Take Control Of Your Money Before It Takes Control Of You

Summary

Summary of "The Ramsey Show" Episode: "Take Control Of Your Money Before It Takes Control Of You"

Release Date: August 13, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: Dr. John DeLoney, PhD in Counseling

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and his co-host, Dr. John DeLoney, tackle a variety of financial challenges presented by listeners. From debt management and budgeting to estate planning and career transitions, the experts provide actionable advice to help individuals regain control over their finances and build wealth.

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Caller 1: Balancing Work and Family Time

Caller Profile:

• Location: Long Island
• Situation: Married with two kids, working two jobs (70-75 hours/week)
• Financial Status: On Baby Step 6, aiming to pay off the house early

Key Discussion Points:

• Work-Life Balance: The caller questions whether to maintain a second job to expedite paying off the mortgage.

  Dave Ramsey [01:16]: "We don't recommend 80 hours a week when you're on baby steps four, five, and six."

• Advice Given:

  • Reduce working hours to around 60 per week to prevent burnout.
  • Emphasize spending quality time with family over excessive work hours.
  • Continue debt repayment with a more sustainable work schedule.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [02:22]: "When you cut back to 60 hours, you feel like you're on vacation."

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Caller 2: Starting Baby Steps and Debt Snowball Misalignment

Caller Profile:

• Location: St. Louis
• Situation: Recently started Baby Step plan with husband
• Financial Status:
  • Debts: $17,000 student loan, $24,000 minivan loan, $56,000 husband’s student loans
  • Assets: $10,000 high-yield savings, $12,000 checking

Key Discussion Points:

• Debt Snowball Strategy Misapplication: The couple listed debts by category instead of smallest to largest balance.

  Co-Host [04:33]: "We were doing things backwards."

• Advice Given:

  • Reorganize debts from smallest to largest regardless of interest rates.
  • Focus extra payments on the smallest debt to gain momentum and build confidence.
  • Temporarily halt contributions to retirement accounts and college savings to prioritize debt repayment.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [05:02]: "We list them by the loan balance, not by category."

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Caller 3: Adjusting Wills for Adult Children’s Behavior

Caller Profile:

• Location: Unspecified
• Situation: Considering modifying the will to reduce inheritance for an adult son with financial irresponsibility and lifestyle concerns
• Financial Status: Not directly discussed

Key Discussion Points:

• Will Adjustments: Whether it’s appropriate to alter inheritance based on children’s behavior and life choices.

  Dave Ramsey [11:07]: "Yes, it's totally appropriate."

• Advice Given:

  • Communicate intentions clearly with all beneficiaries to prevent resentment and relationship strain.
  • Focus on ethical and moral alignment rather than punishment.
  • Approach the conversation with empathy and openness to future changes if the child’s behavior improves.

Notable Quotes:

• Co-Host [12:03]: "Otherwise you're going to destroy his relationship."

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Caller 4: Protecting a Fully Paid Home as a Self-Employed Individual

Caller Profile:

• Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
• Situation: Self-employed, concerns about protecting the home from potential lawsuits
• Financial Status:
  • Assets: $75,000 savings
  • Debts: Paid off mortgage

Key Discussion Points:

• Asset Protection: Strategies to safeguard the home from business liabilities.

  Dave Ramsey [19:00]: "The business needs to be an LLC because that's your biggest source of liability."

• Advice Given:

  • Establish an LLC to separate personal and business assets.
  • Consider placing the home in an LLC or trust for additional protection.
  • Maintain separation between personal and business finances to minimize risk.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [19:00]: "If you want to sue me, you just have at it. I don't own anything."

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Caller 5: Managing Debt and Budgeting for a Family

Caller Profile:

• Location: Minnesota
• Situation: Married with two kids, struggling with fluctuating income and debt
• Financial Status:
  • Debts: $8,500 personal loan, $9,500 credit cards, $20,000 vehicle loans, $21,000 student loans
  • Income: $60,000 from jobs + $15,000 from business

Key Discussion Points:

• Debt Repayment and Budgeting: Difficulty in sustaining debt repayment due to inconsistent income.

  Dave Ramsey [26:29]: "You have to get around in front of the money instead of behind it."

• Advice Given:

  • Implement a strict budgeting system using the EveryDollar app.
  • Identify and eliminate spending leaks to free up funds for debt repayment.
  • Prioritize debts using the debt snowball method to gain quick wins and build momentum.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John DeLoney [22:11]: "Whenever we try to get ahead, something comes up."

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Advertisement Breaks

The episode includes several advertisements promoting services such as Churchill Mortgage, BetterHelp, and Zander Insurance. These segments are informational but are not part of the core financial discussions.

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General Financial Advice and Insights

Emergency Funds:

• Caller’s Question: When to use an emergency fund versus other savings for unexpected expenses.

  Dave Ramsey [45:07]: "What's the point of an emergency fund? To use it for unexpected expenses."

• Advice Given:

  • Utilize emergency funds strictly for true emergencies.
  • Replenish emergency savings immediately after use to maintain financial security.

Life Insurance and Wills:

• Importance of Life Insurance:

  Co-Host [31:08]: "If you're thinking about starting therapy, contact BetterHelp."

• Estate Planning:

  Dave Ramsey [106:42]: "Half of Americans die without a will. That's 70% of you. That's dumb."

• Advice Given:

  • Secure adequate life insurance to protect family’s financial future.
  • Create and update wills to ensure assets are distributed according to wishes and to prevent family disputes.

Debt-Free Living:

• Mortgage Repayment:

  Dave Ramsey [83:04]: "Pay off your mortgage today."

• Advice Given:

  • Prioritize paying off mortgages early to eliminate interest payments and reduce financial stress.
  • Recognize the psychological and financial benefits of owning a home outright.

Budgeting and Spending:

• EveryDollar Budgeting:

  Dave Ramsey [28:48]: "A budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went."

• Advice Given:

  • Adopt proactive budgeting to allocate every dollar effectively.
  • Use budgeting tools to track expenses and identify areas for savings.

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Caller 6: Career Transition and Financial Security

Caller Profile:

• Location: Unspecified
• Situation: Nearing completion of a master’s degree in Counseling, considering transitioning to a 1099 position
• Financial Status:
  • Income: $3,000/month currently
  • Debts: $30,000 student loans

Key Discussion Points:

• Career Change Anxiety: Concerns about leaving a stable job for a self-employed role with variable income.

  Dave Ramsey [119:27]: "Don't sell yourself short."

• Advice Given:

  • Assess potential income increases against current stability.
  • Explore options for career growth and higher-paying opportunities before transitioning.
  • Utilize retirement accounts and investment strategies to compensate for the loss of employer-sponsored benefits.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [120:43]: "Don't sell yourself short."

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Caller 7: Post-Tragedy Financial Management

Caller Profile:

• Location: Unspecified
• Situation: Recently lost a child, purchased a new home amidst grief
• Financial Status:
  • Debts: $19,000 (student loans and car)
  • Income: Variable due to recent tragedy

Key Discussion Points:

• Financial Strain After Loss: Managing increased expenses and debt following the loss of a child.

  Dave Ramsey [100:34]: "If this occurs 10 years from today, the lower your expenses are and the higher your nest egg is, the easier the process is going to be financially."

• Advice Given:

  • Prioritize necessary expenses and debt repayment even in times of emotional distress.
  • Seek support through counseling to address both financial and emotional challenges.
  • Consider selling non-essential assets to alleviate financial burdens.

Notable Quotes:

• Co-Host [101:38]: "It's okay to not be all right."

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney emphasize the importance of disciplined budgeting, strategic debt repayment, and proactive financial planning. Whether dealing with excessive work hours, modifying wills, protecting assets, or navigating personal loss, the experts provide clear, actionable advice aimed at fostering financial stability and peace of mind.

Final Thoughts: Dave Ramsey reiterates the show's core message that financial peace comes from taking control of one's finances, eliminating debt, and making informed, strategic decisions. By following the Baby Steps and utilizing available resources, listeners are encouraged to build lasting wealth and harmonious relationships.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [28:48]: "A budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went."
• Co-Host [31:08]: "The only way this changes is if you sit down and start making your expenses align with your values."
• Dave Ramsey [83:04]: "Pay off your mortgage today."

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This structured summary captures the essence of the episode, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of the financial topics discussed and the expert advice offered.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show. Where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John DeLoney Ramsey personality number one best selling author and host of the super popular Dr. John DeLoney show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co host today, PhD in counseling. So if you need some. He's here. Phone numbers, telephone [phone]. Matt is in Long Island. Hey, Matt, what's up?

[John DeLoney]

Hey, how you doing, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

Okay, so I currently work about 70 to 75 hours a week between two jobs, married with two kids, and I'm on baby step number six. I wanted to know if it would be wise to stop working my second job and kind of spend a little bit more time with my family.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

Rather than trying to pay my house off early.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't. We don't recommend 80 hours a week. When you're on baby steps four, five and six, when you're on two and you're getting out of debt and three, you're trying to build your emergency fund. Yeah. You pour the coals on you, burn the men out of oil, you kick butt. You take six jobs and sell so much stuff, the kids think they're next and all that. Right. But then when you move from baby step, when you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund and you move into 4, 5 and 6, which is safe for retirement kids, college, and pay off your house, you move from intense to intentional.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so intentional is not 80 hours a week as a pattern. I wouldn't do that as an ongoing thing. You'll hit the wall because there's those three baby steps take, you know, typically six, seven years. And so how much do you owe in your house today?

[Caller]

About 350,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's gonna be a while, so. Yeah, I would relax a little. I mean, if you cut back to 60 hours, you feel like you're on vacation.

[Caller]

When I. Exactly. When I don't work the second job, I don't know what to do with all the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're going to spend it with your kids. Not on Netflix and not on Instagram. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Hey, and dude, expect that to feel a little bit itchy.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Like nobody tells us as parents. And I love my kids more than life itself, but sometimes it can get boring and the next deal can feel Like a little bit of a rush, right? Or the next email to an employee that's bugging you can feel like a rush. Just expect to get a little bit itchy when you cut 20 hours out of your week and you sitting around a table, like, drawing pictures of dragons again or whatever, or throwing the same Frisbee, it can feel a little bit boring. But, man, that time you don't get back and it becomes magical over time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's worth it. It's worth that investment. You want to make deposits into that account. MacKenzie's in St. Louis. Hi, MacKenzie, how are you?

[John DeLoney]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help you?

[John DeLoney]

So I am calling. Me and my husband just agreed to start on the baby steps about two days ago. And we have AC and furnace that needs replaced that we know is coming up soon. That costs about $11,000. We currently have about 10,000 in our high yield savings and about 12 in our checking. But we have our. The first loan that we're going to go at with our debt is a student loan. That's about 17 or 18,000 left on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's your smallest debt?

[Caller]

I don't know.

[John DeLoney]

Correct. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt do you have?

[John DeLoney]

We've got about 99. That's not our house. And then about 185 left on our house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And 17 is a student loan of the 99. What's the rest of the 99?

[John DeLoney]

So those are my husband's student loans of 56. And then we have a minivan that has 24 left on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's the second one. And then. So 17, 24, 56 is your order of attack, right?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Co-host]

Are those broken up into a bunch of smaller little loans that you've added together, or did you already consolidate them?

[Caller]

Yeah, no, that's all of them together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then we wouldn't. We don't list. We list them. We list them by the loan balance, not by category. So 17,000 is not. 17,000 is not your smallest debt, then.

[Caller]

Oh, okay.

[John DeLoney]

So our. Okay, our highest interest.

[Co-host]

Nope, forget about interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Interest rate doesn't matter. All we're doing is listing the debts, smallest to largest, regardless of interest rate, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and attack the little one. So how many student loans make up the 17?

[John DeLoney]

I think he has about four or five.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how many student loans make up the 56?

[John DeLoney]

That's like seven or eight of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's gonna be. So the car is gonna end up being last probably yeah. Which would be normal. So we're going to plow.

[John DeLoney]

We were going to do his student loans and then the van, because those are both about 400amonth. So that would open 800.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you know. Okay. If you want to work your system, you can. Okay. I'm telling you how to work hours.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I mean, it's up to you. You get to do what you want to do, but the way you work hours is, is you work at smallest to largest, regardless of interest rate or payment amount. And that system is actually proven because the completion rate of people who start that system is very high. And the reason is they get positive feedback as they knock off those smallest debts in the early stages. Because right now, you're two whole days into this, and right now it's all still theory. You have no proof yet. But when you pay off that first one, you get a little bit of proof and you pay off another one, you get a little bit more proof. And the more proof you build up, the more excited you get and the more sacrificial you get in your lifestyle, because you start to see that this is going to work. And I'm willing to pay. I'm willing to work extra. I'm willing to sell stuff. I'm willing to move ahead. I mean, you may end up even selling the van. What do you. What do you all make a year? What's your household income?

[John DeLoney]

He makes about one make 82.

[Dave Ramsey]

He makes about. Your phone keeps cutting out. He makes about what, one. What?

[John DeLoney]

He makes 130 and I make 82.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you've got a $200,000 household income. $212,000 household income.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Yep.

[Caller]

And we were.

[John DeLoney]

We were doing things backwards. So he was putting into his 401k. We stopped that. We had a college savings for our kids. We stopped.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's temporary. Those are temporary because you should be out of debt in a year or so.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So get in attack mode. Now, the heating and air. Back to that. That's why you called. It's not bad. It's just limping and it's old. And the heat and air guy keeps telling you every time he comes out to service it that you're going to have to get a new.

[John DeLoney]

We actually just had the electric company come in our house because our electric bill is. So we had them come in and tell us where we could save money on it and what was wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And of course, they recommend you get a new heat and air system. Yeah, a lot of people recommend you get a heat and air system that sell heat and air systems. It kind of goes with that territory. So here's the thing. The one you have is going to make it another year, okay? And if it doesn't, you're going to fix it and it's going to make it another year. So you need to take the money from that account and out of your checking and out of your savings down to $1,000 and throw that 20 and get this debt snowball rolling fast. And then you guys crank up, crank up the budget and let's get this thing knocked out. You probably are going to be debt free in about eight months if you do that. Maybe nine if I'm doing the math right in my head. So. And then you'll, then you'll buy heat and air system with cash at the time. But the whole thing's not going to completely collapse and you're not going to freeze to death in the interim. You're just not. Hold on, folks, don't panic. Buying a home in today's market doesn't have to be complicated, but it does take more than hope and a quick Internet search to get the right home. One that will be a blessing and not a burden. You need a trusted mortgage partner who will listen and serve you, not push more debt. You need the professionals at Churchill Mortgage. I've personally recommended Churchill for over 30 years and they're the only mortgage company that's Ramsey trusted. Churchill stands out because they operate the Ramsey way with transparency, integrity and a commitment to doing what's right for the customer, not what's profitable for themselves. Churchill aligns with Ramsey's values by focusing on education, responsible mortgage lending and helping people make smart long term decisions that enable them to build lasting wealth. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com today to begin a better mortgage experience. ChurchillMortgage.com this is a paid advertisement in.

[Co-host]

MLS ID 1591 in MLSConsumerAccess.org equal housing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lender Michael's in Georgia. Hey Michael. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[John DeLoney]

Thank you, Dave.

[Caller]

Thanks so much for having me. I got a question about our will. My wife is 63, I'm 60 or 62. I'm 64. We have two children and adult children and we have right now our will divided 50, 50. My son has a history of blowing money and we have stopped helping some years ago. Also there's other concerns. He's in a lifestyle and a relationship that we don't agree with. And so the question is really simple. Is it appropriate to change the will where one adult child is a beneficiary of decreased amounts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, it's totally appropriate, but the goal is not to be a punishing force.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

The goal is to. I don't want to finance things I don't agree with.

[Caller]

Okay, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

With my death. Okay. So my value system is not matching. And so I'm not going to finance, you know, an extreme situation that I always use just to kind of illustrate the concept. And it's not what you've got, but I mean, if your kid's doing heroin and you leave them a bunch of money, you kill them because they're going to overdose because they're now well financed. Heroin addiction. And so, you know, you're not. You're not doing them a favor to finance their bad choices from the grave.

[Caller]

And so is this something we communicate?

[Co-host]

Yes. God, please. Yes.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Co-host]

Otherwise you're going to destroy his relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

With his brother, the sibling.

[Caller]

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a daughter and a son. Yeah.

[Co-host]

You're going to destroy it because you're going to leave all this to the daughter and then when you pass away.

[Dave Ramsey]

He'S going to be pissed at her like she did something and she didn't do anything. So. And you know, and you know, John, make some. How. What's the gentlest? Because again, you want to make sure you're not using. If it's me, I would have a tendency to be doling this out as punishment. And I have to make sure I get my heart right, that I am not doing that, but instead I'm doing this to not finance the wrong things.

[Caller]

That's been a two to three year process of making sure my heart is right. This is something we could have done some years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

But. Yeah. How do you gently have this conversation?

[Co-host]

Well, like you say, like, if you're worried about him blowing money, I always like there to be a path to redemption. And so if there is no path, there's no path. And then there's not a gentle way other than to treat the person with dignity and respect and be kind and say it and expect the blowback that you're going to anticipate, but don't become somebody you're not in an effort to have a hard conversation. Right. The other side of it is if this person has a history of blowing money, a history of addiction, a history of whatever, and you've cut them off financially, being able to say, I want to love and support you, but I'm not willing to do it in this way. If you get on this plan, if you want to sit down and get some support in these ways, man, I'm all open. But as of right now, here's my decision.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And this is not our relationship. I'm cutting off. It's just the money.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I still love you. And you can't do anything that you can't do anything bad enough to make me not love you.

[Caller]

Even logistically, you got, you know, a child who's single. You got another one who's got two kids. So you could. We presented even logistically. No. No.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you just tell them the truth. No, Just tell them the truth. We're not aligned on these things, honey. And, you know, we're not aligned on these things. And, you know, we love you anyway, but we. You need to know also that we're not. We don't feel right about leaving money to finance things that we are not aligned on. And so I just want to let you know that your sister has nothing to do with this, but we are changing the will because of these decisions you have made. And so. And when, if you decide not to do that anymore, then we can talk about that. But it's not a punishment. It's because we just don't send money to things that we don't think it's morally or ethically correct to send money to things we don't agree with. And so, you know. You know, and so on, you know, it's. And I don't know that the conversation needs to be lengthy. I really wouldn't get into who shot who.

[Co-host]

Very short, very short. And. And always. It's kind of like a. Like a termination of employment. Here's the hard thing. I'm going to be back here in a week or. I know this is hard to digest. This is challenging, whatever. If you want to talk some further about it, I'd love to circle back with you on it, but this is. I just want you to know this is some choices we've made, because at that moment, it's fight or flight. Nobody's. Everyone's defending themselves and lashing out or shutting down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't try to explain it right.

[Co-host]

Not in that moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't give a whole bunch of details as to why not in that moment. It's just these. A couple of things here, you know, we're not aligned on. And, you know, based on that, your mom and I have talked about it, and we don't think it's morally correct for us to leave money to things that we're not aligned on. But it doesn't mean we don't love you.

[Co-host]

Here's the biggest thing out of this. I just was having a conversation with somebody outside of this building recently about this very thing. You will poison their relationship with their sibling if, or with aunt, uncle, whoever you leave this money to if you don't have the courage to have the conversation. Have the conversation. I talked to a sibling whose parent called and said, I'm moving all the money to you and will not have the conversation. And I said, well, circle back and say thank you. I don't want the money for destroying my relationship with my sibling.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host]

It goes wrong every time.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's just, that's cowardly.

[Co-host]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, yeah, that you've got, you've got to. And the, the way we always make fun of it here on the air is like if you're going to piss somebody off with your will, do it while you're alive. You know, it's that kind of thing. Because you are going to get blowback on this too. By the way. Don't, don't expect this conversation to go well.

[Co-host]

It goes poorly 100% of the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, it's not going to go well. But the, what's the saying you use? I can't remember. It's regret is.

[Co-host]

Oh, choose guilt over resentment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, choose guilt over resentment.

[Co-host]

You're going to feel guilty about taking the money, whatever. Otherwise you're just going to live every moment resenting your kid for future behavior they may or may not do after you're gone.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they don't even know they're doing it right yet. So, yeah, that's the whole thing. Patrick's in Grand Junction, Colorado. Hey, Patrick, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. I am assuming you are doing better than you deserve, so I will jump right in, buddy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

My wife and I are 45 years old and we have six kids from 18 down to 10 and they have all gone through your homeschool Dave Ramsey curriculum. Awesome. And yeah, they are doing great. My 15 year old son came to us with an Excel spreadsheet that he printed out and he said, mom, when can I start a Roth IRA?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

So three, my first three kids started the Roth IRA at 15. My fourth kid, he's 14 years old, he wants to start his this year and they're really doing good.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's amazing.

[Co-host]

I've never told, told a parent this before. Get your kid a video game system or something.

[Caller]

I will consider it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Dave, My wife and I think we might be able to complete baby step number six this year. @ the very worse early next year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Congratulations.

[Caller]

Totally. Yeah, obviously totally debt free. My question, and I have 10,000 more questions after this, but I know we don't have a lot of time. So the main question, how do I protect my home once it is totally paid off? I'm self employed and I'm just concerned that once I have this nice juicy asset, you know, if the worst thing happens, maybe you get sued, someone gets hurt on a job and all of a sudden someone wants to come after your home, what's the best way to protect it? Do I put it in a trust? Do you have a suggestion, you know, for us?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, number one, your business where the liability that you're concerned with should be an llc, is it?

[Caller]

No, it is not sole proprietor.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's the first thing. That's the first thing the business needs to be an LLC because that's your biggest source of then if the, if someone gets hurt or harmed in some way associated with the llc, the only thing they could sue is the llc.

[Caller]

Got it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

So the assets in the company and.

[Dave Ramsey]

The assets in the company and you do business in the name of the LLC all the time. You never again do business in the name of Patrick. And so once you've got some assets and you're running a business that enough assets that you worry about having a target like this, then you definitely do an LLC there. If you want to go one step further, you can just drop the house into an LLC if you want. Some people put their homes in trusts. I did that with one house. But these days everything we have is LLC and I got a bunch of them. And I actually am very poor. I don't own a single thing. There's zero things in Dave's name. So if you want to sue me, you just have at it. I don't own anything. It's really a, it's really a bad target. It's not a target rich environment. So. But now some of the LLCs that we have, they own some stuff.

[John DeLoney]

Foreign.

[Co-host]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Paul is in Minnesota. Hey, Paul. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Appreciate it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, my wife and I are currently, we have about $57,000 in debt minus our house. We have baby step one complete. We have the, you know, the thousand dollars saved up. We just, we're trying to recover from just years of making bad financial decisions and just kind of don't know what to do to kind of take that next step. It just seems like whenever we try to get ahead, something comes up. We have to, you know, dip into our savings or eliminate our savings. And, you know, we, some months are good, other months for paycheck to paycheck, and we're just trying to find a way we can sustain more income and just kind of get ahead of this debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what's your household income?

[Caller]

Take home pay after taxes between our two main jobs is about 60 to 65,000 a year. I started my own business last year doing interior detailing, and that kind of fluctuates. That's probably added another 15,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

On top of this.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're dealing with $80,000 a year situation. And you said take home Pay. You've stopped 401 case temporarily?

[Caller]

Yep. We don't, we don't have retirement through our jobs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Unfortunately.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you, do you have any other expenses coming out of your checks other than taxes?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Where's health insurance?

[Caller]

Our health insurance is. We just locally purchase it through the state. It's about $230 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're buying that separate as a budget item. Okay. All right.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so we got 80,000 bucks to deal with, and you have $57,000 in debt. What is the Debt on.

[Caller]

So we have about 8,500 in a personal loan, 9,500 in credit cards. The big ones are going to be our two vehicles. About $20,000 between the two and then just about 21,000 in school loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And what's your house payment?

[Caller]

So we have insurance and taxes and all that rolled into it. So it's 15, 20amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many kids do you have?

[Caller]

We have two boys, seven and four.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, well $80,000 a year with a fifteen hundred dollar house payment, you should be able to make progress on this.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Substantial progress. So I think the devil's in the details inside your every dollar budget. And you know, I don't know whether you're still going out to eat. I don't know if you're still going on vacation. I don't know where the leak is in this. But you know, what I'm looking at is $7,000, $8,000 a month, $7,000 and some change a month minus 1,500, minus food, lights, water. I think I can find a thousand dollars in there to put on these debts. Yeah. Are the car payments real high interest?

[Caller]

I think one is about 9%. The other one, I. Yeah, I can't remember what the other one is. I want to say it might be, might be a little.

[Dave Ramsey]

So these car payments are 4 or 500 a piece, right?

[Caller]

Yep, 300 and like 195. So they're not.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's not, that's not it. Okay.

[Co-host]

You seem to acknowledge there's there's some leaks somewhere. Where is this money going?

[Caller]

You know, I try to ask myself the same thing. I think the income might be a little off. Like I said, are in my interior detailing business fluctuates quite a bit. It seems like on average, I mean when I'm mapping it out, that's only a thousand dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

Twelve hundred dollars a month.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

If it averages out okay. Yeah. So some months you make four, some make nothing. Probably. Okay. But still that's not. I mean you should be able to make it and make progress without the interior detailing. The interior detailing could all go towards this. So. Yeah. Are you doing a detailed every dollar budget, you and your spouse sitting down and every dollar has a name before the month begins.

[Caller]

We don't. It's more so we use it to track. Yeah, we use it to more so track our bills and make sure we're pay everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've got to get around in front of the money instead of behind it. You can't look in the rearview mirror and say, what happened? It's too late. The money's gone. You have to tell it what to do before it leaves. And then it will go to the correct things. That's where your leaks are, is just in the chaos of the disorganization. And here's how I know that from 30 years of doing this. The most often thing people say after they do their every dollar budget, they download the app, they put the money in there, and they often say, I feel like I got a raise. And all it is is the money is being is more efficiently deployed. That's all it is. And so you have this sense of power, this sense of empowerment. And the other thing they say is, what have we been doing? Where has all this money gone before? It's like it just disappeared. And I've heard this from people doing the every dollar budget ever since we first built the app long time ago and it wasn't nearly as sophisticated and didn't tell you what to do and help you walk through the baby steps and everything else like it does now. But back then, but I mean, it just. Even when I was doing budgets with a yellow pad and you would just write down kind of like I just did in my head with your stuff just now, you know, you got $7,000, you got 1,500. And then we take off lights and water and a 195 car payment and a 350 car payment. I still got money. Where's the money going?

[Co-host]

Several thousand.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what you were saying. And it's like everybody that same reaction to their own budget when they do it. I feel like I got a raise because I made my money behave. And that old John Maxwell saying starts to, you know, hit. That emotion of a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went. A budget is not a form of medieval torture. You don't find it in the dungeon with the thumb screws. It's not there, okay, in the stretch machine or whatever, all that stuff. Right? But you know, it's not a form of medieval torture. It's simply you're doing it on purpose. You're being proactive instead of reactive. And anytime you do that in any area of your life, it increases your dignity and lowers your anxiety.

[Co-host]

And I'll say this, in any area of your life when you discover, oh my gosh, we've been eating out to the tune of $1,600 a month, or this has never happened in my house, but you're buying so many Bullets or guitar. Things that, like, we have this much gummies, like gummy bears. We have this much extra money. There is a, like an order of things that happen. You feel ashamed. You feel super, super excited. And then the 30 days, the next 30 days happens and it's not fun at all. No, it feels like you got 1600 bucks. You didn't. You located it. But now you have to actually not spend it on stuff. And that's hard and that's discipline.

[Dave Ramsey]

I remember when we first started Financial Peace University with the videotapes. A long time ago, I went visit one of the classes and this old country boy was in there. And I said, by the way, by.

[Co-host]

The way, videotape for you young folks. They used to take YouTube clips and put them on inside of plastic and then just. You had it at your house. Okay, go ahead, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

I stopped in and this small group, this old country boy was in there, and he goes, yeah, I don't figure it out why we ain't got no retirement. We've been eating it. Twelve hundred bucks a month on restaurants. And that was a long time ago. I've never heard anybody spend $1200 on a restaurant. But man, it was wild. Yeah. But, yeah, we ain't got no retirement because we've been eating it. That and everybody cracked up and they all could relate you exactly what it was. Or bullets or whatever it is. Yeah, it's. It could happen. And firearms, they could, they could, they could, they could cause issues.

[Co-host]

But expect to be embarrassed, like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I've been spending this. Expect to be like, yeah, we're rich. You're not. And expect the next 30 to 60 days to be miserable because then you have to change your behavior. If you've been eating out three times a week, you have to figure out how to eat at home. If you watch a news channel that makes you uncomfortable and you think buying bullets is going to solve that discomfort, I don't know anybody that. That does that for it. You're gonna have to just sit in the discomfort. And if you have latent fantasies of being a rock star and you're in your late 40s and you haven't realized it's not going to happen yet. Dave, I'm talking to myself here. Don't buy that thing, because it's not going to help. It's not gonna help.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not. The guitar is not the problem.

[Co-host]

It's not. I. I'm the problem. It's me.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's.

[Co-host]

As the great philosopher Taylor Swift once said.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's. Oh, we'll just end on that. It statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Co-host]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[Co-host]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me, too.

[Co-host]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here, and, you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Co-host]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man.

[Co-host]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah, to just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying, I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Foreign thanks for hanging out with us, America. Did you know that two thirds of Americans die without a will? That's 70% of you. That's dumb. That's just straight up dumb. You're gonna leave the family behind. They're not gonna know what's going on. You're gonna increase your court costs through the roof. And then the government is gonna tell you, tell your family what's gonna happen instead of you doing it just because you wouldn't sit down, do well. I might die. You're gonna die. We've done research. 100% of you are gonna die. It's just a matter of when, and you don't know when. So get your will done. If you're over 18 years old, get it done. If you want to challenge, we want to challenge. You to create your will in August. And in less than five minutes, you can find out if an online will works for [e-mail] will quiz. It's free. You can click the link in the show notes. It's will quiz. Will's quiz. Ramseysolutions.com wills quiz. And if you do find out an online will fit your situation, you can get 25% off if you do this in August by using the promo code Will Month. One word, no spaces. Will. Month. This is the month you do your will right now. And if you've moved states, your will is invalid. You need a new will. Probate law is not federal law. It is state law. And state laws are different from state to state, particularly if you leave a state like California or Texas or Louisiana. All three of those have weird laws. And so Texas is a republic. It thinks it's his own country. Still, it has weird laws. California, well, enough said. And Louisiana's got a lot of French stuff woven into their law where most of the other law is English based. And so it's different. And so yeah, you're gonna, you need a different, different. You need a will when you move, if you'd get a. If you have something change in your life, a divorce, a death, you need to do your will again and update it. And so get your stuff done, people. It changes everything when you do. All right, Marcus is up next. Marcus is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Marcus, how are you?

[Caller]

A lot better than I deserve. Uncle Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

The same, sir. How can I help you?

[Caller]

Dave? I'm in my third year of bankruptcy and it's been pretty rough. About two months ago, the mother of my children, she decided to do some drinking and driving and she almost killed herself. And my young children, my twins are 4 years old and I recently gained full custody due to the circumstances of that. And it's been pretty rough, man. I've depleted my emergency fund and my back is pretty much up against the wall. And I'm calling because I've been weighing the option of selling my home and just renting because, you know, 10% interest rate with the bankruptcy, it's just hard. I don't know if I can do two more years of it. I'm on a five year term and I made about 60,000 last year and bankruptcy took 30 of that. So I'm pretty much.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much debt is in your chapter 13?

[Caller]

It was 70,074 to be exact. I called my mortgage company and they let me know that 61 is what's owed on the house?

[Dave Ramsey]

The house is in the chapter 13?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I was facing foreclosure and that is why I filed chapter 13.

[Dave Ramsey]

I see. Okay. And so you owe the whole thing is the house. You don't have any other debt in the chapter 13?

[Caller]

I had about, I believe 25 to 3,000 in consumer debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's almost all the house, in other words.

[Caller]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, sir. So the house is the problem. So the house might be the solution, mathematically. I got you. I'm catching on. So you owe like how much on the house today?

[Caller]

They gave me a payoff of 61.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it worth?

[Caller]

They said I owed the tax or the property tax. Said about a hundred.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's not what I asked. I asked what it's really worth. What are you gonna put it on the market for tax? Tax appraisal is not appraisal.

[Caller]

Yes, sir, I understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you think the house is actually worth if we put a sign in the yard? You have any idea?

[Caller]

200.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

195 to 200.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. All right. So you put 140 in your pocket and you're free.

[Caller]

So you would sell.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just asking. I'm making sure I understand. This is exactly what you're saying, correct?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. That is the option I'm wearing? Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you got four year old twins full time?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who's taking care of them while you're at work?

[Caller]

I've been lucky enough to get some daycare vouchers, so they're in a daycare and my mom's helping with pickup and drop offs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What do you do for a living, sir?

[Caller]

I'm a delivery driver for a company in here in Raleigh.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 38 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Wow. Okay. What I don't want to do, and I'm thinking this reason I'm pausing and flipping around, I want to make sure I get all the answers to these details. Because what I don't want to do is you, you obviously need some relief. Your language and the way you describe the situation and everything coming into the early in the call when you first got on the line, I mean, you need some relief. And I don't want to give you relief in return for doing something dumb. I mean, if it feels good today, but it sucks as a five year decision, I don't want to do that one. Okay. But I don't see a downside of selling this house right now. As long as you say, okay, the plan is I'm gonna sell the house, I'm gonna be free, I'm gonna be relaxed for a little bit, breathe a little bit, get out from under the bankruptcy. It was not a blessing. Probably just sold it to stop the foreclosure rather than gone into bankruptcy. To stop the foreclosure would have been the plan. And then, and then. But what I want on the backside of that is not just my, my only strategy doesn't mean to be get away from the pain. My strategy needs to get away from the pain so that I can go do A, B and C to prosper.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

So yeah, I'm with you. Let's get away from the pain. But I want you to decide what are you going to do with 140,000?

[Caller]

So I spoke with my bankruptcy attorney and I still have a meeting with them, but they informed me that after I guess I make the sale, the proceeds would go to the trustee. So. And I'm guessing that means that you know, the bankruptcy and everything will be clear, I'll be discharged of that and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then they return the proceeds to you.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, sir. Do you know how that process works? Is that like a 30 day thing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Depends on your trustee. The bankruptcy trust chapter 13 trustee is a local office and if Raleigh's chapter 13 is efficient, you'll get it inside of a month. Most of the Chapter 13 trustees I know, several of them are excellent at what they do. They really run a good shop. The guy here in Nashville, he's the best in the nation. He actually leads a lot of the associations. He's a friend of mine and he runs an incredible shop. But most of the, most of them do a good job. But just talk to the Chapter 13 Trustee Office about it. Say how long can I expect to get this, how long before and so forth. Because I need to go rent something and I don't have any money.

[Caller]

I do have a fear of, you know, finding something to rent. With bankruptcy being on my history. Do you think that's going to be a big obstacle or.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you know, you've got 140,000 in your pocket, so you probably can work that out with a deposit.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or prepayment of rent. I'll prepay for six months and I'll give you a deposit if you're nervous about my 13. But I'm out of the 13. I got no bill.

[Caller]

Exactly. No debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

I have zero death and I'm out of the 13. And the stuff that caused it is all in the rear View mirror and I have $140,000 in my pocket. If you wanted to rent from me and I was the landlord and we have houses, we rent, I would rent to that guy. I would make you prepay for a couple months in advance just to get it, you know, get, let's get a head start, three or four months or something and just, you know, because I don't want you to go blow that 140 and then not having money to pay my rent. Right. If I'm the landlord. But yeah, I think you can work it out with that. Yeah, but you sound like a guy that needs relief. Yeah.

[Co-host]

And then ask yourself, does 48 year old Marcus want to be a delivery driver? And if this is the time to go get retooled and get some skills or to begin thinking about what are we going to do next, man, this is your moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If you use $10,000 to go to code school and you decided you were going to be a code a software engineer. Next. Next. That'd be a good use of some of the money or whatever. If you use some of the money to retool and get yourself to the thing where you go to something other than the getby job.

[John DeLoney]

Hey, you guys. More than a hundred million Americans carry medical debt. And that is so scary. And it shows that traditional coverage often leaves people to face big bills alone. Families need more than just coverage.

[Dave Ramsey]

They need community.

[John DeLoney]

So what if your healthcare costs less and you are actually supported by other believers in the process? That's why I love Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a budget friendly faith based alternative to health insurance that's been serving believers since 1981 and they've paid over $12 billion in medical bills, y'.

[Dave Ramsey]

All.

[John DeLoney]

That is faith in action. So let me say it again. CHM is not insurance. It's a nationwide health cost sharing ministry. It's Christians helping other Christians with their medical bills. With CHM you get to choose your providers. There are no networks, no surprise bills and no insurance headaches. Whether you're just starting out as a family or you're looking for something that fits your budget better, CHM is where your faith and finances agree. Programs start at just $98 a month. So go to chministries.org budget to learn more and take the leap of faith. Today, that's chministries.org budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build well, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host Dr. John DeLoney, PhD in counseling, Ramsey personality number one. Best selling author and host of the popular Dr. John DeLoney show on Ramsey Networks. He's my co host. Today Haley is with us in York, Pennsylvania. Hi Haley, how are you?

[John DeLoney]

Hi. Doing well. Thank you for having me. Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Caller]

Up?

[John DeLoney]

So my question is basically when is the time to use your emergency fund? Right. Well, so the question came from my husband and I had a surprise tax bill. It was about $3,500. And the question then came, do we pay from our emergency fund that's fully funded, we don't have any debt, or do we take it from. We have a kind of a fund going to make a renovation on our house. So he wanted to take it from that fund because he didn't want to touch the emergency fund. But then I said, well, isn't that the point of an emergency fund? To use it for unexpected expenses. So just kind of wanted to get your opinions on that.

[Co-host]

This is like Rocky 4, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

So did the good fight. How do you have an unexpected tax bill and have you fixed the problem that caused that?

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. So I think what happened is it's because of all the COVID child tax credits that then they took away that we didn't realize. We've had someone doing our taxes and yeah, we've never had to pay and we haven't done anything differently. So that was the only thing that we could guess. So he made sure to look with.

[Dave Ramsey]

His okay, if I get a surprise 3500, I'm not guessing. I'm gonna know. Like I'm gonna know or I'm gonna fire somebody and get somebody that knows. Okay. So that. Because here's the problem. It happens again if you don't know what caused it and you don't make an adjustment. Agreed?

[John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So it's not sustainable. We got it. We gotta fix that. I can tell you what Dave and Sharon would do. We would take it out of the renovation money.

[Co-host]

So the Deloney's okay because.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, because we, we touched the emergency fund last. If we have excess savings somewhere else for something else that is not immediate. You're saving up to do a renovation and the tax problem just, just delayed your renovation a little bit. That's what it is. Because otherwise you're going to have to delay the renovation anyway because you're not finished saving for it. And you'd have to put the money back in the emergency fund before you restarted saving into the renovation fund. And so you'd have to stop everything Till you got your emergency fund put back. I don't want to do all that. So, no, let's just sidestep that and go straight into it and take the money out of there.

[Co-host]

I. Dave, I'm just kind of just stuck on, oh, we got a surprise bill. Let's just pay it. I mean, I'd go see another tax person. I'd want someone to walk me through exactly what just happened. Especially if you've never had that happen previously.

[Dave Ramsey]

Generally, taxes piss me off. Surprise taxes double piss me off.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I saw the building. The roof came off one time, and they're like, dave, got a surprise tax bill. That's just what happened. But. But again, like, it's one of those. I had that this month. Like, our electric bill went way, way up, and it was easy just to go, well, that stinks it. Like, I want to stop the. Let's figure out what just happened so that doesn't happen again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Co-host]

And let's try something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is there something running?

[Co-host]

Right.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Issue. Yeah. Some kind of a thing going on? Yeah, that's, you know, let's get. Let's source the problem and nip it. Yeah, nip it in the bud. Pat is in Michigan. Hey, Pat. How are you?

[John DeLoney]

Hi. I'm good, thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[John DeLoney]

Well, my husband and I are in our late 70s, and we're afraid we're going to outlive our savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much money have you got?

[John DeLoney]

Well, we got about 30,000 in savings and about 190 and CDs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

Or 401k money market.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Do you know when you're going to die yet?

[John DeLoney]

Whenever the Lord decides.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm turning 65, so I'm still trying to figure that out myself, kiddo. All right, so how much of the savings are you using to live? In other words, how much over budget are you?

[John DeLoney]

You were about $500 over budget every month.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's $6,000 a year.

[John DeLoney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have 190,000. Dividing 6,000 into that. I don't think you're going to run out of money if you stay at this budget. What is your income? Social Security and what else?

[John DeLoney]

Just a minute. Let me grab the information here.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay. Now, I mean, what are your sources of income?

[John DeLoney]

Our earnings are. Is Social Security and two small pensions of $5,023 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's your total budget a month?

[John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're. And you're spending 500 more than that on 190,000. Now, is the 190,000 you said it's.

[John DeLoney]

In CDs, some of it's in CDs and about 80,000 in the money market from our 401k or IRA, whatever it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so that's making you say $6,000 a year in interest between the two, isn't it?

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, I think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And that's about what you're overspending. So if the 200,000, the 190 grows by 3%, that's approximately. It's not quite $6,000 a year. And if you use that interest to supplement and you don't touch the 190, the goose that's laying those little golden eggs is going to sit there and lay forever. You'll never run out of money now if you keep cranking up and five years from now you're spending $8,000 a month more or eight or two thousand or $3,000 a month more than you make got coming in. You could run into a problem that way.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But if you stay right where you are, mathematically you're not going to run out of money. Does that make sense?

[John DeLoney]

Yes. Also want to ask you, we have a car payment of $220 a month. What's the balance on the car by 5,000. Should we pay that off?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You said you had 30,000 in savings, right?

[John DeLoney]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Take 5,000 of that money and pay it off today.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I already feel better.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. You like paying off debt. I know, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I like people being able to live on what they make. Because we just reduced your 500 to 200 because we got. Or 300 because you got rid of a 200 car payment, so now you're only 300 over budget. Tada. Isn't this magical? Hey, thank you for calling in, kiddo.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Foreign. I get it. Switching banks is a pain in the. You know what? But if your bank doesn't line up with your money goals, it's time to make the switch to Fair Winds Credit Union. Listen, you guys know how I feel about big banks. They make money when you stay broke. Charging you overdraft fees, pushing credit cards and telling you debt is normal. And that's why I only we work with folks who help you, not just profit off of you. Fairwinds is different. They're owned by their members, their non profit and they share our values. They even advertise with billboards saying they want their members to be debt free. So they built the Smart Checking and savings bundle just for Ramsey fans. You can open your account online in minutes and here's what you get. Free checking with no minimums and no monthly fees. Savings with a high APY to help you in baby step one and beyond and a mobile app that actually makes sense. Plus you also get access to over 33,000 fee free ATMs and more than 5,000 affiliated branches nationwide. So don't settle for a bank that slows your progress down. Choose one that's built to help you win with money. Go to Fairwinds.com and open your Smart bundle today.

[Co-host]

Fairwinds is federally insured by the ncu.

[Dave Ramsey]

Kira is in Texas. Hi Kiro, what's up?

[John DeLoney]

Hi. Thank you for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[John DeLoney]

I have a question about my 19 year old son. He decided that college is not for him so he's not going to go back in the fall. We told him that he had to get a job. We wanted him to get one within a month. It's almost been three months but he's finally working at Walmart part time, $14 an hour. And he also receives about $10,000 in dividends that he gets in four payments. So he's very bad with money. Like his dividend rolls around and there's zero in his bank account. He has to borrow gas money. Like my main question is what would be the best course to take to like kind of open his eyes to I am not spending my money wisely. I should be doing this and this.

[Dave Ramsey]

What, what happened eight years ago when you were going to teach him work ethic and you didn't.

[John DeLoney]

We tried. I feel like we tried. We're pretty good with money. We tried to teach them that we don't go out to eat very often like all through their grown up we don't go out to eat and I don't know if that's like the main thing. Like he eats out all the time when he was in college.

[Caller]

No, he doesn't work extra.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what the main thing is. He doesn't work Walmart at $14 an hour is what 16 year olds do. Not grown men.

[Co-host]

Where's he, where's he live?

[John DeLoney]

We're in Texas.

[Co-host]

No, where does he live?

[Dave Ramsey]

In her house.

[John DeLoney]

He's with us. Yes.

[Caller]

And, and, and we pay.

[Co-host]

I'm telling you this everything because I love you. But that's the problem. Him, he, he, he can't learn something that, let me put it this way, what he's doing, his behavior makes perfect sense in his world. He gets checks that fall from the sky every quarter. He has no rent. He, and he has a mom and dad, that said you have to get a job. And he goes, okay, I'll work six hours a week. And y' all pay his. His cell phone, you pay his insurance, you pay for everything. So.

[John DeLoney]

Well, we. That's one of the. That's one of the things is he's supposed to pay his car insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

He do a lot of crap he doesn't do. But you don't make him do nothing, right?

[Co-host]

You don't take it away. And the only way this changes, Literally, the only way this changes. I've worked with this age group my entire career. The only way this changes is if y' all sit down and you and your husband come to an agreement that you're gonna weather the storm. Cause hell's coming. And you're gonna sit down and say at the end of this month, you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Out or two months or whatever.

[John DeLoney]

Part of the problem with that is he would move in with his mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, that's good.

[John DeLoney]

And she. She kind of coddles him.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fine.

[Co-host]

Kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, wait a minute, honey. You got the coddling thing down, okay?

[Co-host]

Everybody's coddling down.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't hand that off to her. You got that down to a science.

[Co-host]

Everyone is.

[Dave Ramsey]

This kid. This kid has coddling from every direction. He's just a coddler.

[John DeLoney]

I mean, he was in college for a year. So this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honey, the kid's got to move out. I mean, I'm not gonna argue with you about this anymore. Anymore. You know, all you can talk about is the stuff he doesn't do. He has no problems. Your job is to help him have some problems.

[Co-host]

That's it. That's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

He doesn't have. There's no reason for him to change.

[Co-host]

His behavior or think about this way. His life is a weight room. And every time he gets under the bar to start lifting weights, to get stronger, to deal with life, one of the parents, you or his mother and her, whoever she's with, run in there and take all the weight off the bar. And so now you've got a kid who's 19 who has never lifted the bar in his life. Because each parent keeps running there saying, I don't want to be the bad one. You don't want to be the bad one. And now you got a 19 year old that literally does not know how to lift anything heavy. And so it's. It's abuse. Y' all are robbing this young man. And I get the pickle. You're in the moment. You say, hey, you got to get out. He's going to go, okay, I'll just go over here then.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fine. You can't control that. But you can control your part in the equation. Quit trying to control his part.

[Co-host]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't control his part in the equation. This is a kid who thinks going to class is hard work. That's funny.

[Co-host]

Or six hours a week is hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Now I've got a job part time. He's smoking a lot of pot.

[Caller]

A lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There's no ambition anywhere in this.

[Co-host]

Well, and man, here's the thing, Dave. Like I heard somebody say this about a year ago and man, it has been a like a knife right in my chest. Because he's right. And he said, I don't want to hear another person say, quote unquote, these kids these days. Because it's not the kids haven't changed, it's the adults in their lives who've changed, who are not expecting. Not giving these young people, especially 17, 18, 19 and 20 year olds, the gift of, of experiencing hard challenges and overcoming those challenges so they can feel a sense of confidence to go do the next thing. He should have had a part time job when he was 15 or 14 so that he could learn how to do that, so he could have the privilege of having a full time job when he's 19 or 20. Drop out of college, fine, but you gotta go be a part of the workforce. Workforce is hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Co-host]

But he's been robbed every step of the way by adults in his life that can't get along, can't be unified. And here you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is what we get for his own good.

[Co-host]

Good golly, breaks my heart.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everything we're unified on is coddling. That's it.

[Co-host]

Or using him to out parent the other parent now that we're divorced, whatever the mess is. But adults need to come together on behalf of these young people and say we're robbing them of the experiences that life's going to throw and hit them right in the mouth with.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know the thing that there's a couple of things I always go back to and remembering all this is teach your kids to do hard things.

[Co-host]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And Andrew Andrews talks about, you're not raising kids to be great kids, you're raising kids to become great adults. And if you're doing that, then that involves teaching them adult skills. Age appropriately, with increasing intensity so that when they are age appropriate they are able to leave the nest. And the mother eagle, the nest is filled with down, but it is a nest built with Thorns. And then as the baby eagles grow, she begins to pull the down out of the nest and the thorns begin to stick them. And it becomes increasingly uncomfortable to stay in the nest if you are a baby eagle until you finally stand up on the edge of the nest and fall out and spread your wings and fly and soar. Dude. Yeah. Because an eagle that doesn't leave the nest is eventually known as a turkey. And so this is how this works. So, yeah, you make it increasingly uncomfortable to live there because it is good for your child development. People will tell you it is good for your dignity to pay your own light bill and buy your own milk and clean your own clothes instead of your mommy doing it. It's just good for your development. And I've watched it with my three as they grew up and left the nest and didn't have to. We weren't mad at them. There wasn't any anger, there wasn't anything. But just when they quit living under our roof and they had to do their own stuff, they walk different. Yeah, they're right. They talk different. They carry themselves differently. And it's, you know, doing them no favor delaying their development. And this kid, he needs some hard work. Yeah, I want some problems for him. I want him to have some problems to solve. He's had no problems in a long time. And so, yeah, desperately needs trouble.

[Co-host]

And by the way, getting a neighbor, if you got young kids, getting a neighbor that will let your 9 year old come over and sweep the front porch for a dollar, those kind of things are amazing at. And we're not talking about sweatshops. I'm not talking about like you got to pull like you do eight hour days. That's not what I'm talking about at all. But letting your kid mow the yard, letting your kid go out and do some things, let him. Letting them take feedback. A neighbor that you trust or from somebody at your church that you trust, hey, you did a good job here. But you missed this corner right here. It builds dignity and character. And I'm telling you, man, you got kids that just walk differently when they know how to work.

[Dave Ramsey]

The one that always kills me on that was I was cutting grass. I was 12 years old. My neighbor and I have no idea he was the nicest man, but his nickname was Slugger. Slugger Carnahan. I cut his grass for $3 and he came out there with one of these little fork things and he goes, quit cutting the weeds. Use this and dig the weeds out. When you cut the weeds, you spread the Weeds. And I get more weeds. And he walked around and made me go over his whole yard and dig them out. Wore me out. 12 years old, man.

[Co-host]

3 bucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, $3, man. And his name's Slugger. So you don't, you gotta do it. I mean, it's like it's not an option. With the lowest prices of any national grocery store, shoppers save big at Aldi. Aldi believes in making shopping straightforward and stress free. Whether you're firing up the grill for a family dinner or hosting a backyard barbecue, Aldi is there to help. They've got a great selection of fresh USDA choice meats and organic produce at prices that won't bust your budget. And no messing around with apps, coupons, loyalty cards or membership fees to get low prices on award winning products every day. So stop overpaying and start shopping at Aldi. Find a store near you today@aldi us. That's a L D I dot us savings.

[Co-host]

Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free Free every dollar trainings. These are new trainings every, every single week this month. And they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities, either Rachel Cruz, George Camel or Jade Warshaw. They're really good and we're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find around $9,000 worth of margin to move your debt, snowball along and get you started. We know how to do this and you can ask questions during the live Q and A. So sign up for free. Did I mention this is [e-mail] webinar Julie's in Kansas City. Hi Julie, how are you?

[John DeLoney]

I'm good. Thank you for taking my call. My question is about preparing financially for disability in my future and it will be before typical retirement age. I'm 45 right now. I have a degenerative disease that'll I will probably be wheelchair bound within 10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you got, hun?

[John DeLoney]

Multiple sclerosis?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I was thinking, okay, so it.

[John DeLoney]

Causes me a lot of nervous system problems and I work full time right now with accommodation. But in the conversation with my doctors, it has been about, it's been about how to plan quality of life. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. You already, I'm sure because of the diagnosis, know a lot more about this than I do. I've had several experiences with customers over the years. And friends. And the fatigue and stress with one of my friends seems to accelerate her symptoms.

[John DeLoney]

Yes, that is very true for me as well. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so anything you can do to lower that? And in her case, they gave her the same prognosis that was 20 years ago. And she's still walking around fine. Not fine. She's got ms, but she's not wheelchair bound. But she's managed. She's really, really managed the fatigue and the stress, and I think that's part of her doing so well. So back to your question. How do you get ready for this from a financial perspective? What do you make?

[John DeLoney]

I teach in higher ed. I am at 92 right now, and that's with teaching overload and teaching some classes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm assuming you're single.

[John DeLoney]

I am. I am divorced a year ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

After 24 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you make 92. And how much money do you have in your nest egg today?

[John DeLoney]

So the divorce was quite messy. It was. There was a lot of financial issues behind the scenes that I didn't know about when everything started. So after everything was said and done, I am no longer. I don't have any commercial credit card debt. I have about $50,000 in retirement. And because of the particular institution I teach at, I'm part of the public school teacher pension. So 15% of my paycheck goes into teacher pension. I never see that money.

[Dave Ramsey]

First thing I want to do then is I want to investigate at the point that you are declared disabled, what does the pension look like? Do you know that already?

[John DeLoney]

Yes, when I. When I ran that, there's an option for a lump sum that is about 75,000, and then that would be 2,200amonth. After that lump sum or altogether, if I don't do the lump sum, it's about 26amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And that's 10 years from today?

[John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So you're already doing your research. Well done. That's good. That's good information.

[John DeLoney]

I would rather know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. What.

[John DeLoney]

What could happen, even if it's very, very bad.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you got $50,000 as well in a retirement. Do you have any debt?

[John DeLoney]

No debt. My car is paid off. I am renting right now. The marital home was sold, and that covered the large portion of the commercial debt that he had rented.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, gotcha. Okay. And so. All right, well, the. The math answer to the equation, and you already knew this before you called me, but I'll just say it out loud again, is if this occurs 10 years from today, the Lower your expenses are and the higher your nest egg is, the easier the process is going to be financially. Okay, no kidding, Dave. I already knew that. Okay, so the point being, stay out of debt. You probably do get into a house, something modest, and it would be really cool if you could get it paid off because that lowers your expenses and increases your sustainability mathematically. Okay. And because you got the biggest item in your budget line item is housing, it always is. And so if you got a zero there or you only got property taxes and insurance there because it's paid off, then you've got a real sustainable situation and you know, the 2,400 and the money you can make off of the 50,000 and the 75,000, which by the way, that 50,000 by then, by the time this all happens, will be 200,000. Okay, if it's invested in good mutual funds. And then, yes, I would take the lump sum if this occurs, the 75, if that's the actual number that happens and the way everything goes down. And I'm going to roll that into an IRA and invest that in good mutual funds. That will give you a better rate of return than the pension will, right?

[John DeLoney]

Yes. If I could choose not to participate in the pension, I would.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but, but I'm just saying, when you get to the point that you are declared disabled, or you get to the point that you're retired and they offer you a lump sum on a pension, always take it and always take it. Take as much as they'll let you take and then roll that because it'll create more money for you than it will if it's left there. That's the bottom line. And when you die, the pension dies with you. And the money that's in your investment accounts does not die with you. It goes to your heirs. So you know, that kind of thing. But anyway, so if I. You have done such a good job analyzing all this stuff and you're such a detailed person, you get peace from the knowledge. I can tell by talking to you. And so if I'm you, I'm gonna run some spreadsheet stuff out into the future and go, okay, if I get a house, I'm gonna sit down with my smartvestor pro, start talking about investing this 50k and some good mutual funds. So it will double about every five to seven years, something like that. And that it should. If it's making 10, 11, 12%, that's how often it's going to double. And so that's how I'm getting to 200 on this. And of course the 10 years is not set. Could be eight, could be 18, could be never. And the more of a plan you have, you get peace from that, the more I think that helps your prognosis. But I'm not a medical doctor.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. One of the difficulties over the last two years with the divorce has been like it really just a lot of disease progression.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

And then also just get trying to get my, just like my cortisol and.

[Caller]

All those stress things down and Julie, let's change.

[Co-host]

I'm going to change a word. Can we change one word word?

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Let's change the word progression to flower. Yeah. Flare up because major traumatic moments, major traumatic seasons does exacerbate Ms. Symptoms.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Co-host]

And maybe it did push it down the track a little bit or maybe.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was a flare up and it goes back. Yeah.

[Co-host]

So here, here's a question I want you to take to your doctor. Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Co-host]

What must be true for me to push this thing off seven years.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Co-host]

Excuse me, I was coughing. What must be true? So they said about 10 years. All right, cool. Let's make a 15 year plan. What Exercise counseling, therapy, trauma work. What must I do now? It may not work but let's go out guns a blazing on, on trying to push this thing down the track, not just resigning to the fact that it's 10 years and I'm wheelchair bound forever. And by the way, you're in a great job where if you are wheel bound, wheelchair bound, you can still teach, you can still be involved with students at some level. But let's see if we could if a doctor will make a plan with you and see what would happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by why Refi defaulted? Private student loans can wreck your peace of mind, your finances and even your relationships. Why Refi offers hope with custom refinancing based on your unique situation and ability to pay. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Co-host]

Today's question comes from Corey in Indiana. Corey writes, my mother in law just died and left $75,000 to my wife. I told my wife to use the money to pay off our debts and she responded by asking how dare you think of a way to spend my money. I had to walk away from her at that point because she's been using my wages since we got married to pay off her debts and have always been willing to sacrifice or delay things to wipe them out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Out.

[Co-host]

We currently owe about 25,000 in credit card and unsecured loans, which would still leave her with $50,000. I've tried to explain to her that if we keep paying the loans from my paychecks, it's only going to keep us further from getting ahead in life. How do I get her to understand this concept? Oh, boy. Y' all need to go to a marriage counselor asap because y' all are living separate parallel lives. Y' all aren't living a united marriage. Y' all are co managing a household.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds like two children.

[Co-host]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

My chick, my money. It's like four year olds in kindergarten stealing a toy. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Or like trading lunch. Like, those are my Cheetos. Well, this is my bologna sandwich. Well, and then somebody gets a package of Twinkies and it's like, well, these are my. Like, man, y' all got. Y' all have bigger issues here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here.

[Co-host]

Because this is yalls wages and this is yalls debt and this is yalls inheritance, quite honestly. And until you're able to come together in that way, y' all are going to continue to run parallel lives and have bigger and bigger challenges.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. We are aligned on our desired future and we are in agreement on how we are going to get there, there. And then we don't have a separate life. That's why when you walk down the aisle, the preacher says, and now you are one. He didn't say, and now you are roommates with rights. And that's how that works.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I still, I still go back to it. You guys hear me. If you listen to the show all the time, you hear me quoted all the time. Because I was just fascinated because I had never heard it. And a buddy of mine that is in an old school church traditional, he pulled out the book of Common prayer and showed me the marriage vows from the old days. And you know, we all know, or most people know or have heard, in sickness and in health, richer, for poorer, you know, until death do us part. Right. We all kind of. That's kind of like. And that's part of. But there was another portion to it that somehow they quit using. Unto thee all my worldly goods, I pledge. In other words, we are now one. And when yo mama dies, we are going to get 75 grand. That's how that's going to work. And so it's a different thing.

[Co-host]

Cory, to answer your real question, how do I get her to understand this concept about paychecks? This isn't a math problem. And I think that's the challenge Is y' all are both solving two different problems. She is solving a. An emotional relationship problem. And you're running around trying to solve a math problem. And it's. It's kind of like trying to measure from here to over there using gallons. Both are good measurements, but it's the wrong measurement for the wrong application. This isn't a math problem. This is a marriage problem. This is a togetherness problem. Y' all are both walking around thinking the other person's better or worse than each other. And that contempt that, that somebody from on high is casting judgment or taking from the person down below you, it's just rotting out your marriage. And so you need to go sit with somebody and level out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. We are in agreement on our goals and we are going to combine all forces to get to those goals.

[Co-host]

And we're going to be honest about all of our debts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

And we're going to work on them together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep, exactly. Mike's with us in New Jersey. Hey, Mike. What's up? What's up? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

Good. So I have a question. I know you always preach the payoff your mortgage, if you can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, sir.

[Caller]

So I have, I have 690,000 in a high yield savings account. I have 233,000 in a trading account, stock trading account. I have about 95,000 in an IRA and my wife has about 150,000 in a 401k through her job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Way to go now.

[Caller]

Yeah. The mortgage on the home is 419,000. We don't have any debt, no credit card debt. Cars are paid off. The only debt we have is the mortgage. The mortgage rate, it's a 30 year loan at 4%. We're six years in. We have a daughter and that's all. I'm just trying to see if the wise decision is to pay the mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

If your house was paid off, would you go borrow money on it to put it into investments?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why not? It's the same thing.

[Caller]

I don't know. I just wouldn't do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the same.

[Caller]

Thing if I would borrow money.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you take money out of your investment and pay off the mortgage, it's the exact same mathematical transaction as to borrow on your home to put money into an investment. It's the opposite. Or just reverse engineering here.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I feel like also having the mortgages is a good write off also.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not.

[Caller]

Whereas if I didn't have it. No, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a horrible write off.

[Caller]

It's a Horrible write off.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you have 400,000 at what rate?

[Caller]

419,000 at 4%. It's a 30 year loan because you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have $16,000 in interest a year. And you know what that saves you on taxes? $6,000. So you're giving the mortgage company 16,000 to keep from giving the government 6. That's a dumb butt trade. Yeah, that's a write off.

[Caller]

Yes. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're trading dollars for 30 cents.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bad trade.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's how a write off work. You probably are actually itemizing. But only 8% of Americans itemize and that's the only time you can do a write off. But you got enough of an income.

[Caller]

I get paid on a, on a 1099.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're itemized. Yeah. You're not. You're not. Yeah, you're not. But yeah, you can.

[Caller]

Sorry. Anyway, so pay off the mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Number one. One, I'd pay off your mortgage today. Number two, here's why. I've never in 35 years talked somebody into paying off their mortgage and them come back and go, wow, I hated it so much I went and got a new mortgage. I've never in one time, tens of millions of listeners over 35 years that I recommend, never a single person has said, dave, that's a dumb. I felt so horrible not having a mortgage, I went and got me a new one.

[Caller]

I've never heard that one time investment property. No.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here's the other thing. We studied 10,000 millionaires. Not a single millionaire out of the 10,000 we talked to said, I made my money by borrowing on my home and investing that money. None of them said that's how I became a millionaire. Not one. That strategy is mythology in people's brains, but it never actually occurs in the real world when you get out in the wild. The number of millionaires that said I borrowed money on my house, invested it and that's how I got rich. Was precisely zero out of 10,000 of them that we talked to. Zero did that also zero. Said I got rich on my airline miles too. So there you go, you know, and so on and you know, this is what you're doing. So anyway, if I were in you, you, I'll just pay off my house. House. And if you hate it and I'm wrong, you can go get your mortgage and you won't hate it. You won't hate it.

[Co-host]

Yeah, there's something about. You got that little girl at home. There's something just telling you, man. There's something about going to bed at night knowing they can't ever take that house away from that little girl. Yeah, it just changes everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got a place to live? Yeah, got a place to live. It changes everything. It's very weird that we don't quantify the weight associated with this in our relationships, in our spirit, physically, the way you manifest in your body, the weight of debt. None of us quantify any of that. All we do is go, well, the mortgage rate's cheap, but dude, when you can breathe deeper because you haven't got.

[Co-host]

I call it my sleep tax. It if so, what if it's 2% difference or 3, I don't care. That's my sleep tax.

[Dave Ramsey]

I get to sleep really well. Happily. Nothing to think about that. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would it. Find what you [e-mail] insurance. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality number one best selling author and host of the very popular Dr. John DeLoney show on Ramsey Networks. He's my co host. Today, Jesse's in Texas. Hi Jesse, how are you?

[John DeLoney]

Hi.

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

My question is I'm 27 years old. I stay at home with my two young children. Right now my wife works. We're in about $100,000 worth of debt and I do like deliver food on the evenings to make some extra money. But really my question is how do I balance working? Because it's kind of when she comes in, I'm out the door. How we balance that marriage and family time with also trying to take care of this debt at the same time. What does she mean make about 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what kind of debt is the 100,000?

[Caller]

$60,000 is student loans, about $27,000 in a car and then the rest is credit card debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to sell a car.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, we, we looked into that. I know right now we're like upside down. I think about 10 grand in it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You need to sell a car.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got a car you can't afford and you don't drive a $27,000 car with $60,000 income.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I don't. I don't think you're really upside down. 10k on 27 and you know, unless you traded. Did you trade negative equity from the other deal into it?

[Caller]

No. No. We just didn't put anything down on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Yeah. Okay.

[Co-host]

And dude, I. I'm saying this because I love you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't.

[Co-host]

I don't know that you're in a position right now to be a full time stay at home dad.

[Caller]

Yeah, we thought about that. It's just that a lot of the daycares in this area, we're looking between 2 and 3k and that's probably about what I would be able to bring in a month.

[Co-host]

Why is that? Why is that?

[Caller]

I just. That's before. Before we had the first baby.

[Co-host]

No, not the daycare costs. I know. Daycare costs are just. Are breaking people's backs all over the country. I get that. I'm talking about, why do you think you could only make $2,000 a month? I don't buy that.

[Caller]

I mean. Yeah, I mean, that's just what I was before, Before I stopped working. Yeah, I was, I was bringing about 2400, which would be worth the cost of daycare I just worked into in a meat market, in a grocery store.

[Co-host]

That's what I'm leaning on. Like, if you made it your mission to like, like double and triple serve your family for two years and get this debt out of control, I'm just telling you right now, y' all aren't gonna be able to make it. Oh, and that kind of money and trying to get a home and raising two kids on 60K, it's, it's, it's not a, it's not a values question, dude. It's a math problem.

[Caller]

Yeah. And my, and my wife is in the process of trying to get. She's been in the same industry for about 10 years, and so she's trying to make more money herself. That's kind of why we.

[Co-host]

I know, but I want to push on you, brother. She's not on the phone. I want to push on you.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Co-host]

Like if, if, if you have capped yourself out and said the only thing I could ever do to serve my family is to work in a meat market and make $2,300 or $2,400 a month, then I'd want to spend some time with you over some nachos, man, and challenge that, cuz. I don't believe it.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

I think you're selling yourself way, way short. And if that's the case then for a season I'm going to work at a meat market and I'm going to come home, I'm going to high five my wife and kiss my kids and I'm to going back out because for centuries men have left their home for years to serve and honor their families. And that's what I got to do right now because we owe a hundred thousand dollars.

[Caller]

Yeah. And that's kind of where it. Cause like right now I'd probably make a thousand to $1,500 just doing deliveries. Like when she comes in the door, I leave. And so we figured that with the cost of the daycare, you know, then we're looking at really I need to bring $3,500 in or something along those lines before will you break even on me having a job or like a full time job, you know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, here's what John's saying. I don't get the full time job and you keep the delivery.

[Co-host]

Correct?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's every stinking night. If that's what you got to do to get yourself out, get your butt out of this problem. So yeah, here's the thing. The point of the conversation is you seem to think there's a process by which you can avoid pain here, there's going to be pain here. Here you just should choose it instead of letting it choose you. Yeah, the pain could be. Pain could be the ongoing financial stress and the toll that that takes on your marriage. And you don't do anything about it in the name of nurturing kids and in the name of I need to be home when my wife is home because I don't ever see her and how do I have life balance? Well, you have life balance when you get your butt cleaned up because you made a mess, that's when you have life balance. But right now you're not going to have life balance because your life is out of balance.

[Co-host]

And I'm not saying this. People can hear this as I'm shaming them. I'm not. I'm just telling the truth. Kids will based in the angst of a home that is buried financially. And so if you are staying at home and your wife is making 60k and y' all have 100 grand in debt, that that house is going to be a stressful, chaotic place, period. It just is. Because there's never going to be enough month at the end of your money ever.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the irony is the very thing you were trying to protect, you're cooking it.

[Co-host]

Yeah, you, they're Going to base in that stress and that anxiousness and that frustration and those, the fights and. Yeah, dude, there's just a season when you have to say, I, I got to get after it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm going to strap on a tool belt and it's not coming off till I get this mess cleaned up. Get after it.

[Co-host]

I want more than anything for families to be in a position to choose for somebody stay home. I love that with all my guts, but you have a math problem that you gotta solve, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you know those kids, they like to eat, so there's that. Okay. Wendy's in Oregon. Hey, Wendy, what's up?

[John DeLoney]

Hi there. My husband and I have three kids. We raised identical twin boys and our older, older daughter who just got married to a great guy with an amazing family. And so what we, we actually did financial peace years ago and went through that program. So we had already had. Sorry about that. We continue to tell the kids we will provide room and board for you when you go to college, but we will not have any money for you for college. We're sorry. The option was mom got to stay home with the kids. So we were able to do that, which means no college money, which was something they were always clear about. So our daughter was able to do that for her first two years before she got married. And now our boys have each chosen not to go to college. But they're heading into trades, which is great. So now we're at the point where we're happy to have them still live here, but we're trying to determine what that looks like for them paying us every month.

[Dave Ramsey]

They just need to go get an apartment.

[John DeLoney]

Do you think so?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I'm sure they do have some.

[John DeLoney]

Great friends and they love to go get.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I love my kids too, but they need to go get an apartment.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Matter of fact, the two boys could do it together because they're both going in the trades. Or twins are used to living together. They can split expenses and just go be roommates. That'd be awesome.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. And then our house is clean all the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And they can come over and visit. You can have dinner and.

[Co-host]

Wendy, can I tell you something? It's okay that you don't want them to live there. You're still a good mom, Mom. It's okay that you want them to be gone. The hurricane that is 18 year old boy. Like, you're not a bad mom, but I think Dave's right. I'd much rather you say, hey, guys, we're gonna pay your first two Months. Y' all get out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

At least that's what I would do if I was in your case.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And if you're going into the trades, better be working, son. Gotta pay rent. Show that's what you chose. Strap on the tool belt. So seems to be a theme. Foreign buying and selling a home is a big deal. And you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back. Back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent Brandon's in Michigan. Hey, Brandon, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. Hey, John. How are you both today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

Good. First off, thank you both for your time. Dave, thank you for again for giving me a couple minutes on the show. I'll try to be conscious of the time, but I do need a quick minute to just provide us some information.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay?

[Caller]

So first things first. I'm 27 years old. I dated and married my high school sweetheart, and we've been together for six years now. We got a couple beautiful boys at home. And a few years ago, my wife and I, we were renting and we were working, growing our family. And we were able to put money aside at the time and, you know, pay down our debt. So we got some student loan debt, our cars. The situation we found ourselves in a year and a half ago was our. Our middle child passed away. And it was sudsy and it was unexpected and unexplained, and obviously we weren't prepared for it and we weren't financially prepared.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old was your baby?

[Caller]

He was a year and a half old. Yeah, thanks.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you said it was SIDS or. What'd you say it was?

[Caller]

It's. It's sudsy. It's like sids, but for non infant, a little bit older.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I got you.

[Co-host]

I'm so sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my gosh. What was her name?

[Caller]

Thank you, you guys. His name was Carter.

[Dave Ramsey]

Carter. I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

Yeah, thank you, guys. Anyway, so here's ultimately my question. One of the outcomes of his loss was I needed to get my family out of the house. My wife held on to memories in each room, and it was haunting her. So I needed to get her out of the house. And we ended up purchasing a home. And it was at a Time when we really weren't ready to be purchasing a home. But here we are now, a year later. So ultimately, this is my question. I'm 27 years old. I'm trying to lead my wife. I'm trying to raise my other sons the best I can. My wife and I, we want to continue to be fruitful and to multiply and to grow our family. But what I'm finding is, even after allocating every single dollar of income I bring in, it's. We find that expenses continue to go up and we keep spinning our wheels. So my question is, how much is your house?

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your house payment? Honey?

[Caller]

Mortgage. Mortgage is about two grand, not including.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your take on monthly?

[Caller]

90 monthly. After taxes and benefits, it's about 50, 57, 50amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What benefits are coming out of your check?

[Caller]

I don't put anything away for retirement right now. It's just basically everything. Medical, dental, insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. And you've got vision and you've got. Got debt other than the home.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. We've got about 3,000 left. We only have one working car right now. It's got about 3,000 left on it. And I have 18,000 in student loans. And then, of course, there's the mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's wrong with the other car?

[Caller]

We don't owe anything on it. It's just. It's old. The alternator went out maybe eight months ago. And like I said, we're kind of spinning our wheels. I work from home, so it's not really needed right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now.

[Caller]

So we haven't put the money back into it to get it up and running.

[Dave Ramsey]

So kind of, what's it worth if you did get it up and running?

[Caller]

It's honestly a salvage title. After putting money into it, maybe I could sell it for three, four grand. But I'd have to deduct whatever expenses go back into it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, an alternator is not three grand.

[Caller]

Sure, Yeah, I understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Find a buddy that turns a wrench and go put an alternator on the thing, get it sold, and that'll pay off some of your debt. That's. That's thing one. But you've got bigger issues than that.

[Caller]

Yeah, sure. And again, we're. We're not drowning, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we try to be. Financially, you've had a tragedy, honey. I've had a trauma.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you guys are hurting, and it's just hard to do efficient mathematics and financial management when your heart is broken. It takes a minute. So give yourself permission to spin a little.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It may take a minute for the family to get back up. It should take a minute if you're not whacked.

[Caller]

And it is. It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, it takes a little while for y' all to get up. I don't disagree. Maybe you shouldn't have bought this house, but the house not killing you. You. It's not a. It's a little high, but it's not. It's not. It's not disturbing me horribly, but I don't think you're going to make tremendous leaps forward the year after you lose a one and a half year old.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Co-host]

What's the state of your wife? How's she doing?

[Caller]

We've grown a lot the last year and a half. And I'm sure you guys have your own experiences with grief. It just comes and goes. I'm at a point where I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

How's your wife doing, Brandon?

[Caller]

Not good, Dave. Yeah, but we're. We're okay. And, you know.

[Co-host]

Hold on. Brandon, Brandon, Brandon, Brandon. You keep saying you were okay, you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not okay, and that's. And that's okay. Yeah.

[Co-host]

It's okay to not be all right. But I want you to own it. Okay. It's. Let me put it this way. It's exhausting to try to continually be wallpapering over this hurt inside your house.

[Caller]

Right. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So here's the thing. If you don't make any financial progress for the next two years, 18 months, one year, but the two of you are able to move through some of this and get some healing during that time, that's a victory. Three.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think you're gonna do both at the same time, do you?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Co-host]

Yeah. Here's the. Here's the way I usually. When I sit down with a couple who's been exactly where you are, here's what I always tell them. The marriage and the life that y' all had is over now. It's over. And so the same goals, the same timelines, the same trajectories, the same career goals, everything changes after that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That.

[Co-host]

And so the challenge is, will we choose each other to stay married. And child loss is one of the big indicators of marriages that really, really struggle because people grieve differently.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

And y' all have probably experienced. I can't believe you're already moving on. And I can't believe you're still. Still can't get out of bed. Like, y' all have probably grieved at different, different, different trajectories because that's what grief is. It's just different for everybody. And so we're going to decide. We're going to rebuild a life together, and it's going to be really tough out of the gate. And so, like Dave said, dude, staying. Staying square at staying square for the next 24 months is a huge win. It's just recognizing we got a new marriage, we got a new house, we have a new everything, and we wanted five kids. Well, right now we might still have five kids, but they're going to be a bigger gap between. Between them. And there's a six year gap between my son and my daughter. Not how we drew it up. We had some losses along the way. That's what we got. And right now, our house is pretty magical place. And there was a lot of pain to get here. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

What's important for me is that you and your wife, a year into this, y' all go sit with somebody and y' all say, okay, we have been in the black hole for a year, rightfully. So go. We're going to stay in a dark place for a while, but we're going to keep the lights on. We're going to keep going. We're going to keep grinding. What does it look like to begin to not heal? But what does it look like to start turning some light switches on? What does it feel like? What is the pain associated with that? And what does that look like to start raising the blinds a little bit?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's with a good therapist sitting with.

[Co-host]

A professional that will walk with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

And you should feel a little bit crazy. You should feel a little bit stuck. You should feel a little bit like, why all that stuff is right and good. But yeah, Dave, you nailed it. Like, give yourself some grace during this season, man. You are a good husband and you're an incredible father, and you are keeping the lights onto that place and a man. It's an honor to talk to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so sorry. Yeah. If you can function perfectly in the middle of a tragedy like that, you're a psychopath.

[Caller]

Right.

[Co-host]

Right. Then I'd be worried about you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

If you're wondering what do we do? And what day is it? That's right where you should be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. If my brain's spinning out of my. Spinning out of control all the time, and I, you know, I get distracted and suddenly waves catch. A wave of grief catches me off guard and knocks me off balance, that would make you a normal human being. That's right.

[Co-host]

And good and holy.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right. Yeah. Because what you've been through is one of the most horrible things a human can experience. And I'm so sorry.

[Co-host]

Shouldn't be that way. Hate it for you, brother.

[Dave Ramsey]

I hate it. Yeah. Give yourself a little room. Get some help to walk through that. That's the best thing you can do for your money, oddly enough. But money's not our motivator in this con.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Co-host]

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. 6. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th and early bird prices start at 749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets [e-mail].

[Dave Ramsey]

Buying or selling a home in this crazy market is something else. If you want to know what the facts are on US Housing market trends, not what somebody's drama based opinion on Tic Tac is. If you want to know what's really going on, just go over to ramseysolutions.com market and we got it all there for you. And you can click the link in the show notes if you want to. It'll drop you right in there. Teresa is going in Ohio. Hi Theresa, how are you?

[John DeLoney]

Hi, Dave. Hi, Dr. John. Thank you for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[John DeLoney]

My question is both a financial and a moral one. My parents are both approaching 80 years old and not in the best of health. My father is adamant about a full blown funeral and he's very much against cremation. But the only thing they have prepped for is to buy the burial plots like 25, 30 years ago and they have nothing. They have no, they live with a family member, so they have, there's no assets that they own. They're both living off of Social Security. My dad on a disability, Social Security that he's had since 1989. And I guess just morally now that he's been in and out of a nursing home on a mild, mild start to the dementia. I just want to be prepared. I'm torn.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so you're torn because they're asking you to pay for the funeral?

[John DeLoney]

Well, there's no other means to do so and I have siblings and I don't. I've tried to talk to my dad. Because he is somewhat with us, you know, as far as conversation. And he just feels that cremations are morally wrong. And he thinks that everything's been paid for. And then my mom looks at me and says, no, it's not so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, does somebody look at him and say, it's not been paid for.

[John DeLoney]

We've tried. We've tried.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he just said, what? I don't care.

[John DeLoney]

He's in his mind. He thinks it's all been taken care of because he has his plot. He'll tell you where it's located and what tree it's by. And there's a lot more to that. And my sibling lost a wife by two, three years ago now. And he said, you know, it was over 20 some thousand dollars for the funeral.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's not true. No, shouldn't be.

[Co-host]

Yeah, it feels like you.

[Dave Ramsey]

It can be. It can, but it's not have to be. So what. What do you guys make? What are you. You and your husband. Are you married?

[John DeLoney]

Yes, I'm married. My husband and I are actually. We're on our second round of the Dave Ramsey plan. And I during COVID we fell off that plan. But we plan to be out of debt by November of this year. And our home off the first round.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent. What's your household income?

[John DeLoney]

We both make 75 a year each, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

150?

[John DeLoney]

Yes. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. So you know what I would do is I get the aggravation from you that this is dumped in your lap, so to speak. And I don't blame you for that emotion, but it's not 20 grand. I think if I'm you, I'm gonna go down to the funeral home and go, hey, what is the cheapest casket and the cheapest process? And I think you're gonna find, you know, five to seven. They sell caskets at Costco now.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, I did not.

[Dave Ramsey]

They do. And they're really cheap and they're nice. I looked at one the other day.

[Co-host]

If there's somebody on planet it's gonna get a casket at Costco. So it's. It's your one only Dave Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, man. I'm just. George. George. George would do it.

[Co-host]

George would do it, but he's a smaller casket.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, he needs a little cat. That's a small little casket. Yeah, but the. Yeah, I'm seriously, I think you're going to budget this thing down. It's not going to be a big old pile of money. And it's. The actual math is not going to be that Aggravating. But the emotion of the aggravation is still going to be there until you turn it loose, because it's not going to change. It's not going to way. Everything you've described is there's no out for this. And the good news is you make 150 and you're almost out of debt. You'll be able to, you know, so five grand, seven grand or whatever, and you just go, okay, I'm just going to plan on taking $5,000 or $7,000 out of my emergency fund or out of my savings or something when he passes. And I'm going to put him in the cheapest possible burial arrangement that is not cremated. And I would shop. And, you know, when you call a funeral home, go down there and talk to them and say, I'm going to go to two or three funeral homes, so y' all better give me the deal because I'm actually shopping price. I'm pre planning and this is all about price, so you better give me your cheapest one or you're not going to get this deal.

[Co-host]

Okay, and tell me about. You mentioned them, but let's say the total bill is 7,000 bucks and we're making that number up. Who knows? Why wouldn't you call your siblings and say, hey, everybody's going to pitch in 1500 bucks on this deal.

[John DeLoney]

I, I believe that two of them would financially be able to, but one would not. So I mean, and that's fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, okay, look, we're going to cover this and I'd like for everybody put in if you can. Yeah, and here's the bill. And by the way, once you get this information nailed down, it's all preplanned and you know exactly what it is because you're doing this while there's no emotion. You've not got a loss at this moment. And so you're pre planning it. And so we're shopping it like we're buying a car or something. We're shopping. It's very calculated. Go in and once you get the place, you go, okay, this place will do it for 5,600 bucks or whatever. And the number is. And it may go up a little during the time if he lived 10 years or something, you see some inflation. But send that number to your siblings and say, dad is expecting us to do this. I'm aggravated about it, but I've reconciled with that and I'm going to put in. And if you can put in your part of this, I'd appreciate it. I wish they had taken care of it, but they hadn't. And you could share that with them in whatever means you want to share. But I would give them the information and let them begin to process the emotion and the frustration and also have some time to prepare mathematically for.

[Co-host]

That's it. Me about the one sibling that you think couldn't pay anything. Why not?

[John DeLoney]

There's more children in the home and they're younger.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

There's like, there's quite a difference.

[Co-host]

I would ask you to not take that from them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Give them the opportunity.

[Co-host]

Give them.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd send it to everybody and let everybody choose.

[Co-host]

If I found out my brother and my sister went behind my back and did something because they quote, unquote, thought I couldn't handle it, that would be hard, hurtful. Now it would be hard for me to say, hey, I can't do this, but I can do this. And it's okay to say, let me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Know if you can do your part or what part you can do. That's how I would leave it. And just leave it open handed and then you be prepared to write the whole check emotionally.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's not going to be that much. It's not as much as your aggravation. Your aggravation. Yeah, your aggravation is valid. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just, it's, you know, they should have done a better job. Dad, gum.

[John DeLoney]

You know, and I want to prepare, you know, our kids and our grandkids for not obviously going that direction. And I appreciate everything I've learned from you. I did want to add that, you know, with my job, I've had a lot of stress, but I learned that and I've seen it in the last eight months and paying down my debt. I don't have to be a slave to my income. I'm going to be able to. To live and breathe a little bit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, breathe. Yeah. Get your breath back. Good for you. Proud for you. That's cool. It's a good question and it's a valid question. Thanks. Thanks for calling in with that. You know, it is make a will month. So, you know, it's time. You know, here's the thing. It is an act. We get these calls of this sort around death, around the estate, around wills or not having a will or somebody arguing or being cut out of the will or whatever all the time. And it is an act of love to your family to systematically, like a nerd, prepare everything having to do with your last 90 days. And you've got a will, you've Got a full blown estate plan. You've got everything. All your financial information is in a location, a singular location where everyone knows where it is and they can find it. And then it's just an. It's just execute the existing plan flawlessly and there'll be no problems. And you, you know, you've taken care. I do not believe in prepaying for a funeral. That's ridiculous. The cost is silly. You're better off to just put your money in a mutual fund. But it is smart to preplan it. And in this case, I would pre plan it in detail.

[Co-host]

And by the way, it does feel gross to quote unquote share shop. I get that. And if they're a smart business, they will take advantage of you not wanting to shop. And so they will inflate the prices they do. So let people know, just like Dave said, hey, we're going door to door here. We're going to run through a couple of of homes here. What does this cost?

[Dave Ramsey]

Dirty little secret is it's a huge margin.

[Co-host]

Huge margin. Huge margin. And so, yes, it feels gross. And do it anyway way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, Galatians 1, 10. Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ. Jordan Peterson said, you cannot hit a target that you refuse to see. You cannot hit a target if you don't take aim. And I'll add, if you don't pull the trigger, some people will go, ready, aim, aim. Aim. Aim. Aim. Oh, shut up and fire. Seriously. That's Dave Ramsey, though.

[Co-host]

Hey, you want to go get a cup of coffee? You talk about my idea, you want to get some more coffee? I just need to talk to 17 other people about my idea. It's like, dude, just start the business. Just go. Just go. You've got plenty of wisdom. Hey, you want to go to lunch?

[Dave Ramsey]

I quit.

[Co-host]

Start the business.

[Dave Ramsey]

It took me for about 10 years. I used to take meetings. These people would come in, they wanted to tell me about an idea, something that we could do and, you know, Ramsey should be doing. And they had this great idea and I finally quit because I finally figured out that ideas are a dime a dozen. People who do them aren't. Yes, they're harder to find. Ideas are everywhere.

[Co-host]

Everywhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

But people that actually execute, they're hard to find. Melissa's in Oregon. Hey, Melissa, how are you?

[John DeLoney]

Hello, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[John DeLoney]

Well, I Considering a change in the career a bit. I. I'm about three days away from completing my master's degree in Professional Clinical Mental Health Counseling.

[Co-host]

Ooh, terrible choice. Terrible choice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Says the guy with a PhD.

[Co-host]

Morons do that. But well done.

[John DeLoney]

Thank you. Thank you. It's been a long, hard journey. I've continued to work full time as I've gone through my master's program. But I did borrow for most of the schooling itself. And after about two and a half years now, and on top of clinical hours, I've been doing about 60 hours a week plus school, and I'm almost done. And my site is asking me to come on full time. And I'm nervous about giving up my job that I've had for 13 years with my benefits and my 401k and becoming a 1099 employee.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you make at your job?

[John DeLoney]

I bring home about 3,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

What would you make if you start 1099?

[John DeLoney]

Oh, that's the thing. It kind of depends on how many clients you have and how many show up.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, what do you think you're gonna make?

[John DeLoney]

I'll be doing 35 an hour to start, which I'm getting about 26 an hour.

[Co-host]

Why 35 an hour?

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you.

[Co-host]

I know I pay my therapist way more than 35 an hour.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like 135.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. I live in a rural area, which the benefit of staying at my site as I continue. Super. I. I will be become independently licensed. I live in a border town and I can get independently licensed in Idaho. It's about 10 minutes away at my site. And. But I'm also continuing. I'm taking specialized classes in play therapy to become a registered play therapist, and that requires a higher level of licensure.

[Co-host]

Okay, so here's what I would do if I was you. Okay, here's exactly what I would do. I would work out arrangements with my supervisor. Number one, if this is the only supervisor you have, I. I would shop around. And I know in a rural area you kind of do what you got to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you married?

[John DeLoney]

I am single.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so why do you have to stay there?

[Caller]

Well, what.

[John DeLoney]

The site. The, the. They are qualified for what's called the HRSA grant. So basically with two years of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Why do you have to stay in an area if you can't get but 35 doll? I'm going to go somewhere and get 135 an hour.

[John DeLoney]

They will also pay off my student loans, my 30k of student loans by being there at that site. Within two years of being employed.

[Co-host]

There is that after you've done your. After you've got full licensure. So after you've given them your 3000 hours plus your additional play therapy hours, then they're going to pay your loans off. After that?

[John DeLoney]

No, it starts after. After my degree is confirmed and I get licensure, which I'm probably, probably about a month away from.

[Co-host]

You're gonna have three or 3,000 hours postgraduate done, right?

[Caller]

Right.

[Co-host]

When you graduate.

[John DeLoney]

No. Idaho only requires a total of 10, excuse me, 1,000 hours with 400 being direct. And they will actually allow you to have your internship hours to qualify. So. And I've done all of that while I'm working full time therapy. I have to have that supervisor level.

[Co-host]

So here's what I would do. I would meet a need in your rural area, which is people who see clients on Saturdays and Sundays. And I would sign up personally for six to 12 months of really exhausting work seven days a week.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I would do it at a lot more than $35 an hour or I'm moving. I'm serious. That's like 1970 pricing. I have never. I know a bunch of marriage counselors that make 100 to 150 a year. A bunch of them. Okay. And if you can't do that there because you're convinced that the people in that area economically can't do that, then you need to do. You need to go somewhere else. I really would. But in terms of if you. Because the answer to the equation is yeah, no wonder you're nervous at $35 an hour and you don't have any customers. But if you're at 75 or $100 an hour, I'm not nervous anymore if I've got customers. Because you're going to make so much more than you make now that what little you lose from not having 401k, you can just go get your Roth IRA with a smart Vista Pro. It's not a big deal. Deal. You can set it up and you're 1099. So you can do a simple IRA as well, which is a 401k for single employee or small companies. And you can do a sep. There's all kinds of stuff you can do to replace that. Buy your own health insurance. You can replace benefits with money when you make more money. And so that's what the core of the $35 argument is. I want you to make more money. You've gone to all this trouble. You've gone to all this exhausting Process of doing your hours, doing everything while you're working full time. For God's sake, cash the check now. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Something about this arrangement doesn't sound right. And I would really want to check through to make sure you're not getting taken advantage of. So. Dave, it's not uncommon for graduates to have to pay a supervisor for their hours. But in. Some supervisors will say, hey, you come work for me. They're billing out at 100 bucks an hour or 100. Whatever. Whatever it is. But I'm going to pay you 35 bucks an hour while you work towards your hours. And you're paying me to supervise you.

[Dave Ramsey]

To sign off on 1099.

[Co-host]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's. There's two problems here. One is you've backed yourself into a corner by borrowing a bunch of money for a graduate program. You have a math problem. You may not be able to.

[Dave Ramsey]

$30,000 do what? She's $30,000 in debt.

[Co-host]

That's what I mean. But she may not be able to quit her job to go work for 35 bucks an hour.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Co-host]

At 1099. To pay off that $30,000 worth of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're saying that $35 an hour because they're taking their cut off the top of her.

[Co-host]

I'm saying if that's the case. She's saying that's not the case. What they're going to do is they're going to pay her way below market rate and then say, we're going to pay your student loans off.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's still not.

[Co-host]

That feels like a bad deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Still not a deal.

[Co-host]

Yeah, it feels like a not good deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

If I could have made twice as much money. I don't care. I'll pay my own student loans.

[Co-host]

That's right. That's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That and I can pay my own benefits and I can pay my own whatever.

[Co-host]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But.

[Co-host]

Or triple the amount of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Don't sell yourself short. That's what we're trying to say. Make sure you make sure you get the details ironed out and that. And really, when making any decision, the more options you have, the more power you have. And the higher the quality of the decision will be. When you've narrowed it down to one possible outcome. You don't have any power. Power. And you don't have. And you have a higher probability of making the wrong decision. And the meaning. I'm going to own. This is the place. She's got all worked out that this is the place and it doesn't have to be the place. It could be something else.

[Co-host]

And they know that you owe 30,000 bucks. They also know that you've decided they're the only option, which means they can kind of pay you whatever they want and that's never a good place to find yourself.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Co-host]

So. But all I'd say is I'm glad you're going to be a therapist. We need more good ones and especially in rural communities, man. But I'm with Dave, man. If you can retain autonomy, please, please go do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, if you're clear and you're able to get licensure and just go, then go. That's what you need to do. That puts the sour the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.