The Road to Financial Freedom Is Paved With Grit

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show Episode Title: The Road to Financial Freedom Is Paved With Grit
Host: Rachel Cruz & Ken Coleman
Release Date: January 9, 2025

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Introduction

Rachel Cruz opens the episode by engaging listeners to participate in a live survey to help shape future content. She encourages fans to text "survey" to 33789 or visit ramseysolutions.com/survey, highlighting a $500 gift card giveaway as an incentive.

Call 1: Valerie and Bill – Gifting Inheritance to Children

Timestamp: [02:04] – [08:48]

Valerie and Bill from St. Louis call in seeking advice on how to distribute their $3.5 million inheritance among their four children, each in different financial situations. Valerie expresses concern about enabling their children with equal gifts of $10,000, considering their varying needs and financial stability.

Key Discussions:

• Equal vs. Proportional Gifts: Valerie and Bill debate whether to give each child the same amount or adjust based on their individual circumstances.
• Timing of Inheritance Gifts: They discuss the philosophy from the book Die with Zero, which advocates giving inheritance while children are still young and financially establishing themselves.
• Financial Security vs. Immediate Assistance: Bill emphasizes the importance of allowing the inheritance to grow for greater financial security in the future.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Cruz: “You want to give them a blessing, not something that could potentially harm them.” [08:06]
• Ken Coleman: “Each one of them gets the same amount. You create a whole.” [07:28]

Conclusion: Rachel and Ken advise giving equal, modest amounts now to support the children without creating dependency, suggesting age considerations and emphasizing financial responsibility.

Call 2: Kel in Tuscaloosa – Investment vs. Maintaining Financial Stability

Timestamp: [10:03] – [19:15]

Kel from Tuscaloosa seeks guidance on expanding his rental property portfolio from single-family homes to multi-unit complexes. He manages his current properties self-sufficiently and owns them outright, with an income of $88,600 annually plus $4,200 monthly from rentals.

Key Discussions:

• Debt vs. Equity Financing: Kel considers financing the purchase of multi-unit properties through loans or using a HELOC, debating the risks involved.
• Maintaining Peace vs. Financial Growth: Rachel and Ken stress the importance of not jeopardizing the stable, low-risk income from current properties for potential higher gains.
• Personal Fulfillment and Financial Health: They highlight the need for emotional contentment alongside financial decisions to prevent stress and maintain a balanced life.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Cruz: “I want you to grow financially in a slower, wiser way.” [15:56]
• Ken Coleman: “I sense that the same thing that's not allowing you to go spend some of that cash is making you question.” [17:08]

Conclusion: Rachel and Ken recommend continuing the current successful strategy, focusing on maintaining financial stability without incurring additional debt, and suggest enjoying the fruits of his disciplined financial management.

Call 3: Rose in Washington, DC – Moving Out vs. Staying with Family

Timestamp: [22:22] – [40:37]

Rose and her boyfriend are contemplating moving out from living with his family due to relational stress, despite the financial burden of doubled rent. They must also support two college students and have recently gained custody of Rose's boyfriend's niece.

Key Discussions:

• Financial Implications of Moving Out: The increase in rent poses a significant challenge while they are still in Baby Step Two of Ramsey’s plan.
• Relationship Strain and Financial Decisions: Rose highlights the impact of relational stress on their financial decisions, including the responsibilities of caring for a niece.
• Separating Finances: Rachel and Ken advise separating finances and delaying major financial commitments until their relationship solidifies, emphasizing the importance of stability and clear financial boundaries.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Cruz: “This is a red flag… you are putting your money into a relationship that has no legal binding.” [24:48]
• Ken Coleman: “Separate… pay your half of the rent and other bills separately until you are legally married.” [29:34]

Conclusion: Rachel and Ken recommend postponing the move and maintaining separate finances to protect Rose’s financial independence and ensure that major financial decisions are made collaboratively once the relationship is more secure.

Call 4: Carissa in Oklahoma – Stay-at-Home Mom vs. Husband’s Employment Stability

Timestamp: [31:43] – [39:57]

Carissa, the primary breadwinner earning $30,000 annually, contends with her husband’s inconsistent employment over the past three years. They face challenges in transitioning to a single income while managing rent, car payments, and medical bills.

Key Discussions:

• Financial Feasibility of Single Income: Rachel and Ken evaluate whether maintaining a single income is sustainable given their debts and living expenses.
• Husband’s Employment Issues: Ken underscores the importance of accountability and the reality of finding employment, challenging the notion of prolonged job instability.
• Grit and Responsibility: Emphasis on the necessity of resilience and proactive financial management to support the family.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman: “There is no excuse for a man that has a wife and a child to go three years without consistent income.” [35:15]
• Rachel Cruz: “Continue to grow financially in a slower, wiser way that maintains peace.” [18:06]

Conclusion: Rachel and Ken stress the importance of her husband securing stable employment and demonstrate grit to support the family financially, advocating for proactive measures rather than relying on continued instability.

Call 5: Hunter in Oklahoma City – Student Loan Repayment Options

Timestamp: [42:05] – [56:20]

Hunter and his husband have paid off their credit cards and are now tackling $39,000 in student debt. Hunter is torn between paying off his husband’s $15,000 loan immediately versus waiting four months to pay the entire debt at once.

Key Discussions:

• Immediate vs. Deferred Debt Repayment: Rachel and Ken explore the psychological benefits of paying off debt immediately to build momentum and reduce financial stress.
• Avoiding Procrastination: Emphasis on taking action now to prevent the temptation to divert funds to other expenses or emergencies.
• Maintaining Credit Health: Discussion on how paying debt early can positively influence future financial decisions and creditworthiness.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman: “Get the win today. Act now.” [46:02]
• Rachel Cruz: “Once you pay some of it off, you gain momentum.” [44:00]

Conclusion: Rachel and Ken advise Hunter to make immediate payments on his husband’s student loan to build financial momentum, suggesting that this proactive approach will lead to greater financial stability and quicker debt elimination.

Call 6: Nadine in Chattanooga – Inheriting a Family Farm and Sibling Conflict

Timestamp: [47:20] – [50:40]

Nadine inherits her parents’ farm and discovers that her siblings have been excluded from the inheritance, causing tension and accusations from her millionaire siblings who believe she manipulated the will.

Key Discussions:

• Handling Inheritance Conflicts: Rachel and Ken discuss the importance of open communication with siblings to clarify misunderstandings and uphold parental wishes.
• Estate Planning Transparency: Emphasis on honoring the will as laid out by the parents and addressing sibling grievances through honest dialogue.
• Managing Family Relationships: Strategies for maintaining healthy relationships despite financial disputes, suggesting mediation if necessary.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Cruz: “If it’s possible, sit down with your siblings and have an honest conversation.” [50:05]
• Ken Coleman: “You can either honor Dad’s will or solve it amicably with your siblings.” [50:26]

Conclusion: Rachel and Ken recommend Nadine engage in transparent conversations with her siblings to address their concerns, either by honoring the will's stipulations or finding a mutually agreeable solution to maintain family harmony.

Call 7: Diego in Sacramento – 529 College Savings vs. Parental Funding

Timestamp: [75:43] – [83:57]

Diego and his wife are debating whether to open a 529 college savings account for their newborn or to pay for their child's education out of pocket, reflecting differing philosophies on fostering financial independence and character in their child.

Key Discussions:

• Balancing Financial Support and Independence: Rachel and Ken explore the benefits of a middle-ground approach, encouraging saving for college without fostering entitlement.
• Character Development: Emphasis on teaching children the value of money through practical experiences, such as part-time work or delayed gratification.
• Flexibility in Education Funding: Discussion on using 529 accounts as flexible tools that can adapt to changing educational landscapes and future needs.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Cruz: “Kids have to have grit and learn the value of money through various means.” [80:33]
• Ken Coleman: “Your kids are not going to handle things the way you did, so prepare them accordingly.” [82:32]

Conclusion: Rachel and Ken advocate for a balanced approach where Diego can save for education without compromising the development of his child’s financial responsibility, suggesting practical steps to instill discipline and appreciation for money.

Call 8: Jana in Phoenix – Managing Spouse’s Unilateral Financial Decisions

Timestamp: [64:31] – [73:57]

Jana expresses frustration as her husband unexpectedly took out a $30,000 car loan to purchase a new truck immediately after they nearly paid off their home. She feels hurt and angry about his unilateral decision, which undermines their financial achievements.

Key Discussions:

• Communication and Financial Decisions in Marriage: Rachel and Ken emphasize the necessity of mutual agreement in significant financial decisions to maintain trust and cooperation.
• Handling Unilateral Actions: Strategies for addressing and rectifying unilateral financial actions within a marriage, including seeking therapy and open dialogue.
• Balancing Financial Goals and Personal Desires: Encouragement to find a middle ground where both partners feel heard and respected in their financial aspirations.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Coleman: “This is not a marriage move. You should have discussed it together.” [67:22]
• Rachel Cruz: “He minimized how his actions affect you, which is unacceptable in a partnership.” [72:10]

Conclusion: Rachel and Ken advise Jana to address the issue through open communication and, if necessary, seek marital therapy to reaffirm mutual financial goals and prevent future unilateral decisions that could harm their relationship and financial stability.

Conclusion and Announcements

Rachel and Ken wrap up by highlighting upcoming resources, events, and encouraging listeners to engage with Ramsey Solutions for further financial guidance. They emphasize the importance of budgeting, proactive debt management, and maintaining financial and relational harmony to achieve long-term financial freedom.

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Notable Insights:

• Grit and Perseverance: Consistently emphasized as crucial traits for financial success and overcoming obstacles.
• Open Communication: Key in managing both financial decisions and relationship dynamics.
• Balanced Financial Planning: Advocated for strategies that promote both immediate and long-term financial health without compromising personal well-being or relationships.

Final Thoughts: "The Road to Financial Freedom Is Paved With Grit" underscores the intertwining of financial acumen with personal resilience and relationship management. Rachel Cruz and Ken Coleman provide actionable advice tailored to diverse financial dilemmas, reinforcing Dave Ramsey’s principles of disciplined budgeting, strategic debt repayment, and fostering responsible financial behaviors.

Transcript

[Rachel Cruz]

Foreign solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting today with my good friend Ken Coleman. And listen, if you love the Ramsey show, if you are an. An act, active listener, we need your help. We want to know what your favorite parts of the show are, what you like, what you don't like, what you want to hear more of. And we have a survey that is live right now that we would love for you to participate. Participate in. So two ways you can do that. Number one, you can text survey to 33789. Text the word survey to 33789. Or you can visit ramseysolutions.com survey and if you are listening on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description. We're actually giving away a $500 gift card to someone that fills it out. But these surveys really do help us shape the content of the show and what you guys want to hear. And so we are thankful for you to do that. Now you can give us a call at Triple 882-55225, and Ken and I will be answering your know, I'm looking.

[Ken Coleman]

At the screen here in the studio, and it just occurs to me we look like we're very coordinated today. We did not communicate ahead of time, James. This is just, you know, Ken loves.

[Rachel Cruz]

A coordination of outfits, and here we are.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm a little excited about it, which is why I pointed it out. It's rare that we, you know, coordinate outfits. It never happens. So this is fun. But we're here to coordinate efforts on your behalf. How about that? Well, you like that? Like that segue.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well done. Okay, up next, we have. Which is one of my favorite calls to take, is actually two people on the line. I'm assuming there are a couple kidding me. And this is Valerie and Bill.

[Ken Coleman]

I couldn't be more excited that we have a couple on with us.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, they're calling from St. Louis. Hey, you guys. Welcome to the show. Hi.

[Caller]

Good afternoon. Thank you for having us.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. And you're both here, right?

[Caller]

Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.

[Rachel Cruz]

So fun. Okay. So great. All right. How can we help? What's going on?

[Caller]

Yes, ma'am. So I inherited. Inherited a large amount of money from my dad.

[Ken Coleman]

How much?

[Caller]

Like million plus.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[Caller]

And it's in. In the cell of his house is where it initially comes from. There's actually an addition to that inheritance that's in IRAs and things of that nature. It's like 2.5 in. Locked up in that. But wait, 2.5.

[Rachel Cruz]

Wait, hold on real quick. Valerie. 2.5 in the investments and the million from the house. Or is that. Is 2.5 altogether?

[Caller]

No, separate. Yes, ma'am.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so 3.5. Okay.

[Caller]

Yes, ma'am. So my question is, I would like to give some of a little bit of this money, not. Not a lot, just a little bit to our four children right now. My dad didn't leave him anything. I was the only child, and so he pretty much just left everything to me. But I would, like gift them some. And the dilemma I'm having is that I have four kids in four different financial situations. My oldest one is married with three kids, a wife that works, has a house, he's financially okay. My second son is married, has a wife, two children with one on the way. Could use a financial bump, if you will. Owns a house. My daughter, who's also older, she owns a house, but is living with her boyfriend who. They own the house together. I know that's a real. Dave Ramsey. No, no. But anyway. And so she's financially. Well, she's graduated nursing school, and she's got a good head on her shoulders. Financially. She's the saver. And then I have a daughter who is currently in college and still lives at home who needs to get hit heavily in the head with the Daver and the financial peace. Seriously. So you can see I'm kind of all over the map with. If I give them some money, how. How do I gift it to him? I don't want one. I don't want to enable one. I don't want another one to just blow it. I don't want to, you know, potentially give them money and put it on the house.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me. Let me jump in for a second. So how much are you planning to give each child? The same amount or different amounts?

[Caller]

Same dollar amount across the board. It's not. I mean, it's not huge. I'm just thinking like, you know, what do you think maybe just 10,000? Just like 10,000. Do something just to kind of help them ease them their financial life.

[Ken Coleman]

So where's Bill at on this deal? Bill?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

Where are you think?

[Caller]

I personally think they wait until something happens and we pass on to the other side and they get the whole.

[Rachel Cruz]

Shebang that's in our. Okay, this is a. Okay, this is a. Yes, this is an interesting discussion, okay, Because I read a book which you guys should read just for this discussion, because I don't agree with the entire book, but part Time.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that you're coming with a book record.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's called Die with Zero. Have you heard of this?

[Ken Coleman]

I know this book and it's on my list.

[Rachel Cruz]

It is. It is interesting because part of this discussion is what you guys are talking about, and it's his philosophy basically, is give your kids their inheritance now. What now? So that's because the most time, according to the book, that people need money. So to your point, Valerie is really between 24 and 34. You're paying off student loan debt, you're getting your first home. Usually transitions with a marriage and kids, like the most happens usually within that time frame. And they could get a head start, quote, unquote, financially, if they had help with a down payment or if they. Whatever it is, and then they get to build above that and they get to start earlier versus them getting money. This is not kind of against you, Bill, a little bit, but versus the older kids now being in their 60s. When Bill and Valerie pass to the other side. Well, when you're 60s, you're pretty much all set up. You don't really need it or you shouldn't. And then what do you do with that? Right? So it's just kind of like, all.

[Ken Coleman]

Right, so let's stay there, go ahead and use it. So before we get them. So if that's the case. And you're not necessarily saying they do that here.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, it's just a. It's just a take.

[Ken Coleman]

They don't. Valerie and Bill, to my knowledge, you two, y'all speak up here, you don't have already a set amount that you were going to give outside of this conversation of give them all ten grand out of this inheritance. But Bill, if I'm hearing you right, you're going. We don't know what chunk it'll be, but whatever we have left when we die, that's what they get. There's not a certain amount of money that you would be in favor of giving them. Now, this, this idea that Rachel put out there, would the two of you go, all right, if we gave them a larger chunk now, would you be okay with that?

[Caller]

Well, my thing is, so we're going to be paying off our house and a few other things that we have. I just don't want to. I would rather that money continued to grow because now we will be financially set and then in hopes, if the market is the way it should be, we would have multi millions in there for them whenever we die.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, but that's contingent on you guys stewarding it as you would, and it grows over time. So I appreciate the book idea, but that's. I feel like that's only applicable to people who have a large chunk of money.

[Rachel Cruz]

That is true. Yes. That's fair. So in this case, which is them, in a sense, they have 3.5 million.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So in this case, you two. You guys are. You're calling us to weigh in the middle of this deal?

[Rachel Cruz]

I want to know, Bill, from you. I mean, it's 40 grand, which, granted, it's nothing to sneeze at, but 40 grand out of 3.5 million, it's not a ton.

[Ken Coleman]

That's where I'm at.

[Rachel Cruz]

So is it. What's bothering you about it, Bill? Is it. Is it. It's less about the dollar amount and probably maybe the principle of it. Is it.

[Caller]

Is it truly equal to all four? Because there's four different situations.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. I'm going to tell you as a father of three, Rachel's a mother of three, my vote is yes. Each one of them gets the same amount. You create a whole. I don't like giving them all different amounts based on their realities.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you could wait with like, the one in college and say, we're going to hold it until you're 25. You know, I mean, there could be an age.

[Ken Coleman]

But where are you at on the ten grand each? Forget the number amount. Is it an equal?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, it's equal, yeah. I think you agree with me.

[Caller]

Yeah, for sure.

[Rachel Cruz]

I think it needs to be. Yeah. I feel like it gets real messy real quick. Yes. Even though certain kids obviously maybe need more right now. But I also want this. Whenever you give a gift of money, you want it to be a blessing. Right. You want this not to continue to harm. So if you do see situation where this could be actually not good for them and leads them in more of an unhealthy path, that would be more of a pause for me just to think through. That's why the age limit may be something to think about. Like, when you're 25. You get it. I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Just throwing it out there. But no, I'm in favor. Sorry.

[Ken Coleman]

I am, too.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm on validation.

[Caller]

Sorry, Bill.

[Ken Coleman]

Tennis.

[Rachel Cruz]

And it's such a small percentage compared compared to what. What you guys will leave them anyways. So this is the Ramsey Show.

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[Rachel Cruz]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls on life and money. Up next, we have Kel in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Hey, Kel, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. How are you doing?

[Caller]

I'm doing well. I sent an email because I didn't think I could get on, but then I called and got on.

[Ken Coleman]

There you go.

[Rachel Cruz]

Looky there.

[Ken Coleman]

You're live right now. This is exciting.

[Caller]

I have a two part question, one about investment and the second part is about beneficiary.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. All right. What's your first question?

[Caller]

So I started watching Dave Ramsey heavily last year. I love his advice. All of you, all your perspectives on life and your sense of humor is just amazing. But thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

I feel like she's talking about me there. So I really appreciate that, Kel. Thank you.

[Caller]

I've always been done well financially, like pretty decent. But there is definitely room for growth and improvement. And this show has really helped me as a social worker. I make about 88,6 annually and I get about 4,200amonth for my rental properties. I own the rental properties outright. I manage them myself. So there's not a whole lot of overhead. There was this one episode Dave talked about being able to charge low rent, give grace and etc due to circumstances. And that just really resonated with me. But also I have quite a nest egg in savings and that comes from a financial insecurity that I once had that I'm now healing. So now I'm open to spending some, you know, leisure, having fun and just investing more.

[Ken Coleman]

There we go.

[Caller]

I've always wanted to the properties that I have, they're all single family homes. And so I've the long term goal. I was like, hey, I'm done with that. I want to do multi unit And I think I'm ready, but I'm really not sure about the best way to go about doing that. And some of my ideas just don't align with your principles. I know, but I'm just going to say them anyway. So I'm not sure if I should finance the multi unit, get a HELOC on my personal residence where I owe 101 and it's worth about 300. My nest egg is 175 cash. That's not quite enough to purchase outright and the prices are just rising. And I sometimes I feel bad for not doing this a couple years ago when the prices were lower, but I was scared and all those things.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, Kel, let me, let me interrupt you real quick. Okay, let me ask this. So you make 88,000 a year. You bring in 4,200 in rental properties that you own outright. How many home is that?

[Caller]

5.

[Rachel Cruz]

5. And how much are they worth?

[Caller]

They're not worth a lot of money. They're in Alabama.

[Rachel Cruz]

They're not worth a lot. Okay, no, that's fine, that's fine. No, I mean still, it's fantastic. And then you have $175,000 in just savings, is that what you said?

[Caller]

Just different savings accounts. One is an account where I put all the money from the rentals. That's about 100.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

I just pay insurance, I just do the repairs. And then the other ones is just regular savings. But recently One account has 30,000 in it and I was just looking and it was gaining like 25 cent a month. And just listening to you all, I looked into the mutual faith, the mutual trust, I believe. And I went with LPL Financial and I invested there just to see where that goes. But that's new. I was, you know, nervous. But like I said, I'm trying to be more open.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, totally. No, I hear you. Well, Kel, you've been. Let me just tell you, I mean it's very impressive what you've done. I mean you, you are in an incredible spot financially. So you call the Ramsey show. Yes. Any of the examples or options that you gave to purchase a multi unit we would not go for because they all pretty much involve debt. So I'm not going to go down that route with you. But what I would encourage you in is, you know, I so appreciate your willingness and urgency to continue to grow. Right. You want your money to grow and like what's the next thing? And I think that that is fantastic. But what happens so easily is that emotion and that motivation sometimes crosses a Line of risk. And then people take on debt and then take on risk and they take this beautiful, peaceful life that you have where you're just not. Yeah, I mean, you're making 4200amonth on rental properties. I'm like. I'm like, you have this incredible life set up and then they go and kind of mess with it, and suddenly now you have a bank in your life, you're worried about tenants, and suddenly this peaceful life has now brought on a level of anxiety and work and risk. And, you know, it takes a part of your. About a part of your mindset away from you and away from the peace that you have. So I want you to grow financially. We are all about that on this show. I think that that's fantastic. I just want you to do it in a slower, wiser way. That's going to ultimately for you, Kel set you up as a whole person, not just the financial piece of your life, but every. Every element of your life to still continue this piece that you have. So what I would do is either continue to do. Because you can't. I mean, from our regards, you don't. You can't afford a. To go buy a multi unit, you know, complex. So what I would say is either continue to do what you're doing, maybe save up and go buy. You know, you said our homes aren't worth a lot. You know, maybe you go and step up in rental and go buy in a nicer neighborhood, somewhere that's more expensive. You can get more rent that way. Right. Growing in these ways that it is more within your means when it comes to cash. Because right now you're on baby step seven. I mean, you're. You're good.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm sensing, Kel, that you gave us a real window into what's really going on here. And I think you need to be okay with how well you've done. I think Rachel nailed that. And there's the same thing that you identified at the start of the call where you have some financial insecurity and you've saved all this money up and you're just afraid to spend it. That's also driving this question, which is, I feel like I need more and more and more, and I'm willing to be risky and go into debt to fill this hole in your soul. And the hole in your soul here is whatever is you come from that you've conquered by the way, but you still have that fear. And by the way, we all have those. So you're not abnormal. Rachel's Right. You've crushed it. I think you need to identify today that the same thing that's not allowing you to go spend some of that cash and live some of your life and enjoy the fruits of being disciplined is the same thing that's making you question, should I add more to my portfolio? Do exactly what Rachel said. When you can upgrade in cash. Right. To better investment properties. Do that. But don't have this burning in your soul that I've got to do more to break some generational poverty or whatever you've come from. And I sense that that's probably true with you. Am I right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so Rachel's already giving you great advice. I say amen to what Rachel said. I add one other little thing. I want you to enjoy some of your money for a bit. Stop thinking about adding your portfolio right now and why don't we just take a really great vacation. Why don't we bless some people in your community with some nice, generous financial gift. That's easy for you, but you begin to see the value of what you've done and allow you to soak in that, that, hey, I've earned this. I've broken this generational poverty. I'm never going back. I'm the future. I'm the model. So let's model the way. I think that's my encouragement for you today.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I would say, Kel, too, jumping off what Ken was saying, and I think he is so spot on, is that, you know, growing your portfolio again, it's not a, that's not wrong. But we want it to come from a right motivation. And if the motivation is out of a lack of fear or scarcity or, oh, gosh, if I don't do this, what's going to happen is you're going to get the complex and then the finish line moves again. And then it's like, well, I probably shouldn't have gotten one over there, so maybe I should. You're going to keep, keep going, going, going. There has to be a level of contentment in your soul, like a level of peace.

[Caller]

Well, and then it's been about six years since I invested in anything, so I have, I was content, you know, and this was a long term goal. And I just, you know, starting to feel like, okay, I think I'm ready.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. So then maybe your motivation is pure. But I would just do it then.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

From a tactical sense in the right, wisest way, which we would say is not with debt. It is to continue to be autonomous when it comes to your money and not have other people telling you what you have to do because then you make totally different decisions with your life and money. When other people are involved, you are in a state of autonomy. And that's where I would stay. Cal. Continue to grow. You've crushed it and you're doing great. And go take a vacation.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Spend some money on you go enjoy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Thanks for the call.

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[Rachel Cruz]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. One of the ways for you to get a handle on your finances in 20255 is to get control of your money. And we have a live stream January 23rd, free to you, called Take control of your money. It's hosted by Dave Ramsey and Jade Warshaw. And you're going to learn how to stop living paycheck to paycheck, free up some breathing room so finally you can pay off debt, have some margin and some peace when it comes to your money. And then George Camel and myself are going to join them.

[Ken Coleman]

Little cameo, huh?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Later on in the live stream, we're going to take some live Q&As and kind of do like this show and take some questions and talk to some of the viewers there. And what's crazy too is if you sign up and you attend this live stream, we are giving some cash away. Yes, there's a cash giveaway for five people to win $4,000 each. I mean, that's unbelievable.

[Ken Coleman]

It's 20k one night.

[Rachel Cruz]

What quick math you can do there.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, I went to basic math class.

[Rachel Cruz]

Unbelievable. So sign up for the free live stream by going to ramseysolutions.com live stream or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcasts or watching on YouTube and join us. It's free. It's, it's gonna be a great night. It really is. These live streams are always very helpful at the beginning of the year to either just get the motivation back again and kind of get back on track, or if you are new to all of this and you're thinking, I need to start a fresh start with my money, this is what you want to attend. So again, join us for Take control of your money on January 23rd. Up next, we have Rose in Washington, DC. Hi, Rose. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. How are you guys?

[Rachel Cruz]

We are doing great. How can we help?

[Caller]

So my question is financial, but it's also affected by, like, relational stuff. So my question is, is it the right decision for my boyfriend and I to move out from living with his family when the lease ends, knowing that our rent will double and we're still in baby step two? And then we also have two colleges we have to pay for starting in the fall for some background. I'm 31, he's 27. And we're currently going through like an intense disclosure process in therapy. So we think, you know, being with families, like, adding some stress. And then at the same time, we unexpectedly got custody of his niece a year and a half ago when she was 17. So we got her late in life. So we know we won't make it to baby step five in time to save up for her college that we have to start paying for in the fall.

[Ken Coleman]

So what's the alternative? If you don't move out of the.

[Caller]

Brother'S house, we would have to stay living with like, family members, which the rent is cheaper, but just it's. And it's not with his parents. It's with like brother, nephew and family.

[Ken Coleman]

So, yeah, it's a disaster. You know, you want to get out of there, you know you should get out of there, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So is there not a better rent option?

[Caller]

It's just like right now each, like me and my boyfriend are each paying like 550. But if we move out, you know, getting an apartment near the D.C. area for like a one bedroom or two bedroom with our needs would be like double what we're paying now.

[Ken Coleman]

Where? Okay, I know that area somewhat. Where are you now? What, what area are you in?

[Caller]

We're in the suburbs. We're in Springfield and we're in a big house. So we split it between six people versus if we go out on our own, we'll be paying double for ourselves.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So give us run the numbers for Rachel here. What you got, what are your income is versus what this new rent would be.

[Caller]

Okay, so I make about 86,000 per year with multiple jobs. And then last year my boyfriend made 20,000 because he was part time in college. He's about to take a break on that. So about, like Together, it's about 106,000 total per year. And then the rent that we're paying right now is 1,120, but if we move out, it'll increase to about 2,500, which I think is still in the 30% monthly income. But we're nervous about that. We're going to be cash flowing colleges starting in the fall.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, Rose, let me tell you this. A little bit of a red flag that I have going up is that you're saying a lot of our, our, our you're taking care and putting money towards a family member and a situation that you don't have any legal, you know, right to in a sense. Meaning that you are putting your money in to a life in a relationship that there is no marriage. There is no legal binding. And there's a part of me that I, I that worries me because, you know, even though I'm sure you guys are in love and, you know, you've been in a relationship for a while, we get calls on this show quite often that, you know, we get a call and it's like, yeah, my boyfriend and I just broke up and, and I, you know, still have debt and I don't really have a ton. And, and then turns out that they, you know, were giving their money and your income to a situation that if something were to happen with the relationship you don't get anything from on the back end. Does that make sense? Like there, there's a, there's a big risk there. And, and I'm not. And I'm not a huge fan of you feeling this burden either because it's not your niece. It's his. And so I, I, there's a little.

[Ken Coleman]

Bit of she's the breadwinner. I hate to say in this situation, 100% she is. I really don't like, I mean, boyfriend needs to get his act.

[Rachel Cruz]

Why don't you get married?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, there's that.

[Caller]

So. Okay, well, that's The. The little part. But yeah. So we've been together almost six years and we were about to. He had a relapse and so that's why we're in the intense therapy process.

[Ken Coleman]

So what, do you put that on pause without getting to the nitty gritty? What kind of relapse?

[Caller]

Like a full relapse.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't want to get into substance. Are we talking about substance abuse?

[Caller]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right. So I am in a 12 step program.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you are.

[Caller]

Yes. And him too. He's in recovery now and then we're in the disclosure process.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. When you said disclosure, I figured there was something. Okay. All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. We're not. We don't want to dig anymore.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Yeah. So, Rose, I would.

[Ken Coleman]

Separate. Separate. Separate.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I. And again, this isn't to punish him. This is to be wise for Rose. And I would tell you this. I mean, honestly, Rose, we are. We are one of the shows in America that. One of the only shows that tell married couples to combine their finances. A lot of people say just keep everything separate, regardless if you're married or not. We say when you get married, you need to combine everything except for. With the asterisk. If there is an ongoing addiction, if there's abuse, if there's something in the relationship, we do recommend separating again for protection of the other spouse until trust is rebuilt and all of it. So from a financial perspective, Rose, I would really. And again, it's not to punish him, but it is to say, hey, we are not married. And we were going that direction. There was a relapse, which again, I think happens in the recovery world. We have a good friend that is in recovery too. And so, like, it is wonderful and there is a healing journey and a process that I totally believe in. But I would just. I would slow down and I wouldn't be fretting about the niece's college. That's not even your niece yet. I mean, all of it. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I just. I would. I would. I would keep. I would keep some things very, very separate until you feel comfortable enough to marry this man. And at that point, then he is trustworthy, then to together start working on this life financially together. But until then, there's no we in it. It's his niece. He got custody.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know what I'm saying? And I know that probably goes against so much of what, how you guys have been living, and I know that feels really counter to it. But. But that's. That. That. That's the advice I would give you. Because again, we hear. We hear the other side of it, too.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And just to follow up, Rose, is it fair to say that when you're going through whatever you're going through now, is it possible that this process leads one or both of you to the point where you guys go, we're not gonna stay together or we're not going to get married?

[Caller]

Oh, no, we're. We're pretty sure we're going to make it through the park.

[Ken Coleman]

I didn't understand that. Okay. So, you know, at this point, I'm never a fan of anybody shacking up together, but I'm old school. No judgment, by the way, when I say that. No judgment.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

That's just my personal opinion. I'm not judging anybody. Now, with that said, then he needs to be truly paying 5050 on the rent. And you. I'm just clarifying something that Rachel said. You're not taking any of your income to help out with the niece or anything else. Not until you guys are a legal couple. You pay for you. That means you pay your half of the rent, you pay your half of the utilities. You pay your. That's the. And then everything else is separate until we get legally married. I want to make sure you catch that. And that keeps things really nice and clean. Okay. Which means he may need to delay college for a little bit.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And get his income up.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. That he. If you guys are going to move out of the family situation that is toxic and not fun to be in, then your rent goes up. And as two adults, we have to split that rent. Well, if he looks up and says, wow, I don't have a lot for this rent, then I'm have to figure out a way to pay for this rent. And you have to problem solve in that.

[Caller]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Instead of just leaning on you, Rose, for everything. And yeah, I would be very cautious of that, which again, is. Is this is hard and messy. See in the point of the journey that you guys are relationally too. So I know we're adding on probably an extra layer of hard conversation, but you called, so. Good luck to you, Rose. Hope nothing but the best for you guys. This is the Ramsey show. You've got a lot to keep organized in life. Kids and calendars and carpooling and cleaning. I mean, it is so much. That's why you need a knockbox. That way if something happens to you, you leave your loved ones with happy memories and not a huge mess. Knockbox is a complete system to help you organize your accounts, personal history, estate planning documents and all your other info in one place. I'm talking about everything from life insurance policies and social media accounts to your dog's vet divided into 15 simple categories. Plus they've got checklists that tell you what to add to each folder so your family won't have to guess where everything is. So start getting organized [e-mail] Ramsey your family will thank you. That's Knockbox. N o k box.com Ramsey welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Today's question of the day is brought to you by. Why refi? Why refi finances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment that you can afford with a low fixed interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else. To help you really stick to your budget and work the debt Snowball, go to yrefi.com today Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Ken Coleman]

Today's question comes from Carissa in Oklahoma. I'm 25. My husband is 37. I have been the main breadwinner since we got married because I wanted my husband to focus on his writing career. I recently had our second child and would like to stay home to raise the babies. The problem is I can't convince my husband that we can make it on one income. He has not consistently held a job for the last three years due to company layoffs. I'll address that in a minute. I make about $30,000 a year. My husband, when he's working, by the way, that's in parentheses, makes about 30,000 as well. Our rent is $800 a month, and besides our normal bills, we have a car payment of $300 a month. We also owe 3,700 in medical bills. We budget and don't live outside our means. It would probably be a big financial change to only have one income, but I feel like my most important job is to take care of my children. Is my desire to be a stay at home mom unrealistic in this economy?

[Rachel Cruz]

In the economy, no. In your household, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

In your husband's reality where he can't seem to hold down a job.

[Rachel Cruz]

I. Tell us about. What do you think?

[Ken Coleman]

You heard me. Okay, so I'll address that.

[Rachel Cruz]

I want to know the layoff situation.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

So let me get my tea.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Let me remind you, he has not. This is. These are her words. He has not consistently held a job for the last three years due to company Layoffs. False. If I had a buzzer sound, I would hit the buzzer. It should be worded. He has not consistently held a job for the last three years due to his lack of effort. Now, now what I'm not disputing is that the guy's been laid off maybe multiple times over a three year period. But when someone is not consistently holding a job down for anything longer than six months, it's an effort issue and that's going to cause a little stir with some people. Let me explain. In the American economy as of today, one can go work. It may not be the career that you got educated in or that you want to be in, but I can promise you that if I'm shown the door later today after the show, which the jury's still out, I'm not going to be without work for three years. No matter what happens, I am going to work somewhere and I will make 20, 22, 25 an hour at a bare minimum. Not because I'm great or I'm special or uniquely talented, because I have a pulse. Am I making a clear point? And so there's zero reason for him to go 36 months. And I'm putting it that way on purpose without consistent income, you know, and I have a heart for this. It's what I've been doing the last seven years at Ramsey Solutions on the Ken Coleman show as coaching people who aren't where they want to be professionally. But there is no excuse for a man that has a wife and a child to go three years without consistent income. Three years with industry volatility. Sure, that's happened. So I want to make sure that the critics are really hearing what I'm saying. I, I'm not saying he hasn't gone through layoffs and maybe his industry or what, what. But you can go do something and we're talking about $30,000 a year is what she's making.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right. And he makes about 30,000 when he.

[Ken Coleman]

I got to get my calculator out here. I'll give it to you. But I believe that 20 to $25 an hour range gets you there. It does. It's, it's well over that, that. Let's just go $20 an hour times 40 hours a week for those. It's 800, says 3200amonth. So that does it. Don't tell me that in America today that you can't go get a $20 an hour job or a $15 an hour job and then a 16 an hour job. We split my point Is I'm going to take care of my wife and I'm going to take care of my baby.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Ken Coleman]

So that's what I think.

[Rachel Cruz]

Carissa, the issue here is not that there is a lack of opportunity out there for him to go do that so that you can.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Have the desires met. It the ball, in a sense is in the relational court of your marriage, not the financial. Because there is something that he. A mental block. He has whatever his thing is. And that's your issue. And now to get a man to see that, a husband to see that who is in a belief system, obviously that is not that that is counter. It is. Is difficult.

[Ken Coleman]

And so you know what the bro needs? He needs some grit. Good old fashioned grit. Hey, dude, I know it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Go landscape.

[Ken Coleman]

I know it sucks.

[Rachel Cruz]

Go do some manual labor. That's what I would tell.

[Ken Coleman]

Get some grit, man. I wish I could. I wish I had a big fake. What do you call those things? I'm blanking out. You give people a shot. What do you call it?

[Rachel Cruz]

A syringe.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you. I need a big giant fake syringe, James. And it's filled with grit. I'll get right on that. Thank you. And I just bring out. I bring it out on calls like this. I know this is horrible and they're making fun of me, but it's making the point. And I just hold it up. I go, you need a shot of this, my man. Help this woman out so that she go home and take care of her babies. Because we've talked about this before on this show and I'd like to say.

[Rachel Cruz]

This is what this is, her desires.

[Ken Coleman]

Being a stay at home mom is the highest honor and the greatest job on the planet, period. That's what I think.

[Rachel Cruz]

I love it. My heart's that, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Amen. Hallelujah.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, let me tell you, it's harder work to do that than to do what I'm doing right here chatting with adults.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. And by the way, that's not. That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Seriously, it is. It is very difficult.

[Ken Coleman]

And by the way, that's not to.

[Rachel Cruz]

Say to be a stay at home.

[Ken Coleman]

Mom that I knock professional women because every time we do stuff like listen.

[Rachel Cruz]

My wife gotta hear both sides.

[Ken Coleman]

My wife, different seasons, was working outside of the home.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Ken Coleman]

One of my dearest friends on the planet, my little sis right here, she does it. I'm not knocking. I'm just saying we got to get to a point where there's no shame.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well. And I think for Stay at home, mom. And the ideal within a marriage, family unit like this is that both people individually that your desires, your needs, your wants, your passions in life, all of it, like, how do we both, how do we, how are we able to live in a world where both of you have that and you can support each other within it? Right. So that's holistically, I think what makes part of a really healthy, beautiful relationship when that is in play. It doesn't happen all the time. It doesn't happen every season. But when you're kind of in that rhythm.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

And so when you can do that for each other. So for him, that's what I would say to him is like there is a level of sacrifice. Yes. And in reality and grown up world that you're an adult with kids, like you have to go have a job, like you have to make money. And then if your wife is able to stay at home after you go and do those things, because that's her desire, like that's beautiful. Like that, that is something that we should all be reaching for to do the things that we want. Right.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a great point. I know that you and I could speak to this, but there are many times in our two marriages where each one of our spouses has made sacrifices for us to do what we get to do.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right. Yes. With the travel and the speaking. Yes, totally.

[Ken Coleman]

We could go down a list. And I think it's really important what you said, that there are times where one of the spouse has got to make some massive sacrifices for the other spouse, knowing that your season is coming and it's just part of the deal. I believe that both can have what they want. They may not get it at the same time.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, that's right. But when you can set it up. So, yeah, so it's a really good point. It's a long winded, long winded process. But that's.

[Ken Coleman]

And I want to say this too. We're talking about, in this case, $30,000. We're talking about. I'm giving this guy a hard time with my fake grit syringe and all the stuff I'm saying. But he could, he could get to the point pretty quickly where she could come home.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Well, in their bills, I mean, they owe, you know, 3700 on medical, which, you know, it's not 15,000. It's a car payment.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a big chunk.

[Rachel Cruz]

But if 300amonth in the, in the scope of life, though, is what I'm Saying is that they could manage. Well, this is manageable. Right. This isn't two car loans that are $900 each, a student loan, $15,000 in medical debt. You know, 90,000 is too like it's not this like overwhelming about. This is a very doable. It's gonna have to be. Yeah. Does he make the decision to do it or not? So.

[Ken Coleman]

Boy needs some grit.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good luck to you. Carissa. We'll be mailing out that the syringe.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. James has already got one. He's googled it. It's going to be ordered. It's going to be great. Gonna be a great prop.

[Rachel Cruz]

America's gonna love it for a great hour. Thanks to everyone in the booth and thank you. Ken Coleman will be back.

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[Rachel Cruz]

Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author Ken Coleman. And we'll be answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225 and we'll chat about your life, your money, anything and everything. So give us a call up first we have Hunter starting us off in Oklahoma City. Hey Hunter, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi, how are you guys?

[Rachel Cruz]

We are doing great. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I just finished the complete money makeover book. Me and my husband have been living off of a budget for the past year or so and we were able to pay off our cards last year. And now we're just working on the remainder, which is our student debt. So we currently have $39,000 in student debt. Part of that's my husband's, and then the other part is mine. And we. $20,000 in savings right now. So I'm just wondering, would it be better to pay off, like, my husband's student loan right now, which is $15,000. So pay it off right now. Or if we stay on track with our budget, we would be able to pay off the remainder within, like, pay it off altogether within the next four months and just pay it off, like, at one time. And I'm just wondering, which one do you guys think would be better?

[Rachel Cruz]

So the question is, do you pay, you know, pay one of them off today because you have the money, or do you wait for four months and then pay them all off together? I would go ahead and pay it off. Yeah, go ahead and pay it today. I mean, I would. I would start that momentum, because as soon as you can hit the principal and get that lowered, then everything else ends up being more in your favor, even over the next four months. So I would. Yeah, I would for sure go ahead and pay some it off today. Get that momentum going.

[Ken Coleman]

So let me. Let me ask a question to you. What would keep you from paying the big chunk of it today? What's keeping you guys from doing that?

[Caller]

You know, we just. My husband just got a bonus, and I just got a raise within, like, the last, like, couple weeks, so just acquired, like, a large amount into our savings account, which is super exciting. And I don't think that there's anything that's, like, stopping us. We're both on the same page of, like, okay, we're so excited to pay off debt. Like, we're pumped about it because it can happen really soon. We've both been blessed immensely. But I think. I just think of how exciting it would be to just pay it off all at one time and then just be done with it. I think that that's just what's exciting to me is, like, oh, we could do it that way. But the other part is to just pay it off now and then pay off the other half later.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me tell you why. Let me tell you. And I love that answer, and I believe you. I think that's an honest answer. The challenge is the humanness in all of us. And so what happens? Or what could happen? Let me put it this way. What could happen? Rachel, at any point, tell me if you think this is off.

[Rachel Cruz]

I will always.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I know Like I even had to say that. But you got that money in the bank and it sits there. And the whole goal, it's earnest, it's honest, it's well intentioned. We're going to wait until we get the whole chunk of 39,000, then we're going to pay it off. It's going to be woo hoo and great fun. Okay? But you sit that money in the bank and keep looking at that, you wake up every day you wake up differently when you get a big chunk of change that goes in the account. You just do. You wake up, feels great. And I go, I wake up and I go, oh, I got X amount of dollars in the bank. And what happens is you get real comfortable with that money sitting in that account and then you don't want to actually have that money leave. I remember the first time we got a fully funded emergency fund years and years ago, when we first started this process, long before I worked for Dave, an emergency would come up and I was coming up with ways not to use it. To not use it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, totally.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, like we have a three, I'm making this up, $3,000 emergency, and I'm selling stuff, breaking my back, stressing out. And Stacy would go, we have the money. And I go, I know, but I don't want to pull it out.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, totally.

[Ken Coleman]

The account.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, totally.

[Ken Coleman]

And so just just being, I think, honest, the human condition is to hold on to that. And then life comes up and an opportunity comes up to do something. You go, oof. We could pay off the student loan debt, Rachel. Or we could go on this trip. And I think that's why we always say act now.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

Get the win today. And I mean today.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you're still going to feel great when you're paying off the 19,000. Right. You may be paying, you know, 4,000 next month, 5,000 the next. Like you're going to be chomping away at the 19,000 remaining and it's still going to continue to feel great. And that momentum, what Ken's saying, you just kind of keep on this track and this trajectory and you're going to do it. So, Hunter, you agree, you agree with.

[Ken Coleman]

That, by the way, we tend to.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sit on the 100%. Well, and people, hers is pretty short term being four months. Some people that are like, oh, I could wait 18 months for sure, don't do that because, yeah, a Christmas trip comes up with the family and you want to travel and you pull some, you know what I mean? Like, you end Up.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Rachel Cruz]

Not really sticking to the plan. So as much as you can, just staying on track helps your behaviors and the rhythms of your life. All right, up next we have. Is it Nadine in Chattanooga?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna say Nadine.

[Rachel Cruz]

Nadine. Did I. Yeah. Which one's right? I'm so sorry, Nadine.

[Ken Coleman]

That's why you have me. I'm always. Your pronunciation guy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Gosh, the fun.

[Ken Coleman]

That's why I'm here.

[Rachel Cruz]

Tough. All right, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey there. Thanks for having me. It's Nadine. Thank you. Weird pickle. In a sense, I inherited my family farm, my parents farm, and some money, and it excluded my siblings, and now they're. I. Well, two out of three of them are millionaires. So original will kind of mentioned like $10,000 each. And then I. My dad had mentioned after my mom passed that he's going to put the farm in a trust, the little pass through without probate, and he was going to change the will. I had no idea he'd cut out my siblings. And now they're all mad at me because they think I'm the one who did it.

[Ken Coleman]

All right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Interesting, no?

[Caller]

Yeah. So it's kind of like opposite of winning the lottery. You know, everyone wants to be your friend when you win, but when you inherit something, they feel like you're the bad person. Even if I were to. I mean, $10,000 is not going to make a huge difference in their lives.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is that all that's left? Is that what you're saying? Is that if you did split it four ways, is it just 10,000 to each person? Is that what it would be?

[Caller]

No, actually, they. That was. My parents were savers, so there was a little bit more than that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so what's your question for us? Is it what to do?

[Caller]

Yes. I mean, 10,000 seems so nominal to be petty about, but even if I were to give it to them, I feel like it's never enough. And.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, hold on, I'm still confused. And we have only about a minute here. Is the amount that was given to you, is how much it was over.

[Caller]

Well, with the farm and everything was like half million.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, where do you keep coming up with this $10,000 number? I don't understand.

[Caller]

That was in the original will that my dad had before my mom passed.

[Rachel Cruz]

And is that what they're wanting? Is that 10,000 or are they wanting a fourth of the 500,000?

[Caller]

That's the thing, I'm not sure.

[Ken Coleman]

But why don't you sit down with your siblings and have an honest conversation and go, guys, I had nothing to do with this. And that's why I want to have the conversation. What do you all prefer we do? What do you all think is fair if that's what what you want to do? Now, you got two directions. You can either say, I'm going to honor Dad's will and I'm going to deal with the fallout, or I don't want to deal with the fallout. I love my siblings. Let's get in a room and solve it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, we're all adults here. Let's figure it out pretty easy. And again, if they are competent, healthy people and you can do that, great.

[Ken Coleman]

Millionaires, too.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, it's true. Oh, I hope that helps. Thanks for the call.

[Ken Coleman]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, folks, we all have stories. The family and cultural stories that we were born into. The stories of the things that have happened to us, both good and bad. And the stories that we constantly tell ourselves. And while we can't go back and change any of our old stories, the world is waiting to see what you and I are gonna write next. As we enter 2025, I want to encourage you to examine your old stories and be intentional about the new ones you're writing. And I'm not talking about goals that are gonna be long gone by February. I'm talking about writing new stories that will change your life forever for the better. And if you're like me, therapy can be a great place to explore the old stories, even heal from them and begin to write new ones. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, I want you to consider my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with a licensed therapist when it works for your schedule, you just fill out a short online survey to get matched with the licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. So start writing a new story this month with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney I don't know about you.

[Rachel Cruz]

But I love the new year. It's a fresh start and I get to reflect on the good things I want to keep doing and the not so good things I want to change. And I know a lot of you are psyching yourself up thinking, okay, this year I've got to get my finances in order, and big goals like that are really exciting, but they can also be overwhelming. That's why it's so important to have a plan. So before you do anything else, start with a budget. Start with every dollar. I love everydollar because it's so easy to plan out your spending and keep track of it every month. Plus, most people free up on average $400 in their first budget to go towards their goals. Guys, this can be an amazing year. And if you choose just one good habit to start, choose budgeting. Download the EveryDollar budgeting app for free today. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Ken Coleman. And we're going to Wilmington, North, North Carolina and talking to Jeff. Hey, Jeff. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I'm powering through the baby steps. About halfway through baby step two, I'm paying off all my debts and I've gotten to my next smallest debt, which is my wife's student loans. The balance is about $8,500. And with our debt snowball, we can kill this in about four months. And I'm ready to do something. But there's a caveat that I can't find the answer to. So it went into default before we were married. And we have now entered a loan rehabilitation program with the Department of Education. And the deal is if we make nine months of consecutive payments, they'll remove the default status from the loans and transfer it back out to a normal servicer. So I'm left with two options. Either a, I can debt snowball this and kill it in four months, but I'm stuck with that word default of my credit history even though it's a paid in full account. Or I stretch it out, keep accruing that interest, and go through the program to remove the word default from my credit history and just do it that way. And I really don't know which one's more or I should say less harmful to me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, the only reason I'd be really concerned is if you were needing your credit score credit reports for a reason. Right. So the main reason someone would pull your credit score, obviously, is to go into more debt. Also your credit report. If you're looking for a new job, you know, maybe an employer pulls it, but if there's any situation they pull your credit report and you have another human that you're talking to and being able to discuss and talk through why that is, why it is and be able to explain it, then I would, I mean, I would get out. I don't like, I always hate playing the System game of trying to like, you know, figure our way through it because of this, that or that, you know what I mean? I, I like the idea of paying it off, being done with it, and then in the next 12 to 18 months, if someone pulls your credit report for a reason, to be able to actually have a human conversation about why that word defaulted is on there. And honestly, Jeff, when it comes to student loans and defaulting and all of that with COVID and everything that happened, like, you're not gonna be the only one either. Like, I mean, it's not like it's this, you know, thing now. It may drop, it may hurt your credit score. So if you guys are, you know, if you're gonna go borrow money, which I wouldn't suggest you do, then it could hurt that you know the loan process. But I don't want you doing that anyways.

[Caller]

Okay. You don't think it'll haunt me when I try to get a mortgage in a couple years?

[Rachel Cruz]

Not in a couple years. At that point, your credit score will basically be non existent. Because if you stop borrowing money after this and you're done with debt completely, your credit score will continue to actually get worse. Because the way the credit score is calculated, you need new debt recurring to continue and paying on it to keep that credit score high. So when you stop this process and anyone listening that is doing the debt snowball, always know this. Your credit score is going to go down until it gets to undetermined. It basically gets to zero. And then when you do that and go and buy a home, they're going to pull it and see that you don't have a credit score because you haven't borrowed money in over two years. And you can do what's called manual underwriting and get a mortgage that way.

[Caller]

Okay, thank you very much.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep, absolutely. Thanks for the call, Jeff. So that's, yeah, that, that's a big, that's a big. Reason I get so annoyed with the, with this whole industry is they like make you play these games, right? And if you're like, I'm not playing your games and I'm going to figure out a way to actually do the plan that I want to do. And I want to get out of debt in 4 months and not wait 9, 10, 11 months to play this game. It's so frustrating because a lot of people, I mean, it's a very legitimate question that Jeff asked, asked. And I think a lot of people get in those situations and they're like, you know, what do I do? But when you just kind of don't play their game. It's amazing that you can still survive. And.

[Ken Coleman]

And really, a different form of consolidation, the best consolidation is the baby steps and the snowball, really, the debt snowball does. It's like you're consolidating your money towards that debt. That's where the greatest momentum is. It's not through one of these consolidation programs. It's like, all right, I'm going to consolidate my own payments and really work that debt snowball. That is absolutely the number one psychological and financial way to pay off debt, period. It just works.

[Rachel Cruz]

Up next, we have Stacy in Philadelphia. Hey, Stacy. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for having me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

My question. So I have a bit of problems. Me and my husband, we recently purchased a house over the summer, and we've gotten into a lot of pretty much debt, even more than we had before just from purchasing the home with renovations. So we want to know what steps should we prioritize to manage and pay off our current debt, given we have, you know, the renovation loan that we took out, our student loans and car payments, and even with credit card debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, will you give me a list of the numbers of everything? So, like, how much in credit card debt, how much in car debt? Everything.

[Caller]

Okay. So the car, we owe about 15,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

Student loans, it's about 130 for the both of us.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. And that's just our undergraduate loan. And then our renovation loans, we took out about 70,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then with credit card debt in total, with both my husband and I, it's about, I would say, 60,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

What were you using the credit cards for?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we used the credit cards. Just a little bit backstory when we took out the loans was to pay a contractor to do work in our home, but the contractor did not finish everything that he did not actually complete what he promised to do. So we ended up having to use our credit card to cover a lot of the other expenses. We had other contractors and even people to come in and fix some of the issues that he had left with the house, along with just buying appliances and everything.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, what's your combined income?

[Caller]

75. It would. It would be close. With his two jobs, roughly about 180,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And you said that's for our undergrad when I asked you about student loans. Do you guys have more student loans? That's not undergrad or you're just saying we just have our undergrad degrees?

[Caller]

Yeah, just our undergrad degree.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, perfect. All right, so, Stacy, I Need to know your why. What's making you guys want to clean all this up?

[Caller]

Because.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, you kind of got a mess on your hands. And what's. What kind of got you to this point of oh gosh, we got to start paying this off?

[Caller]

Well, one, he ended up getting a part time job and it's just been a lot where all of our money is just going towards bills, where we find that we don't have any other wiggle room to do anything else.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And then we just. It's march will make us celebrate our two year anniversary since we've gotten married. So we're pretty young couple and my husband would like to go back to school eventually and go into medical school. And he has that dream since he was a child. So essentially we would love to pay off our debt so we can start living our lives again.

[Ken Coleman]

What's his degree in?

[Caller]

Like right now we're just drowning.

[Ken Coleman]

What world is he in right now? You said he's got a full time job and a part time job.

[Caller]

Yes, they're both in the health field.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And it's the part time job just to help pay these bills.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, okay, I got you. Well, you guys are gonna have to dig out of this. Yeah, we got a plan.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I mean, Stacy, here's that. One of the reasons I asked you why is because you're gonna have to feel that really deeply in this process because you got, you guys have, you know, you, you are gonna have to have a lot of intentionality because there's a lot of debt here. And so what you're going to, you look at and I'm just running the numbers, I'm like if you guys made 180 and even if you went and got an extra job and made a thousand dollars more, right. You could get up to, to 192. Like you could, you guys could be on the brink of, of 200, 000 income and completely scorched earth in your lifestyle. Not going on vacation, not going out to eat, doing zero more furniture buying, no renovations, no trips with friends, no celebration on the two year. Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. And if you can do that and you guys could live on let's say 70,000 a year, you got 120 to 130 freed up. And you can sit there, pay off that car. You go down the list. So it's the car, it's the credit cards, it's the. And then next is the reno and then the student loans, you go smallest to largest. And if you have multiple credit cards in that then option I would split those up where you have each individual card within that debt snowball again. Listing all of your debt, smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything, Stacy. And attack that smallest debt first and working your way out of this. It's going to take some time and intentionality, but you can do this.

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[Rachel Cruz]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Coming up next, we have Jana in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey Jana. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi there.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hello. Hello. How can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Well, I'm making this phone call a little earlier than I anticipated. My husband and I have worked really hard and paid off our home. We'll have paid off our home this January. We have our last like $5,000 left on our home and we'll be paid at the end of the month.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh. That's amazing. I mean, paid off and everything.

[Caller]

Yeah, just 5,000 left. However, I'm really actually I wish I could be celebrating and I'm so upset right now. My husband just left our home at 3 o'clock this morning to drive across the country to buy a brand New truck. I guess this is his way of celebrating. Like we haven't even done it yet. Unfortunately, we're gonna have to take out a car loan for this brand new truck that he is traveling across the country floor. And I'm just so angry and also hurt. This is not something I agreed on.

[Ken Coleman]

This is a total surprise.

[Caller]

I just, I just feel I'm so mad and angry.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And what a big, you know, what a big accomplishment we had. And now we're just, I feel like we're just that clean slate that we have is just being pounded on with another with more debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so was he on board all this time? Like he's been with you?

[Caller]

Yeah, we've been. We are the dream team. Yes. I don't know what.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, when did you find out about this car purchase? Was this like yesterday?

[Caller]

Forever? Like forever. He wants his port, you know the Raptor, like Dave Ramsey and.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, this.

[Caller]

And so I always am like after our house is paid off. After our house is paid off. After house is paid off and obviously when we can afford it. Right. Not taking out a loan. And he just.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so if I heard you right, okay, so if I heard you right, he got up this morning at 3:00am today and, and told you hey, I'm heading out and you say, I mean please don't.

[Rachel Cruz]

And he says, you don't even know.

[Ken Coleman]

He doesn't discuss this at all. He just literally says matter of fact, I'm going across the country to get a wrapped like Dave Ramsey.

[Caller]

I mean we've had lots of talks on this truck and he knows I don't agree and he says I'll never agree. I don't handle well, big purchases. Well, I just paid off a $300,000 home I can handle. Big purchases I just can handle.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, so, so okay, you got to give us a little bit more here. I'm sorry. I'm going to dig a little bit, Rachel. Okay, that's fine. All right, so this conversation, he's been on board and paying off the house and the debt and the baby steps, but how long has the. I'm going to go into debt for a raptor? How long has that conversation been going on and when was the last time it was had before 3am this morning.

[Caller]

Right. So maybe for the past two months he's like I'm just gonna do it. I don't care what it takes. And you say I know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not on board with you. Not at all. I don't Agree.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So while today was the day, he'd been kind of tipping his hand that he was going to go do this and I'm going to go get a loan. How big is the loan?

[Caller]

Well, I probably about. He's going to trade in his truck. We had another $30,000, and so I think it'll be around 30,000.

[Ken Coleman]

And how much is left on the house again? Five.

[Caller]

Yeah. So I really, in the big scheme of things, will pay it off quickly. I'm just angry.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much, how much do you guys. Well, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's, yeah. And the anger and the hurt comes from not being hurt at all. And that your opinion doesn't matter, that there's no pause in the person you're doing life with, your partner, your spouse, that there's no back and forth. It's this, like, dominant I, I, one way. And, you know, I'm not going to listen to you. I'm going to do what I want to do that is hurtful in anything. Right. And this could be a husband calling us and his wife's like, I don't care. I'm going to go do what I want to do. Like, I mean, it doesn't, you know, it's not a, look, you know, a wife, husband thing. It's a, it's a spouse.

[Caller]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

Like, you're, you're Rachel and I commiserate with you. We're here to listen, here to encourage you. But I can tell you right now, this is a, this is a marriage therapy session or two or three or six.

[Caller]

I'm serious. That's how I feel today for sure. I just.

[Rachel Cruz]

Does this sound like Kim Jana? I'm curious. The, like, is this. Oh, yeah, I could see him doing this.

[Caller]

I, I, I can't believe he's driving across country for this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, not that, but I'm just saying, not listening to you. Not the actual idea of buying a truck, but this idea that he would go make a decision that you so adamantly do not want him to make, and he still makes it. Yeah. Does that happen in other parts of your marriage?

[Caller]

No, not at all. Not at all. We have a great marriage and great relationship.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. You know, you know what I think? I think this guy has been on board and he was like, okay, this all makes a lot of sense. But what also makes sense is after we do all this, we can handle the truck payment, and I'm gonna go do it. He's been telegraphing this for months.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. How much do you guys Make a year.

[Caller]

I brought in, I think, 137 last year, and he haven't finished up his yet, but it's between 140 and 140. Life.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't think this is a crisis based on what I'm hearing, but I do think this is a. This is a marital. No, listen, I'm trying to validate your feelings. Everything you're feeling. I completely understand. And I. I completely understand, you know, why you're feeling that. I think you should feel that. But I don't think that there's only so much. And I'm saying this philosophically, you know, there's only so much, Rachel, I can do today other than say, man, we feel you. I don't think that's right. I don't think it's a good marriage move. Should have talked it through. Should have come up with an alternative plan. He knows how much this means to you. But then I will also say the reason that. Why I believe you guys need to sit with a marriage therapist is because I can also see. I don't agree with his action at all, but I think I'm seeing a window into this.

[Rachel Cruz]

This.

[Ken Coleman]

This dude, and I think he thinks it's justified. And I. Here's what I would say. Not knowing him at all, and if I met him for the first time, I said, hey, Jana just called me on the show, and she told me what happened. Hey, listen, bro, I don't think you think that's as big a deal as it is. It's a big deal. I think he.

[Rachel Cruz]

He's been. He's minimized it.

[Ken Coleman]

I think so. And I think he's. Because he's justified and because he makes almost 300,000 crunch numbers, we're paid off the house. We have no debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

We'll pay it off in two months or whatever. Like, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

In his mind. And I'm not defending him.

[Rachel Cruz]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

But I am trying to make maybe Jana, you feel a little bit better. I think this is a situation where he is completely unaware of how he is truly making you feel.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I think he's clueless, and I'm not insulting him. I'm saying we are all that way in relationships at times where we are in a place where we're not healthy enough or we're not attached enough that we don't realize what we're doing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. In the truck conversations that you guys have been having in the last few months, Jenna, have you said, I would love for you to get this truck, let's map it out. And in May, let's take a road trip and go pick up this truck together. I'm so excited for this truck for you. Like, have you. Did you have any excitement and celebratory ness towards this truck for him at any level?

[Caller]

No, Rachel, I did not.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. No, that's fair. I appreciate your honesty. I appreciate your honesty. Yes. So I think that's the. I think that's going to be the relational rub that you guys are feeling, is he doesn't feel.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm assuming we're all guessing here that you, that you are so gung ho on this, you don't want to spend any money. You're fear based. You're scarcity minded. Life is fine. We make $300,000 a year. In the grand scheme of things. Yeah. Yes. In six months, none of this is gonna matter. Jana, have some fun. I can't. I'm gonna. Now I'm gonna have to go make my own fun and enjoy this. And again, not the right move. Not the right move, but right. That's his mindset. So you guys have to come together. And that's where, Jana, I would really push you and him. I hope he. I hope he listens to this call that you have to embrace the differences of your spouse and that your spouse's differences is not the enemy. And in fact, they can make you a healthier, rounded person. Because he's going to bring things to the table, Jana, that may make you uncomfortable. Not debts, but the fun and the spending. And he's going to bring that. And you need to embrace life and he's going to help you do that. And then also, he doesn't need to be a freaking. I won't say it. And just like basically middle finger your wife and go in the middle of the night and go get a truck. That was not okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I. I gotta add this. Our friend, mutual friend, Ian Cron. We were together yesterday. He said when we are upset at somebody over their behavior, we're really irritated. He goes, it reveals in us something where we can grow. And I'm adding that onto what? Your advice and your insight. I thought that was really good.

[Rachel Cruz]

We're gonna leave it there.

[Ken Coleman]

Pay this truck off.

[Rachel Cruz]

Thanks, Jan. Pay the truck off.

[Ken Coleman]

You'll be okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sorry, though. Get a therapist in there. It'll be good.

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[Rachel Cruz]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. When it comes to your money, Ken, one of the largest purchases that majority of people make is their home.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

And when it comes to buying and selling your home, it can be very overwhelming. Right. The whole housing market, the industry, when it comes to real estate, it can be really hard to tackle, especially alone. And so that's why we created Ramsey's real estate home base. It's a place with all the tools and resources that you need to be prepared when you buy and sell your home and to give you the confidence that you're doing it the right way. So there you're going to find calculators, a start to finish guide, multiple of them to help you how to articles, a podcast, a book and even a video course all packed with actionable steps to help you navigate this process of buying and selling your home. So if you're ready to take the next step towards your home goals with peace of mind, make sure to go to ramseysolutions.com realestate or click the link in the description if you are listening on YouTube or podcast. All right, up next, we're going to Diego in Sacramento. Hey, Diego, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

My wife and I just. Yes, sir. Yeah, my wife and I just had a baby and we've been having a discussion about opening a college account for him at 529. And my wife's on the side of saving as much as we can, enough to pay for his whole college tuition. And I'm more on the side of maybe not doing that just because, you know, for me, when I went to school, I didn't have that. And I think it built a lot of character in myself. You know, my parents, they provided a place for me to sleep. You know, they didn't charge me any rent and you know, they provided food for me every day. So I felt like I was really blessed in what they gave me, you know, and what they could. And I felt like it, you know, it builds some character. Yeah, I worked through school and it, you know, showed me like, you know, the value of money and how, you know, you know, what I'm paying for, for school, you know, it just showed me the value in it. I just wanted to get your guys opinion on whether Maybe there's like a middle point between my wife and I, or maybe you should just avoid it altogether or. Yeah, saving all of it that we can. And that's a good thing.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I think this comes down to Rachel, how big of a stressor this is for you guys. When you talk about it, are you both pretty adamant and it gets kind of tense and there's a lot of separation or you guys, a couple of more conversations from going, okay, I see it your way. I mean, what's the real tension level now on this?

[Caller]

Oh, super low. I mean, we're, we're very good about, you know, communicating. We've never had a problem with that.

[Ken Coleman]

So when you told her your point of view, did she agree with you and go, that's interesting. Or does she go, eh, it's too old school, I want to help?

[Rachel Cruz]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

She says, yeah, pretty much what you're saying.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Like she, she would prefer, you know, us having more, you know, better means than our parents did. She's saying, like, we should, we should.

[Rachel Cruz]

Afford something we didn't have. So let me tell you, Diego, your, the way you're going about this in your, your heart and your thought process, I really love, because I do think that our kids, Kids have to have grit. Our kids have to have a level of struggle. Our kids have to be able to know how to appreciate things, not be entitled, know how to work hard, right? Like, all of these elements of who they're going to be, the character part of them we all want as parents, right? Or at least I hope parents want that for their kids. And that's what you're wanting, right? And so what you're thinking is you're going to do it through the means of paying for their own college. So where I would challenge you is, is are there other places that they can learn those same character qualities and, and, and also be able to have their college paid for? Because, Diego, my parents paid for my college. And I'll tell you, there was stipulations around it. And so we had to go to an. In state school, we had to graduate in four years. And that was kind of the main barriers. So I remember thinking, you know, I wanted to go to Auburn University. And I remember dad being like, all right, well, calculate the tuition and the difference between a school in Tennessee, a public university in Tennessee, minus the tuition of a school in Alabama. You pay the difference. And I looked and I was like, no, thanks, Go Vols. I'll go and stay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And then it was, all right, well, now I have to take 15 hours every semester while some of my friends were taking nine. So, you know, because people will graduate a semester late or a year later and they kind of just like work their way through, I had to be on a. You know what I mean? Like, I, I had to have that schedule. So I think it's a misnomer to generalize. If your school is paid for, you're not going to have hard work and grit. I don't think that's true. I think it's a way that you feel that Winston, my husband, you know, he had to work his way through, not the tuition part, but everything else he had to figure out. He had to have a job to pay rent and pay for food and all of that. Right. So, but, but I. So I think that there are ways to accomplish what you want for your kid. Kids. And it may look different. And I'll give you one more example. Now be quiet and let Ken jump in. But like for us right now, Diego, we have a nine, seven and five year old and Winston sold his lawnmower about three years ago. And we have a lawn company mow our lawn. And he really, really struggled with our kids not growing up watching him mow the lawn because he had a lawn care business in college. And he was like, I want my kids to see, physically, I want. You know, he was so hard on that, on himself, on that. But then as we talked, he was like, but right now, my time is better spent with them on Saturdays than going and doing that. What are ways now that we almost have to manufacture a life where they don't get what they want? They're gonna have to work and do things to get what they want. So does that make sense? I just don't want to over generalize that if your college is paid for, you're going to be some spoiled, entitled brat. Because let me tell you, there probably are some spoiled, entitled brat that's whose college is paid for and isn't paid for, but it's more of the character of who they are and.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And maybe it's revealed.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, and I'm glad you really segued nicely for me. You didn't even know. I'm gonna throw a different angle at you, Diego, because on one hand, I love the fact that you're going, I don't, I don't owe my kids a college education and I don't think you do. But I'm not going to qualify this. I'm just going to say this. And this comes from experience. Experience, Diego, just Because you worked your way through college and you took all the benefits that you obviously did, doesn't mean that your child or children are going to do the same as you. They aren't you, number one. They really aren't. They aren't you. They will have some of your DNA, but they are not you. And they will have different experiences, they will have different environments growing up, up. And I think one of the challenges that we face, and I'm just being really vulnerable here, that I've had to learn as a father of three, is that the things that I did, the things that I learned, the way that I handled life is so unique to me. And I know I'm saying something that's completely obvious, but I think we forget this. And I would just say that in this case, if you played this out the way that you desire, let's say your wife just went, I love that, Diego, let's do that. That there's a really high, high probability that one or both or all of your kids, however many you have, won't deal with it the way that you dealt with it. And they may go, dad's out of his mind, the old coot. He's a goofball. And I'm going to go get a student loan and. Because I can. And they get it done so effortlessly. And the very thing that you idealized and kind of. That this is how I see it going. It would even break your heart. And so. So to that end, I would say if you can fund it, you should as an option in the 529 as we teach. I'll give it back to my partner here. It's very. It's flexible as to how you can use those funds for lots of qualifications. Because the world. Here's the other thing.

[Rachel Cruz]

The world's changing.

[Ken Coleman]

The world is changing so quickly right now. What will higher ed look like when these babies are to that age? You and I have zero clue what it's going to look like. So I hope that perspective helps you. I don't think it's as easy as you just going, this is how I want it to be. Because that's how it was for me. And I get that. If anybody gets that, believe me, I actually talk like that sometimes. You know me well, I'm trying to be transparent.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I think that's true. And I think. And again, I want to reiterate, Diego, the sentiment of what you're longing for your kids to have is so good. Like that is so good. Because we want our kids.

[Ken Coleman]

And you're right to be other ways.

[Rachel Cruz]

To do it but I think that there is, I'm like there's, there's different other and there's so much between and like have them pay for their car when they're 60, right. I mean like there's things you can implement have them try and along the.

[Ken Coleman]

Way but sport a hobby, let them.

[Rachel Cruz]

Fail and they're going to and the world's hard enough in general. Right. I'm like they're, they're, they're gonna bump up against it. But I think you can create an environment with your within your home between now and 18 that creates, you know, I, I, I knock on wood. I believe this and I hope it's true. You know, not perfect kids, but kids that you are able to shape under your household and you as a parent get to put some of those guardrails in place. And if you give them everything they want, are they going to be more spoiled? Sure. If they got to work and figure out and problem solve then that's going to be good for them too. So I think there's ways you can do it. But thanks for the call, Diego. Thanks for all the guys in the booth. Thank you. Ken Coleman. Thank you America. We'll be back.