Stop Letting Other People Wreck Your Finances

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show

Episode Title: Stop Letting Other People Wreck Your Finances
Date: October 23, 2025
Hosts: Rachel Cruze, George Kamel
Summary prepared by Podcast Summarizer

---

Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show, hosted by Rachel Cruze and George Kamel, centers on regaining and maintaining control over your finances, especially when outside influences—be it family, spouse, or personal decisions—threaten to throw you off track. Through real listener calls, the hosts offer practical, sometimes tough-love advice on managing debt, making big life and financial decisions, handling family dynamics, and keeping financial goals front and center even when pressured by others. Rachel and George blend candor and empathy, using the Ramsey Baby Steps as their north star for financial transformation.

---

Key Topics & Discussion Highlights

1. Swapping Debt for Debt: Breaking the Cycle

Caller: Sean from Springfield, IL

• Situation: Sean considers taking out a loan to pay off existing debt to lower his monthly payments and gradually get back on track.
• Advice: Rachel and George reinforce, “Swapping one payment for another doesn’t solve the underlying issue.” (01:05)
  • Rachel: “This is the reason you use gazelle intensity… find $1000 in the next 30 days by increasing income, not stretching your debt over more years.” (03:17)
  • George emphasizes prioritizing behavior change over shifting debt: “Find the secret sauce in your income… not moving the debt around.” (04:25)
• Notable Moment: Discovering Sean’s car is $6k underwater at a 23% interest rate. George exclaims:

  "Ding, ding, ding! Oh, gosh, we have a winner." (05:41)

• Solution Offered: Consider selling the car, take a loan for the negative equity, buy a cheaper car, and attack the remaining debts with urgency.

---

2. Values vs. Reality: When Your Calling and Your Budget Collide

Caller: Corinne from Little Rock, AR

• Situation: Stay-at-home mom balancing calling, family, and the financial reality of living beyond their means since moving for her husband’s pastor job.
• Key Challenge: High house payment eating half their $58k income; reliance on food banks pre-side job.
• George: “It’s going to need to be some give and take here… someone’s got to sacrifice. Either you give up the dream of being a stay-at-home mom, or he gives up the dream of being a pastor.” (17:29)
• Rachel: “The house… bought too much house. If you stayed within that 25% rule, that would be $800 back into your budget.” (16:02)
• Advice:
  • Explore side jobs or bivocational work for her husband.
  • Reassess priorities together and consider downsizing if needed.
• Gift: Ken Coleman’s book Find the Work You’re Wired to Do sent to help explore new vocational possibilities.

---

3. Spending Addiction & Lack of Motivation

Caller: Gabe from Kansas City

• Situation: 20-year-old DoorDash driver struggling to save—spends everything he makes, mostly on food delivery.
• George, with humor: “Love will find a way. Have you thought about deleting DoorDash and forcing yourself to go inside a grocery store?” (23:03)
• Advice:
  • Automate savings (“Pretend you make $1,000 a month and live off that.”) (30:02)
  • Build financial habits before graduation.
  • Rachel: “You’re not weird—you’re just 20.” (30:54)
• Encouragement: Live at home now, but move out after graduation to create urgency and real-world financial discipline.

---

4. Navigating Blended Family Inheritance & Retirement Planning

Caller: Jennifer from Dallas, TX

• Situation: Successful law firm winding down; concern over estate split (50% to stepchildren); feeling financially vulnerable due to age gap (husband 72, she’s 54) and lack of retirement planning input.
• Quote: Jennifer: “I find myself… at 54 with a law firm that’s winding down and not making money… he’s unbothered, and I’m not.” (35:43)
• Host Response:
  • Rachel: “He doesn’t have to understand your fear, but he needs to empathize. That’s a marriage issue, not just a financial issue.” (39:30)
  • Consider meeting with a financial advisor for third-party clarity and possibly revisiting the estate plan to protect her interests.
  • George: “There’s two pieces: him respecting your feelings, and just the math of it all.” (39:46)
• Memorable Exchange: George, on the estate split, jokes:

  "If he passes at 82, [his daughters] will be multi-multi-millionaires. They won't need the money." (41:29)

---

5. Cutting the Financial Umbilical Cord: Supporting Parents & Setting Boundaries

Callers:

• Sarah from Cleveland, OH: Husband, a neurosurgeon, sending $6K/mo (soon $12K/mo) to his immigrant parents who bought a $1.2M home.
  • Rachel: “You and your husband really need to sit down and paint a picture of what you want your life to look like in the next five to 10 years.” (71:29)
  • George: “You crossing wires because you aren’t aligned on money and values.” (70:09)
• G from Los Angeles: Concerned about how/when to push his 67-year-old, workaholic truck driver father to retire, given that he's built wealth in farmland/real estate.
  • Rachel: “You cannot control other people. If he's not curious or interested, it's not going to happen.” (62:11)
  • George: “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.” (63:13)

---

6. Avoiding Student Loan Catastrophe

Caller: Emma, high school senior from Minneapolis

• Situation: Got into dream private college ($38k/year); parents can’t help; she earned a partial scholarship, would still owe ~$105k.
• Reality Check:
  • Rachel: “There is a sign of maturity, Emma, that when you choose to live within your means you don’t get to do everything you want. That’s a true sign of an adult.” (48:40)
  • George: “My fear for you is that you can never be a summer camp director because there is no summer camp director job that pays enough to cover the payments on the student loans.” (51:41)
• Advice: Listen to parents’ wisdom; community college or a debt-free path is far preferable.

---

7. Safety, Financial Abuse & Taking Control

Caller: Jackie from Cincinnati

• Situation: Facing threats, abuse, and financial manipulation from husband (sole breadwinner, finance expert).
• Rachel, urgently: “I would drive to the bank, create a new checking account, and take half of the money out of your joint account.” (89:26)
• George: “We do not promote divorce—but if you lose safety, love, and trust, this is not a marriage anymore.” (87:50)
• Memorable, tough-love:

  Rachel: "Would you want this for your daughter? Never." (90:47)

• Action Steps: Seek safety, separate finances, contact attorney, find community support.

---

8. Debt Free Story & SmartDollar Impact

Caller: Carrie from Phoenix, AZ

• Situation: Paid off $33,000 (HELOC + credit card) in 18 months using SmartDollar from her employer (U-Haul) and budgeting with EveryDollar.
• Turning Point:
  • Carrie: “I was in my home gym, third credit card maxed, called for limit increase—they said no. That was the moment: something has to change.” (107:49)
• Outcome: Inspired son (who is also debt free), changed family tree; credits budgeting and changing habits as the real game-changer.

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• George Kamel: “Swapping one payment for another doesn’t solve the underlying issue.” (01:05)
• Rachel Cruze: “This is what gazelle intensity looks like. Find $1,000 in margin—it won’t be by slowing down your debt payments.” (03:17)
• Rachel Cruze: “Being stressed and broke, that’s not of the Lord.” (17:41)
• Rachel to caller Jackie: “If I woke up in your shoes… I would take half the money from the joint account, open your own checking account, and get to safety.” (89:26)
• Caller Carrie: “If I wanted to go out and eat, I just put it on the credit card and worried about it later. That was for future Carrie to figure out… It came quicker than I thought.” (109:03)
• Rachel on estate planning: “He doesn’t have to understand your fear, but he at least needs to empathize and hear it out.” (39:30)

---

Important Timestamps/Segments

• Debt shuffle & car loans: 00:42 – 09:01
• Pastor family finances & house burden: 11:05 – 20:02
• Young spender habits & DoorDash confession: 22:38 – 31:03
• Blended family estate/retirement planning: 33:21 – 43:06
• Supporting parents (Sarah, $6K/month; G, trucker dad): 54:21 – 63:13, 66:34 – 75:02
• Student loans & dream school reality check: 44:49 – 53:19
• Severe abuse/safety action steps: 86:01 – 94:06
• Debt free journey (Carrie): 106:19 – 114:01

---

Tone & Style

Direct, compassionate, sometimes humorous, but always practical and focused on action. Hosts use real-life examples and urgent advice, particularly on issues of financial (and personal) safety.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in the principle that regaining financial control often means making hard, countercultural choices—sometimes against the expectations of loved ones or society. The “Ramsey way” is about discipline, tough conversations, protecting yourself and your future, and never letting the financial decisions of others (or their expectations) divert you from your own financial freedom.

Remember: Don’t let others—spouse, family, culture, or even your past self—wreck your finances. You deserve peace, control, and the freedom to dream.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Rachel Cruze]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and co host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel. So we're here to take your calls. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. Up first, we have Sean in Springfield, Illinois. Hey, Sean, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. I'm a huge fan.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, well, thanks for calling in. How can we help?

[Caller]

So basically my question is, should I take a loan to pay off a debt? That way I have a little bit of breathing room so I can start baby step one.

[George Kamel]

Should you take the math on that one? You're going to take out a loan to pay off another loan and that somehow gives you breathing room. Aren't you just swapping one payment for another?

[Caller]

Yes, but if I took out the loan, I'd have a smaller payment because right now the loan is $500 a month. And that plus rent, plus my car payment and all my other insurance and groceries and all that puts me just barely making it by every month.

[Rachel Cruze]

What would the payment be?

[Caller]

Probably be closer to $100 a month instead of 500 by dragging it out. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so it's a $400 swing. How much do you make.

[Caller]

Without overtime? About 40,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Are you doing overtime now?

[Caller]

I'm getting as much overtime as I can. And it's kind of our slow season right now, so whenever I'm not at work, I'm door dashing.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

To make some extra money.

[Rachel Cruze]

What do you do?

[Caller]

I work in agriculture. So I drive. I move fertilizer to the fields and apply it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. So getting into winter months, you guys aren't.

[George Kamel]

What's your total debt?

[Caller]

My total debt is 20,000.

[George Kamel]

And what does that break that down for us?

[Caller]

17 of it is for my car and the other 3,000 is for this debt that's currently that I'm talking about.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. For your car. Have you Kelly blue booked it to see what you could sell it for?

[Caller]

Yeah, it on a private party is worth about 11.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so you're six grand underwater there and you're saying the 3K debt has a $500 a month payment?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's currently, I believe it's considered in collections. It's $250. Every paycheck for 11 more weeks and then you're done. Well, 11 more payments when I'm done. Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, Sean, I'll be honest. No, I probably wouldn't switch it because I feel like when you're getting out of debt or you're starting baby step one even, it's this gazelle intensity where you are working every minute of every waking day. If possible, you're door dashing on the week. I mean, you are, you're figuring out a way to get out of debt faster. So a part of me kind of wants you just to figure out how to do it because this is going to help you get out of debt faster. $500 a month as a minimum payment versus spreading it out. And I understand you're trying to get that margin, but I would pick up that $400 somewhere else from, from an income perspective, honestly, because, yeah, I feel like this is the reason why you would be gazelle intense. Like this is. This will fuel you and instead of kind of like slow you down because there's almost a level of. I understand what you're saying. That, yeah, that $400 a month, but I want you to get $1,000 in the next 30 days. So I don't know how you're gonna do it, but like that's, that's the baby step one intensity. It's not slowing down the payments so that I can have more margin to do baby step one. It is. We're going above and beyond our normal to be able to find extra money.

[George Kamel]

Cause that 3,000 debts, your smallest. So that's the next one to attack. Yeah, so I'd rather you putting more toward the principal, which is the 500, than putting 100 toward it just so you can get your baby step one. The key here is finding the secret sauce in your income to be able to do the baby steps not to move the debt around and add more debt in order to try to make it work. Because that's not changing any behavior that got us here. And also that car is half your income. So that's another glaring issue here. And you're way underwater on. Did he roll over? Negative equity. Why is it worth so little?

[Caller]

So I got the car the beginning of September and I needed a.

[Rachel Cruze]

Two months ago.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

6,000 in like 60 days.

[Caller]

I am like 90% positive I overpaid for it.

[George Kamel]

So you got hosed a dealership.

[Caller]

Do what?

[George Kamel]

I'm sorry, you get hosed at a dealership. Like, who sold you this car? Like, who hates you that much?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's. It Was car wise. So, you know, the whole one dime down, take a car home today, kind of.

[George Kamel]

So you probably got a crazy high. What's the interest rate on this?

[Caller]

23%.

[George Kamel]

There we go. Ding, ding, ding. Oh, gosh, we have a winner. Okay, that sales guy must have just been like on his smoke break. Like, you would not believe this. 23% on this last.

[Rachel Cruze]

Come on, Sean, he already made the mistake.

[George Kamel]

I know. I'm just like. You went in there for a vehicle, right? Just something reliable.

[Caller]

Yeah, because my truck had just broken down.

[George Kamel]

I'm trying to make this, like, help me and everyone understand like what happens in these scenarios. So you go in and you say, here's the payment I can afford. And they go, we can make that work.

[Caller]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Rachel Cruze]

Which. That's normal, Sean. I don't know why George is being so. I'm not.

[George Kamel]

I just trying to show people the tricks of the dealership.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right.

[George Kamel]

That is because someone else is about to fall for that who's desperate for a reliable dealer.

[Rachel Cruze]

And it's the urgency that they pick up on my. My truck is dead. And people are like, perfect, I got a guy who. Of payment you're looking for. Desperation is here. We can do it. So don't fall for it, people. Everyone listening. So, Sean, I almost would be curious if you went down to your credit union and got a $10,000 loan, paid off the difference of the truck, got a $4,000 crappy car off some highway in Illinois and called it a day. And I'd rather have $10,000 and a less payment and not paying 23% interest.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. What's your payment? What does that free up to attack that 3,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

You didn't have the car payment. What's the car payment?

[Caller]

My car payment currently, like for the car I have right now, my car payment is 461amonth.

[George Kamel]

Okay, that gets you your baby step one in two months. Just if you free up that car payment without doing any other changes to your life. Yeah, and I would be working as much overtime as you can, as much doordash and side hustles as you can. And see is there room to grow in this agriculture field? Because it kind of worries me that like, if this is the top, we got to find something else.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, household is around 67,000. Just to kind of give you a ballpark. So you, you know, 40,000. I mean, yeah, you're, you're, you're kind of under, you're under that. So I just wonder what else is out there for you from your, from a primary income perspective, how to get that up?

[Caller]

There is room to grow, and I do get a 3% raise every year.

[George Kamel]

That's going to take a while to get to, you know, 50, 60. Because what we're looking at is the next five years, not just to get out of this debt. And so I'm looking for your future, Sean, to go. How can Sean build some wealth? How can Sean become a homeowner one day and have money to invest on top of just surviving and covering the bills? And right now you're in that paycheck to paycheck survival cycle.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. So, Sean, I think if we woke up in your shoes, we would probably go get like a $10,000 loan from the credit union, sell the car, pay off the difference, take some of that money and go and buy a crappy car, keep your $500 payments and find the margin through the income persp to get that thousand dollars. I'd make it a goal. Do it in the next four weeks. Find a thousand dollars in four weeks selling stuff, whatever you got to do, and then start attacking that $3,000 debt because you'll get that paid off. I think you're going to start feeling some momentum. But there's got to be a real big sense of urgency on.

[George Kamel]

Dave. We got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. It's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work, so it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you. You find the right plan whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

[George Kamel]

And that's why Zander is our go to they make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

I've trusted Jeff, Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family.

[George Kamel]

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Rachel Cruze]

Up next, we have is it Corinne? Corrine Corinne from Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I wrote this out. So here we go. It's not long. I just didn't want to get it wrong. So I'm a stay at home mom. I'm a stay at home mom of two kiddos, just started homeschooling this year and my husband works at a pastor as a pastor at a church and he currently does not make enough money for our family to live off of. And so how do I navigate a conversation about looking for a new job all while trying to make sure that we are following God's plan for my husband's call and ministry?

[George Kamel]

Interesting. What's he making?

[Caller]

58,000 a year.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so we're not like poverty level here. I thought he was like a youth pastor making, you know, $30,000. And it was a struggle. But 58,000. Do you guys have debt?

[Caller]

We have only about like 4,5000 in debt, 2000 on our car. And then we had to borrow money from my father in law, 2500. I actually picked up a contract job to kind of help pay off that debt. But it's causing a lot of stress with just balancing homemaking, homeschooling, you know, all the different levels of being a mom. So anyway, I don't want to do that long term. It's definitely helpful in the meantime, but it's not like the vision that we had for a family.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much would you say in your monthly budget if you had x amount more per month would make you feel like have some breathing room and a little bit more comfortable.

[Caller]

I mean even like 1 to 2000 extra because when I was before doing this contract work, I've only done it for three months. It we were doing food banks and stuff. So we're at that level. And that sounds crazy because you're like, you know, you're not $30,000. It is almost twice as much as that, but yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you guys have a pretty detailed budget, would you say, on what you spend on groceries and gas and like, I mean, do y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is it pretty laid out that you guys have boundaries around categories and what you're spending?

[Caller]

Yes. Okay, definitely.

[Rachel Cruze]

And what's your mortgage?

[Caller]

Our mortgage is 2,000, so it's about half of our income.

[George Kamel]

Okay, that explains a lot of.

[Rachel Cruze]

Probably a lot of it, honestly. That's where that extra thousand dollars that you're looking for that you need breathing room is tied up in the mortgage payment. Yeah. How much do you guys have left on the house?

[Caller]

Oh, we just moved here to the area last year. We're housebroke. Kind of like scrambled to move here for this job because we felt like that's what God was calling us to do.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

Bought the house out of budget. And so that's kind of. Now we're like, yeah, now what? You know, kind of a situation for sure.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I mean, from. I mean, does the church. If you. If you talk to him, is. Is he. I mean, I hate to just say, like, go get a raise from your church.

[George Kamel]

Has he talked to his leadership?

[Rachel Cruze]

Is there an elder board? Is there a. Is there anyone that he's going to that knows, or does he even know that you feel this way?

[Caller]

Yeah, we know definitely. He knows the church is not as healthy as it should be. And so the conversation he has had has kind of been like, check back in. In six months. Let's check back in, you know, the new fiscal year to see what we can. How we can do anything. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

What would he be doing if he wasn't a pastor? If he went and go when got a different job?

[Caller]

I don't know. He's been a pastor his entire answer. Worship pastor. So it's not like elite pastor.

[George Kamel]

He's.

[Caller]

But he's been one his entire adult life. That's how I met him as a pastor and had kids all while doing older, you guys, 34.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Okay, here. Here's my take. It might be a fallacy that he's going to go out and get a job paying more than 60, doing something else tomorrow. Like, that might be a pipe dream right now. And so what I've seen, and this is pastors in my life, you know, I was part of a church plant and the pastor was bivocational. And so he did handyman work and woodworking and started an Etsy store on top of his pastoral duties. So I think he needs to start doing that on the side and maybe that thing turns full time and maybe God blesses him at the church and things get healthier and he gets a raise there. But at least then we kind of have a better clue as to what the next step is.

[Caller]

Mm.

[George Kamel]

Is he open to doing side work?

[Caller]

I don't know. We've never talked about it before.

[Rachel Cruze]

Does he go in, obviously, 40 hours a week to the church?

[Caller]

Yeah. Or more? Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. And I wonder his responsibilities there. I mean, they're paying him, I guess, you know, a full salary, so I'm assuming that, yeah, there's stuff to be done and he has responsibilities there. Yeah. I mean, I mean, the biggest glaring thing to me, I hate to say is the house. I just think you guys bought too much of a house. If you stayed within that 25% range of your income, which is what we teach, that would be, you know, which means $800 probably. Yeah, $800 back into the paycheck of what you're looking at. So either he makes a career shift. If he doesn't see an income going up soon, Right. In the church, you know, again, I'm not making them the bad guy by any means, but it is what they have, and that's what they have. That's the salary that you guys took to come here. But if you can't make that work as a family, then I think you guys do need to have a bigger conversation as a family. And I think, you know, and I know you know this, but just encourage you, like service and doing work as a believer unto the Lord can look a thousand different ways. And I know in ministry specifically, people can get very comfortable in that world. It's the only world they've known. So even to step out into something that's totally different kind of feels scary and all of that. But. But again, that's your personal conviction of what you guys feel led to and called to. But I.

[George Kamel]

It.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's. I don't know, it's hard for me to navigate it because I don't know you guys personally and what. You know what I'm saying?

[George Kamel]

We can't be like, well, how do you know that's God's calling? If you say it, we believe it. You know what I mean? And so there's a piece of this where we go, well, someone's gotta sacrifice. Either you need to give up the dream of being a stay at home mom, he needs to give up the dream of being a pastor.

[Rachel Cruze]

Cause right now, to make it work.

[George Kamel]

Being stressed and broke, that's not of the Lord, I think we can all at least agree on that. Like that's not a good future where we're gonna thrive. And so it's gonna need to be some give and take here and it might be some of it temporary, the side jobs to just clean up the debt, get a good emergency fund, then reassess where we're at. And can we still accomplish all of our goals, cover the bills, invest for the future? If we can, then great. I have a feeling though we're gonna need income shift if we're going to keep up our current lifestyle and keep the house.

[Rachel Cruze]

How old are the kids?

[Caller]

4 and 6.

[Rachel Cruze]

4 and 6. Okay, so they would be starting kindergarten next year in second grade, I guess.

[Caller]

Yeah, right?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah. And so that, and that's the hard thing about in today's world. And a lot of people that call in, you know, are in a very similar boat, Corinne, where, you know, you have these, you have, you have your, your wish list of what you want life to look like. You want to be a stay at home mom, you want to homeschool, your husband wants to do ministry, you wanna live in this house, you wanna, you know, this is the wish list of life that you start to live out and then you realize, oh gosh, but there is a reality, and this is not, this is not negative of what God's will is. There's a reality of living in 2025, that the numbers have to work. You know, you just, it is what it is. So something on that list, the prioritization of what you guys value is gonna have to shift. So I don't know if that's sending kids to school and you get a part time job and you make 20 grand a year and it's softens everything and you guys, you know, get to do that. I don't know if that is him shifting career. I don't know what that looks like, but that's a value system that you guys have to paint for your family and where you guys feel comfortable to figure out how to make this math work. But yeah, and yeah, the house, the house is hard for me.

[George Kamel]

It's just an immovable object unless we sell it and downsize. And I don't know if you can rent in Little Rock with a family of four for way less.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right?

[George Kamel]

So that's the other part of this. It's just hard. I mean the housing market's tough. And so here's what I will do. I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, find the work you're wired to do. I think it will unlock some things for your husband, maybe even for you to figure out what are the things in the short term or long term we can be doing to create a more sustainable future for ourselves. Yeah. So hang on the line. Will gift you that. And I hope he realizes that there might be more than this church job and maybe he can do ministry outside of that in the public or private sector.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Or on the side, like what you were saying. You know what I mean? How do we make the numbers work for our family? What does that look like? And I think saying, you know, the God's will, his calling, that's a very subjective. I don't know, that's a very subjective card to play and that's different for everyone. But I do think you can do incredible work for the kingdom and it doesn't have to be in the walls of the church.

[George Kamel]

Amen. For way too long I struggled with sleep and woke up groggy after tossing and turning all night. But now I look forward to bedtime and I wake up bright eyed and bushy tailed. Thanks to Casper, a company that's been perfecting better sleep for over a decade. Using durable, high quality materials that actually last my whole family now sleeps on Casper mattresses. Yes, even the dogs have their own Casper dog bed. To no one's surprise, and it's not just one man's opinion, Casper customers keep their mattresses for years and 4 out of 5 customers recommend them to friends. And with free delivery and 100 night trial, Casper is no gimmicks. A mattress you can trust backed by quality that lasts. So go to Casper.com Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey to receive 25% off all mattresses and 10% off everything else. With code Ramsey, that's Casper. Dot exclusions apply.

[Rachel Cruze]

The all new everydollar is here. And if you've had the app now, it is more than just a budgeting tool. It was like the best budget that you, if you need a budget, download every dollar. But now we're so excited that it's not just a budgeting app. It's looking at your entire financial overview. So everything walking you through the Ramsey plan. And it has so many advanced features to really help you make progress faster. It makes things convenient and easy to see and it's incredible. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So there's this big questionnaire you go through and there's recommendations on what to do with your current situation. And it is Incredible. So start every dollar. You can get it in the App Store or on Google Play. All right, up next, we have Gabe in Kansas City. Hi, Gabe. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi, how are you guys?

[Rachel Cruze]

We're doing great. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, so how do I stop spending everything I make so I can start reaching financial goals for myself?

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, interesting. What are you spending money on?

[Caller]

Well, honestly, mostly doordash, but then just random stuff. Like, I always find a way, no matter how much money comes in the paycheck, to spend it all.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's fair.

[George Kamel]

Love will find a way. Have you thought about, like, deleting the doordash app and forcing yourself to go inside of a grocery store?

[Caller]

Yeah, well, I actually didn't. I did that, like, two days ago. And like you said, love will find a way. It's just like a creeping addiction, you know?

[George Kamel]

So you see, like, the zucchini you bought three days ago, and you're like, ah, doordash sounds better. I'm redownloading it. Yeah, like going back to an abusive.

[Rachel Cruze]

Ex to a zucchini. Why don't you at least say, like.

[George Kamel]

Well, we all aspirational grocery shop. You know what I mean? We're like, you know what? I'm going to eat a zucchini.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm going to eat a whole bag of spinach.

[George Kamel]

I saw a good Instagram air fryer zucchini recipe.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm going to eat thing of spinach.

[George Kamel]

Well, Gabe, here's the thing. What are your financial goals? Because I think they have to be big enough and powerful enough to fuel your love of doordash to stop that.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, first is get a car. Then after that, a house. And then after that, cracked a million marks in net worth.

[George Kamel]

Love it. Those are great goals.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay?

[George Kamel]

That's the American dream summed up.

[Rachel Cruze]

What are you doing for a living right now?

[Caller]

Right now. It's not good. I'm actually working for the master. I feed I doordash a lot for my question.

[George Kamel]

Wait, what?

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, no wonder it's easy because you're around it all the time. Like this Taco Bell sells.

[George Kamel]

Wait, do you drive for doordash?

[Rachel Cruze]

I'll pay myself to do it again.

[George Kamel]

Okay, you're not working for, like, doordash corporate. You're like a.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, he's a doordasher. He's.

[George Kamel]

Okay, how old are you?

[Rachel Cruze]

Running around food for people. Yeah, how old are you?

[George Kamel]

I'm 20.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, you're 20. Okay.

[George Kamel]

Are you in school? Did you not go to college? What happened?

[Caller]

Yeah, well, I'm in School for business management right now.

[George Kamel]

Okay, what do you want to do with that?

[Caller]

Well, ideally, you know, you get a short term management job to kind of build up a nest egg and then go out on my own and try my hand at the entrepreneurial. I can't talk.

[George Kamel]

So you want to work in management of something like is it retail, is it corporate? Have you sort of drilled down into that to what you'd be most into?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'd be most into corporate, but obviously if someone offers me a job paying more than doordash does, I'll take it at this point.

[George Kamel]

Okay, how much longer in school?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, when you graduate?

[Caller]

I'm expecting next summer.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Cash flowing. It. Are you going to debt?

[Caller]

Cash flowing.

[George Kamel]

Great.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you have any debt?

[Caller]

I have $200 in credit cards.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, we got that. It's good. Okay, Gabe, you know what I'm going to say you're, I'd say you're a typical 20 year old guy. I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I think you need a little bit of motivation and I think when you're in school you have a part time job, you know, you got to just float your expenses. I mean, are you living at home? How, what, what are you doing like for rent and all of that?

[Caller]

Yeah, no, right now I'm living at home, which probably doesn't help the spending.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, well, it's fine. I mean you're in college. I think that's totally appropriate. So what do you have to pay for? What are the things that are, you're responsible for?

[Caller]

Right now it's just my phone and gas.

[Rachel Cruze]

Phone and gas. Okay.

[George Kamel]

And what are you making every month?

[Caller]

Naturally it varies, but it's usually about two grand a month.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Because if I'm you, I have very little motivation to even go work when my only two things I need to survive is covering a phone bill and gas.

[Rachel Cruze]

And because you're a full time college student, so you're in, you're, you're in college, which I don't think it's bad.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, that's great. You're in college, you're doing well in your classes, you're gonna graduate on time.

[Rachel Cruze]

So I think the best thing for you, Gabe, honestly right now is to work on your habits. And you need to start creating some new financial routines and so you can do this, you can even automate some of this. I don't always recommend that for people. Cause I kind of like people's behavior to change because they're actually the ones doing It. But for you, I would almost say, yeah, make it a goal where you save, you know, half of that, maybe. You save. What if you saved a thousand dollars a month? Because how much does your phone and gas cost?

[Caller]

Not much. It usually shakes out to around 3, 400.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. So, yeah, what if you gave yourself 600 bucks to spend on how you want and then save half of your income and you do that for the next, golly, six months, you'd have $6,000 when you graduate. That'll help you upgrade a car and actually start moving. But. But you can even go in and automate some of this. Like you can, you know, set up some systems in place with online banking and that kind of thing that when your paycheck hits, it's like, pay yourself first. Yeah, absolutely. I'd be giving some too. I think there's a practice of generosity in there. Give, you know, it's ever how much you want, but even 200 bucks a month, practice that part, practice the saving part, and then you can still enjoy some of it. So I think you're in a good spot. I think it's just the habits and the routines month to month that you need to change. And when you kind of get those in place, you start to be disciplined. You start to know what you're doing, you're telling your money what to do. And then when you graduate and you get your first job, those habits just go in from a $2000 a month to maybe a $5000, $6000 a month salary. And, you know, you've changed the way that you handle your money. Literally, your behavior changes.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

I was exactly like you, Gabe. I'm looking back at when I was.

[Rachel Cruze]

You were not that much of a spender.

[George Kamel]

No. But when I was living at home, I was working at the Apple store.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And every paycheck would just go to like, gear and just spend. I didn't, I wasn't saving any of it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, because there's no urgency.

[George Kamel]

Exactly.

[Rachel Cruze]

I was living at home.

[George Kamel]

And so I just, I remember feeling that way, Gabe. And what unlocked it for me was getting out of the house. I moved across the country, started fresh, finished school, and that sort of put a new pep in my step to go, listen, mom's not going to save you with her home cooked meals. You got to cover this.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, do you?

[George Kamel]

No, I'm saying once he graduates, though, he has to just go ahead and find an actual job. Don't stick around home saying, well, I could save up for a house faster. And all of a sudden, you spent 500 bucks on DoorDash.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, that's right. That's right. Yeah. So when you graduate, you need to move out. That needs to be.

[George Kamel]

Create some problems for yourself. Because we are wired to solve problems, and right now you just don't have many, which is not a bad thing. But if you want to accomplish your financial goals, you kind of need to have some. Some, you know, some mojo.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And right now it's hard to have that when mom is folding the laundry.

[Rachel Cruze]

Gabe, what kind of car do you have right now?

[Caller]

Well, right now I don't have anything. I'm driving my dad's for doordash.

[George Kamel]

Oh, whoa. How does he feel about that?

[Caller]

He feels fine about it because he does it part time too, so, you know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

He doesn't really mind.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, well, I would make that a goal then. I think that's a great. You said that. But I would re. Yeah, I would reiterate. Yeah. If you. And if you saved $1,000 a month, Gabe, I mean, you have a $6,000 car in six months. You know what I mean? Like it.

[George Kamel]

Do you have a high yield savings account, Gabe?

[Caller]

Yeah, I do. I'm shopping around for another one because I'm not a fan of the one I have.

[George Kamel]

Perfect. We got just the one for you. Go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey. They just created a new bundle for our fans. It's got a great high yield savings account. And so you can actually attach your checking and savings and then start to automate that thousand bucks a month. Just go straight from checking into that high yield savings. And like Rachel said, if you automate that, you'll just pretend the thousand bucks never existed. So pretend you make a thousand bucks a month and now we have to work live off of that. That helped retrain my brain as well.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Make sure to check that out. And you'll get the Ramsey debit card with that bundle.

[George Kamel]

Oh, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And it says debt is normal. Be weird. You're not deeply in debt, Gabe, but at least you kind of get that reminder. Yeah. Every time.

[George Kamel]

Especially as you enter adulthood. It's so easy to be tempted to take out the car loan, open the credit card, go into debt, take out the personal loan, whatever it is. And so this will help you avoid that temptation.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. For sure.

[George Kamel]

This is very natural. You're 20. You're not weird, you're just 20.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. Just put some disciplines and new habits in place. I think you're going to be fine. But George Camel is spender.

[George Kamel]

What can I say? Left to my own devices with Mama Camel cooking at home.

[Rachel Cruze]

Unbelievable.

[George Kamel]

I'm spending every $16 an hour. I.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

If you've got collectors breathing down your neck and you're drowning in credit card debt, you don't need another debt relief company trying to sell you sunshine and unicorns. You need real help. And Guardian Litigation Group is the real deal. They're not a call center. They're actual attorneys. That means when a creditor tries to sue you, they can step into the courtroom and fight back. Now listen, debt settlement isn't pretty. It's not a magic wand. And I'd prefer you get out of debt the old fashioned way. But if you're staring down bankruptcy and you've got no other way out, Guardian gives you a path to clean up the mess without paying a dime up front. Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55,000 people across the nation settle over $600 million of debt. So if you're ready to take back control of your life and stop cringing every time the phone rings, go to guardianlit.com Ramsey that's guardianlit.com Ramsey paid endorsement.

[George Kamel]

Attorney advertising Guardian Litigation Group LLP not available in Minnesota and Oregon. Results vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Debt settlement may negatively affect credit and not all creditors will negotiate or settle. Savings vary and may be taxable. Please review terms for more information.

[Rachel Cruze]

Are you on track with the baby steps? The baby steps are seven steps for you to get control of your money, become debt free, start building wealth, and changing your family tree. Well, if you're curious where you are in that process, you can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the Show Notes and click the link titled are you on track with the baby steps? And complete the quiz. Up next, we have Jennifer in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Jennifer.

[Caller]

Hi, how are you?

[Rachel Cruze]

We're doing great. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Well, here is my situation. I am 54 and my husband is 72 and we've been married 23 years. We've had a pretty successful law firm for about the last 25 years together. But it's winding down now and it's kind of to the point where neither of us are taking a salary anymore and anything that we generate is pretty much going back into the business to keep it afloat and, you know, make monthly payroll, which is about 20,000amonth generally. And we have no debt, which is great. And we haven't for a long time. We own our home and our law firm free and clear. But I Find myself kind of in a weird situation, being worried about the future for a couple of reasons. And I will say my husband is not. And I think it's probably because he's 20 years my senior, and I kind of feel like I'm in a different boat than him. Even though we're in the same marriage, I've never not had a paycheck or a salary in, like, my entire career as a. As a lawyer, even before. And it makes me uncomfortable at this, you know, age in my life. And number two is the way our estate is set up is he was married before me, and he's got two adult children. And as it currently stands, 50% of my wealth goes away to his adult children, who are married to pretty wealthy guys. So I find myself at 54 with a law firm that's winding down and not really making any money anymore and not. Not really knowing what the future looks like. And he's pretty unbothered. And I'm not, because he's like, I'm.

[Rachel Cruze]

Probably going to go first, right?

[George Kamel]

He's like, you'll have to deal with the fallout. Not me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, no. Okay. I know.

[Caller]

I keep trying to gently remind him of that. And we've got assets of about 3 million in cash. Our home is worth about 600,000. Like I said, there's no mortgage. We own our law firm. It's probably worth about 750,000 to a million dollars. So from the outside looking in, people think we're in great shape, but there's just such a, you know, age disparity, and I just don't know what to do. It stresses me out, and he thinks I'm crazy.

[George Kamel]

What do you want to do? If you snap your fingers today, what happens?

[Caller]

I don't really. I don't know. That's a problem for me because this is my whole identity. This is all I've ever known. I've been a lawyer for 25 years.

[George Kamel]

So you could still be a lawyer and sell the law firm, couldn't you? You sell it for a million bucks, you split it.

[Caller]

I don't. I don't know that I want to continue practicing law. It would be nice not to have to work anymore, but, like, I don't have retirement.

[Rachel Cruze]

You said 3 million is your total nest egg, including the house, Is that right?

[Caller]

No, the house and the law firm are separate.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so what's the 3 million in stocks?

[Caller]

Let's see. 401ks. Yeah, but he's kind of controlled all that. Like, I just. I got married to him. And let him just take over. So, yeah, another thing I probably wish I would have done differently.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So you guys need to be aligned, otherwise you can't really make any moves.

[Caller]

It sounds like he just thinks there's nothing to worry about. And I'm.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, because I guess the question is, say, let's just pretend you sell the law firm. Say, say he passes away tomorrow. Okay. We'll just like, sorry, not to be horrible.

[Caller]

No, I get it, I get it.

[Rachel Cruze]

You sell the law firm for a million. You got 3 million. That's 2. That's 4 million divided in half. 2 million is going to the kids. 2 million is going for. To you. So the question is, Jennifer, to you. If it was invested and you were able to get to that 2 million, you were able to live off of that and what it would bring per year, could you do that? I mean, that'd be, what, 10%?

[George Kamel]

If you pulled 100 grand out a year, could you live off of that?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we've always lived within our means, and I think that's why we've been able to stay out of debt, unlike most of our friends. And so I feel good about it. I mean, we've done everything right. I just feel. I mean, the world kind of looks scary to me now in a way that it didn't before.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure. Okay. Yeah. Well, so I think from a very basic numbers perspective, we know you're going to be okay with if something happened tomorrow. Now, the question is, nothing is going to happen probably tomorrow, knock on wood. But, you know, there's no diagnosis. There's nothing like, you know, in the, in the urgent near future. So the next question is, what is the next to George's question, what he said earlier, you know, the next five to ten years, what's ideal for you from a money perspective? I think you would say run some numbers and just be like, okay, you know, I think I'd feel more comfortable if there was 3 million that I, you know, if we could build it up to whatever, like, maybe a numbers perspective, what that would make you feel even more peace from a. From a career standpoint. You're 54 is what you said. And.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I don't know if you want to work for four more years and maybe you still. And you take a salary still be like, yeah, it'd be great to be working for four more years. I want to get paid for my work.

[Caller]

I'd love to.

[Rachel Cruze]

And then we sell it in five years. I don't know, like, kind of Just mapping out some dreaming. And it would be great if he would be involved in that too. Right? You can do it yourself. But it also would be fun to go to a nice dinner and get a bottle of wine and be like, hey, let's just dream for the next five to 10 years. What do we want life to look like? Because he's gonna be 82 in 10 years. And so between now and then, he'll.

[George Kamel]

Be old enough to run for president. That'll be really fun.

[Caller]

Oh, God, I would kill him first.

[George Kamel]

I kidding.

[Caller]

He's pretty unbothered by all of this. He's just like, I think you worry too much. You'll be fine.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so that, to me, yeah, that's a breakdown in communication from him because he doesn't have to understand your fear, but he at least needs to empathize and hear it out and actually meet you in that. Right. And that's more of a relational marriage moment, not just a financial advice.

[George Kamel]

There's two pieces to this. Him respecting your feelings, and then the other side is just the math of it all. And what can we do for that part? Have you guys worked with a financial advisor you trust to actually have a third party? Unbiased. Just look at all of this.

[Caller]

He has had a bad experience with that in the past and has kind of just taken over doing it himself. Been really good, and we haven't had to pay anybody else, but I've left it all to him. So I feel a little bit in the dark, number one. And number two, I just have an issue with half of our money going away to adult kids. And I know that's him and me. You know what I mean? It's just like, they don't have anything to worry about. They're in their 30s and early 40s. I'm not. And I helped build this practice to where it is now. They didn't.

[George Kamel]

Do you guys have a will and trust that lays us all out? And maybe you can make some adjustments with an estate attorney.

[Caller]

Yes, we do. And we have made some adjustments to it before. It was like 30%. It was like a third. A third? A third. Me and them both.

[George Kamel]

Girls, why don't you get half the.

[Rachel Cruze]

Law firm and the kids get whatever. If you're the one that built it, help to build it.

[Caller]

The law firm and the house. But it's the cash and everything else that you know, and. And then cash is important to me. If something happened to him tomorrow, I mean, sure, a law firm is only as good as someone's gonna Pay for it when you sell it, you know, in cash.

[Rachel Cruze]

100. Do you guys have kids together? Did y' all have kids together?

[Caller]

No, I don't have kids. O. I'm a stepmom.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah, because. And again, another blended family. People do it so many different ways.

[George Kamel]

It's more complicated.

[Rachel Cruze]

For sure it is. But the natural progression, because y' all don't, you don't have kids yourselves is that it goes to you and then when you pass, it goes to the girls. Right? That would be the natural.

[Caller]

I think it should be.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And to your point, they're doing fine. Like, if he passes at 82, they're going to be multi, multi millionaires by then. Not even needing this money.

[Rachel Cruze]

How's your relationship with the girl? Girls?

[Caller]

Great. It's wonderful. But I mean, this would be a problem. I mean, I mean, money, I've just seen it, it just tears people apart. Yeah, no, I've never expressed that I feel any sort of way about it. I've just told him this is really unnecessary when I'm in a different age bracket and they both are married to very wealthy men. They don't need the money.

[Rachel Cruze]

Does he, does he get this, like, what you're saying to all of us with your amount of like, passion and absoluteness? Do you give that to him? Does he see that side of you?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, okay. She's like, probably more than what I'm doing.

[George Kamel]

Is he just hard headed and stubborn and goes, nah, you're making a mountain out of a Molehill. Everything's fine.

[Caller]

1,000%.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, okay. He probably uses that term at 72.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, yeah, I hate to say, Jennifer, that to me, that's a breakdown in marriage communication because you have a husband that you are legitimately. You're a intelligent woman that's communicating very clearly and you are getting completely pushed aside. No, what do they call it? Not ghosted. You're getting. What do they call it?

[George Kamel]

Is there a word for that?

[Rachel Cruze]

What do the kids say where they're like, I'm not. That didn't, that didn't happen. What do they call that?

[George Kamel]

Wow, you're showing your age. Now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Get ready.

[George Kamel]

What do the kids say?

[Rachel Cruze]

Next, Next segment, I'm going to remember the word. But that's what's happening to Jennifer and that's a marriage breakdown.

[George Kamel]

Start with that first.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Finally, mortgage rates have dropped and you know what that means. People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their home buyer Edge program gives you peace of mind. In a wild market, you can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com to get started today. That's ChurchillMortgage.com this is a paid advertisement.

[George Kamel]

Owned by your Edge and seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in all states or locations. NMLS ID 1591 nmlsconsumeraccess.org/housing lender.

[Rachel Cruze]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with George Camel and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Up next, we have Emma in Minneapolis. Hi, Emma. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you so much.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So I am a senior in high school and freshly 18 years old and I got into my dream college and I don't know how to tell my parents.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

I thought there was going to be something bad that happened, but this is good. So give us the context of why this is bad news for your parents.

[Caller]

So my dream school for my whole life has been University of Northwestern St. Paul, whole lot.

[George Kamel]

Since you were zero years old, you're like, this is on my dream Pinterest board. Board. Is that.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's a. Is that a private school?

[Caller]

Yes, it's private and Christian.

[George Kamel]

Yep.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much is that tuition?

[Caller]

It's about 38, 000 a year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay. So what have you and your parents talked about when it comes to college?

[Caller]

So I've known for a very long time that my parents were not going to help us. We're not going to help me with college. I'm the oldest of six kids and my dad's income.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so they don't want me to go there because they don't want me to go into student loan debt. Which I understand.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. 100%. What?

[Caller]

I haven't.

[Rachel Cruze]

I think you have probably 99% of people listening to this saying, yep, we agree with your parents. We. We are. And so you've not told them because you're gonna go. And you're gonna go take on essentially, over four years, $160,000.

[Caller]

What I haven't told them is I got.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

What I haven't told them is that I got a partial ride scholarship.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, well, that's great. Okay, so how much does that cover?

[Caller]

It covers about $44,000 over all four years.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so you're down to like, you'll owe 120 or something. What's the number?

[Caller]

It's $11,000 a year for all four years. So I'm down to like $105,000.

[George Kamel]

Okay. And how much do you have saved?

[Caller]

I actually do not have a savings account. I have been helping my parents with the bills and stuff. I work.

[George Kamel]

So they're struggling financially.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, wow. And you're working part time and that money that you're working for is going to the household?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Was this a something you're doing out of kindness or was it like a, hey, if you're gonna live under a roof, you gotta help around because times are tough?

[Caller]

No, it's kindness.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

And they're. And they're in there, they're taking your money?

[Caller]

Yes and no. They. So I contribute. I help pay for groceries and stuff. And I am aware that some of the money that I'm paying them, they're putting in a savings account for me. I just don't know how much that is.

[George Kamel]

So we can get some clarity on that, we got to know if it's a thousand or ten thousand.

[Caller]

I think if my math is right, it should be around 8,000.

[George Kamel]

And what if it's zero? What if they spent it all?

[Caller]

I don't know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, well, I hate to say it. I mean, I know there's, you know, people are in different circumstances financially, but asking an 18 year old to help provide for the family, that's tough for me. So I would, I would hope that they just took the money and put it in a savings account, but I would ask them tonight because it is October, and if you're a senior in high school, you know, you're starting to get early admission. I mean, it's what you're doing. You're getting college, you're, you know, you've sent out college applications, you're getting the letters in, you're figuring out your next steps, and you do that around this time. And so for you, Emma, to know, going into the next nine months of like what you have to work with, with and staying within that. So I want to be really kind because I really appreciate the dream school. I know that, you know, you've thought about it and all of it. But there is a sign of maturity, Emma, that when you choose to live within your means, you don't get to do everything you want. And that's a true sign of an adult. And we talk to people on the show that are 45 that don't even grasp that. And so I would implore you that your friends Rachel and George can tell you in the real world, when you go out to get a job, majority of people don't care what's on your diploma. They really don't. Some, some care that you have a four year degree. I mean, that's, I think a great thing to have, you know, So I, I think that's great. But people don't care and they don't, you know, the, the name of the school and all of that. It is a. It is not. That's usually a sign that you're going to be successful and get a job that's going to then carry you for throughout your adulthood. And going $120,000 or 105,000, I think it's a little bit. I think it's gonna end up being a little bit more than that after room and board and book everything.

[George Kamel]

What are you studying?

[Caller]

I was planning on double majoring in pastoral ministry and communications.

[Rachel Cruze]

Emma, Emma, we just talked to a worship pastor who's making 53, $58,000 a.

[George Kamel]

Year and he's been doing it a lot. That's a successful worship leader.

[Rachel Cruze]

It would take you like seven to eight years to pay this off. No, no, please, please, please, no.

[George Kamel]

What do you want to do on the other side of this? Tell me the job. Like if I could just do this job, it would be a dream Summer camp director. Okay. Love it. I love the clarity there. Here's the good news. I don't think you need a communication degree or even a pastoral studies degree to be a summer camp director. You know what? You need experience at a summer camp where you work your way into a.

[Rachel Cruze]

Direct role that you can do for free.

[George Kamel]

So this is actually great news. This gives me so much hope for you that we can avoid a crisis. Cause here's what. Let me play this out and you can go watch the Borrowed future documentary we did on the student loan crisis. I think it'll Help you understand some of what we're talking about. My fear for you is that you can never be a summer camp director because there is no summer camp director job that pays enough to cover the payments on the student loans that you end up taking out.

[Rachel Cruze]

So you're gonna have to go get a job. You're gonna have to end up being an administrative assistant or something. I mean, which is not bad. But you're not gonna get to do what you want to do in life because you're gonna have bills to pay for years, for years and years and years and years for a Christian private education that you didn't need. You don't, you don't need it now.

[George Kamel]

Would it be a great time going to the school? I think so. But is it worth 120 grand for the price to have this experience? I don't think it is at this point. Now, if you had a full ride and you were like, I just want to do this for fun, I'd go, good for you. Go for it. But I just, I got into my dream school, Emma, when I was 18, and it was 50 grand a year for four years going to a film school. And I said, I don't think I can stomach 200 grand in student loan debt to maybe be a film director one day. And I think that was the Lord saying, please don't do this, young man.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, because your future is going to.

[George Kamel]

Be bright with that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because of scripture, Emma, every time debt is mentioned, it's in a negative fashion. Now it's not a sin if you end up going, you're going to get to heaven with student loans. You're fine, right? It's not a sin. But every time it's mentioned, it is negative. It's a curse. You are a slave to the lender. It is not wise. Go read proverbs. Go read proverbs. What God has set before you. And before you make this mistake, Emma, please listen to your parents. They're giving you good wisdom and figure out how much is in that account. Cuz I think you can go to a community college even for a little bit if you need to.

[George Kamel]

Listen up, people. If your phone bill is more than 25 bucks a month, you're basically donating to keep your mobile carrier's private jets stocked with caviar. But Boost Mobile isn't playing that game. Unlimited talk, text and data for just $25 a month. No contracts. No. We're raising your rate because we feel like it. Emails, just a simple low bill every month. And because they actually Believe in what they're selling. There's a 30 day money back guarantee. So if you don't love it, get your money back. For zero risk. Go to boostmobile.com Ramsey to make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com Ramsey restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details.

[Rachel Cruze]

Up next, we have, I think it's G in Los Angeles. Is it G?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's G. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, absolutely. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Well, I did want some advice. Speaking on behalf of my father, I wanted to know what it takes to start that conversation of retirement for an him. I'm 31 years old and he's, I'm 65, 67 years old now and he's been a long haul truck driver for almost 40 years now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, it's hard work.

[Caller]

He's been working very, very hard. I think maybe three or four days out of the month. We've, I've seen him my whole entire life.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh my gosh.

[George Kamel]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

No, he's, he's worked very hard for, for what he's done. But as a long haul truck driver, a lot of it is paycheck to paycheck work. But what he's done very well for himself is live life a little bit frugally and understand what it took for him. And what he did was buy some farms in central California that have all been paid off now and stuff. And I'm just kind of looking for a way to start that conversation with him.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

Does he want to retire?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's one of the bigger caveats about this. He is a workhorse. And as a matter of fact, he just came back from New York today, all the way back to central California and he already picked up a load for Friday to take off. Wow.

[George Kamel]

Is he the kind of guy, is he like a Dave Ramsey? He's just going to work until he's no longer retire?

[Caller]

Absolutely. That is his demeanor and that's something I've never gotten in his way of. But here's the thing about long haul truck drivers. It's kind of hard on the suns because it is a huge, it's normal for a son having to get a call somewhere and fly to a different state in the US and have to find out that something happened to their.

[Rachel Cruze]

Father on the road and they, it's dangerous. Yeah.

[Caller]

And that's one of my largest fears. I mean, he's in great health. He's not, he's not the, yeah, he.

[George Kamel]

Works while you're ahead situation. And you're wanting him to just quit and retire, and he has the assets and resources to do so based on these farms that are creating income.

[Caller]

So that's kind of the confusion on my end too. I'm just trying to figure out how we can use all the work that he's done. And yet over the past 40 years, we've accumulated over 110 acres, me and him together. And there are four different properties. We have different houses on each property that also give us rental income, albeit those houses are humble homes. They're in migrant homes, and they're surrounded by farms too. So they give us a little bit of income, but we don't really rely on it. And then since he's been driving truck, we've been leasing out our farms ever since. That gets our property taxes taken care of pretty much at the end of the year and other expenses.

[George Kamel]

So if he quit today doing the truck stuff, how much income would he bring in from all these other sources?

[Caller]

So we get about $8,000 a month on.

[Rachel Cruze]

And you're saying we. Are y' all 50, 50 in this? Like you've put in 50%? He's put in 50%. Or has he put in more?

[Caller]

No, no, it's all his. But we, we do handle everything as kind of like as a family. But he's the boss at the end of day, so I myself and say he does.

[George Kamel]

Your name isn't on any of these properties?

[Caller]

No, actually I put it in. Well, he's put it in a trust since then that he's the executor of. He bought these farms under his father's name, but passed away.

[George Kamel]

Okay. So it's all under his control. And are you working outside of all this full time?

[Caller]

Correct. Yes. So I kind of moved out of it and I moved to Southern California and I'm an engineer here.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so you have your own life, your own income.

[Rachel Cruze]

So the 8,000 per month is what he would live on then if he did retire?

[Caller]

More or less. Correct.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay.

[George Kamel]

And that's enough to cover his bills. It sounds like being a frugal guy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Does he have a home? Yeah. Is he debt free? Is his home debt free? Paid off.

[Caller]

So all the homes and farms are all debt free. So he's bought all of these homes and farms at a very.

[Rachel Cruze]

What about his home, his primary home? Is it paid off?

[Caller]

Everything is paid off.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's amazing.

[Caller]

Yeah. All of the properties together come out to about 6 million in value.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, wow.

[George Kamel]

So he could retire tomorrow then. Your real question is how Do I convince him to stop working so hard?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, that's part of the. Yeah, that's part of the issue. And ask him. Yeah, and should I even ask him? Because another fear of mine is what happens to a gentleman when he does retire? They slow down.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I do wonder, too, if there's. If you guys can work and I don't know what this would look like. It probably would. Getting. Getting a third opinion, a financial advisor. But if you have $6 million worth of something, but you're only making eight grand a month, man, there. I mean, you could be making 600,000amonth or, I'm sorry, a year should be.

[George Kamel]

A better return on that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, the return is not great. And, and, and again, that I'm. I may. I'm speaking just from a numbers perspective, not like a legacy thing that you guys love the land or whatever it may be, but there may be a move that you guys sell to, you know, half of this 3 million in real estate. 3 million in the market. And here he's, you know, living off, I don't know, 300,000 a year is what he could be. He didn't need that, I'm sure. But if you just put this in.

[George Kamel]

A high Yield savings account, 3 million, it could spit off over $100,000 a year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So I just wonder if there's a way to bring more money to you guys with this investment, because it is worth so much. But again, you may. Y' all may not want to do that, but that's one thing to be.

[George Kamel]

Thinking about and maybe to diversify, you know, it's great to have real estate and farm, but you may want to have some in investments, too, too, just to hedge your bets.

[Caller]

And my first solution was, hey, like, why don't we start farming the farms again and stop leasing them out to tenant farmers that we've been doing for so long. But he's had one different, you know, business adventure a long time in the past, and he's never done that again. And ever since then, he worked to pay off these farms.

[George Kamel]

So he got burned one time, and now he's. He's got a bad taste.

[Caller]

Never, ever again. And then you did bring up a good point, too. It is a legacy thing for, you know, the son to be. To sell off the farms or something like that. It's just completely like, how would I say?

[George Kamel]

It's too sentimental.

[Caller]

Right, Right. And that's not something.

Yeah.

Especially in our culture, we don't.

[George Kamel]

What is your culture? Can I ask? What's the background here.

[Caller]

I'm a North Indian, Punjabi.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, we all. Yeah. We also have farms and property in. In India as well, but those are completely different.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, cool. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Caller]

So I would like to find a way to keep the farms. I mean, use the value and the equity that he's built up some type of way with since buying these farms and may be able to live off of that or give him some type of good, I guess, presentation of, hey, this is what it looks like and it's super secure. And this is how you would live without having.

[George Kamel]

Has he ever listened to you? And I mean that respectfully. Like, has he actually taken any of your advice and went, yeah, I'll do that.

[Caller]

Absolutely not. I actually did with one of the farms myself. A 1031 C with one farm, and I split it into two, which we. Which now consists of the two properties that are in the trust. And he didn't speak to me for maybe a year and a half, two years.

[George Kamel]

That's what I'm getting.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's what's hard.

[George Kamel]

I don't think you have. You're in a position to influence, you know, him retiring. That's just the hard facts is just like, you can do all you want to do to have a dad in your life and have him retire and be healthy. He's a grown man.

[Rachel Cruze]

And it's such a hard belief. I think it's human nature to think, okay, I'm going to go into this important conversation for this other person because you're wanting the other person to make a different decision than what they're making. And you're. And there's a. And it's a belief that I've kind of. I kind of feel like is a lie of like, if I just say it the right way, the right fast, if I present it the right way, it's gonna click and it's gonna click. And I just. I don't know, maybe I'm cynical, but I know for myself, I'm like, you just have to get to this point in life. You're like, I just. I cannot control other people. Like, I can't. And maybe I can try one great conversation, but you're not gonna change his mind. You're not. And so for your own peace of mind, gui, if you want to do this and present something to him for yourself to have peace to say, okay, at least I gave it my best shot. Shot you can for you. But you got to go into that conversation with zero expectation that he is going to change. You would have that conversation more for yourself as a 30 or one year old son than for to believe that you're somehow going to convince him. Because it's just, yeah, if he didn't want to change, if he's not curious or interested, it's not going to happen.

[George Kamel]

So here's the headline. This is the old quote. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. And that that's just he's 65. This is all he knows. He's not interested in your opinion, unfortunately.

[Rachel Cruze]

And he's done great so far. I think like you're saying, you see that there's potential that he could be doing more, but nothing's on fire here. But again, as a son, if you feel like I just have to say this for my own peace of mind, you can present him with something, but I would just continue to nurture that relationship and congratulate him on the work that he's done.

[George Kamel]

Because you're a good son, man.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely y'. All do you want to know a game changer for your grocery budget? Start your weekly shopping at Aldi. Seriously. By making Aldi your first stop, you can easily check off your family favorite. From fresh organic produce to grass fed ground beef, marinated ready to cook chicken breasts and high quality dairy products, you'll be able to make incredible meals while keeping your budget on track. So no overpriced gimmicks or membership fees here. Now real families like yours are saving up to $4,000 a year just by making Aldi their go to grocery store every week, find a store near you@aldi us. That's a L D. I usually savings.

[George Kamel]

Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

[Rachel Cruze]

When it comes to wills, George, especially online wills, there's a lot of questions around this. One question that we get all the time is how do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will? So usually if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, an online will will be a great option for you. Another question we get is what do I need to do to start my online will and when you're going to do it. You're going to have to figure out some questions and answer some for yourself. Like who's going to get my stuff when I pass? Who's going to take care of my children if they're minors? Who do you want making decisions for you if you're incapacitated? Also we get the question, is an online will legally valid? And yes, it is, but you have to make sure it's valid in your state. So a lot of wills are state specific. So make sure that's the key for you. And then lastly is why would I want an online will versus a traditional one made by a lawyer? So they're usually more convenient, they're less expensive. It takes less time to set up. And so again, if you. If everything that you have is worth less than a million dollars, an online will is a great place to go. And if you want to know more about this in your specific situation, you can go to ramseysolutions.com wills and you can take a quiz online to find out which will is best for you. Up next, we have Sarah in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi.

[Rachel Cruze]

Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So my husband and I were both physicians and surgical specialties. He's an only child. He has immigrant parents, and apparently he had promised them when he was young to support them once he graduates. And they bought a $1.2 million home a couple months ago, and they've been guilting him into fully paying their mortgage and expecting more money sooner.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

So this was like carte blanche, blank check, Richie Rich. We're gonna do whatever we want, and you're gonna fund it. Was that the agreement when he was 4 years old?

[Caller]

So when he was young, he's like, He's 12.

[Rachel Cruze]

He's like, I'll take care of you, like, good.

[Caller]

Exactly. You guys brought me here and, you know, I want to give back to you. But as he got older, he realized, like, you know, life costs money and he doesn't want to give it all away. But they called after and they're like, well, you promised, you know, you better give us this money. And so he did you and obviously feels horrible about the way it went down. He wanted to gift it, not feel forced into it. And I just think, like, financially, this doesn't make sense for us. We have three young kids. We live in a 1500 square feet, $300,000 home. So we're living very modestly. They drive luxury cars. His mother has never held a job in her life, so she's been a stay at home wife for the last 18 years. And I just, I feel like we're being blackmailed by his parents. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Did you say they're immigrants? They came in.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Where are they from originally?

[Caller]

They're from Korea.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay.

[George Kamel]

And there's just an expectation that, hey, we, we raised you we gave you this great life and now the tables are turning. You take care of us.

[Rachel Cruze]

Are they in a place at all, Sarah, to. To live this lifestyle themselves? Have they saved and you know, have they been successful?

[Caller]

No. So his father's been in and out of jobs, but I think they do relatively well. I mean, they've been able to fund, you know, luxury cars until now. We don't have information about their finances. And my thoughts are, if we're going to be funding you, I'd like to know what's going on with your finances. If I'm expected to take all of those on once you. Once his dad retires in a year or two.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I mean, for sure this is causing.

[George Kamel]

A rift in your own marriage because you're clearly getting resentful of your own husband. Husband for, you know, letting this all happen and you not having a say in what happens with Yalls money.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Kamel]

So you talk to him about like, hey, we need to put a stop to this. You need to talk to your parents. Yeah. We need to have boundaries around this.

[Caller]

Yeah. The main issue is that he made this decision and gave them the money before talking to me. So he's just been sending it out.

[George Kamel]

How much money, like, are we talking here?

[Caller]

So he's sending them $6,000 a month and his plan is to eventually give them 12,000amonth. A month.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much do you guys make a month?

[Caller]

Like, like out of like what comes into.

[George Kamel]

What's your take home pay?

[Caller]

Yeah, our take home pay monthly is like 46.

[George Kamel]

Okay. And so he's giving, you know, 13% parent tax every month.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

To support.

[Caller]

But we have, we both have. We both come from like.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, 46amonth is what you're making.

[Caller]

Making 46,000amonth.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

He's a neurosurgeon, so he makes a decent salary. But we both have incredibly high med school debt.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much do you have left in debt?

[Caller]

We have all of it. We're hoping for the 10 year repayment, but who knows. So we each are like about 33, 40 each.

[Rachel Cruze]

So 340 each.

[Caller]

Yes. Because his parents didn't help him. I come from very simple means. My parents are, you know, don't have a lot of money at all, which is another kind of sore point. Why are we giving your parents, who live a decent life all this money? And my parents are living like, you know, paycheck to paycheck and have never requested a penny, you know, and we haven't given them.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I've supported us for the Last three years as an attending physician while he finished training. And we used all of my money to pay all of our bills, to, you know, fund our lifestyle, to even gift money away. I haven't been able to gift my parents any money that love to, but now we're handing out, you know, well.

[George Kamel]

The, the main issue here is you guys are not united on your financial goals, even the values of the family. And he's been doing things behind your back. So there's first a marriage issue and then once we deal with that, we can then deal with, he can deal with the parents. But you getting in the middle of talking to the in laws, I don't think that's going to work out. Right. And so he needs to have a hard conversation probably over a long period of time. I don't know if it's going to happen overnight that he just cuts the off. But I think there needs to be like a, hey, we can't do this. We have our own debts to pay. We have our own kids we're trying to raise. We don't want to put this on our kids to have to fund our life because we're broke, because we gave it all to you guys and we're going to need to do this for a season.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sarah. Yeah. You and your husband, you guys really need to sit down and paint a picture of what you want your life to look like in the next five to 10 years. You know, you guys want to be, I'm sure, get the student loans paid off. You want, you know, that's a goal that you're gonna have. You, you want a goal to, I don't know, pay off the house. Like, I don't know, like you, you're a nuclear family for our kids. You and your husband very tactically need to start creating some goals of what you're shooting for because you're making obviously an incredible income. So you don't want it just to like disappear, you know.

[Caller]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Whether it's going to the in laws or not. And you want it to go as far as possible because there is major, major things that you can do in your life with this income. And one of those could be, I'm just saying, with an astro, could be giving, you know, being generous and giving some away to whoever. Fill in the blank. Right. But, but you don't even know where the money's going, what's happening because you and your husband are not united. And so you guys need to unite as a household. This is what we're doing with money. And in that conversation is again, which I'm sure you have expressed to him your disdain and how pissed you are that all of this is happening. And it makes no sense, it's not logical, it's unfair to take a 23 year old son's word and hold it over his head for the rest of his life and their life. Like, none of this is logical. So let's just say it out loud and we need to get on the same page. And then from there as a united front, then that's when he needs to go and talk to his parents. But I, I think that's the second issue. I think the first issue is you guys are just fractured all over the place, you know?

[Caller]

Well, we did have a very intense, like, serious conversation. And his take was, well, we'll just give your parents money too. So I think, I guess it's. Our goals are not aligned. Like, he's not looking to save big, he's looking to give out all of our money.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And that's. Yeah. And that's not okay with you. And you're part of the household, so your voice is just as important as his. So how is he just giving them money? Does he have a checking account that his money goes into to.

[Caller]

We put half of our money, half of our paychecks go into our joint account and half of it is in our own personal y. So he was just sending it directly from.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right. So that's a breakdown. Do you know what I'm saying? Everything needs to go into one account. Y' all need to close your separate accounts. You guys need one account that you're functioning out of so that you are a united front. And this is the fracture that happens when couples, you know, start to separate finances because it's quote, unquote, his money is what he believes and he's emotionally believing that because emotionally it is his money. It's in a different account. Your name's not on. And so what that does, it starts to break down the relationship. And that's what we're seeing right now. And so that probably will make him feel very uncomfortable, that piece of advice, to be united. But I think it's a deeper goal for your marriage. Do you know what I mean? Like, the health of that is really important. And then out of the health of the marriage, we can make these big decisions that are going to create conflict with family. But at least we're doing it united.

[George Kamel]

Let the money goals be the villain instead of you and say, hey, we have big money goals. We're trying to achieve we got to pay off all this debt. We're not going to wait 10 years. We're going to do 18 months. Well now all of a sudden you don't have the money to give them, do you?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Cuz it's all going to Student Lo.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Rachel Cruze]

Of the day is brought to you by why Refi? If your private student loans are in default and you feel stuck, you are not out of options. Why Refi specializes in helping borrowers like you find real solutions with low fixed rate refinancing. Just go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not available in all states.

[George Kamel]

Today's question comes from Hayden in California. I'm getting married soon and my relatives who can't attend the wedding have asked for my Venmo info to send a monetary wedding present. I know that these relatives are in a lot of debt and I've tried to encourage them to work the baby steps. Is it appropriate to accept a gift from someone who is deep in student loan and other debt or should I decline the gift? It feels wrong to allow someone to send money when I know they can't afford to come to the wedding. Wedding. And it also feels wrong to take money from someone who doesn't have financial peace. What should I do?

[Rachel Cruze]

My gosh, what a pure heart.

[George Kamel]

So innocent. My answer is simple. You take the money because it's none of your business. It's just you don't block a blessing someone wants to give. It's more shaming. It's so shaming to be like, I can't accept this gift because you are so broke.

[Rachel Cruze]

You are so broke.

[George Kamel]

You should be embarrassed you even thought just it's up to them.

[Rachel Cruze]

I agree. I know. I think you just smile and say thank you and yeah, you take it. I mean, I mean I have people.

[George Kamel]

In my life who are overly generous. Who I'm like, they need financial help. Why are they being generous? And I learned to just let go cause it was me drinking a poison. They're joyful, they're having a great time. Let them figure it out. And if they need help, I'm here for them.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, they know that that's good.

[George Kamel]

But that's I think a sign of growth and maturity when you learn to not feel like you need to intervene.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. And I think a level of like a lot of gratitude is beautiful too. Cause when people give a gift, gift and. Or if you give a gift right. And it's a really nice one and someone's like no, no, no. It's too much. You're like, no, but I, I want, I, I chose to do this so, like, I'd be more excited if the reaction was like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. Thank you so much. So just be grateful and like George says, none of your business.

[George Kamel]

And I don't like looking back at my wedding gifts. I don't know the financial situation of everybody who attended and what they spent and could they afford it and did they put it on a credit card to go on the flight to come to the wedding?

[Rachel Cruze]

Totally, totally.

[George Kamel]

I don't know. That's only God knows.

[Rachel Cruze]

Only God knows.

[George Kamel]

God knows the heart.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's a good question, though. Next we have Brianna in Grand Rapids. Hi, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to finally get through.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, we're glad you called. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Okay, so I am a newly single mom. I'm planning to buy a salon business that's in a leased space that currently has six booth renters. I have the cash to buy it outright, but I'm wondering if I should use my savings or finance part of it to keep some cash on hand.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Financially, where are you at? How much debt do you have? Consumer debt?

[Caller]

I have about 12,000 in student loans.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I am leasing a car, which I kind of got put into that. But yeah, about it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And how much is in savings?

[Caller]

I have about 160.

[Rachel Cruze]

160,000 in savings. And how much is the business going to be worth? Or how much, how much would you buy it for?

[Caller]

We agreed to 50k.

[Rachel Cruze]

50,000?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

What exactly do you own for the 50,000?

[Caller]

Thousand. I'm sorry, what was that?

[George Kamel]

What is the 50,000 get you?

[Caller]

Okay, so we're. Because it's a booth rent salon. That is the current revenue that she's making off of the booth renters in retail.

[George Kamel]

Is that per year? Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So it's costing you one year of, of leases to buy the business?

[Caller]

Yes, that is what we agreed on.

[George Kamel]

That seems reasonable.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Does it seem too good to be true? Is there something you feel like is not there, she's not telling you?

[Caller]

No, no, I feel really great about it. I'm very fortunate and I do work in the business, you know, it's been established for about six years. It's in a great location. Again, I have a great reputation. Reputation relationship with the other renters, so.

[Rachel Cruze]

And will you be in charge?

[Caller]

And exactly what I need.

[Rachel Cruze]

And if one renter decides to leave, are you in charge? Of filling that spot.

[Caller]

Yes. Everything would be on my hands as like they all decide to turn around and leave. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Do you feel competent to do that? Like do you know this world and you have connections? You could probably figure out how to find somebody to lease out that remaining booth if someone were to leave?

[Caller]

I do, yeah. I feel really good about it overall. I think what really is getting me a little scared is the financial piece of it. Right. I have the money in my savings. I've just been saving. Saving. I wanted to buy a house this year, but sadly on my income as a self employed person, it's a lot harder than I thought because I wasn't showing a lot of my income. So I am renting. Obviously I would love to buy a home one day. I'm hoping to do so with adding income, you know, this salon business income into my income. But yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much would you make if you did take this on? How much would you make in what you're doing now plus owning it? How much would you bring in a year?

[Caller]

I would say close to 100k.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so you make 50 on your own, you get 50 from the leases, you're up to a six figure salary salary and then you can one year in, you'll get your money back essentially if everything goes perfectly right. So year two, it's pure.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sounds amazing. And I honestly thought that you were gonna say I have 160,000 in savings and it's gonna cost 160,000. And I was gonna give you a different answer. But the fact that it's 50,000, you'll still have 110,000. And then when you pay off your student loans, which I want you to do, you'll have $98,000 in savings. I would take part of that 98 and get a. I would get a six month emergency fund. As a single mom and you're starting this new business. I would put six months of expenses aside in a totally separate high yield savings account. You can open up one with like fair ones credit union. They're amazing. But I would just put it in a totally different spot. And then whatever you have remaining, I personally would start working to use that for my down payment that maybe I'm going to have in the next two to three years.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

And the other thing, the other piece of the puzzle is this leased car. You may want to look at the buyout amount and if it's, you know, if it's way less than half your income and you love the car, I would just buy it out outright and not deal with this lease anymore.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

It's gonna, you know, stop the bleeding as soon as possible to get out of that lease versus hanging on to it until it's done and then owning nothing at the end of it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And can I just say, well done. Done.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

To have 160,000 just saved up on the side, I mean, seriously incredible. You're a hard worker. You know what you're doing. I think this. It sounds, from what you've presented to us, like a great opportunity. And it makes sense. You have the money. It's not wiping out your savings or anything. The risk feels low.

[George Kamel]

You're not riding on the edge all of a sudden. You still got some cushion there.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, it sounds good. So that's so great. All right, real quick, let's go to Mason in Colorado, Colorado Springs. Hey, Mason, get right to your question.

[Caller]

All right. Hey, guys. So, Michael, question is. So I'm going through a divorce right now. About. No, it's. It's actually where it's probably the best divorce you could. We're still, like, really good friends. We talk all the time. It's just. It didn't work out. Okay, so I got about 15,000 in debt from the divorce, and then I have $10,000 of my own or like 9,000. So 5,000 of that is in student loans, and sadly, the other 4,000 is in collections. So my question is going to be, what do I start paying off first? Do I start paying off the collections, then the student, or pay off my ex? Like, I'm trying to figure out what to start with for the baby step.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Did you say. So you said 5,000 in student loans, 4,000 in collections. And how much was for the divorce? 15.

[Caller]

15,000.

Okay.

[George Kamel]

What's the agreement for the divorce as far as this payout? Is it like payment per month? Is it a whole amount you need to have at the, you know, when the divorce is over, Finalized?

[Caller]

Just per month? Just per month. Like I said, it's a really. I guess you want to call it clean divorce is really good.

[George Kamel]

So is it like a thousand per month for 15 months? What was the agreement?

[Caller]

It's. It's. It's about 987 is the total. Total per month. That's just minimums that I have to pay her until it's paid off. But we. It. We have agreed that if I pay off my portion first, that's totally fine, too.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Mason, what's in the collections? Is it credit cards?

[Caller]

Yeah, two credit cards.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then, like.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, what I would do is I would call the collections agency or you know, they're in, you can probably talk them down. 4000. I bet you could get pennies on the dollar for it.

[George Kamel]

Maybe a thousand bucks or 1500 to settle in full.

[Rachel Cruze]

Settle it, get it in writing, get it settled. Yep. And I would just work down the, I would work down the debt snowball. So I would do the collections, I would do the student loans. And then that thousand dollars a month be paying that. Stay current on it. And then when you get to that 15,000, put as much as you can to get out of that divorce debt as fast as possible.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start, answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money. Starting tonight. Go with ramseysolutions.com start.

[Rachel Cruze]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this next hour with George Camel, my co host on smart Money Happy hour. And we're taking Your calls at 880-8825-5225. Next we have Jackie in Cincinnati. Hi, Jackie. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I'm in a situation where my husband is threatening to remove me from all the accounts, the credit cards and threaten to leave me with zero. He's been pretty verbally, emotionally and financially abusive and then last night crossed over into physical abus arrested. But I'm wondering, my question is how to protect myself. He's a finance guy and he's really interested in laughing his way of knowledge against my ignorance and taking full advantage and putting me in a place of what he says I'll need to go prostitute myself in order to have money, which is terribly selective. I'm just wondering what to do from here or.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. So are you safe right now?

[Caller]

I am safe right now. He just walked in from jail, so I'm sitting in my car. But he is the sole breadwinner right now. We are. Our kids are now in college. I'm going to be heading back to work. But right now he's a sole breadwinner.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And you'll be lawyering up, I'm assuming. I mean, divorce is happening.

[Caller]

I, I know it sounds terribly foolish, but I don't I told him, I don't want a broken home. I don't want broken home hearts. I don't want a separate house, splitting belongings. I don't want to miss any time with my kids.

[George Kamel]

But, Jackie, he has opted out of this marriage in every way, shape and form.

[Rachel Cruze]

Jackie, you're not. Yeah. This is. This is not a marriage anymore.

[Caller]

Correct. Correct. Agreed.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And your kids are. They're. They are in college. And their mom is going to make a really brave, hard decision, but she's gonna make a decision that is best for her. I mean, Jackie, this is horrible.

[Caller]

It's terrible. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

If you lose love, respect, communication, trust, you don't have a marriage. Safety.

[Rachel Cruze]

Safety, Jackie.

[George Kamel]

Provision and protection. I don't even know. He just walked in from jail into the house that you both still live in.

[Caller]

Literally, when you guys picked up to take my call, he walked in and I had to run outside.

[George Kamel]

Can you drive away? Like, I wouldn't be in the same vicinity as this guy. I would go to a friend's house, a family member.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you have good friends and family around? Around?

[Caller]

No. No. That's another thing. I think he's shook it up because I've never taken action before, but when he shoved me last night into a door, I had no. That was the time. The first time that he took it to physical. And I can't live with myself. If I knew. If my kids were ever in that situation, I had to do it. I could not live with myself.

[George Kamel]

There's one thing we know about abusers. They don't have a change of heart. They're just going to continue it if you let it happen. And so the fact that you're still there really scares me right now.

[Caller]

Well, I had. I. It was my choice to say he can come out and work because he's the only one with a job. So he's under. You know, he has rules to not harass and things like that, so.

[George Kamel]

Well, the rules don't matter if he controls all the purse strings and you get $0.

[Caller]

Yeah, Jackie, that's what I'm worried about. That's what I'm worried about.

[Rachel Cruze]

Your name on the account.

[George Kamel]

Accounts.

[Caller]

My name is on the accounts. So for the credit card, it's. I. I'm an authorized user, but he's the full.

[Rachel Cruze]

Your checking account where his income comes in. Are you on that account?

[Caller]

Is joint correct?

[Rachel Cruze]

Perfect. Okay. If. If I were in your shoes, Jackie, I would take. I would be in that car. And when you get off the phone with us, I would Drive to the bank and I would create a new checking account. Account. And I would take half of the money that is in that joint checking account and I would put it over to your. To your own checking account that he has zero access to. And I would have it. I would have an amount of money and then I would drive to a hotel and I would get a room for the night. And until, you know, I can get with friends and family, I mean, I. I don't see how it's never going to go back to normal. And so what you've been living in again, it, sadly, I feel like, is what we hear from a lot of victims of domestic violence is that you become almost used to it. And when you're sitting here telling us two strangers, I mean, George and I, our mouths were just dropped open because of just the insane situation that you're in. And I don't feel like you. I don't feel like you see it. And you deserve better than this, Jackie.

[Caller]

Oh, I know that. It's, it's. I just don't want to break my kids hearts, Jackie.

[Rachel Cruze]

Staying with a dangerous man. Man is breaking their hearts and they.

[Caller]

Don'T know any of it.

So.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, Jackie, I mean, they. Would you want this for your daughter? What would you tell your daughter right now?

[Caller]

Never.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

That was my question.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

That set him off. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. So Jackie, answer your own question.

[George Kamel]

I think you're someone's sharper than you think. I think they're catching a lot of what's going on and they're taking a lot of cues. And right now you have an opportunity to show them the kind of person you are.

[Rachel Cruze]

And we do not promote divorce. That is something that, I mean, it has to be to a point where there is. There is of no return. And everything you've just said in this call, is that for me? 100%. 100%.

[George Kamel]

Would you be okay if your daughter was staying in a relationship this abusive? Would you tell her to.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, that's why we're saying yes. Yes. So you wouldn't do it, that you wouldn't want this for your daughter. I don't want you to. I don't want you to want this for yourself. But you're right. The financials, this is where we always say that we always are about combining finances. But the red flag goes up with a couple of different things. If there's abuse, which check that off for your list, you know, if there's, if there's addiction that's not being addressed. If there's things that you need to protect yourself. You need a separate account.

[George Kamel]

Financial infidelity, and that's. You can't control his spending. What if he racks up a bunch of debt and your name is tied to that credit card?

[Caller]

Well, this is my second question, is he opened a separate bank account last year because his mother sends him thousands of dollars that he can gamble and buy, you know, alcohol, drugs, and all that. And he plays with that money, and I can't access that. He could easily move the money.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's what I'm saying, Jackie.

[George Kamel]

You need to create your own financial account. You need to get off the phone.

[Rachel Cruze]

Get off the phone with us. And you need to drive to the.

[George Kamel]

Bank, remove your name from any account that you're on as tied to him. Freeze all of your credit with all three credit bureaus. You can call them up and have them freeze or go online and do it, and then create your own checking and savings accounts that you have full control over.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

And I would honestly, I would pack up my stuff, and I would not be back in that house, and I would be contacting an attorney for next steps.

[Caller]

That's another thing. I don't even know where to begin. And he thinks it's the funniest thing, that he's just gonna. He's just gonna ruin me. And he thinks it's funny because he's in finance.

[Rachel Cruze]

And he thinks it's funny because he's an absolute.

[George Kamel]

And he knows that you're gonna be a doormat, and he knows you're gonna come back and you're gonna say, well, I don't want a broken home. He knows that he's holding all the cars, parts. And so you need to show him that you mean business. Like you did yesterday when he went to jail for the night.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Kamel]

And I think when he realizes, oh, she's not coming back. Oh, she created her own accounts. Oh, she took half the money. This is more serious than I thought. I don't think he's going to be laughing then when the courts demand that he pay alimony or child support, whatever it may be.

[Caller]

Yeah. Our kids are adults, though. Well, I guess it would be alimony. I don't know.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

No, I. Yeah. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

There's laws that protect you here.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely.

[George Kamel]

And you're not a bad person for taking advantage.

[Rachel Cruze]

And especially because there's a police report that's been filed. I mean, there. You have a lot of weight right now for you to use in your favor, Jackie. And we. We implore you to do that. I mean, for for your own safety. Jackie, please.

[George Kamel]

I'd have a restraining order against this guy, let alone letting him walk back.

[Rachel Cruze]

Into my house after he's a manipulator, an abuser. It's every. It's everybody. Every red flag you could imagine, Jackie. And so just hear that from two strangers that this is. It's so clear to us. And my fear is that it's not clear to you. If you can. If wherever you are, Jackie, join a local church.

[George Kamel]

Get a community around you who's willing to support you. You need people in your corner right now.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Call us back if you need anything.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramseysolutions.com smartvestor to get connected.

[George Kamel]

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor.

[Rachel Cruze]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's really hard to know what's actually happening in the housing market. And so we are here to help you with the latest trend so that you can easily understand what is happening. So medium home prices have dipped a little bit last month to about $426,000 and a typical season shift as we fall, as we head into fall and buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition. So if you are in the buying market, you're in the. You're in the green light. So mortgage rates have also dropped slightly to 5.5% in September, giving some buyers some breathing room. And since rates are unpredictable, the the best time is when you are financially ready to buy a home, not just when rates drop. So obviously it's in your favor when that happens. But if you are ready to buy a home, go ahead and get into the market. To learn more about the housing marketing, housing market trends, and to get free tools to help you when you're buying or selling your home and you need some confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube. YouTube. All right, let's go to Brian in Syracuse, New York. Hi, Brian. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, good afternoon. So, hey, exactly a month ago, I turned 40 and decided it was time to stop making excuses and create a will. So I hopped on Mama Bear, legal forms, knocked it out. Good to go.

[Rachel Cruze]

Great.

[Caller]

As I'm reviewing it, I feel like there are some gaps and I guess what I would want my plan to be. So my question is, is there some sort of supplemental document or something where I can really spell it out like A to Z? And then how do I have an age appropriate conversation with my kids? I have a teen and a preteen. I can't imagine anything that's going to happen anytime soon. But how do I begin to have those conversations? So when it does happen, you know, there's no surprises and it's just pretty straightforward. And we're good.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, no, those are some great questions. Well, I think from the relational standpoint, you know, I think having a age appropriate conversation with them is a great idea, especially if they're old enough to kind of understand how life works. And preteen and teen, you know, they're. I feel like they're always smarter than we give them credit for what they can and what they can handle too. So, yeah, I do think it could be a good discussion. I mean, I feel like my parents did that. I don't remember, like a formal sit down, but it sounds morbid, but I think we always knew who we were going to go to if something happened to mom and dad. Like, I think that was always kind of a known thing. And weirdly, I feel like it kind of gives you a little bit of security as a kid that I don't know because it's usually obviously people that you love. It was our aunt and uncle for us. And so I think, you know, talking to them and again, you're sharing it, you're not trying to scare them. And just to say, you know, mom and dad have been doing some planning and we want to bring you guys in just so that you're aware. And if you have any more questions, like, we are here to answer. And that's one thing I've learned with kids is you can give them, you know, some information and if they're ready for more, they'll ask more questions and you can be there to be truthful and answer them. But yeah, that's probably what I would do is just sit them down and just say, hey, we just want you Guys to know that, you know, we've been doing some planning and as parents, we love you guys and love our family and we want to protect as much as we can if anything bad ever happens. And nothing probably bad is going to happen, but if it did, we did just want to let you guys know, you know, maybe who they're going, you know, who they would go to or whatnot. I don't know, that may sound kind of too blunt, but I mean, they.

[George Kamel]

Do all kinds of drills in schools to prepare in case something should happen. And so I think it's a good analogy to go, listen, we do the same for our life, for what would happen if something were to happen to us. Here's what would go on. And so what's the extent of the discussion you're wanting to have with them?

[Caller]

It's just, you know, I'm thinking I won't need this for another 50 years anyway. You know, I certainly hope. But it's just so. It's just. Just me and my brother is the executor. And, you know, it's, it's. Honestly, it's a big thing. Like my house, you know, it would go to them, but they're 12 and 14. What in the world are they going to do with a house?

[George Kamel]

Oh, sure. Well, it would be held by the executor until it's time. And once they're adults, then they would have access to those assets. And so, you know, there are situations as you get older and as you build more wealth, you can then move into a trust where you can get a little more fancy and complex. But a will can do a whole lot. I mean, you can add a whole lot of clauses in there. Just a detail. You add as much detail as you want.

[Caller]

Yeah. So maybe I need to go back through because I can edit for still quite a while.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And add some more detail. Yeah, that's really the biggest thing. I don't think my net worth is high enough where a trust makes sense right now. But at the same time, I don't know that I would want to hand them the keys, you know, when they're 14 and 16. I mean, hopefully they're in their 16.

[George Kamel]

And legally they wouldn't just like get a house.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, they wouldn't get it until 18 or unless specified otherwise.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So that would be something to think through, you know, if. Yeah. Whether it is a home or any cash available when you would want that to be available to them. Right. At what age would you want it specified for college? I mean, if you have college funds. Yeah. Like what? All of that as. As. As detailed as possible, I think, is a gift to those. If the will ever has to be. Be activated, that you're able to. To.

[Caller]

Well, that's what I'm looking for. Yeah. I think maybe I need to go back through and I could add some more detail.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And then I guess at what level, like, how granular should the discussion be with the executor, who'd be. My brother. I trust him. He's great. The idea is I want it all in a document, so if something were to happen, there's just no questions. It's just there in ink, and then he can just execute on it. You know, it's not that I expect anything to be dramatic, but just so it's nice and clean, easy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Well, from a legal perspect, can put as much in the will as possible, and then. And then this would not be necessarily as legal, but for him specifically, just as a level of communication. I mean, you could create a Word document. Do you know what I'm saying? And be like, here, the will's gonna take care of the legal side, but here are, like, my wishes, like, more specifically, directionally, if you don't want to put all that detail into the will, but the will can. Should be able to cover, from a legal perspective, exactly where you want things to go in custody of the kids and all of that. But. Yeah, but for the.

[George Kamel]

For your brother, he'll manage the assets until they're adults. And so that's just part of it. And you can specify that in there.

[Caller]

Great. Cool. So looks like I should go back and just do some more detail work, have that conversation with them, and. Should be good.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, for sure. And I think it's always a good idea to loop the person in who is going to be helping.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. No surprises. We're like, I put their name in there, but I didn't want to tell them.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Uncle Cody's now getting two kids, and he's like, wait, what?

[George Kamel]

You want to make sure they actually are willing and able and agree to it? That's. That's part of it for sure. But you're doing the right thing, Brian. I'm really proud of you, man.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. All right, let's go to Jada in Atlanta. Hi. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi, Rachel. Hi, George.

[Rachel Cruze]

Hello. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So I was wondering if I should pause the baby step and save up some money for, like, a new car and some other things. Just some background. I'm recently divorced And I have a 2 year old, so I don't have a lot of time to do like side hustles. I do try to do like Uber eats and doordash, but there's about so much I can do. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much do you make, Jada, from your job?

[Caller]

I make about 55k a year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And how much debt do you have?

[Caller]

I have about 47,000 in debt.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. What are the. What are Those debts?

[Caller]

About 3,000 is for medical bills. About 3,500 on a credit card. I have $1,000 left on my transmission that I have to pay off because my car broke down a couple months ago. And then the rest is student loans. About 35,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

35,000. Okay, perfect. When you're doing your budget month to month, do you have any margin at all? Like a couple hundred bucks, even, like two. $200. Okay. And any savings? No, no savings.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

And how's your car doing right now?

[Caller]

It's okay. It's definitely not in the best condition and it makes me want to get something else because I end up having to do like an oil change change every two to two and a half months because it burns so much oil.

[George Kamel]

So could you make this work for another six months or so and save up and get a different car because it. I'd be okay with you pausing the steps to get you reliable transportation from A to B?

[Caller]

I think I could. I'm hoping I can, honestly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I'm not sure, but I hope so.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Well, if it's pausing for a short period of time to see what if you can sell your car and save up maybe another extra thousand or so, put it with it, that's great. But, but as long, I mean, if you can put that money towards at least $1,000 savings, emergency savings, I think is the number one goal before you go and try to replace the car. So I try to get that thousand dollars asap.

[Caller]

Hey, what's up, guys?

[George Kamel]

It's Jade. You know that moment when you check.

[Rachel Cruze]

Your bank account and think, wait a.

[Caller]

Minute, how is my paycheck gone already? Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Not cool. You work way too hard to feel broke like that.

[Caller]

And the truth is you deserve better.

[Rachel Cruze]

Than just not feeling broke.

[George Kamel]

You need more margin, more breathing room.

[Caller]

And that's what our every dollar budget.

[George Kamel]

App helps you find find.

[Caller]

Most people free up an average of $3,015 in just the first 15 minutes in the app.

[George Kamel]

Just imagine how much you could find to pay off debt.

[Caller]

Stack savings and just breathe easier.

[George Kamel]

With that money stress gone, things might Seem tight.

[Rachel Cruze]

I get it.

[Caller]

But I promise you, you've got way.

[Rachel Cruze]

More margin than you think.

[Caller]

And with every dollar, you'll find it. Download it for free today in the.

[George Kamel]

App Store or Google Play today. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell here with Rachel Cruz, and we've got a special guest on the Debt Free stage, it's Carrie. How you doing, Carrie?

[Caller]

Doing good.

[George Kamel]

So a little birdie told me that you work for U Haul and they are Smart Dollar users. So if you don't know, Smart Dollar is our financial wellness product that we created for organizations for HR to have this as a benefit to their employees to help them get financial peace and take control of their money. And you have gone through that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Fantastic. Well, grateful you've joined us today.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Where do you live?

[Caller]

Phoenix, Arizona.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so great. And how much debt have you paid off?

[Caller]

33,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Amazing. What did that consist of?

[Caller]

That was 25,000 in a HELOC and about 8,000 in credit credit cards.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, incredible. Well, I know some of your co workers are probably listening to this call, so we're not going to ask your income just to like, let that happen.

[George Kamel]

Don't make it weird in the break room.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, but how long did it take?

[Caller]

Yeah, it took me 18 months.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, wow. Fast year and a half. Done.

[George Kamel]

Knocked it out.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good for you, Carrie.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

That's awesome.

[George Kamel]

So what got you started on this journey?

[Caller]

So I had credit cards and that's what I used to. To pay for anything that I couldn't pay with my paychecks. So I was paycheck to paycheck and living beyond my means. And it was credit card after credit card and that one would get maxed out, I'd get another one. And there was a day where I specifically remember I was in my home gym and I had my third credit card. It was maxed out. I thought, oh, I'm just going to call them up, call them and I'll get that increased. And they said, I'm sorry, your debt to income ratio, you don't qualify for income anymore.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Wow.

[Caller]

And that was just the moment, like, something has to be done.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. When even the lenders were like, yeah, we're not gonna let you borrow any more money. You know, you're deep in it. Wow. And that's when you had this. This moment of, I gotta do something different.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And then how'd you get connected to us? Was it through SmartDoll originally or have you heard about us before then?

[Caller]

Yeah. My son was using the app and doing the Program on his own. And I thought, I think I've heard about that. I think I've seen something about that at work. So I'm gonna check inside, see? And I looked more into it, and they're like, yeah, it's completely free. We give you this. You get the Every Dollar app, which has been totally a lifesaver to see. I'm a numbers person, so I want to see where am I, where I'm spending too much and where I could maybe save some.

[George Kamel]

And that's awesome. What's your role at U Haul? What do you do over there?

[Caller]

I am in sales.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I work from home. Yeah, I'm in home sales.

[George Kamel]

Nice.

[Caller]

Almost 15, so great.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so when you start. So when you started it 18 months ago, was it hard to kind of get on board? Like, was it hard to change the way you used to handle money and now you're doing something totally new, or were you at a point of, like, desperation where you're thinking, I will do anything. I will do anything to get out of this?

[Caller]

Well, it was a little of both because it was a necessity. I mean, if I was going to not lose my house and not lose my. My stuff, I had to make the changes, you know, it was a necessity. But it was hard. Of course it was hard. You know, I was used to living a certain way, and if I wanted to go to dinner, I just put it on credit card and I worry about that later, you know, and if I wanted to, you know, go out and get something, it wasn't a second thought.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, yeah, that's for future carries problems.

[Caller]

It came quicker than I thought.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So during the time. Okay, so the hardest part was probably saying no to yourself of what you're used to.

[Caller]

Changing the habits.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Were there people cheering you on during the process?

[Caller]

My parents, for sure.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. So great. Is this them right there?

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so if you're watching out on YouTube, they're here in the lobby. So, so great. So wonderful.

[Caller]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

What was one of the hardest things that you had to make a tweak to or cut out completely from the budget that you sort of used as fuel of like, one day I'm gonna have this back in my life, but right now it's gotta go in the name of freedom.

[Caller]

I think it was mostly eating out. We used to do that a lot. That was kind of our thing. Like, you know, that was our release. You know, you've had a stressful week or something, you're gonna go out, and I don't want to cook. I want to, you know, take it easy. And then, you know, I would just do that and just be, like, not think about it. It's just, you know, what we would do for fun, that was kind of our fun. So it was meal planning and cooking and going to the grocery store and all those things that aren't so fun, but, you know, it's so worth it in the end.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Did you see a big change? Because we always tell people to cut out to eat because of how much it eats into your income. Did you see that difference grocery shopping and cooking versus eating out?

[Caller]

Oh, for sure. So much different because I didn't do a budget before. It was like, if I had the money, I would do it, and if not, I put it on credit. And, yeah, actually, looking at how much money I was spending on eating out was. It was sickening.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. I think everyone feels that way. Yes.

[George Kamel]

Most people just never look. They just would rather not look.

[Caller]

They don't want to know.

[George Kamel]

Once you do the math, you can't unsee it. And then you go grocery shopping and cook at home, and you're like, oh, my gosh, I saved $500 this month just by being intentional.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's a way to go. Yes. Were there people making fun of you at all? Like, some of your friends or anything? Or was everyone a happy hour?

[George Kamel]

Come on.

[Rachel Cruze]

Or was everyone cheering you on and they're like, good to you, Carrie.

[Caller]

And a lot of people didn't know that I was doing that because it was very private with my money. A lot of people didn't know I was in debt to begin with. You know, not even my family knew.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Caller]

So it wasn't something, you know, you go like. And I don't think a lot of people tell you how much credit card debt they have, you know?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep.

[George Kamel]

And what was the HELOC about? At what point did you take that on and what did you use it for?

[Caller]

That was the worst decision I've probably ever made. They make it seem like, oh, you're gonna save this money. I remember them saying, you'll save $600 for a month by combining your debt and putting that together.

[George Kamel]

Oh, you rolled your debts into a heloc?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

That was what we did, like, a consolidation.

[Caller]

We did a little bit of remodeling for our house. We did redid the bathroom, but, yeah, we paid off a car. We put the credit card debt on there.

[George Kamel]

You just moved the debt around and you felt better about your life.

[Caller]

Yeah, because I was saving money, you know, I was saving money by convincing you.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, they, they had a great sales pitch and you're in sales and you.

[Rachel Cruze]

You, this is it. You keep saying we. Is that your.

[Caller]

I have a fiance as well.

[Rachel Cruze]

Fiance. Okay. So great. Okay. How was that relationship as you, as you were working your way out of debt? Was that, was he on board? Was he cheering you on?

[Caller]

No, he was on board for me. But yeah. I mean, our finances are separate, so he's on his own financial journey now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure.

[George Kamel]

She's like, well, I'm still going to eat out. You do what you want.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I was going to say that's impressive.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

To be. Yeah. To be in a relationship like that. And you were like, hey, I'm doing, I'm making these changes.

[Caller]

Changes with or without him doing it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe he'll see the, the peace and the control that you have, you know, and. Yeah, maybe you'll rub up on him.

[Caller]

It has, he has his, his thousand dollar emergency fund now. Oh, look, he's not using credit cards, so he's very proud of me and.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good.

[Caller]

And it has rubbed off a little.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. That's great. That's great. I love it.

[George Kamel]

We're so proud of you. And I know a lot of your co workers family are watching your son. I'm sure is like, way to go, mom.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. We have.

[George Kamel]

Pretty wild that your son got you inspired to do this.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

He did.

[Caller]

And he just paid off his debt. He is debt free. He couldn't be here with me today because he's saving up for his wedding.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, look.

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, I love it.

[Caller]

Yeah.

He's debt free now too. Three generations of debt free.

[Rachel Cruze]

Look at you.

[George Kamel]

That's literally changing your family tree.

[Rachel Cruze]

So powerful.

[George Kamel]

We are so proud of you, Honored you came to visit us and so thankful to u haul for the partnership they've had with Smart dollar and helping their own employees. Employees become debt free. Like, why would you not want that for your own team? And so I love to see companies get ahold of this and offer it to their team. All right, you ready for this?

[Caller]

I'm ready.

[George Kamel]

It's Carrie from Phoenix. 33,000 paid off in 18 months. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Caller]

Three, two, one. I'm debt free.

[George Kamel]

Just like that.

[Rachel Cruze]

I love it.

[George Kamel]

Imagine yourself now and then fast forward 18 months from now. That's pretty wild to think about. You could be completely debt free just by getting a little bit focused, a little bit intentional.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Making a few sacrifices.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean. Yeah. And you heard her. She was like, gosh, all these expenses, when I actually started looking and seeing where I was spending, that actually can create the margin to then just completely snowball into the debt to be able to pay it off that much faster. Faster.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Like, it really isn't rocket science. It's just paying attention. Instead of just being in denial, being ignorant, just doing what you want like a child, instead having a little bit of delayed gratification, a little bit of intentionality and going, what did I actually spend? What could I be spending? And how can I use that newfound margin? And that's what's so great about the allnew everydollar is it helps do that for you now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

With all the personalized recommendations. And you heard her, you know, we didn't pay her to talk about every dollar, but she was like, that was the game changer.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, well, and I had it. And that was another thing. I thought we get so many, many calls from people in their 20s and 30s and like, hey, I want to, I want my parents to do this stuff, but they won't listen to me. And we always say, well, if you just do it, they're watching and they're, they're hearing you and your conversations around money. And you can see that's exactly what happened. Right. He was living his life financially, being wise and getting control. And when his mom hit this wall financially in her own life, she thought, oh my gosh, my son is doing something. I wonder what that is. So you never know what that example that you're taking on because you could have. Yeah. A family member like Carrie, and then she gets it, and then she's debt free 18 months later. Absolutely incredible.

[Caller]

Satan.

[Rachel Cruze]

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 24:16, that the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked stumble when they. When calamity strikes. Serena Williams says, I really think a champion is defined not by their wins, but how they recover when they fall.

[George Kamel]

Beautiful. Y also easy to say when you win a lot. You know what I mean? It's not all about winning, guys, but.

[Rachel Cruze]

I just win everything I do.

[George Kamel]

Yep.

[Rachel Cruze]

Williams. Oh, so great. All right, let's go to Nate and in Lansing, Michigan. Hi, Nate. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Yeah, thanks a lot for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, my wife and I are looking for a little of advice here. She is on the leadership team for a hospitality based company out of Florida that is selling to a larger company in York, New York.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And owners. The owners of her company met with her and said that they would like to recognize her years of service and loyalty by giving her a $600,000 bonus from the proceed of the sale.

[Rachel Cruze]

Whoa.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So wonderful.

[Caller]

She figured she might get something from this, but this large of an amount was a pleasant shock to both of us. So the only caveat here is that she is likely after the new company gets on its feet from the merger, the new company may let her go within a year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure.

[Caller]

But we're just looking for advice on what we should do with this 600,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh. How great.

[George Kamel]

What does she make?

[Caller]

Yeah, her annual income is 190,000 a year.

[George Kamel]

Okay, fantastic.

[Rachel Cruze]

How old are you guys?

[Caller]

She's 39. I'm 40.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, wow. Okay. And how much do you make a year?

[Caller]

140,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

140. Okay.

[George Kamel]

Fantastic.

[Caller]

Power.

[George Kamel]

This is a power couple by definition.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know. You are doing. You are doing so great. Okay. Financially. Where are you guys at? Do you guys have any consumer debt?

[Caller]

No, we only have what's left on our mortgage, and we have, like, a stupid low interest rate, so that's the only thing we have. 177,000 on the mortgage, and we're debt free otherwise.

[Rachel Cruze]

Amazing. Amazing. Okay, well, usually when we talk about, you know, this type of money that you fall into, well, I shouldn't say. She works very hard, you know, and that's incredible that they're recognizing her with that. But there's really the three big buckets to kind of dip into, and that's giving, being generous, saving, and enjoying some of it. And then I would add. I would throw the mortgage piece in there as well. Well, so yeah, if I woke up in your shoes, I would pay off the mortgage. I would be completely debt free, and you guys would have about 400,000 left. I mean, four. Yeah, 424. 30. And out of that, I would. I would give some. I would find something that you guys. You don't have to be urgent about it, but find something that, as. As a couple, as a family, that you guys are really passionate about, that you love. And. And I'd set some money aside for some giving. And then beyond that, I mean, yeah, you could, you know, put this in some, you know, an index fund or mutual funds from the investing side, and then I would enjoy some of it. Maybe there's, like, a big trip you guys have been wanting to do. If you guys need to replace any cars or anything like that. I mean, I want you to spend and enjoy part of this.

[George Kamel]

You've earned it to upgrade your life a Little bit, yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, we're, we're doing pretty well otherwise. We, we do have 90,000 in a savings account, and I'm kind of on the fence on whether that's too much. You know, we do plan to retire a little bit early, though. So that's, that's another thing here.

[George Kamel]

I think this becomes your brokerage, non retirement brokerage account, bridge fund that'll get you to, you know, 59 and a half when you can access those retirement accounts without penalty. So I love the idea of you're going to need to set aside some of it for taxes, right?

[Caller]

Exactly.

[George Kamel]

Your tax bill is going to increase severely this year, which is fine, but set it. Figure out how much that's going to be and set that aside in a separate savings account to be ready for that. I would pay off the mortgage personally, regardless of the interest rate, just because it's going to free you guys up to have total freedom, total margin, more cash flow coming in that you can use for the rest of your life. And maybe, you know, you upgrade the house down the road, maybe you upgrade the car. And like Rachel said, we're going to give some, spend some, and then whatever's left over, I would just park in that brokerage account and let that be the start of your bridge fund for.

[Rachel Cruze]

Retirement, is what you're saying, to retire early.

[George Kamel]

So if you guys want to retire at 50 or 55, you've got a nice cushion to get you there.

[Caller]

Even if that interest rate is just below 3. That's what it is. We talked about this last night, and she's like, well, I'm interested to hear what they have to say on the show. But what if we didn't pay the mortgage off and invested it and just hope to beat that 3%? Does that make sense?

[Rachel Cruze]

Of course. Yeah. It's the number one argument we get with telling people to pay off their house.

[George Kamel]

And you're in the unique position where you could literally write a check and pay off the mortgage today. Whereas most people are just hypotheticals. They don't actually have the money. But when you look at just how much you're paying in interest, it's just, it's still even at 3% on a loan that size, you're just like, why am I giving the bank 1,000 bucks this month? This is silly. And so to me, you're going to be multi, multi, multimillionaires. Whether it's seven and a half million or 7.2 million, I'd be happy to have that. Argument down the road.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And what you don't equate for Nate, and we talk to people all the time who have paid off their houses, that there's just a level of peace that you can't put in an Excel spreadsheet and that, you know, you try to find the spread here or there, you're not going to find genuine, just peace of mind knowing that you don't owe anyone anything, no bank is over your head at all. Like, you are completely free. So what I would encourage you to do is I would. I would pay it off. And then if you hate it, if you hate being debt free and you really want a mortgage, you could, you know, borrow on the house and get a mortgage again.

[George Kamel]

It'll be like 6%, though, so that's really going to put a damper in your pocket.

[Rachel Cruze]

I don't care. But it's the. It's the. It's the idea that you would never go back into debt once it was paid off.

[George Kamel]

When you told us she. There's a possibility she gets laid off in the future. And so not having a mortgage just makes that a yawn. Okay. Guess she gets to look at the next thing she's doing instead of, man, we really got to lower our lifestyle because this mortgage payment was three grand. And obviously you guys are doing so well that I don't think that would be an issue. But it's just going to only increase your piece. And you're talking to two people who don't have a mortgage payment. And this is something that we would do. I would do it all over again. Regardless of its 1% or 7% percent. I'm just going to knock it out because the bank doesn't get to tell me I own my house or not.

[Caller]

Yeah, that was my sentiment, too, in our discussions. Obviously, it's a team decision here, but she's very supportive of me coming on the show and getting some outside advice. So thank you very much.

[George Kamel]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Cruze]

Congrats, Nate. I know. And well done.

[George Kamel]

She's earned it. Yeah. I think a shopping. This is my dream, is just give her a shopping spree. You know, whatever her favorite stores are. Go. You know what?

[Rachel Cruze]

Here's a couple things.

[George Kamel]

10 grand in a day. You have to spend it. So enjoy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Go.

[George Kamel]

What woman is like, no, I don't want to do that. That sounds terrible.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sounds awful.

[George Kamel]

Make it a weekend spa day one day, a shopping day another day. And one day just for recovery, because that was a lot. It was stressful.

[Rachel Cruze]

There was a lot of effort that went into that, yeah, that is one argument. I mean, I don't want to say argument. He was not being argumentative about it, but one, take that. From a math standpoint, we hear a lot. If you did have a lower interest rate, the 2, 3% percent and you could be making, you know, easily 15% in the market, even more so or.

[George Kamel]

Even at a high yield savings, I can make 4 in the high yield savings and the mortgage is 3. What's, what's the point?

[Rachel Cruze]

And yep, and so that is something that we hear, we hear often from the math nerds. And again, from a mathematical standpoint, we understand it, we're not stupid. But there is something about personal finance where we always say it is 80% behavior, it's 20% head knowledge. What you do, the person you are handling the money is the bulk of your money problems and your money solutions. And when the person handling the money, AKA you, you are completely free. Scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender. And when you do not owe anyone anything, there is a level of rest and peace and sleep at night that you just don't always get. Knowing I have to pay this, there's a level of risk. And again, their numbers are big. So like, would they pay it? Probably, yes. But man, there, there's just something to be said that you just can't take it away. You can't take it away. So.

[George Kamel]

Well, there's a, there's something to be said for wanting to solve for the spread that you could make versus just solving for peace. And they're just two very different goals. And so it's not an apples to apples argument of on paper, I could make this. Listen, you're playing checkers over here. I'm playing chess.

[Caller]

That's right.

[George Kamel]

Just a different, it's a different game. What do you want that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. And our goal with this show is solving for peace, getting control of your money. So money's not an issue in your life, that you get to go through it, through life. And money is a tool to be used, but it's not a point of stress for you. All right, George, great show. Thanks. Has always been a great co host. Everyone in the booth. Thank you guys. And for you, America, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the princess of peace, Christ Jesus.