The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show Episode: The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
Release Date: December 25, 2024
Host: Jade Warshaw & Dr. John DeLoney
Description: In this episode of The Ramsey Show, Jade Warshaw and Dr. John DeLoney delve into the intricate interplay between financial decisions and relationship dynamics. Through real-life listener calls, they explore how money matters can create significant strain in personal relationships and offer practical advice to navigate these challenges effectively.

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1. Navigating Workplace Conflicts Affecting Marital Relationships

Caller: Jacob from Dallas
Timestamp: [00:29] – [08:28]

Discussion: Jacob shares his struggle with his wife’s difficult boss at her marketing job, which has led to tension in their marriage. He is uncertain about the appropriate boundaries between supporting his wife and intervening in her professional challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [02:49]: "Do you trust your wife and Jacob?"
• Dr. John DeLoney [04:16]: "What would it take for you guys to financially, for you, for her to be able to walk out the door?"

Advice Provided:

• Jade Warshaw: Emphasizes trusting his wife to handle professional issues without interference. Suggests that if her work environment is toxic, finding a new job might be the better route.
• Dr. John DeLoney: Encourages considering her ability to find another position and maintaining open communication to prevent negative spillover into their personal lives.

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2. Accepting Large Financial Gifts and Its Implications

Caller: Elizabeth from Santa Cruz, California
Timestamp: [09:23] – [19:15]

Discussion: Elizabeth contemplates accepting a $1 million gift from her in-laws to purchase a home in an expensive market like Santa Cruz. She is concerned about the financial and relational implications, especially regarding potential strings attached to the gift.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John DeLoney [12:19]: "It's a lot of money."
• Jade Warshaw [14:29]: "If your identity is, I don't do stuff like that, then I would tell you, maybe check that."

Advice Provided:

• Jade Warshaw: Advises ensuring there are no strings attached and clarifying the terms in writing to avoid future complications.
• Dr. John DeLoney: Recommends assessing the giver’s history of generosity and the emotional impact of receiving such a substantial gift. Suggests alternatives like partial acceptance to reduce overwhelm.

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3. Handling Unfulfilled Financial Agreements with Family

Caller: Sarah from San Francisco
Timestamp: [19:37] – [28:28]

Discussion: Sarah reveals that her mother failed to fulfill her part of a Parent PLUS loan agreement, leading to significant financial strain. She seeks guidance on how to address her mother’s unmet obligations without further damaging their relationship.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [22:30]: "She doesn't get to. You're allowing her to get inside you and to make you feel a certain way."
• Dr. John DeLoney [24:53]: "You are not on the hook for this money."

Advice Provided:

• Jade Warshaw: Encourages setting clear boundaries and taking control of the repayment process, such as making payments directly to the lender rather than through her mother.
• Dr. John DeLoney: Emphasizes that Sarah is not legally responsible for her mother’s debt and suggests negotiating a realistic repayment plan while maintaining emotional distance from her mother’s financial mismanagement.

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4. Recovering from Financial Ruin After an Abusive Relationship

Caller: Chris from Springfield, Missouri
Timestamp: [30:09] – [37:00]

Discussion: Chris, who overcame an abusive relationship, admits to impulsively spending $48,000 of his savings as a coping mechanism. He seeks advice on rebuilding his financial stability while addressing the emotional aftermath of his relationship.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [33:46]: "You have this idea of something you can do, but if you really stop to break through, break down your plan, everything has to be perfect."
• Dr. John DeLoney [35:54]: "Money does weird things to people, John."

Advice Provided:

• Jade Warshaw: Encourages Chris to seek counseling and take time to heal emotionally before re-establishing his financial plans. Recommends utilizing resources like Financial Peace University to regain financial control.
• Dr. John DeLoney: Supports the need for emotional healing and suggests practical steps like renegotiating debts and rebuilding savings with structured plans.

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5. Coping with Wedding Planning Conflicts Involving Parents

Caller: Dylan from Springfield, Missouri
Timestamp: [41:01] – [48:30]

Discussion: Dylan discusses his mother's refusal to attend his wedding rehearsal and rehearsal dinner after he altered original plans. The conflict centers around financial contributions and expectations from his mother, leading to emotional distress.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [42:45]: "She started inviting a bunch of people that we didn't want."
• Dr. John DeLoney [43:58]: "Money makes people act up though, like it does."

Advice Provided:

• Jade Warshaw: Suggests writing a heartfelt letter to his mother to express his feelings and clarify his wishes for the wedding day, emphasizing the importance of the event.
• Dr. John DeLoney: Recommends maintaining boundaries and not allowing his mother’s actions to dictate the proceedings, reinforcing that it's Dylan's special day.

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6. Overcoming Financial Setbacks Due to Natural Disasters

Caller: Lane from Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Timestamp: [51:12] – [57:47]

Discussion: Lane shares his experience of losing his home to a tornado and how his strong financial planning (emergency fund) helped him manage the crisis without significant financial ruin. He expresses gratitude towards The Ramsey Show for his financial resilience.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [52:19]: "Perspective."
• Dr. John DeLoney [55:40]: "This is a testament to not only it's not about the plan, it's about the plan plus the person."

Advice Provided:

• Jade Warshaw: Commends Lane’s preparedness and emphasizes the importance of having an emergency fund to handle unforeseen disasters.
• Dr. John DeLoney: Highlights the combination of having a solid financial plan and personal commitment to adhere to it as key factors in Lane’s recovery.

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7. Addressing Substance Abuse and Financial Struggles

Caller: Josh from Destin, Florida
Timestamp: [60:35] – [69:18]

Discussion: Josh seeks advice on covering the $6,000 gap not covered by his insurance for rehab to quit drinking. He has exhausted options like scholarships and is hesitant to incur more debt.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [63:56]: "This is you being super, super vulnerable."
• Dr. John DeLoney [67:07]: "They keep coming."

Advice Provided:

• Jade Warshaw: Encourages Josh to explore community resources, such as AA meetings, local ministries, and negotiating payment plans with rehab facilities. Suggests leveraging support networks to bridge the financial gap.
• Dr. John DeLoney: Recommends considering selling assets or finding temporary work to cover costs, emphasizing the importance of addressing substance abuse before financial issues compound the problem.

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8. Managing Divorce Amidst Financial Obligations

Caller: Wyatt from California
Timestamp: [71:38] – [79:18]

Discussion: Wyatt faces a complex situation where his wife requested a divorce but wants to remain married until she completes her MBA, which is being funded by his family's inheritance. He is concerned about the financial implications and their strained relationship.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [73:12]: "You don't get to go back."
• Dr. John DeLoney [75:03]: "Money fights are a symptom."

Advice Provided:

• Jade Warshaw: Advises Wyatt to stop tuition payments if the marriage has irreparably broken down and emphasizes the importance of setting clear financial boundaries during divorce proceedings.
• Dr. John DeLoney: Highlights the necessity of separating financial transactions from personal relationships during divorce and advises against involving in-laws to prevent further complications.

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9. Concluding Insights on Financial and Relationship Stability

Timestamp: [75:31] – [79:18]

Discussion: Jade Warshaw and Dr. John DeLoney reflect on the various calls, emphasizing that money issues often stem from deeper relational problems. They discuss the importance of intentionality in financial decisions and maintaining clear boundaries to foster healthy relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Jade Warshaw [78:56]: "You can choose something different together."
• Dr. John DeLoney [79:05]: "This is a boundaries conversation."

Key Takeaways:

• Intentionality: Being deliberate and clear in financial and relational decisions can prevent conflicts and misunderstandings.
• Boundaries: Setting and respecting boundaries is crucial in maintaining healthy relationships, especially when financial matters are involved.
• Support Systems: Leveraging community resources, professional advice, and support networks plays a vital role in overcoming financial and relational challenges.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Jade Warshaw and Dr. John DeLoney provide compassionate and practical advice to listeners facing intertwined financial and relationship dilemmas. From handling workplace conflicts and large financial gifts to overcoming financial setbacks after personal crises, the hosts emphasize the importance of clear communication, intentional decision-making, and leveraging support systems to navigate life's most challenging financial and relational decisions.

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Notable Quote Highlights:

• Jade Warshaw [33:46]: "You have this idea of something you can do, but if you really stop to break through, break down your plan, everything has to be perfect."
• Dr. John DeLoney [35:54]: "Money does weird things to people, John."
• Jade Warshaw [78:56]: "You can choose something different together."
• Dr. John DeLoney [79:05]: "This is a boundaries conversation."

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For more insights and personalized advice, visit www.ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Jade Warshaw]

Sa.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create real, actual amazing relationships. I'm Jade Warshaw, your host. Your other host today, Dr. John DeLoney. He is the author of Building a Non Anxious Life. He is also the host of the Dr. John DeLoney show which is popping off if I do say so myself. We'll be taking your calls. The numbers, include 882-55-5225. Get in where you fit in and we'll give you the best adv advice that we can muster up for you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Dude. Get in where you fit in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Get in where you fit in. What's that from?

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a T shirt right there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It is. I don't know where I got that from.

[Jade Warshaw]

I like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, let's do it. Let's chop it up. We got Jacob in Dallas. Teas, what's going on?

[Jacob]

Hey, can you guys hear me?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We can.

[Jacob]

Awesome. Love your guys show, John. Absolutely love your show. Been a longtime listener.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thanks, man. Appreciate. What's up?

[Jacob]

Yeah, so got two part question for you. This might not be as much of a money question as it is a relational question. So do with it what you will. My wife and I moved to Dallas around five months ago and it's been super rough since we got here. We're finally getting our feet underneath us. We both got jobs. She got a job in marketing and I'm in the end stages of my background investigation with a local police department in the area. We are on track with the baby steps doing all this stuff and she's having a really hard time at her job and her boss is being a real jerk and I don't know my place as her husband where it crosses the line for me to step in and speak to him. A little bit of background. So you guys know what I'm talking about. He is a very stubborn guy. She's running a business for him or he's trying to market this new product and essentially start up a business. And he put a lot of trust in her from the beginning to hire a team and be that person for his business. And he put it in her hands and he's been super indecisive this whole time and shortening the deadline of launch to now six weeks where it's supposed to take nine months and she's got her hands up in the air like what do I do?

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you trust your wife and Jacob?

[Jacob]

I trust my wife so much.

[Jade Warshaw]

Stay out of this completely. She's a Grown up. And this is where she works.

[Jacob]

Like, that's what I'm thinking.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's real tempting to take this back to, like, recess and be like, you talk to my girlfriend. This is a place of business. If she doesn't like it, she can walk out the front door.

[Jacob]

Right? That's what I think. That's what. I just don't know the boundary, because when he starts speaking to my wife in a way that is extremely dishonoring in front of her, and she gets.

[Jade Warshaw]

Up and walks out the door.

[Jacob]

Exactly. Okay. That's what I was thinking.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why hasn't she.

[Jacob]

Yeah, well, we're in a little bit of a place where we need the money right now, so we're in a position where we hate it, where it's like, I can't just have you walk out right now, which is what I want to be able to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

But no, my. My dignity is not for sale, and my wife's dignity is not for sale either. You have little kids.

[Jacob]

I know.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, then it may be that going to put my enrollment in the academy on hold, because I'm going to go work three jobs so that my wife can get out of this mess. But y'all have created a world where you feel like, I got it. We got to. We got to put up with this. When we. When Jade and I, we're always talking about freedom, Dave. We're always talking about freedom. Freedom, freedom. This is exactly what we're talking about. Because if y'all don't owe anybody any money, then you laugh and smile at the student. Be like, dude, we out. Right? I'm not. No one's going to talk to me that way. But y'all feel trapped. What is it. What would it take for you guys to. Financially, for you. For her to be able to walk out the door?

[Jacob]

Just. I think the smart choice is finding another job before she leaves, because we've had little to no income since we've been in Dallas.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just. No. I mean, it's so bad that you're about to do something stupid, like you're about to go confront another grown man at a place. At his place of business where he pays your life.

[Jacob]

I. I want to, in the fact that that's my wife, but I know that's not the smart choice. I'm not going to do that.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, But I'm saying, like, it's that bad. It's that bad.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, and you called in here saying, should you do that? So you. You definitely considered it. Let's be honest about that what she make? What does she earn? What does she earn at that job?

[Jacob]

Around. She takes some. Around $4,000 a month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What could. Is there something that she could find in her field to replace $4,000 a month? I'm thinking yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. No question in my mind.

[Jacob]

Sure. We've had a long journey trying to find a job, though. She's had a lot of interviews, and people just don't want to hire for some reason. So this is the first job that she's actually gotten hired since.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it's not the last job she'll get hired in. That's the thing. You got other.

[Caller 1]

Right.

[Jacob]

The other kicker is in a month, I'm going to be on the police department's payroll. So it's like, okay, we only have one month to pledge this, you know, so what's the. I don't know, because I keep telling her I don't want to overstep. You have your thing to do with your boss. But also, this would.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If she were to call in today, what would she be telling us?

[Caller 2]

In what manner does she.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is she saying every. Is she coming home every day saying, I want to quit, I want to quit? Or is she coming home every day just being like, gosh, my. My boss is such a jerk. What a. What a butthead. And is she not. Not talking about.

[Caller 1]

She.

[Jacob]

She loves her job and the team that she works with. She just can't get anything done when she's at work because her boss is a jerk and won't. He doesn't trust her to do the job that he hired her to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is you, busy body and brother. This is between her and her workplace.

[Jacob]

Okay, why?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why?

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, you see what I'm saying? Like, if she loves her job, she loves the work. She loves the challenge. She just has an annoying boss.

[Jacob]

And I'm just sitting here listening to her talk, and I'm like, okay, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Maybe that's the boundary, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That might be a conversation. If she's coming home every day and she's, you know, trashing her job and it's making you feel confused, you can have that conversation with her to say, listen, if you love your job and you're happy, but you come home every day and complain, it makes me think that you need to move on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or she maybe. Yeah, she's using you as a. As a garbage bin, right, for all the bad stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you don't want me to think that you need to move on, then I need to hear both sides of the story. I need to hear the positive stuff. And in that way, it's a little bit more balanced and we're just normal people talking about day to day life.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I, I, I, dude, I was bad about that. I'd come home and tell my wife all the stuff, the good. But also, man, this guy did this and this guy did that. And until she finally said, hey, I, I can't solve any of these problems, but you're continuing just to come home and fill our communication with negative, negative, negative, negative, either quit. And when she said that, I was like, I don't want to quit. And I realized, oh, all she's getting is the worst parts of the day.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that was on me, and I had to change that. But that took her drawing a boundary, a relational boundary, saying, I can't. If you have something awful that you want to share with me that we're going to, that you want me to sit with you in it, we're going to grieve it because we're getting ready to do something different. Awesome. I'm all in. But if it's just to complain, I'm, I'm kind of over that. I don't want to hear that all the time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Because if you're going to complain that much, at some point you do have to take action.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it's like it's the old piss or get off the pot kind of analogy. Can I say that, James? That's all right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, we just did. And you're, you're sitting there, you're like, you're about to get yourself kicked off the police force before you even join.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know this guy and like, cuss him out in the parking lot.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I, I do think a valid question, A valid question is are you asking for my advice or my wisdom or you? Or do you just want me to listen?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love that. That's good, John.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a question that will frame any of these conversations. Because if you want your opinion, she wants your opinion, you're going to give it to her. But otherwise, I'm just gonna sit here and I'm gonna listen. And dude, I get it. When somebody talks to your wife, you get all riled up like it's middle school again. It's her job. She's a professional. You trust her. She's smart. Let her handle her business.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is the Ramsey Show.

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney. Hey, give us a call. The number is Triple 8-825-5225. We'll talk about your life, your money, whatever it is that's going on in your life. We'd be happy to share our opinions with you. All right, let's go to the phone lines. We got Elizabeth in Santa Cruz, California. What's going on, Elizabeth?

[Elizabeth]

Hi, Jaden. John, my question is, does it make sense to accept a gift of $1 million from my in laws to purchase a house? And I can dive into some more context.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm happy to accept it on your behalf if you don't want it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One million.

[Jade Warshaw]

One million dollars. Yeah. Tell us more about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I need to know more.

[Elizabeth]

My husband and I are in our late 20s. Our income is 194,000 per year. We have no debt and we would like to start a family in a couple years. I would anticipate our income dropping down to 120,000 if I reduce my hours to take care of a baby. If the gift didn't exist, we would just keep renting and saving for five more years while my husband finishes a PhD and then we would move somewhere more affordable because we really don't ever anticipate being able to buy a house in Santa Cruz, California. However. Yeah, my in laws offered to give us this $1 million as a gift specifically to buy a house here in Santa Cruz. And that money is coming from my husband's deceased grandmother's trust. I guess I'm just concerned that a $1 million house in our financial context is just a little out of proportion and it really would be nearly 100% of our net worth. Even though it's just a normal house, like a three bedroom, nothing too crazy. It's just that it's Santa Cruz, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're in a market for sure. My question is, okay, so this is from grandmother's trust. Was this money that was going to be his? He's just, they're just giving it to him early or no or it truly.

[Elizabeth]

Is a gift is theirs and it would be a gift and.

[Jade Warshaw]

Go ahead, John, what are the strings attached to this? Are they cool? I Mean, if it has to be in Santa Cruz. If my, yeah, if my in laws said, hey, we would like to bless y'all with a million dollars to buy a house, my in laws are amazing, there'd be no strings attached to it, I would, I would gladly accept that gift. Yeah, I know many who don't. Or like Jade said, I'm going to give you a million dollars by house, but you'll buy it in the zip code. I tell you, you're going to buy it in. And if you'll ever get transferred or moved, that's our money that we're going to extract from the sale of this. You see what I'm saying?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wonder about that.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's where it gets really, really messy. So I think it just depends.

[Elizabeth]

Right?

[Jade Warshaw]

How much of this trust is this million dollars? Is it, is it a 50 million dollar trust and this is just one of the millions?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I want to know that.

[Elizabeth]

To be honest, I'm not sure the full amount, but I think it's less than a fifth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Less than a fifth of it. Okay, so it's a lot of money.

[Jade Warshaw]

So nobody's starving here?

[Elizabeth]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, let me ask you this, let just level with us real quick. How does that make you feel? Because I, I to, you know, this is a little bit different from what John said, but I, I don't even know what that looks like. And I feel like I would be so overwhelmed by a gift like that. It might be hard to take. How do you feel? Does it make you be like, yes, we hit the jackpot or are you like, oh my, my, my, like I don't know, what do you think I am intimidated?

[Elizabeth]

Just imagining our net worth like ballooning and exploding like that overnight fills me with some anxiety. I would just want to take care of that money very well and be a good student.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can I ask, can I ask you where that anxiety comes from? Is it, is it because those people, those people are the ones that have a million dollars, not people like us, right?

[Elizabeth]

Maybe, maybe a little bit of a feeling of ill gotten gain somehow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, can I interject because there is part of this, that, and you can tell me at any point, Elizabeth, if you're like, no, that's not what I mean. But like there is something to be said for when you walk step by step and you gain, you know, you're growing, you're gaining your net, net worth little by little as opposed to, it's.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like, it's like, it's like a toddler waking up and being 17 all the same.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. As opposed to, you know, we see folks who win the lottery and they're like, I just won the lottery. And they're all excited. But then you talk to them five, 10 years later and it's busted. So I could see where there is some anxiety there. Why is this different from that, John? Well, I, or is it different?

[Jade Warshaw]

I remember a great theologian once said that sometimes people can be as proud of the things that they don't have as people are of the things that they do. So there is, there can be an ethos. I'm not that kind of, I would never spend that kind of money on a house, so I'd never buy that kind of car. Right. And if, like Davis uses example, you have $200 million in your net worth and you gave away $20 million last year, and you buy a $200,000 car, that ratio is very similar.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. To somebody who gave somebody $20. Right. Or bought a 20 car. So all that to say is, if your identity is, I don't do stuff like that, then I would, I would tell you, maybe check that. And there's a pretty extraordinary gift and an opportunity to set your family up in a community where you're going to have family, et cetera. And also if the thought of going to bed every night, here we are. And by the way, y'all make 190 grand. Y'all are clearly smart and doing great. Right. But this idea that I just can't go from zero to 75 that fast, like, that's, that's too much for me to wrap my head around, then gently decline and say, no, thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What if you just said, hey, a million feels overwhelming. Is there a way that we could, you know, we've been trying to save for a down payment. Can you help us get to the down payment that we've been trying to afford? Maybe there's somewhere in the middle.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or maybe they buy the house and you rent from them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, no, I don't like that.

[Jade Warshaw]

You don't like that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know why. I just, I feel like that's even more tangled because they're still renting.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I, I, if, if you have a great relationship with them, I wouldn't lose sleep over taking the money, but I'd want every, everything clear. Like, if we decide to sell this house, is this a gift? Is this a loan? Is this a down payment? I want all that in writing. I want all that clear. I want everybody, all hearts clear before we make a big decision like this. But if there's a second of hesitation when it comes to strings or I just feel gross about then, then just say, no, thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's your husband think?

[Elizabeth]

He. I think he's also a little bit anxious about being able to maintain and take care of a $1 million house on. On Arc Income. Just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, wouldn't you be paying cash for it? So you wouldn't. You wouldn't spend more than a million. Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's a Santa Cruz house, so It's. It's probably 1700 square feet, three bedrooms, one bath, right?

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you're just mowing the lawn.

[Jade Warshaw]

So. Yeah, you're mowing along the. The roof's gonna be the roof. Right? So, yeah, you make a. You make 200 grand a year. Y'all. Y'all could cover the. The repairs and things on a house like that.

[Elizabeth]

Okay. I'm feeling better about it already.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, good.

[Jade Warshaw]

But. But listen to your husband's intuition. If he knows his mom and dad and he knows. Oh, man, if they give us a million dollars, we're going to hear about this every Christmas, every Thanksgiving, for the rest of our lives. Basically, they're for a million dollars. They're buying our. Our loyalty. They're buying their grandkids, like, in proximity. Like, I don't want to be on the hook to anybody.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Listen, you can look at back. You can look back on the track record. Let's. Let's play that out. Have they. Are they generous people? Are they always giving gifts, you know, big or small? How have they been, you know, whenever they've offered a gift or is this their first time? Because this is worth noting. If they are also receiving a windfall for a first time, they may not know how they're going to be as gift givers. Does that make it sense? Like, if I. Let's just pretend if I won the lottery today and I'm like, oh, I won the lottery, I'm going to help my whole family out and I start giving away a million dollars to each of them. I might go into it thinking that I won't have any strings attached, but because I've never tested that before, you might realize, dang, a million dollars. It has. It does have an emotional hold on you, and you do have an expectation for what they'll do.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're pick up the phone, be like, you're not buying that car.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. It's like, whoa.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So there is part of this that you do need to consider. Like, are we. Were your in laws already wealthy people and they've already been generous. Or is this new for them? So these are some. I like this conversation.

[Jade Warshaw]

I do, too. It's a fun conversation. And it's such an. It's such an obnoxious amount of money, Right. For most of us, it might happen at 10,000 or 2,000 or 500 or whatever. But I think that idea about strings and can y'all sleep at night? Is good. And I also, like, man, if it's your ego holding you back, check that. Check that. Ooh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I kind of. If it were me. She can do what she wants. This is not a right or wrong answer. I feel like I'd be comfortable with the taking the down payment on the house that we would have bought, that we would have been able to afford. Right. You're just getting there a little bit sooner. I feel like that's there. And the million. I'll take the million. Alex. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. Just about everything costs more these days, and healthcare is no exception. So if you're looking at your healthcare options during open enrollment, be sure to.

[Elizabeth]

Check out Christian Healthcare Ministries.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

CHM is not health insurance. It's a biblically based health cost sharing.

[Elizabeth]

Ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Families just like yours with healthcare costs. CHM is affordable, aligns with your values, and gives you more options for your health care.

[Elizabeth]

And you can join at any time, including open enrollment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Find out more and join [e-mail] budget.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's chministries.org budget, 3825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. Give us a shout. We're talking money, mental health, marriage, whatever you got going on, we're here for you. Squat to Sarah in San Francisco. What's up, Sarah? Sarah, hi.

[Elizabeth]

How are you doing today?

[Jade Warshaw]

So good. How are you?

[Elizabeth]

I'm good.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's up?

[Elizabeth]

Okay, so my question is. I went straight to culinary school from high school.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Cool.

[Elizabeth]

In 2003. Thank you. My mom took out a loan for me because I was 17.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Elizabeth]

The original loan was 30,000. We agreed to split it 50 50. As soon as I graduated, I was giving her money every month. I was staying with her because I didn't have the money, but I was giving her money every month. I eventually realized that she was not paying on the student loan at all. When I found out, she apologized and she said that she would start paying. I continued to give her money every month. As you can imagine, I wasn't making very much money at that time. And I then again discovered she was not applying any of that money towards the student loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much. How much have you given her so far, Sarah?

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, so I'm not sure exactly because I wasn't counting, but I do know that I gave her. When we talked, I gave her at least 5,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. How did you give it? Was it a check? How did you do that?

[Elizabeth]

I was giving her cash. I was giving her $200 every month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, every month.

[Elizabeth]

Well, I was making. I was making minimum wage. I was working.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Elizabeth]

At.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Anyway, is your.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is your name on the loan or your mom's? Yeah, your mom's name is on the loan.

[Elizabeth]

Only my mom. It's a parent plus loan. So the reason why I know now all this information is because recently she came to me and she brought up this loan. Because after a while, I just stopped giving her money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How long has it been?

[Elizabeth]

So 2003.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, girl. Okay.

[Elizabeth]

Recently she brought up this loan and she asked me for a lump sum of money. She asked me for about $20,000. I don't have that kind of money. I can't give you that. And we didn't agree. I've been giving you money. Blah, blah. Long story short, I looked into the loan. She owes over $70,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, Sarah, listen, this is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, gosh, I'm sorry. I had to let a little bit of my.

[Elizabeth]

And I don't know what to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Here's what's. Here's what's not scary about it. Yeah, okay, there is some scary, but it's. I don't think it's what you think it is. Okay, here's the scary. Your. You and your mom's relationship is different from this point forward.

[Elizabeth]

Okay?

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And the sooner you come to terms with the fact that your mother did not uphold your end of the agreement, I can tell you all day, I think the agreement was dumb. It should. Y'all should never have set that up. It was. It was destined to create a wedge between a mother and a daughter. But here we are.

[Elizabeth]

Okay?

[Jade Warshaw]

She has decided to not sit down and be the adult and say, I took out a loan. Here's. Every month for the next however many years. Here's what you're going to pay me. Here's how this is going to work. I'm going to keep a spreadsheet. I'm going to mark off every date. All that like a bank would do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

You basically funded her lifestyle in a tiny little way. And then she comes knocking on your door 20 years later asking for $20,000?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Do you know who's not on the hook for this money?

[Jade Warshaw]

You, Sarah? None.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You. You're not on the hook. You. Look, you are not on the hook for this money. Now, this is your mom. And I know that you feel some level of guilt or. But I should probably. But you. You gave her the money. You gave it to her retired. That doesn't. It doesn't matter. At this. Literally, at this point, anything you say about to try to, like, make it better, I'm gonna tell you it doesn't matter.

[Jade Warshaw]

Doesn't matter.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You gave her the money. She chose. She chose. And now for whatever reasons that she has which don't matter, she wants that money back from you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, the loan is probably. Is it tripled? Is it triple? Is it 80 or 90,000 bucks?

[Elizabeth]

70,000. It's 70,000 and some change. And now she's making me feel like, here's what you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what you could do.

[Jade Warshaw]

She doesn't. Hold on. She doesn't get to. You're allowing her to get inside you and to make you feel a certain way. You decide who has permission to hurt you. Period. Now, that's harder when it's our mom, because our mom should be the one person on the planet that's always got our side and yours doesn't. Okay? And I. I hate that for you. But she's not making you feel bad. You're choosing to feel bad on her behalf.

[Elizabeth]

Okay?

[Jade Warshaw]

You gotta own that. You gotta own that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, here's what you could do. Now, you said to your. You said if you were really interested in feeling very clean, walking away from this situation, you said that the loan was 30,000 and you were supposed to split it, so that would be 15k on you. Now, if you're telling me, hey, I paid 5,000 towards this loan, I know that I paid 5,000, give her another 10k and say, hey, I paid my half. And that would have been it if you wanted to do that. And just say, I know I paid 15. You didn't do your thing. Whatever. You could do that, but you're not on the hook for this.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right? So, Sarah, if. I was going to say, sarah, if I'm in. If this is me, like, I'm just. I'm fast. I'm thinking about this being my mom. Okay? And we sit down. What I would say is exactly what Jade said. But I would. I would. I would add one extra layer. I would put a payment plan in front of her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And say I agreed to pay $15,000 of a $30,000 loan. I'm going to pay you 20 back, and I'm going to already say, I've already given you five, and that's on the low end. So I'm going to pay you $15,000. And here's what I can pay over the next 12 months. 15 months, 24 months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you make the payment. Don't hand her any more money. Yes.

[Elizabeth]

Okay, so directly to the. If I. If I give it directly to the place, will they now want my information.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or just get the log in and pay it? Say, mom, the only way you this money is I sit right next to you. We log in and we pay it. Because you're not handing her. You're not funding her ridiculousness because she has not been a good steward with money. So that is ridiculousness. And you're not going to hand her $15,000 to do whatever it is that she's been doing, which, whatever that was, caused a student loan to triple. All right? So we're not participating in that. Yeah, really bad.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so here's another thing we're going to do, Sarah. I'm going to give you. I'm going to give you a year of FPU, okay? And she might not, but she's still got $55,000 left to pay off after you write her a check. And so if she wants to, you can sit down and put these videos on, and y'all can come up with a plan. It's not too late for her, either. We deal with folks all the time in the 50s, 60s who are figuring it out. And it's not too late. But you get to make that choice. She gets to make that choice. Okay? So hang on the line here. We're gonna hook you up and hope and maybe even say, I'm gonna give you $15,000, which is five grand more. But you got to sit down and watch these videos with me because you got $55,000. And listen, if she starts hassling you, start saying, oh, you're just gonna leave your mama to what? You can always stand up and walk out the door. And that's hard, hard, hard. But remember this line. Behavior is a language. And if your mom chooses to swear at you, get mad at you, send you on guilt trips that you can't afford, she's telling you through her language, I don't want you around here. I don't value you. And so I'm going to hear what you're saying through your actions, and I'm going to head out the door until we can have a grown up conversation. It's going to be hard, hard treading. You're gonna have to grieve the loss of your mom or your new relationship with your mom because things are different now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dude. Money does weird things to people, John.

[Jade Warshaw]

But this is why. I mean I can't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Money, Money makes people act up though, like it does.

[Jade Warshaw]

But, but co signing on loans, man, just. I, I've never seen it work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, it doesn't work.

[Jade Warshaw]

I haven't seen it work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, it doesn't work. Co signing is, is stupid.

[Jade Warshaw]

And especially if you have. Listen, if you've taken a loan out with your kids and y'all have like car payment loan, you just pay me back or you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, no.

[Jade Warshaw]

Put it in a spreadsheet, be adults and say you owe me this much on this date in this way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And, and, and, and think about this. She said she was 17 when her mom signed that loan. Adults. Be adults and understand that your kids were kids and you were adulting them at that time. Do not come after these folks for these parent plus loans.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right? You, you signed them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Parents. Parents plus. That means parent plus your money. The bank who's paying it off, bank.

[Jade Warshaw]

Looked at your kid and said, I'm not giving him money. And you said, well, you can give it to me. I'm trusting. Trustworthy. Yeah, be trustworthy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Be trustworthy. Be trustworthy and pay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Pay your bills. Parents act like parents.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Parents act like parents.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm gonna have to get the Preparation H out. Hey, we'll be right back.

[Rachel Cruz]

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[Jade Warshaw]

I'm John DeLoney, joined here by Jade Warshaw. Is your marriage going sideways? Give us a shout. Are you struggling with your mental health or got money questions or you just don't know what to do with your kids? Holler at us. Triple 882-55-5225. Let's go out to Chris in Springfield, Missouri. What's up, Chris? How we doing?

[Caller 1]

Hey, man. Before I start, I just wanted to say thank you to you guys and everybody at Ramsey Solutions. Since I was younger, you've had a really positive impact on me and my financial decision. So.

[Jade Warshaw]

Cool.

[Caller 1]

I just want to say for that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, thanks, brother. Appreciate it, man. What's that?

[Caller 1]

I think it would be important just to give you guys a little bit of context on me and just my background before I ask my questions. Basically, I've always been really good with my money. Over a few years, I was able to save up like $50,000. 40,000 of it was in my savings and then 10,000 of it I had invested in mutual funds. I also am going to school. I like to say better than debt free because I'm going totally free. Good for you. That's all our tips and a work study and stuff like that. So with that, though, during all of that time that I was accumulating those funds, I was in an abusive relationship. Pretty much like anything negative you could think of.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm sorry.

[Caller 1]

She dished all that out. So it kind of messed me up. And when I was finally able to get out of it as a way of coping, I guess I started spending my money on a lot of stuff. Sorry, you're right. Over, like maybe eight months now, I totally drained all my savings and I've pulled out all my investments and I've just spent it all on crap. And I probably only have like, I don't know, maybe a little under $2,000 now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 1]

So I just, I don't really know where to go from here because my plan originally was once I get my bachelor's, you know, the deal that I kind of have with my parents is like, once I'm done with college and I'm out of the house and that's just what it is. And I was going to go to grad school and everything, but I'm just not really sure how to, like, go about doing that and just what to do financially anymore.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I think, you know, Dave's been saying for years, your money is just a reflection of what's going on in your heart and mind and soul in life. And so right now, I want to move the money conversation over. It's a big neon sign letting you know that you're not alright right now. And I want to tell you, having sat with people, I can't count how many people I've sat across the table with or sat next to who are trying to figure out who they are after leaving an abusive relationship and the chaos of. I still love that person, but that person deeply hurt me in a number of different ways. I lost part of myself and I don't even know what that means and how to get that back. All of that stuff is all chaotic and a mess. And yeah, man, you, you got out your spending card and went. Went bananas. What I would tell you is the sun came up today, right?

[Caller 1]

That's true.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

You got 2,000 bucks and I don't want to minimize. You're gonna have some grief and you're probably gonna have some resentment. You're gonna have all that stuff, all those feelings, dude, listen to me. They're right. They're fine. They're good. They're right. The only thing you can do from this moment forward, you can't go back and edit sentences that have already been written. They got a period at the end of them. You were in love with somebody that hurt you deeply. You broke up. You spent $48,000 in a spending spree to wallpaper over depression and grief and sadness. And here you are. And the things you told us leading up to those moments tell me that you are a strong kid and that you're a driven guy and you have accomplished a ton. We, we. Very few of the adults that call into this show have $50,000 access. $50,000 cash, my brother. Very few people call in and say, hey, I figured out how to do college for free. And so you had a plan. And that plan's gonna be different now. You had a plan. You're just gonna waltz into grad school, into your next job because you had a big nest egg. Well, you don't have that anymore, so cool. Nothing about what you've told me suggests that you suddenly have lost the ability to work really hard, because I know that's who you are. And nothing you've told me says suddenly you're dumb because you're not. What you have told me is you're going to have to spend some see a season grieving this. You're going to have to go spend some time with a counselor. Okay. And I would tell you that if you're my best friend or you're my brother.

[Caller 1]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And you're going to spend some time healing and you're going to spend some time. Here's the. Here's the uncomfortable truth about abusive relationships that people often don't hear. It's real easy to be on the outside of that and to demonize the abuser. What people often fail to take into account is the person being abused loses trust in themselves. I don't even trust me anymore. And now you've got 48,000 reasons to further not trust you. Right. What you're going to have to do is learn to build trust in Chris again. That's just going to take some practice, my man.

[Caller 1]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 1]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So here's the deal. I want you to hang on the line here. Are you. You're still in school, right?

[Caller 1]

Yeah, I got a year left.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, here's why. That's phenomenal. That's fantastic. I'm so happy because that means you have access to a student counseling center. That's going to be outstanding. And in a time when it's very hard to just call a therapist off the street and get an appointment, you're going to be able to do that. So I want you to make that call today. In exchange for making that call, we're going to send you Ken Coleman's Get Clear Assess Assessment. We're going to send you his book. Paycheck to purpose, and I'm going to send you my book. Own your past, change your future, and that my whole book is what happens when you are sitting down. You realize you're in ash. And how do you take that next step out? Okay. I'm grateful for the call, man. And we love you and we'll help you every step of the way here. I just need you to hear me say, you're not broken, you're not dysfunctional. You didn't do anything wrong. I mean, he blew a bunch of money and I would laugh with you and high five you if we were sitting at the table. And also, I don't believe. Jade, I don't believe in the phrase too soon. That's just kind of me. But I. I'd high five you and then we would get on with, okay, what comes next. But you got some healing to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, yeah, that's tough. I think you covered it. I don't. I'm not gonna add or take away.

[Jade Warshaw]

How I'm trying to think of how I've wrestled with moments in my life, Jade, when I've just flat out set my values on fire, or I've set flat out done something that I said I wasn't going to do, or I've spent my time poking my finger at people who do things, and then all of a sudden, I look up six months later and I'm that guy now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. Right. You know, it's tough. I was sitting here trying to think of a similar situation. I'm like, when have I been there? Like, what have I? And it's. You can really live in the past and wallow in, like, man, what I did. I spent $48,000. How could I have done that? But then it's like, what are you gonna do next?

[Jade Warshaw]

And I. I think as a. As a culture, we have two narratives. One is, you're always going to be the worst thing you. You've ever done, the worst thing ever happened. You're always going to be the dumbest thing you've ever done. And then the other one is, if you have feelings and you're a coward and a wimp and you're weak, you need to suck it up and grind it. And I think that's nonsense. I think the world is desperate for a new third way, which is we're gonna spend some time feeling sad and we're gonna have some grief. You went through hell and you did some dumb stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Let's just acknowledge it. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then we're gonna get the right people around us, and because we can't do it alone, we get the right people around us, and then we're going to take the next crooked, wobbly step forward to wherever it is we're going. Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Progress. Not necessarily perfection. Nobody's out here doing things perfect. We're all just trying to. Just trying to make some kind of progress forward. Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, George Campbell tells us he's perfect.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

His hair is perfect.

[Jade Warshaw]

His hair is perfect.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's high. It's high and tight.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, you should see the hair dryer he has back there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've never seen it.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's the. He actually converted an old air conditioner. It's really an extraordinary.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I need to get on that, then.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, they have a special plug in there. It's like a 220. It's incredible. But, hey, that's another hour in the books here on the Ramsey Show. Be kind to one another. Pay off your debts. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, it's that time of year. It's starting to get a little bit colder. It's getting a little bit dark earlier. And sometimes if you're like me, you just want to stay inside and get cozy. And for me, my perfect cozy night is me and all of my family piled under blankets, watching a movie, sitting by the fire, maybe even reading a book. Listen, whatever your perfect night in looks like, sometimes therapy can feel a bit like that. A time when you can settle in, finally, exhale, replenish your energy, and begin to take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or any other time of year. Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one of the reasons I Recommend Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy with licensed therapists. You can talk with your therapist just about anytime and just about anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a therapist and you can switch therapists for no extra cost. Find comfort this December with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build web, well, get out of debt, do work that they love, and create incredible relationships and speak clearly. We help with that, too. I'm John Deloney, joined here by my friend Jade Warshaw. And we have the lines open. Triple 882-55-5225. It's triple 882-55-2225. Let's run out to New Hampshire and talk to Dylan. What's up, Dylan? How we doing?

[Dylan]

Hey, I just had a quick question for you both. I'm assuming, John, you'll be able to answer this a little better, but you might.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, Jason. Way smarter than me.

[Dylan]

We'll see how it goes. So it would seem that my mom is boycotting my rehearsal and my rehearsal dinner because I changed a small plan.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know. I might be able to answer this one because I know about that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Dude, I'm laughing with you, man. Like, so what? What'd you do, Richard? What'd you. What did you change that was so bad?

[Dylan]

So I'll run it quick. So, you know, back months ago when we gave them the opportunity to kind of plan the dinner, it's not what we wanted. Originally, we told them, you know, we just wanted to have pizza and go back to the Airbnb and just have a Good time with the bridal party. Well, my mom absolutely insisted on paying for this and making, you know, a big dinner. We go out and all this and that. Obviously, you know, listening to you guys, I try to save as much money as possible, but she wasn't on board with that. And, you know, I gave her the opportunity for months and months and months. And a few days ago, I talked to her and told her. I'm like, hey, we're really thinking about switching back to our original plan. And I was like, I'll give you a few days to figure it out. Well, I just waited one day and I was like, you know what I should do, what I really want to do. It's my special day, you know, and my. Of course, my fiance's too, but. And I decided, I'm like, hey, this is what we're gonna do instead.

[Jade Warshaw]

But I didn't see this coming. But I want to lean on you a little bit and you push back. Okay.

[Dylan]

Of course.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why would you take this from your mom? It's like a dinner that she's paying for.

[Dylan]

Well, just because it's originally not what we wanted. And she. I should add to this too. She started inviting a bunch of people that we didn't want.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There it is.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, well, that too, with that brother. Lead. Lead with that. Because that, that changes.

[Dylan]

But that was. That wasn't the biggest issue. I don't think it's that she didn't really respect that we originally wanted to do something else.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure.

[Dylan]

And that's how I took it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dylan, is there strings attached to this?

[Dylan]

As in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

As in I'm doing this for you. So somewhere down the line, there's going to be an expectation of something I want from you.

[Dylan]

You know, there I. I'm not going to go as far as that. But it's not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Oh, I know.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know about it. All right, so here's. Here's the deal. This is as. As heartbreaking and complicated as this is. This is very, very simple. You made a grown up choice. And with all grown up choices, there always comes grown up consequences to those choices. Unfortunately, your mom is choosing to act like a child. And I mean that with all due respect. I don't like talking about people's mamas, but here we are.

[Dylan]

Oh, I've said it a few times.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. So one of the hardest things I think any of us will experience is when somebody we love opts out of relationship with us because they're choosing to be immature, because they are making our. Whatever. How we're raising Our kid, what school our kid goes to, our choice of diet, our. Whatever you want to say. They make our lives about them.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And she is choosing to not be in relationship with you and your wife during your big day. And that just hurts. And so it's a both end. I want you to spend time, even just for a few minutes saying like, this sucks, man. I want my mom in my wedding. I hate that she's acting like this. And you and I both know she acts like this on other things too. This isn't isolated, right?

[Dylan]

No, not at all.

[Jade Warshaw]

Awesome.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And can I add something? Of course she's going to come to your dinner. Well, I think she's gonna come.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm hoping so.

[Dylan]

I would write her a letter so bad.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey. I would write her a letter that she can go back to over and over and over again and say we really. It would mean the world to us that you come. I know that you. You wanted a big. A big thing. And I'm so grateful that you're honoring us to this one. We really want you here.

[Dylan]

Yeah. I mean, the thing is that. I mean, she won't even come to the rehearsal, which I. Which is the worst part. To me, I'm okay if she didn't want to come to the dinner.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She's saying that. She's saying that. And I don't know her, so I may be totally off base. I think that this is her last ditch effort to get her way on this. And Mike.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would probably be willing to put a couple. I put some chips on the table on this that she's gonna end up there. I don't think she's gonna miss her son's major days over this. Now, maybe I don't know her and, and I'm completely wrong, but something tells me that when the rubber hits the road, she's going to be there.

[Jade Warshaw]

What about your old man? Have you talked to him about it?

[Dylan]

Yeah, I actually spoke to him today and he just initially, you know, it's first time. Also, keep in mind my. My mother won't talk to me at all. She will not talk to me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Of course. Well, you ruined her life, jerk.

[Dylan]

Oh, you know, yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Ripping her heart out.

[Dylan]

But I did speak to my dad this morning and he was saying that she just feels hurt and it doesn't have anything to do with the dinner, which I don't believe because this kind of stuff has happened before where she doesn't get her way and this. Which I don't believe, but.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, he's probably been Covering her for her for a long time, too, right?

[Dylan]

Oh, of course. Yeah. I mean, obviously he has to take her side in most cases, and I don't blame him. But. Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, no, I spoke to him.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so if she will talk to you, the best. The best I can tell you is what I would do in your situation, and that would be I would write a letter and I would do my best to deliver it by hand. If you love in the same. If you all live in the same community, put it in her mailbox by hand.

[Dylan]

I was at her house yesterday.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And let her have something. Because, listen, if you call her, if you text her, she is going to hear that one time in her, through her filter of. Dylan is trying to ruin my life. Yeah. And Dylan's going to embarrass me because I'm in charge of the dinner, and everyone's going to ask me why I just did pizza. And it's all about her. If you write it down, people can go back to the letter and back to it and back to it, and sometimes. Not always, but sometimes that truth has a way of distilling itself down and she can rest in. He wants me there. Him and his wife are just trying to do things a little bit differently. It's not about me, et cetera, and you hope that's the case. But we all have open. But that's a great idea. And tell your dad we really, really want both of y'all there.

[Dylan]

Oh, I. I told him that. I. I told him that this morning when I spoke to him. Like, if the worst case scenario happens, I'm like, please, dad, be at my wedding.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Like, at the very least. Yeah. So, yeah, no, it's pretty crazy, but.

[Jade Warshaw]

I hate it for you. I hate it.

[Dylan]

I appreciate it. Thank you, though. But, yeah, that was pretty much it. I appreciate you guys.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I don't get to. It's not every day I get to talk to somebody who just willy nilly, rips his mom's heart out, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dude, look, when it comes to these weddings, it's like that. Like, if I had done what all the parents had wanted, I would have been married in a different state. I would have been got. I would have gotten married on a different date. I would have gotten married, you know, in a different dress. Like, they all have their preferences, but at the end of the day, it is your thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's your.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's your day, it's your thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

And sometimes it's just a dinner. Do the dinner. But if it is that big of a deal. You made a grown up choice and that comes with grown up consequences.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, this is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, I'm excited to talk about a new sponsor, Burna. You all probably know I'm a gun guy, but I'm big on safety, so I'm also a Burna guy. Burner is the ungun, a less lethal option that protects you in more ways than one. A burner is effective self defense when you need it. It also helps protect your assets from lawsuits if you have no choice but to use force. Because a burner pistol immobilizes attackers without fatal harm. I have several burner pistols and I love them. In fact, I had a burner before they started advertising with us. They're easy to use with no recoil and no noise reduction needed. They're legal in all 50 states with no permits required. And because they're not firearms, they can be shipped right to your door. And you can train with a burner right in your backyard. Plus, our listeners can get the Ramsey burna bundle for 10% off, which includes a burner pistol, CO2 cartridges and ammo. And other burner products like safety alarms, defense sprays and body armor are also 10% off. For Ramsey fans, see why Burna has more than 15,000 five star reviews. Just go to Burna.com Dave to learn more. That's B Y R N A dot com Dave. Hey, Dave Ramsey here. Dr. John DeLoney and I are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships tour. You the audience will vote to choose the topics. We talk about things that impact your life, like investing in your future, money, stress in marriage and more. We're coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Kansas City, Fort Worth and Phoenix in April and May 2025. Tickets are at their lowest price right now. Grab [e-mail] tour.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is the Ramsey Show, 888825 5225. If you're a new listener and you want to know what we're even talking about when we talk about things like the baby steps and the snowball and all those things, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on the get started button. We're gonna help you figure out the next best step for you in your financial journey based exactly where you are today. A lot of times people say, well, that call didn't have anything to do with me. We can tailor make this thing for you. Okay. Ramseysolutions.com Click on Get Started and we'll walk you to Debt Freedom from there. Let's go out to Lane in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. What's up, Lane?

[Caller 1]

Hey, John.

[Jacob]

Hey, Jade.

[Caller 1]

How are you guys?

[Jade Warshaw]

We're good. How are you?

[Caller 1]

Pretty good, Pretty good. Can't complain.

[Jade Warshaw]

Excellent, man. What's up?

[Caller 1]

So basically I just wanted to I guess say thank you. For you guys or to you guys? Just for teaching what you teach? I guess for some context. My wife and I are. I'm 23, my wife's 21. We have a 15 month old daughter. And like three, four days ago, our house got wiped out by a tornado.

[Jade Warshaw]

No. Shoot, man, y'all, Everybody's okay?

[Caller 1]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In Calgary. Wait, where are you?

[Caller 1]

We actually live about an hour hour north of Calgary near Didsbury. I don't know if that means anything to you, but. Yeah, I didn't know they had that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Kind of weather there.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is that normal?

[Caller 1]

We do now, yeah. So this was the biggest tornado in Alberta in the last 36 years. There was quite a few farms taken out. We're rural, so thankfully there were more people. But no one was hurt, by the way. But yeah, if anyone was in our house, they would have been. Well, no more. We'll put it that way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow.

[Caller 1]

But like we have most of our stuff, you know, we don't have a house. We're living with my mom for the time being and we'll transfer into other things. But I just, you know, when it happened, like we hightailed it over there and I guess to put it in a way that makes sense, like I don't. I don't care financially. Like oh, wow. Like we're. We're on. We're on baby step four, five and six.

[Jade Warshaw]

We.

[Caller 1]

We have an emergency fund. And like I was way more worried to make this call to talk to you guys than I was about our house being wiped out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow.

[Caller 1]

Perspective. And I just wanted to say thank you. And means the world that you guys teach this stuff. My mother in law that actually introduced me to you guys and man, I'm so grateful because I don't know where we'd be otherwise.

[Jade Warshaw]

Dude, that means the world that you. That you took the time to call Lane, circle back and appreciate it. And I think it's important for everybody to know that Jade and I have no illusions. We know we're just a couple of knuckleheads on the radio.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You did it.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're the one actually working, man. And for sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow. Good for you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good for you. I'm glad everybody's safe and okay. And I'm glad that you all get to make the next step position. The next step moved from a position of strength, not a position of desperation. That's, that's incredible, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow.

[Caller 1]

And great place to be.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, dude, I'm really grateful that you circle back and gave us a shout, dude, that, that means the world to us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, John, people say all, you know, people call in and, and they, they thank us and they're happy with the results of the plan. And you know, we said, and we weren't joking around. He's the one that did the, the work there. And I think sometimes we've seen it on previous calls. I think sometimes with Financial Peace University people kind of get it in their head that it's a magic trick and that if I just take the class, the class will do its magic work and I'll be magically where I want to be financially. And that's not how it is at all. You get the information and you get to choose whether or not you're going to implement it. You get to choose whether or not you're going to go all in. Because I mean, when you really stop it, like, we know, we know it's a plan that works for people who choose to work it. We know that it's helped millions of people get out of debt and change their lives and not just get out of debt, but go on to build wealth and become, you know, baby steps millionaires and things like that. And, but those are the people they choose to show up every week, right? Because it's nine weeks. So they choose to say this is a priority for me for nine weeks. I'm going to cut out and carve out this area of my time. I'm going to show up whether it's in person or online because you get your choice. And they're the heroes in this story. It's not us. We get to, like you said, be on here and, and be goof offs on the radio. And for some reason people listen to us and it's amazing. But they're the ones who carve out that time. They do the work and they're the ones that see the turnaround, they see that improvement and it doesn't take long. Most of the people who really dig into Financial Peace University, man, they're seeing like eight thousand dollar turnarounds lickety split, you know, within the first 30 days and things like that. So this, that call was really a testament to not only it's not about the plan, it's about the plan plus the person. Right. And plus their involvement in it. And that's when it works. So if anybody's interested in going through the same plan that helped my guy out. Come on. Tornado blew down his house and yet here he is. Financial Peace University. You can find that going to ramseysolutions.comfpu.

[Jade Warshaw]

And one more thing, and this is for everybody listening, we have a bad psychology where I'll forever remember right after 911 happened and all of the, I don't remember who it was, Senate or the House, the Congress was, was on the steps of the White House singing together and it was this moment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And humans have an ability to come together in madness and make clear headed next right decisions. But man, we make the stupidest decisions in times of. It's all good. It's all good. We just pretend reality doesn't count.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so short memories. Yes. And so I don't mean this in a caustic way at all, but what happened to Elaine will happen to all of us. Life will come at us. Moms will get sick, kids will have issues, Tornadoes will hit houses. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. And so this plan, and I say this plan, living a life where you don't owe anybody anything. You said it earlier. Living a life where I am fully empowered to be as free as possible in my health, in my relationships, in my finances, in where I work. An ability to stand up tall in a culture that is so disempowering, man. Chopping you down when it comes. The most annoying thing will be who's going to call to the air conditioner person who's good. I want to call in and say thank you. And I'm nervous about that. That's the hardest part of losing my house. It will come. Do you have a group of people with you that you can weep with? Do you have an emergency fund? Do you have these things? Because it's going to. And we had thousands and thousands of years of farmers who knew this. Don't, don't go through all your grain. You're going to have a couple of years where it doesn't rain. That's life. And in two short generations we've just thought we're smarter than nature and we can beat it all with our, with our smarts and our technology. It doesn't work, man. It will come for you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You make a great point because it's true. And I don't say this to be like a fatalist or to be negative. You cannot plan your life Based on best case scenarios. Like so many times people call in and I've been guilty of it. It' you have this idea of something you can do, but if you really stop to break through, break down your plan, everything has to be perfect in order for it to work right. Not one domino can fall in order for it to work right. And then what happens? That one domino falls that you never perceived could fall, and you're like, holy crap, everything's caving in on me. And I don't. And that's, that's why things like this are so important. I mean, one, one call we had. The girl's got diabetes, right? And she's trying to get her medication. How great would it be if that's never an issue for her again? She's just got the money piled up. She's got the financial piece, you know, that you, I heard you talking about your electricity, Electricity problems. And it's like to just be able to up. I mean, you can just up and pay that bill. But I know there's plenty of people listening who, if something happened and the electrical went out on their house, they'd be up a creek because there's no margin there. There's no room for error. My AC went out the other week. It was. Happened to be one of the hottest days and my husband was out of town. The, you know, it was like, no big deal, all right? Nobody likes to pay for things like that, but you know what I'm saying, Like, just to have that piece of.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it's that piece.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's the piece.

[Jade Warshaw]

But life's coming. The tornado's coming. And again, it's not a fatalist thing. It's not a, ooh, we're fear mongers.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it's just life.

[Jade Warshaw]

We, we just do life with people who are hurting. We wouldn't have a job if everything went right all the time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right?

[Jade Warshaw]

And so live a life where you're connected with other people. Live a life where you enjoy going to work. Live a life where you don't owe anybody anything. And like I said a minute ago, in a world that is telling you you can't survive without us, stand up tall and say, yeah, I can. As for me and my house, yes, we can. We'll be right back.

[Rachel Cruz]

Between Christmas shopping and holiday get togethers, investing might be the last thing on your mind, but there are certain things you might need to take care of before the year ends. And you don't have to do it alone. The SmartVestor program can connect you with a Financial advisor near you. Whether you've got questions about retirement planning, required distributions, or anything in between, a SmartVestor Pro will walk you through what you need to know. Head to ramseysolutions.com smartvestor to get connected.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client.

[Caller 2]

Promoter of participating pros.

[Jade Warshaw]

Learn [e-mail], smartVestor. This is the Ramsey Show. 888, 825, 5225. I'm John DeLoney, joined by Jade Warshaw. Let's go out to Destin, Florida and talk to Josh. What's up, brother? Josh.

[Elizabeth]

Hey.

[Jade Warshaw]

How you doing? Good, man. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm okay.

[Josh]

I appreciate you taking the call.

[Jade Warshaw]

You got it, man. What's up?

[Josh]

Oh, I guess I'll cut right to it. So I've been following you guys for a little while, trying to get my finances on track, but I've come to a decision. I need to start handling my life and get some stuff on track. And I want to go to rehab so I can quit my drinking.

[Jade Warshaw]

Dude, I'm proud of you, man. Hold on, hold on. Don't blow up by that. That's huge. What led you here? There are millions and millions of people in the United States that need to make this decision, and I want them to hear where you landed. You'll be a gift.

[Josh]

I mean, in the past, I battled with other substance abuse issues and I let that go. I've been clean from all that, and I just kind of picked up the bottle and just tired of it. Tired of doing the same things over and over again. Tired of relying on something to feel like I need it to function.

[Jade Warshaw]

Awesome. I'm proud of you, man. Proud of you. So how can we help?

[Josh]

Well, pretty much my insurance situation, the only way to get into treatment, it covers most of it, except for about $6,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Josh]

Six to $10,000, depending on location. So really not trying to get into any more debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure.

[Josh]

But I want to take care of this.

[Jade Warshaw]

The first question I would ask is often, and I'm talking about rehab places that are not like, go to Malibu or you're in Destin. Not like a beachfront place that's going to be a resort. Okay. Yeah. Often if you sit down, places will wave the gap between the insurance and the. The what? The cash out. Okay. It's. It's a. It's the equivalent of a scholarship program. So I would have that conversation with the place.

[Josh]

Have you done that in calling and asking for scholarships? I've called Hundreds of places.

[Jade Warshaw]

Probably. You haven't called.

[Josh]

Maybe a slight exaggeration, but yeah, a lot.

[Jade Warshaw]

A big exaggeration. Okay. Yes. And nobody will wave the gap?

[Josh]

No, not. That'll cover my insurance.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you mean?

[Josh]

Because that's the, that's the cheap. The cheapest thing I've been able to find is a six thousand dollar copay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, is that your deductible?

[Josh]

Yes, that's the cheap thing I can get. I've applied for scholarships.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Josh]

They're saying they're not doing it.

[Jade Warshaw]

So do you have guns or guitars or a truck? You have something you can sell?

[Josh]

No, I mean, I've got a truck, but it's my work truck.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can you go down in value on it? What's it worth?

[Josh]

No, I'm upside down in it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's it worth?

[Josh]

Probably about 11 grand.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you owe on it?

[Josh]

About 200,000 miles on it? 12.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What would happen you owe 12, it's worth 11. What would happen if you sold that and went down half the value and just bought yourself a little truck? That'll get you. Is there anything. Do you see what I'm saying? Like this is temporary.

[Josh]

I get what you're saying, but it's a truck with 200,000 miles on it. Not that many people are going to spend $11,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, if it's worth 11,000, there's a.

[Jade Warshaw]

Whole bunch of people will, my friend, because they're in your situation too. What about a parent or family member?

[Josh]

Nope. Unfortunately, no.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so here's what I would tell you. I would start if I'm you in this situation, I would start with a couple of different areas. Number one, I would walk in this evening to the local AA meeting. Have you done that yet? Yeah. Okay. I would ask around and tell them I've got a gap. And my guess is there's people who would say, I, I know X, Y and Z. I know this person. My church has a sponsorship program. There's a, there's, there's gap payment here. We can help figure this out. I would start there. Okay.

[Josh]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And this is you being super, super vulnerable. It sounds like you're so sick of all this that you're kind of done giving a crap. Is that fair?

[Josh]

Absolutely.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. The second thing is I'm going to give you three months of free BetterHelp. I want you to talk to a licensed counselor. I want you to hang on the line here, and I want you to make sure that just full stop rehab is the right move, the right next move for you.

[Josh]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. They might say, hey, I want you to go every day to a meeting in the evening and in the morning for 30 days. And let's circle back before we make this list, this entire. This big leap. Okay?

[Josh]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

The third thing is I want you to be honest, deeply honest with what you can part with right now. Because here's what I'm trying to avoid. I don't want you to come out on the other side of a 30 day in treatment program or a 28 day outpatient program and have that clarity of mind, that sobriety. The light is on and then that credit card bill hits you right in the mouth. That's what I want to avoid at all costs.

[Josh]

And that's another thing I'm worried about. Finances. Bills keep coming.

[Jade Warshaw]

They do keep coming.

[Josh]

Even been looking into detoxes, and it's still about that same number, just for like a week.

[Jade Warshaw]

Detox, they do. I want you to go to a meeting and I want you to be vulnerable and raise your hand and say, I'm stuck. Okay. Yep. If you tell me after 30 days of knocking on every door, put your car on Facebook Marketplace and see if you can get $6,000 for it or 7,000 buck or 11,000 bucks, that's going to give you six grand and you go buy a $5,000 car with 250,000 miles on the truck. I get it. Not pretty. This is a band Aid. I get it. If you tell me you can't, then I. I would say, then go to a local. A local credit union and figure out that gap. Or I would work out before you did that. I would see if you could work out a payment plan with the rehab place. Probably they won't do that, but it'd be worth a shot.

[Josh]

Oh, no, no, they will. They will do that. That's why I was no interest, but that's why I was on the call, because I've already got other debt racked up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I'm okay with that one if the last option. And listen to me, this is not a pass for you just to go. Sweet. I can go. I want you to exhaust every avenue because my brother Jade and I have sat with people, they walk out, and then reality is a cold dose of water. And it's easy to fall right back into old habits when old fists hit you in the same mouth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Because even if you can find a couple of thousand, like, even if you can find a couple of thousand from selling things, you visit a local church and say, hey, is there any, like, is there a Ministry here. What. What can I do? Can I serve to earn this money? Like, whatever you can figure out, even if you're closing that gap with cash in some. In some way that's going to be.

[Jade Warshaw]

Worth it, or if you got two weeks and you decide, I'm going to wake up at 5 o'clock every morning and drive Uber and I am going to. I'm going to. I'm going to work like mad and earn this money. Right? There's gonna be some little victories there. But if you tell me, hey, man, I. I can't. I'm underwater right now. I'm wanting to go to rehab because I'm drinking every day and I can't stay clean. I get that and I honor that. Okay. But I want you to go to a meeting tonight and I want you to raise your hand and ask that question. Okay?

[Josh]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you can. If the hospital where you are doing your inpatient rehab is willing to say there's an interest free option here for the gap, then I'm okay with that as a last DEFCON resort option. If a clinical supervisor has said your only option is rehab.

[Josh]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So I want you to hang on the line. I want you to walk through. I want you to. When you go through the betterhelp, I want you to click on struggling with substance abuse, struggling with alcohol, and I want you to put in the notes trying to make a decision on whether I need to go to rehab, go to inpatient inpatient rehab counseling. And then when they reach out, they're going to walk you through an assessment and y'all can make that decision together. Is that cool?

[Josh]

Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate everything.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, I need you to hear. I need you to hear me say I'm really proud of you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Me too.

[Josh]

Thank you.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is real.

[Josh]

Thank you very much.

[Jade Warshaw]

You've been. You've been drowning for a long time, haven't you? Yeah. Yeah, we're done.

[Josh]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are we done with all the drinking?

[Josh]

Yes. I mean, I want to be. I mean, I'm tired of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good. Hey, I'm gonna put a little star on this. I want you to call back in 30 days with your 30 day chip, and we're gonna celebrate you on the air. All right. I'm proud of you, my man. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

[Caller 2]

Hey, guys, George Camel here. Let's be real. If I had a dollar for every time Ramsey Solutions gave away free money, I'd probably be rich enough to give out my own cash. Prizes. And here's another one for you. We're giving away $20,000 at the Take Control of youf Money livestream on January 23rd. I don't know about you, but I'm definitely signing up for this event. Plus, my friends Dave Ramsey, Jade Warshaw, and Rachel Cruz will be there, too. We'll be talking about how you can make real progress on your money goals. Maybe you're wanting to knock out some debt. Maybe you're ready to start saving for a house. Maybe you want to build for the future. Or maybe you just want to stop cringing every time you need to buy eggs. This livestream is for you. It's your time to ask us whatever you want about money. It'll be kind of like a New Year's party. Money pep talk and a live Q and A all rolled into one amazing event. Plus, if we're lucky, a little comedy on the side. And no, I will not be charging for my dad jokes. So listen, if you're ready to take back control of your money or you just want a chance to win some extra cash, join us. Go sign up [e-mail] livestream. That's ramseysolutions.com/livestream.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're listening to the Ramsey Show. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. I'm Jane Warshaw. We're taking your calls. We mostly take your calls. It's a live show. But today we have a question of the day that's coming to you from why Refi? Today's question of the day brought to you by why Refi. So now we don't recommend refinancing on everything, but for distressed private student loans, there is why Refi. We trust why Refi? Because they help you with low fixed rate, fixed interest rate. They help you get a low fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt. Learn [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, today's question comes from Wyatt in California. Wyatt writes, my wife recently asked for a divorce, but she wants to stay married until she finishes her MBA degree.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

To complicate things, my family. Oh, nice. To complicate things, my family had agreed to pay for her degree when she started the program as an early inheritance for me. This guy is an honor student. I think she only wants to stay for the free tuition. What should I do?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If I had a beard, I'd be stroking my beard on this one, because this is ridiculousness.

[Jade Warshaw]

I. I don't mean this to be mean, Jade, but we're doomed just as a society.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is bananas, bro.

[Jade Warshaw]

Your wife left you. She asked you for divorce.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's a. There's a word. Oh, boy.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, dude, listen.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not good if you say this.

[Jade Warshaw]

You got to bounce with an ounce. You have to brush your shoulders off. She left you. She left you. And there's so much complexity here. Yes. Don't pay for the wife that's leaving you, that's divorcing you. Don't let her take part of your inheritance. This whole thing's such a mess. Yes. I would stop tuition payments. How about that? Let's just start there, for God's sakes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. If you're not, the gravy train ends, like, at that point. Like, if you. If you get divorced, you don't get to say, oh, and will your parents please still pay for my. You know, it's like being at the.

[Jade Warshaw]

Golden Corral, and you cash out, and you get your ticket, and you walk into the parking lot, and then you see him bringing. Bringing prime ribs out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

You don't get to go back.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wait a minute.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wait, wait, wait. I'm back A truck up here and take all the prime ribbon. Dude, you cashed out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Cashed out. Somebody else gets the. The primer.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. You left. It's Golden Corral, baby.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is. This is a. This is a boundaries conversation, I'm guessing, John.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, there's clearly a lot here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She can. You don't. You don't get both sides of. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. If she says, I want a divorce, all right, boom. And I definitely wouldn't drag the in laws into it.

[Jade Warshaw]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That just makes it even more messy.

[Jade Warshaw]

And if your in laws hear the story and they say, well, that's cool, we still want to pay for her for her degree. A, they're. They can do what they want to do. It's their money. And B, if it is part of an inheritance, then it will come out of a divorce settlement. So it's not just going to be free money. It will have to be disclosed as part of a divorce settlement. And y'all will figure that out in court. Hurt. And I'm heartbroken for you, Wyatt, that your wife wants to divorce you. I hate that for you, man. I just hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, this is. This sucks. Yeah. And if I could be ridiculous for a moment. Her timing was terrible. I mean, like, she must feel some type of way. Like, if I'm like, gosh, let me. I want to finish my mba, but I don't want to tell him.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, there's also the other side of this that, like, Wyatt's cheated five times. Yeah, I'm out. But I'm getting my, my, my.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We don't know. We. That's the thing about these questions. We never know. You could, you know, throw a lot of different wrenches into this subject, but at the end of the day, it's like, if you say you're done, you're done.

[Jade Warshaw]

Here's the best way to think of it. The moment somebody says, I'm divorcing you, from this point forward, this is no longer a romantic relationship. This is a business transaction, period. It has gone. We. We got married. We signed a marriage contract for this reason. This is how we're going to separate. Everything is a business proposition from this point forward. When somebody throws the D word and says, I'm divorcing you. Cool. Then that's how we're handling this moving forward.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I ask you a question?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm not trying to trip you up in any way. So on the show.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's do it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

On the show, we talk a lot about money, obviously, and we always say that, you know, one of the main causes of divorce, money fights and money problems. You're a person who's in this knee deep all the time is where does it start?

[Jade Warshaw]

I. I think we. I mean, I think it's both. And so we say money is a symptom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm saying that because we've had two of these in a row.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of just whacked out. Just what's going on here.

[Jade Warshaw]

We say that money is a symptom, and I think it continues. So let's take abuse and let's take just evil and put off to the side that's outside the bell curve in this conversation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's abusive people and there's terrible people. We know that. I don't think most people are abusive. Most people are terrible. I think most people are unintentional, and they have a picture about what they want their life to look like, and they just assume that the person next to them that they married is going to absorb into that picture, not knowing that that person has a picture of what their life is going to look like and vice versa. And so here's a good example. In my house is something so tiny that happened recently. We have two dogs and then we just. I got my daughter a little. It's like a gremlin dog. So now we have cockapoo and they fight and scream and run around. I got to where dinner time was frustrating for me. It just felt like so much. And I wasn't being the dad that wanted to be. I was finding myself snippy. I was finding myself just like, hey, can y'all. Once we backed out and my wife and I, and she's like, hey, man, dinner's like a sacred time. We always just come here and exhale. It's where we laugh. It's these three dogs that we took from outside are running around underneath the table. We put them in a kennel now during dinner and man, I just made a clear choice, but it was unintentional. And what was happening was I didn't want to come to the table. My wife didn't want to be around a grumpy me. So it's easier. Hey, we're just going to grab. We're going to grab Chick Fil a on the way home, right? And so it happens by teeny tiny degrees and turns out it's the dumb dogs running around at the table. So it's a lack of intentionality and a lack of saying, hey, this is a sacred thing for us. You want this, I want this. How do we choose to make this happen? Oh, we can just do that. That's easy. It's a lack of intentionality. When you're not about your money, then suddenly, I'm buying this. You're buying this, you borrowed this. I want to buy this. And now we have two different worlds, but we live on the same couch. And then it implodes. Right? So money fights are a symptom of two people that have not aligned their pictures and out of line their values. And if not committed, we're going to forego short term pleasure for a long term vision of what the world we want to build together.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it sounds like they've chosen the wrong enemy to direct their. That's right, their guns at.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. Yeah. And so going back to the previous call, you make a choice, you make teeny tiny choices along the way that gets you this final choice. You do that with your money, you do that with your physical health. Health. Right. Like my buddy Lane Norton didn't just wake up one day and win Worlds. He started 20 years ago lifting weights. Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So then every day it's the same thing getting back. Right?

[Jade Warshaw]

That's the beauty is if you will Own. You and I have both made choices to choose a miserable marriage, then you can both make choices to choose something amazing. That's. That's what's where the. That's where the. The light and the darkness is. You can choose something else. It's. Nothing is inevitable. Unless. Unless outside of abuse, nothing's inevitable. You can choose something different together. It's amazing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love that, John. See, this is this. You add a lot to the show, John, and. And I love picking your brain on stuff like this because you just have a different perspective.

[Jade Warshaw]

And by the way, I believe in people.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You do?

[Jade Warshaw]

Really do, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I like that. I like getting to host with you. I have to. I kind of wanted to go to John for a minute, but I also want to let you guys know before this hour ends that this hour is about to end. If you're listening, you know, on your favorite platform, but if you want to keep watching the show and keep finishing this specific episode, keep hearing from John, keep hearing from me, you got to head over to the Ramsey network app in order to finish the show. If you're on the radio, you can just keep listening. It's still going to play. More calls are still coming up. We've got Christian from Madison, Wisconsin. We've got Carol from Sacramento. We've got a truck driver who's, you know, living out of his semi truck. Coming up, we've got a woman, Ashley. She wants to know if she should use the money that she has to get a car or to pay off debt. So we've got really great calls coming up. I'm gonna pick John's brain a little bit more. But again, the Ramsey network app is the only place that you're really going to get the full episodes of the Ramsey show like you used to. Like you're used to hearing. So you got to go over to the app if you don't know where it is. You can search Ramsey Network in the app store or on Google Play. That's the way to find it. And by the way, we're still working on the app. We're every day we're doing things to make it better, make that experience the best we can for you. We just started this, so it's kind of cool. You guys are in on the ground level and we're here. We're happy you're here with us. But again, don't miss what's coming up next. Head over to the Ramsey network app and it'll be me and John. We'll be in our same clothes, same shirt, same Plaid finishing up this show. Thanks for hanging out with us. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Warshaw]

What up? What up? It's Dr. John DeLoney from the Dr. John DeLoney show with some amazing news. The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey network app. This docuseries follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90 day journey to transform their lives. And I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up, Kelsey?

[Caller 1]

So I've lived with crippling anxiety for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

As long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life?

[Jade Warshaw]

What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that. All right, so you ready to jump in?

[Elizabeth]

I'm ready to jump in.

[Jade Warshaw]

We're gonna check in with Kelsey. 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I cannot even function because I am just crying. My mom left us when I was 4.

[Elizabeth]

I truly felt like for a while I had no family.

[Jade Warshaw]

She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy. He triggers me a lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Scared of losing Paul. Scared of doing the wrong thing. Scared of not being enough.

[Jade Warshaw]

It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It is.

[Jade Warshaw]

Whenever somebody's playing whack a mole with their. When it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How do I get my inner child out of this relationship because I feel like she's running the show.

[Jade Warshaw]

One of two people that's supposed to never leave. Took off.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was this. How is this burden.

[Jade Warshaw]

Burden? That's right. To the one person who should carry it. All of it. Did you ever tell that little girl.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That it wasn't her fault I died? Don't know what to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

You either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you gotta choose to let this guy go.