our retained earnings in the business... every dollar has a name."

c. Deborah from Atlanta ([76:57])

• Net Worth: $1.5 million
• Key Assets:
  • $500,000 in Roth IRA
  • $300,000 in real estate
  • $100,000 in cash
• Strategies:
  • Early Start: Initiating savings and investments at a young age.
  • Living Below Means: Prioritizing needs over wants and avoiding lifestyle inflation.
  • Consistent Contribution: Regularly contributing to retirement accounts and mutual funds.

Deborah ([77:41]): "Start early as you can. Live with what you need, not what you want. Don't try to keep up with friends and neighbors."

d. Alex from Sioux Falls, South Dakota ([80:28])

• Net Worth: $1.1 million
• Key Assets:
  • $700,000 in emergency funds and retirement savings
  • $200,000 in home equity
• Strategies:
  • Pay Yourself First: Consistently saving before addressing other expenses.
  • Debt Avoidance: Minimizing liabilities to enhance net worth.
  • Strategic Investments: Focusing on long-term investment growth.

Alex ([80:56]): "Surround yourself with the right people and make sure you're on the same page as your spouse regarding money."

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4. The Essence of Building Wealth: Net Worth Over Income

A recurring theme throughout the episode is the emphasis on focusing on net worth rather than income alone. The millionaire callers unanimously highlight the importance of:

• Consistency: Regular saving and investing.
• Discipline: Living below one’s means and avoiding unnecessary debt.
• Strategic Planning: Setting clear financial goals and adhering to a structured plan.
• Investment: Prioritizing retirement accounts and diversified investments over high-stakes ventures.

Mark ([59:45]): "Focus on building your net worth on a weekly, monthly, yearly basis, not on your income."

Deborah ([78:22]): "Stay at home. We didn't have our first vacation until we were married for four years. Our dates were picnics in a local park..."

This shift in perspective—from chasing higher income to building and preserving net worth—ensures long-term financial stability and growth, regardless of income fluctuations.

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5. Expert Insights on Communication and Relationships

Introducing guest Jefferson Fisher, a trial lawyer and communication expert, Dave and Dr. John explore the critical role of effective communication in personal and professional relationships. Fisher emphasizes the importance of:

• Arguing Less, Talking More: Viewing arguments as opportunities to understand rather than win.
• Building Relationships: Prioritizing relationships over winning disputes to maintain harmony.
• Clarity and Directness: Encouraging transparent and honest conversations to prevent misunderstandings and resentment.

Jefferson Fisher ([22:34]): "Arguments are not something to win... you want to see arguments as something to unravel, find the knot in the conversation and start to unravel it."

These communication strategies not only foster healthier relationships but also create a supportive environment conducive to financial success and personal growth.

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6. Concluding Insights and Encouragement

Towards the end of the episode, Dave Ramsey reiterates the accessibility of achieving millionaire status through disciplined financial habits rather than luck or privilege.

Dave Ramsey ([82:21]): "Live on less than you make and save some money. That's it. It's slow and steady wins the race."

The episode closes with a powerful affirmation that the American dream is alive and attainable for those willing to adopt consistent, intentional financial practices.

Dave Ramsey ([83:30]): "You're not waiting on the White House to fix your life. What happens in your house is more important."

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Key Takeaways:

1. Financial Boundaries: Protect yourself and your dependents from toxic financial behaviors by setting clear boundaries and seeking external support when necessary.
2. Debt Management: Prioritize debts strategically, focusing on maintaining business operations while eliminating high-interest liabilities.
3. Focus on Net Worth: Building and tracking net worth through consistent saving, investing, and disciplined spending is more crucial than merely increasing income.
4. Effective Communication: Foster healthy relationships through clear, honest, and respectful communication to support financial and personal well-being.
5. Consistency is Key: Persistent and incremental financial actions lead to substantial long-term wealth accumulation.

This episode serves as a testament to the transformative impact of small, consistent financial decisions and underscores the importance of strategic planning and disciplined execution in achieving substantial financial milestones.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show. Where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, PhD in counseling, number one best selling author, host of the Dr. John DeLoney Show. And a couple other things he does around here. He's my co host today. So we're going to talk about you right in front of you, baby. Open phones at Triple 8-825-5225. Boise, Idaho is up and that's Britain. Brittany, is it? Brittany, is that right?

[Brittany]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi, Brittany. How can we help?

[Brittany]

Hi there, Dave. I was calling for some advice on how to handle a very financially abusive relationship regarding my mother and father.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Talk me through it.

[Brittany]

Okay. The basics are my parents are still together and I'm. I'm in my 30s. It wouldn't be a big deal for me if it was just my mom and dad, but the problem lies with my parents raising the next generation. They actually raised my sister's twin daughters who are now 10. And I am terrified that it's going to ruin their upbringing like it kind of did mine.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's going on? What are they doing?

[Brittany]

My mother is financially reckless. I mean, for years, I mean, she did prison time for stealing from her employer when I was 16. Once she got out, she took out false loans in my name, my father's name, false grants through the states, and she's just been financially reckless on credit cards in her name and my dad's name. And it's just left them in financial ruin.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. She's not only reckless, I mean, she's like a criminal.

[Brittany]

She's a toxic human being. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what does your dad and the problem?

[Brittany]

Well, once he finds out about certain things, he does have a verbal confrontation with her, but he rolls over and. And peace on himself, basically. And he won't stand up to her. And I think his spirit is just so beat that he won't stand up for himself at all. And I'm just left here as the auntie who's trying to make sure that her nieces don't go through the same situation that I went through as a child.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you experienced all of these things as a child because she was doing the exact same behavior and he was doing the same behavior. You talked about that twice. How do you think it affected you? Because you sound pretty adjusted to me. No, I'm not saying it didn't hurt. I'm not saying it wasn't a problem.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But lots of therapy there. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, was it Lots of therapy. Is that what did it?

[Brittany]

Therapy helped a lot, removing myself from the toxic situation. My mom kicked me out when I was 17. Ah, right after she got out of prison because there was a fight between us on, you know, the vehicle situation after she got out. So I, you know, I had to grow up real fast. I raised my younger sister for the last four years of her life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How does somebody with a criminal record get custody over 27 year olds?

[Brittany]

Because it was over 10 years after the fact. So after 10 years, their felony is erased or expunged from their record after seven, I believe.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so.

[Brittany]

And they were in the system, so they, they went through the process to do parenting classes and become foster parents and they got custody of the younger two.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So whenever I hear a conversation like this, I always want to ask the. What feels like an obvious question, but it's only obvious when you're looking from me outside. It's really hard to see on the inside. What of this can you do anything about? And the way you've outlined it, you can't do anything about your mom's behavior. She's been who she's been forever. You can't do anything about your dad's behavior. He's been who he is forever.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the state has awarded these children.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. So what can you actually control here? I guess you could sue for custody if you want to take the two girls. Or you can have this big, like that, this big, I call it like a William Wallace type speech to your dad. And maybe you'll get through to him, which I can tell you right now, you won't like. And so I'm wondering.

[Brittany]

No, I've already done that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There he goes. Right. So what are you looking for? Like, what are you hoping happens?

[Brittany]

Maybe some advice on how to proceed because I know my mom's a lost cause for me, given our history, that is too. We're not on speaking terms.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your dad is too.

[Brittany]

He's made it. That's, I guess, the tough pill.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It is. Behavior is a language. And he's told you for the last 20 years he's not interested. Your advice or wisdom, and that's really hard to hear. I know, and I'm saying it kind of callously and direct, but he doesn't care what you have to say.

[Brittany]

No, he doesn't. It never affects his actions. And I convinced him, yeah, two or three times to leave her. And he's always on board and he, you know, I have a. A big house with a basement that him and the girls can move in with me, because I have a 10 year old too. I mean, I have, I have four kids and we have plenty of space for them. And I'm like, dad, just get away. Just get away. Every time you do this, this just damages you. It damages your soul, it damages your spirit. It's affect girls and you're teaching them and conditioning them that this is okay behavior and it's not. And it took me years to figure that out myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brittany]

So I don't know if I should just wash my dad off and be like, daddy, I love you, you're my favorite person in the whole world. But I cannot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know that you wash him. I don't know that you wash him. I don't know you wash your hands of him. He's still your dad, but he is.

[Dave Ramsey]

My favorite human being trying to fix him.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You live in reality.

[Brittany]

Yeah. So I guess that's what I was asking for, is just maybe a secondary opinion on looking at this from the outside and telling me I'm doing everything I can the right way and there's no fixing them because they don't want to be fixed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's really the hardest things in adulthood is that other adults are allowed to misbehave. And you can't make them, not if they called here. I can hang up on them and move on to the next one, but I can't make them go on and do it. Right.

[Brittany]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wish they would, because I know what would happen if they did change. And I know that this can be fixed. I know that the power of God in their life, for instance, could intersect either your mom, dad, or both. And in a matter of months, I've seen people change their whole households. And then they seek out the therapy to finish the work and they do all the stuff they need to do. But, you know, my grandmother used to say those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still. And so that you're just, you know, you're just barking at a brick wall is what you're telling us. I mean, so I think you pray for them. And I think if you ever think of someone that might speak into their life that they might listen to, because it's not you, that you send that person over there. If there's an uncle or a cousin or someone that they admire or a pastor that they say they like, have them speak into it, because maybe they have a foothold, maybe they have a toehold of credibility. But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you might write, you might write Your father a letter and just call it my last. My last, my last letter. Right. And I'm still going to love you. I just need you to see in writing. You always have an open door at my house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And maybe when you start talking and start lecturing him, he shuts you off like he shuts off his wife. That's just his default setting. But maybe around the glow of, you know, the refrigerator at 11 o'clock at night when all the other lights are off in the house, he reads that letter and he exhales and says, I'm gonna go.

[Brittany]

I, I wish that would happen.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, I know. And have you, have you, are you married?

[Brittany]

Reach out to. I am married. I'm happily married.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So have you and your husband talked about taking in the two girls? Is that a possibility?

[Brittany]

You know, I was married before when they were born to my ex husband and having a new baby ourselves. He refused to let me take the twins in because they were drug addicted, they were in the nicu and he refused to let me take them in. But what I did is I raised them in the form of daycare until they went to kindergarten.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, but what about. Right, what about right now?

[Brittany]

Right now? No, they're in school.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, Would you, would you take them if they would let you?

[Brittany]

100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, make that, make that offer in the letter then.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. Yeah, maybe make that offer and say we would love to let them grow up around their cousins and take that burden from you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you guys deserve to be free in your retirement years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, we, that'd be an interesting thing to see happen. But yeah, I think you're right. You just gotta lay it out there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's heartbreaking, man. It's heartbreaking. Heartbreaking. We don't do grief well in this culture.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Garrett]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help?

[Garrett]

I've racked up about $156,000 in business debt, and I've kind of been contemplating bankruptcy, and I didn't know if maybe you thought I should or maybe had other advice or options.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. I'm sorry. It's scary, isn't it?

[Garrett]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you married?

[Garrett]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How old are you?

[Garrett]

25.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you owe the business debt on? What kind of debt is this? Credit cards or vendors?

[Garrett]

So about. So 30,500 is. Vendors, $55,000 is. I was dumb and took out a merchant cash advance, and then I owe my parents, like, $65,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Garrett]

And then another. Another vendor, 7250.

[Dave Ramsey]

7250.

[Garrett]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And what kind of business is this? Or was it.

[Garrett]

I sell cabinets and countertops.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so a merchant advance on what?

[Garrett]

Yes, so my, like, future revenue, basically I gave them my bank statements, and then they said, we'll give you this much, and it was like a daily payment. And last year in 2024, I had a very slow time, and it pretty much just took me for everything I had.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that one got you. It's a payday lender of your world. Yeah. The interest rate's also ridiculous, correct?

[Garrett]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so what method do they have access to your current checking account? Is that how they. They clean you out every so often?

[Garrett]

They were. I've since put, like, stop payments on them. And I'm actually. I was working with like a. Or am technically still working with a consolidation agency, but that. That cost is like twelve hundred dollars a week, which I can kind of do, but it. It's hard to manage that. And every time I miss a payment, they're threatening to cancel the program. And it's non refundable and it's still another $28,000 I have to pay into it before they'll negotiate with them.

[Dave Ramsey]

And yeah, I think you stopped that immediately too. You jumped from the frying pan into the fire, didn't you?

[Garrett]

Yeah, yeah, I panicked. And I did all that before I kind of talked to anyone about it. Now pretty much my whole family knows and I've been a little more open lately, so I've been getting like some more advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So if you didn't have this mess, did you do all this because you weren't making money?

[Garrett]

No, I was, I was doing pretty well and then I took a lot a pretty sizable loss on a job and I also got a little full of myself after like a really good four month stretch and I fell behind on my bookkeeping, which looking back, that was kind of the debt, that was like my detriment to it all.

[Dave Ramsey]

You did a really good job. In two sentences. Describ what happened? Because that's exactly what happened. I can smell it. You're. Yeah, you're really on top of that. That's very well done. You weren't doing your books. One job. You got, you got out too far over your skis on and they set you up for a fall and you were feeling invincible. Those three things together put you here. I believe you. That's well done. Congratulations. That's a. Most people aren't that self aware when they're in this much pain. Well done. Proud of you. We work with entrepreneurs and have for years. I've been bankrupt when I was your age, so I know exactly how it feels to be where you are. So the way we fix this is we take the things that are working and we apply them in a forced rank order of importance. Bankruptcy is not going to solve it because you can't bankrupt mom and dad. You can legally, but you're not going to. You're going to pay them.

[Garrett]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

So half of this almost is one thing and it's them. Okay.

[Garrett]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the rest of it is ninety thousand bucks worth of stuff. How quick can we make that? Now let's pretend that you were just operating properly. You weren't out over your skis, you weren't taking jobs that could take you down. You weren't feeling of your feeling and you weren't borrowing any money. What can you make in this business? What kind of profit in a year can you make if you just started fresh?

[Garrett]

So last year I did about $400,000 of revenue, right. And I have A. My margins are right around 31%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you can make a hundred. You can make 100 grand a year, and you have a $90,000 problem.

[Garrett]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because mom and dad aren't. Mom and dad aren't pressuring you.

[Garrett]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You want to pay them, but they're. They can be. They can be at the end of the list. And that's okay?

[Garrett]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so now here's. Here's an idea.

[Garrett]

Nice. As well.

[Dave Ramsey]

What vendors do you have to pay to keep supplies coming, to keep the business open? What dollar amount does that represent?

[Garrett]

Much.

[Dave Ramsey]

The 37,000.

[Garrett]

Not entirely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I didn't think so. Half of that? Yeah.

[Garrett]

About 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay. About 20,000. You need to get on the phone with them first, and we need to get on a program with them where we're going to clear them first, and in return, they're going to keep sending you supplies.

[Garrett]

COD Yeah, I have been. I've been paying them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It was a large amount of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, listen, I'm giving you a program. I'm not asking for the story now. I'm telling you what to do. Okay.

[Garrett]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get on the phone with them and set up a program to pay $37,500 plus your new material needs going forward out of your hundred. It's the first thing you do. The merch people tell them they're not getting paid, maybe ever, but they're certainly not getting paid right now. You're going to sit on the sidelines and we're going to settle up later. If you want to sue me, sue me, but I don't have any money. And if you sue me, I'm going to file bankruptcy and you're going to get nothing. So you need to just sit over there until I can get this thing cleaned up, and then I'm going to come pay you off. Okay. You have a conversation with them, but you give them no more money and no more access to your business. You go make 100 a year. 120 a year. You clean up your vendors first, and then you keep the cash flow running. You keep your books up to date, and then you call them. Then you save up 30,000 bucks and you call the merchant people that you owe 55 to, and you settle with them for pennies on the dollar. Then you go pay mom and dad the next year.

[Garrett]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're out of debt. I just got you out of debt in three years.

[Garrett]

Sounds. Sounds good to me.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's doable. What I just described is very doable. I've done it a thousand times. Now, the trick is you got to believe it. And you got to be tough enough to run off these people that have been scaring the crap out of you. They've been running your life emotionally. They live in your head rent free. Can you tell I've been there?

[Garrett]

Yes. Yes, for sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's no fun. And you feel like they're saying you're not a good guy, and you're a good guy that made a mistake. You're not an evil person. You didn't set up a business to go screw somebody.

[Garrett]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

You're just a young guy that made some mistakes. And now you got to go clean up your mistakes. You can file bankruptcy if you want, dude, but you're still going to have to pay your parents. And you did all of it over 90 grand that I just settled for somewhere around 50. And you shouldn't file bankruptcy when you have the ability to make 120 a year. Not morally, but I mean mechanically. Shouldn't file bankruptcy when you've got the ability to make 120 a year. And 50 grand cleans up your mess. Because you're going to pay the 37. You're going to pay the 37,000 worth of vendors because you got to keep them in your life, the other people. You're going to settle for 50 cents on the dollar. And then you're going to call mom and dad and pay them as quick as you can and never borrow money again from anyone, not even your parents. Have you learned your lesson?

[Garrett]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can do this, Garrett. You can really do this. I promise you can. Isn't that cool?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. It's the master class on when we get scared, man, we go to fight or flight. We stop thinking. And sometimes it just takes someone to sit down and say, hey, here's a plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the forest. Here's the trees. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't burn everything down.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm lost in the woods. We don't have to burn the forest.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just got to cut that two trees over there and then we can get out and then.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you got to keep walking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, just keep moving. Keep moving, keep moving. And the good news about this guy is he's really smart because he quickly self analyzed. Very unusual. Very unusual. This is the Ramsey show.

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[Dave Ramsey]

My co host today jumping out on the microphone to join us for a segment. My friend Jefferson Fisher and John's longtime friend, Jefferson Fisher. He's a trial lawyer, writer, speaker. His work's dedicated to helping people communicate during life's everyday arguments and conversations. If you've ever seen him on Instagram, on Facebook, his stuff is absolutely brilliant. This stuff on communication. The new book is the Next Conversation. Argue less, talk More. He's one of the speakers at the upcoming Entree Leadership Master series that will be in that's not Master City Leadership Summit. It's in May in Denver, May 18 through 21. He'll be hanging out with us there. We're excited to have him be exposed to all those entrepreneurs. There'll be about 3,000 of them there. And so welcome. Good to have you, my friend.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Thank you very much. I'm honored to be here. And of course, I Learned everything from Dr. DeLoney.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Continue. You can continue. I told him earlier on, Dave, when me and my faculty friends at the law school there would talk, we would all know, hey, we all need to be nice to Jefferson because we're probably going to be working for him someday. We all knew that Jefferson's been brilliant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Since everybody short version of the story is you were at the university where he was in law school, correct?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. He was already a student when I showed up. So I can't claim my last year there. That's right.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Your first year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

In an indirect way. He's a former student and that's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I claim that. Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Very cool. So how did you get, I guess, trial lawyer, you get drug into the idea of argue less, talk more. How do we have a conversation? How do we control an uncontrollable situation? How do you intersect these things and reset the conversation? I guess that's what drug you into it.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Studying to be a trial lawyer.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Well, it's really just truly a gift that my parents have prayed for. They've always prayed for wisdom and discernment over my life, and I learned to communicate well at an early age. So my mom can tell you I probably spoke too much, but being a trial lawyer certainly honed that skill of just dealing with conflict.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so we. There's a lot of conflict out there right now. There really is a lot of division, a lot of anger. I mentioned your stuff on social media. Anytime you put something there, you get trolled. Anytime you stick your head up and your site's massive, your footprint's huge on this. So you got people coming at you all the time. But in a society where people don't know how to communicate, how are you navigating that in teaching?

[Jefferson Fisher]

I teach that arguments are not something to win. You never want to win an argument because you start to lose the relationship. Instead, you want to see arguments as something to unravel, find the knot in the conversation and start to unravel it, rather than tugging your way and me tugging mine. And so when you go into the conversation with something to learn rather than something to prove, you're going to walk away with a much better communication.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, I'm going to use that tonight when I get home.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not going to try to win the argument.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, and. And Jefferson, I think that's important because we often are looking for feelings. Right. We're looking for some sort of emotion to let this relationship know it still has got spark to it. Right, Right. And so we end up fighting and fighting and fighting instead of asking the harder question. And you taught me this.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, what do we. What do we both want with this conversation?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah, absolutely. And at the same time, we are trying to replace connection with transaction. Like, you're meant to feel the warmth of a smile, not read it in an emoji. And so too often, we replace one for the other when all you have to do is just pick up the phone. And most people don't want to do that nowadays.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why not?

[Jefferson Fisher]

I think it's much easier to stay safe and not feel like you can be direct or aggressive or say what you need to say. You'd much rather kind of stand in the back. But if you really want to level up your life, you have to practice the skill of disappointing people. You have to practice the skill of being direct and saying what you need to say. You can still be kind, you can still show grace. But at the same time, to avoid clarity is to create confusion.

[Dave Ramsey]

We say around here to be on with our team being unclear with the team is to be unkind.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because in the name of being southern and nice, we're passive aggressive and we don't deal with it.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Bust his heart. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bless his heart.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, I want to give you a wild. This is just a story that's coming to my mind. Let's pretend you're a mid level professional and you have a very opinionated, outspoken CEO that runs your company.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who would that be?

[Jefferson Fisher]

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah. I'm just. Again, this is total. I'm just making this up on the fly here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are some tips you could give a guy like me on how to honor and respect the person that I work for but also challenge?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Well, you always make sure that you say what you need to say right up front. People believe that confidence is something that you need to say everything all at once. Confidence is very quiet. Insecurities are very loud. And so when you're always just holding it in or feeling like you know better and you only wish I could only just say people that are in positions of power or positions of superiority, they will appreciate the more transparent, honest conversation every time. Rather than you trying to be a wallflower and just be a yes man every time. So you have to be able to get out front of it and say what you need to say.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Put it up, put it out there.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah. Every time. Or else you're really doing yourself a disservice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. And I've noticed when we're teaching people leading financial peace university classes, for instance, that to hold someone accountable to a behavior that you're trying to get them to do for themselves for their own benefit. I always tell them you have to have your arm around their shoulder before you can smack them in the back of the head. I mean, there has to be relationship before you can hold someone accountable.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

I think that when you come at it from a position of making them feel good and close to you, but also being very firm, My dad would say this. I would come with him with something that I didn't like and I needed to vent. He'd say, well, that's fine, you don't have to like it, but you need to understand it. And it was this idea of you can connect with somebody and still be mad at them. I can still love you and still be upset. And so he would always say, well, you don't have to. That's fine, you don't have to like it. You just need to understand it. And that allowed me. I mean, I didn't like it. When I was young, I tell you, that didn't feel that great. But now I'm seeing the wisdom in it that he was allowing me the time to connect with him and truly be on the same page at the same time, say, oh, them's the breaks. This is what it's going to be. You don't have to like it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fine, we're doing it.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, I like it. But you didn't see why we're doing it.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Exactly. And that made the difference.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If you get the why, then it helps. I go back to what you were talking about when you first, when we first turned on the microphone, you said argument is not to be unraveled. And I think the first time as a hard driving person I ever realized that the best negotiation is a win win. And so trying to find out what the other side needs to win. And there's a similarity to that, I think the win win negotiating vs win lose negotiating to what you're talking about.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah. I like to teach that when you set out to win an argument, you begin to lose the relationship. So if you and I were in an argument and I as intelligent people do, we like to send that zinger, that thing that's really going to make the point hit home and zing and hurt them. Congrats, what have you done? You still have to live with this person. You probably still have to work with this person. You've now just won to be first up to apologize, most likely. I mean, you've now just had to, you've earned that awkward silence when you still have to pass them in the hallway. When you set out to win an argument, you only win contempt. You have to see things as something to learn rather than something to prove. Rather than pushing my point, I want to learn more about why you believe what you believe. If I have my glass full and you have your picture full, I got to let you pour it all out before I can ever pour anything of what I have into you. It's being curious before you start just, just pushing my way, my way, the highway.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But that also means that if I'm sitting with somebody who we are just not going to come together, I have to be confident enough to push my chair back and head out or I've got to be confident enough to say what I need to say and then going about my day and not not hope that I can still outsource my self worth to you. Right, you got it.

[Jefferson Fisher]

I mean, and that's why in the book I set up. This framework of how I teach communication is that when you say things, you're going to say it's first with control and you're going to say with confidence and you're going to say it to connect. And when you really have those three main pillars to communication, it's going to set you up much better for success. I like to say that most people don't know what they're saying until they're already talking. And so what this book allows them to do is have a GPS and point true north.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love it, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

The new book is the next conversation. Argue less, talk more. You can follow him on at Jefferson Fisher on Instagram and you should. You'll be entertained and educated simultaneously. Good to have you my friend. Thank you for having me at my welcome to Ramsey. Look forward to having you at Summit.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Before investing, carefully consider a fund's investment objective, risk, charges and expenses contained contained in the prospectus or summary Prospectus available at timothyplan.com Read carefully before investing. Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners Ltd and ETFs distributed by Forsyth Fund Services LLC. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Thanks for hanging out with us. If you're a business owner or you know someone who is running, you know that running a business is hard. Hard. We're gonna We've got a new book that we launched the pre sale on this week called Build a Business. You love Mastering the Five Stages of Business. It's out right now for 2999. You can get over $350 worth of free bonus items if you buy it. I haven't done a book in four or five years now, so this is my latest. Might be my last. I don't know. You never know. So if you want to share what we've learned over the last 30 years. Come and check it out. We're going to show you what we've Learned working with 10,000 small businesses and growing Ramsey. From a card table in my living room to where it is today. Ramseysolutions.com store or if you're on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. Our question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you're struggling with defaulted private student loans, why Refi offers a great solution to get you back on track. For a low fixed rate and more flexibility, go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r, e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, Today's question comes from Madison in Ohio. My husband and I have been happily married for six years. The only place where we struggle a bit. I love that a bit. Is on our finances. My heart is with my babies and raising them while his is focused on money. I'd rather him tell me what our monthly budget is so I can just follow it, but he wants me to be on his level of monetary ambition. We have no debt, save roughly a thousand bucks a month, and we have 25 grand in savings. If I'm not negatively impacting his goals. And why is it bad that money doesn't excite me like it does him? I feel like finances is his thing and raising our family is mine. I'll support anything he wants, but I don't want to lose myself in his ambition. I think they've got more than a bit of a struggle here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. This is a bigger challenge going on, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I, I, okay. I'm just, that's. It's the Ramsay show, so I'm just gonna say what I think.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm calling bs.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I am, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I think this is a bunch of crap. I think she just wants to be taken care of and buy anything she wants anytime. And he said no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This feels like in counseling, they call it the one down position. It's like when the, when somebody's mom goes, oh, that's okay. I don't want to eat there. But I'll just eat the napkins in the glove box. I'll be fine. That's that.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're not gonna buy me a dress. I'll just use the drapes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. I don't want to get my fingers dirty, my hands dirty with the money stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

The money stuff. I'm the mom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right? Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, brother, you're killing me here. Okay, now there is some truth to this. And there's a bunch of both to it too. But the truth is that you're the free spirit. You're not concerned about spreadsheets, and that's fine. He's the nerd and he's all into the details and that's fine. You can function in your strengths. But what you've done here is you spent the entire email making him the evil bad guy that's money hungry. And you're the sweet person that loves little children and bull crap.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. If you want to take care of your kids, you gotta have money to take care of your kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your kids like food and dry diapers and college degrees and whatever. So you gotta do both. So being a grown up mom involves being an adult woman. That is, raising children involves having enough say and enough involvement in the budget and in where our money is going that I get a vote and I, and I'm in agreement and we're aligned on where we're going. That does not make you money hungry. It does not. And the fact that he has a gift with detail doesn't make him money hungry and doesn't mean he hates children. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And actually I, I guess where I can feel my heart rate getting up a little bit, getting a little frustrated is the number of calls I get from wives saying, I wish my husband would just include me, me. And I have somebody here. And now he's not, he's, he's speaking spreadsheet, which if he was here, I'd bonk him on the head and say, bro, lead with your heart first and do spreadsheet second. But this is somebody that sounds like they're trying to connect and trying to bring mom in, bring his wife in on the finances and the money. And here's where we're headed, here's what we're gonna buy. And she's kind of beating him up for it. And I, I kind of. I mean, based on this little paragraph here, I honor the fact that he's trying to connect with you. Even though you keep saying, I don't want anything with the money part, I just want to do the mom part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I don't want anything to do with evil money. I just want to be the sweet mom. And that just, that really drips off of here and it's insincere. You want something to do with evil money, the rent in being paid if the light gets cut off and the water gets cut off. Believe me, my wife was there when she had little babies and she was concerned about that. So anyway, so I. I would say.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can we get to the. The root of this? I don't like him. He annoys me. I don't like having conversations with my husband. Let's get to the truth here, or I'm really kind of spoiled, and I don't like to deal with some of this stuff. We need to get to the root of these things, because this is the way some people just operate in the world. And it ends up in ash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It ends up. And then he's gonna get painted as the bad guy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he already is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then he didn't know his wife didn't like him. I don't like you. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So he could. He could take the thing. We could give him some help. The help we would give him is, like you said, lead with your heart and say.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what does that mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

What I believe is, I believe you have something to add to this conversation, honey. And so your vote counts. I want your vote in this. It doesn't mean you're overwhelmed with money. Doesn't mean I'm overwhelmed with money. But we're two adults trying to make our way through this world, and it involves money or the dreams.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You talk about these babies that you just want to be yours. You said, I want them to drive this kind of car, go this kind of college. Well, that. That takes us planning right now for that to happen down the road.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's talk about what we're not going to do so that we can do it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. Let's dream about it together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's make that decision together. You're way too smart to be a kept woman, and he needs to lead with that rather than we're going to save a thousand dollars a month. And here's a spreadsheet that she probably is doing a little bit of that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course he is. Yeah. And the other side of it is, hey, these are. These are my kids, too. I want to be a dad. Yeah, you don't get to, like, just do the kids. And I do the math. Like, I want to. I want to be involved with the kids. And if he's not Madison, then sit down and say, your kids need a dad more than they need a spreadsheet right now. They need you to talk to them, hang out with them. Go do whatever dad, you know, dads do in this house. But so ultimately, this first line, we're have been happily married. I think things are not as great as they seem. Let's be honest with each other and go from there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah, we're married.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And sometimes it's happy. All right. Kale is in Edmonton, Canada. Hi, Kale. How are you?

[Garrett]

Hey, Good, Dave. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Garrett]

It's an absolute pleasure to even speak to you. To be honest, I'm shaking a bit and calling in lots. Biggest thing for me, love the book. Red. Baby steps. I have a small business, and I'm really torn between personal debt, business savings, and what to do. Like, it's. There's no perfect plot for everybody. And, you know, worried about retirement. I got a young, small family. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. Well, you, you know, in the business, you need to set aside a percentage to grow your retained earnings in the business. A percentage of your profit each month?

[Garrett]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Beyond that, you bring. And you need to set aside the money to do the next thing. If you're going to be buying a piece of equipment, you set aside the money to do that. Beyond that, you need to take the money home and attack the debt.

[Garrett]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you need to give every dollar a name in the business. The business, okay, this much is going to retain earnings. And I got to set aside $10,000 over the next 12 months to buy this piece of equipment, or I'm making up something there, but I'm saying that's 800 bucks a month. So I got to set. I gotta set aside 800 bucks a month to buy a piece of equipment, and that's $10,000 in 12 months. And then everything else is coming home, and I'm gonna work on the budget with it. Everything else is coming home, and we're gonna attack the debt with it. So there is a perfect plan. It's just a detailed system. And then if you're not saving for a piece of equipment, that's $800 more you're bringing home.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Would you pay yourself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your mic's off.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Would you pay yourself a quote, unquote, higher salary if you have personal debt and a small business? It's kind of crushing right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not a salary. I mean, I just take everything home that the business didn't need.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's what I mean.

[Dave Ramsey]

All of it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just bring all of it home, whether it's for salary, whether it's bonuses, whatever you want, whatever it is, whatever. Dump it all takes everything out of the business, other than what I'm setting aside for retained earnings, and other than what I'm setting aside for this marketing program or this piece of equipment. And that's line item in the budget of the business. But then the profit above, below, that all comes home. Yeah, it's not a vague thing. When you make it a vague thing is when it feels like, oh my, things different. Your thing's not different. Write it down. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, I'm Jade Warshaw and I want to talk to you for a quick second about student loan refinancing. If your payment and your interest rate are burying you and you feel like you can't dig out, refinancing your student loan debt might make sense. That's because a lower rate could free up more money in your budget and a shorter term could help you pay down your debt faster. So reach out to the student loan refinancing experts today@l Laurelroad.com Ramsey There you'll find helpful resources like a student loan rate table, a refinancing calculator and other tools. Plus, you can get an initial rate in just a few minutes. Laurel Road offers low competitive rates starting under 5%. And you can get your interest rate even lower if you sign up for autopay. But if your situation is more complex, sign up for a free 30 minute consultation with one of their student loan refinancing experts to get your tough questions answered. Listen, not everybody should refinance their student loan, so make sure you run the numbers. But for some people, it is the right move. Learn more@l Laurelroad.com Ramsey to find out more about their student loan refinancing. That's LaurelRoad.com Laurel Road is a brand of KeyBank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. This is a baby step Start Millionaires theme hour. If you've never been with us when we did One of these, Dr. John DeLoney and I are going to take calls from real millionaires regardless of how they became a millionaire. Because I have found millionaires all over America for the past 30 years and I found a whole bunch of them in the last decade that I helped create, showing people what to do and they went and did the stuff we teach. That would be the baby steps. So whether you follow the baby steps, whether you won the lottery or whether you got an inheritance, however you became a millionaire, we want to hear your story. But that's all we're going to talk to today is real millionaires, not people on Instagram with an opinion. Because my pastor used to say a man with an experience is not at the Mercy of a man with an opinion. So we're going to really talk to real millionaires now. Let's help you with that. What is a millionaire? Because some people are confused about this. It is not a million dollar a year income. It's a million dollar net worth. When people say net worth millionaire, that's redundant. That's like saying, you know, black, black, white, white, whatever. I mean, it's redundant. It's net. All millionaires are net worth millionaires. It's the only type of millionaire there is. It's an accounting function. What you own, your assets minus what you owe, your liabilities is your net worth. Your house is included. Anything you own that is of value is included. Now, some of it are higher quality items than others in terms of financial instruments. Doesn't matter. You don't have to be a cash millionaire. You don't have to be a real estate millionaire. Just what you own minus what you owe. When that equals $1 million, you are by definition of millionaire. Well, it's not enough. I'm not asking that question. We're just asking, do you have a net worth of a million dollars? Well, no one should have that. Well, that's a different discussion. Well, you can't make it on that. That's a different discussion. That doesn't, you know, these don't convolute this. This is simple. Do you have a million dollar net worth? If you do, you're one of about 26 million Americans. And the rest of them are saying, I'd like to build a level of wealth heading in that direction so that I can be stable, sustainable, have a great life, change my family tree and so on. Is that rich anymore? Well, in 1920 it was rich. In 2020, 2025, it's not that rich, but it's richer than most people. So shut up. They got there. So we're going to talk to real millionaires today and ask them how they did it so that you, if you're not one, can learn something from the ones that actually did it and you can head that direction. Nicole and Dan are in Stamford, Connecticut. Hey guys, what's your net worth?

[Nicole]

Hey, Dave. We have a net worth of about $6.3 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Break that down a little bit by category. How much in real estate and retirement and so on.

[Nicole]

Sure. So we have about $100,000 in cash, which includes our emergency fund. We have retirement funds that are worth about 2.8 million. We have mutual funds, which includes a college fund for our son and a small charitable trust. That we recently started. That's worth about 500,000. We have paid for real estate, including rental Property, worth about 2.2, 2.3, depending on how you measure it. We have some passive business investments worth about 500,000, and then other assets, a couple of cars, and some collections and things that make up the rest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. How old are you guys?

[Nicole]

Well, I'm 54.

[Garrett]

And I'm 42.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. Very cool. How much of this 6.3 did you inherit?

[Nicole]

We inherited about $70,000 from my parents when they passed away about four or five years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you were already millionaires?

[Nicole]

Yes, we were.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And what's your best year? Working income, household, and your worst year?

[Nicole]

So our best year, we were a little north of a million dollars. Our worst year is probably right now. Neither one of us is working at the moment. Dan was diagnosed with cancer a few months ago, so we decided that we had the ability to step back and focus on that and focus on each other. So we did. But I'd say, you know, our entry level. You know, my entry level was probably around 30,000 a year, and Dan's was about 40.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Wow. Okay. So about 70 was your startup?

[Nicole]

About 70 was where we started.

[Dave Ramsey]

What were your careers? What did y'all do?

[Nicole]

I started as an accountant and then became a consultant, and ultimately, you know, just an executive. Dan, you want to talk about your background?

[Garrett]

Yeah, I started off in the military, and then I got out. I went into manufacturing and recently left as an executive with manufacturing firm, handling supply chain.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay. All right. What do you drive right now? What kind of cars you drive?

[Garrett]

We always buy used cars. I have an F150, and Nicole has a Honda accord.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How old your Honda Accord, Nicole?

[Nicole]

It's a 2022.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how old's your F150, Dan?

[Garrett]

2020.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's not too bad. Sometimes I have to tell millionaires to go buy a car because their car sucks so bad. But y'all. Y'all did okay. You got. You got through. I can see that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, Nicole and Dan, when we talk to people who are concerned about their net worth and trying to build, you know, get to millionaire status, sometimes there's a. There's a negative connotation. Like, for what? Talk to the person who is sitting there listening to this, going, yeah, yeah, yeah. But so what? Talk to them about the freedom you have when your husband comes home and says, oh, my gosh, I just got this diagnosis. And y'all can exhale and say, Then we're going to take some time off and just be together.

[Nicole]

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, we've been big fans of the Ramsey show, and Dan went through financial peace when he was in the military. But we've only decided to call in now for that reason because we did want to share that. I mean, you know, when we paid off our house a few years ago, that felt amazing. And the freedom that we had then to really, you know, do some things that were a little more risky so that we could create even more wealth at that point was incredible. But it's kind of nothing compared to the freedom to say, okay, we know exactly where our money is. We know exactly what we need to have coming in every month to be able to sustain ourselves, and we don't have a bunch of debt hanging over our heads and big payments on things. We can actually, we can choose to spend this time together and to fight this battle together. It wasn't even a second thought. We just made that decision and moved forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you need 300 grand to try an alternative treatment in XYZ City, you load up a plane and you go write a check and you go do it. Right.

[Nicole]

Yeah. 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you don't even think about it.

[Nicole]

Incredible.

[Dave Ramsey]

You didn't even think about it?

[Nicole]

No, didn't even think about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That, to me, is the true definition of freedom, is we can go do the next right thing and we don't have to think about it. Yeah, it's pretty.

[Nicole]

I'm sure Dan has some other thoughts about the freedom and the. And the security.

[Garrett]

Well, it's. It's putting. It's putting the plan that you've been building and what you've been working on through these steps and everything through over the. The years in case something happens. Right. Everybody's healthy until you're not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Garrett]

And. And to be able to, you know, take a step back and have the freedom and just really, literally the peace of mind to know that I'm going to focus on my health and I'm going to. I'm going to go back to work eventually. I'm going to get there. But right now, for the next four to six months, I'm going to focus on this.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're going to beat this thing.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go beat it.

[Garrett]

And I don't have to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Garrett]

And I don't have to worry about, you know, the electric bill or the mortgage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Amazing, Amazing, amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, we'll be praying for you, brother. Thanks for sharing your story, you two. Fabulous. It's a baby Steps Millionaires Theme hour People tell me about their experiences with big banks all the time. Bad service fees that nickel and dime them to death and predatory lending that tries to catch them in never ending cycles of debt. So if you're ready for a bank that puts people over profits, check out Fair Winds Credit Union. I recommend Fairwinds because they share our Ramsey values of helping people get out of debt and live generously. If you go to fairwinds.org Ramsey you'll see the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans. This account bundle is designed to help you take control of your finances and stay out of debt. And Fairwinds also has a great mobile app that's safe and secure so you can manage your transactions with peace of mind. Fairwinds has been helping people avoid big bank traps for 75 years. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. It's easy to join no matter where you live. That's F a I R W I n d s.org Ramsey running a business is freaking hard. It's easy to get caught up in the daily challenges and fears that keep you stuck. That's why I want you to reserve your copy of our new book Build a business you Love where we share the proven system that helped us break through those challenges and build Ramsey solutions. From a card table in my living room to a $250 million company in the process. When you pre order today you're going to get more than $350 in bonuses for free, including an enhanced audiobook experience, early access to the Build a business you love ebook, and instant access to our hiring playbook so you can start transforming your business right now. Build a business you love. The essential guide for every business owner like you that wants to grow yourself, lead your team and scale your business. To reserve your copy, go to ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality is my co host. It's a baby Steps Millionaires theme hour which means we're talking to real millionaires, not your broke brother in law with an opinion. Where do millionaires really come from? Well we did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America. We studied 10,167 of them and they weren't all Ramsey millionaires. There were people, a lot of them, who didn't even know who we were. And we did a detailed airtight research methodology meaning the facts that we got out of this are what are known as data, not opinions so if you disagree with the conclusions of this study, you're what's known as wrong. All of that white paper from that research and the detail and the conclusions are in the Baby Steps Millionaires book that I did. My last best seller, number one best seller. And if you want to pick it up and learn more about what we're talking about this hour, it's very important. One of the things we found, for instance, was that a lot of Americans, because of stupid stuff on YouTube and TikTok, believe that millionaires all inherit their money. And what we found was almost none. Do three types, three things go on. Number one, 79% of millionaires inherited zero. Number two, 5% inherited a small amount, like $5,000. They did actually get an inheritance, but it's not enough mathematically to make you a millionaire unless you live to be 200 years old. Number three, like our last caller, they got a good amount of money, in their case, 70,000. But sometimes we heard 200,000 or 300,000 inheritance after they were already millionaires. So by definition 79 plus 5 plus 5% is 89% did not become millionaires because of inherited money. That's nine out of 10. Now what does that mean? Well, number one, it means the anarchist, leftist, crazy communist people saying all rich people inherit their money is not. They're factually incorrect. They have an agenda of something else. Apparently, if they know what the truth is. Number two, it should give anyone out there that's not a millionaire great hope. Because nine out of ten didn't become millionaires because of inherited money. They became millionaires because of habits and processes and things that they did or dumb luck, they hit the lottery or something like that. But anywhere in there and that can be you. But it wasn't the proverbial rich uncle died and left me a bunch of money or mom and dad died and left me a bunch of money. That's not where it came from. Statistically, that's a data based fact. Rob is with us in North Carolina. Rob, what's your net worth?

[Garrett]

Hi, Dave. Hi, Dr. John. Net worth is just over 1.1 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. And give me a little breakdown by category. Real estate, mutual funds, retirement, whatever.

[Garrett]

So 475 in retirement, 325 in real estate, 100k in checking, savings, emergency funds, 70 in mutual funds, 70 in paid for vehicles, and about 110 in business interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. And how old are you?

[Garrett]

I am 37 and my wife is 31.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Okay, cool. And how much of this 1.1 million. Did you inherit?

[Garrett]

We inherited zero.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And your best year? Working income and your worst year working income.

[Garrett]

Best year was last year. 275 for the household. And worst year would be when we both started out of college. We were about 45 each, so 90 and I'd say average was about 160.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your career?

[Garrett]

I am in construction engineering and my wife is in. She's a manufacturer's rep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Garrett]

For a steel company.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your. Do you have a four year degree?

[Garrett]

I do civil and construction engineering technology.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, very good. What was your GPA?

[Garrett]

3.2.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Atta boy. That means you had fun. Good for you.

[Garrett]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. You. Very cool. So what's the most expensive pair of jeans you ever bought?

[Garrett]

Oh, I'd say, I'd say $80. 60 to $80. Just recently too. Still have them. I'm a fan of the Costco pants though.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So a picture of you just came up. How much do you spend on grooming that amazing mustache you have?

[Garrett]

Oh, that, that thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

That thing's long gone.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, it's gone. Okay.

[Garrett]

That was my dad's stash.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Excellent. Good.

[Garrett]

That was, that was a welcome little one into the world.

[Dave Ramsey]

Goes with the dude. Yeah, Yeah, I love it. Very fun. All right. What do you guys drive?

[Garrett]

Well, my wife drives a 2023 Palisade and I drive a 2020 Ram 1500.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. It's good. Cars. Good. Okay. It's about right. About right. Are you guys spend more time on TV or on books?

[Garrett]

Oh, I would say. I would say more on tv, unfortunately. But we do do a lot of driving and trips together. And when we do drive, we listen to books on. On audio.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay, cool. Very cool. Do you think someone that's coming out of college with a civil engineering degree today can still do this?

[Garrett]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

What should they do?

[Garrett]

Well, I'd say surround yourself with the right people and make sure you're on the same page as your spouse regarding money. Because I'm telling you right now, life gets real easy when you guys don't fight about money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Good insight.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That may be the. That may be the most profound moment of the show today.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a mic drop right there. Just a one liner and it's just real things there. All right there. Life's pretty good when you don't fight about money. Yeah, nothing left to fight about. Much. Well done, Rob. Congratulations, hero. Very proud of you. Mark is in Nashville. Mark, what's your net worth?

[Garrett]

My net worth is 2.1 million. And then I have a business that's probably worth 400,000. So 2.1, I guess.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, give me a little breakdown by category. Retirement, real estate, whatever.

[Garrett]

Yep, real estate. 1.7 million. Retirement 305,000. Cash 100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, very good, very good. How much, how old are you?

[Garrett]

I am 59.

[Dave Ramsey]

59. Good. And how much of this 2 million 100 did you inherit it?

[Garrett]

Zero.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Garrett]

I inherited a Bible. A book?

[Dave Ramsey]

A bible and a book. I like it. And served you well. I like it. So the. What was your best year working income and your worst year working income?

[Garrett]

Best year working income would be about 225,000. Worst year was probably 20,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. What's your career?

[Garrett]

I, I now own a training company, but for years I actually worked as a safety professional in manufacturing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Training in manufacturing. Okay. You got a four year degree?

[Garrett]

I do have an undergraduate degree and an mba.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Very cool, very cool. Do you think people can still do this today?

[Garrett]

I know they can. Just have to want to.

[Dave Ramsey]

What would your suggestion be to them? What would they need to do?

[Garrett]

You know what helped me was following my very strategic around following net worth, not income. So it's just you win the month or the day or the year. And so when I started doing that, that was probably the biggest, you know, that's what I would tell people.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, that's very true. Because you're concentrating on the right things then because you can burn through income. And the old, the old saying, it doesn't matter how much you make it, it matters how much you keep.

[Garrett]

Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that, that's the essence of what you're saying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So walk me through that. I don't think I was smart enough to catch that just then.

[Dave Ramsey]

Concentrate on building your net worth, not building your income.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so how big is my net worth? Is a lot more important question than how big is my income?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because you can absorb your, I mean you can balloon to fill up your income with cars and clothes and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Vacations and nonsense. Good. That's fantastic. I love that quote. Say that again one more time. Mark.

[Garrett]

Yeah. Focus on your net worth on a, on a weekly, monthly, yearly basis, not on your income.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think that's, that's something that Congress needs to hear. I think that's something that the average person just driving down the road needs to hear.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's very wise because it's long term thinking long term. Because the reason for your income for most people is not consumption, although they Consume should be to build a legacy to, you know, to change your family tree, to retire with dignity. All those things are based on net worth, not based on your income. So it's a very. It's the exact correct thing to aim at. We're actually doing some work behind the scenes with the software engineers right now to build a net worth calculator and be able to track it as a part of the EveryDollar app continually because that's the exact thing you should be doing. Mark's exactly right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Excellent, brother.

[Dave Ramsey]

I agree with you. Well done, hero. Proud of you, man. Very cool. This is the Baby Steps Millionaires theme hour. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

[Rachel Cruze]

You know how when you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, it feels weird at first? Well, I'm here to tell you that is okay. I want you to be weird if that means you're being intentional, including how you budget. And one way to be intentional about how you spend your health care dollars is with Christian healthcare ministries. CHM isn't health insurance. They're a biblically based alternative. CHM is a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families take care of health care costs costs without sacrificing their freedom. As a CHM member, you'll share 100% of your eligible healthcare costs with a dedicated Christian community. And in return, your monthly contribution goes towards other members medical costs. So no matter where you are in your financial journey, CHM can help you reach your money goals and still get the care you need. Plus, programs start as low as $98 a month. So go to chministries.orgbudget to find out more. That's chministries.orgbudget. hey guys, Rachel Cruze here. All right, I'm about to say what everyone already knows, but budgeting is a good thing to do now actually starting well, that's where people freeze up. And you guys, it doesn't have to be that way. With the EveryDollar budgeting app, getting started is super easy and so is sticking to it. You can set up your first budget in less time than it takes to go through the Chick Fil a drive thru. It's fast. And the best part, with unlimited budget categories, you can customize it to fit your life. Grocery runs, coffee runs, or planning your next family trip. Whatever you have going on. Everydollar helps you see exactly what's happening with your money. You'll know what's coming in, what's going out, and what's left over. For some fun because let's be real, you need some fun in your budget. Everydollar keeps budgeting simple and stress free, just the way you want it. So go download the app for free and get started today. Again, go download everydollar. Today.

[Dave Ramsey]

It'S a baby steps millionaires theme hour. We're talking to real millionaires, not broke people with an opinion. We've painted the glamorous as the millionaire, and statistically that's not true. You don't have to be a rock star, country music star, actor in Hollywood, or sports professional to be a millionaire. As a matter of fact, less than 1.6%, less than 2% of America's millionaires are people of the, you know, famous people like that. They're not. They're just not. So, I mean, there are those that are out there and some of them are billionaires that, you know. But the vast. But the truth is you don't have to be able to play in the NBA. Otherwise I'd be screwed. Right. Or professional golf. I'd for sure be screwed. Or be a professional actor. I'm not pretty enough. I got a face for radio or whatever. To be a millionaire. It turns out that it's the tortoise beats the hare every time. It's slow and steady wins the race. And these are the people that we meet all the time. Now, if you got money some other way, I still want to talk to you because you're representative of what millionaires are. And we don't set these calls up. I mean, we do people call in and we arrange them to be on the air during this hour, but we don't tell them what to say. And we don't only take certain types of millionaires. We put the real people on that really listen to the show that really have a net worth of a million dollars or more. Michael is one of them in St. Louis. Michael, what's your net worth?

[Garrett]

About 1.7 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Give me a little breakdown by category.

[Garrett]

So probably about 600,000 in stocks and mutual funds, about another 600,000 in IRAs and 401ks. Then I got about 400,000 in equity on my home. And then I've got a vacation home with about another 152, 200,000 in equity on that. And then I've got probably 70 grand sitting in savings account in cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. How old are you?

[Garrett]

53.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. What's your best? Oh, how much of this did you inherit?

[Garrett]

None.

[Dave Ramsey]

Zero. Okay. And what's your best year? Working income? Worst year? Working income?

[Garrett]

My best year working income is 230 now. My worst year was when I started. Very, very long time ago. About 18,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what I started at. That's cool. Okay. And. What. And I'm older than you. What. What has been your career?

[Garrett]

I'm in finance. I'm a CFO right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And a degree in finance or accounting or what?

[Garrett]

Actually, I've got an undergrad in psychology, but a master's in finance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. MBA with specialization, finance. Okay. And your GPA on the MBA?

[Garrett]

3.7.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay. Because that's the other thing people believe. The other myth that people believe is that all millionaires have, like, a 4.2, that they're all geniuses or something. And most of us are. Most of us. Our GPAs were in the threes. Mine's actually a 297. I'm still pissed about that 3/100 of a point, too, but I think beer was involved. But the. All right, so what do you drive?

[Garrett]

I just bought. So the first time in my life, I paid cash for a car. I just bought it two weeks ago. It's a Toyota Land Cruiser.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. And what's your wife drive?

[Garrett]

She drives a Lincoln Corsair.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old?

[Garrett]

The car or the wife?

[Dave Ramsey]

The car.

[Garrett]

It's a 21.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the right answer for your wife, too, brother.

[Dave Ramsey]

You could keep both of them. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Stay at 21.

[Garrett]

No, I always tell. My wife is 39, and she's been 39 for 20 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's the 20th anniversary of your 39th birthday. I love it. Okay, good, good. Mine just had that. Yeah. All right, so can this still be done? Can someone still become a millionaire by age 53?

[Garrett]

Oh, yeah. It's. It's. It's just about work, Dave. I mean, it's hard work. It's putting money away. It's. It's not. You know, my wife and I talked about this a couple years ago. You know, we watched our friends in our early 20s, you know, go into debt, going on vacation and buying cars. And we didn't do that. Right. We stayed at home. We didn't have our first vacation until we were married for four years. And it was a road trip to Colorado. So, you know, we were. Our dates were picnics in a local park that had a concert during the summer on the weekends, so we can go out to dinner. We didn't do that stuff. We socked our money away. And the other thing I will tell you is we also didn't we also have conversations about everything, right? Like, she knows our investments. I'm not hiding anything from her. We don't make any big decisions without talking. Even when I want to change jobs or move on, I don't do it unless I have her blessing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How do you handle the frustration? Because there's a sense that once I become a quote unquote millionaire and you're almost 2x, that I don't have to worry about stuff. I buy whatever car I want. I can live where I want. You know, there's kind of that. That leap between, oh, I'm actually a net worth. Like my net worth is a million dollars or more.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I still have to think about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I still got to think about it.

[Garrett]

Oh, yeah, you never. I think at that point you're going to lose your million pretty quick. So, I mean, my opinion. I mean, I agonized about this car for four months before I bought it and never. I've never bought a new car. I take that back. I bought one new car early on and my father let me have. He was in the car business and made it very clear that buying a new car was not smart. So this was kind of a little thing for me. And. And you know, even then, if he were still alive, I'm sure I'd be getting a what for. For buying a new car.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, you got a Land Cruiser. That's a beautiful ride, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's a great car. It's a great car. Way to go, hero. Thank you for sharing your story. We appreciate you. All right, Amos is in Memphis. What's your net worth, Amos?

[Garrett]

Right at 1 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay, and a little breakdown on the categories, please.

[Garrett]

$400,000 in IRA, $100,000 in cash, $350,000 in property, and $150,000 in savings bonds.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got it. Okay, cool. How old are you? 6262 or 5? 2626 2. Okay. And how much of this did you inherit?

[Garrett]

None of it, really. Well, I guess the hundred thousand cash is kind of. My parents put me in their trust and they placed everything in my name 25 years ago. And my mom. And mom is now moved in with me and everything's. All the accounts are now merged, so it's all mine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did that money cause you to be a millionaire or you were already a millionaire when you got that money?

[Garrett]

That kind of put me over the top. I was already on path and on my project. I'm going to be probably at two or three here very shortly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. Okay, good, good. And what's your best year? Working income. And your worst year?

[Garrett]

Best year was this last one. But that counts severance because I was laid off after 19 years and that was 129. My lowest was probably when I was making $9 an hour driving a truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So it sounds like the majority of your life you've made under 100k.

[Garrett]

Yeah, under 50 for most of it was just the last 19 years. When I started this last job, I had nothing. And I've been trying to get into this company for a while. And when I got in there, I got into their 401k and put in six matching. And then they had an option. I can increase the percent 1% every year. And so I set that. So every year I'm putting in more in the 401k. Yeah, they had a pension plan and I had that and they had stock purchase. And I got in that because the jump from my last job to that was almost 20 grand. And we were kind of setting our budget, so I just put all the extra money towards retirement because I didn't have it started and so.

[Dave Ramsey]

So in 19 years you turned the whole thing around. Yeah.

[Garrett]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was. What was your career? What'd you do for a living?

[Garrett]

Dba. I got an it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. Very good.

[Garrett]

I went from. Yeah, I went from driving trucks to driving a computer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got it. Okay. Works for me. Can people still do this today?

[Garrett]

Yeah, it's. I like the fact that I. I don't know if I found anything new, but if you are getting like normal cost of living increases is something that I learned when I was a kid is like pay yourself first. And so if I get a 3% raise, I always put a 1% towards. Towards retirement. And then you don't even notice it. You just forget about it. And it just snow like. Like you put it snowballs.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is a good one. Yeah. You know, the good kind of snowball compound interest gets in your favor. And here we go. And slow and steady. Slow and steady. And John, one of the things we have learned is people set it and forget it. They what he said there. You create a system where you don't have to think about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. Reduce the friction.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is not some kind of like strong muscular disc. And it's just like it comes out of my check and I don't think about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it stays on autopilot. And that keeps me doing it. This is a baby steps millionaires theme hour.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, guys. Dr. John DeLoney here. Finding time to intentionally connect with your spouse can be hard. That's why I'm excited to announce that Money in Marriage Getaway is back. Hang out with me and Rachel Cruz November 6th through 8th in Nashville, Tennessee. You'll learn practical tools to better communicate, deepen your intimacy and more. Plus, we'll dig into your questions with live Q&As. Early bird tickets start at $749, but hurry. Prices are going up soon and this will sell out. Get [e-mail] events.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you for joining us, America. This is the Ramsey Show. It's a Baby Steps Millionaires theme hour. John and I are going on the road here in a couple of months. We're going to be in six different cities doing the money and relationships tour. We're going to be talking about raising money, smart kids, how to fight a fair fight in marriage, finding contentment. We're going to talk, of course about wealth building, of course about anything having to do with relationships. And here's what's weird. It's unfiltered, unscripted, and packed with wisdom. What we're going to do is we're going to put up a bunch of topics for the audience when we first get in the arena or in the theater and you guys are going to text in and tell us which ones we're going to talk about. So you're going to build the event that night when you get there. And that's going to be weird and fun. We're kind of excited about it. We're going to be in Louisville, Kentucky, April 21 is the first one. Durham, North Carolina, April 23, Atlanta, Georgia, April 25. Then a couple weeks later, we're going to Phoenix on May 5, Fort Worth, May 7, and Kansas City on May 9. You can get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com tour or you can click on the link in the show notes and it'll get you set right up. John, this is gonna be fun. It's different.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's gonna be wheels off. I, I was talking to Rachel. We did the money marriage event this last weekend. And I said I don't get nervous very often for these kind of things. I'm excited, nervous for this one because it's gonna be us two on stage letting it rip, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're both gonna be out there and we just gotta, you know, it's like, it's like contemporary. I mean, I took a, I was in like a speech thing when I was in contemporary contemporaneous speaking. I can't even say it, but you know that it would, like, draw a subject out of a card, a deck of cards, and then you had to let it rip.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You had to go. And that's kind of what we're going to be doing. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But people don't get to see us cutting up and having a good time and looking at each other.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'll be answering your questions, in a sense. And you know, we got a whole interactive format built. It's going to be very fun. It's something different.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And every show is so cookie cutter now, right? And like it's just stamp and stamp and stamp. And what I love about this one is every, every city is going to get a new show and the new events. It's gonna be fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

And in some cases that's gonna be good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. That's right. I can't wait.

[Dave Ramsey]

So be sure. Hey, it's in April and May, six cities. Check it [e-mail] there's still some tickets left and we'd love to have you come visit with us. We're looking forward to meeting you when we're out on the road. Deborah is our next millionaire up in Atlanta. Deborah, what's your net worth?

[Deborah]

My net worth is 1,400,000. 1.5 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. And a little breakdown by category.

[Deborah]

500,000 Roth IRA, 5,000 mutual fund stocks, 300 in my house and 1 to 200 in money market savings. It's my emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. How old are you?

[Deborah]

67.

[Dave Ramsey]

67. And how much of this did you inherit?

[Deborah]

About 100,000. A little bit from grandparents and a little bit from my parents.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long ago?

[Deborah]

Well, grandparents, 30 some years ago. And my parents, 2015 to 20 years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

So a real part of you being a millionaire is inherited money then?

[Deborah]

No, no, it isn't. It was only 100,000 and the rest I earned myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right, but if you had invested that, it would have been a big part of this, right?

[Deborah]

Oh, yes. But that was invested. That went into my investments. I never touched.

[Dave Ramsey]

I see. Okay, good. What was your career?

[Deborah]

I was an administrative assistant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what was your income? Best year and worst year?

[Deborah]

Worst year was probably when I started. Maybe I made $11,000 a year. And when I retired last June, 42,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

42. So you never made over 42,000?

[Deborah]

I never made more than that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're worth a million and a half at 67. What do you tell people when they're listening to this that are in their 20s that can they do this? And what did you do? What should they do to be like you?

[Deborah]

You can do it. I had a great teacher, especially my dad. Started early, had a piggy bank and bank account, couldn't reach the teller window. But start early as you can. Live with what you need, not what you want. Don't try to keep up with friends and neighbors. Look for the far future, not just tomorrow. You know, just keep slow and steady. Slow and steady. Live on less than you make. I always paid myself first. That went into savings and, you know, and then I lived on the rest. I didn't try to keep up with others.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you drive?

[Deborah]

A 15 year old Honda Civic. Honda Civic. And I bought it used.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Incredible. Incredible. What's it like being 67 and not worrying about money?

[Deborah]

It's, it's a weird feeling. I still can't get used to it. My financial advisor, who is fantastic and helped me get this this far, you know, he keeps saying, you know you're okay, you know you're okay. And I'm going, well, I'm, I'm not sure yet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I'm proud of you. That's amazing.

[Deborah]

Yeah, I mean, you did a great job. I was just well taught. You know, any, anything that was extra always went into savings. I, you know, if you got raises or bonuses, it was like untouched, put it in savings. But you know, when I say savings, I mean, you know, in my Roth ira, every year in my mutual funds, just keep plowing through it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, there's, there's lots of ways to find information these days. And you're one of the rare people that just went and did it. And so that's amazing. That's. We're proud of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're cool. You know, your dad, you know, your dad's really proud, don't you?

[Deborah]

I hope he is. I hope he is. He had a saying. He said, if you're walking down the street and you see a penny on the sidewalk, pick it up because you may need it to make a dollar.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go. That's how it works. Oh, where are those guys? Oh, my goodness. I love it. Alex is In Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Alex, what's your network?

[Garrett]

It is 1.1 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. And give me a little breakdown by category.

[Garrett]

It is 700,000 in my emergency fund and my retirement savings and my kids college and then 200,000 in home equity and about 150,000 in vehicles and other assets and toys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. How old are you?

[Garrett]

33.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much of this did you inherit?

[Garrett]

Nothing. My parents did help me out with college, but that's about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what do you make a year?

[Garrett]

450,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa. What do you do?

[Garrett]

I'm a financial planner.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Well done. Very cool. Well, and you're obviously doing it for yourself. Well played, brother. The cobbler's kids have no shoes. Not yours. They got good shoes. I like it. Well done, sir. Very well done. Well, congratulations. Thank you for sharing your numbers with us, guys. It's not mythology and it's not out of reach. And the American dream is not dead. The people out there telling you, trying to steal your hope. I call them hope stealers. That's an evil, evil movement. When people tell you you can't win, you need to stay away from those kind of people. You can win, and it's not a panacea. This is not Pollyanna. It's not. It's not easy, it's not automatic, but it's very doable when you apply yourself. None of the people we talked to today were geniuses. None of them were crooks. None of them were trust fund babies. They were all people, just like you, John. This can be done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it can be done. And every single person on here has remarked about, we just did a thing and we just kept doing it. Consistency, consistency, consistency, consistency. And you look up and you're 33, you're 55, you're 67, and you're worth more than a million dollars. So it's. It's just. There's just not a hack to it, man. There's just not a hack. I keep showing up and keep showing up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live on less than you make and save some money. Whoa. I mean, that's it. I mean, it's 42 years old. 31, 59, 53, 62, 67 and 33. That was the millionaires we talked to today. They weren't 92. They didn't live in a cave and collect lint. Only come out on triple coupon Thursday. They had a life. They're driving reasonable cars, which sometimes I find they're still driving cheap junk, and I need to get them to get a car. But. But because they've been driving cheap junk so long, that's how they got there. But, you know, it's. You guys have done such a good job. This is very doable. If you want to learn more, pick up the book. Baby steps, Millionaires. I've sold almost a million of those now. It's because I want to make more millionaires. And you know what makes them? It's not magic, it's hopeful. And that's why we do this hour, to give you guys hope and take and offset the hope stealers that are saying the American dream is dead. It's impossible. You're not waiting on the White House to fix your life. What happens in your house is more important. None of these people said the president sent me money because the president never sends you money. Well, if they do, it's a trick. Be careful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They'll come ask for it back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. I love it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman and this is what my new show, Front Row Seat is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more. What sets successful people apart is a never ending desire to learn and grow. Each week I'll be joined by industry leaders and world class experts to have a conversation about how to get better, move up and lead well in work and life. But the best part of this show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in studio, we'll have a group of professionals just like you who have the power to ask questions and steer the discussion in real time. It's an opportunity to get real answers to real questions like how to make the right decisions, have hard conversations, live a balanced life, and discover your next steps to growth. Join us every Tuesday for conversations that are guaranteed to surprise, challenge and inspire you. Check out Front Row Seat wherever you get your podcasts.