Stop Being Sick And Tired—Decide to Change!

Summary

The Ramsey Show — Episode Summary:

Stop Being Sick And Tired—Decide to Change!

Date: December 8, 2025
Hosts: Ken Coleman & Jade Warshaw, Ramsey Network
Theme: Overcoming financial stress, making bold decisions, navigating emotional barriers, and building wealth no matter where you start.

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode dives deep into the emotional and practical challenges of taking control of your finances. Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw counsel callers dealing with debt, budgeting, major life transitions, and emotionally charged decisions. The show’s recurring message: Change starts when you’re “sick and tired of being sick and tired,” and you can win with money by adopting the right mindset, making intentional decisions, and following Ramsey’s Baby Steps.

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Segment Breakdown & Key Discussion Points

1. The Cost of Burnout, Life Balance & Money Stress (00:13–01:15)

• Ken and Jade introduce the growing issue of financial burnout and lack of work-life balance confirmed by their recent Ramsey study.
• Callers are invited to discuss both money and work-related struggles since they often “tie in.”

2. Caller: Lars — Massive Student Debt, Limited Capacity (01:15–09:01)

• Situation: Lars, a data analyst in Eugene, OR, has $156k in mostly student loan debt, a family with two young kids (one with special needs), a stay-at-home spouse, and just started a new job making $75k.
• Challenge: How to apply “Gazelle intensity” (Ramsey’s concept of aggressive debt payoff) without burning out his family.
• Advice:
  • Ken: Assess realistically how many hours you can dedicate to side work while protecting family balance.
  • Jade: “Much of what you’re going to struggle with is not going to be the math… There are going to be so many opportunities for your emotions to take over.” (06:43)
    • Recommended using the EveryDollar budgeting app to visualize payoff timelines,
    • Celebrate debt milestones as a couple to stay motivated.
• Memorable Quote:

  “This is going to be an emotional fight for you. So knowing ahead of time… the celebration is what’s going to keep you going.” — Jade Warshaw (07:50)

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3. Caller: Rhonda — Medical Bills, Budget Holes, & the “Defense” Trap (10:32–27:30)

• Situation: Pregnant mom in Phoenix with three young kids, variable income ($100k household), chronic medical expenses, emergency fund gets constantly depleted, stuck in a debt cycle.
• Key Issues: Confusion over what constitutes a true emergency, over-using the emergency fund for predictable events (like childbirth), no budget margin, $33k car loan complications.
• Advice:
  • Jade: Teach the difference between urgent/necessary/unexpected emergencies vs. predictable expenses (“Stack up money when you KNOW you’re pregnant; aim for your deductible and more.”) (13:25)
  • Plan for postpartum income loss (save $4,300 for the gap from return to work), sell assets, lean into side hustles, and consider deeper review with a financial coach.
  • Ken: “He’s going to have to work 60, 70 hours a week … especially with this car problem because we can’t get rid of the car.” (27:12)
  • Both: Frame budgeting as offense, not defense.
• Memorable Moment:

  “You made a decision today in the right frame of mind… please remember this call, write it down, put it in a frame, put it on the refrigerator… When that baby hits, you’re going to want to go the opposite direction.” — Jade Warshaw (27:39)

  “The celebration is what’s going to keep you going.” — Jade (07:50)
  “He’s going to have to work 60, 70 hours a week for a while. And I hate that.” — Ken (27:13)

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4. Toughest Money Emotions: Frustration, Anger, Fear (29:44–31:53)

• Jade’s New Book: “What No One Tells You About Money” is discussed as a tool for diagnosing the emotional check-engine lights keeping you stuck.
• Top 3 Emotional Challenges:
  1. Frustration with the complexity and slowness of progress.
  2. Anger over factors out of your control (inflation, economy).
  3. Fear of the unknown, major change, or giving up lifestyle comforts.
• Quote:

  “Radical change is fearful… we know what you’re walking through. We’re going to walk through it with you.” — Ken (30:48)

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5. Rapid-Fire Q&A Segment (33:09–46:02)

Includes advice on:

• Should teens earn allowance, and how to teach them to budget/save/give (34:00–37:00)
• Boredom burnout at work: why sometimes people “burn out” from not enough challenge, not from overwork. (38:30–43:00)
  • Quote: “Boredom is one of the biggest causes of burnout.” — Ken Coleman (41:01)
• Relationship money boundaries, especially in cohabitational relationships without marriage. (53:49–63:35)
  • Quote: “He doesn’t want to marry you in a union with you... he wants the benefits. Get out of there!” — Ken (57:45)
  • Jade discusses the dangers of “power indifference” in living arrangements (62:56)

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6. Family Inheritance Gridlocks: Should I Go Into Debt For Real Estate? (88:12–95:12)

• Laura, nearing retirement, faces a split among siblings: develop inherited $2 million Brooklyn property (taking on $1 million each in debt), hold and rent, or sell and split.
• Ken’s advice: Hold your boundary, refuse debt, demand fair buyout if others want to keep/develop, be firm but not combative.
  • Quote: “Hold, hold, hold. Don’t have to be ugly, just—guys, I’m…you can do this. I’m not stopping you.” (93:32)

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7. Strategic Home Buying Decisions (98:36–106:33)

• Caller May and her husband (debt-free, mid-20s, $200k nest egg) debate whether to put down more than 20% on a home or invest extra in the market for future property goals.
• Jade: “The best way to pay for a house is if you could put everything down. The security valve is, can I keep my home?” (101:23)
• Both hosts praise May’s discipline and recommend favoring financial security over market speculation, especially for a primary residence at this life stage.

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8. Baby Steps Millionaire Story: John, Kentucky (108:02–117:49)

• John (28) and wife (30): $1.2M net worth, heavy in real estate, 75% savings rate, both work high-earning blue-collar/tech jobs.
• His “WHY”: Childhood memory of nearly running out of dog food, fueled him to always save and avoid debt.
• Quotes:

  “I tell folks, even if the trade isn’t what you want to do as a career, get into it for an apprenticeship. You’re exposed to so many other careers.” — John (112:25) “Don’t let that scarcity mindset hold you back from the future that you’ve earned right now.” — Ken (117:15)

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9. Closing Reflections: Why Haven’t You Started? — The Sick and Tired Moment (64:57–68:11)

• Ken & Jade discuss the barrier of preferring misery over discomfort until hitting true “enough is enough.”
  • Quote: “We’d rather be miserable than uncomfortable… until we get sick and tired of being sick and tired.” — Ken (65:12)
• Listeners share their own “had it” moments (65:30–66:38).
• Tools: Get Started Assessment, EveryDollar app for personalized money plan.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Much of what you’re gonna struggle with is not gonna be the math. … It’s going to be an emotional fight for you.” — Jade Warshaw [06:43]
• “Boredom is one of the biggest causes of burnout.” — Ken Coleman [41:01]
• “The top three negative emotions: frustration, anger, and fear—the biggest is the fear of the unknown.” — Jade [30:43]
• “Don’t let that scarcity mindset hold you back from the future that you’ve earned right now.” — Ken [117:15]
• “We would rather be miserable than uncomfortable.” — Ken [65:12]
• “You’re walking away with your dignity. And that’s a big deal.” — Ken, to Lily, on leaving an unhealthy non-married partnership [60:27]

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Key Takeaways for Listeners

• Budgeting isn’t just math—it’s an emotional battle. Anticipate the emotions and celebrate progress along the way.
• Burnout isn’t always from doing too much; sometimes it’s from too little challenge or purpose.
• “Emergencies” should be truly urgent, unexpected, and necessary—plan ahead for the rest.
• Define your boundaries with family regarding inheritance and investments. It’s ok to say “no” to risky deals.
• Saving and investing early, even in blue-collar trades, leads to millionaire status—discipline and long-term thinking pay off.
• Discomfort is required for change—you must get fed up to finally choose a new path.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Introduction & Main Theme — 00:13–01:15
• Lars: Gazelle Intensity with Special Needs Family — 01:15–09:01
• Rhonda: Budgeting with Medical Bills & Debt Cycles — 10:32–27:30
• Money & Emotions Discussion — 29:44–31:53
• Caller QA (Parenting, Work Burnout, Credit Cards) — various (33:09–46:02, 68:11–74:21)
• Family, Inheritance & Real Estate Decisions — 88:12–95:12
• Homebuying Strategies (May, Raleigh NC) — 98:36–106:33
• Baby Step Millionaire Interview (John, Kentucky) — 108:02–117:49
• Reflections: Get Sick & Tired to Change — 64:57–68:11

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Summary Tone & Style

Conversational, no-nonsense, practical, and often humorous. Ken and Jade are empathetic but direct, focusing not just on technical financial advice but on the often-messy emotional realities of money decisions.

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For New Listeners

This episode is an excellent primer to the blunt, hope-filled, and actionable coaching style of The Ramsey Show. It demonstrates the integration of budgeting tools, emotional readiness, tough love, and real-life testimonies—all with an underlying insistence that anyone can change, but change requires bold, and sometimes uncomfortable, decisions.

Transcript

[A]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[B]

Normal is broke. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside. 888-82552. Is the phone number 888-25-5225? Your money questions? Jade is ready to go. She stretched beforehand, I'm told.

[C]

I did.

[B]

Got a little energy drink, so she'll help you on those. I'll assist. And then Ramsey just did a new study. Jade. And in my area of things on work, and we're finding that the two biggest areas of problems for folks in the workspace is burnout and a lack of life balance around work.

[C]

Are we going to talk about that today?

[B]

If that is you folks, you can call in and I'll dive in on that. So there you go. Money, the burnout, the life balance issues as it relates to your professional life. They all tie in, by the way.

[C]

I think you need to dive in regardless of anybody calls in.

[B]

We'll take those questions. And let's start with Lars in Eugene, Oregon. Lars, how are you, sir?

[D]

I'm doing well. How are you, Ken?

[B]

Good. How can we help today?

[D]

I'm wondering what Gazelle intensity looks like for me when I have massive debt and okay. Income and pretty. Pretty full family life where I feel very busy.

[B]

Why don't you lay out the debt and then we'll get into the family schedule.

[D]

Yeah. So I'm in 156,000 of debt, vast majority student loans, plus about 4,400 left on a silly van payment.

[C]

Okay, so other than the 4400, is everything else student loans?

[E]

Yes.

[C]

Okay. Okay. Yeah, that feels scary. $152,000, is that right?

[D]

156, yeah. Oh, 52 student loans.

[C]

Yeah. What kind of degree did you get?

[D]

I have a master's in math.

[C]

In math. Okay. What's that allow you to do? You teach at a university level?

[D]

I'm a data analyst.

[C]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

And how long have you been in your current company? One month.

[D]

Oh, good attempt. For a while before that.

[B]

Okay, so this is a new job and I'm guessing a raise with that.

[E]

Yes.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Good.

[D]

Feel rich making 75,000 a year now.

[C]

Okay, and what's your wife do?

[D]

She's a stay at home mom.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

All right. Now let's talk about the.

Because your question is, what does Gazelle intensity look like for me, given all the family stuff. So we got a picture of the debt. What is the family stuff you're talking about? What's the schedule? What is, what is the sense or the reality of what is expected of you from a relational standpoint in the family?

[E]

Sure, yeah.

[D]

So I have two kids, ages three and one and another on the way in March, and the oldest has cerebral palsy, so he's always in different physical therapies and everything. We tried my wife working and doing daycare, but that just wasn't working with all of his needs. So I go work full time and come home and try to help, help.

[B]

Her on, because she's. Describe, Describe how your wife is feeling or how she presents to you after you've been at work all day and she's at home. What's that like when you come in?

[D]

You know, she is incredible. I admire her so much, but she's juggling a lot with just the normal routine and taking care of kids and.

All the doctor and insurance nonsense she deals with. She's. She's pretty scattered by the end of the day.

[B]

That's right. All right, that's where I'm going with this. So tell us what a good routine is. In other words, you know, that she feels seen, loved, supported. Give me what it looks like the rest of the night. So you're coming home, doesn't matter what time, but you come in after normal workday and, and describe very quickly because I'm going somewhere with this, what's happening when you step in or what. What is a healthy activity for you?

[D]

Yeah, so it's usually either wrapping up a nap time and kind of working into. Into dinner time when I get home. So it's usually okay for me to take maybe five or ten minutes to myself to go change and take care of business. And then I, and then I jump in and start trying to help with dinner and, and the work of the evening.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And bedtime for every. Bedtime for Everybody is what.

[D]

7:30?

[B]

I mean, okay, gotcha for the kiddos. And what, what about then? What happens after 7:30?

[D]

Then we go decompress for an hour or two before I go to bed.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

Just watching TV or whatever.

[B]

Well, that's important to know because the reality is is that your income going up will through a side hustle. Right. Or contract work, given your technical skills, certainly could help you get out of debt faster. But realistically, you know, I, I'm not going to spend more time on walking through your weekend schedule. But Jade, where I'm going with this is There is. Where I'm trying to take him is there's a certain amount of time that you may or may not have. All right, so instead of the details, because we want to walk through, I want to get Jade back in here on realistically what the baby steps and the timeline looks like. But before I hand it to her, Lars, here's what you need to hear from me. The reason I walked you through that scenario, that was really for you, not the larger audience. But I want you to realize, okay, what do I really have? Because your wife is in a tough. That's an exhausting situation, and it sounds like you're doing a great job. So what my recommendation would be is what is the block of time? In a normal week, we're not talking about when craziness happens and life throws curve balls at us all. But in a normal week, is there a five hour block? Is there a ten hour block outside of what you just described to me?

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that would have to be after decompressing with the wife, you know, two or three hours, it's going to bed later, maybe getting up earlier, trying to carve some time out on the weekends. I don't know if that's possible. And you don't have to respond to that, but your exercise is how many hours a week.

Could I give to making additional money for the purposes of doing what Jay's gonna walk me through. So that's your homework assignment, But Jay, let's walk him through. Realistic. Like, I'd love for him to walk out here with a timeline when we think he can get out of debt and that'll help him, I think, have a finish line.

[C]

Yeah. I think for me, when I'm listening to you talk, I'm. I'm gonna give you the, the tactical tools and money part of this. But I think I need you to know going in that much of what you're gonna struggle with is not gonna be the math. The math is gonna be tough. And I'm just telling you that ahead of time. But because of what you're up against with the special needs of the children, your wife being stay at home, you having this new job for the first time and feeling the stress and demands of that, navigating that new schedule, there's so much going on that's new, and you have the new baby coming in in March, there are going to be so many opportunities for your emotions to take over. When that new baby comes, you're gonna be tired and you're gonna be overwhelmed. And when you start Crunching the numbers, the frustration is gonna set in when you look at the timeline. And so I just want you to be ahead of the game, just kind of knowing, because half the batt kind of knowing, you know, what we're going to be up against and what we're going to be facing. And so for you, what I would do is simple. I would, on the math side, I would jump into every dollar and I would just complete the roadmap just so you can see, okay, with the money I have in my hand, how long is this going to take? And then I would jump onto the digital coaching side of everydollar because it's literally going to allow you to plug everything about your situation in and it's going to show you here's how much margin you're going to have every single month to thr at this debt. And when you have those real numbers, that is going to help you get a clear picture not only of the timeline, but what it's going to take to accomplish that. Then when you add side hustles to it, of course it's going to go faster. But understand this is going to be an emotional fight for you. So knowing ahead of time, hey, you're going to need to do those daily habits of jumping into every dollar. You and your wife need to set up regular rewards because this is a long journey ahead of you. So sit ahead of time and say, we're when we pay off this debt, every time we pay off x amount of dollars, here's what we're going to do to celebrate because the, the celebration is what's going to keep you going. I wish we had longer to talk.

[B]

But here's what we're going to do. We're going to get you stay on the line. Chris is going to get you into every dollar, our gift. And I'm going to give you Jade's brand new book which addresses what you're going to go through. But no one tells you about money. Hang on.

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All right, we're going to Rhonda next in Phoenix. Rhonda, how can we help today?

[E]

Hi, Dave, thanks for taking my call. I am a mom of three and I'm 36 weeks pregnant with our fourth baby.

My husband makes about 70,000. I left my job earlier this year. That was full time to homeschool our daughter. Our oldest daughter and I still work part time making about 30,000. We are just with the consistent medical expenses, our kids are all under five, so it's been pretty hefty the past five years.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Bless you.

[E]

So we're having a hard time, first of all, keeping up month to month, but let alone getting an emergency fund in place, it seems like it keeps getting wiped out.

With medical expenses or mostly medical expenses.

[C]

Is this the thousand dollars you're trying to save or three to six months you're trying to save the thousand?

[E]

So we're on step one. We'll get out of some debt and then ultimately the kid's health comes first. So if the credit card's available, we'll have to go back to that. We really avoid that. We'll usually use the emergency fund. Obviously, that's what it's for.

[C]

So have you ever been able to get it to a thousand or is it like we get to 300 and it's just gone?

[E]

Yeah, we'll get it to 1000. We sometimes will have more, especially after a tax refund or something, because emergencies don't cost usually 1000. They can be like more.

[C]

So the good news is what you're saying, you're right. Usually they're not thousand dollar emergencies, but they're smaller than that, which means a lot of this. Actually, Rhonda, could be how you're budgeting. And I think that that's the good news. I think that we're gonna be able to fix this.

[B]

Let me jump in for a second because I thought I heard Something. Rhonda, did you say most of your emergencies are more than a thousand?

[E]

Yes, considering that we. There've been births mostly, and. Or medical expenses after the birthday.

[B]

Okay, but I still think where you were going is the same issue.

[C]

Well, yeah, it is.

[B]

We know those births are coming.

[C]

It is the same issue. And I'm glad that you said that. So let's talk about. Not just to you, Rhonda, but for anybody listening who's in your shoes. When we think about an emergency, it has to be. It has to meet criteria to be an emergency. Number one, it's going to be something that's completely unexpected. Like, I had no idea this is coming. I. It's a flat tire on the side of the road. Right. And then it needs to be something that's urgent. Like. Like, if I don't get this done immediately, like today, then we're not eating, like that sort of thing. And then it has to be necessary. I must do this. It's not an option. It's not something that I could not do. Right. And so those three boxes must all be checked. It can't just check one. Ken, great point. All three of them must be checked.

[B]

Hit those again really quick. Big box.

[C]

It's gotta be unexpected, it's gotta be urgent, and it's gotta be necessary. All of those things.

[B]

Really good.

[C]

Okay, so for you, let's talk about birth. Obviously, we know. I mean, we got nine months to plan for it. So that's kind of how that works. Obviously, it's spilt milk, and I'm not making fun of you, but going forward, we know that. And just for anybody listening, when. If you're walking the baby steps, if you're doing any sort of plan for your money, if you know that you're getting pregnant, you need to stop everything and stack up money. And ideally, yeah, you want to get to your deductible kin, because you never know what's going to happen in that delivery room. And usually insurance will pay for everything up to the deductible. It's up to you. And then they'll pay for anything beyond that. So going forward, you have this baby coming up. What is your deductible? Because we can start to plan for that now.

[E]

Yeah, so that's kind of. This is the first time we're budgeting within our birth. So they've all been kind of like, oops, okay, now let's recover. So this is the first time, I think we've been intentional about it. We are actually uninsured. We do have like emergency insurance and we do have like a medical program that we subscribe to to ensure that we have like acute care. But all of our births are out of pocket and up front. So we do home birth. So everything is cash pay and what is. It's five grand per birth and then all labs and stuff like that are additional so there is no deductible. And so if something comes up where we have to ensure that the baby is, you know, like checked for something that might be 250 here. 250. And it kind of just ends up stacking pretty quickly.

[C]

When you've done this before, what's the most amount of money you've gone in.

[E]

With.

Gone into the birth?

[C]

Uh huh. Like how. What's the most you've ever had stacked up to pay for a birth?

[E]

6,500.

[C]

6,500. And then how much over did you go over the 6,500.

[E]

In reality we probably just met that. Once you take on like into consideration if we didn't need to spend on medical expenses that that could be forwarded into a maternity leave cushion. Because I don't get paid a maternity leave.

[C]

What I'm trying to understand. Let me tell you where I'm going with this. What I'm trying to understand is what have you needed in the past that you didn't have that caused you to either a go into debt or pull money that you weren't supposed to be pulling from?

[E]

Just the essentials. And I think it's been poor planning previously. Now it's obviously not that as much.

But a safer home. We were not living in a safe area and then it became like, you know, food, when food got more expensive, that became a little bit harder. And so I, I don't have an extraordinary expense that ends up dropping on us. It's just the key. I think it's a route we're on defense instead of on offense in the process.

[C]

Okay, that is a good self analysis. I'm hearing a couple of things. So A, we're going to continue to save for the baby. Save 7,000 bucks. Are you on track to be able to save that?

[E]

We've paid everything.

Out that needs to be paid. We do not have any cushion right now. I'm selling a bunch of stuff around the house for that cushion.

[B]

Good.

[C]

And what is it?

[E]

Extra hours?

[C]

What's it take to operate your normal monthly budget aside from the birth? Just keep everything running, keep lights on, keep rent, all of that stuff. What's that cost?

[E]

7K.

[C]

7K?

[B]

Does that include the debt payments.

[E]

That does include debt.

[B]

It does.

[E]

It does include debt.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. So there's your minimum payments on debt. So 7k.

[C]

If you came into the month of delivery and you had the money you need for operating cost and then you had the 7k that you need for the birth or you've already shelled it out or however it works, tell me then what the issue would be. Are you telling me, hey, Jade, what we really need is in the past We've done 7K, but probably what we really need is closer to 9K. Is that what you're telling me?

[E]

No, I think our birth is covered. I know our bills are covered for this month. I think where we're at and where we're nervous is we've been so back and forth in the hole, back out of the hole, in the hole, out the hole.

[C]

Right.

[E]

That moving into this process, we have four weeks left until the baby comes, and then we're going to have a few weeks where I can't make income. And we don't want to be back in that hole. So we're trying to not be on the defense. I mean, it's kind of late, right? So we are still, but we're trying to be more ahead of it so that we end up.

[C]

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Tell me how you're late. If you told me that you've paid for all the costs of the birth. That's what I'm getting at it. Because this, this has got to be a simple equation. It's. We either feel like we have enough money or we don't have enough money. So if you're telling me, hey, we've paid for the birth, but you also, in a previous sentence, said, but other little things pop up. My first thing, Ken, is, well, if we've usually saved six or seven, let's save. Let's try to get that number higher.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So let me, let me dive in. RHONDA J. Right. But very simply and practically, do you have enough income that if you were budgeting properly, you guys would be okay? Yes or no?

[E]

I think we probably need to reevaluate our budget somehow. I don't see where the margin can come from, but we don't have margin.

[D]

And that's the problem.

[B]

All right, so that's good. So second question. And we're going to give you one session with the financial coach as our baby gift to you because we're not going to be able to go into the nitty gritty. But I think they, you, they will help you get the answer to that question. All right. But secondly, we don't have time to run through all of your debts, but if you can move a car, is there a car in this $180,000 worth of debt?

[C]

Right.

[E]

Yes. My car is a newer car that we purchased because all of our car seats can't fit in my previous car. And we do need some way to transport the kids.

[C]

What'd you spend on that car? What'd you spend on that new car?

[E]

We have it looped into a subsidized loan. The subsidized loan is $33,000. I would say 20,000 of that is a personal loan.

So my previous car was a subsidized personal loan kind of put together with our. And so then when we bought the new car, the new car cost absorbed that subsidized loan.

[B]

Okay, I'll tell you what we're going to do. We're actually going to do a little deeper dive on this. So we're going to hold you over. Got to do a little radio commercial, but we're going to hang on to you. So hold on. We're going to dive in this and we're going to show you how you guys dig out of this. This is not as difficult as you.

[A]

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[C]

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[B]

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All right, so we're talking to Rhonda in Phoenix. And Rhonda, I want to bring you back in here. Okay, so we got to get tactical really quick. Yes, we, Jade, take over here. But we just, all we're looking for, Rhonda, is numbers in your debt. All right, we want to go smallest to largest. Lay those out for Jade.

[C]

So I need two things. Rhonda, you told me your husband's making 70,000 a year. So are you taking home about 4800 somewhere around there from him?

[E]

Yes.

[C]

And then what's your part time pay right now? What do you take?

[E]

I'm about 22 to 25. Dependent contractor. So changes.

[C]

So as it is. Yeah, you guys, you said it takes $7,000 to make your budget as it is, you're like squeaking by. So when you stop working, I'm seeing that you're going to have, yeah, a deficit of around 20, 200, 21, 23. Somewhere there feel right.

[E]

Right.

[C]

Okay, so that's what we're concerned about. So the debt, we can talk about the debt and we're going to give you a plan for that. But I want you to, I just want to front load that by saying that's not your concern until after the baby is born. Right now the concern is saying, okay, we're going to have a $2,100 deficit come March. And we think that that's going to last for X amount of number of months, right?

[E]

Yes.

[C]

So how many months do you think that that deficit is going to go on, that you won't be working?

[E]

I only plan to take like max four weeks off because of this. Like, okay, have the debt for that long.

[C]

Okay. So I want to err on the side of caution and say if you plan on four, let's plan on eight. Right. Let's, let's double it because you never know. So that means we've got to find an extra $4,300 somewhere to kind of bridge that gap. Does that feel right?

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, so now we have a clear goal. We need to find $4,300. That money is to bridge the gap. Now how do we find the money for you? You're very, very pregnant, but for your husband, this is a lot of extra time working. This is, I'm picking up whatever side hustle I can. I heard you say earlier that you were selling things. Keep doing that. Now let's turn over and look at the debt because there Might be some quick wins there that will help us. Ken, the car.

[B]

Yeah. So the car. The car that you had to have because of the car seats, how much did you pay for it.

On the lot?

[E]

It was a used, so we got it for 10. It's an SUV, but with the loan, it came out to 33.

[C]

How did that happen? How'd you go from 10 to 33 on one car if the sticker price was 10?

[E]

Right. Our previous car, we still owed on. So I think we owed about four grand. And then we took out a $15,000 loan, so owed with interest when it rolled over to be on top of the other car. It just added that.

[C]

Oh, Lord, no, I'm missing one. The car was 10. You had 4,000 in negative equity still, that's 14. How did you get to where the other 15 come from?

[E]

Sorry. My first car, we owed four grand.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

We needed money, so we got a subsidized loan, and the item that we used was that car that was not paid off. They absorbed that first car. $4,000 remaining.

[B]

It actually doesn't matter. You have a 33,000 DOL loan on a $10,000 car, which kills my entire coaching because it was like, we thought.

[C]

We were going to get you out of that car.

[B]

I was like, go get you a $10,000 van. And you did.

[C]

Yeah. All right, so what else do you have? Anything?

[B]

My stomach hurts.

[E]

My husband is a teacher, so he'll have about two or three weeks off during the holiday break, and he's already agreed to pick up, like, a temporary position delivering packages to try and offset.

[C]

Okay, great. Okay. So what's. Do you know what that's going to earn?

[E]

We're hoping somewhere between two and three.

[C]

Okay, so you're partially to your goal because he's going to continue to get his salary through the break, Correct?

[E]

Right, Correct.

[C]

Okay, so that's great. You're partially to your goal. Now. That's the. That's just the. Making the budget work. Extra money. Do you need. Do we need to add that extra money to that for the birth and be. Be realistic here?

[E]

Yeah, I don't believe so. We don't. We haven't in the past, by the grace of God, had anything that comes up after birth.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

Healthy. The baby's healthy. So I'm anticipating that happens. If it does not happen, then that will be a different conversation, and that's.

[C]

What I would do. Rhonda, I. There is like, we. It's not always sunny and 70. Right. So let's plan for the what if scenario. So we're ready, let's start looking and saying, well, well, what would it cost if I ended up having to go from my home into the emergency room? What would it cost if I ended up having the baby needed to, you know, a NICU for a little like let's do a little bit of research and dial down. It's not, we're not trying to do a self fulfilling prophecy. We're just getting information so we can prep. I think doing that is going to give you a lot of peace. And those are your two main focuses. Your husband to clear that gap by working and you to provide insight on the numbers for him.

[B]

And I would just say this. And, and by the way, hang on. We're going to take care of, we're going to give you a baby gift of a coaching session with financial coach. And also I want to give away Jade's book. What no one tells you about money.

[C]

Yeah. Do.

[B]

Last thing I'm going to say is your husband isn't just doing this during Christmas break in order to get out of this hole.

[C]

Good. Ken.

[B]

He's going to have to work 60, 70 hours a week for a while. And I hate that.

[C]

And let me just.

[B]

But I'm just going to tell you, you guys need more income, especially on this car problem because we can't get rid of the car.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So we're going to have to just dig, dig, dig. And it's going to take a while, but you can do it. So.

[C]

And what I like about this conversation is you, you hear the habit. Talk about hot mind, cold mind.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

You're doing this in a cold mind right now, which is you're not deep in the emotions. You're on the outside of it and you're making clear decisions. Let me tell you, Kim, when that baby hits. Yeah. All of a sudden that what you've said about side hustling and paying off the debt, that's going to want to fly out the window. So please remember this call, write it down, put it in a frame, put it on the refrigerator because when that baby hits, you're going to want to go the opposite direction. But you made a decision today in the right frame of mind to, to do the right thing. And that's what's going to keep you solid. When these baby emotions got to tee.

[B]

You up on this emotional issue, what is the key to getting out of this emotionally?

[C]

I think what we just talked about, which is knowing it's coming and trying to make those decisions ahead of time. But Also understanding. Okay, what season am I entering into?

[B]

Yeah, a whole lot of just awfulness.

[C]

Yeah. Because you know that stuff, it runs in the background of our lives without us being having the time to really get into it. And so knowing it's there is a big help.

[B]

All right. So that is just one of the reasons. Those of you who are just stuck in an emotional place and it's tough. That's why you gotta order. Jade's new book comes out first of the year. What no one tells you about money. You can pre order it right now for 24.99. Get over $100 in free bonus items. Ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store what is somebody going to get out of this book?

[C]

It's the check engine light for your money.

[D]

Oh.

[C]

When you get in your car and you see the check engine light, Ken, what do you do? You take it to the, the mechanic and they run. Greg, they run that diagnostic.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And they give you the little code and tell you what's wrong. This is what that book does. It is going to run a diagnostic on you emotionally and it's going to find out what's going wrong, what's been making things not run right for you, and then it's going to give you the code to fix it. And it's going to take you step by step to what you need to do. So it's a diagnostic and you need that because you've been stuck and you haven't known why. And let me help you discover why so we can fix it.

[B]

What do you think.

Are top two or three? Yeah, I love a top five list. Okay, we don't have time for top five, so I'm going to put you on the spot. Top three emotions, negative emotions that our audience is facing in trying to get out of debt.

[C]

I'm going to say frustration because. Okay. With the baby steps, there's a lot of nuance and it's a lot to remember. It's a lot to think through.

[B]

Even though it sounds simple like that.

[C]

I'm gonna go with anger because of so many outside forces that are affecting our money, whether it be inflation, the housing market administrations, the cost of insurance, all of those things that we didn't do, they're not our fault, but yet they're sitting here affecting our money. And then after that, I would say fear. When people choose to walk the baby steps, there is a fear of the unknown. They, they're not sure. If I really sacrif of this, is it going to be worth it on the other side, they don't know. And so there's that first initial step of faith, that kind of leap that you have to take. And a lot of people are afraid to take it.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I, I think there's so many types of fear.

[C]

Oh, and I talk about so many of them.

[B]

You nailed the fear of the unknown. I think it's the biggest in any of our life. But, you know, sometimes it's just as simple as if you've heard Dave, if you hear one of us. But it's Dave, the one that just gets, he just gets fierce and he starts going. You don't see the inside of a restaurant. Rice and beans, beans and rice. And some people are like, I'm just afraid to dial my life back like that. There's a real fear to that. Like, what are my kids gonna say? What are my spouse gonna say? You know, and the idea of change, radical change is fearful. So, hey, we hear you. We've done it. We're here for you. So we know what you're walking through. We're gonna walk through it with you.

[A]

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[B]

All right, the Ramsey show question of the day is sponsored by Y Refi. You can't change the past, but you can change your next move. And why Refi is helps people with defaulted private student Loans refinance to a payment that fits their budget. If this is you, visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's yre f y.com Ramsey it's not available in all states.

[C]

Alrighty then. Today's question comes from Kate in Utah. She says, My 15 year old daughter recently started babysitting which has been a great first job for her. If she wants to buy something like concert tickets, she has to pay for it. This has really helped her with budgeting and being responsible. In addition to what she earns, we provide her with spending money. Should we be putting that money into her bank account as an allowance or should this be something she earns once a task is completed? Also, should we have her keep a set amount of minimum balance in her savings? Okay, so there's a couple of questions in here. We're talking about do we want allowance versus like paid wages? Basically like paid, you know, you get a wage for a service kind of thing. And do we kind of regulate how much she needs to have in her account at all times? So I really am, I love the idea of people working for money because that's the way it works in the real world. Ken. And part of this is experience for me too. I, I never grew up on allowance and so I don't even know what that is. But I do know what it means to do a job and get paid for it. And I think there's a certain of not only reality to that, but dignity to that. And I mimic that at home with my kids, they unload the dishwasher. With my kids there are certain chores that they do. That is just you being a citizen in this household. You don't get paid for it. It's just you being a good citizen. Those are things like making up your bed, keeping your room clean, that kind of thing. Then there are chores that you do that you get paid for. And so that's how they earn their money. Or maybe some people would call it allowance. So I would implement something like that. There needs to be chores that she does in the house that are just shooing. But then there's other things that she can get paid for. And when it comes to what you are telling her she needs to keep in her savings, I would do, I would just teach give safe spend. So whatever you have, you can give some of it, you can save a portion of it and you can spend a portion of it and you guys can decide what that portion is.

[B]

Yeah. The only thing I would add to this and I don't know if this is going to be controversial, but do it, Ken. Come on, Dad, I really don't care.

I think you teach all of that. And I have, but I got one kid and Jade knows all three of my kids. Well, I got one kid who is, he's saving.

[C]

Boy, he ain't letting go of that catch.

[B]

Dude's got thousands, okay? From every, every financial gift, little odd job he's ever had. I got two other kids that don't have any money.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I've taught them. Them, I've taught them till I'm blue in the face. And guess who doesn't have a blue face today? Me.

[C]

Well, you don't, you can't make them.

[B]

That's what I would say. So teach them. And then I think that life is the best teacher. And so I've got one kid that just at some point is going to get tired of being broke. And then the old man's a genius. So I think as parents go, I think sometimes we, we do a little too much teacher. More importantly, model.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So they say, this is what mom and I do or this is what your father and I do. This is what I think you should do. And here's why. And then let it go.

[C]

Let it go.

[B]

And just. Cause I'm telling you something, you gotta learn it. And it's not like teaching them to ride a bike per se. It has some parallels.

[C]

You can hold, you can keep your hands on that.

[B]

At some point you gotta let go of it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then when they fall down and skin their knees, they start to learn to ride the bike. And so they need to be broke. I mean, so broke it hurts.

[C]

Can I tell you?

[B]

So there you go. I.

[C]

And you've got older kids, that's what you've got.

[B]

20. Run the 20, 18 and 17.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

My kids, they're in it right now and they need spending money.

[C]

Yeah. Cuz they got gas and games and dates and they got all the things. Can I tell you about my 7 year old?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

All right, so I told you, the kids, they get some money that for doing things like unloading the dishwasher. And we were trying to teach my son, if you want something, you have to save up your money for it. And that takes time. So we finally, we were finally able to get him to save up his money. He wanted a fish tank to buy a goldfish and so he finally saved up the $22. We went this weekend.

[B]

That's awesome.

[C]

Got him the, he got the tank, the little pineapple that goes in it. Two Goldfish, don't you know. The next morning, one of them was dead, of course. And I was like, I felt so bad because he saved up his money. I mean, the.

[B]

Can we not have a cheaper fish that has a longer life expectancy for all of us? All of the kids of the world were breaking their hearts. I not a fish that's a little more durable. It's a 50, 50 proposition. Every morning you wake up, you're stressed out.

[C]

I hope the second one hangs on. That's all I hope.

[B]

Don't hold your breath. Promise you he's not. Oh, man. We'll be here all day with the. We'll be here all day with the parent jokes. Matthew's up in Gainesville, Florida. Matthew, how can we help?

[E]

Hi, I was wondering, should I stick with the trade I'm in H Vac.

[D]

Or should I switch to another trade like welding or building automation to make.

[E]

More money and do something more fulfilling?

[B]

Oh, I think you might have just answered your question. Am I to understand that the. You're in H Vac and if you were going to welding, you perceive that to be more enjoyable, more fulfilling, and it's certainly you know for a fact you can get paid more.

[E]

Yes and no.

[D]

I can make about the film. It's mainly the company I'm at, but I have a difficulty trying to go to another company due to experience.

[B]

Okay, so two things. One, I want you to adjust your phone. You sound like you're inside of a sock, you know? Okay, so talk to me. Talk back to me.

It's only slightly better. I'm having a hard time understanding you, but we'll keep going. Okay, so I asked you. So you presented a question. Okay, I want to hit you with the facts. You said, do I leave my trade of H Vac and go into welding in order to make more money, be more fulfilled? I repeated it back to you and your reply was, well, it'll be about the same amount of money. And really it's just the company I'm at. So it sounds like you're presenting something different. Do you hear what I'm hearing?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[B]

So I wonder if. If I were to wave my pencil in the air as if it were magical and I'm doing right here on camera, Matthew, you can't see it. And I were to remove all of the bad stuff at this current company, would you be on the phone with me right now asking this question? Yes or no, sir? Huh? No.

[D]

No, sir, I would not.

[B]

So it's not the trade.

True or false?

[E]

Correct.

[B]

It's the place. True or false?

[E]

Correct.

[B]

All right, give me something specific. What is. What is really bothering you?

[D]

I do about two hours of work, and then I sit on my phone the rest of the day just to get my hours so I can have money and pay bills.

[B]

Okay, Now, Matthew, I am so glad you called today because I think there are literally millions of people that are going to hear this. And, folks, I want to make sure you hear what Matthew just said. Matthew is feeling burned out. True or false, Matthew?

[E]

True.

[B]

And Matthew is feeling burned out. Not because he's working too hard. He's not working enough, Jade. He's bored. So I want to call this out real quick, and we'll move on, but I want this massive audience to hear what very few people will tell you that boredom is one of the biggest causes of burnout. Human beings are wired. We are created by our creator to work, to progress, to overcome challenges. It is in our soul. So I just want to put that out there. And many of you are looking for a solve that you don't need to look for and you need to look inward and go, I'm bored out of my skull, and as a result, my soul is slowly seeping from my body. So just a real quick, quick sermon there. We won't take an offering, but I just want to make sure that you're paying attention to what Matthew's paying attention. So, Matthew, here's the fix. I'm not against you, nor would I tell you not to move into welding, because to me, as long as you as welding is creating a unique challenge. In other words, you've got the skill to do it. But it also is interesting, and it's enough of a challenge that you have to apply yourself and you're actually working all day. Then, yes, move into welding. However, if you can find another H Vac company that actually works you during the day, doesn't overwork you, then that's the simple fix. So we won't. We don't want to run away from something. I want to run to something. And in this case, I don't think the something is another trade. I think it's a different company, and I'm going to stick with that. So, hey, thanks for being honest. And you can fix this real easy. Go somewhere where you can work. My man.

[C]

Hey, y', all, you know I'm all about keeping your budget in check, especially during the holidays.

[B]

And that's why I always start my grocery shopping during the holidays at at Aldi.

[C]

From fresh produce to holiday favorites and Charcuterie boards for parties.

[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[C]

Find a store near you@ Aldi US.

[B]

That'S Aldi US savings. Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union in studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to be with you. Let's go to Christopher in Denver, Colorado. Christopher, how can we help?

[D]

Yeah, Merry Christmas to both of you. Thank you for taking the call.

[B]

Thank you. And Merry Christmas to you.

[D]

Yeah, so my wife and I, we have a daughter that's three years old and a son that's nine months old. And the day my son was born, my father in law tragically passed away, unfortunately.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[D]

And, you know, the grief and trauma that's come along with that has led to many challenges for my immediate family. And you know, in, in his will, he had, he had essentially said, you know, real estate's the best investment and I would really prefer you to hold on to my home and use it as a rental property. Well, due to the grief that's been caused by this, you know, my wife consequently lost her job and, you know, that, that $90,000 deficit is, you know, pretty substantial.

So I'm, I have a financial and moral dilemma on my hands. And on one hand, I'd really like to.

You know, obey his wishes, and on the other hand, you know, I have a family to look after and.

[B]

Okay, let me, let me jump in for a second because I think we got to dig into some stuff.

Your father in law died three years ago, is that right?

[D]

No, nine months this year in March.

[B]

Oh, nine months. I wrote nine years old. Sorry. So nine months. So nine months ago your father in law died.

[E]

Correct.

[B]

And the grief from that led to your wife losing her job.

[D]

Can I ask, she was let go from her job.

[B]

What can I ask, is there some type of unique circumstance on that?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, it was, you know, without getting into too much detail, self inflicted, you know.

[B]

Okay, gotcha. All right. And so very, very traumatic to the point where she's not able to function at work.

[D]

Certainly. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

And how much was she making?

[D]

She was making 90,000. And how much do you make before taxes and bonuses? I make 120.

[B]

Okay. And now let's move into. So what are the financial challenges? I'm assuming it's debt.

[D]

Unfortunately, no. We've worked very hard to get out of debt, and that's kind of the reason why I'm.

[B]

So you have no debt?

[D]

Correct.

[B]

All right, I'm gonna walk you through this. So you have no debt. Do you have an emergency fund?

[D]

I have had to drain it to 1. Take care of my. Welcoming our new son to taking care of the property. That's in Texas, I should add. We're in Denver and this is in Texas.

[C]

Okay, good job.

[B]

Do you have siblings that are also in the will on this property, or is it just you?

[D]

It is just my wife, so.

[B]

That's right, your wife. So what's the property worth if you were to sell it?

[D]

Yeah, you know, I've gotten. My real estate agent says about 325. If we were to put, you know, X, Y and Z into the home without putting in the upgrades into the home, we're probably looking at just south of 300 and how much.

[B]

Okay, so what would you. Would your wife walk away with if we sold it as is?

[D]

Let me get that number for you. We're looking at about, you know, at 325. 300. 3,000 without. We're looking at about 278,000.

[B]

So you guys would walk away with 278K. Okay. What happened with the birth of your child to where it drained your entire emergency fund?

[D]

That was not the part that drained it. Fortunately, it was hiring movers, getting us physically down there to go through the home. You know, it's not. It's not my home.

[C]

So I understand.

[D]

So, you know, I have to be very sensitive to my wife and allow her to, you know, take the time to go through his belongings. You know, all of his home is basically in my home.

[B]

How much was in your garage? How much was in your emergency fund?

[D]

25,000.

[B]

You drained it.

[C]

Holy smokes.

[D]

Well, we have about 4,000 remaining, but the repairs on the home would cost us upwards of 23,000.

[B]

All right, so let.

[C]

Let me cut through for a second. So I. It sounded like. It sounds like. And I think I'm right. Obviously you're thinking, hey, we're feeling a $90,000 deficit year over year. If I can get my hands on some of this money, I can invest it and kind of make up that loss. That way she can take the time that she needs and it's not going to continue to have such a drain on us. Right?

[D]

Almost. But my. What I would like to do is we purchased our home in 2022. Our interest rate is 7.125%. 7.125%.

[E]

Excuse me.

[D]

And you know, it's my opinion that by refinancing, you know, we can substantially lower our mortgage about $2,100.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

On the, on the flip side of that, you know, after speaking to property managers in the area, it's expected that we could get roughly 2,200 in rent for the property. And that's before fees, taxes, et cetera.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Your father in law's property.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

So here, here, let me just, let me tell you what I'm thinking. I'm gonna be 100% honest with you. I don't think this is your decision to make a loan in a vacuum. Number one. And if this loss has been what it has been, my guess is that she's might not be down to ride on this just yet.

[B]

Is she? Where is she at?

[C]

Well, let me, let me finish, let me finish the loop here. Here. And then the final thing is if you do sell this property, and because I want to say this on the front end, the only reason that I would say to do this right now is simply because of the location. I'm not it. For me, it's not a financial thing of like, we have to recoup this money. Doing a bunch of math. For me, it's more like, hey, you can't really manage this.

From where you are in Denver. And we've seen that you've already shelled out far more money than you need to, going back and forth and whatnot. And we would tell nobody to be a long term landlord in that way. So that if, if you sell it, that would be my reason why. And I would say, how can we sell this? Is, is the mother in law alive? Who do we need to talk to to make this feel right? But it would not be for the reasons that you're saying. So I just want to put that out there because it feels.

[D]

I, I appreciate your opinion. I, I do. And fortunately, you know, I completely agree with you. This is my wife's decision for, you know, the, the reality is, you know, I'm the finance guy of the home.

[A]

Right?

[C]

Yeah. And I hear that. I can hear it in your numbers.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

And.

You know, she is.

We're doing everything that we can to keep this property because I do want to honor those wishes.

[B]

Okay, so let's, so there's. So that's what we need to be focusing on. It feels like you called in and Said, should we sell it? But in. Your wife is saying, I don't want to sell it. Is that true?

[C]

True.

[B]

No.

[D]

She wants to do what's best for us.

[B]

What do you think is best? I would sell it.

[C]

I would sell it.

[B]

I would sell it because of what she said. What Jay just said is that it's a. It's a burden for you guys. You've already blown a ton of a bunch of money. I'd sell it as is and. And inve. Invest that money. Build your emergency fund back up and invest it, and let's do something good with it. Let's walk the baby steps out with whatever money comes in.

[C]

Or if you really did feel like. Like, I think the way you framed it earlier was why he wanted you to keep it was because real estate for him was. Was the best investment. So in my mind, and this is just. I'm spitballing. I'm not saying you must do this, but if I sold it, what feels like would be keeping with his spirit or with something that he wanted the money to be used on would be maybe, okay, maybe you do buy an investment property. Maybe you pay off your mortgage because that's a property, and that now that's another asset.

[B]

That's what I'm.

[C]

See what I'm saying? So roll it back into real estate estate, whether it be yours or, you know, whatever that is. And that way, you're keeping the memory alive, you're keeping his values alive, but you're also doing the right thing for your family.

[B]

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All right, Lily is up next in Kansas City. Lily, how can we help?

[A]

Hi.

[E]

I have been with my partner for four years.

[B]

Wow, Lily, you just broke up really bad, so we didn't hear that part. We just heard you were with your partner, and then it went into, like, some ghost sound.

[C]

Haunted.

[E]

Sorry.

[C]

About that.

[E]

Can you hear me now?

[B]

Really clear. Okay, so start that whole thing over.

[E]

Okay. I've been with my partner for four years.

[D]

Okay?

[E]

I moved out here. We live in a rural area outside of Kansas City, and found out this year that he does not want to get married.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

Which is a problem for me because I've been investing into his household and into this property for the last four years.

[B]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Tell us what that means specifically. How much have you invested?

[E]

So he owns his own home and he has. He bought the house in 2012 at an interest rate of like, 3%. Crazy low.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

And he should have this paid off in about seven years. And when I say investing, I mean I have been. I pay for things living here.

[B]

I know. I'm asking for how much? And like, what, a kitchen, a bathroom? What? Give us specifics.

[E]

I apologize. It's not that. Not that deep.

I pay for things in this household. The only way he will let me pay for things is if I buy groceries. Pay for, like, our bedding, household items.

[B]

Well, that's not investing. Okay? I'm tracking now. But that's not investing in the house.

[E]

It's not investing in the house. But here's my problem. Here's the dilemma. When he told me he wouldn't marry me, he set up a revocable trust.

[C]

And.

[E]

Leaving everything to me. You know, when he passes away, my problem is, is that I'm living paycheck to paycheck, buying the things that I'm buying for the house. And he pays the mortgage, pays the bills, and won't let me be a true partner.

[B]

Hold on, Lily. I feel like we're focusing on the wrong thing.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Her blame Jade. I'll get out of your way because your brain's about to explode. Revocable trust. But, Lily, I'm just going to speak to the relationship side. Okay, here's what I just heard. I moved out here four years ago to be with this guy. He doesn't want to marry me. And he made it very clear. But as a consolation prize, he created an irrevocable trust. Jade will get to that in a second. I don't. That, to me, is just weird.

[C]

It's so weird.

[B]

But then you kept. Then you went. But he won't let me pay for things, and he won't let me.

[C]

Why are you still charging?

[B]

Why are you even in the house? This relationship is over.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Right.

[E]

I mean, yeah, in my mind. The trust is revocable, by the way. Not irrevocable.

[C]

Sorry, doesn't matter and tell him. Never mind. Because if you don't want to marry me, why would you leave all your stuff to me?

[B]

To me. That's just a weird thing. It proves this guy's a weirdo. And I'm not trying to be unkind, and I'm not trying to be insensitive, but you called us, so we're automatically on team Lily.

[C]

Let me just tell you that for.

[B]

The guy doesn't want to marry me.

[C]

It's very manipulative, too, because it's this way of keeping you on the hook forever.

[B]

Exactly that.

[C]

Without marrying you, why would you say, I won't marry you, but I'm going to leave you after I die. All of my major assets.

[B]

I'm going tell you what this is. I'm going to tell you what it is. This is friends with benefits. And the benefit is he. He wants you, but he don't want to marry you.

[C]

This is sleeping with the enemy, remember?

[B]

Now he's going to give you his whatever just so that you.

[C]

That's weird.

[B]

This guy does not want to be married to you in a union with you. No, but he wants benef that come with this. And it would make me feel gross. I feel gross for you.

[E]

It does. And even being part of the revocable trust, it feels like vacated.

[B]

Say no and break up with. Break up with him and leave.

[C]

When did this start, Lily? When did you find out he doesn't want to marry you? And when did he tell you about this weird trust thing?

[B]

Oh, boy.

[E]

This year. Early this year. And he set up the trust about two months later because I told him that it. I didn't. He says he feels like he doesn't want to get married because the government gives the government too much power over his.

[C]

I need him to stop bull crap.

[B]

This guy's such a bad liar.

[C]

So let me tell you, when he told. When you said, why aren't we getting married? And he said, I don't want to marry you, did you give him some. What I want to know is did you give him some sort sort of ultimatum? Did you tell him he was. You were leaving and then this was the response to that?

[E]

That is correct.

[B]

You did, yes. Well, why are you still with him?

[E]

Because he created the revocable trust.

[C]

Exactly. In that moment, you let it work.

[B]

You didn't give him an ultimatum and do anything about it. You threatened. And then he went, I see your threat and I raise you, and I'm gonna raise you. Some manipulation.

[C]

And you said that.

[B]

I know. I'm Right. I've been right for about three or four minutes into this call, and I'm.

[E]

Gonna need to hear it from someone that was unobjective.

[D]

Lilly sense.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Break up with him. If you were my sister, I would be like, you have no respect for yourself if you stay in this relationship.

[C]

And I agree with Ken. And now let me just hit on just a personal note. You as a human being, there is a sunk cost here. Right. You're like, man, I love this guy. I spent four years. Four years is a long time. And you got up and you moved to be with this person. There is a lot there. And I understand that you're probably like, like, can I salvage some of this? Because if I can't salvage this, then I. You have to come to terms with whatever that means to you about you. Like, I can't believe I fell for this guy. Or I can't believe. Right. And that's very, very difficult to do. And my guess is that's probably why, even though he said he wouldn't marry you, you continued on up until the point of this call is there was some part of you that probably was like, maybe there's something here I can salvage. Maybe there's still a chance. Chance that this could turn around. And I totally get that. And Ken and I are not making fun of you or knocking you. We are 100 trying to validate you.

[B]

Good.

[E]

It's hard to walk away from a household that I've put so much time and energy into because now I walk away with nothing.

[C]

Well, you had an expectation of what that was going to mean. Well, she had an expectation of what that would bring.

[B]

I know, but I'm going to tell you why I disagree. And this is Team Lily. Lily, that's the wrong thing to say. You've been telling yourself I'm walking away with nothing. I'm going to tell you you're walking away with something, and it's your dignity.

[C]

That's facts.

[B]

Come on.

[C]

That's facts.

[B]

You got to know. You got to rewire this message. The narrative is, I'm not going to let this guy manipulate me and rob me of my dignity. I'm walking away with my dignity intact, and that's a big deal. And I'm going to make my life better, and I'm going to focus on getting myself to a place where I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, and I'm going to get myself healthy and deal with what J. Is saying. And she's real here. I mean, this Hurts. I'm not minimizing this. This really stinks. But there is healing on the other side of this. And I think there's love. Real love.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

On the other side of this.

[C]

Because here's the thing. And. And I. I'm not poo pooing any. Anybody's journey.

[A]

Ken, sometimes we have to poo poo.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm just saying, when. When the real man comes, Lily, he's going to know. And it ain't going to take me four years to figure it out. I'm gonna tell you that right now.

[B]

That's true. And you'll know.

[C]

Know.

[B]

And, Lily, since we're playing armchair quarterback here, it's the nature of our job, all right? We're not going to focus on the past. We're going to set our mind on the things of the future, and we're going to heal and we're going to move forward. Okay? However, for Lily and all of the other people listening or watching, please don't uproot your life and move to someplace for somebody who's not willing to change their life for you.

[C]

Thank you, Ken.

[B]

Let me say it again. Again. Do not uproot your life for somebody who's not willing to change their life.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

If they change their life in that they say we are all in and getting married, then I will uproot. But I got to tell you, a lot of manipulative dudes out there. I'll just leave it at that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So, Lily, get out of there. What do you. Let's. Let's just. We got. We got about a minute, so real quick answer.

Would you have moved to Kansas City for any other reason than this guy?

[D]

No.

[B]

No. Okay, so here's.

[E]

Absolutely not.

[B]

Okay, so here's the deal. Here's what. And I know there's a lot, so I'm not going to ask you anything else because I think you got to grieve this. But I would tell you that the reason I asked you that is I want that to be the resounding thing you take away from this call. You only move there for this guy. You know, this guy is not your guy. So now let's begin the mindset of where do I want to restart my life? And this can exciting, it can be healthy, Dare I say, it can be full of fun, adventure. But it starts with going, nope, I don't want the trust. I don't want you. I'm out. Jade, final word.

[C]

Yes. Men and women, let's stop putting ourselves in these positions where There is this power, indifference. Especially when it's not a marriage. This business of moving in with somebody and it's their place and they hold all the cards. Cards. And you're kind of at their mercy. For them to let you in, this business needs to stop. Live at your own house. There's nothing wrong with living at your own house and dating someone. And at the end of the day, you go home to your house that you own by yourself until you're married.

[B]

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All right, if you're listening to the show and you want to be better with your money, but you haven't started, the question is, why haven't you started doing something about it? You know, there's a problem, but why haven't you started doing it? It's a big question.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And I think that, you know, I've said this for years, Jay, that we humans, I being at the top of the list, we would rather be miserable than uncomfortable. Ooh, right. Yeah, just think about that. Because we kind of know the miserable, and we're talking about financial misery here in this particular situation. That's right.

[E]

And.

[B]

And. And so the Davis said this too. It's like people finally change where they go, oh, I actually am sick and tired of being sick and tired. In other words, I now would rather be uncomfortable than be miserable. Here's one example from some of our Ramsey Baby Step Facebook community. Folks, this is Shea. When I Got sick and tired of giving my hard earned money to paying credit card interest. I felt like I was paying twice for all the items I was purchasing. I was fed up with rising interest rates and playing the games of shuffling all my debts to 0% interest cards and not getting ahead.

[C]

I love that one. Julia said. When I realized how much money we actually take home in a month and are still living paychecks to paycheck, it was ridiculous. Never again. Wow.

[B]

All right, and how about this one? Joseph said 1,000%. The moment was when we had our daughter, our first child and my buddy who makes half of what we make is able to have his wife stay at home with their kid where we can't afford to. Now that's the ouch moment. Like that's where you're like, something's really wrong.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

So really unbelievable. We've got a link in the show [e-mail] start and this is where you can take. It's free. Takes just a few moments. It's called the get started assessment and it'll allow you to get a real nice snapshot of where you are and a customized money plan that will allow you to say, oh, I can make a difference. Again ramseysolutions.com start and send us your comment. Those of you that have had that I've had it moment. Have you had me?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh yeah, for sure. I think it, for me it was of course this is so long ago. I gotta like, I gotta like dig it up, go back into it. But the, the moment for us was we were two, two incomes, double income, no kids and the debt that we had accumulated trying to get started in our life. We were like absolutely struggling. We had stuff but we were miserable because we weren't, we were, we were living paycheck to paycheck and we weren't actually we were living more than the paycheck. And I think for me it scared me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So my, I had, it was, ooh, I don't like this feeling.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No control over my financial life. And the control issue, actually that was the issue. But anyway, we'd love to hear your comments of your sick and tired moments. Ramsaysolutions.com start got a link in the show notes for the assessment and again it's a wonderful little tool. So go check that out. Boise, Idaho is where we go next and Evan is joining us there. Evan, how can we help?

[D]

Hey there. I got a question for you about credit card cash back.

[C]

Hit me.

[D]

I know of course you guys opinions on that, but I have, I think, a unique, unique situation here.

[B]

It is. Evan believes, folks, that he's got a scenario that we have not heard before. This is breaking news. Evan, take it away. What is the loophole?

[D]

All right, so I own a business where I buy and sell used camera equipment. Now, with the volume that I'm doing, I'm making about $3,000 a month in just cash back. It's never. All the money is always backed by cash in a high yield savings account. Pay it off all immediately as soon as the payments post, and then just, just reap the rewards.

[B]

Never heard that. We have never heard that put that way before.

[C]

How much is in your high yield?

[B]

I'm kidding.

[D]

About 60,000.

[C]

Oh, yeah. So you've got plenty.

I mean, there's, there's a couple of schools of thoughts that we could go down the road of.

Let me start. And I, I, I'm not going to lie. This is not my favorite argument. Argument. And I, and I'll tell you why. But it is an argument. When you really think about how credit card points are derived and what they come from, it is really off the backs of who they're hoping will fail at the system. The people who won't make their payments on time, the people who will default. That's where the ability to do this point, these points are coming from. So, from, and I, and I just saying it, I'm not saying it has to be your ethics, but from an ethical point of view, a lot of people don't like that. They don't like the fact that one person has to fail for another person to win. So that's kind of one of the, the, the argument.

[B]

You could say the gross.

[C]

It's the gross factor that you could say for that. Now, that being said, there are lots of causes in the world, Ken, that people can say, well, I don't, you know, I don't use coffee if it's not fair trade. And I don't do this if it's right. Right. And you get to pick your causes.

[B]

If that's not one of the, the sweater, you happen. Right now, some people, because of the values, won't go to Disney. We're not gonna go to Disney World.

[C]

Listen, I'm going.

[B]

I said, I said some people, you.

[C]

Know, so my point is, my, my point there, Evan, is I'm not trying to, like, saddle you up with guilt, but I'm just trying to present the op. The, the option for you to think about something the same way you presented something to say, hey, you Guys may not have thought about this scenario. I want you to think about that scenario, and I'll really just leave it at that, because I'm never going to. And, you know, this calling and I'm never going to tell somebody to go into debt, like, period. I'm just not. Do I believe you when you say that you are, you know, paying it every month? Paying it every month and you've got the money backed there? Yeah, I do believe that. Do I also believe that if something happened and your business did not make the money you thought it would, would it cost you maybe a thousand or so bucks? Yeah, probably. Could you absorb that? Yeah, you could. But would it be better if you did? It didn't. Yes, it would. So I think about things like that. I also think about the idea that when you use credit and when you use plastic, you are going to spend more. That's what the data tells us. Depending on the type of purchase, depends on the percentage more that you will spend, and that. That there's also something. Something to that. Like your operating cost would probably be lower if you were paying cash versus knowing that you were getting points. So these are just things for you to be thinking of. Judging by your demeanor when you called in, I don't think you're going to change it. But I also am not going to lose sleep over it, and neither will you.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, Evan, what's the. Evan, what's the total max you could put on that credit card that you're paying off every month?

[D]

22,000.

[B]

Yeah. Could you see a scenario where you would be tempted, or you could be tempted to use some of that credit and not pay it off?

[D]

No, I hate that I'm scared of it.

[B]

But yet you have it.

[C]

It's just. That's what they gave him.

[B]

Like, for instance, I'm scared, and this is. I'm gonna be vulnerable. I'm very scared of snakes. Okay. I. Because of that, I would never have a snake in my house. You say. Well, it would be in the. What do you call those things? What do you put a snake in? Is it like a aquarium? Aquarium. I wouldn't put it in there because. Because to me, if I'm scared of the snake, even though it's in the aquarium and I would never like. To me, it just makes zero sense as to why. If I'm scared to death of credit, I would put something in place where you could potentially get.

[C]

He's getting enough of a benefit in his mind from it that for him it's a factor.

[B]

So we're not going to change your mind. So Evan, we're not going to change your mind. I'm not sure why you called. Right.

[D]

Sure. To see what your explanation.

[B]

Okay, here's my real.

[C]

Going to stump us like that's our explanation.

[B]

Here's my. For it. The snake one was a new one. I don't like it. And I. And I used it because I used this one last week. So I'm gonna go back to that.

[C]

Go back to the other one.

[B]

Ice cream.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I have a real love of ice cream and ice cream is not good for me because most of the time I eat ice cream is not at 2 o' clock on a Saturday. My ice cream love tends to come out after 7 o' clock and we shouldn't eat anything after 7 o'. Clock. More mostly should not eat ice cream.

[C]

For me bubble guts.

[B]

It's terrible.

[C]

Terrible. Yeah.

[B]

And so Evan, if I. But I don't have any ice cream in my house because if I did, I used to keep ice cream in my house. I would always have some type of a pint or a gallon in there and guess what happens? I don't want to eat ice cream. I don't want to eat ice cream. Evan. I don't want to eat ice cream. I don't like the way ice cream makes me feel in the morning when I weigh myself. I don't want it. I don't want it.

[C]

But you love the way it tastes.

[B]

Gosh. It's right there. It's right there. I just think if you're scared of eating ice cream cream and what it will do to you after hours. Don't have the ice cream in the freezer.

[C]

He's. It's going to take something happening for him to change his mind. Yeah, and I hope it never does.

[B]

He probably is recording this and he's going to tell his buddies he got us.

[C]

Well, he didn't get us. We just have different values. Yeah.

[B]

Different. Different beliefs.

[C]

Yeah. I.

[A]

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[B]

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Hey, if you're wondering where all of your money went in 2024. Five, you're not abnormal. That's pretty normal because normal's broke. But next year can be different. And you can get a head start by downloading every dollar right now. It builds a personalized plan and coaches you to find extra money so that you can put it to work to beat debt and build wealth. Just answer a few questions. You're going to find thousands on average in just the first 15 minutes. Did you hear that?

[C]

Yeah, I heard it, folks.

[B]

We're not making that up. That's real data. So every dollar has all the same great budgeting features. But now, now it's the personalized plan and the coaching to stay with you day in, day out so that you can win with your money. Don't go another year feeling like you've been feeling broke and stressed. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Mitchell joins us in Chicago, Illinois. Mitchell, how can we help?

[D]

Yeah, hey, guys, I could use some help and your opinions on a car purchasing decision coming up here.

[B]

All right, tell us what's happening.

[D]

Yeah, I'll set the stage a little bit here. Household income is about 200,000 a year, and we're debt free outside of the mortgage. We've got 30,000 in the emergency fund, but the wife's car is going to the dump that needs a new engine. And make a long story short on that front, we're just going to go car shopping this weekend for a used car.

The writing was kind of on the wall. I had saved. We've probably got about 15 grand set aside already for a new car. So that's a good starting point. But as I've been kind of digging in and figuring out what we want, of course, you know, the, the creep is coming in and we're, you know, starting to look at ones that are closer to 25 or maybe up like 30 grand out the door.

[C]

I'm not mad at it.

[D]

You know, I'm, you know, I'm a longtime listener, and there's just like this under. You know, I'm the nerd in the relationship, and there's this, like, guilty part of my conscience that's like, do we really pull like 15 grand out of our emergency fund to get us up to 30 in cash that will pay out the door?

[C]

I wouldn't do that because it's not an emergency, per se. It's not an. It's an emergency for you to get a car. It's not an emergency for you to spend 30 kids. What I don't have a problem with. I don't have a problem with you guys spending 30k. I think you need to save cash to do it and not touch an emergency fund for it. I would say that, yeah.

[D]

The only wrench that gets thrown into it is that the wife's car is burning oil. And I just got done going through the dealership and verifying with an independent. Understood, but nothing new engine.

[C]

Understood, Mitchell, but nothing stops you from getting what you can afford and then upgrading lift. Nothing stops you from. Do you see what I'm saying? Or, Or.

[B]

And I have driven cars. I feel like I'm the expert on driving cars that burn oil. How long can I understand that it's going to eventually need a new engine? Is there some kind of estimate on how much longer this car might last?

[D]

Well, just kind of talking with people and stuff. It's burning about a quart and a half to two quarts every thousand miles. So, you know, can I keep putting an oil in it and maybe get another couple months out of it? It maybe try it.

[B]

All right, let's press pause.

[D]

No, no, Joe, you don't have nothing.

[B]

To be nervous about. To Jade's point. You got 15k, so go with me for a moment, Mitchell. All right, so let's take what you just said. And by the way, I've done that. While I was saving up to buy a car, Jade, I would go to, like, a big warehouse store and buy a box of oil, and I check my oil every two or three days.

In fact, Joe Hankin is running the board today. Joe, you remember when I was. We were doing the show in Gainesville, Georgia. Wd you in? You remember? I've driving. I forget what I was driving, but I was checking my oil almost every two days to make sure that, you know, I wasn't Going to blow the engine up. And you can keep an engine going. If the only problem is burning oil, you can keep it going. So here's my point, Mitchell. Oil is a lot cheaper than. Than. Than buying a $30,000 car until we have the money for it.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

So let me change gears here. No pun intended. I can't believe I just said that.

[C]

That's.

[B]

That's horrible.

[C]

I'm disappointed.

[B]

That's terrible. That was all. I do that. All right, Mitchell, how many months would it take for you to save up the additional 15 to get a $30,000 car?

[D]

Somewhere in the range of three to four. I mean, the 15 is the gap on the.

[C]

Bingo.

[B]

I would go buy a bunch of oil.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And I would check that oil every three or four days.

[C]

Make it last forever. Yeah, make it last. Keep. Just keep it running.

[B]

Oil's cheap. And then how would you. So, Mitchell, play this out. Let's assume you do what I tell you to do and you nurse this thing. Thing. And you, three months from now, you've got the additional 15k, and you go buy a $30,000 car that you guys have really got your eye on right now. How would that feel?

[D]

That. That would feel really good. Assuming that's how it plays out.

Doesn't blow. Then. Yeah.

[C]

Can I jump in here? Cuz I. I hear. I hear what is in my book, which is the difference between rational and irrational fears.

[B]

Oh, there it is.

[C]

You have a fear, Mitchell, and your fear is very, very vague. The fear. And it. But it's stopping you from doing something that we're telling you, hey, there really is no. There's no. Nothing bad can happen from you playing this out further.

[B]

No, because if it blows up, he's got a car.

[C]

He's got plenty of money to go get a car. But what instead you're letting this very vague fear of. Well, something could happen with the car. The car could blow up. It could end up on the side of the road. It could. But you're not telling us something very, very real and specific that you're specifically scared. Scared of. Are you scared that your wife's going to be in the car with the kids? She's going to be pulled over on the side of the road. You're going to be stuck at the office. You won't be able to come get her. Tell us specifically what you're afraid of. Because then we can solve for it. But if you're going to keep it floating in the air as this big vague monster that nobody can fix, then we can't help you. So tell us specifically what you think is going to happen.

[D]

Definitely what you just kind of outlined there, Jane, you know, that's the real fear is like, know, we're in the dead of winter in Chicago right now, and, you know, if she's dropping them off in the morning or something and that engine blows, then, you know, we're finding ourselves in a bit of a pickle and down to one vehicle.

[B]

Hold on. Let's play it out. Let's play it out.

[C]

Let's play it out.

[B]

What would you do? Okay. Your wife calls you in exactly this scenario.

[C]

I'm on the side of the road. The kids are in the car.

[B]

They're gonna be late for school.

[C]

They're gonna be late.

[B]

I'm in my pajamas. I don't want anybody to see me. What did you. What would you do immediately?

[D]

I mean, we'd be going new car shopping.

[B]

No, that's not what you would do in the moment.

[C]

You'd walk away.

[B]

What would you say to your wife? We're role playing. What would you say to her?

[D]

Yeah, I'm. I'm on the way in the truck. Yep.

[C]

And how long would it take you play out the. The worst possible scenario if you were.

[B]

Yeah. Love this. How long does it take you to.

[D]

Get to half hour at the most?

[B]

Okay. Is she and the kids going to freeze to death in that time?

[D]

Nope.

[B]

Okay. Would you get fired from your job or having to take off and go rescue her?

[D]

No.

[C]

And in Chicago. In Chicago, aren't you kind of, you know, you keep blankets in the trunk, you wear a coat when you go out no matter what. Right.

[B]

Great point. We could have a contingency for.

[C]

Yeah. Oh.

[D]

So I think, you know, the real crux of what I wanted to call you guys is like, more. More on the front of just the emergency.

[B]

It's not an emergency.

[D]

Like, does this war.

[C]

No, it does not. It does not warrant you taking from the emergency fund, because it's not an emergency. This is not urgent. We know that you can get even if it's not three or four months to Ken's point, you know, you have a little bit of time. So it's not urgent.

[B]

Well, you know, number one, and you got a $15,000 sinking fund. Yeah.

[C]

It's not unexpected.

[B]

You just now want a $30,000 car. So you've actually done everything that we would teach you to do. You knew this was coming. You actually are the nerd, Ms. Mitchell. I could walk out of the studio, put you in the chair, and you could have answered your own question. Yeah, it's not an emergency.

[C]

And your fear while being. Now it's validated. We just solved it for you. So it doesn't have to stop you from moving forward with Ken's plan.

[B]

Hand warmers, wool blankets and a charged.

[C]

Cell phone will go a long way.

[B]

Charged cell phone? Maybe AAA membership. If for some reason you couldn't get there, they could. I mean, you know, there's a lot of things here. I'm just telling you I want you to get the $30,000 car and so does Jay. So we think it's three to four months of. And I promise you, I'm not the only person that has nursed a engine that is. And by the way, the engine won't blow if it has oil in it.

[C]

I inherited.

[B]

We know that.

[C]

I inherited a 1988 Nissan Pulsar from my sister. It was her first car. And then when she stopped driving it, I got it and I had to. The transmission was so messed up that you had to let it sit before it could go in reverse. You had to let it warm up for like 10 minutes. And I had to pour oil in it almost every day.

[B]

Yeah, and you can do it. Is it obnoxious?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

But is it better than taking 15k out of your emergency fund? Touching my emergency fund?

[C]

Never. Never.

[B]

I love it.

[C]

Never.

[B]

Mitchell, you're a good man. You got two options. Go buy the 15,000 thousand dollar car and then upgrade later like Jade said. Or wait three or four months and go get you a case of oil.

[A]

Everywhere you turn this time of year, someone's telling you to swipe a card now and pay less. But that mindset always leads straight to debt. And post holiday stress. Fairwinds Credit Union takes a different approach. They're here to help you win with money. Fairwinds doesn't push credit cards. They help you build savings and stay debt free. Just like we teach with the baby steps. And to do that, Fairwinds created the Smart Bundle with Ramsey fans in mind. It's more than a bank account account. It's a tool to help you live with intention. The Smart Bundle includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the exclusive Ramsey be weird debit card which says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. So every time you swipe at this Christmas season, it's a reminder that you're choosing a different path to spend no more than you actually have. To avoid that January budget hangover over. And to be free from debt traps, go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to open your Smart bundle and get your Ramsey Be Weird debit card today. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[B]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman and we're so happy that you're with us. Jade's going to take lead on your money questions and if you are feeling burned out or you just stressed out, no life balance as it relates to your work, I help people win in those areas as well. We did a survey recently, Jade, where we heard from the tribe. They said we are are feeling that way and that affects your money, by the way. So here to help on those specific questions as well. Laura is joining us now in Hartford, Connecticut. Laura, how can we help today?

[E]

Alrighty. I've got a residential real estate property that my mother owns in Brooklyn, New York. It's currently in a trust and when she passes, it will be inherited by myself and my three siblings.

[B]

Hey, Laura. Laura, can we see if we can have you adjust your phone so we can understand you a little bit better?

[E]

Better? Sure, sure. Is that better?

[B]

Oh, so much. Thank you.

[E]

Great, great. So the property is worth about $2 million. It's a residential property. It's got two rental units now and it's being rented.

I am debt free and ready to retire in 2026. My husband's already retired. I've got two siblings that when we inherit this property, would like to knock it down and develop it into a four apartment building, which I'm guessing would run about $4 million, which means each of us would be about a million dollars in debt.

[A]

Oh.

[E]

And I've got two other siblings that just want to sell it and divide the profits by 4. How do I convince the two that want to sell it? I mean. Sorry, that want to invest it.

[D]

That. That's a terrible idea, if I heard you correctly.

[B]

I'm just asking, is it three to two, you plus two against the other two?

[E]

It's myself and another who want to settle and two others that want to.

[B]

So we're split down the middle.

[D]

Right.

[E]

And they either want to develop it or just keep it and divide the rental income amongst the four of us, which is nothing.

[C]

And the assumption is that everybody should just be willing to go into a million dollars of debt to do this.

[D]

Mm, exactly.

[C]

Well, that's absurd.

[B]

Or become landlords. Right. Because they've given you two options. Develop it or we just rent it.

[E]

Right. And the rental income, it'd probably be $1,000 each a month, which in my mind is worthless.

[C]

Well, if the two siblings were so willy nilly to say, hey, just fork over a million dollars, then why don't you tell them to fork over the money to buy you out?

[E]

They don't have it and I don't have it.

[B]

How? No, but, but, no, I think Jade, you're actually onto something. So. So Laura, same thing. If it were me, I would say two things, maybe three. We'll, we'll count, we'll count them in a second. Here's what I, here's what I would do. Number one, I would make the case that what you're asking me to do is to go into debt and I don't do debt. So it's off the table. You've got to make it super clear to them where they're like, oh, she's like, doesn't appear to be movable on this. It's just I'm not doing at this stage of my life, Hubs is retired. I'm just not going to go into debt for scenario one. Secondly, I'm going to get out of your way quick second. I would say I'm not interested in getting a thousand dollars a month. That's like peanuts for me at this stage of my life.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Okay. And then three, I'll tell you what I would do. If you want to take out a loan, which their option number one is to take out debt, to knock this down and they can take out money and pay you your share of the $2 million.

[C]

Right. Which is less than the debt that they would take to develop it.

[B]

So that's what I. Because if they want to take out debt, they're going to do it anyway.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's not, you're not on the hook. So you go, give me my money, let me get out of the way. Here's what I don't want to do. I don't want my value system.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

To create conflict. So I've told you what I'm not going to do. Let me tell you what I will do. Here's my cut of the 2 million. And so you a part of your whole debt structure, you give me my cut and guess what I'm going to do. I'm going to walk into the sunset with my husband and we're going to be in Cancun and we'll talk to you at Thanksgiving. Yeah, that's what I would do.

[C]

Make the math make sense for them because. And it's the end of the day. It's the end of the day. So correct me if I'm wrong, Ken, but I see $2 million dollars and I see four people. So each of you has got 500, 000 in this.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

So are you telling me that they would rather fork over 1 million a piece instead of 500, 000 a piece.

[E]

Or do nothing and divide the rent and be landlords for the rest of our lives, which is a terrible idea.

[B]

It's horrible. But now let me ask you this. They can't do any of this without you. Correct it. Does it take a majority rule or, I mean, excuse me, is it a unanimous decision or how's this going to go down?

[E]

I believe it has to be. All four need to agree.

[B]

It does. So Laura, my. Did you ever see the movie Braveheart?

[E]

No, but I think I need to.

[B]

You got to go watch Braveheart tonight. All right, There's a. There's the penultimate scene, okay? And in this history, I'm not going to tell you the whole story, but there's a scene where the English are army is. They're on horseback and they have a huge army and they're coming after the Scots and the Scots have got axes and you know, it's just, it's this little rabble rouser group led by Mel Gibson. And Mel's got a plan, okay? And he knows that the British are going to be overconfident and they're coming at him, okay, Long story short, he's got these long poles, they've cut trees and they're waiting for these horses to get close enough so they can lift up these sharp things. And, and here's the, here's what he says to the guys. The horses are thundering down on him and they're freaking out and he goes, hold. And they get closer and he goes, hold. And so my message to you is, Laura, it's a unanimous decision. Hold the line. I gave you what I would say. Option one, nope. Option two, nope. Option three is give me my 500 grand and you all go bananas. I'm not going to hold up your vision at all. I think it's the only thing they're going to want to hear. And I think that's the only thing they should hear from you. So no to the debt and developing it. No to being a rental and yes to give me my 500k. Hold, hold, hold. Don't have to be ugly, just. Guys, I'm. You can do this. I'm not stopping you.

[C]

But give me My money.

[B]

It takes 500k, right? You're willing to go into a million, give me 500k.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

I'm super passionate about that. I think, Laura, that's the point. Play Jade.

[E]

I agree. I agree.

[B]

Yeah, you got all the cards. They can't do it without you. So make it super simple. And by the way, here's the messaging. I want you guys to be able to do this. I would start with, hey, you know the plan. I thought through it. I want you all to be able to do it, knock it down, rebuild it. It's going to be fabulous.

[C]

But do it without me.

[B]

One caveat I don't have the stomach for. My husband and I got a different plan for our life. Want you to be able to do it. And so here's the easy thing. Buy me out and I'm cheering you on. I would frame it that way. And, and again, I don't know how they're going to react, but I think it's a good deal.

[C]

Listen, I've already said it and I agree with you.

[B]

So, Lord, don't let any family pressure or any of that change your mind because you're going to end up resenting them.

[E]

Yeah, I agree. Well, I already do.

[C]

So who's the ring? I was going to say somebody's the ringleader in all this and it's not you. Who's the ringleader?

[E]

My older brother who thinks this was a family. It's a home that our great grandparents were born in and it needs to stay in the family.

[C]

Got it, got it, got it.

[B]

Oh, by the way, it is. It's staying in the family. You're not holding any of that up. Hey, hey, brother. It's staying in the family. It's just going to take 500,000 over here in my bank account and it's going to be super simple.

[A]

Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt and build wealth. And you can too. But you got to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start now. Take the free quiz and get your free step by step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to ramseysolutions.com start now.

[B]

Buying or selling your home is a very big deal and there's a lot of misinformation out there. You know the clickbait stuff on social media, you know, articles, things that are designed to kind of pull you in to make it a bad decision. And we are always going to be here at the Ramsey show to help you make sense of the latest trends and make good decisions. So just to give you a snapshot, the median home prices have been holding steady around 424,000 in October. About one in five saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room this winter to negotiate. Mortgage rates obviously dipped slightly in October, but rates are unpredictable and they move up and they move down. So we're not making decisions based on the rate. It's when are we ready to buy based on, on our cash position to be able to have a good down payment and to be able to afford where you are. So this might be a great time for you. Don't get stuck in the headlines. To learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, you can go to ramseysolutions.com market. That's ramseysolutions.com market. Let's go to May who joins us in Raleigh, North Carolina. May, how can we help?

[E]

Hi sir, how you doing today?

[B]

Great. How are you?

[E]

You good. Reason I'm calling is I wanted to ask. So me and my husband are looking at buying a house next year and we're looking at buying a house between 350 to $400,000 and we have about a $200,000 nest eggs for the down payment. So my question is, does it ever make sense to put down more than 20% even if you'd be able to afford the mortgage with that 25% of your take home rule taken into account?

[C]

Yes, yes. So I, I want to make sure I understand. So you could, you're obviously putting down almost half. Did I understand that correctly?

[E]

Yes, yes.

[C]

And you're saying you don't need to put down half. You could put down 20% and it would still be okay for you.

[E]

Exactly.

[C]

My thing, my only, the only thing that I might say no to that would be if you have consumer debt and if that money would be better spent paying off your debt ahead of time. Time. But if you don't have consumer debt, then I'm like, yeah, because the best way to pay for a house is if you could put everything down. Right. So I Would love if you could get as close to that as possible. And if that means putting down almost 50%, that's amazing. So do you have any other debt to speak of?

[E]

No, we're totally debt free. No student loans, no car debts, no debt whatsoever. So the only other thing.

[C]

Only other thing would be if it's a place that really needs a lot of renovation or a lot of work, you might want to reserve some of that money to do, you know, some, some. Some, you know, renovations on the house. Is there anything like that to speak of?

[E]

No, but that was part of my question was we have an emergency fund outside of that $200,000, that's about five months of expenses. But I've heard that you're supposed to have another, like, bucket of savings once you buy a house for things that could just naturally break. So I wasn't sure how you figure out how much of that, like how much you should save for a house or just like, in case the H VAC system or roof or something like that needs.

[C]

No, I mean, that's what your emergency fund is for. And this keeps coming up. Ken, we've talked about this every hour of the emergency fund is for things that are unexpected, urgent and necessary. And so if that happens to be your AC going out in the middle of summer, then, yeah, you dip into the emergency fund and pay it off. If you've got five months of expenses, if it would make you feel better to have six months, then, then go ahead and do that. But, yeah, I don't. I think that you're good to go. I think that what's happening here, and this is your choice to make with your husband. But I think what's happening is, is $200,000 is a lot of money, and in your mind, you're just weighing out the opportunity cost of do I want to put all of this on the mortgage, or could there be something else that this money should go towards? Is there? Right? And I think it's smart that you're just weighing out all your options. So if there were something that you were going to do with that money, other than put it on the house, in your mind, what would it be?

[E]

So really the only other thing I could think of is putting it in the marketing and letting it grow. So that way maybe in the future we have the ability to buy like a rental property with putting more than 50% down or trying to buy it fully in cash while only having a mortgage on the house. So we don't have any hard set plans. It would just Be does it make more sense to let it grow in the market and then maybe buy real estate property in full later for something like a rental property?

[C]

Well, the only reason I wouldn't do that is I kind of like it's almost. And we've used this analogy for other things before for. But it's almost like when you're flying on the plane and they tell you to put the oxygen mask on you first before you, you know, put it on the kids or the people who are next to you. There's. There's part of me that says if it's my primary residence, that's me and I want to protect me first and put my, myself in the best possible situation first, like my residence. Because let's think about this, Ken. When the rubber meets the road, when Covid happens, when somebody loses a job, when somebody has a diagnosis, the number one thing they think about is am I gonna be able to keep my home? That's where the security valve is. Right. And so right now we're not thinking about that. But if we put ourself in a scenario like I mentioned, that's the first thing we think about is is my home secure? And so for that reason, I would say I would choose, let me put as much down as possible so I can get this thing as paid for and in as secure of a place as possible. And then I can put, you know, the mask on these other things. Then I can start thinking about real estate, Then I can start thinking about these other properties that I may or may not pay for in cash.

[B]

I think that's a really good exercise. May have you actually sat down and said, okay, if we put 200,000 in it, what is our payment, what's our mortgage payment versus if we put 20% down?

[E]

Yeah, I have done that a bit. Just kind of online playing with like mortgage calculators and stuff. And really what it seems to be coming down to when I think, when I try to figure out does it make sense to put it in to the mortgage or to put in the market is mortgage rates and how much you expect the market to return. But from my understanding, you're not really supposed to put things in the market that are short term investors because it's so volatile. So I, I don't know if that's really a smart analysis to. I have it is play around with those.

[B]

No, that's right. But what is the difference, what is the monthly payment difference on the mortgage?

[E]

It only, I mean, I say only, it's a couple hundred dollars. So maybe three, $400.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But you could think of it like, I'm getting the best of both worlds because, because if I put the 200,000 down, I'm getting the security on the home front, but I also have $400 freed up that I can still go ahead and invest that and there is something to be gained from that. So I'm almost doing the best of both worlds in that way.

[B]

Yeah, I, I just, I was thinking of that in the scenario that you gave us. Jade, it's smart, you know, if, if, if things were to get crazy, you go, what would be like a, like I just wouldn't have to worry.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

On this house, you know, if you have the mortgage. And so, so, you know, I think it's a good question. Really glad you called. And wow, I must say, the fact that you guys have been so disciplined to save up $200,000, we don't talk to many people that have saved that kind of money. So I say kudos to you. You guys are in great shape. And I would ask on the investment question, what is your retirement situation? What's your nest egg right now?

[E]

So retirement between us two, total is at 295 and we're both 26 years old. So almost $300,000.

[C]

Way to go.

[B]

Oh, see, I tell you something, you guys are 26. If you did nothing, and I know that's not what you're saying, nor are we recommending, but if you did nothing at this age, that 295 is going to be a lot of money. So just your normal baby step four, you're going to be in phenomenal shape.

[C]

Well, tell us about your income because income alone is telling. Like the fact that you can do this is telling me you guys are high income earners. What do you earn?

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

So right now, so I recently switched jobs. So right now together we 200. I was at a previous job where my base salary was about 100, where it is now. But I got very large bonuses. And so I've been taking those bonuses and investing that and putting them in retirement and things like that. So that's kind of how we built this nest egg. So I have kind of made that switch now that I have the nest egg, which I was a bit much. So I did kind of say, okay, I feel like I've made enough to kind of find a little bit more sustainable job. I'm still able to put stuff away, but not as quickly as I did beginning of my twenties.

[B]

Can I ask what your field is? And what your, what your husband's field is.

[E]

Yeah, we are civil engineers. So I went into kind of the project management side of civil engineering and he went into the design aspect of civil engineering.

[B]

Love it, Love it. That matches up, by the way, with our Ramsey millionaire study.

[C]

It does, yeah.

[B]

You guys engineers were in the top five.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's two 26 year olds killing it. You know, listen, I know they have great jobs, but they're in phenomenal shape. So this idea that, oh, I can't be done in today's world and I'm not making. Minimizing how expensive things are, but man, they're doing it and what a great place to be in. But yeah, I, Yeah, put it on the house.

[C]

Put it on the house.

[B]

That's what, that's an asset. Let's not forget about that.

[C]

Absolutely. And it's. Yeah, it's an investment. There's more than one way to invest. One way is the stock market, another way is in real estate.

[B]

Yeah. Great question, May. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for the question.

[C]

Sam.

[A]

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[B]

All right, let's go to John in Kentucky. John, how are you today?

[D]

Doing well.

[B]

All right, good to have you on here. And John is a baby steps millionaire. And we love talking to the baby steps millionaires because they've got great stories. Right. And, and they tell us how they did it. So John, thank you for that. Tell people how old you are.

[D]

28. My wife Jenna is 30.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And 30, that's impressive. Okay, what is your net worth?

[D]

1.2 million.

[B]

Hey, all right. No messing around.

[C]

Nice. I know.

[B]

Give us the mix of the 1.2.

[D]

So the largest portion is in real estate. We've got about 550,000 in real estate, 350 in retirement. We got a couple hundred thousand in non retirement retirement investments and then about 120 in just liquid cash.

[B]

Wow. So you're only 28. What's the real estate? Is that your home or is that rental properties? What is this a Little of both.

[D]

Our area here in Kentucky, the market is friendly for real estate investments. We've got a couple homes within that 550, but our home and two rental homes.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And what's your income?

[D]

It, it varies considering that. Just varying on the number of overtime hours I work, but it averages out to about 300,000 combined between the two of us, 300 to 350,000.

[A]

Good for you.

[C]

Wow, way to go killing it.

[B]

What do you guys do?

[D]

So my wife's a.

Software application specialist and I'm originally a pipefitter by trade, but I've been working as a piping superintendent the last three years. So I travel around managing industrial construction projects.

[B]

Okay, yeah, go ahead.

[C]

I mean I'm, I'm listening to this. I'm, I'm 40 something and I'm thinking, okay, if I could have got, got been smart enough to get started when you guys were, that would have been amazing. So how did you get good at money? How did you know these are the things we need to be doing. We need to be avoiding debt, budgeting, et cetera. What put you onto that early on?

[D]

Honestly, I think about the age of nine, I was eight or nine.

I was in our garage where our dogs spent most of their time. That's where all their food bowls were. I was feeding our dogs and realized that we were almost out of dog food and, and went in the house. I told my mom, mom, we're almost out of dog food. Add that to the grocery list. And she told me we can't afford dog food this week, maybe next week. And.

After that that stuck with me. I remember going to baseball practice that night and that just, it didn't leave my mind the rest of the day and yeah, it did. So just my parents taught me to think for spending and to make hay while the sun shines and save what you can.

[B]

How much have you two been? First of all, how long you been married?

[D]

Three years.

[B]

Okay, so what had you saved prior to becoming married?

[D]

So I had, coming into the marriage I had about 160,000 saved and she had about.

30,000 saved.

[B]

And no debt.

[D]

Majority of our. No, no debt. I had a small auto loan several years ago, but we've never, never had student loans or really any kind of debt of any kind.

[B]

When did you start working? How old were you?

[D]

18.

[B]

Okay, so I'm looking, I'm talking to a 28 year old who's been working for 10 years and you've been able to save a lot of money and I love, love that you're a pipe fitter. I love that, you know, because it's like for too long in America, we've looked down on the trades and now I'm talking to a dude who's rolling got properties, no debt in your life. 28 year old pipe fitter. What would you say to parents who are worried maybe about their kids going into trades?

[D]

I think, well, I'm a lot like you. I think that at 18.

I think you're too young to make a decision on what you want to do for the rest of your life and buy the college education. So I think that I tell a lot of folks that even if the trade isn't what you want to do for a career, get into it for an apprenticeship and you get exposed to so many other careers within the construction industry, the engineering, all the different avenues you can go within construction. It's just a really good stepping stone into management. Just like I've done. It's a great place to start. And just, just being a construction worker on the tools now you can make so much money. It's a, it's definitely a worthwhile avenue.

[B]

So here you are, a millionaire. And in your social circles, so social circles in your world, does anybody ever look down on you because you don't have a degree?

[D]

Yeah, my grandma, before she passed. Every time, every time I would talk to her on the phone, she would ask me when I was gonna go to school and start getting serious about an education. Right, Right. For the most part.

[A]

No.

[B]

No, of course not.

[D]

Really?

[C]

Not.

[B]

Oh, I love that. What is your saving? What has been your saving plan? I'd love to know what your budget looks like because you're definitely, both of you are living on less than you make. So give us the real, real on what your, your spend is versus what you guys make.

[D]

I would say our, our savings rate is probably 75%.

[C]

I knew it. That's what I was doing. You guys are squirrels, man. You're just packing it in.

[B]

I love that.

[C]

What types of things do you do? I mean, obviously you're stacking up cash. I'm not mad at it. What, what is your lifestyle? What types of things do you do to have fun, to really just enjoy what you've created?

[D]

I would say so. We're both outdoors men and women. We bought, I guess what you'd call a vacation home in Idaho. In Idaho. So that we can spend time hunting and fishing out there. And that's pretty much what we do with our time. I travel full time for work, so I'm not Home much. So when we do get time together, we like to go out there.

[B]

So now what's the plan going forward? 28 and 30, you're on this massive track to be multi, multi millionaires. You got no debt, you got properties, you got a good job. What's the dream at this stage?

[D]

That's.

Kind of what I'm trying to figure out right now. What we're working on.

We're trying to put together somewhat of a maybe a three to five year plan. I love what I'm doing right now, but I realized that being home three weeks out of the year is not sustainable long term.

[C]

That's right.

[D]

So I think using the upfront earnings at such a young age to set ourselves up to create an income off our own investments and then maybe just get further into the real estate thing for myself when I'm ready to come up.

[B]

I gotta pivot here real quick. This is what I do. I want to help really quickly because I think it's pretty clear for you.

If you never needed to earn another nickel, what would you do Monday through Friday?

[D]

Honestly, I'd probably just move. Move to that little town of ours in Idaho full time and just be a handyman and help the ranchers out there.

[B]

Can I tell you, I knew whatever.

[D]

Odds and ends they got.

[B]

Can I tell you something? I think that that's what you ought to. You, you figure out your calendar, you and your wife. I do think it's crazy for you to be away from her this much for much longer given the financial situation that you're in. You're crushing it. So you could transition into this trade it maybe not travel as much. I don't care what the bridge looks like. But I'm going to tell you you something. That answer, John, I want you to chew on because you gave me a real answer. Because you're going to be so financially free that you can go out to that area and maybe build something a little bit bigger, get into some real estate there, but stumble into a business around the stuff that you love, which is outdoors. And I'm telling you man, that's your future. Talk to your wife about that. Say hey Ken, put me on the spot and this is what I said and let her, her start, let her start answering that question. What would she do?

[D]

She's right there with you. She's right there with you. We'd go tomorrow if it was solely up to her.

[B]

Well, so here's the thing, one last thing.

That nine year old experience was seared on your conscience and you shared it with us. And I think that is driving you right now. And I think you're working crazy. You're doing a lot of amazing things. But don't let that scare scarcity mindset hold you back from the future that you've earned right now. That'd be my challenge to you.

[A]

Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard, hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt and build wealth. And you can too. But you gotta have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start now. Take the free quiz and get your free step by step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to ramseysolutions.com start now.

[B]

Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 29:25. It is dangerous to be concerned with what others think of you. But if you trust the Lord, you're safe. You might as well solid. You might as well. I feel like I hear you say that kind of stuff all the time. You might as well be preaching right now. And our quote of the day from Theodore Roosevelt. In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can can do is nothing. And by the way, yeah.

This is silly, but I'm going to share it because I think this is going to be powerful for somebody that's listening or watching today. The worst thing you can do is no thing. We've turned it into nothing. But when I see that, I go, it's no thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

To do no thing at all is the worst thing.

[C]

Well, people think they're not choosing, but doing nothing is also a choice.

[B]

It's a really bad choice. And some of you need to hear that because you know, you need to make, make some tough decisions to change your financial life. It's just sitting there waiting for you to just do that thing. And that one thing leads to the next thing and momentum is very, very real. That's why we teach the baby steps. So don't miss that little truth there. We don't just do that scripture and quote just to, you know, throw it out there, let it hit you and receive it. Ethan is up in Kansas City, Missouri. Ethan, how can we help? Doing good. How are you, sir?

[D]

Doing well. Thank you. Guys. So I'm recently engaged.

[B]

Congratulations.

[D]

Yeah, thank you so much. So, just proposed a couple of weeks ago. So now the big question is wedding and what that's going to look like. So I'm.

[B]

I am more on.

[D]

We're kind of on two different ends of the spectrum here. I'm more wanting a smaller wedding with some family, maybe close friends. I mean, I honestly would just elope, Sign the papers, and let's do this thing.

[B]

Classic, classic male response, right?

[D]

Absolutely. And my fiance, on the other hand, she's more of let's have a bigger wedding with, you know, all of our family, all of our friends and church members and show that biblical covenant in front of everybody. You know, it's the only wedding we're gonna have, so let's, let's go that route. So really just kind of the question of how much should we spend on the. On the wedding and what route we should go.

[C]

I mean, the money is what's gonna do the talking here in my book, so.

[D]

Absolutely.

[C]

Who's paying for it? First off, is it just you two?

[D]

So her, Her. Her parents are putting 15,000 towards. And then my parents are putting five.

[C]

Okay, so you've got 20. What about you guys?

[D]

That's, what's the thing. So we don't. We'd prefer not to have to go into our own. If we, if we don't. If we have the choice and we don't want to have to spend any of our own.

[C]

Can you do what she wants to do on 20?

[D]

That. I mean, I'm. We. We definitely could. We definitely could.

[C]

Really?

[D]

So I'm, I. I could plan it.

[B]

I could plan their wedding. Well, for $20,000.

[C]

When he said a big wedding, like, these are vocabulary words that people have different definitions of. So when you said big, I'm thinking.

[B]

Like, yeah, what is that sculpture? How many people? When she said the whole church.

[D]

Well, so, I mean, if it'd be like all family, extended family, friends, church, all that. I mean, It'd probably be 400, 450 somewhere.

[C]

That's what I'm saying. I don't think you're doing $450 wedding on 20,000. My guy.

[B]

I'm your guy. I've never planned a wedding. I'm going to do it right now. Here's how you do that. Tell me, Ken, the ceremony is for everybody. All right?

[C]

Oh, we're playing this game.

[B]

I'm trying.

[C]

You got to have a Golden ticket to get to the party.

[B]

He's got 20 grand. You need to do a wedding on 20 grand. But she wants to be in front of everybody then. So what we do is we do a lovely ceremony, and the whole church that wants to come, they all get to come. But there is a.

[C]

How do you feel if you're one of the scumbags that doesn't get to go to the party afterwards?

[B]

I already know where I stand. Don't tell me these people, 400 people in the church, they all think they're coming to the reception.

[C]

They know.

[B]

They don't do life with you.

[C]

I don't get to go to the party. I'm not going.

[B]

And that solves the problem. Thus, my brilliant. I am a brilliant strategist. I didn't realize this until now. This is so clear in my mind, Ethan, dead serious. So here's what this is gonna do. You've got 20 grand committed. All right, you two have said we would like to not put any money in. So let's play this out. Let's go run it out. So how would we do all the things we want to do? So you tell your fiance. All right, babe, here's the deal. You want the whole church? We tell everybody in the church we're doing a big ceremony. But we're gonna do this thing debt free. Blame it on Ramsey. I don't care. And you say so what we're doing is, is we're gonna have a ceremony, and we'd like. We're gonna have little bags of rice, and you can stand around and throw them at us.

[C]

And then we go to the party spot with 20 of our select. With a hundred of our select friends.

[B]

And the budget will dictate that. Now, if she hears that. And I, by the way, I want this. I'm doing this so Jade can, like, push back for holes in my strategy. Because right now I'm super impressed with my strategy. And it might be bad strategy, but by bringing this up to your fiance, then she gets to go, well, that doesn't feel right. And she has the Jade opinion, which is the female opinion, and you're probably right. So then we go, well, then we can't invite 400 people.

How many people can we invite?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And here's my thing. In 2025, do we have to feed everybody just to come celebrate us?

[C]

You could. I think there's some strategic things you could do there.

[B]

I don't think so.

[C]

I think what you need to do do is because I, I.

[B]

How much do many Corn dogs cost at Costco.

[C]

You need to stop, Ken. You need to stop.

[B]

I'm just saying he's got 20 grand.

[C]

I would if I were you. And this is going to sound like, wild, and your wife is going to do this. I would check the etiquette books on this, because weddings.

[B]

Oh, is that something I can look up?

[C]

Well, weddings, there's etiquette around it. Like when you send. For instance, when you send out the invitation, you know, you have to put the stamp on it for them so that they can just send back their rsvp. Right? You wouldn't give them an envelope without a stamp on it. That's considered bad etiquet. So I would check the etiquette around Ken's idea. I'm not saying it's wrong. I just don't know.

[B]

Brilliant.

[C]

It feels a little interesting to me. It might be fine, though. So I would check on that kind of stuff to see. Is there a way that we can include people in the proper, respectful way in one part of the wedding and maybe not in the other wedding? Just make sure you're doing it the right way.

[B]

Okay, I don't want to take this dark, but I want to ask a real question. Does everybody that comes to a funeral go to the graveside service?

[C]

No.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I don't know what. Go ahead, Ethan. This is your call. I'm trying to save you money, buddy. Jade's trying to cost you money. That got very dark very quickly. That's the truth.

[D]

So my side of it, so we won't be any debt when we get married. And I think future. And so knowing that we're on the same page about this, and I totally degree when. When we have kids, she's going to be stay at home mom. And so we'll be on one income. And so I'm. I'm an elementary PE teacher and then coach our middle school football and basketball team.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

And so. So for me, I just think future, I'm. When. When are we going to ever be offered $20,000 ever again? Probably not.

[C]

So they're okay. They're okay with you taking some of that money and just simply pocketing it for life? Not. It doesn't have to go to the wedding.

[D]

Well, that. So I. I think in some facets, some sort of winning in some way shape or form a wedding is going to happen. And so to me, it's like, hey, why don't we, you know, put like, make a $5,000 wedding, and then we can take the other 15, and then we have that for our future when we're trying to get a house and whatnot.

[C]

But let me throw this at you. If you invite the right people, you will also get cash.

[D]

Okay?

[C]

Because that's what most people give you as a wedding gift. And if. If they have their etiquette, they're not coming in with a crumpled up 20, right? They're giving you a decent gift.

[B]

So I'm gonna speak on behalf of all males if you were to tell me that for the rest of my life with Stacy, when we get invited to a wedding, all I gotta do is the ceremony, and then I don't have to go eat and do all that stuff. I get to go on with my life. I would be out of my mind.

[C]

But what's the best part? Is the better part the ceremony or the part party? If you. If you have to choose, I'm choosing the party.

[B]

But that's with people you actually want to party with. They do not want to party with 400 people.

[C]

There's an open. Including the deacons matter it. Are. Is there going to be an open bar?

[B]

It's too expensive.

[D]

No, we. We both don't drink, so there won't be any alcohol.

[B]

Okay, so we just saved a lot of money.

[C]

You just saved a bunch of money. Hey, can I tell you, my wedding didn't have an open bar either. And that's why we do ours.

[B]

Mine either. Anyway, trying to help you out, Ethan. I like all these scenarios. Here's what I would tell you. Having been married 27 years, and I'm. And I love marriage.

[C]

Come on, Ken. And say it, because I'm right there with you.

[D]

I married yesterday.

[B]

Listen, I. Listen, if it were up to me, I would have just done the little church ceremony and let's go. Yeah, I didn't want to be at that reception. I didn't want to do all that. I wanted to take off on the honeymoon.

[C]

Well, let me say it from the other perspective.

[B]

What are we doing?

[C]

We had an. Sam and I had an awesome wedding, and we paid cash for it, and it was just what we wanted. And it was probably bigger than what Ken is saying, and it was bigger than mine. As a person who's been married, you know, less than, you know, 15, 16, 17 years, I don't think about the wedding anymore. No, no, you don't think about it.

[B]

You can't even remember half of it. The ceremony is what matters to me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Very important covenant. All right, folks, remember this. There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ.