Stop Letting Fear Drive Your Money

Summary

The Ramsey Show – "Stop Letting Fear Drive Your Money"

Date: November 27, 2025
Host: Ken Coleman (KC), co-hosted by Jade Warshaw (JW)
Podcast Theme:
How to regain control of your finances, overcome the fear and shame around money, and break the cycle of debt. Real stories, real callers, and practical plans—featuring emotional coaching on bankruptcy, family dynamics, debt payoffs, mindset, and even entrepreneurial fears.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on breaking the power of fear, shame, and “normal” money mistakes to establish lasting financial peace. Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw field tough, emotional calls—from six-figure-incomes drowning in debt, to twenty-somethings battling family pressure, to the pitfalls of loaning money to loved ones. The hosts share their own experiences, challenge cultural assumptions about credit, and offer step-by-step plans to help listeners attack debt, set boundaries, and future-proof their finances.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Caller: Jessica — $1M in Debt & The Light at the Tunnel

[01:03 – 08:38]

• Jessica faces nearly $1 million in debt: $658k mortgage, $210k unsecured debt (credit cards, personal loans), and two car loans (one severely underwater).
• Household income is ~$259k after her husband’s job transition (down from $300k).
• Stress and guilt around bankruptcy vs. responsibility to pay.
• Jade: “There’s always hope. If you had told me your shovel was $60-70k [income], I’d be hurting. But you have a great shovel.” [02:38]
• Discussion of “mo’ money, mo’ problems”—Jessica’s high income allowed big mistakes.
• Baby Step 2: Focus on consumer debt, not the mortgage yet.
• Urgent advice: Sell the upside-down vehicle, even if it hurts your ego and image.
  • “When you get a beater, it’s gonna mess with your ego… and that's going to be so good for your soul, because that's what's going to cause you never to do this again.” – JW [07:16]
• Momentum Play: Make a radical change for emotional and financial reset.
• Personal stories: Jade and her husband paid off $500k, were a one-car family, and “you get used to anything.”

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2. Caller: Tyler — Boundaries with Parents & Student Loan Dilemma

[10:19 – 18:53]

• Tyler, age 22, being pressured by parents over college refund money (mix of work-study and loan returns).
• Parents are spenders (cars, not helping Tyler), and pressure him to take debt for a truck.
• Ken: “That’s not abuse. That’s just disrespect…stop with this nonsense…you just need to start to do things differently.” [16:27]
• Jade: “You can say, I’m just not gonna do that.”
• Tyler faces $40k in student loans (headed to $80k as a junior at out-of-state school).
• Strong warning: “You are following in those same footsteps…racking up money…it’s gonna be a headache being tied to Mom’s credit.” – JW [17:59]
• Recommendation: Consider in-state tuition, pay cash, decouple from parents financially, question the necessity of debt for degree.
• Both hosts reinforce: “No one cares where you got your degree from.”

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3. Caller: Jennifer — Should I Build My Son’s Credit?

[21:46 – 30:24]

• Jennifer wants to help her 17-year-old son build a credit score for college, car, and future apartment.
• Jade explodes the “credit score myth,” emphasizing a no-debt lifestyle:
  • “Credit scores are about how you interact with debt...not about how you manage real money.” [23:12]
  • Advice: Focus on saving, paying cash for cars, showing bank statements and pay stubs for apartments (may require extra deposit).
• Strong coaching against car payments: “The car payment keeps the middle class, middle class.”
• Fear of not having a credit score for mortgages:
  • Jade: “You can buy a house…with zero credit score. It’s called manual underwriting. I bought my house that way. Not borrowing money isn’t a penalty.” [28:41]
• Ken urges Jennifer to “fact-check” and do her research: “A zero credit score tells people this is someone solid with their money.”

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4. Caller: Randy — Romantic Loans and Relationship Red Flags

[32:34 – 40:01]

• Randy lent his girlfriend $1,700 (he’s a single dad, $20k in debt) and she hasn't paid him back after nine months.
• Debate: Is she taking advantage? Should he pursue repayment?
• “If she thinks you’re ‘the one,’ she’s not in a hurry to pay you back…He’s smitten. She thinks it’s already their money.” – KC [34:54]
• Loaning money to partners is universally discouraged: “It muddies any relationship.”
• Personal anecdotes about loaning/borrowing from significant others.
• “Don’t lend money to friends or family. If you can give it, give it, but if you need it back...don’t do it.” – JW

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5. Caller: Dayton — How to Not Repeat Debt Mistakes

[42:53 – 51:18]

• Dayton and wife paid off $22k years ago, but reaccumulated $103k (kids, house, career change).
• Massive shame, avoiding finances, stress as sole earner.
• Jade: “It’s the ‘I deserve’ mentality…If we’re not careful, that can really do us in.”
• Mindset shift: “What you deserve is to have a good night’s sleep without debt over your shoulder.” [47:59]
• Ken: “Bottle this emotion. Don’t ever want to feel this again, and you control if you ever feel this again. You’re gonna be okay.”

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6. Caller: Laura — Buried by $150k+ Business Credit Card Debt

[52:29 – 61:47]

• Laura and husband closed a failed business, rolled ~$150k onto credit cards and personal loans.
• Still have $200k combined income, plus mortgage, leased cars, private school for their 4-year-old.
• Jade/ Ken: Time for “big time cutbacks”—get rid of lease, sell expensive car, reconsider private school.
• “You’re making a good income. The hard part is not living your income. But the time will come where you get to do that once you clean up the mess.” – JW [61:35]
• Focus on aggressive budgeting, selling assets to create margin, and attacking debt.

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7. Debt-Free Scream: Gary & Melissa

[63:57 – 71:52]

• Paid off $165k in 47 months (income from $160k to $200k).
• Tightened budget, experienced-based family activities instead of spending.
• Used visual milestone trackers: “It was a way to see that work.” [68:13]
• Paid off not just the consumer debt, but their house.
• Involved kids in the journey: “There's more that’s caught than taught.” – Melissa
• Emotional conclusion with everyone shouting: "We’re DEBT FREE!"

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8. Rapid Calls and Hot Topics

Various Times

• Dad asks son for a $20k loan for “business.”
  “Be respectful but say no—don’t give family a loan; it’ll make Thanksgiving taste different.” [81:23]
• Caller starting a real estate media business fears AI’s impact.
  “Learn to use AI, keep human touch at a premium—AI can’t consult, shoot film, or build relationships.” [97:36]
• Caller with $750k liquidity nearing retirement but no house.
  “Stabilize your biggest expense (housing), buy in cash if you can, then invest.”
• Caller Lee laid off, wonders if he should pay off debt or hold cash.
  “Pause debt payoff during unemployment, keep cash, get any gig for income, pay minimums only.” [106:27]
• Older couple anxious about slow house sale.
  “If there’s no financial pressure, be patient. FL market is cooling, but hold until demand returns.” [111:43]
• Caller Laura disabled, afraid work will risk disability benefits.
  “You’ve already proved you can work remote—$20/hr remote job out-earns your disability benefit. Don’t let fear stop you.” [121:16]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You need to do something that’s going to shake you emotionally—that’s what’s going to cause you never to do this again.” – Jade [07:16]
• “Stop saying they’re abusing you…you just need better boundaries. That’s not abuse.” – Ken [16:27]
• “Credit scores are a product. You don’t need one if you pay cash.” – Jade [28:42]
• “Car payments keep the middle class middle class.” – Jade [27:07]
• "You're not a deadbeat. You're not a bad man. You made a bad decision. Welcome to the club." – Ken [51:01]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Jessica’s $1M Debt Call: [01:03 – 08:38]
• Tyler on Parental Pressure & Loans: [10:19 – 18:53]
• Credit Score for Teens Debate: [21:46 – 30:24]
• The Romantic Loan Dilemma: [32:34 – 40:01]
• Dayton’s Debt Mindset Reset: [42:53 – 51:18]
• Laura’s Credit Card Business Crisis: [52:29 – 61:47]
• Debt-Free Family Scream: [63:57 – 71:52]
• AI & Small Business Fears: [94:02 – 99:04]
• Disability, Work, and Ivy League Choices: [115:42 – 124:05]

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Tone and Style

Direct, hopeful, sometimes tough-love, always practical and empathetic. Ken and Jade push listeners to face reality, challenge societal debt norms, and do the hard, unusual things for true freedom. They mix relatable personal stories with clear action steps and, above all, reinforce that “normal is broke”—but there’s always a way out.

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Final Takeaway

Don’t let fear, family pressure, or shame be the driving force of your money decisions. You can dig out—with a plan, boundaries, and a willingness to be “weird.” Whether you're at rock bottom or just wanting a better future, clarity and community are possible—one weird, debt-free step at a time.

Transcript

[Ken Coleman]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. So excited to have you with us. 888, 825. 5225 is the phone. Jump in. 888, 825. 5225. Alongside the fabulous, the incomparable Jade Warshaw. I am.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

My friend, Ken Coleman. Just happy to be in her presence, folks. It's going to be good. Fresh off of Orlando. We might talk a little bit about that. We'll see. Landing Orlando. I can't speak now. And Chicago.

[Jade Warshaw]

Chi Town.

[Ken Coleman]

Couple live events. So much fun. We are feeling the juice from those two great crowds. Jessica is up in Arkansas. Jessica, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, Good morning or good afternoon. I'm sitting at just a tad bit under a million dollars in debt. Almost 200 of that is unsecured. And we were contemplating bankruptcy. But my faith tells me that I should be paying all this, and I know I should. And I'm just. I guess I'm trying to see if there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Jade Warshaw]

Us, there's always hope.

[Ken Coleman]

Why don't you lay it out for us? Give us the whole 1 million in debt. What is that?

[Caller]

So 210 is unsecured personal loans. 83 of that, 210 is credit cards. The house is 658.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then there's two vehicles that. There's two vehicles in there. One's almost paid off. And then the other one is very, very upside down.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell us the amounts. The first. And the second.

[Caller]

One is we owe 12,000 on it. And the other one is 59,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, and how much do you know off the top of your head what that 59,001 is worth?

[Caller]

35.

[Jade Warshaw]

Girlfriend. Okay. How much do you guys earn? It's you and your husband?

[Caller]

Yes. And he is in a job transition, so we were making over 300. Now we're at sitting at about 259 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good. That's. Listen, there's your light at the end of the tunnel. Right there is. If you had told me that your shovel was 60 or 70,000, I'd be really hurting with you. But the good news is you have a really great shovel. 259. And you said that's with or without the job loss.

[Caller]

That's with the job loss and his job is going to be commission only, so we haven't, we don't know what that's going to look like yet. It could be amazing.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you May, you make 259.

[Caller]

We have some retirement funds in there from military.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how much of that is the military? Like how much of that is your income and how much of that is like pension type stuff?

[Caller]

About half.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good. That is really, really, really, really, really good news. Tell me about the 210,000. Was this a business loan? What, what was that money for?

[Caller]

It was a little bit of everything, honestly. It was some bad business endeavors, me trying to be a serial entrepreneur. It was some just in general imposter syndrome. I took, took a fantastic career opportunity and I just kind of shopped my way through the imposter syndrome until I got to therapy.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so that was some bad financial decisions there. Luxury shopping. And then I took over. I took out two personal loans to clear my husband's credit card debt as well. So that's what all that is.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is like classic mo money, mo problems, Right. This is you had a big income and so you could afford to make bigger mistakes. Right. But really, when we boil it down, Ken, this ratio wise, it's the same call we always hear, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So that's the good news is, you know, you've got 260,000 in income right now. It's going to go up exponentially. And you got, you know, I'm not counting the mortgage debt because when we're in Baby Step 2, which is the step where you're paying off all the consumer debt, we really don't count the mortgage. So can you tell me how much your monthly mortgage payment is so I can see what percentage of your life it is?

[Caller]

3938.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And so that's going to be fine with what you're bringing home so that the mortgage is not the problem. And I just wanted to explain that to you. It's no more than 25% of your take home. So that's not the issue. The problem is you, you feel overwhelmed because no matter how you slice it, if you, if you tell somebody you have $300,000 of debt, that that's a lot, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Are you familiar with our debt snowball?

[Caller]

Yes. I actually did it probably about 20 years ago and I, the only that I carried up until three years ago was a mortgage and a car payment. And I would usually pay the car payment, you know, double or whatever.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, are you okay? We get that. But let's talk about the now, because your question is, is there a light at the end of the tunnel? The answer is yes, if you're willing to look for. And so are you done now? Are you done? Is this the last time you're ever gonna do this?

[Caller]

Oh, for sure. Okay, So I can't do this again.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So in this situation, my take is I would try to get massive momentum, you know, and Jade can speak to this. I'm gonna give it back to her quickly because she and Sam paid off $500,000 in debt. So you got the perfect person to talk to today. But here's my only thing that I would say, and I'll hand the baton back to you, Jade. I think they need a momentum play, like a big one. And so I would be attack. I would try to get rid of the $59,000 car payment instantly. Like, even if they go upside down, you can tell her how we do it. But I, I, I just think there needs to be a dramatic move. I don't know what your take is, having done this yourself.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I, I agree with Ken 100%. You do. You need to do something that's going to shake you emotionally, that's going to shake you financially, that's going to almost like, it's like the gun going off of the race. Right. And I, I agree with ke. You guys need to pull together, and I mean, with your income, in a couple of short months, pull together that 24,000 that you're upside down on this vehicle and get out of it and, you know, drive the $12,000 vehicle for a while, figure out a plan to save up another, you know, couple thousand dollars to get you a beater. And here's the thing. I'm going to be 100% straight with you. You're used to making a lot of money. When you get a beater, it's going to mess with your ego big time, because in your mind, you're going to go, wait a minute. I work too hard to be driving a car like this. Wait a minute. Nobody at my work drives a car like this or nobody in my social circle, Right? Because you start hanging out with who you earn money with, right? And so you're going to be the one. And it is going to create questions, and it's your choice whether you answer those questions. But I'm just letting you know right now, Jessica, that's going to happen. And there's going to be an incongruency for a while with the how hard I'm working and how much money I'm earning versus the lifestyle I'm living. And I'm telling you that as a person who did that for quite a while, and that's going to be so good for your soul, because that's what's going to cause you never to do this again. You're going to go, oh, my gosh, I never want to feel that again.

[Ken Coleman]

Seriously. I think it's right. And, you know, not trying to steal too much of your story, but, I mean, Sam and I were hanging out last night, Jade says, and he reminded me you guys had one car for a long time.

[Jade Warshaw]

We didn't get a second car until a year into working here.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but that was just because you adjusted to it. I did, but during the massive debt payoff, you guys were one car family, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you said it, Ken. We got used to it.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. You did fine.

[Jade Warshaw]

You get used to anything, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

You could be making multiple six figures and get used to whatever lifestyle you create.

[Ken Coleman]

So, yeah, that's hilarious to me that you were here for a year before you got wheels.

[Jade Warshaw]

And even still, I was a little reluctant. I was like, we. We don't need it. Listen, now get me that. Get me that G wagon. I'm ready, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

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[Jade Warshaw]

So you don't need to live in.

[Ken Coleman]

Fear, but you do need to be smart about protecting your identity from thieves. So go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282 and get yourself protected today. Tyler is up next in Knoxville. Tennessee. Tyler, how can we help?

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet.

[Caller]

So I'm currently 22 years old, and I'm struggling with the fact that my parents are kind of financially abusing me. I've been following the Ramsey baby steps. I'm currently reading the Total Money Makeover book. And I got my refund from school about in May, and it was close to about $4,000, exactly $3,999. And I used that money to pay off my Klarina debt, my car payment, and as well, a little bit of my credit card payment. And they weren't really happy about that. They were just absolutely furious about me saying that that was their money and about how the hard work they did to here and everything like that. And my head's just spinning about it.

[Ken Coleman]

And I'm not sure what to do. Hold on, hold on. The money was from. Was a tax refund for money that you did? Like W2 money?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, sir, it was a refund.

[Caller]

School refund, correct?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. But they paid. Did they pay for the school. School refund or did you pay for it?

[Caller]

So they were helping me through financial aid. We took out a loan and as well, just through whatever else, federal work study as well.

[Jade Warshaw]

So was this. Let me. Let me clarify, because the key word in student loans is refund, and refund sometimes means you took out a loan and the loan was too much for what school actually costs, and so they gave you the money back in cash, but it is still loaned money. Does that make sense? So was this money that was still loaned money, or was this actual cash that you had from doing work study and you were given that as payment? Clarify that for me.

[Ken Coleman]

I believe it was a little both.

[Caller]

From the work study and from the loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and whose name is on the loan? Moms and dads or yours? Who's the. Who's the signer on the loan?

[Caller]

It's mom and then me. I believe I'm the cosigner on it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so what. Where I'm seeing here is there's a lack of clarity on what's going on. So we do need to have that, because you need to know if you receive $4,000, if it's student loan money, you should know that because you have the right to be like, oh, my gosh, I don't want to be on the hook for that. I'm not going to use debt to pay off debt. Right. So understanding that's important, but it's spilled milk at this point. I can understand if it was Loan money. If your mom was like, wait a minute, you took this loan money that we're both on the hook for to do this thing without consulting both of us because we're both on this loan. So I can see that. So I want to put that out there. But you used a really big word earlier when you said, mom and dad are abusing me with the money.

[Ken Coleman]

I see no evidence of that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Show us that. Let us hear about that.

[Caller]

The reason why I say that is because, one, when I got that money, my first instinct was obviously to put it towards my debt. And my. Both. My parents are both spenders. My dad works in the oil field. My mom doesn't work anymore. So I'm currently in. I'm in another state from tech. I'm from Texas originally. I'm in another state working as well as in school, trying to pay all this stuff and all the things I can do, and they're helping me financially. But it's always about money, money, money. My bought a brand new Mercedes. My dad spends money constantly on his new truck.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, what's that got to do with you? But what's that got to do with you?

[Caller]

It's just a money struggle. They've always been haggling me for money as well as asking when I ask for money if I need it, they just never give it to me. Or they're 50, 50 on it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so.

[Ken Coleman]

But that's not abuse.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's not. I don't think it's abuse. Like what I'm hearing, Ken, is. And correct me if I'm wrong, Tyler, what I'm hearing is your parents are spenders. It seems like they always have the money when it's time for something for them, but when it's something for you, it's a big deal. And it also sounds like they've hit you up for money. Maybe you had your job in high school. And they're like, hey, let me. Can you spot me a 20? That kind of thing. And they never paid you back? Is that type of thing.

[Caller]

Like, recently they've been wanting me to get a truck, and they want me to help pay a down payment. And I've been telling them that I don't want to do this. Okay, then you don't have to do it.

[Jade Warshaw]

You don't have to do it. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Your parents. You're 22 now. Your parents can make suggestions. They can even try to, like, strong arm you to do things their way, but you don't have to. My Guy like you can say, I'm just not gonna do that. And that might be them being. Pushing some boundaries, kind of being, you know, a little disrespectful. But I wouldn't go the line of. Of abuse. Would you, Ken? I. I don't know that I would go to that line.

[Ken Coleman]

I would. You're being very nice. I've heard enough. Listen, Tyler, there's two things, okay? Number one, I actually get your instinct and your instinct to take that money and put it on debt. Great instinct.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's a good instinct. Wrong move, like, right idea.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm getting there. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. I'm saying it was the right instinct, but you should have communicated with the parents because they're involved in this financially. You can do both and also be frustrated with them for all the stuff you're frustrated with them about and how they handle money. I see all of this together, but the reality is, is that you and Jade's right. You're 22 now. So now we begin the separation, and now we create a little bit better boundaries.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you're right. You're right.

[Ken Coleman]

And she's right. You should have communicated much better on this deal. What's done is done. But let me be very clear. You need to stop saying they're financially abusing you, because this is not anywhere close to it. I'm not.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's just disrespect.

[Ken Coleman]

It's dramatic. And by the way, words matter. So when we think that our mom and dad are abusing us, and then we tell somebody and we tell two hosts on the radio, big giant show, then we've now become. We've come to believe something that's just simply not true. And then that colors how you handle things. They already handle money in a way that will continue to create tension for you going forward. That's clear. And by the way, good on you, young man, to go. I don't want to live that way.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

So I like the direction you're headed. All that to say. Stop with this nonsense. Stop thinking it, Stop saying it. Stop feeling as though your parents are abusing you. They're not. And you just need to start to do things differently.

[Jade Warshaw]

You do. And honestly, how much are the student loans?

[Caller]

So as of this moment, I checked last night it was roughly about 40. 40,000. But going into next year, I will be a junior, so it's going to be tacked on roughly maybe about 80,000. I transferred to the University of Tennessee.

[Jade Warshaw]

Here. Here's what I need for You. Here's what. Here's my. We took some time talking about mom and dad. I want to talk about Tyler for a minute because you were talking about mom and dad's bad money decisions, bad money habits. Tyler, you are following in those footsteps right now because you are taking on debt and you're going to an out of state school and you're doing all this thing just racking up money. And I know that you're young, but you gotta stop doing that because you're gonna come out of this thing with $80,000 of debt. And what's gonna make it even more of a headache is you're gonna be tied to mama and so mama's gonna be breathing down your neck every month talking about where's the payment? You're messing up my credit. Da da da da da. And that is gonna jack you and her. That's a great point. If I were in your shoes, I, I would be thinking long and hard about can I, do I need this degree? Do I need to be out of state for this degree? Can I do it in my home state where I have in state tuition? And can I do it someplace where I'm paying, going at the speed of cash? I'm getting a job. I'm doing work study. Because $80,000 is a lot of money, especially when it's tied up with mom and dad.

[Ken Coleman]

This is a great point because they overextend themselves all the time and that's why that tension around money is always there. They have a scarcity mindset. That's what you described and so tied to that. It's going to make your life miserable. So we prefer you not to have any more student loans. But if you're going to do student loans, do it without mom and dad.

[Jade Warshaw]

Attached at the very least and do it in states so that it at the very least. Listen, don't hear me say get student loans, but do you see what I'm saying?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yes, I understand what both of you all saying and I've done the math as well. Even when I originally did transfer, if I was looking back at other schools, and some schools were the exact same price of the same major that I wanted compared to here and it came at sports management, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, there's two ways to skin this one. You know, there are a lot of people that would argue with me and debate me on you need a degree in sports management. And that's probably statistically true, not knowing that major super well. However, I know it's possible to get any of those Jobs without a degree. Because I can point to example after example. You got to get in. You got to get in. You got to. You got to sweep floors. You got to be a janitor. And then you work your way up to doing some type of analyst work. So it's possible to get into sports management without a degree. But I can tell you that my partner's right. Today, nobody cares where you get your degree from.

[Jade Warshaw]

They sure don't.

[Ken Coleman]

So listen, I know what UT costs for in state students. I can't imagine what it costs for out of state students.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tyler.

[Ken Coleman]

There's a better way.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tyler. No one has ever asked me where I went to school.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm not even allowed to tell anybody anymore. She made me stop talking about it.

[Jade Warshaw]

No one's ever even asked me what I got my degree in. Ever.

[Ken Coleman]

What'd you get your degree in?

[Jade Warshaw]

Music. Commercial music.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that makes sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

Concentration on vocal performance.

[Ken Coleman]

And now you're best selling author. What a waste. What a waste of time and money. You know, when I became a dad, something flipped. Suddenly it wasn't just about me and my wife anymore. It was what happens to my family if I'm not here tomorrow. And things like that just hit different when you become a parent. But I'll be honest, making a will feels heavy and complicated. And it's not exactly what I want to be doing with my time off. But here's the deal. Being a parent means doing the hard stuff, especially stuff that protects your family. And that's why I used Mama Bear legal forms. No hassle, no lawyers, just a simple online tool that helped me create a legit will in about 20 minutes. So it was pretty much painless. Plus, I added a notch to my dad belt right there between installing car seats and bedtime stories. Listen, being a dad never stops. And making a will is how you make sure your family's covered, even when you're not there. So get your will done [e-mail] and use the promo code Ramsey to save 20% off when you check out again. That's Mama Bearlegalforms.com promo code Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, and Jade Warshaw is joining me here in the studio here of the Ramsey show. So excited that you're with us. 888-255-2225. Is the the phone number 888-255-2225? You got questions about income? Feeling stuck, feeling a little stale and want to make some moves? I'll coach you on that. Got Your money problems. Jade's got you on that. And we combine as well. Let's go to Jennifer, who's in Jackson, Mississippi. Jennifer, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Yes, I just have a real quick question. I have a son who is 17, about turn 18, and my credit score is 830, and my husband's is like 780. And we want to start him off on the right track of having a good credit, much like we do. And I was just wondering if there was a particular credit card or how y' all would maybe suggest helping him get and obtain a good credit score as well.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I've never heard that question on the show before, actually. Really think I have.

[Jade Warshaw]

I've gotten it a couple of times. Jennifer, when did you start listening?

[Caller]

I just started, like about a month ago.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, great.

[Ken Coleman]

That makes sense. Okay. Yes. Welcome aboard.

[Jade Warshaw]

So what is it that. What are you hoping he'll be able to do with that credit score? I just want to learn a little bit more about your intent here.

[Caller]

Well, I just want to know that when he. He is also about to start college. He's a senior in high school now, and so he'll be starting college. And I know that he'll need, you know, we bought him his first vehicle, but I know that down the road that he'll need to get a vehicle and possibly be able to have to rent an apartment for college and this, that, and the other. So I just want to make sure that he has a good enough credit score to be able to get the things that he would need to get, like a vehicle later down the road or maybe an apartment or something like that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, here's. I'll be honest with you. Here's why I don't like credit scores, and here's why I don't. I've never focused on one. And for, you know, for all intents and purposes, I don't believe in them at all. Because you have to have debt. You have to interact with debt in order to have a credit score. And we also know that when you borrow money, the borrower slave to the lender. And so there's this part of the credit score that it has never. It doesn't make sense to me because it's all about how you interact with debt. How much debt you have, what types of debt you've had, how long you've had your debt, what percentage of your debt that you're using. Right. It's all nobody's asking questions about. Can you actually afford the item? How are you managing that the cash that you actually in, the money that is actually yours, that is in your bank account. And so that's why I have an issue with the credit score. What I would love is for you to teach him a way that says, okay, if you have the money, you can afford it. If you don't have the money, right, you can't afford it. Now let's go back to the things you talked about.

[Caller]

He is a very good saver right now. So he only works part time, like, two days a week. And he has since this past summer. And he's already saved, like, almost $3,000 and has love that. Purchased like a. Like, he's purchased, like, a $2,000 CD and this, that, and the other. So, I mean, we have taught him, like, you do your 10% time, then you have some that you put in this much, you put in savings, and this much is like your fun money. So he's done that. But what I mostly worry about is, like, once he gets off to college and he has to rent an apartment. I know a lot of apartments look at credit scores, and if he doesn't have one, they may be like, we can't rent to you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, the truth is, you're right. A lot of credit card or a lot of apartments do look at your credit history, but a lot of them don't. And the ones that do, if you simply go to them and say, hey, here's the thing. I know you guys look at credit scores. I have a zero credit score, which means that I don't borrow money because I don't believe in debt. But I also brought a copy of my bank account, and you can see how much money that I have here, so I'm good for the money. I also brought you my pay stubs so you can see how I work. And, you know, if you. If you kind of dig deeper and also let them know, hey, they might charge you a little bit more for first and last month's rent. But the truth is, you may have to do a little bit of due diligence to find people who believe the same things you believe and can actually understand. Hey, I actually have money because those apartment complexes are out there. So let's check that one off the list. And then if we talk about the car, well, I don't know about you, but I'd rather him buy a car in cash and not have payments. Thank you. Put money down and be loaded, loaded up with a car payment. Because now we're teaching him, hey, if you want a car, you have to Pay payments on it as opposed to teaching him, hey, if you want a car, let's buy one in cash. You got $5,000, 3,000 saved in 2000 in a CD. Once that CD is available, let's buy $5,000 car in cash. And then in a year or two, if you want to Upgrade and add $3,000 more with it, now you're driving an $8,000 car and let's do that. And so that you can always have your money freed up. Because one of the things we've learned, Jennifer, is the car payment is what keeps middle class middle class. Most people are walking around here with a 700amonth car payment. And because they have that car payment, it's tough for them to do things like invest for their future. And so I'd love to set him up with the mentality that I keep my biggest wealth building tool, which is my income at my disposal. I don't give it away in payments every month. And therefore if I'm not in debt, I don't need debt, which means I don't need a credit score. Okay, It's a new way of thinking. I know that it is because people don't talk about it.

[Caller]

It is, it's, it's, it's scary. It's scary new way of thinking. But yes, I, I see your point.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell me the fear.

[Ken Coleman]

I, it's not scary. What are you scared of?

[Caller]

Yeah, it goes, it goes beyond the rent because so college are only be four years and then after that it'll be, he'll probably want to buy a house. And I know it's a lot harder to, you know, obtain a house with no credit score and save up for, you know.

[Ken Coleman]

So let me, let me, let me break in and I want my colleague to tell you about that fear. Go ahead, explain it.

[Jade Warshaw]

What if I told you that's not true? Jennifer, I love this call so much. I'm so glad you're with us because you are every woman USA right now. Calling in the truth is credit scores, they benefit from us, right? They benefit from us being in debt. They make money off that. When we, when, when you get a credit card, when you sign up for a loan, there's a little thing called interest. And so there's a lot of people making money off of that. And so that's why you don't see on TV people advertising 0 credit scores because nobody's making money off of that. And so this whole thing is a product. But the truth is you can buy a house, it's no Harder. You can buy a house with a zero credit score. It's called manual underwriting. And it's the same thing. Like I told you at the apartment complex, all they do, it's literally the same process, but all they're, instead of looking at your credit score, they're looking at your actual money and they're going, okay.

[Caller]

And I've never heard of that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know, but it's true. Do you want to know that I bought my house with manual underwriting? I had a zero credit score. And so just to clarify, not, not just for you, but anybody listening, a zero credit score is not the same as a bad credit score.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

A bad credit score is. You haven't done well borrowing money. And so you have a bad credit score or a low credit score. A zero credit score is just as good as, as a high credit score. It simply means I don't borrow money. And if you were to look at my credit report, it would say indeterminable. And so there are plenty of places. Churchill Mortgage is one that we talk about all the time. They're everywhere in the United States except New York and Alaska. And they do manual underwriting. And literally all they look at, I'm going to tell you right now, they look for 12 months of trade lines. And that could be you pay your cell phone bill, you pay your utilities, that sort of thing online or, I'm sorry, on time. They look for 12 months of your rental history. So if he goes to rent, he just needs to show 12 months, I paid my rent on time. And then they want to see your.

[Caller]

I'm sorry, I just said, huh?

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And then they want to see what you made over the last year. And they'll ask for your pay stubs just like anything else. And then they go, okay, great. And if he happens to be self employed, they might ask him for his tax returns, but that is it. And I just want to clear the air for anybody. You're, you're helping so many people right now because a lot of people don't know that this is a thing. And it 100% is. And once you know that, all of a sudden it's weird because, Ken, the credit score don't mean a thing but a chicken wing at that point.

[Ken Coleman]

So true. And I love what you just said. The zero credit score tells people this is somebody who's very solid with their money, and that's all they care about is are they going to get paid.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So when you prove as Jade, you know, really laid out, well, that you can pay. Your son's got nothing to worry about. So that fear is natural, Jennifer. But it's because you've never heard what she just laid out. Most people never have. But she's right. Go do your homework on it. Check her on it, I promise you. Oh, yeah, it's popular to do these days. Fact check us. I think you'll like what you see. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. It's open enrollment time for health insurance. And if you have ever felt overwhelmed.

[Jade Warshaw]

Trying to figure out your health care costs, you are not alone. For a lot of families, health care.

[Ken Coleman]

Is one of the biggest line items in the budget. And it gets more confusing every year. But you don't have to settle. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a biblical and budget friendly alternative to health insurance and I am proud to recommend them. With chm, you are joining a community of believers who actually help share each other's medical bills. Yeah, it's true. Members have shared over $12 billion in healthcare costs since CHM started nearly 45 years ago.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's simple.

[Ken Coleman]

You choose your provider with no network limits.

[Jade Warshaw]

You submit your eligible bills online and.

[Ken Coleman]

Other members help share your expenses. CHM has program options for every stage of life, whether you're single, self employed.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or raising a family.

[Ken Coleman]

Y', all. Open enrollment has a lot of people.

[Jade Warshaw]

Scrambling right now, but CHM lets you join anytime.

[Ken Coleman]

So go to chministries.orgbudget to check them out. That's chministries.orgbudget. all right, time for our Ramsey show Question of the day, which is brought to you by why Refi defaulted? Private student loans could feel like a wall you'll never be able to climb. But why Refi may be able to help you get over it. They'll work with you to explore a payment plan tailored to your situation. You can go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, today's question comes from Randy in Delaware. He says, I've been seeing a lady for over a year and she has borrowed over seventeen hundred dollars from me that she has not paid back. I'm a singer. Oh. I'm a single father with over $20,000 in debt. My wife passed away and I'm living on just my salary. I have a 9 year old son and my daughter is 24. I am serious about this lady, but it bothers me that she has not fulfilled her promise to pay back my $1700 after nine months. How do I approach her about this concern?

[Ken Coleman]

Randy, listen. Oh, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

Randy, sometimes I read these questions ahead of time and sometimes I don't because I just want to feel the impact in the moment.

[Ken Coleman]

What are you feeling right now?

[Jade Warshaw]

Feeling impacted.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

How? Well, it's two parts to this, Randy. There's two parts to this. A, you lent her the money. And whenever you loan money, there's always a risk, right? There's a risk that the person's not going to repay it. That's the biggest risk. And then the secondary risk is that because they don't repay it or even if they do, it will affect the relationship in some adverse way. Right? Those are the two biggies of why we say don't loan money. And you hit the nail on the head on both of them. Number one, she's kind of being a scrub and not paying the money back. And how are you supposed to feel good about this relationship? Because now it has the ability to create, like, a little bit of bitterness. You take her out on a. Randy takes. Let's call her, you know, Sheila. Randy takes Sheila out on a date. Let's call her Sally. Randy takes Sally out on a date. He's not going to feel good about picking up her steak dinner. He's already bothered.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna tell you, okay? I'm gonna talk to Randy like I would be talking to Randy if he showed up here and we had a cup of coffee. I would look at Randy and I'd say, randy, I'm gonna tell you what the problem is. You are serious about this woman, Sally, aren't you? He'd go, yeah, I'm serious about it. I go, yeah. And she knows it, doesn't she? And he would go, she knows it. She's not paying the 1700 back ever. Because Sally. Is that her name?

[Jade Warshaw]

Sally, Sally, Sally, Sheila. Sally ride.

[Ken Coleman]

Sally is banking on closing the deal.

[Jade Warshaw]

What, you think?

[Ken Coleman]

I know. I know what's going on. He has made her feel like she's the one. He told us in a simple email that he is serious about her. She knows he's serious. She thinks the 1700 is already their money and he's gonna forgive it because he's gonna put a ring on.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know. Sally could be a rolling stone. Sally could be a rolling stone. That's like, hey, Sally is. I'm just here for a little while.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, Let me flip this for a second. I might get in trouble for this with you, but I'm gonna do it, okay?

[Jade Warshaw]

Get in trouble.

[Ken Coleman]

If you and Sam Were dating. Okay. This is not you and Sam. Real life, but this is you and Sam.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay?

[Ken Coleman]

This is male, female.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got you. Got you. And I'm with you.

[Ken Coleman]

Sam loaned you seventeen hundred dollars and you had not paid it back. Same deal, nine months. You're a human being. This isn't a Jade or Sally. This is a human being and a woman who feels like her man is serious about her. Are you going to be in a hurry? Is any woman going to be in a hurry to pay the $1700 back?

[Jade Warshaw]

I think if I really.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you think that you guys are going to be an item and get married?

[Jade Warshaw]

If I was on, like, if I was dating Sam, that means I'm like, I've got respect. And not that I would ever do this, but if I had borrowed money, I feel like it's a great opportunity for me to.

[Ken Coleman]

If you think he's gonna pop the question.

[Jade Warshaw]

I am.

[Ken Coleman]

You're gonna pay that back. If you think you're gonna be two instead of one. Come on. This is a human question.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'll tell you. It's hard for me to put myself in that position because I can't even imagine being in that position.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna tell you what's going on. This woman feels like.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think he's in love with her.

[Ken Coleman]

And because he's in love with her, she doesn't have to pay the money back because it's their money. There's a guy in the lobby with his thumb up in the air. He knows I'm spitting truth right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

But then why would they even, like.

[Ken Coleman]

Why he should have never lent her.

[Jade Warshaw]

But why would they even come up with those terms if they were on. On that level at that point? It's just like, terms. Well, he's clearly saying, like, she was supposed to pay it off within a. Within a term because it's been after.

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Past nine months.

[Ken Coleman]

No, it wasn't a term. He's saying. He's saying here, it's been nine months. Where's my money, honey? Yeah, but the problem is, she said to him in a moment of weakness, I need 17.

[Jade Warshaw]

But my point is this. My point is he gave it to.

[Ken Coleman]

Her, and now she's never gonna pay him.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ken, you don't go 2015 Rihanna talking about, pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot to the woman you love and want to marry. You don't do that.

[Ken Coleman]

I know that's what. Well, but that's the point I'm making. He needs to reconcile the fact he's never getting this money. So he needs to close the deal. Close the deal and then get rid of the resentment or it's gonna end badly. Is what I'm getting at. My point is, is I'm not throwing shade at Sally Sheila or whatever you called her. I'm saying I think this is a pretty typical human behavior when you're in a pretty close relationship that he's. He's the last person she's thinking about paying back. Oh, here's my other point.

[Jade Warshaw]

You don't borrow money.

[Ken Coleman]

I know. Yeah, he's already done it. So I'm saying to him, pal, you need to marry this woman.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think I'm. I'm just going out here.

[Ken Coleman]

She's not getting the money back.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I'm the exact opposite. I think she's a rolling stone. I think that he's vulnerable and because he's gone through a lot and found a nice looking lady and it's taking a little bit of advantage, but she has no.

[Ken Coleman]

And would you also. Okay. Would you also agree she probably has other debts.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

That are much bigger than what she owes this poor.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what I'm saying. He's never getting the money back. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

He's not getting it. Hands up if you agree with me in the lobby. Look at this. This is real time.

[Jade Warshaw]

You guys are really giving this lady a lot of credit. I'm giving her zero credit.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm just saying she's not. She's never paying it back. That's what they agree.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, she's not. Like, I agree she's never paying it back, but I also don't think they're getting married. Raise your hand if you think they're gonna actually end up getting married. Okay, see, there you go. There you go. So.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, now in this case, he. Well, now this changes everything. See, I wasn't even going that far down the road. I was telling him to cut his losses.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

But now if like they cut their relationship losses, he needs to do that sooner rather than later.

[Jade Warshaw]

Agree.

[Ken Coleman]

But I think he's smitten.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, well, she's shown a piece of. I feel like she's. If, if what you're saying is true, I feel like she's shown a piece of herself because there's a little integrity there because they're not married yet. He hasn't even proposed yet. Be one thing, if it was his fiance. He doesn't even propose. If you borrow money, you should pay it back, whether it be to.

[Ken Coleman]

But you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Credit card company, your grandma, you know Whoever it is, if you borrow money, pay it.

[Ken Coleman]

But relationship one on one here, you shouldn't even borrow money or lend money to your fiance. You would agree with that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I would agree with that. I am a. Like, I have a hard line on that. I think that if you would like to give someone money and you have the money to give, you should give it. In his case, it doesn't even sound like he didn't. He clearly did not have the money to give. That's why he made it alone. And I think that's. When you get into hot water, is if you don't have it to give, sometimes you can't give it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's just hard. You know, when people you love are.

[Ken Coleman]

Asking, if Stacy and I were dating and she asked me for money, I'd say, honey, you gotta marry me because it's all yours at that point anyway. Until then, I'm not loaning you a nickel. I mean, I'm just telling you.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'll tell you what Sam Warshaw did do. This is a bad. This is. Don't do this. He. Okay, my car. I was driving a Jeep Liberty, and the. The AC and the heat on it was bad. And so when winter came, my heat wasn't working. And he got in my car and was like, you've been driving around like this? And I'm like, yeah. He's like, I'm gonna get you a car. And I thought he was being a hero. He co. Signed a car for me.

[Ken Coleman]

This is pre. You guys getting out of here?

[Jade Warshaw]

No. We weren't even married. We weren't even married.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, you were dating?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, he co. Signed a car for me. We were. You all.

[Caller]

We were just.

[Ken Coleman]

About this part of your story? Yeah, this is all part of you.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's what I'm saying, like, seeing the light. That's why I'm saying, like, you might be right, that he was smitten. Because I think that a guy like love goggles will make you do anything.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what Sam did with you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, but it's a good thing I married.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a fact.

[Jade Warshaw]

Married him.

[Ken Coleman]

Otherwise, here's the problem with our guy. What's this guy's name?

[Jade Warshaw]

Randy.

[Ken Coleman]

Randy. Listen, here's the problem. Every guy wants to be the knight on the horse.

[Jade Warshaw]

Exactly. Knight in shining armor.

[Ken Coleman]

And it's. It's one of our kryptonite problems. And this girl bat her eyes at him, and she cried, and he swooned and gave her seventeen hundred dollars, and he might as well lit it on fire.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, not getting that money back.

[Ken Coleman]

Just don't do it ever. It muddies any relationship, whether it's romantic or any kind of relationship. Don't give friends or family a loan. Times are tight and one of the easiest ways to save more money right now is to stop overpaying for your phone plan. Boost Mobile gives you one low monthly price, just $25 a month for unlimited talk, text and data. And that price never goes up with Boost. There are no contracts and they're so sure you'll love it. They've got a 30 day money back guarantee. So take the easy win and switch [e-mail] Ramsey that's boostmobile.com restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Dayton is joining us now from Vancouver. Dayton, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey there, guys. Yeah, calling in, just, I'll make it as brief as I can. It's a bit of a mindset kind of thing. My wife and I, quite a few years ago, we had quite a bit of debt, about 22,000. And we had worked hard to pay that off. And then since then we've had three kids, bought a house and a lot of things have happened and racked up quite a bit more debt. My mindset question to you is what are some ways that we can kind of protect ourselves from doing this again? We're just starting the baby steps and we don't want to get out of debt and then get back into it. There's a lot of shame around, like sticking to our budget, like looking at our finances and stuff. So I'm just wondering if you guys can kind of help us with the mindset of getting out and staying out.

[Jade Warshaw]

So my first question would be when you, back in the day, when you paid off the 22,000, what did it, what did it look like to pay that off? Did it, was it painful or was it kind of like, we're going to do this? And once it was done, it was done.

[Caller]

Initially it was kind of painful, like, I can't believe I did this. Credit card company saw me coming from a mile away at 18. And then I just worked. I was at a job where I could work tons of overtime. So I pretty much worked seven days a week, 60, 70 hours a week kind of thing. And we just, we worked through it and it felt really good. When we got out of debt, it was, it was a grind getting through it.

[Ken Coleman]

How long did that take?

[Caller]

I was able to pay that off in about 11 months, I think it was.

[Ken Coleman]

So without giving us too long of a story, what happened? Because you said, and then things happened and we accumulated debt again. What type of things?

[Caller]

Well, in that window, pretty much right after that, we got married, and then we had our first child, and then we had our second child. And then I did a career change that cost me quite a bit of money to go to school down in Texas. And then we bought a house, and then we had a third child. And, you know, when you buy a house to make it what you want it, he ended up spending money thinking that it's going to be okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So what kind of career change was this? What are you doing now?

[Caller]

I'm a firefighter now.

[Ken Coleman]

And what did that cost you?

[Caller]

Cost me about $20,000 to get into that.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you still have a loan on that?

[Caller]

No. So. Well, yeah, I guess it's part of my. One of my line of credits. I used to get into that.

[Ken Coleman]

And so I'm hearing one of your line of credits and that's what we did to make the house great for three kids.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Interesting. Yeah. I'm just thinking about what you're saying. And first off, you haven't paid off the 103 yet. Right. So you haven't allowed yourself to go through that process. I'm one. I'm a person that. I think everything is in the process. The first time it took you about 11 months. The truth is, the debt wasn't that drastic. It probably was uncomfortable to pay it off. But you were able to do it. I think now because more is on the line and you're going to feel this one a lot more because it's you, it's your wife, it's your kids, and you're going to have to change your lifestyle, which you're going to feel that. I have a feeling that this one is going to stick a little bit more. However, you asked, what's the mindset that you need? And I think I hear the mindset that got you into it. And I'll try to give you an idea of the mindset that got you out that's going to keep you out, which is, I think, Dayton, a lot of times when we are in our life and we've got our money, we start to develop kind of an I deserve mentality. And it's not. It doesn't have to be ugly. It's just kind of like, I work hard. I deserve to spend. Right. I deserve to spend money on the things that I want. I deserve to have the lifestyle I want. I deserve to have the car in the house I want. After all, I've worked hard. And if we're not careful, that can really, really, really do us in. Because that's what's happened to you. You listed it. You're like, well, we had kids, and then I wanted this career, and then I wanted this house. And it's kind of like, what other thing would cause you to go into debt other than the fact that you think you simply deserve to have those things? Right? I mean, is that fair enough?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would agree with that.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then the other side of that I deserve is you're also seeing what other people have, and it's like, well, how do they deserve that? I deserve what they have because the people around me have the house, the people around me have the car. And so you're. You're making that comparison and you're trying to keep up with the things you see. Is that fair enough?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, to a degree. I mean, like, I never. We don't buy any nice cars. We don't have any car payments or anything like that. It's been. But yeah, totally. Lifestyle, like, wanting to do things with the kids, wanting to make sure they got a nice space, pretty place, you know, that kind of stuff.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so I think the mentality going out of it, and don't get me wrong, I think coming out of $103,000 of debt is going to change you in a different way than coming out of $22,000 of debt is. But I want you to adapt the mentality of what you truly deserve, which is you truly deserve to have a good night's sleep without debt over your shoulder. Right?

[Ken Coleman]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Jade Warshaw]

You deserve to feel good about the money that you earn and that it's enough for your family and not feel like it's, you know, because the opposite is what makes you go out to get debt. The opposite is what I'm contributing is not enough. What I'm bringing and earning is not enough. Therefore I must. And then you go to all these debt sources, but you deserve to feel good about the life you're providing for your family.

[Ken Coleman]

So, Dayton, I want to flip that. She's right. But let's just for a second, let's be real gut level honest with each other, the three of us. What are the emotions you're feeling, the negative emotions attached to this debt and those debt payments and that interest and all the things that you now obviously regret, which is why you called today and you said, how do I keep from doing this again. What is the most negative emotion? Describe it.

[Caller]

Well, I would say it's like massive amounts of shame because I was in a good position and I've made good money for a lot of years and I'm back to making good money now and it was a lot of shame to like look at the finances. I knew they were getting out of hand, but I literally like every time I think to open up the banking app or the do my budget, my immediate thing is like, oh, don't do that man. Like you, you're just looking, looking your failure in the face. Right. So that's been okay how it got out of hand for sure.

[Ken Coleman]

How much stress, how much pressure do you feel?

[Caller]

Oh, lots. Like especially now looking at my new 2 month old baby and like thinking like because I'm the sole income earner in our family, my thankfully my job allows for that. But what if I told you hurt?

[Ken Coleman]

What if I told you I could snap my fingers and take away the shame and take away the stress? Well, how would you react to that? I know it's fantastical question but how would you feel? How would you feel?

[Caller]

I know it would make me feel a lot better, that's for sure. If I'm not carrying that baggage around. Right.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so my two cents on this is the way that you keep from ever doing this again is to in these moments, on a daily basis, on a daily basis, remind yourself how awful this feels. And I don't ever want to feel that again like that. To me, if you talk to somebody who's lost a ton of weight, somebody who beat some type of an addiction and I've been able to interview people like this. I know people in my personal life if you trace their story of when they recovery. You know, we've heard Dave say this for years on this show and on stages. It's the I had it moment. You know, you've talked about that, you talked about it earlier in the show today. I think you have to bottle this emotion not to stay with it. And I really want you to focus on getting out of that shame because we all carry shame and it's powerful. But I do think you need to sit with it long enough to go, I don't ever want to feel this again. And it's actually really simple to never get back in this again. You can get out of it, you've done it before, you're going to do it this time. But to never get back in it because I don't ever want to feel that Again. And I have total control as to whether or not I ever feel this way again. And I think that will be really helpful. So get your chin up. Walk the baby steps. You can do this. Throw off that coat of shame. You're not a deadbeat. You're not a jerk. You're not a loser. You're not a bad man. You made a bad financial decision. Welcome to the club, pal. You're gonna be okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Foreign. Hey, guys.

[Ken Coleman]

George here. You know, I hate debt, and that includes sleep debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

I've been there.

[Ken Coleman]

Fatigue, low energy, brain fog. And that's why I switched to Casper. My Casper mattress helps me sleep easier, cooler and deeper. And now every bedroom in my house has one. On top of that, Casper ships free, comes with a 100 night trial. And if you don't love it, they'll.

[Jade Warshaw]

Come pick it up.

[Ken Coleman]

So let's ditch the sleep debt and build sleep wealth. Go to Casper.com Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 30% off all mattresses and up to 35% off everything else. That's Casper.com Ramsey promo code Ramsey exclusions app. The Ramsey show continues. I'm Ken Kulmajayde Warshaw is alongside triple 882-55-5225 is the phone number. Laura is joining us now in Los Angeles. Laura, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, I. My husband and I are in a lot of debt from small business we started. And I need you to guide me.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

How to get out of it, I guess.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, give us some numbers.

[Caller]

Okay, so we're talking, if we're combining personal and business, it's about like 150.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. How much is from the business, though? I'm just curious.

[Caller]

Well, I would say all of it because we put in from personal into the business. But just a bit like the credit cards would be like 90,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And what's the rest of the. The debt?

[Caller]

They're all. They're all credit cards.

[Jade Warshaw]

All of it's all 150s on credit cards?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my word.

[Caller]

We even opened up personal loans to pay for the credit cards. We can have more space for the credit card. It's a mess.

[Jade Warshaw]

So how many credit cards total?

[Caller]

I would say there is about seven.

[Jade Warshaw]

Seven. And then you said you have personal loans open too. Is that included in the 150 or is that. What is that?

[Caller]

Yes, that's included in the 150.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so your thought is like, hey, we use these personal loans to pay down the credit card to clear up more space so we can borrow more on the credit card.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the, what's your income situation? Are you guys still working in the business?

[Caller]

No, no, we, it took us a while, but we brightened up to close that business. Well, it's still open, but it's not running.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, gotcha. So what's your income?

[Caller]

My husband makes about, I would say 120 and I make 80.

[Jade Warshaw]

Where does that money come from?

[Caller]

We each have jobs.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so we get two hundred thousand dollar combined income.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Do you have any other debt outside the 150? I know she asked you that, but I'm just totally clarifying. Yet this is all debt?

[Caller]

Well, yeah, we have a mortgage, a car if that's what you're asking.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, we want to know total debt. Tell us about your cars, your student loans, any, anything that you owe money towards that you make a monthly payment towards. We want to know about it. So go ahead and tell me your mortgage. I'm just curious, what do you owe on it?

[Caller]

I would say we owe like 400,000. So, so monthly I paid 3,300. For mortgage o the car I paid 700amonth. I think there's like 19,000 left on it. Okay, we have a leased car, that's $400 a month. My son's school is 850amonth. My.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is that private school or is that daycare?

[Caller]

Private school.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, how old is he? Four. Okay, okay, keep going.

[Caller]

My school one is 400. So our personal loans, his is 1600amonth, mine is 850amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and how much. But that personal loan is included in the 150 you told me earlier.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, tell me when you guys get your paychecks, like after everything's taken out. What do you take home every month? What's your check look like between both of you combined?

[Caller]

Yeah, mine is about 2000 and his was about. Oh no, that's on every other week.

[Ken Coleman]

So 4,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

4,000.

[Caller]

About 9,000 for him.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that's the good news.

[Ken Coleman]

So 13 net. And just a real quick question, I don't want to get bogged down on this, but why is the 4 year old in a private school?

[Caller]

Because of. I, I don't want him to learn anything.

[Ken Coleman]

That right, but is it pre K?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so it doesn't have to be in pre K. I'm just wondering, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

There's some money there.

[Ken Coleman]

There's some money to be saved on some home care maybe versus But I, I don't. There's bigger issues going on. But y' all gotta, y' all Gotta, like cut back big time. There's the big time, there's the bumper stickers that Jade's about ready to walk you through.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I think that's, I mean, jumping off with Ken's point could be a good place to start. You know, the only way to get out of debt is there's two methods you could invoke here. You could work more. Right. To have more margin. You could also cut back on your budget to find more margin. Or you can do a combination of both. And to Ken's point, that school might be a great place to start because I don't know what you were going to say as far as like, I don't want them to learn certain things. It might be some of the same feelings that I have and my kid is in private school, but for right now it's okay. Or in there in daycare. And for right now it's okay. So it might be worth it for you to invoke that when they get a little bit older, could be that it's your kid, your problem.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah. And I may step on toes here, but since we're here, I'm going to go ahead and say it because I know a lot of Americans are thinking this, so I'm going to go ahead and say it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Get in there. You might have to put your hat on.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't remember anything from my 12th grade year. Your 4 year old, no matter what they're trying to teach the kid. I mean, I get it. I'm not in la. I get it. But I don't know, I would be looking to save $800 a month tonight.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, what matters most is what you teach them at home.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

But again, we're. I know we're really getting into your personal life.

[Ken Coleman]

I know. And I gotta be careful. I'm not judging you. I'm just saying, you know, the four year old, we could cut that. That's 800 bucks a month. That's 90, $600 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's a lot for where you're at right now. It is a lot. We just want to highlight that. It is a lot. Next thing is, I'm looking at possibly both of these cars. I want to know about how you can get out of this lease. When is this lease over?

[Caller]

Very soon. I would say like four months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And then your option, you just turn the car in and you're out.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, So I would do that. Don't try to buy back the car or nothing like that. Just get out of the lease. And in the meantime, do you have any money saved?

[Caller]

No, everything is gone.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, then what I'd be doing, knowing that this lease is about to come up, I'd be like, we gotta stack up $3,000, because when this lease goes away, we need to be able to buy a car in cash. And that's what that, that's kind of the car plan. So write that down in your notebook as when we turn in this lease in three months. In three months, we'll also be buying a three to $4,000 car. I know you have the margin in your budget to do that. Okay, so that deals with one car. Let's talk about the $19,000 car. Do you know what that car is worth? The payment was kind of high. Didn't you say it was like $700?

[Caller]

Yes, it. I think we bought it at 50,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Do you know what it's worth now?

[Caller]

I don't.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that's your second piece of car homework. I want you to go on kellybluebook.com look at private sale, because it sounds like if, if you bought it at 50, and judging by the height of your payment, I feel like you've been paying this off kind of fast. Is that. Am I wrong?

[Caller]

No, you're. Yeah, you're right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you might actually, you might not be upside down. And if you're not, I would still get out of this and get into something cheaper because the $700 payment, you need that money. And so now we've just found eleven hundred dollars in your, in your budget with these cars, and you need every dime of that to go towards paying off this, this credit card debt. The good news is, can. I mean, you guys have a good income. It's not wonderful for la, but it's wonderful for the rest of the country.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And it's doable. And again, not telling you what to do with your kid in school, but if we take the 800 on top of that, now we're right at the doorstep of two grand that we found in your monthly budget. That goes a long way to paying off $150,000 in debt. Okay, because now you're looking at if we just take 2,000amonth that you found and you put it towards debt, that's 24,000 a year. Now, it's a long haul. Right. And this is a drastic change of your lifestyle. You're not going on vacation. You know, you aren't going out to eat. You guys are going to have to really hustle. But, but again, my, my co host today, this is a woman who her and her husband paid off half a million dollars. She needs a little pep talk as we go into the break here because mindset wise, what does she got to be thinking right now?

[Jade Warshaw]

You've got to be thinking the hard part is you're making a good income and to not be living in that income feels like, oh, man, I've been working hard. But the time will come when you do get to do that. So just, just hold on. If you clean up this mess, you're going to enjoy your income like you never have before. Right now you've kind of faux enjoyed it with all these things on payments and it's not all it's cracked up to be, but if you walk through this journey, you're going to get to enjoy the fruit of 220 plus thousand dollars a year with no debt and payments. You can send your kid to the school that you want to and you don't have the stress associated with it because you'll actually be able to afford it.

[Ken Coleman]

You can do it.

[Jade Warshaw]

You can.

[Ken Coleman]

Appreciate the call. All right, quick break. Jade Warshaw, Ken Coleman, this is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Don't let big grocery bills spoil your holiday plans. Shop at Aldi first. They've got USDA choice meats like beef, pork and even your turkey, along with fresh produce, holiday desserts and more. And you'll find all of them at the lowest prices of any national grocery store. A family of four can save up to $4,000 a year by shopping at Aldi. You don't need a membership or some loyalty app either. So stop overpaying this holiday season. Go to Aldi US to find a store near you that's Aldi US Savings. Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, America. Thrilled that you are with us. It's where we help you win in your money and your work and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me this hour. The phone number is 3882-55225. And Jade, across the studio through the glass on the debt free stage in the lobby are some folks and that means we've got a debt free screen coming your way. Gary and Melissa, welcome. Thanks. Thanks. All right. Where are you guys from? From Belle Plaine, Minnesota, Belle Point, Minnesota. Is that near Minneapolis? Just south Minneapolis. Okay, good boy. Are you just excited to see the sun this time of year. Yep. There it is. All right, so all this way to do a debt free scream. Very exciting. So let's hear the numbers. How much debt did you pay off and how long? We paid off $165,000 over 47 months.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. And what was your range of income? We started about a 16060 and ended at about 200. Oh, what. What led to the bump in pay? We just leaned into our careers.

[Jade Warshaw]

We both earned promotions and.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, stuck to it. What do you mean by promotions?

[Jade Warshaw]

They were. He moved from a factory position to a safety manager, and I just kind of took different roles at my current company.

[Ken Coleman]

And what are you doing?

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm a client relationship manager.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, fantastic. That is awesome. All right, what was all this debt? What did the 165 get comprised of? By the time we finally got down.

[Jade Warshaw]

To just writing everything out, we had.

[Ken Coleman]

A HELOC that we had been leaning on.

[Jade Warshaw]

We had a car, and then we.

[Ken Coleman]

Had a credit card that we were.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just kind of paying off every month. So that was probably the smallest and easiest one to pay off.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so pretty good size HELOC?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it was about 40,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. We used it to remodel our basement and then kind of kept it and kept it going. Okay, all right, so tell us, 47 months ago, what happens? What was the catalytic moment to lead you on this journey?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So he was going back to school.

[Jade Warshaw]

It was his last semester, and we had found.

[Ken Coleman]

We were kind of. We were trying to cash flow it.

[Jade Warshaw]

But we'd get a little short. So we'd pull a little bit out of the heloc. We were getting kind of sloppy. And as last semester came up and the.

[Ken Coleman]

The tuition payment was going to be.

[Jade Warshaw]

Due, and we finally said, this is it.

[Ken Coleman]

We're doing it in cash.

[Jade Warshaw]

And we had about two and a half months before that was due, and we did it. And that was kind of our. Our biggest victory as we got started. That's awesome. So you're funding education out of the heat lock a little bit? Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Cash flowing it. But then we were kind of filling the gaps.

[Jade Warshaw]

We were just being sloppy. There was no reason for it. Yeah. So what was kind of like you hit the moment of like, listen, we're not going to do this anymore. We're going to start paying cash. What? How did you find Ramsey? Like, how did you find. Like this. And this is the way we're going to do it going forward? Yeah, we knew about it before that. We just weren't following it. We Kind of thought we were doing good on our, on our path and you know, we were kind of budgeting, but then it was just like, just.

[Ken Coleman]

Tired of the revolving debts.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like this year it was a HELOC. A couple years before it was a 401k loan.

[Ken Coleman]

It just kind of things.

[Jade Warshaw]

We were just, it was a shell game. We were just kind of moving the.

[Ken Coleman]

Debt around and just got tiring.

[Jade Warshaw]

It does get tiring. So you're working the baby steps. Is this, you're getting on a budget? Is this you guys picking up extra work or is this like, listen, we're just tightening up on the budget. We're just getting very clean on what we're doing. Tell us about that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it was pretty much just us tightening it up as much as we could, cutting out any unnecessary expenses. We didn't have any side hustles, but we tried to do more experience based activities with the kids. You know, we do a lot of camping, going up to the cabin, stuff like that. So just try to cut out those unnecessary expenses. Do you do the ice fishing in Minnesota? Do you guys do that? We do. And I guess spear fishing is probably. Yeah, I learned about that. I don't want to go down the rabbit hole for the rest of the people who don't care. But you talk camping, all that, and I heard about how you do the ice fishing. Like it's like a whole thing. It's like a whole experience. Everybody goes out and all that jazz. It's fun. Yeah, no, I don't think it is. I'll be honest. I heard it described and I didn't think it was fun at all. But much, much love to you on that. All right, so let's talk about this. What was, was there, was there a beginning point that you guys said, okay, we'd heard a little bit about this Ramsey stuff, now we're going to do it. Was it hard or was it. We were on the same page. What was the beginning of that journey like when you finally said, all right, we're committing how, I mean, was it hard for you or did you just roll right through? Was a little bit of getting on the same page.

[Jade Warshaw]

We started with that first goal of getting that last tuition payment, and then from there it was adopting the budget.

[Ken Coleman]

Which I wrote out the budget.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm the nerd.

[Ken Coleman]

Took him a little bit to get into the budget. But once we started rolling, then we.

[Jade Warshaw]

Were both fully bought in.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I was reluctant at first. It was. The idea of getting on that budget was a little rough. But once you saw it start to really work. That's when I brought bought in all the way.

[Jade Warshaw]

So relate to that a little bit because I know a lot of people dislike budgeting.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

They hear the word budget, they think it's a punishment. They think it's something that's holding them back. What changed that for you? Because I love talking to people who don't like budgeting and changing their minds.

[Ken Coleman]

So the one thing that was neat is Melissa printed out this kind of like Tetris. All the little pieces equaled a certain amount of money. And we had that sitting on our refrigerator. And then every time we were paying off any amounts, Melissa was really good at filling in those spaces. I like to fill it in.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you like to feel the milestone. Like you want to feel the milestone you're celebrating. It's kind of a fun process.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And it was a way to see that work. And we did the same thing with our house where we printed off a picture of like balloons holding up our house and each one was a certain dollar amount.

[Jade Warshaw]

And now wait a minute. Did you pay the house off? We did. What?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, you didn't tell us that. Wait a second, I was digging. I was like 65. I was trying to figure out how big was that credit card.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, you paid your house off.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Ken Coleman]

That makes a little more sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. We just got into it. Guys, I need you to shout that from the rooftops.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

You guys, congratulations.

[Ken Coleman]

Ho hum. Right now who are your biggest cheerleaders on the way? I would say we've got some family that was walking the journey along with us. And then my parents, we just like to talk money.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, there's more that's caught than taught. And it was those conversations that just kind of kept us focused and motivated. Wow, that's awesome. So what's next? You got a paid for home, no debt. Life is good. What do you do? What do you do to celebrate? And don't say ice fishing.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, we came here. Okay. And then we've got some fun projects for the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now that it's all done, we've kind of. It's time to have some fun there. Yeah. And you don't have to take out a HELOC to do it. That's the best part.

[Ken Coleman]

Speed of cash. That's so fun. All right, I see the kiddos over there. Let's bring them up and then we're going to talk about them for a second. We've got tell us who they are. And the ages. Yeah, we've got Charlotte is 13, Kelvin.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is 11, and Caleb is 7.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And. And so how quickly did you bring them into this journey? And then how involved were they in the conversations around this? Because you just said, Melissa, that you and your family talk about money. I'm guessing these kiddos have a pretty good idea about what we're about to do. Yeah, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, yeah, they do.

[Ken Coleman]

They listen to the podcast with us.

[Jade Warshaw]

A lot of the time. We have the game at home.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

We've played that a few times.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, our. Our debt trackers were up on the fridge, so they saw it the same as we did.

[Jade Warshaw]

So it was really a family journey. They knew kind of what the goal was and why we did things the way we did.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And no griping, no complaining. They were pretty good soldiers.

[Jade Warshaw]

Nah, they're pretty good.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Pretty easy. All right, that's awesome.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, this is really exciting. Well, listen, before we do the screen, I want to let you know we're also going to give you some gifts here. One is Dave's total money makeover. That's for you to give to someone else because you guys have.

[Caller]

Have.

[Ken Coleman]

You guys have actually done this. And then Baby Steps Millionaires, Dave's latest book. And that's where you guys are headed probably pretty quickly with the income you guys have. So those are our gift to you. All right, let's do this. Is the team ready? The kiddos, have they been practicing? They're old enough to. I've got to hear you guys. All right. I want to hear all those different tones coming out. Let's do this thing. We've got Gary, Melissa, Charlotte, Kelvin, and Caleb, all from the Minneapolis area. They paid off $165,000 in 47 months, starting out making 160 and ending at 200,000. Let's go, team. Let's hear your debt free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free. I heard them all. I heard them all. Did you?

[Jade Warshaw]

I heard every voice.

[Ken Coleman]

You're the professional musician.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you pick.

[Ken Coleman]

I picked up all three voices. I don't know what you call them all. I heard them.

[Jade Warshaw]

All of them. There was no harmony, but I heard all three.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you're tough. You're a tough one to. It's like a judge from American Idol.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

I would never want to do that in front of you, but this is a great example of how a family's tree, as Dave has said for decades, changes. So very, very cool. Awesome stuff. All right, don't go anywhere. We've got to take a Quick break. Jade Warshaw, Ken Coleman with you. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Everywhere you turn this time of year, someone's telling you to swipe a card now and pay later. But that mindset always leads straight to debt and post holiday stress. Fairwinds Credit Union takes a different approach. They're here to help you win with money. Fairwinds doesn't push credit cards. They help you build savings and stay debt free, just like we teach with the baby steps. And to do that, Fairwinds created the Smart Bundle with Ramsey fans in mind. It's more than a bank account. It's a tool to help you live with intention. The Smart Bundle includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the exclusive Ramsey Beweird debit card, which says debt is normal, be weird right on the front. So every time you swipe at this Christmas season, it's a reminder that you're choosing a different path to spend no more than you actually have. To avoid that January budget hangover and to be free from debt traps, go to fairwinds.org Ramsey to open your Smart Bundle and get your Ramsey Beweird debit card today. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. Triple 882-55-5225. Triple 882-55-2225. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is alongside. All right, so what do we got here? We got a Ramsey network app question is that right? Now, is this audio, James, or am I reading this question? Just reading this one. Okay. I'm sorry, folks. I didn't do my production notes and I thought, I'm not going to try to fake my way through it. I'm just going to ask my erstwhile captain in there. And sometimes we listen to these, sometimes I read them and I, I didn't pay attention to my notes. Kids, this is why you study before you take the test. All right, all right. Today's Ramsey network app question. By the way, the network app, I just want to say this very briefly. This is fantastic stuff. We'll remind you later in the show, but we have just exclusive content over there that only people who have the app and you can get it in the app store, Google Play can listen. It's just a part of the show that no one else can get. We'll remind you about that later. But fantastic app and a lot of great content over there. So this question is from Jane. She asked after many stops and starts in college and throughout my career, realized I'm passionate about filmmaking. In particular, helping to fight and advocate for people who don't have a voice. I've since learned that it's hard to make money in this profession. Can you give me some advice and some things that I can do where I can actually earn a living? Oh my, my. That's an open ended question there. Well, here's the quick advice is you need to find work different types of gigs in many different lanes that all have one thing in common, that allow you to use what you do best. That's your skill to do work that you really, really enjoy, that produces a result that matters. So you say you're passionate about filmmaking.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

We love the artistic filmmaking. And then you add in the specifics of you the results that you want to produce from filmmaking ideally would be to fight bad things, to advocate for people who don't have a voice. So there is an activist, an advocating type of film or art that you want to put out. So for instance, this could be documentary filmmaking. Obviously we see a lot of this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And so someone has told you or you have listened or you have started the process of trying to get into filmmaking. And what you've discovered. And what she's discovered, Jade, is this thing called a ladder.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Gotta make. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And on the lower rungs of ladder, Jade, we don't make a whole lot of money.

[Jade Warshaw]

Peanuts sometimes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And so if I might, could I go back into the wayback machine?

[Jade Warshaw]

Way back. Take us way back. Back in time.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm 31, 32. And realize that I really want to go into broadcasting. But I do not have a degree in broadcasting. I had no experience in broadcasting. I just had what I thought was the gift of gab, but I mean, hadn't tested it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I have three little kids. You know my kids, I do, they were littles. And that means I got to provide and fabulous wife and a puppy and the whole nine yards in the house. And. And so the reality was is I began to do the work like Jane had to discover, okay, what does it look like to work in the film industry? What does it look like to work in broadcasting? And what I found out pretty quickly was on those rower lungs of the of lower rungs rather of the ladder, it wasn't going to feed the family.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So what I did is what my advice for Jane is, or anybody that's listening is I had to have a day job that took care of business and I was then going to have to part time get into broadcasting, get a little experience here, get a little experience there and over time step into it slowly. In other words, embrace the ladder. So you gotta have something else to fall back on while you're trying to get into filmmaking. So I wish that the advice was clearer. I wish it was better. It's not. If that's what you want to get into any type of artistic form of telling stories or whatever, if you could find other causes, maybe you go work for a non profit, you know, and you actually then begin to do video work for them instead of going into the film industry and then telling stories. That's about all I can ideate on there. You want to add anything to that without having her on the phone?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I agree. I think you're right. There's a part of this you have to pay your dues. And I do think when it comes to the arts, when you're first starting out, there is a part of that dream that you have that you do have to generalize in the beginning because you got to take opportunity. And it's kind of like music artists, when they first get signed, they have to, you know, the machine decides what they're gonna do. It's not until they're in it for a while that they finally get to go, now I do the songs I want to write. Now I do I now I do it my way. And so it might be a while for her before she's doing what she labeled here as, you know, helping people fight and advocate for people. Just understand it could be a while before you do it exactly the way that you want to do it. And that's okay.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what song I'm thinking about?

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't.

[Ken Coleman]

I Did It My Way. How about that? I got.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, my grandfather used to sing that. I love that.

[Caller]

Yeah, there you go.

[Ken Coleman]

James is so happy.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good. Good job, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I thought it was on actually. That's really good. It was on key. A little bit of a crooner kind of feel there. We're going to move on quickly. Paul in Hartford, Connecticut. Paul, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hello, guys, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. What's going on?

[Caller]

So basically I'm kind of in a predicament right now. Last week we're at a family reunion, then my dad come up to me and he just basically asked me to take out a loan for him of $20,000.

[Ken Coleman]

For what?

[Jade Warshaw]

Just casually?

[Caller]

Yeah, just casually.

[Ken Coleman]

For What?

[Caller]

He says he has some business going on. He didn't give me any details. I know I don't need to take the loan out.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

I just want to know how to basically, you know, turn him down without having any issues.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Clearly and quickly. Hey, dad, Pops. Listen. Thought about it for about two seconds. No, not gonna do it. Love you, dad. You're awesome. Not happening. What would you add to that?

[Jade Warshaw]

I thought he was gonna say, I just want to ask you guys what was wrong with him. But you said.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I think he's kind of wondering that too.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Listen, I'm glad that you know that you're not going to take out this loan. I think the way to do that is just simply say, I. I, Dad, I don't borrow money and so I can't help you borrow money.

[Ken Coleman]

That was much nicer than the way I said it.

[Caller]

Yeah, right.

[Ken Coleman]

No, Paul, seriously, Jade's right. I think you're respectful. Yeah, but you're like, dad, I don't believe in debt and I can't do this. I'm so sorry. If you want to be really polite and really respectful, I just roll differently in that situation. Like, if a family member, especially my dad, comes to me, I'll be like, dad, you know what my honest answer would be? Yeah, this is not what I'm recommending. But I literally would have been like, if he rolled up on me at a party like that. I looked at him and went, do you have a fever? Should you lie down? Can I get you a cold rag and a glass of water? Have you lost your ever loving mind? That's what I would have said to my dad.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is this normal? Has he asked, like, is this a habit that he'll kind of hit you up for some money here and there?

[Caller]

Not me, but some other family members? Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Because it felt so casual, I wondered if it was normal. Yeah. Is it that he wants you. I'm just curious. Is it that he wants you to just fully take it out in your name? Or does he want you to co sign or what?

[Caller]

Is it fully taken out my name?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's different. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you just gotta say no. And at this point, resist making it about the details. I know I just asked details, but resist making it about like, dad, you didn't even show me a plan or you didn't even tell me what you wanna do. It's not even about that. It's just.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Jade Warshaw]

Dad, I can't take out debt for you. I'm sorry if Luck with the decision.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't think dad has a plan. I think if he'd have asked for details, his dad would have told him a fish story. I just don't think there's anything there. Yeah. Paul, listen, we're having a little bit of fun with what is a really tense situation. I just think you got to take the high road, really high road. But do not have a conversation about it to the extent that when you tell him, you make it clear to him there is no conversation. This isn't like a. He gets a shot at a little bit of a negotiation on this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. How will he react?

[Caller]

Honestly, I was just shocked. I didn't react at all. I was just shocked because it's, you know, it's a huge amount of money.

[Ken Coleman]

How's he going to react when you tell him? No.

[Caller]

I'm not sure, but he's not going to be happy.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, you're sure that chuckle was a chuckle of experience?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Uncomfortable.

[Ken Coleman]

Come on, man. Yeah, yeah. This is tough.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sorry, man. I hate that that happened. That's. That's awkward. Yeah, it's an awkward situation to get put in.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me take this above. Paul, real quick. Give our audience 20 seconds on why they should never loan family any money as a general principle.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, well, what Dave Ramsey would say is it makes Thanksgiving dinner taste different. I've done it, by the way. I've borrowed money from my mother in law who is a wonderful, generous woman. And it's not on her, it's on you. Feel it no matter what. It doesn't matter how great or nice they are. You feel the weight. Don't do it.

[Ken Coleman]

There you go. Great hour. Jade Warshaw. Thank you, America for listening. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. Steve is now joining us in Columbia, South Carolina. Steve, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Yeah. Hi, Ken. Hi, Jay. It's great to be speaking with you guys today.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, good to talk to you.

[Caller]

So I've got a. I'm on the cusp of finalizing a divorce and we came to a mediated settlement. And as part of it, Basically there's a 50, 50 split of the 401k, but then I also have to come up with 100,000 in cash in 90 days to buy her out of the house. And then additionally there's 150k lump sum alimony payment over five years. So kind of two questions is basically, how would you guys recommend coming with the 100k? Because I got some advice from the lawyers and I didn't really appreciate. And clearly they weren't part of the Ramsey program. And then treat the alimony payment going forward. I treat it as a debt in the baby steps or as like a line item in the budget going forward.

[Ken Coleman]

Why don't we address that one first? Jay, tell him about where that goes in the budget.

[Jade Warshaw]

The 150 over five years. Have you calculated it out and seen what that looks like monthly?

[Caller]

Yes. About 2500amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can you. Can you afford that?

[Caller]

And it. And it fits? Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good. So, yeah, that's a line item on the budget. I would do it that way, especially if you can afford it. What's your income?

[Caller]

About 180 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good.

[Caller]

It ends up being about like 8,8000amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So the 100k in 90 days to buy out the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Why'd you agree to that?

[Caller]

So it's definitely, definitely the house. It's terms of everything else available in the area. There's. There's no way I'd be getting anything close to this. And.

[Jade Warshaw]

But I'm talking about the term, the time. Like, do you have a hundred. Do you have a hundred thousand dollars?

[Caller]

Yeah. So that's exactly it. I think. I think it was a matter of kind of signing it and not really paying attention to that. 90 days. I've got about 50, 55k in cash right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, well, that's a good start. How much is your car worth?

[Caller]

So not much. So it's a 2007 Subaru Forester.

[Ken Coleman]

So what happens if. Let's come at this thing from another angle. Just. I'm trying to figure this out for you. What happens if in 90 days, you don't have 100k? What is the kick in the contract, the agreement?

[Caller]

So it's just part of the court order. So I think it'd be going back in front of the judge.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think that's your best bet. This was a. This was a bad negotiation on your part or on your lawyer's part? Because you don't. You can't get the money in 90 days. And so when this goes back in front of the court, you need to have a better plan of what that is.

[Ken Coleman]

Why not sell them?

[Caller]

I was gonna say the original. Well, the. The original thought was basically kind of part of the quadro from the rest of the 401k. So my half of the 401k, like, use part of it to be able to pay her off.

[Jade Warshaw]

That was your plan?

[Caller]

That was the, that was the original thought. And then again the lawyers even suggested doing a home equity loan, which I flat out just, no, that was a.

[Jade Warshaw]

Bad idea because you have to put yourself, you have to reverse engineer like you have to reverse the situation and say, if I were in any other setting, would I borrow from my 401k to buy a house? No, you wouldn't. Would I take out a personal loan, you know, to, to up the ante on my house? No, you wouldn't. And that's the way I'm looking at it. I think that you either need to give yourself more time. If this is like something that you're like, I love this house, I don't want to give it up. I'm never going to have a house like this again. You either need to give yourself more time. I mean, I've talked to people where there's years to come up with the money. Not that I want you linked to her for that long, but do you have kids?

[Caller]

Adult kids. So she's in college now, but yep.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so where's your ex going? She's just gonna go rent somewhere.

[Caller]

Starting a new career in another state.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, here's here. I'm gonna come back to this because I, I, now again, I've never walked through this before. So Jade and I are kind of on the same page.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I'm thinking about, you could do maybe a cash out refi. I don't know if there's. Because you have to take her name off it anyway.

[Ken Coleman]

I, I would sell the house. And do you have any equity in it at all?

[Caller]

Yeah, and that's basically what I'm buying. Buying out of.

[Ken Coleman]

How much equity do you have in the home?

[Caller]

About 200k in equity.

[Jade Warshaw]

So why wouldn't you?

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, I, I don't understand. Given that equity stake that you have, this is just a house and it's got a bunch of pain attached to it. You are single, you got all this money that you, that you're going to have to pay out over five years. I, I personally and again, I don't know what you think about this.

[Jade Warshaw]

I view it a little differently.

[Ken Coleman]

I know. Well, because I'm giving you another train of thought. I'm not going to advocate for my point of view. I'm going to say if it were me, I'd sell the house if, if.

[Caller]

Exactly what's been going on in my brain.

[Jade Warshaw]

So to sell it?

[Caller]

No, no, no, no. Just the back and forth. So there's, like you said, there's, I.

[Ken Coleman]

Like A clean start in this situation.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's, there's that, but then there's also. I mean, you did make a good point with the market. And when you bought this house, you might not be able to get something like that again. And I do feel that if emotionally there's not the attachment that Ken and I think there might be and you want to keep the house. Yeah. Standard is you would refi. Get her name off of it and then you would pull the cash out when you refi and then she would get her portion. The only reason I kind of disagreed with Ken's sentiment initially is because the hundred thousand is her money. It's not you giving a hundred thousand of your money at this point. Now, that is her money because you're separate. So there's a different way to look at that. It's like, hey, I'm just, I'm just giving her her money. I'm not giving away my money, if that makes sense.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

So that's. If you want to do the 90 day deal, that's how you would get it. But Ken has a good point. Do you really want to be in this house or is it worth it to you to maybe get less house and have a fresh start? That's the question. Only you can answer that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Or rent for a bit. I mean, your life's not over. So.

[Caller]

Yeah, I definitely know that. Starting. Starting over.

[Ken Coleman]

But yep, yeah, it's not over, it's starting over. So there's a whole lot of new things coming your way. So again, I don't want to advocate for it. That may be too aggressive.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long were you married?

[Caller]

You know, 20 years.

[Jade Warshaw]

20 years. Oh, listen, Ken may have a point. The kids. Do you have kids?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Remember, they've got the.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, that's right. That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

Is it just one college?

[Caller]

Yeah, just one.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ooh, yeah. You got your work cut out for you. In terms of sentimental thoughts versus fresh start thoughts.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, you make a good end.

[Caller]

I've been working through those you make.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's. I'm not advocating, but I am going to say, because I like when you push back. So keep pushing on this. But in your shoes, if you sell this house, then you're able to pay her her money and have that done set aside, put it away, get it over with. That's what I would do. I would want a clean break if I could do it. And I'm just looking at the numbers. You're gonna have to pay her 100,000 in 90 days and then you got 150, which is alimony over five years. That's a lot of money coming out of your pocket.

[Caller]

It.

[Jade Warshaw]

It could be nice to have a smaller.

[Ken Coleman]

And I'm just saying I might rent for a year, reset my life. I don't think renting for 12 months is a bad idea for a guy in your shoes. Get rid of the house, move on into a new chapter of life.

[Jade Warshaw]

And another. Okay, I'm gonna throw something else in there. And this is soon, so don't. Don't be mad at me, but you'll move on at some point and meet another lovely lady. And do you want to bring her into that house or do you want to bring her into, you know, fresh start, Steve?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we'll see about that one.

[Jade Warshaw]

But sure, I. I know I jumped ahead, but do you see what I'm saying? Like, there's begin with the end in mind, is what I'm saying.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I. I don't know. I don't know why I feel that way, but that's what I would do in that situation. And just start.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're not wrong, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

Start fresh. Get her the hundred thousand. That's her money, to your point. And now work on the rest of it. Oh, divorce sucks. Hate that for you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, me too. Hey, friends, Our Black Friday sale is live. So if you're already feeling the pressure.

[Ken Coleman]

Of holiday shopping, just take a deep breath.

[Jade Warshaw]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[Jade Warshaw]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[Jade Warshaw]

Visit ramseysolutions.com store. Foreign. You're listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade. Next to me is Ken Coleman. Taking your calls this hour about your life, your money, your business, your relationship, your career, whatever's on your mind. We'll be here to help. We'll go to Los Angeles, California, where we've got A.J. on the line. What's going on, A.J.

[Caller]

Hi, Jaden, Ken. How are you both doing?

[Jade Warshaw]

Great, if I do say so myself.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, what's going on?

[Caller]

Awesome. Awesome. Well, first of all, thank you guys for taking my call. I'm calling because I'm starting a real estate media business here in California. I'm very excited for it, and I have support from friends and family. Just the one thing that keeps bothering me, I guess I could say, is just a fear of AI I Have this fear that AI could essentially replace my work and could make it less valuable. And I really just wanted your guys opinion on it.

[Ken Coleman]

Be more descriptive. Give me a 30 second description of what your company service is going to be. What do you do for folks?

[Caller]

Drew Real Estate.

[Jade Warshaw]

There we go.

[Caller]

It is a new, it is a new company but we're going to specialize in video work and in more lifestyle work for agents who sell higher end properties just to help like elevate their brand and make it stand out from the rest of the market.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're a production company and you're going to be shooting video of their homes, the inside of the homes, outside, making the homes look great, but also making them look like those big shots on those, on those reality shows. Selling, sunset, selling. Thank you. Yes, that's what you're going to do. But you're a video production company.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so AI, how is AI going to affect the video production industry? Have you done any homework on this? Have you begun to see trends?

[Caller]

So I've just seen things where editing work is being replaced, where a lot of the background work is being replaced, like stuff behind the scenes. So I'm just seeing that trickle in, into that part of it. Not really seeing it on the front end, but it kind of worries me.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, but let's keep playing this out. So I'm leading you down a path here. So if AI tools allow you to do the editing or your team to do the editing quicker and better, does that replace you or does it enhance your business?

[Caller]

I would say it enhances the business.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, it does. Absolutely it does. And so what you have to look at is, okay, so I had cigars with a very successful movie producer about two weeks ago, Jade. And he told me point blank and this guy like he's producing the latest rock movie that's coming out next year. So this guy's big time and he said to me and was showing me on his phone a full movie trailer that was AI start to finish, not one real person in it.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's why.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, now I bring this up to say in this case, if I was an actor in the actors unions, and that's already happening, that's why the latest strike happened in large part. What is AI going to, is a going to replace real actors? Because if you can do a blockbuster action film and not pay an actor.

[Jade Warshaw]

20 million, that makes me so mad I'm getting angry sitting here. Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

So AI would threaten actors?

[Jade Warshaw]

No question, 100%.

[Ken Coleman]

And he told me as much.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm getting mad. You cannot replace creative people doing creative things. I'm just putting that out in the world, not to you.

[Ken Coleman]

And he doesn't want to, by the way. He's not pro that. He's just going to. This is where somebody's gonna do it. It's gonna be crazy. So everybody's gonna have to adjust is what.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, now, no one will ever connect to it. I'm just saying.

[Ken Coleman]

Aj, you. Someone's gonna have to always do the filming. Someone's always gonna have to consult the realtors on their brand. AI cannot do what a human doesn't program it to do. Make sense?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So I would run it through that instead of just letting your fears run wild. Go, wait a second. Will the human touch be more needed than ever in my industry? And I think the answer is yes, it is yes. AI cannot do what you're going to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

And the truth is, let's put it through. You know, obviously, AI is new territory for a lot of folks, but in essence, in many ways, it's not right. There's always been a tool available to do something easier. And as professionals, we get to decide are we going to be the person who picks up the tool or not. Right. And so there's always a vacuum cleaner. Some people don't want a vacuum, so they call a housekeeper. There's always.

[Ken Coleman]

Or, you know that one that just roves around.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's right.

[Ken Coleman]

That's technology.

[Jade Warshaw]

Roomba. Yeah. And so, I mean, right now there, there, there are more apps than ever before to make, you know, digital, digital media and all that kind of stuff. But some people are like, I don't want to learn how to use those apps. So they still go to, to companies that'll do that for them. So the, the point is, as long as there's tools, there's always going to be people who go, I don't want to learn how to do that. And you're still going to have the ability to do it for us.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's what last point on this AI folks. For our large audience, if you learn how to work with AI and use AI and also find yourself in industries where the human touch will always be premium, then you're going to be fine.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I like that it's going to.

[Ken Coleman]

Make us want human more.

[Jade Warshaw]

It is.

[Ken Coleman]

It really will.

[Jade Warshaw]

I, you know, I'm a creative at heart. I hate the idea. Idea. I hate that I'm hearing music that is by. I know. Not, not real people. I hate this idea of not real people being actors. I'M like, people need people. If there's nothing we didn't learn from 2020, it's that people need human touch and human contact and humans create art and art is a reflection of culture and there's. I can't understand what the world would be like if that continuum was disrupted. Anyway, this another conversation for another time. But anyway, if it gets to that.

[Ken Coleman]

You'Ll find me somewhere in my own restaurant, James, in the Caribbean, serving people.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, beat me up.

[Ken Coleman]

Spinning yarns, telling jokes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Spinning yarns. All right, let's see if Carl has a yarn to spend in, in, in Sacramento. Carl, spin us, spin us a. Spin us a yarn.

[Caller]

Okay. All right. Can you hear me?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, we can.

[Ken Coleman]

What's up?

[Caller]

Awesome. So I'm 45 years old, married, nothing safer retirement. Regrettably, I do not own a home. Currently renting a home. I have about $250,000 in high interest savings account and I started a small business about five years ago, which I currently still own, but obviously getting older without, you know, any backup on the investment or even a home.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Is worrisome. So I've, you know, obviously, and I'm married and I don't want to leave my wife without a home or, you know, without some resources in case something were to happen to me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure. Does she have resources in her name?

[Caller]

No. No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

No, she's, she's. Same situation. She has a good job, but that doesn't last forever. So. Anyway, so I've decided it'd be a good idea to sell my business where it's at so I can start playing catch up on some of those important items. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you sold it, what would it bring?

[Caller]

So after taxes, so after I pay capital gains to Uncle Sam, I'll probably have net about 500,000 lessons.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

So combined with my 250, I'll be at about 750 liquid cash that I can deploy in one direction or the other. My first thought.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then what would you do for work?

[Caller]

I'd probably go start another business. Probably the same thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you wouldn't need capital for that. You could just go right to it.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm still going to have a lot of the. The purchase isn't. He's not going to be purchasing all the assets, so I'll still have some of the assets. So I can literally start the same.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And what do you think you'd earn? I'm sorry, I'm just trying to get the numbers before we hit the clock.

[Caller]

No problem. Obviously, day one, I'd Be at zero. But I think I could probably get to about. I could probably get to about 4,000 net within six months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

I could probably within a year. I could be, you know, comfortably, you know, 6, 6 to 7,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[Caller]

Net probably within a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good.

[Caller]

Worst case, worst case scenario if things didn't go well, because I am pretty established in my industry, I can go work for another company if I thought things weren't really gaining traction. And I could probably get a job pretty easily making, you know, 80 to 100,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Excellent. So the question is, do you take. What do you do with the 750?

[Caller]

Exactly. Yep. So I'm in. I'm in. As you guys mentioned, I'm in Sacramento. So nothing's cheap in California.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And so just a small, modest home in my area. Area, you're looking about 550,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Well, nothing special, but it's, you know, it's a roof over the head and, you know, it's, you know, the truth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is you're going in the right direction. I'd want to stabilize. That's the biggest line item on all of our budgets. It's rent or mortgage. So I'd want to stabilize that as quickly as possible. You've got the money. If you can pay for something in cash and not have a payment, I love that for you, and start investing the rest. When you get this money together, you need to be investing 15% of your gross every single month. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Ken Coleman]

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start, answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money. Starting Today, go with ramseysolutions.com start. Foreign.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade, he's Ken. Give us a call. The show is live. So if you want to talk to us, call in 888-825-5225. We'll take your call about your life, your money, and Ken will hit you up with that career advice. Although you do jump in in on the money and you do a good job. Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah. You know, there's a microphone in front of me. That means I'm going to say something.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's going to be good. All right. We hope Lee is here. He's from Washington D.C. our nation's capital. What's going on?

[Caller]

Lee, hi. Thanks so much for taking my call. I was actually calling because I recently. Yesterday I was laid off from my job and I was contemplating if I should pay off my credit card debt, which I was initially going to pay off before I got laid off. But I'm wondering if I should change my priorities.

[Ken Coleman]

What happened?

[Caller]

The company. So I worked at a startup up, and they just couldn't afford to. To continue to pay me. I had, honestly, I just started that job in July, July 1st. So it only. This is the first month I got the job through internship because I was interning with them for two months and then they hired me on and now they've. They've laid me off because they couldn't afford to pay.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, first of all, I'm sorry about that. That. That stinks. And, and it's happened to all of us. What were you doing for them?

[Caller]

Software sales. I was a sales development representative.

[Ken Coleman]

What's your confidence level? I'm sure your brain has been running 100 miles an hour. What's your confidence level of getting another sales job or something else in that field or just anything? What's your confidence level in the next 30, 60, 90 days?

[Caller]

I'd say in the next. I think that I could confidently say that I could be placed in the same role with a different company. At least in the next 60 days.

[Ken Coleman]

Can you survive from a cash standpoint? What's your cash situation? Your bills and everything that you've got responsibilities for?

[Caller]

I do, yeah. I can survive right now. Yeah. I have about four months of expenses saved.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have any debt besides the credit card?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Yes, I do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, Jade, walking through that whole.

[Jade Warshaw]

Situation, in this situation, I hate that you got laid off and you're kind of in a transition. And so we would tell you to pause the baby steps. So for all intents and purposes, you're on baby step two, which is you have debt and you need to clear out your consumer debt. And so because this kind of storm has happened, we'd say pause that. Stack up as much cash as you have. It sounds like you have four months of expenses, but you also have debt. And so if I were you, I'd continue to make the minimum payments on all your debt because you want to stay current, you want to stay on top of things, but I wouldn't pay anything over it until you land that next position.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And can I please, please, please, please ask you to get to work very quickly? It doesn't even mean, you know, if you've got some things that are working in the industry, that's fine, play out the interview process. But I would be doing some type of part time job or maybe something full time until I had something, something that's just a gig kind of a thing, the gig economy, you know, and keep, keep income coming in. Here's why. Let's say that this thing plays out like you think it's going to, and within 60 days you're back and up and working. Now all of a sudden, we're right back in the baby steps like Jay just told you. And now that four months worth of expenses is all going towards the debt, but I want you to keep income coming in, in this time. That's where you actually turn a really sucky situation into a better situation by going, all right, I got laid off. That sucks. Taking a pay cut, but I'm at least bringing money in. And Jade, if he could, let's say, make enough money in a gig to take care of his four walls, and I'll let you explain that then. I like his position once he gets back up on the horse.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's excellent. Matter of fact, I might keep a little bit of the gig while I get back on the horse so that you can pay off this debt as quickly as possible. Because that's the goal. I want you to. Once you land the job, the money that you have in savings, I want you to use that to pay off the debt. That's the baby steps. Baby step number one is you keep, keep. You keep a thousand dollars or you get a thousand dollars, you stash it away. That's your starter emergency fund. Baby step two is you pay off all of your debt except your mortgage, using whatever extra money you have laying around. And to Ken's point, side hustling and doing all those other things. So you said you have four months of expenses at this point. If I were you, that money goes to the debt. And then after the debt is cleared up, you save back up that four months of expenses or up to six months if you wanted to, and then you move on from there and you start investing like baby steps, step four. So that's how I would run this if I were in your shoes. Very good call. Let's go to Maggie. She's in Tampa, Florida. What's going on? Maggie, hi.

[Caller]

Thank you for calling, for taking my call.

[Jade Warshaw]

You got it.

[Caller]

I'm getting, yeah, I'm getting a little, like, anxious. We were. My husband's 76 and I'm 69. And we just bought a house. We wanted to downsize from the one that we had that was bigger. And I'm getting a little anxious because the house is taking a little long to sell. It's been on the market for six months.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you sold one, you moved into another house before you sold the other one?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, and so are you about to be paying two mortgage payments?

[Caller]

No, no, no. The other one is paid off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good.

[Caller]

The one that we're selling is paid off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

So we. We thought it would sell really fast, but with the market the way it's going, it's been a little longer on the market.

[Ken Coleman]

Mm.

[Caller]

How long? Six months.

[Ken Coleman]

What is your real estate agent telling you about your current listing price?

[Caller]

Oh, we. We just lowered it some.

[Ken Coleman]

How. When. When was.

[Caller]

It was at 575, and we just lowered it to 569.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so I just saw this headline today. Today we're seeing the Florida housing market begin to contract a little bit because it was exploding, and now we're seeing it contract. In fact, many people feel like it was overpriced. Yes, it was overheated. And so you're in Tampa, which is the Tampa area, which is certainly one of the better markets in Florida. So I think if you've got a really good real estate agent, and if you don't, I would highly recommend that you go to ramseysolutions.com agent.

[Jade Warshaw]

Agent.

[Ken Coleman]

And talk to some of the. The trusted pros there on that site that we know. Because in this current market, I think patience is the game. And.

[Jade Warshaw]

And.

[Ken Coleman]

And listen, six months for a house listed in Tampa. I don't think that's crazy. If your pricing is right. If your pricing is right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Tell me, tell me. Is there anything on fire, though? Because, of course, everybody wants their house to sell. Was the plan to take the proceeds from this sale and put it on your current house, or did you buy your new house and. Tell me more about that?

[Caller]

No, I put. I put some down. So we owe 326,000 because the house was 430.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

So we just want to. We just want to pay the house. We don't want to have that. We don't want to pay the bank any interest.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure, but you're not. But what Jade's asking you is, are you in a financial squeeze because this thing has not sold yet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yet?

[Caller]

No, we're not.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, then. Then be patient. This is all about making sure your pricing is right and then just hold.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Just hold. I, I definitely don't want you to put a price that's too low because you're anxious and you just want to move it. You know, you're not.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree with that.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're not. Everything must go. You're not in that mo. In that mode. So just, you know, you got to know when to hold them.

[Ken Coleman]

Sit tight. I'm going to do a little bit of fork. I'm no real estate pro, but I, as you know, I pay way too much attention to the headlines.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Forecast for us.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm, I'm, I'm. I pay attention to what the Fed is doing and what they're saying. We are in a presidential election. I would not be surprised given where we are right now. We're seeing unemployment tick back up over four point. I think it's 4.1. The latest, the latest job report last month. Job report. We're starting to see a softening in the labor market. All of this in a presidential election. This is exactly what the Fed set out to do. Jerome Powell is on record as saying we've got to raise interest rates and it is going to cause pain in the employment market. And pain in the employment market. Okay. And then when we see interest rates high for the home industry, mortgage rates, this creates a cooling of consumer demand, of course, and consumer confidence, which then in turn, theoretically, theoretically, drops inflation.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, so all that to say, make it. Put it in more layman's terms, because the cooling is happening because everybody's holding onto their money.

[Ken Coleman]

It's exactly right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And so what's happening is people are also sitting and waiting to see what happens in the next quarter or the fourth quarter. As it relates to mortgage rates, I think you're going to see a slight rate cut in the third or fourth quarter. And I think you'll start to see people move back into the housing market. So I would sit tight if I'm in a position where I'm listing. I'm going to list it and stay with it. But I think you're going to see an increase in home sales as we look to the end of the year.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right. I love that because that's been it. Not enough homes on the market, not enough supply to meet the demand. You heard it first. You heard it here from Ken Coleman. Let's see, is he correct? This is the Ramsey Show.

[Ken Coleman]

It's one of the best times of the year, but it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's Just buy, buy, buy. So you start swiping the credit card and suddenly it's January and you got a mess on your hands. Don't let that happen. Tell your money where to go instead of wondering where it went with our budgeting app, Every Dollar everydollar not only helps you stay on budget and in control of your spending this holiday season, it also helps you find extra margin in your budget, thousands of dollars of it. And every day will coach you to build better money habits and attack your goals faster than ever. So while most people will be starting in January with a taste of regret in their mouth, you'll already be winning. Start Every Dollar for free by downloading the. Foreign. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Our scripture of the day comes from Luke, Luke 9:23. Then he said to them all, whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. Our course quote is from Mitch Albom. One half of knowing what you want is knowing what you must give up before you get it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Sounds like a recipe for getting out of debt.

[Caller]

Uh huh.

[Ken Coleman]

Taking control of your life in any area. All right, let's get to the phones. Laura is in Columbia, South Carolina. Laura, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, I was listening to y' all during the pandemic when y' all were talking about community college. I took yalls advice, went to community college, got a merit scholarship to university. I'm a senior. But thing is is I'm disabled. I've never work a day in my life. Most jobs are not available, are not possible for me to do, and I've always known I'd have to work with my brain instead of my body. I'm scared to enter the workforce and as a consequence of putting my all into college, I accidentally won a fellowship that affords me the right to go to almost any state school and even Ivy League if I wanted to.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. Wow.

[Caller]

I don't know if I don't know if I should give up disability, go to grad school or stay on disability or no, excuse me, give up disability and enter the workforce and don't take up the scholarship and don't go and don't pursue my education and continue it further or I don't know what.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let me joke. All right. I'm so glad you called. Do you mind telling us what is, what is your disability and how and what kind of work can you do because you've obviously done an incredible job in school and you're very bright. So what are your limitations?

[Caller]

I have a genetic bone and joint disorder. It also causes me to faint. If you're familiar with Ehlers Danlos syndrome and postural orthotic tachardia, I have those. I can't stand or sit for long periods of time. I do most of my classes on the computer. So I would be looking for a job in local, regional government or non profit work.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let me ask you this. Okay, let me ask you this. If you did not have those physical limitations, knowing what you know about yourself, what would be something that you would love to try professionally or something, you know, you enjoy doing?

[Caller]

I would like to work for the state or federal government on education policy.

[Ken Coleman]

So you really love education policy. Okay. And if you were to get one of those jobs, can you do that remote or can. Or would you have to do like. Because I'm thinking state government jobs and those are. Those are not remote. Have you, have you looked into that?

[Caller]

I have. That's the pipe dream. The realistic dream is a remote job for a nonprofit somewhere. I failed to mention I have no debt, but if I took the scholarship, it would cover 75% to almost any state or Ivy school.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so let's dream here. What if you. What if you just picked an Ivy League school? Assuming again, you could do everything online. Yes.

[Caller]

A few. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, that's what I thought. So what would that, that higher ed degree be?

[Jade Warshaw]

What.

[Ken Coleman]

What would you get? A master's PhD policy. Okay, you know who you are?

[Jade Warshaw]

100%.

[Ken Coleman]

And I love that you love policy, and you're talking to a policy wonk. Okay? I mean, I'd make Jade's eyes roll back in her head if I start talking policy, and James would turn my mic off. I know what you. I know you. I see you. I hear you, Laura. So I'm going to tell you something. It's 2024. I'd like to see you before you make either decision because you. You kind of asked Jade and I. Okay, should I do this, this or this, this? I think you need to do some more research here. And, And I think the research is solely around if I were to. To take those scholarship, that scholarship offer and I were to get that master's in public policy with my physical limitations. Is there a way. I would want to know that. I would want to know the multiple ways you. You understand what I'm saying when I say it that way?

[Jade Warshaw]

Way.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, good. I'd want to know that first. Now I'm going to say something else. I also think that the timing is right and I think you're going to have to work at this because I think there's some small minded people that would hear about your situation and they would consider that a polite nuisance. But I think there's some big minded, big hearted people who would go, you know what, figure out a way to do this. You know what I mean? Because I understand for you the, the idea that you could faint in any moment, that's, that's very, very humiliating for you. I'm guessing correct?

[Caller]

Right?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So. So you have to be 100% remote. Is that correct or is that just the preference?

[Caller]

I'm trying to work every day on physical therapy right now. I could pull. I'm not even going to say I think I could hold down a part time job because I don't think I.

[Ken Coleman]

Could just physically right.

[Caller]

If it was remote, maybe. But I'm trying my best.

[Ken Coleman]

But can I tell you something? How did you.

[Caller]

Undergrad degree I've got is worthless.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I know, but I think it proves something to you. How many hours a day were you putting into the undergrad work?

[Caller]

Sometimes 15. Usually about 10.

[Ken Coleman]

Sweetheart, if you can put 10 hours into a undergrad degree from home, you can put eight hours into a job from home.

[Jade Warshaw]

100. There's nothing different. It's you standing at a computer, it's you taking calls, it's you flipping books, it's you highlighting things, it's you reading all of those things. I mean, am I wrong?

[Ken Coleman]

No. That's why I brought in Jade. I wanted to see if my colleague is hearing what I'm hearing.

[Jade Warshaw]

I just hear a freaking workhorse who.

[Ken Coleman]

Doesn'T believe that she can actually do it. But you've actually already done it, I guess is what we're trying to say to you.

[Caller]

I'm scared to enter the workforce because I'm afraid that I'm gonna give up all my benefits and I'm gonna be homeless.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, here we go.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. But you can acknowledge to us that you can work eight hours a day, remote, yes or no, with my brain.

[Caller]

100.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what we're saying.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you've already, you've been doing it. You've proven the. You've proven it.

[Ken Coleman]

We're, we're on team lore right here. We're trying to cheer you up. So let's talk about the fear piece.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay?

[Ken Coleman]

You have no debt. Do you have an emergency fund?

[Caller]

No, I. I have about $40 in my bank account, and that's usually where it sits.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. What is your benefit. What's your disability payment coming into you every month?

[Caller]

About $1,500. I live out the school food pantry.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right, so I'm on public housing.

[Ken Coleman]

Jade, let's do the calculator here. I'm gonna. I'm gonna have Jade help me out here. So if she's making somewhere between 18 to $22 an hour, let's just do $20 an hour just for round numbers. Because with your. With your skill set. So you do the math 20 times 40. And so you're going to be. Here's my point. You're going to be making more than your disability payout, and you're going to. We're going to teach you how to build an emergency fund, and we can walk alongside of you. I want to get you set up with one free session with one of our financial coaches to help you see what my path looks like as I begin to make real money. And you're not going to be homeless. See, that's one thing about that disability payment. It will make you feel like I can't ever get rid of it when what it's really doing is holding you back.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

Jade, thoughts on that?

[Jade Warshaw]

It's the ultimate crutch, I think, that taking us, taking out of the equation the things that you want to do and what you love to do. There's a lot of jobs out there that you can work on your time, you can be remote, and you can make the. The money that Ken is talking about. $20 an hour, 40 hours a week, you know, four weeks out of the month, and bring home three, $200 instead of 1500. So I think that just opening up your mind and going, okay, like there's. There's possibilities here, you coming up with work on your own, figuring out other things that you could do within the parameters of what you enjoy doing. I think there's a lot of options out there. I think fear is blinding you from seeing all of those options. But you're more than capable, beyond capable. You've proven that. So that part is a. That's been established.

[Ken Coleman]

I wonder, Laura and Jade, what's the timeline? Maybe she gets a job and she stacks some money. How soon would you have to say yes or no to these scholarships.

[Caller]

With. I would say before February. I would graduate in May. I would have to move out of state by June.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm going to challenge you. We did this once before you start off the call saying that you heard us tell you to go to community college, you did it. You crush it. Here's the next challenge. Go get one of these remote jobs that Jade is talking about. Could be customer service, could be anything. Let's just stack some money and just prove to ourselves how much money we can make before February. And then make your decision. Laura, we believe in you. You're crushing. Good hour. Jade Warshaw. Always fun to be with you, my friend. Thanks, James Childs and our fearless band of merry men behind the glass. This is. This is the Ramsay Show.