Take Debt Off The Table And Stay The Course

Summary

The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary: "Take Debt Off The Table And Stay The Course" (Released July 21, 2025)

Hosts: Ken Coleman, Dr. John DeLoney, and George Camel
Description: The Ramsey Show empowers listeners to build wealth and take control of their financial lives, regardless of past monetary mistakes. In this episode, Dave Ramsey and his team of experts address listeners' pressing financial concerns, offering actionable advice to overcome debt and achieve financial stability.

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1. Opening Banter and Introductions (00:00 – 01:15)

The episode kicks off with light-hearted interactions among the hosts. Dr. John DeLoney and George Camel engage in a playful exchange about playing doctors on TV, setting a friendly and approachable tone for the show.

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2. Caller 1: KC from San Antonio, Texas – Dealing with Stolen Trust Fund and Debt (01:15 – 09:01)

Caller Profile:

• Name: KC
• Age: Approximately 50
• Situation: KC, a former child actor, discovered in his 40s that his trust fund established in 1982 had been stolen by his parents. The theft has led to substantial debt, with a current judgment exceeding $700,000 due to accruing interest.

Discussion Highlights:

• Emotional Impact: KC expresses feelings of anger, disappointment, and frustration, particularly in interactions with others.
• Financial Strain: Following a layoff from a top-tier energy company after a downturn in 2024, KC is grappling with rebuilding his life amidst significant debt.

Advice Provided:

• Emotional and Mental Health:
  George Camel emphasizes the importance of grieving the loss of trust and advocates for professional therapy to address deep-seated trauma.
  Notable Quote:

  "Every second you think about your mom and dad is a choice to be miserable in your present because you can't change one thing about how they ruined your life, period."
  (Timestamp: 06:21)

• Debt Management:
  George Camel advises utilizing the Debt Snowball method—listing debts from smallest to largest and aggressively paying them off. He underscores the necessity of taking ownership of financial actions without relying on external factors like changing jobs or obtaining additional income.

Conclusion: KC is encouraged to seek professional help to manage his emotional distress and to commit fully to the debt repayment plan outlined by the hosts.

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3. Caller 2: Engaged 63-Year-Old Widow – Combining Finances and Managing Medical Debt (10:23 – 19:54)

Caller Profile:

• Age: 63
• Situation: A recently engaged widow contemplates combining finances with her fiancé, who has significant medical debt ($180,000) stemming from a botched surgery. She owns a home with $250,000 in equity and anticipates an inheritance of $4-5 million.

Discussion Highlights:

• Financial Disparity: The wealthy caller has substantially more in assets compared to her fiancé, raising concerns about debt management and future inheritance.
• Prenuptial Agreements: The conversation delves into the necessity and emotional implications of creating a prenup to protect assets and outline financial responsibilities.

Advice Provided:

• Due Diligence:
  George Camel strongly recommends pulling and reviewing both parties' credit reports before making financial commitments.
  Notable Quote:

  "There's got to be some due diligence... I want you to do your due diligence. And it's not unloving, it's not unromantic... it's none of those things."
  (Timestamp: 15:04)

• Premarital Counseling and Prenups:
  The hosts advocate for premarital counseling to facilitate open discussions about finances and recommend considering a prenup to safeguard against potential future disputes over inheritance and debt.

• Inheritance Protection:
  George Camel advises setting clear terms for inheritance to prevent external family members from claiming a portion due to the financial disparity.

Conclusion: The caller is guided to engage in thorough financial discussions with her fiancé, consider legal protections, and seek premarital counseling to ensure both parties are aligned in their financial goals and responsibilities.

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4. Caller 3: Lauren in Detroit, Michigan – Struggling with Debt Repayment (67:32 – 95:13)

Caller Profile:

• Name: Lauren
• Situation: Lauren is battling $63,000 in various forms of debt, including high-interest credit cards and medical bills. Despite making payments, she feels trapped by accruing interest and anticipates challenges during her business's seasonal downturn.

Discussion Highlights:

• Debt Snowball Challenges:
  Lauren feels that her debt is not decreasing despite making payments, leading to confusion about her financial progress.

• Seasonal Income Fluctuations:
  Her business experiences significant seasonal variations, causing reliance on credit cards during slow periods, which exacerbates her debt.

Advice Provided:

• Reframing Mindset:
  Dr. John DeLoney advises Lauren to shift her focus from mounting debt totals to the progress she is making through the Debt Snowball method.
  Notable Quote:

  "You're making progress. You're making progress."
  (Timestamp: 48:29)

• Increase Income:
  George Camel and Dr. DeLoney emphasize the importance of augmenting income to accelerate debt repayment. Recommendations include:

  • Taking on Additional Work: Seeking part-time jobs or side gigs to boost earnings during off-peak seasons.
    George Camel:

  "You can go out and work a little overtime... walk through with your actions."
  (Timestamp: 48:44)

  • Selling Assets:
    Suggesting the sale of depreciating assets like her current vehicle to eliminate high-interest debt and reallocate funds towards more productive financial goals.

• Prioritizing Debt Repayment:
  Advising continued focus on eliminating smaller debts first to build momentum and reduce overall financial strain.

Conclusion: Lauren is encouraged to adopt a proactive approach by increasing her income and eliminating high-interest debts. The hosts reinforce that her situation, while challenging, is manageable through disciplined financial strategies and leveraging additional income streams.

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5. Caller 4: Sarah in Charlotte, North Carolina – Financially Exiting an Abusive Marriage (55:14 – 74:38)

Caller Profile:

• Name: Sarah
• Age: 50
• Situation: Sarah is seeking advice on financially exiting her marriage. Her husband, in his mid-60s and retired, controls all financial information and actions, making it difficult for her to access their prenuptial agreement and joint assets. The marriage is emotionally and financially abusive, with custody of her three high-school-aged children contested.

Discussion Highlights:

• Financial Control:
  Sarah's husband maintains sole control over financial documents and assets, contributing to an abusive and restrictive marital environment.

• Custody Battles:
  The ongoing mediation process has resulted in Sarah losing custody of her children, adding emotional distress to her financial struggles.

Advice Provided:

• Legal Intervention:
  The hosts strongly advise Sarah to consult with an attorney to navigate the complexities of exiting an abusive marriage.
  George Camel:

  "If somebody wants to be controlling and abusive like that, you're in control."
  (Timestamp: 56:18)

• Documentation and Disclosure:
  Emphasizing the importance of legal action to compel disclosure of financial documents, even if it means undergoing exhaustive legal processes to retrieve hidden assets.

• Emotional Support:
  Acknowledging the profound emotional toll and encouraging Sarah to seek support systems, including counseling and legal assistance.

• Protecting Children’s Well-being:
  Highlighting the necessity of prioritizing the children's emotional and financial stability during the divorce process.

Conclusion: Sarah is urged to take decisive legal steps to regain control over her finances and secure custody of her children. The hosts empathize with her situation, emphasizing the importance of professional legal guidance and emotional support to navigate the challenges of exiting an abusive marriage.

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6. Caller 5: Michael in Memphis, Tennessee – Retirement Planning and Debt Management (76:33 – 87:10)

Caller Profile:

• Name: Michael
• Age: 54
• Situation: Michael aims to retire by January 2027 with a stable income comparable to his current earnings. He has accumulated a net worth of over $1 million, including retirement accounts. However, he faces challenges in ensuring his retirement funds will adequately replace his current income.

Discussion Highlights:

• Retirement Income Streams:
  Michael's retirement plan includes a pension of $80,000 annually and a 457 plan projected at $450. However, he is concerned about maintaining his current standard of living post-retirement.

• Asset Management:
  Michael is contemplating selling his home to leverage its equity for a down payment on a new residence, balancing between retaining low-interest rates and avoiding the pitfalls of being a long-distance landlord.

Advice Provided:

• Asset Liquidation vs. Rental:
  The hosts unanimously recommend selling his current home rather than renting it out, citing the complexities and potential financial strain of managing a rental property from a distance.
  George Camel:

  "Sell it for market value... you're two hours away and you don't know anything about home repairs."
  (Timestamp: 70:18)

• Financial Planning:
  Encouraging Michael to engage with real estate professionals through Ramsey Solutions to facilitate the sale and purchase process seamlessly.

• Investment and Emergency Funds:
  Advising the allocation of proceeds from the home sale to bolster retirement savings and establish or replenish emergency funds to ensure financial security.

• Emotional Detachment from Assets:
  Helping Michael overcome the emotional attachment to his low-interest-rate mortgage by focusing on the broader financial benefits of selling and reallocating his assets.

Conclusion: Michael is guided to prioritize selling his home to free himself from the complexities of rental management and to reallocate his equity towards a more secure financial future. The hosts stress the importance of professional assistance in making informed real estate decisions and reinforcing his retirement income streams.

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7. Additional Segments and Advertisements

Throughout the episode, the hosts intersperse valuable listeners' financial advice with brief advertisements for partners aligned with financial health, such as Churchill Mortgage, DeleteMe.com, and Mama Bear Legal Forms. These promotions are carefully excluded from the summary to maintain focus on content-rich segments.

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8. Closing Remarks and Resources

In the concluding sections, the hosts promote upcoming events, such as the Financial Peace University Coordinator Rally, and offer resources for listeners to assess their financial standing through quizzes and webinars. They also encourage continuous engagement with Ramsey Solutions' tools and professional advisors to support listeners' financial journeys.

Key Takeaways:

• Emotional Health is Crucial: Addressing the psychological impact of financial struggles is essential for long-term financial recovery.
• Debt Snowball Method: Prioritizing debt repayment from smallest to largest can build momentum and reduce overall financial stress.
• Due Diligence in Financial Decisions: Whether entering a new marriage or making significant financial moves, thorough evaluation and professional advice are paramount.
• Proactive Income Management: Increasing income streams and responsibly managing assets are critical strategies in overcoming debt and securing a stable financial future.
• Legal Empowerment: In situations of financial control and abuse, seeking legal counsel is vital to regain financial independence and protect one's assets and loved ones.

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For more insights and personalized financial advice, visit www.ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Ken Coleman]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is the Ramsey show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their profession and their relationships. We're so excited to have you with us. The phone number for you to jump in today is 8882-5522-5888-8252. Esteemed Dr. John DeLoney. I am not a doctor, but I've played one on tv. Ken Colon, that's not true. I've never played a doctor on tv, but I would, I'd like to see.

[George Camel]

You're the resident doctor back there when.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We'Re trying to figure out how the world works.

[George Camel]

I think you have a doctorate in helping me navigate politics, which is a gift. I don't know how any of this stuff works, like pragmatically and mechanistically and you help with that a lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They should release our conversation.

[George Camel]

They should not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because as we sit together, unemployable. But yes, we do solve it all.

[George Camel]

Man, if they would just ask us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's true, we would help. But hey, we're here to help you win. Today we start off in San Antonio, Texas, where KC Is joining us. KC how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir. How are you today?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, we're having a blast. What's going on with you?

[Ken Coleman]

My starting question is I had about $50,000 stolen from me by the parents and I'm now in a lot of debt. And I'm trying to figure out how to navigate the complex waters of starting over life. I used to work at a top tier trillion dollar company in Texas. And after everything that happened, I'd like to try to get back to a life that I enjoy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, you just dropped a bomb on us and I feel like we're missing a sizable amount of detail. So let's start with sir, you, you're 50 or somewhere around 50 and your parents stole 50,000 from you. And somehow you have to start your life over, bridge the gap for us. First of all, how did they steal that money from you?

[Ken Coleman]

Great question. We got to kind of rewind a long time ago. I back in the today, what they call a child influencer, back in the day, they called child actors. I used to be a child actor. I had a trust fund. That trust fund was stolen from 1982. I didn't find out about that theft until way later than basically in my 40s. And when I found out about that theft, which is currently in excess, which has a judgment in excess of $700,000 because of the money that was constantly accruing interest because of the judgment. When I approached the parents about that theft, I had a joint account with Fidelity Mutual that I was putting money into. And this is where the word theft is probably a gray area because it was a joint account with not just myself, but the parents were also on it. And when I approached them about the first incident, they said, you know what? Why don't we empty this fund, this money that we have here, we'll keep that money, and then we'll just use it to kind of help assuage me into seeing it their way rather than my way.

[George Camel]

That makes no sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

None. And where's the judgment stand? Where's that stand?

[Ken Coleman]

So the current judgment is active. It currently gets 8, 9% interest every year from 1980.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But what I'm saying is they don't have it.

[George Camel]

It can't pay you.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no. It's. They. It's definitely against them in the courts.

[George Camel]

I know, but you're never gonna see that money they don't have.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah, no, no, they'll never know.

[George Camel]

Okay, so your parents have been crooks for your whole life.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct. And lying to me about it. The whole.

[George Camel]

Right, right. So, like it. It's that old. It's that old wives tale. Like there's a rattlesnake in a paper sack and you put your hand in there and got bit. And now at age 50, you're surprised when you put your hand back in there, you got bit again. That's just who they are. They steal from their.

[Ken Coleman]

I would. I would say more like I was living in a sack with rattlesnakes getting.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bit all the time.

[Ken Coleman]

And when I left the very fair, they poured the rest of the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so let's skip forward to today's call and how we can help you. That was about 10 years ago that you discovered that you worked at one point for a trillion dollar company. How much money were you making and what were you doing?

[Ken Coleman]

I actually was doing really well there. It was a fantastic company, energy company.

[George Camel]

Why don't you work there anymore?

[Ken Coleman]

I do not, unfortunately. Why? It's a jit manufacturing company. So as they sell more, they produce more, they hire more, as.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, you're not answering the question. So let me do this. There's a reason why I'm asking these questions so that John and I can kind of get where you are. I'm going to ask you again. How much money were you. Tell me how great the company was. Just answer the question. How much Money were you making at your highest moment with this company?

[Ken Coleman]

75K is production manager and you were.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, great. Now why aren't you working there? What is the reason that you left or you were told to leave? What happened?

[Ken Coleman]

The company had a downturn in 2024. They were producing less vehicles.

[George Camel]

You got laid off.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so now how can we. What is the key thing that you would like John and I to help you with today?

[Ken Coleman]

Because of the debt and the theft? It gives you a sense of anger, disappointment and frustration as you deal with normal people, which isn't fair to the normal people. So my question is maybe not just for me, but for all these child influencers out there that are going to have the same thing happen to them. Hopefully not. What is it that you can do after these situations to. To kind of get back on your feet?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so, yeah. So, Dr. John, help me with mental and emotional.

[George Camel]

So here's the thing. You have to a grieve the fact. And we don't have a psychology for that in our culture.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I hear you.

[George Camel]

I hear you. You have to grieve the fact that your parents should have been your chief advocate and that money, you should have a million dollars in an account right now. You don't. Right. And every second, listen to me carefully. Every second you think about your mom and dad is a choice to be miserable in your present because you can't change one thing about how they ruined your life, period. And I'm going to press on you a little bit. They have nothing to do with you getting laid off. None.

[Ken Coleman]

No, sir.

[George Camel]

They have nothing to do with you not getting a job the following week, throwing boxes at Walmart just to bridge the gap right now, correct that grief. And I would say you're probably being pretty, pretty kind to them right now on the phone. The trauma you endured as a kid, because parents don't just steal from their kids in a vacuum. You probably lived in a hell too, right? So that stuff you're going to get with the therapist and work through, because that's real. And you have a math problem. And so the key to, let me say it this way, when your body knows you're not in control, when you're not driving the car, that is your life. It has all kinds of ways try to keep you safe. Anxiousness, depression, dysthymia, over and over, fatigue, chronic pain, all these other ways to try to keep you safe from what's actually like melting you from the inside out. So what does that mean for you is a, you got to sit down with a professional and say here's what happened to me because that's wired into your nervous system. Number two, you have to choose. I'm not going to carry around my a cinder block that is my mom and dad every day of my life because it's just ruining you. The third thing is you have to go do and this is AA language the next right move which is list out your debt, smallest to largest. You borrowed that money, not them, you borrowed it. I gotta go get one job, two job, three jobs and begin chipping away at this thing. If you made 75 grand at a trillion dollar tech company, there's going to be another tech company in Texas that will hire you, I promise you. And maybe not making 75 to start with, but they'll pick up and you have to start walking through with your actions. The next right move to get this crap tail, it's about you taking ownership of what comes next.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Lets be real. Buying your first home can feel like reading Ikea instructions upside down. It's confusing and stressful and you have no idea if that cam bolt is supposed to go there. And if you try and buy a home with some click and go lender, well good luck because you're just another line on their spreadsheet. So here's the thing. When I was buying my home, I didn't want to just be a loan number. I wanted a relationship with a real person. Someone who was willing to answer all of my questions along the way and understood my goal of paying off my mortgage fast. And that's why I love Churchill Mortgage. They don't rush you, they don't try to sell you more house than you need. They listen. They walk with you step by step and offer guidance so that you understand what you can actually afford. So they teach you how to do it the right way so that you have margin and peace with the goal of becoming completely debt free. So if you want rock solid advice on how to buy a home the right way, connect with a Churchill loan specialist [e-mail] that's Churchill Mortgage. This is a paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org equal housing lender Aaron is up in Washington D.C. erin, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, how are you doing today?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're having a blast. What's going on with you?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I am a 63 year old widow and I just got engaged and I am wondering after marriage should I combine my finances with my soon to be husband?

[George Camel]

Yes, yes and congratulations.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, how about that?

[Ken Coleman]

And the thing is, he was my high school crush, bro.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Come on.

[George Camel]

I love. I'm a huge Dawson's Creek fan, so I love this. This is awesome.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, great referen. I think America wants to hear a short version of how this happened. Obviously, horrific loss for you. How did you reconnect with the high school crush?

[George Camel]

Guaranteed Facebook.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, it was request John DeLoney one. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nice. Okay, and how. How long have you guys been dating before getting engaged?

[Ken Coleman]

We started in November and we got engaged a little over a month ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Are you living in the same community?

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no. He. I am on the East Coast. He's in the Midwest.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's going to happen?

[George Camel]

Have you all seen. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's very expensive to retire in Washington, D.C. so I will sell my home. I'll buy a less expensive home in the Midwest where he lives and where my family's from, and then I'll be completely debt free. The only debt I have now is my mortgage because my late husband was a Dave Ramsey fan. Oh. And set me up for success even after he left.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So when are you guys getting married?

[Ken Coleman]

Next year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. The way you said that, I could have heard it wrong, but the way you said it, it sounded like, I'm gonna buy a home. There was no we.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, I have quite a bit more money than he does, and he has $180,000 in medical debt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Now, the thing is, it was a botched surgery. We had proof the surgery was botched. I'm trying really hard to get him to sue the hospital for malpractice, because my thought is, in all likelihood, they will just drop the debt and we can each go on our merry way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, let me ask you this. Did you combine finances with your first husband?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. We shared everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I'm going to guess here, the only thing that's giving you pause, which would create this urgency to call us today and say, hey, should I. Is this $180,000 in medical debt?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, because otherwise he's very responsible financially. Except for the medical debt and his mortgage. He lives debt free. He does not use credit cards. He pays cash for everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you guys planning to live in this house that you buy?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. John, I. This is. I feel like this is in your lane here. This is not a money thing.

[George Camel]

Okay, Aaron, how much it is kind of. Aaron, how honest can I be with you? Can I be direct since we're best friends now?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He says that to everybody.

[George Camel]

I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I do.

[George Camel]

I don't have any best Friends. So I try to pick them up from show callers. Here's the deal I want. I guess I wouldn't have a job if old flames who reconnected on social media told each other 100% of the truth. And so what I hear a lot of is, oh, yeah, no, I know he is fill in the blank. Or I know she is fill in the blank. And then people move across the country, they sell out, they cash out, they send money, they help with X, Y and Z. And then there's this other shoe that drops. So I guess what I want to say for you and for everybody listening, and you may have already done this, is there's got to be some due diligence. What does that mean? Before you sell your house and buy a new one next to him, I would love for you all to pull, pull credit reports together and walk through it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you guys done that?

[Ken Coleman]

I. Probably not yet, but. Okay. But I do plan on sitting down and doing that. And as far as selling my house and moving there, this is my hometown. My parents are still alive. All my family is there. I have nobody here.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you're going there anyway.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's just do that anyway.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Perfect. Perfect.

[George Camel]

Okay. The second thing is, is you making peace with the following. If you marry him, that 180 grand is yalls debt. And often the money becomes the proxy war for, I want to marry this guy, but I also want to marry a man with a little bit of initiative. And he won't even, he won't even call a lawyer for 5,000 bucks and have him write a letter to clear 180 grand.

[Ken Coleman]

Right? And, and I am going to work on him on that when I see him next month.

[George Camel]

You can't work on him. You can say, I would, I would challenge you to use this language in this next marriage. That's going to be my last one I'm ever a part of. Here's what I'm looking for in a partner, and it's a big deal to me that for me to feel safe is that I'm married to a guy with some initiative, that when some, when grave injustice is done to somebody, including him, that he's on the phone making it right, Then he gets to. If you come in and say you need to and you need to and you need to, man, he's going to clam up like, like all of us would, right? Because he's going to feel the shame and the frustration and the, hey, can we just move past this? And hey, by the way, you've got a whole bunch of money. You can just pay it off when we get. And it's you saying, here's what I want in this new marriage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Isn't it okay for her to ask for closure on this issue one, because it gives her massive heartburn. Yes. To realize that she might be inheriting 180,000. It doesn't make it about love or relationship, but just her fear of this issue. That's what I was getting at that. It seems like they're on board with money. Theoretically, you guys are on board, but yeah, the idea of living separate, finances and all that. Just because he's got this. By the way, you described it as son his fault.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, any one of us could go in for a surgery and it get botched and we're stuck. You know, it's like no one did anything irresponsible here.

[George Camel]

But that also sounds it. Also, I'm telling you, Aaron, I hope I'm wrong. It sounds like a story too. Like, oh, yeah, we'll just get it taken care of. They screwed this up and we'll get it squared. Because if it was that easy, if they botched it, I've heard of head of hospitals coming in and saying, hey, we're going to clear this debt and we're also going to pay you $50,000 as some sort of entry settlement to just end this thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I had the same feeling, John.

[George Camel]

So there's, there's something.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Aaron, I don't want her to bank on that. It feels like, Aaron, the way you set that up, you're banking on, well, you know, we get a lawyer involved, they're probably going to wipe it away. And when you said it, I went.

[George Camel]

They probably would have if it was truly that cut and dry. Yeah, all that. All I want you to hear me say is I want you to do your due diligence. And it's not unloving, it's not unromantic, it's not un Christian. Whatever you want, whatever adjective you want to put there. It's none of those things for you to say, hey, we're both going to bring our credit reports to the table. I want to see where we both are. And if he says, oh, we don't need to do that. I told you, I'm debt free. Say, yeah, I know, I want to see this, what I'm walking into. And then he gets to decide, do I want to be married to an amazing woman or am I going to let my ego run wild? And I may not have been telling the Full truth. Here's the second piece. When you say there's wealth in equity, you've got way more money than he does. Tell me, how much way more do you have?

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. He has about a half a million dollars in his retirement account, and he has a home that has maybe a quarter million in equity.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I have about a half million dollars in equity in my home, and I have a million and a half dollars in retirement accounts and other investments and savings.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And the other thing I mentioned is my parents are still alive, but I'm going to inherit between 4 and 5 million dollars when they pass.

[George Camel]

This is one of the rare moments when I'm going to strongly recommend you walk in with a up. And here's why. Let's say he's totally on the up and up. When there is four or five or $6 million difference, then he's going to have a cousin somewhere that thinks he just won the lottery or he's going to have a parent or a kid. And. And I'm just telling you from years of doing the show, my fear is you're going to walk out there, he's going to sell his place, he's going to move into your house, your parents are going to pass away, and then if he disappears, he gets going to take half of it. So that would be my recommendation because there's such a gap there that you all sit down and discuss, hey, when my parents die, here's how this is going to go. And it's not to say you're not going to combine.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I got to jump in real quick, ask you a question. Would you at least Recommend Premarital counseling? 1 million before we think prenup.

[George Camel]

I think you do premarital counseling before you do everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want an icky feeling about the prenup.

[George Camel]

Do you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I do.

[George Camel]

Let's talk about when we come back. I would love.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'd like. I'd like to learn more about.

[George Camel]

I'd love that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Perfect. All right, we'll talk about it.

[Ken Coleman]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant, and husband didn't have life insurance. And. And I'm Like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If.

[Ken Coleman]

If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out, how am I going to afford childcare? How do I. How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like, and. And it takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like, when you have to think through.

[George Camel]

How am I going to pay my.

[Ken Coleman]

Bills, how am I going to do it next week. Yeah. In the middle of all that grief, like, it's just. It is. It's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids, that I'm, like, so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re upping it because I'm like, I just want it there. Like, there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies, it doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud. And you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza there really is. So that is one thing to do, to say I love you to your family. So we've used Zander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282. Or go to zander.com.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so we were talking to our last caller about moving into a second marriage. She has far more net worth.

[George Camel]

He's got some millions more.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Millions more. Four to five million. It was the range. And John recommended a prenup. And, and I, I'm. I'm bringing this question back up because I had an initial icky thought, and now some of you hardcore Ranger fans go, well, Dave talks about that. And it's not that I disagree with Dave. I just, in full admission, I'm a purist, and I don't like prenups. I don't like the concept. I understand them, but it just felt gross to me. And in this particular situation, the amount of money felt like, huh. And so I Wanted to be able to follow up here, John, on this. Why is it that that's the position that you took on that one?

[George Camel]

So, and I'm with you the idea. I don't have one. I don't have a pretty. And so I'm a purist when it comes to speaking about. And then what I do at my house. Right. I don't have one. We got married without a net. Right. And so I think there is what I would call an over prenup. Shazation is that I just made that word up completely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I like a lot of syllables where.

[George Camel]

It'S like this thing you got. I don't necessarily agree with that. When you come in with different. With this much of a. What I call a wealth inequality, somebody's going to be a multi millionaire, and then somebody's not. It's less about that particular couple. And I want to protect that couple and their goals and their life from a brother who's not well, a sister who's not well, cousins who come out of the woodwork, who accidentally turn an ankle on your property and sue you for a million dollars and burn your umbrella policy. It just becomes a way to say, hey, look, my parents are going to pass away. They're going to leave me $5 million. These are earmarked for their grandkids, for my kids. And I want that in writing so that a cousin doesn't think or a wacky neighbor or an old best friend doesn't feel like, ooh, we just won the lottery because you married somebody who's super wealthy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, I totally track. Now, let me turn this to the relationship guy. You advise a lot of marriages. You're writing on this issue right now. Okay. How then does she reveal, hey, I want a prenup. How do you. In other words, I have an icky feeling when I hear it for sure. And you would as well. So then how do you relationally bring that up to have the least amount of negative impact, I guess, is the.

[George Camel]

Question, I think, what I would do. Let's make the assumption, and I don't know this about that caller, that she's got two kids, right? Two grown kids who then have their own grandkids. Right. I would sit down and say, hey, this money from my parents is earmarked and designated for their. Their heirs, not for us to spend wildly. You have $750,000 net worth. As she said, I'm going to come in with about a million dollars. We're going to have a great life together. And maybe when they pass we're going to take this money for a particular goal for us. But I want you to know this money is designated in our lineage for our kids and our grandkids or whatever. And that to me is a way that if he can't hear it, I like that, hey, wait a minute, I want 5 million. Now there's something revealing that's fair.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what I like what you did there is you actually took the emotion out of it by saying this is just a function of this money is over here we are over here.

[George Camel]

We're here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. All right. I like that very, very.

[George Camel]

And we, we're going to take some of it. Yeah, we're gonna have some fun.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, right. Hey, you know, we're constantly hearing in the headlines, John all the time, right? Is, is Powell gonna, you know, lower interest rates, which isn't always tied. In fact, it's rarely tied to what you see in the mortgage rates. Those are tied to the ten year treasury bonds. Okay. So some of you are kind of going, hey, what determines.

[George Camel]

Ken, stop using facts and data.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, right? If you want to know where mortgage rates are going to go, pay attention to the news about the 10 year treasury note. And that's going to help you because it's, it's very, very common that when the treasury notes drop, so do mortgage rates. And conversely, when they go up, mortgage rates go up. So that's just a kind of an FYI. But we hear about the news all the time about real estate market. And here's the deal. For those of you that are thinking about buying or selling a home, we acknowledge and want to make sure you understand this may be the biggest financial transaction most of you make. You don't want to do it on your own. And so we want you to be tied into experts. If you go to ramseysolutions.com market ramseysolutions.com market we've got a ton of free tools up to date market trends to help you buy a home or sell with confidence. So make sure you use that valuable resource so that you do not walk into this major decision blindly and do it on your own. Ramsey. Okay, Richard is up in Atlanta, Georgia. Richard, talk to us.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, how are you guys?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're having a blast.

[Ken Coleman]

I have a very strange scenario and I know that it's very weird. I'm an airline pilot and I travel all over the place and sometimes I can be in two or three countries in the same day on a regular basis. It is very unsafe to carry cash and also couldn't carry Cash. Because I can't really carry six or seven different currencies. And it may be one week that I'm in Barbados and the next week I'm in London. Well, you can't carry so many currencies in your money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

And your debit card gets shut down on a regular basis. I've tried debit cards listening to your show, and that doesn't work either. So what's the best solution for paying for lunch in Barbados and, you know, dinner in Jamaica later in the same day without a credit card? Let me ask a silly weird scenario.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. You are very, very complex. I'm going to ask a silly question because I don't understand. I don't. So when you are traveling for said airline, do you have a per diem or. No. You're responsible for your own personal meals.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're getting a per diem, but your per diem is basically just a blank run of money that you're given. So you have to go use your own credit card. And if you spend more than the per diem, well, that's on you. If you spend less, well, that's on you, too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So they don't give it to your. Oh, you don't have a company card and you don't have a. It's. It's. You're responsible for the transaction and you get reimbursed, Correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And they just put a line item on your paycheck that here's per diem that you were gone X number of hours a month. And you know, here's your per diem at this rate.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, I'm going to ask another seemingly silly question. My wife and I took a European extravaganza. We country hopped a couple of years ago. I use my debit card in every country. I guess what I'm not understanding is if I couldn't do that, how come you can't do that?

[Ken Coleman]

So it depends on the country and your credit. Your debit card can get shut down. So if you go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Shut down by who?

[Ken Coleman]

The bank? The bank called it fraud alert. I tried to get.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, no, here's the deal. My wife and I visited five countries on the trip I just told you about. And we called our bank ahead of time and told them these are the countries we're going to. And my card was not shut down at all.

[George Camel]

And I did that same thing in Latin America. I didn't do five countries, but we did several. Never had a problem.

[Ken Coleman]

That's the issue is, is I can tell you I'm Going to go to London this week. And then an hour and a half, two hours before. Instead of going to London, I'm now going to Jamaica, and the bank may be closed if it's late at night. I can't always.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I gotta tell you every. I gotta tell you. I hate to be the ambassador of no. Because that's what I feel like right now, but. Okay, if I find out an hour from now that I'm going to Jamaica, I. I bank with a. With a regional bank here in Tennessee, and they have what's called an 800 number. And there's always somebody closed on weekends.

[Ken Coleman]

My bank's closed on weekends.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They have no.

[Ken Coleman]

Small. Small town.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, well, then there's your answer. Maybe. Maybe we get with a bank that's got an answering service 24 hours a day, and then you can call them and going, hey, I'm going to Jamaica. Gonna be on a plane in an hour. I need you to know that. No fraud.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you're with the Red Dirt, Idaho Community Savings bank, that's probably your limitation.

[George Camel]

But. And I'll tell you this.

[Ken Coleman]

So what do you do?

[George Camel]

I'm paranoid.

[Ken Coleman]

Jamaica and change over to Barbados kind of thing, though. What are you gonna get a good exchange rates getting. Well, you may be. I may be in Jamaica. I may not be originating. I may not have phone service where I'm at. I may be in Jamaica and not able to get into the trucks or the bank.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so you fly with a major airline, and they're routinely putting you in places where you don't have cell service. I'm not buying it.

[Ken Coleman]

They do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I feel like I'm up against a guy who really thinks he's going to get me to go, all right, pal, here's what we're going to do.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I promise. I promise I'm not.

[George Camel]

Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something else I do. I actually opened because I'm paranoid. I opened a sub account in my checking account and they issued me a new debit card just for that. So when I leave the country, I have a limited amount of cash in that because I don't want them having access to. To my whole thing in case that card gets taken. And I have. I. I'm with you, Ken. I've never had it denied, man, if you're going to a tiny little country, put a $100 bill in your pocket.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think we solve this entire call, Richard, by saying, get a bigger bank and get a better cell service. I'm not sure Cricket's working for you. Okay, Rachel, the Internet officially knows too much about all of us.

[Ken Coleman]

So much, George. I mean, our names, our addresses, even our relatives names. And what's crazy is, even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't like that. And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Guys, that is so concerning. Because that info then can be used in phishing, scams, impersonation, and even harassment. That's why George and I both use and love Delete Me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, Delete Me scrubs your personal info from hundreds of these data broker sites, not just once, but all year long. And there's real privacy experts behind the scenes doing this, not bots. So this is digital hygiene. We all need.

[Ken Coleman]

We all need it. And then they will send you a detailed report showing exactly where they found your data and what they removed. And you can even record requests, custom removals if you have something specific you want them to look out for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly. And this is not being paranoid. This is staying protected. And so far, Delete Me has removed my info from 240listings and saved me 94 hours of time it would have taken me to do it.

[Ken Coleman]

I love it. And you guys, in a world where strangers can google your grandma and get enough info to scam her in just two clicks, Delete Me gives you peace of mind.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. So go to joindeleteme.com Ramsey for 20% off. And that discount brings their annual plans down to about nine bucks on a month. So go check it out. Joindeleteme.com Ramsey Quick program note. Earlier this week, Dave Ramsey and George Kimmel hosted a show and did a breakdown on the big beautiful bill and need to do a quick correction here. They had mentioned that you could use HSA money for gym memberships, but that was actually part of an earlier version of the legislation. It did not make it in the final bill. And so we always want to correct ourselves if we give errant information there. My goodness. How in the world would they keep up with these gigantic bills and what all is in them? You know, Congress themselves never reads these things. So good on our team for catching that. I mean, the very congressman who voted for it. No idea what's in it.

[George Camel]

None. None.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

None whatsoever.

[George Camel]

Unless that's one of their pet projects at that. Dude, you're gonna get me all fired up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, don't get. Don't get fired up. Peyton is waiting for us in My old stomping grounds in the 757. John. Your name is John, not George Hurts.

[George Camel]

But I'll accept it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. Well, I just said his name. Virginia beach is the area. Peyton is there. Peyton, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, I want to say thank you, John and Ken, for all the work y' all do. I really appreciate it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thank you, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

But my question real quick is just. I have a car that got totaled out. It's a little hoopy, worth about $1,500, but I haven't gotten a settlement offer yet. But I'm curious about salvage titles as far as if I get the offer back and I get the vehicle back. I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, so I can fix up the issues that will make it roadworthy. But I'm curious, is it reasonable in a bad financial situation to keep it and is it financially wise to drive it as salvage? Would it be better off to sell it, you know, even to a junkyard, worst case scenario, and then try to buy another hoopie, you know, for roughly the same price? Because I already put about $800 into it to try to fix it up and make it, you know, as reliable as I could get it. But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you're, you're struggling financially or you're trying to really get through baby step two. So the idea of any more additional outlay is tough. Is that what I'm getting?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And how much more would you have to put into it to get it roadworthy?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I mean, just replacing the light, you know, the light housing is really the main thing. It was destroyed and the front bumper cover was pulled off, some dents on the fenders and stuff. That's not a big deal. It's really just the light housing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. What's it going to cost? Is it going to cost you more money or is the insurance money going to cover that?

[Ken Coleman]

The insurance money should cover, yeah, all of the repairs that would need to be made to it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, if I were in your shoes, if I heard everything right, John, I, I, if I had the. By the way, I can barely put gas in my own car, so this is never an opt for me, you know, I mean, I'm not mechanically inclined, but if I could do what you're saying and I could get the car right back on the road and I was in the middle of baby step two, that's what I would do. I'd keep driving the thing.

[George Camel]

Yeah. You're worried about the salvage title?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nobody cares. That thing ain't worth anything.

[George Camel]

That's it if you have a $15,000 car or a $30,000 car, it gets wrecked and it becomes. You have to have a salvage title on it. You won't be able to resell it. This $1500 car, you're going to sell it to somebody else for a thousand bucks. And as long as they're holding a title of some sort, if you're lucky. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean this is going to end up being Fred Flintstone. You know what I mean? That that's the day that you, you know. And so keep going man. Be encouraged.

[Ken Coleman]

This is the only question I have because of that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Go ahead.

[Ken Coleman]

Sorry not to cut you off, but just with the salvage title and getting it insured, I just. As far as I understood it though, if it gets in another wreck, like insurance won't cover anything on it.

[George Camel]

Yeah, dude, this car, it's a thousand dollars.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This car is not worth insuring. You need insurance for any damage you do. But as far as insuring this car, I wouldn't insured for a penny. This thing is. We want this baby to stay alive long enough for you to get through baby step two and, and keep moving forward. You know what I mean?

[Ken Coleman]

Understood. I. I guess I only. The only reason I asked is just because of the fact that if it gets in, something else happens to it. Let's say worst case scenario. Because I mean I didn't get the accident. Somebody hit it while it was parked, work. I don't have another thousand dollars, you know, to buy another, another hoopie. Right.

[George Camel]

Right now.

[Ken Coleman]

So that's the only reason.

[George Camel]

But I mean when you're in baby step two and you burn your emergency fund, the first thing you do is go refill that emergency fund.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[George Camel]

So you pause, you go back to paying minimums on everything to get that emergency fund back up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And bro, it's the worst.

[Ken Coleman]

And that was the only question I had too is like finding a thousand dollar vehicle is really tough. Like I was lucky to get that 1500 one. So while having it under salvage pile like that, should I increase my emergency fund a little bit to put an extra buffer in there to buy another?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, you're in baby step two.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Baby step two.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're gonna be okay.

[George Camel]

Put your energy on to paying this other nonsense off.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. Yep.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Okay. And hey dude, the exposure, you feel that nervousness, that's the fuel in your jetpack that's gonna get you through baby step two.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by the way, it should be uncomfortable is what I'm saying you're a mechanical guy, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. If something were to happen to this current rust bucket that you're driving, somebody's giving away a car, somebody's given up on a car somewhere to where you could go out and work a little overtime. So, I mean, you have the option to keep finding hoopties that until you get through baby step two, you actually can do this far more. Like, if I was in your shoes, I'd really be in trouble. I'd be riding a bicycle, you know. But. But the. But John's right. We don't change the rules because you're driving a hooptie.

[George Camel]

Or more importantly, we don't change the rules because it's uncomfortable. Because by definition, the rule is designed to keep you uncomfortable, to get you through this as fast as possible.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Great statement. Roberto is up next in St. Louis. Roberto, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

So thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

So I get a quick question.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I have.

[Ken Coleman]

I've been running a small business for the past 20 plus years, and I've done pretty well. And so what's going on is I've landed a couple of contracts with some school districts in my area, and I'm receiving a check here in the next month or so. They're about $45,000 or so. And so I contacted my. My tax lady, and I asked her what I should do with my taxes, whether I should go ahead and pay them quarterly or if I should set them aside to pay at the end of the year. So with doing that, knowing that my taxes are going to be roughly 13 to $15,000, my question to her was, can I take that money and have my business buy a. Pretty much a company vehicle, or should I just go ahead and set that money aside, pay for the taxes, and just let it. Let it ride.

[George Camel]

I'd write a quarterly check.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dude, me too. What did she say?

[Ken Coleman]

She said that she would have to look into it. What would be the best in my best interest.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, well, that's surprising because most techs, people go for the. Yeah, just go. Go spend it. And it doesn't sound to me and anything you laid out to John and I right there that you need a truck.

[Ken Coleman]

It's. It's one of those things that sometimes I do just, you know, haul equipment, haul ladders.

[George Camel]

But you're not gonna. You're not gonna skirt around the end of your tax bill.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's exactly right. It's a false choice when people say, well, I'm going to go create another expense in order to lessen my taxes. If I was running a small business like you and I got this 45, I do exactly what John said. I go ahead and pay the quarterly estimate and that way I'm staying on top of things and I'm not, you know, messing around with the irs. So no, I would not go buy something.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't want to mess with the irs.

[George Camel]

If this was, if you were getting, if you were getting a check for 4.5 million and you had a good system, a good partnership with your financial advisor and your tax tax person and y' all figured out, hey, you can take that quarterly and you can postpone it and invest it here and take that's. But you're dealing in way more zeros there. That's Dave Ramsey kind of money. I don't have. That doesn't sound like you have that. Like I'm going to pay that quarterly. And here's what I'm going to any I made 2% on the gap between dude, I'm going to have a sleep tax. I'm going to know there's not a chance the government's going to come for me at the end of the year. In fact, they may write me a small check.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Check.

[George Camel]

That's what I'm gonna do. But I want you to follow your tax professional's advice. But anytime someone says, hey, you're gonna have a fourteen thousand dollar tax bill, so pay for a depreciating asset that's going to be 50, 000 and that will help you put man, that's just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, in that case, I wouldn't do that. And a lot of tax pros will do that. Ramsey tax pros are not going to, they're not going to tell you that. And so in this case, be smart. You get windfalls like this. As a small business owner, sock it away, you know, for the taxes at the end of the day, to me, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be bothered if you took option two that you threw out to us, which is I'm going to put it aside to the end of the year and see if there are.

[George Camel]

And that's over my skis on tax tax stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can do that because you've put it aside. And so your, your tax pro is kind of going all right, set all of it aside. The whole, you know, the whole 15 that we're anticipating. And then as we do your books, if you did have more expenses, what I estimated was going to be 1315. Well, you know what? What? You're actually only going to owe nine. But the point is it's all sitting there, right? And so either one of those option is best, but going out and buying something to try to play games with taxes, John laid that out beautifully. And that's just, it's not the juice isn't worth the squeeze on that. So I do not like messing with the irs for one.

[Ken Coleman]

And, and on the second note, I was looking at something just to kind of offset the, you know, not 40, $50,000 truck, a truck, you know, that's ridiculous.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But something 15, $18,000, well, you got.

[George Camel]

The cash to do that on your own.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's True.

[George Camel]

Use the $30,000 that you are going to take home in profit and take a piece of that and go buy that truck.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's be honest. Shopping for health insurance can be confusing with high costs, complicated terms, and customer service that doesn't really serve you. You. Most folks just pick a plan and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hope for the best. See, insurance companies don't work for you.

[Ken Coleman]

They work for themselves. Meaning they love it when you overpay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you need a guide on your.

[Ken Coleman]

Team to help you make the best choices. Health Trust Financial works for you. They're not salespeople. They help you find the health insurance option that makes sense and saves you money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The fact is health health insurance is.

[Ken Coleman]

One of the biggest expenses in your budget. But most people who work with Health Trust Financial end up saving $500 a month. Imagine putting that kind of money toward the baby steps.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

My team has worked with them for over 20 years and they've served thousands.

[Ken Coleman]

Of people just like you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They're the only health insurance broker that's.

[Ken Coleman]

Ramsey trusted to help you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So stop throwing money away and get.

[Ken Coleman]

The health insurance that's right for [e-mail] that's healthtrustfinancial.com.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is the Ramsey show where America hangs out to talk about their money, their profession and their relationship. And we're so glad you've joined us alongside Dr. John DeLoney. I am Ken Coleman and we're here together for you. The phone number to jump in 888-825-5225. That's 888-882-5225. Jennifer is up in Miami. Jennifer, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, Ken and John. I am a huge fan of the show and I am just so excited to be on with you guys. Thank you for taking my call.

[George Camel]

You bet.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so I have been struggling with debt. I have about 63,000 in just different forms of Debt. And I just feel like no matter how much I sell, how much I think I'm getting ahead, I'm just not. Like, the interest is accuing, and I don't know where to go from here. I have a few ideas, but I really wanted to get your input before I did anything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What do you think is the reason why you're unable to get beyond minimum payments?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I am going beyond minimum payments, but, like, I'm doing the baby step. So while I'm attacking one, the other one is just accumulating more and more, and so I'm unable to get ahead is what I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, no. So that's what threw me off. You got to change your language. You're too busy looking at the debts that you're making minimum payments on instead of looking at the amount of progress you're making in the snowball. So are you walking through the debt snowball where you're taking your low? Okay. Are you making progress on that?

[Ken Coleman]

Like, this is what's happening. I pay off one, and then I go back to my spreadsheet where I have them all listed, I update it. Right. Because the. The interest accumulated and it's higher, even though I just paid off one. It's higher because the interest is going up.

[George Camel]

The total. The total debt you owe is higher. Or that one. How is that possible?

[Ken Coleman]

It is possible because it's happening.

[George Camel]

Tell me how that works. You'd have to have. You would have to have loans at 70% interest.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Some of them are, like, up to 30. I mean. Okay, but listen, I can break it down for you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. No, because. Because I believe you. But you're. Again, you're focused on the wrong problem. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You need to be focused.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not. It's not getting better.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it is. It is. So let's walk through on your debt snowball. What have you paid off to this point? Anything. Have you knocked any of the debts?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, give us an example.

[Ken Coleman]

Which one I paid off? I did pay off one. I can't remember. It was like, maybe 4,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Was it your lowest debt?

[Ken Coleman]

I believe so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, here's what's throwing John.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm not sure why I chose that one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. See, all of your language tells me you're not doing this the way we teach it. So let me go back just for a moment. Moment. And we're for you. We're not criticizing you.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But all your language is like, I've got a spreadsheet. But then when I asked you what was the lowest debt. Because that's how we teach it. We teach smallest to largest. So let's make it up. And let's say you have a 2,500.

[Ken Coleman]

That's why.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, okay. All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Once it's paid.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so here's my point. You have knocked off one.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I remember. It was an Amazon. It was an Amazon.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And how much was 4,000? 4,000. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

It was like 4,000.

[George Camel]

What's next?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's the next smallest debt?

[Ken Coleman]

So then I paid. Now I'm up to another one that was around 4 or 5,000, and it's down to like 1400.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're making progress. You're making progress. You keep going. And then eventually you're going to get into these bigger ones that have the huge interest rates. And that's where you will make progress, but you're not going to make progress on a debt that is higher up. The snowball plan that has a crazy interest rate. You paid. That's what you did. And that's the stupid tax. John, weigh in on this because you're hearing the same thing I'm hearing.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Mathematically, Jennifer, I guess I want to challenge it, but I'm not looking at your spreadsheet. That's right. Unless you're taking two years to pay off. Would you say whatever. Of course.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So in my business, right, it's seasonal a little bit. Like, the summer is really slow. So last season when it was really slow, I kind of survived. Like, credit cards were my crutch. So a lot of this came from last season. And I'm a little bit concerned, like a lot concerned that this summer I don't have that crutch. In fact, I don't want to use my cards, but I'm just worried I'm not going to be able to, like, pay more. I'm not going to be able to, like, get it down like I have been doing, because I believe summer is going to be really slow. So I'm just, like, kind of freaking out. And I'm like, all right, should I get a loan to help me? Because I didn't. Please, I need some dental work. And so, no, like, here's the thing.

[George Camel]

I, I, you need a job. Yeah. You've got to get another job. You have a math problem. You don't have a debt rearrangement problem.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so I, I, my job makes.

[Ken Coleman]

I can, you know, my average is like 6,800amonth. And like, my debt, I got it down to, I think it was like 63.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So yeah, but Jennifer. And by the way, we are, we are on team Jennifer. Yeah, yeah, but listen, what you just laid out for us isn't sustainable if you have a business.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'm worried it's going to get worse over the summer.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It probably is. And what I said to you, you're not hearing me because I think you're calling going, guys, I got to use debt to keep myself alive. And we're going to. No, you don't. So we're kind of at an impasse. And what we're trying to tell you is if you're in a business that is so seasonal as in the summer and it dips so low that you have chosen to survive off of credit cards, the only way to dig out of this is to actually then offset your down season. But you're going to have to get a job, you're going to have to make more money. John's right when he says this is a math problem. You can't, you'll never get out of this. If you go, well, gee willikers, my business sucks in the summer and I got to bail myself out with a loan or a credit card and then I'm back to paying off that debt. You are constantly adding to the hill that you're trying to climb. And the answer is, number one, cut up the credit cards. Number two, come up with a different business. Or number three, supplement your business by doing another job or something to bring in the same amount of income so that you don't go backwards in the summer.

[George Camel]

And I'll throw a three plus and a four. Okay, listen, I have a buddy who runs sound. He does the monitors for a famous rock band the moment they get off tour. Technically he's unemployed now. They're gonna go back on tour the next summer, the next year, and immediately he lives in Las Vegas. He goes to Vegas and starts running sound at shows and casinos. And so that's part, that's part of that cycle. That's number one. So if you're like Ken said, if your business goes dips that low, then you have a math problem. The other side of this is to look at your Debt repayment across 12 month. Consider yourself a farmer. Yeah, right. If you get a big, if you have a huge month in October and you take all of that and dump it into your debt so far that you can't pay your bills in June and July. That's not a debt problem. It's a, you're not looking at your 12 month calendar with, in reality, that's Right. So it might be that you got to put some money away because you know that it's going to be slower in June and July. Ramsey has seasons when we all, Ken and I are 100% commission. There are certain months a year. That's right. Well, we get bigger checks. We know that. Around Christmas, around. Around the. When summer starts. Right, we know that. And so we're going to spread that out over the course of a year when it comes to buying things and whatnot. But this idea that you just taking two months to pay off a $4,000 debt and you're 63,000 earns that much $4,000 interest, it's not mathematically possible. So I think it's spreading it out or just really crushing a job in the summer. You got to take debt off the table.

[Ken Coleman]

Life is unpredictable.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's why I teach the importance of.

[Ken Coleman]

Things like having an emergency fund, buying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Term life insurance, and getting a will.

[Ken Coleman]

From my friends at Mama Bear legal forums. Because if you don't plan ahead for when you're gone, it can cause a big mess. And that's the last thing your family needs, especially when they're grieving your loss at the same time. But a will spells out exactly what.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You want to happen after you've passed.

[Ken Coleman]

No guesswork, no courtrooms, and no family fights. Just peace and clarity. It's your way of saying, I love you and I took care of this so you don't have to. And thanks to Mama Bear, getting your will done is fast, easy, and affordable. In just 20 minutes, you can give your family the peace of mind they'll need during one of the most challenging times of their lives. And unlike a lot of other online will companies, the price you see at the beginning is the price you [e-mail] so take care of it today. Go to mamabearlegalforms.com use the promo code Ramsey to save 20%. That's 20% off with code [e-mail].

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Houston, Texas is where we're going next. And Sarah is waiting. Sarah, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hello. I am hoping somebody can tell me how I can financially exit my marriage. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does that mean, financially exit?

[Ken Coleman]

I have been married since 2001. I am 50 years old and a stay at home mom. My husband is in his mid-60s and is retired. He takes care of all the finances.

[George Camel]

Is that a nice way of saying he controls the money?

[Ken Coleman]

That it probably is a very nice way of saying it. I Signed a prenuptial agreement, and I had no idea what that was. And I don't have access to it. I don't have access to anything.

[George Camel]

That's not. That's not accurate. He might be controlling it, but you do have legal rights to see the prenup that you signed because it's your prenup, too.

[Ken Coleman]

It is. I. I don't have access to it. He carries a key to the filing cabinet, and it's on him 100% of the time.

[George Camel]

Okay. You're in a very. You're in a very abusive situation. And you know this, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's why I'm asking, what did you mean by financially exit as opposed to just exit?

[Ken Coleman]

I know. I'd like to just exit the whole thing, but I. Y' all are a financial show.

[George Camel]

Yeah. You've got to sit with an attorney. Yeah, you got to sit down with the attorney. Okay. What?

[Ken Coleman]

The attorney need all of that information.

[George Camel]

Say what now?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The attorney needs information.

[Ken Coleman]

The financial information that we have.

[George Camel]

I know.

[Ken Coleman]

The mortgage information. And they need the prenuptial agreement.

[George Camel]

I know, but if you're married to an abusive person who won't share that and controls and keeps it on their body, this is like a. Like a James Bond episode. Like, if you're. If you're married to somebody like that, the attorney knows if this person is unsafe and won't turn that over, that then they make a filing and there's a disclosure. They have to put all this stuff on the table. And if they won't, which he probably will not voluntarily, even with a subpoena, then you get a forensic tax person who goes through everyone's underwear drawer and goes through every receipt, and you'll pay them a jillion dollars. But that's how this is done. If somebody wants to be controlling and abusive like that, you're. You're in control. And by the way, a prenup will talk about pre. Existing assets. It won't mean that you don't get a big chunk of what he has earned while y' all are married.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I know. I do know this. I know that part. I know that I would get half of the house.

[George Camel]

So. So tell me. Tell me what you're. Tell me. Are you trying to get this information without him knowing you're talking to an attorney? Is that the problem?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. That may not be possible.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I don't think it is. I think you have to do what John just said. The only way he's going to do.

[George Camel]

This is under Court order.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's exactly right. It sounds like that's your only path. Unless you're sneaking around, you know, in the middle of the night, you know, he has too much allergy medicine, and you're pulling the key around his neck. This sounds like a bad Lifetime movie.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Rarely is somebody that controlling that's not abusive, either physically and, or emotionally. Is that true also?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So.

[Ken Coleman]

Probably emotionally, not. Not physically. Definitely not physically.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's good. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Not physically.

[George Camel]

Then I think you have to sit with your attorney and say, I'm out of. I, I'm not able to get this information because I'm in a, in a, an abusive marriage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And then we got to go to step two, and that means you have to have a place to live, and you're going to have to have food and water. I mean, you're going to have to have, there's, there's four walls you got to deal with. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have a hunch on this, Sarah? I think you do. But I'm curious to know if you did what John is, is suggesting. Do you think that would wake your husband up, or do you think he would dig in deeper?

[George Camel]

Go to war?

[Ken Coleman]

He would. He would go to war.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, bless your heart. I'm so sorry. Yeah. This sucks, Sarah. But I, I, I'm, I'm with John on this. This marriage is in deep, deep, deep trouble, and you got to do what right now? And I think John's right.

[George Camel]

I mean, you've already gone to speak to an attorney. What, what, what, what fear do you have about going the next step and filing papers?

[Ken Coleman]

That my kids will hate me.

[George Camel]

Yeah, they won't, because they live in this mess too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are they?

[Ken Coleman]

I have three that are in high school.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you, do you think they're aware of your relationship being in the state that we're all aware of? Of.

[Ken Coleman]

Some of it. Two of them do. Two of them do.

[George Camel]

Sarah, let me tell you that everyone in that house feels the tension in that house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

There's. There's a lot of tension.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

There is no laughter between my husband and I. There is no relationship. He is not my friend, and I am not his.

[George Camel]

I'm going to say something very hard. Okay. Okay. And I want you to hear it in the spirit of which I'm saying it. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Uhhuh.

[George Camel]

This is going to be sound, mean, but I want you to, I want you to hear me say, I love you. Okay. I don't want you to use an imagined response from your children as the excuse to not go do what's the next. Right. Scary hard thing for you? And there's a reason we don't let teenagers vote and buy beer. Because they're teenagers. Because they're full of feelings. And they don't always have. They don't always lead with critical thinking, rational thought. And that's not their fault. It's just brain development.

[Ken Coleman]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And also, let's acknowledge, Sarah, this is not what you expected.

[George Camel]

It's a nightmare.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this is really hard.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, this is hard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But my prayer is. And I mean this because I never love to hear the advice that we're giving at this case. I mean, I just hate this. But my hope is that it wakes him up. I think you're probably right. He'll dig in. But maybe not. I don't know. But I think you've got to make some moves going forward because I think you're in a prison. You're in a financial and emotional prison. Prison.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Camel]

And that means your kids are too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Yeah.

[George Camel]

And usually. Not always, but usually he showers them with stuff so they will quote, unquote, love him. And then he gets to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.

[Ken Coleman]

It's. It's. It's actually not okay that he is very goal driven and his goal currently is to be able to finance the children's college education.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What kind of money does he make? You have any idea?

[Ken Coleman]

He is retired and we are living off of his investments.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm a stay at home mom. This is too much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

For me to stay. I need people to go back to school, go back to work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, I didn't ask this question and I think I know the answer, but I'm going to ask. Ask it. Have you shared with him, at least at the level that you're sharing with John and I?

[George Camel]

What.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's going on? I mean, does he know how bad this is from your point of view?

[Ken Coleman]

No. We have gone through four marital counselors in three years. Two of them, I felt like, were not seasoned enough or on the verge of retirement. One of them fired us and she was the one who saw the issues.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I think he actually is aware.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What you feel.

[George Camel]

Or this word gets thrown around a lot. Diagnostic, I mean, gets thrown around the Internet a lot. And I'm in no way gonna make any sort of diagnostic like guesses here, but this sounds like a true narcissist.

[Ken Coleman]

That was the word she used.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And so like somebody who carries a key, that's a power play. That's a flex, right? That's, that's, that's somebody that not only is going to keep you from, is going to use information as power over you, but they're going to make sure you see it. That's somebody who's not well. And, and there are some extraordinary people. I know them in the Texas, in Texas attorneys who have dedicated their lives to helping women in this exact moment who don't know up from down, who are not allowed to live in their own home. And so if you've already gone, my recommendation would be to sit down with your attorney and say, okay, what's, what's step two? And I hate this for you. As Ken said, I hate having to give this kind of wisdom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hurting for you, Sarah.

[Ken Coleman]

The bottom line of a break in is more than financial. It also costs you peace of mind. So when it comes to protecting your home and the things you've worked so hard for, don't wait for trouble to show up. Plan ahead. That's why I recommend SimpliSafe. See, most security systems only do something after someone's already broken in. But by then, it's too late. Simplisafe's Active Guard Outdoor Protection changes all that. It's like having a guard at your house who never clocks out. SimpliSafe cameras use AI to spot trouble around your property. And if something doesn't look right, a live agent can step in. They can talk to the person, activate a spotlight, and call the police. SimpliSafe also helps protect against fires and floods. SimpliSafe is always working for you, and that restores your peace of mind. It's simple, it works, and it's a smart investment. And right now, you can get 50% off a new SimpliSafe system with 24. 7 professional [e-mail] that's 50% off. @simplisafedirect.Com there's no safe like SimpliSafe.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey. Our FPU coordinators are everyday heroes who share the whole hope and freedom that comes with Financial Peace University. And we want to celebrate them because they deserve it. These are the men and women on the front lines meeting real people knee to knee in all different locations. Just loving on folks. And so we'd love for you to join us at the virtual 2025 coordinator rally on July 24. It's virtual, so it's easy. And whether you've coordinated a class before or you just want to see what leading FPU is all about, about, Come on. It's an all skate. You'll hear from Jade Warshaw, George Camel and Dr. John DeLoney and I'm told a few other special guests. We're giving away $3,000, so register for your chance to win. You can register for [e-mail] rally ramseysolutions.com rally or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. YouTube. Let's go to Lauren in Detroit, Michigan. Lauren, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi guys. Thanks for taking the call today.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You bet.

[Ken Coleman]

I had a question. My husband and I are finally able to live together after being married for three years. But I own my house and he doesn't. He rents, but because of our jobs, you know, his house is better option to live at. Just not sure what to do with my house. It's got that great interest rate. It's, it's, you know, I'm not, I'm not sure what to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's it worth if you were to sell it today?

[Ken Coleman]

Probably two over 200, 220.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you owe?

[Ken Coleman]

122. 122,000.

[George Camel]

Sell it today and put 100,000 down on a new house. Both get out of his rent house and you find yours. Who cares about that stupid interest rate, man?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, you don't want to be a long distance landlord.

[George Camel]

People are parking their whole lives on a once in a millennial interest rate.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Let's play this out a little bit. Let's play it out because I hear the doubt and we love doubt. Doubt's not bad. Love it. Let's put this to the test. Okay, so let's say you keep it at that fabulous interest rate that you're in love with. What do you think you would rent it for? Any idea?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I think it depends on the renter. My daughter, she's an adult. She's actually interested in either renting it herself or buying it.

[George Camel]

Give her a great deal.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's keep playing this out. Let's play the renting thing out. Because you presented us with. I kind of emotionally want to keep the house. Am I right?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I don't think I'm emotionally tied to it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You seem very confused by John's suggestion.

[George Camel]

You don't want to give up your. This is the last attachment to your former life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, oh, is this true?

[George Camel]

And you may have gone through a divorce or somebody passed away and you got up and you dusted yourself off and you worked your butt off and bought a home and you've paid off half of it. And by Moving in with this person, your husband. By the way, this is the period at the end of that former sentence, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I am just so nervous. I just hate the thought of so much of that new house payment going to so much interest. It just makes me sick.

[George Camel]

So much so that you're going to have $100,000 BR tied around your ankle when you move in with your husband after three years in a new state.

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's. I mean, I, I move right now. Right now. That.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, let me, let me go back to where I was going, but let me go back to where I was going. Here's why you shouldn't keep the house. Number one, you're going to be long distance landlord. I don't care if it's your daughter renting or someone else.

[Ken Coleman]

True or false, two hours away. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The answer is yes, Ken. Okay. All right, so.

[Ken Coleman]

And let's add to that you. I'm not, I don't know home repairs.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you don't. I know. I'm getting ready to make this situation worse. All right, so you're two hours away and you don't know anything about home repairs. You have to hire somebody. Now let's talk about how much actual money you would make on renting this house. Okay. What I was trying to get at, I never got an answer from you is, is what is the market based rent for that house? You don't have to tell me now because we don't need to get bogged down. But here's what I'm going to take. Tell you. You will be shocked if you run the numbers, John, at what you can get in rent versus your mortgage payment. Okay. And let's just say you cleared 3, 4, 500 bucks a month. Is that a fair guess?

[Ken Coleman]

I could, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, great. Let's say 500. Let's be aggressive in my example. Okay? Okay. 500amonth times 12 is $6,000 a year. That's your gross that you're going to get get. Then you got home repairs, somebody taking care of the house. That's all on you. So you aren't even going to net $6,000 a year. All that nuisance, all that worry for maybe 3,000, 3,500, 4,000 a year. It's just not worth it. That's why we were so quick to say sell it and move on.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's. That's when you lay it all out like that, man, I really was stuck on the interest rate too. 2.875.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. And I want to destroy the emotion around that. Because guess what's gonna. Guess what? When you get a call at 10 o' clock on a Saturday night and you've just settled down with some ice cream to watch a movie. And the, and the person who's renting your house goes, we had a water pipe burst. And you're gonna go, ha, man, that's a bummer. But 2.875%, I'm doing the happy dance.

[George Camel]

And then you're gonna call somebody, they're gonna say, cool, it's gonna be $6,500 to repair it. We'll get it done on Saturday.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And then your, then your tenant's going to say, whoa. In our lease, you have to put me up in a hotel and I have to actually have two rooms because there you have to sell the house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you know. No, no, no, because what you're going to do is you're going to go, man, that's a bummer. Just out of pocket, 10 grand. But boy, that interest rate is, I.

[George Camel]

Love that interest rate.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no, it doesn't sound so good anymore. So you would just sell it for anything I could get for it and then just put.

[George Camel]

No, that's you being dramatic. No, sell it for market value.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm like, that's what I'm wondering what, than what you guys would recommend.

[George Camel]

I would rec. I would get a, I would get a real estate pro in that area and do, and sell the house. Or I'm not opposed to you cutting your daughter a deal. You got $100,000 in equity and maybe you say, I'm going to knock off 25 grand for you because I love you or 50 grand. Who? I mean, you pick the number. I'm going to sell it to you for 150 grand. I'm going to take $50,000 into my three year old marriage that we're finally combining our households. Honey, I'm not living in your gross rent house because sick. We're getting a new place and I got $50,000 to put down on it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And then your, your daughter's got a great start. That's an I like that option.

[Ken Coleman]

That's actually what I wanted to do. And I talked about that with her too. Like if that's what they decided to do with her. And eventually I was gonna say get.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Married, but I was gonna say as a parent, don't do any sweetheart deals just for the daughter. This needs to be a big girl deal. Now cut her, cut her a break on the, the, the Overall, total. But don't start getting tricky with financing. She needs to be a big girl and she goes and does it. Just like everybody.

[George Camel]

Mortgage and buys the house from you. We're not going to shake hands. And you just pay the mortgage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's my only concern.

[George Camel]

Then you're going to blow up every Christmas from here the next day.

[Ken Coleman]

Why? I told her flat out, like, I'm 42 years old. I can't start out. You know what I mean? Like a full house payment. Like, I need to have that chunk to put down to make sense where.

[George Camel]

I'm at my life.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't want to. So we gave you nothing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We gave you two really good options, but they're both. Sell the house and let's. Let's move and let's. And you said you were ready to go today. I think this is the last piece. Yeah, this is great. List it. Go. Listen. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and look up the real estate pros. Interview two or three of them. Have them come over and look at the house. Go with the one that you like the most that feels like they've educated you. And let a pro walk you through this process. And to begin to execute, Exhale and get excited about this new chapter.

[George Camel]

Can I do. Can you do one exercise for me? I want everyone listening at home in this similar situation to do this exercise. But will you do this with me?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I do it as well?

[George Camel]

You can. Can.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

All right. Are you ready? All right, Lauren, close your eyes. And I want you to picture that interest rate. What's the number? 2.753.

[Ken Coleman]

2.875.

[George Camel]

I want you to see. See those numbers, John? Now I want you to open your eyes real quick. That's a little pallet cleanser. Close them again. And I want you to imagine you're looking at your laptop at your checking account that has $105,000, which is what you've cleared.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, I like it.

[George Camel]

Which number do you like looking at more?

[Ken Coleman]

Big one.

[George Camel]

That's right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bank account.

[George Camel]

Sell the house.

[Ken Coleman]

Awesome.

[George Camel]

In America, she. Stop holding up your life for a freaking interest rate. If you gotta move, if you gotta change jobs, go, go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I loved that visualization because I was envisioning her money in my account. I don't know if that was supposed to be what happened, but, boy, that's where I went. Sam. Foreign. Okay, America, quick question. Are you on track with the baby steps? Some of you may go. What are you talking about? I'm new to this whole show. If you'd like to know where you stand on the baby steps or where you should be next or what are these things? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress. Great place to do this. If you go into the show notes, you click on the link that says, are you on track with the baby steps? Quick little quiz, fabulous information. Kind of give you a status report and we all. I can tell you this is humans. John, you know this as well as anybody. We want to know where we stand always, all the time. So that's a fun little quiz. Check it out in the show notes. Des Moines, Iowa, One of John's favorite places to visit.

[George Camel]

It's Des Moines. Yes, but I'll call it Des Moines.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Boy, that's awkward. I missed that one one completely. Owen is way off. Oh, it is up. Oh, and how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, that. That's pretty nuts there. It's Des Moines. But no, he knows.

[George Camel]

I know, I know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That was. That was a joke and I responded in kind. Sorry to throw you off.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, good, good. So my wife and I are public school teachers and coaches. We'll make 6,800 starting in September.

[George Camel]

Excellent.

[Ken Coleman]

We have 30,000 in savings. My wife had 19,000 in student loans and we paid to 5,000. I'll tell you why in a second. I have 23,000 left on mine. The reason we paid hers down to 5,000 is because there's a program through our student aid where if we work five consecutive years in a low income school, which we do, we can get up to 5,000 each after that, five years, in three years, we'll hit that. My question is, and I think I kind of already know the answer, do we pay mine also down to 5,000 and just wait for that, or do we just use our savings, completely pay it off, and then just kind of start over working back our savings?

[George Camel]

I have two. One question and then one lived experience comment. Okay, the first question is, do you have to. Is it reimbursement or is it. You will just get this money back?

[Ken Coleman]

It's not reimbursement. I also have a TEACH grant, which would kind of be that, like if I didn't do the low income, it would just get turned into a loan. But no, I think it would just pay off or I'm sure it would just pay off my remaining balance.

[George Camel]

So I really want you to get clear on. If you walk in, do they have to see a balance? You're gonna have to pull up. Here's what I owe on my student loans and we will pay. What's Left. I've not seen it happen that way. What I've seen, basically it becomes a rolling bonus and you have to prove that. I had these student loans, I paid them off. And here is the, the, the, the reimbursement if you will. But I would get some really clear insight into what that is. And then here's my comment. I trust those programs. Zero, none and I've got none. And, and I'm watching states lose federal grant dollars by the day because they're not doing something or somebody's mad at somebody. I don't trust any of those programs. And I had had some of the most extraordinary young men and women as law students who took less market money to go work with low income folks to go work government jobs, to go work as attorneys at non profits with this promised payback and it didn't come through and.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Camel]

It just kills me. So you've got the money, bro. I would rather you guys have five years of peace in your house than some carrot that a government officials dangling out in front of you three to five years from now.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, perfect. And I do have one follow up. We do currently put 15% in our Roth IRA according to the baby steps. We should stop doing that. Can you tell me why?

[George Camel]

Yes. Because. Because I want you paying off your debts first. I don't want you borrowing from your future self. This doesn't really apply to you because you have the cash right now to be debt free by the end of the day.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Camel]

And so I would be cash. I would be debt free by the end of the day immediately. Your wife and you, you, you're going to have your, you're going to, you're going to pay off your. I mean you're going to start investing, you're going to start replenishing your emergency fund and you all are going to start your new life off to the races. My, my friend.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want to make sure you understand for everybody else listening, we have a lot of people. There's a really good question. The reason we have you pause on the investing 15% while you're still in a baby step two and three is because of momentum. We want to use every nickel that comes in the door door to go to that current step. Makes sense.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it's all. Dave developed that which, it's, it's genius. You know, years and years of counseling people on the air, he figured it out. These baby steps are designed to do one thing and one thing only give you the absolute most momentum possible. Right. It's this is a Tough Journey.

[George Camel]

It's the title of Jade's book. Money's not a math problem at that point. It's a psychology problem.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Kyle is up in Memphis, Tennessee. Kyle, how you can. Can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. I am calling in because I would like some guidance on baby step one. I'm a independent contractor driving a semi truck. And I know the normal baby step says to save $1,000. My question is, with having a semi truck and maintenance and things like that, what would be a good amount for baby step one?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have two separate accounts? In other words, do you have a personal account, checking account. And then do you have a checking account for your business, the trucking?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Yes, I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Well, first of all, the answer is, no matter what the scenario is, we never tell somebody to have more money in baby step one and bring the audience in. Maybe not New to this. Baby step one is $1,000 in a savings account for your garden variety emergency. And we do this on purpose. It's as little as we think because it covers most of your emergencies and it allows you to again, put every dime that comes in the door towards your debt, which is baby step two. Taking the smallest debt first, knocking that out, and then we take that, what we're paying towards that, and we begin to roll it like a straight snowball and knock out all the debts. The reason I asked you the question about your separate accounts is because if those finances are different, do you have debt in your business?

[Ken Coleman]

I do.

[George Camel]

Okay, how much?

[Ken Coleman]

I have right at 43,000.

[George Camel]

What do you make in your business before you pay yourself.

[Ken Coleman]

The year? Right. At 200,000 a year.

[George Camel]

And then what are. What's your draw? What are you paying yourself?

[Ken Coleman]

I have only been paying myself the amount of what my personal bills are.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Real quick question. Are you sitting at a stoplight getting ready to turn left or right? I feel like I hear the blinker clicking.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We have an egg timer.

[George Camel]

You got the emergency flashers going, huh?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Safe driver, you guys. Every day. And I called in, spoke to someone and they said, whenever it's your turn, oh, it's great. Pull over.

[George Camel]

I love it. Here's what I would consider. I would consider trying to pay your business debt off as fast as possible, but you're going to keep the nerd term in businesses retained earnings account, which is basically a business savings account. It actually is about investors, shareholders, blah, blah. But think of it that way. And you got to keep those things separate.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right, absolutely.

[George Camel]

So, yes, Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

Since day one.

[George Camel]

Okay. So having a small account that's going to serve as your emergency fund for your business. I like the fact that you're paying yourself what you need to survive, but that means you got to take the rest of that and pay that debt off of your business so you can begin operating. Because then you're going to be able to take $200,000. That's right. Minus. I think Dave likes to. He says he's never gotten here with Ramsey Solutions because we keep expanding with cash. But having up to 25% of your operating cost in retained earnings and the rest of that, it just becomes yours, dude. Or you get to invest in hiring another driver or whatever you want to do with your company.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. That was my. That's why I wanted to ask about Baby step one is for maintenance and for like what on that aspect to be able to keep the.

[George Camel]

That's business operations, dude. That's not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's not you personal. That's why I started off immediately with. Do you have separate accounts? So we got two journey journeys. We got dead on both sides of the aisle, but they are two separate, you know, journeys here to knock the dead out on both sides.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

That gives me guidance and a way to start moving forward.

[George Camel]

But let me tell you this, if you know, I have this much gas, I have this much for oil changes, this much for tire rotations and new tires and whatever. That is not a retained earning. That is a business expense that you need to account for every month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Similar to if my kid needs braces. I need to have that money. I know that's coming every three months. My kids got to go get their braces adjusted or whatever. That's not a surprise. That's something that me and my wife save for every month because we know that's that's coming. So just be honest about your business expenses on a recurring basis.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home? It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals go to ramseysolutions.com realestate. That's ramseysolutions.com real estate. This is the Ramsey show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your money, your profession, and your relationships. And we're so glad you've joined us. The phone number to jump in is, is, 882-55-5225. Triple 882-55-2225. Alongside the combustible, the incomparable Dr. John DeLoney. I'm Ken Coleman. We're excited to be together for you. And we're gonna go to Charlotte. Charlotte, where John is standing by. John, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, guys. I am kind of just trying to figure out where to get started to actually be able to not live paycheck to paycheck.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. All right. Well, the first thing we want to look at is what do you think the big problem is? Is it too much going out the door or not enough coming in the door, or do we have some type of compound combo?

[Ken Coleman]

It's. I think it's a combo. Even though the. The money going out the door is a temporary issue, it feels like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me what that means.

[Ken Coleman]

So I have twin boys that are three years old, and daycare alone is $516 a week.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oof. And why is that temporary?

[Ken Coleman]

Because once they're into school age, that $2,000 a month will be able to go somewhere.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're a positive guy. Because I would not think that two years of that kind of expense is temporary. We don't want to suffer for two more years. That's one part of the problem. Let's talk about the income. What are we making and what are we doing for a living?

[Ken Coleman]

So for me, I'm a firefighter paramedic. And my. My wife, her 100% of her wages basically goes to the kids. Daycare.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

And so all my money handles everything else within the life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you make?

[Ken Coleman]

I make about 53 to 54,000 a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have options for overtime? Yes. Does that figure you gave me include overtime or is overtime above.

[Ken Coleman]

Not. That is my base.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What could you make in overtime?

[Ken Coleman]

I could. Honestly, I could work as almost as much as I wanted.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, what I would want you to know is what is feasible when we say that. Okay. And then what could we make over the course of a year? So in other words, could we go from 53 gross to 73? I'm just giving you an arbitrary number. You need to know what's possible. Possible. All right. What kind of debt? Give John and I give John and I your debt picture real quick.

[George Camel]

Are. Are you on as a fireman, paramedic? Are you on what, 36s, 24s, two on, one off. How do you do that?

[Ken Coleman]

20, 24 on, 48 off.

[George Camel]

And what do you do on your 48 off?

[Ken Coleman]

Try to fix the house that we have.

[George Camel]

All right, I got to tell you, brother, y' all are drowning right now.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so it's. It's not time to wax a surfboard when y' all are underwater. And so I. I would tell you whether that is doing a mindless job, whether that is your kids go to daycare three days a week or two days a week, and you've got them the other days. Is that easy? It's a no. Good grief. And I. I've sat with you guys in the middle of the night, in the middle of the road and watch house houses burn down. I know how hard y' all work, and this is just a 24 month season. And if you, whatever you can do on those 48, or if you can stay over for another 24, or if you just want to get your mind off of car wrecks and cleaning things up and in training and go throw boxes at a Walmart, man, you've got those 48s. Using those hours, man, would be such a blessing for 24 months. And like you say, in 24 months, everybody exhales. Right?

[Ken Coleman]

That's. That's exactly where. Where I just keep telling myself just a little bit longer. I just started, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's not the mindset.

[George Camel]

That's not the mindset.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's tackle your debt, because I want to show you, John and I'd like to walk you through where we could put some of that additional income we're talking about to actually increase your income as well. Give us your debt picture. Go. Smallest debt to largest.

[Ken Coleman]

Right now. My smallest debt, I would say is. Is my car payment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. How much total do you owe on the car? And then give me the car payment.

[Ken Coleman]

So I bought it last year because my vehicle went out and It's. I'm at 26,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You owe 26. What's the car payment?

[Ken Coleman]

419.

[George Camel]

What's it worth?

[Ken Coleman]

I would say 26,000. It was a brand new car.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What's your next largest debt?

[Ken Coleman]

My house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so the only consumer debt you have is the car?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Everything else is in the debt settlement that I pay every week or every day.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dude, bro, you buried the lead on us here. What, what is your consolidated debt?

[George Camel]

I'VE got a cough, I've got an itch, and I've got stage three cancer. Like, you got to say all of it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So my.

[Ken Coleman]

I owed. Before I started my settlement In, I had 12 credit cards because I was just getting a new credit card. Maxing out, getting a new credit card.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How much is the combined debt consolidation?

[Ken Coleman]

25,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so we got 26,000 in a car, and we got 25,000 in one big lump sum credit card debacle. Is that it?

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What is that minimum payment on that, John. John's getting a bowl of Maalox.

[Ken Coleman]

$217 a paycheck a page.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So 434amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So I just want you to see that what we're looking at here in. In our debt payments. Okay. Is almost $900 a month. Boy, that would be nice to get back in your bank account. Yes or no?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so that's the mindset we got to have. I knock this debt out, I give myself a $900 raise. We're not waiting for the twins to go to school to get some type of financial break. You have agency. You have opportunity to go with the agency in the sense of John laid out what you could do to make more money. So if I'm you, I'm looking at. If I could escape from this car. Do you have any cash and savings at all? Any. Anywhere? Any cash?

[Ken Coleman]

Zero.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Okay, here's the thing. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm getting all burnt up. I'm gonna talk to you direct. Is that cool, brother?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Absolutely.

[George Camel]

Okay. You have two days off every other day, period.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[George Camel]

You have a $26,000 car that you cannot afford. In one month, you could save up 4,000 bucks in extra money and go buy yourself a lame car. Everybody at the station's gonna make fun of you. Who cares? In one year, you could earn 25,000 extra dollars and pay this whole debt settlement off. That's right. You are waiting for life to happen to you by walking around and fixing a gate and messing with some sheetrock. And your soul is burning down inside your chest, dude. And the. The thing that you have that very.

[Ken Coleman]

Pretty much every night.

[George Camel]

I know. And very few callers on this show have. Have Is four extra days a week to work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Two grand a month is what John's telling you.

[George Camel]

That's it. You're free.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Two extra. Two extra grand a month? You tell me you can't earn that? I. I absolutely can get after it.

[George Camel]

Let's go, dude.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sell the car like John said and go make the extra money. And you just gave yourself a $900 a month raise by paying the that debt off. And then imagine having an emergency fund of three to six months of your expenses. How would you sleep then? John?

[Ken Coleman]

Much better.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Dude, this. This is literally in the palm of your hand right now. Get on the phone and get a second job and start tomorrow. Game on. Day one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does having more money and less stress sound nice but feel impossible?

[Ken Coleman]

Possible?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free From Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it. You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out. From credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps. So if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get Breaking Free from broke [e-mail] store. That's ramseysolutions.com store. Time for our question of the day, which is brought to you by our friends at Y Refi. If you're struggling with defaulted private student loans, Y Refi offers a great solution to help get you back on track. For low fixed rate and a lot more flexibility, go to y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y, r, e f y.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states and I'll read the question as well.

[George Camel]

Oh, I'll do it. Today's question comes from Brooke in Illinois. I started a new job this week and I'm 15 weeks old, pregnant. After years of trying, it's truly a blessing to be this far along. Amazing. I've been there. Congratulations. I didn't expect having to change employers, but I lost my job and had to find another quickly. So here I am. My new company provides four months paid maternity leave after four months of employment. I don't feel comfortable telling them until after my four months of employment and I think I can hide it until then. Oh man. What should I say in this discussion when I tell them the news? I'm open to sharing my infertility journey as I do think that that would help them understand my situation. But I'm not sure that's necessary. I hope to be with this employer for a long time, so I really want to make a good impression and not be labeled as the girl who started a job while pregnant. Help. I got some strong feelings on this one, Ken.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Share it.

[George Camel]

The last thing I want any new mother in the world to do, particularly Somebody because I've been down this road. Road that when you get the most incredible, joyous news of your life, the first thing you think to do is to hang your head. And I hate that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Now when you said you'd be down this road, you mean you hired somebody that this happened to you?

[George Camel]

No, I've, I've experienced. Yes, I've had this happen. But also I've experienced infertility in my house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. Yeah. Okay, gotcha.

[George Camel]

And so what I want everybody in this situation you and your husband doing is cheering from the rooftops. Right. And there's a reality here. So my question number one would, would be is this a big multinational corporation that has some detached HR that has a inflexible. Here's just how we do things or are you working at a place like here that if we had a four, I don't know what our. I don't think we have this policy at all. But if we had a four month policy and somebody got pregnant at month three, I'm confident that we'd be like, oh, that's amazing. Go get them. Right. So I, that would be my first thing. The second thing is I don't ever want you compromising your integrity. Integrity for some down the road kind of thing. I want you to be fully honest, fully whole, fully you fully celebrating. And if your company fires you, you dodged a bullet like the Matrix.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[George Camel]

And you don't want to work for a company that is that soulless and that lack of that lacking that much integrity on their side. So that's my take on it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can't add anything to that. That's exactly what I was going to say. You have to tell the truth. I think this is actually a powerful story and I think anybody with a heart is going to go, yeah, well that's a bummer. We sure, you know, it's a bummer for us because we hire you now, you're going to go away. But my gosh, we're happy for you.

[George Camel]

And let's flip it around.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So they are right.

[George Camel]

If you hold this to go, oh, she's somebody who will hide stuff from us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, 100%. You got to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. So help you got. That's. That's the deal. And you let the chips fall where they may because here's the deal. You're not going to change the pregnancy.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So life is already dictated. This is my reality.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Just please don't go in there and this is easy for me. To say, please don't go in there and apologize. I'm so sorry. I walk in there and say after years of infertility, we're pregnant and I'm having a. We're crazy. People say that. But I'm pregnant. I'm having a baby and can we talk logistics?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And that's what I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Love it. Jen is up in St. Louis, Missouri. Jen, how can we help? Help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi. I'm so excited to speak to both of you. It is truly an honor. Thank you for being you and being awesome and being a part of this team. I am a longtime Ramsey fan, so I going to try to use your terms to kind of cut to the meat of what I'm asking about. I got talked into starting can you hear me?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep.

[Ken Coleman]

I got talked into starting a vul policy. I have gazelle like intensity. My husband and I both do. We have two full time jobs. We have real estate with multiple streams of income. So we were left with a lot of work. Liquid money we weren't sure what to do with. I own a school for young minds and I really want to dedicate my life to that. I had a goal in my head to be financially retired. I have a number I want to hit in 12 years when I'm 55. I got talked into VUL policy. But after listening to you all for a few months, I think maybe I paid a giant stupid tax at the velocity of which I put money into this for about 11 months. I don't know what to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So I would love your advice.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. I want to make sure we catch everybody up. When you say V, you're talking about a variable universal life policy, otherwise known as whole life. Yeah, I mean, you know what we believe about whole life. I mean, I was on with Dave earlier this week.

[Ken Coleman]

I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I mean, every time he gets the call, I just get nervous and I slightly move my chair to the right because I feel the heat emanating off spontaneously. Combination has been in the same position.

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, yeah. Good day to call in with this because we're not going to go on a giant rant.

[George Camel]

You. You can't see because of where. How you. We show the show. But there is burn marks at the top of the studio right above.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, I never noticed that. It's charred.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Dave doesn't have any hair on the top of his head in the smoke. And the fire shoots up story.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's why Dave is bald. Whole life. It's.

[Ken Coleman]

You got it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So the answer my Other. Hold on.

[Ken Coleman]

If I can add one more. Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not yet. Let's just bury the city. You, you should not have bought it. You're aware of it. You don't need me or John to pile on. Get out of it.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't put another nickel in it.

[George Camel]

I want to hear her. Yeah, but I'm different. Okay, go ahead.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, my brother is that I, at 55, I want to have income to replace the. Because right now I work in tech. I work in tech and I run the school.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And I want to have enough income so that my, my daughters don't suffer the lack of income that I will, that, that will shift down to. So that was the rule. Right. The other piece of this is that I was talking to it because we have health concerns in my family. And it was like, what if you have a health concern and then you want income if you know, you're not dead, but you're still alive? And you get expensive.

[George Camel]

I know, but you're, you're, you're taking, you're taking your money, you're handing it to somebody who's going to invest it and they're going to pay you an embarrassingly low rate. Like they're going to take the money and build themselves a new building and drive a newer car.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so take the money you're already putting in there and put it in the exact same market they're putting it in. Except keep the return.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Or put that money into insurance. If you've got some type of real health thing and you've got doctors saying there's a high probability. The point is, we want you to take care of your money. This is not, not a good product. It's never been a good product. You've heard us ran on this before. And if you need more on this, I'm going to see the balance of my time. To the gentleman from Texas, because he's actually nicer than me.

[George Camel]

I'm not. I'm not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, I. Yeah, but this is a bad idea. You know it's a bad idea.

[George Camel]

Here's what I'm curious about. You are clearly brilliant.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Brilliant.

[George Camel]

And so you've mentioned probably four times, maybe five, that you were talked into this. I'm wondering if the bigger issue here is you're not a woman who gets talked into any, anything but you did on this one, and you're kicking yourself and you're trying to do some mathematics, like some gymnastics to make this thing okay because you did a thing that you don't like to do.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell them what he's done, Bob.

[George Camel]

Pay the stupid tax. You're. You're still awesome. I almost said a swear word. You're still rad. You're awesome. Go on. And don't make this mistake again.

[Ken Coleman]

How would you suggest how I could achieve what I'm looking for? Is it just putting into brokerage's account all of our extra money into that?

[George Camel]

Well, it depends on. It depends on the nature and the acuity of your health issues. If. If I've got money in high yield savings account that I have decided this I want access to, it is worth the potential return on it. And then I put the rest of it. Yeah. And brokerage account, real estate could be that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Now again, you need to. This is a medical professional. I'm not telling you to do this, but if you know the specificity of this, we've got a history of this. Maybe long term care insurance.

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So this is again, a long term career. Care is far more safe. Am I right, John?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a policy.

[George Camel]

What are you worried about your daughter suddenly starving from.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I grew up poor and I have a scarcity mindset which I'm working through.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Ken Coleman]

Really, really created space around that because I've kind of become a bear and fearful and then I make stupid mistakes. Okay, real quick, asking big questions.

[George Camel]

I'm with you. I'm. You're. You're the same person.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What is your net worth right now? What do you have in retirement?

[Ken Coleman]

So we have over a million dollar net worth and we've filled every bucket you can normally fill.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Stop it, Jen. You just lost the sympathy of everyone in the studio audience in all of America. You're fine.

[George Camel]

I'm gonna send you Building a non anxious life. My book is a gift to you because you've got deeper rooted challenges and I've lived your life and I not your life, but I've got these saved game scarcity challenges. I don't want you to read this book and use it as a road map for what comes next. You're fine financially.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, guys. George Camel here with some exciting news for our Financial Peace University coordinators. If you've ever led FPU or even just thought about it, you've got to join us for our coordinator rally happening on July 24th. It's packed with insider updates, powerful stories and encouragement from me, Jade Warshaw and Dr. John DeLoney. It's totally free and when you register, you'll be entered to win our $3,000 giveaway. So just head to fpu.com rally to save your spot today. That's fpu.com rally. Hey, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and I know there's a lot of you out there because the data tells us so and I've been there before. It's exhausting. No shame in your game. But we do want to say come on into the pool of having margin. The water's real nice. Nice. I got a big floaty little Arnold Palmer in the cup holder and a really wacky straw. It's great. It's great over here in the debt free pool. We'd love you to join us.

[George Camel]

It's a free jazz playing in the background.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thank you. Absolutely right. Free every dollar training is what I'm attempting to set up. This is free. Did I mention that? It's free. And it's hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. George just hosted one a couple days ago. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget using every $$. And we're gonna help you find $9,000 of margin using everydollar so you can get out of debt, start building wealth. You can sign up for [e-mail] webinar. I should mention, not only you learning in a low pressure setting, you also get a chance to ask questions. And did I mention that it was free? I did. Everydollar.com webinar see you there. Robby's up in Omaha. Give me a Peyton Manning. Omaha. Real quick. John. Do you know what I'm talking about? You don't watch football, do you?

[George Camel]

I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. He missed the moment. The moment's gone. Robbie is there in Omaha. Robbie, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey. Oh my gosh. Thanks for taking my call. I just randomly called you guys out of the blue. Just kind of out of really just being extremely stressed out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, well, we're here for you. What's going on?

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you, guys. Yeah. So currently in the process of a divorce. It's pretty, pretty nasty. Overall, we combined between the two of us, we have, and I'm just speaking my debts and our joint debts, we have about 500k combined.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does that include a house or does that not include it does.

[Ken Coleman]

It does include a house. Give us the break.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, give us the break. Ground. Excuse me. The breakdown. Minus the house, please.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so minus the house, I have 170,000 in student loans.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I also have 20,000 in personal loans. We both have. We both each have our own cars. Hers is 9,000 minus 7,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is her name on that one or is your name on both?

[Ken Coleman]

My name's on both.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so let's call it 16,000 in cars, correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[George Camel]

Okay, and a quick question. Were y' all married when you were in college?

[Ken Coleman]

Not. No, it was after. After college.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, what. What other debt do we have left?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, so I also have $9,000 of medical bills, and we each have combined $8,000 in credit card debt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so the divorce final?

[Ken Coleman]

No, we're in the mediation process right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

What's nasty about it when you. When you. You say that?

[Ken Coleman]

It's. I mean, it's. It's been just non stop harassment for a very long time, and just. Just more on the emotional mental.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Load.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What is your. What is your income?

[Ken Coleman]

So my income, it was 73,000 annually right now for the last two months. It's dropped down to only 10,000. I transitioned, and now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You were making $73,000 gross, and you said you just transitioned into a job where you're making $10,000 gross for the year.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's not even real. What is happening? Give me the details as quickly as possible so we can dive in on this problem.

[Ken Coleman]

So I worked a job where I had to move into third shift, and prior to. To that. Prior to that, I did not have legal counsel. I was. I was trying to make all my payments on time. I was trying to. Trying to make all of our payments on time, and she just left me with everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, no, no, no, no. I. I get that. I'm sorry. How do you go from what is your job to where you're only making $10,000 a year?

[George Camel]

You're in health care.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, I don't understand. How did you roll down to $10,000? Like, you can. You can go to Starbucks today or go to McDonald's and double that. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What are you doing to make ten grand now?

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm working at the Y, trying to build my.

[George Camel]

Okay, did you get let go? Did something happen in your medical practice?

[Ken Coleman]

No, no. So. So I. So as soon as I. I moved to third shift, that's when she came in and filed a temporary order. And. And I lost custody of my kids.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I lost custody. Custody of my kids.

[George Camel]

So you have a restraining order out against you right now?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I. I have no restraining order.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, let me ask. I'm so sorry. I got to lean in. We have limited time. Okay. So we. We don't have a lot of time for backstory. I got to get some facts.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What specifically did you do in healthcare? What was your title position? What were you. Were you a nurse? What. What is. What were you doing?

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no. So I wasn't in healthcare. I was. I was in correction. Corrections.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, sure. You're a corrections officer.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did you lose your job?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I resigned because I. In order for. In order for me to even try to get custody of my kids back and because she took full, full custody because of the schedule change. My lawyer said it doesn't matter how much you make. Make right now. In order to get even joint custody, you have to have a schedule that, that is in the best interest of the kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, got it. Okay, Got it. Now here's my only question. I understand the lawyer and I'm no lawyer. I can't push back. John, you may have an opinion on this, but again, you have a massive income problem and your lawyer is an idiot if your lawyer isn't considering the income because you got to take care of your. You not to mention the kids. So why aren't we working a job in the same YMCA schedule in corrections or something else?

[Ken Coleman]

So I am actually just about to get a job that is more in the health and wellness.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How much will you make when you get that job and when will that happen?

[Ken Coleman]

$78,000 a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And when does that start?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, so I don't have an official start date right now. I'm going to. It's. It's through a company and I'm.

[George Camel]

Okay, listen. Until you have a start date. And I'm hoping that you're trying to be coy because you're in the middle of a divorce. You want to be careful about what you say because what you're. The way you're putting it out doesn't make a lot of logical sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I'm struggling.

[George Camel]

You. Your attorney's advice, you can't. If you file bankruptcy today, you're basically going to discharge like 30 grand. You can't discharge 170 thousand bucks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[George Camel]

And so the idea that you're going to bankrupt this money way is false. And so this, the, the, the next layer is I don't care what, what, how much money you make. Just go do this thing or you're going to lose your kids. You're going to lose your house and your kids and your car and your food. You don't have any money, man. And so the idea that you're going to go for making 75 grand third shift, I get that. A miserable life. I know those guys, the guys who work third Shift and corrections are just studs. And that doesn't mean you hit the pendulum. So far, you start working for less than. My son probably makes more than that. Yeah, and he's 15. Like. Like, you got to go say, okay, cool. I'm going to go throw boxes. I'm going to go run deliveries. I'm going to work like crazy during these hours when my wife has a kid so that I can have on my days off. And if you don't have a start date, awesome. It sounds weird. Weird, but great. Go get a whole bunch of jobs in between. But you're. You've backed yourself into a crazy corner, and, dude, you owe a hundred. How did you get $170,000 for a corrections job?

[Ken Coleman]

It wasn't for correction.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What was your degree in?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, criminology and criminal justice.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Go get a freaking job.

[George Camel]

Yeah, go be a policeman, dude. Go to the. Go to the academy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is nuts.

[George Camel]

Unless you're. Unless, dude. Unless you're trying to hide money for a divorce, which I hope to God you're not doing, because that's going to come out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Something's not adding up to this. I tell you what I do want to do, because we. We spent so much time just excavating some facts from you. Can we set him up? Let's get him one. One. Our gift. A session with. With a financial coach to kind of map out the future here. Once we get the fresh.

[George Camel]

Sam.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 54, verse 2. Enlarge the place of your tent. Stretch your tent curtains wide. Do not hold back. Lengthen your cords and strengthen your stakes. And then quite a pivot from Isaiah 54 to our quote of the day from Ozzy Osborne. Okay, you've got to try and take things to the next level, or you'll just get stuck. Stuck in a rut. Might as well have been a quote from Farmers Almanac.

[George Camel]

We're going off the rails on a crazy trip.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm not sure what the team did there, but I'm just here to read what they put in front of me, you know? There you go. Michael is joining us now in our backyard, Nashville, Tennessee. Michael, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Good evening, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You bet. What's going on?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, man. I'm wanting to make a retirement plan for January of 27. Meet the Retirement protocol for my company, and I'll be. But I'll only be 54, and I won't. I want to see if I can make the same money after I retire.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. How do you think you're going to go about doing that?

[Ken Coleman]

So through work. Sorry. To work. We have a pension plan. I have two options on my pension plan. One is at retirement. I will have $80,000 a year on pension. My last year's income was roughly 144. Taxable income was 120 after I funded my retirement stuff. So I'll be at 80 there. And my 457 will be, you know, they're projecting 450, but right now it's at 404.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I would like to, you know, he'll make that 120 to 140.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Now when you say that, I want to make sure we're on the same page with you. When you say that, you mean through pulling out? You know, pulling out from your retirement accounts. Are you saying go above and beyond? And by going out, I'm going to work another job while pulling retirement from my old, old job?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, man, I'll tell you, ideally, I would like to be able to retire and, and live off, you know, that, that money invested.

[George Camel]

What are you gonna do, brother?

[Ken Coleman]

Man, I'll tell you something, man. Guys, probably like most of y', all I've worked as since I was big enough to push a lawnmower. So I'm a family homebody.

[George Camel]

Here's, here's the thing. All the data tells me that the moment a. And this, this is not universal gendered, but I'm going to make it so the day a man quits work and does not have a purpose, his body shuts down, health outcomes worsen, everything falls off a cliff. So when you tell me, I just want. Dude, I've been working hard my whole life. Dude, I'm with you. I've had a mowing job since I was 8 years old. Like, I'm with you. This idea that I want to do nothing, I'm telling you right now, as my neighbor and my friend, it's gonna kill you.

[Ken Coleman]

So I see that. I see that I'm involved with my family. We're all Christians. Not that that matters. But yeah, I might do something. But I, I just want to know that I can take this money and my.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

And my. So that would, whatever I got would be, you know, what fluff or, you know, mad money or whatever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what's your total. What do you have? Total entertainment retirement?

[Ken Coleman]

I have 404 and a 457. And then my pension will be 80,000 a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you. And so could you live off of just the pension alone of 80,000 if you run some numbers.

[Ken Coleman]

Close.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so here's. Here's the practical answer to your question. Okay, here's the practical answer, John. Ken, I want to know, can I live off of what I got right now? So you got to run on a budget and you currently have a budget, I hope. Yes.

[George Camel]

I know it.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not written down. So what, I need a written.

[George Camel]

Bro, you're hilarious, Michael. Just listen to the question you're asking us. I want to stop working. I want to keep making the exact same amount of money I made when I was working. I don't want to really do anything but kind of be a family guy. And I kind of got it all up in my head. We are telling you, we're promising you as your neighbor here in Nashville. Yeah. This is a recipe for a car crash.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it's not gonna work. So let's get to the tactical. Okay. First thing is you need to download every dollar. It's our budgeting app. It's the best thing and you need to start tinkering with it and plug in real numbers and no longer have this. I got a general idea. No, no, we need to know what we actually need to live. Live on. Okay? I'm talking your basic four walls. Food, clothing, utilities, your housing, transportation, all of that stuff. Okay. And then, and then you know what you and mama think retirement life is going to look like? You know, what's our weekend thing? Are we. Are we going down the. So you know, to the. To what's the chicken. The hot chicken place in. What are we doing? You know, and so here's the deal. First things first. First, what is our actual operating budget? Okay. Second, okay, do we have any debt? If we have debt. So we need to clear debt.

[George Camel]

Do you have any.

[Ken Coleman]

So I have a $168,000 left on my house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

That's low for two point something. So it's a thousand bucks a month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And then the rest is just the, you know, living expenses of the house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not so you have no concern consumer debt.

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Great. So we checked that off the list. So we now got a budget. And so now, Michael, you need to call John and I and go, you know, I need to know if I've got enough. Once we have a budget, we know what it's going to take to live. Now we start matching it up with. We know we have $80,000 coming in from the pension. And so we go, okay, what is the take home on that? Okay. And so we start matching it up and then we've got 450,000 over here. And if I draw how much much would I need to draw from the 450 to make up the difference of the 80? Okay, you still tracking with me, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And so then we have a number and then we go. If I draw that much, can I draw from the 450 enough to offset what's missing from the 80 if I need a little bit more? And that's what you've laid out to me. And so can I draw. Hold on a second. Hold on, hold on. Can I draw that out and not touch the principle? I think it's going to be tight. And I think you would also need to sit down with what we call smartvestor. Pros go to Ramsey Solutions. If you don't have one, get one interview, three, four, five. And sit down and let a pro look at your retirement nest egg and what you want to do and what you want to live off of. And by the way, they're going to need to know a real budget for them to advise you.

[George Camel]

Can I tell you something? I. Michael.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir.

[George Camel]

This is not a baby step. This is just John and my friend Michael who are neighbors here in Nashville. You're 54. Is that what you said?

[Ken Coleman]

I will be at when I. When I want to retire.

[George Camel]

Okay, give me a ballpark. You don't have to tell me the job because we're on national radio, but what do you do for a living? Ish.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm in safety.

[George Camel]

You're in what? Sales. In safety and safety. There you go. Okay. Can I tell you, I would sit down. It's going to be a cheesy exercise and it's not the dollar amount you ask, but it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna be an important conversation to have with yourself. I would love for you to have an imaginary conversation. You can write a letter. You can just do it in your mind and have a conversation with 65 year old you. And here's the question I would ask. Ask if you work two more years and put all that down and pay your house off, are you going to be glad you did that? Versus getting out and having an asset that you still owe money on as you're trying to also retire and do these fun things that you want to do. That's just me. I don't think I would pull that trigger at 54.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love that.

[George Camel]

Until my house was paid off. That's just me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think it's great advice.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. So I've Got a plan. Two options on pension. Okay, I can. They have a formula I plug in today. Second option on the pension is we're allowed to take 50% of our. This is the 80 grand, not the 457. 50% of that up to a certain age, we can get as a lump sum right now that lump sum. But if you take 50%, the 80 goes to 40. Right. But the. So the lump sum sum, in addition to my 457 right now is about 620,000 lump sum. So the 620 plus the 440 and then 40,000 a year.

[George Camel]

Dave can do that math in his head. I would recommend you sit down with a smartvestor, because I would be tempted to take, if the math works, to take that lump sum, pay my house off, and then put the arrest in an investment if it's going to accrue faster than your pension, which I bet it will. But do not do that. Based on my advice. I would sit down with a smart vestor pro and rattle that off. That's. That's what I do. And then take the 40. But I also would not quit my life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[George Camel]

At 54, you're halfway home, brother.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

54 is young, man.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Get it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Keep on working. I love your advice.

[George Camel]

Find some purpose, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What if you could watch the Ramsey show before anyone else? Well, good news. Now you can. For the first time ever, you can stream the show a day early in the Ramsey Network app. That's tomorrow's episode today. Real calls, real answers, real fast. It's free, it's easy, and the content might just change your life. So search Ramsey Network in Google Play or the App Store or click the link in the show notes. You never know what calls coming up next.