Start Telling Your Money What To Do

Summary

The Ramsey Show - "Start Telling Your Money What To Do"

Date: June 10, 2026
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Jade Washer Ramsey
Podcast Theme: Empowering listeners to take practical control of their finances and build wealth—no matter past mistakes—by answering real-life money questions and providing actionable advice.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the power of intentional money management, with Dave and Jade guiding callers through financial predicaments. The focus is on proactive budgeting, avoiding debt traps, and structuring one’s financial life to reduce stress and increase freedom. Strong emphasis is made on personal responsibility, getting organized with tools (like the EveryDollar app), and resisting societal pressure or comparison when making money decisions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Getting Out of the Cycle: Budgeting as the Foundation

• Opening Call (00:50–09:02):
  • Caller Christy admits she's always in the red, doesn't use a budget, and lacks financial organization.
  • Jade: "Usually when people experience that problem, either your income is not enough, or there is something in your expenses that needs to lower, or just shared disorganization." (01:24)
  • Action Steps:
    • Use EveryDollar app to create a zero-based budget—every dollar assigned a job until you hit zero.
    • List all income and expenses, eliminate "impulsing" and random spending.
    • Assign new income to focus on debt, not to more purchases.
    • Dave (02:52): "A budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went."
  • Key Advice:
    • Cut up credit cards immediately. Stop accruing more debt while trying to get out.
    • Temporarily pause retirement contributions (401k) to focus on paying off debt, then return and increase investing rate.
    • Dave (06:49): "If you want to win at anything, you just start paying attention to it and you're going to win at this because you called and said, 'I'm ready to pay attention to it.'"

2. Avoiding Car Debt Traps

• Rudy in New York (10:08–19:16):
  • Rudy's stuck in a burdensome car lease and paying high insurance with no savings.
  • Dave & Jade’s Strategy:
    • Find the early buyout number for the lease—don’t trust dealer-quoted “early termination fee.”
    • Sell the car if necessary, even if a small loss.
    • Dave (16:41): "You need a car that's so nasty you have to name it. And then you walk out and you kick it in the door and say, 'all right, Bessie, we're going.'"
  • Memorable Quote:
    • Jade: "Later on, it's a badge of honor. I'm a grownup and I did what it takes to be a grownup." (19:21)
    • Dave: "High correlation between people who don't give a crap what other people think and those that build wealth." (19:28)

3. Transitioning Into Financial Responsibility as a Family

• Dustin – New Dad (21:16–25:47):
  • New marriage, baby on the way, $37,500 debt (pickup truck, credit cards).
  • Action Plan:
    • Sell the expensive truck and get a beater car.
    • Pause investing, direct all money toward debt payoff.
    • Use budgeting tools together as a couple.
    • Jade (25:20): "This really is you and your wife joining arms together and doing this together… have a conversation and make sure she's on the same page."

4. Escaping Poor Housing Choices

• Paula in Dallas (25:47–30:26):
  • Stuck with an expensive manufactured home, feels trapped.
  • Dave: "You need to get rid of it. Every day you own it, it’s going down in value."
  • Jade: "Waiting is going to make it more painful… The conversation really does need to start today." (29:35)

5. Rejecting External Judgement – Confidence, Comparison & Values

• Tabitha in Toronto (32:26–41:47):
  • Conflicted about not owning a home, feeling judged by others.
  • Dave (35:11): "I just don't care because I'm not really taking a poll from people that don't have a vote in my life."
  • Jade: "The point of comparison is to either learn best practices or draw inspiration. It’s not to make yourself feel good or bad about yourself. If you’re looking at other people and that’s making you feel good or bad about yourself, I think you’ve crossed the wrong territory." (37:25)
  • Emphasis on following your values, not family or societal pressure, when making financial decisions.

6. Elderly Debt & Family Responsibilities

• Michelle in New York (43:31–51:22):
  • Daughter discovers 85-year-old mom with $45k in credit card debt after husband’s death.
  • Key Guidance:
    • Unless you co-signed, you’re not liable; debts are not inherited.
    • Debts will disappear when she passes if there are no assets; don’t stress or pay moral debts to predatory lenders.
    • Dave: "These are not your friends. They are their own friend. A firm wins, Christy loses. Quit letting them do it. Get pissed off about the villain in this story. It's real." (07:44; earlier call, but thematic echo here)
    • Consider settling for a small amount to make calls stop; insist on written confirmation.

7. Family Gifts with Strings Attached

• Jenna in Utah (54:21–62:38):
  • Husband wants to accept grandfather’s $19K car gift; caller has boundaries concerns.
  • Dave (61:12): "If the offer comes with me being trapped in the car and you coming over here and telling me how to live my life because you gave me $19,000? No, thank you. I’ll pass. That’s not pride. That’s wisdom."

8. Preparing for Early Retirement – Building a Bridge Fund

• Bri from Grand Rapids (66:41–73:29):
  • Couple aggressively saving for retirement, realizing retirement assets aren’t accessible until 59.5.
  • Dave’s Bridge Strategy:
    • Focus on Baby Steps (15% into retirement, pay off house).
    • Once the house is paid off, redirect payments to a taxable brokerage account to build up funds for early retirement years.
    • Dave (69:34): "If you start putting your whole house payment away... you’re in $400,000 in about 20 minutes. It goes really, really fast."

9. Facing a Gambling Addiction

• Philip in Memphis (76:06–84:34):
  • $30k in debt, asking whether to pay it or file bankruptcy; admits to problem gambling but denies addiction.
  • Dave: "You have all the symptoms of someone who has a gambling addiction."
  • Jade: "You called us and based on your logic, we both think that you do have an addiction. So there's something about you, here's... something about you that trusts us; otherwise you wouldn't have called in." (79:23)
  • Key advice: Stop gambling, get help (Gamblers Anonymous), and focus on earning more, not bankruptcy.

10. Student Loans and Career Re-evaluation

• Christine in Oklahoma (86:07–94:17):
  • First-year lawyer, $115k in student loans, wants to spend more time with new baby. Feels trapped.
  • Dave: "There are other ways to utilize your law degree... but you gave up the option of being a full time mom when you decided to go $115,000 in debt." (91:23)
  • Option A: Power through, pay off debt in 18 months, then re-evaluate.
    Option B: Find a less demanding legal job, even if it pays less.

11. Small Expenses, Big Fights – The Haircut Debate

• Keith's Q (95:59–102:20):
  • Caller wants cheaper haircuts; wife wants expensive professional grooming.
  • Jade: "If one of your spouses is saying that's an unattractive quality... you need to run and fix that."
  • Both hosts poke fun at the triviality of the dispute given the amounts involved; suggestion to compromise.

12. Budgeting for College with Limited Margin

• John in Indianapolis (102:29–105:24):
  • After saving for retirement, has only $13/month left for a 529 plan.
  • Dave: With limited margin, follow baby steps: prioritize retirement first, then build up college savings when able.

13. Overspending at High Incomes

• Kristen in Connecticut (107:15–113:10):
  • Households with $374K income stressed over husband’s reimbursable expenses.
  • Dave: "You have $30,000 a month coming in, and you've put a bullseye on this three grand like it's the problem. It's not. You guys got other problems. You're spending like you're in Congress at home."
  • Jade: "I think you guys have gotten way, way, way too comfortable and way, way, way too sloppy."
  • Key guidance: Get on a tight budget, segregate expense account, stop investing temporarily, and re-evaluate the overlarge home and lifestyle.

14. Preparing for Retirement: Investments versus Annuity

• Donald in Boston (117:19–124:32):
  • Nearing retirement, wary about running out of money, solicited for an annuity.
  • Dave: "You did not find a financial advisor. You found a life insurance agent that called himself a financial advisor. Don't do that."
  • Encouragement: With $950k in investments and a paid-for $550k house, the listener is well-prepared. Focus on living off the growth of investments in retirement, not the principal.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave (06:49): "If you want to win at anything, you just start paying attention to it and you're going to win at this because you called and said, 'I'm ready to pay attention to it.'"
• Dave (19:28): "High correlation between people who don't give a crap what other people think and those that build wealth."
• Jade (25:20): "This really is you and your wife joining arms together and doing this together…"
• Dave (35:11): "I'm not really taking a poll from people that don't have a vote in my life."
• Dave (61:12): "If the offer comes with me being trapped in the car and you coming over here and telling me how to live my life because you gave me 19 whole thousand dollars? No, thank you. I'll pass. That's not pride. That's wisdom."
• Dave (78:05): "You have all the symptoms of someone who has a gambling addiction."
• Dave (113:10): "We have a tendency to try to out earn our own stupidity. So what I want you to do is I want you guys to get on a very, very tight budget."
• Donald in Boston (118:55): "We were brought up poor but I didn't discover you till 10 years ago when I was buried in debt. I owe pretty much my debt free lifestyle to you actually."
• Jade (124:13): "When you have no debt and no house payment, that number that you need to pull off goes way down."
• Dave (126:20): "If you want to win, you're going to have to pay a price. You're going to be okay, you got lots of times, lots of times in the next 20 years that you can stop adding to your 401k and still make your bridge."

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:50–09:02: Understanding disorganization, zero-based budgeting, eliminating impulsive spending (Christy)
• 10:08–19:16: Car lease debt, getting out of bad auto deals, pride, and living below means (Rudy)
• 21:16–25:47: New parents, baby steps for families, team budgeting (Dustin)
• 25:47–30:26: Manufactured home financial pitfalls (Paula)
• 32:26–41:47: Dealing with outside judgment, finding confidence in your plan (Tabitha)
• 43:31–51:22: Elderly parent’s debt & handling collection agencies (Michelle)
• 54:21–62:38: Boundaries with family gifts, pride vs. wisdom (Jenna)
• 66:41–73:29: Building "bridge funds" for early retirement (Bri)
• 76:06–84:34: Gambling addiction, denial, bankruptcy is not the answer (Philip)
• 86:07–94:17: Career re-evaluation after law school, student loans, motherhood (Christine)
• 95:59–102:20: Barber budget marital dispute (Keith)
• 102:29–105:24: Limited margin for college savings: priorities (John)
• 107:15–113:10: High earners with high expenses, the real problem isn’t reimbursements (Kristen)
• 117:19–124:32: Retirement planning, avoiding annuities, living off investment returns (Donald)

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Final Thoughts

Throughout the show, Dave and Jade urge listeners to:

• Take personal responsibility and get organized.
• Tell their money what to do—on paper, on purpose.
• Confront hard truths, whether about debt, addiction, or lifestyle creep.
• Ignore judgment from others; focus only on plans that align with your values and financial health.
• Use tools like EveryDollar and Ramsey Solutions’ resources to guide decisions.

The consistent message: Change happens when you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired. Take control—today.

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For more resources and budgeting tools, visit: ramseysolutions.com

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America. Jade Washer Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Christy is in Philadelphia. Hi Christy, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I was just calling to see if you could help me figure out how to live a life and not be burdened by so much financial issues.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we can certainly try.

[Caller]

Okay, what's going on? So I, I'm single, so I make about 50,000 a year and I just am always in the negative every month and I can't like really enjoy life. I just work and get back in the negative.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

So usually when people experience that problem, there's one or two things or both at play. So either your income, the money that you're bringing in is not enough or there is something in your expenses that needs to lower or a combination of

[Dave Ramsey]

both or just shared disorganization which we have no idea where the money goes and so it just leaves.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

That's a good point. Do you have a budget?

[Caller]

I don't and I have no idea what's coming and going.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay, so then that's.

[Caller]

I don't have like. Yeah.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

So what we're going to set you up with is every dollar. Every dollar is going to be the tool that's going to give you organization. It's the best budget app that's out there. And so when you open up every dollar, it's going to ask you some questions about yourself, it's going to ask you about your goals. But once you get into the actual budget, you'll have a place where you can list your income and you'll have a place where you can list all of your expenses. And the goal is to list out everything that you could possibly spend money on until you hit zero. That's called a zero based budget. You want to spend every single dollar of the money that you're bringing in on on purpose. Now when I say spend the money, I mean that's everything from rent, groceries, if you have car payments, if you have debt, and then if there's margin, you also need to assign that money a task, whether it's paying off the smallest debt or, you know, maybe you're behind on something that's. That's how that's going to work. Make sense?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So John Maxwell said it this way. He said that a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went. Okay, so on paper, on purpose, in this case, on app, on purpose. You lay out what you want your month to look like and then you be a grown up and live what you laid out. No whining. It's your plan. You can put whatever you want to on it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you obviously won't plan to be in the red.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Now, do you have a bunch of debt?

[Caller]

I have about 10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's on what?

[Caller]

Not a lot. Well, to be honest with you, 4,000 of it is. You probably never heard of this, but it's called a firm, so it's like a buying now, pay later plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I've definitely heard of it. So you've been impulsing your butt off.

[Caller]

Pretty much. So. I have, yeah. I have like four.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is like you put a T shirt on three payments, pretty much.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

What's the other 6,000?

[Caller]

It's like medical is 2,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

No car debt.

[Caller]

I have no card debt. Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what is the medical? Have you been ill?

[Caller]

No, it's actually dental.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Do you know, are you 6,000?

[Dave Ramsey]

Dental?

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

No, 2,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Where's the other four?

[Caller]

Just from, like just spending credit cards. Just credit cards? Yeah.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

You got to cut the credit cards and. Oh, I tend to, like put a lot of things for her on it. So like the $4,000. And I know this is cringy, but I made her like a playroom and I just put everything on the affirms. Like I put everything just so I could.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

How old's the baby? It's a baby in arms. No, she's two.

[Caller]

No, no, she's two.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Is she in daycare or what's the plan there?

[Caller]

No, I don't have any childcare expense as far as that. My mother matches her.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay. So step one was the budget. Step two also happens today. The budget happens today. Step two also happens today, which is you've got to cut up these credit cards. You can't. And please remember this, you cannot solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. Credit cards are your problem. Buy now, pay later. Basically, spending money that you don't have is your problem. So you cannot keep that source around in your life or you'll never be free. You've got to cut up those credit cards. That has to happen tonight.

[Caller]

Will you do It, No.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay. That's thing number two. Thing number three is, are you investing money out of your paycheck?

[Caller]

I have a 401k and I do invest 8% of my pay.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

My boss matches 3%. So it's really little though. It's really little that I have in there. I only have 6,300.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't want you to cash it out. We do want you to stop adding to it for a short period of time until you clear these debts.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no reason to put money in investments while you're sitting on 10k in debt.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And the reason why Dave is saying it, but even for the, the listening audience, your biggest wealth building tool is your income. The biggest tool that's going to help you get out of debt is your income. As long as you're putting your income in lots of different places, it's going to take you longer to do the thing that you ultimately want to do, which is get out of debt and build wealth. You've got to have focus, intensity with that income. So just temporarily pausing your retirement is going to give you 8% of your paycheck back into your hands that you can use to quickly pay off the $10,000 of debt and also then to turn around and save up three to six months of expenses. And before you know it, you'll be right back to investing. But at this point you'll be investing 15%, not just 8%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you can, you'll have the money to do that because you'll have no payments. So here's the thing, Christie. It sounds like that, you know, a two year old child and the last two years of your life have had some stress to them. And during that time you paid attention to dealing with the life situation and not the money situation. And so the money situation just kind of ran on autopilot and it really wasn't good at driving by itself. So it needs you to now start driving it. And now because if you want to win at anything, you just start paying attention to it and you're going to win at this because you called and said, I'm ready to pay attention to it. Teach me how.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you're actually going to go do this. And I have a prediction that you probably will never borrow money on a credit card again and you probably will never use, affirm and get screwed by those people again, by the way. That's what they're doing. They're screwing you. So don't, don't, you know, don't, don't set yourself up to be the victim. These villains are out there. They're real. And these companies are not your friend. They're their own friend. They're not looking out for Christie. I can affirm that they are looking out for. Affirm. That's it. One person profiting in this transaction. This is a win, lose transaction. A firm wins, Christy loses. Quit letting them do it. Get pissed off about the villain in this story. It's real.

[George Camel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Rudy is in New York. Hi, Rudy, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. Good to be on the phone with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good to be with you. What's up?

[Caller]

So currently I'm just in a little bit. I feel like in a dead end situation and I don't really know what to do to get out of it. I'm currently about 6,500 in debt with personal and credit cards. I have no savings at all and I have 1200 50amonth car note.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh.

[Caller]

That I'm kind of stuck with at the moment.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Why are you stuck with it?

[Caller]

It's a lease that I signed about 10 months ago for three years and I wanted to get out of it. I went to the dealership, but just the fees to get out of it are just insane. So I decided to keep the car for the moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who gave you the fees? The dealer?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Who'd you sign the lease with? What company? It's who?

[Caller]

It's a Toyota, but they did it with Visions Credit Union.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you signed a lease. You got a lease through your credit union?

[Caller]

Well, it was through Toyota Financial. They hooked me up with visions.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, Toyota Financial set this up. That's who screwed you.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay, what's the early termination fee? Do you know what it is?

[Caller]

It was like seven something, like seven grand something. Because I. I also drove a lot with the car, too. So I went. I didn't go over the limit of miles, but for how much? How long I've had the car. I drove it more than I was supposed to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay? That's not how it works. So someone, they're trying. They're continuing to screw you, all right? So you need to call. You need to call Toyota Credit and ask them what the early buyout on the lease is. What can I pay you off today for? That's like the early payoff on a debt. It does not include the interest through the entire 36 months. Okay? And there should be no fees on that other than just. What does it take? What. What is the check I need to write today? Okay, what car is this with Toyota?

[Caller]

It's a 2025 GR Corolla.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so look that car up and figure out what it's worth and then get the early buyout price. Price. Have you looked up what it's worth, by the way?

[Caller]

It's worth about 38,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay? So you can. You could get about 38,000 if you sold it. Let's pretend that when you get the early buyout on the lease, 1250amonth for 36 months, it's.

[Caller]

It's 700amonth, but my insurance makes it 1250, so it's insane.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay? That's different. Information on your insurance is a different thing. Okay? It's not your car payment. Your insurance is not in your car payment. You said you had a $12 car payment. You do not. You have a $750 car payment. Okay, now that makes the numbers better, not make them worse. It makes me understand the numbers. I didn't understand them at 1250. I couldn't figure out what Toyota had done to you. All right? So anyway, you find out what the early. The car's worth.38,000. You find out what the early buyout is if I write you a check in full today. Okay, then let's pretend that's $34,000. You could simply go to the credit union and get a car loan for $34,000 and pay off the lease. Then you would owe $34,000. You follow me?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now. Or it's $42,000 so it's more than the buyout, the early buyout on the lease, but has nothing to do with the mileage. This is simply the financial part of the transaction of what can I pay my loan off for early? That's what this is. Okay. And you compare that to the car. Now if you, if it takes more than 38,000 to buy it out, let's call it 40,000, then you've got to arrange with your credit Union to borrow $2,000 and sell the car to someone for 38,000. And you sell it and you buy out the lease early, which is paying off your loan early. And that's how you get out of a lease early. And it sounds like you desperately need to do that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 25.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So. So the number one mistake that 25 year olds make is an expensive car with a big car payment and a big insurance payment. So you're like a normal 25 year old, but you have discovered that sucks and you don't want to be that anymore.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you didn't do anything that almost every 25 year old in America hadn't done. But the trick is you've really got to concentrate and not just listen. If somebody screws you like you went on that Toyota lot and Toyota Financial screwed you, then don't go ask them how to fix it, because they're not. That's like the wolf in the hen house, dude. You don't even know what that means. Okay, but that's like, you know, I get you. Yeah. It's like asking an alligator if he's hungry. You know what I mean? It's like seriously.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Right, Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. Yes. Come on in. I will eat you. Yes. I will help you. I will screw you again. Says Toyota Financial. Yes.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Right. Well, good thing he called us because now I feel like he's got the next moves to get out of this. It just took him a second to get there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. Marudi. I would expend an amazing amount of energy to get out of this car.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And not just accept laying down that this is your fate for the next 36 months.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And part of that fate is after this car is sold. Now he's in the real business of driving a beater. Driving something that's, you know, three or $4,000, really the ugliest car and the oldest car that you can find that still runs is what you're going to be driving for a while until you

[Dave Ramsey]

need a car that has to Have a name. It's so bad, you have to name it Bertha, Old Blue Bessie. Whatever it is, if it doesn't have a name, it's too good a car. You need a car that's so nasty that you have to name it. And then you walk out and you kick it in the door and say, all right, Bessie, we're going. Start up, start up, Bessie. Here we go. You got to have the Blue Goose. You got to have whatever it is. Right. And that's for a short period of time. But if you will drive like no one else, you can bank 1250 bucks a month. In 10 months, that's $12,500.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

That's going to feel good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then you can get rid of old Bessie.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Because your insurance is going to go down, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because you don't even get insurance for Bessie. Poor Bessie. She's not even worth health insurance.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

No, she's not even. She's not even worth replacement cost.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're just going to put a bullet. We're going to put a bullet in her. If she pulls over to the side. That's it. Yeah, that's it. I mean, this is the way you have to think. And I did that. I drove a piece of crap when we were broke and getting out. And then I got a little better piece of crap, and it was so much better that I didn't think it was a piece of crap. Although it was a piece of crap still. Yeah. I mean, that's what you do for a little while so that you never have to do it again. It's not a way of life, but it's how you get out of these messes that we all find ourselves in. When you wander into the finance office at Toyota Credit, we've all done it.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

We've all done it. I remember when I met Sam, he had a Jeep Grand Cherokee and he had finally made the final payment to pay it off.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they're not a good car.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

It's not a good car, but he paid it off. And I'd never known anybody who. I'd never seen anybody who didn't have a car note. And don't. You know, he went right down there to the Hummer dealership and bought a

[Dave Ramsey]

H3 because we couldn't stand not having a car payment.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Well, it was. The thought was, once your car hits 100,000 miles, it's going to start breaking down.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's gonna start messing, you know, not a Jeep Cherokee. Once it hits 10,000 miles, it starts breaking down.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah. And so we've all done stupid things. But the point is, I remember the feeling of then selling that H3. You're used to riding pretty nice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y' all were Miami Vice, man. I remember y' all in Miami riding

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

around in the Hummer and then had to sell that. And you get used to it. My point in telling that story is it feels nice to drive a new car. It is a hit to the pride when you have to start driving something older and sell your things. But you do get used used to it. Human beings are very flexible at the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is a hit to the pride. Later on, it's a badge of honor.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

It is.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm a grownup and I did what it takes to be a grownup.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And I don't care what you people think about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen. High correlation between people who don't give a crap what other people think and those that build wealth. If you're worried about what other people think, you're going to be poor most of your life.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Dustin is in Chicago. Hi Dustin, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I am recently married and I have a baby coming in August. And about a year ago I was a single guy living by myself, not really having a care in the world. And one day changed my life and God blessed me with a beautiful wife and a to be daughter. And I am on the wrong side of $37,500 in total debt. And I want to dig myself out and build a future for my family. And I know you're the guy crew to talk to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Congratulations.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Congrats.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds like a great life. You got laid out. We just got to get rid of the mess on the 37,000. So what is the 37,000 owed to.

[Caller]

So I owe 26,000. $26 on my pickup truck, and I owe 11,500 in credit card debt. And I rent from my father. Rents cheap and. But the bills add up because basically, now that she's cut down on work, my wife, it's all about her and the baby now, and I got to make sure that I take care of them. And money's super tight right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

What are you paying for rent?

[Caller]

So rent is actually 750 bucks a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

I make. Well, gross is 63. 5. My take home, after taxes and insurance, because she's on my Insurance, it's about $3015.50 a month.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And there's no investing coming out of that, right?

[Caller]

No, just. Well, my 401k that I pay a little into and then my company matches very little.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

That's exactly what I mean when I say investing. How. How much. What percentage is coming out of your money?

[Caller]

I believe it's like 3% or something. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. And you have a pickup you can't afford, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, I. When I was single, it. It was right there on the cusp of what I could. But now that you know, I got a man up and do what I got to do, I know this is coming. So, yeah, it's. That's definitely on the table.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so when are you selling it?

[Caller]

Apparently as soon as I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, apparently. Because all of a sudden your life gets good. You $11,000 in debt, then get you a beater car for a little while. For Just for a little while. You have to for your whole life. And then. Then you lean in and you stop your 401k to what little is going in there, and you clean up everything. Did you get a tax refund last year?

[Caller]

I did, but it was very small. It was. It was about $400.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're not overpaying on your taxes. We don't think. But you might be with a baby on the way.

[Caller]

Yes, that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So you may get a bigger refund. We'll have to wait and see. I don't. I don't want to monkey with that today.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

But I would pause the 401k today.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would pause it today and sell the pickup today.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And just for clarity, that is just a pause. It's not stopp forever. It's pausing until you clear out the truck, you clear out the 11, 000 of debt. And I'd like. I mean, following the baby steps, you do need to save three to six months of expenses. How good would it feel to know that you had your wife coming home, the baby, and six months of a cushion just in case anything would.

[Dave Ramsey]

No debt and $10,000 in the bank?

[Caller]

It would be God. It would be a godsend, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it'll be godsend. And he sent Dustin to do it.

[Caller]

That's. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. So clean her up, dude. That's the thing. So we're gonna send you every dollar budgeting app, premium version that we're gonna pay for and give it to you as a baby gift. So you and your wife sit down tonight and you look at that app and you lay out exactly where every dollar is going and you say, all right, the 401k stopping the pickup is leaving. And now we're going to attack the $11,000 in credit card debt. And beans and rice. Rice and beans. And she needs to work as much as she can without putting herself child in danger because we need money.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And let's talk about that because, you know, this has been all angled at you, Dustin, but this really is you and your wife joining arms together and doing this together. So rather than you getting off the phone and, you know, putting on your cape and doing this, you're gonna have to have a conversation with her and make sure that she's on the same page and agrees with this strategy and agrees with the intensity and agrees that this is what needs to happen next. That's a big part of this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Paula is in Dallas. Hey, Paula, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi. Yes, thank you for taking my call. Sure. I basically have a predicament. I guess we are new to the Dave Ramsey philosophy and all that and we now coming down to the numbers, we have bought manufactured home back in 2022 and we still owe about $98,000 on that and interest rate is 8.95. So we feel like we definitely shouldn't have done that decision, but we're in it now. And we just started making 80,000 this year. And so. But we still feel like one, this is not our forever home. Two, we feel like we could definitely free up some money in the housing Area. Area. Because basically our mortgage is 1070amonth. But we need a place to put the house in and we didn't have that. So we have. We put the house in a community where they charge about 950amonth. So it's about $2,000 that we have.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

What's it worth paying that home?

[Caller]

I. I'm not sure. But that's the thing. I feel like if we were to sell, I didn't know that they depreciate. I believe so I don't think that if we were to sell, we would get it, we would break even, if that makes sense.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

It does.

[Dave Ramsey]

You, you need to get rid of it. Every day you own it, it's going down in value.

[Caller]

Exactly. And I think that's what's like we feel stuck because we feel like you're

[Dave Ramsey]

going to be more stuck the longer you wait.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

So the point of that is there's not a good. The point of that is this is going to be. This is going to feel bad, it's not going to feel good. You're going to feel the weight of the mistake when you look at the appraisal and see what it's actually worth. But Dave is exactly right. Waiting is not going to solve the problem. Waiting is going to make it more painful.

[Caller]

Yeah, I agree. Which is why we called. We thankfully had spiritual parents who guided us through the process of just, you know, creating a safe place for us for talking about budgeting and all that. Because we did not do that at all the past couple years. And with my husband's job, they actually provide every dollar premium app for free for employees.

[Dave Ramsey]

So neat.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

What kind of margin do you have? When you open up every dollar, what kind of margin do you see?

[Caller]

I mean, well, it's a zero dollar based budget. Right. So we assigned everything to.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Right. So after you've paid the, the essentials and you've got money that you can kind of decide, here's what we're going to do with the extra. What are, how much is the extra and what are you currently doing with it? Because I'm trying to find some money to help offset.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean we have. Yeah, we have. Thankfully we don't have any debt on cars. We did not have any debt. We, we did the whole paying off our debt. So we're in baby step three. A good margin wise. I mean, it's just like a hundred maybe.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you have saved?

[Caller]

1,400.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Which is why we feel like the housing is such a big part of Our check that we can't put towards saving or putting it towards. If we sell it, we can put the rest of it, if that makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're probably going to be in the hole and you're probably going to have a loan for the amount that you're in the hole. And you're probably temporarily moving into a rental so that you stop the bleeding.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But every year you own this, you're losing $10,000 or more.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

So the conversation really does need to start today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Like, how are we getting rid of this house? And start talking to real estate agents. Start talking to people in the mobile home manufactured world. Who's going to come pick this up? Who's going to buy it? What are we going to sell it for? How are we going to get rid of it? What's the process look like in Texas? And then you also get rid of the 950 doll. Hot rent.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yes. And by the way, if there's more questions, go. We have a really cool tool. It's called Ask Ramsey. If you have more questions, which I know you do, because there's a lot of nuance to this, go on there and keep digging deeper. What I don't want you to do is stop because of a lack of information. I want you to keep digging in on your situation and it's going to point you to all the resources that you need because we can only, you know, we can only do so much in this short call to help you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ladies and gentlemen, mobile homes are not a bargain. They go down in value. It's not a class thing. It's not an I'm a snob thing. It's a math thing. It's a car you sleep in, don't buy one. If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And right now, AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind it. The best AI is built on the best data. That's why I recommend NetSuite. NetSuite is the number one AI cloud, ERP, and more than 43,000 businesses run on it, including us here at Ramsey Solutions. Their AI isn't bolted on, it's built in. And it connects everything that runs your business, accounting, inventory, customer data, all in one place. Because when your numbers are connected, AI actually works like it's supposed to. NetSuite's AI helps flag cash flow problems, spot inventory issues, close your books faster, and cut down on manual reporting. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netsuite.com Ramsey for a free product tour. That's netsuite.com Ramsey. Tabitha is in Toronto. Hi, Tabitha. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my question is, how do we live confidently in the stage that we are financially and know what that looks like? I'm married. I'm 25, and we have a little boy. We live just off my husband's income. I stay at home with him. And we're on baby steps four and five. Well, kind of sitting on a down 15% of a down payment for a house. And we kind of see people our age drowning in debt and kind of feel good about ourselves when we see them. But then we have everyone else basically judging our financial decisions because we don't own a house. And they make us kind of feel like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like who?

[Caller]

Because we don't. People that are older than us, parents. People who own houses and we don't.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like your. Like your mother?

[Caller]

No, not really. Kind of both sets of parents. No particular parent. And then. So then we kind of feel when we have margin in our budget and have some comfortable margins, you know, safe to go on vacation, all that thing like, my husband needs a new phone. And we feel bad to spend because we have our mindset that we're poor and not really sure, maybe where we are in the baby steps because we don't own a house.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

So I hear two things going on. I hear you just needing some clarification on where you are in the baby steps. But then I hear a lot of comparison, whether it be positive or negative, just a lot of comparison to other people. Whether it be we're doing better than these people or these people, we need to impress them. We need to care about what they think in some way. So those are the two things I hear. We can help you define what baby step you're on. But the comparison part is something that you're going to have to think through because the only reason that you're. The only reason you have to compare are one of two reasons that I can clearly think of. One is positive and one is negative. One is you can look at other people and draw inspiration, right? You can look at them and go, okay, that's.

[Caller]

That's pretty good.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And then the other thing, if you're looking at them, it's because of competition, and that tends to be negative.

[Caller]

And so I don't think it's competition for us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, so let me stop you a second, okay. When you say we feel judged, okay, that's your Feeling true. They either are judging or they aren't judging. But you can choose to feel judged or you can choose to not feel judged. That's just a choice. You're just going, you know, I, you know, there's lots of people that judge everything we do here on the air. Right. And. And the number of times I care is precisely zero.

[Caller]

True. Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just don't care because I'm not really taking a poll from people that don't have a vote in my life.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I have a set of values and a set of practices, tactically, that Sharon and I engage in, and they work and they're taking us to where we want to go. And if someone doesn't like that, I guess they're just going to have to have. Have their own little problem party over there. Yeah. Because I'm not really taking. I'm not. You don't get a vote. Now, if you're not confident in your values and in the habits and the patterns that you're engaging in, if you're not confident it's going to get you to where you want to go, then that's a different thing. That's between you and the value or the idea. But if you're following, for instance, the baby steps in detail from the book, the Total Money Makeover, if you're doing that in detail, well, you're following what somewhere around 10 or 15 million people have done. And so if your broke friends don't like it, well, good. That's like fat people making fun of your diet.

[Caller]

True, true.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I'm going to send you a copy of my book, what no One Tells yous About Money, because I talk a lot about this very thing in the book, and I think it's going to help you. It'll also help you, by the way, identify exactly which baby step you're on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly. So I think it's pretty simple. You defined it. You're on baby step 3B. You're out of debt, you have an emergency fund, you're saving for your house. And if you don't put money in retirement for a little while, up to a maximum of three years is what we teach. And you want to throw 100% of your extra money towards the house down payment. That's fine. If you want to throw some of your extra money and still do some retirement people do that. Both of those we call baby step 3B. But this is the point at which you do save for a house, and it does take normal people a little while to save for a House. Most people don't just go, woo hoo. All of a sudden, I just bought a house. It's not like you're running down and picking up a pack of gum. This is a house. So it takes a minute.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah, I, I just, I go back to the comparison thing. The point of comparison is to either learn best practices to draw inspiration. It's not to make yourself feel good or bad. That's not the purpose of it. I think that that's a very thin line that you have to walk. If you're looking at other people and that's making you feel good or bad about yourself, I think you've crossed the wrong territory. The point of that is to look and say, what can I learn from that? What can I be inspired from from that? Is there a best practice from that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But if there's a, if someone is judging me and I'm unsure, then that goes a lot further than someone who's judging me. And I'm sure.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Absolutely. Because then I don't care.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then I'm like, you know, beautiful thing, you have the right to be wrong. It's called freedom.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, and so I'm going to keep going. And good luck with that. Good luck with your wrong thinking there. And I just keep moving on. I'm not really taking a poll. Really not. And well, Dave, you don't care what other people think. Exactly, exactly, exactly. I love other people, but I don't care what they think. There's a difference. I'm not taking a poll. And so. And sometimes losers are in your family. You know, sometimes. Debbie Downer is your cousin.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, everybody's got crazy in their family. And if you don't think so, then it's you. Everybody's got crazy in their family. And so, you know, that's just part of it. And you just go, well, that's crazy. Crazy aunt so and so. Right. And you crazy uncle so and so.

[Caller]

You don't have to.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, they're sweet, but they're crazier in a bean. You know, it's just like, it's all right. Then you don't get a vote. Crazy so and so and loser so and so. You know, look at your life. Who would want to be, who would aspire to be that? No, thank you. You don't get a vote. No, thank you. I'm not living like that. And so this is best practices, you know, if you want to emulate or copy a series of habits, character traits, and so on. Then find someone that's winning.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so for instance, we had a pastor come and do a devotional for us a while back. 87 years old. And he walks in the room, you could see peace, the peace of the Holy Spirit on his face. And towards the end of the devotional, he said, so what I'm going to do is I'm just going to give you the Book of Hebrews. And for 17 minutes, I clocked it, and I sat and watched him word for word in my Bible. He did the book of Hebrews.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Just recited it from memory. Oh, my goodness.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, you know, I could aspire to be that guy. That's somebody that I could.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

That's inspiring.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's an inspiring guy. That's an amazing person to be when you're 87. I want to be him when I grow up, you know, And I'm thinking, but, you know, versus so and so, who's got all this? Their life looks like a junk heap because of their decisions and the processes and the values that they have. And yet they have an opinion. You know, you really have to stop and think about this, folks. I mean, really, if your broke friends are making fun of your financial plan, you are right on track.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

That's a good point.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it. And so, you know, if you're in. Just look, if someone is. If they're. If they're worth $10 million, we might sit and listen a minute, maybe.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

But the person worth $10 million is usually not going to be the one inserting themselves in the conversation, judging anybody.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're usually the cheerleader.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so proud of you.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

You know, I love, you know, Jefferson Fisher. I love the way he approaches those conversations when people kind of say judgmental or condescending remarks, and you can just throw it right at him and say, did you mean for that to sound judgmental? Did you mean for that to sound condescending?

[Dave Ramsey]

Were you trying to be hurtful?

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah. Were you trying to be. I love it. I've tried it, and let me just tell you, it works.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just zip it. It zips it right up.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

It sure does. Shut it down.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just w. I wish I could be as calm and nice as Jefferson.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah. Cause he smiles when he does it.

[Dave Ramsey]

He smiles. He's so peaceful and calm. I just did his podcast the other day. We got to spend several hours together. I just love the guy.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. But he's just. He's just ridiculously nice. It's shameful. How nice he is.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

It's inspiring.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's inspiring.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Michelle is in New York. Hi Michelle, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay, so I have a question regarding my mother and her credit card debt and who is liable for her non payments of credit cards?

[Dave Ramsey]

Only her.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Unless you're. Unless you're a cosigner.

[Caller]

No, no. But she's accumulated 45,000 over five different credit cards. And I only found this out after my father passed away in July going through stuff. So she doesn't have any income besides the Social Security. She's already been sent three letters from three, three debt collectors and one actually went to a summons, has sued, you know, is now in court and has sued her for the balance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does she own a home?

[Caller]

The home is transferred. So she does not own the property. Since 2006.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whose name is the property in?

[Caller]

Mine and my brother's.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was done in 2006.

[Caller]

2006, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she ran up the debt after that?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I mean I'm sure it's a culmination of. I mean I don't have all. I have all the credit cards and the balance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does she have any other assets at all? Does she own anything?

[Caller]

Vehicles? She doesn't own anything. Only she doesn't know. She just never, never drove.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is she?

[Caller]

85.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long has it been since she charged on the cards the last time?

[Caller]

So last time was probably, probably August, the beginning of August and then of 2025. And then I told her to stop making the payment in September.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, she had to choose between food and paying the credit cards. Who does she. Who are the cards with? Who issued this 85 year old broke widow credit cards?

[Caller]

She has Amex. She has a city mastercard, a city visa.

[Dave Ramsey]

Citibank and Amex have screwed an 85 year old widow. They issued her card. They issued her card at a high interest rate and she has no income but Social Security.

[Caller]

Correct? Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

These, these are, this is, this is the American Express we know and love. Yeah. This is Citibank. What's in your wallet? We screw widows.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, we didn't. I didn't make any attempts to reach out to any of the credit card companies either. Like to say she doesn't have any

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

money to give them anyway.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Now, I would explain to her that if she ever borrows money again, she's stealing.

[Caller]

Right? Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because she has no ability to pay it back.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so she has to stop this on a moral basis.

[Caller]

Well, now that I'm involved, it kind of is because I'm not allowing that to happen. I have her on. I have her on a short lease.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and you're watching over the money?

[Caller]

Yes, I am.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Does she have enough in her Social Security to, to handle the things she needs handled, including like food, utilities, all

[Caller]

that, or does she need covers? She has a surplus of maybe like $300 by the end of the month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, I appreciate you watching over her. So the answer to your question is if someone passes away and they have zero assets, their debts simply don't get paid. Debts are not inherited in the United States.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you do not inherit debt. It's impossible. Now that reason we ask all these questions was if she owns a house when you die, what you own stands good for what you owe. Your assets stand against your liabilities, and what's left over is called an inheritance. In this case, she doesn't own anything. Right. And so these people will simply not get paid upon her death. By the way, you cannot garnish Social Security either. So sue away. She's what we call, what we call judgment proof. Sue away. And then if you guys want to talk to Citi or Amex, it's up to you and offer them 10 cents on the dollar to just go away, just from the hassle standpoint, and the family just put together a little money and get rid of this. And she's not ever going to borrow again. And the cards are all cut up and the accounts are all closed. That would Be a nice thing to do, but I'm under no moral obligation because these people loan money to an 85 year old widow who's on Social Security. They got what's coming to them.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. When American Express and Citibank does this kind of thing, and they do it every day, they loan money to people who can't pay and they know they can't pay and they know they can't pay and they don't care. And your mother sits awake at night wringing her hands because she has honor and she wants to honor her obligations, but she has no ability mathematically to. Because these people screwed her.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And that's probably the reason why. If you can settle, I would. Because there is a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get it off of her.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she's not seeing the sheriff at the front door with a summons.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Exactly right.

[Caller]

So the one, the one that did issue the summons already is American Express.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, of course. So, yeah, they're some of the nastiest humans on the planet. We work with them all the time. You can tell they're lying if their mouth's moving.

[Caller]

So I didn't know if it's something that needs to be responded to, I

[Dave Ramsey]

can if you want. It's up to you. Do you. What's the balance on it?

[Caller]

The Amex at the time, without any interest that's now accrued was. Was $9,385.15.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do y' all want to give them, do you and your husband want to give him $1,000 to go away?

[Caller]

I mean, if it was to go away, I would.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then call them.

[Caller]

And so you call the lawyer or

[Dave Ramsey]

do you call a lawyer? If you want, you just call a lawyer and go, hey, you're suing an 85 year old woman who's on Social Security. You get nothing, Honey, do you have

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

the money to do it?

[Dave Ramsey]

And if, if you got extra money laying around and I, my husband and I are willing to give you guys a thousand dollars just so you piss off, but otherwise piss off.

[Caller]

Okay. And they can't resell it to somebody else.

[Dave Ramsey]

They can sell it, they can do whatever they want. Oh, no, not if you do that and write it. That's why I said that you can tell they're lying if their mouth's moving. So be sure you get it in writing and do not give them any access to any. Don't give them any information on her. Nothing about her. This is my mom. She's 85, she's on Social Security. She has no assets, she's judgment Proof. Our financial coach said to tell you to piss off, but I decided I'd make you an offer of $1,000 and see if you'll go away. And I'm your financial coach. I just told you that so you can tell them I said that. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I hate those people. This is the stuff they do to regular people every day. And then we dance around and go, I need an AMEX card. Because I get a gold card or a platinum card and I'm somebody based on the metal in my plastic God.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Mmm, it's not good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, you don't wanna read the Bible and read what happens to people that messes with orphans and widows. These are not two sets of people you wanna mess with. God is not happy with you when you mess with these people. Widows and orphans are a protected class. Hello. You just don't wanna be under that microscope. It's not a good place to be. You wanna be on the other side. You wanna be blessings to widows and blessings to orphans. This is is the side you want to be on of this equation. Well, you get what you pay for.

[Advertisement Voice]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Oil. House prices continue to go up. Last month the median house price, that's the middle house price in America, went up to a little over $425,000. That's typical for the spring market that we continue to See bumps and increases even in a fairly slow market like we got right now. If you want to learn more about housing market trends because you're thinking about how do I get ready for this when it's time to jump in, all that kind of stuff. We've got all kinds of mortgage rate updates, price market, market upgrades, market trends, all kinds of [e-mail] market help you buy or sell with confidence. Ramseysolutions.com market and of course you click in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Jenna is in Utah. Hi, Jenna, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm doing well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. What's up?

[Caller]

My husband's grandpa wants to buy us a car and my husband thinks this is a great idea to help us on our financial journey. And I think it's a bad idea. He says I'm just being too proud.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is it a bad idea?

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah,

[Caller]

well, he would. The stipulation on this purchase is that we would have to buy it from a dealership so it would have some kind of warranty.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

We don't have any money to contribute to this purchase because we just replaced the main water line to our house.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Is he buying it in cash?

[Caller]

I believe that's the plan. He would be willing to spend $19,000 and I'm just worried that's a very precise, weird number. It's the amount that he was told by his financial person would not put him at risk for taxes or something. I'm not sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gift tax? Gift tax, that is correct. Okay, I want to know deeper than is he married? Oh, no, you're married, so it could be double. His financial person's wrong. He could actually give you 38,000 because he could give you 19 and give your husband 19. Is he wanting you to finance this or he just wants to give you the cash and he wants to go buy a car?

[Caller]

He wants to go buy the car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what is the downside of this for you? Why are you saying this is not a good idea?

[Caller]

I'm concerned that I, I guess it does sound silly that it's not going to be a car that I'm really going to like. I've been trying to save up for a nice car. I want to get a big SUV and I don't want to have a car that I feel like I have to keep driving year after year because it was a gift.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Are you a two car family? My point in asking, that is what stops My point in asking that is what would stop the car that grandfather buys Reverting to your husband. And then you. When you're ready to buy the car you want. Buying the car you want.

[Caller]

The car that we have right now barely fits all of us and so we could get another car.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah. My point is, whatever car you get now is probably better than the cars you have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jenna, there's something else going on. You're not telling the whole story. Guys trying to give you a $19,000 car and you're bitching about it.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I don't understand. You don't like him.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't figure out why you don't like him. Is he. Is he going to come over to your house and visit to make sure you shine the car? Is he a jerk? What's going on?

[Caller]

No, he's a nice guy. He has been a little critical lately, but I mean, I don't like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, he's been critical. Unsolicited critical.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And yeah. You're afraid that if you take a car from him that gives him permission to be all full on critical.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's fair. That's a fair concern.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

You don't have to take the gift if you think there's going to be strings attached. If you think it's going to add strain, you don't have to take it. But at the same time, if somebody is just blessing you and it's. It is your pride or it is something that you're coming up with in your mind that's going to block this. Like, we want to see that clearly with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait a minute too. When you're talking about buying the car you want, are you talking about buying that car on payments?

[Caller]

I'm sorry, what was that?

[Dave Ramsey]

When you're talking about buying the car you want to buy apart from grandpa's gift. We're not taking grandpa's gift and we're not taking it because he's critical and he'll be hypercritical if he gives you a gift and because you want to go buy a car that's big enough for your whole family because the car you have barreling now holds your family and you want to buy a car that holds your family. Are you talking about taking out car payments?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're going to pay cash for the car of your dream that you were talking about a while ago?

[Caller]

Yeah. I would like to spend about $30,000 on a car you don't have.

[Dave Ramsey]

$30,000.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

How close are you to saving that?

[Caller]

We are set back to zero after replacing the main water line.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how I would like to spend $30,000 I have no money. How does that compute?

[Caller]

No, so what I wanted to do was get a small car for my husband now and then sell it in a year or two when we have more money as we've been saving. But I'm worried that if we want to sell a car, especially if it's the car that we've been gifted in a year or two from now, that that's not going to go over well.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I, I, I'm going to be honest with you. I think that there's just as much issue on your end as there is on grandad's end. I think you both have something that is contributing negatively to this equation. I, I, I have to say I,

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want to take grandpa's $19,000 gift cuz I want to buy a $30,000 car, but I have no money. This is not a logical sentence.

[Caller]

Okay, that's fair.

That's fair.

You know, that's my husband's concern is that I'm, is he trying?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not pride. So here's what I would do. With what I have heard and I'm not sure, still not sure I got all of it. But with what I have heard, I would suggest that you either don't take the gift and just start saving and work your plan and say thank you grandpa, I appreciate that very much. Or you visit with your husband or your husband visits, not you. You don't say a word. He visits with his grandpa and says, grandpa, we would like to take the gift but we have to be able to, we have to know that it's a true gift and the gift cannot come with criticism from you. You critiquing everything we're doing in the future. You can't come over here and tell us how to live if that's what comes with a gift. We can't take the gift. And, and we have to be able, Grandpa, appreciate the gift, honor the gift. But if we take the gift, it's a gift and if I'm going to sell it a month later I might. And so if you're not good with not coming over and sticking your nose in our business, Grandpa, and you're not good with the fact that I own the stinking car and if I want to trade it later, I feel free to do so. If you're not good with those things, if that's not going to go over well, to use your phrase, grandpa, then I can't take your gift. That's my two stipulations. And I do appreciate the offer but if the offer comes with me being trapped in the car and you coming over here and sticking your nose up my business all the time, this ain't gonna. I don't need the car.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, you can be a little bit nicer than that, but that's the message needs to be delivered. And if Grandpa goes. No, honey, y' all do whatever you want. I just got some extra money. Y' all are struggling young couple. I love you, and I just want you to win, and I'm trying to help. If you want to sell it the next day after I give it to you, that's fine. But I want you to get a good, solid car those babies can ride in and be safe. I want it to have a warranty. I don't agree with that. It's a dumb idea. But if he wants to do that, it's his gift. That's fine.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Is the husband concerned whatsoever that this is a bad idea?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he's used to this family script where people stick their nose in where they're not supposed to. So he didn't bother him a bit?

[Caller]

No, it doesn't bother him at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Got it.

[Caller]

Got it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get used to your family's dysfunction and you don't smell it, right? Yeah, that's. We all do. I mean, we all have that. And so.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Yeah. But. But if he. If your husband is willing to do that, you don't need to say a word because you'll be the Wicked Witch of the West. You'll get painted up as the ungrateful little woman that married his grandson.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need that paintbrush. So just.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I think she might already be painted up like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just be very, very quiet. Yes, there's wabbits. Be very quiet.

[Caller]

It's been 10 years, and things are getting better.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So anyway, yeah, I think you just back off. But also not taking it. And it's not because you're prideful. It's because I see boundary danger.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

You want to preserve the relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

Both things are boundary violations. I'm not allowed to sell a car I own. That's a boundary violation because it won't go over well. And I'm. And. And you're going to come over here and tell me how to live my life because you gave me 19 whole thousand dollars? No, thank you. I'll pass. That's not pride. That's wisdom. So walking away from this unless those two things are cleared up is a good idea. I agree with you. And it's not because you're prideful. You're getting ready to hit the road this summer. You want to feel confident your car is ready to go. But when you don't fully understand what's going on under the hood, it's easier to either ignore something important or spend money you didn't need to. Because, let's be honest, you're not a mechanic and you shouldn't have to be. That's why we trust Christian Brothers Automotive, the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey Show. They bring clarity to car repairs and maintenance with their digital vehicle inspections. You can actually see what your technician sees, understand what needs attention now and what can wait so you can make wise decisions without second guessing. Listen when you're counting on your car to get you where you need to be. You don't want uncertainty. You want confidence. And Christian Brothers stands behind their work with the nice difference warranty. Three years or 36,000 miles, whichever benefits you more. Go to cbac.comramsey to schedule your service and get 10% off your visit. That's cbac.comramsey 10% off up to a 250 value. See store for details. You know when you change your life? When you finally say, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, and you yell, I've had it. That's when you change. Until then, it's all theory and discussion and intellectual exercise, but nothing changes until you get really, really, really, I've had it. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. If you're tired of working so hard and getting nowhere, well, you got to do something different to get something different. Hello? If you don't like the cake you're making, it turns out chocolate. Maybe you ought to change the recipe. Or maybe you wanted chocolate. I want chocolate, actually. So if I keep getting vanilla, I need to change the recipe, right? So if you don't like what's happening, you need to change something. And one good idea is jump on everydollar and start laying out a game plan for changing your life. It's called called a budget. It's called plan. It's called a strategy. It's a tactical move. And you don't have to live this way. Normal's broke. The EveryDollar budgeting app helps you find extra money every month, builds you a personalized plan. You get out of debt, and you become wealthy. It really does work. In the first 15 minutes, you're gonna find thousands of dollars in hidden margin. You're gonna feel like you got a raise. Right now, it's free to download the EveryDollar app and get started. You can do that at Google Play or in the App Store, but it's not really free because you have to say, I've had it. And when you say I've had it, that's not free. It's going to cost you something. We're not going to charge you because it's free from us, but it's going to cost you something. Get ready to pay a price if you want to win. No one wins without paying a price. Bri is with us. Bree is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hi, Bri. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my husband and I worked diligently to be on track to retire at 55, if not sooner.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Caller]

Until we've realized that I can't touch my retirement until 59 and a half. And now I'm not sure what to do with my money.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 30. He's 33.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you got plenty of time, don't. You sound like you're freaking out. So what are you going to do from 55 to 85? Nothing.

[Caller]

I don't know. I. I would love to have the ability to do nothing.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

You want to be work optional?

[Caller]

Yeah, exactly. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you have in your 401ks and so forth now?

[Caller]

So combined we're at about 530.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent job. Okay. And what do y' all make?

[Caller]

About 170 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent. And you're debt free except your house or including your house.

[Caller]

Except our house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you all on the home? How much?

[Caller]

300. 3,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. Okay, cool. You're doing so good. There's nothing to panic about now. So the answer to your question from me, and I'll let Jade chime in too, has two parts. One is I would continue to work the baby steps first and foremost. And that's putting 15% of your income away in retirement. 59 and a half accessible accounts, which you're worried about, and get your house paid off. You're going to do that in plenty of time when the house is paid off then to start funding a bridge, because the bridge is not that big a bridge. You're only talking about four years. And so we only need 400 grand. And how fast can you build up 400 grand? Really, really fast. When you start putting your whole house payment away.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, I mean, really, you probably need 300 grand. Cause it's actually going to be earning because you're going to put it in like an S&P 500. And so if you start that, you know you're probably going to pay off the house in the next four or five years, the way you're going. And you've got 15. And by the way, in seven years you're going to have a million. No, in about five years, because you're adding to it about five years, you're going to have a million in your 401k. And worst case is something comes along and stubs your toe and you're sitting there at 50 and you have five years and you still, still don't have any bridge money built and you still think you want to get there. But by then you've got $3 million in your 401k. Well, stop your 401k for a little while and just build your bridge.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

What split would you do?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd do 100% if you did that. But here's the thing. That scenario is not going to happen because you would have to have something pretty severe happen to cause you to have not had the house paid off. And then start putting the house money aside because if you start putting your whole house payment away, you know, you start putting what, 40,000 bucks a year away, you're going to have, you're in 400,000 in about 20 minutes. It goes really, really fast.

[Caller]

Okay, and you just would put that in stock?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, just an S&P 500. You want to put it in something that's called a low, like an S&P 500 index because it's a low turnover ratio. If the mutual fund is not in a retirement account and they sell the stocks inside of it, it creates taxes every year. But if it's in a low turnover mutual fund, meaning they don't sell the tax, sell the stocks inside of it very often, like hardly at all. Like a 5% turnover ratio or less, which is what an S&P 500 index fund would be. They're not going to turn those stocks over. They just sit on them. And so that will grow without taxes until you sell. And so it grows a capital gains rate and not an ordinary income rate. When you do sell it, if you keep it over a year and it grows without taxes. Because see, if you buy a stock, if you buy a mutual fund or anything, and it's not, you buy a stock in Home depot and it's $55. I made that up. I don't even know what Home Depot is. But okay, it's $55 and it goes to $155. You don't pay taxes on the $100 in growth until you sell it. And same goes true of a mutual fund where they're not selling the stocks. You don't pay any taxes on it until you sell it it. And so you could start that at 50 and you will be just fine. But I think you're going to be there way earlier than that. And, yeah, you should look at building some wealth outside of retirement accounts because you're going to easily have $10 million in retirement.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You guys are killing it. You're doing.

[Caller]

So all this money that I can't

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

touch, how did you do it? How did you save so much money so quickly, so young? Did you avoid debt? Like, what was the.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, my husband and I both avoided debt. I had a little bit of student loans that I paid off pretty quick. And then he just. We're frugal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, here's the thing. We turned over a house two times.

[Caller]

We made a couple hundred.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, very good. You are doing way better than the emotion that is in your voice two different times in this conversation that said the money is trapped. And it's like too much drama in that, okay, you've got it. You've got. You're okay. You're going to be wealthy. You're okay. You just need to follow a plan through. And there's no, like, there's no alternative. We're going to be trapped. All this. We're going to have $10 million and it's trapped. Oh, darn. I hate it when that happens, you know? So be okay, get the house paid off and then start building some other wealth. And. And the numbers never turn out like you're projecting. When you're 30, it's good to project out because it gives you peace and says, I'm going to retire with dignity. I don't have to eat Alpo. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And I would go on to ramseysolutions.com and look at the investing calculator, and then you can run out and say, okay, at the current rate, we're investing 15%. How quickly do we need to pay off our mortgage so that we can bump up that 15% so that we can still put 15% in the 401ks

[Dave Ramsey]

and then put another percentage plus some other.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And put it in the brokerage and

[Dave Ramsey]

put that in a good S and P. Yep. And let that sucker ride.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And then once you see. But once you see the numbers, then you can say, okay, I have a plan. I don't have to be dramatic.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're going to be okay. You got lots of times, lots of times in the next 20 years that you can stop adding to your 401k and still make your bridge.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And still end up with millions of dollars. So don't stop now. That's way premature. And here's the other thing. It's okay to have, quote, work optional, which means you financially are able to do things. But work's really not optional.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

You need it for your brain.

[Dave Ramsey]

You should do something with your life. You're way too talented to sit on your butt and binge watch Netflix. You should do so something with your life. And so don't work. Optional is fine, but then go work. Okay? I haven't had to work in decades. I work because I love this. Let me tell you something I see happen way too often. People fall behind on their bills and they wait. They hope it will work itself out. It won't. That's why I recommend Guardian Litigation Group. Here's the deal. If you've missed payments, collectors are calling, or if you're getting letters threatening legal action, that's not something to ignore. That's the moment to deal with it. Because when you do nothing, it escalates. They can take you to court, and if you don't respond, they can win by default. And that gets expensive fast. Guardian Litigation isn't a call center. They're an actual law firm. From day one, you're assigned an attorney to represent you. So if things do escalate, you're not scrambling and you're not hit with surprise legal fees. Guardian Litigation only gets paid when the debt is negotiated and you accept the settlement offer. This isn't about shortcuts. It's about dealing with the problem before it gets worse. Go to guardianlit.com Ramsey today. That's guardianlit.com Ramsey today.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Attorney Advertising results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Philip is in Memphis. Hi, Philip. How are you?

[Caller]

Good, Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey. So I racked up a little over 30,000 debt and I was wondering if I should try and pay it off or just file for bankruptcy because I'm kind of living paycheck to paycheck with all that debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you owe it on? What kind of debt?

[Caller]

Credit cards, personal loans. I have a couple things in collections Now.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

What caused you to fall on such a hard time that you were putting that much debt on credit cards and personal loans? Did you lose a job or.

[Caller]

No. I Started gambling last year.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You ran up 30,000 in one year. You ran up 30K. Wait a minute, stop. You ran up 30K in one year?

[Caller]

Yeah, I was winning pretty big and then I just started losing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Apparently not.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Is this sports betting?

[Caller]

No, this is in person sometimes online casinos. No sports.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long has it been since you gambled?

[Caller]

Two days.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let's be real clear. We you identified in the first minute and a half that I know you that you have a problem gambling and that it has run you up close to bankruptcy and yet you continue.

[Caller]

Yes sir, I'm just trying to chase the one.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry,

[Caller]

I'm just trying to chase the wind back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you considered you're trying to take the win back? Is that what you said?

[Caller]

I'm trying to win the money back?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you have all the symptoms of someone who has a gambling addiction.

[Caller]

It's not an addiction because I could stop right now.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Then why don't you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Because he's trying to win and you've lost $30,000 and you're bank talking to me about bankruptcy. This is illogical, hun. You've got to figure out what causes the problem and stop what causes the problem. The debt is not the problem, it's a symptom. The problem is the gambling. And so if you file bankruptcy on this and you continue to gamble, you did not fix the problem. You're under the illusion that you're good at this and you're not. You suck at it. You're $30,000 in the hole.

[Caller]

I just want to be out of the clear so I can stop living paycheck to paycheck.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the way you do that is you stop first

[Caller]

and then for the

[Dave Ramsey]

night and then never, never go back again. Never go back again. You need to get on, you need to get online and get in touch with Gamblers Anonymous and you sit in a group and you never need to never play cards again. You can't handle it. You're not good at owns you right now.

[Caller]

Only problem I see with is just the number but I don't think it's really like an addiction or anything.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

We were you called us and based on your logic we both think that you do have an addiction. So there's something about you here's there's something about you that trusts us. Otherwise you wouldn't have called in.

[Caller]

So as Chad GBT and they said

[Dave Ramsey]

to file for bankruptcy chat GPT just knows everything. It's kind of like God no, it's

[Caller]

not going to Get a human answer because all my friends didn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, because the CHAT GPT didn't challenge you on. On what's really going on. It just said you had $30,000. And I'm living paycheck to paycheck, and ChatGPT has never had to live 30 years later still filling out forms that says, have you ever filed bankruptcy? And for the rest of your life, you have to say yes.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And if you do it, sure, it could clear your debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you're not bankrupt. You're gambling too much.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And if you don't stop that, then you'll be right back where you started. So that's not the solution to the problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

100% chance you're going to be back in debt again after you're bankrupt. Bankruptcy. If you don't stop the gambling. 100%. You don't see that, do you? You think you follow? You just quit gambling.

[Caller]

I mean, what if I just put my cards in collections?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, what if you stopped gambling?

[Caller]

I mean, that could work too, but,

[Dave Ramsey]

yeah, that would work faster.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

24.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, here's the thing. 100%. I've been doing coaching with people with financial problems for 10 years longer than you've been alive for 35 years. Okay. And one of the things, sadly, I've gotten to spend a lot of time with Philip, is people who are addicted to something. Because if you're addicted to cocaine, if you're addicted to pornography, if you're addicted to gambling, if you're addicted to something, 100% of addicts are broke. Eventually, 100% probability, if you're addicted to something, it eventually causes you to be broke. And it'll usually also cause you to lose all of your relationships, too. And so you've got two people here that know what we're talking about, that love you. We're not trying to get anything from you. We're not making a dime on this. There's no poker chips in the middle of the table. There's no bluff. It's just two people looking at you, telling you the truth. You're not bankrupt. You need three extra jobs, a detailed plan, and quit gambling. And you have a problem gambling. You're getting a high from it. You're getting a dopamine hit, and you're going back, and you're saying all the lines. You know what addicts always say? I can stop anytime I want. You know what addicts always say? I'm waiting on the next win. I'm waiting on the next high. These Are. These are classic. If you read addiction literature, it sounds like your verbiage philosopher. And so, I mean, we're not professional counselors, but, dude, I've worked with thousands of addicts, and it's really distressing to hear the way you're talking. I'm scared for you, hon. I'm scared for you. If I could put my arm around you and pray for you right now, I would. So I will be at the commercial break. I can promise you that. But you're not going to get a good quality of life until you stop this. Because it's not blessing you, it's not bringing good things to your life, and it's costing you money. And you're believing a lie. The mythology in your language is enormous. So please get some help. Go see Gamblers Anonymous. Stop now. Now. Stop now and go be the man you're supposed to be, which is a guy who's productive and prosperous and is worthy of the hand of a good woman and becomes a great dad someday. And go be that guy. Don't be some guy who's looking for the next win. That's such a pitiful statement. Oh, you can do this. I promise you, you can do it. And we'll help you. You call us back, we'll always tell you the truth. Truth. Even if you don't like it sometimes. Especially if you don't like it. But you're not. You're not bankrupt. $30,000 is not enough to file bankruptcy on you. There's lots of ways you can pay that off. Stop paying your cards. Work your way right through it. You can get with guardian litigation. They'll set up a plan, do it all. But they will not set it up for you if you're. If you have symptoms of addiction because they know that you're not going to follow through. You can't do a plan when you're continually going back and losing money every night. Can't get out of a hole while you're digging out the bottom.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Oh, no, you can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, guys, just to recap a minute and set Philip's case aside for a second, the fastest growing addiction in America that is destroying more households than anything else is online porn. It has gotten completely out of control. It generates more revenue than 100% of the professional sports put together, including NASCAR, baseball, football, soccer, basketball, NBA, MLB. Every single sport. Billions and billions of dollars of sports added up. Don't keep up with the porn industry in America and the number of people who are losing their families and losing their lives to it is astronomical. The second fastest growing right now, gambling. And the reason it's the fastest growing is online accessibility on both of those. Porn and gambling by far the fastest. And sports betting among young men in their 20s. It's destroying those them, destroying them. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the fair winds Credit Union Studios Christine is in Oklahoma. Hi Christine, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good, how are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's good?

[Caller]

So I had a question related to my career. I'm in my first year as an attorney so I graduated last May, took the bar eight months pregnant, passed the bar, had my baby in September, start work as a two months later and I'm currently working right now and I really don't like it. I took out 115k in student loans to get this degree and I really liked law school but I am not liking it right now and so I'm kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

What did you love about law school?

[Caller]

I loved learning about the law, I loved the reading. What I'm struggling with right now is a lot of the billable hours. The job I'm in is a pretty fast paced, high earning firm and so the billable hour requirements are pretty high and with a nine month old I'm just really struggling.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Is it the. So it's not the work, it's the pace that you have to do the work because of the baby?

[Caller]

Yeah. I would like to be home with her more and have more flexibility and I, I think when I, when I went into law school I wasn't planning on having a baby till a couple years down the road into my career and I wasn't anticipating feeling so much more like I just want to be home with her.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

So I mean that's fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think that Are you, you're obviously married. What, what does your husband make?

[Caller]

He makes about 60, 65K. He's a high school teacher and football coach.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And, and you make what at the high powered, high billing law firm?

[Caller]

I make 105 based and I got a sign on bonus of 10 so.

[Dave Ramsey]

A bonus of 10?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you've been a lawyer since September?

[Caller]

Since. Yeah. So I, well I passed the bar in September and I started working as an attorney in November. That's when I went back to work after the baby.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so seven months.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Have you explored other options where the pace is not quite so fast or the hours aren't as high?

[Caller]

I have. So I, I'm just not sure being in my first year. Well, for one I'm in Oklahoma and A lot of the jobs that aren't as high billing don't pay as much. And with a lot of student loans, I thought maybe I could last a year or two, get them knocked out and be done with it, and then go do whatever.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I mean, how quickly can you pay off 15,000 on 170,000?

[Dave Ramsey]

115,000.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Oh, I'm sorry, I misheard and I saw it on there. Okay, 115,000?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, 115. And then my husband has like 12k, so around 130. I mean, I think I could get it knocked out pretty quick. I mean, it wouldn't be less than a year, though.

[Dave Ramsey]

With that amount, it would take 18 months.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, go ahead. Sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's two things we can do. One is I think you're extrapolating the situation that you're in to all lawyers, and all lawyers don't face what you're facing. So. So there's other ways to utilize the law degree and make a good living. Maybe not make what you're making at this instance seven or ten months into your career. That's possible. You're not going to make more that. You're probably not going to make this if you did something else. But you can't go postpartum and say, I'm going to throw away the amount of years and the amount of money invested into this. You know, just based on the fact that I'm pretty stressed out at this particular moment. Instead, we have to look at other ways to dial the stress down without going all the way to zero.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so if you can't, and I can't put myself in your skin, only you and your husband can prayerfully consider this. If you can't suck it up and run the gauntlet for 18 months and clear the student loan, then the second thing, that's actually the best thing, but that's very hard to do. And I'm not saying everybody can do that, and I'm not saying you have to. I'm just saying that's option one. That's actually plan A. Okay. Plan B would be how can we utilize the law degree? Maybe make more, but maybe make a little less and be in a situation where I can actually breathe. And I'm not just about to punch everybody out because I'm so stressed out all the time and I'm trying to raise a baby. And so that's cool. That's fine. So that's position B, but I'm not going all the way to position Z where we do nothing yeah.

[Caller]

And I'm not.

[Dave Ramsey]

You gave up the option of being a full time mom, sit at home with the baby. When you made the decision to go $115,000 in debt, you gave that up.

[Caller]

I agree 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I don't want to not work. I've never been that type of person that can just sit around. I mean, that's kind of why I went to law.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

You need option B. You need an option that will allow you to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, if. And here's the thing, if you can get a real clear picture, like actually go interview for the job for option B, and you know, it's there sometimes if I have at least that, I don't feel as trapped and then I can gut something out for a little while longer.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah. Because, you know, if you have to

[Dave Ramsey]

pull that, but if it feels like this is extended for 10 years, it feels like it's forever. I just can't do it. I lose my hope, you know?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I agree. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably the way to go there. So, guys, Christine's obviously a very bright lady and I'm glad we were able to help her setting her particular situation and her particular self aside for a second. This is how the student loan crisis occurred. This is how we have almost $2 trillion now in student loan debt out there. Because we told people that your life, if you go get an education, your life is going to be exactly what you want it to be. And it never works out that way. I talked to a lady not long ago who's making $400,000 a year as an MD and she had a special needs child. And now she's faced with this desperate desire to be at home with a special needs child versus her $400,000 income and her $600,000 in student loan debt. And so she's trapped between this in that situation. That's a more extreme version of what Christine is facing. But, but as Christine so eloquently said, they don't tell you this when you're in law school.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

No, they don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

That as soon as you hold that baby in your arms, things change. Things change. And you can't anticipate this until you're in it. And you can't see that coming. It's impossible. They don't tell you this when they say, oh, you're going to make so much more money because you got a degree.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah. When you're in your late teens and mid-20s, you're not thinking about the day you might have a baby. You're thinking about getting your education and doing whatever it takes to do something.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not thinking about all the, that's a positive thing that could happen, but all the negative things that can happen.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

The tragedies that can come across your path and those things happen to people every day.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, don't, don't sign up for these trips because you get trapped. The borrower is slave to the lender. And Jesus said it's hard to serve two masters. You'll hate one and love the other. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through reasons, money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. Today's Ramsey SHOW Question of the day is brought to you by why Refi defaulted? Private student loans can derive derail your money plans, but why Refi helps borrowers explore refinancing options that'll help you get on track again. Learn more@why refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay, today's question comes from Keith in California. He says, my wife and I are in baby step two with $10,000 of remaining debt. We generally agree on our budget, but. But we have one reoccurring disagreement. I spend about $40 every three months on a haircut, which fits our budget. My wife would prefer that I visit a professional barber every month at a cost of around $110 per visit. Her argument is that it makes me look better, it helps my professional image, and I love this one. It makes her feel better when my hair and beard are styled. I don't think the barber is a waste of money, but my concern is that a 110 monthly bill doesn't seem to fit our budget or align with the intensity of baby step two. Is this the type of expense that should wait until we're debt free or is it reasonable to include it in the budget because of the personal and professional benefits? I have some opinions on this.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't wait because I don't.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

My first thought is. My first thought is, is this woman is desperate like there's something that she. She's trying to be nice, but it sounds like you're really in the need of some grooming to be done. That's what I mean.

[Dave Ramsey]

He goes and gets a $40 haircut.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

They don't groom them every three months. Three months. That's a quarter. That's a long time. And my. His beard. I. I'm imagining this guy with a long beard. You know, if you don't condition your beard, it's scraggly, starts smelling weird. I think that this is a desperate woman speaking. However you are on baby step two. Is there a way. Here's what comes to mind. Can you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't have a point of perspective, so I have to interrupt you. Okay. What does Sam spend?

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I think it's probably around 110 or so a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cause I think George Camel spends somewhere around $1,400aminute. I'm kidding. I made that up.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Well, George has more hair than Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

George Camel, he's got serious hair.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

He does.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he works at it really hard.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I think the amount is not an abnormal amount that she said.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I was. Cause I don't have nothing to base it on because I haven't been to a barber in 30 years. So I don't know.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I don't think. I mean, what do you guys think? James, you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

James, you're. Well coughed. I mean, I coifed. I get my hair cut every five weeks, and it's like 50 bucks, maybe.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

50 bucks? Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I do, like, a membership thing, so I don't know what it is. Every single time.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

So. That being said, I think there's. You could probably split the difference. I think you can go more than once a quarter, and I think that you can spend less than $110 a month. I think you could probably spend 60 or $70 and do it every year in California.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does that matter?

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

That might matter. He's having Esteban do his. Do his beard.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't tell if we're dealing with a ZZ Top beard here or what. A smelly beard. I didn't run.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

You got to condition it with the oil. He. Yeah, I think. I didn't know if this was a point of contention. She's not digging what's going on there, but. Or you could shave the beard. That's half of the haircut. Go clean shaven and just do the. The top layer could do that. There's options here. I think you need to meet your wife halfway, because, like he says, this Is there. There are personal benefits, it sounds like on the line, personal and professional. And for that reason I'm gonna say half the budget. What do you say?

[Dave Ramsey]

The first thing that occurs to me is it's just not a lot of money we're talking about.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

No, it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, I mean, unless they don't

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

make hardly any money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. They live in California, so I don't. I don't know. I mean, it's not. It's not a lot of money difference. But I also see a lot of. I mean, you can get a haircut and have a professional image without going over the top. I suppose. I haven't never done it, so I don't know.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I mean, he might be getting a really bad sports clips haircut for $40 once a quarter.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that can make you look really unprofessional.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not the best, I guess. They're not going to be a sponsor.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Sorry. Sports clips, you know, when they accidentally cut off too much a year sideburns, a bad haircut. It's not blended.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

You've never had a bad haircut, so maybe you don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There's just so many things I could say that are not funny here, but

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I would love to hear just one of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

I really, I mean, it's like the guy that called in the other day about hair replacement and I'm like, I'm not the guy to ask. Like hair plugs, obviously I did a pass on that one. And so, you know, I'm not the guy to ask. I'm not sympathetic or even empathetic. So this is so interesting.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Did they want to go into debt for the hair plugs?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we wanted to listen to it, use the house down payment. Wow, that got a hard no.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

But I gotta go back and listen to that one.

[Dave Ramsey]

House is better than shallow.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

So the real difference discussion is if, I mean, there's a deeper discussion here. There's the money side of it. But then it's like if one of your spouses is saying that's an unattractive quality. I need you to do something about that. I feel like you need to run and run and fix that. What do you think?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's why God sent you them. They take care of your blind spots. But. Yeah, but the thing that's bothering me, I.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Is it the 110?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no. It's this idea that this, that somehow you can't get a good haircut except this one that makes you professional. And I'm Just going, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Judging from the number, I think that he's probably getting the worst haircut you can get. And she's probably like, can you just go to a normal barber? Do you have to go to the discount place? Can you just go and get a, get a fine haircut and can you just please get it done once a month, please? That's what I, that's what I'm hearing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I have no idea. Okay. I really, I really just don't have anything to add. Intelligent. John is in Indianapolis. Hey, John, what's up?

[Caller]

How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Ask me something I know the answer to, please.

[Caller]

So I have completed. I've completed baby steps one through four. I'm on number five.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good.

[Caller]

Trying to figure out how much I should be contributing to 529 account. I have $13 extra a month after my 15% of my household income saved, so I'm really not clearing a bunch at the end.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So you're really not putting anything in your 529.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

How many.

[Dave Ramsey]

$13 a month is not going to do it. Yeah.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

How many children do you have?

[Caller]

Just one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What's your household income?

[Caller]

Single? 117.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Yeah. Until some things shift around in your budget, you're probably just not starting your baby step five. That's okay. It's why it's after number four. Four is first, five is second, six this next. I mean, that's why we have an order. They're numbered that way for a reason. And do them in that order.

[Caller]

Quarter.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're, you're not going to go the rest of your life and do nothing for college, but you may not be able to do something substantial for right now. And you can't open a mutual fund account for 13amonth. They don't have them.

[Caller]

Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, that's just. If you want to pile that money in the corner or something and have junior a little piggy bank or something, that's okay.

[Caller]

But how much do you need for a 529 account?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, if you. What I would recommend people do, and I don't want you to do this too stringently today because you can't really do anything today and we don't want you stressed out or anything, but if you wanted to actually have a mathematical target, you could just contact your, you know, the University of Indiana, your state school. Right. And say, or whatever in state. In state school tuition, which is usually going to be right now in the 1012 grand range, something like that. Plus, plus room and board times four. And so, okay, that's our target and we've got a lot of years to get there. So we will be accruing some gains on the mutual fund, some interest, so to speak. And so I don't have to have that much in actual dollars because some of it's going to be growth. And I'm going to put it in a 529 and then you can sit down with your Smart Vista Pro and figure out what per month you need to do to hit that target. But you don't have to worry about that today. You can't do it today.

[George Camel]

Hey guys, George Camel here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it? You run into Target for one thing and Somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles. Just me. Okay. Well that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money. So it does whatever it wants. And that's why we created EveryDollar. It's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money. Everydollar is simple. It's clear and it helps track where your money's actually going to going. Plus you get daily lessons to DOs and reminders along the way. It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give EveryDollar a full time job. Go download EveryDollar for free on the App Store or Google Play.

[Dave Ramsey]

The right insurance acts as defense while you are on offense doing your investing. And you gotta have both sides of the ball if you're gonna win the game. Hello. You know you want the right kinds of coverage, not the rip off coverage, not the stuff that doesn't matter. And our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage and if you're paying too much for for it. And we give you a personalized action plan with some clear next steps so you can get real clear Ramsey footprint right there on your insurance coverage. We don't sell insurance. We teach. And we will teach you what you're supposed to have and what not supposed to have and help you with this completely free. Take the free coverage checkup and find out if you got the protection you need. Ramseysolutions.com checkup Kristen is in Connecticut. Hi Kristen, how are you?

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

You.

[Caller]

Hi. Oh my goodness gracious. Thank you all so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you. What's up.

[Caller]

So I am looking for advice. My husband and I, we were on baby step number two, working on three, and now we're back to number one. My husband is in sales, and that occupation requires work expenses to be paid up front, like, out of our pocket. It does get reimbursed, but it takes two. So my ask is, how do you recommend taking our. My husband and I's personal income, our family expenses, and separating it from his work expenses? In addition, without using credit cards, what

[Dave Ramsey]

does the monthly expense run?

[Caller]

It can range because it really depends if he travels or not, which he travels a couple times a month. So. So the expenses.

[Dave Ramsey]

In a month. In a month. It takes a month for it to come back. What does he spend

[Caller]

between. I would say between three. Like, 3,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

Our combined is 374.

[Dave Ramsey]

And why is $3,000 a problem?

[Caller]

$30,000 a month to 6,000. Well, we are investing a lot. We do have a lot of bills, but, like, for example, I would say, like, an Uber last month. Uber, $800. And we have client dinners.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's $3,000 out of $30,000. Why is that a problem?

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Even if it were sick,

[Dave Ramsey]

You're spending a lot on other stuff.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot spent on restaurants and.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Right, but all it takes, Kristen, is for one month for you guys to set that $6,000 aside, put $5,000 in

[Dave Ramsey]

on a separate checking account and put a debit card on it and spend it down, turn in the receipts, they give you 5,000 back from the company. They put the 5,000 DOL back in that account, spend it down, turn in the receipts, they give you 5,000 back from the company. You put it in that account. All you gotta do is fund it one time and prime the pump, and then it recycles. But you're acting like him being on the road and having expenses as your household problem. It's not. You have $30,000 a month coming in, and you've. You put a bullseye on this three grand, like it's the problem. It's not. You guys got other problems. You're spending like you're in Congress at home.

[Caller]

We don't have 30,000 coming in.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have 360,000.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

It's because you're investing a ton. I get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much are you investing?

[Caller]

Yeah, we're asking just about total. Like, 15 or. Sorry, sorry. 10. Oh, I have here 11%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, 11% between our LIRP.

[Caller]

Two IRAs. A LIRP of 5292 401ks then.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I still don't think that's even the problem. I think the problem is exactly what Dave said.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's $3,000 a month.

[Caller]

Huh?

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I think you guys are just spending without a plan. And we'd love to give you a plan because I wish that you were investing 15% body.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt do you guys have?

[Caller]

So our credit cards are 10,000. We. I do have a student loan of about 90,000 and our daycare is 2500amonth. The. The real kicker is our mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your mortgage?

[Caller]

Trying to get around that. How much is 10? About 10,000amonth. Okay.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

How long have you been making this kind of money? Money? Is this new for you or have you guys been earning like this for a while?

[Caller]

It is new. He got promoted a year ago, and then in January I got promoted. So I'm making an extra 13,000. So it wasn't always like this, but I think having a second checking account is a great idea. I would like to try that.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

When did you get the mortgage?

[Dave Ramsey]

You won't do anything to keep from facing the fact that you have a $10,000 mortgage that you can't afford. Board.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You worked really, really hard in this conversation. Never bring that up.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Is that new? Did that happen? Did that happen after the promotions or did you have that before?

[Caller]

So we had it before because we knew we were getting the promotions. So. But we can't sell the house until we've been here two years because we pay capital gains tax.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

But has it gone up that much in value? What's it gone up in value?

[Caller]

You.

I think it's projecting 100k a year. So we put 250k down and we're looking at getting about that in return.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So there's no capital gain because there's no gain.

[Caller]

Yeah, not right now.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

So you don't have to worry about.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you don't have to worry about capital gains. That's a false flag too.

[Caller]

Oh, so we don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you don't have a gain, you don't have capital gains to have X.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Okay, here, here's what I think. I think, I think you guys have gotten way, way, way, way, way, way, way too comfortable and way, way, way, way, way too sloppy. And I think it's coming back to bite you in the butt. And what a shame because you make such good money but you're not able to fully experience it because you guys have gotten so sloppy and you're just adding more

[Dave Ramsey]

mess yeah. So here's what I would tell you. Okay. Mathematically, his expense account is not your problem. Mathematically, because it's $3,000. Okay. Mathematically, 11% going into investments is not that much. It's only $3,000. That's only $6,000 between the two. So you can cover both of those with 3,000. 3,000. And so those really aren't the issue. But they're all. But they're straining or they're exposing a budget that is desperately strained by a house payment that you probably can't afford. So here's what I would try. I assume you like the house, right?

[Caller]

Dream house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, turned into a nightmare. But let's leave that to the side. The. Okay. I have been in sales my whole life. I grew up in a salesman's household. And for a long, long time as a salesman, I really thought, I didn't think this intellectually, but I acted as if I thought that I could out earn my bad decisions, out earn my stupidity. And so salesmen have a tendency to think that. Cause salesmen are glass half full people. They're optimists. I'll go knock another deal down. We'll be just fine. Huh? And this guy's obviously a very good salesman. He's even sold himself on getting into this mess. But salesmen have a tendency to those of us that are good at it, and I'm in the same bucket, that's how I can smell it. We have a tendency to try to out earn our own stupidity. So what I want you to do is I want you guys to get on a very, very tight budget. Stop your investing for a minute. Minute. Get the $5,000 in a separate account on the debit card so you can control the business expenses. And then we don't have arguments over $800 Uber or dinner out with clients because he's closing deals and he needs to do the 800 Uber and he needs to go out with dinner on clients because that's what, that's what's causing all this money to come in. And so we need to protect that. But we need to not spend the expense money on anything except business. Business reimbursable expenses. We need to stop investing temporarily, get the budget under control in detail and see if you can afford to keep this house. I think you're going to find you can't keep it, but I want you to try to keep it. First. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you [e-mail] insurance. Our scripture of the day. Proverbs 16:28. A troublemaker plants seeds of strife. Gossip separates the best of friends. Teddy Roosevelt said, if you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Oh wow. Plot twist.

[Dave Ramsey]

You gotta love Teddy Roosevelt. Donald in Boston. What? What's up?

[Caller]

Good afternoon Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Afternoon. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I'm 57, my wife's 64 and she wants to retire in three years. And I do not have a financial advisor and I'm worried about running out of money. So I've been looking around and I ran into somebody who wants to sell me an annuity which doesn't sound like the best idea. So I thought I would touch base and see what your thoughts on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You did not find a financial advisor. You found a life insurance agent that called himself a financial advisor. Because the typical financial advisor will not sell you an annuity except in very rare circumstances. They're not super bad, but they're not super good. It's the only way a life insurance agent can that doesn't have a securities license can get you into a mutual fund is through a variable annuity. And so they use that. So. No, don't do that and don't use that guy. So talk about your situation. How much money do you guys have saved now?

[Caller]

Well, in 401ks and IRAs we have about 950,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go. Millionaire.

[Caller]

Not there yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's awesome. You are there. I mean you own some other stuff more than that. So you've got a million dollar net worth. I'm proud of you. What's your house for worth

[Caller]

maybe 550

[Dave Ramsey]

and it's paid off. So there's your million four net worth. Million six net worth. Yeah. Way to go man. Proud of you. All start with nothing.

[Caller]

Yeah, we were, we were brought up poor but I didn't discover you till 10 years ago when I was buried in debt. And I owe pretty much my debt free lifestyle to you actually.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you did this whole thing in 10 years from 45 to 55 or 57. Way to go man. I'm proud of you. Of you. So hey man, you got plenty of money. Stay away from an annuity. You simply need to get these 401ks all set up and your huge nest egg set up to work for you. Now, instead of you working for it, you spent the last 10 years scratching and clawing and working to build it. And now it's time for it to work for you. So get online at Ramsey Solutions and get to a smartvestor pro and sit down and look at them and say, teach me me until I learn, I do nothing. So teach me. That's their job is to teach you. And once you understand it enough to explain it back to them or back to me, then you're ready to do some more investing and to move some of this stuff around and get it to working in your favor. You got plenty of time. So let me give you an example. Your wife wants to work how long? Three more years?

[Caller]

No, she'd quit today if she could. But I don't think, you know, I don't think we have the money.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

What's she earning?

[Caller]

She earned 60,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you earn?

[Caller]

175. But that's new as of three years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, if she quit, why can't she live on 175?

[Caller]

We could, but again, that. Not understanding how much money I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you're. You're saying you don't have enough money in the nest egg?

[Caller]

I'm thinking that we're going to run out of money when we're 85.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not. You're not. Let's walk through it. Okay? You're in great shape. Here's some numbers for you. Number one, I want you to go on Ramsey Solutions and pull up the calculator. Ramsey calculator retirement. And look at it and start running some numbers back and forth to get your head around this. Okay, but here's a couple of things you can remember is your Good. Is your 401k and your retirement invested in good mutual funds. Yeah, like we teach. I don't. Okay, so if they're averaging 10%, that million dollars will double in seven years. You'll be 64. You'll have $2 million if you don't touch it between now and then.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And when you're 71, if you haven't touched it still, which is not likely, you will have touched some of it. But when you're 71, the 2 million will be 4 million without adding anything to it. That's what it'll do. It'll double every seven years. If you're averaging 10%, a lump sum will. Okay. That's the math. Now, if that's happening, well, you roughly gonna have $2 million to work with because you're gonna live on. If you live on 175 between now and the time you're 64, you're gonna. Or 65, you're gonna. And then you retire, you know, and you can do that easy. You're gonna have $2 million sitting there waiting on you, plus whatever you add to it between now and then. So you probably have two, two and a half million dollars, okay? Now if you pull off 10% a year off of two and a half million dollars, that's $250,000 a year.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

If you pulled off half of that, that's 100 and a quarter a year.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

And you're not even touching the.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's still growing. If it's invested and it's making 10 or 12% and you're only pulling off 5 or 6, 7% to get back to the 150,000, you're not even touching the money. You're only pulling off the growth. Does that make sense?

[Caller]

Makes a lot of sense. I was more thinking that you're going to tell me I was in trouble financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're not in trouble. You've done very well, my friend. You're a millionaire. I'm so proud of you. I'm so happy the stuff we taught you worked. I knew it did, but I'm just so happy it worked for you. So you're just awesome, man. You're one of baby steps millionaires. You're one of America's success stories. You're proof that we can do it still. And you're proof that the communist college professor that's teaching people the socialism works is wrong. Okay? And so you're the guy, man. You did it. I'm so proud of you. So just keep being the proof. So you're gonna have two, two and a half million dollars if she quits today. And y' all live on 175. And you keep adding a little bit to your 401k and you sit down with your smartvest. And then if you want to live off of 5%, that's going to be 114. If you want to live off of 8% and it's growing at 10 or 12, it's still growing. You're not even touching it. So this runs to the point that you make this amount of money the rest of your entire life and you still leave $2.5 million to your heirs because you never even Touched the goose. You only lived off the golden egg eggs. And if you leave the principal alone and live off the income that it creates, or some of the income that it creates, it runs in perpetuation to infinity and beyond, as Buzz Lightyear said. Right. And that's it. So it just keeps going mathematically. So just have a big enough nest egg that you can live off of some of the income that it's creating and you'll be just fine.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

Love that. That's so exciting.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's amazing. This is what happens when you get out of debt at 45 years old and tear into this. Of course, they're making two and a quarter between them. Yeah, they're kicking it. They're kicking it.

[Jade Washer Ramsey]

I mean, when you have no debt and no house payment, that number that you need to pull off goes way down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Boom, boom. Way to go, Donald. You inspired me today, sir. Yeah, that's it. So that's what you're looking for. So a good rule of thumb is if you can put it in the market is averaged 11.8%. Okay. And so if you leave 4% in for inflation, so it's growing, you're not only not touching your nest egg, but it's growing by 4% a year, and you pulled off 8. That's about the most you should do. And so per million dollars, that's $80,000 a year. So if you got 2 million bucks, that's $160,000 a year. If you did that. Okay. And in his case, that's about right. Perfect. 120, 160 somewhere in there without, you know, he's got continuous to grow by inflation. So by the way, his 160next year is going to go up because the balance has gone up and he's living off a percentage of it. So it's 164 and then it's 169. And so every year, as inflation kicks, you're leaving 4% alone. Which, by the way, if you go back and look at the cpi, the Consumer Price Index, which is the measure of inflation, you will see over the last hundred years or so, it's averaged right around 4.2%. I know Biden had 9.7, but we've had other years, it was 3. It's averaged about 4.2%. I know Jimmy Carter had 10%, but Ronald Reagan had 4. Okay. And so you can argue about who, what, when, where, but go back, just look at the numbers. They're right there in the historical data. And you know, it's not a political. Math is not political. Very good, Donald. Score, baby. I love it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus,

[Caller]

Sam.