The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work

Summary

The Ramsey Show

Episode: The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work
Date: January 7, 2026
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Hosts: Jade Washall, Sam Washall
Podcast Theme:
Empower listeners to take control of their financial lives, emphasizing that the only real “hack” to paying off debt is consistent, focused effort and hard work. Through real-life callers’ stories and expert advice, Dave and his co-hosts dismantle myths, address the emotional side of money, and offer actionable guidance on managing debt, building wealth, and overcoming financial setbacks.

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Main Themes

• Hard Work: The True “Debt Hack”
• Managing Urgent Debt Situations & Emotional Hardship
• Making Difficult Money Choices: Prioritization and Sacrifice
• Changing Behavioral and Emotional Patterns
• Practical Strategies for Homeownership, Side Hustles, and Entrepreneurship
• Navigating Complex Family and Business Financial Ties

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. The Only “Hack” Is Doing the Hard Work

Dave repeatedly reinforces that there are no shortcuts for paying off debt: discipline, sacrifice, honesty, and perseverance are required. Emotional grappling and mindset shifts are just as vital as practical tactics.

“The reason that we teach people to stay out of restaurants and stay out of vacations while they're in baby step two is total focus.” – Dave Ramsey [24:13]

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2. Handling Debt Crisis Under Stress

a. Caller Jade: Facing Credit Card Charge-Offs After Job Loss and Family Tragedy

• Situation: $40k in credit card debt, collections threats, job loss, recent miscarriage, and living paycheck-to-paycheck.
• Advice:
  • Don't panic about a “charge-off.” It doesn’t worsen credit already in bad shape or signal imminent legal action.
  • Negotiate only when funds are available. Collectors become more flexible over time—not less.
  • Focus on returning to financial stability before attempting settlements.
  • “You are not powerless, and don’t let urgency be set by creditors."
• Notable Quotes:
  • “Charged off does not mean anything...Your credit already is trashed.” – Dave [03:51]
  • “Don't let them be in control...All they want to do is take. They don't care about the fact that you lost a baby.” – Sam Washall [06:49]
  • “You probably could get the exact same deal or better two months from now.” – Dave [05:39]

b. Katherine: Laid Off Before Christmas, Concerned About Savings

• Situation: Job loss, $16k savings, military spouse, negative budget
• Advice:
  • Use emergency fund if absolutely required, and focus on immediate job replacement.
  • “Sit in the hurricane until the wind quits blowing”—hold tight, then assess damage and attack debt later.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “That's what the emergency fund is there for.” – Dave [16:23]

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3. Should I Vacation or Side Hustle During Debt Payoff?

a. Jesse: Company-Paid Cruise During “Baby Step Two”

• Situation: Paid workplace trip, wants to bring pocket money, is side hustling.
• Advice:
  • It’s less about rules, more about mindset and lasting behavioral change.
  • Minor expenses for a free trip are fine if strictly controlled—but beware “brownie pan” mentality: rationalizations that build bad habits.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “I'm going to do this. But I'm also going to make sure that the attitude and the angle of my heart is permanently changed.” – Dave [24:03]
  • “You have to reset this whole set of tapes that's running in your brain, man. Vocab rehab.” – Dave [27:56]

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4. Getting Unstuck From Emotional Patterns

• New Book Launch: Jade Washall’s "What No One Tells You About Money"
  • Purpose: Diagnose and name the hidden emotions (anger, guilt, shame) that sabotage financial progress and provide actionable ways to overcome them.

  • "The words that we use and the way we talk to ourselves ... reflects whether or not, you know, is your heart right on this." – Dave [26:56]

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5. When to Sell the House: The “House Hacking” Cautionary Tale

a. Chris: Engineer Turned Airbnb Landlord, Facing Losses and Uncertainty

• Situation: Bought expensive house with minimal down, tried house-hacking turned to Airbnb, lost money, resisting going back to engineering work.
• Advice:
  • Look at facts (“facts are your friends”), get a real estate agent for a market reality check.
  • Return to “solid ground”—get a stable job, sell the house if underwater, and rebuild.
  • Don’t let “sunken cost fallacy” trap you.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “The best thing to do is to return to the last time there was solid ground and retrace your steps.” – Dave [34:04]
  • “You cannot use your specialness card to try and violate mathematics.” – Dave [41:14]

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6. Family Finances & Ownership: Marriage, Business, and Unity

a. Luann: Should a Married Couple Split Business Ownership 50/50?

• Situation: Married, joining husband's construction business, wrestling over paperwork (50/50 vs. 51/49).
• Advice:
  • The spirit of partnership outweighs paperwork; legal splits mean less if your marriage is strong and unified.
  • “Sometimes you just gotta flick it [his power card] back down.” – Sam Washall [51:15]
  • Key Message: Prioritize marital unity over technicalities.

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7. Debt Payoff Strategies, Budgeting, and Mindset Shifts

a. Becca: Snowballing Debt and Side Hustle Power

• Situation: $92k debt, unsure whether to budget towards student loans in forbearance or focus on credit cards.
• Advice:
  • Always pay debt with the highest interest first (in this case, credit cards).
  • Visualize progress as a monthly number ($2,500/mo, not $92k total); focus on actionable “bite-sized” milestones.
  • Sell the car (“drive junk to get rid of the rest of this junk”).
• Notable Quotes:
  • “How quick can I plow through...what mathematical shovel can I use to shovel $92,000?” – Dave [57:48]
  • “The way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time.” – Dave [62:43]

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8. Homeownership: Reality Checks and Decision Timelines

a. John in LA: Is Homeownership Out of Reach?

• Situation: $200k income, can’t afford even fixer-upper in LA, questioning practicality.
• Advice:
  • It’s not wrong to rent for several years if it’s part of a strategy.
  • Focus on building savings, consider future career opportunities, and be honest about what's possible in expensive markets.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “Your math doesn’t care about your feelings.” – Dave [93:19]

b. Lucas in Arkansas (Question of the Day): How long is too long to save for a down payment?

• Advice:
  • Go “full throttle” saving for 2-3 years, then split efforts with investing if needed.

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9. Entrepreneurship and Side Hustle Scaling

a. Mike & Fiance: Buying the Farm Business from Former Employer

• Situation: Opportunity to buy a profitable horse farm under market value.
• Advice:
  • Scrutinize deal for pitfalls—if numbers really work, consider a profit-sharing payment plan to owner.
  • Don’t rush; structure the deal to mitigate risk.

b. Mike (San Diego): When to Go Full-Time with a Side Hustle

• Situation: 25, $175k salary, $100k side business with wife, considering quitting.
• Advice:
  • Stack cash while young; reassess after marriage, only quit day job when business income is stable.
  • Platforms can change—don’t assume current model will last 10 years.
  • Diversify skills; be ready to “land like a cat” if model shifts.

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10. Young, Broke, and Starting Out: Marry First, Then Build

a. Anthony: $800 Car Payment, Baby on the Way, Not Married Yet

• Situation: Low income, high car payment, unmarried, baby coming.
• Advice:
  • “Get married by Friday.” Financial and emotional unity is key; cohabitation without commitment is a trap.
  • Sell the car; buy only what you can afford, get incomes up.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “Get things in the right order from this point forward. So get married by Friday and then sell the car.” – Dave [120:26]
  • “There's a whole piece of research out there that talks about what's called the marriage advantage...Net worth at 35 is 10–11 times higher for married males.” – Dave [123:36]

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11. Cultural and Market News

• Stock market S&P up 16% in 2025, cumulative 67% over 3 years (2023-25).
  • Message: Ignore noise, be consistent and invest; don't let fear-driven news sabotage your plan.

  • “The only thing you hear on the news is when the world’s coming to an end...Meanwhile, I’m just the tortoise.” – Dave [67:43]

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Notable Quotes & Moments by Timestamp

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Moment | |-----------|---------|--------------| | 03:51 | Dave | “Charged off does not mean anything...Your credit already is trashed.” | | 06:49 | Sam | “Don't let them be in control...All they want to do is take.” | | 16:23 | Dave | “That's what the emergency fund is there for.” | | 24:03 | Dave | “I'm going to do this. But I'm also going to make sure that the attitude and the angle of my heart is permanently changed.” | | 26:56 | Dave | “The words that we use and the way we talk to ourselves...reflects whether or not, you know, is your heart right on this.” | | 34:04 | Dave | “Return to the last time there was solid ground and retrace your steps.” | | 41:14 | Dave | “You cannot use your specialness card to try and violate mathematics.” | | 67:43 | Dave | “The only thing you hear on the news is when the whole world's coming to an end...Meanwhile, I'm just the tortoise.” | | 93:19 | Dave | “Your math doesn’t care about your feelings.” | | 120:26 | Dave | “Get things in the right order from this point forward. So get married by Friday and then sell the car.” | | 123:36 | Dave | “Net worth at 35 is 10–11 times higher for married males.” |

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Important Timestamps

• 00:40–08:11 – Intense caller discussion: debt, charge-offs, crisis coping
• 13:00–18:22 – Job loss, emergency funds, when to touch savings
• 21:25–27:29 – Side hustles, vacationing during debt payoff, “brownie pan” metaphor
• 32:32–41:14 – House hacking gone bad, sunk cost fallacy, entrepreneurship reality checks
• 43:39–51:20 – Married business owners: splitting ownership, unity vs. paperwork
• 54:07–62:51 – Debt snowball, side hustles, attacking big numbers in small monthly chunks
• 86:40–94:07 – Young high-earner trying to buy in expensive LA; mindset, strategy
• 96:09–105:38 – Scaling a side hustle, balancing risk, stacking cash before quitting job
• 117:53–126:40 – Marrriage and money: Why family structure impacts long-term wealth

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Tone

Practical, direct, sometimes humorous and always compassionate. Dave and his team use a “no-nonsense,” tough-love approach but offer genuine understanding in times of distress. They balance behavioral insight, personal stories, and actionable steps, blending analytics with empathy.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• No hack replaces hard work, discipline, and honest self-assessment.
• Do not panic over threatening creditor language; time can work in your favor.
• Emotions drive money behavior as much as spreadsheets do—deal with both.
• Stack small wins; break big goals into digestible pieces.
• Major choices (housing, entrepreneurship, family) demand facts, not feelings.
• Never make permanent decisions under duress (job loss, early family crises).
• Marriage and unity greatly amplify long-term financial peace and wealth.
• Ignore media panic about markets—invest for the long haul.
• Don’t rationalize old patterns; transform your mindset before your money.
• There are no shortcuts—just character building, empowerment, and intentionality.

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For anyone struggling or stuck, this episode offers both tactical and emotional tools for forging a path out—one honest, focused step at a time.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Jade Washall, Ramsey personality number one best selling author, is my co host today. As we answer your questions, the phone number's trust 825-5225. Jade is in Memphis. Hi, Jade, how are you?

[Jade Washall]

Hi guys.

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay, so I am. We were in baby step two, but now we're in baby step one. And I got a notification that one of our credit cards is in threat of being charged off within 30 days. And so I don't really know what we should do. If I should take out a loan, ask friends for that money because they're trying to settle, or if I should just let it go to collection.

[Sam Washall]

How much is it?

[Caller]

It's 10,000. But they're letting. They want to settle for 4800.

[Sam Washall]

Okay. Do you have any money anywhere?

[Caller]

So I lost my job in October and I found out I was pregnant and then I lost the baby in December.

[Sam Washall]

I'm sorry.

[Caller]

And so we have less than the thousand dollars in savings and we're paycheck to paycheck right now.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Sam Washall]

What. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you went through that. What are you and your husband earning combined every month?

[Caller]

Well, so before, I mean my job, I. I got 60,000. So we, we took a $60,000 pay cut and he makes 50.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you back? Are you, are you getting a job? Have you found a position?

[Caller]

So I have got a new job. I'm a mental health therapist, but it's part time right now while I build clients. So I'm bringing home like anywhere from 500 to a thousand every two weeks.

[Sam Washall]

Okay. Okay, that's not, that's not too, too bad. Five hundred to a thousand every two weeks. Okay, so here's, here's what I'm thinking right now. You really are. You've. You've been through a lot very quickly and I, I applaud you for jumping back on your feet really quick. Is this $10,000? Is this the only debt you have? Is there more?

[Caller]

No. So we have two more credit cards. So 30 and then this 10. So 40. The other two were in payment plans for. So when I lost my job, I went into. I closed them and I went into payment plans with lower interest rates, but this one, they wouldn't work with us. And so we didn't have the money to pay it.

[Sam Washall]

Okay, tell me a little bit more about. I'm just trying to figure out what you can scrounge up. If you. There's anything you can sell, how quickly you can get this, or if you can even negotiate a smaller amount than the 4800. Likely not, but I would try it.

[Caller]

See, I didn't know if I should call and I should try that.

[Jade Washall]

I would not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not unless you. Not unless you have the money line, not unless you got them on.

[Sam Washall]

Is there anything you can sell off? Tell me about your cars.

[Caller]

So one car we own outright, and then one car we still have 10 left on. 10,000 left on.

[Sam Washall]

Okay.

[Caller]

And that's our main vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many kids do you have, hon?

[Caller]

We have one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And we have. And we pay for daycare. So she's four. So we pay.

[Dave Ramsey]

How quickly is your income going to ramp up, do you think?

[Caller]

I'm hoping within the month. So by February, we should get my back to my income. I get paid 50. I get paid 53 an hour. And I have 10 clients right now, so if I can get up to 20 clients, then I should reach that by February. But this will be charged off by the end of January.

[Sam Washall]

How much is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's stop. Let's stop a second. Okay? Charged off does not mean anything.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You already have a debt that has gone collection to collections. Your debt is already bad. Agreed.

[Caller]

Okay. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. When they charge it off, it simply means they are not going to count it on their books anymore because they don't think they're going to collect it. But it doesn't make your credit worse. Your credit already is trashed.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's bad. I just didn't want them to, like, sue us and Garner.

[Dave Ramsey]

They'll get around to that eventually. But charging it off, that is not a sign you're getting ready to get sued. How long ago did you pay the last payment on this account?

[Caller]

Probably September.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, You're. You're. I doubt you're in any danger. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care if they charge it off. Guess what? If they charge it off the next day, you talk to them, they'll take the 4800 because they still want their money.

[Jade Washall]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

The only difference is just. The only difference is just they're. They're coming up with these boogeyman in the closet. Oh, we're going to charge it off. No, please. What does that mean? No, please. What does that mean? Yeah, it doesn't mean anything, really. Okay, so let's not worry about it.

[Caller]

I don't want to be kicked while we're down.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know you could get sued, but even then you could settle the lawsuit for the same 4800. Okay. It's not like every day this gets later and later and later. The chances statistically of them collecting it is smaller and smaller. So they are more and more flexible.

[Sam Washall]

They'll settle for less and less, not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Less and less flexible.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's not like it's a one time, good time deal. This is a one time, okay, deal. And you probably could get the exact same deal or better two months from now when you guys are back on your feet.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think I'm just gonna say, you know, guys, I, you know, we just lost a baby, I've got a brand new job, we simply don't have the money. It's a very kind offer for 4800, but I don't have $4800. If I did, you probably wouldn't be late.

[Caller]

Well, I didn't know if I should stop paying the other two cards that were current on to try to make a deal with them or if I should.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, just let. I would just keep doing what you're doing and let's get back up on our feet and then let's get the debt snowball working and start paying those minimum payments you're paying. You can save up some money and call these people and say, hey, I got $4,000, I got $3,000. You want to take that? If they want to take it, fine. If not, hang up on them, call them back in two months, they'll do it then. And working your plan, working your debt snowball. But I don't think we're going to let them establish the urgency.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Matter of fact, I know we're not going to let them establish the urgency.

[Sam Washall]

I literally, when you're telling this story, Jade, it's funny because I literally wrote a similar about a similar instance in my book. And you're saying the same thing what you just said about, oh, I'm thinking of taking these other credit cards and not paying those and paying it to other people. You feel that because of the stress and they're calling you and they're blowing up your phone and you're trying to focus on other things and they're just inundating you with calls and offers. And Dave is right. Like, just do what you know to do. Keep those minimum payments going. Get on your feet and don't let them be in control. Because if you Let them be in control. All they want to do is take. They don't care about the fact that you need to buy groceries. They don't care about the fact that you lost a baby. They don't care about that. And so don't give them any more.

[Dave Ramsey]

Power and don't give them any ammunition. There's no sense in having a discussion.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's why I stopped making those payments. Cause they just wouldn't work with us.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then guess what? Now they're very flexible.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And guess what? Three months from now they'll become more flexible. Three months from now they'll be flexible again.

[Sam Washall]

Be like little gymnasts calling you up.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it.

[Sam Washall]

I'm gonna give you a copy of my book.

[Jade Washall]

Okay?

[Sam Washall]

Jade.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. Jade to Jade. Jade to Jade. Hook up here.

[Sam Washall]

Friend to friend. I never meet anybody with my same name. That's very. That's a very new thing for me. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

And with a question that you've been.

[Sam Washall]

Through, I know exact was meant to be on this publishing day.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go. The book comes out today. It's on the street. What no one tells you about money. The real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there and has talked to credit card people at the credit card time charged off. If you're waking up tired every morning, you don't need more caffeine.

[Jade Washall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Washall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Washall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Washall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Washall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Well, guys, we know there's a lot of chaos out there making you feel like you cannot get ahead with money. A lot of messages, a lot of voices saying it can't be done. But you have more control than you think. And then you're being told this year it's time to take back your money. Starting at our free EveryDollar livestream. That's this Thursday night. Jade and I will be hosting this and hundreds of thousands of you, probably millions, will be joining us. Thank you for that it's free. We're gonna give you the clarity in the middle of the chaos and we can show you actually how to take back your money, get ahead with money. And we're gonna be giving away $20,000 cash that night. Hello. No purchase necessary. Obviously. It's freaking free. Did I mention that? It's free. And all you have to do is enter the giveaway to sign up.

[Jade Washall]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

All you have to do to enter the giveaway is to sign up. So register right now. And that puts you in there for the giveaway and also sends you up to get all the links and everything so you can watch the free everydollar livestream. Jade and I will be doing it in front of a 2500 person audience right here in our Ramsey Event center this coming Thursday night. I'm looking forward to it.

[Sam Washall]

Me too.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

RamseySolutions.com livestream and I watched Jade do her portion of it the other day in practice rounds. And you guys, listen, I should charge you a lot for this, but it's free. I'm just saying, it's really, you're going to get some solid information, some things to help you cut through all the garbage that's out there. There's a lot of squawking out there. Have you noticed? And the only way you get rid of the squawking is to have a plan because then you quit listening to all the squawking and everybody's got a dadgum opinion about why you can't win. Have you ever noticed that? And they're all people that aren't winning, by the way. Hello, people that are winning. They don't, they don't write in the comments section.

[Sam Washall]

Good point.

[Dave Ramsey]

You ever seen successful people that stop and write stuff negative in someone else's comments section? They don't. And then your comments section, if you don't know, is not necessarily your YouTube page. It's just your life when you're sitting there saying something positive and they're going, oh, yeah, but don't you know about. And it's the little man can't get ahead and oh, it's all rigged. And the corporations, the corporations and the, and the taxes and the government and the inflation and Biden, Trump and oh, shut up. Seriously. See, that's the chaos and the voices, the squawking I'm talking about. We're going to help you with that this Thursday night for free. Ramseysolutions.com livestream be sure and jump in. And it's the free every dollar livestream. Katherine is in Dallas. Hey, Kathryn. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

Hey.

[Caller]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I was recently laid off, effective at the end of the month. And now me and my husband are trying to figure out what we should do with what we have in savings to kind of make that work the best for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What were you making?

[Caller]

I was making about 42, 000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Doing what?

[Caller]

As a legal assistant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And they laid you off after Christmas?

[Caller]

No, before Christmas.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that month.

[Caller]

The week before.

[Dave Ramsey]

The week before.

[Sam Washall]

I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you were working for Grinch? And Grinch. I mean, wow. I can't imagine if I was gonna lay somebody off the week before Christmas, I would do it the week before Thanksgiving just so I didn't do it the week before Christmas.

[Sam Washall]

Just give it some air. Oh, my God.

[Caller]

It came after they flew me out for a Christmas party.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh.

[Caller]

The week before.

[Dave Ramsey]

What did you do at the Christmas party, Katherine?

[Caller]

One free drink and went to my hotel.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry that happened. I'm sorry. Okay. This suc. Okay. Anyway, aside from their lack of quality timing. Let's see. So how's the job hunt going?

[Caller]

So I started it that night after a bottle of wine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. A bottle of wine. It's a good thing to sign, you know, start filling out your resume. After a bottle of wine.

[Caller]

Yeah. So I've got a couple of interviews lined up, and the goal, obviously, is to not have any laps.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go. There you go. So you got a little severance?

[Caller]

No, no severance.

[Jade Washall]

Oh.

[Caller]

They told me that the notice was unseveranced.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I see.

[Sam Washall]

So you're just trying. You don't want to have any lack of.

[Dave Ramsey]

No lapse.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. That's a good plan. All right. So how are you getting some nibbles?

[Caller]

I've got a couple of interviews lined up, and I hope that, like, again, like, I hope there's no lapse and that I hope that something, anything. I will do anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Can you cover. Can you not cover the lapse for one month on your husband's income?

[Sam Washall]

Yeah.

[Caller]

What's he make on my husband's income? He's military. So I think he puts down, like, if we are filling out a form, I think he puts down, like 70,000 a year is what he makes when we did. Because that night we did a breakdown of our expenses. If we changed absolutely nothing, we would be in the negative every month.

[Sam Washall]

How much?

[Caller]

It was like, a few hundred bucks because.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much do you. How much do you have in savings.

[Caller]

We have about 16,000 between the two of us. Actually a surrogate and had a miscarriage about partway through that process. So we have a decent amount of money in a separate account because I purposely did not want to spend it. That we have not touched.

[Sam Washall]

Aside from the 16,000.

[Caller]

No, that is the book.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so here's the deal. Here's the deal. Don't do anything. Just go get a job. And if you don't get one and you have a gap for 2 or $300, take the 2 or 300 out of 16,000 and then the next month you're back up to even, Right?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Sam Washall]

That's what the emergency fund is there for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Now you've got debt and other stuff though, right?

[Caller]

Yes, we do have debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

So for right now, we're not doing a total money makeover. We're just gonna sit here in the middle of the hurricane until the wind quits blowing. And that's when you get the new job. And then we will assess the damage. And that might be that you have to pay a couple hundred bucks out of the 1600 out of the 16,000 to float you for that one month till you get your paycheck going again. But I'm pretty Dad gum? Sure. Listening to you. You're gonna have a paycheck in a month.

[Caller]

I sure hope so.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, really, I think you are, don't you?

[Caller]

I want to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so if you don't. If you don't. If you don't, it costs you 200 bucks of your savings, right?

[Caller]

Yeah. It would cost us a couple hundred.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you don't. If you don't, the next month it costs you 200 more. That's 400 whole dollars out of 16,000. Whoop dee doopy.

[Sam Washall]

And if you start creeping up on two or three months, you could easily pick up a little silence.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, she's not gonna do that. She's gonna have a job because you've got too much going on here. You're going to get a job. So my point is you just don't do anything. And if you have to cover a little bit less than $1,000 out of the 16, it's no big deal, Right. Mathematically.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It just goes all with the fear of looking for a job and the pissed off of being mistreated and all that stuff mixes in and then the math quits being clear.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay. Because my husband and I disagree. He wants to pay things off and have money.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, but you can't, right?

[Sam Washall]

Now you gotta get right inside up first.

[Dave Ramsey]

As soon as you get back to work, the two of you need to combine your income, combine your debt, combine your savings and start the total money makeover and start getting, you know, save $1,000 and take the rest of that 16 and throw it at the debt, smallest to largest once you're moving again.

[Sam Washall]

And you know, I want to change your, your, your mindset on this a little bit, Katherine. And I know it's easy for me to say it on this side of things, but you gotta look at this as an opportunity instead of looking at it like, oh, man, I got fired. I got fired the week before Christmas and all these negative things. Maybe it's an opportunity for you to make more money than you've ever made and have a better job than what you had before in a more fulfilling workspace. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not a high bar to get better people to work with.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Sam Washall]

This could turn out to be the best thing that's happened to you, but you got to switch your brain into that mode and it's going to change the way this feels for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And note to self, don't fly out to next year's Christmas party. Wow.

[Sam Washall]

No bottle of wine before the interview.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they started budgeting and did that resume right after that first bottle of wine. We're going to get everything straightened out now, by gosh.

[Jade Washall]

Sam. Foreign. This show is sponsored by Better Help. As we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all the stuff you're carrying, all those things you think you have to do, all the past hurts and pains, along with your past guilt and shame. When the world feels heavy, it's important to look in the mirror and consider setting down that old weight and not carrying it forward into 2026. Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff, set it down, and move forward with clarity so you can focus on living the life you want to live in the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, I recommend BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the leading online therapy providers in the world, trusted by millions with an average rating of 4.9 stars out of 5. And it's easy to fit into your busy schedule because it's totally online to get started. Just answer a few easy questions and BetterHelp will connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can change therapists at any time for no extra cost. You can't feel lighter without leaving behind what's been weighing you down? Go to betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jesse is in Memphis. Hi, Jesse. How are you?

[Jade Washall]

I'm doing better than I deserve. How about you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just the same, sir. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

Good, good. Okay, so, little preface. I work for a great company and did fairly well last year. And so they were taking my wife and I on a cruise in February, along with a lot of the people who had also gotten the metrics. And I was just wondering, I'm in baby step two, and so I know I shouldn't be on any vacations or going out spending, but am I allowed to have an allotted side job to use on this vacation? And, yes, I get paid for it.

[Sam Washall]

Is it just you just.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, Pocket money. You're allowed to do whatever you want to do, Jesse, but, you know, what would we do if you're in baby step two? This cruise is not costing you anything.

[Jade Washall]

No, I get paid the whole time I'm gone. I get a room and board and the company vehicle down to the port.

[Sam Washall]

Okay, so just pocket money for meals or whatever.

[Dave Ramsey]

Should be included on the cruise, right?

[Jade Washall]

It is a little bit of money just for, like, excursions or to have a little fun. This is the only vacation that I'm quote, unquote, planning.

[Sam Washall]

So what if you planned. If you planned it out and you've looked at it, what do you think is the number of the amount of money you think you would need for it that you would spend?

[Jade Washall]

Oh, yes, we did it last year and I did like bare bones, so I didn't spend anything. And I know that we could do it again like that, but I don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Talk to me about. I don't ever get to go on vacation. I did a cruise last year.

[Sam Washall]

That's the plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, whining.

[Jade Washall]

Agreed. Agreed.

[Sam Washall]

Wait, let me. Let me get you back to your senses. How much debt do you have?

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so I got about 5 in consumer cards that started listening to y' all in November. So I've already cut that down from 7K. And then I got my car, and that's about 14.

[Sam Washall]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would go, Jesse, but what I would do is I want you to reframe this in your head. Okay? The reason that we teach people to stay out of restaurants and stay out of vacations while they're in baby step two is total focus. That I have one job and that's to defeat the debt. Because if I live like no one else later, I can live and give like no one else. I'm paying a price to win. Okay? And that's how you frame this decision in your head, Not Dave, I want to go on vacation. We're not gonna get to you on vacation for a long time and we went on a cruise last year. But come on, man.

[Sam Washall]

Wait, let me frame it to you later.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. No, I mean, really, you need to frame it up with. I'm going to do this. I don't need Dave's permission to do it. For sure. You're like a grown man and you hit your metrics. Okay, but I'm gonna do this. But I'm also going to make sure that the altitude and the attitude and the angle of my heart is permanently changed.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Away from the rationalizations and the justifications that allowed me to get into this mess in the first place.

[Jade Washall]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why we do this. Because we're trying to shock your spirit into saying you're not entitled to vacations or eating out. Those are entertainment, luxury items while you're broke, people. And I want people's spirit to be shocked. That's what happened to my spirit. I didn't have the option of doing it voluntarily. It was snatched from me because I was so stupid I went bankrupt. So I got you beat hands down on stupid. Right? And listen, I thought whining was a little known form of prayer, so I had whining down too, you know. But what I figured out is that you have to change the altitude, the attitude, the angle of your heart permanently regarding these things so you never again talk yourself into something that down deep, you know you shouldn't be doing. I think this is fine mathematically.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. Yeah. And on Jade's point of view, I just wanted to add this real quick. I am picking up a side job this year too, so doesn't matter.

[Dave Ramsey]

That should all go towards the death.

[Sam Washall]

It's still, it's, it's. What we're talking about is you set the boundary. And once if you have said to yourself, I'm getting out of debt, that's the priority. If you let these little things start sneaking past the goalpost more and more sneak past. It's like. It's like when you say, I'm not eating any sweets and then somebody makes the pan of brownies, well, already you've.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gone past because the pan is there. But then what do you do?

[Sam Washall]

You slice off a little piece and you Go, I'm just gonna have that little piece. Then you go back in and you slice off another little corner and another little corner. Before you know it, you've ate the pan of brownies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you following me around?

[Sam Washall]

I saw you. That's what we all do. We've all done it. And that's a great way to think of it. You got a pound of brown because they gave you the free trip. You get to decide how much you slice off. Don't slice any of it off. You already have. The pan is just sitting there.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know what we're doing. You have to set new neural pathways in your brain.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah, that's the real part that says.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm done with this crap. So I would go, but I'm going to your side. Hustle is to set the new neural pathways and go, I'm going to. But I'm going to be unbelievably disciplined about this slice.

[Sam Washall]

Yes, Very disciplined.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I know the danger is not the actual slice. The danger is I'm still going back to the brownie pan.

[Sam Washall]

Yes. Throw the pan away after this slice.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the thing. That's what it is. I mean, that's what we're trying to. You have to permanently change the way you talk to yourself about this. The words that you use out of the abundance of heart the mouth speaks, the Bible says. Very true. And so the words that we use and the way we talk to ourselves and even the tone that we use to ourselves about talking ourselves into or out of something reflects whether or not, you know, is your heart right on this. And that's the thing. So, guys, that's the lesson, the takeaway from Jesse's call. Cause it's a good call. And Jesse's obviously a good guy and he's obviously a high producing dude.

[Sam Washall]

And when you go out there, though, take a step further. What Dave just said. When you go out there, Jesse, what you can't do is, well, I can't spend any money. I can't do.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no. Poor mouthy.

[Sam Washall]

You have to form the words of what you want, which is. I'm choosing. Everything's a choice.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've chosen to be grateful that I do this, that the company gave me this, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to do it this year. Yes, because this year we're not going on vacation.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah, but paying off my debt is my priority.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Sam Washall]

And that's how you talk to yourself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Reset this whole set of tapes that's running in your brain, man. Vocab rehab, that's why we do some of the things we do, y'. All. It's like the. And what we're doing is the pendulum has swung too far to the consumer side, where he says, everything's okay. Just push the submit button, load the cart. Right, right. And I can impulse anything I want and I work so hard and I deserve. And all these things we tell ourselves. And all we're doing is swinging the pendulum back to the other side and go, you don't deserve nothing. Shut up. You're broke people, man.

[Sam Washall]

It's like you're quoting the book. Good job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your book? Yeah, the new one.

[Sam Washall]

The new one that's out.

[Dave Ramsey]

What no one tells you about money, the real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. It's the emotional part of this.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what we're dealing with. The neural pathways, the behavior shifts, all of those things. And the feedback loops you put for yourself one of the things that goes with this too. And Jay, I know you talked about this in there as well, indirectly, not exactly the way I'm going to say it, in other words. But one of the things I did, Jesse, when I was at your thing is completely different from your question, but it fits in the same bucket of stuff. I don't do things mechanically, tactically, with how I pay things that aren't automatically always getting me the discount.

[Sam Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So before there was online bill pay, because there was no online. I prepaid my utility bills to get the discount, to get the discounts, Prepaid to get the discounts. And I set it on an auto calendar. Right. I have automatic draft to this day on my checking account that goes straight into a mutual fund every single month, automatically out of my checking account so I don't accidentally forget it.

[Sam Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I have automatic discipline all the way through this. There was a guy out 100 years ago when one of my first best sellers called Automatic Millionaire, his name is David Bock. It was a best selling book. He said, just put everything on automatic so that you're automatically doing smart stuff out there.

[Sam Washall]

Automate smart. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you don't have to think about it. You don't have to built in discipline with the systems. Not like I'm going to grip my teeth and do this every time.

[Sam Washall]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's the same kind of thing. We're resetting how we view this. And what's the attitude, the altitude and the angle of my heart on this stuff?

[Jade Washall]

Very Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, every year I hear the same excuses for why people don't get the life insurance they need to protect their families. So this year, let's clear the air and look at the facts. Having 10 to 12 times your income on a 15 or 20 year plan is, in many cases just plain cheap. That amount of coverage lets your family keep the lights on and keep food on the table while they're grieving. Second, life insurance through your work is not enough, especially since these plans go away if you change jobs. You need to have your own policy so you're not without protection when your family really needs it. Third, stay at home parents need life insurance, especially those with young kids. People don't realize how quickly the costs add up without someone at home taking care of things. So no more excuses, folks. Get the protection your family needs. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. They've been my choice for all my insurance for over 25 years and are the only people I trust. Chris is with us in Denver. Hey, Chris, how are you?

[Jade Washall]

I'm well. Thanks for taking my call, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure, man. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

So I used to make good money as an engineer, and I was on Baby Step 4 Before I knew what the baby steps were.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Jade Washall]

Then three years ago, I made what I realize now, two major mistakes in a row. I bought the biggest house I could buy with 3% down in PMI, thinking that house hacking would be easy. I'm now doing Airbnb. And then a few months after that, I quit my job because I was miserable there, thinking I had enough savings. I can give you some financial details, but I'm wondering if you think I should sell my house.

[Sam Washall]

Tell us more. What's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, Tell us more.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, so I quit my job, and then I realized that I would not be making my mortgage if I were to do house hacking. So I. I pivoted and started doing Airbnb. Okay, and where are you living to renovate. During this time? I was in the house. During renovations. I was living in the house. Sorry. Yeah, I was living in the house. And then while I was Airbnb, while I Airbnb my house, I was living with my friends that have a couple of kids, and I was helping them.

[Sam Washall]

Oh, gosh.

[Jade Washall]

Babysitting.

[Sam Washall]

And.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Jade Washall]

I am 37.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, sometimes if you wake up from a nightmare and you're standing knee deep in the swamp, the best thing to do is to return to the last time there was solid ground and retrace your steps. And so that would, in this case, sound like get a job as an engineer and sell the house.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you would have your life back.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

What.

[Sam Washall]

What prevents you from doing that in your mind?

[Jade Washall]

I was interviewing for some engineering jobs in 2025. It was difficult to come back after taking some years off. And I also know that I'm not suited for a 9 to 5 now, and I'm pursuing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you not suited for a 9 to 5? What's wrong with you?

[Jade Washall]

That's a great question.

[Sam Washall]

Are you trying to say that you're entrepreneurial?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I believe so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're suited for. You don't want to do it. Okay. I don't blame you for that. I don't blame you for that. I'm entrepreneurial, too, and I wouldn't want to be trapped somewhere. I don't have an issue with that. But. So what we're saying is not suited for. Is not the right phrase. What we're saying is it's not preferable for you.

[Sam Washall]

But right now. Right now, you're not really in a phase where you can do exactly what you prefer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. Preference is no longer a point. You're neck deep in quicksand.

[Jade Washall]

So I'm wondering if. If I give you some numbers if you think I am in quicksand. So in 2024, I broke even with my mortgage with Airbnb, and then in 2025, I was negative 10 or 15,000 with my Airbnb.

[Sam Washall]

Is the Airbnb where?

[Dave Ramsey]

Does this sound like it's fun to you? None of this sounds fun to me. If this was a business unit at Ramsey, we would close the thing and call it failed.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. I'm wondering if an alternative is. Yeah, maybe.

[Sam Washall]

Why are you reluctant to. Why, hey, why are you reluctant to sell the house? Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just don't want to get. You don't want to admit that this screwed up.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I think I might be falling into sunk cost fallacy.

[Sam Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, definitely. 100% US.

[Sam Washall]

Tell us the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you sell the house for as much as you owe on it?

[Jade Washall]

Yes, I believe so. I put about 100,000 into it. Renovating it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you lose that? I mean, what would the house sell for?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, the. So I'm looking at Zillow and Redford right now. I bought it for 650. Zillow saying 650, 15, Redfin saying 580.

[Sam Washall]

Oh, so you're not going to get the money out of it, but you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Put a hundred down or you put 100 in it after you bought it for 650.

[Jade Washall]

100 into it after buying it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you owe 7. You have $750,000 invested in a house that's worth 600. 600,000.

[Jade Washall]

You know better than I did.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, is that what you're telling me?

[Jade Washall]

That's. I don't know if I got an appraisal, if it would be worth more. I'm guessing it would be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, but I mean, you're telling me you paid $650,000 for it, plus you put 100 into it, meaning you have 750,000 in this house. Correct.

[Jade Washall]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you don't think it's worth anywhere near that, is what you're telling me?

[Jade Washall]

I don't know.

[Sam Washall]

Get a real estate agent. Go, go, go. On our site, you need to go to Ramsey Solutions.com and just in the box, type in real estate agent. It'll take you to go. And you need to have somebody come out there. Okay, and what did they say? What would they list it for based on what they saw?

[Jade Washall]

I started doing that step, and then I was like, I'm going to talk to Dave directly.

[Sam Washall]

Facts. And now I'm telling you, go do it. See it through so you can see what the actual numbers are.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to have numbers. Facts are your friends. You're in trauma, and you need to sell this thing if you can. And you need to retrace your steps and get back on solid ground. And then from there, think about how you can come up with some career choices after you're making a living again. How much money do you have in the bank in retirement or say not retirement, non retirement investments?

[Jade Washall]

Probably like about 10,000.

[Sam Washall]

10,000?

[Dave Ramsey]

You got to get a job, man.

[Sam Washall]

Well, since you find the work you're wired to do, because I think you don't know what you want to do, and I think you're just kind of coasting. And this idea that you might be an entrepreneur, I'm glad that that's so. But we need to get some, some beef around that and figure out what that's going to be in the meantime. Yeah, we'll send you the book. But you also just need to get a job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So the first thing you're suited to do is buy food, lights and water. The second thing you're suited well to do is pay your stinking bills. The third thing you're well suited to do after you've done those two things is find something that is a style of work that you enjoy, meaning entrepreneurial. And more freewheeling than in a 9 to 5. But you don't really have a lot of choices right now, man, because you've done screwed this up. Hello. Yeah, you've made a mess. And so you got to get the shovel out. The barn is full of poop. Today is J O B. Yeah, there's some shoveling that needs to be done here. So you got a mess. Wow. So you do not get to, as an adult, boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, do something that you saw on TikTok. That feels fun or good or well suited, whatever the phraseology we want to use is when the mathematics around it don't math 100%. That's called. You know, you can't.

[Sam Washall]

That's not reality.

[Dave Ramsey]

The math does not form to your desires.

[Sam Washall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

The math does not form to your suited. The math forms to the math.

[Sam Washall]

The math. When Sam and I were getting out of debt, we knew we wanted to start a business. But that takes time, right? You gotta build it up. And so in the meantime, you have to work and you have to do the things that close the gap so that the math maths. So you can continue to accomplish your goals financially while you accomplish your goals career wise. You have to do it all at the same time. You can't just go, well, I want to be an actress or, well, I want to own a business and I'm not going to do anything until I have that success. That's not real.

[Dave Ramsey]

God designed me to be on the stage. Good. And in the meantime, that means you're also destined to wait tables. That's what that means every time. I mean, we're in Nashville. How do you get the next country music star's attention? Waiter. That's exactly how you get it, right?

[Sam Washall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, I mean, you know, there's calluses that are involved in these things. Okay, yes. You know, God designed me. I'm suited for. I'm good. Me too. We all are wonderfully made. That's why we have finding the work you're wired to do that we're gonna send to Chris. Okay, that's all great, but you don't get to use this specialness card to try to violate mathematics. It just. It'll destroy your life. It's too harsh. It's mean out there, boys and girls. Mean out there. After the holidays, a lot of people start feeling budget pressure and it's a wake up call to get intentional. So listen, don't fall for buy now, pay later cell phone plans that drag you back into debt boost mobile keeps it simple with no contracts and no nonsense. Keep the phone you already own and pay just 25 bucks a month forever for unlimited data, talk and text. That's real long term value and real peace of mind. So budget like you mean it and go to boostmobile.comramsey today to make the switch. That's boostmobile.comramsey restrictions apply.

[Sam Washall]

See boostmobile.comramsey for details.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washall Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and author of a brand new book that lands in stores today. What no one tells you about your money. She's my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Luann is in Indianapolis. Hi Luann, how are you?

[Caller]

I am doing better than excellent Mr. Dave.

[Jade Washall]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just the same. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I got kind of an interesting one for you. My husband and I run a construction company together. He started the business in 2018 before we met which was 2021, engaged in 2022 and married in 2023. I help him with some aspects of the business but I'm not totally 100% full time with it just yet. I still have a full time job on the side or not on the side. It's the main job for me unfortunately.

[Jade Washall]

But.

[Caller]

Right now my current access in our bank's finances for the businesses as a signer because the bank I guess needs me to be listed as an owner with a state which wasn't a problem until recently. My husband wears many hats and doesn't need to take care of the minutia of running a business like fixing business associate debit cards for our team members. So I went into the bank to help an associate with their debit card fix their PIN and I wasn't allowed to because I wasn't an owner. So I asked them what we needed to do. I needed to file through the state, all that fun stuff. We asked our CPA got some advice on what to do and he told us the things that we needed to do. One of those things was we needed to assign business ownership percentage. Here's where my question comes in. As a married couple following the biblical principles, I said 5050 because we are one flesh, we do this thing together. And that's just where my mind and my heart was at. My husband has his business, what I call business glasses and hearing aids in so his mindset was thinking business and he came back with 5,149. And that didn't sit right with me. We talked about it, something came up, we had to table it. And so my mind was kind of racing. I was emotional and so I went to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me ask you this, Let me ask you this.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Regardless of the percentage that's on the piece of paper, how will the two of you treat this business?

[Caller]

We treat it as we both own it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna treat it as 50. 50 regardless of what's on the paper, I bet. Aren't you?

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, it's kind of what we do now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I kind of think. You do now. I kind of think that's the way you're all both. You were in agreement until he went. Well, that's a little weird. Okay, so I'll give you an example. I, I, we have several LLCs that I own 0% and Sharon owns all of it.

[Jade Washall]

Oh.

[Dave Ramsey]

In case some idiot decides that Dave Ramsey's got a target on his butt and he finds an idiot lawyer to help him.

[Caller]

Makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. And you know how much I'm worried about that. About, about, about Sharon having 100% of it. Not at all. Because I told her if she leaves, I'm going with her.

[Jade Washall]

Yes.

[Caller]

You're stuck together, period.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it. So I mean, I think the spirit of your marriage is really what matters in this discussion, is what I'm saying. Right. So I couldn't care less what's on the paper. I think your 50. 50 is the spirit. And when he said 51 49, it violated your spirit. It's like, what, more than you were actually worried about him, quote, being in charge? Because we all know he's not in charge. He's not doing the details. You are. You already covered that. And he knows that. Right. But it's as if he wanted to own, you know, have that one little trump card somewhere in case he thought he could flex at some point. Haha. That's funny. But you know, I mean, this is kind of the way this went down. Am I missing something?

[Caller]

No, it was more so like he's, he's been married before, so he understands things happen and so his mindset was sort of protective mode.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It won't matter if 4151 49. If things go down, he's going to have to take care of you anyway and it's going to look suspiciously the same.

[Caller]

And I had a feeling this was going to be the answer because I started thinking about it. It's just, it's splitting hairs because all I need to do is have some ownership to change debit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You already had practical, spiritual ownership, and for that matter, legal, because he would have had to deal with the asset if he owed 100% of it. In the event of a divorce, it's got to be on the plate. It's up there to get cut in half, just like everything else is. Just like his 401k has got his name on it if he works in corporate America. But guess what? You're going to take a big bite out of it. In the event of a divorce, the wife is. Hello. Even though your name's not on it. So that's the same exact thing. So he's not. You don't get clear of the worst case scenario with this part of the discussion. You get clear of this part of the discussion with a prenup if you want to go that way, or a postnup in this case, which is really hairy. So, no, I, I think as long as the two of you are in spirit, we own everything together. We're doing life together. We're going forward together. I don't care what the paper says.

[Caller]

Right. And I mean, does it really matter what the paper says? And the other thought was, in case something happens to him, continuing to let the business run smoothly, as a 1% owner, I could still do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But 1 49% right now on that LLC, I'm talking about if, if my wife passes away in a car wreck, I don't have any ownership in that. Now, I have a will and she has a will and an estate plan. It's instantly mine and I've got control over it, but I don't have the bank. I've got to take documentation to the bank to start cashing check. I'm on the checking account, but I mean, if I wanted to close that thing down, I've got to, you know, I've got to bring documentation and death certificates and stuff now because I'm not, I'm not even on the ownership of it at all.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I've still got all that crap to deal with. It's just your worst case scenarios are always worst case scenarios. So the big deal is, are we okay in our marriage relationship and are we aligned on how we view marital assets, that it's ours, as you said. And you clearly articulated that, Luann, and beautifully, by the way, good job. So, I mean, do you have Sam and you have a business?

[Sam Washall]

We do. And there's things, especially now, that I'm not part of it, that I'm not part of it. But I also know that if something happened to him, all of that I would be able to have then have access to whatever it is and it would be willed to me. And all I know, like he said 5050 in spirit. I think what really bothered you is what Dave said that he said it in a technical way and it had you questioning if you guys view yourselves the same way. And I would just ask about that at that point. It's really not about the business. It's really not about the money or anything like that. It's just, hey, when you said that, that just that hurt my feelings because I thought that we were 5050 and it kind of made it feel like you were going for some power there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ooh, good call.

[Sam Washall]

You know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it was kind of a flex.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah, it was a little flexed.

[Dave Ramsey]

I had this before I had you.

[Sam Washall]

Sometimes you just gotta flick it, flick it back down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, vicious.

[Sam Washall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

CHM is perfect if you're self employed.

[Sam Washall]

Starting a business or in between jobs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it gives you options without those.

[Sam Washall]

Out of control COBRA costs. And CHM isn't insurance. It's a community of believers coming together.

[Dave Ramsey]

To share medical bills and pray for one another.

[Sam Washall]

That's real peace of mind.

[Caller]

You're not just sharing costs, you are.

[Sam Washall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Well, big news guys. We mentioned it earlier. Jade Washoff's new book, what no One Tells yous About Money is officially here. You get your copy at [e-mail] store. Jade, what's this book about?

[Sam Washall]

This book is helping you diagnose the emotions that have been keeping you stuck running in the background that you didn't know were there. Things like anger and guilt and shame and frustration. I'm going to help you diagnose it, call it out, and then I'm going to show you the way through it so you can finally use those emotions to help you instead of hold you back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get your copy right now. Ramseysolutions.com store or anywhere great books are. So Becca is with us in Denver. Hi, Becca, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi.

[Jade Washall]

I'm good.

[Caller]

How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I had a strategy question. So I am in baby step number two. I am 35, single, paying off a good amount of debt, and I had a question about my student loans. I'm about 46,500 in student loan debt, but they're technically in forbearance. And I guess my question is I've seen some horror stories of people opening up their student loan accounts and oh my gosh, they've doubled or whatever because of interest. But my question is, is it worth it to budget a specific amount to my student loans even though I technically don't have a minimum on them right now and use whatever that amount could be towards? My credit card is my big focus right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I get your concern, but you're not going to make any extra progress by doing that. You're going to slow down your progress is all the math is exactly the same. Actually, it's a little better if you pay it on the credit card because the credit card is a higher interest rate. Let's say you were going to give $100 to the student loan and the interest rate on it's 5%. And instead you put the 100 DOL on the credit card and the interest on that's 24%. Well, obviously the $100, you know, you saved more interest by reducing the 24% account. Agreed.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so it's mathematically incorrect to do what you're talking about, but I'm not as worried about that as I am that I just want you to pound that credit card with viciousness and then open up the smallest student loan and pound it with viciousness when you get to it. And the debt snowball.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. I'm about in total in debt. I'm about 92,400 in debt. I have about 3,000 in medical from an ER visit. My credit card is at like 16 5. My car is at 26. 6.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

I work in ministry. I make about $76,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got an awfully expensive car.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, okay.

[Caller]

Yeah, my car payment is like 543.

[Sam Washall]

What's your car worth?

[Caller]

That's. I'm not good with car stuff, if I'm being honest with you. It's a 20. 21 Infiniti QX50.

[Sam Washall]

That'd be my homework for you tonight is to go on Kelley Blue Book and see what it's worth. And if it's, you know, if you, if you're not upside down or hardly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Upside down, get a hooptie for a while and start pounding and not have a $500 car payment for a while. I don't want you to drive junk the rest of your life, but I'd love for you to drive junk so you can get rid of the rest of this junk.

[Sam Washall]

Because with that 543 back in your pocket, you'd be finished with that medical debt very quickly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Boom, boom, boom.

[Caller]

I, and I have taken on because I am serious about my credit card debt. I actually have two other, with my full time job, actually have two other part time jobs now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Jade Washall]

Like at the grocery, at the grocery.

[Caller]

Store, just doing some shopping. And then I have friends who opened up a business so I'm helping them on the weekend.

[Sam Washall]

Good. So every month? Every month. What are you bringing in? Do you know?

[Caller]

Both part time jobs. I actually just kind of started. I'm hoping between the both of them per month I can make like maybe like 500 at one per month and then 600 at the other. Just because I'm just doing them on the weekend.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's good. Okay, so here's. You're not afraid of hard work, focusing on this. These are all really, really good signs that you're going to win. Okay. And so what I'm trying to do is how quick can I plow through? What mathematical shovel can I use to shovel $92,000? That's what I'm looking at. And so If I do $30,000 a year, it's three years, that's $2,500 a month.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If I sold the car, it's two years. And that's how my brain starts thinking. Because I want to be free. Because if you didn't have a single payment in the world, including these student loans hanging over your head that you're not making payments on right now, but you're worried about building up. But if you didn't have any of this in your background, your freedom in the spirit to do ministry would be completely different. Would you agree with me on that?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Washall]

I actually like the thinking behind that and I want to like double click on it. When you're looking at a high number of debt, like in your case, 92,000. Some folks have 150,000. Sam and I had 400, you know, 60,000. What you have to do is focus on that monthly number because it's overwhelming to say I have $92,000 of debt I need to pay off. But if you reverse engineer it and you've already done the math to say if I pay $2,500 a month, I'm out in two years, then the only thing you need to focus on is $2,500 a month. I got to make $2,500 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

On the side jobs.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah, the extra is what I'm saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we got 1100 on the side job. So that means we only need out of our budget.

[Sam Washall]

X.

[Dave Ramsey]

And which means we might be able to do 3,500.

[Sam Washall]

Right. But that smaller number, that's a lot easier for your brain to break down and go after than 92,000. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Sam Washall]

So it's a much. It's easier to digest for you, and then you can actually go for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then what we're going to do is we're going to get on a tight budget. Increase income, which you've already done the increase income part. We're going on beans and rice. Rice and beans. We're going to list these debts regardless of interest rate, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments, which is what generated your call on everything. Nothing on the student loans right now, and cut up the credit cards. And we're going to attack that smallest debt, which is probably one of those stupid little medical bills. We're going to pay off a whole bunch of those in month one, and then in month two, we're going to start hammering this credit card like it's evil. And you're going to start seeing Samuel L. Jackson on the TV and start yelling at him. Start yelling at him. What's in your wallet? My wallet's got cash in it. Hello.

[Caller]

With my medical bills. With my medical bills. I'm actually. I'm not as worried as with the medical bills, because my employer actually, I have an hsa and they contribute to it very generously. So I kind of. Not that I don't count it. Of course I do, but I'm like, oh, that's another account that I. When the money comes in, then I.

[Jade Washall]

Just spend from that.

[Dave Ramsey]

When does the money come in?

[Caller]

I contribute to it monthly, and then they contribute a nice portion quarterly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So a little free money. We're still gonna. We're gonna take that free money, but we're not gonna wait on it five years. Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Right, Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I want you to. I still want you to clear those debts, smallest to largest. So really, you get to screw around with this HOA stuff of HHA HSA stuff about three or four months. And after that, you need to just pay it off. Just get it done. Get it done. I am worried about all this. I want it out of your life because I want you free, my friend.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. We're gonna set you up with every dollar, which will help you. The budgeting app, and it also helps you walk through. It's not just budgeting anymore. It's got all the stuff in it now, and it's gonna walk you through all the steps we're talking about. It's gonna coach you along the way. It's very personalized now. It's very. The algorithm on it is incredible. And we're gonna give it to you. Okay? So you hang on. Becca and Christian will pick up and get you signed up for every dollar, and it's gonna walk you through this whole process. So you're gonna win because you're paying attention. You're not afraid of hard work, and you're learning new things you never learned before. You've been victimized by these things, and instead, you're gonna turn around, put your thumb on the. Put your foot on the neck of it, and say, no more. No more. We're done. And, you know, you gotta stand on the neck of the snake and say you're done. You don't have. You don't have a shot anymore, buddy.

[Sam Washall]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I like what you said about the. I keep thinking about that. When you're thinking about a grand total of debt, it helps so much to jump into every dollar and do the financial roadmap. So you can see the snapshot with what I'm earning now. How long will it take? And it might show you something like three or four years. And you get to say that that's too long. So I add the $1,100 more money to it. And then when you get to.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's too long. I'm going to sell the car.

[Sam Washall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or it's too long. I'm going to have a garage sale.

[Sam Washall]

And reverse engineer it back. And then you can focus on what are the three things I do to get that money. I sell the car. I do the garage sale instead of focusing on, you know, $200,000 of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm stuck. I'm stuck. Yeah. The way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time. That's exactly right.

[Jade Washall]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Sam Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

They never report good news. So let me give you the good news. Okay. The stock market was up the S and P in 2023, 26%. The stock market was up in 2024, 25%. The stock market was up in 2025, 16%. That's a total of 67% in three years. That means three years ago, if you had $100,000 in your 401k in a basic growth stock mutual fund, if you've added nothing to it, you now have almost doubled it at 170.

[Sam Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not on the news.

[Sam Washall]

No. And that's a lot of money that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You missed because you were watching the news worrying about government shutdowns and tariffs and artificial intelligence bubbles, whatever that is and whatever else it is that you believe that you're going to watch bad news for every day. So meanwhile, I'm just the tortoise. I just keep investing every week, every day, every month, I just put a little more in, a little more in. And all these years, 65 years old. I've been doing that over and over and over, not worrying about what the news says. We've outlived the Internet. We've outlived SiriusXM radio. We've outlived Bill Donahue and Sally Jesse Raphael.

[Sam Washall]

That's a blast from the past.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. I'm trying to think of weird stuff from the past. Yeah. And here we are. And, you know, you just keep investing and you just keep living and you keep. And, guys, you're not going to hear this on the news, okay? The only thing you hear on the news is when the whole world's coming to an end. Right. And what happened? The stock market, when the president did so and so, or when he didn't do so and so, or when Iraq did so and so, or Iran did so and so, or name it, and it's in the news. And then, oh, the market, the market. The market. Up 16% last year. 16%. That means if it had done half. If you have a mutual fund that sucks so bad that your mutual fund did half as good as the stock market, you still did three times what your high yield savings would have done.

[Sam Washall]

It's a big deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Smoke on that for a second. Okay. Hello. This is a big deal, y'.

[Jade Washall]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is why you start investing, you keep investing, and you don't stop investing. And if you need to turn off the news, it's not a bad idea.

[Sam Washall]

And this is also why you get started on the things we teach. So you don't miss out on stuff like this, because the time is passing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get your butt out of debt, so you get to take advantage of this.

[Sam Washall]

The time is passing because, I mean.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you got a million dollars in there during this time, it's looking nice. That means you made $700,000 in three years on your million sleeping. If you got 10 million, you just made $7 million on your 10 million in three years. Now, is that a guarantee? No. Is it going to happen in the next three years? No.

[Sam Washall]

But it explains why you're in such a good mood.

[Dave Ramsey]

That and coffee. Yes. I love it. That's fun. Tyler. Tyler's with us in Toledo. Hey, Tyler. What's up?

[Sam Washall]

Hey.

[Jade Washall]

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Jade Washall]

So my fiance and I kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have a.

[Jade Washall]

Interesting situation. I guess we've been working a side hustle for about two years now at our farm. And she's been the manager, and I kind of just. I get to do the fun stuff, sit on the tractor and drive around and pretend I can help Him?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well.

[Jade Washall]

So the previous owner passed away, and now the son owns it, and he's, you know, 18 hours away in Oklahoma, so he's trying to sell it to us. So it would be buying out the business and the house, and we've been looking at houses.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, the business is what, a farm?

[Jade Washall]

It's a. It's a horse farm, so it'd be a boarding facility.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you gonna get the land?

[Jade Washall]

Yep, we'd get the land. We get the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is the land and the house worth?

[Jade Washall]

About three quarters of a million to 800,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what does this business profit?

[Jade Washall]

The profit right now is about 8,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, Okay. And what does he want to sell it for?

[Jade Washall]

Hasn't given us a hard number yet. We're still in the financial stages, the planning, beginning stages of it right now. But. But we're. He's talking like 650 to 750.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's going to sell you a $750,000 piece of real estate for 650,000 and give you a free business?

[Jade Washall]

Pretty much. He just wants.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Sam Washall]

That doesn't feel right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Jade Washall]

Well, he wants us to have it and wants us to run it in, you know, under his dad's legacy and all that good stuff, and he's still got younger siblings in the area and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let me poke a second and make sure. Because when I hear something's too good to be true, you know what the saying is, right? If something sounds too good to be true, it's because it's too good to be true.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So is this land and house really worth this, or are you just wishing it was?

[Jade Washall]

No, that's. I mean, you know, that's what Zillow says, and that's what the last estimate was, I think, five years ago.

[Sam Washall]

Then that means there's something on the business side that's. Well, I'm not saying this, but it feels like something on one of these sides isn't performing the way it seems.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, this guy really likes y'.

[Jade Washall]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

He really likes you. Like $400,000 likes you. Is that what I'm. That's what I'm saying? Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, no, I hear what you're saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So I really want to dig into this if I'm. You guys, because I. If. If this is. If these numbers are all accurate, this is a sweet, sweet freaking deal. Okay? Now, how does he want to be paid?

[Jade Washall]

That's what we're trying to figure out right now because we've been, you Know, planning our lives. We're supposed to be getting married in September of this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Jade Washall]

And then we were planning on, you know, buying a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Get married before you close this deal. If you're gonna close this deal, get married before you close the deal. Now the, the $8,000 a month profit is that after you're paid and your wife is paid by the old man that died?

[Jade Washall]

That is after everybody's paid all that good stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you get paid?

[Jade Washall]

Well, right now I'm currently working for free board for my horse.

[Dave Ramsey]

What were you getting paid when the old man was alive?

[Jade Washall]

About $12 an hour just for barn work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so a month. In a month you would make. In a month you would make what?

[Jade Washall]

We'll call it 500 bucks a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing. Okay. And what is your wife being paid, your fiance to be wife being paid?

[Jade Washall]

She's making about three grand a month over there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So let's pretend for a second she's. That you gave almost all of the profits from the business after you all live on 30. After you live on $40,000 a year, which is what you're making. Okay. And you live on the property and, and you give the hundred thousand dollars a year roughly to the son. And we're going to give you almost like 95% of the profit goes to you until we get to 650. Would he do that deal?

[Jade Washall]

I guess that would be something I'd have to bring up with him, but I would think so that'd be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Take you about six years to work it out. You'd be able to make $40,000 for six years and then the whole thing would be free and clear.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. And I wouldn't quit my full time job either.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you have a full.

[Jade Washall]

Oh yeah, I'm a, I'm a bricklayer, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I missed that part of the conversation because you didn't bring it up. Okay, even better.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I didn't bring that. This is, this has been a side hustle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

For us.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I got you riding the tractor for the fiance is a side hustle. I got it.

[Sam Washall]

You know what? And I also think this deal, if, if he likes the sound of it, that's going to give you a good indicator if, if those profit numbers are right. But if he's like, I would never do that deal, then I definitely want to dig deeper.

[Dave Ramsey]

A percentage of profit after you make enough to live on a healthy, like all the profit almost until he gets his money and then he's done. And then if there's no profit. He don't get his money. I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys. I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest. Early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got Netsuite. That was years ago and we've never looked back. See, netsuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business. For real time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour [e-mail] Ramsey that's netsuite.com Ramsey. Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi when it feels like your private student loans have buried your future, why refi can dig you out. They can help you, that is with low fixed rate refinancing and a clear path forward. Go to y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not in all states.

[Sam Washall]

Okay, today's question comes from Lucas in Arkansas. He says how long is too long to save for a down payment on a house? We're expecting a baby soon and we'll go down to a one income once he arrives. To purchase a modest but well built home in our area, we would have to save over 120,000 as a down payment in order to qualify. With one income. We're debt free, but it will take us years to get there. So there's, there's a couple things that I'm thinking about here when we teach the baby steps. Baby step 3B is when you're saving for a down payment and then after that comes baby step four where you're investing your 15. And I think, Dave, what happens is people go, okay, I want to do 3B but I don't want to sacrifice baby step 4 in the time in the market, like we talked about the last segment. How do I kind of juggle that together? Because the truth is, obviously, if you have focus and you take all the money, you're going to put more money towards the down payment. But with a long horizon like this, do you want to really go five, six years or whatever the timeframe is and not invest? So I would probably split the difference probably once I got past the two, I would say two to three years. Is that what you would say? Two to three years is when I'd say, okay, no more putting every dollar to the down payment. Now I'm gonna split it and I'm gonna try to do some towards retirement, not miss out there. And. And I know that that's a sacrifice. We. We rarely say to do multiple things at one time, but in this case, it's all good. It's all good for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would do 100% towards the down payment for two to three years. And then you have to adjust after that if you haven't gotten there. But the other thing, Lucas, is this. Your income during that time is probably going to go up. Your personal income. Her income's going to disappear. Oh, wait a minute. Maybe we don't need to do that.

[Jade Washall]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

That way if we want to buy a house.

[Sam Washall]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can think of that. Maybe she needs to find some work at home type work. Something that's flexible, where she's home with the kid and does some work at home while baby is sleeping and so forth. And so, yeah, we need an alternative where mom creates an income and that'll change the picture too. And then of course, also, you know, what you're saying is, here's the thing. You can't just yell at the sky and say, my wife's going to stay at home and we're going to buy a house in our 20s. In our 20s.

[Sam Washall]

Happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. It doesn't, you know, shazam. It doesn't work. Right. And so you are making a choice, and it's a good choice. If you ask me to say mom wants to be home with the baby, that's a fine choice. I would never shame you for that choice.

[Sam Washall]

But it is a factor in an equation.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just cut your freaking income in half.

[Sam Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you are deciding not to be able to afford a house as quickly because you're sacrificing one for the other. Or you could say the opposite of that. Like a lot of ladies that work here at Ramsey full time, I'm looking at several of Them while I'm saying this, right? Jade, my daughter Rachel, and Kelly across the glass and so on. We have kids, we are raising a family and we are professional ladies. You know, we work around that. And that's, it's not only for money, but it's also what you've chosen with your life. Okay. It's also for money. And so I've noticed that we pay y' all and so that kind of stuff.

[Sam Washall]

So it plays a big part.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's for money. Hello. So, you know, and so I think that's the thing. You can just decide that that's what you're going to do. But by deciding that, you're also deciding some other things.

[Sam Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And there's some unintended consequences or they should be actually intended consequences is my point. Say, by definition, I'm going to choose to live in that neighborhood because we have one income instead of this other neighborhood because we have one income or this other type of house or whatever, this nicer property. Right. And by definition, we're going to have to buy something that's a little different to get our foot in the door to get started on this homeownership thing. Because we're choosing to do this on one income. And I don't think it's a bad thing. But you don't get to just say, I do whatever I want and yell at the sky. You can't yell at the sky. It doesn't work. You know, you still have to. There's mathematics involved in all this. And it's, you know, this idea that when money is one place, it by definition can't be another place. It's a fixed thing. It doesn't float around. It's not omnipotent. Hey guys, speaking of homes, buying or selling is a big deal. The market is picking up. I predict a robust spring. Right now we're sitting at about 5%, just a little bit over 5% on a 15 year fixed rate. The median house prices have been holding pretty steady right around that low 400,000 mark for quite a while now. With these interest rates ticking down, we're about to see these markets, markets take off. And so if you're thinking about buying a home, this is a really good time to start getting your act together. Get out of debt, have your emergency fund in place. And if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get some free tools to help you with your buy and sell, and you're doing all that with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com market and we'll get you going. Julia is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hi, Julia. How are you?

[Jade Washall]

Hi.

[Caller]

Doing good.

[Jade Washall]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

All right, so my husband and I are starting baby step two this month with $75,397 in debt. So when would it be most advantageous to refinance our balloon mortgage?

[Dave Ramsey]

Immediately. That's a panic. When is the balloon due?

[Caller]

So the balloon is up in 2029.

[Dave Ramsey]

She.

[Caller]

So our current interest rate is 5.5%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And if we refinance now, that'll give us about 6.6%.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it won't. I just said just a moment ago, 15 year fixed right now is 5%.

[Jade Washall]

Really?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

We've been watching.

[Caller]

Wow. We've been watching because we just budgeted everything and we were googling interest rates and it said 6.6.

[Sam Washall]

It's going to be between 5.5 and 5.08.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Right now it's hovering in the low fives for a 15 year fixed. This week as you and I are talking now, I don't know when people are going to be listening to this particular version of the podcast, but yeah, at the moment you and I are talking. That's what we're looking at. So call Churchill Mortgage and talk to them about refinancing. If you roll 100% of your refinance, if you got a lot of equity.

[Caller]

Yeah, we have 100 to 120.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just roll your refinance costs in and nothing out of pocket.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And get rid of this balloon because this thing's hovering over your head and you're just inviting. You're inviting an earthquake in your life.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You ever heard the saying, if anything can go wrong at will, Murphy's Law.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

As you approach this balloon, if you leave the balloon in place, you increase the likelihood of job loss, medical problems. All these things that happen at exactly the wrong time, screw up your income and keep you from being able to refinance and you lose the house. Okay, that's what I don't want. Okay? Right now everything's sitting pretty and sassy. Let's not do a bunch of little half percent math and try to screw something up here. Let's get rid of this danger that you've signed up for in your life. This is nightmarishly suicidal. You've got to get this off your home before something happens. And you're not able to right now while you can. It's called get it while the gettin's good, right?

[Sam Washall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man, that stuff balloons scare me to death. Can y' all tell?

[Sam Washall]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I hear the fear in my voice. It turns into anger. Yeah. Oh, man, I can't stand it because these people get stuck and you know when we end up with them in financial counseling with one of our coaches is they're having to sit down because they are stuck and they lost a job or, you know, their sister got cancer or whatever and they've got all these income problems and credit problems and stuff's popped up or some kind of identity theft thing blew up their credit scores. Taken them six months to get it fixed and they can't get refinanced. In the meantime, all this other crap happens. Just exactly tell you at the time you're doing that, it's just a disaster. Oh, yucko, yucko, yucko. Please act like your hair is on fire and get rid of that thing quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. You.

[Jade Washall]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Jade Washall Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and author of a brand new book that hits the streets today called what no one tells you about Money. The real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. You do need a copy of this book. It's available today anywhere great books are sold. John is in Los Angeles. Hey, John, how are you?

[Jade Washall]

I'm doing good. How are you today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

So my situation, I'm trying to figure out the practicality of purchasing a home in or around the Los Angeles area. It's very, very expensive. I think I do relatively well income wise.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do? What do you make?

[Jade Washall]

So this year I made $200,000. That's pretty good right around there. Yeah, but even with that relatively high income, it still feels a bit out of reach. In 2024, I paid off all of mine and my wife's student loans were 100% debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, but that down payment still seems like a little far fetched. And even if that is achieved, the monthly mortgage payments, honestly, I mean, not regardless of the interest rate, but it's going to be a lot. The fixer uppers out here run you about 850 or 800 to 800 and that's no palace. Yeah, exactly. It's a very. It's definitely a fixer upper.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you do?

[Jade Washall]

I'm just trying to navigate.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do for a living.

[Jade Washall]

I am in sales for a large Fortune 10 company.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Is it tied To Los Angeles.

[Jade Washall]

No, it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so why Los Angeles?

[Jade Washall]

That's. Well, sorry, let me rephrase that. So my career is in Los Angeles. I am directly correlated with my territory out here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. Okay. That's what I was asking. Yeah. So it is tied to Los Angeles. Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Well, I don't think the numbers that you're giving are wrong. I think you've realistically assessed this, and it's kind of like, well, crap, I thought $200,000 a year was a lot of money. You know, it's like, golly, this is weird. And that's the way it feels. It feels that way to me every time I hear it. And it's still the reality of the math is what you're giving me. And I think you. Everything you said, I think was the truth. I don't think there was anything as exaggerated or fatalistic or anything there. So the thing is, how old are you guys?

[Jade Washall]

I'm 24.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. That's good news. Okay. Okay. And what, the 200,000 includes your wife's income?

[Jade Washall]

No, she stays at home. We have a child.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. So it doesn't include her income. Okay, good. All right, the. So that's your household income. You're doing really well, man. For 200k, you're killing. Yeah. So you got two or three options or ways of looking at this. And that is one you could say, okay, I'm in Los Angeles for a while. This is my adventure. Probably not going to spend my life here. And so if I rent for three or four years and see how the career thing goes, that's not the end of the world. And then you end up moving to a market that you can actually afford, and hopefully you can make the same kind of money somewhere. Okay. That's one thing that could happen. Okay. Another thing that could happen is you say, okay, I'm a scratch and claw, and I'm going to buy this little dinky house for 800 or $900,000. It's a fixer upper to at least get my foot in the door, and then at least I own something. Right. And at least then as prices go on up, I get to ride the wave instead of being crushed by the wave.

[Jade Washall]

Right, Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you sacrifice home ownership being like a dream come true. Instead, it's like barely getting in.

[Sam Washall]

And even still, you'll still have to embrace a bit of a timeline on this and just knowing that going in so you can set realistic expectations on both sides, what you'll get for the money and how long it'll take you to get the money to get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's an okay strategy as well. It might be two or three years. That's not the end of the world. It's not the end of the world. Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

The other strategy. The other strategy is to start thinking about, okay, where do I want to live where I can buy a piece of real estate? Because I can't buy a piece of real estate in Los Angeles. Because you literally live in one of the easily top five most expensive cities in the world.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah, I mean, can you just. Realistically speaking as, I mean, you're making 200,000 between you and your wife, can you guys live on half that? Can you live on 100,000?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, so we can. But in the 200,000 I do want to specify is before taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Sam Washall]

And we're talking, I'm talking round numbers with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you start chunking somewhere around 100 grand away though, you'd have 300 grand away in three years. That's what she's saying.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, yeah. And I mean we can, we can.

[Sam Washall]

Live on half that because that's what you're looking at. I mean, I'm just. And again, I'm round numbering this, I'm just plugging it in. So I'm looking at it with you. But if you commit to a three or four year journey on this and do what Dave said, I definitely think that's worth it because again, you're getting your foot in the door and you're climbing, you're climbing the ladder at that point, the real estate ladder.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I don't think the LA real estate is bad. I think it's excellent. It's just really expensive. It's just really expensive. Expensive.

[Jade Washall]

I mean, you know, for sure. And, and also like my career is here and I could see like a lot of positive career growth like in this area. Yeah, it's just kind of like that, that mental battle with like. Well, is it, is it practical to stay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you're. Yeah, it's practical to stay for a while. It might not be your 10 year dream career though. Yeah, you know, it might be. It's okay if it is. And if you got a lot of growth and you know, that's the other thing. If your career continues to hockey stick, I mean, dad gum, dude, you're 24, you're killing it to 200 grand. That's amazing. You're stud. Okay, so I mean, what if you went to 300 and then 400? Well, these numbers all Start to change real fast.

[Sam Washall]

Right? Very quickly. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I don't know what your comp schedule is or what this thing looks like on your career, but you're an impressive young dude. I know that.

[Sam Washall]

I gotta believe he's making more in three to four years from now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think he is. And I think. I think also that you've done a very dispassionate, logical. There's no shaking your fist at the.

[Sam Washall]

Sky, just looking at it for what it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm mad. This is not fair. There's none of that tone in what you're doing, which is the first clue that you're actually gonna make it. Probably.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah. He was not very emotion. He wasn't emotional.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, but there's no. Like, this isn't fair. It's like, you know, we get that a lot, you know, and it's like. But I understand. It's not fair, but I can't. You know, your feelings don't.

[Sam Washall]

They don't care about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your math doesn't care about your feelings. You know, so that's the thing. So I think you're sharp young dude, and I think you're going to get there. And I would just sit, right. I'd sit tight, start saving some money and just monitor your career and monitor the market and save like a crazy man and get your foot in the door.

[Sam Washall]

And what you said just then is so, so true because, yeah, he wasn't emotional, he wasn't whining. But a lot of people, they do, they look at the numbers and it feels overwhelming to them. So they don't even start, Dave. But if you just start putting aside.

[Dave Ramsey]

Worse, they ignore the math and go buy something that crushes even worse. Crushes them even worse because it's just not fair. So homeownership's not reachable with reasonable. Ramsey's not right. Not reasonable. Oh, crap. It ain't getting to do with Ramsey.

[Sam Washall]

Just start.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it's got to do with you. I've already got my house. It's not going to do with me.

[Jade Washall]

Me.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's got something to do with you. So what are you gonna do? Are you gonna crush yourself because you had a little temper fit on the candy aisle and buy something you can't afford? That's. That drives me nuts.

[Sam Washall]

Please don't do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's the opposite end of the spectrum, this young stud is. He's got it going on now. Like this guy. He's gonna.

[Jade Washall]

Sam.

[Sam Washall]

When you're stuck in a cycle with your money Try, fail, try again. It can feel like you're losing your mind, but you're not alone and you're not crazy. That's why I wrote my brand new book. What? No one tells you about money. It turns out money is emotional. And no one's been talking about feelings like fear, shame or guilt keeping you stuck until now. I'm gonna tell you about the real fight and show you how to win. Get your copy [e-mail] store. That's Ramsey Ramsysolutions.com store.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mike's in San Diego. Hey, Mike. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Mike, I didn't push the button. Is that what you're saying? All right, I didn't push the button. Thank you. Goodness. You'd think I know how to do this by now after 40 years. Hey, Mike, how are you?

[Jade Washall]

Hey, I'm doing great. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I'm kind of challenged right now, but other than that. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

Well, I had a question. Kind of honestly, not kind of similar to the guy before, but I'm 25 years old. I live in San Diego, also work a job in software sales. And about 18 months ago, I started a side hustle that's kind of taken off a bit. And I'm really kind of looking for some guidance, I guess, from an entrepreneurial perspective on like, when I should maybe consider doing that full time versus trying to rack up as much income as I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. So what's it doing how much you're making on the side hustle?

[Jade Washall]

So I started it in summer, 2024. Didn't really do much the first six months. Maybe like 5,000 in profit. Last year we did 68,000 in profit. And then this year I think we'll do about a hundred thousand, maybe 120.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make at your day job?

[Jade Washall]

About 175.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm in.

[Jade Washall]

So off. Thank you. I'm in software sales. So some years it's 150, some years it's 200. Yeah, it can just vary.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you're. So you're 25 in between the two, you're making 300 grand. You're killing it, man. Proud of you. Okay, so how much time does the side hustle take?

[Jade Washall]

That's the thing. Like it takes me probably, I want to say 20 to 30 hours a week, my average day. Kind of looks like working on the business maybe from about 5 to 8pm a.m. i'm fortunate enough to where I work remotely. To where, Yeah, I can just kind of Log off and start working on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Are you married?

[Jade Washall]

I'm engaged.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Wow. Yeah, it's kind of ideal right now. I mean, you're just stacking cash.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, pretty much. I've been able to sock a good amount of money away.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Sam Washall]

If you worked double the hours, would you make double the money? Is it that cut and dry?

[Jade Washall]

Not. Not exactly. So the, the business is very online focused. Like it's very dependent on Facebook, actually. So essentially, what do you think the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Shelf life of the new business is? How long you think it's going to last before some platform takes you out or a shift in technology or something?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, that's a good question. Honestly, I'm pretty optimistic about Facebook and the way they're kind of investing. I would say that, I mean, conservatively, 10 or 15 years, but you know, who knows, right? Like Google.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm 100%, 100% sure that Google and Facebook are going to do one thing, take care of Google and Facebook.

[Sam Washall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they don't give a crap about you, I can promise you. Okay. So you need to be defensive about your platform usage and don't think that they're on your team. Okay? Okay. Because about the time you get something figured out, they turn it and screw you. I mean, we've been playing with these guys for 15 years since they started. I mean, I've been doing from the time back when SEO was a thing, you know, and not even exist anymore. So, you know, whatever. By the time you get it figured out, they figure out a way to monetize everything you've been doing and then they flip it on you. So I'm not cynical. I'm just telling you you need to be realistic about your platform life. And it ain't 15 years. I'm not going. There's no way. Not without you iterating substantially.

[Jade Washall]

Now.

[Dave Ramsey]

It doesn't mean you're going out of business, but you're not going to do it the way you're doing it. But probably 36 months and then they're going to change something. So. Okay, cool. That's still awesome, man. Get off my entrepreneurial cynicism. But the. All right. Is there a reason to quit yet?

[Jade Washall]

No, I just feel that if I had more time and energy to put into the business, I could scale it non linearly, if that makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it does. And I believe. I believe you. I think you're right.

[Jade Washall]

We have a lot of systems in place that kind of run the business itself, but it is a, it is a volume game.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, sure.

[Jade Washall]

So I think with more time and attention, I could get it to a point to where it's making more.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then you'll hit the point of diminishing returns, curve their time as well. But I do think you can make what I think you could easily make. I don't even know what you're doing. Okay. But it just sounds like the trend line on this. You could make what you're making now if you went full time, which I'm.

[Sam Washall]

Just curious on where your passion lies. Did you start the side hustle out of money, or. I just really like this field. I want to see if I can make. Do something in it and possibly make some money. Which one are you more passionate about?

[Jade Washall]

It's just, honestly, like, a passion thing. Like, it's actually adjacent to my career, so I'm actually doing the things that a lot of my clients are doing in my. My career side. And honestly, I just kind of listened to them talk about what they were doing right and what they were doing wrong, and it kind of inspired me to do my own version of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you go breach in that at all.

[Jade Washall]

No, no, it's. It's completely independent from what they're doing. It's just a variation of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got you just best practices? Yeah. Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Pretty much, yeah. So, I mean, it kind of sounds like to you, like, I mean, it would be my dream to really be able to do it full time.

[Sam Washall]

That's awesome.

[Jade Washall]

I definitely understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

When are you getting married?

[Jade Washall]

Married next year, like, maybe 13, 14 months. Okay.

[Sam Washall]

What's she make?

[Jade Washall]

She is. Actually. I talked her into helping me with the business about six months ago, which is why we saw such strong growth.

[Sam Washall]

And so is she doing that full time? Yeah. Oh, interesting.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. So she was working as a. Like, a web designer, and I told her she wasn't. She was doing it like, contract freelance work. Wasn't enjoying it too much. And I said, hey, I'm really time locked here with. With my job, but I really believe in this, and I think you have the skill.

[Dave Ramsey]

What could you hire someone to do what you're thinking about doing? What would it cost you in addition to her?

[Jade Washall]

I'm not sure. I think that I've had experiences hiring people on Fiverr where they'll kind of take what you're doing and try to compete against you with it.

[Sam Washall]

Mm.

[Jade Washall]

I'm not sure we have the capital to go out and hire somebody like W2.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you do. You got 100 grand?

[Sam Washall]

Well, I was gonna say you paid yourself that. Did you Pay her anything or. That's part of the hundred grand.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. So right now we're basically splitting it, so she's getting 50, and then I pay myself 50 and kind of run the expenses out of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, So I love where you are. I love what you're doing. I love that you're thinking about it logically. Basically, I think you guys are a power couple. So there's not a screw up. There's no check the box in the stupid column here. None of that's going to happen. Okay. It's only a question of what you want to do and what is best. All right? So one idea that popped into my head, if I were sitting exactly where you are, and I'm very entrepreneurial, and I'd rather work for myself than anybody because I'm too contrary to work for somebody. So one idea that popped in my head is, let's just burn the midnight oil until we get married.

[Sam Washall]

I love that idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

And just crank this thing and see how high a stack of cash. Let's fill a bedroom full of cash over there. Okay? Just make some money. Okay? And during that time, you can start to see what some of the trend lines are in the platforms you're using. And if your prediction or my cynicism, which one is more accurate? And if you do that and you turn it on, you come back from the honeymoon and you just made 200 grand on this thing and you want to punt the day job and go on, then go on. And if the whole thing crashes in two or three years, you got a bedroom full of money and you made some money and you could go do it again, you could go do something else. Because the beautiful thing about this is you can land like a cat on carpet when you're done because you've got the skills.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. Honestly, I love that idea. I've really been going back and forth between, like, I got a good job, I want to keep it. People tell me like, it's a dream job, but also like, you can get it again.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you know how to do that job.

[Sam Washall]

It'll be waiting there if you ever want to go back to it. And you're at a great time of life where you can do exactly what Dave said. You're not married yet. You guys are in that time of adventure where it's like, you want to go, I want to go. Let's go do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Scramble here.

[Sam Washall]

We'll eat peanut butter and jelly salad. Like, we'll do whatever we need.

[Dave Ramsey]

Z. Let's make hay while the sun shines, baby. You know, and you know, after the marriage, quit if you. If you make a bunch of money, you know, I mean, you gotta be making about what you're making or more. But if you are, then quit. The downside of both of you doing this is if it goes sideways, your whole freaking deal goes sideways. Your lack of diversification on your income base is a little scary, but it's okay. I think you got the margin to handle all of it, and I think you're on top of it.

[Jade Washall]

Foreign.

[Sam Washall]

Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off, worse, or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me. You're more in control than you think. You can turn your finances around. So let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free EveryDollar live stream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck so you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead. And you could even win $2,000 just for signing up. Listen, another year is gonna pass anyway, so decide that this is the year you're gonna take back control of your life and your money. Go sign free live [e-mail] live stream.

[Dave Ramsey]

Logan is with us in Louisville. Hi, Logan, how are you?

[Jade Washall]

Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

So I am 26 years old and I bought my first half house last May whenever I was 25 years old. And I'm kind of realizing that I probably made a very big mistake because I bought it on a 30 year mortgage with 5% down at 6 and a half percent interest. And I'm wondering what I should do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Is the home affordable?

[Jade Washall]

It is. It was $220,000 and the mortgage is 1623amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your household income?

[Jade Washall]

Income as. I make $65,000 a year last year and I work at a major auto factory in Louisville. Sure. And I will be eventually making a hundred thousand dollars a year in about a year and a half or two years or so, according to our union contract. And so I'm basically.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you married?

[Jade Washall]

I never hurt. No, sir. I do live with my girlfriend, however. Okay. Because she had to drop out of college and her Parents aren't really supporting her financially and she didn't really have another option other than she had to either move in with me or it was be homeless. So I went ahead and moved her in. And so she has about $10,000 in student loan debt. And then I additionally have about $12,000 on an auto loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Well, there's no we. She has her life. You have your life. You're not married, and so you have $12,000 in student. You have $12,000 car payment and you have a house payment that is tight right now. Okay. So I don't think I would do anything. I think I sit right there. What I would do is as your income goes up and you need to clear this car debt off, when those two things happen and these interest rates continue to go down, I would just refinance. And when you refinance, put it on a 15.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. I had a question.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're going to get down sub fives probably this spring.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. The refinance of the 15, when you can afford it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't. I don't know when your income is going to go up. You can't afford it right now, correct? Yeah. So when do you think you're going to be, you know, move making the move from 60 towards 100?

[Jade Washall]

So we go up on a yearly basis. I'll be getting about a 10% raise in May.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It's probably going to be the following May before you start talking about refinancing, financing. You're probably. Okay. You're probably in coast mode.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. And then I actually have a lot of retirement in my retirement account. And then I've got some in an index fund that's not in a retirement account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pay off your car today.

[Sam Washall]

What's in the index fund?

[Jade Washall]

Almost 14,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And pay off your car.

[Jade Washall]

Pay off the truck completely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. Today.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, got it. I was thinking you were going to say that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And then let's build our emergency fund. And as far as the house, we're going to sit with the 30 and we're going to sit with the six and a half until the rates drop and your income comes up and you can afford to refinance and it's not going to kill you. We're talking about 18, 24 months here. And, you know, you'll be okay. Like you said, it isn't what I would have signed you up for, but you're there now, and there's no panic in these numbers. There's nothing here that's just destroying you or something.

[Sam Washall]

It's just a good lesson learned for next time you want to make a large purchase to wait till you're in a better position.

[Dave Ramsey]

And don't be combining finances with girlfriends, only with wives.

[Sam Washall]

Yes, yes. I'm not even gonna get into that. There were some things there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, there were some things there, some things there. Britain is in San Antonio. Hi Britain, how are you?

[Jade Washall]

Howdy, sir. How you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Jade Washall]

So I. I'm in a little bit of like a family pickle. I. I have a brokerage account that was gifted to me for college graduation that has about 13,000 in it. But based off the previous gentleman, you just told him to liquidate stuff and pay off the car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Today.

[Jade Washall]

I have a $7,000 car loan for my wife's car. I have a $25,000 car loan for my truck and I have about 40k in student loans putting us at about. What's that, 70, 75k cumulative debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Jade Washall]

And my gross income is about 100k a year. My wife and I have been married four years. We got a two year old and we got a baby in March.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y' all are normal. And you figured out normal's not fun.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, no, I'm. I'm tired of thinking, oh yeah, I make a hundred grand a year and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then I'm broke and I'm broke.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

So, yeah.

[Sam Washall]

So you got your first piece of advice, which is to liquidate date that non retirement savings that gets you the 13,000. So her car is paid off and you're able to put a little onto the truck. What does she drive? I'm just curious.

[Jade Washall]

She drives the 2019 Jetta. That's. I don't know, probably got 78,000 miles on it. It's in really, really good shape.

[Sam Washall]

What about your truck? How good a shape is that in?

[Jade Washall]

It's in really good shape. It's a 24 Silverado. I bought lot with two 500 miles on it with a little gift from her grandpa to really knock down my payment. Okay, 500 bucks a month for it.

[Sam Washall]

Only 500 bucks?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Sam Washall]

That's a lot.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

For.

[Jade Washall]

I thought it was great for basically a brand new truck, but I mean hindsight's 20 20, but I, I drive a lot for work, so I depreciate it. I've got, I put on like 30.

[Dave Ramsey]

The value of a brand new truck.

[Sam Washall]

Listen, you're gonna have to put the pedal to the metal on this debt. You have a great income, so that's good. But what's gonna get you is these 40,000 of student loans. It's easy to let that sit around and collect dust. But this is the time, you know, to kick it up into high gear. I want you and your wife to get into every dollar. Have you jumped in there yet?

[Jade Washall]

I have not jumped into every dollar, but I. We use, like, rocket money, and we sat down and did our financial planning for the year.

[Sam Washall]

Well, there was the problem right there. Bar, I'm playing with you, But I'm going to give you a budgeting app that's actually going to help you, and it's not going to sell you debt products along the way. So Christian will pick up and make sure that you get every dollar. And I mean it. I'm not just, you know, trying to be funny towards a competitor. I'm saying that if you go into every dollar, their goal is to get you out of debt.

[Jade Washall]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[Sam Washall]

The other budget you're using, that's not their goal. Their goal is just to keep you around as a customer. Later, they can sell you debt. We want to get you out. And therefore, in the actual app, it's going to ask you things about your life, and you're going to be able to plug that in, and then it's going to walk with you. You called into us to talk to us for a hot two, two, or three minutes. It's going to give you the advice we would give you, step by step along the way so that you stay focused and actually get this done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. Bobby is in Pittsburgh. Hey, Bobby. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

Hey. How y' all doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Great, man. How can we help?

[Jade Washall]

I have a weird question I haven't heard before on your show. So I have a minor son who received a $15,000 settlement from an accident he was in, and I'm court ordered to put it into a federally insured bank until he reaches maturity, which is in 12 years. And I'm struggling to pick where to put it because returns are trash, which.

[Dave Ramsey]

Means the court is stupid. And the court generally is stupid. That's what happens when lawyers do financial planning. Lawyers that become judges that are stupid. Did I mention this is stupid? But you're still court ordered. You're court ordered. It's aggravating us. Crud. Yeah. You can't do what you should do with it, which is put it in a decent growth stock mutual fund.

[Sam Washall]

That's terrible.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just can't do it. So you're going to be in a high yield. You're going to be in a high yield. Savings account at your local credit union or bank that's got federal insurance and you're barely going to keep up with inflation.

[Jade Washall]

Exactly. I mean, everything I'm seeing is like one less than 1%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, no, no, no. You can get three right now. You can get some high yield savings up around two, two and a half or three.

[Sam Washall]

But it's still a crime.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's still a crime. It's still a crime. But the whole thing was this kid got hurt and somebody's trying to take care of him here and then the judge is an idiot, so.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, well, I mean, the good thing is he, he currently have, we have some sizable money for him and our daughter currently. But it would be really nice to add this to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I would.

[Sam Washall]

Is there a way, I'm just asking, is there a way that you could get a lawyer in order to change that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but I'm not sure. I mean, if you went from 2 to 10 or 2 to 12, okay, you make 10%, you make 1500 bucks. I won't pay the lawyer. So it's not worth it. It's just the stupid law. I mean, it's not even the law. It's just a judge that doesn't what the crap they're doing. They don't. They thought you were, they thought you were going to take it to Vegas and put it on red, you know, let it run. Yeah, run it, run it. That's what they thought. But you know. Nah, that's sad. Yeah. You're just going to have some money parked there and kids going to have 15 grand was not going to grow much.

[Jade Washall]

Sam. Foreign. Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home? It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ramsey's real estate home base is the.

[Jade Washall]

Place to find all of your free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tools and resources for help to get.

[Jade Washall]

Prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides.

[Dave Ramsey]

A podcast, and even an in depth video course course hosted by yours truly.

[Jade Washall]

What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com realestate that's ramseysolutions.com realestate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Proverbs 14:15 says the simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps. Albert Einstein said, we cannot solve our problems with the same Thinking we use to create them. There we go. Anthony is in Orlando. Hi, Anthony. How you are?

[Jade Washall]

Are you good? How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

All right, so I came to ask you about a financial decision I'm going to make. So me and my fiance are having a baby together, and the baby comes here in two months, and she currently has a car payment that is 26 grand and to roughly $800 or more a month. And we're deciding whether to try to refinance it and meet. I looked it up and everything and looked into it a little bit more, and it said she said she owes around only 17 for the car, and then the rest is mainly like dealership fees and coverages and stuff. And I was wondering if it would be necessarily a good idea to refinance it and then just attack it and pay it off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What do you make?

[Jade Washall]

Sir, I make roughly 30 grand a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she make, sir?

[Jade Washall]

I'd say maybe like 18, 20 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you guys are 24?

[Jade Washall]

23? Yes, sir, 23.

[Dave Ramsey]

Close.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Can I love you enough to tell you the whole thing? Will you allow me to do that?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If I were your age or you were my son who's older than 23 now, and you were to ask me this question, here's what I would tell you to do, okay. In detail. And there's a lot of reasons for this, and I'll give you the reasons, too, okay? But the first thing I would do is get married by Friday, okay? Because you don't need to be doing financial transactions and babies with people you're not married to. It does not lead to prosperity and does not lead to a wonderful life. The data on this, there's piles of research that show that this is a really, really good suggestion. Okay?

[Jade Washall]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm meddling in your business, okay? I want you to get things in the right order from this point forward. So get married by Friday and then sell the car. You can't afford the car. You guys don't have any money, you don't make much money, and you have a brand new baby coming and you're so broke you can't see with an $800 payment. It's killing you, isn't it, man? Yeah. You got to sell this car. So call or have her call and get the payoff number on the car, what it takes to pay it off today, and then find out what the Kelley Blue Book value of the car is. And I hope you can sell it for enough to get out of it. I hope you're not. I hope she's not upside down in it. And for that matter, since you're her new husband by Friday, hope you're not upside down in it because you're going to be joining this party. But you guys got this thing is a weight around your neck during what should be with a baby on the way in a new marriage, the happiest time of your life. This car is a nightmare. And refinancing it doesn't get rid of it. It's got to go away. And then get you the cheapest something that you can drive that'll run and start your life off like broke people. People like I did and Sharon did and Jade did and Sam did, and most of the people listening did. That's where that song, we ain't got money, honey, but we got love. That's where that comes from, okay? And you know, and so, you know, you start with that and then you start working on your careers and both of you get your incomes up because both of your jobs sucks. And let's get our incomes move, moving. And then we start talking about buying a little better car. A little better car. But we're doing this as a couple with a new baby. That's a wonderful gift. And let's move forward. And those are the things that will cause you prosperity. There's a whole piece of literature out there, folks, a whole piece of research out there that's done multiple times in multiple different veins that talks about what's called the marriage advantage. And for instance, males live seven to nine years longer that are married than unmarried males. Just an advantage. Females live on average, five years longer that are married. So that's the physical one of the physical aspects of it. People survive cancer at a 20% higher rate that are married. Isn't that weird? Okay, there's all kinds of data out there on this stuff. The net worth of someone in their mid-30s at 35 years old. And this is not me talking to you, Anthony. This is me talking to everybody out there. The net worth of someone in their mid-30s right now is 10 to 11 times higher for a married male than an unmarried male at 35 years old. That's at 35 years old.

[Sam Washall]

That's interesting.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's got to do with a lot of different factors, but one of them is that we're joined and we're committed and we're not got one foot in a boat, one foot on the dock, and it changes the dynamic of how you do your career of how you do relationships, of how you do money, and it changes the whole thing. And so that makes sense. You're always going to get that at Ramsey, by the way. We're always going to be proponents. We're going to tell you every time because we love you to get married.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah, that makes sense. There's a lot of research out about the quality of your relationships and how they affect your longevity, how they affect your mental health. It only makes sense that it would affect your money in a similar way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. It affects. It dramatically affects your income.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, man. The amount of money that a lady makes, more that is married in her 30s than an unmarried lady. Really wild.

[Sam Washall]

That's very interesting.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the interesting dynamic of that is that sometimes the unmarried lady is saying, I want to be independent, isn't it? And yet ends up, on average, making considerably less interesting. So I don't know exactly what that is. And the guys make more too, but by the way. But it's just. It's a dynamic in our culture and the way people's neuro systems work and the way our relationships work. And then it plays out in the math. That's what it comes down to. So that would be my advice to you, sir, since you allowed me to love you and be direct. I'd be married by Friday. I'd get this car on the market and get it sold. And both of you look for better jobs. Jobs. And let's get you up there where you're making a little bit more than 40 or $50,000 a year between the two of you. Below average household income and a baby on the way. So let's get this thing moving, buddy. You can do this. You're not a dumb guy. You can do it. And you're not afraid of hard work either. So you can do this. And you called a show like this, so I know you can do it.

[Sam Washall]

They're just getting started. They can do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, absolutely. They can do this. And so there's great hope. And guess what? If you've done anything out there that you wished you hadn't done, bought a house, bought a car, whatever it is you wish you hadn't done, a lot of it can be undone or a lot of it can be survived. Just don't keep repeating it. So I've about decided at my age, since I'm old now that people say, well, you're wise. And I'm saying, yeah, you know where wisdom comes from? Bad judgment.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And doing stupid butt stuff. And the only thing I have done right is I seldom do the same stupid thing. I find new ones, but I create the same stupid thing. And if you get a whole bunch of stupid things in your past that you never do again, then people start calling you wise.

[Sam Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that's really what it comes down to. A whole bunch of things I avoid doing now that all of a sudden it makes you look like you're smart.

[Sam Washall]

It's a success thing. You're standing on a pile of failure.

[Jade Washall]

Your sin.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. It's exactly what it is.

[Jade Washall]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Qu? Good point. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.

[Jade Washall]

Sam.