Small Steps Lead to Big Change

Summary

The Ramsey Show Podcast Summary

Episode: Small Steps Lead to Big Change
Date: September 29, 2025
Hosts: George Campbell & Jade Warshaw (Ramsey Network)

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Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show zeroes in on practical steps for building wealth and taking control of your finances, especially after making mistakes with money. Dave Ramsey's signature advice is delivered by co-hosts George Campbell and Jade Warshaw, who answer live audience questions about retirement planning, dealing with debt, housing decisions, career setbacks, and big life changes like adoption. The main theme is that the path to financial success is paved with small, consistent steps—and that anyone can transform their future, regardless of past financial missteps.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Prioritizing Enjoyment and Flexibility in Retirement (00:39–08:27)

• Caller: Mindy (Maine)
  • Facing a chronic health condition, Mindy and her husband are entering Baby Step 7 and want advice on where to “park” money to maximize both growth and access—since her life expectancy may be shorter than average.
  • Key advice:
    • Open a non-retirement brokerage account (mutual or index funds) to supplement traditional retirement savings and create a "dream fund" that can be accessed before standard retirement age.
    • Continue contributions to retirement accounts, but consider cash-flowing big experiences with current income once the mortgage is paid.
    • Jade: “That’s the beauty of Baby Step 7, you get to choose how you build wealth, how you give…” (08:27)

2. Navigating Salary Discrepancies and Pay Conversations (11:37–18:12)

• Caller: Lauren (Ohio)
  • Lauren discovers her lower pay compared to a junior coworker and seeks guidance on broaching this with her manager.
  • Key advice:
    • Approach the conversation with curiosity, not confrontation.
    • Avoid emotional language; focus on understanding how pay is structured and what growth opportunities look like.
    • Look for patterns—if management is unresponsive to fairness, consider other job opportunities.
    • Jade: “Approaching it in a collaborative way… puts the ball in their court to say, ‘Okay, that’s fair.’” (16:43)

3. The Myth of the Credit Score and How to Thrive Without One (21:26–31:16)

• Caller: Kiata (North Carolina)
  • Kiata is shocked her credit score dropped after paying off debt and wonders if she should “put debt back on the card.”
  • Key advice:
    • Credit scores exist to assess debt usage; you do not need a good credit score to rent, buy a home, or function financially.
    • Manual underwriting is available for those with no/low scores.
    • Don’t let the credit score dictate behavior—focus on net worth instead.
    • George: “You can do, with a zero credit score, all the things that you can do with a high credit score…” (22:37)
    • Jade: “Stop looking at the score… Imagine you never had to think about your credit score again. Would that free you mentally?” (24:17)

4. Housing Decisions and Vehicle Living (32:40–36:14)

• Question: Claire (Nebraska)
  • Claire buys a van to live in, viewing the debt as a ‘mortgage.’ Co-hosts challenge the wisdom of financing a depreciating asset for housing.
  • Key advice:
    • Debt should only be used (sparingly) for appreciating assets, like a fixed 15-year mortgage.
    • Living in a depreciating vehicle isn’t a strategic move—consider stabilizing through reasonable rent and purchasing a car in cash.
    • Look forward 5 years—focus on growing income and smarter asset choices.

5. Emergency Fund Boundaries and Personal Integrity (36:14–42:09)

• Caller: Christina (Alaska)
  • After a flood and repeated withdrawals for non-emergencies (husband’s truck parts, TV), Christina worries about her depleted emergency fund.
  • Key advice:
    • Emergency funds should only be used for urgent, necessary, and unexpected expenses.
    • Co-mingling wants and emergencies violates personal financial “integrity.” Consider creating separate, less accessible accounts for splurge funds.
    • George: “It becomes a personal integrity issue… you can spend it however you want, but you said this was an emergency fund.”

6. Starting Over After Financial Setbacks (57:24–63:53)

• Caller: Keith (Georgia)
  • After a foreclosure and stretch of unemployment, Keith and his wife are living in a camper, struggling to secure new housing with damaged credit.
  • Key advice:
    • Seek landlords who use manual review, not corporate complexes.
    • Focus on increasing income, paying off collections and auto loans.
    • Two years of stability and cleaned-up debt will make a huge difference; don’t let today’s struggle define your future.
    • Jade: “Three years from now, you’re going to be in a completely different place…” (62:30)

7. Midlife Reinventions and Career Pivots (66:03–75:16)

• Caller: Anna (Spokane, WA)
  • At 50, after raising kids alone and doubling her income, Anna fears layoffs and considers a career change but worries about losing salary.
  • Key advice:
    • Don’t quit until the new opportunity is secured, but follow passions that allow for both earning and fulfillment.
    • Consider live-in childcare/estate manager roles, especially those with benefits (salary + living expenses) to allow for rapid retirement investing.
    • Pare down possessions to essentials; don’t let fear of change hold you back from happiness.

8. Funding an Adoption Without Debt (77:29–85:00)

• Caller: Dalia (Chicago)
  • After being matched for adoption, Dalia’s family is $3,500 short of full fees, with a two-week deadline.
  • Key advice:
    • Tap social networks, church, and GoFundMe—people are motivated by time-sensitive, tangible goals.
    • Sell anything nonessential; every dollar counts and cash flowing the adoption avoids the pain of debt.
    • Jade: “It’s going to make it all the more sweet and joyful when you guys cash flow this whole thing…” (84:06)

9. Stay-at-Home Parenting, Budgeting, and Financial Clarity (86:52–95:16)

• Caller: Chris (Washington)
  • Dual-income household becomes single income to avoid daycare; worries about keeping up savings, investing, and feeling out of control.
  • Key advice:
    • Get ultra-clear with budgeting—track every dollar, and adjust to current needs.
    • Ensure 15% income is invested for retirement.
    • Random spending causes anxiety; replacing spreadsheets with an app (EveryDollar) can create mutual understanding and control.
    • Jade: “That’s what’s making you feel out of control… there should be two grand laying around and it’s gone…” (93:07)

10. Should You Buy a House Later in Life? (97:38–105:39)

• Caller: Ann (Indiana)
  • Recently divorced, in her early 60s, considering renting versus buying a modest home.
  • Key advice:
    • Paying cash for a home (~$200k) is reasonable, given her assets and inheritance.
    • Stabilizing housing costs is increasingly important as rents inflate.
    • Don’t let comfort in renting delay the dream of ownership and stability.

11. Paying Off Your Mortgage in Retirement (117:39–123:53)

• Caller: Ann (South Carolina)
  • At age 71, widowed, and using IRA withdrawals to pay a low-rate mortgage. Wondering if she should just pay off the house.
  • Key advice:
    • Paying off the home simplifies retirement and offers peace of mind, even if the mortgage rate is low.
    • Must keep a healthy emergency fund and ensure remaining investments are properly allocated.
    • Jade: “For me, that’s not owing one any money and having more freedom. And you’re likely going to be okay.” (121:27)

12. Car Upgrades—Why Not to Finance, Even If You Can (123:55–126:34)

• Caller: Alex (Raleigh, NC)
  • Well-off listener considers financing a vehicle because he has a bonus coming soon and wife wants to get the car now.
  • Key advice:
    • Never take a car loan—wait until you have cash in hand.
    • Stick to the basic Ramsey parameters: budget, debt free (except the house), fully funded emergency fund, investing 15%, generous giving, proper insurances.
    • “You cannot consider debt for this.” (125:59)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On credit scores:
  • “...your credit score is only a debt measure. It has nothing to do with whether you actually have money, or if you manage it well.” — George Campbell (23:00)
• On salary negotiation:
  • “The comparison game of salary—it’s never going to be, ‘Oh great, we’re making the exact same amount...’ It always turns into resentment.” — Jade Warshaw (16:12)
• On burnout and progress:
  • “You can’t sustain all-out sprinting forever—getting to the wall is normal, just find a new pace.” — George Campbell (111:16)
• On living on less:
  • “What’s more exhausting—10 years of living stuck, or one to two years of hard sprint to get free?” — Jade Warshaw (115:13)
• On generosity:
  • “A generous person will prosper; whoever refreshes others will be refreshed.” — (Proverbs 11:24-25, cited at 116:29)

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• 00:39 – Mindy’s retirement/life-expectancy dilemma and creative investing
• 11:37 – Lauren navigates salary inequity at her job
• 21:26 – The realities of credit scores and breaking free from 'the matrix'
• 32:40 – Should you “get a van as a mortgage”?
• 36:14 – Emergency funds: what counts as an ‘emergency’?
• 57:24 – Living in a camper after foreclosure—how to rebuild
• 66:03 – Midlife career crisis: pivoting careers at 50
• 77:29 – Scrambling for adoption money without debt
• 86:52 – Structuring family budgets after a parent stays home
• 97:38 – Renting vs. owning after divorce in your 60s
• 117:39 – Should retirees pay off low-rate mortgages?
• 123:55 – Car upgrades: never borrow for a vehicle

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Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, George and Jade demonstrate that real change comes from small, intentional steps, a refusal to accept “normal” (which is broke), and a willingness to have difficult conversations with oneself and others. The episode is a testament to the power of community, transparency, and perseverance—no matter your age, health, or previous mistakes, financial transformation is within reach.

(For more resources, visit ramseysolutions.com and consider using the EveryDollar app for personalized budgeting guidance.)

Transcript

[George Campbell]

Foreign.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

To you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Jade Warshaw]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds credit union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by best selling author Jade Warshaw. We're taking Your calls at 888-825-5225. Mandy is going to kick us off in Maine. What's going on? Mandy? Hi.

[Caller]

Great to speak to you guys. How are you both today?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, sorry. I said Mandy. It's Mindy. My eyes have failed me today already.

[Caller]

That's okay. So my question is, my husband and I are actually scheduled to be in baby Step 7 Starting off the new year.

[George Campbell]

Yay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Cool.

[Caller]

I know, I'm excited, but I have a chronic condition and actually it's a condition that I ended up in the hospital for about a month and in a coma for like three weeks in June of 2022. And since then I really started to live life a little bit differently. I've traveled more. But I do know that my heart condition is not. I'm probably not going to live to a full life through retirement, which I'm okay with. I do well every day and I feel blessed by it. But my question is, where is the best place to park our money as we go through baby step seven so that we can get to it and enjoy it more than if we were to push it off to retirement?

[George Campbell]

That's a very good question.

[Jade Warshaw]

I can't believe you're so level headed and clear headed. I would be a wreck. How long have you known about this condition? Obviously it's been at least a few years.

[Caller]

I was actually born with it. My parents were told that if I made it to the age of three and lived through a surgery, I'd be lucky. And thanks to technology, I'm here.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old are you now?

[George Campbell]

Miracle.

[Caller]

I am 47 and I actually have built my life around this. I'm a nurse and I used what I was given as a positive.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow, that's beautiful. Well, you've, you've made it to 47 and you were only supposed to live till 3, so I would be very optimistic. Clearly you are. You're. You're living your best life as far as you can live it with the condition you have. And I'm really inspired by that. What is the current life expectancy at this point? Have they told you anything or is it just like, hey, you probably won't make it to 65 or 70.

[Caller]

It's pretty much, hey, you probably won't make it to 65 or 70. The generation before me really didn't make it. I am in that new generation of people that did make it. So there's not a lot of research.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you are like the research at this point.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. Okay.

[George Campbell]

That's a miracle. I mean, so you guys have done really well. Obviously you're going to be hitting baby step seven. What's your net worth going to be when that takes place?

[Caller]

So we actually are. I realized yesterday that through our, our retirement we are already baby step millionaires.

[George Campbell]

Excellent. How much of that is the house and how much of that is in retirement savings?

[Caller]

So actually the house is probably worth 400. We'll have that done by January. And our retirement currently is just over a million.

[George Campbell]

Nice. So about 600.

[Caller]

Yeah, it was. Between the two of us, we have like 1.2. Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's just in retirement.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh my goodness.

[George Campbell]

Do you have anything in brokerage accounts or any kind of bridge funds? Right now.

[Caller]

We have savings, but I don't know nothing in brokerage.

That's more.

I don't even know if I know what a brokerage is.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. That's just a non retirement investment account. And so that would be the solution to accessing funds before you hit, you know, 59 and a half. And so you can, you know, and you can take money out of retirement, just the contributions if it's like, you know, a Roth IRA, for example, without penalty. But I would rather see that money grow. You've already earmarked it for retirement. So I would just set aside, you know, whatever that, that I guess call it your, a bucket list fund, whatever you guys want to name it, your dream fund and start putting money in this non retirement investment account and just let that money grow. And you can park that in a mutual fund or index fund inside of one of those non retirement accounts and, and just start parking money there and you'll, you know, at least have it grow with the rate of the market versus a savings account.

[Caller]

Okay, that makes sense.

[George Campbell]

Do you have children?

[Caller]

We do. We have one. That was a very blessed event as well. Wow.

[George Campbell]

Wow. Okay, so there is, I'm asking because there is posterity there. So I'm thinking about, obviously the retirement money is there for you, but the hope is that you'll live off of the nest egg. You know, you will never touch the nest egg. Just living off the interest when that time comes. But George did make a good point about The Roth ira. So that's. That's something that could be there if you were getting down to the wire. I mean, I'm trying to think of a situation where it's like, we must take this trip to Italy, you know, and it's like, you know, do you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Have actual, like, tactical things you're wanting to do that have a dollar amount attached to it?

[Caller]

I mean, I haven't attached dollars to it, but I do. I still currently work full time. I would love to go, you know, part time in and then travel a little bit more.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. What does your husband make?

[Caller]

My husband makes. So, honestly, he's getting a pension and working, so I don't know exactly, but I was doing our every dollar, and we're making good money on a monthly basis.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Give us a ballpark number just so I can help. Help me understand kind of what we're working with. Is this. 10 grand a month? 20 grand a month?

[Caller]

Yeah, probably 10 grand a month. Good.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I'm just trying to figure out, if you just stop working today, could you guys get by now that you don't have a mortgage payment come January?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think we could, but I definitely am not quite ready for that. I just.

[Jade Warshaw]

You enjoy working your work?

[Caller]

I love my work.

[Jade Warshaw]

I didn't know if that was holding you back from these other things that you're wanting to do, because the other thing is, let's say you do live to 65. Well, we. You don't want to just go, well, we accomplished the bucket list in two years, and now we're just sitting around. So I like the idea of you working as long as you enjoy it and that your health allows you to.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, I. If anything, I would go part time just so I could travel more, but.

I really do enjoy what I do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Awesome. Well, I'll tell you this. Your investments, you know, based on what the market has done historically, it'll double about every seven years. So your 1.2 will become 2.4 by the time you are 54 years old. And then at 61, you're looking at, you know, close to $5 million. And that's if you didn't add anything to it. So I want to encourage you that your retirement, you guys have done so well, probably even before you had this, you know, you kind of knew what life was going to look like. You guys have just been doing a really good job following the Ramsey plan.

[Caller]

We've been trying. We definitely, you know, after my event in 2022, are. Our intensity went down and we Traveled.

[Jade Warshaw]

A little bit more, but understandable.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

What is your mortgage payment? What are you going to free up in January?

[Caller]

We will free up just under 2,000, but we also are putting, you know, at least 5,000 or more a month.

Away right now towards it.

[George Campbell]

You know, I really think, you know, a brokerage is a great idea. It's a great bridge between now and retirement. But it sounds like your husband makes a good income. It sounds like you're contributing too. And when the time comes to take these trips, it feels like you could really cash flow a lot of it as long as you planned it a little bit in advance to say, hey, over the summer, here's what we want to do. And if you give yourself, you know, eight months to save up for it, that sort of thing, it feels like a lot of this is at your disposal month to month as well.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I like that idea. I mean, you could do some in the brokerage. I would just up the budget, line items and go fund money for Mindy Y dream fund, travel fund, all of those things. I would up it. And that's the beauty of baby step seven is you get to choose how you build wealth, how you give. And I would encourage you to do all three saves, spend and give with the time you have on this earth. Mindy. We hope it's a long one. For way too long, I struggled with sleep and woke up groggy after tossing and turning all night. But now I look forward to bedtime and I wake up bright eyed and bushy tailed thanks to Casper, a company that's been perfecting better sleep for over a decade. Using durable, high quality materials that actually last my whole family now sleeps on Casper mattresses. Yes, even the dogs have their own Casper dog bed. To no one's surprise, and it's not just one man's opinion, Casper customers keep their mattresses for years and 4 out of 5 customers recommend them to friends. And with free delivery and 100 night trial, Casper is no gimmicks. A mattress you can trust backed by quality that lasts. So go to Casper.com Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey to receive 20 off all mattresses and 10% off everything else. With code Ramsey. That's Casper.com Ramsey exclusions apply. Well guys, the all new every dollar is here and it's a game changer. And we just launched a very exciting and well done premiere on our YouTube channel so you can see the app in action. Rachel Cruz, Jayde Warshaw, myself, we were all involved in the making of what feels like an apple Keynote can actually change your life.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Instead of like, we have bit emojis now ours is like, hey, what if you got out of debt for good facts? So way better go check it out. You can hear how folks are finding thousands of dollars in margin in just 15 minutes using EveryDollars new features. So just imagine how much you could put towards your money goals once you find out where all that margin is hiding. Go check out the premiere on our YouTube channel now. It's already. It's gone gangbusters. I mean, over a hundred thousand views in the first day it's been up there. And the comments have been wonderful. So thank you all for checking it out, using it, and changing your life. We love to see it.

[George Campbell]

My favorite line is when you say the margin in the proverbial couch cushions of your life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's quite proverbial.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is underused.

[George Campbell]

It is.

[Jade Warshaw]

You gotta know what's under those couch cushions. When you find something under a couch cushion, it is like a magic trick.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's always like a fond memory, maybe a goldfish that you forgot about. Not a real life one.

[George Campbell]

Like the crackers in our household. I find like wrappers, like granola bar wrappers. Cause the kids. Fruit snacks wrappers.

[Jade Warshaw]

I thought you were hiding the candy from Sam under the couch so he can't find it. Not in the pantry, Sam. Don't look there. It's the children.

[George Campbell]

It's in the couch cushions. The proverbial ones.

[Jade Warshaw]

The proverbial cushions. All right, Lauren is in Ohio. Up next, how can we help today? Lauren.

[Caller]

Lauren, hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. How can we help?

[Caller]

My question, my question is about fair pay. My co worker and I, I'm a senior graphic designer. He is regular graphic designer, which is a step below me. He makes $80,000 and I make 68,000. And I'm wondering, how can I discuss this with my manager without throwing her under the bus?

[Jade Warshaw]

How'd you find out? Through discussion with him or some water cooler break talk. And they're like, what do you. What are you making? Like, I'm making 80. And they're like, oh, gosh, do they know how much you make?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's just conversation with my co worker.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Which I know is normally not supposed to happen.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, it's all the rage among the youth is the new salary transparency. We should all be talking all the time about how much we make and like, fight and like unionize, you know, So I get it.

[Caller]

Right? That's exactly what she told me.

[George Campbell]

Have you mentioned it? Have you mentioned it at all to your leader?

[Caller]

No, I have not.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you're just looking for strategy on how to bring it up.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I understand you want to be, you know, cautious and tactful and not be like, well, so and so told me that they make this. You know, I think you need to bring it up in a way that's like, hey, like, I found this information out, and I'm just curious how you guys look at valuing these positions. Because I've been in this position this long. I'm at this role. What does a growth plan look like? You know, is there a reason why I'm. I'm behind on that, or is it just, hey, the market has changed and they're needing to pay more to get new talent. Like, my, My guess is that it's not malicious. And my hope is that they do the right thing and go, yeah, no, we're going to. We'll give you a bump. Maybe it's not today. Maybe it's, hey, at your annual review, we're going to relook at this and give you what's fair. And if they, if they don't, if they treat this callously, I think that's also a sign that you need to go elsewhere if you feel like you deserve more with the role and experience you have. You know, I wouldn't hold on to the grudge and resentment and stay where you are. I'd be looking elsewhere.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

But there's no. It's going to be uncomfortable. I would call that out. We have a guide on uncomfortable conversations on our entree leadership side for business owners that I think would also help you. You know, you're not on the leadership, you're on the other side. But just opening and say, hey, I need to have an uncomfortable conversation, and I would leave as much emotion as you can out of it, which is hard. So I would like, do your venting privately and then walk in there with a lot of logic and not a lot of curiosity.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I think, George, you nailed it when you said curiosity. Because I'm just thinking through this and looking at possibilities. Because the truth is you've got to. As much curiosity as you can have and as much as. It's just, I. I don't know. Because the truth is maybe your co worker said no on another benefit to get a bigger. To get more money in their pocket. Like, there's different ways that people could have negotiated their salary and benefits are a part of that too. True. I'm just saying we don't Know the full story. We don't know the full story and you guys are talking. He listen, at the end of the day, I don't know, I would not put all of my stock in what my co worker is saying. I would give some benefit of the doubt also to your manager. I'm just saying don't come in guns a blazing. That's all I'm saying.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Have you been getting raises regularly?

[Caller]

I've gotten one raise and well, two raises in five and a half years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and do you feel like those were fair or do you feel like, hey, I went from, you know, junior to senior, there should have been a much bigger bump than just like a cost of living adjustment that one of.

[Caller]

Them was cost of living. One of them was a raise.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, yeah, I would, I would bring it up. Do you have an annual review coming up soon or like a one on one with your leader that you have regularly in December? Okay, that's a good time to have that. You could start the conversation now and they might say, hey, let's, let's punt this to December and we'll have a bigger conversation around it because your comp will likely change by then anyways. Your feelings are valid. Let me just say that you're not, I don't like, yeah, just suck it up and do your job. You're fine. I think you have very fair and valid feelings. I just know attacking it with that level is gonna feel like entitlement. And I've been there, I have attacked that problem with my leaders going, I just, I feel like I should be making more because other people make good. That's just not gonna play well, unfortunately in reality.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's the thing. I was happy with what I was making until I found out that information.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And that's why the, the comparison game of salary, it's, it's never going to be like, oh great, we're making the exact same amount and we're doing the exact same level of work with the same amount of effort. It just always turns into one person being resentful and upset. And that's why, that's the downside of these salary transparency conversations. So I think just approaching it with, in a collaborative way, in a curious way of just going, hey, help me understand why this is and what a growth plan would be like. That's, that's going to put the ball in their court to say, okay, yeah, that's fair.

[George Campbell]

What'd you say?

[Caller]

I should not let them know that I'm aware of your pay? Correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

You Can't. I mean, it's. I think it's honest to say, hey, I heard this, like, through the grapevine. Like this. You know, the conversation came up. Whatever it is, you don't need to say they told me. But they're probably. They're probably going to ask, like, hey, like, where? How did that come up? Because that can also mean, hey, we were, quote, gossiping.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know what I mean? That can feel like that. So if I'm the leader, I'm going, why are you guys all in the break room?

[George Campbell]

Well, I didn't even own that. I'd own that and say, listen, this is probably information I shouldn't know, but I became aware of it, and I. Yeah, and that way you're saying, hey, you know. You know, we're not supposed to be chatting about this, but at the same time, if somebody just up and tells you something, they just up and told you. So it's like, it's not Men in Black. We can't just. Just, you know, with the little pin join, you know.

[Jade Warshaw]

But I would also be. If you feel like this is the case and they haven't been looking at it and been ignoring it, whether on purpose or subconsciously, I would also be looking for other positions. And the job market's tough right now, so it might be, you know, six months before you find something that lands. But if you feel like, hey, it's my time to go anyways, my heart's not in it here anymore, then I would be considering that. But if you love it there and all. All other things aside, you're like, no, I love it. I just feel like I should be paid what I'm worth based on marketplace value. That's a different conversation.

[Caller]

Okay, that's very.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old are you?

[Caller]

Thank you. 35.

[George Campbell]

Call us back and tell us what happened or leave the message. Tell us what happens. I want to know.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

To be continued.

[Jade Warshaw]

We never know what happens with these conversations. Okay. That'll be a fun report back. Hey, remember I called about that? Well, I got the raise or.

[George Campbell]

I know, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Found a new job. Making more.

[George Campbell]

Are you hearing this, James?

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm making a note. James is making a. But I felt this. Jade. I've been at Ramsey, you know, 12 years now.

[Caller]

Now.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I've had six jobs.

[George Campbell]

You've been here 12 years? Holy smokes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I started when I was a wee little baby. I haven't grown physically, but I have grown a lot emotionally. Mentally, I can see.

[George Campbell]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, and so I feel like I've I know that feeling because I've been there. And sometimes it was a legitimate. Hey, there maybe some poor leadership.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Maybe it was a poor timing.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

But a lot of the times it was just me. It was the guy inside, and I was drinking my own poison, creating a.

[George Campbell]

Narrative that wasn't true about this versus that or.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Or like, why I'm not, you know, just this sort of, like, little man syndrome. Fist in the air. Do you feel like you were.

[George Campbell]

You were. Do you feel like you fell victim to the little man syndrome?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I think there's just a level of it's never going to be as fast as you want, and you're always going to feel like, well, I deserve more. I work hard around here.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then over time, you look back and you're like, why was I so.

[George Campbell]

Why was I like this?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I hear that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just the way you approached it, it was like the problem was true, but.

[George Campbell]

The way you went about it. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's like your attitude towards it makes all the difference.

[George Campbell]

Been there, been there, done that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I feel for her. Hope it goes well. This is the Ramsey Show.

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[Jade Warshaw]

Kiata's up next in North Carolina. What's up, Kiata? How can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, I was calling. You know what? Thank you so much for taking my call. First of all, I was calling because I, I probably saw this into Dave Ramsey last month.

Yes.

I found y' all on YouTube and was like, huh, this guy knows what he's talking about. I like this.

And I decided to go ahead and.

Pay off my credit card bill.

[George Campbell]

Way to go.

[Caller]

I took the revolving debt off my credit card bill, went to my local credit union, got another checking account, and put all that debt to come out that checking account.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Now I'm watching my credit score go down. Now keep in mind, I still have school loans. That's over $17,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Should I put some of that revolving debt back onto the credit card?

[George Campbell]

No, no, no, no. So you've done a wonderful thing here, which is you found some knowledge that is, that was different from the knowledge you had before. Right. For the first time, you're hearing some guy say, pay off your credit cards. Pay off your credit cards. And you go, you know what? What I've been doing has not been working. Let me try what this guy's saying. You pay off the credit cards, right? So let me give you another piece of information that is likely going to be very different from what you've heard. Are you ready?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

We would tell you, and I'm telling you right now, you're concerned about your credit score, but you don't need to be concerned about your credit score. And I'm going to tell you why. The truth is, this is the truth and I get paid nothing for telling you this. Okay? The truth is you can do with a zero credit score, all of the things that you can do with a high credit score. And if you continue the advice that you heard from Dave Ramsey, which is just keep paying your debt off, right. The truth is, eventually the things that were informing your credit score, which was only debt, right? If you keep paying your debt off, your debt will be gone. And what will happen also is your credit score will be gone. Because your credit score is only a deter, it's only a debt measure. That's all it is. It's how much debt you have, how long you've had your debt, what types of debt you have, what percentage of debt you're utilizing of the debt that you have access to. That's all it's measuring. It has nothing to do with whether or not you, Kiata, actually have money, whether you, Kiara, manage the money that you have. Well, and Kiara has nothing to do with whether you can actually afford something. It is a made up thing for banks to get you to borrow money so that they can make money. That's all it is. And the people sitting next here at this desk have bought houses and lived their whole, you know, majority of their adult lives without credit scores. So it's 100% possible. You just don't hear about it. How does that hit you?

[Caller]

Oh, that is nice. I did not know that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Imagine you never had to think about your credit score again. Would that free you mentally?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what's going to happen as you, as you become debt free. And likely what happened there is again, your utilization went down because you paid off the debt and it's going to stabilize. And as you pay off the debt, it's going to get better, might get worse, might get better. And then eventually it's going to disappear once you have no debt whatsoever. And I can tell you from experience, I can tell you from all of my research, I wrote a whole, I wrote a whole chapter about this in my book Breaking free from broke in the credit cards chapter explaining every objection. Well, I can't get an apartment. Yes you can. Here's how to do it. Not that difficult. Well, I can't get a house. Yes you can. Here's how to do it. Bada bing, bada boom. And so you're gonna realize very quickly as you get out of the matrix how silly this game is because you can admit it is insane that as you pay off debt, which we can all agree is a responsible thing to do, your credit score goes down. Doesn't sound insane.

[Caller]

Yes.

And I paid off part of my student loans. So I'm looking at my loans right now and I have four of them left. And I paid off one.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good.

[Caller]

And when, soon as I paid it off, I watched my score drop by 10 points.

[George Campbell]

Here's the news. Yeah, because one of the measures, remember we said, is how many different types of debt you have and how much utilization of the debt. Because, because you went in the opposite direction and went the right way. They went, oh, oh, she's trying to exit the matrix. We don't like that. And so they dinged you to try to get you to come back and say, oh, wait, because you were really considering putting more money on a credit card just to satisfy their little three digit number, which is wild. And so. Yeah, say what you were going to say.

[Caller]

Yes, because I thought, well, I thought that you have to have like revolving debt in order to qualify for like a house. Eventually you have the credit to qualify for a house.

[George Campbell]

You need, here's what you need to, to qualify, I'm going to tell you the real story. So to qualify for a credit Score, Yeah, you need debt, but to qualify for a house, it's the same. It's the same process, just minus the credit score. So for myself, when we did a zero score, meaning I did not have a credit score when we bought our first house, they wanted to know, they wanted pay stubs for the last. I think it was three months. Three months of pay stubs. Since I am self employed, they wanted to see our tax returns for a couple of years. They wanted to see trade lines, which is literally things like cell phones, utilities, insurance.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, and then rental history. Have you paid, have you paid rent on time every month for the last 12 months?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Boom.

[George Campbell]

And that's called manual underwriting. So the difference between manual underwriting and buying a house with a credit score is manual underwriting. They're actually looking at your actual money. They want to see what do you get paid? How long have you been earning that money? To George's point, have you been paying your rent on time? Have you been paying your cell phone and utilities on time? Whereas you could go over to Rocket Money or, you know, whatever, and they're just going to look at a three.

[Jade Warshaw]

Digit number and the computer says, yeah, she's good.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And you, meanwhile, you could have really, you could really not have the kind of money you need and be approved way above what you can handle. And so that's how this works. That is, that is the truth. And people don't hear that side. They only hear the credit side. And the truth is there's more than one way to skin this cat. And the way that we're. I, I feel like this is a terrible analogy, but I'm gonna keep going. There's more than one ways to skin this cat. And the way we're doing it, there's not as much tears and suffering.

[Jade Warshaw]

There we go. We finished the analogy.

[George Campbell]

I'm gonna finish it out.

[Jade Warshaw]

Kiara, I'm cheering you on to debt freedom. And I encourage you to cut up those cards and stop looking at the score.

[George Campbell]

You.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you have like some kind of credit karma app or something? Or look at your score.

[Caller]

The credit card company sends me, like the little chime thing on my phone, like, like a little text message.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you know what they're going to say? They're going to say, hey, we miss you. Here's a new line of credit. Well, up your line of credit, girl, where you been? Exactly. I know they're marketing and so I'm not going to trust the credit card company to tell me what to do with my money. I know because they want my money.

[George Campbell]

And Kia, I'll tell you what happened to me. So as we, my husband Sam, we had, at one point, we had almost $500,000 of debt. And as we were paying it down, yeah, the credit score was drop and we had finally paid off all the debt. And I was checking my score. I was going on credit karma to check my score and it was still like Hanging out like 6, 10. It was terrible. And I was like, oh my gosh, when is it going to drop to zero? Because you're right, you can't do anything with a bad credit score. But with a zero credit score, you're, you're winning. And so I was like, man, this doesn't seem right. And so finally I went on free credit report. Is it freecreditreport.com annualcreditreport.com thank you. Annualcreditreport.com to get the real deal from Equifax, TransUnion. All that. And it actually, actually was zero. And Credit Karma was reporting that it was low to entice me to get back into debt products. So please, please be careful.

[Jade Warshaw]

Guess what? That's how they make money. By partnering with all the debt companies and lenders to with affiliate links to get you to go sign up for their latest and greatest card. You see how much of a scam this whole system is.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I'm going to send you a copy of my book. It'll peel back these layers for you if you'll read it. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. Hang on the line and just read the credit cards chapter. If you just got time for one chapter, read that one. And I hope it gives you some hope that you don't need to live this kind of way.

[Caller]

I'm gonna need the whole book.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I got you for a house and get stuff.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. I'll walk you through all of it in that book and how to do it without a credit score. Every single thing you need. And our partners at Churchill Mortgage, those are the folks who know how to do it. They're the number one in the country when it comes to these no score loans with manual underwriting. Because the truth is most lenders are just lazy and they'd rather the computer tell them.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, that's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And have a real person look through these documents.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

They're trying to make as many loans as possible to make as much money.

[George Campbell]

And that's what you said, George, is so true. It is worth highlighting. Yeah. You might go down to your local bank and maybe they don't do manual underwriting. That's very possible. But there are plenty of places that do. And we're always going to recommend Churchill mortgage because number one, they're in almost all of the 50 states so you can get your loan done. But yeah, it just takes a little. All of this, George, is just that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Little bit more effort.

[George Campbell]

A little more effort, less due diligence. Just, just to just look under the hood. You actually have to open the hood to look under it.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a good one. I'll give you one last one. The credit score. It's like watching a juggler and you're like, wow, they're perfectly juggling all of this. And you're like, yeah, but that looks exhausting. Yeah, like, yeah, but they're so good at juggling.

[George Campbell]

Focus for one second.

[Jade Warshaw]

Juggling as no falls out. Unless you're part of a circus. Just drop the balls, guys. Live your best life. Enough with the debt. Enough keeping up with the three digit number. Let's focus on our net worth and our life instead of making these companies happy.

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[Caller]

All.

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[Jade Warshaw]

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[George Campbell]

Alrighty. Today's question comes from Claire in Nebraska. She says, I bought a van that I plan to live in full time. I bring home $30,000 a year and the van was 25,000 which I'm financing at $350 a month. My rationale for doing this is that I won't be paying rent except for the occasional camping fees. If I add my 95amonth car insurance, my total monthly payments are $433. I did borrow money to buy the van, but Dave is not against borrowing money for a mortgage. And I see the van loan expense as kind of being like a mortgage. Am I making a smart decision to set myself up for future success? Okay, so, Claire, I. I'm tracking with you on the idea of, hey, if I'm viewing this as a mortgage, then the debt, you know, wasn't a bad thing. I can kind of get there with you mentally on how you made that transformation. I'm not saying I agree, but I can. I can make that transformation with you. I think the bigger. The biggest problem that I have with this is. And. And let me go a step further. I'm also tracking with you on trying to keep your expenses low. I. I respect what you trying to do there. My biggest issue with this is it's something that is going to continue to go down in value, and it. It likely will be upside down before the time that you've paid it off. By the time you're ready to trade it in for another van, you're probably going to have the problem with it being upside down. So for that reason, the fact that it's something that's going down in value versus going up, is why I don't like this deal. And my bigger question, George, for Clara, would be, what's happening in your life that you're needing to have your. To live in your van and not get an apartment or, you know, that sort of thing?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, usually people aren't making that kind of move out of a place of strength.

[George Campbell]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sometimes it's, hey, we want to do something fun and wild, and we're gonna, you know, get the family to live in an rv. Sure, that's different. But usually it's. I try to justify it because I'm in a bad financial position and this feels like the best move when really it's a shortcut that doesn't lead you anywhere.

[George Campbell]

Well, she's not saying there. And maybe this is here and you just forgot to write it. She didn't say, I'm an adventurous person, and I just love traveling the world, you know, traveling the country. And it didn't make sense to have a rent, you know, Sure, I can get on board with that. You didn't say how old you are either. There's a lot here that I'd like to know. If you're 65 and this is the move. Yeah, Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, I mean, it's Nebraska. Like, I'm thinking about winter in Nebraska. Living in a van, that just scares me for your health, your mental health, your quality of life.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

So the bigger question is, where does Claire want to be five years from now if that's to be a homeowner? I just think we need to focus on getting our income up, getting the car that we can afford today in cash. Rent somewhere that you can afford, and then let's focus on moving up. And right now, your biggest expense is an asset that's going down in value. And so that's the difference. Dave's with. The only reason we're okay borrowing a mortgage is because very few people are able to do 100% down on a house. Dave would prefer it that way. So we're only okay in a 15 year mortgage on an appreciating asset like real estate. So I would get out of this while you can, while that van is still worth something, and just go rent somewhere and if you need to get a roommate to afford it, that's fine. But I would stabilize your life in that way instead of living in a van for the foreseeable future. Thanks for the question. All right, Christina's up next in Juneau, Alaska. All right, now we're getting adventurous. What's going on? Christina?

[Caller]

Hello. It's my two favorite people. I'm grateful to have gotten through.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're my favorite person so far.

[Caller]

Thank you. All right, here's my question. My husband is using our emergency fund as a bank. He's using the fund as a way to borrow money without a loan. He is paying the fund back, but he's been using it for non emergency items as well as emergency items. And we've gone down from six months, fully funded, down to 1,500 doll. So if anything were to happen right now, we'd kind of be at the creek. And I know he fully intends to repay the fund, and I used it as well, so I have to repay the fund. But a little backstory on that. Two years ago, our house went through a flood and we lost the floors. Like we have plywood floors right now because. And we had to cut up all the Sheetrock. So we have a whole bunch of house repairs that need to be done.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did insurance not cover the repairs?

[Caller]

No, because we didn't have flood insurance. We. We are not. We were not in a flood zone and the, you know, climate has changed. And actually we live near a glacier that is letting out copious Amounts of water. It's not something that we could plan on and it's not something people saw in the future. And so we did not not have flood insurance. When the river that we live fairly close to does that do its thing? And.

[George Campbell]

But when you have an emergency fund, it is for emergencies. It's for when things happen that you did not foresee happening. And it sounds like yes, to your point. This money has been used for both emergency funds, which would be a green light, but it sounds like it's been used more so for non emergencies. So I have a question. What, how much was in there at the six month point?

[Caller]

35,000.

[George Campbell]

35,000 and it's now down to 1500. Is that what I heard you say?

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

So I want to know what types of things has your husband. Non emergency things. What types of things has he been spending this on? And I want to know has it been done in secret or has he been saying, hey, I really want to do this. I'm just going to pull it from the emergency fund. And are you like you're an accomplice? Yeah. Are you like no or go ahead, as long as you pay it back. Tell us more about exactly how this is going down.

[Caller]

I have known about every single time. There are no secrets.

[George Campbell]

That's good.

[Caller]

And I have a hard time saying no to him.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and why, why is that? Are you just like people pleaser or is he just like, well, I'm doing it anyway. Like, is he just very stubborn or both?

[Caller]

I think it's both. Honestly. I have a hard time saying no because I just want him to have everything.

[Jade Warshaw]

But are these toys? Give us some examples of what he's used this money for. That is not an emergency.

[Caller]

Fixing up his truck. So truck parts.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Just bought a new tv.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, listen, what if we just separated this? Like, what if you had a different fund that was just like the savings fund to buy new stuff. Well, and cash flow it.

[George Campbell]

Before we get to that though, because here's the thing, before we even get to that, I want to say something that it's not an insult. I think it's just true. And let me frame this up by saying this is your money, right? This 35,000, whatever it started, it is your money. And the truth is you can spend it however you want. But both of you said we're earmarking this as an emergency fund. And both of you said that for a reason. You understood either we're working this plan or we understand the value of having emergency funds set aside, right? So at that point it becomes a personal integrity issue because you've both said, we believe that this should be this. And then when you don't uphold it, that's a personal integrity issue to yourself of saying, I'd rather you just do what George said and say, okay, you know what? We've just decided we don't want an emergency fund anymore. We want a truck fund and we want a TV and appliance fund and then just tell yourself the truth. But this business of saying one thing out loud whilst doing something else here, that is something.

[Jade Warshaw]

Cognitive dissonance, dis congruity there. So to Jade's point, I think we need to do some soul searching and have a come to Jesus meeting and say we might need to move these savings to a different account that is less accessible so that you're not just dipping in there for everything. So that might be one solution. I don't like it as a long term solution, but right now it stops the bleeding.

[George Campbell]

That's good. That's true.

[Jade Warshaw]

A real emergency like that's when Murphy shows up is when you just bought the brand new TV and then your H Vac goes out and you got 1500 bucks and now you're taking out a personal loan to cover the H vac.

[George Campbell]

And when that happens, that's when you're really going to feel like, dang it, this. And you're going to feel like, man, this is my fault. I didn't keep my promise to myself. And now because of that, here we are. Whereas if you can at least do what George said and say, okay, this is the slush fund money. This over here is the emergency fund money fund money. We'll keep this much in the EF fund, we'll keep this much in the slush fund and we'll have our fun, you know?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I would move, I would move it to a different savings account. You can check out fairwinds.org Ramsey and they've got a smart bundle for our fans and they have a save smart savings account with high yield. It's awesome. That might be a good temporary fix. But ask yourself these three questions. Is it urgent? Is it necessary? Is it unexpected? If it's not a heck yes to all three, them of those do not touch it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right, here's the truth. I have great friends, a strong faith, an amazing wife and family, and I've even got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well, well. And yet the times that I've spent with a great therapist across my life have made all the difference for me. The right therapist can change everything. And this month, my friends at Better Help are shining the spotlight on therapists. These are people who truly make the world a better place. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world. And BetterHelp works. Their average rating of 4.9 out of 5 proves it. Plus, BetterHelp is totally online, so it's easy to fit into your schedule. To get started, you just answer a few simple questions and they'll connect you with a licensed therapist that helps fit your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. This month, we celebrate the therapists who've helped millions of people take the next right step forward. If you're ready to find the therapist that's right for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com Ramsey.

[Jade Warshaw]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. In the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, I'm George Camel, joined by my co host, Jade Warshaw. Open phones at Triple 825-5225. You call us up, we'll help you transform your life. Donna is in Ontario, Canada. What's going on?

[Caller]

Donna, hi. Thank you for taking my call. I'm 63 and retired and my husband is a little bit younger than me, but he'll be working for maybe another three years. It's a second marriage for both of us, and we both have two adult children. My husband funded my stepdaughter's dental school with our HELOC on our home and cottage for $600,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Caller]

And so now I'm a little nervous about this because it changed a little bit from the beginning. The beginning. She was supposed to. We would fund her four year dental school and then she would graduate, get a job and pay us, go to the bank and get a loan and pay us back. But then she did another two years. That's why it's 600,000 in total.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why did she do another two years?

[Caller]

To be a specialist.

[George Campbell]

And you guys paid for that? No problem.

[Caller]

Yeah. During COVID we reevaluated our cottage so we could borrow more money on that one. So it's a total of 600,000 on our home and our cottage. It looks like my husband wants to turn this into a mortgage because of the savings in the interest rates and then the payments Will also help pay down the principal faster. And now he's looking at buying life insurance to pay extra to buy life insurance while he's working in case he dies. That that money would be used to pay off her debts so that he said, she doesn't have to deal with me.

[George Campbell]

What happened to the plan of her graduating and taking on the loan from you guys?

[Caller]

Because he. They didn't have the right information. She's working in the States and she. She's not a US Citizen.

[George Campbell]

Right, but I, I understand. I'm not saying I agree with the plan, but wasn't the plan that she would then take out her own $600,000 loan and basically give you guys the cash so you were free and clear? Wasn't that what happened there?

[Caller]

Yeah, that was the original agreement that I agreed to. But it wouldn't have been 600. Probably would have been 400,000 because it would have been only the four years.

[Jade Warshaw]

She chose to do the extra two.

[Caller]

She.

[Jade Warshaw]

What was the agreement there?

[Caller]

Yes, there. Nothing has changed because she was still in school.

[Jade Warshaw]

But did she say, hey, I'm going to do these extra two years, I'll cover it through the future loan I get? Or was it, hey, we'll cover the extra two years. You go have fun?

[Caller]

My husband said that we would cover the total.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you guys are on the hook for 200. She's on the hook, in theory, for 400.

[Caller]

No, in theory, she's on the hook for 600.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And I'm saying what happened? Okay, But I'm saying, did she do her part of the plan, which was now when I graduate, I'm supposed to go get this loan for 600,000 and pay back mom and dad. What happened there?

[Caller]

Because she. A bank will not give her a loan because she's. She would.

[Jade Warshaw]

So a Canadian bank won't give her a loan because she works in the States?

[Caller]

Well, because she doesn't have her green card yet. And I don't know if the bank would say, we'll give you $600,000 so you can pay off your parents. I don't think.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is she making enough to pay the HELOC payment?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Is she doing that currently?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. What's the payment every month?

[Caller]

Sorry, I don't have the pages here in front of me. The interest rates are about 4.95 on the house and 5.45% the cottage. And if she was to turn it into a mortgage, it would be a savings of about $3,500 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, a year? Okay, so like 300 bucks a month is what we're talking here to do all this work. Does that include all the fees to make all this happen?

[Caller]

There would be no fees.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Yeah.

[Caller]

I mean we paid off on markets.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's not like a life changing amount of money saved here. And it may make it more complicated because now it's all rolled up into your mortgage versus separated out. So it's clear how much is hers and what's yalls.

[Caller]

Yeah, we don't have a mortgage, we have no debt. Everything is hers. The only thing is, is that it locks into. It's now all of a sudden it's become a long term commitment.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Versus the line of credit, which is the heloc. I would. Yeah, I want you to rephrase that. You said you don't have debt. You guys on the dotted line for the 600 grand, did you not?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

So if she skipped town and said good luck, I'm not paying it, it's on you guys. I want you to remind you the risk is all on you right now. And there's no risk on her part. And so while that's happening, she's living a good life because she has no risk. As long as she makes the payments, you guys are happy. But I want this to get transferred to her as soon as possible.

[Caller]

And that's what I would like too. But my husband seems to want to take care of her and he seems to be okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's your net worth?

[Caller]

I think it's 1.2 million properties.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what's left? The cottage just has the 600 grand. Like was it paid off before you took on the loan?

[Caller]

We just paid off our markets a couple months ago. So. Okay, the HELOC on the cottage is 275,000 and then the HELOC on is 325,000. So we're going to pay off the lower, the lesser loan first and turn that into a mortgage for 275,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I know in Canada it's different with mortgages and it resets every five years. Is that right?

[Caller]

Yeah. And like a term.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Yeah. I mean if the interest works out in your favor and you want to save the 3,500, I think that solves one problem. It puts out one tiny fire. But there is a much bigger fire here, which is the 600,000 thousand pound gorilla on your backs.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm a little worried about it. My husband doesn't seem to be.

[George Campbell]

I actually think that right in this moment that's the bigger problem. Than the 600,000. Because as long as you guys aren't on the same page, not, not much is going to be done to solve it. Because he's okay with it. And so something's got to happen to where you guys either both agree, you know what, this is a gift and we're paying it off, or this is not a gift and we're going to be very serious about finding a way to transfer the risk from us to the daughter. Which I gotta. I just gotta say, it's interesting to me how this played out because you're feeling this weight of this $600,000. You know, like, this is not good debt to have. Did you know that? Did you have a debt? Were you averse to debt before you did this? Because it's weird that you would want to transfer this burden of debt onto a child old or to a kid. She's grown now. I mean, she's out of school. But I mean, my point is debt is not good for anyone, especially someone.

[Jade Warshaw]

Who wants to retire in three years.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

While you've already retired, it just puts you guys at risk that he's gonna have to keep working longer or you might have to sell the cottage if this doesn't play out perfectly, which it already hasn't. Let me remind you. So there's just a lot of risk here. I want to get this hot potato out of your hands as soon as possible possible. But if you want to refinance and save some money in the meantime, be my guest. Good luck, Donna.

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[Jade Warshaw]

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[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, if you're enjoying the Ramsey show or you ever have, do us a quick favor, hit the like button. Hit the subscribe button, hit the share button, the follow button. Just hit all the buttons. It really helps us out. It tells the algorithm that you're enjoying this and someone else else might, too, and that helps us spread some hope. Appreciate you guys doing that. All right, Jade, what do you got for me?

[George Campbell]

You were supposed to set it up in a better way than this.

[Jade Warshaw]

I got no setup. Jade said, hey, I want to do something. And I went, jade, it's your show. I'm just living.

[George Campbell]

No, you were supposed to talk about TRS live. And then I was going to segue.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's true. Do people know? All right, we're doing the Ramsey show live on the road. It's already sold out. We've got Chicago and Orlando on September 30th. In October. October 2nd. And we're pumped to hit the road and see what happens in a live environment.

[George Campbell]

And it's a fun combination, like your day. You're the. The Chicago is different than Orlando.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Chicago will be myself, Rachel Cruz, Ken Coleman, and then two days later, we'll be in Orlando with Jade Warshaw and Dr. John DeLoney.

[George Campbell]

That's good. I'm excited.

[Jade Warshaw]

And me. I'll be there, too.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so this is my bad segue for. We were in. So here on campus, we have a. An office that all the personalities are in. And we were in there talking, and somehow we started talking about the Lion King, the movie Disney. And we were saying, if we were playing those roles, who would we be?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh.

[George Campbell]

And so Ken got all hung up that he should be Rafiki.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh.

[George Campbell]

And I was like, oh, okay. Even though I kind of saw you possibly being Rafiki. And then we were talking about Scar, and I said, john is definitely Scar.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, he's got that dark humor.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Yeah. And so we asked Chat GPT to tell us if we were.

[Jade Warshaw]

If the Rams show should be.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Who's.

[Jade Warshaw]

I feel like Ken is Timone.

[George Campbell]

Interesting that I wanted to be Timone.

[Jade Warshaw]

You could be, too. Yeah. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

I'm gonna tell you what Chat GBT said. Okay. Of course. Mufasa. Dave. Right. Ken Coleman. Rafiki.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, good.

[George Campbell]

It says that he's full of wisdom and guidance.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what I was going to say.

[George Campbell]

Calling and purpose and a little eccentric at times. Okay. George, you're Simba.

[Jade Warshaw]

What?

[Caller]

George.

[George Campbell]

It says the younger, energetic leader. He's the leader in training who's finding his place and voice.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's beautiful. And that means that Dave Ramsey is my father. Oh, listen, there we go. The parallel universe.

[George Campbell]

That's different. Rachel Cruz is Nala. I'm not surprised by that.

[Jade Warshaw]

That makes sense.

[George Campbell]

John Deloney. Timon.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, that meant. Yeah, Okay. I could see that.

[George Campbell]

So I'm thinking, oh, my God. I'm thinking I'm gonna be scar.

[Jade Warshaw]

What did you get?

[George Campbell]

I'm Pumbaa.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

They did you dirty with Pumbaa.

[George Campbell]

Fun, loving, approachable, and totally authentic. She helps people feel safe being themselves and also being a young warthog. All right.

[Jade Warshaw]

He lost me at the warthog. But everything else was right.

[George Campbell]

Isn't he a warthog?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. All right. Right.

[George Campbell]

Just a little.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's beautiful.

[George Campbell]

Just a little fun segment there.

[Jade Warshaw]

That was fun. Yeah. We could do the redo the liveaction movie and cast us and see what happens there.

[George Campbell]

Listen, a lot could go wrong.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I don't want to see Deloney and Dave, you know, go at it. That's. That's a scary premise.

[George Campbell]

Well, if you're listening online, drop in the chats who you think it should have been.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's so fun to. I. I thought I would be like one of the hyenas.

[George Campbell]

I thought you were going to be.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just laughing in the corner.

[George Campbell]

Remember Zazu the bird? I thought you could have been him.

[Jade Warshaw]

So. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Anyway.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right. That was fun. Thank you for that. Can't wait.

[George Campbell]

Moving on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Keith is waiting in Georgia. He's going. What are they doing? I got a real question to ask you, Keith. What's going on, man? Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi.

[Caller]

Thank you. Thank you guys for having me. So, full disclosure, I'm a pretty big ball of nerves right now. I've never really.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, it's just me here. You couldn't. You couldn't have chosen better for a day to be nervous. I got you.

[Caller]

You got it. So I'm hoping I can get a nudge in the right direction. So I'm in the process of trying to find a property to move into with me and my wife as a rental. The only issue I'm running into is I did have a home that was foreclosed on about three years ago. And since then, I kind of got knocked down again with losing my job where actually the location I had closed. So it was. I didn't really have a choice in that. And I kind of took it upon Myself to go to school, get my cdl. And I've been doing that now for about six months. But my credit's not going up as high as I want it to. And I'm trying to see what the best method is going to be to just getting into a apartment or a home. Because, I mean, to be honest, right now me and my wife are staying in a camper, so I'm kind of getting stir crazy.

[Jade Warshaw]

What about your wife? What does her financial picture as far as her credit look like?

[Caller]

She's not much better off. So when we first got together, she didn't really have any credit. And then she actually ended up losing her job due to a similar situation around the same time I did. And this was November of this past year, so her credit was slowly climbing. And then when that happened, we kind of got behind and her credit is actually a little bit lower than mine.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you guys are both working full time now?

[Caller]

I'm working full time. My wife is working part time currently. She did recently just get a job offer to work as a director for a daycare, and she'll be starting out in November, which is good news.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's great.

[George Campbell]

What will you be earning? Once with you with your cdl and once she becomes director at that daycare.

[Caller]

So I've been working now with my CDL since March. I'm currently earning about 60,000 per year. She will be earning roughly 35,000.

[George Campbell]

Good. Okay. So really the big problem here is you're feeling like the old credit is keeping you from getting in that apartment. To which I'd say, you know, if. If I were in your shoes, I'd try to avoid kind of that big box apartment system and the corporate ones.

[Jade Warshaw]

Where they just run it on the computer and they go, well, it didn't go through. Sorry, you can't rent here. I would be looking for more of like a landlord, an actual human being who can sort of look at the whole picture. And I would just be upfront with them when it runs it. You're going to say, hey, if you run the credit, here's what you're going to find. We had a foreclosure. Here's where we're at now. Here's our income. We make about 100 grand a year. We have enough to cover that. You know, they might require a higher deposit. There might be some stipulations, but if you look around long enough, you're going to find a real human being who will allow you to rent.

[Caller]

I see. And then the other thing that's kind of got me super anxious is, you know, when we're ready to purchase a home and, you know, again in a few years. I'm just so worried about how that foreclosure is going to affect me and what kind of hurdles I'm going to have to go through at that point.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you guys have debt right now?

[Caller]

We do.

So we have about 10,000 in auto loans and then there's about another 10,000 in collections currently.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So you have a ways to go. By the time you're cleaning that up, get the fully funded emergency fund, save up a down payment. That's going to be a few years from now.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And the credit will. That foreclosure will likely stay on your credit report for about seven years from my research. Does that sound about right?

[George Campbell]

That sounds right. It's kind of in that way. It's like a bankruptcy. It'll follow you around for a while, but eventually it's going to let go of you and you'll be able to kind of have that fresh start.

[Jade Warshaw]

But your credit score should improve much faster than that. So as you pay down this debt and you get rid of it, that's going to help to improve it. And within probably two years, which is a good timeline for you guys to get rid of the debt, get the emergency funds funds and work on that down payment. I think you're going to find that your credit score has drastically improved and it might even disappear by then, which could actually work in your favor. And you can go through the manual underwriting process at that point, especially if you've had 12 months of rental history, which hopefully you'll have by then. So I know it feels like, man, I mean, life has truly beat you guys down. The job losses, the foreclosure. I can just feel that you've lost your mojo. I just want you to know that three years from now, now you're going to be in a completely different place. But in the moment, it feels like this is forever. Like, how are we ever going to crawl out of this?

[Caller]

Yeah. The last few years, it's just. It felt like every day has been been a struggle. The last few years, it just feels like I'm expecting another something else, you know, more bad news to come around the corner. And that's part of why I got my cdl, because it's like, well, at least I have this, you know, I have a guaranteed way to work. And, you know, even if the job shuts down, I'll work somewhere else. It's not a Huge deal. So that, that's given me a little bit of hope. But yeah, just given the past, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Your income is going to create that stability and that stability will create a foundation for you guys to get out of this situation. So it's all going to change, man. 2026 is going to be a very different year for you guys. I'm rooting you on to get rid of the debt. I'm going to send you our allnew every dollar. It's going to help you guys find the margin, give you recommendations, coach you along the way. And I can't wait to see the progress you guys make. Keith, I'm rooting for you, man. I hope we can get you out of that camper into a more stable living situation real soon.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. It's people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance. And I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right. If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care, how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing. And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through, how am I going to pay my.

[George Campbell]

Bills, how am I going to pay next week?

[Caller]

Yeah.

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[George Campbell]

Suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much.

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[Jade Warshaw]

Anna is up next in Spokane, Washington. Anna, welcome to the Ramsey Show. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm so happy to be speaking with you guys today. Thank you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, we're happy as well. Well, what's your question?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I'm kind of having like a midlife crisis.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 50, 50 years old. My kids are grown. So I was a single mom for 23 years. I've got 18 credit cards. I've got zero debt, zero retirement. I have great credit score, no mortgage, no house. I do have 25 grand in savings and I have a good car. My problem is that I, when I was raising, I never made more than 34,000 a year. When my kids were older and Covid happened and the job market dropped, I just kept going and getting a better, better job. And they were just taking warm bodies at the time. Right. And so I'm now in a job where I almost make 70,000 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Awesome.

[Caller]

Now that the job market has switched again, the company I'm in, a tech company as a financial analyst, they're starting to lay off people. We just laid off seven people last week because they could not do their jobs. They, what's the word? I'm not able to, you know, not smart, basically, not growing with the job. And I'm afraid I fit that category. I'm afraid I'm going to get laid off. My job is incredibly stressful. I wake up in the middle of the night with panic attacks. And so I did a lot of research and what kind of job I could get with my type of hobbies, things that I do really enjoy to do. Not sitting on a computer.

[George Campbell]

Before you go to that, can I ask a question about your, your anxiety and about you being afraid that you're on that list before you go to the job search? Is that what you're hearing back in your reviews that you're not, is that what you're consistently hearing is that you're not quite hitting the mark?

[Caller]

Well, I Was so last week when we laid off those seven people, that's when I was kind of told. So it's kind of like, hey, we laid off seven people last week. And I was like, oh no, you know why? And they said, well they were not meeting them and they're under qualified for the job. And it was kind of like a, you better like catch up or do something right. You better get qualified in a.

[George Campbell]

They said. So it I want to, I, what I'm trying to find out is if you're just fearful or if something truly was said to you of hey, Anna, we're making layoffs for people who are not, you know, up to par and you're fitting that list. And so we don't want you to be one of those people. But right now you're headed down that direction. Have they said something clear to you?

[Caller]

Like it that not clear, but that was the undertone of insinuation.

[George Campbell]

Understood. Okay. And that's what's giving me the anxiety.

[Jade Warshaw]

What would it take for you to become qualified, quote unquote?

[Caller]

I don't know. I mean I, you know, I worked in admin assistant for a really long time and I kind of, you know, I got good in Excel and I worked my way up and that, but I've kind of always kind of switched and bounced around in my career. I've never really had a career career. I, I, before COVID I actually became a certified yoga teacher. I worked in hospice before an admin and I became a full time yoga teacher. I owned my own business doing indoor plants and aquariums and I worked as a hospice caregiver. I was happier then than I'd ever been in my life.

[George Campbell]

So you're saying this life, is this job sucking the life out of you?

[Caller]

Yes, absolutely. I don't sleep. I don't have because I am.

[George Campbell]

So if you want to move on, if you want to move on because the job's sucking the life out of you, that's very different from, I feel like I might not be making requirements and I'm scared I won't be able to meet these requirements. Cuz then I'd say, hey, like it's both.

[Caller]

It's both, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Even if you got the requirements, you're still like, I don't want to be doing this. And so for those reasons alone, I'd go look for something else. But I wouldn't just up and quit till today. I would keep the stability you have while looking for the next thing.

[Caller]

Yes. And so, and that's where, you know, I have a lot of conflicting information from advice from other people. And that's why I was calling you guys today, because I, like I said, I did a lot of research on what type of job I could get that, you know, pays anything. And, you know, then I'm looking at, like, getting student loans. If I wanted to become like OTA or a physical therapist assistant, you know, that maybe I can, you know, the top end of that is 70,000, so I maybe start around 50,000, which I don't want to go down in salary.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you can't really afford to at this point. You told us you have no retirement whatsoever.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So it's all up to you.

[Caller]

Yeah, my rent keeps going up. So what I did find was a estate manager or like a live in nature Miami type situation where I could actually start at around 80,000 a year and have all of my living expenses covered.

[Jade Warshaw]

Amazing you could shovel money into retirement at that point.

[George Campbell]

And you like kids? Other people's kids?

[Caller]

You do. I. Not only do I love kids, but I also have a son on the spectrum. And, you know, it's funny because I thought, well, maybe I'm not really qualified to do that because I don't have, like an early education child childhood certification or something. And. Well, you do have 23 years experience of raising kids and also having, you know, a kid with special needs or.

[George Campbell]

I'd rather that than somebody with a piece of paper.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I think. I think you're so focused on what am I qualified for. I want you to start focusing on what am I wired to do and what lights me up. Because we. I couldn't care less if I'm hiring you as my estate manager. What's your resume? Do you have a college degree? I'm like, how are you with my kids? Can I trust you? You. It's all about integrity and work ethic and would you treat my family and my house like I would?

[George Campbell]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so I think this is a great next step for you. And even if it's not the thing for the next 10 years, it sounds like you're just fired up about making that shift. And is this, like, offer on the table, you could go take it tomorrow?

[Caller]

I. It's not, but I did. You know, the other thing is I live in Spokane, Washington, and my mom is in the Seattle area and she's getting older, so I'd like to. To be closer to her, but it's a lot. You know, the living expenses are a lot more there. But I did find agency that you Know, helps you as a nanny to find a job. And there are several jobs, high paying jobs in Seattle area that are 80.

[Jade Warshaw]

Grand live in, expenses covered.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Great.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'd be exploring that. Getting interviews, putting your best foot forward.

[Caller]

Yeah. They even provide like a car and insurance. Insurance, health insurance, a phone. So I would just have, you know, clothing basically as my expense. And then of course like seeing my kids, you know, maybe I'd fly them over.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think you've answered your question.

[George Campbell]

It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into. You've. You kind of like started the dreaming phase of it, which is. Yeah, I think you're really into this. The only caveat. Yeah. Is don't quit your current job until you have the offer and a start date. Like you know that this other thing is happening. Otherwise you could really jack yourself.

[Jade Warshaw]

And have they been doing severance packages with the layoffs?

[Caller]

They have.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. That'll give you even more breathing room if it does happen. There's a silver lining there that you've got some cushion.

[Caller]

Yeah, I do have a three bedroom home. I, you know, I need to get rid of everything and then that's my next step is like trying to decide what to keep and what to put in storage. I already found I can get a storage unit for about 2000 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why even keep the storage unit unit? I'd be on Facebook Marketplace this entire weekend just listing stuff.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's hard for me. I, you know, I have some sentimental things I'm attached to and I think mostly it would just be like keeping Christmas decorations.

[George Campbell]

My kids are little. Yes. Keep that.

[Caller]

Yeah. So I mean it's, it wouldn't be much, but just something too. Because my, my goal would be if, if this does work out that you know, maybe I would buy like a tiny home or something in four or five years and that way I could, if I don't, you know, do that, then I would say, okay, the storage unit has to go. Kind of put a time limit on like, you know, okay, kids, you know, take your Christmas decorations or, you know, or if I had a tiny home that I could, you know, certainly move all my things into my home. Yeah. So I like the idea.

[George Campbell]

I like where you're headed. I like the idea you can got a clear idea for what you want to do. Being a live in nanny, it provides the income above what you were earning before and to George's point, it gives you the time to start investing 15% and you have the goal of one day. Yeah, I want to put A down payment on a house. And I want to pay, live in a paid for house. I don't know if I'd go for a tiny house, but you get the idea.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good luck.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, serious question, hard question. If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on? How would they pay the mortgage? How would they afford groceries? Here's the deal. If anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. The next question, how do you choose from all the options out there? Because the truth is there's a lot of garbage options out there out there. It's simple. Life insurance has one job to replace your income if you die, not your baby's income. They don't need life insurance. You don't need whole life insurance or permanent life insurance. You just need term life insurance. It's the only kind that does that. It does that. One thing only replaces your income if you die. The other is like whole life, permanent life. They try to add in investing and they end up doing a terrible job at both. And you only need life insurance while someone depends on you financially. So if you're like most people, you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your annual income, income for a term length of 15 to 20 years. Because think about that. If you follow the Ramsey Baby steps, 15 or 20 years from now, you are completely debt free house and everything you've been investing for likely over a decade, you've got a great nest egg and it should be a level term policy, meaning the premium stays the same. It's 50 bucks a month for that 20 year period. So if you want more info and resources on this, you can use our free term life insurance guide. Just go to ramseysolutions.com term lifeguide or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. All right, Dalia is up next in Chicago. What's going on?

[Caller]

Dalia, Hi. So I'm just calling to see about. Do you guys have any ideas on how to find money for an adoption?

[George Campbell]

Oh, wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right. What led you guys to this spot?

[Caller]

Yes, my husband and I have been married almost 10 years. We have two biological daughters. Before we had them, we had been told we might not be able to have kids. And that was something we kind of prayed about and really felt God put on our hearts to grow our family through adoption. So we had our two bio kids. And then still through all of that, we've really felt like this is something God wants us to do. And yeah, so it's been about five years. We're on the. Waiting for a match. And then just about. About a month ago, we got a call that we got matched with a birth mom. And she's due. Yeah, she's due in the next, like, week.

[George Campbell]

Oh, gosh. So this is coming fast. I don't know. So you'll have to educate me a little here. What's it cost? What's it cost to adopt?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, you broke up on Italia, right? At the juicy part. Are you with us still?

[Caller]

Hello?

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, there we go.

[George Campbell]

We're here. Did you hear my question, Dalia?

[Caller]

Yes. So we're right about the average, which is 40,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And this is in two weeks. So what do you have laying around, money wise? Like, what do you. What assets do you have?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we have our house, our home. We still owe about 320,000 on it. And then we had our savings, which we had about 30,000 or, like 20, 27. So we paid already 12,000, like, deposits that have been requested. As, you know, the date gets closer.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

So we've paid about 12 of our own savings. And then we had a big sale at church and raised about 4. And then a few family members giving us some money as well. So we're about at, I think, close to, like, 20 that we still need. Need.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so how much do you have now? Yeah, like, in things you can liquidate that you could use toward this.

[Caller]

I. I mean, other than the house, I don't know.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you have nothing in savings?

[George Campbell]

I thought you said you had 30,000 in savings.

[Caller]

Yes. So we have about, like, 16 and a half left. Because we also have to pay. She's in a different state than us, so we have to pay to fly there, stay there for three weeks at least for all the legal process. So that's like Airbnb car rental. So that's been coming out of our savings as.

[George Campbell]

So let me. Let me recap this to make sure I'm. I'm tracking with you. Did you tell me it was. Forget the. The Airbnb stay stuff, but just the adoption? You said it's 40,000. And did you tell me you've already paid 12, so you only owe 28?

[Caller]

Yes. And then we've raised some money through church and family.

[George Campbell]

Well, let's walk.

[Caller]

Walk.

[George Campbell]

Walk slowly with me. So you said 4,000 from church, so now you're at 24. Is that correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And then we still haven't touched your. Your. Did the 12,000 come from your original 27 that you had saved?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now I'm how much are you down to across your checking and savings accounts?

[George Campbell]

Should be 15.

[Caller]

Yeah. Like 16. Five, I think around there.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so we're about 10,000 off, right? Does that sound right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. What do you still owe versus what you have?

[Caller]

So we still owe the 20. 20,000. About 20,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And you have 16 and a half.

[George Campbell]

$3,500 short than I had. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

That'S, that's the math we're trying to solve right now is where $3,500 short. And we need this money in two weeks, you said, or when is it actually due? Is all of it due in two weeks?

[Caller]

Yes. So it's all due when the papers are signed. And we, because that's all we really have. Obviously, if we have no choice, we will, but we're trying to figure out if they there was like a loan or something because we obviously have, you know, small kids and we're a young family and we want to make sure we have emergency fund.

[George Campbell]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you have a community around you. You've got friends, family, church. And you've tapped into that a little bit.

[George Campbell]

You said there's a GoFundMe. There's a GoFundMe.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And okay, so I, I, I would go to all extents to not take out a loan for this. And I don't know if that's you guys reminding people of the story that you're trying to accomplish here with this adoption through the GoFundMe and trying to kind of amp that up a little bit.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now that there's a timeline, I think people get more excited. Whether it's a child or anything else on the horizon. When you go, guys, we've been placed. I'm sending an update to everyone I know. I'm writing letters to my neighbors, to my church, to my family. Family. We are on the cusp of this and we are so close to our goal, but we're just so short. I feel like my heart just goes, oh my gosh. I want to give, I want to be a part of this. Like, we're at the finish line here at the marathon. So I would do everything in my power to do all of that while doing side hustles for the next two weeks, while selling everything I can that's not tied down everything. Like, act like this is the 3, 500 debt that must be paid in the next two weeks.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Cuz this, I mean, really what's on. This gets you your baby, you know, this gets you your family member. So I'm like, nothing's off the table. I mean, I'm not selling the house, but nothing's off the table. You know what I'm saying? Like, so I. I would go ham on this. And then there's also, I don't know. We didn't ask you your income, but how much margin do you have at the end of every month after you've paid your bills and everything?

[Caller]

About 2,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So that's. I would be saying this whole Airbnb thing and bringing this can't. This needs to cost us $2,000 like this stay where you need to figure this out. Does somebody have a house that can.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let us stay, crash there, or use their Airbnb for free because of what we're trying to do here? This ain't no vacation. We're trying to get our baby home.

[George Campbell]

This is when you take to social. You take to social media and you make sure everybody knows this story and what you're trying to do, and you're on a tight time crunch and see if people get generous. And I'd be doing everything so that I don't have to take out debt because. Because this is something that's supposed to be exciting and joy filled, and debt just has a way of putting a damper on stuff like that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I can't in good faith tell you just go take out a loan. I think it's going to make it all the more sweet and joyful when you guys cash flow this whole thing and you write that final check and you just get to go home and focus on that baby.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, listen, Send me the GoFundMe.

[Jade Warshaw]

Put me on DM it to Jade. She's on it.

[Caller]

Okay, thank you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Nobody else, though. Don't get any ideas, guys. Don't be dming jade all your GoFundMe.

[George Campbell]

Listen, I remember. It's Dahlia from Chicago.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you're not Dalia, keep scrolling. Okay. That's so exciting. We're so happy for you, Dalia. This is a very exciting time and you guys have done a great job getting prepared and what a wonderful thing. You know, the. The world, it's a dark place. And you get calls like Dahlia, and they're wanting to adopt.

[George Campbell]

Really great.

[Jade Warshaw]

They had two wonderful bio kids and they're going, you know what? We just want to get in there, take care of another little baby who might need some love and support.

[George Campbell]

So good.

[Jade Warshaw]

A beautiful thing.

[George Campbell]

And yeah, a couple calling for sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

100. And I would be tapping back into that church. I mean, I would have zero shame at this point.

[George Campbell]

0 no shame in that game.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's. This is not a selfish thing you're doing.

[George Campbell]

No, that's why I said take to the interwebs. Get in there. Tell the story, people.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'd be fine in Facebook story, Reddit threads. I'd be tweeting, xing, Instagramming, and the timeline too.

[George Campbell]

Like, we only have 10 days left.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like, yeah, we're gonna get this thing done. D I can't wait. Thank you for sharing the story. Rooting for you. All right, that puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back, so make good decisions. Until then, don't go anywhere.

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[Caller]

Again.

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[Jade Warshaw]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. And the number to call is 888-825-5225. If you want to join the conversation and pose your question for the good of the group and for the good of America, Chris has chosen to do that. He's in Washington. What's going on, Chris?

[Caller]

Hi, guys.

Thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

So my wife and I, we're new parents. While relatively new. Our son's nine months old. Super. We made the decision to have her stay home because daycare was too expensive. And we're just trying to figure out if you guys have any tips and tricks to, you know, managing our money going forward and making sure that we're setting ourselves up for success in retirement and setting him up for college and all that good stuff.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. So what was she making before she decided to stay home?

[Caller]

She was making about 75,000 a year.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and what do, what do you make?

[Caller]

I currently make 110 roughly annually. And then I have a side Business that I run that brings in anywhere from 20 to 45 a year.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so we'll just say that you're at 130. You feel good about that?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And so have you guys done a new every dollar budget with this 130? Because how much does that allow you to take home every month?

[Caller]

You know, that's, that's been really, really new for us. And so, you know, if I had to put a number on it, I mean, our board, we have our mortgage, we have no other consumer debt. We've done a really, really good job, got all of our vehicles paid off and everything like that. And so, you know, our mortgage is roughly 2,400amonth. And then living expenses, you know, add another, you know, 300.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I don't think your mortgage is going to be the problem. I think clarity.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm wondering. It sounds like you have like a little bit of regret. Like, should we have done this? Things feel tight. So where is that coming from?

[Caller]

Yeah, I just, I'm, I'm so analytical when it comes to like looking at our budget. And we've, you know, both worked really, really hard coming out of, you know, roughly $95,000 in student loans debt, you know, over the past three years. And you know, we've, we've just worked really, really hard. And I don't ever want to put our family in a place where we're in, in need for money, you know what I mean? And we've done a really, really good job of that. We have a bunch of money put aside already, you know, and so you're.

[Jade Warshaw]

Following the baby steps to a T. Yeah, pretty.

[Caller]

I mean, I would say so.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, you said that, but you didn't answer the question when I said how much you're bringing home every month.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. I mean, we bring home probably, let's see, 40. No, 6,800amonth, roughly.

[George Campbell]

So I'm going to challenge you after. I'm going to challenge you to, for your own good. Because you described yourself in one way, and don't get me wrong, it probably was the way that you were before you had an eight months month old. You said, I'm very analytical and I'm really on this. But the truth is right now you're actually not on your numbers. You're kind of guessing at them. And I have a theory that the reason that you're feeling that, that tightness or that feeling of like you don't like the way your money is feeling, I think it's more because you don't know exactly what's going on and you don't have a clear path and plan for it. That's why I asked about your, your every dollar budget. Because if you, if you look at that tonight with your wife, once baby's down, once you guys have, you know, had something to eat and you say, okay, we're going to look at every dollar tonight. We're going to plug in our numbers, we're going to log on HR and find out exactly what the check is. And now we're going to plug in the mortgage, everything we think we're spending money on. What does life look like now with an 8 month old? How much are we spending on diapers now versus when the baby was first born? All of those things are going to give you a much clearer picture on what it looks like today. Today with the new lifestyle that you're in today. And I think that's actually going to help you because 130,000 where you live, I think you should be okay. Now don't get me wrong, to lose 75,000 a year is a lot of money. But that lead, that actually led me to my other point of it's just one baby. Right?

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And you're telling me that it costs $75,000 a year to daycare one baby. That's not true.

[Caller]

No, no, it wasn't much of that. It was, you know, more so. You know, I want A, right, it was expensive to do daycare and B, for the, for the amount of money it was going to cost us. You know, she wanted to stay home and wanted to raise our son and.

[George Campbell]

Which is fine. That's fine. But the way you framed it was it wasn't worth it for her to go to work. You made it seem like it was more of a cost thing. So it's just personal values.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess. Yeah, you're right.

[George Campbell]

And that's fine. I think all of that though, what I'm trying to get you to is clarity. And I think if you can clearly say we're doing this because we value mom being at home with baby, that is a whole different conversation than it's too expensive. We can't afford daycare. Right. So now you're talking about real things, which is, no, this is a value of ours, which, knowing that is also going to reflect how you feel now about the budget being shown shorter because you've said no. In our hearts, we want this. So now we are able to tackle a smaller budget or working with a smaller income. Do you see what I'm saying, I'm just trying to get real. I mean, George, you know how it feels to have an eight month old at the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, you're not a newborn, a two year old. Life is chaotic. And that's where you and your wife sitting down, looking at the budget every month and just going, okay, I'm gonna bring seven grand in this month and our mortgage is 2400. We're gonna have a thousand left over. What are we gonna do do with this? And for you guys? You already have the emergency fund.

[Caller]

Yes, we do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you investing 15% out of every paycheck?

[Caller]

We are.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And then beyond that, how much margin would you say you have at the end of every month or is it disappearing into random spending?

[Caller]

I would say more disappearing into random spending.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what's making you feel out of control because you're analytical. You're going, the math ain't mathing. There should be two grand laying around and it's gone. And it's amazing. If you like to take all the receipts of all the money you spent, it'll make a little bitty book of the reasons why we feel that way. And so that's where budgeting with the new every dollar with your bank connected, the transactions are flowing in total transparency and accountability with you and your wife. And then you might decide, oh, you know what, yeah, we need to be spending more. Because she's like, dude, I'm spending it on things the family needs. We just need to up the budget line item to account for that. Instead of going red flag, red flag, you're over, over budget. So I think I, there's probably just some discongruity with like what you're actually spending versus what you think you're spending.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, your life has changed a lot. And I mean there's the kid and then there's, yeah, wife is at home. Money wise, things have changed. And it's just like George said, reflecting your, your, your line items to. Updating your line items to reflect that change.

[Caller]

Yep. No, I appreciate that a lot and that's something that we've actually embarked on recently is kind of combining our finances, just listening to you guys, guys and kind of buying into that, buying into that idea of, you know, becoming a unit, you know, and, and we're, you know, working through those things. And so I, I really appreciate the feedback.

[George Campbell]

I love it. I think you're doing a great job and I think that you're, you're doing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Better than you think.

[George Campbell]

Uh huh. And you're a Reflection of the fact that this whole thing is a process. Like no one just in one day or in one listen or in one movement gets it all. It is like building blocks stacking on each other. And like you said, first we did the combined finance thing, then we did the debt payoff thing. All of that is stacking up. And I think you're doing fabulous.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you using a spreadsheet right now or are you using a budgeting app?

[Caller]

Yeah, we're using, we're using a spreadsheet because that's, that's.

[Jade Warshaw]

How many times has she said, hey, can I look at that budget spreadsheet? That sounds fun.

[Caller]

Zero.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you. Final answer. Your honor, I. Case closed on that.

[George Campbell]

We're gonna send you the brand new, all new every dollar for you to have something that not only would a wife like to look at, but now she doesn't have to say, can I see that spreadsheet?

[Jade Warshaw]

You can just say she'll open the app.

[George Campbell]

She'll open her own app and be able to see it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Here we go. That'll help get her on board. On top of combining finances. Proud of you guys. You're making progress, man. That's all you can hope for.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[George Campbell]

Hey guys.

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[Jade Warshaw]

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[George Campbell]

When you were saying that M&M's lose yourself was playing, when you were like, you've just got this one chance, I was like, I heard the music in my head.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's the most jade thing I can think think of. There's worse songs. You get stuck in your head.

[George Campbell]

Oh, boy.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm sorry, mom spaghetti. What can you do?

[George Campbell]

I know.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, let's go to Indiana. Ann joins us there. And welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hi, thanks for taking my call.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure.

[Caller]

My quick question is I'm in my.

Early 60s, recently divorced, I am dead debt free, but I'm used to supplementing my income versus living off on my own income. So my income is about 40,000 a year and so I'm renting right now. I found this apartment that I can afford and just trying to decide for.

My future should I consider purchasing or.

Just continue to rent? You know, I know the difference. You know, something breaks here, they help pay for it versus being a homeowner and all those expenses.

[George Campbell]

So there's no debt. Do you have any assets? Do you have any money anywhere? Retirement?

[Caller]

Yeah. So I have like 150k in retirement.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

I've got my emergency fund of 10k and then I have another 45k liquid that I have access to. I've got a paid for car which is dependable. It's going to last me for years.

[George Campbell]

Good.

[Caller]

I do have grandma inheritance. I lost her this past year, but I have about 380,000 there.

[George Campbell]

Great. Okay.

[Caller]

So I just don't know, you know? Yeah, I think gonna work another five or seven years.

[George Campbell]

Okay, great.

[Jade Warshaw]

What are you paying in rent.

[Caller]

Right now?

My monthly expenses are about 1800. When I have, when I consider rent, all the utilities, Internet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good.

[George Campbell]

I like the idea.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ann.

[George Campbell]

What a reasonable house for someone you know of your needs. What does that cost you? Because you seem like a reasonable lady who would give me a good answer.

[Caller]

Or accurate answer if I just got.

A simple like a starter home or.

Even a condo in a townhouse. Yeah.

In our area I'm probably looking at hopefully just under 200,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I, I love that as a goal for you and I think that it's 100% within your reach considering you've already got a decent amount saved. You've got 45 liquid that's not really earmarked for anything and you can continue to add to that over time to put put down the down payment or maybe that is enough of a down payment to get you where you want to be. You can log on to our home calculator and we'll put the link to that in the show notes for you. But see what it would take to put the write down payment on. Of course we don't want it to be any more than 25% of your take home. And then from there, if you do say my budget's 200,000 and then I'm going to work for however many extra years to pay this off. I think you could do that. And if you got to the point point where it's seven or eight years later and it's still not quite paid off, you could reach into that inherited money and that retirement fund that's been growing all this time and has likely doubled and you could just reach in and take the rest of it out and pay off the remainder after seven years. Do you like that plan?

[Caller]

I've toyed with that idea.

I just worry about, you know, goes out if it needs a roof. You know, I don't know that I'm financially going to be in a place to feel comfortable taking care of all those.

[George Campbell]

Well, George can walk you through the numbers on that because you've got, you've got a good start here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You can cash flow any repairs and expenses. You'll have homeowners insurance to cover the big stuff. And so you're really worried about those, those little things and kind of just maintenance and repairs which isn't going to be, you know, 25 grand a year. So I would buy a smart house that's not in disrepair. You don't need to go buy a fixer up. Oh yeah, I would buy something that's maybe, maybe it's a little bit newer and you know it's going to have less repairs and less ongoing maintenance. You know, it's not like a 1950s bungalow that you got to keep up with. But I like the idea. Here's an option. If you paid cash for a $200,000 home today, you would still have like 220 grand left over that you could invest, correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

So if you invested that on top of your 150, if you were able and willing to work until like 6:70, you'd have 750 grand as a little nest egg for you on top of having no mortgage that whole time. So you could even. That's without you adding a dime to your investments outside of grandma's inheritance plus your 150 that you have. So I'm just trying to show you kind of the full picture of what your trade offs are here. Because the other thing is homes are going to be more expensive if you wait five years. So that $200,000 home is probably now worth 275.

[George Campbell]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so it's a moving target. And I'd like to stabilize your biggest fixed expense which is housing. And you can do that by buying a house. Now you're always going to have homeowners insurance, property taxes. Those will always be ticking up slowly over time. But you'll have the cushion to stomach that. And I also want to go, how can we get you making more money than 40,000 at your age with your experience, what are you doing for work?

[Caller]

Well, I retired from my full time career but I'm doing more of a medical assistant work. It was just something took time off to tend to my grandmother while she was ill and so I was you know, not working for several years. So getting back in the game in the medical field, which is just something I chose to change from. I used to be crisis social work.

[Jade Warshaw]

So yeah, you seem like person who has like your heart is just to help people take care of people. That's who you are and you can make good money doing that. So I just to want, want to tell you you don't need to just settle and go, well this is all I can get at my age.

[George Campbell]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

I would go, what are the caretaking type jobs that I could get that I'm able to do.

[George Campbell]

And what will have you run it out? What will your, I'm guessing you're waiting to take obviously take your Social Security. What will it be when you take it?

[Caller]

When I take it then it's going to be about gosh, what was it? Three over a little over 3,000amonth.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So you'll have that coming into on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Top of whatever nest egg you've built. So I feel good that you're going to be able to sustain your live a very frugal life it seems. So if you can keep your expenses low like you have been, I think getting a house in the near future, I mean you have the money to do it and pay cash. That's, that's what I would do personally and then invest anything left over.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you working with a financial advisor right now to help you plan all, all this out?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah I am.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good.

[Caller]

I'm just trying to decide on, on a.

Should I just Can.

I'm going to continue to rent for a year.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

So that I, you know, just because. What's that changing thing? Well, after a big life change, I don't want to make a decision.

[George Campbell]

I understand. That's. That's wise. Yeah, that's very wise.

[Caller]

So it's a year lease. So I'm going to stay here at least a year rent. And then I'm happy. I'm happy where I am.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good.

[Caller]

And I can make it work financially. I am taking care of myself.

Yeah, you are.

I was scared I couldn't do that.

[George Campbell]

I would just caution you not to get too comfortable in that rental phase because George is so right. You want to stabilize that line item as you age. You don't, you know, it's hard to control prices of rent and all that. So that's a flux, fluctuating thing. And we want to get you stability. So while I think it's great for you to stay there for the year, run out your lease, like you said, get a handle on what this new life looks like, but don't get so comfortable that you forget about the dream and the stability of owning your own home.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's good wisdom. How old was your grandma when she passed?

[Caller]

92.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, and those genetics play out. You got another 30 years at least on this earth if you just do what grandma did. And so again, 30 years from now, who knows what rent will be? I want to get you in something that you can call your own, that stabilizes and gets rid of that payment every month. We're rooting for you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2020 26. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th and early bird prices start at 749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets [e-mail].

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? Well, we've got a way for you to check. You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a permanent personalized plan built just for you. Simply head to the show notes on this episode, click on the link titled are you on track with the baby steps? And complete the quiz. Nick is up next in Austin, Texas. Nick, what's going on.

[Caller]

Hey, George and Jade, thank you for taking my call.

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

I, I, So at the start of this year I had a wake up call when I tried to take out another personal loan to pay for my shortages on my personal property taxes. I also took a little bit extra for a trip, but I realized I had no money to live on because I had promised it all away with no interest or personal loans. That's where I found you, George, specifically. And with a little bit of time, I started following the Ramsey plan. I started working 60 hours a week and did that from mid February to mid August. I have a pack to get like a gazelle, like Ramsey teaches. And I can see myself debt free from my home and everything in five years. But my question is, I'm tired, I'm exhausted now. How do I keep going and moving past this, this point right now where I feel like it's never going to end?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, man, I'm proud of you. You've already made some serious progress and big changes in your life and I'm glad you had that wake up call this year. What's your, what's your debt remaining?

[Caller]

So I started the year with 82,000, roughly 82,500 in non home debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Mm.

[Caller]

Today I'm at about 50,500.

[George Campbell]

Wow. Way to go.

[Jade Warshaw]

You knocked out 30 grand so far and you're like, dude, I'm not even halfway there. How am I going to finish this race?

[Caller]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

What's your income? What have you been earning during this time?

[Caller]

So my take home pay or my not take home. But my I guess gross is I make 75,000 to be here.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And.

[Caller]

So if I break that down, that's about, I didn't mean to cut you off, but 2200, 2200 every two weeks. So 4400amonth.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And are you doing summer house?

[Caller]

No, but I was doing overtime.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so my take home pay was like 7,500amonth.

[George Campbell]

Wow, great.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you're saying you can't keep up with that pace? What, what pace would you say, Hey, I can keep up with this for another year and a half If I do 50 hours instead of 60.

[Caller]

That's what everyone keeps telling me. I'm in the mindset of like it's all or nothing. And so I think that's where I'm getting like defeated at.

[George Campbell]

I get that I'm an all or nothing type of person myself. But the truth, the truth is if you get to that wall, you're gonna have to. Here's the options. All or nothing is I get to the wall, which sounds like you're at now, and I just stop. And then if I stop, that means I didn't accomplish my goal, that means I didn't do what I set out to do. And then I feel terrible about that. Right. So it's, it's important that you figure out how to be a person who can meet in the middle and say, here's what I can do. Here's the most I can do in this season, and then here's the most I can do in this season. And here's what makes sense for me this season. So you've had what I'm gonna call, you know, however many months, six, eight months of all out sprinting. And now you're like, you know what, I just need to jog a little bit for a while. Let me jog. And then maybe that looks like to George's point. Yeah, going down to 50 hours. And then you might get your wind back and then you're ready to sprint again. Do you see how that works?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And I think that's what's gonna happen because you're still gonna realize and get the feeling of, oh my gosh, this debt is going down. I'm making extra payments. You're still gonna get that high, you're still gonna get that dose dopamine hit, but you're also gonna, you know, keep your sanity intact at the same time. And I'm telling you, that number is going to get to a point that 50 at some point is going to get to 20 or 30 and you're going to want to sprint again.

[Jade Warshaw]

You'll see some light at the end of the tunnel. And the other thing I would encourage you to do, Nick, spread out the sacrifice. So maybe it's not all overtime. Maybe I'm willing to cut my expenses in this area and that creates the same amount of margin so I can keep up the progress I was throwing at the debt. So have you looked at all of your expenses and done a pretty brutal, judicious audit of like, hey, I don't need this. I can live without this. On top of, I can make more by doing this.

[Caller]

So I, I have a. I. George, I purchased your book like a month ago. Then I purchased the audiobook because I like listening to the book that you, that you wrote by Tambouri. I. I started, I think just a couple days ago. I want you. You did a free trial for the every dollar. There you go. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And so I logged in and I've been trying to incorporate it, but I do an Excel sheet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Have you used the all new Every Dollar? Like with the coaching recommendations? Recommendations? We just launched that. I think that's going to be your ticket to give you a little fuel because there's so many and you can read. I have a chapter in the book called Margin is Breathing Room where I lay out a whole bunch of ideas. Well now the all new Every Dollar does that for you and it's personalized based on what you have told us in your situation, your life and what you're willing and able to do. So I think that's going to really help you on this journey. But I want to encourage you, this is a normal, normal feeling. You're gonna hit that wall where you're like, dude, I can't keep going. And then you're gonna go look at the numbers, find some new ideas, do some new recommendations and it's gonna give you a second win like Jade said.

[Caller]

And also your book, the Margins of Error is our Breathing room is chapter 12. Yeah, I'm still on chapter eight.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, I don't want to give it away. I don't want to give it away. Everyone dies in the end. No, I'm just kidding. Oh God, that would be wild. That's how I ended the book. Nobody dies. Only people find financial freedom. That's it. Hey, thanks so much for the call, man. I love to hear the progress and how our stuff is helping you get to the path on debt freedom.

[George Campbell]

He's talking about real things though. It's, it's. The truth is it is, it's difficult to sustain a certain intensity over lengths of time. And the longer the length of time for you listening, the harder it can be. Some people, I mean we see on average, yeah, it's usually about a two year span, you can knock it out, but some people are on a longer, you know, course on this. Three years, four years for Sam and I was seven and a half years and whatever. Whenever that moment hits, the option is never to stop. You can change the intensity at which you're going. And to George's point, you can start to find trade offs and other places in the budget. Another thing I like to do, George, is especially if you're a person who's side hustling and you're like, if I deliver, you know, one more pizza or one more instacart, I'm to going to scream, okay, quit that side hustle and get a new one. You know what I mean? Because there's always the side hustle that you dread and that you hate. And even if it might be making a lot of money, just put it on break for a while and do something else. So really get creative to keep things fresh in your mind. And another thing. Yeah. If you need to scale it back and jog for a little while, that is okay. You're still making progress. The point is, making progress is not excuses. It's one thing if you make an excuse and you stop. It's another thing if you're like, hey, this is really happening and I just need to slow down a little bit. Totally fine. I will never fault anybody or yell at anybody for that.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I love that. And what you got to think about this. What's more exhausting living how you've been living for the next 10 years or just sticking it out for a year or two of grind where you're like, oh, my goodness. Because at least you're making progress. The other one is just mediocrity and giving up.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you don't look at the baby steps as a pass fail. Where it's like, if I don't go all in, then I'm not doing it at all. I'm going to hey wall. If you get a B plus and you become debt free, but it took you six months longer than you wanted it to, dude, you still won the.

[George Campbell]

Like, you did it right. You did right. Meanwhile, some people are on the treadmill and they're just walking at a breezy 3.3. And I'm like, you need to click up the treadmill and see, like yourself, sprint.

[Jade Warshaw]

They've got a bunch of savings. They could pay off the debt. I'm going to keep my match with the employer. I'm not going to cut my investing.

[George Campbell]

Not even breaking a sweat. Some of y' all need to break a sweat.

[Jade Warshaw]

Jade's out here judging you. I just want you to know, Ramsay ish. Get out of here.

[George Campbell]

Get out of here.

[Jade Warshaw]

That was a pretty awful accent. I got us. I expected more.

[George Campbell]

Get out of here.

[Jade Warshaw]

The more you do it, the worse it's getting. And I like it.

[George Campbell]

What if I go up octaves?

[Caller]

Get out of here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Actually got better. You got older and more curmudgeonly, which made it hit an a different way. I appreciate that.

[George Campbell]

Only you could have brought that out. George.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thanks for playing. This is the Ramsey show, our scripture of the day. Proverbs 11, 24, 25. One person gives freely, yet gains even more. Another withholds unduly but comes to poverty. A generous person will prosper Whoever refreshes as others will be refreshed. Paul Stanley of Kiss said, charity is not an option. It's an obligation. Left field quote from Paul Stanley, but we'll take it.

[George Campbell]

Not what I would expect.

[Jade Warshaw]

The sentiment rings true. All right. Ann is in South Carolina. Up next, and welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Thank you. Thank you for taking my phone call. I am seven. I'm 71 years old. Old, retired. My husband passed away last year. I still owe on the home of 114,000. I do have money in an IRA account. People are telling me, no, don't pay the house off. But I am taking money from that account every month to make the payment. So I'm afraid I will run out of money over time. So I don't know what to do. Should I pay the house off? The interest rate is 1.99% or just keep taking away from my IRA account?

[George Campbell]

How much is in the IRA.

[Caller]

Total with money market IRA? Some gold and silver. 327,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

How are you living right now? You're needing to make the payment with the IRA money. Do you have other income?

[Caller]

I do. I have Social Security.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much is that?

[Caller]

It's 3300.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what's that mortgage payment every month around 1400. Okay, so let's.

[Caller]

Taxes and everything.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So if you paid off the mortgage, you would free up the principal and interest. So it's not going to be all 1400. Would it be closer to a thousand?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Because you still got to pay insurance and taxes and all that. Good, good stuff.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you free up $1,000, which means you don't need to tap into the IRA, but you've depleted the IRA down to. Let's do the numbers for you here. Down to 213,000 if you paid it off today. So the question is, could you still live a full life and have a great retirement with your Social Security plus 213,000 in the IRA that you now don't need to touch?

[Caller]

Well, that's. That's the question.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So that. Well, if you don't need to touch it, then the money's just going to sit there and grow. I would caution you to not keep it in money markets. And gold and silver, I would have it in the market working for you to at least beat inflation.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so you can work with it. You have a financial advisor that you trust right now?

[Caller]

I do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And he. He was telling me to move everything, or at least want to have in the money market over to where he is and let him Put it and.

[Jade Warshaw]

Actually invested for you.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. You said you're 71, and so if we ran the numbers out by the age of 80, if you just let that 213 sit there, you'd have over half a million dollars in that nest egg if you didn't touch it.

[Caller]

Oh, that would be good.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you're saying you're just gonna live off Social Security, but you have no mortgage payment and you're okay with that? You're still gonna do all the things you want to do?

[Caller]

Well, probably not, but I'm. I'm to the point that I've done pretty much everything I want to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

My thing is you're not skydiving or anything.

[Caller]

Fun.

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you have an emergency fund?

[Caller]

I have some. Very little though. About 6,007.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I would pull some from that money market and keep it in a high yield savings and keep it liquid and maybe have $20,000 as your emergency fund to just protect you from all the things that could happen in your life. The home maintenance and repairs and all that stuff.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

What's your health like?

[Caller]

It's pretty good. I do a little part time job, but it's not, you know, okay.

[George Campbell]

That's what I was getting to. I was getting to. Maybe having a little part time job would also help supplement at the 30, what is it, 3,300 that you're getting from social and that way.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

You know, that's just giving you a little bit more pad. Like George says, you have that emergency fund. I really like that plan for you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because even if you took, let's say you took $1,000 a month from that IRA, you're likely never going to run out of money. If you do that, it's going to grow faster than you're depleting it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so I just think the piece that comes with having a paid for mortgage at your age is worth it, regardless of the spread you could have made. Because your friends are like, well, you have a low mortgage, you could just leave the money invested. You're way better off. Don't ever pay off that mortgage. Well, they don't pay your bills and so I'm not going to give them the 100% voting stock in your life. I would do what you feel is best for you, not just financially, but for you emotionally and spiritually. And for me, that's not owing one any money and having more freedom. And you're likely going to be okay. You're not destitute, you don't have debt, debt payments. You Have a very low, you know, cost of living right now. And I would say you're going to be. I mean, you can crunch the numbers with your financial advisor. This is just a guy doing napkin math on a podcast. But it looks like you're going to have a full and wonderful life paying off that mortgage and leaving the money invested. Now, the key is invested. If you leave it in savings, it could get depleted while you're still on this earth.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

But if you take that 213 and invest it in the stock market, what we have seen over the last, you know, 50 years is about a 10%, 11% return. And so your money would double about every seven years if you do that. Hence my numbers of having half a million dollars if you just left it alone.

[Caller]

Okay, well, that's. To me, I feel like you're. You know, it would give me relief that this is paid for. I don't have to worry about it.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love it. And I tell you this like you were my mom. This is the same advice I would give to my own mother if she could. Called in. And so I'm wishing you the best. You've done a really good job. I'm so sorry for the loss of your husband. How long were you guys married?

[Caller]

Thank you. 30.

Wow.

30 years. Yeah, it was. It was not expected. So sorry. It was.

[George Campbell]

What was his name?

[Caller]

Like his.

[George Campbell]

I'm sorry, what was his name?

[Caller]

Michael.

[Jade Warshaw]

Michael. Sweet. Well. And I'm. I'm rooting for you in retirement, even if it's not the picture you had. You've. You've done a good job preparing for that, the future. And I hope that you have a wonderful, long life ahead of you and a great retirement. Let's move on to Alex in Raleigh, North Carolina. What's going on, Alex?

[Caller]

Hey, George and Jade. I appreciate you guys talking to me. How are you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure.

[Caller]

We're doing great calling today because my wife and I, we're. We're longtime Ramsey listeners. We're on baby steps six and seven. The only debt that we have is our mortgage.

[George Campbell]

Awesome.

[Caller]

And call today because, you know, we have paid for vehicles with cash flow house improvements, and my wife has decided that she wants to upgrade her Tahoe. And the discussion is, you know, we can. She's talked about getting a loan, and I have a bonus coming up here shortly that would cover the amount of the loan. But my question is, I'm trying to determine kind of what. What is. How do you determine what the proper amount to spend on upgrading a vehicle is given our, you know, where we are in the baby steps. And then also I, you know, I'm still pretty confident you guys are against getting a loan, period.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I'm more concerned with the fact I'm less concerned about you spending cash on a Tahoe. I think that you'll be reasonable on that. I'm more concerned with her even suggesting a loan. What's happening, happened there? Why did she get so desperate?

[Caller]

That's, that's the same, same question I asked. You know, it's like I said, it's a nice vehicle, it runs fine.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what's it gonna cost to upgrade?

[Caller]

It's gonna be anywhere between 15 and $19,000 is what she's suggesting for the loan. The trade in value on it or the sale value of it's about 20 grand. And like I said, we finished up our, you know, our fiscal year with the company I'm with here recently, and I, you know, have a bonus come and feel confident that it will cover the amount of that loan. I'm, I'm of the opinion, though, let's just wait till that money.

[George Campbell]

You're not getting a loan. I'm telling you it right now, y'.

[Jade Warshaw]

All are not getting a loan. Alex, that's just a value in our house that we don't borrow money.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So it's an easier conversation. What's your household income?

[Caller]

Something that we've, we're, we're a little over two.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. There's no I, I 100 think that it's well within the balance to spend 15 or 19, upgrading to a vehicle if you spend cash for it. My parameters on this are kind of, you know, it's all about the financially smart adult checklist. And it's five things to go through. You want to make sure you're a person who's budgeting, you're a person who's paying off your debt, you're a person who saved saving. Right. You've got your emergency fund, you're doing your 15. You're a person who values generosity, and you're a person who carries the proper insurances. If that's true, which it is, you're on baby step six. You can do this, but you cannot consider debt for this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Get the car. But do it the right way, my friend. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Until next time. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus Sa.