Stick to the Plan Even When It’s Tough

Summary

The Ramsey Show: "Stick to the Plan Even When It’s Tough" – Episode Summary

Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and co-host Jade Washall delve into various financial challenges faced by listeners. The episode, titled "Stick to the Plan Even When It’s Tough," released on April 16, 2025, offers practical advice on maintaining financial discipline during difficult times. The discussion is enriched by guest speaker Brian Buffini, a renowned business expert, who shares insights on wealth-building and the immigrant journey in America.

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1. Leasing Farmland for Solar Farms

Caller: Jade Washall from Portland, Oregon

Jade Washall, a 70-year-old caller, seeks advice on whether to lease her farmland to solar companies. She is contemplating retiring by 80 but is conflicted due to her husband's attachment to the land and their financial circumstances.

• Key Points:

  • Evaluating the Offer: Dave emphasizes the importance of assessing the company's financial stability to avoid long-term liabilities. “You’ve got to make sure this company is solvent and has the staying power to honor the lease for 30 to 40 years” [(02:19)].
  • Impact on Heirs: Concerns about leaving leased land to heirs, potentially complicating future property management.
  • Alternative Solution: Dave advises selling a portion of the land to generate immediate funds, suggesting Jade could sell 10 acres to obtain approximately $1.5 million [(05:21)]. This approach allows her to retain most of her land while alleviating financial strain.

• Notable Quote:

  • Dave Ramsey: “You're not going to like my answer, but I wouldn't tie up a $3 million asset for that...” [(05:04)]

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2. Immigrants and Wealth Building with Brian Buffini

Guest: Brian Buffini, Founder of Buffini & Co.

Brian Buffini discusses the significant role immigrants play in building wealth in America, highlighting that a substantial portion of U.S. millionaires are immigrants or children of immigrants.

• Key Points:

  • Seven Principles for Success:

    1. Voracious Openness to Learn
    2. Do Whatever It Takes Mindset
    3. Willingness to Outwork Others
    4. Heartfelt Spirit of Gratitude
    5. Willingness to Invest and Delay Gratification
    6. Remembering Where They Came From
    7. Consistent Contribution to Family and Community

  • Cultural Contribution: Emphasizes the importance of immigrants contributing positively rather than relying on entitlement programs. “If people come here to take, you've destroyed the very reason to be an immigrant” [(15:20)].

• Notable Quotes:

  • Brian Buffini: “The American economy, business is so much bigger. There's so much bigger markets than ever before.” [(12:22)]
  • Dave Ramsey: “Don't despise humble beginnings.” [(14:30)]

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3. Managing Significant Debt as a Law and Medical Student

Caller: James from Miami, Florida

James, a soon-to-be law graduate, and his fiancée, a medical student, seek advice on managing $700,000 in combined debt, including student loans and a mortgage.

• Key Points:

  • Debt Breakdown: $350,000 in student loans and $350,000 in a mortgage.
  • Dave’s Recommendation: Sell the mortgaged property to eliminate the debt, encouraging James to live frugally to pay off remaining debts swiftly. “Live on nothing. Get a tiny little studio apartment... and then clean up as much of your debt as you can.” [(28:04)]
  • Emotional and Practical Stress: Highlighting the psychological burden of heavy debt, especially for professionals like lawyers and doctors who might feel invincible financially.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Dave Ramsey: “You are a broke freaking lawyer that is way over leveraged and you ain't even a lawyer yet.” [(30:08)]
  • Dr. John Deloney: “The stress that it takes on you working at your job...” [(29:13)]

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4. Refuting the Necessity of Credit Cards for Building Credit

Caller: Ava from Agape Christian School

Ava questions the necessity of having a credit card, aligning with her mother's belief that credit cards are essential for building credit.

• Key Points:

  • Alternative to Credit: Dave and Dr. John suggest that credit cards are not necessary if one can manage life with cash flow.
  • Reasons for Credit Cards: Highlighted reasons include building credit, filling financial gaps, or accumulating points — each with its drawbacks.
  • Practical Advice: Encourages saving for major purchases like cars or houses rather than relying on credit.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Dr. John Deloney: “People don't need credit to get through life.” [(40:54)]
  • Dave Ramsey: “Or your mom is.” [(40:54)]

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5. Navigating Rising Expenses While Building an Emergency Fund

Caller: Hayden from Tampa, Florida

Hayden and his wife are struggling to build an emergency fund and pay down $96,000 in debt despite earning a combined $103,000 annually. Their primary challenges include high childcare costs and substantial car payments.

• Key Points:

  • Expense Management: Focus on reducing major expenses like car payments and childcare costs.
  • Budgeting: Emphasized the need for meticulous budgeting using tools like EveryDollar to track and allocate every dollar.
  • Income Strategies: Suggested exploring side hustles or increasing income streams to manage debt more effectively.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Dave Ramsey: “You know, you have to have something. I need something.” [(50:03)]
  • Dr. John Deloney: “You do need to get on EveryDollar.” [(52:42)]

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6. Resolving Complex Mortgage Situations with In-Laws

Caller: Spencer from Dallas, Texas

Spencer discusses a unique mortgage situation where his in-laws financed his mortgage without expecting repayment before their passing, complicating his financial planning.

• Key Points:

  • Mortgage Restructuring: Dave advises clarifying the nature of the arrangement, possibly converting it into a formal mortgage or asking the in-laws to forgive the loan as an inheritance advance.
  • Emotional Implications: Highlights the strain that such arrangements can place on personal relationships.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Dave Ramsey: “You need to get your one-bedroom apartment, dude, neat beans and rice.” [(28:04)]
  • Dave Ramsey: “This is the Ramsey Show. ... We love you enough to tell you the truth.” [(28:04)]

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7. Success Story: Matt and Laurie from Oregon City

Matt and Laurie share their journey of paying off $95,000 in debt within 24 months while earning between $123,000 and $162,500 annually. Their disciplined budgeting and mutual commitment were key to their success.

• Key Points:

  • Joint Effort: Emphasis on teamwork and unified financial goals.
  • Budget Adjustments: Cutting non-essential expenses like dining out and prioritizing debt repayment.
  • Lifestyle Changes: Adopting frugal habits, such as cooking at home and eliminating unnecessary luxuries.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Dave Ramsey: “You guys are set relationally for the rest of your lives because you've already killed a large dragon. And you did it together.” [(75:54)]
  • Matt: “We changed our habits. We no longer ate out. We had game night.” [(69:31)]

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8. Promoting Financial Tools and Resources

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey promotes various financial tools and resources to aid listeners in their financial journeys:

• EveryDollar App: Highlighted as a critical budgeting tool that helps users track spending and allocate funds effectively.

  • Notable Quote: Dr. John Deloney: “Nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend. So here's the hack. Get on a budget.” [(75:54)]

• Laurel Road and Zander Insurance: Mentioned as options for student loan refinancing and identity theft protection, respectively.

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Conclusion

The episode reinforces the importance of sticking to a financial plan, especially during challenging times. Whether dealing with substantial debt, questioning financial norms like credit cards, or navigating complex mortgage arrangements, the advice centers on disciplined budgeting, prioritizing debt repayment, and making informed financial decisions. Success stories like that of Matt and Laurie serve as motivational examples of how commitment and teamwork can lead to financial freedom.

Takeaway: Consistent budgeting and disciplined financial planning are essential for overcoming debt and building lasting wealth, even when faced with significant challenges.

Final Note: For more personalized advice and to join the Money and Relationships Tour, listeners are encouraged to visit www.ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr. John Deloney are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait. Get your [e-mail] tour brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ranch Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washall, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you are here. The Phone number is, call-8825-5225. You jump in and we'll talk to you. Abigail's in Portland, Oregon. Hey, Abigail, how are you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Good morning, Jade and Dave. So such a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I am 70 and working a great deal, trying very hard to make it possible to retire by 80. Recently this last year, I've had two offers from a company that would, if I followed those, they would probably make it possible for me to retire within a few years. But I feel a need to really this company, and I'm not sure how to go about that, to be real thorough and making sure I'm not going to get myself into a big pickle. Another thing is that my husband would never approve of this, but he's in very poor health and doesn't expect to live long.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are we talking about? What are we talking about?

[Jade Warshaw]

This is a company that establishes solar farms across the nation and they pay a good rate of rent for your acreage and they install.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you had two different offers from the same company. Okay. I mean, basically they want to lease the land for 15 years, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

For 30 to 40 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

30 to 40 years. Okay. All right. I've looked at these deals. I've had some friends that had some that were a little bit older than you. And the only question in the deal is twofold. Number one, you've got to make sure the company is solvent and in the event of that they're strong financially. In other words, in the event they go bankrupt, obviously this lease is canceled. And then you've got a bunch of junk on your farm that's gotta be hauled off. It's very expensive to get rid of it. And so you've gotta make sure this company's got 30 years worth of staying power. Financially, you're probably not gonna be here 30 years. I doubt I'm living to 110. But, but you might. But, and, but but you're leaving this mess for your heirs then. And my friend that was in their 80s, was talking to their kids about what their kids wanted to do because it really would only affect the 80 year old for a period of time. Right. And the kids would then have the issue with the family farm having a solar farm on it. So why would your husband not do it?

[Jade Warshaw]

He loves his farmland.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Just that simple. Okay. The other downside is that you basically can do nothing with your piece of ground. It now has a lien against it. I mean, you could sell it, but it's still encumbered by this lease. It's a lien on the property.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so if someone, if someone wanted to buy. Buy it, they couldn't. They'd have to accept the lease as part of the equation.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that's how our, Our friend decided not to do it, because he didn't want that. He didn't want the farm tied up for the kids.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What is the land worth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Currently? About 3 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how many acres are there?

[Jade Warshaw]

It would be 45 acres.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how many and what are they offering you and how much of it are they going to tie up?

[Jade Warshaw]

It would be most of it all but about 6 acres. Well, it would be 45. We would be renting, but it would be about 4 million over 40 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what? You're not going to like my answer, but I wouldn't tie up a $3 million asset for that and have my whole backyard full of this. I would. Instead, I would sell some of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, thank you for that. That has been a consideration.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would sell 10 acres and use that money to live off of.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. And we could do that. And it's also something my husband is not eager to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sure he would not want to do either of these things, but that's emotional. And we're talking about how you're going to eat, which is what you're worried about. You're working at 70 years old, worried about how you're going to eat at 80.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so your husband didn't save enough money when he was young and working to provide for his wife's food. And so we're going to sell some of his land to do that. I'm sorry, that sounds cold, but I mean, that's the way my mind works. Okay. And so, yeah, I'm going to pick out how I can carve off and make a million and a half on 10 of the 45 acres that are maybe some premium. A premium cut of the 45. Right. And you just got to decide how you're going to parcel that out in Portland, Oregon. And I'm going to start talking to a real estate agent about subdividing this and how I can, where I can drop a line with a surveyor and I'm going to do that to eat with. And you still get to live in the place, you still got 35 acres which is very nice way that he wants it. If you do it properly you get to configure which 35 it is. Right. But we've got to get enough out of the other to sit down with an investment broker and create an account. And if you did it right, you probably could get a million and a half. If the whole thing's worth three, I bet you could sell a third, a fourth of it for a million and a half. I bet you could.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then you think about in the future when her heirs get it, what it's appreciated to. And now they don't have to deal with the red tape of having that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Solar lease on there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It, the problem with again her situation and the situation I looked at was the same one was not as much the next 10 years, it was the following 20 years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's a long time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's a ground lease. You can do long term ground leases in commercial real estate. But this is go, this is, it's not a scam, it's an actual offer. And but you know, the one thing we do know about solar is it's technology. And I can tell you this, you know what a 20 year old solar panel is? Useless, useless. Because the technology has advanced dramatically in the last 20 years. And so what you've got is, you know, you've got something the size of a tractor trailer that's doing what something that would, that the size of a car would now do. Right, right, right, right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And they've got to dispose of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, and it's, it's, you know, it's a big old bunch of junk to haul off.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Holy smokes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And yet we bought it thinking, oh, we're going to make all this money over all these years when people are buying solar. Now you can buy solar. There's nothing wrong with buying solar. I don't have a problem with that. This is a different discussion here. This is people leasing her land and then what they do is they sell it to the local. They sell the electricity is created to the local utility.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Interesting.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's where they make their money back.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. It just didn't feel Like a fair deal. 4 million over 40 years for a piece that's worth 3 million today. Felt I'd want more. At the very least, I'd want more money out of the deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you still own the ground, but you can't do anything with it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's what I'm saying. So at that point, like you said, it's kind of useless at that point, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good discussion.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the lean against. It's an interesting discussion. I've not had that on the air before. I did have it, obviously off air one time. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, listen up. Everyone is at risk of identity theft. I don't care if you're a hermit living off the grid, listening to the show on a battery powered radio all of your day, collected by every company you've ever done business with. Lives online. Your bank, your doctor's office, retailers, the apps on your phone, the gas station where you have loyalty rewards. They all store your info online, making them ripe for a cyber attack or data breach. That's why I've been telling people for almost 25 years they need an ID theft protection plan. And the only one I've ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. They monitor your personal and financial info, even your home title, and take over the work if you become a victim. It's the most thorough and affordable plan out there. I even have it for my family and our entire team. Visit Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Well, look who's in the house. Brian Buffini, one of the nation's top business experts. Founder of Buffini & Co. Based in Carlsbad, California, the firm is dedicated to sharing the powerful message of lead generation systems. Primarily started out in the real estate world. Brian and I met each other probably 20 years ago. He's a New York Times best selling author and speaks for us regularly at Entre Leadership. Will be coming back with us in 26 and was in town doing some other stuff. Came over and did our staff devotional this morning and owned it again. Absolutely fabulous. Welcome back, my friend.

[Brian Buffini]

Thanks for having me. Great to be back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. So the ones that don't know the story, you came here from Ireland in the 80s and you got this classic American dream rich story with a rags to riches. Being a legal immigrant.

[Brian Buffini]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And is that still possible now?

[Brian Buffini]

Yeah, I'd say more possible now than ever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why is that?

[Brian Buffini]

Well, you know, I have six kids, so I. They get this seminar all the time. You know, I think if you don't have a sense of entitlement. It grew up not having much. Have appreciation for the opportunity. And you get to see the opportunity. You know, fish discovers water last. And here's the other thing. And again, I am, if you ask people like myself who are immigrants to America, they're the most fanatical Americans. I became American by choice, not by birth. I'm, my kids are in military and so on and so forth. But I'll say this, I'd say the work ethic in the United States is not what it was 35 years ago, 40 years ago when I came. Money is more available than it ever was. And so I think money's available. Your competition's not working that hard. People are a little bit of entitled. And I'll say this, if I was 19 years of age and I happened to get hit by a car like I did in 1986, I think I could build my fortune in half the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Why? Because, because, because there's just not any competition. Because you can.

[Brian Buffini]

The opportunity is more than ever the opportunity. The American economy, business is so much bigger. There's so much bigger markets than ever before. You don't need, you know, with social media and the things that you can do to market and advertise yourself now, you can go so much faster. You know, Dave, you building your brand today compared to building your brand when you started out?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You know, there was no Internet when.

[Brian Buffini]

We started, there was no Internet, so. And then capital is available when needed for certain things. So I just think that. And I do think a little bit. And again, that's why a little bit of adversity would be helpful to America is folks want, they want easy, quick millionaire overnight. That's why Internet gambling is huge now. Bitcoin is big now. I want success. I want it now. And I think one of the things about immigrants is you had to sacrifice to come here.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Brian Buffini]

I mean I just left. My mom just passed last week. You know, you had to leave your family and you have to come here to pay a price to get here. You guys teach delayed gratification. There's a reason you have a big market because it's a foreign concept.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So there's like a level of skin in the game that you're saying. I was reading a couple statistics and it was something like 1 in 3 US millionaires are immigrants. At one point, over 48% on the Forbes 500 were immigrant run companies first born or child of an immigrant. So you're saying that skin in the game and coming from a sense of not. Not approaching it, from a sense of entitlement. You think that's the.

[Brian Buffini]

I wrote a book about it. I'll give you seven principles in 30 seconds. Number one is a voracious openness to learn. And number two is a do whatever takes mindset. Number three is a willingness to outwork others. We just talked about it. Number four is a heartfelt spirit of gratitude. Immigrants are very thankful to America and thankful for the opportunity. Thankful to their customers. When was the last time somebody said that to you? Thanks for your business. They're willing to invest, they're willing to delay gratification, and they always remember where they came from. And I think if you can always remember where you come from, it gives you great perspective. Dave has his old car on display here. We used to sell stuff out the back of the car. It's right when you come into the lobby. Never forgets where he came from.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't despise humble beginnings.

[Brian Buffini]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it. Yeah. The stats are. The data that we have says if you come to the country legally, you are four times more likely to become a millionaire than someone born here.

[Brian Buffini]

Yeah. And it's a touchy subject.

[Dave Ramsey]

Those are the reasons it's a touchy subject.

[Brian Buffini]

And that's why the legal immigration route is a sacrifice. If people come here for entitlement programs, you've destroyed the very reason to be an immigrant.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[Brian Buffini]

You actually take away all of the seven gifts you have. You take away that. We proved it in Ireland. Ireland. We had. We had 450,000 Eastern Europeans come to Ireland in the mid to the early 2000s. And when Ireland got into trouble and had to do an austerity program, cut back all the programs, 450,000 people left the country. So they didn't come to contribute. They came to take. You have to be willing to come and make your own. You have to be willing to come and make a name for yourself, make a business of yourself, make a life for yourself.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know what's interesting? The Americans that I run around with anyway, do not resent that immigrant. They don't resent the one that came here to add value. They don't resent the one that comes here legally. I don't hear that at all. And so it's not a. A racism thing, and it's not a, you know, I just hate people that don't. That weren't born in America thing at all. Because American is the land. America is the land of immigrants for sure.

[Brian Buffini]

It does a terrible disservice to people. If you take away the very essence of being an immigrant, it does a terrible disservice.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the podcast, the Brian Buffini Podcast. We're talking with New York Times bestselling author Brian Buffini. Today is called It's a Good Life. Be sure and check it out. So what's been your experience doing a podcast? Because you're a speaker, a coach extraordinaire, and then you sit down behind a microphone like this now?

[Brian Buffini]

Yeah, well, it's a little different, you know, and I, like when I wrote a book, I found out as a writer, I'm a great speaker. And then I found out when I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was on tv, I got a face for radio. Exactly.

[Brian Buffini]

And, you know, when I, you know, just because you can buy a microphone doesn't make you a broadcaster. You know, and being Dave Ramsey is not as easy as people think. You know, here's what I do. I get a chance to interview people I'm really interested in and ask them things. I had you on today and I asked you as a business mentor of mine, as you have been, I got to ask you some questions that helped me in my business today. I got a couple hundred employees I got to take care of. I got a pretty good business going. And, you know, so I get a chance to meet some fabulous people and ask them their stories, and you hear some wild stuff, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

The largest and most successful coaching company in America today, coaching real estate agents. By far, not even a close second. I grew up in the real estate business, and so one of the things I've been asked lately, and I was asked this the other day on a podcast that I was a guest on, is Gen Z feels like they can't buy a house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Millennials, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, and some millennials feel like they can't talk about that because you're square in the middle of it.

[Brian Buffini]

I'm square in the middle of it. And we have some research and I have access to some stuff that isn't really out there in the marketplace today. You know, I don't. How old were you when you bought Your first house?

[Dave Ramsey]

22?

[Dr. John Deloney]

36.

[Brian Buffini]

Great. That's. That's the world we live in. So I'd give you two words for the real estate business today. Older and richer. Older and richer. That's who the clients are. Average age of a first time buyer three years ago was 32. Today it's 38. They're putting off getting married, having kids and having families. Very destructive to the culture. The average age of a seller is 63. So it's older and richer, and so. And it needs to. It needs to shift. And, you know, Scott Turner's the new Secretary of Housing, Urban Development. Good friend of mine, played for the Chargers, and I'm meeting with him at the end of the month to try to help in this regard. We've got to create programs to get younger people in the game, but also younger people got to be willing to do what it takes. And it's this. You got to be willing to fight for it. You got to be willing to sacrifice it. Are you willing to do a side hustle? Are you willing to do a side hustle? Are you willing to save every dime on that side hustle? Invest it, grow it? Are you willing to fight for it? It's got to be that important to you. I think what needs to happen is people need to understand the value, what it means to a family and a culture and a community when you're a homeowner. And so are you willing to fight for. You will delay gratification. You will move a little further out of town to get a start. You know, are you willing to have some difficulty in doing it? Are you willing to not have to go out with your buddies and. Or take the trips? Are you willing to go. Okay, you know, it's ramen. You know, when I bought my. I bought a house about a first house, then I sold it, but a second one bought a third one, third house, nice big home. We had three empty rooms of no furniture for two years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I understand that.

[Brian Buffini]

Kids could play and they could roll and do whatever, and guess what? Dad invested. Dad grew, and then eventually mom could have all the furniture. She.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dude, I was a teenager before we had living room furniture. Yeah. Yeah. And that was a thousand square foot with unfinished basement. Yeah.

[Brian Buffini]

You play ball.

[Dave Ramsey]

I even thought about that. You said that. Yeah. It didn't bother us. I didn't need counseling because of it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's true, though. You have to. You have to be willing to do what it takes to get the real estate my husband and I rented for 10 years so that we could afford and save up in order to do that. So you're right. It's still attainable. Just have to do what it takes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You were in the process of seven years and $465,000 in debt to be paid off. So that's what. That's what kicked the can on that can.

[Brian Buffini]

I tell one story before we go. No more. Tight on time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Brian Buffini]

My mom just passed, as you know. Thank you for the Flowers from you and Sharon. My mom and dad were engaged for seven years back in the day. Okay. Gonna be promised to be pure one another, whatever. Seven years they were engaged. They wouldn't get married until they could buy a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. There it is. Brian Buffini, ladies and gentlemen. Check him out. It's a Good Life is the podcast and you can follow him at Brian B U F F I N I Brian Buffini. Thank you, my friend. Thank you guys.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey guys, I'm Jade Warshaw and I want to talk to you for a second about student loan refinancing. Okay. If your payment and interest rate are burying you and you feel like you can't dig out, refinancing your student loan might make sense because a lower rate could help you free up more money and your budget and a shorter term could help you pay down your debt faster. So reach out to the student loan refinancing experts today@l Laurelroad.com Ramsey. There you'll find helpful resources like a student loan rate table, a refinancing calculator and other tools. Plus, you can get an initial rate in just a few minutes. Laurel Road offers low competitive rates starting under 5%. You can even get your interest rate lower if you sign up for autopay. If your situation is more complex though, sign up for a free 30 minute consultation with one of their student loan refinancing experts to get your tough questions answered. Listen, not everybody should refinance their student loan, so make sure you run the numbers, but for some people, it's the right move. Learn more@l Laurelroad.com Ramsey to find out more about this, their student loan refinancing, that's LaurelRoad.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

James is in Miami. Hi, James. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi. Thank you. So I just had. I just was wondering if I could get some advice. So I'm about to finish school and me and my fiance are currently going to be about $700,000 in debt. And now that I'm finishing up, Lord, I'm starting to get a little, little worried.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm worried and I just met you. What are you. Who's the doctor? Who's the lawyer?

[Jade Warshaw]

So I am finishing law school here tomorrow actually and my girlfriend is in her third year medical school.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Both of you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so you're not done, like for her. She still has schooling to go and this could even get greater, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

So these are the. So her debt is what it will.

[Brian Buffini]

Be at the end.

[Jade Warshaw]

So her debt currently is less. This, that Calculation is with, when are.

[Dave Ramsey]

You supposed to get married?

[Jade Warshaw]

We are planning to get married next May.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And, well, we don't do anything together until we're together, number one. I mean, we could talk about it, which is fine. I don't mind planning for what we're gonna do, and that's very wise on your part. But you're graduating now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're gonna sit for the bar this summer?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, sir. In July.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. And she graduates when?

[Jade Warshaw]

It's going to be 2026 or 2027.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Two years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

When is there the opportunity to start making money? And what do you think you'll come in at?

[Jade Warshaw]

So, you know, God willing, I will pass the July bar, and September is when I would get those results. I have already signed a contract with a firm for 150,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, that's good. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And her income, obviously, during residency, they don't pay them very well. She's going to be coming in about 55, 60,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she's in residency now, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Third year.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, she's in her third year.

[Jade Warshaw]

She's in her third year of school. She'll be in residency in two years. So just be my income for the next two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And then she'll have 50. So you're going to go 150, 200, and then when she gets out, hopefully 400.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. Well, obviously those are the numbers. The income numbers are what we're going to use to clear up these 750. I can't breathe. Thousand dollars. So here's the big. I mean, if you said, okay, we're going to live like two college students until this is paid back, you're going to have it paid back fairly quickly after she graduates.

[Jade Warshaw]

That. That is. That's the goal. And one of the questions I was wanting. So, you know, out of that 700,000. 350,000 of that is the student loan. The other 350,000 is the mortgage that I have on a property that we live in.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, so 350.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought you had a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you. I thought it was 750,000 in student loans.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm feeling much better now, but not.

[Jade Warshaw]

That much better is 350,000 in student loans and 350,000 in a mortgage that we have about.

[Dave Ramsey]

When did you buy this house?

[Jade Warshaw]

So I bought this at the beginning of law school.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

How have you paid for it?

[Jade Warshaw]

I've been working and living off of student loans.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, you've been paying for the house on student loans.

[Jade Warshaw]

So the, the rental market down here when I came to law school.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the, what's the house worth, James?

[Jade Warshaw]

The house is worth currently around 390, 400.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so you don't owe. You don't. You owe almost on it what it's worth. And you've owned it three years.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I, I mean, so the way I. The loan is not through a bank. It is through a family member. And they deferred my mortgage for the three years that I was in law school. So I have not collected any interest, nor have I made any payments on the property.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the property is not gone up in value while you've owned it for three years?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, sir. It's gone up about 45.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing. Okay. So I'm shocked.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How easily can you get out of this? Like, what's this? Is it. Sell it like a normal. Like what's the terms of this?

[Dave Ramsey]

You can sell it and pay off the family member now, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, do that. You can't have a house right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You have no income. You've got $350,000 of debt. And here. Do you want to know where my mind goes in July when you have to sit for the bar and you realize the stress and the pressure that's going to be on you? You're. Do you see what I'm saying? That plays into how you're going to test. It plays into everything. So if I'm in your shoes, I'm trying to offload half of this debt immediately so I can go sit for this bar and realize that I can have. Do you see what I'm saying? And alleviate some of that pressure along with some of the debt because this is a scary situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get your one bedroom apartment, dude, neat beans and rice. And go to law and go to work as a lawyer making 150 and start cleaning up the remaining debt. We just got rid of half of it by selling it off. And you're not going to do that because you still think this is a good idea, but you called the wrong show. Because we love you enough to tell you the truth. It was not a good idea. And whoever your relative is helped you step into a bear trap. And bear traps take your leg off. They're not for playing. And so you need to get. You're not going to do it. But what you should do mathematically and the fastest way for you and your fiance to become wealthy is for you to live. Live on nothing. Get a tiny little studio apartment. And that's cost nothing there in Fort Lauderdale. Yeah. And then go. And you don't need to live in downtown freaking Miami Beach. You can't afford it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, no, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so get out there in the burbs and get you a deal and then work your tail off and live like a college student sitting on a beanbag with concrete blocks for your law books and boards between them and you know, and whatever, whatever living like a college student looks like in your mind. But not the college you went, not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The way you've been going, not a luxury college.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you clean up as much of your debt as you can before you all get married and before she graduates. And the instant she graduates and her kicks in, if yours isn't gone yet, then you use her additional income and you all are married to at that point to combine everything and attack them in this order. But you should be. If you'll do all of that, you could be a hundred percent debt free in three and a half years from today, including her graduating two years from now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dave, talk about this for a minute because I think it's worth it. So here we offer a benefit called Smart Dollar. You can have it in your business, but the point of it is the stress that you feel in your life when you have student loans, when you have debt, the stress that it takes on you working at your job.

[Dave Ramsey]

You were the one sitting with $200,000 worth of it. You know what the stress feels like?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I do, but I feel like people forget about that. I. People forget about the toll that it takes on you to perform every single day and to show up as the person that you want to be. Because without knowing it, your debt drives you to make decisions that you would not normally make. It drives you to choose a job that you might not have normally taken. It drives you to do all of these things because it is now the number one factor. I have to pay off this debt. To sit for a bar with $700,000 of debt weighing on your shoulders and think that you're going to perform the way you would have if you didn't have that debt. Like, these are the things that we've got to think about when we make these decisions.

[Dave Ramsey]

And James, I'm going to insult you now also potentially so hold on. In 35 years of doing what I do, the hardest people to convince, to use common sense, are the smart people and lawyers and doctors. The level of arrogance that comes with that often that I think I'm smart, I'm in the top echelon of the Society. And the rules don't apply to me. They apply to you, son. You are a broke freaking lawyer that is way over leveraged and you ain't even a lawyer yet. So act like it. Some humility to approach this table of common sense is necessary. And it's the hardest group of people I have to talk into. It is. And medical doctors out there. I'll go ahead and make you guys pissed too while I'm at it. You're not even in the top five category of millionaires. The top five. You're number six on the list of people that become millionaires because medical doctors are about as notorious as people in the music business or the acting world for being stupid with money. Only they add a level of arrogance to it because they're so freaking smart. And so don't be too smart for your own good is my point. And if you're not, then you can end up with a lot of money here, son. When you're 30 years old, you guys are going to be very wealthy if you'll go through and follow through on what we're saying. But I don't know if I got you or not. I don't. I don't have any idea. This is the Ramsey Show. When you go through a job loss or job change and lose your employer sponsored health insurance, there's no better time to try Christian Healthcare Ministries. That's right. There's another option besides COBRA to take.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Care of your family during that time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because if you didn't know the cost of COBRA has gone up a lot in the past few years. And CHM is an affordable, biblically based alternative to health insurance. So do your own research. CHM is a great option that's potentially a third of the price of cobra. It's a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And the support you get from CHM goes beyond helping you pay for medical bills. Members become part of a family that prays for them when they have a medical event. Try getting that with cobra. So if you're going through a job loss, life change, or just want to explore other options to save on healthcare, CHM might be perfect for you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

CHM programs start as low as $98.

[Dave Ramsey]

A month, so find out [e-mail] budget that's chministries.org budget Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. Let's face it, Our money and relationships work together to help us win or they work against us, cause us to lose. You don't have to stay stuck in this area. I'm going out with Dr. John DeLoney on a six city tour. We're going to do the money and relationships tour in this coming Monday. I'm going to be. We are going to be in Louisville, Kentucky April 21. Durham A week from today, April 23 on Wednesday, Atlanta week from Friday, April 25. Phoenix, May 5, Fort Worth May 7 and Kansas City, May 9. Tour starts next week. Kansas City and Fort Worth are almost sold out. Do not wait. Get your tickets right now and go to ramseysolutions.com tour or click the link in your show notes. Either way, Spencer's with us in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Spencer, how are you doing?

[Jade Warshaw]

Great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi, Dave.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi, Jay. Thanks for having me on. Hope you're doing well. Got a question for you. So I'm currently on step two and expect to make it through step four within the next 12 to 15 months. But I'm looking, I'm looking ahead here and I got kind of a unique mortgage situation and that's kind of what I'm wondering and kind of wanting some insight on. So about four and a half years ago, my in laws helped us purchase a house and essentially bought the house for us. And they're our lender and so we pay them a mortgage every month which doesn't include any type of escrow or anything like that. But I set up the payment based on what we could afford and we're never going to pay it off. And my in laws have had that conversation with us and they're, they're in their late 70s now, so it's basically going to get folded into, you know, some sort of inheritance. Is it in my best interest to essentially avoid step six in this situation? I'm a little conflicted because it's not really in our best.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do you owe your in laws?

[Jade Warshaw]

So we owe them 348, 296. Right now the house is.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they have no intention of receiving that from you before their death?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, not at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's the size of their estate?

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know that exactly. I've never had that conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Millions or tens of millions?

[Jade Warshaw]

It's, I would venture it's probably in the millions. I mean, he retired in his late 50s.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how many siblings does your wife have?

[Jade Warshaw]

She has one sister, older sister.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And my suggestion is you all quit pretending that this is a mortgage. All of you and so what I would do is sit down with them and say, look, we need to restructure this, okay? We either need to go get a mortgage and pay you all off and then we'll get the money, of course, when you pass away as an inheritance, or you guys can just take advance us a portion of my wife's inheritance by just forgiving this loan. Of course that's what should happen.

[Jade Warshaw]

But it's certainly an awkward situation to have. You know, no one ever wants to have that conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I don't want to have it. But you all signed up for this awkwardness and it makes sense.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It makes sense. It feels presumptuous, like to go in and say that I understand that, but it does make sense. And if they're logical people, I feel like they would understand that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they can do that with what's called the unified estate tax credit. File a one piece of paper with their tax return. There'll be no gift tax on it. And then just your wife's portion of the estate is reduced by 350,000 bucks. And then you have a free and clear house. And we have jumped ahead to baby step seven, of course, which is a wonderful gift. And then you guys say, we promise to pay. They put the equivalent of house payments into investments so that your grandchildren are multimillionaires. That is the goal. That's what you would tell them. You tell them their grandkids are going to be multi millionaires because we're going to pay a house payment and then some into investments almost immediately because you guys are just pretending. It's this. This is not a real mortgage. It's a form of denial.

[Jade Warshaw]

Exactly. No, it is, it's. It's kind of an oddball situation. And I'm not sure how often you've counseled somebody in this type of situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've counseled them plenty of times where they had a regular mortg the in laws, which is a mistake too because it changes the flavor of Thanksgiving dinner. Have you noticed the borrower is slave to the lender. And it's weird and it's awkward. And now every time I'm looking at my father in law, I'm looking at my master, not just my father in law. And it's weird. I borrowed money from Sharon's dad one time when we were broke. And he's the sweetest, nicest guy possibly to ever live. He is a sweet man. And I felt like dirt drug into the floor every time I walked in that house until I got that thing paid. He Never said an unkind word. He never rolled his eyes. He never. But I felt like poop.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Same.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's just awful.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's so true.

[Dave Ramsey]

It just, I mean, and Sharon, and she didn't care. As her daddy one didn't bother her. I was the only one with my panties in a while, you know, I mean, it was just. My God, I felt awful. And so y'all, you know, and that's kind of. He's being pretty chill about it, but he's got a little bit of that going on. So.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, he can't avoid it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would say. Look, I would say this is an awkward conversation. Mom and Dad, I want to have it because the plan is for us to never pay it off. So let's just change the structure of it and reduce the thing and go ahead and release the lien and make it a gift, an advanced gift against her portion of the inheritance.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And she needs to lead that conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, agree.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Agreed. But you need to be sitting there, too. And mom and dad, look, it's silly because you don't ever expect to get the money. So since you're never going to get the money, we don't have a plan to get out of debt. We have to wait on you to die to be debt free. And we don't want to do that. So we're either going to get a mortgage and pay it off ourself. Yes. Or we're going to pay you guys off. Or you're going to forgive it. So what do you all want to do? Because this thing, we're going to pay a payment that's not enough. That's not enough to do anything. And I'm just stuck like a rat and a wheel. No, thank you. Yeah, it's a mess. Our question of the day is brought to you by. Why Refi? Why Refi refinances defaulted private student loans, which are different than federal student loans. And it means you can't even make the required payments. If that describes you. Contact why Refi? For a low fixed rate loan customized for you. Why refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. In honor of Financial Literacy Month, today's question comes from Ava at Agape Christian School. She says is it necessary at some point to get a credit card? My mom says it is, but I want to think otherwise. Well, you are very wise, Ava, to want to think otherwise. Yeah, it's not necessary. And it's not wise really to get A credit card. If you're getting a credit card, you're probably doing it for one of three reasons. You're doing it A, because you think you're going to build credit, B, you're doing it because you have no money and you're relying on credit cards to fill the gap, or C, you've convinced yourself that the points are worth it. And so my guess is that you're probably thinking about building credit. And I would tell you that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or your mom is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, your mom is. And the truth is, people don't talk about it enough. We're some of the only ones out here saying that you don't need. You don't need credit to get through life. You can get through life just with the cash that you earn from your income. And a lot of times people fall back on, well, how are you supposed to get an apartment? How do you get a car? How do you get a house? Those are the three things that people are looking at. And the truth is, you can't have an apartment without a credit score.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not a big deal. Most of them will take you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Most of them, yeah. If you. If one doesn't take you to, you go to the next one. Obviously, when it comes to buying a car, we would say the best way to do that is to save up and pay cash. The first car that you buy is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Probably going to be the only way to do that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. What did I say best? Oh, the only. Yeah, Dave got me on that. The only way. Yeah. Your first car is probably going to be a junker, maybe pay $5,000 for. For it. But you save up and you trade it in and you add cash with it every time. And before you know it, you're going to be driving the car that you want to be driving. And then, of course, with the house, Ava, we suggest manual underwriting. Okay. And that's just them looking at your actual income to decide if you can borrow this money. And they're looking at things like trade lines, and they're looking at things like your income, your actual money. And so that's how that works. You. I say all the time, credit, it's a product. It's something that's being sold to you, and people benefit from that. What we're teaching the only person that really benefits from it is you. You're you. It is for you. We don't get paid because we tell you to live a life with a zero credit score. So that's one good way to sniff it out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Only one reason to have a credit score Borrow money. If you don't want to borrow money, you don't need a credit score. Simple. This is the Ramsay Show. You want to know more about something? Hey, technology has changed a lot in the last 30 years. Now the hot topic is AI. And I understand that it might seem intimidating, but if you use AI the right way, it's just another tool to help you work smarter and faster, like a calculator or a cordless drill. So if you run a business, you'd better get on board with it before you get left behind. And NetSuite by Oracle offers AI powered tools that help small businesses improve efficiency and make smarter decisions by bringing all their major business processes into one platform.

[Brian Buffini]

Platform.

[Dave Ramsey]

That way there's one source of truth for the real time data you need to take advantage of opportunities. Then you can forecast better, scale more efficiently, and streamline those manual tasks that take too long. So join the more than 41,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions that rely on NetSuite to help tackle some of their biggest challenges. And right now you can download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey that's free at netsuite.com Ramsey live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washall, Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today Chris is in Cincinnati. Hey, Chris. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi, Dave and Jade. How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, so I'm just giving you guys a call just because I'm trying to follow your plan. I've been listening for a few months and it's just at a point where I'm in baby step one and my wife and I were making more money than we ever have. But our expenses keep going up and we just seem. I can't get to the point where I'm able to, you know, build an emergency fund up and even start to pay down debt. More than just the minimum payments, which are a lot right now, what's causing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Your expenses to go up without you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, yeah, so we just had to start paying for childcare full time because I work full time during the day and work a variable schedule and so does my wife. It's very on demand. And so if that's about $2,068 a month and our minimum payments. Yes. Yeah, two girls and I'm just having to, you know, pay for that. And our minimum payments are large and they're cutting into our debt because a lot of them are like 0% so low APR, because I'm on payment plans.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's your housing? What are you paying every month for housing?

[Jade Warshaw]

500Amonth. I live with my aunt and uncle, and they have some health issues, so we. We do that for them. They help us out. It's a good thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so what's your income then?

[Jade Warshaw]

My wife and I, we make about 103,000 a year gross between us two.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much debt do you have?

[Jade Warshaw]

About $96,000 in debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

On what?

[Jade Warshaw]

So we got about 30,001 car, 17 on another, and about 25 in student loans and about a few. Probably about 10,000 in credit card debt and about 12,000 personal.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're going to speak directly into your phone. You sounds like you dropped into a barrel.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sorry about that. It was about $12,000 in personal loans and about 10,000 and credit card debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. How long y'all been married?

[Jade Warshaw]

We've been married since August of 2020. So it's about.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you made most of this mess in five years?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, we. We made some dumb decisions that I'll own. Buying a. Yeah, you just listed.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, the cars. The cars are the biggest problem. I see. The $30,000 car, what's it worth?

[Jade Warshaw]

It's about. Worth about 23. I'm upside down, but. And I know, like, one number one thing is, like, sell the car, get a personal loan to pay off the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Negative equity. But the problem I have is my job. I have to drive my own car, and I have to drive around, and it has to be, like, something reliable so I can. Like what kind of work.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't think they make cars less than $30,000 that are reliable?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I'm saying they do. But my credit is also really bad where it's hard for me to get approved for a personal loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, okay, that's. That's a different issue. But. Yeah. Who's the $30,000 loan with?

[Jade Warshaw]

General Electric.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you also called us and said you're stuck, so you have to do something. Agreed.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And you know, my.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your. Are you guys putting money in retirement?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, we stopped doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. When?

[Jade Warshaw]

Probably about a couple of months ago. We weren't. I was only contributing about 3%.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your. What's your tax return that gonna be this year?

[Jade Warshaw]

Last year it was like 4,500, but this year I'm trying to lower that, so I'm hoping so.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got it. You got a 4500 check coming?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, that, it already came. We already filed and got that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you've adjusted your W2 by $400 a month, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, I've adjusted my.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're already done?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, I already adjusted it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. That's good. How much do you have in savings? None.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, we have, no, we have nothing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what kind of work does your wife do?

[Jade Warshaw]

She's a assistant general manager at a fast food restaurant.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And so the most of the income is on your end, like split up your income. So I can.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it's pretty split. I make about 45 a year and her income's about 50. About 58,000 a year. So she makes more.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what kind of, you said you drive for your, what kind of work is it? What is it?

[Jade Warshaw]

I work in fire protection, so it's a lot of driving to job sites, doing inspections, service calls. I'll eventually have a van where it won't be on my personal vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

But are they reimbursing you for the use of your car?

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm only getting about $5 for every 25 miles. It's not a lot. So it doesn't, it just gives me my money back.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it doesn't. Your, your fuel, your fuel is more than that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I've talked to them about that before, but they just say, you know, that's, you know, that's just a tax money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's not, I don't think these are your long term career tracks, am I right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I'm working at a very small company right now and there's potential, you know, to eventually, you know, be in management and to own it and help it grow beyond where it's at now over time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And that's what you want to do or that's just the opportunity in front of you?

[Jade Warshaw]

I like what I'm doing. Okay. I don't know if it's going to work out with this employer for the majority of the time, but I enjoy the work I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

And yeah, you get to use your own car and we don't pay you enough. And the answer is tough.

[Brian Buffini]

Not.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not excited about your employer.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I see, I see. I, I, I'd like, I like to be able to see opportunity for growth or at least opportunity to side hustle opportunity, expand your income because it's, it's two pieces of this equation, right? It's getting the expenses down. We're going to give you every dollar. We're going to make sure you go through your Budget with a fine tooth comb to do that. But the other side of this is you've got to get your income up. And with what you're doing currently, it didn't seem like there was a path there. I don't know if your wife can do overtime, but you've got to get more money coming in here as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your take home pays 6,500, right, per month?

[Jade Warshaw]

We're getting about. It's probably closer to 6,000 every month is our take home every month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You shouldn't have $2,300 in withholding.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, that feels high.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think my mind's like, I have about 10% coming out, coming out my.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Check, but are you doing any investing? I don't think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

You should know.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, no, I'm not about 10% going to taxes month out of my check and my wife.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because a hundred thousand is eight, three hundred. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Huh?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're only getting. And you're. And they're taking out 2300. You don't have tax bill. 2300. There's something wrong with it. You got a bunch of health care coming out of that?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, no, there's not any health care.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. How much is your car payment on the 30,000?

[Jade Warshaw]

The car payment is a 620 on.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The 30,000 and the other one 17,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's that one, 400 bucks a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's a thousand. And you got 1500 out of 6000. And we got two cars paid and 2000 for daycare.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you're probably not paying anything on your student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they're in hardship deferral probably.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So where's the other half of your income going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Basically is what we're asking 1500 25, 33,500 of his daycare and two cars rent. And then you got to eat. I don't think you guys are living on a tight budget. Yeah, I think you need to get on every dollar.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, you do. So we're gonna have Christian pick up, make sure you get every dollar. And we're gonna make sure you have Financial Peace University. I think that you need a crash course in financial literacy, personal finance, how you manage your money. You and your wife go through it together. But your homework is tonight to create that every dollar budget. You can create it in five, 10 minutes, go on YouTube and George Camel and I will show you exactly how to do that on our YouTube channel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And if you find that your car gasoline bill is what's breaking the neighborhood back of this thing. Tell your employer you're looking for a job. Yeah, you guys, I get it. Inflation is hitting hard right now. Milk, bread, meat. The price of everything has gone up. So you can complain or you can do something about it. Like shop somewhere. Stuff costs less. I'm talking about Aldi, the newest sponsor of the Ramsay show. Aldi gives you a no nonsense approach to shopping and prices that won't bust your budget. Listen to this. Aldi shoppers can save up to 36% on a typical shopping trip, which adds up to about $4,000 a year for a family of four. So stop overpaying for groceries and start shopping smarter at Aldi where you'll save with the the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you today at Aldi us. That's a l D. I dot us Real change in your money and relationships is possible. You can break the cycles that have kept you from moving forward. You can build a better future for yourself. And it starts here. Hang out with Dr. John DeLoney and I live in a city near you for the money and relationships tour. Starting next week we'll be in Louisville, Durham, at Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City. Time is running out so grab your tickets while you [e-mail] tour. Thank you for joining us America. We're so glad you are with us. If you would like to help us out, we would definitely appreciate it. You can help us a lot by clicking subscribe or follow on the particular platform you're watching or listening to. And Spotify just launched a video. We're one of the first on that as well. You can check that out. Thank you. Amazon music is blowing up. You can check that out as well. So wherever you're listening to podcasts or watching us, YouTube, whatever it is, we would appreciate you following subscribing. Also you can share with some of those particular platforms. At the minimum you can click the cut the link out and send it to somebody, say hey, listen to the show, check it out. We would appreciate that you can leave a nice five star review. You could just tell somebody like old fashioned style like analog and say hey, I listen to a show. That's right and that would be fun and try that. So. Well, business owners, it's here. The build a business you love book is officially out. It's launched officially yesterday. It's available to start reading today. This is not just another business book. I started this company with nothing on a card table in my living room. We're now doing $300 million in revenue with 1100 team members, 650,000 square foot campus. How did we do that? What are the five stages of business? We coach over 10,000 small businesses in entree leadership. How do we coach them? What do we show them to do? Well, there's five distinct stages of business and six drivers that drive them. So we can show you every bit of that. It's pretty much the baby steps for small business. A little more complicated than that, a little different system, but it is at least a clear path towards success. You can grab your copy of Build a business you love anywhere books are sold, but certainly Ramsey Solutions.com or click the link in the description. Hayden's with us in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Hayden. What's up?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

My wife and I are starting over back in baby step number two, and she feels our budget is too restrictive without any room for fun money. And so my question is, what amount of our income should we budget for while in baby step two? And how do I get her fully on board without making her feel, quote unquote, controlled?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why are you starting over?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So in 2023, we took FPU through our church and we had a really great success with it. Got off all of our debt besides one vehicle. And at the time, our house, we hadn't moved in yet, but we had a house also that was in the future. And anyways, yeah, so unfortunately, what happened was my wife's started to kind of feel very controlled. And because she was not able to say yes to things like giving gifts for baby showers and not able to go out to eat for, you know, dinner with friends and stuff. And so she found herself always kind of calling me and being like, well, can we do this thing for $50? And I was like, it's not in the budget. And so then she started to kind of, you know, get mad at me as her, you know, spouse.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it sounds like you did a budget and told her what to do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. What's different this time?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Well, so ultimately since then, we've had a baby boy who was born in 23. 2023. And we have another baby that is coming in May, at the end of May. And so we're really excited. Yes. But ultimately I am. I'm freaking out. And I've told her many, many times about this. And I said, listen, like, we need to. We need to do something. And I, you know, John Deloney said it great. He said, I feel like a gazelle that is anchored Down. And that's genuinely like how I feel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But what changed with your wife? We know how you feel.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's never been on board.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it's. It's always been kind of my idea to do this. And she's been supportive at times.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, she's not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's only to a point. Right. She doesn't want to feel that until.

[Dave Ramsey]

She hears the word. Until she hears the word. No, she's supportive. She's not involved.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can you tell us more what the debt is and your income so we can see a clearer picture?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah, the debt's pretty bad. So credit card debt, we have 19,300. Okay. Cars were at 64,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can you break them down one and two?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yep. Car one is 27,000 and car two is 37,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Car two is hers. And you bought it since you went through fpu?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, that is correct.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is it a minivan?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. No, it's a Tesla.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And can you tell me what they're worth? What's the 27,000 $1 worth?

[Jade Warshaw]

I. I don't. I. I don't know. I think the 270001 is a Hyundai Santa Fe. So it's probably 18 to 20.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So now did you have that prior to MPU?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And the 37, what do you think? It's fairly new.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's. Yeah, it's fairly new. It's probably. You probably could get 28 for it. 30.

[Dave Ramsey]

So Hayden, here's the deal. Okay. She's not involved in this at all emotionally. And so you've become her parent and she doesn't like it when you tell her, no, she can't go to the movies, no, I can't do this. And you're getting tired of being the parent. So ultimately, you two probably need marriage counseling. You need to sit down with somebody not because of FPU and not because of Ramsey stuff, but because you're the only grown up and you're trying to raise a kid now and it's freaking you out. And what's good that you are freaked out because you need to address this issue. And so she's. Because a part of that goes all the way back to when you all were in Financial Peace University. She went against her will because her husband begged her to. And she loves her husband and she wanted to try to do what he wanted to do. She went in there and listened, but she did not buy into a different future that you saw. And once she gets the why you're willing wanting to do this why you're wanting to do this, why you're freaking out, then the how will change. But until she's in agreement with you about the future vision of where we want to go and why we want to go there, you're not. You're going to struggle. And you know, you didn't have the marital chops to defeat a $37,000 car purchase. That was absolutely asinine. It's asinine.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you knew it when you did it, but you went along with it. Trying to make someone happy by buying them stuff, and it doesn't work. Huh? It doesn't work. So if you can't get with her and the two of you say, say number one, I'm freaked out, honey. I'm carrying all the stress and all the load of these ridiculous purchases that I have allowed to be made in this house, and I'm freaking out, and I'm not doing it anymore. Number one. Number two, the two of us need to start thinking about what our future looks like in HD and what it's going to take for us to get to that future. If we cannot get aligned on that in the next 10 days, we need to sit down with a marriage counselor. Because I'm not going to be your daddy until you know anymore. And I'm not going to participate in a situation where you're whining to your daddy that his budget is too restrictive because you're imposing this on her and she's not got any adult ownership in the sacrifice that has to occur for you all to swim on this because you need to sell her car yesterday. It should have never been purchased. And you guys need to get on beans and rice, Rice and beans. And don't talk to me about baby showers when you've got dead up around your neck and you got a one year old. The only baby shower. Showering this kid in food and diapers. That's it, right? Your kid, not other people's kids. And don't talk to me about your Instagram life. I couldn't give a crap less about your Instagram life. But. But that's. That. That's. That's me being mean and forceful because that's what I see in yourall's lives. You guys have. You. You've got to want a bright future more than you want a false present.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. Yeah. My guess is there's something behind this. I think Dave is right. You go to counseling, you're going to figure out what that is, because there is something stopping her from Wanting to go all in on this. And usually we see Dave, that kids kind of trigger something in you. It's not done that for her. So my guess is there's something deeper in here. And I do think that counseling is going to reveal that. But at the end of the day, like, we're the only ones that can change. You can't make somebody change. So she's got to get. Get on to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you. But you've been talking about what way too much and not why.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you've got to work on that. And then she's got. She's gonna have to take an adult position in this relationship where we sacrifice together for the greater good of our overall family. Not I want something that you got a long life if you don't fix this. Dude, this is the Ramsey show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't want to do it forever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because when you rent, you're still paying.

[Dave Ramsey]

For a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because it always goes up, never down.

[Dave Ramsey]

So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner. You can rely on Churchill Mortgage.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership. Wisely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Churchill understands that when you buy a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into.

[Dr. John Deloney]

A baby steps millionaire.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get started on the American dream of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Home ownership [e-mail] that's churchillmortgage.com.

[Dave Ramsey]

Big news, business owners. It's here. My brand new book, build a business you love is officially available. To start reading now. Look, running a business is tough. Some days it feels like you're just duct taping the whole thing together. I get it. That's why I put 30 years of hard earned lessons into this book. To help you grow faster, make smarter decisions, and stop learning everything the hard way. Don't wing it. Get your [e-mail] store and start reading today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Matt and Laurie are with us. Hey guys. How are you?

[E]

We're well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good. Where do y'all live?

[E]

Oregon City, which is just south of Portland.

[Dave Ramsey]

Portland, Oregon.

[E]

Portland, Oregon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome to Nashville, on the other side of the United States. Very cool. How much debt have you all paid 94,504. 30. Good for you. And how long did that take?

[E]

24 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Two years, straight up. And what was your range of income during those two years? 123. 500 to 162,500. Cool. What do you all do for a living?

[E]

I'm in real estate. I manage commercial properties.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. And I'm a project manager with a building envelope consulting firm. Oh, wonderful. Very good. Very good. I think I found out how y'all met.

[E]

Yes, indeed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. Good. Well, welcome, guys. Good to have you. So what kind of Debt was the 95,000? We had some medical debt, some car loan. We had credit cards and a personal loan and a lot of student loans. Wow. Wow. A little bit. You were normal. Very. How long y'all been married?

[E]

Two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Two years. Oh, okay. So we come into the marriage full of normal, and you looked up and said, 24 months ago, boom, we're gonna knock this out. Tell us the story why you decided to turn on a dime like that. That's pretty cool. So we actually, before we got married, we got engaged, and we really wanted to be intentional in our marriage and do everything we can to have the best marriage possible. So we went through marriage mentoring with our local church, and it was an amazing experience. It's also very eye opening in things that we were very harmonious in in our relationship, but also things that were potential conflicts, and finances were one of those things. And so we were like, yeah, we don't want that to become an issue. It's one of the highest reasons for divorce rate, so we don't want that. So my work actually supports with our education credit, paying for the Ramsey Solution membership. Oh, wow. We're like, hey, you want to do this?

[E]

And so we did, and he brought it home. He set up the budget meetings. We stayed firm on the budget. We set up the every dollar budget and just really followed it through the process.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. No objections. Was there any part of you that was like, I want to do this, but maybe I don't want to do it this way?

[E]

You know, we kind of struggled with our opcon meetings. We called them opcon meetings because it just was quicker.

[Dave Ramsey]

More fun way to say it than a budget meeting?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[E]

So we turned it into, you know, how are. How are we going to look this month? We set out our schedules. What are our priorities? Do we have family meals? Do we have, you know, bigger expenses? Do we have work expenses? We have meetings that will keep us out late night sometimes and just really prioritized what was important to us at the time, which was paying off our debt, but also being able to live like no one else. So we can live like no one else and so trim the fat on our budget, cut out, you know, Starbucks restaurants, the non necessities and really paid off our debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cutting out Starbucks for her was a lot.

[E]

It was quick and easy.

[Dave Ramsey]

But yeah, the good news is not forever. No, no. Just no, no for now.

[E]

Yeah. But it was, it was great. It was wonderful experience to communicate and go through this experience as a married couple, as a young married couple and do the hard things so we can do hard things later and we prove to ourselves that we can communicate, we can be prescriptive in. In what we want and do the hard thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, see, this is the exact opposite of what I just hung up with the same thing. We had some advice, you know, and so because what happened here, though, is exactly what we prescribed to that other couple is that you were both aligned on why. Your big why. I heard it was the number one cause of divorce is money fights. We're not going to do that. We're going to. If the number one cause of bear attacks is going to the mailbox, we're going to send somebody else. I mean, we're not, you know, we're not going to do this. It's a danger zone. And so that our why is. And then you look at it as two grownups and you say, okay, for a short period of time in order to live like no one else later and to not have this money stress over our marriage, I can give up Starbucks or I can give up eating out, or I can give up whatever. But you're deciding this as two grownups together to get to a unified goal. That was a bigger why than the momentary I want it right now thing. And girls unity is very evident.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's very clear.

[E]

Yeah, we were, we were, we were very intentional on. These are the large expenses this month, be it, you know, be it infertility treatments, be it doctor's appointments, be it, you know, he's got a car repair. You know, we set those priorities early in the month. So we set our budget according to that. So we knew we had to prioritize. Here's our debt, here's our big payment, and here's what we can do elsewhere. And, you know, we changed our habits. We no longer ate out. We had game night. We found a new recipe online and we cooked together. We did a lot of meal prepping. That was kind of a natural thing that I did. But I brought it into our relationship to cut out. Going out, going out and eating lunch out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Interesting.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can do anything for a short period of time. And you paid off 50,000 bucks a year for two years, basically. And you did that on 123 to 160,000.

[E]

We did.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, and that, that's pretty impressive. You, you, you had a good life during that time, but still had substantial progress.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What I hear you saying that you guys did a good job on is with the budget. You had foresight. So all of these things that come up that people think, oh, this, I didn't know this was coming, or this felt like an emergency, or this felt like something, you guys had the foresight to look ahead and go, really, what is our life? Really? What like. Well, let's be honest. And there was a reality there, and I think that that's what helped you guys plan to be. Not only pay off the debt, but to do the things that are just normal parts of your life during that time. So they weren't things that were thousand. I gotta dip into my thousand dollar emergency fund. And that I think was really smart on you guys part.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was the hardest thing?

[E]

Saying no to gifts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we're big givers. We're both givers. So Christmas time was tough. The first Christmas was really hard. But yeah, saying no to trips. Saying no to. Did you get any, like, pushback from the person that was expecting to get gifts?

[E]

No, we, we had to cut out family travels. My family's not close by, so going to see my family meant, you know, $1,000 a pop plane ride. And so we had to say no a couple times and say, you know what? This, this just isn't the budget. And our parents were very supportive. They said, you know, we know you have those priorities. We still want to bring you out. You know, we'll cover, we'll cover your flight this season.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you learned that adults don't need gifts. Yeah, that's great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Firsthand.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They survived.

[E]

Yeah. Yeah. And we changed our, a lot of our habits. You know, eating out is kind of just, it's a luxury nowadays. And on occasion he works late, I work late. So food is just, you need food. But it didn't have to be, you know, $100 a pop restaurant.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know, that's right.

[E]

We changed it and we, we put it in the budget because we knew it was a necessity of just how we live our lives. But we didn't make it. It the only way to live our lives.

[Dave Ramsey]

How the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. And these two cannot talk without saying we. They're very we.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, you guys are very unified.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very unified. It's very impressive. I mean, you can see it's. It's like God gave us this contrast to a minute ago. I mean, it's just. It's the exact opposite. It's what I desire for that other couple. I hope they get that. I hope they can find their way to that because it changes everything. You guys are set relationally for the rest of your lives because you've already killed a large dragon. And you did it together.

[E]

We did.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're like, hold his head. I'll chop it off. You know what I mean? It's like, we're gonna get this boy. He's going down. Right? And very wise. I'm very proud of you. Very cool. I bet your parents are jumping up and down, excited for both of you.

[E]

We can't wait to sign up for the app. Yeah, they're, they're, they're thrilled.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Oh, we're thrilled for you. You're impressive. All right. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is do it together. Absolutely. Do the budget. You can do the budget, but if you do it alone, you. You're not going to get anywhere like you will with when you get it. Doing it together. So. Yeah. And those first couple of budget committee meetings, whatever you called them, I don't know, confabs. But yeah, the. They can be a big fight.

[E]

They were hard. They were not the easiest thing. He works differently mentally than I do. So I'm the planner. I do, you know, month calendaring ahead. And here's what we have planned. He's the analytical mind who likes the data, that likes the budgeting. So while he's coding things, I'm looking at the budget and thinking, okay, well, we have the family dinner. We have X's, you know, birthday.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[E]

So, yeah, we had to change it.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, Matt and Laurie, Portland, Oregon area. 95, 000 in 24 months. 123 to 162. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. 3, 3, 2, 1. We're debt free. Way to go, you guys. Here, heroes, baby. Heroes. I love them. This is the Ramsey show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

People ask me all the time, george, what's your number one money saving hack? Glad you asked. Nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend. So here's the hack. Get on a budget. Seriously, how are you supposed to save money if you don't know how much you're spending in the first place. And that's what makes the EveryDollar budgeting app a game changer. With EveryDollar, you'll get a clear picture of your spending, and from there, it's easy to see where you can get more intentional cut back and save more money. So how much money are we talking here? Well, the average EveryDollar budgeter frees up $395 in their first budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the hack.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And if you ask me, I think you're way above average and you'll save even more. So what are you doing still listening to me? Go download the EveryDollar app for free and start saving more money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right now, the Ramsey Network app is the only place to get all the episodes of the Ramsey show every day. You can download it for free and listen for free. It's all free. Did I mention it's free? Using the link in the show notes or by searching Ramsey Network in your app store, if you're on the radio, you're going to get what you've always gotten. But what is effectively the third hour of the show for talk radio is on the Ramsey network app. App for free. We do not charge for it. It is free. You can download the app for free. The Ramsey Network app, Jade. It's free.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, here we go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just making sure. Okay, Pete's in Bozeman. Hey, pete. What's up, Mr. Ramsey? Is that. Is that app free? Hey, I got my point across. I like it. What's up in your world, brother?

[Jade Warshaw]

Real estate.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got a real estate question for you. I don't believe in any kind of personal debts.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Except for buildings. And I got.

[Jade Warshaw]

I got about $800,000 worth of personal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Debt on buildings, a house and a vacation house. And then I got a commercial building that pays me about 14 grand a.

[Jade Warshaw]

Month, but costs me just shy of 9,000amonth in interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I turned a cool million in.

[Jade Warshaw]

The last two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the Mrs. Thinks we should pay off the personal stuff. But the personal stuff is financed at.

[Jade Warshaw]

Two and a quarter, and the commercial.

[Dave Ramsey]

Loan is financed at almost 9. And so I think we should pay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Off the commercial and then let the commercial tenants pay off the personal.

[Dave Ramsey]

She thinks we should pay off the personal. Take a deep breath. I got it. So the commercial, did you know you didn't personally sign for it?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It's all personal. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So how much is owed on the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Home.

[Dave Ramsey]

The house, your personal residence?

[Jade Warshaw]

About 800.

[Dave Ramsey]

About 800. The other property, the big one. The big one. You're calling commercial. What do you owe on it? Just over a million. Okay, one million. Okay. And what was the other property? Lake house. What?

[Jade Warshaw]

Vacation house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Vacation house. Okay. And how much on the vacay house? Oh, oh, that. The 800 was the house plus the vacation house. It's all together.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We'll break them out.

[Dave Ramsey]

300 and 500. Okay, gotcha. All right. And you have a million sitting in savings right now?

[Brian Buffini]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that was one years of income or two years. Just shy of two. Okay. All right. What does the next two years look like? Same thing. I would like to not have to work so dang hard. Well, I'm trying to get your debt paid off and you're doing pretty good. I'm proud of you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Fair enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're making a lot of money, so let's pretend that you could make another five. You said a million over two years, so 500 a year. So you can make another million in the next two years. So then the question becomes only which one we pay off first? Because you know, in the next two years the other one's going to get paid off anyway. Agreed.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In four years it's all done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. Okay. All right. So the point is we're not really arguing about what's more important. We're just arguing about two years. Okay? I believe so. Okay. All right. If I'm getting. Assuming you're working as hard as you used to work, so I don't know, after that you can do whatever you want because you're sitting on a couple million dollars worth of paid for real estate and other investments and an income potential that's incredible. So if you want to crank it back a little. Oh, well, that's great. But I'm probably going to keep the fires burning and knock these puppies out if it's me. I don't know what you're doing, but you're doing it well. Congratulations. I'm proud of you getting that income in. I'll tell you what I would do and then I'll tell you why I would pay off my home and my vacation home. Okay. And I'm going to do that for two reasons. Number one, when where you lay your head is paid for, it changes your swagger. It changes the way you're doing this. You're doing some kind of self employed business, I assume? Yes, sir. Are you selling? What are you. What are you.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's in.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm in media. Okay. Okay. So the, the the way I run my business is affected by the fact that I don't have any debt in a positive way. Okay. The swagger is just different. I don't have to worry about anything with my lake house or my personal residence or my office building in this case, too, because I don't have any debt. But. So I'm going to pay off your house and your lake house for that reason or your vacation house first. And I'm going to do that today because where you lay your head is the most important place. The second reason I'm going to do that is Proverbs in the Bible says, who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain. Your wife is saying, pay this stuff off and I'm going with her. In other words, because you'll have no lack of gain if you learn to listen to a virtuous wife. And that doesn't make you henpecked. It makes you wise to make decisions with your partner in life. And so I'm going with her for those two reasons. I'm going with the pay off the house first for those two reasons. And the math doesn't matter to me because the math difference over 224 months, which is all we're discussing, is negligible. Well, if you're going to quote scripture to me, I guess mama wins. No, I did worse than that. I quoted scripture to you about mama winning. Always say, happy wife, happy life. That one would be the tiebreaker. So I appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Pete. It's a good decision for him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Good for him.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's. He's killing it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, he's.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he's having fun.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He is.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he's fun.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He is fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

So great.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's about to have a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's got a. He's got a million dollar net worth already. Him and. Or more. Because I don't know what that building's worth above the million.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, he didn't say.

[Dave Ramsey]

He didn't say, but. And he's getting ready to have an excess of a 2 million, 3 million, 4 million dollar net worth. And he's killing it in Bozeman, Montana. Way to go, Pete. I'm so proud of you. That's so fun. The true answer of the story is you really can't screw this up if you do either one first.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, he's fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no big. Like, you're stupid if you don't do it thing?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't think so, but I do think that they'll have more peace if their homes, where they're at most of the time, is paid off first.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. When. Let me help you guys with something, too. Let me teach you something. When you think you're doing an analysis based on interest rate, which he said this was lower interest rate. Right. That we just paid off. When you actually multiply out the difference for a short period of time and turn it into dollars, how many actual dollars are different in two years only that's not much. It'll buy you a chicken biscuit.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Negligible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not a lot. Right. So sometimes interest rate, interest rates really matter a lot over a long period of time. But in a, you know, in a very short period of time, like I'm going to pay this thing off in six months or something like that. Some of you're looking at these things. It's like I'm paying off the highest interest rate, but in six months it doesn't matter.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Especially with his income, he could.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he's slaying it, man. He's just slaying it. That is so cool. And that's one of the reasons that the debt snowball has continued to survive is the thing. The idea that the interest rate doesn't matter because it's a short period of time. Because we teach to list the debts regardless of interest rate. And we're not talking about his situation. We're talking about everybody else out there. Smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. And attack the little one as if your life depended on it with a vengeance. When you knock that out, you get a positive feedback loop, psychologists would call it. In other words, you get an attaboy, you get some success, you go on a diet and you lose five pounds the first two weeks. You're going to keep doing it. Yeah, you're going to keep doing it. You're on a diet and you don't lose anything for two weeks. But I promise you, you're building muscle. You know, it doesn't feel right. That one just doesn't. That promise doesn't hold it. That won't keep me out of the donuts.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you know, you got it. You got to have. I need something. I need. I need some quick wins, especially on something new to give me the hope to continue. And that's why the debt snowball works. But truthfully, I would say when people get intense, like super high intensity, which is what we teach, and they're working together. They're paying off all of their debts except their home, typically in two years and less.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. And then. Then it really does, like you said, that interest really doesn't matter.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't matter. I mean, the 24% one, whatever versus the 6% one, it's just. It becomes irrelevant. And it was on $500. It wasn't on. You know, it wasn't like, it was not big money in those situations, so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

One of the reasons that the debt snowball. Arguments against it are humorous. If you were to actually do the math. Mathematics. That's what you're looking at. This is the Ramsay show. No matter what you want to do with your.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, what are you still doing here? You know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app, right? So you gotta jump over there to continue watching. You can download it for free. Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey Network, it's completely free, and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you. So jump onto the app and let the fun continue. All right, go on now. Don't make it weird. Okay, I. I got nowhere to go, so you need to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, bye.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Bye now.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, this is. It's getting weird over there, guys.

[Brian Buffini]

What do we.