There Are No Magic Shortcuts To Financial Freedom

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show - "There Are No Magic Shortcuts To Financial Freedom"

Release Date: July 2, 2025 | Host: Ramsey Network

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, hosts George Camel and Dr. John Deloney engage with listeners tackling a variety of financial challenges. From inheritance dilemmas involving family members with addictions to navigating the complexities of divorce and debt management, the duo provides pragmatic advice grounded in Dave Ramsey’s financial principles. Below is a detailed summary of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

---

1. Inheritance Decisions for Family Members with Addictions

Caller: Sarah from Norfolk, Virginia | [00:37 - 07:30]

Issue:
Sarah sought advice on handling an inheritance situation where her father is hesitant to leave a substantial estate to her brother, who has struggled with addiction and legal troubles.

Advice Provided:
George Camel and Dr. Deloney emphasized the importance of protecting the inheritance from being misused. Dr. Deloney suggested that Dave Ramsey would likely exclude an addict from the inheritance to prevent financial harm, stating:

“There’s nothing that doesn’t make your dad a bad person. This is not how he wanted it to go down... he’s not in the will.”
[02:10]

George Camel added compassionately:

“The most compassionate thing that could do is not hand somebody who struggles with meth for his whole life a quarter of a million dollars.”
[04:36]

Conclusion:
They recommended setting up a trust where funds are disbursed directly to rehabilitation services, ensuring the money aids recovery without falling into the wrong hands. Additionally, appointing an impartial executor or a corporate trustee was advised to maintain fairness and prevent family conflicts.

---

2. Navigating Alimony and Spousal Support While Feeling Guilty

Caller: Don from St. Louis | [10:31 - 19:38]

Issue:
Don, divorced and owing $800 monthly in alimony that has remained unpaid for nearly two years, grapples with the guilt stemming from an affair and its impact on his financial obligations.

Advice Provided:
George Camel was initially frustrated but managed to convey the importance of fulfilling legal obligations without personal feelings interfering:

“Do not have heartache about using this piece of $800 as a bridge to get me to economic independence.”
[18:09]

Dr. Deloney emphasized compartmentalizing the guilt associated with past mistakes from the necessity of supporting his family:

“I wouldn’t feel guilty about taking the money. I would try to compartmentalize this and say I feel guilty about the affair… I'm not going to feel guilty about supporting my family.”
[17:56]

Conclusion:
The hosts encouraged Don to prioritize debt repayment and personal financial stability over lingering guilt, suggesting the use of budgeting tools like EveryDollar to allocate funds efficiently toward eliminating his student loans and achieving financial independence.

---

3. Assisting Mother-in-Law with Debt While Living on Fixed Income

Caller: Jill from D.C. | [22:24 - 31:48]

Issue:
Jill inquired about advising her mother-in-law, who has $62,000 in debt while living on a limited income, and faces mounting minimum payments that exceed her monthly earnings.

Advice Provided:
George Camel and Dr. Deloney discussed the importance of prioritizing essential expenses and exploring options such as downsizing or seeking additional income streams. Dr. Deloney suggested:

“If she’s not making minimum payments, it's going to go to collections... selling the home and downsizing could free up significant cash.”
[26:19]

George Camel stressed the urgency of addressing the debt to prevent financial deterioration:

“Every single month she’s active, she’s getting further behind. So it’s a math problem.”
[30:32]

Conclusion:
They advised setting up a detailed budget to identify all expenses and consider selling the home to eliminate debt, thereby reducing financial stress and preserving the mother-in-law’s dignity. Additionally, involving trusted family members or professional trustees was recommended to manage the inheritance responsibly.

---

4. Balancing Part-Time Work with Debt Repayment

Caller: Ali from Grand Rapids | [33:29 - 42:21]

Issue:
Ali, a part-time nurse practitioner with three young children, contemplates transitioning to full-time work to expedite debt repayment but fears the loss of time with her children.

Advice Provided:
George Camel advocated for aggressive debt repayment strategies, encouraging Ali to consider temporary sacrifices for long-term financial freedom:

“We’re going to hammer this thing. Four months, we owe nobody anything.”
[42:21]

Dr. Deloney recommended evaluating all options, including dual incomes and temporary childcare solutions, to determine the most effective path to debt freedom:

“I would explore all the options and look at the math of it and go... you have to accomplish your vision.”
[36:34]

Conclusion:
The hosts stressed the importance of prioritizing financial goals to achieve stability and less stress, suggesting that temporary adjustments in work hours could lead to significant long-term benefits, ultimately allowing Ali to return to part-time work once debts are cleared.

---

5. Dealing with Divorce and Housing Crisis

Caller: Lori from Seattle, Washington | [45:06 - 53:32]

Issue:
Lori, recently divorced after her ex-husband allegedly mismanaged joint finances, now faces living in a mobile home with mounting debts and minimal savings.

Advice Provided:
George Camel and Dr. Deloney discussed strategies for regaining financial control, such as selling depreciated assets and reducing ongoing expenses. Dr. Deloney advised:

“If you owe 9,000, I would write the check and be done with it.”
[84:00]

George Camel recommended practical steps like selling the car to eliminate negative equity and reducing expenses:

“Sell that car and buy a used Corolla... you could pay off all of your debts.”
[52:21]

Conclusion:
They emphasized the necessity of making difficult financial choices to remove herself from a precarious situation. By prioritizing debt repayment and potentially downsizing further or seeking additional income, Lori could rebuild her financial foundation and regain living stability.

---

6. Managing Debt and Potential Job Changes

Caller: Amanda from Cincinnati, Ohio | [55:00 - 75:55]

Issue:
Amanda, earning $49,000 with significant car-related debt — including a $30,000 car loan and an $8,500 personal loan — seeks advice on handling a broken-down vehicle under an extended warranty and maintaining financial stability.

Advice Provided:
George Camel and Dr. Deloney scrutinized the impracticality of her extended warranty relative to her car's value. They advised:

“Do not work less to get more... you need to rather take this job and fight through the payments.”
[70:22]

Dr. Deloney emphasized paying off manageable debts first and reassessing her financial plan:

“Pay off your credit cards today, have a starter emergency fund, and begin to rebuild.”
[48:31]

George Camel stressed the importance of disciplined spending and avoiding unnecessary expenses:

“Don't use the $800 for shopping or vacations; put it towards paying off your student loan.”
[18:55]

Conclusion:
The hosts recommended that Amanda focus on eliminating high-interest debts first, possibly by selling the depreciated vehicle to reduce her loan burden. They highlighted the importance of maintaining a strict budget and using debt repayment tools like EveryDollar to allocate resources effectively and achieve financial freedom.

---

7. Cryptocurrency Concerns and Trust in the US Dollar

Caller: Carolina from Burlington, Vermont | [86:54 - 95:00]

Issue:
Carolina expressed concerns about cryptocurrency potentially replacing the US dollar, influenced by social media narratives questioning the trustworthiness of fiat currency.

Advice Provided:
George Camel and Dr. Deloney addressed the misconceptions surrounding cryptocurrency and reaffirmed trust in the US dollar. Dr. Deloney explained:

“Cryptocurrency is too volatile, unregulated, and decentralized... the dollar is not going to crash anytime soon.”
[94:01]

George Camel reinforced the complexity and volatility of crypto investments compared to the stability of traditional currencies:

“This requires a complete overhaul of the global financial system... it’s not worth the juice.”
[89:28]

Conclusion:
They advised listeners to rely on proven and stable financial systems rather than speculative and unpredictable cryptocurrencies. Emphasizing trust and long-term stability, the hosts discouraged chasing sensational investment trends and focused on solid financial planning principles.

---

8. Handling Vehicle Debt and Extended Warranty Issues

Caller: Amy from Tampa, Florida | [95:00 - 102:00]

Issue:
Amy financed a used car with an extended warranty, which failed shortly after purchase, leaving her with a $30,000 loan for a vehicle now deemed worthless.

Advice Provided:
George Camel and Dr. Deloney criticized the excessive cost of the extended warranty and advised practical steps to mitigate the damage:

“If you sold it and bought a used Camry... you could clear your credit card debt without touching your money.”
[99:33]

Dr. Deloney recommended contacting the warranty company directly and exploring all repair options to avoid sinking deeper into debt:

“Do not trust any company to handle this... fight hard to get what you’re owed.”
[101:45]

Conclusion:
The hosts stressed the importance of scrutinizing extended warranties and understanding their limitations. They encouraged Amy to take proactive steps in resolving the warranty dispute, potentially selling the vehicle to stop accruing further debt, and focusing on rebuilding her financial stability through disciplined budgeting and debt repayment.

---

9. Tax Debt Settlement Strategies

Caller: Joshua from Phoenix, Arizona | [82:12 - 85:55]

Issue:
Joshua and his wife face $9,000 in tax debts amidst $20,000 in credit card, Canadian loans, and American student loans. They seek guidance on settling their tax obligations effectively.

Advice Provided:
Dr. Deloney strongly advised against attempting to settle tax debts for less than owed, emphasizing the necessity of full repayment to avoid legal complications:

“If you owe 9,000, I would write the check and be done with it.”
[84:00]

George Camel highlighted the pitfalls of quick-fix solutions often marketed online:

“These shortcuts are predatory and break my heart because we take so many calls.”
[85:21]

Conclusion:
Joshua was encouraged to prioritize paying off the full tax debt promptly to prevent further financial and legal repercussions. The hosts reiterated the importance of adhering to financial commitments and avoiding dubious debt relief schemes, advocating for straightforward repayment strategies to restore financial health.

---

10. Student Loans and Investment vs. Debt Repayment

Caller: Dan from Minneapolis | [116:35 - 126:22]

Issue:
Dan’s 19-year-old son, aiming for a master’s in structural engineering, proposes taking out a student loan to invest in a Roth account, believing he can earn interest to pay off the debt later.

Advice Provided:
George Camel and Dr. Deloney dismissed the notion of leveraging student loans for investments, warning of the inherent risks and potential to derail financial stability:

“This is a path he’s going down... it will spiral and add more risk and stress to his life.”
[119:54]

Dr. Deloney emphasized the principle of avoiding debt altogether, advocating for a debt-free approach to education financing:

“The principle is that you just decide early on that you're never going to touch debt. You’re going to be unbelievably wealthy and focused instead of losing sleep over arbitrage schemes.”
[124:00]

Conclusion:
They advised Dan to support his son in following a debt-free educational path, reinforcing the long-term benefits of avoiding student loans and focusing on financial discipline. Emphasizing the dangers of speculative investment strategies, the hosts recommended adhering to proven financial principles to ensure a stable and prosperous future.

---

Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, George Camel and Dr. John Deloney consistently underscored the importance of disciplined budgeting, debt elimination, and cautious financial planning. They discouraged reliance on quick-fix solutions and speculative investments, promoting sustainable financial practices rooted in trust, responsibility, and long-term stability. Notable quotes reflecting these themes include:

• Dr. John Deloney:

  "There are no magic shortcuts to financial freedom."
  [Throughout the episode]

• George Camel:

  "The most compassionate thing that could do is not hand somebody who struggles with meth for his whole life a quarter of a million dollars."
  [04:36]

• Dr. John Deloney:

  "Actions have consequences... you have to face the consequences and face the music."
  [17:02]

• George Camel:

  "Choose freedom. It’s the Fourth of July, for God's sakes."
  [75:34]

This comprehensive approach ensures listeners gain valuable insights into managing diverse financial challenges, reinforcing the principle that lasting financial freedom is achieved through consistent, informed, and responsible actions rather than seeking elusive shortcuts.

Transcript

[George Camel]

Foreign.

[Dr. John Deloney]

To you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel here with my good friend Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-82552. Sarah is in Norfolk, Virginia. Coming up first, what's going on? Sarah?

[Caller]

Hi. My husband and I have been a Dave Ramsey family for quite a while. We're on baby step seven.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Awesome.

[Caller]

And so, yes, it's wonderful. But that means that we're trying to be helpful to family members who need help with advice. And one of them is my dad. I have two siblings. One of them is an addict pretty much his whole life. And he's. My father is really struggling with how to handle inheritance because he really is feeling like anything he were to put in his hands could really be basically signing his death certificate. So what kind of thoughts do you have or advice or what have you shared with other people regarding something like this?

[George Camel]

What type of addiction is he struggling with? It doesn't really matter, but I'm interested.

[Caller]

It's been mostly mess, to my knowledge. He's been in and out of prison and rehab. He's in jail right now. And, you know, we are praying for redemption, but he doesn't seem to be able to hold it together very long. And although, you know, maybe we would have our miracle and see complete change, but we kind of have to plan on that not happening.

[George Camel]

How much money are we talking about?

[Caller]

My dad's net worth is probably in the like 7, 800,000 range.

[George Camel]

So be a couple hundred grand when it's all said and done.

[Caller]

Right?

[George Camel]

Plus a house or whatever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, well, I'll tell you what Dave Ramsey would do and what he would say. And he would say, you're not in the inheritance if you're an addict because of the reasons you just mentioned.

[George Camel]

It'll kill. It'll kill your brother.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so there's nothing that doesn't make your dad a bad person. This is not how he wanted it to go down. It's not of his choosing. Your sibling chose to not be a part of this family and this inheritance due to their behavior, even if it was, you know, whatever the addiction is. And so I would make it clear to your dad that giving this money to the sibling is a bad choice, and I would leave them out of it unless there is some clear redemption later on down the road. And then we can change it. So just know this is not like a forever thing. We all have hope that things can change, but for now, he's not going to be in it. He's not in the will.

[George Camel]

And I think for that, I think for that very reason, because it'll kill him. Right. And so in this, and it sounds.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Strange to punish them, it's actually the.

[George Camel]

Most compassionate thing that could do is not hand somebody who struggles with meth for his whole life a quarter of a million dollars. Right. If it was my kid and I was in this exact same situation and my daughter, I'm looking to split my estate, I would prob, probably put a chunk of money either in some sort of trust that was specifically for rehabilitation that would, I would designate to be used at your discretion, you being one of the kids, or probably. I wouldn't. You know what? As I'm thinking about that, I wouldn't put you in that situation because I don't want to make you a target of your brother. Right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so I would designate in a trust and have the trustee say, if and when you're interested in rehabilitation, there's this money in this. And. But it will go directly because the custodian of that trust would write a check to the rehab place.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It'll never touch your siblings.

[Caller]

Right, Right. Yeah. That was no concern for my dad. You know, he's wanting me to be executor and power of attorney, but saying I can't put you in that position because your brother will be on your doorstep.

[George Camel]

You know, and I think that's very wise. I. My house is the exact same way. I actually asked a friend who tells people no for a living. He's the executor of my will. A guy, he's basically a brother. I've known him for 35 plus years. And that's simply so that my family will have the privilege of just being able to be sad and not have.

[Dr. John Deloney]

To then go to war with a drama prevention tool.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Now, so you're saying then pick an individual outside of the family, a trusted.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Family member, or you could even use a corporate trustee.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, they're, they're out there. These are services that provide these trustees that can manage this. And so the key is you just don't want it to be one of the siblings that's holding the pot of gold.

[George Camel]

Unless you don't care. Right. If you're like, dude, I'm, I could care less, I'm happy to tell brother no. And I'll put this money in a, in a Vanguard account or A high yield savings account. And when he's ready, it'll be there. And if he's not, then at date X it triggers and then it goes into my kids college fund or what? However you want to do it.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And your dad can figure that out. Most siblings I would recommend don't. You don't want to put each other against each other.

[Caller]

Right, Right, right. Yeah, that's definitely a concern. I mean, I feel like I could say no, but I just feel like, you know, I mean, he's in jail for a reason, so there. Yeah, there would be ramifications, I imagine.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How old is your dad?

[Caller]

He is in his early 70s. All of my brothers and I are in our 40s.

[George Camel]

One thing, if you haven't already, one thing of writing this will out is a. I don't really know how to say this without son and dorky. So I'm just gonna say it and interpret it how you will. Okay. But.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

This is one of those moments when your dad has to understand the gravity of his son's situation.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And understand, rightly or wrongly, that somewhere down the road your dad feels like he played a role in this. If I had done this differently, if I hadn't have been like this, if I had changed that. And maybe that story is true, maybe it's not. Right. But every parent has that. That demon whispering in their ear. And so this is a painful process for him. And if nothing else, if you can tell your dad, hey, I know this is hard. And the most compassionate thing you can do for your son is to not give him this money right now. And. And that will be a gift to him, to your dad.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think this is why he's struggling with making the call. I think he knows what he needs to do, but he's really been, you know, back and forth with me on. On what it should be.

[George Camel]

But if you. If you come forward and say, I'm releasing you dad because he may feel like he has to make you the executor. Right. I kind of want to do that to her too. Hey, dad, like, for whatever it's worth, I don't want this role. I. I think you should use your friend Bill or this service that I looked up online and they're great and they'll do it for us. And that way I don't have to go to war with my brother. And I think it will. I think it'll be cruel if you give my brother $250,000 because it'll kill him.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And that might free your dad.

[Caller]

Yeah, I agree. I think there is something that's preventing him from just moving forward.

[George Camel]

Yeah, it's probably a whole bunch of shame that your brother's struggles are because your dad did something wrong. Most dads feel that way.

[Caller]

Yeah, I imagine.

[George Camel]

Yeah, moms, too. But it's your dad. Case, where's your mom in this picture?

[Caller]

She's passed away already.

[George Camel]

Okay. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you working with an estate attorney already?

[Caller]

He has spoken just briefly with somebody, and I feel like they have kind of said, well, whatever you want to do kind of thing. And so he's. Nobody is really, like, firmly guiding him on what the options truly are. So I feel like, you know, he's come to me several times and we've talked about it, and, you know, I'm just kind of like, whatever you feel like you want to do, dad. But I do think that if he had maybe some more clear direction, like the trustees that you guys were talking about, that might be.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because you can have two. There's the executor of the will, but then if there's a trust, there can be a trustee of the trust. So you might be able to split these up. And that's why I encourage you to talk to an attorney and just tell him straight up, hey, we need guidance here. Tell us what you think is in the best interest of our family, but.

[George Camel]

Some of the guidance that you give him directly. Dad, here's what I would love to see you do. Might just free your old man. Finally. Hey, this is Dr. John Deloney for Churchill Mortgage. Good friends. I have bought multiple homes with Churchill Mortgage because they always shoot straight with me. They tell me the truth. So let me shoot straight with you. When you're getting ready to buy a home, the first step is not house hunting. It's making a plan. Don't settle for tapping a button and just talking to a bot. I want to encourage you to sit down with a guide you can trust. My friends at Churchill Mortgage, they actually see you. They. They actually care about you, and they'll listen and learn your goals. And most importantly, they will tell you the truth. Churchill has loan experts who focus on you and your unique situation. So your journey ends with a home that's a blessing, not a burden. Churchill Mortgage can even help you become a certified home buyer so that when the time is right and you find the right house, you're ready to make your move. I know the housing market is tough right now. I know. But you probably have more options than you think. Churchill would love to help you figure them out, and they'll do it with honesty and integrity. Learn more@churchill mortgage.com this is a paid.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org Equal Housing Lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite.

[George Camel]

100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don is with us up next in St. Louis. What's going on, Don?

[Caller]

Hi. I have a question. I am divorced and my ex husband has asked me to give up the spousal support alimony that he is supposed to pay. And I'm struggling with what the right decision is because I have some guilt over the fact I had an affair at the end of our marriage. And I really just want to do the right thing.

[George Camel]

Did. Is your affair the reason y' all got divorced?

[Caller]

No.

[George Camel]

Why'd you get divorced?

[Caller]

Because I was at the end of my rope. I was done trying. I was done going to counseling over and over and begging for things to change, and they wouldn't.

[George Camel]

So there was a whole context. So why is he calling you now and asking you to give up spousal support?

[Caller]

Because he didn't want it from the beginning. And when I filed the paperwork, I requested it and he never responded. So the judge gave me everything I asked for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And why didn't he respond?

[Caller]

I don't know why he didn't respond. He was giving.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That would have been the time to make my opinion heard is in the courtroom. And the judge decreed, this is fair, right? I mean, they said, hey, this is what you want. We think this is fair. It was the judge's call.

[George Camel]

Well, sometimes that fairness comes with a penalty like, oh, if you're not even going to respond, then I'm going to give her everything. Which is a common. It's like a response slash penalty, right?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah. He was given a notice when he received the paperwork that he had the 120 days to respond or a judgment could be placed against him. But he didn't respond. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much are you getting every month?

[Caller]

Well, I haven't gotten anything. It's been almost two years and he hasn't paid anything. But now the state's coming after him and he's supposed to pay me $800 a month.

[George Camel]

So does he owe you two years back pay plus next month?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's like 23 months at this point. Okay. That and the child support.

[George Camel]

So he sounds like he has a habit of just thinking things will go away.

[Caller]

Wow, you really hit the nail on the head with that. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Why do you feel guilty like you Did a thing and it violated your conscience. I would say don't have an affair. You had one, right? We all know that. Let's move past that.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Tell me about why you're calling. Because it can't just be because of that. You feel sorry for this guy. Do you not need this money? And it's more for the principle of the thing. Like, tell me why you're really calling.

[Caller]

Well, I do need the money. I don't need it for the entirety of my life, which is pretty much what the divorce decree says. But, I mean, I'm in a financial hardship. He makes, like, almost three times as much as I do. So, yeah, I do need the money. But I also had. I mean, in the long run, like, I feel guilty taking it. I feel like if I hadn't had an affair, I wouldn't feel guilty taking it. Like I owe him something because of that.

[George Camel]

I think it's deeper than that. I could be wrong. I only have a few minutes to talk to you, but my guess is you've always been a peacekeeper, and you've always been the person trying to make sure everybody else is okay, and you messed up. And underneath all that, it's like, I'm not worth this money either.

[Caller]

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[George Camel]

So do you have a. And here's the thing. Like, there's an economic reality. Do you have kids?

[Caller]

We do.

[George Camel]

Okay, what's the. Is this. Is the child support on top of alimony?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Is he paying that?

[Caller]

No.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I would have stopped feeling bad a long time ago.

[George Camel]

Yeah. The. The first words that just came into my mind was, then burn him to the ground. And I know that's not helpful, and that's not why I get paid to do my show, because usually I get paid to be more thoughtful, but I have little to no regard for grown men who don't take care of their kids. And so this is a guy who is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This is not vengeful toward the ex. This is. Now, I've given up on my kids.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Well. And in fairness, we split them 50. 50.

[George Camel]

Doesn't matter.

[Caller]

Of them when he has them.

[George Camel]

Well. Well, like, high five. Right. But this is a guy that serially thinks the rules don't apply, and it doesn't matter. I'm just gonna go do what I'm gonna do. You lived with that forever. The judge is experiencing that. And now the government has to come regulate because he won't take care of his business. And he's probably got outpaid, like, unpaid parking tickets and he's probably the guy that rolls through the toll booth and is like, it's cool, man. And parks in the handicap parking spot. And he gets mad when he gets a tick like that. Just. Guy just gets under my skin because the rules don't app. And here's the deal. If I were you, and I have a job and I am splitting custody 50. 50. This is just me and this. You can take this for what you would. I would, over time, feel weird about continuing to get a check. I would want to become financially independent. And if in this season I'm not there yet, then I would not have heartache about using this piece of. This small piece of money, 800 bucks, as a bridge to get me to economic independence. That would be my goal. But that's not a moral issue. That's not a character issue. The judge has ruled with. The judge ruled. That would just be me looking me in the mirror.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have any debt, Don?

[Caller]

I have one debt, and that is my student loan. And it's a hundred thousand dollars.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That'll do. That's the only debt you need at that point.

[George Camel]

What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I work in law enforcement.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you don't make very much money.

[Caller]

No, I do not.

[George Camel]

No. Okay.

[Caller]

And I. And I never will.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Caller]

But I feel like my job has purpose, so I'm okay with that.

[George Camel]

Extraordinary purpose and embarrassingly underpaid for the. The amount of purpose it has as a taxpayer watching all these things fly across the news channels the last few months, I think of the teachers and the police officers in my local community and the firefighters, and I just. It's disgusting to me, but it is what it is. That's not going to be solved on this call. And I'm in a bad mood now because that guy's not paying child support.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You made John mad.

[George Camel]

Golly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Actions have consequences. Your action of having the affair, that has consequences. You feel terrible about it. There's a lot of regret and guilt there that you're gonna have to work through. That might take some counseling and therapy. And his actions also have consequen. His just looks like the courts and sheriffs at his door demanding that he pay or they'll garnish his wages or whatever comes next. And so we all have to face the consequences and face the music. And so my response to him would be like, this is what the judge decreed. We need this money to take care of my obligations and the kids. This is what you agreed to. And by him not voting, he voted.

[George Camel]

That's right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In that 120 day period where he didn't respond, he cast his vote and said, do what you want. And so he has to live with the consequences of that. Now, whether that's forever, I don't know. But right now you sure could use some money to pay off 100 grand in debt.

[Caller]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I wouldn't feel guilty about taking the money. I would try to compartmentalize this and say I feel guilty about the affair. I'm not going to feel guilty about supporting my family and my kids and my situation.

[George Camel]

And a lot of the guilt can be used as fuel. If you have a plan, if you get $800 as part of a payment every month or you're going to get a lump sum of what, what's 23 times $18,400, John? If you get a check for 18,400 bucks and you don't send a hundred percent of that to your student loan and you go shopping with it or you're on vacation with it, then that will you be participating in this out of control, guilty, mushy, non intentional feeling that you have. Right. But if you have a. Every month as $800 comes in and I'm putting every penny I can on top of that, 800 bucks to go into pay off this stupid student loan, there will be some intentionality to it. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yes, absolutely.

[George Camel]

So I think some of that's just you making a deal with yourself that I'm going to keep my promises to myself and coming up with a really good plan. If you'll hang on the line, we're gonna hook you up with every dollar. It's a premium. It's, it's the budgeting app of the millennia. It's awesome. But I want you to use that. But I want you to really, really use it and see where this 800 bucks isn't going to go to just like going out or whatever. It's going to go to actually putting your, the pedal to the floor. And maybe you get your student loan paid off and you've got a small raise and you get promoted and you can say, dude, I don't want your money anymore. Maybe we get there. But I love the idea of you being really hyper intentional that when that money comes in, I'm going to use it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hang online, Don. We'll get you the EveryDollar Premium app. Wishing you the best as you begin building for the future and hopefully quit dwelling on the past. This is the Ramsey Show. Okay, Rachel, the Internet officially Knows too much about all of us.

[Caller]

So much, George. I mean our names, our addresses, even our relatives names. And what's crazy is even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't like that. And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online. Now it's over 600. It is doubled in a year.

[Caller]

Guys, that is so concerning. Because that info then can be used in phishing, scams, impersonation, and even harassment. That's why George and I both use and love Delete Me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, Delete Me scrubs your personal info from hundreds of these data broker sites. Not just once, but all year long. And there's real privacy experts behind the scenes doing this, not bots. So this is digital hygiene. We all need.

[Caller]

We all need it. And then they will send you a detailed report showing exactly where they found your data and what they removed. And you can even request custom removals if you have something specific you want them to look out for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Exactly. And this is not being paranoid. This is staying protected. And so far, Delete Me has removed my info from 240listings and saved me 94 hours of time it would have taken me to do it.

[Caller]

I love it. And you guys, in a world where strangers can google your grandma and get enough info to scam her in just two clicks, Delete Me gives you peace of mind.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. So go to joindeleteme.com Ramsey for 20% off. And that discount brings their annual plans down to about nine bucks a month. So go check it out. Joindeleteme.com Ramsey if you're enjoying the Ramsey show or if you ever have, do us a quick favor. Hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, hit the share button. You guys are the best marketing plan we have. And it helps get the word out to more people so that we can make more impact. Appreciate you guys doing that. Jill is in D.C. up next. Jill, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a really big fan.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Appreciate that.

[Caller]

So I got approached, my mother in law approached my husband and I recently about, she was talking about basically getting a debt consolidation loan. So that kind of led us into talking to her about her financial situation and learned that she has about $62,000 worth of debt. My mom, my mother in law, she works part time and she also receives Social Security and a very, very small pension. So she doesn't make a tremendous amount of money. And so she was asking for some advice and I Just want to make sure I'm giving her the right advice because her margin and her budget is large. In fact she, her minimum payments equal more than what her margin is. So basically the debt snowball. I just want to make sure, you know, I told her that she should probably just hold off on paying her minimum payments on most if not all of her debt and just tackle one debt at a time. I just kind of want to know what your guys input or insight would be.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what are her total bills, costs? All of her expenses plus the minimum payments every, every month.

[Caller]

So her, her total bills so that for her debts themselves they're about 1450amonth.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And that doesn't include her. Is she living on her own, is she renting?

[Caller]

She actually owned her home. She bought the home cash. So she really doesn't have a whole lot of like household monthly bills outside of her debts.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so it's food, insurance, taxes, things like that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And how much is she making total from her part time work, Social Security, pension.

[Caller]

So on a low month it's about 3100. That's just. I kind of asked her like what her lowest paycheck would be every two weeks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's her take home pay.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what kind of Debt is the 62,000.

[Caller]

So when she purchased this home she, I feel bad. She moved closer to be near my husband and I and she bought a home cash, but a lot. The home needed a whole lot of renovations and I think she, I think she got in over her head. So a few of the debts are for like windows, siding, insulation to the home itself. And then of course there's, there's quite a few credit cards.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much is the house worth?

[Caller]

She purchased it a couple years ago for about 140. 140,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. I'm assuming with the renovations and some time. It's appreciated.

[Caller]

I haven't done any research on the, on what it's worth now but I'm sure it's appreciated. I hope it has. Especially with the work that's been done. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And is she able to work more?

[Caller]

She's been trying actually but she is, I mean she's like 71, 72 years old. So she is trying to get more hours though. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I've been accused of telling the elderly to go back to work so I'm not going to encourage her to do that.

[George Camel]

I will.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I do think the only way out of this is either here's the options that I see. If she doesn't make minimum payments, it's going to go to collections and people will start coming after her. It's going to destroy her financial world and cause a lot of stress and harm. So I would encourage her, cover her bills first. Food, utilities, housing, transportation. Beyond that, keep up with minimum payments, and if she can put any extra, then go for it. But it doesn't sound like she's going to have that unless she works more. The other option I see is she sells this home and downsizes to a different home in cash and uses the profits to pay off her debts.

[Caller]

Oh.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because that'll free up 1450.

[Caller]

Of course. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now, I don't know what you can find in the area that's. You know, if she can sell it for 200 and she nets 180, she pays off her debt, that leaves her with 120. I don't know where that leaves her.

[Caller]

As far as a whole other topic. Just because I don't think she would be willing to do that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And why is that?

[Caller]

Well, she purchased a home to be near us and.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is there a condo?

[George Camel]

She's about to be real near y' all. Like, in your back bedroom.

[Caller]

No, believe me, we've talked about that as well, and that's not.

[George Camel]

I know, I know, but I want you to, like, hear. Hear what George is saying, Jill. Like, every single month she's alive, she's. She's getting further behind. So she. It's. It's not about love, and it's not about care and grandkids. It's a math problem.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's either you work full time, maybe even doing a better job, or you sell the house and downsize. That's the hard conversation you're about to have.

[George Camel]

She literally doesn't have enough money every month to pay her bills.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or she lets it all go to collections. Collections comes after her. They sue her, and then one day she passes away and they write it off. Right. That's not. That's not how I want to go personally.

[Caller]

No, of course not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I want to go with dignity and with. God.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Does she have any sort of retirement at all?

[Caller]

No.

[George Camel]

So y' all. Y' all are going to be taking care of her anyway, right?

[Caller]

Well, I mean, that is why. Another reason why she moved closer, I think, to us is because I think she. You know, my husband is probably the. The best person in our family who could possibly. My husband and I, obviously.

[George Camel]

But sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How are you guys doing financially?

[Caller]

We're. We're really good. I mean, we're on, you know, baby steps. 4, 5, and 6. So we're working towards paying our home off. Amazing. So, yeah, I mean, we've made a lot of financial mistakes in the past, but we found you guys about a year ago and it really does change our outlook. So.

[George Camel]

Welcome to the cult, dude. Welcome to the cult. It's awesome.

[Caller]

No, I truly appreciate it. We've had a lot of conversations between he and I about her moving in. And although we are willing, I think she. She's gonna struggle with that. She owns animals. She has a lot of stuff she's on.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What, like, that feels expensive for a broke person.

[Caller]

Yep, I know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How many animals are we talking? Is this like Noah's ark? What does she have back there? Please don't tell me there's a horse.

[Caller]

Or three dogs in. Four lizards.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow. So the dogs are eating good and she's barely getting by.

[Caller]

I mean, no, yeah, I mean, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I hope the dogs are eating. I hope they're well taken care of.

[Caller]

Be fair, she didn't come from a whole lot. She worked minimum wage jobs her entire life. You know, raised three kids on her own. Like, she, this is kind of the, you know, she, this is what she knows. And so we're trying to help her navigate a better way, but I think.

[George Camel]

The best thing you can do, and this goes almost opposite to what I normally tell people because I almost always say, hey, money, to quote Jade Warshaw, is money's not a math problem, it's a psychology problem. I think the biggest breakthrough here for your mother in law is going to be, hey, we have a. We have a big math problem that we can't solve. And it's easy to say, well, I can't sell those dogs. Of course you can't sell dogs. Like, I'm not getting rid of that or I'm not doing this. And it's literally saying, hey, this, this ends and it ends badly. It ends with you getting sued by a whole bunch of people. It ends with people coming after your car, after your house, after your dogs, after your lizard. It's like it, it. They will harass you till the end of time. And at the end of the day, you end up living with us anyway because you have no retirement at all. None. And so we're going to get there eventually. Right? Because there's not even, I mean, there's not even any, any money to move her into a home or anything. Right. Does she, does she have Social Security?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, can she get a golden girl situation? Get a roommate? She's got a big old house to herself.

[Caller]

It's it's not big enough.

[George Camel]

It doesn't sound big.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, big enough that it's two bedrooms.

[George Camel]

Her dogs are real dogs, not small like your dogs.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They don't take up a whole bedroom. Yeah, I'm guessing she would be unwilling to get a roommate.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, she's not willing to give up the animals to come stay with us, so I doubt she would be.

[George Camel]

The only thing I can suggest is sitting down and saying, we have a math problem here and we need your input not on how you feel about stuff, but how you want to solve this. Because this is all going to go away. And since it's going to go away, yeah, we want to be in the driver's seat of this new direction, but a new direction is going to be.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Forced upon us and they're all going to be hard choices. But as my friend Dr. John Deloney would say, you got to choose reality. I want her to keep the house and the dogs and have a farm. Have the cake and eat it, too. But that's not the reality we find ourselves in when we're $62,000 in debt at 71 on essentially a fixed income. Wishing you guys the best. Jill, good luck with the conversation. This is the Ramsay show.

[Caller]

Foreign. Okay, you guys remember the four walls of a budget. Food, utilities, shelter, and transportation. Right now, I want to focus on food because inflation is driving up the cost of groceries and we're all feeling it. But Aldi shoppers can save up to 36% on an average shopping trip, which adds up to be about $4,000 a year for a family of four. $4,000. Aldi has what you need at prices that won't bust your budget. From bread and milk to organic produce, fresh meat, and affordable must haves. So stop paying more and start shopping smarter at Aldi, where you'll save with the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you today at Aldi us. That's a L D. I dot us.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, feeling like you can't get ahead, feeling like money's tight, at the end of every month, you gotta join one of our free everydollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities, myself included. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find $9,000 of margin using everydollar so that you can get out of debt and start building wealth. Plus, you can ask us Any question during the live Q and A? Don't miss it. Sign up for [e-mail] webinar Allie joins us up next in Grand Rapids. How can we help today? Ali?

[Caller]

Hi there you guys. Thanks so much for taking my call.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure.

[Caller]

So my question today is my husband works full time 40 hours a week. I work part time about 16 hours a week because I really value staying home as much as I can with our three babies. I have a six year old, four year old and almost one year old. My question today is I have much higher earning potential, but I really struggle with the idea of working full time and not being more home with my kids. We do have some debt that we'd like to pay off. So my husband and I are more strongly considering this switch. But just wondering your thoughts.

[George Camel]

How much debt?

[Caller]

$32,000. It's only student loans and of course they're for my student loans that I used to get to where I am today.

[George Camel]

What's your part time job?

[Caller]

I work part time as a nurse practitioner.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So that's the earning potential.

[George Camel]

You could flip a switch tomorrow, huh?

[Caller]

I could just switch, be a full time nurse practitioner and make six figures.

[George Camel]

So often whenever a couple calls or somebody in a partnership calls and says, we are trying to decide between this or this, I always want to challenge you to throw three or four ideas on the table just to see because it ends up it's easy to get boxed in and you end up boxing yourself in a situation and that usually leads to some frustration and resentment because he's sitting there going to work 40 hours a week saying, dude, we could be out of this debt if she would just get off her butt and, and you would be at work going, I can't believe my stupid husband doesn't make any money. And because you, because it's an either or, instead of saying something like, hey, what would happen if you flipped a switch for six months and just burned a hole through everything, paid all this stuff off and cleared and then flip the switch back off?

[Caller]

Sure. Okay.

[George Camel]

I'm saying it's just option 3 or option 4 is fill in the blank or option 5 is fill in the blank.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Are you guys open to. Let's explore all the options here. Would you guys be open to both working full time and having the kids in daycare for a period of time?

[Caller]

I mean, yeah, I guess that's so hard for me because I had this vision, right. For how I wanted to raise my kids. And so it's always hard when it kind of deviates. But we also value having financial freedom. Freedom. So I guess that's a good point. You know, we could just both work full time. We are trying to homeschool, which of course is, you know, my, my oldest goes to a hybrid program, so he goes two days a week. So then, you know, it does require someone to be home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would just explore all the options and look at the math of it and go, listen, we could be debt free in four months if we did this daycare with two full time or dad stays home full time. And now you have, you go full time. And that changes the equation too. Less income, but you still get to accomplish your vision. So there's a lot of compromises here that can still accomplish your family's vision. And remember, none of this is forever.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I always. The thing I see couples be really successful at is I always like to think in terms of grad school. Everything is for a season. And if you have a deadline, like we want to have no debt and $50,000 in the bank. Bank what must be true for us to get that. And then we will all exhale and then figure out, you know what, them being in childcare or them being in a local public school wasn't as bad as we thought. We quit being on YouTube so much because we were working and it turned out it wasn't that bad. Or we hate every single second of this. And the moment we cross that fifty thousand dollar thing, your husband quits his job or whatever the thing is. But if you do it aimlessly, it's real easy to be like, oh, this is the rest of my life. And then you, you end up burned out. But having some like a very clear, let's do a sprint. I'm gonna flip this switch. I'm gonna work Saturdays and Sundays. Which means you're not golfing either, honey. And you're staying at home. And we are gonna hammer this thing. Four months, we owe nobody anything. We are free. And then we will reassess.

[Caller]

Sure. Okay. No, that makes sense. Do you find that generally it's pretty easy to flip, like flip the switch, like for folks.

[George Camel]

Not for, not for professional women. No. It's a nightmare.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

You will feel like if you are, if you are searching for this to quote, unquote feel right. It is a nightmare. And there is billions and billions of dollar industries that are designed to prey on that insecurity.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you're gonna get judgment either way.

[George Camel]

You will get.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I can't believe you're working full time, not home with Your kids. I can't believe you. You're an NP and you're not working full time and you're home with them, the kid. Either way, you're gonna get it from the people you love the most.

[George Camel]

Probably. I can't believe you have your husband's staying at home. I can't believe you just dropped those kids off in daycare. I can't believe all those women went before you to make pave the way. And you. You. You can't win. Which means the only way is to don't play that game.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

And you and your husband decide.

[Caller]

Family.

[George Camel]

Yeah. What's best for our family. And you may have to grieve some of those pictures temporarily. I wanted it to look like this. It doesn't. Or right this second, it doesn't. But next year it will. Here's what it's kind of like. This is a trite example, and I'm going to get some hate on the Internet, and that's fine. It's like finding. Going, like, on a weekend trip to New York City and finding an amazing coat. And it's June. Like, I can't put this on for six months, but it's still a great coat. So it may be that I can't homeschool my kids and work part time and teach the science class in the homeschool cohort because I've got a graduate degree inside. I can't do that until next year. But it doesn't mean it's not a great dream, it's not a great coat, or. I don't want to say out loud. I really wanted to homeschool all my kids and stay at home, but, dude, I miss the adrenaline rush of being in the hospital. I miss it so much. And people tell me that means I don't love my kids very much, and that's not true. And I would tell you your kids will benefit from a mom who feels whole and fulfilled and healthy and well, than an exhausted mom who hates the life that she has imagined for herself that she's trying to grind her claws through. Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What is your current household income?

[Caller]

Currently we bring home about 80k.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And based on that, how much longer will it take to pay off this 32k of debt?

[Caller]

Well, we're kind of grinding it out right now. And based on our being more aggressive, we'll be able to get. Get all of our debts. Well, probably in the next three to five years, depending on. On some things, but about three to five years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. I can tell you right now that plan sucks. In my book.

[George Camel]

Yeah. You're gonna hate your life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Five years of paying off debt when you two are very capable. I think we can do better. So I would look at. What is the two year version of this look like?

[George Camel]

No, what's the one year version?

[Dr. John Deloney]

18 month. If you're. If you can go full time NP and clean this up in less than a year. Think about it. You just gained four years of your life back of this debt payoff sacrifice. I'd rather see you sacrifice for a year versus five.

[George Camel]

And I'm going to make. Can I say something awful?

[Caller]

Sure.

[George Camel]

Because I know you're now officially a part of the industrial mom guilt complex where everyone's just telling you things and it's just, it's like a walking around with a wheelbarrow full of guilt. But what George just said is powerful. But that also means your kids get four more years with non anxious, emotionally regulated parents. Parents sure that somebody else is not telling y' all what y' all are going to do with your family because of choices y' all made 15 years ago, 10 years ago to go to this college or buy this car or whatever. It's an opportunity to give your kids regulated parents. Which is in this current world is. Dude, that's the currency, I think.

[Caller]

Yeah. Okay, so good.

[George Camel]

So feel guilty about that.

[Caller]

I do. I do have concerns that I would be more anxious in a full time role like because of the stress of what it is.

[George Camel]

You only have hard choices about that. You only have hard choices.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

Every choice you make is a hard one. So make the hard choice that's going to get you where you want to be as fast as possible.

[Caller]

Sure. No, that makes sense.

[George Camel]

And if every day you're driving to work and you're having to reapply your mascara because you hate being away from your kids, you will never borrow money again.

[Caller]

That's very true.

[George Camel]

Right?

[Caller]

That's very true.

[George Camel]

And we'll grind it out and there's a, there's a price to pay for. We made these decisions back in the day or I made these things or he did or whatever. And we're having to pay for them right now at the expense of our dream. But man, we're gonna get this thing done as fast as possible. I want y' all to come up with a nine month plan because I think y' all could do that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I like the aggression, John. That's about 3500 bucks a month. We can find that margin. This thing's over before we know it.

[George Camel]

Done.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I've been Doing this show for over 30 years.

[Caller]

And some of the saddest calls I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[Caller]

Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible air. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took. Took a question of a lady, and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance. And. And I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right. If, if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out, how am I going to afford child care? How do I. How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like, and. And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through, how am I going to pay. Pay my bills? How about next week? Yeah. In the middle of all that grief, like, it's just. It is. It's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like, so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re upping it because I'm like, I just want it there. Like, there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies, it doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

[Caller]

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

[Caller]

The cost of stinking pizza there really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So we've used Zander for all of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282.

[Caller]

Or go to Zander.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Live from the Ramsey Network. This is the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm here with the host of the Dr. John DeLoney Show. Dr. John DeLoney, my co host, host is with me. The number to call is 3882-55225. And Lori joins us in Seattle, Washington. Up next. What's going on, Lori?

[Caller]

Oh, long story short, 72 years old, was married and divorced now for several years. We had a million five in the account. Now I'm living on Social Security.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Whoa.

[George Camel]

What happened?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let's make the story a little longer.

[George Camel]

Yeah, what happened?

[Caller]

Yeah, long story short, he filed for divorce before me. There was domestic violence involved. Anyway, he filed. I went to get money from my attorney, and I found out the bank accounts, all of them have like a thousand or two thousand dollars.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What did he do with the money? I don't think the courts look kindly at people just sweeping the accounts in the middle of a divorce.

[Caller]

We'll never know because when. When he filed first, everything was frozen and it looked like we had no money. I had to borrow money from friends and my church to. To get an attorney.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Where is he?

[Caller]

We went to court. Oh, he's still living in the house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I assume with all the money.

[Caller]

Probably.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What did the judge say? Or the attorneys?

[Caller]

The attorneys. He hired a group of attorneys. I had one probably stinky attorney. Basically, the judge asked where the money was. He said he must have gambled it away or lost it in the stock market.

[George Camel]

Laura, that doesn't make.

[Caller]

I know.

[George Camel]

I've been around the legal profession a long time. That doesn't. I mean, maybe that's a wild thing for him to say. And the judge would be like, all right, well, cool.

[Caller]

Yeah. Nothing was said, Nothing. The only thing the judge found when she went through his things. And the only saving grace for me was he had a life insurance policy that he had taken out during our marriage for $2,200,000. So I got half of that.

[George Camel]

What about your home? Did you have to buy you out of your house?

[Caller]

No, it was his home before we were married. So being we were married less than 10 years, it was his whole soul and separate property.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let's.

[Caller]

Let's do that.

[George Camel]

Let's do this. Let's stop talking about him. What's your situation right now? Because he's gone. He. Y' all are divorced. He's over. Judge hit the gallon.

[Caller]

I am now living in a mobile home. I've got about $8,000 between 8 and $10,000 in savings right now. My monthly cost for living and rent and everything is approximately. Hold on. Here is, let me see, about 13,500 that I have to pay every month.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wait, like 13,000?

[Caller]

No, 13.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Scared me.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That makes me feel a lot better. And how much debt do you have?

[Caller]

I have about $8,500 in credit cards, which I've never had before.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What else?

[Caller]

I'm. That's it. Everything else is paid for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you could pay off the credit cards today and have a little bit of money left over for a little starter emergency fund and begin to rebuild.

[Caller]

How can I do that? I mean, if I. If I pay everything that I have in cash, I'll have nothing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You told me you have 10,000 in savings.

[Caller]

Well, approximately. Then that's before I pay my bills. After bills get paid.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, savings is different from checking. So have enough in checking to cover your next month.

[Caller]

Now, this checking. No, I have that in checking. I have nothing in savings right now, actually.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

And savings.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what's your next paycheck and how much will that be?

[Caller]

I don't work. I just need to. Yeah, it's 2100, so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

2100. Your Social Security covers all of your bills, at least? Yes, with a little bit left over.

[Caller]

600 left? Yeah, 600 left for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So here's what I'm advocating for you to do. Pay off your credit cards today. Your next Social Security check will cover your bills. And then with that extra 600 bucks, throw that into a savings account every single month and don't touch it. And cut up the credit cards and stick to using a debit card and cash. And that way you'll never be able to go into debt again, even if you wanted to.

[Caller]

I know, but things like being in the mobile home, I had to. There was a major leak. The toilets broke. I had to get new toilets.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Did you fix all that?

[Caller]

The furnace? As of now, yes. And there's more work to be done on this place. It's just the whole underbelly needs.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, the goal is to get out of this mobile home situation. This is not a good situation. You're not living with dignity. You're not living a quality life.

[George Camel]

So do you have any kids or family or anything?

[Caller]

I have no family. I have family, but they don't have anything to do with me. No?

[George Camel]

Why not?

[Caller]

I'm guessing it's because I gave my life to the Lord and I'm on that, on their political spectrum. And that's been for last 15 years. So it's nothing new.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you have no friends.

[George Camel]

So 15 years ago, you became a Christian and don't vote the same way they did, and they won't speak to you and they're going to let their mom die in school.

[Caller]

Not had. Heard. Nope. Haven't heard a word from them. So I don't even know if they're still alive.

[George Camel]

Have they heard a word from you?

[Caller]

Yes, I've left messages. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What happened to this life insurance policy?

[Caller]

It got split. He got 100,000, I got 100,000. Then I had to pay him because I bought a car during our marriage. I paid cash for it. I had to pay him $30,000 for that car.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's the car worth now?

[Caller]

Oh, maybe 20,000.

[George Camel]

Maybe I would sell that car tomorrow.

[Caller]

Yeah, but pay for.

[George Camel]

I know you're down.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you sold it for 20 and got a $10,000 car, a $12,000 car, you could clear your credit card debt without even touching your money right now.

[George Camel]

Lori, this is me and George, and.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You make 24,000 a year. You don't need to be driving a $20,000 car.

[George Camel]

We're just trying to love you. You are scary. Scary, on the edge, broke.

[Caller]

Oh, I know, but I'm saying I don't owe anything on the car. It's been well maintained a car.

[George Camel]

But here's what that means. That means if you sold it and bought a used Camry that's not nice, but will get you to where you need to go for the next 20 years of your life. Then you can do all the repairs, you could pay off all of your debts, and you could have five or six thousand dollars in a savings account. And if you value the car that's being well maintained in your gravel driveway in front of your falling apart trailer, more than that sort of piece, we can't help you. But this is.

[Caller]

I realize that too, but where am I going to move to? Because rents, as you know, are like where I am. Like two twenty one hundred dollars for a one bedroom apartment.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You might need to get a roommate or two.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I mean, you're in a. None of the options you have are good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you're. You're like in a house that's on fire and we're telling you to get out. And you're like, yeah, but I don't have to pay the heating bill. It's great. And we're like, no, no, you're. We have bigger problems to fry. And so I know all of this is uncomfortable. I know that solving one creates another problem over here, but there's better things to solve on the other side. And right now, now you're. We're hitting you with a lot of solutions that aren't amazing. I understand that, but they're better than what you got and so this is an unfortunate reality.

[Caller]

Can I get out of bank of America? I'm finding their fees are just eating everything up. They ate everything in my savings account that I had in there.

[George Camel]

I don't even know if it works.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would have left them for a thousand other reasons. I would switch to a local regional bank of credit union. Today you can check out Fairwinds. They're a trusted partner of ours here in the Ramsey show and they will treat you right without all the junk fees. Wish you the best, Lori.

[Caller]

When you go through a job loss or job change and lose your employer sponsored health insurance, there's no better time to try Christian Healthcare Ministries. That's right. There's another option besides COBRA to take care of your family during that time. Because if you didn't know, the cost of COBRA has gone up a lot in the past few years. And CHM is an affordable, biblically based alternative to health insurance insurance. So do your own research. The CHM is a great option that's potentially a third of the price of cobra. It's a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And the support you get from CHM goes beyond helping you pay for medical bills. Members become part of a family that prays for them when they have a medical event. Try getting that with cobra. So if you're going through a job loss, life change, or just want to explore other options to save on healthcare, CHM might be perfect for you. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So find out [e-mail] budget. That's chministries.org budget.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Amanda's up next in Cincinnati, Ohio. What's going on, Amanda? How can we help today?

[Caller]

All right, I'm just calling to see. I got myself in a little predicament here with my boyfriend who I love. He's amazing. I guess it's just I, I listen to you guys a lot and as far as like, like, you know, when you're not married, nothing is mine that he. So my question is he is buying a body shop where he wants me to be the receptionist, work 40 hours a week. He currently takes care of all the household bills, but I still myself have, you know, a little over $2,000. $2,000. Like groceries, insurance, phone. He wants me to be the receptionist, but I could also go get a different job somewhere and make probably double the amount of money and work less hours.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sounds like he can't afford to hire you.

[Caller]

I kind of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I just sounds like his problem, not yours.

[Caller]

He's helped me out so much, like, financially, and I feel like I kind of owe it to him. But then at the same time, I'm. I'm thinking, like, looking at my future, like, if I go do this for another year, I can't start saving for my retirement. It's just not enough, you know?

[George Camel]

How old are you, Amanda?

[Caller]

I'm 36.

[George Camel]

36. How long have y' all been living together?

[Caller]

I just moved in in May.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so let's play this out. You say no to this job offer because you're overqualified. Whatever. He's going to say, well, then get out of my house and I'm not paying your bills anymore. Anymore. Is that what happens next? Or is it just a guilt trip? After everything I've done for you, Amanda?

[George Camel]

You serious?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah, he's not going to kick me out of here. I just feel really bad. Like, I just don't know if it's a good idea as far as our relationship goes to say, no. I don't want to do this.

[George Camel]

My wife won't read drafts of my books and vice versa. You know why? Because we love each other and we want to stay married.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

Like the. The idea that you. I'm gonna be honest with you. It sounds like the dynamic of your relationship is very one sided. It sounds almost paternal, like you're his kid and.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Does he think he's doing you a favor by offering you a job? Are you working right now?

[Caller]

See, that's the issue, too. I haven't really worked a lot in the past year. My mom passed away and I went through. And I'm finally in the. In, like, in a position now where I can get back and start working again.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But what makes you think you're just going to go find a job tomorrow making double what he's offering?

[George Camel]

He's not offering you anything.

[Caller]

I'm sorry, what'd you say?

[George Camel]

He's not offering you anything, is he? He's telling you just. You're just going to be the receptionist.

[Caller]

He. He's offering me. You know, we haven't went into depth, but he said reception receptionists make about, you know, 15 to $20 an hour.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but he's going to take that off the qu. Bills that you all have at your house.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Camel]

And you know that. And you're gonna have no insurance, you're gonna have no protection, and you're going to end up paying for his business to take off with your squat equity, you're gonna have nothing. And you're not married. So you're playing house to a guy that uses help as a way to control you and you just, you just go along for the ride. And you're complicit in this too, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, I just, I guess I'm. I feel really bad because like I said, like he's helped me out so much financially, paid my rent for me a couple times when I wasn't working and I don't know, I feel obligated to do it, but I guess just calling to see what you guys thought.

[George Camel]

I. Here's the deal. If I was hiring my wife as an employee of a business I was starting, I would make sure we had written something down.

[Caller]

Down? Yeah.

[George Camel]

So that she would know a, when the job was done, how much that job was paying her. Because I'm going to have to write her a 1099 or W2 anyway as an employee. And she would need to be able to say, cuz I treat my wife with dignity and respect and she's an autonomous person and vice versa. She treats me the same way. If she ever wanted to not work there anymore. I would want us to have a clean separation.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Camel]

And so I would not go to work for anybody in any situation without some sort of clear job description and, or a contract. It wouldn't be a right to have a contract in your situation, but like to have a clear job description with a pay amount. And I can, yeah, almost guarantee you you're not going to get that. It's going to be like, no, just come, you answer the phones, we'll take care of it. And you're going to look him in three years and he's going to find somebody else to date and you're going to be out on your own with not nothing.

[Caller]

That's what I'm so worried about. Like I, you know, like I'm not getting any younger. I really need to find something that pays more than. What were you doing before an hour? I'm a bartender.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. What were you making?

[Caller]

I was making about 4 grand a month.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so about 50 grand a year versus 15 to 20 an hour is closer to 40 grand a year. 35.

[Caller]

Yeah. 1. Then I was also working only about 28 hours a week and this would be a 40 hour work week.

[George Camel]

How much do you have saved in your savings account right now?

[Caller]

Well, I have, in my savings account I have about 4,000 and then I also have about 50,000 in an inherited BDA.

[George Camel]

Okay. Do you have any money in retirement in a Roth IRA or something?

[Caller]

No. I do have to take the money out within 10 years from the inherited BDA.

[George Camel]

I need you to hear me say this because I care about you. Okay. You're 36 years old. Do you have any kids?

[Caller]

I have three.

[George Camel]

Okay. They live with you right now? And him.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. You have to hit the gas.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Which means you can't float your bills anymore.

[George Camel]

You got to work two jobs, three jobs for a season because there is a gap. You're behind, if you will.

[Caller]

Very. Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. The only way you're going to get that is not trying to find a job that will make you more so you can work less. You're going to have to maybe take this job, and after you drop your kids off to school in the morning, go drive Uber for a bit, and then after you get home, because it's only paying you 20 bucks an hour, go do another job in the evening for a couple of years. You're gonna have to just hit the gas because you got some catch up to do, right?

[Caller]

Yes. I mean, I do get 2,800amonth for my mom's pension, but unfortunately, I've been having to use that, and it's making me sick using that. I, I.

[George Camel]

You just told it. You told us that that guy's paying all your bills.

[Caller]

He. He is paying most of the bills. I still have about $2,000 worth of bills myself.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What about the extra 800? I'm sorry, what if the pension's 2800 and your expenses are two grand and he's paying the rest of the bills? Where's the extra 800 going every month?

[Caller]

I've had a lot of things to pay for. I spent about seven grand on my teeth. I had to get a will. That was 1800. I got my plot. That was 1600. I. What else? Oh, I had a trip to Spain, but the Spain trip has been going on. That was paid off, but then we had expenses over in Spain.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Amanda, America's losing empathy by the second, right?

[Caller]

I know, I know, I know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

People who are unemployed, broke, three kids don't go to Spain for fun.

[George Camel]

Even if it's paid off.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have any debt?

[George Camel]

They don't buy a hole in the ground.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, there's the saving grace is you don't have any debt. You have 4,000 in savings, and now we have to build a life of our own. I know you've. You've hitched to his wagon in a way. I'm I'm not here to, you know, get on a soapbox about living together before you're married. But you've put yourself in a precarious situation, and you need to build some independence on your own, because right now you're so codependent that it's putting you at risk.

[George Camel]

Let me say it this way. This is going to be an uncomfortable way to say this. If you were moving back in with your dad, and your dad said, you have to do X, Y and Z if you want to live in my house, you have a curfew. And you're like, I'm 37 years old. And he's like, you have a curfew. I'm gonna live in my house. And on Tuesdays, we just eat bowls of cold beans. You could call me and I could say, hey, that sounds nuts. But you chose to live in his house, and so you gotta play by his rules.

[Caller]

Rules. That's how I feel since I. I kind of feel like I don't pay any bills here. I don't feel like it's my house.

[George Camel]

No, you do pay well. You're paying a lot of money.

[Caller]

I pay a lot. As far as the groceries and just everything else to keep a household running.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I was scorekeeping.

[George Camel]

You have to have that conversation with the person you've chosen to move into with. Hey, are you gonna marry me? Are we doing this for the long haul? And B, I don't feel like a participant in this house. I feel like I'm another child of yours, and I'm not going to live like that because I'm worth more than that. And that's where we're going to start with that conversation. If you can't have that conversation, then that's the relationship answer that you need.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So here's the spark notes. Do not take this job because you feel bad. Take it because you need money and you don't have any other options Right now.

[Caller]

Switching banks can be a hassle, and I totally get that. But when Winston and I opened up our Fairwinds account, we were shocked by how quick and easy it was. It just took a few minutes online. We didn't have to block off an entire afternoon or track down paperwork. And the next day, we got a personal call from a Fair Wind specialist just checking in. I couldn't believe it. When I answered my phone and I was talking to them, I was like, y' all are the nicest people. Now, if you're working hard to save money, get out of debt, and build a future, you should have a bank that supports that, not fights it. That's why I recommend Fairwinds. They created these smart checking and savings bundles specifically for Ramsey fans. Plus they have a great app and you have access to over 33,000 fee free ATMs and more than 5,000 shared credit union branches across the country. So you can have access and withdraw your money just like you're used to. No matter where you live, don't settle for a bank that slows down your progress. Make sure you choose one that helps build you up and helps you win with money. Visit Fairwinds.org Ramsey and open your smart bundle today. Fairwinds.org Ramsey Fairwinds.org Ramsey FairWinds is federally.

[George Camel]

Insured by the NCUA.

[Dr. John Deloney]

When you're tackling debt or building wealth, you can often forget about one important step to reaching those goals. Insurance. Having the right coverage, as opposed to too little or too much can impact how long it takes to get there. And skipping or skimping on insurance, it might seem like you're saving, but when life happens, it's easy to fall back into debt. Without a safety net, it puts you at risk in a big way. So the right insurance acts as a around you, your loved ones, your wallet if and when disaster strikes. In some cases, it can even save you money if you're paying too much for insurance or for bogus ones. So how do you know if you have the right one? We make it simple with our Coverage Checkup. It's a free online resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan that is unique to you and your situation. It makes an overly confusing topic easy to understand and gives you clear next steps. So go check out the coverage [e-mail] checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Phoebe is in Jacksonville, Florida. Up next, Phoebe, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. So, well, long story short, my husband is in the military so he is on a fixed income and I work two jobs. We do live on base housing and so we live rent free, no utilities or anything. But he took a major pay cut because of that because that's kind of the catch to it. And so we're struggling with this debt that's been ongoing and it feels like it's just, just getting heavier and heavier. My family believes I should stop working two jobs and burning myself out and just take the free college he offered me because my husband is sweet and gave me his GI Bill so I can pursue my college and just work one Job and deal with the debt later. I believe I should continue to grind out with the two jobs and get our debt gone because I know I can do it. I just kind of don't know what to do. I'm not sure. I just wanted your guys opinion. Wow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much debt do you guys have?

[Caller]

So I have roughly about 30,000, including my car, and his is just two big ones. So 20,000 on a credit card and 20,000 on a car.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Does he need the car if he's on base? Could that be sold?

[Caller]

It could be sold. I think he would be a little bit sad to sell it. And also it was for a long term kind of thing for future reference and trips that we hope to do later down the road.

[George Camel]

Y' all are awesome.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's committed to this car emotionally. He put a ring on it and said, I'm gonna marry this car.

[Caller]

We, we wanted the truck for a reason, you know, because we want to do vacations and Moab and, you know, all these things. But can I be honest, Phoebe?

[Dr. John Deloney]

If I told my wife, you can work three jobs if you want, I'm keeping this car. Versus, hey, if we sell this car, we could knock out like a third of our debt today.

[George Camel]

Today.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That would excite me and give you the freedom and Runway to go to college if you wanted to.

[George Camel]

And if you sold yours and just bought like a Corolla that everyone would be like, why are you driving that? And be like, because I'm free.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. How about halfway we spit, shake and say we're both selling.

[George Camel]

Do what?

[Caller]

My car is almost paid off. I got ten grand.

[George Camel]

Awesome. What's it worth?

[Caller]

Probably like four. Last time I had a Ford Fusion, it didn't value out that well, actually.

[George Camel]

So it didn't value out. And so you were like, you know what? I'm gonna buy another one because I.

[Caller]

Really like the car.

[George Camel]

You're incredible. America. I'd like you to meet itself. It's called America. I like these things, and they're fun, but we can't afford them. You're like, I know, but we want to go to the desert and stuff and whatever.

[Caller]

That's why I don't believe in quitting my two jobs.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What are you making total from these two jobs?

[George Camel]

No. Stop falling in love with depreciating assets. Debt.

[Caller]

50,000 in total.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, you make 50 grand. What does he make?

[Caller]

He makes. So he makes about 4, 500 net income a month.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you make 50k net income per year.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So you'll make a hundred grand together. You have no bills and you can't make it.

[Caller]

The debt is kind of, kind of put a weight on us. Plus with the economy and everything.

[George Camel]

No, you make a hundred grand, you'll have no bills.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You guys are bringing in, bases my estimation, over $8,600 a month net take home pay.

[Caller]

But that is with me working two jobs. If I take away one job, then I only make about 40,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But let's say you keep, are you working 40 hours total?

[Caller]

I work with both jobs about 60 to 70 hours a week.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

Or, sorry. Oh, no. Yeah, that tracks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And you have a total of, based on my math, $70,000 in consumer debt.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And how much are your actual expenses that you guys have to pay every month, including the minimum debt payments?

[Caller]

My expenses roughly come out to, I want to say about three, three grand or so. And then his, I think his comes out to. He has about 1200 left over.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What do you mean?

[Caller]

I have more left. So I know that after all his bills are done, he has 12.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, you guys aren't married for the whole months? You guys like Venmo each other? You just said he's got his bills, he pays. I got my bills, I pay. He has this much left over. I have this much left over. Right.

[Caller]

Because I, I, I like to pay my bills. I'm very OCD about how I pay my bills and everything.

[George Camel]

You're just not OCD about being married?

[Caller]

No, we're on our first year. We've been together for six years, but like, we're on our first year of marriage, so we're, we're working on the colliding of income and everything. But I kind of like my stuff. Stuff.

[George Camel]

Okay, here's the thing. In a way, like, here's the truth, okay? This is just, bottom line, nothing in your life is going to change. And that's okay if that's what you want. The only way you get away from this debt, you go to school, you have peace in your life, you build an amazing marriage together, is you have to begin doing things that make you uncomfortable that you don't want to, to do, period. And the irony is for me and George is we can see every day of your life you're doing things you don't want to be doing.

[Caller]

Right?

[George Camel]

But you can't see it, because I.

[Caller]

Think, I think the end goal is going to be worth it. And I'm scared to take that leap and go to college because what if in a couple years I do all the college and go to find a job and Ends up not paying me much. I, I guess I'm overthinking and I just want certainty. And with paying off my debts, I know that' something I can do. I can put a track on that.

[George Camel]

I, I know, I know, but listen, listen.

[Caller]

I'm falling into it.

[George Camel]

You're like, you're sitting on a solution, and you won't use it. Because here's the thing.

[Caller]

I'm just like my father. He was right.

[George Camel]

It's cool, man. I accept that he must have been a really handsome, quasi handsome, smart guy. But, like, if you all sold your cars and you worked really hard for six months.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Months.

[George Camel]

And y' all did not go out to eat a single time, you would be debt free. I know you see what I'm saying. This. It's so I can't tell you, and I'm getting kind of worked up, and I apologize. It's not at you. It's just that the whole culture we.

[Caller]

Live in, because it's right there.

[George Camel]

It's literally right here. And the number we just. George and I, in a previous hour, talked to a woman on a fixed income who's 72, whose family has abandoned her, and you're sitting on six figures, but y' all don't want to, like, not buy another crappy car that just gets older and dies in your driveway and take advantage of this glitch in the Matrix where you have no bills. None. And you're talking about, you're talking about not even suffering, just having kind of a bummer of a six months where y' all just gonna have to make out more and go fishing more and go walking around more like, that's the, that's the penalty you will pay to not owe anybody anything come Christmas. Christmas in January, you can quit everything and go to college for free. And as a taxpayer, think I am all about paying for veterans and their dependents to go to college. I think that's an amazing use of my tax dollars. I love that, and I want you to do that, but good God Almighty, dude. Go for go for go debt free.

[Caller]

Go with, not basically stop dialing around.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think this college dream is a distraction from having a reality.

[George Camel]

It's a Xanax.

[Caller]

It kind of myself. Y, I, I, I got caught up in the whole, whoa, we have to go enjoy life, so let's not worry too much about the debt. And it just kept going in that cycle.

[George Camel]

And I was like, listen, enjoy. Enjoy it like crazy. Enjoy it like crazy. Just start enjoying it in six months when you don't owe anybody anything. And that, my sister, is the true definition of freedom. Y' all aren't free. Y' all are owned by car companies, by the base, housing, by all these other entities. Just say, as for me and my house, we choose freedom. It's the Fourth of July, for God's sakes. Choose freedom.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It breaks my heart because we love military folks. They're fighting for freedom, and yet they're living in a financial bondage. That's not okay. We got to do better. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. You didn't plan to default on your private student loan, but now you could have a way out. Why Refi helps you explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate and a payment plan based on your ability to pay. So take the next step@why refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[George Camel]

Today's question comes from Amanda in Colorado. Amanda writes, I earn a hundred thousand dollars a year. I have $15,000 in debt and I owe $225,000 on a $550,000 home. My boyfriend lives with me. He earns $70,000 a year and pays me a thousand dollars a month, for which he claims is more than fair. He pays no other bills other than food and some shared grocery items. Items he refuses to help me pay for home upgrades like a new roof and new appliances. How do I resent him for not asking me to marry him after supporting him for almost four years?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow. We could have deleted the entire question and just left the last sentence. How do I not resent him for not asking for me to marry him after supporting him for almost four years?

[George Camel]

Here's the deal, Amanda. I believe that you resent you. He has no reason other than integrity, which he clearly doesn't have in he has no. Why would he marry you? You pay all of his bills. He already lives in your house. He. You do everything.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You fold his laundry.

[George Camel]

You do everything. Is I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so you resent him because you signed up to be his mom. Kind of accidentally, but also intentionally, fully intentionally.

[George Camel]

And when he said it, I'm just going to pay you a thousand bucks. And that's more than fair.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I love that. For which he claims. This feels like an episode of Judge Judy. He claims, why did you not decide ahead of time versus going like, hey, let's take the highest bidder. All right, a thousand bucks. That'll do. You Tell him now. First of all, this is just one of a thousand reasons I would never suggest for people dating to move in together because of issues like this. But you didn't make the guardrails clear. You didn't say, hey, it's going to be 1500 bucks bucks rent if you're gonna live with me. And here's the. You're gonna pay utilities. 50, 50. We're gonna pay whatever. 50, 50. You didn't make that clear.

[George Camel]

Now you're resentful because you thought, hey, if I just let him move in and if I just take care of stuff, he's gonna fall further in love with me and then he'll ask me to marry him. And that's not how he chose to live his life. He was like, man, I got a sweet setup. I can kind of do whatever I want and get away with whatever I want, whenever I want, I want. And so cool, dude. And so, yeah, you've.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, what incentive does he have at this point? It's like, besides character.

[George Camel]

And he doesn't have that. But you knew that when he said, I'm not. I'm not helping here. I'm just going to give you a th000 bucks a month. And you just shut up and you're like, okay, cool, cool, cool. I'll take that. And maybe I'll prove to you. I don't know, dude. It's a mess. But, Amanda, I think the person you're most upset with is the person you see in the mirror. You're smarter than this. This. You're worth way more than this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And, and truthfully, you think you're better than him. You mentioned that you make more than him, that he's not paying his fair share, he's not going to pay for upgrades, which. Why would he pay for upgrades for a home he doesn't own?

[George Camel]

Right in your house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're the landlord. You have to pay for that stuff. That's what you signed up for by asking for rent money. So I. There's both parties are at fault here. If I was Judge Judy, I'd kick you both out of my corner courtroom. I'd have the bailiff escort you out at this point in the show.

[George Camel]

So, Amanda, here's. Here's the scary question that I'll just pose this to you and anybody else in the situation. You can change no things about what have happened up until now. The only question you can solve is what are you going to do now? Are you going to realize this is a person that I don't want to hitch the rest of my life to. And you're going to have a sunk cost fallacy and say, but I've invested four years. I'm worth more than this. This. I'm going to ask you to go. Or you're going to sit down and say, not only is this a financial issue, this is just a, hey, I've asked you to pitch in. And he's like, yeah, I don't really care what you say. Behavior is a language. He's telling you, I don't care what you say. I don't care what your values are. I care what I want. And I'm going to kind of do what I want to do. And you get to ask yourself, do I want to be married to that guy or do I want to have a live in son slash boyfriend like that guy? You get to pick that. Um, but the only question you can solve is, what am I going to do next? And there is no path forward for you that does not come with heartache. Him staying and this arrangement stays the same. Your heart's going to ache. You break up with him, your heart's going to ache. You draw a line and he walks away. Your heart's going to ache. So I want you to take the path that is going to leave you with the most dignity and the most respect for yourself and for others, and is going to get you to eventually where you want, which sounds like a relationship of two people who love and respect each other. And you don't have that right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So it might be a huge blessing that he hasn't proposed because divorce is expensive and you guys made it clear you're not compatible.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I've been doing a ton, a ton of research digging into marriage. Just the question, is it still even worth it? And whatever. So if part of your equation out there is. I bet if I take in a young man and I quote, unquote, support him for four years, financially, romantically, housing and clothing him and feeding him, then maybe he'll like me. That's not. That algorithm won't work. Just. Just FYI, it's not the way. That's not the path to marriage. So is what that is. Do with that. With what? That. What you will, Amanda.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, let's go to the phones. Joshua waits in Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Joshua?

[Caller]

Good afternoon, George and John. It's a beautiful day in Arizona. How are you guys doing?

[George Camel]

Love day.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hear that?

[Caller]

Perfect. Hey, I'll be brief. I'll get to my question first and then I Can provide some context. So I'm looking for some tools and some expertise. My wife and I are behind on some tax debts and are owing about $9,000 towards that. Recently we've gone through the hard thing of downsizing our rental property, moving in with grandparents in order to take care of of some debts that we have. So as far as that breaks down, we have about $20,000 in credit cards, Canadian loans, American student loans, as well.

[Dr. John Deloney]

As this remaining tax debts.

[Caller]

And the federal portion of that is about $8,500. And then the state is about 500, which isn't an issue. And this paycheck coming up. I work in sales and I'm expecting a significant amount of money, around $12,000 on my paycheck. So trying to figure out how to, how to go about that. My wife and I just recently downloaded the every dollar app and created our every dollar budget. But just looking for some expertise and tools around how to settle this tax debt in particular.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, the easiest way to sell it is to pay it off. So with that next check, I'd pay off the tax debt that's going to come first. So all the tax debt is the lowest? Yes. The IRS debt is going to go to the top of any debt snowball list because they can really screw up your life more than any other debt collector. So that's going to go to the top regardless of balance, and that's going to be knocked out with this next paycheck. You're going to have three grand left over. I would apply that to your next smallest balance.

[Caller]

Okay, Is there any way to settle that 8,500 like any expertise or any, you know, approach to take to try to settle that for lower or just write the check, stroke it and be done.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You owe the money. It's the government. They don't play. This is not like a medical bill or like, can you, well, you take 5, 500. This is what you owe in taxes. This is what you have to pay. I would not even go about trying to settle it. I would verify the total, make sure that you're only paying what you're actually, you know, that you owe. But if you owe 9,000, I would write the check for the 9,000 and be done with it.

[Caller]

Okay. No, I. Probably not the answer I wanted to hear, but that's the harsh truth. Right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Well, you're gonna find now like, you're gonna get Facebook ads for like, we'll help you settle your tax debt and just contact us and give us the payment payments and don't trust any company to handle this, you contact the IRS yourself and pay the bill and be done with it. No hacks needed. This is money that you owed. Legally, it's it. There's no way around it. And so I would do that and then continue the debt snowball as you would smallest to largest balance from there. I wish you the best. We're all looking for the hacks, John. I wish there was magic shortcuts and buttons. And if I could just contact that company for that debt settlement relief, they said they'd give me free freedom. It'll solve my problems. And here's the thing. If it sounds too good to be true, it is. And if it looks like a shortcut, I would run far away.

[George Camel]

Most of these shortcuts, yeah, I don't know, dude. They're just so predatory, and they break my heart because we take so many calls. People who just get ripped off, and I hate it for them.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, they're in a. They're in a tough spot. Their backs against the wall. They're desperate, and they see an ad that says the word freedom in it or debt settlement or debt relief. Belief.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

These words are intentional.

[George Camel]

All of these are just math problems, and they just don't go away. And it's. It's just. It's disillusioning right now. I can find myself getting kind of down just across the country. It's like, no, this will just all go away. It's cool, and it just won't. And it's gonna take hard work and heading right into the middle of that problem and everybody getting together and doing it together, but it's a mess, man. There's not. There just is not a hack. It was just a path.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This is the Ramsey Show. Does having more money and less stress sound nice but feel impossible? Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it. You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out, from credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps. So if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get Breaking Free from broke [e-mail] store. That's ramseysolutions.com store.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dr. John Deloney]

From the Ramsey Network. This is the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by Ramsey personality, Dr. John DeLoney. And we're taking your calls at triple eight eight two five five two two five. We're headed to Santa Fe, New Mexico to talk to Claudia. Up next. What's going on? Claudia?

[Caller]

Hi, thank you guys for taking my call.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure.

[Caller]

I've been hearing on social media and I want to know what Dave and you all know about cryptocurrency replacing the US dollar. I know it seems far fetched, but it's just. Just seems like it's huge.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I mean, you heard it from a credible source social media. Who are we to refute that?

[George Camel]

I saw a guy on social media the other day. He was swimming in the ocean and he kissed a shark. It was am amazing. Right on the face.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Definitely not AI.

[George Camel]

No, not AI at all.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We're having fun. But where exactly did you hear this? Like what caused the algorithm to bless you with this fear mongering content?

[Caller]

Well, I think it's because we started doing investments. And you know how the algorithm says, okay, so then it starts to say whatever lead you to this direction of well, you can invest here. And we know it's an investment. I don't know anything about, about how economics works or I do know through prager that the money that our US dollar really isn't backed by anything. It used to be backed by gold and now it's a note.

[George Camel]

Okay, but listen to this along that same line. That is correct. The, the what backs the, the dollar is that the whole world has said, we trust that the United States will pay their bills. Right? That's what makes the debt ceiling thing so complicated. The thing that makes the world spin is the US will pay their bill bills. Right? But if you take that away before that, the whole world said, hey, this yellow rock is worth everything.

[Caller]

Right?

[George Camel]

There's not that yellow rock does nothing. You can't eat it, you can't plant it, you can't raise it, you can't hug it. It's just a yellow rock that we all said, all right, that's going to be a thing. And so could the whole world, the whole world get together and be like, you know what? We're gonna let a bunch of zeros and ones from some kids in San Francisco or Dubai or wherever in the across the world somewhere. We're just gonna trust them? We'll trust them. Does that sound right?

[Caller]

Well, it's all on trust.

[George Camel]

That's it. That's it. And as gruy a system as we have, and as messy as things are, most of the world's like, dude, I'll put my money up on them. Which why. It's why I think you're hearing such passionate debate right now about the US signing bills that are going to add trillions of more dollars to the debt. Like, there's American citizens that are like, hey, we got a good thing going. It's not perfect and it's a mess, but we got a good thing going. And we're, we're going to shoot holes in our own boat because we didn't have the courage to make hard choices.

[Caller]

Right? Right.

[George Camel]

And so it's, it's. Let me put, Let me put it this way in George. This is how my buddy who's a banker told me this. This. The day the US dollar seeks to be the world's currency, that will be such a disruptive force that we can't imagine our lives the day after that. And so he called it a meteorite plan. Like, I have a lot of plans. I have a deep freezer with some meat in. Like, I'm that guy, right? I got big gardens, whatever. But I don't have a meteorite plan. If we get hit by meteorite, I'll deal with that then. But me buying a bunch of crypto though, is not going to be my hedge against the US dollar. And pod. It's just not. And take that for what you will. It's free advice, so it might be worth what you paid for it in five years if the US dollar goes away and the crypto bros are worth trillions. You can call and be like, you idiot. And I'll be like, yeah, you're right, I screwed up on that one. But I. It all comes down to trust, right?

[Caller]

And I think that's what Bitcoin is too. It's all based on trust. Because I've just been researching it and basically that's the same thing. It's just on trust.

[George Camel]

But let me, let me push back crack on you from my nerd world. Research is sitting down and doing science experiments and having it peer reviewed so other people have done experiments. Push back on my findings. Etc, if you're just googling stuff or youtubing stuff or chat gpting stuff or looking on Instagram, it's not research. It's learning what you want. And it's giving you an increasingly more sensational version of what you're looking for for one reason. Reason not to give you facts, but to keep you hooked on that device.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And guess what gets clicks and views. It's the dollar is going to crash. Everyone buy crypto, not the dollar's fine.

[George Camel]

America's annoying, right? Now and we're fighting ourselves and we are causing ourselves immeasurable damage for no reason. But it's not going away. We're here right now.

[Caller]

So I have a question to that Research. So that's what we do. That's what we've been trained to do. Okay? Just go online and search it. So how do you research workshop?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, there's books, there's people who have done more scholarly work on this, but again, they're going to have a very biased take that says, I'm going to put all my money into crypto and you should too.

[George Camel]

Can I tell you, can I tell you what I do? This is my personal thing. I've. And this is, this is me working with academics for 20 years, like really some world class scientists, okay? And even some of my close buddies in the nutrition space, the weightlifting space, the mental health space. I do not ask the question, what do you think? I don't ask that to George. I don't ask that to my friend Dave Ramsey. I don't ask the question, hey, what do you think about? I simply ask this question, what do you do with. I don't say like, hey, what do you think about this thing? Like, I ask, what do you do with your kid? What do you do with your money? And what I can tell you is Dave Ramsey, the wealthiest guy I personally know, owns 0 cents in crypto. My friend George Camel, who I call on the weekends and say, hey man, I'm, I need to ask a question about this mutual fund, whatever. And George owns zero crypto and he's got two young kids like me. And so you're calling two guys who own $0 in crypto.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I also don't have any gold. I just don't buy things that are a store of value, quote unquote or a currency. All I do is invest into the US stock market and a little bit of international like we've been teaching for years. And that's all you need. Anything more complicated than that is just a trap to try to get you into someone else's maze.

[George Camel]

My friend Lane Norton, Dr. Norton says most people step over a hundred dollar bills to pick up nickels when it comes to health and weight loss and nutrition. People want to know what the best hack is instead of just exercising and eating right. It's so the shortcut. I wouldn't even be researching what you're researching until I don't owe anybody any money. I, I've got my, my house paid off, so nobody can take my house from me, right? And then I'll start getting like, okay, what's the. But until you've solved those problems, it's, it's, it's, it's just stepping over the next annoying, boring next right step for some sensational things thing. And so I would go sit with a smart vest pro. And I'll tell you what, I asked mine, he started talking about, hey, you can. I said, I'm just going to stop you right there. Whatever you did for your family when through like these four, I want that for mine. And he smiled at me and he goes, all right, cool. Because I, because that's, that's what's going to tell me what you believe is your actions, right? Same questions I asked George.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you, how much are you investing every month right now, Claudia?

[Caller]

Well, it's interesting because I don't think we're none.

[George Camel]

Hey, get off the apps. You're making yourself nuts for no reason. Just get off. Find some puppy videos, get two dogs and wipe their butts. Just like George.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you.

[George Camel]

Look how happy he is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's a good life. It's a life well spent. So here's the key. Replacing the US Dollar with crypto would require a complete overhaul of the global financial system. We can't agree on anything across the world right now, let alone that nothing, no things, too much volatility. With crypto. It's unregulated. It's a private digital currency. It's decentralized. There's too many problems with it. Still, while it has cool technology and features, I'm not going to hang my hat that the dollar is going to crash anytime soon. Unless I wanted some YouTube click. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we will would find what you [e-mail] insurance. Amy's in Tampa, Florida. Up next, Amy, welcome to the show. Did I get that right or is it ami?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's Amy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. First try. Okay. How's it going?

[Caller]

Good. How are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Great. What's your question today?

[Caller]

So I financed a used car and I got an extended warranty with it. And now recently the engine blew up and so basically I have no car and I'm stuck with this like it's a $30,000 loan still with this car?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, my gosh.

[George Camel]

You got the extended warranty. Does it not cover exploding engines?

[Caller]

No, I guess not. No, they're trying. They're kind of like trying to get out of it, I guess. Basically they want me to do like, they want me to pay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Who's there?

[Caller]

The mechanic. So it's not a mechanic shop right now. And they want me to pay for the tear down for it.

[George Camel]

Who does?

[Caller]

Like, exactly. What's wrong? The warranty company.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The warranty company wants you to pay for them to tear apart the car to figure out what. What went wrong?

[Caller]

Well, no, the. The mechanic wants me to pay first.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then maybe they'll reimburse you.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And then maybe the warranty will cover it. Maybe they won't. So.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yikes. Okay, what's the car. What was the car worth before this issue?

[Caller]

Probably about 18,000. And then I bought the extended warranties and then out the door it came to 30. So what?

[George Camel]

Whoa. What?

[Caller]

Yeah. So now it's only worth 13,000.

[George Camel]

Now how is it worth 18? You bought it for 18. You bought $12,000 worth of extended warranties?

[Caller]

Well, it was 6,000 and then I guess some fees got out and I don't know how it got up to 30.

[George Camel]

You bought a $6,000 extended warranty?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And they just added 6,000 more in fees. I'm confused. I'm not convinced that you're. I feel like you're smarter than this.

[Caller]

Yeah, it was a really dumb thing. I don't, I don't know if I.

[George Camel]

Bought a $6,000 warranty. They're paying for everything. They're paying for my toothpaste that morning that I used to brush my teeth. They're paying for everything. What. What could possibly be the hold up? Because you must have bought the Cadillac Lexus Atomic diamond platinum warranty, because think about that. You bought a warranty that's one third the value of your car.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So what are they, how are they protesting any sort of service?

[Caller]

I don't, I don't know. And then I've messaged the warranty company. So it was at a shop before this shop prior, because I had issues with the overheating. So they replaced the water pump on it. And then two days later I was driving down the road and it started overheating again. And then, and then it just wouldn't turn on. So I towed it back to that shop and they said, oh, it's nothing that we did.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How long ago did you buy this car?

[Caller]

In February.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, and where did you buy it from like, was it a dealership?

[Caller]

It was, it was a place in Tampa. It was a Discovery Auto. It was a dealership.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have you went back to them like.

[Caller]

A big known deal? Yeah, I did send me a form that I, that I signed that basically says I bought it as is. So.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but if they sold you the warranty, there's got to be some re. Here's the thing also, I'm not mess.

[Caller]

Disclose like that there was anything wrong with the car at all.

[George Camel]

No, no, no, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying if you bought that warranty through that dealer, then there may be some liability on their part that they're pushing a bad product on you. Yeah, and here's the second thing. I'm not messaging anybody. I'm calling everyone. I'm going to find a buddy who's a lawyer that's going to write me a letter. I'm calling everybody body I know I'm not messaging anything.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This job, whenever I'm not working my full time job, I'm working on this and fighting it. I'm going through the fine print. I'm working with an attorney. I'm showing up in person every day until they know me by name.

[George Camel]

Okay, how do you own a house?

[Caller]

No.

[George Camel]

Okay, I'm making up a number here but if you have a $500,000 house house, depending on where you live, obviously your homeowner's insurance is going to be five or ten thousand dollars a year. You've paid six thousand dollars for a warranty against an eighteen thousand dollar car. At that ratio that would be like buying a warranty for a half a million dollar house that cost $175,000. So what you paid is so out of whack proportionally and you should be.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Able to get your money back for the warranty at least.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's what my next step was going to be. I just wanted to figure out if I should still continue to like try to get it covered by warranty. Yes, but you've got, but I have to pay up front for the, for the whole teardown of the engine and everything and so, so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That is insane. I, I've never heard where you have to pay and then maybe the, the warranty company will reimburse you later and.

[George Camel]

Amy, I'm confused by your lack of just going to war over this.

[Caller]

I don't have the money, I don't.

[George Camel]

Know anything to do that, to get a, a ruler out and go line by line down this warranty. That you have.

[Caller]

Oh, and I. With the highlight, I've been. I've been emailing the warranty company. I've been going through it and everything like that, and I've reached out to like, the Better Business Bureau and all that.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have any money right now?

[Caller]

No, not really.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What do you make?

[Caller]

I have a few hundred saved up. I make. Hourly or salary?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Salary.

[Caller]

Salary. I make about 49,000 a year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, and what other debts do you have outside of this 30,000 car loan?

[Caller]

I have a $8,000 personal loan, 700 loan, and then I have a couple of credit cards for 200, and then three for 500 and then one for 300, and then I have another car loan for 13,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What. What happened to that car?

[Caller]

That car I gave to my mom.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you're still making the payments on it?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why is she not paying the payments?

[Caller]

She doesn't have a job right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So this runs in the family. Okay.

[George Camel]

Can you sell that car immediately?

[Dr. John Deloney]

The other car, what's it worth? The one your mom's driving?

[Caller]

It's not worth what it. What I owe on it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have you rolled a lot of negative equity into these?

[Caller]

That car? No, but that car I bought for, I think more than it was worth as well. So it. And it's only 2% interest on that car, so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, at least there's the good News. We have 2%. Interesting interest. Oh, Amy, we need a. We need to change everything. I'm getting hosed at every single dealership you go to.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's the interest rate on the thirty thousand dollar loan?

[Caller]

7%.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And did you roll negative equity into that one?

[Caller]

That one? No, I didn't. So I was just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Here's the deal. You're underwater on this car, obviously, and right now it's to the tune of $30,000 because I don't know if this car is worth anything. And so your best bet is to try to get it fixed up so that you can sell it, because your other option is, you know, trading it in or selling it for parts at this point, if it's kaput, and that's going to put you in a giant hole to where you're upside down by, you know, $28,000 if you get rid of for 2,000. And so getting the warranty refunded if they're not going to come through and fix anything is one at least step. But you're going to need the difference in a personal loan in order just to get out of this payment. And then you still Need a car to drive.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In which case I would rather take your other car back that you owe 13 on cuz at least you're less in debt in that and mom needs to figure it out.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you're going to have to make a lot of hard choices and fight really hard probably for the next few months to battle this thing out. And in the meantime, how are you. What transportation do you have.

[Caller]

Right now? We have a car that I use from work. Who's we use for customers? I've been borrowing it from my.

[Dr. John Deloney]

From your employer.

[Caller]

So we have like a crew car. Yeah. That customers will use. So I work at a air airplane maintenance shop and so they'll drop their plane off and then sometimes take the car to lunch and stuff. So I've been borrowing that car.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are there any folks over there who know cars pretty well who can help you navigate this mechanic situation?

[Caller]

Sure. They know most honestly about planes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I mean.

[Caller]

Or is it. I'm not sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I feel like they're. They're cut from the same cloth. They've got to know what an engine looks like to be dealing with this. So I would be begging folks from work to say hey, can you help me with this? I'm struggling. I want to make sure I don't get hosed once again. But the key is you got to come up with a difference just to get rid of the car loan and to do that you're probably going to need to fix it up and that's going to mean saving up and when you can and covering the difference in cabin cash or with a person alone. I don't know of another way out of this right now unless you just sell mom's car and try to cover it. But you're way underwater on that too. We're out of options here. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home. Scared doesn't even begin to cover it. But I got mad enough to change. I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money. That journey became the total money makeover. A plan everyday people can use to take control of their money. Millions have changed their lives following the plan in the this book and found hope. Start your makeover [e-mail] store. Buying or selling your home is a big deal and you need an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best, best deal for the right price. The Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust. Who will help make your home a blessing, not a burden. It's super easy. You compare agent profiles, interview them, and then choose the one that you want to work with. You can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for [e-mail] agent or click the link in the description. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast, Carolina is up next in Burlington, Vermont. What's going on, Carl?

[Caller]

Carolina, hi. Thank you for taking my call. I just wanted to say first that I love you, Dr. Jellini. You're just such a blessing to so many people.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And yeah, I retweet that statement.

[George Camel]

Thank you. I wish you would tell my friend George Campbell that because he's mean to me off air. But thank you, I accept.

[Caller]

And then my question was, how do I budget for a regular, regular expenses, including things like kids growing up. I'm, you know, we're debt free, but we seem to be spending every single bit of our money every month. And it's.

[George Camel]

What do you mean? What do you mean, budget for kids growing up? That's like a thing they all do.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean like my, you know, I have my, my baby just turned one and, you know, she's eating more food. My, my seven year old is like, just eating like a teenager.

[George Camel]

My 15 year old, he ate an entire horse the other day. It's the horse that George told that poor woman to sell one time. My son just ate the whole thing. Like, they'll eat everything.

[Caller]

I just don't know how to budget for things like that or like heating in Vermont is a big, you know, big part of living here. And it seems like it's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How long have you lived there?

[Caller]

My husband's been lived here all his life, but I've lived here eight years and we've been married eight years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you guys know, and you can go look at your, your bill for the last year and go, oh, look at that. It spikes in the wintertime. We pay more for heat in December than we do in July.

[George Camel]

No way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so you'll be able to kind of find those trends and then you'll adjust the budget as the month goes on. And so the, the key. Have you done a budget formally yet or is this just sort of like, like, how do I prepare for these expenses?

[Caller]

No, we have done budgets before, but like, okay, another one would be the, the car, the van is just hitting 100,000 miles. And so last time I went to get it, service break, oil change, they said, oh, you know, you need to do this maintenance. And this Other thing, and those are things are not, I didn't budget for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so you're going to. This is going to change your life when it comes to budgeting. And it's called sinking funds. And so for things that are necessary in your life ongoing that you know you're going to need to cover at some point, you just set up a sinking fund. So there's going to be a line item in your every dollar budget that says car maintenance and repair. And every single month you're going to put $100 into that account so that over the course of the year you will have saved up $1,200. So when there's the oil change or the little repair, you're going to have the money sitting there ready to go cover it. So that's going to help you cover those longer term expenses that are coming up over the year. Maybe it's an insurance bill that you pay yearly. Just divide it by 12 and then put that amount in a line item in the budget. I think the key is you're not actually adding any of these line items to the budget, but then you're surprised when they pop up. So for the kids, maybe we need to have a new line item for kids clothing. If they're moving through clothes really fast as they grow, let's have kids clothing in the line item in the budget for 50 bucks. Bucks a month. Whatever you guys decide.

[Caller]

Okay, what about like what is would be for a family of six? What's a good food budget?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I wish I could tell you that. It's so dependent on are there dietary needs in the family? Where, where are you guys shopping currently? I know like we. I love Aldi. That's where I go for the grocery shopping because it keeps the bills low. I have no clue what a family of six should be spending. You can check. They have the government, you know, lists of, here's how much, you know, people have spent that are in your shoes, but that's really dependent on you. The key is how do we get it lower than it was last month and keeping it in check. So don't make it outrageous. Don't decide, well, I'm going to spend 300 bucks for six people for the month. That's not reasonable. So make it realistic and put a number out there. You can see what you've been spending and then go, hey, we've been out of control here. We've been spending 1500 bucks bucks a month. Let's tighten this down to a thousand bucks a month or 1100 bucks a month to cover us.

[George Camel]

But I also. And maybe you didn't say this, and maybe I'm just, just tired today, but I don't want you blaming a one year old for their appetite increasing.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

Or their seven year old for beginning to eat more and more. That's just what kids do. And it's amazing and awesome.

[Caller]

No, no, no, no, no. Not at all. I just, I'm just overwhelmed. Overwhelmed with just the food cost and, and all of these things that seem to like, have to have a line in the budget. And then it. Sometimes it just feels like we, we don't even have enough money for what is budgeted.

[George Camel]

Sure. Yeah, it's. It. Some of that is a frustrating, annoying, like really heartbreaking amount of discipline at a grocery store store. Like I can only buy these things with these coupons. Especially nowadays groceries are still so expensive. Like I can only buy this much stuff. Mom, can we. We just can't. Come on. M. And every parent wants to be able to get their kid that $2 thing. And we literally don't have that margin right this second. And it's being intentional, as George said, It's planning out expenses before we get there. Right. But it's, it's a pain and it's not fun, but it shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what helps is we do a monthly budget meeting and then we have a little weekly check in. Hey, what's coming up in the week ahead? Are line items still accurate? Do we need to tweak anything? Delete something, add something? And that can make it much more palatable to realize that you're in control and that life isn't just happening to you, even if it's something annoying to pay for. We have a miscellaneous line item that just is a little catch all for the little surprises, you know, 50 bucks a month, that's the catch all. I wasn't expecting that $6 charge charge here. Now we have a place for it. And that way you're sort of planning for the unplanned.

[George Camel]

George has a line item for $175 for extra hair care that's on top of his haircut.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I do. Well, here's the thing. I spend more on my dogs than I do my own child at this point.

[George Camel]

That's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's out of control.

[George Camel]

It's. But you know what, Shane? It's a blight mark on America that he does that. But 100%.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have you guys used every dollar before Carolina?

[Caller]

Oh, yes. And we're eating at our savings and that was I guess my next question, question was how do I, how do I know at which point we have like an income problem?

[George Camel]

You have one right now. If you're living off your savings, you have an income problem.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you're debt free and you have no margin and you're living off savings, it's for sure an income problem and an expense problem at the same time because you can always make more, but then you'll just spend more if you don't solve the other side of the equation. So I think you and your husband sit down tonight with every dollar and make it realistic and put go back in the bank statement and go, hey, how did we miss anything? What do we need line items for? And then actually meet up once a week, track the transactions and see if you feel a little more in control and a little less chaotic as the month happens.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have, you used every dollar premium before that connects to your bank account?

[Caller]

I. No, we've used the, the app premium.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, well I'm going to gift it to you today to help you guys win on this journey. It's going to connect to your bank. There's a new experience in there that will help you with recommendations and I think that's the more you use it, the more comfortable you're going to be with all these ups and downs. And the kids are eating more and if they're eating more, up it a little bit each month until you find your baseline. You figure out what works for you guys. What, what are you guys making a month?

[Caller]

So my husband makes like 4,000amonth take home and, and then we, we have a renter. But that, that pretty much pays off our mortgage, most of our mortgage.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

I'm a stay at home. I, we homeschool.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So 4,000amonth is what you have coming in and the renter helps cover some expenses. And what are your monthly expenses as you've been doing this budget?

[Caller]

Well, I, our, our rent. Well, not a rent. I guess the leftover mortgage is about a thousand thousand and then food kind of varies but it can be, you know, 400 or better. And we don't have any like car payments.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. It sounds like you don't know the total expenses, which tells me it's probably been a while since we've really dialed in this budget. So that's your homework. Figure out exactly what your expenses are going to be for the month of July. Today is July.

[George Camel]

July.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's the start of July. Let's figure this out and dial this in. It might take 90 days to get used to it, to get all the pieces dialed in. But you're going to feel so much better when it's done and not go into a frenzy every time the kid needs a little more milk. I hope that helps. This is The Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

SA.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Our Scripture of the Day. Proverbs 9, 9. Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still. Teach the righteous and they will add to their learning. Jimi Hendrix said, knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens. Dan joins us up next in Minneapolis. What's going on? What's going on, Dan?

[Caller]

Hey gentlemen, how you doing today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Great, how are you?

[Caller]

Great. Say, I have a 19 year old son who is going to be entering his second year in college here. We've always pushed for living the debt free lifestyle. He has about $50,000 saved up in his savings account for college expenses. Year one, he's already paid his way through. He's going to a South Dakota State University which is a fairly reasonable school. And with his scholarships that he's been awarded, we're kind of anticipating maybe $10,000 a year out of pocket expenses for him.

[George Camel]

Amazing.

[Caller]

What we're getting at is he actually threw a question at me the other night that I wasn't really anticipating. And he says, dad, what about, what about this thought? He goes, what if I take out a student loan? Which I'm not familiar with how all the student loans work and whatnot, but he says, you know, I'm not going to get any interest tacked on until the end. He says, what if I invest my money in some sort of a Roth account, gain some interest in the next four years. He's, he's on a five year plan to get his master's degree as a structural engineer. And he says what if we try to gain some interest on that money and then pay it off as a lump sum when I get out of school? School. What do you think about that?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh boy. Well, I think your debt free plan is out the window, number one. And I think we've then trained him to use a word that I think is a cancer amongst young men in society, which is arbitrage. That's what he's doing here, bro. It's all about arbitrage. I can make more in the market. Why would I pay down my low interest debt? That's the path he's going down. And it will then spiral. This will be a gateway drug into, into more risk in his life that he thinks he can manage. And there's, he's assuming that this money's going to grow if he invests it in this period of time, in four years. Right.

[Caller]

And we've had that conversation, you know, and I've shown him some losses with, you know, just the latest stock market decline that we had here.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. While he's in school, he's going to be checking that investment account, going, oh, gosh, it was 50, now it's 43. I'm going to pull all my money out of the market. That's what's going to happen. And he can't invest in a Roth account. That, that would be a retirement account at that point.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In which case there would be penalties if he withdrew money beyond his contributions. Now, if you left it in a taxable brokerage account, he would be taxed on the gains of that money. And maybe he makes a little bit, maybe he doesn't. But I, I liked to avoid all the variables when I get can and one way to avoid all these variables and to go, hey, man, it's not worth the juice, ain't worth the squeeze to potentially make a thousand bucks or 4,000 bucks. I would just pay my way through, graduate debt free and not have to worry about what life looks like four years from now. What happens if he doesn't graduate and he's still on the hook but doesn't have the degree with the job on the other side?

[Caller]

Yeah, there's a lot of things that could twist into that and make it bad for him. And right now he's doing very good. It's keeping him on track, you know, knows, you know, annually. What about what it's going to cost him? He knows how much he needs to work in the summertime along with taking some summer courses. He's really going down an excellent path right now. So I didn't want to deter it, but I wanted to. I wanted to call in and get another opinion and just tell him that he does think a lot of the Ramsey program. They taught it to him in high school as an elective. And so he's, he's been a believer. So can I just. I just needed that other voice. Just maybe feel the deal.

[George Camel]

Well, I think more than me and George, can I tell you a voice that he really needs right now is yours. And there's something powerful about saying, hey, like, that's a. You asked me a phenomenal question. And I actually had to go get some other wisdom on it because I hadn't thought it all the way through. Well done, dude. And your rising sophomore son's chest will puff out about six inches because he Got a great I'm proud of you compliment from his old man and a hey, you stumped your dad, man. That's an excellent. Like, I can tell you're really thinking this stuff through. And I want to tell you a story or two from my personal life where I thought I had it all figured out, and then I didn't understand what I didn't understand. And that's called wisdom. And life came at me. And man, I. I want to. I want to let you know you're an engineer, mind, you're a brilliant young man, and life doesn't play out on a spring spreadsheet. And if you can give him one or two stories from your life that you had it all mapped out and then it went sideways in my life, I would have about 10,000 of those stories because I always have a plan and a scheme and it never works out right. Then you'll find a closer relationship with your son. You'll model for your son how to go, wow, I learned something new. I was challenged. And you'll give him a great gift with which. Is any dad looking at their son saying, I'm proud of you? That's a great question. So you see what I'm saying, like your voice right now matters a lot.

[Caller]

And I appreciate that. But. And at the same time, that second opinion also matters. So.

[George Camel]

It does. It does appreciate that.

[Caller]

What do you have for advice on anything other than like a high yield savings account, which we're in now, which is I think just below 4% where his money's sitting.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's exactly where I remind is. Yeah, that's where I keep my money that's not in checking.

[George Camel]

During the last break, I just moved some to a high. My high yield savings account. So I. I mean, okay, I just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

These rates are still historically high. I'm still shooketh that we are sitting.

[George Camel]

At three and a half King James. That's how when I was saving up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

For a house, I remember it was 2% in a high yield savings account, and I was losing my mind. I was like, the banks are losing money on me. How are they giving us 2%? And so perspective helps. And the other thing that helps them realize is that when you pay in full for that next semester, you're gonna show up to class, you're gonna pay attention, you're not gonna flunk out. And when it's someone else's monopoly money that maybe I pay back later, maybe there's a forgiveness program someone dangles when the next election comes up, or it's.

[George Camel]

This here's what's gonna happen, dude, My dad's got a, like a 20.20F150. He's like trying to sell for cheap. What? Like, he's selling it for cheap, man. And he's gonna have $50,000 in an account and he's gonna call you and say, dad, I can get a truck that's worth 40 grand for like 20 right now. That's how that's gonna happen. And I only know this because I worked at the college students, even great ones, for 20 years and all of them act like college students, even the great ones. Right. It's just. Yeah, I mean, this is just a pretty amazing moment. And I wanna. I wanna also credit you. You, my son right now, he's 15. He thinks I'm the dumbest person who's ever lived. So you are right. A second, a second opinion does matter.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I've always said Hank's a genius.

[George Camel]

Yeah, he's pretty sharp. And he's like, dad, I don't think you're that good at what you do. But. But anyway. But like, yeah, getting a second opinion is awesome. But, man, telling a personal story and kind of mapping it out, that's awesome.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's a piece of this, Dan, and you've believed this principle for a while now, is that there is. It's a better life to just believe in the principle that owing people money is a bad thing, regardless of the interest rate, regardless of the spread or the arbitrage. And so my fear is that he does this and then he gets out of college and goes, dude, the dealership gave me 0% APR on a new car. Why would I not take that? Leave the money in savings. I'm a genius. I'm going to be a TikTok star talking about this stuff. And that is what I think is causing a lot of people to get trapped in the maze of the lending world, which is what they want. They want to lure you in with all the low interest rate. And now it's actually smarter. And every financial advisor would tell you, hey, hey, no, leave your money invested. You shouldn't pay cash for things, just leverage as much as you can. And so I think there's a principle to it where you just decide early on that you're never going to touch debt. You're going to be unbelievably wealthy and focused instead of losing sleep over the next arbitrage scheme. And so I hope this gets to him. I would encourage him to read my book, Breaking Free From Broke. I'll send it to you if you can get it over to him or if he prefer the audiobook, we'll get that over to to you. I have a whole chapter about student loans that I think will set him free of this and cause him to go oh my gosh, why would I touch Deb if I don't have to? And I you guys have done such a great job. It makes no sense to go backwards now. So way to go. Dad of the year right here.

[George Camel]

And kid of the year man. Son of the year I love 19.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Year old with 50 grand in savings.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Young men and women that work really hard and ask hard questions and of a lot love students who are young young people who are like wait a minute, what if. That's all good questions. It's all great.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Y his critical thinking skills are working. It's just with. With a wrong motive underneath it all that I'm worried will add more risk and stress to his life. He's already got a lot going on. A 19 year old is having an existential crisis every day.

[George Camel]

An engineering major. Engineering majors don't have many. It's essential. Not like the young poetry skater skater boy said. See a litter boy like you were the artist.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The troubled soldier souls we are. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Thank you to Dr. John DeLoney, the whole crew in the booth keeping the show afloat and you America will be back before you know it.