The White House Doesn’t Decide Your Future—You Do

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "The White House Doesn’t Decide Your Future—You Do"

Release Date: July 16, 2025

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey, along with co-host George Kamel, delves into various financial challenges faced by listeners, offering practical advice grounded in Ramsey's renowned financial principles. The episode underscores the importance of personal responsibility in shaping one's financial future, irrespective of external circumstances or government actions.

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1. Managing a Partner's Gambling Addiction

Caller: Rebecca from Sarasota, Florida
Timestamp: [00:49] – [06:43]

Issue: Rebecca is grappling with her husband's recent discovery of a gambling problem, which has led him to mismanage their finances. Despite having a combined income of $10,000 per month, her husband gambled away $14,000 in a single month, resulting in significant debt and financial strain.

Dave's Advice:

• Immediate Action: "We need to start talking about getting him in some counseling" ([06:49]).
• Long-Term Solutions: Treat the situation as one would treat a substance addiction, involving counseling, Gamblers Anonymous, and possibly marriage counseling.
• Financial Management: Recommend setting up a joint budget where both partners agree on the allocation of every dollar, eliminating surprises like unexpected gambling losses.

Notable Quote:
"You need to treat this like it's very serious, honey, because it is." – Dave Ramsey ([06:44])

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2. Escrow Shortages and Mortgage Payments

Caller: Kate from Chicago
Timestamp: [22:52] – [29:05]

Issue: Kate is facing an escrow shortage of $1,200 due to rising property taxes and homeowners insurance, resulting in increased monthly mortgage payments.

Dave's Advice:

• Understanding Escrow: Explain that escrow shortages occur when property taxes and insurance premiums increase.
• Immediate Solution: Pay the $1,200 shortage to prevent further increases in monthly payments.
• Preventative Measures: Regularly review property tax assessments and insurance rates, and request mid-year escrow reviews to avoid future shortages.

Notable Quote:
"If you don't come home and say, 'I lost $500 at Texas Hold' Em last night,' you avoid surprises because you've made a commitment at the beginning of the month." – Dave Ramsey ([02:30])

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3. Side Hustles and Legitimate Online Opportunities

Caller: J.D. from Dayton, Ohio
Timestamp: [28:30] – [40:00]

Issue: J.D. seeks advice on finding a legitimate online side hustle to supplement his income from DJing, having found most opportunities to be scams.

Dave's Advice:

• Identify Unique Skills: Encourage leveraging specific talents such as freelance writing, editing, online tutoring, or voiceover work.
• Avoid Scams: Warn against opportunities that promise easy money, emphasizing that genuine side hustles require effort and skill.
• Recommended Platforms: Suggest using reputable platforms like Fiverr to offer services and build a client base.

Notable Quote:
"When you think about how many people want what you're looking for, it's everybody. Everybody wants to sit on their couch and make money. That's the problem." – Dave Ramsey ([29:14])

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4. Transitioning from Debt to Financial Freedom

Caller: Elizabeth from Nashville
Timestamp: [33:10] – [43:00]

Issue: Elizabeth and her husband are nearing the payoff of their mortgage but struggle with transitioning from a frugal lifestyle to enjoying their newfound financial freedom.

Dave's Advice:

• Rebuilding Spending Confidence: Gradually reintroduce discretionary spending to rebuild the "spending muscle" by setting intentional budgets for enjoyment.
• Emotional Adjustment: Emphasize that shifting from scarcity to abundance mindset requires time and intentional practice.
• Balanced Budgeting: Incorporate line items in the budget specifically for fun and generosity to avoid feelings of deprivation.

Notable Quote:
"Your spending muscle has not worked in a long time. You got to build that muscle back up again by doing some spending." – Dave Ramsey ([34:35])

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5. Handling Unexpected Job Loss and Financial Setbacks

Caller: Danny from Chicago
Timestamp: [44:23] – [63:27]

Issue: Danny lost his pastoral job unexpectedly, depleting his emergency fund and facing financial uncertainty while awaiting income from a temporary lifeguarding job.

Dave's Advice:

• Avoid Desperate Measures: Discourage taking low-paying jobs like McDonald's out of desperation, emphasizing the importance of aiming for career goals aligned with his education and skills.
• Career Planning: Encourage pursuing opportunities in his field, utilizing networking, and leveraging his master's degree to secure a position that aligns with his long-term aspirations.
• Debt Management: Continue focusing on debt repayment once stable income is restored, advising perseverance and strategic financial planning.

Notable Quote:
"You need to treat this like it's very serious, honey, because it is. You can't count on him to manage money because he can't do math." – Dave Ramsey ([06:43])

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6. Tax Implications of Informal Business Payments

Caller: Ava from Indiana
Timestamp: [65:09] – [70:30]

Issue: Ava and her husband receive payments directly from their band without establishing a formal business entity, leading the IRS to believe they have extra income and demanding back taxes.

Dave's Advice:

• Legal Compliance: Urge filing amended tax returns and issuing 1099s to band members to properly report income and expenses.
• Professional Guidance: Recommend consulting a tax professional to rectify past filings and ensure future compliance.
• Business Structuring: Advise formalizing the business structure, such as forming an LLC, to clearly separate personal and business finances.

Notable Quote:
"They can ask politely and this could end the band. But I don't think they have any legal standing to require the band members to help them pay taxes." – Dave Ramsey ([66:42])

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7. Investment Strategies and Homeownership

Caller: Emma from Minneapolis
Timestamp: [121:25] – [126:08]

Issue: Emma and her husband are in their early 30s, earn a combined $75,000, and are saving for a down payment while balancing investments.

Dave's Advice:

• Prioritize Savings: Advise focusing on saving for a down payment before increasing investment contributions.
• Strategic Planning: Recommend not taking on additional debt and ensuring investments align with long-term homeownership goals.
• Compound Interest: Highlight the benefits of steady investing while saving for significant financial milestones like buying a home.

Notable Quote:
"At your age, you're going to be fine. You're on a good track. Start attacking those debts, smallest to largest." – Dave Ramsey ([123:12])

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8. Leasing vs. Buying a Vehicle for Business

Caller: Jessica from Los Angeles
Timestamp: [117:20] – [125:55]

Issue: Jessica, a partner at a law firm, is considering whether to lease or purchase a car using business funds and a K-1 form for tax purposes.

Dave's Advice:

• Avoid Leasing: Strongly advise against leasing vehicles, labeling it the most expensive way to operate a car.
• Buy with Cash: Recommend purchasing vehicles outright to eliminate ongoing costs and depreciation.
• Financial Responsibility: Emphasize the importance of aligning business expenditures with long-term financial health and avoiding unnecessary debt.

Notable Quote:
"A lease is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle, and a tax write-off doesn’t make it smart." – Dave Ramsey ([102:54])

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9. Overcoming Emotional Financial Decisions

Caller: Myra from Virginia Beach
Timestamp: [112:30] – [126:08]

Issue: Myra, recently transitioned from active duty military to retirement, is struggling with anxiety about savings due to past financial traumas and seeks advice on managing her newfound income.

Dave's Advice:

• Debt Repayment Focus: Encourage attacking all forms of debt aggressively, including HELOCs, regardless of personal or business categorization.
• Structured Plan: Advocate for using the debt snowball method to systematically eliminate debts from smallest to largest.
• Emotional Healing: Address the importance of overcoming financial anxiety by building a robust emergency fund and maintaining disciplined financial habits.

Notable Quote:
"Debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk 100% of the time." – Dave Ramsey ([113:07])

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10. Transitioning to Independent Living

Caller: Emma from Seattle
Timestamp: [116:15] – [125:29]

Issue: Emma, a teacher about to receive a substantial raise, contemplates moving out of her parents' basement into an apartment.

Dave's Advice:

• Encourage Independence: Support the decision to move out as a natural progression toward financial independence and personal growth.
• Financial Readiness: Confirm that with her raise and lack of debt, Emma is well-positioned to afford independent living without jeopardizing her financial stability.
• Balanced Budgeting: Advise maintaining a balance between enjoying increased income and continuing disciplined savings and investment practices.

Notable Quote:
"You're going to be wealthy and just because... these are the things we try to teach people to do that we can't get them to do, to work together, to be aligned, to have discuss about big things like this." – Dave Ramsey ([125:29])

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Key Takeaways:

• Personal Responsibility: Individuals have the power and responsibility to shape their financial futures through disciplined planning and decision-making.
• Debt Management: Aggressively tackling debt, regardless of its source, is crucial for financial freedom.
• Avoiding Financial Traps: Caution against leveraging debt for business expansions or personal indulgences that can lead to long-term financial strain.
• Balanced Financial Planning: Emphasize the importance of balancing saving, investing, and enjoying financial successes responsibly.

Notable Overall Quote:

"The only way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus." – Dave Ramsey ([125:29])

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This episode of The Ramsey Show reinforces the significance of taking proactive steps in managing personal and business finances, addressing emotional and relational aspects of financial decisions, and maintaining a long-term perspective to achieve sustained wealth and financial security.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Number one, best selling author Ramsey personality George K. Camel is my co host today. He's also the co host of Smart Money Happy Hour and the host of the George Camel show. Be sure and check all of those things out on the Ramsey Network, on YouTube and anywhere else fine shows are shown up first is going to be Rebecca in Sarasota, Florida. Hi, Rebecca, how are you?

[George Kamel]

I'm good.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[George Kamel]

My husband and I have been working on the baby steps. We have not. We have a combined checking account, but only funds that go in there are our mortgage. I'm personally on one in three. The thing that we are struggling with is my husband is not very good with money. So I'm very hesitant to combine all of our money into one account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What do you mean he's not good with money?

[George Kamel]

He's. He's just not very good with managing it. He, in the past couple months discovered that he had a gambling issue. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that sounds very serious.

[George Kamel]

Oh, yeah. So I'm a little nervous.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is the. That's not, that's different than managing money. A gambling issue is more like a problem or a recreational activity. Which is it?

[George Kamel]

Well, I just recently discovered it. It's been going on for a couple months. So I had a conversation, brought it to his attention. I am under the impression that it stopped. So I'm hoping that, you know, what.

[Caller]

Proof do you have that it stopped?

[George Kamel]

Not a whole lot. Just it's a gut feeling.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys are very, very disconnected from each other. And so the way you solve this is usually there is one nerd in the family and one free spirit in the family. It's obvious you're the nerd and he's the free spirit. Okay. But that doesn't necessarily mean that someone is quote unquote, bad at money just because they're not highly detailed. But what they can do is keep the their word. And that would be that the two of you sit down together, go over a budget before the month begins and agree on where every one of our dollars is going, which would not include gambling, according to you. Okay. And according to him. And so we have agreed on where all of the dollars are going and we are not going to do anything else with money that we have not agreed to. He gets a vote.

[George Kamel]

Right, Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But once he's Committed to this, then we are going to execute this plan that we both agreed to. And so you don't come home and go, surprise. You know, I lost $500 at Texas Hold' Em last night.

[George Kamel]

Right? Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't get that option because you've made a commitment at the beginning of the month, and we're very intertwined, and we have committed to each other, and you had a vote. If you wanna put a budget for gambling in your budget, that's up to you all. Okay. But at least it's on the table. We know what it's limited to, and it's part of our plan that we both agreed to. Instead, you're trying to run around with a broom behind him and clean up.

[George Kamel]

Yes. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's exhausting for him and you.

[George Kamel]

Yes. Yeah. Yep.

[Caller]

And one of the main problems right now is these separate accounts because the money flows in and then right back out to his personal account, and then he goes and gambles.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's got to go away.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Yeah. That's the part that I'm trying to figure out.

[Dave Ramsey]

You didn't want him to go together, though. You told me that.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I did. Because I'm nervous that he. He's gonna, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If he gave his word at the beginning of the month, and every dollar was laid out for both incomes and it's all in one account, and we've both had a. Had our say, and we've come to agreement, and this is where every dollar has a name. Okay. If he gave his word to that, would he break that?

[George Kamel]

I don't believe so. I don't either. Know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't either. I think he just kind of runs around, does whatever he wants right now. Because that's the system you all set up.

[George Kamel]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it frustrates you. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

But your system. Your system sucks.

[Caller]

Yeah. Has he started Gamblers Anonymous?

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think he needs to. I think he was just gambling.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. I don't.

[Caller]

You think he's discovered, quote, discovered he had a gambling problem?

[George Kamel]

He definitely didn't want to admit to it. I literally had to show him how I figured it all out.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no. That. That. Do you think he had. Do you think he's an addict, or you think he was just hiding it because he didn't want you to know about it?

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I think he was just hiding it. He didn't want me to know about it.

[Caller]

I don't think he's an.

[Dave Ramsey]

If he's an addict, this is a whole different situation.

[George Kamel]

Mm.

[Caller]

How much money is he spending, would you say, per month?

[George Kamel]

Well, the last month I got, I gathered like $14,000.

[Caller]

How much money do you guys make.

[George Kamel]

In a month combined? 10.

[Dave Ramsey]

He gambled $14,000 in one month?

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Caller]

Is he going into debt for this?

[George Kamel]

Yes. When he can't pay bills, I have to pick up the slack, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that, yeah, that's. That's an amount that raises alarm bells.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

This is not 500 bucks on a sports betting app. This has gone way past that.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like, it adds up. Like that's for. For a whole month.

[Caller]

But you know where exactly he's gambling.

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Caller]

And where is it?

[George Kamel]

It's. It's scratch off.

[Caller]

He spent 14 grand on scratch offs in a month?

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Boy child's got a problem.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Yeah, we need to, we need to start talking about getting him in some counseling. Okay.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That, that, that's, that's not cool when you make 10 grand. Okay.

[George Kamel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's, that's like over the top. So he's got, he's got issues here. It's. It's a different system now than what I gave you earlier. I apologize.

[Caller]

At this point, it's. It's cutting him off from access to the checking account.

[Dave Ramsey]

This guy is not. Cannot be counted on. I think you're dealing with an addict, honey.

[George Kamel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I think you're going to treat this like he was doing cocaine.

[George Kamel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

We're going into counseling and we're going into Gamblers Anonymous and we're going to sit down with our pastor and, and we're gonna see a marriage counselor and we're gonna do all four of those things immediately and start working on how you get to the point that anybody. It's an illogical thing which points to addiction, okay? To spend 14,000 when you make 10 on freaking scratch offs, which is like the lowest probability of anything you can do. I mean, the lottery is basically a tax on poor people and people that can't do math. Almost all the lottery tickets are bought in lower income zip codes and people that are struggling with math, whether they're in lower income zip codes or not. But your husband's struggling with math. I mean, this is. He ain't even. He's not even gonna win. That's. This is horrible. So scratch off, but it's sunk cost.

[Caller]

Fallacy where he goes, well, now I gotta grind my way out of this by getting the right scratch off. And so you're gonna have to manage the money on your own. Right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I Didn't catch that.

[Caller]

And then you're gonna have to. Baby.

[Dave Ramsey]

Caught that. George. Good work.

[Caller]

I just had a weird sneaking suspicion.

[Dave Ramsey]

You caught that one. I was about to drive by it. Wow.

[Caller]

I'll put that on my resume.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's good. That's how we start the day right there.

[Caller]

Oh, so sorry you're dealing with this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you're gonna have to treat this like it's very serious, honey, because it is. Yeah. And you can't count on him to manage money because he can't do math. He's struggling with math because of his addiction. That's what this points. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options. And they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch. Give them a call at 800-356-4282. So the big beautiful bill, I thought that was a nickname. They actually named the law back, which is trippy to say the least.

[Caller]

Beautiful. Just such a strange adjective for a piece of paper.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think it's pretty cool. I mean, it's kind of fun, but. So everybody's wanting to know, okay, is the world gonna come to an end because of it, or is the world honestly gonna get better? Well, as usual with Washington, there's some things that are good and there's some things that are not good, and you can just kind of go with that. You know, I don't think there's any.

[Caller]

Bill that universally will help anyone and everyone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, because that's not the government's job, by the way. It's your job to help you quit waiting on the White House to fix your house, in other words. So. But anyway, everybody's wanting to know all this, so we kind of. We thought we'd spend a segment on it anyway. I'm not gonna spend the rest of my life on it, but I probably will because a lot of stuff's gonna come up over the rest of my life. But anyway, first thing is the 2017 tax cuts were made permanent. They were scheduled to run out. And that's huge because the main thing that happened is 90 some odd percent of Americans take the standard deduction. Do not itemize. And the 2017 raised the standard deduction super high. And so it keeps you from having to pay federal income tax for a whole bunch of you at all. Just because you get this huge standard deduction.

[Caller]

That's some real savings for most people.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they increased it another fifteen hundred dollars in 2025, not for 24, but for 25, which when you file next year, you'll see that. And it's gonna continue to increase adjusted for inflation. So that's a nice thing there. So it makes the income tax filings be fairly easy for most people. And you know, but you're not writing off interest, you're not writing off charitable deductions, with exception of what I'm coming to come to in a few minutes, that kind of stuff. So, uh, no tax. He kept his. A politician kept a campaign promise. Note this. It's fairly unusual, doesn't happen much. So no taxes on tips and overtime. He dreamed that up and everybody went bonkers and they actually did it. Now it's got limitations to it. The bill adds a tax deduction of up to $25,000 for income from tips. So you don't pay taxes on that.

[Caller]

And that's not dollar for dollar. But it will reduce your taxable income by that much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Caller]

Which is helpful. That's still a few thousand bucks for most people that work on tips.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And it's only for three years, 25 through 28, and then it expires. The deduction phases out if you make over 150,000 a year or 300,000 for couples. Same thing for overtime. It phases out on that and is only for three years. And the bill adds a tax deduction of up to 12,000 525,000 for couples for qualified overtime wages. So that's good. That's good. That's a move trump accounts babies born from the start of 25 to the end of 28 would receive $1,000 Trump account deposit. Where is that going?

[Caller]

It goes into. It's managed by the treasury. And there are no tax advantages like there would be with a 529 plan or a Roth IRA. So the best part is the free thousand bucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just 1,000 bucks.

[Caller]

You get 1,000 bucks and that, you know, it'll have compound growth. I'm not sure how they're investing it. I'm not sure how much control you'll have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like none.

[Caller]

But it does have restrictions and, you know, you have to withdraw it at a certain time and all that kind of stuff. But it can be for that college, home buying, starting a business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thousand dollars, one time. It's useless.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I was excited at first and they're. And they're handling it. I thought this could replace political bs.

[Caller]

But it's not enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

Student loan overhaul. I'm not going to get into that. Don't take student loans. Okay. Auto updates. Those who buy American made new vehicles can deduct up to $10,000 a year in interest on the auto loans. And that deduction phases out if you make more than 100k or 200 from couples. The bill ends a $7,500 tax credits for the EVs. We knew that was coming. We knew Elon was pissed. Everybody's seen that.

[Caller]

That one seemed vengeful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there's like, just dropping. But I'll tell you, what ended up happening was like, north of town here, there's several million square feet. General Motors was building a battery plant. Oh, wow. For EVs. And they shut the construction down the.

[Caller]

Middle of it because it's really going to hurt the demand when you reduce the.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know. Took their foot off the battery.

[Caller]

Took the wind out of the sails there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Took their foot off the battery.

[Caller]

Oh, there we go. No gas here, Dave. Oh, man. All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Billions tax credits for rooftop solar, geothermal heat pumps and other energy efficient home devices at the end of 2025. If you're going to do any of that and want the federal tax credit for that, you do it by the end of year. Installed and paid. Can't just be contracted for. Has to actually be done by the end of the year. Medicaid reduction. The bill creates a tax deduction of $6,000 for seniors for three years, 25 to 28. The deduction decreases if you make more than 75 or 150,000 for couples. Currently, no proof of work is required to receive Medicaid. The bill requires by the end of 26. Most, most adults who do not have children younger than 14 to document 80 hours of work to get Medicaid. That's per month volunteering or training, don't worry. Or something. Yeah that's.

[Caller]

So that's about a part time job right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

20 hours a week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well I mean you actually have to be doing something. Yeah. To get this.

[Caller]

Welfare for able bodied adults.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. SALT deduction S a L T. That is. This bill raises the current cap on the state and local taxes that people in high tax states have to write off on their federal returns from to 40,000 from 10,000 that you can write off if you live in one of those income tax states. Charity deduction bill lets you write off up to $1,000 whoopee of your donations. 2,000 for couples starting in 26. Even if you take the standard deduction. That's new but it's a whole thousand dollars whoopee. No big deal. Tax credit for children 2,000. It raises it to 2,200 and adjusts for inflation after that. So that continues as part of the 2017 bill. HSA More people are eligible and money can be used for more expenses like gym memberships.

[Caller]

That's a cool one. That's a big fan of the health savings accounts.

[Dave Ramsey]

529 can be used for more expenses like tutoring or dual enrollment fees. Workforce training after high school.

[Caller]

For the trades.

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can micro love this. The trades will be kicking up. That's good. And so basically a bunch of little tiny stuff. There's no big beautiful thing in here. Yeah, it's a bunch of nickel and dime stuff. I mean the tips I think the big ones. No taxes on tips and overtime. But if you're, you know, if you're not going to take out a car loan.

[George Kamel]

That one.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not going to take out a student loan.

[Caller]

Why not give the benefit to anyone who buys an American made car whether they use debt or not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Something. Yeah.

[Caller]

Why only let the people who took out debt benefit from this. That's an odd one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Help. Thank you to the banking.

[Caller]

That's America.

[Dave Ramsey]

Banking lobbyists got involved there. We'll make sure we're in debt spending liker in Congress. It raises the debt ceiling by 5 trillion which estimates are that'll probably last about the time that Trump is in office and then they'll have a bump into the ceiling again at debt ceiling.

[Caller]

They just keep raising it. How high can this roof go? That's the question.

[Dave Ramsey]

Maybe if you were going to buy solar or maybe if you were going to buy an EV or maybe and the EVs go away. I think that was September 30th. You can still do the EV thing up to September 30th. But really there's not anything in here that's going to change your life.

[Caller]

I don't see any. Someone on a golden horse riding in to save your day here. There's some tax cuts. So if, you know, for the people that were doing well, the best thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

That they did, their biggest thing, and it's kind of quiet on this, the way this is written up is that they just made permanent the 2017 stuff, which is really big stuff in 2017. The thing they did do for those of you that run a small business is they brought the R and D right off back. Thank God. If your business is under 31 million annually, you can start immediately taking your R and D tax credits back. That had been in place for like 75 years and went away two years ago. Weird. Because they didn't renew it because Congress sat on their thumbs, which they usually do. And so small businesses were getting slammed because they lost a huge depreciation issue on R and D. I know I did. If your business is more than 31 million, it's still coming back. If you're, you know, like ours is about 300 million, so we don't qualify. And so it's still coming back, but we're gonna have to wait till like 26 or 25 for it to show up. And it's a different issue. But yeah, but still, at least they got it all back in and they put the, they put the tax law back together. That's what they did with that. So big. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah.

[Caller]

Bill, sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a bill, I'll give them that. It's a bill. These days, business as usual is anything but. Tariffs make trade policy a moving target. Supply chains are squeezed and cash flow is probably tighter than ever. So if your business can't adapt in real time, you're in a world of hurt. That's why you need NetSuite by Oracle, trusted by more than 42,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions. You need to see what's happening, what's stuck and what's costing you and how to fix it. And NetSuite is the number one cloud based business management suite because it helps your business make the right decisions fast. It brings accounting, financial management, inventory and HR into one place so you're not left shuffling a dozen different spreadsheets. That gives you the visibility you need to make quick decisions. Based on actionable data. And NetSuite AI automates everyday tasks so your team can focus on strategy. It's one system for full control and no guesswork to tame the chaos. And right now, if you're leading a business doing more than a million dollars in annual revenue, download NetSuite's free ebook Navigating Global Trade. 3 insights for [e-mail] Ramsey that's NetSuite.com Ramsey Financial Peace University Coordinators People that coordinate and run these classes all over America are everyday heroes who share the hope and freedom that comes with Financial Peace University. And that deserves to be celebrated. If you're a coordinator, listen up. Join us at the virtual 2025 coordinator rally on July 24th to celebrate the impact that you've made. Whether you've coordinated a class before or you just want to see what leading FPU is all about, you're invited. You're going to hear from Jade Warshaw, George Camel, Dr. John DeLoney and other special guests. And we're giving away $3,000. So register for your chance to win. Register for [e-mail] rally and click the link in the description if you want to do go that way. And if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, that is. So check that out. Kate is in Chicago. Hi, Kate, how are you?

[George Kamel]

Hi, Dave. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Kamel]

All right, so every year we get an escrow notice that our account has a shortage. So they're raising our mortgage payment again. In 2019 is when we bought the house, and our payment then was 1,640, and our payment now, six years later is 1,840. So with those raises over the years and now we just got this year's notice saying our account is $1,200 short. And so we have two options. We can send in the check to cover the shortage, or they will add it to monthly payment. The monthly payment is going up $100 regardless of whether or not we send in this check. But then if we don't send in the check, it's going to go up $200. So now our mortgage payment would be around $2,000. So one, my question is, is it normal that it goes up every year so much?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, your escrow pays your property taxes and your homeowner's insurance. The only reason your escrow would go up is if those two are going up.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they probably are.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, especially since 2019, you live in the Chicago area, and so your Taxes are horrendous.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they probably have gone up on your property taxes every stinking year. And it would not be unusual for your homeowners insurance to go up every year. For one thing, you need to have your homeowners looked at and make sure that as the value of your home increases, you increase your coverage, which will cause your price to go up as well, your premium to go up. Okay, so escrow is pretty simple. Whatever your property taxes are for that year, the year upcoming, okay. Plus whatever your homeowner's insurance is, the total of those two numbers divided by 12 should be added to your standard principal and interest payment. And that's what escrow is. They're holding one or they're collecting 1/12 of your homeowners 1/12 of your taxes. And what you're telling me is that you underpaid. You did not pay enough last year to cover those two things by 1200 bucks.

[George Kamel]

And that's. By their estimation, a year ago, how much we would have had to pay a year ago?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

If that makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I mean, no, by now, if you've got a shortage of 1200 bucks, it's because of what actually happened, not an estimation. Now, they underestimated last year. Is there? And that's what caused it. But, you know, basically what you're doing is you're trying to stay. You're trying to have 1/12 of what your actual taxes and your actual. Your actual property taxes and your actual homeowners insurance are. That's what it is. And when you come up short, it's because those things have gone up or because they didn't collect enough to pay those things. That's what it amounts to. So I'd pay the 1200 bucks if it was me, keep my payment, and then check on the account and figure out what they're. Are they collecting enough based on what your actual homeowners and your actual property taxes are?

[George Kamel]

Mm. Okay. Do people ever try to manage those things on their own and just pay property tax?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, if your mortgage company allows it. Not all of them do.

[Caller]

And once you pay off your home, then it's on you to handle that because there's no more mortgage company involved.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So, like, I handle my own escrow, and I just make sure to keep track of how much I'm saving for property tax.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you don't have an escrow. You just have to pay the bill.

[Caller]

I am the escrow. My bank account is the escrow.

[Dave Ramsey]

George Escrow. That's his name.

[Caller]

Fancy. So okay, There's a few things you can do. You can track your, your property tax assessments annually, see if your property tax is going up, call your insurance company ahead of the renewal to anticipate any increases, and then you can even request an escrow review mid year to say, hey, where are we at? Based on what I'm actually paying, based on what's in the fund, are we on track? That'll just help you avoid the like jump scare at the end of the year when you have this bill.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, right. Because in the background we're trying to do baby step number two, paying off debt. And so as we're like going through this summer, like, yes, we're going to put this payment right toward debt and then we get this letter and it's like, oh man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, if you're in baby step two and you don't have the 1200, it's okay to add it. Just. Okay. Just have 200 more on your monthly bill. That's fine. But it sounds like, it sounds like, it sounds like your expenses, sounds like your expenses went up 1200 anyway. Yeah, so you're, that's where the 200 comes.

[George Kamel]

I need to look more into that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. I want to find out what's really going on with the escrow and make sure that there's not an overage either.

[Caller]

You can always reshop your homeowners insurance. I do that with Zander once a year and for example, they're saving me money this year because they found that the rates were getting higher and another company had a more competitive offer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you can jump in and look for one of the ELPs on property and Casualty in the Ramsey trusted site and you know, one of the, one of the people in your area there can help you do that and help you search that out and you might save some money on your, on your homeowners. That might help the situation actually considerably. So. But that's how it works. It's 1/12 of those two collected monthly and if they don't collect enough to pay it, you have a shortage. If they over collect, you have an overage. It's that, it's simple math in that regard. J.D. is in Dayton, Ohio. Hi J.D. how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing great, Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I have a full time job. I also DJ weddings and private parties through a company and I do about 100 events a year and an average about 300 per event all over my tri state area. So I need a side hustle. That I can do everywhere so I can work in between my gigs. I tried doordash, but it seems like it's a lot of wear and tear and maintenance on my car. So that led me to looking for an online side hustle. Most of these I've found have turned out to be scams. So how can I find a legitimate online side hustle that I can do from anywhere that actually pays me?

Well, here's the thing. When you think about how many people want what you're looking for, it's everybody. Everybody wants to sit on their couch and make money. And so that's the problem you're also faced, that's what you're up against, is that anyone can do this. And so you need to find out what your specific skills are that can make you more than some guy taking a survey for 5 cents. And so that might be knowledge based work like freelance writing and editing, online tutoring, voiceover work. I don't know what you're. If you're a dj, I assume you've got some skills that transfer to that world. And then there's also more tech driven side hustles. There's flipping things online, getting into, you know, blogging or YouTube and kind of the digital space, online courses. But for most people, you're going to find that there are pennies to be made with most of these side hustles that involve, you know, taking some surveys online. And so the truth is there's not a ton of amazing opportunities to sit at home unless you find a legitimate job working, you know, flexible part time, doing customer service calls or something like that for a legit company.

Yeah, the voiceover thing, I really would love to get into that. I've been told that I have a pretty good voice, so I think that would be awesome. How would I go about getting into that? Because I've looked at, I've seen ads for it, like on Facebook and things like that, but I have no idea if these things are legitimate or not.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not.

[Caller]

If it's a Facebook ad, there's a good chance you're about to get scammed. So you can like a site like Fiverr, you can make your own profile and you can kind of pitch what you're offering and the price and you can find clients through that. That might become long term. I would get around people who are actually doing it and get in those communities and circles. That's going to be your best bet if you really want to do it. But man, it's going to take getting off your butt. I don't know that there's much you can do from home to make $4,000 a month magically.

[Dave Ramsey]

Probably on the voiceover stuff, I would just start hitting ad agencies that are cut at getting ads cut for podcasts and radio. And you might contact some of your local radio stations as well and say, do you have any opportunities for some of the ads coming on that you need a different voice other than your own air talent and they probably do sounders and other things.

[George Kamel]

Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in bills since 1981. CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y', all, there's a better way to take care of healthcare costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and [e-mail] budget. That's chministries.org budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Elizabeth is in Nashville. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you?

[George Kamel]

I'm going to steal your line and say that I'm very blessed. Hi, Dave and George.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi. How can we help?

[George Kamel]

So, following the total money makeover, my husband and I are doing very well with money. We are net worth millionaires. And we're actually making our last payment on the mortgage tonight.

[Caller]

Yay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go.

[George Kamel]

Thank you. But here's the issue I'm having. Even though we're doing well, we have lived so frugally for so long that I'm struggling to feel like I can spend any money. So if we are managers of God's money, how can I feel more free to enjoy spending the money we've worked so long and so hard for? How can I flip that switch in my brain?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's probably not going to be a switch. It's probably going to be a muscle that is rebuilt, that is atrophied. Your spending muscle has not worked in a long time. And so you got to Build that muscle back up again by doing some spending. And how do you do that and not freak out? Well, the way I do that is ratios. I'm always saying, okay, if we do this, does it really matter? Is it really going to hurt us? Okay, and so what is your household income?

[George Kamel]

It is 138,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so if you spend $10,000 and you just completely waste that money, it doesn't affect your life at all. No, you can afford that. Okay, So I don't know. And I kind of got to get that in my head. Now. I'm not going to set out to waste money. That's not what I'm saying. But if you're doing something that you're not used to, doing it emotionally feels the same as wasting money. Like for instance, let's just say you booked a cruise for $10,000 and you haven't spent that kind of money on travel in the last 15 years because you've been frugal, okay? That's going to feel. That's kind of like shock the system, right? Emotionally. And so you've got to practice doing that. Spending an amount of money, an increasing amount of money that doesn't affect you. Now I'm not suggesting if you make 130 grand that you go out and blow 100 grand. I'm not saying that. But I'm going to figure out an amount of money that's a ratio. And you know, Sharon and I look at each other and go, it doesn't matter if we do this. And it's all. It was a horrible decision. It's still okay, you know, and so we can. That gives us the freedom to travel or to buy an item or an experience or spend that amount of money, whatever thing on a ridiculously nice dinner out or something like that that we used to couldn't do. But now we've lived like no one else, so now we can live like no one else. And so now we're able to do those kinds of things. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't affect our generosity. It doesn't affect. Our net worth is not damaged. Our finances aren't irresponsible and out of control. But it's gonna affect. Feel that way in our, in your emotions because you've just not done it for a long time. Does that make any sense?

[George Kamel]

It really does. It does feel like I would have to flex a really big muscle. I'm used to not even ordering drinks when we go out to restaurants. And so the thought of buying a $3 drink feels like, oh, that's a big purchase for me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So. So you need to kick that one up a little. You know, you need to start practicing some stuff like that. Okay. It's ridiculous if you're a net worth millionaire and your home is paid off that you can't enjoy a drink when you go out to eat. That's. That's silly.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mathematically, that's silly. Okay.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you need to start practicing having that level of enjoyment, and then you need to accelerate it and buy an expensive bottle of wine.

[Caller]

So it's okay to not spend because you don't want to. If you just want water, that's fine, but don't make it about, well, we can't afford this. That's what you're gonna have to retrain your brain. And I'm frugal, but I've learned how to enjoy and spend. And a good spouse will help you do that because usually there's some opposites there. And so one thing I've done that is very tactical is I add line items in my every dollar budget to force myself to spend on things that I think are frivolous. And then my wife keeps us accountable and goes, nope, you said you're gonna spend 100 bucks on fun money. Where did it go? Did you do anything you enjoy?

[Dave Ramsey]

Show me the fun.

[Caller]

Exactly. So both of you have a dream date. Nice dinner, get an appetizer, maybe even a dessert. Get a drink and start dreaming about the list of things that we want to do and then add it to the budget.

Wow.

Because you're really good at saving.

[George Kamel]

A totally different perspective.

[Caller]

How did you pay off the mortgage? You budgeted for that extra to go to principal, didn't you?

[George Kamel]

Yep.

[Caller]

And now you have to budget for the fun side so that you can avoid having this flat tire like Dave was talking about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And again, it just. We move to intentional. And so this is adults spending, not children spending in adult bodies. Okay. This is. And by intentional, I mean we look at it and we go, okay, it does not damage our ability to retire wealthy if we order drinks with dinner. Okay. And it does not damage our. And so you can just kind of get used to that. And I gotta tell you, Sharon and I have been. We've been increasing that in the last three years because it took us a long time to get those muscles built back because we lived like on beans and rice forever to get to the point where we didn't have to anymore. And then you've got to just Rebuild that mentality. But the difference is when we were spending before financial peace, we were doing it in a childlike manner, an immature manner, with no thought as to the circumstances or no thought as to the whole picture. And now when we're doing it, it fits into the picture. So it's an adult viewpoint because you.

[Caller]

Can impulsively spend 10 grand and you can intentionally spend 10 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Caller]

And the latter is not going to hurt your wealth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, and one of them is, you know, your level of enjoyment changes. You know, when you're. When you're doing it impulsively and with immaturity, you get a rush.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

As you're doing it. When you're doing it intentionally, you savor it all the way through.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you enjoy the trip at.

[Caller]

A different level with no stress on the other end of. Oh, gosh, why did I do that? You did it again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Trip didn't follow me home.

[Caller]

You always do this. Why'd you go into debt? You shouldn't have swiped that card. And so the way Elizabeth is doing it, using debit, using cash, you got a paid for home. Now's your time to live and give like no one else. And I also think she's. They're paying off the mortgage tonight. So they've still been in that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Oh, by the way, you need to do something tonight.

[Caller]

Celebrate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Celebrate tonight. You mean push the submit button from a white tablecloth in a fine dining establishment, kiddo. I mean, go. You need to. You need to celebrate this. You don't sit at home and drink water while you pay off your house. Okay, that's not. No, no, no. We need to have some fun with this.

[Caller]

I wish I knew where they were going. I'd call the staff and say, bring them a cake on us to celebrate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bring them a bottle of wine on you.

[Caller]

There we go. Add it to Dave's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Add it to George's generosity list. Yeah.

[Caller]

I thought a cake would be more or less expensive, but I know you did. I need to live like no one else.

[Dave Ramsey]

I upped your game for, you know.

[Caller]

Sharon Ramsey and I, we had her on Smart Money happy hour, and it was hilarious. And we talked about frugality a lot. And Sharon, at her core, is a frugal person.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, God.

[Caller]

But in other areas, she's happy to spend. And so how. How have you guys managed that over time? Because you're still the free spirit spender in the family.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm not.

[Caller]

You're like a nerd spender.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm a nerd spender. Yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

It's the beautiful combo.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Because you like your toys, you have your hobbies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Sharon will blow, you know, $6,000 on a purse. But. But make me eat. You know, mayonnaise is five years past the expiration date, so that's the best. That's the. That's the part that hasn't. The freezer.

[Caller]

It's still good, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right. The. The leftovers are a constant argument. Still just can't get rid of that one. So I, I make enough money, I don't need to eat leftovers. I'm sorry. I'm just kidding.

[Caller]

That's a stance Dave takes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just a. It's a thing.

[Caller]

But, you know, she's cooking for two and I'm just. There's going to be leftovers.

[Dave Ramsey]

George, you're not supposed to take her side.

[Caller]

I'm coming over to eat the leftover.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sharon, you are. You don't have to. If you start this crap, I'm going to make you do it. That's how this is going to work.

[Caller]

It's a good discussion.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a wonderful discussion and it happens a lot. Thank you. Every. Every. Our point is, is that everyone faces this. And the good news is you did learn how to be intentional. And now all you've got to change is your intentionality towards your generosity and your enjoyment. Not just, you know, building wealth. Yeah.

[Caller]

It's hard to move, though, from that scarcity to abundance mindset. Even when you have the abundance. It does take a lot of training. And that budget is what helped me personally to make it really tactical and force myself to build that muscle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Put that in your every dollar line item. Yep. In your every dollar item.

[Caller]

That's the hack.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the one. Good. Good call, George.

[Caller]

You know what makes a summer party great? Good friends, cold drinks and great food. But you know what can bring the party down? Spending way too much money to make it all happen. And that's why I get my summertime grocery hauls at Aldi. They've got USDA choice meats, fresh organic produce, and all the stuff you need for an epic or low key backyard barbecue without breaking the bank. There's no better feeling than good eats at low prices. So stop paying more and shop at Aldi where they have the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you@ Aldi US that's Aldi US savings. Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. The Phone number is 888-8255. 225. Danny's in Chicago. Hey Danny, what's up?

[Caller]

How's it going? Dave? Yeah, I was just calling because been working baby steps for a couple years and I'm back to square zero. And. And I just feel like giving up and life has gotten really hard in the last year and I just wanted to see what advice you can give me.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you mean back to square zero? Back to.

[Caller]

Well, I was on baby step two, paying off my debt, smallest to largest. But I ended up losing my job on July 1st. I was down to one job and I spent through my emergency funds covering my cost of living, protecting my four walls. And that's gone. And I'm just waiting on my first paycheck from my only other job, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm. Why'd you lose your job?

[Caller]

So I was a pastor and unfortunately the churches didn't have me in their budget anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they didn't. You didn't see that coming? You didn't know that was going to happen. It caught you off guard?

[Caller]

I had no insight into the finances of the church. That wasn't part of my job.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean there was, there was no, there was no warning at all.

[Caller]

I was given about a 45 day notice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. So all right. And so what is the job that you still have?

[Caller]

So every summer I pick up a job lifeguarding. And right now I'm working anywhere between 80 to 85 hours a week, open to close as many hours as I can get. I'm seasonal, so I don't make overtime payments, but it's just enough for me to live off of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What are you making? What are they paying you?

[Caller]

I take home pay is after taxes is about every other week or so. Just over two grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. She make a four grand a month roughly.

[Caller]

But that job is going to end here at the end of the summer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I got that. The but. So why would you. If you're making four grand a month, you can't live on that.

[Caller]

No, I am preparing for the end of the summer when I don't have a job.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no. You said you went through your emergency fund to keep the four walls open. Why would you do that? If you're making four grand a month, why would you need to do that?

[Caller]

Because when I was pastoring. I was only working for them about 10 to 20 hours a week. I wasn't able to up my hours until after I was let go from the church.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so why did you not schedule the 80 hour work weeks beginning the day that the church. Because they gave you 45 days notice. So why did you not sync these things? You left a month in between or something or.

[Caller]

No, sir. I let my boss know and she upped my hours as soon as she could. Maybe they're scheduling about a month in advance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. All right. Okay.

[Caller]

How much debt do you have?

I started with $200,000 and I'm down to just about 120.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good job. All right. And what were you making as a pastor?

[Caller]

I was making about 35 to $40,000, depending on how I was working. Sometimes I would pick up extra hours for them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So what's your plan in the fall? What are you going to do for income?

[Caller]

So my game plan is to go back to McDonald's. That's what I did in my undergrad. And I'm trying to apply to 10 hour, I'm sorry, 10 jobs a week. But I'm in the early stages of applying and so I'm not sure where I'm going to succeed there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I'm sorry, you're going to work at McDonald's?

[Caller]

It's some form of income for me. Yes, sir. It's what I did in my. In my undergrad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Why would that be your plan, though? Why would you not have. Why would you now have a career plan?

[Caller]

What was your undergrad for?

Mass communication and applied communication.

So why aren't using that to have a career instead of just a job?

I am working towards that, but I got to finish up my master's degree before I can do that.

I have a communication degree. I work here.

Oh, yes, sir.

You can work in media, pr, marketing.

Yes, sir. My career goal was to be a pastor, and you told us your plan.

Is to work at McDonald's. So we need to have some bigger goals since we did this undergrad.

Yes, sir. What advice would you give me on how to utilize.

Apply for jobs that are in the communication field that will pay you double.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or trip pay 60 or $80,000 a year. Why would you go back to being a teenager?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you need to think about a big career aspiration. Start working towards that. I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's book, finding the work you're wired to do and take the. Take the assessment and I'm also going to send you his book, the Proximity Principle, on how to properly apply for jobs. Just filling out applications will not get you hired in today's digital world. Okay? It's a waste of time to just fill out applications. Okay? So instead you have to create connections and move in a direction you want to go. But don't, don't. You've got a little bit of time until the end of the summer. Let's use that time wisely to not be so desperate and already have out of desperation, already have dumbed down your life to McDonald's. It just. It sounds like you're scared and you're just running back to the last thing you knew that was comfortable. And so what we're trying to do is give you some. You know, I think you're a whole lot better than you feel like you are right now. And so. And this pastoral, the loss of the pastor's job has hurt you emotionally because it's what you always wanted to do and now you can't do it. So at least at that place, maybe there's some jobs in the pastor that are out there. Maybe there's some youth pastor jobs or something like that that are out there that you can get into. And so I don't know what it is you're looking for, But I think McDonald's is a desperation move. That's. I'm not putting it down because it's McDonald's. I'm putting it down because it's a desperation move. And I just think you can do a whole lot more towards your future. And that's what I want you to aim at. And that when you get the income situation and the career thing stable and moving again, instantly you're going to get back in the saddle. You're going to start reducing your debt again. But right now, your goal is to get enough income coming in and to get. And to get in the proximity of people doing the type of things you need to be doing in communications and pastoring or whatever it is.

[Caller]

So a fast food is not your solution. A master's degree, not your solution. You're just going to be overqualified at that point and definitely not get the job. And so you need to focus on what you can do now with the degree that you have, with the skills that you have. And I think you just need to get your mojo back.

[Dave Ramsey]

After you got knocked down, you landed a job as an associate pastor of some kind. So do it again. You did it once. Do it again. Just this time, do it with a church that actually has a little money to pay the bills. And, you know, that's what I'm looking for here. Hey, man, keep at it. I think you're better than you feel like you are right now. That's what we're trying to tell you.

[Caller]

Let's be real. Buying your first home can feel like reading Ikea instructions upside down. It's confusing and stressful, and you have no idea if that cam bolt is supposed to go there. And if you try and buy a home with some click and go lender, well, good luck, because you're just another line on their spreadsheet. So here's the thing. When I was buying my home, I didn't want to just be a loan number. I wanted a relationship with a real person, someone who was willing to answer all of my questions along the way and understood my goal of paying off my mortgage fast. And that's why I love Churchill Mortgage. They don't rush you. They don't try to sell you more house than you need. They listen. They walk with you step by step and offer guidance so that you understand what you can actually afford. So they teach you how to do it the right way so that you have margin and peace with the goal of becoming completely debt free. So if you want rock solid advice on how to buy a home the right way, connect with a Churchill loan specialist today@churchill mortgage.com. that's churchillmortgage.com this is a paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 and MLS consumeraccess.org.

[Dave Ramsey]

Equal housing lender Patrick's with us in Chattanooga. Hey, Patrick, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. I'm great. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for taking my call. I'm 28, my wife's 27, and we bought a duplex last year for 325,000. We live in one side and rent the other. We've paid the mortgage down to 166,000 and we're throwing really large sums at it each month. And we have a six and a half percent interest rate. We've got about 190,000 invested, and 110,000 of that is in a taxable brokerage account. My wife is super debt averse. She's been that way since taking financial peace in high school. And even with the progress we've made, the mortgage just stresses her out. She wants to cash out the brokerage. It'd be about 106,000 after taxes to pay most of the house down so we can finish Paying the rest in roughly six months. And then after that, we plan to put the large sums currently going towards the house back into investing on a regular basis.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Caller]

Another thing I should mention is we're considering starting a family. And when that time comes, we're both on board with my wife staying at home, and we've cut our income in half. Paying off the mortgage quickly feels like a smart security, but I'm worried about selling the investments early. We're long term buy and hold index fund investors and have never touched those accounts before. We both realized how powerful compound interest is over time, and I really wouldn't like to lose the momentum if we don't have to. So I would leave the brokerage alone and keep paying large sums on the mortgage and be debt free in around 18 to 20 months. And all the money into.

[Dave Ramsey]

You definitely married.

[Caller]

Well.

[George Kamel]

Thank you.

[Caller]

I would have to agree with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

In other words, she's right.

[Caller]

You lost the argument, Patrick.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here's why. Okay, here's why. If we reverse engineer this, you would not do it. So let's pretend that you owed $100,000 less on the duplex and you were in a process of paying it off, that you'd already done all this. Okay. And you're in the process of paying it off within six months. And the opportunity came up to borrow $106,000 on the duplex at 6% so that you could put it into an index fund. You wouldn't do that. She for sure wouldn't do that. But you wouldn't even do that.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's the same thing that we're talking about. We just did it in reverse. Sure. You see what? I lost you, didn't I?

[Caller]

No, no, I'm with you. I totally am tracking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So in other words, if you owed $100,000 less on the duplex today and you did not have this brokerage account, you would not go borrow 100,000 at 6% against the duplex to put it in a brokerage account for the same exact reasons you would cash out this brokerage account. And you're not going to lose any ground. You're going to be fine. You're still going to be multimillionaires. And here's why. I know that, number one, you have a propensity to save. Number two, you're very both of very, very intentional about these things. Number three, you're aligned and you're not doing things against the both of you are talking about this and you're coming into alignment before you do things. These are all the key things we have in all of our data points of people who become wealthy spouses that work together and that are aligned and that talk through these things together. Which you guys are people who live on less than they make and have a forward thinking mentality about saving and invest, which you are, and people that hate debt, which both of you are. She just hates it a little more than you do.

[Caller]

And yeah, we, we definitely, we definitely talk a lot about these things. And that's, that's really why I'm calling you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys, you guys are amazing. You're, you're a power couple, man.

[Caller]

Thank you. I appreciate that. We've asked friends and family, but some of the friends and family we've asked don't have a paid off house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they're in behind you. And so don't ask broke people about finances. I mean, that's just so. No, I mean, you guys, you're a power couple. You have all the data points of somebody that's going to be worth $10 million in probably in about 15 years from now.

[Caller]

And I can help crunch the numbers here to give them some hope. But you know, they, if, let's say they're throwing nine grand, it sounds like with the principal and interest plus the extra based on all the numbers he was telling me. So let's say you cash out the brokerage and you start back at zero a year from now. Right. You pay off the mortgage, we freed it up. Now we're investing all of that from age 29, because you're 28 right now, to age 65, 10% return, nine grand a month, you'll have $37 million. 65. I think we're going to be okay. Yeah, you got plenty of time.

[Dave Ramsey]

So my 10 million wasn't far off 15 years from now. Yeah, yeah. From. So that'd be 45.

[Caller]

Yeah, exactly. And it's because of the reasons you mentioned, they have a great income, they know what to do with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're being very intentional. Those are the things that we try to teach people to do that we can't get them to do, to work together, to be aligned, to have discuss about big things like this. And he's. Did you notice his tone and his sentence structure all indicated he was actually just trying to figure this out. It wasn't defensive, it wasn't arrogant, it wasn't talking down about his wife. He said, you know, this is her viewpoint. She got this cause of financial peace in high school for you high school teachers that are Teaching financial peace. Thank you. There you go. This is what you create. $37 million. This is what happens when you guys teach this class to these teenagers. Thank you. And thank you to you administrators that are buying it and putting it into your high school. That's what happened. But he's treating his wife's opinion and concerns with respect. Not with disrespect.

[Caller]

It wasn't. Well, I'm right and I just need Dave to justify my decision.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he was honestly looking for the answer. And that's somebody who's searching for alignment with her spouse. And that's what I mean. If you guys can get that stuff going instead of this, I'm dragging some princess or prince along with me that doesn't want to work and doesn't want to deny themselves and I want my bass boat and all this other bull crap, you know, instead of. These guys are. They're living in a duplex. Yeah. One side of it. I mean, these guys sacrifice. They have a lot going on.

[Caller]

Your tenant is next door.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, God. Yeah. But I mean there's just. Just impressive. Very, very, very impressive. Emily is in Denver. Emily, how are you?

[George Kamel]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Kamel]

So, just trying to figure out the right money moves. My husband just recently retired or will be retired as of August 1st from active duty military. 20 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Tell him thanks for service.

[George Kamel]

I will. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And thank you for moving around all over the world.

[George Kamel]

Thank you. It was fun though.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I bet.

[George Kamel]

We have essentially doubled and then some our income in the last month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

How so? With him being retired? He took a really good job. He'll have his pension and his VA disability. And then I got a promotion.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

What's the total income?

[George Kamel]

It will be about 316 before taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you. Jesus. I love it.

[Caller]

What's your question?

[George Kamel]

So we are actively paying down debt. In the last year we've paid off about 42,000. Mind you, that's on the old income. I work two jobs, he has one, plus his retirement disability. And then he's got a hobby that makes a couple hundred dollars a month. I lost my father about 15 years ago and when that happened, he was supporting me through college and life. I had been divorced and I was full time college student. And of course when that money went, it was very scary. So I have an anxiety with not having a savings account because of that.

[Caller]

How much do you have saved right now?

[George Kamel]

My question right now we have. Because we just pulled money to pay down a bunch of debts. We have 12,000 cash and then we have his tsp.

[Caller]

So, okay, how much debt is left?

[George Kamel]

If you include the cars and the Solar, it's about 125.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well you just had an increase of 150, so let's just do that in a year.

[George Kamel]

Right.

[Caller]

If you take home, let's say 18K and you live off of five or six and throw, you know, 10 or 12 of the dead, this thing's gone in less than a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Take all of your increase and be debt free in a year.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go. This is so cool. Happy for you.

[Caller]

That makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's going to be a tough year, but going to be a glorious ending to the next 12 months. Yay. So you don't get to enjoy the raises because you got to pay back the mess for a year and then you'll get to enjoy them for the.

[Caller]

Rest of your life.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Fairwinds is federally insured by the ncu.

[George Kamel]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is brought to you by why Refi? If you're struggling with defaulted private student loans, why Refi offers a great solution to get you back on track for a low fixed rate and more flexibility. Go to y refi.com Ramsey today. That's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states today's.

[Caller]

Question comes from Ava in Indiana. My husband plays in a local band and does all the bookings as well as receiving and dispersing payment to each band member. For the last four years, all the checks have been written to him directly as the band has not had a business entity. Now the IRS thinks my husband and I earn an extra $40,000 a year. We met with an accountant who gave us a plan for moving forward. But because of how poorly things have been handled in the past, the IRS is hounding US for almost 25,000 in back taxes. Is it fair to ask the band members to help with paying back those back taxes or are we on our own? Oh, boy. I don't know that they can legally demand it. They can ask politely and this could end the band. But I don't think they have any legal standing to require the band members to help them pay taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's on your husband for doing a piss poor job of running the thing. It was cute until it wasn't. Hmm. I'm just wondering why your accountant accepted the IRS's deal here. I mean, I think you could go back and file amended returns in those other years and you retroactively issued and distribute 1099s to the band members with him as the payee. Yeah. And then that does send it to the band members because they should have to pay their taxes on their part.

[Caller]

They essentially got paid without.

[Dave Ramsey]

They got tax free income. Yeah, yeah. Because they didn't report it and he did.

[Caller]

And how this went on for four years, I have no idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, he. Because no one was looking at it. That's why. They must have got audited or something is how they found it. Yeah. So, yeah, I think you can go back and file amended returns and get it off of you. And I think that's what I would look at doing and let the other guys know, hey, you know we were supposed to have sent you 1099. We didn't. Sorry about that. But you have to pay taxes on income. You knew that and you knew you got income. And if you didn't pay, if you did pay taxes on it, then you're in game. Problem. If you didn't, then you're have some tax due on. That's going to come back at you for that. So, yeah, I think you're going to have to. I. I think that's what I'm going to explore doing. I don't. I know you can file amended returns. What I don't know is if you can send 1099s three years late as a result of amended return. I don't know about that, but I'm going to check with your tax person. I may get a new tax person because this one's not giving you much answers.

[Caller]

I'm hoping they told them to, like make an LLC and open an actual business.

[Dave Ramsey]

They got it figured out. Going forward, you don't even have to have an llc. You just got to keep up your book and you have to distribute 1099s. You have to have a set of books. That shows that I didn't keep all this money that I distributed. It was dispersed to the other business that we're running. The other partners has expenses and the expenses are the payroll, the contracted payroll. So. Yeah, and so you can. That's fairly easy. You can run as a sole proprietor. You can run as llc. The one's fine going forward. That doesn't matter. But the back tax thing is just due to you didn't show the expenses. But you've got checking, you've got checks that went out. So you've got proof that the money was distributed. I think you need a new accountant.

[Caller]

I'd get a second opinion.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm gonna.

[Caller]

And I'm hoping all these guys are like grown men with jobs. It sounds like this is a fun side gig for them. So I'm hoping they have enough integrity and income to just help him cover this and then fix it moving forward. If I was the friend, I would do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But I don't. I don't know that we have to give them a choice. I think you need to file 1099s and then it's up to them to deal with it. Because all we're trying to do is get the money off of you, the.

[Caller]

Liability off of him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And if we can get it off of you and it goes to them, then let them know you're gonna get. If you hadn't paid taxes on the income I gave you, you should have. And now you're gonna have to. That's the answer. It's not like do it out of the goodness of your heart thing. It's just you should have been paying. If he distributed the money, it was income and they didn't claim the income, that's on them. But if they claim the income, it makes it even that much easier. Yeah. If they didn't claim the income, now they get to claim it. Hello. They should have. I mean that. That's. If you're receiving money from someone. Folks for work, that's income and you're supposed to put that on your tax return whether you got a 1099 or not.

[Caller]

And whether you like it or not. That's integrity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, that's just how it works.

[Caller]

So I'm just glad to see musicians making money. That's the most impressive part of this whole story. Just a grown man going, I'm sorry, band, my friends, we're going to make some. That's some fun side money right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, they made $40,000 a year total among four of them. Yeah.

[Caller]

So 10k year each maybe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And they spent that on guitars.

[Caller]

So, yeah, that's all going back to gear.

[Dave Ramsey]

James. James did anyway.

[Caller]

But yeah, this is the, the, the, you know, the curse of the creative is that they're not very business minded. They just want to make art and play the music.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. You know, think about that. You're exactly right.

[Caller]

And so they go, business mind. This is. We're not going to worry about that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what I would do, Eva, is I would go to ramseysolutions.com and I would click on endorse local provider Ramsey trusted ELPs for tax help and get someone to consider filing amended returns for those years and properly doing this and getting rid of the tax liability. Because the IRS is simply saying you haven't claimed the expenses or the income. So we're just going to stuff the income down your throat. So you need to go file admitted returns that show the expenses, which is the payroll, the distribution of the payroll, and that's a 1099 issue. And you need to file the income. And when you do that, it makes the tax bill go away. Except for the part that your husband actually did make, which would be roughly a fourth of this, I suspect. It sounds like. Amy is in Los Angeles. Hi, Amy, how are you?

[George Kamel]

Hi, Amy. I'm well. Thank you so much, you guys, for taking my call. So appreciative of what you guys do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you.

[George Kamel]

Okay, thank you. So I have an inheritance from grandparents, may they rest in peace. I inherited $163,000. I was on baby step three when I got the inheritance. So I plan on tithing, obviously a certain amount and setting aside, you know, automatically filling up that emergency fund that I had been working on. My question is with the rest of the money? So I'm a mom of a five year old. I'm currently single and we live with my mom. My son has been asking for his own room for about a year now. So I have basically five options. And my goal in this phone call is to seek godly counsel as to what I should do since I have that inheritance. Putting a down payment on a house would be awesome, but in la, I don't want to be house poor with a high mortgage. I was thinking possibly just renting with my son somewhere in LA and investing that money. I heard that maybe I could do that. Invest it, you know, for more, for a long term. And then I was thinking I could also just change careers so that I'm less tied to Los Angeles and possibly look into, you know, moving to a more affordable area. There's also my mom offered for us to build an ADU with that money on top of the garage so my son and I can be here with my mom and my grandmother. It's just the four of us. I was also thinking maybe doing a duplex. So I was really looking forward to getting some godly counsel on how to make like honor the memory of my grandparents with this money and use it in a wise way.

[Dave Ramsey]

How heartbreaking is it to change cities and change careers? That sounds like the best option.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, it's. That's a little. Pretty heartbreaking. Difficult. My extended family is in Valley area. But most, most importantly my. It's basically just me, my mom, my son and my grandma. And she's tied in la. So it was. She works in LA and. Yeah, she works here. She has three more years until retirement. So that's like a. That would be a huge move. I don't know that I could handle that, but that is something that I've been praying about.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the best move for you and your child, with the exception of it breaking your mother's heart and your grandmother's heart. Could they leave LA and join you wherever you go upon retirement three years from now?

[George Kamel]

Yeah, possibly. Possibly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's talk about that. Do not. I don't want you to ruin your life away trying to stay near your grandmother. Okay.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. And I don't want you to build onto their house for sure. Absolutely. Don't do that. So I. The one I like best is the move. What do you think?

[Caller]

Yeah, that gets you to home ownership faster, which was the big goal you stated there. Sustainability versus the down payment in la. That's not going to get you very far. As you said, that's a lot of home you got to buy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you know, it doesn't matter. Match. The only reason you're there is mom and grandma. Well, this isn't just another summer sale. The summer Black Friday sale at Ramsey gives you the Tools that help you win with money, relationships, career, all without blowing your budget. You can check back every day because we're dropping new deals all week long. This is the week. It ends on Friday. We've got products like audio books and ebooks, Questions for humans decks the get clear assessment merch books and books books go to Ramsey Solutions.com store if you're wanting a deal or if you're on YouTube or podcast, you can always use the link in the description. Sale ends on Friday, July 18th. Judy is in Canada. Hi Judy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Kamel]

Hi, Dave and George. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[George Kamel]

Hi. So I have a question and I was hoping to get some of your insight on my question. So my father presented an opportunity where I could invest in a home with him. Currently I have, I would say, a significant amount of debt and I wanted to know what both of your thoughts are on doing that. Whether it's not a good idea in general, if I should pay the debt off and then think about doing it later.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you, a grown lady, buy a house with your dad? That sounds kind of like you're going back home or something. Them.

[George Kamel]

So I currently live at home now, but we rent and that's why I was kind of. I'm 28.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

So I finished.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your plan is to be 48 and living with your dad?

[George Kamel]

Well, absolutely not. So his thoughts were that we can, you know, I'm planning on moving on the next couple of years, but the goal was to pay off some of my remaining law school debt. Once that gets down to zero, I would leave and presumably he would find a way to get me off the mortgage and then from there he would take over, just paying it off.

[Caller]

You're assuming he can take the mortgage on his own, which right now he can't. What makes you think he will in the future?

[George Kamel]

Yeah, so that's my concern. Like, I don't, I don't think he can.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I, I'm thinking about this is a trap.

[Caller]

It's akin to him buying a car and saying, hey, will you co sign? It's going to be great. It's an opportunity. We can both own this car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, no thanks.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, and I was curious if you guys have any maybe tips or suggestions on how to navigate that conversation. Like, I know it's something, I think he's had a vision of wanting to own a home. But my concern is I don't want that to be on kind of on my back and at my expense down the road.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I wouldn't even go there. I would just say, yeah, thanks. Really. I really appreciate you thinking enough of me to give me the opportunity to do this, dad. But after thinking about it, I think I really just want to work on getting my law school debt clear. And I don't really want to get in the homeownership thing right now, but thank you.

[George Kamel]

Okay. I appreciate that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here's the thing. Less is better in this conversation. If you get nervous about it and keep talking and talking and talking, you're going to say something that's going to do harm. Just make it very brief and concise. Dad, I love you. Thank you for thinking of me on this. I've thought about it. I want to work on my law school debt instead. I don't really want to have that hanging around, and I'm going to have to pass on this one, but thanks for offering it. See, that was like 15 seconds there. Not four and a half minutes. If you do four and a half minutes, you're not going to land the plane and the whole thing's going to crash.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And it sounds like he's a good salesman, and so he's probably going to have some objections and want to overcome them. And so you got to be careful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just circle back to. Yeah, but thanks, but I thought about it, and I really. I'm just going to. I'm going to work my plan on getting out of debt. That's all I'm. And just keep going back to that and just isn't. You don't need to explain to him anything about him. It's about you. It's about. I have this goal, and I'm going to work on this goal. I has nothing to do with you. There's nothing to do with. I mean, I'm not. It's not that I'm afraid you're not going to be able to pay it off or get me out of it or anything like that. It just sounds. But. But. But between you and me, Judy, this is a trap. He doesn't mean for it to be, but you're going to get stuck in this. Don't do it.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Please don't do it.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, no, for sure. I appreciate that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Hey, thanks for the call.

[Caller]

I've seen a lot of these on the show. Dave, you've seen probably 4,000 more. I've never seen them work out.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they don't.

[Caller]

Everyone's happy. And no one. No one's relationship was strained because of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, here's the thing. A Lot of times when you're looking at a decision like this, if you'll do two things with the decision, both of them will probably tell you the same thing. One is go way out in the future and visit the decision and go, okay, you're 28, and that's what I did. When you're 48, do you want to be. No. Okay, there we go. That tells us we're on the wrong road. Right? And the other thing you can do is expand the size of the decision and say, okay, if this makes sense for this, what if we wanted to move 10 houses together? Oh, no. Well, then one doesn't make sense for the same reason, 10 doesn't make sense. You know, and so if you, if you add scale to it and you add time and distance to it and it doesn't make sense, that tells you that you're thinking short term. The only time it makes sense is in the moment. And moment in the moment is always a bad decision financially. You always have to think long term. And as Zig Ziglar used to say, you know, people that think long term. So millionaires have library, have big libraries, poor people have big TVs. You know, that was what he always said. Let's see, that's thinking now versus long term. So you're always thinking long term, long term, long term. And you know, to keep going on that thread for the rest of you out there, not just Judy's sake, but the. One of the favorite studies I ever saw was when I first started on the show 30 years ago. I ran into this. And they ask people about giving and they ask someone, a child or they ask a child about giving, and the child, their experience with giving. And they described receiving something. Oh, and then they ask a young person about giving and they tell the time that they gave $20 to the homeless guy. And then they ask the old person about giving and they talk about a lifetime of steadily tithing at their church. So it means something different when you've got this longevity to it.

[Caller]

The stage of life and the perspective.

[Dave Ramsey]

And in the same sense, the same types of research is like they ask wealthy people what blocks of time, what vision do they think in? They think in 10 and 20 and 30 year blocks of time. And poor people think in terms of, thank God it's Friday because they're worried about food, worried about lights, worried about the party on the weekend. But wealthy people thinking, okay, when I do this, how's it going to affect me 10 years from now? How's it going to affect me 20 years from now. And so they buy a different kind of car, a different way. When you're thinking 10 years out, then you're thinking, how's it going to feel Friday? Friday is a completely different car than ten years from now.

[Caller]

Well, and when you think about the short term in an opportunity, that always is a trigger word for me. I go, oh, there's a red flag coming up here. When they say I have an opportunity to do something that's going to harm me in the long term.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a word that just. Yeah, that word should throw up. Pyrotechnics.

[Caller]

Yes. And so there's. You think about the short term benefits in those cases, but rarely do you think about the long term consequences, which is this question. What happens when. What happens when she moves out and meets a nice man and now she goes, hey, Dad, I need to get out of this situation. I need my money out. Well, he's got to now refinance and afford it on his own or he just refuses. And now you got a situation on your hands.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And it's your dad. How do I make my dad own me now?

[Caller]

You break the relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

How do I. How do I put my dad in the street? Well, you don't ever get in a situation where you have to make that decision. That's what you're saying.

[Caller]

And he's using her as a proxy to accomplish his goal, whether intentionally or unintentionally, which is only going to hurt this relationship and turn it into a transactional one. So for a lot of reasons, I don't like this. On top of crippling law school debt, let's not get into an investment property while we're trying to clean that up for real.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that this is a trap. Yeah, but you're right. That word, opportunity. I have an opportunity.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Maybe it's a needle in a haystack on this show for you to tell us you have an opportunity. And we go, yeah, no, that's a great opportunity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, occasionally that happens, but yeah, there we go.

[Caller]

Oh, boy. Tread lightly when it comes to family and real estate and finances. We've. We've taken a lot more calls lately about that, and it's become more of a relationship discussion than it is financial and it's boundary conversations. You had a lot of those. It's toxic in laws that want to force you to do something. It never ends well. So just we tell people, stay away, keep your family as family, not as business partners.

[Dave Ramsey]

Works for me. Buying and selling a home is a big deal. And you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent.

[George Kamel]

Live.

[Dave Ramsey]

From the headquarters of RAMT Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today Tripp is in Houston. Hey Tripp. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Kamel]

Hey Dave.

[Caller]

Thank you. Thank you all for taking my call today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure, man. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I've got an interesting situation I want your advice on. My wife and I are young, in our early 30s. We're very fortunate, about to make our first million and she's a dentist working in her mom's practice. In September, we're going to be buying half the practice. We're very happy about that. However, there's a space next to their office that's been vacant for a while and we're thinking of buying this office space, renovating it for a specialist and maybe hiring on a specialist to this business so that we can. There's a lot of referral cases that go out that we're sort of losing the revenue on. And we think that if we could have a specialist work in the office, we'd be able to capture that revenue. But it just. I'm torn because there are a lot of issues that we're not comfortable with about hiring on a specialized employee and also using debt to expand the business. I mean, we have to take probably a seven figure loan out to do this. So I was hoping as a successful entrepreneur you could give me a bit of guidance on this.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd pass. Yeah.

[Caller]

You think just stick with the way the business is going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, I don't mind expanding the business, but I'm not expanding it with debt because 100% of the time that you do something with debt, you magnify your mistakes. And obviously we don't see mistakes when we're doing it. And so I mean, anything that can go wrong will here. So how long has your wife been a dentist?

[Caller]

She's been working for four years now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so she was not in practice in 2020.

[Caller]

That was her graduation year. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But her mother was.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You think you Want to survive 2020 with a seven figure loan? I don't.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's. That's one thing we've talked about is they've not really seen a slowdown.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

No practice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, they did in 2020. There was nobody coming in to get their teeth cleaned in 2020, buddy.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think they did okay. They did okay during COVID but obviously they're. There's definitely a slowdown. And then another thing that I, you know, even if.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, honey, let's say no. Wait a minute. I'm sorry. You really don't believe that, do you? Okay. Dentists in the middle of COVID did not do okay. Their. Their income evaporated for a period of time. No one went to the dentist in the middle of COVID Zero. Think about it. Now. I don't know what period of time that was in Houston, Texas, whether it was a three month period of time or a two month period of time or an eight month period of time. And Texas opened up faster than a lot of people did. But these are the types of things you face in business from time to time. Now, we don't. Covid was a highly unusual experience. And I'm not predicting that in the future. But my point is, is that when your plan can't survive negative consequences in the marketplace, that you can't control something like a Covid, then your plan's a bad plan. And that's why you don't borrow seven figures to expand a business.

[Caller]

Absolutely. Do you mind if I ask just one more follow up?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

So imagine that we had the cash on hand to not take a loan out and do it all hiring on a specialized employee. What do you think are maybe some pros and cons to that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the pros are that you're dealing with a wonderful team member, hopefully, if you get it, someone that's culturally aligned with you and that believes in running a business the way that you believe in running a business and so forth. But the pros are that typically when you're dealing with a highly specialized employee, you're dealing with somebody that's smart, so they're easier to work with than dumb people. So that's the pro. The negative is that the referral flow might not be like you think it does. And so I'm gonna try to figure out. I'm gonna do some detailed. If I own this practice, I'm gonna do some detail. Before I did this with cash, I would do some detailed analysis of exactly how many referrals we've Sent out and exactly what they were worth. Not just this vague feeling of, oh, we send a lot of business over there. Okay, great. But let's look at exactly what that is. So I'll give you an example. We built this building in 2019 and we were making the decision of whether or not to put a cafe in here because Ramsey spends a ton of money on food. And that was our feeling when we actually investigated at the other place where we didn't have a cafe. And we were bringing in catering all the time for different things happening inside the building and with clients, with each other, meetings that needed to have, you know, chick fil a or whatever. When we actually added up the actual accounting of what we spent on money, it made the cafe decision easy by looking at actual data. Okay, so you might look into this. And the referrals are so juicy and there's so many of them that hiring the specialized person when you actually have the data in front of you, it makes it a no brainer. Yes, we've got to do this once we can save up the money to pull this off. Okay. But no, I'm not borrowing seven figures to do anything in business, period. You knew that before you called Dave Ramsey. So that's not new.

[Caller]

How are you guys purchasing the half of the business? What's that going to cost?

That's also a loan. But the extra income as an owner, our increase in income pays the note on the loan and also gives us about a 50% increase in take home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, in take loan, yeah, it goes to the loan. You don't get to use any of that money. You have to put it all on the loan because you got to get this loan paid off really, really fast.

[Caller]

Is this a seven figure loan as well?

It's going to be about 800,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much student loan debt does she have left?

[Caller]

We are just about done with the student loan debt. I think there's something like 80,000 left on it and it's actually a zero percent loan. Her parents.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dude, you are. You are in love with borrowing money like nobody ever met because you just. We're almost done. 80,000 is almost done. Oh, but it's zero. It's $80,000 in debt. Yeah. You have no perception of debt equals risk and you are in a danger zone for that reason. Debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk 100% of the time. And until you get that right, you're about to trip over yourself and make a mistake here. A bunch of them in a row. So. But the answer to Your question there earlier is once you have the cash, once you get all this paid off, the 480 or the $880,000. God, I can't breathe. No, just don't do it.

[Caller]

I hope you continue to out earn all the decisions you've been making. I really do. You're making a million dollars this year. You better keep living like you make a hundred because it's going to be a grind to get out of this, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Dentists borrow money like nobody I've ever met.

[Caller]

They made Congress look frugal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ouch. That scares the crap out of me, y'. All. This is the right. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, everybody. Our summer Black Friday sale is here. Here's how it works. Each day this week has a new deal. This isn't just random stuff. It's the books, merch and products that help keep you fired up for your goals. They give you the encourage hope you need. So if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, now's the time to get tools that really work. Check back daily so you don't miss the deals. Go to ramseysolutions.com store today. Ramseysolutions.com store. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. These are new trainings on how to handle money every week this month. And they're hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. George is doing some of them this Thursday. I'll be doing one this Thursday.

[Caller]

Join us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gonna show you how to stick to a budget and even find the average is $9,000 in margin. When you go through this, that's like a $9,000 head start. I like this. Using every dollar so you can get out of debt, start building wealth, be in agreement with your spouse. Things start working and you can ask us any question during the live Q and A. It's almost like calling in on the show, except easier. Sign up for [e-mail] webinar and George will be with you this Thursday. Nick is in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Nick. How are you?

[George Kamel]

Good.

[Caller]

How are you today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I work for a small company, pays really, really well. But unfortunate side, it doesn't have any 401k. No investing, anything like that. And I'm just so. Last Halloween, my mother passed away and she literally had nothing. And I just. When that day inevitably comes for me, I don't want my kids to have to Go through that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen.

[Caller]

You know, financing it and everything like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Thank you. And I'm just. What would you recommend? I have a general idea on, on how everything works, but what do you think would be the best bet for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you married?

[Caller]

Yes, married, two kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You can both do Roth IRAs for $7,000 each. How old are you?

[Caller]

32.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Each. So you can put 14,000 a year into two Roth IRAs between the two of you. So that's more than $1,000 a month. What's your, what's your household income?

[Caller]

Around eight grand a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so you know, that gets you a long way. Are you fighting through any debt first?

[Caller]

No debt free, other than our mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. All right. And you have your emergency fund in place?

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then what we teach folks is to try to get 15% of their income going into retirement. And so if you put, if you're making eight grand a month, you're making $100,000 a year. That's take home pay, right? Yes. Okay, so you're probably making like 130, right?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so, you know, we need to get this to about 17,000, but 14,000 is two of those. Does your wife have a 401k at her work?

[Caller]

She will. She is in between jobs. She is currently being hired on to government job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Federal job. I guess you would be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I would do a couple of Roth IRAs. And just go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor Pro. And that's the people that we recommend. We're not in the investment business, but these are the people that we've checked out and they have the heart of a teacher. And they'll sit down and teach you how to do this and put it together for you. And to teach you, put it in good growth stock mutual funds. We suggest you spread it across four types. It's what I do. It's what George does. Growth Growth and income Aggressive growth and international. Four types of mutual funds. And you can spread those, you know, these two Roth IRAs across that very easily and start investing steadily. You can have that automatically drafted from your checking account. And it's just every month it's just gonna, you know, your money's gonna come home and then you're gonna, it's gonna come outta your checking account as a budget item. Right.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's very easy to do, but you just need to learn a little bit about it from one of the SmartVestor pros they've got the heart of a teacher and they'll walk you through this process. But you're gonna retire with a lot of money if you do that and then add another few thousand dollars over in your wife's 401k at the new place and you'll be at your 15%. And then you start working on baby step six, pay off the house. Right? Right.

[Caller]

You said you're 32.

Yep.

Okay. I just, I crunch the numbers for you from 32 to 65. If you just invest that 15%, you guys never get a raise, which would be very unlikely. You'd have 4 million in that one account. So I want to give you some hope that it doesn't have to. You can break the, the cycle that's been in your family. And I think you guys are going to do that based on your, the way you're talking in this call.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if he's half wrong, you still got two mates. And he's not half wrong, I'm telling you. So that's what steady investing does from 32 to 65.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're going to be wealthy and just because, and you know, so you know, it stinks the way you got your wake up call. But the good news is it woke you up, right? So, yeah, make that call. Get on, get on Ramsey Solutions as soon as you get off the phone, get on Ramsolutions.com.

[Caller]

There'S $4 million on the line. Let's get this done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Click on get you a smartvestor pro in your area that you like. You and your wife sit down with them and begin a relationship that lasts 20 years, 30 years with your financial planner of sorts here. And the smartvestor pro will walk you through this and show you exactly how to do it. And you know, yeah, you're doing really good. And the good news is you, you caught this in time. You know, you got, still got a lot of time on your side. Yeah.

[Caller]

And the simplest strategy is five words. It's match beats Roth beats traditional. So if you have an employer match, take that first, then go to all your Roth options. For you guys, that would be the Roth IRAs, then move to traditional. And if you run out of buckets and you still haven't hit 15%, then you can move to a non retirement account if need be to do your investing. But that's a great problem to have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

If you've maxed out all of those accounts.

[Dave Ramsey]

The eighth wonder of the world, Albert Einstein said compound interest.

[Caller]

It's amazing because I just said 4 million. Only a half million of that was actual contributions that he's going to invest.

[Dave Ramsey]

You pull that up on our site?

[Caller]

I did.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we have that.

[Caller]

We have the calculator on our site, the investment calculator. Ramsolutions.com it might as well be my homepage. I use it so often. That's how much of a nerd I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave, it worked pretty good.

[Caller]

I like when math gives you hope, when math makes you hopeless, it's not fun. But when it gives you hope to show. If I just keep this up over a long period of time, I'm going to be very wealthy. But most people only see the short term and go, what's 500 bucks going to do if I invest in it?

[Dave Ramsey]

The first time I saw that, I have a finance degree, for God's sakes. But the first time I saw that, I was in my 20s and I was working and I went, oh, God.

[Caller]

The power of compound growth.

[Dave Ramsey]

A hundred bucks a month and I can be a millionaire. I mean, really? Yeah, because it personalizes it. It's me. I can do. This changes everything. Jessica is in New York City. Hi, Jessica. How are you?

[George Kamel]

Good, how are you? Thanks so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[George Kamel]

So I recently became partner of a law firm in January of last year, and I leased my car prior to that and now my lease is up in December. Around August last year, I became a Ramsey fan and started doing the baby stat. And I'm curious. I have a K1, and I'm curious what your thoughts would be. Should I continue to lease so I could get the tax write off, or should I go ahead and purchase a car in cash for this next car that's coming up?

[Dave Ramsey]

We got to work on this Ramsey fan thing part with you. No, we're not leasing a car. It's the most expensive way to operate a vehicle, and a tax write off doesn't make it smart. You understand? If you get a tax write off for $10,000, it saves you 2500 in taxes. Right? You give the lease company $10,000, it saves YOU 2500.

[Caller]

You're stepping over a dollar to pick up a quarter.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, so we're. No, we're not keeping a tax write off. It's trading dollars for quarters.

[Caller]

What are you driving, Jessica? I'm curious. Sounds like a nice ride.

[George Kamel]

Mercedes.

[Caller]

Oh, boy. What are you making a year?

[George Kamel]

350.

[Caller]

Okay, you're telling me you can't afford to just go outright buy a Mercedes in cash?

[George Kamel]

Well, I'M on baby step number two. So I took everything in my savings and I brought it down to a thousand so I could pay off a boat and all kinds of toys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, good for you. I'm proud you're getting out of debt, kiddo. And part of your getting out of debt is you're going to turn the lease car in and figure out something to ride in until you can save up the money and get clear of baby step two and buy you a good car. You make enough money to not be broke and you're on your way out. But let's not stay in debt. And a lease is a debt you've already made partner.

[Caller]

You got no one else to impress. You've made it to the top. So what car you drive into the parking lot, who cares? Yeah, you own the place.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's. Congratulations, you're doing really well. You're on a good track though. And no, we're not going to stay. A car lease is a the most expensive, mathematically the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. It's horrible.

[Caller]

It's just a really expensive car rental business where you prepay all the depreciation with a bunch of restrictions.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's one way of looking at it that's accurate.

[Caller]

Doesn't sound fun.

[George Kamel]

Sam.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey everybody. Our summer Black Friday sale is here. Here's how it works. Each day this week has a new deal. This isn't just random stuff. It's the books, merch and products that help keep you fired up for your goals. They give you the encouragement and hope you need. So if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, now's the time to get tools that really work. Check back daily so you don't miss the deals. Go to ramseysolutions.com store today ramseysolutions.com store. Laura is in Seattle. Hey Laura, what's up?

[George Kamel]

Hi. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking this call. Okay, so I'm calling because I was laid off almost two weeks ago and it was a bit of a surprise. We had our second second child set to start daycare in August and they required a full month's tuition as deposit. Like last year like when we knew she was going to be born soon. And so that was paid and I knew that was non refundable anyway. Oh, I should also say we are in debt and we have like student loans and we've been doing baby steps and using the EveryDollar app. So you know, right now every dollar is important to us. And so anyway, we decided to Give notice right away. On the day that I got my layoff notice, my mom, grandma said she could help watch the baby. And I just decided to enroll for one month in August and then withdraw her at the end of the month, which falls into their 45 day withdrawal notice terms. In the contract. Based on our friends who are lawyers, they said this should all be good and the deposit would go towards the first month and the last month's tuition. And that's, yeah, $3,400, which is a lot for us. Anyway, talked to them after some emotional back and forth, realized they were not going to budge on this. They demanded that we had to enroll her for a second month in September, at which time there would be a whole week off for a holiday as well as a $350 increase in tuition, which I just was not willing to take the chance based on the job market.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm sorry, I got lost. The contract said that you could go in August and half of September. And they're not abiding by the contract.

[George Kamel]

45 days withdrawal notice was July 2nd. And so we were going to be able to withdraw August 31st and then our deposit would pay for the last month's tuition, which in our case would also be first month's tuition. Anyway, it was emotional and it kind of. Well, based on the contract, we, we just, we had planned this and we just didn't think there was going to be a problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

So why are they thinking they don't abide by the contract?

[George Kamel]

That's my question exactly. And, and so it was really, I was really confused why they weren't. They were saying that it said something else. And we asked some lawyer friends and they said we were right. So I kind of sent this. You know, I tried to be as professional and clear as possible. I sent a last email, included the board and said this is done. And I knew that I was really emotional because of the layoff and I have two babies at home and I just wanted to end it there. My husband and I were getting really emotional over it and you know, I just wanted to like, I guess protect our peace. And I just knew that we could just unenroll and eat the deposit. However, we have a lot of friends, both lawyers, Christian non Christian, who are all like, that's a lot of money, you should fight them for it. And I'm just trying to figure out.

[Dave Ramsey]

If it's, it's just not worth it.

[George Kamel]

Okay, easy answer.

[Caller]

I mean, it's gonna cost you that much in retainer fees to get the money back.

[George Kamel]

Right. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to burn your calories getting in a new job, not fooling with daycare like people that you don't want your kid with anyway.

[George Kamel]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

If you can't trust them, then I don't trust my kid with them.

[George Kamel]

Exactly. I mean, it's sad because our first child was there and we loved it, so this was so surprising.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now you don't. Now I don't love it because I don't like the people. If the people that run it are mean, I don't want them watching my kids.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so one more question. We had someone say you should, because it's a breach. You should just say, like, we're gonna leave a review, like a Google review, unless you give us a deposit back. I don't know if I like does that. How do you feel about that?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fine. I mean, the truth is, is that they didn't go along with the contract. And if you left the truth in a Google review, you know, and you've got email proof of that. But, you know, the point. The point is, I'm not sure why you. Why it matters.

[George Kamel]

Well, that's what I was wondering. You know, the amount. Just.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't. Do you think. Do you think you call those people or you email those people and you say, hey, I'm gonna leave a trashy review on you if you don't give me my money back since you breached the contract, since you didn't go along by the contract, you think they're gonna send your money back? I don't.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I don't either. I guess.

[Dave Ramsey]

So then you just leave a treasure review. What's the. I mean, Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't think you're gonna get your money back here. I really don't. I don't think these people are gonna give you your money back. You don't either.

[George Kamel]

All right.

[Caller]

I think you'll leave the review to vent and they probably won't do anything. They might respond to the comment and defending themselves publicly so that the Internet can see it. But I don't think threatening them over the phone saying, I'm gonna leave a review if you don't. Again, like today's point, I don't think you're gonna get anywhere with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

If. If I thought. If I thought it'd give me the money back, I would, but I don't think it will based on the other interaction.

[George Kamel]

That makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Thank you for that maybe your friends.

[Caller]

Take it on pro bono to help you out. I don't know. I know they go, hey, we're just going to write a letter saying, here's what the contract states. It sounds like their interpretation of the contract is different than yours.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but it doesn't matter. You're not going to put your kid over there in August anyway.

[George Kamel]

Yes, correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not letting my kid go over there. No way.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is a blessing. You discovered. You discovered bad people were getting ready to be watching your kid. And so that's a good. It's a good thing that this worked out this way. So, yeah, you know, go. Go get you another position and find some other childcare, makes other arrangements for child care and go on with your life. And dad, gum. I hate this. I'm sorry. Just very inconvenient. But it turned out great because otherwise you'd had your kid over there. Oh, my God. And then what would you have discovered two years later, you know? Oh, man. No, thank you. No, I don't. Yeah, it's really, really good. So. Wow. Myra is with us in Virginia Beach. Hey, Myra, how are you?

[George Kamel]

I'm doing good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Kamel]

All right. Okay. So basically I'm on baby steps to baby step two in trying to pay down debt. Now, my question is I'm using the snowball method, but the question is I have personal debt as well as small business debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your small business debt is personal too. You signed for 100%.

[George Kamel]

So that's my question. I have been solely focusing on the personal.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's irrelevant.

[George Kamel]

So I should take the whole picture and apply the smallest.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much? How much business debt in quotes do you have.

[George Kamel]

Too much? Roughly about 65. And it's including a very bad choice that I made last year in buying a new car, thinking I was getting a great deal because my husband works with dealer. Yes. Terrible decision.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is. Wait a minute. This is for the business?

[George Kamel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have a car for the business?

[George Kamel]

Exactly.

[Caller]

What kind of business is this?

[George Kamel]

Tech fix, Repair center. Computer, cell phone technology replacement. Like screen replacements, computer repair, gaming system.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Sell the car.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I know. I knew you were gonna say that.

[Caller]

You're saying your husband works at the dealership?

[George Kamel]

He works at a car dealership. Yeah.

[Caller]

Can he get you unhose that of the steel you got hosed on?

[George Kamel]

I'm. Trust me, I'm looking.

[Caller]

When did you get it?

[George Kamel]

Trying to figure out the last year. July.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it brand new?

[George Kamel]

Unfortunately, yes. I mean, I did get it. $8,000. It doesn't matter. It's stuck in a loan. You know how the interest is. Terrible, terrible, terrible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Definitely would undo the terrible. Sell the car for sure.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so yeah, so take. Because it is considered all personal debt. So work on the snowball between the two.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And what's. How much personal debt do you have? Have aside from the car. Car and the other little business debt?

[George Kamel]

Roughly about 12. I was, I said my husband.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much is the car?

[George Kamel]

Well, when you factor in all the interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm saying what's on the payoff on the car, not the interest. What's the payoff on the car?

[George Kamel]

Roughly 27.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you have 77, 40,000 in other stuff. Stuff on the business.

[George Kamel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[George Kamel]

And basically we're trying to make better choices.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's your household income? Yeah, what's your household income?

[George Kamel]

Household income combined is roughly 82 to 85.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But basically, if you sell the car, you've got, if you sell the car, you got $52,000 in debt, you make 85.

[George Kamel]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so you got 18 to 24 million months to be debt free. Yeah. That's your plan? Sell a car for sure.

[Caller]

Don't overthink it. Start attacking those debts, smallest to largest. Get rid of this car. It's not the deal breaker in the business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's not. It's not. Not. No screens are getting replaced with this car. I can tell you that. W.

[George Kamel]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 15:22. Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisors, they succeed. Al Rise said, you don't have to focus on everything to be successful, but you do have to focus on something. Amen. Morgan is with us in Wichita, Kansas. Hey, Morgan, how are you? You?

[George Kamel]

I'm good. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Kamel]

All right, So I am 27 years old, I'm a teacher, and starting in September, I will have a raise to 50,000 a year. I'm still living at home in my parents house, in their basement, and I have no debt. I am starting a master's degree, but I have the cash saved up for that already. So the question is, is it wise to, now that I have this raise to go ahead and take the jump to living in an apartment?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Okay. So don't wait to save up for a house. Just jump right in.

[Caller]

You'll be there for 28 years.

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Caller]

You'll keep saving, you'll get comfy. Mama's cooking's Good. The laundry is getting folded by someone else else. And for that reason, I would fly the coop.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, you're doing great. I was out by 30. Like hard. Like hard and. But okay.

[Caller]

Out by fall.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

You got this.

[George Kamel]

Do what?

[Caller]

Get some roommates if you want to. Get some gals and, you know.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And make it happen on your own.

[George Kamel]

Struggles finding communities like. So the roommate situations never actually worked out, but it's finally able to. Where? I think I can find an apartment. I think I found an apartment that is in a safe area that I can actually afford.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Good for you. Yeah. I think it's gonna change your life.

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the next stage in your maturity and your development, and it's gonna affect everything else you're doing in a positive way. Taking on the responsibility of being head of household. It's gonna be wonderful for you.

[Caller]

You work harder at your job, you get better at relationships. There's something that changes when you're on your own that is just good for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm excited for you. It's time.

[Caller]

And you'll get to home ownership. I have no doubts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, no question. You're a planner and you're a teacher. Thank you for doing that, by the way. Very cool. Sarah is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

[George Kamel]

I'm fine. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Kamel]

I've been doing the Ramsey plan for several years. I was diagnosed with a disease that was going to make our house not feasible for me. Everything was upstairs, so we were going to have to change. We looked around for something and there was nothing that was not going to be extremely expensive. So we opted for a heloc, which I know is against your rules, but it was the cheapest that we could do. And now I'm wondering, what baby step am I on? Is a HELOC actually? Baby step two.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, if it's. Is it. How much is it?

[George Kamel]

I had 50,000 saved up.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is the HELOC?

[George Kamel]

The HELOC has 67,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

What do you guys make?

[George Kamel]

About 110.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It's a mortgage. Then it falls in baby step six.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The rule we use is if it's less than half your annual income, we put it in baby step two, but it's more than half your annual income. And what's your first mortgage balance?

[George Kamel]

21,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what's your interest rate on the HELOC?

[George Kamel]

6.2, I think. And my mortgage is 3.1.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you ain't got any mortgage. You got 21,000. Okay.

[George Kamel]

Do you have any other debts that we have? We know we have no other bet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I'm gonna plow through both of these pretty quick then. Even though they're baby. Even though they're baby step six.

[George Kamel]

That's my plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because you don't have much balance here, So, I mean, 80 grand. And you own this house. Right?

[George Kamel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or 90 grand, really. Not 88. So. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to get after that when I'm on the really, really quick. Emma's in Minneapolis. Hi, Emma. How are you?

[George Kamel]

I'm great. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. How can we help?

[George Kamel]

Awesome. Okay, so my husband and I were young. We're 21 and 22. And I know. I've heard you say that you can pause investing for two years and save up for a down payment. I'm wondering. I want you to tell me exactly what you think we should do, because right now we are only investing about 4%, but we're saving the rest for a down payment. Should we stop investing completely for a down payment?

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income right now?

[George Kamel]

It's flexible because we're both in college. Around 50 to 75,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're in college.

[George Kamel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

When will you graduate from college?

[George Kamel]

We both have one year left.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're going to save until after you graduate and after you get jobs to buy a house. But I mean, you're going to. Are you going to stay in the jobs that you're in after you graduate from college?

[George Kamel]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

We'll probably upgrade to better pain, career.

[Dave Ramsey]

Job, and maybe in the same location and maybe not. So. Yeah. So do not. Do not buy until you graduate and do your job upgrades.

[George Kamel]

Well, we don't plan on buying for about two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I'm just making sure. That's part of the program here. That's part of the. No, I would not buy a house while you're in college is what I'm saying.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I know.

[Caller]

And even after that, it might be wise.

[Dave Ramsey]

75,000. So 4% is 3 grand in a year. It doesn't matter. 3 grand is not going to make the swing one way or the other.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Because, I mean, we could do 15%, but our goal is a hundred thousand for a down payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but three grand is not going to make the goal. Yeah, you said you're saving 4%. Should I stop that? Yeah. Yes or no? I don't care. Because it doesn't matter. It's not. It's not enough to matter, to get.

[Caller]

To that Hundred thousand mark.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Or for compound growth, growth, your, your income will increase and that's your savings rate will be the key that gets you there versus a percentage. So you could do 0%, you could do 15% and it's going to slow down your home progress.

[Dave Ramsey]

But at your age, she's asking should she stop doing 4%?

[Caller]

I would just keep it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter. If you want to stop it, it's fine. But it's three grand. Three grand doesn't equal 100. So it doesn't get you to your goal by stopping. If you want to keep doing it, it's fine too. It's three grand. It's not a lot of money. So you're gonna get there and your long term goals, you're gonna hit all of them. But this 4% is not gonna make or break this decision one way or the other. So you're, you're right on track on that stuff. So again, George, let's go back. So baby step one is save $1,000 beginner emergency fund or reduce all of your savings down to $1,000 and throw all of your cash, not counting retirement, at your debts. Baby step two is pay off all your debts, smallest to largest, using the debt snowball. Three is have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. At that point is when you start saving for down payment. And so what she's bringing up is what we always call baby step 3B. How much do you go on to baby step 4 and put 15% into retirement or do you put a little bit in or none in? It's completely up to you is what we say. And what you were pointing out is the more you put into your baby step four, the less down payment savings you have. Her amount that she could reduce her baby step 4 to 0, not put any towards retirement would change the equation only by $3,000. So that's my point on that. It doesn't matter. But our overall point is save up for a house as fast as you can. And they're going to do this very, very young. They're coming out of college, they're already making 75,000 between the two of them. And then they're going to come out of college, get upgrades and jobs and they've got a good savings goals, so they have great long term plans.

[Caller]

I'll be very impressed if they save up 100 grand in two years. I mean they're living like they're broke college kids even after college. And so if you make that sacrifice. They're going to be homeowners by 23.

[Dave Ramsey]

And 24, in a good financial position, strong down payment.

[Caller]

So this is the benefit of working hard to graduate college debt free with money in the bank with a marketable skill and a job on the other side.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, this is very well done. Very well done.

[Caller]

Poster children for how it should be done. And a very logical analytical question.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, the baby sticks. Yeah, very good. Always good to take your percentages and convert them to actual dollars. It helps you go, oh, that's the answer.

[Caller]

I'm losing the match. It's three grand. You'll be okay. You'll survive.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not the end when you're 21 for sure. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the book. So we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Caller]

What if you could watch the Ramsey show before anyone else? Well, good news. Now you can. For the first time ever, you can stream the show a day early in the Ramsey Network app. That's tomorrow's episode today. Real calls, real answers, real fast. It's free, it's easy, and the content might just change your life. So search Ramsey Network in Google Play or the App Store or click the link in the show notes. You never know what calls coming up next.