Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck—Start Living With Options

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck—Start Living With Options"

Date: April 22, 2026
Host: John Delony & Jade Warshaw (Ramsey Network)
Theme: How to break the paycheck-to-paycheck cycle, get out of debt, and build wealth by making practical, disciplined financial decisions.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, John Delony and Jade Warshaw (with guest appearances from Dave Ramsey) take live calls tackling real-life money dilemmas. The central theme is gaining financial freedom—breaking habits that keep people living paycheck to paycheck and instead moving to a place of options, security, and peace. The hosts offer tough love, motivating listeners to use clear frameworks, practical strategies, and Ramsey's Baby Steps plan to fix their finances and relationships.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Prioritizing Financial Moves with Overlapping Life Events

[00:38–09:01] – Caller: Lauren, Pittsburgh, PA

• Situation: Lauren and her husband are juggling $35,000 in credit card debt, a $193,000 mortgage, $28,000 in single stocks, and expecting a third child. They're hoping to sell their townhouse and upgrade, but the baby budget and housing timeline are overlapping.
• Advice:
  • Clear Debt First: Sell single stocks to pay off as much debt as possible, then use the interim before the baby to save cash.
  • Save For Emergencies: Stack up three to six months of expenses before considering a house move.
  • Delay Moving: Wait until after the baby is born and the debt is gone before buying a new house, even if it means a tight living situation for a period.
• Notable Quote:
  • Jade: “Please wait, because that’s going to give you the freedom of, if you want to take a little bit more time, you can.” [04:58]
  • John: “How quickly can we get out of the discomfort and do it in a way that’s really financially responsible?” [03:59]

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2. Budgeting & Relationship Conflict

[10:30–19:59] – Caller: Melissa, Kansas City, MO

• Situation: Melissa combined finances with her husband after 20 years, but he refuses to budget or change his spending, which creates stress and debt.
• Advice:
  • Address Deeper Issues: The root issue isn’t money, but lack of partnership.
  • Conflict Framework: Have an honest, vulnerable conversation using “The story I’m making up is...” to express feelings and invite his response.
  • Lead by Example: Start budgeting and paying off debts, even if he’s not on board. Protect yourself and your credit.
• Notable Quotes:
  • John: “The real issue here is... you have a husband that won’t do life with you.” [11:55]
  • Jade: “Become the person you want to be in your marriage.” [19:26]
  • John: “If that ultimately means he's burning through savings... you may have to re-separate your money, but do it not out of anger, but out of caring for your family.” [19:35]

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3. Getting a Partner On Board with Financial Discipline

[22:31–31:11] – Caller: Josh, Augusta, GA

• Situation: Josh wants his girlfriend—a single mom struggling with low income and debt—to get serious about following Ramsey’s Baby Steps, but she’s reluctant to take action.
• Advice:
  • Look for Action, Not Just Words: Willingness to call for help or seek out solutions is a key relationship “litmus test”.
  • Reality of Income: With a $25K income vs. his $100K, her path will be harder; biggest leverage is finding ways to increase her income.
  • Support, But Don't Save: Encourage improvement, but don’t try to "solve" it for her; focus on her behavior and initiative.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Jade: “Are you thinking about proposing?... I’d want to see you making real efforts.” [24:27]
  • John: “Behavior is a language.” [27:12]

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4. Handling an Unexpected Theft and Conflicting Priorities

[32:59–41:38] – Caller: Grace, Kansas City, KS

• Situation: Grace lost $8,000 to bank fraud while expecting a baby, needing a new car, a roof, and managing a single-income household.
• Advice:
  • Pursue Fraud Recovery Aggressively: Don't write off the $8,000 unless sure; advocate with the bank.
  • Prioritize Immediate Needs: Buy a reliable car with savings before the baby. Roof and mortgage payoff can wait.
  • Maintain Six-Month Emergency Fund: Especially as a stay-at-home parent.
• Notable Quotes:
  • John: “I would scratch and claw and fight like hell... be the biggest $8,000 thorn in the side of that bank.” [41:38]
  • Jade: “The emergency fund is exactly what it's there for.” [39:05]

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5. Optimizing Mortgage Payoff & Considering Major Life Changes

[43:59–52:10] – Caller: Tammy, Detroit, MI

• Situation: Tammy wants to homeschool and cut her hours, affecting their ability to aggressively pay off a mortgage. Considering full payoff by moving to a smaller house.
• Advice:
  • Re-calculate with New Margin: Your priorities can shift with life changes. Do what’s right for your family right now.
  • No Need to Rush: Reducing payoff speed from 7 to 22 years isn't a tragedy—value your choices.
  • Grieve Lost Expectations: It’s okay to grieve the change; don’t let the original “plan” steal the happiness from your actual success.
• Notable Quote:
  • John: “You’re grieving a reality that was never a reality. It was a story.” [49:59]
  • “Y’all are winning all across the board.” [50:46]

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6. Should You Prioritize Religious School Tuition Over Rapid Debt Payoff?

[54:14–63:27] – Caller: Sean, Cincinnati, OH

• Situation: In Baby Step 2, Sean and his wife pay $1,600/month for private school, leaving a slow path to clearing $28,000 of debt.
• Advice:
  • School Payment Is Like Any Other Bill: Budget for it as a fixed expense, but recognize that slow, no-margin debt paydown can be dangerous.
  • Increase Income or Cut Expenses: If the school is non-negotiable, you must earn more or cut elsewhere—don’t let being “trapped” force you into desperate decisions like credit cards or gambling.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Jade: “If your core income just does not sustain the life that you want... that means you have to start looking for ways to get your core income up.” [59:07]
  • John: “I get real nervous anytime I hear a man who sounds trapped... trapped men never make great choices long-term.” [62:31]

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7. Family Inheritance and Toxic Parent Relationships

[66:20–73:09] – Caller: John, Los Angeles, CA

• Situation: John’s father wants $60,000 of inheritance money “repaid” for legal fees contesting an estate; meanwhile, past broken promises cloud the relationship.
• Advice:
  • You Owe Nothing: There’s no legal or ethical obligation to pay unless explicitly agreed upon before the money was spent.
  • Have Adult Conversations: Don’t communicate through intermediaries (his mom); insist on direct conversation if needed.
  • Prioritize Peace Over ROI: Don’t sacrifice your future peace for family manipulation.
• Notable Quotes:
  • John: “The way y’all are going about it sounds like one of you is 9 and one of you is 11… I don’t see you under any obligation for anything.” [71:02]
  • Jade: “You’ve already run through this [scenario] so many times in your brain... I just want to slam the gavel and go, 'That's it, it’s over.'” [71:06]

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8. Working Late in Life to Build Retirement

[106:20–114:43] – Caller: April, New York

• Situation: April, age 65, began working at 63 after years as a homemaker; $85K in cash, no debt, house and car paid off; worried about building enough for retirement.
• Advice:
  • Invest the Surplus: Place most savings into high interest accounts and work with a pro to start investing; maximize contributions since there are no living expenses.
  • Late Start, So Work Longer: Be realistic about working into her 70s, but her debt-free life and saving mindset are enormous assets.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Jade: “Since your home is paid off, you get to invest as much as you want, which is awesome.” [110:59]
  • John: "At 63, every penny is going to count." [111:31]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Normal is broke and common sense is weird.” – John Deloney [00:13]
• “You can’t solve a problem while simultaneously creating it.” – Jade Warshaw [124:09]
• “If you look up and you’re putting more intentionality and time into anything that’s not your family, you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself.” – Jade [79:12]
• “Money isn’t the most important thing in life, but it’s reasonably close to oxygen on the gotta have it scale.” – Zig Ziglar (Dave reads) [116:52]

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Additional Topics & Resources

• Prioritization: Always focus on paying off debt before making large purchases or moving up in house size.
• Communication: Use vulnerable, honest language (“The story I’m making up is…”) for difficult money conversations with loved ones.
• Budgeting Muscle: Build the discipline of budgeting and incremental debt paydown—even if you expect a windfall or bonus.
• Relationship Litmus Test: Don’t “drag” people along financially—look for self-driven effort as a sign of long-term partnership compatibility.
• Career & Wealth Building: Early years post-college should always be about grind and opportunity maximization, not comfort or short-term savings.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:38 – Prioritizing debt, house, & baby (Lauren)
• 10:30 – Marital money battles & budgeting (Melissa)
• 22:31 – Getting a partner on board with Baby Steps (Josh)
• 32:59 – Recovering from theft, emergency funds (Grace)
• 43:59 – Homeschool/mortgage trajectory; trade-offs (Tammy)
• 54:14 – School tuition vs. faster debt payoff (Sean)
• 66:20 – Family, inheritance, and boundaries (John, LA)
• 106:20 – Late-life retirement planning (April, NY)
• 124:09 – The mindset shift: Stopping the borrowing cycle

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Tone & Approach

• Direct and Compassionate: Tough love, with understanding and practical, proven steps.
• Encouraging Self-Efficacy: Empowering listeners to act, not just contemplate.
• Honest, No-Nonsense: Calls out self-sabotage, avoidance, and excuses, while showing warmth and hope.

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Summary Takeaways

• Getting out of the paycheck-to-paycheck mindset means making intentional, sometimes uncomfortable choices: handling debt before career/housing upgrades, leading by example in your relationships, and prioritizing peace over maximizing theoretical returns.
• Personal finance isn’t just strategy—it’s emotional, relational, and requires courage, vulnerability, and a willingness to face discomfort head-on.
• You can build wealth, regardless of past mistakes, but only by following a clear, disciplined plan—one step, one conversation, one sacrifice at a time.

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For more info & resources:

• Ramsey Solutions – Get Started
• EveryDollar app (free budgeting tool) – Mentioned multiple times as essential for starting and maintaining a plan

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End of Summary.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[John Deloney]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Warshaw, and we are taking your calls live. 888-25525. Let's go out to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and talk to Lauren. Hey, Lauren. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[John Deloney]

Of course. Thanks for calling in. What's going on?

[Caller]

So I'm looking for some help prioritizing a few big financial moves all at the same time. Just to kind of condense it. My husband and I have about 35,000 in credit card debt, a mortgage with about 193,000 remaining on our townhouse, and I have $28,000 in single stocks and a baby due in October.

[John Deloney]

Congratulations.

[Caller]

Thank you. So we've outgrown our current townhouse and hoping to sell and buy something potentially next spring. But I just started listening to the podcast, and I know the baby steps say to stop investing and pay off debt before saving for a house, but in our case, the timeline kind of overlaps because of the baby. So my question is, would you recommend we sell the socks and then use all of it to pay off the deb first, even if that delays our ability to move? Or do we split that money between paying down the debt and keeping cash for the home transition so we can still move on the timeline of, like, next spring?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I wouldn't change it because I don't think that anything's actually on fire here. I think you're just really excited, which is not a. It's not a bad thing. Do you know what I'm saying?

[John Deloney]

Is this your first kid?

[Caller]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's our third one, but it's

[Jade Warshaw]

your third one, so it's getting cramped. That's where you're feeling it? It's getting cramped in the townhouse?

[Caller]

Yeah. Three under.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, boy. Okay. So I can understand that. I empathize with you. I don't have three. I have two. And that was wild enough for my life. So I love the idea that. That, you know, hey, yeah, we got to sell off the stocks. I love that that's going to clear out the majority of your debt, and probably between now and when the baby comes, you'll be able to save up the rest of the money to clear out that debt. Which, by the way, tell me again,

[Caller]

when's the baby due October 9th. So early October.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so October. So what I'd be doing is I'd be spending from now until Oct. Saving up as much cash as I possibly can. You and your husband. That way when the baby comes, we cash out the stocks, we have hopefully another six or seven thousand dollars. We can pay off the credit card here and then everything's all good and we can start building up towards having our three to six months and everything like that. And to answer your question, you do need to save three to six months before you buy that house.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. So why. Okay, so you, you've been on this road before. I remember all of the panic and. Well, most of it was in my chest, but in my home when we were bringing home our first kid. And I remember just looking at this tiny little lump of a human that couldn't move and was swaddled and was laying there and was just so loud. What is it about six months after October that you couldn't manage with just bringing home another 10 pound glob? Right. You get what I'm saying? I know I said that very nice.

[Caller]

But we know we. It's a, it's a two bedroom townhouse. So with two kids already, a boy and a girl, this is another girl. I mean they could share rooms, we could make it work, but it's, it's just getting a little tight.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, I get that, I get that.

[Jade Warshaw]

And here's the thing, it is going to be tight. John and I aren't going to sit here and tell you that it's not going to be uncomfortable. But my question to you would be, how quickly can we get out of the discomfort and do it in a, in a way that's really financially responsible. So what's you guys income

[Caller]

right now? It's. I'm the primary breadwinner since my husband just started a business. So I'm $110,000 a year now.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's going to happen when the baby comes? Have you talked about that yet? Do you have. You've got maternity leave or what?

[Caller]

Yep, I'm a teacher, so there's no maternity leave, but I will have eight weeks for my C section. I'll be right back in there.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ooh, that's cutting it close on a C section. That's cutting it close. I'm just saying I'll never sing that song again. But this backs up what I'm saying even more because the truth is I've had two. And the truth is you don't know how you're gonna Feel that's the truth.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that backs up what John and I are saying even more to say, okay, let's cool out. Let's. Let's stack up money. Because if you need to take a couple extra weeks, if you're not feeling quite right, if standing on your feet for however many plus hours a day as a teacher, I mean, I'm just saying please wait, because that's going to give you the freedom of. If you want to take a little bit more time, you can. So, yeah, I would do that. Let's go back to what we talked about before, which is how long can it take us to stack up the three to six months so that we can then start purchasing the. The new house with 110,000. What do you see your husband's income doing between now and then?

[Caller]

It kind of fluctuates Right now, like I said, he just started a business, so we're hoping he got it up and running in November, so we're hoping that that starts turning a profit. But it's a used car car dealership, so it's just, like, inventory and things like that. So hopefully that will change.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's his business plan say? Like, what's his business plan say? What should he be making by, I don't know, say, January?

[Caller]

Yeah, he's. He's hoping to have about six to $10,000 a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

How realistic is this hope? Because I hope I get a million dollars on the way home, but. But probably not, right? How realistic is this?

[Caller]

He's getting. He's getting close for. For starting in November. He's getting close to breaking even now. So as long as inventory can stay consistent, then it is very reasonable. He's making about three to four right now a month, so.

[John Deloney]

Well, and there's nothing going on globally that could possibly interrupt anything, so that's cool.

[Caller]

Of course.

[John Deloney]

Geez Louise.

[Jade Warshaw]

Man, you guys have a lot of variables here. And there's a lot of. And I'm not saying this because I don't want you to worry. I just want you to be smart. When I look at these variables, I don't think, oh, there's a lot to worry about. I just go, we need to be thoughtful in how we move forward. When you sell the townhouse, how much equity will you have to put towards the future home?

[Caller]

Probably about $70,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

And will you need more than that to put the correct down payment on said future home?

[Caller]

Probably a little. I mean, for like, a $400,000 house, you know, we're thinking of, like, three, four bedrooms. You know, I realistically like 20%, right. About 80 grand. So we could save that up, I would think, but you know, 70k. But that's contingent upon selling our townhouse, of course, right now.

So.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, now I do want to challenge you on this just, just to. The 20% rule isn't what it once was, you know. Yeah, you do 20%. You can avoid PMI, but it doesn't necessarily move that payment down to 25% of your take home pay. So make sure you jump on to a mortgage calculator at Ramsey Solutions and just run out those numbers because at this point you're putting down usually more than 20% in order to avoid PMI and to get that payment where you want. Because the rule of thumb is, and this is for anybody listening, you want no more than 25% of your take home pay tied up in your mortgage. And your mortgage includes everything. Taxes, insurance, HOA fees. Right. And so just, just lock that in. Lauren, you just got to take, take your time, please wait until the baby's born. Save up a bunch of money. Once the baby's born, you pay off the debt. Once you pay off the debt, you stack up three to six months of expenses. And then, and only then, can you sell the house, knowing that you also have money on top of that. 70,000 to follow the 25%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[John Deloney]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[John Deloney]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too.

[John Deloney]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going eat tomorrow.

[John Deloney]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options and take care of your dadgum family.

[John Deloney]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off Debts cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah, to just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying, I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff, Zander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[John Deloney]

All right, let's go out to Kansas City, Missouri and talk to Melissa. Hey, Melissa. What's going on?

[Caller]

Hi. How are you all doing?

[John Deloney]

Great. How are you?

[Caller]

I am doing good.

[John Deloney]

What's going on?

[Caller]

Sorry, I'm a little nervous, so bear with me.

[John Deloney]

Oh, you're good.

[Caller]

Okay. So my husband and I have been married for almost 20 years, and we recently combined finances.

[John Deloney]

What led to that combination?

[Caller]

You know, we just never combined them. We got married very young. We just never combined them. And after we had my son about 11 years ago, I started asking, hey, can we combine them? Because it was just a struggle to see who was paying for What. And about 18 months ago, after he got out of the military and we settled in a house, he said he agreed. And it's just. It hasn't been what I thought it would be. And it's very frustrating. I've created budgets, but he won't stick to a budget. He won't help me create a budget. And I just feel like his spending is out of control and stresses me out so much. So, so I.

[John Deloney]

The problem is that you're combined income. The problem problem is you have a husband that won't do life with you. Right. Like the, the. The flashing alarm signal is the overdrawn accounts. The real issue here is you've sat down with your husband and said, hey, can we do life together after being married for two decades? And he has said through his actions, no, thank you. I'm gonna keep doing what I want to do.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And so what's. What's this? What's the state of Yalls household finances?

[Caller]

I recently got a huge promotion. It doubled my pay almost. So I am. I am now earning more than he is. How much about his VA benefits? I'm earning over 90,000 in our household income. We make about 12,000 net in our account. And it just. Every time I try to put some money away, I just feel like it flies out somewhere and gets new hobbies all the time. He has a dirt bike and a four wheeler, and I just don't know what to do. To make him understand that I'm just. I want the best for our family, so I don't want to be strapped down with debt.

[John Deloney]

The only. The only conversation I've seen be effective is the conversation beneath the money issues. And so if you. If you have harassed him for. And I'm being provocative on purpose. Okay. If you've harassed him for 11 years. We need to combine money. We need to combine money. We need to combine money. And he gets home from deployment, he gets out of the military and says, fine. That was never the issue. The issue is you saying, I don't feel safe when we owe people money. I'm scared about our financial future. Will you help me feel less unsafe? Right, because that's really what's happening underneath all of this. And every time a. A four wheeler shows up at the house, your body goes, oh, what about college? What about our bills? What about. What about. What about.

[Caller]

Right?

[John Deloney]

If you haven't had that conversation, that's the only one I've seen be successful.

[Caller]

I. I feel like I have had that conversation. I try to put it on, like, this scares me. This is what I worry about. I just.

[John Deloney]

What does he say back?

[Caller]

Okay, well, we'll sit down sometime and we'll go over it. And then when I get to that, hey, why don't we do it now? Or, okay, can we schedule a time? There's always something, and it just continues to be pushed back. We set a deadline. We were going to start in July of last year, and nothing happened. And then I asked him again as a new year, like, I really would love us to put a budget together because he didn't like the budget I put together myself. And he just, he doesn't. He thinks because we can make the minimum payment and we can still, you know, go out to eat, and he thinks that is fine. And I'm just like, if we can buckle down for a little bit and get out of debt, we could live so much better. We could give more opportunities to our son. And it just. Yeah, I just can't get that from him.

[John Deloney]

I'm gonna give you a framework, okay? This is like a last ditch framework.

[Caller]

All right?

[John Deloney]

You ready for this? I want you to tell him that you need to have a big conversation with him. You know, he might roll his eyes. He might be like, oh, here we go again. And. But I want you to hold firm, okay? And when you have this conversation, I want you to tell him this in this order. The story I'm choosing to make up is. Or the story I'm making up is you don't care that I can't breathe in our house. The story I'm making up is you don't care about our financial future and that we're not safe. The story I'm making up is debt doesn't bother you at all. And it does bother me and you don't care. And based on those stories that I'm making up, I feel scared. I feel alone in this marriage. Whatever your feelings are and then give him an opportunity to respond. And if you sit down and say you're not doing this and you're not doing that then and you lead with you words, he's going to wall up and defend himself. We all do that. But if you say, hey, I'm making up stuff about you, am I right? Then that's an invitation. And if he walks away from that table, then you're going to have to. I mean, Jayden, correct me if I'm wrong here, you're going to have to begin taking ownership of your future.

[Caller]

Right.

[John Deloney]

Because he doesn't seem to have interest in that.

[Caller]

Yeah, right.

[John Deloney]

That to me is the last ditch framework that that's how I teach people to handle conflict in their marriage. Just own the story I made up, own the feelings you have about it and own what you're going to do next. And if it makes sense, give them an opportunity to respond.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, I want to play devil's advocate on this for a minute because when he was deployed, what type of work does he, what type of work did he do in the military?

[Caller]

You know, he actually never deployed. He only had some TVYs, but luckily we never had to go through a deployment. He was in for 17 years and got out two and a half years, three years ago.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what type of work did he do?

[Caller]

He worked on the jets. On different jets.

[Jade Warshaw]

I can tell you what I'm thinking and I think that this is all in the context also of what John is saying, counseling, whatever that that looks like for you guys, because I do think that you need counseling with a third party. There's part of this where as you're waiting for him to man up because I think he needs to and I don't think you just need to sit there completely. I can't move. I can't do anything because I'm waiting on this guy to get his life together.

[John Deloney]

No, she's got to take action.

[Jade Warshaw]

You've got to take action. And I remember talking with a friend of mine who was dealing with not exactly the same, but similar and what she would do is she found out the things that were most important to her husband. And she was like, I'm gonna make sure that that's on the. I'm gonna go ahead and create the budget I'm gonna offer for him to see it. If he's not gonna look at it, that's his choice. But at least I've made it and I've said, here it is. I would love for you to look at this by X amount of dates because I'm gonna move forward with what's on here. And what she would do is she would budget for the things that she knew he cared about. So maybe he loves going to the movies. So she'd put a little bit on there for him to go to the movies. That way it's not anything that's going to make him walk in and be like, you, what are you doing? So that's what she did. And she would say, hey, there's this amount of money left in margin. I'm going to use that to pay off debt. And then when the time came, she'd pay off the debt and then she'd come back to him and say, hey, just like I said, I used that money and I paid off a 500 medical bill. So she did her part, she did the budget, she showed it to him, she made payments. She let him know that things that she was paying off. And then over time he started to see, wow, this, this is really working. Now, caveat. They're not. He's not on board yet. They're. She's going forward. She's going forward at a much slower pace because you go further, faster together. Right. We all know that. But I don't want you to sit there on your hands simply because this guy is not manning up.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, it's. That's a great way to say, become the person you want to be in your marriage.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. Start doing it right.

[John Deloney]

And if that, if that ultimately means he's burning through savings and then, yes, you may have to re separate your money, but do it with a. Not a smile on your face. But don't do it out of anger. Do it out of. Okay, cool. I've got to take care of our son. I have to take care of our house. I've got debts in my name. And pull your credit report to make sure he hasn't put you on these jet skis and on these four wheelers and all that kind of mess.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it lead by example.

[John Deloney]

That's exactly right. Be who you want to be in your marriage.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[John Deloney]

One of our favorite things is when people share their stories of how they're winning with their money. We just got this awesome review of our EveryDollar app. The fan said just being able to use EveryDollar and see all the extra we had every single month was super motivating. We'd have thousands of dollars extra and just throw it on our mortgage. This is amazing. You can find this kind of margin too. You can take control of your money and you can change your family tree. You can live like no one else when it comes to your money. Start every dollar for free today in the App Store or on Google Play. Squad to Augusta and talk to Josh. What's up Josh?

[Caller]

Well, the cost of living. Among other things.

[John Deloney]

You're exactly right. It's higher and higher and higher. How can we help? Brother?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah. So I kind of got a question. Looking for an outside opinion. I'm trying to figure out a good way that's not going to cause any strife. Excuse me? As well. Any major strife. To get my girlfriend on board with the baby steps and create a solid plan going forward.

[John Deloney]

I think you should give her a budget. A budget that you've already done and lecture her and use a bunch of spreadsheets.

[Caller]

I think that's terrible advice.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. Don't do that.

[Jade Warshaw]

What is it? Does she have a bunch of debt and you're trying to convince her to pay her debt off? What? What's the catalyst for this that you feel like you want to meddle in her finances?

[Caller]

So you see what I'm doing here?

[John Deloney]

John, why? Yeah, why are you getting in her business, dude?

[Caller]

It's a reasonably good answer. So for Christmas, my mother sent her one of the. One of your budget evaluation books. And she was really good about. She religiously went right through it and did all the math and tried to figure out she could do differently. And the conclusion that she came to is that her expense, her life expenses are too high. But she has no idea, like even listening to, listening to the show, looking through the baby steps, talking about it, she doesn't have a clear picture of how to get out of it. And there's a good reason. She's a single mother with a five year old.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And do you know how much debt she has?

[Caller]

A lot less than it was. She has about $4,000 in debt right now.

[John Deloney]

It sounds like she's crushing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Why isn't she calling in? I'm still trying to get back to you, like, what's it to you? Are you thinking about proposing? Are you? Like, tell me where you're caught up. Hung up in this.

[Caller]

So I am 26. I have, I have like $2,000 in debt right now, excluding my mortgage. My almost paid off. And the only reason that she's so far ahead was because she totaled her car a little while ago. And the gap insurance paid off her car, which she was upside down in. So she got a lucky windfall, which is good. But since then she hasn't made any forward progress at all.

[John Deloney]

Has she asked for your help, brother?

[Caller]

She has.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Also,

[John Deloney]

how did she ask for it?

[Caller]

Well, first she was in tears, not knowing what to do. And I was doing my best to, you know, be, be patient and wait for her to be in a position to be receptive. And then I explained to her what I did and how it worked for me and why. But each time we talk about it, she always comes back to you. But you make so much more money than I do.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you make?

[Caller]

This is so much easier for you. I make about 100,000 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what does she make? Do you know?

[Caller]

About. About 25.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Yeah, that's going to be a problem. What kind of work does she do?

[Caller]

She's a delivery driver for a car dealership, delivering parts and all that stuff.

[Jade Warshaw]

I can tell you what I think and I don't know if you're gonna like it, but this is something that is. This is a litmus test in my mind if I were in your shoes. Because I'm just telling you, in my shoes. It's bothering me that she didn't call in because if I want to see if somebody' go getter and if I want to see if somebody is like about what they say they want to do, I want to see you making real efforts towards that. So I would hope that she would call in and say, here's where I'm at. Here's what I need help with. Here's what I'm trying to pay off. That would be my first. If I were you, I'd. That would be my question to her, which is, I listen to this show, we're both on this thing. Why don't you just call in and ask or why don't you use Ask Ramsey and get and get the solution to the problem? That'd be thing one. The next thing that I'd be checking for is I'd want to make sure that she's not an and what I mean by that, I talk about this in the book. When you're an asshole, you're a person who asks questions over and over. You just ask and ask and ask and ask, but you never make any movement. James Clear talks about that in Atomic Habits. You just get and get and get information, but you never actually, you know, put it in.

[John Deloney]

Do anything.

[Jade Warshaw]

You don't, you don't do anything.

[John Deloney]

Another podcast, another cup of coffee.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm worried that that's what she's doing because you've said, oh, I've talked to her, I've told her what to do. She's not doing it. So that's something that you can either take that information and go, this is a quality. And I don't know how I feel about that quality in her.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's kind of the zone that I've been in off and on for a little while.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

How long have y' all been together?

[Caller]

About two and a half years.

[John Deloney]

Are you gonna marry this person?

[Caller]

I'm never. That's a hard question for me to answer because after two and a half years about the state being involved in my relationship, that's the only reason.

[John Deloney]

Oh, well, I just finished a two year study, like a down the rabbit hole study on marriage and the data on formal legalized marriage versus cohabitation, it still wins out in a pretty significantly statistical way. A statistically significant way. It still does. But all I have to say is you do you boo. I, I, I, I'm fond of saying behavior is a language. And what her actions are telling me is she's not interested in your advice, she's not interested in what you're bringing to the table. When it comes to this stuff. And she's not interested in, she read the book, she listens to the show, she's not interested in going guns ablazing to get this stuff knocked out. And she has a very difficult living circumstance. No question about it. She doesn't make hardly any money. She's a single mom. Like all she's got all the, the variables against her. But again this like, like the greatest thing I get to do in this, in this job is listening to story after story after story of people in all sorts of situations rise up and, and so but for you it's, you can't convince her you're living it. You've told her, she's asked and you've told her your mom has given her the book. Like at some point you have to open your hands up and let this conversation go and continue to live financially the way you want to live.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can I ask you this? Her five year old, is he in kindergarten yet?

[Caller]

She.

[Jade Warshaw]

And yes, she's in kindergarten. And, and that I'm guessing this was the first year of kindergarten. I also, I'm, I'm just going to give her, I'm going to throw her a life draft here and say it's possible that maybe before the, the girl was in kindergarten mom was used to working part time and kind of juggling both things. So she probably wasn't making it, you know, really making what she could income wise. And this is that there's more freedom probably of schedule. And I'm wondering if, and you can ask her about this. Hey, now that you know, baby girl is in, in, in in kindergarten all day, maybe now's a great time to start looking at full time jobs that you can work, you know, drop her at early care in the morning, work a full day, come back and pick, you know, little girl up from school. But we now's a good time that you maybe could get your income up because you know as well as I do this is there's two parts to the equation. Expenses down or income up. I think income up season and you can drop that there and see what she does with it. But I agree with John that behaviors a language.

[Caller]

So I completely agree. Except she had a huge, huge advantage as that her daughter's father, his mother. So her daughter's grandmother on her father's side owns a daycare.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh okay.

[Caller]

Part of their separation agreement was that he would pay for childcare.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well then there you go.

[Caller]

That was. So that was never an issue. She would drop her off before work and then go work. She's working 38 to 45 hours a week and bringing home less than 500, which today, with regular living expenses, it's impossible.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, but again, I hate to say it this way. She has told you through her actions this is not a problem that she wants your solutions for and that can make you feel powerless and alone. I get it. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our mental and emotional health and our relationships. Money worries cause anxiety and they are one of the leading sources of conflict for all types of couples. I know this. My wife and I have struggled with money conflicts for years. Listen, therapy can help, even with money conversations. Therapy is not about financial advice, but it can help you build healthier ways of coping, give you strategies to communicate about money, and give you a plan moving forward. I want you to consider talking to my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. Better Help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and they are fully licensed in the United States. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist isn't a great fit, you can switch at any time for no additional cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.hp.com Ramsey Foreign. Let's go out to Kansas City, Kansas and talk to Grace. Hey, Grace. What's going on?

[Caller]

Hi.

Thanks for having me.

[John Deloney]

You bet. Thanks for calling. What's up?

[Caller]

Yeah, basically, me and my husband, we. Someone got in our bank account and we lost 8,000. And so we just have a few questions of should we continue trying to pay off our house in 10 years, but we also need to buy a new car soon because his car's about to die, a baby's due in July, and other appliances in the house are about to die. And we need a new roof.

[John Deloney]

Our pets, heads are falling off. Everything's happening. All right, so let's. Let's back that thing up a little bit. Okay. So what happened in your bank account?

[Caller]

Someone bought into it and took 8,000. So hopefully we'll maybe get it back, but we highly doubt that we'll get any back.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why? Why is your bank not covering it as fraud?

[Caller]

I'm not really sure they're disputing it, but we're just. We don't know. So how did anything for 30 days

[John Deloney]

but how did somebody get in?

[Caller]

It made a mistake and might have given someone who he thought was the bank his account. So if they.

[Jade Warshaw]

So it was a scam.

[John Deloney]

But I mean it. If that happened, they should be. They'll be on camera coming into the bank or there'll be a record of the transaction.

[Caller]

Like, everything is records and police reports and all of that. We're just. Are. We're counting it as a loss, and maybe we'll get stuff back and maybe we won't. But we want to set a plan before.

[John Deloney]

Okay. I. I wouldn't. I wouldn't count it as. As a loss yet. Money just doesn't disappear out of your account.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

You know what I mean?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Untraceably. Right. And the bank has all kinds of fraud protection and ATM card protection. Like, there's a lot of things here. Right. So I wouldn't just count it as a wash. Yet you. You named a. One thing that's for sure happening. You're having a kid dead soon.

[Caller]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

And then you named a bunch of other potential future things that may or may not come to pass in two months or in five years. And so I want to clear the deck of what you can control right now versus the feeling that it's all coming down because something in the future may happen. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

Is this your first baby?

[Caller]

No, it's my second. 15 months apart.

[John Deloney]

Okay. So you got a lot going on in your house, huh?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[John Deloney]

What's your financial situation?

[Caller]

It's actually pretty good. We have about 55,000 in savings.

Okay.

We only have a mortgage debt. I'm a stay at home mom, and that's about it.

[John Deloney]

What does your husband make?

[Caller]

Make maybe around 50 a year. He's active duty, military, so pretty consistent.

[John Deloney]

How'd you get $50,000 in cash savings?

[Caller]

I have always been a saver. And so when we both got married, we kind of just conjoined everything, and that's what it was, so. And we didn't go to college, so we didn't have any debt, and we were smart not to have credit card debt.

[John Deloney]

Genius. That's fantastic. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Incredible.

[John Deloney]

So you're actually in pretty amazing shape right now.

[Caller]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

If. If he feels the need to go get a $78,000 truck or get a $50,000 Jeep and then jack it up and, like, that would be really unwise.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

You have $50,000?

[Caller]

Want to pay in cash?

[John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah, it's great. But, I mean, but you. You could. You could. Could cash flow Your out of pocket for this baby and fix your appliances and get a ten or fifteen thousand dollar car that would be used and great. And still have a fully funded emergency fund.

[Caller]

So is that like the main thing? We just want to have at least six months in our savings.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I mean with you being a stay at home mom, I want six months.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell us about the new roof.

[Caller]

It's just old and it's like we've had people look at it and we probably need to redo it in about a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it leaking or less?

[Caller]

Not yet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. How much does it cost in your area?

[Caller]

I know, I have no idea. My husband knows all that. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I don't think that's anything that's on fire at this moment. I think the things on fire or the baby.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is, is there anything else that's like must happen now?

[Caller]

Well, we had a plan of paying our house off in 10 years. So we use all our tax return to like put to our mortgage. Yeah. And I just wasn't sure if we should just put that into our savings for that 8,000 that we lost.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's the balance on the mortgage?

[Caller]

159, 716. Sorry.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I'm gonna try to order this in order of importance for you and I'm gonna order it in importance in a way of like here's something you can be thinking about this year and here's something you can be thinking about and don't think about until next year. Right. Until a year from now. So I just wanna make sure I have everything on the list. You've got the baby coming in July, you have a new roof situation. Did I hear there's a new car needed? And why is that? I just want to make sure that it's actually a necessity.

[Caller]

Yeah. So my husband bought like a trash truck Facebook market find and it just keeps breaking down and he keeps working on it, but it's gonna need rewiring soon and that's like too big of a job for him to do. And then it costs way too much to have a mechanic do how much and so not what it's worth for the car. The car is probably worth 2000 and it was over that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay. And then we've got the baby. Okay. So I'm with John. I think the number one thing on the list is we're going to not do much until this baby comes. The only thing I would do until this baby comes is I would take 10 of the 55,000 and I would get a car in cash. I would do that because this $2,000 car, you don't need to put any more money into that. After that, once the baby comes and you've got $45,000 saved, you can start thinking about, okay, what would it look like? You know, everybody's home, medical bill's paid, everything's good. What would it look like to fix our roof? And I'd start charting that out, and I'd start getting different offers and estimates of what that would cost. And then once you have the numbers, since we don't know the numbers today, what could it be? 20,000, maybe it's 15,000. Then we can start saving for that. And we can look at our emergency fund and say, is there enough money there to do that? If there is, we can use that. If there's not enough money, how much more do we need to save in order to make that happen? But your emergency fund is there. That's exactly what it's there for. So that's there. And then after that, that you can start thinking about, okay, with the extra money in our budget, can we put regularly extra payments, extra half payments, extra quarter payments on our mortgage, and that's that.

[John Deloney]

Because you're also assuming he's only going to be making 50,000 bucks two years, three years, five years from now, which.

[Caller]

Yeah. He should still be getting raises every year.

[John Deloney]

Exactly. Now, can I ask you a personal question?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Have you been involved in the conversations with the bank over the missing eight grand?

[Caller]

Sort of. My husband knows more of it because he's been taking care of it. And it like, I got so stressed out, I was throwing up too much and ended in the ER and so I just kind of like left it.

[John Deloney]

Okay. I. I don't want to put anything out into the world that doesn't need to be there, but it's not passing my smell test.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

That $8,000 just suddenly went away.

[Caller]

In.

[John Deloney]

In my world, that is, somebody gambled it away. That is, somebody bought something.

[Caller]

No, no. So I was involved with like the police reports and like, I. They got into our bank account transferring money out with. They actually got his whole card too. So they like took his card. So we have it all on videotape.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so.

[John Deloney]

So there should be fraud protection on the card and that should be hoping.

[Caller]

So we just haven't heard anything.

[John Deloney]

And so we're like, I would scratch and claw and fight like hell, you're a pregnant mom with a toddler. You got one coming. I would, man, I would make this my full time job to be the biggest eight thousand dollar thorn in the side of that bank until they, they made things right with you.

[Jade Warshaw]

I thought I heard you say he gave the account information to somebody he thought was the bank. I thought that's what I heard.

[John Deloney]

Or hear that. Or he took the, somebody got his card and got the information. Okay, but yeah, if he, if he's handed out his banking information, that money's gone.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, yeah, because then my question was, well, what was he giving his banking information to for 8,000.

[John Deloney]

8,000 bucks. That's right. Or if it would, did he give it 50 bucks and then they took eight?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Deloney]

There's a lot of questions, but I would scratch and claw and fight for that money back and hopefully the bank will do the right thing and take care of you guys.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[John Deloney]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. In the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshall taking your calls on money, work and your life. Let's go out to Detroit Rock City and talk to Tammy. What up, Tammy? How we doing?

[Caller]

Hi.

Good.

How are you guys doing?

[John Deloney]

Outstanding. What's going on?

[Caller]

Good.

I have a question. So my husband and I started the Ramsey baby steps about three years ago. But about five years before that we had already gotten into our home. So we had already signed for a 30 year mortgage. So we've completed the baby steps. We have no debt except for our the rest of what we have to pay off our mortgage which is 160, no other debt. We have our emergency funds saved up. Just trying to figure out how to prioritize payment off. So we both work. But I'm considering cutting down my hours to almost nothing. To possibly homeschool our children in the fall. So that would take our income down by anywhere from like 3 to 4,000amonth, which would then. So before we were, when we were through the baby steps, like 1, 2, 3, we then were doubling our mortgage to kind of mimic a 15 year mortgage because we had already signed the 30 year. But now I don't feel like we're going to be able to do that with my cut in income. So I don't know how we prioritize when we have extra margin. Do we prioritize our investing 15% or paying extra on the mortgage or we've even contemplated completely picking up and moving and like we could probably sell our home for about 600 to 630 and we don't. We kind of realized that we don't really need as much land as we have. So we could probably get in something comfortable with like a net zero of no mortgage.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Caller]

With less land.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I think there's a ramp decision. Yeah. I think there, there might be two problems you're solving for and I'm not sure that one of them is even a problem. So. So first off, yeah. If you tell me that you were paying your 30 year mortgage like a 15 and then you tell me, and by the way, I'm not going to be working anymore and it's going to cut our income in half and now we're going to be at how much per month when you do this? 4,000amonth?

[Caller]

Well, no, so I bring home probably 3 to 4,000, but my husband brings

home about 8 to 10.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you'll be just to 8 to 10,000amonth.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And my. Yeah, I would not expect the margin to be the same because. Because you're no longer bringing in an income.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

That being said, what you can look at it and say, okay, with the 8 to 10,000amonth, how much margin do we have to continue to do baby step four, which is investing 15% of your gross income into retirement? After doing that, after putting aside a little bit for kids college, how much do we have to put on the mortgage? And it's okay if it's a little bit less than it was before, it's okay if it's significantly less than it was before. You're going to keep chunking away at this and that mortgage is going to go away.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's disappointing when we went from possibly paying off in five to seven years to now looking to go to like now we can't pay it off for like 22 years. You know what I mean?

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't think it's going to be 22 years. Have you put it in a calculator?

[Caller]

Well, I mean like if we got our 30 year mortgage eight years ago,

[John Deloney]

but you've been paying on it like it was a 15. Yeah, you've paid it way down.

[Jade Warshaw]

You need to, you need to put it in as it is now and see how long it would take take with ever with whatever margin you have. And then if you look at that number and go, we're not satisfied with that, then you have to ask yourself, okay, what's the solution? Maybe while I homeschool, I do a little bit of part time work. Maybe that's the solution. But I think you guys can solution for that. Let's talk about, John, the second problem that may not be a problem, which is we have a lot of land, maybe too much land, maybe we should move. I want to know if you really want to move or if you're just thinking about that because you feel like you have a problem in your current house.

[Caller]

I mean, I don't feel like we have a problem in our current house. We just, right now we have about eight acres and we could be comfortable with like three or less. And that could move us to a comfortable home and eliminate the whole mortgage issue. Like we like our home. But then we're also thinking to be mortgage free and have the extra margin to be able to do extra things on the mortgage.

[John Deloney]

How many kids do you have?

[Caller]

We have two. Five and eight.

[John Deloney]

Five and eight. Okay. Can I throw another idea out here?

[Caller]

Sure.

[John Deloney]

I want to, I want to flip your whole situation around. Okay. You and your husband have worked your butts off for a long time to get into the exact situation you're in right now. Y' all have a more than half a million dollar house and you have 160 grand left on it. You don't owe anybody anything. You are deciding. I might just want to stop working full time and I want to invest fully into my kids.

[Caller]

Right?

[John Deloney]

Y', all, y' all are winning all across the board. I, I, off the top of my head, I forgot the psychological construct here. But, but here's the basic nature of it. If Dave Ramsey called me, texted me and said, hey, I'm going to give you a huge raise, come by my office. And I went by his office and for him to say the words huge raise, I immediately thought he's going to give me $100,000. And he gave me 25,000. He said, John, you've been doing great work. Here's 25 grand, my gift to you. I would feel like he took 75 grand from me, me, because I made up a story in my head and my body started solving for that story. I would have spent 100 grand by the time I went up to his office on the sixth floor of this building.

[Caller]

Right.

[John Deloney]

And so here's what I want you to be careful of. You're grieving a reality that was never a reality. It was a story. We're going to pay this house off in five years. It's not a tragedy that you and your husband chose a different value, which is homeschooling, over another value, which is, we don't want to owe anybody any money. You just put one in front of the other for right now. That's a choice y' all made, and it's disappointing. We're going to grieve the fact that, man, we thought we're going to have this thing knocked out in five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[John Deloney]

We're not. We're going to spend extra time with our. With our kids, and we're going to get this thing done in 10 years. Right. And so I don't want you to hang on to the story because it's casting a shadow over a pretty amazing situation that you and your husband have worked like crazy to set your yourselves up in.

[Caller]

Right.

[John Deloney]

Y' all are winning.

[Caller]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

You get what I'm saying? And not the Charlie Sheen way, but, like, y' all are for real winning, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, I guess. Like you said, I. I've gone through a grieving process of losing that.

Yeah.

That thought and that concept. And.

[John Deloney]

And let me. Let me put one more thing on the table. And. And I've said this a million times on the show. I'll just keep saying it whenever me or my wife or both of us feel hemmed in by an either or decision vision. I have to stop working and homeschool the kids, or I gotta keep working and hate every day. Here's what I want you all to do. I want you to throw on the table five or ten random other ideas. Sell the house, work quarter time instead of part time. Have the kids stay in public schools for one more year or two more years, and then let's hyper drive this thing and get it paid off in insane fashion, and then we're done forever. Like, I want y' all to do this exercise because it will remind you that y' all are free. Y' all are in the driver's seat, and you're not in an either or. Like Dire situation. We gotta turn right or we gotta turn left. And one of these is gonna be the worst decision ever. It's just not the case. One of them's not gonna be. You can't have it all at the same time. But, man, y' all are. Y' all are in a pretty good spot. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah.

Yep.

[John Deloney]

So congratulations there, Jason. Any. Any final words?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I thought that was really, really a good way to frame it up.

[John Deloney]

Cool. I'm proud of you guys. This is what. This is what. I hate to say it like this, but this is what freedom looks like. You get to make choices and. But you still have to own the choices that you make.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, guys, healthcare is one of the biggest stress points in your budget.

[Caller]

It's confusing, and most of the time

[Jade Warshaw]

it feels completely out of your control.

[Caller]

But there is a better way to handle it. Christian Healthcare Ministries isn't health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry where Christians share each other's medical bills.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's not a new idea. THM has been around since 1981. It's predictable and proven. And they've shared over $13 billion in

[Caller]

medical bills for their members.

[Jade Warshaw]

Plus, you get more flexibility.

[Caller]

There are no network restrictions, and you don't have to wait for open enrollment.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now let's Talk about how CHM helps

[John Deloney]

your budget, because programs start at just

[Jade Warshaw]

$115 a month, and many families save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional options. So if you are tired of feeling

[Caller]

stuck, check out Christian Healthcare Ministries.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right now, CHM is offering new members a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Go to CHMinistries.org budget and use promo code RAMSEY.

[John Deloney]

That's CHMinistries.org budget and Use promo code RA. Cincinnati, Ohio. Let's talk to Sean. Hey, Sean. What's up, man?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for taking my call. I had an interesting question for you guys. It's basically that we're in the middle of Baby Step two, and for personal reasons, for religious reasons, we have to send our children a private school. And so we have two kids and we send them both to private school. It costs about 1600amonth for that. And we were just kind of trying to figure out the best way to approach Baby Step two. Like, just because every year we're going to have to pay that. So we didn't know, should we pay off all of our debts except that one, and then, you know, try to stay ahead of it for the next year by paying it all at once. Is that monthly payment? Okay. At what point do we address it? Because we know it's always going to be there every year. And, and it's really important us that, that our children go to that school.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much debt do you have?

[Caller]

We have about 20. Not including our house, we have about 28,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and what's the income?

[Caller]

So combined, it's about 78k a year net.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. What does it look like monthly? What do you bring home?

[Caller]

I bring home about 2300 every two weeks. So it's about. Okay, yeah, 4600.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. With that 4600. What's your margin that you're throwing at this? 28,000 of debt.

[Caller]

So we're. So the way the debt is made up, it's about 6k in the car and it's about 22 in student loans. And so that 4600amonth, that was just mine. My wife brings home another, I don't know, 1400amonth. And of that we're doing about, about 3, 65, 365 on student loans, and we're doing about 400 on the car. Just because minimums on the student loans are. Or, you know, more or less that the car minimum is about two.

[Jade Warshaw]

When you, when you, when you say 365 and 400, is that above the minimum payment or is that including.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

On the car, it's above. It's above.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you're putting 700. You have a margin of $765 over and above minimum payments that you're putting towards your debt.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I would. Tell me if this bothers you. It bothers me that it could foreseeably take you two years to pay off $28,000 of debt.

[Caller]

Yes, for sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So then the question becomes, what are we gonna do about that?

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I'm asking you, what are you going to do about that?

[Caller]

I mean, we're just kind of, you know, taking it day by day. We're trying to.

[Jade Warshaw]

But don't say day by day because I just rolled out the math for you. It bothers me that it would take you over two years to pay off $28,000. And you've said it bothers you, too. As it should. My real question to you on the line is, what are you going to do about that?

[Caller]

Change address. More towards it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So there's two things you can do.

[Caller]

Do.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's two. There's. I'll give you a hint because there's two factors to this. You can either decrease Expenses or you can increase income or you can do both together. So where do you think your greatest potential lies? Does it lie in lowering expenses or does it lie in increasing income

[Caller]

right now, probably decreasing expenses?

[Jade Warshaw]

I would say that. But I also know for you it felt like the 1600 was immovable.

[Caller]

Yeah, it kind of is.

[John Deloney]

Why is that?

[Caller]

Just for personal reasons. It's personal reasons I really prefer not to get into on the air. But just like assuming that that is the reality, I'm curious how you guys would address that. I know you guys would disagree with the premise that that is the reality, but if it were, if you tell

[Jade Warshaw]

me, listen, it's your life. If you tell me this is immovable and I'm not shaking on it, then I'm not going to waste my time trying to push you on it.

[John Deloney]

But what is movable is are you willing to work weekends? Are you, is your wife who makes 1600amonth, is she willing to go find a full time job and double her income now that the kids are in school?

[Caller]

Right.

[John Deloney]

Because, because like, right, you can go make more money especially for a sprint to get this thing knocked out.

[Caller]

Right. And so I guess I'm kind of asking, knowing that that expense is going to be there every year, would it be stay so far ahead of it, you're paying this thing in full at the start of every year in cash.

[John Deloney]

You can't afford to do it. That's even. That's not a relevant question for you. You can't afford that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, because then what happens? Then here, then, then the equation becomes this. It's cool to side hustle and sprint. Like John said, when you have a short term goal, but that's not a long term, that's not sustainable long term. So to your point, if this 1600 is going to be part of your life forever, now you have to start looking at long term measures and going, okay, my core income just does not sustain the life that I want. Want. That means I have to start looking for ways to get my core income up. So that's either I switch my full time job, I move to a less expensive area, I go to a place where there's jobs that pay higher. Do you see what I'm saying? So we really have to decide and I'm working on your framework, which is 1600 is not movable. If that's the case, then you guys do need to look at solutions that are long term solutions. We can help you sprint to pay off the 28,000, but that's not going to solve a 1600 line item for

[John Deloney]

the foreseeable future and monthly. Yeah, it's a bill. It's a water bill, it's a light bill. You don't need to save up 16 times 12 or 16 times 9 and try to figure out how to come up with that many thousands of dollars. Like a, you can't do that. You don't make that kind of money. But it's, you're not in debt to the school, just same as you're not in debt to the cell phone company.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right, right, right.

[John Deloney]

It's a big bill.

[Caller]

Okay. So just treating it kind of like that, kind of like a really expensive water bill.

[John Deloney]

It's a very, very expensive.

[Caller]

In terms of tackle, in terms of tackling it. I got you. Okay, thank you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now, when you, you might be closer than we think. So let's see here. Your car payment, your, your minimum. What's your minimum car payment?

[Caller]

233.

[Jade Warshaw]

233. And what's the minimum to student loan payment?

[Caller]

Like 350.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so we're getting close if we add that up together because you told me before the 765, that does not include minimums. Right,

[Caller]

right. So, so minimum is 233. We pay about 400. And then the, the minimum on the student loan is about 350. We pay like 365 just to put a little something on top.

[Jade Warshaw]

But I mean that puts you at $1348 that you have back in your budget once you pay this debt off. Off, which it's not 1600, but it's finding you a little bit of money to put towards that. So that's the gap that you're going to have to close. But just remembering when you do that, you're not going to have any other margin.

[Caller]

Right. For sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you've got, you've got your work cut out for you. What do you think you're going to do?

[Caller]

We're going to decrease. Decrease expenses.

[John Deloney]

Can your wife not go earn more money?

[Caller]

Not really, no. But I'll find ways. I'll make it work.

[John Deloney]

I'm just telling you, dude, we've been doing this a long time. Those words I'll make it work are famous last words.

[Jade Warshaw]

Will you make one deal with me though?

[Caller]

Sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

Will you promise me you just won't go into debt to make this work? Because what I see is this is what I'm most worried about for you. Your, your decision with your school. I'm not going to take you to task on that. You're, you know, you're going to value what you value. So don't hear me say that like, this is a terrible thing. But what I'm afraid for you is if it gets tight, I would hate for you guys to start leaning on credit cards or anything like that to fill these gaps. So just promise me, no matter what you do, please don't let this be a recipe for you to say yes to debt or credit. Fair enough.

[Caller]

For sure.

[John Deloney]

And I'll just tell you, your language is of a man who's trapped.

[Caller]

Trapped.

[John Deloney]

And trapped men never make great choices long term.

[Caller]

Right?

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

And so if that means. That means if your wife can't do anything else, if there's just no options about the schooling, then you might have to look in the mirror and say, okay, I'm gonna have to go get another job. I'm have to go make some more money. I'm gonna have to work two or three jobs like millions and millions of men are doing all across the country to provide for their families. But it might take that kind of sacrifice and that kind of change. But, man, I get real nervous anytime I hear a man who sounds trapped. Because that's when, like you say, Jay, that's when they start making gambles, they start making bets, they start day trading, they start crypto. They just start doing stuff that they normally wouldn't do. And, man, they find themselves in a big, big mess. You're not trapped, bro.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Jade Warshaw]

Buying a home is one of the

[Caller]

biggest financial decisions you'll ever make.

[Jade Warshaw]

But too many people base the decision

[Caller]

on opinions or what the market is doing that week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Churchill Mortgage has been our trusted partner for over 30 years because they do things the Ramsey way. A lot of people think buying a home starts with going to a bunch of open houses. But if you're buying a home the right way, you start with a budget and a trusted guide like Churchill. Before you even think about house shopping, Churchill will show you the real numbers, not what a bank will approve. Buying before being ready is how people end up house poor and stressed out.

[Jade Warshaw]

Churchill will tell you the truth and they won't push you into more house than you need.

[Caller]

And once you understand what you can

[John Deloney]

actually afford, you can move forward with clarity and confidence.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you're ready to buy a home, choose the right guide and stick to a plan. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com and get started. That's Churchill Mortgage Mortgage.com.

[John Deloney]

this is a paid advertisement in MLS. Id 1591nmlscumsumerexess.org Eagle Housing Lender. Buying or selling your home is a huge deal, and with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting nonsensical data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. We're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Last month the average 15 year fixed mortgage rate ticked up a bit to 5.56, but at least it's still below 6%. If you're financially ready, a small rate increase should not hold you back from buying a home, especially since waiting could mean facing higher home prices as the busy season ramps ramps up. Medium home prices went up to $415,000 last month, which is typical for the spring market. With more homes available and more buyers entering the market, it's a great time to buy or sell. To learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the Show Notes. If you're listening on podcast or on the Tubes, let's go out to Los Angeles, California and talk to John. What's up?

[Caller]

J. John hey, how you guys doing?

[John Deloney]

We're doing great, brother. Thanks. Thanks for calling. What's up?

[Caller]

No thanks. I'm just looking for some advice. So I've got a unique situation. My grandmother passed away a few years ago. My dad's mother, he's got a second cousin that kind of contested her will. It took about two years. He spent about $60,000 of his own money. We don't know how much is in her account. And in the end he's now asking. She circumvented him because they don't have a great relationship. So in the end the money's going to end up going to me. And I have a great relationship with my mom. They're still married. But you know, he's telling her to tell me that once I get my money, that I owe him the $60,000. So I bring this up because when it came time for me to go get my master's degree, I was looking at going to the east coast. He convinced me to stay on the west coast. He said, I'll pay for your student loans. He didn't. I paid off the 150k. So like with all this kind of going on and him kind of trying to use my mom to guilt me into paying him back, like, am I obligated to pay him the $60,000 or should I just wipe it out, considering he never came through with paying for my college? How old are you I'm 40.

[John Deloney]

40. How much money are we talking here?

[Caller]

I don't know. That's the thing. It could be a dollar. It could be $300,000. I'm assuming since one of the second cousins tried to contest the will, at the decent amount of money, probably three to 500 grand.

[John Deloney]

Okay, when's the last time? And I'm kind of poking at you, but just know, like, if we were sitting down at a table, I'd be smiling when I'm saying this. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

When's the last time you called your dad and had a grown man conversation? Because here's the deal. This is how kids work. Hey, tell Susie that I've got a crush on Sutton, but don't tell her that, like. And then Sutton tells Susie. Well, John, I don't like. You see what I'm saying? Y' all playing telephone through your poor mom. Y' all are grown men.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, I know. We. We haven't spoken in three years. He got into a fight with my wife, and obviously I chose my wife's side.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. If he wants to be a grown man and call his son and say, hey, I fought this. It's this much money. Here's what I spent on it. It feels right to me that you would come back. And then you said, well, let's have a deeper conversation. You told me you'd pay for this, and then you walked away and I got stuck with 100ft. Have a grownup conversation. Okay, but I'm not gonna play telephone with my dad. I would tell my mom. Mom, I don't wanna hear any more of the pass through. If dad wants to talk to me about money, he can call me like a grownup. And for you, brother, you did the thing. You paid it off.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Every minute you wake up and choose to think about that. Let me ask you this. How many imaginary conversations have you had with your dad over that student loan?

[Caller]

Too many.

[John Deloney]

Exactly. And you always win them. You get this mic drop moment, and he's like, you're right, son. I love you. And he writes you 50. None of that's ever going to happen. Ever.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And so every minute you choose to engage in that is a minute. I mean, is a choice to not have the energy that you could spend on your wife, on your kids, on the life you're living right now. You did the noble right thing. You had a problem with your money, somebody didn't show up for you, and you paid it off. I'm proud of you for that, dude.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[John Deloney]

That's what men do? They step up and solve a problem. I would tell my mom, hey, mom, I, I don't want to have any more pass through conversations. If dad wants to talk about money, he can call me, okay? And free her from that and she can tell him, free yourself from that. And then when it gets to that conversation, man, I, I, I just have a lot more questions than I could, I could answer on you right now. I, if he was choosing to go to war with the second cousin, cuz he's got 70 years of disdain for second cousin or he thought he was in this will and suddenly he didn't find himself in it. Like who knows, man? Right? Who knows how much he actually spent on these bills. He's already proven to he's not trustworthy. So I mean, yeah, I have so many questions here, but I don't, I don't see you under any obligation for anything at any time when it comes to doing anything other than graciously receiving this money and being a good steward of it as your grandmother would have wanted you to.

[Caller]

Okay? Right, I like that.

[John Deloney]

Now if your dad had called you three years ago and said second cousin showed up, I'm going to war for this thing. It's going to expensive. I'm gonna need an agreement from you that I'm gonna spend some money on this thing, but we're gonna win this thing together. I could have seen you going, well, yeah, dude, let's do that. Because it's the right thing to do. He didn't do that.

[Caller]

Right? Yeah.

[John Deloney]

So I just have a lot more questions than I would be will be able to answer in good faith here. But the way y' all are going about it sounds like one of you is nine and one of you is 11, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, I understand.

[John Deloney]

What do you think, Jade?

[Jade Warshaw]

I think that you couldn't have said it better. And I don't think there's much else to say about this and I almost don't want to continue it on because you've already run through this so many times in your brain. I just want to slam the gavel and go, that's it, it's over. You're going to get your inheritance and that's that on that.

[Caller]

Okay. No, I like that I didn't think about it from that perspective either.

[John Deloney]

The one thing I'll you tell tell you and I, I, all of us on this show get grief for this. When I tell somebody who's got a 3.1% mortgage that they got right after Covid and they, they think they're winning life by hanging on to it. Right? I always tell folks, dude, my financial picture, I am not solving for Max Roi. I am simply using money to solve for peace in my life.

[Caller]

Right?

[John Deloney]

And so I use that frame on almost every single thing I. I do. And so in this case, if you get a check for 500,000 bucks and 60 grand gets this person out of your life forever, and you choose to not repay a debt because you don't have one. But if you choose to write a check for a soul tax for you to end this thing, you're not starving, you're left with 440 grand, right? That can be a choice you choose to make. I can guarantee you if you do write that check, he's going to come knocking from.

[Jade Warshaw]

I was going to say, that's not

[John Deloney]

going to be the.

[Jade Warshaw]

The day, end of. Of it. It's not going to be the end of it.

[Caller]

That's been a story of my life.

[John Deloney]

There you go. And so if this has been in. In. You said it. You just said it perfectly. He's been doing this to you your whole life, hadn't he?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. There have been multiple times where he's hit me up for money, paid me back, hit me up for money, paid me back. And then.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's why you need to just put this to rest because it's just drain. It's just a drain.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, I amend my answer. No, I wouldn't give him any money. If he calls you and flies down and you'll have a grown up over like grownup adult male conversation at a diner where y' all shake hands, then so be it. Y' all can come up with a deal there, but short of that, no, you don't owe him any money.

[Caller]

Got it. Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

[John Deloney]

All right, brother. Take care, man. Thanks for being a person of, of high integrity and wanting to get this thing right. That's, that's pretty noble of you, brother. Let's go out to Dallas and talk to Victoria. What's up, Victoria?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[John Deloney]

Oh, I'm right up against the clock, so get right to your question.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. So recently got a good paying job, but I started getting to debt right afterward. I'm getting married. I moved. But my big question is I have about, a little, about $18,000 in debt, but I'm getting a good bonus at

the end of the year.

Do I continue with the debt snowball or do I kind of live normally and then just pay it off at the end of the year?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I'd continue the debt snowball and I'd get as far as you possibly can. Because what if this, what if you pay off the $18,000 before the end of the year and then you just have this sweet bonus sitting there waiting for you. That can be your three to six months of expenses.

[John Deloney]

Okay, now or, or I, I think you need the muscle. I think you need the like nine months of grinding.

[Jade Warshaw]

True that. That's great for the soul. It's great for the confidence.

[John Deloney]

And by the way, Jade and I would not have a job if everybody's bonus always came through at the end of the year like they were promised.

[Caller]

That's true.

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

I wouldn't hold my breath for nothing. This, this show is made up of people who the government's going to pay off everything and they're going to forgive. And the boss said, I'm going to get it and it doesn't work out. Keep doing the same thing you're doing. Pay it off month by month. Practice that muscle. And if you get a bonus check at the end of the year, it's just that, a bonus.

[Caller]

SAM.

[John Deloney]

The Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by why Refi defaulted? Private student loans can leave you feeling stuck and overwhelmed, but why Refi helps you explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate and a payment based on what you can actually afford. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okey dokey. Today's question comes from Alexandra in Oregon. She says, my fiance and I just postponed our wedding for the third time because he is at risk of losing his house again. This is due to him being convict. Hold on, I got to get myself together. This is due to him being convinced the business that he started five years ago is going to be a success, but it has yet to turn a profit. I've asked him to get a full time job so we can get married, but he refuses to give up his dream of being an entrepreneur. Entrepreneur. I'm tired of my life being on hold while he chases success. Should I give him more time or move on? I think you better cut it loose. I think it's time to cut it loose. I, I mean, here's the thing. I'm looking at this and you're writing into a radio show because you're, you've had it. If you take the time to email a radio show, you've had it.

[John Deloney]

That level of desperation.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's desperation. He's postponed the wedding three times now, and he's almost lost his house. Like, there's no security there. Now, here's what I will say. Being an entrepreneur, if you are. If you are truly of the entrepreneurial spirit, you are not going to. Everything is not going to be awesome and everything is not going to be a success. There is going to be ideas that suck, and then there's going to be ideas that are pretty good, and then there's going to be ideas like, yeah, that one was it. Right. So there is part of that where there's a roller coaster to ride. But what I would hope he would be doing is in the meantime working some sort of stable job while he's putting his hand in all those other different things. That's the only. That's. That's the best that you can ask.

[John Deloney]

Entrepreneurship is not a pass on being an idiot.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Right. Or not. It's not a pass on not believing the rules of math apply to you.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Caller]

Right.

[John Deloney]

Or not being a person of character and integrity. Integrity. So as. As the great Dave Ramsey once said. See you later, Felicia. That's what I would say. Yeah. This one's. Yeah. Here's the thing, Alexandra. And this isn't going to give you any more peace. He's already left you. He is married to this fantasy, and he's giving it his time. He's about to give it his home. He's giving it his energy, and he's already left you keep hanging on. And. Because you love him and I admire that about you, but he has moved on. And so I think it's time for you to move on, too. That's our two cents. But we're a couple of radio people who have never met you before, so you do what you want to do. I would be willing to bet 100 bucks you're going to have a fourth wedding on the books within two months. What do you think? Think, Jade?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You're probably. Well, I don't know. If I could hear her voice on the phone, I'd have a better gauge. That's probably true, but I think it's time. Clearly, anybody who's he's continuing to value whatever it is that he's doing at a fail to being able to have success with you over here on the other side.

[John Deloney]

I want. I want someone who's going to marry my daughter to put the energy and obsession that he has in his business into my daughter.

[Jade Warshaw]

Man. Yes.

[John Deloney]

What I want. You want Me to. Like, we need to get a house. Done. You. I need to work three jobs to make something happen. Done. Like we're going to do that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wait, so what you're touching on is something that this. This is about to be a whole discussion. Because it's so true. This is for all of us. Not just old boy who started his business five years ago and wasn't successful, but that's all of us. If you look up and you're putting more intentionality and time, time and effort into anything that's not your family, you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And. And here I think people take that the wrong way. Like, I've been working on a new book project for two years. You just had a book come out? Yeah, my wife and I, like, eight months ago, we went on, like, what I call, like, a final date. Like, we know this is coming, and we've been on dates since then. But, like, we're about to hit wild season. My wife's an author. She wrote in this season. We got two young kids. Like, we've been in it. But the. The anchor point is all of this circles back. Not so dad can get famous. Not so I can get just another book on the shelf. But for us and for people in our local community. Right. People like. And so. But it's anchor starts there. And so there are seasons that are way out of whack and way out of balance. And you and I are on the road.

[Jade Warshaw]

You can do sprints.

[John Deloney]

That's life. But it all anchors back to her. And I sat across the table and said, all right, all hands in. We're about to have this season coming up, and here's what our life's gonna look like on the backside of this.

[Caller]

Right?

[John Deloney]

But, man, you are married to somebody who is having an affair with their job. Or actually, you're the affair. Their love is their job. Their love is their golf game. Their love is their whatever.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[John Deloney]

Their phone, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's a problem. Yeah. Because not you trying to think so strategically about how you're going to get your next raise and how you're going to navigate these relationships, and you're not being that intentional with how you navigate your relationships at home. You're not, you know, you're, like you said, you're focused on your golf game and improving your swing, you know, improving your. Your mile, time, all those things. But you don't put the same thought into your money. You don't put the same thoughts into your relationships. I'm just saying, first things first, you got to put the first things first is all I'm saying.

[John Deloney]

If. If. Here's what I want people listening to do. Go home today. Remember, like, if you went to college, you went. You're in high school. You got to silver. Here's all the books you got to read this semester. Here's when the assignments are due. Here's the homework schedule. Here's all that. I want you to ask your spouse for a syllabus of them. What are five books they love? What are five movies they love? What are five podcasts they're listening to these days? What are five big topics they have? And I want you to spend a couple of months knowing your spouse, learning them again, studying them, talking to them, going to dinner with them and saying, all right, I'm not going to try to debate you. I just want to hear, what do you think about this? What's going on overseas? What do you think about what's going on in politics? I'm not going to. I'm not going to fight at all. I just want to. I just want to learn about you. I listened to this podcast you love. I think it was terrible. Tell me about what you like about it. Yeah, but get to know each other again. And that level of intentionality, man, if I can put that much into the next bass rod I'm going to get or my next hunting spot, and I won't give that to my wife. What kind of husband does that make me?

[Jade Warshaw]

Right?

[John Deloney]

And I've been there for years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because at work, you'll talk to Chad and act like what he's saying is. Is the most exciting thing ever, just so that you look good in front of Chad.

[John Deloney]

And then when you get home, you'll

[Jade Warshaw]

walk out while, like, listen, I should not know Jade.

[Caller]

I'm.

[John Deloney]

No, I'm getting convicted in real time. I should not know the Seymour Duncan P90s that I just put in my Les Paul. I should not know how that all works and not know how my wife likes her coffee.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's so important.

[John Deloney]

I'm telling you, yes, that's more important than this. I should have that stuff, coffee covered in my spirit. I should be paying more attention, making sure she's got coffee in the morning. Making sure, hey, I'm gonna run to the store. I'm gonna go fill her car up with gas on Sunday night. Knowing instead of getting up on money and being like, oh, she didn't put. I can go do that. Yeah, I should do that stuff. You know why? Because I do it for my guitars. I do it for my hunting gear.

[Jade Warshaw]

We all have done it, man. We've all done it. We've all done it.

[John Deloney]

So to reiterate, Alexandra, see you later. Felicia, do we have now we talk. Too long, Jade.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm still on it. You. You close. You wrapped it up too soon. First things first. You know what? Hit me with one of those social questions where.

[John Deloney]

You know what? I already, already already moved them off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Really? I've got one. I've got one from Tik Tok. Okay.

[John Deloney]

You're my favorite place to hang.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, this is great. Okay.

[John Deloney]

Did you know if somebody came to me and said, hey, log into Tik Tok or I'm going to set you on fire?

[Jade Warshaw]

I be on fire right now.

[John Deloney]

Just be like bones. Get it going. Get it going. I don't know how to log in. All right, go for it. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Michael from TikTok says, let's see. We are planning on selling our current home and purchasing a new home within the next few months. Does it make sense to keep attacking the mortgage or should we save money, more money towards the next down payment? You really could do either or I probably would save the money out in cash.

[John Deloney]

That's what I would do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just in case you don't. You don't get from your house what you were expecting to get.

[John Deloney]

Possibly, yeah. And it depends on how much cash you already have for your down payment for your next house. If you're sitting on a couple hundred thousand dollars, then, yeah, keep grinding away at it. But I. If I knew I was gonna put my house on the market in two or three months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Months, yeah.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. I would. I would pay minimums and.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Keep the cash.

[Jade Warshaw]

Keep the cash. I would do the same thing.

[John Deloney]

That's what I would do. Hey, thanks for being with us. We're going to be back for another hour soon right here on the Rams show. Oh, we're still going.

[Jade Warshaw]

We're still going.

[John Deloney]

Joe, I thought you were giving me the. Joe is our fearless.

[Jade Warshaw]

I've got another social question here.

[John Deloney]

Audio engineer. Listen, this is why they don't let me drive. Ladies and gentlemen, Sometimes I run into the media.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm here for you.

[John Deloney]

Love you guys. We'll be back soon. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw. Let's go out to Austin, Texas, the 512 and talk to Mike McMike with. What's up, Mike?

[Caller]

How's it going, guys?

[John Deloney]

Doing all right, brother, what's up?

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my Call. Bit of an odd situation. I received a promotion about two weeks ago from my work.

[John Deloney]

Congratulations.

[Caller]

Thank you. Although they do a truck allowance program versus a company truck program. And so after looking into it and looking at their stipulations of what that vehicle needs to be, I would have to buy something and finance it. And I really don't want to do that. Me and my wife just got out of, just got 100 complete, 100% debt free. And so just don't know how you guys would handle this situation.

[John Deloney]

Is the stipulation reimbursement only or do you have to have a certain truck at a certain mileage and year and the, then they'll, they'll give you a stipend.

[Caller]

Certain truck at a certain mileage in a certain year and then I get a monthly stipend.

[John Deloney]

Okay, you're going to hate my answer, but if, if I'm in your exec's shoes, I would probably begin either a, I'd make the decision. I'm going to waive the stipend and I know that's free money, but my, my freedom is worth more than that or I would save up the money on my own and buy, buy the truck and then take the stipend.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Why can't you be on a elongated timeline? Does it. Do you have to make this decision immediately is what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yeah. So they gave me a 30 day, 30 day time frame to make that decision just because I explained to my district supervisor that, you know, I don't want to go out and finance a truck. And, and in order to be in. So I would just use the current truck I have. Although my current truck, truck that I have now won't pull the big trailers. And it, it's only a half ton versus it needing to be a one ton to get the monthly stipend.

[Jade Warshaw]

So can you even perform the job with your current truck or you cannot.

[Caller]

Short answer no.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's, what does it cost to get a used vehicle?

[John Deloney]

I mean the used. That's the problem. I mean they're asking you to buy an $80,000 truck.

[Caller]

Right. And I'm, I'm looking, I'm looking used. But I mean even a used vehicle is a used truck that would work under 100,000 miles and not older than five years old. I mean, I'm looking at, you know, 40, $50,000 truck.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wait a minute. Not, not to get the truck allowance to actually be able to pull what you need to pull like to act. There's two searches, there's One search that gets you the allowance. The other search is just a vehicle that is able to like physically do what the vehicle has to do, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so my guess is if you did a search on getting a vehicle that just does what it needs to do, that's going to be cheaper than a vehicle that would get you the allowance.

[Caller]

Correct. Okay, here's my way of that. Stipend.

[John Deloney]

You do. How much is the stipend?

[Caller]

25amonth? Yes, sir.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so that's a, that's a significant chunk of change.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[John Deloney]

But I want you to consider what they're doing. They are asking, they're putting that much money on the table for a couple of things. A, they want fancy looking trucks to show up to job sites. They want to look like they are. This is, look at what our guys are doing driving. Right. But they want you, the employee, to carry 100% of the risk because they can be out of pocket two months, they can be out of pocket five grand. You're sitting on a 50 or $60,000 note and then they decide to go a different direction and you're stuck. You see what I'm saying?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. What happens if you leave the job or what happens if you're fired? What happens to the value of the truck at that point? The stipend stops. Right?

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And then in that certain point I would just, I would just sell the vehicle.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. That you might be upside down on or that is lost value or that. Right. So the onus becomes on you for all of this.

[John Deloney]

There's a reason they're paying this much money there. Nobody, no, no business is just like, you know what, let's just throw some money at some guys just for fun. They've done the, they've done the actuarial work here to say let's not have our own fleet and let's not manage our own fleet fleet. Let's transfer all of that depreciation, all the risk onto our employees and we'll just write them a check for.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's not good.

[John Deloney]

So here's the thing. I think you're going to do this anyway. And I, if you're going to do this, then, man, I, I, I would tell you, hey, I wouldn't do this in my own home. And I know that creates a cascade of challenges because you've gotten promoted into a job where they won't give you the tools to do the job they just promoted you to do. They want you to go buy them and nobody making the money that they're Paying. You can actually afford this, so they're going to pay you to make a payment. That. To me, I, I just don't like that arrangement. It makes me uncomfortable because it puts me and my family on the block, and they don't have any skin in this game. But if you are going to do it, man, get the minimum threshold you can get through the door with.

[Caller]

And that's what I was looking at. And would that not matter based on if, If. I mean, outside of our emerg. Our, Our em. I have a sizable amount of money saved up, and if I throw that at it, I won't be upside down. That's kind of the route I was, I was thinking of going on this, and I mean, they've been, this company has been around since the 60s, and, and everybody in this situation has had good luck with it. And the only reason they got rid of fleet vehicles is guys were just, just weren't taking care of it, and it was costing them a lot more money. And now that guys are using their personal trucks, they're taking care of them, and they're lasting a lot longer.

[John Deloney]

I mean, I get their business. I, I, I get their business deal. I mean, what they're doing makes sense to me. I get it. But I, I'm not, I, I'm not on their team. I'm on your team.

[Caller]

Right.

[John Deloney]

And so I, it just feels like a, it feels like a big liability to be hanging on to. But, yeah, I mean, you do you. How much cash do you have saved?

[Caller]

About 28,000.

[John Deloney]

Okay. And how much in your emergency fund?

[Caller]

We've got about 22,000 right now.

[John Deloney]

Okay. Is there a possibility you could dwindle that sucker down to where it's just a few months and you go in and get pretty dang close to paying for this thing in cash?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And use that 2500 bucks to get

[Caller]

the wife on board.

[John Deloney]

But just be militant about paying. Be militant about taking that $2,500 stipend, plus any extra cash I'll have and refilling every, Every cash bucket you got.

[Caller]

Yes. And that's kind of what would be the plan. I mean, if I got to make double or triple payments a month to get it paid off, you know, in, in, in six months, that would 100% be the idea. I mean, the last thing I want is debt. We just spent two years trying to get out of it.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, totally.

[Caller]

I mean, I just, I'm trying to be smart about this, but also, there's something I've been working for for the last 10 years. And I'd really hate to give it up because I, you know, I don't want to go and buy a truck.

[John Deloney]

I get that. But at some point, anybody who says they have a principle, that principle is always going to get checked. Right?

[Caller]

Right.

[John Deloney]

So it's always going to get checked. If I was put in your situation and I didn't have another option, yada yada yada, I would probably. Jay, tell me if I'm wrong. I would dwindle my cash cash down to what I could manage and I'd keep as a cushion in the bank. And then I would be a lunatic about getting that sucker refilled.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'd really, I'd really push for different. I try to get creative. I'd sit down with chat GBT tonight and roll a bunch of different scenarios. Maybe they, maybe you ask for half and you cash flow half. Really get creative and come to them with a lot of solutions. That shows that you care and you want to solve the problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You work way too hard to be broke and feel broke and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every dollar budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen. Starting now. Go download Every dollar in the app store or Google Play and start for free. Today.

[John Deloney]

Let's roll out to Grand Rapids, Michigan and talk to Sky. What up, Sky? How are we doing? Hey, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. So I'm about to graduate college and I have a full time job lined up. But I'm trying to decide whether or not I should live at home and commute the hour and a half both ways each day for a while to kind of help pay off debt or if I should look for an apartment, you know, within like a 10 minute drive.

[Jade Warshaw]

Drive an hour and a half each way.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm from a really rural area

[Jade Warshaw]

so like, so we're saying three hours a day. Three hours a day.

[John Deloney]

How much? Hold on. How much debt you got?

[Jade Warshaw]

Neva?

[Caller]

I'm, I'm gonna graduate with about 15,000 in loans. So it's not like terrible.

[John Deloney]

Now get an apartment. If you told me you were going to be 50 or 100 grand, I might touch you. Three hours a day is the price you pay for a year. But man, 15 grand, you'll have that knocked out in no time.

[Caller]

Right, okay. I mean, yeah, that's what I was kind of thinking, but I just didn't know if it was worth it to drive for a while to just kind of get it paid off as soon as possible.

[John Deloney]

Well, think about this. Three hours times five, that's 15 hours. You could probably.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think it's going to make you hate the work that you do.

[John Deloney]

It's going to hate your life.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's just a bad, you're, you're graduating, you're entering into your field. It's a bad add entrance into your field because you'll start to have resentment over showing up to work every single day. Okay, I think have you run it out and said, okay, if I do this, how long will it take me?

[Caller]

Not really because it's not, I'm not going like it's not great paying but

[Jade Warshaw]

what's the pay for the job?

[Caller]

So it's 1945, an hour before taxes, full time. It is in the events industry, so there are probably be some overtime associated with that.

[John Deloney]

You, you would have to make a commitment to yourself. I'm going to work. Here's. Let's, let's change it and say it this way. The next two years of your life should be pretty tough.

[Caller]

Okay?

[John Deloney]

Pretty miserable. You can share that. You can have that misery in the car, driving back and forth to, to your mom and dad's house, still having to abide by their curfew and not being able to date anyone cuz y' all live out in on a farm. Or it could be pretty miserable, pretty tough grinding. But you're taking every possible job in your industry and in your space and getting to know people and shake hands and hang out with people your age and getting as much exposure as you possibly can because you're going to get this debt paid off in 12 months or less and then you're going to spend the next year grinding and getting an emergency fund, right? So if you think of it that way, you're going to, you're going to spend this time time working and you're going to spend this time like grinding. I would rather do that and look up and be 24, 25 years old, have put two or three long hour days, two or three years worth of long Hour days towards the job industry I want to be a part of, then driving back and forth to my parents house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, okay, yes. 100. Because at least if you move closer to, to work, when you're done with work, you can easily get to your next job because it's right there in town.

[Caller]

Right.

[John Deloney]

Oh, I didn't think about that.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know what I'm saying? You can do more actual work.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because you're in town. So it's like, oh, okay, I get off my job here. Now I'm gonna head over to the, the place where I bartend or I'm gonna head over to, you know, where I work at Nike town or whatever it is that you do on the side. Whereas if you're out in the boonies, you've wasted three hours a day, you can't get back, you can't get it back and there's nothing else out there to do.

[Caller]

Yeah, sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

Except shoot rabbits. What do you guys do out there?

[Caller]

Something like that.

[John Deloney]

Something like, something like that. Yeah. So that, that's what, that's what we would do. Congratulations on graduating and get that debt paid off ASAP. And just, just know if you're 21 and you're graduating two years, that's not enough. The next five, seven, eight years of your life, just know I'm going to, to get after it. Jay. The life I live right now is based on I was pretty unhealthy, but working like a mad person. 20 year old John.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah, yep.

[John Deloney]

Saying yes to every opportunity, every speaking engagement, every degree opportunity, everybody. All of those skills I learned along the way give me the life I have now.

[Jade Warshaw]

The 20s are for scratching and clawing for everything that is, that is the definition of that day decade is you scratch, you claw, you're tired, you work some more, you fail a little bit, you work some more. Like that is the twenties.

[John Deloney]

Like Arthur Brooks, the great Arthur Brooks. He, he said this recently, our culture has flipped and we so over index for our 20s and 30s and we under index for our 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s and 90s. And the fun I thought I would be having in my 20s, dude, now that I can have that kind of fun in my 40s because you got some money, I got money. I got time. Time. I got my own car and it starts every time I turn it off.

[Caller]

Right?

[Jade Warshaw]

I know, I know.

[John Deloney]

I have an amazing wife. Like it. Like it. I never would have dreamed it was this awesome.

[Jade Warshaw]

I, I couldn't agree more. I literally had this conversation with Sam Warshaw. I Was like, man, Everybody thinks, like, 20s are, like, the glory years, or like, back when I was younger, like, no glory days. And I'm like, no, in your 20s. First off, half of us aren't even married yet. So we're out here just trying to survive that whole situation. And then you got no money. You don't have any respect on your name and your career. Like, it's just when I look back on it, I go, actually, the 20s are kind of trash.

[John Deloney]

Like, my 40s. I'm going to the same shows in the same mosh pits. I'm just able to.

[Jade Warshaw]

You can afford the good T shirts.

[John Deloney]

I get the T shirt, too. Yeah, yeah. I don't have to sneak onto the floor. I can pay for the four seats.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, man. I mean, that truer words have never been spoken, and it's so true. Just know it's necessary. Like, 20s are building years, and it's so necessary to just let it, like, let the build begin.

[John Deloney]

Grind it, grind it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Embrace it for what it is.

[John Deloney]

All right, let's go out to Brandon in Pittsburgh. Let's see here. Where are we at? Right here, Brandon. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi. So I. I have kind of a big, big thing.

[John Deloney]

Let it rip.

[Caller]

All right. So I'm. I'm a truck driver. I make about 3200bi weekly. My wife works for the store. She's a manager there. She gets about 1700 bi weekly. I have a mortgage payment, about 1200 bucks per month and a pickup truck payment for 800amonth. My wife covers utilities. She has her own car payment for 700amonth. I owe about 35,000 for my car. She owes 41,000. I have 120,000 on the house and credit card debt of $3,600 and a wedding loan, that's $15,000. And I'm slowly paying off my credit card debt, and I'd like to start paying off the wedding loan faster, too, and building the savings. So now my question is, I have no clue how to build wealth. I am numerically illiterate. Don't know where to start.

[John Deloney]

Came to the right place, brother.

[Jade Warshaw]

You did perfect. And you had your numbers listed down and read. I couldn't even keep up writing it all fast enough. So all I heard was you got

[John Deloney]

$1500 in car payments between you and your wife.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. That's a lot.

[Caller]

Yes, it's a lot. And for her. Yeah, I. I commute back and forth to.

[John Deloney]

You can do that on a. Go ahead, dude. Like, not really. But you know what?

[Caller]

I Mean you don't expensive, even used car pay. Like my first car when I was in high school, seventeen hundred dollars. It's like six thousand now, which I could go ahead and trade in my truck for one. But yes, we're doing a truck either.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let me get back, let me get back to the, the question at hand because we don't have a lot of time and I want to answer your question. The, the, the crux of your question first because this is going to inform everything I say next. You asked, I don't, I don't know the first thing about building wealth and the first thing about building wealth is you've got to get control of your income. Dave Ramsey would say your biggest wealth building tool is your income and you've got a decent one. I think combined you guys are at like 9200amonth. A month. Is that about right?

[Caller]

About right, Yep.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that's a decent income. The problem is it's going out the door, you said it yourself, to debt payments every single month, whether it be the pickup truck, the car, the, the, the, the wedding loan, the credit cards. So the way we, we get our, our income back in our hands and back in our control is we have to, have to, have to pay off the debt. And that's the part that nobody likes to do. Over here we teach a series of seven baby steps. And the second baby step, baby step two is the one that's about paying off debt. And everybody hates it because it's, it requires, you know, discipline, it takes a while, all of that. But I really, really want you to embrace it because it's the only way to get free. Before we get off the line, we're going to send you every dollar, we're going to send you the book, the Total Money Makeover, and we're going to set you up with Financial Peace University, all of those things walk you through our seven baby step system. It's a plan for your life and it has to do with you taking these debts, lining them up, smallest to largest, paying minimum payments on all of them, but throwing all of your extra money every single month at that smallest debt. That's the main part. That's the first thing that you really have to get your head around. But all the resources that we sent you are going to teach you how to budget so that you can do that. It's going to teach you how to say no to debt because we don't do debt anymore. All of this is going to set you up for that win, my brother.

[John Deloney]

I can't wait and chances are the cars are going to go. Hang on the line. We'll get you hooked up.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Rams Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

[John Deloney]

The right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet if disaster strikes. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps. Go to ramseysolutions.com checkup to take the coverage checkup and find out if you have the protection protection you need. Let's go out to New York and talk to a pro. What line is April on? April is online 4. What's up, April?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm 65. I'll be 65 years old this year and I didn't start working until I was about 63. I am wondering will I be able to catch up to be able to retire and what things can I do to build retirement money for.

[John Deloney]

Well, thanks for calling. Tell me about your life.

[Caller]

Well, I, I work 40 hour week. I make about a little over $22 an hour. I'm debt free. I own everything, my home, my vehicles, I pay cash for everything.

[John Deloney]

Why did you start working at 63?

[Caller]

Well, I been a housewife pretty much since I was 16 years old and through series of marriages and divorces, I haven't been the last husband I wasn't with long enough to be able to get any part of his retirement. So being divorced, I had to figure it out on my own. So I've got about 85 to 85,000 that I have saved up over the course of time and most of that I'd say about 53,000 is in savings. I'm not sure if I should just be leaving it in my savings or if I should be trying to put it somewhere. I know I get these Social Security statements every so many months a year and I'm looking at, you know, maybe $600 a month if I'm lucky.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. Okay. So of the 85,000 you said some of it's separated. Where's the other portion of it.

[Caller]

The rest of it's in the checking account.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

So 53 alone in the savings.

[Jade Warshaw]

What I would do is I'd probably put six months of expenses in a high yield savings account. Could we say maybe 20, 25,000 and put that in a high yield savings savings.

[Caller]

And when you say high yield savings, what does that exactly mean?

[Jade Warshaw]

It's a, it's a, it's a form of a savings account that has a slightly higher compounding interest rate. Just a slightly higher interest rate. That's it.

[Caller]

Okay. Because my, My bank is 5%. I'm not sure if.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, 5%.

[John Deloney]

If you get 5%, you're fine. Do a somersault and leave your money there.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Don't move it. But I would, I would move the other 50,000 thousand and I would invest that.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I would get with a Smartvestor Pro which will give you the information on that. You can go on ramseysolutions.com or you can go and ask Ramsey and say, I need a Smartvestor Pro. And that person is going to sit down with you and they're going to help you and teach you about the best ways to invest your money.

[Caller]

I did start a 401k in October.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, great, great.

[Caller]

And so there's only about 2400 in that. I mean, I don't know if I'm supposed to be, you know, I know you're supposed to do something with it at 73 years old, but I was really hoping not to have to work that long.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, that's true, but you may have to.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, you will be.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you can invest the 50,000 into a Roth IRA over time and you can put some of it in a brokerage account. You can put some of it. So the Smartvestor Pro is going to help you decide all the best places to invest that money. But I want that working for you in the market. I don't want it just sitting in an account because if you invest it, hopefully you're going to get somewhere between a 10 to 11% in return is what we're hoping for. So, so that's thing one, thing two is what are you bringing home every month? Around 3,500

[Caller]

in that neighborhood? Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And of that money, how much would you say is extra? We would call it margin. Should be quite a bit because you have no debt.

[Caller]

Well, anything that I have extra, I've, I've been putting into the 401k.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. That's good. That's good.

[Caller]

Yeah, I've already got it taken out at work.

[Jade Warshaw]

But I want to know beyond that, how much, how much margin do you have? And again, margin is extra. So when your check comes home, how much is left that you just say, okay, what am I going to do with this money? I get to choose.

[Caller]

Probably somewhere around $1000. 1500 to 1000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So I would challenge you that most much of that money needs to be invested.

[John Deloney]

Almost all of it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because I don't know what percentage you're investing now, do you? What percentage of your. Of your gross income?

[Caller]

I think it's. I think it's 15%.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Since your home is paid off, you get to invest as much as you want, which is awesome.

[Caller]

I didn't know that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Because you don't have anything else to pay to pay for. So if I were you, I'd be taking that 1500 and I'd be looking at going. Okay, let you know, aside from me maybe going to the movies every once in a while or, you know, maybe I go to. To dinner with a friend or whatever, I'd be investing much of that fifteen hundred dollars. As much as you can.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because that's going to be the thing that breaks you free in all of this.

[Caller]

All right, that sounds good.

[John Deloney]

In April, I'm telling you this, and I would tell my mom, My mom's older than you, but I would tell her this exact thing if she woke up in Your situation is 6. 63. Every penny is going to count when it comes to getting money into savings.

[Caller]

All right.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yes.

I, I have a scarcity mindset, so I don't spend any more than I have to. And I just, I know I'm not anywhere near where I should be, though.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

You know, because of the late start.

[John Deloney]

Right. And I would make peace with. I mean, chances are. I mean, the chances high, you'll be working well past 70. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because let me do some quick math for you. So let's just pretend you're 65. Now, let's say we do this until age 75. Do you think you can work till 75?

[Caller]

Sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, what's your health?

[Caller]

Why not?

[Jade Warshaw]

It depends on the nature of what you do and what your health is.

[Caller]

Right.

Oh, I work very hard. I'm running back and forth and running up and down stairs and.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, you tell me. What, what do you think? So a realistic time frame that you would be working? Because I want to plug these numbers in for you. 72.

[Caller]

Okay. Well, we'll say, okay, let's go with 72.

[Jade Warshaw]

72. Does that sound good? Okay, so let's say 65 to 72. Let's say you put $2,000, you contribute that every single month, that is going to leave you with $250,000 per.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So that gives you a little something

[Caller]

better than I thought.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it does. But then the next thing I'm wondering about is once you are down to 600 or whatever your Social Security will allow, if you find that it's really, really tight for you, you need to be looking at number one, I want you to call us back. But number two, remember, you've got, I'm guessing, a pretty decent home that you're sitting on. What's your home worth?

[Caller]

Probably about 185 on the low side.

[Jade Warshaw]

185. Where do you live?

[John Deloney]

Oh, you're in New York, in New York city. You have $185,000 house.

[Jade Warshaw]

How did that happen?

[Caller]

It, it's, it's actually central New York,

[John Deloney]

but still, you can't sneeze in New York for 180 grand, can you?

[Jade Warshaw]

It's worth 185 now with the gas

[Caller]

prices they have now.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, well, you foiled my plan. I was going to say if you have, if you have, have some decent, you know, value in your home, you might be able to sell that and get something smaller that you pay cash for. But I don't know if you can get much smaller than 185.

[John Deloney]

No, you've, you've kind of won the housing lottery these days with 185.

[Caller]

Well, actually, my plan is to sell this house and hopefully move to Tennessee, but I gotta crunch the numbers.

[John Deloney]

Well, we don't have a state income tax. I don't know what you're gonna do with all that extra money that New York takes out of your paycheck. You'll have to figure out what to do with that. But yeah, you, I mean, I don't know where you'd find a place to live. 180 grand in Nashville in Tennessee.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think your, I think your best bet is doing your best to save any and every bit of money that you can. And honestly, while you feel good, if you've got the energy to run up and down steps and do all this, I'd be looking for even more work that I can pick up. All right, because the more you work,

[Caller]

maybe I can get some overtime.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yep, the more you work, the better the situation bodes for you.

[John Deloney]

Or get a job sitting down like at, at a, at one of the beautiful hotels in New York or doing anything right. But yeah, you're going to have a busy, busy, busy next 10 to 15 years. But we believe in you. And thanks for, thanks for giving us a call and thanks for being on top of things, man, as you get going. Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home? It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in depth

[Jade Warshaw]

video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

[John Deloney]

So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com realestate that's ramseysolutions.com.com realestate. Today's scripture of the day is Isaiah 55. 2. Why do you spend money for what is not bread and your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to me and eat what is good and let your soul delight itself in abundance. Zig Ziglar says money isn't the most important thing in life, but it's reasonably close to oxygen on the gotta have it scale.

[Jade Warshaw]

He's not wrong. Neither are wrong. They're Both right.

[John Deloney]

To St. Louis, Missouri. Talk to Austin. What's up up, Austin?

[Caller]

Hey, how you guys doing?

[John Deloney]

We're doing good, brother. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, first off, thank you guys for taking my call. So something that's been on my mind lately. I recently, you know, last year I started listening to you guys a show and it really opened my eyes up to a lot of things. And I've been kind of irresponsible with my, with my money and now I'm $50,000 kind of debt. Well, also, I'm maxing up my 401k and that's actually why I called you guys, for my uncle. For the past two years, I've been dumping my money into a 2065 Target retirement fund because I never knew what to do. But he told me I need to be investing in either a Vanguard 500s and P or a Fidelity 500s and P. And he said, don't touch that until, until you're 55. And you know, that's all fine and dandy, but I just didn't want to get to 55 then be like, oh, where did all my money go? And, you know, I just. I want to set myself up for the best. So I didn't know what you guys had to say about that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I was a little confused when you said that when you got to 55, you'd be wondering where your money went. It'd be sitting in the investment that you put it in.

[Caller]

Well, yeah, I just don't. I know. He told me. I never knew anything about the stock market or anything, but he says I just investing into the stock market.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you're saying you're just doing what, what he said?

[Caller]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

You don't know really what you're investing, what to do. Gotcha.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

I'm glad you called, brother.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much is in there right now? Have you looked at it?

[Caller]

So when I started doing it about a month ago, I had, you know, $12,000 in that target. Well, in this past month, I looked and it's jumped about $3,500. So 155 right now.

[John Deloney]

Can I tell you what my mutual fund holding is right now?

[Caller]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

I have no idea. And I'll tell you. I'm gonna tell you why. I do look at it once a year, but I don't know what it is right now. You know why? Because I'm not ever gonna pull it out until it's time for me to retire, okay? And if you watch this account like a stock ticker, you're gonna make yourself nuts, okay?

[Caller]

That's one of my parents tell me

[John Deloney]

all the time you're gonna make yourself watch.

[Caller]

I like to watch my money.

[John Deloney]

But you're not going to like it when the economy has a downturn. And there's 100% chance it will have downturns over the course of your life between now and 55. And it'll make you insane. It'll make you feel. It'll make you feel powerful when it shouldn't, It'll make you feel secure when it shouldn't, and it will make you feel devastated when it shouldn't. And so when you put money in a retirement account, the goal is to not take it out until it's time to retire. And so watching it every. You're 23 years old, brother.

[Caller]

Your.

[John Deloney]

Your rods and cones are going to fall out of your eyes if you watch it that close over the next 30 years, okay? And so I do check it. I do pay attention to it. I have a smartvestor pro that I work with, but, man, I just don't watch it on a week by week, month by month basis. Because I know I'm an anxious guy. I know I can get really up when things are up and really down when things are down. And you set it on a roller coaster, man, it's going to go up and it's going to go down. And if the last hundred years is any indication, it will. It will eventually tick and, and move its way up, but let it do its thing. Okay?

[Caller]

Okay. And one last thing.

[John Deloney]

Hold on. Jay's gonna walk you through the. Some more details here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, great. I just want to make sure. And this is something I would check on because this is. We might need this for your debt. Just double check and see where it's housed. If it's housed inside of a Roth ira, if it's housed inside, inside of a. Anything that is a retirement account, maybe a traditional ira, you can't touch it. But if it's just sitting there in a brokerage account, you can. And we would use it for debt because at that point it's. There's not going to be a penalty if you were to remove it. But just double check that, because if it's just sitting there in a brokerage account, that's great. That's money that's up for grabs and

[John Deloney]

you can cash out to pay off this $50,000 hole you're in.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, exactly. So you've got $50,000 in debt. What kind of debt debt is that?

[Caller]

Well, 5,000 of it is in credit cards. Because I was, like I said I was stupid with my money, but about a week before I started listening to you guys show, I went out and bought a brand new truck.

[John Deloney]

Okay, that's way stupider than the credit cards.

[Jade Warshaw]

45?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's 45.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's it worth?

[Caller]

Well, brand new off the lot right now, it's probably worth around 30.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, no, no. If you turned around to sell you your car today, you'd only get 30 for it.

[Caller]

That's just what Kelly Blue Book says.

[Jade Warshaw]

What about private sale?

[John Deloney]

Private sale.

[Caller]

I could probably get around 37 for it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, 37. So your goal, your goal is to figure out, like, how are we going to get another $8,000 to clear this debt? And not only that, but how can I get another, I don't know, 10,000 thousand or another 8,000 that I'm gonna get kind of like a junker truck that I'm gonna drive around for a little while, and it's gonna remind me that I'm never gonna go into debt again because it sucks to drive an $8,000 truck. You know what I'm saying, so what I would do if I were in your shoes, because what I did here, the $8,000 clears you from being upside down. That way you can sell a car, get the title, transfer, all of that, and then another $8,000 gets you on a ride. That $16,000 thousand dollars. $16,000 is a lot better than paying off $45,000. Am I right?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So I'd go down to the credit union, I go down to the bank, or, you know, whatever you can do to get this money and get it on the best terms possible. And that becomes your new payment, that you're paying off the $16,000 loan instead of the $45,000 car. And that for anybody who's listening to this call right now, if you're a person who finds. Finds yourself upside down, that's how you get out of it. And you might think, I can't believe you would tell him to go pick up debt. But we're lowering the debt. We're going down in payment. So that's thing one. And in the meantime, while you're negotiating that transaction and you're finding a buyer and you're getting that personal loan, the next thing I want you to do is work so hard on paying off this $5,000 in credit card debt. And you're going to do that by picking up extra jobs and side hustling? Yes.

[Caller]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So that's like the nuts and bolts of how we're going to pay off this debt. But I want to run it back because. Because two things that I want to cover with you that are tantamount to this entire thing taking place and actually working is you've got to do two things today. And if you don't do these two things, nothing that I tell you is going to work. Okay?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

So if you have something to write with, write this down. Number one, today you have to go into the nearest mirror, Windex it off, so you can see yourself very clearly in it and look in your own eyes and take tell yourself, I'm never borrowing money again. I'm not a person who borrows money.

[Caller]

Yeah, I can do that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because you can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. So if you keep paying off debt and then borrowing more debt, you're just going to be a dog chasing its tail. So you look at yourself. I'm not borrowing money. The second thing you do today, you got to download a budget. We'll give you every dollar, which is the best budgeting app out there. It's not just a budgeting app. It also has our own plan for how you're going to do all this. You got to download every dollar and that is going to become your new BFF in your pocket because it's on your phone.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Jade Warshaw]

That's it. And if you can do those two things, you're going to be able to walk out the rest of this, no problem.

[John Deloney]

Do you have the courage to sell your truck and just get done with this thing?

[Caller]

Yes. I. I didn't know if I should pay it down to where. Where, you know, I'm not upside down and then get rid of it or should I just get rid of it now?

[Jade Warshaw]

I think you should get rid of it now because it's going to free up the money that you need to quickly pay off this credit card. And I think every day that you wait, it's going to go down in value.

[John Deloney]

It's going to depreciate. Do you know what that means?

[Caller]

Yeah, it means loses value.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, it loses value every minute you drive it.

[Jade Warshaw]

And also, I think. I don't know, but I feel like the summertime could be a nice time to buy a truck. I don't know, maybe, you know, you put it out. I'm just saying if you're selling something, private sale, it's a lot nicer to roll up in the summertime when the num. When the weather's nice versus in the winter when it's covered in snow and it's dirty from the ice and all that stuff. I just made that up. But I'm just saying that could be good. But let me go back and teach you a little bit about the budget. You need the budget. The budget is a plan for your money. It's where you're going to fill in your income and your expenses and you're going to tell everybody dollar what to do. That's the whole point. So if you make $5,000 a month, you're going to assign $5,000 an assignment.

[John Deloney]

That's it for the Ramsey show today. Thanks for being with us. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.