Stop Ignoring Your Financial Fire Alarms

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – “Stop Ignoring Your Financial Fire Alarms”

Release Date: June 16, 2025

Host: Ramsey Network (Featuring George Campbell and Rachel Cruz)

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Introduction

The Ramsey Show, hosted by George Campbell and Rachel Cruz, centers on empowering listeners to build wealth and regain control of their financial lives. In this episode, titled “Stop Ignoring Your Financial Fire Alarms”, a series of callers present various financial dilemmas related to debt management, supporting family members, and making significant life decisions. George and Rachel provide actionable advice, emphasizing the importance of budgeting, setting boundaries, and prioritizing financial health.

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1. Caller: Kim from West Palm Beach

Timestamp: [01:10] – [08:45]

Issue:
Kim seeks advice on whether to continue financially supporting her 78-year-old mother and 68-year-old father. Despite providing them with $12,000 to $15,000 monthly (totaling over $10,000 annually), her parents' expenses exceed their income by $500 to $800 monthly, leaving them with minimal savings. Her father, recently unemployed, shows little initiative to seek new employment.

Advice Provided:

• George Campbell: Emphasizes the need to stop giving money to prevent further enabling. He advises Kim to establish clear financial boundaries to preserve her relationship with her parents.

  "Yes, you should stop giving them money. Sorry? You should stop giving them money." ([02:52])

• Rachel Cruz: Highlights the importance of ensuring her parents have a sense of financial independence rather than relying on Kim's support.

  "They need to pay rent or put food on the table and cover my other bills, pretty much." ([04:44])

• Conclusion: Kim is encouraged to confront her parents about their financial habits, discontinue financial assistance, and protect her own financial well-being to maintain a healthy relationship.

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2. Caller: Eddie from Columbia, South Carolina

Timestamp: [10:47] – [22:00]

Issue:
Eddie and his wife, both 25, are expecting their first child. He is in the midst of Baby Step Two but faces dilemma with two car loans (each $11,000) and $80,000 in student loans. Eddie is concerned about managing these debts while saving for the baby, especially with a car that has negative equity.

Advice Provided:

• Rachel Cruz: Advises Eddie to pause aggressive debt repayment and instead focus on building an emergency fund to cover potential medical expenses during the pregnancy.

  "I would save up to your out of pocket max as aggressively on your health insurance." ([13:11])

• George Campbell: Recommends prioritizing saving before attacking the debt, ensuring financial stability for the baby.

  "There is no interruption in income is the ideal scenario." ([27:07])

• Conclusion: Eddie is encouraged to stack up savings initially and then allocate additional funds towards paying off the high-interest car loans, ensuring a balanced approach to debt management and financial preparedness for the new baby.

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3. Caller: Wesley from Los Angeles

Timestamp: [23:09] – [50:31]

Issue:
Wesley owns a rental property where his 91-year-old mother is living despite accumulating $18,000 in credit card debt. The rent charged barely covers the HOA, taxes, and utilities, leading to Wesley’s frustration over the financial strain and emotional toll on his relationship with his mother.

Advice Provided:

• George Campbell: Firmly advises Wesley to evict his mother from the rental property, emphasizing the importance of maintaining financial boundaries.

  "And he's living off a sugar mama and that happens to be your mama. You need to remove the sugar and then mama will push him out the door." ([08:27])

• Rachel Cruz: Recommends finding cheaper housing options for his mother or considering family members who can take over, rather than continuing the financially unsustainable arrangement.

  "She needs to go find rent elsewhere where she's going to get evicted by someone much meaner than you." ([19:46])

• Conclusion: Wesley is urged to terminate the financial arrangement with his mother to prevent further debt accumulation and to seek alternative, more affordable housing solutions for her.

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4. Caller: Jerry in Chicago

Timestamp: [50:31] – [73:05]

Issue:
Jerry plans to gift his 18-year-old son $6,800 upon his coming of age, aiming to set him up with good investments and savings for retirement. He contemplates whether to invest this money in a brokerage account or a Roth IRA, with intentions of contributing $100-$200 monthly.

Advice Provided:

• Rachel Cruz: Suggests focusing on short-term financial needs over long-term retirement savings. She recommends Carl's son prioritize saving for immediate expenses such as trade school before investing for retirement.

  "I don't want him to shove this away in retirement and have no money for trade school." ([35:11])

• George Campbell: Encourages helping Jerry’s son budget and set financial goals, possibly starting with a high-yield savings account, and then progressing to debt repayment or investment based on future needs.

  "So if you guys get married and if and when you get married, then you start paying her down." ([73:02])

• Conclusion: Jerry is advised to allocate the gifted money towards his son’s immediate educational expenses and encourage financial literacy through budgeting and saving, rather than solely focusing on long-term investments.

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5. Caller: Ann from Columbia, South Carolina

Timestamp: [50:31] – [82:27]

Issue:
Ann's 91-year-old mother has $18,000 in credit card debt. With a fixed income from Social Security and a small retirement fund, Ann struggles to cover the 2,000 monthly rent that leads to her mother incurring debt.

Advice Provided:

• Rachel Cruz: Emphasizes the need to prioritize essential expenses such as rent, food, and utilities over credit card payments. She advises discontinuing the credit card to prevent further debt accumulation.

  "She needs to go find rent elsewhere where she's going to get evicted by someone much meaner than you." ([40:45])

• George Campbell: Reiterates the urgency of finding affordable housing to eliminate the financial strain caused by high rent relative to her mother’s fixed income.

  "We just don't know what's going to happen in the future. So you got to control the controllables, and that means paying off your debt." ([20:29])

• Conclusion: Ann is encouraged to seek more affordable housing options for her mother and to discontinue using credit cards, thereby preventing further financial instability.

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6. Caller: Nicole from New York

Timestamp: [53:54] – [63:38]

Issue:
Nicole has accumulated $55,000 in credit card debt despite a household income of $350,000. Her expenditures exceed her income, with significant spending on groceries and occasional dining out.

Advice Provided:

• Rachel Cruz: Advises implementing an EveryDollar budgeting system to meticulously track and manage expenses. She emphasizes the importance of debt snowball methods to eliminate debt systematically.

  "The debt snowball method is your ticket out of this thing." ([59:39])

• George Campbell: Highlights the necessity of cutting unnecessary expenses and increasing financial discipline to prevent continued deficit spending.

  "Momentum." ([30:03])

• Conclusion: Nicole is encouraged to adopt a strict budgeting approach, eliminate frivolous spending, and consistently apply the debt snowball strategy to eradicate her credit card debt while maintaining her high-income lifestyle.

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7. Caller: Adam from San Diego

Timestamp: [66:18] – [85:12]

Issue:
Adam is finalizing a divorce and planning to marry a new partner who resides in a different city. Both have young children with 50/50 custody arrangements, complicating financial commitments, including maintaining two mortgages—one in his city and one in his partner’s.

Advice Provided:

• Rachel Cruz: Suggests downsizing to eliminate one of the mortgages, thereby reducing financial stress and simplifying the living arrangements amidst custody schedules.

  "If you're going to marry this woman, I would have the same conversation with her. You guys are in a very transient relationship." ([73:05])

• George Campbell: Recommends avoiding holding onto two properties to prevent undue financial burden and relationship strain.

  "I would not have two homes that you have mortgages on." ([84:19])

• Conclusion: Adam is advised to eliminate one mortgage by selling one of the homes or downsizing, ensuring financial stability and easing the complexities of a long-distance marriage with shared custody responsibilities.

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8. Caller: Ryan from Houston

Timestamp: [85:12] – [103:49]

Issue:
Ryan owns an outdoor landscape and construction company with $500,000 in debt, including $100,000 from COVID loans and additional debts from equipment purchases. Business has declined, and he is considering bankruptcy.

Advice Provided:

• Rachel Cruz: Encourages Ryan to perform a budget audit, prioritize debt repayment, and explore ways to increase income without taking on additional debt.

  "Stop borrowing money, having money in the bank. Do you have anything in savings right now?" ([93:05])

• George Campbell: Suggests leveraging his skills by taking a different job temporarily to provide steady income, thereby reducing reliance on the business that has fallen into debt.

  "Start driving a truck today." ([90:50])

• Conclusion: Ryan is advised to restructure his finances, possibly by shifting to a different employment role to stabilize income, aggressively address existing debts, and avoid incurring new liabilities to steer his business back to profitability.

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9. Caller: Andrew in Austin

Timestamp: [104:16] – [125:46]

Issue:
Andrew, a university student, contemplates pursuing a PhD in Aerospace Engineering, which would require $150,000–$200,000 in out-of-pocket expenses. He is conflicted about incurring debt for his graduate studies, especially with encouraging advice from his father.

Advice Provided:

• Rachel Cruz: Advises Andrew to complete his undergraduate degree first, gain work experience, and avoid taking on additional debt until he is financially stable. She recommends leveraging free GI benefits and minimizing expenses through disciplined budgeting.

  "Do what you can, I'm going to gift you every dollar premium." ([125:31])

• George Campbell: Emphasizes the importance of gaining work experience and financial independence before committing to expensive graduate programs. He warns against rushing into debt for education without ensuring its necessity and return on investment.

  "There's never a scenario by which you need to give somebody, take a loan out for somebody. There's just not." ([50:17])

• Conclusion: Andrew is encouraged to postpone his PhD until he has a solid financial foundation, avoid taking on new debt, and seek career advancement through work experience rather than immediate graduate education.

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10. Caller: Jared in Nevada

Timestamp: [75:26] – [94:17]

Issue:
Jared questions the ethics of paying businesses in cash to receive discounts, feeling conflicted about the potential tax implications and maintaining integrity as a Christian.

Advice Provided:

• Rachel Cruz: Clarifies that paying in cash is ethical and can benefit both parties by reducing transaction fees. She assures that cash payments do not equate to tax evasion unless there is evidence of fraudulent activity.

  "But you're not morally responsible for what a business does with their money here." ([76:37])

• George Campbell: Agrees, stating that using cash simply for discounts is legitimate and does not inherently involve unethical behavior.

  "Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you have to worry about the federal government." ([77:18])

• Conclusion: Jared is reassured that paying in cash for discounts is ethical and can be a beneficial practice for both his finances and the businesses involved, provided there is no underlying fraudulent intent.

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11. Caller: Gene in Vancouver

Timestamp: [116:14] – [125:46]

Issue:
Gene is contemplating marrying his girlfriend while finalizing a divorce, navigating shared mortgages and 50/50 child custody across different cities. He struggles with the emotional and financial complexities of combining households and managing debts.

Advice Provided:

• Rachel Cruz: Advises Gene to avoid merging finances with family members to prevent financial strain and relationship issues. She stresses the importance of maintaining financial independence and simplifying living arrangements.

  "I would just not get involved in this." ([84:28])

• George Campbell: Recommends that Gene eliminate one mortgage to reduce financial burdens and prevent complications in his new marriage.

  "You don't need to be living with some other dude on the end of this breakup anyway." ([50:31])

• Conclusion: Gene is encouraged to simplify his financial commitments by reducing the number of mortgages, maintaining separate finances, and focusing on stabilizing his personal and professional life before fully committing to marriage.

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12. Caller: David in Dallas

Timestamp: [125:46] – [131:00]

Issue:
David seeks advice on whether to use severance pay to pay off existing debt or continue working part-time while saving for future expenses, especially with a pending baby.

Advice Provided:

• Rachel Cruz: Recommends that David pause aggressive debt repayment temporarily to increase savings for impending expenses related to the baby, ensuring financial stability before resuming debt payments.

  "Just save up as much as possible. That might be another five grand in savings." ([122:58])

• George Campbell: Encourages maintaining steady income and minimizing expenses, focusing on paying off debts systematically once financial cushions are in place.

  "This is your debt. And we're not piling on here with you." ([14:23])

• Conclusion: David is advised to prioritize building an emergency fund to handle upcoming baby expenses before aggressively tackling debts, ensuring a balanced approach to financial management during significant life changes.

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Conclusion

Throughout this episode, George Campbell and Rachel Cruz tackle a diverse array of financial issues faced by callers, ranging from supporting family members and managing debt to making pivotal life decisions like marriage and education. The recurring themes emphasize the importance of:

• Budgeting: Implementing strict budgeting techniques to track and control expenditures.
• Debt Management: Utilizing strategies like the debt snowball method to systematically eliminate debt.
• Financial Boundaries: Setting clear financial limits, especially when supporting others, to protect personal financial health.
• Prioritizing Needs: Focusing on immediate financial stability and essential expenses before long-term investments or additional debt.
• Simplifying Finances: Avoiding the mixing of finances with family members to maintain clarity and prevent financial strain.

Notable Quotes:

• "Yes, you should stop giving them money. Sorry? You should stop giving them money." – George Campbell ([02:52])
• "She needs to go find rent elsewhere where she's going to get evicted by someone much meaner than you." – Rachel Cruz ([19:46])
• "The debt snowball method is your ticket out of this thing." – Rachel Cruz ([59:39])

Listeners are encouraged to apply these principles to their own financial situations, ensuring they heed the "fire alarms" before their financial troubles escalate beyond manageable levels.

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Disclaimer: The advice provided in this summary is based on the content of the podcast episode and is intended for informational purposes only. For personalized financial advice, consult a certified financial planner.

Transcript

[Ken Coleman]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

[George Campbell]

Start budgeting for free today. This is the Ramsey show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your money, your work, and your relationships. The phone number to jump in is 8888-2055-2588-8825-5225. We'd love to hear from you. Alongside George Campbell, I am Ken Coleman. We're excited to be with you. George is going to coach you up on how to handle the money. I'm going to coach up on how to make more of the money. That's a good combo winning team. So great jean jacket today. I feel like you're fresh and ready to go.

[Rachel Cruz]

When I get up on a day with a TV show with Ken, I go, what am I going to wear? Because Ken is going to comment. I need to impress him.

[George Campbell]

You look sharp and you look like you got fresh face.

[Rachel Cruz]

Every two weeks. Every two weeks, as you may know. All right, this is what America needs to know.

[George Campbell]

I, on the other hand, found out that I've got a lot of lettuce according to the young guys I play pickleball with.

[Rachel Cruz]

What does that even mean?

[George Campbell]

It's a name for longer hair.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh.

[George Campbell]

So there you go.

[Rachel Cruz]

You taught me a new word.

[George Campbell]

There it is. I.

[Rachel Cruz]

We all learned something on this show.

[George Campbell]

Let's help Kim out in West Palm Beach. Kim, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, hi. Thanks for having me on.

[George Campbell]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

My question is I have been helping my mom out monthly with expenses, actually, her and her husband, and they have not made changes in their life to try to be able to pay their own expenses. And I'm just getting to the point of complete frustration and whether I should continue to give her money or, you know, how to handle this without ruining our relationship.

[George Campbell]

How much money you've been given them?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'm in a unique position where my mom also works for me. I have a firm and she works part time, and I just try to keep her busy. And, you know, and I do give her extra money and bonuses there.

[George Campbell]

How much? Hold on, hold on. You sound like a politician on a Sunday morning show. So I'm going to go back to the question, how much money? I don't care how you're giving it. I don't even care where it's coming from. I would just like to know, and I think George does, too, how much money are you giving them and have you given them?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, on a monthly basis, I would say it averages around 12 to 1500amonth and over a Period of time? I. I've kind of lost track, but I would say probably somewhere over 10,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Extra over the last, you know, year or so.

[George Campbell]

Okay. One other quick follow up. If this employee was not your mom, would you be bonusing that employee to the level that you're bonusing that employee? No.

[Ken Coleman]

I probably would have let that employee.

[Rachel Cruz]

Go already because I had a suspicion.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my short answer is no. I mean, excuse me. Yes, you should stop giving them money. Sorry? You should stop giving them money.

[Rachel Cruz]

You asked about their behavior like, well, they're not changing. And well, they have direct access to the bank of Kim.

[George Campbell]

Would they change?

[Rachel Cruz]

What onus do they have to change their life when they have it? Good.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So part of this and they both pulling the plug is to help them.

[Ken Coleman]

They both get Social Security. And he lost his job in September, but isn't very actively looking.

[George Campbell]

Well, guess who needs to get active again.

[Rachel Cruz]

Why would he when he gets unemployment checks from Kim? So this is. How old are they, Are they able to work?

[Ken Coleman]

My mom is 78, so she's older with some health issues. And he is 68.

[George Campbell]

Oh, dude's a spring chicken. And he's living off a sugar mama and that happens to be your mama. You need to remove the sugar and then mama will push him out the door. He needs to get a job. 68, he needs to be working.

[Rachel Cruz]

And they're straight broke. It sounds like this is the reason you're helping them is because you felt bad. It started off as a, hey, I'll help you out this month and then the next month and then nothing's changed. Is this been going on for a year now? How long?

[Ken Coleman]

This has been going on and on and off for several years, depending on their financial situation. They barely make ends meet. They get down to $10 in the bank. She's crying. It's.

[Rachel Cruz]

What is their total income without you involved?

[Ken Coleman]

Let's see that. Without me completely not involved, I would say it was around 2,400amonth.

[Rachel Cruz]

And what are their expenses? Are they living on their own? Do they have debt?

[Ken Coleman]

They do live on their own. They rent a home. Their expenses are probably 5 to 800 more than what they make.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so you're telling me 2,900 bucks could solve this and they make 2,400.

[Ken Coleman]

Right?

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So you're telling me a 68 year old can't work and make 500 extra bucks a month?

[Ken Coleman]

Evidently not.

[George Campbell]

Well, no, we're going to find out. You know that's not true.

[Rachel Cruz]

We're about to find out.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. This.

[Ken Coleman]

You.

[George Campbell]

You're already borderline resenting your mom. If not.

[Ken Coleman]

I am. And I. And I don't want to get to that money situation I know is getting bad and very frustrating.

[George Campbell]

So the reason I'm bringing that up.

[Ken Coleman]

Please come up with a plan.

[George Campbell]

They're not going to. And you know why? There's no reason for them to innovate. So I don't know if you've ever studied innovation. You run a business. You probably have read some books on innovation, you probably talked about innovation, and you yourself have probably had to innovate before. But what's so fun about innovation is, is the research shows that innovation is at its most effective when someone has very little resource. It's just amazing how creative we humans can be at problem solving when we don't have much resource and we just have to figure. Figure it out. Does that resonate with you, Kim?

[Ken Coleman]

It does. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Well, guess what? They don't have a plan. And they're not going to come up with a plan because they're not squeezed into a corner. But you put them in a corner and it's going to be shocking how quickly Sparky will get to work.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And he needs to get to work. And so you're the reason I bring up the resentment piece. Is this. Your mother's 78. Hope she lives 10, 15, 20 years. Okay. But I have aging parents right now. They're in their mid-70s. And I just think if I were you, I would be more worried about the limited time I have left with my mom being soured by this codependent situation that you've allowed yourself to get into. And you aren't a bad person, Kim. You are a phenomenal person and a phenomenal daughter. Make no mistake about it. But I'm trying to encourage you to say the person that I know you to be is going to want to have a nice twilight season of relationship with her mom. And the only chance of that happening is if you go, mom, I can't do this anymore. And lay it out very clearly. Why. But be okay with her not being okay with it. But the. The alternative is way worse till you get to a point one day where you snap at her, say something that hurts her, or you cut her off altogether and it's ugly. I just think there's pain on both sides of this. One is a rip off the band aid, quick sting pain, which is cutting them off now and telling mom why. The other one is that George, that deep surgery, a lot of therapy Afterwards.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yeah. You know, there's a lot here. Has this been going on her whole adult life?

[Ken Coleman]

There's been a lot of situations in the past that, yeah, she has made very poor decisions and needs to be bailed out here and there. And yeah, I mean, it's an underlying theme.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And it's much harder to turn this around at 78 years old than it is 38 years old. So this is not going to be an easy road, whether it's stopping giving her money or firing her as your employee. But I want to see if she needs to work. She needs to work. I don't want you to do this out of pity for her to give her a paycheck. I want her to have a sense of independence.

[George Campbell]

I would at least cut the bonuses. She knows she's being paid for at least subpar work. Your words, not mine. But I can live with that. And I think that eases us. But the bonuses go away starting today. And then her husband, who I've been affectionately calling Sparky. Sparky McSparkless. That's his new name. Sparky McSparkless. He needs to get out and get a job.

[Rachel Cruz]

He's 10 years younger, so he's got 10 years more energy than she does, at least.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, man, I got no sympathy for him on that deal. So sorry about this, Kim, but we're thinking about your long term situation. I want that relationship to be great in her Twilight season. Thank you for calling.

[Ken Coleman]

Makes sense.

[George Campbell]

Foreign this show is sponsored by Better Help my friends. Listen, I know it feels like the world is falling apart. And I know that we're all under huge pressure to perform and to look like we're keeping it all together at the same time. Here's the statistic that blew my mind. 76% of people globally agree that mental health care can help resolve personal problems. Yet 6 out of 10 people still believe that society discourages people for asking for help. Here's the truth. Real bravery, real strength, comes when you open up about what you're carrying, how you're hurting, and learning something you can do about it so that you can be your best for yourself and for everyone else in your life. If you're feeling the weight of the world, please talk to someone. Anyone. A friend, a loved one, or, yes, a therapist. I see a therapist every week. If you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, so it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online Survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time easily. And for no extra cost. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E-L-P.com all right, let's go to Eddie, who's joining us in Columbia, South Carolina. Eddie, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, how are you guys doing?

[George Campbell]

Good. Eddie, what's going on?

[Ken Coleman]

So me and my wife, we're both 25. We just found out about a month ago that she's pregnant with our first kid.

[George Campbell]

Way to go, Eddie. Way to go. Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, and so my question is, I'm currently in baby step two, and I have. We have a couple car loans, and then I have a bunch of student loans. Anyway, I heard you guys say to kind of stock for during the pregnancy and just make sure everything goes well. But I have a slight concern is I have a car that is extremely negative. Like, negative equity. I didn't roll negative equity or anything, but I just bought it. I overpaid for it, and it just has gone down in value because I've driven it so much. It's. I owe about 11 and a half on it, and it's only worth three. Wow.

[George Campbell]

You didn't overpay. Sounds like you got ripped off.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, and so I would. I'm like one car wreck away from, like, owing a bunch of money. You know what I'm saying? So I, I just, I want to, you know, is there it. Would it be smart to still try to work to pay off that car a little bit while saving, or should I just save all for the baby and then if everything goes well, then just kind of take all that money and throw it at the car. What would be the.

[George Campbell]

What's the other car approach that the.

[Ken Coleman]

Other car loan is? We owe 11 on it as well. My wife's car, but it's worth 11.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And what's your household income?

[Ken Coleman]

103.

[Rachel Cruz]

Amazing. And what's the total debt between student loans?

[Ken Coleman]

Around 100. So it's around 100 total for student loans. So, yeah, about 80,000 student loans.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And how much could you sock away if you just started making minimum payments on all these debts? How much could you save each month?

[Ken Coleman]

$2,500.

[Rachel Cruz]

Wow, that's impressive. So that's how much margin you could throw at the debt?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Okay. Actually, it was funny. We had started baby step two, like the month before we found out she was pregnant. I made one like nineteen hundred dollar payment to my car, and then my wife's like, I'm pregnant.

[Rachel Cruz]

So, okay, here's. Here's what I would do in your shoes. I would say yes to the stork mode, which is pausing, making minimum payments. But here's what I would do. I would save up to your out of pocket max as aggressively on your health insurance. Then anything beyond that, start throwing at the debt.

[George Campbell]

So do you know what your out of pocket max is?

[Ken Coleman]

So I know my deductible. I'm a teacher, so I have really, really good benefits. But I know that my deductible is like 650. And the out of pocket max is a couple thousand. And we already got the plan from the, you know, from the. The doctor. It shows how much we will come out of pocket. And I think with my. With my health, with my insurance, we're only going to pay out of pocket, like two grand total.

[Rachel Cruz]

Amazing.

[Ken Coleman]

For everything.

[George Campbell]

All right, George, now how does that change your specific?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, here's what I'm thinking. What if for the next two months, you stack up that five grand? You said you could do that.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right. Then after that, we start chunking money at the debt, and you'll likely knock out that car payment before the baby's even here.

[George Campbell]

I agree.

[Rachel Cruz]

So now you have $5,000 ready to protect you. I wouldn't wait till the last minute to save for baby. That's just too stressful and puts you in a bind. I would rather see you just stack up that money real quick, let it sit there, and then hit play on the debt snowball until baby and mom are home safe, and then we can deplete the savings back down to a thousand.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, awesome. Well, I really appreciate it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, way to think through this, man. You've done your homework and I wish you the best. Knocking out 100k, that's gonna take a while. But you guys have some great margin here and a solid income, so hopefully it doesn't take too long.

[George Campbell]

That's right. Wesley now is joining us in Los Angeles area. Wesley, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Gentlemen, thank you so much for taking my call.

[George Campbell]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

I got a. I got a silver squatter question problem for you.

[George Campbell]

A what?

[Rachel Cruz]

Silver Squatter.

[Ken Coleman]

Squatter.

[George Campbell]

Is that one of the superheroes in this Fantastic Four or is it somebody else? Oh, no, that's a Silver Surfer.

[Rachel Cruz]

Very different.

[George Campbell]

See, I got confused for a second. Silver Squatter. Okay, tell us more.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's. Here's my question. Do I kick My mom out of my rental. I know.

[George Campbell]

League.

[Ken Coleman]

I know the legal answer is going to be yes, but I'm. I'm having trouble with the emotional part of it.

[George Campbell]

Tell me about the legal. Tell me about the legal piece.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, she had paid rent in five months.

[Rachel Cruz]

Why is that?

[George Campbell]

Because. Because she birthed him.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm not paying you jack squat.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So the backstory is my dad passed away, and she was living with him for the past 12 years, but they weren't married, so they were just cohabitating together. And when my dad passed, I had a handshake deal with my brother that if my mom passed first, my brother would take care of my dad. If my dad passed first, I would take care of my mom, because we're a family of dysfunction.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so you lost a bet, essentially. And here we are.

[George Campbell]

The very setup of that whole thing is, first of all, how. How long ago did your dad pass away?

[Ken Coleman]

Coming up on two years.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, sorry for your loss. I didn't want to skate over that deal. So you lost a handshake deal and is. Have you confronted mom in any time?

[Ken Coleman]

Many times.

[George Campbell]

Oh, you have? Over the last five months. And what is her response?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, she. It's. It's just always an excuse with her. And I think. I know I'm. I'm an enabler. I can admit it. That I just. I can't get myself to finally pull the trigger and kicking her out because.

[George Campbell]

What are you worried about?

[Ken Coleman]

His mom.

[George Campbell]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

But you already changed that relationship when she became your tenant, correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And a not good 10.

[Ken Coleman]

Is she not yet. Correct.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, what is the rent you're charging her?

[Ken Coleman]

1500. And that literally just pays for HOA insurance, property taxes, utilities, and so I'm.

[Rachel Cruz]

Not seeing you're losing money on this deal.

[George Campbell]

Oh, of course.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

The.

[Ken Coleman]

The average rental in that community is like 3300.

[George Campbell]

And what are you. What are you on the hook for personally on this property? Every month?

[Ken Coleman]

Zero. I. Every month, it's about. It's about a thousand bucks just for the HOA taxes it's paid off. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, great. So you're not bleeding money from this thing?

[George Campbell]

Well, I mean, a thousand bucks a month, you're not making more than a scrape, so. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

However, with that, with my. With the career, I'm also a real estate agent, and our area, it's really slowing down right now. And so I have, you know, I have my emergency fund, but my emergency fund is three years, just in case something like this were to happen. But I can see that Every month, the account, you know, dropping lower and lower and lower. And we're not in the red zone yet. Like, we're not. We're not totally scared. But the reason I have these rentals that are paid off is to be my stable.

[George Campbell]

You don't have to sell us on that income. What did you call us for? Because I think you know what we think. What can we do for you today? We have about a minute and a half.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I just. How can I emotionally get over sending her the notice of 30 days to get out? Because I'm just. I think I'm at my wit's end here with her.

[George Campbell]

Well, the way you emotionally get over it is you walk through it. And so it's gonna suck. I can't sit here and tell you all the different range of emotions. You're probably gonna be a little bit angry at her. You already, already are angry at her. You're gonna be sad. Based on what she says and does, you might feel a little lonely. I mean, I could go through all this long list of emotions. I don't know what you're gonna feel. But the only way to deal with those emotions is to actually walk through them. And you're afraid of them right now. And I understand that. But you're just going to have to deal with it because here's where this is going. Just let your mind wander six months from now, a year from now, two years from now, what this is going to feel like. Just let your mind go there. And that's going to be toxic sewage, far worse than any emotion you're going to face right now. So it's time for you to step up and be an adult. And your mom's acting like a child. Come up with a plan. You and your brother need to stop doing shake hand bets and figure out how we're going to take care of mom and in this situation. And then, you know, be good sons. But she doesn't get to rent for free anymore, and it's time for her to move on.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you can help her with the root of the problem, which is she can't afford her bills. And what's the cause of that? Is she working full time?

[Ken Coleman]

She's not working full time. She is working like her. Her monthly income is just around 2300 bucks.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so it's either pay rent or put food on the table and cover my other bills, pretty much. Not like she's out of control spending. So let's see if we can get her income.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, she is out of control. Spending. She's gone through financial peace and failed miserably because she's filed bankruptcy three times.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my goodness. And so for those reasons, I would not have her as a tenant. She needs to go find rent elsewhere where she's going to get evicted by someone much meaner than you.

[George Campbell]

And you can't help her at this point, help her find place. But until her behavior changes, nobody can do anything. And that's what really stinks. So sorry, Wesley, that you're going through this. You know, one of the first things.

[Ken Coleman]

I discovered working in the financial world.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and.

[Ken Coleman]

There'S too little life insurance or none at all.

[Rachel Cruz]

Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.

[George Campbell]

I also discovered that there are a.

[Ken Coleman]

Lot of rip offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity.

[George Campbell]

What you need is level term life.

[Ken Coleman]

Insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable.

[George Campbell]

Way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker.

[Rachel Cruz]

Who represents a ton of companies and works for, not for the insurance company.

[George Campbell]

This is exactly what my friend Jeff.

[Ken Coleman]

Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about.

[Rachel Cruz]

They shop the term life companies to.

[George Campbell]

Find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them.

[Ken Coleman]

Zander is the real deal and that's.

[Rachel Cruz]

Why they've handled all my personal insurance.

[George Campbell]

For over 25 years.

[Ken Coleman]

I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or.

[George Campbell]

For a more personal touch.

[Ken Coleman]

Give them a call at 800-356-4282.

[George Campbell]

All right, if you're buying or selling your home, you understand what a big financial transaction that is. And we want to make sure here at Ramsey and the Ramsey show that you aren't clicking on the social media headlines. It's all clickbait trying to get you to buy a product or scare you half to death into doing something that's really stupid. We're paying attention to the latest trends. We understand the principles of buying, of selling and we've really created a great website, ramseysolutions.com market. We're talking about the real estate market. So that's the website ramseysolutions.com market and we have tons of news on there about the market trends right now. Free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, perspective on the rates, the mortgage rates right now versus maybe where they were versus where maybe they're going, all of that stuff. It's a great website to make sure that you're informed so that you make a great decision in buying or selling a house. Ramseysolutions.com market Kyle is joining us now in the Big Apple. Kyle, how can we help Dr. Ken?

[Ken Coleman]

George, first of all, great to talk to you. Huge fans of both of you. George, I'm a huge fan of your YouTube channel. Watch it. No, in all seriousness, I listen to your podcast on daily walks and I also do for weekend motivations when I walk to the park. I do like a daily gratitude everyday millionaire podcast. So you guys, you are plugged in.

[Rachel Cruz]

Way to go.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no, no, no. Huge fan, like over covet. I lost over 100 pounds and you guys helped. Besides financial motivation, physical.

[George Campbell]

Congratulations man.

[Ken Coleman]

Different, different guy, dude. I've been debt free eight years because of you guys and I owe you a huge debt of gratitude. You're.

[George Campbell]

We know you're very serious and you're very kind. Thank you. How can we help you today?

[Ken Coleman]

So my question is, unfortunately I moved to New York from Wisconsin from my job and I've had this job for 10 years. I've done well. Recently I found out that I had been laid off, it wasn't performance related and right now I'm hunting looking for a new job. I've updated the resume, done a couple interviews, but I am going to receive a because I did well and I was well liked at where I work. I'm going to receive a three month severance package of 40k. Now that's pre tax. I know Uncle Sam's going to want half of that. So we'll take 20k and then unused PTO 20k. So Uncle Sam's going to want again 50%. So let's just say I'm going to receive 30,000 probably at the end of the month if you want high level. I currently have 220k in my 401k in the bank. I have I think 13k checking, 30 savings and then a high yield of 7,000. I'm trying to think what else. 27k in HSA, 60k brokerage, 60k in Roth IRA. So you could say whatever, around 420, 420k. I have no debt. My monthly expenses are around $5,000. My rent's 1,600. My one vice I have though, being from Milwaukee, I'm a huge baseball and sports fan. I'm even kidding. Ever since the MLB ballpark app came out in 2019, I've been to 121 MLB games, 26 stadiums. I've seen every team play. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Wow. All right, so. So let me jump in real quick. Appreciate the setup.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[George Campbell]

That's your side. That's your, your one problem. Well, you're aware of it and you've been very dis. Money. That all stops right now. Obviously. No more ballparks for you.

[Ken Coleman]

I know, I know.

[George Campbell]

And you get that. So the. So. So the question is, how do you use that severance wisely? Have you already received your last check paycheck? Not the severance.

[Ken Coleman]

I did. I, I did. I'm going to receive the severance at the end of the month.

[George Campbell]

All right, so you're currently on your budget with that last check. And so at the end of this month you get the 30. So George, I'll just jump in real quick on some income things real quick. And, and then kind of hand him to you on what you would do in this situation. And by the way, can't think of a better person to give you advice on this than George. George could survive mult world wars and still have money buried in his backyard. He's just, he's absolutely the best. Here's what I would say. If I'm in your shoes, when is your last day of work? Is it end of the month?

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no. It already happened. It's effective immediately. And right now I'm getting paid not to work, so can't complain.

[George Campbell]

Well, I like that. However, if I were you, I'd be doing some type of part time work. Two part time jobs. If I'm in your shoes, while I'm looking for something else, Certainly in an expensive place where you are in that area. Yep. I would be doing 40 hours a week of work.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Let's just put it that way. And George, what would you do then on that severance?

[Rachel Cruz]

I would try to not use. It would be my goal. And so if you have to dip into the severance to cover some expenses, that's okay. I would try to avoid using the emergency fund because you are a very able bodied man who can get to work and no interruption of income is the ideal scenario. I'd rather see you get out of this with a great job and an extra 30 grand to put toward your next goal versus draining it down for the next six months because, well, I just couldn't get a job.

[George Campbell]

Which is, by the way, Kyle, that's why I said get anything right now. Nobody you know, you, you know what profession you're in, you know what you're looking for. So I'm saying why you're looking for that. If you can work 40 hours a week making 15, 16, 18, 20, 25 bucks, I don't care what it is. That is the, the idea. So when that severance comes in, hopefully we don't touch it at all. And there's really no interruption in income. That's the ideal scenario.

[Rachel Cruz]

This severance should be treated like a parachute, not a hammock. I don't want you using it to lounge for the next six months.

[Ken Coleman]

Of course, of course. My, my ideal goal. So I've already had a couple interviews, I had a couple in person. So I'm an accountant. But my ideal goal is hopefully finding something by either mid August. Error. Starting to work around Labor Day. That's my goal. So I'm pushing towards that.

[George Campbell]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

Finding the next full time job to get back on my feet.

[George Campbell]

Great. Well, see if you, because you're an accountant, see if you can pick up any contract work between now and or again, you're going to work in a big box store. I'm telling you, stacking money right now is such a, it's such a good thing for your emotion, you know, in that George, in a situation like this, we know from psychology research that when somebody loses a job, and in this case he said, this is a great example. Kyle's is, is laid off. Not for performance. Companies do this stuff all the time. But still, even though he didn't do anything wrong and they've treated him well with a severance he seems to feel very good about, they compare this to the loss of a loved one. So whether we realize it or not, Kyle seems very upbeat. But you know, it's a real emotional.

[Rachel Cruz]

There's grief, there's no clarity of mind when you're grieving.

[George Campbell]

There's uncertainty. I don't know of a greater fear for anybody than uncertainty, especially in this economy.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean the job market has slowed and it could take longer than it used to.

[George Campbell]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

To find that great gig.

[George Campbell]

So I don't know how you feel about that, but I, if I'm in his shoes. And that's what we always try to do. We try to give advice going, okay, if I can, I'm in that dude's shoes. Okay, I'm grateful for the, for the 30. But to your point, I don't want to touch it or very little of it. And so if I can go work starting today, he lands a job. He's like, oh, I'm making 18 an hour doing this great, you know, and just keep some income coming in until we land that next accountant job. Do you agree with that?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And it just keeps it sharp, too.

[George Campbell]

Momentum.

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't think idle hands during a time of grief is a great comb.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So getting to work, doing anything is going to help him stay sharp and go, I want that next great gig.

[George Campbell]

All right, so what would you change from a budgeting thing if you were in his situation? Would that change how you do your budget? Absolutely.

[Rachel Cruz]

I would go use my every dollar budget tonight and do what I call a budget audit. And so what you do is you go through and you go, is this necessary for survival? If not, we're going to cut it for now and you'll realize how little you really need to survive. You need food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance costs. And I would dial down everything else. All the fun money, the luxuries, the subscriptions, even pausing investing right now until he has stable income. Because I don't want to see him burn through this. Because those are the calls we get. This is not us being doomsday. We get those calls and they say, well, I thought I was going to find a job next month, and it's been six months now and still nothing. And I've burned my savings down to zero. And I don't want to see that for my friend who's worked so hard to build this wealth.

[George Campbell]

Putting you on the spot here real quick.

[Ken Coleman]

Quick.

[George Campbell]

What would you say an average person is going to find in savings if you had to pick a number out of the air, if they did a true budget audit? What do you think?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, we found if they use the new every $9500 is the number a yearly over a few months.

[George Campbell]

Oh, a few months.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Wow, that's a lot higher than I was.

[Rachel Cruz]

Think about that. I mean, you could shave off in most people's budgets, they're blowing 1,000 bucks just on overpaying for insurance. Little luxuries here and there. You can shave off a thousand each easily. So over a year, that's 12 grand.

[George Campbell]

The budget audit. George says so try it. You should do it.

[Ken Coleman]

You guys. One of the best gifts that you can leave your family after you're gone isn't stuff. It's peace. When something happens, your loved ones don't want to be digging through drawers or guessing passwords to access your important information. That is why I love Knockbox. That's N o K, as in next of kin box. Knockbox is a super practical physical system that helps you organize all Your important documents like accounts, passwords, assets, medical records, even your will in one safe place. And your Knockbox is divided into user friendly categories to help you get organized so you can give your family clarity, not clutter when they need it Most. Go to knockbox.com ramsey and check it out.

[George Campbell]

All right, let's go to Jerry in Chicago. Jerry, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, yes. Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[George Campbell]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

I, I have an 18 year old son. He's just about ready to turn 18 and I have been able to scratch and save $6,800 for him that I would like to give him on his whenever he turns 18. But not just give him. I want to set him up with good investment and good savings for retirement. And I'm curious what you guys would rec on that. I'm thinking maybe brokerage or maybe like a Roth something. He could like put 100, maybe 200amonth in and just always do that to help him get started, you know, get, get good, stable, get a better start than I did.

[Rachel Cruz]

So he's 17 years old now. What's his next move? Is he in high school? Is he going to College?

[Ken Coleman]

He turns 18 in a few months and he's got one marriage. He has one more year left of high school and his plans after that is probably not college, possibly like a trade school.

[Rachel Cruz]

Love it. Okay. And we're gonna need to cash flow trade school.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And that could be, you know, 10 or 15 grand.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I already have, I, they do it on a, they do it in a notebook. But I already have them somewhat budgeting their paychecks whenever they do work. They kind of balance it every week like a checkbook. But I, between giving and spending and a goal and saving and investing, I'm just wondering what to do with this 6800.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, my question is I think he's going to be fine in retirement. The bigger concern is the next five years of his life could get very expensive very quickly as he enters adulthood. You know, does he need to upgrade a car? Does he need to cover trade school? Does he need to cover deposit for an apartment? So all of these things come into play. So I like to think about this in short term goals versus long term goals. And I think the power of compound interest is great. We should definitely teach him that. You put $100 in now, it's going to turn into 2000 when you're retired. But there's also a piece of this where I go, I don't want him to shove this away in retirement and have no money for trade school.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, right. Which is part of my concern too.

[Rachel Cruz]

So that's where I'm going. I'm focusing on short term. I'm not concerned if he starts Investing even at 22 by 62, he's going to be a multimillionaire.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I would help him figure out what his next priorities are. That's something you can do as dad. And then help him figure out how to map out a plan to get there. So instead of funding it, help him figure out, hey, where would you allocate $7,000 knowing these are your next three goals coming up over the next four years? Because that's real life as an adult.

[Ken Coleman]

Right? Right. Okay.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. So I think about the bigger plan, I guess is what George is saying, you know, and then what does that then mean over short term? So big plan, big direction. He may not know yet, but if he does know, it's trades, I would. Before I gave him any money like this, I would. I would be letting him kick the tires on those trades. Letting him, you know, interview some people, sit with them, encourage him to really do some research. And if he goes, okay, I know, I want to do trade X. And then you can go, okay, let's look at the trade schools or the training required for this. What's that going to cost? And now everything comes into focus. If you come about it that way, as opposed to just going, well, I'm going to give him 6,800, which, by the way, is very generous, very kind, great, dad, and putting that in a retirement account for him. And maybe you decide to do that, but that's what George is challenging you to do. And I think that's a good move.

[Rachel Cruz]

Tactically. This would look like a high yield savings account where we park this money for now until we know the next step. And I like the idea of teaching him of how to budget each paycheck going, hey, we're going to put 15% away versus a lump sum from dad in an investment account. It doesn't really teach him how to put money away first and pay himself first first. So I like to see that happen from his future income and not from this lump sum from dad.

[Ken Coleman]

Right, right. And I really, really appreciate that. In fact, he does not even know about this. So I could just put it in a high yield savings account until he gets a bit of a path.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And here's one other idea. I'm going to throw this one at George. George may not like this. Oh, I don't know if you're going to like this. What if he says to the son, all right, Tyler, you what? Between now and the time you get out of high school, as you're working odd jobs, summer jobs, whatever, I'll match up to $7,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh.

[George Campbell]

Of whatever you make. Now, he doesn't know that you've got essentially the 7,000 saved. You're 200 bucks from that. But what do you think about that? I love that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, it's a secret way to force him to have some work ethic, have some skin in the game, and get a very nice, generous bonus from dad for his efforts.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, just another idea. You're going to put it in high yield savings as you do all the stuff George told you to do. But I thought that was an interesting way of doing it. And let's say the kid comes. Let's say the kid makes five, and you go, all right, I told you I'd match it up to seven. So here's another five, and he's got 10. You know, that kind of thing that may have real impact on him, you know, and to George's point, if he gets started in the trades really young and you've taught him how to save and invest, he's going to be fine.

[Rachel Cruz]

And he remains debt free with money in the bank. He's already so far ahead of most American adults.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So the key for setting your kid up for success is setting them up from 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, because by the time they're 18, it's hard to just all of a sudden change their habits. But if they know that money comes from work and the value of a dollar at 18, they're going to be just fine. And so I love this idea of setting him up for the next few years because this is a difficult time. As you step into adulthood and setting him up now, you won't need to worry about him in retirement.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I agree. All right, let's go to Ann real quick here in Columbia, South Carolina. And how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call today, because I have just no idea of what to do. But I'm calling about my mom, who's 91 years old. She's a widow. She owns no property, but she has over 1800 $18,000 in credit card debt, and we don't know what to do with that.

[George Campbell]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruz]

How did she get into this debt?

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, it's just been accumulated over the years. After my dad died, she had a lot of expenses that she had to take care of. And so the easiest thing for her was to put it on her credit card.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm confused. What credit card company thought giving a 91 year old broke woman access to 20 grand was going to pan out for them?

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know. And so now we're stuck because she, you know, just lives off her Social Security. And.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much does she make from that?

[Ken Coleman]

Her Social Security? Yeah. With her she has a small retirement. So together that's about 2,000amonth.

[Rachel Cruz]

And what are her expenses each month?

[Ken Coleman]

It's quite a bit. She had. She has to rent a home because she doesn't. The home that she had was falling apart and she had to get out the of.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, she doesn't have to rent that home. Could she rent an apartment that's cheaper? Is there income based housing that she could get into?

[Ken Coleman]

This was the only thing that we could find at the time because she had to.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, how much is it?

[Ken Coleman]

Actually, it's about 2,000amonth.

[George Campbell]

Oh, there you go.

[Rachel Cruz]

There's our problem. Of course she has to go into debt. So there's only one solution here and it's to get her out of this housing situation that's costing her every penny of her paycheck.

[George Campbell]

This is all hands, Deck. You seem to be, you seem to be befuddled by this.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the thing about it is is, you know, my siblings and I have been trying to help her out a little bit, trying to, you know, help get her through, but we're, we're just not able to do that on a regular basis.

[Rachel Cruz]

You mean financially?

[George Campbell]

Financially, but I'm not talking about that. I'm saying. And between the siblings and you and family and friends, we can't find your mom a much cheaper living situation.

[Ken Coleman]

At the time. We had to get her into a home. We did.

[George Campbell]

Not talking about that. I'm not talking about that. I'm telling you called us and your mom's in a financial crisis. What I'm trying to help you out in this limited amount of time we have with you is that's the big problem. She has a fixed income. We can't even think about the credit card debt because there's no margin. Margin. So.

[Rachel Cruz]

And that credit card debt is unsecured. So if she dies with that debt, the credit card company writes it off. We're not worried, not in your name. You're not going to have to pay it. It'll get paid out of her estate if she even has any money.

[George Campbell]

This is a four alarm fire. And like this is a conference call with your, with your Siblings, like, as.

[Rachel Cruz]

Soon as you hang up, 100 of her income is going to rent. That is a major problem. And she needs to pay rent first, put food on the table first, pay utilities first, before a credit card company gets paid. Paid. But I would cut her off of this credit card. It's only going to make the problem worse. We need to find a new housing situation, whether that's her moving in with one of you guys or finding her cheaper housing. But you turned a temporary solution into a permanent one and decided there's no other way. That's the problem.

[George Campbell]

Confession, folks. When life gets really hectic, I don't take time to plan my healthy meals. Some days I can't even remember what a vegetable looks like. That's why I keep field of greens handy. It's a superfood powder made with real fruits and veggies selected by doctors to help your heart, lungs, metabolism, and more. I mix field of greens with water, I shake it up, and I'm ready to go. And to tell you the truth, I did expect it to kind of taste like compost, but it's really delicious. Plus, field of greens promises your doctor will notice your improved health or you get your money back. So go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsey for 20% off your first order. That's fieldofgreens.com Ramsey to save 20% on your first order. This is the Ramsey show where America hangs out to have a conversation with about their money, their profession, and their relationships. Excited to have you with us. 888-255-225 is the phone number alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman, and we're going to go to Lily, who is into Big Apple. Lily, how can we help today? Hi.

[Ken Coleman]

Thanks so much for taking my call. So basically, I dated a guy for a little under three years and we just broke up. I took out a debt consolidation loan for him and. And I want to know what's the most ethical way to get him to pay me back faster than we originally planned? It is. It was originally a $35,000 loan. I have really good credit, so the interest rate was, it said 11.49%. It was much lower than his credit cards, his high interest credit cards.

[George Campbell]

Let me make sure I understand this. You took this out in your name.

[Ken Coleman]

Name. Correct.

[George Campbell]

And you guys just broke up.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And this isn't the first time I did this for him. It's the second. Both times I offered because I thought we were going to get married. We were talking about rings and everything. So, like, emotions Aside, like, I just want to know how to move forward.

[George Campbell]

How much does he owe you on.

[Ken Coleman]

The loan that's Left? It's about 30,000. And I took out the loan in October, so with interest, it's about 30,000.

[George Campbell]

How has he been paying it before? Before you broke up. Is he just sending the money to you?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah. Minimums every month.

[George Campbell]

What's the minimum?

[Ken Coleman]

9:51, 12.

[George Campbell]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And has there been any conversation about this?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. He told me he's willing to sign a contract saying that he'll send me about 2,000amonth, like somewhere around there. He only makes after taxes, about 1,000 a week. But he moved back home, so he doesn't really technically have any expenses, whereas.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you think he's going to commit to coughing up 50% of his income for the next two years?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I mean, I need it done in a year. I need it less than a year. That's kind of the issue. I'm.

[George Campbell]

Well, I need it, but I need a Lamborghini. That's not happening tomorrow.

[Rachel Cruz]

Two grand for 12 months is 24 grand. So it doesn't even get you to the balance. But, I mean, it's close. I just. I would love if he commits to this, but legally, you took on the debts. You signed up for the. This awful ride. And so legally, I don't know you have any recourse. Now, you said, what are the ethical ways? What I want to know what the unethical ways are.

[George Campbell]

That would be hiring the Gambino family or somebody like that Hunter to show up at his, make an offer he can't refuse.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I figured that I would either maybe talk to one of his family members and just say, like, can one of you guys take out a loan firm or tell him to do it himself, Because I am going to be going back to school next year, and while my credit is great, I'm at a 750. I should be at an 850.

[George Campbell]

So I only have which family member, which family member you got in mind. This is clearly.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, somebody should know. Someone should hold him accountable to at least, you know, get his own.

[George Campbell]

So you're gonna go to his brother, and his brother's probably gonna laugh at you and go, well, you should have said the same thing to him. You know, I just. I don't like that move at all. I still see that going anywhere. You can try it. George, what do you have?

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you have any written evidence that he acknowledged that this is his debt, that he agrees to pay back back 100%.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. We have lots of text messages. I'm going to draft up a contract soon. That's not an issue. We're just kind of agreeing on a.

[Rachel Cruz]

Number of what he'll give me the time to draft. It was before you signed up for this, so I don't know. I mean, I hope he signs it. You could take him to like small claims court and try to deal with this if it gets to that point. That's the only way. If he doesn't pay.

[Ken Coleman]

No. Yeah, we have text messages of talking about the loan and that he's paying and what he's willing to do. So there's.

[George Campbell]

There's not much you can do here is what we're getting at.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I would work on paying this off yourself and maybe you'll get reimbursed, but I wouldn't let this just hang over your head for the next several years hoping that he pays this back.

[Ken Coleman]

Right, I understand.

[Rachel Cruz]

So are you working full time right now?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I may have a good income. It's just now that I'm left alone in my apartment, I just. I focus on investing my money. But I do.

[Rachel Cruz]

You should. You have $35,000 in debt. You don't need to be investing at all.

[George Campbell]

Let's. Can we run through your numbers?

[Rachel Cruz]

Let's pretend like he never pays us back and Lily has clean all this up.

[Ken Coleman]

All right.

[George Campbell]

So what is your take home every month?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, yearly I make about 120 post tax.

[Rachel Cruz]

Post tax. So that's your take home base. So 10 grand.

[George Campbell]

10 grand a month?

[Ken Coleman]

It's about 11, 12, 10amonth. It depends how much I work.

[Rachel Cruz]

And if you pause investing, probably more.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's how much I take before I invest in money.

[George Campbell]

All right. But I want to make sure you hear what George is saying. We want you to pause investing for a very short amount of time.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So you got more income Come. Because we want you paying this down yourself. And then anything that the ex gives you is gravy. Because in the eyes of the law, I don't care if you got text messages or not. This is your debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And we're not piling on here with you. But George is right. Like, you have got to fix this situation. You trying to go to his brother or his parents or signing a contract with him and all that, that stuff, that's not the solution. Hopefully this kid's got some character and, and he does what he says he's going to do.

[Rachel Cruz]

But he could easily block your number and you spend the rest of your life trying to chase him around the country, too. And so we just don't know what's going to happen in the future. So you got to control the controllables, and that means paying off your debt. That's in your name. Is this all of the debt, or do you have any other debt out there?

[Ken Coleman]

No, that. That's all of the debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't have any debt of my own.

[Rachel Cruz]

What are your monthly expenses?

[Ken Coleman]

About. About 3,000, I guess, now maybe like 4,500. Just because my rent just technically doubled.

[George Campbell]

George, tell her what she needs to do.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, well, here's the good news. If you have 5,500 left over, that means in. Let's say you got 35, 30 left on it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so here's the good news. In about five or six months, this debt is gone.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And I'd get a roommate, wouldn't you, George?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. That sounds like if your rent doubled, you got to find another situation or get a roommate. How much is your rent?

[Ken Coleman]

2500.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so it's still a quarter of your take home pay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay, but he was paying some rent, wasn't he?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, he was, so. My rent was 1237, but it is now double that.

[George Campbell]

I'd get a roommate.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

You know, you don't need to be living with some other dude on the. On the end of this breakup anyway, so, you know, lick your wounds, get healthy, heal all that jazz, get this debt out of your life. And then again, hopefully he pays. Pays your back.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I believe he is a man of character, but I do understand. I just didn't know ethically I should demand or I should say. You have to do this now. And you have to go by my timeline, but I understand what you're saying.

[George Campbell]

This is not an ethic issue.

[Rachel Cruz]

You're not a bad person for wanting this money back. But the truth is, there's not a lot of legal recourse here because the debt is not in his name. And so there's a stupid tax that you're gonna have to own up to and go. I cannot believe I was so blinded by love that I took on 35 grand for a guy that I'm not even with anymore.

[George Campbell]

There's the lesson.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's the hard pill to swallow. And we're distracting it by this whole, like, I gotta get a contract and talk to his brother and see if he can get in touch with him to convince him. Because if he was a man of Character. You wouldn't need to go through his family to keep him accountable to pay this debt back, would you?

[Ken Coleman]

No. Yeah. And it's just me being like, a little out.

[George Campbell]

You're freaking out.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And by the way, I get it and I feel so bad for you. Oh, man. I just. I feel like your dad right now. I just. Please, literally don't ever do something like this again, okay? You're so, so smart. You don't need to do this for some dude, okay? There's never a scenario by which you need to give somebody, take a loan out for somebody. There's just not. There's always a better answer. So please tell me you're not gonna do this again. Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

Absolutely not.

[George Campbell]

You got this. All right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good luck with the debt payoff. Yeah, it's not going to be fun, but, hey, five months from now, you're back to square one, living your best life.

[George Campbell]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

What's up, guys? It's Jade.

[Rachel Cruz]

And let me tell you, when my husband and I had $280,000 of student.

[Ken Coleman]

Loan debt, we were not sitting around waiting on the government to bail us out.

[Rachel Cruz]

We did the hard work to pay it off ourselves.

[Ken Coleman]

So if you're still holding out hope that forgiveness is coming, that's like you waiting for your landlord to start paying your rent.

[Rachel Cruz]

It ain't gonna happen.

[George Campbell]

If you really want those student loans.

[Ken Coleman]

Gone, you need a plan. And for some of you, you, refinancing might be part of the plan. So I recommend Laurel road.

[George Campbell]

With Laurel road, you can get an.

[Ken Coleman]

Initial rate quote in less than five minutes. And if you have a more complex situation, you can set up 30 minutes.

[George Campbell]

To talk to a real actual human being to find out if refinancing is right for you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Ramsey's advice is clear.

[George Campbell]

Get out of debt as fast as possible, and a lower rate or a.

[Ken Coleman]

Shorter term can make that possible. Laurel road has low competitive rates and they even offer interest rate discounts. So stop waiting on the maybes and.

[Rachel Cruz]

The somedays and start taking action.

[Ken Coleman]

Today.

[Rachel Cruz]

Go to LaurelRoad.com Ramsey to get a.

[Ken Coleman]

Free rate quote or schedule a free 30 minute consultation.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's LaurelRoad.com Ramsey.

[George Campbell]

All right, back to the big apple we go. Nicole is joining us there. How can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi. I'm so excited that I got through. I've just started. Discovered you guys in March and on my ride to my mother's house, I listened to you guys for about 16 hours in the car.

[George Campbell]

Wow. Bless your heart. Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm sorry.

[George Campbell]

Hope your ears are bleeding from hearing us all the time.

[Ken Coleman]

So my question is, I recently started working. I'm a registered nurse. I've been a nurse now for two years. And I really didn't have any credit card debt. And then as soon as I started working, I started spending, and now we're about $55,000 in credit card debt, and I don't know how to get out of it. Both my husband. I make decent amount of money, and we just need to figure out the right way to go about it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you still have the credit card?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, I still have them. I'm. I lock them all, and I'm trying to pay them all off, you know, every month, but it just doesn't seem to be going very far.

[Rachel Cruz]

What's your household income?

[Ken Coleman]

I make about 100, and my husband makes about 232 50. It ranges with his overtime.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so you're making 350 household. What caused you to go? We don't have enough money. Out of $350,000, I need to go 55,000 in credit card debt. What caused that?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I guess every month we're just. We're down to like 50 cents of left in our account. And we're trying, you know, we don't.

[Rachel Cruz]

Where. Where is $30,000 going every month? Even in New York City? I mean, even congress would have a hard time spending all this money.

[Ken Coleman]

We. We own our home, I guess. You know, mortgage, and then just paying off the credit card debt. We don't really think spend any money otherwise.

[Rachel Cruz]

You just told me you dropped 55k on a credit card. So where. If I looked at your bank statement over the last two years, where would you say are the top two or three things where you're blowing? Money?

[Ken Coleman]

Food.

[Rachel Cruz]

Are you eating out every night? Door dash. What is it? Get specific.

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's our, you know, grocery bills. And then I guess we do order out, like once a week, which we stop.

[George Campbell]

Well, what's your. Let's start with the big things. Because, you know what's funny to me is that you. You literally have no idea what you spend the 30,000 on.

[Rachel Cruz]

You.

[George Campbell]

You just. You couldn't even pull it.

[Ken Coleman]

It was like, I don't think we're not making 30,000amonth. It usually comes to.

[Rachel Cruz]

Closer to 20.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, closer to 20 or sometimes it depends on overtime. So, okay, times it's less. Sometimes it's 10, sometimes. Sometimes it's 20. It all depends on how much over time.

[Rachel Cruz]

But what are your actual hard expenses?

[George Campbell]

Start with your mortgage. What's that?

[Ken Coleman]

Our mortgage is 3012.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's not the problem.

[Ken Coleman]

We pay like all our household bills and everything like that are about 7,000. And then our credit cards are. You know, our credit card payments each month minimum are about. About two.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. We still have 9,000 to go.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And then my husband has to take a lot of money to get to work. Usually it's about $1,000 or so to get to work.

[Rachel Cruz]

What does that mean, to get to work? Is he flying on a private jet?

[Ken Coleman]

No. So the fire. He's a fireman. The firehouse has like house taxes and they have to pay for meals every day. Day. And that's usually, you know, every shift he goes in, they have to bring in a meal. They have to. Everyone has to contribute to the house, basically. So it's usually about a thousand month plus gas. And then we have, you know, gas bills, everything like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, I'm confused. Where the other 7,000? You said there's household expenses of 7,000 outside of the mortgage.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, I guess it depends on the overtime, but I mean, I have everything written down, everything that we spend.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you have any other debt outside of the 55 and credit cards?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, yes, I have a full loan and I have a car loan.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, how much is the car loan and how much is the school loan?

[Ken Coleman]

School loan is 30,000 and the car loan is about 20,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so you've got well over $100,000 in consumer debt. You have a great income. And I think the solution here is to get on a very strict written budget with your husband starting tonight.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Now, is he willing or is he like, whatever, we're doing fine?

[Ken Coleman]

No, he. He's willing. He's willing. He. And both of us, we don't shop like. We just do basics. You know, we're just living basically.

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know anyone who lives basically making 350 who still goes 60 grand into credit car. I just don't. I don't believe that.

[Ken Coleman]

It was the first year that I started working. It was just my mistake. And I was spending on them when I shouldn't have because I didn't have any. Sorry.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, well, your new life starts today. I'm going to gift you every dollar premium. It's our. It's our budgeting app. And here's what you're going to do. There's an onboarding process. It's quick. And then you're going to list out your income for the month, whatever you think it will be based on. You know, you said it's Irregular. There's going to be some commissions and some balances there, but then you're going to list all of your expenses beneath that, and that's going to show you how much margin you should have or that you don't have. It'll show you. Hey, you have $3,000 left to budget. Every single extra dollar is going to be going toward your smallest debt. Make minimum payments on the rest. You can keep up with the minimum payments, correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, I do pay the minimum payments every month. And I so far have paid off three of the cards since I started listening to you guys.

[George Campbell]

Good. Good for you.

[Rachel Cruz]

That debt snowball method is your ticket out of this thing. And making 350, you can knock out, you know, 120 grand in debt really quickly.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because I think there's a lot of room in this budget and your income, this shovel is going to save you guys if you can get a handle on it. But the good news is, Nicole, this is not the first we've heard of this. We get calls all the time, people making insane money. And they're going, we're paycheck to paycheck. We got bills up to our eyeballs. And it's because of lifestyle creep. The more you make, the more you're going to spend, the more you can stomach that next payment. So what you and your husband have to get really good at is saying no. No to more debt, no to eating out, no to the luxuries that you're used to. This is going to. You're going to feel like you're living in college again.

[George Campbell]

And, you know, maybe Hub starts taking casseroles to the firehouse.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, they're not really allowed. That's a fight that we have pretty often.

[George Campbell]

I thought it was a funny little idea, and it was, down casseroles, not allowed.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's unconstitutional.

[George Campbell]

That feels un American to me. But I digress.

[Ken Coleman]

They have to make the meals together. They eat together.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know, I'm confused. What kind of job cost you $1,000 a month to work?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it, it's, it's, you know, they have the house tax. They have to pay house tax every month.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's not a fraternity that he signed up for. It's a job.

[George Campbell]

House tax.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, they pay, you know, pay for the food in the house, grocery bills like shampoo. They live there basically. You know, a lot of times there.

[George Campbell]

For, you know, here's the deal. We digress on that. Here's what I want you to understand. You getting in your budget, by the way. We're so glad you called. We're glad you're jumping on board. You've made some great progress. But I'm gonna tell you something. It will set you and your husband free when you truly get every budget item in that every dollar budget and begin to look at it. Because when you can see it, and we weren't trying to grill you or put you on the spot, we're having some fun. We're having a little bit of fun, but it's obvious that there's a lot of spending that you still don't have your hands on. And so by knowing where every dollar is going, what a game changer. You would be surprised, I promise you right now. And, George, I'm going to put you on the spot here, but if you and I went to their house tonight and we brought a casserole with us, because I think maybe we would. And we had dinner with you, and then afterwards we got it all out on the table and we got the legal pads or the whiteboard or whatever, I bet you we could find a lot of money in your budget. George, you agree?

[Rachel Cruz]

I could find probably $12,000 in the past month that could have gone towards debt payoff. That's my best guess.

[George Campbell]

Now, that's not to scold you, Nicole.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's to encourage you again.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, his. His pay is variable, as is mine, because of overtime.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, but on a bad month, you're still making 10 or 12 grand.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So sometimes a paycheck for him might be 3000, sometimes it's 7000, sometimes mine's 1700, sometimes mine 3500.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know, and that's even more reason for you guys to get really serious and go, we have to look live like we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. And that means not borrowing money, having money in the bank. Do you guys have anything in savings right now?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we have. And we have, like, you know, retirement funds and liquid cash.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you have, like, a savings account?

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. I think you guys are going to. You guys are about to experience something called financial peace where you're not stressed about money. I'm going to gift you that. On top of every dollar premium, there's nine lessons in there. Watch every single lesson with your husband. Husband. Have a hard conversation. Do that budget. Have a weekly budget meeting. Make a new budget before every month begins, and you're going to feel so much more in control.

[George Campbell]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because you guys work too hard, you're too successful to be living this paycheck to paycheck life.

[George Campbell]

And Nicole, when you have one of those big months, you get ahead and then pretty soon you're out of debt and now you're really making progress. Hang in there, you'll get it. We're going to walk with you.

[Ken Coleman]

There's a time in your life and did the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instead stability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner. You can rely on Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. Get started on the American dream of home ownership [e-mail] that's churchillmortgage.com all right.

[George Campbell]

George, so when people are tackling debt or building wealth, one of the things that it's kind of a human thing is to, is to forget about one important step in each of those goals. Whether you're trying to get rid of debt or build your wealth. It's insurance. And I know you like to talk nerdy about insurance. It's a big thing for you. You love insurance and having the right coverage as opposed to too little or this is one you talk about a lot. Too much insurance either way can really hamper the journey. And so it probably begs the question, you're going, all right, Ken, you make a good point. How do I know if I have the right coverage? Good question. If you go to ramseysolutions.com checkup this is a short quiz and it's going to tell you what you need need or what you don't need when it comes to insurance coverage. So it could save you a lot of money or it could really protect you from financial alarm. Again, takes just about five minutes. Ramseysolutions.com checkup ramseysolutions.com checkup and George, you do this on a regular basis yourself.

[Rachel Cruz]

Probably the number one place I send people to because it's such a great quick resource to go. I don't want to have too much. I don't want to overspend. I don't want to be unprotected here. When it comes to building wealth, this is a big part. It's not a baby step for a reason. It's a part of the entire Ramsey plan. So get this stuff done today. Make sure you're protected.

[George Campbell]

All right, Adam is up next in San Diego. Adam, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, guys. Trying to finalize a divorce. And then I've been dating another woman for a while and we live in different cities and both have young children and 50. 50, 50 custody. So trying to figure out how we navigate living in two cities.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, man, I don't know that either one of us know how to handle that deal. That sounds like a lot of complexity. But I mean, for sake of giving you an answer.

[Rachel Cruz]

What are the.

[George Campbell]

You live where you live and she lives where she lives. You guys are not a joint household. You haven't even finalized a divorce. She got her kids in another city. You got your kids in your city. We got custody issues. A lot of complexity. And the solution to complexity, George, is usually simplicity. So you do your life, and when you guys get together, it's date night. You got a budget for that, I hope. But other than that, you're doing your thing. She's doing her thing.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, for now. So we're trying to kind of navigate that she is fully divorced and mine's been kind of a three year process ending. We see each other almost probably half the month at this point. She's in Phoenix. So it's a cheap, cheap flight. Usually $75 round trip flight back and forth between us.

[George Campbell]

So let me flip this back to you. I gave you my opinion, and again, the opinion didn't cost you anything. And you quickly went into explain mode. But you called us. What are you struggling with and how do you want us to help you?

[Ken Coleman]

You got it. So my, my big question, I guess I've got a house here with my ex that's going to sell. And as we navigate getting married, she has a mortgage there. What I'm trying to decide is post marriage, right? Combined households. Even though we're living in two separate places, how should we pay down the debt on her mortgage or should I look to buy a house and try to grow equity here? And so we would have to. We would end up with two mortgages.

[Rachel Cruz]

And that why would you keep the other house if she's not living there?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, she would continue to live in Phoenix and I would continue to live here.

[George Campbell]

And you not be married.

[Ken Coleman]

No, that's at. After we're married.

[Rachel Cruz]

Why would you live in cities when you're married.

[Ken Coleman]

Because we, I mean, like I said, we have 50. 50 custody of children and both of us.

[Rachel Cruz]

So you're both tied to those places?

[Ken Coleman]

We're both tied to those places.

[George Campbell]

Then let me ask a really dumb question. Why get married?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, we, we fell in love and we love each other. We spent a lot of time working through that, figuring it out.

[Rachel Cruz]

But what makes this a marriage if you're not together?

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, they kind of, of the, like, we see each other half, half of the month, so probably half the days in the month, something like that. And because we're both Christians and believers, our divorces didn't come through desires of our own. They came through actions of our, our partners. And as we kind of came together and met and talked, we found that, that there was a lot of connection and similarity and the divine, the. I mean, marriage is the next step for us.

[George Campbell]

Okay. That I. Okay, I'm starting to understand now. I appreciate that conviction. I get it. But again, back to George's question then. I get why you want to be married and you are locked in because of the custody deal. I get it. But I wouldn't have two houses that we have mortgages on.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So am I right, George?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Is she visiting you half the month and the next month you're visiting her half the month?

[Ken Coleman]

It's, it's kind of back and forth. So, you know, one week our custody schedules align. So I go there when I don't have my kids and she comes here when she doesn't have the kids. So it's. I'm there once a month almost, and she's here once a month.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And how, how much longer do we have of this kind of custody issue where we're stuck, where we are because of that? Is this 10 years, 15 years?

[Ken Coleman]

Probably about 10 years. It's probably about 10 years, yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. That is just too long of a time for me to do this like long distance marriage relationship. So I don't know what the. If there's a magic solution to this. I just know I wouldn't be comfortable paying these two mortgages for 10 years while living there half the time for each of you. I would rather just be a little more flexible, maybe rent some somewhere and use the funds to either stockpile, savings, invest, but it just feels like a big waste.

[George Campbell]

How much will you walk away with, Adam, when you sell this house post divorce, how much will you walk away with?

[Ken Coleman]

My portion of It'll be about 300,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And you said that the the girlfriend, she has a mortgage on her house.

[Ken Coleman]

She has a mortgage of about 500,000 on her home.

[George Campbell]

Is it pretty bad?

[Ken Coleman]

Big? Yeah, it's a four bedroom, three bath house.

[George Campbell]

Good. Can either one of you downsize or both? How many kids are you talking about? Let's talk about you first. How many kids you have?

[Ken Coleman]

I have two kids.

[George Campbell]

How old are they?

[Ken Coleman]

They are a nine year old son and a six year old, almost seven year old daughter.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So you don't need a big place for when you have time with them. You don't need a big place with them? Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

No. I'm in a. I'm currently in a two bedroom apartment here. I moved, I moved out about a year ago.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well. And then if you're going to marry this woman, I would have the same conversation with her. You guys are in a very transient relationship, the two of you. Okay. And then you got the kids coming back and forth. So if she doesn't need that big old house, I would have her downsize as well. Eliminate the debt. If you guys are going to get married and I feel like this is happening whether George and I like it or not, it's not up to us.

[Rachel Cruz]

The key is you're going to have to learn how to budget for all this. If this is a non negotiable, we're keeping these houses. We have to have the income to support all of this and more. So can you guys do that currently with no issue?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I mean it's currently happening. She's paying hers and covering the mortgage fine. And I'm fine in my situation here. I got, we've got emergency funds and are continuing to hit our investments. No debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Other than these mortgages and you have a mortgage on your.

[Ken Coleman]

Other than the one mortgage there and then. Yeah, the mortgage that will end here. Yes.

[George Campbell]

If she could downsize, I feel like that would be great. And get close to paying it off.

[Rachel Cruz]

Through that process at least to limit your expenses.

[George Campbell]

But I'm not sure why you called now that we've actually talked because it sounds like you've got, you're on top of this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, you look another thing you're thinking of.

[Ken Coleman]

I guess the question that I'm thinking of is the real question was should we pay down her mortgage there or look to buy in? Both. Or me look to buy here after we're married?

[George Campbell]

We already answered that. We don't think you should. You don't need two homes that you have a mortgage on. So yeah, if you guys get married and if and when you get married, then you start paying her down. That and I'm saying one of the strategies ought to be to downsize. If she can sell that $500,000 house in Phoenix and make a good chunk of money and downsize. Because this is a season for you guys. This is about a 10 year season, you said. So I would actually reduce expenses by reducing space. Sounds like you've done that. Good on you. But I think this other lady and your girlfriend needs to do this in Phoenix. And then we kind of just, we regroup after the kiddos have left the nest.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, you guys are in baby steps. 4, 5, 6. If you have no consumer debt. So invest that 15%, put some money away for the kids college, however you guys decide to do that and then anything left over, let's chunk it at the the next smallest mortgage, get it knocked out.

[George Campbell]

All right. Today's Ramsey show question of the day is sponsored by why Refi? When you're tired of making no progress on your defaulted private student loans, why Refi can help you explore a fresh start with low fixed rate financing. Refinancing rather. So if you want to stop spinning your wheels and go to yrefi.comramsey and learn more, I highly recommend it. That's Y r e f y.com Ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

[Rachel Cruz]

Today's question comes from Jared in Nevada. How do you feel about businesses that prefer to be paid in cash? We are doing some home upgrades and following the baby steps has allowed us to pay in cash. A friend recommended asking our vendor if he would prefer cash payments and I was shocked when they jumped at the notion and offered a better price for cash flow payments. Is this ethical? As a Christian, I feel conflicted. I'm not opposed to paying my fair share to taxes, but this feels like a win win for everyone except perhaps Uncle Sam. Wow. Okay. See, Jared is assuming that this is now tax evasion, which I think is a far cry.

[George Campbell]

I don't, I was going to say, unless I'm missing something here, asking someone to pay in cash doesn't mean that they're evading taxes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Number one, it helps the business owner avoid, you know, the 3% percent credit card processing fees which saves them big money. Ask any small business owner how much they pay in these stupid fees that just make credit card companies richer and they'll tell you so. I don't think this is as big of an issue as you think it is unless you have clear indication that this is a front and they're running some kind of shady business, in which case I just wouldn't do business with them. But you're not morally responsible for what a business does with their money here.

[George Campbell]

Yes, and. Yes and, and here's what I would say to that. If they ask you to pay for it with a debit card or a check. Okay. You still don't know what they're going to do with that money. It doesn't mean they're reporting their taxes properly. They're paying taxes. So you've built this up in your mind somehow it feels really, really skeezy or something. And it's not. It's just cash, so. And by the way, just because you're a Christian doesn't mean. Do we really need to be worried about the federal government? I mean, I think they're going to take care of the themselves. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Think about it. We pay taxes on our income and then with our post tax income. We pay sales tax with the post tax income.

[George Campbell]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Just a never ending loop.

[George Campbell]

So cash is king.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I pay my fair share to Uncle Sam and more. But I nothing wrong with paying cash. In fact, I always ask if they have a cash discount and I would say seven out of 10 times I get a discount. Well, it's happened this week.

[George Campbell]

You know what I think I might do this weekend? I think I might go to a restaurant and literally pay cash just to freak out the waiter.

[Rachel Cruz]

They wouldn't know what to do with that.

[George Campbell]

They wouldn't know what to do.

[Rachel Cruz]

Although, wait, I just lay it all.

[George Campbell]

Out, you know, what's the bill? Okay, hold on. I'm licking my finger like my grandfather, counting out the bill.

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't want to touch a bill that has been licked.

[George Campbell]

I agree. I said that. I knew that that would bother you, but back in the day, a distinguished gentleman would lick a bill to try to get it, you know, out of the. He's got the whole thing going on. He says counting in. Okay, let me get.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's if the bills are real crispy, fresh out of the bank. Bank fault.

[George Campbell]

And usually the guys that are. Yeah, you nailed it.

[Rachel Cruz]

You gotta watch that.

[George Campbell]

You nailed it. For a guy who would never do it, that was.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I've done seen it.

[George Campbell]

Done.

[Rachel Cruz]

I knew I don't have enough hand sanitizer in the world after touching that bill.

[George Campbell]

No, that's the truth. You're probably nervous about licking your own thumb, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I'm actually thinking about it right now.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Let's move on. Donna in Seattle, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, thanks for having Me?

[George Campbell]

You bet.

[Ken Coleman]

So my, my question is related to investment properties. So me and my significant other, we both in Seattle, Washington, but his family lives in Syracuse, New York. We were looking at homes around there mainly for his parents just because the house that they bought there, we weren't super happy with what they bought. And his siblings could have done a better job as kind of focusing more on, on what to buy besides that. So we looked around and so it's on the plot, it's on an open lot. They're asking for 60k. A lot of the utilities are already done, electrical sears done. The lot's actually cleared. It's been on the market for over 200 days. And my thinking is, okay, in this area, there's a big chip manufacturer that's going in there, they're expanding their health care and houses are actually selling, are going in, in pending within two weeks to less than 30 days. So are there any other aspects I should look at for, you know, to purchase this investment? He's more conservative than I, than I am. And you know, we already looked at.

[Rachel Cruz]

What do we call it, conflating to either either mom and dad need a place to live and they're unable to figure it out because they're incapacitated health wise and you're the financial power of attorney, or we're buying an investment property across the country for no reason under the guise of helping in laws.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I'm.

[Rachel Cruz]

Which one is it?

[George Campbell]

I'm confused as well.

[Ken Coleman]

It's both. Right. So paying for this, we can afford it.

[Rachel Cruz]

But why, why can't the parents afford it?

[Ken Coleman]

They haven't made the best financial decisions and the great people that they have, I think they make emotional financial positions.

[Rachel Cruz]

So let's label it what it is. It's not an end investment, it's you sinking your hard earned money into people who have been financially irresponsible their whole lives.

[Ken Coleman]

But we would own the property. We were.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, but wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So quick question. All right, just want to make sure we got the details. They're currently in a situation they cannot afford. Did I get that correct?

[Ken Coleman]

They can afford. We can afford where they live right now? Yes, but I.

[George Campbell]

Okay, I thought they made a bad purchase decision and this was all about getting them out of it.

[Ken Coleman]

So they can afford to live, but they are spending money on a place with fixing, remodeling things that should be lowered on the list.

[Rachel Cruz]

Who's paying for all this remodeling?

[Ken Coleman]

They are doing that.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and is this your parents or Your husband's parents.

[Ken Coleman]

His parents.

[George Campbell]

Okay. It's his parents. And I heard the part about the other siblings. Let them make a bad decision. I'm not sure I buy into that. These are grown. These are grown people. But what I don't understand. I'm with George on this one, is are they actively trying to get out of their current house? Meaning they're going to now sell it and then, and then jump into the house that, that you buy and they're going to pay you rent? Is that the solution?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, what happens when they can't. What happens when they can't afford the rent paying you?

[Ken Coleman]

They. Well, they're both retired, so they're able to pay. So the mortgage that they pay now would be the what?

[Rachel Cruz]

But you just told me they're going into debt because they can't even afford the renovations. What makes you think as they get older they're going to be more financially stable?

[Ken Coleman]

I don't.

[George Campbell]

So do you see what we're saying? You're buying. You're taking on debt, which is a risk for people that you can't get away from without a lot of pain. If they start messing up their financial life just because they are in your house and now they don't. They can't do rent or renovations. They may find ways to spend money on other stuff and all of a sudden they can't pay rent. And now they're, now they're in your house. Do you see why we're concerned or does it seem like we're being a little bit too uptight?

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, I see your concern. But the. So, but the point is it would still be under our name.

[George Campbell]

Doesn't matter.

[Ken Coleman]

Accumulate in value.

[George Campbell]

It doesn't matter. We're talking about the part where you got to kick them out because they can't pay the rent.

[Rachel Cruz]

During this show. Donna, earlier, like an hour ago where someone said I have to evict my mom because she hasn't paid the rent. It's exactly on my rental property. What do I do? And so I don't think you should ever intermingle your finances with family. It's going to sever the relationship. You're going to become resentful. You're going to be on the hook for all the finances under the guise of. Well, this was supposed to be an investment property that panned out. We would never tell someone to buy investment property across the country and especially not for their in laws to live in and hopefully pay them rent for the rest the of of their lives. So Truthfully, I would just not get involved in this. What is forcing you guys to be involved?

[Ken Coleman]

Just to have something better for his parents.

[Rachel Cruz]

But they have chosen this and they've made peace with it. It sounds like regardless of if it's good for them or not, that's not the point. But it's, it's not, they're not asking for your input.

[George Campbell]

And one other quick thing. I thought I heard you say that you are more aggressive or a little bit more risk taker than your husband. Correct?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm more of a risk taker in coming to investments, I, I've always been very financially down.

[George Campbell]

So here's my follow up question. Does your husband, he's got some, he's got some hold ups on this himself doing this, correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Then back off. These are his parents.

[Rachel Cruz]

If you want to be an investment property mogul, you go for it in your own area with tenants that you select. I would not intermingle the in laws in all this. It's a recipe for disaster.

[George Campbell]

And if your husband, who's their son is nervous about this, I had to hold off on this. Stay out of it. This is the Ramsey show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their profession and their relationships. Triple 882-55-5225 is the phone number to jump in. We'd love to hear from you. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman and we're gonna get to Ryan in Houston, Texas. Ryan, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, this is Ryan. I own an outdoor landscape and construction company and I've been doing it for the past 10 years probably. And I, since COVID I have found myself, I guess, deeper in debt than I ever have. And then in 2024, the, my line of work slowed down, down to the point that I actually went backwards in sales versus the other years where I was all always increasing our numbers. And so I had financed a bunch of stuff based off of what we had done in sales over the last couple of years, thinking that we would only continue to produce more and more. And when that wasn't the case and the bottom kind of fell out of our, our market, of our economy for what we do in 2024, we started, started tanking and even considering bankruptcy and other options.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much debt are you in total?

[Ken Coleman]

I would guess somewhere close to half a million.

[Rachel Cruz]

And what does that make up?

[Ken Coleman]

What are the debt? Yeah, we got one of those Covid loans for about a hundred thousand dollars to the sba and between a couple of trucks and a tractor. Oh, another 150 to 200. I don't. I don't have the exact figures sitting in front of me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Do you have equity in any of those pieces of equipment?

[Ken Coleman]

No, not. I don't.

[George Campbell]

How's business now?

[Ken Coleman]

Business is still kind of slower because I also. Also moved at the beginning of this summer to another city, so I relocated. So I'm having to restart from almost, you know, no. No clientele. No one knows who we are. And Just bought a new house over here, too.

[Rachel Cruz]

Why'd you move?

[Ken Coleman]

Didn't. Didn't like the area that. That we were in.

[Rachel Cruz]

And are you married?

[Ken Coleman]

Wanted? No. No.

[Rachel Cruz]

Single?

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And what's your mortgage? What's left on that?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's. It's brand new, right? At 300,000. About 290.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. How much could you sell all the equipment for if you had to?

[Ken Coleman]

The stuff that's got loans on it. I would be. I would be negative on those. And so I would have to come up with the difference to get the banks paid off. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

What would that. I think you need to do some homework and figure out exactly how much you owe. I would go pull your credit report from all three [e-mail] and pull all of that. Get some real facts and figures on your numbers, because right now it's all just a guess and you're overwhelmed and scared. So we need some facts on paper to understand what we're actually dealing with. We got to see what this boogeyman looks. Looks like.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir.

[Rachel Cruz]

Once you have all that, now we can figure out what everything's actually worth. Then we can figure out how much we're underwater and that becomes our. Our gap. We need to save up.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, yes.

[George Campbell]

But it feels like to me that. That you've got to do what George says and go, okay, let me just see what I can do here and how much we can knock this thing down. You know, filing for bankruptcy is the last option here. And I almost wonder if. If you just. If you don't try to go work for somebody else for a season, you know, you just moved to a new area, but you've got skill and you've got experience. True or false?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, both true. And the other thing, I was actually trying to get out of what I do.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Because of the labor field, the. The employees and the damages and the bad choices that they bring and they cause.

[George Campbell]

Okay, what would you do?

[Ken Coleman]

I've got some other options. I could start a hot shot company where I go around hauling loads for people at various prices by myself.

[George Campbell]

And is that, is that going to pay you the most amount of money? You get my point here? Let me reframe you for just a minute. We'll get back to your bigger debt issue. George, you know where I'm going with this. I. I want to know what you can make the most amount of money doing right now. What can you do? What skill set and experience hauling people's junk? I can do that, and I have very little skills, as George knows.

[Rachel Cruz]

But Ken and I can go get a pickup and just pick up.

[George Campbell]

And George and I pick up trucks and start a trash hauling company today. But, I mean, we aren't. That's not a premium service. What do you get paid the highest dollar to do?

[Rachel Cruz]

Where's the most margin for you? What kind of jobs?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's selling. Selling the outdoor landscape construction is probably the highest. But it, it seems to be such a roller coaster. And that's, that's kind of the first thing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Why is it a roller coaster? What happened in 2024 where it's like, well, the market in Houston just nobody wants landscaping anymore. I just don't buy that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you keep blaming people quits spending money on. On stuff, on services like that.

[George Campbell]

Let's say that you're right and we're wrong. Although I have some questions which we're not going to solve in our limited time. Let's go back to the question real quickly. I want you to. To answer it. What is the best skill and experience that you have outside of what you've been doing and hauling trash? Give me something. What do you. What. Where can you make the most money right now? Doing what?

[Ken Coleman]

I've bought and sold real estate, and I've bought and sold heavy equipment, trailers and trucks.

[George Campbell]

Okay, but again, bought and sell, that's not a skill. You're telling me a business idea. You don't have any money money. And so you getting into some type of business right now is very risky.

[Rachel Cruz]

You're looking for the next scheme to shortcut your way out of this, and there is no shortcut out of a half million dollars in debt. When you're underwater on all this equipment, the next scheme is going to put you further into debt.

[George Campbell]

So understand, one last shot. What's a trade skill that you have their best trade skill.

[Ken Coleman]

Like I said, driving trucks. I could get a job with, you know, driving semis, making 150,000 a year.

[George Campbell]

All right. What did you pay yourself to last year?

[Ken Coleman]

I didn't pay myself anything because the business.

[George Campbell]

I get it is a trap question. Go start driving a truck today, George. Now what does he do after he starts making 150,000?

[Rachel Cruz]

You're going to live on as little of it as possible and make minimum payments on your debts to keep them current. And you're going to have to debt snowball your way out of this. Attack the little, the smallest debt first with all the margin you can and then work your way out of this. And if you can get a loan for the difference from a credit union on some of this equipment and sell it and get rid of it, that's your. Your best bet.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

If you can do that with all the equipment, it'll really bring your debt way down.

[Ken Coleman]

I could. I could go into the trucking deal two ways. I could go in it driving someone else. Someone else's semi or I could go into it with my truck and trailer that I currently have and, and make about the same amount of money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you have all the correct licensing? You don't need to get any further experience or tests?

[Ken Coleman]

No, yeah, I've got all that.

[George Campbell]

Well, then that's what I.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you don't have a team right now for your business. Is there anyone that's on your payroll?

[Ken Coleman]

Right? Yeah, I've got three employees on the landscape company right now.

[George Campbell]

Well, you can tell them they got to go find other work.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. What are they doing if there's no business to be had?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I, I'm. I'm finding and selling some jobs, but I'm not. I'm not finding the, the, the bigger jobs that I'm used to selling. That, that put money in the bank.

[George Campbell]

It's.

[Ken Coleman]

It still seems like the area of Texas that, that I'm in is.

[Rachel Cruz]

Ryan, you got to stop blaming everything. It's the location nobody wants to work. It's the labor. You signed up for half a million dollars in debt. So let's start with the bad choices there before we go pointing fingers and let's clean this up. Income is going to be the solution here while bringing your expenses as low as possible.

[George Campbell]

So everything that you don't have to drive in this new trucking job, you sell. And yes, you'll have to pay the difference off, but that again, going to give you some breathing room. But you got to get after this. Go make some money and don't try to start another business. Not now.

[Rachel Cruz]

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[Ken Coleman]

All.

[George Campbell]

Right, question for you. Have you ever found yourself trying to explain the baby steps to somebody?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Struggling with money. You have.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's difficult sometimes.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, yeah. We're are hard for you at times.

[Rachel Cruz]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

Well, if that's you, you're going, I love this stuff. I can understand it, but I'm trying to talk to my family about it or friends or whatever we put together. I say we, whatever. There's no we. I didn't do anything. But our amazing production team, probably led by our fearless leader, James childs, for all one would assume, have put together the Ramsey 101 playlist. You're asking, well, what's a Ramsey 101 playlist? What that means is the basics, the fundamentals in a free, easy to share playlist. It covers what are the baby steps, how to pay off debt with the debt snowball, or maybe how to build an emergency fund just to give you some, just basic examples. And you can get this by clicking on the link at the top of our show notes to open the Ramsey101 playlist on YouTube so you can see it. You can. By the way, this link is easy because it's on YouTube. You can, can text it, DM it, send it in a group chat. Can you snap it? I don't know. Is that a thing I think kids are doing on Snapchat?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know if they're doing links in there, but I don't know.

[George Campbell]

But the point is if you can send a link, it's there. The Ramsey 101 playlist. Check it out in the show notes. Andrew's up in Austin, Texas. Andrew, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hello. Hi. I just want to, wanted to ask like some advice on what you would do in my situation and my current situation is that I'm, I'm currently a university student in Austin and I fortunately got a full ride and I'm thinking about going into graduate school. However, that would have to come out of pocket and the reason why I'm kind of like not wanting to do that is because of course it would have to. Like I would have to get a loan, and that means going debt after I just got a free, you know, college education, so.

[George Campbell]

Smart man.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't really know what to do.

[George Campbell]

Okay, let's just walk through the details, okay? Because I think your instincts are right. Let's walk through it, see if George and I agree with you. Okay, so how much would it cost you out of pocket to get this graduate degree?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm thinking it's going to be around. Well, it's in state, so it would probably be less than 200,000. But I'm thinking somewhere around there, maybe like 100.

[Rachel Cruz]

What kind of program?

[George Campbell]

Hold on. You're getting ahead of me, George.

[Rachel Cruz]

I had some sticker shock. Understandably.

[George Campbell]

So are we saying 150 or 200? What are we saying, Andrew?

[Ken Coleman]

150.

[George Campbell]

Let's say 150. All right, now let's answer George's question. What is this degree?

[Ken Coleman]

Aerospace engineering.

[George Campbell]

MB a doctorate? PhD. What? Masters?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, yes. PhD.

[George Campbell]

So a PhD in what?

[Ken Coleman]

Aerospace engineering.

[George Campbell]

Oh, you're one of those smart people. Okay, all right. Very nice. That's impressive.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so when they say it's not rocket science. This one actually.

[George Campbell]

This one actually is rocket science.

[Rachel Cruz]

Got it. Okay.

[George Campbell]

That's right. PhD. Okay. All right, so now the next question. If. If the PhD program were not on the table, you know, like there was no way you could do it, what would your next steps be? Where would you be headed?

[Ken Coleman]

I would probably just get a job and start working from there. And start in what? Building wealth? Well, I want to work for SpaceX. That's the goal. Or NASA. I want to design spacecrafts or airplanes. I'm still kind of like in the middle of choosing between that.

[George Campbell]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm barely turning into a junior, so I'm barely becoming a junior.

[George Campbell]

Okay. All right. So the point of my question was, your instincts were, I don't want to go into debt. That's going to add a lot of pressure. All the things that you said. And by the way, George and I completely agree, those things are real. And you don't need the PhD right now. You already know the direction you want to go. You may not know the destination, but you know the direction. You understand the difference. Exactly right. So if it were me, I would not get the PhD right now because I believe that if the PhD is something that is needed or wanted down the line, after you've gotten into your field and you've crushed it and you have no debt, and so you've been able to stack up cash, you're investing all the things that George will walk you through. I want George to kind of walk you through your steps coming out of college here assuming no debt. But at that point there's a good chance that there might be a company who would reimburse you or pay for your PhD program down the line. You following me?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

So that's the best case scenario. And then worst case, you have a great income doing aerospace engineering with undergrad and you put away 50 grand a year for three years and you cash flow the program. So that's option B. But I like this plan of you finishing undergrad, getting some work experience, getting a great income. My. I assume you're going to make six figures out the gate.

[Ken Coleman]

I hope, I hope so. I'm not. I'm actually not even sure I see online it's like 80 to like 120.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so let's call it six figures and let's say you keep living like a broke college student and you're able to put away 50k a year or so. Now you can cash flow this thing without having a mountain of debt to stare at while being stressed about trying to step into this new field.

[George Campbell]

And you may find out once you get in the field, and this is my number one reason for putting off a graduate degree because you may find out you don't need it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's honestly the whole reason why I even like thought about it was because my father wants me to go into graduate school.

[George Campbell]

There we go.

[Rachel Cruz]

See, that's a terrible. Can I just go to grand into debt?

[George Campbell]

As a father, there are times where I project things on my kids. That's something that I think is a good idea and it's not the right idea. It may be a good idea, but it may not be the right idea. And in this case, sometimes your dad wants you to do this. And there could be a variety of reasons why. I'm sure his heart's in the right place. But I would not do this if I were you. You could always come back. You understand what I'm saying? Like you could get out in there and go, you know what? I wish I had gone and gotten the PhD into George's point. Now you're in a where you can cash flow it and there's no stress.

[Rachel Cruz]

And if dad wants you to go to grad school that badly, he can pay for it. How about that? Hey, now there's a solution.

[Ken Coleman]

Go.

[Rachel Cruz]

Dad, I don't have 200 grand, so I'm not going to do this because you taught me to be a responsible adult. So Like I had told them, like.

[Ken Coleman]

So, like, how am I going to pay for this? And he said, oh, I mean, like, don't even worry about it. It's going to pay itself off after you get out and you already have a PhD and you get a job.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I'm like, yikes.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't think that's how that works.

[George Campbell]

Good for you, young man. Good for you. It's like, wait a second, a dad? How's that work? You know? And oh, oh, by the way, does it come with stress relief pills? You know, because all that debt hanging over your head. Because, see, you really figure that out. Like George, one of the things I noticed right out of the gate with Andrew was he had already weighed the cost, the emotional and mental cost.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

That a lot of people don't weigh the whole idea. Well, it'll pay for itself, theoretically, over time. If it does help you get a job, it can make. Make money, blah, blah, blah. But what nobody ever takes into account is the emotional and the mental anguish.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's true. And the fact that you're realizing that there's a lot of zeros on the end of this decision and you should not just jump into it because somebody said you can make a lot of money in aerospace. There's a lot of wisdom coming from you, especially at a young age. So I would listen to that small voice.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, we're with you. Team Andrew, right here.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

All it takes is, you know, Trump and Elon having one more fight and another government contract gets cut. All of a sudden Space isn't hiring and now you're stuck because you thought, I have a PhD, hire me. SpaceX my dream.

[George Campbell]

Very good point.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I would hold it all very loosely while working your tail off and living on less than. You make, saving up as much as you can in order to fund this dream in the future, if it's necessary.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I'm glad you said that. Because for those of you that can hear what George said and not think that he was taking a shot at either one of those.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, it's just the truth.

[George Campbell]

The fact of the matter is that could very well happen. It's. It did. Contracts were threatened. You say whatever you want to, but there were young people, what, 20 years ago, 25 years ago that had just come out of school and they're like, I want to go work for Enron. This is going to be great.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's a great company.

[George Campbell]

And I got my MBA, I'm 150,000 in debt, but I just got an office on the sixth floor of Enron. That was on a Monday afternoon. On Tuesday morning, the place was locked up for some reason. You were too young to know what I'm talking about. Go Google it. So you don't think I'm pulling a. A boomer move right here, which, by the way, I'm an Xer, not a boomer.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, give him some credit.

[George Campbell]

Give me a little bit of credit here. But you know, the point is, is they thought they had it. They thought they had it made. Had no idea that that company was a shell of itself. And everything evaporated, George, just like that. So that's a very key point is an extreme example. Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

But if you add debt on top of all of that, you got a recipe for disaster. And that's the calls we take on the show is when you thought something was going to work out and it didn't. And so being debt free is the way to be.

[Ken Coleman]

Foreign.

[George Campbell]

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th and early bird. Prices start at $749 per couple, but.

[Rachel Cruz]

The prices will be going up soon.

[George Campbell]

Get your tickets today@ramsey solutions.com event. Graduation doesn't come with a GPS. Don't we know that? And we got a lot of students right now in this country walking into the real world with no clue on the direction they should go. This is a deep passion of mine. It's why I and the team created the get clear career assessment. Find the work you're wired to do student edition. This is designed for students to get clarity so they can build a real plan that will help them move forward in their professional Life. It's only 34.99. The assessment and the book. The book's about a 45 minute read. It's me coaching your student through their results. Three things they learn in the assessment. Number one, what they're really good at. Two, what they enjoy doing. And three, the results that motivate them. If you can use what you do best to do what you love, to prod results that you care about. I got news for you. You're going to be very, very successful and you'll have enough because of the results you're getting. You can get it at ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store let's go to Gene in Vancouver. Gene, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I was just. I wanted to ask the question if my girlfriend and I should get married right now, given all the circumstances and all the factors.

[George Campbell]

Well, what are your circumstances and factors?

[Ken Coleman]

So we've been together for five years, right? Just like a lot of relationships. And we've had our ups and downs. We're both believers, both trying to grow in our faith. I've been technically married before, which pretty much means 12 years ago, I made a dumb decision of just going to a courthouse with a girl like, a month after meeting her. And I've just kind of had some, like, relationship stuff in my past. Like, I was engaged another time to a girl I was with for a year, and she just wasn't ready. Her parents are going through divorce. Couldn't make it work. But recently, I guess you could say I hit like a kind of a weird. Like I was getting ready for engagement. And then I kind of hit a weird patch where I kind of ran into burnout at work and just kind of fell into, like, a little bit of anxiety and just trying to, like, rebuild my internal world and. And taking some time off work. Like, I've been off work for almost a couple of weeks, which she's okay with. Like, she says she's willing to work with me through everything, and I'm kind of.

[George Campbell]

I'm sorry, hold on. When you say she, you mean your girlfriend is okay with this?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, like, she said, she's willing to, like, work. Work with me through things and rebuild things. And obviously she wants to get engaged. Like, we're both in our high 30s, right?

[George Campbell]

What's. What's your work saying about this? Are. Is your work giving you this time off or is this time you've taken off, like, paid medical leave?

[Ken Coleman]

Like a paid medical leave? I talked to my work about it and explained the situation, and I'm still kind of figuring out if I'll even go back there, to be honest. Like, I've been in sales my whole career, so I could really go kind.

[George Campbell]

Of sell what's causing the burnout.

[Ken Coleman]

I think a lot of it was when I. I had a whole bunch on the go leading up to when it happened. Like, I was selling, like, three properties on the side. I was in my busy time at work. I was kind of overthinking a bunch of things, and I think all of it just kind of came to a Point where my body was like, hey, like, let's just chill.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Do you. Do you love this girl?

[Ken Coleman]

I really. I really love this girl. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Is this very different than any previous relationship that you've had?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it feels like it's a lot deeper.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And is she ready to get married to you?

[Ken Coleman]

She's. She's like, fully ready to. To get married to me? Yeah. Like, in spite of everything I'm. I'm going through, for me, I just kind of feel like I'm wondering if I should have it more together and figure out more of my stuff first.

[George Campbell]

Well, you keep saying all this stuff. Is there something you're not telling us? And I'm not trying to get you to bear your soul, but I want to make sure that George and I've been doing this a long time is. Sometimes people will bury the lead. George call. George calls it. And so you go. All this stuff I'm going through because, listen, I don't want to minimize. Okay. Burnout. I get it. It happens. I think you're a classic overthinker. Because I'm an overthinker, and I think I hear the signs, and so I'm not judging you. I'm calling myself. I'm an overthinker if I stay in my head. But is there anything else going on? Any past major trauma, or is it just. You are a classic overthinker and you've had some ups and downs and you just don't want to make the wrong decision. What's going on?

[Ken Coleman]

It's that, too. And also, like, I've just been healing a little bit from, like. Like, I think. I don't know why, but a lot of things kind of surface in the season. Like, I was kind of feeling a little bit and just renewing my brain from some, like, verbal abuse and stuff from my dad. Right. And at some point here, him and I are going to go to counseling. Like, he got saved maybe two years ago.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Are you going to counseling on your own right now?

[Ken Coleman]

I am. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And.

[Ken Coleman]

And, like, it's like, what is the.

[Rachel Cruz]

Feedback been from that? What are. What are they saying is going on? Or what are the. What's the solution? What kind of tools would you need to live a full, stable life.

[Ken Coleman]

With them? She honestly hasn't really been talking to me that much about that. She's. She's just been more so, like, giving me assessments and stuff. And. But I've been. I've been in counseling a little bit with, like, my pastor and her pastor.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Great. So premarital counseling essentially?

[Ken Coleman]

Kinda, yeah. So pretty much like the, like the response I'm getting from my pastor and her pastor is like, do it, do it. Like quit overthinking it, do it.

[George Campbell]

Well, there's a, there's a notion. I see. That's where I'm at. I felt like I heard that. I mean, all the things that you're dealing with right now are going to be helped by being in a healthy, stable marriage. A marriage?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Unless there's something going on that I'm unaware of and it doesn't sound like this is the case. You actually stop thinking and start serving because that's what marriage is. You stop thinking and start sacrificing because that's what marriage is like. Dude, move forward. This is a very different relationship. Feels like you've learned from the past. You're gonna think your way into being single in your 50s if you're not careful.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, no, I, I, I appreciate that.

[George Campbell]

If she's the one, then decide, then do it and then keep getting healthy, you know?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, she's an amazing girl. Yeah, I just, like I said, I just feel like a bunch, whole bunch of things happened at once and then I kind of crashed and I feel like I'm in the process of like God restoring my, well then, then my internal world. And then you got a little more complex than that too. Like it was even like, like, like she, she, she's just getting her citizenship in our country after like eight years of fighting for it. She's amazing that way. And then for me, like, I like, it was kind of weird, but leading up to the time where I was getting close to engagement, like I actually randomly got my citizenship in Europe through dissent. Like I just hired a lawyer. I didn't really think it was possible. And then it kind of all came true and I started overthinking things. I'm like, well, what if I'm called these Europe? And she's called to hear? And then maybe a lot of that kind of.

[George Campbell]

You don't have to explain it to us. I get it. I am an overthinker, hear me say. And I've learned how to stop that, that mess. And here's how you stop doing it. You start focusing on what you're excited about in the future that you want. And you stop focusing on all the fears that could actually hurt the future. Because there is no, no future without some type of risk and putting yourself in a marriage. And the point is, you have been scared and over analytical on this entire Call. Except for one moment. George, you remember what it was? Did you hear it in his voice.

[Rachel Cruz]

When he said he loves this girl?

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[George Campbell]

I didn't. I didn't. George didn't know where I was going. That was an open ended question.

[Rachel Cruz]

That was a wild guess.

[George Campbell]

Well, you heard it.

[Rachel Cruz]

I did. I felt you, actually. I could feel your blood pressure just go.

[George Campbell]

Who? Yeah. It was like. It's like you're this. You're this like cat on a top 10 roof until you talk about this girl. And your voice dropped. I'll bet you your shoulders drop. So I got to tell you, this is all we. Can we have a few minutes with you. But hearing that over the phone, hearing what your pastor said. George, here's my.

[Rachel Cruz]

Here's my take. Gene, I think you have been overthinking and looking for all these distractions because you. You're scared of doing the hard thing, which is dealing with what's going on inside, dealing with this impending engagement. And so you're scheming, aiming for the next thing. And I'm gonna become a European citizen. I'm gonna flip another property, and if I just. You're just looking for all these ways out, and the only way through it is through it. And so that's what I would tell you to do, is just simplify your life. Focus on one thing at a time. Focus on stable income. Focus on the relationship that you're just right in front of you. And ignore everything else.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

No more distractions, no more hustles, no more schemes, no more European citizenship.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And stop focusing on all the stuff that happened to you in the past. It happened.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So it shaped you. So. So, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

All right, but listen, you don't have to get married tomorrow. You don't have to rush the engagement. But I would move forward, my man, or else this gal's going to move on. And you don't want that to happen.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, guys, you know what I love about summer? All the fun yet yeses. Yes to pool parties, yes to snow cones, and yes for all the fun in the sun moments that you can have with your family. But summer goes fast and so does summer spending. And if you're not paying attention, you're going to look up from your slushy and wonder, where is all my money going? That's why I love the EveryDollar app. It's so simple. It helps you create a custom budget and give every dollar a job to do. And let me tell you, you'll know exactly what is happening with your Money. And that gives you such freedom and guilt free spending. So do yourself and your summer a favor. Go download everydollar for free in the app store or Google Play. Today.

[George Campbell]

Our scripture of the day is promoted. Proverbs 2, verses 6 through 7. For the Lord grants wisdom from his mouth come knowledge and understanding. He grants a treasure of common sense to the honest. He is a shield to those who walk with integrity. Our quote of the day from Elon Musk. Well, right out of the old headlines.

[Rachel Cruz]

Old move.

[George Campbell]

When something is important, you do it even if the odds are not in your favor.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, very underdog. All right.

[George Campbell]

Kind of low key Elon there. The odds.

[Rachel Cruz]

May the odds be ever in your favor.

[George Campbell]

Thank you, George. Nice.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's like we can finish each other's sentences.

[George Campbell]

That's amazing right there. James is in shock back there.

[Rachel Cruz]

I love how impressed Ken was with himself for getting that one right.

[George Campbell]

I'm really thrilled. Oh me, me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hold on.

[George Campbell]

I know this one. I can do it. Sentences. Wow. David in Dallas, Texas is where we're going next. David, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, I really appreciate you taking my call. I figured I would start with the numbers if that's okay with y' all.

[George Campbell]

Yes sir.

[Ken Coleman]

I. I have about 246k in debt, 29k is in credit card debt, 9k is in personal loan debt and 200k is in a mortgage. I have a two part question. My take take home recently just increased from about 6,500 to 8,800amonth. And I'm about to start up school in the fall. I was wondering if I should take these subsidized loans to pay the high interest debt off and decrease that interest from about 23 to 7% and just continue making the same payments. Plus the amount my income just recently increased. That's my first question.

[Rachel Cruz]

So let's separate the mortgage from the consumer debt because you're in baby step two and the mortgage comes into play in baby step six. Paying that off early. So that makes this mountain more like a hill. You have a great income and you have less than 40k in debt right between the credit cards and the personal loan.

[Ken Coleman]

Just under. Just. Yep.

[Rachel Cruz]

So what I wouldn't do is think, well, I can get rid of my debt by taking out another debt to pay off the other debt. That's as crazy as it sounds. And I know you're looking at the math because going well, it's a lower interest rate, it'll help me get out of debt faster. But that is a trap that actually keeps People in debt longer and it feels real icky to go. I'm going to take out a student loan under the guise of getting an education, but really I'm paying off credit card debt. So I would encourage you to look, peel back, go 30,000ft up and go. What is the best solution to my current problem, which is I need to go to school for, to get a degree. Is that the purpose?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Now I just want more. It's my current job. Half of my speaking candidly, half of my income is from VA Disability and the other half is from my W2 job. And I just, I want to, I want to have a higher income on my W2. I want to get a degree that gets me somewhere.

[George Campbell]

Okay, but let's, let's just, let's, let's just challenge that just for a minute. I'm all for it if that degree will actually get you where you want to go. What's. I've got a two part question. I always ask people, is a degree the only way to get the job you want or the career path or is it the best way? And I'm just curious if you've mapped out a very specific, let's call it job or a more of a direction professionally. Have you done that?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, it's currently like in the field I'm in medical staffing. And, and I have applied within the industry, within my own company and unfortunately one of the things or the only thing that seems to be holding me back is I don't have the stupid degree under my law.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so in your particular industry to move up the ladder in medical staffing, which is where you want to climb, they are requiring a degree?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, what is that? What's the absolute cheapest you can get that degree for? And I mean cheapest because they really don't care what they're.

[Ken Coleman]

The one I'm doing now, the one I got accepted ASU online.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, and how much is that?

[Ken Coleman]

Eight months left on the VA VA loan. I mean GI bill. So they're going to pay for eight months of that and I'll have to pay out of pocket for the next.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, great. So we can avoid student loan debt completely. Then we're going to cash flow this out of pocket instead of scheming to try to pay off our credit card debt. Okay, great. So here's the deal. You make 8,800amonth. What are your actual expenses? Every month you have to pay.

[Ken Coleman]

I have to pay around 4,500amonth. I. To add to this, I was around 52k in debt a year and a half ago, down to 29 now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Amazing.

[Ken Coleman]

Working hard, job dashing after, after work. I doordash for four to six hours.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good.

[Ken Coleman]

That leads into my second part question after this.

[Rachel Cruz]

So here's the. I'm just showing you the math on a different debt. You just told me that you should have $4,300 extra to throw at your debt every month.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes sir.

[Rachel Cruz]

Which means this thing's gone in less than nine months.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes sir.

[Rachel Cruz]

And at the same time we need a cash flow school.

[Ken Coleman]

I want to save an interest, but yes, correct.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so now we have a new plan. I just want to get clear on the goals here. The goal is to get out of debt and the goal is to get a degree. I don't want to combine the two into this weird like I'm going to take out this debt to pay off another debt. Let's work on cash flowing school while attacking this debt with our corporate current income.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because imagine this, now you graduate completely debt free with no new student loan and you've knocked out the credit card debt and the personal loan. So a year from now you're a new man, you've got money in the bank, no debt to your name and you're going to increase your income.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

So that I, I think once you start thinking longer term, you'll make different decisions versus the kind of out of desperation which is where you're at now going, well, I'm going to try to take out this debt to pay off another debt because the interest, interest is high. Just do the debt snowball. Knock out the smallest debt with all the muster you can find in that budget which is thousands and thousands of dollars and you'll be out of debt in no time and cash flow school.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's the only way I would do it.

[Ken Coleman]

I got one more, the second part to my question.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Of that, of that income, about 1200 to 1500 of it is from doordashing around 30 to 40 hours a week after work my full time job, I have a firstborn baby due in about a month from now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

I was wondering, should I continue to tough it out and dash these 30, 40 hours a week to get knock out this debt or because my income just increased quite a bit, should I take that time back now that I have this baby on the way?

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you have any savings?

[Ken Coleman]

I have very little savings. I have maybe $5,000 roughly in savings.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. What is your wife's plan to work through this after, you know, she's Stay at home.

[Ken Coleman]

She's been stay at home for the past year. And we. That's the way we would both like it when the baby comes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, well, in this case, we would tell you to pause the debt snowball and just stack up cash. So you said it's a month from now?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so just save up as much as possible. That might be another five grand in savings. That gives you ten grand. Once mommy and. And baby are home safe, we can push play on the debt snowball and continue on. Okay, so you're just going to temporary pause in the plan for 30 days, then we'll move on from there and follow the plan. We just told you, do that debt snowball. Knock out the debt and then make sure that we're able to cash flow the rest of school once the GI Bill runs out.

[Ken Coleman]

Gotcha.

[Rachel Cruz]

So some proper planning here will get you out of this whole mess instead of keeping you in it by just taking on new debt to cover other debts instead of the shell game. Yeah, you're in a great.

[Ken Coleman]

I was really struggling with it and I had a feeling I was going to get that, but I. I needed to hear it.

[Rachel Cruz]

We're pretty boring that way.

[Ken Coleman]

Pretty.

[George Campbell]

We're consistent. Yeah. Yeah. You can't. No, no real curveballs coming from us. But, you know, back to. Back to this issue here of how he can go about getting where he wants to get to. I know so many people that still fall into this trap, and I know you talk a lot about traps and trends, but I wanted you to weigh in. A trap that still exists is that I'm not happy where I am financially or professionally, and I need to get a degree. And I just always want to challenge that statement. Is it need or is it. I believe I need or I want to because of a perception. And, and you know, every field is different. We're increasingly seeing companies drop that degree requirement. But, George, I just. I want to make sure that people just don't get sucked into that because you can really talk yourself into debt in this case. We weren't looking at that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure. No, we're on the same page with.

[George Campbell]

That all the time.

[Rachel Cruz]

I always have a huge pause when I hear someone go, well, I want to go back to school. For what? To get a degree. For what? Well, I just think it'll be better for me. We need a very clear goal and a clear why. And like you say, is it the only way and is it the best way?

[George Campbell]

Yeah, it's. That's. It's an automatic question if you look into it. It takes the emotion out of what you think. And then if the answer, by the way, is no to either one of those, great news. There's another one.

[Rachel Cruz]

Pause.

[George Campbell]

George, good show today. Always fun being with you, pal. Thank you, James Charles and our fearless crew. This is the Ramsay.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, you guys. I was shocked to learn that 88 of you out there are sharing the Ramsey show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey101 YouTube playlist. A quick start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsey plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So here's what's inside. What the baby steps are and why they actually work. How the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast. And how to build wealth and invest for the future and so much more. So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube playlist. Copy it, text it, send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I thought this might help. Because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One share, one playlist, one step could change everything for that one person in your life. So click the link, share the Ramsey show, and let's help someone out there start winning with money.