The Faster You Attack Your Debt - The Faster You Achieve Financial Freedom

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show Episode: The Faster You Attack Your Debt - The Faster You Achieve Financial Freedom
Release Date: May 28, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: Dr. John DeLoney, Ph.D. in Counseling

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney delve into strategies and personal stories centered around aggressively tackling debt to achieve financial freedom. The conversation is peppered with real-life caller experiences, expert advice, and motivational success stories that underscore the importance of disciplined financial management.

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Caller Story: Erica's Struggle with Family Debt Pressure

Caller: Erica from Charlotte, North Carolina
Timestamp: [00:49] - [08:04]

Summary:
Erica shares a distressing situation involving her Brazilian family's inheritance. Her grandmother had decided to donate a portion of her estate, leaving Erica and her mother as beneficiaries. However, Erica's aunt has been attempting to steal the entire estate, leading to legal battles. Erica is pressured by her mother to contribute $500 towards legal fees, which conflicts with her and her husband's commitment to Baby Step Two—saving and paying off debt. Despite their financial restraint, Erica feels compelled to help her family but is torn by cultural expectations and familial responsibilities.

Notable Quotes:

• Erica: "So my now 2-year-old, one of her first words was 225. And we knew that she just wanted to listen to." [00:49]
• Dave Ramsey: "I would say no is the correct answer." [04:10]
• Dr. John DeLoney: "Baby step two, that's a no brainer. That's easy." [05:23]

Advice Provided:

• Ramsey advises Erica to firmly say no to her mother's financial demands, emphasizing the importance of setting boundaries to protect her financial goals.
• Dr. DeLoney reinforces the notion that prioritizing personal financial steps over familial pressures is crucial for long-term stability.

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Caller Story: Jenny's Tax Forgiveness and Financial Turmoil

Caller: Jenny from Portland, Oregon
Timestamp: [10:21] - [19:44]

Summary:
Jenny discusses her predicament involving unpaid taxes over the past 15 years while trying to regain financial stability after overcoming homelessness and trauma, including CPTSD and a traumatic brain injury. She expresses concern that her tax issues could distract from an ongoing investigation into workplace abuse. Dave Ramsey recommends filing past tax returns and establishing a repayment plan, clarifying that not filing taxes is a criminal offense. However, Jenny feels overwhelmed by her financial obligations and fears that taking action might jeopardize her abuse investigation.

Notable Quotes:

• Jenny: "So I'm needing help with the tax forgiveness program." [10:21]
• Dave Ramsey: "The faster you cut into this, the deeper you cut into this, the faster you're going to get out." [07:52]
• Dr. John DeLoney: "The only way around this spin is right through it." [16:13]

Advice Provided:

• Ramsey emphasizes the urgency of addressing tax issues by consulting a CPA and filing overdue returns.
• Dr. DeLoney encourages Jenny to prioritize manageable steps to regain control over her finances, despite the emotional and legal complexities involved.

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Success Story: Randall and Renee's Debt-Free Journey

Callers: Randall and Renee from Greenville, South Carolina
Timestamp: [21:38] - [31:17]

Summary:
Randall and Renee recount their successful journey to becoming debt-free, eliminating $207,414 in debt within 25 months. They achieved this by selling assets, including a truck and restricted stock, and adhering strictly to a disciplined budget and the Financial Peace University (FPU) plan. Their commitment included drastic lifestyle changes, such as limiting entertainment expenses and finding free or low-cost alternatives for family activities.

Notable Quotes:

• Randall: "We went crazy selling everything that we had in our house." [06:03]
• Renee: "We checked every naughty box that we should." [22:39]
• Dave Ramsey: "We're debt free. That's how it's done." [30:41]

Advice Provided:

• The couple emphasizes the importance of a strict budget, selling non-essential assets, and staying committed to the debt snowball method.
• Ramsey and Dr. DeLoney highlight their determination and the support from their church community as key factors in their success.

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Business Advice: Jenny's Inquiry on Purchasing a Construction Management Business

Caller: Jenny from Tennessee
Timestamp: [32:50] - [43:54]

Summary:
Jenny seeks advice on whether to purchase a construction management business for $75,000, considering her status as a DACA recipient, which limits her eligibility for scholarships and federal aid. She owns a rental portfolio generating $1,000 monthly profit and has manageable debt. Dave Ramsey suggests negotiating the purchase price and scrutinizing the business's profitability, advising her to focus on actionable financial steps rather than relying solely on formal education.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: "Here's what I would do. I would offer him $60,000, and I'm gonna pay you 100% of the profit of the business until we get to 60,000." [37:08]
• Dr. John DeLoney: "How do you navigate that? That's tough." [26:43]

Advice Provided:

• Ramsey recommends negotiating a lower purchase price and utilizing the business's profits to pay off the debt swiftly.
• Emphasis is placed on practical skills and hands-on experience over formal certifications in the construction management field.

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Final Caller: Jeff's Dilemma with Vet Bills and Debt

Caller: Jeff from California
Timestamp: [77:26] - [83:27]

Summary:
Jeff faces a heart-wrenching decision regarding his dog's hefty veterinary bills. He is torn between paying for life-saving treatments and avoiding deeper financial debt. Dave Ramsey and Dr. DeLoney advise prioritizing financial stability, suggesting that taking on debt for a pet's medical expenses is not advisable. They emphasize making rational decisions that align with long-term financial health, even amid emotional turmoil.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: "The faster you attack your debt, the faster you're going to get out." [07:52]
• Dr. John DeLoney: "They've gotten so sophisticated with vet medicine now. It's almost. They can do, like, the surgeries they do on people, they can do on these dogs now." [83:12]

Advice Provided:

• Ramsey underscores the importance of not incurring debt for non-essential expenses, including pet care.
• Dr. DeLoney adds that compassion must be balanced with financial responsibility, urging Jeff to make decisions that honor the pet without compromising financial freedom.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Ramsey Show offers a comprehensive exploration of debt management through personal narratives and expert guidance. From navigating familial financial pressures to overcoming substantial debt through disciplined budgeting and asset liquidation, listeners gain valuable insights into achieving financial freedom. The show's emphasis remains on taking decisive actions, setting clear boundaries, and prioritizing long-term financial health over immediate emotional comforts.

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Notable Takeaways:

• Set Firm Boundaries: Protect your financial goals by saying no to external pressures that compromise your debt repayment plan.
• Prioritize Debt Repayment: Aggressively tackle debt using strategies like the debt snowball method and asset liquidation.
• Seek Professional Help: Consult CPAs and financial advisors to navigate complex financial situations, such as tax issues or business acquisitions.
• Support Systems are Crucial: Engage with supportive communities and mentors to stay motivated and accountable on your financial journey.
• Emotional Decision-Making: Recognize the influence of emotions on financial decisions and strive to make choices that ensure long-term stability.

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For More Information: Visit www.ramseysolutions.com to learn more about debt management strategies, Financial Peace University, and other resources to help you achieve financial freedom.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, Dr. John DeLoney, Ph.D. in counseling, Ramsey personality number one. Best bestselling author and host of the popular Dr. John DeLoney show on Ramsey Networks. All of that, he's my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Erica is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey Erica, what's up in your world?

[Erica]

Hi guys. First, it's an honor to speak with you both. My family and I were big fans. So much so that my now 2 year old, one of her first words was 225. And we knew that she just wanted to listen to.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what she's got the phone number down already. She knows who to call in an emergency. I love it.

[Erica]

That's right. So I'm going to, I wrote this down because I'm super nervous, but I hope that's okay. So I'm originally from Brazil, although as of recently I'm incredibly proud to say that I'm an American. The Brazilian laws make it super complicated to leave a customizable will. So decades ago my grandmother decided that she was going to called donate a portion of her part of the estate that she had to split in half with her deceased husband. And I don't know exactly how much. I think my portion is like 30%. As of early last year, my aunt has been trying to steal this entire estate from my mother and I, who are the other two beneficiaries. Last night at 8:30 at night I got a text from my mom, long text, basically asking me to pitch in with lawyer fees. Now this lawyer fee is not crazy like it is here because of the exchange rate, but it would be around like $500. And then she also said that Wednesday, tomorrow there's going to be a, she's going to be signing a contract and there's going to be another additional fee that I would have to pitch in with halfway probably. Now my husband and I, we have no problem doing this. But we are in baby step number two. We have been working really hard for 15 months. We are finally a little bit trying to be a little bit more financially responsible where my parents are completely the opposite way. I said no. And in the Brazilian culture, how dare you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So When I said no, that's just the mother culture.

[Erica]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I got you. All right. Your Brazilian mom might put a little more. A little more flare.

[Erica]

Oh, my gosh. It's just so such drama. So when I said no, she stopped responding to my texts because then I asked, is there any wiggle room? Like, when is this due? Is it due right now? Basically, in the text message she was saying, give me $500 now. Give me a blank number. She doesn't know tomorrow. And so now she's basically not really speaking to me. And because I have two little babies at home, they talk to me all the time. So it's always been really hard for me to say no to them, especially when it comes to finances. Like, I've. They put me into a ton of debt when I was. Before I got married. And, you know, how much is Erica?

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is this inheritance?

[Erica]

I don't know exactly. They would have to sell the entire house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Give me a. Give me a rough estimate in American dollars, please.

[Erica]

Around. Around maybe 30,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would say no is the correct answer.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Erica]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not 3 million, and it's probably not 30,000 by the time you get through with all this. Yeah, you're going to burn more calories than that. Just wave bye bye. Put it in the rearview mirror. Yeah, mom, you can have my half.

[Erica]

Do I say something like, I'll pay it later? No, I'm done with my no.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. I think you gave him an answer. Yeah, no is a complete sentence.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And part of you doesn't believe your mom's narrative, do you?

[Erica]

Well, you believe. Sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It sounds like you don't fully believe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your mom because really doing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't call for lawyer fees at the last minute the night before.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, your mom needs money for something else, doesn't she?

[Erica]

Maybe.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But that's why you feel. That's why you feel sick to your stomach. Because if this was 500 bucks for. For $30,000 that you knew you're gonna get, then that's a no brainer. You wouldn't be calling.

[Dave Ramsey]

And all the players involved were credible except the aunt, but yeah, even a.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Baby step two, that's a no brainer. That's easy. That becomes one of your bills because that's a. I mean, it's a thing you need to cover to help accelerate this thing. That's not the case here.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you wouldn't call someone. You wouldn't call your friend up and present something this vague and ambiguous.

[Erica]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you would say, here's precisely what's going on? Here's the exact amount. And you would do it a week before, not 12 hours before?

[Erica]

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so there's something wrong. Smells bad. You know why it smells bad? Because it stinks.

[Erica]

That's right. The problem that my husband and I have is that they have like a bunch of assets that they could sell off. We went crazy selling everything that we had in our house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but don't get out of their heads that's gonna make you and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your husband, if you join, crazy in their head. It makes you crazy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah. Don't get in their head and try to figure out why they are or are not doing things. Be grateful that you and your husband have made the choices you've made and you are gonna have real freedom for person in your lineage.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let me, let me, let me try to paint this another way. When you get out of baby step two and you finish your emergency fund in baby step three and you start baby step four, you're how old right now?

[Erica]

I'm 30. My husband's 30.

[Dave Ramsey]

So when you're 40, you're going to be a millionaire, Right?

[Erica]

I mean, Jesus name.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And what's your household income?

[Erica]

My husband makes 90 right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm a stay at home mom in Jesus name. And in the name of math, somewhere around 10 to 15 years from now, you will be there. Okay. And so whether or not you get this $30,000, your destiny on this earth, your quality of providing for your children is not based on this inheritance. If you never see this inheritance, which is fairly likely at this point, your life goes on.

[Erica]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So this is more about you just telling your mom no and loving it.

[Erica]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And smiling. Just smiles. Be sweet. Just say, mom, I love you and I understand this means a lot to you, and I'm not. I would be happy to get the inheritance and I'd be happy to put some money towards this, but not in the circumstances you presented. And so I can't do it right now. Sorry.

[Erica]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or you can honestly say we don't have the money right now.

[Erica]

Well, yeah, that's what I said. And she said, well, I don't have the money right now. And I wanted to be like, okay, then why did you go shopping Saturday?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, there you go. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's my problem. Well, yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so, yeah, I don't have them. I mean, you can honestly say that until you're at least at a baby step two, we don't have the money right now. We're negative. And why is it such an emergency now?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, this is weird. Erica, you smelled a rat and you're used to it. And you know more about this drama and this narrative than we do. We've only got two minutes into it and we can smell it.

[Erica]

So you're right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's hard that setting boundaries with people who don't respect boundaries 100% of the times makes the other person crazy. They go bananas 100% of the time. You get a negative reaction when you set a boundary with a boundaryless person. Your mom's not used to anybody telling her no if they happen to be in her string of the DNA. And so it's something she needs to get used to, it'll be good for her. It's kind of sweet. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, listen up. Everyone is at risk of identity theft. I don't care if you're a hermit living off the grid, listening to the show on a battery powered radio. All of your data collected by every company you've ever done business with lives on online. Your bank, your doctor's office, retailers, the apps on your phone, the gas station where you have loyalty rewards, they all store your info online, making them ripe for a cyber attack or data breach. That's why I've been telling people for almost 25 years they need an ID theft protection plan. And the only one I've ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. They monitor your personal and financial info, even your home title, and take over the work if you become a victim. It's the most thorough and affordable plan out there. I even have it for my family and our entire team. Visit Xander.com or call 800-356-4282. Jenny's in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Jenny. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Erica]

Thank you, Dave. I have a question about tax forgiveness.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Erica]

I was diagnosed with CPTSD and a traumatic brain injury and got onto Social Security because I was homeless. Someone told taught me how to use one of the delivery platforms and I was able to start working and. But because those platforms don't take out taxes, I am starting an investigation at work regarding abuse and they're going to investigate me. And. And I don't want my tax issues to distract them from, you know, the real issue that I'm trying to get taken care of. So I'm needing help with the tax forgiveness program.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you haven't filed taxes in how long?

[Erica]

The last time I filed taxes, which.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was 2,010, 15 years.

[Erica]

Yes, I was. I was.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you've been earning an income You've been earning an income for how many years?

[Erica]

Five years. Besides the disability I was getting before.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And your recovery to where you're functioning again, I'll use my words. I don't know if that's the right words. Dr. John can help me with that. But where you become sustainable again, your recovery from the traumatic brain injury and the PTSD is five years ago to where you became able to support yourself and sustain. Is that right?

[Erica]

Yes. I have since been triggered. I started in Portland, Oregon. There was the riots, and so, you know, and then I'm a caregiver as well. And, you know, I've been traumatized at work, especially by my current situation. So there has been. I have still experienced panic attacks and things like that, but I am trying my hardest to be a working member of society again, because I started working when I was 14.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But what I'm trying to figure out is, okay, at the point that you were earning an income and you were functioning at that point prior to that, I understand, not filing taxes, but from that point forward, which is about five years, why did you not file? Because you knew to.

[Erica]

Yes, yes, yes. I was overwhelmed with the process. I had started several times looking into it, and then something would happen. I would stop working and have to move again. So there was a lot of.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is. What has been your income through that five years?

[Erica]

It's. I honestly don't know. But, you know, it started out well.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then, I mean, were you making 30,000 or you're making 300,000?

[Erica]

I was making. At one point, I was making about a thousand a week. Delivering.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm.

[Erica]

And that lasted for a few months, and then it, you know, went down from there to about maybe 2 to 3,000amonth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you gotten a phone call or a letter from the government asking for your taxes?

[Erica]

I have. I have not. Partly because I've been moving around a lot because I'm still homing, housing and secure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. The. The technical, tactical answer to your question, which is not the answer to your problem, but it is the answer to your question is to go to ramseysolutions.com and click on tax ELP and get a tax CPA. If you come, quote, unquote, out of the cold on your own and you come forward, they will not criminally prosecute you for not filing taxes. Not paying taxes is not criminal. Not filing taxes is criminally prosecuted. 2,576 people, 2576 people last year got criminal prosecution for not filing. So you need to go file yesterday. Okay. Listen, listen. The process will sound like this. Sit down with the CPA and they will file three years and they'll help you reconstruct the last three years. You will owe the taxes for those three years. There is not tax forgiveness. There is criminal forgiveness, but there's not tax forgiveness. Okay? Now there is back in the days when you were a pauper, but you're not a pauper now. You're not on Social Security. You're not, you know, you're making a quote, unquote, living. Okay, so.

[Erica]

Well, the. The problem is Social Security refused to stop paying me because that's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not a problem. Yeah, I'm talking about. I'm talking about you're not poor. If you have zero money of any kind coming in and zero assets, you can get some tax forgiveness. You don't qualify.

[Erica]

So I would not go right now. I have no income and I have about $500 in the bank. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm sorry, I thought you told me you had a job.

[Erica]

I did, that I was fired because I'm bringing up these abuse accusations. And so instead of investigating the abuse, they're investigating me. And so I'm trying to take care of this issue so that doesn't interfere with the abuse case that there was easy to start. So it's a big mess.

[Dave Ramsey]

So now you're. Now, now you have to go get another job, right?

[Erica]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Yeah. Because since you're employable, I think your answer to your question is you need to get three years tax returns file and then begin some kind of a repayment plan, even if it's a dollar. But get something going to get this monkey off your back because this is in the background worrying you along with all the other things that are chasing you.

[Erica]

It is. I did do that and someone did reach out to me, but it was above my. My budget, so I didn't know if there was any kind of program.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Erica]

Help me. No. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not that I'm aware of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Coming up with a re. A repayment schedule is not a problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you have to file the tax returns. Right? So. Yeah. And you probably. If you only have $500 to your name and you don't have a job today, you probably don't file them this week. But the sooner you file them, the sooner you get rid of the criminal threat hanging over you. Okay? And it's not. Listen, none of that's going to affect a job if you have a valid claim for abuse in the workplace. You not filing your taxes is not A destruction of your character. Okay? The abuse either was criminal or civil in nature, and it either happened or it didn't happen. Your taxes are an irrelevant variable in that discussion.

[Jenny]

Okay, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And can we can focused on. Yeah, yeah. Focus is the word. Because let's be very, very honest. Okay. When you get triggered leading up to those moments when things just get real heavy, there's usually several things spinning around at once. Is that fair?

[Erica]

I'm gonna. I've been in a spin for over a week. Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. So here's what I want you to do. The only way around this spin is right through it. So let's write down those things that are causing us to spin up. Do we owe taxes? It feels like I owe a million dollars. You don't. You don't owe a million bucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

You may not owe anything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. You may not own anything because you may not have earned enough. But let's get. Let's. Let's go right through that one. Let's put the next one down. Let's write the next thing down. And some of those things, like Dave said, you got to get a cpa. You got to get somebody to walk with you through that. But the only way to peace here is through the middle of it. And, man, you've got the help you needed. You want to be back earning a living and being up on your own, having autonomy. That's amaz. I'm proud of you for that. And I hate that you got somewhere and got settled and then they treated you poorly. That's the worst, right?

[Erica]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. But Dave and I believe in you. Okay.

[Erica]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so what I want you to focus on is not. And just listening to you. And I'm just a guy. Dr. John's got the PhD. Okay. But just listening to you. I want you to focus on the things you can control, not the things that happened in your rear view mirror. The traumatic brain injury, the ptsd, the former employer that was, at a minimum, a jerk at a maximum of things. Okay? Those are not things you can control. And if you spend all your rent, your rent in your brain, your calorie, your brain calories on things in the past you can't change. It keeps you from moving forward to things you can change, which is get a job, get solid, get sustainable, get peace back in where your lights are paid, your food's on your table, you're not got $500 again. Okay? And then you can afford to fight these people if you want to. You may not want to at that point may not be worth it. I don't know.

[Erica]

Well, what I. Yeah, what I'm fighting for is. Is the other caregiver was abusing our clients. That's.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not. That's not. You don't have the money to be a crusader right now. I want you to crusade for Erica.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you. I mean, Jenny. I want you to crusade for Jenny. I don't know who Erica is, but I want you to crusade for Jenny. I want. I want you to be the topic right now. So I'm more concerned about you than you crusading for some moral outrage in the society. You're not got the strength of the money to do that right now, kiddo.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. Get our housing taken care of and let's get those taxes filed. And that will give you some peace, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Get you a job.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then if you want to pursue some moral outrage, let's do that. But moral outrage is taking up all your space right now, kiddo. That's what we heard when we're talking to you. Let's be honest. Shopping for health insurance can be confusing with high costs, complicated terms, and customer service that doesn't really serve you. Most folks just pick a plan and hope for the best. See, insurance companies don't work for you. They work for themselves. Meaning they love it when you overpay. So you need a guide on your team to help you make the best choices. Health Trust Financial works for you. They're not salespeople. They help you find the health insurance option that makes sense and saves you money. The fact is, health insurance is one of the biggest expenses in your budget. But most people who work with Health Trust Trust Financial end up saving $500 a month. Imagine putting that kind of money toward the baby steps. My team has worked with them for over 20 years and they've served thousands of people just like you. They're the only health insurance broker that's Ramsey trusted to help you. So stop throwing money away and get the health insurance that's right for [e-mail] that's health trust Financial. Jamie and Kimberly are on the debt free stage right here in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. How are you doing?

[Randall]

Great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where do you guys live?

[Randall]

We're in Greenville, South Carolina, actually, Anderson, South Carolina. Right outside of Greenville.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very nice. That's a beautiful area. Certainly love it over there. Greenville's done such a good job with their downtown.

[Randall]

Yes, they have.

[Dave Ramsey]

We started going over there before that and then have gone obviously since. And it's just. It's really beautiful. They done a good job. Welcome to Nashville.

[Randall]

Thank you very much.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt have you two paid off?

[Randall]

$207,414.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. And how long did that take?

[Randall]

25 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

25. Whoa, that's quick. And your range of income during that two years?

[Randall]

I think we started about 186, went all the way up to now 252.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, that's nice. Jump in two years.

[Randall]

Yeah, we've been blessed.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you guys do for a living?

[Renee]

So I teach nursing. I'm a nurse in critical care and teach at Clemson.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Randall]

And I work in human resources.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So just some really nice bumps in both careers, huh?

[Randall]

Very blessed. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. What kind of Debt was the 207?

[Randall]

It was everything, Dave. Everything you teach us not to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

You were normal.

[Randall]

You're normal people.

[Renee]

We checked every naughty box that we should.

[Dave Ramsey]

What were the naughty boxes? Let's talk about them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's a very South Carolina way to put that. It's in the naughty box.

[Renee]

It's in the naughty box.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here was Santa. So what are the naughty boxes? Tell us about them.

[Randall]

11 credit cards, two car loans, a medical debt, a HELOC and a 401k loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a partridge and a parachute. Yes, I can tell. Wow. Guys, you did do it all. How long y' all been married?

[Randall]

So we're a blended family. It's. We're getting close to 10 years next April.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay, great. So you brought some of this together.

[Renee]

We did, we did.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then. And then added. Added some more.

[Renee]

We did, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what happened 25 months ago that flipped the switch for y' all.

[Randall]

So Kim's in the middle of her. Well, at the time, was in the middle of doing her doctorate program. Doctorate of nursing practice leadership. And it just got too much, honestly, for her. I wasn't as involved in the finances as I should have been. So I took that on and realized that we were pretty. Pretty much drowning in debt and just overcame us. And we're like, we gotta do something. So we went through our church, New Spring Church in Anderson, and they offered fpu. We signed up, started shortly. Right around Valentine's Day of 2023.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. Wow. Good for you.

[Renee]

And it was originally supposed to take us, like, four to five years to get out of debt. And Jamie just led us through it, and he said, you know what? We're gonna do this in half that time. Dave, he cut me down to $20 a month for fun money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, he didn't cut you down. He did. Nobody cuts you down. You volunteered for this $20. Volunteered and acted like he did it. I can tell all the things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so here's. Here's. I always.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y' all are awesome.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm always perplexed by this. Y' all are both really smart people. How do really smart people end up under this? Almost a half a million dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

Quarter million of debt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean. A quarter million dollars of debt? Yeah.

[Renee]

I think not. Planning.

[Randall]

Yeah. We had no plan.

[Renee]

We had no concept. You know, it gets easy. We talk about that, you know, easy to hit that automatic pay button on things and when you don't have the money to charge it and worry about it later, you know, it wasn't like we were really being extravagant or living extravagant lifestyles. It was just one poor decision after another of how to handle things that would come up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you averaged $8,000 a month for two years on debt reduction. Did you sell stuff?

[Randall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the big thing you sold?

[Randall]

Sold a truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was that? How much of that?

[Randall]

About 12,000, I think, is what we got for the truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Randall]

We actually. We cashed in a whole life policy that we found out she had.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and then how much was that?

[Randall]

14,000. And then I cashed in some stock from restricted stock.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much was that?

[Randall]

That was another 15.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that. That's like 60,000, 55,000, those three things. And the rest of it, you just got punched.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Yeah, we worked hard. I worked a couple jobs.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can. Yeah, you got a lot of.

[Renee]

A lot of opportunities to do that. And, you know, anything we could, we sold. And we lived really lean. We had bargain food dates, didn't we, babe?

[Randall]

Yeah, we did like it.

[Renee]

We would go and, you know, see how much groceries we could get for a hundred dollars and at the Knock and Dent grocery store.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I like that.

[Renee]

It was fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fun. And you just made a game out of it.

[Renee]

We did.

[Dave Ramsey]

And said we're gonna be free.

[Randall]

Yep. We, you know, we tried to make it fun. It's a tough thing to do, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it sucks.

[Randall]

It. It does. And then we found creative ways to do things free. We did family fun night, or actually what we call our daughter calls forced family fun night.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got voluntold. Forced family fun.

[Randall]

A lot of cards. A lot of card nights, game nights, that sort of thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How did y' all manage? Y' all make good salaries. You're a professor at Clemson. You're an HR director. People just assume when they walk out to the Parking lot. You're not going to be driving a certain thing. And how did y' all. How did y' all navigate that? It's tough to tell your friends, like, I'm not getting my nails done in South Carolina. Cause that's what a Southern woman. Duh. Right. And I can't. Or I can't go get coffee with you guys.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or I'm not going. I'm not going to. Not. I can't. But I'm choosing not to. How do you all navigate that? That's tough.

[Renee]

I think, you know, having it really showed us who our true friends are. You know, being vulnerable and sharing our story with where we were at. You know, I took not quite a 50% pay cut, but a dramatic pay cut to leave the bedside and go to teaching. And we just didn't plan for it. So when we realized how significant it was, we really just. Just reached out to our people and said, this is where we're at, and we need your support, and here's what we're gonna do. And they. They went on the journey with us. You know, they. They said, I know you can't, you know, go out to eat.

[Theon]

Do you want to come over and.

[Renee]

Have dinner tonight and bring your games? And, you know, so we just did that with our people, and I think that, you know, it made us closer with them because we were vulnerable, and they prayed over us and just really helped us. So we're fortunate to have these amazing people. And, of course, Mike and Becky are our mentors for FPU and right there with us. So, you know, when the bills came up that were unexpected or whatever we could call them and be like, what do we do? And Mike would always say, well, Dave would tell you to do, go, Mike, go, baby. Those kind of things. So I think that really helped a lot. But.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's a wonderful church y' all are a part of. I think I've spoken there, if I recall, and if it's where I'm thinking it is. And I think all of the whole place went through FPU at one point, so that's pretty incredible. So congratulations, y' all. How does it feel to be free?

[Renee]

Amazing.

[Randall]

Just the. The weight of the debt is off the shoulders. You keep. You just feel better, you wake up better, you wake up energized.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. Yeah, that's kind of how. That's right there. That's the one. Yeah.

[Renee]

And of course, as soon as, you know, we got debt free, then the enemy tries to creep in. And we had Murphy showed up an Air conditioner that went out, which, you know, that's not cheap. And then we had about $4,200 of medical bills that popped up. We had to pay those, and for the first time, and he was like, not a problem. And it was just so freeing to know that, you know, no matter what life throws at us, we have a plan that we're gonna get together and get through this, and we have our people praying for us, and it's. It's the lightest and most free you can feel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

[Randall]

Get on the budget. Pray. Pray for God's wisdom. And, you know, honestly, get. Get people in your corner. So, like, we had family and friends. Get them in your corner and. And really follow the plan and just stick to it. I mean, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't make up your own plan.

[Randall]

That's right. Use your plan. And that's. That's how we did it.

[Dave Ramsey]

We.

[Randall]

You know, I'm the nerd, obviously, in the family.

[Dave Ramsey]

And.

[Randall]

And in addition to every dollar, we also had spreadsheets that I'm like, okay, if I do this, then I know I can cut off this amount of debt, and it's going to take. Instead of three years now, it's going to take 25 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Randall]

So. But just stick to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's amazing how math for us nerds can. Can translate to hope.

[Randall]

Agreed.

[Renee]

But there were so many times, you know, where I would prop up, you know, being like, well, if we did this, it'd be better. And he'd be like, nope, Dave says we need to do this, so we're gonna stick to the snowball regardless of what the interest rate is on this or that. And we just plugged at it, and it was pretty crazy. When we start writing those big checks to pay the bigger ones, when you get to the end, it's like, oh, this is crazy.

[Randall]

I wake up, like, at three in the morning sometimes, and I check my bank account, see if the check cleared to the last credit card.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no more of that.

[Renee]

Dave, a funny story that Jamie did. He likes candy, and I kid you not, one day he's gonna kill me for telling this. But it's so funny. I promised a friend I would tell it that he was so desperate to have some candy, he scrounged through his car to round up change so he could go to the Dollar Tree.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've been there, brother. I've been there.

[Renee]

And buy him some lemon heads.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've been there.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. It's Jamie and Kimberly. Greenville, South Carolina. 207,000 paid off in 25 months, making 186 to 252. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Randall]

Come on in, baby. Three, two, one.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're debt free. That's how it's done, ladies and gentlemen. Boom.

[Theon]

Hey, guys, what's up? It's Jade Warshaw. And look, if there's anybody who knows about student loan debt, it's me. My husband and I had 280, $80,000 of it, but we were able to dig ourselves out and you can too. If your student loan payment and interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be the solution. Now, I recommend contacting my friends at Laurel Road today through their online application. You can get an initial rate quote in less than five minutes. And if you have a more complex situation, you can schedule 30 minutes to talk to an actual human being. Thank goodness Laurel Road makes it simple. There are no fees involved and you could save thousands over the life of your loan. Remember, you should only refinance if it makes sense in your situation. So if you're looking for a low rate or a shorter term so that you can pay off these student loans fast, talk to my friends at Laurel Road about their competitive interest rates and how you could actually get a lower rate by signing up for autopay. Listen, nobody's coming to save you from your student loan debt. If you want it gone, you can't mess around. Go to LaurelRoad.com Ramsey to find out more about student loan refinancing. Again, that's LaurelRoad.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Caleb is in Tallahassee. Hey Caleb, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jenny]

Dave, thank you so much and thank you both. Thank you both for being a Christ centered image of, you know, how our finances can look, you know, young or old, no matter where you're at. Dave, I did want to say go Vols. As well as a recent graduate from the University of Tennessee.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow. Very cool. What's your degree in?

[Jenny]

I have a degree in agriculture. It took about 10 years. My father passed away when I was 19 years old. My only financial provider kind of got fed to the wolves early. I was playing college ball in North Carolina and had to give it all up. So Lord, Lord came through later in life to be able to provide the finances to get that done, even though I have a little bit of student loan debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how can we help today, brother?

[Jenny]

Absolutely. So currently now 30 years old, I've had two professional careers in my life. One as a professional hunting guide and one as a real estate agent. Currently still a real estate agent. The past three years I opened a branch office of my brokerage in the next county. I have now been offered keys to the kingdom to buy everything that I built over here in this county. I now have my broker's license. I'm looking to transition to the active broker. We manage about 65 rentals. So we have a pretty good rental portfolio. Brings in about $6,500 a month after we pay our bills, you know, for the office that we rent, my property manager and just basic utilities, we bring in about $1,000 in profit a month. But the lights are on and it really helps with the sales portion of the real estate company as well. Would you purchase this business? Would you not? And how would you do it? I will give you a quick background on myself as far as financially debt wise. I have no credit card debt. I still drive a 2006 Duramax that's been paid off since I bought it. Only have about $200,000 in total debt with my home. And then I have again about $25,000 in student loan debt from the University of Tennessee.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what are you, what are you making as a real estate agent? How much do you make?

[Jenny]

So for the past four years in a row, I have gone from 90,000 to 125,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that kind of fluctuate taxable income, correct?

[Jenny]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And that's after splitting with your broker?

[Jenny]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what's your split?

[Jenny]

80, 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how many agents work in this office?

[Jenny]

I have five agents that work in my branch office that will be transitioning over if I purchase the company as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do they make? The branch?

[Jenny]

One is relatively new, the other three, I would say gross commission. They probably bring in an extra 30 or 40. And I'm kind of the breadwinner here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so this business makes $50,000 a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Year.

[Dave Ramsey]

The rental, the rental portfolio makes 12. Makes 12. And these guys and these guys make 30,000. So that's 42, 40 to $50,000 a year. Right. Because what you make, you could go make somewhere else.

[Jenny]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that doesn't enter into the equation.

[Jenny]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well mean, you're not going to buy the business based on what you produce for the business. That would be dumb.

[Jenny]

You are correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jenny]

You are correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so what is he, what's the current owner offering to sell it for?

[Jenny]

So he's offered several different terms, 75,000 is what he is valuing the business at. So it can be a seller finance route, or it could be whatever route that I find that could be feasible. My goal to him was if I did any sort of financing that I would pray I could have it done in two years, three years at the absolute max.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can you guys help me? I don't know what you're buying.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's buying. He's buying an income stream that. A business that is creating an income of $40,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But this comes with people.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, the people make the money, and the. And the rental portfolio that they manage makes money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

A little bit. Not much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I mean, if you buy this for $75,000 and then two of these realtors quit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's true of business, though.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's true. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, if you. If you buy a factory and all the workers quit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you still bought the factory. But I.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, but they still. I don't have the income.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's. That's.

[Jenny]

And there's a few. Yeah, there's a few items that I could probably go away with to increase our rental income with that property management portfolio as well, to generate anywhere from 15 to $2,000 a month of income from there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's what. Here's what I would do. I would offer him $60,000, and I'm gonna pay you 100% of the profit of the business until we get to 60,000.

[Jenny]

Okay. 100% of the profit, not counting you. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You take your money and go home and eat with that during this year. And during that year, you get these salespeople's button gear, and you tighten up this rental property management thing. That sounds like it's pretty loose. Your margins suck on that. I think you can tighten that up a little bit. And you're paying out way too much. I mean, all this trouble, you go to 65 rentals for 1,000 bucks, I'd shoot myself. That's 65 tenants you got to screw with for $1,000.

[Jenny]

Yeah. Of profit. Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jenny]

Property manager takes care of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I know. I know. Property manager takes care of what property managers take care of, which means you have to take care of the property manager, so. No, you're not. Your margins suck. Dude, I'm in the business, okay? So, anyway, that's not the end of the world. I think you can tighten this thing up, raise your sales on your team, hire some more people into the team to continue to sell. Hopefully this real estate market continues its healing process. And you tighten up the operations side on the rent, and you can pay this guy in one year.

[Jenny]

I like it. I like it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And just tell you I am not going. Our terms are you get 100% of the profits until we get to 60,000. It looks like that's going to be around a year. That's our terms. And if there's no profit because of whatever thing we want to make up that's a calamity or a catastrophe, then you don't know anything until you get to 60,000. He gets all the profits.

[Jenny]

Understood.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so, yeah, I teach people in entree leadership to do that plan all the time. It's not debt because you don't. You're not in. You know, the bank will put you out of business if you don't pay the payments. This, you got no payment if there's no profit.

[Jenny]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you knock it out really, really, really fast. I'm not giving them a lot of value here. A normal business, I would give it more value on this cash flow. But I'm with John. You can go down the street and open up. Tom, most of those agents would go with you. And you probably. If you didn't keep the 65 rental properties, it probably isn't the end of the world because it's not really doing that much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, the time you spent on those, you could get one more sale of a house over the course of a year and get more commission than $6,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. This is a time drain for 12 grand. So a lot of calories burned. And I know you think the property manager is doing it all, but they never do everything. Okay. There's always someone has to lead the manager, and that's you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I almost wonder if you fire the. The property manager and you hire your own person and say, I'll pay you 100 grand to run these 65 houses.

[Dave Ramsey]

Property manager now works for him. He's being paid out of that 6,500amonth. And that got him down to $1,000 a month. And that's part of it. So, yeah, you don't have 100 grand in profit to pay a property manager.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dave, in this scenario, who owns all those 65 houses?

[Dave Ramsey]

Individuals like you. A person went to a real estate company and asked them to manage it for them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Gotcha. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they're the management company.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what they're doing. They're just collecting the rents. They're probably getting 10 of the rentals, but they got 100 of the hassle.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

For.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

For a thousand, I would have thought, I mean, as a guy that doesn't have real estate portfolio, I would have thought having 65 homes that you're taking care of was way more than. I mean, 65. Yeah. 6,500 real. I just would have thought you were making way more on those houses.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Wow. Okay, folks, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and wondering where your money's going, our team is hosting a free budget training this month. You'll learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget using EveryDollar, the world's best and most robust budgeting app. Plus, you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live. Q and A spots are limited. Sign up for free at everydollar.com webinar these webinars are excellent. If you really want to get control, you really want the money to behave. By the way that I mentioned, it's freaking free. Okay, shut up. It's free. Go watch the webinar and get yourself together. Sign up for free at everydollar.com webinar free budget trainings all this month. Good stuff. All right, John, off air, let me give you a full lesson on property management.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can't wait.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just kidding. I can't. Wouldn't do that to my best friend.

[Randall]

Friend.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the Ramsay Show.

[Renee]

There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting. But you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure you work with a mortgage partner.

[Renee]

You can rely on Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership. Wisely, Churchill understands that when you buy.

[Dave Ramsey]

A home the Ramsey way, your mortgage.

[Renee]

Payment will be a consistent, manageable part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of your monthly budget.

[Renee]

Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now it's extra money in your pocket.

[Renee]

And an asset towards turning you into.

[Dave Ramsey]

A Baby Steps millionaire.

[Renee]

Get started on the American dream of home ownership [e-mail] that's Churchillmortgage.com.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, PhD in counseling, number one best selling author. He's my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ryan is in Seattle. Hey, Ryan. What's up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Up.

[Jenny]

Hey, how you doing? Thank you guys for taking my call. I appreciate that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Jenny]

Well, I. I'm in a bit of a jam. I don't know how to get out of it. About three years ago, I had some parental issues that came up with my folks, and I got injured at work for about a year and a half. So I was on workers comp payments, but I got myself into about $97,000 of credit card debt. I have a $32,000 personal loan. I have a $34,000 car loan and $18,000 in student debt. Everything's up to about $181,000 in debt. And I, you know, my mortgage is at $767,000. I just don't know how to get out of it. I can't get it. I can't get a loan to consolidate because.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't matter. You can't borrow your way out of debt.

[Jenny]

Well, I was hoping to consolidate that.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's mathematically impossible to borrow your way out of, Deb. That. Okay. So what do you make?

[Jenny]

My base is about 140,000 a year on a. With my overtime, I make about 180 to 220.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're single?

[Jenny]

I have a. I have a stepson and a. A girlfriend that lives with me.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have a stepson if you're not married.

[Jenny]

Well, she. He's living with me, and she's living with.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, your girlfriend's kid and your girlfriend live with you?

[Jenny]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Just making sure I understand what's going on. All right. The end. Does she work?

[Jenny]

She does.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what does she make?

[Jenny]

She makes about 60, 70,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she can support herself.

[Jenny]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm talking to a single guy who makes 180 grand and owes 180 grand?

[Jenny]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What was the nature of your injury at work?

[Jenny]

I broke my foot. So I was out for about a year and a half with two different surgeries. And then before that, my parents. I thought the property that I bought was about 811,000 that I financed. The parents were gonna live with me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you have a property? Do you have a property now?

[Jenny]

I do, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, what's it worth?

[Jenny]

1.1.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you owe on it?

[Jenny]

767.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sell it and get out of debt that.

[Jenny]

Yeah, I can't. I credit. My credit's too low.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have to have credit to sell a Property.

[Jenny]

But you have to have credit to buy a property, right? I wouldn't qualify for anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care. Go rent.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, rent for a while, man.

[Jenny]

The. But the amount of money that I would have to pay off them and then all the money I have to move and the cost of the moving expenses. How would I. How would I get all that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Honey, 1.1 minus 700 minus 180 gives you some moving money and you make.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

200 grand a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dude, you spend like you're in Congress and you rationalize like you're in Congress.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's the thing I don't like. I hear the desperation in your voice, but also you're. You're pushing back on every single thing we put out there. What's the. What's the deeper issue?

[Dave Ramsey]

The other option is this. Live on beans and rice and pay $140,000 a year onto this debt. And you are debt free in a year and a half. And you have absolutely no freaking life. You've been living like you make twice what you make and walking around strutting around like. You act like it's okay. It ain't okay. It's stupid.

[Jenny]

Part of that is because I was on workers comp and I didn't. I didn't have my full income coming in from.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but you, you make 180,000 freaking dollars dollars. I just go live like. Go live like a normal person and pay this debt off and sell the year and a half.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Sell your car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sell your stupid butt car. And if you're not willing to do all that, you want to get out really fast, Sell your stupid house. It's just a stupid house. Get you another one later when you get your act together. But you don't want any pain. You don't want anything to change. You don't want to sacrifice.

[Jenny]

I'm paying for like all my. All my money that I'm getting. Every single dollar I'm getting, I'm putting straight towards credit cards. I just, I just started list into your book and I've already paid off two credit cards. I got one more that I'm paying. How much is that next paycheck?

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you pay off?

[Jenny]

The last one I just paid off was 2047, 2470.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was the other one?

[Jenny]

I just. I paid half of a payload PayPal credit card. I'm going to pay the other half this week.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much?

[Jenny]

$1,003.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you paid off $3,000 in what period of time?

[Jenny]

In the last four weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Four weeks. Okay. In one month. So if we annualize that, that's $36,000 out of 180. It's not exactly stepping, dude.

[Jenny]

Yeah, yeah, but I also have a personal loan that I'm paying $870 on. I can't sell my credit card, I can't sell my car because I'll be upside down on $14,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you get to hurting enough, Ryan, you're going to figure this out. But you're not hurting enough yet, okay? We just told you four things you could do and none of them suit you. So I can't sell my car, I can't sell my house. I can't do this, I can't do that. Dude, you can. You can do all that. And when you decide you want to get out of this, and here's how.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We know, because both Dave and I have done it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's very possible. Dude, you make a ton of money. You have this huge million dollar freaking house. You own a million dollar house, man. I mean, really? So people listening across America are going, I got no mercy for the stuff, dude. Dave's being light on him and I feel like I'm coming down on you. But seriously, dude, I want you to be free, but I want you to be free more than you want to be free right this second because you're not willing to cut loose some stuff to get free. So cut loose the car, cut loose the lifestyle, cut loose the not stepson and his mother and cut loose some stuff and get your life back. Because you've given your life away. And the way you get it back is you're going to have to give up some stuff. Stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You mentioned this a few times. You're. You broke your foot and you were out for a year from work and like, it's as though the world of math and the world of reality and the world of debt and the world of repayment and slavery, none of that should apply for a while because you had an injury. And the crummy thing is, is the world keeps moving, right? It just keeps going on. And so I hate that for you. And now you're back and it stinks like, hey, man, now that I got this big fancy job and I've been out for a year on benefits, I hated that. I want to spend, like, I'm catching up. You can't. You got a huge hole you got to get yourself out of, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you start applying eight to $10,000 a month to this debt, not $3,000 a month, including making your payments, you're going to see it magically start to go away. If you're not willing to cut your life that deeply, then you need to stop your 401k at work. You need to make sure your withholding is correct. You need to quit investing and quit saving. Take any money that's in savings and throw it at this debt. If you're not willing to do all that, a quick fix is to sell the stupid house. Both of those things will work, and, yes, the car needs to be sold. You're a broke guy driving a $40,000 car, and so, you know, figure out a way to come up with a difference and get the thing sold. Of course you're upside down. I mean, that's just in the line of other things that you did. I've done dumber things than you've done, honey. But there comes a point you wake up and you go, I've got to sacrifice to be winning. And it's going to hurt. Getting well is going to hurt, yes, but not getting well is going to hurt more.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got to make a decision. The faster you cut into this, the deeper you cut into this, the faster you're going to get out. That's the formula, and that's what we could see immediately. And because we're not emotionally attached to all these. These decisions, good luck with it, brother. I hope you make the turn. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase, like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other Type of insurance. Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you [e-mail] insurance. Andrew's in San Jose. Andrew, how are you? I'm good. All right.

[Jenny]

Dave. John, thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure, man. What's up?

[Jenny]

So I was wondering what you thought. I'd like to take out $75,000 in student loan to get a bachelor's in construction management. But there's one caveat, which is that because I am a DACA recipient, I am not qualified for a majority of scholarships that are out there or any kind of federal assistance.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Please don't do this, Andrew. Please, please, please don't do this.

[Jenny]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. Help me, John. What's a daca?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a long story, but he is not a naturalized citizen. But he's lived here his whole life, and so he's a recipient. He can go to college, go to US College, but doesn't qualify for a lot of the aid packages that are reserved for citizens only.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay, Now I'm catching.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you want to go into construction management.

[Erica]

Yeah.

[Jenny]

So there's a trade school here locally that also has an online college.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Jenny]

I basically do an electrician degree.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep.

[Jenny]

And then that turns into a bachelor's in construction management.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So hear me say this. I want you to go learn how to be an electrician, and I want you to learn construction science. I desperately want that, because you're going to be one of the most in demand people in the next 5 to 10 to 25 to 50 years. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a wonderful career field.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I do not want you to get $75,000 in the hole. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do now?

[Jenny]

Currently, I'm a graphic designer for a sign company.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so what made you pick construction?

[Jenny]

So, I mean, I'm 29, and for the longest time, I didn't know what I wanted to do. And then I went on a tour of this trade school and the courses that they have available, and it just clicked. Like, it just. It seems like something that it's with my hands, but it requires math and, you know, technical skill, which is something that I gravitate towards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jenny]

And obviously, because I have a son and a wife, it's got to make money, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you gone down and check out the local community college in your area that probably offers the exact same program for nothing?

[Jenny]

There's a JC in my area that. That gives me the certificate for electrician, but I'd have To go to further out like a two hour city to do it turn to make it into anything that's higher education.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here's 100% of the time you do not need a degree to be in Construction Management. 100% chance. What you do need is the skills to be there. One way to get the skills is to go study it the way you're talking about studying it. Another way is be doing it on the job and learn. That's how most people in construction learn construction management. They do construction, not graphic arts. So go get a job in the construction field, dude.

[Jenny]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Work your way. Get in with an electrician. That'll put you in apprentice program, get.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your free certification there, get to get.

[Dave Ramsey]

In an apprentice program, become an electrician and then move from there and start working with the GCs in the area and take on some project manager roles on some small basic stuff and let them teach you construction management. Construction management is not rocket science, okay? It's logistics and math. What you found when you were doing that, what you ran into was a trade school that had a really good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Salesman and a shiny, shiny shop.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it made it look like this was gonna be a thing. But listen, it's project management. And just in talking to you, I think you could do it almost. Now you're bright, okay? You're a smart guy. Except for this part about biting on the $75,000 hook. I think you got a little lip, little thing stuck in your lip right there. It's a hook. And so, but yeah, but no, dude, really, go get in the construction business. I grew up in the real estate and construction business. I love it and I think it's something that AI can't touch. So you're not going to get replaced by a stupid computer. And I chat GTPT can't spell construction management.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I promise you in 10 years they're not going to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I know you can wire up this entire project, but we need to see that certification. No one's going to have time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you can get, you can run through an apprentice program and become a certified electrician, but you do not need a construction management degree. I'm sitting in a building that costs $60 million to be. This portion of this building goes $60 million. The guy that built this building working for a commercial construction company did not have a construction management degree.

[Jenny]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I'm saying, okay? What he did was he swung a hammer, he dug ditches and he wired stuff and he did whatever and he learned project Management and you can take some project management courses. And there's some basic things to learn about that that everybody ought to know for that matter, because everything's a freaking project. Running a wedding is a project management thing. So I mean, whatever it is, right? So you know, there's nothing, nothing bad about that. But you pick that up at the community college. Don't be hunting certifications as a silver bullet to make your life successful. Go look for skills, skills that you can put literally in this case and figuratively in your tool belt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can we, can I want to double click on that because I think that might be one of the more, more profound shifts that's coming our way and that is we have been told for a hundred years to go get certified, go have somebody else stamp you. Whether it's an outside credential, whether it's an outside. And colleges have responded to this by coming up with credentials on any number of things that have never been credentialed. Left handed puppetry, everything is credentialed, right? So I'm a certified left handed puppet, whatever. So here's the deal. In the future that we are entering into right now, now people are going to ask, can you do this thing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So don't go get certified in how to sit with hurting people. Go figure out ways to sit with hurting people. Don't get certified in how to fill in the blank. Go learn how to do that thing. Because that's going to be the new currency because their certification stuff is going to get winnowed out with the Internets, with the computers. I'm convinced of that, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean we've already seen, we've already seen the beginning. Number one, the trades have never done that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Number two, the new version of the trade called tech. You know, I got tech, we got 460 tech people working here. The number of them that have four year degrees in information systems is almost zero.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But a number of them have lots of certs and have gone to classes and know how to code, gone to code school. They learn the skills, they have to learn the skill. They learn the skills. And I don't care what their certification is.

[Jenny]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What I care is can you code correct? Can you build the platform for the code to sit on? Can you create a customer interface? How fast can you do this at a dev1, dev2 or dev3 level? You know, are you, are you really quick or are you just slower in Christmas? I mean, what is this is what I, I'm the employer, I'm the guy writing the Check. And so I'm telling you, you don't have to have a cert.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I have a degree in salesmanship. I don't care. Can you sell something? That's what's going to matter.

[Dave Ramsey]

The only thing that means is you got sold. Doesn't mean you ever sold anything. So, yeah, that's the chase, the essence.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of this Andrew Chase skills.

[Dave Ramsey]

And this is coming from John, who has a PhD in higher education.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I used to tell like, don't get a PhD in leadership. Go lead something. Go ask for increased leadership responsibility so that you can get moved up the ladder in these areas and increase your influence because you know how to do the thing. Not because you can wave a certificate around, say, look, somebody else says, I can do this thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I had a fun discussion with Jim Collins at Entree Leadership Summit last week. We were talking maybe on stage in the interview, but certainly offstage. We talked about it too. I remember he told me the story. He was teaching entrepreneurship at Stanford and a guy kept saying, yeah, but are you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's a great critique. It's a great critique.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what caused him to leave and go open his own for practice, for profit research firm that led to the book Built to Last. Good to Great, Great Great by choice. How the Mighty Fall. All these masterful works that are based on his masterful research that he did for profit because he decided if I'm going to teach entrepreneurship, I probably ought to be one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, I find it no small coincidence that the most of the teachers that I had that were of high influence for me professors were either theologians that also led small churches at the same time, or they were. Were mental health professors that also had practices or working in the communities doing, doing the thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because they got to tie the practice into that knowledge and then you get a much better. The passion jumps into the students. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who was it taught me to go into debt? My finance professor who was broke. He was broke. What's wrong with a broke finance professor? That's like a shop teacher with missing fingers. I mean, come on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You ain't one, right. You ain't one until you is one. Right? Oh my gosh. This is how this works. So yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Chase skills.

[Dave Ramsey]

I believe in education being dumb is not a plan.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I do. I believe in going to college.

[Dave Ramsey]

I believe in gathering up knowledge. But your, the, the, the silver bullet is your gathering of knowledge and the application of it in the marketplace, not the piece of paper that said you did it. If all you do is collect degrees, you're A thermometer.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

As moms, we have enough stuff that we're juggling without pacing through a.

[Renee]

Huge grocery store for hours and paying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Premiums for name brands.

[Renee]

That's why you need to try Aldi. Aldi makes shopping for groceries more affordable, saving your family nearly $4,000 a year and way easier. They take the guesswork out of shopping with better choices like their exclusive Aldi brands, so you can save money and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Time and focus on what really matters.

[Renee]

So stop paying more and start shopping.

[Dave Ramsey]

Smarter at Aldi, where you'll save with the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you today at Aldi US.

[Renee]

That's a L D. I dot US.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, what's up? Dr. John DeLoney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th and early bird prices start at 749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets [e-mail] events.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we love folks joining us in the lobby at Ramsey Solutions. We love them joining us on the debt free scream stage. And we really love it when they're one of our own team members. That's like super fun. Except for the part where. Where 900 members of Ramsey stand in the lobby not working to cheer them on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave's like, we'll all get back to work. What's wrong with you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The per hour cost in the contract, it's awful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. All right, so Randall and Renee are with us. Randall is a senior product designer here on the Ramsey real estate trusted team. Ramsey trusted real estate team. Been here about four years, right?

[Randall]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So very cool. All right, so we're not going to ask your incomes like we traditionally do because all your peers are standing around. That would be unfair. But, Renee, what do you do?

[Theon]

I'm a homeschool mom and I also tutor for our classical conversations to co op.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, very cool. Very cool. All right, good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Together y' all make a million dollars a year.

[Theon]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Theon]

Got it done in no time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. No time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. John, if I said that, that would be called a promise.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I'm not saying that.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so how much did you guys pay off?

[Randall]

So $118,155. 80.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. How long did this take, guys?

[Randall]

Five years and one month.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. Very cool. All right. And you've been here four years?

[Randall]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you started on this journey and didn't come to work here. How weird is that?

[Randall]

It was a little bit weird, especially when it was at the beginning of 2021, you were putting out the call for creatives to apply on the radio, and she's like, you have to apply right now. And I was like, okay, hang on. Let's think about that for a second. But then I warmed up to the idea, applied, made it through the extensive.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did y' all move from somewhere to.

[Randall]

Come here for the job for Minnesota?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Randall]

At the tail end of the. All the COVID stuff?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. We're out of here. All right, cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. And four years later, you've been sitting in this environment paying off 118,000. What kind of debt was it?

[Randall]

So a mixture of mostly student loans. So like 96,000 student loans. Loans, a couple of credit cards, personal loan, car loans, all the normal things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How long y' all been married?

[Randall]

22 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Wow. So what happened in the year before you came to work here five years ago that started you on this whole journey? Getting out of debt.

[Theon]

So in 2019, at the end of the year, we started receiving letters for collections for student loans. We were $10,000 behind on payments.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Theon]

And I got the letter, and I didn't tell him. I hid the letter because he had a lot of anxiety and depression and just really struggling mentally with the debt. And then January, we got another letter, and I realized it's not going to go away, so I have to tell him. And I did. And then within a couple of weeks. Weeks, we went to church. And a very sweet couple, Matt and Krista Hammond, got up and did a testimonial about paying off 100. I think 30,000 in debt or 180,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds like us.

[Theon]

Yeah, yeah. And. But they did it in three years. And I looked at Randall and I said, we have to take FPU. And so our class was supposed to start March 2020.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, of course. Yes. And we got so many things that didn't start in March of 2020.

[Theon]

And we got one in person class. And then from then on, we did it over zoom. And it pretty much took one class. And I was obsessed and just, like, got on board, started listening to the show every single day, three hours, four hours a day. I was listening to all the back episodes and I was like, we are doing this. We're Gazelle Intense. It took him a little bit longer to.

[Randall]

Yeah, it was another, like, six months for me before I started seeing the pin prick of light at the end of the tunnel. I was in a really dark place before all that. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And then somewhere around that six month mark, you hear me on the radio, go, we're hiring creatives. And she went, yeah, yeah, load up the truck. We're headed to Beverly, baby.

[Theon]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Wow. Very cool.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You didn't have any facial hair when you started this journey, did you?

[Randall]

I did. I actually have. I started that in Minnesota. It was to keep my face warm because it was brutal up there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, fair enough. All right, so what is it, like, tell the truth, to work with people at Ramsey while you're trying to do this?

[Randall]

I can't imagine a better environment to try to accomplish this than working here. Like, it's the weirdest thing when you're like, literally everybody talks about their finances. I've got so much debt. And it's, you know, we're working on. It's. We're paying it off.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's fine.

[Randall]

And, like, everybody's just really open about it and super supportive and like, everybody, every time you're like, oh, I had to, you know, this. This setback and like, well, just get back on the horse and, like, you're going to nail it. And, you know, it's so. It's so rewarding just from that standpoint that, like, literally everyone's behind you. Like, every month we have the walk the talk thing with Jay getting up on stage and, like, you're just motivated, like, all the time to make sure that you're. You're getting there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Wow. Well, they are all out here to cheer for you. I was making fun of him, but I'm proud of him for cheering for you because you did it. I'm proud of y' all.

[Theon]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who was cheering you on, other than work compadres?

[Theon]

Randall's parents. They were probably our biggest cheerleaders, our biggest support. They helped us a lot, so we couldn't have done it without them. They're here with us today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good.

[Theon]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

They came all the way down to. Are you from Minnesota?

[Theon]

No, they're from Destin, Florida.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. Came up. Okay.

[Theon]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that'll work to.

[Theon]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, cool.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell us about these two boys over here.

[Theon]

Theon is 15 and Elias is almost 12.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can see that y' all definitely held back on haircuts. While.

[Theon]

A lot of scissors at home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sound like an old redneck, I call.

[Randall]

Him a hippie all the time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It looks great. Hey, I'm jealous, man. I can't. I can't grow my hair like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't make hair jokes. It's a rule.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what was the hardest part about telling your boys no?

[Theon]

Oh, just we had to take them out of taekwondo. We, you know, they couldn't go to church camps. They couldn't. We couldn't go to amusement parks, which we are from Florida, so we went to amusement parks a lot back in the day. Couldn't go to state fairs and county fairs. And so for that, that was the hardest part, not getting to go out to eat. We went. Part of our getting out of debt celebration was going out to eat. And that was like.

[Dave Ramsey]

So they're celebrating big time.

[Theon]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

They have a life now.

[Theon]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. They're both shoes now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Finally, mom and dad paid a price to get them here. Way to go, y' all. Way to go. I'm proud of you. Good, good work. Very, very cool. All right, now the question we ask everybody, what's the key to getting out of debt? You paid off 118,000. You stuck with it for five long years to do it, and now you're free.

[Theon]

I would say work. It's not gonna happen if you have a tiny shovel and you're just gonna sit back and expect it to happen. Like you said, you. You don't fall into debt. So for me, the first couple years, I did everything. I did shipt, I did instacart, I did doordash, I did Etsy shop, I did online evaluations, I did everything I could. And then 2021, 2022, I had a neck injury, had to get two neck surgeries, and I couldn't work for two years. And so that's why it ended up taking us longer than we expected. And once, once I got through all of the recovery on that and I could actually work again, I said, I'm done. At beginning of 2024, I said, I'm sick of this. We're going to get done. I got a full time job as an online pickup clerk at Kroger High pickup team, and I tutored for homeschool co op, and I homeschooled. So it was just like, work, work, work constantly. And it was less than a year later, we got out of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

So way to go.

[Randall]

I would also add to that, to everybody listening, don't wait to start. Like, I was in, like a hopeless place. But after we started, like, there's. There's so much more hope on the other side of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it does start with a pin prick of light, and then it gets larger and larger.

[Theon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it starts to be just a real light at the end of the tunnel. That's not a train. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I heard this recently. That, that thing you just said, when you're in a hopeless place, place with no hope, that remembering hope is an action. It's that first step. So start the class right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was the church you were going to in Minnesota?

[Theon]

Crossroads in Hastings, Minnesota.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, cool. Very cool. Hats off to those guys for offering the financial Peace University class. Thank you. Well done. All right, Randall and Renee. All right, get the guys up here. We want to see them on camera. They get to scream because they too are free now. And good stuff. Very good. I like it. I like it. Good. All right, Randall and Renee, Theron and Elias, our own team right here. 118,000 paid off in five years. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Randall]

Three, two, one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Love.

[Randall]

Love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man. That's powerful. Way to go, you guys. Proud of you. Proud to have you on this team. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, folks, how would winning $5,000 in cash change your life? This month we're giving $5,000 to one grand prize winner and we're giving away a $500 prize every week in May. It takes less than 15 seconds to enter. No purchase is necessary, and you can enter daily to increase your chances of winning. Enter the rams giveaway until May [e-mail] giveaway. That's ramseysolutions.com giveaway. Big news. There's another chance to get away with your spouse at the money and marriage getaway. It is back for Valentine's Day weekend. Goes on sale today. You can spend three incredible days in Nashville with Dr. John DeLoney Rachel Cruz, learning the tools to strengthen your connection, deepen your intimacy, and more. Again, Dr. John DeLoney Rachel Cruz. 2-12-14 goes on sale today. Early bird pricing right now. Tickets start at only $7.49 a couple. You can get your tickets for the lowest prices before they [e-mail] getaway or click the link in the show notes. And also there's a money and marriage getaway still available in November. November 6th through 8th. It is almost sold out. So we put the February date, the Valentine's Day date, on sale today. Our question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? Some lenders won't touch defaulted private student loans. But why Refi was built for this exact problem. They'll explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate custom built deal. For your situation, visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be available in all states.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh boy. Buckle up. I just read through this question, Dave. This is the part of the show after 30 years where we get cancer canceled. Today's question comes from Jeff in California. Our dog has had some hefty vet bills recently. Oh boy. It's got my wife and me wondering what is the maximum amount we should spend to save his life. We're baby step seven. We make 127k a year. But could use some help on how to think through if this, if we have to make this tough decision.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, Dave, I have a dog that I like more than most of you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Me too. I have two of them. I have a third dog that I can't stand dumber in a box of hair, but I love the other two.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I've had 11 or 12 dogs in my life and they are the favorite things I've ever had. I just love dogs. My dog, I've got a little Havanese bear dog. It's £12. Well, legend has it that dog will protect you from bears. And I think legend is true because I've not seen, seen a single bear since I got it. So there you go. So we go for a walk. We did five miles on the golf course this morning at 5am and the dog is trained to come sit. It's beautiful. It's a wonderful dog. And I truly prefer this dog to most people. Yes, I really do. It is, however, a dog. It's not my grandchild. If you ask this question about my grandchild, how much would I spend? Spend all the money I've got.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

All the money I've got and then some. Okay. This is an animal that I love dearly, but it is an animal. And I will tell you, being the old guy here whose wife grew up on a farm and therefore you eat Bessie that you bottle fed six months ago and then you shoot Bessie and you eat her. So there you go. She's got no attachment to these things. It's a dog. It doesn't even care that I like the dog. So you got to. She keeps a perspective on this thing. But what we've observed with people that love their animals like we do is that it becomes about us instead of the dog.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we spend $8,000 to keep the dog alive while the dog is suffering, and it's not fair to the dog.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Amen.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what usually happens around this kind of question. And I could fall prey to that, too. I just explained this to you. I mean, I'm about to cry just talking about it, but. No, seriously. Yeah, man. I've put them down. I mean, we've had them send them to heaven, but, I mean, we had one that when the kids were little, they got spinal bifida. So at eight months old, the dog can't walk. And the vet says, 2,500 bucks, we can do a back surgery, and the dog probably will still not walk, and it will be in pain. And I'm like, so why are we. The 2,500 bucks isn't the point. The point is, what are we doing to this dog? And why is this. What's this for? This is for the children. To make our children watch a dog suffer. Well, that's dumb. And so you just kind of have to get past this thing of we don't get to play God and keep them alive. They have a lifespan of 10, 12 years maybe, or whatever they live. So we outlive 10 or 12 of them. If you live to be 70 years old. Old. And so you kind of got to get that built into the system here and not put the poor animal through suffering because you're a big baby and you can't cry. But I've sat there and cried. Sobbed while we. While the vet puts one of them down. And. But that requires more courage than prolonging the dog's life and letting it suffer. It's honoring that if we can actually fix the animal. Well, sure, we would spend some money on it, and that would be the percentage of money you spend on that would be. You know, if you have some money. Do I go $14,000 in debt to put new hips into a Labrador retriever? No, you do not. If you don't have the $14,000, you're going into debt to do it. No. And you're not buying a $14,000 car either, with debt. I'm not going to tell you to do that either. It's a dollar. And so. Oh, that's your unkind. Oh, well, you know, just go ahead and whatever hate mail you want to add to the Ramsey file, just put it out there on Reddit or wherever it is you people do what you do have at it. But, you know, most of the time, this is about the person, not the dog.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I, I, here's what I think. And this is, this is going to make me sound equally on the other side, super soft. I think dogs are, are one of the greatest gifts to humankind. And I made a commitment to my dog, my very first dog I had of my own. I, I tell you this, probably the top 10 hardest I've ever sobbed in my life was in that, in that room, and I put that dog down. It takes me two seconds. I can get choked up on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the commitment I made as a new dog owner when I was 20 years old was I'm always going to do what's right by this dog, not what's right by me. And so what you mentioned, the dog got sick, and hey, we can do this. We can keep it going here, and we can do that. That's not the dog I had. The dog I had was a maniac. And love being out and love chasing stuff, and to steal that from that dog so that I don't have to have a really challenging, tough experience and weeks of grieving and all that you're gonna have anyway. I'm gonna have it anyway.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. It's just this dog is not gonna outlive.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's dishonoring. Unless something's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So I'm a big believer in honor that animal. And. Yeah. And they've gotten so sophisticated with vet medicine now. It's almost. They can do, like, the surgeries they do on people, they can do on these dogs now, so they can prop them up and prolong them and all that. It's just dishonoring to that animal.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get a puppy, just mark the calendar. You got 10 or 12 years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or eight, you know, or depending on the dog. Right. You know, and how screwed up their bloodline is, but. Yeah. How inbred they are. But the, you know, it's just that that's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They're an amazing gift, man. But they're.

[Dave Ramsey]

This dog I've got is two years old, and it's just now got its brain grown in. I mean, the dog did not have a brain. It was ridiculous. And now it's turned into the smartest animal, one of the smartest animals I've ever had. But I've worked that dadgum animal, man. It's unbelievable. And I love this dog, I'm telling you. But I'm already. I'm 64. I'm gonna outlive this dog. And I got to deal with that right now. Now, you know, when I'm sitting here talking about this. So it breaks my heart, Jeff. So number one rule is you don't go into. If you have to go into debt, it means you can't afford it. Number two rule is. And more important than number one is, is the dog suffering? And this is for you. And I gotta tell you, 90% of the questions I've taken on the air about this are that issue. That's where it boils down to. It becomes about the human rather than the dog. And it just requires great courage to bring an end to something. Something. And courage doesn't mean you don't cry. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And means you have the courage to cry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there's that, too. At length. So. So any of you. Now, this is not the George camel sell the horse show. If you want to add to that, you have to go to a different hate page to add to that one. Because George. George has all the horse people in America torn up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's the anti equine association. The George.

[Dave Ramsey]

George camel is the president, the charter president, Equine. We need a logo for that one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just a horse with a line through it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. George isn't even here to defend himself, but he will when he gets here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's fun. Hey, guys, this is fun. And it's this idea of, you know, what happens with money is it gets tangled up in all your values.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And emotions.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, and your emotions. And get used to that. It's in your relationships. It weaves into that and stuff like, you know, how long we let a dog die, how long we let a dog live, you know, and what's good for the puppy. So love your dog. Well, that's the point. Love them so well that you don't ask them to suffer for you. This is the Ramsay show. Hey, what are you still doing here? You know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey network app, right? So you got to jump over there to continue watching. You can download it for free. Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey network. It's completely free, and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It easy for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you.

[Randall]

So jump onto the app and let the fun continue. All right, Go on now. Don't make it weird. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got nowhere to go, so you need to go.

[Randall]

Okay, bye bye now.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, this is getting weird over there. Guys, what do we do?