Steady Habits Build Lasting Wealth

Summary

The Ramsey Show: "Steady Habits Build Lasting Wealth"

Date: May 12, 2026
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-host: Rachel Cruze
Featuring: Dr. Henry Cloud

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers around the consistent, long-term habits needed to build and maintain wealth and a healthy financial life. Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruze answer diverse listener questions, focusing on practical steps, relational pitfalls, investing, and the psychological roots behind money choices. The importance of aligning values with a spouse, incremental wealth building, and the dangers of chasing financial shortcuts are recurring themes. Special guest Dr. Henry Cloud discusses his new book Your Desired Future and the psychology/strategy of goal achievement.

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Key Topics & Segments

1. Relationships and Money: Aligning Values

[01:06–08:39]

• Caller John (Louisville, KY): Struggles to get fiancée on board with the Ramsey plan; she has three kids, makes big purchases (new car) despite financial intentions.
• Discussion:
  • Money problems symbolize value systems and can deeply strain relationships.
  • Dave: “Number one cause of fights and divorce in marriage is money and money problems…not really the money, it’s what the money represents.” [04:00]
  • Rachel: Importance of shared vision in key areas—faith, money, in-laws, sex.
  • Big, defiant purchases signal underlying values conflicts.
  • Advice: Pre-marriage counseling, understanding the ‘why’ behind money behaviors, looking for patterns that may indicate future issues, considering character and long-term compatibility.
  • “Does this look like a life you want to sign up for in 10–15 years?” —Rachel [08:12]

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2. Investing 101: Starting to Build Wealth

[11:11–19:54]

• Caller Shane (Philadelphia): New higher earner, has money piling up, unsure where to invest.
• Dave’s Three Principles:
  1. Never invest in what you don’t understand: “Don’t ever put money in something you don’t understand.” [13:12]
  2. Go slow: “The tortoise wins the race over the hare every time.” [14:12]
  3. Work with people who teach, not just sell. [15:12]
• Ramsey Baby Steps Recap:
  • Pay off all debt except house before investing.
  • Build 3–6 months emergency fund.
  • Then invest 15% of income in 401(k), Roth IRAs, mutual funds.
• Rachel: Advocates high-yield savings accounts for emergency funds.
• Approach: Steady, boring, proven investments—“It’s not exciting, but it works.” —Rachel [19:53]

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3. Wrestling With a Large Mortgage

[21:45–29:37]

• Caller David (Madison, WI): Huge mortgage (40–50% of take-home), considering selling versus sticking it out.
• Key points:
  • Mathematical definition: “house poor” when mortgage consumes too much of income.
  • Sold assets (Shelby GT500) to pay off debt—use of aggressive, sacrificial moves.
  • Dave recommends potentially refinancing, dropping extra savings onto mortgage, and reassessing in a few years when equity builds.
  • "The good news—every single thing we ask, you knew the answer. You're dialed in." —Dave [29:37]

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4. Handling Windfalls: Insurance Payout Decisions

[29:51–31:09]

• Caller Emily (Montreal): Car stolen after paying off debt, large insurance payout. Should she buy same car or downsize?
• Dave: Car value should not exceed 50% of annual income. Don’t use all the payout; downsize and build emergency fund with remainder.

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5. Navigating Prenup Decisions & Marital Finances

[33:01–42:44]

• Caller Michael (Billings, MT): Getting engaged, different net worths, considering prenup—he has inherited assets, she has student debt.
• Discussion:
  • Dave’s stance: At this wealth level (~$1 million), not always worth the emotional cost of a prenup unless trust or external family dynamics demand it.
  • Rachel: Warns against starting marriage with “this is mine, this is yours”—must be all in.
  • “If you can't get $600,000 comfortable with someone, you don't need to marry them.” —Dave [34:05]

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6. Buying a Home in a Competitive Market

[44:25–52:18]

• Caller Brandon (Chicago): About to marry, wants to buy a house but worried about affordability on single income.
• Advice:
  • Be patient; location and property taxes may prevent buying now—may need to save longer or move further out.
  • “Personal finance is a film strip, not a snapshot. It’s a moving target.” —Dave [49:47]
  • Acknowledge that today’s market is tougher, but math still matters.

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7. Making a Big Career Move (Nursing School vs. High-Income Service Work)

[55:52–63:26]

• Caller Rachel (West Virginia): Makes $100k as a waitress, weighing $25k LPN program with lower starting salary.
• Advice:
  • Nursing offers greater long-term security, flexibility, and upside.
  • Research real local salaries before proceeding.
  • Never take student loans for this—save up first if possible.
  • “Best decision 10 years from today: nursing, not tables.” —Dave [61:03]

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8. Special Guest: Dr. Henry Cloud on Your Desired Future

[97:18–116:33]

• Dr. Henry Cloud: Shares insights from new book Your Desired Future.
• Core Framework—5 Steps to Achieving Vision:
  1. Vision/Clarity: Know exactly what you want.
  2. Engage Talent: Bring in the right people/resources.
  3. Strategy/Plan: Map out how to get there.
  4. Measurement & Accountability: Regularly track progress.
  5. Pattern Correction: Quickly fix what isn’t working.
• Behavioral Science: Brain hates ambiguity—clarity fuels progress.
• Changing Habits: Success often demands sacrificing comfort for long-term gain.
• “No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness.” —Dave quoting scripture [114:02]

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9. Inspirational Debt-Free Scream

[65:50–74:59]

• Aaron & Megan (Richmond, VA): Paid off $660,000 (house + med school loans) in 4 years, income grew from $240k–$300k.
• Strategies: Maniacal work hours, aligned vision, sold assets, lived frugally, emphasized teamwork.
• “It was temporary, just work your butt off—and it’s worth it.”—Aaron [71:43]
• “It’s the best thing we’ve ever done… for a marriage too.” —Megan [71:04]
• Now at/or near millionaire status, time-rich and debt-free at 35.

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10. Diversifying Income and Making Career Leaps

[118:53–127:20]

• Caller John (Boston): Considers quitting stable finance job for successful ($250k/y) YouTube channel, worries about volatility.
• Advice:
  • Don’t put all eggs in YouTube—diversify platforms (podcast, other video channels).
  • As long as content isn’t a fad and is “evergreen,” there’s real stability if you're skillful.
  • Use current high income to build margin; finance expertise gives you fallback options.
  • “You’re only as secure as your ability to leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home.” —Dave [124:45]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

Money and Relationships:

• “Number one cause of fights and divorce in marriage is money… It’s what money represents.” —Dave Ramsey [04:00]
• “If my decision patterns cause me to have a new car in the driveway… not great ones.” —Rachel Cruze [08:37]

Investing Wisely:

• “Don’t put money in something you don’t understand.” —Dave Ramsey [13:12]
• “The tortoise wins the race over the hare every time.” —Dave Ramsey [14:12]

On Hard Work:

• “It’s temporary, just work your butt off and it’s worth it.” —Aaron [71:43]
• “We called ourselves broke: ‘No we can’t have that, we’re broke.’” —Aaron [71:58]

On Setting and Achieving Goals:

• “What must be true that’s not true today to get to your desired future?” —Dave Ramsey [98:10]
• “Your brain hates ambiguity. It loves clarity.” —Dr. Henry Cloud [100:12]
• “Success is often about being willing to do what other people won’t.” —Henry Cloud [109:00]

Facing Financial & Marital Abuse:

• “Behavior is a language”—Dave on repeated financial infidelity [91:44]
• “If you expect him to change under any circumstances...this guy’s made a real clear statement. This is who I’m going to be.” —Dave [94:01]

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Episode Themes & Takeaways

• Steady, boring habits build real wealth—not shortcuts, fads, or flashiness.
• Value and vision alignment with your spouse is crucial for financial and relational stability.
• Sacrifice and discipline in the short term pave the way for long-term freedom and wealth.
• Don’t let comfort, fear, or immediate gratification derail your long-term goals.
• Every decision—be it about relationships, housing, investing, or career—should be made with clarity about your desired future and a willingness to do the hard work to get there.

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Listen For

• [04:00] Dave: On what money represents in relationships
• [13:12] Dave: On the first rule of investing
• [19:53] Rachel: On why the basic plan works
• [29:37] Dave: On knowing your numbers and being dialed in
• [37:57] Rachel: On prenup emotional risks
• [49:47] Dave: On personal finance as a moving film strip
• [61:03] Dave: On nursing being the better long-term choice
• [98:10] Dave and Henry Cloud: On turning vision into reality
• [109:00] Henry Cloud: On the pain and sacrifice behind real change
• [124:45] Dave: On the self-reliance required for financial security

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For more resources from Ramsey Solutions, visit www.ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[George Camel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broken cocktail. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality, co host of Smart Money Happy hour. My daughter is my co host. Today open phones here as we talk to you about your life and your money. The phone number is free at Triple 882-55-5225. And some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. John is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey John, how are you doing?

[Henry Cloud]

Good, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

[Caller Male 1]

I guess we'll get to a little backstory, I guess. First of, I'm 26 and my girl fiance, I should say is 31. We don't live together. I have a home in a right across the state line. She lives with her parents. I have no kids. She has three with three different fathers. And me and her are just trying to get on board with the Dave Ramsey plan. And I guess you could say struggling with that.

[Rachel Cruz]

In what way, John? What does that, what does that mean?

[Caller Male 1]

Well, just I presented to her I was following that route when I met her right at two years ago. And we we've tried to do on baby step two for the both of us. And I guess you could say just a few problems, you know, not living together, different households and overall just ain't on board with the plan completely. I guess you could say she's not. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what you're saying is, is that she's okay with her money problems and you're not, right?

[Caller Male 1]

Yeah, I ain't gonna say it's, you know, completely based on, you know, hot and cold I guess you could say. But yeah, that's pretty much overall that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because what are the things specific, John, that you're like, okay, I want to, I want to do this. I want to get out of debt and I want to live debt free. And she's what in debt, doesn't care to get out and is okay with it. Like is that one of the main rubs you mentioned? Baby step two, which Is part of the plan of getting out of debt, or is it saving? Is it investing? Is it giving? Is it all of it just a certain part of the plan that you guys are having some conflict with?

[Caller Male 1]

Well, to be honest with you, it's more so. Hey, you know, we talk. We want to go down this road. We want to. We want to be here and do this. And for, say, a good example, we. We talk about this. And then a couple months down the road, which was a few months back, she goes and purchases a new car. You know, that in. I would say we didn't need, you

[Dave Ramsey]

know,

[Caller Male 1]

just overall not following, I guess you could say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, here's the thing. If someone doesn't follow the Ramsey plan and you do, that's, you know, we're not. We're not the Bible. You know, we just teach biblical concepts. But, but, but, you know, you don't judge somebody based on that alone. But what. This does indicate something deeper that is disturbing. So here's the numbers. The number one cause of fights and divorce in marriage is money and money problems. And it's not really the money. It's what the money represents, because it represents your fears, your dreams, what you believe about life, who you believe is in charge, whether you're in charge or somebody else is in charge of your own life, do you control your own destiny? And the way you handle money indicates all of those things. And that spills over then into your. It is your value system, and it spills over into your relationship. And so if we say the number one cause of. If you said the number one cause of death in your neighborhood was snake bite and you saw snakes, well, you're worried if you're smart, you know. And so the number one cause of marriage issues is this. And you've got this issue on the number one thing. And she's tried this at some level three times at least before.

[Caller Male 1]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's worrisome. And so if I'm coaching the two of you and you're sitting in front of me, I'm going to say the way you can tell if your potential marriage is going to work is to the extent you guys can get on the same page and stick to the page, whatever page it is, whether it's got Ramsey written on it or whether it's got something else written.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. In the big subjects of life that we see eye to eye on in laws, faith, sex, money. I mean, it's the big stuff. And when we can see eye to eye on the value system, you're just Going to have a, I don't want to say easier marriage. It's just, it's going to probably cause less tension because you're walking the same direction together instead of fighting against each other.

[Dave Ramsey]

Always in laws is one of the four things that kills marriage. Yeah, is one of the top four. And so her mother won't shut up. That'll kill a marriage. Right. And she lives with them, by the way. So I'm not saying that's in the equation. I have no idea if it is here. And the same thing with religion. One of you says I hate God and the other one says I believe in God and I do everything he says. Well, that's going to be a problem. You know, you can argue about who's right or wrong but the fact that you're not on the same page is going to be a problem. So these are the types of things that the data tells us mess up marriages. And if I know that going in, I don't want to take all the data and remove all romance and love from the equation. But love's not going to overcome those things for 10 years.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, and there's also John, and this is not to be judgmental on her by any means. I don't know her story. You gave us no context except that she's had three kids with three different people. You're the fourth one that you're starting this life with. And so any level of pattern that you see in your life and hopefully for her to look back and just say, hey, what are patterns in my life that maybe are not the best things, not the best choices. And so, and what that can indicate, those character qualities in general feed into other areas of our lives. So the fact that she says one thing and then goes, and it's not like she ordered something on Amazon. She went, bought a new car. You know what I mean? Like it was a big purchase. It's very different than what was.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's rebellious and defiant.

[Rachel Cruz]

So there, well, there's just, well it's just a defiant, It's a lack of,

[Dave Ramsey]

it's a middle finger.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, that' wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a, we're all going to get out of debt. I'm going to go buy a new car.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, that's what that is. Yeah. And it's just like it's a lack of follow through of what you said.

[Caller Female 1]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I don't know why she got the new car. I don't know. There's probably more details than. But, but that's what I'm Saying, though, is the character quality. You have to be aware of things that have caused decisions in your life. And if those patterns can change, then the spouse you're going to marry is going to probably be a healthier person too. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do we tell John to do?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's an overall. It's an overall scope. I would continue to press and have the conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would get pre marriage counseling.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I would continue to push.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would sit down with a coach

[Rachel Cruz]

and to know the why behind a lot of these decisions for her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

What causes her to be okay, you know, with the subject. You could say debt as the subject. Like what. What is in that with her and actually get to the bottom of it. Because there could be a level of digging that you actually find and. And you know her more. That's the thing with money. You. You pull a string and it goes all the way down to people's heart and soul. And that's in there for her. So I would. If I loved her right as you do, John. Like you would want to know those things about her. And then you have to make a decision, though, for John and what's best. And when you look out 10, 15 years, does this look like a life that you want to sign up for? You know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But if my decision patterns cause me to have a new car in the driveway. I'm 31 and three kids and I live with my parents. I know these aren't patterns.

[Rachel Cruz]

Not great ones.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller Male 1]

Good.

[Caller Male 2]

How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller Male 2]

So I've changed positions in the company that I've been working for for the last couple of years, and I'm making a significant amount of money over what I was making initially. And it's kind of just piling up in the bank. I haven't invested any of it aside from just the company, 401k which comes out autom, and I'm pretty illiterate when it comes to these things. So I've been back and forth reading different things online about what I should be doing with my money. Never really done anything with it thus far because I haven't had any professional advice, just what I've read online. So I'm hoping that you can maybe guide me in a direction of where I should be putting my money to work for me, as opposed to earning less than 1% interest in a bank.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Good for you. Well, the good news is it's not rocket science. It's not that hard. This is not like learning a foreign language. It's much easier. Okay. And so it is a bit of a foreign language, but you just have to learn the vernacular and then you'll know what to do. What do you do for a living?

[Caller Male 2]

So I'm in sales.

[Henry Cloud]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make

[Caller Male 2]

by myself or my wife?

[Dave Ramsey]

Your household income. Why is this money piling up?

[Caller Male 2]

Probably just north of 200k gross between my wife and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Well done, sir.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much money do you have saved, Shane? You said it's just sitting in the bank and piling up.

[Caller Male 1]

Yeah.

[Caller Male 2]

So right now I have about 50,000 in the bank. I've only been in sales for the last 6 months and I probably had 10,000 when I started, so I probably have saved 40k in the last month.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Caller Male 2]

Well done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, as far as Investing goes. There's two principles that if you'll follow these two principles, you'll find your way through and do just fine. Okay, Actually there's three, but I'll give you two. I'll give you all three of them. Principle number one, don't ever put money in something you don't understand.

[Caller Male 2]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

You have not violated that. Congratulations, you've done very well. I met with an NFL player one time and I sat down with him and his wife and he said, dave, you're going to kill me. And I'm like, what'd you do? Did you blow all your money? And he said, no, I got $10 million. I'm like, what is it? Why am I going to kill you got $10 million? He said, it's all in CDs. It's horrible. And I went, that's not horrible. That's so much smarter than all the other people you play football with because they've all blown theirs or put it in their brother in law's pizza company that went broke, you know, so, you know, very smart. Don't put money and stuff until you understand it. So I don't care how flashy the TikTok thing is or what Dave Ramsey says or what Rachel Cruz says, you understand it before you put money in principle number one. Principle number two, plan to go slow. The fastest way to get rich quick is don't get rich quick. The tortoise wins the race over the hare every time. I read the book, okay? And I've read it a bunch over and over. He always wins. And investing you always win if you're slow and steady wins the race. That's the ESOP's fable, okay? And then the third thing is, don't get financial people in your life of any kind. Real estate, insurance, investing, tax, tax, whatever. That sound like Charlie Brown's teacher? Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. I have no idea what you're saying. You might as well speak in German to me, okay? And if they can't speak to you in such a way that they can teach you, they don't have the heart of a teacher, then they're just a salesman. They're not a financial person. And financial people are the world's worst. Because a lot of us are nerds and we like being impressive with our nerd knowledge more than we are concerned that you learn.

[Caller Male 2]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that goes back to the first one. Don't put money in stuff you don't understand. So if you sit down with a financial advisor and you and your Wife. And your wife says, I got a bad feeling about him or her. Don't go with him. Or if you sit down with them and you leave more confused than when you went in, don't go with them.

[Caller Male 1]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

They might be okay, but they're not okay for you. Now, now that we've established that, we can start talking about some of the cool stuff you could do for investing. Now we teach a process for building wealth that we've taught for 30 years plus called the baby steps. You probably heard of that, right?

[Caller Male 2]

I do. I have. I actually have your total money makeover book.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you know then that we're going to have you have an emergency fund and have all your debts paid off except your home before we start investing. Do you have any debt other than your home?

[Caller Male 2]

Yes, just my car or my truck and my wife's car.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much is all that

[Caller Male 1]

total?

[Caller Male 2]

Probably 70,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, we're gonna pay all that off before we do any investing then.

[Caller Male 2]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what we call baby step two, if you remember the book. And then once that's done, I want you to set aside three to six months of expenses in for an emergency fund being out of debt and having the rainy day fund is found to keep your investments safe. Your investments otherwise will turn. You'll pull money. I stop your 401k temporarily and knock those car debts out. Take all that 40k and throw it at the smallest car debt. Let's get it all cleaned up. So if you got no payments but a house payment and you got, I don't know, in your case, 30,000 bucks sitting there in a money market account only to be touched for emergencies. It's not a I want to go on a trip fund.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that was one change. I was going to say open up a high yield savings account. Fairwinds Credit Union's amazing, but they have a great smart bundle. So put it not in a traditional savings account, but in a high yield savings account. Because it goes from negative, I mean basically not even 1% to at least you're getting 3 to 4% sitting there for your emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

For your emergency fund. Right. And then with no payments now, you start really stacking money. You start putting 15% away in your 401k and Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks. And you can talk to one of the smartvestor [e-mail] and they can help you. They will have the heart of a teacher. They don't get the Ramsey name put on them on our Website. Unless they have the heart of a teacher, we won't put our name beside somebody. And if we find out someone is doing the Charlie Brown's teacher thing, we fire them and get them out of the system because we are hardcore about this. So if you do all of that, you're going to have so much stinking money. Because I got to tell you, one of the highest paid professions in the United States today is a good salesman.

[Caller Male 2]

Yeah, it's, it's, it was pretty night and day. It's about three times what I was making with this same current company prior to this position. And it's just had a lot of nights where I didn't really know what we were going to do for certain things. Read through your book. Paid off some debts, credit cards, medical bills.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're on the way now.

[Caller Male 2]

It's. And now we're just at a point where I have too much money. I don't know what to do with it. Based off of, you know, my own ignorance with finances, with investing.

[Dave Ramsey]

You start investing in good mutual funds and they're real easy to understand. It's 90 to 200 stocks. You look at the track record of the fund that was mutually funded by you, me and a bunch of other people together, and you go, okay, that group of, that pile of money has been growing at an average rate of 11% or 10% or 22% or whatever it is. And you look at, oh, it's done that for 32 years. Oh, okay. I feel pretty good about that. That's like buying a house in a good neighborhood.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And Shane, when you get to that, that 15%, honestly, the investment advice as you, if you dig into more of what we talk about, it's not going to be a lot of flashy stuff. I mean, honestly, the 15% into retirement, 401ks, Roth IRAs, you know, the standard. And then anything beyond that is just mutual funds. I mean, index funds, like, it's, it's nothing. There's no day trading, no crypto, like there's nothing big and flashy. Real estate, Airbnb, you know, Airbnb investing. Like, there's, you'll find none of that because again, it's, it's quote, unquote, not exciting investing advice. But the amount of baby steps, millionaires that are at it have, have done this and have built wealth slowly over time because it is the most stable way to build wealth versus all the flashiness. So again, it's not, it's not super exciting, but it is, it is consistent.

[Dave Ramsey]

The Difference is it actually works.

[Rachel Cruz]

It works. Y.

[Caller Male 1]

Sam.

[George Camel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

compared to 12 months on the Boost

[George Camel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

David is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi David, how are you?

[Caller Male 1]

Hi Dave and Rachel. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve, sir. What's up?

[Caller Male 1]

Up. Cool. Thank you for taking my call. My wife and I are, we've been working the baby steps for about the last eight months and we're on baby step six. We are at the point where we have to kind of navigate a bad decision we made when we bought our house two years ago. We bought a house and our mortgages 50% of our take home pay. And we're just trying to figure out if it's, if it's the right move to sell it or if we kind of stick it out and see if we can come up with a better solution.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you say take home pay, what do you mean coming out of your check?

[Caller Male 1]

So we bring home $12,000 a month after taxes and our mortgage is 6065.

[Dave Ramsey]

But after taxes, 401k health insurance, what else is coming? What's coming out of the CH than taxes?

[Caller Male 1]

Yeah, 401k health insurance and taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Taxes is all we're talking about when we say take home pay. So how much is going in your 401k a month?

[Caller Male 1]

We, I do 15% of 100,000. And then my wife's salary is 75,000. And we do 5% of her pay goes into her 401k.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's close to $2,000 a month. All right. And. And how much is the health insurance?

[Caller Male 1]

The health insurance is around $250 every two weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 500.

[Caller Male 1]

And then. Yeah, we have a. We're self employed, so our company pays 75 of the health insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. All right. Well, I mean, so when we mean take home Pay, we mean $2,500 more. So we mean 14,000 and some change. Okay.

[Caller Male 2]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Would be your take home pay. So that would put you at about 40%, not 50, but still, it's very tough. And so the principle is, when your house payment is too big a percentage of your take home pay, you become mathematically what we call house poor. You don't have any wiggle room to do anything else. How much debt have you paid off and how long did it take you and when this recent debt run? You did?

[Caller Male 1]

Yeah, we paid off around 120,000 in

[Dave Ramsey]

the last eight months while fighting this big mortgage?

[Caller Male 1]

Yes, sir.

[Rachel Cruz]

Dang. Did y' all sell anything?

[Caller Male 1]

Yeah, one of Dave probably. I had a Shelby GT500 that I had a loan on, but I did have a decent amount of equity in that car, so that helped pay off some other debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Yeah, it's just a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much of the 120 was that

[Caller Male 1]

we sold for? 94,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I was thinking.

[Caller Male 1]

But I did. Oh, 65,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 94. The 120 was one stroke. Okay.

[Caller Male 3]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you threw the rest of it at another debt. Yeah. So your equity.

[Caller Male 1]

Oh, well, 94. 94 is what I sold the car for. I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, I know. But you threw the other. You paid off the car and you took the other 34 and put it on debt, Right?

[Caller Male 1]

Yeah, Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So of the 2 of the 120, 94 was just simply moving the Mustang. Yeah. Wow, that. That made you cry A little. But it was also a brilliant move. Okay, other than that, then. So that leaves you with 30,000 reduced during that same eight months while having this big mortgage. What else did you sell?

[Caller Male 1]

That was the only thing we sold. We did have savings.

[Caller Male 2]

I.

[Caller Male 1]

Like I said, we were very new to this.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much was in savings?

[Caller Male 1]

We had 175,000 in savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you pulled that out and paid off the rest of this.

[Caller Male 1]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you did not cash flow any of this debt reduction then?

[Caller Male 1]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so we're back to the mortgage being a problem.

[Rachel Cruz]

So what's what's left in savings

[Caller Male 1]

between the emergency fund and just a high Yield Savings around 125,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your balance on your mortgage?

[Caller Male 1]

700,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your interest rate?

[Caller Male 1]

7%.

[Dave Ramsey]

You might consider dropping another hundred on that and refinancing it. You can get a lot. You probably get a five and a half this week on a 15 year old.

[Caller Male 1]

One of our thoughts, get a better

[Dave Ramsey]

interest rate and recast the mortgage because you're throwing 100 or 150 at the thing. Getting it down to 550. I think we got a workable deal. Do you like the house?

[Caller Male 1]

That's another part my wife and I were talking about. We were recently were both saved last year and it's a nice house but we really like to simplify our life and we want to be able to kind of give more right now. So we're kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean if you want to sell it anyway, that's okay. I was fighting to keep it for a minute thinking you wanted to keep it. But if you want to sell it anyway it makes the whole equation Right. But as far as do you have to sell it because of this percentage of your real take home pay, not counting 401k and health insurance, probably not. But if you want to sell it and downsize to get a simplified life, use the equity from the house, get a lower interest rate, use the 100%, 100 and some change, maybe 150 out of savings, dump it on there. I mean you're going to have a lot more wiggle room if you do that obviously.

[Caller Male 1]

Yeah. So we have had the house listed for the last month and we've had 10 or 10 or 12 showings and it's looking like after talking with our realtor we probably since the house is so new it hasn't quite built up equally. We before we bought this before we knew anything about you and didn't put any money down. We'll probably have to pay somewhere around 50,000 to get out of it. That's the part we're struggling with. Is that smart or do we stick it out and wait for equity to build or do we just pay the stupid tax?

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have to sell it to get ahead. You're going to prosper because you've been willing to make sacrificial moves. You're being very intentional about everything. You know your numbers. I think you're going to be okay. If you keep it. I would consider refinancing it and putting 100 or 150 down on the balance and putting it at a five and a half on a 15 year, I would consider doing that.

[Rachel Cruz]

How old are you really serious?

[Dave Ramsey]

Get in touch with Churchill Mortgage and see if they can help you with that.

[Rachel Cruz]

How old are you guys?

[Caller Male 1]

I am 30 and my wife is 28.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I probably would do that and then sit there for two years. And then if I'm still feeling a pinch and I want to still feel in this push to simplify, then sell it and you'll probably make some money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller Male 1]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And I was going to say, I mean, if you guys. Your voice is deep, David. I was like, I don't know. He could be 55. He could be 25. I don't know how old this guy is. Because if you were closer to even retirement age, right. And you didn't have a lot saved or something like that. Right. And there may be a big financial move you guys do to stockpile some money if you were close to that. But you're fine. You're 30. So, yeah, that would be another element of why I could see someone wanting to simplify, to get more cash flow, to start investing more. But you guys are great at 30,

[Dave Ramsey]

you're doing a good. The good news about every single thing we ask you, you knew the answer. You're on it. You're dialed in, and that's half the battle. Emily's in Montreal. Hi, Emily, how are you?

[Caller Female 1]

Hi, Dave. Good, thanks. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller Female 1]

So I just exited Baby Step two on Thursday of last week, and yesterday my car was stolen.

[Caller Female 2]

That was my only debt, and I'm

[Caller Female 1]

expecting about $45,000 to $50,000 payout from insurance because it was stolen. And I'm at a crossroads of what to do with that. Either do I get the exact same car that was stolen, which I love so much? Do I take this opportunity to maybe downsize my car and use the money for something else, starting a business or anything else? Or do I potentially just stay in my current job?

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your. What's your household income?

[Caller Female 1]

I make $60,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need a $45,000 car if you make 60,000, even if it's paid for.

[Caller Female 1]

I know, I know. I don't. I'm driving like a thousand kilometers a week to go to work.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't want to destroy $1,000 car. I mean, a $45,000 car driving that much, if you're that broke. No. So yes, I would move down in car. We don't tell people to buy more than half their annual income in cars. And so that means you take 30 of the 45 at a max and buy a 2 year old version of what you just had stolen. Wow, what a story. Just got out of debt and they stole my car.

[Rachel Cruz]

Stole my car. Yeah. Use the rest as an emergency fund, Emily. Then you're on the baby step four.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go.

[Rachel Cruz]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Michael is in Billings, Montana. Hey Michael, what's up?

[Caller Male 1]

Hey Dave.

[Caller Male 4]

How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller Male 2]

Hi. So I'm 26 and I'm looking to get engaged here soon. But my girlfriend and I, we have very different networks. And I was curious what or how you would look at setting up a prenup.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does very different net worth mean?

[Caller Male 2]

So I was very blessed. My grandparents did very well. I have about 5. I have a $550,000 paid for house, about 50,000 in a truck. I also have about 135 between my 401k and my various accounts. I also have 350k in leftover in a college fund. She is currently in PA school and she will be coming out of school with about 120 to 150,000 in debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you, what do you make?

[Caller Male 1]

I make about 100.

[Caller Male 2]

Well, I'm in sales, so 120 to 150 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If I were in your shoes, I would get so comfortable with this lady in order to marry her that I don't need a prenup. You don't have enough net worth to fool with it. Okay, if you can't get $600,000 worth of comfortable with somebody, you don't need to marry them. Okay, if you had 60 million from your grandparents, we'll talk about a pre mup 600k. No, I wouldn't. Would you, Rachel? No.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, the only thing I could think of, if I'm in her shoes and the script was flipped and I'm marrying a guy, he's coming out. And I had built a life for me and I had bought my own home and I had done some big things I could see. Like the home, for instance. Maybe if something were to ever happen. Yeah. Because the thing that's hard with prenups is like the laws in every state with divorce are different. Okay. And so there's going to be something that is going to happen if that happens. So are you proactive about that on the front end? Up to you. People nowadays are getting more and more comfortable with it because people are getting married later with some established financial life versus two 21 year olds who have nothing and they're, you know, getting married. So more and more we get this call and I think my, my. I had a pretty black and white take on it for years of like, nope, nope, nope, nope. And now there's just a part of me that I'm like, maybe one part of this that you're like, yeah, if something were to happen, I have built a life. Right. I mean, I know people that have their own businesses and that kind of thing. I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Again, if you've got a substantial net worth and I'm not, your grandparents blessed you. There's no question about that. But this is about 600 grand. And you know, it's okay if you

[Rachel Cruz]

get one for like a million. He has a $550,000 home. 135. 350 and everything together, it's probably more like a million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If you want to do it, it's okay. I just want you to be really, really sure that the problem is everybody throws this subject against the wall as if it solves something. And I don't want you to think it solves anything. All it solves for is if you divorce. It doesn't mean that you've actually sat down and got to know each other. It doesn't mean that you sat down and agreed. Okay, here's how we're gonna spend my grandparents. Money that they gave me is gonna pay off your student loans when we come home from the Honeymoon, you gotta solve for that emotionally.

[Rachel Cruz]

And that's a blessing, by the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would do that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got 350,000 in a college account. You can use it for your spouse. And I'd pay off that debt in about 20 seconds. And you know that kind of stuff. And you gotta. Emotionally is this relation. Cause the only chance you have in a culture that hates marriage for your marriage to last is you gotta be willing to die for them. You gotta be willing to take a bullet for them. You gotta be. It's all in. Ride or die, as Deloney says. This is. We're in. And so the problem with the prenup is it's kinda got one foot and a boat one on the dock, you know, and it's like, you know, and I want you to go all in. And then if you've emotionally, relationally, with some good marriage coaching, counseling, solve for all the. All in part and you're ready to write a check, pay off for student loans when you get back from the honeymoon. And then. And if on top of that, you want to do a prenup, okay, I'm not going to yell at you for that for a million dollars. But. But I really want you to think that through.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Because I think what. And I. And again, I'm like saying this out loud as I'm like processing it, because I think to the downside of people that do prenup. So that's probably a generalization, but is that you're starting out emotionally saying, financially, this is mine and this is you over here. And that can tend to then go into the marriage where that's financially where we say, no, you're all in. So if you had a. If you did do a prenup and you're like, if the worst of the worst of the worst happens and you know, we. We do the divorce, you know, court or whatever, and this is how assets are divided. But inside the marriage, from that point on, we are commingling finances. Mine is what's mine is yours. Yes. And net worth that everything then is together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I don't know how that plays.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know.

[Aaron]

But.

[Rachel Cruz]

So that's my caution with it too. I don't like that. I don't like that emotional hurdle. But yet again, I mean, I'm like, I can't help myself. But when we sit on this side of the desk, we have so many calls of, of people who have walked through divorce and all. You know what I mean? And someone that brings in something or Had a business. I mean, I've had people in my own life and that's happened to. And you're just like, man, what I

[Dave Ramsey]

always wanna do is force people to set that aside and act like it's not there and get okay with that and that level of commitment. And then if you wanna do it, fine. But what it does, it keeps people from going deep.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It keeps them from going in all the way to ground floor. And you gotta do that for your marriage to have a chance. In a culture where marriage is. We're at war against marriage. I mean, it's like crazy.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's just not a priority for some people. You know what I mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. The other one. That's interesting, Rachel, on that side of the thing, of course, when I started a long time ago, I just said never do a prenup on the basis of what we've just been saying. But then I ran into weirdness where somebody's got two or three million dollars and the other one's broke and it's not the person. Usually it's like I find out that there's a weird brother in law or cousin in the mix, you know, and it's like it just cleans up the external family.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because what the brother in law, the

[Dave Ramsey]

prenup, you're like, I can't touch it. It's not mine. You know. So her crazy brother starts coming at the new husband and is like, fund this.

[Rachel Cruz]

I want to do this.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's handled. It's already handled. You can't get to it. So you got cause there's crazy in every family. And if you think there's not, it's you, you know, and so that's what you're looking for. And then Deloney and I were having this discussion. He's doing all this marriage research right now, and he had a guy come at him. And we had this great discussion the other day when we were traveling together and that a guy made the point that a prenup is like a will. Because if you don't do a will, the state has a set of laws on how your assets will be divided.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you don't do a prenup, the state has a set of laws. They're going to, of course, how you're going to be divided. And they said, but we tell everybody to do a will to pre plan. So the state is not in charge,

[Rachel Cruz]

but you are 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you want to be anti government, Dave. Dave is about as anti government as anybody. You'll ever meet. Classic hillbilly, right? Like, you know, don't like them revenuers and so, you know, that kind of stuff. And so if you want to be real anti government, Dave, you would do everybody a prenup. So the government's not deciding.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, you're the one deciding.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's an interesting, interesting philosophical discussion. It didn't sway me, but it's worth talking about.

[Rachel Cruz]

But also, you're 100% going to die, so you're 100% going to use your will.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I'm saying.

[Rachel Cruz]

You may not.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was part of my answer too.

[Rachel Cruz]

You half may use the prenupathat's a good point, but that's my thing too. And again, and honestly, the reality we live in today, people are getting married later and they're coming in established with something.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that adds to the danger because you've got this independence. And in order to have a quality relationship that has to go away.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have to become interdependent to have a quality relationship. Submit yourselves one to another. Ephesians says, right, There's a submission to each other, not a I'm over here and I'm established, you know, and that's a spirit that's gotta be broken.

[Rachel Cruz]

And again, I don't know the laws of this.

[Caller Male 1]

This.

[Rachel Cruz]

We're going in circles here.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I like it.

[Rachel Cruz]

But, but I, but, like, could, could the prenup be right? If you started a, a business, right? And it. And it's killing it and you're the owner of it, but you get married, could the prenup, say, in the middle of divorce, you don't get to touch the business. It's mine. But in the marriage, we. What I bring home, it's everyone. So that makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, you could do that. You could do that.

[Rachel Cruz]

The dividing line, I don't know how to say unified in the marriage. But also, but I would also say

[Dave Ramsey]

that from today forward, the marriage grows partially because of the marriage.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, the value of the business.

[Dave Ramsey]

The business grows partially because of the value of marriage. Adding to the business.

[Rachel Cruz]

I think that's fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller Male 4]

Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up? Up?

[Caller Male 4]

I'm doing pretty good. My fiance and I are getting married in about four weeks time now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Congrats.

[Rachel Cruz]

Congratulations.

[Caller Male 4]

Thank you. We are looking to buy a house. We. I've done your financial piece twice. She's done it once. We've done all the baby steps. We're investing, got emergency funds, got a decent stack of cash packed, piled up and we just don't want to make the wrong decision on buying a house and everything seems out of reach.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your combined income is going to be?

[Caller Male 4]

We'll be about 120. I don't want to base it off that because we would like to start having children soon, sooner rather than later. So I'd like to base it off mine which is currently 70.

[Henry Cloud]

So.

[Caller Male 4]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much cash do you have saved?

[Caller Male 4]

About 70 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Good for you. Okay, my screen says you're in Chicago,

[Caller Male 4]

Chicago proper, northwest Indiana.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But the Chicago greater metro area.

[Caller Male 4]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Probably not going to buy a house on 70,000 in the Greater metro area of Chicago.

[Rachel Cruz]

And honestly not always because the house prices but the property tax people that I, we know move from Chicago, the, it's not even the price of the home, it's keeping the taxes, the taxes itself are what's impossible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now if you're in Indiana and you get across the line out of Illinois, is that where you are?

[Caller Male 4]

Yes, I'm, I'm in northwest Indiana.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that helped. That helps with the tax issue then. Yeah, but, yeah, but still you're, you know, you're in a major metro market that's a very expensive city. It's one of the largest cities in the world. And so that, that's expensive real estate. You're probably also not going to buy in San Francisco, San Die Go, or Manhattan on 70 grand a year, or Miami on 70 grand a year, or Nashville, Tennessee. Now, you can buy Nashville, Tennessee Outskirts. But I mean, the point is that, that, that's what you're facing. So what you're, what you want is some things that aren't compatible. You want her to be able to stay at home and live in an area that your income won't afford you to buy a home. And so you're going to make a choice here somewhere. And the, you know, if you want her to stay at home, you're going to move further out. You're gonna move out to the country

[Rachel Cruz]

or you guys, you know, save like crazy for two, three years. You know what I mean? Keep stacking cash and seeing what.

[Caller Male 4]

Yeah, I don't mind. I don't mind the country at all. We're, we're looking even further south and further east.

[Rachel Cruz]

What are the average prices of the homes you're looking at then?

[Caller Male 4]

I mean, for a basic fixer upper, you're at least 250.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, definitely. Yeah, yeah, you are. You're not in the Chicago land for that. Okay, all right, good. And you can do that. You could probably pull that off, but.

[Caller Male 4]

Well, even at, even at 250, I feel like that puts our mortgage above, you know, the recommended 25% of the income.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it will. It will. It won't for now, but it would when she quits.

[Caller Male 4]

And then that also the $250,000 house is going to require us to put money up front to fix and, you know, fix whatever's broken in the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, just be careful.

[Caller Male 4]

They're not nice houses.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, be careful. I mean, it can be done. But. And as you figured out the. And with the numbers you're giving me, you're being very wise. Okay, but I thought you were talking about I can't afford a 700, $800,000 house. And I was saying. Yeah, you can't.

[Caller Male 4]

No, no, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

But, you know, that's where I was. But in the real estate field, urban growth, there's a thing we call the ring theory. And with exceptions. But as a general rule, if you drop a pebble in the central business district, the main downtown area, every ring that pebble, the water goes out gets cheaper, with the exception of mountains for views and lakes and golf courses. But if you stay away from those three things, it gets cheaper as you go out until you touch another area that's another metro area. But to live in the close proximity to downtown Chicago is much more expensive than it is to live 50 miles outside over in Indiana, you know, as you have found, you already have realized that, whether you realized it or not.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that's what you're seeing. So just be careful and be thoughtful. And you already are doing that. I think you're going to be okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

And no Brandon, too, you know, your income will continue to go up, too, so that 25% doesn't stay stagnant at a house payment. Right. Because, I mean, if you guys bring home, you know, five grand a month, for instance, you know, off yours, you're looking at a 2000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

1250. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So. But think that you're 70, hopefully will be 75 soon, and then 8. You know what I mean? You will continue to go up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. It's not the thing you got to remember about personal finance. It's a film strip. It's not a snapshot. It's a moving target. Everything's moving over time. And you're not stuck there there. But just continue to be thoughtful about it and don't just throw up your hands. What we want to coach people about on this affordability in air quotes discussion is to say, well, you know, I don't have. Math doesn't count because I want a house. And that's what we want to stop you from doing and say, well, in my area. And math doesn't. He's not saying any of that. He's saying he's being very wise and thoughtful about how he's approaching it. But we run into these people that when I want something and I can't afford it. I don't know about you, but I kind of have this little drama queen fit, like a little child having a hissy fit down inside of me, you know, I want that. I want that. I want that and I can't afford it. I want that and I can't afford it. And I deserve it because I work so hard. Oh, brother.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, so what? So I just did quick math here. So if his payment was. Yeah. $2,000. Yeah. In today's, it would be a 275 to $340,000 home. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

But he's making. They're currently making 120,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not even married.

[Rachel Cruz]

So that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they're already having kids in their head.

[Henry Cloud]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're engaged. I mean.

[Aaron]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right. I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's. He's way projecting out into the future on this.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's the thing too, is like, if you guys waited two to three years to buy a home, you're okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or buy the house now on 120.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it. And two or three years before she comes home.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

By then you're making 80 and you've got everything stable. You're going to be okay. But don't. But just don't.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know, you hate the complaining. You do, Dave. I do, and I get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But also, I hate the drama queen because it's inside of me, too.

[Rachel Cruz]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know it's inside of me. All of us have to. It's called growing up.

[Rachel Cruz]

It is. But also, I think we can all say out loud. It is.

[Henry Cloud]

It is.

[Rachel Cruz]

You hate when I say this, but it is true. It is harder today.

[Caller Male 3]

I know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because of the income and the like.

[Megan]

I know.

[Rachel Cruz]

So we acknowledge it. It is hard and it sucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it is a general rule. But that's not. That doesn't mean you get a pass on math.

[Rachel Cruz]

You don't get a pass and you

[Dave Ramsey]

get to go destroy your life because I went something.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, you don't. I know, I know. But it just. It's like a. It's like a man. This is not what it was. And now we have to move forward. That is why I hate when people just complain on Instagram or TikTok about it and there's no solution. And we try to give solutions to say, hey, you are. You're gonna have to move out further.

[Dave Ramsey]

The solution is exactly the same one in college where you buy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Changes everything.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't. You can't call me up and say, I want to live in Silicon Valley, James.

[Rachel Cruz]

And just live in a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where's James? It's not a tiny home, it's a log cabin.

[Rachel Cruz]

Log cabin.

[Dave Ramsey]

James has a log cabin. So there you go.

[Rachel Cruz]

We love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's a homesteader.

[Rachel Cruz]

I didn't know James.

[George Camel]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance.

[George Camel]

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

[George Camel]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family.

[George Camel]

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. Sorry, a little backed up. A little hard to get in here. But if you got a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head on over to the website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained only on proven Ramsey principles. So like we loaded three years or four years worth of this show in there as the data set and we loaded all the books we've written and the articles we've written and all that stuff as the data set. So there's no garbage in there from TikTok or from trash from some get rich quick thing built into it. So the data set is all stuff we have said and that's all AI is. It just regurgitates what the data set is. So it's going to answer the question exactly like one of us would. Hello? That's exactly how it works. You get an answer the same way we'd answer it right there on the show. And it's completely free. Ask Ramsey ramseysolutions.com Go check it out. It's pretty cool. Thousands of people are using it every day. It's crazy, y'.

[Caller Male 1]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, they're blowing up. All right. Rachel is in West Virginia. Hi, Rachel. How are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

You?

[Caller Female 2]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help okay.

[Caller Female 2]

So I'm having a hard time making the best financial decision for my future. So right now I'm currently a waitress making around 100k a year. I've probably made a little over 40 some this year so far.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're working hard.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good for you.

[Caller Female 2]

But I've been considering going to nursing school. And that would be $25,000 for just the LPN program. But it would also be making less money than I make now.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, not much. You're working a lot of hours. Make 100k on tables. How many hours you working a week?

[Caller Female 2]

So I'm only working like 38 to 40 hours.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got a good restaurant. Okay, that's a high ticket item. All right. Nice place.

[Rachel Cruz]

What's the, what's the nursing position you're looking at? What is, what's market value for that job per year?

[Dave Ramsey]

80 to 100,

[Rachel Cruz]

Rachel.

[Caller Female 2]

So the LPN program is 25,000 and it says the average salary for that is 50. But then if you would go back and get your rn, which sometimes you can get a job that would pay for that part of the schooling, then it's usually around 100k.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Have you called around different places of employment that you would probably be interested in and talk to anyone about what they're. Are you just finding these stats online?

[Caller Female 2]

So I was already accepted into the LPN program and that is the one that is 25,000. And then they told me after I would graduate the LPN program if I would accept a job. Most jobs would pay to go back to get your RN.

[Dave Ramsey]

Agreed. But most jobs pay more than 50 on LPN too.

[Caller Female 2]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the other thing is you can get all the work you want. Nursing is possibly one of the most stable. I mean, I've been doing this 30 years and I've never heard of a single year when there was an overage of nurses. There's always a shortage, so you can always land a job. There's a lot of different kinds of jobs you can do as a nurse. And you can work at a doctor's office Monday through Friday and work ER and clean up on the weekends if you want to stack some cash for a short time as a part time gig once you've got your degree. So I love nursing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And the 50 a year, Rachel, is only. That's not right. Well, let's say it is for. It's only for for a second because you're going to be there, they're gonna pay for you to go to school and then you'll Jump in salary, you know what I mean? Like it's a stepping stone. If it is, it's not gonna be your forever salary.

[Caller Female 2]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So that's how I would look at it. If that is the case in West Virginia where you are versus waitressing. I mean the fact you made 100 grand is amazing. But that's probably capped, right? Like that's probably. You can only work, you know, so much doing that. And so I do wonder.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I don't think you got a chance to go to 150 there. D you.

[Caller Female 2]

Yeah, no. And it really could end anytime. That's just that restaurant. If that would close, then I'd be.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that's right.

[Henry Cloud]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller Male 1]

So.

[Rachel Cruz]

But I would call around too, Rachel, because them just throwing numbers out at the school. I probably would do my own research too, just to be curious about what people are paying.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it also depends on whether you're, you know, how rule an area of West Virginia you're in. Okay. If you're in small town West Virginia in the mountains, yeah, 50 might be right. But if you're in a metro area, it's more like 60 or 80. Okay. All right. And because we work with nurses all the time, I mean it's, it's. And I'm just a. From a wealth building perspective, a stable perspective. You always have work perspective. You can choose the environment you want to be in. Perspective. It's a great career.

[Caller Female 2]

Okay. And then my other question is, would you get. So with it being $25,000, would you get a loan?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller Female 2]

You had money during.

[Dave Ramsey]

Never going to tell you get a loan. We never tell anybody get a loan. Okay. Now we always want you to be debt free. You got some money stacked, don't you?

[Caller Female 2]

Yeah, I mean I paid off my, all of my credit cards and my car and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good.

[Caller Female 2]

Yeah, just.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you're making 100. You can stack up 25 by the time you need it. Yeah, yeah. If you just, if you just, you're real careful. I'm so proud of you. Way to go. I mean, but the difference is not the snapshot of today. The difference is what's the best decision 10 years from today. Nursing our tables. Nursing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Slam dunk.

[Rachel Cruz]

How old are you, Rachel?

[Caller Female 2]

I'm 26.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, perfect. Good for you. I think that's great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I just, I see you being a very successful, wealthy 55 year old nurse. I don't see you being a successful, wealthy 55 year old waitress.

[Caller Female 2]

Yeah, that's kind of how I see it too.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I think it's a great step, girl. Do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have at it, kiddo. Be careful and be thoughtful and milk it for everything it's worth. Meaning get the best, highest paid paying job possible that pays you all.

[Rachel Cruz]

They will pay you and get some knowledge again. I would call around to hospitals and clinics and stuff and just say, hey, starting out, I'm just curious, what average salary are you paying for this? And just collect some data too, because I think that's gonna maybe. I think it's gonna be more. You're gonna see a better picture. Not a worse picture than that. 50 more.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I would frame this differently in my head, okay? Like, I want to go back to school and pay 25,000 to make half of what I used to make.

[Caller Female 2]

Make.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not the story here. We would not tell you to do that. But I want to go back to. I want to pay 25,000 and go to school for a career that has a much better future and a higher upside financial. And I might have to take a little bit of a step back temporarily. That's a different story. And you need to frame the decision making on that story. Not on a. I just want to do what I love and I'm going to make half. That's not your story. Story. You're not one of those. That's a fruit loop. You don't want to do that. Okay. I just want to follow my passion and be broke.

[Henry Cloud]

No.

[Rachel Cruz]

You get so annoyed with those people too.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. That's just, it's, that's just dumb.

[Rachel Cruz]

Dave has not been in the studio for a while. All of his grievances are coming out on this show. Whenever he comes back, he's always like, oh, those people annoyed me. I'm gonna talk about those people.

[Dave Ramsey]

I have not had a single person annoy me. No one has annoyed me.

[Rachel Cruz]

People that complain about houses being high, you don't like them. You don't like, you don't like the people. Like, I'm gonna follow my passion.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was that way when I left and it was that way when I, I came back. I had nothing to do with, while I was gone. But anyway, the people I've been with were very sweet. Thank you very much.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, no, they weren't annoying. I'm saying people in America that annoy you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. I, I have not had any interaction with those people. At least he's not spreading liable about my housing situation. Yeah, Rachel, I, I didn't, I didn't throw James's house under the bus. You, you took his log Cabin and turned it into a tiny house.

[Rachel Cruz]

James, I'm sorry, that's a wrong set of information.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think. James, he lives in a log cabin palace as far as I'm concerned.

[Rachel Cruz]

I think he does. On acreage.

[Dave Ramsey]

On acreage. Thank you very much.

[Rachel Cruz]

Very nice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, you gotta love it,

[Caller Male 1]

Sam.

[Rachel Cruz]

Buying a home is one of the biggest financial decisions you'll ever make. But too many people base the decision on opinions or what the market is doing that week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Churchill Mortgage has been our trusted partner for over 30 years because they do things the Ramsey way. A lot of people think buying a home starts with going to a bunch of open houses. But if you're buying a home the right way, you start with a budget and a trusted guy like Churchill. Before you even think about house shopping, Churchill will show you the real numbers, not what a bank will approve. Buying before being ready is how people end up house poor and stressed out.

[Rachel Cruz]

Churchill will tell you the truth, and they won't push you into more house than you need. And once you understand what you can actually afford, you can move forward with clarity and confidence.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you're ready to buy a home, choose the right guide and stick to a plan. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com and get started. ChurchillMortgage.com this is a paid advertisement in MLS.

[George Camel]

Id 1591nmlsconsumeraccess.org equal housing lender.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Aaron and Megan are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

[Aaron]

Good.

[Caller Female 1]

How are you?

[Megan]

Great. I. I am so pumped to be here. I don't know if you can tell,

[Dave Ramsey]

but, man, hey, we're honored to have you. Where do you guys live?

[Megan]

Richmond, Virginia.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

[Henry Cloud]

Fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And how much debt have you Two paid off?

[Aaron]

$660,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Goodness gracious. How long did this take?

[Aaron]

Four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa. All right, there's a story here. And your range of income during this 48 months.

[Aaron]

Started around 240, ended up around 300.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. What do y' all do for a living?

[Aaron]

I'm a physician and I have a small business.

[Megan]

We do screen print, embroidery, contract stuff,

[Dave Ramsey]

Pallets and pallets of T shirts and 660,000. I was gonna guess mortgage, but then you said MD. So student loans or mortgage or both?

[Aaron]

Both.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, God, that free house and everything.

[Aaron]

Oh, yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Amazing weirdos.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, look. Oh, there's the doctor's house. Okay, I see it now.

[Aaron]

All right, we repaint.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it. I like it.

[Rachel Cruz]

I like the blue shutters. I liked it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fun. Oh, y', all, that's great. So congratulations. How old are you two?

[Aaron]

I'm almost 35.

[Megan]

38.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have a paid for house and a paid for MD degree.

[Caller Male 1]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much of this was student loans? How much was the house?

[Aaron]

The house was 317. The rest were student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa.

[Aaron]

Dang it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Half and half. Basically about half.

[Henry Cloud]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you come out of med school and he's printing T shirts like a crazy man, like, hand over fist. And you're going to work, like all the time and you're going to clean this mess up. And you went on. Just plowed right on through the house and everything.

[Aaron]

Yeah, well, we only met like five years ago, so he kind of buried into the debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

He says, yeah, it was scary. What caused you. Yeah. What happened? Okay, so all that happens four years ago. So what happened four years ago?

[Megan]

Well, we got. We got married and we start looking at this and it's like, babe, you can reform. You know, you can reform. We've got all this stuff. We've got to get rid of it. Yeah, it was real scary. Just the daily compounding. I looked at those interest payments and I was like, we got to get rid of this.

[Aaron]

I still had credit cards.

[Caller Male 1]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

No debt, but credit cards. And so. And I had some savings, but I wasn't making any loan payments because they were in deferment. And so we just got every dollar we started. And it just.

[Dave Ramsey]

How did you find us?

[Megan]

So I have been listening to you guys probably since 2012. Yeah.

[Aaron]

So he's a disciple.

[Megan]

Yeah, I'm a little bit of a disciple. I've always run my business that way, you know, debt free and always tried to keep my expenses low and, you

[Dave Ramsey]

know, so you knew the antidote and you were a wee bit excited.

[Megan]

I was so ready.

[Dave Ramsey]

I bet you were over the top, though.

[Henry Cloud]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was he over the top?

[Aaron]

He was him.

[Dave Ramsey]

He was him.

[Rachel Cruz]

We're Gonna just say 10% over the top. Not crazy. Not over crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a good over the top.

[Aaron]

That's why I like him.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a good over the top. I mean, you came at her with like, a fire hose, though, right? I mean, like.

[Megan]

Yeah, she was. She was drinking from it, though.

[Dave Ramsey]

I had her drinking from it.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you'd had enough too? You wanted out?

[Caller Female 2]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So it wasn't a big argument or anything. It's just a. It was just a big mountain.

[Megan]

No, that's one of our big strengths, I think, is, you know, we've always kind of been on the same page on money and we, you know, it's awesome.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so did you guys work extra? What. What was the. What was one of the big things you did that you were like. This helped so much was the income. I mean, you guys, you did great on the income side.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, drove. Drove that income.

[Aaron]

He was a maniac. I mean, the first, you know, couple years we were together 100 hours a week. I mean, always at the shop. Leaving the house at 3am, getting home at 9pm Sunday to Saturday. I was doing telehealth. I was taking like 25 nights a month of hospice call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa.

[Aaron]

I'm also in the reserve, so I drill one weekend a month. So we just were working non stop.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh.

[Caller Male 1]

Jobs.

[Rachel Cruz]

Y. Oh my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did the reserves pick up any of this?

[Aaron]

A little bit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

They like a 10 grand hit or something?

[Aaron]

Yeah, a couple loan repayments.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I thought they had a hit on that. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's. So what happens now? Now that everything you. You've paid everything off, what does life look like? Cuz, I mean, that's intense. Which you guys just explained.

[Megan]

I know. Buy furniture.

[Aaron]

We still have one unfurnished room in our house. We took us two years to buy furniture after we bought it. But I mean, we have two boys who we absolutely love. Maybe one, a third.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Aaron]

And just get them set up for success.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's amazing. And not working 90 hours, 100 hours a week.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah. We want our time back.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get your life back. But now you earned it back and you're done. I mean, four years of hell and you're 100% free for the rest of your life. So what's this? What's the home worth?

[Aaron]

Probably it's in the fives.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much you got built up in the nest eggs?

[Megan]

One fifth. What's in your.

[Caller Female 1]

401.

[Aaron]

Oh, yeah, like 180.

[Megan]

180 plus.

[Aaron]

Yeah. That's all through work.

[Megan]

A little over two.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So you're right at millionaire status then.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Henry Cloud]

Close.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Baby steps. Millionaires making a couple of hundred. You can do whatever you want to do the rest of your life, but you roll, you hit it hard there for a period of time.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

A lot of Mac and cheese.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was it worth it?

[Megan]

I'm not eating any more Mac and cheese.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was it worth it? Absolutely.

[Megan]

Absolutely. It's the best thing we've ever done, you know, financially, but also for a marriage.

[Aaron]

It helped us a lot Closer together,

[Megan]

communication and just sticking to a plan and doing something together. Every month, you know, we're doing the budget, we're reconciling, you know, going through

[Rachel Cruz]

all the steps, walking through it all together. How old are the boys?

[Aaron]

They're both under two, so 22 months and eight months.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so they were all through this whole process. Toward the end of the journey, you were having babies too, which is a whole other feat. Right. Of doing all of that. So, gosh, you guys, you lived a lot of life in four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Congratulations, babies.

[Rachel Cruz]

And debt free.

[Aaron]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you tell people if they say, can you do this? You tell them they can do it.

[Aaron]

Yeah, absolutely. It's temporary, you know, just work your butt off and it's worth it.

[Megan]

Yeah, absolutely. You can do it. Dedication. You have to believe in yourself and go for it and don't stop and keep working through the baby steps.

[Aaron]

And it's all about messaging. So we just called ourselves broke. Like, no, we can't have that. We're broke.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, I've told MDs that before when they call in. It's good for them to hear that sometimes you are a broke doctor. Yeah. Yeah. But you're not. And here's what's interesting, too. We were talking about this affordability thing a while ago. Their home was. You know, when they bought, it wasn't a half million. It's probably 300. And it's a half million dollar house today. And she's a doctor. Hello. Okay. I mean, this is not.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You chose where you were living and what neighborhood you bought in wisdom.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You didn't go buy a house five times that size, which your contemporaries probably did. People came out of med school with you. They're still sitting with 300. And then they put a million dollar mortgage to go with it to prove I'm a stupid doctor. And. And that's because doctors are notoriously bad with money. And so the people that graduate with you, instead, you went the other way. And they're acting like somehow you're, you know, like. But now you're free.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And worth a million dollars. And gonna be worth 2 million in a heartbeat, the way you're going. So congratulations. I'm very proud of y'.

[Henry Cloud]

All.

[Aaron]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's worth pointing out that y' all make great choices.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Along the way here. And that's also what got you there.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. You could make this. We have people calling and make 350. They have nothing. You know what I mean? They're stressed out and they're living paycheck to paycheck. So you guys, you killed it. Absolutely. Did y' all have people cheering you on during this?

[Aaron]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Family.

[Megan]

Yeah, we have a lot of people in our corner.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. That's great.

[Dave Ramsey]

A few people rolling their eyes.

[Megan]

Yeah, there's those.

[Aaron]

And a few people who have followed by example just hearing our story. And now they're paying off their debt.

[George Camel]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, I like it. That's good. That's good. Well, if we can infect the medical community with this, it would be awesome.

[Rachel Cruz]

What a weird word to say about the medical community.

[Dave Ramsey]

I chose it carefully. Want it to be contagious.

[Rachel Cruz]

No pun intended.

[Dave Ramsey]

We want this to be contagious in the medical community. Well, way to go, you guys. Very, very proud of me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Thanks for coming on and sharing your story.

[Dave Ramsey]

How does it feel right now, standing here?

[Aaron]

Surreal.

[Megan]

Absolutely surreal. What you say. Yeah, it's wild. I never thought that I would. Yeah. Be up here.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's cool. It's kind of like you were driving 160 miles an hour and then you stopped.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you went, whoa. Those white lines aren't a solid line. Who knew? Yeah, that's. That's amazing. Well, way to go, you guys. Congratulations. Very proud of you. Aaron and Megan. Richmond, Virginia 660,000 paid off, house and everything, including medical school debt. All done in 48 months, making 240 to 300. The secret sauce is working together. And all they did was work all the time until they cleaned it up. But they're 35 years old and they're free. And they're baby steps, millionaires. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Megan]

Three, two, one.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're debt free.

[Caller Female 1]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. Way to go,

[Caller Male 1]

it.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And right now, AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind it. The best AI is built on the best data. That's why I Recommend Nets. For NetSuite is the number one AI Cloud ERP, and more than 43,000 businesses run on it, including us here at Ramsey Solutions. Their AI isn't bolted on, it's built in. And it connects everything that runs your business. Accounting, inventory, customer data, all in one place. Because when your numbers are connected, AI actually works. Works like it's supposed to. NetSuite's AI helps flag cash flow problems, spot inventory issues, close your books faster, and cut down on manual reporting. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netsuite.com Ramsey for a free product tour. That's netsuite.com Ramsey. Our Question of the Day is sponsored by why Refi? When you fall behind on paying back your private student loans, it can feel like your life is being held hostage. But why Refi helps borrowers explore a fresh start with low fixed rate refinancing and a payment plan designed around their ability to pay. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Rachel Cruz]

Today's question is from Shauna in Arizona. My husband and I are in the process of selling a home that we purchased 10 years years ago. We'll be moving to another state in a few years and we'll rent until we're ready to make the move. As we consider setting aside a proceeds from this sale for a few years, what is the best type of account to park it in? Should we put it in high yield savings, CDs, individual stocks? Or is there some other option that we should consider? So the honestly the two places when you think about putting money aside is either saving savings is one category and then investment is another category. So anytime you put money into the market would be considered an investment. So whether we never would recommend individual stocks but anything whether it's mutual funds, index funds and kind of our rule of thumb is if you're not going to use the money for four to five years then then yeah, you could probably invest it and ride the market out because there'll be lows and highs and so you want to make sure that just like a home, right, you wouldn't buy a home and when there's no equity, turn around and sell it. So if you're going to, if you are going to use the money, money in around four years or less than a High Yield Savings account is where I would park it. And our friends at Fairwinds have a great smart bundle where you can get a no fee checking account. I think it's up to 10 high yield savings accounts you can have within your name and then the Ramsey Bieber debit card with that too. But a High Yield Savings is where I would park it. If you're going to use that money. You said a few years so I'm assuming that's two to three. So I would just throw in a High Yield Savings account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's the safe thing if you're willing to take the risk. The longer you leave it alone, the more I would lean towards something like just an S&P 597% of the five year periods in the stock market's history have made money. So you wouldn't lose money 97 times out of 100 if you left it alone five years or more. That's why Rachel said that's invested. Now if you do it four years, what's the number? I don't remember the probability on that. One or three years. What's the number? I don't know. But I mean, the last three years have been, you know, 25, 24 and 18.

[Rachel Cruz]

Crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that's not normal. But if you'd left the loan for three years and you'd been in the market, you'd have had that versus high yield savings. Obviously looking back would have been smart, but you don't know that it could be down for three years too. So. But the number of down periods in a long period of time is very, very low. So to the extent you can afford to lose a little bit of it and be comfortable, then you can go with the, you know, you can go with an s and P500 index fund. So you just kind of got to work that through and figure it out. But if you're just even the tiny little bit scared. High yield.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, you're not with that kind of stuff. If you had three years, would you throw it in a S and P?

[Dave Ramsey]

I might go 50. 50.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, if you got, let's say they got 500,000 out of this house or something like that. Yeah, I might put 250 in the S&P and 250 in the high yield. Kind of hedge my bets a little bit.

[Rachel Cruz]

But if you're going to be turning around and buying a house in the next couple of months, obviously it would just be high yield but over a little bit more, period. So. Yeah, I think you're. That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

What you're willing to spend three years or more. I start to think about some portion of it being in there. Five years or more. I'm putting all of it in there.

[Rachel Cruz]

What is. Do you have the stats off the top of your head on election. Election years, Is it usually down? Election years?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm just usually up.

[Rachel Cruz]

It is up. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

I was just wondering, not that you can time the market, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't, I wouldn't. And now midterms. I don't know, I haven't looked at that.

[Rachel Cruz]

I just wonder if midterms.

[Dave Ramsey]

We got midterms in the fall, in the political cycle. You know, I don't usually use that as a Measure anyway.

[Rachel Cruz]

But I should know if you were like heading into a year, if you're like, eh, let me hold off for a few months and see the landscape of the world. If it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know. Every time I try to do that, Every time I try to do that, I lose money. So I guess wrong, you know, whichever way it is. So I just quit doing that. I just quit saying. Started saying, okay, if I put 250,000 in and it goes down 10%, I lost 25 grand out of my 500y. I'm okay. Didn't kill me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hurts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hurts. But that. And that would be highly unusual.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Very unusual. Three year period of time.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, almost never happens.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's funny.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. But if you thought about it that way.

[Caller Male 1]

But.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's kind of how I gauge it is if I lost something that was an unusually bad loss.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's still not that much.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right. You know what? That's. That literally just happened to be in Winston. We opened up a, like an S&P 500 thing to throw some money in because we were looking at diversification, a couple of things, and we usually. We had never really done that. We had had other investments, like 401ks Ross. And then another account that we just would put. So we're like, well, let's. Maybe we'll have another one brokerage account. Because Winston may buy, you know, something out of it with his real estate stuff. And I'm not lying, you guys. We win some money and we moved it from a high yield savings into this.

[Dave Ramsey]

It went down Iran.

[Rachel Cruz]

Iran happened like five days later. And Winston was like, oh, just don't. Just don't look at anything right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it didn't. It didn't drop that much.

[Rachel Cruz]

No. And then it came back and it's fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it dropped like 3%.

[Rachel Cruz]

But I literally had to tell myself, rachel, you do this for a living. It's okay. You just. You just don't look. You ride the market. Don't jump off the roller coaster. But I thought out of all times in the last three years, you picked the worst one. I picked the, like four days before. Who knew? And I just thought, dadgum it, Trump

[Dave Ramsey]

bombs Iran just as you decide to be an investor. But again, you can go back and look at those charts. That's an interesting thing to do since the first of the year.

[Rachel Cruz]

But it hurts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go back and look. And you go, okay, we put 100,000 bucks in and I lost $6,000. You're okay?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And now it's back up.

[Dave Ramsey]

It just pisses you off.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, and it hurts your feeling, but it's not, the actual math is not devastating.

[Rachel Cruz]

No. It's just, it's your hard earned money. And when you're like seeing it should

[Dave Ramsey]

be going the other way and I don't want it to go that way. And it hasn't. Now it's back up.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right. That's right. No, everything's fine. But I had that about a few days of thinking. Dad, come in.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, I did that. Come to think of it, I dropped a chunk in about the time Trump decided to do tariffs.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And there was about a month period where it like choked, you know, and then it came right back up and through the rain roof. But it like, for, for just a moment there, the market just decided to go.

[Rachel Cruz]

And that, and that's really why I'm like, I don't. People ask, do you check? Do you check the market? Do you look? And I'm like, I really don't. I look at our accounts once a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Rachel Cruz]

And this was like literally the only time in our 16 years of marriage of doing this.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you check in the account every day, you're a day trader.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they all lose money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, yes. And you can't do that. So you park it for long, long term. Long term. It's going to go up and down.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the plan. Charles is in Boston. Hey Charles, what's up?

[Caller Male 2]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller Male 2]

So I guess essentially my question is I grew up very privileged. I have about $9 million in investments all through trust from my parents, my grandparents, a few years out of college.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how old are you?

[Caller Male 2]

I do well, I make, I'm 28.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Good for you.

[Caller Male 1]

Yeah.

[Caller Male 2]

And I make around 80 to 90k a year. But I'm at this stock roads where I'm studying for my GMAT and I'm hearing people talk less and less about the effectiveness of going to graduate school, at least for business and whether or not I should just start my own company, start a business. Where do your thoughts lie? Given I have such ample resources at my disposal and a safety net that can cushion any fall, I wouldn't use

[Dave Ramsey]

that to make my decision. I would pretend like that money's not there and then go be a wise, heart filled 28 year old that kicks butt and takes names and let your life be, let that money be gravy that's in the background. You know, if you Stumble and fall. You're going to be. You have a huge safety net. But that doesn't make you. That doesn't say, oh, you need to go in business. And people who don't have $9 million don't need to go in business. No, you need to go in business. If you're supposed to go into business. Business is hard. Business is thrilling. Business is fun. I've been an entrepreneur my whole life.

[Rachel Cruz]

Life.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thoroughly encourage you to do it. It's tiring, but you're going to have. Your boss is a but. He'll drive you crazy. When you own your own business, he'll work you to do it.

[Rachel Cruz]

What kind of business do you want to as well, what kind of business you want to open?

[Caller Male 2]

Unsure about that at the moment, but I know my knowledge and passion lies within the automotive industry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller Male 2]

Whether it's maybe selling classic cars like my brother starting a boutique, that'd be fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go. You know you can do that. You can do that easy. And that's something you can test and get back out of. You don't have to say, I'll never go to graduate school. Instead, I'm gonna sell classic cars. You can say, I'm gonna try this. I'm gonna experiment. If I don't like it, I can't make money at it. I'm not good at it. I'll try something else and I'll experiment. That's what entrepreneurs do. Very seldom does what you set out to do end up being the thing you're doing 20 years later because business and the environment changes too much. I think you ought to try it, but not based on the fact you got 9 million. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz is my co host. Today Samantha is in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Samantha. How you are? Are you.

[Caller Female 1]

Better than I deserve, but beautifully broken as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

I understand. How can we help today?

[Caller Female 1]

So my husband. So I've been a stay at home mom for 27 years. The last 20 I've been raising our disabled daughter who passed away in September. I'm sorry. Okay, Dan, she passed away in September. My husband has a really long history of financial infidelity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stop just a second. Stop. Just second. Bruce, breathe.

[Caller Female 1]

Okay. I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's okay. Get your breath back so we can hear you. So your daughter passed in September?

[Caller Female 1]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was her name?

[Caller Female 1]

Her name was Abby.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what was her disability, honey?

[Caller Female 1]

She was a spastic quadriplegic with cerebral palsy.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she lived 20 years.

[Caller Female 1]

She did. She did. Mentally, she was fine, but she couldn't walk. She was in a wheelchair her whole life. She couldn't even turn over in bed. I did everything for her. So not only did I lose her, I lost my identity because I just don't know how to be normal anymore. Like that's all I did was take care for her and fight for her and do for her.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she's. And she's been gone for seven, eight months now. Right.

[Caller Female 1]

But it feels like yesterday. It's just horrible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Anyway, and so your husband, you said your husband was financial infidelity. You mean he's been doing all kinds of stuff financially that you didn't know about?

[Caller Female 1]

Yes, but he's done it our entire marriage. Like our entire marriage. He's always, he'll get on ebay and he'll like hundreds of like lots of money, like thousands of dollars. Currently right now he has one book in his shopping cart with $6,000. In December of 24, he had $30,000 in all these loan places, like OP Loans and Finance places. And so we sold our oil leases so that we could get out of that debt. We sold our kids future to clean up his mess. And I told him, if you ever do this again, I'm going to divorce you. Well, of course, he did it again in my March and, and right after our daughter died, he did it again in March. And I just happened to catch it because it was, it went into his per diem account. He works out of town and we have two separate accounts. His check has always gone into our joint account. I immediately transfer it to my account which I pay the bills with. And I've done that after about the 10th time of all of this stuff he does. That's just how we did it. I didn't care. That's how it's going to be. You're not going to have access to our bills and money. But so anyway, this last loan in March, I got online to check his per diem account to make sure that his per diem had went in and there was $12,000 in there. And so I called him and I said, what is going on? Oh, I got a loan, I need to buy some books and yada yada, yada. So I went straight to the bank. I pulled out every penny except $100. And I told him, I said, this is what's going to happen here. We're going to pay this loan back and you're going to sign a partition and exchange agreement and a separate, a special warranty deed putting our house and Land, which is pay, paid for in my name, is my sole and separate property, or I'm going to take this $12,000 and I'm going to buy, hire the best attorney in town, and I'm going to get it anyways. And so he agreed. I paid the loan back, and he did sign the partition and exchange agreement. Our house that is paid for is in my name. Our land that we owe $23,000 for

[Caller Female 2]

is in my name.

[Caller Female 1]

And I thought all was well. And so then on the 24th of April, we went to a retreat for bereaved parents. And the whole time he was in my ear about buying a truck. I want to buy a truck. And I'm like, listen, we're here for Matt and Abby. I've lost two kids. I've lost two children. And anyway, after the retreat, I got a lot out of the retreat for me. After the retreat, on the way to the airport, I told him, I said, listen, I want us to fight for our marriage. And I told him, I said, I need you to know that I have stayed all of these years, years for Abby. And after her passing, when you did this crap in March, I stayed to protect her home. Because we built this house for her. Everything about it is handicapped accessible. And I said, I stayed for her. And I said, I don't have to do either anymore. I don't have to, like, I need you to fight for our marriage. I love you. The following Monday, last Monday, he went and got another loan. 30% interest. And he bought a truck in another town, another state, for $3,500. All of these parts coming in. All the random stuff is coming in.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm confused. Okay, so he has a very clear message from you as to what's going to happen. And he does this anyway. So Dr. John Deloney says behavior is a language. So he's just saying goodbye, isn't he?

[Caller Female 1]

I know. Yes, he is. And so I've spoke with an attorney, and it's going to cost me $3,500.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, so what?

[Caller Female 1]

I have it, Dave. I'm trying to figure out. I have just a little bit of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where's the $12,000 you're just talking about?

[Caller Female 1]

He spent it. He opened a separate account where he. Because he works out of town. And so he went to the town in South Carolina.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the other money. You said you had $12,000 cash from the other.

[Caller Female 1]

No, I paid the loan back. I did.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you paid the loan office?

[Caller Female 1]

Yes, because I Didn't. I was scared at that point that if.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, Samantha, this is a horrible situation. You've gone through so much tragedy, and in the midst of that, he's not able to function, apparently. And, well, he's always been like this for whatever reason. And. And so you're calling it into it. And so, yeah, that's what you're doing. I mean, there's not. You just. You gonna go get an attorney and they're gonna advise you on how to do this. If you didn't sign the loan. Loan, you are not liable.

[Caller Female 1]

No, we are both on the loan. The land, the. So our house is paid for. We bought. We bought a separate lot that our house is on.3 acres. We bought an additional 3 acres.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll sell them both. It doesn't matter.

[Caller Female 1]

I can't. I can't. Dave, we're doing for Abby.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, Abby's not there anymore, honey.

[Caller Female 1]

I don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Abby's in heaven.

[Caller Female 1]

I only owe $23,000. That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know.

[Caller Female 1]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have to live there.

[Caller Female 1]

I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, you can.

[Caller Female 1]

No, I'm not. That's not an option. I just can't do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

The deal. The deal is this. The deal is this. As long as you have that property in his name in any way, shape or form in Texas and you're married, you're gonna have a problem. So you've got to decide.

[Rachel Cruz]

I think Abby would want you happy, Samantha.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And a house doesn't define. Abby's memory. Doesn't live in a house. House. Abby's memory lives in your mind and in your heart. And you're in an untenable situation. And you can't use Abby as a reason to stay in a situation where you're being abused and not physically abused, but financially abused. And you're going to draw a line in the sand and there's going to be some costs that go with that to get you this protection. You may or may not keep the house. I don't know if you can keep it or not. I'm not sure. Sure. But I want you to deal with this and quit trying to make him do stuff. You know, he has told you loud and clear what he's going to do if you expect him to change under any circumstances. I mean, if he put all that. If he gave you the deed, everything to the house, and you told him if he ever does it again, you're going to take it all. And then he goes and does it three more times after that. This guy's made a real clear statement. This is who I'm going to to be. If you don't like it, tough. And so now you've got to decide what the rest of your, what the next chapter of your life looks like, what healing looks like over all of this, the marriage and the children, the

[Rachel Cruz]

purpose for your life. You had an incredible purpose, Samantha.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Of being a caretaker and what the mom you were to your daughter. And now there's another purpose for you in the world. And to be the healthiest you, Samantha, it is to get out and define that. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Next chapter. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. One of my best friends in the world because I read one of his books 25 years ago, reached out to him and we've ended up speaking on stages all over America for the last 25 years together. Been a part of the Ramsey family indirectly for a long, long time. Dr. Henry Cloud, acclaimed author and leadership expert, clinical psychologist, New York Times best selling author, many times over. 45 books, including the iconic boundaries that have sold nearly 20 million copies. I sold at least 2 million of those. He has an extensive executive coaching background and a brand new book out that is one of my favorites that Henry's ever done. It's called you'd desired future. Welcome, my friend.

[Henry Cloud]

Good to be here.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, Henry.

[Henry Cloud]

Hey there.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good to see you.

[Henry Cloud]

Two of my favorite people.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so happy you say that to all of us, all your podcasters.

[Henry Cloud]

Only when you know, when it improves in the next generation.

[Rachel Cruz]

Keep it going, keep it going. We love Henry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Five essential steps that take you where you want to go. I distinctly remember you coming into Ramsey, into a leadership meeting about 20 years ago that we were having and we were arguing about this particular business unit that had the flu. It wasn't doing good. And then you embarrassed me because you said, well, what do you want it to be in five years? And I said, I want it to be making money and profitable. And you went, well, no, no kidding. But no, really, what is your desired future for this thing? And that's the first Time. I think I heard the phrase out of your mouth, desired future. And then what must be true, that's not true today for you to get to that desired future. And that not only applies to a business unit that's got the flu. It applies to your health, your marriage, your finances. Hello. Getting out of debt, all that kind of stuff. So your desired future, this is a framework that you've used to coach people, right?

[Henry Cloud]

Yeah. Companies and individuals. What I did was, you know, there's so much stuff out there. It's good stuff. And people go, I gotta do this. But I thought, wouldn't it be helpful to have a little model that's a gps? You wake up every day and know, if I'm trying to get there are these five things present. And ask the question, is there a universal path for that? And. And studied the human body, the most incredible organism, to get him from here to there. And Dave was amazing. You know, the brain, the prefrontal cortex, starts out with a vision. We're the only ones that can see a future that doesn't exist. A dog doesn't do that. And then it gathers a team. The talent's gonna need him to get there. You know, your arms and legs. And then it says, well, how am I gonna get there? I'm gonna call an Uber. Well, not to go across the room. You're gonna get the right strategy with a plan. And then you. And you gotta. Your brain, it creates a measurement and accountability system, and you start walking that plan. You get off, and it fixes you. And that path has components to it that are really, really crucial.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. That are so helpful. And this can be applied to every part of your life, Right?

[Henry Cloud]

Yeah. These five steps, it's a mom getting the kids in the band in school on time. Or seriously, I have glitched global companies, billions and billions that use this as their operating system. And I mean, you guys, when I looked at financial peace years ago, I said, dave, this works because it's designed in the way that people get from here to there. And all the components are there.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the five components. It starts with vision, which is, I guess, the desired future. Right?

[Henry Cloud]

It is. And here's what's interesting about your brain. The way it's wide. The brain hates ambiguity. It can't stand it because it doesn't know what to do. It loves clarity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Even if it's bad news, it likes bad news. That's clear. Better than no news.

[Henry Cloud]

That's right. Because once it has clarity about where I am now, and I don't Want to be there and I got to get somewhere else. It starts to activate these systems that bring everybody to the party to actually get there. But if you don't have clarity, I mean, I've heard you quote stats from the stage. What's the people that write down their goals? Was it 80%? More likely? Oh, yeah, because you're giving your brain clarity.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's why the baby steps, I feel like in our world are so effective, because it's like, step one, get $1,000, step two, get out of debt. Step three, it's an obvious pathway of a vision of where you want to

[Henry Cloud]

go with measurement accountability that asks the question, once you've defined the specific activities that are going to move the needle, then you've got to ask yourself on a regular cadence, am I doing what I said I was going to do? And if I'm not, I got to correct that problem, which we all have problems. We miss a day. But if you don't correct it quickly, it becomes a pattern. Patterns are mutations in the strategy that become your DNA and DNA becomes identity. So I'm not a person that missed a payment. I'm a person that. That misses payments. You gotta fix it quickly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So what must be true that's not true now? And one of the things, one of the five things is, do you have the talent around you or within yourself in a business setting, do we have the right people on the team to be able to pull the thing off that we just said we wanted to pull off?

[Henry Cloud]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you look at them and you go, that bunch isn't gonna get us there.

[Henry Cloud]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then you got to get different people on the team. What about when it's an individual and you're looking at yourself in the mirror and going, I don't have that talent?

[Henry Cloud]

Well, we don't usually. I mean, whatever. Even if you wanted to, let's say you want to lose £50. Well, you've been trying and it's not working. So obviously all the talent isn't present. And so what do you do? You go bring the talent around you. Who's that going to be? Well, it could be one you pay. It could be Weight Watchers, it could be a coach, it could be a trainer. It could be Uncle Sam. Who? Not that Sam. Uncle Joey. Uncle Sam's probably not going to help you do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Uncle Sam help you lose weight for sure on my wallet.

[Henry Cloud]

But you're going to. We were not designed to get anywhere by ourself. If there's Somewhere you can get by yourself. Somebody else helped you to get that ability to begin with. So you got to find out where are the deficits and who do I need to bring to the point party that can help me? And that's what. That's what people in debt do with you guys. They find the talent that's gonna help them get there.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So good. Okay. So when people are. When they look out there and they have a goal and they think, here's what I wanna do, and that could be, again, bettering your marriage. That could be a health goal, that could be a money goal, whatever that looks like. Or even within business. What's a mistake people make all the time that you're like, oh, this. If they knew one of these five things or if they were doing this to. They probably wouldn't make it as much or at all.

[Henry Cloud]

The biggest mistake, besides the vision, I mean, you gotta know where you're going. But the biggest mistake is they're like, my dog, Finley, she's got a job, she's got a goal. It's to protect the house. Stranger comes to the door, she runs the house and barks, but she never stops and says, I wonder if that was helpful. Is that gonna get me closer to where I want to be on Thursday? So the biggest mistake is they don't get above what they're doing and ask the question, is this going to work? Are the ingredients present that are going to get me there? What we do is we just continue to go in our own patterns. The caller earlier that I heard when I was in the green room, he wants to start a business. If he started a business, which you, gosh, you got to start, he would just go do the way he's already wired. And a lot of times, until we learn something and we do things the way we're already wired. Good luck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What must be true that's not true today. Do I need more talent around me? Do I need some education that I need?

[Henry Cloud]

Do I need impulse control?

[Dave Ramsey]

Impulse control, yeah. I mean, what must be true that's not been true so far? What pattern, what set of movements have to change to get to the desired future? Because if something didn't need to change, you'd already be there.

[Henry Cloud]

You'd already be there, we wouldn't be. I mean, you know how to find lights, right? But here's a good example. When, you know Tom Brady's got at this time five or six super bowl rings in Tampa Bay, who hadn't been to the playoffs in 14 years, called him and said, come down here and win a Super Bowl. Well, he knows how to do that. He didn't have a vision for that, but the first thing he did was he looked at that team. What's not true today looked at that team. You're not going to win a Super bowl without talent. There's four positions that are missing. He picked up the phone, recruited the talent next. And they won the super bowl the

[Rachel Cruz]

next year and got the people around them.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it wasn't just Brady.

[Henry Cloud]

No, it wasn't just Brady. It's not your own talent.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[Henry Cloud]

That's good. There's something missing.

[Dave Ramsey]

The new book is yous Desired Future. We'll be back with Dr. Henry Cloud. Talk a little bit more about it. The five essential steps that take you where you want to go.

[Caller Male 1]

Sam.

[George Camel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Doctor Henry Cloud. The new book is called your Desired the five Essential Steps to take you where you want to go. So step one is you got to know what the desired future is. That's called vision. Step two is what?

[Henry Cloud]

Step two is you got to engage the talent, bring the talent around you. That's going to help you get there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Step three.

[Henry Cloud]

Step three is you got to know how you're going to get there. And that's a strategy with a plan. Plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so in our world, that would be the baby steps.

[Henry Cloud]

That'd be the baby steps. But the plan tells you when you're going to implement those, who you're going to meet with.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, you got to get every

[Henry Cloud]

detail, every activity that's going to move the needle. Everything else is, I'm going to go

[Dave Ramsey]

to the gym three days a Week.

[Henry Cloud]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Strategy is I'm going to increase my water intake, decrease my sugar intake, so on. Right?

[Henry Cloud]

Yeah. And the debt side, you're going to pay down this amount, this amount every month. And you got it. And then you got to step forward, measurement, accountability of that. Are you doing what you said you were going to do? And if you're not, then you better ask the question, why not and solve that problem and then fix it quickly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I've heard it said, I think it was an old Earl Nightingale quote, that when it comes to goal setting and all this is, is a detailed approach to actually implementing and causing the goal to have happen, not just setting it. It's not as simple as setting it. But he used to say that doing what it takes to hit the goal is not usually people's problem. It's what they have to give up

[Henry Cloud]

a lot of times.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. They don't understand what they're going to have to give up to get there. That's right. The trade off is what the negative trade off is the real price to be paid to get to your desired future.

[Henry Cloud]

That's right. Because usually the things we have to give up, there's an emotional attack

[Caller Male 4]

or

[Henry Cloud]

there's some sort of immediate gratification in it. It feels good to go make that impulse buy. It feels good to eat that high fudge sundae. It feels good to avoid that difficult conversation. It feels good to not have to make 100 sales calls. And there's that kind of immediate comfort or gratification or there's an avoidance of something difficult. You, you know, a lot of times difference in people that reach goals and the ones that don't. It's not brains and talents and abilities. It's some are willing to do the things the other people don't want to do. And the number one factor that loads on the accomplishment of a goal is not motivation, because that will wane now. It's important, but your motivation is going to go up and down. Number one factor is the belief that it's possible. The belief that it's possible and the little incremental steps that bring that about. One of the things that you, I keep talking about you guys because you've been doing this well for so long. There are so many people that are drowning in debt. How am I going to. It's impossible. It's possible. And then they turn this on and they see somebody who was in more debt than them come and do the scream and what are they? Their prefrontal cortex kicks in and says, Wait, it's possible. Now check that one off. Now I just got to get the plan. But if your brain doesn't believe that that's why testimonies are so powerful and being. Just getting out of your circle. Some people grow up in poverty or belief systems, and you can't make money if you don't have money. And all this junk in their head. You got to get out of that circle even to begin to have a vision for what's. That's why you gotta surround yourself with people that have done it and are doing it. Then it becomes possible. Now I gotta get curious about how they do it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And creating the new habits around it. And what you said about the comfort you're having to give up what's comfortable. Michael Easter was on the show last week talking about the comfort crisis, his book. And how. Oh, gosh, yeah. When you do anything difficult, you're gonna feel that stress, you're gonna feel that 10 attention. But most of the time that result ends up being a better situation for your life than where you were. But yet in our world today, in 2026, I'm like, it's. The comfort's everywhere though, right? We get to set the degrees that we want in the room. We get to listen to the music we want, when we want it, watch what we want. I mean, it's just. We can Amazon. I mean, like the. The amount of comfort we have today on demand. On demand, personalized to us of what we want, our algorithms, everything. Like it is watching to get out of that. Do you feel like it's harder today than ever before?

[Henry Cloud]

You know, one of the ones that scares me the most is the parental comfort. It is a lot more comfortable to hand your kid an iPad to shut him up than to step in there and have some limits and some boundaries and go through that temper tantrum or whatever you gotta do. And we have a generous generation of kids that have grown up that have not heard the word no and had to deal with the discomfort of hearing the word no and the structure. And that one scares me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Interesting. From a generational standpoint.

[Dave Ramsey]

From a generation, this is the first two generations that we've ever had a parent call when we're interviewing someone for a job. We're doing a job interview and the parent gets involved.

[Henry Cloud]

Oh, in your company?

[Caller Male 1]

Yeah.

[Henry Cloud]

The parent.

[Dave Ramsey]

The mother of the 24 year old

[Rachel Cruz]

will call and say what? Like they applied.

[Dave Ramsey]

They want to influence the process. Oh, they want to help.

[Henry Cloud]

Yeah. So late for that, Mom. You should influence that process. Years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No, I mean, they want to help junior get a job and, you know, but instead they just, you know, they did just the opposite by calling. Because I don't. That makes me think. I don't think I want this guy.

[Henry Cloud]

No, because you got to hire a mom, too, to get the work done.

[Aaron]

That's right. That's right. That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

But. Yeah, but stepping out of the comfort, I think, is a big one for people today to achieve the goal that you're talking about and what you're talking

[Henry Cloud]

about in this book, what gets better that has value. Name one thing of value that gets better without paying first some kind of price.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Henry Cloud]

There's two paths. There's easy and then it's going to become harder, or there's hard now and then it'll be a lot easier. Those are the only two rows you can go down. Pick your pain. You're going to have a little now

[Dave Ramsey]

and a lot more love.

[Henry Cloud]

Or you can have the other side where you take a little pain. Now it hurts to pay down that debt a little bit each week, but look what you're going to have later.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pay a price to win. Live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness.

[Henry Cloud]

That's it. I have watched this boy right here in the last five years. I played golf with him. You talk about pain. That boy and everybody with him was going, I mean, we're looking for balls in swamps and places.

[Megan]

Where is he?

[Henry Cloud]

They don't let people.

[Rachel Cruz]

Where is he?

[Henry Cloud]

Listen to this. And it's painful. And he would just hit it and then it was awful. And then he'd go do it again. But he put a strategy together. He got. And I'm playing with him now. It's unbelievable. But he had to go through the pain first. And we shared it, but we love it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, Henry, I think one of my dad Dave said it in the last segment. One of the. My favorite. One of my favorite books for you is Boundaries, and you talk about necessary endings. There's been a couple of these. What caused you to write this book? Because you have been in the relation. You were in the relational. Right. Counseling world for so long, too, and moving kind of more to the business side as well, with people. But why specifically, what need did you see that you're like, I need to write this book.

[Henry Cloud]

The need for people wanting to get somewhere, whether in business or personally, but not having just a simple path of how it works and it applies to everything. You know, if you look at Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, they both had a vision similar. You look at how the styles were very different, but these five elements were present in both. And if you can just have a simple path, then it's easy to get in the morning and say, okay, are these things in place?

[Rachel Cruz]

That's what it is. The clear message. I love it. So good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good stuff. The new book is your desired the five essential steps that will take you where you want to go and my big takeaway. Henry and I have worked together on this and we worked a little bit with Pat Lincione too on a modified model that he and I used as well as we put all this together as Henry put all this together, but we stole pieces of this. And the whole thing I get to is just okay, this is where I desire to be what must be true that's not true today. Positively what must I gain, but also what must I give up to get to where I need to be to get to that vision and then lay out the clear steps, put the talent in place and then hold and measure accountability and then don't let the patterns shift off of the goal. Dr. Henry Cloud, my friend, thank you for hanging out with us.

[Henry Cloud]

Thank you. It's good to be with you always.

[Dave Ramsey]

Check it out. The book is your desired future. Absolutely amazing. Foreign.

[George Camel]

Hey George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home? It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish, guides, a podcast, and even an in depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com real estate that's ramseysolutions.com real estate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, Psalms 37:21 the wicked borrows but does not pay back, but the righteous is generous and gives. Bob Hope said, a bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove you don't need it. Somewhat true. Hey, buying or selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price. The Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust who help make your home a blessing and not a burden. It's easy. Just compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the right one to work with. We don't put anybody on Ramsey Trusted. That's not Ramsey Trusted. Yeah, you can find a real estate pro for free@ramsey solutions.com slice agent and click the link in the description. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast, John is in Boston. Hey, John, how are you?

[Caller Male 3]

I'm doing great. How about you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller Male 1]

That's good to hear.

[Caller Male 2]

Yeah.

[Caller Male 3]

So I am in a kind of a precipice with my job right now, so I am working in finance. I'm making a good living, but I'm considering quitting it to do my YouTube full time, which has been pretty successful lately. Though the instability of it worries me and I'm not sure if I should make the jump on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. What do you make at the finance job?

[Caller Male 3]

So right now I'm pulling in about 90k after bonuses.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's the YouTube income looking like?

[Caller Male 3]

So recently it's been about 250,000. But this hasn't been like this. I've only been doing this for a few years. It hasn't been like this consistently enough, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you made twice as much.

[Caller Male 3]

Yeah, yeah, I know. It's just, I worry that, you know, with the instability of how my income goes up and down each month, I've even had a scare where I almost lost the channel. Channel and YouTube could just go poof overnight.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's true. Even though they might not go poof, but they might poof you.

[Caller Male 3]

Yeah. My channel specifically.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that could happen.

[Caller Male 3]

That's gonna stay around.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's happened. That's happened to better people than you. Yeah. And so good job, though. Yes. You ought to work on the YouTube. What? What? I mean, you're able to pull off a quarter of a million dollars. What advantage would you have if you were working full time time at it? What could you do?

[Caller Male 3]

I've considered trying to expand it. I've also kind of plateaued in terms of what I can do on the channel. I've tried everything I could.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so what advantage is there to quitting your financial.

[Caller Male 3]

I'd be a lot happier.

[Caller Male 1]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't be working all the time. Okay. But it doesn't really add revenue. It doesn't add revenue.

[Caller Male 3]

No. It's mainly because I know with the finance job, I'm in a Great career path. Long term, I'm going to be set for life. Like, I will be financially sound and, you know, I'm at a point in my life where soon enough I'm probably going to want to settle down, buy a house. I want to have a consistent income and know that, you know, when I'm 40, 50, whatever, I'm still going to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your YouTube income is as consistent as you are for the next five years. Okay, yeah, that's true. Yeah. And unless you do something to poison pill yourself, okay, you say something or do something that gets you banned for life. Right. That kind of a thing. But as long as you stay, you know, keep your nose clean, so to speak, you know, you're going to be fine. The thing that the biggest danger there is twofold of, you know, you're a finance guy, so you're not. When you're, you have one platform that you're doing everything on, you're not, well, diversified. So you are completely subject to the whims of the YouTube algorithm. And they do change every day. I mean, yeah, we've had literally billions of downloads on YouTube. So our guys really know what they're doing here at Ramsey with this stuff. And so we make a lot more than 250 on it. But it's also, we're not, we made the decision to be platform agnostic and not be exclusive exclusively stuck to this one particular thing. So we didn't buy one single stock. We want to be diversified and have a mutual fund. You follow the metaphor.

[Caller Male 3]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you need other places to be doing whatever this wonderful thing is. It's getting all these eyeballs like a podcast platform. Spotify also now has video. You need to have other places carrying you and that stabilizes you. And, and you need to be very aware of everything that's changing. TikTok now is video. Everything is changing every day in all of the platforms and be following the trends. But don't move all the house chips on one platform. Don't bet the farm on one platform. That's your danger right now. If you had a more diversified platform Strat and had worked that out, you'd be a lot safer. And as YouTube becomes a thing of the past, becomes the MySpace of the day. Right? And someday it will. Every one of these technologies, Twitter was a big deal and then it wasn't and now it's trying to be again. But I mean, these things come and go. As long as you're not dependent on one of them and you know, the next one to jump onto, then you're not going to get eaten by the algorithm alligators. So if you can do that, whatever it is, whatever piece of content you're doing that's producing that kind of income is going to be valuable on other platforms. So I would diversify my platforms and then I would quit.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And I assume, John, the content you're putting out, you love, would you say, like you're good at it, It's a passion, it's fun.

[Caller Male 3]

Oh, yeah, I definitely, I have a lot of fun doing it, which I don't hate my day job.

[Dave Ramsey]

But if you're making three or four times your day job, you can't call your day job stable compared. Because you got to screw this up for four freaking years to break even. As your break even analysis, if you're making 400 because you've got more platforms going and you're making 100 on the other, you got four years of margin to screw up. That's not unstable. That's like saying I can make 150 as a CPA in the open market, but I want to make 40 working for the state government because it's stable. Well, that's not stable. That's just mathematically stupid. You follow me?

[Caller Male 3]

Yeah. They could fire me at any time. So in that sense it's also.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. But you're only as secure as your ability to leave the cave, kill something and drag it home at any time. All of us are.

[Caller Male 3]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so can you go get another position and do something else with another platform and if you've got multiple platforms and you're not handcuffed. Golden. Handcuffed to one of the platforms.

[Rachel Cruz]

Are you married, John?

[Dave Ramsey]

No. He said he wanted to settle down later, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, not yet. Okay.

[Caller Male 3]

Yeah. I'm in my mid-20s, so hopefully in the next few years.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I was just curious.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now the other thing is this. We haven't discussed the content and I'm not going to because I don't want to get into that with you. You. But is the content a fad?

[Caller Male 3]

Not necessarily. It has ups and downs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Like we, we had a guy, we got a friend named Jimmy. What's Jimmy's last name? The generosity guy. What?

[Megan]

Darts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Darts. Jimmy darts. Jimmy's making a bazillion dollars and he's got a generosity play on thing on YouTube that's massive. He's killing it. It's massive. Generosity is not a, a fad. He does this wonderful thing. Giving creates, giving situations, helps people, all this stuff. And it's fabulous content, but like making

[Rachel Cruz]

slime that was a fad two years ago, all the kids were doing it and now not as much. So. Yeah, it's a good point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whatever you're doing, it can't be something that's going to. That the actual content is not. What we do is going to. People are going to be in debt as long as there are people. So we're not going to run out of material, you know, we're not going to run out of content. And so our stuff is what we call evergreen in the business and content business. Okay. So you want. As long as you're evergreen and you got multiple platforms, don't confuse that with stability. You have stability because you have talent at that point.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good job, man. Very cool.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's exciting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Neat discussion.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, and I would always think too, in the back of my mind, if all this, you know, whatever went poof in four years, his knowledge of finance and what he. If he had to go back into the workforce and do it, he could. Yeah. You know what I mean? You're in your mid-20s.

[Dave Ramsey]

Finance doesn't.

[Rachel Cruz]

You can do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So even what you've been doing in your day job, John, gives you a little bit of that kind of back pocket, get out of free jail card in a way that you're like, okay, if it all does five years from

[Dave Ramsey]

now, two plus two still going to equal four.

[Rachel Cruz]

I can plug back in. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent. Yeah. Dad, gum? Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's like if you had a cpa. Accounting is not going to change.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it's the same kind of

[Rachel Cruz]

your book of business now.

[Dave Ramsey]

You might, you might be, you might not be viewed as having a fresh resume or whatever, but you can get moving again on it. And so you got a good fallback. And that knowledge of that world should give you some business insights, some business acumen into managing your new digital career.

[Rachel Cruz]

Great, John. How fun. Good luck with it all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, man, I hope you get. I hope you do wonderful things with it. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the book. So we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily to the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.