Stop Hoping Someone Else Will Fix Your Money

Summary

The Ramsey Show Podcast Summary

Episode: Stop Hoping Someone Else Will Fix Your Money
Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network – George Campbell & Dr. John Delony

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers around a tough-love message: taking responsibility for your own financial future and not waiting for someone else, a government program, or even a well-intentioned parent to fix your money problems. George Campbell and Dr. John Delony field listener questions about family money dynamics, debt payoff strategies, parental boundaries, investing, big life transitions, and health/legacy concerns. The theme throughout: clarity, directness, compassion—and the importance of setting expectations and confronting financial realities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parent-Child Money Boundaries and Ultimatums

- College Student Opens a Credit Card ([00:15]–[09:02])

• Situation: Caller Jesse discovers her 18-year-old daughter opened a credit card in college, against parental wishes. The family is considering withholding her college 529 plan unless she closes the account.
• Advice:
  • Both hosts caution against reactive punishments when clear expectations weren’t set ("There was no contract in place that said you lose your 529 if you open a credit card." – George, [06:41]).
  • Urge parents to use the moment for honest dialogue rather than coercion—prioritize the relationship and clarify future expectations.
• Memorable Quote:

  "If you pull college fund, you're going to cash out your relationship with your kid." – Dr. John Delony ([05:51])

  • “Instead I would dig in and say, hey, why’d you open the card? ...There was no contractual language in place.” – George Campbell ([06:46])
• Key Takeaway: Set explicit boundaries ahead of time; don’t punish retroactively. Use these moments to connect, not control.

- Cutting Off Health Insurance from a Young Adult ([22:24]–[31:45])

• Situation: Parent wants to kick 19-year-old daughter off health insurance after she moves out and drops out of college.
• Advice:
  • Urged not to use medical coverage as a weapon.
  • Distinguish between enabling bad behavior and punishing with necessities.
• Quote:

  “She’s 19 making a 19-year-old decision, and I’m not going to put my kid in a position... I wouldn’t put my kid’s life on the line at 19 to prove a point.” – Dr. John Delony ([29:01])

• Takeaway: Pick your "cut-offs" carefully; essential support (like health care) shouldn’t be used for leverage.

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2. Debt Payoff & Loan Forgiveness: Take Charge or Wait?

- Attacking vs. Hoping for Loan Forgiveness ([10:33]–[20:22])

• Situation: John from Boston asks if he should go “gung ho” on $94k in student loans or play the long game with loan forgiveness (PSLF).
• Advice:
  • Both recommend NOT banking your future on government promises. Too many students disqualified, and the uncertainty isn’t worth it.
  • “I trust you more than anybody making some promise just to get themselves elected.” – Dr. John ([12:52]), cautioning against depending on forgiveness programs.
  • They stress the freedom and long-term flexibility of being debt-free sooner, rather than being ‘owned’ by a system for ten years.
• Quote:

  “That's the part that worries me… that's how you operate through life, waiting for an exterior force to fix this instead of [you] being able to fix this.” – George ([15:10])

• Takeaway: Fix yourself—don’t wait for rescue.

- Multi-Loans/Overwork—Debt Snowball Advice ([33:01]–[42:26])

• Situation: Ezekiel in DC is overwhelmed by $50k+ in debt despite working 2 demanding jobs (5×12-hour shifts).
• Step-by-step Guidance:
  • Focus on necessities first (rent, utilities, food).
  • List debts smallest to largest (debt snowball), attack in order, and apply freed-up payments to the next.
  • Provided encouragement for hard work and discipline ("You're not scared to put [your head down]... I'm proud of you." – John, [35:37]).
• Memorable Quote:

  “You're working for your lenders right now... I'm rooting for John versus the system.” – George ([33:52], [14:16])

• Key Takeaway: Take focused action, not desperate measures—debt payoff is a solvable math problem.

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3. Major Life Moments: Family, Legacy, & Hard Conversations

- Funeral Expenses for Estranged Parent ([44:33]–[52:49])

• Situation: Kate in NC wonders if she should save for her estranged father’s funeral, given little relationship and limited means.
• Advice:
  • Don’t let imagined future anxiety dictate today’s priorities; deal with real emergencies first (“You’ve created a future problem and dragged it back to today and are trying to solve it today.” – John, [46:00]).
  • At the end of the day, decide “Who do you want to be?”—the person who honors their parent, regardless, or sets a boundary?
• Memorable Quote:

  “Ask yourself this question…who do you want to be? ...Reverse-engineer the actions to get to the identity you want…” – Dr. John ([47:04])

• Key Takeaway: Let future you handle the future; focus on today’s emergencies.

- Terminal Illness, Estate Planning, and Letting Go ([117:34]–[123:45])

• Situation: Danielle, facing metastatic cancer at 59 with a young child, asks about how to prepare her husband for life after she’s gone.
• Advice:
  • Don’t rush major financial decisions after tragic events—hold with a loose hand, wait 6–12 months if possible.
  • Update wills, assign beneficiaries, line up practical details, but don't let worry dictate everything.
• Quote:

  “Make a list: things I’m worrying about, and things I can control today...Then, go back to ‘okay, what can we control today?’” – Dr. John ([121:01])

• Key Takeaway: Plan what you can, but don’t let future dread rob you of life today.

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4. Money & Relationships: Couples on the Same Page

- Parental Pressure & Marriage at 20 ([65:31]–[74:41])

• Situation: 20-year-old Isaac is getting married young, against divorced parents’ wishes.
• Advice:
  • Respect parents’ caution—their “lived experience is real”—but you get to choose what you build.
  • The key is self-awareness, intentional growth, and excellent premarital counseling (“You’re going to get smacked right in the nose by reality if you go into this [unprepared].” – John, [70:10])
• Memorable Quote:

  “Go into it very humbly. You have to do marriage totally differently than your parents did.” – Dr. John ([73:18])

• Takeaway: Major life decisions are yours, but get the skills, don’t just trust feelings.

- Overspending “To Feel Something” ([76:13]–[82:15])

• Situation: Marissa in Illinois is a stay-at-home mom who's “always been a spender”—her personal spending is draining the family.
• Advice:
  • Stop seeking the “root cause" and act—block spending avenues, physically remove the temptation, build up discomfort tolerance.
  • Have a strict, enforced budget, even if it’s “hard.”
• Quote:

  “The best way to make a change is to act your way into changing your life…stop spending money. Put up some insanely high hurdles.” – Dr. John ([77:13])

• Key Takeaway: You don’t need another therapist—you need relentless, practical interruption of your own behavior.

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5. Investing & Retirement: Start Now, Don’t Wait

- Late Start, No Knowledge—What To Do at 62 ([106:52]–[116:03])

• Situation: Karen, 62, separated, wants to pay off her mortgage and invest for retirement—feels lost.
• Advice:
  • Don’t bank everything on paying off your home—invest 15% of income in 401k, even if it seems late.
  • Compound growth still adds up—you’ll have nothing invested if you don’t start.
• Quote:

  “If you can fog up a mirror, there is hope for you yet, Karen.” – George ([115:18])

• Takeaway: It is never too late to begin; start today and expand your skills.

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6. Big Financial Decisions: Moving, Schooling & Career

- Should We Move for Financial Freedom? ([82:37]–[85:40])

• Situation: Danielle debates moving provinces for money, leaving family behind.
• Advice:
  • Frame decisions as non-permanent (“What if y’all made an agreement to try this for 12–24 months?” – John, [85:06])
  • Built-in specifics (like budgeting for family visits) helps manage emotion and logistics.
• Key Takeaway: Most big decisions aren’t permanent—treat them as experiments.

- School If I Want to Be a Stay-at-Home Mom? ([86:13]–[93:30])

• Situation: Kenna debates whether to pursue expensive schooling, given desire to be a stay-at-home mom.
• Advice:
  • Don’t take on new debt; cash flow education, keep options open, and recognize life rarely follows your timeline.
• Takeaway: Be honest about your season, keep options open, and avoid debt as you plan your family/career path.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------| | [05:51] | "If you pull college fund, you're going to cash out your relationship with your kid." | Dr. John Delony | | [12:52] | "I trust you way more than anybody making some promise just to get themselves elected." | Dr. John Delony | | [29:01] | "I'm not going to put my kid's life on the line at 19 to prove a point." | Dr. John Delony | | [46:00] | "You've created a future potential problem and dragged it back to today, and you're trying to solve it today." | Dr. John Delony | | [77:13] | "The best way to make a behavior change like this, the best way right now for you, is to act your way into changing your life." | Dr. John Delony | | [115:18] | "If you can fog up a mirror, there is hope for you yet, Karen." | George Campbell | | [70:10] | "You're going to get smacked right in the nose by reality if you go into this [unprepared]." | Dr. John Delony |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Parent/College Daughter Credit Card Boundary: [00:15]–[09:02]
• Public Service Loan Forgiveness – Should I Wait: [10:33]–[20:22]
• Health Insurance as Leverage: [22:24]–[31:45]
• Buried by Debt – Blue-collar Solutions: [33:01]–[42:26]
• Estranged Parent Funeral – Financial/Moral Dilemma: [44:33]–[52:49]
• Terminal Illness, Legacy, and Preparing Spouse: [117:34]–[123:45]
• Marriage in the Face of Parental Doubt: [65:31]–[74:41]
• Over-spending Stay-at-Home Mom: [76:13]–[82:15]
• Late Start Retirement Planning: [106:52]–[116:03]
• Moving for Financial Gain: [82:37]–[85:40]
• School vs. Stay-at-Home Motherhood: [86:13]–[93:30]

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Episode Takeaways

• Don’t wait for someone else—or some external event—to rescue your financial life.
  Every story, from the overwhelmed debt-holder to the stressed-out parent, is a call to personal responsibility and action.
• Set boundaries early and communicate clearly.
  Most family drama could be avoided by explicit expectations, not assumed “unspoken rules.”
• Prioritize relationships over punitive financial decisions.
  Don’t “cash out your relationship” for a quick lesson—you’ll regret it.
• Start investing now, even if you feel it’s too late.
  Compound growth needs time—but any start is better than waiting.
• In every crisis, control what you can, plan what you can, but live today.
  Don’t drag all your future worries into the present.
• Build a budget, face uncomfortable emotions, and get radical with necessary change.
  Don’t just understand your problems—gut them out with practical steps.

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Episode Tone:
Candid, direct, encouraging, never harsh—but always standing for personal responsibility, healthy boundaries, and hope.

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For More:
Check out ramseysolutions.com for tools mentioned (EveryDollar, guides, SmartVestor Pro) and more advice on taking charge of your money and your life.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Campbell]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel, joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney. And we're taking your calls at Triple 882-55-225. That's how you join the conversation. Jesse is kicking us off in Minneapolis. Jesse, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, say, I am calling because I have a freshman daughter new to college, and my husband and I recently found out that she opened a credit card. She knows we're against that. My husband tossed around the idea of kind of giving her an ultimatum. Excuse me. An ultimatum that if she doesn't close it, we will not provide her the funds from her529. And I'm just curious your thoughts on that. We haven't talked to her about that yet, but we're just trying to figure out how to navigate it.

[George Campbell]

How'd you find out about the credit card?

[Caller]

Well, when she was home on Thanksgiving break, she goes to a college fairly close to home. I saw it in her wallet.

[George Campbell]

How do you see it in a wallet without opening said wallet?

[Caller]

She has, like, a little. It's like a thing attached to her lanyard. She has her student ID in it and then her debit card. And then.

[George Campbell]

And then you have. She doesn't know that you know at this point.

[Caller]

She does know because I asked her about it.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Did she get defensive? Was she like, well, here's why I did this.

[Caller]

Not really. I mean, she didn't get defensive. She was kind of open at first, but then didn't really want to tell me what the balance was on it.

[George Campbell]

Oh, was there an agreement? Hey, we're going to pay for school, but you have to go completely debt free. You're not going to go into debt. You're not going to open a credit card. What was the conversation like?

[Caller]

I don't feel like we ever had a specific conversation, but as she turned 18, I do recall, like, seeing, you know, credit card offers come in the mail and just told her kind of like, please don't ever open one, please don't open one. I mean, I just. She knows we're against it, so I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I just want to call out George. The joy of this show is sometimes people call them and they're like, I found cocaine in my son's room. And. And then I found my daughter has three Husbands. And then occasionally it's like she has.

[George Campbell]

The Delta Sky Miles car.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Found a Discover car. It's so great. Okay, so in George, jump in here. Like Jesse, my rule of thumb is always a. I expect my kids to explore and press boundaries and see if they hold. Okay? So that's, It's a, It's a feature, not a buck. The second thing is, is there's tons of things that I like and I regularly badmouth to my son, like country music he loves. And by the way, I love it. I just like to harass him how short young teenager shorts are. I think short should go pass the knee to mid shin like they did in the late 90s. He disagreed. Right. So he also knows that me and my wife don't borrow money. That's number one. So I expect him to roll his eyes to say, oh, dad's into that, but I'm not. And mom and dad have a reason for X, Y or Z. And I'm becoming. He's. He's a, he's growing into a late teenager. Right, but your daughter's 18. She's. She's a young adult. Right. She's turning into her own woman. And so I would say, as someone who's worked with college students my whole career, hearing you say I don't like something is far different than you sitting down and saying, here is an expectation that we have. If you want to accept this, here's the, here's the bargain that you're going to make with us. But you getting upset because you all have this firm belief about a thing. So take, Take debt off the table. That's too easy. As the Ramsey Show. Let's say you told her, you can drive this car, but in order to drive this car, you have to go to this church. Then she has a choice to make. Do I want this car or do I want this? But I. It feels to me awfully caustic to circle back and say, hey, we did not give you a firm boundary or a firm, A firm set of responsibilities. If you're going to take our money, you know how we feel about things, that's fine. That goes into a bucket of a whole bunch of stuff mom and dad like and don't like. But this is. If you're going to take our money, here's what our expectations are. You need to make these grades. You got to go to class this much. If you take out debt, then this is. Then you are choosing to not accept our money. And so I think if I'm going to sit On a, on a jury here I'm going to side with 18 year old and say I know mom and dad hate this. Mom, dad hate a bunch of stuff they weren't. And then to pull out my college funding feels caustic without sitting down and saying hey, we weren't clear. This is that big of a deal to us and that's our fault. We weren't super clear on our expectations for, for you. But if you pull college fund, you take the 529 and by the way, even your language, it's Yalls money, It's Yalls account. But you called it your her529, her college fund. And that's the language she's going to hear is mom and dad got mad and threw a temper tantrum at a thing I did and they took away all of my college fund as a way to force me as a young adult to do something. She's going to either a do it out of spite or she's going to not do it. You're going to cash out your relationship with your kid.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You get what I'm saying? So it's your money, you can do whatever you want to with this. But man, I think it's the right honorable thing is to sit down and say we messed this up on the front end. We gave you this huge blessing called college, paying for your college and we didn't set our expectations for you choosing to accept this money or not. And so we're going to, we're going to reset that.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you think it's worth losing, I mean if, I mean that feels like play it out.

[George Campbell]

I'm a future thinking person so I gonna probably go into crippling student loan debt now and we're going to lose the relationship. I'm like this is going to harm you guys more than it's going to harm her. I mean she'll be suffering financially but you guys are going to go why did we, was it worth it to teach her the lesson? Instead I would dig in and say, hey, why'd you open the card? Like what's behind that? What were you hoping to accomplish? Because if it's trying to save up, we can help you do that. If you're trying to get a credit score, we can show you why you don't need that for this stage of your life. And I think getting to the root of it and owning it like John setting, hey, we didn't do a good job setting this up. There was no contract in place that said you lose your 529 if you open a credit card. So it does feel caustic and a little bit reactive. So I would try to just calm yourselves emotionally, have the conversation with her and then go from there. But I, I personally wouldn't pull it. And this is the Ramsey guy. If my daughter opened a credit card, I would be heartbroken. Absolutely. But what I pull two decades of savings away from her as punishment. I don't think I could do that. I would rather see her stay debt free on the student loan side and figure out this whole credit card debacle separately.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And here's, here's Ju just sitting with college student parents over the years, I would do everything I could to A, be clear and B, continue to be a place my daughter will call when, not if, but when something happens, whatever that something is. A bad grade, a bad event, a scary thing. Shame eats secrets for breakfast. And so the fact that when you said, what's the balance on that card? She said, I'm not going to tell you. That means that that 18 year old didn't feel safe enough to tell her mom. So this might be a great place for you to go out to take her to breakfast one day and say, I haven't fully told you my experience with dad. Here's what happened. Here's what I did when I was 22, here's how long it took us to pay it off. And this is why it's such a big deal. We love you, we love you. And then if you all want to say you want this money, you do. This you can do.

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[George Campbell]

John is in Boston. Up next, what's going on? John?

[Caller]

Hey, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call. Big fan of you guys. I just had a quick question in regards to, you know, how should I approach my student loans? I have $94,000 in student loans and I make a salary of 75,000 a year. The reason I ask how should I approach it is because I work for my local government and I'm eligible for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program. And I'm also reading the Baby Steps Millionaires book. And Step two obviously talks about attacking your loans and going gung ho. And so I'm just questioning, should I attack my loans and go gung ho and just go crazy on them, or should I take advantage of the loan forgiveness program by my local government and, and, you know, making smaller monthly payments and then saving and investing the rest? So just wanted your advice on how to approach that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let me ask you this as a guy who's. How long have you been working in local government?

[Caller]

I've been working in local government. It'll be six years in March.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Very cool. So when you see what happens at the local level and at the state level and at the federal level.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is there anything about your experience, both like your lived experience and what you see going on that makes you think in any shape, form or fashion, you can predict what any member of any government is going to do in four years?

[Caller]

I don't think there's. Yeah, no, no, no. I don't think I can. I can predict that if you did.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would connect you with our friends at Better Help because you'd need a therapist. Like, yeah, it's all. All I know is my lived experiences was working as a dean of students at a law school, and I had some of the most amazing young men and women who had incredible minds. And they chose to not go into private law because they wanted to serve the least of these in their communities. And they chose public service. And they chose public service because of the. Do this for 10 years and we'll pay off your loans. And the amount of them that got denied over and over and over again made me so sour on this deal. And it comes down to who do you trust? And in this situation, like, based on what you're Saying I trust you way more, way more than anybody, making some promise just to get themselves elected or reelected.

[George Campbell]

Do you have any other debt, John?

[Caller]

No, that, that's just about it. The student loans is how.

[George Campbell]

Have you actually signed up for the program yet? Like how far into it are you?

[Caller]

So, so that's the thing. I'm currently in the master's program. So while I have been working for the state government, I'll be graduating, God willing, in May of 2026. So I wouldn't start until May of 2026.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And then it's 10 years from that.

[Caller]

It's 10 years from that. Yes, yes.

[George Campbell]

So how old are you now?

[Caller]

I'm currently 28.

[George Campbell]

All right, so let's say like by your 40th birthday, maybe this shakes out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or another way to say that, three presidential elections from now.

[George Campbell]

And here's the thing, people don't think about John, because they get starry eyed that their hundred grand is going to disappear. Number one, your balance will likely grow until that number gets forgiven. And you're going to be making payments that entire time for 10 years. So you need to add up what that's actually costing you. And by the way, the amount that's forgiven is taxable. So you're going to owe taxes on top of that while the balloon has grown while you've made payments for a decade. And let's hope that it all shakes out perfectly. And so that's my fear. I'm not like angry against the program. Like I love to see someone working for their community, you know, have a benefit like that. I, I just don't think it's worth it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I love that idea.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, but for your personal life, John, because I'm rooting for John versus like the system, I think you could get out of this debt realistically within two to three years max if your income doesn't go up. And so the question is, could I like put a little umph into it and be done in two years and have the next eight be free or do I want this living in my head rent free for a decade going, oh gosh, I hope it works out, I'm making that payment again. I hope it works out. And that's my heart for this I'm rooting. I just believe in John more than pslf.

[Caller]

I hear that. Yeah, that's, I mean again, I've been using the loan simulation calculator that my loan provider has and you know, it's not the most, it might not be the most accurate, but it's the Closest thing I have using that calculator.

Calculator.

And I'm, you know, thinking about maybe throwing, you know, two grand a month at my loans. And you know, the calculator states that, you know, you'll be paid off in, you know, four and a half, five years if you just do that.

[George Campbell]

And that's if you do nothing differently. That's if your income doesn't go up, you don't try to, you know, ratchet the expenses down. And I just think when you, when you have that goal to become debt free, all of a sudden you go, I'm willing to make more, I'm willing to spend less, versus kind of sitting on the sidelines hoping that an exterior force changes your life. That's the part that worries me because then you, that's how you operate through life, is you go, well, it's not up to me. I gotta find out if there's a, a program that can fix this instead of John being able to fix this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And here's another thing that people don't take into that calculation. If you're really good at your job, you know what, you're gonna have tons of opportunities. You're gonna meet somebody, they're gonna want to move across the country to be by their parents when you have twins accidentally. And part of the calculation will not be freedom and not what do we want to do and what cool opportunities do we have in another local government, in the state government, in another state or in a new for profit entity. It will be, but I gotta stay here for four more years. And so there's a never. This never gets taken into the calculation is a decade of sleepless nights because you are owned by somebody else.

[George Campbell]

Because now you need that job.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I have to have that job. I'm already this far into it. So I'm gonna not do something that could be a good opportunity, not do something that's gonna be best for me and my family. Not go, whatever. Because I'm stuck in this thing because they have a hundred grand set of golden handcuffs around my wrist. And I just don't. I just saw my students deal with it and I, I don't have. George, you may have it. I don't have any of the data. When I left, it was like 98 or something. Some crazy percentage were getting denied.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so I don't.

[George Campbell]

It might be 96 now. Like slowly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It might be better now. And I. Let me reiterate, as a taxpayer, I love the idea that my tax dollars go to getting some of the best and brightest minds and hardest working people into serving people in local communities. I love that idea.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But I don't get to make that choice. And so that, that's, I mean, or to put it this way, I went and paid my student loans off as fast as I could and I, I was working at universities, was a non profit. I qualified for the same program. I worked as hard as I could and got those stupid things done. So it's not just me. I got some skin in the game too. I did that because I just didn't want to be beholden to whatever person in office holding that over whatever thing they wanted to do ten years from now.

[Caller]

That's a fair point. I, I, I, I appreciate that perspective and that's, that is something I don't think I ever took into consideration. Just the future landscape of it. So.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And can I throw one more thing at you while you're on the phone? If you don't have the cash to pay for a master's program, I would tell you postpone it, hold off because that's yet another set of shackles.

[Caller]

I hate to disappoint you that I'll be finishing that master's program in, in May of next year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So, so it, you're not disappointing me. I, I don't, I don't owe, I don't owe student loans anymore. But I do know I had six figures of student loans and I didn't sleep for years. It made me insane. I had to say no to opportunities. I had to do different things, live in a different house, drive a different car because of that choice I made. So even if you had to submit a letter of I need to take a semester off and so I can earn some more money and they may want you as a student and they're going to give you a scholarship or they say, great, we'll pick you up next semester. Whatever you need to do. I just want you to know you don't, you're not stuck in a track where you have no options. I want you to reclaim your free, reclaim your freedom.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

What's the master's in?

[Caller]

The master's in Urban planning.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And that's the exact field you're in. Does it come with a pay bump immediately?

[Caller]

I'm not in the, in the current field at the moment. However, the jobs that I'm looking at do come with a significant pay bump. Once, you know, obviously once I'm done with the program and get selected for the position that I apply to.

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So let's say by next fall, could you be making six figures?

[Caller]

Definitely low six figures there are, but most likely probably mid to high 90s.

[George Campbell]

Because I'm just wondering, you got two grand you can throw at the debt now? What if you had another two grand because of the pay bump and you kept living how you're living and now we're debt free in two years?

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, again, that is something I'm taking into consideration. If I do, my intent is, you know, within the next few years or a few months to get a significant pay rise. So.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or, or what if you have six or seven years of working in local government and you have this graduate degree in urban planning and a construction firm hires you to help them navigate government contracts and they're going to pay you a quarter million dollars. Right. So not attaching yourself to this government program 10 years from now allows you to keep all of your options open.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[George Campbell]

Simplisafe. Christmas is almost here and our deals are still going strong. So grab gifts while you can. These prices won't last much longer. Rachel Cruz's kids books are on sale for just 13 bucks. They're a meaningful gift for little ones. Fun, easy way to teach them about contentment, gratitude and generosity. And I'm biased. My toddler is a big fan. And if you're shopping for everyone else too, there's other deals. 13 best selling hardcovers, including books for myself and Dr. John DeLoney. 13 career assessments, $12 for questions for humans decks and 7.99 audiobooks and ebooks. Get it all ramseysolutions.com store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. Annie is in San Francisco. Up next, what's going on.

[Caller]

Annie? Hi, guys. How are you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Doing? We're good. How are.

[Caller]

You? Okay, I would say I'm.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. What's going.

[Caller]

On? So we recently had our daughter, our 19 year old old daughter, she moved out of the house with her boyfriend. She dropped out of school. And in one of the many, well, not one, but a few of the many heated conversations or I would say arguments that we would have, we will be very clear about what would be removed if she were to go out of the house. And among those it was removing or not being responsible for her health insurance. Now, she was born with a heart condition. She's been having a few surgeries over the years. And now that open enrollment is going on, I told her that she needed to find a way to be responsible for her own health insurance. The last conversation I had with her and I told her, you know, you need to look into this. It's Almost, it's almost 15 and nothing. Enrollment is going to come to an end and we need to see what you're going to do with insurance. She got mad at me. She said, why are you doing this? You know you can't take me out of insurance and I know I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can. What are you, what are you trying to accomplish by taking her off, taking away her health.

[Caller]

Insurance? So she thinks that living with her boyfriend at her boyfriend's house is just being. She pretty much went out of the house to be free of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Responsibility. Is it to be free of responsibility or to be free of.

[Caller]

You? Well, I guess free of everything. Just being at home. She had to bring me good grace. She had to be at home at a certain.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Time.

[Caller]

Okay. You know, so I don't know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That it's free of responsibility. It sounds like she wants to because she's gonna have rent and she's gonna have to do stuff at this new place.

[Caller]

Right? Well, that's my thing. I don't think she's being responsible over.

[George Campbell]

Anything. So do you think cutting her off health insurance will make her more responsible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Somehow? Especially with a heart condition that you know she's going to need surgery for? Because here's what it sounds like. It sounds like you're, you're less. Even more than punishing, it sounds like you are trying to control what an adult does.

[Caller]

Right. Well, in, in, in my. But on the other hand, I want her to know that being an Adult has a lot with.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It. I got that, I got.

[George Campbell]

That. If you were like funding her drug addiction, I'd say, yeah, no, this is enabling, let's cut her off. But access to medical care, I don't think is directly connected to this relationship decision she made. We can agree on that, right? Because I read the prodigal Son, I don't know that the dad kicked his son off healthcare when he left the house with the inheritance. I assume he kept him on the plan, the family plan went all right. Hopefully he comes back one day. I can't control him. And lo and behold, he came back. And so I just think there's a piece of this that you might need to, to let go and then let her test these boundaries. Let her figure this out for herself a little bit. But I don't think the healthcare should be a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Condition. It just, it feels. Tell me if I'm wrong. My guess is this conversation escalated. You're gonna have to get your own cell phone. You're gonna have to pay for your own car insurance. You're gonna have to pay for your own gas. And she's like, fine, fine, fine. And then you went with the nuclear option, which is, I know you've got a heart problem. I'm gonna pull that funding off the table too. And now it's hard to walk that back. Is that fair or did you go come out of the gate with.

[Caller]

That? Not really. Because we, since she was young, we were teaching her how to be responsible in many.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ways. I know, I know. But what you're telling me is you taught her all of these things and she still doesn't have that message. You get what I'm.

[Caller]

Saying? My mom. My mom. Hard. It's telling me that I should keep covering her health insurance. But at the same time, I want her to know that I don't want to have all of this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Within. I got you. So I. All I can tell you is in this situation, what I would do in my house, and I have a young daughter, if my daughter had a medical condition and she was making a. What I thought was a boneheaded, idiotic, 19 year old decision, I'm not going to put her life on the line to prove a point. I will sit down with her and say, I love you. This door will always be open for you. You know what I think about the decision or decisions you're making is. And I can't contribute to that. So you're going to be on your own with your car insurance. You're going to be on Your own, with yourself. Like I would put those things out there and I would always have it tethered with. You can always come home, this door is always open for you, and I'll meet you in the driveway with my arms wide open. And I would look at my daughter and say, you've got me as your dad, you got me pinned up on this one because you know I'm not going to let you die on an operating table because you don't have any money. But I need you to hear me say my heart's broken. Not I'm going to keep control you and controlling you and send you off. Because she's 19 making a 19 year old decision. And does she need to learn that adulthood has responsibilities? Of course she does. No question about it. But I spent my whole career working with 19 year olds and they do 19 year old things and I'm not going to put my kid in a position. This is me personally. You do what you want and you are well entitled. Say you're off. You made a choice, you go do it. I'm just telling you in my house, I wouldn't, I wouldn't put that on the.

[George Campbell]

Block. But that's just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Me. I'd be very clear about my boundaries. The question I want you to ask yourself is what is the ultimate.

[Caller]

Goal? I mean, we, we had this conversation with her already and she knows she can come back home whenever she feels like she can be on herself, like whenever she needs us, she can come home.

[George Campbell]

Anytime. But she also knows rules and restrictions may.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Apply. Yes, but she also knows the home she would be coming to is so cruel that my mom would rather me not have health insurance and prove a.

[Caller]

Point.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. And so what kind of home are we coming home to? Not a boundary free home, not a rule free home. They're just, they're just again, if you call and said, I feel like cutting off the, cutting off her college funding and cutting off her cell phone. If you've sat down and been clear, I'd be, I'd support you. Go get it. It's your money. Do what you want. Because of the precarious nature of this situation. Let me put it this way. It feels like y' all are playing blackjack and you know you have an ace and I want to challenge you not to play blackjack with your.

[Caller]

Kid.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. But that's just me. George, what do you.

[George Campbell]

Think? I, I don't think her prefrontal cortex is, is fully baked yet. So it feels like a lot to put this on her. And I I simply would. Right now it's opposing magnets and you're just driving her further and further away. I would try to flip that magnet around and go, how can I draw her in and show her that I'm truly a safe place for her? And then I truly want the best for her. And that might be a year or two before she has to figure that out and the breakup happens and she goes, mom, I need a place to crash. I messed up, I'm.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sorry. And maybe that's the thing you tell her is I love you enough that when this thing goes south, when it goes sideways, we'll be here. And I'm not going to. When you walk in the door, you're not going to be met with a lecture. You're going to be met with open arms. We know how this ends and we'll be here. But as for me in my house, I wouldn't put my kids life on the line at 19 years old.

[Caller]

Foreign. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. The holidays are here, which means family time, giving back and remembering what the season is all about. And let's be real, it also means shopping.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Y'.

[Caller]

All. If you're anything like me, December gets really busy and really expensive. It's harder to stay intentional with your spending. And that's why I love shopping on Amazon, especially this time of year. Named the lowest priced US online retailer for nine years running by Profitero, a third party analytics and research firm, Amazon's prices are up to 14% lower across top categories and beat competitors by up to 5% in key gift categories. Between amazing deals, stress free shopping and fast shipping. And Amazon makes gift giving simpler, the holiday season a little brighter and helps me keep my budget in check. That allows me to get back to enjoying the season. What more could a busy mom ask for? So for more information about Amazon's low prices and easy, affordable holiday shopping, head to Amazon.

Today.

[George Campbell]

Foreign. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Open phones at Triple 8, 825-5225. Ezekiel's in D.C. up next. What's going on.

[Caller]

Man? Good afternoon. How you guys know.

[George Campbell]

Today? Doing great. How can we.

[Caller]

Help? So I'm oh over $50,000 worth of debt. Most of it is loans. And you know, loans have monthly payments, some for 330, some for 500, some for 200. So mixing all the monthly bills for these loans, try to keep up with my credit and my everyday expenses, rent, food and stuff like that is kind of killing me. I'm really going in a circle and my goal here is just to, you know, pay off my debt because I make a decent amount of money, but I'm not enjoying it because all my money mostly goes towards paying this.

[George Campbell]

Debt. Yeah, you work for your lenders right now because every paycheck disappears to.

[Caller]

Them. Say that.

[George Campbell]

Again. You're basically working for your lenders right now. You're working to provide them a.

[Caller]

Paycheck. Pretty.

[George Campbell]

Much. So how much do you.

[Caller]

Make? I make $38 an hour on one job. Bring home about, about four, four hundred dollars a month. And I just got a second job making about $34 an hour. And I'm bringing about 2, $600 a month. So somewhere under $7,000 a month.

[George Campbell]

Is one full time, one part time. How are you juggling.

[Caller]

Those? One full. They're all 12 hour shifts. So it's 312 at one job, the one paying 38, and it's 212 at the other job. It's not really good for my health. It's not really good for my health. That's another problem. So I'm just doing five straight.

[George Campbell]

12. What kind of work are you.

[Caller]

In? Monday through Friday, I'm an armed security.

[George Campbell]

Guard. Can I just say.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This? George is gonna listen, you're at the right place. And George is going to walk you through a step by step how to do this. All right, but can I just shout you out, like just guy to got man to man here. Like, do you have kids? You.

[Caller]

Married? No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sir. Okay, I just want to just shout you out because the, the word on the street is men don't know how to work. And men are all lazy and they're just a bunch of bums and filled and on and on and on. And I hear a guy that probably did exactly what he was told to do on everything. You got to get a new car. You got to get this. You got to get this. And you're not afraid to go work and get after it. And I, I want to tell you, man, I applaud you. And George is going to give you a path to freedom. Is that.

[Caller]

Cool? Cool, man, I, I gotta say, I really appreciate that. I worked my tail.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Off. I know you do, man. I can hear.

[George Campbell]

It. And that's what gives me hope that you're gonna get.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Out. This show is for guys just like you. I'm proud of you, man, because you're not scared to put. George's gonna give you a hard path. It's not gonna be easy, but he's gonna give you a path out of this mess, and I'm proud. I just Want to say I'm proud of you, dude. It's.

[Caller]

Awesome. Appreciate it.

[George Campbell]

Man. So number one, Ezekiel, you need to focus on your four walls first before you pay anything. And that's your rent, your food, utilities, transportation. You can cover all of that, right? With no.

[Caller]

Problem, right? I'm taking.

[George Campbell]

Notes. Good. I love it. So rent, utilities, food, transportation, just cover the basics first before you pay any lender, before you do anything else. You can throw insurance in there too. Make sure you're on time, you're on track for your insurance payments. And you're bringing in $7,000 right now. That's what I heard. That's your take home.

[Caller]

Pay.

[George Campbell]

Right? Are you doing any investing right.

[Caller]

Now? Not at all. I have a lot of ideas and a lot of dreams. But I have this thought process that I have to clean my plate.

[George Campbell]

First. Amen, cuz. I was going to tell you to stop investing because right now my thought was he might be doing a lot at once. He's trying to save some, he's trying to invest some, he's trying to pay off some debt, trying to live. And so you want to focus on debt payoff. Anything above and beyond those expenses we mentioned is focused on debt payoff. And right now you've got a bunch of debts, don't you? How many separate debts would you say you.

[Caller]

Have? I would have to say at least six. I have this silly thing where I think taking out more loans is going to help me take care of the loans that I have.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Already. That just makes you normal, man. That makes you normal. You ain't.

[George Campbell]

Crazy. And when people get desperate, they'll go to desperate.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Solutions. Yeah, you get sold that all day long. So you're not.

[George Campbell]

Crazy. Yeah. And all the marketing is going to be like, oh Zika, we can help you get out of debt. Take out this consolidation loan. Right. So what are the debts? Like you said, there's a bunch of loans. What type of loans are they? Car loans, credit cards, personal.

[Caller]

Loans. I have one credit card for three, $300. It's $86 a month. I have a personal loan for 13,000. That's 330. I have a car note that's almost paid off. From where it starts, it's down to about 7,000 from 2500 in over five years. But it wants 465amonth and that's killing me with car insurance. So I'm paying about $800 from for my car. I have a another personal loan for 8,000 and that's about.

[Dr. John Deloney]

250Amonth. So what are all these personal loans.

[Caller]

For? All these personal loans literally just to keep me above ground and try to catch up with all the other loans and damages to my car.

[George Campbell]

And. But what started this whole process? Because you make good money. So what caused a guy making six figures to go. I can't pay the bills because it wasn't.

[Caller]

The. These debts as it stands, man, just bad money management. I'm really bad at managing money. I've been trying to do this for so long. I had an idea to move somewhere in the state cheap, but decided to help out some family members. So I moved.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In. There we.

[Caller]

Go. Where? Yeah, I moved into our house where we're renting the house for $3,600 a.

[George Campbell]

Month. And you're paying the.

[Caller]

Rent? I'm not paying it all by myself, but I'm.

[George Campbell]

Paying. What's your.

[Caller]

Portion? Fifteen. I'm paying.

[George Campbell]

1500. Okay. That's reasonable for a guy taking home seven.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Grand. But do they expect you to pay all the light bill and all the water because you're the rich one.

[Caller]

Now? No, I'm literally just paying the 1500. But I came from a place where I was paying 5 and really doing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well.

[Caller]

Okay. And then I came here and now I'm paying.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well. You weren't doing well. You were just able to shuffle stuff around on the Titanic a little bit more. But 1500 is not bad if you make the kind of.

[George Campbell]

Money. Here's the hard truth. You're not in a position to help anybody right now. The weak can't help the weak. And I hope and I know that once you're out of this mess, you're going to be a real generous guy because you have a heart to serve and a heart to help, and you do security for a living, and yet your life is so insecure right now. Your finances are out of control. And the good news is, look, the napkin math says you put two grand a month towards your debts. You're done in two years. You see how that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Works? And you're not scared of hard work. So put 2500 and you're done in three.

[George Campbell]

Years. And then you get exciting. What if I did three grand a month? Well, that's 36 grand a year. I'm done in 18 months. You see how. How this starts to roll and then what will cause you to feel the progress and momentum is using the debt snowball method. And I'm going to gift you every dollar. It's our budgeting app. It's really more than that now. Because it's going to coach you through this whole process. So you're going to lay out all of your debts in the app and you're going to focus on the smallest balance. So what's your next smallest debt? What's the balance on.

[Caller]

It? I would say the smallest one would be credit card of eleven hundred dollars. That would be the absolute.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Smallest. Done. That one's.

[George Campbell]

Done. Guess what? Within the next 30 days, that 1100 bucks is going to pass through your hands and you can throw it, knock out the credit card.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Debt. Don't.

[Caller]

You?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Done. Great. So that's one debt freed up. And remember, you freed up the payment on that, so now we can apply that to the next smallest debt. What's the next smallest.

[Caller]

One? The next smallest one, I have it all written down here. Would have to be something I left out. I left out, I took $5,600 out for, from my 401k as a loan. So that would be the second smallest.

[George Campbell]

One. Okay. And that one will get knocked out within what, three.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Months? Be done by March on that one.

[George Campbell]

Sweet. And so now you can start to see the progress. You go, okay, I'm actually making progress instead of trying to not, you know, play whack a mole here with my.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Debts.

[George Campbell]

And. And every dollar will lay all of this out very clearly for you. But here's the. Here's the fact of the matter. You're going to have to keep this income up for a little while longer. But I don't want you doing this. I don't want you working, you know, five 12 hour shifts for the next four years. We can agree on that.

[Caller]

Right?

[George Campbell]

Right. But could you do this for a.

[Caller]

Year? My lady is. My lady does not like it at.

[George Campbell]

All. Oh, I bet. Well, she doesn't see you. You're a ghost to her. And even when you are around, you're probably not super fun to be around right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now. And you're going to have to tell her, hey, for 24 months, we can't go out to.

[George Campbell]

Eat. Date night looks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Different. For 24 months, we're going to go on walks and hikes and free movies at the local whatever, because we. I'm going to get a. I'm going to be. Listen to this word. I'm going to be.

[George Campbell]

Free. We're going to be splitting a Costco hot dog 75 cents a piece. That's the life you're going to live for a very short time, Ezekiel, so that the next 20, 30, 40 years of your life is truly free. Is truly Secure. So hang on the line, Christian's gonna pick up. We're gonna gift you every dollar to help coach you through this. Exactly what we did on air. It's gonna do that 24, 7 in your pocket, giving you recommendations, a personalized plan to help you out of this mess. You call us back if we can help once.

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

Punch. And. Oh, you're telling me. And for, for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to.

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[George Campbell]

800-356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. In the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, I'm George Campbell joined by best selling author Dr. John Deloney. And it's open phones at 888825 5225. Give us a call. We'll do our best to help you take the right next step for your money, your relationships and your life. Kate is in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's going on?

[Caller]

Kate? Hey, how are you.

[George Campbell]

Today? Doing great. What's your.

[Caller]

Question? Good.

Good. I have a question about paying for potential funeral expenses for an estranged.

Father, so we haven't.

[George Campbell]

Really. Is he still with.

[Caller]

Us? Yes, he.

Is. He's 65.

In. In not great.

Health. So I would expect, obviously, sometime in the future.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But. Well, even if he was in great health, you could expect sometime into.

[George Campbell]

The future for all of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Us. It's coming for all of.

[Caller]

Us. Exactly.

Exactly. I just like to get ahead.

Of the curve before anything catches me by surprise. He's really not of the means to have pay for anything himself. Won't have any kind of an.

Estate or anything like.

That. My siblings won't really have any means either. And so I feel like it's.

Going to fall on.

Me. But with not really having a relationship more than an occasional phone call, that kind of thing, I'm just kind of curious what my obligations are and then also what I need to do because I'm working through baby step.

Two. I've got about 20,000 more in.

Debt to go, but do I pause baby steps to throw a little bit in savings or what do I need to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do? Struggle. And this is the pot asking the kettle here. Do you struggle with.

[Caller]

Anxiety? Of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Course. Yeah. So you've created a future potential problem and you've dragged it back to today, and you're trying to solve it today. As one amazing young man at my church once said, this is a problem for future you right.

[Caller]

Now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay? Like financially, okay. Like the financial. Like, if he drops dead tomorrow, God forbid, I hope he doesn't. If he does, then we'll solve that problem tomorrow. But right now, you're in the. You're in your own emergency, which is, I got to get this stuff paid off. The second thing I would ask you is, where does the word obligation come from? Because that can be a legal question, like, who pays for the burial here for a guy that I don't want anything to do with. But I hear you asking more of a character slash spiritual slash moral.

[Caller]

Question. Yeah, it's definitely more of a moral.

Side. I don't wish any ill will toward.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Him. Sure. But so ask yourself this question, and this is a haunting question. Who do you want to be? And you get to answer that however you.

[Caller]

Want.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay? And what I mean by that is I want to be a person who, even if somebody treats me like crap or whatever, I'm going to go do this. I'm going to call this the next right thing, which is I'm going to pay for as inexpensive of a burial as I can, but I'm going to show dignity and respect, and I'm going to go on about my life. Or I want to be a person who holds people accountable to how they treated me. And so you don't want anything to do with me? I'm not going to have anything to do with you. Or I want to be a kind of person that lets them have it. I mean, I can go on for days, but you have to ask yourself that question and then reverse engineer the actions are going to get you to the identity that you want to see when you look in the.

[Caller]

Mirror.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Okay. And I wish it was more complicated than that. And I know it's.

[Caller]

Heavy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. It's simple, but it's really hard.

[George Campbell]

Right. If this funeral happened, who would show.

[Caller]

Up.

There? There might be a handful of.

[George Campbell]

People. Okay. So we can limit this. This isn't going to be a big thing. We can limit the cost of this, keep it as simple as possible. And whoever signs the funeral agreement is going to be liable to pay. And so I would try to get some agreement on that before that day comes so that it doesn't add stress to the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Grief. Are you can cremate him? I mean, there's any number of things, paths you can take.

[Caller]

Here.

Okay. I'm.

Just. I'm almost hesitant that if I bring it up now, then everything would.

Fall on me and there would be no cooperation at.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All. If you're asking that right now, then you know that's what's going to happen now. 5 years, 10 years, 15 years from now. You know.

[Caller]

That.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And so worrying about trying to solve that in the present is not a good use of your time or energy because you can't solve.

[George Campbell]

It. What's your timeline to get out of.

[Caller]

Debt? I should be out of debt.

In the next 12, 18.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Months. It's amazing.

[Caller]

Congratulations. Thank.

[George Campbell]

You. And then beyond that, you've got an emergency fund. And I would start saving up knowing that there might be three, four, five grand on the line that I might need to pay to cover this expense if no one else chips.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In. Or I'm going to be a person that's not going to cover other people's stuff. And so I'm going to go on about my life, but you're going to have to look yourself in the mirror long after he's.

[Caller]

Gone. Yes.

[George Campbell]

Right. And in the grand scheme of life going, man, I hate that I spent three grand. Or you go, you know what? I don't regret it. Yeah. It wasn't a fun thing to pay for. It didn't solve any family.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dysfunction. But I did the next right thing for me.

[George Campbell]

Exactly. And so either way, I would make peace with the decision and not role play this in your head. Letting it live rent free. That will just consume you because.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You have a bunch of imaginary conversations with people, don't.

[Caller]

You? Of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Course. Yeah. And then she said. And then I said this. And then you always get like the mic drop moment.

[George Campbell]

Right. And you might be right. It might play out exactly like.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That. But 99 chance. No way. It feels like. I remember Brene Brown said this and I loved it. She said, we spend a lot of time dress rehearsing tragedy. We spend a lot of time imagining what would happen if the worst case thing happens and how we're going to respond and how we're going to be the hero and how nobody's going to. And what that does is it serves as a Xanax to us dealing with the problems that we have in our life right this minute. And it's just a way to distract yourself. It's like TikTok, except in your own mind, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. And so just knowing that rumination never solves a problem. And as a ruminator, I know that's easier said than done. Right. I'm like, just don't eat the cookies. And I'm like, but I have to. Right, Right. So I get that. But yeah, George is right. If. If you're asking what we would do in our personal life, George, illustrated.

[George Campbell]

Parent. I would just save up and.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Pay. I put three grand or five grand aside and I would say, I want to be the kind of guy that buried his father, and I want to be that guy. But that's just. That's for me. Right. And I don't know.

[George Campbell]

Your. It's not like, oh, I'm better than someone because I'm doing this. It's just this is the simplest route to get through this is for me just to deal with it versus getting angry at everyone in my life and saying, why aren't they chipping in? I knew they wouldn't chip in. Well, then you just drank the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Poison. Yeah. And hope they suffer for it. And they're not going.

[George Campbell]

To. So you might decide it's easier for me to just suck it up and pay three grand than it is for me to make seven phone calls that are going to ruin my month.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then ruin nine Christmases from.

[George Campbell]

Now. I'm guessing you don't have a great relationship with many people in your.

[Caller]

Family. Not my biological family.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[George Campbell]

Okay. There tends to be a ripple effect there. And I'm sorry you're dealing with that. And yeah. That's at the root of all of this, is you're frustrated, you're sad, you need to grieve. The fact that you should have a relationship with your family, like that's crazy to not be able to have a healthy relationship with your biological family and yet that was taken away from you for things that were out of your control.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right? Yeah. Be.

[George Campbell]

Heartbroken. And it's just a reminder of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That. Do the scary impossible, right? Next hard thing. So if you're at George and I would probably get through that 20,000 bucks as fast as we possibly could and we would save up an emergency fund for three to six months. I am an anxious guy, so I like the six to seven month emergency fund. And inside of that would be the money I needed to bury somebody that I'm estranged with. But that I think is the next right thing to do. That's the.

[George Campbell]

Path. And if it happens before, before you're debt free, just pause the debt snowball. Save up as much as you can as fast as you can and get through this. So sorry.

[Caller]

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[George Campbell]

Y'.

[Caller]

All. Open enrollment has a lot of people scrambling right now, but CHM lets you join anytime, so go to chministries.orgbudget to check them out. That's.

[George Campbell]

Chministries.Orgbudget. Megan is in Tulsa. Up next, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Megan? Hey. All right, so my husband and I are completely debt free except for our house. We still owe about 133,000 on this primary mortgage. But we have purchased land and are planning to build a new home. And in discussions with the lender, they have informed us that after we provided all of our documentation and all of that and the cost breakdown for the build, they said that they were going to require us to take out a second mortgage on our home to ensure that when we sold this primary residence to move into our new home, that we would do a lump sum buy down or pay down on that new construction mortgage, permanent.

[George Campbell]

Mortgage. Okay, so it's risk management on their side. They're trying to protect.

[Caller]

Themselves. Yes. Which I understand that, but I would not do that. Yeah, I don't. I have no interest in doing that. I'm trying.

[George Campbell]

To. You know, is this the lender that you currently have a mortgage.

[Caller]

With?

So. No, but. But they have looked at our finances and one of the things that they told us when. When we first started having this con about this new loan, they said they would love our business for our. So my husband and I own our own business. And when we provided our financials and how much we. Our income and what our business is doing, they said that they wanted to court us to bring their business over to them. Like our. Like we use a different bank for.

[George Campbell]

Our. Run your business through their.

[Caller]

Bank. Yes. And so part of that, I was like, well, that's flattering, but I don't really care what a bank thinks. But. But then in this new conversation yesterday, they said they want a second mortgage and they're going to require us to do banking with.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Them. Walk away. Walk.

[Caller]

Away. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. They're not the only dog in the fight here. Why don't you just shop.

[Caller]

Around?

[George Campbell]

Right. Or can you put pause on this? Because my guess is they're saying this is risky on our part for some.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Reason. Well, here's my real guess, is that y' all talk to a loan officer at some stature in that bank, and they made you a bunch of promises because they get paid on how many accounts they open. And then when your loan went to loan committee, they said, we think this small business is a risk. We don't think these people have enough cash for this. We've had too many people sell their house on a new build and they get their. All the equity, but then they go and go to Paris for two months with that money, like, whatever the thing.

[Caller]

Is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. And so I just want to. Let's pretend everybody's in good faith. The salesman was trying and the loan committee was like, there's no way I'm. I'm putting this through without a whole bunch of.

[George Campbell]

Underwriting. Just got their, you know, their spidey.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Senses. But at the end of the day, I'm not going to do business with somebody that is Going to force me to take out a loan. And like I'm just not going to do that. They're trying to tell you, I.

[Caller]

Mean, I understand mitigating their risk, but I feel like you're going to make money off of my. But my money that I deposit with my.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Business. It's not about that. It's about they're trying to do business at the expense of you and your husband's value set. And I'm not going to do.

[Caller]

That. Right, right. Well, my other question with that is, is that an indication that we have over budgeted what we should.

[George Campbell]

Be? That was what I was trying to get.

[Dr. John Deloney]

At. That's my thought is if they're.

[George Campbell]

Spooked by this, it tells me there's something with these numbers that gives them pause. So that's what I want to ask you. Is the land fully paid off? Did you guys pay cash for.

[Caller]

That? Yeah. So, yes. But like, here's my, here's my, here's what, why this was kind of like a frustrating thing. You know, we have a lot of friends who have been done this, right. Done the same thing and they have had to sell their current home and they like during the construction, you know, a lot of people like live in a rent house during, while the home is being built because they need that money, that equity that it is in their current home or they like you know, put a camper on the land and live there or build a shop and live in the shop while the home is being built or you know, all these different creative options. We were just under the impression that we had enough income and we have enough equity that we weren't going to have to do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That. It sounds like your impression was incorrect. You know what I.

[Caller]

Mean? Well, well now I'm wondering like, I guess I need to shop around.

[George Campbell]

One, what's this new build gonna.

[Caller]

Cost? So our. So that's the other part. My husband is in the construction industry. He's actually a construction owner's rep. He's done mostly commercial work, but he, so he does this for a living. So he is very kind of prides himself on coming in under budget, which is kind of unusual in the construction world. So he has conservatively estimated our build to be 750 with a 7% contingency. And so I'm wondering if we need to just like nail down a more accurate, less conservative and more just like real hard numbers for our.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Build. That, that doesn't, that doesn't matter. I mean they're gonna, they're gonna come through and say, well, that's cool that y' all think that's what that's gonna be, but we're gonna budget for a million. What matters to a bank is how much money are you asking them.

[George Campbell]

To loan, how long are they out for it? Because this construction process, who knows how long it could take? Things fall through all the time with these new.

[Caller]

Builds.

[George Campbell]

Right. And so that there's just a lot more risk with construction loans. And that's why the terms are more stringent. Higher rates, all of that, until you convert it to a traditional loan. And so that might mean, hey, we need a pause in this build. We need to stack up more cash. We need more equity in our home. I'm not sure what that is for you that would make a, you know, construction lender feel more comfortable with this scenario. But I would shop around, and you can always call our friends at Churchill. They'll give you an unbiased third party opinion and go, hey, okay, here's what we think. Here's what we would do. Here's what our current, you know, rates are. And that'll at least give you a better picture of what you're dealing with versus this one lender that you talk.

[Dr. John Deloney]

To. And can I tell you something crazy, that it's not going to be apples to apples, but I think I might be close. I have a PhD in counseling. People from all over the planet seek and ask my opinion on what they should do next in their marriages and their mental health and whatever. My wife does not, she pays a therapist in Nashville that she sees. And why do I tell you that your husband may do this for a living, for other people, it may be worth a handshake and a 5% deal to get another.

[Caller]

GC. Yeah, we've talked about that.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And. And it may not be the. The 10 that GCs normally do, and he may owe somebody a favor and they can high five and whatever, but there's something about being so close to him trying to make his wife's dream home come true on the land and the chickens and the goats and all the stuff you'll have planned that it's going to cloud the reality. And so the greatest gift I can give my wife in our house is not to counsel her.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Ever.

[Caller]

Ever. Actually, that's. That's funny you say that, because that was one of our conversations about a month ago was we either need to hire an employee for our business or we need to hire a builder, because we just have these dreams and plans and we've had the. We've had the blueprints and the arc, you know the drawings ready and he, he, we just keep having so much business, which is fantastic. But he's concerned about having the time to build it. So actually he's the one coming to me saying I have a lot of peace about just hiring someone to do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This. That is a man that rarely exists in the 21st century. Hug him, don't ever let him go and hire.

[George Campbell]

Somebody. That's called self awareness and humility. We need more of.

[Caller]

That. Oh totally. He's, he's all of that. I'm actually the cheapskate trying to save us a buck. Trying to feel like I think we could do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This. Listen, you have married well hire the right subcontractor. It's worth the.

[George Campbell]

10%. What was like what's going to be your tax taxable income for the year from this business for.

[Caller]

2025. So last year it was around 395. And this year we're looking to do about.

[George Campbell]

420.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Incredible. What's that top line or is that take.

[Caller]

Home? That's well that's top. That's top line. But we have a very low overhead business. I mean we basically use gas and computer software.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Stuff. Yeah, but y' all are depreciating out all of your trucks and your computers and all your equipment.

[Caller]

Right? No, I mean. Well yeah, we have two.

Laptops. And what would you, would you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Pay taxes on last year? The.

[Caller]

Amount? 3.

[George Campbell]

95.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. They'd give you a million.

[George Campbell]

Dollars. What's your current house.

[Caller]

Worth?

[George Campbell]

350. Okay. So you have only a decent amount of equity here. But this money I feel like is newer to you guys. And so therefore the banks are still like hey, there's not like you don't have a half million dollars in.

[Caller]

Equity.

[George Campbell]

So. So to go 750 is a big.

[Caller]

Number. We only owe, we only owe 133 left on our primary and our plan was to just pay this off. Yeah, but while we were.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Building. But, but if you're, if you're going with to, to meet with a bank and your husband's a surgeon and you're a surgeon, they're going to say cool. We see a projection here. If you all are a small business that does construction, you may do 400 top line one year and 75 top line next year. Cuz that's more like a farming. It's like great years, tough years, great years, tough years. They're going to be possibly more conservative. Conservative about what they loan you.

[George Campbell]

Out yeah, but I would call our friends at Churchill Mortgage and get a third party opinion from them. I think you'll have a lot more clarity after.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

That.

[George Campbell]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

Isaac? H.

[Caller]

Town. How you doing, guys? Yeah, I'm Isaac. I'm 20 years old and I just got engaged about two weeks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ago.

[George Campbell]

Congratulations. Right.

[Caller]

On. Yeah. So I just, this is more.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Of.

[Caller]

A emotional, spiritual question, I guess than the financial one. But so my parents, they're, they're divorced and I think they're very smart people, but they're kind of against me getting married. And I like, I like to, you know, talk to them, take their advice on a lot of things, but I just don't know about this one. They kind of don't want me to get married with, with the person I am.

With. And.

[George Campbell]

It'S. What's at the root of this? Is it your age or is it the person that you are engaged to? They, they don't see them as a long term quality or they just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Both went through hell during their divorce and they just, they don't want anyone to ever do that ever.

[Caller]

Again. So, so it's my age. And what Dr. John just said, you know, it's, it's partly they think I'm too young and partly because they've been through their own experiences, they think.

[George Campbell]

It'S a riskier bet to get married this young to this.

[Caller]

Person.

[George Campbell]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. How old are.

[Caller]

You? I am 20 years old. I turned 20 this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

October. Okay. And so tell me man, tell me in George, why do you want to get married? Why is this person, the person you're going to be ride or die with for the rest of your.

[Caller]

Life? Well, we, we've been living together already for about six months and I know it goes against your guys advice, but. Yeah, that's what we've been.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Doing. Yeah, but that's like six months that you didn't answer my question. You just told me a thing you're doing. Why do you want this person to be your ride or die for the rest of your life till death do you.

[Caller]

Part? Well, she's just a great person. She takes care of me well. She's, you know, very, you know, even though we're not married, she's been acting like a, like a really great wife and it's just a person I see in my.

[George Campbell]

Future. How long has been.

[Caller]

Together? About two years. It's been a little over two.

[George Campbell]

Years. And how old is.

[Caller]

She? She's about to turn.

[George Campbell]

21. Okay, and do you guys have any. You just got engaged. When do you plan on getting married? How long is this engagement gonna.

[Caller]

Be? Not too long. We wanted to get married before the end of the year.

[George Campbell]

Actually. What's the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Rush? What's the.

[Caller]

Rush? Not necessarily any rush. It's just we've already been together like we've been living together and we kind of wanted to already like, you know, be together and we kind of. It seems to me that we've already kind of been engaged, but not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Really. But so here's, here's several things I'll throw at you, okay? And I'm in the middle of working on a multi year project on this question. Is marriage still worth it?

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And here's what I'll tell you. The date is pretty clear. And I know there's some conversations about causal versus correlation, yada yada. Couples who are in good or great marriages, every facet of their life is better financially, health wise, emotionally, their kids, kids who grow up in the home of married parents whose. And they're actually broken the data down from married to cohabitating, all of it. Everything in your life, you'll have more sex. Everything in your life will be better. And if you are married not well or poorly, every part of your life is worse. Okay? So it's one of those things that I feel myself screaming from the rooftops. Everyone needs to do this thing and do it well. And we have a culture that has sold us that the worst thing we can do is limit our options. And I Would say the freedom that most people are chasing when it comes to getting money, getting fame, getting seen, having, quote, unquote, a bunch of options is found in commitment, but only in commitment Done. Well, why am I telling you all that? Your parents lived experience is real. Their health was ripped apart. Their psychology was ripped apart. Their. Their money was ripped apart. They watched their kids get splintered up. Their experience is real. And so when they tell you, you shouldn't do this thing because we tried it and it blew up our home, that's a real experience. And I want to honor that. And I want to tell you that I hope for your sake, for your kids sake, for your wife's sake, for the world. My kids are growing in, in a. I wish more people like you would have a mind towards being married. Okay. And figuring out how to do this thing well.

[Caller]

Okay. Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sir. I will tell you this. You have a very limited toolkit right now. And if you think being married is. Well, we just kind of feels that way, and we've been six months. You are going to get smacked right in the nose by reality if you go into this thing saying, we're going to need help from every loving adult in our life on how to do this thing well. And I'm gonna have to learn new skills. I'm gonna have to learn how to say I'm sorry. I'm gonna understand that five years from now, I'll be married to a totally different woman and she'll be married to a different man because we're going to grow. If you can go into it that way and seek intensive premarital counseling, to have conversations about budgets, etc, then I would say, if my 21. If my son was 21, he came home and said, dad, I met the person five years ago. I would have said, bro, don't do this. Wait till you're 25. Live a little. What? I would change my tune now after. Look, living it, looking all the data, I would say this is the greatest, most important decision you're gonna make. I will support you every step of the way, but you have to go into it very humbly. Okay? So I think your parents are right and I want you to do this thing. You get what I'm saying? Both are.

[Caller]

True. Yes.

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So tell me. I think it's. I. I would tell you just as a guy who just met you, I think this is too fast to try to cram us in before the beginning of the year. Only because you're telling me. Well, it just feels like we've Already been doing it, so we might as well. That's a terrible reason to enter into a lifelong till death do us part right at eye.

[Caller]

Commitment. Yeah. What I'd like to add to that is I was thinking about it already for a longer time, you know, even before we moved in together. But I was, you know, I had. I've lived with my parents and my whole life they've been telling me, you know, that marriage is a scary thing. So I was scared of it for a long time and. And you know, I just kept listening to your guys.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Show. I know, but listen to me. Listen to.

[Caller]

Me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sorry. Just because your dad was a boxer and he got knocked out and told you to be scared of boxing. Just because you suddenly think I'm not scared of boxing anymore does not mean you should get in the ring without a bunch of.

[Caller]

Skills.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay? I would love to see you. I'm glad that you're interested in getting in the fight. I need more men getting in the fight, but I also need more men to get in the. In the fight with skills. I would much rather see you say, I want to formally propose to you and we're going to get married in June, and we're going to start premarital counseling January.

[Caller]

2Nd.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So that we're on the same money, on the same page with our money, with our values, with our whatever, we begin having those hard conversations. Because here's what you're gonna have to do. You're gonna have to do marriage totally different than your parents did. And that's going to be a challenge. Because when you open, when you get the first fight, when you get the first lost job, you get the first car that breaks down in the middle of, you know, of the beltway there in Houston, you're going to open your toolkit. And the tools in there are going to be the ones your parents put in there by their.

[Caller]

Marriage.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay? You get what I'm.

[Caller]

Saying? Yes.

[George Campbell]

Sir. So, Isaac, it's less about a specific age. It's about alignment on values. And the truth is, at from 18 to 22, I didn't know my values. I didn't know myself. And so that's the part that we're encouraging you to dig into for yourself and for her to make sure that you're aligned on family, kids, in laws, you know, whatever it is, politics, how are we going to raise. What are all the decisions and the filters we're going to use to do this? Because that's the part where it's going to bite you in the butt. Down the line to go, oops. She. I just like the PB&J she made me. I never thought to ask about X, Y, Z over here. And in the early stages of any relationship, man, it is just gumdrops and rainbows. I remember I didn't fight with my wife for like the first year and a half we were together and I was like, this is a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Match. My wife and I barely made it two and a half weeks before we were like, yeah, we screwed this up. Like, so every couple's different. But, but as, as George said, I think even beneath. Are we aligned on politics? Whatever. My wife and I aren't. We're not aligned. We, we go to the same church but we have different beliefs about stuff. And I think that's awesome. It took me 15 years to learn how to share a home with somebody that we had the same values but we had different beliefs. And so I want you to get in and you start learning some of those skills and go into this thing humbly. So, yeah, I hope you get married, dude. I really hope you do. And I hope you go change your whole family tree. And before you do that, hope you get a bunch of skills along.

[George Campbell]

The way and a lot of premarital counseling. I'm going to gift you Financial Peace University to help you with the money side. That's some of the best premarital counseling you can get when it comes to finances. So hang a line. That's our gift to you. The last thing you need this holiday season is more stuff collecting dust or tech that keeps you glued to screens and up too late. You need better sleep and that's what you'll get with Casper. Their mattresses are made for deep, uninterrupted rest that keep you cool and comfortable so you wake up feeling ready, not wrecked. Because rest is not a luxury, it's an investment. And the ROI is your well being. So go to Casper.com Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses and 10% off everything else. You get free shipping too. That's Casper.com Ramsey promo code Ramsey exclusions apply. Foreign. Of the Day is brought to you by WireFi. Defaulted private student loans don't just disappear, but you can take back control. Y Refi offers low fixed rate refinancing that gives you hope and a clear path forward. Go to yrefi.comramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y r e f y.com Ramsey not available in all.

[Dr. John Deloney]

States. Today's question comes from Marissa in Illinois. Marissa writes, I'm a stay at home mom and love having that role in our home. But in our marriage, the root of all of our arguments and problems is money. I'll admit it. I like nice clothes, makeup, shoes and purses. I love going out and getting coffee. We own our home but want to make some renovations. And my spending has gotten in the way of making that a reality. I've always been a spender, and before I got married, my dad would put money in my account when I didn't have any. My husband would like to keep my personal expenses under. Jeez. My husband would like me to keep my personal expenses under $2500 a month. And I know it's doable, but why is this so hard for.

[Caller]

Me?

[George Campbell]

Wow. I, I see two things here. One is an addiction, and the second is enabling from dad. And now she's putting that on the husband. This is your role now to put the money in my.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Bank. I don't see it as much as her. She's saying, like, my husband's given me a reasonable allowance of.

[George Campbell]

2500. He seems like he's very level. He's going, well, can you do it under 2500? And she's like, we'll.

[Dr. John Deloney]

See. I'll. I think.

[George Campbell]

So. That's some people's entire budget, all of their expenses, they fit under.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That. Yeah. So I. Marissa, my tone, my, my, my tune has changed on this the last few years. I. Four years ago, if you'd asked me this question, I would have thought it very important to dig into the root of your spending addiction, the root of your why you can't keep a budget, why you are struggling financially and you're having disagreements, except you keep spending money on purses and shoes and things like that. I'm changing my tune on that. I think if you want to make a behavior change like this, the best way right now for you is to act your way into changing your life. What do I mean by that? Before you get an answer to quote, unquote, why is this so hard for me? Stop spending money. And what do I mean by that? Get rid of your debit card, hide it, put it in a safe, give it to your husband, tell him to take it to the, to the office, but stop spending money. And when you feel that discomfort, feel it and have one or two things that you promise yourself. Make a commitment that you're going to go do. When you feel that discomfort, when you begin to say, I need to go buy some shoes, you don't. You got all the shoes you need. I'm gonna go for a walk. I'm gonna go call a friend. I'm gonna have a set of actions that I go do. Because I'm finding people, George, who spin all of their time. Why? Why? Why? I need to go see another therapist for five years. I need to go do another personality exam. I need to go to another silent retreat. And all that, all that stuff's good. But it's one year, two year, five years, seven years. And the same behaviors are just hanging around. And I'm becoming more and more convinced both through the data and just walking with people the last four or five years. The greatest gift you can give your body is the lived expense of A, I didn't spend any money last month and I didn't die. B, I didn't spend any money the last six months. I say any money. You know what I mean? I didn't buy any new shoes, any new purses, any new guns, any new whatever. And I've had to deal with the root of that issue and that's worth spending the money on for various things. So if you have a chemical addiction, obviously you got to go to rehab or whatever. But Marissa, I want you to put up some insanely high hurdles that make it borderline impossible for you to spend money right now. Have that level of discipline means.

[George Campbell]

Deleting the apps off your phone, removing the card info phone and get rid.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Of the phone, get a flip phone. I'm talking about being cost.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I'm guessing a lot of this is happening while.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Scrolling.

[George Campbell]

Yes. And so that's. That could solve a whole lot of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Problems. Create some rhythms and routines where you go hang out with other stay at home moms throughout the week. So you're not just sitting at home in a box by yourself, scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. But yeah, if it means getting a flip phone, get a flip phone. And if you find yourself like, oh, if I don't have social media, I got no human or AI interaction at all. Great. Then that's the tensions, that doorway. Go into that tension and go find some friends. But you have to put some serious hurdles in front of you so that it purifies what the real problem is. It distills it down and now I gotta go solve.

[George Campbell]

That.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. My guess here is she's like you mentioned, dad always solved it and she's probably incredibly lonely. Would be my experience. Would be my.

[George Campbell]

Guess. Yeah. There's a root cause of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All. Another thing out there is going to make.

[George Campbell]

Me. It's like, why another.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Outfit?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Because on My wife stays at home. She wishes that she could even have the time or energy to put on clothes and go somewhere like, nice clothes, full makeup, the purse, the shoes. So this is impressive enough that she's had. Can accomplish this. But. But the budget is going to be the key here because you guys clearly don't have one. Because you're saying, hey, my spending is stopping us from saving up for renovations. Well, the makeup money should not be renovation money. We need to separate all this out in a budget. You can download every dollar and make a line item for Marissa that says $2,000. Marissa, fun money, whatever. If you guys make 20 grand and that's how you want to spend your money, go for it. But then we need another line item for renovation, sinking fund. And we put $2,000 a month into that account. So there's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

24. I would say the first three months, make that $200. Really extra cup of.

[George Campbell]

Coffee.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Right. And really challenge yourself on what is this drive that I have to fix this momentary feeling of I'm not enough or I'm bored or I'm scared and I'm gonna go buy something. Click, buy, click, buy, click, buy, click. Because she's. She's already moved on before the shoes even arrive. Oh, yeah.

[George Campbell]

Right. Because it's not about. She didn't actually want that pair of shoes. It was a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dopamine. Build up the build to build, to build the build. And then.

[George Campbell]

Boom. If a box doesn't show up at the door, I. I can't feel anything that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Day. Well, I don't even think this is about the box showing up. I think it's about hitting the button.

[George Campbell]

The. Ah, all of it. The whole.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Experience.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Oh, my.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Goodness. Put some really high hurdles in front of.

[George Campbell]

Yourself. Yeah. And for anyone working the baby steps who wants to hit their money goals, every dollar is the best tool to do it. You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that will help you free up more money to work the plan even faster. You can start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Danielle is in Vancouver. Up next. What's going on, Danielle? How can we help.

[Caller]

Today? Hi. I'm super nervous, but my question is, are we foolish to consider moving provinces for what we would consider a good financial gain and freedom to do the things as a.

[George Campbell]

Family? Now that's a pretty good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Pitch. Sounds awesome. What are we.

[Caller]

Missing? Okay, so my family is here. Most of them. And so we would be leaving my family and actually my husband's family here. For a province where we have friends but no.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Family, for some people that would be the greatest, healthiest thing to do. And for some people, that would be a nightmare. So you have to ask yourself.

[Caller]

That. Yes. And I feel like we're. My husband's good to go. It's me. I come from a really big family and we've.

[George Campbell]

Had. How far.

[Caller]

Away? My siblings are here, so it beats you to.

[George Campbell]

Alberta. Okay, what's the, like, what's the driving.

[Caller]

Distance? Oh, if you were to visit, 10 to 12.

[George Campbell]

Hours.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. That's how far it is two.

[George Campbell]

Or three times a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Year. Yeah. And when we moved from. My whole family and my wife's whole family live in Texas. All of them. And so when we moved across the country to Nashville, across the US To Nashville, we built into our life. For this to work for us, we've got to have this many trips back a year and we have to save that amount of.

[Caller]

Money. Right. That, and that is something that I have put in there with my husband that we would want. We would want to.

[George Campbell]

Do. Okay, what's your.

[Caller]

Question? So do we pull the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Trigger? You've got to be a big kid on this.

[George Campbell]

One. What are the implications here? I mean, are jobs, housing, like, what's. What, what's going to.

[Caller]

Change? So it's cheaper. So job wise. My husband's a nurse and I'm currently not working. We just had a baby last year, but I'm currently not working and I would not be able to do my job full time. I'd have to drop down to casual or part.

Time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Do you need the family support around your new.

[Caller]

Baby? Well, in order for me to work full time, yes. Or we would have to have a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Nanny. Okay. Can I throw this at.

[Caller]

You?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Anytime I'm faced between an either or decision, I always force myself to put three or four new options on the table. Just for fun, can I throw a third option for.

[Caller]

You?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. What if y' all just made a 24 month agreement, we're gonna try this. A 12 month agreement. He's a nurse. He could easily get a job back in the old province. Y' all could get another place back in the old province. You'll be fine. You're making this into a forever move. And that the weight of that decision is daunting. What if you just said, all right, let's, let's go do it for 12 months, let's try that. That's just, that's just a.

[George Campbell]

Thought. It's reversible, it's not fatal. So go for it. And if you hate it, you can always come back home. And so I would sit down, make the budget, make sure the numbers make make.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sense. Every decision comes at a cost. You're going to lose some stuff, you're going to gain some.

[George Campbell]

Stuff. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, just joined by my co host, Dr. John Deloney. The number to call is Triple 882-55-2225. If you want to join the show, Kenna is in Denver. Up next, what's going on?

[Caller]

Kenna? Hi there. I just have a question, looking for some advice. Should I prioritize going to school now if I ultimately want to be a stay at home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Mom? How old is, how old are you now? What does now.

[Caller]

Mean? I am 24. I just got married a couple months.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ago.

[Caller]

Congratulations. Have a bachelor. Thank you. I do have a bachelor's degree already and I was planning on going to physician assistant school, but. But now after just talking and the expense of that versus something else like nursing is kind of where I'm going down with the route I'm going down.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now. So let me ask you a crazy question. Can you afford nursing school right.

[Caller]

Now?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay. I think.

[George Campbell]

So. Afford as in you could cash flow the whole thing without delaying or derailing other financial.

[Caller]

Goals? Yeah, that's, it's, I guess that's kind of where I'm like stuck because my husband does have some student loan debt as well. From undergraduate, he has about 40,000 because we have about 40,000. But I could go to nursing for about 40.

[Dr. John Deloney]

20,000. I would. This is me and George may disagree. So this is just me. I would do.

[Caller]

That. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And what is the upside for you? What got you thinking, man? I really want to go back to school, pursue.

[Caller]

This. Yeah. Just I always imagine myself doing something more. I wish I would have gotten a nursing degree before, but that's neither here nor there. I just want to do more. I'm a medical assistant now. I just want to be more involved with patient care. And of course I do want to be a stay at home mom. But then eventually the kids are going to be gone and that part of our life is going to be over in terms of them being in the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

House. I've spent my career working with some of the most amazing, brilliant women in the.

[Caller]

World.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And I have been stunned by women who I figured I would be working for or I was working for. Right. Or about to. And suddenly they're like, no Dude, I had a baby. I'm out of here. And I'm like.

[George Campbell]

What?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Really? And I've been stunned by the people who are lifelong dedicated. I'm gonna stay at home, mom. Stay at home, mom. And they're at home six months and they're like, I, no, not for.

[Caller]

Me. Right. That's what I worry about for sure too. Because of course, I don't know that life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yet. And can I give you one other ugly, like, just reality just because you called me. Is that.

[Caller]

Cool?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Definitely. My wife and I had some very clear plans on having a family. And my son took three and a half years, followed by miscarriage. One, two, three. And then my daughter came. And so we had very clear plans. We got our doctorate degrees, we had our careers, and then we were going to start doing this next thing. And it did not work on our timeline.

[Caller]

Line. Right. I worry about that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Too. And I would love for you to do the next right thing for you right now in this season and keep your amazing options and plans open. And if you want to be a stay at home mom, you need to get your student loans paid off. You got a cash flow nursing school. You got to do that stuff in the right way so you can prepare for a life with one income because that's your values. And also, at the same time, be honest about it may not happen on our.

[Caller]

Timeline.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. Or it may happen.

[George Campbell]

Tomorrow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. Like, but I don't want you to wake up in 10 years and say, I've been waiting for this thing to happen.

[Caller]

Right. Yeah, totally. And I guess, yeah, that, that waiting, it's like either wait to have a family or wait to go to school. And that's, that's kind of where I'm.

[George Campbell]

At. Like, what's your current total debt load right.

[Caller]

Now? Total Debt load is.

40,000. That's all student.

[George Campbell]

Loans. Is that including his.

[Caller]

Though? That is, yeah. That's only his. I don't have any student.

[George Campbell]

Loans. Okay. I'm just wondering you cleaned up your. If you almost planned, like, hey, I'm. We want to plan to have a family in the next year or two. We're going to plan to just kind of get a clean slate financially. We're going to work on knocking out his debt. I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing versus going further, you know, in the hole or trying to cash flow this while keeping the debt around. And then you get down the path and you go, okay, now I want to stay at home. But now we're too deep in this. So I just don't want to get to a point where this weird crossroads and you have to give one thing up for the.

[Caller]

Other. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the other part to it is that we did get some wedding money and we are able to save my entire paycheck. We do have enough money to pay off the loans. Cash. Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now. Do it today.

[Caller]

Today.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Because what you're calling about is I want options. And becoming debt free faster is going to give you more.

[Caller]

Options.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Not holding on to the money for when some random day.

[Caller]

Comes. Not doing anything.

[George Campbell]

Now. Because if you free up that debt, well, now we can cash flow and save up 20 grand to cover this program pretty quickly, couldn't.

[Caller]

We? Right? Yeah. Yeah, we. Yeah, it.

[George Campbell]

Would. And then how long is the.

[Caller]

Program? It's 24.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Months. It'd be two years. And this is one of those crazy, like, things that people don't think about. If you have a nursing degree and you choose to stay home, you know who the greatest beneficiary of that degree in the world would be? That new.

[Caller]

Baby.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. You don't know drama until you saw me see a rash for the first time. And I was like, oh, this is.

[Caller]

It. Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. And I was the one calling my buddies who. Who are doctors and nurses and in the middle of the night being like, my kid, and they're like, oh, God, go to bed. You're an idiot.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So that's a skill set that won't be wasted if you use it for your friends and family or if you use it professionally. It's an amazing skill.

[Caller]

Set. Right, Right. And it seems. It just seems. I don't know. I'm convincing myself more and more every day that it's better over, you know, pa. You can make more money eventually, but the debt load is so huge, and I just don't think it's right for where we're at right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now. I love that.

[George Campbell]

Thinking. And there's. It's not like you can't go pursue this two years from now. Now it's not going to disappear as an.

[Caller]

Option.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And I think you'll have a lot more clarity two years from now. So there's nothing wrong with delaying it. I'm. I'm sort of team. Let's delay it. If you're gung ho on, hey, we want to try to have a family.

[Caller]

Now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. And I have a lived experience of let's do have a. Like, George had a baby. I don't want to be weird. They got pregnant fast. We did not right. And so my plan just didn't. Wasn't in the cards for a.

[Caller]

While.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. And also, you can get a year, you can get a semester of nursing school in that you've paid for in cash and then take a leave of absence to have a baby. That's no big.

[Caller]

Deal. That's true. I hadn't thought about that.

[George Campbell]

Either. So here's the crux of it. Whether you delay it, whether you do it now, I would get out of debt completely and only do this if you're going to cash flow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It.

[George Campbell]

Yes. Put yourselves in a good financial position to where you have options and you have less risk, less stress, because that's always going to help you think more clearly and make the right decision for your family versus, well, we can't do this because we owe people money or we don't have the.

[Caller]

Savings. Yeah. And that's like my ultimate fear is like, everything's open right now. And as soon as you have so much debt, it's like, oh, I actually can't exactly do the things I want to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Right. Well, we can't make the decision for you, but I have full faith that Ken is going to make the right one for her and her family when that time comes. And John, this is. I mean, it's just so. It's never been more clear to me that debt reduces your.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Options. Yeah. And there's. I. I've sat with hobbing moms who are pregnant who have to go back to work and they don't. They didn't want to, but they owe somebody money. And I've also sat with people who are like, we can kind of do whatever we want. So we're do this for a while. I'm gonna try that. I'm gonna try this. And that just felt like.

[George Campbell]

Freedom. Oh, yeah. Well, people made fun of us. They're like, why would you pay off your low interest mortgage early? And then my wife decided to stay home and went. That's why. It wasn't a financial decision. It was just an emotional one. Yeah. And that's, that's one of the most beautiful things in life when you can take the financial burden off the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Table and then you can kind of do what you want for a.

[George Campbell]

While. That's invincibility right.

[Caller]

There.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[George Campbell]

Today. John is in Minneapolis. Up next, John, welcome to the Ramsey.

[Caller]

Show. Hey, how you guys doing.

[George Campbell]

Man? Doing great. How can we help.

[Caller]

Today? Good. I'm So, I am 20 year old, like you said. I'm, I'm in Minnesota. I need some advice. I've got a good amount of money saved up in a Roth IRA that I'm looking to invest and I.

[George Campbell]

Saved up in a Roth ira. You're looking to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Invest. So it's.

[George Campbell]

Invested. Is it in like I'm on the money market side, like in, in a cash equivalent or is it actually.

[Caller]

Invested? Mostly it's just cash. There's a few thousand invested into it. My mom has been helping me do that because she's very knowledgeable about the stock market. So she's invested a few thousand. I'm not exactly sure where. But my plan that I'm wondering is, is it wise to invest the majority or all of it just into the S&P 500 since that's a historically great return, or is it wiser to go more diverse with.

[George Campbell]

It? I mean, that diversity is pretty strong. You got 500 of the top companies that you're diversified across. Now. It's weighted, so it's not like there's one in each. Apple's going to have more than a smaller company. But yeah, The S&P 500 historically has delivered about a 10 to 12% average rate of return over the last several decades. And so do you need to diversify more than that? You know, our recommendation is across four mutual fund types. And this is largely what you'll find in an S&P 500 fund is you want growth, aggressive growth, growth in income and international. And that basically means conservative, midway more aggressive. And then we've got the international companies out there. And you're going to find a lot of that already in the S P500. So you could do a whole lot worse than doing that if you just did that. You're going to be a multi millionaire if you consistently invest in that at the age of.

[Caller]

20. Exactly what I want to do, you know, because I, I do max it out every year. I have been since I was 15, I.

[George Campbell]

Think. What's your.

[Caller]

Income? Well, you know, it varies. I'm a business owner and I, you know, currently I don't work regular job, so the, the income can vary, but it's always been enough for me.

[George Campbell]

To contribute that at 15, how did you max out a Roth.

[Caller]

IRA? I worked at a.

[George Campbell]

Restaurant. Like a custodial Roth that your parents had set.

[Caller]

Up? It was, yeah. My mom is very helpful with helping me get my money, you know, as it should be. She was very adamant about that from a young age for.

[George Campbell]

Me. So do you make over, do you make $100,000? Give me a ballpark here of what you think you'll make. 20, 25. What will your taxable, taxable income.

[Caller]

Be? If I had to guess, I mean, I am aiming for it to be around $100,000. There's no, there's no guarantee yet. I run a landscaping.

[George Campbell]

Business. So do you invest outside of the Roth IRA or do you just. My goal is to max that out and then I'm done investing for the.

[Caller]

Year. Well, I don't like to overcomplicate things. So personally I would prefer to just have one source. So have the Roth be my investment and then the rest have of my money is money I can spend on whatever put back into the business, et.

[George Campbell]

Cetera. Okay, do you have any debt right.

[Caller]

Now? No.

[George Campbell]

Sir. Okay, wonderful. And how much do you have in savings? How much do you have that's more liquid, that's not.

[Caller]

Invested? I have just, just over.

[George Campbell]

30,000. Way to go, dude. You're crushing.

[Caller]

It. Thank.

[George Campbell]

You. So you would be in what we call baby step four. You're completely debt free, you have a fully funded emergency fund, and now you're able to invest 15% of your income. So let's say you made a hundred thousand. For easy numbers, we would say invest 15% of that into tax advantaged retirement accounts. So 7,000 is the contribution limit for the year. So what happens after that? What you're telling me is I just sort of do what I want with the.

[Caller]

Rest? Exactly. I mean, you know, I don't like to be a big spender. I'm not good buying things I don't need. I mean, I do spend a decent amount of money a month on a credit card, which I pay off every month. But most of this is gas and it's business related or it's food. So, you know, basic.

[George Campbell]

Things. Do you live with your family right.

[Caller]

Now? Fortunately, yes, I live with my dad and that allows me to be able to save this.

[George Campbell]

Money. What's the long term game plan? Are you going to continue running the landscape business into your 20s.

[Caller]

30S? Yeah, exactly. So ideally, yes. I haven't written out a specific plan which I should, but in the next couple years I'm looking to grow it like I have been and eventually get my own place. But I'm kind of, it's like with the, with the investing, I'm willing to invest all of that money in, in the Roth ira, you know, because.

[George Campbell]

That'S, I'm telling you, John, you can't. There's contribution limits. So what I'm telling you is once you go above and beyond that, you can find there's other avenues to invest in a tax advantage retirement account. One would be something like a Solo 401K. You could open that as a business owner if you're the only employee. And so there's other options I want to encourage you to invest in so that you can build more wealth versus just going, well, I'm going to do the Roth and that's it. And so I'm going to get you a investing guide is completely free. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com guide and download that because right now I see a guy who works really hard who has a great savings muscle but doesn't have a lot of clarity on what he's doing and why he's doing it. And I don't want you to invest in things you don't understand. And while I love that your mom has this knowledge, you need to build this knowledge for yourself. And so that would be my next step for you as a guy who has a bunch of money and wants to put it somewhere that it's going to work for.

[Caller]

Him. Okay, I will do.

[George Campbell]

That. Yeah, keep it up, man. If you keep living debt free and you keep maxing out a Roth ira even just doing that, go pop it into our investment calculator on our website. You will, your mind will be boggled by that. Mike is in Chicago. Up next. What's going on?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Mike?

[Caller]

Hey. Yeah, I was wondering, I work 116 hours a week and I was.

[George Campbell]

Wondering if there's that many hours.

[Caller]

What? Yes. Machine up. I'm a machine.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Operator.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Is that safe to run the machines also? Like, aren't there like legal boundaries.

[Caller]

Around that we're not on the road or Any cdl. So, okay, we're in a. We're private.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Property. All right, so what's your question, dude? Yeah, Private property. We could do what we want. America, George. Geez, let my go. All right, so what's the question.

[Caller]

Mike? My question is I want to make more money than I'm making now, but I don't really have time for side.

[George Campbell]

Hustles. What do you. What are you.

[Caller]

Making this year? So far, I'm at roughly.

[George Campbell]

273,000. Okay, and what. What was the impetus for you saying I need more.

[Caller]

Money? I'm a collector. So, like, I mean, I collect a lot of stuff. Comic books, trading cards, cars, autograph stuff. And so, I mean, historic.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Antiques. Here's what you have to do. Like, you know the answer to this because you're smart, you have to do a different job that you think is going to make you more than $273,000. There's not a secret.

[George Campbell]

Here. And also, is this sustainable to be working over 100 hours a week? Because if so, your income is going to drastically go down while your lifestyle has. Is going to stay high. So I think we need to reset the picture here and go, what can I do for 40 or 50 hours a week that's sustainable, that pays me enough to live the life I want to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Live? And by the way, if your life is going to be judged on. If you judge your life on how many trinkets you have surrounding you, it's going to be a miserable.

[Caller]

Life. Yeah. I mean, it's.

[George Campbell]

Just. So what do you make? Do you get paid hourly right now, or is it salary hourly? Okay, what do you make per.

[Caller]

Hour? Was it 34.

[Dr. John Deloney]

32. But I mean, this means you're getting. What are you getting, 80 hours a week of. Of.

[Caller]

Overtime? Just roughly, I think, what, 75 and a half?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. So instead of making 32, I'm going, what. What kind of job in the field that I'm in pays 60 an hour or 90 an hour? That way I can work 40 hours a week and live to tell the tale, to actually enjoy all these trinkets I've.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Collected. Or here's another crazy idea. What if, and this is gonna be a struggle, you somehow survived on $200,000 a year, and you just stopped buying so many Pokemon.

[George Campbell]

Cards. Yeah, I don't think we need more money, Mike. I think we need to reevaluate our.

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[George Campbell]

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[Caller]

Karen? This call will be.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Recorded. Oh.

[George Campbell]

Good. Karen, thanks for recording. We put this on.

[Dr. John Deloney]

YouTube. Yeah, we're recording.

[George Campbell]

It. You can check this out for.

[Caller]

Eternity.

[George Campbell]

Hi. We're also recording for quality assurance.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Purpose. That's.

[Caller]

Right. Yeah. Well, and honestly, I use this to reference back to you guys, if that's okay with.

[George Campbell]

You. Oh.

[Caller]

Absolutely. All right, Wonderful. I am just shy of 62 years old. I am legally separated from my husband with no chance of it changing. I do not have a retirement. I do not have a pension or anything like that. I make roughly $42,000 a year. The only thing that I am in debt for is a mortgage. And I have not invested in my work for a 1k plan because, to be honest with you, I'm scared to death about doing it because I know nothing about it. And they will match up to 3% of what I put in. So this is open enrollment time. And I'm going to invest in 3%. So I can get their 3%, because I figured that's free money to go towards that. But I also want to get my mortgage down in about 12 years, if at all.

[George Campbell]

Possible. What's left on the.

[Caller]

Mortgage? Oh, almost all of.

[George Campbell]

It. How much is.

[Caller]

That? Yeah, it started at 80 and I am down to 77.

[George Campbell]

5. Okay. And a current rate I've only.

[Caller]

Been. I've only been paying on it since.

[George Campbell]

July. Okay. And Was this a 30 year or.

[Caller]

15? A.

[George Campbell]

30. Okay. So at the current rate you're paying, it'll take 30 years to pay this.

[Caller]

Off? Well, no, not at the rate I'm going because I'm paying extra on it at every chance I get. So I paid. I've paid an extra 2,000 on it so far in the six months that I've had.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It. Let me ask you this question before George digs into your numbers. Do you have any sort of financial reconciliation as a part of the.

[Caller]

Separation?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No. Why.

[Caller]

Not? I would. Because he ruined his business. There was just. There was nothing there. Nothing there. We'd only been married at the time for nine and a half years. So when I went into the relationship, I walked in with him, his home that he priorly prior.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Owned.

[Caller]

Okay. What I did get when I left was two mobile homes that I lived in, one for a short time, and I rented out the other.

[Dr. John Deloney]

One.

[Caller]

Okay. But with the way people are nowadays, I ended up. I ended up selling both of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Those.

[Caller]

Good. So I have $25,000 in my high yield savings.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Account.

[Caller]

Wonderful. Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now.

[Caller]

Okay. So. And I don't touch that at.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All. Okay. George will tell you what to do with that money. But this is good. That's. That's good.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So how can we specifically help you today? What's the main.

[Caller]

Question? I don't know what to invest in with this 401k or if I should take that money and just put it onto my mortgage to get it down.

[George Campbell]

Sooner. Well, you would be in what we call baby step four. So you're out of debt, you have money in savings for emergencies. So you're ready to invest 15% of your income into retirement. So 15% of your $42,000 salary.

[Caller]

Correct? Yeah. I don't know if I can afford.

[George Campbell]

15%. Well, you're putting extra on the mortgage right now. Could we divert some of that towards.

[Caller]

Investing? I could, but then that's going to slow me down to get my mortgage paid.

[George Campbell]

Off. Okay, well, here's the thing. If you invest nothing, you're going to have nothing. So we're trying to get you to a spot where you at least have a little nest egg growing for you with some compound growth. Now, we don't have a lot of time on our side anymore, but we're going to try to get this mortgage paid off with anything above and beyond that 15%. But I would not tell you to just put everything on the mortgage you can and don't invest a dime because at the end of the day. Yeah, then you're gonna have no nest egg and no mortgage payment, which is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

75. And selling your.

[George Campbell]

House.

[Caller]

Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Even though I got it into a high yield savings, which I only.

[George Campbell]

Earned. You'll keep up with an. You'll keep up with inflation if you're lucky. And so your, your buying power is getting lost every day. So the high yield savings at least keeps up with that. But you need to rise above and beyond that in order to actually have wealth, to order to have some extra money, to have your money make money. And so that 401k, it's, it's going to be time to learn what funds are in that 401k and which ones are right for you. And for that, I would get connected with a smartvestor pro who can sit down with you and walk you through those options and guide you towards doing something that you've never done before, which is understand what you're investing into. I don't want you blindly picking something because someone told you to. I want you to fully understand, oh, this is what this fund is for. Here's why I'm investing in.

[Caller]

It.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And as a primer on that, you can get our free Investing [e-mail] guide and that will at least give you some basic information about our retirement investing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Strategy. But here's a.

[George Campbell]

Bummer. Picture of retirement is going to look.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Different. Yeah. And here's a bummer of this is just us being honest with you because we love you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. It may be that at 62, while you're still in good health and your mobility's still okay, $42,000 isn't going to cut. May be that I'm working this.

[Caller]

Full. Isn't going to cut.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It. That means that if you look at the math problem that is your life. And this is, this is taking feelings off the table. This is taking heartbreak off the table. This is just looking at the math.

[Caller]

Problem.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. If you need $500,000 to retire when you're 75, it may be that.

[Caller]

You. Yeah, well, I doubt that's gonna happen. Well, you'll surprise yourself till the day I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Die. Well, but, but it may be that why you can still fly around a little bit at a young, sprightly 62. It may be that you make 42 grand and you work another side job on, on the.

[Caller]

Weekends. Well, and actually I am working on a side hustle right now to get that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Started. Okay. Beside, hustle might mean you're investing money into a thing, you're spending money and it becomes a hobby. And you're going to look up in two years like you don't have that luxury right now at.

[Caller]

62.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. You know what I'm.

[Caller]

Saying? The goal for that side hustle was for me to put it all towards my mortgage to get out from underneath it. Because my mortgage interest rate is 6 point. Sure, 6, 2.

[Dr. John Deloney]

5. That, that's, that's a high interest rate, but historically it's not. And it's, that's just a lot of like social media drama. Like, I want you to focus on the things you can control. Like what's your side hustle? Like what, what's your side.

[Caller]

Hustle? It's going to be selling things on ebay for my former boss. And I get 40 of whatever I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sell. Okay. I want you to try that for three or four months and see how it works.

[Caller]

Out. Really good money at it. Yeah, he's made really good money at.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It. But I don't want you to put a dime into it. I want him to give you the items and you take pictures of them and you deal with the stuff for the.

[Caller]

40%. That's, that's what I'm.

[George Campbell]

Doing. And track it against your time and what act, what money you actually made from that. Because if it's taking you, you know, if you might do the math and go, I'm making $6 an hour. By the time I'm done with.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This, you can go to Arby's and double.

[George Campbell]

That. Exactly. So just make sure that whatever you're doing is worth your time and try to get your core income up. Can we make 50 or 60 or 70,000? With the skills and experience you have, and I think you just, you stop betting on yourself at some point in.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Life. George, can you run through your calculator there like the, the Ramsey investment calculator, can you run through. If she puts 15% of her money, what does that look like? At what.

[George Campbell]

Age? So, Karen, here's the thing. I know you said you don't think you have enough. You need to make this a priority to invest. If you invest 15%, it's about 500 bucks a month. 525. From the age of 62 to age 80. Let's just admit we're going to have to work a lot longer than we planned on. With the actual rate of return of the stock market, you would have about $350,000 in that nest.

[Caller]

Egg.

[George Campbell]

Okay? Now if you go to 75, it becomes 180, 000. So you can see that the power of compound growth needs time. So those last five years really matter. Because at 80, guess what? You contributed about a hundred and thirteen thousand. 240,000 was just a growth. That was your money making you more money. So the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. We all know that the next best time is today. So don't delay it. Don't say, well, investing's not for me because I haven't done it and I'm 62. If you can fog up a mirror, there is hope for you yet, Karen. So hang on the line. We'll make sure you get connected to a smartvestor pro who can walk you through all of this and make sure you get that guide. Listen back to this and let it be a reminder that it's not too late to have a retirement with some.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Dignity. When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start, answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money. Starting Today, go with ramseysolutions.com.

[George Campbell]

Start. Our scripture of the day. Proverbs 13:20. Walk with the wise and become wise, for a companion of fools suffers harm. Jon Bon Jovi said, don't get too comfortable with who you are at any given time. You may miss the opportunity to become who you want to be. Yeah, George, there's your inspiration. John Little Bon Jovi, that shot.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Through, right through my heart and you're too.

[George Campbell]

Late. All right. Danielle is in Miami.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Florida. That was some.

[George Campbell]

Great. That was.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Impressive. I mean, I don't want to say that we're stand up comics, but that was pretty good stuff right.

[George Campbell]

There. Oh, Danielle, save us. How are you.

[Caller]

Doing? I'm doing well.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thanks. What's up.

[Caller]

Lady? So I'm facing a metastatic.

[George Campbell]

Cancer. How recently were you.

[Caller]

Diagnosed? About three weeks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ago. Holy smokes. How old are.

[Caller]

You?

[Dr. John Deloney]

59.

[Caller]

Jesus. And my husband is 65 and we have an eight year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Old. Oh, no. I mean, oh, yay. But oh.

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. What's the time horizon they gave.

[Caller]

You? I'm a planner. I just. Like I said, we're hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. And my husband and I are thinking that he is the beneficiary of my 403B from my work that I had. And we are thinking he should pay off our mortgage with that and that will leave him with Social Security and income from a rental property, property that we own free and clear to live off.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Of. I can I challenge you on something? I think this is if this.

[Caller]

Is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

A, if this is a way to manage just the Sudden chaos inside your own chest. I totally get it. But I don't want him making any plans on how he's going to spend money after his wife or if his wife passes. And here's why. Who knows what that world looks like? I've met people that can't walk back into the home that they were married in because their spouse doesn't live there anymore. And I don't want to tie anybody down to. I promised her. I said I would. We've moved this money already. I want. If. If you say, hey, I want, you're a goofball, and I want to have a plan down just so I can say I checked that off my list of things I need to go through because I'm struggling with this diagnosis. I totally get that. But I also want you to look him in the eye and say, I'm going to hold this with a very loose fist, because who knows how you're going to feel after this thing's over. My rule of thumb is nobody do anything for six months to a year after their loved one.

[Caller]

Passes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay? That's my.

[Caller]

Rule. And do we. Do we continue paying ties during this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Time? Continue paying.

[Caller]

What? Our.

[George Campbell]

Times. Your tithe. Like, to your.

[Caller]

Church?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I mean, the giving is a matter of the heart, and it doesn't, you know, stop unless there is a. If there's a storm in your life where you go, we can't afford this right now, and something takes priority so we can provide for our family. No one would shame you for that. Yeah, but if giving is a part of you and that's what you want to do, go for it. Don't stop the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Tithe. What's. What's the. What's the terminal nature of this. Of this illness?

[George Campbell]

What.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What. What stage are you in? How much time do they give you all.

[Caller]

That? It's. Well, we. We've got some more testing to do. Okay. It's a melanoma that we know has spread to my lungs. And our next step is a PET scan to see if it's anywhere else, like the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Brain. Okay, so that's a tough. That's a tough diagnosis you.

[Caller]

Got. And I could. I mean, you know, I could potentially, if the treatment goes well, I could. You know, I could have a long.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Term. Sure. That's right. So I would recommend you make a list of things that I'm worrying about and things I can control right.

[Caller]

Now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And the things that you're worrying about, write them on a separate list. Keep them in your phone. Write them on a Yellow pad, whatever. And once every few weeks, you and your husband sit down and have him smile at you and get you a cup of coffee. And he says, go, let him rip. And you just start, start piling them up. What if an asteroid hits us? What if the dinosaurs come back? What if Jurassic park is real? What if the moon landing was fake, like all that stuff. What happens? What are you going to do with this fund on this date when I pass away and then this, like get all. Just do that and then go back to. Okay, what can we control today? We can go for a walk outside. We can go play with our 8 year old. We can take some pictures, we can go to an arcade, we can have some fun. We can go get treatment, whatever. You get what I'm.

[Caller]

Saying? Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Do you currently have a will in.

[Caller]

Place? We do, but it needs updating because at the time we did it, our son was our foster son and he wasn't legally adopted.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yet. Please do that.

[Caller]

Asap.

[George Campbell]

Yes. So there are some practical things you can do. Like John said, there's some things you can control. And making sure that your will is up to date, making sure that every account has the correct beneficiary on there healthcare, power of attorney, durable power of attorney for your financial decisions. All of that stuff is important and you can knock that out this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Week. My wife has a folder that has every account, every password, every email account, every every everything. And once or twice a year she reminds me where it is and I remind her where mine is. And it's like all the phone passcodes, the Netflix code, all the stuff. And that might be a good thing to start putting that together just, just for peace of mind for.

[Caller]

Yourself. Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. It sounds sooner rather than later, but it's not.

[Caller]

Imminent. Right.

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. I'm.

[Caller]

Sorry. Yeah, that's okay. I feel, you know, it's not always. The last 30 years have been a blessing because when I was 29 years old, I went through a bone marrow transplant for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Leukemia. Oh, good.

[Caller]

Gravy. Last, last, not your first battle. Years have done, have been a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Bonus. You know, you've been playing on house money. So how have you did. Have you, have you had a good, a good.

[Caller]

Run? I have. It's been wonderful. And you know, this, this little boy came into our lives, you know, seven and a half years ago and it's just been the joy of our.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Lives. You're amazing. My prayer for you is that they come back with some positive news after the PET scan and they put you on a good treatment. And you get the right surgery, and you're. You' got another long.

[George Campbell]

Road. We're rooting for you, Daniel. Thank you for calling us and trusting us with this. All right, let's go out to Linda in Cincinnati. What's going on.

[Caller]

Linda? Hey, thanks so much for taking my call. So my father passed away earlier this year, and I've been working through his estate. We're almost done. My mom called me last week and said, hey, in the 1990s, your dad ran up my credit card. He wasn't providing, blah, blah, blah, $10,000. He ran it up, and he only said he would pay it back. Do you think. Can you give me that out of the estate? Because he always said he would pay it back. This is a real.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Debt. Are they.

[Caller]

Divorced? They never got.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Married. Okay, how much. How big is this.

[Caller]

Estate? Medium, probably. Our take home will be about.

[George Campbell]

95,000. So she's wanting a 10 cut to make good.

[Caller]

On.

[George Campbell]

Yes. Wow, that is so wild. I mean, I. I don't think she has any legal claim to this. I doubt there was a contract. This feels like a handshake. He said, she said, agreement from the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

90S. This sounds like.

[George Campbell]

Drama. So it would never hold up, but. Do you like your.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Mom? Yeah. Well, not even that. You know, your mom. If you give her this money, will she just. Just. I don't mean to be rude. Will she just shut up or. Well, then there's something else come next month and something else come the.

[George Campbell]

Month. Well, with interest, it's really 15, so I need another five now. Like, is she that type of.

[Caller]

Person?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Okay, then just say.

[Caller]

No. Very.

[George Campbell]

Manipulative. Just say no said, enough.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Said. Just say no. Say, I hate that he did.

[George Campbell]

That. And she's probably gonna raise some help. She's. She might. Will she come after you with, like, legal, like, sue you for this.

[Caller]

Money? Has already threatened a little bit of that. She's like, I could put a lien on his.

[George Campbell]

Property. She seems like the type. That's what I was getting at. I'm trying to. Here's what I'm grappling with. You could try to pay her off and she goes away, but I think she's gonna continue to knock on the door because you give her an inch, she takes a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Mile. She's not gonna put a lien on the property. Are you selling this property? Yeah. Put it on the market tomorrow and just be.

[Caller]

Done. It's. It's already in contract. We're supposed to close in, like, a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Week. Oh, great. Then just go on about your.

[Caller]

Life? Well, my question is, as a. As a Christian, I don't know, is there any kind of middle road? Should I be like Mom? I don't really owe you anything. But as a.

[George Campbell]

Kindness. Between her and a deceased.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Husband.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. She never actually.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Married. So you don't have a spirit. Spiritual, moral obligations, because you don't know if this actually happened. And she's made up crap to you about him your whole.

[George Campbell]

Life. This is not a what would Jesus.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do? Scenario. No, this is just do I. If I give her ten grand, will this stop all the madness or will it just.

[George Campbell]

Spark? Open fire, open the door, and I think you know it will open the.